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Aerilon
November 21st, 2007, 10:10 AM
Heals people.... The question is, can it become a cure to the virus, or can the blood of those who can regenerate become infected itself? I know there is talk of this case all over the board, but that is interlinked with other topics. I felt the need to create a thread specifically for it.

My other thought... If Claire's blood regenerated Noah, then could the same not be done for Kanto, DL and everyone else who has died. I would add in others such as Issac and such, but I'm not sure if people are able to regenerate without a Brain.

It has been mentioned throughout the forums that it is all about the Brain, whilst I question this (as it is obviously Noah's new blood that has healed him, and not his brain), I do wonder whether people who Sylar has killed could in theory return?


PS: In regards to the 'They can't regenerate without a Brain'. If it is just the Blood, then it would interact with the DNA, and would 'create' a new Brain for those that have had perminant damage to it, or, who have had their Brain removed / eaten (what Sylar actually does with them I don't know).

Also, when Hiro 'kills' Adam in the past, with all that gunpower in the tent, if that actually happened, then chances are Adam would have exploded along with the tent and all inside. That being the case, his body, his head, and his brain would have exploded too... yet, he is still walking around...

Explain that one chaps ;)

Ace
November 21st, 2007, 10:16 AM
Heals people.... The question is, can it become a cure to the virus, or can the blood of those who can regenerate become infected itself? I know there is talk of this case all over the board, but that is interlinked with other topics. I felt the need to create a thread specifically for it.

My other thought... If Claire's blood regenerated Noah, then could the same not be done for Kanto, DL and everyone else who has died. I would add in others such as Issac and such, but I'm not sure if people are able to regenerate without a Brain.

It has been mentioned throughout the forums that it is all about the Brain, whilst I question this (as it is obviously Noah's new blood that has healed him, and not his brain), I do wonder whether people who Sylar has killed could in theory return?

Yeah I don't think that people could be brought back without a brain. I mean we saw in Lizards that it can regrow a limb much as some reptiles can do. But I'm pretty sure that if you remove the head or brain that lizard/person ain't coming back.

Love to hear from somebody that disagrees with me though...

Ace

Aerilon
November 21st, 2007, 10:26 AM
That brings me back to Adam. The tent he was in literally blew up (along with him). No doubt that explosion would have screwed up his brain (if there was anything left of it), yet he is alive and well...

Excluding Adam for the moment though, what about the others? Those who have died with their Brain in tact? Chances we'll be seeing them again...?

Ace
November 21st, 2007, 10:48 AM
That brings me back to Adam. The tent he was in literally blew up (along with him). No doubt that explosion would have screwed up his brain (if there was anything left of it), yet he is alive and well...

Excluding Adam for the moment though, what about the others? Those who have died with their Brain in tact? Chances we'll be seeing them again...?

You bring up a good point...especially when you bring Peter into the mix. He went off in a nuclear explosion that would have surely torn every piece of him into well... lots of little pieces. So how did he survive?

I'm not sure... could be a plot hole or it could really be that those with regeneration powers can not die. I'm not sure I like that explanation though as Adam himself thought it was possible when he asked Hiro if he was going to be done with it and cut off his head.

As for the others perhaps there is a time limit to which they can be brought back... such as before all of their hair and skin stop growing and they become a skeleton. So I would say DL, Issac and such are all dead. However if somebody was killed recently they could be revived.

As for the Peter and Adam thing...I'm not sure I'm going to have to go and think about that one. I'm pretty sure though that Adam still had his head attached when the explosion occurred. That was his corpse next to the helmet when Hiro went back to the tent correct?

If so he was extra crispy, but had everything attached. However Peter certainly wouldn't have... so I'm not sure now.

Ace

The Prophet
November 21st, 2007, 03:54 PM
Well, apparantly the brain can heal itself with regenerative powers, to what extent though. If a minute portion of Isaac's/ etc Brain remained, and they poured/ injected it/ etc with Claire's/Adam's Blood, could it regenerate into a fully formed Isaac?

Although, would it be a fully formed Isaac? Or a clone of him? :O
Ship of Theseus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus)

And, if Someone had a Lobotomy, could their removed portion be regenerated to form a new "clone".

*Pictures and Army of Claires/Adams running loose*

Ace
November 21st, 2007, 04:34 PM
Well, apparantly the brain can heal itself with regenerative powers, to what extent though. If a minute portion of Isaac's/ etc Brain remained, and they poured/ injected it/ etc with Claire's/Adam's Blood, could it regenerate into a fully formed Isaac?

