PDA

View Full Version : Greatest Hero



Ripple in Space
April 13th, 2007, 09:13 PM
Who is the GREATEST Hero?
No one too obscure please.

In order to be considered here, the hero must either have super human abilities (some ability that no contemporary human could have under any circumstances), or wear a silly costume into battle.

Here are a few candidates that come to mind.

Teal'c - He liberated the Jaffa, in doing so saved millions of humans & Jaffa, overthrew a millenia old evil empire, and hundreds of worlds. He's also one of the toughest guys around.

Goku - Well he is the strongest Superhero ever. He can blow up planets, and solar systems with little effort.

Batman - He's Batman. The World's Greatest Detective. With only human strength, and intelligence, he's honed his abilities to the point of rivaling the greatest of super beings.

Angel - The World's Champion. He took down the group that makes the world a crappy place. He fights the good fight because it's the right thing to do. He gave up 2 opportunities to obtain his redemption in order to help the helpless.

Superman - Everyone knows....

fugiman
April 14th, 2007, 10:49 PM
Captain America with out a doubt because he stood for everything right with America and tried to fix the problems of it. Also he fought the Nazis and who can be better then a guy that stopped the Nazis?

http://www.bikemenu.com/photos/artX/captainamericacomic/Captain%20America002.jpg

Oh and I think Sentry could beat Goku in a fight because Sentry has the powers of a 1000 suns

Elles
April 15th, 2007, 05:44 PM
President John J. Sheridan- Only man to destroy a Minbari ship in the Earth/Minbari war, commander of Babylon 5 for three years, formed a giant fleet to fight the Shadows, delcared independence from Earth, only man to come back from Z'Ha'Dum alive without being brain washed, defeated the shadows, started a civil war with Earth, was captured and tortured by Clark and survived, liberated Earth, first president of the interstellar alliance, kept Babylon 5 intact until the day he died.

Ripple in Space
April 16th, 2007, 10:50 AM
Oh and I think Sentry could beat Goku in a fight because Sentry has the powers of a 1000 suns

I had never heard of him before, so I read up on him. He sounds uber-strong, and is apparently by far the most powerful Marvel-Earth Super Hero, making Hulk look like a wimp. It sound like he's even stronger than Thor (Marvel). I think he'd probably take down Superman, since Superman has roughly the power of the Sun, and Sentry claims to have the "power of one million exploding suns."

I'd still go with Goku in a fight. Remember, unlike humans, Saiyans become stronger throughout a fight, where humans get fatigued & tired. Sentry fights measly Earth Villains/heroes, where Goku's last stint was fighting Eternal Dragons, who have basically limitless power, and can bend reality to their whims very easily. Goku doesn't have psychological problems, and is a pure force of good.

Worst case scenario, Goku could transport Sentry to an empty Solar System (using instant transmission), and then blow it up. Even if the explosion doesn't kill him (which it would) the lack of oxygen & space exposure would eventually do him in.

Exiled Master
April 17th, 2007, 02:13 PM
Spiderman
More realistic than pretty much any DC character. He isn't limitless in any quality (Batman is infinitely rich, Superman is infinitely strong, etc)
And the Celestials could totally kick Goku's @$$.

fugiman
April 17th, 2007, 08:49 PM
I had never heard of him before, so I read up on him. He sounds uber-strong, and is apparently by far the most powerful Marvel-Earth Super Hero, making Hulk look like a wimp. It sound like he's even stronger than Thor (Marvel). I think he'd probably take down Superman, since Superman has roughly the power of the Sun, and Sentry claims to have the "power of one million exploding suns."

I'd still go with Goku in a fight. Remember, unlike humans, Saiyans become stronger throughout a fight, where humans get fatigued & tired. Sentry fights measly Earth Villains/heroes, where Goku's last stint was fighting Eternal Dragons, who have basically limitless power, and can bend reality to their whims very easily. Goku doesn't have psychological problems, and is a pure force of good.

Worst case scenario, Goku could transport Sentry to an empty Solar System (using instant transmission), and then blow it up. Even if the explosion doesn't kill him (which it would) the lack of oxygen & space exposure would eventually do him in.

