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garhkal
May 12th, 2007, 08:27 PM
With all the spoilers we are seeing for various eps, who here feels that the asurans might finally find the answer to their 'wanting to ascend'?

If they do, do you think the rest of the ascended beings would LET them?

Kidwizz
May 12th, 2007, 09:02 PM
^ i dont think they can... you need workign brain. like you need what ever it is ammount of brain usage. the asurans can't do that. they might be able to dupe the abilities. but thats all. and because its not a singal being its 100000000000000000000000000 (give or take a few 100000000000000000000000000) nanobots.

Raj_2006
May 13th, 2007, 02:28 AM
they can clone an anicent and transfer their subconicous (spelling) like the asgard, bada bing bada boom you have ascended. :D

Psyku
May 13th, 2007, 02:56 AM
if it where possible for them to ascend they kind of need daniel for that!

~Benjamin~
May 13th, 2007, 04:30 AM
With all the spoilers we are seeing for various eps, who here feels that the asurans might finally find the answer to their 'wanting to ascend'?

If they do, do you think the rest of the ascended beings would LET them?

i reckon if one was to ascend, all would ascend as they pass information - if that was to happen i bet it would be either when they are about to kill Atlantis or they finally became allies with Atlantis and they managed to overcome the anger intergrated into there base code.

--My two cents--

Steve_the_Wraith
May 13th, 2007, 05:14 AM
When it comes down to it cells are alot like machines, they have programing codes (DNA), burn fuel for energy (digesting sugars for their chemical energy) communicate with electrical impulses, and have complicated "machinery" able to produce everything it needs from raw materials (producing all the chemicals the body needs from raw materials).

So why can't Asuran's ascend?

Buba uognarf
May 13th, 2007, 05:27 AM
Ascending without help involves evolving to the point where the body can become pure energy i don't know if the Asurans could change in that way

Mitchell82
May 13th, 2007, 12:33 PM
Ascending without help involves evolving to the point where the body can become pure energy i don't know if the Asurans could change in that way

Well it has always been one of their primary goals and even though they are machines I think if they all devoted themselves to it they could garner enough energy to ascend as a group and if that happens........

SazZat
May 13th, 2007, 01:17 PM
well maybe the machine in ToR may have something to do with artificially assisting their bids to ascend.

Psyku
May 23rd, 2007, 06:04 AM
i stil think there is something spiritual needed to ascend and the asurans are machines like they said when first met the refined ancient tech! unless the asurans become more like flesh. so that they can create something spiritual within!

to help them ascend

Aerilon
May 23rd, 2007, 08:47 AM
I believe they could if they wanted too. They're currently driven by other motives, but if they sorted themselves out, then they would be able too I believe.

Think about what was said in the first episode, when Weir and co+ met them.

HyperspaceDaemon
May 23rd, 2007, 09:29 AM
I think that the Asurans are not ready to ascend. Not because of their artificial
bodies, but more likely because they'd need to have the correct spiritual level:
leave their anger and fears behind and reach a certain spiritual balance ...

Mitchell82
May 23rd, 2007, 11:40 AM
I think that the Asurans are not ready to ascend. Not because of their artificial
bodies, but more likely because they'd need to have the correct spiritual level:
leave their anger and fears behind and reach a certain spiritual balance ...

Agreed they have to find a way to rid themselves of their violent urges.

ciannwn
May 23rd, 2007, 01:54 PM
i stil think there is something spiritual needed to ascend and the asurans are machines like they said when first met the refined ancient tech! unless the asurans become more like flesh. so that they can create something spiritual within!

to help them ascend

How are you defining spiritual here? The Ori are ascended beings but they can hardly be described as spiritually evolved in the usual sense of the term.

The Tao of Rodney and Unending (SG1 episode) indicate that Ascension is a purely materialistic event - all the 'spirituality/meditation' stuff is simply a technique to alter the way the brain behaves. Neurotheology, while still a controversial line of research, is exploring the neurological basis of spiritual experiences and what meditation actually does. etc. In my opinion it ties in very well with the process of Ascension as it's been developed in the Stargate universe. If transforming one's body into energy required spirituality in the conventional meaning of the term, the Ori would never have done it. Conversely, the Asgard wouldn't have been barred from it just because they had irreparable genetic flaws.

