The implications of Time Travel (Continuum spoilers)

[kymeric]

With the availiable spoilers we know that Ba'al somehow changes the past in his favor. The only known working time machine is the Jumper Janus made from sga 'before i sleep' sg1's 'good to be king' and 'moebeus. Ba'al presumably gets ahold of the technology or the time machine itsself through his Trust. Now we all know that AU stories are reset eventually, but there is a larger implication. The Guaould may still have that technology, others might have that technology because of the guaould.

Because of this shouldnt the humans of earth take steps to protect the timeline and history? Using the time jumper or the recreated technology shouldnt earth set up hidden bases in the past to keep track of the flow of history. And at different eras too, pre ancient, then pre guaould and just prior to other large historical events in case history is changed one group will survive the changes and be able to take steps to repair history.

Still using the ancient stargate to explore, using some human version of the time jumper to travel, i could see it....

[fugiman]

And thats how Timecop came to be

[fugiman]

and then the spin off TV show

[SaberBlade]

if i've got my continuities correct, there should actually be time jumpers. One SG1 left in the past, then it was buried and recovered then used by alternate SG1 to go back again. Since the first was still buried (as they arrived 5 years after SG1 did) the first jumper was still there, then there was that second jumper so if it was buried, then those two time jumpers would have been recovered with the ZPM and then they go along with the jumper SG1 currently had.

--

Time travel is very hit and miss. Using a solar eclipse could sent you forward or back an unknown amount of time and the Time Jumper only works in gaps of a few thousand years so it's not going to be possible for the SGC or any human organisation to police time. We aren't even sure how Baal ends up in the past so it could have happened by accident and he just took advantage of the situation.

Time bases wouldn't work because you can't exactly put humans in the past without them doing something that would screw up time especially when they don't have a complete record of everything that's happened. Some form of temporal shielding would be needed.

[VSS]

I've never liked keeping track of all those PJs from Moebius, but didn't the geeky Sam say that they were going to destroy their PJ? (How, we don't really know). So there's one down.

And the first SG team used the PJ from Maybourne's planet in IGTBK. That wasn't ever put back, to my knowledge. So did that whole ep just not happen, either? (Too bad, by then I was starting to like the guy). That PJ would then finally be recovered in the dig along with the ZPM and the tape.

So they really are down to just one PJ.

Plus, wouldn't inanimate objects suffer entropic cascade? Just wondering. Maybe that's what happened to geeky Sam's PJ.

[kirkeastmetn]

I've never liked keeping track of all those PJs from Moebius, but didn't the geeky Sam say that they were going to destroy their PJ? (How, we don't really know). So there's one down.

And the first SG team used the PJ from Maybourne's planet in IGTBK. That wasn't ever put back, to my knowledge. So did that whole ep just not happen, either? (Too bad, by then I was starting to like the guy). That PJ would then finally be recovered in the dig along with the ZPM and the tape.

So they really are down to just one PJ.

Plus, wouldn't inanimate objects suffer entropic cascade? Just wondering. Maybe that's what happened to geeky Sam's PJ.

All those jumpers were from alternate realities, so the current reality only has the one time jumper.

Cause it works like this;

SG1 goes back in time gets caught all killed except for Daniel/rebellion succeeds/gate taken/no proper SGC in future/jumper cloaked and left where it is.

SGC started up cause of tablet & tape/jumper found/used to go back in time to egypt/rebellion succeeds/gate not taken/proper SGC created in future/jumper destroyed so as not to pollute timeline

Timeline now - Proper SGC still here/jumper found on correct planet{"its good to be king" episode}.Jumper still intact and no need to go back in time to retrieve ZPM.

As for the movie continuum, its not AU it AR, there are an unlimited amount of AR's, but theres only so many AU's.

An alternate universe film is impossible as its a different universe altogether one in which we don't exist, example of alternate universe is the episode with those bugs that were invisible unless a devce was touched. Now a parallel universe film is entirely possible, because parallel universe is just another word for alternate reality. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paralle...erse_(fiction)

Seeing as this film deals with AR/PU, the obvious way to prevent it is to go back in time to the place/point were Ba'al gets the technology/or whoever used the technology and stop them.

Obviously this film is going to tie in with the third series, we'll just have to see what kind or reprecussions the SG universe will have to deal with.

