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StevenCaldwell
June 8th, 2007, 04:04 AM
Ok foks,

We no the puddle jumpers are equip with cloaking tech ( which can be switch to a shield ) and drones. McKay was working on a hyperdrive system for the puddle jumper in the ep ( TAO McKay )

My question is what if we could mount an energy type wepon given to us by the azgard to the front of a jumper and found away to power it?

Any thoughts?

Cory Holmes
June 8th, 2007, 05:28 AM
Waste of resources. Drones are the epitome of weapons technology, with the possible exception of an Ori Battlecruiser's main cannon. As long as you have drones available, why go with something less?

Schuey
June 8th, 2007, 05:37 AM
Drones are like bullets, they will run out. Would be nice to have a back up weapon, just in case

marty2006
June 8th, 2007, 08:41 AM
Sounds like a decent idea dont see them doing it however.

TKG
June 8th, 2007, 08:50 AM
I think C. Holmes is right it's a waste of resources to further arm something so fragile combat-wise. They'd be better off making a fully combat-capable version of the 'jumper from scratch instead.

Athosian Death facilitator
June 8th, 2007, 08:51 AM
I would like to see it happen but asgard stuff mixed with ancient technology is kind of not worth it because mixing alien technology is bad and too predictable.

Cam_Mitchell
June 8th, 2007, 09:04 AM
A Rain Gun would look nice, and even better why not put some beaming tech in there, that would be sooo useful!

Cap116
June 8th, 2007, 11:28 AM
Well, the puddlejumper can only hold 6 or so drones, wouldn't be a good idea to add something that can be used when they run out. Rail guns would work well against the Wraith since they have no shields. I guess the real question is with a rail gun mounted on a PJ, would the rail gun cloak when the PJ cloaks?

PG15
June 8th, 2007, 12:05 PM
It won't fit through a gate then.

Wraith_Boy
June 8th, 2007, 02:36 PM
Ok foks,

We no the puddle jumpers are equip with cloaking tech ( which can be switch to a shield ) and drones. McKay was working on a hyperdrive system for the puddle jumper in the ep ( TAO McKay )

My question is what if we could mount an energy type wepon given to us by the azgard to the front of a jumper and found away to power it?

Any thoughts?

Why haven't they installed any warheads on them or whatever up until this point. We saw what a 302's arsenal could cripple a Hive in 'No Man's Land' with a well placed shot. Therefore they can do that already but they haven't. If they did, a PJ could sneak up undetected to a Hive or Cruiser then attack it without anyone being able to stop them. Yet that have ignored this, even though it could be done without any problems. They could also install beaming technology on them, then sneak up on Hives who may not have their jamming technology activated, allowing them to blow the crap out of it by beaming a nuke on board. What are the chances we'll see them installing energy weapons on them or anything else for that matter. Not only is it a fanboys idea of a wet-dream (that probably will never happen anyhow), but there is nothing to even suggest that they can duplicate the weapons at all as of yet. At the very least wait until they have them on another 304 other than Odyssey before even thinking of such stuff!


Waste of resources. Drones are the epitome of weapons technology, with the possible exception of an Ori Battlecruiser's main cannon. As long as you have drones available, why go with something less?

Two reasons!

1. They are finite. Meaning they will eventually run out because only so many can be carried at any one time.

2. Firing them in large quantities means you need to have a lot of power in reserve.

The perfect example of this was in 'The Road Not Taken'. They fought off a single Ori ship by firing their drones. Which run down the zpm to a low level.

Yet in 'Unending', they destroyed 2 Ori ships in the space of a few shots, only taking a few seconds for each ship.

Energy weapons are esentially infinite as long as you have the power to keep them going. Therefore, they are by far a better thing to have than drones & if anything drones are a waste of resources. They'd probably be best kept as a last backup alternative incase the primary energy weapons were damaged or weren't effective against the particular enemy.

talyn2k1
June 8th, 2007, 03:06 PM
It won't fit through a gate then.

They could be installed in the weapons pods in place of some/all of the drones, not sure if a rail gun would be small enough to fit though.
@Cap116 - They would cloak with the jumper as the cloak is essentially a bubble, same as the shields. Anything within that bubble will become cloaked.

Beaming tech: We have no idea how big the actual unit that does the beaming is and whether or not it requires extra emitters/receivers placed on positions on the hull in order to function. Might be that it wouldn't fit in a Jumper.

@Athosian Death Facilitator - There is an inherent problem when you start mixing technologies of different origins. While a built from scratch version would be preferrable, in the short term I think we would have enough experience with Ancient and Asgard technology to be able to merge them aboard a Jumper with relatively few problems. But, like you say, even if it works there could be unexpected problems along the way and their interaction would be unpredictable in certain circumstances.
Nice name by the way :D

Wraith_Boy
June 8th, 2007, 05:42 PM
Beaming tech: We have no idea how big the actual unit that does the beaming is and whether or not it requires extra emitters/receivers placed on positions on the hull in order to function. Might be that it wouldn't fit in a Jumper.


