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Mitchell82
November 2nd, 2007, 11:38 AM
3 OUT OF 10

Basically I found TRW to be better than this episode. The feeling was off, the story was poorly executed---in the sense that it was totally not what I expected and hoped for since they opened the door to a lot in that episode and didn't complete a darn thing.
Oh no! The world must be ending because this is the first time we disagree! I liked "The Real World" but it in no way compares to this. I don't feel the pacing was off or a poor story. I felt that it was a great story that opens the door to a possible alliance.


Now, I'm very pro S4, and those who've seen my posts in the past, I was worried about this ep and I wasn't looking forward to it, but that changed when I heard about the fact that these guys were after John's DNA--which made me think..."Hell yeah, DRAMA!!" Unfortunately, that wasn't the case and I will elaborate here, but I also wanted to say that Jill Wagner did not sell Larin to me. Yes, I actually bought Noreena faster than I ever bought Larin who was one of the weakest leaders I have seen. ~sigh~
Really? I felt that the twist about them needing his DNA for the ATA gene was a good twist. Also I really bought Larin as a good leader who instills fear in her subordinates and her enemies. Jill Wagner did a great job IMO.






First off, I felt I was forced and pushing to watch this ep. I was expecting this feeling more so for Reunion, but I adored Reunion and that goes doubly for Adrift and Doppelganger, since I still have yet to see Lifeline (I was traveling...in Canada---but some may understand the life of a hosteller---ugh never again (only the Hilton from now on!!). In any event, I felt forced, the story was progressing slow mainly because the story was uninteresting and really all Shep.
I didn't feel the story progressed slowly at all. I felt the fact we had to keep guessing from scene to scene and having events revealed to us slowly added to the drama, and the fact that it revolved around Shep is one reason I liked it since I like Shep.


I really liked the start of the season because it balanced "primary character ep" with "team ep" Reunion being a perfect example. You are fully aware this is a Ronon ep, but you also had a good balance of everyone else, this was also seen in Doppelganger (uber sexy ep). I love and respect that the writers were able to show their skill in balancing character participation. This episode---backpedaled to sad eps in S3 and S2 where John (Weir and Rodney) was primary character and really---I adore John, but come on!!!
I see your point but I liked that John was all on his own and loved the parts the team was together looking for John especially the scene in the jumper.


This didn't show any real strength of John's besides the fact that he may be able to read Ancient...woohoo! :mckay: We also know that his pyro-technic abilities have been kept well oiled. ~sigh~ All in all weak.
Not sure I follow you here. It showed his strength in a dangerous situation and his creativity in defusing such a situation.


:sheppard: ~sigh~ Where to begin...I just wasn't seeing this ep up to par. I felt I had great emotion from depth to funnies in eps like Adrift and amazing decision making skills in eps like DG and especially Reunion. This episode, didn't give me anything. I may be the only one who was thinking this and I thought it was the stupidiest thing I ever saw. So John lets wraith (who uses an amazingly great conditioner) go, then turns his back (wraith barely turns the corner) and macks with leading lady sorta-villain. I have no problems with Shep and his kirkettes, cause well...he's Shep. But I was a bit irked, how could he trust the wraith to leave, how does he not know that said Wraith doesn't have other cats waiting in the wings. That wraith doesn't have any alterior motives---it was too easy and it was ridiculous on top of being easy. :S
I'm sure the Wraith had alterior motives but there were no more Wraith on the ship. He had to show Larin she could trust him because in a sense he did believe her.


Larin (Jill Wagner)-->:vala: ~sigh~ She did not sell me Larin in any way shape or form. Maybe her execution was weak, I have no clue, but I found her fairly unresponsive and was utterly disappointed by this. She didn't even give me the Teyla stoicism---which I can identify as her unhappy and suspicious...she was just blah. Although, I like the kiss with her and Shep (although I felt nothing). For example, John and Chaya--uber hotness and nice energy---loving it...John and girl from Tower (her name escapes me) I liked it and it was a good reaction from John. Although Teer freaked me out a bit, I loved her kiss with John. John and Larin? Maybe he's bored of kissing so many alien ladies---but I got nothing, although I found it an "acceptable" kiss. Only I could put it.
Well for me she did sell Larin to meshe didn't seem weak at all.


The rest of the guys---worthless. McKay was worthless, Teyla/Ronon/Lorne---unnecessary, so I have nothing to say in regards to their input. I felt the team companionship I was given in the last couple of eps was nullified to the point of death in this episode. I'm not paticular on the glorification of John without his team. I realize this is great for some of the "fanatics" of John, but just as I had problems with Common Ground (which I found to be crap for the John character) I find this to be just as empty. ~sigh~
Mckay wasn't worthless. He figured out where John was sending the transmission from. As to the rest yeah they had little input but it wasn't neccesary. They were looking for John so the episode mainly focused on him but they were far from worthless I loved the jumper scene.




Dunno, it was just sad...I was upset there wasn't more about the gene thing. Maybe I was banking on the direction of that storyline more, so I was setting myself up for failure. That really upset me the most, I was hoping to see some great torture drama from that, nothing. It was kind of thrown there, deemed to fail, and it was the end; yes, I'm sure they'll revisit, but whatever...

:wraith: I was glad I got some wraith, they redeemed the ep from a 2 to a 3. :S They had great hair and I liked their leathers.

Overall, I compare the execution to being similar to TRW and I actually ganered more entertainment from TRW (I never thought I'd say that...)...for those who know my utter dislike for that ep, it's saying quite a bit. I rarely dislike an ep, but this and TRW are have created a category. For some wondering, I actually really liked The Tower (and I might be the only one, but I loved Epiphany!!)---that says a lot considering how much bad mouthing that ep received.

~sigh~ :(


3 OUT OF 10

Hmm hell must be freezing we never disagree like this. I completly disagree this was a great shep centered ep that introduced a new ally.

Pegasus_SGA
November 3rd, 2007, 04:59 PM
Before I start. ;) I feel I must say that FAII I agree with you on one thing! So take it while you can, as a woman I feel i'm entitled to change my mind at any time. So this one is for you. I heard the scientist call Larrin 'He' when menitoning the airlock. :P


You and your whip! :eek:

I loved the whump too. No surprises there.

I just watched Travelers again, by myself, quietly, and took into consideration all the perspectives and pov's I've read here, on this thread, which is a really good thing to do, I believe, and is one of the benefits from reading and being active on this forum.

You know what? Quite simply, I was entertained by it. Is it going to be one of the episodes that tugs on my heart strings? Nope. Is it going to be one where I think, 'Wow! Who'd have thought that could happen?' Nope. Is it going to be an episode where I think, 'My God, how did they come up with that idea?' Again, that would be a negative. But - I simply really enjoyed the episode.

For 43 minutes, I was taken from my everyday world, and transported somewhere else for a really fun/action episode, that, oh yeah, featured my favourite character prominently, and was one where he got knocked around a bit by a feisty and attractive woman.

Will Travelers be an episode where I watch and ponder the meaning of the Universe? No. But, as a scifi action episode, with amusing moments, the introduction of a new ally who could actually help in the battle against the enemies the good guys face in the Pegasus Galaxy, some cool spaceship shots, and some great character moments, then, it succeeded very well for me.

I thought about it hard, and I still say the story was perhaps a little bit thin, but the episode was successful for me, simply because I liked it and found myself engrossed in it. It was just fun to watch, and for me that's what the show is all about - being entertained. Could it have been better? Undoubtedly, in my opinion, but I feel that way about every episode I watch to a certain extent, because I'd have tweaked it to suit what I wanted to exactly see. I enjoy many different sorts of episodes of SGA, and this one, for me, isn't any less of an episode because it doesn't have a deep plot, or isn't horrifying or hysterically funny. One thing I like is a variety of episodes. With Adrift, Lifeline and DG we had what I thought were serious episodes, full of emotion. With Reunion we had perhaps a slower moving character based episode. Travelers, for me, was fun and action and just pure entertainment, and I won't belittle it because of that. I take it for what it is, and enjoy it :)

Beautifully put!! I agree, sometimes it's just really nice to kick back and watch an ep without analyzing things to death and just watch it for what it was; a really good story. Each time I watch this I notice new things, be it the lighting (loved the lighting when they were in hyperspace) and I enjoyed the flirtatious interaction. So sue me, I like being a girly girl now and again. For a long time i've wanted to see them use, or for someone to try and get hold of Shep's ata gene and attempt to replicate it. Now, I would have liked to have seen more of this, but what I enjoyed was Shep using his ata gene more than we've seen in any other ep. He accessed the Aurora class ship, he used the chair, and the internal communications system twice, the second time was even after he'd been zatted. How often have we seen that in any ep so far? So given that he's able to get into the ship's internal sensors, I wonder if he can also do that in Atlantis, and what else he can do with it... it opens a lot of doors and possibilites by just that one glimpse. I would like to see maybe the city turn on those that have the ancient gene in some form. That could be interesting, or those with ATA gene get a sense of something if the city isn't well... what can I say, i'm a whumper. :lol:


I just watched Travelers....

Phew... It's a surprise I stayed awake during the episode... Boring!

There was no Carter, so that was a plus, but that's just about it.

I giggled uncontrollably with Teyla's eye-roll at the end of the episode and that's about all the smiling/laughing I did.

This was 40 minutes of Sheppard, and to some like Pegasus_SGA I assume that's fun to watch. Whumpage and all. But for me personally, no thank you.

This was a waste of 42 minutes of film (or time or whatever).

Larrin wasn't all that bad. I don't mind seeing her again, as long as they can control the Kirk-iness cause dude.... annoying beyond belief.

Again, have yet to see an episode I truly like.
DG is a possible like, and Lifeline was a great Elizabeth episode.

I fear i'm getting a reputation of just enjoying the pretteh. ;) They know me so well! :P Who cares about plots, storyline, arcs, stand alones, character developments, friendships, cultures, technologies. Not me, I just want Shep whumped and shirtless, so I can let my brain go to mush. :D


Very well put! Its nice to see other people are enjoying the episode for the what it was Fun!



Thanks for sharing your thoughts nicely written.

Welcome to the discussion thread, Listy. Have you posted your thoughts yet? Don't be afraid we don't bite. :D


Ah, but I wasn't posting common sense (if I were, I would not have voided the contract; it's only common sense not to), therefore it doesn't void our contract, which enabled us to spread said common sense only, and does not regular are general posting privileges.



Blast! I forgot. Well played, well played.


You forget to get dibs on S6. :P I dibs that! :D

Falcon Horus
November 3rd, 2007, 05:03 PM
I fear i'm getting a reputation of just enjoying the pretteh. ;) They know me so well! :P Who cares about plots, storyline, arcs, stand alones, character developments, friendships, cultures, technologies. Not me, I just want Shep whumped and shirtless, so I can let my brain go to mush. :D

You and Linzi... Not sure yet, who's the worst (in a good way)... the most far gone... :p

Pegasus_SGA
November 3rd, 2007, 07:37 PM
You and Linzi... Not sure yet, who's the worst (in a good way)... the most far gone... :p
Oh that would definately be Linzi! She corrupts everyone. Thank goodness i'm still Lil Miss Innocent and i've managed thus far to stave off her corrupting me completely. But my resolve is definately weakening... http://bestsmileys.com/angles/2.gif

vaberella
November 4th, 2007, 12:32 AM
Oh no! The world must be ending because this is the first time we disagree! I liked "The Real World" but it in no way compares to this. I don't feel the pacing was off or a poor story. I felt that it was a great story that opens the door to a possible alliance.
Hey!! :D Long time no see...

I know what your saying, but the execution didn't make her a viable ally for me. Say for example we take Common Ground, another Shep centered ep I wasn't too fond of...but what I will say is that I loved John's Wraith brother and I could see a feasible alliance coming from that relationship taking into account the situation and the occurences in the ep.

Larrin is a weak leader and as such even if there is an alliance she wasn't presented well to me. She seemed a bit horny, she also had a plan for her people (which is to redeem her and give her purpose) and yet she seemed so unaffected around her people or when speaking about them. The actress did not give me the brevity of her determination to save her people. She did not display what I needed. Not to mention I was greatly interested in the direction they would go when they took John's DNA and it was for naught, and totally pointless. This is an important aspect to a story and it was just easily shot down and ignored by a flippant comment to it's failure.



Really? I felt that the twist about them needing his DNA for the ATA gene was a good twist. Also I really bought Larin as a good leader who instills fear in her subordinates and her enemies. Jill Wagner did a great job IMO.
I loved that twist, it would have been great if they expanded on it. Did they? No, they left alone to hang out for a bit and ended with a small "it didn't work, did it" and then we have the Atlantean ship. But the introduction of the experiment could have been an interesting episode in itself and it would have set a precedent.

Plus when we talked about the ep before the ep aired and people mentioned this, I thought it would be a focal point since it's such a major topic to address. Sure, I could have been banking on too much speculation...so that needs to be taken into consideration. But again as it being such a serious topic to address I was sure that it would be a central theme, but it wasn't. They did nothing with it, check my answer above, same goes for JW. She gave me nothing on screen to feel connected to the character. It's unfortunate since I was hoping on a lot from her. Not too much, but just enough and it was for naught. ~sigh~



I didn't feel the story progressed slowly at all. I felt the fact we had to keep guessing from scene to scene and having events revealed to us slowly added to the drama, and the fact that it revolved around Shep is one reason I liked it since I like Shep.
My closest guessing was "when will this end". It was slow paced for me, normally when I watch an SGA ep and then I look at the time it's normally 35 or 40 minutes into an ep because I get so engaged, I got into 10 minutes and was trying to figure out why it was taking so long to move. I had no suspense and I was a bit irked by John's laissez faire attitude in the face of a beautiful woman. Again, no issues with kirkettes, but he always gets laissez faire when he's around a beautiful woman---excluding Teer, but for example Noreena. He's in a serious situation but is very cavalier about it, and I wanted some emotion. This is why I felt the writers ended up backpedaling in this ep and giving me old boring Shep, not cool Shep (which admittedly I was given in Commond Ground, no matter how much I felt it wasn't enough).



I see your point but I liked that John was all on his own and loved the parts the team was together looking for John especially the scene in the jumper.
Still not very team oriented. The team was in the backburner and all I had was John. I'm not saying he can't be alone in a few scenes, but when it takes up about 35 minutes and the team gets 5 in total, I have a problem. Especially him alone wasn't all that entertaining.



Not sure I follow you here. It showed his strength in a dangerous situation and his creativity in defusing such a situation.
No, I saw more of that in Doppelganger or Reunion or Adrift. I wasn't geting that much in this episode. He was buying time, managed to escape his people and did few things was his norm. I'm looking for new things if we go by creativity. He didn't do much new things in this ep...except really read ancient. In Adrift we definitely had creativity and decisiveness, ditto in Doppelganger and Reunion, a man thrown into a world not in his element. Even thoug this situation was not his normal element he acted as though it was and didn't really change much from Shep in S2...hence I wasn't impressed while all the other previous eps had Sheppard clearly growing and developing on screen. This ep had him backpedaling.



I'm sure the Wraith had alterior motives but there were no more Wraith on the ship. He had to show Larin she could trust him because in a sense he did believe her.
Kissing her doesn't mean you trust her?! Or it wasn't in a manual I ever read. But meh, one never knows in regards to Shep. As for my point on the wraith...it was just not working to not even wait until the Wraith fully is gone and checking to make sure he's gone and your pact with the enemy came to fruition; you turn your back and start macking with the girl. Mack with her after, like Bond does, or way early, not when the enemy is still right in the midst and wasn't even gone for 15 seconds. It just seemed unlikely from the John I've seen on screen before Travelers.



Well for me she did sell Larin to meshe didn't seem weak at all.
Drone to me.



Mckay wasn't worthless. He figured out where John was sending the transmission from. As to the rest yeah they had little input but it wasn't neccesary. They were looking for John so the episode mainly focused on him but they were far from worthless I loved the jumper scene.
When I say McKay was worthless, I'm talking about how the team was basically relegated to background noise. I like team eps and the jumper scene if you count the minutes of the team lookign for John was around 5 or so minutes in total; even if that. While John and boredom was about 35 minutes...now compare that to Ronon/Team/Ronon's peeps in Reunion. You'll see something totally different.



