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GateWorld
April 8th, 2007, 01:42 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s3/index.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/graphics/320.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">LOST SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s3/index.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 320</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
When Locke rejoins to the Others, Ben reluctantly agrees to take him to Jacob, their enigmatic leader -- revealing new secrets about Ben's own childhood on the island. Back at the beach camp, the survivors confront Juliet about her true agenda.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s3/index.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
May 9th, 2007, 07:06 PM
holy crud

lots of secrets, i almost felt sorry for ben..but he's such a frakking psycho that i just can't

he's a mass murderer, who killed his father. now locke's not a mass murderer, but he killed his father - or got him killed

now, did we ever learn ben's father's name.....and could it be jacob?

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 9th, 2007, 07:10 PM
Pretty good episode. I hope Ben doesn't get killed off, [/strike]I really want to learn the story behind how Ben and what's her name slept together, and they had that daughter who's name slips my mind at the moment Alex (thank you wikipedia).

As for the thrilling end of the episode, well (spoilers for the finale)I hope Locke kills Jack in that showdown because I like Locke, he's a cool character

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 9th, 2007, 07:11 PM
now, did we ever learn ben's father's name.....and could it be jacob?
Ben's dad's name was Roger. The guy who Hurley found in that van a couple of episodes back.

Morbo
May 9th, 2007, 07:12 PM
in case you missed it, during the craziness in the jacob cabin - there WAS someone sitting in the chair...
pic:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8625/jacobid0.png

absolutely. amazing. episode.

Morbo
May 9th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Ben's dad's name was Roger. The guy who Hurley found in that van a couple of episodes back.

yup. skeletor!

FoolishPleasure
May 9th, 2007, 07:14 PM
OMG. . that episode was weird!!

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 9th, 2007, 07:14 PM
in case you missed it, during the craziness in the jacob cabin - there WAS someone sitting in the chair...
pic:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8625/jacobid0.png

absolutely. amazing. episode.
Huh, I didn't notice that.

Morbo
May 9th, 2007, 07:15 PM
lets not forget that apparently Richard doesn't age at all, and he's been on the island all along.

Sandrock
May 9th, 2007, 07:16 PM
This episode was terrific! We learned a ton of stuff!!!

-Ben wasn't born on the island
-Ben is the last remaining member of the Dharma Initiative
-There is another group of "Others" on the island (the natives)
-Richard is apparently a native and doesn't age
-Ben was responsible for the Purge that killed off the Dharma Initiative
-We get to see the "line in the sand" that Mikhal yelled about when Sayid approached the communications cabin

Great episodes, can't wait for the next!

Morbo
May 9th, 2007, 07:21 PM
here, found this elsewhere - someone brightened up the picture of jacob in the chair - looks a lot like Locke in a wig (for the aged effect).
sorry about the language - like i said, i just found it:

http://i4.tinypic.com/4yuobqh.jpg

FoolishPleasure
May 9th, 2007, 07:22 PM
lets not forget that apparently Richard doesn't age at all, and he's been on the island all along.

Yeah, Richard didn't age at all, but Roger did. I wonder how old Ben really is.

Poor Locke!

FoolishPleasure
May 9th, 2007, 07:25 PM
here, found this elsewhere - someone brightened up the picture of jacob in the chair - looks a lot like Locke in a wig (for the aged effect).
sorry about the language - like i said, i just found it:

http://i4.tinypic.com/4yuobqh.jpg

Could that be Christian Sheppard - Jack's dad?

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 9th, 2007, 07:25 PM
here, found this elsewhere - someone brightened up the picture of jacob in the chair - looks a lot like Locke in a wig (for the aged effect).
sorry about the language - like i said, i just found it:

http://i4.tinypic.com/4yuobqh.jpg
Holy Crap, your right, it does look like Locke.

Morbo
May 9th, 2007, 07:26 PM
This episode was terrific! We learned a ton of stuff!!!

