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GateWorld
November 12th, 2007, 07:13 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/heroes/s2/powerless/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/powerless.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px #000000 solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">HEROES SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/heroes/s2/powerless/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">POWERLESS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 211</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Peter and Adam infiltrate Primatech to find the virus that will wipe out most of the world's population, but Nathan and Matt try to stop them. Hiro goes after Adam for personal revenge, while Claire plans to expose the Company. Micah asks his mother for help after his cousin is kidnapped while trying to be a hero.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/heroes/s2/powerless/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

chyron
December 3rd, 2007, 07:04 PM
Hot s**t! I liked what Hiro did to Adam.

Lady Snow
December 3rd, 2007, 07:05 PM
Yeah, Hiro wins the season.

HenryHayes
December 3rd, 2007, 07:05 PM
Am I the only one getting tired of them making characters likeable & then killing them off ? If the one that died at the end does not come back I am done with this show & will stick with 24 at 9 when things return to normal in terms of the strike.

TDgamer
December 3rd, 2007, 07:06 PM
Nathan is not dead. He will either be restored with the blood he already had transplanted, or they will give him another transplant.

Adam is going to get out, somehow. I guarantee you.

Xicer
December 3rd, 2007, 07:06 PM
Why Nathan. :(

An alright finale but I can't say I'm very happy with the way things turned out...The Nikki/Micah/Monica story bored me to death, and I almost didn't care when Nikki died. I was really liking Nathan this episode, this was quite possibly the worst time to kill him off. I didn't care too much for Claire's story either. Adam being buried alive? I dunno what to make of that one. Oh and Peter was dumb as ever.

Its good to see Sylar with his powers back. And he can heal now too!

I thought Volume 3 was called Exodus, but at the end of the episode it said Villains?

jds1982
December 3rd, 2007, 07:10 PM
Is it sad that the best episode of the season is the last? Also is Peter the most forgetful person ever, he can read minds, he did last episode. If they had Adam have some kind of resistance to it I could understand, but to not have him even attempt it defies belief. Also I agree, Hiro wins the season.

chyron
December 3rd, 2007, 07:10 PM
Why Nathan. :(

An alright finale but I can't say I'm very happy with the way things turned out...The Nikki/Micah/Monica story bored me to death, and I almost didn't care when Nikki died. I was really liking Nathan this episode, this was quite possibly the worst time to kill him off. I didn't care too much for Claire's story either. Adam being buried alive? I dunno what to make of that one. Oh and Peter was dumb as ever.

Its good to see Sylar with his powers back. And he can heal now too!

I thought Volume 3 was called Exodus, but at the end of the episode it said Villains?

I agree about Nikki, I wasn't the least bit shocked, surprised, dismayed or upset. Peter on the other hand surprised me and somewhat I wasn't shocked by the implication of the next scene.

jds1982
December 3rd, 2007, 07:12 PM
Its good to see Sylar with his powers back. And he can heal now too!

The healing was the result of the vaccine, I don't think Sylar will keep it.

Xicer
December 3rd, 2007, 07:20 PM
Ah that's true, oh well it was a nice thought.

A Lost Cause
December 3rd, 2007, 07:23 PM
wow I didn't know Hiro could be so cruel... A fate worse then death IMO(though Im betting he will get out).

Other then that great episode other then the people who said that the healing will be overused are definitely right. I dont see nathan staying gone...(I wonder if peters blood has the same ability as Adam/Clair?)

And i wonder if syler will have the powers of the people he killed while not having his regular powers?

Either way a great ending to the season :)

the fifth man
December 3rd, 2007, 07:26 PM
Nikki, sadly, I could deal with losing. Not Nathan though. I really hope they do bring him back. Sadly though, I'm not sure about the chances of that.

After all, they've already brought back Bennett and Maya. I'm just not sure they want to make a trend out of this. Besides, Nathan's death might really be the thing that lights a fire under Peter finally.

As for Sylar, I'm glad he's back to 100%.

And Hiro, wow! He definitely avenged his father with how he got rid of Adam.

chyron
December 3rd, 2007, 07:36 PM
As you might have guessed from my first post, Adam's fate is one of those things thats going to stick with me for a good long time. If he doesn't come back at all, I'd have to rank it up there with some of the greater moments in television history. I just can't stop laughing over his fate.

ShadowMaat
December 3rd, 2007, 07:37 PM
I loved Hiro's use of his powers, but watching him get thumped down every time started feeling silly. He ended up with the last laugh, though. I just wish he'd chosen something a little more permanent than live burial. Poetic, but risky.

As for the rest of it... meh. I'm all for a slow burn, but these stories took far too long to progress, IMO, to the point where I've basically stopped caring. Even the death of my favorite character produced nothing but a pang of regret. And some residual anger. They could easily have left Nathan for dead in the S1 finale, but no, they had to bring him back and then waste him for the entire frakking season. The ONLY point to his character was as bait for Peter- first to convince him that Adam's intentions were good and then to convince him that Adam was evil. While I can understand the brotherly bond and Nathan being one of the few Peter could trust, I felt that the whole arc and its resolution was fairly pathetic. They saved Nathan just for that?! Ye gods, you've got the character, why not USE HIM?? Even if his ultimate point is as a motivation for Peter that doesn't mean he can't do other things while he's waiting, but making him twiddle his thumbs for the entire (abbreviated) season just for one moment of glory? That's bad writing, if you ask me, and Kring's "oops, we thought fans wanted a slow build" excuse doesn't cover something like this because there WAS no build. There was NOTHING for him all season long, so his death has virtually no impact on me as a fan- which is pretty damn sad considering he was my favorite last year.

Nathan's death will impact Peter, of course, but apparently that's all Nathan is good for, anyway: affecting Peter. At least this season. :rolleyes: You could probably make an argument that Nathan's journey last season was still all about Peter, too. *sigh* I wish Peter had died, instead. That would be a daring move.

I'm ambivalent about Nikki. She was never one of my favorite characters, anyway, and again, we got kinda shafted on her story this season. Plus I won't be convinced that she's really dead until they recover the body. And even then I'll be waiting to see if anything is made of her carrying a virus, or if Peter's little zap job was the end of the whole storyline.

It's always about Peter, isn't it? Gods, he's like Jack from Lost: eventually EVERYTHING was about him, which was one of the reasons I stopped watching. This overkill of Saint Peter could drive me away from Heroes, too.

I'm also sick of Sylar. He was menacing last year, but now he's gotten kinda lame. Again, it's as if the writers simply put his character on pause instead of actually trying to develop him. Ooo, look, he murders people even when he can't gain powers from them. What a shock. :rolleyes: They could have used the time to explore his character, to work on his motivations, maybe even to make him question who and what he is and the Maya/Alejandro situation could have served as a good backdrop to that: a brother and sister who genuinely love one another and always watch the other's back. That's something Sylar never had and might not be able to understand. Sure, he understands it enough to manipulate it, but he isn't affected by it. What a waste. It could have been used as an opportunity to develop Maya and Alejandro, too, but instead we got zip.

If I didn't know better I'd be tempted to say that the people writing these eps had never even seen the show before, nevermind written for it. *grumble* Everywhere I look, characters are being wasted, potential is ignored, and nearly everyone is behaving like an utter idiot.

Oh, and I take it folks caught the fact that Mama Petrelli murdered her own son? *takes deep breath* Yeah, whatever.

edit: oh yes, on the plus side, at least Elle isn't as much of a comical one-dimensional freak anymore.

the fifth man
December 3rd, 2007, 07:49 PM
As you might have guessed from my first post, Adam's fate is one of those things thats going to stick with me for a good long time. If he doesn't come back at all, I'd have to rank it up there with some of the greater moments in television history. I just can't stop laughing over his fate.

I thought it was great.:) He definitely deserved what he got from Hiro. Imagine what was going through his head trapped in that coffin, knowing he was going to be like that forever.

the fifth man
December 3rd, 2007, 07:51 PM
edit: oh yes, on the plus side, at least Elle isn't as much of a comical one-dimensional freak anymore.

