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lunchbox
May 21st, 2007, 01:01 PM
Do you think the team will ever full chart the entire city room by room?

I mean, there literally has to be a lab or something where the Ancients made ZPMs, jumpers and drones. Where else would they get them if not there in the city?

Also, do you think McKay is smart enough to access the terminals that we saw the commander of the Ancient warship access just as soon as she returned to the city?

monkey_man132
May 21st, 2007, 05:23 PM
1-800-PLOT-HOLE

Of course the Ancients made drones and such, we just take VERY long to find them. They have database for everything, a lot of episodes they say "we saw this in the database", or "we heard of these people in the database" but they can't look for a sign that says 'ZPM ROOM THIS WAY' in the database. Maybe TPTB will make an interesting way for us finding the rooms you mentioned in season 4.

Wraith_Boy
May 21st, 2007, 05:49 PM
Do you think the team will ever full chart the entire city room by room?

I mean, there literally has to be a lab or something where the Ancients made ZPMs, jumpers and drones. Where else would they get them if not there in the city?

Also, do you think McKay is smart enough to access the terminals that we saw the commander of the Ancient warship access just as soon as she returned to the city?

You can be pretty much assured that everything is available to them in the database. It's simply a plot hole to allow the show to continue & keep them the underdogs that they haven't found anything of real value yet.

Think how hard it would be for them to write stories if they could make ZPM's, Drones & all the rest. Not that I think that's a bad thing, quite the contrary in actual fact. So it's simply easier/quicker/simpler for the writers to ignore this, make them massive underdogs against seemingly unbeatable enemies but always win in the end. Either thanks to a last minute uber weapon that they find, or a brilliant piece of ingenuity from Shep or McKay when it looks like they're screwed & out of time.

I doubt we'll ever get to see anything of real value taken from Atlantis before the show inevitably meets it's maker.

HyperspaceDaemon
May 22nd, 2007, 12:16 AM
You can be pretty much assured that everything is available to them in the database. It's simply a plot hole to allow the show to continue & keep them the underdogs that they haven't found anything of real value yet.

Think how hard it would be for them to write stories if they could make ZPM's, Drones & all the rest. Not that I think that's a bad thing, quite the contrary in actual fact. So it's simply easier/quicker/simpler for the writers to ignore this, make them massive underdogs against seemingly unbeatable enemies but always win in the end. Either thanks to a last minute uber weapon that they find, or a brilliant piece of ingenuity from Shep or McKay when it looks like they're screwed & out of time.

I doubt we'll ever get to see anything of real value taken from Atlantis before the show inevitably meets it's maker.

I have the same impression that we won't see too many advanced things
actually obtained from Atlantis ( and if the team finds something , that thing
will get destroyed quickly - like what happened to that nice cool ship ... ).

I find it quite frustrating that most of the knowledge of the ancients is deeply
hidden in that huge database.

So far, we haven't seen anything built from scratch using the ancient
technology: the team has only used things that the ancients have left
behind (jumpers, drones, those small detection palmtops).

The writers are actively keeping the team at a level of semi-ignorance
regarding the ancient technology : "We barely scratch the surface of what's in there" .
I wish they dropped this idea completely because it would unlock the possibility
for some very exciting episodes.

Thunderbird 2
May 22nd, 2007, 12:31 AM
I think I have mentioned this elsewhere, but this is the key problem with Atlantis thus far - the series feels it has been running on the spot. I suspect that the new developments they have been murmuring at (I am uncertain of this thread carries a spoiler warning so I will not say further than that) implies they are aware of this problem and are taking measures to fix it. - Exploration within Atlantis and what developments it could bring is a major one though. Ever since the stat of SG1's seventh season, the idea of what finding Atlantis could mean as far as technological and scientific advances is concerned was mind blowing. This again is reiterated at the end of the season and Atlantis's pilot rising. - However, this has not come to pass in the show thus far, and there is more that could be discovered beyond the obvious. (weapons and ships!) Time will tell!

