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-Canadian-
March 20th, 2007, 03:57 PM
I personaly cant wait. One interaction and arguments we might be getting would be the discussion and arguments about asguard and ancient technologies.

Carter gets her own ship. packed with the latest asguard technology, since she is most likely the leading expert on it.
So carter = expert on asguard tech
mckay = expert on ancient tech
Carter must feel a bond and connection with the asguard after unending. Sam loved thor, and mckay hates everybody.

Carter "we can use a asguard power core for that" Mckay "why the hell would we do that, we'll just use the ZPM, lantien techlogy kicks the asguards ass"

Mitchell82
March 20th, 2007, 05:56 PM
I personaly cant wait. One interaction and arguments we might be getting would be the discussion and arguments about asguard and ancient technologies.

Carter gets her own ship. packed with the latest asguard technology, since she is most likely the leading expert on it.
So carter = expert on asguard tech
mckay = expert on ancient tech
Carter must feel a bond and connection with the asguard after unending. Sam loved thor, and mckay hates everybody.

Carter "we can use a asguard power core for that" Mckay "why the hell would we do that, we'll just use the ZPM, lantien techlogy kicks the asguards ass"
LOL yeah me too. I personally can't wait either.

Kidwizz
March 20th, 2007, 06:22 PM
I personaly cant wait. One interaction and arguments we might be getting would be the discussion and arguments about asguard and ancient technologies.

Carter gets her own ship. packed with the latest asguard technology, since she is most likely the leading expert on it.
So carter = expert on asguard tech
mckay = expert on ancient tech
Carter must feel a bond and connection with the asguard after unending. Sam loved thor, and mckay hates everybody.

Carter "we can use a asguard power core for that" Mckay "why the hell would we do that, we'll just use the ZPM, lantien techlogy kicks the asguards ass"

LOL.... but mckay will win... i cant wait for the amount of 'your sexy' calls.

but i hope they make some Asgard/Lantien hybrid stuff. like a PJ with a hyper drive... Or an Asgard/Lantien hybrid ship like the Daedalus... oh and it would be even better if it has some wraith tech in it aswell... dunno what though lol.

sherryw
March 20th, 2007, 06:52 PM
I have absolutely no problem with Carter coming over to Atlantis. I'm actually looking forward to it. My only concern is that it turns into the Carter/McKay show. Having said that though I will enjoy the occasional banter between the two. Carter is the only one that can put McKay in his place, but I have to say I prefer the banter between McKay and Sheppard. I really think JF and DH play well off eachother.

Copernicus
March 20th, 2007, 07:27 PM
I am looking forward to it as well.

In fact, if there were such a term as "half-shipping", I would heartily support it in this case.

Of course, Katie Brown would have to be removed, but that's one character the powers that be can kill, in my opinion.

VSHARMA
March 21st, 2007, 04:19 AM
Now you come to think about. It will be cool to see Carter on Atlantis. Only for one session though.

Elite Anubis Guard
March 21st, 2007, 05:02 AM
I have every problem with her coming over. TPTB seem to feel the need to turn McKay into a bumbling idiot who has no intelligence whenever Carter is around and quite frankly, I had enough of that in The Pegasus Project, I don't need it for an entire season.

Sparky13
March 21st, 2007, 05:55 AM
I do not like the McKay/Carter chemistry. DH and AT are good friends, so I feel bad saying so, but they really don't come across well on screen for me.

As for how these two characters are scripted, when they discuss science, the conversation devolves into McKay broaching the subject of sex and...that just doesn't seem very much like him after his experiences in Atlantis. The two had a good scene in the first part of "McKay and Mrs. Miller," when they were going over his sister's work, but after that the two felt awkward together. And, as much as I enjoyed "Grace Under Pressure," again, the two actors/characters didn't gel for me.

(And I can't decide whether it's an actor or a character problem. Maybe both. I go with my gut on these things, but my gut isn't all that specific.)

