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jelgate
November 11th, 2007, 01:52 PM
This episode reminded me of the scene where Sheppard went to go pick Ronan and Zelenka from their camping trip in Echoes. What would happen if Missing had involved Ronon and Zelenka on the run from Bol Kai.

P-90_177
November 11th, 2007, 02:01 PM
it would be pretty well the same ep really. Except zelenka would have pwned! :D

Trek_Girl42
November 11th, 2007, 02:01 PM
This episode reminded me of the scene where Sheppard went to go pick Ronan and Zelenka from their camping trip. What would happen if Missing had involved Ronon and Zelenka on the run from Bol Kai.
No way. I won't even entertain that thought. The women never get this kind of development on Stargate- stories like this have always focused on either male characters, or male characters and one woman. Here we actually got to *gasp* see two female characters get some character development/relationship development that actually spanned an entire episode! They never got this much screen time before! It's about time, because we've never seen a proper friendship develop between female characters on Atlantis, it's always been about the guys, and I find that kinda annoying- don't you? ;)

jelgate
November 11th, 2007, 02:10 PM
No way.?* I won't even entertain that thought.?* The women never get this kind of development on Stargate- stories like this have always focused on either male characters, or male characters and one woman.?* Here we actually got to *gasp* see two female characters get some character development/relationship development that actually spanned an entire episode!?* They never got this much screen time before!?* It's about time, because we've never seen a proper friendship develop between female characters on Atlantis, it's always been about the guys, and I find that kinda annoying- don't you? ;)I agree that woman of Stargate never get development, but I think Zelenka would have been more scarad than Keller and Ronon is a better fighter than Teyla. I think Ronon would have been more aggresive than Teyla who had a stealth attiude

Xaeden
November 11th, 2007, 02:36 PM
Well for starters, Ronon isn't the type of character to ever go anywhere without his gun, no matter how safe he thinks it is. However, if they found some way to write it out of the picture, there were only two Bola Kai guarding the gate. Rather then look for a distraction like Telya, he would've just charged them and things would be over before it begun.

jds1982
November 11th, 2007, 02:49 PM
Ronon would have shot the Bola Kai while Zelenka muttered something in Czech. The End.

jelgate
November 11th, 2007, 02:56 PM
Well for starters, Ronon isn't the type of character to ever go anywhere without his gun, no matter how safe he thinks it is. However, if they found some way to write it out of the picture, there were only two Bola Kai guarding the gate. Rather then look for a distraction like Telya, he would've just charged them and things would be over before it begun.The peril of Missing was that Teyla didn't have a gun. I'm not a writer, so lets say Ronon didn't have his gun, do you think he could have still taken out the Bol Kai at the gate

Xaeden
November 11th, 2007, 03:45 PM
gun. I'm not a writer, so lets say Ronon didn't have his gun, do you think he could have still taken out the Bol Kai at the gate[/QUOTE]

I addressed that in my previous post...


Well for starters, Ronon isn't the type of character to ever go anywhere without his gun, no matter how safe he thinks it is. However, if they found some way to write it out of the picture, there were only two Bola Kai guarding the gate. Rather then look for a distraction like Telya, he would've just charged themand things would be over before it begun.

It = his gun. So yes I think he would've been able to take those two Bola Kai out without his gun. Telya had an opportunity to try, but she wasted time thinking of a possible distraction and talking to Keller. Ronon would just ran at them, (without much of a word to Zelenka) jumped into the air, and came down kicking and punching while managing to avoid their weapons. Of course that's probably not exactly what he would've done, but the bottom line is that he is very adapt at disarming hostiles and is not the type to give a second thought to charging them.

Mitchell82
November 11th, 2007, 03:49 PM
gun. I'm not a writer, so lets say Ronon didn't have his gun, do you think he could have still taken out the Bol Kai at the gate

I addressed that in my previous post...



It = his gun. So yes I think he would've been able to take those two Bola Kai out without his gun. Telya had an opportunity to try, but she wasted time thinking of a possible distraction and talking to Keller. Ronon would just ran at them, (without much of a word to Zelenka) jumped into the air, and came down kicking and punching while managing to avoid their weapons. Of course that's probably not exactly what he would've done, but the bottom line is that he is very adapt at disarming hostiles and is not the type to give a second thought to charging them.
I don't think Ronon would have been the best character to be in this ep. It is fine the way it was done.

