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therealdb
July 3rd, 2007, 02:21 AM
we know that we have the ability to beam huge objects (the ep where baal put naquadah in a building and was gonna blow it up, but they beamed it into space)

so, with that, it shouldnt be too hard to beam something, like a 304 or anything else bigger from one place to another

now, if in Pegasus somewhere, humans installed a sensor system so that a 304 could use it to beam another object from MW to Pegasus, such as another 304 through the gate and into the planets atmosphere

if a 304 cant do it, then surely a beaming "station" somewhere, that had the capacity for something as big as a 304.

JoNzA
July 3rd, 2007, 02:26 AM
Through the gate sounds possible
but I think it would be too risky

IcyNeko
July 3rd, 2007, 07:36 AM
YOU CAN'T BEAM THROUGH A GATE. HOW MANY DAMNED TIMES DOES THIS HAVE TO BE BROUGHT UP? Christ. Good job starting another repeat thread that has been discussed (one too many times).

Though beaming a 304, which is considerably larger than the building, anywhere strikes me as a "much too power-consuming" to be applicable. I'm pretty sure that SOMEWHERE IN THERE, the starship's beaming computer won't be able to store THAT MUCH data during the transfer. Buildings are relatively simple. Starships have thousands of additional components that MUST be accoutned for.

In star trek, they limited this by having a finite-sized pattern buffer. Once you filled it up, yuo can't beam any more. I'm pretty sure Stargate has a similar limit.

And yeah, genius, beaming a starship around is highly impractical. If it was so easy as you say, why don't the asgard simply have a BEAMING STATION?

As for beaming a 304 into the planet's atmosphere... that's brilliant. It really is. Do you know why starships need to have an entry vector when they enter atmosphere? It's so they don't get pulled down by the gravity of the planet and destroyed. So for a ship to magically appear in teh atmosphere of the planet would make it incapable of firing enough retrothrust to counter the gravity field (not to mention the sudden stress introduced by trying to counter gravity would tear the ship apart). So unless there is a plan to get off the planet quickly, only a moron would suggest something like this. They did it in Battlestar Galactica, but what happened was that Admiral Adama jumped the ship in atmo, launched fighters, then immediately jumped OUT. Even in taht situation, Galactica suffered extreme damage and was nearly destroyed. BRILLIANT IDEA THEREALDB. WE NEED MORE BROKEN SHIPS.

You also can't lock onto a subject that is in motion, so you wouldn't be able to start a starship moving, and then beam them anywhere and hope that they continue with the same velocity. The beaming sensors have to be able to lock on an object, and to have a MASSIVE STARSHIP MOVING would be impossible to track.

jds1982
July 3rd, 2007, 07:40 AM
Ah excellent my morning cup of rage^.

IcyNeko
July 3rd, 2007, 07:41 AM
The best part of waking up. :D

s09119
July 3rd, 2007, 08:52 AM
YOU CAN'T BEAM THROUGH A GATE. HOW MANY DAMNED TIMES DOES THIS HAVE TO BE BROUGHT UP? Christ. Good job starting another repeat thread that has been discussed (one too many times).

Though beaming a 304, which is considerably larger than the building, anywhere strikes me as a "much too power-consuming" to be applicable. I'm pretty sure that SOMEWHERE IN THERE, the starship's beaming computer won't be able to store THAT MUCH data during the transfer. Buildings are relatively simple. Starships have thousands of additional components that MUST be accoutned for.

In star trek, they limited this by having a finite-sized pattern buffer. Once you filled it up, yuo can't beam any more. I'm pretty sure Stargate has a similar limit.

And yeah, genius, beaming a starship around is highly impractical. If it was so easy as you say, why don't the asgard simply have a BEAMING STATION?

As for beaming a 304 into the planet's atmosphere... that's brilliant. It really is. Do you know why starships need to have an entry vector when they enter atmosphere? It's so they don't get pulled down by the gravity of the planet and destroyed. So for a ship to magically appear in teh atmosphere of the planet would make it incapable of firing enough retrothrust to counter the gravity field (not to mention the sudden stress introduced by trying to counter gravity would tear the ship apart). So unless there is a plan to get off the planet quickly, only a moron would suggest something like this. They did it in Battlestar Galactica, but what happened was that Admiral Adama jumped the ship in atmo, launched fighters, then immediately jumped OUT. Even in taht situation, Galactica suffered extreme damage and was nearly destroyed. BRILLIANT IDEA THEREALDB. WE NEED MORE BROKEN SHIPS.

You also can't lock onto a subject that is in motion, so you wouldn't be able to start a starship moving, and then beam them anywhere and hope that they continue with the same velocity. The beaming sensors have to be able to lock on an object, and to have a MASSIVE STARSHIP MOVING would be impossible to track.

