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GateWorld
October 23rd, 2007, 11:35 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/405.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/405.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/405.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">TRAVELERS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 405</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Colonel Sheppard is captured by the inhabitants of a generational ship and their beautiful leader, who wish to use his ability to use Ancient technology for their own ends.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/405.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Sweetsong
October 26th, 2007, 07:02 PM
Excellent episode, one question. Was it mentioned where the Daedlus and the Appollo were? Why did they not use one of those to initiate a quicker resuce of Sheppard?

monkey_man132
October 26th, 2007, 07:03 PM
omg it was pretty good all around episode. me like :)

the ending was funny :mckay::lol:

I like their ships they look awesome :D

Ltcolshepjumper
October 26th, 2007, 07:03 PM
Best.episode.ever. And the ship survives. Seriously, those ships are no bigger than the Daedalus.

psiu
October 26th, 2007, 07:05 PM
pretty nice episode--I thought Larin was done for after the Wraith got her...I loved the meal at the end.

Shepard--leaving out minor detail
McKay--suspicious
Ronon--grinning madly
Teyla--rolling her eyes at her boys

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 07:05 PM
Excellent episode, one question. Was it mentioned where the Daedlus and the Appollo were? Why did they not use one of those to initiate a quicker resuce of Sheppard?
Good question though they might have been out of range.

majorsal
October 26th, 2007, 07:05 PM
Best.episode.ever.

was this one of the eps where sam/amanda wasn't in it?

i'm hoping, with this being such a sheppard centric ep, it'll help me grow to appreciate sheppard more. :)



sally :D

Cameron Mitchel
October 26th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Best.episode.ever. And the ship survives. Seriously, those ships are no bigger than the Daedalus.
YES! Best ep of the season so far!! Can't wait to see them again-- would be interesting to see more races like them (space pirates)..SG-1 should havd had some races like the Travelers, and not like the TOLAN...

siXbrownSnakes2
October 26th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Edit: Bleh, upon watching it again, I guess I'll have to agree with what seems to be the consensus that it was another predictable and badly written JM episode :(

theres always next week!...

Homeslice55
October 26th, 2007, 07:06 PM
ugh.. I was so excited for this episode. But to me:

Travelers=Prometheus Unbound

I feel like they are borrowing too many things from SG-1. Just new characters.

Cameron Mitchel
October 26th, 2007, 07:06 PM
pretty nice episode--I thought Larin was done for after the Wraith got her...I loved the meal at the end.

Shepard--leaving out minor detail
McKay--suspicious
Ronon--grinning madly
Teyla--rolling her eyes at her boys
The reason I was like "she can't be dead" is because they hadn't kissed yet (like in the episode promo).

Ltcolshepjumper
October 26th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Those ships reminded me of Prometheus. Also, glad the ship survives, and, they can eventually repair it. I wonder though, why they did not offer to bring them to Atlantis?

Cameron Mitchel
October 26th, 2007, 07:07 PM
ugh.. I was so excited for this episode. But to me:

Travelers=Prometheus Unbound

I feel like they are borrowing too many things from SG-1. Just new characters.
Yeah, but it was written 10 times better than Prometheus Unbound!!

Xicer
October 26th, 2007, 07:07 PM
Good ep, though I expected the Travelers' ships to be much bigger. Loved the general story, though I think the dialogue was a bit cheesy at times.

Cameron Mitchel
October 26th, 2007, 07:07 PM
Those ships reminded me of Prometheus. Also, glad the ship survives, and, they can eventually repair it. I wonder though, why they did not offer to bring them to Atlantis?
YEAH! For once, an Ancient ship SURVIVES!!!!!

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:08 PM
I missed the first 10 minutes of the show but from what I saw it is ridiculously lame. The last 10 minutes were stereotypical piss poor writing. Teyla gets the talk first line. Rodney gets to say I don't know and Ronan gets to say the brave yet not entirely smart line. I mean come on, does Shepard only use his little head to make a decision?

And I know they like to make him into a humanitarian but he was taken hostage and decides to stun his tormentors instead of killing them on the spot. That was just plain dumb. They have to die because of the Wraith attack.... Such a lame copt out.

Cameron Mitchel
October 26th, 2007, 07:08 PM
Good ep, though I expected the Travelers' ships to be much bigger. Loved the general story, though I think the dialogue was a bit cheesy at times.
Jill Wagner isn't the best a dialogue. IT got better as the ep went on.

Niteshadow
October 26th, 2007, 07:08 PM
started off great got a little boring in the middle but really came back at the end. I really thought we where going to get that ship.

Also happy that we got some a update on the wraith/replawar. ......

AGateFan
October 26th, 2007, 07:08 PM
Nice. I liked it well enough, nothing super duper but MUCH better then I expected….maybe I just have low expectations.

The leather girl was not as slutty as expected, in fact, she didn’t really strike me as slutty at all, and that I didn’t expect. Sheppard only leered a little so even he was behaving much better then expected.

Too bad about the two traveler guys, I actually liked them.

Nice to find out information on Ronan’s gun.

Rodney was good in this well until the last scene. Ronan and Teyla looked suitably anxious and Loren did a good job as always

Wraith had better hair then the previous ep this season.

Sheppard acting like Ronan with the gun was funny.

The closet scene was not as bad as I thought it would be. The TPTB required bad sex joke when they were going to take out the wraith was, well…bad but could have been worse.

The drones were cool as always.

Ooooo Laren got wraithed. I could see it coming only after she shut the door but otherwise it was an unexpected turn in the show. I was however, immediately thinking about how Shep was going to threaten the wraith into de-wraithing her. It went about how I expected, though I was pleasantly surprised that Shep let the wraith leave (even if it wasn’t tactically sound I think it’s important to show honor).

Laren and Sheps behavior with a live wraith behind them was stupid….but at least Laren had a good reason….maybe Shep will learn his lesson.

Good job with Teyla talking about negociation and fairly OK reason not to given by the others. Big old ataboy to Sheppard for actually managing to talk and establish and alliance and without any sex jokes. The dinner scene was nice until Mckay got annoying. I Did like Teyla’s eye roll though.

Ultimately this was a MUCH better version of Prometheus Unbound. (yeah I just HAD to compare it to an SG-1 ep since someone else is likely to do it anyway ;))

Aahhhh I see Homeslice55 beat me too it.. kudos!

Cameron Mitchel
October 26th, 2007, 07:08 PM
I missed the first 10 minutes of the show but from what I saw it is ridiculously lame. The last 10 minutes were stereotypical piss poor writing. Teyla gets the talk first line. Rodney gets to say I don't know and Ronan gets to say the brave yet not entirely smart line. I mean come on, does Shepard only use his little head to make a decision?

And I know they like to make him into a humanitarian but he was taken hostage and decides to stun his tormentors instead of killing them on the spot. That was just plain dumb. They have to die because of the Wraith attack.... Such a lame copt out.
Well, you're the odd one out. SORRY!

Ltcolshepjumper
October 26th, 2007, 07:09 PM
It had some elements from Prometheus Unbound- the whole capture thing, the stunning and escaping thing, sort of, but overall it was a unique episode. I waide to look a little like the other Ancient warships, though. Oh well. One question though. Why did the weapons have to be fired from the control chair? Why not the bridge?

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 07:09 PM
ugh.. I was so excited for this episode. But to me:

Travelers=Prometheus Unbound

I feel like they are borrowing too many things from SG-1. Just new characters.
How though?
Those ships reminded me of Prometheus. Also, glad the ship survives, and, they can eventually repair it. I wonder though, why they did not offer to bring them to Atlantis?
Ooo yes. Offer to bring the homicidal crazy aliens that are really smart to Atlantis.

Mattathias2.0
October 26th, 2007, 07:10 PM
I loved this episode much better than last weeks, and just as good as Reunion.

Pros:
- Loved the interaction between Larrin & Sheppard.
- Lorne was in it!
- The Wraith are just getting better and better.
- That makes 4 Aurora-class vessels ending up adrift or something (see Aurora, Inferno, The Return and this episode).
- Possible allies.

Cons:
- What was the name of the ship?
- How do we contact them in the future?

Major_Griff
October 26th, 2007, 07:10 PM
Pretty good episode. I can already forsee the gift of life becoming SGA's waaaaaaaay over used escape hatch for death much like ascension became in SG-1. I would have like some kind of discussion about why the travelers use the same weapon as Ronon more than just Sheppard's comment on it. I though it would have been cool if Ronon had a run in with them while he was a runner or something else like that they could have mentioned in the rap up scene. Over all I enjoyed my self, which is what counts. 7/10.

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:12 PM
pretty nice episode--I thought Larin was done for after the Wraith got her...I loved the meal at the end.

Shepard--leaving out minor detail
McKay--suspicious
Ronon--grinning madly
Teyla--rolling her eyes at her boys

I've been drinking for three hours and I could have told you every scene before it was aired. Shepard is ridiculously predictable. And as soon as the Wraith attacked Larrin it was clear that Shepard would force the Wraith to revive him. And seriously, Shepard should get chewed a new a-hole for falling to secure that ship.

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 07:12 PM
And I know they like to make him into a humanitarian but he was taken hostage and decides to stun his tormentors instead of killing them on the spot. That was just plain dumb. They have to die because of the Wraith attack.... Such a lame copt out.
No. This is called tactical advantage. He made the assumption that she wasn't going to flood the room with radiation and kill him if he had hostages.

Why did the weapons have to be fired from the control chair? Why not the bridge? Who really knows? Perhaps the bridge doesn't have weapons control and the ship was designed to complement a large group of people. Perhaps she assumed that Shepard knew how to aim really well.
How do we contact them in the future?
Orbiting satellite.

And seriously, Shepard should get chewed a new a-hole for falling to secure that ship.
Why? It's not like he had the rights to it. As bad as kidnapping is the ship was the Travelers.

BillyHoyle
October 26th, 2007, 07:14 PM
4 outa 10. All the buildup and then it just ends.

monkey_man132
October 26th, 2007, 07:14 PM
I've been drinking for three hours and I could have told you every scene before it was aired. Shepard is ridiculously predictable. And as soon as the Wraith attacked Larrin it was clear that Shepard would force the Wraith to revive him. And seriously, Shepard should get chewed a new a-hole for falling to secure that ship.
u get psychic abilities when ur drunk then the episode was original and interesting.

Lord batchi ball
October 26th, 2007, 07:14 PM
I liked this episode but the constant betraying got a little old.

The Wraith boarding the ship was a great add to the story.

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:18 PM
u get psychic abilities when ur drunk then the episode was original and interesting.

Its called an overused formula.

monkey_man132
October 26th, 2007, 07:18 PM
more importantly... didn't they all have Ronan Guns??!!?!?!?!! :confused:

maybe they just look like them who knows

Ruffles
October 26th, 2007, 07:18 PM
LOVED it! Every bit.

*unabashed Shep whumper glee* I'll save that for the appropriate thread.

Great setup of a shaky alliance - a dying society that has highly advanced tech. I never suspected her 2 guys were red-shirts. And life sucked by a Wraith!!! Really didn't see that coming. And how gutsy for Shep to threaten the Wraith with a drained gun. Plus the look on his face as he watched the life go back into Larrin. I suspect a little Common Ground remembrance going on in his head.

Interesting to see how the power cell works on those blasters. I wonder if Sheppard kept the one he was carrying.

Always good to see Lorne - way to command a jumper fleet! Awesomeness there.

I loved that Teyla and Ronon listened patiently to McKay's technobabble about the morse code. *team love* And Ronon's statement that it didn't matter if it was a fleet of hive ships, they wouldn't turn back (and Lorne agreeing). *happy sigh*

I also loved seeing smart Sheppard - getting the upper hand with inertial dampeners, hotwiring the control chair, sealing Larrin in the chair room, understanding what was wrong with the hyperdrive. Someone's been paying attention to all that McKay technobabble.

Larrin - LOVED her. Smart, tough, sassy, using all her feminine wiles and then STUNNING him. You go girl!

Fabulous look at the Ancient tech - we didn't get the ship but it was great to see it actually operational. Using the control chair for weapons, having an auxiliary control, etc.

All in all - really fun ep. Lots of action and intrigue. And the ending scene was priceless - Sheppard eating that huge plate of food, Ronon gnawing on a piece of meat stabbed with a fork, McKay's look when John tells him the sexy alien is still out there. Teyla's eye roll was the icing on the cake.


Excellent episode, one question. Was it mentioned where the Daedlus and the Appollo were? Why did they not use one of those to initiate a quicker resuce of Sheppard?

No, they haven't mentioned either ship. Perhaps they are too far away. It takes weeks to travel between galaxies. Plus I suspect they don't come as much since the Midway station is operational.

Homeslice55
October 26th, 2007, 07:19 PM
How though?

How though? ... more like, How Not? I just started to list everything, but it would be more efficient just to say, rewatch Prometheus Unbound again, and then watch Travelers again.

I will give this though: Travelers is the better version.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 26th, 2007, 07:20 PM
One thing I have a question about. Why couldn't Atlantis's sensors pick up the Ancient warship? It was active after all.

justhere1971
October 26th, 2007, 07:20 PM
Reunion was better than todays.

Let's see:

Predictable things:
Larrin/Shep banter
Wraith feeding & returning life.
Borrowed elements from PU.
Kissing.


Fun facts:
Ronon's gun trivia. That was nice.

Fun to watch:
Shep getting whumpped hard - by a girl.

What was up with the rest of the team? Suddenly Rodney's in charge? No one felt strange that the Head of science team was running the rescue mission and pretty much the back end of the show? No background given? Lorne had what 2 or 3 lines? The jumper formation, I guess they loved the Adrift one so much, they're going to want to repeat this. Teyla & Ronon - still under used as ever.

When they said the show will go dark this season, I didn't realize they meant they forgot to pay the light bill and it would be literally dark.

Anywho, moving along.

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 07:22 PM
Its called an overused formula.
No it's not. It's called characterization. You knew he was going to save Larrin because he isn't that type of guy.

How though? ... more like, How Not? I just started to list everything, but it would be more efficient just to say, rewatch Prometheus Unbound again, and then watch Travelers again.
I've seen both episodes. They aren't even related. One involved stealing a ship to sell for money and the other involved kidnapping a person so they can operate a ship they legitimately???? own.
The jumper formation, I guess they loved the Adrift one so much, they're going to want to repeat this. The jumper formation made sense for a strike force. Since Jumpers only hold so many people it would make sense to have a bunch of them.

kali1
October 26th, 2007, 07:23 PM
I missed the first 10 minutes of the show but from what I saw it is ridiculously lame. The last 10 minutes were stereotypical piss poor writing. Teyla gets the talk first line. Rodney gets to say I don't know and Ronan gets to say the brave yet not entirely smart line. I mean come on, does Shepard only use his little head to make a decision?

And I know they like to make him into a humanitarian but he was taken hostage and decides to stun his tormentors instead of killing them on the spot. That was just plain dumb. They have to die because of the Wraith attack.... Such a lame copt out.

You took the words right out of my mouth! :weiranime17::weiranime20:

Arturis
October 26th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Honestly, I thought this episode sucked... big time. Sheppard should have tried to secure the ship instead of succumbing to the usual Kirk BS he always does. As soon as Larrin's men we dead, he should have taken steps to disable her, preferably by shooting her in the head, breaking little Larrin's neck, or at least letting the Wraith finish its job (God, she annoyed me and deserved to die), and taken the ship back to Atlantis instead of trying to get in her pants like he ALWAYS does. But, then again, if he had done that he and Rodney would have figured a way to destroy it inside of an episode. I'm glad the ship wasn't destroyed, but the stupid Travelers (worst. race. ever... and here's to hoping that either the Wraith or the Replicators (YES, REPLICATORS, NOT ASURANS, they haven't been called Asurans since they were found out to be REPLICATORS) destroy them all) shouldn't have gotten it either. All this episode really proved to me is that the Air Force needs to have Sheppard chemically castrated so that this crap never happens again. Easily the worst episode of the season so far.

Konrad9
October 26th, 2007, 07:23 PM
I missed the first 10 minutes of the show but from what I saw it is ridiculously lame. The last 10 minutes were stereotypical piss poor writing. Teyla gets the talk first line. Rodney gets to say I don't know and Ronan gets to say the brave yet not entirely smart line. I mean come on, does Shepard only use his little head to make a decision?

And I know they like to make him into a humanitarian but he was taken hostage and decides to stun his tormentors instead of killing them on the spot. That was just plain dumb. They have to die because of the Wraith attack.... Such a lame copt out.

Why exactly are you bothering to waste your entirely too important time watching such a horrible show?

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:24 PM
No. This is called tactical advantage. He made the assumption that she wasn't going to flood the room with radiation and kill him if he had hostages.

Shepard is able to track her as she moves through out the ship. I am not aware of any fail safes but he should be able to trap her or space her and then walk to a secure part of the ship while waiting for it to drop out of hyperspace. Does the person need to be alive for those detectors to work?

Also how do they know so much about Ancient tech? I missed the first few minutes. It can't be that easy to fix an ancient hyper drive system.

Ruffles
October 26th, 2007, 07:25 PM
was this one of the eps where sam/amanda wasn't in it?

i'm hoping, with this being such a sheppard centric ep, it'll help me grow to appreciate sheppard more. :)



sally :D

No Sam in this one.


Good ep, though I expected the Travelers' ships to be much bigger. Loved the general story, though I think the dialogue was a bit cheesy at times.

I thought the ships would be bigger too. Perhaps that's why they are having to leave behind their people.

idlewild202
October 26th, 2007, 07:26 PM
Haha, fun episode.

I liked that Shepard was bickering with someone BESIDES McKay. As much as I laugh at the Shep/Rodney arguing scenes it's nice to see something fresh.

As for whatsherface, the Traveler's commander, for some reason she just didn't strike me as "leader" material...

Loved the ending, Teyla rolling her eyes was priceless. :lol:

M'kay... not much to say about this week.

Other than.... WTF was up with the wraith hair??? That one dude looked like he had freaking PIGTAILS!!

the fifth man
October 26th, 2007, 07:27 PM
Really great episode tonight. Pretty much from start to finish, this one entertained me. Definitely a Sheppard-heavy episode, and I think it really helped me to like his character even more.

LiLTiff17
October 26th, 2007, 07:29 PM
It was ok for me, some entertaining moments, plenty of whump if one is in to that. Imo it wasn't the best ep but certainly not the worst. But when Shep let his guard down and allowed Larin to kiss him I literally cringed. When she pointed the stunner at him I was like Nooooooo! ala Darth Vader Episode 3-ok maybe not that dramatic or cheesy. :D
Then I changed my mind. Since Sheppard 'kissed the girl' the very dangerous, unpredictable girl, he deserved it. I seriously wanted the Wraith whom he spared to come back, find Sheppard and kick his butt for being dumb, or team up with him so they could both get rid of or get away from Larin.
Interesting conversation at the end INDEED, Shep mentioned that he wasn't at a spa with her, but I wondered if he mentioned that he allowed her to come that close and kiss him, resulting in him getting stunned.:)

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:30 PM
Why exactly are you bothering to waste your entirely too important time watching such a horrible show?

I wasn't going to but my friend had to go visit her girlfriend so I called it an early night. I am also a big scifi fan so I can sit through a lot of trash. I really liked the previous two episodes.

I do not think that SGA is a horrible show. I think it could be an amazing show but it is limited by horrendous formulaic writing. I mean come on its set in a different galaxy so you could touch on any social or political problem and get away with it since it is in the Pegasus galaxy.

How do you think BSG got away with suicide bombings?

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 07:31 PM
Also how do they know so much about Ancient tech? I missed the first few minutes. It can't be that easy to fix an ancient hyper drive system.
Well about the hyperdrive Sheppard said it wasn't broken. It was some conduit or whatchamacallit.
Shepard is able to track her as she moves through out the ship. I am not aware of any fail safes but he should be able to trap her or space her and then walk to a secure part of the ship while waiting for it to drop out of hyperspace. Does the person need to be alive for those detectors to work?

Hmmm good point. Why didn't Shepard trap Larrin as soon as he jumped to hyperspace. Then again it might not have mattered if she was in the same room the shield generator was in.

DeRoest
October 26th, 2007, 07:33 PM
i stand by my statement that this franchises greatest weakness is its "guest stars". It is sad when the best guest performances are done by puppets (and dom deluise!)

Briangate78
October 26th, 2007, 07:33 PM
ugh.. I was so excited for this episode. But to me:

Travelers=Prometheus Unbound

I feel like they are borrowing too many things from SG-1. Just new characters.


Yeah, but it was written 10 times better than Prometheus Unbound!!

This episode put "Prometheus Unbound" to shame. Was a much better episode! Overall a great fun episode.

Jackie
October 26th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Okay episode but far from the best so far...considering we have only seen 5 eps.

Way too much like PU episode on over all arc. Not enough bad guys or Wraith...I was wondering if the girl was supposed to be this "New Enemy" that was advertised or Sheps version of Taming of the Shrew.

Really missed Dr. Weir and Carson Beckett.

Teyla is still wall paper. Ronin still a totem pole and Rodney was actually missed this ep.

Shep does need more developing--how many times is he gonna fall for the same trick? Yes, shep--she's gonna screw you over.

I would give it a 7 ot of 10 scale IMO

Homeslice55
October 26th, 2007, 07:34 PM
I've seen both episodes. They aren't even related. One involved stealing a ship to sell for money and the other involved kidnapping a person so they can operate a ship they legitimately???? own.

Well obviously when narrowed down to that degree of specifics, yes, they were definitely two different shows.

The whole concept of a leading male Stargate team member being trapped on a ship with a hot, technologically intelligent, advanced fighter female alien has been done before. And while I think Travelers was better, it doesn't change the fact it was a hand-me-down from SG1.

My mind is boggled right now that you can't see any similarities.

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:36 PM
Honestly, I thought this episode sucked... big time. Sheppard should have tried to secure the ship instead of succumbing to the usual Kirk BS he always does. As soon as Larrin's men we dead, he should have taken steps to disable her, preferably by shooting her in the head, breaking little Larrin's neck, or at least letting the Wraith finish its job (God, she annoyed me and deserved to die), and taken the ship back to Atlantis instead of trying to get in her pants like he ALWAYS does. But, then again, if he had done that he and Rodney would have figured a way to destroy it inside of an episode. I'm glad the ship wasn't destroyed, but the stupid Travelers (worst. race. ever... and here's to hoping that either the Wraith or the Replicators (YES, REPLICATORS, NOT ASURANS, they haven't been called Asurans since they were found out to be REPLICATORS) destroy them all) shouldn't have gotten it either. All this episode really proved to me is that the Air Force needs to have Sheppard chemically castrated so that this crap never happens again. Easily the worst episode of the season so far.

I agree with you. I always wonder why Rodney was in command of a rescue operation. A key member of your expedition was taken hostage but there is also an Aurora class vessel at your disposal. They wonder what to shoot at... Gee, destroy the ships surrounding the Aurora class vessel and while you are at it try to disable that too. It takes a year to decide what to do and then we should be shocked that Shep is back? Its not a two part episode.... If this was speculative fiction then I might wonder if Shepard is back in the next episode...

Ltcolshepjumper
October 26th, 2007, 07:39 PM
Okay episode but far from the best so far...considering we have only seen 5 eps.

Way too much like PU episode on over all arc. Not enough bad guys or Wraith...I was wondering if the girl was supposed to be this "New Enemy" that was advertised or Sheps version of Taming of the Shrew.