If Carter's role were like that of Sumner, an antagonist with a military presence, it might work, but I don't believe that Tapping is bad-ass enough to pull off that kind of my-way-or-the-highway performance. She is too nice and her character is too nice. When Sam tries to be tough, I just cringe because it always comes across as Amanda Tapping trying to play it like Sam is tough.

Maybe AT needs to be more of a nasty person in real life to have it all work for me. (But that would be terrible!) Or maybe Carter needs to have a pretty big failure or two, events that shake her confidence and the trust that others have placed in her, to give her character more depth. As the character stands now, she is practically a Mary Sue.

As for McKay, I don't think he becomes stupid when he's around her. To me, he becomes obnoxious trying to bulk up his psyche by asserting that he's more intelligent than Carter is, and trying to make up for the fact that he sees her as almost unhumanly beautiful and himself as a less-than-perfect specimen. In short, he distracts himself from the science and therefore gets it wrong.

Because of these problems with the characters in the past, I am not looking forward to Carter's heavy presence on SGA.

In terms of scripting problems encountered with so much scientific brainpower on one show...OMG. The worst part of the episode "Bounty" was

how the beaming and the holographic technologies saved the day in the end (and in the middle, as well).

There isn't much point to placing characters in danger if

devices and gadgets are going to supercede cleverness, drive, determination, strength, compassion, love and other human qualities.

With the prospect of Sam arriving in Atlantis, we will have her, McKay, Zelenka and perhaps others coming up with solutions to everything. When I was growing up, my mother used to say, "Don't worry. The scientists will come up with a cure," whenever I was concerned about something. My thinking about Carter in Atlantis is that there will be some dire situation and then the show will go to a commercial break. After watching 8 minutes of adverts for things I couldn't care less about, BLINK! My mother will be proved correct (again!) and Sam Carter will have something she's invented or wired up that will be much less interesting than anything "human."

Just MHO.

Major Tyler
March 21st, 2007, 06:01 AM
My only concern is that it turns into the Carter/McKay show.Well, right now it's the Sheppard/McKay show, and if I had a choice I guess I'd prefer Carter/McKay. :P

Caesar
March 21st, 2007, 07:44 AM
i think those two will be great together aswell! and since AT is only in 14 eps hopefully they wont overload it and miss out the other characters, still think it will be good thou with her and Mckay in atlantis

Ripple in Space
March 21st, 2007, 11:07 AM
Carter gets her own ship. packed with the latest asguard technology, since she is most likely the leading expert on it.
So carter = expert on asguard tech
mckay = expert on ancient tech

Based on the assumed timeline I don't think that's likely. Since Atlantis only has hours left, there'd be no time to construct a new ship. Even if it's days or weeks there'd be no time.

Also, Carter is an expert on Asgard AND Ancient tech.

Falcon Horus
March 21st, 2007, 12:41 PM
McKay/Zelenka -> brilliant banter, like an old married couple

McKay/Sheppard -> it's funny banter and I can live with it (because I have no other choice)

McKay/Carter -> goes way beyond the annoying, IMHO

SaberBlade
March 21st, 2007, 01:02 PM
Based on the assumed timeline I don't think that's likely. Since Atlantis only has hours left, there'd be no time to construct a new ship. Even if it's days or weeks there'd be no time.

Also, Carter is an expert on Asgard AND Ancient tech.

I wouldn't go as far to saying Carter is an Ancient tech expert. Her experience with Ancient tech has been extremely limited. She is an expert is Merlin's device but that's about it really. Everything else Ancient has gotten short attention, has been forgotten about and the next episode comes and Carter is off doing something else, and not getting that chance to properly study Ancient tech.

So I would have to agree with -Canadian-. All of the Atlantis scientists are very likely to have more skills Ancient with Ancient knowledge than Carter, while Carter is Earth's expert on Asgard tech.

