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GoSpikey
February 3rd, 2008, 04:18 PM
I like that someone is more obsessed with Michael and Todd than I am. Of course, I get sidetracked whenever Mckay comes up in conversation. And you even managed to bring him up! <3

:lol:

Glad to be of service.

I have Michael on my desktop, and a tab open with the yummiest Todd picture of BAMSR... 0139 of stargatecaps. (aka the one in my siggy)

I stare at it every 20 minutes, or something.

:D

PG15
February 3rd, 2008, 04:19 PM
That's it! Let your inner fangirl out! :D

I'm male, actually. ;)

SGFerrit
February 3rd, 2008, 04:19 PM
The Kindred I, too? :P You sure? Cos they asked CH if he was in TLM, and he confirmed that.

Well, it's from Joe Mallozzi, unless there is something else CG Wraith could mean:D

Reiko
February 3rd, 2008, 04:24 PM
I'm male, actually. ;)

Well, that proves even the guys have inner fangirl ;)

GoSpikey
February 3rd, 2008, 04:27 PM
Well, it's from Joe Mallozzi, unless there is something else CG Wraith could mean:D

Oh, no, that's okay. I'll take the Common Ground Wraith any day. And night...

*Thunk*

Gutter :cool:

SGFerrit
February 3rd, 2008, 04:42 PM
Or not. Cos you didn't put yours in tags, either, and it's alike my post. ;)

Oh god! I just realised!

How stupid am I!?!:o

GoSpikey
February 3rd, 2008, 04:50 PM
Oh god! I just realised!

How stupid am I!?!:o

Well, it's 2 in the morning over here, so if you want to, you can use that excuse, too! :D

Inanna
February 3rd, 2008, 04:55 PM
So now Michael wants to kill off the Wraith too? God, that guy's vengeful.

Though I suppose he could have picked a better way. One that's, say, not potentially lethal to himself as well. =|

GoSpikey
February 3rd, 2008, 05:01 PM
So now Michael wants to kill off the Wraith too? God, that guy's vengeful.

Though I suppose he could have picked a better way. One that's, say, not potentially lethal to himself as well. =|

Yup. Michael wants to kill the Wraith from after "No Man's Land" since they betrayed him, or his Queen did. She told him that the stench of what the Lanteans did to him will never go away, remember? And since he looked different, and he definitely does even more after "Misbegotten", he knows he'll never again find a home in Wraith society. And after "Misbegotten", he barely got out alive out of that Hive, remember? He said so in "Vengeance". So he definitely knows that the Wraith will kill him, should they meet him. Poor Michael. Little did Sheppard know that picking a random Wraith to experiment on would be so bad for the Lanteans, as the Wraith himself.

Michael might have come up with an antidote? Maybe? Or do we even know if he still needs feeding? He could feed on the Athosians, or his bugs.

:(

erb
February 3rd, 2008, 05:10 PM
Ah, thanks. So we're thinking that Mike used Beckett to recreate this drug, and recreate the Hoff incident. Well, ain't that some emotional whump for Carson. :beckett:

I know. I know. :S

I've always felt Carson and Michael's stories were irrevocably intertwined, which is why offing Carson while continuing with Michael didn't make creative sense to me.

GoSpikey
February 3rd, 2008, 05:24 PM
I know. I know. :S

I've always felt Carson and Michael's stories were irrevocably intertwined, which is why offing Carson while continuing with Michael didn't make creative sense to me.

Poor Carson. And I don't even know if I'm saying that because of the mind torture he had to undergo to 'teach' everything to Michael, or because he had to help him do it, too.

Think the Wraith/Human people are safe from the virus? So, like Teyla, her baby, the Athosians...?

If so, does Michael use them to feed on, cos those don't get sick?

Oh Michael, how many more sleepless nights are you going to give me? And that doesn't include Todd yet. :P

Inanna
February 3rd, 2008, 05:30 PM
Yup. Michael wants to kill the Wraith from after "No Man's Land" since they betrayed him, or his Queen did. She told him that the stench of what the Lanteans did to him will never go away, remember? And since he looked different, and he definitely does even more after "Misbegotten", he knows he'll never again find a home in Wraith society. And after "Misbegotten", he barely got out alive out of that Hive, remember? He said so in "Vengeance". So he definitely knows that the Wraith will kill him, should they meet him. Poor Michael. Little did Sheppard know that picking a random Wraith to experiment on would be so bad for the Lanteans, as the Wraith himself.

Michael might have come up with an antidote? Maybe? Or do we even know if he still needs feeding? He could feed on the Athosians, or his bugs.

:(

I can't imagine him not needing to feed now. That's really the most inherent thing about being wraith at all... taking that away would probably be the sort of permanent solution Carson said he hadn't yet reached, so... very unlikely that he doesn't anymore.

It'd be neat if he could just insert some human DNA into something, and thus make it edible. And it definitely makes sense, since I'm guessing that the reason the Wraith can feed on only humans at all is because of the shared DNA, so it could be fairly easy to develop an alternative food source, if that's the case.

So... do you think if they had grabbed some other random, fairly intelligent Wraith and experimented on him, the result would have been somewhat similar? Or is Michael's obsessive individuality some sort of fluke?

GoSpikey
February 3rd, 2008, 05:44 PM
So... do you think if they had grabbed some other random, fairly intelligent Wraith and experimented on him, the result would have been somewhat similar? Or is Michael's obsessive individuality some sort of fluke?

That's actually a very hard question, because of the "There's many things about Wraith you do not know." And they're not exactly forthcoming with information.

Little did the Lanteans know that the Wraith were indeed individuals, or they most certainly become them after they have an eye opening experience.

When I was thinking about that a few hours ago, I actually thought that it would have been best if they took a masked Wraith, cos they have the tendency to hopefully be more stupid (clones), and they're just built for following orders?

dasNdanger
February 3rd, 2008, 05:57 PM
Well, mixed emotions about all of this...

First, can anyone tell me exactly what Joe M. said about 'CG' Wraith? If he is indeed referring to Todd, I'd like to know the context.

Also, just because Chris Heyerdahl said he would be in The Last Man, doesn't mean he will be Todd - he could be Halling, or another character. Chris has played at least 3 characters in SGA - Todd, Halling, and at least one other unnamed male Wraith...so...he could be in TLM as anyone.

I guess I'm really afraid they'll kill off Todd, which would be totally sucky. Also, since I love the Wraith so much, this new development is making not like Michael at all...so...yeah...I'm kinda scared about what's going to happen in the next few episodes, because Joe M. said we will need hankies for them, which indicates we'll be crying over some of the things that are going to happen at the end of this season.

Argh. I hate it when my favorite characters (the Wraith) are on the 'extermination' list...especially since there are hints of Todd perhaps being in these episodes as well.

So - again - if anyone could post the exact comment that Joe M. said regarding the 'CG' Wraith, I'd appreciate it...

das

GoSpikey
February 3rd, 2008, 06:12 PM
Well, mixed emotions about all of this...

First, can anyone tell me exactly what Joe M. said about 'CG' Wraith? If he is indeed referring to Todd, I'd like to know the context.

Also, just because Chris Heyerdahl said he would be in The Last Man, doesn't mean he will be Todd - he could be Halling, or another character. Chris has played at least 3 characters in SGA - Todd, Halling, and at least one other unnamed male Wraith...so...he could be in TLM as anyone.

I guess I'm really afraid they'll kill off Todd, which would be totally sucky. Also, since I love the Wraith so much, this new development is making not like Michael at all...so...yeah...I'm kinda scared about what's going to happen in the next few episodes, because Joe M. said we will need hankies for them, which indicates we'll be crying over some of the things that are going to happen at the end of this season.

Argh. I hate it when my favorite characters (the Wraith) are on the 'extermination' list...especially since there are hints of Todd perhaps being in these episodes as well.

So - again - if anyone could post the exact comment that Joe M. said regarding the 'CG' Wraith, I'd appreciate it...

das

I'll go to Joe M's blog tomorrow if it's not been answered by then.

Man, if *you* are afraid that they're gonna get rid of Todd, I'm double afraid (eek, nap nap time now).

They *know* how much we like Todd, right? So if they do something to him now, people will cry. Or I will. I'm quite concerned with the fact that he's apparently in K I too. I wouldn't know why. Part of me thinks it's strange to ask CH to come do a Wraith that's not Todd after such a Todd heavy season. Man, if Michael gets Todd killed, I'll personally send Ronon to kill Michael. And that would be the ending of my Siggy... :sheppardanime32:

Is having a somewhat Wraith buddy too easy? Was Todd no more a means of getting rid of some Replicators? If he wasn't meant to be more, after all, I'll be crying my eyes out while watching the eps he's in. And I luff them so much.

GoSpikey
February 3rd, 2008, 06:18 PM
I Ctrl F-ed 'CG' in Joe's blog, but there's nothing there. But I think it's from another source? The one that has more spoilers?

Edit: I'm too tired to still know what I'm saying. I'm surprised that my brain even still speaks English. (3.30 in the morning-ish)

Night.

PG15
February 3rd, 2008, 06:22 PM
You do realize that you don't get every blog entry on the main page of the blog, right? There are hundreds of entries.

And the one you're looking for is this one:

http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/2007/07/july-16-2007.html

wheresmyfroggy
February 3rd, 2008, 06:22 PM
I'm pretty sure the quote you're looking for from Joe M's blog is from waaaaay back. Like months back, when they were filming stuff.

I don't think they're going to kill Todd. What was the point of letting him 'escape' in Spoils of War if they were just going to kill him anyway? No, I think they know they've hit gold with this character and are going to keep him around for a long while. He's so useful! He's one of those awesome grey characters, where you don't know if they're going to help you or hurt you when they show up.

wheresmyfroggy
February 3rd, 2008, 06:24 PM
You do realize that you don't get every blog entry on the main page of the blog, right? There are hundreds of entries.

And the one you're looking for is this one:

http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/2007/07/july-16-2007.html

I knew you'd come up with it! I almost typed 'PG15 will find it' in my entry, but then I stopped myself. I didn't want to pressure you. :)

PG15
February 3rd, 2008, 06:26 PM
It helped that I remember him mentioning it. ;)

GoSpikey
February 3rd, 2008, 06:26 PM
You do realize that you don't get every blog entry on the main page of the blog, right? There are hundreds of entries.

And the one you're looking for is this one:

http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/2007/07/july-16-2007.html

Oooh, it's *that* old? Nothing much to worry about, then. And you're *that* PG15? Lol. And did they say Kindred I was ep 4x14? Huh?


I'm pretty sure the quote you're looking for from Joe M's blog is from waaaaay back. Like months back, when they were filming stuff.

I don't think they're going to kill Todd. What was the point of letting him 'escape' in Spoils of War if they were just going to kill him anyway? No, I think they know they've hit gold with this character and are going to keep him around for a long while. He's so useful! He's one of those awesome grey characters, where you don't know if they're going to help you or hurt you when they show up.

Thanks Froggy, I needed some positive input. Now let's hope you're correct about it.

Night.

wheresmyfroggy
February 3rd, 2008, 06:30 PM
Thanks Froggy, I needed some positive input. Now let's hope you're correct about it.

Night.

That's what I'm here for. G'night!

PG15
February 3rd, 2008, 06:31 PM
Yes, I'm *that* PG15. What are you implying? ;)

Yeah, they had to shoot Kindred fairly early since Rachel would've had to go on maternity leave fairly soon. In fact, Harmony and Outcast were shot as 418 and 419 (I think), when Rachel had already left.

dasNdanger
February 3rd, 2008, 06:59 PM
Thanks, all!!

Well, that refererence to 'CG' Wraith doesn't help at all, other then to indicate that Todd will probably be in The Kindred - at least in part 1. Dang. I sure hope you all are right in thinking Todd is too valuable a character to kill off so soon...if ever. Still, it doesn't stop me from worrying...

das

Nitegate
February 3rd, 2008, 07:50 PM
let me guess, if todd gets killed off, there's gonna be some ****** who stop watching the show :jack_new_anime25:

wheresmyfroggy
February 3rd, 2008, 08:13 PM
let me guess, if todd gets killed off, there's gonna be some ****** who stop watching the show :jack_new_anime25:

Nah, that's if Mckay gets killed off. If Todd gets killed off, I may have to cry myself to sleep for a while. Write some angry letters, become one of those annoying fans that's always yelling "WHY?!?!? *sob*". Stop watching, though? That seems extreme.... ;)

Inanna
February 3rd, 2008, 08:16 PM
Eh, some of us will probably just lose interest. Todd's the reason I began following the show again (though I've picked up more reasons since).


When I was thinking about that a few hours ago, I actually thought that it would have been best if they took a faced Wraith, cos they have the tendency to hopefully be more stupid (clones), and they're just built for following orders?

Yeah, I've thought that too. They really were idiots for going after Michael instead. xD


I guess I'm really afraid they'll kill off Todd, which would be totally sucky. Also, since I love the Wraith so much, this new development is making not like Michael at all...so...yeah...I'm kinda scared about what's going to happen in the next few episodes, because Joe M. said we will need hankies for them, which indicates we'll be crying over some of the things that are going to happen at the end of this season.

I don't think we, the wraith fans, need to be overly worried about that need for hankies, since I would assume that wraith characters really aren't universally adored. It's probably referring to characters somewhat less... dark.

And don't let yourself hate Michael for this. :( He's got a fairly serious reason to have gone genocidal on his "people." And don't forget that Todd was wanting to go wage war on the rest of the Wraith himself. :cool:

dasNdanger
February 3rd, 2008, 08:33 PM
let me guess, if todd gets killed off, there's gonna be some ****** who stop watching the show :jack_new_anime25:

I would be very unhappy if they killed off Todd, since he's the one who got me watching the show (before Todd, I was only half-heartedly interested in SGA - hubby was a fan, but I wasn't - not until Common Ground). Because of Todd, I came to see the Wraith in a different light, and - after re-watching the previous seasons, have come to love the Wraith in general.

So - killing Todd off wouldn't make me stop watching (though I would be very unhappy about it), but killing off ALL the Wraith would. Characters like Todd, and even early ones like Steve (gotta love Steve), have made the Wraith so much more interesting than the one-dimensional creepy life-sucking bugmen we first thought them to be. First time in ages I've been excited about the development of alien characters in a sci fi show, and I must admit to tiring of all the 'kill off the Wraith' themes in SGA episodes.

I'd much rather see more episodes that continue to show Wraith character development (hopefully through Todd, and perhaps others), which eventually leads to a permanent (albeit, shaky) alliance between a FEW Wraith, and the humans. Wouldn't want to see ALL Wraith turn 'good guys', but to have a hive or two on somewhat friendly terms with the Lanteans (on a continued basis) would make me very happy. Wouldn't want them to be overly trustworthy, but I'm SO ready to have a small faction of Wraith at least trying to find a way to co-exist with humans, as long as they are still able to keep their unpredictable edge.

das

Reiko
February 3rd, 2008, 08:33 PM
And don't let yourself hate Michael for this. :( He's got a fairly serious reason to have gone genocidal on his "people." And don't forget that Todd was wanting to go wage war on the rest of the Wraith himself. :cool:

I agree; Mikey has perfectly good reasons to turn into "Dr. Evil" as some have resorted to calling him. I mean, anyone would be a little tetchy after what he went through. Poor Mikey just needs some loooovvvveee <3

Inanna
February 3rd, 2008, 08:47 PM
Hah, Sheppard called him that. XD

Is it even clear that his goal is to take over the galaxy? From what I gather, his priority is simply self-defense. And after that, vengeance. Probably against the galaxy at large, but bitterness and hatred as a driving force is entirely different from a parodic desire for conquest. Here's a guy who's had his entirely life turned upside down, who's been remade in the image of his enemy (and knows it), betrayed several times, and now abandoned by all. So I really don't see the justification for cheapening him in such a manner.

I'm not sure that it's even possible for him to come back from this, but it would be wonderful if the latent humanity in him were able to manifest itself in a less... self-destructive manner than it's been doing so far. As unlikely as it is, his redemption could be absolutely beautiful.

dasNdanger
February 3rd, 2008, 09:03 PM
Eh, some of us will probably just lose interest. Todd's the reason I began following the show again (though I've picked up more reasons since).

