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SMB_BOOKS
October 9th, 2007, 06:31 AM
Okay, was it just me, but I could have sworn that Ronon pulled Sheppard back. Actually grabbed him and pulled him back.Yup, rewatched the scene and Ronon did pull Sheppard back.

I've only watched the scene once (live) since I don't have the ability to download it or record it.

I do know that Ronon had to pull him back. I'm not saying John didn't resist Liz's order to leave her. I just wish there had been more of a struggle and more insistence from John at the end of the ep that they couldn't and shouldn't abandon her. "We don't leave our people behind".

Prior season John would have been chomping at the bit, raging against the man to go after her. This season's John is different. I appreciated his comment "If she's alive, I'll find her." That gave me hope. But it wasn't incredibly realistic. They know where she is. They know where the Asuran homeworld is and they know which Wraith planet the mass of Asuran ships were headed to.

Now, considering TPTB appear to be writing Weir out of the series, launching a covert rescue operation wouldn't have suited that purpose very well, so I understand why the comment at the end was written the way it was.

Not sure if this makes sense, but I wanted to try and clarify where I was coming from. :o

Linzi
October 9th, 2007, 06:54 AM
I've only watched the scene once (live) since I don't have the ability to download it or record it.

I do know that Ronon had to pull him back. I'm not saying John didn't resist Liz's order to leave her. I just wish there had been more of a struggle and more insistence from John at the end of the ep that they couldn't and shouldn't abandon her. "We don't leave our people behind".

Prior season John would have been chomping at the bit, raging against the man to go after her. This season's John is different. I appreciated his comment "If she's alive, I'll find her." That gave me hope. But it wasn't incredibly realistic. They know where she is. They know where the Asuran homeworld is and they know which Wraith planet the mass of Asuran ships were headed to.

Now, considering TPTB appear to be writing Weir out of the series, launching a covert rescue operation wouldn't have suited that purpose very well, so I understand why the comment at the end was written the way it was.

Not sure if this makes sense, but I wanted to try and clarify where I was coming from. :o
I disagree Sheppard was different here. He would never go back for a team member if other people's lives were at stake - IE the whole expedition. He would sacrifice one person to save many others. He'd risk his own life for Weir without hesitation, but not anyone else's. He is in charge, he's leader, it's his job to protect all the inhabitants of Atlantis. If the mission fails and they don't return with a ZPM, then it's doubtful anyone would have survived, in my opinion. Certainly Atlantis itself wouldn't have, though Zelenka and Teyla may have been able to ferry people to another planet by PJ.

I'm not sure Earth or Atlantis is in any position to take on the might of the replicators. Let's be honest, Atlantis survived by the skin of its teeth here. Would they risk a full scale battle/controntation to save one person, who may already be dead? I don't think so. They are in no position to go back to Asura, which presumably is where Weir is. How would they get into the city? The only ZPM they have is needed for the city's protection, and with the few resources they have, it would be suicide to go back for Weir at this stage - and that's presuming she's alive, or not compromised.

So, for me, Sheppard's behaviour was realistic. He was in charge, had to get the ZPM back to save the city. What else could he have done? Sacrificed hundreds of lives for his boss? He'd lose his job if he'd done that, and as much as he cares for Weir, she was the one who risked her life to save the city and the team, and as reluctant as he was to leave, Sheppard knew her sacrifice would be in vain if he'd stayed behind. He couldn't have fought off the many replicators who had surrounded Weir, and retrieved her, and then the replicators would have had two more prisoners, or just killed them. So, he reluctantly left, knowing it was his only course of action. He made a decision on the spot, knowing trying to help Weir was futile at that point. When he got back, he'd be in no position to consider trying to mount a rescue for Weir. As mentioned before, they'd never be able to infiltrate Asura again. So, for the moment, his hands are tied. His last comments about finding her if she's alive make me think that he's not even sure she is, which would make it even more difficult for him to get approval to launch a rescue mission for one person, even if it is a dear friend and colleague. In fact, Carter's words make it sound like Landry et al see Weir as a casualty of war. I don't see Sheppard as giving up on Weir here without much of a fight, though I have no doubt he's devastated at her loss. :(
So, for me, Sheppard was true to who he's always been here.

Edit: I hope that ramble made sense!!!! :o

Ruffles
October 9th, 2007, 07:15 AM
I disagree Sheppard was different here. He would never go back for a team member if other people's lives were at stake - IE the whole expedition. He would sacrifice one person to save many others. He'd risk his own life for Weir without hesitation, but not anyone else's. He is in charge, he's leader, it's his job to protect all the inhabitants of Atlantis. If the mission fails and they don't return with a ZPM, then it's doubtful anyone would have survived, in my opinion. Certainly Atlantis itself wouldn't have, though Zelenka and Teyla may have been able to ferry people to another planet by PJ.

I'm not sure Earth or Atlantis is in any position to take on the might of the replicators. Let's be honest, Atlantis survived by the skin of its teeth here. Would they risk a full scale battle/controntation to save one person, who may already be dead? I don't think so. They are in no position to go back to Asura, which presumably is where Weir is. How would they get into the city? The only ZPM they have is needed for the city's protection, and with the few resources they have, it would be suicide to go back for Weir at this stage - and that's presuming she's alive, or not compromised.

So, for me, Sheppard's behaviour was realistic. He was in charge, had to get the ZPM back to save the city. What else could he have done? Sacrificed hundreds of lives for his boss? He'd lose his job if he'd done that, and as much as he cares for Weir, she was the one who risked her life to save the city and the team, and as reluctant as he was to leave, Sheppard knew her sacrifice would be in vain if he'd stayed behind. He couldn't have fought off the many replicators who had surrounded Weir, and retrieved her, and then the replicators would have had two more prisoners, or just killed them. So, he reluctantly left, knowing it was his only course of action. He made a decision on the spot, knowing trying to help Weir was futile at that point. When he got back, he'd be in no position to consider trying to mount a rescue for Weir. As mentioned before, they'd never be able to infiltrate Asura again. So, for the moment, his hands are tied. His last comments about finding her if she's alive make me think that he's not even sure she is, which would make it even more difficult for him to get approval to launch a rescue mission for one person, even if it is a dear friend and colleague.

So, for me, Sheppard was true to who he's always been here.

I have to agree with Linzi here especially on the bolded part. My reasoning is based on Duet from S2. The way McKay and Cadman got stuck together was Sheppard ordering the dart shot down even after he knew they had been swept up in the culling beam. He could not let the dart get away with the knowledge that Atlantis existed. Even Rodney understood when Sheppard told him later that he had given the order. The safety of the city comes first.

Skydiver
October 9th, 2007, 08:39 AM
shep's willingness to sacrifice liz to save the city is right in line with his willingness to sacrifice himself to save the city. 'the good of the many' and all that.

and, as much as it sucks, sometimes people have to die so that more can live

as to sam giving the order...i didn't see her as taking command of the city per se, as she had come up with the idea and was telling people what to do, just like she has at the sgc countless times. she's the tech expert and she tells people what to do in a tech situation

prion
October 9th, 2007, 09:22 AM
I've only watched the scene once (live) since I don't have the ability to download it or record it.

I do know that Ronon had to pull him back. I'm not saying John didn't resist Liz's order to leave her. I just wish there had been more of a struggle and more insistence from John at the end of the ep that they couldn't and shouldn't abandon her. "We don't leave our people behind".

Prior season John would have been chomping at the bit, raging against the man to go after her. This season's John is different. I appreciated his comment "If she's alive, I'll find her." That gave me hope. But it wasn't incredibly realistic. They know where she is. They know where the Asuran homeworld is and they know which Wraith planet the mass of Asuran ships were headed to.

Now, considering TPTB appear to be writing Weir out of the series, launching a covert rescue operation wouldn't have suited that purpose very well, so I understand why the comment at the end was written the way it was.

Not sure if this makes sense, but I wanted to try and clarify where I was coming from. :o

Yup, makes sense.

Linzi
October 9th, 2007, 09:38 AM
shep's willingness to sacrifice liz to save the city is right in line with his willingness to sacrifice himself to save the city. 'the good of the many' and all that.

and, as much as it sucks, sometimes people have to die so that more can live

as to sam giving the order...i didn't see her as taking command of the city per se, as she had come up with the idea and was telling people what to do, just like she has at the sgc countless times. she's the tech expert and she tells people what to do in a tech situation
It's really funny, but I didn't even blink at Carter giving an order here. If I think back to TLG, Caldwell took over as leader of the city when Shep and Weir were incapacitated, and McKay didn't. I just took it that Carter was the more senior person there in the chain of command, and took over that position temporarily. That certainly made sense to me.

Skydiver
October 9th, 2007, 09:42 AM
I didn't see it as out of order. Now, had she been chatting with shep about damage control and what to fix when, THAT would have been out of place. She's just a house guest and, beyond perhaps offering to help, she really has no place in thier damage control.

And, honestly, she really has no right to offer her assistance in damage control without getting Landry's permission. Her task was to find atlantis, and saving the city kinda falls in line with those orders since finding it only to let it be destryed is kinda contradictory. But helping to clean up the mess? Not her job.

Not unless Shep called the SGC and asked for some manpower. And even then, Sam should consult with rod since it's his city not hers

Linzi
October 9th, 2007, 10:04 AM
I didn't see it as out of order. Now, had she been chatting with shep about damage control and what to fix when, THAT would have been out of place. She's just a house guest and, beyond perhaps offering to help, she really has no place in thier damage control.

