PDA

View Full Version : The Family of Blood (2909/309)



GateWorld
February 14th, 2007, 06:04 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s3/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/309.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 29</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s3/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE FAMILY OF BLOOD</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 2909</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
As the human "John Smith," the man who was once the Doctor must defend his school from the Family's murderous onslaught -- only to be confronted with the truth that he must give up his new life and become the Doctor again to save everyone.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s3/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

scarimor
June 2nd, 2007, 12:08 PM
I always did like Paul Cornell's stuff :)

Madeleine
June 2nd, 2007, 12:08 PM
That was so poignant. The bit where Joan asked him if anyone would have died if he hadn't come, and his face changed completely; that was just the saddest thing.

And brilliantly creepy. The voiceover from the Son of the Family, describing their various imprisonments... :eek:

Flyboy
June 2nd, 2007, 12:11 PM
I always did like Paul Cornell's stuff :)
This has to be possibly my favourite episode of all time.

From the "They are cadets! They are trained to fight for King and country" - A scene which moved the part of me which used to be a cadet. To Tennant's superb acting.

But above all I must confess, the ending brought tears to my eye.

Not only did this young boy save the life of his comrade, a boy who persecuted him during school, but he single handedly lead him out of danger and to safety. Only to live past both world wars and to finally once again, possibly for the last time, see the Doctor during one of the most stirring speeches ever spoken. This episode was great in the truest sense of the word, and had an extremely touching ending.

scarimor
June 2nd, 2007, 12:11 PM
That was so poignant. The bit where Joan asked him if anyone would have died if he hadn't come, and his face changed completely; that was just the saddest thing.

And brilliantly creepy. The voiceover from the Son of the Family, describing their various imprisonments... :eek:
Yeah, I remember thinking years ago when Cornell was writing the New Adventures, how great it would be to see his poignant style transferred to the TV Dr Who. It took many years, but my wish came true :)

And his original characters have always been so interesting. They chose some fine actors to play those two parts, who did them justice.

Naonak
June 2nd, 2007, 12:14 PM
Christ, were schools really like that in 1913?!?! :eek:

Brilliant episode. It had a great mix of action and drama.

The scene with John Smith trying to decide what to do was really well acted. Very good moral question with this whole new person being created and having to die just so the Doctor could hide.

Not really sure about the scene at the end with Doctor and Joan. He seemed a little bit... odd. "Come with me! Aw, why not? We can be together!" :S

Next week looks completely bizarre. :confused:

knowles2
June 2nd, 2007, 12:19 PM
this was a brillant episode, was it me or did it seem like a really short episode, I know it was normal time but it seem to fly bye.

great acting from all the cast.

scarimor
June 2nd, 2007, 12:20 PM
Christ, were schools really like that in 1913?!?! :eek:
Boys' public schools? You bet. And the ethos of duty etc. permeated throughout society via such establishments as examples of what the rank and file should aspire to, and via the Church. As a result, for World War I Britain created the biggest volunteer army in the history of the world. They didn't even have to introduce conscription until 1916, half way through the war.


Brilliant episode. It had a great mix of action and drama.
Yep.

pbellosom
June 2nd, 2007, 12:30 PM
That was an amazing episode. I really enjoyed it even though it was a bit weird having two seperate characters doing voice overs. When the evil guy first started doing the VO I thought that it would turn out he was telling the story to Saxon.

You could tell that this one really hit the Doctor, not only did he not give them their "One Chance" but the punishments seemed rather harsh. Is this the first time the Doctor has actually had the bad guys still alive at the end and taken it upon himself to give punishment? Matron was right though, it was the Doctor's fault.

The guy saying TARDIS in a farmer's accent was brilliant and the guy playing the evil kid I thought was brilliantly menacing, possibly the most chilling bad guy I've seen on Who with the possible exception of the Empty Child.

Edit: When the Doctor entered te Familly's space ship and started pressing buttons I knew he was just pretending to be John. Next week's episode looks really odd.

BruTak
June 2nd, 2007, 01:01 PM
Loved it, loved it, loved it!

Harry Lloyd (Baines/Son of the Family) has gone a long way towards making up for the Godawful mess that was Robin Hood - he played Will Scarlet.

I must admit to having a tear in my eye when the old Latimer saw the Doctor and Martha at the Rememberance Day ceremony.
But my God! Those Army Cedets were a right slovenly looking bunch...

My one criticism, is the use of "Incoming!" during the World War I battle scene (Battle of the Somme?). It strikes me as more of an Americanism, more suited to a Vietnam War movie than the trenches of the Western Front.

Admiral Mappalazarou
June 2nd, 2007, 01:06 PM
Utterly fantastic.

A superb episode, and I never usually use the word 'superb' in any context. :cameron: The whole episode was brilliant, and one of the be two parters ever and also one of the darkest too.

The fact that they find an empty house, and it's reason for being solitude is because that little girl murdered her parents whilst being possessed by an alien, and the various imprisonments the doctor unleashed as a final judgement on the family. Excellent.

The Family are without a doubt one of the best baddies of the new Doctor Who series so far, and that man who played the possessed student; Baines, he's a brilliant actor and reminds me of what an evil superman should look like. :cameron:

I missed the beginning and just caught the ending since my dog was being really hyper and wouldn't let me watch it. So I shall watch it again, but I did catch the WWI veteran ceremony with the doctor and Martha turning up.

The scene which showed a possible normal life for John Smith was interesting, married with children, and the eventual old age 10th Doctor.

So over all, best episode of the season so far.

The next episode looks interesting, like a ruthless game or something. 'Don't blink or turn away...'

The Signal
June 2nd, 2007, 01:57 PM
Okay, WOW! I wasn't that impressed with part 1, but this one. WOW!

David was brilliant, playing two totally different characters in the forms of John Smith and The Doctor within the same episode, and he played them fantastically. Freema has been on top form all season, but this was a new high. She pulled of Martha's desperation excellently.

Now, on to the story, the conclusion was inevitable, and I half saw the deception coming, though I expected they'd have simply used a fake watch, and then use the real deal to bring back the good doc'.

The love story was emotional beyond belief, the one thing that The Doctor can never have, a life. Add to that his total ignorance of her feelings once he returned to normality, and the tragedy of the whole situation was complete. Not to mention Martha's love for him, while he clearly doesn't want that from her.

The description of The Doctor was perfect, I got chills! Finally, the fate of the Family of Blood showed that The Doctor wasn't bluffing back in School Reunion. He's so old, he's seen and done so much, he has so little forgiveness, and The Family paid the ultimate price for crossing him.

The strongest episode of the season, and of David's time as The Doctor. It does, however fall just short of "The Empty Child" for the top spot of the revival though.

**** top marks :D

Billz
June 2nd, 2007, 02:04 PM
This is just what this season needed.

10/10

It did feel a bit odd when The Doctor was carrying out their imprisonments. Knocking someone into a collapsing galaxy, trapping a young person in every mirror in Britain, weighing someone down with chains then pushing them into a pit or something and freezing someone else to make them a scarecrow.

I mean, yeah they were evil aliens but their ship was recently destroyed and The Doctor has never been that vengeful before.

Next weeks looks like it will just be a 'filler-episode' though. Anyone else agree?

pbellosom
June 2nd, 2007, 02:35 PM
Next weeks looks like it will just be a 'filler-episode' though. Anyone else agree?

Apparently it's this seasons "Doctor-Lite" episode similar to Love and Monsters Random Shoes in Torchwood.

BC - 303
June 2nd, 2007, 02:46 PM
Apparently it's this seasons "Doctor-Lite" episode similar to Love and Monsters Random Shoes in Torchwood.

translation
below par

Matt G
June 2nd, 2007, 02:54 PM
1. Martha's best ep yet.

2. "I don't think England is ready for this". Cue Blitz in 1913.