I feel the same way. Now - I do like SGA, and I like other characters, but none excite me like Todd does - not even Ronon, who I was mildly interested in before I started really paying attention to the show. Now, when I say 'excite', I don't mean it in a 'He's so HAWT!' way - not that at all. Instead, I mean it in the sense of what this character reveals and brings to the show, including a Wraithy sense of humor, a defining of Wraith as individuals, and his ability to bring out the best - and worst - in the Lantean crew. He's a breath of fresh air - he's the rock star walking onto the stage - he's the one you EXPECT will stir up the hornet's nest, so you can never really be sure which way things will go.

Heh - already I'm going through 'Todd Withdrawal' after several Wraith-free episodes. I don't like to see a reoccurring character OVERdone - which could happen with Todd if they're not careful...but he's so interesting, and such a well-defined personality now, that I do feel a little letdown when he's not in the show.

Now...if we could ONLY fix that name of his... :mckay:


I don't think we, the wraith fans, need to be overly worried about that need for hankies, since I would assume that wraith characters really aren't universally adored. It's probably referring to characters somewhat less... dark.

Funny - I don't understand why more people aren't fans of the Wraith. Sure, they're 'dark', but they truly have the most inner conflict of any character in the show. I mean, in a sense...they are always 'suffering'. Hunger isn't fun. But look at the confidence they show. They don't let on that they are hungry, but instead cover it up with a poise and disciplined self-control that conceals what they are really feeling inside. That's not easy to do. Steve told Sheppard "you hide your fear poorly"...that isn't something that can be said of the Wraith, and their hunger. Wraith hide their hunger well, and that's what I find so very interesting about them...they have more depth, at this point, then the regular crew, who are basically 'what you see is what you get' characters (with the exception, perhaps, of Sheppard). But Wraith are definitely guys with GREAT potential for character development, and therefore the most interesting ones in the show, as far as I'm concerned.


And don't let yourself hate Michael for this. :( He's got a fairly serious reason to have gone genocidal on his "people." And don't forget that Todd was wanting to go wage war on the rest of the Wraith himself. :cool:

Yeah, but Todd isn't looking to kill off all of his kind. Besides - we don't know if what he told Sheppard was the truth - he could have been only telling Sheppard what he thought would buy him time, and win points with the humans. Only time will tell if that was the case - but we really don't know exactly what he was planning, only what he said...which may not have been the truth.

das

dasNdanger
February 3rd, 2008, 09:54 PM
Is it even clear that his goal is to take over the galaxy? From what I gather, his priority is simply self-defense. And after that, vengeance. Probably against the galaxy at large, but bitterness and hatred as a driving force is entirely different from a parodic desire for conquest. Here's a guy who's had his entirely life turned upside down, who's been remade in the image of his enemy (and knows it), betrayed several times, and now abandoned by all. So I really don't see the justification for cheapening him in such a manner.

I'm not sure that it's even possible for him to come back from this, but it would be wonderful if the latent humanity in him were able to manifest itself in a less... self-destructive manner than it's been doing so far. As unlikely as it is, his redemption could be absolutely beautiful.

So very true...it would be beautiful indeed....

das

ciannwn
February 4th, 2008, 04:50 AM
And don't let yourself hate Michael for this. :( He's got a fairly serious reason to have gone genocidal on his "people."

We don't know the details concerning why Michael ended up as an outcast. Maybe it's to do with more than just being retrovirused for a while.

In 'No Man's Land' there's the following conversation between Michael and the Queen.

MICHAEL: You should have told me. (The Queen looks at him enquiringly.) That we were going to betray the Atlanteans.

HIVE QUEEN: Are you feeling sympathy for them?

MICHAEL: No. But I don't understand why I wasn't told. I told you of their plan because I believed it was a viable way ...

HIVE QUEEN (interrupting): You're only alive because you still may prove to be useful. But I fear, Michael, that the lingering stench of what they have transformed you into will never fade.

Maybe the Queen rejected Michael because he thought that turning other Wraith into humans and feeding on them was a 'good thing' as long as he wasn't on the receiving end. Wraith fight each other and even feed on their own kind but this doesn't neccessarily mean that they wouldn't draw a line somewhere. For all we know at the moment Michael could still have tried to promote the retrovirus as a biological weapon against fellow Wraith when he was picked up by the rescue Hive. We haven't been told if there were other Wraith survivors from the 'Misbegotten' planet let alone what their fate was. Perhaps they were all rejected or maybe it was just Michael.

So what about Michael's explanation in 'Vengeance'?

The hive that finally rescued me -- they could tell something was different. They sensed the human in me. To them, I was unclean. I barely escaped that hive with my life.

Perhaps this was a case of 'selective memory' so he could feel justified in taking revenge.

I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for Michael. From 'Misbegotten' -

MICHAEL: And if I remember nothing of what or who I am -- if this consciousness is erased -- what is the difference between that and death?

While this is a valid reason for Wraith not volunteering for the treatment Michael was perfectly happy at the idea of forcing this fate on fellow Wraith because he regarded it as a 'viable way'.

cabouse18
February 4th, 2008, 08:11 AM
We don't know the details concerning why Michael ended up as an outcast. Maybe it's to do with more than just being retrovirused for a while.

In 'No Man's Land' there's the following conversation between Michael and the Queen.

MICHAEL: You should have told me. (The Queen looks at him enquiringly.) That we were going to betray the Atlanteans.

HIVE QUEEN: Are you feeling sympathy for them?

MICHAEL: No. But I don't understand why I wasn't told. I told you of their plan because I believed it was a viable way ...

HIVE QUEEN (interrupting): You're only alive because you still may prove to be useful. But I fear, Michael, that the lingering stench of what they have transformed you into will never fade.

Maybe the Queen rejected Michael because he thought that turning other Wraith into humans and feeding on them was a 'good thing' as long as he wasn't on the receiving end. Wraith fight each other and even feed on their own kind but this doesn't neccessarily mean that they wouldn't draw a line somewhere. For all we know at the moment Michael could still have tried to promote the retrovirus as a biological weapon against fellow Wraith when he was picked up by the rescue Hive. We haven't been told if there were other Wraith survivors from the 'Misbegotten' planet let alone what their fate was. Perhaps they were all rejected or maybe it was just Michael.

So what about Michael's explanation in 'Vengeance'?

The hive that finally rescued me -- they could tell something was different. They sensed the human in me. To them, I was unclean. I barely escaped that hive with my life.

Perhaps this was a case of 'selective memory' so he could feel justified in taking revenge.

I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for Michael. From 'Misbegotten' -

MICHAEL: And if I remember nothing of what or who I am -- if this consciousness is erased -- what is the difference between that and death?

While this is a valid reason for Wraith not volunteering for the treatment Michael was perfectly happy at the idea of forcing this fate on fellow Wraith because he regarded it as a 'viable way'.

At this point, Michael is all about self preservation. Yes, he wants revenge but at the same time he wants to survive and what he was doing in Vengeance was his way of insuring his survival. I don't necessarily think he has notions of taking over the galaxy but just surviving and getting his revenge on the people of Atlantis and he will do anything to accomplish that.

GoSpikey
February 4th, 2008, 08:18 AM
Yes, I'm *that* PG15. What are you implying? ;)

Yeah, they had to shoot Kindred fairly early since Rachel would've had to go on maternity leave fairly soon. In fact, Harmony and Outcast were shot as 418 and 419 (I think), when Rachel had already left.

*g*

You're the PG15 that sometimes gets mentioned in Joe M's blog, then? If I read correctly and wasn't hallucinating yesterday... :P

Grats on getting in, if so.

Ah, okay. That explains some things... Great to see them do that.

GoSpikey
February 4th, 2008, 08:22 AM
Nah, that's if Mckay gets killed off. If Todd gets killed off, I may have to cry myself to sleep for a while. Write some angry letters, become one of those annoying fans that's always yelling "WHY?!?!? *sob*". Stop watching, though? That seems extreme.... ;)

The question is: can you keep both of them around? Mikey and Todd, I mean.

If they're gonna have 5 season endings with Michael in them, it's gonna be pretty lame, right? Always the same thing? How many original things can you make him do? And how incompetent do you want to make Shep & co look? And how competent should Michael be?

Todd = luff, and I want to have him around. In both of his forms. :P

And I refuse to call him the ridiculous name of Gabriel.

:D

cabouse18
February 4th, 2008, 08:41 AM
The question is: can you keep both of them around? Mikey and Todd, I mean.

If they're gonna have 5 season endings with Michael in them, it's gonna be pretty lame, right? Always the same thing? How many original things can you make him do? And how incompetent do you want to make Shep & co look? And how competent should Michael be?

Todd = luff, and I want to have him around. In both of his forms. :P

And I refuse to call him the ridiculous name of Gabriel.

:D

I love Todd but I think Michael is more dynamic character and if given the choice; want Michael over Todd.

GoSpikey
February 4th, 2008, 08:42 AM
Eh, some of us will probably just lose interest. Todd's the reason I began following the show again (though I've picked up more reasons since).

Yeah, I've thought that too. They really were idiots for going after Michael instead. xD

I don't think we, the wraith fans, need to be overly worried about that need for hankies, since I would assume that wraith characters really aren't universally adored. It's probably referring to characters somewhat less... dark.

And don't let yourself hate Michael for this. :( He's got a fairly serious reason to have gone genocidal on his "people." And don't forget that Todd was wanting to go wage war on the rest of the Wraith himself. :cool:

I don't think I can ever lose interest in Stargate, I've been following SG-1 since episode one. They've kinda done the 'let's kill all of our enemies and get it over with', but it would be nice to indeed, like das says, see a sort of alliance between a few Hives (Todd in command-o :o), and have them work to a more steady food supplies in the form of clones. (But that could maybe be a problem for the IOA, since the ethical things involving cloning, and then feeding of them).

Of course I planned to refer to a masked Wraith, but I was too tired and wrote 'faced Wraith', but you get the idea. They would maybe have been better off with the dumb looking onces from Misbegotten.

We'll know soon enough if we need to worry about things, if some cast member is off the list, then they could be killed off. I don't really care for the Athosians, if Michael feeds on him, so what. Think he fed off Halling, btw? Halling being fed upon by Michael, and Michael being fed upon by Todd, it's poetry. Hehe. Not that Mikey needs to die, of course.;)

I don't know what to think of Michael any more, to tell you the truth. I can't even imagine how bad it must be to suddenly lose your family, and get another one like that, and then they lie so much to you. The thing is, they could have fixed things a bit in No Man's Land, but they didn't, and so they really created a huge problem. But back to Michael now. Yes, he has to defend himself. He's all alone, lonely, and won't survive on his own, so creating protection it is. His most recent memories are the ones of the virus that made him into what he's at that point, and he realizes there's so much more that can be done with it, and then he does investigate. Bummer that, in doing so, so many people die. Next step is going up against the Wraith, so that's where Beckett and his 'poison' come in. So dead Wraith is something he wants, but yet again he's dragging people down in doing so. It's not the general people that did something to him, it's the Lanteans. It's kinda like he knows he's gonna die some day, and maybe soon, and he's taking with him what he can? Does he really believe that he can take down all the Wraith?

And I hate it that we have no idea how many Hives are out there, how many Wraith in total, etc. And where did he get a cruiser from? It would be kinda strange if people were to have on lying around.

I think I should probably end my rant now. I really needed it, I think. :P

Oh! Todd would make a great leader. Again, if anything can ever change, it's got to be with him. And if there's a peace between the Lanteans and the left over Wraiths, steady food source etc, then they can introduce new enemies. :D

GoSpikey
February 4th, 2008, 08:48 AM
Hah, Sheppard called him that. XD

Is it even clear that his goal is to take over the galaxy? From what I gather, his priority is simply self-defense. And after that, vengeance. Probably against the galaxy at large, but bitterness and hatred as a driving force is entirely different from a parodic desire for conquest. Here's a guy who's had his entirely life turned upside down, who's been remade in the image of his enemy (and knows it), betrayed several times, and now abandoned by all. So I really don't see the justification for cheapening him in such a manner.

I'm not sure that it's even possible for him to come back from this, but it would be wonderful if the latent humanity in him were able to manifest itself in a less... self-destructive manner than it's been doing so far. As unlikely as it is, his redemption could be absolutely beautiful.

That was so beautiful. :sheppardanime32:

(Shep crying is funny)

Edit: And das, I never read your comment before I put mine here. :D

dasNdanger
February 4th, 2008, 09:11 AM
I love Todd but I think Michael is more dynamic character and if given the choice; want Michael over Todd.

Michael is only more dynamic, I believe, because he's made his choice - he's hellbent on getting back at everyone. A bitter bugman. We understand where he's coming from, and the pain he's gone through...we've made the journey with him, and therefore are touched by his situation, even if we don't agree with what he is doing.

Todd, on the other hand, hasn't revealed all there is to know about him. What was his real position before the Genii got him? All we know about Todd is that he had given up hope, and Sheppard restored that hope. That's about it - he's vague, he's whimiscal, he doesn't let his real feelings show. He was ready to face death at the hands of his own in SoW ("So be it!"), then turned right around with a light, "I'm sure you didn't come all of this way just to rescue me!" One minute he's snarling at Ronon, and the next he's chuckling over one of Sheppard's lame-o jokes. Very hard to read this guy, and what his real intentions are. For this reason he's more INTERESTING to me - he makes me wonder what he's up to - wonder exactly where he's come from, and where he is going.

So, while Michael excites my emotions, Todd excites my mind. Two different characters. Kill off Michael, and you're left with the Wraith's version of Captain Jack Sparrow. Kill off Todd, and you're left with a very bitter, loveless Davy Jones (sorry for the Pirates of the Caribbean references...but if you've seen the movies, I think you can see the similarities).

I think both can have a continued role in the show...but...not TOO much. For all that I love Todd, I am a bit concerned with how many episodes he may be in this season: The Seer, Miller's Crossing, BAMSR, SoW - and now possibly The Kindred (one, possibly both, parts), and maybe TLM. Add Michael into the mix, and I fear SOME fans (NOT ME!) will start whining about 'too many Wraith episodes!'.

Time will tell how much exposure these two characters get. I really hope Todd returns for seasons to come, while the jury is still out on Michael, all depending on what he does during the last few episodes of this season, and into the next.


das

ciannwn
February 4th, 2008, 09:15 AM
If they're gonna have 5 season endings with Michael in them, it's gonna be pretty lame, right? Always the same thing? How many original things can you make him do? And how incompetent do you want to make Shep & co look? And how competent should Michael be?

A very good point. Do we really want every season ending on the lines of -

Michael:Curses! Foiled again.

Shep and co: Rats! He got away again.

Nitegate
February 4th, 2008, 10:07 AM
what i'm saying is, there were people that started watching Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis cause it's called STARGATE, then people started hating the show cause they got rid of Ford, Beckett & Weir. i thought it was called STARGATE, not the Elizabeth Weir Show or The Carson Beckett Medical Show or whatever. LMAO.

in my opinion, i love the wraith, they're the greatest, but i guarantee Todd probably won't be killed, cause the positive reaction to him and cause he's like Baal, helps out, but what is his true motives? i think Todd still can't be trusted, that he is using the Atlantis Expedition for his own.

but on Michael, i think they should probably end the story line with him in season 5.

Reiko
February 4th, 2008, 10:25 AM
I think both can have a continued role in the show...but...not TOO much. For all that I love Todd, I am a bit concerned with how many episodes he may be in this season: The Seer, Miller's Crossing, BAMSR, SoW - and now possibly The Kindred (one, possibly both, parts), and maybe TLM. Add Michael into the mix, and I fear SOME fans (NOT ME!) will start whining about 'too many Wraith episodes!'.


"Too many Wraith Episodes?" I think I'll laugh if I hear anyone remotely suggest that. The Wraith are awesome and should become the main enemy focus again, with secondary focuses on human civilizations like Genii. The Wraith are so much hotter than those godawful replicators. :P

Sokar_The_Wraith - while I am a Weir fan and a HUGE Carson fan, their removal didn't make me hate the show. It just made me unhappy with the decicion tptb made.

I also think that Mikey's storyline could be wrapped up in season five. But I have a feeling Todd will last a long time ;)

PG15
February 4th, 2008, 01:08 PM
*g*

You're the PG15 that sometimes gets mentioned in Joe M's blog, then? If I read correctly and wasn't hallucinating yesterday... :P

Grats on getting in, if so.



