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View Full Version : Why isn't there a Cloaking Device on Daedulas ?



MacGuyverThis
July 25th, 2007, 09:35 AM
Ok we know if you take a Cloaking device off a jumper and reroute it into Atlantis shield generator you have a cloak but know shields .So why haven't they done this to Daedulas or Apollo .

Shouldn't there be jumpers on the SGC ships by now .They can be used as shuttles for the ships .

Jyral Nadreth
July 25th, 2007, 09:42 AM
The jumpers are rare and are needed elsewhere most likely

garhkal
July 25th, 2007, 02:23 PM
Plus when they did it on atlantis, it was takiing one ancient device and working it into another ancient device. I am unsure if the shields/cloaks are reverse compatible with our tech.... unlike the zpms.

Wraith_Boy
July 25th, 2007, 03:33 PM
Plus when they did it on atlantis, it was takiing one ancient device and working it into another ancient device. I am unsure if the shields/cloaks are reverse compatible with our tech.... unlike the zpms.

I don't see why they wouldn't be!

They can integrate ZPM's into their 304's. They can integrate Asgard technology as well. Then they can interface human computers & power generators into Atlantis. They can repair damaged Puddle Jumpers. They can screw around with them to make a shield. As well as stripping a cloak from a PJ & interfacing it into Atlantis.

The simple reason that they don't want to give it a cloak is it would make their writing a lot harder. Think of it for a moment, they could have the Daedalus cloak, then sneak up beside an unsuspecting Hive ship. Then launch a few nukes right into it & take it out without them having any sort of warning. If it were more realistic then Daedalus would most likely have a cloak, that would be for me the number one priority after the jamming devices were originally enabled on the Hives.

I'd really have loved to see them address the issue at the time. They think they are on top for a few eps, but eventually the Wrfaith come up with a way to detect Lantean cloaks that are moving. Which wouldn't have impacted anything on Atlantis because it was stationary on the planet for S2, S3. As well as addressing a critical piece of technology & strategy that they would have most definitely tried if it were in real life. Just as quick, they take away the advantage by having the enemy discover a way around it, thus nullifying it just as quickly as the good guys got it. That's the sort of creative writing that I feel the show has been lacking up till now!

I would love to see them use it in S4, but can't see them using it now. 2 seasons after they first came up with the idea in 'The Siege III'.

2ndgenerationalteran
July 25th, 2007, 04:22 PM
The shield is replaced by the cloak, if they are hit they are pretty screwed. The wraith can't detect lantean cloaks, the time they got shot in the Rising was because they were hit when the darts fired blindly. The wraith likely used the same tactics on the transport vessels in Before i sleep, if they could detect a cloaked jumper then why was shepherd able to do his kamikaze nuke in the siege, and the various intel gathering missions in letters from pegasus? and if we cloaked a 304 and the wraith scrambled darts, theyd run into us, we'd take damage and give away our position.

Lord batchi ball
July 25th, 2007, 04:59 PM
The cloak takes alot of power and ZPMs are needed elsewhere they may be able to use a Asgard generator but the Wraith maybe able to dectect them just like the Ori did.

talyn2k1
July 26th, 2007, 12:03 AM
The cloak takes alot of power and ZPMs are needed elsewhere they may be able to use a Asgard generator but the Wraith maybe able to dectect them just like the Ori did.
You don't need a ZPM to power a cloak. If a cargo ship can extend their hyperspace field around an asteroid that is probably several thousand times it size, then I don't imagine the power requirement for sticking a PJ cloak on a 304 would be astronomical.
The production reason they haven't done it is stated a few posts up. The simple canon solution that I can think of is that Jumpers are rare. We don't have that many so to go around stripping them out to stick parts on our ships is probably not wise. Add to that the fact that cloaks didn't help the Ancients against the Wraith so what makes you think they would help us. We are still vastly outnumbered so I would personally say that having a visible fully shielded 304 is much better than having an invisible cloaked one.