Really missed Dr. Weir and Carson Beckett.

Teyla is still wall paper. Ronin still a totem pole and Rodney was actually missed this ep.

Shep does need more developing--how many times is he gonna fall for the same trick? Yes, shep--she's gonna screw you over.

I would give it a 7 ot of 10 scale IMO

One thing I did notice in this ep- the episode can still be ok without Carter. Although it can't without Mckay. Also, yes, I miss them too. They set the tone of the show as a whole. Also, why does every Ancient ship have to be damaged? Also, why didn't they just dock on the warship? Duh. No brainer.

Homeslice55
October 26th, 2007, 07:40 PM
Briangate78: I really like your sig. Did you make that? Brian is my favorite Family Guy character!

Also, I agree: Travelers was much better.

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 07:40 PM
My mind is boggled right now that you can't see any similarities.

The problem is that your trying to argue down to the basest plot. Man and female stuck on ship. I really see the similarities when you dumb the plot down to that basest general level.

I agree with you. I always wonder why Rodney was in command of a rescue operation. A key member of your expedition was taken hostage but there is also an Aurora class vessel at your disposal. They wonder what to shoot at... Gee, destroy the ships surrounding the Aurora class vessel and while you are at it try to disable that too.
Reply With Quote
Moronic. They weren't trying to kill them. Not only that but your argument makes the giant assumption that Sheppard was on the Aurora.

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:41 PM
Well about the hyperdrive Sheppard said it wasn't broken. It was some conduit or whatchamacallit.
Hmmm good point. Why didn't Shepard trap Larrin as soon as he jumped to hyperspace. Then again it might not have mattered if she was in the same room the shield generator was in.

I'll have to watch the beginning. I saw a few minutes before he stunned his captors. As soon as that happened I was wondering why he didn't trap the girl. Then of course I realized she was hot so that means Shepard must try to 'kiss' her. After that it was pretty easy to guess what was happening next. The Wraith were not a huge surprise.

lirenel
October 26th, 2007, 07:42 PM
When they said the show will go dark this season, I didn't realize they meant they forgot to pay the light bill and it would be literally dark.


Maybe Chris Carter was hired in an unmentioned light-advisory position. (The one thing about X-files that really annoys me)

Wasn't a bad episode, wasn't a great one. To me it was on par with episodes like Aurora and the Ark, which were good episodes but I wouldn't go out of my way to watch them again like I would Sateda, Phantoms, and the Storm/the Eye.

I wish they had explained more the connection between the Travelers and Ronon's gun, though it's nice to see more of that kind of weaponry.

I do like the idea of the Travelers and humans in the Pegasus Galaxy that found a way to maintain their advanced technology and escape the Wraith. It would have been nice to have seen more of their culture, but I understand time constraints.

I'd give it a 7/10.

ColCaldwell
October 26th, 2007, 07:42 PM
After this episode Sheppard needs to be shot. We lost an Aurora class ship because he couldn't keep it in his pants for God's sake!!

Vala_M
October 26th, 2007, 07:43 PM
Great episode.

I love that we finally found out where Ronon's gun came from, but another question is, how did he get it? Did he encounter The Travelers before or what? The Ancient warship suriving, although with a destroyed bridge! About time. And yes, just as others are agreeing, I felt this episode was the Atlantis version of Prometheus Unbound.

Vala,

Xicer
October 26th, 2007, 07:44 PM
The problem is that your trying to argue down to the basest plot. Man and female stuck on ship. I really see the similarities when you dumb the plot down to that level.

I think what he meant was that both episodes had very similar elements. Obviously their plots are not gonna be exactly the same, but much of the general idea is. Guy gets stuck alone on an advanced ship with a hot alien girl. Both guy and girl fight for control of the ship, and eventually have to fight a common enemy, where the two end up coming to some common ground.

AGateFan
October 26th, 2007, 07:44 PM
After this episode Sheppard needs to be shot. We lost an Aurora class ship because he couldn't keep it in his pants for God's sake!!
Wasn't our ship to begin with. It was theirs. What if they had not kidnapped Sheppard, do you think we should have attacked them and stolen it?

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:45 PM
After this episode Sheppard needs to be shot. We lost an Aurora class ship because he couldn't keep it in his pants for God's sake!!

Amen.

justhere1971
October 26th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Maybe Chris Carter was hired in an unmentioned light-advisory position. (The one thing about X-files that really annoys me)

:lol: so very true! But that was part of X-files' charm ... it started out, and added to the whole Monster of the Week feel.


I wish they had explained more the connection between the Travelers and Ronon's gun, though it's nice to see more of that kind of weaponry.
Yeah, they should outfit the whole SGA with those guns. Actually instead of running his own rescue mission, maybe McKay should concentrate on how to reproduce these.

Mattathias2.0
October 26th, 2007, 07:47 PM
I just realised Carter was not in the episode, lol.

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Wasn't our ship to begin with. It was theirs. What if they had not kidnapped Sheppard, do you think we should have attacked them and stolen it?

Is that a serious question?

ColCaldwell
October 26th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Wasn't our ship to begin with. It was theirs. What if they had not kidnapped Sheppard, do you think we should have attacked them and stolen it?

Since they kidnapped him, it was fair game. But Sheppard was too busy trying the Kirking again and lost the damn ship. My God, he needs to be shot!

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 07:47 PM
After this episode Sheppard needs to be shot. We lost an Aurora class ship because he couldn't keep it in his pants for God's sake!!
It wasn't his to lose. He never owned it. It was clear that it was the travelers ship. Him being kidnapped doesn't make it his.

justhere1971
October 26th, 2007, 07:48 PM
Wasn't our ship to begin with. It was theirs. What if they had not kidnapped Sheppard, do you think we should have attacked them and stolen it?

I do think if they had not kidnapped him or maybe even though they kidnapped him - SGA should go into talks/negotiations to get a hold of that ship. If they can find them that is.

Briangate78
October 26th, 2007, 07:48 PM
Briangate78: I really like your sig. Did you make that? Brian is my favorite Family Guy character!

Also, I agree: Travelers was much better.

Thanks! Someone on the Sci-fi.com forums made it for me. :p

ColCaldwell
October 26th, 2007, 07:49 PM
It wasn't his to lose. He never owned it. It was clear that it was the travelers ship. Him being kidnapped doesn't make it his.



you're joking right?

Arturis
October 26th, 2007, 07:49 PM
He doesn't need to be shot.... just chemically castrated.

justhere1971
October 26th, 2007, 07:50 PM
Since they kidnapped him, it was fair game. But Sheppard was too busy trying the Kirking again and lost the damn ship. My God, he needs to be shot!

He was reacting to the situation. Even though I didn't quite like this episode, I didn't feel that he was "kirking" ... he was using what comes naturally to him -- his ability to charm women. If it had worked, it would've been great, but Larrin seems to be smarter than that.

Ruffles
October 26th, 2007, 07:50 PM
Well obviously when narrowed down to that degree of specifics, yes, they were definitely two different shows.

The whole concept of a leading male Stargate team member being trapped on a ship with a hot, technologically intelligent, advanced fighter female alien has been done before. And while I think Travelers was better, it doesn't change the fact it was a hand-me-down from SG1.

My mind is boggled right now that you can't see any similarities.

Well, keep being boggled because it never crossed my mind until I saw it on this thread. This ep was about capturing someone with the Ancient gene to initialize a ship needed to save her people. Admittedly you have a man and a woman on a ship, but the similarities (to me) end there. She is nothing like Vala, and Sheppard is definitely nothing like Daniel. And it wasn't until the show was almost halfway through that they were alone.

LiveLongAndProsper
October 26th, 2007, 07:51 PM
This episode most definitely did not live up to it's hype. While watching Sheppard jaunting around an abandoned ship with a lovely woman and being beat up on occasion was all well and good, it certainly can't carry the episode.

The ruthless woman leader with the cliche vulnerable side was very sexy, yet wholly uninteresting. (I'm a man, if anyone's wondering). The equally cliched kiss between the hero and the aformentioned sexy alien leader did surprise me in that it was a ploy on her part and he got stunned, which was not the starry-eyed conclusion to that scene I expected. Thank goodness for small miracles.

The thing that frustates me most is how run-of-the-mill this episode is. Did it make me laugh? No. Was I on the edge of my seat at any point? No. Did something unexpected happen, something I didn't guess was going to happen before it happened? Nope. Did I learn anything new about the show's hero? No. I already knew he was very smart, even gifted, and has a soft spot for pretty Pegasus Galaxy residents. Was it utterly predictible? Gods, yes.

I was also puzzled by the absence of Colonel Carter. Not even the token mission approval scene that we would've been gotten with Dr. Weir. Very strange, and as aggravating as the unexplained absence of Ronon and Teyla in Grace Under Pressure.

Even though we ended with the possibility of having found another ally in Pegasus in the Travellers, this episode offered me nothing new, nothing exciting. And once again, I feel gypped out of having an episode in which Sheppard is unable to charm his way out of a dangerous situation and must be completely dependent upon his comrades for rescue. I've been feeling very shortchanged on this issue for quite some time.

For me, this is the weakest episode so far in season 4, and I would only give it a 5 out of 10. Next week's episode looks far more interesting.

kali1
October 26th, 2007, 07:51 PM
ugh.. I was so excited for this episode. But to me:

Travelers=Prometheus Unbound

I feel like they are borrowing too many things from SG-1. Just new characters.

I agree. Prometheus Unbound was a excellent episode. Travelers was just a terrible rehash job.

ColCaldwell
October 26th, 2007, 07:52 PM
He was reacting to the situation. Even though I didn't quite like this episode, I didn't feel that he was "kirking" ... he was using what comes naturally to him -- his ability to charm women. If it had worked, it would've been great, but Larrin seems to be smarter than that.

Incorrect, he couldn't keep it in his pants and because of that he ****ed up again!

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:52 PM
The problem is that your trying to argue down to the basest plot. Man and female stuck on ship. I really see the similarities when you dumb the plot down to that basest general level.

Moronic. They weren't trying to kill them. Not only that but your argument makes the giant assumption that Sheppard was on the Aurora.

Hey, feel free to call the drunk guy a moron but at least I can tell that this episode was a repackaging of Unbound. And, anyone in the military would understand that an operational Aurora class vessel is worth the life of a Colonel. And its not too great of a leap to think that Shepard is on the ANCIENT ship since he is needed to activate the systems.

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 07:54 PM
you're joking right?
No.

He doesn't need to be shot.... just chemically castrated.
Just as a side note him being stunned was a moot point. The first rescue team to arrive was really what affected who would get the ship first.

And, anyone in the military would understand that an operational Aurora class vessel is worth the life of a Colonel. And its not too great of a leap to think that Shepard is on the ANCIENT ship since he is needed to activate the systems.

There are still problems with this argument though. The traveler's ships have the ability to knock puddle jumpers out of the sky.

Phenix
October 26th, 2007, 07:55 PM
This episode most definitely did not live up to it's hype. While watching Sheppard jaunting around an abandoned ship with a lovely woman and being beat up on occasion was all well and good, it certainly can't carry the episode.

The ruthless woman leader with the cliche vulnerable side was very sexy, yet wholly uninteresting. (I'm a man, if anyone's wondering). The equally cliched kiss between the hero and the aformentioned sexy alien leader did surprise me in that it was a ploy on her part and he got stunned, which was not the starry-eyed conclusion to that scene I expected. Thank goodness for small miracles.

The thing that frustates me most is how run-of-the-mill this episode is. Did it make me laugh? No. Was I on the edge of my seat at any point? No. Did something unexpected happen, something I didn't guess was going to happen before it happened? Nope. Did I learn anything new about the show's hero? No. I already knew he was very smart, even gifted, and has a soft spot for pretty Pegasus Galaxy residents. Was it utterly predictible? Gods, yes.

I was also puzzled by the absence of Colonel Carter. Not even the token mission approval scene that we would've been gotten with Dr. Weir. Very strange, and as aggravating as the unexplained absence of Ronon and Teyla in Grace Under Pressure.

Even though we ended with the possibility of having found another ally in Pegasus in the Travellers, this episode offered me nothing new, nothing exciting. And once again, I feel gypped out of having an episode in which Sheppard is unable to charm his way out of a dangerous situation and must be completely dependent upon his comrades for rescue. I've been feeling very shortchanged on this issue for quite some time.

For me, this is the weakest episode so far in season 4, and I would only give it a 5 out of 10. Next week's episode looks far more interesting.

I'm glad to see I'm not alone.

justhere1971
October 26th, 2007, 07:56 PM
Incorrect, he couldn't keep it in his pants and because of that he ****ed up again!

Are you talking about that one kiss? You seriously think Larrin wouldn't have shot him regardless? She doesn't strike me as a damsel in distress type.

AGateFan
October 26th, 2007, 07:57 PM
I do think if they had not kidnapped him or maybe even though they kidnapped him - SGA should go into talks/negotiations to get a hold of that ship. If they can find them that is.
Maybe they would be willing to trade that ship for something roomier and with supplies. I am all for negociating, stealing when you know there are people that need the ship is where i have issues.

Since I assume they are not copying PU that much I will assume that the Travelers actually really do need the ship for their people. Just as the SGA team are willing to do whatever it takes to save Sheppard, the Travelers were willing to do whatever it takes to save their people. I can respect that (Well as long as they dont try to take one of our ships and leave a bunch of people to die....in this case they just kidnapped sheppard and I never really got the sense that they were looking to kill him, just get the stuff they need and cut him loose).

Arturis
October 26th, 2007, 07:59 PM
I'm glad to see I'm not alone.

Same here.

justhere1971
October 26th, 2007, 08:00 PM
I can respect that (Well as long as they dont try to take one of our ships and leave a bunch of people to die....in this case they just kidnapped sheppard and I never really got the sense that they were looking to kill him, just get the stuff they need and cut him loose).

I totally agree with that. I think Larrin & her people saw the advantage of Shep's gene immediately and they did not seem totally incompetent or insane to kill their one immediate solution.

I am for peaceful talks. Bring it on.

ColCaldwell
October 26th, 2007, 08:02 PM
Are you talking about that one kiss? You seriously think Larrin wouldn't have shot him regardless? She doesn't strike me as a damsel in distress type.

He was an idiot for even letting himself put in that situation.

ToasterOnFire
October 26th, 2007, 08:03 PM
Well, the scenes between Larrin and Shep were predictable and cheesy but not nearly as cringe-worthy as I thought. But overall I thought this ep was dull. Hero gets captured, hero fights with captors, hero saves the captor and maybe makes a new friend. Eh. This new group of people and their ship didn't get me interested at all. And we spent all this time with Shep but I can't think of anything new I learned about him.

Some of the dialog wasn't all that great either. Shep's "This just...isn't...RIGHT!" when he's suspended over space comes to mind, yikes. :S

Homeslice55
October 26th, 2007, 08:03 PM
The problem is that your trying to argue down to the basest plot. Man and female stuck on ship. I really see the similarities when you dumb the plot down to that basest general level.


Which is exactly my point. I would like new creative ideas.

Perhaps I took crazy pills before watching, but I found familiarity in many scenes. And I will list some even though I can tell you will argue this forever.

The sexual tension between the "man and female stuck on ship." There are direct parallels from PU and Travelers. The emotions were the same. Daniel and John both fell for the Vala/Larin using their sexuality to their advantage. And in the end, the women don't accpmplish their primary mission, but leave with more than they came.

The scene where Vala was trapped in the hold was more than vaguely familiar to Larin being trapped in the Chair room.

It ended the same "gray" way. Perhaps she will come back, perhaps not. But the respect for the other was clear.

There are three examples, I am sure you will try to debunk

suse
October 26th, 2007, 08:04 PM
<<YAWN>>

Oh, was that me? What a boring episode. Too much Shep, too little *anyone* else, no chemistry between Shep and Larren, obvious plot devices, a contrived Traveler ending... the list goes on. But I was too bored to keep track.

ETA: I forgot all about Shep even commandeering the mission he was returning from because he wanted to go to a place where the people has very little social inhibitions. And smirked about it. This just before we get the sexual "sub;)text" (otherwise known as hammering) of Leather Chic and Shep. :rolleyes: Kirking carried to a ridiculous extreme.

The only redeeming feature of the episode was McKay's "sexy alien" comment and that oh so expressive :rolleyes:of Teyla's. :D

suse

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 08:06 PM
And in the end, the women don't accpmplish their primary mission, but leave with more than they came.
What?? The Aurora class ship is operational. They did accomplish their primary mission. They threw in a secondary mission towards the end but that had no bearing on the fact that they now had the ship. You could have seen the episode differently than I have but I thought it was pretty clear that all she wanted was him to turn it on.

LiveLongAndProsper
October 26th, 2007, 08:11 PM
I will amend my earlier post and say that in fact, I did chuckle on time. It was when Sheppard gave his name to the guard as Reed Richards. That's really the only bit I did enjoy. Unfortunately, it got buried beneath all that other stuff. :rolleyes:

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
October 26th, 2007, 08:14 PM
I personally though this was the best episode of the season so far. Adrift is a close second. I'm not setting my hopes high for next week's episode.

Homeslice55
October 26th, 2007, 08:14 PM
What?? The Aurora class ship is operational. They did accomplish their primary mission. They threw in a secondary mission towards the end but that had no bearing on the fact that they now had the ship. You don't even watch the episode.

I believe her goal was to have a working interface so they could activate the ship. Larin even commented on that in the end of the episode. They have John's blood sample and data from usage of the ship. Larin believes they can eventually come up with an interface, but it would be a lot faster if John was just stay and activate everything else. Therefore, she doesn't have a completely working ship and no working interface, but the most important parts are activated, so her people can live and travel on it.

You're right, I have just made all these comments about an episode I didn't watch, because instead of going out on this friday night, I chose to NOT to watch the show, but wait until it ended to make false and random comments about it..........

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 08:17 PM
I believe her goal was to have a working interface so they could activate the ship. Larin even commented on that in the end of the episode. They have John's blood sample and data from usage of the ship. Larin believes they can eventually come up with an interface, but it would be a lot faster if John was just stay and activate everything else. Therefore, she doesn't have a completely working ship and no working interface, but the most important parts are activated, so her people can live and travel on it.

I need to rewatch that scene again. I don't think her problem was the fact that the ship wasn't completely operational more than the fact that the ship will break down.

IcyNeko
October 26th, 2007, 08:18 PM
I personally though this was the best episode of the season so far. Adrift is a close second. I'm not setting my hopes high for next week's episode.
They. Lost. Another. Ancient. Warship. Why.

suse
October 26th, 2007, 08:19 PM
They. Lost. Another. Ancient. Warship. Why.

Kirking :)

Homeslice55
October 26th, 2007, 08:24 PM
I need to rewatch that scene again. I don't think her problem was the fact that the ship wasn't completely operational more than the fact that the ship will break down.

My bad, I am referring to 2 different scenes here. The part about the interface was from an earlier scenes when they wanted Sheppard to just fly the ship forward to get reading. What she says to sheppard in the end doesn't reflect what my earlier post led on. sorry. :sheppard:

Irish Eyes
October 26th, 2007, 08:32 PM
I hate to say this since Shep is near and dear to my heart, but I was just…bored. Nothing I truly hated, just an overall “meh” to the episode.

On the plus side, a Lorne sighting is always a good thing. ;)

Of the five episodes so far this season, this is definitely the weakest for me.

technoextreme
October 26th, 2007, 08:32 PM
My bad, I am referring to 2 different scenes here. The part about the interface was from an earlier scenes when they wanted Sheppard to just fly the ship forward to get reading. What she says to sheppard in the end doesn't reflect what my earlier post led on. sorry. :sheppard:
No. That's all right. Im sorry too for being crass. I wonder if the main bridge was destroyed or just badly damaged.

DeRoest
October 26th, 2007, 08:36 PM
a wise man once said, "There's no such thing as original thought any more. We're all just regurgitating the same old ideas over and over again, running them down to a giant melting pot of mediocrity."

....dang, they should have known that would have come back to bite them

Gate gal
October 26th, 2007, 08:40 PM
I was also puzzled by the absence of Colonel Carter. Not even the token mission approval scene that we would've been gotten with Dr. Weir. Very strange, and as aggravating as the unexplained absence of Ronon and Teyla in Grace Under Pressure.

I missed having a mission approval type scene, too. But, Amanda was filming two SG-1 movies this year, so she wasn't scheduled for all twenty episodes.

For me, this is the weakest episode so far in season 4, and I would only give it a 5 out of 10. Next week's episode looks far more interesting.
I agree that it is the weakest episode this season (and it did remind me of Prometheus Unbound), but it was a set up episode. The travelers are out there. They have an Ancient battleship. They are a desperate bunch of people who'll do anything to survive. This episode may not have been a 10/10, but there is definitely potential for the future.

At the end of the day, we got some John whump and some new friends (foes?). That's not so bad.

Sweetsong
October 26th, 2007, 09:00 PM
I will amend my earlier post and say that in fact, I did chuckle on time. It was when Sheppard gave his name to the guard as Reed Richards. That's really the only bit I did enjoy. Unfortunately, it got buried beneath all that other stuff. :rolleyes:

Is there some connection to that name "Reed Richards?" I think I'm missing the whole joke there, the name doesn't ring a bell.

jds1982
October 26th, 2007, 09:04 PM
Definite vibes of PU. Was the guy who beat up Shep familiar to anyone? I swear I've seen him in something before.

^Reed Richards is the leader of the Fantastic Four, which Sheppard has compared his team to.

Uber
October 26th, 2007, 09:04 PM
Is there some connection to that name "Reed Richards?" I think I'm missing the whole joke there, the name doesn't ring a bell.Reed Richards is the name of the man who goes by Mr. Fantastic of the Fantastic Four. ;)

cobraR478
October 26th, 2007, 09:24 PM
a wise man once said, "There's no such thing as original thought any more. We're all just regurgitating the same old ideas over and over again, running them down to a giant melting pot of mediocrity."

....dang, they should have known that would have come back to bite them

Thats interesting... because we come up with some amazing technologies every day for a people coming up with no original thoughts.

Just because a tv show had a plot that was kinda-sorta similar to an episode of a related television show that was ON FOR 10 YEARS AND HAD OVER 200 EPISODES doesn't mean humans don't ever have any original thought.

There has only been 1 Shakespeare. He was a genius. The same thing applies to all art. Just because there's no John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, Shakespeare, Van Gogh, [fill in favorite artistic genius here] that you personally know about right now doesn't mean we aren't capable of original thought.

EDIT: Sorry, it just really frustrates me when people talk smack about my species :P

Mack_1
October 26th, 2007, 09:29 PM
Same here.


<<YAWN>>

Oh, was that me? What a boring episode. Too much Shep, too little *anyone* else, no chemistry between Shep and Larren, obvious plot devices, a contrived Traveler ending... the list goes on. But I was too bored to keep track.

Can I join? boring episode 6/10

PU all over again, boring and slow, but nice to find out who is the "Daniel J" in the SGA, how many times has Sheppard had been capture/torture? granted he hasn't die like Daniel did, but please he needs to grow a brain.

were was the chain of command? Rodney leading the rescue mision? they should have mention at least the name Carter or Lorne to show they were following such chain in command, the episode just look like everybody was doing what they wanted.

And how many PJ are they willing to risk just to get Sepperd back, they didn't know were he was, what had happend to him, but we see like 6 PJ looking out for him.

and how many SHEPPARD's we hear on the episode?? to many!! writers, were is the imagination?