In 'Revelations', it was fitted on a Goa'uld cargo ship by the Asgard if I remember correctly.

Even if it wasn't by default feasible to install on a PJ, they simply scale it back, meaning they get a smaller size but less range on it etc.

Col. Matarrese
June 8th, 2007, 06:11 PM
In 'Revelations', it was fitted on a Goa'uld cargo ship by the Asgard if I remember correctly.

Even if it wasn't by default feasible to install on a PJ, they simply scale it back, meaning they get a smaller size but less range on it etc.


I'm not sure of the size, but I thought Cargo ships were actually quite large compared to Puddle Jumpers

Wraith_Boy
June 8th, 2007, 06:56 PM
I'm not sure of the size, but I thought Cargo ships were actually quite large compared to Puddle Jumpers

I know that, but the point I'm trying to make is that they can be scaled down from something massive like that of an Asgard mothership, to something minute by comparison.

They don't need the full version. All they would need to improve the PJ immensly would be to give it beaming capabilities from a couple hundred m's away. This way they can either cloak in on a target/location, then beam what they want on or off. Even if cloak was damaged or they decided to use shields for whatever reason. They simply swoop over the target, beam, then get back outta there asap.

I simply put it forth that they had the technology already, along with warheads or rail guns etc. Yet have never ever bought it up before. So if they don't bother with technology that they have, then I seriously doubt that they'll bother with trying to integrate energy weapons in, especially since we don't even know if the writers will plan on giving them in Atlantis!

TKG
June 8th, 2007, 08:09 PM
It won't fit through a gate then.


Ever hear of theworld war II bomber called the mitchell? They mounted a tank cannon through the nose in a variant so it wouldn't stand out against the profile as well as allowing phenominal firepower. they could do something close with the jumper.

Major Tyler
June 8th, 2007, 08:12 PM
A PJ with "Unending" Asgard cannons and beaming tech sounds like total fanwank to me.
In 'Revelations', it was fitted on a Goa'uld cargo ship by the Asgard if I remember correctly.Nope. The transporter was part of the Asgard lab, not the tel'tak.

2ndgenerationalteran
June 8th, 2007, 08:36 PM
I think putting a hyperdrive on the PJs are a waste of resources because, they dont even have a bathroom for a flight like that. It would either have to have an increadibly fast hyperdrive or only be used for very short jumps.

Major Tyler
June 8th, 2007, 08:40 PM
I think putting a hyperdrive on the PJs are a waste of resources because, they dont even have a bathroom for a flight like that. It would either have to have an increadibly fast hyperdrive or only be used for very short jumps.I'm sure the could bring a bucket or something for those long journeys. Just remember to blow the rear hatch after someone has "blown their rear hatch" to get rid of the smell.

Exiled Master
June 8th, 2007, 10:07 PM
Fanwanking aside, the power source would be big enough to compromise the PJ's most common current function, as a short-range troop transport.
The only thing I can really suggest for the PJ would be a food replicator for :sheppard: and :mckay:. You can take a dump anywhere, but food is harder to find when you're on an alien planet.
A :wraith: culling beam would be more useful than an :thor: beaming system for a few reasons: no scrambling/jamming, can fit on a jumper, and has manageable power requirements.

StevenCaldwell
June 11th, 2007, 02:24 AM
Fanwanking aside, the power source would be big enough to compromise the PJ's most common current function, as a short-range troop transport.
The only thing I can really suggest for the PJ would be a food replicator for :sheppard: and :mckay:. You can take a dump anywhere, but food is harder to find when you're on an alien planet.
A :wraith: culling beam would be more useful than an :thor: beaming system for a few reasons: no scrambling/jamming, can fit on a jumper, and has manageable power requirements.

I agree, a wraith culling beam would be better, but remember what happend in the ep DUET in season 2, were Mckay and Lt Cadmen, where beamed up? The dart was shot down and there was Insufficient power to deam them both out. If we were to apply this to a jumper, and it was shot down, we could loose a good number of Atlantis's crew.

Azgard beaming tech would be more Beneficial to the jumper, than a culling beam.

IcyNeko
June 11th, 2007, 02:19 PM
Ugh. No matter how long the series runs, and how many threads like this spawn, people never get it.

When you make external modifications to a ship, such as cutting into the hull to add a weapon system (be it asgard lasers or adding an extra missile launch tube or a machine gun), you weaken the ship's overall hull strength. On a huge starship, and when upgraded by people who are familiar with all technology involved (both the item to be added as well as the item to receive the modifications), they can do this with minimal stress to the overall structure. When done by people who have no clue (like humans), there's a high risk of "doing it wrong" and weakening an object far beyond acceptable parameters.

