Anti-Weir in Season 4-thread...

[jenks]

Does exactly what it says on the tin, negative Weir comments only. This a place to discuss her departure and why we're glad she's leaving

[vaberella]

I'm basically glad she's leaving, because I'm hoping that upon her confirmed departure I won't have to deal with the continuous harassment and mistreatment by some of her fans.

On a non-personal level, I'm bit saddened she's leaving because she has been here for three years and, to not make it to the end is pretty terrible. Yet, her leadership skills are nil, her negotiation skills are deplorable, and the amount of times she has put us in harms way shouldn't give her the right to leadership. I'm not saying she can not be on Atlantis, but she needs to be put in a nice little office where she doesn't say too much---just in case she gets us into trouble. Not to mention, because of her we got one too many enemies. Dangerous enemies who are not only trying to kill us, but also have killed those we've given refuge and is aiming to have Earth as destroyed.

At the point of massive enemies like that, and her lack of creating a Peggy militia to lessen our dependency on Earth---we need to become militarized to defend ourselves from these predators. I don't think a civilian is cut out to strategize an attack or retreat as she proved in First Strike, nor do I think she has the military know how to execute on your feet military thinking which is what we need from EXPERIENCED officials.

So no matter my personal feelings and anything else, she's not trained nor capable to thinking along protective procedures. Only the scientists and military can carefullly and clearly execute them with the minimum level of casualties (or I would hope so). This is again because of the amount of enemies we've gained under her leadership.

On a last note, I don't handle well leaders who ignore their second in command and military leader when he warns that it may cause a problem. She did that several times in S2 and I believe once in S3, not to mention S1. So on that level I wanted her gone, because she's basically ignoring counsel and making completely unilateral decisions which have harmed more than helped us. Especially those that have been warned as being harmful.

** Okay so I've said my peace. I can't maintain anti threads.

[jenks]

It's not so much that fact that she's a bad leader that bothers me, it 's that that she's a walking contradiction. One minute she's out of her depth overwhelmed by Atlantis and even the Stargate, next minute she's being a complete stuck up biatch to the SGC and military like she runs the show! Then she's supposed to be the one with high morals, the one who'd rather negotiate than fight, but then she turns around and orders someone to be tortured? There's something strange there.

Some people are sad that the writer are 'pulling a Ford', but I don't know why, the enzyme (imo) was the best thing to ever happen to Ford, granted he was a likeable character before, but he didn't add much to be honest, what happened to him added a whole other dimension. If they aren't going to do something crazy to Weir and actually decide what they want her charatcer to be then I hope we never see her again, season 4 should be a fresh start in my opinion.

[Davesg-43]

theres one good side to her leaving, a military leader is comanding atlantis, nad general carter will probaly take more drastic measures and militay solutions

[jenks]

I'm not a fan of Carter to be honest either, but I get the impression that she's just there for support, and the focus will be on the team, hopefully. She's a Colonel btw

[vaberella]

It's not so much that fact that she's a bad leader that bothers me, it 's that that she's a walking contradiction. One minute she's out of her depth overwhelmed by Atlantis and even the Stargate, next minute she's being a complete stuck up biatch to the SGC and military like she runs the show! Then she's supposed to be the one with high morals, the one who'd rather negotiate than fight, but then she turns around and orders someone to be tortured? There's something strange there.

That's the thing Jenks. The bipolar personality is what acted out in her decisions as leader, hence she's a horrible leader. I respected the writers approach to Weir's character, once again, dealing with a dillemma that she once thought she'd never face. That is good and would lead to character development.

But instead of defending a providing an example of her "pacifist" ideology---since as diplomat and her statement in Lost City as to "ending proliferation". Instead we get a character who goes completely against her beliefs. Of course people could say, oh the times are changing her. But it could also be said she's weak. She doesn't know what she is. She's incompetant, and she does it based on circumstantial evidence. Was it Kavanaugh who said "guilty until proven innocent"? I mean what was that!! It just showed her in an overall bad light, and I will be the first to say I didn't see that initially when watching the ep. It wasn't until it was brought to my attention and I considered the pros and cons, and read up on her role and what she was...I was in shock of what I was seeing on screen. It was ridiculous.

Some people are sad that the writer are 'pulling a Ford', but I don't know why, the enzyme (imo) was the best thing to ever happen to Ford, granted he was a likeable character before, but he didn't add much to be honest, what happened to him added a whole other dimension. If they aren't going to do something crazy to Weir and actually decide what they want her charatcer to be then I hope we never see her again, season 4 should be a fresh start in my opinion.