Xaeden
November 11th, 2007, 04:04 PM
I don't think Ronon would have been the best character to be in this ep. It is fine the way it was done.

I agree 100%, but the thread is a "what if," not a "what would be better..."

Mitchell82
November 11th, 2007, 04:06 PM
I agree 100%, but the thread is a "what if," not a "what would be better..."

Ok fine spoilsport.;)J/K.

blue-skyz
November 11th, 2007, 08:25 PM
If it was Ronon and he didnít have a gun, he would have armed himself with the Bola Kai weapons from the first fight. He could do some serious damage with those.

jelgate
November 11th, 2007, 08:29 PM
How do you propose that Ronon is able to get a hold of the Bola Kai's weapon

Detox
November 11th, 2007, 08:49 PM
Well, from Tabula Rasa, we know that Zelenka is fully capable of running around and beating people with sticks.

blue-skyz
November 11th, 2007, 08:55 PM
How do you propose that Ronon is able to get a hold of the Bola Kai's weapon
If they had attacked him (as they did Teyla) and he killed some, the weapons would be available... from the first fight.

KiLL3r
November 11th, 2007, 09:32 PM
If it was Ronon and he didnít have a gun, he would have armed himself with the Bola Kai weapons from the first fight. He could do some serious damage with those.

ronon always has a gun, and if he didnt he'd have a sword, and if he didnt have that hed have a dagger, and if he didnt have a dagger he'd have a knife, & another knife, & another knife, & another knife..................

point is ronon is always armed :ronan:

Mitchell82
November 11th, 2007, 10:51 PM
ronon always has a gun, and if he didnt he'd have a sword, and if he didnt have that hed have a dagger, and if he didnt have a dagger he'd have a knife, & another knife, & another knife, & another knife..................

point is ronon is always armed :ronan:

:lol: Good point.

WingedPegasus
November 12th, 2007, 12:34 PM
I agree that woman of Stargate never get development, but I think Zelenka would have been more scarad than Keller and Ronon is a better fighter than Teyla. I think Ronon would have been more aggresive than Teyla who had a stealth attiude

Not by much. I doubt Ronon could have taken out six Bolo Kai.

That's a different fighting style. Ronon knows martial arts, obviously, but with his strength he has very little need for stealth. Teyla, by virtue of her being a woman, simply can't be as strong as Ronon and needs to rely more upon stealth. The point of martial arts is for a "weaker" person to be able to take down a "strong" opponent. Stealth generally works better for this purpose. I have no doubt she would have been able to take care of those guard if they hadn't been discovered.


The peril of Missing was that Teyla didn't have a gun. I'm not a writer, so lets say Ronon didn't have his gun, do you think he could have still taken out the Bol Kai at the gate

It's possible. I forget how may there were, three of four maybe? If it was more than that, I don't think he could have. (Assuming he had no weapon, which, considering Ronon, is extrememly unlikely.)


Well, from Tabula Rasa, we know that Zelenka is fully capable of running around and beating people with sticks.

LOL! :D


ronon always has a gun, and if he didnt he'd have a sword, and if he didnt have that hed have a dagger, and if he didnt have a dagger he'd have a knife, & another knife, & another knife, & another knife..................

point is ronon is always armed :ronan:

Exactly. :ronan:

jelgate
November 12th, 2007, 04:21 PM
I am starting to regreat creating this thread

WingedPegasus
November 12th, 2007, 06:28 PM
I am starting to regreat creating this thread

Huh? Why? I thought it was a good discussion.

jelgate
November 12th, 2007, 06:32 PM
Huh? Why? I thought it was a good discussion.Everyone is saying that Ronon would just charge the Bola Kai at the gate. He is strong but not stupid. Ronon would have more common sense than attack the Bola Kai. The reason I am having regrets is because everyone is saying that Ronon would just charge the Bola Kai and take him out. He would do, I belive Dr. Keller would be performing a autosopy on Ronon. Yay:) my first thread made its second page. I now have a sense of accomplishment