3. Interesting how Joan exposed the holes in John Smith's backstory to himself.

4. The life times for both John Smith and the kid were cool.

5. "If the Doctor hadn't chosen this place...would anyone have died?" Ouch!

6. We know the Doctor can be ruthless and he'd have argued that the Family using the people of England 1913 in the way they did was foul play.

The most multilayed ep of New School Who ever! Great work! :)

The Signal
June 2nd, 2007, 02:56 PM
translation
below par

Personally, I liked Random Shoes in Torchwood, though I didn't like L&M. On the plus side, Steven Moffat is behind this one, so it stands a good chance at being a good episode IMO

Hulabaloo
June 2nd, 2007, 03:02 PM
Fantastic episode. Really and thoroughly enjoyed it.

ShadowMaat
June 2nd, 2007, 04:42 PM
Wow, talk about an emotionally-charged ep! Brilliant performances all around and a really bittersweet conclusion (though we knew going in that it could only end in tears).

If I had any complaint at all it'd be that in nine short eps (eight if you start last week) Martha has become as obnoxiously clingy and mawkishly possessive as Rose was by the end of her run. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but this whole obsessive love thing drives me absolutely bonkers. I loathe it. I despise it. I abhor it. It's a repugnant and virulent element in an otherwise great story. I don't know why RDM feels compelled to have the Doctor's Companions fall madly in love with him and I don't know why that love has to manifest in such ostentatious and invasive ways, but I wish he would by-gods give it the hell up and stick to the good storytelling. Or at the very least tone it the hell down and KEEP it toned down. Jeez. Martha may not be as catty about it as Rose was, but she's coming awfully close.

Anyway, it was a great, heartbreaking conclusion. John's indecisiveness and his inner battle... in a way I think that there's a part of the Doctor who would have loved to turn his back on the universe and hide in the little life he'd invented for himself, surrounded by the comfortable lie of friends, work, and a family of his own. Poor John. Poor Doctor.

And can I say again how completely horrifying I found Harry Lloyd? *shudders* The mannerisms and that godawful smile, like someone pulling wires at the corners of his mouth.

sueKay
June 2nd, 2007, 04:50 PM
Fantastic episode...loved it!

Alipeeps
June 2nd, 2007, 06:30 PM
That was so poignant. The bit where Joan asked him if anyone would have died if he hadn't come, and his face changed completely; that was just the saddest thing.

And brilliantly creepy. The voiceover from the Son of the Family, describing their various imprisonments... :eek:

That was seriously dark, wasn't it? And I loved it! I think those little glimpses of the darker, vengeful side of the doctor are wonderful (like in The Christmas Bride), particularly when contrasted with the generally lighter overall feel of the show. The Dr is so deliberately charming and cheeky and it's easy to forget just what he is: that he has lived for so long and seen so much and had to make terrible choices.



The guy saying TARDIS in a farmer's accent was brilliant and the guy playing the evil kid I thought was brilliantly menacing, possibly the most chilling bad guy I've seen on Who with the possible exception of the Empty Child.

Edit: When the Doctor entered te Familly's space ship and started pressing buttons I knew he was just pretending to be John. Next week's episode looks really odd.

Baines was one of the creepiest damn villains ever - amazing acting job there.. and when you see the guy being himself on Confidential, he's so different that it doesn't seem possible that he could be this freaky, malevolent creature. He really made the viewer believe that he was an evil alien lifeform living inside a human being.


Next weeks looks like it will just be a 'filler-episode' though. Anyone else agree?


Apparently it's this seasons "Doctor-Lite" episode similar to Love and Monsters Random Shoes in Torchwood.

Damn, that hadn't occured to me until just now but I remember hearing that there would be another "L&M" type ep this season. Why do they need to do that? I know last season it was to give them more time on filming The Satan pit 2-parter etc but, not being funny here and all credit to everyone involved for working long and hard on the show, why is it they have to have a "main character"-lite ep in a series of 13 when US shows - even those with one central character like House - routinely film 20 episodes a season?

I liked L&M as an interesting departure from the show's norms but, honestly, I watch Dr Who for the Doctor and without him the ep didn't really hold my interest. It's not one I've *ever* rewatched since initial viewing.

*sigh*

So I guess in next week's ep all we'll see of the Dr will be the type of "recorded message" type stuff we saw in the trailer?

Shipperahoy
June 2nd, 2007, 08:25 PM
That was just completely brilliant! While I love the funny almost bouncy Doctor, David Tennant does powerful and angry so very well. It really drove home all that the Doctor has been through in his lifetimes and how lonely he truly is, and most likely always will be. The storyline also makes me wonder if there will come a point where the Doctor will decide that he's had enough and choose to become human and live out the rest of his life in peace. It's an interesting thought.

I agree with Shadow about Martha though. The infatuation stuff is getting old. The thing that bugs me the most though is that at least with Rose there was a true sense of friendship and comraderie between the two of them despite Rose's posessiveness and infatuation while with Martha and the Doctor it really seems like half the time he doesn't even particularly care for her.

Madeleine
June 2nd, 2007, 08:30 PM
I think the redeeminig features of Martha's infatuation are that the Doctor *doesn't* reciprocate, and that Martha is self-aware. She's not kidding herself, and I get the impression that she wouldn't normally be the sort to moon over a bloke who was oblivious to her - too much self-respect. On the other hand, he's not just a bloke, he's fire and ice and wonderfull and all that ;)

I hope she gets over it, but I don't mind the way it's being played half as much as I minded the Rose/Doctor stuff.

Willow'sCat
June 2nd, 2007, 11:09 PM
It did feel a bit odd when The Doctor was carrying out their imprisonments. Knocking someone into a collapsing galaxy, trapping a young person in every mirror in Britain, weighing someone down with chains then pushing them into a pit or something and freezing someone else to make them a scarecrow.Well for me that goes back to The Five Doctors (it was that ep right?) the whole immortality thing, TimeLords are not big on that, so I give The Doctor the right to carry out that kind of "punishment" it all fits nicely in with canon. ;)

Anyways... brilliant ep, in so many many ways. I am still trying to form a coherent response! :D

Commander Ivanova
June 3rd, 2007, 12:16 AM
I seem to be in agreement with the majority here that it was one of the better eps so far.
Minor query: If the Family only had 3 months to live unless they consumed the essence of a Time Lord, why did the Doc feel the need to condemn them to everlasting imprisonments? Revenge, spite, badness, to make himself feel better?
Liked the idea of the girl in the mirror, something of the Eastern European fairytale about that one.
Martha's semi-unrequited crush is getting a bit annoying, they need to give that a rest. Otherwise, very happy here.

Madeleine
June 3rd, 2007, 12:24 AM
I seem to be in agreement with the majority here that it was one of the better eps so far.
Minor query: If the Family only had 3 months to live unless they consumed the essence of a Time Lord, why did the Doc feel the need to condemn them to everlasting imprisonments? Revenge, spite, badness, to make himself feel better?

I think it was because he couldn't get away from them. At the start of the story he was in his position of strength - in his TARDIS - and yet they were gaining on him and only a desperate measure would hide him. By the end he was in a weaker position by far: The Family were holding an English village hostage, not to mention standing guard on his TARDIS and keeping him from it.

He let them take the lives because they were going to get them anyway, but this way it was done on his terms, allowing him to remedy the situation - at least, for humankind.

Willow'sCat
June 3rd, 2007, 12:41 AM
I seem to be in agreement with the majority here that it was one of the better eps so far.
Minor query: If the Family only had 3 months to live unless they consumed the essence of a Time Lord, why did the Doc feel the need to condemn them to everlasting imprisonments? Revenge, spite, badness, to make himself feel better?
Liked the idea of the girl in the mirror, something of the Eastern European fairytale about that one.Well as I said in my post, TimeLords do not like immortality, that is basically what The Family was after, didn't the women say if John gave them the watch that The Family would be forever *or something* and 'cause destruction on planet after planet?