The Sentry is one of the most powerful if not they most powerful hero in the Marvel Universe and Nick Fury has found no weakness for the Sentry so no matter how much punishment Goku puts out the Sentry would be able to withstand it


Well Sentry does not need oxygen because in a comic I have he is on the moon and just mediating so I'm sure that wouldn't kill him.

fugiman
April 17th, 2007, 08:50 PM
And the Celestials could totally kick Goku's @$$.

Agreed but I think galactus could beat a Celestial one on one

Eye Of Ra
April 18th, 2007, 11:44 AM
Got to go with Angel And Spike, Buffy and Faith :)

Essex
April 18th, 2007, 12:29 PM
Ralph Hinkley :D:D:D Got given a super suit, lost the instructions and couldn't fly straight, but he still got the job done

Ripple in Space
April 18th, 2007, 01:02 PM
Got to go with Angel And Spike, Buffy and Faith :)

nice

kharn the betrayer
April 18th, 2007, 04:28 PM
I'd still go with Goku in a fight. Remember, unlike humans, Saiyans become stronger throughout a fight, where humans get fatigued & tired. Sentry fights measly Earth Villains/heroes, where Goku's last stint was fighting Eternal Dragons, who have basically limitless power, and can bend reality to their whims very easily. Goku doesn't have psychological problems, and is a pure force of good.

except Canonicly Goku never fights the Eternal Dragons as GT isnt Canon... (and GT is rather plothole ridden and down right horrible)


its like using the Buffy Season 8 Novel(no not the comic) or most Buffy comics(AKA the ones not written by Joss and gang) in a Buffy debate

as for goku being the strongest hero ever... have you ever seen the Hades Arc of Saint Seiya?

Saint Seiya characters put DBZ characters to shame in terms of sheer power and ability


and Pre Crisis Superman can trash him as well (yes there is a differance between pre crisis Superman and the current one)

not only that Goku isnt the strongest hero in his universe either... (Mystic Gohan and Vegeto are)

the fifth man
April 18th, 2007, 06:29 PM
I'd have to go with Superman.

fugiman
April 19th, 2007, 02:01 PM
Pre Crisis Superman can trash him as well (yes there is a differance between pre crisis Superman and the current one)


What is the differnce? I know a lot about Marvel but I don't really like Marvel so could you let me know


Also Goku is pathetic compared to sentry or superman but Sentry can beat Superman:D

Phantom Limb
April 19th, 2007, 02:10 PM
i'm going to go with the Doctor.
he has the ability to travel anywhere in time and space and
he also has almost infinite knowledge, and a sonic screwdriver!

kharn the betrayer
April 19th, 2007, 02:37 PM
What is the differnce? I know a lot about Marvel but I don't really like Marvel so could you let me know


Also Goku is pathetic compared to sentry or superman but Sentry can beat Superman:D

Precrisis... is the cheesy unbeaterble omnipotent incarnation of superman who most people know him as who could fly so fast he could travel back in time and basicly juggle planets and do other crazy crap depending on the writer


however after the crisis of infinate earths Supes got a major power reduction and is more like we know him today (still damn powerful but isnt the omnipotent monster who grew powers out of his butt every other week)

Exiled Master
April 19th, 2007, 06:08 PM
Agreed but I think galactus could beat a Celestial one on one

Actually, it turns out that he's a threat to all of them. Just read Earth X. (I think that's what it's called. It's that alternate universe series where Captain America wears the flag.)

Steve_the_Wraith
April 20th, 2007, 03:11 AM
Did you read the Neil Gaiman's Eternals series

The awakening of the dreaming celestial, scared galactus

fugiman
April 20th, 2007, 06:25 PM
Did you read the Neil Gaiman's Eternals series

The awakening of the dreaming celestial, scared galactus

I actually own all 7 of them and must say I was highly disappointed in them because they just set it up for a new comic book and made me very angry. But I love Neil Gaiman he is a gret author. But anyways the reason that galactus would beat a celestial is because if galactus started to lose then Eternity would pop out and beat the celestial down so that is why galactus would win in a fight:D

Ripple in Space
April 21st, 2007, 12:01 AM
But anyways the reason that galactus would beat a celestial is because if galactus started to lose then Eternity would pop out and beat the celestial down so that is why galactus would win in a fight:D

You opened the door for this, lol.....

