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GateWorld
October 12th, 2007, 03:42 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/403.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/403.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/403.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">REUNION</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 403</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
When a group of Ronon's people enlist the team's help in raiding a Wraith weapons facility, Ronon reconsiders whether his future lies in Atlantis or with his friends.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/403.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Ltcolshepjumper
October 12th, 2007, 06:55 PM
I should have known it would be the Asurans. so the Asurans started to attack the Wraith before.

GATEGOD
October 12th, 2007, 07:03 PM
Can you say the best episode of the season!!!

Mattathias2.0
October 12th, 2007, 07:05 PM
I am very pleased with this episode.

* The teyla/ronan talk.
* The Carter/Rodney, and Carter/Ronan.
* The Wraith backround in regards to the Asurans. is it me or is that a different Wraith complex?
* The battle between Ronan and the other Satedans.
* The Carter/teal'c talk.
* is that the same outfit Carter first appeared in in the SG-1 pilot?
* Carter went offworld on her first week in.


10/10

Suzotchka
October 12th, 2007, 07:05 PM
Does anyone know why this episode started at 10:02 and ran til 11:02?

Ltcolshepjumper
October 12th, 2007, 07:07 PM
Great episode. One thing I do wonder though. did the Asurans attack the wraith with ships 10,000 years ago? Why didn't Oberoth mention that in Progeny?
Also, I hope they don't deactivate the attack code. It adds an interesting element to the show.
during flash gordon a Battlestar: Razor clip (2 min in length) was shown.

justhere1971
October 12th, 2007, 07:07 PM
Does anyone know why this episode started at 10:02 and ran til 11:02?

I think it's because of the BSG Razor 2 min. preview that runs during FG.

justhere1971
October 12th, 2007, 07:09 PM
Loved Ronon. Yeah that's about it.

WingedPegasus
October 12th, 2007, 07:09 PM
What's with the fake blood? It looks like red finger paint. :S

Ltcolshepjumper
October 12th, 2007, 07:10 PM
don't know. The Asuran-Wraith fight was nice, but short.

ToasterOnFire
October 12th, 2007, 07:12 PM
ALLEZ CUISINE!!!!! :D :D

More later. It was an okay ep, with some great moments but also some problems.

Also, was RL showing in that ep? The bf noted it in the training session but I missed it.

vaberella
October 12th, 2007, 07:13 PM
9.5 out of 10

Reps? After hearing the Wraith, I'm wondering if those cats are good or bad. Meaning, I liked them and thought of them as misunderstood---the idea of an "abomination" is interesting for me to hear out of a Wraith's mouth. But then live machines would always be thought that way. No feelings, so sensitivity, no idea of pain or anguish or lust and happiness or envy---the wraith although specied-evolution feel those things and creates the impression are they an abomination or not----technically their not as they feel all of the above and much like all animals on earth are an animal in their own right. Currently in the Peggy, ever since the Atlantis Ex, vying for head of the kingdom. Hmmm...I can see why the SGA Ex might join forces with the Wraith against the Asurans. Anyway, I'll ponder my metaphysical/philosophical thoughts on another occasion. I just found it striking to hear that out of the Wraith's mouth and made me take a step back to re-evaluate. I like eps that make me think---plenty of action, friendship, and I like the added level of deep thinking. Good stuff once again.

General Review: Great ep overall, it was actionary and good balance of storyline and dialogue for the characters and actors invovled. It also sets a good ground work of what to expect. Damn and the planetary base of the Wraith is fantastical to say the least. That was great to see and it looks like their based in the Andirondacks or Rockies---how attractive. They have good taste in locations---very aesthetic.

I like this move into the wraith hives and the usage of wraith and reps..uber.

Much like the Wraith planet---Atlantis is uber hot. Wow---I think we went into HD, because this is speccky.

:teyla:I'll start with her since she had the "wickedest" scene in the beginning of the ep. Teyla rocks more than anything. She had great dialogue as well, I love that she said "stay strong Rodney" ---I found something extremely endearing about that line. Plus her talk to Ronon's peep was uber hot. Is it me or was she flirty in that ep. Anyway I like her there--definitely in your face, kick ass, and not sitting back taking up the show. It's a bit weird considering what we've been given of the character in the past, but very very very welcome. I like her here and gives her a growth of the character even if slightly. I loved her expression when Ronon embraced his comrades..to me it will live on in SGA history. It was pure class. I need a moving icon of that expression. It was uber...

:sam:I really liked the character here. One qualm [two qualms to be exact]...I don't like she went off world---since I hated that about WEir. But she is an actionary character from SG1 and is used to it...but in this role this shouldn't be here. I wasn't feeling it. Her and Ronon was raw...Ronon hit below the belt and Sam hit back as she should. She's not DW and she never will be and people need to accept that on the show and out. Overall Sam was great despite the offworld experience. Back to her leadership. It was just really cool. (Problem two--)I wasn't also keen on that bit of humor after the speech---it lessened the impact and sincerity of her presence on Atlantis to me. I guess that might have been just me. It wasn't needed there and it was rather insulting. Like her speech was contrived---I realize she was sort of mocking McKay but....meh...not my cup of tea. Her moment with John about Weir was great. She said straight out "No!" but also recognized the need to get DW, but she's not going to take the risk. I really like this, becasue I always felt in many of the plans in the past under DW's leadership---DW was totally uncaring on the magnitude of the danger and was willing to risk as much as possible. That sort of bothered me because she did that on countless occasions. Risk is part of the job and I respect taking risk once in a while--but some were more stupid than others---The Tower comes to mind, Progeny, and Michael (ugh!!). So Carter's position here was strong and to the point. Carter was cool and she wasn't insulting to John's capabilities and position.

:ronan:Great Ronon ep. Ronon gets all the best eps anyway. We all know it and I've come to accept it. We know and recognize him as a person and he's one wonderful arse person. The effect and what he's been through is poignant. It's sad and depressing...meeting his brethren and blood and losing them. It's raw. Ronon always managest to make me cry. I can't understand it. The writers really love that cat. His moment with Teyla was great---her whipping his ass is so much like the brother/sister relationship I'm used too. I love the ending response and their moments and I always will.
I can't wait to see more between Ronon and Carter as a matter of fact..good relationship starter and it's raw.

:sheppard:Ahhh...now he's fantastic. Really and truly he is fantastic. I think Sheppard's character has come a long way. He's less hesitant and more decisive. He's alert and aware of the pros and cons, not to mention he's a bloody great leader. I really do see a change from S2 John. He's not jumping on the reckless bandwagon and knows better now, now he's doing it semi-by-the-book and fully recognizing his limitations.

:mckay:I love Mc, he's been annoying me a bit. Which I never thought would happen, but overall he did well here. Nothing really poignant for him unlike Teyla, Ronon, John, and Carter. But he was on point and typical McKay. I liked him and Zelenka---he's more gentle and appreciative towards him which was very welcome. Plus, I was interested on how on point he was with the whole relationship between the replicator/wraith thing.

Overall as I said, great ep. I had my moments of "meh" :S but I liked it a lot. I think the Ronon character is well put together----best and really still he maintains being the ONLY three-dimensional character on the show. It was great to see that again and enjoy it. Teyla and John definitely moved up a notch. John is smart...I like when he's characterized as an intelligent and strategic military man and pushing the humor to the side. It always irked me when I saw that in S3. He's becoming more "merc" like to me, and I like mercs over military men. :D So that's cool to have on screen. In any event. I really and fully enjoyed this ep.



9.5 out of 10

vaberella
October 12th, 2007, 07:14 PM
ALLEZ CUISINE!!!!! :D :D

More later. It was an okay ep, with some great moments but also some problems.

Also, was RL showing in that ep? The bf noted it in the training session but I missed it.

Yes she was, actually I thought that ep was good in giving Teyla and RL some more definition. It's still not "her" ep, but it had a good dose of her and it was well put together. It definitely raised my hopes on more to see.

Vala_M
October 12th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Great episode! It felt a little rushed to me. The Sam leaving the SGC thing was a bit sad but other than that, it was great. I loved the beginning where McKay thought that he was getting command of Atlantis! That Wraith scientist looked different than most of the Wraith do, was that for any special reason? The Wraith capturing an Asuran, how was that possible? I guess that means the Asurans are attacking the Wraith on the ground as well as by ships. Ronon's got to live with that new tattoo from his "friends" now, wonder how he will handle that? For those of you who don't know, that Tattoo is a family crest of Jason Momoa's and they wanted to weave it into an episode.

Vala,

Ruffles
October 12th, 2007, 07:17 PM
Great episode. One thing I do wonder though. did the Asurans attack the wraith with ships 10,000 years ago? Why didn't Oberoth mention that in Progeny?
Also, I hope they don't deactivate the attack code. It adds an interesting element to the show.
during flash gordon a Battlestar: Razor clip (2 min in length) was shown.

Oberoth failed to mention that they were replicators during his discussion of fighting the Wraith in Progeny. Hard to explain why you stopped attacking if you don't want them to know the Wraith rewrote your base code.


ALLEZ CUISINE!!!!! :D :D

More later. It was an okay ep, with some great moments but also some problems.

Also, was RL showing in that ep? The bf noted it in the training session but I missed it.

She wasn't wearing her normal tummy showing outfit in the sparring session which would lead me to believe that she was showing.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 12th, 2007, 07:19 PM
That makes sense.

justhere1971
October 12th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Oberoth failed to mention that they were replicators during his discussion of fighting the Wraith in Progeny. Hard to explain why you stopped attacking if you don't want them to know the Wraith rewrote your base code.



She wasn't wearing her normal tummy showing outfit in the sparring session which would lead me to believe that she was showing.
But I oh so enjoyed her whupping Ronon. :D That was too much fun.

idlewild202
October 12th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Ha! I actually watching the first airing of the night for once! :p

I really REALLY liked this episode!!

The thing I liked the best was that Sam actualy "clicked"! In the first two episodes she was rather cringe worthy, but in this one, wow, I'm impressed! HUGE improvement, and I really liked that she went with the team instead of staying on Atantis. Big plus for me in her favor. I may actually come to like (but not Love) her on Atlantis if they continue to write this way for her.

Just overall I enjoyed it! I honestly can't think of anything bad to say about it. And of course, the chuckles from the Carter/Rodney pairing is a plus! Yeah, I was expecting it, but it wasn't "old", it was fun!

Liked the action, liked that they involved Teyla more than the first two, liked the Ronon action, liked the Assuran kicking some wraith butt ;)

I agree with a previous poster, 10/10 for this one! :D I am most impressed!!

Edit: Oh yeah, the only thing that was kinda weird was the Wraith dude, is it just me or did he just look creepy??

vaberella
October 12th, 2007, 07:25 PM
She wasn't wearing her normal tummy showing outfit in the sparring session which would lead me to believe that she was showing.

Do you know I didn't notice. Meh...I rarely notice people's attire unless it's leather (so you know I was all over her black jacket. I only have a copy of the dark-cherry one she has---which I bought years ago). But then I care about leather---:S. ~sigh~ I wear too much leather.

*huggies* Rufs!! xoxoxoxo

the fifth man
October 12th, 2007, 07:27 PM
I really enjoyed this episode, pretty much from start to finish. I thought the Teal'c/Sam scene in the SGC was a very fitting farewell to Carter there, and a nice transition to Atlantis. And the Sam and Rodney scenes were great as well (I'm going to love those two working together).:)

Also, it was great to see Teyla and Ronon have a lot to do. Very strong episode for both of them. Ronon has definitely come a long way as a character since he first appeared on SGA.

WingedPegasus
October 12th, 2007, 07:29 PM
Anybody named 'Kanan' in this ep?

AGateFan
October 12th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Paint by the numbers sci-fi. The plot “twist” should have only surprised people who haven’t watched a lot of sci-fi or TV in general. However, that’s fine; it was still a decent ep. Sure there were things that annoyed me. Carter calling Sheppard John was one of them along with her zipped down jacket and hair (I guess regs aren’t the same when in Atlantis uniforms) Sheppard’s unshaven face (although he looked good) was another. Then there’s the logic (or lack thereof) of not just Carter going on the rescue (at least she used to do that for a living) but Zelinka. Mr. scared of his own shadow…at least he was the last time I saw him on an away mission. Oh and even if Carter and Zelinka were going, shouldn’t some actual soldiers have come with them?

OK, OK, paint by the numbers sci-fi doesn’t always make sense. Picard, Kirk, Sisco, Janeway and that other guy all went on away missions when their 2nd in command was already in trouble with the enemy. So, even though I expect more from Stargate I am still OK with it.

I like the replicator ignoring SGA…I saw it coming a mile away and can’t figure out why McKay and Carter wouldn’t. I mean the reps are now programmed to take out wraith, there would be no point to take out SGA at that point. I do like getting the knowledge that the Wraith had reprogrammed the reps a long time ago and are not sure how to do it again if their initial program doesn’t work.

More questions. Why would Sheppard be on the “short list”, as far as I know he has never gotten along with IOA, nor is he particularly diplomatic and was himself surprised to even be promoted to Lt Col. Why would McKay ever think anyone would put him in charge…ok its McKay….why would Zelinka even consider it could be true?

Carter/Teal’c was nice except for T’s stupid hair. Carter/McKay played out about as expected. I think she even had the “are you drunk” look, but maybe that’s me projecting. Hopefully that is done with and never mentioned again.

Ronan continues his habit of becoming the most developed character on Atlantis even if he doesn’t get the most lines. Teyla continues to be given the shaft. First she gets beat up by the losers, then she’s the first to get stunned….but I guess it had to be Mckay to be the last standing as neither Teyla or Shep would bail. But it would have been nice to have Shep go down first ala O’Neil in the NOX ep….just to change things up and give Teyla some heroics. She was good in her scenes with Ronan, just she very much seems like a minor supporting character.

Sheppard was good but gave up on the Weir begging uncharacteristically early for him. I expected more complaining. Not that I am upset with it. I like Carters “give me a plan that could work and I will think about it” and I was happy Shep saw the logic in it. Sort of disappointed no one else brought up Weir…well again except Ronan. That scene with him and Carter was very cool. He reminding me of the first days of his arrival and Carter not flinching (in his presence), yeah she’s dealt with warriors before. I also liked how he didn’t flinch when she subtly threatened him…but then he knew the security issues.

IMHO the most developed characters on Atlantis are McKay and then Ronan (well and Carter for SG-1 watchers). If they can just give Teyla and Sheppard some development then maybe there will be a S5 of SGA.

ToasterOnFire
October 12th, 2007, 07:36 PM
Okay, some thoughts:

-Never once did I worry that Ronon would actually leave Atlantis. I figured that either 1) his friends would die or 2) his friends would do something unsavory to send him back to Atlantis. And both (or 2/3 of #1 anyway) ended up happening, so eh.

-Will we see the Iron Chef host again? Maybe he and Ronon can have a cook off. :D

-So McKay was all giddy about possibly becoming the leader of Atlantis but never once did he mention Weir or have any sort of lingering emotional response to what happened to her. Wow, it really rang false. And hooray for yet another awkward scene between Sam and Rodney! :mckay: Also, didn't DH comment about how McKay was unhappy when Carter came to Atlantis? Because I didn't see that at all.

-I also had a hard time buying that the only reason Shep hasn't gone after Weir is because the IOA and red tape...

-It was nice to see some tension between Ronon and Sam and maybe even some between Shep and Sam, but I'm really hoping that there is going to be more conflict later.

-Eh, I didn't get much out of the Sam/Teal'c scene.

-Teyla had some nice scenes in the training room and at the end of the ep with Ronon. It was nice to see them both get more screentime.

-I thought this was the strongest Ronon ep to date, especially with his final agonizing fight scene with his friends, but I thought Sateda was a better ep overall.

vaberella
October 12th, 2007, 07:36 PM
Anybody named 'Kanan' in this ep?

I think that cat might show up in Teyla's ep--Missing.

Mattathias2.0
October 12th, 2007, 07:40 PM
Am I right in stating Satedans cannot be fed off by Wraith, which is why Ronan was turned into a Runner to begin with?

If that is true, big continuity error.

If not, then I misunderstood.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
October 12th, 2007, 07:41 PM
I will say this, of the episodes that have aired this season, this was the worst episode of the 3 that aired. I think I'm going to like Carter in Atlantis this season.

Ruffles
October 12th, 2007, 07:42 PM
First impression: I really liked this. I was laughing out loud at the beginning with Rodney thinking he would get command (even though I knew that was coming) and his face when he found out who really was. The scene with Teal'c was wonderful. As Vabi said *waves at Vabs!* the look on Teyla's face as Ronon reunites with his friends was great. Nice tie-in to Trinity (she's with him when he finds out he's not the only Satedan alive).

Shep stealing Rodney's present still makes me laugh (as does Rodney's reaction) and the scene with Carter is goofy and awkward and perfect. The best part was going from the silliness to the sudden animosity when Ronon shows up. I LOVE that he threw Weir in her face. Way to not just move on. Almost everyone would react just like he did. And good for her to stand up to him.

I also love the little bits between Carter and Sheppard. I have the feeling it may escalate as the season moves on, but again, they don't overlook the loss of Weir and his determination to find her. It has to be killing him that he left someone behind, especially someone that he considered family. But he accepts Carter's decision, recognizing the wisdom behind the caution.

He's also cautious about attacking a Wraith lab. He only relents when he hears that they are trying to undo what Weir gave her life for. The conversation between Sheppard and Ronon is good. I find it interesting that Teyla went to John first with the news instead of waiting for Ronon.

I love that although Ronon had made his decision to leave, as soon as he heard gunfire, he didn't hesitate to run toward his team. It seems his decision wasn't quite as final as he had thought. I'm of two minds about having the Satedans be Wraith worshippers. On one hand, it makes for great Ronon angst and helps explain how some humans could become worshippers. On the other hand, I would have liked to see him actually make the hard choice between the Satedans and the Lantians. I did notice that Tyre walked away although we don't actually see what happened to him. I wonder if he'll be back (if you know - don't tell me. I like surprises.)

McKay again shows signs of becoming a better team player. He doesn't whine about the mission. He accurately fires his P-90. He hides well enough to escape being captured (until the Satedans show up). He keeps his head after being captured.

It was great to see the storyline carried forward. Interesting to find out that the Wraith actually deactivated the Asurans attack programming. Fascinating to watch the replicator walk right through the gunfire and completely ignore the humans. Nice to see Zelenka go off-world without complaint (is he trying to impress the new boss?).

The fight scene with Ronon and the Satedans - wow! I know it's choreographed, but I'm still amazed they can do that without someone getting hurt. I also loved blindfolded Teyla kicking Ronon's a**. You go girl!

Great look on Sheppard and McKay's faces when Ronon calls them his friends and wants to go home. Nice throwback to earlier in the ep when Tyre tells him that he is an ally to the Lantians not a friend.

Rodney stole Ronon's painting! I can just see it hanging on his wall next to the diplomas. Lovely scene with Teyla at the end although personally I would have liked for it to have been either with Sheppard or with the entire team.

Definitely worth a second (and third) viewing.

WingedPegasus
October 12th, 2007, 07:42 PM
I think that cat might show up in Teyla's ep--Missing.

Okey doke. Thanks!

Wilson3Girl
October 12th, 2007, 07:45 PM
Will we see the Iron Chef host again? Maybe he and Ronon can have a cook off. :D
Was that him? I spent the entire hour trying to figure out where I'd seen that guy before......
I loved the little bit at the end where Teyla returns Ronon's picture and says that Rodney thought that he should have it back and Ronon says, "I never gave it to him." :)
Jason did a great job.


Wilson3Girl

Ruffles
October 12th, 2007, 07:49 PM
But I oh so enjoyed her whupping Ronon. :D That was too much fun.

Me too!


Ha! I actually watching the first airing of the night for once! :p

I really REALLY liked this episode!!

The thing I liked the best was that Sam actualy "clicked"! In the first two episodes she was rather cringe worthy, but in this one, wow, I'm impressed! HUGE improvement, and I really liked that she went with the team instead of staying on Atantis. Big plus for me in her favor. I may actually come to like (but not Love) her on Atlantis if they continue to write this way for her.

Just overall I enjoyed it! I honestly can't think of anything bad to say about it. And of course, the chuckles from the Carter/Rodney pairing is a plus! Yeah, I was expecting it, but it wasn't "old", it was fun!

Liked the action, liked that they involved Teyla more than the first two, liked the Ronon action, liked the Assuran kicking some wraith butt ;)

I agree with a previous poster, 10/10 for this one! :D I am most impressed!!

Edit: Oh yeah, the only thing that was kinda weird was the Wraith dude, is it just me or did he just look creepy??

Wraith dude was creepy and had a really bad wig.


Do you know I didn't notice. Meh...I rarely notice people's attire unless it's leather (so you know I was all over her black jacket. I only have a copy of the dark-cherry one she has---which I bought years ago). But then I care about leather---:S. ~sigh~ I wear too much leather.

*huggies* Rufs!! xoxoxoxo

*hugs* to you. Good to see you about! I LOVED the new leather coats Ronon and Teyla were sporting at the beginning. If I didn't live down here in the deep south where winter lasts 5 seconds, I get one myself. I thought she looked like she might be showing a bit during that beginning scene in the tavern (although it didn't stop her from trying to whip 3 Satedan butts) so I was looking for it in the sparring scene.


Anybody named 'Kanan' in this ep?

No.


Am I right in stating Satedans cannot be fed off by Wraith, which is why Ronan was turned into a Runner to begin with?

If that is true, big continuity error.

If not, then I misunderstood.

No, the reason Ronon wasn't fed on has never actually be explained (on-screen). My belief is the Wraith recognized his strength and abilities, choosing him to be a Runner (to be fed on shortly thereafter - oops).

justhere1971
October 12th, 2007, 07:49 PM
Okay, some thoughts:
-Will we see the Iron Chef host again? Maybe he and Ronon can have a cook off. :D



Alright I agree w/ 100% of your post -- but :lol: I couldn't for the life of me remember where I'd seen that guy! Thanks for the reminder.

Mattathias2.0
October 12th, 2007, 07:50 PM
No, the reason Ronon wasn't fed on has never actually be explained (on-screen). My belief is the Wraith recognized his strength and abilities, choosing him to be a Runner (to be fed on shortly thereafter - oops).

Ok, I just wanted to clear that up because I thought about that when the other Satedans explained their story.

Thank you.

justhere1971
October 12th, 2007, 07:52 PM
I loved Ronon's hesitation about going w/ the Satedans versus his "old" team. That was a nice touch.

I agree with who ever said that Ronon continues to be the most developed character despite his lack of lines.

ToasterOnFire
October 12th, 2007, 07:53 PM
Oh yeah, the whole ep I was expecting him to take a huge bite out of a pepper or peach or whatever like he does in the Iron Chef intro. :D :D

Ronon's painting reminds me of a bad heavy metal album cover. ;)

vaberella
October 12th, 2007, 07:55 PM
Ronan continues his habit of becoming the most developed character on Atlantis even if he doesn’t get the most lines. Teyla continues to be given the shaft. First she gets beat up by the losers, then she’s the first to get stunned….but I guess it had to be Mckay to be the last standing as neither Teyla or Shep would bail. But it would have been nice to have Shep go down first ala O’Neil in the NOX ep….just to change things up and give Teyla some heroics. She was good in her scenes with Ronan, just she very much seems like a minor supporting character.


I agree with the Ronon comment, since I've been saying that for ages. As for the Teyla comment, I think you're being uncharacteristically unfair. First off on your statements I'd say she wasn't given the shaft. Far from it. First off she was one woman taking on 3 people? How realistic is it for her to take on three---and I mean one who has martial arts skill and put in full display (that was the cat from The Crow TV show, and I think he played Bruce Lee (can't be too sure)), then she's got a woman who has about 5-8 inches on her, and another guy going at her at the same time. She can throw a strong blow no doubt about that---but it's no where near the power that Ronon can dish out and those guys are Ronon's peeps---think of her taking on almost three Ronon's at once. I'm not surprised...I'm surprised she was able to put in the hits that she did get in. So no shaft there.

I don't get the big deal about her being the first to get stunned...it wouldn't work story wise really. Teyla would have to keep shooting and try to drag John's dead weight with one hand while McKay was busy tinkering away---doesn't fit too well so I think the way they did that worked with the storyline and easy conclusion on where the writers wanted to go. At least John got stunned as well.

As for the supporting role...it wasn't her ep. I found that McKay and Shep were also put to supporting role. Since the moments seemed to focus on either Carter or Ronon.



Sheppard was good but gave up on the Weir begging uncharacteristically early for him. I expected more complaining. Not that I am upset with it. I like Carters “give me a plan that could work and I will think about it” and I was happy Shep saw the logic in it. Sort of disappointed no one else brought up Weir…well again except Ronan. That scene with him and Carter was very cool. He reminding me of the first days of his arrival and Carter not flinching (in his presence), yeah she’s dealt with warriors before. I also liked how he didn’t flinch when she subtly threatened him…but then he knew the security issues.
I agree with most of what youi said except for the first part. John again is aware of his limitations even if he's anxious about DW. I also get the feeling that John was mainly testing out the waters and not really begging to go on the mission as soon as possible because he's aware of the loop holes in his plan. Let me try to broaden that statement. When I say "testing out the waters" I mean to say that I think he wanted to garner Carter's intentions on Weir and what her idea would be on going on a rescue mission. Other people, let's say I say Ellis, would probably say out right "No" and it's final. Carter's 'no' was a no, but she also said she was open to any realistic ideas and not adverse to that which worked well with John's hopes. That's all I picked up from the scene, so I didn't see John as giving up too quick. He knew what he was doing in that moment and I felt that was seen throughout the ep.


IMHO the most developed characters on Atlantis are McKay and then Ronan (well and Carter for SG-1 watchers). If they can just give Teyla and Sheppard some development then maybe there will be a S5 of SGA.
I'm putting Ronon ahead of Rodney. McKay is not as developed as one would think. To me a developed character has some level of unpredicatability like all humans. There's something about them that can surprise you and here in lies the added dimension. Rodney doesn't have that dimension. As most posts have it and most people say...McKay was "typical" Mckay. So then he's just a perpetual marionnette giving us the same dance. Ronon is far different from that. We see Ronon thinking outside the box ie, Vengeance; we see Ronon acting quirky ie, Echoes/Sunday; we see Ronon cry, ie Sateda. The man is a wealth of emotion and changes and more than the robot---"shoot'em up" and don't ask questions. He's a defined character.

Well Teyla will get development and so will Shep--there are eps geared specificially for them which I get the impression will totally redefine them. I thought Teyla was very different in this ep than most other of her eps from S1-S3. She was harder, in your face, and spoke a lot more. I would never have expected Teyla to go on the attack just because of what Ronon's bud say. She's a bit more restrained than that. So to me that was unpredicatable and made me wonder a bit more about her. Good stuff overall. John also got some great development as I mentioned. He's definitely toned down the recklessness and is thinking through things, this was definitely seen in the strategy scene---the old John would have jumped at the original plan with not too many questions. Here was definitely a bit more reserved. I hope to see more that throughout the season.

chocdoc
October 12th, 2007, 07:55 PM
First impression: I really liked this. I was laughing out loud at the beginning with Rodney thinking he would get command (even though I knew that was coming) and his face when he found out who really was. The scene with Teal'c was wonderful. As Vabi said *waves at Vabs!* the look on Teyla's face as Ronon reunites with his friends was great. Nice tie-in to Trinity (she's with him when he finds out he's not the only Satedan alive).

Shep stealing Rodney's present still makes me laugh (as does Rodney's reaction) and the scene with Carter is goofy and awkward and perfect. The best part was going from the silliness to the sudden animosity when Ronon shows up. I LOVE that he threw Weir in her face. Way to not just move on. Almost everyone would react just like he did. And good for her to stand up to him.

I also love the little bits between Carter and Sheppard. I have the feeling it may escalate as the season moves on, but again, they don't overlook the loss of Weir and his determination to find her. It has to be killing him that he left someone behind, especially someone that he considered family. But he accepts Carter's decision, recognizing the wisdom behind the caution.

He's also cautious about attacking a Wraith lab. He only relents when he hears that they are trying to undo what Weir gave her life for. The conversation between Sheppard and Ronon is good. I find it interesting that Teyla went to John first with the news instead of waiting for Ronon.

I love that although Ronon had made his decision to leave, as soon as he heard gunfire, he didn't hesitate to run toward his team. It seems his decision wasn't quite as final as he had thought. I'm of two minds about having the Satedans be Wraith worshippers. On one hand, it makes for great Ronon angst and helps explain how some humans could become worshippers. On the other hand, I would have liked to see him actually make the hard choice between the Satedans and the Lantians. I did notice that Tyre walked away although we don't actually see what happened to him. I wonder if he'll be back (if you know - don't tell me. I like surprises.)

McKay again shows signs of becoming a better team player. He doesn't whine about the mission. He accurately fires his P-90. He hides well enough to escape being captured (until the Satedans show up). He keeps his head after being captured.

It was great to see the storyline carried forward. Interesting to find out that the Wraith actually deactivated the Asurans attack programming. Fascinating to watch the replicator walk right through the gunfire and completely ignore the humans. Nice to see Zelenka go off-world without complaint (is he trying to impress the new boss?).

The fight scene with Ronon and the Satedans - wow! I know it's choreographed, but I'm still amazed they can do that without someone getting hurt. I also loved blindfolded Teyla kicking Ronon's a**. You go girl!

Great look on Sheppard and McKay's faces when Ronon calls them his friends and wants to go home. Nice throwback to earlier in the ep when Tyre tells him that he is an ally to the Lantians not a friend.

Rodney stole Ronon's painting! I can just see it hanging on his wall next to the diplomas. Lovely scene with Teyla at the end although personally I would have liked for it to have been either with Sheppard or with the entire team.

Definitely worth a second (and third) viewing.


I agree with all that you said -- you hit the highlights for me!

I thought this was a very strong episode -- good character development between the characters. And yes, the fight scene at the end was really impressive, and I usually don't care about that. Great balance between character development, action, and humor!

Liked that Sam didn't just ease right in--she faced a number of problems right away and had to make decisions and stick to them. And Jason Momoa did a good job in this one. I really like Ronon much more than I did before as a result of this episode.

Can't wait until next week for the next episode!!

AGateFan
October 12th, 2007, 07:56 PM
Was that him? I spent the entire hour trying to figure out where I'd seen that guy before......
I loved the little bit at the end where Teyla returns Ronon's picture and says that Rodney thought that he should have it back and Ronon says, "I never gave it to him." :)
Jason did a great job.


Wilson3Girl
That guys been in a ton of low budget martial arts movies...and I think he was the crow (in the TV series, not the movie).

justhere1971
October 12th, 2007, 07:59 PM
Oh yeah, the whole ep I was expecting him to take a huge bite out of a pepper or peach or whatever like he does in the Iron Chef intro. :D :D

Ronon's painting reminds me of a bad heavy metal album cover. ;)

It was even funnier that Rodney's the one who took it. It looked like a hunting scene, no?

Also, are they literally going "dark" this season? It was so hard to make out the scenes in the ship.

One more thing, I thought those other Satedan's said they couldn't be killed? Did I take that literally again?

vaberella
October 12th, 2007, 08:00 PM
Am I right in stating Satedans cannot be fed off by Wraith, which is why Ronan was turned into a Runner to begin with?

If that is true, big continuity error.

If not, then I misunderstood.

Yeah you misunderstood. As Ruffies said, they never made clear why Ronon was never fed upon. Ruffies may be right in her statement as to Ronon's abilities and strength. I personally think they chose him because he might have that chromosome mentioned way back when in Poisoning the Well.

*waves like a crazed maniac* to RUFFIES!!! :D


Ronon's painting reminds me of a bad heavy metal album cover. ;)

Although I thought it looked like Ronon saw 300 and decided to do a painting on that.

http://blog.eches.net/images/300.jpg
or
http://brightcove.vo.llnwd.net/d2/unsecured/media/136292544/136292544_452347296_13d228a1022e05fe59cadc5a7984eedf20d7a498.jpg

But if I remember correctly Queensryche had an album cover like that (it's a heavy metal band I liked a lot during the 80s..and they were far from bad). Unfortunately I can't find the album cover I'm looking for, but they had one similar to the poster.

idlewild202
October 12th, 2007, 08:21 PM
Wraith dude was creepy and had a really bad wig.
Haha, okay good, I'm not the only one!

You know, I didn't even think about Rachell showing, and thus I didn't even look for it. I didn't even notice she wasn't wearing her normal outfit while sparing! Normally I pick up on those things!!

Agent_Dark
October 12th, 2007, 10:58 PM
oh, prime episode. The openers were good, but this was even better since it was a character ep. It was unfortunate reading JM's blog to hear him say that he was a bit worried about the studio having problems with Reunion since it was a 'slow burn' episode. These type of episodes are usually the best...

anyway, s4 is shaping up to be a hell prime season :D

AGateFan
October 13th, 2007, 02:18 AM
I agree with the Ronon comment, since I've been saying that for ages. As for the Teyla comment, I think you're being uncharacteristically unfair. First off on your statements I'd say she wasn't given the shaft. Far from it. First off she was one woman taking on 3 people? How realistic is it for her to take on three---and I mean one who has martial arts skill and put in full display (that was the cat from The Crow TV show, and I think he played Bruce Lee (can't be too sure)), then she's got a woman who has about 5-8 inches on her, and another guy going at her at the same time. She can throw a strong blow no doubt about that---but it's no where near the power that Ronon can dish out and those guys are Ronon's peeps---think of her taking on almost three Ronon's at once. I'm not surprised...I'm surprised she was able to put in the hits that she did get in. So no shaft there.

I don't get the big deal about her being the first to get stunned...it wouldn't work story wise really. Teyla would have to keep shooting and try to drag John's dead weight with one hand while McKay was busy tinkering away---doesn't fit too well so I think the way they did that worked with the storyline and easy conclusion on where the writers wanted to go. At least John got stunned as well.

As for the supporting role...it wasn't her ep. I found that McKay and Shep were also put to supporting role. Since the moments seemed to focus on either Carter or Ronon.



I agree with most of what youi said except for the first part. John again is aware of his limitations even if he's anxious about DW. I also get the feeling that John was mainly testing out the waters and not really begging to go on the mission as soon as possible because he's aware of the loop holes in his plan. Let me try to broaden that statement. When I say "testing out the waters" I mean to say that I think he wanted to garner Carter's intentions on Weir and what her idea would be on going on a rescue mission. Other people, let's say I say Ellis, would probably say out right "No" and it's final. Carter's 'no' was a no, but she also said she was open to any realistic ideas and not adverse to that which worked well with John's hopes. That's all I picked up from the scene, so I didn't see John as giving up too quick. He knew what he was doing in that moment and I felt that was seen throughout the ep.