Well in The Five Doctors (I am sure it was that ep) in the end the TimeLord there who was seeking immortality was indeed given it, via being entrapped in the tomb (thingy, yeah I am all with the tech talk :p ) to me this is an continuation of what a TimeLord has to do when faced with people/aliens/beings that will seek out immortality. Whether they would have died soon or not is irrelevant they chose their path.... ;)

I didn't despite the words of the young man feel this was about The Doctor seeking revenge... yes it is squicky the way he goes and visits the little girl, but hey he has to make sure they are all where they are meant to be. ;)



Martha's semi-unrequited crush is getting a bit annoying, they need to give that a rest.Here here. ;)

scarimor
June 3rd, 2007, 01:31 AM
The scene which showed a possible normal life for John Smith was interesting, married with children, and the eventual old age 10th Doctor.
Shades of The Last Temptation of Christ there.

Something I really like about Cornell's work is the strength he gives to his female characters, while at the same time maintaining the realism of time/place/social conventions. It's so easy to slip into crass with the subject, but Cornell handles it with subtley, exposes the standards with irony, and lets his characters shine. Martha and Matron were perfect.

Alipeeps
June 3rd, 2007, 03:47 AM
I seem to be in agreement with the majority here that it was one of the better eps so far.
Minor query: If the Family only had 3 months to live unless they consumed the essence of a Time Lord, why did the Doc feel the need to condemn them to everlasting imprisonments? Revenge, spite, badness, to make himself feel better?
Liked the idea of the girl in the mirror, something of the Eastern European fairytale about that one.
Martha's semi-unrequited crush is getting a bit annoying, they need to give that a rest. Otherwise, very happy here.

I think that's what the Baines VO at the end meant when he said that by hiding from them, he was being kind. He could have defeated them all along, could have done something horrible to each of them, as he eventually did, but he tried to hide and to let them just die out as the option that was kinder to them. They took away that option by tracking him down and forcing him to deal with them permanently.

That was my understanding anyway...

Reefgirl
June 3rd, 2007, 04:18 AM
This was a fabulous episode and boy am I glad I watched it alone as I pretty much blubbed all the way through it, I haven't shed this many tears since the last scene in the last episode of Blackadder Goes Forth (Weird I know)

David Tennant was beyond brilliant in this, usually I can't abide Angsty Doctor but this was extremely well done and in all the right places to boot. Bains was definatly one of the creepiest villans so far, probably because he was 'Human' or at least started as human, pretty much like the boy in Empty Child who,in my book anyway, is the creepiest monster yet. I loved the ending with Old Tim at the Remeberence Day service. Apart from Martha's crush on the Doctor, I can't find a single thing wrong with the episode, here's hoping they keep Paul Cornell on the writing staff for many more years to come, if that's the standard of his work. As for next week, Meh.

Edit I also want to say the use of the music in both episodes was excellent, especially the Hymn played as the boys attacked the scarecrows, poignent

MechaThor
June 3rd, 2007, 05:34 AM
DAM!

This has got to be the best episode since the one with Satan! The ending was just the best part of it when we see a truly dark side of the doctor. Showing the family of blood just what "living forever" is like and why its a curse which they will soon regret.
However would some1 not eventually see theres a boy traped in a scarecrow outfit in the middile of a feild?.
The march of the scarecrow soilders on the school was also very well done as well as the old man at the end.

Can't wait till next week as isn't next week... the one where Jack returns? "DOCTOR!"

TheWarrior
June 3rd, 2007, 05:40 AM
Can't wait till next week as isn't next week... the one where Jack returns? "DOCTOR!"

Nope, its Saturday 16th episode where Jack returns - episode 11

Reefgirl
June 3rd, 2007, 05:44 AM
Can't wait till next week as isn't next week... the one where Jack returns? "DOCTOR!"

No
It's the week after that, an episode called Utopia

Anubis69
June 3rd, 2007, 05:55 AM
"... He was being kind."

Amazing. When that scene started, I cracked a smile at The Doctor dispensing justice, but that quickly changed to, I guess, shock. It was just so cold and heartless... yet completely justified. I also remembered FOB's quote from another thread. ("Torchwood is the adult one, Doctor Who is the mature one") That reminds me, I need to green him for that... Anyway, it was completely true.

The episode was unbelievably good. That scene with the Doctor, Martha and the old... Tim (aye, that's it) was amazing as well. Very emotional.

Overall, between 0 and 2Pi radians, I give it one full rotation and my own personal "hooray"!

ETA: David Tennant. That guy can act!

Major Clanger
June 3rd, 2007, 07:46 AM
Wow, that was some ep!

I was convinced that the wee fellow (Tim?) was a TimeLord, but then I managed to convince myself out of it just before the ep started.

And Baines... how creepy was that sideways talking? I didn't recognise the actor at all, which is good because I have to have a lie-down in a darkened room if I think about Robin Hood.

arghhhh!

ShadowMaat
June 3rd, 2007, 12:15 PM
BTW, I notice at one point during the "evacuation" there was mention of a "Miss Cooper." Probably just a coincidence, but it still amused me.

Missster.Freeman
June 3rd, 2007, 12:43 PM
Wow! That was bloody brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!

As I was watching the boys shoot down the scarecrows, it was a sad reminder of the terrible loss of life during World War One. Hardly a city, town or village in Scotland, England, Wales, Ireland and the Commonwealth nations were left untouched. The tragic thing is, all those young men and boys - as depicted in this episode - all thought they had joined up to go on a great adventure. Instead, they found themselves in the middle of a war on an industrial scale.

Smiling boy Baines/Son of Mine was very creepy, but he had me laughing out loud when he and the headmaster had a face off in the courtyard. It was like watching a "Suits You" sketch from the Fast Show. When Baines said "Headmaster Sir! Good evening sir. Come to give me a caning sir? Would you like that sir?", the only line missing was, "Ooh. Ooh, suits you sir!" :D I don't know if it was intentional or not, but the lines sounded uncannily familiar.

That aside, the final ten minutes or so were very powerful indeed and the flash of what the Doctor's life could've been had he remained as John Smith was touching. And that was a great moment at the end with the Doctor and Martha dropping in to pay their respects to the now elderly Tim. Very moving.

I rank this now as one of my favourite episodes, almost right up there with "The Empty Child" and "The Doctor Dances." :zelenka25:

Flyboy
June 3rd, 2007, 01:26 PM
"... He was being kind."

Amazing. When that scene started, I cracked a smile at The Doctor dispensing justice, but that quickly changed to, I guess, shock. It was just so cold and heartless... yet completely justified. I also remembered FOB's quote from another thread. ("Torchwood is the adult one, Doctor Who is the mature one" Which reminds me, I need to green him for that...) Completely true.

Unbelievably good. That scene with the Doctor, Martha and the old... Tim (aye, that's it) was amazing as well. Very emotional.

Overall, on a scale of 2Pi, I give it one full rotation and my own personal "hooray"!

ETA: David Tennant. That guy can act!
Thanks. :)

I must say, S3 is shaping up to be my favourite yet. With only two mediocre episodes (the dalek ones) and no lovesick Rose, this has been great. There seems to be a high quality of scripting and the acting is top notch. It feels like S1, when everything was fresh and unexplored. Even Rose in S1 was enjoyable. With only four more eps left, one of them (Utopia) almost guaranteed to please, it's going to be difficult to dissapoint now. Here's hoping "Blink" does better than "L&M".

Phantom Limb
June 3rd, 2007, 06:52 PM
wow, thats more like it.
what a great ending IMO so dark, the Timelord definition of immortality needs a little work, lol.
a bit too ironic for some peoples tastes im sure.:D
it does fit with the five doctors thing though, Timelords not looking too kindly on folk who want to live forever as some other people have said, nice continuity.