The Asurans won't be able to ascend in exactly the same manner as organic life forms because they're machines. This doesn't mean that there can't be a way of transforming non organic bodies into energy, though. Also, why couldn't a sentient non-organic machine evolve spirituality? What's so special about biological machines?

jenks
May 23rd, 2007, 01:56 PM
How are you defining spiritual here? The Ori are ascended beings but they can hardly be described as spiritually evolved in the usual sense of the term.



Huh? what makes you say that? We know that they focused on religion while the Ancients were more into science, we also know they started off with good intentions when they first ascended.

Wraith_Boy
May 23rd, 2007, 02:02 PM
^ i dont think they can... you need workign brain. like you need what ever it is ammount of brain usage. the asurans can't do that. they might be able to dupe the abilities. but thats all. and because its not a singal being its 100000000000000000000000000 (give or take a few 100000000000000000000000000) nanobots.

Who says they don't already have one! A much more advanced & efficient brain compared to a human.

A brain is essentially millions of tiny little computers working together. It's made up of cells called 'Neurons', when turned on & working - they fire electrical impulses down wires (axon). All these billions of wires actually give out an electrical charge, which has been estimated to be the same as a 60w bulb. So I don't see why millions/billions of nanites can't come together & do a lot more than a human brain could ever do.

For instance Asgard can take their mind & interface it directly into a compuer such as seen with Thor a couple of times. He also took O'Neill's consciousness & integrated it into the Asgard computer aboard his ship in 'New Order'. Then extracted all the advanced knowledge & put him back to his old self. Therefore if a person's mind/consaciousness can be put in a computer & still function, does that really make the Asurans any different considering what theya re made from.

Lanteans are far more advanced, then the fact Asurans have been working freely for the past 10,000 years. Some obviously have been putting that time towards studying & understanding ascension.

All you need is to be advanced or physically evolved enough to use around 96% of your brain.

It was abbreviated on in 'Tao of Rodney'.

McKAY: "Look, when you get down to it, even mental states are actually only physical states, are they not? I mean, the brain is just a chemical super-computer."

McKAY: "Look, all the hocus pocus stuff is just a way of getting the brain into the proper electro-chemical state to allow the final physical evolution, at which point the matter that makes up this body will turn into pure energy. (Carson looks sceptical.) Look, what mere mortals would refer to as the ... (he wiggles his fingers mysteriously either side of his head) ... mystery of ascension is actually just a scientific process -- it’s just protons and electrons. Protons and electrons."

McKAY: "Now, based on what I’ve extrapolated from the Ancient research, I have been able to set measurable parameters for achieving the proper mental state. Once I reach ninety six percent synaptic connection, as measured by this device ... (he points to it as Carson switches the device on and lights come on on the headband) ... all I need to do is maintain an E.E.G. frequency of zero point one to zero point nine Hertz and presto. (He clicks his fingers, then gestures skywards.) I arise to a higher plane of existence."

While the Asurans said this in 'Progeny':

ASURAN FEMALE 1: We seek to continue our own evolution.

ASURAN FEMALE 2: To truly emulate the Ancients and their ultimate achievement.

TEYLA: Even though they betrayed you.

NIAM: They are our creators, and ascension is the final step to equalling them, to becoming one with them.

SHEPPARD: No offence, but ... how are a bunch of machines gonna do that?

ASURAN FEMALE 1: Are you so different?

SHEPPARD: Well, we’re living, breathing people.

ASURAN FEMALE 2: Constructed from cells, consuming and burning energy, governed by electrical impulses ...

If anything, they should be able to achieve it naturally than a Human or Lantean who had to use machines to artifically evolve themselves to an advanced enough state. Probably the only thing holding them back is their base code that is littered with evil & violence. If they get that cut out from their base-code, then I think they should be able to ascend.

The simple point is that the Asurans believe it's possible for them to ascend. They know their own physiology & makeup inside out. If they believe that it can actually be done, then it obviously is something that they could one day achieve. If only they can get all the violent nature erased from their base-code.

ciannwn
May 23rd, 2007, 02:11 PM
Huh? what makes you say that? We know that they focused on religion while the Ancients were more into science, we also know they started off with good intentions when they first ascended.

If the wikepedia article about the Ori is correct (I'm aware that wikepdia isn't always 100% reliable) -

1) The Ori and Alterans developed philosophical differences long before any of them ascended.
2) The Ori attempted to kill the Alterans before anyone ascended.
3) The Ori still wish to destroy their ascended rivals.
4) Ascended beings can be empowered by non ascended beings worshipping them. The Ori religion is a big con trick with the aim of drawing power from their followers.

