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Ripple in Space
October 27th, 2007, 09:28 PM
As others have pointed out, it was very similar to "Prometheus Unbound" in CONCEPT. Within the first few minutes of watching it came to mind. Personally, I thought Claudia Black's acting was what made that episode good, and that was before I even knew who she was (I'd never seen Farscape). This girl didn't have a fraction of the quirkiness or seductiveness that Claudia's Vala did. I mean, the actress is very attractive, but she didn't play it up, where in the scene that she stuns Shepp, she should have.

It also made less sense than Prom Un, since, sure, Daniel was at that time fairly seasoned in the field, but he was still an Archaeologist first and foremost. While he surely had some combat training, he's not an officer. Shep on the other hand has proven himself to be a very capable fighter, nearly keeping up with Ronon & Teyla (imagine Daniel vs. Teal'c...). Shepp should have been able to take the ship to the Expedition's Pegasus Alpha Site, with the Travelers in the Brig.

IMO, it was probably the strongest Shep standalone ep this season though. I enjoyed Doppleganger, but it could've been better.

lostinspace
October 27th, 2007, 09:33 PM
Gosh, I FINALLY saw this. Was worried that my expectations (from the many many spoilers) would get in the way, but I thoroughly enjoyed the episode.

Except for the wraith scene.

WTF?! When the "restoring life" concept was introduced in Common Ground, it at least had context and was reserved only for "wraith worshippers and brothers." In Travellers, this was a poor plot device. I appreciate the attempt to show us a more complex (and even individual) side to the Wraith, but this scene just fell short, and made Shep, Larrin - and heck, even the Wraith - look really incompetent - when they were doing so well before that! Also, I guess Larrin has the ATA gene since she used the LSD?

Otherwise, I'm looking forward to more of Larrin and the Travellers. S4 is still going strong for me.

AutumnDream
October 27th, 2007, 09:37 PM
Heh, is this the "Travelers" thread, or the "bash JM who had nothing to do with this episode Thread"?

WRITTEN BY - Joseph Mallozzi & Paul Mullie



Heh, I never liked that episode. Actually, I never liked the Tollans, period.

I am kind of surprised there is something Stargate-related you don't utterly adore. :eek: Just curious, why are you estatic over the Travelers but didn't care for the Tollans? Give me the rundown.


Yup, very true ;)



to me, Larrin was the biggest detractor to the episode because in some scenes, the delivery of lines was just, well, meh, flat, uninteresting.

The lines themselves were pretty meh, flat, uninteresting too. ;)



but worse, neither shep nor larrin actually made sure he did leave! no, she's too busy putting the moves on Shep and Shep is too busy letting his, uh, other set of brains work, and well, we saw where that got him. aiee, men ;)


The writing is absolutely incredible.

Mitchell82
October 27th, 2007, 09:42 PM
I'm not going to read all the posts nor do I want to listen to the pissing and moanin by those that are just watching the show to constantly pick at every damn detail. This was a quality ep and since all five eps so far have been great this really shows that SGA still has plenty of steam left. This was sooooooooo not what I expected and loved every bit of it. Loved the Travelers ships so primitive but efective (kinda like ours but a bit more advanced), loved Larin she is sooooo someone I don't want to piss off. I loved the constant I trust you/no I don't thing it was quite realistic given the circumstances. Loved that we finally see an ancient ship that survives. as to why the weapons had to be fired from the chair well for one the ship was already in barely working order plus the fact that all the systems wernt oporational yet and mabey the weapons wernt able to be controlled on the bridge since this is the only ancient ship that I can recall having a chair platform.Loved him finally getting whumped by a woman, loved the mckay/jelous thing and the fact that we can possibly be allies. Loved the litttle backround info on Ronons gun, they arent the first we've seen with one btw. Also loved a bit more info on the Wraith reversal thing. I don't see that becoming a constant "get out of death free card" as the only reason it happend is because he got there just before he killed her and John gave him a choice. Give back what he took or die. Easy choice even for a Wraith. Another great ep *****out of *****.

Mitchell82
October 27th, 2007, 09:46 PM
Gosh, I FINALLY saw this. Was worried that my expectations (from the many many spoilers) would get in the way, but I thoroughly enjoyed the episode.

Except for the wraith scene.

WTF?! When the "restoring life" concept was introduced in Common Ground, it at least had context and was reserved only for "wraith worshippers and brothers." In Travellers, this was a poor plot device. I appreciate the attempt to show us a more complex (and even individual) side to the Wraith, but this scene just fell short, and made Shep, Larrin - and heck, even the Wraith - look really incompetent - when they were doing so well before that!
I see your point but I disagree. While it was more emotional in CG it made sense here. Sheppard knew where she was and in trouble and got there just in time and he gave him a choice give her life back or die. I thought it was a good call and not a cheap plot device.


Also, I guess Larrin has the ATA gene since she used the LSD?
Nope and she wouldn't need it since Shep intialized it. Also as a Carter fan I did miss her but this was such a great ep her absence didn't bother me, also she wasnt needed.

Mitchell82
October 27th, 2007, 09:52 PM
Heh, I never liked that episode. Actually, I never liked the Tollans, period.
I know this is OT but why?

Willow'sCat
October 27th, 2007, 10:33 PM
I think the worse thing about this episode was how the guest actor, acted the lead actor off the screen! Jill was great! I was worried having never seen her act in any other show that she was purely hired for her looks *hey it happens* but no she was the best one in the whole dam ep! (Well Hewlett/McKay was hardly in the whole dam ep :(:p).

Unfortunately Sheppard was all cliche... Kirk cliche. :cool::rolleyes: Don't get me wrong I like some innuendo, some banter of a sexual nature (hello! Capt Jack Harkness fan here!;))... but not when you are on a show that usually never has that as part of the character; and not when the character is bargaining for his life.

Sheppard was totally unaware of whether Larrin's people knew about Atlantis... she could have been keeping some info from him *gasp!* So his actions all round were as she said reckless. Funny that the powers that be are brave enough to write that, I would be ashamed that my so called lead character is not a hero but a reckless idiot. But that is just me. :cool:

I will not be re-watching this one.

Too many really bad decisions from Sheppard, no wonder he was holding stuff back from his TEAM, how bloody embarrassing for their leader to let his other head do all his thinking. :cool::rolleyes: Again. :cool: Again.

I am surprised he didn't get everyone killed.

Well not really as there would be no episode next week...:p but you know what I mean. :P

Yep Jill/Larrin was the only good thing about the episode. Well I am surprised, well maybe not as I also like Chaya.;)

SG13-NightOps
October 27th, 2007, 10:37 PM
WRITTEN BY - Joseph Mallozzi & Paul Mullie

They always bill together - It does not mean the both wrote it.
o Its something you get used to and an easy trap to fall into..
JM wrote Reunion - PM wrote Travellers.

That said, I was very under whelmed.

PG15
October 27th, 2007, 10:39 PM
WRITTEN BY - Joseph Mallozzi & Paul Mullie

Nice. But actually Paul Mullie wrote it.


I am kind of surprised there is something Stargate-related you don't utterly adore. :eek: [/spoiler]

I'll take that as a joke, since if you actually read my posts, then you see I do criticise, just not impolitely. ;) I appreciate these people's hard work even if I didn't like it.

Just curious, why are you estatic over the Travelers but didn't care for the Tollans? Give me the rundown.

Sure. It's all about the situations and main characters. IMHO, Larrin was great, while I pretty much thought Narim was boring and bland, and so was all of his Tollan cohorts (that should answer you too, Mitchell82). Also, the Tollans just seemed like your typical advanced society, while the Travellers are kind of unique in that they are on the run all the time and dwindling in numbers.

And they're not high-and-mightly, thank goodness.

rosey_angel
October 27th, 2007, 10:57 PM
i agree with most of what has been said here. this ep had great promise, but imo failed to deliver. i liked seeing the ships, both inside and out, and i liked ronons line about that it didn't matter what they were up against, they were gonna save shep, but that was about it.

i like the traveler ppl, and larrin was ok, but i was hoping she'd stay. i wasn't expecting the wraith to attack her, so it would have been a nice twist. 'cept they kicked the wraith out, hopefully, or left him wondering the ship.

all in all, i hope next weeks ep is better, this one was mostly building up to go nowhere

Redhooks
October 27th, 2007, 11:08 PM
Just another sort of minor plot hole that I noticed no one else has said, why didn't the Atlantis' jumpers pick-up the Wraith dart that had to pass close to them on its way to the space gate where they themselves came through? You would have thought with the PJ sensors at their maximum, they could not have missed the dart? I know an interception scene would have been expensive and that is why this was probably never mentioned,but what do you people think about it?

Freekzilla
October 27th, 2007, 11:24 PM
Why does everyone assume that Ronon got his weapon from the Travelers instead of the other way around? I was under the impression the Travelers are a scavenger race, not only do they scavenge ancient tech, but maybe they scavenge from culled and or abandoned planets. Don’t forget in Sateda Ronon found other guns just like his on his planet when he was being hunted by the wraith.All of the guns Ronon found on Sateda were NOT like his current gun. They were just like the ones the Genii use, IE projectile weapons. Ronon's gun could have come from the Travelers. They did seem to have more than one of them, suggesting but not confirming, that they make those types of guns. Or it's possible that a third party made those weapons and exported them to various places, including the Travelers.


Ughh...just MORE Humans. Cant they come up with an actual new Alien species? I am sick to death of Humans, I cant not stand that bloody species! Now where have I heard that before? Could it be the Romulans? Or was it the Andorians? :P


Saw him reload it in runner. He's reloaded it other times too.


I just want add I think some of my enjoyment of ep was because Sam wasn't in it. I really don't think she belongs in SGA reg basis. The parts with her in it earlier eps felt off to me. I do like Sam in SG-1 just not here. I agree that the episode was enjoyable just because Sam wasn't in it, and that she really doesn't belong in SGA at all. I disagree on one point though, I don't like her in SG-1 either. Too much of a "Goody Two Shoes" and seems to know everything about everything, and always knows how to fix/overcome any problem.


was a good episode, although as mentioned before a lil P Unbound-y but a much better version for that matter.
What I didn't like was that Sheppard kissed (again) with the "sexy alien" he does that a lot of times, and I'm jealous :sheppard:

One more thing. Travelers?! Then let's call the wraith Suckers, and the genii could be Mole people or something. They could've find out some name for a race. Even the ancients have their name; lantians, I hope they'll fix it some day, and give them a name.

The mistery of Ronon's gun has been solved so I'll give it 5/5. Although I can certainly understand that Shep might get a little "lonely", he has been in the Peggy galax for what, almost 4 years now. And being the second in command, and a Lt. Col, he won't exactly have many chances to fraternize. So it's no wonder he flirts with any hot alien chick. It's really his only outlet. But, I don't think we need to see it everytime. It gets to be sort of cliche after a while. But oh well, some people may want to see it. I guess there has to be a little something for everyone, explosions for one group, special digital effects for another group, shipping for yet another group etc.


Actually, Carl Binder sarted the whole 'Irr' thing when he wrote Irresistable. And Joe M has admitted that Irresponsible was a huge mistake. Atleast he can admit there, where most writers would just try and cover their tracks.

Why do people always think Joe is responsible for bringing Lucius into the world? Carl Binder made him.

Notice Joe Mallozzi is dedicating special blog enteries to the episodes he has written this year. Why isn't he doing it about this one? He has said before they aren't actually a team, anymore atleast. I don't understand it myself. And notice when people have brought up criticism of The Tower, Joe has said he thought Paul did a good job. Why does he refer to himself when he talks about Irresponsible, but Paul when he talks about The Tower. Go and ask on his blog about it. Unless you're one of those anti's who's scared to go on Joe's blog.;)

Seriously, the evidence is all there, if you're willing to search for it. Keep in mind I'm not 100% on this, but I am pretty sure. I have seen it said by Joe before, I wish I could remember where.I'm not so sure. They way I understand it, the writers don't "invent" the scripts from scratch on their own. I think, and I may be wrong, that ideas are bounced around, and the scripts are assigned to the writers. But that they have to come up with something within a certain set of guidelines. I also think that the whole idea of the guest star who played Lavin wasn't Carl Binder's idea. Apparently, the idea was originally Robert Cooper's, but Brad Wright and Carl Binder "spun" it. So the blame for Lucious Lavin can be spread around a lot. Although, I could have sworn that Joe M. hand a large hand in it. But I could be wrong.


needed moar carter imo. More Carter? There was none to start with in this ep. And it was a good thing. I didn't even notice she wasn't there at all, until someone pointed it out. :P


How can I put it? It's like you can turn on a light and not know the mechanics behind it. According to Larrin, their people are able to retro-engineer quite a lot of stuff, but they needed someone with the ATA gene to activate the ship. i'm sure it was explained that they were scavengers and just take what they need.

I don't remember her using that weapon on a person? Was there a scene where she did that?

Maybe not, but they had a very cool force field. :D I had a feeling that, the part of the ship was more the egineering side of the ship as opposed to the 'generational area'. As once you got out of the holding are it seemed a bit like Atlantis.

Torture has always been an effective method of extracting information. What do you do when you want answers? You break their will, their resilience until they reach a point of their own personal threshold (and everyone's is different) and use it to your advantage. It's standard interrogation techniques. How I see it is, they've been used to living/surviving on their own for what? Maybe thousands of years, reliant on their own survival skills and cunning. For those that have been living on the 'edge' they would find it very hard to broke an alliance, and i my opinion wouldn't trust anyone, unless that person offered first. But they'd have to proove themselves in the process and I think Shep did that by saving Larrin when he didn't have to.

maybe she never has seen one? She may have heard about them, or faced them in battle, but maybe not seen one up close and personal?

Actually, experts have concluded that the use of torture is not a reliable method of extracting information. I am reminded of this saying I heard once, it goes someething like this, "Resorting to violence is a sign of a desperate mind." or something like that. What I'm saying, the experts found that, at some point the victim would say anything just to stop the torture. So the information gleamed isn't very reliable. Although, I am sure there is much more to it than that. I do agree that at some point, torture would become useless.

Now, some have stated that the Larin character doesn't really come off as the leader of her people. Hmmmm. Not sure on that. Hard to judge based on so little. But, it could be, since her people are nomadic, that she's not the leader of her entire people, but the leader of a group of people. It could be that she only leads a small portion, or ships of people, and not the entire "species". After all, we did only see a few ships. Maybe there are more, with other people leading those groups. But who knows for sure. We'll find out more later on I guess. Although, I do see a trend with SGA, a lot of the leaders tend to be young-ish females and attractive. (Teyla, Keller, Chaya, the woman from "Inferno", the woman from "The Game", The girl from "The Tower", the woman from "Poisoning the Well etc.) On one hand, I'm all for it, but on the other and realisticly, it's a bit disturbing that they have to resort to such tactics to tell a story.

p-pos
October 27th, 2007, 11:30 PM
this episode was alright not great but not horrible, the weakest one of the season so far.

the wraith giving her back her life was the worst moment for me, since when are the wrath such pansies, it took away from the whole menacing foes aspect for me, by the way don't they have self destruct mechanism on their person's so dying instead of giving up is like a badge of honor.

i agree with everyone else about the lsd thing how did lauren operate it and her character was a little stale not so much intimidating then just resourceful. i know poster are calling her bad ass but all i saw was a lot of mouth and i lot of charm, i doubt that ronon would be scared of her if it was him instead of sheppard that was caught. also how do we know we can trust these people as allies.

i am confused about ronon's gun did the travellers make them and just never improved on the technology or did they take them from sateda and have an updated version of one?

why did sheppard kiss her and leave himself out there with larrin like that she did nothing to gain his trust. i would have preferred the kiss and him getting one up on her, sheppard can't be that dense well he is standing next to a pretty lady.

p-pos
October 27th, 2007, 11:37 PM
Actually, experts have concluded that the use of torture is not a reliable method of extracting information. I am reminded of this saying I heard once, it goes someething like this, "Resorting to violence is a sign of a desperate mind." or something like that. What I'm saying, the experts found that, at some point the victim would say anything just to stop the torture. So the information gleamed isn't very reliable. Although, I am sure there is much more to it than that. I do agree that at some point, torture would become useless.

.

the torture thing made me think that these people have no clue with interrogation techniques, repeating punching a man in his face is really going to get you the information that you seek. we see how good that work with sheppard telling them his name was reed richards and them believing them.

if this are nomadic people and spend most of their time in space on ships how often are they coming in contact with hostile forces which could explain why they didn't appear intimidating to me.

Willow'sCat
October 28th, 2007, 12:00 AM
i know poster are calling her bad ass but all i saw was a lot of mouth and i lot of charm, i doubt that ronon would be scared of her if it was him instead of sheppard that was caught. also how do we know we can trust these people as allies.Lets be honest most 'guest' females on SGA are either village wenches or mentally challenged ancients or out to double cross 'em.

The only older and seemingly more intelligent then your average female character on SGA was the Ancient in The Return 1/2 and she had what? 10 lines? Then it was bye bye! :cool::rolleyes: Larrin is a lot better realised as a character then the 'girl' from The Tower, the village wenches from Irresistible, Norina, Teer ... oh you name it! :P:cool:

On the allies thing...? I think that is the point. I think when we meet them again there will be double crossing! *it's a plot device!*

As for the interrogation? Seriously the whole point of the ep was to give Atlantis allies, not another enemy of course the treatment was going to be something Sheppard could handle, he gets beaten up worse by Teyla!

Sheppard is the star, you can't hurt the star, you can't break him! That just mucks up the next episode. :p:rolleyes:

Athosian Death facilitator
October 28th, 2007, 12:09 AM
What a great episode, well written-for the most part.

Well acted, Joe and Jill did a great job.

Elinor
October 28th, 2007, 12:51 AM
Well acted, Joe and Jill did a great job.

Yes...I thought they did to. What a lot of fun this episode was. I really liked the interaction between the two of them. The story ticked along at a good pace, there was action and Sheppy whump. What's not to love?!!

On an obscure (and totally off-on-tangent) sidenote, I'm very happy to see our hero, Sheppard, promoting healthy eating. Have you noticed, in quite a few episodes now, how much fruit Sheppard eats? Really, what a good role model he is for us all!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-045.gif

p-pos
October 28th, 2007, 01:28 AM
Lets be honest most 'guest' females on SGA are either village wenches or mentally challenged ancients or out to double cross 'em.

The only older and seemingly more intelligent then your average female character on SGA was the Ancient in The Return 1/2 and she had what? 10 lines? Then it was bye bye! :cool::rolleyes: Larrin is a lot better realised as a character then the 'girl' from The Tower, the village wenches from Irresistible, Norina, Teer ... oh you name it! :P:cool:

On the allies thing...? I think that is the point. I think when we meet them again there will be double crossing! *it's a plot device!*

As for the interrogation? Seriously the whole point of the ep was to give Atlantis allies, not another enemy of course the treatment was going to be something Sheppard could handle, he gets beaten up worse by Teyla!

Sheppard is the star, you can't hurt the star, you can't break him! That just mucks up the next episode. :p:rolleyes:

i get what you are saying but i am trying to understand where all this she was bad ass coming from, imo she was cocky and over confident and it worked for me in that content. the wraith flatten her in seconds and i don't think she or her people were intimidating.

she was definitely much better then the other female guest stars but she did have a different role to play. she wasn't horrible, just predictable

Merlin1701
October 28th, 2007, 01:33 AM
I have made my way through this whole thread...it getting rather long!

I produced an episode idea in season 2 for a race that lived on ships, although I would have had the Atlantis expedition take the ship!

Quite a few of the posts seem to praise the fact the ship survive, a ship with two wraith darts, drones and possibly jumpers. However let us focus on the fact that we do not have the ship!!!

Perhaps a military driven episode, similar to first strike to take the ship but earth send the Deadalus Apollo and Pheonix along with the Tria (Which I hope is renamed and possibly commanded by O’neill or Hammond.)

arjumand
October 28th, 2007, 02:57 AM
1. Yeah, he basically blamed everyone and everything but himself and his own own script.

2. Like I said, teenage boys are writing the episodes.

3. I wrote this after Adrift aired:

Yeah, Atlantis is supposed to be a dark(ish?) show. The tone of the show was dark. We don't need that goofy crap in the season premiere. Scoring it with the pizzicato strings "funny theme" does not make it humorous. Sorry, sound editor guy, that is just not cool.


RE. the music: wow, I'm not the only one! I never went through the thread for Adrift, but that is one of the things that tend to annoy me about SGA, the heavy-handed TIEM FOR JOAKS NAO music; if it's funny, it'll stand on its own - and, for the record, John being recaptured by the Travellers was not funny, at least not to me. I thought it was incredibly dumb, on John's part, and I really expected him to go to the control chair and give his own ultimatum, for a change. Apparently the upstairs brain wasn't functioning this episode.

Having watched Resident Evil: Apocalypse recently, I realise that I actually don't mind when things are written FOR twelve-year old boys, it's when the 12-year olds are doing the writing that I get annoyed. In case it's not clear, it's the incessant use of cliches that annoys me, esp. the sexy villainess using her maximum boobage to get her way.

I LOVED Doppelganger, which was derivative, you say? Well, not really: Doppelganger was using an old SF/Fantasy trope, and I love it when these are reinterpreted (am a big fan of Pastiche). But the old "women are always sexy, men are stupid when faced with the sexy" cliche is both sexist and annoying, and I wish they'd cut it out.

In case it's not clear (do I have to use the SPARKLY CAPITALS to spell it out?) I am a fan of SGA and SEASON FOUR, otherwise I'd be posting in another thread. I don't feel the writing has been terrible, otherwise I would have stopped watching at the season premiere.
Just go easy on the cliches, guys. And lose the soundtrack - one of the most critically-praised Buffy eps ever made had no background music at all, only fx noises, try it once!

Pegasus_SGA
October 28th, 2007, 03:21 AM
All of the guns Ronon found on Sateda were NOT like his current gun. They were just like the ones the Genii use, IE projectile weapons. Ronon's gun could have come from the Travelers. They did seem to have more than one of them, suggesting but not confirming, that they make those types of guns. Or it's possible that a third party made those weapons and exported them to various places, including the Travelers.

I don't think the guns came from the Travelers as when Shep asked larrin for more she said there were none. So maybe she picked it up on her travels?



I agree that the episode was enjoyable just because Sam wasn't in it, and that she really doesn't belong in SGA at all. I disagree on one point though, I don't like her in SG-1 either. Too much of a "Goody Two Shoes" and seems to know everything about everything, and always knows how to fix/overcome any problem.

See I actually missed having a leader there, even if it was just a mention, it just felt a bit... I don't off? So for me, I missed Sam being there, even if it was just a quick scene or Rodney saying that Sam was going to meet them in the 'gate room or something.



Although I can certainly understand that Shep might get a little "lonely", he has been in the Peggy galax for what, almost 4 years now. And being the second in command, and a Lt. Col, he won't exactly have many chances to fraternize. So it's no wonder he flirts with any hot alien chick. It's really his only outlet. But, I don't think we need to see it everytime. It gets to be sort of cliche after a while. But oh well, some people may want to see it. I guess there has to be a little something for everyone, explosions for one group, special digital effects for another group, shipping for yet another group etc.


I agree it can get cliche, hooking up with all the 'babe's of the week' and in every episode. Thankfully that's not been the case! For the record, flirting does not equal bedding. Women have been using their 'feminine wiles to get what they want for years. This time is no different. Weir actually did the same in The Return when she was distracting Dr Lee. ;)



Actually, experts have concluded that the use of torture is not a reliable method of extracting information. I am reminded of this saying I heard once, it goes someething like this, "Resorting to violence is a sign of a desperate mind." or something like that. What I'm saying, the experts found that, at some point the victim would say anything just to stop the torture. So the information gleamed isn't very reliable. Although, I am sure there is much more to it than that. I do agree that at some point, torture would become useless.

Speaking from experience, I disagree. Torture is a very reliable method of torture, depending on what method is used and there are literally hundreds of variations that can be applied, and if you have a very good interrogater then they're usually the best placed to ascertain the best method of extracting information. The purpose is to break the individual's will and over prolonged periods of time it can be very effective. Messing with someone's mind is very a very effective tool. But with Travelers, I didn't see it as them wanting to break Shep's will, they just needed him to make things work, they weren't after intelligence, they just wanted to get into his jeans genes. ;) I can completely understand that. :P


Now, some have stated that the Larin character doesn't really come off as the leader of her people. Hmmmm. Not sure on that. Hard to judge based on so little. But, it could be, since her people are nomadic, that she's not the leader of her entire people, but the leader of a group of people. It could be that she only leads a small portion, or ships of people, and not the entire "species". After all, we did only see a few ships. Maybe there are more, with other people leading those groups. But who knows for sure. We'll find out more later on I guess. Although, I do see a trend with SGA, a lot of the leaders tend to be young-ish females and attractive. (Teyla, Keller, Chaya, the woman from "Inferno", the woman from "The Game", The girl from "The Tower", the woman from "Poisoning the Well etc.) On one hand, I'm all for it, but on the other and realisticly, it's a bit disturbing that they have to resort to such tactics to tell a story.

Agreed. Maybe it would have been helpful to see the people that she's the leader of? (Damn time constraints) Maybe then we'd have been able to see where she's coming from and what she's had to deal with so far. Words can only take you so far, so for me, i'd have liked to have seen the conditions they lived in, what they went through to get to this point, and why she was such a hard ass. From the looks of the fleet, they're certainly more than capable of tipping the balance, and they seem more co-ordinated than the the Genni were.... I miss the Gennii though... *sniff* and Kolya.... :(

From my perspective, they need a good balance of the women, Teyla is a very good example of how a leader should be, and she kicks ass with the best of them. I think her 'model' is a good one that can be tweaked either side... if that makes sense? And i'm looking forward to her 'arc', and tbh i'd rather see that than the two-dimensional busty babes.


the torture thing made me think that these people have no clue with interrogation techniques, repeating punching a man in his face is really going to get you the information that you seek. we see how good that work with sheppard telling them his name was reed richards and them believing them.

if this are nomadic people and spend most of their time in space on ships how often are they coming in contact with hostile forces which could explain why they didn't appear intimidating to me.

I agree. Although Larrin said she got rid of the last person, I didn't quite believe that she was that 'hard' or 'coldblooded' so that didn't really pull it off for me. They're not trained interrogators from what we've seen, so their methods are not going to be very effective. And as I said to Freek above, it does depend on the techniques used and knowing your 'subject'. :lol:

wolverine_nl
October 28th, 2007, 03:58 AM
Loved the ep, only one thing is bugging me,

In another Episode, Lorne and Zelenka were flying an Aurora class ship and fired the drones (what it seems) from a controlpanel on the bridge, or Zelenka bypassed the chair there, but they didn't mention relaying weaponscontrols to the bridge, and in this episode Shep needs the chair to fire of the drones :mckay:

expendable_crewman
October 28th, 2007, 04:06 AM
I really liked this ep, I see the similarities with Prometheus Unbound but there are so many differences that I think its stupid to call it a copy of it.

I agree.

Prometheus Unbound takes place in the Stargate universe, it's on a ship, and there's a female who keeps Daniel tied up after he manages to stay on board when everyone was supposed to get ringed to another ship.

The b-plot is about getting the Goa'uld ship to keep the ringed people alive.

The a-plot is Vala trying to get an Earth-built ship to a buyer.

Travelers has Sheppard abducted for his Ancient gene and forced to initialize an Ancient warship. He phones home, some Wraith listen in, and he and the leader of his kidnappers (sort of) pair up to deal with that when they are not dealing with will/won't he do what the kidnappers want, and can he/can't he save himself while doing it because it's fairly obvious once they show him the Ancient ship and tell him they see him as nothing better than an interface they will never let him go.

The b-plot is the rescue ... In this case, it's the thought that counts. And what a grand thought.

Multiple jumpers, hmm.

One of the things I like about season four is the way it's slanting toward reality. All those times they threw one Jumper at a problem when they should have launched several ... In the past, they couldn't, I know, but because the constraints came from out-of-universe, as in budgets, etc., the viewer just had to let it go. A real rescue attempt looks like the one we saw in Travelers: multiple security teams, the 2IC with the uber-serious face. Lol, I love Lorne more and more. He got me this time with the way he answered Ronon's uber-serious question. And he looks very bumbed when the alien fleet + the Unnamed Lantean Warship wink into hyperspace, with (or so he thought) Sheppard.

If we're getting the obvious detail that Ronon's gun is powered by something, I say, It's about time. These are the kinds of things I expect to see by the time a series is in its fourth season. Let's bring out the little stuff. I never minded that Ronon mostly reloaded off-screen but I never doubted that he reloaded. If Ronon had an infinite power source for his energy pistol, somebody would have swiped it and adapted the power crystal technology for something a little more useful, like a shield generator.

The Wraith are different and Sheppard thinks now before dropping them indiscriminately? Hmm, I'm enjoying this road. I want to see the Wraith as individuals with individual history with the expedition. After last year's stories, I figured the show was doing away with the black-and-white brush and maybe giving the viewer something meatier to think about. I hope I'm right.


Since they kidnapped him, it was fair game. But Sheppard was too busy trying the Kirking again and lost the damn ship. My God, he needs to be shot!

