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Skydiver
September 16th, 2007, 08:13 AM
This thread is to discuss Weir in Adrift and Lifeline - episodes that some have already seen and that will be broadcast in the US in a couple of weeks.

A few groundrules

The topic is Weir, and it's a discussion thread, so pro and con posts are appropriate here. This is not a singularly pro or anti thread.

The topic is Weir, not Carter. In discussions, some aspects will be on topic, but this will not descend into a Carter vs Weir thread. Please take that elsewhere.

Since spoilers are noted in the title and since this thread will eventually be moved into the episode discussion folder, spoiler space is not needed here, but please remember that it IS needed anywhere outside this thread

Let's have a nice discussion about Weir and the events of Adrift and Lifeline

metabog
September 16th, 2007, 08:17 AM
Let's just say the writers had a really neat way of letting go of Torri Higginson. It wasn't at all senseless like Carson, it was just awesome.

I just hope she will not turn into a Ford-like character.

female Wraith
September 16th, 2007, 08:35 AM
I was surprised by the way they got rid off her. And I didn't like it. As a matter of fact these two episodes were awlful. I don't understand how JM could describe them as something that will become the favourite of the fans! I am a fan and I didn't like them.

I am ok with Weir and nanniets, but to leave her so easy?? They were just a few meters aways when she screamed to Sheppard and Ronon to go. Why Sheppard din't try to resque her? Did only Rodney care about Weir? If it was left to Sheppard's decision she would have died from her injures. Somehow the way Sheppard acted in Adrift - she is better dead, then with naniets and his other action in Lifeline - to leave her - did not cover the image that was built for him in Season 1 - Season 3.

Yea, I know some of those that watched and liked the two episodes will say Weir ordered Sheppard to leave her, but since when he has followed her orders without questions?? I hope the other 2 episodes in which Weir will be to be better than that.

Xeon_1
September 16th, 2007, 08:44 AM
i realy liked the way weir was written to the back ground
It leaves a way for her to return but probley with another agenda
May she and oberoth will rule the asurans together
but the replicators now also know of the gate bridge so it opens up a few interesting story lines

bluealien
September 16th, 2007, 08:48 AM
I was surprised by the way they got rid off her. And I didn't like it. As a matter of fact these two episodes were awlful. I don't understand how JM could describe them as something that will become the favourite of the fans! I am a fan and I didn't like them.

I am ok with Weir and nanniets, but to leave her so easy?? They were just a few meters aways when she screamed to Sheppard and Ronon to go. Why Sheppard din't try to resque her? Did only Rodney care about Weir? If it was left to Sheppard's decision she would have died from her injures. Somehow the way Sheppard acted in Adrift - she is better dead, then with naniets and his other action in Lifeline - to leave her - did not cover the image that was built for him in Season 1 - Season 3.

Yea, I know some of those that watched and liked the two episodes will say Weir ordered Sheppard to leave her, but since when he has followed her orders without questions?? I hope the other 2 episodes in which Weir will be to be better than that.


Sheppard had no choice but to leave her.. She was loosing her control over Oberoth and once she did every replicator would be upon them and they would be captured. How did you expect Sheppard to defend Weir and the others against hundreds of replicators.. also if they were captured then no ZPM and the shields fail and Atlantis plummets to the ground, and everyone is killed. Weir knew this.. and John also, they both acted for the greater good. I think Sheppad did care.. you could see the emotion in his face.. but he did what any good leader would do, and he made a hard decision as he couldn't let his emotions get in the way. Rodney also realised this and carried out Sheps order to stop the signal to the nanites which would of killed her.

All of them realised what they had to do to save Atlantis, and even WEIR herself.

Integrabyte
September 16th, 2007, 08:56 AM
Let's just say the writers had a really neat way of letting go of Torri Higginson. It wasn't at all senseless like Carson, it was just awesome.

I just hope she will not turn into a Ford-like character.


...but was it original? Reckoning anyone? On top of that they ripped off Voyager. TPTB, transformed Weir into SEVEN of NINE and then into Daniel Jackson. It seems that TPTB have no idea how to kill a character. Carson died like Janet, Weir takes the boot like Ford.

ToasterOnFire
September 16th, 2007, 09:13 AM
I was also disappointed with how quickly the team was willing to leave her behind and how superficial their emotions were later. There were some sad faces, but no weeping, no anguish, no rage. It felt flat.

I found it hard to believe that everyone was willing to try the extremely risky attempt at the core, especially with Weir in such a fragile state and with the lack of backup. No one said "This is a stupid idea and way too risky in our state. We need to leave, and if we lost that great opportunity then well, we lost it." It didn't even matter if Weir wanted to try it (and should they have been so willing to listen to her when she was in such a state anyway?)- Shep has the authority to override her in this situation.

~Robert~
September 16th, 2007, 09:46 AM
In my opinion it was the lesser of two evils ... he could have tried to save her but in the end she was ultimatly 2 weak after her encounter with oberoth to escape in good time plus it would have most likly resulted in atlantis bein destroyed. i do believe this was a good way for weirs character to have been taken out of the mix for the time being, leaves many possibilities open :cool:

Pegasus_SGA
September 16th, 2007, 09:47 AM
This thread is to discuss Weir in Adrift and Lifeline - episodes that some have already seen and that will be broadcast in the US in a couple of weeks.

A few groundrules

The topic is Weir, and it's a discussion thread, so pro and con posts are appropriate here. This is not a singularly pro or anti thread.

The topic is Weir, not Carter. In discussions, some aspects will be on topic, but this will not descend into a Carter vs Weir thread. Please take that elsewhere.

Since spoilers are noted in the title and since this thread will eventually be moved into the episode discussion folder, spoiler space is not needed here, but please remember that it IS needed anywhere outside this thread

Let's have a nice discussion about Weir and the events of Adrift and Lifeline

Yeahhhhh. Thanks Sky :D


Let's just say the writers had a really neat way of letting go of Torri Higginson. It wasn't at all senseless like Carson, it was just awesome.

I just hope she will not turn into a Ford-like character.

I really enjoyed this story arc, it allowed TH to stretch her acting skills, provided the fans with something meaty to explore and discuss how they're going to rectify the situation and where Weir will end up? Will she return from the dark side, or plot an offensive against Atlantis? Very intriguing. And if i'm honest, i thought her 'exit' was better than Becketts'.


...but was it original? Reckoning anyone? On top of that they ripped off Voyager. TPTB, transformed Weir into SEVEN of NINE and then into Daniel Jackson. It seems that TPTB have no idea how to kill a character. Carson died like Janet, Weir takes the boot like Ford.

Were we watching the same thing? How was it anything like Reckoning? The 7 of 9 thing, there are similarities, granted, but did you honestly see this coming? As for the killing off of characters, isn't it nice that they get a meaty story arc before their departure? And why would you want them to kill weir off?


I was also disappointed with how quickly the team was willing to leave her behind and how superficial their emotions were later. There were some sad faces, but no weeping, no anguish, no rage. It felt flat.

I found it hard to believe that everyone was willing to try the extremely risky attempt at the core, especially with Weir in such a fragile state and with the lack of backup. No one said "This is a stupid idea and way too risky in our state. We need to leave, and if we lost that great opportunity then well, we lost it." It didn't even matter if Weir wanted to try it (and should they have been so willing to listen to her when she was in such a state anyway?)- Shep has the authority to override her in this situation.

They were severely outnumbered, and sometimes you need to make a hasty retreat to regroup and start again. It's not leaving someone behind, it's making sure that you live long enough to try again.

vaberella
September 16th, 2007, 09:52 AM
They were severely outnumbered, and sometimes you need to make a hasty retreat to regroup and start again. It's not leaving someone behind, it's making sure that you live long enough to try again.

When I had heard about that scene, that's exactly what crossed my mind. We know as of now that if Weir is taken over by nanites they won't killer or anything of that nature...since we have been given nothing to say that the Asurans kill those who are like them. They would most likely reprogram her, but at that point we could have McKay working up on a backdoor method to alter those nanites and sort of bring back the "old Weir" (if we can call her that---at this point her memories as weir are sort of like imbedded memory programs--"undeletable cookies"). At least she still has a chance and it would give the team to organize and then try to rescue her...I also heard the nanite guns stopped working...they were definitely in need of a retreat and attack later.

Again, as stated above at least they can try again. Now if she was taken by the Wraith that would be a different situation entirely. At the moment Weir is not a husk of skin and bone as she would have been if it was the Wraith.

And as was mentioned by BA they were under time constraints with the Ex on Atlantis...that's a good 50+ lives over one. We saw this on TLG and Teyla was going to take John out if McKay didn't come in the nick of time.

Platschu
September 16th, 2007, 10:03 AM
Weir can be a key player by the Asurans, because she has human body and only some nanites in her brain. So we can't call her "real" RepliWeir, because RepliCarter's whole body were created by nanites and only her skin were made by "Reese's technology".

They can cure her easily in a scifi show:

first step - stop the nanites, than here are 3 idea:

1. put her in a sarcophagus - the free Jaffas have to bring one to Atlantis
2. call a Tok'Ra to cure her - they can make her to be a host, so she can play two character in season 5
3. call the Nox to resurrect her - they will ask how could she marry to Narim :D
...

So, please, don't be sad. The writers can find a solution to save her if they want. Never forget, that SG is only a television show and it's not worth to hate each other because of the series. ;)

vaberella
September 16th, 2007, 10:07 AM
I was also disappointed with how quickly the team was willing to leave her behind and how superficial their emotions were later. There were some sad faces, but no weeping, no anguish, no rage. It felt flat.

I found it hard to believe that everyone was willing to try the extremely risky attempt at the core, especially with Weir in such a fragile state and with the lack of backup. No one said "This is a stupid idea and way too risky in our state. We need to leave, and if we lost that great opportunity then well, we lost it." It didn't even matter if Weir wanted to try it (and should they have been so willing to listen to her when she was in such a state anyway?)- Shep has the authority to override her in this situation.

If this is true then I think your line of thinking as what "shep should have done" is very selfish. Wasn't the goal to get to killing the Wraith who are an extremely deadly foe?! Why then if they had the chance they shouldn't take the risk if they might not have a chance later. Again, as I stated in a previous post McKay could always work on a method to reprogram Weir...once they awakened the nanites they were basically in charge of her body since I was told McKay couldn't even turn them off. If McKay couldn't override them at the moment they needed to over-ride them, then Weir was lost to them from that point. She's taken over by those chips. That being said Weir would prove to be a liability to the SGA Ex and Earth because the Asurans would be able to tap into her and use her...the opportunity would definitely be lost all around to them to reprogram the Asurans as wraith killers. All they're tricks would be known because they could again tap into Weir. This was a prime opportunity and they were successful in it and Weir would then be successful in her endeavour and the SGA Ex could rescue her later.

No one is saying it's not risky and I would think the timing off...but if they could pull it off with almost without a hitch then from what I heard this paticular mission was successful. Kavanaugh had listed quite a bit of cons in 38 Minutes that Weir over rode and they were successful...this is a similar situation in the level of danger and riskiness but again successful.

Linzi
September 16th, 2007, 10:13 AM
Thanks Skydiver for opening this thread! Finally somewhere to discuss this storyline! :)

I liked Weir's arc here. What I liked most is that she sacrificed herself to save the team. No doubts, no hesitation. She ordered Sheppard to go and save himself and his team, and he obeyed her order. It was an heroic exit, and not meaningless or random in any way. She went up in my estimation for being so selfless.

I really liked that she beat Oberoth at his own game. I had no idea that the scenario where the team were captured was a creation by Weir in Oberoth's head, and I liked her strength of mind and character here. It was a great twist.

I loved the look of horror on Weir's face when she understood what Rodney had done by re-activating the nanites. She honestly would rather have died, I think. I liked that Sheppard knew that much about her, and didn't want her to have to endure the nanites taking over parts of her body, so she couldn't live if they weren't activated. He knew she'd hate that and she did. Weir didn't want to be a risk and the security and safety of Atlantis was her first priority at all times. That was good to see.

Her capture didn't surprise me, but I was glad she didn't go bad or turn against the team. She looked helpless and over-powered and that was sad to see, but I like that.

ToasterOnFire
September 16th, 2007, 10:20 AM
I really liked that she beat Oberoth at his own game. I had no idea that the scenario where the team were captured was a creation by Weir in Oberoth's head, and I liked her strength of mind and character here. It was a great twist.
That was a great scene indeed. :)

Platschu
September 16th, 2007, 10:26 AM
I liked that Ronon tried to shoot down Oberoth, but they became resist to gun fire too. So they could do nothing for her there.

I liked the Sheppard wanted to transport back Weir with Apollo, so he didn't give up. ;)

We should wait 4x03 to get whole picture about Weir's fate and Carter's "real" arriving.

Pegasus_SGA
September 16th, 2007, 10:34 AM
When I had heard about that scene, that's exactly what crossed my mind. We know as of now that if Weir is taken over by nanites they won't killer or anything of that nature...since we have been given nothing to say that the Asurans kill those who are like them. They would most likely reprogram her, but at that point we could have McKay working up on a backdoor method to alter those nanites and sort of bring back the "old Weir" (if we can call her that---at this point her memories as weir are sort of like imbedded memory programs--"undeletable cookies"). At least she still has a chance and it would give the team to organize and then try to rescue her...I also heard the nanite guns stopped working...they were definitely in need of a retreat and attack later.

She's too valuable to them to kill her. All along i've wondered why they see them (Atlantis) as such a threat, and so for me, this gives the writers a chance to explore that. The only thing I'm concerned with is that with her being joined into the collective (maybe) they would have access to all her memories of Earth etc, and can become an even bigger problem than the Wraith. it's not so much a concern about an ep, more what they're going to do with that information. Maybe behind the scenes we'll see Rodney working on the 'kill switch' to find out what went wrong. It's possible that given the time frame they were able to override the switch. Hopefully Rodney as you said put in a back door, and we'll see the fruits of his labour.

But, for me, the team had no alternative but to retreat. Outgunned, out manned and against a ticking clock. It wouldn't have been a wise move to try any attempts at rescue. They had the ZPM at their disposal, Atlantis was hours away from disaster and that was their priority.


Thanks Skydiver for opening this thread! Finally somewhere to discuss this storyline! :)

I liked Weir's arc here. What I liked most is that she sacrificed herself to save the team. No doubts, no hesitation. She ordered Sheppard to go and save himself and his team, and he obeyed her order. It was an heroic exit, and not meaningless or random in any way. She went up in my estimation for being so selfless.

I really liked that she beat Oberoth at his own game. I had no idea that the scenario where the team were captured was a creation by Weir in Oberoth's head, and I liked her strength of mind and character here. It was a great twist.

I loved the look of horror on Weir's face when she understood what Rodney had done by re-activating the nanites. She honestly would rather have died, I think. I liked that Sheppard knew that much about her, and didn't want her to have to endure the nanites taking over parts of her body, so she couldn't live if they weren't activated. He knew she'd hate that and she did. Weir didn't want to be a risk and the security and safety of Atlantis was her first priority at all times. That was good to see.