Adding a starship energy weapon onto a shuttle that is a fraction of the starship's size also means that the weapon is drawing incredible amounts of power off the shuttle's limited resources. Puddle jumpers aren't powered by ZPMs. They can't sustain power forever. I'm going to assume that, even if they could manage to squeeze off a shot from the new asgard weapons, they would take forever to recharge, if they could recharge. Most likely not. You'd end up draining a heck of a lot of power out of the ship's power supply.

And before any toolish "but we could move the power supply on the puddlejumper", let's just go with "no you can't".

Why could a hyperspace engine work? Hyperspace generators generate a field, and the generators are located inside a starship. This means that they could feasibly mock up a mini-generator and put it in the cargo hold. I wouldn't require cutting into the hull. It's doable.

But this all goes back to what kind of tool wants to turn a shuttle into a multi-purpose warship. The ancients never designed the ship to be an ancient-battleship-killer.

StevenCaldwell
June 12th, 2007, 02:46 AM
yeah but if we can mount a energy wepon to the front on a puddle jumper, if would better. In the ep Seige part III, when Mckay detects the 12 hives ships heading towards Atlantis. if we where to find something like that again, but with one or two hives. then we could send a jumper through the nearest stargate to blow them up.

Jimbo-DR
June 12th, 2007, 09:17 AM
Yea... but again, its not designed to do that. If we were gonna attempt that, you'd be better off trying to do it to like the 302's or to something thats DESIGNED for fighting. Puddle Jumpers are literally designed for transport and have minimal weapons and defenses. It would be like if I tried to turn my soccer mom van into a tank.

Ravroz
June 12th, 2007, 12:16 PM
I agree with you that a jumper might not have been specifically designed for combat. But we have all seen that when it's cloak is converted into a shield it stands up to even a glancing blow from a drone. That could be very valuable coupled with a hyperdrive installed on it. Although we have no way to recharge the energy module in it that has been spoken of and there is a very limited number of jumpers. I would agree that in dire emergencies they could be used as a fairly effective fighter.

IcyNeko
June 12th, 2007, 12:21 PM
While we're at it, let's put a Synchro cannon on the ship, add a transwarp drive, and put a hot tub in the cockpit. That way, we can shoot everything and go into battle in pimpin style.

Because that's TOTALLY WHAT THE ANCIENTS WANTED IN THEIR SHIP.

In other news GORG GORG GORG GORG GORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRG

StevenCaldwell
June 13th, 2007, 01:13 AM
While we're at it, let's put a Synchro cannon on the ship, add a transwarp drive, and put a hot tub in the cockpit. That way, we can shoot everything and go into battle in pimpin style.

Because that's TOTALLY WHAT THE ANCIENTS WANTED IN THEIR SHIP.

In other news GORG GORG GORG GORG GORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRG

Alright calm down! read the title of this thread " Puddle jumpers and weaponry SPECULATIONS" doesn't mean its going to happend.
it was just an idea for the fans to think about and have theres say on it, theres no need to get all sarcastic.

IcyNeko
June 14th, 2007, 11:30 AM
As a fan, I want all of the above. Nay, I DEMAND all of the above.

MechaThor
June 18th, 2007, 05:16 AM
As we know Pubble Jumper Power is limited and is already on an equal balance. Adding a new weapon will just drain even more power! Unless we put two F-302 machine guns on the front and power them with an internal Human built genarator!

My question is how many Drone dose a PJ have? It must be like 6-8 at most as they are rather Big in size (about the same as an average pet cat)
So would it not be better 2 replace the Drone pods with machine/laser guns?

StevenCaldwell
June 18th, 2007, 06:50 AM
As we know Pubble Jumper Power is limited and is already on an equal balance. Adding a new weapon will just drain even more power! Unless we put two F-302 machine guns on the front and power them with an internal Human built genarator!

My question is how many Drone dose a PJ have? It must be like 6-8 at most as they are rather Big in size (about the same as an average pet cat)
So would it not be better 2 replace the Drone pods with machine/laser guns?

Drone are unsustainable, I think there are 3 or 4 in each pod. we could do with a wepon that is infinite, ie like a energy connon of some kind. The jumpers power system would run the ship and if we could interface a genarator to power the wepon. We could do with a wepon that infinite.

Dev Corvin
June 18th, 2007, 07:32 AM
If you watch a Puddle Jumper fire, you can see that there's 4 "slots" on each side for drones. However, when one fires, another drone is loaded into the slot, like a magazine-loaded semiautomatic pistol, so that 4 are still loaded in each side. Tbh, I'm not sure if we'll ever know exactly how many drones each jumper carries.

jonty-comp
June 18th, 2007, 08:19 AM
However, when one fires, another drone is loaded into the slot, like a magazine-loaded semiautomatic pistol, so that 4 are still loaded in each side.
Yeah, the magazines of drones seem to spout from nowhere in particular. :S

They could be stored under the floor or something, though.