And, honestly, she really has no right to offer her assistance in damage control without getting Landry's permission. Her task was to find atlantis, and saving the city kinda falls in line with those orders since finding it only to let it be destryed is kinda contradictory. But helping to clean up the mess? Not her job.

Not unless Shep called the SGC and asked for some manpower. And even then, Sam should consult with rod since it's his city not hers
It seemed like common sense to me really. She was just there, giving her help.

Killdeer
October 9th, 2007, 10:12 AM
It didn't really come across as an "order" per se to me anyway... it was more like she and McKay were working together and it was more of a comment as to what they should do next rather than an "order" that Rodney must obey. It's no different from a colleague and I working together on something at a computer and she saying, "Open up the proposal document". She doesn't outrank me and I was going to open the document anyway.. she's not ordering me to do something, she's just expressing what she thinks we need to do next.

Hmm, well, I'd have to say I agree with Alipeeps on this. I guess if people want to think of it as an order that's fine, but I didn't see it as an order. Maybe it would have been better for Rodney to be the one to say it, so it wouldn't have looked like Sam was directing traffic, but honestly, it didn't even register when I watched it, and I think it was more a case of two people working together on a project, neither one in control of the other.


I didn't see it as out of order. Now, had she been chatting with shep about damage control and what to fix when, THAT would have been out of place. She's just a house guest and, beyond perhaps offering to help, she really has no place in thier damage control.

And, honestly, she really has no right to offer her assistance in damage control without getting Landry's permission. Her task was to find atlantis, and saving the city kinda falls in line with those orders since finding it only to let it be destryed is kinda contradictory. But helping to clean up the mess? Not her job.

Not unless Shep called the SGC and asked for some manpower. And even then, Sam should consult with rod since it's his city not hers

And I agree here too. But it wasn't a situation of her giving orders that I saw. And when it came to decisions about what planet to land on and stuff, she stood back and let Shep and Rodney talk about it, and Shep made the call, as was appropriate. It'll be interesting to see her actually come on board as the commander this week and maybe get things in the right order. A lot will depend for me on how it's handled in Reunion. But other than a few minor irritations with line delivery, I haven't had a problem with Sam in Adrift and Lifeline. We'll see how it goes from here on out though.

AGateFan
October 9th, 2007, 10:21 AM
There's no more character development for her, which is ironic seeing that ford, beckett, and weir were dropped for that very same reason.
She may be in a new setting, on a new show, with a new position, but IMO, the leadership development isn't working. Maybe I'll be proven wrong by the end of the season.
Good. She's a Hammond Character. She doesn't need a lot of character development, we need to save that for Sheppard, McKay, Telya (who seriously needs some) and Ronan. Carter being an established character should help the focus stay on the main 4 team members of SGA.

Not that I would be against a tiny bit of development for her and the Dr and Zelenka and all the other guys but it should be miniscue compared to the SGA team.

I didnt really see Carter giving an order to Mckay either I saw it as Alipeeps saw it.

Shep has always been very driven by his emotions, which is probably one of the reasons no one expected him to make it to Lt Col. However, he's not an idiot and he already knows that Weir is compromised. He may have an emotional reason to want to save her and he may even have a logical reason to save her (not to let her fall further into enemy hands) but ultimatly the replicators had already won that battle and as a solider he had to recognize that. Knowing when to sacrafice and retreat and fight again another day is something that is necessary to be successful. He has sacraficed redshirts in the past so it is not completely out of character for him.

Linzi
October 9th, 2007, 10:40 AM
Hmm, well, I'd have to say I agree with Alipeeps on this. I guess if people want to think of it as an order that's fine, but I didn't see it as an order. Maybe it would have been better for Rodney to be the one to say it, so it wouldn't have looked like Sam was directing traffic, but honestly, it didn't even register when I watched it, and I think it was more a case of two people working together on a project, neither one in control of the other.



And I agree here too. But it wasn't a situation of her giving orders that I saw. And when it came to decisions about what planet to land on and stuff, she stood back and let Shep and Rodney talk about it, and Shep made the call, as was appropriate. It'll be interesting to see her actually come on board as the commander this week and maybe get things in the right order. A lot will depend for me on how it's handled in Reunion. But other than a few minor irritations with line delivery, I haven't had a problem with Sam in Adrift and Lifeline. We'll see how it goes from here on out though.
I agree with you about Reunion, I'm going to be very interested to see how that plays out, and what people's reactions are to the new boss.

I liked Carter in Adrift and Lifeline, and thought her integration here was excellent personally. I especially liked her balcony scene with Sheppard at the end, where she showed compassion and understanding, I thought.

One thing I'd like to know, and maybe someone with a military background can help me out here? If someone you know casually, but who isn't a best friend who was the same rank as you gets promoted, how would you address them? I mean at the end of Lifeline, Shep cheekily and sweetly salutes and calls her ma'am, but it seemed a bit...teasing, or amusingly said, though the sentiment was genuine, but would he always call her ma'am if he's known Carter before? Anybody know the etiquette? Because Sheppard didn't seem to really treat her as he would Ellis or Caldwell, but he knew her already before her promotion. Anyone have any idea?

prion
October 9th, 2007, 01:56 PM
I agree with you about Reunion, I'm going to be very interested to see how that plays out, and what people's reactions are to the new boss.

I liked Carter in Adrift and Lifeline, and thought her integration here was excellent personally. I especially liked her balcony scene with Sheppard at the end, where she showed compassion and understanding, I thought.

One thing I'd like to know, and maybe someone with a military background can help me out here? If someone you know casually, but who isn't a best friend who was the same rank as you gets promoted, how would you address them? I mean at the end of Lifeline, Shep cheekily and sweetly salutes and calls her ma'am, but it seemed a bit...teasing, or amusingly said, though the sentiment was genuine, but would he always call her ma'am if he's known Carter before? Anybody know the etiquette? Because Sheppard didn't seem to really treat her as he would Ellis or Caldwell, but he knew her already before her promotion. Anyone have any idea?

according to wikipedia
Military and police use
"Ma'am" is commonly used to address female officers of the rank of Inspector and above in British police forces and female Commissioned Officers and Warrant Officers in the British Armed Forces.

In the United States Armed Forces, "ma'am" (to rhyme with "ham") is used to address female commissioned officers and Warrant Officers. Marine recruits and Air Force trainees also address female non-commissioned officers as "ma'am."


I can't see Sheppard calling her Sam at all. Elizabeth was non-military, so that was different. So I'd think he'd address her as 'ma'am' or if things got stressed, 'colonel.' I'm sure she'll be calling him 'colonel' as well. Carter is a stickler for stuff like that, well, more so than other SG1 team members have ever been.

I think 'Reunion' will lay the groundwork as to how carter will behave in future episodes. If they integrate her in with no problems, then (no offense) Carter will be boring. If she's always nice and never has any conflict with the others, then we're going to lose some drama. That, or leave her in the office and let the team get into trouble on their own (like SG1 always did) ;)

Skydiver
October 9th, 2007, 02:35 PM
to me what sam did is like...you're a fire fighter and part of a crew. you're under the command of the chief, but your duty is to put out the fire in the first floor. so, in doing that, you tell folks belonging to anothe fire truck 'hey, bring a line over here to help'

no, they're nt your company, but you're both working towards the same goal, to put out the fire.

And if your asking for that line is gonna endanger what that other company's task is, then it's up to THEM to say 'no, i can't. i need to take this line over to the other side'

Agent_Dark
October 9th, 2007, 02:48 PM
One thing I'd like to know, and maybe someone with a military background can help me out here? If someone you know casually, but who isn't a best friend who was the same rank as you gets promoted, how would you address them? I mean at the end of Lifeline, Shep cheekily and sweetly salutes and calls her ma'am, but it seemed a bit...teasing, or amusingly said, though the sentiment was genuine, but would he always call her ma'am if he's known Carter before? Anybody know the etiquette? Because Sheppard didn't seem to really treat her as he would Ellis or Caldwell, but he knew her already before her promotion. Anyone have any idea?

Ma'am is basically the female version of Sir. If it was Colonel Samuel Carter, he would have said sir.

langdonboom
October 9th, 2007, 02:48 PM
I'm sure this has been said already ten times but I really was dissapointed that the big plot-twist/pay off in this episode was lifted whole-cloth from one of the best episodes of late SG-1, Reckoning.

Daniel stops the replicators/Weir stops the replicators
Daniel can't hang on too long/Weir can't hang on too long

The bit about her getting some payback from the Asurans for her own nightmarish experiences was cool, but this episode felt tossed-off to me, not heavy and definitely featured too much 'funny banter' especially of the McKay "This might not work" variety -- got so repetitive!

I'm really hoping Atlantis finds a voice in this fourth season.

Linzi
October 9th, 2007, 02:52 PM
Ma'am is basically the female version of Sir. If it was Colonel Samuel Carter, he would have said sir.
Yes, I know :) What I mean is, well, in future episodes, will he call her Ma'am, or be more familiar with her because he knew her before her promotion? Will he just call her Colonel? Because Sheppard didn't treat Carter the way he does Ellis for example. His talk with Carter at the end was relaxed and friendly, and informal and I wondered why. I'm not making much sense and I can't go into details here because I was thinking of DG here too, and the way he interacted with her in that eppie. Maybe I should go to the DG thread! :lol:

MmmmMcKAy
October 9th, 2007, 04:59 PM
Pretty good episode. Weir rocked!:)

I don't get all the complaining about Rodney whining. He didn't whine. He just explained how things could go and what he had to do.