Xaeden
November 12th, 2007, 08:44 PM
Well people are saying this because we've seen him do this before. For example, in Reunion he fought off three well trained soldiers and easily disarmed one who pulled out a knife (he slashed Ronon once, but it didn't slow Ronon down). The Bola Kai are not nearly as well trained. It would take him nothing to disarm one and use his weapon to take out the other. This is a guy who can go head to head with your run of the mill Wraith (without weapons) and win. A few primitive weapons aren't going to be the end of him, but even if you don't think he's a good enough fighter to disarm two brutes (which seems silly to most of us who have watched him on screen for the last two years) he would still have knives which he can either throw at them as he's running toward them or he can use in close range combat. Telya did a lot better against greater odds while using a simple stick - Watch Duet, where Ronon was training Atlantis' soldiers to fight using knives, it's one of his skills.

Jill_Ion
November 12th, 2007, 08:52 PM
Ronon = 6' 4"

Teyla = 5' 2" (ish?)

We know, from this ep and others, that Teyla can seriously kick butt, despite or because of her small stature. But her fighting tactics would have to be different than Ronon's.

I think Ronon would've circled around the Bola Kai at the gate and had Zelenka stay in the bushes, hidden, ready to run and use the DHD after Ronon took out the guards. But when the two other Bola Kai would have arrived, Ronon might or might not have been able to take them, depending upon whether he saw them in time or not.

Could be Ronon would be captured and Zelenka would be left all alone in the woods - hunted by the Bola Kai.

Very. Different. Ep.

jelgate
November 12th, 2007, 09:06 PM
Well people are saying this because we've seen him do this before. For example, in Reunion he fought off three well trained soldiers and easily disarmed one who pulled out a knife (he slashed Ronon once, but it didn't slow Ronon down). The Bola Kai are not nearly as well trained. It would take him nothing to disarm one and use his weapon to take out the other. He was angry when he attacked his friends in Reunion. It has been shown that anger can be a very helpful advantage in a fight. Totally different
This is a guy who can go head to head with your run of the mill Wraith (without weapons) and win.Runner showed Ronan with his Travler gun.
A few primitive weapons aren't going to be the end of him, but even if you don't think he's a good enough fighter to disarm two brutes (which seems silly to most of us who have watched him on screen for the last two years) he would still have knives which he can either throw at them as he's running toward them or he can use in close range combat. Telya did a lot better against greater odds while using a simple stick -The whole point of this thread is if Zelenka replaced Keller and if Ronan replaced a weaponless Teyla. For the sake of arguing, Ronon should only have the forest as his weapon?*
Watch Duet, where Ronon was training Atlantis' soldiers to fight using knives, it's one of his skills.I have seen Duet. Don't you think its a little different when Ronon is showing Sheppard his fight moves versus a real fight. The soilders?* weren't trying that hard.

nekoi
November 12th, 2007, 10:51 PM
This episode reminded me of the scene where Sheppard went to go pick Ronan and Zelenka from their camping trip in Echoes. What would happen if Missing had involved Ronon and Zelenka on the run from Bol Kai.

Ronan would have overpowered them with a plenty of blades and his epic gun.

That episode would last... say... 15 minutes? XD:ronan:

jelgate
November 12th, 2007, 10:58 PM
Ronan would have overpowered them with a plenty of blades and his epic gun.That episode would last... say... 15 minutes? XD:ronan:You obvisouly haven't read the whole thread. I was proposing a weapon-less Ronon because Teyla had no weapons.

Xaeden
November 12th, 2007, 10:58 PM
He was angry when he attacked his friends in Reunion. It has been shown that anger can be a very helpful advantage in a fight. Totally different

His anger gave him the skill to disarm a trained soldier where as he wouldn't otherwise have the skill to disarm an untrained brute if he wasn't angry? I don't get that.


Runner showed Ronan with his Travler gun.