I'm putting Ronon ahead of Rodney. McKay is not as developed as one would think. To me a developed character has some level of unpredicatability like all humans. There's something about them that can surprise you and here in lies the added dimension. Rodney doesn't have that dimension. As most posts have it and most people say...McKay was "typical" Mckay. So then he's just a perpetual marionnette giving us the same dance. Ronon is far different from that. We see Ronon thinking outside the box ie, Vengeance; we see Ronon acting quirky ie, Echoes/Sunday; we see Ronon cry, ie Sateda. The man is a wealth of emotion and changes and more than the robot---"shoot'em up" and don't ask questions. He's a defined character.

Well Teyla will get development and so will Shep--there are eps geared specificially for them which I get the impression will totally redefine them. I thought Teyla was very different in this ep than most other of her eps from S1-S3. She was harder, in your face, and spoke a lot more. I would never have expected Teyla to go on the attack just because of what Ronon's bud say. She's a bit more restrained than that. So to me that was unpredicatable and made me wonder a bit more about her. Good stuff overall. John also got some great development as I mentioned. He's definitely toned down the recklessness and is thinking through things, this was definitely seen in the strategy scene---the old John would have jumped at the original plan with not too many questions. Here was definitely a bit more reserved. I hope to see more that throughout the season.
I don’t know. I am not seeing the great improvement everyone else seems to be seeing for Teyla in this ep. Sure she had more to do then in the first two but she still is far, far behind any of the other characters IMHO. It's like we are so desperate for something, anything out of Teyla that we take the smallest grains and try to make a beach out of it. Teyla is supposed to be an uber fighter. Ronan took on those same 4 people and won. Of course he had RAGE on his side, and the lady did stop the guy from pulling the knife (which is ironic since she’s the one that pulled it one on Teyla). BTW the cutting the girls throat was surprising and odd. It worked to show the insanity but it seemed like an out since she was the most sympathetic to Ronan.

You make a good point on Sheppard testing the waters. He just didn’t seem as persistent on this emotional issue as this character has been in the past. But as stated the character has seen some understated growth and is a little more thoughtful and tactical this year. This is a great change in the character that I appreciate and the "testing the waters" would certainly be a very real thing someone would do.

I had also considered putting Ronan ahead of McKay in development department. Ronan is certainly the "deeper" character but we know a LOT about McKay, from his family situation to his past work life. I just assumed he was one of those "non-deep" people that you run into in life. I know people like him and feel like I know him better then Ronan. Ronan is still something of an enigma. He always seems to surprise me and not in a "they don’t know what they want to do with his character" kind of way, more of a "I am a multi-faceted individual" type of way. There are all kinds of people in the world, deep and shallow. Shallow are easier to get a hold handle on. As a friend of mine says "See how people are and expect them to be that way". That works for people like McKay and keeps them from annoying you....it doesn’t work for people like Ronan since you don’t know exactly what to expect based on what you see....other then he will be loyal to his friends.

I am looking forward to more development from these characters especially Teyla and Shep and have a little more hope every week that the season will proceed well. I am still cautious and still don’t feel I can trust TPTB writing but its all on the show runner to make sure all the writers keep the characters in character and so far Joe is doing a good job IMHO.

Linzi
October 13th, 2007, 02:20 AM
Excellent episode. I really enjoyed it.

Loved the beginning with Rodney thinking he was going to get the leadership role, loved Sheppard swiping the discarded fruit and giving it to Carter! I'm still chuckling about that now! :) Loved Rodney's awkward speech to Carter too. I cringed for him!

Ronon was great here. Torn between his family and the family he thought he'd lost. I liked Sheppard's mess hall speech to him. Does anyone think he'd rehearsed that with Teyla beforehand? :lol:

Carter. WOW! I adored her here. She was so good. I love she calls Sheppard 'John'. Don't know why, but I do. Loved all her scenes, liked her going off world to save the team, or help to. Really liked her stance with Ronon. Good for her keeping her cool when he threw Weir in her face.

I was so pleased to hear Sheppard is still trying to get the go ahead to find Weir. I'd have been so disappointed if that scene hadn't been in the episode. It was much needed and would have been totally out of character for Sheppard not to be trying to get the IOA to agree to a rescue mission. The response from the IOA and Carter is quite right though. It is too risky.

I loved the look of the sets, and the fighting scenes. Loved the twist with the wraithworshipper bit. I also loved that Rodney took Ronon's picture. Very funny.

A well written character episode. A couple of Ronon's scenes with the Satedan's dragged for me, but I'm an impatient girl, and I do understand the need for them there.

I agree with everything Ruffles said in her review, so I'm going to shut up for now.

Well done Mr Mallozzi. A job very well done :)

Major_Griff
October 13th, 2007, 02:26 AM
Great ep! I was thinking that they would cop out and the reason for Ronon staying with us would be something like all the Setedans die or they get what they wanted and leave the Lanteans behind, I was pretty shocked that they were Wraith worshippers. When they shot Rodney and the frizz control needing wraith walked out I was like Holy Crap Wraith Worshipers! I liked the tension between Carter and Ronon almost like her having to prove herself to him when they went off world. Great scene with Teal'c! And I loved the fact that they mentioned Lizzy. I was worried they'd pull a Carson/Janet and forget all about her in the next ep. Ever since Runner I have wanted to like Ronon, but JM's acting has been so-so. I noticed him getting better in Adrift and especially Lifeline and he was pretty good in this one too. So yeah good ep 8/10. (Oh I only give tens to my very favorite eps so 8 is very very good from me)

Willow'sCat
October 13th, 2007, 02:45 AM
What an incredibly boring episode. :( Now I know I am no fan of Ronon and Jason needs to learn to stop mumbling but even going into this with low expectations I just came away bored.

Nothing happened. Nothing that I couldn't guess at, heck nothing my 8 year old niece couldn't have guessed at. :cool: Oh yeah I truly believed Ronon would leave... and that his friends wouldn't double cross him...:cool::rolleyes:

Well Weir was replaced finally...:D so it wasn't a total lose but Sheppard crapping on about Weir... *play the violins* she was a bad leader get over it all ready.

3/10 and that is only because David Hewlett managed to say his lines without cracking up... 'cause if it was me I would have been laughing hard at what passed for McKay dialogue in this one, well that is Joe & Paul for ya, no idea.

Come back Martin Gero all is forgiven. :P

justhere1971
October 13th, 2007, 03:44 AM
How boring is it that they felt the need to thrust Sheppard & Carter in to the almost identical argument scene on the balcony ala Rising II with Weir? Nothing original can be done? Shep did step down rather quickly, growth or not; he's argument rang hollow.

I am not a fan of Carter calling Shep, John. She's the ranking officer, and this is her first "day" at the post. Shouldn't she at least follow protocol, since she seems to be intent on following it on everything else? What happened to the soft reassurance from LL that she knows John won't give up looking for Weir? That was a big, we are going to follow IOA directives from now on. Just deal with it.

Teyla still hasn't seen much development. She seems to just sort of hang around. Hope the consecutive episodes do better for her.

I have no rating for this episode.

Poubelle Man
October 13th, 2007, 04:36 AM
I didn't think the Replicator would attack the wraith hand to hand, I thought It would be with somekind of nanite infection or something related to the nanites.

Agent_Dark
October 13th, 2007, 04:41 AM
What happened to the soft reassurance from LL that she knows John won't give up looking for Weir? That was a big, we are going to follow IOA directives from now on. Just deal with it.
Of course, you leave out the part where Atlantis needs to lie low for a while to avoid it being found out again. Right now its hidden from both the Wraith and the Asurans. I don't think the IOA are too keen on Atlantis risking discovery and attack by going on a hasty and emotional rescue mission to the Asuran homeworld. Even if they did manage to rescue Weir, she's way too much of a security risk to bring back to Atlantis.

Klenotka
October 13th, 2007, 04:54 AM
It was good episode. I can forget about Lifeline and terrible lines there.
I expected the worst and was pleasantly suprised. I was worried about the "funny scenes" between Sam and Rodney but it wasn´t so bad.
Sam even didn´t have that "you are an idiot" expression she makes and seemed almost suprised, and confused when Rodney told her that he is seeing someone. She almost seemed distracted or disappointed...I don´t know, I can´t fully describe it ;)
The "I am seeing someone" line was pointless but it was the only black spot in all of this. I mean, Rodney is a grown man and he has to know that Carter isn´t interested in him.
I liked how Ronon came to Carter and said "you are in charge now?" without adoring or respect. He doesn´t know her and it´s certainly nice change to see someone who doubts about her and is against her.
I think she did fit and didn´t in the same time. She made first step but lots of is ahead of her. So yes, I think the change was slow. But I think she didn´t have to call Sheppard "John" :S
I was also worried about the fact that Rodney will act as an ******* about the command but he and Radek had really friendly chat.
I also liked how every single member of the team had something to do and was in right place. Rodney didn´t complain, whine or anything. They were team, covered each other and it was great.

And what is the most suprising. Funny scene connected with Teyla, it´s almost unbelieveable. :D

And one more thing. How Sheppard "stole" the idea of fruit basket from Rodney didn´t even look bad. It was like when two schoolmates are fighting about respect of a new teacher :D I can´t wait to see Rodney make something like this to Sheppard in the future :D
But what was good, and I liked it, was the Rodney´s line: "Son of a *****": I am not sure if we have ever heard it in SG at all in this context. That someone said it when he was angry or mad. It made Rodney and all SGA more human if I can say it so. They are normal people, who swear sometimes, right? And so far, I think I heard only "crap" or "damn" but not this. It´s such my little note, you know...I am analyzing too much :D

kirmit
October 13th, 2007, 04:57 AM
I didn't think the Replicator would attack the wraith hand to hand, I thought It would be with somekind of nanite infection or something related to the nanites.

Hmm that brings up good point, will we see Wraith form replicators? If the Asurans aren't just blowing the wraith up and are assimilating them that could be a possibility for the future.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 13th, 2007, 05:02 AM
How boring is it that they felt the need to thrust Sheppard & Carter in to the almost identical argument scene on the balcony ala Rising II with Weir? Nothing original can be done? Shep did step down rather quickly, growth or not; he's argument rang hollow.
I am not a fan of Carter calling Shep, John. She's the ranking officer, and this is her first "day" at the post. Shouldn't she at least follow protocol, since she seems to be intent on following it on everything else? What happened to the soft reassurance from LL that she knows John won't give up looking for Weir? That was a big, we are going to follow IOA directives from now on. Just deal with it.

Teyla still hasn't seen much development. She seems to just sort of hang around. Hope the consecutive episodes do better for her.

I have no rating for this episode.
I noticed that too. Carter may be taking over as leader of Atlantis, but that doesn't mean she has to take Dr. Weir's lines and argumentative roles too. As she said, she's not Dr. Weir, so why are the writer's trying to fill in every gap that TH left?

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 05:08 AM
Yuna's (that's me) weekly simoul-review:
* It would've been much funnier if the guy wanted to marry Ronon (noes! Slut that all Hawaiians are gay!)
* Random guy: "Don't be a busybody." Teyla: "This is where the people who care live."
* Why are all non-Ronon Satedan survivors rude and stupid?
* Who is this Rodney?
* Hey, look, my least favourite moment in this episode and it's only 04:25 ("She's our new boss.").
* Sam's been to the Pegasus Galaxy twice (as far as we know) and she gets picked over Rodney or John? Yah.
* Ouh! The Satedans know the Imperial System (or whatever the Pounds/Inches/Feet/Yards-system is called). Why would Satedans who have never met the Tau'ri before know what 7 feet is?!
* Did Teal'c always only have grays on one side?
* Why doesn't anyone else see her off?
* Sam only brought one briefcase with her?! What, she's gonna wait 3 weeks before the Daedalus arrives with, oh, a change of clothes?
* Obviously they dialed the gate twice for Sam. Once just for her and once for her stuff. What kind of power-wasting morons are they?! At least have the decency to only dial it once!
* Nice, John. Nice.
* Yes, let's make Rodney seem like more an idiot by making him dense and stupid the first thing we do while Sam moves in.
* Yay, Ronon! Let's intimidate Sam.
* "I'm not Doctor Weir." - Way to rub it in for us who don't like the change. Probably not intentional, but still.
* "Pretty impressive isn't it?" "It's a little overwhelming." - Are they retconning "The Pegasus Project" and "Lifeline"? Sam's been here and seen everything at least twice before.
* John's name as on the shortlist and not Rodney's? Well, we know that he's acerbic and vocal, but he's just as capable as John. And what's with the two only known shortlisted people both being military?
* Yes, Sam. Let's show your hypocrisy. "It's too dangerous!" - As if SG-1 hasn't gone back countless times and risked countless lives to bring back other SG-1 team members in the past! And let's not forget every time Jack's been in need of rescuing. Oh, the crap Sam's pulled! Or even fodder. Like that time when Janet died because they all went back to retrieve one wounded soldier. Here's someone who's meant a great deal to Atlantis, Pegasus and the Stargate program and they're not gonna go back because, "It's too dangerous!"? If certain people are willing to risk their lives, then let them.
* Wow, Teyla's kickassedness keeps reaching new heights. Sparring with a blindfold.
* Hey, character development and nice lines for Teyla! It's about damn time.
* "Crazy-talk". I like that term.
* What is this crazy ****?! "One of the things they're working on in the lab is a way to switch off the Replicator attack code"?! Why would they even know such a code exists? Is it possible the ones who switched off in the frist place were the Wraith?! And how the Hell could the Satedans know this?!
* Oh noes! Indigenous person leaving expedition!
* Nice, Sam. So Ronon's basically either with them or against them. And so is Teyla. "Stay forever - or die!"
* What's with Satedans being violent, arrogant and self-absorbed? Maybe the writers have got it in for the Satedan race.
* About time we saw some Wraith stuff again (Michael and his Merry Band of Thingies don't count).
* How come not a single Wraith had the time to fire off a shot?! It's not like it all happened in Matrix-speed.
* Whoa! The Wraith hit someone!
* Whoa! Super-Wraiths! They got Teyla and John!
* Hey! It's a new actor playing a Wraith!
* It's been pretty obvious for a while now that they're Wraith worshippers (or something). I mean, how else could they possibly have found out that the Wraith were trying to find a way to shut off the Asuran aggression code?
* Yeah, now it's worth going in and recover people!
* So now we know, Sam will actually be going on missions as a soldier as well as being the administrator of Atlantis. So now she's the leader of the expedition, the foremost expert on Ancient-, Gate- and Replicator-tech and a soldier. Wow, that's three (four with Zelenka) veteran characters whose turf she's impeaching on! Well, Teyla could count as well since she's a fighter/soldier. So four/five.
* "I just received word they're on their way?" - Tracking device on Ronon or what? We know the Wraith can't detect cloaked Jumpers.
* Yes, obviously they're gonna send all of their fighters and darts to fight one Jumper while another is standing by cloaked. Way to dumb down the Wraith. Or Sam & Co for coming up with such a stupid plan.
* Hello, darts, it's been a while.
* Why did they not immediately tell Sam that the Satedans betrayed them?!
* Obviously, the shield would fail at some point.
* Why do they even try?! They know it doesn't work.
* And just as I expected, he'd ignore everyone in favour of killing some Wraith.
* So apparently Wraith worshippers have tracking devices installed in them? Why else would the Satedans not have escaped already?
* Hey, look, "Breath of Life"
* Why would they go through all of that trouble just to convert the Satedans instead of just killing them? Are they so smart they planned all along to use t hem against Ronon to bring down Atlantis? O_o
* I hate fights with shaky cameras and lower frame rates. It's obvious they're too lazy to just film the fights in slow-motion and then speed it up or something. The shaky cameras and lower frame rates just make it look cheezy.
* How did the woman get knocked out, anyway? It's like she missed one punch and then flew into a brick wall headfirst by her own inertia or something.
* Did Ronon just say "Huh"?!

Classic
October 13th, 2007, 05:12 AM
I don't normally focus on ship questions/issues, but did anyone notice during the Carter/Rodney scene if that was an 8x10 pic of Jack O'Neill in one of Sam's unpacked boxes?? :samanime51: Maybe a little too subtle?

OobeDoobBenubi
October 13th, 2007, 05:15 AM
Crappy episode Atlantis has already done this. A few good moments & I did like Teal'Cs good bye to Sam & we even got an indeed. Its a shame that the rest of the team was not there. Overall this episode was bleh.

Arlessiar
October 13th, 2007, 05:24 AM
An ep that was alright and not boring but without any surprises. I've never been a big Ronon fan and all this action/fight stuff usually doesn't interest me that much. These "Pegasus natives" stories aren't really my cup of tea. Still, it was an ok ep for me, it was entertaining and I wasn't bored, and I'd say it was well done. It's just not an ep I'd want to watch several times.

Of course Ronon wouldn't leave Atlantis, so no suspense here. The only question that remained was what exactly would happen to make him stay in the end. And it was not the most difficult thing to figure out that it had to do something with his Satedan friends.

Is it just me thinking that or are 90% of the Satedans we've met so far, apart from Ronon, either stupid or morally questionably people?

And what happened to the surviving Satedan Ronon met in "Trinity" (the one who told him about that military guy Ronon shot in the end)? Has he ever seen him again? He most certainly didn't drag that guy to Atlantis with him or considered leaving Atlantis to stay with him.


-So McKay was all giddy about possibly becoming the leader of Atlantis but never once did he mention Weir or have any sort of lingering emotional response to what happened to her. Wow, it really rang false. And hooray for yet another awkward scene between Sam and Rodney! :mckay: Also, didn't DH comment about how McKay was unhappy when Carter came to Atlantis? Because I didn't see that at all. I really dislike this first scene with Rodney being so cheerful and thinking that he might become the next leader! But ok, that might be Rodney's way of thinking, so I could at least accept the scene if only he wouldn't have looked as if he didn't care one bit about Weir! No, I don't want long, tearful dialogues in which the characters discuss the loss of Weir and her fate, but please, can they please show a little bit respect in their actions and reactions? Rodney could at least have looked abashed or sad for a split second so that you can see that Weir's still on his mind, or he could have been mentioning Weir in a short comment before he goes on being all excited, that would have been enough to make this scene believable and let look Rodney (and Radek too) less uncaring.

The scene between Sam and Rodney? Terrible.

And I also didn't see Rodney being unhappy about Sam being on Atlantis apart from him being disappointed that he didn't get the job... (the latter's really some one-dimensional writing... :rolleyes:)
And seriously, somehow I also didn't really expect Rodney McKay of all people to be unhappy about having Sam near him, no matter how much I'd want him to be angry that she's 'replacing' Weir! But let's see how that develops. When she starts to meddle into his affairs as the chief scientist he might get pissed pretty quickly.


McKay again shows signs of becoming a better team player. He doesn't whine about the mission. He accurately fires his P-90. He hides well enough to escape being captured (until the Satedans show up). He keeps his head after being captured. I really liked that about this ep, he didn't act like an idiotic coward this time but more like the McKay we saw in the first season (like in The Defiant One). He doesn't have to become a brave soldier, I surely wouldn't want to see that, he should stay the scientist he is and it's the other's job to protect him if needed. But after all those years in which he went off-world so often, faced live-or-death situations and got trained by Ronon (and probably Shep and Teyla too, who knows), I think we can expect him to at least know the basics of defending himself in a combat situation and how to hit a target when he's shooting (which he was able to in season 1 but magically forgot about in season 2 and 3). He's a genius, so he can also use his brain, like he did in this ep. I've really been fed up with seeing a whining Rodney who's scared out of his mind and doesn't know where to run or what to do or how to shoot when the team is in a dire situation. Again, I don't want Rodney to be a perfect soldier, but I also don't want him to be a brainless dimwit in battle situations.

Btw, when Rodney wakes up in the cell he wants to say that he'd run into Ronon's friends when he'd been trying to escape, but then he changes what he wanted to say and babbles something about a strategic retreat instead of saying "escape" - he didn't want to admit in front of Sheppard that he was scared and wanted to run away. But he shouldn't be afraid to admit that he was scared and wanted to escape. I think it was an understandable and also logic reaction, one that's probably even expected from you in such a situation, so that you can get help. I would have reacted like that, too, and would have tried to run away and escape to get help, because I wouldn't have been able to free my people on my own.


Nice to see Zelenka go off-world without complaint (is he trying to impress the new boss?). I was wondering about that, considering he was so scared in "Duet" and so nervous about the rescue mission in "GUP", but maybe he overcame his fears after he met his nemesis during that off-world mission in "Critical Mass" - the children! :D

One scene I really loved: When the rescue team arrives at the Wraith lab, Ronon not only keeps an eye but also his hand on Zelenka's back. I like it when the tough guys protect the scientists! *g*

I loved Zelenka in this episode, by the way, he's so funny! His facial expression and the way he pointed at Rodney during the "who might become the next leader" discussion just cracked me up! :D


Rodney stole Ronon's painting! I can just see it hanging on his wall next to the diplomas. I'm just hoping that Rodney did that out of unusually sentimental reasons he'd never admit openly, namely that he wants something to remember Ronon when he's gone. I don't see him as someone who intentionally steals other people's belongings just because he likes and wants them, thinking the other surely won't need it anymore anyway. Yes, it might be typical Rodney not to think about other people's feelings that much and yes, his social graces aren't the best, but he's not a thief. He's also too honest for that. Yes, he will twist the truth sometimes to make himself look good, but deep down he's an honest person, I think.

Lovely scene with Teyla at the end although personally I would have liked for it to have been either with Sheppard or with the entire team. Felt the same about the scene. Would have liked to see the whole team helping Ronon to unpack and settle in again, without many words, just helping and talking about team stuff, like funny films they should watch together or when to go for a swim on the pier.


How boring is it that they felt the need to thrust Sheppard & Carter in to the almost identical argument scene on the balcony ala Rising II with Weir? I think it was kinda the point of TPTB to make these two scenes so similar. Two leaders, the same speech, an identical scene (balcony, too great a risk unless you show me a good plan etc.). And to be exact, that's exactly what ticked me off about this scene! It seemed to scream "leader 1 is gone, on to the next, and see, nothing has changed, so don't you worry!". Of course one could also say the similarity of the scene in "Rising" and this one in "Reunion" is a nice sentimentality, that the parallelism is an acknowledgement towards Weir. But for me it only seemed to be there to put Sheppard into his place (you were on the list, but sorry, now we're doing it my way), and it reminded me how much Weir (thanks to the writers) has changed over the years! In the first ep she was mindful of risks, but that went down the drain pretty quickly.

I am not a fan of Carter calling Shep, John. She's the ranking officer, and this is her first "day" at the post. Shouldn't she at least follow protocol, since she seems to be intent on following it on everything else? That irks me too. It's all "we're friends and a good team!", and that in the first ep with her as a leader! Way to shove Carter into the viewer's face, not giving him much choice but to accept the change.
It's too soon. Heck, look how long it took Teyla or RODNEY to call Sheppard by his first name!

Bye, A.

meredithchandler73
October 13th, 2007, 05:36 AM
I noticed that too. Carter may be taking over as leader of Atlantis, but that doesn't mean she has to take Dr. Weir's lines and argumentative roles too. As she said, she's not Dr. Weir, so why are the writer's trying to fill in every gap that TH left?

Well, since John would have to go to the leader regarding any sort of rescue plan, John had to go to Sam with his proposal. And it's her responsibility as leader to let him know he's pretty much talking about a suicide mission, so...no. I don't think of it as being Wei'rs argumentative role. If they had made Woolsey the leader of Atlantis (GOD FORBID!) he would have seen the logic in telling Sheppard that he doesn't have enough intel to pull off Weir's rescue so forget it.

I really enjoyed this episode for many of the same reasons that everyone else has stated.

I didn't think too much about Sam saying John instead of Sheppard. It didn't really bother me while I was watching the episode. Now, O'Neill always called other military folk by their last name - certainly everyone ranked below him. The ones that used first names were military talking with non-military or Sam and Cam (same rank). HOWEVER, Gen. Hammond would use Jack's first name. So, maybe it's her perogative use first names? I think I kinda like her saying John because when she talks to him it feels less like, "Listen to me, you work for me now" and more like "We're working together now."

Also - as leader of Atlantis, it doesn't really make sense to be going off-world, but I *love* having Sam joining missions. (When Jack was promoted I hated thinking of him left behind a desk with the team off-world.) Think: she is one of the most capable people around - someone who could stumble upon Ancient technology and fiddle with it as well as pull out her P-90 and blast away attacking Wraith. I'd want her on any team of mine! And as others have pointed out, there are precedents in scifi for the leader joining missions (such as Picard and Janeway).

Anyway, those were my thoughts.

ToasterOnFire
October 13th, 2007, 05:43 AM
And what's with the two only known shortlisted people both being military?
You know, that's an interesting point. Atlantis has always been civilian-led and Weir had to do her fair share of fighting for control over the military and IOA. And now that command has been switched over to military there were zero comments about it from anyone, not even a "oh, we have to go military now because it's so much more dangerous." No real reasoning for such a big switch outside of sticking Carter into the empty slot.

Lord batchi ball
October 13th, 2007, 06:01 AM
I really liked this episode.

It started off really slow but the last 20 minutes I was on the edge of my seat.

I liked it when the Asuran escaped and walked right past them and went and knocked out some wraith I thought that was great.

All and all a great episode.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 13th, 2007, 06:06 AM
Also - as leader of Atlantis, it doesn't really make sense to be going off-world, but I *love* having Sam joining missions. (When Jack was promoted I hated thinking of him left behind a desk with the team off-world.) Think: she is one of the most capable people around - someone who could stumble upon Ancient technology and fiddle with it as well as pull out her P-90 and blast away attacking Wraith. I'd want her on any team of mine! And as others have pointed out, there are precedents in scifi for the leader joining missions (such as Picard and Janeway).

Anyway, those were my thoughts.

I still don't get the connection bewteen Carter and Ancient technology. The Ancient technology she has ben exposed to in the Milky Way she usually has not been able to master. Could you please explain?

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 06:11 AM
Also - as leader of Atlantis, it doesn't really make sense to be going off-world, but I *love* having Sam joining missions. (When Jack was promoted I hated thinking of him left behind a desk with the team off-world.) Think: she is one of the most capable people around - someone who could stumble upon Ancient technology and fiddle with it as well as pull out her P-90 and blast away attacking Wraith. I'd want her on any team of mine! And as others have pointed out, there are precedents in scifi for the leader joining missions (such as Picard and Janeway).
Leaders of huge military operations/expeditions do not put themselves in harm's way. As leader, Sam shouldn't even go off-world unless the situation calls for it!

Even if Rodney wasn't her equal, she would have no reason to! Because as the leader, she's supposed to stay back on Atlantis and do administrative work and leadery things and most of all: Not put herself on the front line when engaging hostile, etc.

There's a reason why Jack, Hammond, Landry and Elizabeth almost never went off world as leaders. Because it'd be stupid.

So Sam won't be tripping over any Ancient tech or blasting any Wraith ass unless it happens in Atlantis.

tagger
October 13th, 2007, 06:13 AM
Great episode.

Nicely paced.

Liked all the character interactions.

McKay - unrequited lust, hehe , Rodney, Rodney, Rodney. The year is 2007, your name is Rodney McKay, you are in the Pegasus galaxy, if you need any further orientation to REALITY, please let me know. ;)McKay is delusional, but in a charming, rascally way. :)

Ronon, FANTASTIC job. Nice gamut of emotions – loyalty, betrayal, friendship, murder, heartbreak, and re-evaluation of priorities. Perfect. Loved it and Momoa did a great job. This is the kind of relationship and character insight stuff I love.

Carter – welcome to leadership. Wow. Rough first day. Sweet scene with an always supportive Teal'c, then she is on her own.:( No-one to vent to, no sounding boards, no close friends, and some tough leadership calls from the get-go.

2 ships worked as a decoy for the wraith? A little unbelievable, but whatever, I still liked it.

A replicator on the loose? Oh – oh. Problemo.

Overall, very enjoyable, my daughter was cheering out loud for the team running from the wraith, she hasn’t done that in a while!

:):)

belanna30
October 13th, 2007, 06:14 AM
7 out of 10 for the episode:


Really, I enjoyed many things about this episode:

1. Carter's opening discussion and interaciton with the characters and John and Rodney's leading the way for everyone to accept her. I also appreciated that Ronan would challenge her right to be there (although, I didn't think he was right that Elizabeth would have allowed them into the City where Sam wouldn't). Overall, Carter's role in previous episodes was less than lackluster, but in this episode she stepped up in a big way and it was nice to see...

(1 BIG EXCEPTION!!! This was NOT her place to go off world with a gun to rescue Sheppard. That was Lorne's job to do. Rememember O'Neill? Remember Hammond? Remember Dr. Weir? You don't send the leader of the expedition out on a dangerous rescue mission. I agree that she should be getting off world more, but NOT in this type of scenario. That's not her job anymore, even as she said it.... She's NOT on SG-1 anymore.... Think Season 8 with Jack. Sorry!)

2. I love Ronan-period. He was fantastic. The fight scenes, learning more about his people, and his priorities and loyalties. 10 out of 10 to J.M. for a fantastic episode on his part.

3. I don't have any unhappiness at all towards Teyla. I didn't think she did any better or worse than any other episode she's been in. However, I'll admit that I thought the "Stay Strong, Rodney" thing sounded a bit cheesy.

4. Rodney, really I enjoyed his character as much as I always do. I would also object that Carter is the foremost expert on ancient technology. I think that would go to Rodney at this point. Carter definitely has him beat on the Replicators, but I would challenge the ancient knowledge comment. I really did love his reactions to Carter's coming throughout. Although, it would have been nice to see a little remorse about Elizabeth, but I'll admit that I don't think that that is his way.

5. Sheppard--10 out of 10 for what he was given. This wasn't a "him" centered episode, which is fine. He did great for his role and I love him bringing up the "Weir thing isn't over". However, I'm surprised none of you remembered that Sheppard has had this conversation with Weir before in Season 1 when he wanted to go after Sumner and Elizabeth turned him down. Did anyone else notice the huge similarities there? (Unfortunately, I also remember what happened to Sumner! Let's hope this is where the similarities stop!)

Alright, that's my two cents.... Take it or leave it.

justhere1971
October 13th, 2007, 06:20 AM
7 out of 10 for the episode:


Really, I enjoyed many things about this episode:

1. Carter's opening discussion and interaciton with the characters and John and Rodney's leading the way for everyone to accept her. I also appreciated that Ronan would challenge her right to be there (although, I didn't think he was right that Elizabeth would have allowed them into the City where Sam wouldn't). Overall, Carter's role in previous episodes was less than lackluster, but in this episode she stepped up in a big way and it was nice to see...

(1 BIG EXCEPTION!!! This was NOT her place to go off world with a gun to rescue Sheppard. That was Lorne's job to do. Rememember O'Neill? Remember Hammond? Remember Dr. Weir? You don't send the leader of the expedition out on a dangerous rescue mission. I agree that she should be getting off world more, but NOT in this type of scenario. That's not her job anymore, even as she said it.... She's NOT on SG-1 anymore.... Think Season 8 with Jack. Sorry!)

2. I love Ronan-period. He was fantastic. The fight scenes, learning more about his people, and his priorities and loyalties. 10 out of 10 to J.M. for a fantastic episode on his part.

3. I don't have any unhappiness at all towards Teyla. I didn't think she did any better or worse than any other episode she's been in. However, I'll admit that I thought the "Stay Strong, Rodney" thing sounded a bit cheesy.

4. Rodney, really I enjoyed his character as much as I always do. I would also object that Carter is the foremost expert on ancient technology. I think that would go to Rodney at this point. Carter definitely has him beat on the Replicators, but I would challenge the ancient knowledge comment. I really did love his reactions to Carter's coming throughout. Although, it would have been nice to see a little remorse about Elizabeth, but I'll admit that I don't think that that is his way.

5. Sheppard--10 out of 10 for what he was given. This wasn't a "him" centered episode, which is fine. He did great for his role and I love him bringing up the "Weir thing isn't over". However, I'm surprised none of you remembered that Sheppard has had this conversation with Weir before in Season 1 when he wanted to go after Sumner and Elizabeth turned him down. Did anyone else notice the huge similarities there? (Unfortunately, I also remember what happened to Sumner! Let's hope this is where the similarities stop!)

Alright, that's my two cents.... Take it or leave it.

It has been mentioned previously.

Lord batchi ball
October 13th, 2007, 06:21 AM
Leaders of huge military operations/expeditions do not put themselves in harm's way. As leader, Sam shouldn't even go off-world unless the situation calls for it!

Even if Rodney wasn't her equal, she would have no reason to! Because as the leader, she's supposed to stay back on Atlantis and do administrative work and leadery things and most of all: Not put herself on the front line when engaging hostile, etc.

There's a reason why Jack, Hammond, Landry and Elizabeth almost never went off world as leaders. Because it'd be stupid.

So Sam won't be tripping over any Ancient tech or blasting any Wraith ass unless it happens in Atlantis.

Yeah I was thinking why is the leader of Atlantis, the head of the Science team, the head of the military(John), the leader of the Athosions(teyla), and the second in command of the science team(zelanca) all in a sceret Wraith base on a rescue mission or being held captive.

And I also asked questions about when Ronans friends seem to know all about a secret Wraith base. I mean where did they get the intel that would'nt be a Wraith, how many people can escape from the Wraith and live to talk about yet know where everything is.

Just a couple of questions. Still a great episode.

justhere1971
October 13th, 2007, 06:22 AM
Leaders of huge military operations/expeditions do not put themselves in harm's way. As leader, Sam shouldn't even go off-world unless the situation calls for it!

Even if Rodney wasn't her equal, she would have no reason to! Because as the leader, she's supposed to stay back on Atlantis and do administrative work and leadery things and most of all: Not put herself on the front line when engaging hostile, etc.

There's a reason why Jack, Hammond, Landry and Elizabeth almost never went off world as leaders. Because it'd be stupid.

So Sam won't be tripping over any Ancient tech or blasting any Wraith ass unless it happens in Atlantis.

She was in full fight mode too. I know she has the experience, but what good would it do to get another one killed? But we know that's not the point.

Ruffles
October 13th, 2007, 06:27 AM
Yeah you misunderstood. As Ruffies said, they never made clear why Ronon was never fed upon. Ruffies may be right in her statement as to Ronon's abilities and strength. I personally think they chose him because he might have that chromosome mentioned way back when in Poisoning the Well.

*waves like a crazed maniac* to RUFFIES!!! :D



Although I thought it looked like Ronon saw 300 and decided to do a painting on that.

http://blog.eches.net/images/300.jpg
or
http://brightcove.vo.llnwd.net/d2/unsecured/media/136292544/136292544_452347296_13d228a1022e05fe59cadc5a7984eedf20d7a498.jpg

But if I remember correctly Queensryche had an album cover like that (it's a heavy metal band I liked a lot during the 80s..and they were far from bad). Unfortunately I can't find the album cover I'm looking for, but they had one similar to the poster.