Her capture didn't surprise me, but I was glad she didn't go bad or turn against the team. She looked helpless and over-powered and that was sad to see, but I like that.

Great points. I agree, there were so many things about this ep that I loved and got me very excited to see where they go from here. That for me what you've mentioned is a pivitol point, Weir sacrificing herself for her people shows how far she would go for her team. That's one thing we haven't seen so far in SGA, just how far she would go to make sure her people live. To me it made her character that much more interesting. The whole Oberon scene surprised me and was a great plot twist. I do wonder if she will be integrated or they'll just use her to gai information about her team, their strategy's, Earth etc. And that ep for me has opened a whole realm of possibilities.

What made it for me was the sheer desperation of the team and her situation, it was very touching. And the Ronon scene, and Shep's look made me grab the tissues. :o

Oka
September 16th, 2007, 10:34 AM
Wow, Weir was useful for once. I was honestly surprised that she played that big of a role in these episodes (especially the 2nd one). I guess the writers wanted to give her the goodbye she really deserved (?)

I just wish they would've killed her off completely OR completely cured her from the nanites. I didn't like the whole human-replicator hybrid thing because it is too much like what happened with Ford. Also, this means that we're going to get even more replicator episodes in the future which I'm not liking.

But as we know, characters never REALLY die on Stargate.

And, yes I did chuckle when they shaved her hair off (sue me), of course it wasn't permanent (curse you reset button).

Even though Weir has never been my favorite character I was still kind of sad to see her go. I mean she's been in SGA from the beginning so in that way I do respect her.

Integrabyte
September 16th, 2007, 10:52 AM
Were we watching the same thing? How was it anything like Reckoning? The 7 of 9 thing, there are similarities, granted, but did you honestly see this coming? As for the killing off of characters, isn't it nice that they get a meaty story arc before their departure? And why would you want them to kill weir off?

I might be wrong with the episode title, but didn't Daniel Jackson do the same thing Weir did? Daniel controls and freezes the replicators so our good guys can do their job, Weir controls and freezes the replicators so ,once again, our good guys can finish the job.

Linzi
September 16th, 2007, 11:01 AM
I liked that Ronon tried to shoot down Oberoth, but they became resist to gun fire too. So they could do nothing for her there.

I liked the Sheppard wanted to transport back Weir with Apollo, so he didn't give up. ;)

We should wait 4x03 to get whole picture about Weir's fate and Carter's "real" arriving.
Agreed. There may be no mention in Reunion, but I think there will be in that or Doppelganger. We also don't know which is Weir's 3rd episode. We know her fourth, but not her third.

She's too valuable to them to kill her. All along i've wondered why they see them (Atlantis) as such a threat, and so for me, this gives the writers a chance to explore that. The only thing I'm concerned with is that with her being joined into the collective (maybe) they would have access to all her memories of Earth etc, and can become an even bigger problem than the Wraith. it's not so much a concern about an ep, more what they're going to do with that information. Maybe behind the scenes we'll see Rodney working on the 'kill switch' to find out what went wrong. It's possible that given the time frame they were able to override the switch. Hopefully Rodney as you said put in a back door, and we'll see the fruits of his labour.

But, for me, the team had no alternative but to retreat. Outgunned, out manned and against a ticking clock. It wouldn't have been a wise move to try any attempts at rescue. They had the ZPM at their disposal, Atlantis was hours away from disaster and that was their priority.



Great points. I agree, there were so many things about this ep that I loved and got me very excited to see where they go from here. That for me what you've mentioned is a pivitol point, Weir sacrificing herself for her people shows how far she would go for her team. That's one thing we haven't seen so far in SGA, just how far she would go to make sure her people live. To me it made her character that much more interesting. The whole Oberon scene surprised me and was a great plot twist. I do wonder if she will be integrated or they'll just use her to gai information about her team, their strategy's, Earth etc. And that ep for me has opened a whole realm of possibilities.

What made it for me was the sheer desperation of the team and her situation, it was very touching. And the Ronon scene, and Shep's look made me grab the tissues. :o

I've never seen how far Weir would go for the team and expedition before either. We all know about Shep, Ronon et al. But Weir? Nope. I liked that she cares so passionately about them all. It's all well and good thinking that she does, but actually seeing it first hand was great! It did give Weir new depths, I agree :)

the dancer of spaz
September 16th, 2007, 12:06 PM
I thought it was fine. I didn't expect the other characters to freak out or sob over Weir's demise, because they've been at this job for going on four years. They're definitely used to loss and pain and death. This is nothing new, and they're accustomed to having to move on.

As long as they continue to mention her in eps where Weir is not featured, I'll be OK. If the characters continue to show that they care about her even when she's not in the episode, it'll show that that they haven't forgotten about her.

The eps felt rushed in many ways - a lot of info shoved in 42 minutes a piece. But they were still good.

Sheppard, McKay, Ronon and Teyla all expressed their concern for Liz's well-being, her safety and state of mind. They each had moments with her amongst all of the action, and I'm glad they took the time. That moment between Teyla and Ronon at the end of Lifeline was very poignant, as was Sheppard's affirmation at the end.

Rodney showed his concern throughout the whole episode, and I'm glad the actors and writers pulled it off without it seeming OTT. If the characters had allowed their feelings for Weir to distract them from the purpose of their mission, it would've be unrealistic. These are professionals who know what they're doing and who can get the job done beyond their personal feelings. At the same time, they're not giving up hope.

I think was handled well. But, as others have said, Reunion and Doppelganger will be the real tests.

Falcon Horus
September 16th, 2007, 12:36 PM
So, please, don't be sad. The writers can find a solution to save her if they want. Never forget, that SG is only a television show and it's not worth to hate each other because of the series. ;)

The big question here however is -> Are they willing to bring her back for more?


Her capture didn't surprise me, but I was glad she didn't go bad or turn against the team. She looked helpless and over-powered and that was sad to see, but I like that.

Probably something we have yet to see. -speculation- But since TPTB used Ford as a reference, I take it evilness isn't that far off.


As long as they continue to mention her in eps where Weir is not featured, I'll be OK. If the characters continue to show that they care about her even when she's not in the episode, it'll show that that they haven't forgotten about her.

Plot-driven, not character-driven -> Which basicaly means they won't even mention her. -speculation- I suppose they will, but as soon as episode 4 has passed, so has she.

*******

I loved the little scenes between the actors... Teyla/Liz-moments have definitely let loose some of my more rabid plotbunnies. The scene at the end of Lifeline between Ronon and Teyla was nice. It was nice to see the latter cleaning out Elizabeth's office. At least it shows there was friendship and respect, albeit we as viewers had to insert all that bonding off-screen or in fanfic.

Adrift was a very boring episode. Have nothing to say about it.
Lifeline had only one "Didn't see that one coming moment" and that was when Elizabeth tricked Oberoth. See Sheppard morph in Elizabeth was weird.

Linzi
September 16th, 2007, 12:43 PM
See Sheppard morph in Elizabeth was weird.

Yes, I'd agree. That was really weird. :)

Falcon Horus
September 16th, 2007, 12:51 PM
Yes, I'd agree. That was really weird. :)

I actually jumped back a little. I was literally pressed against the screen of my laptop. :p

Linzi
September 16th, 2007, 12:54 PM
I actually jumped back a little. I was literally pressed against the screen of my laptop. :p
I jumped too! It took me by surprise, but also seeing Shep as a girl and Weir as a man was totally strange! :lol:

Ltcolshepjumper
September 16th, 2007, 12:59 PM
That was an interesting twist with her tricking Oberoth. I didn't realize it until she started to morph from Sheppard to herself. I like the twist they did on her leaving. I'm glad it wasn't just her dying or getting replaced. The idea behind it is also interesting. I do hope that they use the opportunity and not throw it all away after her fourth episode, like they did with Ford, who also had four episodes as recurring.

prion
September 16th, 2007, 02:29 PM
I liked that Ronon tried to shoot down Oberoth, but they became resist to gun fire too. So they could do nothing for her there.

I liked the Sheppard wanted to transport back Weir with Apollo, so he didn't give up. ;)

We should wait 4x03 to get whole picture about Weir's fate and Carter's "real" arriving.


Hmm, more like 4x04, 4x10.... I do, however, get the feeling they will 'pull a Ford' and Weir will vanish after her last appearance. Out of sight out of mind, y'know?

Platschu
September 16th, 2007, 02:34 PM
Yeah, the "we will find her, if she lives" sentence is very similar to Ford. :S

I haven't said she will be in 4x03. I think she will appear in 4x10-4x11. ;)

Falcon Horus
September 16th, 2007, 02:37 PM
Yeah, the "we will find her, if she lives" sentence is very similar to Ford. :S

TPTB's wouldn't have referenced her situation to Ford if they weren't planning on doing the exact same stunt.


I haven't said she will be in 4x03. I think she will appear in 4x10-4x11. ;)

Which contradicts what JM said about Weir only being in the first half of the season, and 411 is the second half.

prion
September 16th, 2007, 02:57 PM
TPTB's wouldn't have referenced her situation to Ford if they weren't planning on doing the exact same stunt.

Which contradicts what JM said about Weir only being in the first half of the season, and 411 is the second half.

TPTB are stuck with the problem of they can't kill Weir. SciFi producers have learned that permanently killing a regular is bad. Fans don't like it. Nope, not at all. Leaving a character in limbo/flux/whatever gives the illusion you can always bring 'em back (sort of like Beckett, although I have no idea how they'll bring him back in a realistic manner). Seeing as how TPTB felt the need to get rid of Weir (I can't recall the exact quote), I don't see her coming back fulltime and we'll be lucky if we see her in season five, if there is one.

Falcon Horus
September 16th, 2007, 02:59 PM
TPTB are stuck with the problem of they can't kill Weir. SciFi producers have learned that permanently killing a regular is bad. Fans don't like it. Nope, not at all. Leaving a character in limbo/flux/whatever gives the illusion you can always bring 'em back (sort of like Beckett, although I have no idea how they'll bring him back in a realistic manner). Seeing as how TPTB felt the need to get rid of Weir (I can't recall the exact quote), I don't see her coming back fulltime and we'll be lucky if we see her in season five, if there is one.

Personally I hate it more when they leave a character of which they don't have the intention of keeping them around, hanging in limbo, then that they would just kill it and be done with it.

That illusion burst a long time ago.

Steve_the_Wraith
September 16th, 2007, 03:02 PM
TPTB's wouldn't have referenced her situation to Ford if they weren't planning on doing the exact same stunt.

Ford's situation wasn't a stunt, it was a backdoor they could use to bring back the character if they wanted, so far it seems they don't want to



Which contradicts what JM said about Weir only being in the first half of the season, and 411 is the second half.
Mallozzi has always been very vague about what episodes Weir has been in, he's never definitively stated what episodes she is in, as far as I know

But from Mallozzi's point of view episode 11 is in the first part, since episode 10 and 11 were filmed together...

Falcon Horus
September 16th, 2007, 03:12 PM
Ford's situation wasn't a stunt, it was a backdoor they could use to bring back the character if they wanted, so far it seems they don't want to

Which means the backdoor is locked. :p


But from Mallozzi's point of view episode 11 is in the first part, since episode 10 and 11 were filmed together...

Mmmm...then it is possible. I rest my case.

sparkygate
September 16th, 2007, 03:13 PM
Seriously i thought it was nice and neat how they got rid of weir... how they got rid of weir was pretty cool too
i do have to agree with some you guys how the emotion was running a bit thin in the end... i mean they werent even crying and weeping about the loss of weir...

Cant wait UNTIL the actually one is released... man the Asurans ship is pretty cool
check them out!

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9370/vlcsnap4800535pn0.png

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Falcon Horus
September 16th, 2007, 03:19 PM
Is it just me, or does that ship look like a pen? :S

s09119
September 16th, 2007, 03:36 PM
Is it just me, or does that ship look like a pen? :S

Haha, I was just thinking that. And the front end looks kinda... dumb, to be honest. I thought it was a deformed jumper at first brush.

PG15
September 16th, 2007, 03:54 PM
Which contradicts what JM said about Weir only being in the first half of the season, and 411 is the second half.

Not true. JM said that she is in 4 episodes in the first half, and that's far as it goes. He has purposely avoided answering 1). which 4 episodes they are (although we already know 3), and 2). what's happening to Weir in the second half. Of those questions we have NO answers.

p-pos
September 16th, 2007, 05:59 PM
i have to agree with what most here has already stated it was a good send off and left the door open for her to return and with an interesting arc. it also gave me a new appreciation for the character that i didn't have before.

i also think the emotions were running high and just enough crying would have been out of place and out of character. these people have seen death come for too many and too often to break down in tears especially ronon and teyla.

Mitchell82
September 16th, 2007, 06:20 PM
Not true. JM said that she is in 4 episodes in the first half, and that's far as it goes. He has purposely avoided answering 1). which 4 episodes they are (although we already know 3), and 2). what's happening to Weir in the second half. Of those questions we have NO answers.

Exactly which means she could return. Mabey will get this episode "Stargate Atlantis: Revenge of the Weirs".;)

PG15
September 16th, 2007, 09:07 PM
Mabey will get this episode "Stargate Atlantis: Revenge of the Weirs".;)

Actually, I think we're getting that right here, right now. ;)

xfkirsten
September 16th, 2007, 10:03 PM
Let me just say that I absolutely loved this storyline. This is the kind of story that I would have killed to see for Weir in the past. The part that's so frustrating is knowing that we're really not going to see much of it at all. Why is it that they finally prove they can do something cool with Weir as they shove her out the door? :(

Linzi
September 17th, 2007, 01:38 AM
Let me just say that I absolutely loved this storyline. This is the kind of story that I would have killed to see for Weir in the past. The part that's so frustrating is knowing that we're really not going to see much of it at all. Why is it that they finally prove they can do something cool with Weir as they shove her out the door? :(
I think this storyline for Weir has to mean she won't be around as much. If Rodney found a way to deactivate the nanites and get Weir healed, then she'd be back to the same charaacter as before, and clearly, for whatever reason TPTB had, they didn't want that, which is why Weir has been reduced in the first place, I suppose. She couldn't be in charge of Atlantis in her current state, or even be a member of the team because the IOA would deem her a security risk. I think as a recurring character, there is the potential for Torri to get her teeth into some great stuff, while also having a good arc running through the series. I do see your frustration though and sympathise :)

freetoken
September 17th, 2007, 03:18 AM
IMO, the first two episodes have some of Tori's best work in the series.

Never was a big fan of the character, or of Tori's interpretation of her, but the first two episode arc are as much about her as anything.

prion
September 17th, 2007, 06:16 AM
Let me just say that I absolutely loved this storyline. This is the kind of story that I would have killed to see for Weir in the past. The part that's so frustrating is knowing that we're really not going to see much of it at all. Why is it that they finally prove they can do something cool with Weir as they shove her out the door? :(

Ah, that question begs an answer, one we'll never get :(

metabog
September 17th, 2007, 10:27 AM
Ah, that question begs an answer, one we'll never get :(

She'll be more interesting as a recurring character with a back-story than a regular character that does nothing but say good luck to people leaving through the Stargate.