Indeed! I really like what they've done with Elle toward the end here. I can't wait to see if she continues to progress when the show starts up again.

HenryHayes
December 3rd, 2007, 08:03 PM
If Adam got out that scene would be ruined. But them again they seem to like to ruin good scenes with something stupid

the fifth man
December 3rd, 2007, 08:17 PM
If Adam got out that scene would be ruined. But them again they seem to like to ruin good scenes with something stupid

I personally don't think he will get out. I really hope the writers leave Hiro's punishment for Adam as it is. Let him suffer for eternity buried alive.

HenryHayes
December 3rd, 2007, 08:18 PM
I personally don't think he will get out. I really hope the writers leave Hiro's punishment for Adam as it is. Let him suffer for eternity buried alive.

If Nathan
is not saved in the next Volume & combine that with the extreme stupidy of this episode I got no problem with switching to 24 same time different channel :cool: I let alot of things slide this Volume but this Episode was something else

Iguana775
December 3rd, 2007, 08:19 PM
Hot s**t! I liked what Hiro did to Adam.

That was about the only part I liked about the season finally.

very predictable and seemed very rushed.

I really wish someone would finish off Sylar. ugh...

Oh, there was another part I thought was good....when Parkman and Nathan came flying in. lol.

HenryHayes
December 3rd, 2007, 08:22 PM
Parkman and Nathan came flying in. lol.

I hope there is a deleted scene on the DVD with Nathan flying Matt & Nathan is trying not to drop him for being so heavy

LoneStar1836
December 3rd, 2007, 08:38 PM
Nathan! :(:( What a waste. :mckay: He should have died in the blast last season like I wanted him to to make it meaningful.

Dang! Maya didn't stay dead. Don't really care about Niki.

Go Hiro. I hope they leave Adam like that. Won't he eventually die because of lack of oxygen? Then come back. Die again. Repeat for infinity. That's worse than dying and staying dead if that's how it's gonna work. How sadistic of Hiro. :cool:

Could anyone tell who the trigger man was that killed Nathan? It wasn't HRG was it?

Lady Snow
December 3rd, 2007, 08:59 PM
Oh, there was another part I thought was good....when Parkman and Nathan came flying in. lol.

"Let's never talk about this again, okay?"
"Yeah."

Quite possibly the best Heroes exchange ever. :)

ShadowMaat
December 3rd, 2007, 09:00 PM
Could anyone tell who the trigger man was that killed Nathan? It wasn't HRG was it?

I thought it was his mother. It was someone with close-cropped hair dressed in black. In a later scene we see mom (who has close-cropped hair) dressed in black and talking on the phone. It seemed clear to me, but maybe I am drawing lines where there are none.

ToasterOnFire
December 3rd, 2007, 09:03 PM
I'm very disappointed in the finale and the season as a whole. I didn't care about Maya or her bro, didn't care about Peter in Ireland, wasn't all that interested in Hiro in Japan, thought Adam was a poor baddie compared to Sylar, and thought Claire and West started at ick and didn't get much better. I felt like there were a lot storylines and characters that were introduced and promptly vanished or weren't tied together well. And the finale felt really rushed, though I can forgive most of that on the refilming due to the strike.

Either Nathan is dead or they'll use special blood or healing powers to resurrect him. I'm not sure which option I'd prefer. I'm starting to think that the healing could be overused as a way to get around death, lessening the emotional impact of it.

IMO, Heroes was at its best in the first half of season 1 and just went downhill from there. Frustrating. :mckay:

LoneStar1836
December 3rd, 2007, 09:06 PM
I thought it was his mother. It was someone with close-cropped hair dressed in black. In a later scene we see mom (who has close-cropped hair) dressed in black and talking on the phone. It seemed clear to me, but maybe I am drawing lines where there are none.
Ah okay. It cut so quick I didn't really get a good look. Suppose I wasn't paying that close attention. I thought she was getting a call about Nathan being dead rather than the other way around. Too much detail for me to absorb that quick in one watching. I'm not very good with details. :D Will have to watch it again Saturday.

I just wondered if it wasn't HRG since he is now having to deal with the devil again and do their bidding to protect his family.

SierraGulf1
December 3rd, 2007, 09:16 PM
If the next volume can redeem this one, I might still remain an avid fan. But they've got a lot to redeem:

1) By the end of this season, I find myself caring about only five characters: Elle, Nathan, Noah, Parkman, and Hiro, and those are the only five that don't exit the season with intelligence. I was willing to write Hiro off as a dumbass last episode for charging Peter, but he earned redemption when he teleported behind him and actually asked what was going on. And then, what with what he did to Adam... Good stuff. Elle became interesting in this episode, actual growth of character (gasp!). Parkman's mind battle with Peter was pretty cool, I liked Parkman a lot more this volume than I did in the last. Noah and Nathan have always been my favorites, and if this truly is the end of Nathan I've lost a HUGE investment in the show. I think Peter could have died; he serves no purpose anymore and was a complete puppet all season. Claire, Peter, and Mohinder were all over the place this season while Micah, Sylar, Monica, and Niki were too static. As for Maya, don't even get me started on how pissed off I am that Nathan might be a goner while she gets the death-cure. And why did they make Ando a regular?

2) The virus is gone just like that? I can let this one go; they had to film an alternate ending and perhaps this explains it. Either way, blegh.

Some good stuff:

1) The characters mentioned above as intelligent (Hiro, Nathan, Noah, Elle, and Parkman) were all in top form. Hiro's way of dealing with Adam, Parkman's mind dual with Peter, Elle's slow transformation, Nathan's speech to Peter and press conference speech, Noah with the Company enjoying Bob's torture, and the Nathan/Parkman exchange when they landed. I could watch a show starring these five.

2) Bob's computer password was Midas. Hehe.

3) While I don't want a rehash of season one, I'm glad Sylar's got his powers back. I wish his time without them had changed him though.

ShadowMaat
December 3rd, 2007, 09:25 PM
It's almost as if most of this season was a waste. Other than some introductory set-up, nothing really happened until the last couple of episodes, and for all Kring's excuses about the mistake of following last season's pattern, I'm not sure he did because I seem to recall last season having a lot more interesting detail along the way. Maybe time is adding colors where there were none, but I have this nagging feeling like there were a lot of agonizing mini cliffhangers sprinkled through even the first half of S1, whereas S2 rarely had me working up any energy. Or at least not positive energy. ;)

Darren
December 3rd, 2007, 09:46 PM
Who was it that called Nathan and Niki dying? I could have sworn someone posted that prediction last week ... Who was it, again?

This was an entirely by-the-numbers episode. For all the slow, uninspired and unrisky build-up that they did in the previous 10 episodes, this episode was utterly unremarkable. Everything played out pretty much the way you expected it to, from the intervention with Peter to Hiro's revenge to Niki's heroic self-sacrifice.

The good:

1) Elle finally becomes a character worth caring about. She's still a brat looking for Daddy's approval, but now it's in a good way!

2) Sylar finally has his powers back.

3) Noah has to go back to work for the Company!

4) Molly. She's cute and cool.

5) Ma Petrelli seems to be either involved with or complicit in Nathan's murder. I'm glad she's survived to Volume III.

6) Hiro burying Adam alive. A bold choice on the writers' part.

The bad:

1) Hiro burying Adam alive. It seems uncharacteristically sadistic of him. After Sylar, is he really that squimish about killing someone?

2) Sylar's Popeye moment with the spinach can ... corny. "I'm back." Cornball.

3) Sylar didn't seem to grow as a character at all in Season Two.

4) In just two episodes, the Claire blood is becoming way over-used as a plot device.

5) Matt flying on Nathan's back -- obviously necessary to get them to Texas so quickly, but the exchange came across as pretty dopey to me.

