Discussion of difference between Ancient and Human biology

[tauriprivatesoldier]

I believe that although Ancients and the Tauri look very similar in appearence, the ancients' biology is far more complex. They may not have the same kind or same set of organs as us or even in the same places.

Thus, I am composing a ''picture'' of the the ancients' anatomy to underscore the true differences between us and them, since they are over 50 million years old and the Tauri are, at the very least, 200, 000 tears old.

This is a preliminary draft and everybody is welcomed to make contributions, so long there is an explanation behind it.

1) Human brain has average volume of 1.5 litres. The ancients had around 2 lites

2) Human brain has 100 billion neurons and and 100 trillion synapses. The ancients has three times that of humans

3) Their blood vessels contain special organisms capable of fast healing of injuries and protection against infections. They may not need a spleen or kidney.

4) Their bones are sheathed in a special material very much lightweight, but incredibly strong, protecting the bones, allowing the muscles to regenerate after injury

[titan_hq]

...4) Their bones are sheathed in a special material very much lightweight, but incredibly strong, protecting the bones, allowing the muscles to regenerate after injury

Is that a synthetic material added by the ancients themselfs, (We know they wern't above messing about with genetics.) or a natural product of millions of years of evolution.

[ACharmedAsgard]

Where did this knowledge of Ancient Biology come from?

[Jarnin]

I believe that although Ancients and the Tauri look very similar in appearence, the ancients' biology is far more complex.

How did you come to this conclusion?

They may not have the same kind or same set of organs as us or even in the same places.

Again, without some observation to warrant such ideas, why do you think this way?

In the episode Frozen back in season 6, Dr. Fraiser had an ancient woman to observe for several days. Contrary to what you believe, there was no mention of any physiological differences between humans and Ayiana.

If their brains were larger, or organs differed from human organs, they would have said something to make that distinction.

Thus, I am composing a ''picture'' of the the ancients' anatomy to underscore the true differences between us and them, since they are over 50 million years old and the Tauri are, at the very least, 200, 000 tears old.

You don't need to compose a picture; humans and mortal ancients are the same physiologically, until there is some reason to believe otherwise.

Personally, I think it would make sense if the ancients were more physiologically advanced for the exact reason you pointed out; the ancients have been around for 50+ million years, while humans on Earth have only been around in our current forms for the past 200 K or so.
If humans have evolved so much in the last 50 million years, the ancients should have evolved or at least speciated more than they have, unless they're willingly trying to conserve their human physiology.

Look, I like that you're trying to make the ancients what they should be, but there isn't any evidence to back it up. As they're shown in both series, ancients are/were humans. They have/had very advanced technology and a knowledge base that spans millions of years, but that's really the only difference (as shown) between ancients and humans.

[freyr's mother]

It came from the creative part of their brains.

[deadman]

They have to be different, I think their brains are simply more active, around the 60% range, wich would give them super Asgard intelligence, based off what I saw in the Tao of Rodney.

[Wraith_Boy]

In the episode Frozen back in season 6, Dr. Fraiser had an ancient woman to observe for several days. Contrary to what you believe, there was no mention of any physiological differences between humans and Ayiana.

At the beginning of the ep, all they did was an ultrasound. Even then they were still guessing if it was a she before they started to thaw her out. After that she started to revive, then everyone started to get sick. So I think they had more important things to do than worry about how different her physiology was compared to the humans like saving their friends lives & all.

If their brains were larger, or organs differed from human organs, they would have said something to make that distinction.

Again, more important things to worry about. However JF said this in the ep: Despite the physical similarities, Ayiana's brain chemistry seems to be quite different from ours. So obviously differences exist in that area.

You don't need to compose a picture; humans and mortal ancients are the same physiologically, until there is some reason to believe otherwise.

Personally, I think it would make sense if the ancients were more physiologically advanced for the exact reason you pointed out; the ancients have been around for 50+ million years, while humans on Earth have only been around in our current forms for the past 200 K or so.
If humans have evolved so much in the last 50 million years, the ancients should have evolved or at least speciated more than they have, unless they're willingly trying to conserve their human physiology.

Look, I like that you're trying to make the ancients what they should be, but there isn't any evidence to back it up. As they're shown in both series, ancients are/were humans. They have/had very advanced technology and a knowledge base that spans millions of years, but that's really the only difference (as shown) between ancients and humans.

Other than the fact that the plague that wiped out all life in the galaxy, which is why they used Dakara a little over a million years ago to start recreating life again. So all those millions of years of evolution were lost thanks to the plague!