Yeah, I'm that guy. Thanks. :D

Mitchell82
February 4th, 2008, 01:18 PM
what i'm saying is, there were people that started watching Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis cause it's called STARGATE, then people started hating the show cause they got rid of Ford, Beckett & Weir. i thought it was called STARGATE, not the Elizabeth Weir Show or The Carson Beckett Medical Show or whatever. LMAO.

in my opinion, i love the wraith, they're the greatest, but i guarantee Todd probably won't be killed, cause the positive reaction to him and cause he's like Baal, helps out, but what is his true motives? i think Todd still can't be trusted, that he is using the Atlantis Expedition for his own.

but on Michael, i think they should probably end the story line with him in season 5.
I hope not. I like Michael and don't want his storyline finished yet.

Platschu
February 4th, 2008, 01:31 PM
Maybe Michael will be killed, but his pets can live their own life. ;)

cabouse18
February 4th, 2008, 02:02 PM
I hope not. I like Michael and don't want his storyline finished yet.

Michael reminds me of Apophis in the sense that he was one villian who you wanted to see dead but was kind of happy that he was kept around b/c you loved to hate him.

Michael is really the anithesis of a Wraith. He kind of looks like one but has more human characteristics than they do. I think deep down he has more human qualities then is let on...which again, is what I think makes his character so dynamic.

But like Apophis, eventually they will kill him....but right now b/c most fans and the writers like him and his character keeps things fresh, so he will more than likely stick around; for a little while anyway;)

Nitegate
February 4th, 2008, 04:35 PM
I hope not. I like Michael and don't want his storyline finished yet.

i like michael too, but i do want to see an end to it instead of if it doesn't get picked up for a 6th season cause of stupid sci-fi, then we're not left wondering.

they need another network to pick it up IMO, like how sci-fi picked up SG-1 after Showtimes run was done with the first 5 seasons.

Jumper_One
February 4th, 2008, 04:40 PM
I hope not. I like Michael and don't want his storyline finished yet.

from JM's blog

“Michael, everybody’s favorite Wraith (Connor Trinnear of “Star Trek: Enterprise”), will have a very significant storyline in Season 5,”

A very significant storyline? That’s news to us in the writing department.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/february-5-2008-hey-wheres-that-press-release/

Nitegate
February 4th, 2008, 08:18 PM
whoever made up those rumors is dumb.

Fenrir Foxz
February 5th, 2008, 02:34 AM
whoever made up those rumors is dumb.

Yeah, that sort of thing is to be expected on here unfortunately... All it takes it someone speculating and the person/people reading the post to take it serious then have a fresh rumor that has no reality to it past pure speculation...

GoSpikey
February 5th, 2008, 07:59 AM
Yeah, that sort of thing is to be expected on here unfortunately... All it takes it someone speculating and the person/people reading the post to take it serious then have a fresh rumor that has no reality to it past pure speculation...

Or maybe people just did this on purpose, so it got an answer in that form. :D

It would be very Slytherin. :P

cabouse18
February 5th, 2008, 08:06 AM
whoever made up those rumors is dumb.

I think part of the problem is we are all so hard up for information that is tightly locked away that when someone does report something that might remotely be true or fits with the current direction the season is taking we all jump at it as fact b/c, up until JM's blog last night, we have no way to dispell it. Not to mention the fact that we are all spoiler mongers and constantly need something to discuss;)

GoSpikey
February 5th, 2008, 08:08 AM
Oh yeah, I thought of something silly this morning.

Remember the one teaser line we've gotten, I think, from The Kindred I?

Same as you, scavenging the ruins of a dead world, or something alike?

Does it sound to someone else like something a certain allied Wraith would say to a very hurt non-allied one? Aka Todd to Michael? Maybe Michael asked him what Todd was doing there, and that was the response?

Ever thought about Michael and Todd knowing each other? I think Todd is the oldest of the two, and he's a scientist, but Michael has surprised us all with his quick mind, the way he made those bugs (okay, he had Beckett's help, in a way, same as with the new virus), so maybe he's like an old student of Todd's? Todd being Michael's mentor or something would be cool. Or maybe it's even different, like relatives, or father and son? (Although Todd is green skinned, and Michael is white skinned... So maybe not.)

So, every thought of that path?

Edit: Er, that wasn't The Kindred, was it? But The Last Man? Oopsie :o

Now I need to repost. Pfft.

Nitegate
February 5th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Oh yeah, I thought of something silly this morning.

Remember the one teaser line we've gotten, I think, from The Kindred I?

Same as you, scavenging the ruins of a dead world, or something alike?

Does it sound to someone else like something a certain allied Wraith would say to a very hurt non-allied one? Aka Todd to Michael? Maybe Michael asked him what Todd was doing there, and that was the response?

Ever thought about Michael and Todd knowing each other? I think Todd is the oldest of the two, and he's a scientist, but Michael has surprised us all with his quick mind, the way he made those bugs (okay, he had Beckett's help, in a way, same as with the new virus), so maybe he's like an old student of Todd's? Todd being Michael's mentor or something would be cool. Or maybe it's even different, like relatives, or father and son? (Although Todd is green skinned, and Michael is white skinned... So maybe not.)

So, every thought of that path?

Edit: Er, that wasn't The Kindred, was it? But The Last Man? Oopsie :o

Now I need to repost. Pfft.

Wraith come from bugs, they reproduce like bees or some other insect, so no father or son story HAHAHA

GoSpikey
February 5th, 2008, 01:53 PM
Wraith come from bugs, they reproduce like bees or some other insect, so no father or son story HAHAHA

There might be a difference between making faced and masked people. As long as it doesn't get denied, we keep on talking about it.

Funny how you only address that part. There was more to my post than that, as I actually think I put a question mark behind the part you mention.

cabouse18
February 5th, 2008, 02:03 PM
Wraith come from bugs, they reproduce like bees or some other insect, so no father or son story HAHAHA

We don't know that for sure....we've never actually been told exactly how the Wraith reproduce. The closest we came to seeing something was the cloning facility.

Mitchell82
February 5th, 2008, 02:31 PM
Yeah, that sort of thing is to be expected on here unfortunately... All it takes it someone speculating and the person/people reading the post to take it serious then have a fresh rumor that has no reality to it past pure speculation...

I hate when that happens.

Nitegate
February 5th, 2008, 03:46 PM
There might be a difference between making faced and masked people. As long as it doesn't get denied, we keep on talking about it.

Funny how you only address that part. There was more to my post than that, as I actually think I put a question mark behind the part you mention.

wraith don't **** like humans do, they're bugs from the human DNA that turned them into Wraith. so no brothers or "Todd, I Am Your Father" LMAO.

ciannwn
February 5th, 2008, 03:55 PM
wraith don't **** like humans do, they're bugs from the human DNA that turned them into Wraith. so no brothers or "Todd, I Am Your Father" LMAO.

Many species of bugs mate with the males surviving the experience. If Wraith females lay batches of eggs, Todd might be able to say "(insert 50 names here) I am your father". :D

cabouse18
February 5th, 2008, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by FenRiR FoXz
Yeah, that sort of thing is to be expected on here unfortunately... All it takes it someone speculating and the person/people reading the post to take it serious then have a fresh rumor that has no reality to it past pure speculation...



I hate when that happens.

Unfortunately, it happens all too often.

cabouse18
February 5th, 2008, 04:15 PM
I hate when that happens.


Many species of bugs mate with the males surviving the experience. If Wraith females lay batches of eggs, Todd might be able to say "(insert 50 names here) I am your father". :D

For some reason I have an image of Jack in my head from New Order Pt 2 saying "WHO'S YOUR DADDY?!!" :lol:

GoSpikey
February 5th, 2008, 04:25 PM
Sokar,

Yet again you have not read what I said. I specifically remember starting out with 'maybe they know each other from a past Hive' or something along those lines. Yet you decide to keep on attacking... What? One sentence that I wrote towards the end of my post, and the full sentence implied other things, too?

GoSpikey
February 5th, 2008, 04:31 PM
For some reason I have an image of Jack in my head from New Order Pt 2 saying "WHO'S YOUR DADDY?!!" :lol:

Well, a Wraith still exists of DNA, right? Bummer they didn't catalogue the Wraiths they killed, Queens included. Might have told interesting stories.

And where are the results of those autopsies I suggested? :)

And oh, everyone has heard about them bringing in a new enemy, right?

So does that mean there'll be little Wraith in season 5? But of a bummer after the pretty Wraith-heavy season that was 4.

*Gets kinda worried about that virus now...* Practically no more Wraith left? Mikey taking over at the end of the season? Or Todd? :S

cabouse18
February 5th, 2008, 04:37 PM
Well, a Wraith still exists of DNA, right? Bummer they didn't catalogue the Wraiths they killed, Queens included. Might have told interesting stories.

And where are the results of those autopsies I suggested? :)

And oh, everyone has heard about them bringing in a new enemy, right?

So does that mean there'll be little Wraith in season 5? But of a bummer after the pretty Wraith-heavy season that was 4.

*Gets kinda worried about that virus now...* Practically no more Wraith left? Mikey taking over at the end of the season? Or Todd? :S

well...

if they used the virus again to wipe out the Wraith, Todd and Mikey would both be affected so I am thinking that that won't be the case.

and...

how many enemies do they need? they did the same thing with SG-1 as time went on they made more enemies. I think the Wraith are a diverse and formidable enemy. There are still so many things we don't know about them...so why bring in a new enemy now? Things haven't gotten that stale yet ;)

GoSpikey
February 5th, 2008, 04:43 PM
well...

if they used the virus again to wipe out the Wraith, Todd and Mikey would both be affected so I am thinking that that won't be the case.

and...

how many enemies do they need? they did the same thing with SG-1 as time went on they made more enemies. I think the Wraith are a diverse and formidable enemy. There are still so many things we don't know about them...so why bring in a new enemy now? Things haven't gotten that stale yet ;)

Well, you never know what Mikey did to manipulate it. Or himself. And Todd hopefully is a big boy, and will take care of himself. *Keeps fingers crossed*

Yeah, there's so much about Wraith we do not know, yet, and keeping us argue about it for that long isn't going to do us any good. :)

cabouse18
February 5th, 2008, 04:54 PM
Well, you never know what Mikey did to manipulate it. Or himself. And Todd hopefully is a big boy, and will take care of himself. *Keeps fingers crossed*

Yeah, there's so much about Wraith we do not know, yet, and keeping us argue about it for that long isn't going to do us any good. :)

Sooo true on both counts;)

Nitegate
February 5th, 2008, 05:55 PM
what are with the back to back posts, anyone ever hear of edit :jack_new_anime25::

GoSpikey
February 6th, 2008, 09:13 AM
what are with the back to back posts, anyone ever hear of edit :jack_new_anime25::

You are under no obligation to read the forum, so if you don't like it, get out? ;)

ciannwn
February 6th, 2008, 10:19 AM
Ever thought about Michael and Todd knowing each other?

It's possible that they could have met up in the past. TPTB have established that Wraith can leave one hive and move onto another so they could say that Todd and Michael know each other if they want to.


I think Todd is the oldest of the two, and he's a scientist, but Michael has surprised us all with his quick mind, the way he made those bugs (okay, he had Beckett's help, in a way, same as with the new virus), so maybe he's like an old student of Todd's? Todd being Michael's mentor or something would be cool.

We have no idea if Wraith have mentors but they do seem to have their own version of politics. If TPTB want to they could say that an older Wraith can 'cultivate' a younger one if the latter promises to be useful.


Or maybe it's even different, like relatives, or father and son? (Although Todd is green skinned, and Michael is white skinned... So maybe not.)

If words like father, son, brother etc. are just looked at as describing biological relationships it wouldn't be impossible for Todd and Michael to be related in some way. If Wraith produce faced males by a male mating with a female Todd could be a much older brother due to he and Michael being the results of the same male mating with the same female at different times. Other possibilities for Todd are father, grandfather, cousin, half brother or uncle.

If Queens produce faced males without mating Todd and Michael could still be brothers due to having genetic material from the same Queen. Don't ask me to explain why faced males have different appearance groups if Wraith use this system. They just do because we've seen it on the telly. :D

Mitchell82
February 6th, 2008, 10:42 AM
For some reason I have an image of Jack in my head from New Order Pt 2 saying "WHO'S YOUR DADDY?!!" :lol:

:lol: I love that scene.

GoSpikey
February 6th, 2008, 01:38 PM
If Queens produce faced males without mating Todd and Michael could still be brothers due to having genetic material from the same Queen. Don't ask me to explain why faced males have different appearance groups if Wraith use this system. They just do because we've seen it on the telly. :D

I find it disturbing to have the words mating, Todd, and Michael in one sentence... :o

:D

Jumper_One
February 6th, 2008, 01:40 PM
I find it disturbing to have the words mating, Todd, and Michael in one sentence... :o

:D

:eek: :S

GoSpikey
February 6th, 2008, 02:22 PM
:eek: :S

:lol:

Or should that be:

:indeed:

cabouse18
February 6th, 2008, 02:52 PM
I find it disturbing to have the words mating, Todd, and Michael in one sentence... :o

:D

:S:SOh god yes it is....my eyes are burning from reading it and my head hurts from thinking about it. Oh there will be nightmares tonight :lol:

ciannwn
February 7th, 2008, 01:48 PM
I find it disturbing to have the words mating, Todd, and Michael in one sentence... :o:D

I can just imagine the fanfic. :eek:

GoSpikey
February 7th, 2008, 01:53 PM
I can just imagine the fanfic. :eek:

I'd rather not! :o

There'll be different versions of they knew each other before, or not, I suspect. :D

Fenrir Foxz
February 7th, 2008, 02:07 PM
I can just imagine the fanfic. :eek:

The stuff nightmares are made of :P

GoSpikey
February 7th, 2008, 02:56 PM
The stuff nightmares are made of :P

Now, if we picture *me* in between them...

Sweet Dreams are made of this... :P

Mitchell82
February 7th, 2008, 03:36 PM
The stuff nightmares are made of :P

Not nightmares. These are what makes people go blind.;)

cabouse18
February 7th, 2008, 06:05 PM
Not nightmares. These are what makes people go blind.;)

Yeah...from scratching their eyes out!;)

GoSpikey
February 8th, 2008, 04:25 AM
Yeah...from scratching their eyes out!;)

Oh come on, ma boys aren't that terrible looking... Separately. ;)

cabouse18
February 8th, 2008, 10:54 AM
Oh come on, ma boys aren't that terrible looking... Separately. ;)

No they are not bad looking....I just don't want to think about what their mating rituals might look like;)

GoSpikey
February 8th, 2008, 11:06 AM
I can just imagine the fanfic. :eek:

I was thinking that, if you like want to prove there is no reason at all for them to do that, and you want to do so by using quotes from Google, you may. I won't say anything... Honestly. Please.

:D :D :D

GoSpikey
February 8th, 2008, 11:08 AM
No they are not bad looking....I just don't want to think about what their mating rituals might look like;)

:lol:

I just come up blank. :D

Phew! :cool:

ciannwn
February 8th, 2008, 11:24 AM
I was thinking that, if you like want to prove there is no reason at all for them to do that, and you want to do so by using quotes from Google, you may. I won't say anything... Honestly. Please.

:D :D :D

:lol:

I don't even want to think of some keywords to start a Google search with. :D

Mitchell82
February 8th, 2008, 11:25 AM
No they are not bad looking....I just don't want to think about what their mating rituals might look like;)

Yes I don't want to know.

MaglorAnarion
February 10th, 2008, 03:37 AM
What if the dead world Michael is scavenging is the Hoffan planet that has been destroyed by the Wraith, where he found samples and research of the Wraith-killing drug and used it to create a virus that he spread among human worlds?, that would explain the episode description;

"Dr. Keller discovers that a Wraith-killing protein is infecting thousands of humans, and Teyla convinces Sheppard to join the search for her people."

doylefan22
February 10th, 2008, 03:52 AM
Just been informed by someone who went to the Pegasus 3 event in Heathrow last weekend that the lady that plays the wraith queens (Andrea frizzel?) let slip she is appearing with Trinner at the end of the season.

While she didn't name the episode my guess is that she meant this one as i've not heard of Micheal being in TLM.