Plus, as far as we know, weapons cannot be fired while a ship is cloaked. Although this may change as when cargo ships were first introduced they had to decloak to receive ring transmissions but in Beachhead Vala ringed over to a cloaked ship. Plus beaming didn't work through a cloak until The Shroud. For now, I`m going to believe that no weapons; energy or otherwise, can be used when a ship is cloaked.

2ndgenerationalteran
July 26th, 2007, 01:00 AM
Even if it could be launched i see no point of cloaking a ship then, all you could do is gain a first strike, after that you would give a way your position and you'd get blown out of the sky. If there are 3 hives they could cover enough area with their weapons fire to make the chances of hitting the cloaked 304 possible, which is not a good probablility when the target is a unshielded ship.

Vala_M
July 26th, 2007, 06:22 AM
You need a ZPM to power the cloaking field for something like the Daedalus, even Ha'tak's couldn't cloak, except that one time. It isn't because cloaking needs more power than the shield it's because without a ZPM or an Asgard generator, the Daedalus class ship shields never run at 100%, it's a long story but in "The Siege, pt 3" when the ZPM is removed from the Daedalus, the shield status monitor is at 75% and plus the whole 4 days vs. 18 days trip time meaning that the systems aren't at full power with the Naqahdah generators and the cloak isn't like the shield, it's all or none, the shield can be used until you reach 0% energy levels.

Vala,

Ripple in Space
July 26th, 2007, 07:30 AM
A cloak wouldn't have much use in a Battle Cruiser. In SG-1 the cloak was often used to sneak past more powerful ships, well Earth Ships are exponentially faster than Wraith ones, so no sneaking required.

As for re-con, the ships are fast enough to zoom by and obtain readings (stated in "First Strike"), and Daedalus shields are even powerful enough to stop in a cluster of a Wraith Armada for a few dozen seconds, and only take on minimal damage.

talyn2k1
July 26th, 2007, 07:53 AM
You need a ZPM to power the cloaking field for something like the Daedalus, even Ha'tak's couldn't cloak, except that one time. It isn't because cloaking needs more power than the shield it's because without a ZPM or an Asgard generator, the Daedalus class ship shields never run at 100%, it's a long story but in "The Siege, pt 3" when the ZPM is removed from the Daedalus, the shield status monitor is at 75% and plus the whole 4 days vs. 18 days trip time meaning that the systems aren't at full power with the Naqahdah generators and the cloak isn't like the shield, it's all or none, the shield can be used until you reach 0% energy levels.

Vala,

Has that ever actually been stated? For all we know, the cloak uses 25% less power than a shield so where a shield would be running at 75%, the cloak would be running at 100%. Without any sort of power usage information, we can`t say for sure whether a 304 needs a ZPM to use the cloak.
The Odyssey has a ZPM and cloak but it had the ZPM anyway before it was equipped with the cloak so we don't know if the ZPM is actually required or not.
You should also take into account that when the Daedalus' shield monitor was displaying 75%, they were under attack by the Wraith. We don't know how much of an affect the Wraith weapons had on the shield strength between the ZPM being removed and that screen being shown.

Buba uognarf
July 26th, 2007, 09:29 AM
Who's to say the Asgard shield generators are capable of projecting a cloaking field?

We know Atlantis's shield is arguably the most advanced and powerful shield there is likely without 'imperfections' which maybe be prone to less advanced shields. It's possible that using an inferior Asgard shield generator would have noticeable anomalies which could be detected giving away the position. Where as with atlantis due to the nature of the shield it is a perfect cloak.

That's my theory anyway.

2ndgenerationalteran
July 26th, 2007, 09:36 AM
The asgard have succesfully created a cloak before but it was never used on a ship (refference to Shades of Grey)

Buba uognarf
July 26th, 2007, 09:44 AM
The asgard have succesfully created a cloak before but it was never used on a ship (refference to Shades of Grey)

Yeah I know they have but it doesn't mean that they used a shield generator to do it.