StevenCaldwell
June 18th, 2007, 08:51 AM
Well they can be stored pritty much any where. Remember when Mckay runs into the Drone Armoury in the Episode " The Tower " they where just stacked in a metal rack. So there could possable be 10-15 drones housed in each side pod.

Evil_Genius_McKay
June 18th, 2007, 11:52 AM
I like the PJs just the way they are. They are more of a shuttle than fighter. Why does everything have to be a warship anyway? The Lanteans seemed to be very strong in defense, but they didn't appear to be very aggresive. I'm sure they never intended the PJ to have a large weapon on it, that is what they have Aurora's for.

Who knows if it is even possible, maybe if it were they would have one on there already. The dones are plenty enough, sure they run out, but what are we trying to do turn the PJs into cap ship killers? What is the point?

I think any major modifications like that would just be stupid and not very believable. The space-frame couldn't hold the stress of a large mounted weapon not to mention it wouldn't fit through the gate. The PJs barely fit through the gate as it is. Not to mention like people said it would need its own ZPM to make it work!! It is like taking a VW bug and trying to convert it into a pickup.

Besides all we need is more lazer guns on ships. The drones were actually a refreshing unique weapon that is incredibly powerful and people want to take them off of the PJs? Crazy.

StevenCaldwell
June 19th, 2007, 01:53 AM
I like the PJs just the way they are. They are more of a shuttle than fighter. Why does everything have to be a warship anyway? The Lanteans seemed to be very strong in defense, but they didn't appear to be very aggresive. I'm sure they never intended the PJ to have a large weapon on it, that is what they have Aurora's for.

Who knows if it is even possible, maybe if it were they would have one on there already. The dones are plenty enough, sure they run out, but what are we trying to do turn the PJs into cap ship killers? What is the point?

I think any major modifications like that would just be stupid and not very believable. The space-frame couldn't hold the stress of a large mounted weapon not to mention it wouldn't fit through the gate. The PJs barely fit through the gate as it is. Not to mention like people said it would need its own ZPM to make it work!! It is like taking a VW bug and trying to convert it into a pickup.

Besides all we need is more lazer guns on ships. The drones were actually a refreshing unique weapon that is incredibly powerful and people want to take them off of the PJs? Crazy.

No we dont want to take drones of the puddle jumpers, just add a little extra kick when we are empty of drones.

Say for instance, we were out exploring and we run into a hive ship? We take the first hit which damages the cloaking generator, we could fire back with all the drones we had but i dont think it would distroy the hive. Remember how many drones it took from the Orion to bring down a hive in " No man land " more a than a puddle jumper can carry anyway. plus it Would be nice to come back with some other wepon -EG- Energy or rye wepon of some kind.

MechaThor
June 19th, 2007, 03:15 AM
If you watch a Puddle Jumper fire, you can see that there's 4 "slots" on each side for drones. However, when one fires, another drone is loaded into the slot, like a magazine-loaded semiautomatic pistol, so that 4 are still loaded in each side. Tbh, I'm not sure if we'll ever know exactly how many drones each jumper carries.

The Pubble Jumper already as little room to store stuff in its walls let along even more Cat sized Drone. Unless they are stored in sub space of like the Jaffa horus helmets (but surly that would drain more power). Also don't 4get the pods also have to store the engines and under the floor has to store any power supply, ventilation systems and a small hatch to store stuff.
I would say in the realistic talking world of the gateworld fanbase the jumpers have 4 in each pod, yet in the writers heads its as many as needed to get the story told.

StevenCaldwell
June 19th, 2007, 03:53 AM
I still think we need another wepon on bord incase we run out of drones.
beaming tech to beam bombs or a 302's machine gun, just something to use if drones run out.

theboywonder
June 19th, 2007, 07:37 AM
In 'Revelations', it was fitted on a Goa'uld cargo ship by the Asgard if I remember correctly.

Even if it wasn't by default feasible to install on a PJ, they simply scale it back, meaning they get a smaller size but less range on it etc.

i dont think it was, i believe it was the asgard laboratory that had the tech. not the cargo ship

Evil_Genius_McKay
June 19th, 2007, 08:30 AM
I took some screencaps of the PJ weapon pods. There are actually six spots not four that hold drones. 3 and 3. I think there are pods on the other side as well so that makes 12 done spots. We have seen them shoot them in clusters of three and one at a time. The pod comes out of the panel right in front of the engine pod. Unsure how many drones are in he inside of the ship to reload.

If you study the ship there isn't really any critical spaces on the ship open to put another weapon on. Anyone in here play Mechwarrior? It is kind of like Mechwarrior. You may have a big huge mech but you can't just put your weapons anywhere you have critical spaces that can hold certain size and type weapons.

Xzyl
June 19th, 2007, 07:06 PM
I like the PJs just the way they are. They are more of a shuttle than fighter.