I don't believe I said he ran around fighting Wraith in unarmed combat during his time as a Runner. But since you brought it up, persumably he did not find the gun the first time he first ran through the gate and had to deal with a Wraith hunting him. We know he didn't go back to Sateda so he had no real weapons to fight this Wraith and therefore had to depend on his natural skills and whatever he could find. After he killed the first one though he could just make use of their stunners until he found his gun. Anyway, what I was refering to is that Wraith have super Human strength and yet Ronon is so strong himself that it doesn't matter unless the Wraith is abnormally strong for his/her race. So, the guy can easily overpower most Humans.


The whole point of this thread is if Zelenka replaced Keller and if Ronan replaced a weaponless Teyla. For the sake of arguing, Ronon should only have the forest as his weapon?

Well when you talk about replacing characters in a specific situation one assumes that it's fine to discuss how their personalities would effect such a situtation and Ronon's personality is so different from Telya's than it's worth nothing that it's massively out of character for him to go anywhere weaponless. It was one thing to assume he somehow lost the gun, but unless there's a device outside the Stargate that teleports everything on him away there's just no way he won't have his knives. Even so I'll go down that line of reasoning with you - If you remember, Telya had a knife with her when she walked through the gate so at the very least you have to give Ronon one knife as well and then we are back to him being skilled in knife fights. Of course he's skilled in many different styles of combat and I maintain that he would have no problem disarming and killing two armed Bola Kai even if he didn't have a single weapon.


*I have seen Duet. Don't you think its a little different when Ronon is showing Sheppard his fight moves versus a real fight. The soilders?* weren't trying that hard.

I was not pointing to the actual practice fight scenes, just the dialogue that showed he was skilled in knife fights to the point where he could train others how best to use them in a fight.

DEX (as he and the soldier duel): Thigh, strip, cut, lift, cut ... and finish. (By this time he has the soldier's arm twisted behind his back and has taken the knife off him and is holding it to his throat.)

DEX (to one of the soldiers): Alright Ė dismembering the defeating arm. Two knives. (The soldier makes his first move.) Slice, cut!

nekoi
November 13th, 2007, 01:32 AM
You obvisouly haven't read the whole thread. I was proposing a weapon-less Ronon because Teyla had no weapons.

I would find a weaponless Ronon to be unbelievable. Sorry.

jelgate
November 13th, 2007, 07:35 AM
RoundII jelgate vs Xaeden
His anger gave him the skill to disarm a trained soldier where as he wouldn't otherwise have the skill to disarm an untrained brute if he wasn't angry? I don't get that.First of all,?* how do you know that the Bola Kai are untrained. The Roman Enpire though the Mongolians were savages.?* and lost their empire because of it.?* If you have a personal grudge, against someone, you will fight harder against a person to see they get there punishment.
I don't believe I said he ran around fighting Wraith in unarmed combat during his time as a Runner. But since you brought it up, persumably he did not find the gun the first time he first ran through the gate and had to deal with a Wraith hunting him. We know he didn't go back to Sateda so he had no real weapons to fight this Wraith and therefore had to depend on his natural skills and whatever he could find. After he killed the first one though he could just make use of their stunners until he found his gun. Anyway, what I was refering to is that Wraith have super Human strength and yet Ronon is so strong himself that it doesn't matter unless the Wraith is abnormally strong for his/her race. So, the guy can easily overpower most Humans.Its one thing to overpower one Wraith on a planet. Its different to overpower numerous people.
Well when you talk about replacing characters in a specific situation one assumes that it's fine to discuss how their personalities would effect such a situtation and Ronon's personality is so different from Telya's than it's worth nothing that it's massively out of character for him to go anywhere weaponless. It was one thing to assume he somehow lost the gun, but unless there's a device outside the Stargate that teleports everything on him away there's just no way he won't have his knives. Even so I'll go down that line of reasoning with you - If you remember, Telya had a knife with her when she walked through the gate so at the very least you have to give Ronon one knife as well and then we are back to him being skilled in knife fights. Of course he's skilled in many different styles of combat and I maintain that he would have no problem disarming and killing two armed Bola Kai even if he didn't have a single weapon.Agreed, Ronon should have had one knife. I believe there were more than two Bola Kai gurading the gate. But don't you think as soon as the Bola Kai saw someone charging them, nearby Bola Kai would come at them. Ronon is stong but not invincible.
I was not pointing to the actual practice fight scenes, just the dialogue that showed he was skilled in knife fights to the point where he could train others how best to use them in a fight.DEX (as he and the soldier duel): Thigh, strip, cut, lift, cut ... and finish. (By this time he has the soldier's arm twisted behind his back and has taken the knife off him and is holding it to his throat.)DEX (to one of the soldiers): Alright Ė dismembering the defeating arm. Two knives. (The soldier makes his first move.) Slice, cut!No arguement there:)
I would find a weaponless Ronon to be unbelievable. Sorry.Realastic or not, thats the topic of this thread.

