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GateWorld
February 14th, 2007, 06:04 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s3/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/313.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 29</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s3/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE LAST OF THE TIME LORDS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 2913</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
With the Doctor a helpless prisoner of the Master, it's up to Martha Jones to put into action her friend's last-ditch plan to stop the maniacal new ruler of planet Earth.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s3/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Naonak
June 30th, 2007, 12:55 PM
Aside from the weird guest appearance by Gollum, this was an awesometastic episode!

Seriously, I don't get that. Old Time Lords turn into shrivelled midgets?

Superb performances from everybody involved, particularly, well, all of them. :weiranime42:

The Doctor/Master scenes were amazing. That the Doctor would forgive him after everything he's done! Beautiful, and it says so much about the Doctor. And then begging his nemesis to regenerate... :sheppardanime32:
David Tennant and John Simm were superb.

Aww, I don't want Martha to go...

Jack's the Face of Boe!? Bloody hell! How the hell does he turn into a giant freaking head? (And I'm sure the thunkers enjoyed the chains...)

Admiral Mappalazarou
June 30th, 2007, 12:55 PM
I loved it, very Half Life 2...lol But I didn't want Martha to go!!! I like her as the companion!!!1!!one!!!:cameron:

And the fact that they pulled off a galactica with the 'One Year Later' thing.

Alipeeps
June 30th, 2007, 12:59 PM
Well.. holy c***! Awesome episode. Lots that I didn't expect (though the theories put forward on the The Sound of Drums dicsussion thread about the origins of the Toclafane turned out to be bang on the money). Interesting how they defeated the Master in the end.. and, as ever, David Tennant's acting just blew me away. The scene where the Master died in his arms... awww.. I just wanted to hug him better!

I wasn't overly surprised when Martha chose not to stay with the Dr... though I'll be interested to see how things work out next season as Freema has stated (in this week's Radio Times) that she is definitely not leaving the show at the end of Season 3... apparently she's going to have a reduced role in Season 4, I read somewhere?

I'd love to know how the Doctor fixed the TARDIS though - I do wish they hadn't glossed over that. COnsidering he had permanently fused the circuits, the Master turned it into a paradox machine and then Jack shot the heck out of it.... :S

Oh and last but not least... Jack is the Face of BO??!!!! :eek:

Edit: Forgot to say, I rather liked that the ending was exactly the same as the finale of last season... the Doctor utterly stunned by something appearing in the TARDIS and lost for words other than, "What?!" :D

in circles
June 30th, 2007, 01:01 PM
My god that episode was pants and many other words I can't use here. The Doctor turning into Gollum? everyone in the world thinking about him gives him Jedi powers? that and the Return of the Jedi funeral had me thinking I was watching something else.
By the time Jack mentioned the Face of Boe thing my eyes had rolled so hard I thought they were going to fall out. The giant reset at the end was a total cop out and Martha's exit was the only thing you couldn't spot coming from a mile off.
The only part I liked was the scene when The Master is shot.

Hulabaloo
June 30th, 2007, 01:01 PM
OMG. That was one heck of an episode! I loved it! Face of Boe? Wow! Titanic? Wow! *faint*

Missster.Freeman
June 30th, 2007, 01:02 PM
dum dum dum, dum dum dum dum. Meanwhile on Skybase... The Master takes the Doctor out for a spin. Wheee!

I didn't write anything down beforehand, so all I can say is: that was good!

Oh and WTH! Jack is - might be (my mind is boggling at the minute) the Face of Boe? :eek:

The burning of the Master's body on a pyre was a bit familiar I have to say. Anywho, the finale was fanfraggintastic! :zelenka25:

Madeleine
June 30th, 2007, 01:13 PM
That ep was all over the place, and mostly in a good way :)

The Master died in the Doctor's arms! But was it all a plot? Lucy must've been briefed on what to do if The Doctor ever got the upper hand. Shoot him, let him 'die' and then something to do with that ring.... John Simm was too fabulous for the Master to be totally dead, surely!

Martha is a Legend! (PLEASE let her come back for s4!) Jack is the Face of Bo? Wow.

Gollum in a cage? Mreh. Martha leaving? Booo.

Everyone on Earth thinking "Doctor"? Cheesy, but rather uplifting - no pun intended :D.

rovex
June 30th, 2007, 01:19 PM
I didnt mind the gollem, its clearly meant to be what happens if a time lord gets to old without regenerating. Makes sense really because they are supposed to age.

Brilliant episode, Martha will be back im sure of that.

Jack the face of Bo?! Great!! It all makes sense now, great writing.

Indum'kra
June 30th, 2007, 01:20 PM
So, if Jack's the face of Boe, how did he die in Gridlock? Did he have to give up the power of the timeline within him that was keeping him alive?

Blitz
June 30th, 2007, 01:21 PM
He He He

I approved, the whole "think Doctor and he floats" was a bit...well, odd...but can I point out for all those that said the sun was wrong....

if all they did was look at the final epsiode: well...they were right. She has "left"

And Jack the face of bo? DID NOT see that coming! Nor the fact that the Tardis has well...a "dent" from the Titanic - in Rose wasnt there a story about the Dr being on the Titanic?

Also: I have NO DOUBT that The Master will return, his ring beign picked up and the laugh...HE BEST COME BACK! I would love it - their acting was AMAZING!




OHH ! and as for the x-mas special: Im kind of happy its NOT going to be x-mas...him arriving for EVERY christmas was a bit..bleh

DarkJedi
June 30th, 2007, 01:24 PM
New to Gateworld, but a long-time Doctor Who fan (pre 1989), and I have to say this episode felt like a let-down to me... after the quality of the latter half of this season, this fell a bit flat for me. John Simm was excellent, as he had been in "The Sound of Drums", but the way he was 'taken care of'... bleh. I sincerely hope the old tradition of "the Master never dies" continues (did that sequence with the ring remind anyone of Flash Gordon, btw?)

Martha... she grew on me in the latter half of this season, but not enough to say I'd really miss her. On a final note, the ending was, like last year, suitably odd, yet really amusing at the same time... Roll on December! :)

Wow, what a first Gateworld post... ;)

Billz
June 30th, 2007, 01:26 PM
I have lost ALL respect for RTD and his team. :mad:

Dont get me wrong. The acting was fantastic with the story being mostly brilliant.

But these things really ticked me off:
1. Killing The Master for good. How the bloody hell could the crew of Doctor Who just kill of such an iconic character with a single bullet, after all he and the Doctor have been through?

2. Martha leaving! What the f***!!! Why? Freema was a brilliant actor. She was briging in a new audiance. So why leave the show?!?

3. Im not a Lord Of The Rings fan but what was the point of ripping it off by changing the Doctor into Gollum?!?

4. Jack, The Face Of Boe?!? Lame!

3/10

(So angry :mad::mad::mad: )

Hulabaloo
June 30th, 2007, 01:26 PM
Also: I have NO DOUBT that The Master will return, his ring beign picked up and the laugh...HE BEST COME BACK! I would love it - their acting was AMAZING!

Yes! I totally agree, he'd better still be alive! :D

Madeleine
June 30th, 2007, 01:27 PM
He's alive. What would've been the point of that scene with the red-fingernail hand and the ring, else?

:D:D:D

The Prophet
June 30th, 2007, 01:31 PM
They could bring Christopher Ecclles-Cake back, for the Christmas Special, to play the 9th Doctor Again. As he supposidly was on the Titanic.

Two Doctors thing?

Alipeeps
June 30th, 2007, 01:33 PM
(did that sequence with the ring remind anyone of Flash Gordon, btw?)


Heh. Yup, my husband said that... :D


1. Killing The Master for good. How the bloody hell could the cew of Doctor Who just kill of such an iconic charcter with a single bullet, after all he and the Doctor have been through?

How d'you know he's dead? As Maddy W said, what would be the point/significance of the scene with the ring/his laugh if it wasn't hinting that there is more here than meets the eye...?


2. Martha leaving! What the f***!!! Why? Freema was a brilliant actor. She was briging in a new audiance. So why leave the show?!?

She's not leaving. To quote Freema in this week's Radio Times, "I have categorically not been sacked from Doctor Who. There's no truth in [the rumours] whatsoever and I don't know where they came from. But I'm not permitted to talk about storylines and I can't talk about the next series. I've been gagged and if I do talk about it, then I will be sacked!"

wise one
June 30th, 2007, 01:52 PM
cool episode, didnt like the golum bit, made me laugh when i saw that.

also bloody heck!!! face of boe, jack turns into a giant head, well it all makes sense really.!!!!

i think it was the masters wife that took the time lord rings, who knows what she can do with it.

at the end it, he smashes into the titanic, sounds interesting but i have a question

who remebers the first episode of doctor, 'rose' when rose enters that mans house because he has pictures of the doctor. you can see the picture of the doctor with a family and the man says that he saved a family who were supposed to board the titanic but they didnt thus saving their lives.

well would that cause a problem since it was 2 different time lords one that had been regenerated and would it be mentioned somehow???????

DarkJedi
June 30th, 2007, 01:56 PM
They could bring Christopher Ecclles-Cake back, for the Christmas Special, to play the 9th Doctor Again. As he supposidly was on the Titanic.

It was mentioned in "Rose" that he advised a family not to board that voyage, not necessarily that the 9th Doctor was on the Titanic... though I suppose, anything is possible. :)

iLemon
June 30th, 2007, 02:12 PM
Is Jack ever coming back? Or is Torchwood the series going to continue?

Hulabaloo
June 30th, 2007, 02:12 PM
He's crossing his own timeline. I think.


Is Jack ever coming back? Or is Torchwood the series going to continue?

He'd better. :mad:

DarkJedi
June 30th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Torchwood is going to continue, it's due back on the air early 2008 (well, for UK folks, anyway)

Aerilon
June 30th, 2007, 02:42 PM
Fantastic Episode.


But was it all a plot? Lucy must've been briefed on what to do if The Doctor ever got the upper hand. Shoot him, let him 'die' and then something to do with that ring....You make a good point.

From this, I see two possabilities. Either The Master has somehow been 'stored' in that ring, or Lucy knew something special about it, of which Master had told her, and she plans to use it for some power struggle of her own in some future episode.

Regardless of what will happen, there is something that can follow on from that storyline.
if all they did was look at the final epsiode: well...they were right. She has "left"I guess The Sun weren't *Officially* wrong. Ahem.


And Jack the face of bo? DID NOT see that coming!Neither did I.

I was reading in the Daily Mirror today, that a very big thing comes of Jack. I was actually thinking that he was a Timelord too, though in Human form (had one of them watches somewhere). I didn't expect him to be the Face of Bo, oh no.


Nor the fact that the Tardis has well...a "dent" from the Titanic - in Rose wasnt there a story about the Dr being on the Titanic?
They could bring Christopher Ecclles-Cake back, for the Christmas Special, to play the 9th Doctor Again. As he supposidly was on the Titanic.Ironic really. The Tardis, has Shields and can withstand an attack from a Dalek Fleet, yet can get rammed quite easily, by a Ship.

Weird also, that the Tardis actually has a huge gaping hole in it now. How he is going to fix that one, I do not know :p


She's not leaving. To quote Freema in this week's Radio Times, "I have categorically not been sacked from Doctor Who. There's no truth in [the rumours] whatsoever and I don't know where they came from. But I'm not permitted to talk about storylines and I can't talk about the next series. I've been gagged and if I do talk about it, then I will be sacked!"Likewise, if this is the case, she couldn't have said 'I'm leaving' either. If she has a contract, she can't say much if she is told not to. She wouldn't have been able to say she was going if she wasn't allowed.


Is Jack ever coming back? Or is Torchwood the series going to continue?
Torchwood is going to continue, it's due back on the air early 2008 (well, for UK folks, anyway)As said by DarkJedi, Torchwood is coming back for Season 2 in the UK (soon), so you'll see Jack in that. However, in regards to seeing him on Dr Who again, I wouldn't rule out the possability. The Door has been left open for him ;)

Anubis69
June 30th, 2007, 02:59 PM
Oh my. Fantastic. As the Master was dying... that was some of the greatest acting i've ever seen. Especially The Doctor's moan after he had died. In a way, very heart-wrenching.

I couldn't help but laugh out loud when he was dancing to scissor sisters. It's just not natural.

Gregorius
June 30th, 2007, 03:01 PM
I couldn't help but laugh out loud when he was dancing to scissor sisters. It's just not natural.

But that was such a funny scene :D The Doctor being wheeled around in the wheelchair, etc.. :D

Reefgirl
June 30th, 2007, 03:32 PM
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_bleep.gif me is a good place to start with this little piece


(did that sequence with the ring remind anyone of Flash Gordon, btw?)
Yep, I actually said Ming the Merciless out loud

Did not see Jack as the Face of Boe coming at all but a few niggles, if Jack is the Face of Boe
a) How did 'Boe Kind' come into being
b) How come Boe didn't recognise the Doctor
c) And how did Jack/Boe become telepathic?

And on to the ep, kinda disappointing and a complete mishmash of other TV show's/Films, we've already touched on Flash Gordon but the Funeral Pyre scene came straight from Return of the Jedi, although I haven't seen it, Doctor in a cage did look like Gollum, the flying through the air bit came from the pilot of the Vic and Bob Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased) (which DT was in ironically) and Martha come out of the water dressed in black came straight from James Bond. The scene at the beginning with the dancing annoyed me no end. Did anyone else think 'Davros' when they cracked open the sphere.

Apart from that, it was a good episode, not the best and took an age to really get going but superb acting from DT as usual and from John Simm at the end, he did get on my http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_tit.gifhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_tit.gif for a while during the episode. It was nice to see Clive and Francine make up and I hope Martha gets up the nerve to meet up with Tom Milligan, he'll help her get over the Doctor. If she has left it's going to really http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_bleep.gif up my fic ideas, never mind. If the rumours are true
Kylie's making an appearence in the xmas special
If that's not Lucy pretending to be Ming the Merciless who do we think it is, my money's on The Rani

Matt G
June 30th, 2007, 03:37 PM
OK...