Actually, we don't know if you can lock onto a moving object or not. We know that you can lock onto PEOPLE while moving, but we've never heard anything for or against larger objects in motion. You can't make that claim.

Also, the ST universe is NOT the SG universe. The buffer systems could be wildly different: you don't know. As for the Asgard not having beaming stations, their hyperdrives were fast enough to make it a moot point, and they were probably too busy with the Replicators to care.

So please, analyze your points before screaming at an innocent poster? Thanks.

IcyNeko
July 3rd, 2007, 08:59 AM
Doesn't matter what system you use, you still need some sort of buffer system to facilitate the transfer of an object from point A to point B. This is because the object isn't instantaneously tansferred. It has to pass THROUGH something.

As for locking onto a moving object, the larger it is, the harder it becomes to lock ONTO it, because you have to freeze that instant of movement. It's almost like photography. You can run the risk of missing something if the object is too big or is moving too quickly. They call it sensor resolution in SG I believe. :P

And unless you have a hard time reading my post, I did analyze it pretty thoroughly.

Morrolan
July 3rd, 2007, 09:22 AM
Doesn't matter what system you use, you still need some sort of buffer system to facilitate the transfer of an object from point A to point B. This is because the object isn't instantaneously tansferred. It has to pass THROUGH something.

As for locking onto a moving object, the larger it is, the harder it becomes to lock ONTO it, because you have to freeze that instant of movement. It's almost like photography. You can run the risk of missing something if the object is too big or is moving too quickly. They call it sensor resolution in SG I believe. :P

And unless you have a hard time reading my post, I did analyze it pretty thoroughly.

Wow. A little over the top, but no argument with your analysis.

s09119
July 3rd, 2007, 10:34 AM
Doesn't matter what system you use, you still need some sort of buffer system to facilitate the transfer of an object from point A to point B. This is because the object isn't instantaneously tansferred. It has to pass THROUGH something.

As for locking onto a moving object, the larger it is, the harder it becomes to lock ONTO it, because you have to freeze that instant of movement. It's almost like photography. You can run the risk of missing something if the object is too big or is moving too quickly. They call it sensor resolution in SG I believe. :P

And unless you have a hard time reading my post, I did analyze it pretty thoroughly.


Now THAT was thorough, I'll give you that.

As for the buffer argument, we don't know how much an Asgard beaming buffer can hold. We know it could transport a building with no visible loss of power or great strain on the ship itself, so I'd say beaming another vessel is feasible.

Also, Asgard sensors have been able to lock onto things a MASSIVE distance away (The Prometheus beamed a building from Earth to the moon, after all). So it stands to reason they'd be able to lock onto moving things fairly easily, as well. Then again, neither of us have any canon evidence to back these things up, so it's purely speculative.

wise one
July 3rd, 2007, 10:45 AM
well the buffer couldnt take that much data if u try 'BEAM' a freakin 304

i dont believe you can beam through a stargate cos there no point for the beam to locate to

if you had those ancient obelisk devices that can beam entire people like in quest part 2

but fiddle around with it to transport a 304 than maybe

IcyNeko
July 3rd, 2007, 10:51 AM
Now THAT was thorough, I'll give you that.

As for the buffer argument, we don't know how much an Asgard beaming buffer can hold. We know it could transport a building with no visible loss of power or great strain on the ship itself, so I'd say beaming another vessel is feasible.

Also, Asgard sensors have been able to lock onto things a MASSIVE distance away (The Prometheus beamed a building from Earth to the moon, after all). So it stands to reason they'd be able to lock onto moving things fairly easily, as well. Then again, neither of us have any canon evidence to back these things up, so it's purely speculative.

Here's my point. The 304's scanners may be good enough to track a small object in motion (JOhn Sheppard in a 302 moving away), but a large, moving starship is a totally different matter. Sensor resolution needed to make sure the whole ship stays intact would be ridiculously taxing.

And yeah, they beamed a building into space. The building wasn't moving at a pace that the ship couldn't match (effectively making the speed 0). I'm talking about large, moving objects.

And why would the 304 have to be moving? If it wasn't moving when it reappeared on the planet's atmosphere, it would drop like a rock and systems would immediately fail to boot up.

s09119
July 3rd, 2007, 10:57 AM
Here's my point. The 304's scanners may be good enough to track a small object in motion (JOhn Sheppard in a 302 moving away), but a large, moving starship is a totally different matter. Sensor resolution needed to make sure the whole ship stays intact would be ridiculously taxing.

And yeah, they beamed a building into space. The building wasn't moving at a pace that the ship couldn't match (effectively making the speed 0). I'm talking about large, moving objects.

And why would the 304 have to be moving? If it wasn't moving when it reappeared on the planet's atmosphere, it would drop like a rock and systems would immediately fail to boot up.