Integrabyte
September 17th, 2007, 11:30 AM
She'll be more interesting as a recurring character with a back-story than a regular character that does nothing but say good luck to people leaving through the Stargate.


Weir is not the momma any more and that is a good sign. Too bad they gave her a good part now when she got the boot :(.

metabog
September 17th, 2007, 11:32 AM
Weir is not the momma any more and that is a good sign. Too bad they gave her a good part now when she got the boot :(.

She'll be back!

Mitchell82
September 17th, 2007, 12:08 PM
She has four episodes. That's it.. All this "Oh, she'll be back" business is wishful thinking.

I highly doubt she'll ever be back on the show after her four episodes.

Brad Wright originally said she'd be back "for some time" in a recurring role. That "some time" seem to add up to four episodes, which sucks, because Weir is a way more interesting character than certain others.

Actually you are half right. All we know is she is in four of the first half we have no idea if she will be in any of the others. JM refuses to say. As to the wishfull thinking mabey but she might stay on as a recurring character. Only time will tell.

metabog
September 17th, 2007, 12:09 PM
She has four episodes. That's it.. All this "Oh, she'll be back" business is wishful thinking.

I highly doubt she'll ever be back on the show after her four episodes.

Brad Wright originally said she'd be back "for some time" in a recurring role. That "some time" seem to add up to four episodes, which sucks, because Weir is a way more interesting character than certain others.

I wonder if she will die in the end.

Let's think back to when she first appeared on the show :D she was the blonde politician who couldn't believe it when she was told there was a Stargate program. Eventually, she led her own Stargate program, and 3 years later became part Replicator, and then disappeared indefinately.

I think on the course of 3 seasons she had adequate evolution. More than Teyla anyway. :S

borgprincess
September 18th, 2007, 05:32 AM
I wonder if she will die in the end.

Let's think back to when she first appeared on the show :D she was the blonde politician who couldn't believe it when she was told there was a Stargate program. Eventually, she led her own Stargate program, and 3 years later became part Replicator, and then disappeared indefinately.

I think on the course of 3 seasons she had adequate evolution. More than Teyla anyway. :S

But you know, the writers were saying it was cool to bring Carter over because she was an established character- ten seasons worth of development, yet she gets heaps of opportunities to continue in SGA and the movies. So while I get your point about evolution [and when you timeline her like that- whoa!], it seems unfair that this is all she gets.

And you've said what I go on about: the lack of Teyla development! She's the one out in the field and yet I noticed Weir more in her 'sitting in the office/angsting in the gate room' scenes. Then comes Adrift, where Weir's in a coma for all but two minutes, yet I STILL remember her few lines more clearly than anything else Teyla did. And same with Lifeline, where Weir's out in the field, doing her thing- compare her mission role with Teyla's three years worth of missions and they are on such uneven playing fields in terms of character depth and visibility [to me, anyway, I get that my slight obsession might obscure my vision, lol].

I just think it's ironic that the writers really start cranking out the good stuff and splurging their talent on a character they're writing out anyway.

prion
September 18th, 2007, 08:00 AM
My feeling is that after Weir puts in her four appearances, she'll be history. I don't *think* they'll kill her, but with TPTB's track record, who knows? She might get displaced... just lost somewhere, not on Atlantis, perhaps not wanting to return as the OIA or IOA or whoever will go "danger will robinson danger, she's got nannites in her" and will always consider her a risk. I could accept that better than just 'out of sight out of mind' or blowing her up (again).

Weir was good in both "Adrift" and "LIfeline" and I always wonder why the writers can do great exits for characters, but for the life of them can't decently write the characters for the rest of the season...

Pegasus_SGA
September 18th, 2007, 08:09 AM
But you know, the writers were saying it was cool to bring Carter over because she was an established character- ten seasons worth of development, yet she gets heaps of opportunities to continue in SGA and the movies. So while I get your point about evolution [and when you timeline her like that- whoa!], it seems unfair that this is all she gets.

And you've said what I go on about: the lack of Teyla development! She's the one out in the field and yet I noticed Weir more in her 'sitting in the office/angsting in the gate room' scenes. Then comes Adrift, where Weir's in a coma for all but two minutes, yet I STILL remember her few lines more clearly than anything else Teyla did. And same with Lifeline, where Weir's out in the field, doing her thing- compare her mission role with Teyla's three years worth of missions and they are on such uneven playing fields in terms of character depth and visibility [to me, anyway, I get that my slight obsession might obscure my vision, lol].

I just think it's ironic that the writers really start cranking out the good stuff and splurging their talent on a character they're writing out anyway.

But if the writers hadn't utilised Weir's screen time effectively, no doubt that they'd get slammed for it somewhere down the line, saying that this was her opportunity to shine, this was her storyline, but she wasn't used. It's a double edged sword sometimes. I agree with you about Teyla though, i'm hoping that this will be rectified and from the bits of seen, she will have a bigger arc and storyline. I do miss the Teyla of season 1 where her screen time was more balanced and am hoping that in S4 we'll get to see that back.

I understand your feelings on the irony, although I don't share them. Weir's primary role has been diplomat/guardian/gatekeeper of Atlantis, so her 'role' primarily from my stand point was never going to be up front and center. It wasn't that way in SG1, so for me her role in SGA was how it should be. With that said, the few times she's gone off world, it's created a nice little Arc for her.

The Asuran storyline is something I didn't see coming and it's been a nice continuity arc for her character. This storyline will effectively open the door for lots more stories, some may focus on their search for Elizabeth others, not so much. But what I loved about this episode is to see how far she would go for the team, how cleverly she utilised the nanites and gained control of the city when she needed to save her team. I liked the fact that she pushed aside her own mortality in favour of doing what's right. When she told Sheppard to kill her when/if it became necessary, she had no doubts, no hesitations and she knew the team would comply. I do wonder if the 'kill switch' will be used from a distance (if it hasn't been reprogrammed) and I like the idea that we don't know what the Asurans are going to use her form. So when she next shows up, will she be traumatised? Will she be integrated into the 'collective'. Will she be the leader of the commuity? Is she going to be the next main enemy, and how the team will deal with those issues interests me.

DarkSullivan
September 18th, 2007, 09:12 AM
I was surprised by the way they got rid off her. And I didn't like it. As a matter of fact these two episodes were awlful. I don't understand how JM could describe them as something that will become the favourite of the fans! I am a fan and I didn't like them.

I am ok with Weir and nanniets, but to leave her so easy?? They were just a few meters aways when she screamed to Sheppard and Ronon to go. Why Sheppard din't try to resque her? Did only Rodney care about Weir? If it was left to Sheppard's decision she would have died from her injures. Somehow the way Sheppard acted in Adrift - she is better dead, then with naniets and his other action in Lifeline - to leave her - did not cover the image that was built for him in Season 1 - Season 3.

Yea, I know some of those that watched and liked the two episodes will say Weir ordered Sheppard to leave her, but since when he has followed her orders without questions?? I hope the other 2 episodes in which Weir will be to be better than that.That was a self less act on his part.

bluealien
September 18th, 2007, 09:15 AM
But you know, the writers were saying it was cool to bring Carter over because she was an established character- ten seasons worth of development, yet she gets heaps of opportunities to continue in SGA and the movies. So while I get your point about evolution [and when you timeline her like that- whoa!], it seems unfair that this is all she gets.

And you've said what I go on about: the lack of Teyla development! She's the one out in the field and yet I noticed Weir more in her 'sitting in the office/angsting in the gate room' scenes. Then comes Adrift, where Weir's in a coma for all but two minutes, yet I STILL remember her few lines more clearly than anything else Teyla did. And same with Lifeline, where Weir's out in the field, doing her thing- compare her mission role with Teyla's three years worth of missions and they are on such uneven playing fields in terms of character depth and visibility [to me, anyway, I get that my slight obsession might obscure my vision, lol].

Well I think opinions will vary a lot as to who thought which character was the most interesting and who left the most impression, so lets not go there and stick to the topic at hand. The writers decided to write Weir out of the show and I think they did a fairly good job of it. Weir finally had some purpose and her presence made a difference and it was interesting to see. But I don't think this storyline could be kept up through the whole of season four, so again it would be difficult to give her a purpose to remain full time on the show. But it has made it possible for Weir to be recurring and only time will tell as to how often she returns to the show.




I just think it's ironic that the writers really start cranking out the good stuff and splurging their talent on a character they're writing out anyway.

Weir was given plenty of opportunity to shine... whole ep dedicated to her in TRW so I don't think it's the first time she has been given good stuff .. but she still never drew me in. At the end of the day tptb decided that she didn't fit into the direction they were taking the show but at least they gave her a great send off.

the dancer of spaz
September 18th, 2007, 09:22 AM
I agree that Weir had at lease one ep each season that was dedicated to her. And that's all well and good, considering they're so hard to come by when the focus is on Sheppard and McKay a majority of the time.

That said, I think we got to see more about Sheppard and McKay's integrity, weaknesses and foibles without having to have an episode dedicated to them. That's mainly because they're seen in action all the time.

Instead of having a handful of eps that focused on Weir, it would've been good to see some more depth in the action episodes where she had to make tough decisions. TH mentioned more than once I believe that there were some decisions Weir made that would have greatly affected her - yet I don't think they touched on those.

These two eps showcased more of TH's talent and Weir's actual character than many of the other episodes. I'm glad it worked out that way, and I hope she plays an integral part in the midseason two-parters.

xfkirsten
September 18th, 2007, 12:25 PM
I think this storyline for Weir has to mean she won't be around as much. If Rodney found a way to deactivate the nanites and get Weir healed, then she'd be back to the same charaacter as before, and clearly, for whatever reason TPTB had, they didn't want that, which is why Weir has been reduced in the first place, I suppose. She couldn't be in charge of Atlantis in her current state, or even be a member of the team because the IOA would deem her a security risk. I think as a recurring character, there is the potential for Torri to get her teeth into some great stuff, while also having a good arc running through the series. I do see your frustration though and sympathise :)

I can understand that, definitely, and you're right about her not being able to be a part of Atlantis in that state. Although a part of me feels like it's not all that different than Teyla's situation with the Wraith, except for the fact that Weir can communicate with the Asurans over large distances. And I think that she could be a strong asset to the team. She proved that she can help them out big time with the use of her abilities - so long as she could find a way to avoid the Asurans digging into her mind. Unfortunately, you're all too right about the IOA... although I've hated them since day one anyways, so they can take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned. ;)

I guess I was speaking more generally. The point I was trying to make is that they had the ability to think up great ways to get her more involved... but never really did so until the end. :(

Pitry
September 18th, 2007, 01:15 PM
IMO, the first two episodes have some of Tori's best work in the series.

Never was a big fan of the character, or of Tori's interpretation of her, but the first two episode arc are as much about her as anything.

Really? I thought the two episode had some of the weakest acting on all involved parties' part that I've ever seen in the show.


I think this storyline for Weir has to mean she won't be around as much. If Rodney found a way to deactivate the nanites and get Weir healed, then she'd be back to the same charaacter as before, and clearly, for whatever reason TPTB had, they didn't want that, which is why Weir has been reduced in the first place, I suppose. She couldn't be in charge of Atlantis in her current state, or even be a member of the team because the IOA would deem her a security risk. I think as a recurring character, there is the potential for Torri to get her teeth into some great stuff, while also having a good arc running through the series. I do see your frustration though and sympathise :)

They could have reduced her role in a way that a) wasn't a complete copy of what they've done with Ford and therefore would have benefited some originality, and b) had a bit more of risk taking story-wise. This way, tehy're getting rid of a problem. They want to reduce TH's part to recurring - and by recurring, I mean occasionaly guest starring - and they do it by finding a way for a character that doesn't want to go anywhere to have to go without killing her. I mean, come on. They could have reduced the character by, I dunno, causing limited brain damage that would make her unable to function as base leader but still useful enough to keep around in Atlantis, that way you get both the opportunity to bring in a new leader and reduce TH to recurring and give her enough substential storyline, an abiloty to see her every once in a while and a real challenge to both her acting abilioties and their writing skills. Or I'm sure there are 1001 other possibilities they could have used. They went for safe and boring, and mainly safe, because now they can forget Weir the same way they forgot Ford.

furiousfurling
September 18th, 2007, 05:09 PM
ok if you watched the previews, theres something about Weir and the nanites

so am i to understand that Weir becomes the Bionic Woman now???

i know they said they were going to do a remake of that show

also the new planet is cool, i didnt think i would like it but i like the really alien look to it and plus i hope the wraith in this region of space are vastly different to the ones over by the original planet, because they were very warrior like and perhaps these wraith out here could be more treacherous and weird, like some sort of HILL BILLY wraith

any thoughts
please comment

~Robert~
September 18th, 2007, 05:25 PM
Well i don't think anyone can disagree with you there , shes officially part Repli ... and apparently can do all they can and better

As for the new planet i also thought it was pretty cool loved that last seen with the moon(s) was pretty cool and the sortive green sky.

as for your hill billy wraith ...... seems very far out there but then again this is stargate so i wouldn't put it past them.

freetoken
September 19th, 2007, 12:18 AM
Really? I thought the two episode had some of the weakest acting on all involved parties' part that I've ever seen in the show.



Yes, really. More believable on the Weir character (not so sure about the others, but at least for Weir.) Too often the acting on SGA is, to me, a bit over the top (=trying to hard.) Commonly in past episodes (and one of by beefs with SGA) the charcters are too snarky, too... whatever, they are trying to be too much. Real life is usually more laid back, subtle, and suggestive and not demonstrative. That is what I got from Tori in the first two episodes here... more reality. Perhaps because in real life her role on the show is disappearing, the emotions from that spilled over into the character's imminent demise...

So, cheers for Tori...

One note... be careful of being influenced by lack of music and sound effects in the review copies. It makes the whole viewing experience a little less prone to the adrenaline rush. You may have more of an emotive experience when you watch the final version.



<snip> They could have reduced the character by, I dunno, causing limited brain damage that would make her unable to function as base leader but still useful enough to keep around in Atlantis, that way you get both the opportunity to bring in a new leader and reduce TH to recurring and give her enough substential storyline, an abiloty to see her every once in a while and a real challenge to both her acting abilioties and their writing skills.

That sounds like it would be very difficult to do in a show like SGA. Since SGA tends to be an action heavy fantasy/SciFi show with a target audience that is probably not honed for long, possibly introspective, melodrama your idea probably wouldn't be so popular with the ratings. Even on SG-1, the writers had to lighten the burden of Janet's death by having her keep coming back via alternate realities, and also in lightening Daniels radiation sickness with his "ascension." If they had made Weir a vegetable (or near one) and kept her that way it would probably be too heavy a dose of reality for the show's life. Even if they had merely made her slightly mentally damage that would have been too much. After all, how many (permanently) handicapped characters have we seen on SGA/SG-1 before? These are shows portraying healthy and often beautiful people, not hard doses of reality.