1. The Tochlaphane were Utopia humans, brought back in time by the paradox machine. Good call everyone.

2. You can never outsmart the Doctor. :) Though shrinking him like that was a bit freaky.

3. The man who calls himself Jack Harkness...becomes the Face of Boe! WTF? Not sure why the Doctor disabled his time machine though. It'll be good to see Jack back in Torchwood but why not let the poor guy go back to the 51st century Doctor?

4. OK, exit Martha...ish! I'm sure RTD has his reasons, hopefully they weren't just do do with his team writing themselves into a corner character-wise.

5. "Voyage of the Damned". Involving the Titanic. OK, we'll see what happens.

beale947
June 30th, 2007, 03:56 PM
OK...

1. The Tochlaphane were Utopia humans, brought back in time by the paradox machine. Good call everyone.

2. You can never outsmart the Doctor. :) Though shrinking him like that was a bit freaky.

3. The man who calls himself Jack Harkness...becomes the Face of Boe! WTF? Not sure why the Doctor disabled his time machine though. It'll be good to see Jack back in Torchwood but why not let the poor guy go back to the 51st century Doctor?

4. OK, exit Martha...ish! I'm sure RTD has his reasons, hopefully they weren't just do do with his team writing themselves into a corner character-wise.

5. "Voyage of the Damned". Involving the Titanic. OK, we'll see what happens.

He disabled it so he wouldn't accidentaly cross over his timeline or anything they have done and completely screw up the universe and invoke the wrath of the reapers.

Its was a great episode, but a let down by the quick-fix solution and the cheesey "all think doctor" but I did like how they used arch-angel against him. You can't beat the doctor.

But John Simms plays a happy psychopath very well :P, pushing the doctor around while dancing to the music.

And Jack is the face of Bo:eek: did not expect that, but it explains how the face of Bo knows so much about the doctor, and what he has/will done/do.

But a bit week with the "one year later" and weakish story line. Could have been better.

The Signal
June 30th, 2007, 04:14 PM
The Master died in the Doctor's arms! But was it all a plot? Lucy must've been briefed on what to do if The Doctor ever got the upper hand. Shoot him, let him 'die' and then something to do with that ring.... John Simm was too fabulous for the Master to be totally dead, surely!


My thoughts exactly! :D

A simply brilliant episode, John Simm and David Tennant are unbelievably good on screen together, I mean... damn! As for leaving Martha behind... not so sure about this, but as long as she is at least around in a few episodes next season I'll be happy. Jack is the Face of Boe? :eek: < my face :P

Absolutely fantastic episode, but Blink still just about beats it in my mind

9/10

SazZat
June 30th, 2007, 04:41 PM
Well, this season I have to say that overall I have been disapointed :( The storylines just haven't been as great as the other 2 seasons. So I went into watching the last 2 episodes very cautiously.

The first part of this 2 parter I thought was ok-ish. This part was definitely an improvement. Although it felt that for every good thing that was in it there was something equally cringey and poorly written as well.

Like the fact that a whole season in and Martha is still feeling sorry for herself about the Doctor not fancying her. That is a really a waste of time at this stage in the series. We all know by now how she feels, it doesn't need to be brought up halfway through ever episode at least 5 times :rolleyes:
There were several moments where me and my sister just groaned because it was so painful and cringey to listen to, let alone watch.
I like her the rest of the time, just not when the writers have to make her so damn pathetic. Parts of this episode they actually made her appear as the strong and determined young woman I had expected to see all season, and that pleased me. Shame the little girl with a crush hasn't been deleted from her character yet.

That aside, I thought The Master was absolutely bloody brilliant! The scene between The Master and The Doctor at the end was stunning and very moving. Really loved it. David and John did an excellent job :D
I can't believe The Master is dead for good. They should really try to do more with him. I would be disapointed if they didn't.

I thought Captain Jack was a little underused in both parts. But then OMG the whole Face of Boe thing! Really didn't see that one coming (even though it seems so obvious now). Me and my sister just looked at each other like 'what? what?! oh my god!'. I loved that. As soon as the episode finished that is what I talked about. Forget everything else, this is what mattered to me...yeah.

I think the ending with the Titanic was very cool. That looks like it could be a great story.

I see everyone is mentioning about the Gollum simularity, but did anyone else actually get the urge to shout out 'Spectrum is green' or 'Launch all angels' everytime a shot of Skybase the aircraft-carrier ship thing was shown? I couldn't resist saying it.
It wasn't a case of being simular...More like complete rip off of the design.

Verona
June 30th, 2007, 05:54 PM
Come on! nobody thinks the master is really dead you gotta be kidding,
the only real question is will JS play him again or some one new.
I had mixed feeling about this episode the face of Bo thing was a bit lame,
the shrunken Doctor WHY! and Martha leaving again do not buy it.
Thinking on the Master just now I can see given what happened the age old argument about regeneration into the opposite sex coming, anyone else?

marty2006
June 30th, 2007, 06:22 PM
Well martha will defo be back next series, i thought the jack being the face of boe was fanatastic totally didnt expect it and as for the doctor looking like gollum when he shrunk i thought he looked more like dobbie from the harry potter movies :D

insomniac8400
June 30th, 2007, 06:53 PM
Great episode. Jack being the face of Boe was great. As to the doubters, if a human lives for millions of years and turns into a giant head isn't a little possible he can become telepathic?
I just hope the master is gone though. It would be much cooler if his wife gives birth to a daughter that tracks down the doctor(probably to kill him because she would most likely have been told the doctor killed her father). Then yadda yadda yadda and she ends up travelling with him. The doctor finally gets a companion he can have a family with. That would be a good ending for the show. You could even go so far to say that they have a large family that ends up rebuilding gallifrey. The time lord civilization could return.

ShadowMaat
June 30th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Trying to get over the sheer boggleness of this ep. Wow.

1. The Master isn't dead. We all know that. My thought is this: who says the essence storer thingy has to look like a fob watch? I wonder what would happen if a human took on the essence of a Time Lord... and if that's what Lucy's gonna do.

2. Jack is the Face of Boe. Lords above, it'll probably take a while for the shock to wear off of that one, although I think it's been suggested before. It makes a bizarre sort of sense, I guess, and if Cassandra can become a bit of stretched canvas, why can't Jack be a big giant head in a jar? ;)

3. Martha. NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!! I really really liked her! :( Kudos to her on the whole "get out" thing, but nooooooo! Maybe she'll be sort of like Mickey was- calling in for help when there's trouble and joining the occasional adventure. Or maybe she's just wholly gone and Freema's interview was just to keep a lid on things. :(

4. The Titanic. No crossed paths because the Ninth Doctor didn't get on the Titanic. I also wonder if this is the actual Titanic in 1912 or something a little weirder. I don't pay much attention to the TARDIS control panels- did flipping that switch "land" the TARDIS? Because I was kinda under the impression it was still mid-flight when the ship rammed it. Or is it a case of something random and weird dragging him off-course again? Kinda like last year only in reverse. ;)

5. Jack is the Face of Boe. *boggles* Nope, still not over that.

6. I'll be very interested to see where Torchwood goes from here.

7. The Face of Boe?! Sorry...

Also, is the "theme" used at the end of the ep (during the goodbye scene) used elsewhere in the show? That horn stuff sounded really damn familiar, like I should know it.

EDIT: Oh yes, did anyone else notice that Lucy had a bruised eye? Walked into a door, I'm sure...

EDIT 2: I guess Jack's comment in the Torchwood pilot wasn't facetious at all: as I recall it there was a newsbyte in one of the earlier seasons about the Face of Boe giving birth. ;) Guess he decided it was worth it again after all.

EDIT 3: Would now be a bad time to joke about "One ring to rule them all"? ;)

Mamid
June 30th, 2007, 08:30 PM
if Jack is the face of Bo, where's his body?

Easter Lily
June 30th, 2007, 09:40 PM
Great episode... some nice twists. The Face of Boe revelation was a complete LOL moment. Nice.

I love all the tie-ins from the rest of the season. It does really increase my appreciation for Shakespeare Code and Human Nature.

I'm sure the Master (although maybe not John Simm) will be back.
Very sorry that Martha's leaving but I'm glad, in a way, that she's moving on. No more pining for the Doctor... thank goodness.

Can't wait to see The Voyage of the Damned.

Mamid
June 30th, 2007, 10:30 PM
okay... he might just be the face of Bo...

Theory...

1: When Rose goes to New New York, she has just enough of the Time Vortex power left in her to undo what she did to him without knowing it was Jack she was seeing. Or rather the Tardis did it because the Tardis is a living machine and it could see how Bo was suffering and knew who Bo actually was and decided to undo what was done to him originally.

2: He might not actually be the "Face of Bo." He uses it as a marketing term, like "The Face of Revlon." We hope that he is an Eternal because humanity could do far worse

Even lucy said "Doctor" at the right time. But was that her who grabbed the ring or someone else?

Pitry
June 30th, 2007, 11:11 PM
Mostly hit 'n' miss for me, that one.
The whole Doctor CGI/ascending bit had my rolling my eyes. Not in a good way.
I liked Martha's story, it was great to see all resistance-fighter Martha. But they over-done the Master's evil rule, I'd think (he's not dead. O'course he's not dead! He'd be back - and as John Simm. Mark my words! But he giggled evilly at the end, I was hoping the Master has left this habit behind him.)

The whole sound of drums these feels a bit like "Bad wolf" now. Entertaining, intriguing - and ultimately, useless. Was that the whole point? A metaphore? I hope RTD is still planning on using it in series 4.

Shame, really, to see Martha go - but as I said more than once, I'm not surprised. She was written in a way that is unsustainable for more than one series, and as Martha herself said, she needs to get out. Sparrow & Nightingale for companions, I say!

More shame Jack was hardly present in this one, although.... the Face of Boe?! EEEEEEEEEEEEK! It'll take a while for that to sink in.

Thing is, the episode failed compeltely to get me an emotinoal peak til the Master died in the Doctor's hands. That was heart-breaking, and somewhat compensate for the whoel ascension scene, but yet... I'd have rathered the episode to look more like Doomsday. RTD's strongest bits are when he centres on emotions, not plot....

The obvious reset at the ed, not surprised, good thing he had the sense to not make it a complete reset and all our characters remember it.
Ah, well....

The Titanic crashed into the Tardis?!?! Can't wait to see that!

Willow'sCat
June 30th, 2007, 11:18 PM
I loved this eppy. Didn't understand all of it, and some of it was just naff but as a finale it was pretty much as I thought. How many times do most finales end with the big reset button? ;) I do think it should have had longer to tell it's story, it seemed so rushed. Last week was rushed in a good way but this one just imho ran out of time, so much just happened and we were meant to accept it....

I am hoping that Martha is gone or at least gone in the sense we only see her a couple of times in series 30 (30!!!)/4 for me she was just too annoying in the end, what with the crush, the family (like having Rose without Rose really:rolleyes::rolleyes:) and too immature. Basically I was beginning to really wish The Master had offed her instead of letting her go on & on & on. So paint me happy to see less of her from here on in.

Jack... OK did not pick that! :eek: Great twist, especially loved how it was just put out there almost as an add on. It also explains how Boe did what he did in Gridlock, how he had that kind of power within him. *bummer for Jack*

The Master is obviously not dead, only a moron would buy that... sorry but if the shoe fits. He is going to come back one way or another, just makes sense.

The T.A.R.D.I.S well for me I think the whole "one year back in time" basically made her a tardis again. But Jack had to destroy the Paradox machine before that could happen.

I would have liked to have seen more of The Doctor as normal interacting with The Master, what we got was grotesque and really made me shudder; wonder how the kiddies felt about all of that? :S I wasn't surprised by The Doctor's forgiveness, I wasn't surprised he cradled The Master in his arms and wept... I was surprised he left the god dam body & the ring (infinity ring? I know there was a story around that in classic who but I can't remember). I didn't cry at The Doctor crying but I did shed a tear when the world came together and said his name, honestly it moved me no end. ;)

I am wondering if these events will have any impact on Torchwood. Jack knows what happened but now the rest of Torchwood doesn't, will Jack inform them? Will he take Torchwood down a better road then the one they are currently on... oh please yes!

*shrugs* No this episode was not as great as the previous two, but to me it was a great finale. ;)

Now how the hell does the Titanic crash into a tardis? :S Didn't a sea monster do that once? :p

*six long months to find out*

wise one
June 30th, 2007, 11:47 PM
i think it was the master screwing around with the tardis making it into a paradox machine may have caused some changes to the tardis like having a small paradox still in a wall and that allowed a object to hit the outer tardis into the tardis inside

Alipeeps
July 1st, 2007, 12:24 AM
The T.A.R.D.I.S well for me I think the whole "one year back in time" basically made her a tardis again. But Jack had to destroy the Paradox machine before that could happen.


Not sure about that.... the Doctor said the reset took them back to 8:02, just after the President died but before the spheres appeared. At that point, the TARDIS was mangled and cannabalised by the Master. Also, they were at the eye of the storm, as the Doctor put it, and the time reversal didn't affect them, they remember it all (or did he mean just the people in that room as opposed to the people on the whole carrier?).

Interesting though occured to me there - does that mean all of Freema and family etc are physically one year older than everyone else on Earth? :)

lord-anubis
July 1st, 2007, 12:29 AM
great ep i dident belive for a sec that the master was turly dead any one whos watch the old series should know better then to think hes dead for good.


i not sure i quite understan how the doctor got all the power from every one saying his name. thought it was cool and has some one said earlyer even thou kind of cheesy kind of uplifting.

kind of werid for me with the axons talk i just saw calws of axso a couple days ago. hope im right thats the ep they were talking about or i'll look dumb lol that sceen with the master dieing in the doctors arms was the best part.

:eek: still in shock at the fact that jack could be the face of boe thats how he knew the doctor was not alone. i don't think he well like the fact that in a million or so years he well be a big head in a jar.

i think marthra well be back next season she just takeing a break. im sure she well call the doctor saying theres troble. she did give him her phone so im sure i hope she well be back.

as for the Titanic crashing in to the tarids i kind of new some thing was going to happen but i dident see that coming. i guess there going to end every season with the doctor saying what? can't wait for dec



EDIT: Oh yes, did anyone else notice that Lucy had a bruised eye? Walked into a door, I'm sure...