Some saw Sheppard's dealings with Larrin as motivated by her gender. Well, okay. Take your Stargate as you find it. I'm sure the Wraith he let fly away (so the Wraith could talk about the existence of a functioning Ancient warship) had to do with his repressed interest in Wraith physiology and nothing to do with his making a deal.


The rights? They started of on the bad side, just because they're led by a woman doesn't mean they can get away with everything, Sheppard should've locked her up and waited for backup, that would've been the most logical thing to do.

Sheppard did lock her up to wait for backup. She blasted her way out the door. After the Wraith scene, if he felt kinship with her rather than mistrust, he can be faulted for that. I'm sure that was due soley to her portions and had nothing to do with a shared experience, which, from his POV, was rather intense. I have a hard time picturing him stunning outright a male character who was leaning on him after getting the double whammy of a feeding and a restoral. The kiss might not have happened but then he didn't kiss Larrin. She kissed him. Kiss or no kiss, unless Sheppard stunned the person he was helping off the floor right away, he was going to lose his stunner and (in turn) get stunned.


another side issue why are leaders of most pegasus planets/ groups female
i bet by season five wier will be leading the replicators

Good question. Maybe they're saying the Pegasus is something like Earth, where the consensus is (at least where I'm from) a person's gender isn't supposed to matter.

Prion, so true. I thought the same thing. That Wraith was barely gone before Larrin went for the stunner. Some recon might have been in order.


Just another sort of minor plot hole that I noticed no one else has said, why didn't the Atlantis' jumpers pick-up the Wraith dart that had to pass close to them on its way to the space gate where they themselves came through?

Good catch, Redhooks.



Ruffles, Peg SGA, lol, I can't green you, must spread more love, but I tried!

Alipeeps
October 28th, 2007, 04:21 AM
maybe she never has seen one? She may have heard about them, or faced them in battle, but maybe not seen one up close and personal?

That was my thought. The way they live their lives in designed to avoid the Wraith. It's entirely probable she's never actually been face to face with one before.


on the gun burning metal but not people it is probably a stun only version of ronans and is possibly less efficiant.


Ronon's gun has stun and kill settings. It makes sense to assume that the same gun was used by Sheppard on stun to stun the Travelers on the bridge and on kill setting by Larrin to melt through the wall and again by Sheppard to kill the Wraith.



Unfortunately Sheppard was all cliche... Kirk cliche. :cool::rolleyes: Don't get me wrong I like some innuendo, some banter of a sexual nature (hello! Capt Jack Harkness fan here!;))... but not when you are on a show that usually never has that as part of the character; and not when the character is bargaining for his life.

Too many really bad decisions from Sheppard, no wonder he was holding stuff back from his TEAM, how bloody embarrassing for their leader to let his other head do all his thinking. :cool::rolleyes: Again. :cool: Again.


I admit to being a little confused here. You seem to be saying that you take issue with the "kirking" because this is never usually part of the character but then you're also claiming Sheppard was "thinking with his other head" again.


I don't think the guns came from the Travelers as when Shep asked larrin for more she said there were none. So maybe she picked it up on her travels?


I thought she meant she hadn't got any more charges for the gun with her. There may have been more back on the Traveler ships...

Inty
October 28th, 2007, 05:00 AM
I loved the episode. And IMHO it wasn't that unoriginal... The fact that John was predictable is because we know him already... That's just the kind of guy he is. The thing that I definetely didn't see coming was:

John: And we don't have any weapons.
Hot chick: We have the drones.
John: I doubt the drones are gonna help with a bunch of wraith in the middle of the ship.
Hot chick: What if they weren't in the middle?

That was rather original I guess... I also loved the whole morse code thing and the part during dinner. And the Reed Richards reference was amusing. And I even liked the cheap sex jokes.

Ok there were some parts that I saw coming from a mile away, but hey that's what you get for watching to much Sci-Fi. I loved the fact that they introduced a new race, cause there is only a few worth mentioning so far in the PG. I would give it a 8,5/10.

Linzi
October 28th, 2007, 05:28 AM
I think the worse thing about this episode was how the guest actor, acted the lead actor off the screen! Jill was great!

Yeah, sorry, I'm not agreeing with you here... Jill was great, but, honestly, no way is she in Flanigan's league at the moment.




I was worried having never seen her act in any other show that she was purely hired for her looks *hey it happens* but no she was the best one in the whole dam ep! (Well Hewlett/McKay was hardly in the whole dam ep :(:p).

Again, I'm not with you here, though I did think the chemistry between Larrin and Sheppard was great. Though I did miss the team, it actually was refreshing not to have tonnes of McKay.




Unfortunately Sheppard was all cliche... Kirk cliche. :cool::rolleyes: Don't get me wrong I like some innuendo, some banter of a sexual nature (hello! Capt Jack Harkness fan here!;))... but not when you are on a show that usually never has that as part of the character; and not when the character is bargaining for his life.

Again, Kirk? Yeah okaaaaaay, whatever :rolleyes: . As for you liking sexual innuendo and not seeing it as part of Sheppard's character? I agree, it doesn't seem to be part of Sheppard and it wasn't here, was it? Why? Because Sheppard wasn't the one giving out the innuendo, was he? It was Larrin, and that seems very much who SHE is... So, yeah, surprise surprise I have no idea what you're talking about here...



Sheppard was totally unaware of whether Larrin's people knew about Atlantis... she could have been keeping some info from him *gasp!* So his actions all round were as she said reckless. Funny that the powers that be are brave enough to write that, I would be ashamed that my so called lead character is not a hero but a reckless idiot. But that is just me. :cool:


Yeah, that's just you ;)



I will not be re-watching this one.

Too many really bad decisions from Sheppard, no wonder he was holding stuff back from his TEAM, how bloody embarrassing for their leader to let his other head do all his thinking. :cool::rolleyes: Again. :cool: Again.

Sheppard has two heads? Well at least he didn't want to be captured by the sexy alien. As he said it wasn't exactly a thrilling experience for him. Perhaps next time McKay can be captured by Larrin? It'd be interesting to see which head he uses whilst being imprisoned by her. Though I have a pretty good idea ;)



I am surprised he didn't get everyone killed.


I'm not...


Well not really as there would be no episode next week...:p but you know what I mean. :P

Yep Jill/Larrin was the only good thing about the episode. Well I am surprised, well maybe not as I also like Chaya.;)

Hmmm, I disagree again. What a surprise! :eek:


Edit: I'm interested in Ronon's style of gun. I know it's been discussed here already, but is the general consensus that the Travelers invented the gun, or that they got the technology from elsewhere?

MechaThor
October 28th, 2007, 05:42 AM
I was not very happy with this episode especailly after watching the excelent epsiode last week. And thats a shame as it looked to be one of the best episodes i was waiting for.

There are a few things I did NOT like!

1. The leader of the Travelers did not seem very strong (as a leader) Its not beacuse she was a woman as we have seen many Strong female leaders over the years. Like Adria, Weir and the Wraith queens. But she, luara or whatever her name was, was not great. She was HOT but not strong! When she told Sheppard at the dinner table "I would will not hesitate to blow you into space" I did not belive the face that she would and has kill people like that b4!

2. The Travelers Ships were too small! When we 1rst heard about them we where told they lived in a giant (some big word beginning with G) ship. But their ships looked nothing like how I pictured them and looked more like the background ships from Sg-1s "Space Race". I was hoping for some massive scrap metel looking mothership type thing.

3. Not enough "lets look for Sheppard because we care about him stuff" Instead it was like:
"we will never find him... oh wait there he is, lets go get him....... oh no we've lost him again........ No wait sorry my bad his still their... lets all go home and eat steak!"

But don't get me wrong I shill enjoyed the epsiode and the Travelers do seem kinda cool and intresting (would have been better if they where Aliens however).

Some of my gd points are:
1. "I am sure i am not the 1rst woman to tell you not to shoot too early" LOL
2. Sheapprd letting the Wraith live. That was a nice touch. Maybe hinting on his "respect" for one in "Common Ground"?
3. Finding out where Ronons gun is from.
4. Little hints about technology facts, the wraith vs Replicators 2.0 and where the series may be heading!

I would also like to note: There was no Sam in this ep.

s09119
October 28th, 2007, 05:50 AM
My only complaint for Travelers is that we never actually SAW any Travelers! The only ones we got to see were a few guards and Lorrin.

I was really hoping to see a good deal of these people, to see how they live and work, to see how they feel about the outside universe. I wanted to get into their heads and see the fear they must all have.

But we didn't. Instead we got 3 of them for the majority of the episode... oh well.

Linzi
October 28th, 2007, 05:50 AM
I was not very happy with this episode especailly after watching the excelent epsiode last week. And thats a shame as it looked to be one of the best episodes i was waiting for.

There are a few things I did NOT like!

1. The leader of the Travelers did not seem very strong (as a leader) Its not beacuse she was a woman as we have seen many Strong female leaders over the years. Like Adria, Weir and the Wraith queens. But she, luara or whatever her name was, was not great. She was HOT but not strong! When she told Sheppard at the dinner table "I would will not hesitate to blow you into space" I did not belive the face that she would and has kill people like that b4!

2. The Travelers Ships were too small! When we 1rst heard about them we where told they lived in a giant (some big word beginning with G) ship. But their ships looked nothing like how I pictured them and looked more like the background ships from Sg-1s "Space Race". I was hoping for some massive scrap metel looking mothership type thing.

3. Not enough "lets look for Sheppard because we care about him stuff" Instead it was like:
"we will never find him... oh wait there he is, lets go get him....... oh no we've lost him again........ No wait sorry my bad his still their... lets all go home and eat steak!"

But don't get me wrong I shill enjoyed the epsiode and the Travelers do seem kinda cool and intresting (would have been better if they where Aliens however).

Some of my gd points are:
1. "I am sure i am not the 1rst woman to tell you not to shoot too early" LOL
2. Sheapprd letting the Wraith live. That was a nice touch. Maybe hinting on his "respect" for one in "Common Ground"?
3. Finding out where Ronons gun is from.
4. Little hints about technology facts, the wraith vs Replicators 2.0 and where the series may be heading!

I would also like to note: There was no Sam in this ep.
I see your point about there not being a great amount of caring or concern shown by the team here, perhaps. I felt, as usual, that the episode ran out of time to elaborate about how they felt. I really don't know why that is. Why can't little things like that be fitted in? Hmmm, so, ok, I don't know really why :lol:

I do think the fact that the team had 5 jumpers out searching for Sheppard showed they were mounting a serious rescue, and I do think the team and Lorne looked upset when the Travelers ships jumped into hyperspace, but I didn't really get a sense of urgency from them. Maybe they were just surprised the ships suddenly left? And, honestly, perhaps they just didn't know what to do next?

I can see what you mean though. Then again, how long had Sheppard been missing? Was it just hours, and not days? I'm presuming it was a day at the most?

I was a little disappointed not to learn more about the Travelers ships, but I'm guessing that time was an issue here again, especially as most of the episode took place on the Aurora class ship.


I did think Larrin was a strong leader though. She was feisty and pretty ruthless, but not cruel. She seemed to be a person determined to do the best for her people, and not caring much how she got what she wanted, but I felt she had a human streak, and had some compassion too.

MechaThor
October 28th, 2007, 05:59 AM
I did think Larrin was a strong leader though. She was feisty and pretty ruthless, but not cruel. She seemed to be a person determined to do the best for her people, and not caring much how she got what she wanted, but I felt she had a human streak, and had some compassion too.

Fair point!

Maybe it just depends on the person or what we all had in are heads as we went into this episode. I just felt the Travelers would be Bigger, More Gritty, with ships even more falling apart like Firefly and red Dwarf. and alot more meaner and hostil in the way they treat people. Kinda like Evil version of Han Solo and Chewie in the Falcon. But Time will tell how they develope and what the rest of their felt/people look and act like.
Red Dwarf (the ship) is also a good exsample of what i was exspecting their ships too look like. I figured they would have just ONE Massive Mothership with their entier people/culture on it then smaller scout and battle ships.

siXbrownSnakes2
October 28th, 2007, 06:29 AM
Sure. It's all about the situations and main characters. IMHO, Larrin was great, while I pretty much thought Narim was boring and bland, and so was all of his Tollan cohorts (that should answer you too, Mitchell82). Also, the Tollans just seemed like your typical advanced society, while the Travellers are kind of unique in that they are on the run all the time and dwindling in numbers.

And they're not high-and-mightly, thank goodness.

I do like the Travelers concept though and I didn't mind Larrin, I just felt the writers could have done a lot more with this episode. And the same for Adrift and Lifeline as well (even though Reunion was predictable, I still really enjoyed it I guess).

I guess what I'm trying to say is ever since JM/PM have become showrunners, I haven't seen that big bang episode (besides Sateda, but that was done entirely by RCC) that makes everyone go "WOW!"

I still watch, though, and I will still continue to watch. I just think a lot of episodes have had great plot ideas but are sort of taken down a bit by bad writing and execution. I have high hopes for the rest of season 4.

BerrySciFi
October 28th, 2007, 07:08 AM
I agree with Linzi. I thought Larrin made a great leader. She was strong and calculating. And Shep is not the first man to get manipulated by a strong, intelligent woman with an agenda! I think Larrin would make for a dangerous enemy, or an ally that could never be completely trusted. I think this will make for some great stories later on this season. And in Shep's defense, he just saved her life and obviously felt that he had established the basis for some trust. Normally, when you save a person's life they don't shoot you in return! Ultimately, Shep's actions DID establish some goodwill between Atlantis and the Travelers. Great job Shep! I also like Mensa-Shep MUCH more than dumbed-down-Shep. (He knew how to fix The Chair)! And happy-McKay rocks! I LOVE when McKay nails Shep on the Shep-as-Kirk thing (or whatever you want to call it), while Ronan sits there smiling!

kymeric
October 28th, 2007, 07:11 AM
I enjoyed this episode. I think the travelers are pretty interesting and a welcome change.

Strange how the Wraith were willing to risk blowing up a Lantian warship - even firing upon the ship when the shields were down - they could at least gleam more efficient hyperdrives by studying the ships engines.

The drones were, as always, fantastic.

At least one of the auroras weve seen only had crappy interplanetary hyperdrives (The Aurora) the trias were busted before we saw it and the orion only travelled a distance equal to what the wraith travelled (and lagged considerably behing the daedalous)

There probably wasnt anything to learn from that ancient ship, but note they did just shoot off the bridge and board it.

kymeric
October 28th, 2007, 07:13 AM
Do you imagine there is some kind of relationship between the travellers and the genii? Afterall the genii are the preeminant native human power in the galaxy. It would make sense theyve run across eachother in the past.

MechaThor
October 28th, 2007, 07:32 AM
I guess what I'm trying to say is ever since JM/PM have become showrunners, I haven't seen that big bang episode (besides Sateda, but that was done entirely by RCC) that makes everyone go "WOW!"

Last weeks epsiode "Dooplegenger" made me go "WOW!" and I felt it was the biggest bang epsiode since "Sateda" and even bigger than alot of recent SG-1 episodes. Also the Astaroid feild scenes made me go "WOW!" in "Adrift".

"WOW!"


Do you imagine there is some kind of relationship between the travellers and the genii? Afterall the genii are the preeminant native human power in the galaxy. It would make sense theyve run across eachother in the past.

That would be cool. I am not too keen on the Genii but having them bitter towards the Travelers or something would be cool. Still genii add Trevelers = Too any Human bad guys! ARGH! there4 one should kill the other!

Linzi
October 28th, 2007, 07:46 AM
Fair point!

Maybe it just depends on the person or what we all had in are heads as we went into this episode. I just felt the Travelers would be Bigger, More Gritty, with ships even more falling apart like Firefly and red Dwarf. and alot more meaner and hostil in the way they treat people. Kinda like Evil version of Han Solo and Chewie in the Falcon. But Time will tell how they develope and what the rest of their felt/people look and act like.
Red Dwarf (the ship) is also a good exsample of what i was exspecting their ships too look like. I figured they would have just ONE Massive Mothership with their entier people/culture on it then smaller scout and battle ships.
I agree I'd like to have seen the Travelers as bigger and more gritty - in the future I hope we see more of them too, not just Larrin, but others too. I'd also like to have seen more of their ship(s). They looked in a pretty run down state, but I'd agree we didn't see much of them to really be sure of that. I didn't realise they had more than one ship either, so that was a surprise to me. I really feel the Travelers could be an interesting ally, and I really hope we'll learn more about them in season 5.

I agree with Linzi. I thought Larrin made a great leader. She was strong and calculating. And Shep is not the first man to get manipulated by a strong, intelligent woman with an agenda! I think Larrin would make for a dangerous enemy, or an ally that could never be completely trusted. I think this will make for some great stories later on this season. And in Shep's defense, he just saved her life and obviously felt that he had established the basis for some trust. Normally, when you save a person's life they don't shoot you in return! Ultimately, Shep's actions DID establish some goodwill between Atlantis and the Travelers. Great job Shep! I also like Mensa-Shep MUCH more than dumbed-down-Shep. (He knew how to fix The Chair)! And happy-McKay rocks! I LOVE when McKay nails Shep on the Shep-as-Kirk thing (or whatever you want to call it), while Ronan sits there smiling!
I think Sheppard did trust Larrin after he saved her, and he was taken aback by her devious nature. I guess that makes Sheppard a bit naive, but I rather like that. I think she underestimated him too, so I think they matched each other quite well here.

I also think it's a good point that thanks to Sheppard Atlantis now has an ally; a technologically advanced one, who could really help in the battle against the wraith. I also agree with you about mensa and not dumbed-down Sheppard. The man is smart; let's not forget that please, PTB :)

I thought it was hysterical that McKay realised that Larrin was 'hot'. Poor McKay. Maybe one day he'll get his wish and be captured by a beautiful woman! I think one thing Shep and McKay have in common, is that they both appreciate a good looking woman. Good for them! :)

Do you imagine there is some kind of relationship between the travellers and the genii? Afterall the genii are the preeminant native human power in the galaxy. It would make sense theyve run across eachother in the past.
Hmmm, interesting point here. I'm sure the Travelers must have had some interaction with the Genii.

Last weeks epsiode "Dooplegenger" and me go "WOW!" and I felt it was the biggest bang epsiode since "Sateda" and even bigger than alot of recent SG-1 episodes. Also the Astaroid feild scenes made me go "WOW!" in "Adrift".

"WOW!"



That would be cool. I am not too keen on the Genii but having them bitter towards the Travelers or something would be cool. Still genii add Trevelers = Too any Human bad guys! ARGH! there4 one should kill the other!

DG made me go wow too. As did Adrift and Lifeline. Did Reunion and Travelers make me go wow in the same way? Nope. But I thought they were strong episodes. I like Travelers more than Reunion, but that's just the nature of the storytelling here, and I prefer the action in Travelers, and I'm a big Shep fan too! :lol: I did adore Travelers, but DG packed more of an emotional punch for me, as did Adrift. They were different types of episodes, and I'm good with that :)

MechaThor
October 28th, 2007, 07:57 AM
DG made me go wow too. As did Adrift and Lifeline. Did Reunion and Travelers make me go wow in the same way? Nope. But I thought they were strong episodes. I like Travelers more than Reunion, but that's just the nature of the storytelling here, and I prefer the action in Travelers, and I'm a big Shep fan too! :lol: I did adore Travelers, but DG packed more of an emotional punch for me, as did Adrift. They were different types of episodes, and I'm good with that :)

I think DG and Adrift "packed more of an emotional punch" and had more "WOW!" factor because (for me) they seemed darker! Alot darker compaired to the last few series (of both shows). They just had taht little diffrent in mood, ligthing and story which took them out of the norm (for Atlantis) adding that wow punch.

While Reunion and travelers still had some "New-Style" Atlantis series 4 mood too them but they where more like the standard format epsiodes we have come to known and love since "Children of the Gods". There4 having less inital impact and "WOW!".

Linzi
October 28th, 2007, 08:09 AM
I think DG and Adrift "packed more of an emotional punch" and had more "WOW!" factor because (for me) they seemed darker! Alot darker compaired to the last few series (of both shows). They just had taht little diffrent in mood, ligthing and story which took them out of the norm (for Atlantis) adding that wow punch.

While Reunion and travelers still had some "New-Style" Atlantis series 4 mood too them but they where more like the standard format epsiodes we have come to known and love since "Children of the Gods". There4 having less inital impact and "WOW!".
Yep, I agree with you there. I like dark, and agree those episodes you mention were darker than usual. Travelers was such a fun episode for me, but it wasn't that dark really - other than Larrin having Sheppard beaten up for information, that was pretty dark, and I can't deny I loved that! :o. I don't expect all the episodes to be dark and serious though, so I'm ok with that. Travelers did live up to the hype for me, and actually it exceeded my expectations. I had lowered my expectations somewhat, as I thought I was getting a little carried away with them. Now I've watched Travelers several times, I appreciate it even more than I did initially.

I also must mention Joel Goldsmith's score, which I forgot to do previously. I thought it was really fantastic. :)

tombraider
October 28th, 2007, 08:40 AM
I am glad I am not the only one who does not think this episode was great. For me it was the weakest, the most boring, embarrasing and predictable so far. Unlike all the previous ones, I have not had the urge to rewatch it.
I can see some similarities between Prometeus Unbound and the Travelers. Sexy chick in black kicks ass. However PU was meant to be funny and it was. Both Claudia Black and Michael Shanks have great comic timing and delivery. Having funny script helps too. Which sadly was not the case with Travelers. I know that it still did the job of introduction of the new race. But is some ingenuity or at least a shadow of a plot twist too much to ask? The main trait of the episode was that it happened to be predictable as hell.
Jill Wagner was nice to look at, but I do hope her acting will get better as well as the scriptwriting for her.
So far I would rate the episodes as following:
Lifeline - best, great twist !
Reunion - second best, great characters, development for Ronon.
Adrift - good tension builder
Doppelganger - ok, a bit of showcase for Shep, Sam easing in the role of a leader
The Travelers - weak. Something has to really suck to beat this one to the worst episode for me.

I am looking forward to the next week's spoof/spin on Memento. I think it is a great idea, it makes sense to have some kind of virus/sickness on the new planet. It was picked almost randomly, there's bound to be something besides snakelike creatures not agreeble with humans.

:vortex04:

Ruffles
October 28th, 2007, 08:45 AM
Sheppard specifically said to Col. Everett in The Siege, Pt.2 that it wouldn't do him any good to have the LSD, because he needed the gene to operate it. Then Everett said, "I got the gene innoculation too" which allowed him to use it. A one or two sentence statement that this LSD was different or just Larrin grabing it and Sheppard being surprised that it worked for her with him saying something about it was different then the other ones he has encountered would have sufficed for me.

Agreeing with you here. That's the scene I was remembering too when she was using the LSD. I suppose it could have been an upgraded model.... ;)


I agree. Sheppard was kinda stupid. Once the Wraith had gone, her should have stunned her and started to repair the ship's hyperdrives. Or at least contacted Mckay. The only thing I don't like about the gun belonging to the Travelers is that its kinda out of place. It doesn't really gel with their style.
I am also annoyed by the fact that, one, there are no fully functional Ancient ships out there. second, why does every one (except for the Orion) have to be drifting out in space, with less than 50% power? can't there be an Ancient ship that is almost completed and fully functional? Especially since the asurans have ships now.

Perhaps because the ships have been adrift for 10,000 years while the Asurans are actively using theirs.


Just another sort of minor plot hole that I noticed no one else has said, why didn't the Atlantis' jumpers pick-up the Wraith dart that had to pass close to them on its way to the space gate where they themselves came through? You would have thought with the PJ sensors at their maximum, they could not have missed the dart? I know an interception scene would have been expensive and that is why this was probably never mentioned,but what do you people think about it?

*giggle* Good point. Who knows? Maybe the missing scene is Lorne blowing the dart to hell as it goes by.


the wraith giving her back her life was the worst moment for me, since when are the wrath such pansies, it took away from the whole menacing foes aspect for me, by the way don't they have self destruct mechanism on their person's so dying instead of giving up is like a badge of honor.

I think this Wraith was a little different. He was shown to be smarter than the others by not falling for Larrin's ruse. He could have self-destructed (do the warriors do that or just the drones?) or fought back. But he was smart enough to realize he was at a distinct disadvantage (at least he thought so). He could either do what Sheppard asked or die. Sheppard might still kill him, but he was willing to take the chance. He also didn't know if there were other people on board.

I think the Wraith walking away proved him to be an intelligent adversary rather than a pansy.


Ruffles, Peg SGA, lol, I can't green you, must spread more love, but I tried!

*waves* Good to see you. Loved all your thoughts here.


I think DG and Adrift "packed more of an emotional punch" and had more "WOW!" factor because (for me) they seemed darker! Alot darker compaired to the last few series (of both shows). They just had taht little diffrent in mood, ligthing and story which took them out of the norm (for Atlantis) adding that wow punch.

While Reunion and travelers still had some "New-Style" Atlantis series 4 mood too them but they where more like the standard format epsiodes we have come to known and love since "Children of the Gods". There4 having less inital impact and "WOW!".

I like the really dark stories, but I also like the snarky action-filled ones as well. If I wanted all dark, I would watch BSG (oh, yeah, I do). My least favorite eps are typically the light-hearted silly ones (with some major exceptions).

I much prefer consistency in having solidly written enjoyable stories. And I usually find something in each ep that really wows me. I have in every ep so far this season.

scififreak23
October 28th, 2007, 09:17 AM
i enjoyed this episode, it wasn't the best of the season though. I don't see any similarties between promethus unbound and travelers. Seriously, a women on a ship and sheppard captured makes it similar to pu?Are you kidding me?I think since sam came onboard everyone is now comparing sga to sg-1 even when they don't have to. Nothing in this episode is a copy of pu. Sorry. Larrin was good but she and sheppard didn't have all that great of a chemistry. I think that's what the episode lacked for me.The scene that i enjoyed the most was sheppard in the room and the force shield activation and then the doors opening up into outerspace. There are few moment in sga that we get to see sheppard really scared and this was one of those moments and i thoroughly enjoyed it.:)

Mitchell82
October 28th, 2007, 10:06 AM
I agree I'd like to have seen the Travelers as bigger and more gritty - in the future I hope we see more of them too, not just Larrin, but others too. I'd also like to have seen more of their ship(s). They looked in a pretty run down state, but I'd agree we didn't see much of them to really be sure of that. I didn't realise they had more than one ship either, so that was a surprise to me. I really feel the Travelers could be an interesting ally, and I really hope we'll learn more about them in season 5.
Actually I felt they were quite gritty. They had no compassion,ability to trust and extremely willing to tourture and kill. I loved how Larrin was such a hard ass and willing to do whatever it took to complete her task. I too hope to see more and believe she and her people can be a great ally.


I think Sheppard did trust Larrin after he saved her, and he was taken aback by her devious nature. I guess that makes Sheppard a bit naive, but I rather like that. I think she underestimated him too, so I think they matched each other quite well here.
I wouldn't say naive I'd say compassionate because he believes her about why she was doing it. I see why some comapare it to Prometheus Unbound however the big difference here is that she is telling the truth. I think they both underestimated each other and I loved their on screen chemistry.


I also think it's a good point that thanks to Sheppard Atlantis now has an ally; a technologically advanced one, who could really help in the battle against the wraith. I also agree with you about mensa and not dumbed-down Sheppard. The man is smart; let's not forget that please, PTB :)
Agreed but I don't feel they dumbed down Shep in this ep he wasn't dumb just caught off guard.


I thought it was hysterical that McKay realised that Larrin was 'hot'. Poor McKay. Maybe one day he'll get his wish and be captured by a beautiful woman! I think one thing Shep and McKay have in common, is that they both appreciate a good looking woman. Good for them! :)
I loved that too poor Mckay.:mckay:


Hmmm, interesting point here. I'm sure the Travelers must have had some interaction with the Genii.
That is a good point it'd be quite unlikely that they didn't run in to them so I wonder if they are friends or enemies.



DG made me go wow too. As did Adrift and Lifeline. Did Reunion and Travelers make me go wow in the same way? Nope. But I thought they were strong episodes. I like Travelers more than Reunion, but that's just the nature of the storytelling here, and I prefer the action in Travelers, and I'm a big Shep fan too! :lol: I did adore Travelers, but DG packed more of an emotional punch for me, as did Adrift. They were different types of episodes, and I'm good with that :)
I agree and that is how I always watch and enjoy SGA. Each ep was different and each ep made me go WOW in a different way. Adrift,Lifeline and Doppleganger were great eps but so were Reunion and Travelers.

only4amoment
October 28th, 2007, 10:15 AM
Reunion was better than todays.

Let's see:

Predictable things:
Larrin/Shep banter
Wraith feeding & returning life.
Borrowed elements from PU.
Kissing.


Fun facts:
Ronon's gun trivia. That was nice.

Fun to watch:
Shep getting whumpped hard - by a girl.

What was up with the rest of the team? Suddenly Rodney's in charge? No one felt strange that the Head of science team was running the rescue mission and pretty much the back end of the show? No background given? Lorne had what 2 or 3 lines? The jumper formation, I guess they loved the Adrift one so much, they're going to want to repeat this. Teyla & Ronon - still under used as ever.