For all we know asgard shields work in an entirely different way to ancient ones which stops them from being used as cloaks.

wise one
July 26th, 2007, 10:52 AM
i think it would give them a tiny bit more power to the earth ships, i think would rather see space battles then watch a ship invisible to sensors and destroying a ship without the other ship pulling up a fight...


and maybe there isnt a cloak for the daedalus is because they they want one??

talyn2k1
July 26th, 2007, 01:41 PM
Who's to say the Asgard shield generators are capable of projecting a cloaking field?

We know Atlantis's shield is arguably the most advanced and powerful shield there is likely without 'imperfections' which maybe be prone to less advanced shields. It's possible that using an inferior Asgard shield generator would have noticeable anomalies which could be detected giving away the position. Where as with atlantis due to the nature of the shield it is a perfect cloak.

That's my theory anyway.
Merlin/Prior Daniel equipped the Odyssey with a cloak presumably using its inferior Asgard shields.

And I don't think the Asgard cloak is a cloak in the traditional sense. I think its more like stealth technology which makes the ship invisible to sensors.

@2ndgenerationalteran: If you were referring to the personal cloak, that is hardly suitable as we're talking about ship cloaks here.

Maf.e.u
July 26th, 2007, 01:44 PM
Because there isn't, that's why. So far it hasn't really been called for, though one would be useful... yea.

Buba uognarf
July 26th, 2007, 01:45 PM
Merlin/Prior Daniel equipped the Odyssey with a cloak presumably using its inferior Asgard shields.

And I don't think the Asgard cloak is a cloak in the traditional sense. I think its more like stealth technology which makes the ship invisible to sensors. If you were referring to the personal cloak, that is hardly suitable as we're talking about ship cloaks here.

We don't know how 'Merlin' equiped the Odyssey but we know it hasn't been copied with the other BC-304's, presumably if it was a simple matter of converting the ships shield it would have been replicated with other ships.

2ndgenerationalteran
July 26th, 2007, 02:19 PM
Agreed, Carter at first glance didn't know how he did it or how to turn it off, they obviously learned how to switch it on or off but i don't think they know how to modify a shield to work like that.

JSPuddlejumper
July 26th, 2007, 04:31 PM
I have no idea why not: They need to get the Daedalus and Apollo cloak capable ASAP.

2ndgenerationalteran
July 26th, 2007, 05:03 PM
A cloak would only be able to allow a ship recon and a first strike hit and run attack. The 304 is much to large to be used for standard recon, and a hit and run attack could be disasterous if we cant switch to shields in the ammount of it is reguired to fire a pulse at a ship, even running away using sublight would be far too dangerous cloaked. Yes it would be a nice option, if we were unable to run and needed to hide, but we havent been in that situation before. I don't see that technology coming on board until we can reverse engineer it, if not we are just stripping our limited scout ships of their only defense.

MacGuyverThis
July 27th, 2007, 01:02 PM
Ok well first you don't need a Zpm to run a cloak .The Odessy has a cloak and it doesn't need a ZPM . I tdoesn't take much to run a claok .

The Cloak would give them first strike and recon .The first strike may even tip the side of a fight in their favor .It should be easy to take another cloaking device and put one on Daedulas .

Jyral Nadreth
July 27th, 2007, 01:10 PM
Oddessy's cloak was just a mod to the shields( the trick that McKay came up with atlantis) Jackson said that the ZPM helps

JSPuddlejumper
July 28th, 2007, 06:52 AM
Cloaks ships have such an advantage over any enemy.

If all the Earth ships are cloaked, sneak attack.

You can destroy 1 Ori ship before they literally knew what happened. Those toilet seats main particle weapons is the only thing that can seriously damage Asgard shields...Come in from behind and take it out.

Ori ships are massive and take some time to do 180 degree turn.

Heaven
July 28th, 2007, 07:21 AM
Oddessy's cloak was just a mod to the shields( the trick that McKay came up with atlantis) Jackson said that the ZPM helps
yep, we also know from Jacob that it takes a very stable power source to cloak large objects like motherships, thats why the goauld haven't been able to do it.