Hmm hell must be freezing we never disagree like this. I completly disagree this was a great shep centered ep that introduced a new ally.
Possibly, but we might agree later on. I was not very happy with this ep, and I always had a level of reservation about it. It just actually did disappointment when I was hoping it wouldn't. I think the new allies would be good, but this story doesn't make me want to see them... unlike the CG Wraith who'll be coming soon.

Linzi
November 4th, 2007, 12:57 AM
You and Linzi... Not sure yet, who's the worst (in a good way)... the most far gone... :p
Oh, Peg's the worst. No doubt about it. She's obsessed with getting Shep shirtless, and for the life of me I have no idea why she wants to see that. I think she's so far gone now, that there's not a lot of hope for her!

Oh that would definately be Linzi! She corrupts everyone. Thank goodness i'm still Lil Miss Innocent and i've managed thus far to stave off her corrupting me completely. But my resolve is definately weakening... http://bestsmileys.com/angles/2.gif

Yeah, right. I think you need to post that lovely piccie of Pinocchio again...;) Besides, everyone knows I'm the innocent one here.

Bottom line for me, I accept some people's criticisms about Travelers, and no, I wouldn't have quite written a Sheppard centric episode like that, to be honest but, I really enjoyed Travelers. Sure, primarily because I enjoyed seeing my favourite character so much on screen, just as those who like McKay a lot like GUP or those who like Weir loved TRW. But, it wasn't just that. I did enjoy Larrin and the idea that we have a new ally who's technologically advanced. For me it was a fun action episode. If I were to state how I think it might have been improved, I'd have made Larrin harsher and more ruthless. I'd have had the team rescuing Sheppard and slightly more team in the episode. I'd also have liked to have seen more of the Travelers themselves, and more of their ships. But, as I said previously, I can always find fault if I look hard enough. I just generally try not to, and accept what's on screen to a certain extent, because I accept I'm not always going to get exactly what I want, and also because primarily I want to be entertained and enjoy the show. :)

It's easy to pick things to pieces, but for me, do that too much and I don't enjoy the show I'm watching so much anymore, which sort of is cutting off my nose to spite my face.

Willow'sCat
November 4th, 2007, 01:42 AM
The problem I have with Shep isn't that women hit on him, its that he is pushing 40 years old, is a high ranking Air Force officer, in fact, commands the military on Atlantis, yet we have never seen this guy able to say "NO" when a girl comes on to him. THAT is what bothers me. Is offered. He takes it. Its the behavior of an 18 year old, not a 40 year old professional.Yeah and we all know if it was Sam doing this... :cool: Sorry but Sheppard is just too old for this to be humorous or just a guy thing. He seriously needs to grow up and more importantly be setting a good example for those under his command. :cool:

Pegasus_SGA
November 4th, 2007, 01:48 AM
Oh, Peg's the worst. No doubt about it. She's obsessed with getting Shep shirtless, and for the life of me I have no idea why she wants to see that. I think she's so far gone now, that there's not a lot of hope for her!


Yeah, right. I think you need to post that lovely piccie of Pinocchio again...;) Besides, everyone knows I'm the innocent one here.

me obsessed? I told you, Linz, I do this not for myself, but the fandom! :P I'm very selfless like that you see.

*snort* Linz, I fear it's your nose that's going... but just for you. :D


http://www.cartonionline.com/gif/CARTOON/disney/pinocchio/piocchio03.gif
See even Pinocchio is saying, 'What's a girl to do!' :D



Bottom line for me, I accept some people's criticisms about Travelers, and no, I wouldn't have quite written a Sheppard centric episode like that, to be honest but, I really enjoyed Travelers. Sure, primarily because I enjoyed seeing my favourite character so much on screen, just as those who like McKay a lot like GUP or those who like Weir loved TRW. But, it wasn't just that. I did enjoy Larrin and the idea that we have a new ally who's technologically advanced. For me it was a fun action episode. If I were to state how I think it might have been improved, I'd have made Larrin harsher and more ruthless. I'd have had the team rescuing Sheppard and slightly more team in the episode. I'd also have liked to have seen more of the Travelers themselves, and more of their ships. But, as I said previously, I can always find fault if I look hard enough. I just generally try not to, and accept what's on screen to a certain extent, because I accept I'm not always going to get exactly what I want, and also because primarily I want to be entertained and enjoy the show. :)

It's easy to pick things to pieces, but for me, do that too much and I don't enjoy the show I'm watching so much anymore, which sort of is cutting off my nose to spite my face.

Agreed those that don't llike Shep *perishes the thought* probably won't like this ep, fine. Each to their own, but there's seeing what's on screen and perceiving things according to how you think. So if you see Shep as a flirt, then that's what you're going to see. Some people just can't help pre-judging eps based on their own perceptions. At least people should be honest about it. I just enjoy the ep for what it is, and yes, maybe my rose coloured shep glasses have tainted my view of the ep, as I loved this one, but likewise wouldn't TRW, GUP, Sateda etc have done the same? I just want to kick back like you and be entertained by what's on the screen, and I am and have been constantly in S4. Something for everyone. :D


Yeah and we all know if it was Sam doing this... :cool: Sorry but Sheppard is just too old for this to be humorous or just a guy thing. He seriously needs to grow up and more importantly be setting a good example for those under his command. :cool:

Too old? Oh my goodness, so theres a cut off regarding how long you can flirt for!! Quick willow, tell me, I might be running out of time!

How is he not setting a good example? Smart, resourceful, thinking on his feet, getting a tentative alliance, getting out alive... is that what you meant? ;) then yes, he's leading by example :D

vaberella
November 4th, 2007, 03:21 AM
<snip>Bottom line for me, I accept some people's criticisms about Travelers, and no, I wouldn't have quite written a Sheppard centric episode like that, to be honest but, I really enjoyed Travelers. Sure, primarily because I enjoyed seeing my favourite character so much on screen, just as those who like McKay a lot like GUP or those who like Weir loved TRW. But, it wasn't just that. <snip>

It's easy to pick things to pieces, but for me, do that too much and I don't enjoy the show I'm watching so much anymore, which sort of is cutting off my nose to spite my face.

Wholly incorrect, I adore all things McKay, and I'm not a McVab (McKay and myself) shipper for nothing. :) But I bloody disliked GUP and still I have never sat through the entire ep (since I fall asleep early on, I think I'm allergic to the ep). Not as bad as TRW or Travelers, but I didn't like it as a singularly Rodney ep. I'm sure there are McKay fans who loved it, but I couldn't stand it and I found it utterly boring, it's not a hated ep like TRW or Travelers but it's definitely on my worst SGA eps ever.

Tao of McKay, although not that great, I preferred far more and I loved Mckay and Mrs. Miller. So the idea that some centric eps are loved by fans of the characters isn't fully correct.

Falcon Horus
November 4th, 2007, 04:34 AM
Oh that would definately be Linzi! She corrupts everyone. Thank goodness i'm still Lil Miss Innocent and i've managed thus far to stave off her corrupting me completely. But my resolve is definately weakening... http://bestsmileys.com/angles/2.gif

You and Linzi both are "innocent" ... those halo's are already halfway down your heads. :p

I hope I can be that "innocent" over my favorite girls some time in the near future again.

But noooo.... one's missing, one's dead and the other is ignored pretty much the entire time.

Linzi
November 4th, 2007, 06:18 AM
Wholly incorrect, I adore all things McKay, and I'm not a McVab (McKay and myself) shipper for nothing. :) But I bloody disliked GUP and still I have never sat through the entire ep (since I fall asleep early on, I think I'm allergic to the ep). Not as bad as TRW or Travelers, but I didn't like it as a singularly Rodney ep. I'm sure there are McKay fans who loved it, but I couldn't stand it and I found it utterly boring, it's not a hated ep like TRW or Travelers but it's definitely on my worst SGA eps ever.

Tao of McKay, although not that great, I preferred far more and I loved Mckay and Mrs. Miller. So the idea that some centric eps are loved by fans of the characters isn't fully correct.
You're a McVab shipper? I had no idea there was such a thing.

I should have said, of course, that some of the McKay fans I know adore GUP, even though some admit they find the story not to their tastes or perhaps weak. They like it because it shows lots of their favourite character, who's is in almost constantly... Of course not every McKay fan loves every McKay centric episode. I didn't mean to generalise, but did, obviously :o

I maintain though, that a large proportion of fans of a character generally enjoy an episode in which he/she has a centric role, just because he or she features in the episode prominently and they enjoy their favourite actor's performance.

vaberella
November 4th, 2007, 07:14 AM
You're a McVab shipper? I had no idea there was such a thing.
Surprisingly it turned into a joke and several of my SGA mates, though it was funny that I was such a McKay defender. Although on another forum, I was all supportive of the "Die, McKay, Die!!" thread. Meh...I'm a conundrum. I even have a sig...~sigh~


I should have said, of course, that some of the McKay fans I know adore GUP, even though some admit they find the story not to their tastes or perhaps weak. They like it because it shows lots of their favourite character, who's is in almost constantly... Of course not every McKay fan loves every McKay centric episode. I didn't mean to generalise, but did, obviously :o
No problem, I'm not a fan of character oriented stories. I do like the Teyla ones, mainly because they are NEVER just Teyla eps, this is speaking of Suspicion (you see John/Weir/and her relationship with the entire Ex) this is also seen in The Gift, and eps like The Siege (not even really Teyla ep just featured)---again it's just NEVER a focused Teyla and no one else. Going to S3, Submersion (which I thought was crap) is another example. In a way it's sad since she is from the PG and we saw Ronon quite on his own in Sateda, even though the team played a significant role. But when it's JUST Sheppard, McKay, and at times Weir---it's just crap on so many levels. I don't find it entertaining and I think the whole character favorite thing undermines the show because of it.

It causes this weird turn out, especially in some of these ep threads. Like no matter what, for some people, even if I wasn't a fan of the ep, but because it had my fave actor I'm totally supportive. Me, I hold no such allegiance. I find it crap, whether I love you or hate you, it's crap. I don't hold favoritism and I rarely find redeeming qualities.


I maintain though, that a large proportion of fans of a character generally enjoy an episode in which he/she has a centric role, just because he or she features in the episode prominently and they enjoy their favourite actor's performance.

~sigh~ This may be true. Thank [insert deity], I never follow the "large proportion" of anything. Down with the zombie mentality!! :S

Linzi
November 4th, 2007, 09:12 AM
Surprisingly it turned into a joke and several of my SGA mates, though it was funny that I was such a McKay defender. Although on another forum, I was all supportive of the "Die, McKay, Die!!" thread. Meh...I'm a conundrum. I even have a sig...~sigh~

:lol:





No problem, I'm not a fan of character oriented stories. I do like the Teyla ones, mainly because they are NEVER just Teyla eps, this is speaking of Suspicion (you see John/Weir/and her relationship with the entire Ex) this is also seen in The Gift, and eps like The Siege (not even really Teyla ep just featured)---again it's just NEVER a focused Teyla and no one else. Going to S3, Submersion (which I thought was crap) is another example. In a way it's sad since she is from the PG and we saw Ronon quite on his own in Sateda, even though the team played a significant role. But when it's JUST Sheppard, McKay, and at times Weir---it's just crap on so many levels. I don't find it entertaining and I think the whole character favorite thing undermines the show because of it.

I actually prefer team oriented episodes, and am not a particular fan of episodes that centre almost entirely on one character. I also can see what you mean about Teyla not having had an episode centred on her as much, but in all fairness, until now neither had Sheppard and he's the leading man! I don't count CG as being much of a Sheppard episode because it heavily featured the team and Weir. So, in that respect I feel Sheppard deserved it. However, I wouldn't disagree that if you don't like the character featured, you're not going to enjoy the episode unless it's a cracking story, and though I enjoyed Travelers, I'm the first to admit, a cracking story it wasn't! I did enjoy it though. I just sat there and was entertained.


It causes this weird turn out, especially in some of these ep threads. Like no matter what, for some people, even if I wasn't a fan of the ep, but because it had my fave actor I'm totally supportive. Me, I hold no such allegiance. I find it crap, whether I love you or hate you, it's crap. I don't hold favoritism and I rarely find redeeming qualities.

Well, I don't think if I thought an episode was crap I'd say it wasn't just because my favourite character was in it. If I don't enjoy something, I say so, though I do find myself enjoying episodes where my fav is featured heavily, but that's not always the case. I do like most episodes of SGA though. :lol: Some I'm passionate about, a few I dislike, but most I just like.

I love Sateda and TOR, and my favourite character isn't heavily featured in either episode. I didn't particularly enjoy either GUP or TRW, but the reason isn't because of who the featured characters were, I just had issues with the stories. I didn't have an issue with the story of Travelers or performances or anything like that. I thought the story wasn't one of the strongest I've seen, which is a shame, but, as I said I did enjoy it overall.




~sigh~ This may be true. Thank [insert deity], I never follow the "large proportion" of anything. Down with the zombie mentality!! :S

I don't think I follow the large proportion either really. I like what I like and vice versa, and just say that usually. In season 4, so far, I've liked everything in a general sense. I have nitpicked the odd bit of some stories, but I honestly don't like to look for too many plot holes etc. because it ruins my enjoyment of the show. I guess I'm a positive sort of person, though I do have my moments of doubt and negativity.

garhkal
November 4th, 2007, 10:34 AM
I would consider epiphiny, and possibily the tower being a shep centered episode.

ciannwn
November 6th, 2007, 12:25 PM
:wraith: I was glad I got some wraith, they redeemed the ep from a 2 to a 3. :S They had great hair and I liked their leathers.

One of them survived. That makes it a 4 out of 10 for me. :)

SierraGolf-OneNiner
November 6th, 2007, 12:27 PM
I have to say that this episode as well as Doppelganger were the worst Atlantis episodes ever. Since Irresistible I thought TPTB couldn't make anything worse than that. Well I was wrong. What were they thinking. I get it, they need some new allies and so on. But this was just awfull.

Granted. The season started with a bang. Adrift and Lifeline were Stargate at its finest. Reunion was still ok. Sam going off-world and fighting the wraith for the first time saved that episode. But Doppelganger? Lets talk about rehashing old ideas and especially one from a bad SG-1 episode.

After Travelers I lost every respect I ever had for John. First of all I thought Larrin isn't hot at all. Second of all: Does John only thinks with his ****? I really don't know why I sat through this episode. Maybe deep down I hoped it would get better. Boy, was I wrong. Tabula Rasa wasn't much better either. Where the heck is the promised story arc? I want to see the fight between the Replicators and the Wraith for once. Three bad episodes in a row! If they keep this up I will quitt this show!

ashman2
November 6th, 2007, 01:22 PM
I have to say that this episode as well as Doppelganger were the worst Atlantis episodes ever. Since Irresistible I thought TPTB couldn't make anything worse than that.

I'll gladly agree with you that Irresistible was horrific, although I thought Irresponsible was even worse but I thought Doppelganger was actually really good. Travelers could have been done much better but I definitely would not rate Travelers as being one of Atlantis' worst.


Granted. The season started with a bang. Adrift and Lifeline were Stargate at its finest.

I definitely agree with that.


First of all I thought Larrin isn't hot at all.

Were were looking at the same woman? She was smoking hot.

Falcon Horus
November 6th, 2007, 01:26 PM
Were were looking at the same woman? She was smoking hot.

That part is subjective from person to person. I didn't find her particularly 'hot' either.

SierraGolf-OneNiner
November 6th, 2007, 01:29 PM
Were were looking at the same woman? She was smoking hot.

Yes we were. For me a woman has to have more than good looks to be hot. She has to be smart, interesting and a sense of humor. I found nothing of those in her. As I just admitted. She has good looks but wasn't my type. Lexa Doig, Morena Baccarin, etc. Those are hot!!!!!!!!! :)

garhkal
November 6th, 2007, 02:54 PM
How can you say moena Baccarin has a sense of humor? I have yet to see her portrayal of adria showing any signs of humor.