You crack me up! I had never considered Ronon actually painting, but I love the idea that he might especially a visual from a movie.


You make a good point on Sheppard testing the waters. He just didn’t seem as persistent on this emotional issue as this character has been in the past. But as stated the character has seen some understated growth and is a little more thoughtful and tactical this year. This is a great change in the character that I appreciate and the "testing the waters" would certainly be a very real thing someone would do.

I love that John asked to go on a mission to retrieve Weir. I love that Carter listened to his argument and gave a well-thought out argument in return for not letting him go.

There's a big difference in the situation here and in Rising, and I think Sheppard realizes it. In Rising, they had no idea who the Wraith were or how badly things could go wrong. They were trying to protect the information about Atlantis and Earth and leaving their people in enemy hands would negate that. And the Wraith would never expect them to come looking for their people.

In Weir's case, they know exactly who the Asurans are and how dangerous they can be. They have no way of stealthily infiltrating the city and no way to find Weir if they do (and who knows how she would react now since the replicators have had time to rewrite her nanite programming). The Asurans already know Atlantis exists and the location of Earth. Sheppard's team getting caught would only result in Atlantis' location being revealed again.

Carter makes the right decision, and John can see the logic in it. He doesn't have to like the fact that the risk is too great, but he is the one that placed Atlantis over Weir in Adrift and Lifeline. It is in character for him to do so again.


The "I am seeing someone" line was pointless but it was the only black spot in all of this. I mean, Rodney is a grown man and he has to know that Carter isn´t interested in him.

I saw this a little differently. I don't think McKay imagines Sam has the hots for him. I think he was trying in his socially inept way to say that he wasn't going to be hitting on her all the time anymore since they were going to be working together. He simply used Katie as a way to say it.


One scene I really loved: When the rescue team arrives at the Wraith lab, Ronon not only keeps an eye but also his hand on Zelenka's back. I like it when the tough guys protect the scientists! *g*

Loved that.


It's too soon. Heck, look how long it took Teyla or RODNEY to call Sheppard by his first name!

But Teyla is much more formal than Sam and Rodney is much more emotionally dysfunctional (and the way they wrote him calling Shep "John" led me to believe he does it all the time and we've just never seen it on screen before). Sam has been acquainted with John for a year or so now. I'm sure in his 6 weeks at the SGC (The Return) that they had to have run into each other. They would have been the same rank then and it would have been natural for them to call each other by their first names (like she and Cam did). She's been promoted since then and it wouldn't be proper for him to call her Sam (on the clock anyway) but as his CO she can certainly continue to call him John. And the "Colonel" "Colonel" bit would get old in a hurry.

Sam is a friendly person and rarely calls anyone (except Rodney) by their last name. She only referred to her superiors by their titles. I think it was meant to show that she and Sheppard have already established a friendly working relationship.

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 06:27 AM
She was in full fight mode too. I know she has the experience, but what good would it do to get another one killed? But we know that's not the point.
Logic has never been the PTB's strong point.

Erised
October 13th, 2007, 06:32 AM
"Rising", Pt II. The Balcony scene with Elizabeth and John - he wants to save everyone who got captured by the wraith.
Weir: "I will not authorise a rescue mission unless I am sure there is at least a remote chance of success."

"Reunion", the Balcony scene with Carter and John - he wants to go rescue Elizabeth.
Carter: "I will not authorise a rescue mission unless I am sure there is at least a remote chance of success."


LOSERS!!!

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 06:36 AM
It's a word-for-word quote?!?!?! My God that's pathetic!

justhere1971
October 13th, 2007, 06:38 AM
It's a word-for-word quote?!?!?! My God that's pathetic!

Well there's another way to look at this. Existing SGA fans might find the similarities or the blatant duplication; but the new fans will not. The line worked well 3 years ago, and they're hoping it would work again.

I am playing devils advocate. ;)

scififreak23
October 13th, 2007, 06:46 AM
this was a great episode! I give it a 8.5/10

teyla in the begining of the episode was awesome.I loved her scene in the bar.

teal'c saying goodbye to sam at the SGC was wonderful and i was so glad that he ended the conversation with indeed. I can't wait to see him in midway.

Sam's speech..why? Weir's speeches sucked enough, why put us through another crappy speech?I've had enough of them to last a lifetime.

sam going off with ronon on the op was fantastic. It's so nice to see the leader of atlantis fighting side by side with her team. One of the reasons why i never like weir was because she stayed behind the desk to much. She didn't understand anything about how the military side of atlantis worked so she shoved all that work over to sheppard.Officially Weir was the leader of atlantis, Unoffically it was Weir and Sheppard leading atlantis. I like the fact that sam is a soldier and a scientist.She can effectively lead and understand both sides which is something that weir couldn't do. Granted that's the only thing like about carter.

the ronon fight scene was really cool. An it was great to see some human wriath interaction without it involving sucking their life out of their body.

Again..zelenka was great as usual i loved his reaction when he thought mckay was going to be the leader of atlantis.

All in all it was a really good episode.

Erised
October 13th, 2007, 06:47 AM
It's a word-for-word quote?!?!?! My God that's pathetic!

Actually she said "You come up with a plan that has even an outside chance of succeeding." Which is basically the same thing. And that whole scene is a cheap copy of the scene in Rising II. Pisses me off.

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 06:51 AM
Actually she said "You come up with a plan that has even an outside chance of succeeding." Which is basically the same thing. And that whole scene is a cheap copy of the scene in Rising II. Pisses me off.
Not to mention hypocritical.

She has no problem mounting a rescue mission (with herself on the front line!) later and she had no problems going to great lengths to mount rescue missions for Jack when he was in similar situations with similar odds!

Heaven
October 13th, 2007, 06:52 AM
omg the wraith set was amazing on this one

Erised
October 13th, 2007, 06:53 AM
Not to mention hypocritical.

She has no problem mounting a rescue mission (with herself on the front line!) later and she had no problems going to great lengths to mount rescue missions for Jack when he was in similar situations with similar odds!

EXACTLY. This just tells me TPTB decided to let amanda take over and not have the successful characters in the episodes.. like in a rescue episode.
Besides, the speech she gave? Pathetic!

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 06:56 AM
They also now have a viable way to mount a rescue mission:
Capture 25 or so Wraith, arm them with anti-Replicator weapons (that will self-destruct after a few hours), throw them into Asuras and have them play Cat & Mouse againt the Asurans while the Tau'ri look for Elizabeth.

Erised
October 13th, 2007, 06:59 AM
They also now have a viable way to mount a rescue mission:
Capture 25 or so Wraith, sedate them, throw them into Asuras and have them play Cat & Mouse againt the Asurans while the Tau'ri look for Elizabeth.
LOL WORD but you know they won't.

They made a whole plan of trying to mess with the wraith... ;)
Attack the ship/whatever is wraith, thinking you have a plan but then realizing you don't, and the guys who came up with the plan didn't turn up to be who they're supposed to be.

We have hmm that episode with the Genii, the episode with Ford, and now this... Anything else we're missing? LOL

Lord batchi ball
October 13th, 2007, 07:01 AM
They also now have a viable way to mount a rescue mission:
Capture 25 or so Wraith, arm them with anti-Replicator weapons (that will self-destruct after a few hours), throw them into Asuras and have them play Cat & Mouse againt the Asurans while the Tau'ri look for Elizabeth.

The wraith would last about 2 minutes.

AGateFan
October 13th, 2007, 07:15 AM
Not to mention hypocritical.

She has no problem mounting a rescue mission (with herself on the front line!) later and she had no problems going to great lengths to mount rescue missions for Jack when he was in similar situations with similar odds!
Well apparently she felt they had "a plan that has even an outside chance of succeeding". In fact, I think her and Ronan were quite confident that the mission could be easily accomplished. Thus I dont see the hypocracy. I do see the stupidity of TV in Carter and Zelinka actually going on the mission. But this sort of thing happens in scifi all the time so it fits in the context of the genra.

As for the balcony scene. One of the things I always thought hurt Weir was her giving into Shep and McKay when her better sense told her it was a bad plan. In this case Carter stayed firm and I think it served the character better. Too bad Weir was not similarly served.

On the other hand, Ruffles makes a great point with the circumstances and knowledge in the situation being different. It also stikes me as odd to risk the lives of a bunch of people to rescue someone who you gave the "kill switch" order on. I mean the people they rescued in Rising they KNEW were on their side. With Weir Shep already had doubts about the new nanite modified Weir. Weir did master the nanites in Lifeline and save the team so you got to try to help her out, but you know the Reps are messing with her and McKay made that oh so easy. So even if you rescue her, you really can't trust her, not for a long while (but again this is scifi so maybe it wouldnt take that long).

Klenotka
October 13th, 2007, 07:23 AM
Sorry for OT but...it´s ZELENKA...I know, I know, but you know...Czech name...:D

Briangate78
October 13th, 2007, 07:26 AM
A great character ep for Ronon. We learn a little more about Ronon's homeworld and people. We also learn more about the Wraith. The Wraith have become a very complex enemy, and it should be very interesting how that plays out later in the season.

Teyla had some nice scenes in this episode. As per Carter they are doing an amazing job by adding her character to Atlantis. It's not too loud or too soft, it's very well balanced.

This season is shaping up to be one of the best seasons. I am still a little sad about Weir's fate, but was overly happy that Weir was not forgotten, and in fact we know that Sheppard is taking Weir's loss hard and will do anything to get her back, which I think will cause some tension between Sheppard and Carter down the road.

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 07:28 AM
The wraith would last about 2 minutes.
With anti-replicator guns? Hey, footsoldiers were able to hit John and Teyla!


Well apparently she felt they had "a plan that has even an outside chance of succeeding". In fact, I think her and Ronan were quite confident that the mission could be easily accomplished. Thus I dont see the hypocracy. I do see the stupidity of TV in Carter and Zelinka actually going on the mission. But this sort of thing happens in scifi all the time so it fits in the context of the genra.
What plan? What was their plan?! "Lure the Wraith away with an uncloaked Puddle Jumper"?! If that science station had, like, 10 darts, do you really think they'd send all 10 after a single PJ? Or that the PJ would survive?

Also, hello, they had no intel on the station! It could be swamped with Wraith for all they knew (they took out Team Sheppard, the Blind Luck-team that almost never gets hit, for crying out loud! + The Three Satedans). So they had absolutely no intel on anything! All they knew was that the thing was supposed to be undermanned.

Undermanned could mean anything. If the station usually has 2000 Wraith, it could have 200 now. And she thought five people, herself, Ronon, two unknown Red-Shirts and Zelenka (unarmed) would be enough?

And did anyone just realize that Zelenka just got some token screen time? Maybe to cover up the fact that he'll get reduced screen time now that Sam's on board? He got a few seconds extra by being there doing what a normal grunt could do (check a device for energy readings)!

No, at least with Asuras, they'd know what they were up against.


As for the balcony scene. One of the things I always thought hurt Weir was her giving into Shep and McKay when her better sense told her it was a bad plan. In this case Carter stayed firm and I think it served the character better. Too bad Weir was not similarly served.
Elizabeth didn't often give into Rodney and John when she sensed the plan was bad. She, however, listened to them and their arguments before turning them down. And sometimes she could be lead to believe that they were right.


On the other hand, Ruffles makes a great point with the circumstances and knowledge in the situation being different. It also stikes me as odd to risk the lives of a bunch of people to rescue someone who you gave the "kill switch" order on. I mean the people they rescued in Rising they KNEW were on their side. With Weir Shep already had doubts about the new nanite modified Weir. Weir did master the nanites in Lifeline and save the team so you got to try to help her out, but you know the Reps are messing with her and McKay made that oh so easy. So even if you rescue her, you really can't trust her, not for a long while (but again this is scifi so maybe it wouldnt take that long).
They have the kill switch. If they rescue her and she turns on them, all they have to do is hit it. However, if she's not a full Asuran, they could scan her "programming" to see if she's been messed with, or they could do it even if she were a full Asuran in order to remove whatever the Asurans have done to her.

And it's not worth risking it? Sam would (and has) risked countless men to bring Jack back. Risking a few lives (of people who want to risk their lives) for Elizabeth is nothing.

Southern Red
October 13th, 2007, 07:28 AM
I have mixed feelings about this episode. On the one hand, it was nice seeing Ronon have something to do, but it just didn't have that snap that made Sateda so interesting.

Pro:

JM did a great job. He's proven to be more than just a fighter but can deliver dialogue with the best of them, and when he gets emotional he is truly wonderful.

John is still looking for Elizabeth, and evidently being a thorn in the IOA's side about it. Loved the fruit bowl trick. Maybe he's hoping to butter Carter up so she'll let him go off on a hopeless rescue mission that succeeds out of sheer luck mount a rescue of Elizabeth.

Teyla has some spirit. Loved her scenes with Ronon. They are just so perfect together.





Con:

Trinity meets The Rising on the way back from Sateda.

Evidently the soft reset they've been talking about means that most of the characters have had a complete personality makeover. Rodney and Zelenka have forgotten Weir ever existed. Teyla's hormones must be kicking in because she goes from caring friend to super cranky. Though it was fun watching her get all feisty. John is on the way to becoming Carter's sidekick. Please tell me he is up to something. I hate to see him reduced to following orders. Ronon was okay here, but how long before he starts to morph into a well-behaved puppy also?

Carter calling Sheppard “John”. Nails on a chalkboard.

The Rodney/Sam scene was cringeworthy. Surely he doesn't really think she was ever interested in him. It just makes him look silly to continue with this idea that he and Sam have a history. I thought he had grown past that, but evidently not. This scene just didn't work on any level.


Why didn't Sheppard tell Carter that he knew the Satedans weren't on the level? That could have made a huge difference if the rescue team ran into them in a dark corridor.

And last but not least, I must address the parallelism in this one. Did John see the irony between his scene with Carter on the balcony and his scene with Ronon in the mess hall? Or will this new non-Mensa Sheppard have to look the word up? Then we have the connection between this last scene and the John/Teyla scene in Sateda. Yes, we get it. They are family. The whole act with Ronon/Teyla and his Satedan friends was a flashback to the same scene in Trinity except this time Ronon didn't kill anyone until almost the end. Are they just throwing the script pages down the gateroom stairs and picking some at random?

TPTB asked us not to judge before we saw the episodes. Okay, I've seen 4 of them now. When will I start changing my mind about the cast changes? The gaping hole left by Elizabeth is turning into the Grand Canyon. IMHO, of course.

expendable_crewman
October 13th, 2007, 07:36 AM
The name thing ... it's weird. The closer I was with my colleagues, the more appropriate it was for them to call me by last name, minus rank.

Your superiors can use rank and last name (very formal), or first name (so-so ... don't ask me why, but it's blah ... it's what civilians do), and last name only, which is informal and denotes comraderie. Subordinates may not use last name only, and they may not use first names. Individuals of equal rank sort it out amongst themselves, depending on who is around and what they are doing.

With us, the only thing more personal than last name only among equals was a callsign or nickname. This will not be true for everyone, nor does it cross all branches of the military, all divisions and units therein, civilian agencies that use rank, the boyscouts, girlscouts, TV producers, and teleplay writers.

I noticed Carter called McKay "Rodney" in this ep. Whatever. And she called Sheppard, "John." Ellis called Sheppard, "John," too. Whatever her leadership style is going to be in Atlantis, she gets to pick it and sink/swim with it. Atlantis has a lot of civilians. Sticking with Lt. Col. Sheppard might put off the scientists, who knows?

IMO, I think her face off with Ronon and their dialogue said volumes more about what her leadership style will be than how she chooses to address a scientist she's worked with before and her 2IC. I was surprised she didn't tell him to step back. But after, I was glad she didn't, because she didn't show intimidated at all. That was good.

Jason Momoa, wow. Well done.

I agree with others who said they never doubted Ronon would stay in Atlantis. I wish I wasn't spoiled, so I could register the twist from a fresh perspective. I was mainly watching to see how Ronon was going to handle the deception. Very entertaining. I was actually p.o.-ed when Teyla, McKay, and Sheppard ran one way, and Ronon ran off with the others. I thought, "Now, who's watching the rear?" You could feel the breeze, like something was missing. It was a nice touch.

We got some words from Teyla about her people, which makes me wonder how she felt about what Ronon went through.

What's up with using the gift of life to torture humans into submitting to the worship cult thing? I thought it was reserved for the most *devout* worshipers and brothers. This Wraith was doing his own thing, and long before the Asurans got their battle orders. I enjoy seeing splinter groups doing their own thing. I prefer Wraith groups as (somewhat) unique, sort of like two human communities, each from a different planet.

Now the Wraith (as in more than one) know McKay (and by extension, Atlantis) can re-write Asuran base code ...

I hope this figures into future eps. Wouldn't his ability to re-write the base code make McKay the most important life form (from the Wraith's perspective) in the PG, lol?

I kept wondering what the Asuran was going to do when he got free, and then I saw. Bodes well for interesting times in the Pegasus, going forward.

Briangate78
October 13th, 2007, 07:39 AM
I have to say Mckay sorta ticked me off in this episode. He is all happy because he thinks he will be in charge of SGA, where as Sheppard did not care at all or even thought about it. He was only concerned about finding Elizabeth and made it known to Carter that they all have not given up on her. Ronon even had words with Carter and in a way was expecting Carter to say yes, so Carter threw in the "I'm not Dr. Weir"

Mckay had some good moments last season, and I hope he can go back to that caring person he was when Carson died or when he was about to die in "Tao of Rodney".

Erised
October 13th, 2007, 07:41 AM
Southern Red, very well said! :D

FallenAngelII, I agree! But don't worry. I'm sure people hated that balcony scene in Rising but now they somehow love that scene in Reunion. Can't be sure what the reactions were though... The Rising thread is a little long to dig in. ;)
But you just wait until she has to make some major decisions about the Wraith. Like I heard there will be an alliance with the wraith? What again? I don't think it worked out well for the team last time and it certainly pissed some of the fans off. Now those fans will love it.

kymeric
October 13th, 2007, 07:46 AM
Well there's another way to look at this. Existing SGA fans might find the similarities or the blatant duplication; but the new fans will not. The line worked well 3 years ago, and they're hoping it would work again.

I am playing devils advocate. ;)

I think its a deliberate parallel. Why else would it be there? They FORGOT the lines they wrote rewrote thru writers meetings a dozen times and then directed and edited? The original commenter is just being sullen about Weir. The scene worked, and was nice.

Erised
October 13th, 2007, 07:47 AM
Well I never said it was forgotten. And I don't think it worked because as Fallen Angel pointed out, she is being hypocritical.

justhere1971
October 13th, 2007, 07:49 AM
Southern Red, very well said! :D

FallenAngelII, I agree! But don't worry. I'm sure people hated that balcony scene in Rising but now they somehow love that scene in Reunion. Can't be sure what the reactions were though... The Rising thread is a little long to dig in. ;)
But you just wait until she has to make some major decisions about the Wraith. Like I heard there will be an alliance with the wraith? What again? I don't think it worked out well for the team last time and it certainly pissed some of the fans off. Now those fans will love it.

Oh goodness I forgot about that bit. Didn't Weir get called on that the last time? I bet we won't see that happening again. And SR - beautiful post.

justhere1971
October 13th, 2007, 07:50 AM
Well I never said it was forgotten. And I don't think it worked because as Fallen Angel pointed out, she is being hypocritical.

Does SGA havea show bible? Where they actually keep track of these sorts of things? Sometimes I get the feeling they get tired of writing an episode and start pulling things off different shows, including their own.

Erised
October 13th, 2007, 07:55 AM
justhere1971, yep she did. I think they questioned her leadership skills... And we saw a LOT of angry posts about how Weir can't lead. Now I bet we won't see any of that stuff from those who are for this change.

Indeed like SR pointed out, this episode was Sateda and Rising, though I can't remember what Trinity was about so I can't compare that.. ;) Next week's episode is a cheap copy of Cold Lazarus. and I just can't wait to see what episode they copied next.

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 07:58 AM
I have to say Mckay sorta ticked me off in this episode. He is all happy because he thinks he will be in charge of SGA, where as Sheppard did not care at all or even thought about it. He was only concerned about finding Elizabeth and made it known to Carter that they all have not given up on her. Ronon even had words with Carter and in a way was expecting Carter to say yes, so Carter threw in the "I'm not Dr. Weir"

Mckay had some good moments last season, and I hope he can go back to that caring person he was when Carson died or when he was about to die in "Tao of Rodney".
Just because he we didn't see him go up against Sam with a "I want to mount a rescue mission!"-stance does not mean he doesn't care. We never saw Teyla express such a wish. Does that mean Teyla doesn't care?

John doesn't want the position because he knows the downs. Rodney, however, does, despite knowing the downs. They're just different people. At least with Rodney as leader, the rescue mission would be a given.


Regarding the future Alliance with the Wraith:
What's so hypocritical about that is that the spoilers speak of an alliance with Wraith which sounds like one they make on their own accord! The Saint Carter-lovers will defend her decision to make the alliance to their dying breath!

Meanwhile, Elizabeth was forced into making hers! What the idiots (because they were idiots!) failed to comprehend with "Allies" is that they had no choice. Their choices were:
* Make an "alliance" with the Hive and give them the gas (which couldn't possibly be used against humans) to help them take out enemy Hives
* Let the Hive alert all the other Hives to Atlantis' continued survival and face a good 60 Hive Ships coming down on them

Yeah... what great choices. And while she made said "alliance", she still had everyone on guard. I mean, Rodney was subtly sabotaging their systems while fixing the broken ones!

It wasn't an alliance. It was a bunch of people black-mailed into doing something!

But the Saint Carter-fans will probably forget all about it and defend her through thick and thin.

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 08:00 AM
What a great ep! From start to finish it was pure class.

What I loved about this eppy.

Ronon and his backstory, i've always enjoyed the Satedan story arc for him, and this took it to another level for me. Jason did a great job throughout the ep, and for me it felt very team based even though it was centered on Ronon. The angst, the tension, the betrayal. I really enjoyed how the team were trying to help him find a place that he could call home, that was very endearing... and yep, I did snuffle a few times.

*snort* I really can't imagine Rodney running Atlantis, and I have a feeling Zelenka feels the same! :D I'm glad Shep and Carter had that talk about command. I never wanted Shep to be commander to be honest, I prefer him and the team out in the field getting into trouble. And it was nice to hear he didn't want it either. :lol:

Nice lil tidbit for the SJ Shippers to. :D

The fight scenes were excellently (that's my new word btw) choreographed, so my hat goes off to Bambam, Rachel and Jason and all those involved. The only strange bit on the fight scene was the initial one with Teyla, did they supe it up to make her faster than neo? :lol:

Some great character interactions between Shep and Ronon, and Ronon and Teyla, Sam and Teal'c. But what I loved the most was the scene between Ronon and Sam! I adored the intensity in the that, and the throw back to Weir and how Sam and Weir are very different. Loved that Ronon threw the 'Weir would have trusted me.' Back in her face. Great scene, and it's nice that their building up of trust is going to take time, because for me it's very realistic.

Sam for me in this was as i'd known her in SG1, and she fit right in there. Quite a contrast from my thoughts of her in DG, and maybe that's because I needed to see her taking over and finding her feet first. Plus, it may have been Amanda feeling nervous in DG, i'm not sure. For me though I think she's going to make a really good addition. I didn't feel as if she took anything away from the core cast, and I like that everyone has made her feel welcome.. I've not seen her interacting with Teyla yet, so can't comment, but I love that she and Ronon are testing the waters.

I had to giggle at Rodney's 'lust' with Sam, and his attempting to cover up the awkward moment. And for those concerned over the name issue, she called him Rodney several times, not McKay. :D

I also had to laugh at Shep trying to get one over on Rodney with the fruit basket, and the pineapples. :lol: The scene in the cafeteria with Shep felt honest and real, and you could tell Shep didn't want him to go. *sniff*

As for the activation code... ah so it was the Wraith that deactivated it... interesting.

:lol: @ Rodney stealing Ronon's painting... I wonder if he painted that himself or if Lorne did it for him, or Lorne's been giving Ronon painting lessons? :D

Nice to see Teyla getting some really good stuff in this, and it was great that we got to see her internal struggles again with moving to Atlantis, and how she feels about being there and not with her own people. I hope this is the start of Teyla's arc. :D

Overall, and i'm sure there's a tonne of things i've missed. I loved every minute of it and my hat goes off to Mr M, he really did a great job with this!

And last but not least... Shep whump! Woohooooo. I love unexpected whump. *does her happy dance*

So in short, yes, I do short on occasions. :P Great character moments, loevly team bonding, lots of sniffly moments with heartfelt emotions and a fab storyline. I wonder how this will affect Ronon's feelings towards his friends and what sort of an impact this will have on him and the team and his learning to trust people?

From me 10/10

Briangate78
October 13th, 2007, 08:05 AM
Just because he we didn't see him go up against Sam with a "I want to mount a rescue mission!"-stance does not mean he doesn't care. We never saw Teyla express such a wish. Does that mean Teyla doesn't care?

John doesn't want the position because he knows the downs. Rodney, however, does, despite knowing the downs. They're just different people. At least with Rodney as leader, the rescue mission would be a given.



Never said he did not care, it just seemed a little cold that he was so quick to take over as leader. Sheppard had the well I did not even think about it attitude, meaning his mind is elsewhere.

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 08:17 AM
Just because he we didn't see him go up against Sam with a "I want to mount a rescue mission!"-stance does not mean he doesn't care. We never saw Teyla express such a wish. Does that mean Teyla doesn't care?

John doesn't want the position because he knows the downs. Rodney, however, does, despite knowing the downs. They're just different people. At least with Rodney as leader, the rescue mission would be a given.

Exactly. Shep doesn't want it, and to be honest I was a bit surprised that Rodney had given it a lot of thought. The thing is with Rodney being in command, given the situation in the PG he's not a good choice, he has no strategic military expertise, and while yes he has saved the city umpteen times over, the position in the Peg requires someone with military training, from my perspective. Do you really think Rodney would be able to send a team into hostile territory knowing that they may not make it back? he hasn't really had to make those sorts of choices yet. When/if he does, Rodney under those sorts of circumstances thinks not with his head, but with his emotions, and he can't always be objective. (See Adrift and the Weir situation). So i'm not sure if Rodney could make those hard choices.

But I agree with you about Teyla in that she does care, and that Shep wouldn't want the command positions.



Regarding the future Alliance with the Wraith:
What's so hypocritical about that is that the spoilers speak of an alliance with Wraith which sounds like one they make on their own accord! The Saint Carter-lovers will defend her decision to make the alliance to their dying breath!

Meanwhile, Elizabeth was forced into making hers! What the idiots (because they were idiots!) failed to comprehend with "Allies" is that they had no choice. Their choices were:
* Make an "alliance" with the Hive and give them the gas (which couldn't possibly be used against humans) to help them take out enemy Hives
* Let the Hive alert all the other Hives to Atlantis' continued survival and face a good 60 Hive Ships coming down on them

Yeah... what great choices. And while she made said "alliance", she still had everyone on guard. I mean, Rodney was subtly sabotaging their systems while fixing the broken ones!

It wasn't an alliance. It was a bunch of people black-mailed into doing something!

But the Saint Carter-fans will probably forget all about it and defend her through thick and thin.

We don't know if Carter is the one to make that decision though do we? How do we know she's not forced into the same position that Weir was? Given the little bits of info out there, it's not that clear. So you might want to jump off the anti-carter bandwagon for just a little while until we see what happens and how it's done. Though I concede it's your perogotive to see things how you want to see them...

As a Carter fan, who says i'll defend her to the end? I am perfectly able to see things objectively. I understand some people can't be objective in their views about favourite characters, but i'm not one of them. :D

Shutting up ow.

Lord batchi ball
October 13th, 2007, 08:18 AM
I have to say Mckay sorta ticked me off in this episode. He is all happy because he thinks he will be in charge of SGA, where as Sheppard did not care at all or even thought about it. He was only concerned about finding Elizabeth and made it known to Carter that they all have not given up on her. Ronon even had words with Carter and in a way was expecting Carter to say yes, so Carter threw in the "I'm not Dr. Weir"

Mckay had some good moments last season, and I hope he can go back to that caring person he was when Carson died or when he was about to die in "Tao of Rodney".

I liked Mckay in this episode. It was quite funny.

Strix varia
October 13th, 2007, 08:26 AM
I thought the episode was predictable, but I enjoyed it anyway. It had a nice pace and a good balance between character interaction and action. I particularly liked the scene with Teal'c and Sam. I also liked the fact that Teyla had some good lines, and I enjoyed the focus on Ronon.

I agree that it didn't make sense for Sam to go on the rescue mission as commander of Atlantis. But it's happened before on both SG-1 and Atlantis (Shepp was in command in Adrift, and he kept putting himself in dangerous positions, too; it would have made more sense to send someone else with Zelenka for the spacewalk, for example...). But the writers will always use characters/actors with whom the audience will identify before plugging in someone unknown. Viewers are going to be more emotionally attached to the story if Sam is on the mission as opposed to some unknown marine. Lorne might have been a better choice in both Adrift and Reunion, but in any case, believability gets sacrificed in favor of familiarity (and perhaps budget issues).

I don't see it becoming a common occurrence because I don't see Shepp habitually getting his team captured. In this case, somebody had to go with Ronon to make the rescue, but it would get old fast if that scenario repeated itself often.

I'm looking forward to next week's ep.

Wilson3Girl
October 13th, 2007, 08:35 AM
:teyla:I love that she said "stay strong Rodney" -I found something extremely endearing about that line.

I liked Teyla saying that too. I think you could tell that she was very worried for Rodney---not necessarily because she thought he would give up any secrets, but also because she was truly worried about his welfare.
As someone else said, Rodney is not a soldier like the rest of the team. He's first and foremost a scientist. Obviously John, Ronon and Teyla have helped to train him a bit, but his instincts are not those of a soldier and I thought it was very realistic for him to try and escape when the Wraith captured John and Teyla. I also liked how he didn't become hysterical when the Wraith took him from the holding cell. He was scared, but he went without incident. If they hadn't stunned John, I don't think they would've gotten Rodney out of that cell without a fight from Shep........which would've ended up with Shep being stunned anyway. Oh well, still, exciting stuff.

Wilson3Girl

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 08:41 AM
Never said he did not care, it just seemed a little cold that he was so quick to take over as leader. Sheppard had the well I did not even think about it attitude, meaning his mind is elsewhere.
Cold? They needed a leader. The city can't survive without a leader, there'd be anarchy and confusion. It's not like he went straight from Asuras to the IOA to demand the position. The fact that he wants it and John doesn't doesn't make him any less of a person.


Exactly. Shep doesn't want it, and to be honest I was a bit surprised that Rodney had given it a lot of thought.
A lot of thought? He read the description of the new leader and assumed it was he. Obviously that constitutes "a lot of thought".


The thing is with Rodney being in command, given the situation in the PG he's not a good choice, he has no strategic military expertise, and while yes he has saved the city umpteen times over, the position in the Peg requires someone with military training, from my perspective.
Yes, because obviously having a military commander means nothing. Why even have John there if the expedition leader has to be military as well? Do you think Rodney would be incapable of recognizing bad strategies from good ones given by John?


Do you really think Rodney would be able to send a team into hostile territory knowing that they may not make it back? he hasn't really had to make those sorts of choices yet. When/if he does, Rodney under those sorts of circumstances thinks not with his head, but with his emotions, and he can't always be objective. (See Adrift and the Weir situation). So i'm not sure if Rodney could make those hard choices.
He can be objective. What people fail to grasp with "Adrift" is that Rodney had disabled the nanites' ability to contact other nanites and to take over Elizabeth. The only people whining about it are the ones saying "But he could not be 100% sure!", but you never can.

Rodney can send people into hostile territory. After all, he goes into hostile territory all the time.


We don't know if Carter is the one to make that decision though do we? How do we know she's not forced into the same position that Weir was? Given the little bits of info out there, it's not that clear. So you might want to jump off the anti-carter bandwagon for just a little while until we see what happens and how it's done. Though I concede it's your perogotive to see things how you want to see them...
You're already defending Sam. Meanwhile, tons of fans (a lot of them Saint Carter fans who will undoubtedly defend Sam this time around) berated Elizabeth (and John and Rodney) and demand her head for "Allies", despite the fact that it wasn't their choice.


As a Carter fan, who says i'll defend her to the end? I am perfectly able to see things objectively. I understand some people can't be objective in their views about favourite characters, but i'm not one of them. :D
We said Saint Carter fans. Not the generic Carter Fans. I'm a fan of Rodney's and John's but I often criticize John.

Strix varia
October 13th, 2007, 08:42 AM
Regarding the future Alliance with the Wraith:
What's so hypocritical about that is that the spoilers speak of an alliance with Wraith which sounds like one they make on their own accord! The Saint Carter-lovers will defend her decision to make the alliance to their dying breath!

Meanwhile, Elizabeth was forced into making hers! What the idiots (because they were idiots!) failed to comprehend with "Allies" is that they had no choice. Their choices were:
* Make an "alliance" with the Hive and give them the gas (which couldn't possibly be used against humans) to help them take out enemy Hives
* Let the Hive alert all the other Hives to Atlantis' continued survival and face a good 60 Hive Ships coming down on them

Yeah... what great choices. And while she made said "alliance", she still had everyone on guard. I mean, Rodney was subtly sabotaging their systems while fixing the broken ones!

It wasn't an alliance. It was a bunch of people black-mailed into doing something!

But the Saint Carter-fans will probably forget all about it and defend her through thick and thin.

Yeah, you know, Carter is never referred to as a saint. And really, I don't see any Carter fans referring to her as a saint, either. For myself, I'd prefer you to use "Carter, the National Treasure," so when you call us hypocritical, the dig you use will at least be approaching canon. Thanks!

Wilson3Girl
October 13th, 2007, 08:45 AM
Shep doesn't want it, and to be honest I was a bit surprised that Rodney had given it a lot of thought.

I didn't perceive it as him giving it a lot of thought. Rodney hears that they are going to promote the "utmost expert" and believes that they're talking about him. =) I think all it would take is Zelenka or John saying, "Rodney, do you have any idea blah blah blah..." and he'd say, "Yeah, forget it." The whole thing seemed out of character anyway. No word about Weir.....just a strange scene. :S


Wilson3Girl

Leliana McKay
October 13th, 2007, 08:52 AM
I'm glad that some people liked this episode and some people didn't. It was a difficult episode because they brought in Carter and Joe Mallozzi said it was a slower episode.

I for one was a bit disappointed by some parts in this episode, but in overall it was still great.

First, well I love Sam, Teal'c also, but the goodbye scene was a bit overdone. I mean this is Atlantis not SG1 and the sad tears should be left in a corner. It's not like someone died or she will never see Earth again (ok maybe). Sam is a strong character and I felt she was taking her departure very bad. Anyhow, I still love Sam, just not what I expected from her.