I totally agreed with you. I even said if she's recurring and at the time I expected about 8 or so episodes for her, I saw it as a good thing. I completely and totally agree with you about Ford, I felt the same and he was one of my faves, about 3rd in my fave list and I wasn't pleased by his removal but thinking on it, I saw the necessity. I also thought it would improve his character and felt it this would improve Weir's character. Even with four episodes I still do. This gives the writers a chance to regroup and reevaluate.

[jenks]

That's the thing Jenks. The bipolar personality is what acted out in her decisions as leader, hence she's a horrible leader. I respected the writers approach to Weir's character, once again, dealing with a dillemma that she once thought she'd never face. That is good and would lead to character development.

But instead of defending a providing an example of her "pacifist" ideology---since as diplomat and her statement in Lost City as to "ending proliferation". Instead we get a character who goes completely against her beliefs. Of course people could say, oh the times are changing her. But it could also be said she's weak. She doesn't know what she is. She's incompetant, and she does it based on circumstantial evidence. Was it Kavanaugh who said "guilty until proven innocent"? I mean what was that!! It just showed her in an overall bad light, and I will be the first to say I didn't see that initially when watching the ep. It wasn't until it was brought to my attention and I considered the pros and cons, and read up on her role and what she was...I was in shock of what I was seeing on screen. It was ridiculous.

I might even of been able to buy the 'progression' of Weir by losing her pacifist nature if she'd stayed more gung ho, but she doesn't, she seems to revert back to the diplomat whenever is suits the writers, like in First Strike...

That's reminded of something else contradictory about her actually, in 'The Real World' and 'The Return' she can't cope when she's removed from Atlantis, then in First strike they add that 'I may have to step down' line.. WTF?!

[vaberella]

I might even of been able to buy the 'progression' of Weir by losing her pacifist nature if she'd stayed more gung ho, but she doesn't, she seems to revert back to the diplomat whenever is suits the writers, like in First Strike...

That's reminded of something else contradictory about her actually, in 'The Real World' and 'The Return' she can't cope when she's removed from Atlantis, then in First strike they add that 'I may have to step down' line.. WTF?!

Do you know I didn't notice that?! I normally look at her leadership abilities than her own personal attitudes. I will say, I did notice her attitude in The Return. For a character, I had to give TH props, because if Weir was supposed to come across a bit loco---TH was able to carry that across. I thought Weir lost her mind and she has an extremely unhealthy relationship with Atlantis. The Real World showed that as well, she's in a real sort of Twilight Zone love with Atlantis and all things Ancient.

Then when you compare it to her comment in First Strike...there's no doubt about it, if Weir is not crazy, or bipolar, it's established that she is in dire need of psychiatric help. It is odd that she jumps from one idea to another. The most being her devotion to Atlantis and as you said, to say she's willing to step down and leaving Atlantis?! It really doesn't make sense.

Well I guess its when you compare this instance to other moments you can see that the writers just don't seem interested in the character of Weir. She is extremely wishy-washy.

***BRB, I need to do some delt work. SGA feeds my need to BB!

[elbo]

Glad that someone really make this thread, not because i agree with the ideea of having unison discussion, but this is the only to say someting about Weir around here, whithout having dozens of people starting to interpret your comment to the paranoic level, starting with the reasons for why you don't like Weir, your personal life, ending with the "tone" of your message, questioning even some sarcasting remarks or the attempts to bring the discussion on-topic and to lose the actor out of the ecuation.

Regarding Dr. Weir, i said in numerous occasion, that she lacks the skill both to be in charge of a scientific expedition like Atlantis, or to lead the fight against Wraith and later the Replicators. This argument can be supported by what we know about her character, prior to the expedition (5 language which can only be used on Earth, some teaching experience and few peace treaties sealed), but also by her action inside the expedition: for example we learn in "38 minutes" that she didn't know that this is the maximum time a wormhole can be mentained, and other scientific and military stuff like that which make her character seem out of place (even viewers know more stuff about science, whormhole phisics or military operations). I like those type of leaders which are in charge of something that they can handle, contribute to the story and the mission, know to take the necesarey decisons under the time constrains and have no problem with taking personal risks, like any othe member of the expedition, even military. How i didn't see in Weir, none of those leader requiments, i oviously had a problem with her character from the begining, even more when i notice that the TPTB, make her character more important and scene worthy than her contribution to "save the day" stuff.

Well giving the nature of first season and Atlantis being cut off from Earth, i accepted the situation as it was and Weir along with it, like a SGC/IOA unfortunate choise for the leadership position, because they had't all the facts at their dissposition. So imagine my surprise/dissapointment after "the Siedge" and "Intruder", when the people in charge consider that Weir is still the best choise for the job ... And from here, i see Weir changing from "a civilian forced in a situation" in someone who thinks that is above everyone and her job became her obsession.