So what, is there a law forbidding the arming of shuttles? Star Trek Federation shuttles are armed as are SW Imperial shuttles. Even a recent episode of Stargate showed an armed Teltak.


Why does everything have to be a warship anyway?

Not everything does. I agree that trying to turn the PJs into an anti-ship bomber is just absurd. It does not carrry anywhere near the number of drones needed to destroy a hive ship. Even with the sheilds the PJs cant hold up to constant bombardment a warship can bring to bare on it. This howver does not mean that they can not be better equiped to deal with Darts. Situations like at the end of Rising are all to easy to happen.


The Lanteans seemed to be very strong in defense, but they didn't appear to be very aggresive.

It does not seem that strong to me. Just drones on Atlantis itself and three defense satellites elsewhere in the solar system no where near the planet Atlantis is on. Yeah they also had warships but given the level of tech disparity between the two they should have been a lot more formidable. Then again the Ancients have never been good at effectively using the tech they had. Instead of just relying on a physical magazine they could have also used their transporter tech's buffer to act as a virtual magazine that reloads the physical magazine when it runs out. This would have allowed them to have far more drone than they could carry. Hell they should have had them on their warships and city ships.



I'm sure they never intended the PJ to have a large weapon on it, ...


I'm sure that they proboly never intended to have the PJs armed at all but had to make do as time progressed. Besides why does it have to be a large weapon an anti fighter sized one is what it needs.



...that is what they have Aurora's for.


Unfortunately you do not always get to know in advanced that your going to get in an all out brawl when you only intended to go out and do something minor.



Who knows if it is even possible, maybe if it were they would have one on there already.


Thats the biggest BS argument I have heard all week. A Wraith Dart, a craft a lot less advanced than a PJ and small enough to fit in a PJ, can have an energy cannon and a teleporter; then it stands to reason.the Ancients should have been able to do the same as well given that they are more advanced than the Wraith.



The dones are plenty enough, sure they run out, but what are we trying to do turn the PJs into cap ship killers? What is the point?


I agree that turning it into a cap ship killer is a bad idea. But augmenting its ability to defend itself against Darts, the most common type of enemy craft they run into, is not a bad idea.



I think any major modifications like that would just be stupid and not very believable.


I don't think you really thought it out.



The space-frame couldn't hold the stress of a large mounted weapon not to mention it wouldn't fit through the gate. The PJs barely fit through the gate as it is.


Remove one or two drones from each pod replace it with a gun. Plug it into the PJ's power grid. Connect the gun's fire control system to the PJ's data feeds and fire control system (given the number of times that they have fired a drone via a laptop it should not be a big problem). Reprogram the PJ's hud to have a target rectical and your done.



Not to mention like people said it would need its own ZPM to make it work!!


You do not need a ZPM level power source to get fighter level firepower.



It is like taking a VW bug and trying to convert it into a pickup.


No its like taking a missile only fighter and adding a gun pod to it (see the history of the F-4).



Besides all we need is more lazer guns on ships


Of course we do. What do you expect their crews to use after their munitions have been expended, harsh language?



The drones were actually a refreshing unique weapon that is incredibly powerful and people want to take them off of the PJs? Crazy.

Unique? They are just another type of fancy missile right along with photon torpedoes. The Mark IX warhead is significantly more powerful than a drone. And show me the post where it stated that drones should be totally abandoned.

StevenCaldwell
June 20th, 2007, 03:59 AM
Well if Mckay can figer out away to increase the amount of drones each jumper carries, like say 20-30 drones at a time. Then if we did run into a hive then we could at least cours it some damge before cloaking a flying back to the nearest gate.

Evil_Genius_McKay
June 20th, 2007, 07:07 AM
So what, is there a law forbidding the arming of shuttles? Star Trek Federation shuttles are armed as are SW Imperial shuttles. Even a recent episode of Stargate showed an armed Teltak.



Not everything does. I agree that trying to turn the PJs into an anti-ship bomber is just absurd. It does not carrry anywhere near the number of drones needed to destroy a hive ship. Even with the sheilds the PJs cant hold up to constant bombardment a warship can bring to bare on it. This howver does not mean that they can not be better equiped to deal with Darts. Situations like at the end of Rising are all to easy to happen.



It does not seem that strong to me. Just drones on Atlantis itself and three defense satellites elsewhere in the solar system no where near the planet Atlantis is on. Yeah they also had warships but given the level of tech disparity between the two they should have been a lot more formidable. Then again the Ancients have never been good at effectively using the tech they had. Instead of just relying on a physical magazine they could have also used their transporter tech's buffer to act as a virtual magazine that reloads the physical magazine when it runs out. This would have allowed them to have far more drone than they could carry. Hell they should have had them on their warships and city ships.



I'm sure that they proboly never intended to have the PJs armed at all but had to make do as time progressed. Besides why does it have to be a large weapon an anti fighter sized one is what it needs.