Actually, Shepard was the one whining....get it done faster, make it simple etc.

But the Rodney long-winded explaination followed by the Shepard complaint does get old. Even Ronan was getting into the act.

prion
October 9th, 2007, 05:12 PM
Yes, I know :) What I mean is, well, in future episodes, will he call her Ma'am, or be more familiar with her because he knew her before her promotion? Will he just call her Colonel? Because Sheppard didn't treat Carter the way he does Ellis for example. His talk with Carter at the end was relaxed and friendly, and informal and I wondered why. I'm not making much sense and I can't go into details here because I was thinking of DG here too, and the way he interacted with her in that eppie. Maybe I should go to the DG thread! :lol:

She's his superior, so I seriously doubt they'll be on a first name basis due to the military aspect of it. Sure don't see him calling Caldwell or Ellis by their first names.

Relaxed or not, there's the chain of command and while he does break rules here and there, it's always for a greater cause, like saving a life. However, if the writers do choose to go the "Sam" route, I hope we're halfway through the season before they do that.

AGateFan
October 9th, 2007, 05:14 PM
Yes, I know :) What I mean is, well, in future episodes, will he call her Ma'am, or be more familiar with her because he knew her before her promotion? Will he just call her Colonel? Because Sheppard didn't treat Carter the way he does Ellis for example. His talk with Carter at the end was relaxed and friendly, and informal and I wondered why. I'm not making much sense and I can't go into details here because I was thinking of DG here too, and the way he interacted with her in that eppie. Maybe I should go to the DG thread! :lol:
I suspect it will be like Carter and O'Neill or O'Neill and Hammond. When they are at work it is all Colonel, Colonel Carter or Ma'am... in more informal occassions (or if he is trying to talk her into a course of action and they are in private) it probably will be Sam.

I expect she will refer to him equally professionally in the professional setting with first names left for off duty situations.

Of course once your used to calling someone something at work you may continue to call them that after work but that may just be habit.

You even see Sheppard calling Weir, Dr. Weir when the situation called for it. But Weir may have instituted a "call me Elizabeth" rule, though it sure seemed like they called her the more in this particular ep then ever before, so maybe the writers were trying to make Weirs going away even more personal then it already was.

Killdeer
October 9th, 2007, 06:11 PM
I've never gotten the impression that Shep and Carter were even enough of acquaintences before her promotion that he would address her by her first name. Do we have any evidence that he's ever even met her other than in Pegasus Project, other than possibly running into each other at the SGC once or twice if Shep happened to be on earth? Shep probably knows her more through Rodney talking about her than through being around her himself.

I mean - with Mitchell and Carter they seemed to be long-time friends. That was never stated, but the way they acted with each other kind of seemed like a friendship that predated Avalon by quite a bit. But I'm not getting anything like that vibe from Shep. To me, he knows of her, he respects her, she's just helped them out of a tough situation. But I never got any sense that they were ever relaxed enough with each other, even before the promotion, to use first names. So I'd be really really surprised if he ever called her Sam, even in a casual situation.

Mattathias2.0
October 9th, 2007, 06:20 PM
Well, her badge, in Lifeline, has her name.

Besides that, the fact that they met in The Pegasus Project wasn't enough?

They could have crossed paths in Rising, The Intruder, or even The Return I.

Killdeer
October 9th, 2007, 06:27 PM
Well, her badge, in Lifeline, has her name.

Besides that, the fact that they met in The Pegasus Project wasn't enough?

They could have crossed paths in Rising, The Intruder, or even The Return I.

I'm really sorry, but I'm completely confused about what you're saying here. :confused: (not getting the point)

Mattathias2.0
October 9th, 2007, 06:38 PM
I'm really sorry, but I'm completely confused about what you're saying here. :confused: (not getting the point)

Obviously, in Rising, we know O'Neill and Jackson were in the SGC when the team was leaving. In The Intruder, a huge part of the episode is flashback sequences of what happened at the SGC. And in The Return I, clearly Sheppard ends up working on a team for the SGC.

I am just saying that if they could have met (off-screen), those instances could have been possible times for that to occur.

thegeek
October 9th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Did anyone else notice the single largest oops in the whole two-parter.

1. atlantis has sensors that can scan about one eight to one quarter of hte galaxy.

2. they are within a mere 2000 lightyears of the replicators.

3. and they don't notice the only giant flying city in the galaxy on their DOORSTEPP!

I guess if the replicators had come a callin' even the writers would have had a hard time getting the lead characters out alive.

Killdeer
October 9th, 2007, 07:15 PM
Obviously, in Rising, we know O'Neill and Jackson were in the SGC when the team was leaving. In The Intruder, a huge part of the episode is flashback sequences of what happened at the SGC. And in The Return I, clearly Sheppard ends up working on a team for the SGC.

I am just saying that if they could have met (off-screen), those instances could have been possible times for that to occur.

Oh. Yeah, I agree with that. I don't deny that they could have met other than in PP, but I highly doubt they ever got to a first name basis, even before Carter's promotion. That's all I was saying.

Ruffles
October 9th, 2007, 07:41 PM
Pretty good episode. Weir rocked!:)

I don't get all the complaining about Rodney whining. He didn't whine. He just explained how things could go and what he had to do.

I watched it again, and I have to say that I agree with you here. It wasn't so much whining as a short-tempered "understand how hard this is" frustration. I think my issue was the change in the relationship between him and Sheppard from Adrift to Lifeline. In Adrift, they acted like adults and friends. Here they were back to the same-old same-old routine we've seen 100 times.

Maybe it was the result of the fight over activating the nanites. Maybe it was the stress of the situation. I love the teasing and insults, but the short-tempered sniping wore a little thin. It didn't bother me as much the second time as it did the first.


Oh. Yeah, I agree with that. I don't deny that they could have met other than in PP, but I highly doubt they ever got to a first name basis, even before Carter's promotion. That's all I was saying.

I don't think Sheppard would ever call her Sam (especially once she is his commanding officer) unless she specifically asked him to do so and then only off duty. I anticipate him calling her Colonel.

Skydiver
October 9th, 2007, 08:42 PM
i have to agree. He will rarely if ever call her sam (probably on par with how often sam called Jack, Jack...which was less than once a season)

she will be colonel 99% of the time

In fact, the only one i can really see pushing the 'sam' is Rodney...and i imagine that Sam will need to remind him that 'sexy' isn't appropriate :)

PG15
October 9th, 2007, 11:25 PM
S.P.E.C.T.A.C.U.L.A.R

Let it be known that this was the first time in Stargate Atlantis history that I thought the 2nd episode of a season was better than the first. The Great Carl Binder hit it out of the park. Sorry, did I say park? I mean the PEGASUS FREAKING GALAXY, LIKE WOAH.

See what I did there? Yeah. Anyway, just a little preword: I have been immersing myself in Avatar: The Last Airbender fandom for the last year now, and I have learned some new ways of gushing about episodes. "LIKE WOAH" and speaking in ALL CAPS seem to do the trick. I shall now try to implement this on an Atlantis review.

---

Ok, it's not gonna work.

Anywho, as I said earlier in oh-so-respective tones, Carl Binder did an amazing job writing this episode, and Martin Wood did an amazing job directing this episode, and the actors, especially Torri Higginson (obviously), were fantastic in this episode, and of course, I need to thank all the unsung heroes of Stargate production, the crew working behind the scenes whose names we just don't know because they're so always back there. But anyway, the effort shown in this episode can't really be overemphasized IMHO, and it was AWESOME.

Firstly, the music: Joel Goldsmith, why must your talent make the world go around the sun? Because that's what it feels like sometimes, like, UM, THIS WHOLE EPISODE? Srsly, the entering-hyperdrive scene, the scans of the HAWT Asuran city, the landing...all masterpieces that I will watch over and over again because of the music (amongst other things). Brilliant. Brilliant.

CGI. Dudes, why must your talent...uh...make the wavefunction squared be the probability density function? Because, like, 'tis how it feels man. Again, ridiculously breathtaking CGI does a fangasm make. I was literally shouting with joy at the various scenes in the Asuran city and of course the landing (which I slo-moed to watch again and again and again). But of course, there was also the Shep=Weir transformation that just blew me away with it subtleness. I slo-moed that too. So many more things to mention here; that Replicator City! It felt like Coruscant...except better? I mean, we're talking movie budget stuff here, and I was watching it on my monitor, and the video wasn't even that clear!! Like OMG!

Carl Binder does twists like Debbie does Dallas: beautifully. I had known that there was going to be some freaky Weir/Shep CGI transformation-from-heaven going on in Adrift or this episode, but never, not in a million years, did I thought it was going to put to use this way. I did not see that twist coming AT ALL. For a moment I thought John and Rodney had downloaded some virus into the core alongside the Wraith-code-of-Afternoon-Delight, but nope, it was just Weir kicking mindass!