Jumper_One
November 6th, 2007, 02:56 PM
How can you say moena Baccarin has a sense of humor? I have yet to see her portrayal of adria showing any signs of humor.

maybe SierraGolf was talking about Firefly

SierraGolf-OneNiner
November 6th, 2007, 02:58 PM
How can you say moena Baccarin has a sense of humor? I have yet to see her portrayal of adria showing any signs of humor.

I do watch other TV Shows and Movies than just Stargate! Like Firefly and Andromeda for example.:)

BTW I didn't mean Adria directly.

Promethius30
November 7th, 2007, 06:04 AM
I like this not the best one this but a good action pack one 8/10

Pegasus_SGA
November 7th, 2007, 11:58 AM
I have to say that this episode as well as Doppelganger were the worst Atlantis episodes ever. Since Irresistible I thought TPTB couldn't make anything worse than that. Well I was wrong. What were they thinking. I get it, they need some new allies and so on. But this was just awfull.

What did you hate about it? you thought nothing could be worse than Irresistable? Try Irresposible. :lol:


Granted. The season started with a bang. Adrift and Lifeline were Stargate at its finest. Reunion was still ok. Sam going off-world and fighting the wraith for the first time saved that episode. But Doppelganger? Lets talk about rehashing old ideas and especially one from a bad SG-1 episode.

Goodie someone wants to talk. :D In what way was it a rehash from SG1?


After Travelers I lost every respect I ever had for John. First of all I thought Larrin isn't hot at all. Second of all: Does John only thinks with his ****? I really don't know why I sat through this episode. Maybe deep down I hoped it would get better. Boy, was I wrong. Tabula Rasa wasn't much better either. Where the heck is the promised story arc? I want to see the fight between the Replicators and the Wraith for once. Three bad episodes in a row! If they keep this up I will quitt this show!

I think it does depend on what your 'type' is if you think someone's not hot, you may just go... meh. :lol: For those that don't like Sheppard probably wouldn't like this ep. That's the way it goes sometimes. But TR was crap??? :S Would you post your thoughts about it there? Or not if you can't be bothered. :lol:

What's your type of ep, if you don't mind me asking?


I'll gladly agree with you that Irresistible was horrific, although I thought Irresponsible was even worse but I thought Doppelganger was actually really good. Travelers could have been done much better but I definitely would not rate Travelers as being one of Atlantis' worst.

I definitely agree with that.

Were were looking at the same woman? She was smoking hot.

Irresistable I can cope with. Irresponsible.... not so much. That ep makes me want to growl. Constantly. :lol: The only saving grace for me in that ep was LL suggesting he set himself on fire... you know i would have given him the matches myself. :lol:

No I lie, I think there's two scenes i'll watch again in that ep, that being one of them.

Falcon Horus
November 7th, 2007, 12:27 PM
I think it does depend on what your 'type' is if you think someone's not hot, you may just go... meh. :lol: For those that don't like Sheppard probably wouldn't like this ep.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, as they say. My eye is usually drawn to someone else than Sheppard.

Alipeeps
November 7th, 2007, 02:44 PM
It's all in the eye of the beholder, as they say. My eye is usually drawn to someone else than Sheppard.

Wait.. there's people other than Sheppard? :eek:

*gazes adoringly* :lol: :D

Matt G
November 7th, 2007, 02:44 PM
OK...missed the opening min or so.

1. "I'll do what you want, move the ship forward...you should have first asked me to engage the inertial dampeners" F-ING CLASS MATE!

2. Travellers look promising as a player of some form or another, arrogant morons in the way they dealt with Sheppard but then again, there are enough arrogant morons in 'this' reality let alone the Gate reality.

3. No one else was really of much use here which I suppose is an Achilles heel.

4. Then again Sheppard pretty much rocked here so it's not like he needed any help on this occassion.

I'll call it best ep of the season so far. At least takes Adrift down to the wire.

Pegasus_SGA
November 7th, 2007, 02:48 PM
It's all in the eye of the beholder, as they say. My eye is usually drawn to someone else than Sheppard.

Very true hon.


Wait.. there's people other than Sheppard? :eek:

*gazes adoringly* :lol: :D
So I hear! Although I could be mistaken, I don't take any notice of anyone else once Shep is on the screen ;)


OK...missed the opening min or so.

1. "I'll do what you want, move the ship forward...you should have first asked me to engage the inertial dampeners" F-ING CLASS MATE!

2. Travellers look promising as a player of some form or another, arrogant morons in the way they dealt with Sheppard but then again, there are enough arrogant morons in 'this' reality let alone the Gate reality.

3. No one else was really of much use here which I suppose is an Achilles heel.

4. Then again Sheppard pretty much rocked here so it's not like he needed any help on this occassion.

I'll call it best ep of the season so far. At least takes Adrift down to the wire.

I loved that bit. :D I quite liked the fact that Sheppard was irreverant in this, we've not really seen him play that side very much, and I have to say I did giggle quite a few times at him ticking them off. :lol: With Kolya he was very stoic, scoffed at him and his men. Here he was very cheeky :lol: And I loved that he was pissing them off without doing anything. :D

Falcon Horus
November 7th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Wait.. there's people other than Sheppard? :eek:

*gazes adoringly* :lol: :D

Mmm...sometimes he's not alone. Just sometimes. :p

Alipeeps
November 7th, 2007, 03:15 PM
Mmm...sometimes he's not alone. Just sometimes. :p

Oh you mean those other people talking and doing stuff? Sorry.. I can't really tear my attention away from the hawtness that is Sheppard long enough to pay any attention to them :D

I mean, if I paid attention to that kind of stuff, I'd have to make an effort to follow a plot or something... and that would distract me from the hawtness! :eek: :D

Falcon Horus
November 7th, 2007, 03:18 PM
Oh you mean those other people talking and doing stuff? Sorry.. I can't really tear my attention away from the hawtness that is Sheppard long enough to pay any attention to them :D

I mean, if I paid attention to that kind of stuff, I'd have to make an effort to follow a plot or something... and that would distract me from the hawtness! :eek: :D

I see your dilemma :lol:

Linzi
November 7th, 2007, 10:18 PM
Very true hon.


So I hear! Although I could be mistaken, I don't take any notice of anyone else once Shep is on the screen ;)



I loved that bit. :D I quite liked the fact that Sheppard was irreverant in this, we've not really seen him play that side very much, and I have to say I did giggle quite a few times at him ticking them off. :lol: With Kolya he was very stoic, scoffed at him and his men. Here he was very cheeky :lol: And I loved that he was pissing them off without doing anything. :D
That was one of the things I liked about Sheppard in Travelers, that he was a pain in the backside to Larrin et al. He was cheeky and irreverant, and I like that side of Sheppard. I also liked that the ATA gene was used here. Sheppard obviously has the mega gene and knows how to use it. I would like some more exploration of this though. Why is his gene so strong, and why can he operate Ancient Tech so easily?

ALI - I think you need a good hosing down! :lol:

Naonak
November 8th, 2007, 12:20 AM
Why did it take me two viewings for the "Reed Richards" line to connect in my brain with the conversation in First Strike? :o :p

A pretty entertaining episode - probably the weakest of the season so far (including Tabula Rasa), but that's not a bad thing considering how great the other episodes have been.

It was good seeing John being so "clever, creative" in dealing with Larrin and the other Travellers - the inertial dampeners trick - and for the most part acting very capably - fixing the control chair, commandeering the ship... :sheppard:

7/10

Linzi
November 8th, 2007, 01:43 AM
Why did it take me two viewings for the "Reed Richards" line to connect in my brain with the conversation in First Strike? :o :p

A pretty entertaining episode - probably the weakest of the season so far (including Tabula Rasa), but that's not a bad thing considering how great the other episodes have been.

It was good seeing John being so "clever, creative" in dealing with Larrin and the other Travellers - the inertial dampeners trick - and for the most part acting very capably - fixing the control chair, commandeering the ship... :sheppard:

7/10
I got the Reed Richards joke immediately, because I'd just watched Rise of the Silver Surfer the day before! Talk about good timing. It's lines like that that really make me love the show, and it's great continuity too. Even my hubby chuckled at that, and Larrin's line about shooting too early. Suffice it to say a few jokes were flung from me to my hubby! ;)

I wouldn't disagree that Travelers didn't have the strongest storyline ever, which is a shame, but I've watched it twice on Sky now, and I still really love it. It's pure entertainment to me. I still like TR and DG better though :)

Falcon Horus
November 8th, 2007, 04:35 AM
Why is his gene so strong, and why can he operate Ancient Tech so easily?

Because the lead man has to be more special than any of the other who have the gene.

Alipeeps
November 8th, 2007, 04:42 AM
Because the lead man has to be more special than any of the other who have the gene.

Because he's so hawt even machines love him! :lol:

Disclaimer: Sorry... it seems my silly mood has carried over into a brand new day! I blame the stress myself... :D

Keller02
November 8th, 2007, 04:47 AM
Finally got to watch Travelers last night,i really enjoyed this episode.:)
i really liked the part were Larrin hits sheppard several times for lieing and he then tells the truth and she still hits him.
Also when shep uses the chair to kill the wraith.
the only down side in my opinion is that you didn't get to see the other members of sheppards team that much but overall a real good episode.

SierraGolf-OneNiner
November 8th, 2007, 04:48 AM
What did you hate about it? you thought nothing could be worse than Irresistable? Try Irresposible. :lol:

Goodie someone wants to talk. :D In what way was it a rehash from SG1?

I think it does depend on what your 'type' is if you think someone's not hot, you may just go... meh. For those that don't like Sheppard probably wouldn't like this ep. That's the way it goes sometimes. But TR was crap??? :S Would you post your thoughts about it there? Or not if you can't be bothered. :lol:

What's your type of ep,:lol: if you don't mind me asking?

What did I hate about it? Well, the acting for one. {Mod SNip} It got frustrating watching that. Further more it seemed to me that the writers have forgotten how to write a decent episode. They wrote Sheppard as if he was a teenager who was controlled by his hormones rather than a Lt. Colonel in the military. I know he has always been a bit more on the funny site but this looked rather ridiculous (sp?). Oh, and Sam is supposed to be in command of the expedition. Where was she? Or the plothole about Larrins weapon running out of power. That never happened to Ronon. There are more plotholes but I am lazy right now.

Doppelganger reminded me of a first season SG-1 episode. I think it was Cold Lazarus where O'Neil got cloned by a crystal. Well Sheppards clone was evil and in his friends dreams and O'Neils was benign, innocent and interacted with them in their reallity. There are still similarities. SG-1 episode Gamekeeper anyone? It seems to me that the writers are looking at old SG-1 episode scripts and picking them apart to arange another SGA episode. How original.:(

I found Tabula Rasa boring and unimaginative. But I may write more on that in the appropriate episode thread. Again I am lazy.

The types of episodes I like are imaginative, intelligent stories that further the story and the character arcs and have you guessing what happens next. I always knew what happened next the last three episodes. Well, could be a sign that I watch too much TV. :lol:

I just hate standalone episodes. They don't further the story nor are they of any consequences for the characters. Which means one wasted hour in your life that you could have spent with your girlfriend for example. :D

<runs to the ruins of a fallen city to take cover from all the staff blasts that are flying towards me> :)

Falcon Horus
November 8th, 2007, 04:57 AM
Because he's so hawt even machines love him! :lol:

All in the eye of the beholder... Look we've come full circle! :p


Which means one wasted hour in your life that you could have spent with your girlfriend for example. :D

Providing of course, one has a boy/girlfriend to begin with. :p

Alipeeps
November 8th, 2007, 05:09 AM
What did I hate about it? Well, the acting for one. [snip] Further more it seemed to me that the writers have forgotten how to write a decent episode. They wrote Sheppard as if he was a teenager who was controlled by his hormones rather than a Lt. Colonel in the military. I know he has always been a bit more on the funny site but this looked rather ridiculous (sp?). Oh, and Sam is supposed to be in command of the expedition. Where was she? Or the plothole about Larrins weapon running out of power. That never happened to Ronon. There are more plotholes but I am lazy right now.

Doppelganger reminded me of a first season SG-1 episode. I think it was Cold Lazarus where O'Neil got cloned by a crystal. Well Sheppards clone was evil and in his friends dreams and O'Neils was benign, innocent and interacted with them in their reallity. There are still similarities. SG-1 episode Gamekeeper anyone? It seems to me that the writers are looking at old SG-1 episode scripts and picking them apart to arange another SGA episode. How original.:(

I personally fail to see how people can realistically claim that Doppelganger is a rehash of Cold Lazarus based solely on the one element that the episodes have in common - a lifeform that lives as energy in a crystal. Nothing else about the plots is the same. However, that's a conversation that is more appropriate to the Doppelganger episode discussion thread.

As far as Travelers goes... we have never seen Ronon's gun run out of charge... however, we *have* seen him reload it, making it clear that it does need to be reloaded from time to time, and, to be fair, we've never seen him shoot it enough to melt through a solid metal wall.

I guess if you have an issue with the kiss then you probably will enjoy this episode less. I personally had no problems with the kiss. Is that one element sufficient to label the entire episode awful though? As for Carter, I do agree with you that it seemed odd not to have her in this episode... I guess one can assume that somewhere off-screen she was aware of the situation and approved the rescue missions etc but it did seem odd to have the expedition leader not visibly involved in that. I'm guessing that comes down to the nature of Amanda's contract and the limited number of episodes she will be in. I don't consider it a plothole but I do feel that it jarred a bit in the episode.

ciannwn
November 8th, 2007, 05:32 AM
I guess if you have an issue with the kiss then you probably will enjoy this episode less. I personally had no problems with the kiss. Is that one element sufficient to label the entire episode awful though?

What irritated me about this kiss is that Sheppard fell for a seduction ploy which enabled Larrin to get his gun. He had a ton of evidence that she was treacherous and untrustworthy but it's as if he was thinking "I saved her life so she's now going to be a grateful, co-operative woman who's overwhelmed by my charm and good looks".

Alipeeps
November 8th, 2007, 05:57 AM
What irritated me about this kiss is that Sheppard fell for a seduction ploy which enabled Larrin to get his gun. He had a ton of evidence that she was treacherous and untrustworthy but it's as if he was thinking "I saved her life so she's now going to be a grateful, co-operative woman who's overwhelmed by my charm and good looks".

I do see your point and I'm not saying it was the smartest thing in the world to fall for but I think he was also thinking that he had saved her life 3 times and they had begun working together to survive etc... and that she had just been through something terrifying and painful and incredible that few people would understand but that he did.. and that maybe they had found some common ground.

ciannwn
November 8th, 2007, 06:25 AM
I think he was also thinking that he had saved her life 3 times and they had begun working together to survive etc... and that she had just been through something terrifying and painful and incredible that few people would understand but that he did.. and that maybe they had found some common ground.

That's fair enough up to a point. Would he expect everyone whose life he saved to suddenly want to kiss him, though? :D

Alipeeps
November 8th, 2007, 06:39 AM
That's fair enough up to a point. Would he expect everyone whose life he saved to suddenly want to kiss him, though? :D

Ah but he didn't expect her to kiss him, did he? It wasn't like he was "Hey, hot chick! I saved your life!" and leaning in with his lips pursed, waiting for a smackeroonie.. :lol:

She started making friendly and he kinda regarded her with a little suspicion and then she moved in for a kiss and he went with the flow. And got a stunner blast to the midriff for his troubles! Poor boy. :lol:

Ruffles
November 8th, 2007, 08:49 AM
What irritated me about this kiss is that Sheppard fell for a seduction ploy which enabled Larrin to get his gun. He had a ton of evidence that she was treacherous and untrustworthy but it's as if he was thinking "I saved her life so she's now going to be a grateful, co-operative woman who's overwhelmed by my charm and good looks".

Just for fun, let's pretend for a minute that Sheppard doesn't kiss Larrin. Back up to the scene....