Unfortunately you do not always get to know in advanced that your going to get in an all out brawl when you only intended to go out and do something minor.



Thats the biggest BS argument I have heard all week. A Wraith Dart, a craft a lot less advanced than a PJ and small enough to fit in a PJ, can have an energy cannon and a teleporter; then it stands to reason.the Ancients should have been able to do the same as well given that they are more advanced than the Wraith.



I agree that turning it into a cap ship killer is a bad idea. But augmenting its ability to defend itself against Darts, the most common type of enemy craft they run into, is not a bad idea.



I don't think you really thought it out.



Remove one or two drones from each pod replace it with a gun. Plug it into the PJ's power grid. Connect the gun's fire control system to the PJ's data feeds and fire control system (given the number of times that they have fired a drone via a laptop it should not be a big problem). Reprogram the PJ's hud to have a target rectical and your done.



You do not need a ZPM level power source to get fighter level firepower.



No its like taking a missile only fighter and adding a gun pod to it (see the history of the F-4).



Of course we do. What do you expect their crews to use after their munitions have been expended, harsh language?



Unique? They are just another type of fancy missile right along with photon torpedoes. The Mark IX warhead is significantly more powerful than a drone. And show me the post where it stated that drones should be totally abandoned.

Did you read what I said about critical spaces? The vast majority of the PJ is empty space on the inside for the cockpit and the cargo area. The outer frame is actually very thin. We know that in the rear section the critical space is occupied by the engine pods, which I don't think you can get rid of. Next in front of that you have the critical space taken up by the drone launchers and drone magazine. That leaves you with small critical spaces around the cockpit that are probably already used up with the rest of the equipment.

I'm also not sure they can remove a couple of launchers and slap on a railgun instead because the railguns have to be a lot larger than the drone launchers. Look at a railgun. The ones we have seen so far wouldn't even fit in the PJ. I think the Wraith weapons would be the most probable thing to put on the PJ.

What we need is a cutaway of the interior of the ship, a good schematic then we might be able to say if it is possible.

Here is the size of a drone, size of launcher and size of railgun. Clearly unless they figure out how to micro shrink a rail gun it isn't happening. The size of weapon that would be able to replace a drone slot would be at most maybe 50 cal. but I think you would have to remore two drone spots.

MechaThor
June 20th, 2007, 07:17 AM
Did you read what I said about critical spaces? The vast majority of the PJ is empty space on the inside for the cockpit and the cargo area. The outer frame is actually very thin. We know that in the rear section the critical space is occupied by the engine pods, which I don't think you can get rid of. Next in front of that you have the critical space taken up by the drone launchers and drone magazine. That leaves you with small critical spaces around the cockpit that are probably already used up with the rest of the equipment.

I'm also not sure they can remove a couple of launchers and slap on a railgun instead because the railguns have to be a lot larger than the drone launchers. Look at a railgun. The ones we have seen so far wouldn't even fit in the PJ. I think the Wraith weapons would be the most probable thing to put on the PJ.

What we need is a cutaway of the interior of the ship, a good schematic then we might be able to say if it is possible.

Here is the size of a drone, size of launcher and size of railgun. Clearly unless they figure out how to micro shrink a rail gun it isn't happening. The size of weapon that would be able to replace a drone slot would be at most maybe 50 cal. but I think you would have to remore two drone spots.

DAM! You don't have to slap that rail gun on it. However it would be funny 2 see a PJ with a railgun on its roof. Instead just replcae the Drones with the F-302's Machine guns. I am sure they will fit. Or stick two Staff Canons onto the front with some duck tape lol. It worked for that cargo ship in bounty (only without the duck tape).

I do like you idea of the Wrath weapons on it as they are both powerful, quick firey and as far as we know infinate ammo. However getting them out of a Dart may be hard as they look built in.

Evil_Genius_McKay
June 20th, 2007, 08:03 AM
DAM! You don't have to slap that rail gun on it. However it would be funny 2 see a PJ with a railgun on its roof. Instead just replcae the Drones with the F-302's Machine guns. I am sure they will fit. Or stick two Staff Canons onto the front with some duck tape lol. It worked for that cargo ship in bounty (only without the duck tape).

I do like you idea of the Wrath weapons on it as they are both powerful, quick firey and as far as we know infinate ammo. However getting them out of a Dart may be hard as they look built in.

Yeah it would be hillarious to see that rail gun on the PJ! or maybe one of those large artillery style staff guns!

But yeah I'm thinking that cannibilizing a Wraith dart's cannons and integrating them would be the best idea. The Wraith darts are small so I'm sure their weapons would easily fit on the PJ plus I'm sure they are more powerful than the 302's machine guns. That is assuming McKay could figure out how the Wraith tech works and then how to patch it into the existing ancient tech. Does anyone know what kind of cannons the 302 uses?