-We get to see the "line in the sand" that Mikhal yelled about when Sayid approached the communications cabin

i don't get what you're saying.

a) mikhal was lying to sayid and locke because he was pretending to be the last Dharma guy. the "drawn line" was figurative, really. because Tom said the same thing to Jack in the jungle waaaaayyy back. saying you stay on your side we'll leave you alone. so there was no line mikhal was talking about.

b) whatever it was that Locke saw on the ground on their walk to jacob - i dunno - gunpowder? ash?

or am i missing something?

i feel like the school lesson on volcanoes won't have been for naught...

Morbo
May 9th, 2007, 07:28 PM
Could that be Christian Sheppard - Jack's dad?

uh, no. he's dead. he died in australia. the island didn't bring him back to life in some twisted time-travelling circumstance where he has been a leader for longer than his dead body has been lost on the island.

FoolishPleasure
May 9th, 2007, 07:31 PM
uh, no. he's dead. he died in australia. the island didn't bring him back to life in some twisted time-travelling circumstance where he has been a leader for longer than his dead body has been lost on the island.

But when Jack found the coffin, it was empty, and in season 1 he saw his father standing in the distance.

Maybe Christian was never dead. Remember those spider things that bit Paula and Nikki? Could have been a way to get him to the island and have everyone "think" he was dead.

Maybe I'm thinking too much now. *LOL*

Morbo
May 9th, 2007, 07:45 PM
But when Jack found the coffin, it was empty, and in season 1 he saw his father standing in the distance.

Maybe Christian was never dead. Remember those spider things that bit Paula and Nikki? Could have been a way to get him to the island and have everyone "think" he was dead.

Maybe I'm thinking too much now. *LOL*

the coffin was empty because it fell from a plane. who knows if we'll ever find the body.
jacks dad appearing on the beach was the blacksmoke monster thingy - like Yemi appearing to Eko.

the fifth man
May 9th, 2007, 08:47 PM
Definitely an episode full of info. I can't wait to see how things continue to unfold leading up to the season finale.

jenks
May 9th, 2007, 09:42 PM
How many episodes left this season? Two?

jazz!
May 9th, 2007, 11:30 PM
I am in awe that the screencap shows someone in the chair - I saw nothing! - I thought I was special :(

Anywho, Jacob seems to be clothed like the (American speaking, accented, looking (- I guess after a few years they begin to take on some traits)) native hostiles, so like Richard, who doesn't seem to age, he too must be a native -


Indeed, it does look like only 2 episodes left - however I thought one of them was 2 hours?


Also, according to Wiki

- "According to executive producer Carlton Cuse the season finale will feature a showdown between Jack and Locke. (with citation! (http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/default.aspx?columndate=18-Apr-2007))"

So "Jacob" must heal John?


And also whats cool is: the hostiles "taking over" has only been quite recent (assuming Ben hasn't been given the gift of youth - by the Hostiles/Jacob/Dharama Experiment)(or maybe Ben was supposed look like he's in his mid 20's? xD :D )
- Ben probabily killed Roger for the same reason as Locke - he has no real idea about the Island but wants to know?

memnarch
May 9th, 2007, 11:35 PM
Two episodes technically, but the second one's two hours. And a Jack flashback, which if it sucks, will seriously piss me off, since Jack's had more flashbacks that ANYONE!

This has the potential of being either a spectacular episode, or the one that makes me stop watching the show religiously. If Locke is dead, I will stop watching. Period. Locke is the driving force for uncovering the Island's mysteries and if that's taken away, what's the point? Unless someone else takes up the mantle (Eko could have, if he hadn't died) very little will be discovered, which is something that's frustrated me to no end this season. Although I am invested in the characters and what happens to them, there has been kind of a disconnect this season from the folks on the beach, with very little happening with them at all. I might stop watching the show if Locke lives and the action continues to be off of the folks on the beach.

Anyway, I am excited about what this episode could mean, should the powers that be choose to answer the questions raised in it.

I usually give ratings on episodes, but I'm honestly far too conflicted on this one...

