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GateWorld
October 5th, 2007, 06:31 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/402.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/402.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/402.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">LIFELINE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 402</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Colonel Sheppard and his team embark on a risky mission to steal a Z.P.M. power module from the Replicators -- but must rely on a compromised Dr. Weir to succeed.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/402.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Tippy
October 5th, 2007, 08:03 PM
that was... AMAZING!!!!! The suprises, the crazy stunts! Loved it!!!

technoextreme
October 5th, 2007, 08:04 PM
that was... AMAZING!!!!! The suprises, the crazy stunts! Loved it!!!
It's time to jack the shields up and see how far it penetrates.

Sweetsong
October 5th, 2007, 08:05 PM
Great follow up episode, so totally beat Adrift in terms of excitment and adventure! Dr. Weir kicked butt, going to miss her after all. The whole Carter coming to the rescue in a ship speculation was realized in this.

I really do hope something good comes of the replicators attacking the wraith, we all know how seemingly good things can spiral out of control. Anyways, 10/10.

A Lost Cause
October 5th, 2007, 08:06 PM
Why didnt the anti rep beam effect the nanites in weir? I dont remember it being explained.

psiu
October 5th, 2007, 08:06 PM
cool episode...I liked it.....several twists I didnt see coming :D

Mattathias2.0
October 5th, 2007, 08:06 PM
I thought it was an excellent episode.

*Loved the Weir/Oberoth scenes.
*The view of the Asuran Homeworld.
*The "penetrate" and "kissing" slashing.
*The ending with the Asuran vessels attacking the Wraith.
*The PJ/Apollo/Asuran ship scene.

Basically, everything, including all Carter and Dr. Lee stuff.

Tippy
October 5th, 2007, 08:06 PM
It's time to jack the shields up and see how far it penetrates.

*Dies* lolol so much greatness from McKay dialogue!

technoextreme
October 5th, 2007, 08:06 PM
Why didnt the anti rep beam effect the nanites in weir? I dont remember it being explained.
She never crossed the field.
*Dies* lolol so much greatness from McKay dialogue!
John's reaction was priceless. McKay also rolled his eyes at John too which was funny.

Tippy
October 5th, 2007, 08:07 PM
Why didnt the anti rep beam effect the nanites in weir? I dont remember it being explained.

She never passed through the shield so she wasnt affected ^_^

McKayManiacs92
October 5th, 2007, 08:08 PM
to me...I love how they finally start writing Weir into a good character to watch...and we will (more than likely in my opinion the way the writers are working for me) NEVER see her again after this season.....:weiranime34:

I loved Weir completely all the way, loved the Sheppard questioning to "pull the plug"....but the episode just seemed to be lacking overall for me.

Ruffles
October 5th, 2007, 08:08 PM
And I had the complete opposite reaction from sweetsong. I liked Adrift's action better. I did think Lifeline was a great ep. Loved Weir tricking Oberoth. Was a little disappointed to see the old McKay back. LOVED the scene with Ronon and Teyla as she packed Weir's office.

Major_Griff
October 5th, 2007, 08:08 PM
Pretty good episode, I was hoping for more time being dedicated to the actual heist, but I enjoyed the rest of it.

Xicer
October 5th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Definitely better than the premiere! An excellent follow-up episode. I admit it was a little slow in the beginning but it definitely picked up. I thought it was a great send-off for Weir as well. My only gripe though is that Teyla was in like 2min. of the entire episode which I thought was a bit cheap. And I also thought, judging from how much of a big deal they were making it the last episode, that the ZPM heist would have played a much larger part in the story. McKay started to get annoying again at times but I was able to get around that.

Mattathias2.0
October 5th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Why didnt the anti rep beam effect the nanites in weir? I dont remember it being explained.

It's simple. When the field was activated, she was inside the field (and did not pass through the field). After Weir left, the ARG field disengaged due to power loss by using it (which is why they couldn't cloak). So Weir was not affected by it at all.

However, does this mean Weir is assimilated? If so, does she follow the same command as the other Asurans?

Briangate78
October 5th, 2007, 08:10 PM
This show has become amazing. The plots and twists of this episode were just amazing. Wow!

Ltcolshepjumper
October 5th, 2007, 08:10 PM
She never passed through the shield so she wasnt affected ^_^

The nanites in weir's body- can they be disrupted? What I mean is, don't the disruptors just break the nanites apart? She didn't have to fear being disrupted unless they replicated in her body.

McKayManiacs92
October 5th, 2007, 08:11 PM
Pretty good episode, I was hoping for more time being dedicated to the actual heist, but I enjoyed the rest of it.

Yeah, I thought the heist was a little quick, and it was way to early....I was like "so what goes wrong now?".....

Darth kat
October 5th, 2007, 08:11 PM
Another great episode! Nice swan song for Elizabeth (even though I'm against it and sadened by it). I loved everything about the ep, except for the fact that Carter made it sound like Elizabeth is dead. Bad Carter! Very touching scene at the end, Teyla and Ronon grieving over the loss of Elizabeth.

10/10

lirenel
October 5th, 2007, 08:12 PM
Quite good, but I still feel a little letdown for some inexplicable reason. Don't really know. It will be interesting to see what happens with Elizabeth: the end scene between Sam and John reminded me a bit of the talk between Elizabeth and John after Ford stole through the Gate in Seige.

I don't know if anyone else thought this, but near the end when Rodney is describing all the ways it is possible for them to die entering the planet's atmosphere, John snaps at him saying "It never ends with you, you know?!" and Rodney actually looks kinda startled. It's like he was confused because Sheppard had always just smirked and snarked at him during his imminent-death speeches before. Maybe showing a strain between the two from Rodney's actions in Adrift (activating the nanites).

Shouldn't go into Teyla's role (or lack thereof). Seriously, she had, what, two lines and got to look sad when cleaning out Elizabeth's office. (also, why Teyla and why, like, the day Elizabeth disappeared?) Ronon is becoming quite good at the try-to-comfort-people-cleaning-out-personal-belongings-of-lost-friends thing.

Bimmer33
October 5th, 2007, 08:14 PM
I would assume the replicators would use drones on there warships since they copied all other technology from the ancients. If so the shields from the Apollo held up pretty well. And here I thought drones were the perfect weapon.

technoextreme
October 5th, 2007, 08:15 PM
I don't know if anyone else thought this, but near the end when Rodney is describing all the ways it is possible for them to die entering the planet's atmosphere, John snaps at him saying "It never ends with you, you know?!" and Rodney actually looks kinda startled. It's like he was confused because Sheppard had always just smirked and snarked at him during his imminent-death speeches before. Maybe showing a strain between the two from Rodney's actions in Adrift (activating the nanites).
I think John wasn't annoyed at his imminent death speeches more than his imminent death speeches would waste time and result in their imminent death.
I would assume the replicators would use drones on there warships since they copied all other technology from the ancients. If so the shields from the Apollo held up pretty well. And here I thought drones were the perfect weapon.
Thats because it was an energy weapon.

Iguana775
October 5th, 2007, 08:15 PM
good episode. It would have been cool if they could have snagged a couple more ZPMs. Somehow, I feel that we'll once again have a problem of not having a ZPM in the near future.

I really hope that Weir will be back and they are able to save her. She rocks.

One thing that bugged me. There seemed to be way too much talking in critical situations. lol. Instead of explaining everything, just do it Rodney!! :D

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
October 5th, 2007, 08:18 PM
Good episode, slightly better than last week's Premiere. I didn't expect that twist where Weir fooled Oberoth. Next week's episode looks interesting.

BigPharaoh
October 5th, 2007, 08:19 PM
another hour of contrived danger and plot events obviously contrived to accomodate behind-the-scenes changes. eh, they could have saved me an hour and just had weir fall of the balcony lol.

ColCaldwell
October 5th, 2007, 08:20 PM
I am, wow, that was a fantastic episode. I feel if they can do what they did with Carter in this episode, we have potential here. I was worried at first that as soon as she entered the picture, the spotlight would be on here! Anyway, love the scene, stunts, the spacebattle! 10/10!

Vala_M
October 5th, 2007, 08:20 PM
I loved it! Although, I thought that getting the ZPM happened a bit too early actually. The Asuran ship was dissappointingly weak fighting against the Apollo. I hate that they didn't give more time to connecting the ZPM in Atlantis and such. And having Dr. Lee on the Apollo felt wrong and out of place to me. Isn't he a research scientist? What position would he have that he would be on the ship or even aiding in the rescue exactly? The only other time he ever went off of Earth was back in season 6 of SG-1.

Vala,

Jackie
October 5th, 2007, 08:20 PM
I liked the episode over all. The only thing that struck me as odd was the reasoning to stay in the replicator city after they got what they came for.

Instruct the replicators to go attack the wraith--kind of lame.

I do hope that reason comes back and bits them in the rear later--at least there would be more meaning to starting a war between two races. (Yes, I conciser the replicators a race and not robots. They think and are self aware.)

ColCaldwell
October 5th, 2007, 08:21 PM
I think John wasn't annoyed at his imminent death speeches more than his imminent death speeches would waste time and result in their imminent death.
Thats because it was an energy weapon.

Hopefully someone got a screenshot of the battle, it looked like drones to me.

the fifth man
October 5th, 2007, 08:22 PM
Very good episode IMO. At least Weir helped save the day in her send-off. I will miss her character.

suse
October 5th, 2007, 08:23 PM
Why didnt the anti rep beam effect the nanites in weir? I dont remember it being explained.


I assume because the field acted like a shell. She was inside, the replicators were outside. She'd have gone Bzzt if she'd have touched it. Obertoth was inside the field when they met.

suse

Yashiv
October 5th, 2007, 08:23 PM
I would have preferred if they were just a little more sad at the end......
Too bad they could only have taken the 1.



I miss her already.

Ruined_puzzle
October 5th, 2007, 08:26 PM
another hour of contrived danger and plot events obviously contrived to accomodate behind-the-scenes changes. eh, they could have saved me an hour and just had weir fall of the balcony lol.

I know right. It seemed SO OBVIOUS. Still Torri/Weir rocked this episode. It's kind of sad.

Also Teyla has like the entire season, while yes it would have been nice if she had more screentime she's not the one leaving the show.

justhere1971
October 5th, 2007, 08:27 PM
I am still dissapointed. They promised a huge season premier, and maybe all that hype had me reaching for the sky. It was a bit of a let down. Let's do a little breakdown:

1. No real thought process on attacking the repli home planet. Just jump in and go. I suppose they can't really go over this much, because of the lack of time.

2. Puddle jumper shooting through the shield, no one else had a bad thought and got a visual of another bodily function? I almost choked laughing. :D

3. Rodney, still freakin' annoying with his whining.

4. Teyla - two whole sentences. Maybe some one should post a sign on her that says, pretty thing - for show only?

5. Ronon - for once they actually gave him something to do. I enjoyed the moment between him & Teyla in Weir's office. He was a true friend.

6. Carter, eh. Still jumping in saving the day. How's that changed since the last SG1 episode? I guess her hairstyle is different. So that's something new.

7. Dr. Lee, as much as I enjoyed him on SG1, he was unnecessary & annoying. Adding another "Rodney" element. How many times do we have to learn about his Warcraft addiction?

8. Ellis -- bring Caldwell back! This guy/actor -- man that degrading voice he uses to talk to ppl. *GAG*

9. Shep - you all probably know I love Sheppy. So can't be really unbiased there. When he snapped at Rodney was the best ever. Finally someone opened their mouth and told him like it is.

10. Weir: It makes me sad that they couldn't have written her this well in the past. That they've taken her out, and this is it.

There it is. In a nutshell my 2 cents. Please don't spend it all in one place. :D

Ltcolshepjumper
October 5th, 2007, 08:27 PM
It is sad that she gets development in the same episode she leaves.

DANIquinn
October 5th, 2007, 08:29 PM
All I have to say about this episode is: <i><b>Weir kicked A$$!!!!!!</i></b>

I quite enjoyed it. Great follow-up episode to Adrift. I'm going to miss Weir, but I loved her role in this episode. The best of Elizabeth in my opinion.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 5th, 2007, 08:29 PM
Hopefully someone got a screenshot of the battle, it looked like drones to me.

"Aurange" energy blasts

BerrySciFi
October 5th, 2007, 08:32 PM
I thought it was a huge letdown from Adrift. I thought it was ok, but John constantly ripping on McKay is really beginning to annoy me. I also didn't like his decision to hit the kill switch on Dr. Weir. He should've given her the benefit of the doubt.And he seems to get dumber with each passing episode. What happened to his genius IQ? I'm starting to dislike his character. Also, they waited maybe 2 seconds before they started packing up Weir's stuff. Jeez, are they even going to TRY to save her? (I know TH has been written out of the show, but still). On the plus side, Tori gave an AMAZING performance. She saved an otherwise disappointing episode, for me. Hopefully, TPTB will kill off Shep next and put Daniel Jackson in the show.

prion
October 5th, 2007, 08:32 PM
Quite good, but I still feel a little letdown for some inexplicable reason. Don't really know. It will be interesting to see what happens with Elizabeth: the end scene between Sam and John reminded me a bit of the talk between Elizabeth and John after Ford stole through the Gate in Seige.

I don't know if anyone else thought this, but near the end when Rodney is describing all the ways it is possible for them to die entering the planet's atmosphere, John snaps at him saying "It never ends with you, you know?!" and Rodney actually looks kinda startled. It's like he was confused because Sheppard had always just smirked and snarked at him during his imminent-death speeches before. Maybe showing a strain between the two from Rodney's actions in Adrift (activating the nanites).

Shouldn't go into Teyla's role (or lack thereof). Seriously, she had, what, two lines and got to look sad when cleaning out Elizabeth's office. (also, why Teyla and why, like, the day Elizabeth disappeared?) Ronon is becoming quite good at the try-to-comfort-people-cleaning-out-personal-belongings-of-lost-friends thing.

I think it would be teyla as hell, it gives her something to do, plus she and elizabeth did seem to be friends ("Sunday").

i think rodney was just stressing out. let's see, he's the one who has to save the city, he saved elizabeth only to doom her, so yeah, he's got some stress so is caving to imminent doom and shep probably isn't doing much better.


another hour of contrived danger and plot events obviously contrived to accomodate behind-the-scenes changes. eh, they could have saved me an hour and just had weir fall of the balcony lol.


It is sad that she gets development in the same episode she leaves.

yup. sucks.

overall, I liked the episode, it was action packed. could have done without dr lee being turned into the resident comedic relief though.

I did up some screencaps and it's just easier to point to the link than repost here as I'm hitting the sack.

http://wraithfodder.livejournal.com/120736.html

Gate Geek
October 5th, 2007, 08:37 PM
I'm most likely in the minority here ...but I was disappointed with this episode. I found it too predicatable in too many places, too slow (I lost count how many times I looked at the clock wondering when it was going to be over) and well I thought it was just a let down in terms of action and character interaction after such a great season opener.

Oh well, it was nice to see Weir actually doing something. It was nice to see Ronon showing his 'teddy bear' side by being there for Teyla when she was cleaning out Weir's office. Rodney was Rodney and Shep was Shep. And I'm still trying to figure out why Dr. Lee is around.....

Certainly not one of the worst eps, but not one of the favorites either.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 5th, 2007, 08:38 PM
I think it would be teyla as hell, it gives her something to do, plus she and elizabeth did seem to be friends ("Sunday").

i think rodney was just stressing out. let's see, he's the one who has to save the city, he saved elizabeth only to doom her, so yeah, he's got some stress so is caving to imminent doom and shep probably isn't doing much better.





yup. sucks.

overall, I liked the episode, it was action packed. could have done without dr lee being turned into the resident comedic relief though.

I did up some screencaps and it's just easier to point to the link than repost here as I'm hitting the sack.

http://wraithfodder.livejournal.com/120736.html

THANKS!!!!!!!!!

the fifth man
October 5th, 2007, 08:39 PM
All I have to say about this episode is: <i><b>Weir kicked A$$!!!!!!</i></b>

I quite enjoyed it. Great follow-up episode to Adrift. I'm going to miss Weir, but I loved her role in this episode. The best of Elizabeth in my opinion.

Definitely a great episode for the Weir character. It is a shame this is pretty much it for her.:( If they'd have done more like this with her in the past, maybe we wouldn't be having to see her leave now.

ann_sgcfan
October 5th, 2007, 08:41 PM
Over all funny moments, emotional moments, on the edge of your seat moments. I really enjoyed this episode!! I thought it was a great episode for Weir (very heroic). The last scene with Teyla cleaning out Weirs office was very emotional seeing her with tears and a scene or two before that with Sheppard taking a moment in the chair after landing the city once again! I also liked Sam and Sheppard's scene at the end. Landry sent his condolences and Sam passing it along to Sheppard. I wonder if they (Sheppard, Rodney or Ronon) have told them what really happened. Those on the Apollo only know there was no life signs for Weir on the planet. Which means what? She is being reprogrammed? I dunno...

I really like that the Apollo came in just in time to pick up the boys :D...Ties in nicely with Adrift! Excited to see the replicators now out there battling the Wraith once again...

Only bad part was that Teyla was not in the episode very much... would have been nice to see her there a lot more!

Looking forward to next weeks episode!!

Freekzilla
October 5th, 2007, 08:43 PM
Now THAT was a good episode! They finally got it right, AND finally did somethings we've been asking for. First was, they actually talked about Weir's "demise" instead of forgetting about it two seconds after it happened. Good job! Two, Carter wasn't automatically put in to replace Weir straight off the bat. It looks as though there will actually be some thought behind that action before it happens. Three, there were plenty of suprize twists I didn't see coming. Four, it seemed that everyone had a little bit more character and that it flowed more smoothly than before. The only down side and complaint I have is, does Rodney ever shut up and stop complaining? If he's not being pompous and arrogant, he's whining and complaining. Good grief, shut up and do your job Rodney! Jeez!

Did anyone else see the hint of a relationship between Ronon and Teyla? And what about those large venomous snakes on the main land? I think there's gonna be a three way thrown down soon. All in all, a very good episode.

Drizzt Do'Urden
October 5th, 2007, 08:46 PM
Very nice episode! liked it much better than last week! is Dr. Lee staying around for any more episodes cause i though he was kinda funny in this one!!!

Freekzilla
October 5th, 2007, 08:46 PM
Over all funny moments, emotional moments, on the edge of your seat moments. I really enjoyed this episode!! I thought it was a great episode for Weir (very heroic). The last scene with Teyla cleaning out Weirs office was very emotional seeing her with tears and a scene or two before that with Sheppard taking a moment in the chair after landing the city once again! I also liked Sam and Sheppard's scene at the end. Landry sent his condolences and Sam passing it along to Sheppard. I wonder if they (Sheppard, Rodney or Ronon) have told them what really happened. Those on the Odyssey only know there was no life signs for Weir on the planet. Which means what? She is being reprogrammed? I dunno...

I really like that the Odyssey came in just in time to pick up the boys :D...Ties in nicely with Adrift! Excited to see the replicators now out there battling the Wraith once again...

Only bad part was that Teyla was not in the episode very much... would have been nice to see her there a lot more!

Looking forward to next weeks episode!!

One slight correction, it was the Apollo, not the Odyssey.

ann_sgcfan
October 5th, 2007, 08:51 PM
One slight correction, it was the Apollo, not the Odyssey.

Thanks! I changed it lol had it in my head Carter was coming over on the Odyssey didn't pay attention to the name of the ship sorry. :D

Freekzilla
October 5th, 2007, 09:01 PM
Thanks! I changed it lol had it in my head Carter was coming over on the Odyssey didn't pay attention to the name of the ship sorry. :D

Ah no prob. We're all allowed the occassional brain fart once in a while. Why just the other day I almost freaked out at the grocery store because I couldn't find my car keys and sunglasses. Yup, you guessed it. Sunglasses on my head, car keys in my hand. DOH! Now THAT is bad!

technoextreme
October 5th, 2007, 09:01 PM
If he's not being pompous and arrogant, he's whining and complaining. Good grief, shut up and do your job Rodney! Jeez!
Well I would be complaining too as I was being forced to implement something I knew that may blow me up. Too smart for his own good.

Lord batchi ball
October 5th, 2007, 09:02 PM
I really liked the trick Wier played on Oberath,, and how they put it in to the story was great!!

I thought that scene where Ronan and Shep were running from all the replicators was like a zombie movie it was creepy and very entertaining

Ruined_puzzle
October 5th, 2007, 09:02 PM
Did anyone else see the hint of a relationship between Ronon and Teyla?

Umm yes. But I've seen it for the past two years.

Willow'sCat
October 5th, 2007, 09:08 PM
another hour of contrived danger and plot events obviously contrived to accomodate behind-the-scenes changes. eh, they could have saved me an hour and just had weir fall of the balcony lol.
LOL Now that I would have paid to see! :D I do agree this ep was about Weir leaving and Carter arriving *not arriving* but I don't agree that the whole ep was contrived... just bits. :p

Personally out of the three eps I have seen this one is the most like season two...:cool: in that it is formula Stargate, nothing new or exciting happens here that couldn't happen in a dozen other eps...:rolleyes: I liked it but it is the weakest of the three.

This is why I am not a Carl fan he writes formula TV, that is who he is Mr Predictable.;)

Mitchell82
October 5th, 2007, 09:12 PM
Wow Great epsiode. JM promised a excellent season opener and he did it. This two parter was superbly done. Both episodes tied in well together and gave Weir a fine sendoff. Good that we'll see her in two more episodes but I'll wager that if we get a fifth season we won't see any more Weir. Loved the trick she played on Oberoth didn't expect that at all. Loved the interaction with John and Rodney, loved the impact that Weir going MIA had. Nice to see they arent forcing carter into position. As much as I love the first three seasons Season 4 is shaping up nicely and could easily end up being the best.

Mitchell82
October 5th, 2007, 09:14 PM
LOL Now that I would have paid to see! :D I do agree this ep was about Weir leaving and Carter arriving *not arriving* but I don't agree that the whole ep was contrived... just bits. :p

Personally out of the three eps I have seen this one is the most like season two...:cool: in that it is formula Stargate, nothing new or exciting happens here that couldn't happen in a dozen other eps...:rolleyes: I liked it but it is the weakest of the three.