I will admit there were cool special effects, but the bla bla bla, took away from them.

Quote of epi.

Chick traveler: Sheppard!

Hopefully next week gets better??

Homeslice55
October 26th, 2007, 09:38 PM
No. That's all right. Im sorry too for being crass. I wonder if the main bridge was destroyed or just badly damaged.

Thanks, I don't know why I was so heated before... long day I guess.

I wondered the same thing about the bridge. It was probably destroyed. Just because they dramatically slowed the wraith firing on it. I was surprised the Wraith didnt just completely destroy the ship. Maybe TPTB wanted confirm that all wraith didn't know Atlantis survived and those particular wraiths were surprised by lantean tech being used?

BerrySciFi
October 26th, 2007, 09:39 PM
Wow what a wide range of opinions. I thought it was the best episode so far this season. I really didn't notice until reading some earlier posts that Carter wasn't even in the episode.(Not sure what that means- I'm still on the fence with Carter). I liked Lorne- he really needs to became a regular- although some of the regulars don't get much screen time as it is (Great cast)! I still enjoy the Shep-as-Kirk thing, as long as they don't overdo it. Not much from Teyla again, but there are SO MANY great characters that they can't all be prominent in every episode. Great episode! I think season 4 is getting better and better and I'm still on cloud 9 over season 5 next year!

WHG5885
October 26th, 2007, 09:43 PM
This was a great episode, well written, and great acting. The top 3 parts of the episode were-

Sheppard standing on the force shield staring down at the Ancient warship(that was cool).

Finding out that Ronon's gun was made by the Traveler's, I always wondered where his gun came from, still don't know exactly how he got it, but atleast we know its origin.

Sheppard used morse code to send an S.O.S.

All in all, a great ep, and I can't wait to see more of the Travelers, they seem like they are going to be an interesting race in the future.

The2ndQuest
October 26th, 2007, 09:46 PM
I really liked the episode- the whole "Ronon's gun origin" connection was a big "woah!" moment- been wondering about that gun for awhile. Also liked the Jumper search subplot (Ronon's line to Lorne was particulalry good) but I'm dissapointed it didn't have a payoff.

Found the intertial dampers bit rather amusing too, hehe!

Was that a Wraith Cruiser or Hive Ship they took down? I couldn't tell offhand.

Mattathias2.0
October 26th, 2007, 09:52 PM
I actually hadn't noticed myself Carter was not in it either until another poster mentioned it, but then we can expect her not to appear in 5 more episodes, besides this one.

The fact I had not noticed Carter's non-appearance is actually good, because it shows how hooked in I was, at an excellent episode.

I also initally noticed the striking similarities to Prometheus Unbound, but the execution was also much much different.

In PU, the style of the episode is comedic in almost every way. In this episode, however, there is some very serious moral and survival overtones, like the fact that Larrin wanted the ship in order to save her people from a serious problem (not for personal gain), how Sheppard forced the Wraith to give Larrin the Gift of Life & let the Wraith live (I had expected the Wraith to return, but was surprised when he didn't), and a few other examples.

Overall, I did very much enjoy the episode.

Ruffles
October 26th, 2007, 09:56 PM
Is there some connection to that name "Reed Richards?" I think I'm missing the whole joke there, the name doesn't ring a bell.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who didn't know who that was. :)

Freekzilla
October 26th, 2007, 10:00 PM
Very good episode. Much better than last weeks boring snooze fest. And Praise the Lord almighty, the Rodney McWhiney-isms were kept to an absolute bare minimum this week. That alone raises my rating of this episode 2 notches! And even better, no Sam Carter, worth another notch. My only complaint is, and one that others have already dwelled uopn, yes Sheppard was a bit naive again. When is he gonna learn, you just don't trust anyone so easily. But then again, it might help to look at it from another perspective. Sure, Sheppard is the Kirk of the Pegasus galaxy, but you have to admit that, 1.) he is the second in command of Atlantis and a military officer. Military regs usually frown upon fraternizing with anyone under your command, civilian or not. So, romantic rendezvous are probably not something he gets to think about much, if at all. 2.) He has been in the Peggy galax for what, 4 years now, can you say blue? Maybe he just wants some fresh company and something away from his job for a change. Rodney did say this was the first time that Sheppard volunteered for a resupply mission. So maybe it was not entirely about where he was going, just that he was going. Cut the guy some slack, he's only human. I don't remember anyone complaining when Jack O'Neill kirked.

Possible spoiler, but more of a prediction based on this episode's content.
In a way, I see these "Travelers" as a sort of replacement for the Genii. AKA, an overly hostile and duplicit group of people. I know the Genii are not gone from the universe, and may return in the future. Now, let me just say this, and it's my prediction. I can see the writing on the wall. IE: A producer says that a new race will be introduced and will be sort of a wild card. Meet the Travelers. If you've perused Joe Mallozzi's blog, and have paid close attention to the pictures posted, particularly the symbols, I know that the Genii make a return sometime in the future, and I thinkit's this season too. So, my prediction is, that the Genii and the Travelers will join forces. This would drastically shift the nature of things for our beloved Atlantis expedition. And if you really think about it, it kind of makes sense. Each brings something to the table that helps the other.

I am a little suprized though. The writing of this episode is much better than I expected. I was a bit concerned when JM and PM took over. So far though, they've done a good job.

Now, I wonder who the Travelers technology is based on. Rodney didn't recognize the configuration or energy signature. So, prior to the Ancient-Wraith war, were there any advanced groups? Or did the Travelers advance after the war? Or is it a hodge podge of many different technologies?

And will the fact that Sheppard let that Wraith go have any consequences? It's not exactly the kind of thing the Wraith are used to. That Wraith may also have been supprized that Sheppard knew about the de-feeding aspect.

One problem I have, and correct me if I am wrong. But as far as I can remember, Wraith Cruisers have never carried Darts before. Didn't know they could. Am I wrong on this? Or is it a new aspect we just haven't seen before?

Overall though, good episode. Not the greatest, but far far far better than some.

DelTrax1
October 26th, 2007, 10:04 PM
I don't know about you but why the hell would he kiss her when he could just take off with the ship. I just don't get why once they can't get something that doesn't blow up in their face.

beneaththeblue
October 26th, 2007, 10:09 PM
YES! Best ep of the season so far!! Can't wait to see them again-- would be interesting to see more races like them (space pirates)..SG-1 should havd had some races like the Travelers, and not like the TOLAN...

Um...Lucian Alliance? And while I also thought this was another SG1 ripoff, I felt it was derived as much from the SG1 ep(Company of Thieves) about the Lucian Alliance hijacking the Odyssey and forcing Sam to make repairs.

I like Shep as much as the next person, but this episode was mediocre and predictable. The "chemistry" between him and Larrin seemed forced, his escape from the Travelers was unexplained and terribly convenient.
Next week's at least looks like it might have a more original storyline

funks
October 26th, 2007, 10:11 PM
They. Lost. Another. Ancient. Warship. Why.

Do they really need another ancient warship? IMHO, i'd rather have them work on getting the asgard knowledge and weaponry added to the new ships.. Those upgrades were able to go toe to toe with the ori.

Lythisrose
October 26th, 2007, 10:19 PM
I am one of those who enjoyed this episode. It was a very entertainaing hour and as I love Shep, there really was no downside for me. Although this wasn't my favorite episode so far this season (and I could take or leave Larrin), it was not bad at all.
I don't think our crew should have attempted to "appropriate" the ancient ship, even if they could; salvage rights to the Travelers, fair and square. That would make our guys the Pirates of the Pegasus Galaxy, or something...
:)

cobraR478
October 26th, 2007, 10:20 PM
Um...Lucian Alliance?

There were two similarities to the Lucian Alliance that I saw.
1) They are both mostly human groups
2) They both have space ships

Other than that... one group is a nomadic tribe trying to survive in harsh conditions, the other is basically organized criminals.

Its sort of like comparing the mob to some african tribe. (ignoring the technology)

kadosho
October 26th, 2007, 10:21 PM
Definitely a fun episode. Plus how could you not want to see Sheppard runnin solo again. (and of course getting into trouble, and finding a way out with some help) Just in his usual unorthodox way of doing so.

*Reed Richards, hehe.. loved that one. I think he did pull a "Reed" in this ep. F4 fans should notice some hint somewhere. Its just a crazy lil quirk that pops up in the comics and 2 films.

Bit surprised about the "Travelers", they definitely felt familiar, yet stranger characteristics. Trust, by actions, not by words alone. Gotta admit Lorin (hope i spelled her name right) quite a bold character, she seemed like yin - to Sheppard's yang. thought id spin that in there. =D

Loved this one. Curious to see where things go next.

DelTrax1
October 26th, 2007, 10:25 PM
Well...I did like the episode but I was a little bummed that it was like Prom. Unbound. It did however keep me watching so I guess it did it's job. I do wish they would start doing stories that don't match up with Sg-1 in some ways. More stories about the Ancients maybe.

Lythisrose
October 26th, 2007, 10:26 PM
Just a gripe, not really so much about the episode itself (so prob belongs somewhere else, sorry), but if you have a DVR or other recording device set to the exact time noted in the TV guide, you will be cutting off the last minute or so of the show! (guess I'm just foolish for not setting it up for a little longer before and after). Anyway, still found Travelers a good epi.

majorsal
October 26th, 2007, 10:31 PM
that was a nice episode. nothing fantastic, but NOT another 'prometheus unbound'! (:eek: and whew)

the only negative i can state was the actress that played larrin (jill wagner). the character was interesting enough, but i felt the actress couldn't do her justice. joe flanigan's got great timing and i felt she was 'meh'.

sheppard had me laughing in a couple of spots - the looking at his food and asking if this was another form of torture and then telling the wraith that he couldn't grow another head. :p

oh, for this only being my fifth ep, i finally got to see a wraith feed! :D (still think they look like rockstar vampires :p)

cute with mckay being ticked about not getting the babe capturers and teyla rolling her eyes. :p

all in all, i learned to enjoy (;)) sheppard even more. :sheppard:




sally :D

majorsal
October 26th, 2007, 10:41 PM
were was the chain of command? Rodney leading the rescue mision? they should have mention at least the name Carter or Lorne to show they were following such chain in command, the episode just look like everybody was doing what they wanted.


i'll agree on this. sam wasn't needed to be shown necessarily (she couldn't, since amanda was filming the sg1 movies), but at least a mention of someone steering the ship. but it wasn't a biggie, ep wise, to me.



sally :)

LoneStar1836
October 26th, 2007, 10:48 PM
ugh.. I was so excited for this episode. But to me:

Travelers=Prometheus Unbound

I will give this though: Travelers is the better version.Agreed.

While I completely despise PU (such an appropriate abbreviation for that ep) and think it's one of the worst episodes of SG-1 ever, Travelers luckily avoids that fate by not incorporating the crude, juvenile humor as well as a bunch of other elements I dislike about PU, but it still wasn't a satisfying episode.

I wasn't anticipating this episode even though I had read where others on GW were. Hadn't read anything about it, so the promo was the only info I had on this episode though I guess I wasn't paying very close attention to that either. On the other hand, I was really looking forward to PU when it was announced, but then came away disgusted at how it turned out.

When the "sexy alien" captor was revealed, like Teyla, I had to roll my eyes. Loved her eye-roll. :D Another Kirking episode was in store, but it wasn't as cringe-worthy as I thought it would be. So that coupled with an unimaginative plot, some uninspiring dialogue, and the actress playing Larrin didn't make for all that entertaining an episode. While I like the actors playing the two dudes who bit the dust, her acting was off. Though I usually don't care for/am annoyed by the actors as well as some of the crappy dialogue they are given for parts like theirs.

Anyway the Shep whumping, getting a clue about the origin of Ronan's sidearm, and the shallowness of getting to watch JF on screen for the majority of the episode were the only things I found mildly interesting about this one. Oh and Major Lorne's appearance even though it wasn't very substantial.

I'm guessing we will see these people again somewhere down the road since this appears to be a set-up episode.

Overall, Travelers was a lackluster episode. The story was not very engaging. It gets a "meh" rating from me. Not a horribly bad episode, but not a satisfyingly good episode either. So far, the weakest episode of the season, imo. Next week's looks better...or at least the promos look interesting.

Amakusa
October 26th, 2007, 10:54 PM
I am more interested in the Wraith that Shepherd let go. If he keeps that up more than one Wraith out there is going to learn that this guy is an honorable dude.

Balmung
October 26th, 2007, 11:06 PM
i liked it.

plot twists, happy ending, open stories to the future.

great, only if all non-main-arc-episodes were as good as this :)

Leliana McKay
October 26th, 2007, 11:49 PM
The episode was okay I guess, entertaining but not that awesome unless your only purpose in life is Shep whump, Shep acting like Kirk or Sheppard in general.

My first thought was...
Where is Sam? No explanation given, Rodney seems to be in charge (love that thought! Rodney fangirl giggling,)

I loved the conversation Rodney and John had over the radio. Rodney thinks John only volonteered for the mission to one of his scientific outposts because it is located on a socially inhibited planet. lol

Fav scenes: Larrin punching John in the face three times (gotta love the girl who doesn't become a Sheppard groupies and kicks his ass!)

Questions: okay, why is there a Chair room aboard a ship? I thought that the weapon control systems where in the MAIN control room. But to anwer my own question...the Wraiths destroy the Lantian Main control room so I guess we know why the writers needed a CHAIR room!!
But there's also an AUXILIARY control room = How many control rooms are there on a Lantian ship? *Confused*

I liked: John doing his impersonation of Rodney playing with the crystals and actually getting the chair to work (I was impressed, I guess he learned from the best!)

The romance thingy: Sheppard saves the girl twice, get locked in an empty closet with her, kisses her (This sounds cliché and obviously targeting a certain audience. I don't mind, but please not too much either!)

I was not happy: with the lack of team obviously. SGA-1 was rather useless. Rodney is not up to his usual standard, Ronon and Teyla barely say two words, Lorne is there but to what end?

The episode ends is good. Rodney's famous line from the promo teasers "For once I would like to be captured by the sexy alien" to which John answers "Well, she is still out there". TEAM INTERACTION!!! Teyla rolling her eyes...just great.


Aren't the Travelers supposed to appear in next week's episode Tabula Rasa? Or some other episode this season?

Redhooks
October 26th, 2007, 11:49 PM
A couple of thoughts on Travelers:
Too many things were left not shown or unanswered to me that I think could have been added to make a more than one episode story, but not enough for a two episode story without the addition of another sub-plot.

No real mention that the Travelers got some of their stuff from scavenging and looting other cultures that the Wraith have culled as some of TPTB stated in interviews. I would have liked more info about their history, but I guess some people probably would have gotten bored and TPTB thought they needed more action.

Thought we would get more info on Ronon's gun then what was shown. Just because the Travelers have them doesn't mean they made them and I thought a mention by Sheppard to Ronon at the cafeteria table was needed.

Even though I was happy not to see Col. Carter in this episode, I agree that a mention that she approved the mission would seem logical and would have taken one sentence from Lorne about her order not to risk the rescue mission personnel unecessarily.

Sheppard should have said when Larrin asked about the detector he got from the Auxilary Control room that it wouldn't work for her because she doesn't have the gene. Then to his surprise, it would work and then he could have said he never saw one that only needed to be initialized. That would have answered some of the questions about Larrin using it before they could be asked.

I wonder how much extra footage had to be cut from this episode that could have explained some of the questions I have about Ronon's gun, the Travelers history/culture, Larrin using the LSD, and why was McKay more worried about Larrin and not about the Ancient Warship and what kind of tech the Travelers have. Joe Mallozzi talked about how much was dropped from Reunion and I wonder how much, if any, ended up on the editing room floor?

One bad directing bit I noticed was near the beginning when Larrin has Sheppard shoved into the hanger bay. Why does she have to walk over about 5 feet in order to stand? To show the hallway of the Travelers ship behind her to justify the cost of making it? About two steps should have been enough to allow the crewman to activate the hanger bay controls.

I think there were too many clips released early from the episode and they gave away too much of the plot. To me, it would have been better if we didn't know the Wraith were in the episode prior to it airing.

For the people commenting on Jill Wagner's acting, as a fan of hers, I will say that she will probably never win an acting award, but, I think she does an adequate job considering she is fairly new in acting and I think she is getting better with every role. Compare her acting now to some of your favorites when they were starting out and also realize she got a Bachelors degree in Business and didn't go through acting school like most actors. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I thought it wasn't the best written of episodes with some of the things I have mentioned above making me ask more questions than I should have to of a story IMO.

I'm sure I will think of more after I have watched the episode some more times.

female Wraith
October 27th, 2007, 12:22 AM
Good episode. Wraith survived! And the ancient ship! I can't believe it!

freetoken
October 27th, 2007, 01:12 AM
Agreed.

Another Kirking episode was in store, but it wasn't as cringe-worthy as I thought it would be.

Well, I cringed. Yet another JTK wanna-be, seducing (or seduced by) the evil but sexy alien. To me it is one of the silliest parts of Atlantis.



So that coupled with an unimaginative plot, some uninspiring dialogue, and the actress playing Larrin didn't make for all that entertaining an episode. While I like the actors playing the two dudes who bit the dust, her acting was off. Though I usually don't care for/am annoyed by the actors as well as some of the crappy dialogue they are given for parts like theirs.

Concur with your general synopsis. Hope they will be more creative (and more engagingly acted) in the rest of the season. I've rather liked the first 4 episodes, and this was the first one in which I felt like I was wasting my time.

garhkal
October 27th, 2007, 01:22 AM
pretty nice episode--I thought Larin was done for after the Wraith got her

So did i, but i loved how shepard remembered what happened in Common ground and got the wraith to give her life back.. though i do wonder why he let the wraith go in the end after getting the stunner...


ugh.. I was so excited for this episode. But to me:

Travelers=Prometheus Unbound

I feel like they are borrowing too many things from SG-1. Just new characters.

Other than PU had vala 'using saving her people and needing the ship' similarities to this, i do not see them being equal or based on one another. Heck this was imo a lot better AND Lara was truer to her motives than Vala was..


YEAH! For once, an Ancient ship SURVIVES!!!!!

Though for how long??:cool:

c
Nice to find out information on Ronan’s gun.[/quote]

Other than they also had them, we did not really find anything new about them. Do the travelers make them? Did they also get them from somewhere? Did ronon get his from them? Not a single question on them was answered..


Ooooo Laren got wraithed. I could see it coming only after she shut the door but otherwise it was an unexpected turn in the show. I was however, immediately thinking about how Shep was going to threaten the wraith into de-wraithing her.

I too expected her to get wraithified, but was actually surprised that Shep thought of doing what he did.



Good job with Teyla talking about negotiation and fairly OK reason not to given by the others. Big old ataboy to Sheppard for actually managing to talk and establish and alliance and without any sex jokes.

True, it was nice to see him make a deal without making sexual references..


One question though. Why did the weapons have to be fired from the control chair? Why not the bridge?

IMO 2 reasons.. 1 in atlantis the chair is seperated from the control room, so maybe there is some reasoning for having it separated that we don't know of, such as some form of interference from other tech. 2) safety. First target when you have an enemies shields down is take out the bridge (which the wraith did do) THEN engines/weapons etc.. Having the chair separated from the bridge protects it and allows someone to still return fire.


- What was the name of the ship?

I am surprised we did not find out its name as well..


I liked this episode but the constant betraying got a little old.

The Wraith boarding the ship was a great add to the story.

Agreed, the constant betraying was a little trite... the first few times i could see it and even liked it, but the ones near the end was unnecessary.


And how gutsy for Shep to threaten the Wraith with a drained gun. Plus the look on his face as he watched the life go back into Larrin. I suspect a little Common Ground remembrance going on in his head.

Agreed on both parts, the look of horror (or was it shock) on his face was priceless, and i do wonder what shep would have done had the wraith NOT complied..
Gutsy, i will give him that.


I loved that Teyla and Ronon listened patiently to McKay's technobabble about the morse code. *team love* And Ronon's statement that it didn't matter if it was a fleet of hive ships, they wouldn't turn back (and Lorne agreeing). *happy sigh*

Yup. That was a great team moment. And i loved how rodney was like "you know how i said there are just times you cannot do anything... well this is not one of those".


One thing I have a question about. Why couldn't Atlantis's sensors pick up the Ancient warship? It was active after all.

Distance.. We know from the siege that her sensors are not all galaxy encompassing, and we also don't know how far away shep and co were from atlantis.'



Also how do they know so much about Ancient tech? I missed the first few minutes. It can't be that easy to fix an ancient hyper drive system.

They have lived their lives on those ships of theirs so had much knowledge on hyperdrives.. And IMO the type of tech from one races hyperdrive is not going to be that much more different than any others...



I do like the idea of the Travelers and humans in the Pegasus Galaxy that found a way to maintain their advanced technology and escape the Wraith. It would have been nice to have seen more of their culture, but I understand time constraints..

Agreed. It would have been great to know more of their past, like which planet (or group) they initially came from. How many of them there are. Where they got the ships (and guns) from..


Wasn't our ship to begin with. It was theirs. What if they had not kidnapped Sheppard, do you think we should have attacked them and stolen it?

Being that they required shep to use it, i don't really see it as being theirs. And with how some here are all for us kidnapping and mind messing with that chick from the Brotherhood to get the info on their ZPM so we can get it, i can easily see them feeling we should have attacked/blown them up and taken the ship by force..


It wasn't his to lose. He never owned it. It was clear that it was the travelers ship. Him being kidnapped doesn't make it his.

And how was it theirs? Just cause they found it first, does not make it theirs any more than ours since we are required to use it.



Some of the dialog wasn't all that great either. Shep's "This just...isn't...RIGHT!" when he's suspended over space comes to mind, yikes. :S

I loved that scene.. Especially since it came after we learned she loves to jetteson people out into space who displease her.. THen we saw the lantean ship underneath...


They. Lost. Another. Ancient. Warship. Why.

We never had it in the first place, so how could we lose it>?>



And will the fact that Sheppard let that Wraith go have any consequences? It's not exactly the kind of thing the Wraith are used to. That Wraith may also have been supprized that Sheppard knew about the de-feeding aspect.

One problem I have, and correct me if I am wrong. But as far as I can remember, Wraith Cruisers have never carried Darts before. Didn't know they could. Am I wrong on this? Or is it a new aspect we just haven't seen before?


I do wonder if that piece of info will make the wraith more worried or more inquisitive that humans now know of that titbit of information. And as to the cruiser, i always thought htey did have a few... Even if they were only for cruiser to hive travel... Remember in Aurora, that dart looking ship was headin for those 2 cruisers which were coming to check on the ship..



Thought we would get more info on Ronon's gun then what was shown. Just because the Travelers have them doesn't mean they made them and I thought a mention by Sheppard to Ronon at the cafeteria table was needed.

That is true... i am surprised shep did not mention it on screen to his crew (or ronon at least) about the gun connection..

Kliggins
October 27th, 2007, 01:24 AM
I was bored, I needed chocolate to make it through the episode.

Reusing, rehashing, adapting, or whatever the writers want to call it a script from 2-1/2 years ago is pretty sad I think. At least go back 5 or 6 years and pick a better script to reuse, rehash, or adapt.

It was lovely to see Lorne in the episode though.

morjana
October 27th, 2007, 01:36 AM
Bravo Joe M. and Paul M. - excellent episode!

Shep whumpage!

Loved Larrin.