Groove
May 10th, 2007, 04:17 AM
WOW. Story packed episode and a lot of questions answered. You can see why Ben is such a calm-faced maniac after that traumatic upbringing although I really didn't see him shooting John coming.

Will Locke return then? I think if he's just left there, the wound would normally take a very long time to kill someone. I think that due to that, Locke will actually heal, given his connection to the island. Well, someone's confrimed it anyway now, so on to next week!

Skydiver
May 10th, 2007, 04:52 AM
what i think

i think that spring jack found...it's the fountain of youth. the island revives, revitalizes and heals you...but to fully enjoy it you have to stay on the island. you leave, it stops working.

and you also can't reproduce.

thus you can be

healed and live forever...but never have children

come, be healed, leave, be unhealed but live 'naturally'

Skydiver
May 10th, 2007, 04:54 AM
there are 3 eps left

a one hour next week, whose name escapes me
a two hour finale airing the 23rd called 'through the looking glass'

then, the rumors i heard was that lost has been renewed for 3 more 16 episode seasons, then it's over

but i don't have a source for that, just a rumor i heard

Gordo
May 10th, 2007, 06:19 AM
there are 3 eps left

a one hour next week, whose name escapes me
a two hour finale airing the 23rd called 'through the looking glass'

then, the rumors i heard was that lost has been renewed for 3 more 16 episode seasons, then it's over

but i don't have a source for that, just a rumor i heard

Here you go:
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=1&id=41410

Morbo
May 10th, 2007, 06:42 AM
what i think

i think that spring jack found...it's the fountain of youth. the island revives, revitalizes and heals you...but to fully enjoy it you have to stay on the island. you leave, it stops working.

and you also can't reproduce.

thus you can be

healed and live forever...but never have children

come, be healed, leave, be unhealed but live 'naturally'

interesting idea...

sounds like
http://www.garnersclassics.com/pics/crusade/knight.jpg

katielovesdaniel
May 10th, 2007, 06:55 AM
woah.. that episode made my head hurt with all the crazy info.
The Volcano has to do with something, the producers dont put things in there for no reason with out it having a meaning behind it. I think the sand has something to do with the black smoke. I think there was a part between when we saw Ben first meet Richard in the Jungle when he was younger and the time when they killed everyone. I think he met Jacob at one point. But why would Richard and his "people" kill everyone and then make Ben thier leader??
That whole cabin thing with Jacob was shocking, I saw the dude on the chair, man Ben did not look good when he came out of the cabin and was like that was Jacob.
um I wanna know about Kelvin. was Kelvin part of the "real" Dharma that Ben was a part of and since he was down in the Hatch he didnt die from the Purge???
I think Richard and his band of non aging people are either Black rock desendents or have to do with the 4 toed statue. I believe that Richard is one of the originial inhabitants cause everyone else aged normally, Ben, Alex, Aarron, they didnt all grow up so fast.
So if "Richards gang" coudlnt have children, and Alex is Frenchies daughter where did Karl come from cause he is young too.
Man... so many questions, and I HATE Kate, and LOVE Sayid and Sawyer... I wanted them to go back to the beach to catch up on what Jack had to say.. oh well.. I dont know if Locke is really dead, I think Jacob will heal him or whatever he does.

Anyways too much thinking, and i have work to do,

Katie

Skydiver
May 10th, 2007, 07:22 AM
yeah, what if you leave the island you're 'unyouthed' and un healed

it's like time stops on the island, but once you leave it, you catch back up to it...or it catches up with you

rarocks24
May 10th, 2007, 07:53 AM
Sense we've come to the conclusion that the island is the Fountain of Youth, and that children can't be born here, here's the question I'm left with, if Sun leaves, will she be able to conceive?

LoneStar1836
May 10th, 2007, 08:01 AM
Great episode. Though it got a little freaky and bizarre with invisible Jacob...though I did see him when things got crazy.