This is why I am not a Carl fan he writes formula TV, that is who he is Mr Predictable.;)

Really? I disagree Carl is one of my favorites writers. He does a fine job and this is a shining example. Edit: BTW loving carters new hair style.

Wilson3Girl
October 5th, 2007, 09:17 PM
I really liked the trick Wier played on Oberath,, and how they put it in to the story was great!!

I enjoyed that scene too. Torri and David Ogden Stiers did a great job there.

Ronon had some good scenes too. I liked the scene in Weir's office with Teyla, but I also liked his little scenes with Shep and McKay throughout the episode. I loved it when he was messing around with McKay's stuff in the puddlejumper and McKay said "Stop that!" or "Leave that alone!" or something to that effect. :) I also liked him telling Shep to "make the call" when Elizabeth ran out of the puddlejumper----and Rodney carrying the order out without a word----both exciting and heartbreaking. Also the scene where Ronon and Shep return to the puddlejumper and Elizabeth stays behind to save them......when Rodney asks about Elizabeth, Ronon answered him with such a sad expression, no words needed. :( Next week's episode looks to be Ronon-centric. I thought it looked very interesting.
Edit: Forgot to add my favorite lines of the eppy.
McKay to Shep: "Thanks for the kissing!"
Shep to McKay: "Penetration...."

Wilson3Girl

Freekzilla
October 5th, 2007, 09:17 PM
Well I would be complaining too as I was being forced to implement something I knew that may blow me up. Too smart for his own good.

Yes, but, does he HAVE to do it aaallllllll the time? If it's not about potentially blowing up, it's about not getting his fair share of coffee, or actually have to do his performance evaluations which is part of his job. Instead of yapping about it, why not concentrate on doing everything you can to make sure it doesn't happen? Rodney just needs one of those electric dog collars configured so that if he starts to whine or complain again, it shocks him until he shuts up. It would free up some time for the rest of the cast to get a little screen time. Not to mention I wouldn't go through so much aspirin. ;)

creed462
October 5th, 2007, 09:21 PM
Love the ep, only when they were talking about changing the replicator data I was like no, it not worth the cost, but then there wouln't have been a story. Over all I liked it, and seeing Rodney being told to be quiet priceless

Wilson3Girl
October 5th, 2007, 09:24 PM
Yes, but, does he HAVE to do it aaallllllll the time?
That's Rodney. :) I like the little glimpses of changes we've been seeing, but I don't want him to be too nice. That just makes for a boring Rodney. Besides, his team likes him just the way he is. jmho


Wilson3Girl

Lord batchi ball
October 5th, 2007, 09:31 PM
If rodney would just work on the task at hand and not moan and grone all the time he would be done in a 1/4 of the time it usually takes him.

beneaththeblue
October 5th, 2007, 09:52 PM
If rodney would just work on the task at hand and not moan and grone all the time he would be done in a 1/4 of the time it usually takes him.

And what's with his hair? Looks like they are trying to copy Shep's bed head, and it looks dumb.
But over all, in these first two episodes I thought Rodney was getting better playing well with others-at least not biting everyone's heads off and belittling their ideas. And he wouldn't be Rodney if he didn't ***** and moan about how hard his work is!

Weir was great. Why they can't manage to write her good parts and leave her in place is a mystery to me.

Gate gal
October 5th, 2007, 09:55 PM
Great episode! Elizabeth went out a hero in what was probably one of her finest moments. I love the looks and little moments that past between her and the other characters. I absolutely couldn't believe they actually gave the order to deactivate the nanites, but it was obvious that they didn't want to lose her. It was a good send off. I would have liked to have Teyla on the puddle jumper, but I loved the scene with John leaving her in charge (also loved the moment with Ronan in Elizabeth's office even though it felt a bit premature). I loved seeing Sam arrive in the Pegasus galaxy. I think it was a stroke of genius having Sam planning to return to earth. It will be interesting to see how she ends up taking command of Atlantis. I'm glad that will get attention in a different episode. This episode needed to be all about Elizabeth's sacrifice.

Mitchell82
October 5th, 2007, 09:57 PM
Great episode! Elizabeth went out a hero in what was probably one of her finest moments. I love the looks and little moments that past between her and the other characters. I absolutely couldn't believe they actually gave the order to deactivate the nanites, but it was obvious that they didn't want to lose her. It was a good send off. I would have liked to have Teyla on the puddle jumper, but I loved the scene with John leaving her in charge (also loved the moment with Ronan in Elizabeth's office even though it felt a bit premature). I loved seeing Sam arrive in the Pegasus galaxy. I think it was a stroke of genius having Sam planning to return to earth. It will be interesting to see how she ends up taking command of Atlantis. I'm glad that will get attention in a different episode. This episode needed to be all about Elizabeth's sacrifice.

Agreed it was perfect.

Mattathias2.0
October 5th, 2007, 09:58 PM
Wow Great epsiode. JM promised a excellent season opener and he did it. This two parter was superbly done. Both episodes tied in well together and gave Weir a fine sendoff. Good that we'll see her in two more episodes but I'll wager that if we get a fifth season we won't see any more Weir. Loved the trick she played on Oberoth didn't expect that at all. Loved the interaction with John and Rodney, loved the impact that Weir going MIA had. Nice to see they arent forcing carter into position. As much as I love the first three seasons Season 4 is shaping up nicely and could easily end up being the best.

Ahhhhhhh-greed!

idlewild202
October 5th, 2007, 10:34 PM
Well, the first half of the episode was very predicable to me.... namely the banter between McKay and Sheppard. SEEN IT BEFORE. I was a little dissapointed there.

I absolutely LOVED how they wrote for Elizabeth, that was very well done and I enjoyed it imensly. Too bad she isn't going to be in more episodes further on down the line. They have turned her into one VERY interesting character who could do alot, be it good or bad. The whole mind trick this was awesome, I was totaly not expecting that. Thumbs up there.

Althought Teyla didn't have much screen time I like how she reacted to being told to stay behind, I could almost see how they could possibly take that rejection/dejection of being the stay behind mum and turn it into character development for her. (or is that just wishful thinking.... :rolleyes:)

Ronon, great! I liked how he's becoming more, well, a team player. Heh, I agree with someone else who already posted, he's becoming very good at comforting friends packing up lost friends belongings. It was very Sundayish that sceen....

As for Carter, I dunno... she doesn't really fit yet. I'm not saying much about her yet as I want to wait and see how she really plays into the whole rest of the show.

Overall, a good episode. I gotta admit though, the first half of the episode just let me down. Waaaaay to predicable, I saw everything coming until Weir played the mind trick, then I started enjoying it. :)

Agent_Dark
October 5th, 2007, 10:38 PM
"it looks just like elwnn forest" - ahahhahaha. carter was probably thinking "pfft alliance noob. FOR THE HORDE." or "wow is for noobs" :)


Anyway, fairly prime episode. The fake out against Oberoth was pretty cool, and it was a pretty cool way for Weir to go. Also, the war that's now happening between the Wraith and the Asurans. Should be prime to sit back and pick them off as they fight each other. Only problem is if one side defeats the other and then turns on Atlantis.

Quinn Mallory
October 5th, 2007, 10:47 PM
It definitely seems a bit premature for them to clean out Weir's office given how often characters in the SG universe defies the odd of dying. I like the potential storylines for Weir and I hope they weave it better than the situation for Ford.

I like how the Carter character is not forced on to us although we all know that Gen. Landry is somehow going to decide that Carter is the best person for the job.

Overall, it's a very solid and entertaining episode although I kind of feel that we're going to start running out fresh ways to trick the Replicators.

h4mx0r
October 5th, 2007, 11:06 PM
Oh man, that was brilliant storyboarding. I loved how mr.Replicator thinks he got through the first time, but is actually tricked and seeing weir's illusion.

Oh, and replicator vs wraith = double bonus points!

majorsal
October 5th, 2007, 11:23 PM
k, this is my second ever ep of atlantis. here's my thoughts...

pros:

(((:weir:)))

i knew what was going to happen to her in this, so i was melancholy watching it. i KNOW she's not dead! she's too valuable to the reps and besides, why would they get rid of another potential family member? but i'll say, whatever happens to her in the long run, please don't kill her off.

i'm liking sheppard even more. lovely shep/weir in this too. my mom said, 'he loves her'. :) (btw, this show is new for mom and dad too)

even though mckay was complaining a lot, it made sense! :p

i've not seen enough of teyla to really 'know' her yet for me. same goes for ronan. nice scene with the two of them, mourning their friend in weir's office.

sam! :D i liked all her scenes, and i'm glad she didn't take over in this ep yet. this was weir's story and we needed to grieve.

*great* special effects!

great fake-out by weir too! i didn't see that one coming. ;)


cons:

it ended too fast!!



so all in all, this is a wonderful couple of eps to totally bring me into this show. :D





sally :D

atlantis_babe34
October 5th, 2007, 11:33 PM
Great episode!:D

loved the sceens with elizabeth... Such a sparky ansgsty episode:D


i suspect carter is a secret sparky shipper;):D


10/10:D

Michelle05
October 5th, 2007, 11:40 PM
I liked the ep overall and thought Weir got a very heroic send-off. I feel for her fans, because it's never enough, I know that.

Not a major complaint, but the McKay/Sheppard banter annoyed me for the first time ever. It was so repetitive... "I need more time!" "You don't have more time -- just do it!" "Oh, wait, I'll connect this cell phone to that espresso machine. But, we might blow up!" "Do it anyway, McKay!" "If you insist, but let me remind you, we'll probably blow up." And that all happened like 4 times! Even the funny lines about penetration and kissing, which I would usually have been very grateful for, just came across angry and annoyed to me. Maybe it's my mood. Oh well!

And I didn't think I would say it, but it bothered me to see Carter there in her SGC uniform telling Rodney what to do, eg, to shut down the shield. I mean, why was she even in the city, story-wise? I just did not like that she was ordering him and he did what she said as if she had some authority. They needed some lines to explain what her authority was.

But like I said... I liked it overall. Loved the Replicator city flyovers and the descent and the new planet, too. Ronon was cool as always. And David Ogden Stiers was really good as Oberoth.

garhkal
October 5th, 2007, 11:50 PM
It's time to jack the shields up and see how far it penetrates.

Probabily my fave quote from tonights ep..


Why didnt the anti rep beam effect the nanites in weir? I dont remember it being explained.

Pobabily since she was already inside the jumper when it formed up, she did not have to pass through it...


I would assume the replicators would use drones on there warships since they copied all other technology from the ancients. If so the shields from the Apollo held up pretty well. And here I thought drones were the perfect weapon.

It did look like some drones got fired... But maybe the apollos shields are made of sterner stuff than initially thought.


All I have to say about this episode is: <i><b>Weir kicked A$$!!!!!!</i></b>



That she did.. almost gave me goose bumps from the flashbacks i had when Daniel was in Replicarters world..


I really liked the trick Wier played on Oberath,, and how they put it in to the story was great!!

I thought that scene where Ronan and Shep were running from all the replicators was like a zombie movie it was creepy and very entertaining

Same here.. Though the 'dreamstate one; in which they became active again was fun.. And I loved wier';s trick on oberath.. Fair game and all.


I also liked him telling Shep to "make the call" when Elizabeth ran out of the puddlejumper----and Rodney carrying the order out without a word----both exciting and heartbreaking. Also the scene where Ronon and Shep return to the puddlejumper and Elizabeth stays behind to save them......when Rodney asks about Elizabeth, Ronon answered him with such a sad expression, no words needed.

It looked to me like when rodney was carrying it out he was almost to tears... AND i agree the look Ronon gave him when they got back said everything.


And what's with his hair? Looks like they are trying to copy Shep's bed head, and it looks dumb..


I have no problem with it.. In all honesty how long do you think those two have been up and at it... I doubt they eve have had time for a decent shower.

majorsal
October 5th, 2007, 11:55 PM
a question concerning the ep tonight. at one point, either my cable company of the scifi channel froze, but i could hear the dialog. it was when mckay and weir are in the puddle jumper and weir runs out. i 'heard' mckay say she left, but i didn't get to see it. could someone tell me how this scene went down? did mckay turn and see weir leave? i just want to know how this moment went down.



sally :D

AutumnDream
October 6th, 2007, 12:20 AM
Holy frack, guys...

I haven't loved an episode of Atlantis that much since Season 1. I... I don't even have a huge list of writing flaws to pick apart for once... (Although I am giving it a lot of leeway, since they seem to be trying.)

This is a weird feeling. W-what am I going to do...?

Please, please don't drop the ball now, writers. This show looks to be going to good places! I can handle an overly convenient rescue-in-the-nick-of-time scene every now and then if the episodes remain at this quality!

Also:

; _ ; Weir ; _ ;

Elwynn Forest XD

Radek XD

Teyla + Ronon at the end ; _ ;

The ol' SFX even deserve a mention this week. Usually I find them to be decent, but not outstanding. This time they were great.

jenks
October 6th, 2007, 01:20 AM
I don't see what all the fuss is about to be honest, I thought Adrift was a lot better. A few things irritated me too, Teyla left in charge? Ronon saying 'just answer the damn question!'.... meh

Willow'sCat
October 6th, 2007, 02:36 AM
Really? I disagree Carl is one of my favorites writers. He does a fine job and this is a shining example. Edit: BTW loving carters new hair style.Sorry but I find him the least imaginative of all the SG writers, his writing tends to be predictable imho.

Also the McKay stuff was OTT again... I am hoping beyond hope that Carl didn't get the memo...and his script is the last we see with this OTT McKay because I swear even I wanted to hit him! :eek::p

I don't see what all the fuss is about to be honest, I thought Adrift was a lot better. A few things irritated me too, Teyla left in charge? Ronon saying 'just answer the damn question!'.... mehRonon was a grumpy pants in this one, not sure maybe Jason was having a bad day. But he really got on my nerves in this one.

Basically it was an OK ep but just the same old same old, Adrift was much better... it will be interesting to see where Reunion take us. :)

female Wraith
October 6th, 2007, 02:56 AM
Lifeline was a good episode. The special effects were cool. I liked how Atlantis landed on the surface of the planet:)
I didn't like how they left Weir.

Platschu
October 6th, 2007, 03:51 AM
Perfect episode. 5* ;)

A small mistake. When Oberoth began to catch the team, they showed the stargate in the background. I think they've forgotten that there has to be a bigger room and a long corridor as in Progeny. :o

Agent_Dark
October 6th, 2007, 03:53 AM
A small mistake. When Oberoth began to catch the team, they showed the stargate in the background. I think they've forgotten that there has to be a bigger room and a long corridor as in Progeny. :o

Well that was on their original city ship which got destroyed. They may have redesigned slightly on their new one, if they even built a new one.

Platschu
October 6th, 2007, 03:56 AM
Yes, you are right. The corridors were pulled back, when their cityship flew away. :o

Klenotka
October 6th, 2007, 04:02 AM
One thing that hit me in this episode-Sheppard was so *damn* annyoing in this episode.
I mean, they are trying to write some "teasing" between him and McKay but this wasn´t teasing.
First, Sheppard says to McKay that he doesn´t trust him (and I doubt it has anything to do with nanites, he acted like this before) then he takes Ronon with him instead and tells Rodney to make a miracle in two seconds. When Rodney warns him that it might not work and that it is complicated then he again yells at him and stupidly asks why the hell it doesn´t work! Shouldn´t he be supportive when he is in command? Any personal issues he might have with Rodney should be put aside.
Why didn´t he take Rodney with him? Ronon could have stayed in Jumper.
Press enter to deactivate nanites in Elizabeth´s brain is certainly more simple than to disconnect some generator.

The episode would be great, but this made me angry. And this episode, I have never really think about it before but I think Sheppard isn´t too good in command. He seemed to me almost panicked in some moments.
And as I noticed, he doesn´t have much respect. Ronon and Rodney constantly argue with him and he helps their complains by stupid decisions.

And Rodney? As much as I love, do they have to write him like this? I hope, really, really hope, that this episode will end this. It should be like the official end of S3 and bad writing and next week should start good writing and S4. I hope.

I hope I didn´t touch anyone too much, but this is how I see it, sorry.

Wraith_Boy
October 6th, 2007, 04:27 AM
.
Thats because it was an energy weapon.

Watch 'The Return' then watch the battle scene in 'Lifeline' & you'll clearly see that they were Drones that were fired!

bluealien
October 6th, 2007, 04:36 AM
One thing that hit me in this episode-Sheppard was so *damn* annyoing in this episode.
I mean, they are trying to write some "teasing" between him and McKay but this wasn´t teasing.
First, Sheppard says to McKay that he doesn´t trust him (and I doubt it has anything to do with nanites, he acted like this before) then he takes Ronon with him instead and tells Rodney to make a miracle in two seconds. When Rodney warns him that it might not work and that it is complicated then he again yells at him and stupidly asks why the hell it doesn´t work! Shouldn´t he be supportive when he is in command? Any personal issues he might have with Rodney should be put aside.
Why didn´t he take Rodney with him? Ronon could have stayed in Jumper.
Press enter to deactivate nanites in Elizabeth´s brain is certainly more simple than to disconnect some generator.

The episode would be great, but this made me angry. And this episode, I have never really think about it before but I think Sheppard isn´t too good in command. He seemed to me almost panicked in some moments.
And as I noticed, he doesn´t have much respect. Ronon and Rodney constantly argue with him and he helps their complains by stupid decisions.

And Rodney? As much as I love, do they have to write him like this? I hope, really, really hope, that this episode will end this. It should be like the official end of S3 and bad writing and next week should start good writing and S4. I hope.

I hope I didn´t touch anyone too much, but this is how I see it, sorry.


I really fail to understand your reaction to the Sheppard and McKay interaction and I don't recall Sheppard telling Rodney he didn't trust him... the reason he took Ronan with him was that if they encountered any hostiles Ronan is far more likely to be able to fight than Rodney is. Again I never see Sheppad yelling at Rodney.... Rodney is giving his usual long rambling panicked version of events.. while Sheppard just needs to know the bottom line. Rodney is not some child that gets upset anytime Sheppard has to raise his voice.... he is grown man who seems to hold his own pretty well... and if anyone acts panicky then it's Mckay... but that is just who Rodney is... he raises his voice when he is under pressure and tends to go off on a tangent and needs to be reigned in occasionally.

When has Sheppard made stupid decisions...again if its anything that seems to remotely upset Rodney it's called stupid. I also don't get that he doesn't show respect... Sheppard is in charge and has to give orders and expects them to be followed.. where does he not show respect... I have already explained why he needs to interupt McKays babbling at times because he needs an answer... they are in a life and death crisis situation. I don't hear any complaining about the way that Rodney speaks to Radek at times... and how condesending he is to the people who work for him.

So I really don't think Rodney needs any hand holding, and is not going to fall to pieces because John has to raise his voice to him on occasion. I do agree that the banter becomes a bit much at times and it's the same repetitive scenarios that IMO are being done to death... and in some instances make both characters a bit annoying... but I never doubt the deep friendship and trust that both of them have for each other ..

g.o.d
October 6th, 2007, 04:48 AM
amazing episode. It's in my personal top ten of SGA episodes

Freek
October 6th, 2007, 05:47 AM
One question though: At the end Zelenka says the Asurans are launching a "massive fleet". How can this happen since their fleet has just been blown up by the Apollo?

g.o.d
October 6th, 2007, 05:53 AM
One question though: At the end Zelenka says the Asurans are launching a "massive fleet". How can this happen since their fleet has just been blown up by the Apollo?

I think they built another fleet

Southern Red
October 6th, 2007, 05:55 AM
I was just emotionally gutted after watching this. Thank you Carl Binder for writing Elizabeth as we always knew she could be written. But then, you've done a fine job of writing her in the past also.

If they throw away such a great new character, it will be a shame. The new Weir could add so many levels of intrigue and interest to S5 and beyond.

The emotion from the whole team was just wonderfully acted. JF and JM stand out as particularly excellent in this. John's depth of caring for Elizabeth coupled with his strength and resolve led him to make the hardest decision anyone ever has to make. I love that he was willing to sacrifice her rather than have her live in a way she wouldn't ever want to live. I equate his decision with having to pull the plug when someone you love has no hope of surviving. Truly powerful acting by JF and TH. And also his willingness to sacrifice her to save the city and people that they both love. Thank you again, Carl Binder. Wonderful writing.

I loved the scene between Ronon and Teyla in the office even though it did seem a tad early to be packing up her things.

Loved John standing in Weir's old spot on the balcony probably just letting it all sink in. But I could have done without Carter arriving to interrupt him. Couldn't she have given him a minute alone? Obviously from the nice things she said, she truly understood what he was going through. After all, she's been there herself. And the bit where he congratulates her seemed a little light for the moment also. But that's just me being nitpicky, I suppose.

Rodney, on the other hand, got on my last nerve in this one. Couldn't he, for once, just shut up and get on with it? Even the McShep banter got a bit thick. I'll give them the tense situation and hope they settle down next week.

Overall, this slightly anti-S4 fan is okay so far with the treatment of Weir. Now let's not forget her.

Atlanis
October 6th, 2007, 05:57 AM
If sci-fi can give us more than a fifth season just my watching this ep

Ltcolshepjumper
October 6th, 2007, 06:11 AM
I was just emotionally gutted after watching this. Thank you Carl Binder for writing Elizabeth as we always knew she could be written. But then, you've done a fine job of writing her in the past also.

If they throw away such a great new character, it will be a shame. The new Weir could add so many levels of intrigue and interest to S5 and beyond.

The emotion from the whole team was just wonderfully acted. JF and JM stand out as particularly excellent in this. John's depth of caring for Elizabeth coupled with his strength and resolve led him to make the hardest decision anyone ever has to make. I love that he was willing to sacrifice her rather than have her live in a way she wouldn't ever want to live. I equate his decision with having to pull the plug when someone you love has no hope of surviving. Truly powerful acting by JF and TH. And also his willingness to sacrifice her to save the city and people that they both love. Thank you again, Carl Binder. Wonderful writing.