Lack of respect and diplomacy regarding the military commanders. I always had the feeling that for example Caldwell is the most reasonable and diplomatic skilled person than Weir. I always see Shepp, Caldwell, Everett, etc. making the first step in easying the tensions they had with Weir. And Weir a very rigid person, and concern about people that may threaten her job, than the bigger issue. So Weir became more conflictual against our own people and institutions, and less capable in dealing with the external threats, either Wraith or Genii or later Replicators.

From here, i see a lot of bad decision she took and i'm not reffering to the big ones about the Alliance, retrovirus, Asurans, etc. But those decisions that don't came in mind at the first glance. For example in "Common Ground" she spend 9 hours incapable of making a decision from only 2 possible: "exchanging Radim for Sheppard" or "trust him and let him go to find the planet gate address". Keeping him in Atlantis cannot have bringed nothing good, so while she make up her mind Sheppard loose like 50-60 years, glad that the Wraith saved the day. It seem minor at the end, the happy end, but we can observe that "the dangerous nature of Atlantis expedition" and the situations that appear, require someone in charge to do the right thing under the circumstances.

Second, what is ovious, Weir is not part of off-word teams or situations. She is not in the position to make first contact with races and species, so her so-called diplomatic skills are not in a position to be used so why keep her there at all? Only to be seen? It is not enough. Everyone should bring something of use to the mission other than prejudicies against military or playing teacher act. Did anyonelse find familiar the end of "Trinity" with Weir screaming to Rodney to hear all the command center : "You destroy 3/4 of a solar system"?

[elbo]

There are several occasions in which Weir herself aknowledge that she is not the best person for this situation "These are not the type of decision i expected to make in this expeditions", or "I'm here only because IOA doesn't want militarisation", but is FINE with it, even wants more control and to be included in Earth's defence decisions. Sorry, this i can't understand. If a person is aware that she is not the most fortunate choice for the job and this unfortunate choise could lead to catastrophic mistakes and put bilions of lifes in danger, why not resign? At least present her resignation. But quite the opposite, with every episode, i felt a progressive desire to have more control more decision, the hostility against military is increasing, and even IOA and Woolsey, for questioning some of her decisions.

Her character is becaming increasingly arrogant and lead to the extreme states from "First Strike", when even Sheppard doesn't understand her strong opposition, to a mission that COULD be a remote danger for Atlantis, but is certanly a necesity for Earth's defence.

Regarding S4, i hope to see her less possible. I hope for "Lifeline" to not be something regarding her coma and inside mind stuff. 4 episodes with her appeareance seem, the worst news about SGA S4 so far. But as far as she is not in charge of anything and part of any decision making process, i think i can deal with her presence more lightly.

[jenks]

The inconsistency just really irritates me, she was a like a deer in the headlights in season 1, then in season two she was a complete biatch to the IOA and military, then by season 4 she's back to being a deer

[ciannwn]

My reply is on similar lines to one I made in another topic.

Weir made bad decisions and created enemies etc. for plot purposes. If she'd been super-leader things would have been far less hectic in the Pegasus galaxy so SGA wouldn't have much in the way of action adventuring.

She was inconsistent because the writers made her that way. Once she's gone, though, there will still be a need for people to make bad decisions/enemies in order to create new situations and stories. Maybe the writers will spread it around in the future - in one story Rodney makes enemies, in another story Carter doesn't make a very good decision and so on and so forth.

I'm against the way the writers made Weir turn out because they had her making most of the bad decisions. Let's hope that people who are glad to see the back of her won't end up annoyed because one of the other characters takes her place where creating most of the disasters is concerned.

[jenks]

SG-1 had many adventures and made many enemies without someone making bad decisions all the time. Not that this bothers me anyway, the fact that she made bad decisions was good in my opinion, but the fact that the character contradicted herself and the fact that there weren't really any response to her mistakes from the other characters, no angst etc, is what makes her character a waste of space at this point.

[ciannwn]

SG-1 had many adventures and made many enemies without someone making bad decisions all the time.

That, again, was due to the writers. Let's hope they can arrange things so that SGA plots don't require so many bad decisions on the part of somebody. It would be very ironic if Carter ended up as a terrible leader because stories were written so she had to keep putting her foot in it.

but the fact that the character contradicted herself

She could only do and say what was in the scripts so it was the writers who made her behave like several different characters rolled into one. Hopefully the writers will now take a different route for plot purposes otherwise we might end up with one of the other characters suddenly becoming contradictory in order to take Weir's place as a walking disaster.

and the fact that there weren't really any response to her mistakes from the other characters, no angst etc, is what makes her character a waste of space at this point.

The other characters' responses and angst to any situations only lasted until the end of a story. Their forgetting what Weir got them into by the start of next week or whatever was nothing unusual.

[marty2006]

Wasnt there a thread like this closed last week.