"Reed Richards" - LOL! So is that a secret desire that Shep wants to be able to stretch himself, or to be married to Susan Storm (or Jessica Alba, who played SS in the flicks). And I know that Joe M. is a comic afficianado...

We found out (possbily) where Ronon's weapon is from...

Shep knows Morse code?

More Shep whumpage!

Ronon, McKay, Teyla and Lorne off to the rescue. Sigh, Kavan Smith has the most beautiful eyes...

Wraith!

More Shep whumpage.

Oohhh...Larrin gets Wraithed - but wait, Shep cons the Wraith in reversing the life sucking.

An aliance with the Travelers? Yes, please, I'd like to see Larrin again.

Larrin returns in 'Be All My Sins Remember'd,' which is scheduled to air January 4, 2008

You know, it's a good thing these spaceships aren't coal powered. It would make it awfully hard for one guy to run the spaceship like they do now. Shep would have to lot of running to the engine room to shovel coal, and the back to the bridge to control the ship.

Very enjoyable episode. What a hoot!

Morjana

morjana
October 27th, 2007, 01:58 AM
I'm glad the ship wasn't destroyed, but the stupid Travelers (worst. race. ever...

You mean in the SGA universe?

Or in SciFi general?

If you meant SciFi general, the WORST race would be from ST: TNG - the Pakled from the ST:TNG episode, 'Samaritan Snare'

From Memory Alpha: "The Pakleds are driven by their unwillingness to wait to gain their own technological knowledge. They therefore try to acquire technology from other species, generally by theft."

When I read first the plot description for Travelers, the first thing I thought of was this ST:TNG episode and the Pakled's.

Fortunately, the Travelers in no way resemble the Pakled's, either in physical form or mental prowess.

Morjana

Shan Bruce Lee
October 27th, 2007, 01:59 AM
I am more interested in the Wraith that Shepherd let go. If he keeps that up more than one Wraith out there is going to learn that this guy is an honorable dude.

It's like honor among thieves without the stealing. It gives them a chance to introduce more individual wraith characters like Micheal - I hope they get into that.

AutumnDream
October 27th, 2007, 01:59 AM
Wow. That was not at all interesting or engaging. Usually I start with the + but today I'll start with the - .

- In terms of basic plot, this was derivative, predictable, and dull. We have seen characters stranded in space on derelict ships billions of times before and Travelers handled the concept more poorly than almost any example you can name from any series. There was nothing compelling about it at all - from the general scenario, to the technical problems, the character interaction, the (non-existent) character development, the action scenes, the infantile humor... the list goes on. It failed to provide points of interest all across the board.

- So there's a new group of people. Okay, so they live in space and are having trouble. The other thing we learned about them was... oh, oops! There was nothing else, had to make room for intense sexual tension!, goofy quips!, and action shots! Seriously, why are we supposed to care about these people, or even be interested in them? This was their introductory episode and we only "got to know" one of them. If the viewer doesn't care about the shiny new aliens the episode is centered around, how do you expect the episode to succeed as a work? Besides Larrin, who was a cheesy overdone rogue female archetype, the other Travelers we met were mere henchmen.

- Larrin is the leader of her people? Really? Why? How did she become the leader? Why is someone so young in such a position? What's the immediate history of her people? Their long term history? (Aside from vague, skimmed-over references.) Were they originally a planet of people that took to space at the last moment? Were they a rag-tag fleet assembled from various planets whose names are not even remembered now? How has the presence of such a group effected the Pegasus Galaxy? Did they salvage technology from Sateda once it was destroyed? Do they have any other potentially interesting connections to things we know? This sort of information would have made the episode much more compelling. The showrunners would probably say, "Hey there! We can't go giving it all away at the start!" I know they usually consider this sort of basic information material for an elaborate 5-season arc, but it's stuff that should be covered in the first 20 minutes. No, that doesn't mean endless boring exposition. There are more ways to structure a story than putting characters in a room telling each other what they are about to do, and subsequently having them go do it, cue short closing scene. What if - and I know this will be shocking to some- you cut out the parts that make the show indistinguishable from a cartoon targeted at preteens and focused on developing the "civilization" you so heavily promoted as a major new element for the season? For Stargate, this is a pretty unique idea. It's incredible how dismal the handling of it was.

-All the silly leather. Are they superheroes? Is that Larrin's casual wear? Battle wear? Why the cleavage then? This is supposed to be the central figure to the race you are trying to introduce and she saunters on screen, kind of coming off as a total ass. Are we supposed to take her and her race seriously, or roll our eyes and accept that Sheppard will easily outsmart them, if not for...

-Sheppard thinking with the wrong head. Again. Yeah, man. Rock on, Shep. It's totally rad to make out with chicks that just - as you put it - kidnapped you, tortured you, and threatened to throw you out an airlock. Just drop your guard like a good little trained military officer trapped in a hostile environment with untrustworthy company and outright foes around and slobber all over her. I sure am glad it's you looking out for the safety of the Pegasus Galaxy! Hey, and no pressure - if you need a lay, you need a lay. Don't worry too much about things like your personal safety or the mission, just get yourself some sweet ass. This is not a gritty, realistic character flaw in Sheppard. It's asinine, it's outside the realm of believability, and it's idiocy. You not only devalue him as a character when you do this, but you damage our perception of all his current and subsequent relationships. If the man is willing to trade saliva with a hostile stranger, what exactly are his standards for relationships, remantic or otherwise? Is this man a total joke or what? If he actually has some form of neurosis that causes him to behave this way, please make it known ASAP. My gods. 13 year old boys are writing this drivel.

- Just had to mention the juvenile humor in its own point.

+ Carter wasn't in the episode.

+ Decent visual effects.

bluealien
October 27th, 2007, 02:01 AM
Incorrect, he couldn't keep it in his pants and because of that he ****ed up again!

Um ...what are you talking about?.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 27th, 2007, 02:03 AM
Well, I cringed. Yet another JTK wanna-be, seducing (or seduced by) the evil but sexy alien. To me it is one of the silliest parts of Atlantis.

What's so silly about it?

morjana
October 27th, 2007, 02:09 AM
Also, why does every Ancient ship have to be damaged?

Maybe because the Ancient ships are 10,000 years old?


Also, why didn't they just dock on the warship? Duh. No brainer.

There could have been several reasons, including (but not limited to):

1) Maybe the Puddle Jumper couldn't tell the status of the Ancient ship's shields. If they're on, the Jumper can't dock.

2) Perhaps Lorne didn't want to commit a jumper to docking with the ship. For the very reason as to what happened -- the ship jumped into hyperspace. If the jumper had docked, it would have went with the ship.

Morjana

bluealien
October 27th, 2007, 02:16 AM
Kirking :)

How do you come to this conclusion. So a man and woman in the same room now means kirking. Shep acted the way he always does. He snarks and charms his way out of a situation.. with women and men, that is who is he. That does not consitute Kirking to me at all. So all his escape attempts and locking up Larrrin and sending a signal to his people is somehow called kirking.!! So he trusted her.. well after saving her life twice I could see how he thougt he could trust her... she came onto him so again I can't really say how that was kirking on his part. He let his guard down because he trusted her..nothing to do with kirking.

Her people would have arrived in minutes anyway so he didnt really ever stand a chance of keeping the Atlantean ship anyway...

OobeDoobBenubi
October 27th, 2007, 02:17 AM
Some good funny bits but the episode was bleh. One funny bit is when the guy said in the beginning that John said his name was Reed Richards :cool: I wish they filmed that bit & it was also funny when the leader said "Does he look like a man who is going to die" & John is just sitting there being bored.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 27th, 2007, 02:22 AM
Wow. That was not at all interesting or engaging. Usually I start with the + but today I'll start with the - .

- In terms of basic plot, this was derivative, predictable, and dull. We have seen characters stranded in space on derelict ships billions of times before and Travelers handled the concept more poorly than almost any example you can name from any series. There was nothing compelling about it at all - from the general scenario, to the technical problems, the character interaction, the (non-existent) character development, the action scenes, the infantile humor... the list goes on. It failed to provide points of interest all across the board.

- So there's a new group of people. Okay, so they live in space and are having trouble. The other thing we learned about them was... oh, oops! There was nothing else, had to make room for intense sexual tension!, goofy quips!, and action shots! Seriously, why are we supposed to care about these people, or even be interested in them? This was their introductory episode and we only "got to know" one of them. If the viewer doesn't care about the shiny new aliens the episode is centered around, how do you expect the episode to succeed as a work? Besides Larrin, who was a cheesy overdone rogue female archetype, the other Travelers we met were mere henchmen.

- Larrin is the leader of her people? Really? Why? How did she become the leader? Why is someone so young in such a position? What's the immediate history of her people? Their long term history? (Aside from vague, skimmed-over references.) Were they originally a planet of people that took to space at the last moment? Were they a rag-tag fleet assembled from various planets whose names are not even remembered now? How has the presence of such a group effected the Pegasus Galaxy? Did they salvage technology from Sateda once it was destroyed? Do they have any other potentially interesting connections to things we know? This sort of information would have made the episode much more compelling. The showrunners would probably say, "Hey there! We can't go giving it all away at the start!" I know they usually consider this sort of basic information material for an elaborate 5-season arc, but it's stuff that should be covered in the first 20 minutes. No, that doesn't mean endless boring exposition. There are more ways to structure a story than putting characters in a room telling each other what they are about to do, and subsequently having them go do it, cue short closing scene. What if - and I know this will be shocking to some- you cut out the parts that make the show indistinguishable from a cartoon targeted at preteens and focused on developing the "race" you so heavily promoted as a major new element for the season?

-All the silly leather. Are they superheroes? Is that Larrin's casual wear? Battle wear? Why the cleavage then? This is supposed to be the central figure to the race you are trying to introduce and she saunters on screen, kind of coming off as a total ass. Are we supposed to take her and her race seriously, or roll our eyes and accept that Sheppard will easily outsmart them, if not for...

-Sheppard thinking with the wrong head. Again. Yeah, man. Rock on, Shep. It's totally rad to make out with chicks that just - as you put it - kidnapped you, tortured you, and threatened to throw you out an airlock. Just drop your guard like a good little trained military officer trapped in a hostile environment with untrustworthy foes around and slobber all over her. I sure am glad it's you looking out for the safety of the Pegasus Galaxy! Hey, and no pressure - if you need a lay, you need a lay. Don't worry too much about things like your personal safety or the mission, just get yourself some sweet ass.

- Just had to mention the juvenile humor in its own point.

+ Carter wasn't in the episode.

+ Decent visual effects.

tptb are just trying to expand their audience and not just pander to their base. A little more action and less techno-babble is a good thing. They're getting rid of the exposition and actually showing the sh*t instead.

You can't expect to find out everything about a new race in their first appearance. We learned they're a nomad tribe, they use weapons like Ronan's,they can't be trusted, and they've been actively engaging the Wraith. That's plenty of "side-story" information picked up during the more important "story-story".

Kribby
October 27th, 2007, 02:35 AM
Other than.... WTF was up with the wraith hair??? That one dude looked like he had freaking PIGTAILS!!

HA!

That's what I said!

Redhooks
October 27th, 2007, 02:38 AM
tptb are just trying to expand their audience and not just pander to their base. A little more action and less techno-babble is a good thing. They're getting rid of the exposition and actually showing the sh*t instead. Really? That is just your opinion, I sort of like the "techno-babble" if it is written properly. Stories don't have to all be action shoot'em ups to be good.


You can't expect to find out everything about a new race in their first appearance. We learned they're a nomad tribe, they use weapons like Ronan's,they can't be trusted, and they've been actively engaging the Wraith. That's plenty of "side-story" information picked up during the more important "story-story".I must have missed that point about them "engaging" the Wraith especially since they are always trying to avoid them. :S I disagree with you about "plenty of side-story information" just some vague references IMO.

Kribby
October 27th, 2007, 02:40 AM
Okay episode but far from the best so far...considering we have only seen 5 eps.

Way too much like PU episode on over all arc. Not enough bad guys or Wraith...I was wondering if the girl was supposed to be this "New Enemy" that was advertised or Sheps version of Taming of the Shrew.

Really missed Dr. Weir and Carson Beckett.

Teyla is still wall paper. Ronin still a totem pole and Rodney was actually missed this ep.

Shep does need more developing--how many times is he gonna fall for the same trick? Yes, shep--she's gonna screw you over.

I would give it a 7 ot of 10 scale IMO


You know, I missed Rodney as well... UNTIL Shep started being all mostly technical! He was fixing stuff! I considered him out of character (for a moment) and then I decided...'Duh, it has been 3.25 years. He has to learned more than a little something, something.'

morjana
October 27th, 2007, 02:43 AM
Aren't the Travelers supposed to appear in next week's episode Tabula Rasa? Or some other episode this season?

Larrin returns in 'Be All My Sins Remember'd,' which is scheduled to air January 4, 2008.


Morjana

AutumnDream
October 27th, 2007, 02:51 AM
tptb are just trying to expand their audience and not just pander to their base. A little more action and less techno-babble is a good thing.

Stargate has always been primarily action-adventures. One of the first episodes of SG-1 had O'Neill kirking some ditzy chick. But even Brief Candle was miles above Travelers, because it was A) Ten years ago - times have changed, and B) Was not attempting to do something as big as this episode. The success of Brief Candle hinged solely upon developing O'Neill and the others by exposing their desperation and connections to one other, and it did fairly well for what it was. The success of Travelers as a concept was dependent on the viewer's interest in the - you guessed it - Travelers. Which was zero. I loathe technobabble and don't see how you extrapolated from my post that I was asking for more. I was asking for some semblance of meaningful information or dialogue in the script.



They're getting rid of the exposition and actually showing the sh*t instead.

What did they show? Sheppard getting threatened. Sheppard getting hit. A wraith ship getting fried. Sheppard getting threatened again. Larrin getting hit. Wraith getting hit. There's a pattern here. What do you mean by "getting rid of the exposition"? Are you saying this stuff could have been conveyed through speech? That's not what I was getting at. I explicitly said that more story content does not mean pages upon pages of exposition.



You can't expect to find out everything about a new race in their first appearance. We learned they're a nomad tribe, they use weapons like Ronan's,they can't be trusted, and they've been actively engaging the Wraith. That's plenty of "side-story" information picked up during the more important "story-story".

Oh. Wow. That's some meaty information. I think it'll take me the month or so until they show up again to process the philosophical ramifications of "they can't be trusted".

That is deep, man. How do the writers do it?!!?




You can't expect to find out everything about a new race in their first appearance.

I expect to learn something.

PS: This is one of those Atlantis episodes where the best part is seeing what ShadowMaat, ToasterOnFire, and Ouroborous said about it afterwards. ;)

JSPuddlejumper
October 27th, 2007, 03:36 AM
Predictable.

As for the Ancient warship, you all knew that

1) Either it was going to be destroyed
2) The Atlantis team will not have it


And whatever happened to the Tria from The Return????? The Atlantis team must have that Ancient warship. Or is it another f up from the writers?

jds1982
October 27th, 2007, 03:49 AM
I think we can probably assume the Tria is destroyed. Either they got it back to Atlantis and the Asurans fried it, or the Atlantis expedition got it and we know what they do with ships they acquire.

Alipeeps
October 27th, 2007, 03:54 AM
Wow. I loved this episode. So much so I barely know where to start so I shall just ramble randomly about bits I particularly liked.. :D

Okay so...

I liked the Travelers. Liked the concept of them and how they lived etc. I actually very much liked Larrin and thought her combative relationship with Sheppard was very good. I had been a bit concerned that this would be a little cheesy or overdone but it actually played out very well - she was a strong, feisty character and she was trying to do right by her people.. and Sheppard was using his brains and doing his best to outwit her.

I really liked Sheppard in this episode - it was nice to see him being resourceful and sneaky and having to deal with things on his own. I was getting flashes of the Sheppard we saw in The Storm and The Eye - the way he was thinking fast and outwitting a suprerior enemy force etc. Coolness. It was nice to see Sheppard being competent, whilst still maintaing the Sheppard humour and laid-back character that we know. Loved that he was so competent in working with the Lantean technology... and knew where to look and what to do when things broke! TPTB do tend to play Sheppard for laughs at times and it's nice to see that referenced Mensa-level intelligence actually being out into practice... he does actually understand technology and can work with it.. he just never usually has to cos he had Rodney there to do that for him! :D

I liked the team moments in this episode too with them searching for him... in some ways this was Sheppard's Sateda with the team showing the same fear at losing him and determination to find him as they did with Ronon. Nice stuff. Although, I have to say, it did feel kinda odd not to have Carter in this episode. Now, I'm fairly ambivalent about Carter being in SGA - Yeah, I'd rather she hadn't been brought over but I've accepted that she's here and I don't dislike the character and from what I've seen so far she has fit in pretty well. So it's merely from a logical point of view - and not a fannish pro or anti Carter standpoint - that I say that it seemed kind of odd, in the situation where one of the most important members of the expedition is missing, presumed captured, to not have had the leader of the expedition at all involved in the discussions about getting him back. I guess we can assume those discussion took place off-screen... but it just seemed kinda odd.. as through Rodney and co were taking the decisions and doing whatever they wanted without reference to any higher authority (imagine in Sateda if we hadn't seen Weir involved in discussing/planning how to get Ronon back).

Anyhooo... I also loved the focus on Sheppard in this episode. In previous episodes that have been considered "Sheppard-heavy", such as Common Ground, there has still been a lot of plot happening away from Sheppard (all the stuff with Ladon etc on Atlantis), whereas in this episode it was all about Sheppard and the b-plot for the team was simply them trying to find him. In this sense, this episode felt very much to me like Sheppard's version of Grace Under Pressure or The Real World. Now, I'm not saying that I'd want to see that every week because I adore the team interactions and some my favourite episodes are the ones where everyone has something to do, but as a Sheppard fan it was certainly nice to get such a focus on him for this one episode. It's been a long time coming.

I enjoyed the plot and how the balance of power kept shifting back and forth between Sheppard and Larrin. Even though we'd seen a lot of clips from this episode, there was still a lot that surprised me - Larrin being drained by the Wraith and Sheppard forcing it to give her her life back was certainly one thing. And I haven't read through this thread yet but I'm sure the anti-kirkers will be up in arms and accusing Sheppard of all kinds of horrendous, unprofessional behaviour etc etc etc and I really don't care. I liked Larrin, I liked the flirty, one-up-manship of their relationship and I liked the kiss - and the subsequent stunning. Oh yes, that reminds me of something else I liked in this episode... the whump! Woohooo! :D

Okay, what else..? Umm.. ooh the gun. Ronon's style gun. Interesting stuff - though we still don't know its origins.. are they made by the Travelers and Ronon got his hands on one? Or did they scavange them from the same place he got his? Interesting to see it run out of charge/ammunition. We';ve seen Ronon reloading it once, before intending to use it, but he always seems to happily shoot it about all over the place and never worry about having to reload it. Though I guess it had been used quite a bit before it ran out.. what with shooting through the wall etc. I also loved the little hommage moment where Sheppard did a little Ronon-style twirl of the gun. :D

Speaking of Ronon - I loved his line in the jumper "Does it matter? Even if it was a fleet of hive ships, would that stop us from trying to get him back?" Lovely line - so nice to see an actual expression from the team of how much Sheppard means to them - we';ve seen it often enough in reverse.

Right. I think I've run out of waffle for now. I may return as further points occur to me... :D

ashman2
October 27th, 2007, 03:57 AM
I was under the iimpression that JM said we would see the Tria in season 4. Overall I thought this episode was quite entertaining. You can't have every episode following the same format so I thought it was a nice break from the usual McKay fixing it and Ronon going Dolph Lundgren, not that I mind that, on the contrary I enjoy it, but sometimes it's nice to have a break. Not the best so far this season but still awesome.

I do have one question. Why has Ronon's gun never run out of power?

Quinn Mallory
October 27th, 2007, 04:08 AM
To me this was the weakest episode of the year thus far (just mainly due to the lack of team interaction) but still quite enjoyable. This is essentially just a more action version of Promethius Unbound. I'm not going to complain too much about an episode that has a hot sexy alien chick.

I was just a bit ticked off by the lack of urgency from the SGA team to try to rescue Sheppard. Of course, had the Daedalus and/or Apollo be available then the episode would have been quite short.

I also wasn't too pleased with the Wraith taking and then giving back life to Larrin part since that might start to become a trite plot device (we also see this in Reunion earlier this season).

Anyhow, I still thought this was a fun episode and I probably would've enjoyed it more had I not been feeling a bit under the weather myself while viewing it.

ToasterOnFire
October 27th, 2007, 04:33 AM
Um...Lucian Alliance? And while I also thought this was another SG1 ripoff, I felt it was derived as much from the SG1 ep(Company of Thieves) about the Lucian Alliance hijacking the Odyssey and forcing Sam to make repairs.
Good call, and didn't CoT have one of the thugs lusting over Carter? What is with TPTB and capture and torture scenarios that have sexual elements? The psychological undercurrents are creepy. :S


I like Shep as much as the next person, but this episode was mediocre and predictable. The "chemistry" between him and Larrin seemed forced, his escape from the Travelers was unexplained and terribly convenient.
Yep, as soon as Larrin showed up in her leather I was wondering when she was going to get the hots for Sheppers and make a move. And lo and behold, it didn't even take a day. Oh well, at least she didn't peel off her top and jump on him like that other M&M classic. :rolleyes: It would have been more worthwhile to better establish Larrin and the Travelers to make them more interesting as an ally/enemy hybrid like the Genii, or maybe telling the audience something new about Shep and his character. Instead Larrin and the Travelers were superficial and Shep ran around doing typical Shep things.


Next week's at least looks like it might have a more original storyline
Unless you've seen the movie Memento. ;)

shazzboy
October 27th, 2007, 04:38 AM
Ughh...just MORE Humans. Cant they come up with an actual new Alien species? I am sick to death of Humans, I cant not stand that bloody species!

justhere1971
October 27th, 2007, 04:40 AM
Larrin & Shep chemistry was non existent. He had better chemistry with Chaya (sp). I don't remember this actress from anywhere else. She didn't have enough menace for a leader who's constantly trying to find ways to survive and defend her people, and of course trying to avoid the wraith. So she punched Shep a few times, I bet it was a thrill.

Still not impressed by this episode.

SGFerrit
October 27th, 2007, 04:44 AM
I really enjoyed this episode, thought it was great, but...

I felt far too spoiled. I knew what was going on before it happened, it seems we have had more information and promo vids about this ep than any other. I wish I had totally avoided spoilers now lol, but that is extremely hard to do.

SGFerrit
October 27th, 2007, 04:47 AM
Oh well, at least she didn't peel off her top and jump on him like that other M&M classic. :rolleyes:


Why do people keep saying M&M write these eps together? As far as I can see, Paul wrote this episode. Joe wrote Reunion himself. That's how I understand it anyway. Just like Joe M has stated, Paul was the one that wrote The Tower, not him. Why are they credited together as writers?

Poltergeist
October 27th, 2007, 05:32 AM
Why does everyone assume that Ronon got his weapon from the Travelers instead of the other way around? I was under the impression the Travelers are a scavenger race, not only do they scavenge ancient tech, but maybe they scavenge from culled and or abandoned planets. Don’t forget in Sateda Ronon found other guns just like his on his planet when he was being hunted by the wraith.

arjumand
October 27th, 2007, 05:36 AM
Why do people keep saying M&M write these eps together? As far as I can see, Paul wrote this episode. Joe wrote Reunion himself. That's how I understand it anyway. Just like Joe M has stated, Paul was the one that wrote The Tower, not him. Why are they credited together as writers?