He forces the Wraith to return her life then allows the Wraith to leave (since the blaster has run out of charge). He even waits a minute, making sure the Wraith is gone (checks the life sign detector). Sheppard kneels next to Larrin and they chat about the awesome yet weird experience of having life returned. He helps her to stand and her knees buckle (whether from being truly weak or a trick). He catches her to prevent her from falling - something anyone, including me, would do from reflex.

Where are we? In the corridor with Sheppard and Larrin in close proximity. In fact, he's holding onto her arms and she is doing the same to steady herself. She reaches for the stunner tucked in his belt and stuns him with it.

We have focused so hard on the fact that Sheppard let the woman kiss him that I think we have overlooked the fact she would have still gotten that stunner from him simply because he was helping her. To not help her would not be Sheppard. Trade Larrin for Nevik or Silas and you still have the same result. Sheppard would have offered a hand up and reached out to steady a weakened individual putting himself in close enough proximity to have the stunner taken.

Alipeeps
November 8th, 2007, 08:57 AM
That's a darn good point Ruffles... I hadn't looked at it that way but I do think you're right there.

Of course, she could also have chosen (as e.g. Silas might have done in the same situation) whilst Sheppard was making sure she could stand up unaided, to bop him one on the nose/in the gut/in the *ahem* you-know-where and then take the gun. Given the choice.. I know I'd prefer the kiss as method of distraction! :lol:

bluealien
November 8th, 2007, 09:15 AM
That part is subjective from person to person. I didn't find her particularly 'hot' either.

I agree, and liking/disliking an episode is also subjective from person to person. Doppelganger and Travelers are my favourite episodes this season. I enjoyed the others mostly.. my least favourite being Lifeline. I enjoyed Travelers because it entertained me and kept my attention. It wasn't just because it was a Sheppard centric episode. I can be just as critical of my favourite character as I can be with my least favourite.

Travelers was a light hearted ep and I thought JF did a great job. Sheppard was witty, resourceful and intelligent and I'm not even going to go into the crap about the 3 second kiss. I love this easy going, charming side of Shep who manages to turn a potential enemy into a future ally. Great stuff, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't love to see a more serious Sheppard centric episode... but unfortunately the writers seem to be dishing all those type of eps out to McKay.. which is a huge shame. I also find it quite interesting that McKay can be having a relationship with a co-worker and hanging around holding her hand while the expedition is in grave danger... yet is not accused of putting the galaxy in danger or thinking with his nether regions.

ciannwn
November 8th, 2007, 09:15 AM
Trade Larrin for Nevik or Silas and you still have the same result. Sheppard would have offered a hand up and reached out to steady a weakened individual putting himself in close enough proximity to have the stunner taken.

Agreed. So what was the point of including that kiss in the story? As far as I'm concerned it just made Sheppard look stupid because he couldn't resist the thought of an attractive female with a liking for low cut leather tops planting her lips on his.

Why did Larrin kiss him anyway seeing as she could have got the gun without doing that? Are we supposed to believe that yet another woman finds Sheppard irresistibly attractive so she couldn't pass up the opportunity?

For myself, I think the first Wraith Larrin met was a lot hotter than Sheppard. I can understand why she didn't want to try the kiss tactic on him, though. :) :)

Pegasus_SGA
November 8th, 2007, 09:37 AM
That was one of the things I liked about Sheppard in Travelers, that he was a pain in the backside to Larrin et al. He was cheeky and irreverant, and I like that side of Sheppard. I also liked that the ATA gene was used here. Sheppard obviously has the mega gene and knows how to use it. I would like some more exploration of this though. Why is his gene so strong, and why can he operate Ancient Tech so easily?

ALI - I think you need a good hosing down!

I agree with you, Linz! That's got to be a first hasn't it? ;) We don't get to see that side of his character. Normally we see him ticked off, in full soldier mood, or just Shep. I was trying to think of an ep where we have seen this side of him, and I honestly can't think of one. So that's something else we've learned. Shep can be a right pain in the ass. :P I think he honestly new he wasn't in that much trouble. I didn't feel the jeapordy in this as much as I did in CG. In CG the tone was set very different and his attitude was serious. In this it did feel very lighthearted and cheeky. Which for me is very entertaining. Was it the best episode ever in terms of story, then i'd have to say no. Did I enjoy it and was entertained by it? You betcha. It was a good solid Shep story and we learned as much about him in this as we did with Ronon in Sateda, or Rodney in GUP, or Lizzie in TRW. SO for me the whump was fantastic... I mean the ep, the ep was fantastic. Storywise involving the Travelers? Well, I certainly am looking forward to learning lots more.

Ali! I don't know what you're on, but can I have some please. :P


Why did it take me two viewings for the "Reed Richards" line to connect in my brain with the conversation in First Strike?

A pretty entertaining episode - probably the weakest of the season so far (including Tabula Rasa), but that's not a bad thing considering how great the other episodes have been.

It was good seeing John being so "clever, creative" in dealing with Larrin and the other Travellers - the inertial dampeners trick - and for the most part acting very capably - fixing the control chair, commandeering the ship...

7/10

I didn't get it the first time either. :o I think you hit the nail on the head there. How often does Shep use his smarts in that way? Not often, because he tends to leave that side to Rodney, while he goes into soldier mode. So for me, we actually got to see him using the gene quite a bit, fixing the chairs, sending out a distress call using old style morse code on an advanced ship? That must have taken him a while to recaliberate the communications device to do that.


I got the Reed Richards joke immediately, because I'd just watched Rise of the Silver Surfer the day before! Talk about good timing. It's lines like that that really make me love the show, and it's great continuity too. Even my hubby chuckled at that, and Larrin's line about shooting too early. Suffice it to say a few jokes were flung from me to my hubby!

I wouldn't disagree that Travelers didn't have the strongest storyline ever, which is a shame, but I've watched it twice on Sky now, and I still really love it. It's pure entertainment to me. I still like TR and DG better though

I enjoyed Travellers, but I have to agree those two have the edge for me two. :o I think certainly from my point of view is we're seeing continuity more and more in season 4, and I love that they're referring back to stuff, emotions, actions and using them to advance the story. :D

And the shooting too early. *giggles* yeah well, I live in the gutter, so for me I did find it funny. :D


What did I hate about it? Well, the acting for one. {Mod SNip} It got frustrating watching that. Further more it seemed to me that the writers have forgotten how to write a decent episode. They wrote Sheppard as if he was a teenager who was controlled by his hormones rather than a Lt. Colonel in the military. I know he has always been a bit more on the funny site but this looked rather ridiculous (sp?). Oh, and Sam is supposed to be in command of the expedition. Where was she? Or the plothole about Larrins weapon running out of power. That never happened to Ronon. There are more plotholes but I am lazy right now.

This was very much a light hearted type of ep I felt. I didn't feel the intensity in this as much as some of the eps However, I do disagree that wasn't a decent episode. If you felt Shep was a teenager maybe you should go visit FAII's thread. :P I'm sure he'd love to hear your thoughts. :D

Thing is Amanda is not contracted for all the eps, and this one wasn't one she was contracted for. Did I miss a leader type figure? Yeah sure you betcha. it did feel strange not having her there to co-ordinate things, and I missed that.

As for the plot holes? I doubt that any weapon has a finite energy supply, so I can live with that.



Doppelganger reminded me of a first season SG-1 episode. I think it was Cold Lazarus where O'Neil got cloned by a crystal. Well Sheppards clone was evil and in his friends dreams and O'Neils was benign, innocent and interacted with them in their reallity. There are still similarities. SG-1 episode Gamekeeper anyone? It seems to me that the writers are looking at old SG-1 episode scripts and picking them apart to arange another SGA episode. How original.


For me although I understand your point about it being similar to CL, the whole episode apart from the crystal was different (and Shep wasn't cloned). RCC did say it was a different take on CL, and so not like the gamekeeper. Trust me i've watched that ep once and DG was nothing like that. :lol: Sorry you didn't enjoy it though.


I found Tabula Rasa boring and unimaginative. But I may write more on that in the appropriate episode thread. Again I am lazy.

I look forward to hearing them and would like to know what type of eps that would suit you.


The types of episodes I like are imaginative, intelligent stories that further the story and the character arcs and have you guessing what happens next. I always knew what happened next the last three episodes. Well, could be a sign that I watch too much TV. :lol:

I just hate standalone episodes. They don't further the story nor are they of any consequences for the characters. Which means one wasted hour in your life that you could have spent with your girlfriend for example.

<runs to the ruins of a fallen city to take cover from all the staff blasts that are flying towards me>

I agree, I love those types of story you mentioned, and i've felt that the S4 eps have been like that. Obviously you don't. :lol: But one day you'll come round to my way of thinking. ;) :P :D I don't feel as if Travelers was a stand alone, more a 'set up' for things to come. I would have liked to have seen more of the Travelers as i've said before, but darn those time restraints. :lol: I do think the Travelers story has moved things along, likewise TR. There's more foreshadowing, setting up for the arc's and such rather than hitting you all in one go, it's gradual. If you decide to watch it again, you can see these little things... or maybe you did? :lol:



What irritated me about this kiss is that Sheppard fell for a seduction ploy which enabled Larrin to get his gun. He had a ton of evidence that she was treacherous and untrustworthy but it's as if he was thinking "I saved her life so she's now going to be a grateful, co-operative woman who's overwhelmed by my charm and good looks".

Ruffles did such a good job of explaining it, i'm not even going to open my mouth! :eek: A first I think. :P


Just for fun, let's pretend for a minute that Sheppard doesn't kiss Larrin. Back up to the scene....

He forces the Wraith to return her life then allows the Wraith to leave (since the blaster has run out of charge). He even waits a minute, making sure the Wraith is gone (checks the life sign detector). Sheppard kneels next to Larrin and they chat about the awesome yet weird experience of having life returned. He helps her to stand and her knees buckle (whether from being truly weak or a trick). He catches her to prevent her from falling - something anyone, including me, would do from reflex.

Where are we? In the corridor with Sheppard and Larrin in close proximity. In fact, he's holding onto her arms and she is doing the same to steady herself. She reaches for the stunner tucked in his belt and stuns him with it.

We have focused so hard on the fact that Sheppard let the woman kiss him that I think we have overlooked the fact she would have still gotten that stunner from him simply because he was helping her. To not help her would not be Sheppard. Trade Larrin for Nevik or Silas and you still have the same result. Sheppard would have offered a hand up and reached out to steady a weakened individual putting himself in close enough proximity to have the stunner taken.

Couldn't have said it better myself hon. I think that's the crux of things, people are so fixated on that couple of seconds kiss, that why it happened is not being looked at objectively. She had just been fed on, he understood as he'd experienced it before. He was probably all to aware of the effects of it, and steadied her. She was being naughty and took his weapon. If she hadn't have pretended to falter then Shep would have kept his weapon, but you're right in what you say it's a reflex thing. You see someone falling, or faltering and you hold on to them. I'd have been surprised if he had just let her fall to the ground to be honest and it wouldn't have been in character at all.

ciannwn
November 8th, 2007, 09:49 AM
I think that's the crux of things, people are so fixated on that couple of seconds kiss, that why it happened is not being looked at objectively.

Maybe a lot of people think it was an unnecessary addition because of the following -


She had just been fed on, he understood as he'd experienced it before. He was probably all to aware of the effects of it, and steadied her. She was being naughty and took his weapon. If she hadn't have pretended to falter then Shep would have kept his weapon, but you're right in what you say it's a reflex thing. You see someone falling, or faltering and you hold on to them. I'd have been surprised if he had just let her fall to the ground to be honest and it wouldn't have been in character at all.

Steadying someone you think is weak and in need of help is one thing. Why did Larrin kiss him, though? What was the point of including that kiss in the scene when she could have got the gun anyway without kissing him?


Of course, she could also have chosen (as e.g. Silas might have done in the same situation) whilst Sheppard was making sure she could stand up unaided, to bop him one on the nose/in the gut/in the *ahem* you-know-where and then take the gun.

This woman was supposed to be a tough, ruthless leader. I'd have liked it a lot better if she had done one of the above to get the gun instead.

Falcon Horus
November 8th, 2007, 09:53 AM
Why did Larrin kiss him, though? What was the point of including that kiss in the scene when she could have got the gun anyway without kissing him?

Because TPTB are a bunch of schoolboys who want to see the hero get the girl. :S

Pegasus_SGA
November 8th, 2007, 09:57 AM
Maybe a lot of people think it was an unnecessary addition because of the following -

Steadying someone you think is weak and in need of help is one thing. Why did Larrin kiss him, though? What was the point of including that kiss in the scene when she could have got the gun anyway without kissing him?

This woman was supposed to be a tough, ruthless leader. I'd have liked it a lot better if she'd done one of the above to get the gun instead.

Larrin kissed him because she was using her feminine wiles to get hold of Shep's tackle. Women are sneaky like that. Given Shep's behaviour in letting her men go after she shut off the shield emitions from the control room, she gleaned a snippet of his personality, and took advantage of that. Likewise when she got into trouble he helped her at a direct cost to his own life. Because that's who he is, he won't sit idly by and let someone get killed, not if he can help it. At that second point they were working together and building up trust. She took advantage of him and he let her.

Do I think the kiss was necessary? No, to be honest, but it was a bit of something for viewers, apparantly some people like smooches. :lol:

See even though Larrin was supposed to be some 'ruthless' leader. I just didn't feel that from her. Sure, she may have talked the talk to Sheppard, but in reality, talking to her men, and worrying if they were dead and explaining to Sheppard about what she's had to achieve for her people sort of suggests that she's not as tough as she wants people to believe. I never got that from her that she was a nasty peace of work. I think she was just desperate. And desperate people do desperate things. I would class Kolya as a ruthless leader, but not Larrin.

ciannwn
November 8th, 2007, 10:33 AM
Do I think the kiss was necessary? No, to be honest, but it was a bit of something for viewers, apparantly some people like smooches.

I got the impression it was included for precisely that reason. As a contrast, I thought Mara's seduction tactics in The Tower had a logical reason. It came across to me as her real purpose was to mate with a man who had a strong Ancient gene and it just happened to be Sheppard rather than someone else. (It's a shame the story didn't have her going for Rodney instead. I'd have loved to see his reaction. :D)


See even though Larrin was supposed to be some 'ruthless' leader. I just didn't feel that from her. Sure, she may have talked the talk to Sheppard,

So the last man who disappointed her mightn't have been blown out into space after all? It was just a contrived conversation in hope that it would make Sheppard feel scared?


I would class Kolya as a ruthless leader, but not Larrin.

I wouldn't put her in Kolya's class either. Is that because she really isn't supposed to be as ruthless as she makes out or because something went a bit wrong with character presentation?

Ruffles
November 8th, 2007, 10:42 AM
Agreed. So what was the point of including that kiss in the story? As far as I'm concerned it just made Sheppard look stupid because he couldn't resist the thought of an attractive female with a liking for low cut leather tops planting her lips on his.

Why did Larrin kiss him anyway seeing as she could have got the gun without doing that? Are we supposed to believe that yet another woman finds Sheppard irresistibly attractive so she couldn't pass up the opportunity?

For myself, I think the first Wraith Larrin met was a lot hotter than Sheppard. I can understand why she didn't want to try the kiss tactic on him, though. :) :)

If I have to explain why a prime time TV show would have 2 beautiful people kissing, you are too far gone for my help. ;)

Don't misunderstand - I'm not saying allowing her to kiss him wasn't a mistake in judgment. But the guy is human and he makes mistakes. The flirtatious give and take between the two had been going on for some time, and I thought it led very naturally to a kiss between them.

For Sheppard, I would say he met a woman that was his match for the first time in a long time. While he may have appreciated the beauty of a couple of women along the way, he hasn't had anyone that remotely challenged him. And while he was helping Larrin, he did not initiate the kiss. But I think he found her to be his equal and took the moment for what he thought it was - a romantic interest of a beautiful woman whose life he'd just saved. He didn't take advantage of her, but he didn't discourage her either.