I did and thats petty much extactly what i said lol

Commander Ivanova
July 1st, 2007, 01:06 AM
Interesting though occured to me there - does that mean all of Freema and family etc are physically one year older than everyone else on Earth? :)

That's how I understood it, yes.
Apart from that, I missed the first 25 mins of this ep so I'm a bit befuddled :S (even more so than usual). Not sure I'm qualified to give an opinion on it yet so will get back to you once I've had a chance to view the tape.

Willow'sCat
July 1st, 2007, 01:12 AM
Not sure about that.... the Doctor said the reset took them back to 8:02, just after the President died but before the spheres appeared. At that point, the TARDIS was mangled and cannabalised by the Master. I was thinking that as time went backwards for the Earth one year; for the T.A.R.D.I.S it could go back further as she is not actually in 'our' time or space, she is well a tardis, she exist outside time and space... time is relative to her... or something....

I think. :S:P

Hulabaloo
July 1st, 2007, 01:27 AM
Great episode. Jack being the face of Boe was great. As to the doubters, if a human lives for millions of years and turns into a giant head isn't a little possible he can become telepathic?
I just hope the master is gone though. It would be much cooler if his wife gives birth to a daughter that tracks down the doctor(probably to kill him because she would most likely have been told the doctor killed her father). Then yadda yadda yadda and she ends up travelling with him. The doctor finally gets a companion he can have a family with. That would be a good ending for the show. You could even go so far to say that they have a large family that ends up rebuilding gallifrey. The time lord civilization could return.

Dammit! That was my idea for a fanfic! You read my mind!

None of you saw this!! Okay?

Oh and, I don't think the Master's dead. I just hope John Simm plays him again. Please.

Willow'sCat
July 1st, 2007, 01:55 AM
Great episode. Jack being the face of Boe was great. As to the doubters, if a human lives for millions of years and turns into a giant head isn't a little possible he can become telepathic?
Of course he could. And it is scifi. Lets not get too bogged down in the WTF of it all. :P Oh and technically is Jack human? Was that ever properly cleared up? :S

*my head hurts* :D

Pitry
July 1st, 2007, 01:56 AM
Actually, Martha is more than a year older than she's supposed to be - she also travelled outside of her time witht he Doctor before this entire business.

Willow'sCat
July 1st, 2007, 02:05 AM
LOL! *poor* Jack all worried about a few grey hairs... he would probably die of a heart attack if he knew he was the face of Boe... not that it would matter as he would just come back to life! :p :D

Hulabaloo
July 1st, 2007, 02:11 AM
LOL! *poor* Jack all worried about a few grey hairs... he would probably die of a heart attack if he knew he was the face of Boe... not that it would matter as he would just come back to life! :p :D

So, did the Face of Bo definitely die? I mean, at the time the Doctor didn't know it was Jack. So he could of come back again... Or is there definite proof he is dead?

Willow'sCat
July 1st, 2007, 02:26 AM
So, did the Face of Bo definitely die? I mean, at the time the Doctor didn't know it was Jack. So he could of come back again... Or is there definite proof he is dead?I don't know it is scifi and NO ONE EVER... whatever. :rolleyes:

I think the cat-nurse said he was dead and she stayed with him, anyway I imagine eventually his brain would wear out no matter how much immortality he had, but I do think the energy he used in Gridlock was the remaining energy he had from the heart of the T.A.R.D.I.S. Once that was depleted he probably just died of old *really old* age. :cool:

God that is so depressing! Yes I know he saved people but... *poor Jack* :( At least he was with The Doctor in the end. Now that cheers me up! :D

Naonak
July 1st, 2007, 02:34 AM
b) How come Boe didn't recognise the Doctor?
Who says he didn't? ;)

Willow'sCat
July 1st, 2007, 02:43 AM
Who says he didn't? ;)That is what I am thinking, either that or he no longer knew or remembered when he was Jack Harkness, Jack was a distant memory *if you will* best left in the past.;)

See, now I am depressed again. :( It's all a bit too deep for me. :p

Reefgirl
July 1st, 2007, 03:15 AM
That is what I am thinking, either that or he no longer knew or remembered when he was Jack Harkness, Jack was a distant memory *if you will* best left in the past.;)
As long as we still have memories of a dirty Jack chained to the wall, who cares *Drool*

Admiral Mappalazarou
July 1st, 2007, 03:44 AM
I have lost ALL respect for RTD and his team. :mad:

Dont get me wrong. The acting was fantastic with the story being mostly brilliant.

But these things really ticked me off:
1. Killing The Master for good. How the bloody hell could the crew of Doctor Who just kill of such an iconic character with a single bullet, after all he and the Doctor have been through?



You did see the scene where Lucy picked up the ring, right? Meaning that the Master's coming back, probably at the end of next season (like the daleks turned up in Army of Ghosts)

BruTak
July 1st, 2007, 04:12 AM
8/10 from me.

What, exactly, was the point of the CGI Doctor/Gollum/Dobby? Apart from the guys at Mill FX showing off...

The revelation of the true identity of the Face of Boe - HOLY FRAK! I did not see that coming...

As for who picked up the Master's ring (oo-er missus)... Not Lucy Saxon, sorry - the fingers are too big.

And that ending? "What?!?"
Even before the Doctor picked up the lifebelt, I knew it was the Titanic - the shape of its bow is unmistakable.

I could be wrong here, but I think I spotted next years Bad Wolf/Torchwood/Mr. Saxon thingy...

Martha is NOT leaving. In a brief piece in the current Radio Times, she states (and I am quoting verbatim from the article) "I have categorically not been sacked from Doctor Who." states Freema Agyeman, dispelling recent tabloid rumours. "There's no truth in them whatsoever and I don't know where they came from. But I'm not permitted to talk about storylines and I can't talk about the next series. I've been gagged and if I do talk about it, then I will be sacked!"

spirited Chihiro
July 1st, 2007, 04:23 AM
I realise she isnt leaving however i dont want her to have a reduced role as another rumour (which i hope it just is) suggests...

Blitz
July 1st, 2007, 04:25 AM
I didnt really get a good look, but when Martha rang the Doc guy - was there anything written on the board behind him?

Thats where I thougth the bad wolf/torchwood/saxon bit might of been - only clicked too look after i blinked and it went...

BruTak
July 1st, 2007, 04:28 AM
I didnt really get a good look, but when Martha rang the Doc guy - was there anything written on the board behind him?

Ok, this is only from memory, but it looked to me to be a standard hospital day planner whiteboard thingy.

Reefgirl
July 1st, 2007, 05:22 AM
The revelation of the true identity of the Face of Boe - HOLY FRAK! I did not see that coming...
You and the rest of the world


As for who picked up the Master's ring (oo-er missus)... Not Lucy Saxon, sorry - the fingers are too big.
My money's on
The Rani, maybe Lucy is the Rani


And that ending? "What?!?"
Even before the Doctor picked up the lifebelt, I knew it was the Titanic - the shape of its bow is unmistakable.
Yep, same here (I do live near Titanic's home port)

I could be wrong here, but I think I spotted next years Bad Wolf/Torchwood/Mr. Saxon thingy...
Throw us a bone here http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_grovel.gif

BruTak
July 1st, 2007, 06:24 AM
Well, remember the scene where Prof. Docherty had the disabled Toclafane on the workbench?

There was a copy of Romeo & Julietamong the tools and whatnot. It just kind of jumped out at me as being somewhat out of place...

Reefgirl
July 1st, 2007, 06:30 AM
It's worth a look in Voyage of the Dammned

ShadowMaat
July 1st, 2007, 06:42 AM
Saw the copy of R&R. ;)

And if that wasn't Lucy picking up the ring, maybe it was The Master himself. Gods help us all if he's a woman this time around. ;)

I think the Face of Boe remembers being Jack, but he'd run a major risk of polluting the time line if he revealed anything. It'd suck to go through all that only to get stuck in a paradox. However, I do wonder why the Doctor never sensed any "wrongness" about Boe. Unless he did and conveniently never mentioned it.

Considering that the cat nurse in New New Earth said flat out "[the Face of Boe] is dying", I think it's pretty safe to wager that he really did die in Gridlock.

Anyway, I like the idea of the drums thing being the hint of the new catchphrase for the upcoming season, but I think it's too obvious- too big a deal was made out of it where usually it's only a passing (and forgettable) reference.

iLemon
July 1st, 2007, 07:39 AM
That is what I am thinking, either that or he no longer knew or remembered when he was Jack Harkness, Jack was a distant memory *if you will* best left in the past.;)

See, now I am depressed again. :( It's all a bit too deep for me. :p
I'm sure he remembers being Jack Harkness and remembers the Doctor himself, how else could he tell the Doctor that he's not alone?

Cycrow
July 1st, 2007, 07:50 AM
Ironic really. The Tardis, has Shields and can withstand an attack from a Dalek Fleet, yet can get rammed quite easily, by a Ship.

actually the tardis doesn't have shields. The shields were generated by the device they picked up in cardif, cant remember its name

corcon13
July 1st, 2007, 09:37 AM
:jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07:
Is Jack ever coming back? Or is Torchwood the series going to continue?

Torchwood will return to BBC 2 not 3 in 2008. I believe that that will be Jack's last appearance in Doctor Who (he got the answers he was looking for). On another note, at the end, a woman's hand and a woman's evil laugh with apperant knowledge of time lord's - the Rani's comin' to town. :jack_new_anime07:

ShadowMaat
July 1st, 2007, 09:56 AM
I read that Torchwood isn't coming back until next year. *sigh*

Madeleine
July 1st, 2007, 11:53 AM
Watched it again.

That whole gun thing with the four chemicals was well naff - I was so relieved when it turned out to be a scam :o :)

I think the reason that the Doctor never sensed anything 'wrong' about the Face of Boe was because Boe was just... Boe. A weird old alien. Jack, on the other hand, well, the Doctor had the original template to compare the new version with, and he knew that Jack wasn't a normal human any more. He probably didn't know what 'normal for Boe' was.

As for how Jack gained telepathy, that could've happenned at any time in his billions of years. He was probably only forty or so when he became immortal, and if you can get immortality in forty years who's to say what you can achieve in billions? ;)

I'm worried about Martha. No, FA wasn't sacked, but did she start with a one-year contract? In which case no sacking required to oust Martha :(

At least we've still got DT.

Pitry
July 1st, 2007, 02:21 PM
Also rewatched it, and reached the conclusion that apartn from the two parts that realy bothered me - i.e Gollum Doctor and his ascension, it was a brilliant episode. And I really love the way Martha's been written there.
Hopefully she'll be seen a lot in series 4 - the thing about the press statements, "not being sacked" does not equal "staying on the show".
But I'm hoping...

mburrows
July 1st, 2007, 05:21 PM
i think that the finale was fantastic, except for a few parts, but, i do believe that it makes perfect sense for jack to be the face of bo, because how else would the face of bo know that there was another timelord...i think the master dieing forever(if that is truely what is happening)is one of the stupidest things ever...but i believe he'll come back somehow...


now, everyone doesnt seem to understand the whole ring thing...a friend of mine things the only possible reason for that is this...the rani...i agreed, for those who do not know who the rani is: here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_%28Doctor_Who%29)


all in all...8 out of 10 imo

Jonzey
July 1st, 2007, 06:28 PM
I liked it. Started off a bit iffy, but by the end all wrapped up well. Also there were loads of surprises- I didnt think Martha would leave, I was sure she'd change her mind. I was sure the Master would escape, though his wife is still an iffy character and something makes me feel theres more than meets the eye. Ol' Cap'n Boe was a major surprise, which I'm kinda ambivalant about right now.

I wont know how to feel about the Master thing til I see where theyre going with it. I kinda don't like Martha leaving cos she is a good character, but I kinda do cos it means maybe we'll get Sally instead.

But cudos to the writing team for mixing things up a little and not being too afraid to change things (unlike another show I know!), and I like how the second half of the season has been more heavily linked, rather than standalone stuff.

lord-anubis
July 1st, 2007, 09:19 PM
now, everyone doesnt seem to understand the whole ring thing...a friend of mine things the only possible reason for that is this...the rani...i agreed, for those who do not know who the rani is: here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_%28Doctor_Who%29)


all in all...8 out of 10 imo

i thought that at first in fact i said out loud when i heard that laugh The rani cuz i for got lucy was wearing red nail poish. it would be cool if it was her i don't think it is but RTD did say it hand of the rani and also that they won't be picking up on it next season in the audio comentery

Willow'sCat
July 1st, 2007, 10:24 PM
I hope it isn't the Rani, she is one of the weakest 'villains' ever.

Also for those who think it couldn't have been Lucy... why not? The nail polish was the same, she had motive for wanting to make sure he was dead *she shot him after all* and the taking of the ring could have been about 'something' she knows about it or just to have some kind of weird souvenir.

Lucy makes sense the Rani does not, I mean she is a TimeLord/Lady the whole 'you are not alone' is going to be really stupid if they bring her back as well. One other TimeLord I can believe but two... next people will be saying Lucy is Romana! :eek::rolleyes:

Hulabaloo
July 1st, 2007, 11:37 PM
If it is the Rani, there could be a love interest there. But at least its another Time Lord.

However, RTD wouldn't kill the Master, because the Master is a big DW thing. He can't just kill a long time bad guy off a tv series that has been running for (taking a guess) 40 years? He just...can't.

Madeleine
July 2nd, 2007, 01:22 AM
I still don't like the dobby/gollum thing, but it makes a bit more sens now that Mr W has pointed out that there's a sort of precedent - not for Time Lords to shrink but for The Master to shrink people. Didn't he shrink Teegan's auntie or something?

BruTak
July 2nd, 2007, 01:30 AM
Yeah, Tegan's aunt and a passing motorcycle cop as well...

Willow'sCat
July 2nd, 2007, 01:36 AM
Yeah, Tegan's aunt and a passing motorcycle cop as well...It wasn't the same but then SFX have changed... I guess if they had the tech back then it would have looked the same. It was more Land of the Giants then LotR. :P

BruTak
July 2nd, 2007, 01:42 AM
Strictly speaking, the Master's Tissue Compression Eliminator was purely and simply a weapon - the sole purpose of which was to kill people by compressing their body tissue.