[immhotep]

They should go back in time and stop the wraith awakening, let the city rise, take many many more nukes and naquadah reactors and hide out until the deadalus is in the galaxy, then just go around and beam nukes in to every ship, without detonating them at the time. Then flick the switch and wipe out every hive in the galaxy at the same time.

[fugiman]

They should go back in time and stop the wraith awakening, let the city rise, take many many more nukes and naquadah reactors and hide out until the deadalus is in the galaxy, then just go around and beam nukes in to every ship, without detonating them at the time. Then flick the switch and wipe out every hive in the galaxy at the same time.

That would be to easy

[Daniel Jackson]

With the availiable spoilers we know that Ba'al somehow changes the past in his favor. The only known working time machine is the Jumper Janus made from sga 'before i sleep' sg1's 'good to be king' and 'moebeus. Ba'al presumably gets ahold of the technology or the time machine itsself through his Trust. Now we all know that AU stories are reset eventually, but there is a larger implication. The Guaould may still have that technology, others might have that technology because of the guaould.

We don't know that it will be the time-traveling Puddle Jumper that Ba'al uses to go back in time. Possible, but not confirmed. Personally, I prefer to be surprised on how he goes back in time. Also, this isn't an alternate universe story, it's a time travel story.

Because of this shouldnt the humans of earth take steps to protect the timeline and history? Using the time jumper or the recreated technology shouldnt earth set up hidden bases in the past to keep track of the flow of history. And at different eras too, pre ancient, then pre guaould and just prior to other large historical events in case history is changed one group will survive the changes and be able to take steps to repair history.

Carter was very much against using the Puddle Jumper in "Moebius," so it's probable that most everyone else is too. I see them setting it aside and reserving it for reversing some catastrophic event. For example, if the Ori invade and whipe out Earth, the few survivors could use it to go back in time and start a series of events that would consequently have Earth prepared for that invasion without significantly altering history.

Still using the ancient stargate to explore, using some human version of the time jumper to travel, i could see it....

It's possible, but it's just as possible that Ba'al came up with his own time machine, discovered yet another Ancient time machine, or simply modified a Stargate to send him back in time so that he could come out of Earth's Stargate after it was uncovered in Ancient Egypt.

if i've got my continuities correct, there should actually be time jumpers. One SG1 left in the past, then it was buried and recovered then used by alternate SG1 to go back again. Since the first was still buried (as they arrived 5 years after SG1 did) the first jumper was still there, then there was that second jumper so if it was buried, then those two time jumpers would have been recovered with the ZPM and then they go along with the jumper SG1 currently had.

At the end of "Moebius, Part 2," there would be three Time Jumpers.

Time Jumper 1: Original SG-1's Jumper.
Time Jumper 2: Bizarro SG-1's Jumper. Carter mentioned destroying it, but how do you destroy a Puddle Jumper when the most advanced weapons they had were guns and staff weapons? It's possible they buried it next to the original. Then again, since Bizarro Jack has the Ancient gene, both Jumpers could have been relocated.
Time Jumper 3: Original (more or less) SG-1's Jumper that never went back in time.

Jumpers 1 and 2 could have been destroyed or lost to history, but they at least existed in ancient Egypt.

Time travel is very hit and miss. Using a solar eclipse could sent you forward or back an unknown amount of time and the Time Jumper only works in gaps of a few thousand years so it's not going to be possible for the SGC or any human organisation to police time. We aren't even sure how Baal ends up in the past so it could have happened by accident and he just took advantage of the situation.

Time bases wouldn't work because you can't exactly put humans in the past without them doing something that would screw up time especially when they don't have a complete record of everything that's happened. Some form of temporal shielding would be needed.

Well said.

[kirkeastmetn]

At the end of "Moebius, Part 2," there would be three Time Jumpers.

Time Jumper 1: Original SG-1's Jumper.
Time Jumper 2: Bizarro SG-1's Jumper. Carter mentioned destroying it, but how do you destroy a Puddle Jumper when the most advanced weapons they had were guns and staff weapons? It's possible they buried it next to the original. Then again, since Bizarro Jack has the Ancient gene, both Jumpers could have been relocated.
Time Jumper 3: Original (more or less) SG-1's Jumper that never went back in time.