I loved the scene between Ronon and Teyla in the office even though it did seem a tad early to be packing up her things.

Loved John standing in Weir's old spot on the balcony probably just letting it all sink in. But I could have done without Carter arriving to interrupt him. Couldn't she have given him a minute alone? Obviously from the nice things she said, she truly understood what he was going through. After all, she's been there herself. And the bit where he congratulates her seemed a little light for the moment also. But that's just me being nitpicky, I suppose.

Rodney, on the other hand, got on my last nerve in this one. Couldn't he, for once, just shut up and get on with it? Even the McShep banter got a bit thick. I'll give them the tense situation and hope they settle down next week.

Overall, this slightly anti-S4 fan is okay so far with the treatment of Weir. Now let's not forget her.

yeah, I could have gone without carter filling in Weir's spot. there was no need to rub it in early that she's taking over. As well, notice how she commanded Mckay to lower the shield. As if she was already in command. I think tptb or the directors forgot that she doesn't become leader until the next episode.

BerrySciFi
October 6th, 2007, 06:12 AM
I really fail to understand your reaction to the Sheppard and McKay interaction and I don't recall Sheppard telling Rodney he didn't trust him... the reason he took Ronan with him was that if they encountered any hostiles Ronan is far more likely to be able to fight than Rodney is. Again I never see Sheppad yelling at Rodney.... Rodney is giving his usual long rambling panicked version of events.. while Sheppard just needs to know the bottom line. Rodney is not some child that gets upset anytime Sheppard has to raise his voice.... he is grown man who seems to hold his own pretty well... and if anyone acts panicky then it's Mckay... but that is just who Rodney is... he raises his voice when he is under pressure and tends to go off on a tangent and needs to be reigned in occasionally.

When has Sheppard made stupid decisions...again if its anything that seems to remotely upset Rodney it's called stupid. I also don't get that he doesn't show respect... Sheppard is in charge and has to give orders and expects them to be followed.. where does he not show respect... I have already explained why he needs to interupt McKays babbling at times because he needs an answer... they are in a life and death crisis situation. I don't hear any complaining about the way that Rodney speaks to Radek at times... and how condesending he is to the people who work for him.

So I really don't think Rodney needs any hand holding, and is not going to fall to pieces because John has to raise his voice to him on occasion. I do agree that the banter becomes a bit much at times and it's the same repetitive scenarios that IMO are being done to death... and in some instances make both characters a bit annoying... but I never doubt the deep friendship and trust that both of them have for each other ..

Raising your voice + yelling = semantics. I see little evidence of friendship, love, trust between Shep and McKay anymore. You can be sarcastic to be funny (as I often am), or you can be sarcastic to demean. I find
John's attitude toward Rodney to be pathetic. Rodney has certainly saved Shep and everyone else many times over- one would think a little respect would be in order. Shep was actually my favorite character UNTIL LIFELINE. Their banter has become tiresome, repetitive, and (from Shep) mean spirited. Without Dr. Weir, it seems that Shep has lost the kindness and warmth that made him interesting. Didn't he used to be kind of a cross between Daniel Jackson and Jack O'Neil?

Ltcolshepjumper
October 6th, 2007, 06:13 AM
Watch 'The Return' then watch the battle scene in 'Lifeline' & you'll clearly see that they were Drones that were fired!

No. they were energy. Orange energy. Drones do not fire like that. the Drone would have followed the ship, not gone in a straight path when they missed the ship.

Klenotka
October 6th, 2007, 06:21 AM
And what's with his hair? Looks like they are trying to copy Shep's bed head, and it looks dumb.

His hair looks great :D Finally he has his natural hair and not the stupid military hair-cut. David Hewlett has normally longer hair and very messy. It´s nice they finally got it into show.


I really fail to understand your reaction to the Sheppard and McKay interaction and I don't recall Sheppard telling Rodney he didn't trust him

If I remember, Rodney asked him "you don´t trust me" and Sheppard said something like "no". But I could have understood wrong.


I also don't get that he doesn't show respect... Sheppard is in charge and has to give orders and expects them to be followed.. where does he not show respect.

Vengeance is a good example. Sheppard gives an order and Ronon starts like "you give up" and Teyla hers "I don´t think it´s a wise decision" and blah, blah...I mean, he gives an order and they start to argue with him. It´s not democracy. He should say the order and the other should go and do it, not argue. I heard few times, how Sheppard had to say loud "that´s an order" so Rodney or others would accept it without complaining. I think it´s part of his friendly attitude towards the others and that he still isn´t too comfortable in full command position. He is more friend than a leader. It´s not necessary wrong but in situations like this it causes trouble.

I didn´t mean only Sheppard, their banting was very annoying here. Rodney is babbling and Sheppard stops him and, I am not sure if I heard talk Sheppard in normal tone of voice in whole episode. Even when Rodney did nothing wrong, he is like "it´s not working McKay". But Rodney warned him that if he doesn´t do it by himself that it could be too complicated for Sheppard to do it.
I think that instead of "banting" they should try to listen each other more. Because not all Mckay says is whining and complaining and some information ARE important. And McKay should listening to the orders and say only the important stuff.
Thanks gods that in Doppleganger seemed everything OK.

I liked Ronon here. He seemed as a line between those two. A calm force, holding Sheppard and McKay from each other. I am beginning to really like Ronon in this season :)

g.o.d
October 6th, 2007, 06:30 AM
His hair looks great :D Finally he has his natural hair and not the stupid military hair-cut. David Hewlett has normally longer hair and very messy. It´s nice they finally got it into show.


high and tight for everyone!

meredithchandler73
October 6th, 2007, 06:48 AM
I thought the action was a bit more exciting in Adrift, but I still really enjoyed this episode.

Weir totally *rocked*! Loved her interaction with Oberon. Just like Carson's "send off" - a fabulous episode for the character right before they go away! Well, Carson will be reappearing, so there's always hope for Weir, right?

The Asurans are attacking the Wraith. YAY! Now you know this is somehow going to turn into a bad thing.

Note to the Powers That Be - we've seen all of Dr. Lee that we need to see in the Pegasus galaxy. Send him home. Please.

Love Carter. (Well, I've always loved Carter.) I'm excited to see her actually interacting with the Atlantis team.

The one thing I found a bit jarring - Sheppard was going to leave Teyla in charge of Atlantis in case the mission failed? Like he really has the authority to do that!!!

Heaven
October 6th, 2007, 06:50 AM
Sheppard, Ronon, Mckay and Weir definitely my favorite ever sg team.

P.S can Lee be any more annoying?

Ltcolshepjumper
October 6th, 2007, 06:52 AM
I thought the action was a bit more exciting in Adrift, but I still really enjoyed this episode.

Weir totally *rocked*! Loved her interaction with Oberon. Just like Carson's "send off" - a fabulous episode for the character right before they go away! Well, Carson will be reappearing, so there's always hope for Weir, right?

The Asurans are attacking the Wraith. YAY! Now you know this is somehow going to turn into a bad thing.

Note to the Powers That Be - we've seen all of Dr. Lee that we need to see in the Pegasus galaxy. Send him home. Please.

Love Carter. (Well, I've always loved Carter.) I'm excited to see her actually interacting with the Atlantis team.

The one thing I found a bit jarring - Sheppard was going to leave Teyla in charge of Atlantis in case the mission failed? Like he really has the authority to do that!!!

Uh, yeah, he does have that authority, as ranking military officer and as second senior member of the expedition directly under Weir.

Cautious Explorer
October 6th, 2007, 06:59 AM
The acting was wonderful, the effects were great, but it left me cold. Where's the team? These people don't even seem to like each other. I know they're in a crisis here, but they have been in similar situations before and maintained a sense of camaraderie and a dash of humor.

Poor Teyla was disposed of within the first few minutes of the show. I hope she actually gets to do something this season. Can they only write for one woman per episode? If Weir is featured, then Teyla must be sidelined? I hope they don't continue this when Carter takes command or they might as well have made Teyla a replicator too.

Carter seemed bored by the whole situation. And I wasn't thrilled with the way Dr. Lee's sole purpose was to trail along behind Carter playing the village idiot.

It's too bad they couldn't have taken a moment for reaction from the Atlantis community, rather than Carter conveying Landry's condolences to Sheppard. It would have been nice to see how these people who have been working together for years care about each other.

We did get a brief moment with Teyla and Ronon in Weir's office, but I'm sure that was just because they were not necessary in the control center and it was a way to give them somthing, anything to do. I guess Ronon now has two jobs: fighting and consoling grieving friends. Teyla gets stuck with the same old stuff: stand around and look concerned.

Nex week is Reunion. I predict that Ronon will be angry, Teyla will be concerned, while Sheppard and McKay bicker. Of course, they can't even do this as a team. There will be some convenient reason why Teyla and Ronon must go off on their own, while Sheppard and McKay are called elsewhere.

Roach
October 6th, 2007, 07:15 AM
One question though: At the end Zelenka says the Asurans are launching a "massive fleet". How can this happen since their fleet has just been blown up by the Apollo?

In "First Strike" the time between nothing and the fleet was three weeks. THREE weeks.

The said the PWARW wasn't completed... and yet they wanted to strike, thinking it would be a good thing??

They never said how often they were doing flybys of the planet, but prior to the attack I'm thinking three weeks to build a massive fleet and they think this is a good idea? Right.

How much time between the attack and Atlantis getting to their new homeworld? 3, maybe 4 days tops.

I see NO reason why the replicators couldn't build more ships in that time. If for no other reason then now they are pissed... and would be more determined to go after Earth. So they work faster.

Anyway, that's my though on the whole thing with the old fleet and now this new one.


Now the question I do have - the Replicators were able to figure out how to get thru the AR field... does this now mean the AR weapons, and more importantly the PWARW won't work??

If that's the case, I think that's going to be a big problem.....


-R

jckfan55
October 6th, 2007, 07:21 AM
I thought it was a good episode. I liked Weir's stuff. Very clever with Oberoth. Too bad TPTB seem to step for characters when they're on their way out. :(

Of course falling into their hands wasn't so good--you admire her self sacrifice, but it could have some nasty repercussions for Atlantis.

jckfan55
October 6th, 2007, 07:27 AM
Poor Teyla was disposed of within the first few minutes of the show. I hope she actually gets to do something this season. Can they only write for one woman per episode? If Weir is featured, then Teyla must be sidelined? I hope they don't continue this when Carter takes command or they might as well have made Teyla a replicator too.

I noticed that too. :(


It's too bad they couldn't have taken a moment for reaction from the Atlantis community, rather than Carter conveying Landry's condolences to Sheppard. It would have been nice to see how these people who have been working together for years care about each other.

We did get a brief moment with Teyla and Ronon in Weir's office, but I'm sure that was just because they were not necessary in the control center and it was a way to give them somthing, anything to do. I guess Ronon now has two jobs: fighting and consoling grieving friends. Teyla gets stuck with the same old stuff: stand around and look concerned.

Yeah, as often happens, they put their effort into the action part of the episode and forget some of the character stuff. Probably "cut for time." :rolleyes: I was figuring that they'd deal with some emotional fallout next week. Shepppard did tell Carter he's not giving up, so we did get some reaction there. I think Carter felt a bit awkward about conveying condolences etc. I mean, she hardly knows them. I liked that we didn't get Landry ordering her to take command of Atlantis right away. It looks like it will be a more natural progression. But I am looking forward to seeing how things work out with her and the team. Maybe we'll get some sense of the team missing Weir then.

Ruffles
October 6th, 2007, 07:54 AM
a question concerning the ep tonight. at one point, either my cable company of the scifi channel froze, but i could hear the dialog. it was when mckay and weir are in the puddle jumper and weir runs out. i 'heard' mckay say she left, but i didn't get to see it. could someone tell me how this scene went down? did mckay turn and see weir leave? i just want to know how this moment went down.



sally :D

Yes, he did. He stands up and shouts after he as she runs by but he doesn't leave the jumper.

I did like that John trusted Teyla and values her leadership skills enough to leave her in charge. He would have had that authority to do so as the interim leader and she would have stayed that way until they were found. They would have lost the city and been stranded on that planet so they needed someone that knows how to structure a settlement and prioritize.

I'm going to chalk the harsh interaction between Sheppard and McKay in this one to residue left from Adrift when Rodney defied him and the stress of the overall situation. I think the idea of them having to kill Weir (John give the order and McKay actually pulling the plug) was a huge burden for them to bear and the strain showed.

FoolishPleasure
October 6th, 2007, 08:22 AM
This episode was a big improvement over last week, which I found just a series of hectic scenes strung together without any cohesion.

As others have said, its sad that they made Weir such an interesting character, then dumped her. Would have been cool to have a RepliWeir in Atlantis - they still could have put Carter in charge as folks wouldn't be so apt to trust Weir, but it could have opened some interesting doors. But then, I thought the SuperFord idea was good as well, but he got dumped too.

The whole Rodney/Shep arguing is old. Rodney says they have 30 seconds to do something, then they scream at each other for two minutes. They waste more time arguing. The writers really need to tone it down before I turn against both characters.

Teyla didn't have much to do, but at least reference was made about her good leadership skills, which is something we should have seen more of over the past three years. Just saying someone is a good leader doesn't mean squat unless you actually see them in charge somewhere, and Teyla has been woefully shortchanged in that area.

Cleaning Weir's office didn't bother me, as our group doesn't have the ability to go looking for her anytime soon. Teyla showed more emotion than she did at Carson's casket, and I always enjoy the little tender Teyla/Ronon moments. They are very sweet together despite both of them being fierce warriors. Its a nice touch.

Now the really bad: Carter and Lee

I loved Dr. Lee on SG1, but he doesn't fit here, and I hate to say this, but I hope he is gone soon. Carter doesn't gel either, and her hair. . . .OMG, someone give her some scrunchies and get that hair up properly!

Ltcolshepjumper
October 6th, 2007, 08:27 AM
I agree. Carter and Dr. Lee were a distraction from the true plot of the episode. Carter really doesn't gel as the leader type, despite her "leadership" skills. Wait till Doppleganger.

tagger
October 6th, 2007, 08:32 AM
Beautiful opening CGI of Atlantis shielded in space.

Does Atlantis look like a snowflake/ ice flower? (yeah, I know, not too original, I'm sure it has been said before hehe:rolleyes:).

Nice episode. I liked how Weir tricked the Replicators.

Original mission of the replicators was Wraith-o-cide? Cool.

McKay whining - too predictable for me. "We are out of time, can't be done, have I mentioned we will die, Atlantis will be destroyed, blah, blah, blah."

I feel the same as Sheppard: Sheppard to McWhine (who is whining again): “It never ends with you, you know?”

I like Hewlett and I want to like McKay.:S

Liked the graphics on what Weir could see as a replicator.

Looking forward to next week!

Ltcolshepjumper
October 6th, 2007, 08:34 AM
Great episode... any screencaps, anyone?

justhere1971
October 6th, 2007, 08:35 AM
I agree. Carter and Dr. Lee were a distraction from the true plot of the episode. Carter really doesn't gel as the leader type, despite her "leadership" skills. Wait till Doppleganger.

See I was hoping the unease I saw in DG was because that's the episode that was shot first. Seeing LL I am not so sure anymore. There's no more flow. And Lee! AGHHHHHH!! They took a cute character, an enjoyable one -- and made it annoying in less than 10 minutes of total screen time.

mckaychick
October 6th, 2007, 08:36 AM
i thought that was a great episode

retiredat44
October 6th, 2007, 08:39 AM
I have noticed they spend to much time talking and run kinda slow.... but they do this in lots of episodes on tv when they are going ot die if they don't move faster.. I always think I could run much faster than that or do that faster, sometimes I think they move slow and waste time to burn more time so they don't have to spend more time and money making new scenes to fill in the time they would have if they moved faster to the next scene..

:S

technoextreme
October 6th, 2007, 08:56 AM
One thing that hit me in this episode-Sheppard was so *damn* annyoing in this episode.
I mean, they are trying to write some "teasing" between him and McKay but this wasn´t teasing.
First, Sheppard says to McKay that he doesn´t trust him (and I doubt it has anything to do with nanites, he acted like this before) then he takes Ronon with him instead and tells Rodney to make a miracle in two seconds. When Rodney warns him that it might not work and that it is complicated then he again yells at him and stupidly asks why the hell it doesn´t work! Shouldn´t he be supportive when he is in command? Any personal issues he might have with Rodney should be put aside.
Why didn´t he take Rodney with him? Ronon could have stayed in Jumper.
Press enter to deactivate nanites in Elizabeth´s brain is certainly more simple than to disconnect some generator.

Sheppard doesn't trust McKay because McKay helped convince Sheppard to help him blow up an entire solar system. I also think it partially has to do with the fact that in that situation Weir a million times more informed about the effectiveness of the anti replicator shield than McKay.

Major_Griff
October 6th, 2007, 09:01 AM
I agree. Carter and Dr. Lee were a distraction from the true plot of the episode.

Lee was there for the same reason Woolsey was there in the Return. It's really hard to write a scene, let alon several scenes through out two episodes, with one character in it and be able to convey all the plot information you need to. Carter needed someone to talk to!

kymeric
October 6th, 2007, 09:01 AM
My thoughts:

lol at world of warcraft reference.

The Asurans sure rebuilt their city fast!

After the got there ZPM im all.... theyre gonna make a decision to go off-mission that messes up a perfectly good mission.

I guess trading Wier's life for a fleet of Asurans red hot to exterminate the wraith is a good trade, story wise speaking anyways.

lol at the giant venomous snakes.

I wonder if the Wraith are going to think this is the Ancients returning to fight them after 10,000. Other than the nanites swimming around their organic parts theyre indistinguishable from the ancients. Id bet this stops the wraith civil war and and leads to a wraith asuran war with all the helpless human worlds looking up and saying 'whew'. I am assuming wraith cant feed on asurans despite them being technorganic?

So whats this look like to the wraith? First war with the ancients, they think atlantis is destroyed and go to sleep. 10K yrs later advanced humans from another galaxy populate atlantis, they all go to attack and atlantis seems destroyed, then a year later the ancients return and start attacking them aggressively. Id buy it.

Cautious Explorer
October 6th, 2007, 09:08 AM
Lee was there for the same reason Woolsey was there in the Return. It's really hard to write a scene, let alon several scenes through out two episodes, with one character in it and be able to convey all the plot information you need to. Carter needed someone to talk to!

I agree she needed someone to talk to, but I don't understand why they couldn't allow the man to have some dignity. Having someone on an equal intellectual level as her would have made more sense. Why the need to dumb him down? He's supposed to be bright enough to work for the stargate program, so let him use his brain!

Ltcolshepjumper
October 6th, 2007, 09:11 AM
My thoughts:

lol at world of warcraft reference.

The Asurans sure rebuilt their city fast!

After the got there ZPM im all.... theyre gonna make a decision to go off-mission that messes up a perfectly good mission.

I guess trading Wier's life for a fleet of Asurans red hot to exterminate the wraith is a good trade, story wise speaking anyways.

lol at the giant venomous snakes.

I wonder if the Wraith are going to think this is the Ancients returning to fight them after 10,000. Other than the nanites swimming around their organic parts theyre indistinguishable from the ancients. Id bet this stops the wraith civil war and and leads to a wraith asuran war with all the helpless human worlds looking up and saying 'whew'. I am assuming wraith cant feed on asurans despite them being technorganic?

So whats this look like to the wraith? First war with the ancients, they think atlantis is destroyed and go to sleep. 10K yrs later advanced humans from another galaxy populate atlantis, they all go to attack and atlantis seems destroyed, then a year later the ancients return and start attacking them aggressively. Id buy it.

IF their other ships look lantean enough.

Lord batchi ball
October 6th, 2007, 09:20 AM
I wonder if a Asuran puts its hand in the head of a Wraith if they tap into tha neural network would be able to find all the Wraith and maybe Teyla?

watcher652
October 6th, 2007, 09:30 AM
Some first thoughts.

I was really happy with the way they had Elizabeth behave in this episode. It was so much better than the awful send off Carson had. And they did leave the door open to maybe someday get Elizabeth back. Like that worked out so well with Ford.

Why does John ask Rodney about a situation and get all ticked off when Rodney gives him the worst case scenarios? That's just what Rodney does.

Elizabeth nervously adjusting the hem of her hospital gown was a nice touch.

Ok, this is a stupid thing to notice, but it looks like John got a haircut. It seems shorter on the sides. It didn't seem so noticeable last week.

It didn't bother me that John left Teyla in charge. It's been established previously that she's in charge when Elizabeth and all the other senior staff is gone. It may not sit well back on Earth, but they aren't dealing with them in these situations. And apparently the rest of Atlantis doesn't seem to mind since John said they would need a leader if he and the rest of them didn't make it back.

I realize that they were understaffed back in Atlantis, but you think they could have spared one more person to go on the mission. But I guess they didn't want to drag one more person to most likely die.

Once Rodney established contact with the Replicator computer, why didn't he see what Elizabeth saw? Is it because she had a wider view than he could manage to see on his laptop?

Wow, Elizabeth and Rodney trying to convince John of a plan.

What's with John wondering why Rodney said "penetrate"? That line just threw me out of the story. It's almost like there was a previous scene with the use of that word that got cut out of the show. I can't believe the writers threw that in as a sex reference in that situation. And that made my mind go elsewhere when Rodney mentioned nine levels (it has to be nine?) and when the graphic was used to indicate the shield's, um, penetration thru the city floors.

I knew there was going to be a tech problem when John left Rodney behind. That was such a set up. See, the worst cases do happen!

I hate how the show treats Dr. Lee. I know he's there for comic relief, but does the man get anything right? He's got to have some brains since he's the one Sam always seems to talk to back at the SGC.

John suddenly knows how to program the tablet? Or was he just getting to the root directory and we didn't see Rodney and John going back and forth with directions?

Does John really know where the city was or would that be Rodney?

Hmm, Oberorth has a grudging respect for Elizabeth. Could she somehow use that?

Ha, fake John, Rodney and Ronon smirking at Obertoth.