Why did Larrin kiss him? Are you kidding? She was definitely taking advantage. She already had the upper hand - could have easily taken the stunner from him - but she too had met her match and didn't miss the chance to kiss the handsome hero. But she also had already admitted that she didn't like to take chances - the very reason they kidnapped him to begin with. They couldn't risk him saying no. She saw an opportunity and took it - and kissed him to hide her real intentions. She intended to stun him regardless.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - what's with "yet another woman"? We've seen him kiss exactly 3 other women in 3 years. It's not like alien women are fainting at his feet every week. He certainly hasn't had any around when he's needed to escape capture (none in Coup d'Etat or Common Ground). The pretty girl in Reunion barely noticed he existed. The one in Brotherhood had eyes for McKay. The one in Poisoning the Well had eyes for Carson. The one in Tao had eyes for Ronon.

We tend to hear a label (usually given as a joke) and let the term stick without much basis. McKay labels Sheppard "Kirk" in an ep (which I found hilarious at the time) and suddenly that's who he is regardless of evidence to the contrary. He doesn't sleep with every alien girl he meets - he doesn't even kiss them. Ronon has been labeled "Caveman" and "Neanderthal" and yet time and again, he has shown his intelligence. Teyla is more than just a calming influence on the group and McKay is incredibly brave. None of them are perfect, but none can be kept in the box we typically like to put them in.

Alipeeps
November 8th, 2007, 11:11 AM
This woman was supposed to be a tough, ruthless leader. I'd have liked it a lot better if she had done one of the above to get the gun instead.

We've also seen her, right from the start, use her "feminine charms" to her advantage... the way she has spoken to Sheppard right from the beginning was slightly flirtatious. It's just another way she makes sure to get what she wants. And why throw a punch, which could get blocked or not hit hard enough, when you can distract with a kiss and achieve the same result?


So the last man who disappointed her mightn't have been blown out into space after all? It was just a contrived conversation in hope that it would make Sheppard feel scared?


Sure. Why not? It's good cop, bad cop. :D


We tend to hear a label (usually given as a joke) and let the term stick without much basis. McKay labels Sheppard "Kirk" in an ep (which I found hilarious at the time) and suddenly that's who he is regardless of evidence to the contrary. He doesn't sleep with every alien girl he meets - he doesn't even kiss them. Ronon has been labeled "Caveman" and "Neanderthal" and yet time and again, he has shown his intelligence. Teyla is more than just a calming influence on the group and McKay is incredibly brave. None of them are perfect, but none can be kept in the box we typically like to put them in.

DAmn I wish I could green you. That's beautifully, reasonably and eloquently put.

Pegasus_SGA
November 8th, 2007, 11:28 AM
I got the impression it was included for precisely that reason. As a contrast, I thought Mara's seduction tactics in The Tower had a logical reason. It came across to me as her real purpose was to mate with a man who had a strong Ancient gene and it just happened to be Sheppard rather than someone else. (It's a shame the story didn't have her going for Rodney instead. I'd have loved to see his reaction. :D)

Strangely enough I got that impression to :P I agree, Mara made it very clear what she wanted, but Larrin wanted very much the same thing, his ATA gene. Both women used their femininity to get what they wanted. Thing is a lot of men (sorry boys) get what they want when the women turn up the charm. It happens, women are very devious creatures ya know. :D

:lol: I bet Rodney was thinking the same thing. :P



So the last man who disappointed her mightn't have been blown out into space after all? It was just a contrived conversation in hope that it would make Sheppard feel scared?

I wouldn't put her in Kolya's class either. Is that because she really isn't supposed to be as ruthless as she makes out or because something went a bit wrong with character presentation?

Yep! Who knows, maybe she did, maybe she didn't, but Larrin needed Shep (and no not in that way) ;) She wanted to keep him around because the blood they took from him didn't give them what they were wanting. So to blow him out into space was more of an empty threat. But when you're dealing with an unknown adversary, you never know how they're going to react. So it's best to play it safe until you can get out of that situation.


If I have to explain why a prime time TV show would have 2 beautiful people kissing, you are too far gone for my help. ;)

:lol:


Don't misunderstand - I'm not saying allowing her to kiss him wasn't a mistake in judgment. But the guy is human and he makes mistakes. The flirtatious give and take between the two had been going on for some time, and I thought it led very naturally to a kiss between them.

I agree, it's like someone ticking you off so much that they get on your nerves, but you're attracted to them and you don't know why. :lol:

*looks around for support and sees non forthcoming*



For Sheppard, I would say he met a woman that was his match for the first time in a long time. While he may have appreciated the beauty of a couple of women along the way, he hasn't had anyone that remotely challenged him. And while he was helping Larrin, he did not initiate the kiss. But I think he found her to be his equal and took the moment for what he thought it was - a romantic interest of a beautiful woman whose life he'd just saved. He didn't take advantage of her, but he didn't discourage her either.


You're so good with words, Ruffles, that's exactly it. She was like his equal in many ways, but coming from a different perspective.



Why did Larrin kiss him? Are you kidding? She was definitely taking advantage. She already had the upper hand - could have easily taken the stunner from him - but she too had met her match and didn't miss the chance to kiss the handsome hero. But she also had already admitted that she didn't like to take chances - the very reason they kidnapped him to begin with. They couldn't risk him saying no. She saw an opportunity and took it - and kissed him to hide her real intentions. She intended to stun him regardless.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - what's with "yet another woman"? We've seen him kiss exactly 3 other women in 3 years. It's not like alien women are fainting at his feet every week. He certainly hasn't had any around when he's needed to escape capture (none in Coup d'Etat or Common Ground). The pretty girl in Reunion barely noticed he existed. The one in Brotherhood had eyes for McKay. The one in Poisoning the Well had eyes for Carson. The one in Tao had eyes for Ronon.

We tend to hear a label (usually given as a joke) and let the term stick without much basis. McKay labels Sheppard "Kirk" in an ep (which I found hilarious at the time) and suddenly that's who he is regardless of evidence to the contrary. He doesn't sleep with every alien girl he meets - he doesn't even kiss them. Ronon has been labeled "Caveman" and "Neanderthal" and yet time and again, he has shown his intelligence. Teyla is more than just a calming influence on the group and McKay is incredibly brave. None of them are perfect, but none can be kept in the box we typically like to put them in.

Well said. :D You've silenced me into submission! :eek: I think people forget that the term 'kirk' was actually first referenced to because Shep got all possessive about the puddle jumper, not a girl. :lol:

ciannwn
November 8th, 2007, 12:41 PM
If I have to explain why a prime time TV show would have 2 beautiful people kissing, you are too far gone for my help. ;)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I failed to see two beautiful people there. My idea of two beautiful Stargate universe people kissing would be Steve and Vala. :) :) (Now there's a challenge for fanfic writers. How would they get together? :D)


For Sheppard, I would say he met a woman that was his match for the first time in a long time.

It would have made such a refreshing change if his match had been a plain looking woman in her early sixties who didn't have a single low cut leather top in her wardrobe. Of course, we can't have a character like that on a prime time TV show - female leaders of their people tend to be young, beautiful (to some viewers) and wearing clothes that show off their physical charms. :)


but she too had met her match and didn't miss the chance to kiss the handsome hero.

And in doing so she reminded viewers that Sheppard is meant to be the handsome hero just in case we've all forgotten. :)


She saw an opportunity and took it - and kissed him to hide her real intentions. She intended to stun him regardless.

Which is why she had to be a young woman with a liking for low cut leather tops. Sheppard wouldn't have allowed a plain woman in her early sixties to fool him in that manner. :)


We tend to hear a label (usually given as a joke) and let the term stick without much basis. McKay labels Sheppard "Kirk" in an ep (which I found hilarious at the time) and suddenly that's who he is regardless of evidence to the contrary. He doesn't sleep with every alien girl he meets - he doesn't even kiss them.

Maybe I wouldn't have minded the Larrin kiss so much if it hadn't been in an episode where we get the following exchange at the start -

McKAY: ... Y'know, since I've been in Pegasus, I have set up, like, what, half a dozen research stations on various planets, and I don't remember you ever volunteering to run a re-supply mission to any of them.

SHEPPARD: I'm a busy man, Rodney. Just happened to have a little free time.

McKAY: And Doctor Mackenzie just happens to be studying a primitive tribe that lives in a tropical paradise and has, how did he put it, "little or no social inhibitions."

SHEPPARD (smiling appreciatively): Well, they were very friendly.

Er..yes, quite. We don't actually see him sleeping with or kissing a lot of alien girls in this tropical paradise but it's suggested that he had a very good time. (Was the apple meant to be a bit of subtle symbolism here? :) )

I'm now going to include the opinions of a friend who doesn't post in these forums. She told me that the most interesting part of the episode for her was the Wraith and she ended up wondering about the various patterns of male facial hair that we've seen. Is it nothing more than personal taste in fashion or do the types of facial hair signify something in hive society such as rank or whatever? She added that it just went to show how enthralled she was by the Sheppard and Larrin encounter. :)

Ruffles
November 8th, 2007, 01:13 PM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I failed to see two beautiful people there. My idea of two beautiful Stargate universe people kissing would be Steve and Vala. :) :) (Now there's a challenge for fanfic writers. How would they get together? :D)

Yikes! Can't quite fathom that pairing (but my money's on Vala). True that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But I think you can objectively see how most people would find Sheppard and Larrin to be attractive people.


It would have made such a refreshing change if his match had been a plain looking woman in her early sixties who didn't have a single low cut leather top in her wardrobe. Of course, we can't have a character like that on a prime time TV show - female leaders of their people tend to be young, beautiful (to some viewers) and wearing clothes that show off their physical charms. :)

Ah, cian, a little cynical are we? ;) I would never argue that the TV version of leadership is anywhere near reality. I do think that Sheppard would have been attracted to a woman with Larrin's attributes of fierceness, loyalty (to her people), toughness, and determination if she had been less physically attractive. I really do. But he (and the key demographic) is a healthy hetero male who is visually oriented.


And in doing so she reminded viewers that Sheppard is meant to be the handsome hero just in case we've all forgotten. :)

I never need reminding. I admire her taste. What would have been fun would be if she'd captured Ronon.....


Which is why she had to be a young woman with a liking for low cut leather tops. Sheppard wouldn't have allowed a plain woman in her early sixties to fool him in that manner. :)

I disagree here. I think that anyone would have slipped past his defenses simply due to the circumstances - he had a Wraith restore her life, and she appeared weakened from it. I think he would have reached out to anyone - regardless of age or gender - when that person began to fall, thus losing the stunner. In fact, I think he would have been less suspicious of a plain woman in her early sixties and more likely to be trapped than he was.


Maybe I wouldn't have minded the Larrin kiss so much if it hadn't been in an episode where we get the following exchange at the start -

McKAY: ... Y'know, since I've been in Pegasus, I have set up, like, what, half a dozen research stations on various planets, and I don't remember you ever volunteering to run a re-supply mission to any of them.

SHEPPARD: I'm a busy man, Rodney. Just happened to have a little free time.

McKAY: And Doctor Mackenzie just happens to be studying a primitive tribe that lives in a tropical paradise and has, how did he put it, "little or no social inhibitions."

SHEPPARD (smiling appreciatively): Well, they were very friendly.

Er..yes, quite. We don't actually see him sleeping with or kissing a lot of alien girls in this tropical paradise but it's suggested that he had a very good time.

Or he was teasing Rodney. And Sheppard would never do that.


I'm now going to include the opinions of a friend who doesn't post in these forums. She told me that the most interesting part of the episode for her was the Wraith and she ended up wondering about the various patterns of male facial hair that we've seen. Is it nothing more than personal taste in fashion or do the types of facial hair signify something in hive society such as rank or whatever? She added that it just went to show how enthralled she was by the Sheppard and Larrin encounter. :)

I can definitely appreciate that not everyone would think of a Sheppard-centric episode as a favorite. I'm actually a rare one (from reading other posts) who really enjoys character eps (regardless of the character). I enjoyed Runner, Sateda, Grace Under Pressure, The Real World, Reunion, etc. I don't like every ep (those 2 that start with an I and The Tower come to mind), but I try to enjoy what I'm given.

I found Travelers to be like Linzi said - a light-hearted action ep. I'm not bothered by the fact that Shep kissed the girl or that the girl double-crossed him or that the Travelers kept the Lantian ship. I look forward to the next encounter between Shep and Larrin & between the Lantians and Travelers.

ciannwn
November 8th, 2007, 02:07 PM
Yikes! Can't quite fathom that pairing (but my money's on Vala).

I couldn't see it working, somehow. There's been no indication that male Wraith fancy human females unless it's for lunch. :)


But I think you can objectively see how most people would find Sheppard and Larrin to be attractive people.

There are plenty of posts in these forums about Sheppard being attractive and some about Larrin too. I have to concede that they do appeal to a lot of viewers.


What would have been fun would be if she'd captured Ronon.....

I think that would have been fun as well. It would have been difficult to come up with a reason for Ronon letting that last Wraith survive, though, and it might have been a necessary foundation for a later story.


I disagree here. I think that anyone would have slipped past his defenses simply due to the circumstances - he had a Wraith restore her life, and she appeared weakened from it. I think he would have reached out to anyone - regardless of age or gender - when that person began to fall, thus losing the stunner.

I don't think the kissing part would have worked, though, if it had been Silas, Nevik or a plain, 60 year old woman doing it. :)


Or he was teasing Rodney. And Sheppard would never do that.

Why would he volunteer to run a supply mission to that planet rather than one of the other research stations? This unseen Doctor Mackenzie is unlikely to falsify reports about the tribal society's few social inhibitions and it sounds as if Rodney must have mentioned certain aspects to other members of the expedition.

Maybe supply runs to this particular planet are highly popular assignments with everyone queuing up for a turn. "I can't fly a Puddle Jumper but I can help to unload the supplies at the other end." :)


I can definitely appreciate that not everyone would think of a Sheppard-centric episode as a favorite.

For me it depends on what Sheppard's doing in the episode concerned. 'The Eye' is one of my favourite SGA episodes and 'Common Ground' is another. What I did find interesting in 'Travellers' is Sheppard keeping his word to the last Wraith and letting him go. I find this is a far more intriguing side to Sheppard's character than him falling for Larrin's kissing tactic.

PG15
November 8th, 2007, 06:31 PM
I'm surprised that nobody thought of the possibility that Larrin just wanted to tongue wrestle with Shep. As blue said above (I think it was her), she already could've gotten the pistol, and Larrin did seem to be attracted to Shep (or at least thinks he's handsome and stuff).

So, why not? Why must everything be for tactical purposes? ;)

e1atlantis
November 8th, 2007, 07:26 PM
Those ships reminded me of Prometheus. Also, glad the ship survives, and, they can eventually repair it. I wonder though, why they did not offer to bring them to Atlantis?

Probably because the Travelers still cant be trusted to know where Atlantis is...
They've been switching guns at each other quite a few times, and i dont know if the humans on Atlantis are ready for yet another battle for their city.
But awesome episode.

Redhooks
November 8th, 2007, 08:11 PM
Having watched the episode again yesterday, I just thought about something that is good for a plot device, but again doesn't seem logical to me. Nevik said he had been trying for two months to get the systems online and we don't know how long before that the Travelers stumbled upon the ship, so why haven't they repaired the radiation leaks yet? For a supposedly advanced race, I would have thought they would have tried to repair the radiation leaks more than just putting up shield emitters?

If it was going to house a lot of people wouldn't one of the first priorities was to see IF they could fix it and do so as soon as possible. There was no way they could know when they would get the chance to capture someone who has the ATA gene, but they could have been fixing the ship up thinking eventually they would find a way to access the systems (ie make the Control Interface Adapter [CIA] work (that sounds funny! :D).) If the Wraith had not found the ship in 10,000 years, there was no reason not to have a skeleton crew trying to make repairs just because the Wraith MIGHT show up.
They could have rotated them off the ship if there was any high exposure danger and it seemed like the emitters were working fine. In fact they were working so fine that Sheppard and Larrin were running around a lot of it towards the end with little concern although they could have actually been in only a small portion of ship.