Sensor resolution... alot of it... So what? We're talking about ASGARD sensors here, not shoddy Earth-made ones. Given a few thousand years of technological advancement over us, I'm confident they could do it pretty easily. Especially if they were using the Odyssey's state-of-the-art sensors.

They could beam it into a very high orbit, or a little farther out into space. That way, it would have plenty of time to get its engines online, days, weeks, or even months. Though I seriously doubt it would take that long :)

General David Niemi
July 3rd, 2007, 11:03 AM
well the buffer couldnt take that much data if u try 'BEAM' a freakin 304

i dont believe you can beam through a stargate cos there no point for the beam to locate to

if you had those ancient obelisk devices that can beam entire people like in quest part 2

but fiddle around with it to transport a 304 than maybe

Ummmm... I'm thinking you could beam through the gate because if transfer the 302's matrix from a buffer on one side to another one buffer one another plant then just rematiralize it. That would be if they had star trek transporters. Now Stargate beamers. If an asguard was beaming up a 302 for whatever reason and up put a gate in between and have another ship on top another gate in line to catch the 302 it could work. Same as the go'uld ring when they escape sokar's hell with Teal'c intercepting the transport beam!



YOU CAN'T BEAM THROUGH A GATE. HOW MANY DAMNED TIMES DOES THIS HAVE TO BE BROUGHT UP? Christ. Good job starting another repeat thread that has been discussed (one too many times).

Though beaming a 304, which is considerably larger than the building, anywhere strikes me as a "much too power-consuming" to be applicable. I'm pretty sure that SOMEWHERE IN THERE, the starship's beaming computer won't be able to store THAT MUCH data during the transfer. Buildings are relatively simple. Starships have thousands of additional components that MUST be accoutned for.

In star trek, they limited this by having a finite-sized pattern buffer. Once you filled it up, yuo can't beam any more. I'm pretty sure Stargate has a similar limit.

And yeah, genius, beaming a starship around is highly impractical. If it was so easy as you say, why don't the asgard simply have a BEAMING STATION?

As for beaming a 304 into the planet's atmosphere... that's brilliant. It really is. Do you know why starships need to have an entry vector when they enter atmosphere? It's so they don't get pulled down by the gravity of the planet and destroyed. So for a ship to magically appear in teh atmosphere of the planet would make it incapable of firing enough retrothrust to counter the gravity field (not to mention the sudden stress introduced by trying to counter gravity would tear the ship apart). So unless there is a plan to get off the planet quickly, only a moron would suggest something like this. They did it in Battlestar Galactica, but what happened was that Admiral Adama jumped the ship in atmo, launched fighters, then immediately jumped OUT. Even in taht situation, Galactica suffered extreme damage and was nearly destroyed. BRILLIANT IDEA THEREALDB. WE NEED MORE BROKEN SHIPS.

You also can't lock onto a subject that is in motion, so you wouldn't be able to start a starship moving, and then beam them anywhere and hope that they continue with the same velocity. The beaming sensors have to be able to lock on an object, and to have a MASSIVE STARSHIP MOVING would be impossible to track.

And you! I'm glad you stated your opinion but that was a bit harsh ;)

Thank you for your time everybody

IcyNeko
July 3rd, 2007, 11:21 AM
Sensor resolution... alot of it... So what? We're talking about ASGARD sensors here, not shoddy Earth-made ones. Given a few thousand years of technological advancement over us, I'm confident they could do it pretty easily. Especially if they were using the Odyssey's state-of-the-art sensors.

They could beam it into a very high orbit, or a little farther out into space. That way, it would have plenty of time to get its engines online, days, weeks, or even months. Though I seriously doubt it would take that long :)

Even with their fancy advanced sensors aboard the O'Neill, they didn't opt to BEAM the O'Neill to Ida. They still towed her. That should say something. :P

s09119
July 3rd, 2007, 11:25 AM
Even with their fancy advanced sensors aboard the O'Neill, they didn't opt to BEAM the O'Neill to Ida. They still towed her. That should say something. :P

What are you talking about... I've never seen an O'Neill tow an O'Neill...

LanteanAndy
July 3rd, 2007, 11:39 AM
The Asgard. These are people who can download a persons entire consciousness onto a computer. How much data do you think that is? And I think (not to sure if this is right) Thor mentions that a lot of the Asgard don't actually have a physical form during the move to their new planet. If they can store peoples minds, then they can probably build a Beaming Buffer big enough to handle a 304.....

General David Niemi
July 3rd, 2007, 11:42 AM
The Asgard. These are people who can download a persons entire consciousness onto a computer. How much data do you think that is? And I think (not to sure if this is right) Thor mentions that a lot of the Asgard don't actually have a physical form during the move to their new planet. If they can store peoples minds, then they can probably build a Beaming Buffer big enough to handle a 304.....