McKay so happy about the rumour, well his interpretation of the rumour was sweet. Him as a leader? Well no, it wouldn't work but the sheer hapiness when he told Zelenka made me very happy! I like Rodney better when he is happy than grumpy.
Then the "they couldn't have picked a better person" line from Rodney has he thought he was the new leader, and Sam's "Thank you Rodney" really crushed my heart. Rodney's confusion and then understanding to Sheppard's "Yeah she is our new boss" was a great job. Thanks David!!
I really felt so sorry for Rodney but hey, who are we kidding, this is Rodney! Not a very diplomatic boss!

Sam's speech and arrival was average. Rodney's fruit basket (which I thought was a very sweet and good idea) made me laugh but stupid Sheppard (who I wanted to strangle for saying to Rodney he should have brought flowers) had to ruin it. I mean Rodney doing something nice is... well ... rare, so John was kinda mean. I thought they were good friend, so this was no a very friendly gesture. Especially when John stole the basket fruit and gave it to Sam. Rodney was pissed, and I like a pissed Rodney too. But still, it was old McKay and not the new McKay we have had since Tao or Sunday.

The "I'm seeing someone" line, I was really looking for, since it has been in all Amanda, David and Joe Mallozzi interviews. However, it came out as a joke and embarassed Rodney. I felt back in SG1. Please let Rodney grow!!

Ronon was great, well it WAS his episode after all. I didn't like his Satedan friends from the beginning but the plot was good.

I thought it difficult to see Sam as the leader, since I watch all the sg1 seasons and kept waiting for Elizabeth to somehow come back. I think it will take time for me to get used to the new leader. She is so different and her phrasing orders just seemed odd.
I'm however glad that she stays strong and determined. Saying "No" to Ronon first, then Sheppard ( about rescuing Elizabeth without a good plan) was well done. Like some of you I didn't like her calling him John.

Ronon and the choice of leaving Atlantis was very touching. Jason was great during the entire episode. From the meeting his friends, the tatoo (funny scene), the speech with Carter in his room, to the Wraith laboratory scenes. I loved how he just ran back to the Atlantis team when he heard the gun shoots.

I agree with the people who say that Carter should not have left Atlantis. Yes she is military but she is in charge. She should send people and not go to the front line and get herself killed.

A scene I loved was when the wraiths took Rodney from the cell. Teyla looked so worried and asked him "Be strong Rodney" to which he answered "I'll try". I think there's a great friendship going on since Tao and hopefully we will see more.

Rodney and the replicator reprogramming. I felt like it was a : its been done before scene.

And what an ending!!
Ronon finding out his satedan friends betrayed him and were working for the wraith was amazing. The flashbacks of the wraith feeding and giving back their lives to his friends creeped me out. But the best was the fight scene. He actually killed one of the three himself.
Best line of the episode Sheppard "where are your friends?" and Ronon's answer "Right here" sweet!!
I love team friendship episodes!


A 8/10 for Reunion.

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 09:03 AM
Hmmm. First impressions. Let's get the bad out of the way first. Most of it is actually just details....

Cons:

*I agree with those who said Zelenka using a scanner is a little weird. Maybe it's not a LSD, but...it looks like an LSD, so it seems a little odd. And he's remarkably calm walking into a Wraith lab considering the last time we saw him off-world (Duet) he was about to jump out of his skin. Although we did see him going to the "Mr. Mom" planet, so evidently he's had quite a bit of off-world experience since then.

*Was anyone else bugged by the Wraith's hair? Wow that was a bad wig. Usually it's not so bad, but this one was so obviously a wig that it was sparkling. :S

*Speaking of hair, Carter's hair really bugged me in this episode. I'm not a fan of it long, I'll be honest, but in the other episodes this season, it's at least been neat. This was...not so much.

*I didn't care for her calling Sheppard John. It's not a big deal, but I'd prefer they not be so buddy-buddy. It seems a little unprofessional.

*And now for my big, major, grip with the episode-and that was the opening scene with Rodney. OK. I love Rodney. He's probably my favorite character, although Shep is a pretty close second. But.....I hated this scene. With a deep deep hatred. Normally this would be classic Rodney, and not a problem. But under the circumstances, I felt like it was almost grotesquely inappropriate. They've just lost Elizabeth, someone who Rodney was very close to, and respected a great deal. And Rodney carries some of the responsibility for what's happened to her. One of my major gripes with Lifeline was that we never got any sort of a reaction from Rodney losing Elizabeth, other than his shocked look in the jumper. But Lifeline was so packed that I was willing to let it go if they addressed it in the next episode. But here, not only is Rodney NOT mourning Elizabeth, he's practically vibrating in excitement about being chosen to replace her. Bad bad character continuity. They threw away the chance for some depth from Rodney in favor of trying to add some laughs. Well, I wasn't laughing. :( And yes, I know we don't know how much time has passed. But....I'm sorry. The way Lifeline went....I needed more than that. Hopefully sometime later we'll get some reaction from Rodney about Elizabeth, and I'll be able to forgive this scene. Right now, not so much.

The pros:

Honestly, the rest of the episode I liked. Starting out with:

*Teyla and Ronon going to look for the Satedans. Somehow I feel like we've been here before. :) The whole Teyla looking for a husband thing was funny, and wonderfully acted by both Jason and Rachel. I loved Teyla's scene in the bar, and the fight.

*Sam and Teal'c goodbye scene(I'm possibly slightly a closet Sam/Teal'c shipper, sorry Caladria :D). Although I was a little disappointed-I had been under the impression from vague spoilers that we would see her being ordered to go to Atlantis, and her not necessarily being happy about it. This almost made it sound like she was given the option of refusing. I'll have to watch that scene again. Anyway.

*The scene in the gateroom with them greeting her was also well done. John stealing Rodney's basket was classic John & Rodney warfare. Great touch. EDIT: After reading other comments, I have to agree, however, that there should have been a salute, although I didn't notice it when I watched the episode. But now that I'm thinking about it...it should have been there. Are they trying to downplay Sam being military I wonder?

*The Sam/Rodney scene in Carter's quarters was awkward, but not as bad as I'd feared - I was afraid of a more public smackdown. I'm glad they didn't go that route. And am I the only one that thinks that a possible interpretation of Rodney's "unrequited lust" line is him speaking of himself and recognizing that he needs to clear the air about that if they're going to work together? Because I'm just having a hard time believing that Rodney is self-deluded enough to deny that he has had lustful feelings for Carter-in fact, he's admitted it. In the past he's always claimed that she returned those feelings but was just hiding it. The term "unrequited" seemed to me to be a recognition of reality. It's just that the way he stumbled over himself Sam ended up misinterpreting him. But I'm probably the only person who thinks that-that's ok. :D

*The scene with Ronon and Carter - I liked that Ronon got in her face, and I liked that she didn't give in.

*The balcony scene was a rather blatant callback to Rising, and I thought I would have more of an issue with it after reading spoilers, but...it was handled well. And I didn't feel like John was out of character - I thought he was actually rather IN-character, trying to sweet-talk her into letting him go look for Elizabeth. His attitude visibly changed when she said no, but him not putting up more of a protest is actually rather in line with what we've seen from John IMO. John's not an in-your-face rebel like O'Neill was - in fact, the only time I can remember seeing him directly get in the face of a superior officer was in Sateda, to Caldwell. And Caldwell isn't in his chain of command. No, John is much more passive-aggressive. He'll back down on the face of it, but if he feels strongly enough about it, he'll just go ahead and do it anyway when you're not looking. Like when he staged the rescue attempt in Return. He didn't fight Landry all that much about it-he just went behind his back.

*Teyla and Ronon's fight-and their discussion. This was a great scene for Teyla.

*John and Ronon's discussion at the table...also good...

*Going into the Wraith lab. Ronan being torn between the two teams. John and Teyla getting captured, and Rodney having the sense to hide. :D Good for you Rodney, but how in the world DID you get in there anyway?

*Ronon coming back for reinforcements, and Carter giving them to him. And yes, philosophically I have a little issue with Carter going off world with the team, but, logic aside, I didn't mind how it was handled. It seemed by the little scene in the jumper that Carter going off-world this time was clearly intended as a bonding-thing between Ronon and Carter. And...yeah, maybe it's a little fast, but I thought it worked. I guess maybe I'm so used to seeing her on a gateteam that it doesn't feel that out of place, although it's true that as a leader, she should have stayed behind. But according to AT, she only goes offworld three time this year, and one of those is Trio, so I didn't mind it being used this time.

*Oh, and I liked that they were smart enough to use two jumpers-one as a decoy. Was that Lorne's voice in the other jumper? :) I'll imagine it was.

*Rodney being taken to work on the Replicator, and his dismay when he discovered that they had one captured. It almost seems like Rodney's more afraid of the Replicators than the Wraith at this point.

*Ronon's horror at finding out his friends are wraith worshippers. And yeah, using the Wraith gift of life to break them seems strange after Common Ground, but I had an idea that this was all staged by the Wraith to get Rodney. It's probably not a normal usage, but the Wraith needed to get to Rodney, and they (presumably) know Ronon is with the Atlantians now. So they broke Ronon's friends and used them to lure the Atlantians in.

*I liked that Ronon didn't kill his last friend, but I wonder if there'll be consequences from leaving him alive. I notice that he didn't tell anyone that. And saying "they're right here."

*And I did like the last scene with Ronon and Teyla.

My rating...7/10 - losing points for the beginning scene with Rodney.

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 09:08 AM
Cold? They needed a leader. The city can't survive without a leader, there'd be anarchy and confusion. It's not like he went straight from Asuras to the IOA to demand the position. The fact that he wants it and John doesn't doesn't make him any less of a person.

A lot of thought? He read the description of the new leader and assumed it was he. Obviously that constitutes "a lot of thought".

Can you honestly see Rodney giving it 30 seconds thought. He's probably been thinking about it for a while. I know I would in his position. It's natural. What he did/didn't read isn't known to the audience, but if you note since Siege II, I think it was, he's always felt as if a Science leader should play a bigger part in the leadership... and Letters from Pegaus comes to mind to. So it's not (for me anyway) something that comes from a whim, or just reading the description of whose become the leader. McKay and Carter's science backgrounds are very similar, so it's natural for him to think it was him that was chosen. So, yes, a lot of thought.




Yes, because obviously having a military commander means nothing. Why even have John there if the expedition leader has to be military as well? Do you think Rodney would be incapable of recognizing bad strategies from good ones given by John?


He can be objective. What people fail to grasp with "Adrift" is that Rodney had disabled the nanites' ability to contact other nanites and to take over Elizabeth. The only people whining about it are the ones saying "But he could not be 100% sure!", but you never can.


I didn't say the leader had to be purely military, I said that given the situation it's understandable and logical that they'd want someone who had experience in those fields that could bridge the gap between science and military. Rodney can fire a P90, but can he plan a military offensive if required? No. It's not his area of expertise, but Carter as I said above can bridge the gap. I really don't think McKay would be comfortable ordering a strategice offensive/defencive if he was the leader. Sometimes he can be obective, but when it comes to his friends, like Weir he struggled. He didn't want Weir's death on his conscionce knowing full well he could have prevented it. He couldn't see the bigger picture with Weir, and i'm not bashing him for it, she was his friend. Some people can't make those hard choices, and it's not a slight on him if he can't.




Rodney can send people into hostile territory. After all, he goes into hostile territory all the time.

name me one ep where he's done that? He goes into hostile territory, but he's ever SENT anyone into hostile territory, that's the difference, and it's a biggie.



You're already defending Sam. Meanwhile, tons of fans (a lot of them Saint Carter fans who will undoubtedly defend Sam this time around) berated Elizabeth (and John and Rodney) and demand her head for "Allies", despite the fact that it wasn't their choice.


We said Saint Carter fans. Not the generic Carter Fans. I'm a fan of Rodney's and John's but I often criticize John.

How am I defending Sam? Because I thought she fitted in well here? Well, if that's defending her, then yes I am. However, if you note in my DG post, I wasn't so 'defensive' ergo I can be objective. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion regarding the other characters, i'm saying that if you dish it out, you need to bear in mind that you may have to take it, if people disagree.

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 09:16 AM
Yeah, you know, Carter is never referred to as a saint. And really, I don't see any Carter fans referring to her as a saint, either. For myself, I'd prefer you to use "Carter, the National Treasure," so when you call us hypocritical, the dig you use will at least be approaching canon. Thanks!
To my understanding, "Saint Carter" is a quasi-derogatory term us anti-Carters (I only became an anti-Carterian recently) invented to use for the character of Sam Carter, who can't ever do anything wrong. Or if she does, it's never anything big. 10 years on Stargate and she's got an almost perfect record.

She's the perfect little girl who does everything right and is always right. When I say "Saint Carter"-fans, I mean the fans who are a fan of her and view her as perfect.

FoolishPleasure
October 13th, 2007, 09:19 AM
Overall I liked the episode for the most part, but I love Ronon, and Ronon and Teyla scenes always work well. When Jason gets a good script to work with, he takes over the screen. More Ronon time from the writers, please!

I did like the talk between Sheppard and Carter regarding Weir, but with everything Carter has been through with O'Neill - going off on impossible missions and disobeying orders, she should be the LAST person to be fretting over a dangerous mission to rescue a team member. It seemed very out of character for her.

Otherwise:

I kept expecting The Chairman to break out today's mystery ingredient.

Carter still isn't fitting in for me. Why was she on this mission with her guns? The base commander and second-in-command (Sheppard) should NEVER be on life threatening missions together.

Biggest problem?

When Carter came through the gate, her subordinate, John Sheppard, did not salute her when she took command of Atlantis. Since when does a full-bird Colonel take command of a base and NO ONE salutes them??? Carter then starts referring to Shep as "John" almost immediately. We have seen no previous history between these two and even if they were personal friends, one commands the other, and first names from day one is a big NO-NO! These guys are in the Air Force, yes? Or does protocol go out the window when one goes off world? That just irritated the heck outta me.

Overall, I give this episode a B+ - Ronon was great, and I liked Teyla here. Always good to see Zelenka too.

AGateFan
October 13th, 2007, 09:21 AM
To my understanding, "Saint Carter" is a quasi-derogatory term us anti-Carters (I only became an anti-Carterian recently) invented to use for the characters of Sam Carter, who can bever do anything wrong. Or if she does, it's never anything big. 10 years on Stargate and she's got an almost perfect record.

She's the perfect little girl who does everything right and is always right. When I say "Saint Carter"-fans, I mean the fans who are a fan of her and view her as perfect.
So its a quasi-derogatory way to demean other fans? Nice.

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 09:22 AM
Can you honestly see Rodney giving it 30 seconds thought. He's probably been thinking about it for a while. I know I would in his position. It's natural. What he did/didn't read isn't known to the audience, but if you note since Siege II, I think it was, he's always felt as if a Science leader should play a bigger part in the leadership... and Letters from Pegaus comes to mind to. So it's not (for me anyway) something that comes from a whim, or just reading the description of whose become the leader. McKay and Carter's science backgrounds are very similar, so it's natural for him to think it was him that was chosen. So, yes, a lot of thought.
Yes, but does that make him less sympathetic to Elizabeth? It's not like he was ever plotting overthrowing her rule.


I didn't say the leader had to be purely military, I said that given the situation it's understandable and logical that they'd want someone who had experience in those fields that could bridge the gap between science and military. Rodney can fire a P90, but can he plan a military offensive if required? No. It's not his area of expertise, but Carter as I said above can bridge the gap. I really don't think McKay would be comfortable ordering a strategice offensive/defencive if he was the leader. Sometimes he can be obective, but when it comes to his friends, like Weir he struggled. He didn't want Weir's death on his conscionce knowing full well he could have prevented it. He couldn't see the bigger picture with Weir, and i'm not bashing him for it, she was his friend. Some people can't make those hard choices, and it's not a slight on him if he can't.
Which is why Elizabeth was the perfect choice. She was neither of those things. She was the inbetween who looked at things from both perspective objectively.

The leader does not need to be military or have military insight. That's what they have military leaders for. The leader just needs to evaluate the opinion of the military leader and then go with their gut instinct.


name me one ep where he's done that? He goes into hostile territory, but he's ever SENT anyone into hostile territory, that's the difference, and it's a biggie.
Name one episode where Sam has done it ('til now).


How am I defending Sam? Because I thought she fitted in well here? Well, if that's defending her, then yes I am. However, if you note in my DG post, I wasn't so 'defensive' ergo I can be objective. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion regarding the other characters, i'm saying that if you dish it out, you need to bear in mind that you may have to take it, if people disagree.
I said that you're already defending sam for the stuff that'll happen according to the spoilers. Which is OK, I guess. As long as you weren't among the ones who blamed the expedition for what happened in "Allies". Because then you'd be one of those hypocrites I hate.

Meg-Ann
October 13th, 2007, 10:06 AM
I enjoyed this episode...Some nice character moments, and Carter seemed to work well with everyone. Missed the first ten minutes though, because my Tivo decided not to record it for some reason. Agh!


*Was anyone else bugged by the Wraith's hair? Wow that was a bad wig. Usually it's not so bad, but this one was so obviously a wig that it was sparkling.

I was. Very much so in fact. It was almost as bad as the painted pineapple.

LoneStar1836
October 13th, 2007, 10:09 AM
-Will we see the Iron Chef host again? Maybe he and Ronon can have a cook off. :DLOL! :D I knew that had to be him. It finally dawned on me who he was about halfway through the ep., though my brother didn't believe me when I told him who that was.



I don't normally focus on ship questions/issues, but did anyone notice during the Carter/Rodney scene if that was an 8x10 pic of Jack O'Neill in one of Sam's unpacked boxes?? :samanime51: Maybe a little too subtle?Or not subtle enough seeing as how I noticed it upon second viewing. :P I'm not too keen on S/J ship and had to go *ugh* when I saw that pic.




When it was announced that AT was moving over to SGA, I remained neutral about her addition to the cast, deciding to wait and see how it went. So far I'm liking her addition to the show. While Weir was never a favorite character, I didn't completely dislike the character, but I'm not exactly missing her either now that she is gone. On SG-1, Carter was also a neutral character for me. Liked the character well enough but then when it came to seasons 7 and especially 8, I didn't particularly like some of the writing for her. I saw season 8 as almost a complete waste for the character since she was supposed to be the leader of SG-1, but the writers did a poor job of portraying that...as in practically ignoring that fact. So unlike season 8, I'm hoping that on SGA, Carter gets the chance to exhibit some strong leadership skills and qualities this season and do some actual leading. I think the character can be a good addition to the show if the writers cooperate and do a decent job of writing for her. As to this episode, since Carter is trained military with loads of off-world experience, I can see her going off-world and participating on certain military missions more than Weir did. Did she really need to go on this one? Probably not, but it was AT's introduction to the show as new leader so obviously they are going to give her character more face time which meant her going on the rescue mission.

Anyway.... Decent episode. Better than I thought it would be, but not exactly a compelling episode in terms of plot. It was too predictable, but the character interactions where still good enough to make it enjoyable. Next week's episode looks interesting. So far I'm liking season 4 more than disliking it.:)

Gate gal
October 13th, 2007, 10:10 AM
Well, since John would have to go to the leader regarding any sort of rescue plan, John had to go to Sam with his proposal. And it's her responsibility as leader to let him know he's pretty much talking about a suicide mission, so...no. I don't think of it as being Wei'rs argumentative role. If they had made Woolsey the leader of Atlantis (GOD FORBID!) he would have seen the logic in telling Sheppard that he doesn't have enough intel to pull off Weir's rescue so forget it.

I really enjoyed this episode for many of the same reasons that everyone else has stated.

I didn't think too much about Sam saying John instead of Sheppard. It didn't really bother me while I was watching the episode. Now, O'Neill always called other military folk by their last name - certainly everyone ranked below him. The ones that used first names were military talking with non-military or Sam and Cam (same rank). HOWEVER, Gen. Hammond would use Jack's first name. So, maybe it's her perogative use first names? I think I kinda like her saying John because when she talks to him it feels less like, "Listen to me, you work for me now" and more like "We're working together now."

Also - as leader of Atlantis, it doesn't really make sense to be going off-world, but I *love* having Sam joining missions. (When Jack was promoted I hated thinking of him left behind a desk with the team off-world.) Think: she is one of the most capable people around - someone who could stumble upon Ancient technology and fiddle with it as well as pull out her P-90 and blast away attacking Wraith. I'd want her on any team of mine! And as others have pointed out, there are precedents in scifi for the leader joining missions (such as Picard and Janeway).

Anyway, those were my thoughts.
I am so glad you mentioned the General Hammond connection. I really felt like Sam's leadership style in this episode was a nod to him. As for her going offworld, her premier team was in trouble. She did the right thing. I remember Hammond and Jack (and even Landry) when the situation called for it. I doubt we'll see Black ops Sam very often, but it felt right here. I also liked that she was all for John rescuing Elizabeth if there was a chance of success. She doesn't want to leave anyone behind, but she won't risk lives without a real plan. That's just good leadership skills and, again, a nod to General Hammond's style of leadership.

I loved Teyla's bar fight scene. I thought she held her own pretty well considering it was three on one. I also really enjoyed all of the Teyla/Ronan scenes, and I think this episode actually got into why Teyla was in Atlantis better than any other episode. She's said before that she could do more for her people from Atlantis than any where else, but in this episode we saw how hard it was for her to be seperated from her people. A good leader does what is best for her people even if it means personal sacrifice (think Elizabeth).

Rodney made me laugh again. I like him best when he's making me laugh. I loved the fruit/flowers angle, the awkward moment with Sam, and the way he tried to stall the wraith. This is the Rodney I like best.

John's loyalty to Elizabeth was just right. He's thinking. He'll find a way to mount a rescue mission. I loved the John/Rodney moments and the John/Ronan moments. Classic buddy moments, classic Stargate.

Honestly, this is the first Ronan heavy episode that I really enjoyed. They are usually not my favorites. I love Ronan, but his episodes tend to be more violent. I have to send the kids out of the room, and war breaks out at my house. This one was character driven and fabulous, but it had just enough fight to make it wonderfully entertaining.

10/10 Best episode of the season. I can't wait until next week.

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 10:11 AM
Hmmm. First impressions. Let's get the bad out of the way first. Most of it is actually just details....

Cons:


*Was anyone else bugged by the Wraith's hair? Wow that was a bad wig. Usually it's not so bad, but this one was so obviously a wig that it was sparkling. :S

:lol: I noticed that to. it was very 70's hehehe. I was half expecting some glittery eyeshadow. :P




*And now for my big, major, grip with the episode-and that was the opening scene with Rodney. OK. I love Rodney. He's probably my favorite character, although Shep is a pretty close second. But.....I hated this scene. With a deep deep hatred. Normally this would be classic Rodney, and not a problem. But under the circumstances, I felt like it was almost grotesquely inappropriate. They've just lost Elizabeth, someone who Rodney was very close to, and respected a great deal. And Rodney carries some of the responsibility for what's happened to her. One of my major gripes with Lifeline was that we never got any sort of a reaction from Rodney losing Elizabeth, other than his shocked look in the jumper. But Lifeline was so packed that I was willing to let it go if they addressed it in the next episode. But here, not only is Rodney NOT mourning Elizabeth, he's practically vibrating in excitement about being chosen to replace her. Bad bad character continuity. They threw away the chance for some depth from Rodney in favor of trying to add some laughs. Well, I wasn't laughing. :( And yes, I know we don't know how much time has passed. But....I'm sorry. The way Lifeline went....I needed more than that. Hopefully sometime later we'll get some reaction from Rodney about Elizabeth, and I'll be able to forgive this scene. Right now, not so much.


I was surprised in Adrift at that bit to, to be honest. I know where you're coming from, but from my point of view we don't know how long it's been since she left. So, while I don't think they've gotten over her not being there. Rodney is very much a pragmatist, so I just see it as him being him, he doesn't show his feelings in public that often. But he did seem rather exhauberant... maybe he was just fed up with Shep leading the team, :lol: so he was grateful for anyone including himself. :P

Okay, i'm done rambling on that. I know what you mean though. He doesn't seem the same person that wrote the book for her. But in the words of Rodney McKay.

Spoilers for DG
"I'm pretty screwed up!"

*runs and hides*
Great post hon.


Yes, but does that make him less sympathetic to Elizabeth? It's not like he was ever plotting overthrowing her rule.


Which is why Elizabeth was the perfect choice. She was neither of those things. She was the inbetween who looked at things from both perspective objectively.

Who said he'd been plotting to overthrow her? I said he'd given it a lot of thought, I didn't say anything about him plotting mutiny. :lol: Although that could make a great ep. ;)

The situation is different now, and my only point was, I didn't feel that McKay was qualified to lead Atlantis at the moment. if circumstances change and everything's hunky dory, then i'm sure he'd do well, but Rodney is not a people person. People piss him off, until they got to know him and vice versa. He needs to work on his diplomacy skills a bit more. My point was at this time, with the Wraith and the Asurans, they needed a balance between a tactical specialist/diplomat one that could assist in both areas. Weir (as much as I liked her) was against the proliferation of certain weapons, and wouldn't authorise a first strike when it was deemed necessary, because it went against what she believed in. However given the situation now, Sam will do that if necessary. If you have a leader who cannot for one reason or another do what is necessary to protect the city, then they will and have found someone to do that.



The leader does not need to be military or have military insight. That's what they have military leaders for. The leader just needs to evaluate the opinion of the military leader and then go with their gut instinct.


Name one episode where Sam has done it ('til now).


I beg to differ, Military training is essential at the moment given the state of play in the PG. How can you go on 'gut instinct' if you haven't had that experience? Your 'gut feeling' is your body and brains way of using past experience and knowledge as well as being aware of feelings involving the enemy to help you in a situation. If you have no military training and background, how can you use your 'gut' to your advantage? Diplomacy was Weir's strength and she used her 'gut' frequently in the department. Carter is a soldier, therefore she uses her military training/science training to back her.

One ep where she's had to make hard decisions? How about when she's led the team in S8? Or leaving Cassie and putting her in the elevator in S2? But that's not the subject of this thread is it? It's not a pissing match between Carter/Weir and Rodney, besides after Rodney got over the shock he was fine with it, shame the same can't be said for us debating this wonderful point.



I said that you're already defending sam for the stuff that'll happen according to the spoilers. Which is OK, I guess. As long as you weren't among the ones who blamed the expedition for what happened in "Allies". Because then you'd be one of those hypocrites I hate.

Actually I said I'm not prepared to do the blame game until i'd seen the ep. if I disagree with her, then i'm perfectly capable of saying so, likewise if I agree with her i'll say something.

So as long as i'm not 'among the ones' you're happy to let this drop? Glad to know my opinion is good by you, i'll sleep well tonight. Thanks for that. I'd hate for this to turn into a pissing match (to quote Shep) :D

starwars9771
October 13th, 2007, 10:11 AM
I don't normally focus on ship questions/issues, but did anyone notice during the Carter/Rodney scene if that was an 8x10 pic of Jack O'Neill in one of Sam's unpacked boxes?? :samanime51: Maybe a little too subtle?

Hello all!!

Finally out here this afternoon. Reading through pages and it took till page 3 to find someone who saw the 8 X 10 of Jack!!! Enjoyed last nights episode. Can't wait to see Christopher Judge in Midway!! Curious as to how the rest of the season will go. This will be good!!! Have a great weekend!

Jen

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 10:12 AM
Not to infect this thread, but here are the facts about that picture in Sam's luggage:
* Said picture is a screen capture fro "Singularity" from season 1.
* The picture is 10 years old and Jack isn't even looking into the camera.
* Sam brought it along.

My theory is that Stalker-Sam took it with a stealth camera hidden in her hair.

Integrabyte
October 13th, 2007, 10:26 AM
I noticed that to. it was very 70's hehehe. I was half expecting some glittery eyeshadow. :P

I did not even pay attention to that Wraith. Sam and Ronon took all my attention. Sam was great and the scene with Teal'c and "domestic ..." was very good. Brought back good memories from Sg1.



I was surprised in Adrift at that bit to, to be honest. I know where you're coming from, but from my point of view we don't know how long it's been since she left. So, while I don't think they've gotten over her not being there. Rodney is very much a pragmatist, so I just see it as him being him, he doesn't show his feelings in public that often. But he did seem rather exhauberant... maybe he was just fed up with Shep leading the team, :lol: so he was grateful for anyone including himself. :P

Okay, i'm done rambling on that. I know what you mean though. He doesn't seem the same person that wrote the book for her. But in the words of Rodney McKay.


Not to offend Weir fans but in my opinion S4 needs to continue the story and not to mourn Weir.



Actually I said I'm not prepared to do the blame game until i'd seen the ep. if I disagree with her, then i'm perfectly capable of saying so, likewise if I agree with her i'll say something.

So as long as i'm not 'among the ones' you're happy to let this drop? Glad to know my opinion is good by you, i'll sleep well tonight. Thanks for that. I'd hate for this to turn into a pissing match (to quote Shep) :D



Peggy, Sam will give you a good impression. She is both fragile and strong at the same time:)

Ruined_puzzle
October 13th, 2007, 10:30 AM
Not to infect that pictures, but here are the facts:
* Said picture is a screen capture fro "Singularity" from season 1.
* The picture is 10 years old and Jack isn't even looking into the camera.
* Sam brought it along.

My theory is that Stalker-Sam took it with a stealth camera hidden in her hair.

LMAO.

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 10:45 AM
I am so glad you mentioned the General Hammond connection. I really felt like Sam's leadership style in this episode was a nod to him. As for her going offworld, her premier team was in trouble. She did the right thing. I remember Hammond and Jack (and even Landry) when the situation called for it. I doubt we'll see Black ops Sam very often, but it felt right here. I also liked that she was all for John rescuing Elizabeth if there was a chance of success. She doesn't want to leave anyone behind, but she won't risk lives without a real plan. That's just good leadership skills and, again, a nod to General Hammond's style of leadership.

Great observations, and you're right, she even said as much to Sheppard. And with Ronon there acting as a 'guide' if you will, he was able to give them the advantage of layout and numbers to give her a heads up. I really like that she's taken on some of Hammond's traits, and it's nice to see her in command to be honest and see how she handles things is different to Weir, which is an interesting tac to take.



I loved Teyla's bar fight scene. I thought she held her own pretty well considering it was three on one. I also really enjoyed all of the Teyla/Ronan scenes, and I think this episode actually got into why Teyla was in Atlantis better than any other episode. She's said before that she could do more for her people from Atlantis than any where else, but in this episode we saw how hard it was for her to be seperated from her people. A good leader does what is best for her people even if it means personal sacrifice (think Elizabeth).


That was a great scene for Teyla, we'd heard her say previously the reason's why she was in Atlantis instead of with her people. But it was nice to see the writers exploring her leadership skills and her feelings again. Something i'm looking forward to quite about this season is to see more of Teyla and the skills we saw early on, and here's hoping this is the start of things to come.


Not to infect that pictures, but here are the facts:
* Said picture is a screen capture fro "Singularity" from season 1.
* The picture is 10 years old and Jack isn't even looking into the camera.
* Sam brought it along.

My theory is that Stalker-Sam took it with a stealth camera hidden in her hair.

And the point of this was?



I did not even pay attention to that Wraith. Sam and Ronon took all my attention. Sam was great and the scene with Teal'c and "domestic ..." was very good. Brought back good memories from Sg1.

Not to offend Weir fans but in my opinion S4 needs to continue the story and not to mourn Weir.

http://bestsmileys.com/waving/5.gif Hiya hon. I think one of the things that some people (including me) were worried about was if there was going to be any friction. Well that scene for me anyway was a clever way to create that without it coming off as forced. I liked the bonding at the end with the two in the jumper. But I think it'll be a while before he gets to know her and trust her. Even with Weir he was guarded for quite a while, and I don't expect this to be any different. I like that he brought up about Weir and how she wouldn't have told him no, and would have trusted him implicitely, and he's infering that she doesn't. Great scene. :D

I agree with you on Weir. She's not dead and dead and missing are two completely different things.



Peggy, Sam will give you a good impression. She is both fragile and strong at the same time:)

I really liked Sam in this (compared to DG) she seemed like her 'normal self' :lol: I like that Sam is not afraid to say that she's frightened of leaving the safety of her home and family and that she had doubts about thing. The scene with teal'c had me reaching for my tissues. :o I'll see how the rest of the season pans out with how I feel about Sam being on Atlantis, but after seeing her 'sworn in'... (and just where were the personell and salutes)? I feel better than I did last week. :D

One thing I forgot to mention was the nice touch with the tradtional Hawaiian tattoing. :D I wonder if Jason had it done that way in RL or if he went and did it as it was shown in the ep? Great bit of research for that. It really suited the scene. :D

Cautious Explorer
October 13th, 2007, 10:47 AM
Finally, Ronon and Teyla get to be part of the show. I enjoyed the team being all together again.

I would have liked to have seen a little more interaction between Ronon and John, and I think a final scene between the two of them, or the whole team, was sorely missing.

I'm still having trouble getting used to Carter. I'm not crazy about the leader going on a mission right off the bat, but I could live with that if she just didn't suck the excitement out of the action scenes. Maybe it's AT's attempt at showing that Carter is a seasoned veteran and nothing fazes her, but to me it just comes off as Carter being very unconcerned, almost bored with everything. Not a way to contribute to the suspense.

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 10:49 AM
And the point of this was?
As response to the many (Ok, so I've seen, like 3, but still) posts in this thread that states that the picture is proof of a S/J-relationship (or an indication of such).

It's more like it's an indication of Sam's stalker tendencies.

I've also been informed by Saberhagen83 that the angles do not match up as Sam was sitting down and as such, could not have taken that shot.

She obviously rigged a camera in a tree somewhere beforehand (or while Jack was distracted), because why else would she have that picture (no camera was in sight)? She's even sneakier than I originally thought.

AGateFan
October 13th, 2007, 10:55 AM
As response to the many (Ok, so I've seen, like 3, but still) posts in this thread that states that the picture is proof of a S/J-relationship (or an indication of such).

It's more like it's an indication of Sam's stalker tendencies.

I've also been informed by Saberhagen83 that the angles do not match up as Sam was sitting down and as such, could not have taken that shot.

She obviously rigged a camera in a tree somewhere beforehand (or while Jack was distracted), because why else would she have that picture (no camera was in sight)? She's even sneakier than I originally thought.
Was it McKay or Beckett who was the stalker who took the pic of both of them walking in a field. I cant remember if that was on Mckays desk or Becketts desk being cleaned off by Mckay (in THAT episode)... I just know I said to myself "Hey I have that picture...hey wait who took that picture since that was a scene from that one ep".....

Again nothing here is unusual in the Stargate universe. Nothing new, people have in ep pics in their private space on the show all the time. Commanders go off on away missions all the time. Rodney is unthoughtful all the time (so that scene actually seemed in character to me). The only thing I ask with an SGA episode this season is that they remain true to SGA, and so far that is what I am seeing.