When they said the show will go dark this season, I didn't realize they meant they forgot to pay the light bill and it would be literally dark.

Anywho, moving along.


Amen to that. The fact that McKay was in charge and Carter didn't show up once is strange, given that she's in charge of Atlantis! And besides McKay's lines, almost no one but Shepherd played any kind of important part in this episode. It was just a disappointment.

Redhooks
October 28th, 2007, 11:45 AM
I don't think the guns came from the Travelers as when Shep asked larrin for more she said there were none. So maybe she picked it up on her travels?

I thought she meant she hadn't got any more charges for the gun with her. There may have been more back on the Traveler ships...
I agree with Ali about she didn't have anymore charges/energy cells for the gun, but other than her holster where would she have kept one in the predictable wardrobe she had on? :lol:
I did see another female Traveler pass by the corridor that Larrin, Sheppard, and the Security Guard were coming down to go to the hanger bay and she had on the same type of uniform as the male Travelers. I like Jill and yes she is beautiful, but sometimes I feel she is not given the chance to prove her acting without being in wardrobe meant to attract the 14 to 35 year old male demographic. :rolleyes:

Agreed. Maybe it would have been helpful to see the people that she's the leader of? (Damn time constraints) Maybe then we'd have been able to see where she's coming from and what she's had to deal with so far. Words can only take you so far, so for me, i'd have liked to have seen the conditions they lived in, what they went through to get to this point, and why she was such a hard ass. From the looks of the fleet, they're certainly more than capable of tipping the balance, and they seem more co-ordinated than the the Genni were.... I miss the Gennii though... *sniff* and Kolya.... :(

And i'm looking forward to her 'arc', and tbh i'd rather see that than the two-dimensional busty babes.
I guess that is why I had problems with this episode the first time I saw it because as an introductory episode, I thought we would have seen/been told more about the Travelers (at least a name) then we were. :( Also why I thought it could have been a two-parter with an additional sub-plot, but that is just me.

Agreeing with you here. That's the scene I was remembering too when she was using the LSD. I suppose it could have been an upgraded model.... ;)
A one sentence explaination is all I'm asking for if it is a different model.


*giggle* Good point. Who knows? Maybe the missing scene is Lorne blowing the dart to hell as it goes by.
As an additional thought, the dart would have told the rescue team that it was a Wraith ship ahead so they probably would have gone in drones blazing. Which would have been bad. :lol:

BeautifulScotland
October 28th, 2007, 11:48 AM
I have not read the entire thread.

This was a very enjoyable episode for me. While I did connect it to the Daniel/Vala episode of Season 8, this was different enough for me.

Larrin is an interesting character. While she does have her weak sides, she dosen't show them. I love the fact that when she hit John, she really PUNCHED him! Many times!!!

Most women in shows will simply slap men around.

I could also see their reasoning behind kidnapping John. These people spend their whole lives on ships and they really don't trust anybody and they saw kidnapping John and forcing him to help them as their only shot.

Ruffles
October 28th, 2007, 12:21 PM
A one sentence explaination is all I'm asking for if it is a different model.


As an additional thought, the dart would have told the rescue team that it was a Wraith ship ahead so they probably would have gone in drones blazing. Which would have been bad. :lol:

I totally understand what you're saying. Of course, they only have 43 minutes to give us info on the Travelers and everything else. All those little sentences probably added 5 minutes they didn't have so they had to decide what to cut.

Redhooks
October 28th, 2007, 12:44 PM
I totally understand what you're saying. Of course, they only have 43 minutes to give us info on the Travelers and everything else. All those little sentences probably added 5 minutes they didn't have so they had to decide what to cut.
I agree and that is why a two-parter would have been better. (and I could have seen more of Jill, oops, did I say that out loud? :lol:)
Actually, that is why I asked JM on his blog yesterday if there were any deleted scenes due to time constraints and he said no. :( I guess the Travelers sound like an interesting race to me and more history would have been better. Of course, other people who were bored with this episode probably would say "who cares?" so that is the way TV is because you can't make everyone happy.

Willow'sCat
October 28th, 2007, 01:07 PM
Amen to that. The fact that McKay was in charge and Carter didn't show up once is strange, given that she's in charge of Atlantis! And besides McKay's lines, almost no one but Shepherd played any kind of important part in this episode. It was just a disappointment.I think that is the main reason this episode failed imho. We are promised more TEAM moments and interaction and what we get here is a Sheppard ep. Fine. But Sheppard spent all his time being stupid! On LJ someone described him as the dumb blond in this ep and I can so see that... why would a military leader ever trust someone who tried to kill them???? Beggars believe! A real leader would never let down their guard in that kind of situation, and does John never learn from his past mistakes?!? :S Obviously not. :cool:

D.U.M.B=:sheppardanime31:

Pegasus_SGA
October 28th, 2007, 01:54 PM
One of the things I like about season four is the way it's slanting toward reality. All those times they threw one Jumper at a problem when they should have launched several ... In the past, they couldn't, I know, but because the constraints came from out-of-universe, as in budgets, etc., the viewer just had to let it go. A real rescue attempt looks like the one we saw in Travelers: multiple security teams, the 2IC with the uber-serious face. Lol, I love Lorne more and more. He got me this time with the way he answered Ronon's uber-serious question. And he looks very bumbed when the alien fleet + the Unnamed Lantean Warship wink into hyperspace, with (or so he thought) Sheppard.

I liked that we got shown multiple jumpers and that they were primed and ready for action, I just wanted to see the action and them getting into a shoot-em-up battle. :lol:


If we're getting the obvious detail that Ronon's gun is powered by something, I say, It's about time. These are the kinds of things I expect to see by the time a series is in its fourth season. Let's bring out the little stuff. I never minded that Ronon mostly reloaded off-screen but I never doubted that he reloaded. If Ronon had an infinite power source for his energy pistol, somebody would have swiped it and adapted the power crystal technology for something a little more useful, like a shield generator.

I agree, I enjoy learning about the different types of tech and how they're powered, where they come from. I also loved that in this there definately seemed to be a lot more continuity and foreshadowing which I adore. I agree if Ronon's gun had an unlimited supply of energy, i'm sure Rodney would have stolen it for study acquired it for testing. :P


The Wraith are different and Sheppard thinks now before dropping them indiscriminately? Hmm, I'm enjoying this road. I want to see the Wraith as individuals with individual history with the expedition. After last year's stories, I figured the show was doing away with the black-and-white brush and maybe giving the viewer something meatier to think about. I hope I'm right.

I have to say i'm not surprised Sheppard kept his words... maybe he's hoping it'll open the doors for another alliance further down the line. I'm ok with an alliance between them, as it gives us the opportunity to see what they're about. I would hope that the team learned from their last alliance, but I wouldn't want the main players in SGA to be the Asurans to be honest, as they bore me a little bit. But with that said, I did enjoy lifeline and the potential that brought. For me I like the mistrust that's played up between the various races, but getting to know about the and their cultures to. With this, I don't feel as if we got that just yet, so i'm hoping their meeting was just the initial set up and we learn more in BMASR.


Ruffles, Peg SGA, lol, I can't green you, must spread more love, but I tried!

Thanks hon, me to. :lol: I suddenly feel all hippy now. :D


That was my thought. The way they live their lives in designed to avoid the Wraith. It's entirely probable she's never actually been face to face with one before.

I thought she meant she hadn't got any more charges for the gun with her. There may have been more back on the Traveler ships...

I agree. I just got the impression that they only had the one... it will be interesting to see if she has anymore in their next encounter or if she has a different weapon.


Yep, I agree with you there. I like dark, and agree those episodes you mention were darker than usual. Travelers was such a fun episode for me, but it wasn't that dark really - other than Larrin having Sheppard beaten up for information, that was pretty dark, and I can't deny I loved that! :o. I don't expect all the episodes to be dark and serious though, so I'm ok with that. Travelers did live up to the hype for me, and actually it exceeded my expectations. I had lowered my expectations somewhat, as I thought I was getting a little carried away with them. Now I've watched Travelers several times, I appreciate it even more than I did initially.

I also must mention Joel Goldsmith's score, which I forgot to do previously. I thought it was really fantastic. :)

I think my expections were pretty high on this and I love that we got a Shep eppy akin to Reunion, I don't know why I was expecting more team interaction... possibly because I thought it would be along the same lines of CG and although that was a Shep ep, I felt the team concern and they were all involved. In this, as much as I loved the ep, I did miss the 'concern' that I felt from the team in CG... :o

The score was fabulous.


Actually I felt they were quite gritty. They had no compassion,ability to trust and extremely willing to tourture and kill. I loved how Larrin was such a hard ass and willing to do whatever it took to complete her task. I too hope to see more and believe she and her people can be a great ally.

I wouldn't say naive I'd say compassionate because he believes her about why she was doing it. I see why some comapare it to Prometheus Unbound however the big difference here is that she is telling the truth. I think they both underestimated each other and I loved their on screen chemistry.

I felt they were gritty, but I felt as if Larrin was playing Sheppard very well. I don't think she would have sacrificed her team to be honest, because although she comes across as a 'hard ass' and willing to do what it takes. You could tell that, and I think Shep knew that when she kept hoping her friends weren't dead. When it came down to it, I don't think she's that ruthless, certainly not in the league of the likes of Kolya. So while she's happy to beat Shep for information *squeeee* I don't think she'd go as far as murder.


I agree and that is how I always watch and enjoy SGA. Each ep was different and each ep made me go WOW in a different way. Adrift,Lifeline and Doppleganger were great eps but so were Reunion and Travelers.

I agree. I don't know what it is about season 4, but it feels very different and I can't put my finger on why. Whether it's the graphics, the team, the sets, or the darker feel of the storylines, but something is different. Not in a bad way, in a different way and I think i'm still getting used to it. :lol: I have loved all the storylines this year, and they are very different to each other. I can't even compare DG to this, because they are so different. And that can only be a good thing. :D


I agree with Ali about she didn't have anymore charges/energy cells for the gun, but other than her holster where would she have kept one in the predictable wardrobe she had on? :lol:
I did see another female Traveler pass by the corridor that Larrin, Sheppard, and the Security Guard were coming down to go to the hanger bay and she had on the same type of uniform as the male Travelers. I like Jill and yes she is beautiful, but sometimes I feel she is not given the chance to prove her acting without being in wardrobe meant to attract the 14 to 35 year old male demographic. :rolleyes:

:lol: I actually thought that she wasn't too revealing, but the clothes were very snug... great for the fanboys... *reads up* well, some anyway. :P We know that the women always were sexy clothing, and to be honest it doesn't bother me, but then I don't judge someone's abilities based on the clothes they wear. Trouble is hon, isn't that the demographics that they're aiming for?



I guess that is why I had problems with this episode the first time I saw it because as an introductory episode, I thought we would have seen/been told more about the Travelers (at least a name) then we were. Also why I thought it could have been a two-parter with an additional sub-plot, but that is just me.

A one sentence explaination is all I'm asking for if it is a different model.


I was hoping for a little more, not necessarily 'tell me about the travelers', more show me about them. Let me see what they have, let me explore their history, but again i'm assuming time, budgets wouldn't allow? Maybe next time though? I agree this could have been a good two parter... others i'm sure will disagree though. :lol:


As an additional thought, the dart would have told the rescue team that it was a Wraith ship ahead so they probably would have gone in drones blazing. Which would have been bad. :lol:

Bad, but so cool! :D


I think that is the main reason this episode failed imho. We are promised more TEAM moments and interaction and what we get here is a Sheppard ep. Fine. But Sheppard spent all his time being stupid! On LJ someone described him as the dumb blond in this ep and I can so see that... why would a military leader ever trust someone who tried to kill them???? Beggars believe! A real leader would never let down their guard in that kind of situation, and does John never learn from his past mistakes?!? :S Obviously not. :cool:

D.U.M.B=:sheppardanime31:

TBH willow, i'm not interested what 'other people' on LJ have to say, if they can't be bothered to come to GW and discuss it here, then please don't quote them. I'd appreciate it if you could keep things to how you feel and what you've said rather than some anonymouse. Even though we're bound to disagree. ;) I watched the ep over and over and still can't see how Sheppard was dumb? Was it because after saving someone's life he thought that they'd finally reached a mutual level of trust and it turned out they hadn't?

I disagree about a leader not letting their guard down. Sometimes you have to let your guard down and make the first move, show an inkling of trust. How else can you broker and alliance or treaty if someone doesn't make that first move? Weir did it with the Genni, she had to trust them, when she had no reason not to, so why is it so 'dumb' for Sheppard to take a leaf out of her book?

kt22
October 28th, 2007, 01:55 PM
That wraith was the biggest pansie when shepherd just told him to leave

Pegasus_SGA
October 28th, 2007, 02:03 PM
That wraith was the biggest pansie when shepherd just told him to leave
In the words of McKay, "it was a strategic retreat!" :P What was his option? No gun, outnumbered, and liklihood of success was zero... so yeah you're probably right, death was probably the better option. :rolleyes:

Linzi
October 28th, 2007, 02:08 PM
I liked that we got shown multiple jumpers and that they were primed and ready for action, I just wanted to see the action and them getting into a shoot-em-up battle. :lol:



I agree, I enjoy learning about the different types of tech and how they're powered, where they come from. I also loved that in this there definately seemed to be a lot more continuity and foreshadowing which I adore. I agree if Ronon's gun had an unlimited supply of energy, i'm sure Rodney would have acquired it for testing. :P



I have to say i'm not surprised Sheppard kept his words... maybe he's hoping it'll open the doors for another alliance further down the line. I'm ok with an alliance between them, as it gives us the opportunity to see what they're about. I would hope that the team learned from their last alliance, but I wouldn't want the main players in SGA to be the Asurans to be honest, as they bore me a little bit. But with that said, I did enjoy lifeline and the potential that brought. For me I like the mistrust that's played up between the various races, but getting to know about the and their cultures to. With this, I don't feel as if we got that just yet, so i'm hoping their meeting was just the initial set up and we learn more in BMASR.



Thanks hon, me to. :lol: I suddenly feel all hippy now. :D



I agree. I just got the impression that they only had the one... it will be interesting to see if she has anymore in their next encounter or if she has a different weapon.



I think my expections were pretty high on this and I love that we got a Shep eppy akin to Reunion, I don't know why I was expecting more team interaction... possibly because I thought it would be along the same lines of CG and although that was a Shep ep, I felt the team concern and they were all involved. In this, as much as I loved the ep, I did miss the 'concern' that I felt from the team in CG... :o

The score was fabulous.



I felt they were gritty, but I felt as if Larrin was playing Sheppard very well. I don't think she would have sacrificed her team to be honest, because although she comes across as a 'hard ass' and willing to do what it takes. You could tell that, and I think Shep knew that when she kept hoping her friends weren't dead. When it came down to it, I don't think she's that ruthless, certainly not in the league of the likes of Kolya. So while she's happy to beat Shep for information *squeeee* I don't think she'd go as far as murder.



I agree. I don't know what it is about season 4, but it feels very different and I can't put my finger on why. Whether it's the graphics, the team, the sets, or the darker feel of the storylines, but something is different. Not in a bad way, in a different way and I think i'm still getting used to it. :lol: I have loved all the storylines this year, and they are very different to each other. I can't even compare DG to this, because they are so different. And that can only be a good thing. :D



:lol: I actually thought that she wasn't too revealing, but the clothes were very snug... great for the fanboys... *reads up* well, some anyway. :P We know that the women always were sexy clothing, and to be honest it doesn't bother me, but then I don't judge someone's abilities based on the clothes they wear. Trouble is hon, isn't that the demographics that they're aiming for?



I was hoping for a little more, not necessarily 'tell me about the travelers', more show me about them. Let me see what they have, let me explore their history, but again i'm assuming time, budgets wouldn't allow? Maybe next time though? I agree this could have been a good two parter... others i'm sure will disagree though. :lol:



Bad, but so cool! :D



TBH willow, i'm not interested what 'other people' on LJ have to say, if they can't be bothered to come to GW and discuss it here, then please don't quote them. I'd appreciate it if you could keep things to how you feel and what you've said rather than some anonymouse. Even though we're bound to disagree. ;) I watched the ep over and over and still can't see how Sheppard was dumb? Was it because after saving someone's life he thought that they'd finally reached a mutual level of trust and it turned out they hadn't?

I disagree about a leader not letting their guard down. Sometimes you have to let your guard down and make the first move, show an inkling of trust. How else can you broker and alliance or treaty if someone doesn't make that first move? Weir did it with the Genni, she had to trust them, when she had no reason not to, so why is it so 'dumb' for Sheppard to take a leaf out of her book?
I agree with you here Peg. Let's keep what folks say off of GW out of here. I don't see how their opinions mean anything if they're not posted here. They can't explain them and we can't question or discuss them, because, oh yes, they're not here...;) Oooh, someone said something on lj, they must be correct, mustn't they? Because, of course we all need others to make our opinions more valid, don't we? :rolleyes:

As for Sheppard being a dumb blonde....okaaaaay, whatever floats your boat, or not. Sheppard didn't appear stupid anywhere in this episode. In fact he was extremely tactically smart and technically impressive too. Hello? He repaired the control chair, activated Ancient systems, repaired the communications so he could send a morse code signal to Atlantis, to name but a few things. Are those the actions of someone who is dumb? I think not. Sure he trusted someone who'd just been life sucked and restored and who appeared fragile, and she took advantage of the situation. Good. I like that. It doesn't make Sheppard stupid, just Larrin devious and smart. That's how I like female guest characters of Larrin's type to be. She uses her looks to her advantage. I like that.

I thought Larrin's outfit was sexy, but not smutty. It was snug, but not too revealing. She certainly ran around enough in it, so it must have been reasonably practical. Though, how her hair looks so good is another thing! :lol: I can suspend belief though. I think the Pegasus Galaxy is a haven for hair products...;)

garhkal
October 28th, 2007, 02:25 PM
and the whole you can leave and live another day?? Put him in a room!, disable such room and DON”T let him go! your life still at risk.
But wait let him go, then go all stupid and let the chick kick you butt with the gun you all ready had and was supposedly, in a safe place umm.


After giving it a little thought, maybe the wraith wanted to leave so he could bring news of the discovery that humans now know of their life giving powers AND the info on the travelers/ancient ship connection to his queen..


Just another sort of minor plot hole that I noticed no one else has said, why didn't the Atlantis' jumpers pick-up the Wraith dart that had to pass close to them on its way to the space gate where they themselves came through? You would have thought with the PJ sensors at their maximum, they could not have missed the dart? I know an interception scene would have been expensive and that is why this was probably never mentioned,but what do you people think about it?

perhaps the wraith did not leave.. and is still on the ship..

majorsal
October 28th, 2007, 02:25 PM
I am glad I am not the only one who does not think this episode was great. For me it was the weakest, the most boring, embarrasing and predictable so far. Unlike all the previous ones, I have not had the urge to rewatch it.
I can see some similarities between Prometeus Unbound and the Travelers. Sexy chick in black kicks ass. However PU was meant to be funny and it was. Both Claudia Black and Michael Shanks have great comic timing and delivery. Having funny script helps too. Which sadly was not the case with Travelers. I know that it still did the job of introduction of the new race. But is some ingenuity or at least a shadow of a plot twist too much to ask? The main trait of the episode was that it happened to be predictable as hell.
Jill Wagner was nice to look at, but I do hope her acting will get better as well as the scriptwriting for her.



i was really not that excited about this ep before it aired, just by the storyline idea. after 'prometheus unbound' -which i feel is the worst 'stargate' episode i've ever seen- i was *really* afraid of what we were going to get. i was pleasantly surprised that it was 'not' like the PU episode. while i think ms and cb had more working chemistry together, i think that's because they're both good actors. i feel someone better could have been found for flanigan to work off of. (maybe the woman that played jadzia dax from star trek DS9?)

i'm not meaning to sound dissy towards jill wagner (and i hope she's not reading this :(), but she needs more seasoning as an actress to me. but the character and the travelers are interesting.



sally :)

PG15
October 28th, 2007, 02:27 PM
I think that is the main reason this episode failed imho. We are promised more TEAM moments and interaction and what we get here is a Sheppard ep.

TPTB also promised character episodes for each character in the 1st half of the season. Geez, they just can't win, can they? Besides, we already got a team ep in Doppleganger.


Fine. But Sheppard spent all his time being stupid! On LJ someone described him as the dumb blond in this ep and I can so see that... why would a military leader ever trust someone who tried to kill them???? Beggars believe! A real leader would never let down their guard in that kind of situation, and does John never learn from his past mistakes?!? :S Obviously not. :cool:


I only saw him letting his guard down once, and that's after he saved the "enemy"'s life twice. The fact that Shep said later that he wanted an alliance probably meant that he's trying his best to work out a good relationship between their people, so shooting the leader of the Travelers probably wouldn't go that long of a way towards his goal.

Sheppard seemed extraordinarily smart in this episode, to me, actually. The inertial dampeners, the SOS, using his knowledge of Ancient ships and tech, etc. Those who are complaining that he didn't just kill Larrin so that the tech fanboys can have something else to drool over the expedition can have another powerful ship has really misunderstood Shep's character. IMHO he saw the value of an alliance with these people the moment he saw the Lantian ship.

Linzi
October 28th, 2007, 02:33 PM
i was really not that excited about this ep before it aired, just by the storyline idea. after 'prometheus unbound' -which i feel is the worst 'stargate' episode i've ever seen- i was *really* afraid of what we were going to get. i was pleasantly surprised that it was 'not' like the PU episode. while i think ms and cb had more working chemistry together, i think that's because they're both good actors. i feel someone better could have been found for flanigan to work off of. (maybe the woman that played jadzia dax from star trek DS9?)

i'm not meaning to sound dissy towards jill wagner (and i hope she's not reading this :(), but she needs more seasoning as an actress to me. but the character and the travelers are interesting.



sally :)
I have to admit to not enjoying PU. I think both CB and MS are great actors, but the episode was smutty and just too fluffy for me. I really don't think it was like Travelers at all. Yes, both episodes had an alien woman in them, but there the similarities end, I think. I do agree that perhaps Jill is a little unseasoned. I think that's a nice way of putting it. But she's young and relatively new to acting, so I think she did a good job considering that.

I really liked Travelers. Though, if a fan doesn't like Sheppard or Larrin much, then, naturally it's not going to be one of their favourites I'd guess. But, as JM said on his blog a while back, if you're only a fan of one character, you're not going to enjoy every episode on season 4, because different characters are getting their own episodes this year, which I think is fair, even though I personally am more biased toward team episodes which centre on certain characters, like DG. :)

Linzi
October 28th, 2007, 02:34 PM
TPTB also promised character episodes for each character in the 1st half of the season. Geez, they just can't win, can they? Besides, we already got a team ep in Doppleganger.



I only saw him letting his guard down once, and that's after he saved the "enemy"'s life twice. The fact that Shep said later that he wanted an alliance probably meant that he's trying his best to work out a good relationship between their people, so shooting the leader of the Travelers probably wouldn't go that long of a way towards his goal.

Sheppard seemed extraordinarily smart in this episode, to me, actually. The inertial dampeners, the SOS, using his knowledge of Ancient ships and tech, etc. Those who are complaining that he didn't just kill Larrin so that the tech fanboys can have something else to drool over the expedition can have another powerful ship has really misunderstood Shep's character. IMHO he saw the value of an alliance with these people the moment he saw the Lantian ship.
Well said PG! I agree. :) I loved your earlier review, by the way. :)

majorsal
October 28th, 2007, 02:36 PM
Larrin is an interesting character. While she does have her weak sides, she dosen't show them. I love the fact that when she hit John, she really PUNCHED him! Many times!!!



my mom laughed at that scene when sheppard said, 'will you stop that!' (i think that's what he said anways). :p

but that scene... i was so afraid he was going to pop her one back. not that she didn't deserve to be hit back, but i seriously didn't like the daniel-vala fight in 'PU' and was...

kind of sorry that two guys with larrin were killed off. i've only seen this once, but didn't the two 'know' they were going to die? i 'think' i remember seeing this look that passed between them that they knew they were doomed. :(



sally :)

Linzi
October 28th, 2007, 02:38 PM
my mom laughed at that scene when sheppard said, 'will you stop that!' (i think that's what he said anways). :p

but that scene... i was so afraid he was going to pop her one back. not that she didn't deserve to be hit back, but i seriously didn't like the daniel-vala fight in 'PU' and was...

kind of sorry that two guys with larrin were killed off. i've only seen this once, but didn't the two 'know' they were going to die? i 'think' i remember seeing this look that passed between them that they knew they were doomed. :(



sally :)
I think they knew they were in trouble, yes. I don't know if they saw the wraith weapon's fire coming their way. I'd guess they did though. It was a little sad they died, I'd agree.

majorsal
October 28th, 2007, 02:42 PM
I thought Larrin's outfit was sexy, but not smutty. It was snug, but not too revealing.

i agree.

not that i could tell you exactly what she was wearing, but that it didn't jump out 'hot exposed chick!' means it wasn't in my face.



sally :)

Redhooks
October 28th, 2007, 02:42 PM
I thought Larrin's outfit was sexy, but not smutty. It was snug, but not too revealing. She certainly ran around enough in it, so it must have been reasonably practical.
At least they had her put on that coat type thing that buttoned or attached at the cleavage (yes I noticed that! :o) when she went aboard the Ancient warship. The tight pants were not an detriment to her running, but the pointy toe boots with the 2 inch or so heels were not as practical to me and how can a woman run in those? :lol: In fact how can women walk in very high heeled shoes at anytime, which Jill has worn in Blade: The Series and some Mercury commercials an inquiring male wants to know? :lol:

Linzi
October 28th, 2007, 02:45 PM
At least they had her put on that coat type thing that buttoned or attached at the cleavage (yes I noticed that! :o) when she went aboard the Ancient warship. The tight pants were not an detriment to her running, but the pointy toe boots with the 2 inch or so heels were not as practical to me and how can a woman run in those? :lol: In fact how can women walk in very high heeled shoes at anytime, which Jill has worn in Blade: The Series and some Mercury commercials an inquiring male wants to know? :lol:
You noticed how her top/coat type thing was buttoned? Why am I not surprised! :lol: I liked her outfit personally.


How do women walk in high heels? I normally walk in them all the time, because I'm vertically challenged! I just am used to them really, as I've always worn them, whether it be high heeled boots or shoes. I have a sprained ankle at the moment though, and am confined to trainers, which I hate!

prion
October 28th, 2007, 02:46 PM
In the words of McKay, "it was a strategic retreat!" :P What was his option? No gun, outnumbered, and liklihood of success was zero... so yeah you're probably right, death was probably the better option. :rolleyes:

Hey, it's not like the wraith was unarmed (yes, you can groan now).




TBH willow, i'm not interested what 'other people' on LJ have to say, if they can't be bothered to come to GW and discuss it here, then please don't quote them. I'd appreciate it if you could keep things to how you feel and what you've said rather than some anonymouse. Even though we're bound to disagree. ;) I watched the ep over and over and still can't see how Sheppard was dumb? Was it because after saving someone's life he thought that they'd finally reached a mutual level of trust and it turned out they hadn't?


Actually, a good deal of folk who do LJ do post here, but no, if you do cite a source, please link to it.

The fact that Larrin showed had no qualms exposing her own people to radiation, even as a calculated risk, in my book showed she wasn't a person to be trusted. She had him beat up - verbal interrogation should have been first. No, she wasn't to be trusted, so Sheppard wasn't being the sharpest crayon in the box when he let her kiss him - because he had the gun - and she's got a demonstrated history that she would do whatever it took to get the ship. So, it doesn't put Shep in a good light.


Amen to that. The fact that McKay was in charge and Carter didn't show up once is strange, given that she's in charge of Atlantis! And besides McKay's lines, almost no one but Shepherd played any kind of important part in this episode. It was just a disappointment.

I didn't notice the lack of Carter until I rewatched it. Maybe carter is off-world rescuing another team ;)


Yeah, sorry, I'm not agreeing with you here... Jill was great, but, honestly, no way is she in Flanigan's league at the moment.

I thought she was okay but not so good in parts.


Nice. But actually Paul Mullie wrote it.



No matter what JM says on his blog, what counts is the credits you see on the screen because people get PAID according to that. So, the names on the screen (as writer, etc.) can take the praise when it comes, or the blame when its doled out.

majorsal
October 28th, 2007, 02:50 PM
I really liked Travelers. Though, if a fan doesn't like Sheppard or Larrin much, then, naturally it's not going to be one of their favourites I'd guess.

since i'm new, i like character episodes even more because it helps me learn about the character. (duh:p).

what i learned about sheppard was:

*he's very smart.
*he enjoys the opposite sex. :p
*he can proficiently use ancient tech.
*he's compassionate, even towards those that don't really deserve it.
*he's laidback, but not lazy.
*he's garnered a lot of respect from his fellow co-workers, which i believe has turned into love. they'd do anything for him.




sally :)

PG15
October 28th, 2007, 02:53 PM
No matter what JM says on his blog, what counts is the credits you see on the screen because people get PAID according to that. So, the names on the screen (as writer, etc.) can take the praise when it comes, or the blame when its doled out.