Linzi
September 19th, 2007, 12:39 AM
Really? I thought the two episode had some of the weakest acting on all involved parties' part that I've ever seen in the show.



Really? I thought the acting from everyone was absolutely wonderful. Some of the best acting I've seen on the show, in fact. Certainly in terms of emotional expression, frustration, anger, bravery and deep friendship.



They could have reduced her role in a way that a) wasn't a complete copy of what they've done with Ford and therefore would have benefited some originality, and b) had a bit more of risk taking story-wise. This way, tehy're getting rid of a problem. They want to reduce TH's part to recurring - and by recurring, I mean occasionaly guest starring - and they do it by finding a way for a character that doesn't want to go anywhere to have to go without killing her. I mean, come on. They could have reduced the character by, I dunno, causing limited brain damage that would make her unable to function as base leader but still useful enough to keep around in Atlantis, that way you get both the opportunity to bring in a new leader and reduce TH to recurring and give her enough substential storyline, an abiloty to see her every once in a while and a real challenge to both her acting abilioties and their writing skills. Or I'm sure there are 1001 other possibilities they could have used. They went for safe and boring, and mainly safe, because now they can forget Weir the same way they forgot Ford.

I'm sorry, but I absolutely don't want to see a brain-damaged Weir. That would be absolutely awful for the character, in my opinion:( No way, would a person with brain damage we allowed to stay on a high risk expedition like Atlantis. Not just that, significant brain injury takes months of specialist care to overcome. People who've had brain surgery are on anti-epileptic drugs for a long time afterwards for starters, which cause problems in themselves. That's just one example of why that wouldn't work. Would I want to see an arc for Weir where we see her battle with her disability? Absolutely not. Atlantis isn't ER or a drama show of that sort.

I don't actually think so far, Weir's storyline is like Ford's per se. Though, of course, we haven't seen TMC yet.

Weir was a prisoner of war when we last saw her, Ford ran off hyped up on enzyme, having being altered personality wise by that powerful drug. He went rogue. So far that hasn't happened to Weir. Her story was heroic and self-sacrificing. She sacrificed herself to save the team and Atlantis knowing what it would mean for her. So, as far as I'm concerned the two storylines, as yet, aren't even similar, other than they're both 'out there' somewhere and not on Atlantis.

I have no problem saying Weir has never been my favourite character as leader of Atlantis, but I really liked her part in Lifeline, particularly. I felt sad at her situation, and admired her courage, and I have never felt that way about her before. If this storyline means when she comes back that she plays a similar role, evoking heartache and pain for the team as well as being the instigator of a good story, then I'll be happy. I'm actually now in the position of finding myself looking forward to seeing what her role is in TMC. Is she going to be 'bad'? Will there be some humanity left there? Will her integration into the 'collective' humanise the Asurans? Will them incorporating Weir into their society have far reaching effects for them that they haven't seen coming? The potential is there for something really exciting to happen with this character, I believe. :)

If a character is to be written out from the regular cast, or reduced, for whatever reason, I can't think of a better and more sympathetic storyline personally.

Integrabyte
September 19th, 2007, 04:40 AM
So, as far as I'm concerned the two storylines, as yet, aren't even similar, other than they're both 'out there' somewhere and not on Atlantis.


Weir follows in Ford's footsteps. Both have the same exit ticket but with slight variations, one of them becomes a super soldier, the other a human replicator. Ford gets the enzyme from the Wraith to live longer during the feeding process, Weir gets the nanites to live longer. Both have side effects. Bottom line, Ford and Weir borrow some elements from our beloved enemies and lose control. There aren't many things left for Weir to do in the show. Just like Ford she cannot be spontaneous and is predictable. She will do something along the lines...

1. Takes over the replicators, turns into a baddy, killes all the Wraith, attacks Atlantis , John takes her out.
2. She is assigned to kill our heroes, McKay manages to get to her human part, she helps the team on a mission and joins Carson's fishing team or she ascends.
3. Oberoth kills her just for fun.


If Scenario 1 happens then our show will have only 4 seasons and we have the Repli-Carter thing all over again. After they eliminate her, our heroes will retire because we are out of baddies.

Linzi
September 19th, 2007, 05:16 AM
Weir follows in Ford's footsteps. Both have the same exit ticket but with slight variations, one of them becomes a super soldier, the other a human replicator. Ford gets the enzyme from the Wraith to live longer during the feeding process, Weir gets the nanites to live longer. Both have side effects. Bottom line, Ford and Weir borrow some elements from our beloved enemies and lose control. There aren't many things left for Weir to do in the show. Just like Ford she cannot be spontaneous and is predictable. She will do something along the lines...

1. Takes over the replicators, turns into a baddy, killes all the Wraith, attacks Atlantis , John takes her out.
2. She is assigned to kill our heroes, McKay manages to get to her human part, she helps the team on a mission and joins Carson's fishing team or she ascends.
3. Oberoth kills her just for fun.


If Scenario 1 happens then our show will have only 4 seasons and we have the Repli-Carter thing all over again. After they eliminate her, our heroes will retire because we are out of baddies.
Well, I guess those are similarites, if you look hard enough in any storyline there are similarities to previous one's. I also see differences too, as explained in my previous post.

I don't see why scenario 1 happening would mean we'll only have four seasons of SGA - how can anyone possibly know or predict that? I also can see many other scenarios than the one's you offer here. I also think Weir's storyline has the potential to be longer lasting and more interesting than Ford's one.

On a sidenote, would you mind please making sure you quote using the posters name when quoting and replying to a post? It's confusing otherwise. Thanks.

IcyNeko
September 19th, 2007, 07:32 AM
I hope they don't Ford up Weir.

It's kind of sad.. every time stargate writers try to Locutus up Stargate, it fails miserably. Though, if they wanted to write Weir out of the story completely for a season or so, they could go the path of ascension. That's almost a story arc I'd perk up to.

Something like... on the surface, the replicators are using Weir to fight the humans. But in Replicator-space, Oberoth torments her by letting her be aware enough to see what they're forcing her body to do. At some point, Niam confronts Weir, and Weir is able to reactivate his memories about why he helped the team in the first place. Then, at some point, Niam and his cohorts help Weir regain control of her body, and at a climactic moment, they all ascend.

Something sorta like that.

But SG:A is doomed, people. We're really out of baddies. :|

Integrabyte
September 19th, 2007, 08:57 AM
On a sidenote, would you mind please making sure you quote using the posters name when quoting and replying to a post? It's confusing otherwise. Thanks.

My bad, point taken. Did not realise I took the name out :).


Something like... on the surface, the replicators are using Weir to fight the humans. But in Replicator-space, Oberoth torments her by letting her be aware enough to see what they're forcing her body to do. At some point, Niam confronts Weir, and Weir is able to reactivate his memories about why he helped the team in the first place. Then, at some point, Niam and his cohorts help Weir regain control of her body, and at a climactic moment, they all ascend.

Something sorta like that.

But SG:A is doomed, people. We're really out of baddies. :|


...predictable scenario once again. Weir is a dead story. Annoying but true. Her character kind of grew on me. With Carson they took the easy way out and it was very efficient. We really are out of baddies and we need them in order to have more than 4 seasons. They cannot stretch the Wraith and Asuran thing to infinity. We need ascended beings to get in touch with our heroes, we need more ancient tech and we need the asgard tech. This is a must otherwise we will have plot holes over plot holes.

Pitry
September 19th, 2007, 10:12 AM
Yes, really. More believable on the Weir character (not so sure about the others, but at least for Weir.) Too often the acting on SGA is, to me, a bit over the top (=trying to hard.) Commonly in past episodes (and one of by beefs with SGA) the charcters are too snarky, too... whatever, they are trying to be too much. Real life is usually more laid back, subtle, and suggestive and not demonstrative. That is what I got from Tori in the first two episodes here... more reality. Perhaps because in real life her role on the show is disappearing, the emotions from that spilled over into the character's imminent demise...

So, cheers for Tori...

Well, I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. I've felt Torri Higginson is one of the best actors in the programme and she amde the character shine without a lot of substance. I just noticed that in these episodes, the acting of the people I usually feel are good actors- Higginson and David Hewlett - felt like they're standing there and givign their lines, and the acting of the actors I'm usually less than enthusiastic about - Joe Flannigan and Rachel Luttrel - felt to me even more unfitting to the episode and scenarios. I didn't feel emotions from almost anyone involved. It could be also not the actors' fault but the writing/directing/editing - the episode once again took the "let's not stop for breath" method of storytelling that left little to no room for emotional depth.



One note... be careful of being influenced by lack of music and sound effects in the review copies. It makes the whole viewing experience a little less prone to the adrenaline rush. You may have more of an emotive experience when you watch the final version.

I know. I've actually taken this into consideration. Thing is, music can only do so much. It helps, it can - when it's composed correctly - add so much to the episode - but if there's no emotional depth whatsoever, the music isn't going to fill in the blanks. And the best way for me to know what I feel is not a result of the lack of musical score - other than waiting a week and watching again :) - is Sunday. Because all the key scenes there concerning Carson are either completely muted from music or with very, very faint musical score. And that episode did make me feel, and even cry.
And, TBH, I'm usualyl not too impressed with Joel Goldsmith's music for Stargate - there were instances I thought he did a fantastic job, but usually it doesn't have too much of an affect.





That sounds like it would be very difficult to do in a show like SGA. Since SGA tends to be an action heavy fantasy/SciFi show with a target audience that is probably not honed for long, possibly introspective, melodrama your idea probably wouldn't be so popular with the ratings. Even on SG-1, the writers had to lighten the burden of Janet's death by having her keep coming back via alternate realities, and also in lightening Daniels radiation sickness with his "ascension." If they had made Weir a vegetable (or near one) and kept her that way it would probably be too heavy a dose of reality for the show's life. Even if they had merely made her slightly mentally damage that would have been too much. After all, how many (permanently) handicapped characters have we seen on SGA/SG-1 before? These are shows portraying healthy and often beautiful people, not hard doses of reality.



I'm sorry, but I absolutely don't want to see a brain-damaged Weir. That would be absolutely awful for the character, in my opinion:( No way, would a person with brain damage we allowed to stay on a high risk expedition like Atlantis. Not just that, significant brain injury takes months of specialist care to overcome. People who've had brain surgery are on anti-epileptic drugs for a long time afterwards for starters, which cause problems in themselves. That's just one example of why that wouldn't work. Would I want to see an arc for Weir where we see her battle with her disability? Absolutely not. Atlantis isn't ER or a drama show of that sort.


Maybe you both are right. Maybe I'm the one who has outgrown Stargate Atlantis. Maybe the show is directed at demographics that isn't me, and it shows. I dunno. You're right that such a thing woudl be hard to watch - and yes, I know something of what it really involves and how utterly frustrasting it can be to watch, especialy in a television show you're tuning in weekly for escapism.
But the thing is, as I said, it's not necessarily the right way to go - but it would have been something differnet. The thing that annoyed me most about Weir's removal from the show is the fact it felt like a re-run of the Siege. To me, at least, I see there are people who disagree :). I was bored. One of my favourite characters in the show was gone and I find myself bored and not even slightly interested in her fate. You know what? I'd have preferred them killing her, permenantly, and never seeing her again, and not this.
And it would have been somethign with more impact. I honestly don't know - maybe the continuation of the season would be better, maybe they'll all of a sudden find again the show they were writing from Real World to Sunday instead of the show they were writing in season 2. Byut I know that right now, I don't feel like tuning in to Stargate Atlantis for escapism. Because within two episodes - and I loves First Strike, BTW - they've left me feeling bored.



I don't actually think so far, Weir's storyline is like Ford's per se. Though, of course, we haven't seen TMC yet.

Weir was a prisoner of war when we last saw her, Ford ran off hyped up on enzyme, having being altered personality wise by that powerful drug. He went rogue. So far that hasn't happened to Weir. Her story was heroic and self-sacrificing. She sacrificed herself to save the team and Atlantis knowing what it would mean for her. So, as far as I'm concerned the two storylines, as yet, aren't even similar, other than they're both 'out there' somewhere and not on Atlantis.

Someone else has explained it aslready, so I'll just shortly repeat - both storylines involve removing the character from the show by giving it an "edge" that is taken from the bad guys and then leaving the character in the hands of the badguys. The details of what's that edge and who are the badguys is, for me, an example of re-writing the script instead of shooting the exact same episode again. It feels like ticking a box with "we need this and this and this". Box-ticking writing doesn't keep me itnerested, only frustrated and bored.

kymeric
September 19th, 2007, 11:08 AM
Personally I hate it more when they leave a character of which they don't have the intention of keeping them around, hanging in limbo, then that they would just kill it and be done with it.

That illusion burst a long time ago.

Blame the *****y fans. If they do get closure they get abuncha fanatics out their window marching with candles singing kumbyah till they bring beckett back... oops

Falcon Horus
September 19th, 2007, 11:30 AM
Blame the *****y fans. If they do get closure they get abuncha fanatics out their window marching with candles singing kumbyah till they bring beckett back... oops

I'm not sure I can green you but I'll give it a shot in a second...

*snort*

Linzi
September 19th, 2007, 12:39 PM
Well, I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. I've felt Torri Higginson is one of the best actors in the programme and she amde the character shine without a lot of substance.

I think it is in the eye of the beholder, you're right. For me, I've felt the opposite and I really liked her here :)


I just noticed that in these episodes, the acting of the people I usually feel are good actors- Higginson and David Hewlett - felt like they're standing there and givign their lines, and the acting of the actors I'm usually less than enthusiastic about - Joe Flannigan and Rachel Luttrel - felt to me even more unfitting to the episode and scenarios. I didn't feel emotions from almost anyone involved. It could be also not the actors' fault but the writing/directing/editing - the episode once again took the "let's not stop for breath" method of storytelling that left little to no room for emotional depth.


Goodness, I felt the opposite :lol: I thought it was all very emotional, and that's what I loved about it. DH and JF were there wonderful selves, I thought, RL was great, though admittedly she didn't have an awful lot to do at times. I especially though JF was fantastic. The look on his face when he found out about Weir's condition and the tears in his eyes made tears come to my eyes. I personally don't want season openers to be full of reflection. I want fast paced stories, with emotional interludes etc.. for me I was satisfied with what I saw. But, let's not forget these were unpolished and incomplete episodes.




I know. I've actually taken this into consideration. Thing is, music can only do so much. It helps, it can - when it's composed correctly - add so much to the episode - but if there's no emotional depth whatsoever, the music isn't going to fill in the blanks. And the best way for me to know what I feel is not a result of the lack of musical score - other than waiting a week and watching again :) - is Sunday. Because all the key scenes there concerning Carson are either completely muted from music or with very, very faint musical score. And that episode did make me feel, and even cry.
And, TBH, I'm usualyl not too impressed with Joel Goldsmith's music for Stargate - there were instances I thought he did a fantastic job, but usually it doesn't have too much of an affect.