Jumpers 1 and 2 could have been destroyed or lost to history, but they at least existed in ancient Egypt.

All 3 jumpers you mentioned above are the same jumper.

Firstly at the start of Moebius, Part 1, the jumper used is the one found on the planet first seen in "It's good to be king".

This first jumper was used first to go back in time to grab ZPM, jumper cloaked, couldn't be retrieved as it was surrounded by Jaffa/gate taken by Ra so no proper SGC in future.

Flash-forward to present timeline with geeky Daniel & Carter, who are shown a jumper that was discovered cloaked in Egypt. It has since been decloaked. < This is the same jumper that was used by SG1 to go back in time the first time around.

They use jumper to go back in time and this time they keep the gate on earth/and timeline is set back to normal. Carter suggests they destroy the jumper as it would contaminate the timeline.

Now seeing as jumper 1, was actually used to go back in time twice, and on the second trip was destroyed, then there is only one time jumper and thats the one still left on the planet first seen in "It's good to be king".

[Daniel Jackson]

All 3 jumpers you mentioned above are the same jumper.

I'm aware of this. When I say Jumpers 1, 2, and 3, I mean from different timelines, not that they're different ships.

Firstly at the start of Moebius, Part 1, the jumper used is the one found on the planet first seen in "It's good to be king". This first jumper was used first to go back in time to grab ZPM, jumper cloaked, couldn't be retrieved as it was surrounded by Jaffa/gate taken by Ra so no proper SGC in future. Flash-forward to present timeline with geeky Daniel & Carter, who are shown a jumper that was discovered cloaked in Egypt. It has since been decloaked. < This is the same jumper that was used by SG1 to go back in time the first time around.

Right, I'm with you so far.

They use jumper to go back in time and this time they keep the gate on earth/and timeline is set back to normal. Carter suggests they destroy the jumper as it would contaminate the timeline.

They went back in time to a point about five years after the original SG-1 arrived, so that effectively left SG-1 with two Puddle Jumpers: Original SG-1's and Bizzaro SG-1's that arrived five years later.

Now seeing as jumper 1, was actually used to go back in time twice, and on the second trip was destroyed, then there is only one time jumper and thats the one still left on the planet first seen in "It's good to be king".

Now here's where you don't make sense. Let's assume that Bizarro SG-1 destroyed their Puddle Jumper since it was badly damaged and they had succeeded in restoring the timeline. They still have Original SG-1's Puddle Jumper to deal with. In the final timeline, the Puddle Jumper found in "It's Good to be King" would be at Area 51, not on Maybourne's planet.

[kirkeastmetn]

They went back in time to a point about five years after the original SG-1 arrived, so that effectively left SG-1 with two Puddle Jumpers: Original SG-1's and Bizzaro SG-1's that arrived five years later.

But the bizarro SG-1 team used the original SG-1 jumper to do so, so the two jumpers are one in the same. < so although 5 years ago the original SG-1 jumper may've existed in Egypt, its no longer where it was because the timeline has been altered.

Now here's where you don't make sense. Let's assume that Bizarro SG-1 destroyed their Puddle Jumper since it was badly damaged and they had succeeded in restoring the timeline. They still have Original SG-1's Puddle Jumper to deal with. In the final timeline, the Puddle Jumper found in "It's Good to be King" would be at Area 51, not on Maybourne's planet.

What i mean is that;

When original SG-1 went back in time, they left the jumper cloaked in Egypt.

Bizarro SG-1 then used that jumper to go back in time, they then destroy that jumper. < This is pivotal as it negates this jumper and original SG-1's jumper as the Bizarro and original SG-1's jumpers are one in the same.

Both are negated as the two timelines will eventually cross and intersect, that happens after the rebellion succeeds.{It happens at this point as this is the earliest point in which both timelines have the same outcome, and its before the gate is taken so as to preserve the new timeline}

So thats when both jumpers are negated out of existence from those timelines.

Also the reason why the jumper was destroyed wasn't because the of jumper being damaged, it was because Carter made it clear that leaving it would pollute the timeline, so they destroyed it.

And yes to your last point, i forgot they moved the jumper.

[Daniel Jackson]

But the bizarro SG-1 team used the original SG-1 jumper to do so, so the two jumpers are one in the same. < so although 5 years ago the original SG-1 jumper may've existed in Egypt, its no longer where it was because the timeline has been altered.