I don't really care who gets paid or who doesn't, the blame or praise should lie on the person who actually wrote it. Come on prion, you've been through Joe's blog, you know he didn't write it. Just because someone gets paid doesn't mean he got as much say on the episode as the guy who actually wrote it.

And before anyone accuse me of blindly trusting JM, just realize that if you think both JM and PM wrote it, then you're blindly trusting the credits.

jckfan55
October 28th, 2007, 02:58 PM
Well, I thought this was a pretty lame episode. I was having PU flashbacks. :( Not sure if this new group of people will make for future storylines.

I liked that Sheppard was shown as knowing his way around the controls--but not as a complete expert. Rodney was ok. Lorne's always good to see. Teyla & Ronan were left w/out much to do.

So-so.

tsaxlady
October 28th, 2007, 03:07 PM
Okay this one bored me so much it put me to sleep Friday night. Thought maybe it was just because I had a really long day - so tried watching again today - guess what feel asleep watching again.

Hopefully next week will be better.

P-90_177
October 28th, 2007, 03:11 PM
ok i'll weigh in here finally.

Watched this last night and i thought it was yet anoth bloody brilliant episode. Not as good as the the last two but still pretty good.

It was good to see another aurora class and i love the idea of these travellers even their ships looked old and worn and fallling apart which fits considering. Of course it was also cool to see where ronons gun originates.

Mack_1
October 28th, 2007, 03:49 PM
After giving it a little thought, maybe the wraith wanted to leave so he could bring news of the discovery that humans now know of their life giving powers AND the info on the travelers/ancient ship connection to his queen..



perhaps the wraith did not leave.. and is still on the ship..

That's what I want to believe, no more travelers and now they have a new hunting ground:)

prion
October 28th, 2007, 04:16 PM
I don't really care who gets paid or who doesn't, the blame or praise should lie on the person who actually wrote it. Come on prion, you've been through Joe's blog, you know he didn't write it. Just because someone gets paid doesn't mean he got as much say on the episode as the guy who actually wrote it.

And before anyone accuse me of blindly trusting JM, just realize that if you think both JM and PM wrote it, then you're blindly trusting the credits.

If they get a writing credit, then they're involved in the writing. The producers (JM, etc.) have said that they do rework scripts, hence, they're mucking about on the scripts, even if they're changing one sentence. If the credit's on the screen, that's the final say, because in the end, that's what counts when they put it down on their resume. They just don't stick names willy-nilly on shows. People work to get their names in certain slots.

Ruffles
October 28th, 2007, 04:18 PM
I agree and that is why a two-parter would have been better. (and I could have seen more of Jill, oops, did I say that out loud? :lol:)
Actually, that is why I asked JM on his blog yesterday if there were any deleted scenes due to time constraints and he said no. :( I guess the Travelers sound like an interesting race to me and more history would have been better. Of course, other people who were bored with this episode probably would say "who cares?" so that is the way TV is because you can't make everyone happy.

If we learned everything about them in the first ep, what would we learn in the next one? ;) The Travelers have kept their existence a closely held secret for thousands of years. Sheppard is lucky she let him leave knowing as much as he does. We'll probably learn a bit more the next time they meet.


TPTB also promised character episodes for each character in the 1st half of the season. Geez, they just can't win, can they? Besides, we already got a team ep in Doppleganger.



I only saw him letting his guard down once, and that's after he saved the "enemy"'s life twice. The fact that Shep said later that he wanted an alliance probably meant that he's trying his best to work out a good relationship between their people, so shooting the leader of the Travelers probably wouldn't go that long of a way towards his goal.

Sheppard seemed extraordinarily smart in this episode, to me, actually. The inertial dampeners, the SOS, using his knowledge of Ancient ships and tech, etc. Those who are complaining that he didn't just kill Larrin so that the tech fanboys can have something else to drool over the expedition can have another powerful ship has really misunderstood Shep's character. IMHO he saw the value of an alliance with these people the moment he saw the Lantian ship.

Well said. I would say he probably started thinking alliance when he got captured (assuming he didn't get killed). He would have recognized the advantage of having someone that technologically advanced on their side.


At least they had her put on that coat type thing that buttoned or attached at the cleavage (yes I noticed that! :o) when she went aboard the Ancient warship. The tight pants were not an detriment to her running, but the pointy toe boots with the 2 inch or so heels were not as practical to me and how can a woman run in those? :lol: In fact how can women walk in very high heeled shoes at anytime, which Jill has worn in Blade: The Series and some Mercury commercials an inquiring male wants to know? :lol:

We learn it in Girl School. ;) And her boot heels, while not flat, were thick which makes for much easier running than spikes. And they weren't that high.


since i'm new, i like character episodes even more because it helps me learn about the character. (duh:p).

what i learned about sheppard was:

*he's very smart.
*he enjoys the opposite sex. :p
*he can proficiently use ancient tech.
*he's compassionate, even towards those that don't really deserve it.
*he's laidback, but not lazy.
*he's garnered a lot of respect from his fellow co-workers, which i believe has turned into love. they'd do anything for him.




sally :)

You've definitely been paying attention. That's exactly who he is. And not only would his people do anything for him, he would do anything for them.

P-90_177
October 28th, 2007, 04:21 PM
course when sheppard gets pissed.........well anyone in his way is in danger.

PG15
October 28th, 2007, 04:36 PM
If they get a writing credit, then they're involved in the writing. The producers (JM, etc.) have said that they do rework scripts, hence, they're mucking about on the scripts, even if they're changing one sentence. If the credit's on the screen, that's the final say, because in the end, that's what counts when they put it down on their resume. They just don't stick names willy-nilly on shows. People work to get their names in certain slots.

I don't know why we're even debating this. We (and that's you and me) know that Paul Mullie wrote the episode, since JM has repeated it many times. Mullie was the one that wrote most of it, while every one of the rest of the staff, including SciFi offered notes, that's nothing new. If you want to say that the writer of the episode is anyone who input a line or two, then everyone on the staff would be the writer for every episode.

This has absolutely nothing to do with all that legal monetary stuff that you mentioned, and everything to do with the bare choice: who wrote the episode?

That'd be Paul Mullie, hon.

Think of it this way. Jim and Tim are a pair of painters, and they usually (somehow) paint paintings together. But, times change and nowadays Jim paints his paintings alone, while Tim does the same. However, they offer each other pointers once in a while.

If you see a painting that you loved/hated, and you know that Jim painted it, would you praise Tim as well, just because "officially" they used to paint together? It wouldn't make sense to, would it? Why should Tim get that much glory when all he did was point out that, say, that yellow Jim used in the corner should've been darker?

ToasterOnFire
October 28th, 2007, 05:03 PM
If Jim and Tim both used to contribute creative efforts to a painting then I would expect them to both sign the work. If they later split up and Jim paints his own paintings with minimal to zero contribution by Tim then yes, I would expect Jim to sign his paintings with only his name. Otherwise it has an air of...I hesitate to use the word "dishonesty" since we've seen how accusations of lying have erupted in the past...but not something fully accurate and correct either.

No wonder most fans and casual viewers think that these eps are written by both Ms and target both of them for praise and condemnation - it says "written by M&M" in large text in the credits. And the only info to the contrary is in a somewhat obscure blog by Joe M. What percentage of viewers and GW posters even visit that site?

It's all somewhat moot to me anyway - both Ms have written their share of stinkers IMO, so I hesitate whenever I see "written by M&M", regardless of who ended up actually writing it. ;) :D And I have a feeling that neither M gets bent out of shape when they're praised or condemned mistakenly for an ep they didn't do. Otherwise they would have fixed the credits to accurately reflect who did what, right?

WingedPegasus
October 28th, 2007, 05:33 PM
I gotta say, I wasn't really expecting anything marvelous from this ep, but it was far more enjoyable than I would have expected. There were a lot of funny moments, and the special effects were great. By no means was it a bad episode, but I would have liked to see a bit more of the team. I can't complain too much though, because next weeks episode is looking to be a lot more team-oriented.

Mitchell82
October 28th, 2007, 05:42 PM
I liked that we got shown multiple jumpers and that they were primed and ready for action, I just wanted to see the action and them getting into a shoot-em-up battle. :lol:
I agree and disagree. I too would have liked to see a full out battle however that would have destroyed any chance of an alliance so I'm happy with the way it was done.




I agree, I enjoy learning about the different types of tech and how they're powered, where they come from. I also loved that in this there definately seemed to be a lot more continuity and foreshadowing which I adore. I agree if Ronon's gun had an unlimited supply of energy, i'm sure Rodney would have stolen it for study acquired it for testing. :P
Agreed and Ronon has reloaded it once or twice and she also depleted it quite fast. So not that much of an oversight.




I have to say i'm not surprised Sheppard kept his words... maybe he's hoping it'll open the doors for another alliance further down the line. I'm ok with an alliance between them, as it gives us the opportunity to see what they're about. I would hope that the team learned from their last alliance, but I wouldn't want the main players in SGA to be the Asurans to be honest, as they bore me a little bit. But with that said, I did enjoy lifeline and the potential that brought. For me I like the mistrust that's played up between the various races, but getting to know about the and their cultures to. With this, I don't feel as if we got that just yet, so i'm hoping their meeting was just the initial set up and we learn more in BMASR.
Neither am I and personally am glad that he did.It opens up many possibilities.








I agree. I just got the impression that they only had the one... it will be interesting to see if she has anymore in their next encounter or if she has a different weapon.
Agreed and I'm hoping they go into more detail as to where they got those weapons. It's not Satedan so obviously neither Ronon nor Larin got them there so they are obviously from another race. Since they are energy based we only know of a few races that use energy based weapons. Ancients, Asurans, and Wraith. So my guess is unless it's from another race it is a prototype Wraith weapon that stuns and kills. They usually stun their victims for feeding but in a last resort in extreme resistence use the kill setting but in the end abandoned it which is why we only see a few of them.




I think my expections were pretty high on this and I love that we got a Shep eppy akin to Reunion, I don't know why I was expecting more team interaction... possibly because I thought it would be along the same lines of CG and although that was a Shep ep, I felt the team concern and they were all involved. In this, as much as I loved the ep, I did miss the 'concern' that I felt from the team in CG... :o
As were mine and I wasn't disapointed that there wasn't as much team intereaction. Mainly because we got a great story surounding Shep and Larin and we did get a few great team interaction moments. In the lab, the jumpers and the in between scenes. Especially the jumper scene it showed just how far we'll go for a friend. So overall not disapointed as I loved that it focused more on Shep and not the team and as to Carter as much of a a fan as I am her absence didn't hurt the story at all.


The score was fabulous.
Quick question.When aren't his scores fabulous?




I felt they were gritty, but I felt as if Larrin was playing Sheppard very well. I don't think she would have sacrificed her team to be honest, because although she comes across as a 'hard ass' and willing to do what it takes. You could tell that, and I think Shep knew that when she kept hoping her friends weren't dead. When it came down to it, I don't think she's that ruthless, certainly not in the league of the likes of Kolya. So while she's happy to beat Shep for information *squeeee* I don't think she'd go as far as murder.
Agreed and I like that. I like how they can be more of an ally than an enemy.




I agree. I don't know what it is about season 4, but it feels very different and I can't put my finger on why. Whether it's the graphics, the team, the sets, or the darker feel of the storylines, but something is different. Not in a bad way, in a different way and I think i'm still getting used to it. :lol: I have loved all the storylines this year, and they are very different to each other. I can't even compare DG to this, because they are so different. And that can only be a good thing. :D
I know what you mean and I agree. No one ep is the same even Adrift and lifeline were very different. I have loved every season of SGA but this one is definatly as good if not better and IMHO 100% proof that Atlantis is still going strong.




:lol: I actually thought that she wasn't too revealing, but the clothes were very snug... great for the fanboys... *reads up* well, some anyway. :P We know that the women always were sexy clothing, and to be honest it doesn't bother me, but then I don't judge someone's abilities based on the clothes they wear. Trouble is hon, isn't that the demographics that they're aiming for?
It wasnt that bad at all I have seen far worse. As much as I loved ST Enterprise the constant push on nudity was a little extreme but it didn't bother me since T'pol was hot. *runs and hides*;) It really gets me when it isn't necesary like on NYPD Blue.




I was hoping for a little more, not necessarily 'tell me about the travelers', more show me about them. Let me see what they have, let me explore their history, but again i'm assuming time, budgets wouldn't allow? Maybe next time though? I agree this could have been a good two parter... others i'm sure will disagree though. :lol:
Well I agree with you however I didn't want them to give too much at one time. By leaving things unanswerd gives them the oportunity to keep the mysterious. I like that.








TBH willow, i'm not interested what 'other people' on LJ have to say, if they can't be bothered to come to GW and discuss it here, then please don't quote them. I'd appreciate it if you could keep things to how you feel and what you've said rather than some anonymouse. Even though we're bound to disagree. ;) I watched the ep over and over and still can't see how Sheppard was dumb? Was it because after saving someone's life he thought that they'd finally reached a mutual level of trust and it turned out they hadn't?
I agree with you I can't figure it out either.


I disagree about a leader not letting their guard down. Sometimes you have to let your guard down and make the first move, show an inkling of trust. How else can you broker and alliance or treaty if someone doesn't make that first move? Weir did it with the Genni, she had to trust them, when she had no reason not to, so why is it so 'dumb' for Sheppard to take a leaf out of her book?

Exactly and it's exactly what we would do.

PG15
October 28th, 2007, 05:51 PM
If Jim and Tim both used to contribute creative efforts to a painting then I would expect them to both sign the work. If they later split up and Jim paints his own paintings with minimal to zero contribution by Tim then yes, I would expect Jim to sign his paintings with only his name. Otherwise it has an air of...I hesitate to use the word "dishonesty" since we've seen how accusations of lying have erupted in the past...but not something fully accurate and correct either.



EXACTLY.

I've heard my share of stories of "creative consultants" actually doing absolutely nothing and gets a check every other friday (I think I heard it on JM's blog, actually). If it were a toss up between trusting some random credits that were pretty much made based on money and contracts and not creative stuff, or trusting the actual person who works at the studios, then I'll go with the person.

You know, the one that talks?

Paul Mullie wrote the story with normal input from all the other writers and SciFi, end of story.

Vapor
October 28th, 2007, 07:00 PM
Now this is more my style. This is what "Prometheus Unbound" should have been like.

There was very little about this ep for me to dislike. It introduces a new group of interesting characters with a cool history and motives for doing what they're doing, which I hope we've just scratched the surface of.

I love that Ronon apparently got his gun from the Travelers. I seriously have been wondering about where he got that gun from a long time, considering he probably had to just steal it from somebody when he was a Runner, and the other Satedans didn't seem to have the same weapon. Just a cool little detail that I enjoyed.

The Wraith showing up in the episode was completely unexpected, but the swarming of their ship with drones was, as always, awesome.

Gee, they sure do get a lotta mileage out of those Atlantis-esque sets, don't they? I like the darker lighting in the corridors. Very moody and atmospheric. Not super-bright and exposed the way it sometimes has been when we're in Atlantis.

I saw the restoration of Larrin after being fed on coming ten-thousand miles away, but it yielded a cool connection between the two characters at the end, when we realize they've both been through the same experience.

Larrin herself is cool, though, if she shows up again, I hope she gets a little extra meat to her backstory, personality, etc. And not just shots of her looking hot as she walks down corridors and pulling surprise plot-reversals on people.

A future alliance with the Travelers could be interesting. Though, sometime later, I think it would be great to see Atlantians, Travelers, and Genii all together in an uneasy alliance for some huge mission. Just thinkin' out loud here.

All in all, "Travelers" was a good one. Way better than "Doppleganger" as far as I'm concerned. A-.

Extrenix
October 28th, 2007, 07:07 PM
NIce episode. I enjoyed it.
Jill Wagner is surely nice lookin' :sheppardanime23:

ToasterOnFire
October 28th, 2007, 07:45 PM
EXACTLY.

I've heard my share of stories of "creative consultants" actually doing absolutely nothing and gets a check every other friday (I think I heard it on JM's blog, actually). If it were a toss up between trusting some random credits that were pretty much made based on money and contracts and not creative stuff, or trusting the actual person who works at the studios, then I'll go with the person.

You know, the one that talks?

Paul Mullie wrote the story with normal input from all the other writers and SciFi, end of story.
Ooookay, I think you're missing my point. It's not a matter of trust - I'm sure that Joe M. wrote whatever eps he said he did while Mulllie wrote whatever eps Joe M. said he did. It's a matter of how regular viewers don't interact with the actual people at the studio and therefore are led to assume that both Ms contributed to an ep based on the only info they have - the credits. So of course there's going to be some confusion in here over who did what, and maybe it's better for those "in the know" to just help correct these assumptions instead of getting in an exasperated huff over the whole thing.

Vapor
October 28th, 2007, 07:49 PM
"Reed Richards"

... HOT!

suse
October 28th, 2007, 07:53 PM
Suse said:

Kirking. :)
How do you come to this conclusion. So a man and woman in the same room now means kirking. Shep acted the way he always does. He snarks and charms his way out of a situation.. with women and men, that is who is he. That does not consitute Kirking to me at all. So all his escape attempts and locking up Larrrin and sending a signal to his people is somehow called kirking.!! So he trusted her.. well after saving her life twice I could see how he thougt he could trust her... she came onto him so again I can't really say how that was kirking on his part. He let his guard down because he trusted her..nothing to do with kirking.

Her people would have arrived in minutes anyway so he didnt really ever stand a chance of keeping the Atlantean ship anyway...

Not at all. :) Let's see. Shep takes a mission (a type of mission he has never taken before) that takes him to a planet where the people have little to no social inhibitions. "Friendly." he smirks to Rodney. Kirking.

He engages in sexual banter with Da Sexy Alien Leather-clad Chica-of-the -Week. The know, the one who has him tortured. The one who threatens to space him. Thinks with the wrong head (again) and gets taken down (again). :rolleyes: Kirking. Trusting someone who has screwed you over several times is suicidal. We've already established he's very much a rogue officer. Which can be a good thing in the atypical situations the SGA team usually find themselves in. Too bad the writers also want to write him as an idiot also.

He somehow always get the girl. Whether she turns the tables or not. Kirking. <<insert disparaging comment of choice ______(here)>>

Snarking and charming is one thing. Gross stupidity is another.

Her people would have arrived in minutes? Seems to me they arrived not long before his teammates. Hardly minutes (in their time).

I don't call all instances of him talking to a woman kirking. Just the ones that seem to me to go over the line. Which seems to be most of the time.

suse

suse
October 28th, 2007, 07:57 PM
Other than.... WTF was up with the wraith hair??? That one dude looked like he had freaking PIGTAILS!!

Perhaps he saw a broadcast episode of SG-1 season 10 and admired Vala's 'do so tried to replicate it.

It wasn't good on him either.

suse

PG15
October 28th, 2007, 08:23 PM
Ooookay, I think you're missing my point. It's not a matter of trust - I'm sure that Joe M. wrote whatever eps he said he did while Mulllie wrote whatever eps Joe M. said he did. It's a matter of how regular viewers don't interact with the actual people at the studio and therefore are led to assume that both Ms contributed to an ep based on the only info they have - the credits. So of course there's going to be some confusion in here over who did what, and maybe it's better for those "in the know" to just help correct these assumptions instead of getting in an exasperated huff over the whole thing.

Ahhhh, ok, yes, I misunderstood. In this case yes, I do agree. I guess I take for granted how "deep" within the fandom I am right about now. :D

ToasterOnFire
October 28th, 2007, 08:36 PM
Ahhhh, ok, yes, I misunderstood. In this case yes, I do agree. I guess I take for granted how "deep" within the fandom I am right about now. :D
Oh, you have no idea. No. Idea. *cough* "And ye, he shall carryeth his flock and bringeth word from the prophet Joseph to the unwashedth masses." :D :D

Short Angel
October 28th, 2007, 09:10 PM
Perhaps he saw a broadcast episode of SG-1 season 10 and admired Vala's 'do so tried to replicate it.

It wasn't good on him either.

suse

Now there's an interesting thought, though I agree, it wasn't good. It kinda made the wraith look like not really scary.

FallenAngelII
October 28th, 2007, 11:18 PM
I've already said what I want to say about this episode in my other two threads on the subject of why I think this episode is part of the Big Six (Major Suckfests of Stargate Atlantis), but here goes again (though in a more concise wording):
What do people think of the make-out session? That John, in the middle of a hostile situation (the Wraith are not to be trusted. He might have lingered or hidden behind the doorframe, waiting for a surprise attack) decided to start making out with the Hot Alien Chick Who Had Earlier Tried to Kill Him Repeatedly, only to, as expected, end up getting disarmed by her and once more taken hostage.

He only got out of the ordeal through the sheer dumb luck that she agreed to maybe, some time in the future, possibly ally herself up with Atlantis.

And then he omitted said important fact (because it makes him a very unsuitable military leader, that'd he'd let his libido get him into that much trouble) when debriefing! So he's not only immature but an omitter of Embarassing Facts.

nekoi
October 28th, 2007, 11:45 PM
Reminded me abit of Prometheus Unbound, only reimagined in the Pegasus galaxy and with a few more characters onboard.

I did, however, enjoy the characters and I honestly think this has been the best acting Joe has done in awhile. It was fun seeing the survival instinct he showed during the Storm once more... not to mention the Travelers are a pretty interesting race.

FallenAngelII
October 28th, 2007, 11:55 PM
Reminded me abit of Prometheus Unbound, only reimagined in the Pegasus galaxy and with a few more characters onboard.

I did, however, enjoy the characters and I honestly think this has been the best acting Joe has done in awhile. It was fun seeing the survival instinct he showed during the Storm once more... not to mention the Travelers are a pretty interesting race.
I don't see why people compare this episode to Prometheus Unbound. Because they both deal with... space ships?

In Prometheus Unbound, the Prometheus was attacked and subsequently hijacked by an alien. In this episode, John was kidnapped to help with making an Ancient space ship operational to non-ATA-gene-carriers and then he hijacked the spaceship.

If anything, this episode is reminiscent of all of the episodes in which SG-1 have been captured by alien forces and then hijacked their ships.

nekoi
October 29th, 2007, 12:06 AM
There's nothing wrong with being reminded of an episode inwhich a spaceship is being hijacked and constantly fought over control with a lead male and a sexy female alien by an episode inwhich a lead male and sexy female alien fight over control of a space ship they both want to hijack.

Of course, in ways it does resemble the other hijacking episodes, but this one, FOR ME, was abit more specific. While the plot was reimagined, the scenario and plot devices were fairly reminiscent.

I'm not saying it's an exact copy, but there are strong resemblences.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 29th, 2007, 12:58 AM
I've already said what I want to say about this episode in my other two threads on the subject of why I think this episode is part of the Big Six (Major Suckfests of Stargate Atlantis), but here goes again (though in a more concise wording):
What do people think of the make-out session? That John, in the middle of a hostile situation (the Wraith are not to be trusted. He might have lingered or hidden behind the doorframe, waiting for a surprise attack) decided to start making out with the Hot Alien Chick Who Had Earlier Tried to Kill Him Repeatedly, only to, as expected, end up getting disarmed by her and once more taken hostage.

He only got out of the ordeal through the sheer dumb luck that she agreed to maybe, some time in the future, possibly ally herself up with Atlantis.

And then he omitted said important fact (because it makes him a very unsuitable military leader, that'd he'd let his libido get him into that much trouble) when debriefing! So he's not only immature but an omitter of Embarassing Facts.

Actually, we've seen a few examples of the Wraith keeping their word. I'm not saying they should be trusted to watch your children... but it's not new.

FallenAngelII
October 29th, 2007, 01:06 AM
Actually, we've seen a few examples of the Wraith keeping their word. I'm not saying they should be trusted to watch your children... but it's not new.
We've also seen many more examples of the Wraith not keeping their word. Also, all of the times (what, that one time?) when the Wraith actually kept their word was during special circumstances, not ones in which they'd just been deprived of a meal and commanded by a lowly human to run away with their tails between their legs.

Hardly comparable.

bluealien
October 29th, 2007, 01:08 AM
Suse said:


Not at all. :) Let's see. Shep takes a mission (a type of mission he has never taken before) that takes him to a planet where the people have little to no social inhibitions. "Friendly." he smirks to Rodney. Kirking.

You can take whatever interpretation you want to out of those lines...but friendly can just mean friendly.


He engages in sexual banter with Da Sexy Alien Leather-clad Chica-of-the -Week. The know, the one who has him tortured. The one who threatens to space him.

She engaged in sexual banter with him.... Sheppard was his usual snarky and witty self with both Larrin and his male captors.


Thinks with the wrong head (again) and gets taken down (again). :rolleyes: Kirking. Trusting someone who has screwed you over several times is suicidal.

What head would that be?.. Really so trusting someone whose life you saved twice is suicidal.... they both had to trust each other at different times during the episode or else they wouldn't have been able to defeat the Wraith... so Shep trusting her again after he had just saved her life wasn't a big leap IMO....


We've already established he's very much a rogue officer.

Oh really, and when was that established?.


Which can be a good thing in the atypical situations the SGA team usually find themselves in. Too bad the writers also want to write him as an idiot also.

I didn't see him being portrayed as an idiot at anytime during the episode.. In fact quite the opposite.... getting away, defeating the Wraith, fixing the console, sending a message to Atlantis and actually forming an Alliance with Larrin were not the actions of an idiot..


He somehow always get the girl. Whether she turns the tables or not. Kirking. <<insert disparaging comment of choice ______(here)>>

He never got the girl at all so again no kirking....



Snarking and charming is one thing. Gross stupidity is another.

I think I have addressed those points..


Her people would have arrived in minutes? Seems to me they arrived not long before his teammates. Hardly minutes (in their time).

Shortly afterwards then!! Either way they arrived soon afterwards and whether Shep was stunned or not wouldnt have effected the outcome... Larrins people arrived and took back the Atlantean ship.


I don't call all instances of him talking to a woman kirking. Just the ones that seem to me to go over the line. Which seems to be most of the time.

suse
The only incident you seem to be able to come up with is where Larrin kissed him... how does that constitute to most of the time.

FallenAngelII
October 29th, 2007, 01:26 AM
You can take whatever interpretation you want to out of those lines...but friendly can just mean friendly.
In the spirit of the immature theme of the episode, it was mostly probably a sexual innuendo.


She engaged in sexual banter with him.... Sheppard was his usual snarky and witty self with both Larrin and his male captors.
It does not matter who engaged in sexual banter. It happened, that's bad enough.


What head would that be?.. Really so trusting someone whose life you saved twice is suicidal.... they both had to trust each other at different times during the episode or else they wouldn't have been able to defeat the Wraith... so Shep trusting her again after he had just saved her life wasn't a big leap IMO....
She had no problems killing her own people to further her purposes. In John's own words, that takes "a special kind of lady". And a Wraith had been in the same room only seconds earlier!


I didn't see him being portrayed as an idiot at anytime during the episode.. In fact quite the opposite.... getting away, defeating the Wraith, fixing the console, sending a message to Atlantis and actually forming an Alliance with Larrin were not the actions of an idiot..
Making out with Hostile Alien with a Wraith possibly lurking nearby is idiotic.


He never got the girl at all so again no kirking....
You don't have to actually get the girl in the sack to be a Kirk (not by Atlantis and Rodney definitions). To even engage in sexual banter, overt flirting and make out is enough. But fine, let's not use that term. Let's use "slut" instead.


Shortly afterwards then!! Either way they arrived soon afterwards and whether Shep was stunned or not wouldnt have effected the outcome... Larrins people arrived and took back the Atlantean ship.
Oh yes, because they have beaming technology. What the Hell would they do once they arrived? Threaten to blow the ship up? John would still have had their leader captive plus drones. He could've forced Larrin to fix the Hyperdrive and then Hyperdrived out of there.

And it does not matter that his actions didn't really affect the outcome. The mere fact that his actions could have is bad enough! It's like saying that if Sam had single-handedly given Rodney given the Wraith a way to reach Earth (by his own volition) but that it didn't really mean much because they were able to get the address out of an Ancient database minutes after, it doesn't really matter.


The only incident you seem to be able to come up with is where Larrin kissed him... how does that constitute to most of the time.
Yes, because obviously he was so opposed to it. Larrin said they should "be friends" and then leaned in. John responded by leaning in himself, opening his mouth and engaging her in a make-out session. A smart man who thinks with the right head would've backed away.

And how engrossed wasn't he in the make-out session if his reflexes were too slow to punch her in the face the minute he felt her yank the stunner out of his back pocket?! This was obviously a man who was expecting to get some Intergalactic Tail and therefore ignored all reason and let all his defenses drop.