Although, would it be a fully formed Isaac? Or a clone of him? :O
Ship of Theseus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus)

And, if Someone had a Lobotomy, could their removed portion be regenerated to form a new "clone".

*Pictures and Army of Claires/Adams running loose*

Yeah... that's why I don't like the idea. I'd keep the idea that if enough of the brain is damaged and/or removed from the skull the person is dead permanently

Ace

Archaeis
November 21st, 2007, 05:06 PM
I don't like this twist on the story. The healing power is supposed to be a genetic trait of that individual. So Adam, Claire, Peter healing themselves is good and all (LInderman is a different story). BUt injecting the blood into someone else and suddenly they gain the benefits of this genetic trait? That is essentially the equivalent of someone all of a sudden growing a big nose because they got a blood transfusion from someone with one.

Hypochondriac
November 21st, 2007, 06:02 PM
Maybe the blood contains a ton of stem cells? Thats how it heals others? I don't belive the blood will cure the virus. As for brain damage if it's still there it could heal it. If portions are removed I doubt it. Even If it did regrow the memories will be lost

jds1982
November 21st, 2007, 07:00 PM
You bring up a good point...especially when you bring Peter into the mix. He went off in a nuclear explosion that would have surely torn every piece of him into well... lots of little pieces. So how did he survive?

Peter didn't actually explode, he just had tons of energy emanate from his body.

the fifth man
November 21st, 2007, 07:51 PM
Peter didn't actually explode, he just had tons of energy emanate from his body.

His clothes were all tattered because of that energy escaping from within him. If he had actually exploded, nothing of his clothes would have survived.

cheese
November 21st, 2007, 08:50 PM
I'm not convinced the blood could cure the virus. One of the primary symoptoms(sp?) of the virus is that it removes powers. It would seem to me that it would remove the special nature of the blood from Claire or Adam, rendering it entirely useless. If Claire or Adam are infected it would make most sense for them to lose their ability rather than be immune.

The Blood's ressurection qualities are a little baffling. But they make sense within the show. If the blood can heal Claire, and bring her back from death, and it can heal Nathen then it makes sense that it could also bring someone back from death. Maybe there is a time limit or something on how long it will work for after the individual is dead, 12 hours or something, hence why other dead characters can't just be brought back. Maybe if Claire hadn't had the stick pulled from her brain so quick she would have remained dead.

caskin
November 21st, 2007, 08:53 PM
Maybe the blood is a temporary fix kind of thing? The instant introduction of these superpowered blood cells and dna to the system creates a temporary fix that fades off after a while and then it eventually dies out and loses it's potency. In the end having never altered the DNA of the person it was given to, just repairing any damaged cells it ran across.

Although this could conflict with a few things like growing back whole limbs and organs, since how would the blood (while on it's quick cell repair splurge) know to bring back a limb if it never knew those cells were missing to begin with? Confuuuuusing....

cheese
November 21st, 2007, 09:04 PM
Not knowing enough genetics makes it tricky to be specific, but the body does have a "map" of itself (Genes govern everything from skin tone to body structure, and the brain also has a self-map too), so the superhealing blood could use this as it's blueprint for healing.

caskin
November 21st, 2007, 09:55 PM
Not knowing enough genetics makes it tricky to be specific, but the body does have a "map" of itself (Genes govern everything from skin tone to body structure, and the brain also has a self-map too), so the superhealing blood could use this as it's blueprint for healing.

Hey, that makes sense. Reading and adapting to the DNA and "map" of the body it was introduced to, then filling in the blanks to make the proper repairs.

Heck, y'know I hardly know anything about how cells and dna and how genetics work myself :P aside from learning some basics laws of inheritence, so I can predict the outcomes of reptile breeding (stuff like... heterozygous, homozygous, alleles, loci, recessive, dominant, co-dominant, double-hets, triple-hets, predicting hets, etc. etc.)
Although knowing what little I do has made watching the show that much more interesting for me :D.

Dusk
November 25th, 2007, 10:24 PM
The virus does negate special abilities, likely by blocking the expression of the genes that code for the powers. Claire's blood has to have factors within it ready to activate in the event of a trauma, so if you took that blood and injected into into someone, the factors would operate until they were expended.