Ruffles
March 21st, 2007, 01:28 PM
I have absolutely no problem with Carter coming over to Atlantis. I'm actually looking forward to it. My only concern is that it turns into the Carter/McKay show. Having said that though I will enjoy the occasional banter between the two. Carter is the only one that can put McKay in his place, but I have to say I prefer the banter between McKay and Sheppard. I really think JF and DH play well off eachother.

I agree.


I have every problem with her coming over. TPTB seem to feel the need to turn McKay into a bumbling idiot who has no intelligence whenever Carter is around and quite frankly, I had enough of that in The Pegasus Project, I don't need it for an entire season.

I am hopeful they will tone down the bumbling idiot thing when she's there regularly the same way they toned down Vala's sexual innuendo (well, mostly) once CB became a regular on SG-1. McKay has had quite a bit of development over the past season. Hopefully he's learned something. If Sam is in command of her own ship, she should have interaction with more people than just Rodney specifically with Sheppard and Weir (or whoever is in charge of Atlantis).

Ltcolshepjumper
March 21st, 2007, 01:44 PM
Also, Carter is an expert on Asgard AND Ancient tech.

TBH, Carter is far from an expert on Ancient technology. she may have some skill with the Ancient tech found in the MW, but that doesn't make her an expert on it. Carter has come into little contact with Ancient tech compared to Mckay. On the other hnd, Carter has had mroe experience with Asgard tech, but IMO, the Asgard tech she has worked with has been limited and really dosn't amount to her being an expert on it. The only Asgard tech she's worked with has been the time dilation device in Unnatual Selection and the Asgard tech on the 304's. Any other situation with Asgard tech didn't involve her studying or solving something by using it. She may have more knowledge about Asgard tech than any other Earth scientist, but she is far from an expert since she has really only dealt with a handful of Asgard tech.

Killdeer
March 21st, 2007, 02:34 PM
Quote in spoiler tags to save space:


I do not like the McKay/Carter chemistry. DH and AT are good friends, so I feel bad saying so, but they really don't come across well on screen for me.

As for how these two characters are scripted, when they discuss science, the conversation devolves into McKay broaching the subject of sex and...that just doesn't seem very much like him after his experiences in Atlantis. The two had a good scene in the first part of "McKay and Mrs. Miller," when they were going over his sister's work, but after that the two felt awkward together. And, as much as I enjoyed "Grace Under Pressure," again, the two actors/characters didn't gel for me.

(And I can't decide whether it's an actor or a character problem. Maybe both. I go with my gut on these things, but my gut isn't all that specific.)

If Carter's role were like that of Sumner, an antagonist with a military presence, it might work, but I don't believe that Tapping is bad-ass enough to pull off that kind of my-way-or-the-highway performance. She is too nice and her character is too nice. When Sam tries to be tough, I just cringe because it always comes across as Amanda Tapping trying to play it like Sam is tough.

Maybe AT needs to be more of a nasty person in real life to have it all work for me. (But that would be terrible!) Or maybe Carter needs to have a pretty big failure or two, events that shake her confidence and the trust that others have placed in her, to give her character more depth. As the character stands now, she is practically a Mary Sue.

As for McKay, I don't think he becomes stupid when he's around her. To me, he becomes obnoxious trying to bulk up his psyche by asserting that he's more intelligent than Carter is, and trying to make up for the fact that he sees her as almost unhumanly beautiful and himself as a less-than-perfect specimen. In short, he distracts himself from the science and therefore gets it wrong.

Because of these problems with the characters in the past, I am not looking forward to Carter's heavy presence on SGA.

In terms of scripting problems encountered with so much scientific brainpower on one show...OMG. The worst part of the episode "Bounty" was

how the beaming and the holographic technologies saved the day in the end (and in the middle, as well).

There isn't much point to placing characters in danger if

devices and gadgets are going to supercede cleverness, drive, determination, strength, compassion, love and other human qualities.