Linzi
October 29th, 2007, 02:20 AM
since i'm new, i like character episodes even more because it helps me learn about the character. (duh:p).

what i learned about sheppard was:

*he's very smart.
*he enjoys the opposite sex. :p
*he can proficiently use ancient tech.
*he's compassionate, even towards those that don't really deserve it.
*he's laidback, but not lazy.
*he's garnered a lot of respect from his fellow co-workers, which i believe has turned into love. they'd do anything for him.




sally :)
You have been studying very hard, young Padawan - I'm impressed! :) Your last line brought a lump to my throat! *gulp*

FallenAngelII
October 29th, 2007, 02:24 AM
since i'm new, i like character episodes even more because it helps me learn about the character. (duh).

what i learned about sheppard was:

*he's very smart.
*he enjoys the opposite sex.
*he can proficiently use ancient tech.
*he's compassionate, even towards those that don't really deserve it.
*he's laidback, but not lazy.
*he's garnered a lot of respect from his fellow co-workers, which i believe has turned into love. they'd do anything for him.
* We all knew this. You're new, so you can be forgiven, but it's been stated that he passed the MENSA test once. However, smart people do not make out with the enemy when a Wraith is nearby.
* We also all knew this. This has been brought up time and again on the show.
* This was, however, unexpected and came out of the blue. While John's always standing around asking for dumbed down versions of technobabble and has never shown any proficiency with Ancient tech, he's suddenly able to fiddle with the crystals to fix a broken system broken from the impact of a Wraith energy weapon. I mean, how the hell did he learn that?!
* Also not a surprise. Also, he's a hero. Heroes are like that.
* Say what?
* They'd do anything for anyone on the expedition... except Kavanaugh. like how Ronon wanted to go back for Elizabeth.

cheese
October 29th, 2007, 02:36 AM
A so-so episode.

On the surface it was pretty good, but when you think about it Shepperd is a complete idiot, as mentioned once or twice already, for making out with the alien chick. It shows absloutely no military ability whatsoever. It showed weakness, and should have probably resulted in him being killed or remaining in captivity.

The Travellers were boring. I thought they were going to be aliens, but no, just another race of humans. Wy didn't they just write in that the Genii or something had developed hyperdrives. That would have been fine without having to create this whole new group.

The rest of the main cast felt utterly unused, providing merely filler scenes to break up the Sheppard action.

P-90_177
October 29th, 2007, 02:54 AM
Just a thought here. But does anyone else think that judgeing from sheps history with his enemies. That it would have been more in character for him to turn around and hoot that wraith in the back after he let it go.

Aussie_Fan
October 29th, 2007, 03:00 AM
I'm actually surprised - and mabs it was cause of my low expectations - but I actually enjoyed this ep! Soooo much better then Reunion and Doppelganger.

Though the story was an obvious set up for future eps, it was quite enjoyable. I don't see why people are saying it's a re-hash of PU. Sure, the 'guy and girl running around a lone on a ship' wasn't original but it was totally different to PU. There were a few parts that had me squirming in my seat. "Who didn't see that coming??" moments. And I probably would have made the travelors a bit more desparate and ruthless. Come on, they live in ships with barely enough food, doing whatever they can to survive.

Teyla and Ronan bugged me. But only 'cause they were being used to explain what was going on. "What do you mean??" "Say what??" type stuff. The fact that Carter wasn't there also bugged me. What, she doesn't care about Sheppards were abouts? So far I don't think the writers have been writing her well.


So this ep is offically my second fav so far.. hopefully the good eps will keep on rolling after this!

FallenAngelII
October 29th, 2007, 03:02 AM
Just a thought here. But does anyone else think that judgeing from sheps history with his enemies. That it would have been more in character for him to turn around and hoot that wraith in the back after he let it go.
Not really, John's a man of his word. A person who goes back on their word is not someone I would consider a hero.

Even if the person whose word you're giving it to is a vile serial killer, if you give them their word and they keep their part of the bargain, then you are to keep yours or else, you're even worse than they are, using people for your own purposes and then going back on your word (since they'd just kept up their part of the deal).

John has, also, come in contact with the Common Ground Wraith and might've learned from that experience that the Wraith as a race are not mindless killers who feed just for fun and just enjoy killing humans and that also the Wraith have a sense of honour.

I could care less about honour like "Fight like a man or run away like a sissy" when you're faced with 10 people who overpower you, but when it comes to giving someone your word in important matters of life and death, you keep that word or I'll view you as vile scum!

Actionhank
October 29th, 2007, 03:35 AM
It was a good episode. The Travelers were introduced which puts another player into the game. So now we got
Assurans vs. Wraith vs. Travelers vs. Atlantis expedition
Could be Assurans vs. (Wraith + Travelers + Atlantis expedition) later on.

The line by Larrin telling Sheppard he was kidnapped and blackmailed because he could have said 'no' strongly reminded me of a TNG episode with the Bynars (you know the one with the big backup and with Rikers Minuette holodeck love). 1 or 0 - there is nothing inbetween.

I must say I kind of disliked the voice of Larrin - it is a little too husky. Maybe that's why I don't buy her being a leader. But every beginning is hard.
What I liked were her eyes - very meaningful and expressive. :)
I'm sad for the two traveler guys that didn't make it - I kind of liked them.

One plot thing though - they could have at least said that no earth ship was available. Of course the Apollo or the Deddy would have ruined the plot. :)

Linzi
October 29th, 2007, 03:41 AM
It was a good episode. The Travelers were introduced which puts another player into the game. So now we got
Assurans vs. Wraith vs. Travelers vs. Atlantis expedition
Could be Assurans vs. (Wraith + Travelers + Atlantis expedition) later on.

The line by Larrin telling Sheppard he was kidnapped and blackmailed because he could have said 'no' strongly reminded me of a TNG episode with the Bynars (you know the one with the big backup and with Rikers Minuette holodeck love). 1 or 0 - there is nothing inbetween.

I must say I kind of disliked the voice of Larrin - it is a little too husky. Maybe that's why I don't buy her being a leader. But every beginning is hard.
What I liked were her eyes - very meaningful and expressive. :)
I'm sad for the two traveler guys that didn't make it - I kind of liked them.

One plot thing though - they could have at least said that no earth ship was available. Of course the Apollo or the Deddy would have ruined the plot. :)
I agree with you about the Earth ships not being around. I'd have hated it if either the Apollo or Daedalus had come to the rescue again. I really liked the PJ's there. Then again, I'm pretty fond of those little ships. Also, it's nice to see that Atlantis can't always rely on those big ships being around, because it's too easy a fix, I think. :)

FallenAngelII
October 29th, 2007, 03:44 AM
I must say I kind of disliked the voice of Larrin - it is a little too husky. Maybe that's why I don't buy her being a leader. But every beginning is hard.
Maybe they meant for it to be husky. Her speech is, after all, riddled with double entendres and sexual innuendo. Some huskiness probably adds a little bit of sexy to it.

Actionhank
October 29th, 2007, 03:58 AM
Maybe they meant for it to be husky. Her speech is, after all, riddled with double entendres and sexual innuendo. Some huskiness probably adds a little bit of sexy to it.
Sex sells after all. But if you compare her to other female leaders on Stargate or elsewhere she makes an average leader, not more (so far).
I think she had some problems with the techno babble too - at least I got the feeling. But that's not something I would chalk up on her. :D

eri-chan
October 29th, 2007, 04:05 AM
i really enjoyed the ep when it comes down to it. it did remind me of prometheus unbound but i felt it came out into its own and was better than pu. i didnt like pu the first time i saw it too. and im guessing im one of the rare few that liked the shep/larrin ship although i am against shep kirking.

anyway larrin didnt strike me as the leader of the travellers... more like someone with a lot of power like a very high ranking official.

Actionhank
October 29th, 2007, 04:19 AM
anyway larrin didnt strike me as the leader of the travellers... more like someone with a lot of power like a very high ranking official.
Yeah - maybe a renegade captain or sth.

Ebinia
October 29th, 2007, 05:07 AM
I for one thought this has to be the worst episode of Atlantis ever, it even beats Irresponsible in my book. Being as the lovely and talented Joe Flanigan was on screen for a very large portion of this episode that says a lot! It’s a silly episode and ‘silly’ belongs to the domain of SG1, it was set up as a light-hearted series, especially with RDA involved. Atlantis however is supposed to be darker, it does comedy, indeed very well, but ‘silly’? Nope, just doesn’t fit.
John gets a lot to do in this episode but to go back to ‘Kirk’ is demeaning, don't get me started on the whole convenient closet thing. The rest of the cast are totally wasted, taking on a 5 hour trip to do nothing except accompany John back. The pointless arguing in the jumper does nothing to add to the plot except break up the ‘action’ going on elsewhere.
None of the characters felt true to form, they were like cartoon versions of themselves in this episode.
Notably missing from the episode was Carter, obviously because of filming commitments AT can’t be there for the whole thing (a problem that wouldn’t have arisen if Torri had been allowed to stay) and that absence is very noticeable with no explanation of off-camera busyness or something being given.
In short, I thought this episode sucked. I certainly hope it gets better again after this or it’s not worth bothering with any more.

P-90_177
October 29th, 2007, 05:38 AM
Not really, John's a man of his word. A person who goes back on their word is not someone I would consider a hero.

Even if the person whose word you're giving it to is a vile serial killer, if you give them their word and they keep their part of the bargain, then you are to keep yours or else, you're even worse than they are, using people for your own purposes and then going back on your word (since they'd just kept up their part of the deal).

John has, also, come in contact with the Common Ground Wraith and might've learned from that experience that the Wraith as a race are not mindless killers who feed just for fun and just enjoy killing humans and that also the Wraith have a sense of honour.

I could care less about honour like "Fight like a man or run away like a sissy" when you're faced with 10 people who overpower you, but when it comes to giving someone your word in important matters of life and death, you keep that word or I'll view you as vile scum!

i had thought of common ground. In fact that's the reason why i think he let him go. But in the first season Shep always had moments of having a real dark side. Esspecially when it came to prisoners. Take the wraith prisoner in season 1 for example. when he began to mock him, saying that they'd be destroyed, John just shot him (ok there were other reasons than that, but the point is that he had no remourse and didn't even think twice). Shep is a soldier. He knows that the enemy can't be trusted and will go back on their word. It's something that i really liked about his character. He will do things that are morally ambiguous but because they are for the greater good. Even if that means torture or cold blooded killing. I just think it would have made for a much better scene if he had let the wraith go, then he spins round and shoots him in the back.

FallenAngelII
October 29th, 2007, 05:53 AM
i had thought of common ground. In fact that's the reason why i think he let him go. But in the first season Shep always had moments of having a real dark side. Esspecially when it came to prisoners. Take the wraith prisoner in season 1 for example. when he began to mock him, saying that they'd be destroyed, John just shot him (ok there were other reasons than that, but the point is that he had no remourse and didn't even think twice). Shep is a soldier. He knows that the enemy can't be trusted and will go back on their word. It's something that i really liked about his character. He will do things that are morally ambiguous but because they are for the greater good. Even if that means torture or cold blooded killing. I just think it would have made for a much better scene if he had let the wraith go, then he spins round and shoots him in the back.
Yes, however, he never gave his word only to then turn around and kill someone. That's the key difference here. In war, it's OK to kill someone for the greater good (well, unless said person is innocent). But it's not OK to promise someone life in exchange for something and then kill them anyway once you've gotten said thing. That makes you one of the vilest kinds of person imaginable.

Ruffles
October 29th, 2007, 06:20 AM
Just a thought here. But does anyone else think that judgeing from sheps history with his enemies. That it would have been more in character for him to turn around and hoot that wraith in the back after he let it go.

Hard to do when his gun was out of ammo (dead battery, whatever). If he had ammo, I think he would have stunned the Wraith, tossed him in a holding cell, and dropped him off on a planet with a gate. Because Sheppard is a man of his word.

PhatChance
October 29th, 2007, 06:52 AM
This could've been a good or even great episode but got shotdown quick once Shep hormone kicked in. And you got the next hour of the worst hour of television.

Instead of being an episode to really introduced this new race (HELLO THE EPISODE IS NAMED TRAVELERS) you're served with an hour of Shep idiocy fest.

What really matter: Travelers is made known
What is re-assured: Shep is still an idiot

FallenAngelII
October 29th, 2007, 06:55 AM
BTW, was anyone else thouroughly annoyed by the fact that this supposedly tough Alien Leader who is cold as ice, cunning and physically fit was still just a little girl when she came in contact with that first Wraith?

When she sees it, she freezes on the spot and then slowly gets her gun up and fumbles with it, giving the Wraith enough time to knock the gun away. And John had to show up and save her life. And then he had to do it again and has that girl no brains?!

The 2nd time she had to engage a Wraith, she was unarmed! What did she think she was gonna do, snap its neck by kicking it? A smart person would have ran as fast as they could (throw a punch or two to get it to move out of the way and then made a run for it).

Actionhank
October 29th, 2007, 07:18 AM
BTW, was anyone else thouroughly annoyed by the fact that this supposedly tough Alien Leader who is cold as nice, cunning and physically fit was still just a little girl when she came in contact with that first Wraith?

When she sees it, she freezes on the spot and then slowly gets her gun up and fumbles with it, giving the Wraith enough time to knock the gun away. And John had to show up and save her life. And then he had to do it again and has that girl no brains?!

The 2nd time she had to engage a Wraith, she was unarmed! What did she think she was gonna do, snap its neck by kicking it? A smart person would have ran as fast as they could (throw a punch or two to get it to move out of the way and then made a run for it).
Hmmm, not very souvereign indeed. And of course the wraith didn't suck her empty. :rolleyes:

sweetsamurai
October 29th, 2007, 07:47 AM
Well I didn't hate the episode because:

I loved how Sheppard was clever enough to take the Ancient War ship for himself at the start! I was all excited and screaming, 'Go Sheppard!".

I loved the moment when Sheppard took out the two wraiths with the drones on the same ship he was in. I loved the huge explosion of the wraith ship in space! KOOL.

I loved how Lorne and the team went to find and rescue Sheppard but at the same time I was shouting how they should do the same for Weir.

Just wondering... If Sheppard had been taken to the same place as Weir (seeing as the Replicators are at War with the Wraith and by chance Weir may have been taken prisoner but the Wraith in their replicator bubble) if the Team would still go and rescue Sheppard? lol.

I am intruiged about this new 'maybe' Alliance which might happen. They need some sort of progress in technology. Good, good.

HOWEVER, Ugh - like a lot of people have pointed out, I DID NOT LIKE THE cheapening of Stargate.

Joe - please do not water this down with red hot sex and make me have to look away from the screen. That kiss at the end was so obvious yet I still thought that this should not have happened.

Sheppard is not a fool (well, I don't think he is, not sure if the writers agree) and he would not be so brash and silly to have a woman take his gun!

And that closet scene - just made me want the Wraith to notice them so this screeching scene would end. Please Wraith, suck the life out of this scene , now! UGH. JOE joe joe - what is up with you?

And when that cheap girl ( can't even remeber her name) kept punching John - HELLO? Is he not one of the best trained soldiers? BLOCK!!!!! DUH!

I hope this does not continue in Stargate - or I just might.....ah, I would never stop watching Stargate - but please take note and Joe get some class and intelligence in your writing.

I miss Teyla and Ronan!

OOH - I loved the directing!

Jumper_One
October 29th, 2007, 07:49 AM
BTW, was anyone else thouroughly annoyed by the fact that this supposedly tough Alien Leader who is cold as ice, cunning and physically fit was still just a little girl when she came in contact with that first Wraith?

When she sees it, she freezes on the spot and then slowly gets her gun up and fumbles with it, giving the Wraith enough time to knock the gun away. And John had to show up and save her life. And then he had to do it again and has that girl no brains?!

The 2nd time she had to engage a Wraith, she was unarmed! What did she think she was gonna do, snap its neck by kicking it? A smart person would have ran as fast as they could (throw a punch or two to get it to move out of the way and then made a run for it).

yep I agree. Shep had to be the hero once again

mizzoueng
October 29th, 2007, 07:59 AM
Overall this episode was good, seeing the travelers ships was interesting.

I thought they looked like the snow speeders from Star Wars Empire Stirkes back, but bigger.

Why don't the jumpers have proximety sensors? Shouldn't have Shep seen them a long time before they were in weapons range and firing on him?

He should have also had enough sense to cloak and then figure out what was going on.

Once aboard the Aurora class ship, it was nice to see a Lantian ship in near pristine condition.

Shep should have killed the two guards when he had the chance and also should have just evacuated the space where the woman was and then that would have taken care of that.

We finally found out where Ronan got his gun, more likely it was from a Traveler settlement, one of those that the woman was talking about when their ships break down beyond repair.

We also learn that drones DO NOT pass through ALL sheilds. That solves that mystery right there.

FallenAngelII
October 29th, 2007, 08:13 AM
We also learn that drones DO NOT pass through ALL sheilds. That solves that mystery right there.
Say what now? We learned this when and now?

The drones were used only once, on the Wraith Cruiser. And Wraith ships don't have shields.

Actionhank
October 29th, 2007, 08:26 AM
Say what now? We learned this when and now?

The drones were used only once, on the Wraith Cruiser. And Wraith ships don't have shields.
A minor thing that struck me several times now - when shooting at an enemy ship - why so many drones? It looks like 3-4 would have been enough. This way I'm sure the Lanteans did run out of ammo fairly quick...

FallenAngelII
October 29th, 2007, 08:48 AM
A minor thing that struck me several times now - when shooting at an enemy ship - why so many drones? It looks like 3-4 would have been enough. This way I'm sure the Lanteans did run out of ammo fairly quick...
They were under attack. The shields had failed. John probably used up all of the remaining drones for a quick finishing off, not risking another hit damaging even more the ship.

mizzoueng
October 29th, 2007, 09:04 AM
Say what now? We learned this when and now?

The drones were used only once, on the Wraith Cruiser. And Wraith ships don't have shields.

If someone has screen quotes or on tape, check this and confirm:

Towards the end when Loren, Rodney, Teyla, and Ronon are in the jumper and arrive at the scene they are trying to decide who to shoot at:

Loren: Who should we target?

Ronan: Why don't we target the other ships? (refering to Traveler ships on the scene)

Rodney: No, thats a bad idea.

Teyla: Why is that Rodney?

Rodney: We know nothing about these people, the drone could hit any number of critical systems or just bounce harmlessly off their shields, there are too many variables, we should target the Lantian ships engines and prevent it from leaving.....

Deejay435
October 29th, 2007, 09:15 AM
Meh.

I will say for it that it was better than PU, but I saw PU all over this episode. I hated PU, and thought Travelers was much better, but it was still really derivative to me. That went through my mind the entire episode, and the thought "Well, his Kirking is going to get him into trouble again."

I agree with a post someone made pages ago-if you're going to have one character carry a whole episode, shouldn't we as an audience learn something about them we hadn't before? Or let there be growth in the character at least?

That was kind of a let down.

I thought it was very predictable. If I knew Larrin was going to use that kiss to grab the gun from his waist, Sheppard should have known.

Why was Rodney in charge? Shouldn't Lorne have been? It sure didn't play that way. I would have liked just a line that Carter had put Lorne in charge of the rescue. The way this played out it seemed like Rodney was in charge of the whole operation-which makes the kind of sense that is not.

That-and the entire rescue scene was sort of....useless anyway.

The Travellers themselves as a society though, I want to know more about. As long as it doesn't involve Shepard Kirking Larrin again.

ToasterOnFire
October 29th, 2007, 09:26 AM
Recent discussion made me remember another reason why I had a problem with Larrin - she was yet another female guest star who either hit on or was hit on by Shep and/or McKay. How many eps has that happened now? I count Sanctuary, Brotherhood, Aurora, Epiphany, GUP and almost any ep featuring Carter with McKay, Tower, and Inferno. Fewer female guest stars were "targeted" in s3, but that's largely because most of the guest stars were men instead of women. So I'm disappointed to see the trend continue in s4 with Larrin. :mckay:

By comparison, how many male guest stars had any romantic inklings with any of the female cast? I can think of Simon and Michael with Weir - that's it. And there have been tons of male guest stars in the past 3 seasons. So that makes the men more independent characters while many of the women have the tag "Shep's gal" or "Rodney's crush" attached to them.

GateLadyM
October 29th, 2007, 10:12 AM
The episode was just to regurgitate John Sheppard, Space Stud. I thought he disappeared the end of season 2, but maybe not. I hope this is a one-off because I really don't want to see anymore of Shep's sexcapades.

More Lorne though. Lorne is always good. :)

Mattathias2.0
October 29th, 2007, 10:22 AM
I agree, but at least they gave a warning in the teasers it'd be like that :p

metabog
October 29th, 2007, 10:31 AM
Meh.
I thought it was very predictable. If I knew Larrin was going to use that kiss to grab the gun from his waist, Sheppard should have known.


Yea but you were watching the show not getting jiggy with a hot traveller woman.

jds1982
October 29th, 2007, 11:14 AM
Recent discussion made me remember another reason why I had a problem with Larrin - she was yet another female guest star who either hit on or was hit on by Shep and/or McKay. How many eps has that happened now? I count Sanctuary, Brotherhood, Aurora, Epiphany, GUP and almost any ep featuring Carter with McKay, Tower, and Inferno. Fewer female guest stars were "targeted" in s3, but that's largely because most of the guest stars were men instead of women. So I'm disappointed to see the trend continue in s4 with Larrin. :mckay:

By comparison, how many male guest stars had any romantic inklings with any of the female cast? I can think of Simon and Michael with Weir - that's it. And there have been tons of male guest stars in the past 3 seasons. So that makes the men more independent characters while many of the women have the tag "Shep's gal" or "Rodney's crush" attached to them.

You know the only "relationship" they've done well was the one with Beckett and the Hoffan woman.

PG15
October 29th, 2007, 12:49 PM
This could've been a good or even great episode but got shotdown quick once Shep hormone kicked in. And you got the next hour of the worst hour of television.

Instead of being an episode to really introduced this new race (HELLO THE EPISODE IS NAMED TRAVELERS) you're served with an hour of Shep idiocy fest.

What really matter: Travelers is made known
What is re-assured: Shep is still an idiot

Pray tell, when did you think Shep's hormones "kicked in"?

Deejay435
October 29th, 2007, 12:52 PM
Yea but you were watching the show not getting jiggy with a hot traveller woman.

Yes, but I'm also not a trained military commander who should know better than getting jiggy with a hot alien woman who has kidnapped me, shown no level of trustworthiness, threatened to kill me, and knocked me around for my trouble. Not only that, but have the unmitigated gall to blame me, the kidnapping victim, for the problems said kidnapping caused.

Pegasus_SGA
October 29th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Pray tell, when did you think Shep's hormones "kicked in"?

It must have been when he refused to give them information... no wait, that's not right. What about when he kicked the Aurora class ship into hyperdrive without the inertial dampners... darnit still not right! I wonder if it was when he fixed the chair, or secured Larrin... or managed to avoid the wraith? No wait that can't be it... I'm not doing very well...

So given all of that Phatchance, enquiring minds want to know! Oh I know! That 1 second kiss out of 42 minutes of episode! That was it, wasn't it? :rolleyes: Silly me!

Linzi
October 29th, 2007, 01:01 PM
It must have been when he refused to give them information... no wait, that's not right. What about when he kicked the Aurora class ship into hyperdrive without the inertial dampners... darnit still not right! I wonder if it was when he fixed the chair, or secured Larrin... or managed to avoid the wraith? No wait that can't be it... I'm not doing very well...

So given all of that Phatchance, enquiring minds want to know! Oh I know! That 1 second kiss out of 42 minutes of episode! That was it, wasn't it? :rolleyes: Silly me!
Yep! My God, what a complete tart Shep is, letting a woman kiss him like that. He should go to hell for that, don't you think? ;) I find it bizarre that some folks find a woman and man kissing so utterly offensive, especially when one takes the other by surprise and then steals his gun! :lol:

Pegasus_SGA
October 29th, 2007, 01:11 PM
Yep! My God, what a complete tart Shep is, letting a woman kiss him like that. He should go to hell for that, don't you think? ;) I find it bizarre that some folks find a woman and man kissing so utterly offensive, especially when one takes the other by surprise and then steals his gun! :lol:

I know! Shocking isn't it. Personally, Linz I think it's us who should be pissed because we're not shippers, and from all accounts Shep's obviously got the hots for Larrin. Oh no, what's a non shipper to do?! :sheppardanime32:

I agree Linz, I never realised that Shep was such a tart. You know a young, healthy and if I may say dashing young man meets a hot chic, and all hell breaks loose. Yet I don't remember this when Rodney started dating Katie in a middle of his own personal crisis! I mean the man was dying and what does he do? He goes out on a date! Shame on him... oh wait, no that's okay cos it's just Rodney! I have to say though, Larrin and Shep could have picked a more opportune time to have that one second kiss, but nope the blood and adrenaline was pumping and sometimes in the heat of the moment inhibations were cast aside for a big passion session. That's what it was, wasn't it Linz? Shep and Larrin getting it on and making out for a whole 40 minutes!

Linzi
October 29th, 2007, 01:14 PM
I know! Shocking isn't it. Personally, Linz I think it's us who should be pissed because we're not shippers, and from all accounts Shep's obviously got the hots for Larrin. Oh no, what's a non shipper to do?! :sheppardanime32:

I agree Linz, I never realised that Shep was such a tart. You know a young, healthy and if I may say dashing young man meets a hot chic, and all hell breaks loose. Yet I don't remember this when Rodney started dating Katie in a middle of his own personal crisis! I mean the man was dying and what does he do? He goes out on a date! Shame on him... oh wait, no that's okay cos it's just Rodney! I have to say though, Larrin and Shep could have picked a more opportune time to have that one second kiss, but nope the blood and adrenaline was pumping and sometimes in the heat of the moment inhibations were cast aside for a big passion session. That's what it was, wasn't it Linz? Shep and Larrin getting it on and making out for a whole 40 minutes!
Well, it's always possible that they got down and dirty for the full 43 minutes and we hallucinated the rest of the plot, I suppose? I mean, being non-shippers, maybe if any team member gets within a foot of another we automatically go into shut down mode, and make up our own scenarios? Nah, that can't be right, cos I don't remember seeing Shep in the infirmary, under the blanket in scrubs, do you? ;) Damn it, Paul Mullie, why didn't you write that? ;)

bluealien
October 29th, 2007, 01:23 PM
It must have been when he refused to give them information... no wait, that's not right. What about when he kicked the Aurora class ship into hyperdrive without the inertial dampners... darnit still not right! I wonder if it was when he fixed the chair, or secured Larrin... or managed to avoid the wraith? No wait that can't be it... I'm not doing very well...

So given all of that Phatchance, enquiring minds want to know! Oh I know! That 1 second kiss out of 42 minutes of episode! That was it, wasn't it? :rolleyes: Silly me!

I was thinking the same thing Peg.... those pesky hormones really seem to be getting the credit for everything!! When in reality the little critters may only have kicked in for a mere couple of seconds.... around about the time the hot alien babe lip locked with our intrepid hero, who had saved her life not only once, but twice, and heaven forbid said hero should think for a moment that he could trust the devious wench.... so the pesky homones went on a rampage for a whole 3 seconds and look what happened... um ....sorry what did happen?? ... the galaxy came to an end.!! nope... Atlantis was doomed? ... nope!!..

Oh I remember, Shep fell down and the hot alien's people came and locked him up again... and the galaxy was doomed!!.. Err.. nope ...
Well what happened then !! Well, the hot alien babe was in fact grateful to our brave hero for saving her life, and was all for forming an alliance with his people... who may in turn help defeat the Wraith in the future.... and everyone will live happily ever after..;)

Pegasus_SGA
October 29th, 2007, 01:23 PM
Well, it's always possible that they got down and dirty for the full 43 minutes and we hallucinated the rest of the plot, I suppose? I mean, being non-shippers, maybe if any team member gets within a foot of another we automatically go into shut down mode, and make up our own scenarios? Nah, that can't be right, cos I don't remember seeing Shep in the infirmary, under the blanket in scrubs, do you? ;) Damn it, Paul Mullie, why didn't you write that? ;)

There was a plot! :eek: Really? I dont remember seeing a plot, it must have been because I was too busy looking at the pretteh... isn't that what I normally do anyway? I think you're right there hon. I mean about ten minutes into the ep, I actually saw and witnessed with my own eyes no less, SHEP making eye contact with larrin... and from that point on I just knew he was gonna be the man hussy that he always is.

On your second point! Brace yourself Linz! I'm afraid I will have to disagree with you on this! :eek: It was actually 42 minutes! i'm sorry, I know it must be a shock to you, but I felt it best that that sort of information came from a friend. *huggles* I'm sorry to have been the one to tell you that. Am I forgiven? :o

PG15
October 29th, 2007, 01:26 PM
Hey, what's wrong with all you females? Aren't you supposed to be offended or something? That's what stereotypical females do faced with an episode like this, so obviously you should do the same!

I'm so confused!

Linzi
October 29th, 2007, 01:31 PM
Hey, what's wrong with all you females? Aren't you supposed to be offended or something? That's what stereotypical females do faced with an episode like this, so obviously you should do the same!