I know some people who really liked the episode probably think I am nit-picking at it too much, but I was disappointed about the result of the episode after a lot of build-up to it. I probably wouldn't be as picky if I had immediately liked it because of a good story and not just because Jill Wagner was in it. ;) :D

p-pos
November 8th, 2007, 09:05 PM
personally i have no problem with the kiss, but i can understand why others do it makes sheppard look stupid and inept. he is the head of military for atlantis and he can be easily swayed by the charms of his sexy female adversary.

sheppard could have gotten the kiss and keep the gun but it wouldn't have worked for the plot so imo the kiss should have been forsaken. the kiss was the climax to all the sexual banter that the two of them was throwing around and imo failed.

the episode was not the greatest but not the worst it worked for all those who worship sheppard and for those of us who don't we probably expected more out of it.

for those saying that we learned something new about sheppard what was that exactly because i didn't catch it. we already knew that sheppard is clever, witty, charming and smart we just saw him using all these attributes to his best because he was by himself and had no one else to rely on.

Linzi
November 8th, 2007, 10:23 PM
personally i have no problem with the kiss, but i can understand why others do it makes sheppard look stupid and inept. he is the head of military for atlantis and he can be easily swayed by the charms of his sexy female adversary.

sheppard could have gotten the kiss and keep the gun but it wouldn't have worked for the plot so imo the kiss should have been forsaken. the kiss was the climax to all the sexual banter that the two of them was throwing around and imo failed.

the episode was not the greatest but not the worst it worked for all those who worship sheppard and for those of us who don't we probably expected more out of it.

for those saying that we learned something new about sheppard what was that exactly because i didn't catch it. we already knew that sheppard is clever, witty, charming and smart we just saw him using all these attributes to his best because he was by himself and had no one else to rely on.
Good question.

I didn't know Sheppard had the technical knowledge to fix the control chair, so that was a new thing I learned, and I was very impressed. I also had no idea he could operate the Aurora class ship systems so effortlessly, accessing broken systems and activating new one's etc... Usually McKay does all that stuff, and I'd always presumed Sheppard couldn't do that sort of stuff. Other than that...hmmmm, I guess it just reinforced what I already knew.


I'd agree we could have learned some new stuff. It was a disappointment in that respect, I'd agree.

Ruffles
November 9th, 2007, 06:58 AM
I don't think the kissing part would have worked, though, if it had been Silas, Nevik or a plain, 60 year old woman doing it. :)

I can't quite imagine him kissing any of them either. But I think they would have been able to get the stunner from him using the 'weak from being fed on' tactic Larrin used.


Why would he volunteer to run a supply mission to that planet rather than one of the other research stations? This unseen Doctor Mackenzie is unlikely to falsify reports about the tribal society's few social inhibitions and it sounds as if Rodney must have mentioned certain aspects to other members of the expedition.

Maybe supply runs to this particular planet are highly popular assignments with everyone queuing up for a turn. "I can't fly a Puddle Jumper but I can help to unload the supplies at the other end." :)

I'm not saying that he didn't go there for the reasons implied. Maybe he did. But I don't think it fits with the character as he's been drawn thus far. This is the guy willing to disable the nanites in Weir to protect the city. The risk of Wraith attack or various other scenarios on an unfamiliar planet would be too great for him to let his guard down like that.

It's more plausible (to me) that he took the supply run to get away from the city and his typical responsibilities for a few hours. And to annoy the hell out of McKay. As Ronon says, that never gets old. While he taunts McKay with the "friendliness" of the natives of that planet, he never mentions kissing the sexy alien.

ciannwn
November 9th, 2007, 08:38 AM
I'm going to start this reply with a quote from a previous post of yours.


I found Travelers to be like Linzi said - a light-hearted action ep.

The problem with SGA getting light hearted (or supposedly light hearted) is that it can make Sheppard look a bit dumb.


I'm not saying that he didn't go there for the reasons implied. Maybe he did. But I don't think it fits with the character as he's been drawn thus far. This is the guy willing to disable the nanites in Weir to protect the city. The risk of Wraith attack or various other scenarios on an unfamiliar planet would be too great for him to let his guard down like that.

This is also the same guy who wasn't a bit bothered about Lucius having studied Atlantis mission reports during his stay in the city. Who knows what other information Lucius might have come across while he was nosing around? Sheppard also succumbed to Mara's seduction in 'The Tower' even though he was in the middle of a mission. He's horrified that she's got plans to marry him but the scene ends with something which doesn't suggest that he decided not to kiss her any more and throw her out of the room instead.

Mara laughs delightedly and shoves him backwards onto the bed, following him down.

As for this tropical paradise planet being unfamiliar, well it couldn't have been that unfamiliar seeing as McKay had established a research station on it and Doctor Mackenzie had been there long enough to learn about the tribe's customs and need resupply runs.


It's more plausible (to me) that he took the supply run to get away from the city and his typical responsibilities for a few hours. And to annoy the hell out of McKay. As Ronon says, that never gets old. While he taunts McKay with the "friendliness" of the natives of that planet, he never mentions kissing the sexy alien.

Sheppard never gets the chance to elaborate on exactly how friendly the local inhabitants are because the Traveller ship attacks at that point. If the conversation had continued it's likely that Rodney would have asked for further details and Sheppard might even have supplied some.

Maybe the opening scene would have given me a different impression if it hadn't been in a light hearted action episode involving flirting and innuendos between Sheppard and a hot (to some viewers) female with a liking for low cut leather tops. :)

Seriously, though, I've got nothing against Sheppard or any other Atlantis expedition member taking an authorised day off to relax and have fun with a tribe that has little or no social inhibitions. It was the clichéd scenario of handsome hero and hot female leader in revealing clothing taking a fancy to each other that made me sigh and think "I've seen this kind of thing so many times before in dozens of other sci-fi and fantasy shows and movies".

Ruffles
November 9th, 2007, 10:06 AM
The problem with SGA getting light hearted (or supposedly light hearted) is that it can make Sheppard look a bit dumb.

One of my pet peeves is the inconsistency of the characters occasionally. For example, in S1 we have McKay in The Defiant One unloading 2 clips into a Wraith. Fast forward a few eps to The Siege, and the same McKay accidentally releases the clip instead of the safety. At some point all of the characters go a little off-center as the punchline of a joke. I appreciate lighthearted (which I found Travelers to be). I despise stupid (which I found The Tower and both I eps to be).


This is also the same guy who wasn't a bit bothered about Lucius having studied Atlantis mission reports during his stay in the city. Who knows what other information Lucius might have come across while he was nosing around? Sheppard also succumbed to Mara's seduction in 'The Tower' even though he was in the middle of a mission. He's horrified that she's got plans to marry him but the scene ends with something which doesn't suggest that he decided not to kiss her any more and throw her out of the room instead.

Mara laughs delightedly and shoves him backwards onto the bed, following him down.

See above for my thoughts on these eps. One thing I will say about The Tower, we never see what happens with Mara. The next morning, Sheppard goes to see Otho and tells him that someone has the wrong idea about him. It's also my understanding that they filmed a scene where he throws her out of his room, but to my everlasting dismay it got cut for time.


As for this tropical paradise planet being unfamiliar, well it couldn't have been that unfamiliar seeing as McKay had established a research station on it and Doctor Mackenzie had been there long enough to learn about the tribe's customs and need resupply runs.

True, but it would have been unfamiliar to Sheppard.


Sheppard never gets the chance to elaborate on exactly how friendly the local inhabitants are because the Traveller ship attacks at that point. If the conversation had continued it's likely that Rodney would have asked for further details and Sheppard might even have supplied some.

Maybe the opening scene would have given me a different impression if it hadn't been in a light hearted action episode involving flirting and innuendos between Sheppard and a hot (to some viewers) female with a liking for low cut leather tops. :)

Seriously, though, I've got nothing against Sheppard or any other Atlantis expedition member taking an authorised day off to relax and have fun with a tribe that has little or no social inhibitions. It was the clichéd scenario of handsome hero and hot female leader in revealing clothing taking a fancy to each other that made me sigh and think "I've seen this kind of thing so many times before in dozens of other sci-fi and fantasy shows and movies".

I totally understand what you're saying. As a fan of the character, there are several instances where I wish the writer had chosen to go a different direction. I knew the kiss was coming from all the trailers/promo vids for the ep. I still have no problem with it or her. And I still think he would have lost that stunner whether he let her kiss him or not.

I also have to say I appreciate having a civilized discussion of it with you. I love hearing what other people see and think about an ep. I'm looking forward to this week's ep where the girls get to be action heroes. :)

ciannwn
November 9th, 2007, 11:32 AM
One thing I will say about The Tower, we never see what happens with Mara.

Even if the original intention had been for Sheppard to have a night of steamy passion we wouldn't have seen it. SGA isn't that kind of show. :)


The next morning, Sheppard goes to see Otho and tells him that someone has the wrong idea about him.

Sheppard doesn't make it clear what this wrong idea is concerning Mara's seduction attempt. From the script transcript -

(Mara grabs him and kisses him passionately.)

(They kiss again.)

SHEPPARD: What did I say again? (He starts kissing her neck.)

MARA: About the villagers. My brother thinks it's a sign of weakness, but I know that it means you'll be a great ruler some day.

SHEPPARD: Right! (He grins and kisses her again, then his eyes open and he pulls back.) Ruler?! Wh-wh-what are you talking about?

MARA: My father has promised that if we are married, the succession will fall to me!

(John stares at her, aghast.)

The goings on in this scene give the impression that the wrong idea concerns him being willing to marry Mara rather than him not being the sort to give in to a seduction attempt.


It's also my understanding that they filmed a scene where he throws her out of his room, but to my everlasting dismay it got cut for time.

Unfortunately scenes which aren't included in the final version don't count. Surely TPTB must have realised what conclusions viewers were likely to make from what was left in? Didn't they care? Perhaps it's this story which makes a lot of viewers regard Sheppard as the Stargate universe's equivalent of Kirk, especially after his brief romance with an ascended Ancient.


I totally understand what you're saying. As a fan of the character, there are several instances where I wish the writer had chosen to go a different direction.

I'm not a fan of the character. I think it's because the writers didn't go in those different directions. :(


I knew the kiss was coming from all the trailers/promo vids for the ep. I still have no problem with it or her.

I knew it was going to happen too. I can't say it made me look forward to the episode, though. Maybe the real problem I've got with it is the possibility of her turning up again. Are they going to spend an episode flirting and snatching quick kisses in between fighting Wraith, Asurans or whatever?


And I still think he would have lost that stunner whether he let her kiss him or not.

I do too. Will he ever let her kiss him again, though, or will he be sensible and have suspicions concerning what she's really up to? :)

garhkal
November 9th, 2007, 12:03 PM
One thing i would have loved to see explained (or shown) was what weapon(s) the travelers used to disable john's jumper without damaging it..

Linzi
November 9th, 2007, 12:09 PM
One thing i would have loved to see explained (or shown) was what weapon(s) the travelers used to disable john's jumper without damaging it..
Me too! What sort of technology was that? I'd like to know more about that sort of technology!

As for the Mara talk? Cut scenes aside, would Sheppard have gone to Otho and said 'people have got the wrong idea about me' if he'd slept with Mara? Nope, because then they'd have gotten the right idea.

ciannwn
November 9th, 2007, 12:45 PM
As for the Mara talk? Cut scenes aside, would Sheppard have gone to Otho and said 'people have got the wrong idea about me' if he'd slept with Mara? Nope, because then they'd have gotten the right idea.

Many people have drawn different conclusions from this story because the last thing we see of Sheppard is him on the bed with Mara after they've been kissing a lot. If TPTB didn't want a lot of viewers getting the wrong idea they could have just added a few words to one of Sheppard's lines in his later conversation with Otho. As an example -

SHEPPARD: Uh, Mara came to visit me last night. I sent her away, though, before anything really happened.

A few words would have taken up less time than a scene showing the same thing and everyone would be certain that Sheppard wasn't more horrified at the thought of marriage than a girl trying to seduce him.

We then get the opening conversation in 'Travellers' which, when added to the ambiguity of 'The Tower' seems to have made some viewers get what might be yet another wrong impression, particularly when there's flirtation with Larrin later on.

I wouldn't care if Sheppard had a girlfriend on every planet they've visited as long as he had his flings when he wasn't supposed to be on duty. After all, I'm 58 and my generation invented sex back in the 1960's. :D What irritates me are the ambiguities which suggest that he gets distracted by attractive females when his mind is supposed to be on other things.

Linzi
November 9th, 2007, 01:26 PM
Many people have drawn different conclusions from this story because the last thing we see of Sheppard is him on the bed with Mara after they've been kissing a lot. If TPTB didn't want a lot of viewers getting the wrong idea they could have just added a few words to one of Sheppard's lines in his later conversation with Otho. As an example -

SHEPPARD: Uh, Mara came to visit me last night. I sent her away, though, before anything really happened.

A few words would have taken up less time than a scene showing the same thing and everyone would be certain that Sheppard wasn't more horrified at the thought of marriage than a girl trying to seduce him.

We then get the opening conversation in 'Travellers' which, when added to the ambiguity of 'The Tower' seems to have made some viewers get what might be yet another wrong impression, particularly when there's flirtation with Larrin later on.

I wouldn't care if Sheppard had a girlfriend on every planet they've visited as long as he had his flings when he wasn't supposed to be on duty. After all, I'm 58 and my generation invented sex back in the 1960's. :D What irritates me are the ambiguities which suggest that he gets distracted by attractive females when his mind is supposed to be on other things.
Well, I drew my conclusions from what was said in the episode, and they were backed up by what Joe Mollozzi said about what was in the script. :)

ciannwn
November 9th, 2007, 01:35 PM
,Well, I drew my conclusions from what was said in the episode, and they were backed up by what Joe Mollozzi said about what was in the script. :)

Others drew their conclusions from what they actually saw in that that scene. :) What did he say about what was in the script, by the way? Was he talking about the bit which would have made things perfectly clear if it hadn't been thrown out for time?

Linzi
November 9th, 2007, 01:52 PM
Others drew their conclusions from what they actually saw in that that scene. :) What did he say about what was in the script, by the way? Was he talking about the bit which would have made things perfectly clear if it hadn't been thrown out for time?
People see what they want to, I'm sure. JM said that in the original script Sheppard threw Mara out of the room, but it was edited out of the final cut.

ciannwn
November 9th, 2007, 02:17 PM
People see what they want to, I'm sure.

I can't say that I particularly wanted to see something which implied that Sheppard gets distracted by seductive girls when he's on a mission.


JM said that in the original script Sheppard threw Mara out of the room, but it was edited out of the final cut.

Maybe it would have been better if something else had been edited out and that bit left in.

We don't get that kind of puzzle with Battlestar Galactica. It's always perfectly clear who's doing what with who. :D

Charles Schneider
November 17th, 2007, 11:15 AM
Great ship design, very reminiscent of the Millenium Falcon and Star Wars technology in general.

Yeade
November 21st, 2007, 08:30 AM
Man, I'm always late to the party. And not fashionably so. :p

Disclaimer: While I hold a great deal of affection for all the characters, I love John best. As such, I have a certain bias in wanting to think well of Sheppard.

"Travelers," IMO, works well as an action piece. The episode does introduce Larrin, but I think her characterization's very broad, under pressure, and more a matter of potential than some in-depth study of her as an individual. Her leather outfit doesn't do much for me. (One of these days, I'm going to have to seriously consider why so many aliens wear so much leather. Something to do with wear-and-tear resistance, I imagine.) However, I found her interesting enough to look forward to another appearance. She was smart and motivated, dedicated to her people, practical, resourceful, ruthless when necessary, and occasionally very stupid.

Actually, she strikes me as a female John Sheppard. If a little more willing to sacrifice others--not a surprise in the Pegasus galaxy. Probably why the two of them, at one and the same time, couldn't stand one another and got along like a merrily burning something. (Incidentally, for a character without much backstory or explicit characterization, a great deal about Sheppard's general personality and outlook on life has been revealed through hallucinations--"Home," "Progeny," "Phantoms"--and various warped reflections--Kolya, "Conversion," "The Game," "Doppelganger," now Larrin.)