StevenCaldwell
June 21st, 2007, 02:05 AM
DAM! You don't have to slap that rail gun on it. However it would be funny 2 see a PJ with a railgun on its roof. Instead just replcae the Drones with the F-302's Machine guns. I am sure they will fit. Or stick two Staff Canons onto the front with some duck tape lol. It worked for that cargo ship in bounty (only without the duck tape).

I do like you idea of the Wrath weapons on it as they are both powerful, quick firey and as far as we know infinate ammo. However getting them out of a Dart may be hard as they look built in.

But thats just it we dont want to get rid of the drone pod's. just increase the size to hold more. Yeah it would be good to see a railgun on a jumper, and the good thing is that they dont need a massive amount of power.

Evil_Genius_McKay
June 21st, 2007, 09:30 PM
I was looking at the bottom of the jumper and it has two long recessed areas on either side of it that could be workable for putting in drop-down weapons. You could retract them back up into those spaces when it goes through the gate. If necessary the ammunition could be housed in the cargo area.

StevenCaldwell
June 22nd, 2007, 02:09 AM
I was looking at the bottom of the jumper and it has two long recessed areas on either side of it that could be workable for putting in drop-down weapons. You could retract them back up into those spaces when it goes through the gate. If necessary the ammunition could be housed in the cargo area.


Yeah that could work, even if we stored the weapons in the back hold, and when we activate the weapons the drop down through the hull. and seals it self shut to stop decompression in the rear compartment.

i.e Weapons like 302's machine gun or two rails guns, like the one on the Daedalus. Or even a few mark 8 bombs!

IcyNeko
June 22nd, 2007, 01:27 PM
Cutting the jumper's hull to add drop down weapons will compromise the hull. Those type of things are features that are never added on after teh fact. It's always designed in the original construction. Otehrwise, you weaken the ship. That's why I went on a whole rant about not adding extra earth crap to make the jumpers anything but waht they are to begin with. Especially since we don't ahve the technology to make major repairs on damaged jumpers.

As for adding rail guns, yeah. haha, it would be cool, haha, except for the, haha, ammo. haha.

Cuz you know, ship-side cannons have a long feed and ammo storage units. You don't get those in puddle jumpers unless you cut even more into the hull and just crap out the puddle jumper.

Which is why the asgard have always said that as a race, we're too young to get new tech. because we automatically assume we can slap gunz and missilez on it and turn a shuttle into a battlewagon.

haha. no, it's not really funny. I just have no other reaction.

IcyNeko
June 22nd, 2007, 01:29 PM
I do like you idea of the Wrath weapons on it as they are both powerful, quick firey and as far as we know infinate ammo.

Infinite ammo? They're tied into a freaking reactor. If you "strap them on the hull", you still NEED TO TIE THEM INTO A REACTOR. No power, no weapons. This isn't rocket science. This is 1st grade "MOMMY MY TOY IS OUT OF BATTERIES" logic.

Evil_Genius_McKay
June 22nd, 2007, 04:27 PM
Infinite ammo? They're tied into a freaking reactor. If you "strap them on the hull", you still NEED TO TIE THEM INTO A REACTOR. No power, no weapons. This isn't rocket science. This is 1st grade "MOMMY MY TOY IS OUT OF BATTERIES" logic.

Good point, my bad on that one. I'm the one who proposed the wraith weapons. But I was grasping for something that might acctually be feasible, looks like I was wrong on that too.

Personally I'm with you I don't think it would be workable to add anything like that to a jumper, but several people in here seem to think it is possible so I kept searching for something that might be halfway doable, not "oh let me go get my lego jumper and see what kind of weapons I can put on it!"

Xzyl
June 23rd, 2007, 04:22 PM
Yes I read you stated about critical spaces. Thats why I suggested the removing one to two drones from each engine pod to free up space. The struts the engine pods are on are already high strength to handle weight of the engine and the stresses it puts on them. Plus it would have the advantage of being able to make use of the power and control lines that already run to the engines. It does not require cutting into the hull it does not require major modification the frame.

And screw rail guns and machinguns you are just trading one ammo dependent weapon for another. After whats shown in Bounty and Unending an anti-fighter grade energy cannon should now be within their capability. And if its not we can go with salvaging Darts weapons idea.

Evil_Genius_McKay
June 23rd, 2007, 09:01 PM
Yes I read you stated about critical spaces. Thats why I suggested the removing one to two drones from each engine pod to free up space. The struts the engine pods are on are already high strength to handle weight of the engine and the stresses it puts on them. Plus it would have the advantage of being able to make use of the power and control lines that already run to the engines. It does not require cutting into the hull it does not require major modification the frame.

And screw rail guns and machinguns you are just trading one ammo dependent weapon for another. After whats shown in Bounty and Unending an anti-fighter grade energy cannon should now be within their capability. And if its not we can go with salvaging Darts weapons idea.