Xaeden
November 13th, 2007, 10:25 AM
RoundII jelgate vs XaedenFirst of all,?* how do you know that the Bola Kai are untrained. The Roman Enpire though the Mongolians were savages.?* and lost their empire because of it.?* If you have a personal grudge, against someone, you will fight harder against a person to see they get there punishment.

Because I saw them fighting Telya. They have no real skill. They just charge and swing their weapons around and eventually enough of them will overpower you.


Its one thing to overpower one Wraith on a planet. Its different to overpower numerous people.

Two people, not numerous.


Agreed, Ronon should have had one knife. I believe there were more than two Bola Kai gurading the gate. But don't you think as soon as the Bola Kai saw someone charging them, nearby Bola Kai would come at them. Ronon is stong but not invincible.

They made a point to only show two Bola Kai on screen, so we can't assume there were dozens of them hiding in the bushes just to make it harder for Ronon. If there were more Bola Kai nearby you'd think they would've called out when they spotted Telya and Keller, but instead they silently ran after them and then went back to beat on a drum to summon all of them from across a large area. Thus suggesting that there were none within range of the gate that would hear Ronon clashing with two of them (even if there were, Ronon should have time to kill them and dial the gate). Remember they didn't originally have people guarding the gate and Telya and Keller managed to get all the way to the village without seeing a single Bola Kai. But after that two of them just happened to wander to the gate for whatever reason. So everything we saw and know suggests there wouldn't have been many around.

WingedPegasus
November 13th, 2007, 01:07 PM
If I may interject my unprofessional opinion, Teyla was also taking into consideration the safety of Dr. Keller. I doubt that Zelenka would be as (forgive me) tactically incompetent or frightened as she was, and even if he was, Ronon would just tell him to buck up and then take out the Bolo Kai. Therefore it may not be so much a question of the ability to take out the guards, but the inclination.

Xaeden
November 13th, 2007, 02:51 PM
If I may interject my unprofessional opinion, Teyla was also taking into consideration the safety of Dr. Keller. I doubt that Zelenka would be as (forgive me) tactically incompetent or frightened as she was, and even if he was, Ronon would just tell him to buck up and then take out the Bolo Kai. Therefore it may not be so much a question of the ability to take out the guards, but the inclination.

I completely agree. Telya obviously had the ability to take out those two as well, but she was wasting time trying to calm Keller and thinking up a distraction rather than charge them head on as that was the more reasonable tactic. She had no idea of their skill level at this point and she didn't want to leave Keller while she ran ahead to fight them, so the episode went in a completely different direction. However, Ronon would've just charged them without a second thought and based on what we saw later we know that they wouldn't have offered much of a challenge for him.

Avenger
November 13th, 2007, 05:45 PM
You obvisouly haven't read the whole thread. I was proposing a weapon-less Ronon because Teyla had no weapons.

You can propose it, but I seriously doubt Ronon would be going anywhere without his side arm.

nekoi
November 13th, 2007, 06:48 PM
You can propose it, but I seriously doubt Ronon would be going anywhere without his side arm.

Or his bajillion hidden blades.

LiLTiff17
November 13th, 2007, 07:00 PM
ronon always has a gun, and if he didnt he'd have a sword, and if he didnt have that hed have a dagger, and if he didnt have a dagger he'd have a knife, & another knife, & another knife, & another knife..................

point is ronon is always armed :ronan:
So the question should be, what if the Bola Kai somehow managed to steal Ronons clothes? (with his weapons) And Zelenka had to go after the Bola Kai with his sticks in order to retrieve them. :D