Ancients can heal people by touch alone, they have the ATA gene that most humans don't. They have different brain chemistry. Telekinesis abilities among the many differences.

From 'The 5th Race': ASGARD: Human physiology has not advanced to the point where your brain could handle that technology.

From 'Tao of Rodney':

BECKETT: We have no idea of the extent of your genetic mutation.

+

WEIR: Well, we know the Ancients evolved physiologically to a certain point where they could transform into a state of pure energy.

SHEPPARD: Ancient History 101.

+

WEIR: Unfortunately there’s a whole lot more to ascension than just being physically evolved.

+

McKAY (reading his mind): ... has accelerated my evolution. (He looks at Elizabeth, reading her mind.) Eventually I’ll reach a point where I’m physically capable of ascension, but ascension takes more than that -- there’s a ... there’s a mental component.

+

McKAY: Yeah, it just came to me. I was, I was, I was floating in this, this big black emptiness and then the answer just came out of nowhere. Look, the device was designed to manipulate your D.N.A. It couldn’t reverse the evolutionary advancement process because everyone’s D.N.A. was different. It makes certain changes that causes the D.N.A. to evolve in ways specific to your own unique physiology.

Obviously there are a few differences between them & regular humans. They are still essentially human though & probably have almost everything we have, just more advanced versions probably because they had all that time to evolve.

[tauriprivatesoldier]

I'm just speculating on what the anicents' anatomy might have been like, since the series has not really given us much information.

Everybody is free to use this discussion as an exercise for creative thinkings, get our brains working.

[Jarnin]

At the beginning of the ep, all they did was an ultrasound. Even then they were still guessing if it was a she before they started to thaw her out. After that she started to revive, then everyone started to get sick. So I think they had more important things to do than worry about how different her physiology was compared to the humans like saving their friends lives & all.

They had a blood sample. An ultrasound and a blood sample confirmed Ayiana as human, as Fraiser remarked in that episode. They explained all that in the "we evolved to look like them" scene.

However JF said this in the ep: Despite the physical similarities, Ayiana's brain chemistry seems to be quite different from ours. So obviously differences exist in that area.

Yeah, her brain activity was the same as Cassie's after being in Nirti's device and O'Neill's after downloading the ancient repository. They're both human.

Other than the fact that the plague that wiped out all life in the galaxy, which is why they used Dakara a little over a million years ago to start recreating life again.

Don't be ignorant. There is no way possible that "all life" in the galaxy was wiped out and recreated from scratch in a million years. This series is supposed to conform to scientific discoveries in the real world, and the fossil record shows nothing like that happening.

So all those millions of years of evolution were lost thanks to the plague!

And it sounds more convincing because you put an exclamation mark at the end!

Ancients can heal people by touch alone...

No they can't. Only people on the path to ascension can heal others like that. Did you miss the Atlantis episode Epiphany that explained this?

...they have the ATA gene that most humans don't.

1 Human out of every 12,000 has the ATA gene. That might sound rare, but it means there are 250,000 people on Earth with the ATA gene.

They have different brain chemistry.

Only those on the path to ascension, as explained in Epiphany.

Telekinesis abilities among the many differences.

Again, only those on the path to ascension.

From 'The 5th Race': ASGARD: Human physiology has not advanced to the point where your brain could handle that technology.

And yet Daniel had no problem using that technology in The Quest Pt. II, minus a headache.

From 'Tao of Rodney':

BECKETT: We have no idea of the extent of your genetic mutation.

Which means Beckett's instruments weren't able to discern how he was mutated by the device.

WEIR: Well, we know the Ancients evolved physiologically to a certain point where they could transform into a state of pure energy.

I'd like to punch the writer who so badly misused the word "evolved". Ascension isn't evolution, it's metamorphosis.

This is vocabulary 101.

SHEPPARD: Ancient History 101.

And yet Daniel says in Full Circle that the plague wiped most of the ancients out, but some learned to ascend.
Rodney also states that that same "ascension machine" was built because most of the ancients couldn't ascend on their own and needed a "kick in the pants" in order to do so.

WEIR: Unfortunately there’s a whole lot more to ascension than just being physically evolved.

We've seen a whole village of humans who taught themselves how to ascend. Apparently there's a lot of meditation involved.

McKAY (reading his mind): ... has accelerated my evolution. (He looks at Elizabeth, reading her mind.) Eventually I’ll reach a point where I’m physically capable of ascension, but ascension takes more than that -- there’s a ... there’s a mental component.

I wish the writers would learn the difference between the words 'evolution' and 'metamorphosis'...