Wheras the Sonic Screwdriver and Laser Screwdriver-thingy are more like the Time Lord equivalent of a Swiss Army Knife.

Willow'sCat
July 2nd, 2007, 01:47 AM
Strictly speaking, the Master's Tissue Compression Eliminator was purely and simply a weapon - the sole purpose of which was to kill people by compressing their body tissue.Yeah that whole death thing does make them different, and the whole point of aging The Doctor was revenge... and just because he could.

I do not see the two as the same, and in no way makes what he did in LotTL a continuation of canon. I was just saying if the SFX had of been available back in the day then they may well have looked the same instead of looking like rejects from LotG. ;)

btw it wasn't the laser that made him age it was the adaptation of it into the same tech as the Lazarus machine that did that.

Reefgirl
July 2nd, 2007, 01:53 AM
If the Sonic Screwdriver is a 'Timelord Swiss Army Knife' isn't it possible he added the Tissue compressor to it

Madeleine
July 2nd, 2007, 02:01 AM
Listening to the commentary.... The script for LotTL was written before Gridlock was filmed. So RTD added the words "old friend" to the dialogue between FoB and the Doctor. I'm glad.

Also spoilers for Martha post s3: RTD says Martha has an exciting onscreen future :)

Reefgirl
July 2nd, 2007, 04:10 AM
Is it true
She may turn up in Torchwood?

BruTak
July 2nd, 2007, 04:15 AM
Is it true
She may turn up in Torchwood?

So it would appear, yes.

Oh and Martha and Ianto have got to do the old "No relation" gag.:D

charlie shakey
July 2nd, 2007, 04:57 AM
Fantastic Episode.

You make a good point.

From this, I see two possabilities. Either The Master has somehow been 'stored' in that ring, or Lucy knew something special about it, of which Master had told her, and she plans to use it for some power struggle of her own in some future episode.

Regardless of what will happen, there is something that can follow on from that storyline.I guess The Sun weren't *Officially* wrong. Ahem.

Neither did I.

I was reading in the Daily Mirror today, that a very big thing comes of Jack. I was actually thinking that he was a Timelord too, though in Human form (had one of them watches somewhere). I didn't expect him to be the Face of Bo, oh no.

Ironic really. The Tardis, has Shields and can withstand an attack from a Dalek Fleet, yet can get rammed quite easily, by a Ship.

Weird also, that the Tardis actually has a huge gaping hole in it now. How he is going to fix that one, I do not know :p

Likewise, if this is the case, she couldn't have said 'I'm leaving' either. If she has a contract, she can't say much if she is told not to. She wouldn't have been able to say she was going if she wasn't allowed.

As said by DarkJedi, Torchwood is coming back for Season 2 in the UK (soon), so you'll see Jack in that. However, in regards to seeing him on Dr Who again, I wouldn't rule out the possability. The Door has been left open for him ;)

Maybe The Master will do what he did in the Doctor Who Tv Movie where he turned into black liquid and took over someone else's body?

As for the TARDIS, well its been said a few times that its a living organism meaning that it could repair itself as the reason is to why Martha said in The Sound Of Drums when it was turned into a Paradox Machine that it looks "sick". So thats why they didnt need to show how the TARDIS went back to normal after the Paradox machine was destroyed by Capt. Jack Harkness.

Martha will definitely be back in Season 4 maybe in the Christmas Special otherwise what was the point of giving The Doctor here Super Mobile?

As for Torchwood, well its definitely coming back soon.

As for the reason Capt. Jack Harkness is the Face Of Bo, well think about it, it would explain how he can teleport and how he lived for ages knowing everything bout the Doctor and also explains Gridlock when the Face Of Bo/Jack states that The Doctor isnt alone is because he can remember The Master on The Valiant. All I can say is dat i can't wait for Season 4!!!!

Othere
July 2nd, 2007, 05:15 AM
I have lost ALL respect for RTD and his team. :mad:

Dont get me wrong. The acting was fantastic with the story being mostly brilliant.

But these things really ticked me off:
1. Killing The Master for good. How the bloody hell could the crew of Doctor Who just kill of such an iconic character with a single bullet, after all he and the Doctor have been through?

2. Martha leaving! What the f***!!! Why? Freema was a brilliant actor. She was briging in a new audiance. So why leave the show?!?

3. Im not a Lord Of The Rings fan but what was the point of ripping it off by changing the Doctor into Gollum?!?

4. Jack, The Face Of Boe?!? Lame!

3/10

(So angry :mad::mad::mad: )

Didn't like the story line that much - it was ok, but please dont let RTD write anymore - though I will admit that this is one of the better story lines. Steven Moffat is a much better writer.
The whole thing with the Toclafane reminded me of the season finale of Season 2 with the cybermen.
Shame the Ewoks weren't invited to the Funeral, mini death stars aren't a viable option and the Master regenerates as Servalan :)

Othere
July 2nd, 2007, 05:19 AM
Martha will definitely be back in Season 4 maybe in the Christmas Special otherwise what was the point of giving The Doctor here Super Mobile?

BBC reports today:
Doctor Who is to have a new companion when the drama returns - but there will still be room for his current co-star.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6260374.stm

Warning - may contain very slight Torchwood/Dr Who spoliers.

Pitry
July 2nd, 2007, 08:18 AM
Wheras the Sonic Screwdriver and Laser Screwdriver-thingy are more like the Time Lord equivalent of a Swiss Army Knife.

...only in MacGyver's hands :P

Reefgirl
July 2nd, 2007, 08:51 AM
So it would appear, yes.

Oh and Martha and Ianto have got to do the old "No relation" gag.:D
That might be worth watching the second series for.

Any rumours flying as to who the new companion might be?

BruTak
July 2nd, 2007, 09:01 AM
Nothing official yet. But the Sun speculates that actor Tom Ellis (Dr. Tom Milligan in "Last of the Time Lords") is in the frame.

Personally, I'd like to see the new companion be someone that the Doctor meets during the course of the Christmas Special "Voyage of the Damned".

Pitry
July 2nd, 2007, 09:02 AM
That might be worth watching the second series for.

Any rumours flying as to who the new companion might be?

Just rumopurs, but someone claimed Muilligan from the episode. Doubt it tho. but apparently the Christmas Special companion has been confirmed...
And it is Kylie Minogue after all, depsite RTD lying (again) and saying it isn't :)

BruTak
July 2nd, 2007, 09:06 AM
Just rumopurs, but someone claimed Muilligan from the episode. Doubt it tho. but apparently the Christmas Special companion has been confirmed...
And it is Kylie Minogue after all, depsite RTD lying (again) and saying it isn't :)

Oh, good God in Govan NO!

Enough with the celebrity appearances! What do they think this is? 60's Batman?

Hulabaloo
July 2nd, 2007, 10:06 AM
Oh God. I'll still watch it though. As for the

New companion, someone should start a Speculation thread.

lord-anubis
July 2nd, 2007, 10:31 AM
I hope it isn't the Rani, she is one of the weakest 'villains' ever.

Also for those who think it couldn't have been Lucy... why not? The nail polish was the same, she had motive for wanting to make sure he was dead *she shot him after all* and the taking of the ring could have been about 'something' she knows about it or just to have some kind of weird souvenir.

Lucy makes sense the Rani does not, I mean she is a TimeLord/Lady the whole 'you are not alone' is going to be really stupid if they bring her back as well. One other TimeLord I can believe but two... next people will be saying Lucy is Romana! :eek::rolleyes:

well the reason why i think it might not be lucy is they just showed a hand. if it was lucy why not just show her picking up the ring insed of just a hand. also i think it unlikey master had a plan in case he failed knowing him he problu dident think he would fail. all thou im not saying it wasten lucy im just saying it might not be her.

as for the rani if the master could hide from the doctor a escape the time war why couldent she and other time lords have. also there still are some other renagde time lords that could have lived. draxs,medding monk the time lords never seemed that brave to me. some thing tells me when it looked like they were going to lose the time war some would have escaped or tryed to.

Hulabaloo
July 2nd, 2007, 10:34 AM
The hand that picked up the ring had red painted nails. Lucy had red painted nails. That's why many people made the connection, including me. I still think its Lucy though.

BruTak
July 2nd, 2007, 10:41 AM
The hand that picked up the ring had red painted nails. Lucy had red painted nails. That's why many people made the connection, including me. I still think its Lucy though.

Nope, nope, nope. Gonna have to disagree with you there.

IMO, the hands that picked up the ring (oo-er missus, fnarr-fnarr) were too big to have been Lucy's.

singing tok'ra
July 2nd, 2007, 11:00 AM
^ Haha!

so what do you think about Martha leaving? btw, did you hear that there could be 2 assistants?!?!

*nodnod*

Pitry
July 2nd, 2007, 11:07 AM
No, it really did look like Lucy's hand. Why the red nail polish if not?

Sally Sparrow for companion! *starts campaign*

BruTak
July 2nd, 2007, 11:13 AM
No, it really did look like Lucy's hand. Why the red nail polish if not?

Never mind the nail polish! Forget the nail polish! All the nail polish proves is that a woman has the Master's ring.

Which part of "the hands are too big to be Lucy's" do you fail to comprehend?

Pitry
July 2nd, 2007, 11:15 AM
Never mind the nail polish! Forget the nail polish! All the nail polish proves is that a woman has the Master's ring.

Which part of "the hands are too big to be Lucy's" do you fail to comprehend?

Te part where they weren't erally :P

(well, ti could be a transvestite!Nail polish means nothing! Nothing I say! :P)

Anubis69
July 2nd, 2007, 11:31 AM
Te part where they weren't erally :P

(well, ti could be a transvestite!Nail polish means nothing! Nothing I say! :P)
Or a goth. A really ... confused goth.

Pitry
July 2nd, 2007, 12:00 PM
Or a goth. A really ... confused goth.

Quite.
Could be a gothic vampire! :D

ShadowMaat
July 2nd, 2007, 01:10 PM
A colorblind goth vampire. She thought it was black when she put it on. :P

Hulabaloo
July 2nd, 2007, 01:15 PM
Oh god, where is this thread going? :D

To resolve this, we need caps...

Reefgirl
July 2nd, 2007, 01:34 PM
If we're going for transvestite Rani/Lucy/Ming the Mericless I vote for Eddie Izzard. Where have I seen Tom Ellis before? anyone fill me in?

As for him being a companion
I think he becomes Martha's boyfrind and joins her in the tardi for a couple of episodes, that's just my opinion

I' like to see Sally as a companion or even Novice Hame

BruTak
July 2nd, 2007, 01:38 PM
Tom Ellis has appeared in - among other things - Eastenders and the Catherine Tate Show.

Anubis69
July 2nd, 2007, 03:40 PM
A colorblind goth vampire. She thought it was black when she put it on. :P
A colourblind, grave-robbing vampire goth.

... Just your average goth then?

I kid, I kid!

Mamid
July 2nd, 2007, 10:57 PM
Strictly speaking, the Master's Tissue Compression Eliminator was purely and simply a weapon - the sole purpose of which was to kill people by compressing their body tissue.

Wheras the Sonic Screwdriver and Laser Screwdriver-thingy are more like the Time Lord equivalent of a Swiss Army Knife.
...only in MacGyver's hands :P
I had the same feeling... that the Sonic Screwdriver was nothing more than a MacGyver in a glowy wimby stick.:lol:


Never mind the nail polish! Forget the nail polish! All the nail polish proves is that a woman has the Master's ring.

Which part of "the hands are too big to be Lucy's" do you fail to comprehend?
How about Ms. Osborne? She was in episode 12 doing a cameo... :indeed:

wise one
July 3rd, 2007, 03:03 AM
maybe the boe kind were actually jack going around making love to humans, aliens, robots and spirit creatures and giving them some of his immortality and so some time they evolved in to the big heads or similar but they all died out cos they wasnt the real thing, they had a sample of jacks life but jack was the real deal and lived out his life..

crazy i know

BruTak
July 3rd, 2007, 06:47 AM
How about Ms. Osborne? She was in episode 12 doing a cameo... :indeed:

Egad! Sharon Osbourne as an evil Time Lady? That would work. :D

docballen
July 3rd, 2007, 12:24 PM
Sharon Osbourne could play the Rani!!!!!

(Except, of course, they'd have to *bleep* her dialogue.)

Reefgirl
July 3rd, 2007, 02:36 PM
Sod Sharon Osbourne, bring on Ozzy as the Master reborn :lol:

docballen
July 4th, 2007, 12:40 PM
I'm American, and I have a question that I need answered.

What is "mashed swede"????

BruTak
July 4th, 2007, 12:42 PM
I'm American, and I have a question that I need answered.

What is "mashed swede"????

A swede is a vegetable similar to a turnip.

Missster.Freeman
July 4th, 2007, 12:48 PM
edit: ^Are they the same thing, BruTak? I can never tell the difference. :S


I'm American, and I have a question that I need answered.

What is "mashed swede"????Mashed swede is, mashed swede, or as we call them in Scotland, 'neeps. Why do you want to know this? :D Was there a reference in the episode?

They are turnips crushed down by a potato masher to a consistency like mashed potatoes.

docballen
July 4th, 2007, 12:56 PM
edit: ^Are they the same thing, BruTak? I can never tell the difference. :S

Mashed swede is, mashed swede, or as we call them in Scotland, 'neeps. Why do you want to know this? :D Was there a reference in the episode?

They are turnips crushed down by a potato masher to a consistency like mashed potatoes.

Yes. Jack is all chained to the wall. Tish brings in his food and starts to feed him-- I think he makes the comment "couldn't they bring me something other than mashed swede?"

We don't have anything that we call "mashed swede" here in the USA. We'd call it mashed turnips... if we ate anything like that.

(And "grits" are like a runny polenta... corn meal mush...and they are a "Southern" delicacy. Where I live you don't eat them regularly... unless you get them at a restaraunt.)

BruTak
July 4th, 2007, 01:00 PM
What you have to consider, is that John Barrowman was born in Glasgow.

Missster.Freeman
July 4th, 2007, 01:07 PM
Ah, I see. I didn't remember Jack saying that. I was distracted a few times during the finale. If I ask for turnips and potatoes, I say, neeps n tatties - served with haggis. Do we call them "Swedes" up here, Bru? I thought it was more of an English term.