But it doesn't mean that the person given the blood will begin to exhibit the regenerative abilities in the future, because they would not have the genetic coding needed to make the factors beyond the effect of the initial blood transfusion.

Admittedly, this is stupid, because it does mean that potentially anybody can enjoy the benfits of the blood. Unless, and I'm certain it will eventuate, there is/are things we do not yet know about the process that may give it a limiting effect.

eri-chan
November 26th, 2007, 12:41 AM
hmmmmm to change the topic a little... a thought occurred to me. with the hatian being able to turn off powers, can he turn off claire and adam's power too??

if indeed the power stems from parts of their brains, surely the hatian could turn that power off too right?

jrd231
November 26th, 2007, 04:32 AM
They've already crossed a line in the show that makes anything they do irrelevant. They've introduced the reset button. They've disregarded their previous rules and made up new ones. The evolution was supposed to be in the brain, now it's in the blood, too? I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Isaac again, or D.L. or Linderman. All they have to do is introduce some back story where the company showed up shortly after their death, such as Linderman's, and carted him off to their facility where they brought him back to life with Adam's blood and he's back on the show. It's ridiculous.

Don't count ANYBODY out as far as returning to the show. As much as I like the show, it's jumped the shark. I can't take it seriously anymore. It doesn't even follow the rules it set in the first season.

drake122
November 26th, 2007, 07:04 AM
This whole discussion is stupid. Heroes is a TV show, fiction, nothing more. You can't apply molecular biology or genetics to explain the things done in a TV show. Just watch it for entertainment and stop thinking on how is flight, regeneration, telekinesis, etc, possible for the heroes. It is pointless anyway :(

jrd231
November 26th, 2007, 08:54 AM
This whole discussion is stupid. Heroes is a TV show, fiction, nothing more. You can't apply molecular biology or genetics to explain the things done in a TV show. Just watch it for entertainment and stop thinking on how is flight, regeneration, telekinesis, etc, possible for the heroes. It is pointless anyway :(

You're right, it's fiction. A TV show for entertainment. Fine. How about Heroes can now create magical rainbows and surf them to get where they want to go? Who cares, it's just a fiction tv show, right? Who cares if it makes any sense whatsoever? Even though it's fiction, it has a set of rules it established in the first season. Now, they are re-writing the rules with disregard. But who cares, because it's fiction. Nobody wants to watch something that makes SENSE (in the context of the show), because again, it's just a made up story on TV. Maybe the characters should just start talking in pig latin or just jibberish, because TV shows are just fictional stories made up by people.

If you're going to expect me to dedicate an hour a week, or 26 hours a year to your product, the least you can do is provide me with something that makes sense within the context of the very rules that YOU'VE already established.

drake122
November 26th, 2007, 09:50 AM
You're right, it's fiction. A TV show for entertainment. Fine. How about Heroes can now create magical rainbows and surf them to get where they want to go? Who cares, it's just a fiction tv show, right? Who cares if it makes any sense whatsoever? Even though it's fiction, it has a set of rules it established in the first season. Now, they are re-writing the rules with disregard. But who cares, because it's fiction. Nobody wants to watch something that makes SENSE (in the context of the show), because again, it's just a made up story on TV. Maybe the characters should just start talking in pig latin or just jibberish, because TV shows are just fictional stories made up by people.

If you're going to expect me to dedicate an hour a week, or 26 hours a year to your product, the least you can do is provide me with something that makes sense within the context of the very rules that YOU'VE already established.

It seems I do not share your... obsession with TV shows and their stories.

I only watch shows that I find worth it. So far, Heroes is quite enjoyable for me. Now, if the creators decide to implement something really crazy or disturbing into it I will simply stop watching and move along. No big deal. Works for me, you can make it work for you too.

The Prophet
November 26th, 2007, 09:52 AM
This whole discussion is stupid. Heroes is a TV show, fiction, nothing more. You can't apply molecular biology or genetics to explain the things done in a TV show. Just watch it for entertainment and stop thinking on how is flight, regeneration, telekinesis, etc, possible for the heroes. It is pointless anyway :(


Doesn't real world science usually follow Sci-Fi science? :P

jrd231
November 26th, 2007, 10:07 AM
It seems I do not share your... obsession with TV shows and their stories.

I only watch shows that I find worth it. So far, Heroes is quite enjoyable for me. Now, if the creators decide to implement something really crazy or disturbing into it I will simply stop watching and move along. No big deal. Works for me, you can make it work for you too.