Speaking of mindasses, Weir sure kicked some! She (and in turn, Torri) was abso-effing-lutely brilliant in this episode. I sensed her strength through out, and yet there were times of vulnerability (notice the first time we saw her, she turned to the team and pulled her medical gown down to hide her, well, body. I thought it was so cute!), and childish wonderment, when she saw the replicator city with her MIND. I LOVED LOVED LOVED, LIKE SERIOUSLY LOVED her scenes with Oberoth in this episode. He was so freakingly mechanical, while she was as human as you can possibly get. It was an intoxicating combination that just sucked me in like nobody's business.

I so wish I could go on and on about Torri's greatness in this episode, but...I WOULD DIE OF OLD AGE BEFORE I FINISH? Seriously.

Seriously.

Ok, moving on then. Oberoth: my God man, if they never bring him back, I will personally...well, do something that I'd regret, I'm sure. I had watched some of the Season 3 DVD specials a few weeks ago, and remembered in the Progeny directors special that they had mentioned how David Stiers put in some subtle hints that make his performance so much more mechanical and menacing. For instance, how he turns his head and his eyes NOT at the same time. Well, I focused on that this episode, and realized so many more of these little acting choices that really just floored me. For instance, in his mind duel with Liz, how he says "Your desire to protect your people is admirable. But you will (uptick of head, smiles even) ultimately (lowers head, grimaces) fail." So subtle, yet so awesome. Brilliant, brilliant actor, who NEEDS TO COME BACK OR I SHALL PROTEST, YO.

Oy, what else? How's about everything? Loved the team interactions and little character hints (Shep and Ronon going "what?!" at the same time in the core room when McKay started his computer jibber jabber, which I loved too, by the way. Now THAT is Technobabble ladies and gentlemen), loved the little sound Dr. Lee's camera made, and I was very glad to see Sam loosening up a little bit in this episode. Very awesomesaucetasticnessityic.

I hope to see many more glorious stock shots of Atlantis floating on New Lantia. Or, as I would call it, the AWESOME PLANET BECAUSE IT WAS INTRODUCED IN THE AWESOME EPISODE LIFELINE, or AWESOME PLANET for short and maximum internet loudness.

Oh yeah, and one final thing before I get to the stuff I didn't like (yes, there is 1...sort of): In the flocking package delivered to me by Joe Mallozzi personally...through the postal service, I recieved a super secret vague spoiler that said: IT'S WAR! Well, I think we all know what that means now, right? Right? Yeeeeeeahhh.

God, I can't wait to see how this goes down! Wraith vs. Replicator, battle of the century folks.

Ok, if there's one thing that I wanted to see but didn't in this episode, it would be a shot at the very end, showing the Replicator fleet traveling through space with its immense numbers, and with RepliWeir commanding one of the ships. That'd be cool.

Still, that little "annoyance" only bumped the grade (hah, I mistyped it as "great"; oh yeah it was!) down by a Planck Time, so I still give it...

Score: 10/10, for realz.

:D

AutumnDream
October 10th, 2007, 12:05 AM
Holy crap, PG. Your typing style has become a carbon copy of my former significant other's. It's creepin' me out.

Wait... is that you?!

expendable_crewman
October 10th, 2007, 09:02 AM
i have to agree. He will rarely if ever call her sam (probably on par with how often sam called Jack, Jack...which was less than once a season)

she will be colonel 99% of the time

In fact, the only one i can really see pushing the 'sam' is Rodney...and i imagine that Sam will need to remind him that 'sexy' isn't appropriate :)

Agreed. Sheppard should be to Sam the way Lorne is to him, sir (or in Sam's case, ma'am) all the time.

prion
October 10th, 2007, 09:35 AM
I've never gotten the impression that Shep and Carter were even enough of acquaintences before her promotion that he would address her by her first name. Do we have any evidence that he's ever even met her other than in Pegasus Project, other than possibly running into each other at the SGC once or twice if Shep happened to be on earth? Shep probably knows her more through Rodney talking about her than through being around her himself.

Not that I've seen. I think Pegasus Project was probably the first time they met. I say it'll be 'colonel' or 'ma'am.'

sweetsamurai
October 10th, 2007, 02:17 PM
I'm really hoping Atlantis finds a voice in this fourth season.

I agree with you. I did like this episode, but I said to my Sister afterwards, that it's becoming the same kind of bantering with the same tone. I hope it becomes refreshed in its humour and change how they sprinkle candy on the plot.

I loved though when Mckay refers to Zelenka as, "Timmy Torture" haha - that had me laughing my sweet ass off.

I was once again dissapointed of the lack of Teyla. She is a great strong female character, rarely seen these days on TV. I, as a non bimbo female, need and love to see these characters play a integral role to humour and plot and action in my Sci-fi. I hope there is more of her in the next episode.

I loved Ronan running about and stuff, lol. And of course SHeppard being all forceful in action. He is becoming a lot more strict and bossy but It goes with the situation with Weir - so I like that a lot.

I wasn't bothered when I heard that Weir was leaving because I am excited about Carter, but I found myself welling up slightly at the thought that she was stuck with the Replicators. I wish they had rescued her and she decided to take some time off in Earth. They might do what they did with Daniel. Beckett might visit Weir while she is being tortured by the replicators. But I hope not. Ah, save Weir and save Beckett!

I'm a bit confused on why Mckay could not initiate the killswitch on Weir. If any one can clear that one up for me I would be grateful.

Good episode but I preferred Adrift.

garhkal
October 10th, 2007, 03:24 PM
IMO that was because she had already been in close enough proximity to the other Asurans they had rewrote that part of her code... Either that or they saw it, and jammed his comm unit.

Alipeeps
October 10th, 2007, 03:40 PM
I'm a bit confused on why Mckay could not initiate the killswitch on Weir. If any one can clear that one up for me I would be grateful.


I think the suggestion was (as mentioned by McKay) that she was able to block the command herself, as she had some control over the nanites. She must have known they would at least think about using the killswitch when she ran off like that (she had ordered them to herself) but she didn't want to be stopped, she had a plan and she was determined to do what she could to save her team.

PG15
October 10th, 2007, 04:22 PM
Holy crap, PG. Your typing style has become a carbon copy of my former significant other's. It's creepin' me out.


Well then, he/she was certainly a fanboy/girl of something alright. ;)

Mitchell82
October 10th, 2007, 07:18 PM
I disagree Sheppard was different here. He would never go back for a team member if other people's lives were at stake - IE the whole expedition. He would sacrifice one person to save many others. He'd risk his own life for Weir without hesitation, but not anyone else's. He is in charge, he's leader, it's his job to protect all the inhabitants of Atlantis. If the mission fails and they don't return with a ZPM, then it's doubtful anyone would have survived, in my opinion. Certainly Atlantis itself wouldn't have, though Zelenka and Teyla may have been able to ferry people to another planet by PJ.

I'm not sure Earth or Atlantis is in any position to take on the might of the replicators. Let's be honest, Atlantis survived by the skin of its teeth here. Would they risk a full scale battle/controntation to save one person, who may already be dead? I don't think so. They are in no position to go back to Asura, which presumably is where Weir is. How would they get into the city? The only ZPM they have is needed for the city's protection, and with the few resources they have, it would be suicide to go back for Weir at this stage - and that's presuming she's alive, or not compromised.

So, for me, Sheppard's behaviour was realistic. He was in charge, had to get the ZPM back to save the city. What else could he have done? Sacrificed hundreds of lives for his boss? He'd lose his job if he'd done that, and as much as he cares for Weir, she was the one who risked her life to save the city and the team, and as reluctant as he was to leave, Sheppard knew her sacrifice would be in vain if he'd stayed behind. He couldn't have fought off the many replicators who had surrounded Weir, and retrieved her, and then the replicators would have had two more prisoners, or just killed them. So, he reluctantly left, knowing it was his only course of action. He made a decision on the spot, knowing trying to help Weir was futile at that point. When he got back, he'd be in no position to consider trying to mount a rescue for Weir. As mentioned before, they'd never be able to infiltrate Asura again. So, for the moment, his hands are tied. His last comments about finding her if she's alive make me think that he's not even sure she is, which would make it even more difficult for him to get approval to launch a rescue mission for one person, even if it is a dear friend and colleague. In fact, Carter's words make it sound like Landry et al see Weir as a casualty of war. I don't see Sheppard as giving up on Weir here without much of a fight, though I have no doubt he's devastated at her loss. :(
So, for me, Sheppard was true to who he's always been here.

Edit: I hope that ramble made sense!!!! :o
Nice post agree 100%!

Mister Oragahn
October 11th, 2007, 04:55 AM
Question: how do you pull yourself off from an absolutely ****ty situation you've put yourself into, thanks to two years of poor writing and nonsensical main arcs, and massive fan pandering, to the expense of actual artistic integrity?

You reset the universe, nevermind if the reset itself feels completely forced, implausible, stupid and illogical.
And that's precisely what we get here. In every, single, way. But that's the price to pay.

It is really sad that action focused episodes get so stupid.
Adrift was rather meh, but a positive meh. However, as it goes for multi parter episodes, they either succeed more or less (transitions from season 2 to 3) or fail horribly (The Lost Boys - The Hive).

There are good points in that episode (Carter and Lee, to some extent, though they do not feel pro, and I have hard times seeing how that Carter can be put in charge of Atlantis, instead of, say, Caldwell or Ellis).
Those good points... they're miserably overshadowed by the real hard amount of true crap.