So who's responsible for the terrible twosome, ie Irresistible and Irresponsible? Please don't tell me that was Joe on his own! Urgh, another reason to hate that man - say it ain't so, Joe!

Re. Travellers: after what I consider the best four episode block in SGA history, it was perhaps predictable that Travellers was kind of an anti-climax - I also read somewhere else that after such a friendship-fest and McShep show in Doppelganger, the following week would be the John Sheppard red-blooded male hour, and whoever said that was so right. Oh, PTB, why you so predictable?
Anyway, I can't say I hated it, though I was slightly bored at times (good thing we already got our renewal, hee!), and maybe whatshername's tight leather corset will translate into higher ratings, who knows (at least the leather was brown: hot and functional, rather than dominatrix black).
All I can say is, a 20 ep season usually yields a few clunkers, and we were lucky that hasn't happened yet, this season.

RE the humanoid aliens: I actually didn't mind that: I think the Stargate series suffer when we have too many "forehead aliens" - either make them really alien (energy creature, glowy crystal fungus) or leave them human. I like that the Wraith are the only ones who are really different, because it ties in with the whole "Ancients seeded the galaxy" thing. Also, it makes clear that the Ancients blundered a great deal in those days: I love tracing that change in attitude from when they first arrived, till The Return, when they really realised how arrogant the Ancients truly were.

If I'm not saying much about this ep, it's cos I'm kinda 'meh' about it - although, once again, coming off the amazing high of the first 4, it was to be expected. Maybe as part of the entire season, this ep will work better.

Still loving SGA and season 4!

Integrabyte
October 27th, 2007, 05:40 AM
When I saw the last scene at the table I had a deja vu. Have to remember where I heard Rodney say what he said.

Turning now to the episode, who on Earth would mount a rescue mission of that magnitude with Puddle Jumpers? Where was the Apollo or the Daedalus? I don't even want to mention the Odyssey because it seems the Asgard tech we have will never reach Pegasus.

Guess nowadays the recipe for a good episode is as follows:

1. Add a good looking actress who beats the crap out of our hero.
2. Fire some drones with an Ancient warship.
3. Put 3 Wraith for target practice.
4. Use the common ground approach.

Cook for 42 minutes and ignore the small details.

s09119
October 27th, 2007, 05:43 AM
Why does everyone assume that Ronon got his weapon from the Travelers instead of the other way around? I was under the impression the Travelers are a scavenger race, not only do they scavenge ancient tech, but maybe they scavenge from culled and or abandoned planets. Don’t forget in Sateda Ronon found other guns just like his on his planet when he was being hunted by the wraith.

I don't remember Ronon finding those pistols on Sateda...

Anyway, my opinion is those weapons are the Travelers', and Ronon merely managed to pick one up in his Runner days (possibly stole it from them while they were on a planet for repairs).


But overall, I enjoyed this episode. Some parts of it felt a little under-thought, but the majority of it I thought was great. I really like the Travelers, and they could really turn out to be a powerful ally (our first group of advanced humans in Pegasus!) or a dangerous adversary (they could always realize that our ships would make a great addition to their fleet).

arjumand
October 27th, 2007, 05:46 AM
When I saw the last scene at the table I had a deja vu. Have to remember where I heard Rodney say what he said.

That scene was featured in one of the Season 4 trailers - there were a couple of scenes from the ep, notably the kiss, and then Rodney's line.

And there I thought only the Supernatural trailer-making crack monkeys were dumb enough to put the last line of an episode in the trailer.

For the rest of the season I won't be watching any promos: I'd like to be unspoiled for at least some of the eps!

ToasterOnFire
October 27th, 2007, 05:58 AM
Why do people keep saying M&M write these eps together? As far as I can see, Paul wrote this episode. Joe wrote Reunion himself. That's how I understand it anyway. Just like Joe M has stated, Paul was the one that wrote The Tower, not him. Why are they credited together as writers?
Um, maybe because it says "written by M&M" for the Tower summary on GW? And maybe because it says "written by M&M" in the credits for Tower? Same thing for Reunion and Travelers. If only one of the Ms wrote these eps why don't they honestly report it as such? Portfolio padding?

jds1982
October 27th, 2007, 06:14 AM
I don't remember Ronon finding those pistols on Sateda...

That's because he didn't, the previous poster must be confused.

silkie
October 27th, 2007, 06:17 AM
Travelers=stupid PU re-hash (only slightly better)
6/10

CYBEREAGLE19
October 27th, 2007, 06:37 AM
It had some elements from Prometheus Unbound- the whole capture thing, the stunning and escaping thing, sort of, but overall it was a unique episode. I waide to look a little like the other Ancient warships, though. Oh well. One question though. Why did the weapons have to be fired from the control chair? Why not the bridge?

I really enjoyed the episode, so far the best one of the season, glad to have finally learned where ronan got his gun, and yeah I don't get why they had a control chair for the drones when in "No Mans Land" Lorne was able to fire the orions drones from the bridge, I cant wait to see where this story line ends up, also for the person who mentioned about the Apollo and Daedalus not being there, thats a good thing for once I don't wanna see those ships always coming in to save the day,

Cautious Explorer
October 27th, 2007, 06:37 AM
What is happening to the Wraith? They used to be menacing, now they're barely more threatening than the Geni.

Sheppard and the Satedans were tortured with the Wraith feeding and the gift of life was painful -- not so for Larin. Is she that tough? Sheppard was in more pain from the stunner blast than Larin was from the feeding. Did this Wraith have particularly gentle hands? :S

JackHarkness_Hot
October 27th, 2007, 06:55 AM
This episode was quite interesting, the way Sheppard acted in the episode reminded me a lot of Jack O'Neill, I don't exactly know why but he does, LOL

IMO, I thought this episode sure beats "Reunion" and yeah it was interesting, the writing style and sense of it also reminded me of the SG-1 ep, "Abyss".

Larin character, she was cool, the constant hardship sure made her seem kinda cold but she equally can be loving from what I gathered.

I liked the ending as well, when the 4 are sitting eating lunch or dinner and Flannigan's Southern accent sure shone through when he said, "She had me beat Rodney, she threatened to kill me several times" - love the way he said "times", so cool!

All in all, a very good episode! :D

Briangate78
October 27th, 2007, 06:56 AM
This is one of those episodes where the character chemistry saves the episode. Without that it would of been a very bland episode.

justhere1971
October 27th, 2007, 07:04 AM
This is one of those episodes where the character chemistry saves the episode. Without that it would of been a very bland episode.

Character chemistry? That's stretching it a bit. Although the 2 guys were funny.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 27th, 2007, 07:08 AM
Oh. Wow. That's some meaty information. I think it'll take me the month or so until they show up again to process the philosophical ramifications of "they can't be trusted".

That is deep, man. How do the writers do it?!!?

Like I said that's all side-story stuff. The kinds of things you pick up a little here a little there. The show is about the Atlantis team exploring the galaxy - sometimes they find new tech sometimes they fight the Wraith sometimes they meet new races during the course of all that but it's not a "race of the week documentary." It's not gonna kill you if you don't learn every single thing about each new world they go to.

What about the primative race on the planet? You didn't learn anything about them except that they're "free spirited" does that mean the writers did a bad job?

Cap116
October 27th, 2007, 07:09 AM
I really enjoyed this episode, between the character chemistry and the more in depth look of an Aurora class ship. We found out that there is a chair to control the drones on the ship. At least that answers one question. Also the episode shows how well Sheppard understands Ancient tech. Didn't think he understood it that well. Overall, IMO, I think is was a decent episode, keeps it interesting.

Dutch_Razor
October 27th, 2007, 07:12 AM
No. This is called tactical advantage. He made the assumption that she wasn't going to flood the room with radiation and kill him if he had hostages.
Who really knows? Perhaps the bridge doesn't have weapons control and the ship was designed to complement a large group of people. Perhaps she assumed that Shepard knew how to aim really well.
Orbiting satellite.

Why? It's not like he had the rights to it. As bad as kidnapping is the ship was the Travelers.

The rights? They started of on the bad side, just because they're led by a woman doesn't mean they can get away with everything, Sheppard should've locked her up and waited for backup, that would've been the most logical thing to do.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 27th, 2007, 07:25 AM
So, if I recall, the ship itself could not protect against the radiation. It was only at 20% shield strength. Shep surrendered because he didn't want to die, correct? I still don't understand how Atlantis could not detect the active ship. One thing I noticed though was that the chair was not powered by a zpm. How odd. (Is there a transcript up yet?)
Also, it was pretty obvious this Ancient warship (and the underwater drilling platform) was a lot closer to Atlantis's internal design, whereas the other two we've seen (and the Project Arturus facility) were a much more unique design. Is it possible that this ship was an earlier "Aurora" class ship? After all, the Aurora was definitely not the first.

jds1982
October 27th, 2007, 07:30 AM
Yeah this ship did have those stupid pointless water conduit thingies.

Wraith_Boy
October 27th, 2007, 07:37 AM
Definitely the Pegasus version of 'Prometheus Unbound'!

Not as good as I was hoping, but not too bad either. It ended the way I was expecting. Travelers to get the ship at the end & the team ends up with nothing.

They have 2 304's. Apollo & Daedalus. It was stupid not to even mention them. As well as the fact that both can't be back at Earth at the exact same time. Surely 1 goes back, the other stays behind. So that Atlantis always has a 304 available to it. When they were going in the PJ's they could have mentioned that Apollo lr Daedalus was stuck at midway or wherever as the drive failed & they had to wait for the other 304 to bring replacements (too big to bring through the gate). So that's why the 304 couldn't be used. They could even have said Carter was out there having a look to see if she could rig something up tp allow them to at least get back to Atlantis.

Considering this involved a rescue mission for the head of security etc, then Carter should have been heavily involved in this ep. I know she was probably filming the SG-1 stuff at the time. However they could & should have brought her in later on to do a couple of brief scenes. At the very least the leader of the expedition should have made the decision to go approve sending out all those PJ's & people on a rescue mission.

Shep should be busted a new one for letting her near enough to grab the stunner from behind his back. Never mind letting a Wraith go after forcing him to give her back her life. That Wraith could have got into the Dart then sent a message to a nearby Cruiser or Hive. Shep had no idea when his people would be able to get to him. So letting the Wraith go could have been a huge mistake if he was able to contact his people & they had a ship close by that would get to them before Sheps team had a chance to mount the rescue (Shep obviously knew there was no 304 & they'd have to use PJ's travelling at sublight. Realistically when such a mission report was filed, he would be immediately replaced as head of security for his incompetence & failings.

Another 'Aurora', come on writers. Give us another warship class for a change. We see Aurora's all the time (especially ones floating in space unattended), yet never anything other than a brief look. Show us some new cool things about it like energy weapons or whatever.

Wasn't expecting them to keep the ship anyhow. It was obvious the Travelers would get away with it at the end of the ep.

To me personally I think Atlantis is far too contrived & convenient at the moment. Would probably be better to have the Travelers in a couple more eps this year to show us really what they are like! Would be cool to see if they can still make ships these days like Larrin said, if they can & only lack the resources. Then it may well be worth doing some sort of exchange. Atlantis gives them, stuff to build a ship, then watches all the tech to see if they have anything more advanced that could be of use.

The one thing I was really hoping for was Ronon's gun to be explained. We know it runs on a power cell. So when it gets depleted, it has to be replaced. Since Ronon has one, where exactly does he gets the spares from when he needs refills?

mlarke
October 27th, 2007, 07:40 AM
i stand by my statement that this franchises greatest weakness is its "guest stars". It is sad when the best guest performances are done by puppets (and dom deluise!)

hey, come on now, i just watched Urgo again, that episode cracked me up. So lay off the Dom alright.

MartianManhunter
October 27th, 2007, 07:59 AM
I like this episode alot.

The travelers were cooler than i thought and i dont know if anyone has said this or not but Im glad the travelers got their hands on the aurora class. Better for them to have it and put it to good use, than for it to just be destroyed a few episodes later.

Sheppard was great as well. It was nice to see someone besides Rodney or his team doing a little technical work.

Melora
October 27th, 2007, 08:05 AM
So who's responsible for the terrible twosome, ie Irresistible and Irresponsible? Please don't tell me that was Joe on his own! Urgh, another reason to hate that man - say it ain't so, Joe!
<snip>

From what I understand, Joe and Paul have been writing separate episodes since at least last season on SGA and SG1. They used to write scripts together for the show but the work load on the writing staff got to be too much (with 40 eps a season) and they had to split up and produce separate scripts to deal with it. I believe they would each write an ep and then critique and add to each other's work. So, "Irresponsible" was primarily the work of JM. He wrote it and I believe he has taken responsibility for its weaknesses. "The Tower" was primarily the work of PM. But they also both provided input on the scripts of the other. "Irresistible" was written by Carl Binder, not JM or PM.


Um, maybe because it says "written by M&M" for the Tower summary on GW? And maybe because it says "written by M&M" in the credits for Tower? Same thing for Reunion and Travelers. If only one of the Ms wrote these eps why don't they honestly report it as such? Portfolio padding?

See above. They used to write scripts together back in the old days of SG1 and were thus both credited. When they had to split up last season or so, they decided to continue being credited together b/c they are writing partners and have been since even before they worked on SG. IIRC, they went to a writing class together and have been writing with each other ever since.

Think of it like Lennon and McCartney. In the end, they wrote separate songs but were always both given writing credit b/c they saw themselves as writing partners. It's unusual, but not unheard of.

stclare
October 27th, 2007, 08:12 AM
hey, come on now, i just watched Urgo again, that episode cracked me up. So lay off the Dom alright.

Dom is cool! long live Captain Caos! man that movie was fun when i was 12 :)

i didnt hate this ep as much as i thought i would. the Shep/larin thing wasnt too much, although that maybe because i saw no chemistry there between them at all.

i also like that they have been adding more group downtime scenes in the eps. this realy shows the team together i like that and wished they'd done this in season 3.

i also have to agree with some previous comments about the trailers, they gave away too much and put me off this ep. i will be avoiding them in future.

2 shep fest's in a row, whos turn is it next?

6/10 for me

kymeric
October 27th, 2007, 08:14 AM
I was under the iimpression that JM said we would see the Tria in season 4. Overall I thought this episode was quite entertaining. You can't have every episode following the same format so I thought it was a nice break from the usual McKay fixing it and Ronon going Dolph Lundgren, not that I mind that, on the contrary I enjoy it, but sometimes it's nice to have a break. Not the best so far this season but still awesome.

I do have one question. Why has Ronon's gun never run out of power?

Saw him reload it in runner.

Dax
October 27th, 2007, 08:23 AM
It was passable. Typical John 'emo-teenager' Sheppard episode. Get caught and the next hour watching the guy does some amazingly stupid but funny stuff -- like fixing and getting ships running.

Nevertheless, it was a nice break from whiny, b!tchy self destructive emo Sheppard + McKay fest of the past 2 seasons.

6/10 as well

kymeric
October 27th, 2007, 08:51 AM
What is happening to the Wraith? They used to be menacing, now they're barely more threatening than the Geni.

Sheppard and the Satedans were tortured with the Wraith feeding and the gift of life was painful -- not so for Larin. Is she that tough? Sheppard was in more pain from the stunner blast than Larin was from the feeding. Did this Wraith have particularly gentle hands? :S

Getting to know an enemy takes the fear of them away. Theyve had 3 years of experience to build a good group of tatics against the wraith. Theyve also had a good 7 years of building successful tatics against a more powerful enemy in the mw galaxy. If they didnt learn anything from experience they would be quite literally retarted.

Besides the wraith are 2nd potatoe to the asurans on the show now. They cant be hurt and if by some miracle you do kill them they just pop back up on their homeworld. Thats a scary villian.

Michelle05
October 27th, 2007, 08:57 AM
Overall I really enjoyed it. I for one loved seeing Rodney be the one on the radio to John when he was captured, and loved him leading the rescue even if it was mainly because AT was off filming the movies. A nice follow-on from last week's mutual life-saving activities.

I could see Paul Mullie's writing... interesting plot, great character moments, but also quite a bit of exposition to explain away logic holes. One that I think was missed... John activated the ship's intercomm to talk to Larrin. But once the Wraith were on board, wouldn't they need some other way to talk such that the Wraith couldn't overhear them?

As for comparisons to PU, yep, in terms of Sheppard and Larrin it was quite similar. But to me the chemistry between Daniel and Vala was WAY more believable, energetic, fun, and organic. I felt Jill Wagner was struggling a bit with some of the dialog. But, she struck just the right balance of femininity and toughness, IMO. I bought that Shep would be attracted and actually enjoyed the kiss very much, even though I'm anti-ship on the show!

So overall really enjoyable IMO, and I like the Travelers as a race very much. Way more than the Lucian Alliance, that's for sure.

Madmik
October 27th, 2007, 09:01 AM
This episode most definitely did not live up to it's hype. While watching Sheppard jaunting around an abandoned ship with a lovely woman and being beat up on occasion was all well and good, it certainly can't carry the episode.

The ruthless woman leader with the cliche vulnerable side was very sexy, yet wholly uninteresting. (I'm a man, if anyone's wondering). The equally cliched kiss between the hero and the aformentioned sexy alien leader did surprise me in that it was a ploy on her part and he got stunned, which was not the starry-eyed conclusion to that scene I expected. Thank goodness for small miracles.

The thing that frustates me most is how run-of-the-mill this episode is. Did it make me laugh? No. Was I on the edge of my seat at any point? No. Did something unexpected happen, something I didn't guess was going to happen before it happened? Nope. Did I learn anything new about the show's hero? No. I already knew he was very smart, even gifted, and has a soft spot for pretty Pegasus Galaxy residents. Was it utterly predictible? Gods, yes.

I was also puzzled by the absence of Colonel Carter. Not even the token mission approval scene that we would've been gotten with Dr. Weir. Very strange, and as aggravating as the unexplained absence of Ronon and Teyla in Grace Under Pressure.

Even though we ended with the possibility of having found another ally in Pegasus in the Travellers, this episode offered me nothing new, nothing exciting. And once again, I feel gypped out of having an episode in which Sheppard is unable to charm his way out of a dangerous situation and must be completely dependent upon his comrades for rescue. I've been feeling very shortchanged on this issue for quite some time.

For me, this is the weakest episode so far in season 4, and I would only give it a 5 out of 10. Next week's episode looks far more interesting.
Agree with every word - this episode was booooooooooooooring...
I actually quite disappointed with this season - after very good episodes at the end of third... Well, Adrift" and "Lifeline" had effects at least, but nothing new...

AscendedTauri
October 27th, 2007, 09:20 AM
Hey all, this is my entrance into the Gateworld forums. I'm a regular poster in the SciFi forums, but wanted to start weighing in on here! I actually really liked this episode. Without going into too many particulars, I agree with many of the criticisms, but I still loved the ep.

Loving Season 4 and am so excited for a 5th Season!

Charles Schneider
October 27th, 2007, 09:23 AM
Great episode. I loved the female-shep counterpart balancing act. I think we'll definitely see her again in the back half of the season.

bluealien
October 27th, 2007, 09:39 AM
Excellent episode... I really didnt think I would enjoy this ep as much as I did from the spoilers... Sheppard was fantastic and I really liked Larrin... I thought they had great chemistry and I liked their interaction. Neither one really trusted the other but both used their charm and wit and some other means to keep the upper hand. ...it wasnt too cheesy or over the top.

Larrin was a good adversary and I was entertained for the entire 45 minutes. I loved how the team and Lorne were willing to do anything to get Sheppard back and would have loved an all out fire fight at the end to get him back... but I guess that would have ruined Sheps plans to persuade Larrin to be a future ally... It's nice to see Shep making new friends out there... the Pegasus Galaxy can be an unfriendly place so its good to try and get on the right side of some of their inhabitants. Who knows what will happen when they meet again..

Alipeeps
October 27th, 2007, 10:03 AM
Sheppard and the Satedans were tortured with the Wraith feeding and the gift of life was painful -- not so for Larin. Is she that tough? Sheppard was in more pain from the stunner blast than Larin was from the feeding. Did this Wraith have particularly gentle hands? :S

Well we never actually saw Sheppard being given his life back by the Wraith.. we heard him cry out... but then he jumped up fairly quickly afterwards and didn't seem to be in any pain...?

Anubis-
October 27th, 2007, 10:06 AM
I be disappointed to wraith on this episode. They were like doll, they was not so aggressive, like I suppose wraith to be.

Melora
October 27th, 2007, 10:07 AM
I thought the episode was okay - not bad but not as entertaining as I hoped it would be. I thought it was a good ep for Sheppard and I thought JF did a wonderful job once again this week. There were a couple of terrific moments for Shep - I especially liked the final scene between him and Larrin. I also liked that this ep obviously is setting up future story lines that will involve the Travelers. We really only learned about Larrin in this ep. It would have been nice to learn more about her people as well. I hope TPTB explore them a little more in depth in the future.

I was hoping to really like Larrin, since I tend to like strong female characters. I do see a lot of potential in the character and I think she could be a very interesting adversary/ally, but I was a little disappointed. I thought Jill Wagner looked right for the part and got the physicality of the character right, but there was something missing in her delivery of the lines at times. As a result, the character just sort of fell flat for me. I think someone earlier said that she improved as the episode progressed. I agree, but it was not enough for me to really get into the character. Perhaps I will warm up to the character more in the next ep she's in.

The only other criticisms I have is that I would have liked to see the other characters a bit more (esp. Lorne) and that it was odd that there was no mention of where Carter was and why Rodney seemed to be in charge of the base. That was just a little odd to me.

I also felt that this ep was a retelling of Prometheus Unbound, which I don't mind since all Sci-Fi stories are basically recycled time and again. As long as the retelling brings a fresh perspective and interesting character interactions, I have no problem with recycling stories. In some ways I thought the ep was better than PU, and in some ways worse. I liked that this ep will tie into SGA stories later down the road and it seemed to have a lot more substance story-wise than PU (which was really just a fun romp). But I think the interactions between the characters was lacking the necessary spark in this ep. In contrast, the character interaction was the saving grace of PU.

So, I had mixed feelings about this one.

The Shadow
October 27th, 2007, 10:20 AM
While this ep was overall nicely done, the dialouge was very repetitive that I wish they just left this to be a Sheppard alone ep and not even bring out McKay, Teyla, Ronon, and Lorne if they're gonna waste them just saying "I don't know", "What do I do?", "Does it matter?" all throughout the episode. This was a waste of the other characters, and their dialouge annoyed me by the time half the show was over, there was no fresh lines except the parts of Sheppard and Larin.

Other than that, the ep was pretty well done. I liked it.

But personally Prometheus Unbound was much better, I don't remember wanting to pull my hair out hearing repetitive dialouges.

Prancey
October 27th, 2007, 10:38 AM
Hi, I'm sorta new, even though I've been stalking for a while. =)

I just think the episode was pure greatness, and it was nice to finally see the hero in a real position of power (i.e the control room) instead of the "underdog that barely wins/escapes" thing that can get kinda repetetive.

Overall I'm very pleased with this episode, even though I did foresee some of the things that happened.

Chailyn
October 27th, 2007, 10:46 AM
Excellent episode... I really didnt think I would enjoy this ep as much as I did from the spoilers... Sheppard was fantastic and I really liked Larrin... I thought they had great chemistry and I liked their interaction. Neither one really trusted the other but both used their charm and wit and some other means to keep the upper hand. ...it wasnt too cheesy or over the top.