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 11:00 AM
Was it McKay or Beckett who was the stalker who took the pic of both of them walking in a field. I cant remember if that was on Mckays desk or Becketts desk being cleaned off by Mckay (in THAT episode)... I just know I said to myself "Hey I have that picture...hey wait who took that picture since that was a scene from that one ep".....
Name the episode this picture is seen in and what episode it's from and I'll look into it.


Again nothing here is unusual in the Stargate universe. Nothing new, people have in ep pics in their private space on the show all the time. Commanders go off on away missions all the time. Rodney is unthoughtful all the time (so that scene actually seemed in character to me). The only thing I ask with an SGA episode this season is that they remain true to SGA, and so far that is what I am seeing.
I haven't noticed such a trend (about the pictures). It was only as a response to the people going on about it being proof of S/J:ness.

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 11:01 AM
Finally, Ronon and Teyla get to be part of the show. I enjoyed the team being all together again.

I would have liked to have seen a little more interaction between Ronon and John, and I think a final scene between the two of them, or the whole team, was sorely missing.

I'm still having trouble getting used to Carter. I'm not crazy about the leader going on a mission right off the bat, but I could live with that if she just didn't suck the excitement out of the action scenes. Maybe it's AT's attempt at showing that Carter is a seasoned veteran and nothing fazes her, but to me it just comes off as Carter being very unconcerned, almost bored with everything. Not a way to contribute to the suspense.

I agree, i'd have liked to have seen that to with Ronon and Shep given that they're good friends. I would have liked to have seen McKay trying awkwardly to give the painting back to Ronon (hoodwinked by Shep) :lol: That would have been a nice scene, or something along those lines.

I'll have to watch that scene again with them making their entrance. I have no idea why Zelenka was there though. :lol:


As response to the many (Ok, so I've seen, like 3, but still) posts in this thread that states that the picture is proof of a S/J-relationship (or an indication of such).

It's more like it's an indication of Sam's stalker tendencies.

I've also been informed by Saberhagen83 that the angles do not match up as Sam was sitting down and as such, could not have taken that shot.

She obviously rigged a camera in a tree somewhere beforehand (or while Jack was distracted), because why else would she have that picture (no camera was in sight)? She's even sneakier than I originally thought.

:lol: What does it matter if people think it's proof. If it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy, where's the harm?

Sam's stalker tendancies... ok.... So given that she couldn't have taken that shot, how could she be perceived as a stalker for having it? :S Your conspiracy theories regarding this amuses the hell out of me, and that is from someone who has been an SJ shipper for many years. :D Maybe someone thought that Jack looked good in that pic (and he does). Or maybe it was a reminder of a good day out with the team in the park? When you're thousands of miles away isn't it nice to take with you a bit of home? Besides that may not be the only Jack picture she has. ;) Wedding photo's are normall carefully packed, so maybe she has them tucked away carefully? :P

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 11:07 AM
Sam's stalker tendancies... ok.... So given that she couldn't have taken that shot, how could she be perceived as a stalker for having it? :S Your conspiracy theories regarding this amuses the hell out of me, and that is from someone who has been an SJ shipper for many years. :D Maybe someone thought that Jack looked good in that pic (and he does). Or maybe it was a reminder of a good day out with the team in the park? When you're thousands of miles away isn't it nice to take with you a bit of home? Besides that may not be the only Jack picture she has. ;) Wedding photo's are normall carefully packed, so maybe she has them tucked away carefully? :P
When I say she couldn't have taken it, I mean physically, like, by having the camera in her hands or hiding it on her person.

If she's not a stalker, how does she have that picture? It's not like some random guy passed them on the street, took the photo and then gave it to her (that she tracked such a guy down). So the most logical conclusion would be that she rigged a camera in a tree and triggered it remotely.

Linzi
October 13th, 2007, 11:09 AM
*I agree with those who said Zelenka using a scanner is a little weird. Maybe it's not a LSD, but...it looks like an LSD, so it seems a little odd. And he's remarkably calm walking into a Wraith lab considering the last time we saw him off-world (Duet) he was about to jump out of his skin. Although we did see him going to the "Mr. Mom" planet, so evidently he's had quite a bit of off-world experience since then.


I noticed the scanner/LSD too. Maybe it had been initialised somehow so non ATA gene users could operate it?



*Was anyone else bugged by the Wraith's hair? Wow that was a bad wig. Usually it's not so bad, but this one was so obviously a wig that it was sparkling. :S

Oh yes. It looked like something out of the seventies. I didn't realise the wraith had hair crimpers! :lol:




*Speaking of hair, Carter's hair really bugged me in this episode. I'm not a fan of it long, I'll be honest, but in the other episodes this season, it's at least been neat. This was...not so much.

I liked her hair here better than the more formal styles personally. I thought it looked prettier. Sorry :o




*I didn't care for her calling Sheppard John. It's not a big deal, but I'd prefer they not be so buddy-buddy. It seems a little unprofessional.

I'm presuming they know each other from before. Certainly they met at least as early as TPP, and surely they conversed at the time of Return I ? Ellis called Shep 'John'. Carter appears to have a relaxed style, and I rather like it myself. I can't explain why, but I just do :)





*And now for my big, major, grip with the episode-and that was the opening scene with Rodney. OK. I love Rodney. He's probably my favorite character, although Shep is a pretty close second. But.....I hated this scene. With a deep deep hatred. Normally this would be classic Rodney, and not a problem. But under the circumstances, I felt like it was almost grotesquely inappropriate. They've just lost Elizabeth, someone who Rodney was very close to, and respected a great deal. And Rodney carries some of the responsibility for what's happened to her. One of my major gripes with Lifeline was that we never got any sort of a reaction from Rodney losing Elizabeth, other than his shocked look in the jumper. But Lifeline was so packed that I was willing to let it go if they addressed it in the next episode. But here, not only is Rodney NOT mourning Elizabeth, he's practically vibrating in excitement about being chosen to replace her. Bad bad character continuity. They threw away the chance for some depth from Rodney in favor of trying to add some laughs. Well, I wasn't laughing. :( And yes, I know we don't know how much time has passed. But....I'm sorry. The way Lifeline went....I needed more than that. Hopefully sometime later we'll get some reaction from Rodney about Elizabeth, and I'll be able to forgive this scene. Right now, not so much.

I have to be honest and say that I didn't notice Rodney not mourning Weir. But, yes, I can see your point here. He didn't mention her when he was close to her. I know there could be many reasons why, but I do understand what you're saying here, though you had to point it out to me for me to notice on this occasion :o


The pros:

Honestly, the rest of the episode I liked. Starting out with:

*Teyla and Ronon going to look for the Satedans. Somehow I feel like we've been here before. :) The whole Teyla looking for a husband thing was funny, and wonderfully acted by both Jason and Rachel. I loved Teyla's scene in the bar, and the fight.

*Sam and Teal'c goodbye scene(I'm possibly slightly a closet Sam/Teal'c shipper, sorry Caladria :D). Although I was a little disappointed-I had been under the impression from vague spoilers that we would see her being ordered to go to Atlantis, and her not necessarily being happy about it. This almost made it sound like she was given the option of refusing. I'll have to watch that scene again. Anyway.

*The scene in the gateroom with them greeting her was also well done. John stealing Rodney's basket was classic John & Rodney warfare. Great touch.

*The Sam/Rodney scene in Carter's quarters was awkward, but not as bad as I'd feared - I was afraid of a more public smackdown. I'm glad they didn't go that route. And am I the only one that thinks that a possible interpretation of Rodney's "unrequited lust" line is him speaking of himself and recognizing that he needs to clear the air about that if they're going to work together? Because I'm just having a hard time believing that Rodney is self-deluded enough to deny that he has had lustful feelings for Carter-in fact, he's admitted it. In the past he's always claimed that she returned those feelings but was just hiding it. The term "unrequited" seemed to me to be a recognition of reality. It's just that the way he stumbled over himself Sam ended up misinterpreting him. But I'm probably the only person who thinks that-that's ok. :D

*The scene with Ronon and Carter - I liked that Ronon got in her face, and I liked that she didn't give in.

*The balcony scene was a rather blatant callback to Rising, and I thought I would have more of an issue with it after reading spoilers, but...it was handled well. And I didn't feel like John was out of character - I thought he was actually rather IN-character, trying to sweet-talk her into letting him go look for Elizabeth. His attitude visibly changed when she said no, but him not putting up more of a protest is actually rather in line with what we've seen from John IMO. John's not an in-your-face rebel like O'Neill was - in fact, the only time I can remember seeing him directly get in the face of a superior officer was in Sateda, to Caldwell. And Caldwell isn't in his chain of command. No, John is much more passive-aggressive. He'll back down on the face of it, but if he feels strongly enough about it, he'll just go ahead and do it anyway when you're not looking. Like when he staged the rescue attempt in Return. He didn't fight Landry all that much about it-he just went behind his back.

*Teyla and Ronon's fight-and their discussion. This was a great scene for Teyla.

*John and Ronon's discussion at the table...also good...

*Going into the Wraith lab. Ronan being torn between the two teams. John and Teyla getting captured, and Rodney having the sense to hide. :D Good for you Rodney, but how in the world DID you get in there anyway?

*Ronon coming back for reinforcements, and Carter giving them to him. And yes, philosophically I have a little issue with Carter going off world with the team, but, logic aside, I didn't mind how it was handled. It seemed by the little scene in the jumper that Carter going off-world this time was clearly intended as a bonding-thing between Ronon and Carter. And...yeah, maybe it's a little fast, but I thought it worked. I guess maybe I'm so used to seeing her on a gateteam that it doesn't feel that out of place, although it's true that as a leader, she should have stayed behind. But according to AT, she only goes offworld three time this year, and one of those is Trio, so I didn't mind it being used this time.

*Oh, and I liked that they were smart enough to use two jumpers-one as a decoy. Was that Lorne's voice in the other jumper? :) I'll imagine it was.

*Rodney being taken to work on the Replicator, and his dismay when he discovered that they had one captured. It almost seems like Rodney's more afraid of the Replicators than the Wraith at this point.

*Ronon's horror at finding out his friends are wraith worshippers. And yeah, using the Wraith gift of life to break them seems strange after Common Ground, but I had an idea that this was all staged by the Wraith to get Rodney. It's probably not a normal usage, but the Wraith needed to get to Rodney, and they (presumably) know Ronon is with the Atlantians now. So they broke Ronon's friends and used them to lure the Atlantians in.

*I liked that Ronon didn't kill his last friend, but I wonder if there'll be consequences from leaving him alive. I notice that he didn't tell anyone that. And saying "they're right here."

*And I did like the last scene with Ronon and Teyla.

My rating...7/10 - losing points for the beginning scene with Rodney.

I like your observations here. I gave it 8.5/10 I think :)

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 11:25 AM
When I say she couldn't have taken it, I mean physically, like, by having the camera in her hands or hiding it on her person.

If she's not a stalker, how does she have that picture? It's not like some random guy passed them on the street, took the photo and then gave it to her (that she tracked such a guy down). So the most logical conclusion would be that she rigged a camera in a tree and triggered it remotely.

The same could be said for he picture of Rodney and Carson in Sunday. ;)
It's a props thing... let it go FAII, she didn't take it, it was a nice gesture to the SJ peeps and if you really want to take it further, maybe Daniel took it and gave it to her or Teal'c was practicing his photography skills and gave it to her before she left. We could go round in circles, but at the end of the day, it's a photograph of Jack in his civvies that Sam took with her. Nothing more, nothing less.. and I do believe she has more photo's on her desk of the team! :eek: Bad Sam. :)


I noticed the scanner/LSD too. Maybe it had been initialised somehow so non ATA gene users could operate it?



Oh yes. It looked like something out of the seventies. I didn't realise the wraith had hair crimpers! :lol:



I liked her hair here better than the more formal styles personally. I thought it looked prettier. Sorry :o



I'm presuming they know each other from before. Certainly they met at least as early as TPP, and surely they conversed at the time of Return I ? Ellis called Shep 'John'. Carter appears to have a relaxed style, and I rather like it myself. I can't explain why, but I just do :)




I have to be honest and say that I didn't notice Rodney not mourning Weir. But, yes, I can see your point here. He didn't mention her when he was close to her. I know there could be many reasons why, but I do understand what you're saying here, though you had to point it out to me for me to notice on this occasion :o


I like your observations here. I gave it 8.5/10 I think :)

Hair crimpers! :lol: I think Rodney just gets caught up in the moment, but i'm going to watch that scene again I think. I might have put it down to him being excited at Sam arriving... because you know with all that lusting, his brain may have been fried at the thought of her in her dress blues, but since he didn't know....

And my point was? :lol:

AGateFan
October 13th, 2007, 11:26 AM
Name the episode this picture is seen in and what episode it's from and I'll look into it.


I haven't noticed such a trend (about the pictures). It was only as a response to the people going on about it being proof of S/J:ness.
The picture was seen in Sunday (I believe). (EDIT-- see I'm not crazy Pegasus SGA saw it too...ok that doesnt confirm I am not crazy but it does confirm they have used such pics in the past)
The picture is from Duet (I also believe) its the real cool one with Beckett and Mckay in the grey\black gear walking in the field and talking about Rodneys date with Katie Brown (I again believe)...its a really nice pic of the two of them so I can see why they used it in the ep.

I can think of better pics of O'Neill... in fact there is an RDA\MS pic (its off camera) that I think they could make work as a buddy pic in an ep if they were so inclined...though not sure why they would be since this is SGA and not SG-1. Its OK for Carter to have pics of her buddies (and apparently she has more then just O'Neill) but theres no point lingering on them.

Linzi
October 13th, 2007, 11:34 AM
The same could be said for he picture of Rodney and Carson in Sunday. ;)
It's a props thing... let it go FAII, she didn't take it, it was a nice gesture to the SJ peeps and if you really want to take it further, maybe Daniel took it and gave it to her or Teal'c was practicing his photography skills and gave it to her before she left. We could go round in circles, but at the end of the day, it's a photograph of Jack in his civvies that Sam took with her. Nothing more, nothing less.. and I do believe she has more photo's on her desk of the team! :eek: Bad Sam. :)



Hair crimpers! :lol: I think Rodney just gets caught up in the moment, but i'm going to watch that scene again I think. I might have put it down to him being excited at Sam arriving... because you know with all that lusting, his brain may have been fried at the thought of her in her dress blues, but since he didn't know....

And my point was? :lol:
Your point was that you sympathise with McKay because your brain gets fried when you have certain lustful thoughts? Not that I'm saying I think you do have lustful thoughts. Oh no. I wouldn't say I think that - I know that!

Where was I? Oh yes. I meant to say when Teyla told Rodney to be strong I got a lump in my throat. Seriously he looked so damn brave and determined to be strong. Sniff...

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 11:38 AM
The same could be said for he picture of Rodney and Carson in Sunday. ;)
It's a props thing... let it go FAII, she didn't take it, it was a nice gesture to the SJ peeps and if you really want to take it further, maybe Daniel took it and gave it to her or Teal'c was practicing his photography skills and gave it to her before she left. We could go round in circles, but at the end of the day, it's a photograph of Jack in his civvies that Sam took with her. Nothing more, nothing less.. and I do believe she has more photo's on her desk of the team! :eek: Bad Sam. :)
Other people brought up the picture. I brought up my views on it. I didn't spontaneously bring it up.

Neither one had a camera on them. So either Sam's a stalker or Daniel or Teal'c a stalker who rigged a camera in a tree or something.


The picture was seen in Sunday (I believe). (EDIT-- see I'm not crazy Pegasus SGA saw it too...ok that doesnt confirm I am not crazy but it does confirm they have used such pics in the past)
The picture is from Duet (I also believe) its the real cool one with Beckett and Mckay in the grey\black gear walking in the field and talking about Rodneys date with Katie Brown (I again believe)...its a really nice pic of the two of them so I can see why they used it in the ep.
Maybe Laura (Cadman) took it. Or one of the other soldiers.

At least in that case, we didn't see them sitting or standing somewhere where they couldn't possibly have taken the photo, yet they were in possession of it.

Strix varia
October 13th, 2007, 11:46 AM
To my understanding, "Saint Carter" is a quasi-derogatory term us anti-Carters (I only became an anti-Carterian recently) invented to use for the character of Sam Carter, who can't ever do anything wrong.

Or if she does, it's never anything big. 10 years on Stargate and she's got an almost perfect record.

She's the perfect little girl who does everything right and is always right. When I say "Saint Carter"-fans, I mean the fans who are a fan of her and view her as perfect.

Ah, I misunderstood you then. See, I thought you were insulting the majority of Carter fans by accusing us of being hypocrites for doing things we haven't even done yet regarding an episode that hasn't aired and none of us have actually seen.

But you're actually just insulting the Carter fans who think the character is perfect. And since I don't know of a single Carter fan who thinks she's flawless (most of us really like her, but admit that she's just human), you haven't really insulted anyone at all.

Glad to clear that up. My mistake.

And you know, really, you should spend more time on the anti-Carter threads if you think Sam is perfect. Most anti-Carter fans find plenty of opportunities to point out her flaws, such as her obvious stalkerish tendencies. Quite the paradox, Sam Carter, that she can be hated both for her perfection and her obvious flaws.

Besides, if she were perfect, she would have delivered a slightly better speech upon her arrival to Atlantis, I think.

Callie
October 13th, 2007, 11:50 AM
During John and Ronon’s conversation in the Mess Hall, at one point John pushes his tray aside. There’s a strange brief plaintive wailing sound offscreen that sounds like he shoved the tray into a kitten sitting on the table!

Shan Bruce Lee
October 13th, 2007, 11:57 AM
When I say she couldn't have taken it, I mean physically, like, by having the camera in her hands or hiding it on her person.

If she's not a stalker, how does she have that picture? It's not like some random guy passed them on the street, took the photo and then gave it to her (that she tracked such a guy down). So the most logical conclusion would be that she rigged a camera in a tree and triggered it remotely.



I think you're really, really reaching there.

Ruffles
October 13th, 2007, 11:57 AM
I liked Teyla saying that too. I think you could tell that she was very worried for Rodney---not necessarily because she thought he would give up any secrets, but also because she was truly worried about his welfare.
As someone else said, Rodney is not a soldier like the rest of the team. He's first and foremost a scientist. Obviously John, Ronon and Teyla have helped to train him a bit, but his instincts are not those of a soldier and I thought it was very realistic for him to try and escape when the Wraith captured John and Teyla. I also liked how he didn't become hysterical when the Wraith took him from the holding cell. He was scared, but he went without incident. If they hadn't stunned John, I don't think they would've gotten Rodney out of that cell without a fight from Shep........which would've ended up with Shep being stunned anyway. Oh well, still, exciting stuff.

Wilson3Girl

ITA. I loved Rodney's response: "I'll try." No whining, begging, babbling about being a deadman. He's been around long enough to know what happens when you get removed from a Wraith holding cell.


Sam's speech and arrival was average. Rodney's fruit basket (which I thought was a very sweet and good idea) made me laugh but stupid Sheppard (who I wanted to strangle for saying to Rodney he should have brought flowers) had to ruin it. I mean Rodney doing something nice is... well ... rare, so John was kinda mean. I thought they were good friend, so this was no a very friendly gesture. Especially when John stole the basket fruit and gave it to Sam. Rodney was pissed, and I like a pissed Rodney too. But still, it was old McKay and not the new McKay we have had since Tao or Sunday.

I am amazed that Rodney would not only think to get her something to welcome her but that it would be something so unique as a basket of fruits from their trading partners. This is the same guy that swiped something from Weir's desk to give as a gift to his niece.

Sheppard stealing it was hilarious to me. I think it goes to show that competitve streak (The Game) is still there. I don't doubt their friendship. Rodney just happens to be really gullible. *snickers*


*Going into the Wraith lab. Ronan being torn between the two teams. John and Teyla getting captured, and Rodney having the sense to hide. :D Good for you Rodney, but how in the world DID you get in there anyway?

That's exactly what I wanted to know. Is there a control panel for that as well?

morjana
October 13th, 2007, 11:58 AM
I enjoyed SGA's Oct. 12 episode, "Reunion" very much.

Loved the Sam and Teal'c goodbye scene at the SGC. Poor Teal'c, losing another friend (Jack's in Washington, now Sam's in Atlantis) from his daily routine.

And Rodney! LOL! Clears the air immediately with Sam about their "unrequited lust." And...plans a strategic retreat.

Lovely new beauty shot of Atlantis in its new home.

Excellent fight sequence with Ronon and his former friends.

It was interesting seeing a video clip on Joseph Mallozzi's blog a couple of weeks ago from Ronon's first episode on SGA, rehearsing his fight scene with Ford:

http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee164/BaronDestructo/?action=view&current=M4V00002.flv

As the mission that Carter went on was Search and Rescue for her second-in-command (Shep), Atlantis' chief scientist (McKay), and their local Pegasus Galaxy liaison (Teyla), I thought it made PERFECT sense for Carter to go on the mission.

Her action set the "tone" for her command, and showcases the lessons learned from Jack O'Neill, including: No one gets left behind!

Kudos also to Will Waring on his episode directing. Outstanding job.

Morjana

saberhagen83
October 13th, 2007, 11:58 AM
During John and Ronon’s conversation in the Mess Hall, at one point John pushes his tray aside. There’s a strange brief plaintive wailing sound offscreen that sounds like he shoved the tray into a kitten sitting on the table!

Hah, I thought I heard that! :D I actually thought it was my cat, but he was sleeping when I looked at him. :)

FallenAngelII
October 13th, 2007, 11:59 AM
Ah, I misunderstood you then. See, I thought you were insulting the majority of Carter fans by accusing us of being hypocrites for doing things we haven't even done yet regarding an episode that hasn't aired and none of us have actually seen.

But you're actually just insulting the Carter fans who think the character is perfect. And since I don't know of a single Carter fan who thinks she's flawless (most of us really like her, but admit that she's just human), you haven't really insulted anyone at all.
Yes, because the fans I've seen who defend her every mistake with "She couldn't help it!", "She couldn't have known!" or "It wasn't reaaaally that big!" don't exist. In my time here, I've seen plenty of being going to great lengths to argue that Sam almost never does anything wrong, ever.


And you know, really, you should spend more time on the anti-Carter threads if you think Sam is perfect. Most anti-Carter fans find plenty of opportunities to point out her flaws, such as her obvious stalkerish tendencies. Quite the paradox, Sam Carter, that she can be hated both for her perfection and her obvious flaws.

Besides, if she were perfect, she would have delivered a slightly better speech upon her arrival to Atlantis, I think.
Have you missed this thread? Or the "Sam and Jack are not together!"-thread (mine, in Season Four), where I'm claiming Sam's got stalkerish tendencies and being battled by a bunch of Carter-fans claiming she does not?


I think you're really, really reaching there.
Not really. Logic beats everything. She couldn't have taken that picture with a camera on her person, yet she has it.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 13th, 2007, 12:02 PM
Mark Dacascos was awesome in this episode. I just wish they'd shot that fight scene in a brighter location but they left it open for his character to come back so maybe next time.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 13th, 2007, 12:03 PM
Not really. Logic beats everything. She couldn't have taken that picture with a camera on her person, yet she has it.



All that means is that somebody gave it to her.

FoolishPleasure
October 13th, 2007, 12:04 PM
Her action set the "tone" for her command, and showcases the lessons learned from Jack O'Neill, including: No one gets left behind!

That's what bugged me a bit about Carter - she went on this big, dangerous mission, but she wouldn't let Sheppard do anything about going back for Weir.

In the "good old days" of SG1, how many times did SG1 just take off, disobeying Hammond, the president, common sense, and go on what seemed to be "suicide" missions? They did it ALL the time, but she went all mamby-pamby with Sheppard, then went on a dangerous mission herself. It wasn't consistent at all. She could easily have sent other soldiers out to stop the Chairman from stealing broccoli for the Wraith. ;)

AGateFan
October 13th, 2007, 12:09 PM
Not really. Logic beats everything. She couldn't have taken that picture with a camera on her person, yet she has it.

Yes logic would tell you she didnt take the picture. Logic would tell you that as far as TPTB are concerned the pic isnt even from the episode its from...its just a prop. A reused prop just like sets or weapons or other things. There is no character statement made in the pic other then Carter has pics of her former team, in this case O'Neill.

Exactly like NO ONE took the pic of Mckay and Beckett in the episode Duet. Cadman nor the other guard had a camera with them...didnt dash out in front of them and snap their pic. As far as TPTB is concerned it was just a nice pic taken at some randome time (not in that ep at that place). Its a prop.

dosed150
October 13th, 2007, 12:10 PM
That's what bugged me a bit about Carter - she went on this big, dangerous mission, but she wouldn't let Sheppard do anything about going back for Weir.

In the "good old days" of SG1, how many times did SG1 just take off, disobeying Hammond, the president, common sense, and go on what seemed to be "suicide" missions? They did it ALL the time, but she went all mamby-pamby with Sheppard, then went on a dangerous mission herself. It wasn't consistent at all. She could easily have sent other soldiers out to stop the Chairman from stealing broccoli for the Wraith. ;)

exposing yourself to danger is different to exposing others to danger

Integrabyte
October 13th, 2007, 12:19 PM
Hiya hon. I think one of the things that some people (including me) were worried about was if there was going to be any friction. Well that scene for me anyway was a clever way to create that without it coming off as forced. I liked the bonding at the end with the two in the jumper. But I think it'll be a while before he gets to know her and trust her. Even with Weir he was guarded for quite a while, and I don't expect this to be any different. I like that he brought up about Weir and how she wouldn't have told him no, and would have trusted him implicitely, and he's infering that she doesn't. Great scene. :D


*you made me blush :P* (yeah I am a guy and not embarrassed to admit it :P) heee heee*

Ronon is not my favourite character but this episode showed he can put some tears in your eyes. The writers did a good job in the last scene, however, in several cases the camera crew was out of sync with the battle. Ronon, was never this rude to Weir. I guess this is their way of showing how the "alfa" male has issues accepting a woman with exemplary military skill. On top of that she is a techie ;).


That's what bugged me a bit about Carter - she went on this big, dangerous mission, but she wouldn't let Sheppard do anything about going back for Weir.

In the "good old days" of SG1, how many times did SG1 just take off, disobeying Hammond, the president, common sense, and go on what seemed to be "suicide" missions? They did it ALL the time, but she went all mamby-pamby with Sheppard, then went on a dangerous mission herself. It wasn't consistent at all. She could easily have sent other soldiers out to stop the Chairman from stealing broccoli from the Wraith


People blame Sam for not letting John go after Weir. Anyone recall Rising? Did Weir authorize a mission to bust out Teyla and Sumner? Nope.... not until John showed he had a plan and an advantage. Did SAM ask John to provide her a plan with a remote chance of success? She did, she behaved exactly like Weir and she was open to this idea. I can be feisty and blame John for not being able to provide a tactical advantage and a good plan. "DAMMMN YOU JOHN!!!!" *stop throwing rocks people :D*

The whole rescue operation is a modified Rising depiction. Having said that, one can explain why Sam sanctioned and joined the rescue mission. They did this before, they had a tactical advantage; Ronon knew what was out there, whereas with Weir....

Linzi
October 13th, 2007, 12:22 PM
That's what bugged me a bit about Carter - she went on this big, dangerous mission, but she wouldn't let Sheppard do anything about going back for Weir.

I think there's a difference here. Shep's team were on a mission and were captured by the wraith on a planet with few wraith. Carter obviously thought there was a good chance of retrieving her people safely. Sheppard has already been refused permission to try and find Weir by the IOA, or at least been given the run around by them. Carter agrees with them that's it's not a viable mission, that it would be a suicide mission, because not only do they not know where Weir is, they also have no way to infiltrate Asura, if that's where they think Weir is, as they did before. Therefore the chances of that mission succeeding are so slight that it's too big a risk - not just in terms of the loss of the team, but the potential that vital information concerning Atlantis' whereabout could be revealed. To me, that part of it makes sense.




In the "good old days" of SG1, how many times did SG1 just take off, disobeying Hammond, the president, common sense, and go on what seemed to be "suicide" missions? They did it ALL the time, but she went all mamby-pamby with Sheppard, then went on a dangerous mission herself. It wasn't consistent at all. She could easily have sent other soldiers out to stop the Chairman from stealing broccoli for the Wraith. ;)

Well, I think SG1 usually went off to save Earth and the universe, not one person ;) Though it's possible I'm not remembering them taking off without permission to save one person. Ten years worth of SG1 means a lot of episodes to remember...;)

I didn't mind Carter going on the mission at all, but I do see why some have issues with it. She's the new leader, should she risk herself here? I don't know the answer to that, but I guess she's a soldier who's used to taking care of herself, and maybe she might have found it hard not to be in the midst of the action? As long as she isn't off-world every week, and we know she isn't going to be, then I'm ok with it on the odd occasion. But, I do see why some have an issue with both Carter and Shep off world at the same time and in a dangerous situation together. I guess Earth can send replacements through the wormhole straight away should the worst happen to both of them ;)

justhere1971
October 13th, 2007, 12:28 PM
I think there's a difference here. Shep's team were on a mission and were captured by the wraith on a planet with few wraith. Carter obviously thought there was a good chance of retrieving her people safely. Sheppard has already been refused permission to try and find Weir by the IOA, or at least been given the run around by them. Carter agrees with them that's it's not a viable mission, that it would be a suicide mission, because not only do they not know where Weir is, they also have no way to infiltrate Asura, if that's where they think Weir is, as they did before. Therefore the chances of that mission succeeding are so slight that it's too big a risk - not just in terms of the loss of the team, but the potential that vital information concerning Atlantis' whereabout could be revealed. To me, that part of it makes sense.



Well, I think SG1 usually went off to save Earth and the universe, not one person ;) Though it's possible I'm not remembering them taking off without permission to save one person. Ten years worth of SG1 means a lot of episodes to remember...;)

I didn't mind Carter going on the mission at all, but I do see why some have issues with it. She's the new leader, should she risk herself here? I don't know the answer to that, but I guess she's a soldier who's used to taking care of herself, and maybe she might have found it hard not to be in the midst of the action? As long as she isn't off-world every week, and we know she isn't going to be, then I'm ok with it on the odd occasion. But, I do see why some have an issue with both Carter and Shep off world at the same time and in a dangerous situation together. I guess Earth can send replacements through the wormhole straight away should the worst happen to both of them ;)

Can I request Daniel please? ;) Or Jack.

Cautious Explorer
October 13th, 2007, 12:36 PM
Ronon is not my favourite character but this episode showed he can put some tears in your eyes. The writers did a good job in the last scene, however, in several cases the camera crew was out of sync with the battle. Ronon, was never this rude to Weir. I guess this is their way of showing how the "alfa" male has issues accepting a woman with exemplary military skill. On top of that she is a techie ;).

Ronon's fine with Teyla and had no problem working with the Satedan woman. I don't think his issues with Carter have anything to do with his having a problem with Carter's "exemplary military skill" -- which he has seen no evidence of.

If he was okay taking orders from Weir, who had no military expertise, I can't see him balking at taking orders from another woman just because she holds a military rank. I think it's mainly about Carter being an unknown entity who appears to mistrust his judgment.



People blame Sam for not letting John go after Weir. Anyone recall Rising? Did Weir authorize a mission to bust out Teyla and Sumner? Nope.... not until John showed he had a plan and an advantage. Did SAM ask John to provide her a plan with a remote chance of success? She did, she behaved exactly like Weir and she was open to this idea. I can be feisty and blame John for not being able to provide a tactical advantage and a good plan. "DAMMMN YOU JOHN!!!!" *stop throwing rocks people :D*

The whole rescue operation is a modified Rising depiction. Having said that, one can explain why Sam sanctioned and joined the rescue mission. They did this before, they had a tactical advantage; Ronon knew what was out there, whereas with Weir....

Well it's very hard to forget Rising when this scene is clearly a direct rip-off. I'm not sure what the writers were trying to accomplish here. It just jolted me out of the moment.

Irish Eyes
October 13th, 2007, 12:46 PM
My thoughts on Reunion, in order of their appearance:

The scene I hated: Well, we get it right off the bat. Here’s Rodney, positively giddy at the thought of being the leader of Atlantis. Never mind the fact that the last leader is his very good friend who could be dead and at the very least is missing. I saw real growth in Rodney last season, so much so that he went from someone who annoyed me to being a character that I truly enjoy. Not so much in this scene.

Sam’s arrival: This scene just seemed lacking. I agree that Shep and Sam should have saluted each other. The speech by Sam was kind of boring. She looked nice in her dress blues though.

Vase: This is my silly nitpick. When Rodney brought Sam flowers she just happened to have a vase sitting there ready and waiting.:rolleyes:

Most awkward part of a scene: When Rodney brought up he’s dating someone. Heck, Rodney even admitted the conversation was awkward. I’m hoping this was the writers’ way of putting to rest Rodney’s lust for Sam so we won’t have to deal with it the rest of the season.

Same scene gets better: The whole exchange between Ronon and Sam. Finally some tension that Sam (through no fault of her own) has taken Elizabeth’s place. Based on the first three episodes, I’m starting to think Ronon felt closer to Elizabeth than we knew. ;)

The scene I’m not sure what to make of: The balcony with Sam/Shep. Um, yeah. Moving on…

The scene I loved: Ronon and Teyla training. The first part with the sparring was just plain fun. Then we get some insight on both of them, and in particular Teyla and her feelings on leaving her people. I wish we would have seen more of this in seasons 2 & 3, especially given what’s to come.

Saddest moment: When they split up in the wraith outpost and Ronon says “good luck” to John and John doesn’t reply. Why not? And then Ronon just looks lost as his former team leaves. :(

Budget cut: Wardrobe department – :ronananime16: bad wig. Nuff said.

Why is she on this rescue op? part 1: Sam. Obviously she can handle herself on the mission, but who’s minding the store? Chuck?

Why is he on this rescue op? part 2: Zelenka. This is worse than Sam. There’s no reason for him to be there. In fact, I’d say he’s a liability on the mission.

Awwww moment: Ronon realizes who his true friends are.

End scene: Nice full circle to the episode having Teyla there with Ronon. However, I’m not sure why Rodney wanted that painting. Doesn’t seem his taste. Maybe as a memento of his friend?

Regarding the whole calling people by their first name, last name, rank or whatever, I’ve just learned to roll with it. Let’s face it, they’ve never been consistent. I’ve always attributed this to the “different writer for every episode” syndrome. I will say, though, there are times when it’s jarring and makes you go "huh"?

Skydiver
October 13th, 2007, 01:12 PM
I didn't have any real issue with the episode. I love the sam/teal'c goodbye scene. This is what many folks missed from s9.

