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View Full Version : Replicators will wipe out the Wraith



JSPuddlejumper
October 14th, 2007, 03:05 PM
Unless something drastic is done, the Wraith are finished, only a matter of time.

Replicators have many things going for them:

1) Far faster building capability
2) Much harder to kill than the Ancients
3) Same technology, if not slightly above the Ancients

MW Replicators nearly destroyed the Asgard, after a long battle (decades?). The Asgard had much better tech than the Wraith to fight against the Replicators.

Only way to defeat them: deactivation code, or that planetary wide anti-replicator weapon working.

elbo
October 14th, 2007, 03:26 PM
I agree with your assestment. The Wraith only chance is to deactivate them again, at which moment the Asurans could simply attack them, free willingly this time.

I think that we should play at two ends and to offer the Wraith disruptor technology, to make the Wraith a harder target and to prolong the war until the Asuran defeat and then take care the Wraith using laser technology on their ships.

prion
October 14th, 2007, 03:55 PM
Unless something drastic is done, the Wraith are finished, only a matter of time.

Replicators have many things going for them:

1) Far faster building capability
2) Much harder to kill than the Ancients
3) Same technology, if not slightly above the Ancients

MW Replicators nearly destroyed the Asgard, after a long battle (decades?). The Asgard had much better tech than the Wraith to fight against the Replicators.

Only way to defeat them: deactivation code, or that planetary wide anti-replicator weapon working.

The Asurans are superior in that they don't use emotion, just simple logic, to live by. They don't need to eat, sleep, etc, and bullets don't do any damage, wraith hands sure don't. At some point something will have to go wrong or else the replicators will wipe out the wraith and blech, we'll be stuck with another replicator vs humans war. been there, done that.

SoulReaver
October 14th, 2007, 04:07 PM
Only way to defeat them: deactivation code, or that planetary wide anti-replicator weapon working.uh how will the disruptor tech be of any use again ? the asurans have now adapted, and with neither ancients nor asgards around (which would've meant at least a minor possibility of modifying/improving the arw - or better yet devising a new type of arw) there's just about zilch that can be done on the "weapons" front

Sarge300491
October 14th, 2007, 04:15 PM
Unless something drastic is done, the Wraith are finished, only a matter of time.

Replicators have many things going for them:

1) Far faster building capability
2) Much harder to kill than the Ancients
3) Same technology, if not slightly above the Ancients

MW Replicators nearly destroyed the Asgard, after a long battle (decades?). The Asgard had much better tech than the Wraith to fight against the Replicators.

Only way to defeat them: deactivation code, or that planetary wide anti-replicator weapon working.

im assuming thats why there currently trying to deactivate there code like they did in the past, and they know mckay has tampered with there code before so there most likely going to try and capture him again.

Lord batchi ball
October 14th, 2007, 04:59 PM
The Asurans are superior in that they don't use emotion, just simple logic, to live by. They don't need to eat, sleep, etc, and bullets don't do any damage, wraith hands sure don't. At some point something will have to go wrong or else the replicators will wipe out the wraith and blech, we'll be stuck with another replicator vs humans war. been there, done that.

They do seem to use emotion(which makes no sense) in the fact that they hate humans because they are the favored desedents, or something like that, but the point remains they are jealous of us.

Xaeden
October 14th, 2007, 05:20 PM
uh how will the disruptor tech be of any use again ? the asurans have now adapted, and with neither ancients nor asgards around (which would've meant at least a minor possibility of modifying/improving the arw - or better yet devising a new type of arw) there's just about zilch that can be done on the "weapons" front

They have only adapted to one frequency. Once an episode is over they go back, reset their weapons to work on a new frequency, and they can then use them on the Asurans all over again the next time they meet until the same thing happens and they adapt to that.

The problem though is that shields block the distrupter, so since the Asurans are attacking the Wraith by flying around on shielded ships it won't be of much use to them (they could kill a few who attack them on the ground, but very few Wraith would die that way compared to the Wraith who die because of their ships). The best they can hope for is to attack the Asuran homeworld with it. However, the Asurans are still out there with their ships and can just return to their planet and remake all those who were lost in such an attack and before that happens it gives the Wraith the opportunity to loot the city. Which means they can get their hands on lots of Ancient tech (inlcuding the crystal needed to dial the Milky Way and possibly advanced hyperdrive technology). So giving the Wraith that technology would not help them win the war with the replicators but it would help them escape to a new food source (even if you just give them hand guns, it's too risky that they might make a version to take out the Asuran homeworld).