I was surprised how much I liked Larrin too. I thought that she would be the typical Stargate guest star ditz, but she proved to be one smart chick. Not only is she tough enough to get what she wants, but she also clearly has technical knowledge of Ancient technology. I also liked the way the Travelers are trying to get around the Ancient gene; it shows creativity. Futher, it was nice seeing someone besides McKay or Zelenka get to do the technobabble this week. Although, I have to admit that the actress seemed a bit off, imo. I wish they had cast a stronger actress for the part. Everytime she shrieked, "Sheppard!" I did have to cringe a bit.

I agree that the episode was a bit bland and not nearly as exciting as it could have been. All the double-crossing became repetitive. I did like when Larrin was wraithed though. She showed guts agreeing to play bait. Although the Wraith just meekly agreeing to jump into his dart and go home was rather lame. I would hope that Sheppard and Larrin would, at least, make sure he actually left before getting all fimilar with each other. I think Sheppard could have saved the romantic moment for a better time, but, for better or for worse, he always seems to jump in head first, so it fits with his character, I guess.

And we got to see Lorne! :) A complete highlight for me! Wish he had more lines, but at least he was involved in the rescue mission, which made sense. Hope we see more of him this season.

I'm also so, so thankful that we have another group of humans out there with some technology. Interacting with the village of the week was getting really stale. Here's hoping for less helpless villagers this season.

This was my least favorite episode of Season 4, but I still found it entertaining. I've been trying to suspend my disbelief on certain things, and it's helped me enjoy the show more. Overall, not bad. 6/10

Short Angel
October 27th, 2007, 10:47 AM
I'm of mixed feelings on this one. The wraith didn't seem to be as agressive I agree, there was somewhat nice banter going on b/w Larrin and Shepard. I guess my final verdict was that the episode was all right, not the worst and definitely not the best in my opinion. Hopefully season 5 will give us a bunch of great stories.

poundpuppy29
October 27th, 2007, 10:48 AM
Ok I was prepared to hate this ep. I read all the opinions all last night and this morning pro and con. I liked it I also like PU alot but this was a different ep different tone much different feel IMHO. I did not have an issue with the acting of Larrin the character was fine for me I didn't think it was bad acting the character is guarded but the performance wasn't wooden to me I did see chemistry between them and that pains me to say as a Sparky shipper. Do I love her like I love Vala no but I did like Larrin. I usually have a problem with Shep kirking but I didn't here I hated Sanctuary and the Tower for this reason but I didn't hate it here. It doesn't look good for Sparky I don't think Sheyla is going to happen either but this is JMHO I could be wrong.

Cautious Explorer
October 27th, 2007, 11:27 AM
Getting to know an enemy takes the fear of them away. Theyve had 3 years of experience to build a good group of tatics against the wraith. Theyve also had a good 7 years of building successful tatics against a more powerful enemy in the mw galaxy. If they didnt learn anything from experience they would be quite literally retarted.

Besides the wraith are 2nd potatoe to the asurans on the show now. They cant be hurt and if by some miracle you do kill them they just pop back up on their homeworld. Thats a scary villian.

Compare the Wraith in this episode to Steve in season 1. I guess you could say there are going to be differences in the Wraith just as there are differences in humans, but it just seems like the individual Wraith are being written differently--more bumbling and ineffective.

And I'd still like to know where Larin gained the ability to withstand having the life sucked out of her and put back with so little reaction. Compare that scene to Sheppard in Common Ground. She didn't even scream. She's that much stronger and stoic than Sheppard or the Satedans?

JoshuaJSlone
October 27th, 2007, 11:36 AM
No Sam this episode. I know she's not in every episode this season, but it seemed a bit conspicuous that the expedition's #2 leader went missing and the highest-up people we ever saw working on the problem were McKay and Lorne. I know SG-1 members tended to temporarily disappear a lot, did any of those go by entirely without a presence from General Hammond/O'Neill/Landry?

Chailyn
October 27th, 2007, 11:39 AM
And I'd still like to know where Larin gained the ability to withstand having the life sucked out of her and put back with so little reaction. Compare that scene to Sheppard in Common Ground. She didn't even scream. She's that much stronger and stoic than Sheppard or the Satedans?

Imo, the actress just doesn't have much emotional range. I don't think Larrin was supposed to be depicted as physically/emotionally stronger than Shep and the Satedans, but I just think the actress wasn't very effective at giving a reaction. She looked more like she woke up from a nap--sort of dazed--definately not as tramatized as Shep and the others. I just chalk it up to the acting. :S

prion
October 27th, 2007, 11:55 AM
Imo, the actress just doesn't have much emotional range. I don't think Larrin was supposed to be depicted as physically/emotionally stronger than Shep and the Satedans, but I just think the actress wasn't very effective at giving a reaction. She looked more like she woke up from a nap--sort of dazed--definately not as tramatized as Shep and the others. I just chalk it up to the acting. :S

Agreed. Some of the dialogue - such as explaining about abandoning her people on a planet, could have been more powerful if given a better delivery. And her regeneration scene left me scratching my head as "common ground" seemed to indicate the process was pretty painful.

bandras
October 27th, 2007, 11:55 AM
was a good episode, although as mentioned before a lil P Unbound-y but a much better version for that matter.
What I didn't like was that Sheppard kissed (again) with the "sexy alien" he does that a lot of times, and I'm jealous :sheppard:

One more thing. Travelers?! Then let's call the wraith Suckers, and the genii could be Mole people or something. They could've find out some name for a race. Even the ancients have their name; lantians, I hope they'll fix it some day, and give them a name.

The mistery of Ronon's gun has been solved so I'll give it 5/5.

poundpuppy29
October 27th, 2007, 12:19 PM
I just want add I think some of my enjoyment of ep was because Sam wasn't in it. I really don't think she belongs in SGA reg basis. The parts with her in it earlier eps felt off to me. I do like Sam in SG-1 just not here.

Orion's Star
October 27th, 2007, 12:52 PM
I really like Jill Wagner. She was actually really good in Blade (not to mention she is quite attractive), but I have to agree that there was something off with her performance in the episode. I kept getting the feeling like she didn't want to be there, or that she was constantly rolling her eyes while off camera. I did think she had decent rapport with JF, so I'm curious if they'll bring her back.

I thought it was great that they found another Ancient warship, but one has to start wondering how many of these ships are littering the spaceways around the galaxy like trash the Ancients threw out their car while cruising down the interstate. But the episode really was predictable. First, how convenient that Larrin only brings two lackeys with her to take control of an Ancient warship that she thought could house 1,000 people, and even more convenient that they happen to die right before the Wraith ship is destroyed. Did she really think she'd need only one security idiot to guard Sheppard (the other dude was apparently only there to be a science nerd)?

The whole Spy vs. Spy thing was kind of entertaining at first, but also played out rather predictably. I knew as soon as Sheppard put the stunner in the back of his pants what would happen, and sure enough, he let himself get sucked in yet again by a beautiful woman. I swear Sheppard loses the ability to think clearly whenever he's around a Hot Alien Chick. Why would he even get that close to somebody who'd done everything she could previously to have an advantage over him?

The one thing that really stuck with me from the episode though is the whole Ronon gun bit. I just didn't get that at all. What was the point? I thought it was kind of stupid honestly. I mean, how many times has Ronon's gun ever run out of juice the entire time he's been on the show? I can't remember a single time (doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I just don't remember) that it's done so. Yet in this episode, the gun Sheppard has just happens to run out of power, ammo, whatever, right at the precise moment he needs it most. Okay. Plus, the background they tried to establish for it didn't actually reveal all that much. So the gun is a Travelers weapon, so what? What does that tell me? Not much. Kind of like Sateda where you think you're going to get this great story about Ronon's background, but instead you just get a lot of slow motion and grunting.

drake122
October 27th, 2007, 01:02 PM
Personally, I think SGA is becoming shallow and boring this season. What on earth happened to the show? There used to be good episodes in S3 and before, but now, it's all about reused scripts, poor writing/acting and zero character development. The only decent episodes so far were Doppelganger and maybe Reunion in my opinion.

Also, this latest ep only had two good things in it: the "Reed Richards" line and Jill Wagner being so hot...

The 4th season is a huge disappointment to me, and I hope the future episodes will be a lot better than these.

Niteshadow
October 27th, 2007, 01:07 PM
I wasn't even thinking about prometheus unbound at the time........i still liked it

arjumand
October 27th, 2007, 01:09 PM
So, "Irresponsible" was primarily the work of JM. He wrote it and I believe he has taken responsibility for its weaknesses. "The Tower" was primarily the work of PM. But they also both provided input on the scripts of the other. "Irresistible" was written by Carl Binder, not JM or PM.

You're right about Irresistible, my bad; when I was thinking about the episodes, it must have seemed inconceivable to me that having created such a repulsive character like Lucius Lavin, that a different writer would want to go and revisit said scumbag in another episode. Now that I know how they film and broadcast, I suppose the whole season had been filmed by the time they realised how very badly Lavin was perceived?

However, I don't agree that Mallozzi has really taken responsibility for the weaknesses in his own episode: I read the post in which he listed what he thought went wrong with various eps, and all he mentioned about Irresponsible was that the setting was all wrong, and that they wanted a Wild West village, but that fell through, and so they ended up settling for Ye Olde Mittel-Europa Village Set . . . Dude, that's not what was wrong with your episode! Besides wasting the best human villain SGA has ever had (and wasting Robert Davi), the problem with Irresponsible was that they glorified a character who was essentially an unrepentant rapist: by making him funny, they implied that rape was funny. Oh my aching sides, how I laughed.

So, Carl Binder actually came up with Lucius Lavin, did he? You're on my list, buddy. OTOH, he also wrote Progeny, which I loved. I'm so confused!

The thing is about Travellers, it just contains the usual cliches about the kick-ass female, and why does she always distract the guy by kissing him? And why does he always get distracted, instead of just clocking her one? Look, I'm a woman, ok, and if in a film/tv show a woman spends some time punching a guy in the face, he is fully within his rights to punch her back. I have more respect for tv shows which actually go there, (Buffy, Supernatural) rather than not hit back out of some misguided sense of not hitting a girl. Ok, both the women on those shows were super-powered, but at least the guys hit back.

Just once, I'd like to see a female villain distract a guy by giving him a good kick in the balls, rather than shoving her boobs in his face and her tongue in his mouth. I mean, you don't see Milla Jovovich getting into a clinch with the zombies, and Ripley has never tried to make out with any of our favourite aliens (no, Alien Resurrection doesn't count. It doesn't even exist. I have blanked it from my mind). The whole 'sexual wiles' thing is just another form of sexism - women can't really fight, so they must use their bodies in the only way they can. The writers never tried that crap with Teyla, so what happens? She becomes 'invisible'. Very funny, writers. Not.

And one more thing! I love Season 4 to bits, so far. I shall hug it and squeeze and keep it and call it George. But. Can someone please "lose" the incidental music, somehow? Maybe a master tape could . . . accidentally . . . get erased? It would save on the budget (makes hopeful puppy face)! It has been getting ever more annoying since the season premiere, and in Doppelganger and Travellers it just reached its annoying climax, for me. Especially when, I think, John was about to be captured by the security team towards the end? There was this "funny things are happening now" in the soundtrack? Sort of SGA's version of the "wah wah wah waaah"? Please music guy, stop doing that. It's not cute.

Not_Fazed
October 27th, 2007, 01:12 PM
I enjoyed this episode. I think the travelers are pretty interesting and a welcome change.

Strange how the Wraith were willing to risk blowing up a Lantian warship - even firing upon the ship when the shields were down - they could at least gleam more efficient hyperdrives by studying the ships engines.

The drones were, as always, fantastic.

KiLL3r
October 27th, 2007, 01:18 PM
what i found strange was the travellers gun ran outta ammo. What doesn't ronons gun do this? and if it does where does he get refills?

Linzi
October 27th, 2007, 01:42 PM
I'm not going to go into loads of detail today - my brain's fried! :lol:. I've read everyone's posts here and have found them interesting; some I agree with, some I don't.

Firstly, in my opinion, NO WAY was this like PU. It bore no similarity at all. Enough of the SG1 comparisons already! ;)

Wow! I really, really enjoyed Travelers. I thought Sheppard was great. Resourceful, smart, technically proficient, (who would have thought he could have fixed the Ancient chair without McKay there?), and he was just totally adorable.

I liked Larrin. She's determined, sexy and ruthless. Good, a strong woman for a guest character for a change. I like that.


The story was a tad thinly spread, but with only 43 minutes, it's so hard to fit everything in, and I understand that. The vis effects were great, the stunts good, and ouch for poor Sheppard being beaten so much...yeah, I'm so upset about that...:o

I thought Sheppard and Larrin had great chemistry, and didn't think Shep behaved inappropriately towards Larrin at all. I also felt Larrin was using whatever she could to get the better of Sheppard, and I liked that too.

I would have liked a little more of the rest of the team though. It's not that I don't appreciate seeing more of Sheppard, God knows, he deserves a dedicated episode, and he's my favourite character and all, but I thought more team bits, a la Sateda, would have been a little more satisfying for me. There's just something about their joint interaction that I adore, and I felt the episode only had a few emotional moments. Now, I don't expect every episode to be the same. DG was very emotionally hard hitting for me, so maybe I'm being unfair here. Maybe that's just me? I just prefer team episodes which centre on characters. But, as I said, I loved Sheppard here and wasn't disappointed with the episode at all. It was really entertaining and kick ass!

I'm not going to go on about the bits I loved, I loved so much! But, the closing scene had me chuckling and Teyla's eye roll and Sheppard's rather wistful look were great! I loved the interaction between Sheppard and Larrin generally and enjoyed the cat and mouse games they played, and their one's with the wraith too.

The only real criticisms I have is that I felt it was odd not to see Larrin age or de-age. I understand about budget constraints though. I was surprised Sheppard let the wraith go though. I thought he'd shoot him, but then again, Sheppard does keep his word. So, I don't know how I feel about that really. :lol:

Overall I gave this 9/10. I was thoroughly entertained, and again am in awe of Joe F. He did a fantastic job here, IMO. Another strong episode for me. I await Tabula Rasa with great expectations. 5 strong episodes so far.

Edit: I missed Carter here. Just a few words from her about finding Sheppard and sending the team out to find him. I know that AT was only contracted for 14 episodes, so some she couldn't be around for, but I did miss her here. :)

Orovingwen
October 27th, 2007, 01:46 PM
And Voyagernizing continues.
I think the writers' goal is to destroy every good thing they build up over the last years.

this episode is totally boring and for my personally the worst episode in SGA so far. C'mon we knew how it's gonna end, that cat-mouse game was already an old hat in The Long Goodbye and was only interesting to see our characters act differently and discover the story.
But Travelers? the only nice thing about it is the backround we have mentioned in what ike 2 sentences? (-> Travelers. especially how they hide from wraith detectors/sensors).

That silly cliché chic make me wanne stop watching every time she came on screen (nothing against the actor but that role as no eligibility whatsoever to be on a high class sci-fi show like SGA - I must say - *claims* to be). This episode is worse then bad fanfiction is simply okay for drooling over eyecandy (if you can find yourself some).
Sorry to be that harsh but I my concern that is show is going down in quality gets worse with every episode. I don't wanne *loose* it.

okay back to leadership.
Rodney and Lorne were cool. I liked that short B-plot sequences. Normally they are a bit too long and you wonder when you can back to the A-plot but here it was short, nice and gave me time to take a deep breath before the horror went on.

Another bummer is that this stupid chick is on another episode (I pray for her being killed! the writers already have developed a habit of killing of people why can't it be her next time?) and take that thing she calls "humor" with her.
Who wrote that episode anyway? Must have been an intern because I even could have written a better one.
I mean we have see those "plots" already too often and even then it wasn't fun. and that closet scene? HELLO? how teen can we go? *headdesk*
And why should the 'lantiens have a secret closet there anyway? IF I want to have one I's make it either bigger or it'll be a drawer. First I thought I'll be a transporter (which would have been cool AND useful). And then the and on each others mouth? hello she bites Shep and is pissed then that he makes a noise. And she was keep talking before that so Shep had to shut her up and then she is pissed??? pff.


But hey why bother about this season we already get a next one TPTB can destroy. I bet they have a competition of a) how much crap can we air until we get cancelled and b) how fast can we destroy what is called SGA.
Or maybe they just rest on their's laurels because hey it's only what brought ST down.

JSPuddlejumper
October 27th, 2007, 01:48 PM
Not sure what some people are complaining about, but people being people, some will always complain and ***** about something or other.

Excellent episode, probably the best so far, I rate it 9.5/10.



Now for my *****ing =)

They made some advanced "allies". Hopefully the writers wont kill them off too soon, like the Agard, Tollans and pretty much the To'kra.

I would not be too surprised if they were killed off, the director's attitude is pretty much: Earth needs to be at this level of tech generally, if they are going to reach beyond, kill off advanced race. Or if said advance race may help the humans too much, must kill them off. The focus must always be the battle of the Earth forces against a much superior enemy. Lame IMO.

SGFerrit
October 27th, 2007, 02:22 PM
So who's responsible for the terrible twosome, ie Irresistible and Irresponsible? Please don't tell me that was Joe on his own! Urgh, another reason to hate that man - say it ain't so, Joe!

Actually, Carl Binder sarted the whole 'Irr' thing when he wrote Irresistable. And Joe M has admitted that Irresponsible was a huge mistake. Atleast he can admit there, where most writers would just try and cover their tracks.

Why do people always think Joe is responsible for bringing Lucius into the world? Carl Binder made him.


Um, maybe because it says "written by M&M" for the Tower summary on GW? And maybe because it says "written by M&M" in the credits for Tower? Same thing for Reunion and Travelers. If only one of the Ms wrote these eps why don't they honestly report it as such? Portfolio padding?

What the heck you asking me for?

Notice Joe Mallozzi is dedicating special blog enteries to the episodes he has written this year. Why isn't he doing it about this one? He has said before they aren't actually a team, anymore atleast. I don't understand it myself. And notice when people have brought up criticism of The Tower, Joe has said he thought Paul did a good job. Why does he refer to himself when he talks about Irresponsible, but Paul when he talks about The Tower. Go and ask on his blog about it. Unless you're one of those anti's who's scared to go on Joe's blog.;)

Seriously, the evidence is all there, if you're willing to search for it. Keep in mind I'm not 100% on this, but I am pretty sure. I have seen it said by Joe before, I wish I could remember where.

Alipeeps
October 27th, 2007, 02:52 PM
The one thing that really stuck with me from the episode though is the whole Ronon gun bit. I just didn't get that at all. What was the point? I thought it was kind of stupid honestly. I mean, how many times has Ronon's gun ever run out of juice the entire time he's been on the show? I can't remember a single time (doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I just don't remember) that it's done so. Yet in this episode, the gun Sheppard has just happens to run out of power, ammo, whatever, right at the precise moment he needs it most. Okay. Plus, the background they tried to establish for it didn't actually reveal all that much. So the gun is a Travelers weapon, so what? What does that tell me? Not much. Kind of like Sateda where you think you're going to get this great story about Ronon's background, but instead you just get a lot of slow motion and grunting.

Well, to be fair, Ronon has never fired the gun repeatedly and continuously, enough to melt through a metal wall. :D I know Ronon seems to fire the thing about without any concern for how long the charge will last but I don't think we've ever seen him fire it as much as it was fired in this episode (twice on the bridge by Sheppard), multiple times by Larrin to escape the chair room, 3-4 times? to shoot the Wraith and another 3 times to finish it off.

I'm guessing the power cells, or whatever they are, can be recharged as otherwise I don't know where Ronon would get a constant supply from?

Meg-Ann
October 27th, 2007, 03:02 PM
I thought it was a lame episode...The dialogue was pretty bad and the whole ep was very predictable. I kept wanting to smack Sheppard and Larrin throughout the whole thing. The Reed Richards line was great, but other than that this is the worst episode of the season so far, in my book. I'd go into more detail as to why, but my thoughts have already been stated by others, so I'll try not to kick a dead horse.


When they said the show will go dark this season, I didn't realize they meant they forgot to pay the light bill and it would be literally dark.


Ho man, I've been saying that since the season started. Sheesh.

NATIK
October 27th, 2007, 03:06 PM
I really liked this ep, I see the similarities with Prometheus Unbound but there are so many differences that I think its stupid to call it a copy of it.

It was interesting to see new tech and old tech explained. For the first time we saw an Aurora class ship survive its immidiate story arch, which was nice (I love those ships).

Sheppard showed how smart he actually is (controlling the ship and making precise plans), but then go and screw it all over by getting his gun taken by the hottie (moronic). I would have prefered if the travellers got the ship by boarding it with Sheppard still in control, instead of Sheppard being the smart guy all the way through except at one of the most crucial points. During that entire scene I was thinking "God I hope Sheppard gets wraited in the back for this stupidity".

AutumnDream
October 27th, 2007, 03:19 PM
1. However, I don't agree that Mallozzi has really taken responsibility for the weaknesses in his own episode: I read the post in which he listed what he thought went wrong with various eps, and all he mentioned about Irresponsible was that the setting was all wrong, and that they wanted a Wild West village, but that fell through, and so they ended up settling for Ye Olde Mittel-Europa Village Set . . . Dude, that's not what was wrong with your episode! Besides wasting the best human villain SGA has ever had (and wasting Robert Davi), the problem with Irresponsible was that they glorified a character who was essentially an unrepentant rapist: by making him funny, they implied that rape was funny. Oh my aching sides, how I laughed.

2. Just once, I'd like to see a female villain distract a guy by giving him a good kick in the balls, rather than shoving her boobs in his face and her tongue in his mouth. I mean, you don't see Milla Jovovich getting into a clinch with the zombies, and Ripley has never tried to make out with any of our favourite aliens (no, Alien Resurrection doesn't count. It doesn't even exist. I have blanked it from my mind). The whole 'sexual wiles' thing is just another form of sexism - women can't really fight, so they must use their bodies in the only way they can. The writers never tried that crap with Teyla, so what happens? She becomes 'invisible'. Very funny, writers. Not.

3. And one more thing! I love Season 4 to bits, so far. I shall hug it and squeeze and keep it and call it George. But. Can someone please "lose" the incidental music, somehow? Maybe a master tape could . . . accidentally . . . get erased? It would save on the budget (makes hopeful puppy face)! It has been getting ever more annoying since the season premiere, and in Doppelganger and Travellers it just reached its annoying climax, for me. Especially when, I think, John was about to be captured by the security team towards the end? There was this "funny things are happening now" in the soundtrack? Sort of SGA's version of the "wah wah wah waaah"? Please music guy, stop doing that. It's not cute.

1. Yeah, he basically blamed everyone and everything but himself and his own own script.

2. Like I said, teenage boys are writing the episodes.

3. I wrote this after Adrift aired:
Yeah, Atlantis is supposed to be a dark(ish?) show. The tone of the show was dark. We don't need that goofy crap in the season premiere. Scoring it with the pizzicato strings "funny theme" does not make it humorous. Sorry, sound editor guy, that is just not cool. Either the scene is funny or it isn't. Man, I remember in classic SG1, O'Neill would say or do something hilarious, and the scene would speak for itself. It didn't need musical support to let the audience know HEY WERE MAKIGN JOESK NOW OK, it was just genuinely amusing. I think the next Carter + Lee scene should have a laugh track.