Yes! :jack_new_anime07: Thank you Mr Lanty Andy! ;) And Welcome to the forum! :)

Zed-P-Ems rule! ZPMs don't!

IcyNeko
July 3rd, 2007, 11:51 AM
I meant 304 on one of the "O'Neill"s. The Asgard could have done exactly what you're proposing on multiple instances, but never did.

And for the record, recording synaptic activity is significantly smaller than a ship. I didn't need to tell you this, as I'm sure you all have rulers.

The Asgard didn't try it. Their mastery far outdoes any of you. Put 1+1 together.

LanteanAndy
July 3rd, 2007, 11:57 AM
I meant 304 on one of the "O'Neill"s. The Asgard could have done exactly what you're proposing on multiple instances, but never did.

And for the record, recording synaptic activity is significantly smaller than a ship. I didn't need to tell you this, as I'm sure you all have rulers.

The Asgard didn't try it. Their mastery far outdoes any of you. Put 1+1 together.

Maybe there are other problems involved. The difference between beaming an SG team and a ship the size of the Daedalus on power reserves is obvious. Perhaps it would take to much power for a ship to do? Now... where did I put those Zed-P-Ms?!?!

s09119
July 3rd, 2007, 12:00 PM
I meant 304 on one of the "O'Neill"s. The Asgard could have done exactly what you're proposing on multiple instances, but never did.

And for the record, recording synaptic activity is significantly smaller than a ship. I didn't need to tell you this, as I'm sure you all have rulers.

The Asgard didn't try it. Their mastery far outdoes any of you. Put 1+1 together.

They also never towed a 304...

We're talking about beaming through a gate anyway, not across a galaxy.

And how do you know storing the synaptic activity of a few thousand Asgard is easier than storing the pattern of a ship? The brain can fire off synapses pretty fast, after all.

And we don't know the Asgard never tried it. Maybe they just didn't bother because it they'd have to have a ship on the recieving end to beam another ship through. And with the war with the Replicators going on, they probably could not spare 2 ships to try.

IcyNeko
July 3rd, 2007, 12:00 PM
I prefer the "it can't be done" policy. Because then it's a lot less tacky. Ships weren't meant to go through gates or be teleported around. Oh right, the Gate also has a buffer limit based on crystal storage size. I doubt the Ancients built the Gate to store something the size of the 304's.

So yet again. No.

IcyNeko
July 3rd, 2007, 12:02 PM
They also never towed a 304...

We're talking about beaming through a gate anyway, not across a galaxy.

And how do you know storing the synaptic activity of a few thousand Asgard is easier than storing the pattern of a ship? The brain can fire off synapses pretty fast, after all.

And we don't know the Asgard never tried it. Maybe they just didn't bother because it they'd have to have a ship on the recieving end to beam another ship through. And with the war with the Replicators going on, they probably could not spare 2 ships to try.

No, but they've towed the Prometheus on various occasions. By your logic, they could have just beamed the ship into the memory core and dumped them off later.

And as for sensors picking up synaptic activity.. as fast firing as synapses are, it's still chemical reactions and interactions on the molecular level. Ships have the same thing. The difference being a SHIP is several hundred times larger than a human, and far more complex.

LanteanAndy
July 3rd, 2007, 12:10 PM
I prefer the "it can't be done" policy. Because then it's a lot less tacky. Ships weren't meant to go through gates or be teleported around. Oh right, the Gate also has a buffer limit based on crystal storage size. I doubt the Ancients built the Gate to store something the size of the 304's.

So yet again. No.

Muchos excellent argument! Sod it, let's build a supergate and save us the hassle!!

Hypochondriac
July 3rd, 2007, 12:15 PM
YOU CAN'T BEAM THROUGH A GATE. HOW MANY DAMNED TIMES DOES THIS HAVE TO BE BROUGHT UP?

So what happened in "The Quest?" Didn't they beam through a gate?

IcyNeko
July 3rd, 2007, 12:53 PM
Not using Asgard beams. That is the premise of this discussion is using asgard tech beams to beam through the gate.

s09119
July 3rd, 2007, 03:46 PM
No, but they've towed the Prometheus on various occasions. By your logic, they could have just beamed the ship into the memory core and dumped them off later.

And as for sensors picking up synaptic activity.. as fast firing as synapses are, it's still chemical reactions and interactions on the molecular level. Ships have the same thing. The difference being a SHIP is several hundred times larger than a human, and far more complex.

They towed it once. And even then, Thor knew they'd have enough time to reach Othalla before the Replicators could do any more harm than they already had. Besides, can you see Jack or Teal'c being okay with the idea of being beamed into a BUFFER for a while?

So what? We don't know the limitations of an Asgard beam buffer yet. For all we know, it's capable of storing the patterns of entire space stations.