With the prospect of Sam arriving in Atlantis, we will have her, McKay, Zelenka and perhaps others coming up with solutions to everything. When I was growing up, my mother used to say, "Don't worry. The scientists will come up with a cure," whenever I was concerned about something. My thinking about Carter in Atlantis is that there will be some dire situation and then the show will go to a commercial break. After watching 8 minutes of adverts for things I couldn't care less about, BLINK! My mother will be proved correct (again!) and Sam Carter will have something she's invented or wired up that will be much less interesting than anything "human."

Just MHO.


Wow. I almost feel as if I could have written this myself, but I never could have said it so well. But Sparky13 has pretty much summarized all my problems with Carter on Atlantis in this post. How did you get into my head? :D:D

Mitchell82
March 21st, 2007, 02:47 PM
Based on the assumed timeline I don't think that's likely. Since Atlantis only has hours left, there'd be no time to construct a new ship. Even if it's days or weeks there'd be no time.

Also, Carter is an expert on Asgard AND Ancient tech.

Ummm....It could be the oddesey with all that cool asgard tech on board. Also they might find a way to reproduce it Also she is more of an expert on Asgard tech than Ancient.

-Canadian-
March 21st, 2007, 03:19 PM
I see some of you guys are worried about the sexual things coming from mckay. That would get annoying pretty quik. But I'm hoping since mckay has a girlfriend now he'll be able to shake of the urges about Sam, I know i couldnt lol. I dont know how far ahead the writers plan things but that would make sense for the reason to keep mckay getting attached to somebody.

We can only hope. Because other then that there interactions could be golden!

Sparky13
March 21st, 2007, 06:23 PM
Quote in spoiler tags to save space:




Wow. I almost feel as if I could have written this myself, but I never could have said it so well. But Sparky13 has pretty much summarized all my problems with Carter on Atlantis in this post. How did you get into my head? :D:D

The usual way: Separated at birth!

Mitchell82
March 21st, 2007, 06:49 PM
I see some of you guys are worried about the sexual things coming from mckay. That would get annoying pretty quik. But I'm hoping since mckay has a girlfriend now he'll be able to shake of the urges about Sam, I know i couldnt lol. I dont know how far ahead the writers plan things but that would make sense for the reason to keep mckay getting attached to somebody.

We can only hope. Because other then that there interactions could be golden!

I agree yes it would, though I doubt they would do that too much.

monkey_man132
March 21st, 2007, 08:12 PM
I love any episode that pits the geniuses of the Stargate universe head-to-head.I can't wait for Carter on SGA.:D

Mitchell82
March 21st, 2007, 09:32 PM
I love any episode that pits the geniuses of the Stargate universe head-to-head.I can't wait for Carter on SGA.:D

Yeah it will be great to see all of our geniuses butt heads.

carterrocks
March 22nd, 2007, 05:06 AM
I wouldn't go as far to saying Carter is an Ancient tech expert. Her experience with Ancient tech has been extremely limited. She is an expert is Merlin's device but that's about it really. Everything else Ancient has gotten short attention, has been forgotten about and the next episode comes and Carter is off doing something else, and not getting that chance to properly study Ancient tech.

So I would have to agree with -Canadian-. All of the Atlantis scientists are very likely to have more skills Ancient with Ancient knowledge than Carter, while Carter is Earth's expert on Asgard tech.

I would disagree every piece of acient tec that sam has cum across she has mastered also i think the asgard tec is so so so so much better than lantean :)

jenks
March 22nd, 2007, 07:20 AM
Every peice? Possibly, but she hasn't come across that much and I'd say it is pretty much canon that Ancient technology is more advanced that Asgard.

the dancer of spaz
March 22nd, 2007, 10:25 AM
Every peice? Possibly, but she hasn't come across that much and I'd say it is pretty much canon that Ancient technology is more advanced that Asgard.

Yeah. I think there's a lot Carter could learn from McKay, considering he's been fully immersed in Ancient technology for three years now.