Marianne_24
October 27th, 2007, 03:28 PM
I really liked this ep, I see the similarities with Prometheus Unbound but there are so many differences that I think its stupid to call it a copy of it.

Huh, Prometheus Unbound? Well, I think it's pretty much like Star Trek Voyager's The Desease, not a stellar episode either but at least you saw a bit more of the people. All we saw from these Travellers was that Larrin tricked Sheppard over and over again. Does she really have these superior motives? Who knows, she could be lying after all. And I think her little conversation with this other dude when they found the ship again was a bit sketchy...
So yes, I think that story was a waste of my time, was seldom so bored by an episode like this one.
And the Wraith? Such wussies! Where are the real Wraith who kicked some major butt?
I liked Teyla in this ep just for her eyeroll at the end cause it sums it up pretty good...maybe only topped by McKay's comment that he "...just once [..]would like to be taken prisoner by the sexy alien..."

Ruffles
October 27th, 2007, 03:32 PM
How do you come to this conclusion. So a man and woman in the same room now means kirking. Shep acted the way he always does. He snarks and charms his way out of a situation.. with women and men, that is who is he. That does not consitute Kirking to me at all. So all his escape attempts and locking up Larrrin and sending a signal to his people is somehow called kirking.!! So he trusted her.. well after saving her life twice I could see how he thougt he could trust her... she came onto him so again I can't really say how that was kirking on his part. He let his guard down because he trusted her..nothing to do with kirking.

Her people would have arrived in minutes anyway so he didnt really ever stand a chance of keeping the Atlantean ship anyway...

ITA.


You know, I missed Rodney as well... UNTIL Shep started being all mostly technical! He was fixing stuff! I considered him out of character (for a moment) and then I decided...'Duh, it has been 3.25 years. He has to learned more than a little something, something.'

I agree here too. If Rodney can learn to shoot a P-90, Shep can learn how to replace crystals.


was a good episode, although as mentioned before a lil P Unbound-y but a much better version for that matter.
What I didn't like was that Sheppard kissed (again) with the "sexy alien" he does that a lot of times, and I'm jealous :sheppard:

One more thing. Travelers?! Then let's call the wraith Suckers, and the genii could be Mole people or something. They could've find out some name for a race. Even the ancients have their name; lantians, I hope they'll fix it some day, and give them a name.

The mistery of Ronon's gun has been solved so I'll give it 5/5.

I find your bolded statement interesting. Lots of times. So far, I've counted 4 in 4 years: Chaya in Sanctuary, Teer in Epiphany (after he had known her for 6 months - and she made the first move), Mara in The Tower (who also made the first move), and Larrin (who again made the first move). Four women in 4 years. That counts as lots?

I will agree with you on the jealous bit though. ;)


I thought Sheppard and Larrin had great chemistry, and didn't think Shep behaved inappropriately towards Larrin at all. I also felt Larrin was using whatever she could to get the better of Sheppard, and I liked that too.

I agree with this as well. It may not be Emmy winning stuff by JW, but I thought Larrin and Sheppard had nice tension. I look forward to seeing her again.

Pegasus_SGA
October 27th, 2007, 03:39 PM
Short and sweet from me for a change.

Pros

Shep got to use his ATA gene a lot! Smart, sexy and whumped Shep is always a plus!

I really enjoyed the Larrin/Shep dialogue, but then again *brace yourselves people* I love smut and innuendo... So for me it was all good. I think Shep getting kidnapped for his ATA gene was an original idea, not like PU (which personally thought was crap)! And the only connection I can make between the two eps is a) There was a female warrior b) There were ships involved.

So for those saying it was a rehash, I respectfully disagree.

There were a few twists and turns that I didn't expect, which I love. But I do think there'd been too much information before it aired. It did seem as if we'd seen most of the ep before it aired. They really need to stop giving away the whole plot. :lol:

Loved Shep using his smarts and being rebellious and deliberately trying to piss Larrin off. He's very good at that. And I thought the SOS was clever... although I do remember this happening in an STNG ep... I digress.

I did miss the team though. I honestly thought they were going to rescue him, and once more he rescued himself. *sigh* One day.

Overall, it was good to see Shep going into soldier mode and getting pissed off and resorting to snark. :lol: Usually Rodney get's those joys... but I loved the team doing anything to get to Shep, and Ronon's line in saying that even if there were a tonne of hive ships they'd still go after him. *luffs Ronon* He's becoming such a big teddy bear. I did miss a 'leader type prescence' in the ep, and would have liked to have seen all the PJ's getting into a big fire fight with the Wraith/Travelers that would have been cool.

Overall though. I loved it... *reads post* I know it may not seem like that, but I didn't think you'd all appreaciate if I did a whole page of squee. ;)



Reunion was better than todays.

Let's see:

Predictable things:
Larrin/Shep banter
Wraith feeding & returning life.
Borrowed elements from PU.
Kissing.


Fun facts:
Ronon's gun trivia. That was nice.

Fun to watch:
Shep getting whumpped hard - by a girl.

What was up with the rest of the team? Suddenly Rodney's in charge? No one felt strange that the Head of science team was running the rescue mission and pretty much the back end of the show? No background given? Lorne had what 2 or 3 lines? The jumper formation, I guess they loved the Adrift one so much, they're going to want to repeat this. Teyla & Ronon - still under used as ever.

When they said the show will go dark this season, I didn't realize they meant they forgot to pay the light bill and it would be literally dark.

Anywho, moving along.

Why did you think the Larrin feeding/giving back her life was predictable? I didn't see it coming and normally I can see these sorts of things. Just curious. I did love that we got some continuity in this ep. With Shep remembering what it was like to be fed on, and his facial expressions. Which was really a bless moment. *sniff*

Rodney wasn't leading the team as far as I saw it, Lorne was. Otherwise why would Lorne be there? I wonder if he's Shep's 2IC?


Honestly, I thought this episode sucked... big time. Sheppard should have tried to secure the ship instead of succumbing to the usual Kirk BS he always does. As soon as Larrin's men we dead, he should have taken steps to disable her, preferably by shooting her in the head, breaking little Larrin's neck, or at least letting the Wraith finish its job (God, she annoyed me and deserved to die), and taken the ship back to Atlantis instead of trying to get in her pants like he ALWAYS does.

Firstly Arturis... let the games begin. ;)

Shep did actually lock her away in the control room with the chair, and she blasted the ship's hanger doors. Thus disabling her. :D Don't you think strangling is a little excessive and personal? As far as he was concerned she was secured.. which she was, he even disabled the power, but she blasted the door away.

Secondly, she initiated things to get his weapon (minds out the gutter please) :P And women are very sneaky and can usually get whatever they want. Shep always gets into people's pants? Really? Can you point me to that episode please as i've been wanting to see Shep nekkid for what seems like eternity. I can't possibly imagine how I could have missed that! And there's nothing like a good sex scene to increase the ratings! Wow, no wonder Atlantis got renewed for a season 5 if Shep's been doing it all over the galaxy! ;)



But, then again, if he had done that he and Rodney would have figured a way to destroy it inside of an episode. I'm glad the ship wasn't destroyed, but the stupid Travelers (worst. race. ever... and here's to hoping that either the Wraith or the Replicators (YES, REPLICATORS, NOT ASURANS, they haven't been called Asurans since they were found out to be REPLICATORS) destroy them all) shouldn't have gotten it either. All this episode really proved to me is that the Air Force needs to have Sheppard chemically castrated so that this crap never happens again. Easily the worst episode of the season so far.

Why do I get the impression you don't like Shep? Maybe it's my spidysense tingling again, you know i'm very good at observing what people do and don't like. Am I hot, cold? ;) So, what was it that you disliked about the Travelers?



After this episode Sheppard needs to be shot. We lost an Aurora class ship because he couldn't keep it in his pants for God's sake!!

I can't believe it! This must be a first CC, because I couldn't agree more that Shep should be shot though preferably though not in the left arm. :P

If he'd have taken it out of his pants, I may very well have spontaneously combusted with squee, thank goodness THAT never happened, otherwise i'd have missed the remainder of Season 4! :eek:

For shame, I never realised that one kiss = slut. :eek: Wow! Who knew I was such a slut! Go me! :P

*cough* If the roles were reversed and say it was caldwell kissing Larrin... I wonder if he would also be called a slut?!


Is there some connection to that name "Reed Richards?" I think I'm missing the whole joke there, the name doesn't ring a bell.

i wondered the same thing.

Linzi
October 27th, 2007, 03:46 PM
Short and sweet from me for a change.

Pros

Shep got to use his ATA gene a lot! Smart, sexy and whumped Shep is always a plus!

I really enjoyed the Larrin/Shep dialogue, but then again *brace yourselves people* I love smut and innuendo... So for me it was all good. I think Shep getting kidnapped for his ATA gene was an original idea, not like PU (which personally thought was crap)! And the only connection I can make between the two eps is a) There was a female warrior b) There were ships involved.

So for those saying it was a rehash, I respectfully disagree.

There were a few twists and turns that I didn't expect, which I love. But I do think there'd been too much information before it aired. It did seem as if we'd seen most of the ep before it aired. They really need to stop giving away the whole plot. :lol:

Loved Shep using his smarts and being rebellious and deliberately trying to piss Larrin off. He's very good at that. And I thought the SOS was clever... although I do remember this happening in an STNG ep... I digress.

I did miss the team though. I honestly thought they were going to rescue him, and once more he rescued himself. *sigh* One day.

Overall, it was good to see Shep going into soldier mode and getting pissed off and resorting to snark. :lol: Usually Rodney get's those joys... but I loved the team doing anything to get to Shep, and Ronon's line in saying that even if there were a tonne of hive ships they'd still go after him. *luffs Ronon* He's becoming such a big teddy bear. I did miss a 'leader type prescence' in the ep, and would have liked to have seen all the PJ's getting into a big fire fight with the Wraith/Travelers that would have been cool.

Overall though. I loved it... *reads post* I know it may not seem like that, but I didn't think you'd all appreaciate if I did a whole page of squee. ;)




Why did you think the Larrin feeding/giving back her life was predictable? I didn't see it coming and normally I can see these sorts of things. Just curious. I did love that we got some continuity in this ep. With Shep remembering what it was like to be fed on, and his facial expressions. Which was really a bless moment. *sniff*

Rodney wasn't leading the team as far as I saw it, Lorne was. Otherwise why would Lorne be there? I wonder if he's Shep's 2IC?



Firstly Arturis... let the games begin. ;)

Shep did actually lock her away in the control room with the chair, and she blasted the ship's hanger doors. Thus disabling her. :D Don't you think strangling is a little excessive and personal? As far as he was concerned she was secured.. which she was, he even disabled the power, but she blasted the door away.

Secondly, she initiated things to get his weapon (minds out the gutter please) :P And women are very sneaky and can usually get whatever they want. Shep always gets into people's pants? Really? Can you point me to that episode please as i've been wanting to see Shep nekkid. Can't imagine how I could have possibly missed that! And there's nothing like a good sex scene to increase the ratings! Wow, no woder Atlantis got renewed for a season 5 if Shep's been doing it all over the galaxy! ;)




Why do I get the impression you don't like Shep? Maybe it's my spidysense tingling again, you know i'm very good at observing what people do and don't like. Am I hot, cold? ;) So, what was it that you disliked about the Travelers?




Oh you know what, I can't believe it! This must be a first CC, because I couldn't agree more that Shep should be shot (preferably though not in the left arm). :P

If he'd have taken it out of his pants, I may very well have spontaneously combusted with squee, thank goodness THAT never happened!

For shame, I never realised that one kiss = slut. :eek: Wow! Who knew I was such a slut! Go me! :P

*cough* If the roles were reversed and say it was caldwell kissing Larrin... I wonder if he would also be called a slut?!



i wondered the same thing.

Great post! I agree with all you say, and you say it all in such a unique way! :lol:

Mr Richards is the leader of the Fantastic Four, sweetie! :)

Agent_Dark
October 27th, 2007, 03:46 PM
needed moar carter imo.

Pegasus_SGA
October 27th, 2007, 03:47 PM
Great post! I agree with all you say, and you say it all such a unique way! :lol:

Mr Richards is the leader of the Fantastic Four, sweetie! :)

That all makes perfect sense now as Shep really is "Mr Fantastic" :P

*waits for the tomatoes* :D

Mattathias2.0
October 27th, 2007, 03:51 PM
For those of us not into comics :P


Is there some connection to that name "Reed Richards?" I think I'm missing the whole joke there, the name doesn't ring a bell.



i wondered the same thing.

From First Strike

Sheppard: ...See, I would be Mr. Fantastic, Ronon would be "The Thing", McKay would be the Human Torch and you would be the Invisible Woman.

Teyla: I am not invisible.


Mr. Fantastic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Fantastic)

EDIT: Darnit, I was beaten!

Linzi
October 27th, 2007, 03:53 PM
That all makes perfect sense now as Shep really is "Mr Fantastic" :P

*waits for the tomatoes* :D
He sure is, hon! :)

Pegasus_SGA
October 27th, 2007, 03:55 PM
For those of us not into comics :P





From First Strike


Mr. Fantastic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Fantastic)

EDIT: Darnit, I was beaten!
Ta hon... :o

I just didn't know that was his name. :lol: I'd have got it if Shep had said he was Mr Fantastic, as I remember the reference in FS, but not by that name... Suddenly i'm feeling very girly. :lol:

Mattathias2.0
October 27th, 2007, 04:03 PM
Ta hon... :o

I just didn't know that was his name. :lol: I'd have got it if Shep had said he was Mr Fantastic, as I remember the reference in FS, but not by that name... Suddenly i'm feeling very girly. :lol:

I've been feeling girly for months. No worries.

siXbrownSnakes2
October 27th, 2007, 04:04 PM
You're right about Irresistible, my bad; when I was thinking about the episodes, it must have seemed inconceivable to me that having created such a repulsive character like Lucius Lavin, that a different writer would want to go and revisit said scumbag in another episode. Now that I know how they film and broadcast, I suppose the whole season had been filmed by the time they realised how very badly Lavin was perceived?

However, I don't agree that Mallozzi has really taken responsibility for the weaknesses in his own episode: I read the post in which he listed what he thought went wrong with various eps, and all he mentioned about Irresponsible was that the setting was all wrong, and that they wanted a Wild West village, but that fell through, and so they ended up settling for Ye Olde Mittel-Europa Village Set . . . Dude, that's not what was wrong with your episode! Besides wasting the best human villain SGA has ever had (and wasting Robert Davi), the problem with Irresponsible was that they glorified a character who was essentially an unrepentant rapist: by making him funny, they implied that rape was funny. Oh my aching sides, how I laughed.

agreed with everything. The one thing I can't help but notice is JM always seems to say "This will be the best 2 parter ever!" or "This episode is HUGE. It gets my vote for best episode of the year." or "definitely going to be the fan favorite for this year" or more commonly "we watched the first cut of episode XX today and it's an excellent episode!".

i KNOW he said something like that for Camelot, and I thought Camelot was boring and uneventful obviously until the ending which seemed to take up half of the season's budget. Obvoiusly there are others, and NONE of them seemed to live up to the great expectations bestowed upon them by TPTB.

And he's already said that stuff about the season 4 mid-season 2 parter, Kindred and Last Man. I guess I can expect these episodes to be bad too.

Furthermore, I really start to wonder how these episodes get out of the production office alive. For example, Reunion:
How does someone in the writer's circle NOT go, "Oh, we all know Ronan isn't going to leave Atlantis, so doesn't that make this great plot twist a bit predictable?"
I mean, come on. EVERYONE saw that coming. How does stuff like The Tower make it out? Allies? Don't the writers look at their own work from a fan's perspective? (aka common sense perspective)

Obviously not.

A good example of a great stand-alone episode is SG-1 S5's Between Two Fires--an excellently written episode that played a role in ongoing story arcs. Apparently well thought out, well written episodes like that aren't on the menu anymore. :(

elbo
October 27th, 2007, 04:12 PM
I'm not very impressed with these Travelers and i don't get the part where they suppose to be more advanced than us. They don't even have a better understanding of ancient tech than us even if they theoreticaly have access to this kind of tech for thousands of years as opposed with few years we learn about it.

Their hand guns seem to be very effective against metallic alloys but on organic cells they have 0 penetration, they just produce a minor burn. More, they seem to expand the amunition very quickly as opposed to Ronon's gun. I still find our weapons to be the most effective in combat for as long there is enough ammo (and usually there is), in all SG universe.

Their ships look technological inferior to ours (before Asgard upgrades), rusty, full of wires (they seem from BSG, no offence). I doubt that they have something close to beaming technology, intergalactic hiperdrive or laser guns.

They also don't look very smart, in kidnapping and torturing people who have in posession superior technology and such a tactical advantage like Atlantis or cloacking technology. I though that only the Genii are such limited and short-sighted in PG. Another race from SG universe who is facing with a progressive demise but seem incapable of passing over the small needs of the moment and to look to the bigger picture. Are you aware that we were never contacted by anyone for the purpose of making an alliance? We are so desperate in finding new tech, Wraith weakness, new and powerfull allies etc that you would belive that our planet/galaxy is in iminent danger, that we are the ones stuck in space for thousands of years.

More curious, Larrin looked like she never saw a Wraith in her life, had no ideea about the Wraith restoration abilities,etc. The others included seemed very scared to the prospect of actualy encouther a Cruiser. How the things were presented, one can find more acurate intel about the Wraith or willingless to engage them in battle or info the PG activities in a village tavern rather than to the Travelers, as well as better allies.

There are still few pieces missing, like what weapons those ships use, but i guess that some weak projectile as well, not being build for space fight but for avoiding fighting.

Overhall a good episode, but i'm dissapointed of the 'Travelers' concept and especially their mentality.

Ruffles
October 27th, 2007, 04:23 PM
I did miss the team though. I honestly thought they were going to rescue him, and once more he rescued himself. *sigh* One day.

I can't believe this, but I'm going to disagree with you, Peg. He didn't save himself. She let him go. Admittedly, his actions spoke as loud as his words since he saved her life, etc. and he had some good points about the direction in which her people were headed. But in the end, all he could do was sit in his cell and hope.

And he did get rescued in Reunion....


I'm not very impressed with these Travelers and i don't get the part where they suppose to be more advanced than us. They don't even have a better understanding of ancient tech than us even if they theoreticaly have access to this kind of tech for thousands of years as opposed with few years we learn about it.

Their hand guns seem to be very effective against metallic alloys but on organic cells they have 0 penetration, they just produce a minor burn. More, they seem to expand the amunition very quickly as opposed to Ronon's gun. I still find our weapons to be the most effective in combat for as long there is enough ammo (and usually there is), in all SG universe.

Their ships look technological inferior to ours (before Asgard upgrades), rusty, full of wires (they seem from BSG, no offence). I doubt that they have something close to beaming technology, intergalactic hiperdrive or laser guns.

They also don't look very smart, in kidnapping and torturing people who have in posession superior technology and such a tactical advantage like Atlantis or cloacking technology. I though that only the Genii are such limited and short-sighted in PG. Another race from SG universe who is facing with a progressive demise but seem incapable of passing over the small needs of the moment and to look to the bigger picture. Are you aware that we were never contacted by anyone for the purpose of making an alliance? We are so desperate in finding new tech, Wraith weakness, new and powerfull allies etc that you would belive that our planet/galaxy is in iminent danger, that we are the ones stuck in space for thousands of years.

More curious, Larrin looked like she never saw a Wraith in her life, had no idea about the Wraith restoration abilities,etc. The others included seemed very scared to the prospect of actualy encouther a Cruiser. How the things were presented, one can find more acurate intel about the Wraith or willingless to engage them in battle or info the PG activities in a village tavern rather than to the Travelers, as well as better allies.

There are still few pieces missing, like what weapons those ships use, but i guess that some weak projectile as well, not being build for space fight but for avoiding fighting.

Overhall a good episode, but i'm dissapointed of the 'Travelers' concept and especially their mentality.

I didn't think they were supposed to be more technologically advance than Atlantis, just more advanced than the rest of Pegasus. But if Earth didn't have Lantian tech (and Asgard tech) the Travelers would be more advanced.

Teyla and Ronon were both shocked when the Wraith restored Sheppard in Common Ground. I don't think that ability is widely known.

I did have a couple of questions about the ep: 1) how did Larrin use the LSD, 2) did Sheppard get to keep that blaster, 3) why couldn't Rodney detect John's sub-cu transmitter when they got close to the ships 4) how did John get back in the jumper (although I liked Ali's explanation that they used the jumper to get from the Traveler ship to the Lantian ship).

Pegasus_SGA
October 27th, 2007, 04:29 PM
I'm not very impressed with these Travelers and i don't get the part where they suppose to be more advanced than us. They don't even have a better understanding of ancient tech than us even if they theoreticaly have access to this kind of tech for thousands of years as opposed with few years we learn about it.

How can I put it? It's like you can turn on a light and not know the mechanics behind it. According to Larrin, their people are able to retro-engineer quite a lot of stuff, but they needed someone with the ATA gene to activate the ship. i'm sure it was explained that they were scavengers and just take what they need.



Their hand guns seem to be very effective against metallic alloys but on organic cells they have 0 penetration, they just produce a minor burn. More, they seem to expand the amunition very quickly as opposed to Ronon's gun. I still find our weapons to be the most effective in combat for as long there is enough ammo (and usually there is), in all SG universe.

I don't remember her using that weapon on a person? Was there a scene where she did that?


Their ships look technological inferior to ours (before Asgard upgrades), rusty, full of wires (they seem from BSG, no offence). I doubt that they have something close to beaming technology, intergalactic hiperdrive or laser guns.

Maybe not, but they had a very cool force field. :D I had a feeling that, the part of the ship was more the egineering side of the ship as opposed to the 'generational area'. As once you got out of the holding are it seemed a bit like Atlantis.


They also don't look very smart, in kidnapping and torturing people who have in posession superior technology and such a tactical advantage like Atlantis or cloacking technology. I though that only the Genii are such limited and short-sighted in PG. Another race from SG universe who is facing with a progressive demise but seem incapable of passing over the small needs of the moment and to look to the bigger picture. Are you aware that we were never contacted by anyone for the purpose of making an alliance? We are so desperate in finding new tech, Wraith weakness, new and powerfull allies etc that you would belive that our planet/galaxy is in iminent danger, that we are the ones stuck in space for thousands of years.

Torture has always been an effective method of extracting information. What do you do when you want answers? You break their will, their resilience until they reach a point of their own personal threshold (and everyone's is different) and use it to your advantage. It's standard interrogation techniques. How I see it is, they've been used to living/surviving on their own for what? Maybe thousands of years, reliant on their own survival skills and cunning. For those that have been living on the 'edge' they would find it very hard to broke an alliance, and i my opinion wouldn't trust anyone, unless that person offered first. But they'd have to proove themselves in the process and I think Shep did that by saving Larrin when he didn't have to.


More curious, Larrin looked like she never saw a Wraith in her life, had no ideea about the Wraith restoration abilities,etc. The others included seemed very scared to the prospect of actualy encouther a Cruiser. How the things were presented, one can find more acurate intel about the Wraith or willingless to engage them in battle or info the PG activities in a village tavern rather than to the Travelers, as well as better allies.

There are still few pieces missing, like what weapons those ships use, but i guess that some weak projectile as well, not being build for space fight but for avoiding fighting.

Overhall a good episode, but i'm dissapointed of the 'Travelers' concept and especially their mentality.

maybe she never has seen one? She may have heard about them, or faced them in battle, but maybe not seen one up close and personal?