HyperspaceDaemon
May 22nd, 2007, 01:13 AM
I think I have mentioned this elsewhere, but this is the key problem with Atlantis thus far - the series feels it has been running on the spot. I suspect that the new developments they have been murmuring at (I am uncertain of this thread carries a spoiler warning so I will not say further than that) implies they are aware of this problem and are taking measures to fix it. - Exploration within Atlantis and what developments it could bring is a major one though. Ever since the stat of SG1's seventh season, the idea of what finding Atlantis could mean as far as technological and scientific advances is concerned was mind blowing. This again is reiterated at the end of the season and Atlantis's pilot rising. - However, this has not come to pass in the show thus far, and there is more that could be discovered beyond the obvious. (weapons and ships!) Time will tell!

I agree: the purpose of the Atlantis mission is supposed to be studying
and learning as much as possible from the Ancients.

There are at least two episodes that are about exploring the city : The Tao of
Rodney and The Game. I enjoyed them a lot exactly because we've seen
some ancient devices. And was so logical and credible to see that some
members can get into trouble because of misusing those advanced consoles.

It would be really nice to see more episodes about exploring Atlantis.

Anyway, the ending of the third season could open up some unpredictable
and interesting developments. like bringing the city on a completely new planet. Or
maybe meeting some new advanced friends who helps the team with a new power source.

ashman2
May 22nd, 2007, 03:04 AM
I really like Atlantis, I do, but I'm getting annoyed with this philosophy of 'we can't become too much of a superpower' and all that that so many people hark on about regarding new ships. Even if we kept all the ships we've created, even if we got Atlantis with 3 zpms, and gave zpms to all of our ships, we wouldn't automatically start kicking the Wraith's arse. because as the ancients pointed out, fully powered their ships were brilliant one on one with the enemy, but when fleets arrive the ancient ships get rumbled. With zpms we still have the problem of not being able to build that many ships without people on earth asking the wrong questions. I think it's about time we saw something brilliant happen in Atlantis, like either a way to make drones, a way to make ZPMs, or a fully functioning, fully powered ancient warship. We don't necessarily need all, but I really don't see why we can't have one of them. But that's just me

rosey_angel
May 22nd, 2007, 04:07 AM
i agree it would be cool to see out ppl in charge of atlantis when it's fully functioning. but part of what it cool about the SG verse is that it's, for the most part, set in todays world. if they suddenly had the power to build ZPMs, then atlantis would building them and send them back to earth to power, well... the planet. something that obvious, unlimited power supply on earth, would change the show from "current" to "sci fi"

that being said, i would love to see more of atlantis. sciences, medicines, heck even bathroom areas. the game was cool, coz it showed maybe a way the ancients entertained themselves. they were kinda human afterall, and we use strategy games for entertainment.

maybe at the beginning of s4 we'll get to see more

ciannwn
May 22nd, 2007, 04:17 AM
The Atlantis expedition is full of scientists who rarely seem to do anything unless the story calls for a body count. Why isn't there a team of them dedicated to exploring the city? At the very least there'd be floor plans of most of the buildings after 3 years.

My personal opinion is that Atlantis is just there as a kind of plot device. (1) Every so often someone will find a strange Ancient machine which turns out to be useless to the expedition at the end of the story. (2) Luckily some unknown person discovered a cell ideal for keeping Wraith in and he/she did it before Steve was captured. (Or did I miss something in the first four episodes of Season 1?)

mizzoueng
May 22nd, 2007, 08:27 AM
I would like to see them find a ZPM room, just to stop the constant "we don't have power" episodes. THey are starting to get boring and repetitive.

Here's a suggestion if a writer is lurking. Give them the ZPM room, but make it damaged and they can only produce ZPMs with say 25% power. Just enough for them to use shields etc for a limited amount of time.

THis will keep the playing field level and fair.

Heck, even make it so they can only produce 1 ZPM every month. Just give them power so they can use city systems and not be complaining about the lack of power every 5 seconds.

ashman2
May 22nd, 2007, 11:46 AM
Or you could have it that you can only refill empty ones, so it's dependent on how many 'shells' you have, because we've only got a couple, and an extension of that could be that they can only be filled up a certain number of times, kind of like recharging AA batteries but on a slightly larger scale. Just an idea

mymonkey15
May 22nd, 2007, 03:37 PM
Creating ZPM will not be as simple as finding the lab, pluging in a lap top and pressing a few buttons!