Elizabeth's last order! And John listened.

That moment of non-responsiveness that Rodney had when Ronon shook his head at Rodney's question about the whereabouts of Elizabeth. That was beautiful.

Did the Apollo had to show up at the end? The guys could have easily made it out of the situation. If you want the Apollo and Atlantis to interact, just have the ship find the city and be preparing to rescue the team when the team makes it back on its own. That would have been better.

The city should skim the surface of the water like a leaf kissing the surface of a pond? What kind of books are you reading, Rodney? Well, the city did bounce a bit when it landed.

Sam was ok until she gave the command to lower the shield. What was that about? Rodney is quite capable of lowering the shield without being told. And he complied without a complaint or even a look. Maybe he was still shell shocked about losing Elizabeth. She would have been the one to give the order.

Whenever John sits in the command chair, it always seems like there should be something more happening. I realize John is using his mind to control the city, but I wish there would be some dialog or graphics or something showing that John is somehow engaged with the city. When we saw what Elizabeth saw earlier when she first made contact with the Replicator city was the first time we could imagine what it might be like for John.

That moment of John sitting in the command chair. What was he thinking? Was he gathering himself after being in contact with the city. Was he thinking about Elizabeth?

Ronon glancing out the door of Elizabeth's office before placing a hand on Teyla's shoulder.

Well, they didn't use up all the ZPM. Thanks for that.

The long range scanners can see the Replicator planet? How far away are they? If Atlantis can see the Replicators, can't the Replicators see them? They have a lot more ZPMs to work with.

Ok, now we have Replicators versus the Wraith. But didn't Oberoth say that they were still working on the final solution to the Wraith problem? What if that was true and even after all this time they weren't quite ready? Did the team send them out too soon?

Sam isn't sticking around? Yeah, right, that's why she's in the opening credits and we see her in next week's promo. Sometimes I forget how much spoiler info I know about the show. Most people watching the show are unaware of what's going to happen.

John made it personal when he said "If there's a chance she's still alive, I'll find her." Not "we'll find her." Nice.

s09119
October 6th, 2007, 09:37 AM
My thoughts:

lol at world of warcraft reference.

The Asurans sure rebuilt their city fast!

We know that the Apollo's nukes all hit a relatively small area of the planet. Maybe this was on the other side of it? After all, we didn't see the psuedo-Atlantis the Asurans had this time around.


After the got there ZPM im all.... theyre gonna make a decision to go off-mission that messes up a perfectly good mission.

I guess trading Wier's life for a fleet of Asurans red hot to exterminate the wraith is a good trade, story wise speaking anyways.

That was my reaction, as well. Weir may be gone, but McKay was right; the mission was well-worth Dr. Weir's loss, even though I'll miss her immensely.


I wonder if the Wraith are going to think this is the Ancients returning to fight them after 10,000. Other than the nanites swimming around their organic parts theyre indistinguishable from the ancients. Id bet this stops the wraith civil war and and leads to a wraith asuran war with all the helpless human worlds looking up and saying 'whew'. I am assuming wraith cant feed on asurans despite them being technorganic?

So whats this look like to the wraith? First war with the ancients, they think atlantis is destroyed and go to sleep. 10K yrs later advanced humans from another galaxy populate atlantis, they all go to attack and atlantis seems destroyed, then a year later the ancients return and start attacking them aggressively. Id buy it.

Agreed. But the sad part is, TPTB probably won't even consider showing us how the Wraith react to this.

Klenotka
October 6th, 2007, 09:45 AM
Sheppard doesn't trust McKay because McKay helped convince Sheppard to help him blow up an entire solar system. I also think it partially has to do with the fact that in that situation Weir a million times more informed about the effectiveness of the anti replicator shield than McKay.

Yeah, yeah, this old "he destroyed the solar system" thing.:rolleyes: I didn´t notice that someone would blame Carter for almost giving SGC base to enemy, or that she destroyed sun, too. But she had, of course, help in Asgards who came to help.
Sorry, couldn´t resist.:D
I think it´s time to move on. Everybody makes mistakes, and I have no idea why everybody reminds this one to Rodney (he had support in Caldwell, btw., and didn´t have to convince him at all), when he isn´t the only one who makes mistakes. I think all members of Atlantis expedition have some things they can´t be proud of. Whole fiasko with Michael is a good example. But I don´t think it´s necessary bad thing. It makes them more human. People with weaknesses, making bad decisions under pressure. I think it´s nice change.

Truth is, that the McKay/Sheppard thing was overused here. So much that it became annoying. McKay did what he is usually doing bc, he says valuable information. That Sheppard ignores them and then is suprised that it doesn´t work is his problem. But McKay whinning and complaining was terribly used here, too. I mean, what is the point in "moment of suprise" mission, when they spend five minutes with arguing? I think both have to be blamed, not only McKay or only Sheppard. Rodney should simply listen to the orders and minimize babbling to necessary information. And Sheppard should really listen to what Rodney says, so he can´t be suprised later that something went wrong.

But, as I said, I hope this ends in this episode and they will finally start write them normal and develop a little.

technoextreme
October 6th, 2007, 10:05 AM
Yeah, yeah, this old "he destroyed the solar system" thing. I didn´t notice that someone would blame Carter for almost giving SGC base to enemy, or that she destroyed sun, too. But she had, of course, help in Asgards who came to help.
Sorry, couldn´t resist.
Well I don't think Carter acted like a pompous arrogant ass. Not only that but remember what Sheppard said to McKay. He was crashing and burning and he didn't even realize it.

rpmguitar
October 6th, 2007, 10:08 AM
1) the whole asuran fleet thing... I'm thinking they had a fleet of aurora class ships. the first strike was there to take out the city ships so that they couldnt get to earth as easily.

2)I liked this ep alot, but i agree with those saying that adrift was better.

3)I like that the sheppard mckay relationship is still strained. shep clearly (to me anyway) felt betrayed when mckay activated weirs nanites and made him take on the role of bad guy that needed to give the call to turn them off. I jut hope that there is something in the next few eps to repair the relaionship.

4)ronan gets more and more interesting every episode. he seems like he's getting more comfortable as a member of the atlantis comunity. it's good to get to see him as something other than angry caveman guy.

5)the only thing that bothers me about carter in atlantis is that she is always right. I'd like to see her do something that turns out to be massively wrong. it would make her character interesting again.

Michelle05
October 6th, 2007, 10:09 AM
<snip>Shep was actually my favorite character UNTIL LIFELINE. Their banter has become tiresome, repetitive, and (from Shep) mean spirited. Without Dr. Weir, it seems that Shep has lost the kindness and warmth that made him interesting. Didn't he used to be kind of a cross between Daniel Jackson and Jack O'Neil?

I have to agree on the tiresome part, although I never saw Sheppard as much like Daniel... But on the positive side, I've seen Doppelganger and my impression was:

Their friendship is very strong in that one, with none of this repetitive sniping.

s09119
October 6th, 2007, 10:11 AM
5)the only thing that bothers me about carter in atlantis is that she is always right. I'd like to see her do something that turns out to be massively wrong. it would make her character interesting again.

What do you mean "always right"? She did one thing right, yes, but it's 1 of 1 for her so far. She hasn't had a chance to be "always right" yet, IMHO.

Night Marshal
October 6th, 2007, 10:12 AM
good bye Weir don't feel the need to come back

Ltcolshepjumper
October 6th, 2007, 10:14 AM
1) the whole asuran fleet thing... I'm thinking they had a fleet of aurora class ships. the first strike was there to take out the city ships ?so that they couldnt get to earth as easily.

2)I liked this ep alot, but i agree with those saying that adrift was better.

3)I like that the sheppard mckay relationship is still strained. shep clearly (to me anyway) felt betrayed when mckay activated weirs nanites and made him take on the role of bad guy that needed to give the call to turn them off. I jut hope that there is something in the next few eps to repair the relaionship.

4)ronan gets more and more interesting every episode. he seems like he's getting more comfortable as a member of the atlantis comunity. it's good to get to see him as something other than angry caveman guy.

5)the only thing that bothers me about carter in atlantis is that she is always right. I'd like to see her do something that turns out to be massively wrong. it would make her character interesting again.

Cityships? The ASurans only have one cityship. As for the fleet, the original one that was nuked was a group of Aurora class warships, judging from the screen in first strike. the ones in lifeline were probably Aurora class, but I bet many of them were like the one which almost destroyed Shep's jumper. It seems that the Asurans planned to attack Earth (maybe). But, the chances of that happening are slim. Then, they quickly created a new class of defense ships which are stationed in Asuras' orbit in case Earth decided to attack again.
Also, I am wary of Perfect Sam.

Sweetsong
October 6th, 2007, 10:41 AM
I sort of figured Sam would get some kind of promotion before taking over as leader of Atlantis, I guess a "full bird colonel" is it, I was kinda hoping she'd become a general, at least I can hope that the show lasts long enough for us to see her attain that rank.

Famous
October 6th, 2007, 10:48 AM
I liked Lifeline quite a bit, but I think that Adrift was the better episode.

Issues I had with the Episode:

- I understand why there was a lack of humor/banter between McKay and Sheppard in this episode(after the whole reactivating Weir's nanites thing in Adrift), but the lack of usual banter/humor that typically happens between Shep/Rodney really hurt the episode IMO.

- Maybe I'm imagining this, and it has been a while since I saw Progeny, but wasn't the everything on the Replicator planet made out of nanites, not just the Replicators themselves? If that's true, shouldn't the structure of the Replicator city affected by the ARG shield have collapsed like the Replicators inside it did? I know it's nitpicking, but it bugged me :P

- The Carter Sue(Mary Sue / Carter Sue :P) issue that others brought up. I like Carter, but it seems like she's been this way for a while(going back to the last few seasons of SG-1). It would be nice to see the real/human Sam Carter, and not Wonderwoman as Sam Carter all the time.

Positives:

- The Weir/Oberoth part of the episode, the action sequences, and the special effects(the landing at the end was great). The episode as a whole was really strong, just a few mostly minor things that bugged me about it. I'm excited about where the season is headed. :D

Ltcolshepjumper
October 6th, 2007, 10:50 AM
I liked Lifeline quite a bit, but I think that Adrift was the better episode.

Issues I had with the Episode:

- I understand why there was a lack of humor/banter between McKay and Sheppard in this episode(after the whole reactivating Weir's nanites thing in Adrift), but the lack of usual banter/humor that typically happens between Shep/Rodney really hurt the episode IMO.

- Maybe I'm imagining this, and it has been a while since I saw Progeny, but wasn't the everything on the Replicator planet made out of nanites, not just the Replicators themselves? If that's true, shouldn't the structure of the Replicator city affected by the ARG shield have collapsed like the Replicators inside it did? I know it's nitpicking, but it bugged me :P

- The Carter Sue(Mary Sue / Carter Sue :P) issue that others brought up. I like Carter, but it seems like she's been this way for a while(going back to the last few seasons of SG-1). It would be nice to see the real/human Sam Carter, and not Wonderwoman as Sam Carter all the time.

Positives:

- The Weir/Oberoth part of the episode, the action sequences, and the special effects(the landing at the end was great). The episode as a whole was really strong, just a few mostly minor things that bugged me about it. I'm excited about where the season is headed. :D

No, Asuras' megacity is made out of conventional materials, same as Atlantis.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 6th, 2007, 10:52 AM
I sort of figured Sam would get some kind of promotion before taking over as leader of Atlantis, I guess a "full bird colonel" is it, I was kinda hoping she'd become a general, at least I can hope that the show lasts long enough for us to see her attain that rank.

1, she would never get promoted two ranks at once. That's absurd.
2, I don't want her to get the rank of general. EVER.

Sweetsong
October 6th, 2007, 11:01 AM
I don't want her to get the rank of general. EVER.


Could you elaborate on that? It is true Generals are normally shown to be making the tough decisions, and the people who are to follow them then decide whether or not the situation merits it for them to do so. Now do you think this would turn Sam into "The man/Bad Guy" or do you just not like the idea of the character becoming a General in general? =p

Xicer
October 6th, 2007, 11:13 AM
Realistically, it wouldn't make any sense that she would jump from Lt. Colonel to Brigadier General in only 3-4 years.

prion
October 6th, 2007, 11:40 AM
Great episode... any screencaps, anyone?

Have some over at http://wraithfodder.livejournal.com/120736.html


Yes, he did. He stands up and shouts after he as she runs by but he doesn't leave the jumper.

I did like that John trusted Teyla and values her leadership skills enough to leave her in charge. He would have had that authority to do so as the interim leader and she would have stayed that way until they were found. They would have lost the city and been stranded on that planet so they needed someone that knows how to structure a settlement and prioritize.

I'm going to chalk the harsh interaction between Sheppard and McKay in this one to residue left from Adrift when Rodney defied him and the stress of the overall situation. I think the idea of them having to kill Weir (John give the order and McKay actually pulling the plug) was a huge burden for them to bear and the strain showed.

I figure everybody was under intense stress, and I don't think Sheppard can forget that Rodney does have a huge ego which has at times failed him ("Trinity"), plus ROdney directed disobeyed Sheppard's orders about the nanites and Weir. It's stress, pure and simple.

And, out of curiosity, once they landed in the water, why did Carter tell Rodney to lower the shield (besides giving carter something to say)? Shouldn't they have checked for damage first??

prion
October 6th, 2007, 11:44 AM
Realistically, it wouldn't make any sense that she would jump from Lt. Colonel to Brigadier General in only 3-4 years.

They're pushing the promotion to full bird colonel as it is (although I suppose we'll find out after season 4 is all said and done that she did something in the movie to deserve the promotion). So anybody watching SGA will go "huh what?" when she's still a Lt Colonel in the movies, unless she got promoted before the movies...

Jumper_One
October 6th, 2007, 11:45 AM
I sort of figured Sam would get some kind of promotion before taking over as leader of Atlantis, I guess a "full bird colonel" is it, I was kinda hoping she'd become a general, at least I can hope that the show lasts long enough for us to see her attain that rank.

like others have already said it's unrealistic to get promoted 2 ranks at once. also I doubt we'll ever see Carter as a Brigadier General. think about it. O'Neill got promoted to General after at least 8 years of being a Colonel. why should Carter attain that rank any faster? so unless there'll be a season 10, 11 and 12 of Atlantis my guess is we gotta live with Carter being a full-bird Colonel. which I'm totally okay with btw

Jumper_One
October 6th, 2007, 11:53 AM
And, out of curiosity, once they landed in the water, why did Carter tell Rodney to lower the shield (besides giving carter something to say)? Shouldn't they have checked for damage first??

I guess she just wanted to save power. that's why she told him to lower the shields. besides there's no point of having the shields up when there's no threat of some kind

Mattathias2.0
October 6th, 2007, 12:13 PM
And, out of curiosity, once they landed in the water, why did Carter tell Rodney to lower the shield (besides giving carter something to say)? Shouldn't they have checked for damage first??

1. Given they have already landed, and none of their enemies is aware of their location. There is no point in keeping the shield up;
2. Because of 1, they have time to figure out damage and repairs;
3. So with 1 and 2. I don't see the necessity of keeping the shield up.

Killdeer
October 6th, 2007, 12:42 PM
Oh wow. I am not even ready to be rational about this episode. Still fighting the tears. I knew this was coming and was completely spoiled for it, and yet...

I started crying in the scene near the beginning where they're walking to the jumper and they had the shot of John and Elizabeth walking side by side. It was a flashback to Conversion, only roles reversed. And also, this is her last time on Atlantis (as far as we know).

I don't know. I guess I don't have many problems with this episode-right now I'm kind of overwhelmed by the "losing Elizabeth" thing, even though I knew it was coming. She was great in the role though, but....wow, I want her back. :(

Rodney was, even for Rodney, a little OTT with the objections. Ronon was in a bad mood (anyone notice that Zelenka seems scared of him?), although the scene with him and Teyla at the end was nice. Teyla was fighting the tears so hard. I wish John had fought harder not to leave Elizabeth-it looked like Ronon dragged him away, but I couldn't tell for sure, so I wish they'd showed that struggle a little more.

I didn't have a lot of problems with Sam here, except I wish they'd stop writing her such clumsy dialogue. I do like Dr Lee - I've enjoyed Sam and Dr Lee - I kind of get a John and Rodney vibe from them a little bit, especially the way she shut him down - "Bill!", very reminiscent of John's way of shutting Rodney down. ;) And the gate! On the planet! It was WAY too small! Oh my goodness! When did they start making mini-gates??

Oh dear. Now I'm totally depressed. I knew this was coming, but actually seeing it......:(

Ruffles
October 6th, 2007, 12:55 PM
Elizabeth nervously adjusting the hem of her hospital gown was a nice touch.

Wow, Elizabeth and Rodney trying to convince John of a plan.

Ha, fake John, Rodney and Ronon smirking at Obertoth.

Elizabeth's last order! And John listened.

That moment of non-responsiveness that Rodney had when Ronon shook his head at Rodney's question about the whereabouts of Elizabeth. That was beautiful.

The city should skim the surface of the water like a leaf kissing the surface of a pond? What kind of books are you reading, Rodney? Well, the city did bounce a bit when it landed.

Sam was ok until she gave the command to lower the shield. What was that about? Rodney is quite capable of lowering the shield without being told. And he complied without a complaint or even a look. Maybe he was still shell shocked about losing Elizabeth. She would have been the one to give the order.

That moment of John sitting in the command chair. What was he thinking? Was he gathering himself after being in contact with the city. Was he thinking about Elizabeth?

Ronon glancing out the door of Elizabeth's office before placing a hand on Teyla's shoulder.

John made it personal when he said "If there's a chance she's still alive, I'll find her." Not "we'll find her." Nice.

I really like your points here, especially the ones bolded. Something for me to keep in mind when I watch it again.

gopher65
October 6th, 2007, 01:12 PM
I disliked the majority of this episode. I have a few reasons:

1) Rodney's whining: Bad acting on the part of David. Normally I love Rodney, but I wanted to rip his head off in this episode. He was SO FREAKING ANNOYING. Think you could tone it down a bit David? Thanks.

2) Thoughtlessness on the part of the characters: Bad writing. The characters were... stupid in this episode. No other word for it. It was like the had an omnipotent DM standing over them railroading their every move. They had multiple possible choices in every situation, yet they were too stupid to realize it. Of course this isn't the actors fault, it is the writers. Why didn't they jump to the nearest gate, use it to go to midway, and get one of the 2 full ZMPs that Earth has? They'd only need it for a few minutes, then they could give it back. Honestly, how stupid are these characters?

3) Bad Timing: This is, I think, a problem with the direction and editing of this episode. Why did they have Rodney figure out how to do something, THEN take 2 minutes to explain how it was a life threatening situation and they didn't have a moment to spare? How hard would it have been to show him explaining how they didn't have a moment to spare WHILE HE WAS WORKING? And then of course, every time there was a dangerous moment, all the characters stopped working and stood around having a discussion about whether or not they should keep working. *Boggle* This killed the ep for me.

4) Bad acting: Both Oberoth and Ellis sounded like they'd received their scripts ten minutes beforehand, and were getting offstage cues. That was some of the worst acting I have seen on Stargate. Ever.

prion
October 6th, 2007, 01:14 PM
1. Given they have already landed, and none of their enemies is aware of their location. There is no point in keeping the shield up;
2. Because of 1, they have time to figure out damage and repairs;
3. So with 1 and 2. I don't see the necessity of keeping the shield up.


I guess she just wanted to save power. that's why she told him to lower the shields. besides there's no point of having the shields up when there's no threat of some kind

I wasn't thinking threats, but perhaps structural damage to the city from the asteroid field. They didn't give any indication they were doing anything about repairs or searching out damage. I do get the feeling sam gave the order as otherwise, she would have just sat there and said nothing, and that wouldn't have looked good. If they'd added in a line about the city's integrity, it would have been better.




like others have already said it's unrealistic to get promoted 2 ranks at once. also I doubt we'll ever see Carter as a Brigadier General. think about it. O'Neill got promoted to General after at least 8 years of being a Colonel. why should Carter attain that rank any faster? so unless there'll be a season 10, 11 and 12 of Atlantis my guess is we gotta live with Carter being a full-bird Colonel. which I'm totally okay with btw


If she gets promoted to colonel, she'd be booted out of the field, just like Jack, to a desk job somewhere back on Earth.

Mattathias2.0
October 6th, 2007, 01:19 PM
I wasn't thinking threats, but perhaps structural damage to the city from the asteroid field. They didn't give any indication they were doing anything about repairs or searching out damage. I do get the feeling sam gave the order as otherwise, she would have just sat there and said nothing, and that wouldn't have looked good. If they'd added in a line about the city's integrity, it would have been better.

If she gets promoted to colonel, she'd be booted out of the field, just like Jack, to a desk job somewhere back on Earth.

To be honest, we already have a good idea of how damaged the city is. It wouldn't help the plot either because keeping the city intact had only become second to their survival. So, they landed on the planet, the city is stable (as seen), so now they have time to figure that complication out.

EDIT: Remember during The Siege about how they were willing to have the city self-destruct so that the Wraith could not get to Earth, and destroy our civilization as a race? The city is expendable (to an extent, because the show is called Stargate: Atlantis).

lord-anubis
October 6th, 2007, 01:21 PM
i thought this weeks ep was better then last. it said to see weir im sure she well be back. so if the Replicators are now progamed to attack the warith does that mean there not going to borther atlantis at least until there done with the warith.

Klenotka
October 6th, 2007, 01:33 PM
I disliked the majority of this episode. I have a few reasons:

1) Rodney's whining: Bad acting on the part of David. Normally I love Rodney, but I wanted to rip his head off in this episode. He was SO FREAKING ANNOYING. Think you could tone it down a bit David? Thanks.

I think they were both annoying, Sheppard and McKay...oh, sorry, do I repeat myself? :D

Who did write this episode anyway? I think that writer doesn´t know those characters too well.

Lord batchi ball
October 6th, 2007, 01:46 PM
i thought this weeks ep was better then last. it said to see weir im sure she well be back. so if the Replicators are now progamed to attack the warith does that mean there not going to borther atlantis at least until there done with the warith.