Am i right in thinking this is an adaptation of an existing story? without one of RTD's "shopping lists" pigmen! the empire state building! spoons! a talking cat!
and i wonder why some past eps have suffered story wise.:mckay:

Although the kids reluctance to give back the watch he STOLE got kind of annoying, especially when he knew what it was, but meh, what a great villain, i dont think i saw the guy that played Baines blink once throughout the entire thing! creepy.
such a great mix of all the things that makes who brilliant and David Tennant absolutely acted his face off in this one, Troughton is still my favourite Doctor but damn can Tennant act, love the fact that he was rubbish as a human as Martha said.
its the first time ive seen on screen the difference between the limits within a Human and the limitlessness within a Timelord shown in one person thanks to Tennants acting of the two characters, and the writing of course.
his scene with the matron (cant remember her name, d'oh!) at the end is a perfect example of that.

My one question to new who is, is there ever going to be a companion that doesnt fall in love with the Doctor within five minutes of seeing how big the tardis is on the inside?:P
i mean how would it have been in the old series if every female companion fell in love with him? a minor annoyance, for some reason i dont think it becomes Martha's character to be swooning over the doc like rose did, it just doesnt fit for me.

however, part 2
10/10 and then some!

ShadowMaat
June 3rd, 2007, 08:21 PM
a minor annoyance, for some reason i dont think it becomes Martha's character to be swooning over the doc like rose did, it just doesnt fit for me.
Oh yes, I agree with that. Martha should be above this sort of stuff; she should know better. And the first person who says "you can't control love" is going to have a plastic Dalek shoved down their throat. Or perhaps in another orifice. :P

Martha should be able to act a bit more adult about her "feelings" for the Doctor instead of resorting to Rose-like behavior. Or maybe that's the only way the writers know how to to write a woman in "love." :rolleyes:

Reefgirl
June 4th, 2007, 12:14 AM
Oh yes, I agree with that. Martha should be above this sort of stuff; she should know better. And the first person who says "you can't control love" is going to have a plastic Dalek shoved down their throat. Or perhaps in another orifice. :P

Martha should be able to act a bit more adult about her "feelings" for the Doctor instead of resorting to Rose-like behavior. Or maybe that's the only way the writers know how to to write a woman in "love." :rolleyes:
I'm not sure whether I've said this here (So if I have bear with me) The Shippiness is there purely to appease the American audience, American Sci Fi now comes with a prerequisite amount of UST and unrequited love, we've seen it with Jack and Sam, Picard and Dr Crusher, Marcus Cole and Susan Ivanova, Commander Adama and President Roslin and Mulder and Scully, among others. The BBC want Dr Who to succeed in America so they've (for some reason) upped the shippiness, in the first series (The Christopher Ecclestone one) the relationship between the Doctor and Rose was perfect, they were mates, if anything the Doctor fell in love with Rose first butkept his feelings in context, probably the lonliness getting the better of him. RTD started laying it on with a trowel in the second series with Rose mooning over the 'new' Doctor and him mooning over her, I started thinking to myself 'For God's sake, have a shag and get back to decent storylines' now with Martha it's just pathetic, why can't the writers do something different and have a companion and Dr relationship that is just friendship and leave the UST to SG Atlantis and BSG

ShadowMaat
June 4th, 2007, 04:24 AM
Every time complaints about shippiness are mentioned, American audiences get blamed. Does anyone know for a fact that producers are forced to add romance into their stories, or is it just a suspicion?

Madeleine
June 4th, 2007, 04:33 AM
I don't know. I do know that all the SFish show's I've watched that didn't have romance between lead characters - 26+ years of Doctor Who, six years of Red Dwarf, four years of Blakes Seven, one year of Ultraviolet (I still miss that show), The Prisoner, Sapphire & Steel, The Avengers - all were British. Honourable exception: Supernatural, which is US-made.

But perhaps it's about the cast sizes: most of the above have a small number of regulars, and when you have only a few people romance isn't terribly likely, whereas in a BSG-sized cast it'd be incredibly peculiar if there was none.

Doctor Who ought to be in the no-romance category IMO. Having the entire regular cast in love with each other is too distracting from SF :)

Tanduay
June 4th, 2007, 04:38 AM
Yup best episode by far.

Most of the highlights have been written about earlier but I have 3 points.

At the risk of being the unfortunate reciever of a plastic dalek, love is complex. There is romantic or eros love which is what everyone is assuming Martha is exhibiting. Dont be so fast. There is also Phileo or brotherly love and agape or selfless love.

What was in that kid's red baloon? No way a farm family could get helium in 1913 for a toy. While it had been discovered and experimented on it was not until 1921 that the USN flew their 1st helium airship. So it had to be hydrogen, (hot air would not work) ah what a great toy for a kid. "Here you are little girl, go play and blow your arms off." hehe

The VO about the punishments the Dr handed out seemed rushed, but IMO it was worth it to squeeze in the WW1 scene and the rememberance parade.

BruTak
June 4th, 2007, 04:43 AM
It's pretty much been discussed to desth over on Outpost Gallifrey, but the concensus is that in 1913, the little girl's balloon would have been filled with hydrogen.

Reefgirl
June 4th, 2007, 04:51 AM
Every time complaints about shippiness are mentioned, American audiences get blamed. Does anyone know for a fact that producers are forced to add romance into their stories, or is it just a suspicion?
Suspicion, as Madeleine said, how come Classic Who, Blake's 7, Red Dwarf and other short lived British Sci Fi managed to do so well without over doing romance

Madeleine
June 4th, 2007, 04:56 AM
Although I think I'm right that other than Blake's 7 the unifying feature of no-romo shows is the small cast rather than the Britishness. Maybe the cause of the inevitability of romance is not the taste of Americans but the wealth of the Americans who can afford larger casts and, often, longer runs.

Reefgirl
June 4th, 2007, 05:12 AM
Although I think I'm right that other than Blake's 7 the unifying feature of no-romo shows is the small cast rather than the Britishness. Maybe the cause of the inevitability of romance is not the taste of Americans but the wealth of the Americans who can afford larger casts and, often, longer runs.
Yeah but X Files didn't exactly have a huge cast and the shippiness was laid on a foot thick,

ShadowMaat
June 4th, 2007, 06:28 AM
Suspicion, as Madeleine said, how come Classic Who, Blake's 7, Red Dwarf and other short lived British Sci Fi managed to do so well without over doing romance

Maybe the fact that they were short lived says something. ;) Well, for Blake's and Dwarf, anyway, I don't think anyone in their right mind would called Who a short lived series. But I'm digressing on a joke...

Are there any current British shows that don't have a romantic element involved? Or has the American Conspiracy spread across ALL of television and EVERY show is affected?

Anubis69
June 4th, 2007, 06:35 AM
Life On Mars, Primeval, Doctor Who, Deal Or No Deal... IT'S EVERYWHERE!!!!!

BruTak
June 4th, 2007, 06:36 AM
Define current?

Flyboy
June 4th, 2007, 06:39 AM
Ermm.... Red Dwarf had an element of romance in its later seasons. Though when you consider it's Lister, perhaps romance isn't the right term...

I don't think romance in shows is such an issue or an American thing, but romance being so obvious, that's the problem.

BruTak
June 4th, 2007, 06:43 AM
There was even a distinct whiff of shippyness about New Captain Scarlet.

Capt. Scarlet fancied the pants off Destiny Angel. While Capt. Blue obviously had a thing for sexy communications officer Lt. Green (who's a girl in the new series BTW).

Reefgirl
June 4th, 2007, 06:51 AM
British Sci Fi shows? Shows in General? or Soaps? because I very rarely watch The 4 main channels

the_fours
June 4th, 2007, 08:15 AM
Great episode, great scenes, excellent inner turmoil. Cant fault it.

As for the way the companions have fall in love with the Doctor, it has been shown in previous episodes, i will admit though it is always best done with the odd glance here and there rather that vocal omissions.

Also people Outpost Gallifrey has stated that the next episode is more of a horror story than sc-fi so i think (hope) it will be really really good.

Don't blink, and don't turn away.