General David Niemi
July 3rd, 2007, 03:57 PM
I prefer the "it can't be done" policy. Because then it's a lot less tacky. Ships weren't meant to go through gates or be teleported around. Oh right, the Gate also has a buffer limit based on crystal storage size. I doubt the Ancients built the Gate to store something the size of the 304's.

So yet again. No.

What are you talking about?! Ummm... Puddle Jumpers! A lot of people! Hello!?

General David Niemi
July 3rd, 2007, 04:00 PM
Maybe there are other problems involved. The difference between beaming an SG team and a ship the size of the Daedalus on power reserves is obvious. Perhaps it would take to much power for a ship to do? Now... where did I put those Zed-P-Ms?!?!

Okay! Can we get this guy a medal? :)

IcyNeko
July 4th, 2007, 10:19 AM
What are you talking about?! Ummm... Puddle Jumpers! A lot of people! Hello!?

Yes, because a puddle jumper is the same as a starship that holds 150 - 250 people. Keep talking. I'd love to hear more.

General David Niemi
July 4th, 2007, 01:13 PM
Yes, because a puddle jumper is the same as a starship that holds 150 - 250 people. Keep talking. I'd love to hear more.

Sorry I miss read it. Don't need to be a bum about it. Whatever.

LanteanAndy
July 5th, 2007, 03:22 AM
Okay! Can we get this guy a medal? :)

All medals would be received with smiles all round!


Yes, because a puddle jumper is the same as a starship that holds 150 - 250 people. Keep talking. I'd love to hear more.

Can we please discuss this topic in a semi-adult manner? Let's face it, we've got absolutley no idea whether it can be done at all, but I figure that it, with some modifications, could be done! Granted, the buffer to Beam an entire 304 would be pretty damn large, but given the fact that the Asgard managed to put their entire History, Science and other stuff on one computer inside the Odyssey.

If the Ancients can build a network of rings that can open stable wormholes through subspace through which physical patterns can be transported who's to say the Asgard can't beam a large object?

Jimbo-DR
July 5th, 2007, 08:13 AM
All medals would be received with smiles all round!



Can we please discuss this topic in a semi-adult manner? Let's face it, we've got absolutley no idea whether it can be done at all, but I figure that it, with some modifications, could be done! Granted, the buffer to Beam an entire 304 would be pretty damn large, but given the fact that the Asgard managed to put their entire History, Science and other stuff on one computer inside the Odyssey.

If the Ancients can build a network of rings that can open stable wormholes through subspace through which physical patterns can be transported who's to say the Asgard can't beam a large object?


How are any of those at all relevant even in a tiny little way? Humanity right now has the ability to store TONS of information in a single computer, you probably don't even realize just how much information is stored on your home computer right now. The Asgard are thousands of years ahead of us, and they use a form of crystal static memory, so I'm sure its relatively easy to store data efficiently. But that is COMPLETELY irrelevant to being able to beam an entire ship. Your talking about dematerializing something, and storing every little bit of subatomic matter in a computer, and then rematerializing a huge distance away. Your not just storing electrical ones and zero's, you have to somehow store the subatomic matter that comprises whatever you're "beaming" and exactly how it has to be put back together. That is vastly more complicated than storing one's and zero's.

YodaMate
July 5th, 2007, 10:47 PM
YOU CAN'T BEAM THROUGH A GATE. HOW MANY DAMNED TIMES DOES THIS HAVE TO BE BROUGHT UP? Christ. Good job starting another repeat thread that has been discussed (one too many times).

Though beaming a 304, which is considerably larger than the building, anywhere strikes me as a "much too power-consuming" to be applicable. I'm pretty sure that SOMEWHERE IN THERE, the starship's beaming computer won't be able to store THAT MUCH data during the transfer. Buildings are relatively simple. Starships have thousands of additional components that MUST be accoutned for.

And yeah, genius, beaming a starship around is highly impractical. If it was so easy as you say, why don't the asgard simply have a BEAMING STATION?

As for beaming a 304 into the planet's atmosphere... that's brilliant. It really is. Do you know why starships need to have an entry vector when they enter atmosphere? It's so they don't get pulled down by the gravity of the planet and destroyed.... BRILLIANT IDEA THEREALDB. WE NEED MORE BROKEN SHIPS.

You also can't lock onto a subject that is in motion, so you wouldn't be able to start a starship moving, and then beam them anywhere and hope that they continue with the same velocity. The beaming sensors have to be able to lock on an object, and to have a MASSIVE STARSHIP MOVING would be impossible to track.

Beaming through the gate is possible. The Ancients (or Merlin at least) can do it. So you really needed to shout that Asgard beaming through gates is impossible. We've never seen them do it, but does that mean they can't ?

We know the Asgard have been actively researching an Ancient repository of knowledge for millennia, so the beams were possibly based on Ancient knowledge, although the Asgard clearly have their own style. The Ancient technology capable of Gate-beaming was located in an obelisk. As you will recall in Thor's Hammer, Thor's Chariot and Red Sky, SG-1 was transported around by Asgard obelisks.