For example, the sangrall in sg1 (a devise very similar to a zpm, it just channnels the energy into the dimention where the accended exist) is made buy using one of the "darn head suckers" as :jack: jack called it

i would sugest that most ancient tech was made in this way, cos they were all super smart and only had to think " ummmmmmm zpm" and there it would apear!

tho using the modified argard beam earth should now be able to produce drones with little effort!

ZPMs should remain unattainable for now! maybe they could find a head sucker thingy on atlantis and there is the the op for a brave sole to stick their head in it to save the day at the 11 hour

Mitchell82
May 23rd, 2007, 11:24 AM
I agree that we need to explore the city more but the expedition is not just about exploring Atlantis. It's about exploring the Pegasus galaxy as well not just Atlantis. Also if we find the lab or facility that the ancients used to make ZPMs we don't have the knowledge to make them. It wouldnt be a simple as flicking a switch. I agree we need more advancements in technology but one reason we don't get to keep it or we destroy it is b/c it is so far ahead of us.

Maltrancko
May 23rd, 2007, 03:45 PM
if they wanted to mess up the plot for that all they need to do is say, "Yes we found the ZPM manufacturing lab, but oh dang it we need some crazy ass mineral we've never seen before or heard of to make one and it just seems sooooo hard let's just go eat some pie!"

thats all it takes.... pie

Lillgreen
May 23rd, 2007, 07:44 PM
I think now with the inclusion of Carter in season 4 we will have an extra smart brain there to do some research and exploring of the city and its tech.
Perhaps with what happened at the end of SG-1 season 10 with what we obtained may be of help in our endeavors.

Mitchell82
May 23rd, 2007, 08:18 PM
I think now with the inclusion of Carter in season 4 we will have an extra smart brain there to do some research and exploring of the city and its tech.
Perhaps with what happened at the end of SG-1 season 10 with what we obtained may be of help in our endeavors.

We will see that. The tech we received in Unendung will play a part in season 4.

HyperspaceDaemon
May 28th, 2007, 12:52 PM
We will see that. The tech we received in Unendung will play a part in season 4.

Indeed: let's hope that we'll see that technology put into use.

And i really-really hope that they won't keep those new upgrades powered
down ( for avoiding being detected by the ori ships ) : it would be useless
to have them otherwise .

Mitchell82
May 28th, 2007, 08:02 PM
Indeed: let's hope that we'll see that technology put into use.

And i really-really hope that they won't keep those new upgrades powered
down ( for avoiding being detected by the ori ships ) : it would be useless
to have them otherwise .

Well the Ori ships arent intergalatic as far as I know they are only interstellar so that won't be a problem.

jenks
May 29th, 2007, 05:07 AM
The Ori ship are intergalactic, they followed the Odyssey to Ida and back.

Mitchell82
May 29th, 2007, 11:00 AM
The Ori ship are intergalactic, they followed the Odyssey to Ida and back.

That's right I forgot about that. So that could be a problem if the Ori arent eradicated in Ark of Truth.

ur uncle urgo
May 29th, 2007, 05:37 PM
Do you think the team will ever full chart the entire city room by room?

I mean, there literally has to be a lab or something where the Ancients made ZPMs, jumpers and drones. Where else would they get them if not there in the city?

Also, do you think McKay is smart enough to access the terminals that we saw the commander of the Ancient warship access just as soon as she returned to the city?

ZPM labs in atlantis are going to be like car keys they are always in the last place you look.

sorry for my really bad joke;)

Mitchell82
May 29th, 2007, 06:23 PM
ZPM labs in atlantis are going to be like car keys they are always in the last place you look.

sorry for my really bad joke;)

Bad joke, but I've done it quite a few times myself. As to the ZPM labs, very likely.

Lauriel
June 8th, 2007, 04:30 AM
1-800-PLOT-HOLE

Of course the Ancients made drones and such, we just take VERY long to find them. They have database for everything, a lot of episodes they say "we saw this in the database", or "we heard of these people in the database" but they can't look for a sign that says 'ZPM ROOM THIS WAY' in the database. Maybe TPTB will make an interesting way for us finding the rooms you mentioned in season 4.

When you make entries into Outlook or your diary or whatever, do you write "I did the dishes today in my kitchen which is the third door to the left"?