You're right, they're both the same ship. However, you have to think fourth dimensionally. Think of it like this... if you go back in time five days, would there be one of you, or would there be the you who hasn't gone back in time yet and then the you from five days into the future? The latter is what would occure. This is how there are two Time Jumpers in Ancient Egypt. The Time Jumper that Bizarro SG-1 shows up in is Original SG-1's Jumper, but of the future, which means Original SG-1's Jumper would still be out in the desert where original SG-1 left it when they first arrived.

When original SG-1 went back in time, they left the jumper cloaked in Egypt.

Right.

Bizarro SG-1 then used that jumper to go back in time, they then destroy that jumper. < This is pivotal as it negates this jumper and original SG-1's jumper as the Bizarro and original SG-1's jumpers are one in the same.

Yes, they are the same Jumper, but there's two of them. Bizarro SG-1 ariving in the Time Jumper from the future does not cause the Ancient Egypt counterpart to blink out of existance. There would be two Jumpers, the Ancient Egypt counterpart and the present-day counterpart.

Both are negated as the two timelines will eventually cross, that happens when the rebellion succeeds.{It happens at this point as this is the earliest point in which both timelines are similar} So thats when both jumpers are negated out of existence from those timelines.

Why would they poof out of existance? That is inconsistant with SG-1's portrayal of time travel.

Also the reason why the jumper was destroyed wasn't because the of jumper being damaged, it was because Carter made it clear that leaving it would pollute the timeline, so they destroyed it.

How did they know for sure that the timeline was fully restored? Obviously the original Jumper (the one that had been there for five years) wouldn't be discovered until the present, so they'd only have to destroy the damaged Jumper.

[kirkeastmetn]

You're right, they're both the same ship. However, you have to think fourth dimensionally. Think of it like this... if you go back in time five days, would there be one of you, or would there be the you who hasn't gone back in time yet and then the you from five days into the future? The latter is what would occure. This is how there are two Time Jumpers in Ancient Egypt. The Time Jumper that Bizarro SG-1 shows up in is Original SG-1's Jumper, but of the future, which means Original SG-1's Jumper would still be out in the desert where original SG-1 left it when they first arrived.

Why would they poof out of existance? That is inconsistant with SG-1's portrayal of time travel.

I don't have answers for the other parts as you've made a very good case that i quite honestly cannot answer, however i can answer this part.

Remember what happened in unending when Teal'c was sent back in time, but there was only one of him, that is because of temperal displacement, when you take a person/object out of a timeline and place it/them in another timeline, only one exists. Don't ask me why as i'm not a science buff. < Its probably just some rule SG writers made up anyway. So thats my reason for saying that both jumpers would've been destroyed, as only one can exist.

[Daniel Jackson]

Remember what happened in unending when Teal'c was sent back in time, but there was only one of him, that is because of temperal displacement, when you take a person/object out of a timeline and place it/them in another timeline, only one exists. Don't ask me why as i'm not a science buff. < Its probably just some rule SG writers made up anyway. So thats my reason for saying that both jumpers would've been destroyed, as only one can exist.

In "Unending," there was no time travel. Instead, there was time dialation which is quite different. Carter threw up a time dialation field around Odyssey with time moving extremely fast within the field. This gave the illussion that time outside the field was moving very slowly when it was time in the field that was moving very fast. When Carter finally found a solution, she threw a time dilation field around Teal'c, restoring him to normal time, I believe. She then threw the ship's time dialation field in reverse, effectively making time (within the field) go backward to a few minutes before the field was originally activated. When Odyssey returned to normal time, Teal'c was free to get to Carter with her solution that would save the ship. Now, why is there only one Teal'c? He didn't go back in time, but rather, time simply moved backward. Since Teal'c was isolated, there wasn't a Teal'c to revert. If we saw time reverse inside, we would have seen everyone interacting with Teal'c backwards, only he's not there. lol That's why when time returned to normal, Teal'c was missing from the bridge. I hope this all makes sense.

All SG-1 time travel episodes have shown that if a person or object goes back to a time where that person or object still exists, there are now two. "Unending" doesn't follow this logic, because it's not time travel, it's time dialation. It is also the only episode to show time dialation go into reverse, so the circumstances were unique.