Probably Larrin's weakest moment, for me, was her reaction to the Wraith Gift of Life. Somehow I thought there'd be more to it. Though even I'm not certain what else I expected.

It's interesting to note she said the return of her life felt kind of good, as that didn't seem to be the reaction Ronon's Satedan friends had in their "Reunion" flashbacks. From Sheppard's reply in this episode, his experience in "Common Ground" didn't hurt too much. Of course, I suppose you can't be sure with Sheppard, the way he compartmentalizes and represses everything bad.

Oddly enough, what I thought was Larrin's best characterization also has to do with the Wraith. When the Wraith cruiser first showed up, she seemed genuinely afraid. If still brash. Her fear gave her, IMO, a panicked edge and drove her to be rather more violent towards Sheppard than she'd been earlier. Thinking it over, it makes sense that the Travelers, as a race whose whole way of life is to avoid the Wraith by whatever means necessary, wouldn't have had much contact with the Wraith, a situation which adds the horror of the unknown to that of life-sucking alien vampires. Anyways, Larrin seemed very believably shaken--her gun hand was, in fact, physically shaking whereas, later, when blasting out of the chair room, her aim was rock-steady. Color me impressed.

I also enjoyed her antics in trying to escape the chair room. Wheedling, playing the pity card, (unsuccessfully) hot-wiring Ancient controls, and finally resorting to brute force. Only to run face-first into a force field, lol. All very amusing.

As for Sheppard, I must admit I think "Travelers" revealed nothing particularly surprising about him. It's always a treat for me to see ninja!John, and Sheppard really acts differently when by himself. I find he simultaneously gets quirkier (i.e. more of a pain in the ass for his unlucky captors) and deadly competent. It's a rather strange yet fitting dichotomy.

What else? "Travelers" fed my true SGA OTP: John + Ancient technology (especially ships, chairs, and Atlantis, which has and is both). I don't remember there being a chair on the Orion though. Or, for that matter, the captain's seat having a nifty handpad that apparently operates both sublight and hyperspace drives with nary a button or other visible control in sight. (Yay for the Ancient mental/emotional technology interface!) Well, maybe Ancient captains had a free hand to make modifications.

Sheppard falling for the kiss? He seems to have a huge blind spot when it comes to people being, ha, overly friendly. My bias is probably showing, but I tend to think this has less to do with him being oversexed and more to do with him being an idealist (a romantic?) who can't really conceive of somebody using sex as a weapon or leverage. I keep thinking back to his style of negotiation in "Underground" and "The Storm": Hey, let's be friends. Then we can do each other favors. As friends do. Can't help but wonder if this is his approach to sex, too. That is, if you save a beautiful woman from getting life-sucked by a Wraith and she decides to kiss you, that's okay. Just her way of thanking you. And it'd be sort of rude to reject her. I dunno. I guess Sheppard just seems passive in these encounters. He was nervous with Chaya, and Teer and Mara had to practically throw themselves at him. He was alert to Neera's machinations but, then again, she was inordinately nosy about his homeworld, IMO, and he was prisoner aboard a Wraith hive, which would tend to make anyone paranoid. What's more, there's his incredibly awkward and hilarious attempt to seduce the Wraith-cum-hot-chick first officer of the Aurora into letting him see the captain.

All of which leads me to conclude he's not as sensitive to sexual subterfuge as he is to other deceptions because his normal mode of operation is to be friendly. Which more often than not--perhaps due to his, in my <cough> admittedly unprofessional opinion, good looks--makes him come across as a bit of a flirt or tease.

Perhaps this is another case of Sheppard overgeneralizing his motivations to others. After all, he doesn't have potentially harmful ulterior motives when kissing anybody or otherwise being nice. Why would anyone else? I think this particular trait of his is apparent in both his early S1 negotiations and his back-and-forth deals with Larrin in this episode (e.g. his initial assumption that she wouldn't risk her men by exposing the bridge to radiation--he wouldn't).

This is all speculation, of course. That I don't really feel qualified to do, seeing as I have only my own experience, that of family and a few friends to draw on. Comments are welcome. :)

Redhooks
November 23rd, 2007, 11:00 AM
Man, I'm always late to the party. And not fashionably so. :p

Disclaimer: While I hold a great deal of affection for all the characters, I love John best. As such, I have a certain bias in wanting to think well of Sheppard.

"Travelers," IMO, works well as an action piece. The episode does introduce Larrin, but I think her characterization's very broad, under pressure, and more a matter of potential than some in-depth study of her as an individual. Her leather outfit doesn't do much for me. (One of these days, I'm going to have to seriously consider why so many aliens wear so much leather. Something to do with wear-and-tear resistance, I imagine.) However, I found her interesting enough to look forward to another appearance. She was smart and motivated, dedicated to her people, practical, resourceful, ruthless when necessary, and occasionally very stupid.

Actually, she strikes me as a female John Sheppard. If a little more willing to sacrifice others--not a surprise in the Pegasus galaxy. Probably why the two of them, at one and the same time, couldn't stand one another and got along like a merrily burning something. (Incidentally, for a character without much backstory or explicit characterization, a great deal about Sheppard's general personality and outlook on life has been revealed through hallucinations--"Home," "Progeny," "Phantoms"--and various warped reflections--Kolya, "Conversion," "The Game," "Doppelganger," now Larrin.)

Probably Larrin's weakest moment, for me, was her reaction to the Wraith Gift of Life. Somehow I thought there'd be more to it. Though even I'm not certain what else I expected.

It's interesting to note she said the return of her life felt kind of good, as that didn't seem to be the reaction Ronon's Satedan friends had in their "Reunion" flashbacks. From Sheppard's reply in this episode, his experience in "Common Ground" didn't hurt too much. Of course, I suppose you can't be sure with Sheppard, the way he compartmentalizes and represses everything bad.

Oddly enough, what I thought was Larrin's best characterization also has to do with the Wraith. When the Wraith cruiser first showed up, she seemed genuinely afraid. If still brash. Her fear gave her, IMO, a panicked edge and drove her to be rather more violent towards Sheppard than she'd been earlier. Thinking it over, it makes sense that the Travelers, as a race whose whole way of life is to avoid the Wraith by whatever means necessary, wouldn't have had much contact with the Wraith, a situation which adds the horror of the unknown to that of life-sucking alien vampires. Anyways, Larrin seemed very believably shaken--her gun hand was, in fact, physically shaking whereas, later, when blasting out of the chair room, her aim was rock-steady. Color me impressed.:)
What I disliked about how Larrin was written was that as a leader of a people that usually run from the Wraith, why is she wasting time punching Sheppard, when she should be taking him to the bridge in order to move the ship in hyperspace away from the area that they were in so that they could avoid the Wraith ship? That was a very poor leadership move and it makes me wonder why/how such a young woman got to be in this position/rank as a Commander of the Travelers? Oh yeah, I forgot, it wouldn't be "dramatic" for the ship to avoid the Wraith ship, have Silas and Nevik not get killed, not have Wraith board the ship, and not have Larrin get Wraith-sucked and then restored. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, it seems out of character for a leader to worry about punishment when another action is needed to save her people and the ship.

jenks
November 23rd, 2007, 06:28 PM
Worst episode this season by an absolute mile.

Lythisrose
November 23rd, 2007, 08:40 PM
Tonight I don't care, I just love Shep.

blue-skyz
November 27th, 2007, 07:40 PM
Travelers aired some four weeks ago and now we have eight episodes of season 4. In looking back and trying to decide how I would rank them for repeatability, Travelers comes out number one. Now, I freely admit that I am a Sheppard fan and since this is the first episode ever in which he has had so much screen time, it was probably destined to be a favorite. However, I do find much to like about it besides Sheppard.

I was not able to read the general discussion thread at the time Travelers aired until there were pages and pages of scathing comments about Travelers and how foolish Sheppard was. My mouth was hanging open. It was enough to make me wonder if I had watched the same episode or had not paid close enough attention to it. The posts turned out to be mainly from the same very persistent people and made it difficult for people with differing opinions to say much without being ridiculed. It is a shame that such a negative campaign can color the feelings and beliefs of those that read it. It did make me think through why I found the episode so enjoyable, but rewatching it confirmed my original opinion.

What makes Travelers so repeatable? Mostly it is fun. It’s supposed to be fun. The whole feeling of the episode is meant to be light. It is a running joke. In a dark season it is the comedy relief. It lays part of the ground work for the rest of the season, giving us a smarter Sheppard, the Travelers and their tech, a new ally, a new character, an Ancient warship and, maybe, another Wraith who will remember Sheppard.

These are the things I like best:

1. Sheppard being definitively intelligent and capable. Here he understands Ancient tech and space related concepts. He fixes the chair and manages to get the damaged communications array to send out an SOS. He is confident in his abilities. Given his intelligence and three years on Atlantis, his actions here are completely credible and very welcome.

2. Sci-fi. I like the idea of space and space ships. I like the idea of traveling in space and living in space and hyperdrive engines and inertial dampeners and tractor beams and energy weapons that knock out controls and subspace SOS signals and force shields and life signs detectors and Ronon’s gun and the chair and drones, etc, etc. This episode was chock full of it all; sci-fi heaven.

3. Finding a group of technologically advanced humans. The ubiquitous small primitive village is not exactly what I watch sci-fi for. The fact is I would be glad to see the Travelers even if they were the bad guys… or maybe especially if they were the bad guys. :rolleyes: Of course, we really don’t know what they are. Advanced is just so much more interesting than not.

4. Sheppard using his genetic abilities to make Ancient things work. Always cool and never used enough. I hope this is only the precursor to seeing him deal with Ancient tech more often.

5. The team. Although on screen for only a small percentage of the time, the team’s effort to find Sheppard is perfect. I loved their concern and loved Ronon saying they would go after him even if he was in a fleet of hive ships. I also loved the last scene in the cafeteria.

6. The banter between Sheppard and Larrin. Larrin is dressed ridiculously. (I would dress all women in sci-fi in clothes equivalent to the ones the men wear: long sleeves, long pants and a covered chest and mid section. Pet peeve from Star Trek days.) Larrin is, at times, over the top: too mean, too sexy, too seductive, but in all fairness, I think, that was the intention. I would have made her a more believable commander, but she was credible when she was talking to her own officer after her people had found her. I hope the clothes and the over the top demeanor turn out to have been an act to intimidate and manipulate Sheppard. She certainly turned it off fast enough after she stunned him. All this aside though, I enjoyed the back and forth between them, they are relative equals and they each held their own well. I look forward to Sheppard’s reaction to her the next time they meet. It should be a lot of fun to see his and Larrin’s banter when they are on a more equal footing and trying to work together.

I realize that this is a red flag episode for those viewers that do not like Sheppard, but for me, it is great fun.


Two comments from the perspective of time:

1. Larrin accuses Sheppard of bringing the Wraith with his subspace SOS transmission and the viewer just accepts her opinion. I think she was wrong. I think it is far more likely that the Wraith knew about the Ancient ship and had a transmitter on it or some other way of watching it, waiting to see if it was activated or moved. It has been there for 10 thousand years. Even if it seems from Larrin’s fear that the Travelers have not seen the Wraith for many generations, the Wraith probably know that they exist, after all they live a very long time and the Travelers have been around for thousands of years. If the Wraith monitored subspace transmissions effectively enough to sort out Sheppard’s SOS and follow it, they would have found Atlantis long ago.

2. The whole kiss the girl and lose the stunner thing is a plot device and a somewhat juvenile joke on the writer’s part. Sheppard needed to end up being allies with the Travelers, rejecting their leader’s advances probably did not seem like a good idea at the time. It was just a kiss. She could have taken the stunner while he helped her up. If he had gotten away with the Ancient ship, the Travelers would be his enemies and he would not have the availability of their other ships. It was the writers that chose this path for their own vision of the direction of the show and how Sheppard should finally win the trust of the Travelers. For my part, I found it fun, which, I think, was the point. It is always fun to see Sheppard kiss the girl; it happens so seldom.

Dusk
November 29th, 2007, 03:01 AM
Sheppard is a pussy! And a whiny biatch! Does Joe Flanigan realize the writers are just making the character of John Sheppard a Jack O'Neill clone, only younger and more girly?

The whole Kirking scenario is getting old fast. Enough! This episode is way too soapie for my liking. The last episode was so much better, but this, this is just like a virgin cocktail at your 21st birthday!

Jumper_One
November 29th, 2007, 05:29 AM
well Shep does remind me of Jack too but there are differences between those two characters. I think the problem is that we don't know much of Shep's past (which should change this season). as for 'Travelers', it's not one of my favs but still a solid Atlantis ep

Fenrir Foxz
November 29th, 2007, 12:05 PM
Sheppard is a pussy! And a whiny biatch! Does Joe Flanigan realize the writers are just making the character of John Sheppard a Jack O'Neill clone, only younger and more girly?

The whole Kirking scenario is getting old fast. Enough! This episode is way too soapie for my liking. The last episode was so much better, but this, this is just like a virgin cocktail at your 21st birthday!

LoL... I've noticed the Jack in Shep too, this epp I found to be something abit different from how the season started out but still a good SG Atlantis episode...

7/10 introduction to potential future allies against the Wraith...

Integrabyte
November 30th, 2007, 02:09 PM
Saw it again and again. I still can't give it more than 4.5 for being a Prometheus Unbound rip off. Vala and Daniel had better chemistry.

scholar
December 6th, 2007, 11:51 AM
I was not able to read the general discussion thread at the time Travelers aired until there were pages and pages of scathing comments about Travelers and how foolish Sheppard was. My mouth was hanging open. It was enough to make me wonder if I had watched the same episode or had not paid close enough attention to it. The posts turned out to be mainly from the same very persistent people and made it difficult for people with differing opinions to say much without being ridiculed. It is a shame that such a negative campaign can color the feelings and beliefs of those that read it. It did make me think through why I found the episode so enjoyable, but rewatching it confirmed my original opinion.

What makes Travelers so repeatable? Mostly it is fun. It’s supposed to be fun. The whole feeling of the episode is meant to be light. It is a running joke. In a dark season it is the comedy relief. It lays part of the ground work for the rest of the season, giving us a smarter Sheppard, the Travelers and their tech, a new ally, a new character, an Ancient warship and, maybe, another Wraith who will remember Sheppard.

Nice post. I agree with everything except that I think I like Miller's Crossing a little bit more. I see the same things on the board and I have only been reading this board for a couple of months. So much negativity.

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 06:46 AM
Nice post. I agree with everything except that I think I like Miller's Crossing a little bit more. I see the same things on the board and I have only been reading this board for a couple of months. So much negativity.

Thanks. :D

Miller's Crossing wasn't in the mix yet when I wrote that. I'm still thinking about where it falls in my ranking of this seasons episodes. It is certainly the most thought provoking. The ending scenes, I'm sure, will be among my all time favorite ones.

So much negativity. I welcome it when it stays as expressions of dislike for all or part of an episode. I cringe when it turns into attacks or campaigns. :S

I don’t have much history here, either, but I am learning to ignore the negativity. There are lots of nice people here because they love Atlantis just as I do and I expect you do.

Welcome.:)

Mitchell82
December 22nd, 2007, 06:43 PM
Sheppard is a pussy! And a whiny biatch! Does Joe Flanigan realize the writers are just making the character of John Sheppard a Jack O'Neill clone, only younger and more girly?

The whole Kirking scenario is getting old fast. Enough! This episode is way too soapie for my liking. The last episode was so much better, but this, this is just like a virgin cocktail at your 21st birthday!

Wow you really hate this ep huh? Shep is far from that and while I this isn't the best ep of the season it is still a great ep introducing a new character.

Crichiel
February 2nd, 2008, 07:29 PM
Thanks. :D

So much negativity. I welcome it when it stays as expressions of dislike for all or part of an episode. I cringe when it turns into attacks or campaigns. :S

I don’t have much history here, either, but I am learning to ignore the negativity. There are lots of nice people here because they love Atlantis just as I do and I expect you do.