Pegasus_SGA
October 27th, 2007, 04:36 PM
I can't believe this, but I'm going to disagree with you, Peg. He didn't save himself. She let him go. Admittedly, his actions spoke as loud as his words since he saved her life, etc. and he had some good points about the direction in which her people were headed. But in the end, all he could do was sit in his cell and hope.

And he did get rescued in Reunion....

One of my own disagreeing with me! :eek: Oh Ruffles, you wound me! ;)

I see what you're saying, but I still see it different. From my perspective she only let him go, because Shep gave Larrin something she desperately needed, an alliance. So by offering up that suggestion he effectly saved himself. :lol:

*luffed that scene with him in the cell after capture*

I'll give you the reunion bit. :D




I didn't think they were supposed to be more technologically advance than Atlantis, just more advanced than the rest of Pegasus. But if Earth didn't have Lantian tech (and Asgard tech) the Travelers would be more advanced.

Teyla and Ronon were both shocked when the Wraith restored Sheppard in Common Ground. I don't think that ability is widely known.

I did have a couple of questions about the ep: 1) how did Larrin use the LSD, 2) did Sheppard get to keep that blaster, 3) why couldn't Rodney detect John's sub-cu transmitter when they got close to the ships 4) how did John get back in the jumper (although I liked Ali's explanation that they used the jumper to get from the Traveler ship to the Lantian ship).

I agree... see I knew we could come to a concensus. :P I loved that bit of continuity, and I think you're right hon. *does her Michael Caine impersonation* Not a lot of people know that! ;) I don't think the wraith publicise that ability at all, so i'm not surprised that larrin wasn't aware of thier abilities.

As for the LSD... yes, well. There's two sides to this, one was no one except and ata gene user, could use it. And the other one was if an ATA gene device had been activated by someone it could be used by anyone... but your guess is as good as mine. :lol:

Ltcolshepjumper
October 27th, 2007, 04:47 PM
About the LSD... I don't think Shep turned it off.

Redhooks
October 27th, 2007, 05:01 PM
About the LSD... I don't think Shep turned it off.
Sheppard specifically said to Col. Everett in The Siege, Pt.2 that it wouldn't do him any good to have the LSD, because he needed the gene to operate it. Then Everett said, "I got the gene innoculation too" which allowed him to use it. A one or two sentence statement that this LSD was different or just Larrin grabing it and Sheppard being surprised that it worked for her with him saying something about it was different then the other ones he has encountered would have sufficed for me.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 27th, 2007, 05:07 PM
I really like Jill Wagner. She was actually really good in Blade (not to mention she is quite attractive), but I have to agree that there was something off with her performance in the episode. I kept getting the feeling like she didn't want to be there, or that she was constantly rolling her eyes while off camera. I did think she had decent rapport with JF, so I'm curious if they'll bring her back.

I thought it was great that they found another Ancient warship, but one has to start wondering how many of these ships are littering the spaceways around the galaxy like trash the Ancients threw out their car while cruising down the interstate. But the episode really was predictable. First, how convenient that Larrin only brings two lackeys with her to take control of an Ancient warship that she thought could house 1,000 people, and even more convenient that they happen to die right before the Wraith ship is destroyed. Did she really think she'd need only one security idiot to guard Sheppard (the other dude was apparently only there to be a science nerd)?

The whole Spy vs. Spy thing was kind of entertaining at first, but also played out rather predictably. I knew as soon as Sheppard put the stunner in the back of his pants what would happen, and sure enough, he let himself get sucked in yet again by a beautiful woman. I swear Sheppard loses the ability to think clearly whenever he's around a Hot Alien Chick. Why would he even get that close to somebody who'd done everything she could previously to have an advantage over him?

The one thing that really stuck with me from the episode though is the whole Ronon gun bit. I just didn't get that at all. What was the point? I thought it was kind of stupid honestly. I mean, how many times has Ronon's gun ever run out of juice the entire time he's been on the show? I can't remember a single time (doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I just don't remember) that it's done so. Yet in this episode, the gun Sheppard has just happens to run out of power, ammo, whatever, right at the precise moment he needs it most. Okay. Plus, the background they tried to establish for it didn't actually reveal all that much. So the gun is a Travelers weapon, so what? What does that tell me? Not much. Kind of like Sateda where you think you're going to get this great story about Ronon's background, but instead you just get a lot of slow motion and grunting.

I agree. Sheppard was kinda stupid. Once the Wraith had gone, her should have stunned her and started to repair the ship's hyperdrives. Or at least contacted Mckay. The only thing I don't like about the gun belonging to the Travelers is that its kinda out of place. It doesn't really gel with their style.
I am also annoyed by the fact that, one, there are no fully functional Ancient ships out there. second, why does every one (except for the Orion) have to be drifting out in space, with less than 50% power? can't there be an Ancient ship that is almost completed and fully functional? Especially since the asurans have ships now.

Orion's Star
October 27th, 2007, 05:29 PM
Well, to be fair, Ronon has never fired the gun repeatedly and continuously, enough to melt through a metal wall. :D I know Ronon seems to fire the thing about without any concern for how long the charge will last but I don't think we've ever seen him fire it as much as it was fired in this episode (twice on the bridge by Sheppard), multiple times by Larrin to escape the chair room, 3-4 times? to shoot the Wraith and another 3 times to finish it off.

I'm guessing the power cells, or whatever they are, can be recharged as otherwise I don't know where Ronon would get a constant supply from?

You're right, I think. About how many times Ronon has fired his gun at one point, I mean. You know, I always assumed it had like an infinite power cell, like the equivalent of a mini-ZPM, because Ronon never seems to worry about the charge. I just figured that was part of the gun's design. Which I think is why it bothered me so much that the other gun ran out of power. It seemed so incongrous with what we've been shown on the show before.

garhkal
October 27th, 2007, 05:45 PM
had no ideea about the Wraith restoration abilities,etc.

Well to be on their defense, we never knew about it, neither did Teyla, and her people have lived with the wraith for a long time.

squire.spotz
October 27th, 2007, 06:17 PM
on the gun burning metal but not people it is probably a stun only version of ronans and is possibly less efficiant.

on the power outage thing it was wired but hapens mabye those cells last ages and just happened to run out of juice when shep needed it, who cares

another side issue why are leaders of most pegasus planets/ groups female
i bet by season five wier will be leading the replicators

PG15
October 27th, 2007, 06:25 PM
Ok, so Travelers is basically the normal Sci-Fi plot of the main guy going alone on a mission, gets kidnapped by a sexy (female) alien, squares off with her with unsurmontable amount of sexual tension, fights the bad guys together while arguing oh-so-cutely, and at the end, the main guy gets the glory and the girl. So typical and cliched.

So why was Travelers SO BLEEPING AWESOME?!

Seriously, I HATED these episodes when they appeared on Star Trek or...heck, any other Sci-Fi show. I even hated it when this happened on past Stargate episodes, but, well, once again Season 4 TPTB struck it out of the park and brought home a (for me) seriously entertaining hour of television. It's mesmerizing how everything seems to have one-upped itself this season. It's five-for-five, people!

Let me start with the shallow end of the pool. No, not Larrin; I'm not talking about how I fanboyed over her for pretty much most of the episode, no, because there's much more to her than a pretty face and a hot body, and I will get to that soon. First, let me get through the CGI. This episode had 5, count them: 5 CGI shots that were just plain EPIC:

1. End of the teaser: marvelous score by Joel accompanies this great pull-out shot of Shep's PJ getting PJ-napped by the Travelers' ship. I think it's awesome that TPTB are creating these long and sweeping shots instead of inserting a bunch of quick, chaotic ones *cough*BSG*cough*. Well done.

2. "There's an Ancient ship under me!" WOW. Seriously good idea here. Once again, the music helped a lot (did I detect a trace of choral music in there? Score!), and...damn, I wished I was Shep then, just so I can see this massive, beautiful vessel coming into view beneath me. Who cares if I could die at any moment, look at that ship!!

3. The Wraith Cruiser dropping out of hyperspace vertically was masterfully done and not often seen. A short sequence, but appreciated.

4. Drones! **** yeah! Right, so that scene of the drones slicing the cruiser into many bite-sized pieces was just heart-pumping. Kick-ass!

5. Finally, the end shot of the Ancient ship and the Travelers' ships jumping into hyperspace; another short shot, but you really get to appreciate the size of the Ancient ship, and I loved it.

Ok, now that that's out of my system, let's inch ever closer to talking about the Larrin/Sheppard dynamic in this episode. In other words, I'm not gonna talk about it just yet. For now, I'll just cover the small bits we had with the rest of the cast. While small in terms of quantity, I thought it was wonderful to see them trying so hard to find him. Ronon's line was a tad cheesy at first (e.g. too Trekkie), but Lorne's resolute "no" really sealed it for me. Good job team! You really gotta appreciate the fact that if it were not for Shep's message, they'd REALLY have nothing to go on.

Alright, that's that. Oh, you know who I loved in this episode? LARRIN, that's who! My God, what a body great casting choice! Jill Wagner just blew me away, seriously, I just...yeah. The one thing that really got me to love her was her legs the fact that once in a while you really see a vulnerable side of her. She's not totally screwed up like Vala, who had no choice but to put a brick wall in front of her to hide her insecurities; no, Larrin doesn't have that luxury; her whole people depended on her, after all, and she can't hide from them her insecurities all the time. She'll just have to learn to get over them. Usually, these guest stars aren't nearly as developed IMHO as she is, but damn, she was just wonderful. Of course, I gotta thank Paul Mullie as well, who wrote this episode. Great stuff.

The only thing that entertained me more than Larrin in this episode, is the Larrin/Sheppard dynamic. What a pair! As I said in my intro, I usually hate the tough cookie/main hero's banterings, as they are usually so cliched, but this, while yes, a little cliched at times, once again blew me away. I gotta give props to Joe Flanigan too, of course (he's the other half of the pair, obviously), as he really didn't put up with her crap; he challenged her, and that was very very...in character. And now, we seg into...

Sheppard! He was ON FORM this episode people! Brilliant moves using the (lack of) internal dampeners and overall getting control of the situation. I guess Larrin didn't bet on Sheppard spending weeks on an Aurora-class ship more than a year ago, and she certainly met her match. Speaking of match, I have a feeling that Shep was just waiting for someone like this. He's obviously a kind of rebel, and I certainly get the impression that he was enjoying acting all...trolly, teasing her and sealing her in the chair room and stuff; in general it's the same feeling I get while making fun of people on this board. ;)

So yeah, back to the dynamic between the two. There's really nothing more that I can say about it besides the fact that I loved it. The two didn't go out of their way to make it funny or to annoy each other, no, they just discussed the situation normally and teased when there was a window of opportunity. Wonderfully done, wonderfully written, wonderfully acted. Just...wonderful!

About that Prometheus Unbound vibe people were talking about...nope, sorry, didn't see it at all. I was trying to look for it too, since I carefully read some of this thread before watching (and I was spoiled on Larrin's Wraithing, unfortunately, which is why I haven't mentioned it...still, had me puzzled as to how she'd get better...until Shep had his gun to the Wraith's head...but I digress), and while technically there were a lot of similarities, I just didn't get the same vibe watching that episode as I did while I watched this one.

Now, I gotta talk about that last bit. Knowing what I do about future episodes, I really appreciated the foreshadowing that was going on with Shep saying something like "with all your tech and weapons, it could really tip the balance". TPTB has said that they're planning more this year and adding small plot threads that run throughout the season, and so far I have yet to see them miss a step. It was also nice them mentioning the Replicator-Wraith war again.

Season 4...wow, best season yet, by far; and it can only get better if (when) Larrin and her band of Travelers return.

Score: 10/10

ParisWinters
October 27th, 2007, 06:28 PM
I loved the music theme that played during the first reveal of the Battleship. Does anyone know if this is the first time it's been used? Or is it in other episodes? (This is certainly the first time I noticed it).

ToasterOnFire
October 27th, 2007, 07:03 PM
What the heck you asking me for?
Hey, you responded to me first. Besides, it was more of an open question and Melora did a fine job answering it. :)


Why does he refer to himself when he talks about Irresponsible, but Paul when he talks about The Tower. Go and ask on his blog about it. Unless you're one of those anti's who's scared to go on Joe's blog.;)
Nah, I'm one of those antis that has little interest in dealing with his blog due to the antagonism, censorship, and excessive amounts of OTT fanboy and troll comments. ;)

SG13-NightOps
October 27th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Well if we can count on one thing from TPTB - they are consistant with their inconsistancies.

Other than the inference that Ronon's gun has some kind of energizers (just keeps going and going and going)..... Good Ep. Not much to say - it felt more pointless than it was.


Pros: History of Ronon's Gun
Another Aurora Class Warship out there
JF is awesome.

Cons: Plot Hole on the gun! (EVIL!!!)
Shep Kirking!
Not enough Fatman and Ronon :( :D

Hotep Ka Heru'ur
October 27th, 2007, 07:34 PM
While I enjoyed season 4 so far (especially Doppelganger), this episode to me is very representative of what's generally wrong with SGA: it's totally unstable. Not only do they have too many characters and don't know what to do with them, so many of them end up being replaced or just as wallpaper - it seems the writers don't know what to do with the different races they introduce.

In season 1 the Wraith were introduced as the new über villain that were almost impossible to kill and I was really impressed with them at first. Some time in season 2, they seemed less and less intimidating, and now they're just green vampires with plastic guns, yawn.

There were the Geni, at first a rather interesting military people with different fractions and you never quite knew if you could trust them... ended up being a dead end too, haven't heard anything interesting from them lately, either.

Then came the Replicators... yawn! Really? 6 years of Replicators (human form or not) on SG-1 and this is the new enemy youre going to introduce? Awesome. Not.

And now the Travelers... appearantly many many people living on conlony ships. An interesting conception, too bad we found out virtually nothing about them, except, well they are space nomads and their leader is a hot chick and they are pretty bad ass and you don't quite know if you can trust them. Geni in Space, yippieh.

Granted, we will see more of them and they should get more interesting than this, but it was a very poor way of introducing them... because we learned almost nothing about them. I hope the writers have something really big and substantial in plan for them, otherwise they might soon join the ranks of the Wraith, Geni and Asuran Replicators - the club of SGA's cool new races of the season whom the writers at some point had nothing new to say about, or who were simply unimaginative, like the Replicators.

Aside from character development and team interactions, this trend shows why SG-1 was vastly superior to SGA: they had decent races and found interesting stuff to do with them for a long time. IMO, the Goa'uld didn't become boring until Season 8.

But I'm still optimistic the show will somehow stabilize itself soon. Now that season 5 has been confirmed, the writers have time to think of something.

PG15
October 27th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Heh, is this the "Travelers" thread, or the "bash JM who had nothing to do with this episode Thread"?


So who's responsible for the terrible twosome, ie Irresistible and Irresponsible? Please don't tell me that was Joe on his own! Urgh, another reason to hate that man - say it ain't so, Joe!



"hate"? A bit strong, don't you think? I certainly don't hate anybody I don't know...


agreed with everything. The one thing I can't help but notice is JM always seems to say "This will be the best 2 parter ever!" or "This episode is HUGE. It gets my vote for best episode of the year." or "definitely going to be the fan favorite for this year" or more commonly "we watched the first cut of episode XX today and it's an excellent episode!".

i KNOW he said something like that for Camelot, and I thought Camelot was boring and uneventful obviously until the ending which seemed to take up half of the season's budget. Obvoiusly there are others, and NONE of them seemed to live up to the great expectations bestowed upon them by TPTB.

Well he IS allowed to express his opinions on the episodes, no? It's not his fault that you thought you two shared the same brain so that you'll both feel the same way about the episode.




Furthermore, I really start to wonder how these episodes get out of the production office alive. For example, Reunion:
How does someone in the writer's circle NOT go, "Oh, we all know Ronan isn't going to leave Atlantis, so doesn't that make this great plot twist a bit predictable?"

I didn't see that particular twist coming, I can tell you that. Now, are you going to go down the predictable route of insulting my intellegence?



I mean, come on. EVERYONE saw that coming. How does stuff like The Tower make it out? Allies? Don't the writers look at their own work from a fan's perspective? (aka common sense perspective)

Obviously not.

Oh that's rich. Fans can write pages upon pages of complaints about teeny tiny details and you think they have common sense? Not to mention the fact that there must be waaaay many numbers of different common senses since fans tend to differ in their opinions on what's good and what isn't. Seriously, how are they going to see it from the fans' perspective when we fans can't even agree on what our perspective is?!


A good example of a great stand-alone episode is SG-1 S5's Between Two Fires--an excellently written episode that played a role in ongoing story arcs. Apparently well thought out, well written episodes like that aren't on the menu anymore. :(

Heh, I never liked that episode. Actually, I never liked the Tollans, period.

prion
October 27th, 2007, 07:42 PM
Well if we can count on one thing from TPTB - they are consistant with their inconsistancies.



Yup, very true ;)


Alright, that's that. Oh, you know who I loved in this episode? LARRIN, that's who! My God, what a body great casting choice! Jill Wagner just blew me away, seriously, I just...yeah. The one thing that really got me to love her was her legs the fact that once in a while you really see a vulnerable side of her. She's not totally screwed up like Vala, who had no choice but to put a brick wall in front of her to hide her insecurities; no, Larrin doesn't have that luxury; her whole people depended on her, after all, and she can't hide from them her insecurities all the time. She'll just have to learn to get over them. Usually, these guest stars aren't nearly as developed IMHO as she is, but damn, she was just wonderful. Of course, I gotta thank Paul Mullie as well, who wrote this episode. Great stuff.


to me, Larrin was the biggest detractor to the episode because in some scenes, the delivery of lines was just, well, meh, flat, uninteresting.


I agree. Sheppard was kinda stupid. Once the Wraith had gone, her should have stunned her and started to repair the ship's hyperdrives. Or at least contacted Mckay. The only thing I don't like about the gun belonging to the Travelers is that its kinda out of place. It doesn't really gel with their style.


The worst scene in the episode was wussy wraith slinking off to his ship (yeah, sure, since when do wraith do that??) but worse, neither shep nor larrin actually made sure he did leave! no, she's too busy putting the moves on Shep and Shep is too busy letting his, uh, other set of brains work, and well, we saw where that got him. aiee, men ;)


Sheppard specifically said to Col. Everett in The Siege, Pt.2 that it wouldn't do him any good to have the LSD, because he needed the gene to operate it. Then Everett said, "I got the gene innoculation too" which allowed him to use it. A one or two sentence statement that this LSD was different or just Larrin grabing it and Sheppard being surprised that it worked for her with him saying something about it was different then the other ones he has encountered would have sufficed for me.

Continuity, continuity, continuity.....

Xicer
October 27th, 2007, 07:42 PM
I'm surprised nobody's written a fan review for this episode yet...

majorsal
October 27th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Edit: I missed Carter here. Just a few words from her about finding Sheppard and sending the team out to find him. I know that AT was only contracted for 14 episodes, so some she couldn't be around for, but I did miss her here. :)

as a sam fan, that was nice to hear. :)



sally :)

prion
October 27th, 2007, 07:59 PM
I'm surprised nobody's written a fan review for this episode yet...

Oh my there are loads of fan reviews, but just not up on GW. Check out the LJ community: http://community.livejournal.com/sga_newsletter/ has nearly two dozen listed!

majorsal
October 27th, 2007, 07:59 PM
I see what you're saying, but I still see it different. From my perspective she only let him go, because Shep gave Larrin something she desperately needed, an alliance. So by offering up that suggestion he effectly saved himself. :lol:




speaking of this scene, does anyone have the transcript for it? i can't remember exactly what sheppard said to larrin that made her consider the alliance.



sally :)

ps - does anyone know how tall all the atlantis guys are (davids, joe, ronan)?

prion
October 27th, 2007, 08:03 PM
Edit: I missed Carter here. Just a few words from her about finding Sheppard and sending the team out to find him. I know that AT was only contracted for 14 episodes, so some she couldn't be around for, but I did miss her here. :)

You know, it wasn't until I was editing out ads after so I could burn the episode to disk and i was going past the credits that I realized Carter hadn't been in the episode.

the fifth man
October 27th, 2007, 08:08 PM
You know, it wasn't until I was editing out ads after so I could burn the episode to disk and i was going past the credits that I realized Carter hadn't been in the episode.

I kind of didn't really notice her absence either. It would have been nice to see her for at least a few moments, but, the episode was good enough without her too.

prion
October 27th, 2007, 08:10 PM
speaking of this scene, does anyone have the transcript for it? i can't remember exactly what sheppard said to larrin that made her consider the alliance.

ps - does anyone know how tall all the atlantis guys are (davids, joe, ronan)?

there's gotta be a transcript out there, or will be one shortly.

Joe Flanigan is 6' even. There was discussion on a list about this and he confirmed his height at a convention. Don't trust IMDB for actor stats like that. Jason is 6'4" (I believe), and David is 5'10" (from his official ACTRA stats)

Mattathias2.0
October 27th, 2007, 08:16 PM
I don't mind her absense because it wouldn't have really moved the plot.

Mack_1
October 27th, 2007, 09:10 PM
Wraith Boy

Considering this involved a rescue mission for the head of security etc, then Carter should have been heavily involved in this ep. I know she was probably filming the SG-1 stuff at the time. However they could & should have brought her in later on to do a couple of brief scenes. At the very least the leader of the expedition should have made the decision to go approve sending out all those PJ's & people on a rescue mission.


That’s what I’m saying, either just a mention of the name, so we’ll know someone is in charge still, iben if they don’t show the person



Shep should be busted a new one for letting her near enough to grab the stunner from behind his back. Never mind letting a Wraith go after forcing him to give her back her life. That Wraith could have got into the Dart then sent a message to a nearby Cruiser or Hive. Shep had no idea when his people would be able to get to him. So letting the Wraith go could have been a huge mistake if he was able to contact his people & they had a ship close by that would get to them before Sheps team had a chance to mount the rescue (Shep obviously knew there was no 304 & they'd have to use PJ's travelling at sublight. Realistically when such a mission report was filed, he would be immediately replaced as head of security for his incompetence & failings.

Agree, what kind of leaderships is this, He is a Military man for crying out loud! Please don’t diminished him like that, now the Wraith for what I see are becoming more soft than seasons before??. why? and the whole you can leave and live another day?? Put him in a room!, disable such room and DON”T let him go! your life still at risk.
But wait let him go, then go all stupid and let the chick kick you butt with the gun you all ready had and was supposedly, in a safe place umm.



JoshuaSloane
No Sam this episode. I know she's not in every episode this season, but it seemed a bit conspicuous that the expedition's #2 leader went missing and the highest-up people we ever saw working on the problem were McKay and Lorne. I know SG-1 members tended to temporarily disappear a lot, did any of those go by entirely without a presence from General Hammond/O'Neill/Landry?

Nope, that I remember, at least the mention of the name was brought up, so you new they were aware of the situation



Originally Posted by Linzi
Edit: I missed Carter here. Just a few words from her about finding Sheppard and sending the team out to find him. I know that AT was only contracted for 14 episodes, so some she couldn't be around for, but I did miss her here.

as a sam fan, that was nice to hear.
sally

Me too, she is the only reason I'm watching SGA this season:sam:



Mattathias2.0
I don't mind her absense because it wouldn't have really moved the plot.
Yeah, otherwise she would be blame for something going wrong in the most boring episodes so far, sorry I watched it again and still the same 6/10, didn't change my mind.