McKAY: Yeah, it just came to me. I was, I was, I was floating in this, this big black emptiness and then the answer just came out of nowhere. Look, the device was designed to manipulate your D.N.A. It couldn’t reverse the evolutionary advancement process because everyone’s D.N.A. was different. It makes certain changes that causes the D.N.A. to evolve in ways specific to your own unique physiology.

I'm surprised you didn't notice this, but this a plot hole. Nirti's device did the same thing this device did, the only difference is that the ascension machine was preprogrammed to make specific changes in a subject, where Nirti's changes were more trial and error.

The people whose DNA was changed in Nirti's machine had no problems reversing the changes to their DNA, but suddenly, because it's part of the plot, now these changes are irreversible.

Obviously there are a few differences between them & regular humans.

Not really, no.

They are still essentially human though & probably have almost everything we have, just more advanced versions probably because they had all that time to evolve.

Emboldened for clarity; you agree with my original statement that ancients and humans are identical from a physiological standpoint.

I have no idea how you would define "advanced version", since they haven't made any distinction for the regular ancients; only those who are on the path to ascension. They're the ones with superpowers and wacky brain chemistry.

[ascendedancient42]

All of the traits that we see in the Ancients that are different from us seem to stem entirely from their more active brain.

All the special abilities they've demonstrated can be explained as psychic phenomena.

[ACharmedAsgard]

All of the traits that we see in the Ancients that are different from us seem to stem entirely from their more active brain.

All the special abilities they've demonstrated can be explained as psychic phenomena.

Indeed.

The Ancients were human. But over time their mental capasity increased so they became much more intelligent.

Some Anicents' brains had evolved/advanced to a point where they could then ascend. Once they followed this path, they then started gaining the abilities - not before.

Think of us as Homo Sapian Sapians and them as Homo superior. We are only called homo sapian sapians because we are more intelligent then the humans before us so the Ancients are basically the next stage of humanity where intelligence and overall brain usage is concerned

[ancientaction]

they are biologicly the same, just they utilize far more of there brain, without stress.

[Jarnin]

All of the traits that we see in the Ancients that are different from us seem to stem entirely from their more active brain.

Which only occurs when they're on the path to ascension.

All the special abilities they've demonstrated can be explained as psychic phenomena.

And yet has never been described as such in either show. Seriously, metaphysics is pseudoscience, not science. The day the writers introduced Oma Desala they jumped the shark when it came to writing a 'hard' science fiction series. Now it's about as 'soft' a science fiction as you can get without calling it space fantasy.

Indeed.

The Ancients were human. But over time their mental capasity increased so they became much more intelligent.

Compared to what? Modern humans on Earth? There isn't a scale for intelligence that works for everybody, only relative measuring sticks like I.Q. tests. FYI an I.Q. score of 100 is average for humans, but that is an average of all humans. Some humans have I.Q.s of 180+ some have I.Q.s of below 80. The ancients, being human, were no different.

Some Anicents' brains had evolved/advanced to a point where they could then ascend.

Ascension is not evolution. Ascension is metamorphosis. Once you understand that, you'll realize that any living creature, no matter how intelligent, has the capability to ascend as the show portrays it.

Once they followed this path, they then started gaining the abilities - not before.

Agreed.

Think of us as Homo Sapian Sapians and them as Homo superior.

No, think of all of us as Homo sapien sapien and ancients as Homo sapien antiquus.

Homo means 'man' or more correctly, human.
Sapien means 'wise'.

We're called Homo sapien sapien because we're one of several subspecies of Homo sapien.

We are only called homo sapian sapians because we are more intelligent then the humans before us so the Ancients are basically the next stage of humanity where intelligence and overall brain usage is concerned

The meme that humans only utilize 10% of their brain has been proven false several times, and yet people still haven't figured out that it's complete garbage because they're too lazy or ignorant to learn about such things.

We have 50 million plus people on Earth that utilize more than 10% of their brain. They're called epileptics.

[therealdb]

in S1 of atlantis, they went to a planet and there was a very nice ( ) ancient that had been punished to protect those people. she went to atlantis and becket scanned here, she was completey "human" apart form the lack of any kind of disease

[titan_hq]

in S1 of atlantis, they went to a planet and there was a very nice ( ) ancient that had been punished to protect those people. she went to atlantis and becket scanned here, she was completey "human" apart form the lack of any kind of disease

Yeah, she had none of the normal human proteins that cause deseise( or something like that) but she did make that big energy/electric thingy that destroyed the wraith ships. Thats not human. She might of just hidden her non-human attributes from the scanner? just a thought