Welcome.:)

I haven't been on here long either, but I figured out really quickly that for all the negativity that is out there, when I get totally fed up with it, there are some great threads that are all positive! I love that!! And speaking of negativity, I have just been floored by how much of it I have found for Travelers in all the different threads. It was just on Sci-Fi again last night, and I absolutely don't get how this one gets on people's "Worst of" lists here. I adore this episode. I thought JF was fantastic in portraying Sheppard's aloofness to the whole kidnapping, I thought Larrin was a good match intellectually with Sheppard, and the kids and I laughed for literally days over the whole "...initialise inertial dampeners" gag!

blue-skyz
February 12th, 2008, 01:37 PM
I haven't been on here long either, but I figured out really quickly that for all the negativity that is out there, when I get totally fed up with it, there are some great threads that are all positive! I love that!! And speaking of negativity, I have just been floored by how much of it I have found for Travelers in all the different threads. It was just on Sci-Fi again last night, and I absolutely don't get how this one gets on people's "Worst of" lists here. I adore this episode. I thought JF was fantastic in portraying Sheppard's aloofness to the whole kidnapping, I thought Larrin was a good match intellectually with Sheppard, and the kids and I laughed for literally days over the whole "...initialise inertial dampeners" gag!
I totally agree. I adore this episode, too. My favorite this season so far for repeatable.

I am against main character ships, but I would love to see a lot more of Sheppard and Larrin.
They do seem to be evenly matched.:P;):)
Not a popular view around here. :S

Lythisrose
February 12th, 2008, 04:36 PM
I totally agree. I adore this episode, too. My favorite this season so far for repeatable.

I am against main character ships, but I would love to see a lot more of Sheppard and Larrin.
They do seem to be evenly matched.:P;):)
Not a popular view around here. :S

I think someday we may look back on this pair with fondness. Kind of like when something bad happens to you but, after enough time, you look back and can laugh about it. To me, this ship has the potential to age well. Very much dependent on future writing and character development. :S

Raven56
February 21st, 2008, 10:22 AM
I totally agree. I adore this episode, too. My favorite this season so far for repeatable.

I am against main character ships, but I would love to see a lot more of Sheppard and Larrin.
They do seem to be evenly matched.:P;):)
Not a popular view around here. :S
Sad, isn't it? I thought they were fun together - she's the only woman around who's capable of making Sheppard stumble over his own feet, which is a rather amusing sight, IMO. I love watching him trying to keep up with her in the 'innuendo contest' - which she actually started.... :)

shaggy
March 6th, 2008, 04:12 PM
This was a great episode. I know i maybe 'hated' for saying this - but - Now with Wier pretty well "gone" from the show, this is a good way to bring in a different relationship for Sheppard.

No, Larrin is not like Wier, nor should she be. She was a bit over the top in the outfits and attitude but I guess if you are "jet setting" around the galaxy then you may act the same...

It really is unfortunate that we have not seen more from the travelers.

isn't it nice when we can all just get along.:)

John W
June 22nd, 2008, 10:25 AM
I don't know about anyone else but I really hated how this episode made Sheppard look like a total idiot. Granted, he was somewhat smitten with Larrin and may have even had reservations about hitting a woman. But purely as a military soldier, I have a hard time believing he wouldn't be able to defend against all those punches he took. Even when he had his hands tied behind his back, he still could've used his legs or something.

I also knew before he kissed her that she was going to pull his weapon on him. I kept thinking, "That's one of the oldest tricks in the book!":rolleyes:

Still, it was cool seeing a fully-operational Aurora-Class ship again. That little trick Sheppard did with the inertial dampeners was cool and good-thinking on Sheppard's part too.:cool:

Orion25
September 23rd, 2008, 05:10 PM
Hmm, I'm trying to like the whole episode but the only thing that interested me was the tie up to Ronon's weapon and the scene where Sheppard fooled the other two Traveler engineers by taking Larrin's instructions literally. lolz. Too bad, it didn't left Larrin unconscious for a period of time. It also might have been interesting if the two had continued outsmarting each other instead of us, catching glaring hints that Sheppard was likely to kiss the girl. Then, when the Wraith came in to complicate things, we might have seen how these two leaders try to neutralize the Wraiths in their own ways. This might lead more sections of the ship damaged or not, depending on their plans, we'll never know but I think it might fuel more drama.

Another scene that I liked was when Sheppard was in the chair room trouble shooting the problematic chair. We usually see McKay down on his knees with wires trailing around him on the floor. Here, it was Sheppard doing the fixing. It presented he has some considerable grasp on Ancient technology to figure out the problem. I'm betting he'll be slipping a thank you (behind the scenes) to McKay for that. Lastly, when he reached the auxiliary control room to assess his situation and sent the Morse code, that was not bad.

I guess it would be wishful thinking now (a remote possibility ) in meeting another technologically advanced race who had been once a sister city of Atlantis (not Asurans) that are still embroiled in the Wraith wars yet surviving even if this race had been driven to the corner.

Butlersgate
March 11th, 2009, 08:57 AM
if laran's(idk how to spell it) weapon runs out why doesn't ronans, that's the only thing i don't get, the rest of the episode ruled!

ciannwn
March 11th, 2009, 09:12 AM
if laran's(idk how to spell it) weapon runs out why doesn't ronans, !

Ronon's gun is powered by magic.

Butlersgate
March 11th, 2009, 09:35 AM
Ronon's gun is powered by magic.

oh i forgot about that :D

jelgate
March 11th, 2009, 10:16 AM
Ronon's gun is powered by magic.

I thought it ran on Ronon's anger.:P

Butlersgate
March 11th, 2009, 10:30 AM
I thought it ran on Ronon's anger.:P

nah it runs on silence, which is why he hardly speaks ;)

major davis
May 2nd, 2009, 11:21 AM
It's a "cute" yet a fun episode. Great to see a shepard love interest. Would not watch it more than once or twice though.
7/10

Ragitsu
April 20th, 2010, 09:19 PM
Hands down, one of the worst episodes of Season 4.

asdf1239
April 21st, 2010, 07:17 PM
the worst is bamsr

Falcon Horus
April 22nd, 2010, 11:08 AM
the worst is bamsr

Nope, that would be Trio.

jelgate
April 22nd, 2010, 02:34 PM
Nope, that would be Trio.
Wrong. Harmony

Falcon Horus
April 23rd, 2010, 09:22 AM
Wrong. Harmony

Well, true... but it managed to make me LOL very much at the end... to the point where I snorted soda through the nose. :p

mrscopterdoc
September 6th, 2010, 12:29 PM
One of the worst episodes of the season. I dislike Larrin very much.

maneth
February 11th, 2011, 09:40 AM
Larrin was annoying, but loved Sheppard in this. He was a bit too much of a gentleman after she pulled the first punch on him, though. Should've hit back.

Skie
March 21st, 2011, 09:01 AM
Well, I kinda liked the idea of having a society living in space because of the wraith.

Larrin can't really be trusted, she showed that several times. Yet Shepp trusts her more than Todd who restored Shepp's life. Go figure. :rolleyes:

We see now where Ronon got his gun. When Shepp sneaks behind this wraith who just sucked on Larrin he checks the power cell on his blaster. It's definitely empty. Um, why does Ronon never need to change the power cell. And don't tell me he has soo many spares with him. :p I would have liked it more, if the gun Ronon had was originally from Sadeta.

mrscopterdoc
June 7th, 2011, 04:30 PM
Perhaps Ronon DID have his gun from Sateda, and it is the Travelers that stole the gun from them....

garhkal
June 8th, 2011, 04:03 PM
I'm thinking it was the other way. And it has at times looked like he 'checked the charge' on his gun.

Skie
June 11th, 2011, 05:11 AM
I'm thinking it was the other way. And it has at times looked like he 'checked the charge' on his gun.

As far as I can remember, we see that only once in CG and there he checks the setting of the gun (deadly/stunning) not the power cell.

garhkal
June 11th, 2011, 12:01 PM
That makes me wonder.. does he even have any spare cells?

Skie
June 11th, 2011, 12:10 PM
That makes me wonder.. does he even have any spare cells?

Most certainly not. Ronon has the VIP version, which has an infinite power cell. :P

WraithCommander
June 11th, 2011, 12:29 PM
she was mega hot too :p

mrscopterdoc
June 13th, 2011, 08:30 AM
Most certainly not. Ronon has the VIP version, which has an infinite power cell. :P

:lol:

garhkal
June 15th, 2011, 03:19 PM
she was mega hot too :p

I thought the chick in lost tribes that helped out was better looking..

DutchCarterLover
July 10th, 2011, 11:34 AM
Larrin is super hot. episode was a bit of a drag though imo.

5.5/10

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 7th, 2012, 02:55 PM
I personally though this was the best episode of the season so far. Adrift is a close second. I'm not setting my hopes high for next week's episode.
That score as we first saw the Ancient ship was awesome.

What else, we made a new ally, I think. And we have some possible backstory on Ronan's gun.

Monday, everyone loses their memories (I swear that was a plot on SG-1).

Krisz
September 7th, 2012, 05:30 PM
I can't recall ever having seen this episode. Either because it was forgettable, or it is one I've skipped on the DVD.

Anyway, I thought it was OK. I've been a bit annoyed by seeing all these Aurora class Ancient ships turning up everywhere it seems, but we see so little of them! This episode at least gave us a better view of one, and it was fun to see Sheppard effortlessly controlling it. When he rerouted the control chair's power supply I thought that was a great moment, like O'Neill Sheppard seems to have some hidden talents but only use them when absolutely necessary. It would have been funny to see McKay's reaction to seeing what Sheppard did!

The game of one upmanship between Larrin and Sheppard was fun to start with but then got a little annoying, just get on and fight the common enemy! :rolleyes:

Lythisrose
September 10th, 2012, 07:28 AM
From Joe Mallozzi's Blog (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/september-8-2012-were-go-for-philly-cheesesteak-sunday-fuji-blows-its-top-days-of-stargate-atlantis-past-travelers/):

TRAVELERS (405)

For the longest while, Joe Flanigan wanted us to cast a sexy female regular to play off Sheppard, a character who, in tandem with John, would offer the show a Moonlighting dynamic. While I wasn’t against the idea, I felt that the addition of another regular would take away from the existing dynamic. Instead, I came up with an alternative scenario, one that would introduce a character with recurring potential. And so, the idea for Larrin, and the Travelers, Larrin, was born. As was the case whenever we cast a guest star, everyone was all over every audition – to the point that I seriously wondered whether we would ever find our Larrin in time. Well, we did – eventually – casting the lovely Jill Wagner. The plan had always been to bringer back but scheduling conflicts quashed that possibility and, sadly, while referred to onscreen, Larrin was never seen again. [Oops. Right. Never seen again. After the mid-season two-parter].

He added that last "oops" after people reminded him that Larrin was back in BAMSR.

Falcon Horus
September 10th, 2012, 11:25 AM
While I wasn’t against the idea, I felt that the addition of another regular would take away from the existing dynamic.

I wonder what dynamic he's talking about... *ponders*

Lieutenant Sparrow
September 12th, 2012, 03:55 AM
Not a bad ep. Could be better.

Travellers hey. Interesting people. Not the best of first meetings though.

This is where we learn where Ronon's particle magnum came from, possibly.

When Shep was gonna get blown out the hanger. Why couldn't he just hop in the jumper. Blow me out now mwahaha.

Nice bluff from Shep with the depleted magnum. Sad how the Wraith aren't really scary at this point.

Matt G
September 13th, 2012, 01:37 PM
Midweek, another ep of Atlantis:

1. Have to admit I forgot half the cool moments in this ep.

2. Travelers, again, are idiots - you slam me against a wall and I'm going to to push back. A guy like Shep can push pretty hard as the Travellers found out.

3. Forgot how little the others had to do in this ep.

Still a very fun ep though.

jelgate
September 15th, 2012, 06:21 PM
This episode did not make a whole sense. You kidnapp this guy and plan to have him do what you want because you have good intentions. No Larin it did not make sense. It makes little sense for a person kidnapped to cooperate. It made even less sense when Sheppherd kissed Larin. What in the world where you trying to accomplish. This is women who captured and tortured you. What were you think. The whole team dynamic of these two made no sense. It worked better in BAMSR remember but in this episode did not. The whole characterization of these two is off. The Travelers being desperate to let their people live is a noble one and not a bad idea but like many bad episodes of Stargate this was a good idea but not so good execution.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
September 16th, 2012, 10:18 AM
It makes little sense for a person kidnapped to cooperate. It made even less sense when Sheppherd kissed Larin. What in the world where you trying to accomplish. This is women who captured and tortured you. What were you think.
May I point out Stockholm syndrome, which is the tendency of the kidnapped to admire and even protect the kidnapper?

Jae'a
October 16th, 2012, 11:45 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/73939.html)
OK ep. A Shep ep. :P

jelgate
October 16th, 2012, 12:33 PM
May I point out Stockholm syndrome, which is the tendency of the kidnapped to admire and even protect the kidnapper?

You may but I would not buy it considering the number of times Shepphed has been kidnapped and amount of times people had a sympathy story for kidnapping Atlantis members.

The Urban Spaceman
October 16th, 2012, 01:05 PM
You may but I would not buy it considering the number of times Shepphed has been kidnapped

Most of the time he got kidnapped by Kolya, though. And let's face it, Sheppard is a guy. Of course he's going to make an idiot out of himself when kidnapped by a hot, dominating woman who's trying to do right for her people, rather than a loco homicidal maniac who's out for revenge.

Unfortunately, the whole thing did rather take away from the urgency of the episode. You knew Shep was never in any real danger, just as you knew Daniel was never in any real danger when Vala took over the Prometheus. Because if there is 'real danger', your kidnapper tends to feed you to Wraith, not let you snog them.

Cluas
February 21st, 2013, 10:51 PM
I liked the concept of this one. It was annoying to see Larrin and Sheppard arguing, they should have just worked together. But she was afraid he wouldn't have helped. Bad plot. But exciting enough ep.

Sheppard did make a few mistakes, but he was still cool.
And in the end they got some kind of alliance, so for once it was a happy end.
Good to see Lorne (one of my last favorites left), and he had some lines too ...

I read somewhere that this was actually Flanigan's idea (I should have known) :sheppard28:

garhkal
February 24th, 2013, 01:03 PM
What i always wondered is how in the heck did that Aurora class ship remain undetected for so long?

Baron Of Hell
September 3rd, 2013, 04:28 PM
What i always wondered is how in the heck did that Aurora class ship remain undetected for so long?

Space is really big. Bigger than you think.

I thought this was just ok. These think of themselves as good guys yet do horrible things. I guess I didn't see the point of treating Shep poorly once they had him. I can forgive the kidnapping but come on give the guy helping you some respect.

Didn't really care for Larrin. Didn't think she did well with the part.

garhkal
September 6th, 2013, 10:33 AM
Perhaps they have been 'burned' too often by others in the past..

Redhooks
September 10th, 2013, 10:03 PM
This episode did not make a whole sense. The Travelers were a good concept that was poorly executed with a sub-par writing job by Paul Mullie. So much more could have been brought to light how this group of people survived since the Lanteans left the Galaxy 10K years ago. Instead, we get juvenile writing and bad interaction between the two main characters in the episode. It was a cookie cutter plot by writers who had lost any originality.

garhkal
September 11th, 2013, 11:06 PM
True, and even their latter episode (lost tribe) that they appeared in as well as the brief aspect we had of them in be all my sins remembered, they never expanded on them.. Just like lots of stuff in SG1, we will never know.

Lunaeclipse
September 22nd, 2013, 02:19 AM
Haven't seen it in a while, but from what I remember of it ..I kind of liked the fact she threw Sheppard off guard... It was almost a comedy ep to me...

mrscopterdoc
August 20th, 2014, 06:29 PM
Larrin was annoying, but loved Sheppard in this. He was a bit too much of a gentleman after she pulled the first punch on him, though. Should've hit back.
or shot her :P

garhkal
August 22nd, 2014, 08:05 PM
Neither of those would have been "Manly".

Night Maiden
September 4th, 2014, 11:15 AM
I loved the part where Sheppard ordered the wraith to give Larrin's life back and let the wraith leave alive.

*follows the sexy wraith ;)*