Easter Lily
June 4th, 2007, 08:25 AM
Well in The Five Doctors (I am sure it was that ep) in the end the TimeLord there who was seeking immortality was indeed given it, via being entrapped in the tomb (thingy, yeah I am all with the tech talk :p ) to me this is an continuation of what a TimeLord has to do when faced with people/aliens/beings that will seek out immortality. Whether they would have died soon or not is irrelevant they chose their path.... ;)
The Tomb of Rassillon. ;)


I didn't despite the words of the young man feel this was about The Doctor seeking revenge... yes it is squicky the way he goes and visits the little girl, but hey he has to make sure they are all where the y are meant to be. ;)
I don't think Baines thought it was revenge either. It was more along the lines of "the Doctor held out as long as he could but we forced his hand".

ShadowMaat
June 4th, 2007, 08:54 AM
Define current?

Any prime time British shows within the past decade. Or any prime time shows from ANY country other than the US.

Reefgirl
June 4th, 2007, 09:00 AM
Any prime time British shows within the past decade. Or any prime time shows from ANY country other than the US.

Ye Gods, now you're asking, I only watch Top Gear and that's factual

ShadowMaat
June 4th, 2007, 09:14 AM
I've started a separate thread for it here: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=44438 since it's only loosely related to Family of Blood and I want to discuss stuff beyond Who.

BruTak
June 4th, 2007, 09:18 AM
Ye Gods, now you're asking, I only watch Top Gear and that's factual

And doesn't Richard Hammond look like David Tennant? ;)

Reefgirl
June 4th, 2007, 09:23 AM
Very much so, a few people have commented on the similarities

BruTak
June 4th, 2007, 09:41 AM
And doesn't Russel T. Davis look like he's been animated by Aardman Studios (it's the teeth y'see)?

"It's the wrong TARDIS Gromit!" :D

Tanduay
June 4th, 2007, 10:00 AM
There was even a distinct whiff of shippyness about New Captain Scarlet.

Capt. Scarlet fancied the pants off Destiny Angel. While Capt. Blue obviously had a thing for sexy communications officer Lt. Green (who's a girl in the new series BTW).


What? what? what? A new captain scarlet? I am a bit off the beaten track here in the Philippines. Have you some links?

BruTak
June 4th, 2007, 10:05 AM
Here's a link to the Wikipedia page -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_captain_scarlet


What DVD Region is the Phillipenes BTW? You should be able to get both seasons of the show on DVD.

Pitry
June 4th, 2007, 10:54 AM
Beautiful.

I just loev DT as an actor - but it's episodes liek this when I feel I'm still not giving him enough credit. He was so brilliant - and the best part was that I didn't even notice just how much the Doctor and John Smith are differnet til he made the switch.

Fangirling over David Tennant aside, this episode was brilliant in just about every respect. I adore it.

Martha-wise, BTW, it's not just that she's aware theDocotr will never feel for her what she feels for him - she does want to see him happy, cue the scene in the end when he comes back and she asks him if he wants her to go and tlak to Joan. That wuol show that the key to their relationship is friendship and trust, rather than her being in love with him. It'd have killed her had Joan said yes adn joined them, prolly, but she was willing to have it.

The endnig... eek, yup, that was great. The coldness of the Doctor and his punishment of the family - and yeah, the "he was being kind" bit... loved it.


I don't think Baines thought it was revenge either. It was more along the lines of "the Doctor held out as long as he could but we forced his hand".

Yeah, I think so too :)

And I must say, they're going an extra length this year to show how much of an alien he can be at times - I think that "I can be everything Jophn Smith was" commen tot Joan was just about as insensitive as the "Riose would know" comment in the Shakespeare Code. Sometimes you jsut wanna smack him, dontcha....

Oooh, and "Baines, Jeremy Baines" gets the best villian of the millenium award. Loved him. To bits. :)

lord-anubis
June 4th, 2007, 11:38 AM
Every time complaints about shippiness are mentioned, American audiences get blamed.

i was just about to say some thing about that. all most every time i come here to post about ep i see some one blames us for the shippiess. I don't like the ship stuff with martha either. i think its just how shows are now i don't understand doing just so it well do better in america. the people who really like that stuff mostly likey wouldent want to watch doctor who. so it be a waste of time to try to get them to watch just by puting more romace in it.




I think that's what the Baines VO at the end meant when he said that by hiding from them, he was being kind. He could have defeated them all along, could have done something horrible to each of them, as he eventually did, but he tried to hide and to let them just die out as the option that was kinder to them. They took away that option by tracking him down and forcing him to deal with them permanently.

That was my understanding anyway

thats how i saw it to i loved that sceen it was a bit dark it reminded me of the 7th doctor for some reason its his probly some thing he would do to. also i liked when the kid was explaning the doctor.

He's fire and Ice
And Rage
He's like the night and the storm in the heart of the sun

He's ancient and Forever
He burns at the centre of time
And he can see the turn of the universe

Willow'sCat
June 4th, 2007, 04:36 PM
Every time complaints about shippiness are mentioned, American audiences get blamed. Does anyone know for a fact that producers are forced to add romance into their stories, or is it just a suspicion?There is zero proof ;) if you ask me, it is all the BRITISH SOAPS that are to blame. I mean they took The Bill and turned a good old fashioned 'bobby on the beat' show into the new East-bloody-enders!

:( I miss the old Bill. :P Tosh!

Willow'sCat
June 4th, 2007, 05:01 PM
And doesn't Richard Hammond look like David Tennant? ;) :S :p



He's fire and Ice
And Rage
He's like the night and the storm in the heart of the sun

He's ancient and Forever
He burns at the centre of time
And he can see the turn of the universeThat to me was too close to Buffy's The Slayer speech that Giles would rattle off. I know other shows did similar things so it isn't new, but these days that is all I am reminded of and it felt silly and unnecessary to have it, it felt like something forced, like the show is trying to re-write history, to make it somehow trendy, to give it a mythology it doesn't need. It has it's own mythology without having to re-market it to what... an American audience? :P :D *runs away*

I just feel if this is the future of Who, the mythology being more important then the stories you can keep it. It is as annoying as the little spiel at the start of Torchwood was... :S

Easter Lily
June 4th, 2007, 06:05 PM
And I must say, they're going an extra length this year to show how much of an alien he can be at times - I think that "I can be everything Jophn Smith was" commen tot Joan was just about as insensitive as the "Riose would know" comment in the Shakespeare Code. Sometimes you jsut wanna smack him, dontcha....

I'm probably stating an unpopular opinion here... but I think it's a breath of fresh air from last year's giggling flirtations with Rose.

Willow'sCat
June 4th, 2007, 06:14 PM
I'm probably stating an unpopular opinion here... but I think it's a breath of fresh air from last year's giggling flirtations with Rose.Yeah but now it just seems like he is playing with her feelings and I don't like that. :cool:

Easter Lily
June 4th, 2007, 11:08 PM
Yeah but now it just seems like he is playing with her feelings and I don't like that. :cool:

I don't quite see it that way but I can see why others might.

Personally I think it boils down to bad writing and the writers trying to foist some more of this crappy companion loveydovey stuff down our throats.
I like Martha but I don't like the way they just keeping harping on her infatuation with the Doctor. Maybe it's a cruel streak in me but I'm glad the Doctor's keeping his distance.

In that regard, the show could possibly do with some fresh blood... (no pun intended)

lord-anubis
June 4th, 2007, 11:39 PM
:S :p

That to me was too close to Buffy's The Slayer speech that Giles would rattle off. I know other shows did similar things so it isn't new, but these days that is all I am reminded of and it felt silly and unnecessary to have it, it felt like something forced, like the show is trying to re-write history, to make it somehow trendy, to give it a mythology it doesn't need. It has it's own mythology without having to re-market it to what... an American audience? :P :D *runs away*

lol i never did watch buffy i did watch angle for a while but the moved it around to much so i stoped watching. as for the speech i just thought it sounded cool :o

Reefgirl
June 5th, 2007, 12:06 AM
There is zero proof ;) if you ask me, it is all the BRITISH SOAPS that are to blame. I mean they took The Bill and turned a good old fashioned 'bobby on the beat' show into the new East-bloody-enders!