6) Peter is my favorite character on the show, but even I can't continue to suspend disbelief in regards to his stupidity. He doesn't know Adam very well, Adam confessed to killing Hiro's father, Peter witnessed him murder Victoria, Hiro (whom Peter knows and trusts) told him that Adam has already tried to unleash the same virus once before ... and the fate of the world's population rests in just what Adam is going to do when he gets his hands on that vial. And guess what, Peter? You don't even have to confront him. You have the ability to read his mind.

7) Monica ended up not really being a character in her own right so far. She was a plot device for getting Niki killed. Micah and Elle both had more character development than Monica.

8) Maya, you're an idiot. And I don't mean the "Woah, the genius villain has been manipulating you" kind of idiot. I mean the dumber than a sack of dirt kind of idiot. The "I wonder if I confront this super-powered mass murder, who already said he plans to kill me, and who is waving a gun around right now, about killing my brother, if anything bad could possibly come of it" kind of idiot.

HenryHayes
December 3rd, 2007, 10:43 PM
Am I the only one that missed & enjoyed Hiros "Flying Man" when he saw Nathan after they landed & you can just tell by the look of Nathans face that he was thinking "**** its him"

LoneStar1836
December 3rd, 2007, 10:55 PM
Am I the only one that missed & enjoyed Hiros "Flying Man" when he saw Nathan after they landed & you can just tell by the look of Nathans face that he was thinking "**** its him"
Nah. You're not the only one. :D I love those little things about Hiro.

alaskannut
December 3rd, 2007, 11:05 PM
A. Called Adam getting buried so :p:p

B. NATHAN!!:eek::eek::eek:

C. No Heroes for how long?! ^&&^%$!!

memnarch
December 3rd, 2007, 11:42 PM
There seems to be some mixed reactions to this episode which kind of surprises me, since I can't wait for the next volume personally. Just the title is enough to get me watching. I love the motivations of villains a lot since sometimes they're more complex than that of the heroes.

So, anyway, I have to concur with mostly everyone that Hiro's method of dealing with Adam, though awesome and fitting, wasn't entirely unexpected. This definitely leaves the door open for him to come back and I fully expect him to. The next volume is called Villains after all...

As for the other big wow moments in the episode, I definitely expected Niki to die. I knew without a doubt that if she went in without her super strength, she was going down. I do think that her character had a nice run, although it really sucks that Micah's lost both his parents so quickly. It'll be interesting to see the dynamic between Micah and Monica increase, since I think they've had a good rapport going so far. As for Nathan dying, I would be lying if I said that I didn't sort of see this coming as well. After Mohinder, Nathan was third on my list of most likely deaths.

Nathan has been a bit underutilized this season and that's definitely unfortunate. Hopefully though, Peter will be encouraged to finally get his act together. I'm also betting that his Irish girlfriend either doesn't come back or will die. On a side note, I loved Nathan and Matt's whole arc together. They made a great team and it really all culminated in their moment outside Primatech, which has to be one of the more hilarious things I've seen in a while.

Now: as for Nathan's killer...I am almost 99% sure that he was killed by Mr. Bennet. It makes sense as he was rehired earlier and seemed willing to do anything to keep his family safe. Even if it meant killing his daughter's birth father...Oh and by the way was there a scene of Bennet making a deal with Bob, because it seems really odd that he rejoined the ranks of the Company so fast, since he of all people knows they can't be trusted.

What I'm wondering though is who Angela Petrelli was talking to! If it was Bob, which makes a lot of sense, or maybe someone else involved in the Company who wasn't part of the group of founders.

While I did like 'Powerless' and think it made a great finale, I do have an issue with the volume as a whole. I think a lot of people were led to believe that far more about the previous generation was going to be revealed than there was, their powers for instance (Bob's one golden spoon doesn't count, haha). Still, we did learn a lot more about them than we did, so I guess I do have issue and I don't.

Overall, I give the episode ***1/2 stars

nekoi
December 4th, 2007, 12:45 AM
The writing for Peter is just getting ridiculous. He's overpowered, majorly forgetful and his plot is filled with holes.

Maya being revived was a HUGE let down.

Sylar returning to power was epic.

Hiro living was awesome-- not to mention his reunion with Nathan nothing short of adorable. Although shutting off Adam was WAY too quick and kind of confusing, it deffinately brought up a darker Hiro.

Nikki blowing up was expected... I somehow think she'll walk out okay next season, just because she's Ali Larter. SIGH.

Nathan being shot, I did not expect at all. Infact I was disapointed that it was him, over some other pointless characters... but I'm sure we all know that Claire will heal him.

chyron
December 4th, 2007, 03:43 AM
I loved Hiro's use of his powers, but watching him get thumped down every time started feeling silly. He ended up with the last laugh, though. I just wish he'd chosen something a little more permanent than live burial. Poetic, but risky.

"more permanent"...coffins aren't too quickly dug up.

P-90_177
December 4th, 2007, 04:01 AM
wow oh wow. this was such a cool episode. I loved seeing hiro go up against peter. I knew that he wouldn't just attack him. It seemed to be more a duel of words than a full on fight. gotta say that adam is awesome with that sword too. I was quite surprised that peter picked up on the idea of trying to influence people off parkman so easily but i suppose it was the only way he could counter it in the story.

As for Adam, Nathan and Nikki.............well i'm pretty sure Adam will be back somehow. Though i have to point out that there is only a limited amount of oxygen in that coffin so if he doesn't get out quick he will die, since isn't the running theory that if he and claire are dead for too long they won't heal? Nikki i doubt is dead personally that was too senseless. Unfortunately for nathan though i think that's the end for him. afterall those last words he said to peter just created this sense of the writers having them say goodbye.

MarshAngel
December 4th, 2007, 05:07 AM
None of this surprised me. They really left no option but to kill Niki and Nathan. If they killed Maya, it would have rendered her entire storyline pointless instead of simply annoying. For a moment there though, I was seriously excited by the possibility of her death.

As for Niki, she's been dead to me all season. Everthing about her life has been about tying up loose ends all season. She's been replaced by Elle as a hardass and by Monica as a mother and she's lost her status as a wife. Just another character given a meaningless life and death.

Peter, was as he has been for a while now, smackworthy. How many times do you have to hear from several different people that Adam is dangerous before you start plotting an out...just in case. so much power so little intelligence.

Seems Claire and her bio-Dad have equally foolish goals in life. Can't really see how they could think something positive would come of their revelations. But as much as I really resent the overused super-blood, if Nathan doesn't come back to life I am going to be beyond pissed. They have already ruined him by basically killing him twice already.

As for Adam, I really hope that tomb was in another time in the past. I was disappointed to see it was current era.

At the end there when I saw Sylar injecting Claire's blood i wondered if he had Mohinder's antibodies. If not, could he become a carrier for the virus although it no longer makes him ill?

Klenotka
December 4th, 2007, 07:31 AM
I didnīt expect Nathan being shot :( I thought that he gets the virus or so. I swear, if he dies, I quit watching. Why him? He, Matt and Noah were probably the only characters with brain and some goals in S2.
Tim Kring apologized to fans for mistakes. It would be HUGE mistake to kill off Nathan. I will never understand why they have chosen him instead of Maya or Monica. I mean, the new characters were most of the time pointless, yelling, not-fitting into story.
I think this show became too Peter-centric and everyone else have to go. No matter that he was acting like an idiot. If Nathan dies, I am not sure if his character can be still interesting for me. He and Nathan give to the show dynamics, their relationship was a core of S1.
I am not glad that they are killing off the old characters because of the new ones, who were badly introduced into the show.
I donīt want them use Claireīs blood again, it would be too obvious. But Matt survived with four bullets last year so I can think Nathan survive, too.
I hope he will. Because if not, I donīt think something will keep my interest in the show :( He literally saved the world twice now (both after Peter messed up) and they would kill him? No way!

I wasnīt too suprised or sad by Nikki to leave since her character had really not much to do this season.
the end with Nathan completely destroyed my impression of the episode and I canīt think about anything else now :( Even about the awesome scene with Nathan and Matt landing in Odessa.

cheese
December 4th, 2007, 09:43 AM
Pretty good episode, though it felt quite rushed.