SaberBlade
March 22nd, 2007, 04:13 PM
I would disagree every piece of acient tec that sam has cum across she has mastered also i think the asgard tec is so so so so much better than lantean :)

I'd have to disagree with you.

It took two Carters to figure out the "ZPM" O'Neill built to power an 8th chevron lock. It took Baal and Selmak to figure out the Dakara device. The Cargo Ship O'Neill modified had been in SGC possession for a a while and she admitted she said that no one may ever be able to figure it out and even the device created by Merlin needed Daniel to act as a translator.

I'm not sure how the gap is between season 7's end and season 8's start, but that gave them a few months to work on the Cargo ship and yet still Carter couldn't figure it out.

I would be willing to say that Carter is the Asgard and Goa'uld tech specialist, but McKay is most definitely the Ancient expert.

I don't think it's really fair to call Carter the ancient tech when she's had limited experience compared to Rodney, because then it just makes it seem like he'd always be in her shadow.

ReganX
March 22nd, 2007, 04:38 PM
I would disagree every piece of acient tec that sam has cum across she has mastered also i think the asgard tec is so so so so much better than lantean :)

You have to remember that the Ancient technology has not developed much in ten thousand years, during which time the Asgard technology continued to evolve. I'd say that they both have their strengths.

Sam's experience with Ancient technology has, so far, been pretty limited but I'm sure she'll pick it up quickly.

Killdeer
March 22nd, 2007, 05:46 PM
I would be willing to say that Carter is the Asgard and Goa'uld tech specialist, but McKay is most definitely the Ancient expert.

I don't think it's really fair to call Carter the ancient tech when she's had limited experience compared to Rodney, because then it just makes it seem like he'd always be in her shadow.

So very true. Rodney has been living in the city of the Ancients for three years! I hope that doesn't get downplayed. I know people love Carter, but I think having her suddenly become the supergenius for Atlantis like she was for SG1 would be bad for both their characters. If they can balance it out realistically I think it will be good. They have to be willing to let Carter make some mistakes though. Rodney can't always be the one who screws up.

the fifth man
March 22nd, 2007, 06:56 PM
So very true. Rodney has been living in the city of the Ancients for three years! I hope that doesn't get downplayed. I know people love Carter, but I think having her suddenly become the supergenius for Atlantis like she was for SG1 would be bad for both their characters. If they can balance it out realistically I think it will be good. They have to be willing to let Carter make some mistakes though. Rodney can't always be the one who screws up.

I totally agree. Both Carter and McKay are brilliant scientists, and experts on many things. If TPTB are as smart as I think they are, they'll let both of them come up with the "miracle" solutions to situations. Not just one of them all the time.

Killdeer
March 22nd, 2007, 07:13 PM
I totally agree. Both Carter and McKay are brilliant scientists, and experts on many things. If TPTB are as smart as I think they are, they'll let both of them come up with the "miracle" solutions to situations. Not just one of them all the time.

:D You have more faith than TPTB than I. I have hope, actually a lot more than I did a couple of months ago. But faith...well, that's been a little harder to find. ;)

Integrabyte
March 23rd, 2007, 01:16 AM
May the best scientist win :P. I hope Carter calms Rodney down because I do not think I will watch Season 4 if Rodney continues to behave the way he usually does. No matter how many times I tried to understand that guy I end up switching off my TV. Hope Carter, the water, will put out McKay, the fire :P.

Mitchell82
March 23rd, 2007, 05:42 AM
I'd have to disagree with you.

It took two Carters to figure out the "ZPM" O'Neill built to power an 8th chevron lock. It took Baal and Selmak to figure out the Dakara device. The Cargo Ship O'Neill modified had been in SGC possession for a a while and she admitted she said that no one may ever be able to figure it out and even the device created by Merlin needed Daniel to act as a translator.

I'm not sure how the gap is between season 7's end and season 8's start, but that gave them a few months to work on the Cargo ship and yet still Carter couldn't figure it out.