I also really liked the sam/ronon tension. I don't want it to be all wine and roses, ain't we happy, that sam's there. let them be unhappy with the change.

i felt so sorry for rod and his whole unrequited lust speech. Let's hope that they stop using rod as their stooge adn just let him be a person.

some may have felt that the sam/shep scene about liz was out of place, but i have a funny feeling that it's just putting things into place for later in the season. my hunch is that the rescue of liz will be a recurring theme and maybe E plot for the season.

I can see that sam's hair wasn't regulatioon but...eh whatever. it is what it is. AT least it was back in a pony tail, which is more than can be said for teyla's over the years :)

I enjoyed the hour

Anubis-
October 13th, 2007, 01:24 PM
Wraith are beated Replicators, why wraith did not take replicators shield and weapons.

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 01:25 PM
Loved this episode. Just like I loved Adrift, Lifeline, and Doppelganger. Season 4 is off to a great start, the best of any Atlantis season.

Joe Mallozzi did a great job on this ep. I thought the Ronon/Carter scenes were brilliant. I'm happy that the Carter/Mckay lust/Rivalry thing was put to bed, for now anyway. I wan't their character's interactions to grow this season, not be stuck like that. The Asuran vs. Wraith stuff was great! Seeing the Wraith be pretty much disgusted at the Asurans was very cool, and interesting too. I wonder why that was? I didn't mind that Carter led a rescue mission. Her doing that is much more logical than when Weir going to the Genii with no backrp or weapons and begging them for a nuke. And speaking of Weir, great to see that she had numerous mentions in this ep. Well, two atleast. And she gets mentioned in Doppelganger too. Good to see the writers have learned their lesson after Carson. I loved the Teal'c/Carter scene, and can't wait for his second appearance this season. Also loved the teyla stuff, especially at the beginning, specifically: "And you might want to consider offering your unsolicited advice to someone who actually cares to recieve it". The way she said that was great! Her scenes with Ronon were great too! It was good to see an ep where Ronon and Teyla got more to do than Shep and Mckay for a change! Though I would say they all got their fair share:)

Great job Joe!

beneaththeblue
October 13th, 2007, 01:25 PM
I was pretty disappointed with this episode. While some of the character interaction was good, the plot was so predictable and another rehash of an SG1 episode-the one about the charismatic rebel Jaffa leader who convinces Teal'c to join him and leave SG1, then turns out to be a Goauld.(Sorry if this has been mentioned already-I read about eight pages of reviews and gave up). I think it was called "The Warrior."

And I agree that it was unrealistic in the extreme for Carter and Zelenka, of all people, to go on the rescue mission. And for that matter, I had a hard time believing Ronon would leave his friends to run back to Atlantis for help. Not that it wasn't the smart thing to do, but Ronon has always been a proponent of fighting more than strategic retreat.

Glad others liked it and I hope the ratings were good, but for me this was just bleh.

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 01:35 PM
Hmm that brings up good point, will we see Wraith form replicators? If the Asurans aren't just blowing the wraith up and are assimilating them that could be a possibility for the future.

Yes! That would be great! I personally feel the Asurans are becoming much more interesting than the replicators. With Weir becoming the first organic Replicator/Asuran in Adrift, a Wraith-form Asuran would be another great step forward!:) Good thinking Kirmit!

bluealien
October 13th, 2007, 01:37 PM
Excellent episode... I think my favourtie so far.. well certaintly up there with Doppelganger..:)

I can't think of anything I didn't like about this ep. Ronan was awesome and I really hope his character gets more screentime as the season progresses. Teyla was also fantastic and she looked so stunning... pregnancy glow..It was great hearing her thoughts on being on Atlantis and how she felt guilty for leaving her people.

It was a wonderful character study and showed just how close the team really are. Ronan being torn being his old Satedan friends and his Atlantis friends, was done very well and it just seemed so strange watching him go with the Satedans on the mission.

Carter is growing on me more and more, and again it's great seeing her being able to contribute, and when she goes on a mission she can actually help. I loved her scene with Ronan and he was so in character... it reminded me of when he met Sheppard and Teyla in Runner.. he says exactly what's on his mind. The writers are trying a bit too hard too throw in lines about Weir and the one by Ronan about Weir allowing his friends to stay just seemed forced in there for another opportunity to mention Weir.. I doubt very much whether Weirs decision would have been any different from Carters. Also the converstation about mounting a rescue mission for Weir. Weir is now compromised and most likely a huge threat to Atlantis. If she was just a prisoner somewhere I could understand Sheppard wanting to rescue her but she is now part replicator, so it seems odd that Sheppard gave the order to have her killed severel times but now wants to rescue her.. It would seem more natural if they just said they missed her and it would be nice to see Rodney mention her especially when he heard the news about who was going to be the new leader, and particulary since Rodney was probably the closest to her. Puts Atlantis in danger to save her and then doesn't even mention her again..

But overall a very well paced and exciting episode, with a good balance of wonderful character moments and action.

10/10

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 01:43 PM
* "I'm not Doctor Weir." - Way to rub it in for us who don't like the change. Probably not intentional, but still.

What did you expect her to say? "secondly, I am Dr. Weir"?:D

Seriously though, saying she wasn't Dr. Weir made perfect sense given what Ronon said.

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 01:49 PM
You know, that's an interesting point. Atlantis has always been civilian-led and Weir had to do her fair share of fighting for control over the military and IOA. And now that command has been switched over to military there were zero comments about it from anyone, not even a "oh, we have to go military now because it's so much more dangerous." No real reasoning for such a big switch outside of sticking Carter into the empty slot.

Five words for this:

The galaxy is at war.

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 01:53 PM
The picture was seen in Sunday (I believe). (EDIT-- see I'm not crazy Pegasus SGA saw it too...ok that doesnt confirm I am not crazy but it does confirm they have used such pics in the past)
The picture is from Duet (I also believe) its the real cool one with Beckett and Mckay in the grey\black gear walking in the field and talking about Rodneys date with Katie Brown (I again believe)...its a really nice pic of the two of them so I can see why they used it in the ep.

I can think of better pics of O'Neill... in fact there is an RDA\MS pic (its off camera) that I think they could make work as a buddy pic in an ep if they were so inclined...though not sure why they would be since this is SGA and not SG-1. Its OK for Carter to have pics of her buddies (and apparently she has more then just O'Neill) but theres no point lingering on them.

:eek: Are you implying i'm nuts to? ;) Isn't calling someone a nutter against forum rules? :P

hehehe and no we're not nuts and here to prove our point!

http://www.atlantis.stargatesg1971.com/screencaps/season3/317/HDTVsga-3x17_1995.jpg

Nice and big to get our point across. ;)


Your point was that you sympathise with McKay because your brain gets fried when you have certain lustful thoughts? Not that I'm saying I think you do have lustful thoughts. Oh no. I wouldn't say I think that - I know that!

Where was I? Oh yes. I meant to say when Teyla told Rodney to be strong I got a lump in my throat. Seriously he looked so damn brave and determined to be strong. Sniff...

I never have lustful thoughts. Dirty ones, yes. Lust? Not so much. :P

OMG me we're going to have to disagree on that point! :eek: This is becoming a habit, Linz. I didn't like that line at all. I never liked it in the Hive either. :lol: It just irks me, and I don't know why...


Other people brought up the picture. I brought up my views on it. I didn't spontaneously bring it up.

Neither one had a camera on them. So either Sam's a stalker or Daniel or Teal'c a stalker who rigged a camera in a tree or something.


Maybe Laura (Cadman) took it. Or one of the other soldiers.

At least in that case, we didn't see them sitting or standing somewhere where they couldn't possibly have taken the photo, yet they were in possession of it.

Pic is above. :D SO by that logic, Daniel, Teal'c or cassie, or if we're really clutching at straws, the dog could have taken it. :D


ITA. I loved Rodney's response: "I'll try." No whining, begging, babbling about being a deadman. He's been around long enough to know what happens when you get removed from a Wraith holding cell.

I am amazed that Rodney would not only think to get her something to welcome her but that it would be something so unique as a basket of fruits from their trading partners. This is the same guy that swiped something from Weir's desk to give as a gift to his niece.

Sheppard stealing it was hilarious to me. I think it goes to show that competitve streak (The Game) is still there. I don't doubt their friendship. Rodney just happens to be really gullible. *snickers*



That's exactly what I wanted to know. Is there a control panel for that as well?

I loved that he got her that stuff, it was like a 'no hard feelings' sorta gift. :D *giggles* it was like you could see Shep plotting it when Rodney ordered the scientist to take it away. Hehehe


*you made me blush :P* (yeah I am a guy and not embarrassed to admit it :P) heee heee*

Ronon is not my favourite character but this episode showed he can put some tears in your eyes. The writers did a good job in the last scene, however, in several cases the camera crew was out of sync with the battle. Ronon, was never this rude to Weir. I guess this is their way of showing how the "alfa" male has issues accepting a woman with exemplary military skill. On top of that she is a techie ;).

*passes over a tissue*

I'll have to watch the fight scene again, i'm sure there were tonnes i missed, but how could you miss the throat slitting! :eek: Very dramatic! Luffed it. :D



People blame Sam for not letting John go after Weir. Anyone recall Rising? Did Weir authorize a mission to bust out Teyla and Sumner? Nope.... not until John showed he had a plan and an advantage. Did SAM ask John to provide her a plan with a remote chance of success? She did, she behaved exactly like Weir and she was open to this idea. I can be feisty and blame John for not being able to provide a tactical advantage and a good plan. "DAMMMN YOU JOHN!!!!" *stop throwing rocks people :D*

The whole rescue operation is a modified Rising depiction. Having said that, one can explain why Sam sanctioned and joined the rescue mission. They did this before, they had a tactical advantage; Ronon knew what was out there, whereas with Weir....

Exactly. If Sheppard had come up with a plan, I guarantee Sam will have let him go. In that respect she is like Weir. She knows what it's like to have someone left behind, but she's smart enough to know not to just go barging in, until intel was received. And in this case Ronon was able to feed back the information to her. :D

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 02:02 PM
It's a word-for-word quote?!?!?! My God that's pathetic!

No it's NOT a word for word quote.

Frankly, I think that had the conversation taken place somewhere other than the balcony people wouldn't be complaining. I find the fact that people are trying to make a conversation that had similarities to a one from years ago(that fitted into the episode well, might I add, and made alot of sense) into something really terrible is pathetic. I heard alot of people complaining that Weir would be forgotten straight away. Now that they have been proven well and trully wrong, it's "OMG they aren't remembering Weir the way I wanted them to can you believe it TPTB are *******s OMG!!!?!?!". Pathetic.


EXACTLY. This just tells me TPTB decided to let amanda take over and not have the successful characters in the episodes.. like in a rescue episode.
Besides, the speech she gave? Pathetic!

What the hell are you talking about?

tombraider
October 13th, 2007, 02:04 PM
The episode was interesting regarding some development for Ronon and putting Carter in charge. Apart from that, the plot was rather on the filler episode side. I did not doubt a minute that Ronon's old friends are up to no good and that he will stay in Atlantis. Perhaps the 30 (20?) second preview at the end of Lifeline gave that away.
For a filler episode it was actually quite good. I could not say that about "Irresponsible" for that matter. There was some excellent martial arts stuff and some pretty good emotions. Whoever said that Ronon is becoming the best developed character without having many lines is right on the money. :ronan:
Carter - McKAy stuff was priceless, especially her look when he said that he was seeing someone.
Yes, Teyla, or rather Rachel Luttlell was showing all right in the sparring scene with Ronon. They tried to work with angles and most of time they showed her above the waist, but when it is there, it shows. ;) I am thrilled to see how they will play it. Some stuff here on Gateworld mentioned that the father is somebody completely new, but I can't forget that in "Sunday" she was discussing with her later blown up friend someone definitely in her close proximity.
Even though I got a bit of a filler episode feeling about "Reunion", I think generally 4th season rocks. I keep my fingers crossed for the renewal. I mean how much merchandise do I have to buy to get it? :sam:

hotvoltage
October 13th, 2007, 02:05 PM
I found it to be very good and it shows that this Season is actually going to be very good. I like the fact that all the characters in SGA are being given a chance to express themselves. This of course includes Ronon.

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 02:20 PM
FallenAngelII, I agree! But don't worry. I'm sure people hated that balcony scene in Rising but now they somehow love that scene in Reunion.

I'm sorry, you aren't actually implying that Carter fans would like something Carter did even if they hated it when Weir did the exact same scene are you? That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. I can, however, easily imagine it happening the other way around...



Indeed like SR pointed out, this episode was Sateda and Rising, though I can't remember what Trinity was about so I can't compare that.. ;) Next week's episode is a cheap copy of Cold Lazarus.

What a load of 100% purified crap! Have you actually seen Doppelganger? Saying that is like saying The Hive is a cheap copy of The Siege just because they both feature Wraith! God, logic seems to be totally lacking with some people.

Gate gal
October 13th, 2007, 02:23 PM
Can I request Daniel please? ;) Or Jack.

If Sam and John were both in mortal danger, I think Daniel, Jack, Teal'c, Cameron, and Vala would all come through the Gate to help. Of course, Carson would descend in order to help as well, and Elizabeth would find a way around those nanites to come to their aid.

Hmmmm, maybe they should go on dangerous missions together every episode...

No flames please. I'm only teasing. :D

I don't think we'll see Sam leaving Atlantis very often, but this time was justified (IMO).

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 02:27 PM
No it's NOT a word for word quote.

Frankly, I think that had the conversation taken place somewhere other than the balcony people wouldn't be complaining. I find the fact that people are trying to make a conversation that had similarities to a one from years ago(that fitted into the episode well, might I add, and made alot of sense) into something really terrible is pathetic. I heard alot of people complaining that Weir would be forgotten straight away. Now that they have been proven well and trully wrong, it's "OMG they aren't remembering Weir the way I wanted them to can you believe it TPTB are *******s OMG!!!?!?!". Pathetic.

What the hell are you talking about?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. :P I thought it was a really nice SGA reference. ;) And suitably apt for such an occasion. One of things i've seen people complaining about is the fact that Carson hasn't been mentioned albeit only briefly. So, now that Weir is being referenced it's like it's become an insult, because it's come from Carter's lips, and maybe to some it feels like she's rubbing salt into the wound. I don't know if it's because people see it as Weir and Shep's balcony, or because it's Sam whose brought up the similarities. I wonder if things would have been different if Shep had said something after that or linked it back. Would people be more or less upset?

And I agree with your point about her being with Ronon and saying she's not Dr Weir. It was a great line, and from the get go, seperated the two leaders. Weir did things her way, and Carter's now doing it hers. Time to throw the old rule book out and start afresh. Before anyone jumps in, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying to forget Weir. I really loved these little references, but Sam is not Elizabeth. Just like Weir was not Hammond, when she replaced him.


The episode was interesting regarding some development for Ronon and putting Carter in charge. Apart from that, the plot was rather on the filler episode side. I did not doubt a minute that Ronon's old friends are up to no good and that he will stay in Atlantis. Perhaps the 30 (20?) second preview at the end of Lifeline gave that away.
For a filler episode it was actually quite good. I could not say that about "Irresponsible" for that matter. There was some excellent martial arts stuff and some pretty good emotions. Whoever said that Ronon is becoming the best developed character without having many lines is right on the money. :ronan:
Carter - McKAy stuff was priceless, especially her look when he said that he was seeing someone.
Yes, Teyla, or rather Rachel Luttlell was showing all right in the sparring scene with Ronon. They tried to work with angles and most of time they showed her above the waist, but when it is there, it shows. ;) I am thrilled to see how they will play it. Some stuff here on Gateworld mentioned that the father is somebody completely new, but I can't forget that in "Sunday" she was discussing with her later blown up friend someone definitely in her close proximity.
Even though I got a bit of a filler episode feeling about "Reunion", I think generally 4th season rocks. I keep my fingers crossed for the renewal. I mean how much merchandise do I have to buy to get it? :sam:

LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA

*puts her fingers in her ears and humms loudly*

Don't mention that ep when i'm around. Please :o

IMForeman
October 13th, 2007, 02:28 PM
This was an average episode, I'd say. A bit predictable, but entertaining.

I will say that I was stoked when I saw Christopher Judge's name in the credits... I just sat up and shouted "Teal'c!" That was a nice, touching scene with him and Sam. I liked his intentional use of a Teal'cism with the "undomesticated equines" line. It's times like this that we see how much Teal'c has grown in the course of 10 years, that he knows that he was oddly formal in his speech once upon a time. "Nice callback," indeed.

I also liked the frame picture of Jack in Sam's box of possessions.

Uber
October 13th, 2007, 02:32 PM
Not to mention hypocritical.

She has no problem mounting a rescue mission (with herself on the front line!) later and she had no problems going to great lengths to mount rescue missions for Jack when he was in similar situations with similar odds!Let's see...a rescue mission to recover team members captured in an undermanned Wraith facility vs. a rescue mission to recover a seriously compromised and possibly not alive team member lost somewhere on a planet overrun by hostile human form replicators with no viable way to reach her without getting everyone killed. Oh and then there's the fact that even if they found her, there's no telling she'd want to be found, would come back willingly or would kill them all herself as she's quite possibly no longer herself.

Similar odds? I think not.

Not all rescue missions are equal and, just like Hammond and Jack and anyone else she's served under, sometimes you have to acknowledge that acceptable risk is one thing. Suicidal is quite another.

Klenotka
October 13th, 2007, 02:33 PM
Geez, I am not getting some of the negativism here.
OK, I am not excited about Carter. She was my least favourite character in SG1 since the first moment. And I don´t like the fact that she will be in SGA. BUT, when I can see whole episode, which was very well done and where she fit pretty good, I won´t complain. I am still worried about Rodney´s relationship to her but when I saw Doppleganger...I loved that episode. And Reunion, there were some very bad moments (Rodney´s "I am seeing someone")but it was made very well as a whole.
I think I can at least admire Carter (and writers) that they have the courage to get over Weir so quickly (they are at war and there isn´t much time for mourning) and let Carter go her own way. And Sam knows that this her own way can cause her problems and don´t get me wrong, I really want to see her deal with problems bc it might help to her character. And it could also be chance for some interesting stories.

But I refuse to be negative absolutely about everything. What is with people these days? I can see only negative reactions, stupid chosen points, seeking problems and mistakes where are not any...I mean, I think we are all fans and love that show, so why constantly look for the bad things? :rolleyes:
I am not some blindly excited fan but this is waaay to much even for me :(

Cautious Explorer
October 13th, 2007, 02:33 PM
No it's NOT a word for word quote.

Frankly, I think that had the conversation taken place somewhere other than the balcony people wouldn't be complaining. I find the fact that people are trying to make a conversation that had similarities to a one from years ago(that fitted into the episode well, might I add, and made alot of sense) into something really terrible is pathetic. I heard alot of people complaining that Weir would be forgotten straight away. Now that they have been proven well and trully wrong, it's "OMG they aren't remembering Weir the way I wanted them to can you believe it TPTB are *******s OMG!!!?!?!". Pathetic.


It's a very familiar conversation in the exact same location of the city, which is annoying to me in its own right. Couple that with the newest addition to the cast voicing the lines of the character most recently MIA and its no surprise that some people are bothered by it.

Imagine if Ronon, in the first episode after he joined Atlantis, ran after John, asked to go along on a joy ride in the puddle jumper and offered a turkey sandwich as a bribe. You don't think people would cry foul?

Whatever the writers were trying to sell in this scene was lost on me.

wolverine_nl
October 13th, 2007, 02:39 PM
Great Episode, not the best, but above average: 7/10

Ow and for the one that questioned why Teal'c had one side gray hair, watch the last SG-1 ep "Unending" to find out why that is ;)

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 02:39 PM
To my understanding, "Saint Carter" is a quasi-derogatory term us anti-Carters (I only became an anti-Carterian recently) invented to use for the character of Sam Carter, who can't ever do anything wrong. Or if she does, it's never anything big. 10 years on Stargate and she's got an almost perfect record.

She's the perfect little girl who does everything right and is always right. When I say "Saint Carter"-fans, I mean the fans who are a fan of her and view her as perfect.

Again, the outstanding hypocrisy of Anti-Carter fans. You, here, calling her Saint Carter who 'never does wrong', and then going out and creating a thread about how stupid and illogical and WRONG she was to go on an away mission. When Elizabeth did something worng it 'made her more human'. When Carter does something wrong "OMG IDIOT ALERT!" Seriously I'm not sure wether I find all the hypocrisy highly amusing or highly sad.


Not to infect this thread, but here are the facts about that picture in Sam's luggage:
* Said picture is a screen capture fro "Singularity" from season 1.
* The picture is 10 years old and Jack isn't even looking into the camera.
* Sam brought it along.

My theory is that Stalker-Sam took it with a stealth camera hidden in her hair.

Ha. I actually found that funny, suprisingly.

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 02:40 PM
It's a very familiar conversation in the exact same location of the city, which is annoying to me in its own right. Couple that with the newest addition to the cast voicing the lines of the character most recently MIA and its no surprise that some people are bothered by it.

Imagine if Ronon, in the first episode after he joined Atlantis, ran after John, asked to go along on a joy ride in the puddle jumper and offered a turkey sandwich as a bribe. You don't think people would cry foul?

Whatever the writers were trying to sell in this scene was lost on me.

Pun intended? :lol:

I can understand where you're coming from, but what she said was true, it's her job now to protect fools from rushing in. And no i'm not saying Shep's a fool, :lol: I'm saying that what she said is what I expect any good leader to say, Hammond has said it, so has Weir. It's a natural course of events. if she'd turned round to Shep and said, 'Go for it.' Don't you think that would be a bit irresponsible of her as a leader?

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 02:42 PM
Again, the outstanding hypocrisy of Anti-Carter fans.

Please, do not lump all anti-carter fans in the same group. Not all of us have the same opinions. Thank you. Actually, that's probably a good idea for people on all sides, but I'm only speaking as an anti-Carter person here.

phibi
October 13th, 2007, 02:43 PM
was it my imagination or did carter have a picture of jack in her stuff???? it was really there, was it? it made me laugh really hard :) another attempt at establishing the jack/carter ship they are always denying... so what, are they together or not... maybe we'll find out in another ten years...

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 02:47 PM
Yes, because the fans I've seen who defend her every mistake with "She couldn't help it!", "She couldn't have known!" or "It wasn't reaaaally that big!" don't exist. In my time here, I've seen plenty of being going to great lengths to argue that Sam almost never does anything wrong, ever.

I am a big carter fan. I thought what she did in 'Gemini' was stupid and short-sighted. I don't ever recall trying

Again, Carter fan's defending her mistakes are no worse than the "but it makes her more human!!!" arguments that the die-hard Weir fans have come up with in response to some very silly decisions she has made in the past. They hae BOTH made their own stupid mistakes at some point if you ask me.

Cautious Explorer
October 13th, 2007, 02:49 PM
Pun intended? :lol:

I can understand where you're coming from, but what she said was true, it's her job now to protect fools from rushing in. And no i'm not saying Shep's a fool, :lol: I'm saying that what she said is what I expect any good leader to say, Hammon has said it, so has Weir, it's a natural course of advents. if she'd turned round to Shep and said, 'Go for it.' Don't you think that would be a bit irresponsible of her as a leader?

Actually, no, the pun wasn't intended. I didn't even notice. :)

It's not Carter's decision that I'm objecting to. They did need to have that conversation. It's just that it was such an obvious rehash of the same scene in Rising.

Maybe I was supposed to be seeing it as a tribute to the earlier show? I don't know. All I could think was that the writers couldn't come up with an original dialogue, so hoped we had all forgotten Rising, or that they paid so little attention that they honestly didn't know they had already done that same scene before.

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 02:51 PM
I think there's a difference here. Shep's team were on a mission and were captured by the wraith on a planet with few wraith. Carter obviously thought there was a good chance of retrieving her people safely. Sheppard has already been refused permission to try and find Weir by the IOA, or at least been given the run around by them. Carter agrees with them that's it's not a viable mission, that it would be a suicide mission, because not only do they not know where Weir is, they also have no way to infiltrate Asura, if that's where they think Weir is, as they did before. Therefore the chances of that mission succeeding are so slight that it's too big a risk - not just in terms of the loss of the team, but the potential that vital information concerning Atlantis' whereabout could be revealed. To me, that part of it makes sense.

Exactly. A rescue mission to a Wraith lab with a dozen Wraith is much more doable than a rescue mission to help someone who is likely already compromised/dead to THE ASURAN CAPITAL PLANET! lol!

Like she said herself. 'If there was even a remote chance...' But I guess some people choose to complete ignore stuff like that so that they can get some ammunition to use against her. Despite the fact that the bullets are made of BS.

Ruined_puzzle
October 13th, 2007, 02:52 PM
I'm sorry, you aren't actually implying that Carter fans would like something Carter did even if they hated it when Weir did the exact same scene are you? That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. I can, however, easily imagine it happening the other way around...


She said PEOPLE, not Carter fans. And actually just by reading this thread YES I have seen it. Weir was so wrong in Rising but now Carter is so right. And I'm not saying Carter fans are saying this, mainly just anybody who wanted doesn't like Weir.

Also you are very rude.

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 02:55 PM
Actually, no, the pun wasn't intended. I didn't even notice. :)

It's not Carter's decision that I'm objecting to. They did need to have that conversation. It's just that it was such an obvious rehash of the same scene in Rising.

Maybe I was supposed to be seeing it as a tribute to the earlier show? I don't know. All I could think was that the writers couldn't come up with an original dialogue, so hoped we had all forgotten Rising, or that they paid so little attention that they honestly didn't know they had already done that same scene before.

:) Personally I thought it was really sweet, and not obvious to everyone. A die hard fan I know never even realised. :lol: So although it was a poignant part of the Rising ep, not everyone will remember it. For me it was like things had come full circle and maybe that scene was a... starting over point? *straws clutching* I don't think it was meant to be a slight on fans, particularly knowing how much we disect an episode and in fact someone has already asked Mr M on his blog. So, maybe you'll get your answer and hopefully some peace of mind. I don't think it was done malisciously and to rub salt in the wounds that Sam was taking over. For me, i'd have been more surprised if she hadn't said those words, or words to that effect. Or maybe the writers didn't think of that at all, and it's just how they felt the scene should go? *shrugs*

Linzi
October 13th, 2007, 02:56 PM
It's a very familiar conversation in the exact same location of the city, which is annoying to me in its own right. Couple that with the newest addition to the cast voicing the lines of the character most recently MIA and its no surprise that some people are bothered by it.

Imagine if Ronon, in the first episode after he joined Atlantis, ran after John, asked to go along on a joy ride in the puddle jumper and offered a turkey sandwich as a bribe. You don't think people would cry foul?

Whatever the writers were trying to sell in this scene was lost on me.
Let's be honest. Some will just be offended every time Carter opens her mouth, because they don't like her and want Weir there in her place, and that's their choice, but some scenes WILL be similar to past one's or some will just think they are because they want them to be, or some won't see the connection too.

I mean, Carter is going to say some phrases Weir said.

"Lower the shield!" Oh my God, Weir used to say that!

"Dial the 'gate!" Nooo, how dare Carter utter the same words as Weir once did.

I'm sure you can get the pattern here?

Carter will sit at the conference table, stand on the balcony and she probably has Weir's old quarters, and she certainly has Weir's old office.

She also speaks English and she's in the Pegasus Galaxy in a command position, Carter is going to say similar things to Weir.



I can't answer what JM was trying to sell in that scene, only he can, but I'd guess it was that Sheppard was asking to go on a rescue mission to try and find Weir, and Carter telling him she wouldn't sanction a mission that was most likely suicidal. I think TPTB thought the fans would want to hear that Weir hadn't been forgotten. I certainly wanted to hear that for continuity's sake.

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 02:57 PM
I am still worried about Rodney´s relationship to her but when I saw Doppleganger...I loved that episode. And Reunion, there were some very bad moments (Rodney´s "I am seeing someone")but it was made very well as a whole.


I wouldn't worry too muck Klen. From what has been said, the "I'm seeing someone" part was kind of like them getting it all out of the way, straight off the bat. In Doppelganger, as you know, there was none of that what so ever. I think it's great that their relationship is going in a new, calmer and more respectful direction:)

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 03:00 PM
It's a very familiar conversation in the exact same location of the city, which is annoying to me in its own right. Couple that with the newest addition to the cast voicing the lines of the character most recently MIA and its no surprise that some people are bothered by it.

Imagine if Ronon, in the first episode after he joined Atlantis, ran after John, asked to go along on a joy ride in the puddle jumper and offered a turkey sandwich as a bribe. You don't think people would cry foul?

Whatever the writers were trying to sell in this scene was lost on me.

That wouldn't have fitted in at all.

This, in my eyes, did. It showed that John cared about Weir still and wants her back, and the fact that Sam said if there was even a remote chance of getting Weir back, she would think about it, while it was quite similar, made a hell of alot of sense in the context it was used.

Though I agree they could have done it in the mess hall or something instead.

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 03:03 PM
Please, do not lump all anti-carter fans in the same group. Not all of us have the same opinions. Thank you. Actually, that's probably a good idea for people on all sides, but I'm only speaking as an anti-Carter person here.

I have seen alot of it from this particular section of fandom recently though. But no, I do agree with you. I shouldn't lump everyone into one basket. Sorry.

majorsal
October 13th, 2007, 03:04 PM
i really missed being able to post here last night (but took care of my squeeing needs on joe's blog :p), but now i can post! ;)

loved 'reunion'!! :D

first off, as a sam fan, i was in hog heaven! my two fave scenes were 1- sam saying goodbye to teal'c/her old life, and 2- her coming through the gate to her new home.

about the arriving scene... i can't tell you what that scene meant to me. it was acknowledgement of sam's command capabilities *finally* being fulfilled. yes, she had command of sg1 in s8, but it was barely acknowledged. she was, basically, co-commanding with mitchell, but that wasn't fair to either one of them. with sam being given atlantis, she's FINALLY getting to use those command skills without them being watered down, shared, or just not acknowledged. so that scene meant a LOT... :)

i also *loved* her scenes with mckay, sheppard, and ronan. with mckay, it was cute and you saw a friendship there. with shep and ronan, you see the struggle the three are going to have and i find that *very* interesting and realistic. bravo to the writers (joe)!

~takes moment to squee about sam's photo of jack in her belongings~

the teyla-ronan fight was funny! :p even blindfolded, teyla was kicking his butt. :D

with ronan's friends... i felt SO sorry for him! and jason played that wonderfully. (((:ronan:))) both my mom and i were a little surprised by the blood and violence in that fighting with friends scene, but i appreciate the more adult take on this very intense scenario. but poor ronan... and when the gang showed up to rescue ronan, i adored that line ronan said to sheppard, when someone said to him 'where's your friends?'. he said, 'right here', indicating the ppl he'd been living and fighting with for two years. they were his 'family' now. :)

overall, a very enjoyable and exciting episode. i've only watched three atlantis eps so far, and it's 3for3 in their quality and enjoyment. i'm a fan! ;) :D




sally :D

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 03:05 PM
She said PEOPLE, not Carter fans. And actually just by reading this thread YES I have seen it. Weir was so wrong in Rising but now Carter is so right. And I'm not saying Carter fans are saying this, mainly just anybody who wanted doesn't like Weir.

Really? I haven't seen that in this thread? I don't think Weir was wrong to say that at all actually. But then, that's just my opinion.


Also you are very rude.

This is a discussion board. really, I'm telling it like I see it. Get used to it.

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 03:08 PM
God, I JUST realised this is the first time we have seen the Asurans/Wraith together!!! I can't believe I didn't twig on earlier...

Does anyone else have an opinion on the... well... disgust the Wraith scientist felt about the Replicators?

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 03:09 PM
I have seen alot of it from this particular section of fandom recently though. But no, I do agree with you. I shouldn't lump everyone into one basket. Sorry.

That's ok. But it might help if you thought of it as coming from particular people rather than certain fandom sections. And please, to everyone....this would be more enjoyable if all sides weren't making attacks, assumptions, and generalizations about each other. And that goes for the anti-carter fans as well as the carter fans. Just a thought. :o

Maybe we need to revive the peace thread again. :D

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 03:11 PM
Let's be honest. Some will just be offended every time Carter opens her mouth, because they don't like her and want Weir there in her place, and that's their choice, but some scenes WILL be similar to past one's or some will just think they are because they want them to be, or some won't see the connection too.

I mean, Carter is going to say some phrases Weir said.

"Lower the shield!" Oh my God, Weir used to say that!

"Dial the 'gate!" Nooo, how dare Carter utter the same words as Weir once did.

I'm sure you can get the pattern here?

Carter will sit at the conference table, stand on the balcony and she probably has Weir's old quarters, and she certainly has Weir's old office.

She also speaks English and she's in the Pegasus Galaxy in a command position, Carter is going to say similar things to Weir.



I can't answer what JM was trying to sell in that scene, only he can, but I'd guess it was that Sheppard was asking to go on a rescue mission to try and find Weir, and Carter telling him she wouldn't sanction a mission that was most likely suicidal. I think TPTB thought the fans would want to hear that Weir hadn't been forgotten. I certainly wanted to hear that for continuity's sake.

:lol: it's true, depending on where you sit on the fence, people (sorry to generalise) will read into it what they want. So something as simple as that scene may have been nothing more than, "i'm sorry, it's too risky." To how dare Sam utter those words. From my perspective, I wouldn't let my lot go off half cocked without some kind of intelligence, plan or forethought. Shep didn't have any of that. He wanted to rescue Weir, and while all very noble, he wasn't thinking as a soldier. He was thinking as someone who'd lost a friend. He made the choice, rightly or wrongly not to use the kill switch on Weir immediately, and maybe he feels responsible and guilty to have put Weir in that position, so wasn't thinking logically. The IOA said no to a rescue, so he tried it with Sam, knowing full well that she adhere's to the same ethos of not leaving anyone behind. And maybe he thought she would sanction it on that basis?


I wouldn't worry too muck Klen. From what has been said, the "I'm seeing someone" part was kind of like them getting it all out of the way, straight off the bat. In Doppelganger, as you know, there was none of that what so ever. I think it's great that their relationship is going in a new, calmer and more respectful direction:)

Most definately more respectful... for now. :lol: though Rodney did take an awfully long look at Sam's pins in that skirt, hehehe.

majorsal
October 13th, 2007, 03:12 PM
(snip) Ronan took on those same 4 people and won. Of course he had RAGE on his side, and the lady did stop the guy from pulling the knife (which is ironic since she’s the one that pulled it one on Teyla). BTW the cutting the girls throat was surprising and odd. It worked to show the insanity but it seemed like an out since she was the most sympathetic to Ronan.


about ronan's friends turning... i got the impression that they'd been not only tortured but brain washed by the wraith. i wonder if they could have been reprogrammed, if they'd survived?...



sally :)

Ruffles
October 13th, 2007, 03:15 PM
Pic is above. :D SO by that logic, Daniel, Teal'c or cassie, or if we're really clutching at straws, the dog could have taken it. :D

It has been established on more than one occasion that SG teams take cameras in the field (Daniel in There But For the Grace of God, McKay in Epiphany, one of the doomed in Phantoms).