I like all the ideas for finding a ZPM room but not being able to use it, or having to solve further difficulties before it is of any use.

Redhooks
June 8th, 2007, 11:42 AM
When you make entries into Outlook or your diary or whatever, do you write "I did the dishes today in my kitchen which is the third door to the left"?

I like all the ideas for finding a ZPM room but not being able to use it, or having to solve further difficulties before it is of any use.

I like that thought of finding the lab, but not having a clue how to make one. Even better, think you maybe able to make one, BUT, you need a specific mineral/element, which, as no surprise, we have no idea where to find!!! It would lead to searching other planets for something else besides actual ZPMs. You know, JM could use this fill up his two minutes on TMC, but that would be too creative. ;)

ToasterOnFire
June 8th, 2007, 12:42 PM
There was a throwaway comment in Pegasus Project that they had mapped/explored a little over half the city so far. Kinda sad to see more tell and less show, especially since the city of Atlantis gave a unique quality to the show.

Redhooks
June 8th, 2007, 12:56 PM
There was a throwaway comment in Pegasus Project that they had mapped/explored a little over half the city so far. Kinda sad to see more tell and less show, especially since the city of Atlantis gave a unique quality to the show.

But to show would mean they would have to build or change existing sets for a 30 sec. mention which is too expensive. If you meant an episode based on just exploring more of Atlantis, I would like to see that too.

Mitchell82
June 8th, 2007, 04:17 PM
But to show would mean they would have to build or change existing sets for a 30 sec. mention which is too expensive. If you meant an episode based on just exploring more of Atlantis, I would like to see that too.

Yeah it would be very costly for a breif showing but a whole ep devoted to it IMO would be boring unless something happend kinda like hot zone.

ascendedancient42
June 10th, 2007, 01:09 AM
Creating ZPM will not be as simple as finding the lab, pluging in a lap top and pressing a few buttons!

For example, the sangrall in sg1 (a devise very similar to a zpm, it just channnels the energy into the dimention where the accended exist) is made buy using one of the "darn head suckers" as :jack: jack called it

i would sugest that most ancient tech was made in this way, cos they were all super smart and only had to think " ummmmmmm zpm" and there it would apear!

tho using the modified argard beam earth should now be able to produce drones with little effort!

ZPMs should remain unattainable for now! maybe they could find a head sucker thingy on atlantis and there is the the op for a brave sole to stick their head in it to save the day at the 11 hour

If making a ZPM requires use of a head sucker, then perhaps an Ancient could easily make one, but a lowly human would have to give up their life to make one...

Then we're down to this issue: do we start throwing away lives for ZPM's? Only in a dire emergency, right?

mmu_man
June 10th, 2007, 01:39 AM
There was a throwaway comment in Pegasus Project that they had mapped/explored a little over half the city so far. Kinda sad to see more tell and less show, especially since the city of Atlantis gave a unique quality to the show.

As with software writing, it's always the last 10% that takes 90% of the time anyway :)

Mitchell82
June 10th, 2007, 12:03 PM
If making a ZPM requires use of a head sucker, then perhaps an Ancient could easily make one, but a lowly human would have to give up their life to make one...

Then we're down to this issue: do we start throwing away lives for ZPM's? Only in a dire emergency, right?

Yeah only in emergency....MCKAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can we borrow you for a moment?;)

Lauriel
June 12th, 2007, 05:34 AM
As with software writing, it's always the last 10% that takes 90% of the time anyway :)

And then they have to install it - they make the ZPM, install it, only to discover that they need to reboot Atlantis, then the doors don't work, so they fix those and the plumbing mysteriously stops, and when they finally fix that, after much swearing and frustration, they discover that they don't have the right frelling driver, so they get a hold of that only to discover that it is incompatible with the Atlantis operating system.....

ascendedancient42
June 12th, 2007, 05:53 AM
And then they have to install it - they make the ZPM, install it, only to discover that they need to reboot Atlantis, then the doors don't work, so they fix those and the plumbing mysteriously stops, and when they finally fix that, after much swearing and frustration, they discover that they don't have the right frelling driver, so they get a hold of that only to discover that it is incompatible with the Atlantis operating system.....

I think you're confusing Atlantis with Windows... ;)

Atlantis is way better designed, IMO.