I have a suspicion that the virus storyline isn't finished (if it is what the hell happens to Caitlin, the future she was in doesn't exist anymore!!). The remains of the virus being absorbed by Peter I think means that he's infected.
He's been walking a fine line this season, and we've seen hints of darkness. He almost killed Hiro, which I think indicates he's on quite the dark road.

Nathan was a shock, I knew something was going to happen, I knew the secret wasn't going to get out but I thought maybe Future Hiro would arrive and put a stop to it or something.

Adam's fate was nice. In some ways it would be good to leave him there, but with his history with both Hiro and Peter it could be great to see him back if they write it right.

The Nikki/Micah/Monica story was hopeless. It felt tacked on and took up valuable minutes that could have been spent on the main storylines. Nikki's death left me feeling blah. The writers are really screwing up Micah's childhood! Nikki got screwed this season.
I hope Monica sticks around. She has potential. But what the heck are they gonna do with Micah?

Sylar getting his powers back is much yayness, can't wait to see what madness he causes next. I hope they fill in exactly what happened to him next Volume.
I thought for a moment they were going to let Maya stay dead. She could be interesting, and a new house guest for the parkman/suresh household.

Claire was a bit blah too. I wanted to see at least one emo tear from her boyfriend before he flew away. Her plan was stupid. HRG's new deal seems like a backwards step, but who knows where they'll take that.

Mamma Petrelli being involved in her son's asssassination was a nice twist. She's still pure evil and we haven't seen what her power is yet. I'm presuming the assassin will be another new bad guy for the next Volume.

Overal not particularly satisfying as a season finale but a good continuation of the improved Heroes.

Hypochondriac
December 4th, 2007, 09:46 AM
Adam's not going to be buried alive forever eventually the oxygens going to run out. Rapid cellular regeneration isn't going to fix that:) I hope the writers realize that and don't bring him back. If he stays dead long enough there is no way he's coming back.

Nice way to kill him, remembered me of the movies Buried Alive :)

Still don't like the fact that Blood can heal a dead person. How the hell is a syringe of blood going to heal someone if it's not circulating :mckay:

ShadowMaat
December 4th, 2007, 11:42 AM
I'll make some allowances for the cobbled-together feel of the ep because I know they had to take a "regular" mid-season break and re-work it as a potential season finale, but that still doesn't excuse the general waste of characters or lack of development.

s09119
December 4th, 2007, 11:53 AM
I really, really liked this episode, despite the fact that I originally thought I'd hate it.

For one, it was really interesting to see how Nathan and Matt finally managed to turn Peter back to the good side, and Hiro desperately trying to stop him and Adam from releasing the virus. I can understand why Peter was duped, though I still wish he hadn't been; Adam had just saved his brother's life, sprung him from jail, and was going to help him rescue Caitlin. Of course he'd trust him.

Speaking of which, is Caitlin really safe? The virus was vaporized, more or less, but could some of it have still survived? I think it's unlikely, but not entirely impossible.

Meanwhile, I'm loving how Claire's story got wrapped up. West finally goes from creepy-kid to hero and tries to stop her, but he's realized by now that it's near impossible to stop a Bennet :D Interesting to see HRG return, but I think we'll be seeing Noah again sooner than we're led to believe.

So Maya's still alive? The one downer for me, I really wanted her gone. But at least Sylar's back in action, and Elle may defect to the good guys pretty soon.

And, at last: Nathan. Oh, one of my favorite characters is "dead"... but I doubt he's down for the count. Peter, not having been told not to meddle in the past, could easily pull a Hero-Kaito and jump back a few seconds to save his brother. Or he could try and give Nathan some of his blood... but I think that's being overused at this point. Ironically, though, I'm not as upset as I thought I'd be by Nathan's death, probably because it was believable.

Nathan has always been the political one, so of course he'd want to come clean in a political way; a press conference. The Compaby, obviously, has to stop this. However my one gripe with the scene is that Matt/Peter didn't hear the thoughts of the assassin, as they have been shown to be able to pick up thoughts without meaning to before.

Anyway, overall: ***

ToasterOnFire
December 4th, 2007, 11:58 AM
Some things that have been irking me:

-Was Maya supposed to have a purpose? Because as it stands, she didn't really do anything other than bringing Sylar to Mohinder. This awesome power of hers felt wasted. And why was she so trustful of Sylar over her brother? I understand her guilt over killing people, but I find it hard to believe that she would bond with him over that guilt enough to openly reject her brother.

-Peter was way too trustful of Adam. Why? Because they were in jail together? Because Adam's blood saved Nathan? Okay, but why would Peter ignore the warnings of Hiro and Matt, people who he has trusted in the past. Why would he even be willing to fight them over it?

-What happened to Peter's Irish gal? Still trapped in the future? Can one time travel to a future that no longer exists due to the actions of the present (the virus wasn't released after all)?

-Was Monica supposed to have a purpose? Granted, it was fun to see someone discover and develop their powers, but in the end she didn't really do anything except get Nikki killed. And the Micah/Nikki plotline didn't fit in well with the other stories either.

Trek_Girl42
December 4th, 2007, 12:08 PM
Am I the only one that missed & enjoyed Hiros "Flying Man" when he saw Nathan after they landed & you can just tell by the look of Nathans face that he was thinking "**** its him"
I LOVED that. :D

First the Good
Nathan flying Matt to Odessa. Hilarious.

Niki dead. Yeah, don't really care for her at all, never much did. I'm glad she's gone, lets focus on some more interesting characters. Actually, her entire storyline felt completely out of place this season.

Elle. Yes! She's finally cool and worth watching- I loved it when she went after Sylar. After this Kristen Bell had better be back whenever the show resumes.

Hiro burying Adam alive. Yikes! Awesome! These kinds of well-played shock moments are a huge part of what made season one so great- we haven't had nearly enough (or really any) in season two. Hiro was excellent all ep.

Sylar's back. Finally!

HRG heading back to the company/being mysterious.

Matt has been great all season, and continually so here.

Mama Petrelli being so horrible.

The bad/iffy
Maya didn't die.

West didn't die.

Nathan being shot.....well, this is iffy. I hope he lives, but I hope that he doesn't live by means of super-healing blood. If he lives by non-means of super healing blood, him getting shot can go on the good list. If he does live by means of super-healing blood, well, it'll go on the bad list, but I'll still be happy that he lives. He hasn't had much of anything to do this season, he needs to have something to do.

Peter is an idiot. I want season one Peter back.

Destroying the virus was pretty anti-climactic. However all that other stuff in the vault.....looks cool, I want to know what it all is.

The Micah/Niki/Monica story didn't fit into this ep (or season) at all. This just proved it.

The characters didn't really all meet up in the same way. They were too far flung from each other all season long. One of the cool things about season one was seeing them all come together eventually. Here it didn't really happen. Though it was good to see Matt, Nathan, Hiro, and Peter team up. (apparently Matt and Hiro had never met?)



Anyway, hopefully the writers can put this messy season behind them and work on creating a tighter, better storyline next season. And stop making characters dumb to serve the not-so-great plot. I think that was this season's greatest failing.

Lady Snow
December 4th, 2007, 12:10 PM
Am I really the only one who's not devastated by Nathan's death? He's an interesting character, but seeing the other heroes get by - particularly Peter - without him will be more interesting than watching Nathan pick up their - particularly Peter's - messes.

Also, I sincerely hope Caitlin is gone for good, with the eradication of that specific future. She was boring and mostly useless, except for brief moments of providing inspiration for Peter.

I originally thought Angela killed Nathan, but after seeing the HRG suggestion, I could buy that as well. I'd have to see that clip again to look at the body type of the assassin - unless they were somehow creative... ;)

Colonel Eriksen
December 4th, 2007, 12:11 PM
We don’t how Adam power works maybe his cells will make air for him a maybe he don’t need air because if he need air to survive why did the company use Hiro idea

I don’t think we have seen the last of him he be back
( I hope)

and Syler has his powers back

and the company so more bad

cant wait to see season 3

Lady Snow
December 4th, 2007, 12:13 PM
(apparently Matt and Hiro had never met?)