As I remember it she was (accidentally!) talking about being in the finale with Connor. She may have been mistaken but she definitely said it was the s4 finale before she looked a little horrified and said she was going to get the sack because she wasn't supposed to tell us that. :)

GoSpikey
February 10th, 2008, 04:55 AM
What if the dead world Michael is scavenging is the Hoffan planet that has been destroyed by the Wraith, where he found samples and research of the Wraith-killing drug and used it to create a virus that he spread among human worlds?, that would explain the episode description;

Or, it's Todd who says that about the Wraith society?

cabouse18
February 10th, 2008, 06:28 PM
What if the dead world Michael is scavenging is the Hoffan planet that has been destroyed by the Wraith, where he found samples and research of the Wraith-killing drug and used it to create a virus that he spread among human worlds?, that would explain the episode description;

It could or Michael could have figured out a way to use the Wraith retro-virus on humans. It was used on him twice after all...And he seems to be a brilliant scientist in his own right so him having come away from the destruction in Misbegotten with some of the retro-virus wouldn't be impossible. He could have been working on it all this time and he created his creatures to protect him while he did.

Remember, smart evil villians never give away ALL of their plans;)

Reiko
February 10th, 2008, 06:33 PM
No they are not bad looking....I just don't want to think about what their mating rituals might look like;)

I do! :wraith37:

Heaven
February 10th, 2008, 08:04 PM
ok, call me pessimist but I'm already detecting a plothole a mile away

Teyla can control a Wraith queen but not Michael ??

Nitegate
February 10th, 2008, 10:09 PM
What if the dead world Michael is scavenging is the Hoffan planet that has been destroyed by the Wraith, where he found samples and research of the Wraith-killing drug and used it to create a virus that he spread among human worlds?, that would explain the episode description;

who said the hoffan planet was even destroyed or wiped out? all they said in the end of "poisoning the well" was that like half the population survived in taking the drug, it was never said that everyone died.

Jeffala
February 10th, 2008, 10:28 PM
who said the hoffan planet was even destroyed or wiped out? all they said in the end of "poisoning the well" was that like half the population survived in taking the drug, it was never said that everyone died.

Why would the Wraith allow any of the immune Hoffans to live? If they did, and the Hoffans advanced technologically, then they would be a threat. Destroy them and there's no danger.

GoSpikey
February 11th, 2008, 02:22 AM
It could or Michael could have figured out a way to use the Wraith retro-virus on humans. It was used on him twice after all...And he seems to be a brilliant scientist in his own right so him having come away from the destruction in Misbegotten with some of the retro-virus wouldn't be impossible. He could have been working on it all this time and he created his creatures to protect him while he did.

Remember, smart evil villians never give away ALL of their plans;)

Er, I think we're about all pretty sure that Michael is pulling a Steve on the Wraith/Humans.

GoSpikey
February 11th, 2008, 02:24 AM
ok, call me pessimist but I'm already detecting a plothole a mile away

Teyla can control a Wraith queen but not Michael ??

The Queen was underfed, I think? She urgently wanted to munch on our favourite Commander, remember? :)

So I think that's the only reason why she could hold her for so long.

And let's not speak about the distance Teyla needed to cross before reaching her mind. Cos then it gets more complicated. ;)

Jersey13
February 11th, 2008, 06:51 AM
No, it was because Teyla is pregnant that she was able to control the Wraith queen. When Michael controlled her mind, she had not become pregnant yet. The queen said herself that it was because of the "two minds".

GoSpikey
February 11th, 2008, 09:52 AM
No, it was because Teyla is pregnant that she was able to control the Wraith queen. When Michael controlled her mind, she had not become pregnant yet. The queen said herself that it was because of the "two minds".

And yet, the baby was just only like a fist big?

cabouse18
February 11th, 2008, 10:17 AM
No, it was because Teyla is pregnant that she was able to control the Wraith queen. When Michael controlled her mind, she had not become pregnant yet. The queen said herself that it was because of the "two minds".


And yet, the baby was just only like a fist big?

Not to mention that she found out the sex of the baby...welll...from the baby apparently! Dude, it is pretty obvious that something fishy is going on and Teyla has taken on Wraith Queens before but the fact that all of a sudden her abilities were sooo much stronger....really tells me there is something we haven't seen and are not privy to yet....I am hoping these two eps explain some of this.

Jumper_One
February 11th, 2008, 01:11 PM
Dr. Keller is perplexed by a mysterious new sickness that has affected a number of planets in the Pegasus Galaxy and threatens to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Further study reveals that it is not a contagion but a human-engineered protein designed to kill a feeding Wraith. Col. Carter and Dr. Keller realize that someone is intentionally infecting the Wraith's food supplies with no concern for the thousands of human carriers who are dying in the process.

Meanwhile, Teyla shares with Dr. McKay a vision she had in which Kanaan, the father of her child, was trying to send her a message that he is still alive. Now, more determined than ever to find him and the other missing Athosians, she convinces Sheppard to travel with her to a trading settlement in search for answers. What they find there leads them to startling discovery that no one could have anticipated.

Everyone on Atlantis is surprised to learn that a friend, once thought dead, is miraculously back among them. A captive Teyla, meanwhile, is reunited with her missing fellow Athosians who have also been interned at one of Michael's secret facilities. Ever hopeful that Sheppard will be able to mount a rescue, she begins to formulate a plan to ensure their escape, if he is able to find them in time.
http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/02/new_details_on_the_kindred.shtml

Mitchell82
February 11th, 2008, 01:26 PM
As I remember it she was (accidentally!) talking about being in the finale with Connor. She may have been mistaken but she definitely said it was the s4 finale before she looked a little horrified and said she was going to get the sack because she wasn't supposed to tell us that. :)

Yeah she goofed a bit.

cabouse18
February 11th, 2008, 02:25 PM
Dr. Keller is perplexed by a mysterious new sickness that has affected a number of planets in the Pegasus Galaxy and threatens to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Further study reveals that it is not a contagion but a human-engineered protein designed to kill a feeding Wraith. Col. Carter and Dr. Keller realize that someone is intentionally infecting the Wraith's food supplies with no concern for the thousands of human carriers who are dying in the process.

Meanwhile, Teyla shares with Dr. McKay a vision she had in which Kanaan, the father of her child, was trying to send her a message that he is still alive. Now, more determined than ever to find him and the other missing Athosians, she convinces Sheppard to travel with her to a trading settlement in search for answers. What they find there leads them to startling discovery that no one could have anticipated.

Everyone on Atlantis is surprised to learn that a friend, once thought dead, is miraculously back among them. A captive Teyla, meanwhile, is reunited with her missing fellow Athosians who have also been interned at one of Michael's secret facilities. Ever hopeful that Sheppard will be able to mount a rescue, she begins to formulate a plan to ensure their escape, if he is able to find them in time.

http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/02/new_details_on_the_kindred.shtml

Sounds interesting....and once again how the hell are we supposed to expect that Kanan has nothing to do with the bad guys if this supposed vison of Teyla's leads her into a trap?? C'mon, seriously.....the dude is a bad guy; he has to be. And how the hell does she have a vision? This ep needs to air soo all these damn questions can finally be answered. This is a little out of whack, even for this show!!!

Bet you any amount of money Michael is behind the contagion. I can see him doing it even though he is Wraith only b/c he is soooo pissed off at both sides for screwing him in some way; so he sees the contagion as a way of getting rid of all the people he wants revenge against while in the process luring Teyla out in the open so he can catch her.....it is the only reason I could see as to why he took the Athosian's in the first place; to catch Teyla.

Gaeth
February 12th, 2008, 05:36 AM
ok, call me pessimist but I'm already detecting a plothole a mile away

Teyla can control a Wraith queen but not Michael ??

Like others have said the Wraith queen was starving and exhausted and Teyla was pregers so she had 2 minds networked to attack the queen, plus whatever hormones she has going through her.

Also has anyone noticed that Michael seems to be a better telepath than most Wraith? He took over Teyla's mind without her trying to contact him first (that we know of), he 'hacked' Becket's mind to find out about that bomb, and he took over the mind of that Marine to get him to radio Atlantis.

GoSpikey
February 12th, 2008, 06:51 AM
Like others have said the Wraith queen was starving and exhausted and Teyla was pregers so she had 2 minds networked to attack the queen, plus whatever hormones she has going through her.

Also has anyone noticed that Michael seems to be a better telepath than most Wraith? He took over Teyla's mind without her trying to contact him first (that we know of), he 'hacked' Becket's mind to find out about that bomb, and he took over the mind of that Marine to get him to radio Atlantis.

I thought of that one on the bathroom like half an hour/an hour ago? Lol.

Especially with Todd going all 'Impossible' on Teyla for taking over that Queen. Might be that Teyla is very good now, better than a Wraith? But if that means she's better than Michael... Hopefully she'll try? It would be interesting to see.

Jersey13
February 12th, 2008, 07:15 AM
Perhaps Michael is simply the least disgusted by the act of touching the minds of humans with his telepathic abilities in order to fulfill to his own agendas? As most Wraith seem like they view themselves as being superior to humans (we are merely a food source to them), perhaps they might view us as too 'unclean' to touch our minds, much as how they began to see Michael as inferior since he'd been turned into a human by the retrovirus. I think Michael may have been desperate enough that he just didn't care whose mind he had to break to get what he wanted.

GoSpikey
February 12th, 2008, 07:20 AM
Er, if Michael's mind is linked to all those creatures, is that like kinda getting a lot of power from them, too? Like Teyla gets from her child?

And if Kanaan (guess it's spelled like that?) 'calls' Teyla, can't Michael detect that?

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 11:11 AM
Er, if Michael's mind is linked to all those creatures, is that like kinda getting a lot of power from them, too? Like Teyla gets from her child?

And if Kanaan (guess it's spelled like that?) 'calls' Teyla, can't Michael detect that?

I think Michael is the one who sets that up....how else would Kanan be able to contact Teyla? If Kanan had the wraith gene like Teyla did, I think she would have said something by now about it. Kanan is working for the bad guy....willingly or not he is definately not all he appears to be, IMO.

GoSpikey
February 12th, 2008, 11:17 AM
I think Michael is the one who sets that up....how else would Kanan be able to contact Teyla? If Kanan had the wraith gene like Teyla did, I think she would have said something by now about it. Kanan is working for the bad guy....willingly or not he is definately not all he appears to be, IMO.

Yup, that's why I say that Michael should be able to detect it... So as in 'he's doing it himself'. Kanaan could never be powerful enough to do that. After all, he's not preggers, is he? Lol.

Unless they make up that baby is looking for daddy? *Snort*

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 11:48 AM
Yup, that's why I say that Michael should be able to detect it... So as in 'he's doing it himself'. Kanaan could never be powerful enough to do that. After all, he's not preggers, is he? Lol.

Unless they make up that baby is looking for daddy? *Snort*

Oh Good Lord....that would be soooooo cliched and I really hope that isn't the case!!

Unless the whole thing is in Teyla's head...b/c she is *so* desperate to find Kanan and her people?? I still find it more believable that Michael instigates and/or is behind the whole thing; all the way back to pregnancy.

GoSpikey
February 12th, 2008, 12:28 PM
Oh Good Lord....that would be soooooo cliched and I really hope that isn't the case!!

Unless the whole thing is in Teyla's head...b/c she is *so* desperate to find Kanan and her people?? I still find it more believable that Michael instigates and/or is behind the whole thing; all the way back to pregnancy.

I know that a group of Wraith can contact the nearest Hive so they'll be picked up, like in Misbegotten, but the group was pretty big, and the Hive arrived from Hyperspace and hours later, I think? So they weren't that near, and it took a large group.

Kanaan's gift would have to be incredibly trained for him to get to Teyla, and Teyla's would have to be, too? Of course, she knows she's been carrying a boy from when she was 3 months along, so I'm thinking she's been practicing with him, but still... They probably aren't near each other, so it should be impossible...

Michael, on the other hand, really wants Teyla to come for her people (I hope he's been waiting for a long time already ^^, and that he's growing a bit impatient. And that he's shocked she's preggers!) He could have tried to contact her multiple times already, from multiple places in the galaxy... And bam! He succeeds. He's already shown he can easily overpower her, sending a so called vision her way would be easy for him? And she'll fall for it cos she's indeed getting more desperate by the minute. Baby will be almost there, and daddy might not even know about it. Talk about 'surprise!' when you see each other again! :D

Gaeth
February 12th, 2008, 12:54 PM
I know that a group of Wraith can contact the nearest Hive so they'll be picked up, like in Misbegotten, but the group was pretty big, and the Hive arrived from Hyperspace and hours later, I think? So they weren't that near, and it took a large group.

Kanaan's gift would have to be incredibly trained for him to get to Teyla, and Teyla's would have to be, too? Of course, she knows she's been carrying a boy from when she was 3 months along, so I'm thinking she's been practicing with him, but still... They probably aren't near each other, so it should be impossible...
:D

Now that really makes me think it is Michael trying to contact her. Assuming those Iratus people have at least some telepathic ability he could have networked with all of them to contact her and masquerade as her baby daddy.

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Now that really makes me think it is Michael trying to contact her. Assuming those Iratus people have at least some telepathic ability he could have networked with all of them to contact her and masquerade as her baby daddy.

Because the kid is more than likely an experiment of his and he wants it back....OR, he has interrogated Kanan and knows how important Teyla is to him so he uses him as a pawn to get his hands on her. But I think Kanan has been Michael's tool all the long.

prion
February 12th, 2008, 03:38 PM
TV GUIDE description of KINDRED, part I
February 22nd

In the first half of a two-part tale, Teyla believes that the father of her child, Kanaan, is still alive after seeing him in a vision and she enlists Sheppard's help in locating her fellow Athosians. Meanwhile, Dr. Keller and Carter discover that a protein engineered to kill the Wraith is killing humans in the Pegasus Galaxy. 2 new episodes remain.

And they stuck a picture of Paul McGilion in the TV Guide too!

http://wraithfodder.livejournal.com/173740.html

Ltcolshepjumper
February 12th, 2008, 04:04 PM
I know that a group of Wraith can contact the nearest Hive so they'll be picked up, like in Misbegotten, but the group was pretty big, and the Hive arrived from Hyperspace and hours later, I think? So they weren't that near, and it took a large group.

Kanaan's gift would have to be incredibly trained for him to get to Teyla, and Teyla's would have to be, too? Of course, she knows she's been carrying a boy from when she was 3 months along, so I'm thinking she's been practicing with him, but still... They probably aren't near each other, so it should be impossible...

Michael, on the other hand, really wants Teyla to come for her people (I hope he's been waiting for a long time already ^^, and that he's growing a bit impatient. And that he's shocked she's preggers!) He could have tried to contact her multiple times already, from multiple places in the galaxy... And bam! He succeeds. He's already shown he can easily overpower her, sending a so called vision her way would be easy for him? And she'll fall for it cos she's indeed getting more desperate by the minute. Baby will be almost there, and daddy might not even know about it. Talk about 'surprise!' when you see each other again! :D

Michael could have helped him.

GoSpikey
February 12th, 2008, 04:30 PM
Michael could have helped him.

And with his pets behind him, Kanaan might even not have noticed! :cool:

Silly him.

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 04:37 PM
And with his pets behind him, Kanaan might even not have noticed! :cool:

Silly him.

Kanan was probably wondering if they were biters before he thought of any evil doing;)

GoSpikey
February 12th, 2008, 04:41 PM
Kanan was probably wondering if they were biters before he thought of any evil doing;)

'His pets' meaning Michael's... :)

Can't wait for the eps, really! :D

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 04:52 PM
'His pets' meaning Michael's... :)

Can't wait for the eps, really! :D

Yeah...Kanan was probably wondering if they bit!;)

I know these two eps are not coming fast enough....we can totally skip over Midway!:)

GoSpikey
February 12th, 2008, 05:03 PM
Yeah...Kanan was probably wondering if they bit!;)

I know these two eps are not coming fast enough....we can totally skip over Midway!:)

Nooo... It all starts at Midway... *shiftyeyes*

Hopefully it'll keep us occupied till next week! :D

Gaeth
February 12th, 2008, 06:18 PM
Because the kid is more than likely an experiment of his and he wants it back....OR, he has interrogated Kanan and knows how important Teyla is to him so he uses him as a pawn to get his hands on her. But I think Kanan has been Michael's tool all the long.