It's amazing how so many references are lost in translation between our countries. I've always wondered what Grits were. I know they were usually served in the South, but I had no idea what they consisted of.

BruTak
July 4th, 2007, 01:13 PM
Ah, I see. I didn't remember Jack saying that. I was distracted a few times during the finale. If I ask for turnips and potatoes, I say, neeps n tatties - served with haggis. Do we call them "Swedes" up here, Bru? I thought it was more of an English term.

It's amazing how so many references are lost in translation between our countries. I've always wondered what Grits were. I know they were usually served in the South, but I had no idea what they consisted of.

I think it's more a regional thing Mister F. Like the ol' "salt n' vinegar", "salt n' sauce" thing.

As for Grits... Some manner of fried potato product?

Reefgirl
July 4th, 2007, 02:33 PM
Having worked for the Scot's Guards I'm still in the habit of calling them Neeps and I'm English

BruTak
July 4th, 2007, 02:40 PM
Tumshie is another fine Scottish word meaning a turnip.

Easter Lily
July 4th, 2007, 07:59 PM
i think that the finale was fantastic, except for a few parts, but, i do believe that it makes perfect sense for jack to be the face of bo, because how else would the face of bo know that there was another timelord...i think the master dieing forever(if that is truely what is happening)is one of the stupidest things ever...but i believe he'll come back somehow...


I think its delicious irony to consider that Jack is the Face of Boe. A modern Apollo (alien?), somewhat narcissistic, changing over the years to become more like Jabba the Hutt's slightly more attractive cousin. It's wicked.

ShadowMaat
July 4th, 2007, 08:18 PM
I never considered Boe fat or bloated, I just figured he was very large (as in giant, not heavy). Maybe after all those years Jack's head finally swelled to suit his ego. :P

Elinor
July 5th, 2007, 11:03 PM
I'm late to the party and see you've all been talking about mashed swede!! Hee hee!

Anyway, just got around to watching this episode. Cap'n Jack is 'The Face of Bo'??!!

Well, that has gone straight to the top of my 'TV moments that make me go "WOW!! I NEVER saw that coming" list!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-020.gif

docballen
July 5th, 2007, 11:44 PM
As for Grits... Some manner of fried potato product?


Grits is a Southern "delicacy"-- runny polenta, or better known as corn meal mush. As I said before, they don't serve them much where I live-- unless they like "country" food (greens, grits, salt pork, etc.) Some restaraunts serve them-- most notably one called "Cracker Barrel" where they have a store in front and "old country home cooking" in the diner.

(A place where they'd serve biscuits and gravy with grits for breakfast, maybe ham or fried chicken for dinner. )

Grits aren't served sweet, I don't think. (I eat mine with butter on... when I'm forced to eat them. I'd rather eat oatmeal.)

...and since Captain Jack is supposed to be American, you'd think The Master would have thought it "funny" to feed him grits. But I think mashed swede sounds absolutely awful. (And I like turnips... with peas and carrots...)

Reefgirl
July 6th, 2007, 12:02 AM
(A place where they'd serve biscuits and gravy with grits for breakfast)
That was something I could never get my head round in America, scones eaten with gravy and not butter and jam


...and since Captain Jack is supposed to be American, you'd think The Master would have thought it "funny" to feed him grits. But I think mashed swede sounds absolutely awful. (And I like turnips... with peas and carrots...)

Probabaly because no-one in Britain would know what grits are, most know mashed swede is disgusting

BruTak
July 6th, 2007, 12:18 AM
We don't know that Captain Jack is American. All we know is that he's from the "Boeshanna Peninsula" wherever that is.
John Barrowman was born in Glasgow, and hold join UK/US nationality.

Anyway, it occurs to me that RTD and the team missed a trick with "LotTL" - when the Doctor is being revived by the positive thoughts of the whole world, the music should have been the Popeye theme. :D

Mamid
July 6th, 2007, 12:23 AM
he's lived through about 100 years. He probably tasted a lot of food from a lot of different sources.

P-90_177
July 6th, 2007, 04:41 AM
Well i think i'm late to the party here but i gotta say WOW!!! great episode. The whole toclaphane being from utopia was a bit predictable but i liked how the paradox machine came into it and even how the master felt he was doing them a favour even if it was in a very twisted way. I'm also glad that martha and her family remember all those events. it makes for a lot of character development. I was starting to hink that martha was turning into another rose but hopefullly next season she'll be a bit harder and a bit more experienced. She definately seemed darker in that episode esspicially when she faced down the master.

The idea about deceiving that master was great. didn't see it coming. Nor did i see the way the doctor returned back to normal though i gotta admit it was all a bit harry potter but in a very fun way. Speaking of harry pottter i know a lot of people have said that the doctor looked a lot like gollum in this ep but personally i'd say he was closer to dobby the house elf. he even sounded like him.

It's seems natural that a timelords life cycle would be like that too cos it explains more about why they would want to regenerate in the first place which is good.

The killing of the master i thought was done in a good way and the bit with the doctor crying over the master trying to tell him to regenerate was very touching. of course i get the feeling he'll be back. The master is always back though i hope that some how it will be john simm playing him again. Maybe clone him using trhe ring. still you never know.

Martha leaving was very sad but also expected and i felt that it suited her character very well.

I hear freema is going to be in both torchwood and doctor who next year which should be fun.........of course cathrine tate is also back in who as donna which may not be quite as good.

I can't wait to the christmas special. I loved how they ended it the same way but with the added, more serious 'what?' at the end. I think he's got a bit of redecorating to do. god knows how he'll fix that wall.

With just a tiny bit o luck chris ecclston will be in the christmas special too but i doubt it. still there's always hope.

One thing is certain.................The master will return............*dumdumdumdum dumdumdumdum dumdumdumdum*

Madeleine
July 6th, 2007, 01:09 PM
Watching it again, I'm finding one aspect of it bleak beyond imagining: the spheres end up trapped at the end of the Universe. And that's the future of humanity, the ultimate destiny of humanity: the Master has led them to be mechanical soulless monsters, with no future or hope or dignity or kindness, alone in a dying universe.

:(

I hope something more positive ends up happenning with respect to that in a future ep.

P-90_177
July 7th, 2007, 05:41 AM
Watching it again, I'm finding one aspect of it bleak beyond imagining: the spheres end up trapped at the end of the Universe. And that's the future of humanity, the ultimate destiny of humanity: the Master has led them to be mechanical soulless monsters, with no future or hope or dignity or kindness, alone in a dying universe.

:(

I hope something more positive ends up happenning with respect to that in a future ep.

Well everything has it's time. and until we reach utopia the doctor does comment on how incredible we are always surviveing......but everything has an end.

Pitry
July 7th, 2007, 01:03 PM
Well everything has it's time. and until we reach utopia the doctor does comment on how incredible we are always surviveing......but everything has an end.

|Yeah, but this end?! For a show that's by RTD's definiton about hope and all that jazz, it's a damn depresseing way for the universe to end.

ShadowMaat
July 7th, 2007, 01:59 PM
So maybe it means we'll see the Utopians in the future (or the past). Maybe they'll have a shot at redemption. *shrug*

wise one
July 7th, 2007, 03:02 PM
the toclafane was sent back to the end of the universe, if i was sent back i would shoot all the other balls

and when the doctor begain to reverse his age, i found it funny that his hair was all gel'ed lol

plus i dont think the master is dead, something about that ring his wife(maybe someone else, hands of the rani????lol) picked up.

plus he died pretty quickly, lived at the end of the universe and then on earth for a few years and then died... it thought time lords would take quite along time to die

Madeleine
July 7th, 2007, 11:14 PM
Well everything has it's time. and until we reach utopia the doctor does comment on how incredible we are always surviveing......but everything has an end.

Yes, it's just a bit of a bleak ending. Not a blaze of glory, nor a quiet fade, but nastyness and what the Master calls 'canibalising'.

I plan to not think about it any more though, unless it does get revisited. :o

Madeleine
July 7th, 2007, 11:15 PM
I never considered Boe fat or bloated, I just figured he was very large (as in giant, not heavy). Maybe after all those years Jack's head finally swelled to suit his ego. :P

And to hold his billions of years of extra memories :)

MechaThor
July 8th, 2007, 05:23 AM
What a Great 2 episodes. Just watched them in a row and WOW!

Series 3 has been so gd and i am so happy it had such a great ending!
The Master was twisted and strange which was cool! and the Doctor as an elf thing looked cool. Great job CGI team on this ep BTW!

Finally Jack as the face of bow just made the episode that bit more excellent!
What a great idea and way to wrap up the faces story!

Looks like the christmas is also going 2 be a gd one!

Mamid
July 9th, 2007, 01:19 AM
Every 7 years, your entire body has "regerated" or replaced itself. So after millions of 7 year repeats, I'm sure that Jack could have slowly evolved.

And yes, I don't think he's dead, but simply about to be "reborn" again like he's been for hundreds of times.

ShadowMaat
July 9th, 2007, 10:47 AM
Well, he's been Captain Jack and he's been the Face of Boe, maybe he'll come back as something else. Which is probably what you just said, only in words I can understand. ;) I like that idea a lot better than Jack/Boe dying and that being the end.

Then again maybe it's unfair to make Jack live forever. Most characters don't, after all, and maybe Boe only died because he CHOSE to. Dunno. That's probably a deep discussion all on its own.

docballen
July 9th, 2007, 11:24 PM
That was something I could never get my head round in America, scones eaten with gravy and not butter and jam


I always thought scones (however it's pronounced...:D ) were sweet... and sounded like they went well with butter, jam, honey or marmalade.

Biscuits are a breakfast bread that is not sweet. No fruit, no nuts... that's what "muffins" are for. If you like to sop up your meat gravy with a slice of bread, you would probably like "biscuits and gravy". (More starch, please!!)

Reefgirl
July 10th, 2007, 12:45 AM
Plain scones aren't sweet

Madeleine
July 10th, 2007, 03:46 AM
The Martha Unrequited Crush thing was never a huge problem for me (I'm sure that were I unwed I'd have a massive big crush on DT, and he only acts the Doctor, so it's not unrealistic that Martha'd fall for the real deal). But LotTL has removed for me the last vestiges of any niggles.

I've tried a few times to type out why, and I can't really explain it. I just think that her love for him might have started as the romantic crush type, but by the end it was completely selfless. It's no less overwhelming for her, and I like her more for 'getting out', but I think that her story about her friend was more of an analogy than a comparison. She's not in love with someone who she unrealistically hopes will love her back. She loves someone who's so far beyond everything she is that it's too much to handle. All that 'fire and ice... heart of the storm... wonderful' stuff, it's overloaded Martha's systems, and she needs to recharge.

Reefgirl
July 10th, 2007, 05:35 AM
*Applause* A big hand for Madeleine W who I think has just about summed it up

Hip Hip

Pitry
July 10th, 2007, 09:16 AM
hooray?

;)

Reefgirl
July 10th, 2007, 10:25 AM
Cheers Pitry

Madeleine
July 10th, 2007, 01:22 PM
:: curtseys ::

Commander Ivanova
July 10th, 2007, 01:29 PM
Plain scones aren't sweet

Potato scones = definitely not sweet. (Scottish delicacy)

Reefgirl
July 10th, 2007, 02:13 PM
Are they like Irish Potato cakes?

Commander Ivanova
July 11th, 2007, 02:02 AM
Are they like Irish Potato cakes?

Umm, can't say, never had the latter. The Scottish ones are triangular and flattish.

Reefgirl
July 11th, 2007, 03:23 AM
Sounds like the Irish ones, probably a distant cousin

wise one
July 11th, 2007, 04:36 AM
well i think jacks been reborn again, its possible since the doctor hast been to the year over 5 billion only the (100 trillion)maybe jack is somewhere there growing

General David Niemi
September 10th, 2007, 05:01 AM
well i think jacks been reborn again, its possible since the doctor hast been to the year over 5 billion only the (100 trillion)maybe jack is somewhere there growing

AH! :P

General David Niemi
September 20th, 2007, 06:16 PM
The Titanic. "Voyage of the Damned" :D Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Celestial
September 22nd, 2007, 08:35 AM
Ok, just watched this episode and it was excellent!!! :D

Loved every minute of it! Along with the whole storyline, the musical score was fantastic too. I loved the acoustics they used on the more dramatic orchestra, it really touches the heart and conveys the feelings invoke in the music. It really helped tell the story.

Being new to the whole Dr Whoniverse, when the Doctor was reduced to a look-a-like house elf from Harry Potter, is that what a Timelord really looks like after 900 years? Or is this the first time it's been shown as to what they would look like if they were stripped from having the power to regenerate?

As for the Master, I've a feeling he'd be back, because imo, what would Dr. Who be without it's no.1 villain? That's like Superman without his villain Lex Luthor.

creed462
September 22nd, 2007, 12:16 PM
Of couse he will be back, he always has a plan to cheat death

Missster.Freeman
September 22nd, 2007, 01:14 PM
Being new to the whole Dr Whoniverse, when the Doctor was reduced to a look-a-like house elf from Harry Potter, is that what a Timelord really looks like after 900 years? Or is this the first time it's been shown as to what they would look like if they were stripped from having the power to regenerate?Probably. To me, it represented what the Doctor would look like if all his accumulated years were suddenly wrapped up in a single body. And yes, that could be due to him being stripped of his regenerative powers. I couldn't say for sure though. Someone who is well versed with Whoniverse facts and figures would be able to provide an answer much better than mine.

Coco Pops
September 23rd, 2007, 05:52 AM
Ta de da Drumroll please I am here. :)

And I am posting my thoughts. All pure opinion and speculation so
flame away if you are not impressed with me.

Hell I am I impress myself every day hehe... :)
==============================================

OMG OMG OMG OMG


I enjoyed the episode for the most part. It would however have
made more sense and been more poignant had they not done
the time reversal and left Earth to rebuild....... That would have
had far greater impact IMHO

But that notwithstanding a fracking good episode....

I was very forgiving of the whole "let's all think about the Doctor" and
he shall regenerate back to youth..... I liked that, but the way the
Master leaves, I get the feeling he may in fact be a lost family member
of the Doctor's bloodline. Anyone else kind of thinking that way?