I liked this episode more than lasts weeks.

but the whining did get a little extensive.

all and all it was a great episode!!!:D:D:D

Killdeer
October 6th, 2007, 01:47 PM
I think they were both annoying, Sheppard and McKay...oh, sorry, do I repeat myself? :D

Who did write this episode anyway? I think that writer doesn´t know those characters too well.

Carl Binder wrote this ep, and he's the same one who wrote Echoes.

Skydiver
October 6th, 2007, 02:39 PM
people don't just jump from lt colonel to general over night. There are requirements to be met, the least of which it time in service and time in grade...and sam obviously meets those for the rank of colonel, she doesn't for general.

Unless the show is on the air for 5 more years, the only way we'll see sam as a general is if there's something set in the future.

One thing the military does do is 'sunset promotions'...basically give you a step up in rank as you retire. it's just a way to give you extra money a month as part of your pension without you ever having to serve in the rank that you retire in

I liked the second part better than the first...but that is a trademark with these show runners...teh first part is almost always weaker because it's 80% setup for part two.

I think the one thing that really got on my nerves was rodney. ok, so we know that we only have 20 seconds before the ship explodes....so do you REALLY have to spend 19 of those telling us teh how's and why's????

give that dude some valium or ritalyn please.

the only other thing that bugged me was, enough wtih the 'rewind to show you the real happenings' trick. cool the first time, but it's getting overused. put that particular crutch back in the closet please and find another trick

ooh, and did anyone else think...on the new planet, when they're talking about the 'giant venomous snake like creature' that maybe they were taking a dig at MS Megasnake?

Linzi
October 6th, 2007, 03:07 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. I thought it was equally as good as Adrift.

I felt it was a more story driven episode, and enjoyed all of the characters here.

My favourite bits?

Hmmm, I loved the Shep/McKay interaction here. I know some get tired of them, but not me :)

I thought it was a good send off for Weir, and I'm keen to know what's in her future, whereas I didn't really care prior to the episode. I liked that she sacrifced herself for the expedition and team. I didn't expect her to, but liked that she did.

I liked Carter here, and particularly liked her last scene with Sheppard on the balcony. The two have great chemistry, and I think they'll have a good working relationship. I liked Sheppard's determination to find Weir if she's still out there, and liked Carter's understanding that he'd do that. :)

I am really beginning to like the replicators now, and Oberoth was particularly good here. I liked the way Weir tricked him. I wasn't expecting that, and was impressed. Good twist, I thought.

I love the city landing in the water, and enjoyed the scenes as it sailed or was it plummeted, through the clouds.

Venemous snake creatures? Sounds good to me! :lol:

Overall, a very strong episode. A good send off for Weir and good introduction for Carter. Great stuff from Shep and McKay, with good support from Ronon and Teyla. I look forward to Reunion! :)

P-90_177
October 6th, 2007, 03:11 PM
what i liked is how sam was not immediately placed in charge of atlantis like: oh look weirs gone, now i'm in charge. instead it's being done much more subtly with carter going back to earth and i guess being re-assigned by landry.

AutumnDream
October 6th, 2007, 03:26 PM
I was thinking it'd be cool if it actually wasn't the Ancients who deactivated the Wraith aggression code. OoOoOo... a mystery.


yeah, I could have gone without carter filling in Weir's spot. there was no need to rub it in early that she's taking over. As well, notice how she commanded Mckay to lower the shield. As if she was already in command. I think tptb or the directors forgot that she doesn't become leader until the next episode.

She was ranking officer on base, that's how it goes. You're expected to step up and take command.



John's attitude toward Rodney to be pathetic. Rodney has certainly saved Shep and everyone else many times over- one would think a little respect would be in order. Shep was actually my favorite character UNTIL LIFELINE. Their banter has become tiresome, repetitive, and (from Shep) mean spirited. Without Dr. Weir, it seems that Shep has lost the kindness and warmth that made him interesting. Didn't he used to be kind of a cross between Daniel Jackson and Jack O'Neil?

Dude, he was losing his sweetie-pie. Yeah, I'd be irritable.



The one thing I found a bit jarring - Sheppard was going to leave Teyla in charge of Atlantis in case the mission failed? Like he really has the authority to do that!!!

He does.


The acting was wonderful, the effects were great, but it left me cold. Where's the team? These people don't even seem to like each other. I know they're in a crisis here, but they have been in similar situations before and maintained a sense of camaraderie and a dash of humor.

And it's about time the writers drop the cutesy stuff that totally robs the situation of any real drama and write crises that actually have the characters on edge! I welcome it.



Poor Teyla was disposed of within the first few minutes of the show. I hope she actually gets to do something this season. Can they only write for one woman per episode? If Weir is featured, then Teyla must be sidelined? I hope they don't continue this when Carter takes command or they might as well have made Teyla a replicator too.

Too bad they didn't cut over to Atlantis to show Teyla actually making a couple tough command decisions.



Nex week is Reunion. I predict that Ronon will be angry, Teyla will be concerned, while Sheppard and McKay bicker. Of course, they can't even do this as a team.

Yup... I'm hoping S4 will change this status quo.


I was figuring that they'd deal with some emotional fallout next week.

Don't get too optimistic now. They probably won't even mention her, if past writing is any indication.



I'm going to chalk the harsh interaction between Sheppard and McKay in this one to residue left from Adrift when Rodney defied him and the stress of the overall situation. I think the idea of them having to kill Weir (John give the order and McKay actually pulling the plug) was a huge burden for them to bear and the strain showed.

Precisely!



5)the only thing that bothers me about carter in atlantis is that she is always right. I'd like to see her do something that turns out to be massively wrong. it would make her character interesting again.

Gemini.


good bye Weir don't feel the need to come back

I think there are trolling courses available at 4chan.



1) Rodney's whining: Bad acting on the part of David. Normally I love Rodney, but I wanted to rip his head off in this episode. He was SO FREAKING ANNOYING. Think you could tone it down a bit David? Thanks.


4) Bad acting: Both Oberoth and Ellis sounded like they'd received their scripts ten minutes beforehand, and were getting offstage cues. That was some of the worst acting I have seen on Stargate. Ever.

What's DH gonna do with the 50 pages of banter they wrote for him? He has two choices; A) Read it flat and make it sound even more like the dull exposition it is, or B) Read it with some urgency and - just maybe - keep the tension up a little.

Oberoth was fine as far as I'm concerned. Ellis is okayish, but none can defeat the awful acting of that Tok'ra woman from that SG-1 episode where Teal'c finds the legions of dead/poisoned Jaffa.

Leliana McKay
October 6th, 2007, 03:33 PM
what i liked is how sam was not immediately placed in charge of atlantis like: oh look weirs gone, now i'm in charge. instead it's being done much more subtly with carter going back to earth and i guess being re-assigned by landry.

Yeah I liked that too. Hopefully they will do a gradual change of leadership. I'm not sure how many people on Atlantis will see Carter as an intruder?
I'm still very sad about Elizabeth's capture by the replicators. Did you see Rodney's face when Ronon and Sheppard came back without her? It was heartbreaking. I am very intrigued as to what is going to happen to her.
Teyla and Ronon were very touching too. A moving episode that's for sure.
On the fun size, yeah Rodney's choice of words has been hilarious. The slashers around are having a fit... "penetrate". "kissing". lol
Torri rocked in this episode. More repliWeir, please!
I would say 9/10 for Lifeline. Can't wait for the next episode...;)

Mitchell82
October 6th, 2007, 04:04 PM
One thing that hit me in this episode-Sheppard was so *damn* annyoing in this episode.
Did we watch the same episode? I didn't think he was annoying at all.


First, Sheppard says to McKay that he doesn´t trust him (and I doubt it has anything to do with nanites, he acted like this before) then he takes Ronon with him instead and tells Rodney to make a miracle in two seconds.
Rodney was the only one that could set the kill switch. It was realisitic for him to remain and Ronon is far better in combat if it was neccesary.


When Rodney warns him that it might not work and that it is complicated then he again yells at him and stupidly asks why the hell it doesn´t work! Shouldn´t he be supportive when he is in command? Any personal issues he might have with Rodney should be put aside.
He was supportive and Rodney said it would be simple not complicated. The complications arrose when it didn't work right. I would have been frustrated as well considering attack was imminant.



Why didn´t he take Rodney with him? Ronon could have stayed in Jumper.
Press enter to deactivate nanites in Elizabeth´s brain is certainly more simple than to disconnect some generator.
Sorry but Rodney is better qualified to do that as it was shown it wasnt that simple.


The episode would be great, but this made me angry. And this episode, I have never really think about it before but I think Sheppard isn´t too good in command. He seemed to me almost panicked in some moments.
And as I noticed, he doesn´t have much respect. Ronon and Rodney constantly argue with him and he helps their complains by stupid decisions
WHAT?! Sheppard is great in command and when did Ronon argue with him? Ronon supports Shep and the only instance I can think of is when Ronon said make the call. It was difficult for him to do that but they didn't argue. Rodney and Shep get into it from time to time but that's not a big deal and what stupid decisions? He made all the right calls some being very difficult for him.



And Rodney? As much as I love, do they have to write him like this? I hope, really, really hope, that this episode will end this. It should be like the official end of S3 and bad writing and next week should start good writing and S4. I hope.

I hope I didn´t touch anyone too much, but this is how I see it, sorry.

Sorry I don't see it. This episode was not written badly at all.

Mitchell82
October 6th, 2007, 04:08 PM
Sheppard doesn't trust McKay because McKay helped convince Sheppard to help him blow up an entire solar system. I also think it partially has to do with the fact that in that situation Weir a million times more informed about the effectiveness of the anti replicator shield than McKay.

That too. It's gonna take time to develop that trust again and it didn't help when he put the whole city at risk. I thought both Adrift and Lifeline were done very well and a great start to the season. I love the new planet and the night vis effects are pretty sweet.

garhkal
October 6th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Well that was on their original city ship which got destroyed. They may have redesigned slightly on their new one, if they even built a new one.


That is true. Though i also thought this 'city' was a lot different from the one we saw in Progeny. heck i saw lots of greenery (land mass) around it and between the buildings.


One question though: At the end Zelenka says the Asurans are launching a "massive fleet". How can this happen since their fleet has just been blown up by the Apollo?

Perhaps A) they had more ships being built than what we saw in First strike, and B) they are fast builders.. Heck they managed to rebuild the central spire control room in the return part 2 very quickly..



Loved John standing in Weir's old spot on the balcony probably just letting it all sink in. But I could have done without Carter arriving to interrupt him. .

IIRC it was Carter standing outside, and Shep came out..


As well, notice how she commanded Mckay to lower the shield. As if she was already in command. I think tptb or the directors forgot that she doesn't become leader until the next episode.

IMO that was cause she was the senior military persn there, and as such she had temp command.



I wonder if the Wraith are going to think this is the Ancients returning to fight them after 10,000. Other than the nanites swimming around their organic parts theyre indistinguishable from the ancients. Id bet this stops the wraith civil war and and leads to a wraith asuran war with all the helpless human worlds looking up and saying 'whew'. I am assuming wraith cant feed on asurans despite them being technorganic? .


I could easily see this stopping the wraith civil war and them going back to a full on war time footing with many more planets getting totally culled out.. And as to the feeding.. Not sure..



Hmm, Oberorth has a grudging respect for Elizabeth. Could she somehow use that?

Ha, fake John, Rodney and Ronon smirking at Obertoth.

Elizabeth's last order! And John listened.

I would hope that oberath now shows more respect to wier cause of it. And that smirk when she was faking out oberath was well worth it. As to the last order, imo that was the only tear jerky moment in the ep.



Whenever John sits in the command chair, it always seems like there should be something more happening. I realize John is using his mind to control the city, but I wish there would be some dialog or graphics or something showing that John is somehow engaged with the city. When we saw what Elizabeth saw earlier when she first made contact with the Replicator city was the first time we could imagine what it might be like for John.

I too would like them to show us more of what is going on, and i also wonder why the chair constantly spins around like it did..

Killdeer
October 6th, 2007, 04:25 PM
IIRC it was Carter standing outside, and Shep came out.

No, it was definitely John out there first. Carter came out to let him know that they'd reestablished contact with the SGC.

WingedPegasus
October 6th, 2007, 04:27 PM
The one thing I found a bit jarring - Sheppard was going to leave Teyla in charge of Atlantis in case the mission failed? Like he really has the authority to do that!!!

Um, he does, and Weir basically left her in charge at the end of season 2 when Weir was on earth and Shep was missing. So I guess it's not really new.

Killdeer
October 6th, 2007, 04:40 PM
Um, he does, and Weir basically left her in charge at the end of season 2 when Weir was on earth and Shep was missing. So I guess it's not really new.

Also, it was a good move on his part actually. If they had to abandon the city and evacuate to the planet (I don't remember for sure, but I don't think the planet had a stargate), they would be completely on their own. In that situation, Teyla would be the person most qualified to keep them alive.

Mitchell82
October 6th, 2007, 04:44 PM
Also, it was a good move on his part actually. If they had to abandon the city and evacuate to the planet (I don't remember for sure, but I don't think the planet had a stargate), they would be completely on their own. In that situation, Teyla would be the person most qualified to keep them alive.

Agreed.

majorsal
October 6th, 2007, 04:54 PM
5)the only thing that bothers me about carter in atlantis is that she is always right. I'd like to see her do something that turns out to be massively wrong. it would make her character interesting again.

well, there are ppl that think that sam's done nothing 'right' for years, so you might want to ask one of them for their list. :sheppardanime31:

i, for one, am massively looking forward to see how sam fits into the atlantis tapestry. it's going to be a big adjustment for her and i'm super excited to see her journey! :D

(btw, because of the first two eps of s4, i'm going to watch the first 3 seasons when atlantis' current season is done. i'm very impressed.)


sally :D

SaberBlade
October 6th, 2007, 04:55 PM
Personally I was disappointed. I couldn't stop comparing Weir to Ford during this episode. The only real difference is that Weir's "infection" wasn't affecting her mind like it was Ford's.

While I admit I did enjoy the episode, I couldn't stop thinking about how much parts seemed to remind me of previous seasons, not just the Ford thing but Weir buying time like Daniel did in Reckoning, and if we get a giant snake episode then I can't see how S4 is going to be original. One thing I really enjoyed, Weir screwing with Oberoth's mind. It's about time that they learnt what it's like.

majorsal
October 6th, 2007, 05:05 PM
Oh wow. I am not even ready to be rational about this episode. Still fighting the tears. I knew this was coming and was completely spoiled for it, and yet...

(snip)

I don't know. I guess I don't have many problems with this episode-right now I'm kind of overwhelmed by the "losing Elizabeth" thing, even though I knew it was coming. She was great in the role though, but....wow, I want her back. :(

(snip)

Oh dear. Now I'm totally depressed. I knew this was coming, but actually seeing it......:(


:(

if this were happening with my fave character, i'd be a basket case. (i'd prob quit watching)

i'm soooo glad they didn't kill her off, though! i'm sure weir will be alright, but... if this were a fanfiction story, we'd be seeing *weir's* side of this and what's happening to her during/after the terrible event. (that's the nice thing about fan fic)

(((weir fans)))




sally :)

majorsal
October 6th, 2007, 05:16 PM
I love the new planet and the night vis effects are pretty sweet.

atlantis newbie asking a question (an OT one): what was the first 3 seasons planet like, compared to this new one?



sally :)

Ruined_puzzle
October 6th, 2007, 05:19 PM
atlantis newbie asking a question (an OT one): what was the first 3 seasons planet like, compared to this new one?



sally :)

About the same, different color filter. LOL. Oh and more moons.

prion
October 6th, 2007, 05:19 PM
Leaving Teyla in command made sense. Zelenka can handle all the technical stuff, but for getting around the PEgasus Galaxy, you need a local. The earth folk wouldn't last long on their own, especially if we're talking scientists who rarely if ever step off Atlantis.

Mitchell82
October 6th, 2007, 06:11 PM
atlantis newbie asking a question (an OT one): what was the first 3 seasons planet like, compared to this new one?



sally :)

It was close but a little different especially the night sky. Now that you like Atlantis you really should watch the last 3 seasons.

AutumnDream
October 6th, 2007, 07:10 PM
Heh. Watch the first one and and half, then go on with Season 4.

Skydiver
October 6th, 2007, 07:25 PM
atlantis newbie asking a question (an OT one): what was the first 3 seasons planet like, compared to this new one?



sally :)
it was still canada :)

really, we only saw the mainland 2-3 times at the most

Mattathias2.0
October 6th, 2007, 07:27 PM
it was still canada :)

really, we only saw the mainland 2-3 times at the most

We saw it in The Storm/The Eye and Critical Mass, if memory serves me right.

Willow'sCat
October 6th, 2007, 07:31 PM
Carl Binder wrote this ep, and he's the same one who wrote Echoes.
Yes and he also wrote the abysmal OOC *imho* Critical Mass. Echoes was another see it coming one, it had a couple of funny moments but Echoes was filler, like this one... in fact for a send off, of a main character this was weak. :S At least Sunday delivered a punch, this one is like saying Weir was nothing to us *g* all the (incase folks are living under a rock and don't know) she will return stuff is slight of hand by tptb when she does return I doubt she will be the same 'Weir'.
The more I think about it the more I feel this episode really was a throw back to the bad times of seasons two and three, where an episode was about nothing more then getting from point a to b, this could have been about anyone... if I was a Weir fan I wouldn't be happy about this send off. :S:cool:

Killdeer
October 6th, 2007, 07:50 PM
Yes and he also wrote the abysmal OOC *imho* Critical Mass. Echoes was another see it coming one, it had a couple of funny moments but Echoes was filler, like this one... in fact for a send off, of a main character this was weak. :S At least Sunday delivered a punch, this one is like saying Weir was nothing to us *g* all the (incase folks are living under a rock and don't know) she will return stuff is slight of hand by tptb when she does return I doubt she will be the same 'Weir'.
The more I think about it the more I feel this episode really was a throw back to the bad times of seasons two and three, where an episode was about nothing more then getting from point a to b, this could have been about anyone... if I was a Weir fan I wouldn't be happy about this send off. :S:cool:

I loved Echoes-it's pretty close to my favorite episode-but yeah, Critical Mass wasn't so great.

I don't know how I feel about it yet. But I don't think I'll be able to watch this episode again anytime soon. If they'd have cut out some stuff and had more reactions at the end, not just Teyla packing her stuff up and a brief comment from Sheppard..... yeah, I guess you're right. I feel like she deserved more. Even if she comes back, she won't be "our" Elizabeth, she'll be something else. Carson got a better send off, because he died. This is part of why I didn't want her to get the "Ford" treatment. I don't know. I know I'm in the minority, even among Weir fans, but I seriously don't have any hopes that she will ever return to the show after TMC, and I'd rather be able to say goodbye as we did to Carson. :(

WingedPegasus
October 6th, 2007, 07:57 PM
OK, I just got to see the episode, (a day late, but at least I got to see it) and it was fantastic! It immediately sucked me in, and when it was over it seemed so short. I absolutely LOVED Weir fooling Oberoth. She actually made herself useful for once. :D The only gripe my family had when they watched it was that McKay was being a worrywart, but I didn't notice. Great piece of television, and well worth the 40-something minutes to watch it. 10/10!

Willow'sCat
October 6th, 2007, 08:01 PM
I loved Echoes-it's pretty close to my favorite episode-but yeah, Critical Mass wasn't so great. Hey Echoes was a fun... funny ep but it really didn't give us anything... filler, nothing wrong with filler but I am hoping season 4 is more "Doppelganger" (even with my complaints) then Lifeline. ;) Less filler eps more killer eps in season 4! lol :D


I don't know how I feel about it yet. But I don't think I'll be able to watch this episode again anytime soon. If they'd have cut out some stuff and had more reactions at the end, not just Teyla packing her stuff up and a brief comment from Sheppard..... yeah, I guess you're right. I feel like she deserved more. Even if she comes back, she won't be "our" Elizabeth, she'll be something else. Carson got a better send off, because he died. This is part of why I didn't want her to get the "Ford" treatment. I don't know. I know I'm in the minority, even among Weir fans, but I seriously don't have any hopes that she will ever return to the show after TMC, and I'd rather be able to say goodbye as we did to Carson. :(
I am not a fan of this storyline; whether I like Weir or not having yet another character out there somewhere seems to point to lack of ideas. And given we... know Carson is going to re-appear as well this season makes it all seem a little anti climatic to me. Many fans will know by now that both Weir and Carson will return in some way. I am not sure what the point to all this is, for a show that simply imho needs to move forward not keep looking backwards. *shrugs* Time will tell if it all works but I have serious doubts. :cool:

On McKay... this is what I hate about SGA you have some writers who want to write him as a relatively normal person with normal if arrogant loud responses and then some (Carl) who want to have him shown in another way... as always complaining, needing Sheppard to scream orders at him and basically be so unlikable that I want to scream!

I am not a fan of this OTT McKay I never have been, I do not want to see it anymore on SGA. I hope Joe M & Paul M let it rest after this episode. No I do not see it as two sides to the one coin.

WingedPegasus
October 6th, 2007, 08:02 PM
Heh. Watch the first one and and half, then go on with Season 4.

IMO, you should watch all of 'em. All the seasons are good, with maybe an episode here and there that may not be the best. (The Tower, Irresistible and Irresponsible come to mind.) All in all though, Atlantis improves with age, as do most things.

Lord batchi ball
October 6th, 2007, 08:06 PM
Hey Echoes was a fun... funny ep but it really didn't give us anything... filler, nothing wrong with filler but I am hoping season 4 is more "Doppelganger" (even with my complaints) then Lifeline. ;) Less filler eps more killer eps in season 4! lol :D


I am not a fan of this storyline; whether I like Weir or not having yet another character out there somewhere seems to point to lack of ideas. And given we... know Carson is going to re-appear as well this season makes it all seem a little anti climatic to me. Many fans will know by now that both Weir and Carson will return in some way. I am not sure what the point to all this is, for a show that simply imho needs to move forward not keep looking backwards. *shrugs* Time will tell if it all works but I have serious doubts. :cool:

I agree that Echoes was a filler episode entertaining but....just a filler

And I thought Critcal mass was a great episode it created more depth to the characters and it created a Arc into SG-1.