And I agree with your point about her being with Ronon and saying she's not Dr Weir. It was a great line, and from the get go, seperated the two leaders. Weir did things her way, and Carter's now doing it hers. Time to throw the old rule book out and start afresh. Before anyone jumps in, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying to forget Weir. I really loved these little references, but Sam is not Elizabeth. Just like Weir was not Hammond, when she replaced him.

I don't think Weir would have agreed to let the Satedans come. And although Ronon might have wanted it, I don't think he really thought she would. Throwing Weir in Carter's face was to test her boundaries and her resolve. Think of him pushing Sheppard in Condemned (I am beat up, tied up and couldn't order a pizza right now if I wanted to, but if you need it to be, yeah, it's an order). Ronon measures resolve and willingness to fight. Sam passed the test. It might not have made him happy, but she was the first person he wanted to see after his team was captured.


I will say that I was stoked when I saw Christopher Judge's name in the credits... I just sat up and shouted "Teal'c!" That was a nice, touching scene with him and Sam. I liked his intentional use of a Teal'cism with the "undomesticated equines" line. It's times like this that we see how much Teal'c has grown in the course of 10 years, that he knows that he was oddly formal in his speech once upon a time. "Nice callback," indeed.

Can someone tell me what ep the "undomesticated equines" is from? I can remember him saying it to O'Neill (ranks right up there with "Medical Attack") but I can't remember when.

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 03:18 PM
Can someone tell me what ep the "undomesticated equines" is from? I can remember him saying it to O'Neill (ranks right up there with "Medical Attack") but I can't remember when.

I think it was Message in a Bottle.

Ruffles
October 13th, 2007, 03:20 PM
God, I JUST realised this is the first time we have seen the Asurans/Wraith together!!! I can't believe I didn't twig on earlier...

Does anyone else have an opinion on the... well... disgust the Wraith scientist felt about the Replicators?

I found it interesting that the Wraith called the replicators (well, replicators for one) an abomination. Isn't that how the Ancients/Asurans describe the Wraith?


about ronan's friends turning... i got the impression that they'd been not only tortured but brain washed by the wraith. i wonder if they could have been reprogrammed, if they'd survived?...



sally :)

The torture certainly led to brainwashing. BTW - watch Common Ground if you want to see what they were doing a little more up close. They might have been reprogrammed, but who would do it? They can't come to Atlantis. They are WAY too much of a security threat now.

*pats Sam's shoulder for not allowing them in at the beginning*

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 03:23 PM
It has been established on more than one occasion that SG teams take cameras in the field (Daniel in There But For the Grace of God, McKay in Epiphany, one of the doomed in Phantoms).

I think FAII was clutching at straws, :lol: Personally I could give a toss where the picture came from, hon. Hopefully this will help FAII gain some understanding.... one can only hope. ;)




I don't think Weir would have agreed to let the Satedans come. And although Ronon might have wanted it, I don't think he really thought she would. Throwing Weir in Carter's face was to test her boundaries and her resolve. Think of him pushing Sheppard in Condemned (I am beat up, tied up and couldn't order a pizza right now if I wanted to, but if you need it to be, yeah, it's an order). Ronon measures resolve and willingness to fight. Sam passed the test. It might not have made him happy, but she was the first person he wanted to see after his team was captured.

Good point there hon, I didn't think of it as a 'test' of sorts, but you could very well be right. And she stood her ground. That was an interesting bit of info there, I wonder if Shep said 'no' so he went over his head?




Can someone tell me what ep the "undomesticated equines" is from? I can remember him saying it to O'Neill (ranks right up there with "Medical Attack") but I can't remember when.

it's from Message in a bottle :D

Linzi
October 13th, 2007, 03:23 PM
about ronan's friends turning... i got the impression that they'd been not only tortured but brain washed by the wraith. i wonder if they could have been reprogrammed, if they'd survived?...



sally :)
Do you mean reprogrammed not to serve the wraith? So, sort of deprogrammed?

I wondered that too. (If that's what you mean here.) I think they could, but who knows what those multiple feedings and gifts of life has done to them?

I wondered if, in some way, multiple feedings and life restoration in some way chemically alters the human brain? - oh goodness, I know I shouldn't say this with some hostility to all things SG1 around, but I can't think of another comparison - but like the Goa'uld sarcophagi? You lose who you are and have an addiction to something?

I know that Ronon's friends became traitors, but possibly they couldn't help it? Obviously two of them didn't give in and were killed, as mentioned in the episode, so maybe the three Satedan's here were weaker mentally? So if there is an addictive element here, perhaps they could have been weaned off it?

Also, Tyre. He walked away. To what? Will he go back to wraith worshipping, or be on the run?

prion
October 13th, 2007, 03:33 PM
Oh, loved the guy swooning over Teyla for the ‘arranged marriage.’

Teyla’s new leather look is, er, interesting. What’s with the snakeskin-like collar? Me thinks the new leather look is to hide Rachel’s pregnancy, but anyway, loved the part where the three “loudmouthed drunkards” had her pinned to the bar, ready to filet her, when Ronon saves the day, only to realize these ruffians are his FRIENDS! Just the look on Teyla’s face of utter disgust as they throw themselves all over Ronon is priceless.

Meanwhile, poor Radek is probably getting an ulcer as Rodney tells him he thinks he’s gonna be the new head of Atlantis. “Very scary.” Talk about delusions of grandeur, which promptly deflates like a stuck balloon when he finds Sheppard talking to their new boss- Carter.

My biggest gripe about the Sam-Teal’c scene. Could they have shellaced her bangs any more to her head? Yeah, sorry, but I was hoping she’d trim ‘em a little. I don’t begrudge her the crying a little (Sam is the only character in SG1 who is allowed to do that, after all). A bit schmaltzy but the scene was brief so no problem. Teal’c looks like he’s been putting oil in his hair ;)

Ah, so obviously they have enough ZPMs to go back and forth I guess. So, does that mean they’ve got one back on earth? Or did they pull it from the Daedalus or Apollo just for that occasion?

“That son of a…” loved how Rodney got ticked off when Sheppard left the fruitbasket after telling Rodney how tacky it would be to give Carter such a welcoming gift. However, I hope this is the conclusion of McKay’s ‘unrequited lust’ for Carter as although in the few episodes he did in SG1, it was funny, but as an overall thread though a series, it could be deathly boring and it does nothing but regress Rodney.

Anybody else wonder why Ronon had to be introduced to Sam? I mean, he was in “Lifeline”. Didn’t she meet the rest of the team while she was there? Enjoyed the conflict between Ronon and Sam and the fact that well, at least we got some mention of Weir (which yes, I think the show needed as far too often the producers of this show and others kill off a character and forget about ‘em the next day).

Sheppard was on the ‘short list’ to be commander. Interesting. The rescue mission conversation seemed very similar to “Rising” when Sheppard told Weir he was going to rescue Sumner (even to the point it was done on the balcony). I could see Sheppard being okay with not being in command, what with the politics and whatnot. I like how Sheppard still thinks Elizabeth is alive and worth rescuing. And I predict Sheppard isn’t going to come up with a brilliant plan to go rescue Weir as, well, Rodney would have come up with it already, and TPTB had decided to remove Weir, so…. but unlike in “Rising,” Sheppard also had progressed enough to know that he couldn’t go off with the ‘don’t leave anyone behind motto’ as his motivation to off to enact a rescue.

Oh yup, Rachel’s showing! ;) Saw that in the sparring scene, which was a great character piece for both Teyla and Ronon. I liked that we got a little more insight into Teyla and her leadership skills and even self-doubts, which we haven’t really had voiced before.

Okay, the Satedan crowd mentioning the replicator code being cracked is like someone saying “oh, they’ve got your password to your bank account.” ACK! So, they’re lured in (obviously). Ooh, Sheppard did not look happy when Ronon said once the operation was over, he’d be leaving Atlantis.

Whoa, Ronon’s quarters. We finally get to see it. Must go back and see what’s there. Ah, low bed (quite low), candles (I’m amazed nobody’s burned down something yet in Atlantis), the painting, more candles, some sticks and stuff in the corner, weapons.

The discussion between Ronon and Carter was interesting, but I don’t know, it was sorta like a pep talk, at least it sounded sorta like it to me.

Okay, I quibbled about it for years on SG1, so why stop now? ;) Sam’s hair still looks sorta ratty. It’s a combination of just too much hairspray and strategically mussed hair. Oh well. Probably not going to change. And the uniform looked, er, um, cough, a little tight. I really don’t care for the new uniforms with the darts and color slashes and funnel sleeves. Too retro sixties scifi. Yeah, I like the old uniforms a lot better. Personal preference. I’ll stop complaining when they make new uniforms for season 5 ;)

Leave it to McKay to piss off the big burly Satedan with that remark in the jumper (“you’re amateurs”). Being a Sheppard fan, loved how he just coolly went into the wraith lair, gun out in one hand and LSD in the other. Now we know the wraith have their own version of transporters (did they have them before? I really don’t recall ‘em). Best part of ensuing disaster was Ronon’s look of longing as Sheppard, McKay and Teyla go one way, and he stands there, watching, and then, as he follows the Satedans. Then Shep et. al. run into Wraith and machine gun fire ensues and Ronon does not hesitate for a second to run to the rescue. Yes! Ronon’s a man of few words, basically, and he even though he had a lot more dialogue in this episode than in most of season 3(!), he can still say a lot with expressions as well.

We can see changes in Sheppard. A year ago he would have tried to rescue the “vending machine” folk but now knows it’s impossible. Loved how Rodney finally got the door open but not in time as Sheppard gets stunned. Very cool that he was smart enough to hide in a cocoon! But then the Satedans stun the poor guy. Just can’t win. And wow, does that wraith ever have puffy white hair! Geez, high humidity inside that ship or auditioning for the haunted castle?

Loved how Ronon just slid in through the gate and went off running to see Carter and why on earth was Zelenka standing right in the line of fire?? Hmm. Especially since there were two armed soldiers standing right there, even more out of the line of fire than him.

The jail scene. Sheppard just recovers from being stunned and then gets shot again. Nice whump factor J “Be strong, Rodney,” encourages Teyla but the scientist is obviously heading toward cracking like an egg as he’s spending all his time talking a mile a minute. And wasn’t wraith décor more blue last year? It’s sorta reddish-orange now, unless it’s just a different group, different decorators.

Everytime I see a flashbang used on SGA I’m going to go “it’s not like that.” I only say that because I recently got the chance to see one in action by a SWAT team. They’re not so much blinding as DEAFENING. It’s like a cherry bomb. KABOOM! Really startles you.

Oh wait, it’s Carter’s dominatrix/biker chick black leather outfit from the promo photos! Couldn’t tell at first as it was dark and she’s got a vest on over that and well, that’s one way to sweat off the pounds. Sheppard’s still got the best and most practical uniform.

Anyway, not sure why Carter went on the mission – she’s the boss – barely been there a day and she’s running off to do rescues? Would have made more sense for folks who have previously been in Wraith infested installations (like Lorne and other marines).

Poor Ronon. His good buddy Satedans are Wraith worshippers but he’s still willing to let them escape, give them a chance. Must admit the “we’ll settle this like true Satedans” stuff makes me wonder how the Satedans lasted as long as they did (but then I wonder that about the Jaffa too – they’re just as inane in fighting) Good fight scene though and I guess there’s the chance we could run across Tyre again (well, probably as much chance as running across Ford).

Did Ronon’s response to Carter’s “Ronon, where are you friends?” He walks past her then looks at Sheppard and McKay and says “They’re right here.” Oh man, we need some fanfic to wrap up that.

Rodney purloined Ronon’s painting?? Somehow I can’t see Rodney liking that style of painting…

------------------------------

Overall, I enjoyed the episode. It was good, like a B, but not great, like an A. At times a few things seemed rushed, and Carter seemed a bit too much of a ‘newbie’ on the city for being chosen to take it over. I mean in that she was there during “Lifeline” and unless she packed up and left a few hours later, which we know she didn’t, she had to have seen the city during the day and the “this is Ronon” thing was weird. But anyway…I really liked Ronon in this episode; he got to do more than just shoot people and we got to see him longing for something else besides killing Wraith. Friends and ties back to a life he’d lost.

I would like to know how much time had elapsed between LIFELINE and this episode. It seems like quite a bit of time elapsed, as the IOA was stonewalling Sheppard’s requests to go rescue Weir, and nobody seemed particularly frazzled or jumpy (which you’d think they’d be after the trauma of LIFELINE). Which, I would suspect, meant that Sheppard was in temporary command of the city for a while. I also suspect a fair amount of time must have passed as Carter is calling Sheppard “John.” And the wraith-replicators are going after each other.

So, did the one lone replicator guy decimate all the wraith on the ship? Did they rescue any of the vending machine folk?

Noticed that Ronon called Sheppard ‘John’ again (first time was in “Vengeance”). Sheppard called Carter “Colonel" (as I know this has been a topic of discussion on other boards)

Since when did Zelenka get the gene to activate the life signs detector???


Not to infect this thread, but here are the facts about that picture in Sam's luggage:
* Said picture is a screen capture fro "Singularity" from season 1.
* The picture is 10 years old and Jack isn't even looking into the camera.
* Sam brought it along.

My theory is that Stalker-Sam took it with a stealth camera hidden in her hair.

Bwahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, the folks on the set still don’t get it – fans see PR shots all the time and recognize ‘em, plus we also sit there and go ‘how on earth did they get that photo’? (particularly the one of Beckett and McKay from “Duet”).

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 03:37 PM
I found it interesting that the Wraith called the replicators (well, replicators for one) an abomination. Isn't that how the Ancients/Asurans describe the Wraith?

I can't really remember, I vaguely recall something like that though... I find this revelation very interesting indeed:) They are not only fighting with each other for survival/to become the dominant race, they actually loathe each other! IMO this gives a bit more depth to the whole thing.

Arlessiar
October 13th, 2007, 03:39 PM
I noticed Carter called McKay "Rodney" in this ep. I know, usually she says 'McKay', but didn't she also call him 'Rodney' before once or twice, maybe in "M&MM" or "PP"? I'm not sure anymore, but I think I noticed her calling him by his first name before - in an non-AU ep.


I was actually p.o.-ed when Teyla, McKay, and Sheppard ran one way, and Ronon ran off with the others. I thought, "Now, who's watching the rear?" You could feel the breeze, like something was missing. It was a nice touch. I thought the same when I saw the team running through the hallways without Ronon, something was missing, and like you I also thought "who's watching their back?" - it felt downright dangerous!


We got some words from Teyla about her people, which makes me wonder how she felt about what Ronon went through. I still don't really get it - do we know where exactly the Athosians are now? I know that they are not on the Atlantis planet anymore but where are they? I kinda lost track as they've - if at all! - only been mentioned randomly, as they seem to rather unimportant now.
Teyla left them behind, but when exactly did she do that? Does she refer to First Strike/Adrift or the fact that she hasn't really been with her people since The Return, or to the fact that she joined the humans at all? Did the Athosians chose a new leader, what do you think?

Bye, A.

Pegasus_SGA
October 13th, 2007, 03:40 PM
Do you mean reprogrammed not to serve the wraith? So, sort of deprogrammed?

I wondered that too. (If that's what you mean here.) I think they could, but who knows what those multiple feedings and gifts of life has done to them?

I wondered if, in some way, multiple feedings and life restoration in some way chemically alters the human brain? - oh goodness, I know I shouldn't say this with some hostility to all things SG1 around, but I can't think of another comparison - but like the Goa'uld sarcophagi? You lose who you are and have an addiction to something?

I know that Ronon's friends became traitors, but possibly they couldn't help it? Obviously two of them didn't give in and were killed, as mentioned in the episode, so maybe the three Satedan's here were weaker mentally? So if there is an addictive element here, perhaps they could have been weaned off it?

Also, Tyre. He walked away. To what? Will he go back to wraith worshipping, or be on the run?

I'd love to see the 'gift of life' explored a bit more, and how it affects a person's body chemistry, and if there's like a residual something that lies dormant until it's reactived. That could be quite interesting. I miss that it wasn't explored more after CG, and I hope this opens up the door for more Evil Shep:D I'm like Oliver Twist... I just want more. :o


Oh, loved the guy swooning over Teyla for the ‘arranged marriage.’



My mom would have liked him! :lol:

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 03:41 PM
it's from Message in a bottle :D

:lol: I caught that. ;)


I found it interesting that the Wraith called the replicators (well, replicators for one) an abomination. Isn't that how the Ancients/Asurans describe the Wraith?

I think it was. And yes, that's very interesting that both sides view each other the same way.

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Ah, so obviously they have enough ZPMs to go back and forth I guess. So, does that mean they’ve got one back on earth? Or did they pull it from the Daedalus or Apollo just for that occasion?

Midway Station:)

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 03:50 PM
I would like to know how much time had elapsed between LIFELINE and this episode. It seems like quite a bit of time elapsed, as the IOA was stonewalling Sheppard’s requests to go rescue Weir, and nobody seemed particularly frazzled or jumpy (which you’d think they’d be after the trauma of LIFELINE). Which, I would suspect, meant that Sheppard was in temporary command of the city for a while. I also suspect a fair amount of time must have passed as Carter is calling Sheppard “John.” And the wraith-replicators are going after each other.

Me too... I think it must have been a number of weeks, perhapse even months. But then, could they have gone that long without a leader? It's possible John was filling in?

prion
October 13th, 2007, 03:57 PM
Comments culled from
http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/2007/10/october-13-2007.html

There’s more, so feel free to visit blog and come back.


We learn that Carter will be assuming command: A number of fans were upset that McKay seemed far too cavalier given that they had just lost Weir in the last episode. The impression is that the events of Lifeline just happened a day or two ago and he’s already forgotten about her. Not true. In my mind, it’s been several weeks since the events of Lifelife and while the loss of Weir still resonates (as demonstrated in some later scenes), some time has passed. Presumably, Sheppard had assumed interim command for the expedition (since our standing enemies, the wraith and the replicators, have had their hands full fighting each other - as Sheppard makes mention when we first glimpse him) and all are anxiously awaiting the appointment of their new leader. Given what we know of Rodney, it makes sense that he would consider himself a perfect candidate, even the obvious choice for the position, not out of sheer selfishness or ego, but because he honestly feels he is the best person to contribute and help out in a big way.

>>>Ah, see, it wasn’t demonstrated/shown that several weeks had passed. A simple throwaway line of “it’s been over a month since we landed here” would have been nice. However, I see this massive chunk of time as ripe fodder for fanfic writers, but that’s it.


Carter arrives on Atlantis: In the original draft, and even in the shooting script, Carter’s speech was somewhat longer. In the original, Carter references Weir: “#Today, I assume command of the Atlantis expedition and, although I am honored to accept the appointment, I do so with mixed feelings because I come to you under very difficult circumstances. You've all been through a lot these past few weeks, suffered some significant losses including that of Dr. Elizabeth Weir. (beat) It hasn't been easy for you and having someone, especially an outsider, suddenly step in here and take command may be a little hard to accept. I understand that. Nevertheless, I want you to know that I've come here, committed to Atlantis, the expedition, but most of all, committed to each and every one of you. And I look forward to working with you all.” There were some objections to the reference in the room and, after much discussion, the reference was dropped.

>>>Too bad….


McKay drops in on Carter, as does Ronon: I didn’t want Carter to have an easy time of it, so right off the bat I have her butt heads with Ronon - and not back down. Also, given McKay’s “thing” for Carter in the past, I felt it imperative that it be addressed so that both characters could move on since the Rodney McKay of today has really grown from the Rodney McKay from Redemption I and II. By coming in and making reference to the “unrequited lust thing that’s been hanging over our head for what seems like forever”, it is Rodney’s way of saying “Hey, I know I had a thing for you in the past and that’s made things awkward for us, but I want you to know that things are going to be different now.” Rodney is delusional. He knows that the “unrequited lust thing” only went one way, but his ego won’t let him actually come out and admit it. And so, he dances and awkward dance around the fact and, in so doing, still gets the point across.

>>>So hopefully it’s all said and done and they won’t drag it out again.


The Carter-Sheppard balcony scene: As some of you noticed, yes, this was a call back to the scene in Rising. The intent of the scene was to demonstrate that despite the circumstances, Elizabeth is still on their minds and they are not giving up on her. It was also an opportunity to demonstrate to not only contrast the differences, but highlight the similarities between the two strong women. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.

>>> Yeah, but it’s still on the balcony ;)


Carter pays Ronon a visit: There was more to this scene off the top with direct references to some of the items Ronon has in his rooms (including that painting), all connections to his past. I’ll include the excerpt in tomorrow’s blog entry.

>>> Should be interesting to hear, but I wish it could have been addressed on the show.


The op goes awry: Ah, the best laid plans… Lots of fun with the firefight, but my favorite moments here are the small ones. The team splitting up and Ronon watching Shep and co. head off until Ara snaps him back. Ronon taking off to back up the Atlantis team the second he hears gunfire and realizes they’ve been engaged. In the original draft, in keeping with the gag from the previous scene, after stunning Rakai, McKay glowers down at McKay and mutters: “Who’s Hootie now?”.

>>>Thank god for changing lines ;)


Carter leads the rescue op: Not such a stretch given her experience with SG-1, what’s at stake, and the fact that the chain of command kicks in on Atlantis (as it did whenever Weir went off-world).

>>>Hmm,, but Hammond never went off world to rescue Jack's team ;)


Carter leads the rescue op into the facility: Speaking of growing, check out our little Radek all grown up and casting anxiety aside to help some friends in need. By the way, what he is clutching is not a wraith detector but a device (not unlike similar devices used on SG-1) designed to detect and offer an analysis of energy readings.

>>>Hmm, no one said it wasa wraith detector ;) but a life signs detector, which is Ancient. They have devices like this at SG1???


Sheppard pays Carter a visit: Another scene cut for time. Tomorrow.

>>>Damn.

SGFerrit
October 13th, 2007, 03:58 PM
To those who commented on the Wraith wig (I also noticed it!), it seems Joe Mallozzi agrees shares your thoughts:


Finally, one more thing that comes to mind is that damn fright wig the wraith is wearing. Every time he appeared onscreen, I’d since and refer to him as Granny Wraith.

:D

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 03:59 PM
Everyone should go check out Joe Mallozzi's blog entry, which tonight is completely devoted to talking about Reunion. :) Looks like he agrees with everyone about the wig -

EDIT: And Prion and SGFerrit beat me to it. :D

Skydiver
October 13th, 2007, 04:02 PM
The topic, folks, is REUNION, not other fans

Keep it on topic or keep it out of this thread

prion
October 13th, 2007, 04:06 PM
Me too... I think it must have been a number of weeks, perhapse even months. But then, could they have gone that long without a leader? It's possible John was filling in?

Mallozzi said in his latest blog entry "In my mind, it’s been several weeks since the events of Lifelife and while the loss of Weir still resonates (as demonstrated in some later scenes), some time has passed. Presumably, Sheppard had assumed interim command for the expedition "

So, he's telling us that, but they didn't show us that in the episode, but it also demonstrates Sheppard is definitely capable of command as well.

Jonzey
October 13th, 2007, 04:08 PM
Right, I didn't have a problem with Carter going on the mission. To me it was like a rite of passage, a way to show the people in Atlantis that she actually cared and was on their side. I don't remember the exact quote but I think it was Landry who said in SG-1 at one point about how a General should always do what he asks of his men (something like that). It works with Colonels too, cos while most of the main Atlantis characters know Sam, all the rest probably only know her by reputation, and a good way to win them over is to prove she's not afraid to get her hands dirty if it comes to saving lives.

Arlessiar
October 13th, 2007, 04:08 PM
Vase: This is my silly nitpick. When Rodney brought Sam flowers she just happened to have a vase sitting there ready and waiting I agree, that's a weird coincidence!
But I loved how Rodney literally threw the flowers into the vase after he saw the fruit basket! :D

I really don’t care for the new uniforms with the darts and color slashes and funnel sleeves. Too retro sixties scifi. Yeah, I like the old uniforms a lot better. Personal preference. I know the actors requested these new uniforms, but I myself don't like them that much. I also think they look too Trek-ish. :D ;)

They all wore the new clothes for the first time in this ep. Wonder when that stuff arrived in Atlantis. Guess it came by spaceship. Maybe a mail-order? :D *g*
No, seriously, I wonder who in the SGC decided that the SGA teams need new uniforms yet again when they've just lost their leader and most certainly have other stuff to worry about... but I guess that can't be answered since it's been a real life decision that had nothing to do with the fictional world.
On the show it does seem a bit weird now though that they've changed the uniforms the third time now in a little over three years.


And wow, does that wraith ever have puffy white hair! Geez, high humidity inside that ship or auditioning for the haunted castle? He probably just forgot his conditioner when he had a shower in the morning. :D


Rodney purloined Ronon’s painting?? Somehow I can’t see Rodney liking that style of painting… That and I also don't see him as a thief. He's thoughtless and insensitive sometimes, yes, but he's not a thief or an emotionless idiot. I still like to think that he simply wanted the pic so that he has something to remind him of his friend when he's gone.

ETA: Can't wait to read what JM wants to say about this (and other items in Ronon's room).


Since when did Zelenka get the gene to activate the life signs detector???
That must be a mistake by TPTB (or Rodney/Radek/scientist X figured out how non-gene-folks can use them), because RZ doesn't have the gene and he tried the gene therapy before "Hot Zone" and it didn't work.

ETA: Saw Mallozzi's post about this. Ok, so it's not a LSD but something Radek can actually use.
Which brings me to something else I dislike: Handheld scanners! Carson used one in "Runner", Keller used one in "Adrift", now Radek uses one too... somehow that's way too much like Star Trek for me. Makes things too easy.


Bye, A.

creed462
October 13th, 2007, 04:08 PM
Really good ep.
All showed improvement, loved the fight scene between Teyla and Ronnon

Ruffles
October 13th, 2007, 04:11 PM
Anybody else wonder why Ronon had to be introduced to Sam? I mean, he was in “Lifeline”. Didn’t she meet the rest of the team while she was there? Enjoyed the conflict between Ronon and Sam and the fact that well, at least we got some mention of Weir (which yes, I think the show needed as far too often the producers of this show and others kill off a character and forget about ‘em the next day).

Not necessarily. Theoretically, she was there a really short time to find the city and help them land. Then back home she went. Again in theory (although we know better) she was just one of the crew from the Apollo. Ronon may have been assigned to help clear debris or get the expedition members that had been sent to the Apollo situated.


Noticed that Ronon called Sheppard ‘John’ again (first time was in “Vengeance”). Sheppard called Carter “Colonel" (as I know this has been a topic of discussion on other boards)

Actually, it was Sunday (trying to get out of playing golf).


>>>Hmm,, but Hammond never went off world to rescue Jack's team ;)

He did in Prisoners. Not with guns blazing but he went off-world to effect their rescue.

I thought sufficient time between Lifeline and Reunion was indicated by the little things: John mentioning the IOA and red tape; a decision finally being made on a new leader; there having been time to make a short list; the window that was blown out in First Strike having been replaced; Rodney and Radek knowing the criteria of the person being picked for the job; new uniforms.

justhere1971
October 13th, 2007, 04:11 PM
Mallozzi said in his latest blog entry "In my mind, it’s been several weeks since the events of Lifelife and while the loss of Weir still resonates (as demonstrated in some later scenes), some time has passed. Presumably, Sheppard had assumed interim command for the expedition "

So, he's telling us that, but they didn't show us that in the episode, but it also demonstrates Sheppard is definitely capable of command as well.

Did I imagine that in his dialog to Carter, he mentions that he's been looking?

Linzi
October 13th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Everyone should go check out Joe Mallozzi's blog entry, which tonight is completely devoted to talking about Reunion. :) Looks like he agrees with everyone about the wig -

EDIT: And Prion and SGFerrit beat me to it. :D
:lol: If only we could have similar entries for each episode from each writer.

Interesting that the Rising scene was intentionally harkened back to. I honestly didn't notice :o

Joe F. was responsible for the second stunning. Go Joe! ;)

Missing scenes we're going to find out about? I can't wait.

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 04:15 PM
Also, given McKay’s “thing” for Carter in the past, I felt it imperative that it be addressed so that both characters could move on since the Rodney McKay of today has really grown from the Rodney McKay from Redemption I and II. By coming in and making reference to the “unrequited lust thing that’s been hanging over our head for what seems like forever”, it is Rodney’s way of saying “Hey, I know I had a thing for you in the past and that’s made things awkward for us, but I want you to know that things are going to be different now.” Rodney is delusional. He knows that the “unrequited lust thing” only went one way, but his ego won’t let him actually come out and admit it. And so, he dances and awkward dance around the fact and, in so doing, still gets the point across.

I'm not quite sure here, but I think this means that my interpretation of the scene is correct? :D That Rodney's "unrequited lust" line was referring to himself and not Carter? Oh, and judging from the context, I'm assuming there was a typo, and JM meant to say "Rodney is NOT delusional." :)

Uber
October 13th, 2007, 04:16 PM
Comments culled from
http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/2007/10/october-13-2007.html

There’s more, so feel free to visit blog and come back.

>>>Ah, see, it wasn’t demonstrated/shown that several weeks had passed. A simple throwaway line of “it’s been over a month since we landed here” would have been nice. However, I see this massive chunk of time as ripe fodder for fanfic writers, but that’s it.Actually, I felt Shep's comments about how they should have mounted a rescue sooner and that the IOA's been stalling them sufficiently suggested that some time has passed...but I can see how it might not have been as overt of a reference as some people might have preferred.
>>>Too bad… I agree. I think it would have been great for her to acknowledge what they went through and what they've lost while still looking ahead to the future.
>>>So hopefully it’s all said and done and they won’t drag it out again.That's the sense I had. Carter's in a new position...a position of leadership...and therefore her relationships with people who worked beside her in the past and now are under her HAVE to change. In McKay's instance, they have to move beyond that issue. And while I imagine there will be instances where they butt heads and that competitive nature they have toward each other springs forth, it won't nearly be as often or with the same level as before.
>>> Yeah, but it’s still on the balcony ;)And? LOL I think that was the point of it...to show the parallels as well as the differences between those moments.
>>> Should be interesting to hear, but I wish it could have been addressed on the show.Yeah...I too hate it when character bits get cut for time.
>>>Thank god for changing lines ;)Hey! I thought it was cute...although I'm surprised McKay would know enough about pop culture to know who Hootie and the Blowfish are (were).

Well...okay. I liked the revised version more. ;)
>>>Hmm,, but Hammond never went off world to rescue Jack's team ;)Actually he did. A couple times. Most notably in Into the Fire.
>>>Hmm, no one said it wasa wraith detector ;) but a life signs detector, which is Ancient. They have devices like this at SG1???I know Sam has used detection devices in the past that were of earth so why wouldn't they use them in Atlantis?
>>>Damn.Indeed.

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 04:20 PM
Actually he did. A couple times. Most notably in Into the Fire.

I was thinking about that one myself.

Uber
October 13th, 2007, 04:27 PM
Mallozzi said in his latest blog entry "In my mind, it’s been several weeks since the events of Lifelife and while the loss of Weir still resonates (as demonstrated in some later scenes), some time has passed. Presumably, Sheppard had assumed interim command for the expedition "

So, he's telling us that, but they didn't show us that in the episode, but it also demonstrates Sheppard is definitely capable of command as well.Plus there's the fact he was considered for the role of taking over command of the city. If they didn't feel he could command, he most certainly wouldn't have been on any short list.

I loved his response though and it matches what we've been saying all along...that he'd not want to deal with the IOA and he felt sorry for whoever did. I think he's quite happy going offworld and kicking butt and letting other people, who are able to stomach the IOA, do it instead of him...therefore relieving him of the worry of having to deal with that hassle.

DeRoest
October 13th, 2007, 04:30 PM
why does it feel to me that Ronan and his "friends" seem like a cross between surfers and klingons?
:ronan: "Qapla', dude!"

Skydiver
October 13th, 2007, 04:31 PM
And wow, does that wraith ever have puffy white hair! Geez, high humidity inside that ship or auditioning for the haunted castle?

He probably just forgot his conditioner when he had a shower in the morning.


Too many skinny peggy galaxy people. He's got a lack of fat in his diet so his hair is dry :)

Sweetsong
October 13th, 2007, 04:32 PM
This might have already been asked and I missed it, but I'm confused over something. One of Ronan's satedans friends said something along the lines of it not being everyday that someone can get an invite to Atlantis. Now if these Satedans were working for the wraith, are you saying the wraith knew to some extent that Atlantis was not destroyed and were just letting them be?

AGateFan
October 13th, 2007, 04:37 PM
This might have already been asked and I missed it, but I'm confused over something. One of Ronan's satedans friends said something along the lines of it not being everyday that someone can get an invite to Atlantis. Now if these Satedans were working for the wraith, are you saying the wraith knew to some extent that Atlantis was not destroyed and were just letting them be?
Well, if they captured a replicator and are disecting his code then I suppose they could know all kinds of things.

Although oddly, Did anyone else get the feeling that this wraith really had no clue about replicators except how to upload a program that someone else created...and when it didnt work he was at a loss..... He kinda reminded me of some helpdesk calls I have taken in the past. People may do A, B, C per instructions but if it didnt work they had no clue what else to even try.

garhkal
October 13th, 2007, 04:38 PM
I am very pleased with this episode.

* The teyla/ronan talk.
* The Carter/Rodney, and Carter/Ronan.
* The battle between Ronan and the other Satedans.
* The Carter/teal'c talk.
10/10

Agreed with those parts. I loved that fight ronon had with his 3 former friends.. ANd was surprised when the tall male sliced the throat of his female comrade.... I DID hate it though when Ronon said to the other one "Is this enough killing"? You would have thought with his honor code he would be gunning for him.


I loved the beginning where McKay thought that he was getting command of Atlantis!

That and the whole talk with sam over the comm line was funny as heck... Though i do wonder why rodney would think he would be next in line over shep or someone else like cadwell to take over... must hav been his ego.


[Ronon's got to live with that new tattoo from his "friends" now, wonder how he will handle that? For those of you who don't know, that Tattoo is a family crest of Jason Momoa's and they wanted to weave it into an episode.

Wow.. Did not know that. Thanhks for the info vala.


I like the replicator ignoring SGA…I saw it coming a mile away and can’t figure out why McKay and Carter wouldn’t. I mean the reps are now programmed to take out wraith, there would be no point to take out SGA at that point. I do like getting the knowledge that the Wraith had reprogrammed the reps a long time ago and are not sure how to do it again if their initial program doesn’t work.

To me that was a BIG twist.. Especially after having all those bullets get shot through him..