Religion and spirituality don't always go hand in hand.

jenks
May 23rd, 2007, 03:24 PM
Hmmm, I'm not sure about number 2, none of that would contradict the idea of the Ori being spiritual anyway...

ciannwn
May 24th, 2007, 12:44 AM
Hmmm, I'm not sure about number 2, none of that would contradict the idea of the Ori being spiritual anyway...

What do you mean by spiritual, though? If one thinks of spirituality as working to free oneself from the concerns of the ego. etc. the Ori philosophy which led them to become control freaks draining energy from worshippers wasn't that kind of spirituality. If it's something like finding one's true place in the universe as a result of evolution then yes, you could say they were spiritual. It's still a kind of materialistic spirituality, though.

In Hide and Seek the expedition accidentally frees an energy entity which feeds on energy.(The Ori do a similar thing where their worshippers are concerned.) McKay suggests that the Ancients had been experimenting on it in order to develop a technological way to ascend. Although it shows some intelligence, the entity appears to be motivated by feeding because it doesn't make a quick exit onto another plane. This suggests that it wasn't a highly advanced intelligence (unless it had gone insane though being trapped for thousands of years) so energy entities could have evolved naturally alongside organic ones.

Although an organic entity's consciousness can take temporary lodging in someone else's brain (Laura Cadman) or be uploaded to a cloned body (the Asgard) there is no indication so far of anything which qualifies as a soul in the Stargate universe. When beings ascend they take their bodies with them in the form of energy rather than leaving them behind with their clothes.

Wraith_Boy's post quoted Rodney's views on the mechanics of ascension and I'm going to quote a quote here.

all I need to do is maintain an E.E.G. frequency of zero point one to zero point nine Hertz and presto. (He clicks his fingers, then gestures skywards.) I arise to a higher plane of existence.

As humans are organic creatures, strong emotions like fear and anger create a physical effect in the brain/body. If we're angry, scared or whatever it's difficult to relax enough to get to sleep let alone reduce our E.E.G. frequency to the one required for turning ourselves into pure energy.

The transcript of the BBC Horizon documentary God On The Brain is a good introduction to neurotheology. Near the end of the show we were told what happens in the brain of a meditating Buddhist. The meditation technique had a physical effect on the brain which involved the temporal lobes and a reduced blood flow to the parietal lobes which give us our sense of time and place. This documentary ties in very well with Rodney's views of what spiritual practice is all about in the Stargate universe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbraintrans.shtml

McKay again. "Look, all the hocus pocus stuff is just a way of getting the brain into the proper electro-chemical state to allow the final physical evolution, at which point the matter that makes up this body will turn into pure energy. (Carson looks sceptical.) Look, what mere mortals would refer to as the ... (he wiggles his fingers mysteriously either side of his head) ... mystery of ascension is actually just a scientific process -- it’s just protons and electrons. Protons and electrons."

Aren't the Asurans protons and electrons too on a fundamental level? What is their chance of ascending?


Probably the only thing holding them back is their base code that is littered with evil & violence. If they get that cut out from their base-code, then I think they should be able to ascend.

Maybe their real problem is that they've become obsessed with the idea of emulating their creators so they're trying to use a method developed for organic creatures. The Ori have shown that ascended beings can be littered with "evil and violence" so having this kind of thing in their base code isn't necessarily what's holding the Asurans back from ascension. A different method might well result in a way of turning the kind of matter they're constructed from into energy.

Wraith_Boy
May 24th, 2007, 03:30 AM
That is true, but I can think of 1 solid instance of difference between the Ori & the Asurans.

1. Orlin said in 'The 4th Horseman' that the Ori started off with the best of intentions. So when they ascended initially, they may not have been 'evil' as what they would be regarded today.

Not to mention: Lanteans tried to wipe out the Asurans before ascending or fleeing Atlantis. We know ancients do interfere when it suits them, such as how they blocked the Ori from getting any info regarding the existence the MW galaxy. So it may be that the ascended Lanteans, could be blocking them from reaching that evolutionary point because of the violence that exists inside them.

The way they said in 'Progeny':

NIAM: "The aggression programmed into our core remained, fuelling a rage we could not contain. We implored them to have this violent nature removed from our programming, but the Ancients wanted a weapon, and since their scientists included a directive prohibiting us from ever harming them, they continued the experiment."