So, here's my stance: I knew there were just to many chances for that season premiere to suck big balls, for the show to depart to get away from an extravagant situation built upon two former seasons, even more since they had only two episodes, top, to change the situation.
It's like walking backwards, through the same crap, but faster. They managed to dodge the most horrible bits (though there's a bit of Irresponsible kind of humour with the absolutely stupid penetrate joke - I just can't see how this is supposed to make the show better, or more believable in that context), but globally, it's pure nonsense compressed.

Now, that said, we'll digest that absolutely awful reset, and see if they can actually write a decent season of Stargate Atlantis, and see if they put it back on good rails, just as when we were leaving season 1 and entering season 2 (Siege pt II and Intruder).

Mister Oragahn
October 11th, 2007, 04:59 AM
Did anyone else notice the single largest oops in the whole two-parter.

1. atlantis has sensors that can scan about one eight to one quarter of hte galaxy.

2. they are within a mere 2000 lightyears of the replicators.

3. and they don't notice the only giant flying city in the galaxy on their DOORSTEPP!

I guess if the replicators had come a callin' even the writers would have had a hard time getting the lead characters out alive.

Shh, Atlantis is plot-cloaked.

Sure, that's just another completely stupid thing. We can see them, why can't they see us? Oh but nevermind.

I got a very bad feeling.

Orovingwen
October 11th, 2007, 05:44 AM
Energy problems AGAIN?
Guys, this is nit interesting anymore, exspecially when you actually should have a zpm-production-facility on atlantis. I mean they wouldn't build a city-ship whithout it. I don't think the Ancients could build zpms with their bare hands out of lego bricks.
oh and because we have never seen it before we get to one zpm on a suicid mission where we oh surprise loose Weir (because we have to get rid of her somehow and what is easier then throw her in the arms of her new family) and oh my god bigger surprise get rescued from "a third party" (this time by the Apollo).

So the mainplot isn't very interesting, at least Shep and McKay were as much annoyed by each other then I was by them. Torri did a great job and the way atlantis is going I would want to watch her new Show "Weir and the Replicators" but since I know Stargate for a while now I don't think this one will ever air.
Loved Teyla&Ronon at the end in Weir's office! toally cuty moment they had! But no tehy have to ruin the whole thing by talking about it's sooo sad that Weir is gone and that it's sooo hard tfor her replacement o fill her shoes. Hello? You really want us to hate whoever (and we actually already know who that will be) is going to be leader of Atlantis. It's like cut off one's nose to spite one's face...

Also liked the scene between Radek and Rodney in the jumper "I didn't try to kill you..." :D no not kill.. but maybe cause a bit of pain^^

But I didn't like Shep that much because he goes from "easily kill Weir" to "oMG Weir is the most important thing in the world". hello? Yeah that Wier is replicator is a hard thing to swollow (for everyone) and then to leave her there - of course. But at the beginning I liked his attitude about trust her doing the mission and having a failsafe off-switch ready. But risk the mission to go deeper in the lion's den when he has the chance to get out. *headdesk* I know Shep is a bad military guy but that? Just stupid.

I mean I liked the episode but it has so many things in it, that shows how much of a "Voyager-Syndrom" this show has. Getting rid of good story(-line)s and repeating the same over and over again.

SoulReaver
October 11th, 2007, 02:44 PM
Energy problems AGAIN?
Guys, this is nit interesting anymore, exspecially when you actually should have a zpm-production-facility on atlantis.yeah but facilities are kinda useless when you don't have the main ingredient (energy)

SoulReaver
October 11th, 2007, 02:46 PM
Did anyone else notice the single largest oops in the whole two-parter.

1. atlantis has sensors that can scan about one eight to one quarter of hte galaxy.

2. they are within a mere 2000 lightyears of the replicators.

3. and they don't notice the only giant flying city in the galaxy on their DOORSTEPP!

I guess if the replicators had come a callin' even the writers would have had a hard time getting the lead characters out alive.yep looks like another inconsistency

unless...

unless this is due to the fact that unlike the asurans, the A-team knew exactly where to look to begin with (the ausrans on the other hand did not). sensors normal work by performing a "360° sweep" around them (so that they don't miss anything) however my guess is if they restrict the sensor scan to a narrow "cone" focused on a given area this can greatly boost the sensor's power (range) - but only in that specific direction. a bit like keeping a "sensor lock" on a target (like in Star Trek - TnG :sheppardanime21: )

Chailyn
October 11th, 2007, 05:17 PM
Well, I thought this one was a lot better than "Adrift". As someone who has had lukewarm feelings for Weir in the past, I really liked her in this ep. In fact, the whole nanites thing gives a great, new dimension to her character. And I loved the forceful, strong last order to Sheppard. I've been waiting for a really strong moment from one of the female characters, and Weir gave it. Completely in control and decisive, even when everything was crashing down. I wish we could see more of her as she was written in this ep.

I liked Sheppard and the way he took charge. Shockingly, as much as I love Rodney, he was completely grating on my nerves. I think some of the banter was misplaced for this type of ep. Ronon keeps warming up to me. He has that strong, sensitive, silent thing going on. His scene in the office with Teyla was very touching. I also liked the way Teyla captured the "loss" of Weir, even if it was a bit premature. Radek rocked, as always.

The only thing I didn't like was Teyla being left in charge. I didn't buy it when Weir did it and I didn't buy it now. It almost acts as a reminder that if Weir and Sheppard take off, there's really not an organized structure on Atlantis. I would hope that, in case something happened to both Sheppard and Weir, that the US military would have someone there to step up. In S1 we had Bates. So maybe Lorne? Someone else? I mean, Sheppard actually had to ask someone to take charge. It's not exactly like asking a friend to water your plants when you go on vacation. There should be plans for these types of situations. Besides, what was the point of even putting Teyla in charge? We didn't even get the chance to see her do anything, which is a shame. It just seemed like an afterthought to me to explain her absence. "Oh, yeah, you're in charge of Atlantis." And then it wasn't mentioned again.

The jury's still out on Carter, but I think she was okay in this one. The guy she was with seemed a little annoying though. She had to constantly correct him and keep him in line.

Overall, I really liked it. It gives me hope for the season. :)

Ltcolshepjumper
October 11th, 2007, 05:32 PM
The jury's still out on Carter, but I think she was okay in this one. The guy she was with seemed a little annoying though. She had to constantly correct him and keep him in line.

Overall, I really liked it. It gives me hope for the season. :)

you mean Dr. Lee? Yeah, his appearance was unnecessary.

Chailyn
October 11th, 2007, 06:18 PM
you mean Dr. Lee? Yeah, his appearance was unnecessary.

Yeah, I guess so. I haven't watched all the SG1 seasons, so I didn't recognize him. He seemed funny, obvious comic relief, but I wasn't really sure why he was there. Carter seemed to have all the ideas. He just seemed to be along for the ride.

Ruffles
October 11th, 2007, 09:33 PM
The only thing I didn't like was Teyla being left in charge. I didn't buy it when Weir did it and I didn't buy it now. It almost acts as a reminder that if Weir and Sheppard take off, there's really not an organized structure on Atlantis. I would hope that, in case something happened to both Sheppard and Weir, that the US military would have someone there to step up. In S1 we had Bates. So maybe Lorne? Someone else? I mean, Sheppard actually had to ask someone to take charge. It's not exactly like asking a friend to water your plants when you go on vacation. There should be plans for these types of situations. Besides, what was the point of even putting Teyla in charge? We didn't even get the chance to see her do anything, which is a shame. It just seemed like an afterthought to me to explain her absence. "Oh, yeah, you're in charge of Atlantis." And then it wasn't mentioned again.


Remember that almost everyone (including Lorne) was on the Apollo. There was a skeleton crew running Atlantis. Weir had left Teyla in charge on numerous occasions. But Sheppard's request was for Teyla to lead them in settling on a new planet (after abandoning the city). I can't think of anyone more qualified than Teyla to do that.

Linzi
October 11th, 2007, 11:12 PM
Remember that almost everyone (including Lorne) was on the Apollo. There was a skeleton crew running Atlantis. Weir had left Teyla in charge on numerous occasions. But Sheppard's request was for Teyla to lead them in settling on a new planet (after abandoning the city). I can't think of anyone more qualified than Teyla to do that.
I agree here. Teyla is a leader of her own people, and she has been left in charge before, so she seemed the natural choice, especially as Lorne was on the Apollo, not that I'm sure I'd choose him to be in charge of Atlantis anyway. Teyla has had experience and shows more leadership qualities than Lorne ever has, in my opinion.

Samildanach
October 12th, 2007, 07:17 AM
Liked the episode, thought it was very good, however Rodney just coming up with the commands at that point in time to make the replicators attack the wraith out of millions of lines of code just on the off chance was a little unbelieveable...although possible...about a 5 million to one chance.

I'm also fairly convinced that activating that code is not going to be a good thing in the long run. If it was going to be such a good idea the ancients would have done it already. There must be a very good reason that it wasn't done in the first place.

I'm also a bit disappointed in the writers when it comes to the Atlantean database. I believe at some point when they were trying to take as much of the database with them as possible in an attempt to leave atlantis that they might have been able to take I think it was 7% or so? The entire database should have been transferred to Earth by now and hundreds if not thousands of people should have been analysing it for months now. Not to mention the fact that now the city is in space why the hell are they putting it back down on a planet in the pegasys galaxy? Take the stargate out of it, establish a base on a planet (like the one they have now landed on or leave the stargate in the apollo) and fly the city back to earth where we can deconstruct it and hopefully learn how to build more of them.

the city so far just seems to be one big target for the enemy, sure it can fire the occasional drone here and there but really by leaving such a valuable asset in the pegasys galaxy its like leaving you networth under your matress. Get Atlantis away from the war zone and back where we can canabilise it for technology and ideas. Leave 15 jumpers if necessary to get about.