Or maybe Kanan is Michael! Just kidding, but it would be amusing for a moment to see Michael rip off his "Kanan" mask and say "Aha! It was I all along! And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!"

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 06:32 PM
Or maybe Kanan is Michael! Just kidding, but it would be amusing for a moment to see Michael rip off his "Kanan" mask and say "Aha! It was I all along! And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!"

Scooby Dooby Doooooooooooooo!!!!!! :lol:

Fenrir Foxz
February 12th, 2008, 06:51 PM
Or maybe Kanan is Michael! Just kidding, but it would be amusing for a moment to see Michael rip off his "Kanan" mask and say "Aha! It was I all along! And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!"


Scooby Dooby Doooooooooooooo!!!!!! :lol:

:lol: :D

Scrappy Doo: "Puppy POWER!!!" :P

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 06:54 PM
:lol: :D

Scrappy Doo: "Puppy POWER!!!" :P

:lol: I am a Scooby Doo fanatic!:)

Fenrir Foxz
February 12th, 2008, 07:04 PM
:lol: I am a Scooby Doo fanatic!:)

Yup, nothing wrong with that ;) I used to watch it sometimes...

I've always wanted a dog like Scooby, just didn't like the idea of several long walks a day :S :)

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 07:32 PM
Yup, nothing wrong with that ;) I used to watch it sometimes...

I've always wanted a dog like Scooby, just didn't like the idea of several long walks a day :S :)

Great Dane's are huge! A small child could ride them!;) I have a small dog, thank god...I don't want an animal that when on it hine legs is taller than I am :lol:

Fenrir Foxz
February 12th, 2008, 07:41 PM
Great Dane's are huge! A small child could ride them!;) I have a small dog, thank god...I don't want an animal that when on it hine legs is taller than I am :lol:

Yup, doubt I could handle a dog that big... it would take a lot of training aswell :)

I wonder if they have Cat-like or Dog-like animals in the pegasus galaxy...

Gaeth
February 12th, 2008, 08:12 PM
Great Dane's are huge! A small child could ride them!;) I have a small dog, thank god...I don't want an animal that when on it hine legs is taller than I am :lol:

I've heard Great Dane's are very gentle. They need a breed of dog as big as a horse so I can ride it like a Worg from Lord of the Rings.


Yup, doubt I could handle a dog that big... it would take a lot of training aswell :)

I wonder if they have Cat-like or Dog-like animals in the pegasus galaxy...

If they don't it would sure make life alot harder for a primitive society. Maybe if all the humans in Pegasus had dogs, cats, horses, and cattle they wouldn't have so low a population numbers. Now you've got me wandering if they have potatoes, tomatoes, or corn. On earth not everybody had them until after Columbus. Maybe the expedition could give some seeds and livestock to Pegasus humans so they could bulk up their numbers after Michael kills so many of them.

Fenrir Foxz
February 12th, 2008, 08:50 PM
I've heard Great Dane's are very gentle. They need a breed of dog as big as a horse so I can ride it like a Worg from Lord of the Rings.

:lol: That would be really funny to see :D


If they don't it would sure make life alot harder for a primitive society. Maybe if all the humans in Pegasus had dogs, cats, horses, and cattle they wouldn't have so low a population numbers. Now you've got me wandering if they have potatoes, tomatoes, or corn. On earth not everybody had them until after Columbus. Maybe the expedition could give some seeds and livestock to Pegasus humans so they could bulk up their numbers after Michael kills so many of them.

Yeah it does open up a whole world of possibilities... I would imagine because the human life in the pegasus are so similar to us chances are crops and vegitation would be somewhat similar to the stuff we have here on Earth... I would really like to see the animals in pegasus to be mentioned at some point or even shown, it would add a nice little extra realism, perhaps the Athosians could have pets similar to Cats or Dogs... :)

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
February 14th, 2008, 04:01 PM
I think the Kindred will Be a Very Good Two Parter. Carson's Return. Michael's return. Teyla Finding her people.

Mitchell82
February 14th, 2008, 05:34 PM
:lol: I am a Scooby Doo fanatic!:)

How about "Here I come to save the day!" Green for whoever figures that out.

Jeffala
February 14th, 2008, 05:35 PM
How about "Here I come to save the day!" Green for whoever figures that out.

LOL Mighty Mouse?

Mitchell82
February 14th, 2008, 05:38 PM
LOL Mighty Mouse?

Yup! Here comes Mighty Carson!

Jeffala
February 14th, 2008, 05:49 PM
It's been forever since I thought about Mighty Mouse.

And Carson needs a cape if he's going to be going around saving the day.

cabouse18
February 14th, 2008, 06:29 PM
LOL Mighty Mouse?

I loved watching that cartoon!! Ahh those were the days;)

Mitchell82
February 14th, 2008, 06:31 PM
I loved watching that cartoon!! Ahh those were the days;)

:indeed: Hard to believe how the world changed so much.

cabouse18
February 14th, 2008, 07:12 PM
:indeed: Hard to believe how the world changed so much.

How old are you? out curiosity...I am 27 :D

GoSpikey
February 15th, 2008, 11:23 AM
How old are you? out curiosity...I am 27 :D

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/images/419_02.jpg.shtml

If that's Kanaan, then why isn't Teyla showing him her happy face?

And it kind of looks like he's being interrogated?

Maybe he's working for/with Mikey after all? :D

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 01:38 PM
http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/images/419_02.jpg.shtml

If that's Kanaan, then why isn't Teyla showing him her happy face?

And it kind of looks like he's being interrogated?

Maybe he's working for/with Mikey after all? :D

If that isn't Kanan it might the contact she goes to see. The one Kanan apparantly tells her has info on her missing people...which again screams TRAP to me but apparently not to them and the naively go to the planet, putting her out in the open for Michael to come and get;) If it is Kanan, then he is definately a bad guy and the look on her face tells us that....but I think it is the former not the latter.

Ya know the fact that no one questions any of the odd goings on surrounding Teyla and this pregnancy makes my head ache. I mean c'mon these people ARE always suspicious of everything around and they ignore some of the odd things like her enhanced Wraith ability, her ability to know what sex her kid is before Keller, and now this so called vision. Under any other circumstances a big RED flag would have gone up but not this time!! :rolleyes:

GoSpikey
February 15th, 2008, 02:12 PM
If that isn't Kanan it might the contact she goes to see. The one Kanan apparantly tells her has info on her missing people...which again screams TRAP to me but apparently not to them and the naively go to the planet, putting her out in the open for Michael to come and get;) If it is Kanan, then he is definately a bad guy and the look on her face tells us that....but I think it is the former not the latter.

Ya know the fact that no one questions any of the odd goings on surrounding Teyla and this pregnancy makes my head ache. I mean c'mon these people ARE always suspicious of everything around and they ignore some of the odd things like her enhanced Wraith ability, her ability to know what sex her kid is before Keller, and now this so called vision. Under any other circumstances a big RED flag would have gone up but not this time!! :rolleyes:

*Snort*

She was going to see a contact? Funny. That does spell trap. And then we won't be seeing Michael in the first half, or something, either, right? Till he takes her? Pfft.

Bambam plays Kanaan, I think? Doesn't he have curly hair? If they cast a second one like that, it's more confusing...

PG15
February 15th, 2008, 03:59 PM
Well, Kanan is played by some guy who was also in 300, right?

I think I found him (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1150775/).

GoSpikey
February 15th, 2008, 04:06 PM
Well, Kanan is played by some guy who was also in 300, right?

I think I found him (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1150775/).

So Bambam is the contact? :S

Mitchell82
February 15th, 2008, 04:34 PM
How old are you? out curiosity...I am 27 :D

Old....I'm 40.

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 04:36 PM
Well, Kanan is played by some guy who was also in 300, right?

I think I found him (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1150775/).

Rachel did say Kanan would be an actor from 300 and while we only have a pic of his profile...that guy does look like he would fit the pic....not bad looking either;)

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 04:37 PM
Old....I'm 40.

That is not that old...;)

Mitchell82
February 15th, 2008, 04:41 PM
That is not that old...;)

Yeah I've still got zip.;)

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 05:14 PM
Yeah I've still got zip.;)

:lol: You are not old....60 is old. 40 is not! How is that?;)


Did anyone see the promo for this ep?
Replicator trap?? How the hell did they get inolved? How exactly does Michael fit in then? Is anyone else massively confused now?

cajuncayenne
February 15th, 2008, 08:47 PM
according to sci fi spoiler this pm, this epi is mostly about Teyla and her baby. Carson will only be in the last 5 minutes. You got to see the baby's father in the preview but I can't connect him to anything.

jelgate
February 15th, 2008, 08:52 PM
The people at SciFi are morons. Apparently the Asurans kidnapped Becett and not Micheal. Kindred I is suppose to be about Teyla and part II features Beckett

Willow'sCat
February 15th, 2008, 09:13 PM
The people at SciFi are morons. Apparently the Asurans kidnapped Becett and not Micheal. Kindred I is suppose to be about Teyla and part II features Beckett
We already knew *didn't we* that Beckett would only turn up in the last few minutes of Kindred I as that is the way TV does these kinds of big reveals. ;)

Who kidnapped who? The Replicators? What?

OMG! Beckett is a Replicator! *nods* I knew it! :p

cajuncayenne
February 15th, 2008, 09:32 PM
I thought I heard sci fi say a replicator trap but I really expected Michael to be involved because in Kindred 2 isn't Teyla with Michael? Mybe Sci Fi got it wrong? I got pulled in to that whole 2 episodes for Carson when in fact all we got was a season 4 Weir type thing.

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 09:32 PM
We already knew *didn't we* that Beckett would only turn up in the last few minutes of Kindred I as that is the way TV does these kinds of big reveals. ;)

Who kidnapped who? The Replicators? What?

OMG! Beckett is a Replicator! *nods* I knew it! :p

Again...massively confused!!;) Seriously what the hell? It is nice to know that I am not the only one who is like WTF!!!! lol

Yeah Beckett showing up in the last 5 mins was totally predicted...but if Teyla is kidnapped by the replicators (???) where the hell does Michael come into play?

So you can see where I might be confused;)

jelgate
February 15th, 2008, 09:43 PM
It wouldn't be the first time SciFi messed up on a promo.

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 10:08 PM
It wouldn't be the first time SciFi messed up on a promo.

Nope. I think last season for the promo for "The Road not Taken" for SG-1 the narrator said 'Amanda' instead of Sam/Carter....so I wouldn't be surprised if it was an accident but then again, I would be surprised if the replicators do have something to do with it...

Willow'sCat
February 15th, 2008, 11:08 PM
I got pulled in to that whole 2 episodes for Carson when in fact all we got was a season 4 Weir type thing.Don't aim too high and you will not be disappointed. An appearance *or episode* can mean 2 seconds to 20 minutes. That goes double when they are only a re-occurring character. ;):)

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
February 15th, 2008, 11:15 PM
So i kinda got a picture of this two parter. I kinda of think of it as SG-1's Season Two " The Tok'ra" where carter has a vision instead of carter it's teyla. and I got to admit when the atlantis team goes to find the athosians its going to be awesome cause that's going to be a pivotal scene.

Willow'sCat
February 15th, 2008, 11:15 PM
SciFi has the promo up now:

SPOILERS!

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=218243

I see what you mean... It is a Wraith Dart, she is having visions about Kannan? Oh and yeah they give away the ending! What a bunch of tools. :P

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 11:23 PM
SciFi has the promo up now:

SPOILERS!

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=218243

I see what you mean... It is a Wraith Dart, she is having visions about Kannan? Oh and yeah they give away the ending! What a bunch of tools. :P

Basically!! ;) I mean ok, we have replicators...fine I can buy that. But how do we go from Replicators to Michael?? Unless he simply shows up out of nowhere...unless we are talking about two separate events coming together....holy cow, I think it is finally starting to actually make sense!!! :eek:

Nitegate
February 15th, 2008, 11:37 PM
it had nothing to do with replicators on the preview, it said replicators, then it shows first a wraith hive, then a dart, it's WRAITH, it's a messed up promo.

Gaeth
February 15th, 2008, 11:54 PM
Nope. I think last season for the promo for "The Road not Taken" for SG-1 the narrator said 'Amanda' instead of Sam/Carter....so I wouldn't be surprised if it was an accident but then again, I would be surprised if the replicators do have something to do with it...

I don't think it's an accident I went frame by frame through the promo and it looks like an asuran firing an asuran weapon in an unfamiliar scene. It actually looked like the one who killed clone Shepard. Ugh, I wish those things would go away for a long time. A long, long time....



Ya know the fact that no one questions any of the odd goings on surrounding Teyla and this pregnancy makes my head ache. I mean c'mon these people ARE always suspicious of everything around and they ignore some of the odd things like her enhanced Wraith ability, her ability to know what sex her kid is before Keller, and now this so called vision. Under any other circumstances a big RED flag would have gone up but not this time!! :rolleyes:

They probably just figured that her son has the same abilities that she does. That way they could team up against common threats. Or maybe pregnancy is affecting her brain chemistry. Despite the fact that other people in the galaxy have her ability, few of them get to use it and live (i.e. fly a Wraith ship, or have mental combat with a Wraith queen). So they don't have a 'control group' to compare her situation to. As for the vision, I haven't seen the episode yet so I don't know how they'll react.

Willow'sCat
February 16th, 2008, 12:02 AM
Hmm, the guy firing at Lorne looks like he is wearing Replicator clothing. I knew it Carson is a Replicator... or dead Carson was a Replicator! I knew it! :PThe plot thickens. ;)

Gaeth
February 16th, 2008, 12:08 AM
Hmm, the guy firing at Lorne looks like he is wearing Replicator clothing. I knew it Carson is a Replicator... or dead Carson was a Replicator! I knew it! :PThe plot thickens. ;)


Oh I've got it, the Asurans made a copy of Becket and the copy is the one who died, since they said the Becket comeback wouldn't be a clone. Michael got ahold of the original for some nefarious purpose and that's how they tie in....That's a guess.

Tupopoflungo
February 16th, 2008, 01:32 AM
forgive me if this has been discussed before but i just noticed something

Kindred spoilers:

In the episode's spoilers section on GW, it states

Dr. Keller (http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/characters/links/kellerjennifer.shtml) is perplexed by a mysterious new sickness that has affected a number of planets in the Pegasus Galaxy and threatens to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Further study reveals that it is not a contagion but a human-engineered protein designed to kill a feeding Wraith



im curious if this is the same protein perhaps used to by the hoffans in "Poisoning the well"
Quote From “Poisoning The Well”

PERNA: The key. (She opens the book.) His journals tell of one man who survived an encounter with the Wraith. Ferrel and his team discovered that this man possessed a unique protein, one that enabled him to resist the chemical released by the Wraith to precipitate draining of life from their victims. After painstaking trial and error ...

BECKETT (looking at the book): Ferrel made a copy of the protein.

PERNA: He was eventually able to create a prototype of a drug designed to interfere with the Wraith feeding process.


You know what happens in that episode right?

½ the people given the drug die…and it kills any wraith that try to feed on those who got the drug…


considering carson's extensive help with that drug, and considering the effects appear to be the same, could it not have been michael's plot all along? to wipe out all the other wraith using this drug?


Again, sorry if this has been discussed, i am new to this particular thread...

metabog
February 16th, 2008, 01:56 AM
OMG the plot thickens. Now we have replicators and wraith and Carson and tayla's baby and kanan in the same episode :D :D

ciannwn
February 16th, 2008, 06:18 AM
They probably just figured that her son has the same abilities that she does. That way they could team up against common threats.

Her son is a fetus around three months old in 'Spoils Of War'. I'll paste in a few my thoughts about this from another post.

Everyone thinks Teyla's baby is human with, perhaps, a bit of Wraith DNA which will give it Wraith telepathic abilities once it's brain is fully developed. What they'd be expecting the fetus to be like at Teyla's stage of pregnancy would be something on these lines depending on how many weeks 'about three months' actually is. This could be 12, 13 or maybe 14 weeks. (15 weeks would be nearer four months.)

http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/002398.htm

This page has further links to a bit of extra detail. I won't give every single link but people can double check things for themselves if they want to.

It's between 3 and 6 inches long. It's learned how to make a fist and suck its thumb. It's got some kind of a brain but it's still rudimentary at the moment - it won't enter the rapid brain development stage until around week 25. If it's got Wraith DNA the part of its brain responsible for 'telepathic abilities' should also be in a rudimentary state.

