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View Full Version : The Wraith are dumb?



kirmit
November 17th, 2007, 07:04 AM
It occurred to me watching 'The Seer' that twice now we've seen the blast wave from an exploding hive taking out another Hive. Now the Wraith are supposed to be pretty smart little guys, surely they could anticipate that being within a certain vicinity of an exploding Hive would take them out aswell, no? Surely a better course of action would be to simply damage the opposing hive enough that they couldn't fight back anymore instead of blowing them up and taking yourself out in the process.

AGateFan
November 17th, 2007, 07:11 AM
Yeah, sitting completely still in battle in space and blowing up an enemy ship whose explosion will destroy you does not appear to be a sound tactical manuever. How about executing "attack pattern delta" or something....DO SOMTHING.

jds1982
November 17th, 2007, 07:28 AM
Well how else were both Hives going to be taken out so that the story could progress?

kirmit
November 17th, 2007, 07:34 AM
Well how else were both Hives going to be taken out so that the story could progress?

Well that's the obvious real world answer but it made the Wraith look stupid and the fact it's happened twice makes it even more dumb. I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that this was the great race that took out the Ancients when they make such dumb moves.

jds1982
November 17th, 2007, 07:44 AM
Well look at it this way, the first Hive couldn't take a defensive stance or move out of explosion range without alerting the second Hive that they were up to something. The first Hive was probably hoping to avoid combat entirely and so allowed a ship of nominal "allies" to get close in order to maintain the deception. The switch to battle was quite quick, and we have no idea what systems were damaged on the Hive, it's possible their manuevering thrusters were damaged and they had no way to escape the blast. What is incredibly stupid is the continued Wraith infighting in the wake of the Asuran war effort.

Platschu
November 17th, 2007, 09:06 AM
It occurred to me watching 'The Seer' that twice now we've seen the blast wave from an exploding hive taking out another Hive. Now the Wraith are supposed to be pretty smart little guys, surely they could anticipate that being within a certain vicinity of an exploding Hive would take them out aswell, no? Surely a better course of action would be to simply damage the opposing hive enough that they couldn't fight back anymore instead of blowing them up and taking yourself out in the process.

They reused the blowing scene for the third time in the series, so what did you expect? :o

jelgate
November 17th, 2007, 09:10 AM
It occurred to me watching 'The Seer' that twice now we've seen the blast wave from an exploding hive taking out another Hive. Now the Wraith are supposed to be pretty smart little guys, surely they could anticipate that being within a certain vicinity of an exploding Hive would take them out aswell, no? Surely a better course of action would be to simply damage the opposing hive enough that they couldn't fight back anymore instead of blowing them up and taking yourself out in the process.
Hive ships are huge. It takes a lot more for them to move than the Daedels/Apolio. Think of a Hive ship like a semi truck. It needs more road to stop, turn

freyr's mother
November 17th, 2007, 09:12 AM
They reused the blowing scene for the third time in the series, so what did you expect? :o

I thought that was only the second. There was The Hive, and The Seer. What was the other one you speak of?

Avenger
November 17th, 2007, 10:34 AM
The engines could very well have been damaged after that kind of exchange.

Anubis-
November 17th, 2007, 10:41 AM
I thought that was only the second. There was The Hive, and The Seer. What was the other one you speak of?

Does Platschu mean Aurora (s02e09)? It is not same, but similar.

freyr's mother
November 17th, 2007, 10:44 AM
Does Platschu mean Aurora (s02e09)? It is not same, but similar.

Same..no. Similar yes. I was referring to reused stock footage of 2 hiveships destroying each other. The people who did the CG just took the darts and the Daedalus out of the sequence.

Wraith_Boy
November 17th, 2007, 11:06 AM
Well how else were both Hives going to be taken out so that the story could progress?

We could have seen a Replicator ship suddenly jump in. Have it shown that they discovered Hives on their sensors. Which will be a given since they're now at war. It destroys them, the Atlantis team has Carter & co kacking their pants because of the prophecy.