I'm so confused!
Was I offeneded that Larrin was a sexy, smart, devious woman, who would do anything to help her people survive, including use her feminine wiles? Nope. Seen it done many times in real life, done it myself on occasion - well not to save my people, more like to get hubby to say yes to something I want to buy, but you get the idea? ;) In TV both women and men can be stereotyped, and? So? Who cares. Not me. As long as I'm entertained, that's just fine. Besides, in a 43 minutes episode we can't possibly get to see anyone in a true light, can we? We just get snapshots of them. So, I'm not offended at all. :)

Edit: Just saw your last sentence. I'm confused too! :)

Pegasus_SGA
October 29th, 2007, 02:00 PM
I was thinking the same thing Peg.... those pesky hormones really seem to be getting the credit for everything!! When in reality the little critters may only have kicked in for a mere couple of seconds.... around about the time the hot alien babe lip locked with our intrepid hero, who had saved her life not only once, but twice, and heaven forbid said hero should think for a moment that he could trust the devious wench.... so the pesky homones went on a rampage for a whole 3 seconds and look what happened... um ....sorry what did happen?? ... the galaxy came to an end.!! nope... Atlantis was doomed? ... nope!!..

I agree hon, I can see why people are... passionate about it though! That was the most crucial part of the ep when those hormones came into play. Pesky lil critters creep up on you when you least expect them to, don't they?

I know! I mean it's not like they were working together to defeat the wraith or anything, and Shep had thought they'd put their differences behind them! Heaven forbid he erred for a whole second! He should be flogged for his lack of judgement... preferabbly though with his shirt off! I hope you're reading this Mr M. ;)


Oh I remember, Shep fell down and the hot alien's people came and locked him up again... and the galaxy was doomed!!.. Err.. nope ...
Well what happened then !! Well, the hot alien babe was in fact grateful to our brave hero for saving her life, and was all for forming an alliance with his people... who may in turn help defeat the Wraith in the future.... and everyone will live happily ever after..;)

By jove you've got it in one hon! Oh no, i'm sure Shep's words didn't make any difference to them having a tentative alliance... i'm sure it's what he gave her afterwards! ;)


Hey, what's wrong with all you females? Aren't you supposed to be offended or something? That's what stereotypical females do faced with an episode like this, so obviously you should do the same!

I'm so confused!

Oh yeah silly me, I guess i'm not so stereotypical. I love strong sassy women, especially ones that do a good job of beating the crap out of shep. Offended? Nah, i guess i'm mature enough to know how the game is played. :lol: And if I were in larrin's shoes (apart from not being able to run in those FMB's) ;) I'd certainly give Shep a run for his money. :D

Linzi
October 29th, 2007, 02:06 PM
I agree hon, I can see why people are... passionate about it though! That was the most crucial part of the ep when those hormones came into play. Pesky lil critters creep up on you when you least expect them to, don't they?

I know! I mean it's not like they were working together to defeat the wraith or anything, and Shep had thought they'd put their differences behind them! Heaven forbid he erred for a whole second! He should be flogged for his lack of judgement... preferabbly though with his shirt off! I hope you're reading this Mr M. ;)



By jove you've got it in one hon! Oh no, i'm sure Shep's words didn't make any difference to them having a tentative alliance... i'm sure it's what he gave her afterwards! ;)



Oh yeah silly me, I guess i'm not so stereotypical. I love strong sassy women, especially ones that do a good job of beating the crap out of shep. Offended? Nah, i guess i'm mature enough to know how the game is played. :lol: And if I were in larrin's shoes (apart from not being able to run in those FMB's) ;) I'd certainly give Shep a run for his money. :D
Poor Shep would be in serious trouble if you were after him! I think he'd be terrified, and quite rightly so ;) I'd love to see you running in Larrin's high boots though! :)

kvasir 2.0
October 29th, 2007, 02:47 PM
I missed the first 10 minutes of the show but from what I saw it is ridiculously lame. The last 10 minutes were stereotypical piss poor writing. Teyla gets the talk first line. Rodney gets to say I don't know and Ronan gets to say the brave yet not entirely smart line. I mean come on, does Shepard only use his little head to make a decision?

And I know they like to make him into a humanitarian but he was taken hostage and decides to stun his tormentors instead of killing them on the spot. That was just plain dumb. They have to die because of the Wraith attack.... Such a lame copt out.

And also,
When have Aurora class ships ever been controled by the command chair, in other episodes it shows it being piloted and drones being controlled by manual controls, not a controll chair, and WRAITH CRUISERS DO NOT CARRY DARTS!

Pegasus_SGA
October 29th, 2007, 02:52 PM
Poor Shep would be in serious trouble if you were after him! I think he'd be terrified, and quite rightly so ;) I'd love to see you running in Larrin's high boots though! :)

:lol: when you're right you're right! If i were in thos FMB's i'd probably whump myself! :eek: Anyway FAII designated me Shep's guardian angel. Isn't that nice? :P

Linzi
October 29th, 2007, 03:03 PM
:lol: when you're right you're right! If i were in thos FMB's i'd probably whump myself! :eek: Anyway FAII designated me Shep's guardian angel. Isn't that nice? :P
Well yes, that's very nice. Poor Shep. He has my sympathies...;)

Jill_Ion
October 29th, 2007, 03:07 PM
I'll need to watch Travelers again before properly posting a review, but I do have one question...

When can I use my feminine wiles on Shep????

kirmit
October 29th, 2007, 03:11 PM
Overall I liked the episode, thought Larrin was great and hope to see alot more of her, it did feel a little like 'prometheus unbound' but the recycling of ideas has been going on for years now so I'm not really bothered. I have to say though the part when they're in the jumper and Lorne says something about they have no idea how many ships are out there or something and Ronon says 'Would it matter?' really made me cringe. I hate the way SGA is constantly forcing this family feel, we're all soo close blah blah, some things shouldn't need to be said. They want it to give us a family feel do it naturally like at the end of doppelganger when they just all sat together, they don't have to make the characters actually say it, it makes it seem too fake imo.

Linzi
October 29th, 2007, 03:17 PM
I'll need to watch Travelers again before properly posting a review, but I do have one question...

When can I use my feminine wiles on Shep????
Get in line, hon! ;)

Mitchell82
October 29th, 2007, 04:34 PM
Sorry Suse I've got to agree with Bluealien on this.

You can take whatever interpretation you want to out of those lines...but friendly can just mean friendly.
She engaged in sexual banter with him.... Sheppard was his usual snarky and witty self with both Larrin and his male captors.
Exactly. I don't see this as Shep Kirking at all he was litteraly at her desposal.




What head would that be?..
I'm going to assume she meant the organ "south of the border".

Really so trusting someone whose life you saved twice is suicidal.... they both had to trust each other at different times during the episode or else they wouldn't have been able to defeat the Wraith... so Shep trusting her again after he had just saved her life wasn't a big leap IMO....
Agreed.





I didn't see him being portrayed as an idiot at anytime during the episode.. In fact quite the opposite.... getting away, defeating the Wraith, fixing the console, sending a message to Atlantis and actually forming an Alliance with Larrin were not the actions of an idiot..
Again i agree. THis ep seems to be loved by most except those not Shep fans.




He never got the girl at all so again no kirking....
Agreed but I'm sure she is refering to the kissing scene.









Shortly afterwards then!! Either way they arrived soon afterwards and whether Shep was stunned or not wouldnt have effected the outcome... Larrins people arrived and took back the Atlantean ship.


The only incident you seem to be able to come up with is where Larrin kissed him... how does that constitute to most of the time.

Agreed. I don't think those that say he was Kirking the whole ep have a leg to stand on.

Falcon Horus
October 29th, 2007, 04:48 PM
I just watched Travelers....

Phew... It's a surprise I stayed awake during the episode... Boring!

There was no Carter, so that was a plus, but that's just about it.

I giggled uncontrollably with Teyla's eye-roll at the end of the episode and that's about all the smiling/laughing I did.

This was 40 minutes of Sheppard, and to some like Pegasus_SGA I assume that's fun to watch. Whumpage and all. But for me personally, no thank you.

This was a waste of 42 minutes of film (or time or whatever).

Larrin wasn't all that bad. I don't mind seeing her again, as long as they can control the Kirk-iness cause dude.... annoying beyond belief.

Again, have yet to see an episode I truly like.
DG is a possible like, and Lifeline was a great Elizabeth episode.

Ruffles
October 29th, 2007, 05:34 PM
Hey, what's wrong with all you females? Aren't you supposed to be offended or something? That's what stereotypical females do faced with an episode like this, so obviously you should do the same!

I'm so confused!

Stereotypes? Here? Say it isn't so.


Was I offeneded that Larrin was a sexy, smart, devious woman, who would do anything to help her people survive, including use her feminine wiles? Nope. Seen it done many times in real life, done it myself on occasion - well not to save my people, more like to get hubby to say yes to something I want to buy, but you get the idea? ;) In TV both women and men can be stereotyped, and? So? Who cares. Not me. As long as I'm entertained, that's just fine. Besides, in a 43 minutes episode we can't possibly get to see anyone in a true light, can we? We just get snapshots of them. So, I'm not offended at all. :)

Edit: Just saw your last sentence. I'm confused too! :)

What she said.


Oh yeah silly me, I guess i'm not so stereotypical. I love strong sassy women, especially ones that do a good job of beating the crap out of shep. Offended? Nah, i guess i'm mature enough to know how the game is played. :lol: And if I were in larrin's shoes (apart from not being able to run in those FMB's) ;) I'd certainly give Shep a run for his money. :D

*sigh* Me too.

426185
October 29th, 2007, 07:02 PM
Questions: Why didn’t the traveller’s ships show up on the jumper’s radar/sensors? Same question the sensors they placed around the Stargate. What’s more, why wasn’t sheppard flying around with the cloak on? I know when we examine his character he is meant to be reckless etc – but as an American Airforce pilot you’d think he would have just a touch of common sense. Finally, and here is the really important question –what have these Travellers been doing for the past 10,000 years? Surely they would have been aware of the rise of the Wraith and the war with the Ancients so why at some point didn’t they leave the Pegasus galaxy? The idea that they have just been flying around the galaxy for 10,000 years is ridiculous and almost insulting to the intelligence of viewers.

PG15
October 29th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Questions: Why didn’t the traveller’s ships show up on the jumper’s radar/sensors? Same question the sensors they placed around the Stargate.

Shep wasn't scanning for anything. It seems that a screen usually appears (the head-up display) when the sensor is on.


What’s more, why wasn’t sheppard flying around with the cloak on? I know when we examine his character he is meant to be reckless etc – but as an American Airforce pilot you’d think he would have just a touch of common sense.

Wasting power by turning on the cloak while above a friendly planet with nothing around is not common sense.


Finally, and here is the really important question –what have these Travellers been doing for the past 10,000 years? Surely they would have been aware of the rise of the Wraith and the war with the Ancients so why at some point didn’t they leave the Pegasus galaxy? The idea that they have just been flying around the galaxy for 10,000 years is ridiculous and almost insulting to the intelligence of viewers.

They didn't seem to have intergalactic hyperdrives so they really couldn't have headed out of the galaxy. Also, nowhere did they say that they've been in existence for the last 10,000 years; we don't know when the tradition of traveling around started.

Jill_Ion
October 29th, 2007, 07:33 PM
Get in line, hon! ;)

D'oh!! :lol:

It wasn't a fan-damn-tastic ep, but I definitely enjoyed it more than some others here. (Go me. :) )

Gotta go watch it again - tomorrow. (Go me x 2. :) )

Jill_Ion
October 29th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Personally, I think SGA is becoming shallow and boring this season. What on earth happened to the show? There used to be good episodes in S3 and before, but now, it's all about reused scripts, poor writing/acting and zero character development. The only decent episodes so far were Doppelganger and maybe Reunion in my opinion.

Also, this latest ep only had two good things in it: the "Reed Richards" line and Jill Wagner being so hot...

The 4th season is a huge disappointment to me, and I hope the future episodes will be a lot better than these.

Drake, please don't be angry with me when I say your post made me giggle a bit. It's not that you disliked three of the eps, that's your opinion and whatever you think is perfectly fine. What specifically I found amusing is that we're only 25% through the season, and it's already a huge disappointment? Even though you thought 2 of the 5 eps were decent? So, out of a possible 20 eps, 75% which haven't even aired yet, you disliked 15%. How does 15% figure out to be a "huge disappointment?"

Again, I'm not attacking or jumping your ass. Just having some fun. :)

suse
October 29th, 2007, 07:49 PM
You can take whatever interpretation you want to out of those lines...but friendly can just mean friendly.

Sure it can. Not with *that* smirk though. imo. Am I allowed to have one?




She engaged in sexual banter with him.... Sheppard was his usual snarky and witty self with both Larrin and his male captors.

Witty? Really? I've never seen him rise above being more than a cheap rip-off of O'Neill, so witty is in the eye of the beholder. :) Innuendo through both words and smirks.




What head would that be?.. Really so trusting someone whose life you saved twice is suicidal.... they both had to trust each other at different times during the episode or else they wouldn't have been able to defeat the Wraith... so Shep trusting her again after he had just saved her life wasn't a big leap IMO.... IMO it was.




Oh really, and when was that established?. Rising. ;)




I didn't see him being portrayed as an idiot at anytime during the episode.. In fact quite the opposite.... getting away, defeating the Wraith, fixing the console, sending a message to Atlantis and actually forming an Alliance with Larrin were not the actions of an idiot..
Granted. But I never said *every* action he took was idiotic. However being lead by the wrong half of the anatomy *is*. Once bitten and all that. She hadn't exactly shown trustworthiness. And the ship was a mighty big reason to turn on him.




He never got the girl at all so again no kirking....

Kirk didn't always get the girl either. But the pairing (sexual tension such as it was considering the utter lack of chemistry) was there regardless.





Shortly afterwards then!! Either way they arrived soon afterwards and whether Shep was stunned or not wouldnt have effected the outcome... Larrins people arrived and took back the Atlantean ship. But neither Shep or Larrin knew when either side would arrive. It was a toss-up.



The only incident you seem to be able to come up with is where Larrin kissed him... how does that constitute to most of the time.

Most of the time does not necessarily mean only this ep. Kirking is what Shep does. It's in his genes as much as the Ancient gene is.

I also found the whole "suddenly we trust each other to not go back on our word" outcome to be a poor wrap to an episode designed to introduce a 'sort-of ally" that *might* work with the Atlantis team until they can stab them in the back for more ships/Atlantis itself.

ETA: Just to be clear, it's not so much *just* this episode, it's several other episodes with this topping it off. And the teaser of this episode. :eek:
A small part might be that I've never found Shep to be interesting - :indeed: I find him annoying - so I am not willing to cut him much slack.



I don't think you and I will ever agree on this point, so...

suse

Vapor
October 29th, 2007, 08:00 PM
Sex sells after all. But if you compare her to other female leaders on Stargate or elsewhere she makes an average leader, not more (so far).
I think she had some problems with the techno babble too - at least I got the feeling. But that's not something I would chalk up on her. :D

Y'know, I expected her to have some issues with the sci-fi talk, but she did a better job than what I was bracing myself for.

SG is riddled with actors that are suppose to be playing aliens and they just end up sounding like exactly what they are- some Canadian/American guy/girl, who doesn't have a clue what a sub-space signal is, let alone how to say the words without them sounding phoney as all get-out.

As far as I'm concerned, Larrin is somewhere in the middle. She still sounds like she's from two houses down the street from me, but she doesn't sound fake as a person in authority either.

Jill_Ion
October 29th, 2007, 08:09 PM
I've been having a fun time, reading through at least half the posts in this thread. Wow, I really need to go back and see how I could have missed the 42 minutes of porn so many people assure me this episode contained! I mean, hot nekkid sex right in front of the Wraith kiddies! How could I have missed the leering and exposing and writhing with passion?!

:lol:

I saw two kisses. Not deep enough to know whether either of them had a tonsillectomy, but more than one should give his or her mother (knowmesayin'?). I kiss my hubby more passionately when he leaves for work.

Once again, a woman hits on Shep for her own reasons and he gets the blame.

Vapor
October 29th, 2007, 08:18 PM
I think he's getting the blame for allowing it to happen at all, when it would have been smarter not to go there, despite his obvious physical attraction to her.

Personally, I didn't mind it much, considering the type of character Shep is written as. Like it or not, this is sort of consistent.

Jill_Ion
October 29th, 2007, 08:28 PM
Yeah, it would've been smarter to not go there, I agree. But it wouldn't be TV then.

If it's a little too much of a television moment for some people, then OK, I can see that. Otherwise, not a bit deal to me. And definitely not the hot steamy squishy ball of love so many here have made it out to be!

As for consistency, Shep gets a little action (and in this case, no action) once a year on average? It's consistent, just not frequent.

suse
October 29th, 2007, 08:35 PM
I think he's getting the blame for allowing it to happen at all, when it would have been smarter not to go there, despite his obvious physical attraction to her.

Personally, I didn't mind it much, considering the type of character Shep is written as. Like it or not, this is sort of consistent.

Exactly my point. But more succinct. :) I blame him *because* it's a consistent thing. :)

I hope I didn't come across as seeing *only* that. It was just the most 'in my face' part as it was the main story from teaser ( Shep: "Friendly" with a smirk) to tag (Rodney:"Why can't I ever get kidnapped by the sexy alien?")

suse

1138
October 29th, 2007, 08:48 PM
I loved the music theme that played during the first reveal of the Battleship. Does anyone know if this is the first time it's been used? Or is it in other episodes? (This is certainly the first time I noticed it).

I liked this music a lot as well. I'd also like to find out if it's a previous theme. I'm going to start by watching Season 2's Aurora to see if it's the Ancient warship theme.

majorsal
October 29th, 2007, 08:49 PM
I've been having a fun time, reading through at least half the posts in this thread. Wow, I really need to go back and see how I could have missed the 42 minutes of porn so many people assure me this episode contained! I mean, hot nekkid sex right in front of the Wraith kiddies! How could I have missed the leering and exposing and writhing with passion?!

:lol:


wait a minute, i missed this episode version! :eek: i LOVE stargate-not-ready-for-primetime! :p



sally :D

An-Alteran
October 29th, 2007, 10:31 PM
I can find some level of good in every unpopular episode of Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis.
I truly could not think of an episode that I would say was alround just Bad.
Travellers is now that episode.

1: The graphics were very bellow-par.
The Puddle Jumper looked fake, as did the Drones, and the Wraith Cruiser when it was destroyed.
The graphics of the Drones were changed and were larger than they should have been.

2: Shepherd was made out to be a womanizer like is being more and more made common.

3: The Ancient ship was defeated pathetically by the Wraith Cruiser. It just didn't make sense.

4: The action didn't flow well. The scenes were too fast and transitioned awkwardly.

5: The characters were cardboard cutouts of personalities.
I have seen this all season with Rodney. He always uses the same tone of voice, the same facial expressions, and the same vocal forms of speach "Oh, come on!" is just getting old when it is used in the same tone, the same manner.
John was just a womanizing cardboard cutout all episode.

These are the ways the writters can improve:
1: Don't use external shots if they will look choppy and fake.

2: Don't be inconsistent in how you portray external visual effects.

3: Make Shepherd noble. He is the hero of the show, making him live 15 year old fanatasies is neither realistic nor interesting.
Woman are human beings to be treated with respect, not objects to be lusted after.

4: Do not opt for attractive women in scanty clothes to cover up lack of creativity. Paul Mullie-You have done this in the Tower and in this Episode. Think more. Stop filimg your fantasies from high school.

5: When creating a battle scene, or any episode involving Ancient technolog: THINK! Thinbk about how the Ancients were portrayed in SG-1. Think about how they are supposed to be. Think about how powerful a 60 million year old race should be. Think logically.

6: Think about who the characters are and how they are and how they would act, not what is a easy and popular way to portray them.
You are trying to represent people-not "characters" or "show pieces" or "stories"-- people.

I hope this will have some effect, if at least on noone else but my peers here on this site.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 29th, 2007, 10:34 PM
If Sheppard didn't kiss her how would she have taken his gun?

Overture
October 29th, 2007, 10:54 PM
If Sheppard didn't kiss her how would she have taken his gun?

Hehe.

You sir, are either brilliant, or a writer, or possibly both.
I take my hat off to you.

Ebinia
October 30th, 2007, 12:39 AM
considering the type of character Shep is written as. Like it or not, this is sort of consistent.

It's mostly Joe & Paul that write him this way, after all, they wrote episodes like The Tower. They seem to think everyone likes their immature attitudes to sexuality. Other episodes where Shep is obviously interested in the opposite sex but not lead around by that particular part of his anatomy, like The Brotherhood were written by others.

Elinor
October 30th, 2007, 12:58 AM
I've been having a fun time, reading through at least half the posts in this thread. Wow, I really need to go back and see how I could have missed the 42 minutes of porn so many people assure me this episode contained! I mean, hot nekkid sex right in front of the Wraith kiddies! How could I have missed the leering and exposing and writhing with passion?! :lol:



Darn! I missed it to! Um...I wonder if we'll get that version on SKY 1 when it airs here next week?!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-037.gif

Linzi
October 30th, 2007, 01:12 AM
It's mostly Joe & Paul that write him this way, after all, they wrote episodes like The Tower. They seem to think everyone likes their immature attitudes to sexuality. Other episodes where Shep is obviously interested in the opposite sex but not lead around by that particular part of his anatomy, like The Brotherhood were written by others.
Where was Sheppard interested in the fairer sex in The Brotherhood? Is this another alternate version of the show I've missed? Gosh, there seem to be some episodes out there I've not seen... ;) It was McKay who was, well oblivious to start with, but certainly interested in Alina, not Sheppard. He showed no interest in her at all. In fact he found McKay's and Alina's antics rather amusing...

Darn! I missed it to! Um...I wonder if we'll get that version on SKY 1 when it airs here next week?!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-037.gif

One can only live in hope, sweetie! ;)

Elinor
October 30th, 2007, 01:17 AM
One can only live in hope, sweetie! ;)

Yeah...'cos...you know...that would be kinda fun...especially the 'exposing and writhing' bit!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-011.gif

Linzi
October 30th, 2007, 01:18 AM
Yeah...'cos...you know...that would be kinda fun...especially the 'exposing and writhing' bit!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-011.gif
:eek: Be still my heart...;)

FallenAngelII
October 30th, 2007, 02:01 AM
While I agree with majority of your post, there's a nice little "Travelers"-folder where this should go, as this thread only concerns that specific episode. Check it, there are two threads in which we're discussing John's behaviour in this episode extensively (though from different viewpoints).

Redhooks
October 30th, 2007, 02:49 AM
One bad directing bit I noticed was near the beginning when Larrin has Sheppard shoved into the hanger bay. Why does she have to walk over about 5 feet in order to stand? To show the hallway of the Travelers ship behind her to justify the cost of making it? About two steps should have been enough to allow the crewman to activate the hanger bay controls.
Well I found out that the reason Larrin moves so far over is there is an intercom at the place where she is standing although it is never mentioned and is not seen as far as I can tell. She uses this intercom to communicate with Sheppard in the Hanger Bay.

Cautious Explorer
October 30th, 2007, 02:58 AM
Witty? Really? I've never seen him rise above being more than a cheap rip-off of O'Neill, so witty is in the eye of the beholder. :) Innuendo through both words and smirks.

Since I've barely seen SG-1 and started watching SGA mainly for Sheppard, I obviously don't see the cheap rip-off you do. O'Neill wasn't enough to hold my attention in SG-1 (I'm sure the writing for SG-1 also played a part), so I don't think a cheap rip-off of that character would be enough to hold my interest in SGA.

Maybe I have the advantage over you. I'm watching SGA for the Atlantis characters, not to compare it to SG-1.

FallenAngelII
October 30th, 2007, 03:07 AM
Once again, a woman hits on Shep for her own reasons and he gets the blame.
I have had to say this way too many times.

John Sheppard is not a man who just gets hit on and surprised and then kissed before he can react.

Almost every single time, he's also a part of it. She doesn't just jump him, but she gives him time to pull away, yet he leans in as well and opens his mouth. He wanted it and he went with it. While she initiated it, he had no problems with it.

Therefore, he is to blame. If he hadn't gone for it, like the professional he supposedly is, and had just pulled away, he wouldn't have been knocked out.

FoolishPleasure
October 30th, 2007, 05:22 AM
Once again, a woman hits on Shep for her own reasons and he gets the blame.

The problem I have with Shep isn't that women hit on him, its that he is pushing 40 years old, is a high ranking Air Force officer, in fact, commands the military on Atlantis, yet we have never seen this guy able to say "NO" when a girl comes on to him. THAT is what bothers me. Is offered. He takes it. Its the behavior of an 18 year old, not a 40 year old professional.

Jill_Ion
October 30th, 2007, 05:45 AM
I understand what you're saying, FP, but since he's pushing 40 and women are still hitting on him, I think he, like many (most) men, would be more likely to say yes than no. YMMV. (your man may vary)

Linzi
October 30th, 2007, 05:57 AM
The problem I have with Shep isn't that women hit on him, its that he is pushing 40 years old, is a high ranking Air Force officer, in fact, commands the military on Atlantis, yet we have never seen this guy able to say "NO" when a girl comes on to him. THAT is what bothers me. Is offered. He takes it. Its the behavior of an 18 year old, not a 40 year old professional.
You obviously don't know many divorced thirty-somethingish professional men then, I do... not that Sheppard hasn't said no to some. He said no to Mara, and kissed a few others. Big deal.

FallenAngelII
October 30th, 2007, 06:32 AM
I understand what you're saying, FP, but since he's pushing 40 and women are still hitting on him, I think he, like many (most) men, would be more likely to say yes than no. YMMV. (your man may vary)
When you're on duty and in his position (military leader of Atlantis), you have to think once or twice before going with your hormones just because someone's hitting on you, especially if it's a hostile situation like that in "Travelers" and especially if the woman hitting on you has shown she has no qualms about killing people, has tortured you and also threatened to kill you repeatedly earlier.

A lot of people think with the big head and not the small one. And the big head would've said "Sex later, important stuff now" instead of just going with it because someone hit on him. Yes, he's hot. Yes, he knows it. Yes, women hit on him. But a man of his position, in his situation and with his experience (with hostiles) should know better.


You obviously don't know many divorced thirty-somethingish professional men then, I do... not that Sheppard hasn't said no to some. He said no to Mara, and kissed a few others. Big deal.
It's not the fact that he kisses them that's the problem, it's the circumstances in which he does it. "Travelers" was the pinacle where his impromptu decision to make-out lead to great consequences (lost Ancient warship and he was on the verge of ending up being their permanent prisoner).

There was no way the Travelers were going to get their hands on the ship had he just imprisoned Larrin like a smart little colonel. What were the Travelers gonna do? Blow him, the ship and their leader up? Yeah.

"Let my ship go without a fight and I'll return your leader to you!" - Much better threat than "Give us the ship or we'll destroy it, kill you and our leader just out of spite!".

The fact that there might be a future alliance means nothing. His bad decision-making lead to a possibly good consequences sometimes in the future. It does not make his decision any less bad.

suse
October 30th, 2007, 08:02 AM
Since I've barely seen SG-1 and started watching SGA mainly for Sheppard, I obviously don't see the cheap rip-off you do. O'Neill wasn't enough to hold my attention in SG-1 (I'm sure the writing for SG-1 also played a part), so I don't think a cheap rip-off of that character would be enough to hold my interest in SGA.

Maybe I have the advantage over you. I'm watching SGA for the Atlantis characters, not to compare it to SG-1.
:lol: Nice snark.

:fcol: I'm not watching to compare the characters. That would be an exercise in frustration. Which Travelers was, but not because I was comparing Shep to O'Neill. :) That thought actually never crossed my mind.

I like Teyla and Ronon and several secondaries. Even Rodney when he isn't whining instead of working in an emergency situation.Please, note: I find Rodney's rants somewhat amusing, just not every week and not when he takes 20 of the 30 seconds needed to fix something to complain about how it's impossible and <<blahblahblah>>



suse

Falcon Horus
October 30th, 2007, 08:19 AM
I like Teyla and Ronon and several secondaries.

Funny how you use T and R in the same sentence as secondaries. Is there a hidden message? :P

prion
October 30th, 2007, 08:52 AM
If Sheppard didn't kiss her how would she have taken his gun?

Hmm, let me see. Perhaps she could have taken her knee and driven it upwards into a particularly sensitive part of his anatomy, which would have caused him to crumple to the ground.

Or taken her high heel and RAMMED it down on his foot (yeah, that would hurt).

i mean, she should have no qualms about either violent action considering her beating him up in the jail cell, or exposing him to radiation. sure wouldn't let her pet-sit, I'll tell ya. "Sorry, but your dog was yapping so I stuck it in the microwave."

Cautious Explorer
October 30th, 2007, 08:56 AM
:lol: Nice snark.

:fcol: I'm not watching to compare the characters. That would be an exercise in frustration. Which Travelers was, but not because I was comparing Shep to O'Neill. :) That thought actually never crossed my mind.

I like Teyla and Ronon and several secondaries. Even Rodney when he isn't whining instead of working in an emergency situation.Please, note: I find Rodney's rants somewhat amusing, just not every week and not when he takes 20 of the 30 seconds needed to fix something to complain about how it's impossible and <<blahblahblah>>

suse

I'm not following you. You don't compare Sheppard to O'Neill, even though you just did? You don't watch only to compare the characters, it's just a side interest? The thought to compare Sheppard to O'Neill never crossed your mind while watching Travelers, only while posting in the thread? I'm not understanding your comment.

FallenAngelII
October 30th, 2007, 08:58 AM
Hmm, let me see. Perhaps she could have taken her knee and driven it upwards into a particularly sensitive part of his anatomy, which would have caused him to crumple to the ground.

