Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[astrogeologist]

I was looking at the writers of the top Sam episodes and
realized that three writers typically do the best with
showing the different sides of Sam: Robert C. Cooper,
Brad Wright and Johnathan Glassner.

Singularity............... Robert C. Cooper
Solitudes................. Brad Wright
Hathor.................... D. Carren/J Carroll
ITLOD..................... Robert C. Cooper
Tokra 2................... Johnathan Glassner
Tokra 1................... Johnathan Glassner
Jolinar's Memories...... S. Wareham, D.Stashower
Foothold ..................Heather E. Ash
Point of View............ J.Glassner,R.Cooper,B.Wright
Entity...................... Peter Deluise
Divide and Conquer.... T. Valenza
2010....................... Brad Wright
Ascension................ Robert C. Cooper
2001....................... Brad Wright
48 hours.................. Robert C. Cooper


Edit:
I really think Brad Wright does the best in showing the
softer personal side of Sam. I thought 2010 was wonderful
at showing the personal side of Sam without making her
appear weak or unable to make clear, concise decisions.

ForeverSG1

This was a wonderful list ForeverSG-1! Thanks so much for looking up all those authors for us! And - this was a great idea - the writers deserve credit and recognition for their work! It is also very interesting to see who has written what.

My tiny brain, however, needed to have it spelled out as to which episode was in which season (my memory isn't as good as the rest of yours ... yes, those of you who can remember every frame of each episode! My memory pales in comparison! ). I also used a little color to make it easier for me to see who did what.

[B]S1: Singularity............... Robert C. Cooper
S1: Solitudes................. Brad Wright
S1: Hathor.................... D. Carren/J Carroll

S2: ITLOD..................... Robert C. Cooper
S2: Tokra 1/2.................Johnathan Glassner
S2: A Matter of Time……...Misha Rashovich, Brad Wright

S3: Jolinar's Memories.......S. Wareham, D.Stashower
S3: Foothold .................. Heather E. Ash
S3: Point of View............ J.Glassner, R.Cooper, B.Wright

S4: Entity...................... Peter Deluise
S4: Divide and Conquer.... T. Valenza
S4: 2010....................... Brad Wright

S5: Ascension................ Robert C. Cooper
S5: 2001....................... Brad Wright
S5: 48 hours.................. Robert C. Cooper

From what the Season 6 poll looks like so far:
S6: Nightwalkers……… ...... Joseph Mallozzi, Paul Mullie
S6: Paradise Lost………..... Robert C. Cooper
S6: Metamorphosis……… ...Jacqueline Samuda, James Tichenor
S6: Unnatural Selection……Robert C. Cooper, Brad Wright

For Seasons 7&8, just a few of the ones that I've read lots of Sam comments for...
S7: Grace………................Damien Kindler
S7: Death Knell….............Peter Deluise
S7: Avenger 2.0……… ...... Joseph Mallozzi, Paul Mullie
S7: Space Race…….. .......Damian Kindler

S8: New Order, part 2…… Robert C. Cooper
S8: Gemini………………........Peter DeLuise
S8: Reckoning, pts 1&2....Damian Kindler

Robert C. Cooper has 8 of the 27 listed above! - that's 29.7%!
Brad Wright has 6 of the 27 listed above! - that's 22.2%

Overall, I think Robert C. Cooper and Brad Wright deserve special recognition for all of the episodes that they've written that we have ultimately voted as part of our top 3 episodes of each season! Truly remarkable work!

Robert C. Cooper ... this list is long... wow! But I want to make a special note of the addition of Replicarter at the end of New Order, 2. As I understand things, Replicarter was not part of the original script, but he wrote it in just before the script was finished (and it was RCC that invented her, right?). At any rate, I thought that was a *brilliant* little addition to the script. So loaded with potential possibilities for future Stargate storylines and drama!

Brad Wright - special kudos for penning both 2010 and 2001.

Damien Kindler - my kudos for Grace and Reckoning!

Peter Deluise - Death Knell was great Carter in the field. The only thing I wanted... was more of it!

Heather Ash - gets my special thanks for one of the best Carter episodes ever written. As I said before, I think that this was the epitome of a hero's role that would not have to be rewritten at all to have been played by a lead male hero. Well done!