SoulReaver
October 14th, 2007, 05:33 PM
They have only adapted to one frequency. Once an episode is over they go back, reset their weapons to work on a new frequency, and they can then use them on the Asurans all over again the next time they meet until the same thing happens and they adapt to that.yeah that's kinda the way it works with the whole phazer vs borg thing (rotate phazer frequencies so the borg can't adapt)

but I'm not sure it's that simple with the arw vs replicators

remember in s8 when Thor tested the arw on a couple of assimilated hataks ? (that was after the replicators had gotten hold of the arw specs & subsequently made themselves resistant to it)
the arw worked on the 1st hatak but was useless thereafter, the bugs on the other hataks had already adapted
if it were only a "frequency thing" then things would've been simple, Thor could've just changed the frequency of the arw (that can't be complicated can it ?) & destroyed the remaining replicators in the area - heck he could even have set the arw to automatically retune its frequency after each shot

also it wouldn't have been so crucial to open all gates simultaneously for the dakara weapon (if the initial blast missed some replicators then just change to another random frequency & refire the weapon, repeat till no more bugs)

Xaeden
October 14th, 2007, 05:52 PM
For whatever reason it takes time to change the frequency and cannot be done in battle. There never was a valid explaination given for it, but for plot purposes it works better when you can get to a point in the episode where the weapon no longer works, but it will again next episode.

We know for sure it's a frequency thing though as they have said as much repeatedly. For example see the below Return Part II quotes:


McKAY: Well, normally I would share your run-and-gun enthusiasm, but these weapons are only gonna work for so long before they manage to identify the frequency they use to disrupt the bonds that hold the Replicators together.


McKAY: If we’re gonna destroy these guys using Replicator disruptors, we have to hit them all at once. We’ll probably only get a dozen or so shots off before they manage to figure out the frequency.

As far as the issue with the replicators of the Milky Way, we do not know that it was possible to use different frequencies for the weapon on Dakara. It was not designed as a replicator weapon so it may have just had one setting and since that setting was never before used on them it worked the first time. However, even if it were possible to change it you're assuming that it's any easy task to figure out (surving replicators could've ran away and/or attacked the weapon before they did so). You don't get it right the first time and they may simply retreat until they can launch a sneak attack against the weapon or until they get the idea to use a craft with shielding that is specifically designed to block it.

SoulReaver
October 14th, 2007, 06:04 PM
heck yeah the plot explanation is more credible hehe...
(also figured the dakara gun had only one setting since it wasn't meant to be used as an arw)


We know for sure it's a frequency thing though as they have said as much repeatedly. For example see the below Return Part II quotes:that makes sense yes


however, remember Thor had to study replicarter's cells before retuning the arw (to test it on the repli-hataks) - which suggests that the replicators had a "frequency" of their own, and that it's the arw that had to adapt to the replicators' frequency (and not the replicators that had to adapt to the arw frequency)

at least that's what I thought, but then the dakara pwarw also worked on the replicators, which would mean that the pwarw just happened to be set at exactly the same frequency that the replicators were using, that would be too much of a coincidence

so another plot inconsistency, looks like


personally I'd go for the "retune the arw, and it's up to the replicators to adapt", as in the sga episode you quoted, but it's difficult to believe that changing a frequency can be that complex. c'mon, just include +/- buttons on the damn guns. lol

cavalierlwt
October 14th, 2007, 06:51 PM
On one hand I like to imagine that the Wraith and the Replicators may weaken themselves to the point where Atlantis can finish them off, but there one major risk: constant war can cause groups to evolve technology rapidly. Let's face it, war is a hell of a motivating factor toward technological advancement. I'd hate to see the Wraith wind up taking their technology to the level of Asgards after fighting with the Replicators for a couple of years.`