Yeah, that threw me as well. :) I guess they never really did - they were in Kirby Plaza together, but Hiro got banished to Kensei's time after Matt got shot, and since Hiro had teleported in and wasn't in the building with everyone, there was no opportunity.

Ugly Pig
December 4th, 2007, 12:13 PM
I wasn't all that surprised when Nathan went down (I know they wouldn't get to go through with going public about their abilities)... but damn. If he doesn't survive, I'll be very disappointed.

As for Niki's death... meh. Saw it coming since the moment Mohinder told her he was bringing her the vaccine last week. And I'm not really all that broken up about it.

Adam getting buried alive was a nice touch... if only they leave it alone.

ShadowMaat
December 4th, 2007, 02:02 PM
Destroying the virus was pretty anti-climatic. However all that other stuff in the vault.....looks cool, I want to know what it all is.
*resists urge to make a weather joke* Yes, if we're supposed to believe that this was really the end of the virus, it was very anti-climactic indeed. All that build-up and melodrama just so The Almighty Peter can freeze time and waltz over to collect the vial. Ho-hum.

I agree about the other stuff in the vault and I wish I could believe that they were going to do something with it, but I have a bad feeling that it was just there as a Mysterious Backdrop and will serve no purpose in any future plots. Which is a sad waste of props, IMO. The cards made me think of Gambit from X-Men... but it also put me in mind of that SCIFI miniseries Lost Room, where random everyday objects had strange powers tied to them. And the brain, of course, was from the Department of Mysteries. ;)

Ugly Pig
December 4th, 2007, 03:03 PM
Yes, if we're supposed to believe that this was really the end of the virus, it was very anti-climactic indeed. All that build-up and melodrama just so The Almighty Peter can freeze time and waltz over to collect the vial. Ho-hum.

From what I understand, the original plan was for Peter to get there too late and the vial to break, releasing the virus. The aired version was shot in case the writers strike would put a temporary end to the series, in which case, they'd want to tie up the story a little faster... The strike happened, so they did.

Personally, I was never that crazy about the whole virus storyline, so I'm all for getting it out of the way and starting Volume 3 with a clean slate.

Xicer
December 4th, 2007, 03:25 PM
This is probably a really stupid question but, why didn't Peter just teleport himself into the vault rather than going through all that trouble to open it?

Hypochondriac
December 4th, 2007, 03:38 PM
This is probably a really stupid question but, why didn't Peter just teleport himself into the vault rather than going through all that trouble to open it?

Because in season 2 he's an idiot. He could have phased through as well.

Or he didn't know where the vial was or what it looked liked. The company could have had several viruses in there. At least peter could have mentioned phasing through instead of ripping the vault open

knowles2
December 4th, 2007, 04:14 PM
Their a were lot of good a lot bad and a lot of potential.

First the good.

The entire peter and hiro fight scene, we are slowly seeing hiro evolving from naive fool to possible one of the smartiest characters on the show. Through it a shame he did not just sliced of peter head.
The nathan and portman landing scene was hilarious.
The monilog at the end, showing our heroes past actions, let hope they actually remember each other this time, it seem like everyone just forgot each other since last.
Nathan speech was a good, I so hope peter heals him in frontof all those tv cameras.

Now the bad

Peter stupid behaviour.
Syler still alive, seriously if he not dead in like the first episode of next season, I might give up on the entire show. He just so boring predictable.

Suresh why did he run to molly instead just picking that knife and stabbing syler right in the head, just to make sure he dead.

Maya, I so wanted her to become evil and take revenge on suresh and molly for killing her boyfriend.

Nikki I actually wanted her to start to get her life of track to learn to grow, but now she dead.


Now what I hope in the next season.

Peters saves nathan life demonstrating his powers to the tv cameras.

Clare goes public about the company.
A new enemy comes in and kill peter and syler in one single episode, as they battle each other, the new enemy just annihilate both of them single handedly, it be cool, and peter so deserve it for being so stupid.

We get suresh storyline back on track and fine out more about his dads research and how new so much about the abilities and how he knew how to fine him.

Bob dies, killed by his own daughter of cause.

Micah and Monaca goes on their super hero campagn to clean up their local neighbor hood.

And we hiro researching his dads pasted.

tombombadil
December 4th, 2007, 04:26 PM
once mohinder revived maya i knew it would be nathan, his story this season was really dull and his death was definite definite when he said they needed to hold a press conference cool assassination monologue though.
"there are certain organizations that don't want you to know the truth-" BLAM BLAM BLAM
that won't arouse suspicionat all:rolleyes:

Thunderstorm
December 5th, 2007, 02:47 AM
Dang! Maya didn't stay dead. Don't really care about Niki.

Go Hiro. I hope they leave Adam like that. Won't he eventually die because of lack of oxygen? Then come back. Die again. Repeat for infinity. That's worse than dying and staying dead if that's how it's gonna work. How sadistic of Hiro. :cool:

Could anyone tell who the trigger man was that killed Nathan? It wasn't HRG was it?

I liked Niki, I'm going to miss her. However I hated how they killed her. If she could hold up that half burning beam for Monica to get out then couldn't she have ducked under it after it fell back.

I got the impression Bob was the shooter. Nothing to really base that on but that was the 1st thing that jumped into my head.

As for the Hiro burying Adam alive - was I the only one that thought - another cliched result that's been done before, boring, move along. (Most recently that I remember - Alias series finale)


If they killed Maya, it would have rendered her entire storyline pointless instead of simply annoying.
I thought her storyline was pointless and annoying. And the best thing you could do is get rid of her and forget it ever happened. Most disappoint part of the ep. Although since I wanted it so badly, I figured it wasn't going to happen. :(


Peter, was as he has been for a while now, smackworthy. How many times do you have to hear from several different people that Adam is dangerous before you start plotting an out...just in case. so much power so little intelligence.

That was so ridiculous. I could understand the 1st time, Peter didn't know her. But after people you know and used to trust keep telling you he's bad, wouldn't you at least start to think twice about Adam's actions. Especially his reaction to Hiro. Hiro is not the type of guy to kill someone for no reason.

Aerilon
December 5th, 2007, 03:01 AM
Well, I never saw this ending coming, with Nathan's 'Death'. It does raise the question as to whether he was actually killed or not though... Some of you are saying he was killed, others are saying that he isn't dead...

We aren't going to actually find out until Volume Three. He was shot, we know this, it is now though, just whether he will survive from it or not. It all depends how that Blood works. There are (I think) three ways this could go...

1) Nathan Died, and will be dead in the next volume.
2) Nathan's body healed itself, using the blood that was already in his system.
3) Nathan will require more of the blood, in order to survive.

A note however, I noticed some of you saying Sylar now has the ability to regenerate... If Nathan doesn't heal from his gunshot wounds, then Sylar wont have the 'regeneration' ability.

Both Nathan & Sylar have the same blood within them, thus it may only 'heal' once. If it does, then Nathan (unless they get more Blood) is out of luck. Will also be interesting to see what happens now with Claire, as Nathan is her real Dad. If he is dead, will be nice to see her reaction, but at the same time, I hope Nathan isn't dead.

As for who shot Nathan... I don't think it was his Mom, nor do I think it was Noah. I can't put my finger on it, but you do see someone walking away, someone who I don't believe we've seen before. When Ms Petrelli was on the phone, I think she was talking to the person that did shoot Nathan. I don't think she done it herself.

To match that also, I hope she dies sooner or later too.. She is starting to annoy me, and I believe that she will play an evil role at some point in this shows future.

As for Niki, I didn't think she'd be the one to die, but then, I didn't really care about her. Like most, I don't really enjoy the Monica / Micah / Niki storyline.

As for Maya, I figured Sylar would kill her, didn't think she'd come back though.. Not sure if there is any real use for her to be quite honest. I think though, she will want revenge on Sylar for the death of her Brother.