Now... for the ones below... hmmm... mumble..mumble...?... goes back to Sky's line about Sam written with a concussion... I think that Skydiver has said it fairly well... when they wrote some of the big "Sam's personal issue scenes", they wrote out-of-character... some of which was probably necessary because the character was being expanded with these personal looks that we hadn't had before... but only some of it... and it shouldn't have made so many folks (myself included) groan, wince or go bug-eyed... mentally thinking... she wouldn't do *that*!

‘More Personal Stories of Seasons 7 and 8’
S7: Chimera................... Robert C. Cooper
S8: Affinity.................... Peter Deluise
S8: Threads…………… ........Robert C. Cooper

[astrogeologist]

I wasn't real thrilled with Sam in 2010. In that one part, where Joe's saying he won't let Sam do this or that (Joe was going to hand over the GDO I think?), I wanted Sam to jump in and be bothered that things were being decided for her, while she's in the blasted room. I don't know... maybe she just let it slide, knowing that she was going to do just what she wanted anyway...

I agree with you on that scene, MajorSal - Sam's lack of ... saying anything... irked me. Surely she would have protested Joe's demand? Maybe pulled him off to the side and argued with him - she was a USAF Colonel at one time!
.

[majorsal]

How about for "Beneath the Surface"...

..."Buried Alive"

'Beneath the Surface' becomes -





'I Demand New Pajamas'


Sally


*pic courtesy of www.amandatapping.com*

[majorsal]

Unfortunately my internet connection is really bad tonight so I'm not sure
if this will even make it through or I'll be on later. But I've been
working on some season 6 renames for our game.

Rename the Episode
The Other Guys
"Hey look...it's tweedle dee and tweedle dum"

Allegiance
"I know you are...but what am I?"

Unnatural Selection
"I can't get you outta my head"

Metamorphis
"My kingdom for a sponge." *cringe*


I know they are silly but I think I was in an O'Neill frame of mine
tonight... nothing but sarcastic humour. *LOL*

ForeverSG1

LOVE 'em!

Sally

[astrogeologist]

i gotta agree with what you say about peter and rob. maybe, and i'm just guessing here, i've never really met either of these guys, but maybe the 'issue' is that when they write sam, they get hung up on writing this female and they write her how they'd LIKE her to be. in other words, maybe peter's dream woman is forgiving when he keeps leaving the seat up or when he calls her at work 10 times a day or things like that.

however, while that view of sam as a rather bideable, malleable person just isn't who we've seen on the screen. Sam on the show is a rather self possessed person, so doesn't seem to like to take crud from anyone. (how many times have we seen her glaring at Jack when he's being annoying? rank doesn't allow her to say anything, but she certainly speaks volumes with her eyes)

I guess what i'm trying to say, while the boys can write soldier/scientist sam, when it comes to personal sam, their interpretation of a woman isn't quite what we've seen, so they write her like she's got a massive concussion or something.

they seem to concentrate so much on writing the woman that they forget to write the character

like the kiss at the end of affinity. yeah, cool filmmaking and a nice predictible shot to end the show with....but Sam????? the commander of the mission???? she's gonna snog Pete with her whole crew looking on?
yeah, i don't think so. Sam would cringe at the next two week's worth of 'i saw carter giving the cop a tonsilectomy'

they sacrificed the character for the sake of the shot....which has been happening a lot lately and has certainly opened amanda up for some unearned criticism largely because it's not Sam doing this...it's sam being the victim of some guy's opinion of how she should act.

the actors know the characters better than the directors and it shows when the directors don't listen

Skydiver - great comments and assessments!

I could *so* see them ending an episode with a male lead hero kissing a beautiful woman - while they are still on the battlefield... with all the other guys looking on... cheering him on... But with a female lead such as Sam... nope, it doesn't fly... and with so many folks already upset that the way the Sam-Pete thing had gone... nope, that kind of scene wasn't going to go over well. Sam may be a great kick-ass, competent soldier, but she's not portrayed as Jamie Bond.

As for sacrificing the character for the shot... the briefing room scene in Fragile Balance is the poster child for that syndrome. That scene (and episode) was all about Jack O'Neill and what happened to Carter was just collateral damage.