Willow'sCat
October 6th, 2007, 08:10 PM
I agree that Echoes was a filler episode entertaining but....just a filler

And I thought Critcal mass was a great episode it created more depth to the characters and it created a Arc into SG-1.Hmm, I never watched SG-1 much after season 8 so I am not interested in an arc for them... sorry. And to me Weir was OOC, and it had such a feel of the over dramatic, with Kav and the torture... I actually groaned at some of the dialogue. :S:cool:

Nah, Carl is my least fave... even Joe M gets more respect from me. :eek::p

suse
October 6th, 2007, 08:15 PM
I missed a bit of the ep. I liked chunks of it.

Missed Teyla. She got what? Two lines?

Rodney.... I'm already sick of him whining about how hard a job is before he does it. I was hoping that would be something fixed...toned down if you will. :S
He takes too much *time* complaining about how impossible it is in the time allowed. Er, you are *wasting* time Meredeth...

I liked the scene at the end where Shep and Carter talk. :)

suse

Easter Lily
October 6th, 2007, 11:19 PM
I liked the episode a lot...
I've always suspected Carl Binder to be a closet sparky fan... and now I'm certain of it! ;)
I was expecting more of a heist in the beginning and I do agree with people who say that they wish there had been more build up there.
What I really like about Carl Binder episodes is his love for intimate character moments particularly between members of the opposite sex and it is here he truly excels.
I was almost in tears during Teyla and Ronon's little exchange in Weir's office. I almost squeed (and I'm not a squeer by inclination) when Sheppard said that if she's out there, "I'm going to find her". Oh the fanfics I can coming from this...

I really hope TPTB change their mind and bring back Weir. I for one will miss her

rosey_angel
October 7th, 2007, 12:13 AM
wow this ep was great

*i LOVED weir fighting oberoth! such a great moment

*asurans fighting the wraith! OMG can't wait, coz the wraith don't have any ARGs and the asurans aren't alive, so you can't suck the life outta them! and they just replicate, so they're evenly matched in that sense

*will weir be conformed? or will there still be enough of her left to fight them?

*yay for teyla being in charge! i wonder how she's gonna feel when carter takes over, coz this isn't the first time teyla has had the run of the city

*WoW joke! i loves Bill. and taking the photo! amazing

*poor rodney. sometimes shep REALLY annoys me. rodney tells him it's gonna be complicated, and then when it is sheps like "huh?" i mean, i know that in the past rodney has said that he can't do something and then he can, but this ep sheps ignorance seemed more prevailant

MechaThor
October 7th, 2007, 02:55 AM
Cool Episode. Not as Good as Adrift and Dooplegenger (or however yiou spell it). But still cool.

The one thing that let it down was the Apollo turning up at the last min to save the day, along with the hanging lantern "that was gd timing". One day the dead or Apollo will not show up on time and Sheppards team will be screwed!

Apart from that there where some Gd moments like
- Dr Lee and his camera. When the flash went off in the apollo i cracked up! DR LEE = LEGAND
- Atlantis landing after re-entry.... i mean entry!
- The Weir doudle bluff was an unexspected twist as to how Sheppards team will get out of jail - They was not even in it!
- giant venomous snakes

Speaking of giant venomous snakes, When will we get the epsiode with them in? As I want one! They will have to go to the main land sooner or latter.

*Oda*
October 7th, 2007, 03:25 AM
I just watched Lifeline and I must say, it was a very spectacular episode.

*I loved Sheppard nervously pacing up and down in the Puddle jumper at the begining. He always seems so calm, so it was nice to see him a bit more human, if I may use this expression.

*I LOVED the Teyla-in-charge part. So great to see that.

*There was even some funny moments, like that "Slow down, Chewie" from Sheppard, "Plug and play" from McKay and Dr.Lee taking a picture in the Apollo (intentionally or not)-it was hillarious :D and Sam's short slap made it even funnier.

*And the most brilliant part was Weir fooling Oberoth-it was amazing.

*And the short (but so full of emotions) moment between Sheppard and Sam was great.

An episode ful of emotions, interactions between characters, funny moments and a twist now and then, will always rate high in my world. :P

ETA: I forgot...I didn't liek McKay in this episode at all. They've managed to made him look like a whining geek again. And why nobody listens to him, when he says, it's going to be tough, is a question, we'll never recieve an answer, I guess. But as I said, a great episode anyway. :)

Klenotka
October 7th, 2007, 03:35 AM
Did we watch the same episode?

I can ask you the same question. :) It´s interesting how two people can see one episode in totally different way.

I mean, the episode was great, but this Sheppard/McKay thing spoiled it a little for me.

Willow'sCat
October 7th, 2007, 03:46 AM
I can ask you the same question. :) It´s interesting how two people can see one episode in totally different way.

I mean, the episode was great, but this Sheppard/McKay thing spoiled it a little for me.
Right there with you sweetie. If Rodney was OTT then Sheppard was just a bully again taking us back to the woeful days of seasons two and three. :cool: Carl stop it. Stop it now, you can't write them so why bother?! :rolleyes:

imho of course.

Klenotka
October 7th, 2007, 03:57 AM
I agree with you in this, Willow, you know it ;) I think they can´t keep writing them like this. And I agree, I love Echoes Carl Binder wrote but...this episode just didn´t work. He managed (as I noticed in few posts here) to turn two most characters into two most hated in this episode.
Even I was never impressed by Elizabeth too much, I liked her here and I am sure it would be much more interesting for her to stay in the show now.
Why does any main character become more intersting after it becomes reccuring? (Ford is a good example)

~Benjamin~
October 7th, 2007, 04:20 AM
i did like this episode , they actually managed to pull it off,it was good to see weir useful for once.

SG13-NightOps
October 7th, 2007, 05:17 AM
L.O.V.E.D. it!

They made Weir cool! I like the new direction they took her character. Is a great idea. Kudos to the imaginations of the producers!

The Shinyness is awesome. Really looking forward to the rest of the season now. Just hope it is on par or better.

Erised
October 7th, 2007, 05:54 AM
this episode was amazing.

AGateFan
October 7th, 2007, 07:01 AM
atlantis newbie asking a question (an OT one): what was the first 3 seasons planet like, compared to this new one?



sally :)
Fewer moons.

Oh and surfing, fishing, hunting, farming on the mainland...which may not be the case now since they pointed out there are dangerous creatures here. We can only hope that they actually explore the planet this time around.

As for this ep:
So far so good as far as the characters go. I was neither thrilled nor disappointed in the eps. I guess I was kicked a little too much with SG-1 and SGA so I am being cautious and not giving myself over to the show. I can’t get attached to any of the characters as I know this TPTB may just "send them away" at anytime or just make them look like complete n00bs.

This ep did none of those things... well poor Telya isn’t getting much to do but Ronan is really shining (even though he ironically doesn’t have many lines). I like Sheppard thinking with his brains and not his feelings too much. I thought it was a bad start in the first ep for the Doc and McKay to ignore his orders but I do like that it was slightly touched on in this ep with Shep indicating he doesn’t necessarily have full and complete trust in McKay...he has more trust in Weir who he knows is compromised (that shows McKay has fallen a bit in his eyes).

Weir really did a good job in this ep. I am not sure how anyone (except Oby) was fooled by Weirs little trick though, it seemed kind of obvious to me. But then it helped I saw the sci-fi commercials where they give it away (who does those things anyway....talk about n00bs).

Telya was written as a leader and she is part of Atlantis command staff so it makes sense that Shep left her in temporarily charge. Clearly he cannot leave her in permanent charge and clearly the military guys could do what Shep did with Weir in older eps and ignore her if they thought it was best. Now I am sure Shep had a lot of say in who his team was so I expect they wouldn’t do that unless they felt they had too but Shep certainly couldn’t fault them considering he did it on several occasions himself. I would like to see more of the Telya in charge thing. She really should be the 2IC of SGA and even though that could never be official it would be nice if they sort of mentioned that in an ep, something about when Sheps incapacitated Telya is in charge.

I like Carter so far. So far she is in character. So far she has not come in and dominated. She didn’t save the day, just came up with a Carter like idea which she presented to the Apollo’s Captain. The Captain of the Apollo came in and saved the day much like Caldwell has done on a number of occasions, so this was very much within the SGA style. Nothing odd or different or changed to make Carter fit. That is how it should be. IF they just MUST get rid of Weir then they are going to put someone in charge, as long as it’s subtle and they don’t damage the old characters or the new then I think it will work. The new Doctor had a similar start. She seems ok, except for already ignoring orders because she didn’t agree with them…..interesting that she did it in a passive/aggressive way using McKay as sort of a shield to the idea. He was more then a willing participant though so….. It was nice she was not in ep 2 very much. New characters should always be introduced slowly. We should learn about them overtime through their interactions with the stars of the show. Will TPTB manage it? I don’t know. So far so good but I am not going to get too excited just yet.

Good ep, not great….maybe in retrospect at the end of the season I will have a different opinion.

jckfan55
October 7th, 2007, 09:18 AM
I agree she needed someone to talk to, but I don't understand why they couldn't allow the man to have some dignity. Having someone on an equal intellectual level as her would have made more sense. Why the need to dumb him down? He's supposed to be bright enough to work for the stargate program, so let him use his brain!

I agree. I know they want to use him for some comic relief, but dumb doesn't equal funny and funny doesn't equal dumb. They could keep him as a bit quirky and still be intelligent.

Colonel Eriksen
October 7th, 2007, 09:33 AM
Cool episode but I am going to miss Dr. Weir so has she been transformed into a replicatoter the new villain repli Weir

Freekzilla
October 7th, 2007, 11:18 AM
I agree. I know they want to use him for some comic relief, but dumb doesn't equal funny and funny doesn't equal dumb. They could keep him as a bit quirky and still be intelligent.

The "Twilight Bark" thing was a perfect example of this. Very smart, yet a bit quirky. It may have been a bit goofy sounding, but was still a very good idea. I don't like it when supposedly smart supporting characters are portayed with the "damsel in distress" syndrome.

Now to address all those angry that people are picking on Rodney McKay and his whining, let me just explain how I feel.
One, yes McKay has done some amazing things. I do respect his abilities. No need to short change him on that aspect.
Two, yes McKay has saved the expedition several times. That should also be respected.
Three, just because he has done some great things doesn't negate the fact that Rodney does tend to whine and complain a lot. He also wastes a lot of time ranting and raving in dire situations. If it was only a little bit, it could be excused and just chalked up as being a part of his personality.
Four, one of the biggest drawbacks to Rodney, and one that really hurts his respectibility, if not erases it for the most part, is that he has and does regularly berate and disparage the other people in the expedition, to the point of utterly humiliating them.

That is why I, and maybe others, are a little sick of his attitude and the banter between him and Shep. I think it would do him a world of good if Shep, and no one else, would deck him when Rodney goes on one of his rampages. Would get him to refocus on the task at hand and let him get back to making miracles. It's a respect the accomplishments, dislike the attitude deal. Know what I mean?

But I still loved this episode. I especially like the use of non verbal communications, like the look on Ronon's face when Rodney asks where Weir is. Ronon didn't have to say a word, his expression said all he needed to. And THAT is a VERY good thing. That is good writing and directing.

Ruined_puzzle
October 7th, 2007, 11:25 AM
pros:

(((:weir:)))

i knew what was going to happen to her in this, so i was melancholy watching it. i KNOW she's not dead! she's too valuable to the reps and besides, why would they get rid of another potential family member? but i'll say, whatever happens to her in the long run, please don't kill her off.

i'm liking sheppard even more. lovely shep/weir in this too. my mom said, 'he loves her'. :) (btw, this show is new for mom and dad too)

sally :D

Heee. Sparky. Your mom is not the only one to say that. My friends dad said it too, but in a guy way. It was hilarious. I LOL'ed.

She won't die she'll just disappear like Ford. Which you know sucks.

Xicer
October 7th, 2007, 11:28 AM
Well not completely...

We know she may appear in two more episodes this season...

justhere1971
October 7th, 2007, 12:02 PM
Well not completely...

We know she may appear in two more episodes this season...

To what extent no one knows. From Torri's interview she really had 2 full episode, even though technically it's 4. So really that leaves one large one.

Anyway, this is for LL -- so, it was a better episode that Adrift overall (after 2nd viewing).

SwissTony
October 7th, 2007, 12:13 PM
Right I love the episode, but one thing niggles me, Mckay said that the program that causes the asurans to attack the wraith was de-activated, but I thought they used this tendancy in The Real World to EMP the nanites?

blue-skyz
October 7th, 2007, 01:18 PM
4x01 Lifeline Part 1 - The Discussion- Blue-Skyz

I loved Lifeline, with only a few grumbles. First Strike, Adrift and Lifeline may well end up being higher on my repeatability scale than the three Sieges. Only time will tell.

They are all tired and stressed. They have been up for days, from before Ellis’ arrival in First Strike, through the strike, the beam, submerging the city, flying the city, being lost, losing power, and dealing with failed systems, the damaged city, damaged people, asteroids and death on a computer screen.
Confidence is failing and tempers are on edge.

Sheppard seeks McKay out in the jumper to discuss how they will find and steal a ZPM once they get to the replicator home world. Sheppard does trust McKay. They will be going on this dangerous mission together and they will plan it together. McKay suggests using Elizabeth’s nanites.

McKay is not his usual confident self. He is seldom uncertain, but he is dealing with technology that he does not fully understand or that he has little experience with. He designed the jumper hyperdrive as his augmented self in Tau of Rodney. He does not completely understand it. He is feeling the pressure of decisions that affect others and he keeps trying to make them aware of the possible problems. He’s afraid of the danger, of course, but he may be more afraid of the responsibility. He keeps trying to hand it off to those around him. Ronon cuts off his rambling uncertainty twice, “Just answer the damn question.” They all already know how low the odds are of success, they are responsible for themselves. McKay again babbles about the difficulties of attaching the ZPM to the hyperdrive. They have no choice but to try it, whatever the danger. They just want McKay to shut up and get on with it. Thankfully, the Apollo arrives. Later it is his worries about the landing that come tumbling out of McKay’s mouth. He has no experience with it or how much power it will take. Reentry or a descent through atmosphere is always fraught with problems. Sheppard has finally had enough. “It never ends with you, you know!” They have to land. They don’t have the power to stay in orbit and every bit they have needs to be available for landing. They need to get on with it.

They ask Elizabeth to come with them. She does not trust herself. Sheppard tells her that he has ordered McKay to write a ‘kill switch,’ a failsafe, the ability to turn the nanites off, stopping them from doing harm, but killing her. McKay will keep an eye on the “little [email protected]” There is an understanding here between Elizabeth and Sheppard. This is something that we have not often seen, the mutual trust and reliance of two leaders. This bond shows again later in the jumper when he waits for her assurance even after McKay has given his. This connection has so much dramatic impact here, it is a shame they have not made more use of it before this. They have spent far too much time portraying Sheppard as silly to portray the leader and the shared leadership adequately. Don’t misunderstand me here, I am not a shipper, I do not see ‘love.’ I do see a wealth of shared experience, respect and sadness.

When Elizabeth is taken to the jumper, Sheppard and at least, five guards escort her. The scene with the sound of marching feet is very military and very imposing. Sheppard is willing to take her with them and risk their lives on the chance that that she, in her altered condition, can help them steal a ZPM, but he is not willing to risk the city by having her in contact with it. He takes this precaution even after McKay told him that there was no need for quarantine.

Before he leaves, Sheppard gives instructions, albeit to Teyla, on what should be done if they don’t return in 12 hours. Zelenka thinks the minimal power hyperspace jump will work without destroying Atlantis, they will die without it. They will have to take jumpers to the planet and be stranded there. It is good to see Sheppard address the ‘if we don’t make it back with the ZPM’ fall back solution. Sheppard and McKay both leave on an extremely risky mission during the crisis. This seems justified here, ‘desperate times call for desperate measures.’

“These people are going to need a leader to keep them alive and keep them together. More importantly not let them give up hope. That’s you Teyla.” Sheppard makes her the person in charge of the evacuation, not Atlantis. This may be splitting hairs, but I see it as significant. She is not in the chain of command, even in its reduced state, but she has experience and talent in this area. It is reasonable for her to organize a group of refugees, even ones with this degree of education, and to become the guardian of their morale.

When Elizabeth first taps into the replicator network they think it’s cool, McKay and Sheppard both smile at the fact that it worked, but then as they see how much she knows they become apprehensive and each watches her with a concerned expression. She has the potential to be very dangerous.

Sheppard: “Forget about it. It’s not happening.” Elizabeth: “That’s not your call.” Sheppard: “The hell it isn’t.” Sheppard is not taking Elizabeth’s orders anymore, he is in command.

Sheppard tells McKay that he is not coming with them to the core room. McKay does not intuit why. Sheppard does not want to spell it out for him. Elizabeth does instead. Sheppard is irritated with McKay that he didn’t get it and it had to be said aloud. McKay needs to stay with Elizabeth in case the ‘kill switch’ needs to be activated.

McKay gives Sheppard instructions that seem beyond his ability, yet he follows them and is successful. I so hope that this heralds a Sheppard this season that lives up to his mensa status. If McKay can use a gun, surely Sheppard has become proficient on various computers.
Minor spoiler for Doppelganger Sheppard is carrying a tablet computer at a meeting. Didn’t use it, but I don’t remember seeing him with his own before.

Elizabeth runs out of the jumper and does not answer Sheppard’s calls. Ronan reminds them of the kill switch. Sheppard hesitates. He faced this issue in Adrift and has been told by Elizabeth to not hesitate to kill her. It is infinitely harder with a functioning Elizabeth, but she is a danger to them all. Ronon tells Sheppard to make the call. Sheppard says, “Do it.” McKay tries. It doesn’t work. McKay reminds them that she had some control when the nanites were active before. She is probably overriding the kill instruction to try to protect them.

Elizabeth cons Oberoth. And we get coned too. Again. But she gives them time to escape.

Elizabeth says, “Go! That’s an order.” But Sheppard isn’t taking her orders. His decision to leave now is based on the situation and the impossibility of saving her as well as her desire to have them save themselves. The ARGs are no longer working. They have no way to fight the replicators. His first duty now is to get away and get the ZPM back to Atlantis. Making the replicators attack the Wraith was worth the risk to themselves and to Atlantis and it was worth losing Elizabeth. But she is a danger to them in the hands of the replicators. He should have shot her with his hand gun since the kill switch didn’t work. I wonder if the nanites would have just repaired the damage to her.

Ronon’s shake of the head when McKay asks about Elizabeth and McKay’s hesitation after Sheppard asks about the cloak is telling. Sheppard shows it after the Apollo tells him that they are not picking up Weir’s locator beacon, when he says, “Copy that.”

If the talk between Sheppard and Carter at the end is an indication, they are going to function as relative equals. The half-assed salute Sheppard gives Carter would be very disrespectful in a strict military context. Carter always said ‘sir’ to O’Neill even though they usually functioned as equals. I’ve been wondering if Sheppard would be saying ‘ma’am’ to Carter constantly, especially after he followed Ellis around in First Strike. I think this experience has given Carter a chance to see Atlantis function effectively and she will be smart enough not to try to fix something that is not broken.

After the landing Sheppard just sits in the chair, the anguish written on his face. The pressure is gone for the moment and can no longer delay the thoughts and feelings or the self recriminations for losing Elizabeth. Not only is Elizabeth gone, she is potentially a huge danger to the city and possibly Earth. He did what he had to do to save the city, but losing Elizabeth to the replicators is his burden, just as Elizabeth being alive with functioning nanites is McKay’s burden. Interesting that they will share the fault when the replicators use Elizabeth against them.

Elizabeth and the nanites helped them get a ZPM, which saved the city. The ZPM was the good result to offset the coming bad one.

blue-skyz
October 7th, 2007, 01:19 PM
4x01 Lifeline Part 2 - The shorter comments- Blue-Skyz

Good:
* Ronon is taking more of a direct part. I find I like him better all the time. His character seems to fit better into Atlantis than Teyla.
* Zelenka tells McKay that the hyperspace jump may use too much power. McKay cuts him off, then starts telling Ronon about all the things that could go wrong. Ronon cuts him off. Nice symmetry.
* Sheppard joke: Remember no wild parties while we are gone. Not much levity in the crisis, as it should be.
* Sheppard calls Ronon Chewie. There is more of a relation to Star Wars here than this reference.
* “We can hear you, you know.” This line never seems to get old.
* “If we’re screwed we may as well complete the mission.” Classic Sheppard.
* Sheppard and Ronon running around in the halls past the frozen replicators is exciting and kind of spooky. Really cool.
* In the cell, Elizabeth’s version of Sheppard, McKay and Ronon all smirking at Oberoth.
* The replicators are frozen. “How many seconds?” “Don’t start with that again.” Thank God! No repeat of the silly behavior in Progeny. I sincerely hope that this is a declaration that S4 will be a more serious season than S3.
* The replicator city. Flying through it.
* The replicators going after the Wraith. Earth destroyed the fleet of ships that the replicators were building, but they had to have many more ships of all finds in service. They gather those ships to send against the Wraith planet.
* Teyla and Ronon in Elizabeth’s office.
* Weir had something to do in this that was interesting. TH is a fine actress, but Weir never should have been a regular character, at least, after the first season.
* Carter is fine here. She helps the Apollo to find Atlantis and rescue the jumper, and she helps in the landing. She reminds, not orders, McKay to drop the shield. She is very non intrusive, unlike Dr Lee. Her talk with Sheppard is a good start.
* McKay gets more edgy toward the end, worried about the landing. Sheppard gets more snappy with McKay “It never ends with you, you know.” Losing Elizabeth is taking its toll.
*Sheppard makes the search for Elizabeth personal when he says, “I haven’t given up hope. If there’s a chance she’s alive, I’ll find her.”