I can only hope now, that this writers strike doesn't cancel the series, as there are (as always) questions to be answered.

Edit: Also, Adam had that coming, and I guess this would have been Hiro's way of punishing Adam. Killing him would have been too easy... My only question, is how did Hiro teleport Adam into a Coffin, that is made for a single person... There couldn't have been enough room for the both of them.

Also... Was it me, or when Peter destroyed that Virus, was there something... more to it? It almost seemed (or gave off the impression) that whatever Peter did, didn't actually destroy the Virus. Would it have gone into his DNA by any chance?

Also, in regards to Niki & Nathan's departure, I'm sure we'll find out before the next volume. If you think of other shows etc (think Lost) when Charlie was killed off, Dominic stated so in an interview that he would not be back.. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of this happening with these two either.

Klenotka
December 5th, 2007, 01:54 PM
There are lots of ways how to save Nathan. It doesnīt have to be blood of anyone. He just can be saved, normal doctors can do that. But if Peter would be able to heal him before everyone, it would be cool.
And Nathan still has some Adamīs blood in his system. It, of course, shouldnīt work permanently but it could make him stronger. But I doubt that writers will try to make some "blood research" to write it properly.
But I think kill off Nathan makes no sense, there are many reasons. For Petrelli chemistry, so much missed in S2. They are totally lost without each other. Peter is acting like an idiot most of the time and itīs Nathan who has to get him back. Nathan saved the world twice because he saved Peter. Now, we, Nathanīs fans, again, yes, again, have to wait and I am afraid that writers are really so stupid to write him off. There is so much potential. His relationship with Claire, his family...I just donīt get it.
And I canīt imagine how exactly they would leave him dead with so many options to save him around. Peter might, might heal him, who knows if his blood has healing powers. Or Claire might want to save him. And his mother, probably, will want to do something, even it looks like that she wasnīt too suprised. But I believe she will want to do anything to save him. He is still her son. Writers would have to come with damn good solution to leave him dead.

And characters like hysterical Maya or pointless Micah stay.

And Nikiīs presence was boring and pointless but get rid of a character when I donīt know what to do with her, itīs stupid.

I am really disappointed by Heroes this year, especially after finale. Why did they waste so much time for Claireīs flying with West, Peter with some woman in Ireland, when it has absolutely nothing to do with main storyline? :(

LoneStar1836
December 5th, 2007, 03:19 PM
I liked Niki, I'm going to miss her. However I hated how they killed her. If she could hold up that half burning beam for Monica to get out then couldn't she have ducked under it after it fell back.Well yeah I thought her death was stupid in the way they killed her, but afraid I'm not going to miss her.




As for the Hiro burying Adam alive - was I the only one that thought - another cliched result that's been done before, boring, move along. (Most recently that I remember - Alias series finale)Isn't burying immortals alive how it's supposed to be done. :P:D

I don't remember it being done on Highlander, but they did do it to Angel (the vampire) when they put him in a box and chunked him in the ocean.

How else was he supposed to get rid of him? I guess he could have cut his head off to see just what would happen but other than that, I can't see Hiro shooting him in the head. Anyway, I think Hiro wanted him to suffer.

Only other thing I can think of is to go throw him in a volcano. Not totally original but it's different. :D

s09119
December 5th, 2007, 03:22 PM
I disagree there. I loved the whole West/Claire and Peter/Caitlin thing, but maybe that's just me *shrug*

Anyways, I'd like to see Nathan survive, whether it be by Peter jumping back a few seconds and saving him or having him pull off a miraculous recovery another way (NOT involving the blood...).

tombombadil
December 5th, 2007, 05:13 PM
couldn't adam eventually escape by the coffin breaking down after a few years, or him continuously punching it and it just wearing down? i mean no matter how you look at it he's going to escape. why else would part 3 be called villains i mean there's the company, who's true intentions are still unknown, i'm thinking they're anti-heroic(they have good goals but their methods are wicked) , and Sylar but other than that who are the villains.

Xicer
December 5th, 2007, 05:17 PM
I don't think Adam would be able to get out of there for a very long time if at all. I'd imagine he'd have hard time breathing and would constantly die and come back to life. And considering how far down he is, it doesn't seem very likely.

tombombadil
December 5th, 2007, 05:39 PM
I don't think Adam would be able to get out of there for a very long time if at all. I'd imagine he'd have hard time breathing and would constantly die and come back to life. And considering how far down he is, it doesn't seem very likely.

i guess it depends on what the coffin is made of... but wouldn't he still die because the brain still needs oxygen to function? after you go a few minutes without it brain cells start to die, but they do kind of regenerate brain cells don't they? otherwise clair and peter would have huge holes in their brains from glass and a stick. AHH! the whole brain thing hurts my brain...wait...ow.

Xicer
December 5th, 2007, 05:54 PM
Yeah I was thinking that too but after the whole thing with Claire's blood this season, I wouldn't put a whole lotta faith in the brain. :p

Hypochondriac
December 5th, 2007, 05:59 PM
Something thats been bugging me. Why wasn't via laptop encrypted? I would have expected information like that to be protected. What if the computer got stolen?

SaberBlade
December 5th, 2007, 06:03 PM
Unless there is something in the brain, you'd still heal. That's what happened to Claire and Peter, an object stopped them from healing. Personally I think that even blowing off their head, the blood would regenerate it because that's what was needed for everyone else who's been healed by it.

Hiro was incredible. It was great to see him being able to master his powers like that, and for him to be so cruel as to bury Adam along side his father was just so dark side. I look forward to the new volume, because I think if Nathan does die we could see Peter being more.. well dark side.

I just wanted to skip the whole Maya/Nikki/cousin who's name I can't remember/ scenes but I was happy with how Nikki went boom.

Heaven
December 5th, 2007, 08:31 PM
what do you suppose the key Adam was reaching for for?

ShadowMaat
December 5th, 2007, 09:27 PM
How else was he supposed to get rid of him? I guess he could have cut his head off to see just what would happen but other than that, I can't see Hiro shooting him in the head. Anyway, I think Hiro wanted him to suffer.
Hiro was originally planning to kill him with the sword. What did you think he was going to do, run screaming up to Adam and then bonk him on the head with the scabbard and drag him off? ;)

I still think cutting off his head or otherwise destroying his brain is the only absolutely sure way to know that Adam is dead, but as for "what else could he do?" Let's see...

* Take him back to the Ice Age, strip him naked and leave him on a glacier. Heck, pour water on him first.
* Take him back and feed him to a dinosaur.
* Leave him on the moon (if Hiro can go that far).
* Drop him in the concrete when they're pouring the Hoover Dam.
* Drop him in a volcano.
* Weigh him down and drop him in the Marianas Trench.
* Bury him alive, but do it somewhere remote and maybe in a time when the general area is unpopulated.

There are a lot of creative options available and some of them could be quite vicious.

Thunderstorm
December 5th, 2007, 09:33 PM
* Drop him in the concrete when they're pouring the Hoover Dam.
* Drop him in a volcano.

I like these 2. Take him back to before Pompeii and his body could just be another one of the populous entombed.

LoneStar1836
December 6th, 2007, 12:01 AM
Hiro was originally planning to kill him with the sword. What did you think he was going to do, run screaming up to Adam and then bonk him on the head with the scabbard and drag him off? ;):P

That's what he initially was going to do, but after he teleported away with Adam, then why didn't he finish the deed? Didn't Adam have the sword in his hand? Hiro freezes time, takes it, chop chop, Adam's head rolls down the hill. :D


I still think cutting off his head or otherwise destroying his brain is the only absolutely sure way to know that Adam is dead, but as for "what else could he do?" Let's see...

* Take him back to the Ice Age, strip him naked and leave him on a glacier. Heck, pour water on him first.
* Take him back and feed him to a dinosaur.
* Leave him on the moon (if Hiro can go that far).
* Drop him in the concrete when they're pouring the Hoover Dam.
* Drop him in a volcano.
* Weigh him down and drop him in the Marianas Trench.
* Bury him alive, but do it somewhere remote and maybe in a time when the general area is unpopulated.