NIAM: "We realise this, and we have done much to repress our violent nature, but yet it still remains within us. We believe this, above all, is what has prevented us from ascending.

SHEPPARD: What are you looking for, therapy?

NIAM: We want to rewrite our base code to remove the directives for aggression."

They obviously seem to think they can ascend & it's the violence inside them that's potentially holding them back from reaching such a goal.

Although given JM's hint that one of the main bad guys may be gone come the end of S4. Then we may get to see the Asurans ascending if it's indeeed them that's been placed on the writers hit list!

ciannwn
May 24th, 2007, 05:07 AM
That is true, but I can think of 1 solid instance of difference between the Ori & the Asurans.

1. Orlin said in 'The 4th Horseman' that the Ori started off with the best of intentions. So when they ascended initially, they may not have been 'evil' as what they would be regarded today.

There's a well known saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." (See the following interpretation from Answers Com) -

http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-english-proverbs

Maybe it all depends on what motivates the 'good intentions'. "I'm doing this because I know what's best for you," doesn't automatically mean that I really do know what's best for you. It could be a case of "This is best for you because I say it is, so there!"

What exactly is consciousness in the Stargate universe?

1: The Asgard could upload themselves into cloned bodies. This is related to the Transhumanist dream of uploading one's consciousness into a computer. The drawback with the Transhumanist version is that what ends up in the computer is a copy of the original, not the original itself. The original me remains in my brain and ceases to exist when my brain stops functioning. Is the Asgard uploaded consciousness a copy too or is consciousness some mysterious thing which can be transferred from one body to another?

2: Laura Cadman's consciousness ended up sharing Rodney's body. Consciousness can't just be a product of the brain, then, because Rodney's brain would be constructed to produce Rodney not Laura as well. (There was nothing in the story to indicate that Rodney's brain had been changed to the extent where it could produce both Rodney and Laura.) The plot revolved around Laura in Rodney's body fading away which suggests that she wasn't a copy. After all, if the original 'Laura information' was still stored in the dart data bank they'd have got the original Laura back eventually.

3: In the Stargate universe, then, consciousness appears to be information which can be transferred from one physical medium to another as opposed to just copied. It still isn't the same as a soul, though, otherwise Laura wouldn't have been in danger of fading away to nothing. Ascension requires turning one's physical body into energy which suggests that this energy falls under the heading of 'physics' rather than 'metaphysics'. If consciousness was 'metaphysical', people would just leave their bodies at death and wander around on other planes without needing to go through a lot of bother.(Apart from the bother of dying, that is.) Ridding oneself of anger, hatred, etc. is just a technique for attaining a certain E.E.G. frequency. Once a body has become energy it isn't necessary to be free of negative emotions in order to remain in that state. If it were the Ori would have found themselves back on the physical plane in physical bodies.

4: If it's nothing more than physics there's no reason why the Asurans couldn't develop some kind of machine which just turns a physical object into energy which remains as energy.

There still remains the question of what is this mysterious 'life force' which the Wraith feed on. Maybe it's a primitive form of the energy which bodies are turned into at Ascension and is nothing more 'metaphysical' than electricity. It's just a power source to keep organic human machines running. If a Wraith could catch an ascended being he/she might have a really satisfying lunch because it would be a super refined form of human energy. :)

PS: The same 'life energy' could power animal bodies too. The Wraith can't use it though because their feeding methods take some DNA from the item on the menu. It would be very awkward in evolutionary terms if they acquired DNA from cows, sheep, pigs and chickens etc. because who knows what they'd end up as after a few generations. :)

Mitchell82
May 28th, 2007, 09:26 AM
Wow great post.;)

kymeric
June 1st, 2007, 10:20 AM
well if unending spoilers The asgard cant do it what chance do abunch of transformers have of physically doing it

ciannwn
June 1st, 2007, 11:09 AM
well if unending spoilers The asgard cant do it what chance do abunch of transformers have of physically doing it

How is a physical body turned into pure energy? What elements of the Asgard physical degeneration stopped them from ascending even though they were able to use transporters? The Ancients developed one method of ascending but is this the only one possible? Until these questions have been answered we can't say for certain that the Asurans will never find a way of doing it.

rarocks24
June 1st, 2007, 11:27 AM
well if unending spoilers The asgard cant do it what chance do abunch of transformers have of physically doing it
I'm surprised, doesn't Daniel Jackson know how to ascend (didn't Oma show him in case he changed his mind?)? He could have gone Oma and ascended the entire Asgard race.