Thus, considering the Ancients can do it, the Asgard have been researching Ancients tech and produced items that look like the Ancient tech used for Gate-beaming, surely one must conclude that it's possible the Asgard could do it. So, why don't they ? And importantly, could Earth duplicate the feat ?

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Power requirements and buffer requirements make it too impractical for their regular use. The Asgard hyperdrives can get their ships around fast enough already.

In the situation where they towed Prommie, it was also impractical for numerous reasons ; SG-1 had to get ready for the mission, which they couldn't if they and/or their gear were stored in a buffer. Anyway, they couldn't be beamed straight to Othalla, even if the Gate there was intact, because it was a hostile situation and located in a time dilation field.

On the return journey, they couldn't be beamed to Earth, cause Prommie won't fit in the Gate room, and they didn't have a working hyperdrive at the time so they couldn't be beamed to, say, Abydos and fly the rest of the way.

As for your other problems with the idea ; a ship is complex, lots of little parts. But a human body is also incredibly complex with even tinier parts and they get beamed around routinely. It's a matter of how good the sensors are. Asgard sensors are obviously very good.

True, if you beamed a ship into the atmosphere, it would drop like a rock. Unless you beamed it onto the ground. Sure, a 304 is a hard thing to slow down, but it can move relatively slowly, as shown when Mitchell picked Carter up with Oddyssey. It just may be possible to kill its forward inertia in space. But if that proves impossible, you could simply park it on the ground, then beam it through a gate.

Now, for the real issue, could Earth do what is been suggested above ? It seems every piece of Asgard tech has been limited. They needed Hermiod to rewrite the safeguards to use Deddy's beams offensively. This does not bode well for their ability to construct beaming stations, write the programming necessary and build the buffers. I'm not even 100% sure we even build the beaming tech on our own ships (don't the Asgard make them for us ?). At the moment, i'd say a resounding no.

Unending spoilers ! However, anything is possible in Stargate. In the future, with the Asgard database at our disposal, it's possible we'll develop this capability. But that's pretty far off in the future.

IcyNeko
July 6th, 2007, 07:44 AM
I really love it when long-winded fellows don't read all the posts and just run off assumptions. Yeah, I did mention that asgard beaming technology doesn't beam through a gate. http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=6849811&postcount=25

Also...

On the return journey, they couldn't be beamed to Earth, cause Prommie won't fit in the Gate room, and they didn't have a working hyperdrive at the time so they couldn't be beamed to, say, Abydos and fly the rest of the way.
If the suggestion that people have made about the being able to beam through the gate, all they would have had to do was set up a beacon or patch in targetting telemetry to beam the prommie to the Area 51 hanger. If this idea was even feasible, they could have just picked up the gate above ground and moved it somewhere where the ship could beam in safely. The asgard could have used it on numerous occasions. But it didn't happen. Huh! What a surprise!


As for your other problems with the idea ; a ship is complex, lots of little parts. But a human body is also incredibly complex with even tinier parts and they get beamed around routinely. It's a matter of how good the sensors are. Asgard sensors are obviously very good.
To an imaging scanner, everything is as complex as a human being. Molecules and atom placement. But when you do it to a ship, it's suddenly many thousands of times larger. Even worse if the ship is full of humans.


True, if you beamed a ship into the atmosphere, it would drop like a rock.
You don't need to write anything after this. That was the scenario presented, and I replied to it. you don't need to offer any more explanations for scenarios that weren't brought up. Thanks.

Here's my biggest problem with the idea. Why would you beam a ship into atmosphere? Or have a "beaming station"? If it's for deployment during battle, you literally have to drag that station where ever you go, which is costly, slow, and provides your fleet with a weakness. Your mobile station will be the FIRST in the enemy target lists. That's why, in all scifi movies, they DON'T drag the battlestation around. They send carriers with drop ships.

randy23
July 6th, 2007, 05:15 PM
We know the Asgard have been actively researching an Ancient repository of knowledge for millennia, so the beams were possibly based on Ancient knowledge, although the Asgard clearly have their own style. The Ancient technology capable of Gate-beaming was located in an obelisk. As you will recall in Thor's Hammer, Thor's Chariot and Red Sky, SG-1 was transported around by Asgard obelisks.

Thus, considering the Ancients can do it, the Asgard have been researching Ancients tech and produced items that look like the Ancient tech used for Gate-beaming, surely one must conclude that it's possible the Asgard could do it. So, why don't they ? And importantly, could Earth duplicate the feat ?