There are a lot of creative options available and some of them could be quite vicious.

#1 - Adam warms back up after freezing to death several thousand times, ends up surviving 10,000 some odd years and ends up irrevocably changing history.

#2 - Hiro gets eaten by the dino as well. :(

#3 - Maybe but then Hiro is exposed to space. I hope he held his breath. (I'm not sure he'd want to chance that.)Then Adam's body eventually floats away from the moon and earth's gravity pulls it back to earth. By some miracle his brain survives reentry and his whole body regenerates. :P Fine it's a possible solution but I had to give it a go. :D

#4 - Hiro takes cues from the mob now? :P

#5 Well I did think of that one. :D

#6 - He sinks down there and lands on the trashed Decepticons from Transformers who are then resurrected somehow (cuz you know there is going to be a second movie) and they bring him back to the surface. ;)

#7 - Just as long as it's in an area that will remain unpopulated and unused by civilization for eternity because it only takes one farmer or some guy on a backhoe to stumble across him and dig him up.

I think hiding him in an already establish cemetery cuts down on the risk of him being dug up.

But I still think he wanted Adam to suffer hence the coffin. Adam put his father in one, so he put Adam in one.

Steve_the_Wraith
December 6th, 2007, 03:40 AM
If she wasn't already dead I'd think Candice was impersonating HRG

Since she is dead, I think its another Hero with shapeshifting abilities

Hypochondriac
December 6th, 2007, 05:26 AM
If she wasn't already dead I'd think Candice was impersonating HRG

Since she is dead, I think its another Hero with shapeshifting abilities

Thats what I was thinking. Something was off with that seen didn't seem like the HRG we know

ShadowMaat
December 6th, 2007, 07:23 AM
#3 - Maybe but then Hiro is exposed to space.
Two words: space suit. :P I was making a list, not going into all the specifics of how each would work or what Hiro would have to do to try and make them work. I could build quite an ugly scenario for the Ice Age option. And a nasty one for the dino one as well. Several of them do have built-in loopholes, yeah, and a lot of options (including stuff I didn't list here) would depend on whether or not he can survive without oxygen, but then so does what Hiro did. I was simply pointing out that burying him alive in a popular cematary was NOT the only choice Hiro had available to him. ;)

s09119
December 6th, 2007, 12:30 PM
couldn't adam eventually escape by the coffin breaking down after a few years, or him continuously punching it and it just wearing down? i mean no matter how you look at it he's going to escape. why else would part 3 be called villains i mean there's the company, who's true intentions are still unknown, i'm thinking they're anti-heroic(they have good goals but their methods are wicked) , and Sylar but other than that who are the villains.

I highly doubt Adam could get out, especially with all the pressure pushing down on him from the dozen or so meters of dirt above him...

ShadowMaat
December 6th, 2007, 04:27 PM
I highly doubt Adam could get out, especially with all the pressure pushing down on him from the dozen or so meters of dirt above him...

Zombies do it all the time. :P

Lady Snow
December 6th, 2007, 05:20 PM
I highly doubt Adam could get out, especially with all the pressure pushing down on him from the dozen or so meters of dirt above him...

We are all obviously forgetting about "Kill Bill, Vol. 2." It can be done.

Skydiver
December 6th, 2007, 07:51 PM
finally got to see it. i could deal iwth niki dying. and peter. but man...the simple fact that sylar won't bloody well die is enough to put me off watching the show.

they have heros finding thier powers on a daily basis and they won't kill off this too powerful psycho????

Lord Iceman
December 6th, 2007, 09:41 PM
If Nathan
is not saved in the next Volume & combine that with the extreme stupidy of this episode I got no problem with switching to 24 same time different channel :cool: I let alot of things slide this Volume but this Episode was something else

This just in.

This is not a 24 thread.

In totally being hypocritical, when does it start?

Lord Iceman
December 6th, 2007, 09:47 PM
finally got to see it. i could deal iwth niki dying. and peter. but man...the simple fact that sylar won't bloody well die is enough to put me off watching the show.

they have heros finding thier powers on a daily basis and they won't kill off this too powerful psycho????

Sylar has had less screen time than a lot of other show's villains. In keeping with the Gateworld community (including other shows that have threads here and shows like them), a few examples would be Ra, Baal, Anubis, Lex Luther, yellow-eyes demon, etc. That seemed to work out just fine for everyone.

I do agree, however, if he's still around in season 5 or so and hasn't evolved into more than just an evil power-hungry guy, than it will get old. But here's to hoping we get the chance to find out.

jenks
December 7th, 2007, 04:54 AM
I like the way they gave Elle a taste of heroism, it's obvious she's going to switch sides. It's strange how Hiro has gone form the most easily likable 'hero' character to one of the most childish and unlikeable ones, imo.

MarshAngel
December 7th, 2007, 05:20 AM
Can't agree with you there. He was much more childish in season one than he has been this season. He was likable for that very reason, sheer child-like joy in his ability.

I think the worst he can be accused of this season is hero worship and child-like hope but his bahvior is a bit more mature, not a whole lot but some. If you're seeing him as childish now...maybe it's because you're finally tired of what he's always been. It get's tiresome after a while.

Trek_Girl42
December 7th, 2007, 10:42 AM
I don't know about anyone else, but I hope the whole Claire's-Blood-Can-Save-Everyone thing comes with a price. Obviously it's been awhile since Nathan had Adam's, but maybe there will be side-affects that take awhile to surface? That might make the whole idea a little more acceptable, and hopefully deter it from being used as a plot device on other characters. *shrugs* Though I don't want anything to happen to HRG.....

Dusk
December 8th, 2007, 06:09 AM
No no no no NO no NO NO NOOOO!!!!!

I am watching a completely different program to the one I once enjoyed so much. I'm so sad this show has nose-dived so soon! Everything sucked! There were so many out-of-character scenes, these people were aliens to me. Peter, for instance, should be popped in the head for having come so close to allowing Adam to access the Shanti virus. Gullible. Maya was played by Sylar... gee, I'd never have been able to tell if I were in her shoes. Gullible. Grrrr, I could go on...

And killing characters all over the place? Let's just kill off ALL the cast and start again! Why so many deaths in so short a span of time? But wait, there is a wonder drug that heals death, found in Claire's blood. Hoo-frakkin-rah!

Major players like the Company and the generations group are left with a cobbled and often confusing series of plots, many of them full of holes.

And the writers striked?? They should be FIRED! Kring needs to gather his scattered marbles and inject some of Claire's blood into the show before things just become repugnant.

Also note the next chapter is called "Villains"... the show is called "Heroes" and already the producers are changing course. I don't CARE about pathetic bad guys like Sylar and Adam, Bob and the Company, or the nasty mums and dads heroes club... they want a TRUE villain, one like the comic books, one that scares the crap out of us and isn't some good-looking, suave, pesky, arrogant fool!

All the bad things you guys said about this ep get my complete agreement. I'll be handing out greens like candy canes.

Heroes...Zeroes

s09119
December 8th, 2007, 02:36 PM
...does anyone even remember that the original idea was to have a different set of heroes every year? It's only because fans demanded they see more of the old ones that the writers were forced to come up with stretched plot lines for them all...

ShadowMaat
December 8th, 2007, 03:29 PM
...does anyone even remember that the original idea was to have a different set of heroes every year? It's only because fans demanded they see more of the old ones that the writers were forced to come up with stretched plot lines for them all...

If Maya and Alejandro are examples of the kinds of heroes we would have been subjected to, I'm quite happy to have the S1 gang back again. :P

flameling
December 8th, 2007, 04:06 PM
...does anyone even remember that the original idea was to have a different set of heroes every year? It's only because fans demanded they see more of the old ones that the writers were forced to come up with stretched plot lines for them all...

That would stink. They give us a good cast in season 1, and they don't even link anyhing to season 2. And that would mean Maya and Alejandro AND Monica almost every season. And can't they give us a new villain. Sylar cut open your head-super scary. What does Bob do, turn you into gold and give you to your family? That's one lucky family. And the company-it' just the mafia. Give us a villain who is god at what he does and has some moral judgement and only does it to survive.