By the series finale, Goku is best buddies with the Eternal Dragon. Thus he can beat anyone. The Eternal Dragon can bend reality to his will, and is entirely immortal. He has no Achilles' Heel, he's just tired. So even if Sentry is physically stronger, Goku could just ask his buddy Shenlong (the dragon) to make him 100x stronger than Sentry, 100x faster than Sentry and 100% un-killable. Heck he could then ask Shenlong to take away Sentry's arms, legs, and eyes.

Goku wins :D

fugiman
April 27th, 2007, 10:33 PM
You opened the door for this, lol.....

By the series finale, Goku is best buddies with the Eternal Dragon. Thus he can beat anyone. The Eternal Dragon can bend reality to his will, and is entirely immortal. He has no Achilles' Heel, he's just tired. So even if Sentry is physically stronger, Goku could just ask his buddy Shenlong (the dragon) to make him 100x stronger than Sentry, 100x faster than Sentry and 100% un-killable. Heck he could then ask Shenlong to take away Sentry's arms, legs, and eyes.

Goku wins :D

But that doesn't make Goku a fair fighter and Goku would want to have a fair fight so your whole arugment is flawed and if we fight in the Marvel worled then Goku gets owned because the dragon may not have any powers in that universe. Sentry can beat the hulk who just gets stronger and stronger and madder and madder so Goku would get owned

kharn the betrayer
April 27th, 2007, 11:17 PM
You opened the door for this, lol.....

By the series finale, Goku is best buddies with the Eternal Dragon. Thus he can beat anyone. The Eternal Dragon can bend reality to his will, and is entirely immortal. He has no Achilles' Heel, he's just tired. So even if Sentry is physically stronger, Goku could just ask his buddy Shenlong (the dragon) to make him 100x stronger than Sentry, 100x faster than Sentry and 100% un-killable. Heck he could then ask Shenlong to take away Sentry's arms, legs, and eyes.

Goku wins :D

yeah and when did he find the time to go find all 7 dragon balls exactly?

Goku cant exactly find the dragonballs and try get a wish and fight at the same time

and Shenlong isnt unkillerble either if you kill Dende and Shenlong goes bye bye


also if Goku has to use a magic dragon to boost his strengh then that is truley sad and pathetic as he would need outside help to win the fight and if Goku gets to use outside help whats to stop any other character from doing the same thing?


plus anyone can use the dragon balls so whats to stop sentry or anyone else getting the wishes in before Goku? like when Oolong wished for womens panties before Pilaf did in dragon ball

and whats to say some one hasnt already used them? they take an entire year to recharge

Ripple in Space
April 28th, 2007, 09:13 PM
yeah and when did he find the time to go find all 7 dragon balls exactly?

Goku cant exactly find the dragonballs and try get a wish and fight at the same time

and Shenlong isnt unkillerble either if you kill Dende and Shenlong goes bye bye


also if Goku has to use a magic dragon to boost his strengh then that is truley sad and pathetic as he would need outside help to win the fight and if Goku gets to use outside help whats to stop any other character from doing the same thing?


plus anyone can use the dragon balls so whats to stop sentry or anyone else getting the wishes in before Goku? like when Oolong wished for womens panties before Pilaf did in dragon ball

and whats to say some one hasnt already used them? they take an entire year to recharge

Watch the series finale. The Goku becomes one with the dragonballs. They are no more, Goku is the dragonballs. I only mentioned Shenlong because they mentioned other beings helping each other.

343_Guilty_Spark
April 29th, 2007, 04:30 PM
well i no this is not actually hero, nore on the evil side shall we say. but i say Pheonix. all she had to do was think about destroyin something nd there it was. or not as the case maybe.

the other one i would say is Janeway. shes bein attacked by the Borg, Macroviruses, Species 8472, Nucleonic beings, had her ship torn to shreds by a race bent on changing time and space, stopped Voyager being torn apart by a time dilation device. and still got home to earth in 7 years. she may not have any powers per say but she has plenty of courage and determination.

Ripple in Space
April 29th, 2007, 04:33 PM
well i no this is not actually hero, nore on the evil side shall we say. but i say Pheonix. all she had to do was think about destroyin something nd there it was. or not as the case maybe.

the other one i would say is Janeway. shes bein attacked by the Borg, Macroviruses, Species 8472, Nucleonic beings, had her ship torn to shreds by a race bent on changing time and space, stopped Voyager being torn apart by a time dilation device. and still got home to earth in 7 years. she may not have any powers per say but she has plenty of courage and determination.