:( I miss the old Bill. :P Tosh!
I'd green you Willow but it won't let me so have an unofficial one :D
It was never the same after they got rid of Frank Burnside, I officially stopped watching after the fire that got rid of Inspector Munro

Pitry
June 5th, 2007, 08:09 AM
I don't quite see it that way but I can see why others might.

Personally I think it boils down to bad writing and the writers trying to foist some more of this crappy companion loveydovey stuff down our throats.
I like Martha but I don't like the way they just keeping harping on her infatuation with the Doctor. Maybe it's a cruel streak in me but I'm glad the Doctor's keeping his distance.

In that regard, the show could possibly do with some fresh blood... (no pun intended)

See, I have to disagree. I think they (=RTD) knew exactly what they';re doing with the "giggly flirtation" - and put it there on purpose.
They knew Billie Piper was leaving. They decided to draw the maximum out of it. A part of drawing that maximum is to draw the Doctor and Rose as close toe ach other as possible. I've heard more than once hte "they were so smug at some episodes" arguement - and I agree. But I think that was the point. It definitely it in episodes like Feasr Her or The Idiot's Lantern - and especially The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit, from the first moment when they're doing the "maybe we should go someplace else" to all the extra shippiness.

Just liek this year the extra distance the Doctor is keeping from Martha, and the complete unthoughtfulness about him towardfs her - of course its intentional, because they'er also going somewhere with it, methinks.
That Sun spoiler for the end of the series. Which is why, while I don't believe Freema Agyeman has been sacked from the show, I do believe she leaves at the end of the series, and I did feel that way fromt he get go. The nature of the relationship between MArtha and the Doctor feels -at least to me - as if he's going to lose her, as well. And I'm willing to eat someone's hat if I'm proven wrong (well, I don't have any hats of my own, sorry.)

As for playign with her feeligns, I don't think that. In order to play with her feeligns he needs to do it on purpose. He can't help it that he's a 900 year old alien who sees humans in a very different way than they'd expect - he lieks her, she's wants to travel with him despite being in love with him and knowing he doesn't love her back, so they settle on the "pretend it doesn;t exist" just like they did at the end of Family of Blood. Whic is the bes thing they can do under the circumstances, cos deciding "oh you're in love with me so I'm gonna drop you back home and ignore yuo ever existed" would be worse, IMO.

Elinor
June 6th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Oooh, and "Baines, Jeremy Baines" gets the best villian of the millenium award. Loved him. To bits. :)

He was fantastic wasn't he? That's the best baddie Dr. Who has had since...well...since I can remember.

They really need to have him 'return' in a future episode!

:)

Hulabaloo
June 6th, 2007, 10:07 AM
That's the cool thing. He hasn't been essentially killed. Just frozen. So it is possible for him to come back. He was a great baddie.

P-90_177
June 6th, 2007, 12:56 PM
that was a beautiful episode and a great two parter. You feel so sorry for John Smith in the end. They made such a loveable character out of him and made him just as charming as the doctor but in a different way. You also feel for the matron as she has to give up her love and even martha for her struggle and how she feels about the doctor.

The family of blood were also a fantastic enemy. I thought they were a bit silly in the first ep but in this one they're great. sinister and creepy and i can picture a group of small children cowering beghind their sofas becasue of them.

Their fate was also fantastic. Even though the doctor is this kindly adventeurer most of the time you gotta love it when he gets angry and do things that his previous incarnations would never do......i'm not even sure the 9th doctor would be so ruthless in some of his dealings. His eyes as you see him giving each of the family a new inprissonment were just so full of darkness and hate. It really is a testament to how fantastic an actor David Tennant is. One minute he can be all cheery and happy, the next sobbing like a baby and then looking like he's going to kill someone.

I think these last few episodes have really shown off his acting skills in every way.

Pitry
June 6th, 2007, 02:24 PM
He was fantastic wasn't he? That's the best baddie Dr. Who has had since...well...since I can remember.

They really need to have him 'return' in a future episode!

:)

Super super fun!

;)

in all honesty, I don't think they shoudl bring him back. It'd be.... wrong. But he was a fantastic villain. :)

P-90_177
June 6th, 2007, 02:30 PM
Super super fun!

;)

in all honesty, I don't think they shoudl bring him back. It'd be.... wrong. But he was a fantastic villain. :)

agreed. if they brought him back i think it would cheapen the doctors revenge and the fact that he endeavored to trap them for eternity.

Anubis69
June 6th, 2007, 04:19 PM
His eyes as you see him giving each of the family a new inprissonment were just so full of darkness and hate.
I just watched it again. I agree. He looks at them all fairly coldly, but that look he gives to "Baines" is truly chilling.
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3388/doctorfx0.jpg

It's better in motion, but you get the idea...

Reefgirl
June 7th, 2007, 12:09 AM
His expression in that looks more pitying, in my opinion anyway

Anubis69
June 7th, 2007, 05:09 AM
Looking at the picture by itself I thought that as well but in motion (when he turns away) his gaze remains fixed on Baines and his brow lowers a bit. I couldn't get a good pic of that...

Reefgirl
June 7th, 2007, 05:37 AM
I'll have a look on my copy

Edit unfortunatly my caps are awful

Mattathias2.0
June 7th, 2007, 04:38 PM
I thought this episode was excellent.

Whoever plays Baines is an excellent actor. He brings alot of emotion to the character.

To be honest, this was dark, but not as dark as the ending of The Runaway Bride. That to me was the darkest so far. If anything, he was nice to The Family.

Mattathias

the_fours
June 8th, 2007, 12:47 AM
To be honest, this was dark, but not as dark as the ending of The Runaway Bride. That to me was the darkest so far. If anything, he was nice to The Family.

Mattathias

Actually, in the ep he said he was trying to be nice to them by letting them die off. But they were so obsessed with hunting him down in order to achieve immortality he had no choice but to give it to them.

Yes killing the racnoss was dark, but i think immortality is something a lot darker, and worse than death.

Madeleine
June 8th, 2007, 11:26 AM
Who's read the book? Ias the book as good as this?

Reefgirl
June 8th, 2007, 03:17 PM
It's on the BBC Dr Who site

Madeleine
June 8th, 2007, 03:30 PM
Do you know where abouts? http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/books.shtml

I've scanned this page but not found it. (Unless the book had a different title?)

Reefgirl
June 8th, 2007, 04:22 PM
Here you are http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2007/12/02/45271.shtml

BruTak
June 8th, 2007, 04:26 PM
Am I the only one who remembers the book having different cover art?

ShadowMaat
June 8th, 2007, 05:55 PM
Am I the only one who remembers the book having different cover art?

According to the little snippet thingy I think that's one of the things they spiffed up.

BruTak
June 9th, 2007, 01:11 AM
*Looks at cover art for PDF download version*

"Spiffed up", you say? As I recall, the original cover art showed the Seventh Doctor in teacher's gown and morterboard cap standing next to a schoolboy who was blazing away with a Vickers Gun.

I know which I prefer.

scarimor
June 9th, 2007, 02:38 AM
Actually, in the ep he said he was trying to be nice to them by letting them die off. But they were so obsessed with hunting him down in order to achieve immortality he had no choice but to give it to them.
He did have a choice - he could have let them die once he'd defeated them. He made them immortal by trapping them. He made them pay.


Yes killing the racnoss was dark, but i think immortality is something a lot darker, and worse than death.
That kind of immortality, definitely. This episode reminded us of the sharp edge to the Doctor.