[astrogeologist]

I digged Gemini too - I think it showed that Sam can make mistakes while still being a strong character... For those who think it made her a weak character because she wanted to believe the best in her lookalike and as a result exercised poor judgment apparently haven't consider the reprocussions of a perfect, flawless character (i.e., how BORING is that?!??)

I've given a little bit of thought to this as well as something that's been bothering me about Atlantis. More specifically, Elizabeth Weir and what my problem is with her (as opposed to the first Elizabeth Weir, who I thought was great). My problem with Weir is quite frankly, she isn't Sam - she doesn't emote like Sam, she doesn't have a sense of humor like Sam and she doesn't seem to have the depth of Sam.

Let's take for example one of my favorite Sam eps "Singularity" and use it as a case study on the Sam Carter character.

What I noticed right away is how this serious scientist supersoldier fell into the role of surrogate mother...

She's very at ease with Cassandra, very gentle and loving yet still very strong and assertive.

When Cassandra gets sick, Sam's reaction is that of any "mother" in the same situation - fear, worry and a deep sense of helplessness.

Sam is faced with a situation where she does her best to fight for Cassandra - but when faced with the stern will of her commanding officer (Hammond), she reluctantly obeys.

She steels herself for the long trip down the elevator and is stunned when Cassie wakes up.

But her disbelief soon turns into shock, horror and dismay as she starts to come to terms with the fact that Cassandra is awake and may experience a horrifying death.

Sam tries to stay strong because she's under orders but her feelings are quite evident as she says goodbye to Cassandra.

This is when the war within her truly comes to light...

...and I feel the true scope of both Sam's emotional range and Amanda's skills as an actress comes to life. You feel as though your in that elevator with her when the decision is made to defy orders and return to Cassandra.

The mothering instinct kicks into full gear as Sam determines that Cassandra might face death (she might not) - but no matter what, she wouldn't face it alone...

With the drama ended, levity begins... Just watch the range of expressions as Sam responds to Jack's "...it's the law" line and then how she continues the nurturing interaction with Cassandra.

This was a superb bit of work both for the actress as we see her emotional range and the character because we get to see a side of her we don't normally get to see... we know that she has a strong maternal instinct and a soft, compassionate side in addition to being the scientist/soldier.

We don't get to see her as a soldier in this episode (no butt kicking) but that's okay because we learn more about her character (we already know she can wipe the floor with the bad guys).

With Weir, I haven't seen much emoting at all... I wish she were more like Sam - a commanding presence with a softer side...

I therefore give SINGULARITY 5 out of 5 zats.

Uber - this was an outstanding post!

The screencaps were fantastic! Loved them *all*! You did a wonderful job of capturing the expressions on AT's face. Such great acting - words are not necessary. Just looking at your pics took me right back to the heart-wrenching emotions of those scenes. I pulled some screen caps from Singularity, but didn't get nearly as many as you did. Yours are wonderful. Please, please post more!

I also loved your comments and critiques - very thoughtful and astute. I agree that Singularity was a great episode for showing the personal side of Sam very effectively - within and as part of the major scifi plot of the episode. I also think this was one of AT's most powerfully acted episodes.

Great reading and great presentation, Uber!
Blue Jello awaits for when you want a respite!

Hi octane blue jello available on special request (it's not kept up front).

[majorsal]

To continue our discussion of which writers seem to do a better job of presenting Sam than others, especially lately, I compiled a list of the writers in seasons 6-8

<snipped>

Season 7

Fallen – RCC
Homecoming – JM, PM
Fragile Balance – DK
Orpheus – PDL
Revisions – JM, PM
Lifeboat – BW
Enemy Mine – PDL
Space Race – DK
Avenger 2.0 – JM, PM
Birthright – CJ
Evolution 1 – DK, Michael Shanks (MS)
Evolution 2 – DK, PDL
Grace – DK
Fallout – JM, PM
Chimera – RCC, DK
Death Knell – PDL
Heroes 1 and 2 - RCC
Resurrection – MS
Inauguration – JM, PM
Lost City 1 and 2 – BW, RCC


It seems to me that in the last few seasons, Joe Mallozi and Paul Mullie have written Sam fairly well, and Brad Wright continues to do so, although he hasn't written many episodes. Damian Kindler did a great job of writing Sam when she actually did have a major concussion. On the other hand, I have to agree that RCC and PDL have managed to turn Sam's personal life into a badly written soap opera.