Phoenix isn't a hero, much less the greatest hero.

Janeway certainly qualifies for clause #2, she wears a silly costume.

343_Guilty_Spark
April 29th, 2007, 04:41 PM
Phoenix isn't a hero, much less the greatest hero.

Janeway certainly qualifies for clause #2, she wears a silly costume.

hence you i said she was a bit on the evil side! and i likethe second clause that allows Janeway in!

Exiled Master
April 30th, 2007, 03:46 PM
hence you i said she was a bit on the evil side! and i likethe second clause that allows Janeway in!

If we're going to involve unaltered mortals, then Picard, :sheppard:, and :mckay: are above Janeway. Picard has gravitas, :sheppard: has wit and 1337 weapon skillz, and :mckay: can save the world just by tinkering.

343_Guilty_Spark
April 30th, 2007, 04:54 PM
:ronananime01:
If we're going to involve unaltered mortals, then Picard, :sheppard:, and :mckay: are above Janeway. Picard has gravitas, :sheppard: has wit and 1337 weapon skillz, and :mckay: can save the world just by tinkering.

Fair enuf. but if you are goin like that i am gonna say :jack:, :ronananime01:, they are fightin cos they want to survive. and to stop the ones they care about dying

kharn the betrayer
April 30th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Watch the series finale. The Goku becomes one with the dragonballs. They are no more, Goku is the dragonballs. I only mentioned Shenlong because they mentioned other beings helping each other.

GT isnt Canon though so that never happened


the only DB canon is the manga(which the DB/DBZ animes/movies where based off of) which was written by Toriyama who had pretty much nothing to do with GT


counting GT as canon would be like counting most of the Buffy/Angel comics(the ones not worked on by Joss) or Novels as canon in the Buffyverse


oh and as for Superman being the greatest hero ever...

well...

http://www.superdickery.com/

fugiman
April 30th, 2007, 07:19 PM
GT isnt Canon though so that never happened


the only DB canon is the manga(which the DB/DBZ animes/movies where based off of) which was written by Toriyama who had pretty much nothing to do with GT


counting GT as canon would be like counting most of the Buffy/Angel comics(the ones not worked on by Joss) or Novels as canon in the Buffyverse

Yeah so GoKu would lose ripple and Sentry would tear him in half:D

But back to the main point I think Captain America is the best hero ever:D

fugiman
May 4th, 2007, 06:05 PM
Ok guys who do you think is the best?

Me Capatin America
Ripple Goku
Eye of Ra Angel And Spike, Buffy and Faith
the fifth man Superman
Exiled Master Picard, Sheppard, McKay
Shoot_Me Jack and Ronon
Phantom Limb Doctor Who

So if anyone else wants to add to the list or if I missed someone just add it but I still say Captain America is the best Hero ever:D

343_Guilty_Spark
May 4th, 2007, 06:41 PM
i do have to admit that buffy is one hell of a fighter. but i am stuckin to my guns. literally with Ronan.

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 12th, 2007, 08:13 AM
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n185/mappalazarou/SPARTA_KICK.gif

Nuff said. :D

fugiman
May 14th, 2007, 02:02 PM
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n185/mappalazarou/SPARTA_KICK.gif

Nuff said. :D

Very Nice Choice I must say

But I am also thinking about Master Chief. I mean he is a Spartan;) and kicks aliens ass:D

343_Guilty_Spark
May 16th, 2007, 07:47 AM
yea John-117 isa serious badass alien kiler. i mean he doesn't like killing the Covenant he does it because he has to.

fugiman
May 16th, 2007, 08:17 PM
In my opinion the worst hero ever is Superman and Goku because they are super super powerful thus not making them fun to watch at all now say a bullet could kill them then they would be fine in my book but it can't so its not fun to watch them at all. I am sorry to say but I like my heroes being able to die:D

kharn the betrayer
May 16th, 2007, 08:30 PM
um Gokus died several times and I know Supes has died before...


oh and Goku(expecially Dragon Ball Goku) gets owned constantly *glares at Piccolo vs Goku where they both nearly kill them selves*


but DB Goku isnt nearly as strong as DBZ Goku




Marvel has its own far shair of over powered characters as well *looks at Hulk,Thor, Silver Surfer and... Squirrel Girl for examples*


oh and I think I know why people used to like Superman

http://superdickery.com/

such a great inspiring hero we have here >_>

fugiman
May 17th, 2007, 12:25 PM
um Gokus died several times and I know Supes has died before...