Jumper_One
October 12th, 2007, 06:07 PM
Not to mention the fact that now the city is in space why the hell are they putting it back down on a planet in the pegasys galaxy? Take the stargate out of it, establish a base on a planet (like the one they have now landed on or leave the stargate in the apollo) and fly the city back to earth where we can deconstruct it and hopefully learn how to build more of them.

the city so far just seems to be one big target for the enemy, sure it can fire the occasional drone here and there but really by leaving such a valuable asset in the pegasys galaxy its like leaving you networth under your matress. Get Atlantis away from the war zone and back where we can canabilise it for technology and ideas. Leave 15 jumpers if necessary to get about.

they can't just establish a base and leave for Earth. the whole concept of SGA would stop working ;) besides don't you think we'll stand a far better chance against the Wraith and the Asurans with Atlantis rather than a little base on some planet? sure the technology is pretty cool and we should really start understanding it better but we're probably doing that anyway (you know, between all the fighting for our lifes and stuff...). although your way would be a lot faster of course. and right now the city isn't a target at all since nobody knows where we are

Ltcolshepjumper
October 12th, 2007, 06:31 PM
The whole point is for Earth to have an established base in the Pegasus Galaxy. It would be pretty hard to accomplish that goal if Atlantis were brought back to earth. That and the fact that every satellite in orbit would pick it up as it landed.

Naonak
October 14th, 2007, 06:40 AM
That was fantastic.

Didn't see it coming at all that the capture was Weir screwing with Oberoth. http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/sheppard/sheppardanime18.gif

I disagree with the people complaining about McKay being back to his "old" self. It's how he still is, most of the time. I see his behaviour in 'Adrift' as a side of him that comes out when he has to take charge of a situation, but if he doesn't he'll be his usual self, like in this episode.
There was something similar in 'Epiphany' - he was the one who had to save Sheppard then, so the other side came through and he took control.

As with 'Adrift', I must have missed the "dumb Sheppard" bits. http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/sheppard/sheppardanime31.gif

9/10

Alan
October 16th, 2007, 01:45 PM
Wow! I really enjoyed that! Very satisfying conclusion to this 3-parter!

Definitely a well deserved 10 out of 10! :)

I can't wait for next weeks episode...Reunion! :D

Matt G
October 16th, 2007, 03:58 PM
OK

1. Didn't have a problem with the Teyla leadership thing.

2. Did have a problem with the "Asuran job" part of the plot ending that soon, and conveniently McKay comes up with an insane plan. Rodney, you're deep in enemy territory, don't get greedy.

3. "Problems?" Nice one Liz! Probably her best ep for ages!

4. "Well you'd better take a picture...we're ready to beam up".

5. So officially Sheppard's still running Atlantis, fine.

Overall, had its moments but felt a little anti-climatic. Preferred Adrift.

Promethius30
October 17th, 2007, 04:07 AM
I did like this ep not as much as adrift
I would give a 8/10

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 18th, 2007, 09:41 PM
LIFELINE was extremly good we finally got to see a replicator-controlled ship. problem is they will have to find another way to remodulated the ARG's so they can use them against the replicators. it was sad to see Sheppard leave Elizabeth Behind. i want to know what other two episodes she's in. i know the other 2 are this mortal coil and one other one i think it might be either spoils of war or be all my sins remember'd.

Short Angel
October 18th, 2007, 10:51 PM
Lifeline was a good episode, and a great one for Weir because it is one of the first times we actually see her off world in the action. It was so sad to see what happened to the character though at the end, especially when, in my opinion, she had so much potential. Being a Weir fan, the end brought down the whole episode for me. I can't wait to see what other episodes she's in though.

Matt G
October 19th, 2007, 02:35 PM
Weir's certainly been offworld in previous eps, particularly Progeny.

Yeade
November 5th, 2007, 10:29 AM
Unlike "Adrift," I've only been able to watch "Lifeline" once, so my memory of the episode is a bit hazy. Please feel free to correct any mistakes I might make.

My general impression is that "Lifeline" was another episode I enjoyed. The ZPM heist did seem to go far smoother and faster than I expected. However, the Asurans strike me as too arrogant to consider the possibility of someone attacking their homeworld in any fashion, i.e. security was lax, Weir provided crucial back-door access to the system, and the Atlanteans had one of their occasional runs of good luck.

Naturally, just when the SGA folks start hoping everything will be all right, things go pear-shaped. :p

Well, I think the Atlanteans largely brought the end situation on themselves by staying to activate the Asurans' Wraith kill code. Their mission, I felt, depended on stealth and surprise, which can't possibly last when roaming around a city of Replicators, and Atlantis badly needed that ZPM, fast, so there was little excuse for delay. OTOH, the chance to set the Asurans on the Wraith was a once-in-a-lifetime sort and, if successful, would completely upset the strategic outlook of the entire galaxy. The best possible outcome, IMO, is that the two Pegasus superpowers would war with each other, taking the pressure off human forces that have been fighting both and creating a real possibility that the Wraith and Asurans would, if not wipe each other out, severely weaken each other, at which point humans might be able to wrest control of the galaxy from them. That would be fantastic for both Atlantis and all other Pegasus humans and, I think, it was worth the risk. Things that decide the fate of the galaxy usually are, lol.

I thought Weir was very impressive and found her view of the Asuran systems fascinating (wonder if Ancient technology users get the same effect?). I liked that there were limitations to what she could accomplish but also that she, by stint of her iron will and relentless drive to protect her people, could temporarily do more than, I suspect, she or anyone else expects. I'm not sure what will become of her now--there are so many possibilities! One issue I hope will be addressed is how the Wraith kill code affects Weir. Her nanites, though they give her access to the Asuran collective, seem to operate more or less independent of it. Given McKay's fiddling and Weir's unique situation, I think it's possible she feels no compulsion to kill Wraith or do anything despite the fact that her nanites originated from, IIRC, Niam. She's a sort of isolated system, and I wonder if the Asurans would in fact be very interested in her because she might be the key to their disabling the Wraith kill code and otherwise rewriting previously untouchable parts of their base code.

Um. What else? Thinking it over, I suspect Sheppard might've made his decision to leave McKay to watch Weir and possibly kill her out of residual feeling (anger? hurt?) about McKay activating the nanites in "Adrift." At least in part.

One of the things McKay didn't consider in "Adrift," IMO, is all that would happen if the nanites proved uncontrollable. Even if the nanites didn't contact the Replicators, if Weir had proved a danger to Atlantis and the people in the city, someone would've had to stop her. And Sheppard was likely to have been that someone. Instead of Weir dying of her injuries, McKay had, in essence, forced on Sheppard the possibility of being directly responsible for Weir's death--by his hand because, if she had proved a violent threat, he would've dealt with her personally, I feel. This impression hit me most strongly during Weir's awakening in "Adrift": Sheppard pulled his gun on her. He didn't aim it at her, but he had it ready in case he had to shoot her.

Getting back to "Lifeline," I think Weir had by now shown that she wasn't going to attack anybody. So, Sheppard left the task of shutting down her nanites and killing her to McKay in his, perhaps subconscious, desire for McKay to understand and take one of the possible personal consequences of his actions in "Adrift."

I, er, can't think of anything else right now. :o

meem
November 21st, 2007, 04:55 AM
Personally i was a little disturbed by this episode, ok so I'm a huge Torri / Weir fan so I'm bias but the apparent ease by which they left her behind (I know they had no choice but they seemed so fine with it - Sheppard had mentioned in a previous episode that he would die for her, what happened??!!!)

And then the fact they just acted as though she was dead afterwards, packing up her stuff etc. I know John mentioned that it wasn't over, but come on, everyone acted as though it was no big deal. I always feel a little let down when something like this happens, so much for loyalty, team spirit and friendship!!

Achaja
November 24th, 2007, 01:11 PM
The best episode untill now! Very very interesting plot and so much action, great ideas! 10/10 points :)

Mitchell82
December 22nd, 2007, 07:37 PM
Lifeline was a good episode, and a great one for Weir because it is one of the first times we actually see her off world in the action. It was so sad to see what happened to the character though at the end, especially when, in my opinion, she had so much potential. Being a Weir fan, the end brought down the whole episode for me. I can't wait to see what other episodes she's in though.

It was an extremly good episode and Weir finally became interesting.

brooksyy
December 29th, 2007, 03:23 PM
I loved the scene's where they were landing the city. that was really well done.

However, I think that they should have aimed to steal 2 or 3, ZPMs then they wouldn't have power restraints and could do basicly anything, even as Rodney said in Season 2 "A ZPM, is a ZPM who cares where it came from, two is better than one, and three is better than two. with 2 we could probably fire up the star drive and fly the city around"
John: Really?
Mckay: No, but still.

I really think, that they should have got more than 1 zpm, got back to Atlantis, landed the city and then used one of the 2 ZPMs to install on the Apollo to increase shields, go back and finish the job.

GATE FOOL
January 24th, 2008, 10:52 PM
I'm gald weir finally got to do something and not just sit around and say good luck on your mission, come back safely. She will b missed though.