The Queen tells Teyla - "You cannot resist me for long. Combined, your two minds are very powerful.."

If Teyla mentioned that her baby's mind helped her to control the Queen, someone ought to be thinking this is a bit odd. A human fetus between 12 and 14 weeks old doesn't have a brain capable of producing much in the way of mind let alone one which is powerful enough to help Teyla overcome a Wraith Queen.


Or maybe pregnancy is affecting her brain chemistry. Despite the fact that other people in the galaxy have her ability, few of them get to use it and live (i.e. fly a Wraith ship, or have mental combat with a Wraith queen). So they don't have a 'control group' to compare her situation to.

That would make more sense than everyone thinking a three month old fetus would have the same abilities as its adult mother. Maybe Teyla didn't report the full details of what happened to her in 'Spoils' so nobody knows what the Queen said. If she did give a full report, though, everyone would have to be thinking that the Queen was lying in order to carry on believing it was all down to Teyla's own brain chemistry.

Pharaoh Atem
February 16th, 2008, 07:58 AM
OMG the plot thickens. Now we have replicators and wraith and Carson and tayla's baby and kanan in the same episode :D :D

2 episodes :ronan:

cabouse18
February 16th, 2008, 08:42 AM
it had nothing to do with replicators on the preview, it said replicators, then it shows first a wraith hive, then a dart, it's WRAITH, it's a messed up promo.

I think the Replicators do have something to do in the ep....but yeah it was a little confusing b/c we saw the hive ship and dart. What confuses me is how all this seemingly ties together?? I mean as far as promo's go, that one was kind of short and very confusing....but TPTB have been extremely tighted lipped about these two eps....I am just more confused and perplexed about this ep than I was before we saw the promo!

MGM's Stargate site has some pics up for the ep

Kindered Stills (http://stargate.mgm.com/stills.php)

And even after seeing them.....still confused;)

Darren
February 16th, 2008, 09:37 AM
The new MGM stills show Kanaan's funeral pyre, so from the looks of it the guy in the new GW pics is Kanaan.

They also show Teyla waking up in a bed in the forest (the bed is in the background of one of the GW pics) and meeting Kanaan. This seems to be a dream or vision -- so either this is the initial vision which brings the team to the planet where they witness his funeral, or they go there, see him burned, and then Teyla has a second dream/vision of him.

[EDIT: From the SCI FI preview, it looks like this scene is the initial vision of Kanaan. I'd guess that by the time they show up and find where he's been, he's probably already a goner.]

Either way ... SPOILERS for Season Five's "Search and Rescue" --
He appears in "Search and Rescue," so he's either not really dead or he gets resurrected. Or cloned. Or sci-fi plot device'd.

Vala_M
February 16th, 2008, 09:45 AM
There aren't any Asurans in the episode, they just messed up the voice over.

Vala,

Vala_M
February 16th, 2008, 09:45 AM
forgive me if this has been discussed before but i just noticed something

Kindred spoilers:

In the episode's spoilers section on GW, it states

[/B]
im curious if this is the same protein perhaps used to by the hoffans in "Poisoning the well"
Quote From “Poisoning The Well”

PERNA: The key. (She opens the book.) His journals tell of one man who survived an encounter with the Wraith. Ferrel and his team discovered that this man possessed a unique protein, one that enabled him to resist the chemical released by the Wraith to precipitate draining of life from their victims. After painstaking trial and error ...

BECKETT (looking at the book): Ferrel made a copy of the protein.

PERNA: He was eventually able to create a prototype of a drug designed to interfere with the Wraith feeding process.


You know what happens in that episode right?

½ the people given the drug die…and it kills any wraith that try to feed on those who got the drug…


considering carson's extensive help with that drug, and considering the effects appear to be the same, could it not have been michael's plot all along? to wipe out all the other wraith using this drug?


Again, sorry if this has been discussed, i am new to this particular thread...

That's what I was thinking as well.

Vala,

GoSpikey
February 16th, 2008, 10:07 AM
That's what I was thinking as well.

Vala,

Ya think? ;)

I did long ago mentioned 'Michael is pulling a Steve'. :p

cabouse18
February 16th, 2008, 10:49 AM
The new MGM stills show Kanaan's funeral pyre, so from the looks of it the guy in the new GW pics is Kanaan.

They also show Teyla waking up in a bed in the forest (the bed is in the background of one of the GW pics) and meeting Kanaan. This seems to be a dream or vision -- so either this is the initial vision which brings the team to the planet where they witness his funeral, or they go there, see him burned, and then Teyla has a second dream/vision of him.

[EDIT: From the SCI FI preview, it looks like this scene is the initial vision of Kanaan. I'd guess that by the time they show up and find where he's been, he's probably already a goner.]

Either way ... SPOILERS for Season Five's "Search and Rescue" --
He appears in "Search and Rescue," so he's either not really dead or he gets resurrected. Or cloned. Or sci-fi plot device'd.


I think you have nailed it on the head!!;)

I don't think he is really dead in this ep. But if he does die; have no doubt that Michael probably has something to do with his resurrection;)



There aren't any Asurans in the episode, they just messed up the voice over.

Vala,

Are you sure?? I mean it is not as if Scifi hasn't screwed up the promos before...."Road Not Taken" for SG-1 is good example where the voice over said 'Amanda' and not Carter or Sam. But how do you know for sure the Ausrans aren't in the ep???

EDIT

Ok ya know what Vala? I think you are right.....b/c I just watched the promo on MGM's site....

There are no mentions of Aurans but Wraith Worshippers instead...so I think you might be right. I recommend checking it out...it totally different than the scifi one. MGM Stargate site (http://stargate.mgm.com/)

Mitchell82
February 16th, 2008, 12:57 PM
It wouldn't be the first time SciFi messed up on a promo.

The scifi announcer guy is as dumb as scifi themselves. Believe me Michael is involved not Replicators.

Platschu
February 16th, 2008, 01:01 PM
As I saw Teyla in the bed between the trees, my first thought was: "Will the Nox appear?" :lol:

GoSpikey
February 16th, 2008, 02:37 PM
As I saw Teyla in the bed between the trees, my first thought was: "Will the Nox appear?" :lol:

My first thought was: "Why the *cough* is it standing there?"

And my second, appeared immediately after the first, went like this: "Ew! TMI!"

:D

cabouse18
February 16th, 2008, 02:43 PM
My first thought was: "Why the *cough* is it standing there?"

And my second, appeared immediately after the first, went like this: "Ew! TMI!"

:D

:lol:

GoSpikey
February 16th, 2008, 02:48 PM
I think you have nailed it on the head!!;)

He appears in "Search and Rescue," so he's either not really dead or he gets resurrected. Or cloned. Or sci-fi plot device'd.

I don't think he is really dead in this ep. But if he does die; have no doubt that Michael probably has something to do with his resurrection;)

Do you like dare to go any further with that thought?

Do you think Michael's bugs need human food? Michael sure needs it, unless he's too human now. Maybe he thought about cloning them to get it? If he's got the power to clone, he doesn't need to draw further attention to himself by making a lot of people disappear. Every couple of months, if that? Maybe he even plans to clone Teyla, and send one version back to Atlantis, so they'd think there's nothing wrong with her? And keep the other one a prisoner, to watch her (the original one?) suffer, watch her people die over and over and over again? Or he just wants to train her as his. :o

But then it would of course be stupid to go ahead with his 'let's kill the Wraith' plan now.

Hmmm. :cool:

GoSpikey
February 16th, 2008, 02:50 PM
:lol:

I don't wanna know about 'the making of...' :D

Definitely when it's not Michael's... Or I could tolerate John... :P

GoSpikey
February 16th, 2008, 03:00 PM
The scifi announcer guy is as dumb as scifi themselves. Believe me Michael is involved not Replicators.

I agree it'll get very complicated if Replicators were part of the ep, too. But look at this:

http://lelianamckay.livejournal.com/16427.html

Scroll down to the 'Carson storyline' and look at, I think, the third pic + comment on it.

The post itself is the season 4 part II trailer screencapped.

So, we'll know next week? :)

cabouse18
February 16th, 2008, 03:03 PM
I agree it'll get very complicated if Replicators were part of the ep, too. But look at this:

http://lelianamckay.livejournal.com/16427.html

Scroll down to the 'Carson storyline' and look at, I think, the third pic + comment on it.

The post itself is the season 4 part II trailer screencapped.

So, we'll know next week? :)

I am just going to stand by my original statement of "Massively Confused" until we see this ep....mainly b/c that is what I am :p

GoSpikey
February 16th, 2008, 03:29 PM
I am just going to stand by my original statement of "Massively Confused" until we see this ep....mainly b/c that is what I am :p

Lol, yeah.

You know, if Todd and Michael are working somehow together (how come Todd was still alive when the other Wraith apparently weren't?) then splitting the team up is a great way of having more success.

Teyla, Sam and others go after Kanaan who was captured by Michael?

Shep, Ronon, Rodney (I think?) go meet Todd who apparently wants them to work together on getting rid of the Wraith Poison...

If you play it well, you can have half of Atlantis captured somewhere, and half somewhere else? Or one half before the other one so they can't run off to rescue one another.

Nitegate
February 16th, 2008, 03:51 PM
like i said i think the carson that died was a replicator, remember they're filled with flesh and blood also. we probably won't find out next week but on part 2.

Mitchell82
February 16th, 2008, 04:26 PM
like i said i think the carson that died was a replicator, remember they're filled with flesh and blood also. we probably won't find out next week but on part 2.

No they're not. The only replicators that are flesh and blood are the duplicates of Shep's team which are all dead. The only plausible scenario to me is that Michael created a clone.

Gaeth
February 16th, 2008, 04:57 PM
Her son is a fetus around three months old in 'Spoils Of War'. I'll paste in a few my thoughts about this from another post.

Everyone thinks Teyla's baby is human with, perhaps, a bit of Wraith DNA which will give it Wraith telepathic abilities once it's brain is fully developed. What they'd be expecting the fetus to be like at Teyla's stage of pregnancy would be something on these lines depending on how many weeks 'about three months' actually is. This could be 12, 13 or maybe 14 weeks. (15 weeks would be nearer four months.)

http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/002398.htm

This page has further links to a bit of extra detail. I won't give every single link but people can double check things for themselves if they want to.

It's between 3 and 6 inches long. It's learned how to make a fist and suck its thumb. It's got some kind of a brain but it's still rudimentary at the moment - it won't enter the rapid brain development stage until around week 25. If it's got Wraith DNA the part of its brain responsible for 'telepathic abilities' should also be in a rudimentary state.

The Queen tells Teyla - "You cannot resist me for long. Combined, your two minds are very powerful.."

If Teyla mentioned that her baby's mind helped her to control the Queen, someone ought to be thinking this is a bit odd. A human fetus between 12 and 14 weeks old doesn't have a brain capable of producing much in the way of mind let alone one which is powerful enough to help Teyla overcome a Wraith Queen.

Since this kind of development is abnormal for humans anyway (the telepathy) it's possible that the part of the brain responsible for telepathy develops fairly early. It might even hearken back to the Wraith scientist who gave Teyla's ancestors the ability. He may have wanted to know if his experiment was working and being passed on successfully while still in the womb. That way he wouldn't have to wait until birth to know if the desired traits had been passed on.


No they're not. The only replicators that are flesh and blood are the duplicates of Shep's team which are all dead. The only plausible scenario to me is that Michael created a clone.

I think it's the clone itself that was killed. I vaguely recall them saying that Carson wouldn't be a clone or from another reality. That's probably where the Asurans come in they may have made a clone back after they gave him a head fistin' at some unknown point and pulled a switcheroo. That's a shot in the dark but it seems the most plausible.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 16th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Since this kind of development is abnormal for humans anyway (the telepathy) it's possible that the part of the brain responsible for telepathy develops fairly early. It might even hearken back to the Wraith scientist who gave Teyla's ancestors the ability. He may have wanted to know if his experiment was working and being passed on successfully while still in the womb. That way he wouldn't have to wait until birth to know if the desired traits had been passed on.



I think it's the clone itself that was killed. I vaguely recall them saying that Carson wouldn't be a clone or from another reality. That's probably where the Asurans come in they may have made a clone back after they gave him a head fistin' at some unknown point and pulled a switcheroo. That's a shot in the dark but it seems the most plausible.

JoeM never said that he would not be a clone. he said that he would not be AU or ascended. He also said that he will be the Carson we know, not necessarily the actual Carson Beckett.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 16th, 2008, 06:35 PM
Hmm, the guy firing at Lorne looks like he is wearing Replicator clothing. I knew it Carson is a Replicator... or dead Carson was a Replicator! I knew it! :PThe plot thickens. ;)

really? I thought it looked closer to Michael's own clothing. Well, he did have a Wraith stunner, so I'm guessing that Michael has a group of wraith worshippers under his command.

Dr.Jonsson
February 16th, 2008, 07:26 PM
Well I thought the ATA database got a search engine, I had a few questions for it...

1. Why are Ancients so stupid?!

2. Why can't Ancients help living people?!

3. Can Ancients have kids?!

4. Where is the laundry on Atlantis?

Good point, but if the Ancients dont have kids, that would be fine by me.

Dr.Jonsson
February 16th, 2008, 07:28 PM
The scifi announcer guy is as dumb as scifi themselves. Believe me Michael is involved not Replicators.

On the preview, it says Teyla falls into a Replicator trap, Yes! The Asurans are back! :)

cabouse18
February 16th, 2008, 08:17 PM
JoeM never said that he would not be a clone. he said that he would not be AU or ascended. He also said that he will be the Carson we know, not necessarily the actual Carson Beckett.

I think he is a replicator like the ones that were created of the team in This Mortal Coil.....The Asurans had everything from Weir's mind so they would know that he was dead but they could have been planning that whole scenario for a long time and made a Beckett they just didn't use him in the scenario b/c they would have realized it wasn't real right away b/c he was dead. Rodney even says in the ep when confronted by the fake Keller that Keller didn't show up til after Beckett was dead so how would they have known to put Keller in there? As explained b/c of what they gained from Elizabeth when she was captured in Lifeline. So it is possible that they had been planning the scenario for a while but needed more info and got it when they caught Elizabeth; and then found out that Carson was dead......just a thought.


BTW....did any of that sound plausible? :S

Nitegate
February 17th, 2008, 12:13 AM
i know that only certain replicators were composed of flesh and blood, what i'm saying is the one that was replaced, but who cares, we'll find out.

another thing too, they wouldn't have carson on base if he's a replicator for security reasons, they've already stated that stuff in the past with Weir and company. there are pics of carson on atlantis in a bed that surfaced a few weeks ago.

people can make their speculations if it's farfetched or not so farfetched, but we'll probably find out in part 2. i've been waiting for this episode since i heard about it, i can't wait. i hope everyone is wrong and everyone would be surprised.

if i had to guess, i think Kaanan is a wraith worshipper, why didn't he contact teyla before if he was able to, yeah i'm sure it has something to do with the baby, but shouldn't he warn them, it looks like atlantis is goin in a trap.

i'm sure sci-fi messed up on the promo, it said replicators when it showed a wraith hive ship and then a dart.

Mitchell82
February 17th, 2008, 11:37 AM
JoeM never said that he would not be a clone. he said that he would not be AU or ascended. He also said that he will be the Carson we know, not necessarily the actual Carson Beckett.

True. Either way is fine by me.

Teslan
February 17th, 2008, 12:22 PM
Sokar the Wraith, I'd be somewhat surprised and displeased if Kanaan ends up being a wraithworshiper. It might be a midly enteraining plot device, but i the end I feel it would ignore some key points made in previous episodes. Primarily, that wraithworshippers seemed to be considered pretty much the biggest bunch of quislings this side of the Atlantis gate.

Examples: Teyla usually was able to brush off Bates, but she let him have it when he insinuated that she was working with them, and even declared that to be the highest insult he could give her. Ronon obviously liked his Satedean pals lot for him to consider quitting the team, and while he let one of them go, he still killed the other two. Hey, even the Bola Kai were incensed by the suggestion that they were working with the wraith.

So, why would Kanaan, who according to Teyla is has "potential to be a great leader", agree to become one of the scum of the Pegasus Galaxy? It would show a major weakness of character, IMHO.