I wonder what happened to Annie...the girl that befriended Ben...that was her name wasn't it? I don't think Ben would have allowed her to be killed in the purge if she were still on the island/alive.

Cap116
May 10th, 2007, 08:06 AM
Just when you think that there could be more questions, and questions were being answered. They give us more things to question. Should have known, but great episode.

Skydiver
May 10th, 2007, 09:12 AM
Sense we've come to the conclusion that the island is the Fountain of Youth, and that children can't be born here, here's the question I'm left with, if Sun leaves, will she be able to conceive?

as long as she sleeps with someone other than jin, sure. her 'plumbing' is working fine, it's jin's that's been broken


Great episode. Though it got a little freaky and bizarre with invisible Jacob...though I did see him when things got crazy.

I wonder what happened to Annie...the girl that befriended Ben...that was her name wasn't it? I don't think Ben would have allowed her to be killed in the purge if she were still on the island/alive.

i have to wonder if something happened with annie to push ben over the edge. maybe she left, maybe she was killed, i think she'd be ben's stressor more than his father

Morbo
May 10th, 2007, 09:34 AM
So if "Richards gang" coudlnt have children, and Alex is Frenchies daughter where did Karl come from cause he is young too.

don't quote me on it, but do the babies die too, or just the mothers. i know the mothers died, but don't the babies survive? i could be wrong, i honestly can't remember.

BUT. remember, as recently as 3 years ago the others were recruiting people to the island - Juliet. so its possible Karl was brought there.


yeah, what if you leave the island you're 'unyouthed' and un healed

it's like time stops on the island, but once you leave it, you catch back up to it...or it catches up with you

LOST TIME (mittleos)

warmbeachbrat
May 10th, 2007, 10:43 AM
interesting idea...

sounds like
http://www.garnersclassics.com/pics/crusade/knight.jpg

Not exactly....Indy's dad was healed by the water, yet he was still able to leave the cave and remain healed.:confused:

Skydiver
May 10th, 2007, 10:44 AM
if the mothers never make it past the second trimester, the children die too. the fetus' would be too young to survive

pregnancies need to make it through the 7th month at the earliest to have a chance of survival

so both mother and child die

Skydiver
May 10th, 2007, 10:45 AM
where as the old knight couldn't leave, and if he did he turned to dust

it could be the longer you stay, the greater the effects, thus the longer you stay, the more you HAVE to stay

knowles2
May 10th, 2007, 11:24 AM
Well this awesome episode, so many questions i had, was answer, and so many more created, well that just about sums up the entire series.

Jakub man he one crazy dude, personally I think he the representation of the island, and the island is in need of help.

I think the reason they cannot have children is because of the nerve gas they used, it their own fault by doing the purge they ended their future as a civilization and perhaps even killed the island in the process.

But I hope we see Jakob again and soon.

I just wish the closing scene was of them on the beach preparing their plans for the attack I think that would of been better ending than just seeing the lock in the pit.

I think that Ann / ben child hood friend is either dead, alive on the island yet to be seen or a other possible twist is still part of the dharma intuitive that still going on, in fact could of ben just been a experiment, given what his dad thought of him it possible that they let him work on the island so they could used ben as an experiment,it the only way to explain how a child got hold of the access codes to the security fence, because they wanted him to get it, and they want him to join the hostiles. Also it seem that Hostiles also had contacts out side of the island I mean on the canister their was no dharma initiative logo on it, could the hostiles just be a other off island group, which means we still have not meat the others, when lock beat the **** out of the patch man no else intervene is lock really their leader or are they just letting league for a reason, could all this just part of some part of grander experiment.



And ben killing or shotting lock was a shock and i was not expecting that.

And other question is has we known Jakub all along is Jakub just a other incarnation of the island, man just keep on getting ideas, only a other 51 hours tv to watch and we will know the answers to our questions then.


I think I stop here, before I stop making sense.

I wish I could see next week episode right now.