oh and Goku(expecially Dragon Ball Goku) gets owned constantly *glares at Piccolo vs Goku where they both nearly kill them selves*


but DB Goku isnt nearly as strong as DBZ Goku




Marvel has its own far shair of over powered characters as well *looks at Hulk,Thor, Silver Surfer and... Squirrel Girl for examples*


oh and I think I know why people used to like Superman

http://superdickery.com/

such a great inspiring hero we have here >_>

I must say that webiste is very funny:D

But I know Marvel has its list of super Super powered people but I mean come on Goku is way to powerful and never fun to watch. I am sorry but that is why I never liked the show because Goku always got more and more powerful and is never fun to watch I only like heroes that can get shot and die, like batman or spiderman if they get shot they will die:D

kharn the betrayer
May 17th, 2007, 12:49 PM
I honestly dont Like Goku though I liked a few of his fights(piccolo vs Goku) and (Goku and freinds vs Vegeta)

he falls under the ''idiot countryboy hero with a heart of gold'' catagory and I find that type of attitude rather grating (todate I only like 1 hero with that persona and he was a video game character)

343_Guilty_Spark
May 18th, 2007, 06:03 AM
In my opinion the worst hero ever is Superman and Goku because they are super super powerful thus not making them fun to watch at all now say a bullet could kill them then they would be fine in my book but it can't so its not fun to watch them at all. I am sorry to say but I like my heroes being able to die:D

yea havin heroes who not immortal is more fun. cos there is a risk they my kick the bucket.

AcidSquid
May 18th, 2007, 06:21 PM
the gratest suparhero are god

fugiman
May 19th, 2007, 12:17 PM
the gratest suparhero are god

I don't think that is Grammatically Correct

But I disagree with you, if you said Jesus because he had the powers of God but could not use them and had to be sacrificed that is true bravery and Jesus could die. I mean I am relgious but what has God really done? I mean he has other people do his job and he is the ultimate power so nothing can really effect him so thats not a real hero but lets not make this a relgious debate please:D

343_Guilty_Spark
May 19th, 2007, 03:22 PM
God is as God does. as god does nothing that mean he is nothing. but lest not go there shall we. i think another good one is probably Teal'c. i mean he has turned his back on his own ppl to help them and he has to fight hios former employer/god

fugiman
May 19th, 2007, 05:00 PM
Teal'c's good but Captain America is better:D

343_Guilty_Spark
May 21st, 2007, 05:27 PM
i got one. Sargeant Majot AJ Johnson. he got attacked by the flood an si still kickin Alien ASS. now that is what i call hardcore.

fugiman
May 23rd, 2007, 07:24 PM
Sergeant Major (You butchered this is the last post:p) AJ Johnson is also a very good pick but I still have to go with Captain America:D

Ripple in Space
May 23rd, 2007, 10:18 PM
I never said Goku gets my vote for greatest hero. My vote would go to Batman hands down (DCAU Continuity). Both morally & in a battle he'd destroy Captain America.

Sure Cap is physically stronger from all of those steroids, but Batman's the superior fighter & strategist.

343_Guilty_Spark
May 24th, 2007, 06:46 AM
Captain american never made it that big in the UK. so i stand by my choices. ^^ dont dis me. i will rip you in half.

fugiman
May 24th, 2007, 04:44 PM
Captain american never made it that big in the UK. so i stand by my choices. ^^ dont dis me. i will rip you in half.

You can try:D

But Captain America could kick Captain Britans ass:D

Now Captain America knows every form of combat on the planet and I think that a fight between Batman and Captain America would last for several hours but in the end I have to go with an American hero over a guy who dresses up like a bat:D

343_Guilty_Spark
May 24th, 2007, 06:01 PM
Dont mess wid me. cos that could be construde as racism. and i am not for racism. seein as i have been a victim of it. and Captain America is over rated. i would say Jet Li's characetr in The One. now that is a hero.

fugiman
May 26th, 2007, 05:07 PM
Come on Captain America could destroy batman. Batman is like a 9.9 in combat skills but Captain America is a 10

Also Batman needs many gadgets to get the job done but Cap only needs his shield:D

But I don't think Cap could beat superman where batman could:D

343_Guilty_Spark
June 1st, 2007, 03:53 PM
i dont mean to burst your patriotic bubble but all of the characters we are arguing about are of USA origin. so why bother

fugiman
June 1st, 2007, 07:17 PM
i dont mean to burst your patriotic bubble but all of the characters we are arguing about are of USA origin. so why bother

I don't think Goku is american also Superman is from the planet Krypton so I don't count that as American so who do you have then?