Darren
February 17th, 2008, 01:08 PM
If Kanaan is a Wraith worshipper, it remains to be seen just why he went that way. The Satedans were converted basically by being tortured and driven mad.

I think he is one. I think it'll make a cool, on-going ark for Teyla in Season Five to have the father of her child out there as an enemy. What happens if he decides he basically wants his son, to raise him as a Wraith worshipper? I'd actually love it if he's just made the choice to worship them, rather than been forced into it through torture and insanity.

My guess for "The Kindred" is that Kanaan is already working with Michael, and when Michael's experiments reach a critical stage he has Kanaan use his telepathic superpowers to contact Teyla and lure her to them.

Teslan
February 17th, 2008, 03:31 PM
So you think Kanaan definitely has wraith DNA too? I guess if he is the one sending the visions to Teyla, he has to. But it could also be Michael himself somehow sending them to Teyla in order to lure her and the team into a trap. I half think Kanaan is already dead, and when he appears in future episodes, it is all in flashbacks. But I hope not.

Anyway, what do think Teyla's reaction would be to learning Kanaan is a wraith worshipper? It would almost certainly make her hopping mad, and the only good that would do for the story is if (and I starting to think that is a big one), TPTB decided to only delay the "dark Teyla arc" for this season, instead of scrapping it entirely.

Besides, any new mention of a team member's friend(s) turning out to be a wraithworshipper would probably result in a huge outcry from those that always feel the writers never come up with anything new.

But hey, you could be right. Just a week more before we find out. Either way, wraithworshipper or dead guy, I'm really looking forward to these last three episodes.

prion
February 17th, 2008, 04:16 PM
The scifi announcer guy is as dumb as scifi themselves. Believe me Michael is involved not Replicators.

well, the announcer only reads the copy of SciFi's obviously inept advertising department ;)

I can't see the replicators being involved as their code was changed for them to kill all wraith, not kill just a few and oh, spare this one or that one. Nope, all or nothing, well, all.

the trouble with kanaan is that spoilers are already out for season five. won't say more than that.

would be rather sucky if the father of teyla's kid turned out to be a baddy, but well, at least he's human ;)

Nitegate
February 17th, 2008, 04:46 PM
it would be a twist, teyla hating wraith worshippers and how she hated bates cause he accused her of being one, talk about irony, she getting involved with a guy that becomes one.

Willow'sCat
February 17th, 2008, 05:30 PM
Looking at the MGM promo (which thankfully doesn't give away what happens in the last 5 minutes :rolleyes:) you can see the *spoilers season 4/5* funeral pyre that Joe M had as a sketch on his blog... the one labeled Kannan's. Could Kannan be a replicator too now! *shakes head* I have no idea how they can all be there watching him go up in flames given what we know of season 5.:S

Just how many "visions" will Teyla have!?:S

prion
February 17th, 2008, 06:39 PM
Looking at the MGM promo (which thankfully doesn't give away what happens in the last 5 minutes :rolleyes:) you can see the *spoilers season 4/5* funeral pyre that Joe M had as a sketch on his blog... the one labeled Kannan's. Could Kannan be a replicator too now! *shakes head* I have no idea how they can all be there watching him go up in flames given what we know of season 5.:S

Just how many "visions" will Teyla have!?:S

Hmm, if Teyla is still taking Ambien ;)

Gaeth
February 17th, 2008, 07:54 PM
Anyway, what do think Teyla's reaction would be to learning Kanaan is a wraith worshipper? It would almost certainly make her hopping mad, and the only good that would do for the story is if (and I starting to think that is a big one), TPTB decided to only delay the "dark Teyla arc" for this season, instead of scrapping it entirely.


I think she'd kill him instantly. She'd come back to Atlantis with a baby in one arm and his head in another. Even if she didn't the other Athosians would hang him from a tree and children would hit him with sticks, or Ronon would beat the tobacco juice out of him.

GoSpikey
February 18th, 2008, 04:19 AM
I think she'd kill him instantly.

My thought exactly.

FireCat
February 18th, 2008, 09:28 AM
I think he is one. I think it'll make a cool, on-going ark for Teyla in Season Five to have the father of her child out there as an enemy. What happens if he decides he basically wants his son, to raise him as a Wraith worshipper? I'd actually love it if he's just made the choice to worship them, rather than been forced into it through torture and insanity.

My guess for "The Kindred" is that Kanaan is already working with Michael, and when Michael's experiments reach a critical stage he has Kanaan use his telepathic superpowers to contact Teyla and lure her to them.

Mallozzi already spoiled season 5 - Kanaan's fate on his blog. If you go back a few weeks and enlarge the pics, you'll know what happens to him.

GoSpikey
February 18th, 2008, 09:47 AM
Mallozzi already spoiled season 5 - Kanaan's fate on his blog. If you go back a few weeks and enlarge the pics, you'll know what happens to him.

You don't know how many times he's been cloned. ;)

jenks
February 18th, 2008, 10:55 AM
Mallozzi already spoiled season 5 - Kanaan's fate on his blog. If you go back a few weeks and enlarge the pics, you'll know what happens to him.

I wouldn't be so sure...

He's in season 5.

FoolishPleasure
February 18th, 2008, 11:06 AM
I wouldn't be so sure...

He's in season 5.

I saw the storyboard picture on Mallozzi's blog. It is in season 5, but I don't think it said which episode. If you want a HEAVY spoiler, it said, "Kanaan's funeral pyre".

JM can't blame Gateworld for this one. ;)

jenks
February 18th, 2008, 11:15 AM
I think he put that there intentionally to throw us off. I remember at the time people were surprised he was letting such a huge spoiler out of the bag, maybe he really wasn't?

PG15
February 18th, 2008, 12:42 PM
I saw the storyboard picture on Mallozzi's blog. It is in season 5, but I don't think it said which episode. If you want a HEAVY spoiler, it said, "Kanaan's funeral pyre".

JM can't blame Gateworld for this one. ;)

Oh, but he can if Gateworld said it was from Season 5.

Because the storyboard was actually from Kindred Part 1.

McSwift
February 18th, 2008, 01:48 PM
I got a question with regards to the Wraith Cruiser vs. Daedalus

1 Daedalus ship can wipe out an Aurora Cruiser quite easily.

1 Aurora Cruiser can wipe out a Wraith Cruiser quite easily.

Why is it that the Wraith is stupid enough to battle with Daedalus in this episode using a Cruiser???? It makes no sense.

The only way that I can think that they can fight back is if theres a way of disabling some of Daedalus' power so that Railguns are the only weapons avaliable.

Thoughts.

--> I got this Battle from watching the Trailers <--

GoSpikey
February 18th, 2008, 01:52 PM
I got a question with regards to the Wraith Cruiser vs. Daedalus

1 Daedalus ship can wipe out an Aurora Cruiser quite easily.

1 Aurora Cruiser can wipe out a Wraith Cruiser quite easily.

Why is it that the Wraith is stupid enough to battle with Daedalus in this episode using a Cruiser???? It makes no sense.

The only way that I can think that they can fight back is if theres a way of disabling some of Daedalus' power so that Railguns are the only weapons avaliable.

Thoughts.

--> I got this Battle from watching the Trailers <--

Because, for this particular Wraith, acquiring a Hive Ship would be pretty hard, even more with the flying it. It's called a Michael and it stars in that ep.

(Search and Rescue spoilers mention Michael has a Cruiser.)

PG15
February 18th, 2008, 02:03 PM
I can see why the Deddy wouldn't try to destroy the Cruiser with beam weapons if one of our own team members were onboard somehow (and we can't beam him/her out due to the Wraith jamming us).

GoSpikey
February 18th, 2008, 02:03 PM
Anybody else slightly afraid Michael got himself a ZPM to clone some of his goons/followers/whatever and he took it from the planet with the kids?

Nitegate
February 18th, 2008, 04:26 PM
I got a question with regards to the Wraith Cruiser vs. Daedalus

1 Daedalus ship can wipe out an Aurora Cruiser quite easily.

1 Aurora Cruiser can wipe out a Wraith Cruiser quite easily.

Why is it that the Wraith is stupid enough to battle with Daedalus in this episode using a Cruiser???? It makes no sense.

The only way that I can think that they can fight back is if theres a way of disabling some of Daedalus' power so that Railguns are the only weapons avaliable.

Thoughts.

--> I got this Battle from watching the Trailers <--

cause the wraith that lead the battle against the replicators with todd got his in midway, so he gone byebye. lmao

DeeKayP
February 18th, 2008, 07:46 PM
I was wondering if maybe Kanaan in The Kindred and [Season Five spoiler - Kanaan in Search and Rescue are the same man and that maybe when Sheppard returns from the future, he returns at such a time that Kanaan is still alive and Teyla can still be rescued. What if the tear and hanky warnings are that both of them are killed in The Kindred and Sheppard as is trying to find them, but it's too late. Then the finale, The Last Man, has flashbacks of McKay's story about what happened after Sheppard was MIA. Then, when Sheppard returns in S&R, he returns at a time that they can still rescue the Athosians. The Seer said that Teyla wouldn't like what she finds when she finds her people - it could very well be that they have been brainwashed by Michael to serve him - something that is basically worse than death to them. - end Season Five spoiler]

atlantis2k8
February 19th, 2008, 03:33 PM
Is Carson a clone?

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 03:36 PM
Is Carson a clone?

the one in The Kindred? maybe

atlantis2k8
February 19th, 2008, 03:38 PM
So the actual Carson is dead then?

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 03:40 PM
So the actual Carson is dead then?

we don't know

atlantis2k8
February 19th, 2008, 03:46 PM
we don't know

Hmmmmm

But we're deffinantly sure that Carsons is in next weeks show. Will he continue to be in the show or will he be dumped like Ford?

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 03:54 PM
Hmmmmm

But we're deffinantly sure that Carsons is in next weeks show. Will he continue to be in the show or will he be dumped like Ford?

yes Carson will be in The Kindred Part 1 and 2. he'll also return for five eps in s5

Killdeer
February 19th, 2008, 04:01 PM
I was wondering if maybe Kanaan in The Kindred and [Season Five spoiler - Kanaan in Search and Rescue are the same man and that maybe when Sheppard returns from the future, he returns at such a time that Kanaan is still alive and Teyla can still be rescued. What if the tear and hanky warnings are that both of them are killed in The Kindred and Sheppard as is trying to find them, but it's too late. Then the finale, The Last Man, has flashbacks of McKay's story about what happened after Sheppard was MIA. Then, when Sheppard returns in S&R, he returns at a time that they can still rescue the Athosians. The Seer said that Teyla wouldn't like what she finds when she finds her people - it could very well be that they have been brainwashed by Michael to serve him - something that is basically worse than death to them. - end Season Five spoiler]


Wow - that's a great theory! :)

cabouse18
February 19th, 2008, 04:56 PM
I was wondering if maybe Kanaan in The Kindred and [Season Five spoiler - Kanaan in Search and Rescue are the same man and that maybe when Sheppard returns from the future, he returns at such a time that Kanaan is still alive and Teyla can still be rescued. What if the tear and hanky warnings are that both of them are killed in The Kindred and Sheppard as is trying to find them, but it's too late. Then the finale, The Last Man, has flashbacks of McKay's story about what happened after Sheppard was MIA. Then, when Sheppard returns in S&R, he returns at a time that they can still rescue the Athosians. The Seer said that Teyla wouldn't like what she finds when she finds her people - it could very well be that they have been brainwashed by Michael to serve him - something that is basically worse than death to them. - end Season Five spoiler]

Hmmm...that is an interesting theory. I like it;)

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 04:59 PM
I was wondering if maybe Kanaan in The Kindred and [Season Five spoiler - Kanaan in Search and Rescue are the same man and that maybe when Sheppard returns from the future, he returns at such a time that Kanaan is still alive and Teyla can still be rescued. What if the tear and hanky warnings are that both of them are killed in The Kindred and Sheppard as is trying to find them, but it's too late. Then the finale, The Last Man, has flashbacks of McKay's story about what happened after Sheppard was MIA. Then, when Sheppard returns in S&R, he returns at a time that they can still rescue the Athosians. The Seer said that Teyla wouldn't like what she finds when she finds her people - it could very well be that they have been brainwashed by Michael to serve him - something that is basically worse than death to them. - end Season Five spoiler]

very interesting theory :) you should post this on JM's blog, maybe he'll answer ;)

Killdeer
February 19th, 2008, 05:09 PM
I still think the funeral pyre scene is from one of Teyla's dreams, though. Kanaan may die later in the episode(s), but I would bet that scene is a dream. It just doesn't fit in with what we know of the rest of the episode, and none of the team are armed or anything like what you would expect for going off world. John especially is just dressed like he is around Atlantis-he's not geared up like he would be if he were going into the field.

So I really do think the funeral pyre scene is a dream of Teyla's.

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 05:14 PM
I still think the funeral pyre scene is from one of Teyla's dreams, though. Kanaan may die later in the episode(s), but I would bet that scene is a dream. It just doesn't fit in with what we know of the rest of the episode, and none of the team are armed or anything like what you would expect for going off world. John especially is just dressed like he is around Atlantis-he's not geared up like he would be if he were going into the field.

So I really do think the funeral pyre scene is a dream of Teyla's.

I assume you're talking about this scene? (sorry I couldn't find a better pic)
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/SGA04.jpg

Killdeer
February 19th, 2008, 05:15 PM
I assume you're talking about this scene? (sorry I couldn't find a better pic)
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/SGA04.jpg

Yes - that's the scene. I could be wrong, but I'm almost positive that's another dream.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
February 19th, 2008, 05:19 PM
whats with the main cast wearing Black? i wear Black everyday cause its the only jacket i have.

cabouse18
February 19th, 2008, 05:22 PM
I still think the funeral pyre scene is from one of Teyla's dreams, though. Kanaan may die later in the episode(s), but I would bet that scene is a dream. It just doesn't fit in with what we know of the rest of the episode, and none of the team are armed or anything like what you would expect for going off world. John especially is just dressed like he is around Atlantis-he's not geared up like he would be if he were going into the field.

So I really do think the funeral pyre scene is a dream of Teyla's.

knowing how this show works....it probably is!

prion
February 19th, 2008, 06:26 PM
Alas, i'm sure not if this thread is for part 1 or part 2 as well, so tossing part 2spoilers under a tag.

From the TV Guide
KINDRED part 2 2/29

SGA
In the conclusion of a two-part story, a captive Teyla plots escape from
Michael's facility after reuniting her fellow Athosians. But her gambit depends
entirely on whether Sheppard can mount a rescue in time. Back at Atlantis, the
team welcomes an old friend, who apparently is back from the dead!

Fenrir Foxz
February 19th, 2008, 06:29 PM
Alas, i'm sure not if this thread is for part 1 or part 2 as well, so tossing part 2spoilers under a tag.

From the TV Guide
KINDRED part 2 2/29

SGA
In the conclusion of a two-part story, a captive Teyla plots escape from
Michael's facility after reuniting her fellow Athosians. But her gambit depends
entirely on whether Sheppard can mount a rescue in time. Back at Atlantis, the
team welcomes an old friend, who apparently is back from the dead!

Cool :D Thanks prion... This should definately be an interesting 2 part ep :D

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Alas, i'm sure not if this thread is for part 1 or part 2 as well, so tossing part 2spoilers under a tag.

I think it's also for Part 2


From the TV Guide
KINDRED part 2 2/29

SGA
In the conclusion of a two-part story, a captive Teyla plots escape from
Michael's facility after reuniting her fellow Athosians. But her gambit depends
entirely on whether Sheppard can mount a rescue in time. Back at Atlantis, the
team welcomes an old friend, who apparently is back from the dead!

not really anything new but thanks prion :)

cabouse18
February 19th, 2008, 06:45 PM
Alas, i'm sure not if this thread is for part 1 or part 2 as well, so tossing part 2spoilers under a tag.

From the TV Guide
KINDRED part 2 2/29

SGA
In the conclusion of a two-part story, a captive Teyla plots escape from
Michael's facility after reuniting her fellow Athosians. But her gambit depends
entirely on whether Sheppard can mount a rescue in time. Back at Atlantis, the
team welcomes an old friend, who apparently is back from the dead!