NC

It seems that my two least fave character pieces (Chimera for Sam and Fragile Balance for Jack) were both written by DK (Damian Kindler). And I remember when I was watching s8's Icon, and didn't know what the heck was going on, I joked with my mom and said, watch it be done by the same guy that did the plot-hole-heavy Chimera... and it was.


Sally

[astrogeologist]

URename the Episode
Metamorphis "My kingdom for a sponge." *cringe*

Metamorphosis - Cleanup on Aisle 5!!!

LOL... and somehow feeling like there's something wrong with me for thinking these titles are funny... still chuckling... but am also wondering if I'm slightly disturbed...

[majorsal]

rename the eps:

Metamorphosis - Cleanup on Aisle 5!!!

You guys are cracking me up!


Sally

[astrogeologist]

"Rename that episode"

How about, "Let's establish our show's token sex-appeal" for Emancipation

(Ok, some might find an *ahem* pattern, in the next few ones, I will refrain myself from adding SEVERAL other eps involving a certain Colonel/General for I am biased in my opinions regarding him...)

For Entity: "Why am I the one who always gets the alien suckers?"

Emancapation again: "Freaky evil dude in love with me..."

FirstCommandement: "Oh no, my ex is dead! "

Enigma: "Random alien guy in love with me..."

TBFTGOF: "AU Sam's husband dead "

Message in a Bottle: Random young dude in love with me...

Tokra part one: "Random Alien Guy in love with me..."

Tokra part two: "Random alien guy still in love with me..."

Out of Mind: "Naked for CO. Not good..." (couldn't resist that one!)

Point of View: AU me's Husband dead

Jolinar's memories/Devil you know: "Freaky evil dude in love with me...is dead "

Pretense: Random guy in love with me shows up again.

Divide in Conquer: Random guy in love with me taken over by evil and dies

2010: Married to random guy in love with me. I die!

Double Jeapordy: Two O'Neills.... hm... (coudln't resist again!)

Ascension: Random guy in love with me. Dies

Between Two Fires: Random guy in love with me pops up again. Dies! (Am starting to see pattern)

2001: meet random guy, who might possibly be in love with me...possibly dies! Damn.

48 Hours: Arrogant scientist attracted to me. Calls me dumb blonde :|

Last Stand: Random guy in love with me NOT dead! No, wait, dies again...

Redemption one and two: Arrogant scientist guy still attracted to me...

The Other Guys: Random scientist possibly in love with me...

Unnateral Selection: Evil random guy possibly in love with me...is caught in crazy time bubble

Smoke and Mirrors: Slight suspicion of feelings from NID man...

Forsaken: Random evil guy in love with me...put in jail, hm, yup, pattern...

Space Race: Random trash guy wants to get with me...almost dies

Avenger 2.0: Random scientest in love with me back. Wonder if he will die...

Chimera: Set-up guy in love with me...

Resurrection: NID Random Guy asks me out...

New Order: Random evil guy definately in love with me...

Affinity: Set-up guy proposes he IS a risk taker...

Gemini: Random Evil guy in love with me pops back. Dies! Why am I still suprised

Spoiler Threads:

Spoiler:

Set-up guy about to marry me. But gets DUMPED! Probably for his own good...

I hope I covered most of them... I'm sure there were more in there somewhere...! But i'm sure you intelligent people got the gist of it *Sarcasm drips from voice*

I started reading this with a smile... and then I was chuckling... and then I was LOL... then it was ROTFL... then ROTFLMAO! Now, I never bought the whole Black Widow Curse thing... I don't think evil bad guys should count.. and neither should it count when a guy is infatuated, but Sam never gets a chance to see if she reciprocates! But... I have to say... your list... is daunting.. funny... but... Oh, Poor Sam! Makes me just want to give her a big hug! (((((Sam)))))!