Arative
May 10th, 2007, 02:03 PM
They were touting this episode to answer a lot but man, it didn't really answer anything for me! I like the idea of there being a fountain of youth on the island.

Are the hostiles pretending to be the Dharma iniative that they killed to the outside world? What is Dharma then if they are all dead and how did they build all the stations if there are hostiles on the island? Are there others besides the hostiles? What is up with Jacob, what and who is he? At some point the writers are going to have to start giving up answers, since we have a ending point for the show now.

cindyz
May 10th, 2007, 02:56 PM
I think I need to watch this episode again. too many things I have missed. But WOW what a great episode. just WOW. Ben was a creepy child as he is as an adult.

LoneStar1836
May 10th, 2007, 04:01 PM
i have to wonder if something happened with annie to push ben over the edge. maybe she left, maybe she was killed, i think she'd be ben's stressor more than his fatherThat sounds like a good possibility.

Though my impression was that Ben had been colluding with the Others ever since he was a kid and ran into Richard but something happening to her could have put him over the edge.

About the gas canisters. I think that they were supplied by Dharma and Ben passed them off them to the Others. Dharma people seemed well armed in their battle against the Others. If the Others had already had such a weapon, I think they would have already used it.

Morbo
May 10th, 2007, 04:09 PM
Not exactly....Indy's dad was healed by the water, yet he was still able to leave the cave and remain healed.:confused:

I was referring more to the fact that if you drank from the grail and were granted eternal life - you couldn't go beyond the great seal. but your point is good too.


if the mothers never make it past the second trimester, the children die too. the fetus' would be too young to survive

pregnancies need to make it through the 7th month at the earliest to have a chance of survival

so both mother and child die

ah ok. cool, thanks for clarifying.


Jakub Jakob Jakub Jakub

dude.
it's jacob.

Sun'shyne
May 10th, 2007, 05:37 PM
Though my impression was that Ben had been colluding with the Others ever since he was a kid and ran into Richard but something happening to her could have put him over the edge.


I agree, I think he'd been 'in' with them ever since he met that one in the forrest. The man said "it will take a lot of patience" when Ben said he wanted to join them.

Thermonuclearboy
May 10th, 2007, 06:17 PM
I was under the impression that the Others not being able to have kids was a relatively new thing. I mean, they had to have come from SOMEWHERE, right? My theory is that the DHARMA Initiative did something to the Island in the course of studying its properties that changed it (the "Incident" of the orientation film), thus prohibiting women from giving birth. It's possible Karl was born before this happened.

So...the DHARMA Intiative's utopian community was pretty much a bust. Roger was a "Work Man," and apparently Ben inherited his position rather than being allowed to choose his own destiny. So much for a perfect society. Damn hippies...

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 10th, 2007, 07:33 PM
I just found this on Digg (http://www.digg.com/television/The_11_frames_of_Jacob_from_lost) about Jacob (it even has Slow-mo video):
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/05/11-frames-of-jacob.html

unowhoandwhy
May 11th, 2007, 12:14 PM
if the mothers never make it past the second trimester, the children die too. the fetus' would be too young to survive

pregnancies need to make it through the 7th month at the earliest to have a chance of survival

so both mother and child die

Juliet did say that both mother & child die, but the 7th month statistic isn't actually true. While most preemies don't survive if born before 23-24 weeks, there are several cases of babies younger than that surviving (although at such a young age they have major health issues). I was going to provide some links, but most of them were to pro-life sites & I don't want this to get political. I just wanted to point out that babies can survive at 6 months after conception or before.