The Asguard had parts of the repository. I find it amusing to think that everything came from the Ancients. If this was true, the writers would not have said that an alliance existed, but rather a group of backward races (Nox, Furlings, and Asguards) as technological-sucking vampires, who simply photocopied everything the Ancients had to offer. There is no evidence to suggest that the Asguard's beaming technology is Ancient based. For all we know, the Asguard created their beaming technology prior to the alliance. As we saw in "Urgo", there are people who can progress without any sign of Ancient technology being present.

Jimbo-DR
July 6th, 2007, 07:38 PM
The Asguard had parts of the repository. I find it amusing people think that everything came from the Ancients. If this was true, the writers would not have said that an alliance existed, but rather a group of backward races (Nox, Furlings, and Asguards) as technological-sucking vampires, who simply photocopied everything the Ancients had to offer. There is no evidence to suggest that the Asguard's beaming technology is Ancient based. For all we know, the Asguard created their beaming technology prior to the alliance. As we saw in "Urgo", there are people who can progress without any sign of Ancient technology being present.

As I understood it, the Asgard had the full repository, but can't use all of it. Remember, he said they "extracted" parts of it. Obviously those parts had to come from one of the whole systems. And they have been studying it as long as they can remember, and have barely scratched the surface. Those were Thor's words, more or less.

wiseowl777
July 6th, 2007, 07:52 PM
do remember... that the beaming through teh gate tech we saw... was created only 10,000 yrs ago using knowledge they had when they were ascended, therefore it easily coulda been asguard knowledge.... and it think the "beaming" through the gate was more of a realy to a specific device on the other side of the gate, rather than to a random location... remember the cave abd obelisk and gates were always near each other..... as for the beaming in thors chariot... well the ancients do have some beaming stuff (those "closets" with the touch screen) but it seems they liked rings more maybe?

randy23
July 6th, 2007, 11:42 PM
As I understood it, the Asgard had the full repository, but can't use all of it. Remember, he said they "extracted" parts of it. Obviously those parts had to come from one of the whole systems. And they have been studying it as long as they can remember, and have barely scratched the surface. Those were Thor's words, more or less.

That's the thing, Jimbo-DR, look at the quote made by Thor: "have barely scratched the surface." Now look at the present day Asguard technology. Pretty nifty, heh? Extremely powerful. If the Asguard only understood 2% of what they extracted (for what ever reason) when Thor made that statement in "New Order", then, it stands to reason the other 98% was hard work, in creating such things as better shields, weapons, and power sources. The Odyssey serves as a testament to their once great civilization; the accumulated knowledge which was largely due to their painstaking research as oppose to sifting through parts of the Ancient database looking for answers. Adding, the Asguard's original versions of their technology (like hyperdrive and beaming) could've just as easily been made well before their first contact with the Ancients, proceeded with the formation of the alliance where they most likely began sharing knowledge. This is possibly where the Asguard improved their technology along with the others. So it doesn't necessarily mean the other races received their original designs from the Ancients, but instead the Ancients aided the others in updating them and vice versa. It's a possibility.

s09119
July 7th, 2007, 07:37 AM
That's the thing, Jimbo-DR, look at the quote made by Thor: "have barely scratched the surface." Now look at the present day Asguard technology. Pretty nifty, heh? Extremely powerful. If the Asguard only understood 2% of what they extracted (for what ever reason) when Thor made that statement in "New Order", then, it stands to reason the other 98% was hard work, in creating such things as better shields, weapons, and power sources. The Odyssey serves as a testament to their once great civilization; the accumulated knowledge which was largely due to their painstaking research as oppose to sifting through parts of the Ancient database looking for answers. Adding, the Asguard's original versions of their technology (like hyperdrive and beaming) could've just as easily been made well before their first contact with the Ancients, proceeded with the formation of the alliance where they most likely began sharing knowledge. This is possibly where the Asguard improved their technology along with the others. So it doesn't necessarily mean the other races received their original designs from the Ancients, but instead the Ancients aided the others in updating them and vice versa. It's a possibility.

Um... no. That statement stands to reason that all Asgard tech was achieved through only minimal Ancient knowledge. Meaning that Ancient tech is SO amazingly advanced that you only need a small portion of the database to advance alot yourself.

That was the impression I and my friends go, anyway.

randy23
July 7th, 2007, 07:47 AM
Um... no. That statement stands to reason that all Asgard tech was achieved through only minimal Ancient knowledge. Meaning that Ancient tech is SO amazingly advanced that you only need a small portion of the database to advance alot yourself.

That was the impression I and my friends go, anyway.


I have to respectfully disagree. What you're suggesting is that the Odyssey pales in comparison to a fully functional ancient warship by a factor of atleast 50. Are you serious? Or did the Asguard extract parts only dealing with military technology from the repository? That would be a BIG coincidence.

s09119
July 7th, 2007, 08:10 AM
That doesn't make any sense. What you're suggesting is that the Odyssey pales in comparison to a fully functional ancient warship by a factor of atleast 50. Are you serious? Or did the Asguard only extract parts from the repository dealing with military technology? That be a BIG coincidence, wouldn't you think?