[astrogeologist]

It's probably off topic to talk about Weir in this thread, but it's hard to avoid comparing her to the other lead female in the Stargate world, Samantha Carter, and she does come up short. I think most of the problem is once again, the way she's been written. I really didn't know what to expect when the show started, but I guess I thought she'd play more of an active role. I read an interview with Torri saying that she often only puts in a couple of days a week. It makes sense in a way, since she's playing Hammond's role, heading up Atlantis, but not going on missions. I'd like to see the writers give her a chance to show what she can do. Give her some funny lines, give her some angst, make us care about her! The writers made us feel involved with all 4 members of SG1 from the first few episodes, and I don't think they've done that with Weir. The last few episodes have made me hope that will change, and maybe the rest of the season will convince me. NC

I think you zeroed in on a big difference between Weir and Sam -- Weir's role is more like that of Hammond's than Carter's. So Weir's character isn't going to get the range that the four of SG-1 got. At least not initially - but that could easily change as the seasons progress.

[majorsal]

let's pick on damien first

I did.

Chimera – RCC, DK - you know, my ONE big issue with this is the huge honkin plot hole that pete fell into. how in the heck did he just happen on the stakeout? have these boys never been to colorado springs? it's not tiny burg, it is a large city. It would be the equivalent of just happening to stumble over the stake out in the middle of new york city.
the need to get pete in the line of fire resulted in a clumsy plot hole,and it's one the character never crawled out of...and that clumsy characterization honestly did more 'harm' to sam than any one of the previous 7 years of sam/jack

How one simple sentence says so much...


Sally

[astrogeologist]

To continue our discussion of which writers seem to do a better job of presenting Sam than others, especially lately, I compiled a list of the writers in seasons 6-8


It seems to me that in the last few seasons, Joe Mallozi and Paul Mullie have written Sam fairly well, and Brad Wright continues to do so, although he hasn't written many episodes.

Damian Kindler did a great job of writing Sam when she actually did have a major concussion.

On the other hand, I have to agree that RCC and PDL have managed to turn Sam's personal life into a badly written soap opera. NC

Thanks for compiling that list of writers, NC!

And I love your statement about Grace (playing off of Skydiver's earlier comment ):
Damian Kindler did a great job of writing Sam when she actually did have a major concussion.

[astrogeologist]

Was thinking about Amanda, and Directing today... decided to post this manip I found ages ago:OOH, and just remembered, got a pic of Amanda's chair ( )when I was on Moebius set... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...tudios2029.jpg

You *must* post more info regarding when you were on the Moebius set!
AgentDark will be by to escort you to the interrogation room.

[astrogeologist]

let's start with a particular writer and how he does sam. Now, let's bear in mind, no personal digs against the writers ok? I certainly don't care for or agree with some of what these boys have done, but we can't cross the line from 'i don't like it' to 'XX blows man!!'

let's pick on damien first: Sky's critiques

so, my opinion on DK writing sam. he CAN do it. however his forte seems to be quirky eps that take our heroes a bit outside of the norm. and quirky can be fun....but he just needs a good beta and someone to point out and close up those irritating little plot holes. as it stands, he's rather inconsistent - something that can be attributed to a hectic writing schedule

Wow! Sky - such great comments and assessments. Very balanced.

Loved reading them - and thanks for posting them! And I think you're correct -- his forte is quirky eps -and quirky can be fun (e.g., Space Race). And, as for the good beta - I think you've hit on something that they all need, but I think you're also right about the time constraints and hectic schedule demands. More time usually makes for a better product, but more time isn't usually available. Sure would have liked for someone to have had a chance to catch a few things in episodes like Threads, though. Stargate now has this 'rich tapestry' of 8-years of episodes and storylines to draw from... but if they don't use it, then they build inconsistencies that really irk the fans. Spoilers for Season 8:

Spoiler:

The reference to an extra 4 years with Jacob makes no sense to me... and I see that some fans are deciding that 'Stargate time' is different from 'our real time'... but I think the writers just... ooopsed... goofed... And not paying respect to how they developed Carter's backstory in Secrets...with her aspirations of becoming an astronaut... I think that was just another detail that was forgotten as they wrote the latest episodes. Just another facet of the character that was sacrificed for their more immediate goals... getting her out of Jack's chain of command.