I love Joel Goldsmith's scores personally, and feel generally they are well suited to the scenes. Occasionally I find them distracting. I can't agree there was no emotional depth in these episodes. I thought it had far more in it that usual. Well, each to his/her own :)









Maybe you both are right. Maybe I'm the one who has outgrown Stargate Atlantis. Maybe the show is directed at demographics that isn't me, and it shows. I dunno. You're right that such a thing woudl be hard to watch - and yes, I know something of what it really involves and how utterly frustrasting it can be to watch, especialy in a television show you're tuning in weekly for escapism.

Honestly, for me, nothing has changed that much. Not yet, anyway. It looked like the same old SGA but just was more emotional, I thought. Other than the dramatic conclusion to the Weir storyline, they were like most SGA season opening episodes for me. A mixture of vis effects, racing against all odd to survive, danger for a character or two, action and some character moments, but pretty fast paced.



But the thing is, as I said, it's not necessarily the right way to go - but it would have been something differnet. The thing that annoyed me most about Weir's removal from the show is the fact it felt like a re-run of the Siege. To me, at least, I see there are people who disagree :). I was bored. One of my favourite characters in the show was gone and I find myself bored and not even slightly interested in her fate. You know what? I'd have preferred them killing her, permenantly, and never seeing her again, and not this.

I see your point, but I'm wouldn't be a fan of killing Weir off. I like resolution ultimately, yes, but I feel this storyline has got more mileage in it. Moreso that Ford's. By The Hive I was tiring of his, to be honest.



And it would have been somethign with more impact. I honestly don't know - maybe the continuation of the season would be better, maybe they'll all of a sudden find again the show they were writing from Real World to Sunday instead of the show they were writing in season 2. Byut I know that right now, I don't feel like tuning in to Stargate Atlantis for escapism. Because within two episodes - and I loves First Strike, BTW - they've left me feeling bored.

That's a shame :( I'm sorry you felt that way. I sat enthralled, really :lol: I guess you and I are opposites of the spectrum today! ;)





Someone else has explained it aslready, so I'll just shortly repeat - both storylines involve removing the character from the show by giving it an "edge" that is taken from the bad guys and then leaving the character in the hands of the badguys. The details of what's that edge and who are the badguys is, for me, an example of re-writing the script instead of shooting the exact same episode again. It feels like ticking a box with "we need this and this and this". Box-ticking writing doesn't keep me itnerested, only frustrated and bored.

I see where you're coming from. But, for me, Weir's storyline was compelling, and I didn't link it to Ford's. Maybe I'm just easily pleased? :)

Pegasus_SGA
September 19th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Weir follows in Ford's footsteps. Both have the same exit ticket but with slight variations, one of them becomes a super soldier, the other a human replicator. Ford gets the enzyme from the Wraith to live longer during the feeding process, Weir gets the nanites to live longer. Both have side effects. Bottom line, Ford and Weir borrow some elements from our beloved enemies and lose control. There aren't many things left for Weir to do in the show. Just like Ford she cannot be spontaneous and is predictable. She will do something along the lines...

1. Takes over the replicators, turns into a baddy, killes all the Wraith, attacks Atlantis , John takes her out.
2. She is assigned to kill our heroes, McKay manages to get to her human part, she helps the team on a mission and joins Carson's fishing team or she ascends.
3. Oberoth kills her just for fun.


If Scenario 1 happens then our show will have only 4 seasons and we have the Repli-Carter thing all over again. After they eliminate her, our heroes will retire because we are out of baddies.

I disagree, I think this plot line opens more storylines up for Weir, and more interesting ones to boot. Think about it, previously Weir's role was, to say the least, not that exciting (sorry, but true). Now though it gives Weir the chance to be an interesting character, to go outside the norm. (Personally I like Ford the rebel), and I look forward to seeing how they'll tie Weir in to the continuing arc. From your list, I think they're all great opportunities for Weir and ultimately isn't that what people have been asking for?

There are always baddies out there, we just haven't met them yet. :D


I hope they don't Ford up Weir.

It's kind of sad.. every time stargate writers try to Locutus up Stargate, it fails miserably. Though, if they wanted to write Weir out of the story completely for a season or so, they could go the path of ascension. That's almost a story arc I'd perk up to.

Something like... on the surface, the replicators are using Weir to fight the humans. But in Replicator-space, Oberoth torments her by letting her be aware enough to see what they're forcing her body to do. At some point, Niam confronts Weir, and Weir is able to reactivate his memories about why he helped the team in the first place. Then, at some point, Niam and his cohorts help Weir regain control of her body, and at a climactic moment, they all ascend.

Something sorta like that.

But SG:A is doomed, people. We're really out of baddies. :|

I seem to be very disagreeable lately :lol: I quite enjoy the fact that characters get to play their polar opposites sometimes. But what I like to see more tbh is the ramifications of actions, how they felt leaving her behind, what the future holds and how they'll handle her being in the enemy's hands.


My bad, point taken. Did not realise I took the name out :).

...predictable scenario once again. Weir is a dead story. Annoying but true. Her character kind of grew on me. With Carson they took the easy way out and it was very efficient. We really are out of baddies and we need them in order to have more than 4 seasons. They cannot stretch the Wraith and Asuran thing to infinity. We need ascended beings to get in touch with our heroes, we need more ancient tech and we need the asgard tech. This is a must otherwise we will have plot holes over plot holes.

See, for me, the Asgard are not part (really) of the SGA storyline, and to be honest I can't see it happening that we integrate their tech into SGA. I look forward to more wraith, travelers, genii, hopefully Kolya, the weird looking dudes in missing, I think it was.. and I can't believe I said 'dudes'... oh man.


Well, I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. I've felt Torri Higginson is one of the best actors in the programme and she amde the character shine without a lot of substance. I just noticed that in these episodes, the acting of the people I usually feel are good actors- Higginson and David Hewlett - felt like they're standing there and givign their lines, and the acting of the actors I'm usually less than enthusiastic about - Joe Flannigan and Rachel Luttrel - felt to me even more unfitting to the episode and scenarios. I didn't feel emotions from almost anyone involved. It could be also not the actors' fault but the writing/directing/editing - the episode once again took the "let's not stop for breath" method of storytelling that left little to no room for emotional depth.

I think they all played their parts very well, and don't forget there was no score, which can add to the suspense and drama. I disagree once more that they didn't show feelings? What about Ronon, or Sheppard or McKay fighting on Weir's behalf? Don't forget this ep isn't 'finished'.




I know. I've actually taken this into consideration. Thing is, music can only do so much. It helps, it can - when it's composed correctly - add so much to the episode - but if there's no emotional depth whatsoever, the music isn't going to fill in the blanks. And the best way for me to know what I feel is not a result of the lack of musical score - other than waiting a week and watching again :) - is Sunday. Because all the key scenes there concerning Carson are either completely muted from music or with very, very faint musical score. And that episode did make me feel, and even cry.
And, TBH, I'm usualyl not too impressed with Joel Goldsmith's music for Stargate - there were instances I thought he did a fantastic job, but usually it doesn't have too much of an affect.


I think it (the score) adds more to the feeling of an episode than people realise. Are you going to watch the final version? I loved the end scene of Sunday for that very reason. :D




Maybe you both are right. Maybe I'm the one who has outgrown Stargate Atlantis. Maybe the show is directed at demographics that isn't me, and it shows. I dunno. You're right that such a thing woudl be hard to watch - and yes, I know something of what it really involves and how utterly frustrasting it can be to watch, especialy in a television show you're tuning in weekly for escapism.
But the thing is, as I said, it's not necessarily the right way to go - but it would have been something differnet. The thing that annoyed me most about Weir's removal from the show is the fact it felt like a re-run of the Siege. To me, at least, I see there are people who disagree :). I was bored. One of my favourite characters in the show was gone and I find myself bored and not even slightly interested in her fate. You know what? I'd have preferred them killing her, permenantly, and never seeing her again, and not this.


Why not watch it as the finished version and see how you feel then? Or not... How was it a re-run of the siege?



And it would have been somethign with more impact. I honestly don't know - maybe the continuation of the season would be better, maybe they'll all of a sudden find again the show they were writing from Real World to Sunday instead of the show they were writing in season 2. Byut I know that right now, I don't feel like tuning in to Stargate Atlantis for escapism. Because within two episodes - and I loves First Strike, BTW - they've left me feeling bored.


I loved the Real world :D I don't know what to say to you to make you feel 'less bored', but if you loved FS, what's changed?



Blame the *****y fans. If they do get closure they get abuncha fanatics out their window marching with candles singing kumbyah till they bring beckett back... oops

I shouldn't laugh, but :lol:

Pegasus_SGA
September 19th, 2007, 12:59 PM
I think it is in the eye of the beholder, you're right. For me, I've felt the opposite and I really liked her here :)



Goodness, I felt the opposite :lol: I thought it was all very emotional, and that's what I loved about it. DH and JF were there wonderful selves, I thought, RL was great, though admittedly she didn't have an awful lot to do at times. I especially though JF was fantastic. The look on his face when he found out about Weir's condition and the tears in his eyes made tears come to my eyes. I personally don't want season openers to be full of reflection. I want fast paced stories, with emotional interludes etc.. for me I was satisfied with what I saw. But, let's not forget these were unpolished and incomplete episodes.



I love Joel Goldsmith's scores personally, and feel generally they are well suited to the scenes. Occasionally I find them distracting. I can't agree there was no emotional depth in these episodes. I thought it had far more in it that usual. Well, each to his/her own :)



My goodness Linz, are we going to have a difference of opinion here. :eek:

I think for me that Joel's scores actually add depth, emotion and excitement to an episode. I didn't realise how much music was used until I watched these eps, and goodness me the man deserves a gold star. For me though it heightens the experience and the acting involved, and certainly not distracting! Sorry Linz i'm gonna have to.... disagree with you on this... :o But on a more positive note, I completely agree with you on all your other points :D :D

Linzi
September 19th, 2007, 01:04 PM
My goodness Linz, are we going to have a difference of opinion here. :eek:

I think for me that Joel's scores actually add depth, emotion and excitement to an episode. I didn't realise how much music was used until I watched these eps, and goodness me the man deserves a gold star. For me though it heightens the experience and the acting involved, and certainly not distracting! Sorry Linz i'm gonna have to.... disagree with you on this... :o But on a more positive note, I completely agree with you on all your other points :D :D
OMG! You disagreed with me? How dare you! Huh, you disconnected yourself from the Porgie collective again, didn't you? Cheeky lil Devil, you! ;)

Pegasus_SGA
September 19th, 2007, 01:11 PM
OMG! You disagreed with me? How dare you! Huh, you disconnected yourself from the Porgie collective again, didn't you? Cheeky lil Devil, you! ;)

I'm ashamed to admit I have. I'm sorry, Linz, but I can only be porged by you so often... oh my that sounds so rude, :lol: and then my individuality reasserts myself. :P

Linzi
September 19th, 2007, 01:16 PM
I'm ashamed to admit I have. I'm sorry, Linz, but I can only be porged by you so often... oh my that sounds so rude, :lol: and then my individuality reasserts myself. :P
:eek: Oh yeah, you're one of a kind alright! ;)

Pitry
September 19th, 2007, 01:39 PM
Honestly, for me, nothing has changed that much. Not yet, anyway. It looked like the same old SGA but just was more emotional, I thought. Other than the dramatic conclusion to the Weir storyline, they were like most SGA season opening episodes for me. A mixture of vis effects, racing against all odd to survive, danger for a character or two, action and some character moments, but pretty fast paced.

I guess this is a part of the problem for me. Nothing has] changed.
When the Siege aired, I lvoed it to bits. Istill think it's one of the best season 1/2 episodes. And I loved how fast-paced it was, really. I remember on first viewing, it felt incredibly fast and interesting.
When No MAn's Land aired, it was jsut as fast, but I've already seen that - and the incredible CGI, ni Siege. I admit what I like best about the episode was Weir's storyline - her struggle with the IOA, her bits with Landry adn Woolsey - they're by far the slowest parts of the episode, but they gave it a soul. I wasn't thrilled by the episode, but I liked it much better than I did Flesh and Blood, for example.
When watching Adrift.... it felt exactly like a Stargate Atlantis season opener, actually. :) Only this time it isn't new anymore. So a lot of the things that made Siege a good epsiode to me are now exactly the thigns that make me dislike Adrift. :)




I see your point, but I'm wouldn't be a fan of killing Weir off. I like resolution ultimately, yes, but I feel this storyline has got more mileage in it. Moreso that Ford's. By The Hive I was tiring of his, to be honest.

Here'st o hoping! Oh, I would love if they actually use the fact they didn't ,kill her off to do somethign with her. Who knows, maybe if there is a season 5 we'l even get her back (extremly unlikely...). I'm hoping, but I have to admit I'm doubtful.



That's a shame :( I'm sorry you felt that way. I sat enthralled, really :lol: I guess you and I are opposites of the spectrum today! ;)
Bwahaha, so we are! Well, it;d be boring if peopel agreed all the time! :D



I think they all played their parts very well, and don't forget there was no score, which can add to the suspense and drama. I disagree once more that they didn't show feelings? What about Ronon, or Sheppard or McKay fighting on Weir's behalf? Don't forget this ep isn't 'finished'.

Actually, you're right - I wanted to mention Rionon when I was talking about the music, and forgot. If there is a moment in Adrift where the music will probably be helpful it's the Ronon scene when he's talking to the unconscious Elizabeth. That's the only scene I've felt projected eral feelings, and would probably be enhanced by the music.
As for the McKay bits - they were going so fast from crisis to crisis I didn't feel they gave him time to stop and expres his efelings -like Ronon did, for example. And as for Sheppard.
Look I'm sorry, I hoenstly am... I just can't connect to Joe Flannigan's acting.... :(





I think it (the score) adds more to the feeling of an episode than people realise. Are you going to watch the final version? I loved the end scene of Sunday for that very reason. :D




Why not watch it as the finished version and see how you feel then? Or not... How was it a re-run of the siege?

Don't worry, I've every intentino to watch the finished version, too.

How was it a re-run of the Siege? Well..... the "and then" type of storytelling - moving from one crisis to the other, never let your characters rest, because as soon as they overcome one crisis another pops up. After a while it makes me stop feeling the suspense. There's such a thing as too much crisis where it just gets tiresome - and if it's about keeping your adrenaline up just from watching television,t here are better ways of doing it.
Also, the nature of the crisis - Atlantis is under attack and in imminent danger of destruction. Switch that with the Daedalus and you got No Man's Land, as well.
The whole Weir/ Ford similarities I've talked about.
Why did I like First Strike but not Adrift? First strike didn't follow the "and then" storytelling. At least a part of it didn't. The entire beginning was jsut that - a beginning; we were told a story and the writers let it be told. In a way, I think a part of the problem is the automatic allocation of a two parter as season premiere, and perhaps the cliffhanger as the season finale. Had they framed it differnetly - make this 3-parter a 2-parter, or drop the entire idea of cliffhanger, it would have been forced them to pace it differnetly. I've thopught about it, and I think the reaosn I've never felt like this with SG1 season premieres is because they structured them differently. It was a 4 parter for season 1-2. A 2 parter for season 2 or 3, another 3/4 parter for season 4/5.... And then no cliffhanger for Redemption, or a semi 5 parter for Lost City/ New ORder, the three parter of Avalon... they kept on changing things. Atlatnis could probably benefit from a change of habit.
And also, lastly and I stop ranting, promise :) - I felt the human moments in First Strike were more human. The part when Elizabeth talks to Teyla about her anger of being ignored by the military stands to mind, but I have a feeling there were others.
It could be also a matter of freshness. We always see our heroes in danger of death and the rest of the heroes worry about whether they'll survive or not. Seeing one fo the heroes talking about being pushed out of command was... well, different.