They are about to switch to shields because it hangs around scanning the surface (no doubt curious as to what 2 Wraith ships were doing orbiting an uninhabited planet) when it suddenly jumps back into HS.

However it is true, they knew they were too close, they would never have fired on each other if it led to what was basically suicide. They would have probably flown away a little bit further out before turning then launching a surprise attack on the other Hive, or it would have jumped away, then back again to cathc them off guard!

It simply needs to be put down as another convenient plot point to allow the Hives to go while still keeping Atlantis a secret from the rest of the Wraith!

Platschu
November 17th, 2007, 01:30 PM
I thought that was only the second. There was The Hive, and The Seer. What was the other one you speak of?
Sorry, it seems I remembered badly. I didn't find the third one. Similar scene was at the end of 3x02 Misbegotten, but not the same. :o

gopher65
November 17th, 2007, 05:02 PM
Same..no. Similar yes. I was referring to reused stock footage of 2 hiveships destroying each other. The people who did the CG just took the darts and the Daedalus out of the sequence.
You know, I don't mind flashbacks and such things. It is cool to re-see old well done CGI work. But directly reusing an old CGI scene and trying to pass it off as something new sucks. I HATES IT! That totally ruined this episode for me, just like it ruined the last episode of DS9 when they reused all that old CGI from the previous 2 seasons.

Grrrrr. Do they think we are too stupid to notice? I'd rather see 2 blips on a screen disappearing than a reused clip.

the fifth man
November 17th, 2007, 07:19 PM
You know, I don't mind flashbacks and such things. It is cool to re-see old well done CGI work. But directly reusing an old CGI scene and trying to pass it off as something new sucks. I HATES IT! That totally ruined this episode for me, just like it ruined the last episode of DS9 when they reused all that old CGI from the previous 2 seasons.

Grrrrr. Do they think we are too stupid to notice? I'd rather see 2 blips on a screen disappearing than a reused clip.

Personally, reusing a clip here and there doesn't really bother me too much. TPTB have to spend the money they have wisely, and reusing footage occasionally when the situation is similar to another helps them save some of that money for later in the season.

Now if something is reused constantly, that gets to me.

garhkal
November 17th, 2007, 09:21 PM
It occurred to me watching 'The Seer' that twice now we've seen the blast wave from an exploding hive taking out another Hive. Now the Wraith are supposed to be pretty smart little guys, surely they could anticipate that being within a certain vicinity of an exploding Hive would take them out aswell, no? Surely a better course of action would be to simply damage the opposing hive enough that they couldn't fight back anymore instead of blowing them up and taking yourself out in the process.

That has bothered me too, perhaps it was more of the other ship had orders to sacrifice themselves if needed to ensure atlantis' cooperation with the virus redux.


They reused the blowing scene for the third time in the series, so what did you expect?

Second not third. THe only other time it was shown was in The Hive (season 2 ep 11)

mago1978
November 17th, 2007, 09:28 PM
Maybe the Hive loyal to the wraith in Atlantis was being damaged to much so to protect the secret of Atlantis, which at that time was in their best interest, they blew up their own ship knowing it would take out the other.

Mitchell82
November 17th, 2007, 11:18 PM
Personally, reusing a clip here and there doesn't really bother me too much. TPTB have to spend the money they have wisely, and reusing footage occasionally when the situation is similar to another helps them save some of that money for later in the season.

Now if something is reused constantly, that gets to me.

Me either the only time re using a scene botherd me was in season 4's Small Victories. They used the scene of the guards coming in the gate-room from the pilot very noticable considering it was very grainy.

elbo
November 18th, 2007, 05:40 AM
It occurred to me watching 'The Seer' that twice now we've seen the blast wave from an exploding hive taking out another Hive. Now the Wraith are supposed to be pretty smart little guys, surely they could anticipate that being within a certain vicinity of an exploding Hive would take them out aswell, no? Surely a better course of action would be to simply damage the opposing hive enough that they couldn't fight back anymore instead of blowing them up and taking yourself out in the process.