Can't say there weren't some good scenes though. Nathan and Matt had a flying scene. Matt vs. Peter was cool. Bob's password being "Midas".:tealc: adam got what he deserved. And Hiro had some good scenes.

MarshAngel
December 8th, 2007, 04:14 PM
...does anyone even remember that the original idea was to have a different set of heroes every year? It's only because fans demanded they see more of the old ones that the writers were forced to come up with stretched plot lines for them all...

I remember. And I remember doubting their ability to do that for this very reason. There is an expectation for scripted dramas that no matter how you try, for ratings and financial reasons you have a hard time getting around..that is, the fact that people get attached to characters. In order to defeat that expectation they'd probably need to retitle the series completely every season and avoid carry over plots altogether...not too practical.

It just wasn't likely to happen from the beginning and the attempt to compromise on this fact is probably why this season was so weak. They just did not kill off or otherwise render unusable enough characters last season and continued to add. They'd have been better off with a replacement method. Kill two add two. and make the deaths count.

Sylar should have stayed dead. D.L. should have died at the end of s1. no more story for either.

Trek_Girl42
December 8th, 2007, 04:18 PM
If Maya and Alejandro are examples of the kinds of heroes we would have been subjected to, I'm quite happy to have the S1 gang back again. :P
Gotta agree. *sigh* I don't see any need to cast aside the old characters each season provided that they have a point to continue being there. If there's no room for a character in a story arc, I'd rather see them omitted for half a season or whatever length and then come back later when they have a purpose. This could easily have been done with Niki and Micah- they simply didn't belong in this volume. What the producers should have done was just not have them at all- and bring them back to a volume where they could actually become a meaningful part of the story. Honestly, this volume could have been cut in half, tightened up, and I think it would have been a really good as a six-eight episode arc. Get rid of Maya and Alejandro, get rid of the whole Ireland bit and the dumb boyfriend for Claire, reduce Hiro in Japan to no more than three episodes and there you go. Tighter story that's easier to follow that doesn't keep getting pulled away to the pointless bits. When you add up all the pointless material that was in there, it comes out to several episodes worth. What happened to Matt after the first few eps? After trapping his father he returned to being a footnote character, despite the fact that he had been the most interesting of the season up to that point.

Not to mention that by the end of the arc, the only new characters this season that felt like they had any point to them were Adam and Elle. Adam met his end and should stay that way- at least for a LONG time. Maybe a few seasons down the line have him return. Maybe- and again back to the point where characters have to have a point to being there. Elle.....after a disappointing first few episodes for her, I look forward to seeing more of her character. After that last episode she's got my interest.

Dusk
December 8th, 2007, 06:52 PM
Sylar should have stayed dead.

Here here! You know I heard a rumour that Sylar was supposed to die at the end of this episode. With actor Zachary Quinto being away filming Star Trek, continuing the second half of the season with him wouldn't have worked.

Then along came the writer's strike. With the extra time, keeping Sylar alive was viable again. So that was one of the script changes before the writer's strike. I believe Suresh, Maya and Elle were to have a final battle with Sylar at Isaac's apartment.

What a shame they wrote this out, as I may have enjoyed the episode so much more.

ShadowMaat
December 8th, 2007, 08:42 PM
They could have used the S1 characters as a way of introducing the S2 characters. They did a half-job of it as is, what with Micah introducing Monica, Claire introducing Stalkerboy West and Hiro introducing Kensei, but why stop it there? Matt could have found someone while working a case, Suresh could have dug up one of his father's files, Nikki could have met someone at the clinic, DL could have met someone at the fire station or on a call, Molly could meet someone at school, Nathan could meet someone at AA (heh), Peter could have found someone in Ireland- not that he'd have understood it, really, but at least it'd bring in some more foreign blood... hopefully with a real accent :P, instead of having the Wonder Twins find Sylar, have it be the other way around and Sylar happens upon them, using that as (please gods) a catalyst for his own growth as a character instead of remaining a one-dimensional villain waiting for his chance to strike. *yawn*

Would it have been too much of a coincidence for them all to have met another "hero?" Maybe, maybe not. It could be that like attracts like, or maybe that there are more specials out there than we might think, or it could be hinting at something larger; maybe there's a reason they're suddenly all meeting. Is there a higher power at work? Or maybe it's just another hero who can see the bigger picture and manipulate its contents to a certain degree.

There's so much potential here and so many different directions it could go. It's a shame to see it squandered on retreads and stunted characters.

s09119
December 10th, 2007, 06:56 PM
I'd love to see Sylar humbled. He was to some extent in "HtSaEM", but he came back just as bad. Maybe have Elle really beat him bad in a fight, just to show that for all his powers, he's not indestructable (I think part of the reason he doesn't think that now is that he only lost to Peter, who was just as strong as he was).

That way, Elle could grow into more of a heroine (something I'd like), and maybe Sylar could try and find a new path. It'd be interesting to try and see him connect with some of the other heroes and help them, but be shunned because they can only see the monster he was. That way, when he inevitably goes bad again, he'd have a reason to be fighting them.

nekoi
December 10th, 2007, 11:10 PM
Adding new characters is always difficult and at the rate they've been showing on this show, it's expected that the show would have been less as good had they offed all of the S1 cast.

The good thing about HEROES Origins being on hiatus is that we wont have like 30 more random characters showing up for one or two episodes, then randomly vanishing.

Matt G
July 22nd, 2008, 03:21 PM
1. I definately liked how the Peter and Hiro thing turned out. Took three to do it including his brother but he finallly got clued up!

2. Mohinder-Syler plotline, interesting but ouch that Syler's back in business.

3. Ouch that Nikki got toasted, suppose she was asking for it by losing her powers.

4. Like how Adam went out.

5. Not sure what's going on with HRG.

6. Bleep! Nathan! :(

jacky
November 13th, 2008, 10:15 PM
I LOVE HEROES! i seriously waited the whole hour in my seat waiting for it to keep on going. I love Hiro hes so precious! Peters hot! I cant wait for season 3 to come out! Thanks Cucirca i love you so much and am soooooo grateful. Just wish it didnt take so long but its worth it major.

garhkal
December 1st, 2015, 12:44 AM
Hot s**t! I liked what Hiro did to Adam.

It is a good work around for now.. But imo it would have been more impressive had he
A) tossed him into an active volcano.
B) buried him in cement
C) Tossed him into space.
or D) cemented his feet and dumped him in the ocean!


Why Nathan. :(

Agreed. Why nathan?!?!?


Its good to see Sylar with his powers back. And he can heal now too!

I don't think it means he will always be a quick healer.. Just that it restored his powers by removing the Shanti virus from his system.. As to his powers being back, i still think he needs some time before they come back full force.



And i wonder if syler will have the powers of the people he killed while not having his regular powers?

IMO nope.


Oh, and I take it folks caught the fact that Mama Petrelli murdered her own son? *takes deep breath* Yeah, whatever.


Well, we saw how she was in last season.. Willing to let MILLIONS die.. Nothing seems to have changed.


edit: oh yes, on the plus side, at least Elle isn't as much of a comical one-dimensional freak anymore.


True. BUT we saw what she was capable of with her electrical bursts earlier on.. So why was her power seeming to have been diminished??



2) The virus is gone just like that? I can let this one go; they had to film an alternate ending and perhaps this explains it. Either way, blegh.

There was an alternate ending where they failed on the DVD.. I actually liked it.



Speaking of which, is Caitlin really safe? The virus was vaporized, more or less, but could some of it have still survived? I think it's unlikely, but not entirely impossible.

With as 'bad' as the company is shown, it is safe to assume more than one vial of it exists.


This is probably a really stupid question but, why didn't Peter just teleport himself into the vault rather than going through all that trouble to open it?

Maybe they felt his control of his powers as flakey as they seem to be, might have had him teleport elsewhere..