Integrabyte
September 19th, 2007, 02:25 PM
I'm ashamed to admit I have. I'm sorry, Linz, but I can only be porged by you so often... oh my that sounds so rude, :lol: and then my individuality reasserts myself. :P


Just don't take the whip out ;).

Mitchell82
September 19th, 2007, 04:29 PM
My goodness Linz, are we going to have a difference of opinion here. :eek:

I think for me that Joel's scores actually add depth, emotion and excitement to an episode. I didn't realise how much music was used until I watched these eps, and goodness me the man deserves a gold star. For me though it heightens the experience and the acting involved, and certainly not distracting! Sorry Linz i'm gonna have to.... disagree with you on this... :o But on a more positive note, I completely agree with you on all your other points :D :D

Agreed the music and sound effects make it that much better.

the dancer of spaz
September 19th, 2007, 04:34 PM
Definitely. I'm looking forward to the polished, finished product.

Mitchell82
September 19th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Definitely. I'm looking forward to the polished, finished product.

Same here though for me it will be the first viewing.

rarocks24
September 19th, 2007, 07:33 PM
Awesome eps, what a way for Weir to go. :)

the fifth man
September 19th, 2007, 08:25 PM
I haven't seen them yet. But I know I can't wait to.

Elitenova
September 20th, 2007, 02:50 AM
Lets just say that her ninites are activated.

Linzi
September 20th, 2007, 04:27 AM
Just don't take the whip out ;).
Peg's not brandishing her whip around again is she? I'm embarrassed for her :o She's getting a reputation around here :eek:

Definitely. I'm looking forward to the polished, finished product.

I am too. I'm interested to know if there'll be any differences scene-wise. Will anything be cut out? I'm also looking forward to seeing the new opening credits. :)

Integrabyte
September 20th, 2007, 07:13 AM
Peg's not brandishing her whip around again is she? I'm embarrassed for her :o She's getting a reputation around here :eek:


I am too. I'm interested to know if there'll be any differences scene-wise. Will anything be cut out? I'm also looking forward to seeing the new opening credits. :)


There is plenty of criticism so the writers cannot say they had no "fan" input before the final product. I highly doubt they will polish some of the scenes. They will add a couple bangs, 2-3 kawooooossshes, and sound where normally you do not have sound :D. I wonder if that is the recipe for a successful episode.

SGFerrit
September 20th, 2007, 07:17 AM
There is plenty of criticism so the writers cannot say they had no "fan" input before the final product.

Yeah. Mostly from people who would have complained no matter what had happened.

Integrabyte
September 20th, 2007, 07:19 AM
Yeah. Mostly from people who would have complained no matter what had happened.


Care to elaborate?

SGFerrit
September 20th, 2007, 07:23 AM
I personally don't believe the people who are anti-s4 would ever have been able to enjoy it, considering what happened.

the dancer of spaz
September 20th, 2007, 10:31 AM
There is plenty of criticism so the writers cannot say they had no "fan" input before the final product.

Well... I think the criticism is pretty moot, considering the final product would've been done long ago. If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably been in the can since July at the latest. Or, at least, I would hope so. Otherwise the turnaround per episode would be mighty slow. :S

Falcon Horus
September 20th, 2007, 10:35 AM
Well... I think the criticism is pretty moot, considering the final product would've been done long ago.

It's like yelling to an empty room if someone could get you a coffee. :p

Integrabyte
September 20th, 2007, 12:20 PM
It's like yelling to an empty room if someone could get you a coffee. :p

Hahaha. I guess that is wishful thinking. They are prolly working on the last episodes now so for them the first two are yesterday's news :mckayanime17:

Mitchell82
September 20th, 2007, 04:11 PM
There is plenty of criticism so the writers cannot say they had no "fan" input before the final product. I highly doubt they will polish some of the scenes. They will add a couple bangs, 2-3 kawooooossshes, and sound where normally you do not have sound :D. I wonder if that is the recipe for a successful episode.

Well that just adds to a great episode. I havent seen it but from what I have heard it will be great. As to the sound that's true with any scifi show and yes it's true no sound is in space but it just makes it more dramatic and I like that.

Falcon Horus
September 20th, 2007, 04:21 PM
As to the sound that's true with any scifi show and yes it's true no sound is in space but it just makes it more dramatic and I like that.

Actually, no sound at all gives it a more freightening and eerie feeling. At least, my chest tightened a little with all that silence. When everything goes silent you just know something's gonna happen.

Mitchell82
September 20th, 2007, 04:27 PM
Actually, no sound at all gives it a more freightening and eerie feeling. At least, my chest tightened a little with all that silence. When everything goes silent you just know something's gonna happen.

Hmm I see your point and while I refuse to watch the uncompleted eps I still prefer the sound to none at all. I can't imagine drones or energy weapons without sound.

Briangate78
September 22nd, 2007, 07:22 AM
There will be a Season 5 dammit! :p

Ltcolshepjumper
September 22nd, 2007, 07:33 AM
There will be a Season 5 dammit! :p

Yeah, we all know. Scifi's not that stupid.

Falcon Horus
September 22nd, 2007, 07:41 AM
Scifi's not that stupid.

Aren't they? :p

Integrabyte
September 22nd, 2007, 07:41 AM
There will be a Season 5 dammit! :p


My vote is on S5. S6 or S7 is wishful thinking. SGA will end up like SG1 ;). That is the cold reality ;)

mcbarr
September 22nd, 2007, 07:47 AM
Aren't they? :p

Good question. :cool:

Integrabyte
September 22nd, 2007, 12:40 PM
I dont think I need to use spoiler tags. The title already has spoilers in it :D.


Speaking of Weir. How does her hair grow back so fast? I mean she obviously gets a GI JANE haircut and then kawooosh she has long hair. Am I missing something?



http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7540/vlcsnap2460302uq8.png
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7303/vlcsnap2460367gl7.png
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9943/vlcsnap6672684hk8.png

Linzi
September 22nd, 2007, 12:42 PM
Yep! They're called nanites! :lol:

Integrabyte
September 22nd, 2007, 12:44 PM
Yep! They're called nanites! :lol:


Just like that? They spent a zillion on that morph from Sheppard to Weir and they could not create an effect to show her hair grow. Damn, I did it again :P.

Linzi
September 22nd, 2007, 01:08 PM
Just like that? They spent a zillion on that morph from Sheppard to Weir and they could not create an effect to show her hair grow. Damn, I did it again :P.
:lol: I have to admit that morph weirded me out totally! :eek:

Falcon Horus
September 22nd, 2007, 01:57 PM
:lol: I have to admit that morph weirded me out totally! :eek:

Second that.

Ripple in Space
September 22nd, 2007, 02:59 PM
Actually, no sound at all gives it a more freightening and eerie feeling. At least, my chest tightened a little with all that silence. When everything goes silent you just know something's gonna happen.

I liked the crew yelling out "BANG!" rather than a real explosion Sound effect. They should leave it as is.

Also, instead of those CGI space battles they should give David Hewlett models of the Asuran Warship & the Apollo, and tell him to just go crazy, and yell out "bzoop" whenever a laser is fired.

Falcon Horus
September 22nd, 2007, 03:35 PM
I liked the crew yelling out "BANG!" rather than a real explosion Sound effect. They should leave it as is.

Also, instead of those CGI space battles they should give David Hewlett models of the Asuran Warship & the Apollo, and tell him to just go crazy, and yell out "bzoop" whenever a laser is fired.

Now that would for some interesting stuff... I bet David would get out his Dalek and add a little extra to scene. :p

Mitchell82
September 22nd, 2007, 07:15 PM
My vote is on S5. S6 or S7 is wishful thinking. SGA will end up like SG1 ;). That is the cold reality ;)

Ooooo my kind of thinking. I never want SGA to end.

WingedPegasus
September 22nd, 2007, 08:06 PM
Ooooo my kind of thinking. I never want SGA to end.

Second that! At least keep it running long enough for me to snag a starring role ;)

the fifth man
September 22nd, 2007, 08:11 PM
Ooooo my kind of thinking. I never want SGA to end.

As long as the quality of the show remains high like SG-1 did, I'd love SGA to continue to go on and on.

elbo
September 23rd, 2007, 03:02 AM
Well, i consider "Lifeline" like one the best SG episodes and extremly dense in events, along with "The Lost City" and "Dominion". I'm waiting the final version.



Weir is surprinsingly well written in this episode, impredictible and with initiative and awarness. First time when she play in offensive and like a team member.

Though, i don't understand from where they come up with that "massive replicator fleet of ships".

Mitchell82
September 23rd, 2007, 11:06 AM
As long as the quality of the show remains high like SG-1 did, I'd love SGA to continue to go on and on.

Agreed, and since the crew is baiscally the same I don't see the quality going downhill.

Integrabyte
September 23rd, 2007, 12:00 PM
Agreed, and since the crew is baiscally the same I don't see the quality going downhill.


I dont see the Wraith and Asuran arc last 10 Seasons. We need new baddies and new things. Hope they don't use the asgard and furlings as a last resort....

SGFerrit
September 23rd, 2007, 12:31 PM
Though, i don't understand from where they come up with that "massive replicator fleet of ships".



My theory is... they have had smaller, galactic-type ships for a very long time, but in First Strike they were building Aurora class intergalactic ships in order to reach Earth (having not needed such big fast ships previously)

SGFerrit
September 23rd, 2007, 12:31 PM
Hope they don't use the asgard....

That would be a bit difficult!:D Unless they are going to shove sticks up the arses of all the charred Asgard corpses and use them as puppets:P

PG15
September 23rd, 2007, 01:05 PM
My theory is... they have had smaller, galactic-type ships for a very long time, but in First Strike they were building Aurora class intergalactic ships in order to reach Earth (having not needed such big fast ships previously)


I can drink to that. Another way to explain it could be that they built these ships out of nanites right after First Strike

Integrabyte
September 23rd, 2007, 01:26 PM
That would be a bit difficult!:D Unless they are going to shove sticks up the arses of all the charred Asgard corpses and use them as puppets:P

Wouldn't be the first time. They brought back Janet with an alternate Sg1 team. They will bring Carson back either a Wraith either some bug. They will bring Weir back...so I guess they will bring the Asgard back dressed in furlings :)

Pegasus_SGA
September 23rd, 2007, 03:44 PM
Just before I head to bed, had this burning question after watching lifeline... and it's got me a bit confused. :S

When Rodney activated the anti replicator field that surrounded the jumper and the control tower, and subsequently killed the replicators. Why then didn't Elizabeth's nanites in her brain get obliterated to? Did Rodney build a sub routine into her nanites so that they weren't affected by the field? Would he have had time to do that given what else he was doing? And if he did, wouldn't her uplink with the replicators pass that subroutine onto them to? :S

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller...

Falcon Horus
September 23rd, 2007, 04:05 PM
Just before I head to bed, had this burning question after watching lifeline... and it's got me a bit confused. :S

When Rodney activated the anti replicator field that surrounded the jumper and the control tower, and subsequently killed the replicators. Why then didn't Elizabeth's nanites in her brain get obliterated to? Did Rodney build a sub routine into her nanites so that they weren't affected by the field? Would he have had time to do that given what else he was doing? And if he did, wouldn't her uplink with the replicators pass that subroutine onto them to? :S

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller...

I thought about it too the moment the shield went up... I wrote it off as major plothole.

But it could be that the nanites they used were somehow imune to it due to some tampering by Rodney himself, yet the flaw in that being the link with the Asuran hive-mind. -> What you said...

RealmOfX
September 23rd, 2007, 04:51 PM
Just before I head to bed, had this burning question after watching lifeline... and it's got me a bit confused. :S

When Rodney activated the anti replicator field that surrounded the jumper and the control tower, and subsequently killed the replicators. Why then didn't Elizabeth's nanites in her brain get obliterated to? Did Rodney build a sub routine into her nanites so that they weren't affected by the field? Would he have had time to do that given what else he was doing? And if he did, wouldn't her uplink with the replicators pass that subroutine onto them to? :S

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller...

Well, you have to actually pass through the field / get hit by it for it to work and Elizabeth never went through the field. If I recall correctly when Rodney initiated the field it appeared around the outside of the jumper and then he extended it outwards through the control tower.

Mitchell82
September 23rd, 2007, 04:56 PM
I dont see the Wraith and Asuran arc last 10 Seasons. We need new baddies and new things. Hope they don't use the asgard and furlings as a last resort....

They won't. The Asgard are dead and TPTB wish they never invented the furlings. And no the two enemies alone couldn't last 10 seasons they would need new enemies like they did with SG-1.

Integrabyte
September 23rd, 2007, 11:34 PM
They won't. The Asgard are dead and TPTB wish they never invented the furlings. And no the two enemies alone couldn't last 10 seasons they would need new enemies like they did with SG-1.

Well, we had bad ancients, aka ORI, we had the Goa'uld, Aschen, yadda yadda yadda, all we need now is bad Asgard, bad Tollan or even bad coffee :).

Falcon Horus
September 24th, 2007, 04:42 AM
Well, you have to actually pass through the field / get hit by it for it to work and Elizabeth never went through the field. If I recall correctly when Rodney initiated the field it appeared around the outside of the jumper and then he extended it outwards through the control tower.

Ah yes, that's good point... A very good point indeed.

Pegasus_SGA
September 24th, 2007, 04:48 AM
I thought about it too the moment the shield went up... I wrote it off as major plothole.

But it could be that the nanites they used were somehow imune to it due to some tampering by Rodney himself, yet the flaw in that being the link with the Asuran hive-mind. -> What you said...

That's possibly one explanation that Rodney adjusted Elizabeth's nanites so she wasn't affected by the AR field.


Well, you have to actually pass through the field / get hit by it for it to work and Elizabeth never went through the field. If I recall correctly when Rodney initiated the field it appeared around the outside of the jumper and then he extended it outwards through the control tower.