It has nothing to do with obsession, and everything to do with what little time I have to spend watching tv. I have time to watch maybe 4 1/2 hours of TV a week. I watch:

Heroes
Prison Break
Supernatural
Stargate Atlantis
The Office

TV shows I wish I had time to watch

Smallville
Bionic Woman
The Unit
Journeyman
Cold Case
Eureka
Criminal Minds
Bones


Thank God 24, Lost, and BSG haven't started yet.

Now, I'll continue to watch Heroes, because I still enjoy it. However, if they keep re-writing rules and it gets more and more ridiculous, it won't interest me anymore, and at that point I could have spent my valuable time enjoying one of the many other shows on my list that I don't have time for.

caskin
November 26th, 2007, 11:35 AM
hmmmmm to change the topic a little... a thought occurred to me. with the hatian being able to turn off powers, can he turn off claire and adam's power too??

if indeed the power stems from parts of their brains, surely the hatian could turn that power off too right?

I've wondered that myself from time to time as well. Makes sense that he would if you think about it.....

I also wonder if the Haitian can selectively target out people and only cancel their powers out if he wants, or if he just creates a big, involuntary "no power zone" around him... but that's for another conversation ;)

drake122
November 26th, 2007, 01:19 PM
Doesn't real world science usually follow Sci-Fi science? :P

yeah, with a lag of about 100 years. :P


It has nothing to do with obsession, and everything to do with what little time I have to spend watching tv. I have time to watch maybe 4 1/2 hours of TV a week. I watch:

.....

Whatever suits you...

tombombadil
November 26th, 2007, 02:36 PM
i guess the question is if it can destroy virus cells, for that matter can it kill bacteria?
i think if Clair got cancer Cellular regeneration would make it worse because cancer causes cells to multiply rapidliy, resulting in tumors. With cellular regeneration any attempt to destroy those tumors would prove futile.
I could be wrong though.

Dusk
November 26th, 2007, 07:38 PM
i guess the question is if it can destroy virus cells, for that matter can it kill bacteria?
i think if Clair got cancer Cellular regeneration would make it worse because cancer causes cells to multiply rapidliy, resulting in tumors. With cellular regeneration any attempt to destroy those tumors would prove futile.
I could be wrong though.

If she can stave off a virus, then this implies she has a highly advanced immune system, in which case she can deal with pretty much anything you toss at her, cancer included. But keep in mind that hereditary cancer is the result of bad genes, the heroes are the next step in evolution, they have better genes than the rest of us, so would likely only gain cancer through environmental factors.

And yes this IS fiction, just a show, but come ON, if you are going to have a show that obeys MOST scientific rules, why not others? Where do you draw the line and say "factor X is going to be scientifically plausible, but factor Y is going to be whatever we want it to be"?

jrd231
November 27th, 2007, 05:11 AM
If she can stave off a virus, then this implies she has a highly advanced immune system, in which case she can deal with pretty much anything you toss at her, cancer included. But keep in mind that hereditary cancer is the result of bad genes, the heroes are the next step in evolution, they have better genes than the rest of us, so would likely only gain cancer through environmental factors.

And yes this IS fiction, just a show, but come ON, if you are going to have a show that obeys MOST scientific rules, why not others? Where do you draw the line and say "factor X is going to be scientifically plausible, but factor Y is going to be whatever we want it to be"?

If you watched last nights episode "Truth & Consquences" 2x10, Claire isn't immune to the Shanti Virus, her blood coupled with Mohinder's antibodies from his blood can create a cure for the Shanti Virus.

tombombadil
November 27th, 2007, 11:50 AM
I said this in another thread early today,

For all we know Clair's blood might not be a definite end all cure though. Sorry to through X-men at you guys, but after Warren Worthington aka Archangel discoered his healing abilities from his second mutation, he used his blood to heal quite a few people, however, his blood couldn't revive everyone, there were factors like blood type and the Rh factor that had to be taken into account. Clair's blood could have similar, if not the same, abilities. But you should always consult a doctor before using Clair's blood, do not use the blood if you are pregnant, over 35, or are currently smoking. Clair's blood may not be right for every one and could cause harmful side effects, such as falling from 20 stories up, loss and regrowth of the baby toe, surviving car crashes at 70mph, and Chronic anul leakage and darkening of the stool. If you experience these symptoms please contact The Company.