Not so good:
* Dr. Lee. I hope this is the last time we see him on Atlantis.
* The gate Sam and Lee came through was out of proportion.
* Deus ex machina, Apollo shows up to save them. Ellis wouldn’t go to the replicator world to stop the beam but he does come to help them and the ZPM they might have.
* They look for Weir’s locator beacon, but they don’t look for her life sign. The replicators don’t have life signs (do they? Partially organic?), but I suppose that there could be other living things to camouflage her life sign or she could be shielded.

Comments/Questions
* I would prefer if this were the last episode in which some kind of ‘con the viewer’ or mind control on an enemy was used. I love the episode but the trickery is getting old.
* When Sheppard plugs in the tablet and it does not work immediately, McKay asks Sheppard “Look, what did you do? This is reminiscent of the lift off in first strike when McKay asks Sheppard, “What are you doing wrong?”
* They landed the city on a planet within long range sensor scan of the replicator home world?
* Elizabeth puts her hand in Oberoth’s head. Does that mean that her hand is now made of nanites?
Obviously she has gained the ability to use the nanites, but that developing ability seems to have gone far beyond the ability to just tap into the collective replicator mind that McKay intended. Have the nanites multiplied? Are they throughout her body now? How would it ever be safe to have her in Atlantis?
* Whenever replicators do the hand in the head mind probe, why don’t they leave nanites behind. How much more insidious that would be. All our main characters would be contaminated; they could be sending information back to the home world. Yikes!

As I was watching them run down halls (about the fifth time I’ve seen it, so not distracted, just watching for details) I was thinking what a shame it is that such a good show may get cancelled from it’s isolated 10pm slot following the abysmal Flash Gordon on a network that has nothing else worth watching except Eureka. The quality of the show deserves way better exposure.

Erised
October 7th, 2007, 02:23 PM
I loved Sheppard/Weir moments and even Sheppard/thoughts of Weir :)

prion
October 7th, 2007, 02:55 PM
As others have said, its sad that they made Weir such an interesting character, then dumped her. Would have been cool to have a RepliWeir in Atlantis - they still could have put Carter in charge as folks wouldn't be so apt to trust Weir, but it could have opened some interesting doors. But then, I thought the SuperFord idea was good as well, but he got dumped too.

The whole Rodney/Shep arguing is old. Rodney says they have 30 seconds to do something, then they scream at each other for two minutes. They waste more time arguing. The writers really need to tone it down before I turn against both characters.

Teyla didn't have much to do, but at least reference was made about her good leadership skills, which is something we should have seen more of over the past three years. Just saying someone is a good leader doesn't mean squat unless you actually see them in charge somewhere, and Teyla has been woefully shortchanged in that area.

Cleaning Weir's office didn't bother me, as our group doesn't have the ability to go looking for her anytime soon. Teyla showed more emotion than she did at Carson's casket, and I always enjoy the little tender Teyla/Ronon moments. They are very sweet together despite both of them being fierce warriors. Its a nice touch.

Now the really bad: Carter and Lee

I loved Dr. Lee on SG1, but he doesn't fit here, and I hate to say this, but I hope he is gone soon. Carter doesn't gel either, and her hair. . . .OMG, someone give her some scrunchies and get that hair up properly!

Well, technically, scrunchies look pretty stupid on females past 15 years old ;) Unless you're in the gym :) But her hair was the least of my concerns... as for Dr. Lee, he's a scientist, and in the beginning, he was pretty smart, but now he's comedy relief, making weird remarks (is he channeling Jack O'Neill in the latter seasons of SG1??)



John made it personal when he said "If there's a chance she's still alive, I'll find her." Not "we'll find her." Nice.

I was glad that was there, although I do feel weir will sorta just vanish in later episodes, like Ford....


5)the only thing that bothers me about carter in atlantis is that she is always right. I'd like to see her do something that turns out to be massively wrong. it would make her character interesting again.


What do you mean "always right"? She did one thing right, yes, but it's 1 of 1 for her so far. She hasn't had a chance to be "always right" yet, IMHO.

Well, maybe it's the historical Sam is nearly always right from SG1 (She has screwed up several times, like with replicarter) but that doesn't seem to have done any damage to her career.


Meanwhile, found this long review of SGA's first two episodes at
http://scifi.about.com/od/stargate/a/sga_s4premiere.htm

which addresses concerns some fans do have about Weir being removed and Carter being slotted in.

"The premiere episode, however, suspended both women: Weir is unconscious through most of it with a bizarre brain condition, and Carter is totally disconnected from he plot, essentially commuting very slowly to what will be her new job in the company of one of the more annoying "comic relief" Stargate scientists (online gaming enthusiast Dr. Bill Lee, played byBill Dow), who serves mainly to further trivialize her already irrelevant segments. There is no drama about her search for Atlantis at all: her perplexity seems to tap out at "Huh, Atlantis isn't where it's supposed to be. That's odd."

"Atlantis's producers seem to have felt that jettisoning Weir was somehow necessary to the show – not understanding that Weir, the determined, nonmilitary optimist – is the show. Not Sheppard – not McKay – but Weir. I'm not even talking about Weir as a female role model – Weir is a role model, period. But more than that, she's the heart and soul of Atlantis.

The other problem here is that she is military through and through: the first thing she said to Jack O'Neill, back in the pilot episode of SG-1, was to instruct him to call her "Captain," not "Doctor." One of the ongoing drivers of tension and growth through the first three seasons of Atlantis was the fact that the expedition was a civilian one with a subordinate military component, run by a woman with a background of sharp distrust of the military. With Col. Carter in charge, that all goes straight out the window – another gaping wound in a show I love."

chocdoc
October 7th, 2007, 03:13 PM
Well, technically, scrunchies look pretty stupid on females past 15 years old ;) Unless you're in the gym :) But her hair was the least of my concerns... as for Dr. Lee, he's a scientist, and in the beginning, he was pretty smart, but now he's comedy relief, making weird remarks (is he channeling Jack O'Neill in the latter seasons of SG1??)



I was glad that was there, although I do feel weir will sorta just vanish in later episodes, like Ford....





Well, maybe it's the historical Sam is nearly always right from SG1 (She has screwed up several times, like with replicarter) but that doesn't seem to have done any damage to her career.


Meanwhile, found this long review of SGA's first two episodes at
http://scifi.about.com/od/stargate/a/sga_s4premiere.htm

which addresses concerns some fans do have about Weir being removed and Carter being slotted in.

"The premiere episode, however, suspended both women: Weir is unconscious through most of it with a bizarre brain condition, and Carter is totally disconnected from he plot, essentially commuting very slowly to what will be her new job in the company of one of the more annoying "comic relief" Stargate scientists (online gaming enthusiast Dr. Bill Lee, played byBill Dow), who serves mainly to further trivialize her already irrelevant segments. There is no drama about her search for Atlantis at all: her perplexity seems to tap out at "Huh, Atlantis isn't where it's supposed to be. That's odd."

"Atlantis's producers seem to have felt that jettisoning Weir was somehow necessary to the show – not understanding that Weir, the determined, nonmilitary optimist – is the show. Not Sheppard – not McKay – but Weir. I'm not even talking about Weir as a female role model – Weir is a role model, period. But more than that, she's the heart and soul of Atlantis.

The other problem here is that she is military through and through: the first thing she said to Jack O'Neill, back in the pilot episode of SG-1, was to instruct him to call her "Captain," not "Doctor." One of the ongoing drivers of tension and growth through the first three seasons of Atlantis was the fact that the expedition was a civilian one with a subordinate military component, run by a woman with a background of sharp distrust of the military. With Col. Carter in charge, that all goes straight out the window – another gaping wound in a show I love."


I don't mind you putting this reference to a review of Adrift and Lifeline in this discussion thread, but I wish you would also put the other many many reviews of Adrift and some of Lifeline here too to balance this out. Many of the reviews seem to be very positive about the direction of SGA -- so it should at least be noted that there are other reviews in the review thread as well that express a different opinion in regard to Carter "in Charge" thus far.

chocdoc
October 7th, 2007, 03:20 PM
I liked Lifeline, particularly the interaction between Weir and Oberoth. Very well done by both actors. I really look forward to seeing how Weir will return. I also liked Carter and Sheppard's talk at the end, and Sheppard's concern for Weir.

I also liked that Carter states that she isn't staying -- she has no intention of taking a leadership role at this point. So, I look forward to seeing what will happen that leads to her coming back to Atlantis.

Only one thing I didn't like: Mckay was a little over-the-top annoying in this episode. I didn't feel that way in Adrift, but in this episode he talked a lot! I like him though.

Looking forward to next week's Ronon episode.

Ruined_puzzle
October 7th, 2007, 03:21 PM
Well, technically, scrunchies look pretty stupid on females past 15 years old ;) Unless you're in the gym :)

Meanwhile, found this long review of SGA's first two episodes at
http://scifi.about.com/od/stargate/a/sga_s4premiere.htm

which addresses concerns some fans do have about Weir being removed and Carter being slotted in.

"The premiere episode, however, suspended both women: Weir is unconscious through most of it with a bizarre brain condition, and Carter is totally disconnected from he plot, essentially commuting very slowly to what will be her new job in the company of one of the more annoying "comic relief" Stargate scientists (online gaming enthusiast Dr. Bill Lee, played byBill Dow), who serves mainly to further trivialize her already irrelevant segments. There is no drama about her search for Atlantis at all: her perplexity seems to tap out at "Huh, Atlantis isn't where it's supposed to be. That's odd."

"Atlantis's producers seem to have felt that jettisoning Weir was somehow necessary to the show – not understanding that Weir, the determined, nonmilitary optimist – is the show. Not Sheppard – not McKay – but Weir. I'm not even talking about Weir as a female role model – Weir is a role model, period. But more than that, she's the heart and soul of Atlantis.

The other problem here is that she is military through and through: the first thing she said to Jack O'Neill, back in the pilot episode of SG-1, was to instruct him to call her "Captain," not "Doctor." One of the ongoing drivers of tension and growth through the first three seasons of Atlantis was the fact that the expedition was a civilian one with a subordinate military component, run by a woman with a background of sharp distrust of the military. With Col. Carter in charge, that all goes straight out the window – another gaping wound in a show I love."

Well she could use an elastic band :)

That article is made of awesome. There is so much I agree with, I would have to quote it all.

Erised
October 7th, 2007, 03:33 PM
Well she could use an elastic band :)

That article is made of awesome. There is so much I agree with, I would have to quote it all.

ZOMG it is made of awesome

Agent_Dark
October 7th, 2007, 03:45 PM
lol, i think the person who wrote that article was still living in season1. Weir was hardly 'the show' during s2 and s3. That's apparent by the amount of scenes where she's 'tacked on' basically - a little 'check up on the team to show that the character is still around' scene.

prion
October 7th, 2007, 03:48 PM
I don't mind you putting this reference to a review of Adrift and Lifeline in this discussion thread, but I wish you would also put the other many many reviews of Adrift and some of Lifeline here too to balance this out. Many of the reviews seem to be very positive about the direction of SGA -- so it should at least be noted that there are other reviews in the review thread as well that express a different opinion in regard to Carter "in Charge" thus far.

Well, this review struck a particular chord with me, so I posted it as it was more than just "this was a great episode" (which many tend to be) but outlined concerns that many fans do have about the cast changes, which is the purpose of this thread, to discuss/dissect/whatever this episode as well as the direction of the show.

bluealien
October 7th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Origninally posted by Prion

Meanwhile, found this long review of SGA's first two episodes at
http://scifi.about.com/od/stargate/a/sga_s4premiere.htm

I wouldn't really call this a review of either episode, but the reviewers own opinon of what they thought Weir contributed to Altantis and what Carter can contribute.




which addresses concerns some fans do have about Weir being removed and Carter being slotted in.

"The premiere episode, however, suspended both women: Weir is unconscious through most of it with a bizarre brain condition, and Carter is totally disconnected from he plot, essentially commuting very slowly to what will be her new job in the company of one of the more annoying "comic relief" Stargate scientists (online gaming enthusiast Dr. Bill Lee, played byBill Dow), who serves mainly to further trivialize her already irrelevant segments. There is no drama about her search for Atlantis at all: her perplexity seems to tap out at "Huh, Atlantis isn't where it's supposed to be. That's odd."

I wouldnt exactly call it suspending either character... but more of a lead in as to how one character was going to exit the show and the other was going to enter.. I thought both scenarios were handled well.


"Atlantis's producers seem to have felt that jettisoning Weir was somehow necessary to the show – not understanding that Weir, the determined, nonmilitary optimist – is the show. Not Sheppard – not McKay – but Weir. I'm not even talking about Weir as a female role model – Weir is a role model, period. But more than that, she's the heart and soul of Atlantis.

Removing Weir allows the tpb to take the show in a different direction and time will tell how it turns out. Saying that Weir is the show is a pretty big leap... Sheppard and McKay are the only two I could give that title to. They both carry the show, never Weir. Again it's a matter of opinon as to whether Weir was any kind of role model... it depends what you are looking for in a character... she was never a role model to me and certaintly not the heart and soul of Atlantis.




The other problem here is that she is military through and through: the first thing she said to Jack O'Neill, back in the pilot episode of SG-1, was to instruct him to call her "Captain," not "Doctor." One of the ongoing drivers of tension and growth through the first three seasons of Atlantis was the fact that the expedition was a civilian one with a subordinate military component, run by a woman with a background of sharp distrust of the military. With Col. Carter in charge, that all goes straight out the window – another gaping wound in a show I love."

Having someone who is non military in the midst of a military situation became more unbelievable as each season passed...there was no need for this to cause any tension or lack of growth, but it did hightlight that a non military person making military decisions was a bad idea, as we have seen on many occasions with Weirs bad decisons. Also I don't believe that non military means good, and that military automatically means bad... so I have no idea what exactly "is going out the window" ... It doesn't have to about a trust issue... or military against non military... its about having the right person with the right experience hold the position as leader of Atlantis. For me Carter, or someone of a military nature is that person... Atlantis is at war so how can it have someone in charge and making life and death decisions who knows nothing about warfare... Carter has the experience and knowledge to actually particpate and help in these scenarios.. Weir never could.

Erised
October 7th, 2007, 04:12 PM
^Yes and Carter will never, ever let SGA team figure things out on their own. She will tell them how they "came across this technology before..." Where is all the excitement? We're supposed to be sitting back in our chairs and knowing the answer but having SGA team figure it out.

Ruined_puzzle
October 7th, 2007, 04:19 PM
^Yes and Carter will never, ever let SGA team figure things out on their own. She will tell them how they "came across this technology before..." Where is all the excitement? We're supposed to be sitting back in our chairs and knowing the answer but having SGA team figure it out.

Hey didn't that already happen in Doppleganger . Oh noes it has begun. :(

prion
October 7th, 2007, 04:23 PM
Iits about having the right person with the right experience hold the position as leader of Atlantis. For me Carter, or someone of a military nature is that person... Atlantis is at war so how can it have someone in charge and making life and death decisions who knows nothing about warfare... Carter has the experience and knowledge to actually particpate and help in these scenarios.. Weir never could.

You can almost parallel that with the US government. People who aren't in the military are the ones who wage the wars, etc. Now if TPTB can keep to their promise that Carter will be in a supporting role.

majorsal
October 7th, 2007, 04:48 PM
The one thing that let it down was the Apollo turning up at the last min to save the day, along with the hanging lantern "that was gd timing". One day the dead or Apollo will not show up on time and Sheppards team will be screwed!

well, their timing wasn't perfect, since one member 'was' screwed. made it very realistic, though. (((weir)))


- Atlantis landing after re-entry.... i mean entry!

great scene!:D

i think the entire atlantis complex is *very* interesting. i wish i could study the schematics of it, to know what the city is made of. (like where does everyone sleep; the middle of the city or the outside arms? is sam's office/gateroom in the middle?)


sally :)

prion
October 7th, 2007, 04:54 PM
Having just recently watched all of SGA again up to Lifeline, I did notice other characters referencing things that had happened in the past and applying them to the current situation. This is a normal thing to do so why are you whinging about Carter doing it? I didn't notice any whinging in the past when Rodney or Elizabeth did it. Am I to conclude that it is not the actual act that has you riled but the character?

Well, then you've missed the posts over the years in which fans have said "they did that or said that on SG1". ;) Yes, there was 'whinging' and has been since the show began.


well, their timing wasn't perfect, since one member 'was' screwed. made it very realistic, though. (((weir)))

Well, it would be nice that the Apollo/Daedalus isn't always there to pull their fat out of the fire. And where is the Daedalus these days? (besides casting issues with Pileggi- got get him when he's available and not working elsewhere).


great scene!:D

i think the entire atlantis complex is *very* interesting. i wish i could study the schematics of it, to know what the city is made of. (like where does everyone sleep; the middle of the city or the outside arms? is sam's office/gateroom in the middle?)


sally :)

Cautious Explorer
October 7th, 2007, 05:01 PM
And this statement is based on....? And that's a problem because....So far, her providing suggestions have not in any way taken from the team coming up with their own ideas and variations and running with it. Or was the heist and the plan to reactivate the code to attack the Wraith Carter's ideas and I missed that part...I think that's an over dramatization of the facts

It may be too early in the season to say that Carter will provide all the solutions (I haven't seen Doppleganger), but It's also far too early to rule it out. It is however, a huge temptation sitting there waiting for TPTB when they want an easy out.

Why is it a problem for her to reference her past and come up with solutions? Because then there's no story, no challenge. They might as well throw in a compilation of clips from old SG-1 episodes and call it a day.

Carter had no input on the heist plan, but I would say that was because she was not in contact with Atlantis at any time when the plans were being made. It wasn't possible. That's not a useful example.


Having just recently watched all of SGA again up to Lifeline, I did notice other characters referencing things that had happened in the past and applying them to the current situation. This is a normal thing to do so why are you whinging about Carter doing it? I didn't notice any whinging in the past when Rodney or Elizabeth did it. Am I to conclude that it is not the actual act that has you riled but the character?

I can only speak for myself, but that has been a pet peeve of mine all along. I hate it when they do that. I thought it was a cop-out in Critical Mass and again in Progeny. I don't want the solution to come from old SG-1 mission reports, and it's not going to be any more interesting when it comes from Carter's memories. I want to see the people on Atlantis figure things out on their own and learn from their own exeperiences.

Killdeer
October 7th, 2007, 05:30 PM
I haven't seen anyone comment on the mini-gate that Carter and Bill Lee came through on the planet. I can't screencap it, but maybe someone else can? What's the deal here? Is it just me, or is that gate about half the size of a normal one?

Ruined_puzzle
October 7th, 2007, 05:37 PM
I haven't seen anyone comment on the mini-gate that Carter and Bill Lee came through on the planet. I can't screencap it, but maybe someone else can? What's the deal here? Is it just me, or is that gate about half the size of a normal one?

It's for tiny people, like Teyla. LOL.

Skydiver
October 7th, 2007, 06:17 PM
FOlks, this is the LIFELINE discussion thread, not doppelganger.

I know the situation is different because some have actually seen ahead, but please, keep this thread to Lifeline.

You want to discuss Doppel, go over to that folder

AutumnDream
October 7th, 2007, 06:35 PM
lol, i think the person who wrote that article was still living in season1. Weir was hardly 'the show' during s2 and s3. That's apparent by the amount of scenes where she's 'tacked on' basically - a little 'check up on the team to show that the character is still around' scene.

Entirely due to a failure of imagination on the writers' part, not the chararacter's. I'm sorry everyone doesn't have the same unconditional support of Carter as you do.

Agent_Dark
October 7th, 2007, 07:09 PM
Entirely due to a failure of imagination on the writers' part, not the chararacter's. I'm sorry everyone doesn't have the same unconditional support of Carter as you do.

Hello AutumnDream.

I see you are somehow under the impression that I was talking about the character of Weir, rather than the implementation of the character. I'm not sure how you got that impression. I will quote my "the amount of scenes where she's 'tacked on'" - I'm not sure how the character itself is responsible for that. Weir doesn't write scenes for Weir. That would be the writers who write scenes for Weir. Follow?

Ok, now lets move onto the "failure of imagination" part. I was not judging the writers. It may well have been your "failure of imagination" by the writers that caused Weir to be, as I put it, 'tacked onto episodes'. It may not have. That's beside the point. The point is that Weir was in fact, 'tacked onto episodes'. And you didn't deny that, so I guess you agree.
But here comes the part you seem to have missed - I was responding to the article that was posted above about Adrift/Lifeline. The one that says how "Weir was the show". I wasn't talking about what the writers think of Weir or the show. I was talking about that article. Hence my 'lol, i think the person who wrote that article was still living in season1'. Because Weir was 'tacked onto episodes' all throughout s2 and s3. The character can hardly 'be the show' if they're having to be written into scenes just to show that the character is still around.

And finally, what does Carter have to do with anything I said? I didn't mention her at all. Yet you feel as if your assumption/accusation that my supposed 'unconditional support of Carter' is relevent to, well, anything I posted about? If you'd care to explain that one, that would be great.

Skydiver
October 7th, 2007, 07:09 PM
Guys, let's leave crit of other fans opinions out of this please.

DIsagree with them, dislike them, that's fine.

But judge their opinions on the words, not the fandom affiliation of those expressing them.

Now, back to the plot of Lifeline

Mack_1
October 7th, 2007, 07:41 PM
I just watched Lifeline and I must say, it was a very spectacular episode.

*I loved Sheppard nervously pacing up and down in the Puddle jumper at the begining. He always seems so calm, so it was nice to see him a bit more human, if I may use this expression.

*I LOVED the Teyla-in-charge part. So great to see that.

*There was even some funny moments, like that "Slow down, Chewie" from Sheppard, "Plug and play" from McKay and Dr.Lee taking a picture in the Apollo (intentionally or not)-it was hillarious :D and Sam's short slap made it even funnier.

*And the most brilliant part was Weir fooling Oberoth-it was amazing.

*And the short (but so full of emotions) moment between Sheppard and Sam was great.