The thing is she did go through the field, and not only that, but the AR field protected the team right up to the barrier. So, while yes those coming through from the other side into the field would be obliterated. For Elizabeth she was already IN the field and therefore it should have affected her to, again, unless Rodney amended her nanites. But would he have had time to single her out to do it, and wouldn't it have affected the others given her link to them? I know they hadn't merged at that time, but she was aware of their prescence and they hers so.... still confused and it's bugging my brain now. :lol:

Falcon Horus
September 24th, 2007, 05:03 AM
T...still confused and it's bugging my brain now. :lol:

*joins in the confusion* Thank you very much for that. :S

Pegasus_SGA
September 24th, 2007, 05:08 AM
*joins in the confusion* Thank you very much for that. :S
:lol: sorry. :o There's probably a perfectly good explanation for it, like Rodney amending the nanites so that they wouldn't affect Elizabeth. But, oh man, i'm hanging around Integ too much. (He's obviously a bad influence on me) :lol: but wouldn't Rodney have said that he amended it?

Okay i'm shutting up now, lol, i'll ask JM when it officially airs. :lol:

Falcon Horus
September 24th, 2007, 05:09 AM
... i'll ask JM when it officially airs. :lol:

Now, there's an idea. :D

Integrabyte
September 24th, 2007, 06:04 AM
:lol: sorry. :o There's probably a perfectly good explanation for it, like Rodney amending the nanites so that they wouldn't affect Elizabeth. But, oh man, i'm hanging around Integ too much. (He's obviously a bad influence on me) :lol: but wouldn't Rodney have said that he amended it?

Okay i'm shutting up now, lol, i'll ask JM when it officially airs. :lol:


Great minds think alike Peggy ;). It was normal for you to join the Dark Side . I think we could teach the writers a thing or two :). Of course that is a huge plot hoooole :P. That hole looks like the Grand Canyon :D

Integrabyte
September 24th, 2007, 06:07 AM
Now, there's an idea. :D


Good or bad? Who knows...Last time a very interesting question (about Janet) was posed at one of these SG reunions one of the producers started to "moan" about Teryl Rothery's, Janet's to be more precise, mom and dad for 5 minutes and when the whole audience was captivated, he said he lied and that he could not answer. So I highly doubt we will get anywhere by asking the producers.



That's possibly one explanation that Rodney adjusted Elizabeth's nanites so she wasn't affected by the AR field.

...and he did this when?

At the same time when he programmed the nanites to heal her, fixed Atlantis, and tried to kill her?

Pegasus_SGA
September 24th, 2007, 06:09 AM
Great minds think alike Peggy ;). It was normal for you to join the Dark Side . I think we could teach the writers a thing or two :). Of course that is a huge plot hoooole :P. That hole looks like the Grand Canyon :D

:lol: Do you have cookies over there? :P Hehehe, there's probably a perfectly logical reason for it... she says confidently. I just don't know what that is.

I mean technically it could be that during the trip to the control tower where they could access the ZPM, Rodney realised that it might affect Weir, so en-route he tampered with the nanites base code, thus making her immune to the field. And plausibly she could have run out of the jumper and managed to get through the field when they were allready immune...

I just need to know now, :lol:

Pegasus_SGA
September 24th, 2007, 06:10 AM
Good or bad? Who knows...Last time a very interesting question (about Janet) was posed at one of these SG reunions one of the producers started to "moan" about Teryl Rothery's, Janet's to be more precise, mom and dad for 5 minutes and when the whole audience was captivated, he said he lied and that he could not answer. So I highly doubt we will get anywhere by asking the producers.




...and he did this when?

At the same time when he programmed the nanites to heal her, fixed Atlantis, and tried to kill her?
:lol: But it would be fun to try and get an answer. I can be quite persistant ya know. ;) :P :D

RealmOfX
September 24th, 2007, 06:13 AM
That's possibly one explanation that Rodney adjusted Elizabeth's nanites so she wasn't affected by the AR field.



The thing is she did go through the field, and not only that, but the AR field protected the team right up to the barrier. So, while yes those coming through from the other side into the field would be obliterated. For Elizabeth she was already IN the field and therefore it should have affected her to, again, unless Rodney amended her nanites. But would he have had time to single her out to do it, and wouldn't it have affected the others given her link to them? I know they hadn't merged at that time, but she was aware of their prescence and they hers so.... still confused and it's bugging my brain now. :lol:

When did Elizabeth go through the field? I've only seen it once so I might have missed it. Actually I think we'd better clarify terms; when I say go through the field I mean through the boundary. I'm working on the principle that the field is only active/dangerous on it's perimeter (like force fields).

I'm not sure but we seem to be operating under different premises, are you working on the principle that anything inside the boundary of the field is dangerous?

Integrabyte
September 24th, 2007, 06:13 AM
:lol: But it would be fun to try and get an answer. I can be quite persistant ya know. ;) :P :D

You gonna whip poor JM :). He will give you what ever answer you wish. He will even tell you that the furlings had something do to with it. Oh wait, no...it was magnets!!!!! (roflmao)

Pegasus_SGA
September 24th, 2007, 06:24 AM
When did Elizabeth go through the field? I've only seen it once so I might have missed it. Actually I think we'd better clarify terms; when I say go through the field I mean through the boundary. I'm working on the principle that the field is only active/dangerous on it's perimeter (like force fields).

I'm not sure but we seem to be operating under different premises, are you working on the principle that anything inside the boundary of the field is dangerous?

It was when she was in the jumper telling Rodney that the replicators were trying to breach the barrier. It's possible that they already did (breach the field), by the time she went through it, but it's still the question for me of why she wasn't affected by the field being inside it.

If you're hypothosizing that it only affects them if they come into contact with the field, then that's certainly a possibility, but why then have a shield that completely surrounds you and uses up a tonne of energy consumption, when a simply barrier would suffice? For me a shield protects everything within field, so her nanites should have been affected whether she breached it or not, because isn't the shield supposed to protect you from everything in and around like the scene in The return when McKay activated the field and everything inside it was obliterated. and I assumed... maybe wrongly that this would work along the same principles. :lol:


You gonna whip poor JM :). He will give you what ever answer you wish. He will even tell you that the furlings had something do to with it. Oh wait, no...it was magnets!!!!! (roflmao)

:lol: No, whipping doesn't work with Mr M, i'll try and bribe him with cookies instead. :D

I'm getting like a dog with a bone on this point. Someone please tell me to shut up and just enjoy the storyline (which I thoroughly enjoyed and sniffled at btw) :D

Integrabyte
September 24th, 2007, 06:30 AM
:lol: No, whipping doesn't work with Mr M, i'll try and bribe him with cookies instead. :D


What if he bribes you with something you really like? Will you take no for an answer? You say you are persistent....maybe John will come without a t-shirt, what will you do then? Hehehe, you will forget what you wanted to ask ;).


and I assumed... maybe wrongly that this would work along the same principles.

You assumed right ;). McKay did the same thing he did in the Return. He just neglected the fact that there were more replicators than in Atlantis and that they were not all hit at the same time ;). Such a BORG thing, innit? 7 of 9 " We are Borg, we will adapt :P "

Pegasus_SGA
September 24th, 2007, 06:38 AM
What if he bribes you with something you really like? Will you take no for an answer? You say you are persistent....maybe John will come without a t-shirt, what will you do then? Hehehe, you will forget what you wanted to ask ;).

Who says I can't get both? ;) :P :D I have remarkable powers of persuasion ya know. :D




You assumed right ;). McKay did the same thing he did in the Return. He just neglected the fact that there were more replicators than in Atlantis and that they were not all hit at the same time ;). Such a BORG thing, innit? 7 of 9 " We are Borg, we will adapt :P "

Ah but weren't they tied in to the shield generators at that time? So I can understand how the priciples of this might be different, so i'm willing to hang far for now on going to the dark side. I will never be assimilated, i'm an individual who's got a very big mouth and is not afraid to assert her individuality. Adapt I can do though. ;) :P :D

Integrabyte
September 24th, 2007, 06:42 AM
Who says I can't get both? ;) :P :D I have remarkable powers of persuasion ya know. :D




Ah but weren't they tied in to the shield generators at that time? So I can understand how the priciples of this might be different, so i'm willing to hang far for now on going to the dark side. I will never be assimilated, i'm an individual who's got a very big mouth and is not afraid to assert her individuality. Adapt I can do though. ;) :P :D


...an adapt you shall ;). One has to compromise in this world. You cannot have both. Shirtless Sheppard or answer to a huge plot hole ;).

McKay focused on the shield generator because in "Return part deux" he claimed that the only way to defeat them is to hit them at once. The problem arises here ;). In both Return part deux :P and First Strike the shield is raised gradually and not at the same time in the whole city ;). So our SGA borg drones were supposed to adapt but they didn't because the conditions for McKay's plan to work needed to be fulfilled ;). We found another Canyon ;).

RealmOfX
September 24th, 2007, 07:16 AM
It was when she was in the jumper telling Rodney that the replicators were trying to breach the barrier. It's possible that they already did (breach the field), by the time she went through it, but it's still the question for me of why she wasn't affected by the field being inside it.

If you're hypothosizing that it only affects them if they come into contact with the field, then that's certainly a possibility, but why then have a shield that completely surrounds you and uses up a tonne of energy consumption, when a simply barrier would suffice? For me a shield protects everything within field, so her nanites should have been affected whether she breached it or not, because isn't the shield supposed to protect you from everything in and around like the scene in The return when McKay activated the field and everything inside it was obliterated. and I assumed... maybe wrongly that this would work along the same principles. :lol:



:lol: No, whipping doesn't work with Mr M, i'll try and bribe him with cookies instead. :D

I'm getting like a dog with a bone on this point. Someone please tell me to shut up and just enjoy the storyline (which I thoroughly enjoyed and sniffled at btw) :D

Not sure I'm following you, Elizabeth didn't go through the field when she was in the jumper. Didn't the field get generated around the outside of the jumper and then get extended outwards?

I'm curious too, how they meant the shield to work because I only assumed (yes a dangerous action ;) ) it was like a force field because of the way they showed it visually, only replicators touching the outer edge seemed to be affected and hence Elizabeth being unaffected. Now knowing the writers propensity for not thinking the tech through to the nth degree like some of us fans do, they probably haven't given it the same amount of thought that we have. The writers are also known to rewrite tech (and characters) to fit the plot (and explode hypothesizing fans brains, it's part of their evil plan dontcha know :D )

When you say simple barrier what do you mean? I see a field that is only active on it's boundary as a simple barrier requiring a lot less power than something that encompasses the entire volume of the field. Sorry to ask so many questions but I'm just trying to see how you are seeing the tech, words are a bugger give me a diagram any day!

Good luck with getting a straight answer out of JM, though bribing him with chocolates may be more beneficial than cookies.

Pegasus_SGA
September 24th, 2007, 07:37 AM
...an adapt you shall ;). One has to compromise in this world. You cannot have both. Shirtless Sheppard or answer to a huge plot hole ;).

McKay focused on the shield generator because in "Return part deux" he claimed that the only way to defeat them is to hit them at once. The problem arises here . In both Return part deux and First Strike the shield is raised gradually and not at the same time in the whole city . So our SGA borg drones were supposed to adapt but they didn't because the conditions for McKay's plan to work needed to be fulfilled ;). We found another Canyon ;).

Compromise is the key. :D And both shirtless shep and an explanation. I guess we'll see. :lol: My patience knows no bounds. :D

Yep, Mckay did say that. I think though there's a period of adjustment for the nanites, and it takes them several goes before they become immune, which is why they needed to be hit all at once. But in Lifeline, they only needed to bide their time so that they could get the ZPM, and didn't really have the power to generate an 'all at once approach' as I think initially the field was tied into the cloak on the jumper, hence the gradual approach. In The return part two, it was died in to all the shield generators and activated all at once, when they activated the star drive.. so, sorry hon, no canyon ther. :P


Not sure I'm following you, Elizabeth didn't go through the field when she was in the jumper. Didn't the field get generated around the outside of the jumper and then get extended outwards?

Elizabeth was in the jumper when the AR field was activated, then a few minutes later when the replicators got nearer she left the jumper to find Obertoth. But the field had to encompass the jumper and the tower for them to execute their plan, but yes it was extended outwards.


I'm curious too, how they meant the shield to work because I only assumed (yes a dangerous action ;) ) it was like a force field because of the way they showed it visually, only replicators touching the outer edge seemed to be affected and hence Elizabeth being unaffected. Now knowing the writers propensity for not thinking the tech through to the nth degree like some of us fans do, they probably haven't given it the same amount of thought that we have. The writers are also known to rewrite tech (and characters) to fit the plot (and explode hypothesizing fans brains, it's part of their evil plan dontcha know :D )

Never assume it makes an ass of u and me. :P Yeah that's probably what it was, a forcefield and if it was may not have affected her inside. But still for me, anything in or around a forcefield should protect you from the bad guys. Because it just wasn't a force field it was an AR forcefield, and that's what has me confused. :lol: Hehehe ATA shield anyone? :lol: And I love it, that it makes us think and hypothosize even if it gets just a lil frustaiting at times. :P


When you say simple barrier what do you mean? I see a field that is only active on it's boundary as a simple barrier requiring a lot less power than something that encompasses the entire volume of the field. Sorry to ask so many questions but I'm just trying to see how you are seeing the tech, words are a bugger give me a diagram any day!

Good luck with getting a straight answer out of JM, though bribing him with chocolates may be more beneficial than cookies.

This is what I love about debating, see how we all look at things differently. For me it wasn't so much a barrier, more as a field, protecting them from nanites. :lol: I'm so not a techie, I just like looking at the pretteh. ;)

How to explain so I don't confuse myself further. :lol: The anti replicator field not only creates a barrier, but inside the barrier there are intinsic properties that would still protect the person inside the field from them. I don't know the principles behind barriers... *wishes McKay was here* :p but for me, if you are surrounded by a field that protects you from the nanites, then wouldn't the inside of that field also contain those same properties that you have a continuous barier against them?

We saw the replicators make it through the barrier, but collapse after going through a few centimeters and then disintegrating. So for me, how I saw it, then there must have been something within the field to have caused that. Does that make sense?

I'm off out to get a RL for a few hours, if you don't get it, i'll try and think of a way to explain what I mean. :D

And i've already sent chocs once. I might be a bit different this time. :D

RealmOfX
September 24th, 2007, 08:11 AM
Compromise is the key. :D And both shirtless shep and an explanation. I guess we'll see. :lol: My patience knows no bounds. :D

Yep, Mckay did say that. I think though there's a period of adjustment for the nanites, and it takes them several goes before they become immune, which is why they needed to be hit all at once. But in Lifeline, they only needed to bide their time so that they could get the ZPM, and didn't really have the power to generate an 'all at once approach' as I think initially the field was tied into the cloak on the jumper, hence the gradual approach. In The return part two, it was died in to all the shield generators and activated all at once, when they activated the star drive.. so, sorry hon, no canyon ther. :P



Elizabeth was in the jumper when the AR field was activated, then a few minutes later when the replicators got nearer she left the jumper to find Obertoth. But the field had to encompass the jumper and the tower for them to execute their plan, but yes it was extended outwards.