Good point. This was a dumb/rushed tactical decision (for the second hive at least), but not necesarely inconsistent with the Wraith profile. Let's not forget that the Wraith are a instictual specie and they have basic instincts that cannot be controlled.

It is also possible for CG Wraith hive ship to intent this outcame, knowing that this will be the only way could regain Atlantis trust and continue the joint plan. It is possible that the CG Wraith comunicate a telepathic order to his hive and we know that the Wraith don't have too much problems with the sacrifice. This would explain how this last one knew in the next scene that his hive was destroyed.

SG13-NightOps
November 18th, 2007, 09:04 AM
Yeah, sitting completely still in battle in space and blowing up an enemy ship whose explosion will destroy you does not appear to be a sound tactical manuever. How about executing "attack pattern delta" or something....DO SOMTHING.

LMFAO!

Perhaps their loyalty to CG Wraith and their desire to turn off the Replicators made them feel their sacrifice was justifiable.

garhkal
November 18th, 2007, 03:32 PM
And since the majority of those wraith we see oN hives are those faceless drones, who is to say they had a choice in the matter.

Amalthea
November 18th, 2007, 08:00 PM
Well, I figured the ships were going at each other fairly evenly, so the other one probably was just as busted up as the one that exploded, but got beaten to the punch, as it were.

As for reusing CGI, Star Trek used the same Klingon ship exploding from the 6th movie for over 7 years. I get that it kind of sucks, but really, they only have so much money. Think of Wormhole Extreme and remember, it was just a few weeks ago we were dancing on the tables that SGA got picked up for another season. Don't go spending money we don't have!

sweetsamurai
November 19th, 2007, 07:59 AM
I do agree that blowing another ship in close proximity is pretty stupid, but the Wraith are under immense pressure, paranoia is brewing amongst the Wraith and they are in severe desperation since the Replicators and the Atlantis Team are kicking their mutated green and blue bums. These factors can make you behave in brash behaviour. I know sometimes when playing console games and I get desperate to kick the bad guy at the end level - I just blast and I don't think straight; end up killing myself.

But it is still stupid.

Dalario
November 19th, 2007, 07:20 PM
Well, it was said by the wraith in atlantis that he only have a few followers, maybe they were only a few on the hive so maybe they destroyed themselves (maybe 100 or 1000 in the ship) to destroy their fully loaded hive ship (how many... those ships are bigs... 10,000 or more wraith ?)

AutumnDream
November 19th, 2007, 08:57 PM
They are dumb when the writers need them to be dumb and smart when the writers need them to be smart. Believe you me, if a plot they came up with required Sheppard to walk from one end of a Hive to the other completed naked in order to escape, they'd make the Wraith dumb enough for the episode to make it happen. This is what we students of literature call "good writing".

o-0
November 20th, 2007, 12:20 PM
Maybe the wraith actually knew that there cannot be a blast wave in space in reality but the graphic designer Gods of SGA decided that there will be and so the wraith were like "WTF! OMG U CANT DO THAT SHIZ!! *dies*"

An-Alteran
November 23rd, 2007, 11:15 AM
Maybe the wraith actually knew that there cannot be a blast wave in space in reality but the graphic designer Gods of SGA decided that there will be and so the wraith were like "WTF! OMG U CANT DO THAT SHIZ!! *dies*"
That is very plausible. :o

But there can be energy blast waves in space- just not pressure waves.

A nuke in space woulds releases a massive gamma radiation burst wave, buit most of its power would not be there because of the lack of air to create the pressure wave.

Starpass
December 3rd, 2007, 02:06 PM
The Wraith aren't dumb. They're just hungry lol

When McKay was asking with the Wraith guy to save Jeannie (McKay's sister) I could tell the Wraith was not comfortable. The only thing on his mind was sustenance.
But I could also see he had 'family,' that he cared about when Rodney mentioned his hive ship being destroyed, by the way he reacted; unless I mistook 'caring' (for others) for 'selfishness' (loosing his ship) I suppose it doesn't really matter how I read it; the Wraith are still a formidable foe and no they aren't dumb.