Goa'uld space travel

[Morrolan]

This may have been brought up before, but how did the Goa'uld reach space? The Unas are supposed to be the first hosts, but they are very primitive. Was it a fluke that some exploration team stumbled upon the Goa'uld home planet or could they have been seeded throughout the galaxy?

[Xaeden]

Persumably, after they infested the Unas they figured out how to use the Stargate and over time grew in intelligence while they were scavanging Ancient technology that would've been more widespread back then if they were one of the first to really begin exploring after they were wiped out by the plaque. All we know for sure is that they didn't build a civilization on their home planet and that they once ruled an empire with the Unas as their hosts so they developed to civilization levels on other planets.

[Cap116]

Sounds good to me.

[Morrolan]

Persumably, after they infested the Unas they figured out how to use the Stargate and over time grew in intelligence while they were scavanging Ancient technology that would've been more widespread back then if they were one of the first to really begin exploring after they were wiped out by the plaque. All we know for sure is that they didn't build a civilization on their home planet and that they once ruled an empire with the Unas as their hosts so they developed to civilization levels on other planets.

That makes sense. I am a little surprised more backstory hasn't been done on the Goa'uld. It's weird that a race as primitive as the Unas could form a civilization and even conquer other worlds. I know that the Goa'uld parasite would increase the intelligence of the species, but I don't understand how the snakes could evolve living in a lake. Any idea how long the Goa'uld have been around? Not as System Lords, but as a species.

[SaberBlade]

In 'The First Ones', Dr. Rothman said they had found Goa'uld fossils that were millions of years old.

[Morrolan]

In 'The First Ones', Dr. Rothman said they had found Goa'uld fossils that were millions of years old.

I missed that one. That makes alot more sense.

[Dev Corvin]

The Goa'uld level intelligence is IMMENSE. Not quite on the same level as the Ancients, but with the massive amount of Ancient technology left behind across the Milky Way for them to reverse engineer, determining basic things to enable them to develop their own technology over time wasn't difficult.

Don't forget, the human race - with a significantly lower level of intelligence than the Goa'uld - went from being a world that relied on burning wood and coal as a fuel to having nuclear fission reactors in a matter of centuries; making the jump from a primitive race to masters of their environment in the past few thousand or so years wouldn't have exactly been difficult for the Goa'uld.

We do know one thing though; we know that the Ancients left this galaxy a couple of million years ago, so the Goa'ulds emersion as a dominent species in this galaxy would have at least happened after then, and we know Ra had a base on Earth ~ 30,000 years ago, and their conflict with the Asgard probably started some time between then and the rebellion on Earth 4,000 years ago.

[Morrolan]

The Goa'uld level intelligence is IMMENSE. Not quite on the same level as the Ancients, but with the massive amount of Ancient technology left behind across the Milky Way for them to reverse engineer, determining basic things to enable them to develop their own technology over time wasn't difficult.

Don't forget, the human race - with a significantly lower level of intelligence than the Goa'uld - went from being a world that relied on burning wood and coal as a fuel to having nuclear fission reactors in a matter of centuries; making the jump from a primitive race to masters of their environment in the past few thousand or so years wouldn't have exactly been difficult for the Goa'uld.

We do know one thing though; we know that the Ancients left this galaxy a couple of million years ago, so the Goa'ulds emersion as a dominent species in this galaxy would have at least happened after then, and we know Ra had a base on Earth ~ 30,000 years ago, and their conflict with the Asgard probably started some time between then and the rebellion on Earth 4,000 years ago.

I suppose that's my question. Forgive my basic interpretation, but essentially you have snakes living in a lake without much in way of environmental change to cause evolution. I liken it to the fish we observe in the seas. Not a tremendous development of intelligence on the level of technology or space travel. How did they gain the knowledge they possess before leaving their home planet?

[Mister Oragahn]

Sounds good to me.

Sounds bad to me. The official "From Pond to Space & Beyond" theory sucks mighty balls.

At best, they parasited an Ancient, or an individual from an advanced space faring society, who got too close to the pond.
Of course, the idea that the parasitic connection would work with any other species, while the symbiotes only had Unas to work on for millenia, is absurd.

We're not taling about laying eggs under the skin here. We're talking about establishing connections with the delicate nervous system of a sentient being.

My own theory is that the Goa'uld are an Alteraan pet project, either created from scratch or through forced mutations, to work around the plague issue.

[Dev Corvin]

Intelligence is not the only prerequisite for the development of technological societies. Other species on Earth have relatively high levels of intelligence; the classic example being dolphins.

However, they lack the PHYSICAL attributes necessary for the creation of technology. Goa'uld probably existed in the same state - highly intelligent, but unable to physically manipulate their environment. Therefore, they probably evolved the ability to take on host bodies (the Unas) and control them as a way to expand and develop as a species.

As I said, everything else could have been worked out essentially from scratch by learning by example (the Ancient tech left behind in the Milky Way), and the increased speed of development relative to our own due to their higher intelligence, longer life spans, and the ability to pass down knowledge through their genetic code.

[Xaeden]

I suppose that's my question. Forgive my basic interpretation, but essentially you have snakes living in a lake without much in way of environmental change to cause evolution. I liken it to the fish we observe in the seas. Not a tremendous development of intelligence on the level of technology or space travel. How did they gain the knowledge they possess before leaving their home planet?