PG15
June 1st, 2007, 01:14 PM
No, both times Oma would've helped.

Lost Charmed One
June 3rd, 2007, 04:06 AM
People, the point here is that it takes a certain amount or level of spiritual enlightenment and physical evolution in order to naturally ascend. The Asurans simply cannot fathom the idea or pupose of mediating or "the releasing of one's burden" in order to ascend. They may be very intelligent, and possibly possess varies abilities, but I cannot see them contemplating over what their existence as a race, or even individually, means. Futhermore, I truly don't see them contemplating over their own enlighthenment... machines, not matter how advanced and intelligent, just don't do that.

jenks
June 3rd, 2007, 04:17 AM
People, the point here is that it takes a certain amount or level of spiritual enlightenment and physical evolution in order to naturally ascend. The Asurans simply cannot fathom the idea or pupose of mediating or "the releasing of one's burden" in order to ascend. They may be very intelligent, and possibly possess varies abilities, but I cannot see them contemplating over what their existence as a race, or even individually, means. Futhermore, I truly don't see them contemplating over their own enlighthenment... machines, not matter how advanced and intelligent, just don't do that.

I disagree, from what we've seen, I think all evidence points to the fact that ascension is a purely physical process. As long as you are physically capable and know how to do it, you can ascend.

ciannwn
June 3rd, 2007, 05:12 PM
People, the point here is that it takes a certain amount or level of spiritual enlightenment and physical evolution in order to naturally ascend.

So what exactly is spiritual enlightenment in relation to ascension? Can the Ori be classed as spiritually enlightened with their philosophy? If not, how did they manage to ascend?

Adria managed to ascend in order to escape dying but there was no indication that she'd become spiritually enlightened at the last minute.


I disagree, from what we've seen, I think all evidence points to the fact that ascension is a purely physical process. As long as you are physically capable and know how to do it, you can ascend.

Two McKay quotes from The Tao Of Rodney.

"Look, all the hocus pocus stuff is just a way of getting the brain into the proper electro-chemical state to allow the final physical evolution, at which point the matter that makes up this body will turn into pure energy."

"all I need to do is maintain an E.E.G. frequency of zero point one to zero point nine Hertz and presto. (He clicks his fingers, then gestures skywards.) I arise to a higher plane of existence."

The Ancients invented a machine to manipulate DNA so an individual's body rapidly evolves to the point where it can be turned into energy. All that's needed after that is the 'mental component' which enables the ascender (who now has super powers) to maintain an E.E.G. frequency of zero point one to zero point nine Hertz. I find it hard to believe that it's impossible for any Stargate universe scientist to invent another machine which would trigger a brain into producing a particular E.E.G. frequency.

Alchemist
June 3rd, 2007, 11:59 PM
I disagree, from what we've seen, I think all evidence points to the fact that ascension is a purely physical process. As long as you are physically capable and know how to do it, you can ascend.

Yeah, but the thing is, the Ausrans don't know that there is anything else involved than spirituality. They don't believe that they can ascend, so they can't ascend.

IMHO, all it will take is for Rodney to brag (and we know he will :D) to one of them that it is a purely physical problem or for them to probe his mind again and see the events of ToR and they would be able to replicate the physical condition required for physical ascension.

ciannwn
June 4th, 2007, 01:13 AM
IMHO, all it will take is for Rodney to brag (and we know he will :D) to one of them that it is a purely physical problem or for them to probe his mind again and see the events of ToR and they would be able to replicate the physical condition required for physical ascension.

This is a very good point. The Asurans are trying to use a method developed by a race of carbon based organic life forms. Like many other beings on the physical plane the Asurans are dazzled by the magic words "Spiritual, enlightenment, meditation,". If they found out what's really involved they could start developing a method suitable for their kind of life form.

Other carbon based races could develop DNA acceleration and brain chemistry altering machines in order to ascend. The real mystery is why the Ancients used the mystic hocus pocus stuff for the last stage when they could have found another way of changing their E.E.G. frequencies. Maybe it was just a case of "We don't want everyone up on the higher planes. Let's use that meditation technique and disguise it's true nature with a lot of hocus pocus. With luck it will throw others off the scent and keep the riff-raff out."