ShadowMaat
June 9th, 2007, 07:20 AM
Their idea of spiffed up. :P

I'm debating whether to download it or to try and buy a paper version. I tend not to like reading things online and it'd be a massive waste of paper to print it out. Especially since my ink is running low. ;)

Madeleine
June 10th, 2007, 10:43 PM
He did have a choice - he could have let them die once he'd defeated them. He made them immortal by trapping them. He made them pay.


I don't see him as having that much vindictiveness; handing out an eternal punishment just to punish. I think that just by finding him and being in his presence they were able to take the immortality, and once that was done he had to keep them from hurting innocents and trapping them was the only way.

scarimor
June 11th, 2007, 01:19 AM
I don't see him as having that much vindictiveness;
Oh I do. Not so much vindictiveness - that's a rather base, human-like emtion and the Doctor is not human - but a sense of justice which is both moral and alien. Colin Baker's Doctor shoved a man into an acid bath. They were fighting, but still...


handing out an eternal punishment just to punish. I think that just by finding him and being in his presence they were able to take the immortality, and once that was done he had to keep them from hurting innocents and trapping them was the only way.
I didn't see a point at which they got his immortality. They didn't find him so much as he went to find them after he regained his Doctor-hood.

And the language imagery used by the boy to describe the Doctor is pretty fierce at times.

The Doctor is a hero but not harmless. Collatoral damage surrounds him, and it feels right that he wants his enemies to pay for it.

ShadowMaat
June 11th, 2007, 04:36 AM
It's interesting to see how the book differs from the show, particularly on this point. (spoilers for the book) Some of the Family was killed- but then the school was also bombed, killing hundreds of the students. The Doctor also had a trick by having his "Smith" persona stored in the Pod so that when one of the two survivors used it he wound up with Smith's personality who then fought with the other Family member. There was an extra bit of weirdness that muddled things for me (something involving Champions and Death and a place outside reality) but I think it wound up with "Smith" dying and the two Family members being trapped in the Pod which the Doctor then sent to somewhere for safekeeping.

Another Family member (I couldn't keep them straight in the book other than Balloon Girl) wound up in military prison which worked until someone apparently forgot not to give him meat and he changed himself into a cow which was summarily ground up with all the other cows. Or something like that.[/spoiler]

The main elements were still there and I still love the end result from the eps, although there are a few things from the book I wish had made it over. Particularly the whole issue of love and the Doctor. Especially since it's much more emphasized in the book that the Doctor can't/doesn't love "on such a small scale." But then I'm very anti-ship, so that appeals to me. :P

MagnoliaAnaglypta
June 14th, 2007, 01:43 PM
I think the redeeminig features of Martha's infatuation are that the Doctor *doesn't* reciprocate, and that Martha is self-aware. She's not kidding herself, and I get the impression that she wouldn't normally be the sort to moon over a bloke who was oblivious to her - too much self-respect. On the other hand, he's not just a bloke, he's fire and ice and wonderfull and all that ;)

I hope she gets over it, but I don't mind the way it's being played half as much as I minded the Rose/Doctor stuff.

I don't mind the Martha/10 dynamic at all. For one, I don't think it's being played all that strongly, and doesn't overshadow the rest of any of the epsiodes to me, for another, I think it's actually a much more mature reflection on the situation than the Rose/Doctor EVER was.

Towards the end of her tenure I must admit that I was beginning to find Rose's teenage sulky faces and moods to be rather wearing, and her occasionally coquettish behaviour towards the Doctor to get him to do what she wanted a little creepy - it was as if that relationship couldn't really decide what it wanted to be - a teenage girl with clear daddy issues travelling with an older man, or a realationship where two people genuinely loved and were committed to each other. The problem with the latter was that I couldn't quite come to terms with it. A 900 plus Time Lord is completely besotted with this girl why? If Rose had acted more grown up it might have been more believable to me. I thought she had a great effect on the Doctor, as she came along and clearly brought a lightness to him when he was in a very dark place, but frankly, a Labarador puppy could have done that...

No, I much prefer the idea of this human woman, a little more mature both age wise and outlook, I think, than Rose, developing a strong attraction for him and having to come to terms with it and realise that she CAN be his friend and confidante instead. To be honest, I think he misled her atrociously in Smith and Jones - although I'm sure he didn't intend to give her the impressions that he did, that expression on his face as he was waiting for her at the mouth of the alley, and the subsequent exchange could have been interpreted by anybody as a clear 'come-hither' signal, and his protests to the contrary later could easily have been him playing hard to get.

No, I think Martha has woken up to the point that not only does he not want a relationship of that sort with her, but after Family of Blood I think she's realised that as a Time Lord he's simply not capable of understanding what it means. But feelings like that, once developed, are hard to control, and I think she's doing a pretty good job of holding herself together with some dignity while she tries to fight what after all are some pretty understandable feelings!

The relationship overall is far more complex than that between Doctor and Rose, and I think it's fortunate that they've got a couple of smashing actors capable of pulling it off, and developing it into something interesting.

Now watch me eat my words after the next three episodes (gulp)

MmmmMcKAy
August 21st, 2007, 09:24 AM
Great episode...I felt bad for Matron. It struck me as odd that The Doctor would ask her to join him, almost like he was trying to convince her they could be together when he knows darn well they can't. She was smart enough to know better, though.

Baines and balloon girl were creepy, especially Baines. And I like the young lad with the watch too.

Once again, I say...boy does Martha have it bad for The Doctor.;)

Trek_Girl42
August 25th, 2007, 09:52 PM
This episode was amazing- makes my top three of the series just behind The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, and The Girl in the Fireplace. Such fantastic acting from David Tennant that words really can't do justice to, and the actor who played Baines was perfect- best villain since the gas mask people.

I cried at the end with the rememberance day ceremony, and I really liked the part where The Doctor punished The Family. Eep! :eek:

Best not to get on his bad side. :P

And of course the story with John Smith and the Matron, I got pretty teary over, wonderfully played, showing everything the Doctor can never have, and how he was (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) a bit insensitive with her after turning back.

Fantastic episode, just with all the threads to it- the sad knowing that these boys were basically being groomed to go off to war, the love story between Smith and Matron, Martha's problems with trying to get The Doctor back, The Family, the boy with the watch (Tom was it?), etc. It's basically the opposite of the Dalek two-parter in which none of the plots gelled together properly, and lacked all the wonderful delicacy that this story had.

And I really liked the fact that John Smith was unable to fire the gun.

Trek_Girl42
August 27th, 2007, 03:43 PM
Looking at the CBC website reviews by their kid reviewer.....I can't help but laugh at the fact that he gave this episode 2/5 (lowest of the season) and Evolution of the Daleks 5/5 (highest of the season). :jack_new_anime06:

I guess someone liked those episodes.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
August 27th, 2007, 03:52 PM
Everyones entitled to their opinion I guess, I thought Evoluion of the Daleks was a low point in the series and The Family of Blood was the best episode of new Doctor Who so far.

The ending made me cry, from about the time Tim is in the trenches with the watch jumping out of the way of the missile and right through the rememberence ceremony. Even cried again watching the repeat on BBC3!

ShadowMaat
August 28th, 2007, 10:24 AM
Whatever happened to those fear factor review things, based on the scariness of the eps? Those made for fun reading. ;)

Pitry
August 28th, 2007, 10:55 AM
Whatever happened to those fear factor review things, based on the scariness of the eps? Those made for fun reading. ;)

Those were always jsut on the BBC site, weren't they?

Missster.Freeman
August 28th, 2007, 11:34 AM
Yep, they are still there - The Family of Blood (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episodes/2007/309.shtml). I haven't read these in a while. Heh. Even the adults were getting in on the fun. :D

Angela V
September 2nd, 2007, 04:18 PM
Looking at the CBC website reviews by their kid reviewer.....I can't help but laugh at the fact that he gave this episode 2/5 (lowest of the season) and Evolution of the Daleks 5/5 (highest of the season). :jack_new_anime06:

I guess someone liked those episodes.