John W
June 5th, 2008, 10:22 AM
I thought this was an excellent episode and a neat conclusion to this three-parter.

As I said in my review for "Adrift", I really love seeing Sam Carter and was really happy when I learned she's joined the cast of "Stargate Atlantis" for this season. I was surprised both her and Doctor Lee have had their own seperate role in these two episodes though, although for good reasons. BTW, I smiled when I noticed Sam's still got her SG-1 patch on her jumpsuit. It's also cool that she's now been promoted to a full Colonel. I know she now outranks Sheppard, but as an SG-1 fan too I also wondered if she now outranks Mitchell too. I guess we'll maybe find out in "Stargate: Continuum", assuming he hasn't been promoted too. :):sam:

As a fan of CGI, I thought it was awesome seeing yet more excellent visuals in this episode, from the Asuran city to Atlantis landing and then a new visual of the sky around Atlantis on it's new homeworld.

I was surprised the Apollo doesn't have the upgraded Asgard weaponry yet when it took on the Asuran ship in this episode. I guess maybe it'll get that sometime in the future.

Finally, I come to Weir's departure. I thought she had a great farewell and some really gutsy lines as she single-handedly took on Oberoth in a battle of will-power. I don't know if I'll miss her, especially since I prefer Sam. But she was still a good character and it's been refreshing to see a character who can be strong yet vulnerable at the same time. I recently rewatched "Lost City", in which the character was introduced (albeit with a different actress) and think the character's certainly been on a big journey from that episode to this one.:weir:

Orion25
September 22nd, 2008, 02:02 AM
Great episode. I liked how Weir turned the tables on Oberoth and how it was interpreted in visuals. I really thought the team was captured. There were so many highlights as everyone have mentioned (I'm so far at page 4, will continue reading). I've been wondering, when Sheppard was in the chair room after landing Atlantis, he looked like the effort took so much out of him or was this his show of relief since they've overcome difficult odds? Then, I've seen this same expression/ reaction again when he was in the chair room of an Aurora-class ship in "Travelers". Did he find out that he had some limits when interfacing for longer periods of time with Ancient technology or was he still unnerved by the connection? I wish we can read the actual script. :)

Laura Dove
January 3rd, 2009, 09:16 AM
Andreas just posted 54 promo pics for "Lifeline" (http://andreas-ri.livejournal.com/123311.html)! I absolutely adore the ones with Weir and Oberoth standing in the blue light. Hurry, the entry will remain public for 2 days only. ;)

Automission
February 26th, 2009, 12:55 PM
You know what annoyed me? They turned the cloak into an anti replicator shield. Now, ignoring how improbable this could be, the shield was said to destroy any replicator within it. surely this would have destroyed the nanites within Weirs body, as she was within the shield?

Butlersgate
March 11th, 2009, 09:35 AM
You know what annoyed me? They turned the cloak into an anti replicator shield. Now, ignoring how improbable this could be, the shield was said to destroy any replicator within it. surely this would have destroyed the nanites within Weirs body, as she was within the shield?

hmm that is a fair point, besides the improbability of the anti replicator shield...it's also ridiculous to think that there is a stargate, and also that there are replicators, and oh yeah life sucking aliens.... its sci-fi anything is plausable. and if you go into well Mckay being so in-genius to re-design the ancients amazing puddle jumper's cloak then as he has studied ancient tech for 4 years probably a little more it's very doable.

its a great episode

Automission
March 11th, 2009, 10:34 AM
It may be normal among such severe Sci Fi stories, but to think you can take any sort of field generator and just chuck in a lone crystal will change it's effects.
That's like assuming if I just force some D size Batteries into my Tv remote that it'l change channels quicker, faster and with more precision. Or If I placed a Carrot in there that it'd turn the TV show characters into carrots!

Butlersgate
March 11th, 2009, 10:38 AM
It may be normal among such severe Sci Fi stories, but to think you can take any sort of field generator and just chuck in a lone crystal will change it's effects.
That's like assuming if I just force some D size Batteries into my Tv remote that it'l change channels quicker, faster and with more precision. Or If I placed a Carrot in there that it'd turn the TV show characters into carrots!

i think that is a completely irrelevant comparison, in stargate they have always manged to combine earth and alien technologies after said amount of time.

major davis
May 2nd, 2009, 12:11 PM
Not as good as adrift but still pretty darn good.
8/10

Saquist
December 22nd, 2009, 07:11 AM
Great episode. I liked how Weir turned the tables on Oberoth and how it was interpreted in visuals. I really thought the team was captured. There were so many highlights as everyone have mentioned (I'm so far at page 4, will continue reading). I've been wondering, when Sheppard was in the chair room after landing Atlantis, he looked like the effort took so much out of him or was this his show of relief since they've overcome difficult odds? Then, I've seen this same expression/ reaction again when he was in the chair room of an Aurora-class ship in "Travelers". Did he find out that he had some limits when interfacing for longer periods of time with Ancient technology or was he still unnerved by the connection? I wish we can read the actual script. :)


GOD this was a great episode....

You're so right...so much better than most SCI FI...they really knew what they were doing but then that thing with Tori happen...

I think they were trying to get control of all this but they just couldn't. Seeeder elements fell on them...and there was no return.

TennisMennis
July 30th, 2010, 08:52 PM
Another great episode! Nice swan song for Elizabeth (even though I'm against it and sadened by it). I loved everything about the ep, except for the fact that Carter made it sound like Elizabeth is dead. Bad Carter! Very touching scene at the end, Teyla and Ronon grieving over the loss of Elizabeth.

10/10
Good point....she is NOT dead. Like Sheppherd said, "I'll find her..." I know she didn't want to come back for cameos but I wish she would have. I'm still upset the writers/producers/directors did not involve her more in the show.

mrscopterdoc
September 5th, 2010, 09:24 PM
So sad to see Weir go for good :( But Dr Lee is as funny as ever. :D

maneth
January 28th, 2011, 11:56 AM
Indeed, and I loved the rescue from the replicator planet, especially RepliWeir's part. She really did fool Oberoth!

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 4th, 2012, 04:55 PM
Good episode, slightly better than last week's Premiere. I didn't expect that twist where Weir fooled Oberoth. Next week's episode looks interesting.
I agree with myself.

The shot of Atlantis after it landed (aka the image below) was just beautiful.
http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season4/402-Lifeline/screencaps/normal_atl_402_0958.JPG

Tomorrow, a reunion with that guy from Iron Chef.

Lieutenant Sparrow
September 5th, 2012, 02:50 AM
Pretty good ep.

Sam and Dr Lee are great.

Weir tricked Oberoth very nicely. How does it feel to get a taste of your own medicine.

What was that Ancient/Replicator ship? I didn't have a clue what I was looking at for a while.

Jump in the chair and ease us down. BOOM. Haha.

Matt G
September 6th, 2012, 03:49 PM
Midweek, another ep of Atlantis...

1. The heist still seemed a bit cheap.

2. Sam had a big role for someone who wasn't quite in charge yet.

3. Weir went out in style.

4. Forget his camera, I hope Dr Lee packed his chewing gum...that was 'quite' a landing!

Solid enough ep.

Krisz
September 6th, 2012, 06:38 PM
Once I got over yet another ridiculously easy foray into the city of a supposedly invincible enemy when they got the ZPM, I just sat back and enjoyed the effort to change the Replicator base code to attack the Wraith.

At least Dr Weir had a meaningful exit. I liked the way she used the Replicator side of her to help Atlantis in a great battle of superiority with Oberoth, fooling the smug machine with good old human guile.

It was great to see Sam working with Dr Lee on Midway station and then doing everything to find Atlantis using the Apollo. At this point I found myself missing SG-1, seeing the Milky Way galaxy gate on the Midway station with the Milky Way behind it was a great scene.

Wonderful visual effects with the flying and landing of Atlantis on their new world. Nice image NIWDAbydos, I agree, beautiful. Pretty well built, sturdy city too with that landing!

garhkal
September 7th, 2012, 03:52 PM
It had to be with Shep's landing..!

Though i wonder if they ever named the new planet?