Or taken her high heel and RAMMED it down on his foot (yeah, that would hurt).

i mean, she should have no qualms about either violent action considering her beating him up in the jail cell, or exposing him to radiation. sure wouldn't let her pet-sit, I'll tell ya. "Sorry, but your dog was yapping so I stuck it in the microwave."
A smart man would have helped her up and then marched her straight to the brig. Or not have helped her up at all and waited 'til she'd gotten around enough to stand on her own.

A smart man would not have started making out wit her. Sure, helping her up was kindness. Making out with her was stupid.

suse
October 30th, 2007, 09:08 AM
Funny how you use T and R in the same sentence as secondaries. Is there a hidden message? :P
Nope. If I meant that I'd have said several *other* secondaries. Which I didn't. Because they aren't. Is that clear enough?

Secondaries include Lorne and Zelenka. Certainly not the people in the main credits.

suse

FallenAngelII
October 30th, 2007, 09:21 AM
Nope. If I meant that I'd have said several *other* secondaries. Which I didn't. Because they aren't. Is that clear enough?

Secondaries include Lorne and Zelenka. Certainly not the people in the main credits.

suse
The way Teyla and Ronon were treated in season 3, they were pretty much secondaries.

suse
October 30th, 2007, 09:29 AM
:lol: Nice snark.

:fcol: I'm not watching to compare the characters. That would be an exercise in frustration. Which Travelers was, but not because I was comparing Shep to O'Neill. :) That thought actually never crossed my mind.

I like Teyla and Ronon and several secondaries. Even Rodney when he isn't whining instead of working in an emergency situation.Please, note: I find Rodney's rants somewhat amusing, just not every week and not when he takes 20 of the 30 seconds needed to fix something to complain about how it's impossible and <<blahblahblah>>



suse


I'm not following you. You don't compare Sheppard to O'Neill, even though you just did? You don't watch only to compare the characters, it's just a side interest? The thought to compare Sheppard to O'Neill never crossed your mind while watching Travelers, only while posting in the thread? I'm not understanding your comment.

No, I didn't compare them *in that episode*. There was no comparison. Jack (though he 'interacted' with his share of women) didn't trust the ones who had already shown themselves untrustworthy. It was more of a general comment of how the leader of the SGA off world team was portrayed - as a snarky, rule-breaking officer. In general, that describes both O'Neill - the leader of the SG=1 flagship team - and Shep. Comparing the two IN GENERAL I find Shep...lacking in every way. <---*My allowed opinion.* And willing to think with the lower half of his anatomy at times when the situation calls for using his primary brain. This does NOT mean I think he thinks only with the lower one all the time. Just too often in situations where he shouldn't. You know, in situations where certain people have shown themselves to be less than trustworthy.

Comparing them isn't even a side interest. Sometimes it smacks me in the face, sometimes it doesn't. I don't go *looking* to compare. Honestly I didn't even think about comparing them til I was on this thread. That would be...depressing. And if I wanted to watch SG-1 I'd just pop in a DVD, not watch SGA. I'm watching S4 hoping that I find the characters more entertaining than I have in the previous 3 years. Fresh character pairings and more attention paid to wallpapered characters and all that. Some have thus far unfulfilled promise. Others...don't.

suse

suse
October 30th, 2007, 09:34 AM
The way Teyla and Ronon were treated in season 3, they were pretty much secondaries.

:jonas16: Yep. But not a topic for this thread. My running dialog with Cautious Explorer barely is.

suse

Falcon Horus
October 30th, 2007, 09:34 AM
Nope. If I meant that I'd have said several *other* secondaries. Which I didn't. Because they aren't. Is that clear enough?

You were clear before. I just thought it was funny.


The way Teyla and Ronon were treated in season 3, they were pretty much secondaries.

True.

Cautious Explorer
October 30th, 2007, 09:47 AM
No, I didn't compare them *in that episode*. There was no comparison. Jack (though he 'interacted' with his share of women) didn't trust the ones who had already shown themselves untrustworthy. It was more of a general comment of how the leader of the SGA off world team was portrayed - as a snarky, rule-breaking officer. In general, that describes both O'Neill - the leader of the SG=1 flagship team - and Shep. Comparing the two IN GENERAL I find Shep...lacking in every way. <---*My allowed opinion.* And willing to think with the lower half of his anatomy at times when the situation calls for using his primary brain. This does NOT mean I think he thinks only with the lower one all the time. Just too often in situations where he shouldn't. You know, in situations where certain people have shown themselves to be less than trustworthy.

Comparing them isn't even a side interest. Sometimes it smacks me in the face, sometimes it doesn't. I don't go *looking* to compare. Honestly I didn't even think about comparing them til I was on this thread. That would be...depressing. And if I wanted to watch SG-1 I'd just pop in a DVD, not watch SGA. I'm watching S4 hoping that I find the characters more entertaining than I have in the previous 3 years. Fresh character pairings and more attention paid to wallpapered characters and all that. Some have thus far unfulfilled promise. Others...don't.

suse

Thanks for the explanation. Your answer didn't make sense to me. I wasn't trying to imply you weren't allowed an opinion. I don't agree with it, but I'm certainly not saying you can't have it.

Spacemonkey_Jackson
October 30th, 2007, 01:10 PM
Did anyone else think that this episode was a bit like Prometheus Unbound? Except, you know, better.

I'm so loving the team scenes at the end of the episodes this eason. I hope that they keep it up. They sort of remind me of the family scenes at the end of Numb3rs. I love that.

I laughed out loud when Teyal rolled her eyes at her boys. I bet she;s been waiting to do that for a while now. :D

s09119
October 30th, 2007, 01:25 PM
Seriously, can we all drop the Sheppard-and-Larrin thing? Yes, he's a military man pushing 40, but this is sci-fi. Hell, this is FICTION. Watch any TV show these days and it's what people do. Why? Because 9 times out of 10, it's funny to watch and is entertaining.

Who cares if it's not uber-realistic, it's fun and that's all that matters IMO.

Copernicus
October 30th, 2007, 02:18 PM
I would've kissed her.

garhkal
October 30th, 2007, 03:19 PM
Actually, we've seen a few examples of the Wraith keeping their word. I'm not saying they should be trusted to watch your children... but it's not new.

That is true, but overall we have seen them backstab us..



Oh yes, because they have beaming technology. What the Hell would they do once they arrived? Threaten to blow the ship up? John would still have had their leader captive plus drones. He could've forced Larrin to fix the Hyperdrive and then Hyperdrived out of there.

While i cannot see the beaming tech part, i do agree. There was little they could have done had john wanted to take the ship.


Just a thought here. But does anyone else think that judgeing from sheps history with his enemies. That it would have been more in character for him to turn around and hoot that wraith in the back after he let it go.

Nope. Other than what he did with Koyola, he seems to respect his word. If given it is kept.


i had thought of common ground. In fact that's the reason why i think he let him go. But in the first season Shep always had moments of having a real dark side. Esspecially when it came to prisoners. Take the wraith prisoner in season 1 for example. when he began to mock him, saying that they'd be destroyed, John just shot him (ok there were other reasons than that, but the point is that he had no remourse and didn't even think twice). Shep is a soldier. He knows that the enemy can't be trusted and will go back on their word. It's something that i really liked about his character. He will do things that are morally ambiguous but because they are for the greater good. Even if that means torture or cold blooded killing. I just think it would have made for a much better scene if he had let the wraith go, then he spins round and shoots him in the back.

I actually hated shep for that portrayal. IMO a hero does not shoot a defenceless foe, like that prisoner was.. and loves it as it seemed he was enjoying.


A minor thing that struck me several times now - when shooting at an enemy ship - why so many drones? It looks like 3-4 would have been enough. This way I'm sure the Lanteans did run out of ammo fairly quick...

IMO several reasons.. 1) We don't know that 3-4 drones would be enough, 2) why run the risk of only damaging the enemy when you can take them out and 3) perhaps john did not know how many remained and just told the ship "Fire all remaining drones" in that thought..


Questions: Why didn’t the traveller’s ships show up on the jumper’s radar/sensors? Same question the sensors they placed around the Stargate. What’s more, why wasn’t sheppard flying around with the cloak on? I know when we examine his character he is meant to be reckless etc – but as an American Airforce pilot you’d think he would have just a touch of common sense.

A) Mccay mentioned he was scanning several ships, but they were too far out to get a good reading.
B) who's to say after they got shep they did not collect their satellites..
C) IMO that was cause he was in a known safe area... Notice most of the time they only engage cloak when they WANT to stay hidden, otherwise they don't use it.

Wilson3Girl
October 30th, 2007, 03:45 PM
Wow, I'm very late to the game in posting my thoughts this week!
I see there's a lot of strong opinions about this week's eppy, but I have to say this one just left me feeling.....how shall I say? Meh.
I didn't love it, and I didn't hate it. Shep got an episode all to himself, and that's great, but I would've loved to have seen some more team angst over his disappearance. Larrin didn't register on my radar at all. Again, didn't love her, didn't hate her. I wouldn't miss her if she never showed up again but I wouldn't care if she did either. Just a blah/so-so episode overall for me this week. Next week's episode Tabula Rasa looks great. Looking forward to it! :)


Wilson3Girl

prion
October 30th, 2007, 03:54 PM
A smart man would have helped her up and then marched her straight to the brig. Or not have helped her up at all and waited 'til she'd gotten around enough to stand on her own.

A smart man would not have started making out wit her. Sure, helping her up was kindness. Making out with her was stupid.

Yeah, stupid, but a guy thing? I don't know. Why do the writers do that with Sheppard??

Mattathias2.0
October 30th, 2007, 05:41 PM
I do look forward to the Travelers appearing in the future (which looks likely).

PG15
October 30th, 2007, 07:01 PM
I would've kissed her.

Me too.

Jill_Ion
October 30th, 2007, 07:17 PM
I would've kissed him, and pretended I was going for the gun and "let him" catch me. :cool:

Lunatiger
October 30th, 2007, 08:13 PM
Man, to be honest I was a little disappointed with this episode from all the hype it was getting. I guess I got a little too excited and it fell short from my expectations. But I didn't hate it. I love Shppard centric episodes! He got this one all by himself. But a few complaints:
The writers should have given more details about the Travelers. One or 2 lines more! I'm sure they could cut back on all the running and "What are you doing?" nonesense.
Larrin irked me a little. I never got into her character. And I usually don't get bothered by characters like that at all.
Sheppard and his damn Kirking. It's getting a little boring. I would like to see a women refusing him and him getting a "wow,no women has ever refused me" look on his face. Now that would be fun to see!
Teyla and Ronan heavily underused, especially in this eppy. GRRR! They don't even fight!
And lastly omg why do the wraith have frizzy hair??? It's suppose to be sleek and cool.

The Good:
Trivia on Ronon's gun
Another Lantean ship!
Another advance race in the galaxy
Rodey being the leader.
Sheppard getting whump with blood and by a girl no less
Sheppard knowing his Lantean tech!
And the best ending with the best Teyla and Ronon faces ever. Teyla's eyes rolling made me laugh hysterically and Ronon's wolfish grin was a giggle also. Mckay's "Why I never get captured by the sexy alien" was the best line in the show. That was the saving grace of the episode in my opinion.

aiHD
October 30th, 2007, 11:47 PM
Great episode, though the Daedalus and Apollo were sorely missed.

I don't get why some people seem to think that Sheppard's not allowed to be attracted to anyone, or for that matter for anyone to be attracted to Sheppard. There was nothing in this episode that went beyond Vala's behaviour in Prometheus Unbound, and I don't remember Daniel's moral integrity being called into question either.

More to the point, the guy's single! Cut him some slack, he's a soldier not a monk - and he didn't let his attraction to her stop him from reacting pragmatically to the capture and interrogation. Exactly what is the problem here?

FallenAngelII
October 31st, 2007, 01:06 AM
Seriously, can we all drop the Sheppard-and-Larrin thing? Yes, he's a military man pushing 40, but this is sci-fi. Hell, this is FICTION. Watch any TV show these days and it's what people do. Why? Because 9 times out of 10, it's funny to watch and is entertaining.

Who cares if it's not uber-realistic, it's fun and that's all that matters IMO.
Because a lot of us didn't find it funny and entertaining? You did, we did not.


While i cannot see the beaming tech part, i do agree. There was little they could have done had john wanted to take the ship.
The beaming tech part was sarcasm. There was no possible way for the Travelers to demand the ship back without beaming technology since they'd have no way to get on the ship, get Larrin off it or in any way threaten John without at the same time threaten their leader and possible future home.


Yeah, stupid, but a guy thing? I don't know. Why do the writers do that with Sheppard??
You know, I know tons of people (heterosexual men) smart enough not to let their libidos get the best out of them at inopportune times such as these. There's a time and place for everything.

Alipeeps
October 31st, 2007, 03:22 AM
At least they had her put on that coat type thing that buttoned or attached at the cleavage (yes I noticed that! :o) when she went aboard the Ancient warship. The tight pants were not an detriment to her running, but the pointy toe boots with the 2 inch or so heels were not as practical to me and how can a woman run in those? :lol: In fact how can women walk in very high heeled shoes at anytime, which Jill has worn in Blade: The Series and some Mercury commercials an inquiring male wants to know? :lol:

2 inch sturdy heels? No problems. Now if we were talking 4 inch thin stiletto heels then yeah, I wouldn't try running in those. But a good solid chunky heel like she had on those boots is no problem to run in - and kick ass in! :D


This was 40 minutes of Sheppard, and to some like Pegasus_SGA I assume that's fun to watch. Whumpage and all. But for me personally, no thank you.

This was a waste of 42 minutes of film (or time or whatever).


I guess if you're not particularly interested in Sheppard then, yeah, this is probably not an episode for you. It's like fans who aren't particularly interested in Weir found The Real World boring and fans who aren't particularly interested in McKay found Grace Under Pressure boring. In terms of the amount of screentime/focus given to Sheppard, I see this episode very much as Sheppard's TRW/GUP. And I for one enjoyed seeing it - I freely admit to being biased in that Sheppard is my favourite character and so I loved seeing an episode so much focused on him. I wouldn't want to see that every week as I very much love the team as a whole and the team interactions... but it was nice, just once, to get something of a showcase episode for my favourite character.


3: Make Shepherd noble. He is the hero of the show, making him live 15 year old fanatasies is neither realistic nor interesting.
Woman are human beings to be treated with respect, not objects to be lusted after.

Speaking as a woman, whilst we certainly would like to be treated with respect, we also quite enjoy being lusted after! :D There seems to be an awful lot of puritanism going around on GW at the moment... respecting a woman does not preclude finding her sexually attractive! And actually, given how she had treated him up to that point, I don't really see much justification for Sheppard to respect her... she certainly hadn't respected him in any way!


4: Do not opt for attractive women in scanty clothes to cover up lack of creativity. Paul Mullie-You have done this in the Tower and in this Episode. Think more. Stop filimg your fantasies from high school.

Scanty clothes? An off-the-shoulder top with a teeeeeeny hint of cleavage (and even that covered up by a jacket for most of the episode)? Cripes, Ronon displayed as much, if not more, flesh in his low-fronted sleeveless vest worn in Doppelganger!


5: When creating a battle scene, or any episode involving Ancient technolog: THINK! Thinbk about how the Ancients were portrayed in SG-1. Think about how they are supposed to be. Think about how powerful a 60 million year old race should be. Think logically.

The Wraith weren't fighting a 60 million year old race. They were fighting a damaged 10,000+ year old ship that had been drifting in space for 10,000 years and which was barely operational.


It's mostly Joe & Paul that write him this way, after all, they wrote episodes like The Tower. They seem to think everyone likes their immature attitudes to sexuality. Other episodes where Shep is obviously interested in the opposite sex but not lead around by that particular part of his anatomy, like The Brotherhood were written by others.

Uh? I'm sorry, you've lost me there... when was Sheppard interested in the opposite sec in Brotherhood? The only one flirting (or trying badly to flirt!) or being flirted with in that episode was McKay.


Seriously, can we all drop the Sheppard-and-Larrin thing? Yes, he's a military man pushing 40, but this is sci-fi. Hell, this is FICTION. Watch any TV show these days and it's what people do. Why? Because 9 times out of 10, it's funny to watch and is entertaining.

Who cares if it's not uber-realistic, it's fun and that's all that matters IMO.

It's the nature of television. It's why every single female character in House has the hots for a grumpy, arrogant, crippled, middle-aged doctor (and that's in no way a disparagement cos I'd have the hots for House too! :lol:)


I would've kissed him, and pretended I was going for the gun and "let him" catch me. :cool:

Oooh I like the way you think! :D

Copernicus
October 31st, 2007, 05:04 AM
Me too.
You and I seem to generally be on the same page about things.

Jill_Ion
October 31st, 2007, 06:46 AM
{snippage}
It's the nature of television. It's why every single female character in House has the hots for a grumpy, arrogant, crippled, middle-aged doctor (and that's in no way a disparagement cos I'd have the hots for House too! :lol:)


Me too, I freely admit. It's the difference between a "bad boy" and a "jerk." You actually know a jerk. House or McKay would be on my Most Loathed List in real life, but on TV, they're just naughty. ;)

FireCat
October 31st, 2007, 06:47 AM
I thought this episode was just ordinary and nothing special. For so much Shep, I wish we had learned something new about him. We already know he likes women. :rolleyes: Frankly, I find Shep boring lately, almost to the point where I want to see more Major Lorne instead of Shep.

I'm with the group who would love to see a pretty female star who doesn't stir lust in our hero (Shep). I'd like to hear from current military officers (any around?) and see what they think of a Lt. Colonel flirting, kissing, making out on duty. If Shep was off duty, then it wouldn't bother me, but not during a mission. Just sits wrong with me.

Redhooks
October 31st, 2007, 09:36 AM
2 inch sturdy heels? No problems. Now if we were talking 4 inch thin stiletto heels then yeah, I wouldn't try running in those. But a good solid chunky heel like she had on those boots is no problem to run in - and kick ass in! :D :D
Yeah well, I have no experience with that so I couldn't understand how women can run in them so I'll defer to your experience Alipeeps with what Linzi and Pegasus_SGA referred to as FMB. ;) I always wondered about how women can wear the higher heels though, but I guess they can get used to it.

By the way, Jill says she had no problem running in those boots because she is a very good runner and didn't slip on ANY surface. She also hadn't heard about the number of people bashing this episode on this site and had only seen good reactions about it. She said she probably was looking on a different Stargate site. Another FYI, it was Jill's double in the Wraithed makeup and not her.

Alipeeps
October 31st, 2007, 09:38 AM
Yeah well, I have no experience with that so I couldn't understand how women can run in them so I'll defer to your experience Alipeeps with what Linzi and Pegasus_SGA referred to as FMB. ;) I always wondered about how women can wear the higher heels though, but I guess they can get used to it.

By the way, Jill says she had no problem running in those boots because she is a very good runner and didn't slip on ANY surface. She also hadn't heard about a number of people bashing this episode on this site and had only seen good reactions about it. She said she probably was looking on a different Stargate site. Another FYI, it was Jill's double in the Wraithed makeup and not her.

Thanks for the info. It usually is a double in the very Wraith-aged make-up (e.g. Sheppard after the final feeding in Common Ground) as it's hard to get the whole sunken cheeks look with the actual actor! :D

Redhooks
October 31st, 2007, 09:43 AM
P.S. No experience, eh? Cmon Redhooks, don't lie to us... ;) :D
My experience with boots ends with 1 inch high heeled steel-toed work boots. :)

Alipeeps
October 31st, 2007, 09:53 AM
Sorry, but that wasn't funny :( and my experience with boots ends with 1 inch high heeled steel-toed work boots.

I was only teasing. :( I'm sorry. I've deleted it.

Jill_Ion
October 31st, 2007, 11:12 AM
I thought this episode was just ordinary and nothing special. For so much Shep, I wish we had learned something new about him.

Yeah, I'll go with you there. An ordinary ep. Not fantastic. Not terrible. I enjoyed it.

I like your idea of learning more about Shep! :)

Listy
October 31st, 2007, 11:41 AM
Well I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed Travelers, for me it was a fun episode and I thought the interaction between Sheppard and Larrin to be very entertaining. So many good things in this episode.

Just a few of the many things I enjoyed in spoilers because I liked lots...

As a whumper, have to say the blood and the punches were impressive, but even without that as a Sheppard fan, the episode was good IMO and the introduction of a new player in the Pegasus Galaxy was great, I can't wait to see more of them.

I really liked Larrin and thought that Jill Wagner played the character really well. It was refreshing to have a strong female leader who literally didn't pull any punches, was willling to get in on the action, had a good right hook :D and the cold-hearted determination to expose her own people to lethal radiation poisoning to get what she needed, and to top it all off able to run in heels (I am impressed!)

The scene in the Hanger with the bay doors open was nice, nothing but a force field between Sheppard and space, and showing the ancient ship like that was impressive.

I thought it was a nice moment when Ronon said "Does it make a difference? Even if it was a fleet of hive ships, would it stop us from trying to get him back?" I like the loyalty the team showed to Sheppard.

Didn't realise until someone pointed it out to me and I watched the ep for a second time, but I really liked the little scene when Sheppard was in the holding cell, laying back on the bed drumming his fingers looking bored and Larrin sizing him up and saying "That's the problem! Does he look like a man who thinks he's going to die?" I liked that Larrin was perceptive and sized Sheppard up. I also liked that Sheppard had the confidence to know his team would find his message and come for him.

Sheppard fixing the chair, not just a pretty face!

The scene in the cupboard hiding from the Wraith was amusing, how they kept a straight face and didn't end up in hysterics holding a hand over each others mouth is beyond me :D

I would love to see a bit more on the effects of the Wraith feeding and restoration process, when Larrin said "to have your whole life fading away and then to suddenly have it back again. It actually felt kind of good." and then Sheppard agreeing, was interesting and I would like to know a little more about this.

The kiss sealed with a stun at point blank range, that had to hurt. The chemistry between Sheppard and Larrin was great.

I liked that Sheppard saw that the Travelers gaining one extra ship was ultimately not going to change anything and they wouldn't really improve their situation.

I also liked that Larrin went from seeing Sheppard as a prisoner just to be used to get the ship working to seeing that he was actually a lot more than that and that maybe he was different, even after everything she had subjected him to, he still saved her life and gave the possibility of an alliance. He also kept his word even with the Wraith.

Rodney at the end whining "Whatever! All I know is that every time I get taken captive, it's the Wraith. Just once, I would like to be taken prisoner by the sexy alien." made me giggle, not that he didn't get captured at all but that he wanted to be captured by a sexy alien :D

For me it was a very enjoyable ep and I have to say I am really enjoying Season 4 so far.

blue-skyz
October 31st, 2007, 02:22 PM
Well I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed Travelers, for me it was a fun episode and I thought the interaction between Sheppard and Larrin to be very entertaining. So many good things in this episode.

Just a few of the many things I enjoyed in spoilers because I liked lots...

As a whumper, have to say the blood and the punches were impressive, but even without that as a Sheppard fan, the episode was good IMO and the introduction of a new player in the Pegasus Galaxy was great, I can't wait to see more of them.

I really liked Larrin and thought that Jill Wagner played the character really well. It was refreshing to have a strong female leader who literally didn't pull any punches, was willling to get in on the action, had a good right hook and the cold-hearted determination to expose her own people to lethal radiation poisoning to get what she needed, and to top it all off able to run in heels (I am impressed!)

The scene in the Hanger with the bay doors open was nice, nothing but a force field between Sheppard and space, and showing the ancient ship like that was impressive.

I thought it was a nice moment when Ronon said "Does it make a difference? Even if it was a fleet of hive ships, would it stop us from trying to get him back?" I like the loyalty the team showed to Sheppard.

Didn't realise until someone pointed it out to me and I watched the ep for a second time, but I really liked the little scene when Sheppard was in the holding cell, laying back on the bed drumming his fingers looking bored and Larrin sizing him up and saying "That's the problem! Does he look like a man who thinks he's going to die?" I liked that Larrin was perceptive and sized Sheppard up. I also liked that Sheppard had the confidence to know his team would find his message and come for him.

Sheppard fixing the chair, not just a pretty face!

The scene in the cupboard hiding from the Wraith was amusing, how they kept a straight face and didn't end up in hysterics holding a hand over each others mouth is beyond me

I would love to see a bit more on the effects of the Wraith feeding and restoration process, when Larrin said "to have your whole life fading away and then to suddenly have it back again. It actually felt kind of good." and then Sheppard agreeing, was interesting and I would like to know a little more about this.

The kiss sealed with a stun at point blank range, that had to hurt. The chemistry between Sheppard and Larrin was great.

I liked that Sheppard saw that the Travelers gaining one extra ship was ultimately not going to change anything and they wouldn't really improve their situation.

I also liked that Larrin went from seeing Sheppard as a prisoner just to be used to get the ship working to seeing that he was actually a lot more than that and that maybe he was different, even after everything she had subjected him to, he still saved her life and gave the possibility of an alliance. He also kept his word even with the Wraith.

Rodney at the end whining "Whatever! All I know is that every time I get taken captive, it's the Wraith. Just once, I would like to be taken prisoner by the sexy alien." made me giggle, not that he didn't get captured at all but that he wanted to be captured by a sexy alien

For me it was a very enjoyable ep and I have to say I am really enjoying Season 4 so far.
Well said! :) I totally agree. :D :D :D :D

Linzi
October 31st, 2007, 02:57 PM
Well said! :) I totally agree. :D :D :D :D
Ditto! Nice post Listy! I'm so pleased you took the time to post! :)

PG15
October 31st, 2007, 03:08 PM
You and I seem to generally be on the same page about things.

Indeed. I agree.

Quite.

garhkal
October 31st, 2007, 03:19 PM
You know, I know tons of people (heterosexual men) smart enough not to let their libidos get the best out of them at inopportune times such as these. There's a time and place for everything.

And i know a lot who would have done the same as shep..

Alipeeps
October 31st, 2007, 03:54 PM
Had an interesting thought about Travelers upon rewatching it... *ahem* What?! So I've watched it a few times... or more.. or 10... or so... :D

With the Travelers we see in the episode, particularly Nevik, the scientist, they seem to be quite sallow/pale-skinned... which, if you think about it, is quite likely for people who spend most of their lives on a spaceship and therefore rarely see the sun. Larrin was the exception and didn't seem too pale but the boys - particularly in the scene with Larrin and Sheppard in the cell on the Travellers ship - both seemed quite pasty-looking.

Just a thought... as you were..

Redhooks
October 31st, 2007, 04:03 PM
Had an interesting thought about Travelers upon rewatching it... *ahem* What?! So I've watched it a few times... or more.. or 10... or so... :D

With the Travelers we see in the episode, particularly Nevik, the scientist, they seem to be quite sallow/pale-skinned... which, if you think about it, is quite likely for people who spend most of their lives on a spaceship and therefore rarely see the sun. Larrin was the exception and didn't seem too pale but the boys - particularly in the scene with Larrin and Sheppard in the cell on the Travellers ship - both seemed quite pasty-looking.

Just a thought... as you were..
Well, I'm sure the actors playing Nevik and Silas are from Vancouver, which according to a certain actor, always has rain or at least is cloudy. :D
On the other hand, Jill lives in the LA area, where there is a lot of sunshine. Plus, she is part Cherokee Indian so has a natural olive skin-tone.

OT: Ali, I tried to PM you but your mailbox is full. :(
I've also watched numerous times, although the last two times were to make screencaps.

Skydiver
October 31st, 2007, 04:55 PM
I finally got to see travelers and...eh.

it had its moments - the most enjoyable of which was teyla's eye roll at the end.

The rest was just a bottle episode and a way to segregate shep, probably so that they could tape it with the second unit while everyone was off doing something else.

honestly? PU was more enjoyable. As dumb as that episode was, you could just sit back and embrace the camp. this was.....eh, i got a Lorne fix, so that's always good :)

Copernicus
October 31st, 2007, 07:15 PM
Indeed. I agree.

Quite.
I say we start a group. Stargate Fans for Common Sense. I'm not sure we'd get much membership though.

*prepares for the inevitable verbal assault from a random member without a sense of humour*

PG15
October 31st, 2007, 08:10 PM
Nay. I say we split up and try to seep our common sense into the forums, for the greater good.

Oh yes.

Copernicus
October 31st, 2007, 08:56 PM
Nay. I say we split up and try to seep our common sense into the forums, for the greater good.

Oh yes.
Agreed. That seems like the most sensible course of action.

...dibs on this forum...

PG15
October 31st, 2007, 09:05 PM
Fine. You can have the Travelers Forum.

I shall lay claim to the Adrift, Lifeline, Reunion, Doppleganger, Tabula Rasa, Missing, The Seer, Miller's Crossing, This Mortal Coil, Be All My Sins Remember'd, Spoils of War, Quarantine, Outcast, Trio, Harmony, Midway, The Kindred Part 1 and 2, The Last Man, and the general Season 4 forums.

Good luck.

Linzi
October 31st, 2007, 11:20 PM
Fine. You can have the Travelers Forum.