DetriusXii
October 15th, 2007, 08:18 AM
heck yeah the plot explanation is more credible hehe...
(also figured the dakara gun had only one setting since it wasn't meant to be used as an arw)

that makes sense yes


however, remember Thor had to study replicarter's cells before retuning the arw (to test it on the repli-hataks) - which suggests that the replicators had a "frequency" of their own, and that it's the arw that had to adapt to the replicators' frequency (and not the replicators that had to adapt to the arw frequency)

at least that's what I thought, but then the dakara pwarw also worked on the replicators, which would mean that the pwarw just happened to be set at exactly the same frequency that the replicators were using, that would be too much of a coincidence

so another plot inconsistency, looks like


personally I'd go for the "retune the arw, and it's up to the replicators to adapt", as in the sga episode you quoted, but it's difficult to believe that changing a frequency can be that complex. c'mon, just include +/- buttons on the damn guns. lol

Well, there could actually be a scientific explanation to the Dakara weapon in that it had such a large bandwidth in the kiron particle spectrum and that the signal was immensely strong at all wavelengths/frequencies. Although then, the Stargates would have had to be capable of reproducing signals or that the signal was a googol of intensity so that it could be split across all the stargates with a strong signal. Compared to the hand version or Thor's ship version where, because they don't have the understanding of kiron particle physics, they have difficulty generating a white light.

Personally, I think that the Asurans should be always hurt (not one shot killed) by concentrated blasts of the the ARW. Enough of an intensity can increases the signal intensity of the tail ends of the signal significantly enough. They're an amorphous blob that gets to communicate in subspace and change shape to suit their purpose. The only ones capable of facing them 1-on-1 are the Ori priors because telekinesis is also such a significant leap in natural ability compared to the regular races because of the fact that they are also ridiculously overpowered. SG-1's Quest Part 2 conveniently forgot about the prior with Adria. The battle would have played out much differently with two Ori telekinetics versus one for Daniel Jackson.

SoulReaver
October 15th, 2007, 08:55 AM
Well, there could actually be a scientific explanation to the Dakara weapon in that it had such a large bandwidth in the kiron particle spectrum and that the signal was immensely strong at all wavelengths/frequencies. but that is also unlikely since carter said that the replicators would be able to adapt to the dakara weapon (hence the necessity to zap them all simultaneously) which means that the weapon was only set at a specific frequency/cipher/whatever (either that, or carter was wrong and the pwarw was a different kind of arw (the "multifrequency type") to which the replicators could never adapt)

as for the asurans as far as we know it's the same as with the ida replicators, either the arw disintegrates them completely or it has no effect against them, in either case it never just damages them

DetriusXii
October 15th, 2007, 10:37 AM
but that is also unlikely since carter said that the replicators would be able to adapt to the dakara weapon (hence the necessity to zap them all simultaneously) which means that the weapon was only set at a specific frequency/cipher/whatever (either that, or carter was wrong and the pwarw was a different kind of arw (the "multifrequency type") to which the replicators could never adapt)

as for the asurans as far as we know it's the same as with the ida replicators, either the arw disintegrates them completely or it has no effect against them, in either case it never just damages them

Good point. I had forgot about the need to hit them all at once with the Dakara weapon. I guess only telekinesis is an effective counter to the Replicators.

garhkal
October 17th, 2007, 07:47 PM
On one hand I like to imagine that the Wraith and the Replicators may weaken themselves to the point where Atlantis can finish them off, but there one major risk: constant war can cause groups to evolve technology rapidly. Let's face it, war is a hell of a motivating factor toward technological advancement. I'd hate to see the Wraith wind up taking their technology to the level of Asgards after fighting with the Replicators for a couple of years.`

up. Look at all the advancement we got from WW2.

Jovian Diplomat
November 11th, 2007, 09:51 PM
At the same time...
Do you remember the Eurondans we encountered in SG-1? The racist cloners?
Not everyone is able to make advancements when faced with such a taxing war. While the Wraith have proven themselves ingenious in the past, they may not be able to come up with generic technological enhancements, they may be isolated to fighting the Asurans nanites, or just screwing with their base code.
The wraith and the Asurans might not have the human spirit!

garhkal
November 12th, 2007, 01:02 PM
Well as per travelers (iirc) the wraith are at least holding the asurans off...