343_Guilty_Spark
June 2nd, 2007, 06:01 PM
no ione. most of them are created by an American. most of the British 'Heroes' as you put it are mortals. say Mr Bond he can be killed. Goku was probably dreamt up in Japan. and i do not mean what planet they came from in there respective series but what nationality the person was who made them up.

fugiman
June 3rd, 2007, 12:42 PM
no ione. most of them are created by an American. most of the British 'Heroes' as you put it are mortals. say Mr Bond he can be killed. Goku was probably dreamt up in Japan. and i do not mean what planet they came from in there respective series but what nationality the person was who made them up.

I like mr Bond he is a good choice but good old Chuck Norris could take him:D

343_Guilty_Spark
June 3rd, 2007, 06:13 PM
Mr Bond is a good choice i agree. and i think Chuck Norris is just funny as hell :D

fugiman
June 6th, 2007, 10:52 AM
Mr Bond is a good choice i agree. and i think Chuck Norris is just funny as hell :D

Chuck Norris is a god come on I mean who could beat him?:D

Hjalmar
June 6th, 2007, 12:35 PM
must be spawn aka Al Simons totally

http://www.samhartgraphics.com/img/spawn.jpg

He's the example of a reluctant hero, and his powers totally kick ass + he's not totally good, which makes him a lot more interesting than all the super-good super heroes.

kharn the betrayer
June 6th, 2007, 04:16 PM
Chuck Norris is a god come on I mean who could beat him?:D

http://youtube.com/watch?v=76CS9z9kQ44

343_Guilty_Spark
June 6th, 2007, 05:09 PM
chuck norris is a god i must admit it.

lord-anubis
June 7th, 2007, 01:06 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/sesshomaru21/doctor%20who/davidsonic_150.jpg

all he needs is his tardis,sonic scwdriver and his sidekick K-9

343_Guilty_Spark
June 7th, 2007, 04:14 PM
LOL true the Doctor is a class hero

fugiman
June 11th, 2007, 08:03 PM
Captain America could kill the Doctor in a fight

lord-anubis
June 12th, 2007, 11:38 PM
Captain America could kill the Doctor in a fight

yep probly but the Doctor insent realy a fighter well maybe the 3 one was. the doctor is the type of person who uses is mind rather in use violence. but he has before i guess it all depends on which doctor were talking about. you know he probly just have some one with him that could be captain america.

343_Guilty_Spark
June 13th, 2007, 02:47 AM
em. well i could say thee Arbiter. having to turn agaisnt his former allies because they have murdered all the Councillors, (Halo 2), and then to become an ally of the human race takes a lot of balls.

lord-anubis
June 13th, 2007, 08:40 AM
i hate the arbiter well maybe not him so much as his levels the only good covent weapon was the sword

fugiman
June 15th, 2007, 04:57 PM
i hate the arbiter well maybe not him so much as his levels the only good covent weapon was the sword

Its true it was the only good covent weapon

But Captain America could take anyone in a fight except maybe a god being or something and thats just not fair

343_Guilty_Spark
June 23rd, 2007, 04:57 PM
hmm capyain america. is an overblown image of the patriotic american.

Ripple in Space
July 12th, 2007, 12:20 PM
Its true it was the only good covent weapon

But Captain America could take anyone in a fight except maybe a god being or something and thats just not fair

As far as fighting skill Batman has the edge over Captain America. They did meet, and spar (in mutual continuity), and Batman deduced that Captain America might be able to beat him, but the battle would drag on for a very long time. Since Batman's physical prowess is entirely a result of his training, and Cap's was from being hopped up on steroids, clearly Batman's a more skilled fighter. If Cap's hopped up body + his fighting skills is roughly equal to Batman's human body + his fighting skills, then Batman's clearly more skilled.