I shall lay claim to the Adrift, Lifeline, Reunion, Doppleganger, Tabula Rasa, Missing, The Seer, Miller's Crossing, This Mortal Coil, Be All My Sins Remember'd, Spoils of War, Quarantine, Outcast, Trio, Harmony, Midway, The Kindred Part 1 and 2, The Last Man, and the general Season 4 forums.

Good luck.
:lol:

I think we should leave the Travelers threads to PEG. She just seems to have a way with words! ;)

Pegasus_SGA
November 1st, 2007, 04:27 AM
Agreed. That seems like the most sensible course of action.

...dibs on this forum...

I didn't think we did sensible. ;)

Pegasus_SGA
November 1st, 2007, 04:31 AM
:lol:

I think we should leave the Travelers threads to PEG. She just seems to have a way with words! ;)

:lol: Thanks. :D With everything that's gone on the last day or so, I haven't had time to read everyone's post. :( But, give me a day or two to play catch up and i'll whip this thread into shape. ;) :P :D Oh hang on, didn't I say i'd use the whip sparringly from this point on, hon? ;)On topic! Luffed the bloody whump *thud*

Linzi
November 1st, 2007, 06:32 AM
:lol: Thanks. :D With everything that's gone on the last day or so, I haven't had time to read everyone's post. :( But, give me a day or two to play catch up and i'll whip this thread into shape. ;) :P :D Oh hang on, didn't I say i'd use the whip sparringly from this point on, hon? ;)On topic! Luffed the bloody whump *thud*
You and your whip! :eek:

I loved the whump too. No surprises there.

I just watched Travelers again, by myself, quietly, and took into consideration all the perspectives and pov's I've read here, on this thread, which is a really good thing to do, I believe, and is one of the benefits from reading and being active on this forum.

You know what? Quite simply, I was entertained by it. Is it going to be one of the episodes that tugs on my heart strings? Nope. Is it going to be one where I think, 'Wow! Who'd have thought that could happen?' Nope. Is it going to be an episode where I think, 'My God, how did they come up with that idea?' Again, that would be a negative. But - I simply really enjoyed the episode.

For 43 minutes, I was taken from my everyday world, and transported somewhere else for a really fun/action episode, that, oh yeah, featured my favourite character prominently, and was one where he got knocked around a bit by a feisty and attractive woman.

Will Travelers be an episode where I watch and ponder the meaning of the Universe? No. But, as a scifi action episode, with amusing moments, the introduction of a new ally who could actually help in the battle against the enemies the good guys face in the Pegasus Galaxy, some cool spaceship shots, and some great character moments, then, it succeeded very well for me.

I thought about it hard, and I still say the story was perhaps a little bit thin, but the episode was successful for me, simply because I liked it and found myself engrossed in it. It was just fun to watch, and for me that's what the show is all about - being entertained. Could it have been better? Undoubtedly, in my opinion, but I feel that way about every episode I watch to a certain extent, because I'd have tweaked it to suit what I wanted to exactly see. I enjoy many different sorts of episodes of SGA, and this one, for me, isn't any less of an episode because it doesn't have a deep plot, or isn't horrifying or hysterically funny. One thing I like is a variety of episodes. With Adrift, Lifeline and DG we had what I thought were serious episodes, full of emotion. With Reunion we had perhaps a slower moving character based episode. Travelers, for me, was fun and action and just pure entertainment, and I won't belittle it because of that. I take it for what it is, and enjoy it :)

blue-skyz
November 1st, 2007, 08:32 AM
Sheppard is my favorite character and I am so enjoying the Sheppard that is in S4 and Travelers. I have really cringed at some of the childish jokes, ‘the boys,’ and mom Weir from previous seasons. Sheppard can be laid back and sarcastic, but he needs to be a credible and competent adult at the same time. We have that so far this season.

So far he has shown his command capabilities and his knowledge of computers and Ancient technology. In Travelers he activates the Ancient warship and clearly understands the displays and its various systems. I actually cheered when he fixed the crystals in the damaged control chair. (Probably just the Ancient equivalent of a fuse but still…) This is the Sheppard I want to see more of.

Despite his being more capable here, the lighter tone, and the myriad of problems with the episode, as any episode of anything, for me, this was a fun episode, a gift to all of us who enjoy Sheppard. :)

BTW, Sheppard can kiss anyone he wants, any time he wants. He’s a character. It’s entertainment. It was a joke. He finally gets to kiss a girl and she stuns him. I liked it. It fits nicely into my suspension of disbelief. Close your eyes the next time. You probably won’t have to bother too often given his history with women.

I am undeterred by the onslaught and persistence of the hatred for Sheppard, Travelers, S4, and the current incarnation of Atlantis. Go for it. It’ll just be a repeat of numerous posts from numerous threads. Might as well just copy one forward or give a few URLs of previous posts. Not like we haven’t heard it all before. :rolleyes:

prion
November 1st, 2007, 08:58 AM
Fine. You can have the Travelers Forum.

I shall lay claim to the Adrift, Lifeline, Reunion, Doppleganger, Tabula Rasa, Missing, The Seer, Miller's Crossing, This Mortal Coil, Be All My Sins Remember'd, Spoils of War, Quarantine, Outcast, Trio, Harmony, Midway, The Kindred Part 1 and 2, The Last Man, and the general Season 4 forums.

Good luck.

I got dibs on all of season 5 and beyond ;)


I say we start a group. Stargate Fans for Common Sense. I'm not sure we'd get much membership though.

*prepares for the inevitable verbal assault from a random member without a sense of humour*

Bwahahah! Oh, I'm sure you'd get enough folks signing up, but folks might disagree on what 'common sense' is ;)



Sheppard is my favorite character and I am so enjoying the Sheppard that is in S4 and Travelers. I have really cringed at some of the childish jokes, ‘the boys,’ and mom Weir from previous seasons. Sheppard can be laid back and sarcastic, but he needs to be a credible and competent adult at the same time. We have that so far this season.
BTW, Sheppard can kiss anyone he wants, any time he wants. He’s a character. It’s entertainment. It was a joke. He finally gets to kiss a girl and she stuns him. I liked it. It fits nicely into my suspension of disbelief. Close your eyes the next time. You probably won’t have to bother too often given his history with women.

I am undeterred by the onslaught and persistence of the hatred for Sheppard, Travelers, S4, and the current incarnation of Atlantis. Go for it. It’ll just be a repeat of numerous posts from numerous threads. Might as well just copy one forward or give a few URLs of previous posts. Not like we haven’t heard it all before. :rolleyes:

Don't hate Shep for his stupidity in Travelers (just at the very end, when he foolishly let Larrin kiss him then steal the gun and stun him). Just think it was, well, dumb due to Larrin's readily demonstrated duplicity. And he has kissed the girl before (Teer in "Epiphany" and I'm rather sure they did a lot more than kiss and I'm pretty sure that was the only time he did that, at least that we know of). ;)

Mitchell82
November 1st, 2007, 10:41 AM
I just watched Travelers....

Phew... It's a surprise I stayed awake during the episode... Boring!

There was no Carter, so that was a plus, but that's just about it.

I giggled uncontrollably with Teyla's eye-roll at the end of the episode and that's about all the smiling/laughing I did.

This was 40 minutes of Sheppard, and to some like Pegasus_SGA I assume that's fun to watch. Whumpage and all. But for me personally, no thank you.

This was a waste of 42 minutes of film (or time or whatever).

Larrin wasn't all that bad. I don't mind seeing her again, as long as they can control the Kirk-iness cause dude.... annoying beyond belief.

Again, have yet to see an episode I truly like.
DG is a possible like, and Lifeline was a great Elizabeth episode.

I disagree. This was a great use of 42 minutes and one of the best eps.

Mitchell82
November 1st, 2007, 10:44 AM
Seriously, can we all drop the Sheppard-and-Larrin thing? Yes, he's a military man pushing 40, but this is sci-fi. Hell, this is FICTION. Watch any TV show these days and it's what people do. Why? Because 9 times out of 10, it's funny to watch and is entertaining.

Who cares if it's not uber-realistic, it's fun and that's all that matters IMO.

Thank you! Agree 100%! This was a great and fun ep and picking it apart like this is grating on my nerves.

Copernicus
November 1st, 2007, 10:45 AM
Fine. You can have the Travelers Forum.

I shall lay claim to the Adrift, Lifeline, Reunion, Doppleganger, Tabula Rasa, Missing, The Seer, Miller's Crossing, This Mortal Coil, Be All My Sins Remember'd, Spoils of War, Quarantine, Outcast, Trio, Harmony, Midway, The Kindred Part 1 and 2, The Last Man, and the general Season 4 forums.

Good luck.
Ah, but sir, you've broken our covenant already by posting in this forum after I called dibs on it. By voiding your agreement to respect my claim to this forum, I am free to disregard any claim you have made to any other forum.

That said, credit where credit's due for pointing out the ambiguity.


I didn't think we did sensible. ;)
That's why season four is considered a soft reset.


Bwahahah! Oh, I'm sure you'd get enough folks signing up, but folks might disagree on what 'common sense' is ;)
Obviously common sense is whatever I believe. If you don't agree, you're crazy.

On a mildly more serious note, I like the show, but can appreciate problems with it, and I have no commitment to a ship. I've been lurking these forums for about a year with only 200 or so posts (all of which have been solid gold, except for the one where I got dinged by the mods for flaming, when, as the moderator realized after I sent a private message inquiring as to what I did wrong, I made a joke that not everyone took the right way). I am the epitome of a casual observer.

For those wondering what the joke was, I called someone smelly as an example of a stupid personal attack. After all, I have no way of judging whether or not someone is smelly on the other side of a computer.

Mitchell82
November 1st, 2007, 10:47 AM
You and your whip! :eek:

I loved the whump too. No surprises there.

I just watched Travelers again, by myself, quietly, and took into consideration all the perspectives and pov's I've read here, on this thread, which is a really good thing to do, I believe, and is one of the benefits from reading and being active on this forum.

You know what? Quite simply, I was entertained by it. Is it going to be one of the episodes that tugs on my heart strings? Nope. Is it going to be one where I think, 'Wow! Who'd have thought that could happen?' Nope. Is it going to be an episode where I think, 'My God, how did they come up with that idea?' Again, that would be a negative. But - I simply really enjoyed the episode.

For 43 minutes, I was taken from my everyday world, and transported somewhere else for a really fun/action episode, that, oh yeah, featured my favourite character prominently, and was one where he got knocked around a bit by a feisty and attractive woman.

Will Travelers be an episode where I watch and ponder the meaning of the Universe? No. But, as a scifi action episode, with amusing moments, the introduction of a new ally who could actually help in the battle against the enemies the good guys face in the Pegasus Galaxy, some cool spaceship shots, and some great character moments, then, it succeeded very well for me.

I thought about it hard, and I still say the story was perhaps a little bit thin, but the episode was successful for me, simply because I liked it and found myself engrossed in it. It was just fun to watch, and for me that's what the show is all about - being entertained. Could it have been better? Undoubtedly, in my opinion, but I feel that way about every episode I watch to a certain extent, because I'd have tweaked it to suit what I wanted to exactly see. I enjoy many different sorts of episodes of SGA, and this one, for me, isn't any less of an episode because it doesn't have a deep plot, or isn't horrifying or hysterically funny. One thing I like is a variety of episodes. With Adrift, Lifeline and DG we had what I thought were serious episodes, full of emotion. With Reunion we had perhaps a slower moving character based episode. Travelers, for me, was fun and action and just pure entertainment, and I won't belittle it because of that. I take it for what it is, and enjoy it :)

Excellent points. The story was not as deep as the others of season 4 but it was still a very entertaing ep. I truly had no issues with it because I go in to each ep aware of what that ep is. Comparing to other eps is pointless because this is very different than other eps. I loved the story,characters,action,humor and drama and for me it was very enjoyable.

Falcon Horus
November 1st, 2007, 10:50 AM
I disagree. This was a great use of 42 minutes and one of the best eps.

Then I must agree to disagree. :)

Mitchell82
November 1st, 2007, 10:55 AM
Then I must agree to disagree. :)

I'm just thankfull you are giving this season a chance. I loved this ep mainly because I'm a Shep fan and IMHO it was a good story with good characters plot and drama. Quick question though, since you've stated you really haven't liked the eps so far are you going to keep watching or bail?

Falcon Horus
November 1st, 2007, 11:12 AM
I'm just thankfull you are giving this season a chance. I loved this ep mainly because I'm a Shep fan and IMHO it was a good story with good characters plot and drama.

Well, Sheppard is just an other character to me so... therefor probably not too hot about the episode. As I said, for Shep-lovers this is probably a splendid ep.


Quick question though, since you've stated you really haven't liked the eps so far are you going to keep watching or bail?

I may (stress the may) like DG, and Jason was awesome in Reunion. But I will stick around, hoping it'll get better. I stuck through season 9 of SG1 to find season 10 pretty super.

Mitchell82
November 1st, 2007, 12:58 PM
Well, Sheppard is just an other character to me so... therefor probably not too hot about the episode. As I said, for Shep-lovers this is probably a splendid ep.



I may (stress the may) like DG, and Jason was awesome in Reunion. But I will stick around, hoping it'll get better. I stuck through season 9 of SG1 to find season 10 pretty super.

Good to hear, though you might want to change your sig (about Heightmier)

Falcon Horus
November 1st, 2007, 01:01 PM
Good to hear, though you might want to change your sig (about Heightmier)

Something wrong with it? I'm not giving anything away, am I? :o

Listy
November 1st, 2007, 01:23 PM
You and your whip! :eek:

I loved the whump too. No surprises there.

I just watched Travelers again, by myself, quietly, and took into consideration all the perspectives and pov's I've read here, on this thread, which is a really good thing to do, I believe, and is one of the benefits from reading and being active on this forum.

You know what? Quite simply, I was entertained by it. Is it going to be one of the episodes that tugs on my heart strings? Nope. Is it going to be one where I think, 'Wow! Who'd have thought that could happen?' Nope. Is it going to be an episode where I think, 'My God, how did they come up with that idea?' Again, that would be a negative. But - I simply really enjoyed the episode.

For 43 minutes, I was taken from my everyday world, and transported somewhere else for a really fun/action episode, that, oh yeah, featured my favourite character prominently, and was one where he got knocked around a bit by a feisty and attractive woman.

Will Travelers be an episode where I watch and ponder the meaning of the Universe? No. But, as a scifi action episode, with amusing moments, the introduction of a new ally who could actually help in the battle against the enemies the good guys face in the Pegasus Galaxy, some cool spaceship shots, and some great character moments, then, it succeeded very well for me.

I thought about it hard, and I still say the story was perhaps a little bit thin, but the episode was successful for me, simply because I liked it and found myself engrossed in it. It was just fun to watch, and for me that's what the show is all about - being entertained. Could it have been better? Undoubtedly, in my opinion, but I feel that way about every episode I watch to a certain extent, because I'd have tweaked it to suit what I wanted to exactly see. I enjoy many different sorts of episodes of SGA, and this one, for me, isn't any less of an episode because it doesn't have a deep plot, or isn't horrifying or hysterically funny. One thing I like is a variety of episodes. With Adrift, Lifeline and DG we had what I thought were serious episodes, full of emotion. With Reunion we had perhaps a slower moving character based episode. Travelers, for me, was fun and action and just pure entertainment, and I won't belittle it because of that. I take it for what it is, and enjoy it :)

Very well put! Its nice to see other people are enjoying the episode for the what it was Fun!


Sheppard is my favorite character and I am so enjoying the Sheppard that is in S4 and Travelers. I have really cringed at some of the childish jokes, ‘the boys,’ and mom Weir from previous seasons. Sheppard can be laid back and sarcastic, but he needs to be a credible and competent adult at the same time. We have that so far this season.

So far he has shown his command capabilities and his knowledge of computers and Ancient technology. In Travelers he activates the Ancient warship and clearly understands the displays and its various systems. I actually cheered when he fixed the crystals in the damaged control chair. (Probably just the Ancient equivalent of a fuse but still…) This is the Sheppard I want to see more of.

Despite his being more capable here, the lighter tone, and the myriad of problems with the episode, as any episode of anything, for me, this was a fun episode, a gift to all of us who enjoy Sheppard. :)

BTW, Sheppard can kiss anyone he wants, any time he wants. He’s a character. It’s entertainment. It was a joke. He finally gets to kiss a girl and she stuns him. I liked it. It fits nicely into my suspension of disbelief. Close your eyes the next time. You probably won’t have to bother too often given his history with women.

I am undeterred by the onslaught and persistence of the hatred for Sheppard, Travelers, S4, and the current incarnation of Atlantis. Go for it. It’ll just be a repeat of numerous posts from numerous threads. Might as well just copy one forward or give a few URLs of previous posts. Not like we haven’t heard it all before. :rolleyes:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts nicely written.

SoulReaver
November 1st, 2007, 01:39 PM
You know what? Quite simply, I was entertained by it. Is it going to be one of the episodes that tugs on my heart strings? Nope. Is it going to be one where I think, 'Wow! Who'd have thought that could happen?' Nope. Is it going to be an episode where I think, 'My God, how did they come up with that idea?' Again, that would be a negative. But - I simply really enjoyed the episode.

For 43 minutes, I was taken from my everyday world, and transported somewhere else for a really fun/action episode, that, oh yeah, featured my favourite character prominently, and was one where he got knocked around a bit by a feisty and attractive woman.

Will Travelers be an episode where I watch and ponder the meaning of the Universe? No. But, as a scifi action episode, with amusing moments, the introduction of a new ally who could actually help in the battle against the enemies the good guys face in the Pegasus Galaxy, some cool spaceship shots, and some great character moments, then, it succeeded very well for me.

I thought about it hard, and I still say the story was perhaps a little bit thin, but the episode was successful for me, simply because I liked it and found myself engrossed in it. It was just fun to watch, and for me that's what the show is all about - being entertained. Could it have been better? Undoubtedly, in my opinion, but I feel that way about every episode I watch to a certain extent, because I'd have tweaked it to suit what I wanted to exactly see. I enjoy many different sorts of episodes of SGA, and this one, for me, isn't any less of an episode because it doesn't have a deep plot, or isn't horrifying or hysterically funny. One thing I like is a variety of episodes. With Adrift, Lifeline and DG we had what I thought were serious episodes, full of emotion. With Reunion we had perhaps a slower moving character based episode. Travelers, for me, was fun and action and just pure entertainment, and I won't belittle it because of that. I take it for what it is, and enjoy it :)now that is well said http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/icones/smilies/jap.gif

edit> bummer, apparently I've to wait 24h or something before I can rep anyone else
till then you'll have to make do with this :
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9378/bgheartuk4.gif

blue-skyz
November 1st, 2007, 02:41 PM
Another take on the kiss and the stunner

Sheppard and Larrin had an alliance of sorts, they had a common enemy. Sheppard saves her life three times if you count pulling her into the closet. She saves his by bravely luring the Wraith to a place where he can kill them with a drone.

She represents an advanced group of humans. Sheppard has to be salivating at the idea of having the capabilities of an Ancient warship to use against the Wraith. He has to want to take the ship or form some kind of alliance with them to have the use of all of their ships. She comes on to him. He doesn’t want to reject her. He wants to have the opportunity to talk to her about their helping each other. He kisses her. In this scenario his motives are pure even if he is still careless with his trust and the stunner.

In the end he gets what he wants, his freedom and apparently some kind of alliance. Maybe his wiliness to help her and his willingness to trust her in spite of how he was treated, proved to her that he could be trusted.

bluealien
November 1st, 2007, 02:55 PM
I got dibs on all of season 5 and beyond ;)



Bwahahah! Oh, I'm sure you'd get enough folks signing up, but folks might disagree on what 'common sense' is ;)




Don't hate Shep for his stupidity in Travelers (just at the very end, when he foolishly let Larrin kiss him then steal the gun and stun him). Just think it was, well, dumb due to Larrin's readily demonstrated duplicity. And he has kissed the girl before (Teer in "Epiphany" and I'm rather sure they did a lot more than kiss and I'm pretty sure that was the only time he did that, at least that we know of). ;)


I didn't find anything that Shep did in Travelers stupid... and that includes the kiss.

blue-skyz
November 1st, 2007, 03:11 PM
And he has kissed the girl before (Teer in "Epiphany" and I'm rather sure they did a lot more than kiss and I'm pretty sure that was the only time he did that, at least that we know of).
Actually, IIRC, Sheppard has kissed the girl three times, Chaya, Teer, and the tart in the Tower (?). None of those were in S3, so his average is not too good, it may be a while before he gets another kiss. We can only hope that the dry spell doesn’t last as long this time. ;)

PG15
November 1st, 2007, 04:39 PM
Ah, but sir, you've broken our covenant already by posting in this forum after I called dibs on it. By voiding your agreement to respect my claim to this forum, I am free to disregard any claim you have made to any other forum.

That said, credit where credit's due for pointing out the ambiguity.

Ah, but I wasn't posting common sense (if I were, I would not have voided the contract; it's only common sense not to), therefore it doesn't void our contract, which enabled us to spread said common sense only, and does not regular are general posting privileges.


I got dibs on all of season 5 and beyond ;)


Blast! I forgot. Well played, well played.

Copernicus
November 1st, 2007, 05:56 PM
Ah, but I wasn't posting common sense (if I were, I would not have voided the contract; it's only common sense not to), therefore it doesn't void our contract, which enabled us to spread said common sense only, and does not regular are general posting privileges.
Point taken, but then I'd argue that calling dibs on only a single forum when it will likely become unused within a few weeks did not constitute common sense either. In fact, neither did calling dibs on only the season four forum. I guess none of us were making sense, so I move that we abandon the dibs concept in general.

Jill_Ion
November 1st, 2007, 07:15 PM
I call dibs on future use of the dibs concept!



http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p282/Jill_Ion/Stargate/joef_s3_03.jpg
:sheppard: Can you do that?

Actionhank
November 1st, 2007, 07:29 PM
IMO several reasons.. 1) We don't know that 3-4 drones would be enough, 2) why run the risk of only damaging the enemy when you can take them out and 3) perhaps john did not know how many remained and just told the ship "Fire all remaining drones" in that thought..

Now that would be reckless, wouldn't it. ;) Anyway - I think the answer is many drones make for a nice visual effect, for sure. I mean we've seen him shoot only one drone so we can assume he has precise control. Gee, what a waste of ammo... like... shooting at sparrows with cannon balls. :D

PG15
November 1st, 2007, 07:34 PM
Point taken, but then I'd argue that calling dibs on only a single forum when it will likely become unused within a few weeks did not constitute common sense either. In fact, neither did calling dibs on only the season four forum. I guess none of us were making sense, so I move that we abandon the dibs concept in general.

Agreed.


I call dibs on future use of the dibs concept!




Go ahead. We won't be using it anyway, as per the above agreement. ;)

Jill_Ion
November 1st, 2007, 08:17 PM
Bwahahaha...part one of my plan is complete. :wraithqueen10:

vaberella
November 1st, 2007, 10:57 PM
3 OUT OF 10

Basically I found TRW to be better than this episode. The feeling was off, the story was poorly executed---in the sense that it was totally not what I expected and hoped for since they opened the door to a lot in that episode and didn't complete a darn thing.

Now, I'm very pro S4, and those who've seen my posts in the past, I was worried about this ep and I wasn't looking forward to it, but that changed when I heard about the fact that these guys were after John's DNA--which made me think..."Hell yeah, DRAMA!!" Unfortunately, that wasn't the case and I will elaborate here, but I also wanted to say that Jill Wagner did not sell Larin to me. Yes, I actually bought Noreena faster than I ever bought Larin who was one of the weakest leaders I have seen. ~sigh~



Where to begin, let me whinge a bit in the general terms and then break it down by characters.

First off, I felt I was forced and pushing to watch this ep. I was expecting this feeling more so for Reunion, but I adored Reunion and that goes doubly for Adrift and Doppelganger, since I still have yet to see Lifeline (I was traveling...in Canada---but some may understand the life of a hosteller---ugh never again (only the Hilton from now on!!). In any event, I felt forced, the story was progressing slow mainly because the story was uninteresting and really all Shep.

I really liked the start of the season because it balanced "primary character ep" with "team ep" Reunion being a perfect example. You are fully aware this is a Ronon ep, but you also had a good balance of everyone else, this was also seen in Doppelganger (uber sexy ep). I love and respect that the writers were able to show their skill in balancing character participation. This episode---backpedaled to sad eps in S3 and S2 where John (Weir and Rodney) was primary character and really---I adore John, but come on!!!

This didn't show any real strength of John's besides the fact that he may be able to read Ancient...woohoo! :mckay: We also know that his pyro-technic abilities have been kept well oiled. ~sigh~ All in all weak.

:sheppard: ~sigh~ Where to begin...I just wasn't seeing this ep up to par. I felt I had great emotion from depth to funnies in eps like Adrift and amazing decision making skills in eps like DG and especially Reunion. This episode, didn't give me anything. I may be the only one who was thinking this and I thought it was the stupidiest thing I ever saw. So John lets wraith (who uses an amazingly great conditioner) go, then turns his back (wraith barely turns the corner) and macks with leading lady sorta-villain. I have no problems with Shep and his kirkettes, cause well...he's Shep. But I was a bit irked, how could he trust the wraith to leave, how does he not know that said Wraith doesn't have other cats waiting in the wings. That wraith doesn't have any alterior motives---it was too easy and it was ridiculous on top of being easy. :S

Larin (Jill Wagner)-->:vala: ~sigh~ She did not sell me Larin in any way shape or form. Maybe her execution was weak, I have no clue, but I found her fairly unresponsive and was utterly disappointed by this. She didn't even give me the Teyla stoicism---which I can identify as her unhappy and suspicious...she was just blah. Although, I like the kiss with her and Shep (although I felt nothing). For example, John and Chaya--uber hotness and nice energy---loving it...John and girl from Tower (her name escapes me) I liked it and it was a good reaction from John. Although Teer freaked me out a bit, I loved her kiss with John. John and Larin? Maybe he's bored of kissing so many alien ladies---but I got nothing, although I found it an "acceptable" kiss. Only I could put it.

The rest of the guys---worthless. McKay was worthless, Teyla/Ronon/Lorne---unnecessary, so I have nothing to say in regards to their input. I felt the team companionship I was given in the last couple of eps was nullified to the point of death in this episode. I'm not paticular on the glorification of John without his team. I realize this is great for some of the "fanatics" of John, but just as I had problems with Common Ground (which I found to be crap for the John character) I find this to be just as empty. ~sigh~

Note: John is no BEN!!! NotLD reference.

Dunno, it was just sad...I was upset there wasn't more about the gene thing. Maybe I was banking on the direction of that storyline more, so I was setting myself up for failure. That really upset me the most, I was hoping to see some great torture drama from that, nothing. It was kind of thrown there, deemed to fail, and it was the end; yes, I'm sure they'll revisit, but whatever...

:wraith: I was glad I got some wraith, they redeemed the ep from a 2 to a 3. :S They had great hair and I liked their leathers.

Overall, I compare the execution to being similar to TRW and I actually ganered more entertainment from TRW (I never thought I'd say that...)...for those who know my utter dislike for that ep, it's saying quite a bit. I rarely dislike an ep, but this and TRW are have created a category. For some wondering, I actually really liked The Tower (and I might be the only one, but I loved Epiphany!!)---that says a lot considering how much bad mouthing that ep received.

~sigh~ :(


3 OUT OF 10

Elinor
November 1st, 2007, 11:40 PM
:lol: Thanks. :D With everything that's gone on the last day or so, I haven't had time to read everyone's post. :( But, give me a day or two to play catch up and i'll whip this thread into shape. ;) :P :D Oh hang on, didn't I say i'd use the whip sparringly from this point on, hon? ;)On topic! Luffed the bloody whump *thud*

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-001.gif


You and your whip! :eek:

I loved the whump too. No surprises there.

I just watched Travelers again, by myself, quietly, and took into consideration all the perspectives and pov's I've read here, on this thread, which is a really good thing to do, I believe, and is one of the benefits from reading and being active on this forum.

You know what? Quite simply, I was entertained by it...........




Despite his being more capable here, the lighter tone, and the myriad of problems with the episode, as any episode of anything, for me, this was a fun episode, a gift to all of us who enjoy Sheppard. :)



Well said both of you...and I agree! This was pure fun for me to. I know a lot of people enjoy analyzing episodes right down to the littlest detail and that's fine, if they like doing that. Me? I just lose myself for 45 (?) mins each week with characters I like and a storyline I like and really don't have the time or inclination to go into things too much. Sheppard is my fave character and I'm really enjoying what we've been getting for him this season and 'Travelers' delivered the goods for me!

:)

jenks
November 2nd, 2007, 08:05 AM
Saggy effort. I shall say no more.

vaberella
November 2nd, 2007, 08:15 AM
Saggy effort. I shall say no more.

Hah...Jenks managed to sum up everything I thought in two words..."saggy effort" is perfect. :S

*greenies*

Linzi
November 2nd, 2007, 08:27 AM
now that is well said http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/icones/smilies/jap.gif

edit> bummer, apparently I've to wait 24h or something before I can rep anyone else
till then you'll have to make do with this :
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9378/bgheartuk4.gif
Thanks! That's much nicer than green rep anyway! :)