The drones are actually on a second smaller pylon just in front of the engine pylon. It isn't as large and may not be able to handle something much large.

You could be right about that anti-fighter grade cannon, but that is yet to be seen.

StevenCaldwell
June 25th, 2007, 02:30 AM
If we added a drop down weapon system and re-enforce the hull, Then the hull wouldn't buckell under the extra wait and the rear compartment would de-pressurise. The jumper would still be small enough to fit through the gate and you would have some other form of weapon apart from drones.
I think an 302's machine gun or a Daedalus type rail gun, would work better in this situation.

IcyNeko
June 25th, 2007, 01:57 PM
You're still cutting away at the hull. It's not a matter of weight (as I'm sure the PJ's hull is more than amplely strong), it's the issue that, by making such cuts, you've already weakened the integrity of the hull. It's more succeptible to breaking apart under fire, AND it's no longer airtight.

If this were a good idea, the Atlantis team would have done so. Thus far, they know better.

StevenCaldwell
June 26th, 2007, 01:34 AM
You're still cutting away at the hull. It's not a matter of weight (as I'm sure the PJ's hull is more than amplely strong), it's the issue that, by making such cuts, you've already weakened the integrity of the hull. It's more succeptible to breaking apart under fire, AND it's no longer airtight.

If this were a good idea, the Atlantis team would have done so. Thus far, they know better.

NO the hull wouldn't buckell in battel because we would re-enforce the area around the cut. A drop down weapon system is better that just mounting a weapon to the front of a puddle jumper. You have the element of surprise then.

IcyNeko
June 27th, 2007, 07:44 AM
NO the hull wouldn't buckell in battel because we would re-enforce the area around the cut. A drop down weapon system is better that just mounting a weapon to the front of a puddle jumper. You have the element of surprise then.

Are you in any way an engineer with a degree from an accredited university? At all? Because in all the engineering classes I've ever taken, they've stated pretty clearly that once you REMOVE something, you can REINFORCE IT all you want, and it will STILL BE WEAKER than it was before. You will ALWAYS lose structural strength.

We won't even talk about making the cut out section airtight, because THAT WILL ALWAYS BE A PROBLEM EVEN MORE SO IN SPACE.

BTW, adding a DROP DOWN SYSTEM effectively closes every space behind the cockpit. Now the pilot can't get in and out of the puddlejumper. Brilliant. Just brilliant.

And before you say a word, yes it does. EVER NOTICE HOW THE F22'S DROP DOWN SYSTEM IS WAY BEHIND THE COCKPIT? MAYBE BECAUSE THE SERVOS ARE A BIG SPACE CONSUMING? What about the Missiles? Or the guidance systems? We're talking about new hardware that has to be installed. Sure, we can tie into the Ancient systems, but that requires new components still needing to be added. And the pilot still can't get into the puddlejumper.

OH I KNOW LET'S CUT A DOOR ON THE FRONT SIDE. And while we're at it, let's add RIMS and a disco ball that protrude from the top of the Puddle Jumper.

StevenCaldwell
June 28th, 2007, 03:20 AM
Because in all the engineering classes I've ever taken, they've stated pretty clearly that once you REMOVE something, you can REINFORCE IT all you want, and it will STILL BE WEAKER than it was before. You will ALWAYS lose structural strength.

BTW, adding a DROP DOWN SYSTEM effectively closes every space behind the cockpit. Now the pilot can't get in and out of the puddlejumper. Brilliant. Just brilliant.

OH I KNOW LET'S CUT A DOOR ON THE FRONT SIDE. And while we're at it, let's add RIMS and a disco ball that protrude from the top of the Puddle Jumper.

Ok First of all you need to take chill pill. I have some knowledge in engineering. Yeah the hull will loose structural strength, but not enough to do any damage.

And there would be space for the pilot to get into the jumper. If we added a 302's machine gun on drop down system then you would still have space to move around in.

oh and i thought you should know jumpers dont have wheels. ( $%!/ )

Ehecatl
July 2nd, 2007, 03:43 PM
I agree, a wraith culling beam would be better, but remember what happend in the ep DUET in season 2, were Mckay and Lt Cadmen, where beamed up? The dart was shot down and there was Insufficient power to deam them both out. If we were to apply this to a jumper, and it was shot down, we could loose a good number of Atlantis's crew.

Azgard beaming tech would be more Beneficial to the jumper, than a culling beam.


After McKay lost the Ancient knowledge he couldn't make heads or tails of any of his work anyway.

IcyNeko
July 3rd, 2007, 07:42 AM
oh and i thought you should know jumpers dont have wheels. ( $%!/ )

No, but while we're adding random garbage on the Jumper, why not add wheels too. Just so we can have them drop down for the sole purpose of having spinners. Christ, if I'm going into battle with an human-ruined ancient shuttle, I want to go in style.