Skydiver
May 11th, 2007, 12:49 PM
good point...however i don't know aobut the survival rate of such a preemie in the rather rustic living situations of the island

majorsal
May 11th, 2007, 06:31 PM
I just found this on Digg (http://www.digg.com/television/The_11_frames_of_Jacob_from_lost) about Jacob (it even has Slow-mo video):
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/05/11-frames-of-jacob.html

in that video, when the camera focuses in on a face/eye; is that supposed to be jacob? (it kind of looks like ben's eye)



sally :)

Dr,jackson
May 12th, 2007, 03:02 AM
Lost really is getting weirder but I still love it ,
I really hope lock isn't gonna die , but I loved the ep I really wonder what jack and julliet are up too together

solaceinutopia
May 12th, 2007, 04:47 PM
*sniff* why loche?! why???
ah well... i'm sure he will back soon.

as for jacob, he looked very pirate-esque. could he be a descendent/ancestor of jake sparrow?!

cindyz
May 12th, 2007, 05:02 PM
my thoughts...these origional others...seem to have been on this island for a very long time...maybe there is something in the water...or magical healing/live long and prosper powers of the island...and thus giving them extra ordinary powers...like being able to be invisable...surely we have all noticed that Richard hasn't aged a bit...hmmm alot of questions were ansered with this ep and new ones formed in our minds.

Mike1989
May 14th, 2007, 02:52 AM
Well having seen the episode, it was great, but thats two of my favourite characters now gone...Ecko the Loch...hopefully Loche survives some how, maybe that Russian field surgeon guy...

Naonak
May 14th, 2007, 11:32 AM
Well, I'm freaked out...

FinalMacGyver
May 16th, 2007, 10:35 AM
Lost really is getting weirder but I still love it ,
I really hope lock isn't gonna die , but I loved the ep I really wonder what jack and julliet are up too together

It does keep getting werider but I cant wait for tonights episode

jds1982
May 16th, 2007, 03:55 PM
Apparently Ben's dad was Uncle Rico (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0340973/)from Napoleon Dynamite. On a separate note I have found an exclusive photo of Ben (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0374900/nap-livingroomc.jpg.html) from his high school years. Jacob offers you his protection.

Arga
May 20th, 2007, 01:36 PM
At the end of the episode, I wonder why it was so important for Ben to know what Jacob said to John.. Ben seemed to be really anxious and worried that Jacob said something to John...
(I haven't seen the next episode yet..)

Anyway, it was nice to see the actor who plays Ben's father (Jon Gries) because I was a big fan of the series "The Pretender".
I didn't recognized him with hair on! LOL.
Then he looked like an aged version of him.

lunarleviathan
May 21st, 2007, 04:46 PM
At the end of the episode, I wonder why it was so important for Ben to know what Jacob said to John.. Ben seemed to be really anxious and worried that Jacob said something to John...
(I haven't seen the next episode yet..)

I think it was implied that only Ben could speak to or see Jacob. Ben came to join The Others after telling Richard that he saw his dead mother in the jungle, something he seemed to regard as special. Ben is special, and also has become the leader of The Others, so Ben clearly feels that Locke is a challenge to his authority. This is why Ben was jealous of Locke recovering from his paralysis as soon as he crashed on the island, Ben was paralysed also but it took him quite a while to fully recover.

Also, since Jacob said "Help me", there is a possibility that Ben has some kind of hold over Jacob, another reason Ben might not want Locke knowing.

Sp!der
December 24th, 2007, 09:17 AM
i can only say, thats one of the best episodes of all episodes of this show!!!
great actors!...:cool:

Alan Wake
November 14th, 2008, 08:57 PM
what i think

i think that spring jack found...it's the fountain of youth. the island revives, revitalizes and heals you...but to fully enjoy it you have to stay on the island. you leave, it stops working.

and you also can't reproduce.

thus you can be

healed and live forever...but never have children

come, be healed, leave, be unhealed but live 'naturally'

When the castaways first crashed on the island, they found 2 skeletons in the old caves they used to live in. I would say because these 2 people were found dead together, it doesn't look like you are able to live forever on the island. Richard being the strange exception.

rushy
December 4th, 2009, 04:46 AM
I say a thing nobody has never thought. There is no Jacob.It is just a normal Island although a bunch of Brainless people live there,The Others are just a religious sect serving Jacob who doesn't exist.Richard doesn't age because he believes so much and his body doesn't think of aging.