I'm not too sure how to feel about the fact Jack is the Face Of Boe. On
one hand I can accept it. On the other I think it's a bit mean to the
character to just turn him into a head in a jar...... However I do have
a theory on how they did that.

Here goes John's theory of how Jack Harkness becomes "The Face Of
Boe"
===================================================
Over the course of time as Jack contnues to age, he
continues to live and so being immortal he will never see
death like normal humans. Over this period his body has
aged and his limbs long atrophied. He must have left
Earth at some point in time too and is now on some kind
of life support machine gradually over time his body and limbs
withering away over the passing of time and his brain and head
swelling to enormous size.

Well that's my theory.
===================================================

The flying base didn't remind me of Captain Scarlett but did make me
think of the movie "Sky Captain and the world of tomorrow"


Poor Tardis she was molested badly but the Doctor fixed her all up thanks
to the time reversal... Less said about that the better. That is a very,
very sore point with me.... I wish they had not done that. Lazy
writing iMHO...


=========================================
Did anyone notice the hand with the red nail polish picking
something off the ground like a fancy ring maybe?

I wonder who that could be. Was it the Rani? Or another alien

And will we ever see the Tochlafane again? Maybe the Doctor can
meet them again and make them sane and nice









.

AvatarIII
September 23rd, 2007, 11:11 AM
Probably. To me, it represented what the Doctor would look like if all his accumulated years were suddenly wrapped up in a single body. And yes, that could be due to him being stripped of his regenerative powers. I couldn't say for sure though. Someone who is well versed with Whoniverse facts and figures would be able to provide an answer much better than mine.

well, i know a bit and i know that the first doctor (William Hartnell) died and regenerated of old age/stress when he was about 900, and he just looked like an old man.

Coco Pops
September 23rd, 2007, 08:42 PM
I have several ideas on the drumming noise the Master hears.

1.
It might just be in his head and some mental effect

2.
It could be real

3.
It could be someone / something calling to him.


On that last point I'm thinking if he comes back that maybe the drumming
is someone like say maybe Omega or the resurrected ghost of Rassilon
himself calling to the Master from out of the void....

PG15
September 24th, 2007, 10:05 PM
Not as good as "Sound of Drums", but the overall performance of John Simms made this pretty awesome as well. I expected the whole "world chanting Doctor" part to be somewhat more epic, but its served it purpose.

Once again, Doctor Who completely ker-ploded my mind with the Sci-fi-ness of the origins of the Tolclafanes and the Paradox machine. Seriously, you don't see this kind of inventiveness here in North America, and it's just too bad.

Anyway, great episode...too bad we'll need to wait 2 years (?) for the next one.

And yes, "we", as in, I'm hooked. :D

Coco Pops
September 24th, 2007, 10:09 PM
You might like to know Season 4 has been filmed

PG15
September 24th, 2007, 10:18 PM
So...why aren't they airing it?

Something tells me I'm about to be enraged. Better get that laser screwdriver ready...

Coco Pops
September 24th, 2007, 10:21 PM
You probably will get it. We are getting it late 2008 so the US should
get it too.

Not sure about the UK but I think they're seeing it before us

Admiral Mappalazarou
September 24th, 2007, 10:22 PM
Catherine Tate said yesterday on The Paul O'Grady Show that she was filming Doctor Who until march next year...:S

Coco Pops
September 24th, 2007, 10:24 PM
Catherine Tate said yesterday on The Paul O'Grady Show that she was filming Doctor Who until march next year...:S


Thanks Mappy
I was about to look that up


And I love Donna Noble, mainly because in Doctor Who she's a fiery redhead.
Redheads rule. Second place brunettes

PG15
September 24th, 2007, 10:36 PM
Oh, that's good.

Thanks guys!

Trek_Girl42
September 24th, 2007, 11:35 PM
*sigh* looooooved.....

But right now I'm stuck at: Jack is The Face of Boe! JACK IS THE FACE OF BOE!

That's brilliant. I admit, that moment sparked a scream, no one would want to be the person sat next to me. I want to go back and re-watch all of the Face of Boe episodes now, just knowing that. :D Anyone know if this was originally thought of back in season one, or something they thought up when writing season three?

That scene where the Master died.....that is some of David Tennant's best acting, I was on the verge of tears upon seeing him cry. Plus I really didn't want to Master to die. :(


Ooh, and a Torchwood ad! Finally! Granted, one of those annoying pop-up-on-the-bottom-of-the-screen ads. But finally! :P


And I really can't stop tapping. It's infectious. :D

Trek_Girl42
September 24th, 2007, 11:39 PM
Does anyone know if there's a series three soundtrack being released? The music in the last few eps has been fantastic, and I'm dying to have it. :P :D

PG15
September 24th, 2007, 11:40 PM
You mean the sound of drums? ;)

I think I'm going to do those 4 beats on any hard surface I can find for the next few weeks. :D

Trek_Girl42
September 24th, 2007, 11:49 PM
You mean the sound of drums? ;)

I think I'm going to do those 4 beats on any hard surface I can find for the next few weeks. :D
I was doing it randomly before seeing the ep- after seeing the preview for the second half of the season with the clip of The Master tapping on the table, and now after seeing the ep, it's really of stuck in my head :P

I think I shall go forth, and drive people nuts. ;)

Reefgirl
September 25th, 2007, 12:00 AM
The new series of Dr Who will probably be shown around Easter, it has been for the last 3 years

Coco Pops
September 25th, 2007, 12:57 AM
I've been doing that damn beat all week since Saturday when we had
teh finale... :)

But I want to get it right. Anyone know what the beat is.. I've since
taped over my episode :(

Trek_Girl42
September 25th, 2007, 01:00 AM
I've been doing that damn beat all week since Saturday when we had
teh finale... :)

But I want to get it right. Anyone know what the beat is.. I've since
taped over my episode :(
Search youtube? :)

Coco Pops
September 25th, 2007, 01:14 AM
Search youtube? :)



Yay for youtube!

The sound of drums beat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsFFPMhBCYA)


Sorry don't know how to do the embed thing with the video

Madeleine
September 25th, 2007, 01:15 AM
Anyone know if this was originally thought of back in season one, or something they thought up when writing season three?

They thought of it while writing the Utopia / SoD / LotTL set. At that point Gridlock was about to be filmed, so they went back to the Gridlock script and inserted the words 'old friend' from Boe to the Doctor to make for a better fit.

Nathan
September 25th, 2007, 04:30 AM
I haven't read all 9 pages so fogive me if this has been said.

As people age they tend to get frail and shrink in size. It's not uncommon for someone that was 6' in their 20s to shrink to nearly 5' in their 80s.

The master aged the doctor at least 900 years, probably more. After 900+ years in the one body, the aging process begins to shrink the body. The Doctor ended up being very small and very frail.

What doesn't change? Well the size of your eyes don't change and neither does the size of your ears. This is why old men often seem to have incredibly large ears.

900 years of life, explains, quite logically and genetically/physically correct the reason as to why the doctor looked like gollum.

Yes, I get he is a time lord, but he looks human and besides, it looked cooler ;)

Oh and Jack doesn't count, cause he has absorbed the time vortex meaning he "can't" die...until gridlock sets in in a few billion years.

P-90_177
September 25th, 2007, 04:48 AM
that isn't quite how it works. people seem to shrink in their old age because of the way their skeleton begins to collapse...i think anyway. that isn't really the best way to put it either but my brain isn't working today.

Nathan
September 25th, 2007, 05:07 AM
that isn't quite how it works. people seem to shrink in their old age because of the way their skeleton begins to collapse...i think anyway. that isn't really the best way to put it either but my brain isn't working today.

Actually, it is how it works. Hence the "they tend to shrink" part. I'm pretty sure if you got to 900 years old, you'd shrink due to bone density loss too. Osteoporosis can be a *****, especially for a 900 year old. I also said that it's not uncommon, not that it happens in every case.

Reefgirl
September 25th, 2007, 05:18 AM
The 'Sound of drums' beat is the rhythm beat from the Dr Who theme

Trek_Girl42
September 25th, 2007, 07:36 AM
They thought of it while writing the Utopia / SoD / LotTL set. At that point Gridlock was about to be filmed, so they went back to the Gridlock script and inserted the words 'old friend' from Boe to the Doctor to make for a better fit.
Okay, thanks! :)

PG15
September 25th, 2007, 07:55 PM
The 'Sound of drums' beat is the rhythm beat from the Dr Who theme

Oh my god, you're right!

Hmm...Russel Davies for Prime Minister?

Speaking of which, I wonder what's going to happen now that the President of the US has been murdered. They sort of just glossed over that at the end.

Trek_Girl42
September 25th, 2007, 08:28 PM
Oh my god, you're right!

Hmm...Russel Davies for Prime Minister?

Speaking of which, I wonder what's going to happen now that the President of the US has been murdered. They sort of just glossed over that at the end.
Yes, there's that, and also the Prime Minister of GB AND his entire cabinet- and who knows what other leaders/politicians were in the room when the Master took over and what happened to them. Governments in a shambles all over I'd say. :P ;)

It'll be interesting to see if we see any of the actual fall-out from all this next season, or if it will be, as you say, glossed over.

Coco Pops
September 25th, 2007, 09:05 PM
Yes, there's that, and also the Prime Minister of GB AND his entire cabinet- and who knows what other leaders/politicians were in the room when the Master took over and what happened to them. Governments in a shambles all over I'd say. :P ;)

It'll be interesting to see if we see any of the actual fall-out from all this next season, or if it will be, as you say, glossed over.


And that is why I objected to the rewind if anyone read my reply to
this topic. I think they should have had the defeat of the Master
but carried on from that point in time with a fractured Earth and
civilization rebuilding..... It would have been far more poignant and
realistic....

P-90_177
September 26th, 2007, 01:33 AM
not very scapist though. the whole point of doctor who is that the doctor will always come in and save the day and everything will be fine again.

Coco Pops
September 26th, 2007, 01:45 AM
not very scapist though. the whole point of doctor who is that the doctor will always come in and save the day and everything will be fine again.


True enough... I just was voicing my opinion though...

Pitry
September 26th, 2007, 02:14 AM
And that is why I objected to the rewind if anyone read my reply to
this topic. I think they should have had the defeat of the Master
but carried on from that point in time with a fractured Earth and
civilization rebuilding..... It would have been far more poignant and
realistic....

They can't dp that. If they do something like that, Doctor Who stops being right here, right now. It will be set on a parallel universe where Earth is devestated. From the end of Sound of Drums it was obvious to me there will be a reset.

Oy, there was a question about the soundtrack earlier in the thread - it's coming out hooray. No date yet but I think they did say 2007.
And yeah, they've only started filming series 4 a couple opf months ago, they'll be filming til March - possibly longer, as I'm not sure how they're doing the 2009 specials around DT's schedule, they might start filming them right after finishing series 4.

Coco Pops
September 26th, 2007, 03:44 AM
They can't dp that. If they do something like that, Doctor Who stops being right here, right now. It will be set on a parallel universe where Earth is devestated. From the end of Sound of Drums it was obvious to me there will be a reset.

Oy, there was a question about the soundtrack earlier in the thread - it's coming out hooray. No date yet but I think they did say 2007.
And yeah, they've only started filming series 4 a couple opf months ago, they'll be filming til March - possibly longer, as I'm not sure how they're doing the 2009 specials around DT's schedule, they might start filming them right after finishing series 4.



Yeah I know I was just saying how I would have done that ... I know
the reset was needed.

ShadowMaat
September 26th, 2007, 06:48 AM
re: showing the aftereffects of the political shake-up... Well, we never saw the chaos after the Slitheen incident (or the "doesn't she look tired?" bit, for that matter) so I doubt we'll hear much about this one except perhaps in an offhand (and/or accusatory) way from the next Companion.

Has Russell got something against the British government? He seems to kill them off or depose them at least once a season... ;)

MmmmMcKAy
September 26th, 2007, 05:20 PM
Captain Jack is the Face of Bo!!!!! I didn't see that coming but I guess it fits.

I loved this episode even with the corny "everyone thought of one word...Doctor" solution. I bought it:).

The Doctor forgiving the Master, weeping over his death despite all the horrible things he did, and begging him to regenerate was very moving. He so desperately wants to NOT be alone.

I don't think they'll make much mention of all that went on next series. Everything's pretty well back to normal.....except for all the politicians who bought it.

I understand Martha's decision to stay home and go back to her medical studies and her family. There's no sense in her mooning over the Doctor when he so obviously is not in love with her. Martha had a much easier time leaving the Doctor than Rose did(not at the very end...the first time she stayed back on Earth). But, then again, Martha has more keeping her home than Rose did.

AvatarIII
October 1st, 2007, 09:54 AM
Has Russell got something against the British government? He seems to kill them off or depose them at least once a season... ;)

well.. he IS british

P-90_177
October 1st, 2007, 09:57 AM
re: showing the aftereffects of the political shake-up... Well, we never saw the chaos after the Slitheen incident (or the "doesn't she look tired?" bit, for that matter) so I doubt we'll hear much about this one except perhaps in an offhand (and/or accusatory) way from the next Companion.

Has Russell got something against the British government? He seems to kill them off or depose them at least once a season... ;)


well.. he IS british

i think it's just a case of creating more peril. i mean he did kill off the american president this time too. lol.

I admit i cheered a litle when he was vaporised. hehe. :cameron:

AvatarIII
October 1st, 2007, 10:03 AM
well i think the fact that he got that timid woman from series 1 and she was almost evil by the christmas special shows something about his opinion of the government!

P-90_177
October 1st, 2007, 10:08 AM
i wouldn't call her evil. she just wanted to protect earth. nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Trek_Girl42
October 1st, 2007, 10:14 AM
i think it's just a case of creating more peril. i mean he did kill off the american president this time too. lol.

I admit i cheered a litle when he was vaporised. hehe. :cameron:
Especially after he said: "I will be your master, god willing". Moron. :rolleyes:

We of course all burst out laughing at that line. :D

AvatarIII
October 1st, 2007, 10:19 AM
i wouldn't call her evil. she just wanted to protect earth. nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

well maybe not evil, but you could tell he was trying to implie she was being corrupted by power

P-90_177
October 1st, 2007, 10:19 AM
Especially after he said: "I will be your master, god willing". Moron. :rolleyes:

We of course all burst out laughing at that line. :D

do you think it was intentional though that they ended up with a president that seemed more like a mixture of bush and nixon? lol.