Lost Charmed One
June 4th, 2007, 02:23 AM
In my opinion, the way I look at it, spiritual enlightenment doesn't necessarily have to mean to reach a higher point of benevolence, it can also mean understanding how one's personal being (soul, spirit, life force), call it whatever you want, plays into existence. It is discovering one's self on a whole new level, one that cannot be fully express by existing on the lower planes. Like Daniel said to the replicator Sam, it is not just having the knowledge, it is also understanding it on a level which she will never reach.

Let's also keep in mind that the Asurans, being replicators, cannot operate or function solely on their own. For example, we know that Mckay found or wrote a program that basically froze all the Asurans in place when the team was trying to escape. And even though Niam helped the expediation team out in escaping from the other Asurans, he was evenutally reprogrammed in order to kill the humans. And though the Ori strive to have great sway over the free will of humans, even they cannot reprogram us to do their bidding. Yes the Ori can brain wash humans with their religious propaganda, but ultimately, they cannot take away our free will. If they had to ability to do so, wouldn't you think they would have done it a long time ago to make the process of empowering theirselves easier? Moreover, the actions of Asurans are governed by programs and codes, making them incapable of individually seeking out a better life for their self. In other words, if a human wishes to seek enlightenment and follow the path to ascension by leaving a society that's bent on the anhilation of another race, they mentally, and quit possibly physcially, can decide to do it. However, if an Asuran tried the same thing, as we have seen with Niam, the others of their kind can rewrite their programming, thereby taking away the little "free will" they had.

In the end, ascension truly is a personal and spiritual journey in the awakening and evolution of one's own existence. Asurans do not function as individual and personal beings, they do whatever their programming tells them.


So what exactly is spiritual enlightenment in relation to ascension? Can the Ori be classed as spiritually enlightened with their philosophy? If not, how did they manage to ascend?

Adria managed to ascend in order to escape dying but there was no indication that she'd become spiritually enlightened at the last minute.



Two McKay quotes from The Tao Of Rodney.

"Look, all the hocus pocus stuff is just a way of getting the brain into the proper electro-chemical state to allow the final physical evolution, at which point the matter that makes up this body will turn into pure energy."

"all I need to do is maintain an E.E.G. frequency of zero point one to zero point nine Hertz and presto. (He clicks his fingers, then gestures skywards.) I arise to a higher plane of existence."

The Ancients invented a machine to manipulate DNA so an individual's body rapidly evolves to the point where it can be turned into energy. All that's needed after that is the 'mental component' which enables the ascender (who now has super powers) to maintain an E.E.G. frequency of zero point one to zero point nine Hertz. I find it hard to believe that it's impossible for any Stargate universe scientist to invent another machine which would trigger a brain into producing a particular E.E.G. frequency.

Mister Oragahn
June 5th, 2007, 03:31 PM
Asgards can't ascend because they're genetically impure, but the robots can when they're nice.
Sure.

Ascension is overrated, not to say degraded seeing how it's been lousily used these last years.

ciannwn
June 5th, 2007, 03:45 PM
Asgards can't ascend because they're genetically impure, but the robots can when they're nice.
Sure.

The robots don't have to be nice. The Ori aren't nice and they're ascended. Anubis wasn't nice either but he tricked Oma into ascending him.

jenks
June 5th, 2007, 03:51 PM
Asgards can't ascend because they're genetically impure, but the robots can when they're nice.
Sure.

Ascension is overrated, not to say degraded seeing how it's been lousily used these last years.

Being nice has nothing to do with it, it's about being physically capable and knowing how to do it, nothing more.

Mitchell82
June 5th, 2007, 08:50 PM
Being nice has nothing to do with it, it's about being physically capable and knowing how to do it, nothing more.

Agreed. All you have to be is physically advanced and mentally and you could do it. If Jeffery Dahlmer was mentally advanced he could ascend.

ciannwn
June 6th, 2007, 04:19 AM
There's another way of looking at these questions.


With all the spoilers we are seeing for various eps, who here feels that the asurans might finally find the answer to their 'wanting to ascend'?

If they find a way to ascend in a future story it will certainly be possible for Replicator type beings to do this because a scriptwriter says so.


If they do, do you think the rest of the ascended beings would LET them?

If they ascend the rest of the ascended beings will do whatever is in the script. (All supposing we got a story about what the other ascending beings thought about the situation.)

It's fun discussing this kind of question but we have to remember that we're basing our views and opinions on what we've seen so far. If the Asurans do ascend in a future story we'll be discussing whether or not any given explanation was lame or convincing.