2ndgenerationalteran
July 28th, 2007, 03:01 PM
Cloaks ships have such an advantage over any enemy.

If all the Earth ships are cloaked, sneak attack.

You can destroy 1 Ori ship before they literally knew what happened. Those toilet seats main particle weapons is the only thing that can seriously damage Asgard shields...Come in from behind and take it out.

Ori ships are massive and take some time to do 180 degree turn.

The wraith and possibly Asuran weapons could seriously deplete the shields of the 304s as well. Constant hit and run attacks for us would be boring, a battle would then be waiting for the enemy ship to complete jumping out of hyperspace, we deactivate our cloak firing nukes and then run.

As for the Ori primary canon, it would be a serious blow if we could disable it. It would still keep the intensity of the space battles if we hit the primary canon with a missile, destroy it and the Ori motherships raises shields and they fight us with their pulse canons. Their primary canon doesn't fire in a straight line though they can aim with it, they can hit everything in a half sphere in front of the ship.

Jarnin
July 28th, 2007, 06:47 PM
yep, we also know from Jacob that it takes a very stable power source to cloak large objects like motherships, thats why the goauld haven't been able to do it.
What episode did Jacob say that?

bbal4163
July 28th, 2007, 07:13 PM
use the out of phase generator to make the perfect cloaking device. You can also fire things outside of the field while not losing the cloak. (people can walk outside the cloak in the series)

2ndgenerationalteran
July 28th, 2007, 07:19 PM
You mean replicate merlin's out of phase technology and apply it to ships? That would be cool, what would work great would be trans phase weapons, hitting things out of phase and in phase. But that would be very boring after the first space battle.

Jyral Nadreth
July 29th, 2007, 03:40 AM
The Jaffa could use Al'Kesh to hurt the Ori. Allow the Ori to take a planet while loosing a couple of Ha'tak so that the Ori don't smell a trap. When it lands and lowers its shields de-cloak a huge force of Al'Kesh and bomb the crap out of it targeting the shield generators and weapons. Loss's will be high but nowhere near the loss's of a Ha'tak fleet assault. If the ship gets off the ground into orbit bring in the Ha'taks to blockade it and hammer it.

Heaven
July 29th, 2007, 08:05 AM
What episode did Jacob say that?

I think it was the one where Apophis brought a cloaked fleet to the space mine field

Jimbo-DR
July 29th, 2007, 08:08 AM
I think it was the one where Apophis brought a cloaked fleet to the space mine field

I think he just said that the Goa'uld have never been able to cloak an entire fleet before, I don't remember there being a line about a stable power source.

./freelancer
July 29th, 2007, 08:14 AM
From the episode transcript (The Serpent's Venom):
JACOB: The Goa'Uld have never been able to cloak an entire mother ship before, let alone an entire fleet!

Jyral Nadreth
July 29th, 2007, 08:15 AM
Then again Goa'uld cloaks are more primative and require less power-me thinks that the other System Lords had trouble creating a stable cloak that could encompass a Ha'tak until Sokar/Apophis did

Heaven
July 29th, 2007, 08:24 AM
I think he just said that the Goa'uld have never been able to cloak an entire fleet before, I don't remember there being a line about a stable power source.

sorry my bad.

Jyral Nadreth
July 29th, 2007, 08:27 AM
One thing I don't understand-If Apophis died what happened to all of the Cloaking Ha'taks-which system lord has them. Imagine if Anubis got them and then enhanced them with Ancient tech as he did with other Ha'tak

Heaven
July 29th, 2007, 08:31 AM
we destroyed his fleet

Jyral Nadreth
July 29th, 2007, 08:34 AM
Anubis's or Apophis's are you refering to?
Anubis only sent a small fleet according to the Goa'uld reps in season 8 episode 1
Apophis still would have had ships defending teretory against other Goa'uld so he sent a small fleet to Vorash with him and his personal ship to lead the assault