Trek_Girl42
October 1st, 2007, 10:23 AM
do you think it was intentional though that they ended up with a president that seemed more like a mixture of bush and nixon? lol.
Oh I loved it. :D He even had a bit of resemblance to Bush I thought. :P

P-90_177
October 1st, 2007, 10:28 AM
yeah i know. brilliant casting there i think.........course i also think john simm looks a little tiny bit like blair.

Trek_Girl42
October 1st, 2007, 10:32 AM
yeah i know. brilliant casting there i think.........course i also think john simm looks a little tiny bit like blair.
Me too lmao. I was thoroughly amused. :P *sigh* Another reason to love Doctor Who.

P-90_177
October 1st, 2007, 10:34 AM
i hope though that john simm will be able to play the master again though. it looks doubtful but i really hope so. he was just amazingly good at it.

Trek_Girl42
October 1st, 2007, 10:57 AM
i hope though that john simm will be able to play the master again though. it looks doubtful but i really hope so. he was just amazingly good at it.
Now THAT was the best piece of Doctor Who casting since David Tennant. Not bringing him back would be a crime. Not bringing him back while David is still the Doctor, doubly so. Of course it looks like RTD created an oppertunity for that with the bit with the ring at the end. :D

Perhaps we'll see him back for one of the 2009 specials?

ShadowMaat
October 1st, 2007, 01:42 PM
Oh yeah, and the President of Great Britain got killed in the alternate universe, too. ;)

ShadowMaat
October 5th, 2007, 05:56 PM
OMG, they hacked it to PIECES!! http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/neptune/Animated/Stunned/stunned018.gif

How utterly horrible for all the fans who have only seen this version of the finale! Ye gods! I may have to watch the full version now, just to reassure myself. :P

Oh, and since I'm STILL in shock about this: Jack. Is. The. Face. Of. Boe. *boggles*

BTW, does anyone know what the "clue" for next season is? I know it's supposed to be mentioned (or seen) in the last two eps, but... I'm still coming up blank.

Mattathias2.0
October 5th, 2007, 06:33 PM
OMG, they hacked it to PIECES!! http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/neptune/Animated/Stunned/stunned018.gif

How utterly horrible for all the fans who have only seen this version of the finale! Ye gods! I may have to watch the full version now, just to reassure myself. :P

Oh, and since I'm STILL in shock about this: Jack. Is. The. Face. Of. Boe. *boggles*

BTW, does anyone know what the "clue" for next season is? I know it's supposed to be mentioned (or seen) in the last two eps, but... I'm still coming up blank.

How bad was it? I refuse to watch the ones that air on SCI FI because I saw what they did to Utopia (I only saw Series 1 on SCI FI prior to watchin it, the rest was also by other means). In any case, I watch them y alternative methods long before they air on SCI FI.

Coco Pops
October 5th, 2007, 06:50 PM
OMG, they hacked it to PIECES!! http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/neptune/Animated/Stunned/stunned018.gif

How utterly horrible for all the fans who have only seen this version of the finale! Ye gods! I may have to watch the full version now, just to reassure myself. :P

Oh, and since I'm STILL in shock about this: Jack. Is. The. Face. Of. Boe. *boggles*

BTW, does anyone know what the "clue" for next season is? I know it's supposed to be mentioned (or seen) in the last two eps, but... I'm still coming up blank.



The clue was a scene at the Master's funeral pyre where you see
a hand with red nail polish pick up the Master's ring and a female
laugh. At least I think that's the clue. I don't think it was the Titanic
thing crashing through the TARDIS..

Coco Pops
October 5th, 2007, 06:52 PM
Oh yeah, and the President of Great Britain got killed in the alternate universe, too. ;)


Noooooo the one that got killed was the USA President and I cheered
but the Master was the PM of Great Brittain

ShadowMaat
October 5th, 2007, 07:30 PM
Noooooo the one that got killed was the USA President and I cheered
but the Master was the PM of Great Brittain

In this episode, yes. But in the Cybermen eps last year they were in an alternate universe and there was a President of Great Britain. Just because I'm American doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to believe that the UK normally has a presidency. ;)

As for the hack job, let's see...

* The galactic warning about Earth being in "terminal mode" was snipped
* The "I Can't Decide" song and dance was snipped
* The "I'm a doctor" conversation with Tom Milligan was snipped
* The confrontation between Tom and the Spheres was snipped- this is where we find out about Martha still using her perception field thingy
* I think part of the explanation about the Arcangel Network was snipped, although I could be wrong.
* The Master getting a massage was cut, which is relevant because he removes is jacket, which is relevant because...
* Half the onboard attack scenes were cut- including the rather important scene where Mom Jones hands the Doctor the Master's jacket, which explains how the Doctor wound up with the Master's laser screwdriver
* Part of the Master's scene explaining taking the wife to Utopia was snipped (the Sphere's whole arrival and convo was snipped, if I remember rightly)
* The Master sneaking back in the middle of the night (in pyjamas) to tell the Doctor "guess what?" was snipped (this is right after Doherty betrays Martha)
* The prison scenes wherein the Jones family commiserated over wishing to kill the Master was snipped- important in a backgroundy way since we see love and affection between the formerly separated/divorced Mum & Dad
* The scene where Martha's mum grabs up the dropped gun and the Master tries to goad her into shooting him was snipped
* Martha running up to hand a bouquet of flowers to the mystified Doherty was snipped
* Martha calling Dr Milligan on her mobile was snipped- which could be relevant if she winds up dating him

There were probably more, but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head (and yes, I did watch the uncut ep because damn, there was even more missing than I realized).

Mattathias2.0
October 5th, 2007, 07:36 PM
In this episode, yes. But in the Cybermen eps last year they were in an alternate universe and there was a President of Great Britain. Just because I'm American doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to believe that the UK normally has a presidency. ;)

As for the hack job, let's see...

* The galactic warning about Earth being in "terminal mode" was snipped
* The "I Can't Decide" song and dance was snipped
* The "I'm a doctor" conversation with Tom Milligan was snipped
* The confrontation between Tom and the Spheres was snipped- this is where we find out about Martha still using her perception field thingy
* I think part of the explanation about the Arcangel Network was snipped, although I could be wrong.
* The Master getting a massage was cut, which is relevant because he removes is jacket, which is relevant because...
* Half the onboard attack scenes were cut- including the rather important scene where Mom Jones hands the Doctor the Master's jacket, which explains how the Doctor wound up with the Master's laser screwdriver
* Part of the Master's scene explaining taking the wife to Utopia was snipped (the Sphere's whole arrival and convo was snipped, if I remember rightly)
* The Master sneaking back in the middle of the night (in pyjamas) to tell the Doctor "guess what?" was snipped (this is right after Doherty betrays Martha)
* The prison scenes wherein the Jones family commiserated over wishing to kill the Master was snipped- important in a backgroundy way since we see love and affection between the formerly separated/divorced Mum & Dad
* The scene where Martha's mum grabs up the dropped gun and the Master tries to goad her into shooting him was snipped
* Martha running up to hand a bouquet of flowers to the mystified Doherty was snipped
* Martha calling Dr Milligan on her mobile was snipped- which could be relevant if she winds up dating him

There were probably more, but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head (and yes, I did watch the uncut ep because damn, there was even more missing than I realized).

OMG. Those are some of the best scenes!

ShadowMaat
October 5th, 2007, 07:40 PM
OMG. Those are some of the best scenes!

Exactly! The whole song & dance at the beginning is one of my favorite scenes. I suppose I can understand why it was cut, but dang! You miss the fact that the Master is making the Doctor live in a little tent on the floor with a food dish that says "Dog" on it. You miss him ringing the bell to call out the Doctor and then wheeling him around in the wheelchair. *sigh*

Mattathias2.0
October 5th, 2007, 07:44 PM
Exactly! The whole song & dance at the beginning is one of my favorite scenes. I suppose I can understand why it was cut, but dang! You miss the fact that the Master is making the Doctor live in a little tent on the floor with a food dish that says "Dog" on it. You miss him ringing the bell to call out the Doctor and then wheeling him around in the wheelchair. *sigh*

Thank God it is coming out on DVD Nov 6th! I look forward to that (rewatching the original)!

ShadowMaat
October 5th, 2007, 07:48 PM
On the other hand... can someone confirm for me that a line of dialogue was added to the US broadcast? In the scene where Milligan is knocking on the door of the slave quarters it seemed like he said, "It's me, Tom Milligan" whereas in the original he just says "It's me." I noticed it because it seemed weird that he was still trying to identify himself when they were already opening the door.

Do they really think Americans are so stupid that they need to have the character re-identified? And why bother since they snipped out all his character development scenes including the fact that Martha seems to fancy him (as evidence by her snipped call- and hangup- to him at the end)?

MasySyma
October 5th, 2007, 07:50 PM
A Fantastic Episode! (even with tons cut out)

Thanks Shadow. The explanation helped several scenes make more sense.

The Good:

Powerful Scenes-the scene with the Master dying in the Doctor's arms was amazing. The writing was fantastic, and the actors had something to do at last.

Character Development-I liked how the relationship between Jack and the Doctor ended, and I was ok with how Martha and the Doctor parted too. I didn't dislike Martha, and I preferred her to Rose. However, it was time for her to leave. I could even handle Martha's odd family this time.

The Bad:

The shrunken Doctor wasn't terribly impressive. Glowy Doctor (who appeared to be using the overused SG-1 plot element of ascension) wasn't much better. I could handle the idea of transformation through belief and hope, particularly since the Doctor is referred to as "a lonely god" in New Earth. I just didn't like the special effects of the change here. I might have preferred the lighting they use when the Timelords regenerate.

The episode seemed a bit scattered, but my I endured the hacked up episode courtesy of SciFi. My views of the pacing will likely change.

Overall, it was a fantastic episode for an amazing show. I dread the wait for Season 4.

Coco Pops
October 5th, 2007, 08:47 PM
yes thanks Shadow for explaining the cuts made....

I didn't realise scifi would butcher it as much as they did. Over here
we saw it uncut, and unmolested with no ads......

They air Dr. Who on the ABC here which is our government run
broadcaster. They don't run ads during their shows.

Maybe your scifi channel cut it up to fit ads in

ShadowMaat
October 5th, 2007, 09:18 PM
Yeah, that's kind of a given... and a source of much grievance for American fans of Who (and other imports).

Mattathias2.0
October 5th, 2007, 09:50 PM
That's why I don't watch much TV, lol.

Nathan
October 5th, 2007, 10:53 PM
OMG, they hacked it to PIECES!! http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/neptune/Animated/Stunned/stunned018.gif

How utterly horrible for all the fans who have only seen this version of the finale! Ye gods! I may have to watch the full version now, just to reassure myself. :P

Oh, and since I'm STILL in shock about this: Jack. Is. The. Face. Of. Boe. *boggles*

BTW, does anyone know what the "clue" for next season is? I know it's supposed to be mentioned (or seen) in the last two eps, but... I'm still coming up blank.
The end with the titanic. "What? What!?" Heard that before? Who arrived that caused him to say that? That person will be back in the next season.

ShadowMaat
October 5th, 2007, 11:55 PM
If it's the ring, I'll be severely disappointed. That wasn't a sneaky hint, that was a hammer blow- and it ties directly to the last season hint, so where's the fun in that?

And it isn't the "What?" thing- That's just one of the Doctor's phrases. He used it in Christmas Bride AND in Shakespeare Code. At the very least.

Maybe I'll just go read Outpost Gallifrey's board and see what they have to say. Chances are they know what I mean- and what the hint is.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
October 6th, 2007, 12:20 AM
*hops in*

Like I said in the other thread... you people are mad. You want me to do what with who now? *sigh* (:P:P:P yes, that was worth repeating :P:P:P)

Anyway.... well there's really not much for me too add. Everyone else has already said it.

DT's acting was EXCELLENT (I never cry with TV... I nearly did when the Master died... thanks to David :mad: No wait, it's a good thing :D) as was John Simms'. I'd never seen JS before Doctor Who. *claps for DT and JS* ENCORE! ENCORE!

Martha's pining over the Doctor was getting annoying, but I think she made up for it in the end. Oh, she was great in this one I think. *two thumbs up*

..... Jack. AAAAAAAHH!!! Jack?? The big ol' face??!! That's what I'll be calling him from now on. :P

And that's all for my extremely unintelligent and... short... review. *bows*

*runs out*

Aadizookaan
October 6th, 2007, 12:23 AM
Did not see Jack as the Face of Boe coming at all but a few niggles, if Jack is the Face of Boe
a) How did 'Boe Kind' come into being
b) How come Boe didn't recognise the Doctor
c) And how did Jack/Boe become telepathic?

If that's not Lucy pretending to be Ming the Merciless who do we think it is, my money's on The Rani

1. Jack's transformation into the Face of Boe could happen in a variety of ways, however, he is, as the Face of Boe, 5 billion years old. Just like the Doctor's change into a smurf when aged artificially by the Master.

2. The Face of Boe did remember the Doctor when they first met back on Sattelite 5 in "The End of The World", his eyebrow moved up and he looked suprised to see the Doctor, then in "New Earth" he told the Doctor to wait and teleported away out of spite, and in "Gridlock" he called The Doctor - old friend.

3. Again, time will tell.

THE RANI, OMG! Now that would be a good one, another time Lord in existence.

Xzyl
October 6th, 2007, 01:01 AM
Is the Master dead? Yes, but he has been dead before.

I am also voting for the Rani being the hand at the end. Although they were not on good terms when they parted ways she may have a plan to exploit the Master.

~Benjamin~
October 6th, 2007, 06:43 AM
ah , good old Doctor Who,

this cut version of Last of the Time Lords was it any good ? with all those cut scenes it sounds crap (missed the dancing?)

anyway a very good episode, bound to be a top favourite of mine for a long time (along with blink)

Hope it is the Rani , cause that will make it a bit more interesting

Coco Pops
October 6th, 2007, 08:23 AM
1. Jack's transformation into the Face of Boe could happen in a variety of ways, however, he is, as the Face of Boe, 5 billion years old. Just like the Doctor's change into a smurf when aged artificially by the Master.