Thanks Prion....I can't wait for this Friday and the next one as well!!:D

DarkAngel34994
February 19th, 2008, 06:48 PM
I was wondering if maybe Kanaan in The Kindred and [Season Five spoiler - Kanaan in Search and Rescue are the same man and that maybe when Sheppard returns from the future, he returns at such a time that Kanaan is still alive and Teyla can still be rescued. What if the tear and hanky warnings are that both of them are killed in The Kindred and Sheppard as is trying to find them, but it's too late. Then the finale, The Last Man, has flashbacks of McKay's story about what happened after Sheppard was MIA. Then, when Sheppard returns in S&R, he returns at a time that they can still rescue the Athosians. The Seer said that Teyla wouldn't like what she finds when she finds her people - it could very well be that they have been brainwashed by Michael to serve him - something that is basically worse than death to them. - end Season Five spoiler]


Wow. I would have never thought of that. Very interesting theory.

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 07:35 PM
http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/02/new_details_on_iatlantisi_season.shtml

OK, I'm sorry but I still don't get why Sheppard is searching for Teyla by himself. That makes no sense to me.

I don't know why he's alone but DeeKayP's theory might be correct. oh and we should probably talk about this in the TLM thread, this one 's about The Kindred ;)

Killdeer
February 19th, 2008, 07:41 PM
I don't know why he's alone but DeeKayP's theory might be correct. oh and we should probably talk about this in the TLM thread, this one 's about The Kindred ;)

ooops :o Sorry - posted too fast. :S

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 07:42 PM
ooops :o Sorry - posted too fast. :S

don't worry ;) psst nobody will know :P

DeeKayP
February 19th, 2008, 08:42 PM
I don't know why he's alone but DeeKayP's theory might be correct. oh and we should probably talk about this in the TLM thread, this one 's about The Kindred ;)

Yeah, this is a hard one to talk about since it appears to span over several episodes and into next season.

One other thought about The Seer and what I posted a bit earlier that I didn't finish for some strange reason:
[Begin speculation - What if when The Seer said that the Athosians were shrouded in darkness was because they had two futures and he had never encountered such a thing? He claimed that he was never wrong, but that was when the future seemed clear. If Sheppard goes back in time to re-create the Athosians' future, then The Seer might not have been able to understand or have a vision of such an anomaly. - end speculation]

Jeffala
February 19th, 2008, 08:47 PM
I thought I heard sci fi say a replicator trap but...

"Greetings from SciFi,

We're too busy concerning ourselves with professional wrestling and shows about fake ghosts to actually familiarize ourselves with the fundamentals of our upcoming shows that actually are, you know, science fiction.

Thanks for watching!"

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 08:56 PM
Yeah, this is a hard one to talk about since it appears to span over several episodes and into next season.

One other thought about The Seer and what I posted a bit earlier that I didn't finish for some strange reason:
[Begin speculation - What if when The Seer said that the Athosians were shrouded in darkness was because they had two futures and he had never encountered such a thing? He claimed that he was never wrong, but that was when the future seemed clear. If Sheppard goes back in time to re-create the Athosians' future, then The Seer might not have been able to understand or have a vision of such an anomaly. - end speculation]

you know I think you're right about this. maybe

TLM spoilersthe Seer saw the future in which something goes wrong and the one where Shep is able to change what had happened because Rodney (the hologram) told him this would explain a lot


"Greetings from SciFi,

We're too busy concerning ourselves with professional wrestling and shows about fake ghosts to actually familiarize ourselves with the fundamentals of our upcoming shows that actually are, you know, science fiction.

Thanks for watching!"

:lol:

GoSpikey
February 20th, 2008, 04:31 AM
I just rewatched Poisoning the Well and The Gift yesterday, in preparation for The Kindred and all that's to follow in those eps.

From PtW, we know that there's a scientist who has done some messing around with human DNA to make the feeding process more efficient, and that the other Wraith didn't like it and eventually (after 5 generations, or sth), he decided to clean all the altered people up, massacring the world he put them on. Unfortunately some of them were austracized before he could kill them, and they, if they went all together to one planet in one group, ended up on Athos. Hence the Athosians who now have altered DNA, Wraith DNA.

Some people are already wondering if that Wraith was Todd. It would be something he would do. If the Wraith did research for some generations, he couldn't really be asleep with the other Wraith, right? So no big 10,000 years of sleep for him (if it was this much for the others, or whatever), but he continued to work behind the Wraith's backs, and eventually stopped the research.

Remember when Sheppard was sitting next to Todd in the Genii's holding cells? He said he was captured alive 'many, many years ago'. If you're like imprisoned for up to 20 years, aka Teyla's generation, that's a lot, right? A Wraith wouldn't call '3 years' many years. So he didn't wake up with the rest in The Rising?

Now, in SoW, remember Todd seeing Teyla take possession of the Queen? He said it was 'impossible', which it is, for a normal human, but maybe it was more of an 'impossible, I destroyed them all'? So at that point he would see what his 'work' could do to the Wraith. His 'make the food more effective', whatever that meant, now takes on Queens and wins from them. That might be a problem, even though he talks about taking out the Wraith himself, too.

So? If he's learned that Teyla comes from a planet called Athos, and he's seen in the computers where it is, or he's learned verbally, he knows where some of those undead Wraithified humans should now recide. But he also knows they've been taken by someone, but he doesn't know whereto. He might have learned of Michael in the computers, too. Maybe he gets that's a likely candidate to have taken them away? Does the computer say that Michael has a grudge against Teyla? Maybe Todd will go to Michael just to clean up after his little science project? If his new plan just happens to take out Michael, along the Athosians, that's fine by him, right?

Your thoughts?

ciannwn
February 20th, 2008, 05:17 AM
From PtW, we know that there's a scientist who has done some messing around with human DNA to make the feeding process more efficient, and that the other Wraith didn't like it and eventually (after 5 generations, or sth), he decided to clean all the altered people up, massacring the world he put them on.

Some people are already wondering if that Wraith was Todd.

I really, really hope that Wraith geneticist wasn't Todd because I think he was very stupid.

WEIR (interrupting): Why did the Wraith scientist stop the experiments?

WEIR: Well at first, I thought it was because the other Wraith caught him.

SHEPPARD: They didn't?

WEIR: No -- according to this, he stopped on his own.

The reason he did this -

WEIR: Because by combining even small amounts of Wraith DNA with humans', the scientist was giving the humans Wraith mental abilities. The subjects of his experiments were able to hear the Wraith communications.

WEIR:.. The Wraith scientist couldn't find a way around it, so eventually he gave up.

So what did he do?

McKAY: I don't understand. I mean, why let them back into the general population, then?

WEIR: It seems he thought that interbreeding with normal humans might dilute the effect.

McKAY: And before he realised he was wrong, it was too late.

What a dumb thing for a geneticist to do. Why not just keep his failed experiments for lunch instead of sending them out to interbreed with other humans? Didn't he consider the possibility that 'diluted effects' might mean humans being able to tell that Wraith were around without being so in tune with the telepathic network that they went mad from hearing voices?

GoSpikey
February 20th, 2008, 07:40 AM
I really, really hope that Wraith geneticist wasn't Todd because I think he was very stupid.


What a dumb thing for a geneticist to do. Why not just keep his failed experiments for lunch instead of sending them out to interbreed with other humans? Didn't he consider the possibility that 'diluted effects' might mean humans being able to tell that Wraith were around without being so in tune with the telepathic network that they went mad from hearing voices?

First of all, thanks for the quotes, all the information in the ep was really great, and it was fun to reread it!

Secondly, yes, the geneticist was indeed kind of stupid. Do we even know exactly what part of the feeding process he wanted to alter? Did he want the humans to last longer, have twice the life force, or whatever? Did he think it took too long for the humans to be drained, etc.? From here, it looks pretty effective already. You put your hands on them, and they get drained. Why put Wraith DNA in the mix? I'd really like opinions about this one, cos to me his goal wasn't that clear.

I also found it rather strange that he let them go. Do we have an exact number of people he experimented on, per time? It might have been too many to feed from. I think they only need a life or two every few months? Maybe it's someone who is more in control of his Wraith urges, who doesn't latch out at every human he can feed on? I think Todd is such a man. It doesn't of course mean he's the only one, but it's fun to suspect things.

So I think some bits fit him, and some others don't. Either way, it would be fun to someday meet that scientist. Maybe in TLM, Rodney tells Shep that it was Todd. Should be fun to see. :cool:

Gaeth
February 20th, 2008, 07:48 AM
What a dumb thing for a geneticist to do. Why not just keep his failed experiments for lunch instead of sending them out to interbreed with other humans? Didn't he consider the possibility that 'diluted effects' might mean humans being able to tell that Wraith were around without being so in tune with the telepathic network that they went mad from hearing voices?

On the commentary for that episode on DVD they said he wanted to be able to track the humans telepathically. That way they couldn't hide under a mountain or anything. Remember at the time he was doing this Atlantis was gone, and so were the Ancients, what hope could even some telepathic humans have against the Wraith? Maybe the scientist was distracted by a sexual scandal back on his home planet, or maybe an impeachment or something.

ciannwn
February 20th, 2008, 07:57 AM
Secondly, yes, the geneticist was indeed kind of stupid. Do we even know exactly what part of the feeding process he wanted to alter? Did he want the humans to last longer, have twice the life force, or whatever? Did he think it took too long for the humans to be drained, etc.? From here, it looks pretty effective already. You put your hands on them, and they get drained. Why put Wraith DNA in the mix? I'd really like opinions about this one, cos to me his goal wasn't that clear.

I'm guessing it was a plot device to 'explain' how Teyla happened to have some Wraith DNA. :D


I also found it rather strange that he let them go.

Well, if he hadn't let them go Teyla could never have been born. The scientist would have had her 'failed experiment ancestor' for lunch instead.


Do we have an exact number of people he experimented on, per time? It might have been too many to feed from. I think they only need a life or two every few months?

At the moment we've only got the information we were told in 'The Gift'. Like a lot of SGA explanations it was kept to a minimum and made as vague as possible.


Maybe it's someone who is more in control of his Wraith urges, who doesn't latch out at every human he can feed on?

If he was able to get hold of humans without too much bother, perhaps he just wasn't hungry. It could be that Wraith have different approaches to eating the same way as humans do. Some humans spend a lot of time eating and they raid the fridge and/or larder a dozen times in between main meals. Others can get really absorbed in what they're doing so go for hours without eating anything.


I think Todd is such a man. It doesn't of course mean he's the only one, but it's fun to suspect things.

I hope he isn't as dumb as that geneticist. :(


So I think some bits fit him, and some others don't. Either way, it would be fun to someday meet that scientist. Maybe in TLM, Rodney tells Shep that it was Todd. Should be fun to see. :cool:

If it was Todd it means he'd be the Wraith equivalent of Rodney. He starts out hoping to do something which will improve matters and often makes them worse instead. :D

GoSpikey
February 20th, 2008, 08:26 AM
I hope he isn't as dumb as that geneticist. :(

If it was Todd it means he'd be the Wraith equivalent of Rodney. He starts out hoping to do something which will improve matters and often makes them worse instead. :D

Yeah, but the 'doing stuff behind his people's backs is kinda Todd-ish. It would be interesting to know exactly how many Wraith are sneaky like that. :D

*Remembers the ZPM incident*

Urgh. That was bad. But it's the 'risk all' attitude that Todd has, too.

Teslan
February 20th, 2008, 09:22 AM
I could be completely off course with this, but maybe the Wraith didn't chow down on them because of the mental link? Once it is diluted, like in Teyla, it obviously doesn't matter. But maybe when they first did it, they could hear the people's thoughts as they ate them. Which might not be the most pleasant experience even for a Wraith.

It would probably be pretty disturbing to eat a hamburger if you had a cow in your head. :S

Likewise, whether or not Todd sold them out, would he be willing to feed on Shep and McKay now that he has worked so closely with them? Shoot, he granted Shep a right normally given only to those closest to the Wraith.

So, while I wouldn't doubt for a minute that he would betray them or kill them, etc., would he still be willing to actually drain them of their life-force? I'm going to say yes, but I'd like to see if anyone agrees or disagrees.

Gaeth
February 20th, 2008, 02:20 PM
It would probably be pretty disturbing to eat a hamburger if you had a cow in your head. :S


I can hear it now: "Mooo Moo Moorderer Moodurer Guilty Guilty Mooooo!"

cabouse18
February 20th, 2008, 02:49 PM
I could be completely off course with this, but maybe the Wraith didn't chow down on them because of the mental link? Once it is diluted, like in Teyla, it obviously doesn't matter. But maybe when they first did it, they could hear the people's thoughts as they ate them. Which might not be the most pleasant experience even for a Wraith.

It would probably be pretty disturbing to eat a hamburger if you had a cow in your head. :S

Likewise, whether or not Todd sold them out, would he be willing to feed on Shep and McKay now that he has worked so closely with them? Shoot, he granted Shep a right normally given only to those closest to the Wraith.

So, while I wouldn't doubt for a minute that he would betray them or kill them, etc., would he still be willing to actually drain them of their life-force? I'm going to say yes, but I'd like to see if anyone agrees or disagrees.


Yeah he is a Wraith and only seeks them out for their help when it suits him or even both of them but if push came to shove....I could still see him being a wraith and feeding on them.

GoSpikey
February 21st, 2008, 06:36 AM
Hmm. Remember when they thought Michael might have been a scientist, or that he was very quick in adapting the Lanteans' knowledge into his own?

Maybe it was Mikey who did the experimenting? Although it fits Todd more...

I just really hope we'll meet that one one day.

atfan
February 21st, 2008, 11:19 AM
First of all, thanks for the quotes, all the information in the ep was really great, and it was fun to reread it!

Secondly, yes, the geneticist was indeed kind of stupid. Do we even know exactly what part of the feeding process he wanted to alter? Did he want the humans to last longer, have twice the life force, or whatever? Did he think it took too long for the humans to be drained, etc.? From here, it looks pretty effective already. You put your hands on them, and they get drained. Why put Wraith DNA in the mix? I'd really like opinions about this one, cos to me his goal wasn't that clear.

I also found it rather strange that he let them go. Do we have an exact number of people he experimented on, per time? It might have been too many to feed from. I think they only need a life or two every few months? Maybe it's someone who is more in control of his Wraith urges, who doesn't latch out at every human he can feed on? I think Todd is such a man. It doesn't of course mean he's the only one, but it's fun to suspect things.

So I think some bits fit him, and some others don't. Either way, it would be fun to someday meet that scientist. Maybe in TLM, Rodney tells Shep that it was Todd. Should be fun to see. :cool:

interesting discussion, I wonder if the feeding process he was trying to alter was to make it so the Wraith have to feed less. That would make more sense, the less they have to cull the less vunerable they are to attack. I wonder if by blending them with humans they were trying to make a wraith who wasn't dependent on a human for their food. We have seen during the whole replicator thing and with Todd that this is a weakness that makes them dependent on humans. Similar to the Goa'uld in that respect. They need humans to survive and any Wraith enemy could exploit that fact like the replicators did.

GoSpikey
February 21st, 2008, 11:35 AM
interesting discussion, I wonder if the feeding process he was trying to alter was to make it so the Wraith have to feed less. That would make more sense, the less they have to cull the less vunerable they are to attack. I wonder if by blending them with humans they were trying to make a wraith who wasn't dependent on a human for their food. We have seen during the whole replicator thing and with Todd that this is a weakness that makes them dependent on humans. Similar to the Goa'uld in that respect. They need humans to survive and any Wraith enemy could exploit that fact like the replicators did.

Interesting point. A stronger life force in humans, less feeding for a Wraith...

Yeah, it's kinda funny that the Wraith's food gets attacked because of the Wraith so much, this season. And we're not near done yet, Mikey still has to perform!

:P

cabouse18
February 21st, 2008, 02:16 PM
interesting discussion, I wonder if the feeding process he was trying to alter was to make it so the Wraith have to feed less. That would make more sense, the less they have to cull the less vunerable they are to attack. I wonder if by blending them with humans they were trying to make a wraith who wasn't dependent on a human for their food. We have seen during the whole replicator thing and with Todd that this is a weakness that makes them dependent on humans. Similar to the Goa'uld in that respect. They need humans to survive and any Wraith enemy could exploit that fact like the replicators did.

It is an interesting theory....something I could see Michael having picked up on and maybe taken to the next level....possibly with the baby Teyla is carrying???