Well all they really needed to do is become smart enough to figure out how the gate worked and then they could've advanced to their current level any number of ways. For all we know they used the Unas for quite some time on their own planet. Originally both creatures would've been very simple, (that's not to say unintelligent, just unworldly with little understanding of how things work, but not necessarily the inability to learn quickly once exposed to new things) but as time passed they began to learn about the world around them they advanced in a similar fashion to Humans by creating simple socities beyond the Hunter gather lifestyle (something the modern Unas, themselves, are beyond). I see the Goa'uld ancestors as curious creatures who were amazed by going from swimming in a river to connecting with such a mobile creature so they were very eager to learn and very eager to experience new things. Once they figured out the gate, either on their own or thanks to the influence of some traveler they wouldn't have been smart enough to know how to get home so they likely developed on another planet. Which explains why there are no signs of the Goa'uld on the Unas planet besides their primitives ancestors - The Unas probably united and drove out the remaining hosts and after that learned how to protect themselves from being reinfested.

[marty2006]

Intelligence is not the only prerequisite for the development of technological societies. Other species on Earth have relatively high levels of intelligence; the classic example being dolphins.

However, they lack the PHYSICAL attributes necessary for the creation of technology. Goa'uld probably existed in the same state - highly intelligent, but unable to physically manipulate their environment. Therefore, they probably evolved the ability to take on host bodies (the Unas) and control them as a way to expand and develop as a species.

As I said, everything else could have been worked out essentially from scratch by learning by example (the Ancient tech left behind in the Milky Way), and the increased speed of development relative to our own due to their higher intelligence, longer life spans, and the ability to pass down knowledge through their genetic code.

First intelligent thing said, green for you.

[ManiacMike]

Sounds bad to me. The official "From Pond to Space & Beyond" theory sucks mighty balls.

At best, they parasited an Ancient, or an individual from an advanced space faring society, who got too close to the pond.
Of course, the idea that the parasitic connection would work with any other species, while the symbiotes only had Unas to work on for millenia, is absurd.

We're not taling about laying eggs under the skin here. We're talking about establishing connections with the delicate nervous system of a sentient being.

My own theory is that the Goa'uld are an Alteraan pet project, either created from scratch or through forced mutations, to work around the plague issue.

now THAT sounds bad to me.

What would be so bad about, the Goa'uld taking over Unas and traveling through the stargates conquering races and adding to their army. Its logical that every once in a while that they would run into a race that is technologically advanced and absorb it as their own. Growing to a point where they can declare themselves as gods and start the jaffa project, to increase their numbers even more, while having a strong army to enforce your will.

[Morrolan]

As I said, everything else could have been worked out essentially from scratch by learning by example (the Ancient tech left behind in the Milky Way), and the increased speed of development relative to our own due to their higher intelligence, longer life spans, and the ability to pass down knowledge through their genetic code.

I think you're kind of missing the mark of what I'm asking. The Goa'uld would have a limit to their technical intelligence because they spent their whole existence in a lake from creation to the day they took their first host. We know for a fact that the Unas were not advanced enough to use technology. Just because the Ancient tech was there, it doesn't mean that the Goa'uld/Unas could use it to any degree.

Let's say you had no idea what a nuclear reaction was and had never seen a nuclear reactor. If I gave you a nuclear reactor without any instructions, do you really think you could get it to work in any reasonable amount of time? Keep in mind that you have absolutely no inkling of what atoms are or how they work. Think about it. First, you would have to discover nuclear reactions, then you would have to understand that a machine could produce power through nuclear reactions. Then you would have to completely understand the process of producing power through a nuclear reaction. Finally, you'd have to figure out how to use the reactor without blowing yourself up. It took us millions of years to get to that point.

Considering the Goa'uld are more advanced than we are, was there a host early on that provided them with advanced knowledge to kind of jump start them? I do agree with you that a snowball effect in their technical development would happen through their genetic memories.

[Dev Corvin]

It took us millions of years to get to that point.

No... It actually took us around 5,000 years, from the first real humans (the European evolution of Homo Erectus, migrated from the African continent), to create practically ALL the knowledge currently in existance. The Egyptians got things rolling a few thousands years previously, as somewhat of an evolutionary pit-stop, but weren't able to take it anywhere near as far as the Europeans were. I'm actually writing a paper on this, might post it at some point if I ever finish it.

Plus, the real knitty-gritty came after the discovery/production of electricity in the last couple of hundred years. Before that, it was all just rocks as tools in the big scheme of things. Think about it, all of that basic and simple stuff that it took us thousands of years to evolve to a point where our neural mapping was complex enough to comprehend? The Goa'uld would have been able to INSTANTLY look at their new physical forms and comprehend it. Add to that the immense strength of an Unas, plus the added boost of the Goa'uld symbiote supplementing the nervous system; a few hudnred Unas could accomplish construction tasks that would have taken THOUSANDS of humans to do on Earth. Who knows, maybe some of the first Pyramids were built by Unas Goa'uld originally, at least on other worlds anyway, as we know Ra used slaves for a lot of the construction work.

Considering the Goa'uld are more advanced than we are, was there a host early on that provided them with advanced knowledge to kind of jump start them?

Doubtful, like I said, they would have been able to progress MUCH farther than we did in the 10,000 (max) years we've had to develop as a species (including the Egyptian civilisation), in MUCH less time. Starting from scratch really isn't that difficult when you're already ahead of the game, mentally anyway.