Well my son is 7 and prefers the ED episode too! I think it's a kid thing. :) And why don't they have an adult viewer too? I think that would be interesting to compare the two reviews.:)

We got around to watching the 2 parter yesterday since my son was away with relatives.
I liked the fact that the Doctor fell for a normal looking woman. And what I mean about that is that usually in sci-fi the woman is thin, lots of makeup. It's almost as if heaven forbid if the hero falls for a woman with an ounch of meat on her! Though I guess it was actually John Smith. And only Dr. Who can make scarcows scary! The whole young boys have to go to war thing was just so sad! My son kept saying, no boys aren't allowed to do that. He couldn't wrap his brain around that one.
The Martha ship doesn't bother me so much. I can see how she sees the Doctor as exciting because he takes her on all these cool adventures. She's an adventure junkie.

Trek_Girl42
September 2nd, 2007, 05:10 PM
Well my son is 7 and prefers the ED episode too! I think it's a kid thing. :) And why don't they have an adult viewer too? I think that would be interesting to compare the two reviews.:)
That would make more sense. :) We here online who aren't among the kid viwers just take it for granted that everyone hated those episodes. :P


We got around to watching the 2 parter yesterday since my son was away with relatives.
I liked the fact that the Doctor fell for a normal looking woman. And what I mean about that is that usually in sci-fi the woman is thin, lots of makeup. It's almost as if heaven forbid if the hero falls for a woman with an ounch of meat on her! Though I guess it was actually John Smith.
Loved that as well- and she was such a good character, played by a likeable actress. And yes! Not the model-type looking woman! :)


And only Dr. Who can make scarcows scary! The whole young boys have to go to war thing was just so sad! My son kept saying, no boys aren't allowed to do that. He couldn't wrap his brain around that one.

Awww, and that's so wonderful that kids in our country today can't wrap their heads around going to war as teenagers- that it hasn't been a part of our lives. :)

MasySyma
September 7th, 2007, 07:43 PM
A complex dramatic episode at last! It's about time.

I agree with many other folks. The episode was fantastic, and aside from a bit of whining from Martha, it was simply amazing. I find her behavior obnoxious because the flaw doesn't fit with the rest of her character, and with the flaw, she resembles Rose. Most of the time, she is a wonderful improvement over Rose, so I hate to see her backslide.

I enjoyed the ending of the episode, and I liked Joan and how she responded to the Doctor after the switch. I look forward to seeing the episode on DVD. 9.5/10. :)

Coco Pops
September 25th, 2007, 02:31 AM
Life On Mars, Primeval, Doctor Who, Deal Or No Deal... IT'S EVERYWHERE!!!!!


Deal or no deal has romance??????????????

Must be the UK version because it's pretty crap over here

Coco Pops
September 25th, 2007, 02:32 AM
Ye Gods, now you're asking, I only watch Top Gear and that's factual


Top Gear Rules!

Coco Pops
September 25th, 2007, 02:50 AM
This episode was fantstic as well Takes second place to Blink in my books.
and I think Blink was even better then the finale...

The Doctor's punishment of the aliens was effective. But like others
have said if they only had 3 months to live why not just be merciful and
have shot them with one of their own weapons..... Those guns could
have killed them off, and put them out of their misery.

I think they got off lightly with the punishments they got .

I did like the way he blew up their ship, so lively and jolly hehe/


That's another point if he blew the ship up why not let them die

Kales
October 4th, 2007, 01:11 PM
I'm so glad I wasn't the only person to weep at the end of this one :)

huntress
April 4th, 2008, 12:46 PM
Looking at the CBC website reviews by their kid reviewer.....I can't help but laugh at the fact that he gave this episode 2/5 (lowest of the season) and Evolution of the Daleks 5/5 (highest of the season). :jack_new_anime06:

I guess someone liked those episodes.


:scratches head: That is indeed weird because I also did't like "Evolution of the Daleks" at all either. I am not sure if "The Family of the Blood" was my favourite episode (together with Human Nature of course) because I also absolutely love "Blink" and the "Last of the Timelords" trilogy but it is definitely up there as one of my top ten favourite storylines of Doctor Who.

Coco Pops
May 26th, 2008, 07:31 AM
This episode was fantstic as well Takes second place to Blink in my books.
and I think Blink was even better then the finale...

The Doctor's punishment of the aliens was effective. But like others
have said if they only had 3 months to live why not just be merciful and
have shot them with one of their own weapons..... Those guns could
have killed them off, and put them out of their misery.

I think they got off lightly with the punishments they got .

I did like the way he blew up their ship, so lively and jolly hehe/


That's another point if he blew the ship up why not let them die



As mentioned elsewhere I am on the DVDs now and finished this one tonight and again I have to say my mind has not changed. He blew up their ship. He could have taken their weapons off them and left them to die since they only had short time left or just put them out of their misery for good with the ray guns.....

As for Baines I doubt a scarecrow will still be standing in the field long after the Doctor has gone. I wonder what becomes of him? I mean the land would have been developed over the course of time. So you can't tell me they're gonna leave this scarecrow untouched to the present day...

But still a jolly good episode 10/10

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2008, 06:38 AM
Brilliant epsidoe and the cast

i loved the doctor being on the ship and reverting back to the doctor literly within a secind ....he the family got pwn from there

Coco Pops
November 6th, 2008, 09:01 PM
Did Martha bump into the same boy in "Smith and Jones" because in this episode there's a scene of Martha bumping into him in modern Earth....

I don't recall seeing that scene in "smith and jones"

Coco Pops
November 6th, 2008, 09:12 PM
However would some1 not eventually see theres a boy traped in a scarecrow outfit in the middile of a feild?.



That is something that bugged me..... The only thing apart from the other thing I posted about :) Surely someone must eventually bump into this thing in the field, and then what?

gateship15
November 7th, 2008, 03:33 PM
i don't know. i guess they would scream and run away.

Cold Fuzz
January 30th, 2010, 12:41 AM
Incredible episode. :eek: Some of the most incredible lines spoken about a character were heard in this episode: "He's like fire and ice and rage...He's like the night and the storm and the heart of the sun...He's ancient and forever. He burns at the center of time and can see the turn of the universe...And...he's wonderful." Astounding dialogue.

The punishments to the Family--the fury of a Time Lord--were very consistent with the way the Doctor was characterized in the quote above. There was something almost...Biblical about the punishments, which was I think was consistent with the Doctor's characterization as a kind of savior.

The ending was incredibly moving and stirring, especially to have the elder Tim Latimer see the Doctor and Martha again. To have it on Remembrance Day of all days, with Martha and the Doctor wearing poppies and the vicar reciting the Ode of Remembrance was...amazing. Brilliantly done! :cameron:

gateship15
January 30th, 2010, 03:06 PM
i agree with all of what u said. it just goes to show be careful what u wish for they wished to live forever and they got it.

Coco Pops
January 30th, 2010, 04:40 PM
i agree with all of what u said. It just goes to show be careful what u wish for they wished to live forever and they got it.

LOL so if I wish for Amy Pond ito materialize in my house I might get it :D :D


If only that were true........

gateship15
January 30th, 2010, 10:53 PM
lol true. but who knows if u were around the doctor at the time u may well get it

maneth
July 19th, 2012, 10:45 AM
Okay ep, even if the Doctor's decision took far too long to make...

Coco Pops
July 19th, 2012, 06:52 PM
What was the point of The Family? I take it others of their race do the same rot for their kids. What's the deal with them?

FennerMachine
September 3rd, 2012, 01:44 PM
I haven't read all the post in this thread so sorry if someone already posted something similar.
I wondered why would The Doctor punish them in the way he did?
It seemed out of character in a way.
Then I thought, that's what Rasilon did to Time Lords who sought immortality as revealed in 'The Five Doctors'! The Family where after immortality so The Doctor gave it to them and in so doing put them out of the way!
This two parter now makes more sense to me instead of being very good but weird episodes