An episode ful of emotions, interactions between characters, funny moments and a twist now and then, will always rate high in my world. :P

ETA: I forgot...I didn't liek McKay in this episode at all. They've managed to made him look like a whining geek again. And why nobody listens to him, when he says, it's going to be tough, is a question, we'll never recieve an answer, I guess. But as I said, a great episode anyway. :)

I agree with you on all of this, great episode I'm warming up to SGA, but still have a bit of a problem with McKay whining all the time, I meant he's been doing this way since the begining of the show, even before that, can't he tone it down a little?

ala and all 10/10

Erised
October 7th, 2007, 08:21 PM
I actually like the whining... if they toned it down, it wouldn't be McKay. Just watch those SG-1 episodes with him..ROFL

Freekzilla
October 7th, 2007, 09:01 PM
Well, based on Adrift and Lifeline, I think we can give McKay a new nickname. They have a Dr. McDreamy, and a Dr. McSteamy on Greys Anatomy, so I think I shall dub thee as Dr. Rodney McWhiney. Hmmm, it fits. Dr. McWhiney it is from now on then. ;) Frankly, I think that is part of the stress between McWhiney and Sheppard seen in both Adrift and Lifeline, but Lifeline moreso.

morjana
October 7th, 2007, 11:19 PM
Why didnt the anti rep beam effect the nanites in weir? I dont remember it being explained.


Perhaps Rodney automatically progammed Weir's nanites to have protected against the anti rep beam.

Also...perhaps Weir was never inside the anti rep beam. The beam was broadcast DOWN from the jumper and only for a certain width/distance. Perhaps Weir when she left the ship was able to travel beyond the width of the beam, and then descend to find Oberoth outside the reach of the anti rep beam.

Morjana

morjana
October 7th, 2007, 11:26 PM
And I had the complete opposite reaction from sweetsong. I liked Adrift's action better. I did think Lifeline was a great ep. Loved Weir tricking Oberoth. Was a little disappointed to see the old McKay back. LOVED the scene with Ronon and Teyla as she packed Weir's office.

Ronon is offering a kinder, gentler side to him this season. His scene with Weir in "Adrift," and this week he puts his hand on Teyla's shoulder (as a bit of comfort?) while she's packing up Weir's belongings.

Very nice to see.

Morjana

BerrySciFi
October 7th, 2007, 11:37 PM
Having someone who is non military in the midst of a military situation became more unbelievable as each season passed...there was no need for this to cause any tension or lack of growth, but it did hightlight that a non military person making military decisions was a bad idea, as we have seen on many occasions with Weirs bad decisons. Also I don't believe that non military means good, and that military automatically means bad... so I have no idea what exactly "is going out the window" ... It doesn't have to about a trust issue... or military against non military... its about having the right person with the right experience hold the position as leader of Atlantis. For me Carter, or someone of a military nature is that person... Atlantis is at war so how can it have someone in charge and making life and death decisions who knows nothing about warfare... Carter has the experience and knowledge to actually particpate and help in these scenarios.. Weir never could.


Um, there's one problem with this. In the real world, the leader of the armed forces of the U.S.A. (The Commander-In-Chief) is a decidedly non-military person who makes military decisions. The President of the United States... on second thought, you win the argument!

morjana
October 7th, 2007, 11:48 PM
Hopefully, TPTB will kill off Shep next and put Daniel Jackson in the show.

I think the Joe Flanigan fans would be a tad upset.

Daniel Jackson's character would be superflous on SGA. They have Teyla and Ronon to be the guides/experts for the Pegasus galaxy; McKay and now Carter for the science aspect; and Shep, Ronon, and Teyla for the military response.

Morjana

morjana
October 8th, 2007, 12:24 AM
Uh, yeah, he does have that authority, as ranking military officer and as second senior member of the expedition directly under Weir.

Also, Weir has left Teyla in charge of Atlantis before in "No Man's Land," when Sheppard, McKay and Ronon were busy with the Wraith in space, and Weir was ordered to return to the SGC.

Morjana

morjana
October 8th, 2007, 12:34 AM
Now the question I do have - the Replicators were able to figure out how to get thru the AR field... does this now mean the AR weapons, and more importantly the PWARW won't work??

If that's the case, I think that's going to be a big problem.....-R

Maybe the PWARW weapons are like the anti-borg phasers on ST:TNG?

McKay just needs to adjust the modulating frequency...

Morjana

rosey_angel
October 8th, 2007, 02:54 AM
And why nobody listens to him, when he says, it's going to be tough, is a question, we'll never recieve an answer, I guess. But as I said, a great episode anyway. :)

imo, it's coz rodeny is like, the boy who cried "impossible". lots of times he's said he can't do things, and then he finds a way around it. shep and the others have come to expect that from him. imo, we as the audience have come to expect that, at the last moment, rodney will come through with some plan and save the day.

it is nice to see that it is happening; when rodney says it's hard it's gonna be hard.

Kliggins
October 8th, 2007, 03:04 AM
P.S can Lee be any more annoying?


Probably. Shhhh, don't encourage him.

Elite Anubis Guard
October 8th, 2007, 04:37 AM
Am I the only one who likes Lee? Nothing nicer than being able to laugh at WoWer like him. :P Anyway, what an awesomesauce episode. Step-up from Adrift action-wise but still retrained a lot of the nicer character stuff. What I really enjoyed was the tone. As always, Atlantis gives us that darker, grittier tone to the SG universe.

It bods well for the rest of the season IMHO. We know it's supposed to be war orientated. Guess we now know who's at war - Reps vs Wraith - but if this episode is anything to go by, we're gonna have a dark tone and lots of angst throughout.

And I'm very impressed with how the Wier/Carter situation is being handled. I'm very pleased. I thought it might end up feeling forced but I'm liking the direction they're taking Wier. Could end up being very interesting. Although, that said, didn't like the ending bit with Teyla and Ronon. That "whoever takes over has big shoes to fill in" bit just made me cringe.

Cautious Explorer
October 8th, 2007, 04:49 AM
Am I the only one who likes Lee? Nothing nicer than being able to laugh at WoWer like him. :P

I like Dr. Lee. I like the Dr. Lee who gave us the "twilight bark". I like the Dr. Lee who's outwardly silly but has a good brain underneath. That's why I don't like the foolish Dr. Lee who trails behind Carter for the sole purpose of comic relief. There's no underlying brilliance. It's as if TPTB are afraid that any intelligence coming from another scientist will somehow lessen Carter. IMO the exact opposite is true. If she's that good, they shouldn't be afraid to let her interact with her equally talented peers.

Elite Anubis Guard
October 8th, 2007, 05:01 AM
That's what we've got McKay for this year. And dear God, I hope they don't lessen him.

prion
October 8th, 2007, 05:13 AM
Am I the only one who likes Lee? Nothing nicer than being able to laugh at WoWer like him. :P Anyway, what an awesomesauce episode. Step-up from Adrift action-wise but still retrained a lot of the nicer character stuff. What I really enjoyed was the tone. As always, Atlantis gives us that darker, grittier tone to the SG universe.

And I'm very impressed with how the Wier/Carter situation is being handled. I'm very pleased. I thought it might end up feeling forced but I'm liking the direction they're taking Wier. Could end up being very interesting. Although, that said, didn't like the ending bit with Teyla and Ronon. That "whoever takes over has big shoes to fill in" bit just made me cringle.

I don't dislike Dr. Lee, but don't feel the dialogue they feed him adds anything to the plots in SGA. Unfortunately, they're turning him into a stereotypical geeky scientist with limited social skills. Any more and we'll have a Felger clone! ;)

I must admit I cringed a little at the 'whoever takes over has big shoes to fill" remark, because I think that was meant to assuage fans that Weir will be missed, but never mind, we'll go on with the show. I've seen it done several times on other shows, and no matter how you do it, you can't force a fan to like the replacement. The old adage of 'you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink' applies in this case.

justhere1971
October 8th, 2007, 05:22 AM
I don't dislike Dr. Lee, but don't feel the dialogue they feed him adds anything to the plots in SGA. Unfortunately, they're turning him into a stereotypical geeky scientist with limited social skills. Any more and we'll have a Felger clone! ;)

I must admit I cringed a little at the 'whoever takes over has big shoes to fill" remark, because I think that was meant to assuage fans that Weir will be missed, but never mind, we'll go on with the show. I've seen it done several times on other shows, and no matter how you do it, you can't force a fan to like the replacement. The old adage of 'you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink' applies in this case.

Word. I liked Dr. Lee a lot on SG1. He was funny & cute, and still smart. In SGA so far, he's that dork that I'd like to avoid.

After a tremendous episode showcasing Weir, that line was a little short.
Also I liked the new cast that's in SGA, when they were on SG1 -- just by handling a character I like on SGA the way they did, tptb got my heckles raised, and has me questioning and arguing this new cast.

Skydiver
October 8th, 2007, 05:29 AM
dr lee is TONS better than he was in Paradise Lost...when he was a bit of an idiot.

or, well more of the anti social, kinda bossy and arrogant scientist.

Sometimes i think his 'comic relief' is a bit to heavy handed. If you have to make the character into a boob to make the joke work, i'ts not a good joke.

but, in many ways, he's like rodney, excuse me, McWhiney :)

they've given him traits that really don't work on a real and sustainable level...and they are traits that annoy. But they're traits that the writer use, and sometmes abuse, to cram some comedy into things

Ltcolshepjumper
October 8th, 2007, 05:32 AM
dr lee is TONS better than he was in Paradise Lost...when he was a bit of an idiot.

or, well more of the anti social, kinda bossy and arrogant scientist.

Sometimes i think his 'comic relief' is a bit to heavy handed. If you have to make the character into a boob to make the joke work, i'ts not a good joke.

but, in many ways, he's like rodney, excuse me, McWhiney :)

they've given him traits that really don't work on a real and sustainable level...and they are traits that annoy. But they're traits that the writer use, and sometmes abuse, to cram some comedy into things

It seems like Dr. Lee is the "SG-1 Mckay" of Atlantis, if you know what I mean. Take Pegasus Project. the way emerson treated Mckay (and how Mckay acted) is the same way DR. Lee acted and was treated by Ellis.

Skydiver
October 8th, 2007, 05:36 AM
I do like what they did with Weir. And, maybe i'm reading too much into it, but i detected a bit of a, suicidal might be too strong of a word, but the 'i don't like what i am, i hate what i may become, so it's ok with me if this mission doesn't work' attitude from her.

she did and was very wililng to do her duty, but i think she almost embraced the threatening nature of it as a possible way out.

I know that it'll be rather boring if they do completely 'ford' her. and yeah, it's something they've done before, so i really wish they'd find a new bag of tricks. But on the other hand, i think it's gonna be something that'll give that character more depth and purpose than she's had in the past 3 years.

Just the angst and the conflict makes things interesing and the prospect of Weir being some sort of avenging angel is intriguing

Skydiver
October 8th, 2007, 05:37 AM
It seems like Dr. Lee is the "SG-1 Mckay" of Atlantis, if you know what I mean. Take Pegasus Project. the way emerson treated Mckay (and how Mckay acted) is the same way DR. Lee acted and was treated by Ellis.
it is a bit of a cliche and rut that the writers are in.

how many times did we see sam or daniel cut off by an impatient jack?

the whole 'yeah, yeah, babble quickly and shut up so that i can shoot stuff' :)

prion
October 8th, 2007, 06:13 AM
.

but, in many ways, he's like rodney, excuse me, McWhiney :)

they've given him traits that really don't work on a real and sustainable level...and they are traits that annoy. But they're traits that the writer use, and sometmes abuse, to cram some comedy into things

Ack, ack, none of that "Mc" stuff from that hospital show! ;)

The thing is that black comedy can work just as well, particularly in dire situations. THe whack people over head with sledge hammer stuff should be left for sitcoms.


I do like what they did with Weir. And, maybe i'm reading too much into it, but i detected a bit of a, suicidal might be too strong of a word, but the 'i don't like what i am, i hate what i may become, so it's ok with me if this mission doesn't work' attitude from her.

she did and was very wililng to do her duty, but i think she almost embraced the threatening nature of it as a possible way out.

I know that it'll be rather boring if they do completely 'ford' her. and yeah, it's something they've done before, so i really wish they'd find a new bag of tricks. But on the other hand, i think it's gonna be something that'll give that character more depth and purpose than she's had in the past 3 years.

Just the angst and the conflict makes things interesing and the prospect of Weir being some sort of avenging angel is intriguing

I didn't see Weir as suicidal. She knew that if they (Shep, Ronon) made the suicidal bid to save her, that would doom Atlantis, and she put Atlantis before herself, so that's self-sacrificing. There's also the possibility she realized that if she went back with them, she'd be locked up like a lab rat, but then she also knew that if she got caught, she could compromise Atlantis. She chose the option to save Atlantis, knowing that if she was a POW, they'd block her codes, etc. PLus she has no idea where Atlantis is now, so that's a good thing.

chocdoc
October 8th, 2007, 07:18 AM
Well, this review struck a particular chord with me, so I posted it as it was more than just "this was a great episode" (which many tend to be) but outlined concerns that many fans do have about the cast changes, which is the purpose of this thread, to discuss/dissect/whatever this episode as well as the direction of the show.


I see. Well, a number of reviews (e.g., from Maureen Ryan, Mary McNamara, IGN, TVSquad, etc.) do give more extensive reviews about the episodes and direction of the show as well. They have been positive, but I understand that you wanted to bring up one that addresses concerns of some fans.

In regard to Lifeline, I could have used a little less Sheppard/Mckay banter. It's getting a bit old. I understand the importance of having conflict between the characters, but sometimes the same conflict can just get a little boring.

The Sheppard/Weir scenes, however, were really good.

Skydiver
October 8th, 2007, 07:46 AM
if they wanted conflict, in this case, how about having ronon take mcwhiney to task for his little trick?

wouldn't someone like ronon, with his past of having people futz with him and mess with his body, be the perfect person to let rod know that, hey, sometimes death is better?

or maybe it's coming, who knows.

but that couldhave been explored in lieu of any mcshep moment

taenhago
October 8th, 2007, 09:25 AM
to me...I love how they finally start writing Weir into a good character to watch...and we will (more than likely in my opinion the way the writers are working for me) NEVER see her again after this season.....:weiranime34:

I loved Weir completely all the way, loved the Sheppard questioning to "pull the plug"....but the episode just seemed to be lacking overall for me.


I agree in part, the edisode was better than Adrift (soooo...predictable.) The loss of weir and Beckett is a death nell. Tapping is really trying and looking unsure of herself and I do not see how Carter will work at all (so now it's a military base?)

Still, not all that impressed thus far.

SMB_BOOKS
October 8th, 2007, 11:09 AM
Lifeline was hard for me to watch. It was a good episode, but painful.

To me, it almost seemed like Liz was already isolated from the team in this episode. No one seemed to know how to interact with her and she was withdrawn.

It broke my heart to see the team walk down the hall into the infirmary and to see the armed guards posted and then Liz all alone, sitting on the bed. It was almost like she'd already been abandoned. This is the woman who sacrificed herself for the team and Atlantis in "Before I Sleep" and she's under armed guard and treated like she has the plague? And yes, I know, she had nanites running around in her. I understand why, but it was hard to watch.

I thought Torri did a phenomenal job in this episode. I was a fan of her portrayal of Liz up to this point, but Lifeline nailed it for me. Liz was strong, determined, and seemed resigned to her fate. In fact, she was one of the only calm, focused aspects of the entire show.

I thought John's choice of Teyla to be in charge while they were on the mission was logical. They had a slim chance of succeeding and a big chance of never returning. Teyla is a leader and has the respect of the expedition and has experience helping a whole group of people survive under tough odds. Made sense to me.

I like how John walked by Liz's side on the way to the puddle jumper. I don't think I could have handled it had it been just her and the armed guards like she was some damn prisoner.

The John/Rodney bantering got on my nerves. And McKay's constant whining is really starting to bug me. Yes, I know, it's his schtick. But, it was way too center stage in this episode for my liking.

I like how Ronon had to prompt John into making the decision on the kill switch. I'm glad John hesitated. It was a small sign of his reluctance in the whole thing and I'm glad it was there.

I'm glad John didn't want to leave Liz, but I was hoping he would struggle or fight more to not leave her behind. I understand we couldn't have a nice little resolution in this episode and still have TPTB's plan play out, but it seemed so out of character for John to go, even if he was obeying Liz's orders.

I like the scene in the chair when John's safely landed the city on the new planet. He pauses and we get to watch him pause and let everything sink in. For me, I think this is when he allows the reality of the situation to sink in. I like to imagine in his head he's saying Don't worry Liz. Atlantis is safe. Your team is safe. Your sacrifice was not in vain.

I like the scene in Liz's office with Ronon and Teyla. I think everyone gave up too soon on Liz, but if someone had to clean out her office, I'm glad it was Ronon and Teyla and not Carter. Now, if John had been the one who had to do it, that would have even been better. But, Ronon and Teyla were good in this scene. Good emotion from Rachel on this one.

It was hard to see Carter on the balcony. I would have liked it to have ended with John on the balcony alone. I mean, Carter could have said her piece, John indicates he'll find her if she's still alive and then Carter exits, leaving John to a little angst on his own.

I hope with the other two Liz eps in Season 4 that we get some sort of resolution for her. I truly do not want her to end up "evil Asuran Liz". It provides an interesting plot point right now, but don't let it end that way for her. I would much rather see a S4 cliffhanger with a S5 premier with a grand rescue and then the aftermath (rehabilitating Liz, reintegration with the team, etc) then "Liz is now Oberoth's evil queen". Yuck.

SoulReaver
October 8th, 2007, 12:15 PM
a good ep, however Earth's now doomed, thanks to McKay
(yep he's done it again. irl they'd have him airlocked, pronto :sheppardanime21: )

prion
October 8th, 2007, 04:35 PM
I'm glad John didn't want to leave Liz, but I was hoping he would struggle or fight more to not leave her behind. I understand we couldn't have a nice little resolution in this episode and still have TPTB's plan play out, but it seemed so out of character for John to go, even if he was obeying Liz's orders.



Okay, was it just me, but I could have sworn that Ronon pulled Sheppard back. Actually grabbed him and pulled him back.Yup, rewatched the scene and Ronon did pull Sheppard back.

jz9
October 8th, 2007, 04:52 PM
A wonderful episode. Really enjoyed the story and impressed with the heroism of Weir, Sheppard, Ronon and McKay. Also loved Carter’s interaction with the Atlantis team and Dr. Lee.

As for Carter’s giving McKay the order to raise shields, she was the highest ranking officer in Atlantis at the time. This may also explain why she was the one who congratulated Sheppard on his fine landing.

As to the complaint about “Carter being always right”, she isn’t. Some examples are: Red Sky, Gemini, Forsaken, Insider and Line in the Sand. However she is brilliant and has proven herself to be a fine US Air Force officer of courage and integrity. She is incredibly loyal to the people she works with. So give her a chance and I think you will like her too.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 8th, 2007, 06:04 PM
There's no more character development for her, which is ironic seeing that ford, beckett, and weir were dropped for that very same reason.
She may be in a new setting, on a new show, with a new position, but IMO, the leadership development isn't working. Maybe I'll be proven wrong by the end of the season.

RealmOfX
October 8th, 2007, 06:26 PM
There's no more character development for her, which is ironic seeing that ford, beckett, and weir were dropped for that very same reason.
She may be in a new setting, on a new show, with a new position, but IMO, the leadership development isn't working. Maybe I'll be proven wrong by the end of the season.

Well seeing as Carter isn't leader of Atlantis yet (only 2 eps have aired) it really is difficult to say if the leadership development is working or not isn't it?

prion
October 8th, 2007, 06:35 PM
Well seeing as Carter isn't leader of Atlantis yet (only 2 eps have aired) it really is difficult to say if the leadership development is working or not isn't it?

Well, technically, 3 episodes if you count iTunes mistaken release of "Doppelganger." However, I'm curious as how they'll slot in Carter in "Reunion."

Mattathias2.0
October 8th, 2007, 06:38 PM
As a B-story.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 8th, 2007, 06:41 PM
Well seeing as Carter isn't leader of Atlantis yet (only 2 eps have aired) it really is difficult to say if the leadership development is working or not isn't it?


I was referring to Doppleganger
I did say maybe I'll be proven wrong.

RealmOfX
October 8th, 2007, 06:47 PM
I was referring to Doppleganger
I did say maybe I'll be proven wrong.


Then maybe you should post in the Doppleganger thread and leave this one to people who have only seen the aired episodes.

chocdoc
October 8th, 2007, 07:18 PM
Then maybe you should post in the Doppleganger thread and leave this one to people who have only seen the aired episodes.


Yes, thanks for saying this. (I haven't seen Doppleganger yet, and I don't want to until I've seen Reunion since it comes before Doppleganger in the story line).

As far as Carter in Lifeline, I agree with a number of reviews out (e.g., recently Syfy Portal and IGN) that Sam's introduction into Atlantis has been handled very well thus far by TPTB. Looking forward to seeing how Carter's role further develops in Reunion.

Skydiver
October 8th, 2007, 07:34 PM
yes, guys please, let's keep doppelganger out of here.

Alipeeps
October 9th, 2007, 06:06 AM
As for Carter’s giving McKay the order to raise shields, she was the highest ranking officer in Atlantis at the time. This may also explain why she was the one who congratulated Sheppard on his fine landing.


To the best of my knowledge, it doesn't work like that. She may be the highest ranking officer there but she is not assigned to that mission/facility. Just like Caldwell, though outranking Sheppard, cannot interfere in Sheppard's command/make decisions about the military deployment etc in Atlantis because he is not assigned there, the same applies to Sam. However, given that Sheppard was kinda occupied at the time with having flown the city etc and was in a different room and not really on hand to give orders, I have no problem with Sam helping out.

It didn't really come across as an "order" per se to me anyway... it was more like she and McKay were working together and it was more of a comment as to what they should do next rather than an "order" that Rodney must obey. It's no different from a colleague and I working together on something at a computer and she saying, "Open up the proposal document". She doesn't outrank me and I was going to open the document anyway.. she's not ordering me to do something, she's just expressing what she thinks we need to do next.