Never assume it makes an ass of u and me. :P Yeah that's probably what it was, a forcefield and if it was may not have affected her inside. But still for me, anything in or around a forcefield should protect you from the bad guys. Because it just wasn't a force field it was an AR forcefield, and that's what has me confused. :lol: Hehehe ATA shield anyone? :lol: And I love it, that it makes us think and hypothosize even if it gets just a lil frustaiting at times. :P



This is what I love about debating, see how we all look at things differently. For me it wasn't so much a barrier, more as a field, protecting them from nanites. :lol: I'm so not a techie, I just like looking at the pretteh. ;)

How to explain so I don't confuse myself further. :lol: The anti replicator field not only creates a barrier, but inside the barrier there are intinsic properties that would still protect the person inside the field from them. I don't know the principles behind barriers... *wishes McKay was here* :p but for me, if you are surrounded by a field that protects you from the nanites, then wouldn't the inside of that field also contain those same properties that you have a continuous barier against them? (A)

We saw the replicators make it through the barrier, but collapse after going through a few centimeters and then disintegrating. So for me, how I saw it, then there must have been something within the field to have caused that. (B) Does that make sense?

I'm off out to get a RL for a few hours, if you don't get it, i'll try and think of a way to explain what I mean. :D

And i've already sent chocs once. I might be a bit different this time. :D

Thanks, I'm seeing where you are coming from now.

(A) No, not necessarily, an all encompassing field could possibly have astronomical power requirements and would be deemed impractical
(B) Momentum would also account for that effect

Skydiver
September 28th, 2007, 09:49 AM
reviving this thread in anticipation for tonight's airing of adrift

I invite ALL posters to refresh themselves with the rules for this thread

This thread is to discuss Weir in Adrift and Lifeline - episodes that some have already seen and that will be broadcast in the US in a couple of weeks.

A few groundrules

The topic is Weir, and it's a discussion thread, so pro and con posts are appropriate here. This is not a singularly pro or anti thread.

The topic is Weir, not Carter. In discussions, some aspects will be on topic, but this will not descend into a Carter vs Weir thread. Please take that elsewhere.

[/strike]Since spoilers are noted in the title and since this thread will eventually be moved into the episode discussion folder, spoiler space is not needed here, but please remember that it IS needed anywhere outside this thread[/strike]

spoilers for adrift need NOT be marked, but spoilers for lifeline DO need to be marked until after next friday's airing please

Let's have a nice discussion about Weir and the events of Adrift and Lifeline

Mattathias2.0
September 28th, 2007, 10:31 AM
Ok, maybe it is me - but when the field was activated, Weir was already inside the field. So, she would not be affected by that.

Now, we know prior to Weir leaving, the Replictors already made it through the field. We also know that Weir was able to retrieve information through the Replicator network. So possibly:
(a) Weir obtained the code through the Replictor network to save her own life,
(b) the field was disingaged sometime after the Replicators got through the field, or
(c) may be explained in another story.

technoextreme
September 29th, 2007, 06:47 AM
Ok, maybe it is me - but when the field was activated, Weir was already inside the field. So, she would not be affected by that.

Now, we know prior to Weir leaving, the Replictors already made it through the field. We also know that Weir was able to retrieve information through the Replicator network. So possibly:
(a) Weir obtained the code through the Replictor network to save her own life,
(b) the field was disingaged sometime after the Replicators got through the field, or
(c) may be explained in another story.
Wasn't Weir's nanites special in the fact that they were actually a part of her body or am I forgetting something from that episode?

Smallrus
September 29th, 2007, 11:02 PM
Am I the only one to think that the update to the Replicator's base code will give Weir a ton of power among them? They have been avoiding the Wraith for 10k years, and Weir has dealt with them pretty extensively for the last 3..

Will the writers make Weir into the lead military commander for the Wraith extermination? I think that'd be another really interesting twist: from diplomat to destroyer.

Integrabyte
September 30th, 2007, 05:24 AM
Am I the only one to think that the update to the Replicator's base code will give Weir a ton of power among them? They have been avoiding the Wraith for 10k years, and Weir has dealt with them pretty extensively for the last 3..

Will the writers make Weir into the lead military commander for the Wraith extermination? I think that'd be another really interesting twist: from diplomat to destroyer.


...if they want to finish the saga in 4 seasons they should do that. Doing that to Weir will cancel S5.

SGFerrit
September 30th, 2007, 05:49 AM
^^In your opinion...

I would like to see her become a very powerfull 'person' among the Asurans, and the expedition think she has gone evil, but in the end it turns out it was a rouse and she manages to play a huge part in the downfall of the Asurans.

Integrabyte
September 30th, 2007, 06:25 AM
^^In your opinion...

I would like to see her become a very powerfull 'person' among the Asurans, and the expedition think she has gone evil, but in the end it turns out it was a rouse and she manages to play a huge part in the downfall of the Asurans.


We've seen something like that before in SG1...Daniel Jackson, becomes a Prior with Merlin's help, fools Adria, and plays a huge part in the "downfall of the ORI". That is why I said we will not have a S5. A show will not be renewed if the writers take skeletons out of the closet ;).

Give Weir that story and make Oberoth ascend, like Adria, and that will be very original. Oberoth wants to destroy the Ancients why not do it in the ascended realm, once again, like Adria.

SGFerrit
September 30th, 2007, 06:43 AM
Hm, I didn't even think about that. But then again, shows how similar it is, in my eyes anyway. I followed s10 VERY closely, and was a huge fan. If I completely failed to see the similarites, that either means that:

a. The majority of people watching Atlantis won't see it as being that similar either, or won't care,

or...

b. I'm a total moron:D

Anyway, Daniel did that in 1 episode. I would like to see her remain in that state for, like, two seasons, in which she uses her status to help destroy the Wraith. And in the hundredth episode (season 5 finale) she puts her master plan into action where she does away with the Asurans once and for all. And then either goes back to Atlantis, or dies an extremely heroic death saving it.

Either way, she would actually be putting up a rouse, making the expiditon think the Asurans had convinced her to turn against them. Daniel on the other hand was very quick to let everyone know he wasn't a real prior, which I thought was a shame.

garhkal
September 30th, 2007, 02:10 PM
I thought about it too the moment the shield went up... I wrote it off as major plothole.

But it could be that the nanites they used were somehow imune to it due to some tampering by Rodney himself, yet the flaw in that being the link with the Asuran hive-mind. -> What you said...

Perhaps cause they were effectively dormant they had no 'bonds to be broken up' therefore were imune to the ARW


The problem arises here . In both Return part deux and First Strike the shield is raised gradually and not at the same time in the whole city . So our SGA borg drones were supposed to adapt but they didn't because the conditions for McKay's plan to work needed to be fulfilled . We found another Canyon

From what i saw it only kicked in once the entire shield was up... Don't know why though.

Falcon Horus
September 30th, 2007, 02:19 PM
Perhaps cause they were effectively dormant they had no 'bonds to be broken up' therefore were imune to the ARW

Mmmm... interesting.

FallenAngelII
October 1st, 2007, 10:49 AM
The episodes were awesome in that "epic feeling"-way and it was actually a pretty smart way to get rid of Torri (hi hi, ho ho, ha ha).

But them it all went horribly wrong there at the end. Ronon and John were only 6 feet from Elizabeth. Oberoth overpowered Elizabeth and managed to get the other Replicators moving again. John and Ronon had enough time to make a run for it and get out of there, but they didn't have the time to, oh, say, grab Elizabeth and run out of there with her?!

What, were they afraid she'd turn midway and kill them? Well, they could've just shot her if that happened. It'd be more merciful than let her be integrated into the Asuran collective.

francis
October 1st, 2007, 10:58 AM
on a slighty different note does any one think wier may return as a human form replicator just a thought
I hope so it would be so cool
also do you think the mid season episodes mortal coil and be all my sins rememberd will be because of the events in the end of season 4 episode 2

the dancer of spaz
October 1st, 2007, 01:20 PM
The episodes were awesome in that "epic feeling"-way and it was actually a pretty smart way to get rid of Torri (hi hi, ho ho, ha ha).

But them it all went horribly wrong there at the end. Ronon and John were only 6 feet from Elizabeth. Oberoth overpowered Elizabeth and managed to get the other Replicators moving again. John and Ronon had enough time to make a run for it and get out of there, but they didn't have the time to, oh, say, grab Elizabeth and run out of there with her?!

What, were they afraid she'd turn midway and kill them? Well, they could've just shot her if that happened. It'd be more merciful than let her be integrated into the Asuran collective.

Eh... I think the timing/pacing of the scene was off so that it looked like Liz just stood there. But really, had the guys tried to get her, they probably would've been killed. She's clearly the one Olberoth wanted. It seemed like they were willing to let the guys go if it meant she stayed.

Mitchell82
October 2nd, 2007, 10:43 AM
We've seen something like that before in SG1...Daniel Jackson, becomes a Prior with Merlin's help, fools Adria, and plays a huge part in the "downfall of the ORI". That is why I said we will not have a S5. A show will not be renewed if the writers take skeletons out of the closet ;).

Give Weir that story and make Oberoth ascend, like Adria, and that will be very original. Oberoth wants to destroy the Ancients why not do it in the ascended realm, once again, like Adria.

First that wasnt what cancelled SG-1 it was the stupid people at skiffy. I think that this this could be a good step for Weir. Also OT did anyone else realize that Oberoth was in MASH? I didn't untill someone pointed it out.

Integrabyte
October 2nd, 2007, 11:37 AM
First that wasnt what cancelled SG-1 it was the stupid people at skiffy. I think that this this could be a good step for Weir. Also OT did anyone else realize that Oberoth was in MASH? I didn't untill someone pointed it out.

SGA needs to count on the same people ...

Pegasus_SGA
October 2nd, 2007, 12:39 PM
We've seen something like that before in SG1...Daniel Jackson, becomes a Prior with Merlin's help, fools Adria, and plays a huge part in the "downfall of the ORI". That is why I said we will not have a S5. A show will not be renewed if the writers take skeletons out of the closet ;).

Give Weir that story and make Oberoth ascend, like Adria, and that will be very original. Oberoth wants to destroy the Ancients why not do it in the ascended realm, once again, like Adria.

Not that I ejoy disagreeing with you inte, but... (see you knew that was coming, didn't you? :P The difference if they did do that, would be that Weir wouldn't be playing at being part of the replicators, she'd be totally integrated into their midst. And she has a lot of knowledge, experience and memories at her disposal, so could be quite powerful aganst the team, Atlantis and Earth, if they decided to go this way. it would be an interesting storyline, and not like the Ori one as Daniel never fed anything to the Ori, but Weir could unknowingly or against her will? To see her pushed to her absolute limits could be quite interesting. :D besides, didn't Neam say they couldn't ascend?


The episodes were awesome in that "epic feeling"-way and it was actually a pretty smart way to get rid of Torri (hi hi, ho ho, ha ha).

But them it all went horribly wrong there at the end. Ronon and John were only 6 feet from Elizabeth. Oberoth overpowered Elizabeth and managed to get the other Replicators moving again. John and Ronon had enough time to make a run for it and get out of there, but they didn't have the time to, oh, say, grab Elizabeth and run out of there with her?!

What, were they afraid she'd turn midway and kill them? Well, they could've just shot her if that happened. It'd be more merciful than let her be integrated into the Asuran collective.

I saw it as they'd have to come back for her. They were trapped in hostile territory, Elizabeth was surrounded. Sure they had their weapons, but the replicators were immune, what were they supposed to do? Have a free for all? While i'm sure Ronon would have enjoyed the squirmish, they'd all have ended up captured, Atlantis would have been no more as they still had to deliver the ZPM and how could they just grab her? At least this gives them a fighting chance and next time they'll be better prepared. If they were captured, everyone loses. So from my perspective it was better to leave her and go back. Yeah they could have just shot her, but wouldn't the replicator nanites in her system healed her?

Integrabyte
October 2nd, 2007, 01:06 PM
Not that I ejoy disagreeing with you inte, but... (see you knew that was coming, didn't you? :P The difference if they did do that, would be that Weir wouldn't be playing at being part of the replicators, she'd be totally integrated into their midst. And she has a lot of knowledge, experience and memories at her disposal, so could be quite powerful aganst the team, Atlantis and Earth, if they decided to go this way. it would be an interesting storyline, and not like the Ori one as Daniel never fed anything to the Ori, but Weir could unknowingly or against her will? To see her pushed to her absolute limits could be quite interesting. :D besides, didn't Neam say they couldn't ascend?

Arguing with me is like breathing ;). I don't think you do not enjoy it :D. *Heee heee heee*. Back to our tomatoes now...Daniel was lucky with Merlin. Adria snooped around but Merlin was a sly devil so he managed to drive her bonkers :D. Niam did say they had problems ascending but you have to remember this is Stargate Atlantis. Sooner or later the Wraith will run out of food so they will have to ascend to decimate some ancients ;). Not the first time when the team is compromised. On top of that the Replicators know where our planet is. What do they want from Weir? Teyla's cooking recipes? I am sure Weir is not up to date anymore. Her only advantage is to take care of our humanity. I hope TPTB do some brainstorming because that old chestnut is getting...old :D.

...and now some cookies ;).

Keller performing the classic Nip/Tuck procedure

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5374/vlcsnap2647689gw4.png

Pegasus_SGA
October 2nd, 2007, 01:34 PM
Arguing with me is like breathing ;). I don't think you do not enjoy it :D. *Heee heee heee*. Back to our tomatoes now...Daniel was lucky with Merlin. Adria snooped around but Merlin was a sly devil so he managed to drive her bonkers :D. Niam did say they had problems ascending but you have to remember this is Stargate Atlantis. Sooner or later the Wraith will run out of food so they will have to ascend to decimate some ancients ;). Not the first time when the team is compromised. On top of that the Replicators know where our planet is. What do they want from Weir? Teyla's cooking recipes? I am sure Weir is not up to date anymore. Her only advantage is to take care of our humanity. I hope TPTB do some brainstorming because that old chestnut is getting...old :D.

...and now some cookies ;).

Keller performing the classic Nip/Tuck procedure

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5374/vlcsnap2647689gw4.png

:lol: So true. :D *but that's why you luff me* ;) :P :D

I like he drove her nuts, showed character! Hehehe. For me though, Elizabth is perfectly cabable of driving Oberoth nuts. She's shown me at times that she can be a tough cookie. I want to see her struggle and make things as difficult with Oberoth as possible. I want her to fight for survival and to see that inward and outward struggle as he tries to bring her into the collective. Whether we see that or not. But this ep does open a few doors for her. She needs to learn to be a bit more devious and sly with the replicators. I wonder if there's something in their programming to stop their ascension? I think they make more powerful enemies with Weir now in their midst. They should know everything she knows, which can be quite dangerous for Earth and Atlantis. I do (when they carry this through) want to see a different side to them apart from World domination. I want to see the malice and the reasons behind the 'revenge' thing. I know the reasons, but wondered if there was something else there? Hopefully now that they have gone after the Wraith, it will hopefully make things very interesting.

Nice cooky, but I don't know if I like that brand anymore or if I prefer the choc chip version better. *runs and hides*