What? When did I say "A factor of 50"? All I said was that the Asgard were able to upgrade their tech with only minimal access to the database. And maybe they did just go for military tech, they have the technology to actually dig around in the repositories, search the files. All we can do is download EVERYTHING into a person and hope he says something usefull.

randy23
July 7th, 2007, 02:50 PM
What? When did I say "A factor of 50"? All I said was that the Asgard were able to upgrade their tech with only minimal access to the database. And maybe they did just go for military tech, they have the technology to actually dig around in the repositories, search the files. All we can do is download EVERYTHING into a person and hope he says something usefull.

The "50" was a relative guess based on your statement:"all Asgard tech was achieved through only minimal Ancient knowledge." What the quote suggests is that all the notable achievements of the Asguard, technologically speaking, came from the ancient repository which they only extracted parts of. I totally disagree with this assertion. There is no evidence to support that the Asguard did not have previous versions of their tech before making contact with the Ancients. Again, look at how powerful the Odyssey has become. Do not tell me all that came from "minimal" amounts of Ancient knowledge. It was simply hard work by the Asguard. I think it's even comparable to an Ancient warship.

Yes, the repository likely had an influence on Asguard technology, along with the shared knowledge they garnered during the time of the alliance; however, the subsequent advancements (like the Odyssey's updates) are likely their own and not replicated from the ancient database.

If the Asguard were capable of scouring the Ancient database, then, an index would've been necessary. Remember, Thor said, "barely scratched the surface." Granted, how could they find specific info about something when they were still unaware of the entirety of the database?? The Ancients probably didn't catalog their information with big red flags saying "THIS IS WHERE YOU'LL FIND DATA ON HYPERSPACE ENGINES, SHIELDS, AND OTHER COOL STUFF!" The only ones who truly understood the data were the Ancient scientists themselves. This is why Jack was a legend with the Asguard because his subconscious became a direct conduit to the information needed. He essentially became a "search function" for the database. So, no, I don't think they could have meticulously combed through the database looking for military data.

s09119
July 8th, 2007, 12:05 PM
^^^

I just realized we are SO far off-topic it isn't even funny...

YodaMate
July 10th, 2007, 09:36 PM
I really love it when long-winded fellows don't read all the posts and just run off assumptions. Yeah, I did mention that asgard beaming technology doesn't beam through a gate. http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=6849811&postcount=25

Also...

If the suggestion that people have made about the being able to beam through the gate, all they would have had to do was set up a beacon or patch in targetting telemetry to beam the prommie to the Area 51 hanger. If this idea was even feasible, they could have just picked up the gate above ground and moved it somewhere where the ship could beam in safely. The asgard could have used it on numerous occasions. But it didn't happen. Huh! What a surprise!


Here's my biggest problem with the idea. Why would you beam a ship into atmosphere? Or have a "beaming station"? If it's for deployment during battle, you literally have to drag that station where ever you go, which is costly, slow, and provides your fleet with a weakness. Your mobile station will be the FIRST in the enemy target lists. That's why, in all scifi movies, they DON'T drag the battlestation around. They send carriers with drop ships.

I did read what you posted, i was simply re-iterating it as part of the argument, which i hope you found compelling (you've got an extemely good point about long-windedness :) )

I actually agreed with you to some extent in principle. I feel the Asgard could set up elaborate beaming tech, but you're right, it's not practical for them (especially in combat).

As for moving the gate, that would've seriously alarmed the SGC. The Asgard are trying to minimise unsolicited intervention after all ;)

For Earth to accomplish such things is impossible at the moment IMHO. Maybe in the future, but still a long way off, and unlikely.

Ehecatl
July 11th, 2007, 11:58 AM
It is not plausible to beam through a gate. Beaming demoleculerises an object and so does the gate. Demoleculerising an already demoleculerised object through a gate would break up the object to the point where reconstruction on the other side would be most unstable and nearly impossible.

Jimbo-DR
July 11th, 2007, 09:36 PM
It is not plausible to beam through a gate. Beaming demoleculerises an object and so does the gate. Demoleculerising an already demoleculerised object through a gate would break up the object to the point where reconstruction on the other side would be most unstable and nearly impossible.

And yet the Ancient beaming technology was able to accomplish just this task in the second part of the mid season 2 parter.

s09119
July 12th, 2007, 03:57 PM
And yet the Ancient beaming technology was able to accomplish just this task in the second part of the mid season 2 parter.

True. That's how Morgan's planetary circuit system worked.

General David Niemi
July 12th, 2007, 04:08 PM
True. That's how Morgan's planetary circuit system worked.

Circuit system :lol: Thats probably what it's called too. (I don't remember :D)