Sheppard was good but gave up on the Weir begging uncharacteristically early for him. I expected more complaining. Not that I am upset with it. I like Carters “give me a plan that could work and I will think about it” and I was happy Shep saw the logic in it.

Agreed. It did seem like he gave up a little too early... BUT then agian maybe that is showing that he has matured some from the whinny one he used to be.


-I also had a hard time buying that the only reason Shep hasn't gone after Weir is because the IOA and red tape...

That is very true... From past experience with shep, ti would seem that he would brazenly go off world to save someone else.


Am I right in stating Satedans cannot be fed off by Wraith, which is why Ronan was turned into a Runner to begin with?

If that is true, big continuity error.

If not, then I misunderstood.


No cause the wraith fed off of others of his kind before... The wraith could not feed off of ronon only... Or so it seemed from back story.


The scene with Teal'c was wonderful. As Vabi said *waves at Vabs!* the look on Teyla's face as Ronon reunites with his friends was great. Nice tie-in to Trinity (she's with him when he finds out he's not the only Satedan alive).

Agreed, i loved how they went back to a prior ep, like they did in SG1... And tealc's farewell for sam was well worth the wait.\


I love that although Ronon had made his decision to leave, as soon as he heard gunfire, he didn't hesitate to run toward his team. It seems his decision wasn't quite as final as he had thought. I'm of two minds about having the Satedans be Wraith worshippers. On one hand, it makes for great Ronon angst and helps explain how some humans could become worshippers. On the other hand, I would have liked to see him actually make the hard choice between the Satedans and the Lantians

That is a good point. It did show he was still uncertain of his ties to the lanteans, but maybe that might have been due to carters talk with him before they went off on the raid. As to the satedans being wraith worshipers, i actually had no problem with that part. Heck i loved how Tyre explained why they went that way.



Ronon's painting reminds me of a bad heavy metal album cover. ;)


Same here, though i would have loved to know who the painting was of.


That guys been in a ton of low budget martial arts movies...and I think he was the crow (in the TV series, not the movie).

Yup he has... Though my fave of his earlier movies was the Capoeria one, Only the Strong... Loved it, as it was my first exposure to that strange but yet mezmerizing martial art..


Excellent episode. I really enjoyed it.

Loved the beginning with Rodney thinking he was going to get the leadership role, loved Sheppard swiping the discarded fruit and giving it to Carter! I'm still chuckling about that now! :) Loved Rodney's awkward speech to Carter too. I cringed for him!

I hated that fruit thing, as it imo showed that shep is a back stabber of sorts... He tells rodney it would be a stupid present but when rodney gives it up he then presents it as a gift... And i do agree, that was a great scene between Sam and Rod..


I liked the tension between Carter and Ronon almost like her having to prove herself to him when they went off world. )

That was a great point of tension. Especially when Ronon said to sam that "Dr wier would have trusted me.."


I still don't get the connection bewteen Carter and Ancient technology. The Ancient technology she has ben exposed to in the Milky Way she usually has not been able to master. Could you please explain?

Neither do i. Heck i would place either Zelenka or rodney way ahead of her in that department, and i might even place them ahead of her in the Replicator teck department... Especially afte what rodney did in Lifelines..



That was a great scene for Teyla, we'd heard her say previously the reason's why she was in Atlantis instead of with her people. But it was nice to see the writers exploring her leadership skills and her feelings again. Something i'm looking forward to quite about this season is to see more of Teyla and the skills we saw early on, and here's hoping this is the start of things to come.


That it was... I truely felt for her trying to get Ronon to stay with the team...


I will continue this next post... as this is a long one.

prion
October 13th, 2007, 04:43 PM
Actually, I felt Shep's comments about how they should have mounted a rescue sooner and that the IOA's been stalling them sufficiently suggested that some time has passed...but I can see how it might not have been as overt of a reference as some people might have preferred.I agree. I think it would have been great for her to acknowledge what they went through and what they've lost while still looking ahead to the future..

Their reference of time on SG1/SGA can sometimes be sooo vague. Say for a casual viewer (and I've got one in the house) who went "huh? wasn't weir dead or something last week?", yes, need a little more. yeah, I'm relaying another person's comments as well (not a fan, casual viewer).


I'm not quite sure here, but I think this means that my interpretation of the scene is correct? :D That Rodney's "unrequited lust" line was referring to himself and not Carter? Oh, and judging from the context, I'm assuming there was a typo, and JM meant to say "Rodney is NOT delusional." :)

Yes, McKay is delusional about himself. ("Rodney is delusional. He knows that the “unrequited lust thing” only went one way, but his ego won’t let him actually come out and admit it.")


Did I imagine that in his dialog to Carter, he mentions that he's been looking?

Checked the balcony scene and it sounds like he's wanted to look but the IOA, being the bureaucrats they are, won't allow it.


Not necessarily. Theoretically, she was there a really short time to find the city and help them land. Then back home she went. Again in theory (although we know better) she was just one of the crew from the Apollo. Ronon may have been assigned to help clear debris or get the expedition members that had been sent to the Apollo situated.

He did in Prisoners. Not with guns blazing but he went off-world to effect their rescue.

I thought sufficient time between Lifeline and Reunion was indicated by the little things: John mentioning the IOA and red tape; a decision finally being made on a new leader; there having been time to make a short list; the window that was blown out in First Strike having been replaced; Rodney and Radek knowing the criteria of the person being picked for the job; new uniforms.

Don't think the docs would allow Ronon to do heavy lifting with the hole in his shoulder (don't get me started on the medical stuff <G>).

Eh, I'd still like a little more definition (see above).

Please, don't remind me of the new uniforms. Yech. They're not flattering uniforms. In fact, I'd say they look more uncomfortable as they're more form fitting (aka tighter) and tight uniforms, unless they're like spandex, will suck in a combat situation (ditto with leather unless it's likea bomber jacket but Sam's dominatrix/biker outfit is pretty tight so I'd thik it would be uncomfortable).

Hammond only went through the gate once, yup.. He didn't make it a habit (and yes, becuase the writers extol the virtues of Carter all the time, it wouldn't surprise me if she went through the gate alot). Landry went through once or twice too.

prion
October 13th, 2007, 04:47 PM
Plus there's the fact he was considered for the role of taking over command of the city. If they didn't feel he could command, he most certainly wouldn't have been on any short list.

I loved his response though and it matches what we've been saying all along...that he'd not want to deal with the IOA and he felt sorry for whoever did. I think he's quite happy going offworld and kicking butt and letting other people, who are able to stomach the IOA, do it instead of him...therefore relieving him of the worry of having to deal with that hassle.

Yup. He doesn't want the headaches of politics, so by not being the leader, he CAN go out. And on the other hand, Carter shouldn't (since she got the leader job) ;)

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 04:48 PM
Yes, McKay is delusional about himself. ("Rodney is delusional. He knows that the “unrequited lust thing” only went one way, but his ego won’t let him actually come out and admit it.")

Actually, I think he meant to say "Rodney is NOT delusional". Saying Rodney IS delusional contradicts the next sentence - "He knows that the 'unrequited lust thing" only went one way." He wouldn't know that if he were delusional.

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 04:50 PM
Hammond only went through the gate once, yup.

Actually, I can think of two times....Into the Fire, and Prisoners.

garhkal
October 13th, 2007, 04:53 PM
Cont from prior post.


Mark Dacascos was awesome in this episode. I just wish they'd shot that fight scene in a brighter location but they left it open for his character to come back so maybe next time.

That is true... they did leave it open for him to make a comeback, but would it be as an enemy or possibily as a friend.. though i wonder if Ronon will ever trust him after this ep..


If Sam and John were both in mortal danger, I think Daniel, Jack, Teal'c, Cameron, and Vala would all come through the Gate to help.


That would be great to see... As i would love a good ground battle with Teyla, Ronon and Teal'c fighting side by side..


I'd love to see the 'gift of life' explored a bit more, and how it affects a person's body chemistry, and if there's like a residual something that lies dormant until it's reactived. That could be quite interesting. I miss that it wasn't explored more after CG, and I hope this opens up the door for more

That makes me wonder f they ahve to feed on you first, before they can give any life back... Kind of like tasting you to make their 'giviing of life' compatible to your systems/. I also want to know if with long exposure there is any side effects like with the sarcofigi and what happened to Daniel in Need.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 13th, 2007, 04:55 PM
This was a really great episode. One, it actually showed what Ronon's inner wish was- to reunite with his own people. you can't really blame him. He's been on the run for 7 years, been in Atlantis for 2 years, he still misses his own people. But, I think he's finally accepted the truth.
This episode did have some plotholes in it, such as Ronon's friend using the term "Ancients", but besides that, my cons are as follows:

* Mckay was a little too excited about wanting to be leader. Despite the need, he could have pulled it off a little more maturely.
* Sheppard's extreme delight in Carter being the new commander clearly contradicted his desire to find Weir.
* Carter's attempt to get Ronon to stay was a little misplaced- one because she did not truly comprehend what Ronon had been through. Also, Carter crossed the line when she implied that she would attempt to forcefully keep Ronon from leaving. If she is going to act like that then she is inconsiderate and equal to a dictator, IMO. She had no authority or right to imprison Ronon in Atlantis against his will.
* Also, I do have an issue with the Carter-Sheppard talk. they could have at least tried not to copy the Rising scene.
* Last, but definitely not least, Reunion really showed the gap left by Dr. Weir. Even with Carter in her place, something is missing from the whole team dynamic. Dr. Weir really did have a special role, besides the leadership role, which Carter can't replace.

Uber
October 13th, 2007, 04:56 PM
Yup. He doesn't want the headaches of politics, so by not being the leader, he CAN go out. And on the other hand, Carter shouldn't (since she got the leader job) ;)I don't think she should or will be going off on a regular basis...as I understand, this is the first of three trips offworld...but I don't have a problem with her going out and leading this rescue mission. I mean, heck, this is what she did for years and years and this is what, her second day in Atlantis? Old habits die hard, and all that.

Agent_Dark
October 13th, 2007, 04:57 PM
EDIT: After reading other comments, I have to agree, however, that there should have been a salute, although I didn't notice it when I watched the episode. But now that I'm thinking about it...it should have been there. Are they trying to downplay Sam being military I wonder?

No, that was proper. They were inside and they weren't wearing cover (hats) which means they don't salute.

Skydiver
October 13th, 2007, 04:58 PM
Actually, I can think of two times....Into the Fire, and Prisoners.
there was a third time...they were off world, sam had her pilot's suit on, but the eps escapes me at the moment,but they were at a temp base off world

SG13-NightOps
October 13th, 2007, 04:58 PM
Very good Ep. To be honest I had low expectations for this one - and it exceeded them (third ep of a season usually blows in the big time).

Biggest thing for me was how obvious it was that Rachel was pregnant. In the very first scene I noticed it immediately. I never even noticed it with ATs on SG1 and I guess they just could have tried a little harder. She also looked so uncomfortable in the jumper. I do love that it took two satedans to get the better of her.

Awesome with the Asuran at the end.

Loved how Rodney thought he was getting the nod! Foremost expert in Ancient Technology and Replicator Activity - and it helps she has saved their collective butts too!

Agent_Dark
October 13th, 2007, 05:00 PM
Also, Carter crossed the line when she implied that she would attempt to forcefully keep Ronon from leaving. If she is going to act like that then she is inconsiderate and equal to a dictator, IMO. She had no authority or right to imprison Ronon in Atlantis against his will.
Err, its well within her rights and authority to ensure the security of Atlantis. If Ronon had of left, and then been captured by the Wraith or Asurans and given up the new location of Atlantis under torture (the Asurans don't really need to you to cooperate to get something from you...), then GG.

Alipeeps
October 13th, 2007, 05:03 PM
Am I right in stating Satedans cannot be fed off by Wraith, which is why Ronan was turned into a Runner to begin with?

If that is true, big continuity error.

If not, then I misunderstood.

Nope. It's never been explained why the wraith didn't feed on Ronon but there's never been any suggestion that Satedans are in any way immune to feeding.


Come back Martin Gero all is forgiven. :P

Umm.. but don't you usually complain about how Martin writes McKay..? ;)


I agree that it didn't make sense for Sam to go on the rescue mission as commander of Atlantis. But it's happened before on both SG-1 and Atlantis (Shepp was in command in Adrift, and he kept putting himself in dangerous positions, too; it would have made more sense to send someone else with Zelenka for the spacewalk, for example...). But the writers will always use characters/actors with whom the audience will identify before plugging in someone unknown. Viewers are going to be more emotionally attached to the story if Sam is on the mission as opposed to some unknown marine. Lorne might have been a better choice in both Adrift and Reunion, but in any case, believability gets sacrificed in favor of familiarity (and perhaps budget issues).

Indeed. It's like on House some people complain that we see House's team performing duties and tests that in real life would be carried out by nurses/specialist technicians etc... and TPTB of the show freely admit that yes, this is not technically true to life but that the audience are not interested in watching random unknown characters perform the tests etc (not to mention the cost of hiring all those extra actors!) and that when making a TV show they sometimes have to sacrifice strict accuracy in favour of the entertainment factor.


Carter then starts referring to Shep as "John" almost immediately.

She called him John over the video link *before* she came to Atlantis, *before* she officially took over as base commander. Not since.


She said PEOPLE, not Carter fans. And actually just by reading this thread YES I have seen it. Weir was so wrong in Rising but now Carter is so right. And I'm not saying Carter fans are saying this, mainly just anybody who wanted doesn't like Weir.


Soo... you know for a fact (you've been back and checked?) the previously posted opinions about the scene in Rising that were made by the people in this thread talking about the scene with Carter in Reunion? You know for a fact that those who are now praising Carter for what she said previously dissed Weir for the same decision?

Sorry to spoil your carefully plotted demographic but I'm neither pro nor anti Carter or Weir and I have no problem with what Carter said in this scene OR what Weir said in Rising. How does that fit into your theory of perceived bias?


God, I JUST realised this is the first time we have seen the Asurans/Wraith together!!! I can't believe I didn't twig on earlier...

Does anyone else have an opinion on the... well... disgust the Wraith scientist felt about the Replicators?

I found that very interesting - from a Wraith's point of view, I guess the Asurans are the ultimate ****-tease... they are alive, they look human.. they look like *food* but they're not.. they're machine not flesh and they can't be fed on. I can see that being something that is abhorrent to the Wraith


about ronan's friends turning... i got the impression that they'd been not only tortured but brain washed by the wraith. i wonder if they could have been reprogrammed, if they'd survived?...


Yup, the implication was that they were tortured by being fed up and revived over and over and over until the Wraith broke their spirits and effectively brainwashed them...


Ah, so obviously they have enough ZPMs to go back and forth I guess. So, does that mean they’ve got one back on earth? Or did they pull it from the Daedalus or Apollo just for that occasion?


Now that the Midway station is complete, people can use the gate bridge on foot..

I enjoyed this episode. Most of the reasons why have already been discussed in detail in here. And I need to watch it again I think to appreciate it to the fullest as my head cold is making coherent thought a challenge right now.. :)

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 05:05 PM
* Carter's attempt to get Ronon to stay was a little misplaced- one because she did not truly comprehend what Ronon had been through. Also, Carter crossed the line when she implied that she would attempt to forcefully keep Ronon from leaving. If she is going to act like that then she is inconsiderate and equal to a dictator, IMO. She had no authority or right to imprison Ronon in Atlantis against his will.

I don't think she's a dictator, but I admit that line bothered me. I was relieved later when she backed off in the scene with Ronon in the jumper. I know she's thinking about the security of the base, as she should be. But IMO she would have had a revolt on her hands if she'd tried to forcefully detain Ronon. I can't see Shep or Rodney or Teyla backing her up on that call.

prion
October 13th, 2007, 05:05 PM
Actually, I can think of two times....Into the Fire, and Prisoners.

Ah okay, can honestly say I don't memorize the shows ;)

AGateFan
October 13th, 2007, 05:05 PM
snip for space

* Mckay was a little too excited about wanting to be leader. Despite the need, he could have pulled it off a little more maturely.
* Sheppard's extreme delight in Carter being the new commander clearly contradicted his desire to find Weir.
* Carter's attempt to get Ronon to stay was a little misplaced- one because she did not truly comprehend what Ronon had been through. Also, Carter crossed the line when she implied that she would attempt to forcefully keep Ronon from leaving. If she is going to act like that then she is inconsiderate and equal to a dictator, IMO. She had no authority or right to imprison Ronon in Atlantis against his will.
* Also, I do have an issue with the Carter-Sheppard talk. they could have at least tried not to copy the Rising scene.
* Last, but definitely not least, Reunion really showed the gap left by Dr. Weir. Even with Carter in her place, something is missing from the whole team dynamic. Dr. Weir really did have a special role, besides the leadership role, which Carter can't replace.

* I thought McKay was pretty much in character assuming enough time had passed which from Joes blog it would seem it had.

* I didnt get that Sheppard was extremely delighted... although he may have just been happy it wasnt Caldwell or Ellis or even himself being put in charge. (After all he has spent his whole life putting it to the man, I am sure he couldnt imagen "being" the man...then he would have to do paperwork at a desk or something ;))

* In that Carter scene with Ronan what I saw was an military officer thowing out a threat that the IOA probably required her to throw out. Her heart didnt seem into it but the fact remains that he would be a security risk. Hammond made a similar threat to Teal'c in the past. Neither are dictators, but they do have a job and the lives of all the people on Atlantis trump Ronans desire to be with his friends (or Teal'cs rescue his family).

* Sheppard/Carter talk was apparently like that on purpose, though it just seemed like a normal talk to me. I am kind of sick of everyone hanging out on the balcony though.

*hmmmmm, I think Carter and Weir could have both not been in this ep at all at it wouldnt have changed the team dynamics that much. This was a Ronan ep, and a very good one.

EDIT: Oh and on another subject. I must also voice my displeasure with the new uniforms and I would expect Carter not to go offworld too often. She should be in a Hammond like role. I know she's used to being more proactive but shes going to have to get over it as it is not really in the job description.

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 05:08 PM
* In that Carter scene with Ronan what I saw was an military officer thowing out a threat that the IOA probably required her to throw out. Her heart didnt seem into it but the fact remains that he would be a security risk. Hammond made a similar threat to Teal'c in the past. Neither are dictators, but they do have a job and the lives of all the people on Atlantis trump Ronans desire to be with his friends (or Teal'cs rescue his family).

With this I agree. But I'm glad they didn't go down that road, because I do think his friends - his Atlantis friends - would have fought her on it. And while I'm all for tension, that might be a little much this stage in the game.

prion
October 13th, 2007, 05:10 PM
I don't think she's a dictator, but I admit that line bothered me. I was relieved later when she backed off in the scene with Ronon in the jumper. I know she's thinking about the security of the base, as she should be. But IMO she would have had a revolt on her hands if she'd tried to forcefully detain Ronon. I can't see Shep or Rodney or Teyla backing her up on that call.

Nah, not a dictator. By the book type though. That line to Ronon about "not wanting to find out" was really odd, I mean, what would she do? Have locked up in the wraith cell indefinitely? And if she did, yeah, there would be problems and rumblings amongst the lower caste ;)

Willow'sCat
October 13th, 2007, 05:11 PM
I have to say Mckay sorta ticked me off in this episode. He is all happy because he thinks he will be in charge of SGA, where as Sheppard did not care at all or even thought about it. He was only concerned about finding Elizabeth and made it known to Carter that they all have not given up on her. Ronon even had words with Carter and in a way was expecting Carter to say yes, so Carter threw in the "I'm not Dr. Weir" Well my take unlike Mr Joe Mallozzi's *see his blog* is that tptb were shipping Weir/Sheppard from season one, and now in order to not piss off those fans 'cause half of them are already pissed off enough with Weir leaving... they must have John being all 'we have to find Elizabeth... oh my god I may die without her!' :P

*groan*

Well that is my take on it. :cool::P

As for McKay again Joe M gives his take in his blog, for what it is worth. :cool: Apparently it has been months *yes months* since Weir went missing in action... so it is OK for McKay to be happy. ;):cool::rolleyes:

Uber
October 13th, 2007, 05:11 PM
This was a really great episode. One, it actually showed what Ronon's inner wish was- to reunite with his own people. you can't really blame him. He's been on the run for 7 years, been in Atlantis for 2 years, he still misses his own people. But, I think he's finally accepted the truth.
This episode did have some plotholes in it, such as Ronon's friend using the term "Ancients", but besides that, my cons are as follows:

* Mckay was a little too excited about wanting to be leader. Despite the need, he could have pulled it off a little more maturely.We are talking about Rodney McKay, right?
* Sheppard's extreme delight in Carter being the new commander clearly contradicted his desire to find Weir.How does that figure? Life does go on and someone would have to fill that position eventually. Just because he's pleased that they chose Carter doesn't mean he's given up on finding Weir. In fact, a conversation later in the episode shows quite nicely that he's intent on finding her.
* Carter's attempt to get Ronon to stay was a little misplaced- one because she did not truly comprehend what Ronon had been through. I think she'd have a pretty good idea as Teal'c had gone through something similar.
Also, Carter crossed the line when she implied that she would attempt to forcefully keep Ronon from leaving. If she is going to act like that then she is inconsiderate and equal to a dictator, IMO. She had no authority or right to imprison Ronon in Atlantis against his will.Not anymore than Hammond refusing to let Teal'c leave the SGC early on as he presented too much of a security risk...and in Atlantis's case, the risk is even more pronounced.
* Also, I do have an issue with the Carter-Sheppard talk. they could have at least tried not to copy the Rising scene.Well I think that was the intent...to call back on that moment specifically to kind of contrast and compare her response to Weir's.
* Last, but definitely not least, Reunion really showed the gap left by Dr. Weir. Even with Carter in her place, something is missing from the whole team dynamic. Dr. Weir really did have a special role, besides the leadership role, which Carter can't replace.Well that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. I liked Weir but I think this episode showed the opposite...that the should could and did go on and that while things are different, that doesn't automatically mean it's worse.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 13th, 2007, 05:13 PM
Err, its well within her rights and authority to ensure the security of Atlantis. If Ronon had of left, and then been captured by the Wraith or Asurans and given up the new location of Atlantis under torture (the Asurans don't really need to you to cooperate to get something from you...), then GG.

That would be crossing the line if she detained Ronon. Say Tealc had been detained in SG-1 when he chose to leave the SGC (I think the episode was Into the Fire or which ever one had Hathor.) If Gen. Hammond had kept Teal'c from leaving ( and enforced it), what do you think that would have done to his reputation? It's no different than that. Just because carter was a reg on SG-1 for 10 years does not mean that every decision she makes is right. Second, if Ronon decided to leave, he had that right. Remember he was just a guest in Atlantis, despite being their friend. Therefore, because he is not a member of the expedition, just like Teyla isn't, Carter had no authority to hinder him from leaving. That shows a lack of character and honor on her part. As well as the fact that it was her first day in charge. It's no different than if the IOA decided to lock up Vala or Tealc.
If that did happen, it would be as though Ronon was really a prisoner being used and treated like an ally and asset. It's not like Sheppard or Mckay deciding to run off throughout the Pegasus Galaxy for their own selfish purposes.

Uber
October 13th, 2007, 05:14 PM
there was a third time...they were off world, sam had her pilot's suit on, but the eps escapes me at the moment,but they were at a temp base off worldFallen.

Hammond set up a base on the planet they found Daniel...and Jack and Sam took a 302 up to attack Anubis's ship a la Star Wars.

Alipeeps
October 13th, 2007, 05:15 PM
As for McKay again Joe M gives his take in his blog, for what it is worth. :cool: Apparently it has been months *yes months* since Weir went missing in action... so it is OK for McKay to be happy. ;):cool::rolleyes:

Nope. Not months.. weeks. I quote:


In my mind, it’s been several weeks since the events of Lifelife and while the loss of Weir still resonates (as demonstrated in some later scenes), some time has passed.

justhere1971
October 13th, 2007, 05:21 PM
With this I agree. But I'm glad they didn't go down that road, because I do think his friends - his Atlantis friends - would have fought her on it. And while I'm all for tension, that might be a little much this stage in the game.

The threat was interesting because I think it made Ronon pay closer attention. Ronon, as much as I loved him bringing up Weir, was a little out of line.

As for the others, I do not think they'd have been able to do much. Shep & Rodney would be bound by the IOA again. Teyla, maybe.

Agent_Dark
October 13th, 2007, 05:22 PM
That would be crossing the line if she detained Ronon. Say Tealc had been detained in SG-1 when he chose to leave the SGC (I think the episode was Into the Fire or which ever one had Hathor.) If Gen. Hammond had kept Teal'c from leaving ( and enforced it), what do you think that would have done to his reputation? It's no different than that. Just because carter was a reg on SG-1 for 10 years does not mean that every decision she makes is right. Second, if Ronon decided to leave, he had that right. Remember he was just a guest in Atlantis, despite being their friend. Therefore, because he is not a member of the expedition, just like Teyla isn't, Carter had no authority to hinder him from leaving. That shows a lack of character and honor on her part. As well as the fact that it was her first day in charge. It's no different than if the IOA decided to lock up Vala or Tealc.
Vastly different scenarios between Teal'c and Ronon. Teal'c leaving the SGC wouldn't have potentially put the entire operation at risk. The Goa'uld already know the location of Earth and the Asgard Protected Planets Treaty prevented them from attacking anyway, lest they run the risk of provoking the Asgard. A simple change of IDC's is all they need.
Letting Ronon go on the other hand, in the situation that Atlantis is in at the moment. They've just successfully escaped from the Asuran's and fled to a planet that neither the Wraith nor the Asurans know about. They need to keep that a secret, otherwise they'll have to face the wrath of both of their enemies again or move again. It's a Risk/Benefit scenario. What Benefit does the Atlantis Expedition gain by letting Ronon go off with his mates? Very little, probably none. So Ronon's gang kills a few Wraith here and there. Big deal, it has zero impact on the strategic situation. What Risks does the Atlantis Expedition open up by letting Ronon go off with his mates? A very big one, in that the location of Atlantis could be revealed.

Big Risk/No Benefit. Doesn't take a genius to decide what to do.

AGateFan
October 13th, 2007, 05:24 PM
That would be crossing the line if she detained Ronon. Say Tealc had been detained in SG-1 when he chose to leave the SGC (I think the episode was Into the Fire or which ever one had Hathor.) If Gen. Hammond had kept Teal'c from leaving ( and enforced it), what do you think that would have done to his reputation? It's no different than that. Just because carter was a reg on SG-1 for 10 years does not mean that every decision she makes is right. Second, if Ronon decided to leave, he had that right. Remember he was just a guest in Atlantis, despite being their friend. Therefore, because he is not a member of the expedition, just like Teyla isn't, Carter had no authority to hinder him from leaving. That shows a lack of character and honor on her part. As well as the fact that it was her first day in charge. It's no different than if the IOA decided to lock up Vala or Tealc.
If that did happen, it would be as though Ronon was really a prisoner being used and treated like an ally and asset. It's not like Sheppard or Mckay deciding to run off throughout the Pegasus Galaxy for their own selfish purposes.
For all we know Ronan and Teyla signed NDRs just like other civilian contractors. ;)

I dont think anyone is saying its honorable but sometimes leaders have to make desicions that are distasteful for the good of everyone. I couldnt do it, thats why I wouldnt be a good leader. I didnt like it when Hammond said it to Teal'c, I didnt like it when the Tokra did it to SG-1, and I didnt like it when the CIA (or whoever) did it to Bourn :) but I can on some level understand it. And it doesnt suprise me this is the governments stance and it wouldnt suprise me if they did put Ronan in jail until some time when he no longer posed a security risk.

All that being said I do think there would be a mutiny among SGA the way SG-1 came to Teal'cs aid....but then again O'Neill really couldnt do much for Teal'c when he FIRST game to earth and they had him in chains, so whatcanyoudo.

Killdeer
October 13th, 2007, 05:28 PM
The threat was interesting because I think it made Ronon pay closer attention. Ronon, as much as I loved him bringing up Weir, was a little out of line.

Well, he's not part of the chain of command, so not exactly out of line I don't think. He was just saying what he thought, same as he always does. I liked that they put the conflict in there.


As for the others, I do not think they'd have been able to do much. Shep & Rodney would be bound by the IOA again. Teyla, maybe.

I'd have been surprised if they hadn't raised a royal ruckus about it though.

kirmit
October 13th, 2007, 05:29 PM
Good episode, nice mix of all the characters, felt a little sorry for mckay at the beginning lol. Sam's transition well very well IMO just hope it doesn't rule her out of future SG-1 movies. Loved the brutality of the fight between Ronon and his friends, something not seen on stargate before.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 13th, 2007, 05:29 PM
Vastly different scenarios between Teal'c and Ronon. Teal'c leaving the SGC wouldn't have potentially put the entire operation at risk. The Goa'uld already know the location of Earth and the Asgard Protected Planets Treaty prevented them from attacking anyway, lest they run the risk of provoking the Asgard. A simple change of IDC's is all they need.
Letting Ronon go on the other hand, in the situation that Atlantis is in at the moment. They've just successfully escaped from the Asuran's and fled to a planet that neither the Wraith nor the Asurans know about. They need to keep that a secret, otherwise they'll have to face the wrath of both of their enemies again or move again. It's a Risk/Benefit scenario. What Benefit does the Atlantis Expedition gain by letting Ronon go off with his mates? Very little, probably none. So Ronon's gang kills a few Wraith here and there. Big deal, it has zero impact on the strategic situation. What Risks does the Atlantis Expedition open up by letting Ronon go off with his mates? A very big one, in that the location of Atlantis could be revealed.

Big Risk/No Benefit. Doesn't take a genius to decide what to do.

I'm not doubting the reasons behind the decision.
What I'm questioning are the morals behind the decision.
It may have been for the good of Atlantis, but was it the right call morally?

Detaining an expedition member is one thing, but detaining an offworlder merely because you think he's a security risk is another thing.
What if it had been Teyla who decided to leave? What if she decided to go back to her people, who have no settled on another world? Would Carter have detained her? Or is it just because Ronon has a violent nature? It would be no different than if Ronon joined the Genii. After all, they both use the same weapons.
Another thing. Say Ronon refused to recognize Carter as the new leader of the base, and he jsut blatantly ignored all of her commands. What would she do? Lock him up? Then what? Have him taken to earth to be locked up for insubordination? Court-martialed? He's not exactly military. No, she would ask him to leave Atlantis.

prion
October 13th, 2007, 05:36 PM
That would be crossing the line if she detained Ronon. Say Tealc had been detained in SG-1 when he chose to leave the SGC (I think the episode was Into the Fire or which ever one had Hathor.) If Gen. Hammond had kept Teal'c from leaving ( and enforced it), what do you think that would have done to his reputation? It's no different than that. Just because carter was a reg on SG-1 for 10 years does not mean that every decision she makes is right. Second, if Ronon decided to leave, he had that right. Remember he was just a guest in Atlantis, despite being their friend. Therefore, because he is not a member of the expedition, just like Teyla isn't, Carter had no authority to hinder him from leaving. That shows a lack of character and honor on her part. As well as the fact that it was her first day in charge. It's no different than if the IOA decided to lock up Vala or Tealc.
If that did happen, it would be as though Ronon was really a prisoner being used and treated like an ally and asset. It's not like Sheppard or Mckay deciding to run off throughout the Pegasus Galaxy for their own selfish purposes.

While keeping the city hidden from the bad guys is an imperative, making threats (trying to think of another word) to allies isn't going to help anyone. And just how far does US military rule extend into another galaxy?

Agent_Dark
October 13th, 2007, 05:39 PM
I'm not doubting the reasons behind the decision.
What I'm questioning are the morals behind the decision.
It may have been for the good of Atlantis, but was it the right call morally?

Detaining an expedition member is one thing, but detaining an offworlder merely because you think he's a security risk is another thing.
What if it had been Teyla who decided to leave? What if she decided to go back to her people, who have no settled on another world? Would Carter have detained her? Or is it just because Ronon has a violent nature? It would be no different than if Ronon joined the Genii. After all, they both use the same weapons.
Another thing. Say Ronon refused to recognize Carter as the new leader of the base, and he jsut blatantly ignored all of her commands. What would she do? Lock him up? Then what? Have him taken to earth to be locked up for insubordination? Court-martialed? He's not exactly military. No, she would ask him to leave Atlantis.

Atlantis has jail cells. They have non-lethal weapons. And if Ronon decided to not recognise the new leader, then he's obviously not fit to be part of the expedition (he has to play by their rules) and there would have definitely had to be actions taken against him.
I actually think putting the lives of the entire Atlantis expedition ahead of one man is by far better call morally.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 13th, 2007, 05:40 PM
While keeping the city hidden from the bad guys is an imperative, making threats (trying to think of another word) to allies isn't going to help anyone. And just how far does US military rule extend into another galaxy?

If keeping the city hidden was such a big problem, then all Carter had to do was bring the Galaran memory technology( from Collateral Damage) and wipe Atlantis's location from Ronon's head. But, of course, Ronon and Carter had to be in conflict.

Atlantis has jail cells. They have non-lethal weapons. And if Ronon decided to not recognise the new leader, then he's obviously not fit to be part of the expedition (he has to play by their rules) and there would have definitely had to be actions taken against him.
I actually think putting the lives of the entire Atlantis expedition ahead of one man is by far better call morally.

Yes, such actions being what? If he's not fit to be in the expedition, then they'd make him leave. He can't exactly spend the rest of his life in Atlantis's cells. And if he was taken to earth, I doubt Shep, Mckay or teyla would be fine with that.

Willow'sCat
October 13th, 2007, 05:41 PM
Nope. Not months.. weeks. I quote:
Well several weeks means more then one month...in my book... so we are splitting hairs, he is still saying McKay is able to be happy now because such a long amount of time has passed. Really if several weeks (more then a month) is time enough... *shrugs* maybe McKay doesn't care about Weir. :cool:

Agent_Dark
October 13th, 2007, 05:41 PM
If keeping the city hidden was such a big problem, then all Carter had to do was bring the Galaran memory technology( from Collateral Damage) and wipe Atlantis's location from Ronon's head. But, of course, Ronon and Carter had to be in conflict.

Well, who says that wouldn't have happened? That's a fairly drastic measure though and its not going to be the first option...

AGateFan
October 13th, 2007, 05:42 PM
If keeping the city hidden was such a big problem, then all Carter had to do was bring the Galaran memory technology( from Collateral Damage) and wipe Atlantis's location from Ronon's head. But, of course, Ronon and Carter had to be in conflict.


Yes, such actions being what? If he's not fit to be in the expedition, then they'd make him leave. He can't exactly spend the rest of his life in Atlantis's cells. And if he was taken to earth, I doubt Shep, Mckay or teyla would be fine with that.
Well maybe no one thought of that....maybe they would have thought of that had TPTB decided to explore this particular little conundum a little more as that would seem to be a decent solution that would work for everyone. Assuming Ronans brain isnt as resiliant as the rest of him.