Lythisrose
September 7th, 2012, 04:48 PM
From Joe Mallozzi's blog (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/september-5-2012-philly-cheesesteak-secrets-the-most-heartbreaking-moment-in-stargate-history-results-and-winners-lets-hear-em-days-of-stargate-atlantis-past-lifeline/):

LIFELINE (403)

What I found particularly interesting about this episode was not so much what was going on in front of the camera, or behind the camera, but way over on the other side of the lot beyond the security fence. I’m talking about -
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/120.jpg
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/121.jpg

Yes, this was the year fandom galvanized for the Save Carson Beckett Campaign which culminated in a demonstration outside the Bridge Studios in support of the good (dead) doctor. As far as demonstrations go, it was well-organized, spirited and, ultimately, successful. They DID save Carson Beckett!

http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/122.jpg

As for the episode itself, it was another Carl Binder masterpiece. Carl had wanted to a heist episode for a while and Lifelife offered him the opportunity with the team infiltrating the Asuran homeworld in order to get their hands on a desperately needed ZPM. They succeed, but at a great cost when they are forced to leave Elizabeth behind. Jennifer Keller, meanwhile, cements her position as the new CMO while Samantha Carter takes over command of the Atlantis expedition.Several more photos of the writers/directors.

jelgate
September 9th, 2012, 09:04 PM
The team got greedy. That is ultimately what led to Weir being captured by Obereth and the Asurans. The team could not be satsified with a ZPM. They had to stick it the Asurans and rewrite their base code so that the Asurans would go off and attack the Wraith. If it was not for being greedy none of this would have happened. Don't get me wrong. Its a great episode. But the end result was because McKay got greedy and wanted to the Asurans to fight the Wraith. So thier is a lot of action but at the same time thier is some character elements in watching Weir trick Oberoth so that Shepphed can have time to activate the new command. I was surprised on that trickery and found it unpredictible. What was great about this episode was it was a starting point for so much potential. Thier were so many ways they could have gone with this arc of Weir being in the hands of the Asurans it always disappoints me that nothing really happened because of the TH and TPTB feud

garhkal
September 16th, 2012, 01:25 PM
One wonders though if shep had of had his way and the reps never got messed with, what would have become of the rest of S4 and 5..

jelgate
September 16th, 2012, 04:11 PM
They would never have gotten the ZPM from Asuras and the people on Atlantis would have died from hypoxia

garhkal
September 17th, 2012, 10:10 PM
Why?? It was only cause we stayed around and messed with the code for too long that they got caught.. had they just got in, got the ZPM then left, they would have been imo golden.

jelgate
September 17th, 2012, 10:23 PM
The only reason they got the ZPM in the first place was because of Weir and her nanites

Jae'a
October 10th, 2012, 12:44 PM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/73114.html)
Great episode, but sad about losing Weir..

Alpaca
February 16th, 2013, 11:39 PM
Oh Lord. As Intense as I feared. I was about to get a heart attack or something. For some reason, I didn't feel like this in earlier seasons. Perhaps it's because it's now been quite a while and I've become more attached to the characters. Although not my most favourite character, I felt sad about Dr Weir, but she sure showed Oberoth!

I actually flinched on the landing though. Man, I'm too into this. Some of the earlier seasons I could watch them casually. I'm not sure I can do that any more.

I'm also glad to see Sam Carter again.

Cluas
February 21st, 2013, 09:52 AM
This was great.
Weir fooled Oberon big time. It was nicely made, and I believed for a time, the team was actually captured.

McKay was annoying, much more than usual. Talking and talking, in stead of fixing the damn mess.

Sam and Dr. Lee- Hmm. Not so funny as in SG1 (I thought it was kind of forbidden to bring your own camera off world?)

And for me, the highlight was the awesome landing, that was just so intense. I could almost feel the splash from my chair, when they hit the water ...

The downside, is that one of my fave characters was written out of the show. As if you can just write two main characters out of the show in a couple of episodes, and just move on like nothing happened? I don't even know who is to blame for this?

:weir44:

jelgate
February 21st, 2013, 03:48 PM
No one is to blame. Things just happen to tell different stories

Cluas
February 21st, 2013, 11:15 PM
No one is to blame. Things just happen to tell different stories

Hey
I'm watching season 4 now, and it seems to fit together now...

:sam:

Seaboe Muffinchucker
February 22nd, 2013, 08:21 AM
As if you can just write two main characters out of the show in a couple of episodes, and just move on like nothing happened?

TPTB like to do things like this because it makes the show more 'realistic'; never mind those fans who watch because they like a particular character. I guess that's not the audience they're going after.

Seaboe

jelgate
February 22nd, 2013, 01:00 PM
Fans are a small minority. TV shows will always write for the casual viewers

Seaboe Muffinchucker
February 27th, 2013, 07:43 AM
Like I said, not the audience they're going after.

Seaboe

Snowman37
February 27th, 2013, 08:39 AM
The downside, is that one of my fave characters was written out of the show. As if you can just write two main characters out of the show in a couple of episodes, and just move on like nothing happened? I don't even know who is to blame for this?
Two characters written out in five episodes, but also across two seasons.

Carson Beckett was killed off for shock value, to tell the audience that no one was safe. I already got that when Ford went rogue and went up in flames when the Wraith hive he was on exploded. Whatever. Are you watching this show for the first time? I hate how he was killed off. Exploring tumor, really? I don't mind a character death, but come on... be more creative.

Weir was written out, because the network wanted someone from SG-1 to crossover full time. The writers had been wanting to crossover Carter for at least a year, so this was their chance. Now, she can't share the spotlight with McKay, that's twice the scientist. I believe Torri Higginson (Elizabeth Weir) was the unfortunate victim of the network wanting a crossover and the producers/writers wanting Carter full time. Someone had to go, and Weir was ultimately picked. People say her fate was already decided last season, but was it? She was critically injured, not killed, so she could have easily recovered via ancient tech. and gone back to work. Ultimately, this character had the perfect exit from the show, staying behind enemy lines to save her friends.

Cluas
February 27th, 2013, 04:07 PM
@Snowman: Yes first time watching SGA.. I'm done now by the way... I guess I'm one of the only ones that liked season 4 and 5 lol-

I don't mind character deaths either. But i agree on the tumor. Awful. And Wier was written out 'cos of Carter. I get it. But it seemed wrong to me anyway. Thanks for the explanation, i do know what you mean :)

Snowman37
February 27th, 2013, 04:42 PM
@Snowman: Yes first time watching SGA.. I'm done now by the way... I guess I'm one of the only ones that liked season 4 and 5 lol-
I stopped myself, I didn't want to give away that he came back as a clone. haha What did you think of that and Weir's bizarre returns as a clone and an Asuran replica?


I don't mind character deaths either. But i agree on the tumor. Awful. And Wier was written out 'cos of Carter. I get it. But it seemed wrong to me anyway. Thanks for the explanation, i do know what you mean :)
I didn't mind Weir being written out despite her being my favorite character. If she was going to be around for a few episodes each year, that's fine. However, I didn't like how she was effectively forgotten about after "Be All My Sins Remember'd." We had to wait almost a year for her to be recast and left to drift in space. Come on.

Cluas
February 28th, 2013, 12:27 AM
I think we have to put spoilers on, if we discuss anything after "lifeline" ...

So:
Carson clone was really annoying, and then he finally went to earth. But the writers kept bringing him back. Huh.
And for Wier, she was the lead role for me, and my very favorite of the show. So sad to see her get blasted away. Even though they saved her with nanites, it just seemed wrong. And yes she just drifted away out there. Huh.
It was awful to see those characters leave the show only to come back again one way or the other...
As I said I don't mind character deaths, only the fact they keep coming back

I really think you should edit spoilers in your post :)

Seaboe Muffinchucker
March 1st, 2013, 11:30 AM
I don't they worry much about spoilers since the show's been off the air (new episodes) for almost three years.

Seaboe

j7n
April 30th, 2014, 02:53 AM
This episode was more to my liking than "Adrift". Finally we get to see the Humans recover valuable technology.

I see they are keeping options open for the Weir character. I'd prefer to trade this uncertainty for closure. Perhaps I would rage against the system if the Humans did something more awful to Weir, but then it would be over with. If they "resurrect" Weir again that would somehow make death and jeopardy seem "cheap" to me.

I have difficulty believing that Human ships can repeatedly approach the Replicator planet (the flyby photographers, the Apollo, then the cloaked jumper) and even land on it undetected. The moment when an object drops out of hyperspace near Atlantis, it is always detected. The city also has the "long range" sensors. Granted, the cloak could give some immunity, and long range scanning has only been used on Wraith ships so far. But in the end of this very episode they were able to detect Assuran ships leaving the remote planet and even estimate their course.

Edit: I didn't buy any of McKay's hillarious technobable. Not just that I know what are "packets" and "datastream", but it seemed to serve no goal for McKay to deliberately confuse Sheppard and thus delay their escape.

mrscopterdoc
August 20th, 2014, 07:20 PM
Indeed, and I loved the rescue from the replicator planet, especially RepliWeir's part. She really did fool Oberoth!

That was pretty cool.

garhkal
August 22nd, 2014, 09:02 PM
Well, we know Daniel had the force of mind to override Replicarter, so who knows maybe Weir was as strong as him.

jelgate
August 22nd, 2014, 09:25 PM
Weir was most likely strong enough because of her Nanities.

losernerdfriend
March 30th, 2016, 09:35 PM
First time watch!

This was a great episode! Loved nanite!Weir. She was so awesome. I totally clapped when she played the mind trick on Oberoth. Haha. Who knew she had it in her? I think in terms of send-offs, this was a great last episode for a fantastic character. I'm just hoping since there was no on-screen death, that she'll be back in the future. :)

Also love the new planet Atlantis has settled on. Super pretty with the 2 (I know it's technically 5) moons. Glad they were able to all work together and get things done (finally after part 3).

garhkal
March 30th, 2016, 11:20 PM
First time watch!

This was a great episode! Loved nanite!Weir. She was so awesome. I totally clapped when she played the mind trick on Oberoth. Haha. Who knew she had it in her? I think in terms of send-offs, this was a great last episode for a fantastic character. I'm just hoping since there was no on-screen death, that she'll be back in the future. :)

First time i saw that clip, i was like "mirror image of daniel and repli-carter' and his line "I'm not done yet, time for you to spend a little more time in Danny's world"..

losernerdfriend
March 30th, 2016, 11:39 PM
Yes!!! That's what it reminded me of as well, but I still thought it was wonderful. The replicators seem like such an unbeatable force that anytime someone can gain an advantage over them, I'm super happy. Haha.