2. The Face of Boe did remember the Doctor when they first met back on Sattelite 5 in "The End of The World", his eyebrow moved up and he looked suprised to see the Doctor, then in "New Earth" he told the Doctor to wait and teleported away out of spite, and in "Gridlock" he called The Doctor - old friend.

3. Again, time will tell.

THE RANI, OMG! Now that would be a good one, another time Lord in existence.


Well this is one way Jack could become Boe.. But it is also frought
with problems. In "The Long game" one of the news broadcasts
from the station was that Boe had just had a child...

A baby "Boemina" if I recall .....

But here's how I thnk Jack could become Boe......

=============================================
Over the course of time as Jack contnues to age, he
continues to live and so being immortal he will never see
death like normal humans. Over this period his body has
aged and his limbs long atrophied. He must have left
Earth at some point in time too and is now on some kind
of life support machine gradually over time his body and limbs
withering away over the passing of time and his brain and head
swelling to enormous size.

Well that's my theory.
=============================================

ShadowMaat
October 6th, 2007, 09:13 AM
I'm still a bit curious about the giving birth thing because in spite of it he's still generally referred to as the "last of his kind." Did the kid(s) not make it or had there simply been such a long time span that the kid(s) died off? Or, given that he only evolved/aged into what he is, could it be that he's the only one of "his kind" and he gave birth to regular humans?

Might be funny to have the Doctor run into Jack's kids somewhere down the line.

Trek_Girl42
October 6th, 2007, 10:42 AM
In this episode, yes. But in the Cybermen eps last year they were in an alternate universe and there was a President of Great Britain. Just because I'm American doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to believe that the UK normally has a presidency. ;)

As for the hack job, let's see...

* The galactic warning about Earth being in "terminal mode" was snipped
* The "I Can't Decide" song and dance was snipped
* The "I'm a doctor" conversation with Tom Milligan was snipped
* The confrontation between Tom and the Spheres was snipped- this is where we find out about Martha still using her perception field thingy
* I think part of the explanation about the Arcangel Network was snipped, although I could be wrong.
* The Master getting a massage was cut, which is relevant because he removes is jacket, which is relevant because...
* Half the onboard attack scenes were cut- including the rather important scene where Mom Jones hands the Doctor the Master's jacket, which explains how the Doctor wound up with the Master's laser screwdriver
* Part of the Master's scene explaining taking the wife to Utopia was snipped (the Sphere's whole arrival and convo was snipped, if I remember rightly)
* The Master sneaking back in the middle of the night (in pyjamas) to tell the Doctor "guess what?" was snipped (this is right after Doherty betrays Martha)
* The prison scenes wherein the Jones family commiserated over wishing to kill the Master was snipped- important in a backgroundy way since we see love and affection between the formerly separated/divorced Mum & Dad
* The scene where Martha's mum grabs up the dropped gun and the Master tries to goad her into shooting him was snipped
* Martha running up to hand a bouquet of flowers to the mystified Doherty was snipped
* Martha calling Dr Milligan on her mobile was snipped- which could be relevant if she winds up dating him

There were probably more, but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head (and yes, I did watch the uncut ep because damn, there was even more missing than I realized).
*sigh* That sounds pretty much exact to what what cut from our version as well. :rolleyes:

It was a crime to cut the master's dance scene especially. :(

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
October 6th, 2007, 07:53 PM
Why must they cut so much... why? No, don't answer. I know the answer... :(:(:(

I'm SO getting the DVDs!!

Trek_Girl42
October 6th, 2007, 09:01 PM
Why must they cut so much... why? No, don't answer. I know the answer... :(:(:(

I'm SO getting the DVDs!!
If you haven't seen The Master's "I Can't Decide" dance scene yet, here it is. Cutting this was an absolute crime. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGoTxNrhrk0

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
October 6th, 2007, 09:35 PM
OMGosh! That's so funny! http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Myn_M/Doctor%20Who/The%20Doctor/Doctorlol.gif Thanks TG!

After seeing the video, I found this: It's a vid with the full song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwC1thygns8&mode=related&search=)

It's sick and twisted and disturbing and awesome. http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Myn_M/Doctor%20Who/The%20Doctor/Doctordrnk.gif

Coulda done without the swear words, though...

Trek_Girl42
October 6th, 2007, 10:11 PM
OMGosh! That's so funny! http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Myn_M/Doctor%20Who/The%20Doctor/Doctorlol.gif Thanks TG!

After seeing the video, I found this: It's a vid with the full song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwC1thygns8&mode=related&search=)

It's sick and twisted and disturbing and awesome. http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Myn_M/Doctor%20Who/The%20Doctor/Doctordrnk.gif

Coulda done without the swear words, though...
Hehe, thanks for the link. :D

Merlin's_Legacy
October 7th, 2007, 01:11 PM
Overall I liked this episode. Wasn't too sure about the shrunken Dr. Didn't make a whole lot of sense, and seemed like just a reason for the SFX team to show off, but then there is a lot in Dr. Who that you just sort of have to accept. (Happens a lot in Anime too.)

The one thing that did bother me was the whole thing with the entire world thinking/saying at once "Doctor". My first thought was "How very Tinkerbell of him." Half expected Martha to turn to the audience and say "Now clap your hands and say I do believe in fairies." Also reminded me of Captain Picard instructing everyone on the Enterprise to direct their thoughts and good will toward The Traveller. (Hmm... Maybe he was a Timelord. Didn't have name, just that designation "The Traveller".)

Didn't really compare it to ascension though. I have decided though, that Timelords are not exactly like normal humans, and we haven't even scratched the surface of what the doctor's true "powers" are. We know he can feel planets spinning, he can feel and absorb energy. And now we know that with enough energy directed towards him he can fly.

One more question... How many shots did it take to kill The Master? Shouldn't it have been 2 (One for each heart)? We've seen The Doctor managing to stay alive, albeit in a weakened state, with only one heart working (Shakespeare Code).

ShadowMaat
October 7th, 2007, 01:29 PM
Good point, although I suppose part of it is that the Doctor was fighting to survive while the Master wanted to die. Or at least wanted everyone to think he'd died.

Coco Pops
October 7th, 2007, 06:56 PM
In the old Doctor Who episode "City of Death" the Doctor and Romana
were standing somewhere near the middle of the Eiffel Towar and they
made a comment about flying down to ground. I think the Doc wasn't
joking and wondered if that was one of their abilities....

Mattathias2.0
October 7th, 2007, 07:16 PM
In the old Doctor Who episode "City of Death" the Doctor and Romana
were standing somewhere near the middle of the Eiffel Towar and they
made a comment about flying down to ground. I think the Doc wasn't
joking and wondered if that was one of their abilities....

I believe he meant to do that inside the TARDIS, which can fly.

If that one was one of his abilities, he would have done so in Logopolis, when he fell from the Pharos Project thingy.

Coco Pops
October 8th, 2007, 02:10 AM
I believe he meant to do that inside the TARDIS, which can fly.

If that one was one of his abilities, he would have done so in Logopolis, when he fell from the Pharos Project thingy.


Oh OK I thought the Doctor was being serious... :)

ShadowMaat
October 8th, 2007, 06:53 AM
Oh OK I thought the Doctor was being serious... :)

He WAS being serious... about flying down in the TARDIS. He doesn't have to define his exact meaning any more than someone saying they're "flying home for the holidays" has to clarify that they're flying home in an airplane and not simply flapping their arms or using a jetpack or something. :P

Pitry
October 8th, 2007, 08:55 AM
One more question... How many shots did it take to kill The Master? Shouldn't it have been 2 (One for each heart)? We've seen The Doctor managing to stay alive, albeit in a weakened state, with only one heart working (Shakespeare Code).

He wasn't shot in any heart, tho, it looked like the stomach or somewhere lower, at any rate. One of these places you die because you just end up bleeding to death - which they didn't show because of the kids watching and all that...

P-90_177
October 8th, 2007, 09:13 AM
He wasn't shot in any heart, tho, it looked like the stomach or somewhere lower, at any rate. One of these places you die because you just end up bleeding to death - which they didn't show because of the kids watching and all that...

course he is a different species. could mean the bullet hit another crtical organ.

AvatarIII
October 8th, 2007, 09:37 AM
One of these places you die because you just end up bleeding to death - which they didn't show because of the kids watching and all that...

obviously, and do we really want to be teaching kids how to kill someone effectively?

Trek_Girl42
October 8th, 2007, 10:46 AM
obviously, and do we really want to be teaching kids how to kill someone effectively?
:lol:

Out of curiosity, if a Timelord is shot (by shot, I mean, does some damage, not just a flesh wound), does he regenerate automatically (obviously in this case we see there's a choice component), or only if the wound is absolutely fatal? If The Doctor was shot pretty badly, could he still survive without regenerating by putting his life in the trust of medical science like a human, or would he not take the risk of dying permanently and just regenerate anyway?

Pitry
October 9th, 2007, 03:22 AM
:lol:

Out of curiosity, if a Timelord is shot (by shot, I mean, does some damage, not just a flesh wound), does he regenerate automatically (obviously in this case we see there's a choice component), or only if the wound is absolutely fatal? If The Doctor was shot pretty badly, could he still survive without regenerating by putting his life in the trust of medical science like a human, or would he not take the risk of dying permanently and just regenerate anyway?

I think the whole process is unclear but it seems from LotTL the regeneration is at any case voluntary, not automatic. If a Time Lord doesn't want to regenerate, he won't. If he thinks there's a better chance with a race of people who don't really know his physiology....well. ;)

As for teaching kids, w emight want them to know how to effectively kill a Time Lord! :D

Trek_Girl42
October 9th, 2007, 08:08 AM
I think the whole process is unclear but it seems from LotTL the regeneration is at any case voluntary, not automatic. If a Time Lord doesn't want to regenerate, he won't. If he thinks there's a better chance with a race of people who don't really know his physiology....well. ;)

As for teaching kids, w emight want them to know how to effectively kill a Time Lord! :D
If it were me I wouldn't waste my regenerations, I'd trust medical science until the last possible moment before regenerating. But I guess that wouldn't make for very compelling television if he did that every time. :P

markaudette
October 9th, 2007, 07:56 PM
The ending scene where The Master refused to regenerate was the single-most saddest moment I think I have ever seen. It was an absolutely brilliant piece of story telling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a5-I_kl2fU

Coco Pops
October 9th, 2007, 08:39 PM
If it were me I wouldn't waste my regenerations, I'd trust medical science until the last possible moment before regenerating. But I guess that wouldn't make for very compelling television if he did that every time. :P



The only problem with that is that if you regenerated while on the
operating table or whatever you'd most likely freak the doctors out
and they'd want to experiment on you. Or call the men in black :D

Trek_Girl42
October 9th, 2007, 10:41 PM
The ending scene where The Master refused to regenerate was the single-most saddest moment I think I have ever seen. It was an absolutely brilliant piece of story telling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a5-I_kl2fU
That was such a heart breaker- the acting by David Tennant and John Simm in that scene was just brilliant.....so was the piece of music that played during the funeral pyre scene. Certainly one of Doctor Who's finest moments.


The only problem with that is that if you regenerated while on the
operating table or whatever you'd most likely freak the doctors out
and they'd want to experiment on you. Or call the men in black :D
Shush don't ruin my plan. :P

flameling
December 8th, 2007, 06:08 PM
one of the best episodes yet. Sadly, the Master refused to regenerate in the saddest moment of T.V. history ever. But it was that scene was the best in the episode because of all the emotion shown in the doctor. Loved how everyone was gassed. It was funny when The Master cowered in a corner when told that he was forgiven.

Coco Pops
December 8th, 2007, 06:45 PM
one of the best episodes yet. Sadly, the Master refused to regenerate in the saddest moment of T.V. history ever. But it was that scene was the best in the episode because of all the emotion shown in the doctor. Loved how everyone was gassed. It was funny when The Master cowered in a corner when told that he was forgiven.


So a timelord can refuse to do that and die like a normal person?

I read in another forum that regeneration is automatic.......

P-90_177
December 8th, 2007, 06:47 PM
So a timelord can refuse to do that and die like a normal person?

I read in another forum that regeneration is automatic.......

In the old series i think it was established at some point that it was automatic. certainly it was in the movie where the doctor was already dead when he regenerated.

Coco Pops
December 8th, 2007, 06:51 PM
In the old series i think it was established at some point that it was automatic. certainly it was in the movie where the doctor was already dead when he regenerated.



Ah..... But now they have a choice and that's why I asked because
I was thinking of the old series.

Flyboy
December 8th, 2007, 07:14 PM
I'm not so sure it's a choice, more he forced himself not to (with great difficulty).

ShadowMaat
December 15th, 2007, 05:44 PM
Dunno why, but this ridiculous technogeek bracelet (http://nexus404.com/Blog/2007/12/11/bluetooth-vibrating-alert-cell-phone-bracelet-with-proximity-warning-for-the-absent-minded/) makes me think of the Toclophane. Maybe cos it's round and black and vaguely menacing-looking. ;)

Coco Pops
December 15th, 2007, 11:02 PM
Dunno why, but this ridiculous technogeek bracelet (http://nexus404.com/Blog/2007/12/11/bluetooth-vibrating-alert-cell-phone-bracelet-with-proximity-warning-for-the-absent-minded/) makes me think of the Toclophane. Maybe cos it's round and black and vaguely menacing-looking. ;)


I like that.... I want one.

And I like the snap together camera that would be heaps fun

Trek_Girl42
December 16th, 2007, 12:14 AM
LOVE that bracelet. Except for the fact that it's a cellphone thing. *sigh* all these gadgets. :rolleyes: It just looks cool as a bracelet.....

gateship15
November 2nd, 2008, 12:12 AM
i disagree on how they ended up getting rid of the master since he has been annoying the doctor for so many years and killed the doctor so many times i don't think that getting shot and refusing to regenerate really does it justices. altho it does hurt the doctor since his rival has chosen to die instead of being stuck in a tadis with the doctor. i still don't think a girl shooting him was the best way for him to go