I would be willing to say that Carter is the Asgard and Goa'uld tech specialist, but McKay is most definitely the Ancient expert.

I don't think it's really fair to call Carter the ancient tech when she's had limited experience compared to Rodney, because then it just makes it seem like he'd always be in her shadow.
I agree. Carter knows some about Ancient tech but not near to what Mckay knows. She can definatly learn alot from him.

Willow'sCat
March 23rd, 2007, 05:49 AM
I do not like the McKay/Carter chemistry. DH and AT are good friends, so I feel bad saying so, but they really don't come across well on screen for me.

As for how these two characters are scripted, when they discuss science, the conversation devolves into McKay broaching the subject of sex and...that just doesn't seem very much like him after his experiences in Atlantis. The two had a good scene in the first part of "McKay and Mrs. Miller," when they were going over his sister's work, but after that the two felt awkward together. And, as much as I enjoyed "Grace Under Pressure," again, the two actors/characters didn't gel for me.

(And I can't decide whether it's an actor or a character problem. Maybe both. I go with my gut on these things, but my gut isn't all that specific.)

If Carter's role were like that of Sumner, an antagonist with a military presence, it might work, but I don't believe that Tapping is bad-ass enough to pull off that kind of my-way-or-the-highway performance. She is too nice and her character is too nice. When Sam tries to be tough, I just cringe because it always comes across as Amanda Tapping trying to play it like Sam is tough.

Maybe AT needs to be more of a nasty person in real life to have it all work for me. (But that would be terrible!) Or maybe Carter needs to have a pretty big failure or two, events that shake her confidence and the trust that others have placed in her, to give her character more depth. As the character stands now, she is practically a Mary Sue.

As for McKay, I don't think he becomes stupid when he's around her. To me, he becomes obnoxious trying to bulk up his psyche by asserting that he's more intelligent than Carter is, and trying to make up for the fact that he sees her as almost unhumanly beautiful and himself as a less-than-perfect specimen. In short, he distracts himself from the science and therefore gets it wrong.

Because of these problems with the characters in the past, I am not looking forward to Carter's heavy presence on SGA.

In terms of scripting problems encountered with so much scientific brainpower on one show...OMG. The worst part of the episode "Bounty" was

how the beaming and the holographic technologies saved the day in the end (and in the middle, as well).

There isn't much point to placing characters in danger if

devices and gadgets are going to supercede cleverness, drive, determination, strength, compassion, love and other human qualities.

With the prospect of Sam arriving in Atlantis, we will have her, McKay, Zelenka and perhaps others coming up with solutions to everything. When I was growing up, my mother used to say, "Don't worry. The scientists will come up with a cure," whenever I was concerned about something. My thinking about Carter in Atlantis is that there will be some dire situation and then the show will go to a commercial break. After watching 8 minutes of adverts for things I couldn't care less about, BLINK! My mother will be proved correct (again!) and Sam Carter will have something she's invented or wired up that will be much less interesting than anything "human."

Just MHO.I wouldn't normally quote in full another person's post but you summed up my feeling about this so much better then I ever could. *especially the highlighted parts*

Plus if I was to post in here what I really think :cool: well, no one wants that. :p :cool:

Klenotka
March 23rd, 2007, 05:54 AM
May the best scientist win :P. I hope Carter calms Rodney down because I do not think I will watch Season 4 if Rodney continues to behave the way he usually does. No matter how many times I tried to understand that guy I end up switching off my TV. Hope Carter, the water, will put out McKay, the fire :P.

Yeah, may the best scientist win. I hope Rodney stays the way he is and Carter changes:p Or they could both change. No matter how many times I tried to understand Carter I end up switching off my...DVD.:p
But seriously, I hope they make Carter little more....believeable. I hope she will have problems to fit. I don´t think this bad, really. Just...in Atlantis, they work together for three years now, and they, probably,
lost temporarily their favorite leader. It could make things difficult for Carter, she could make some bad decisions, fight for trust...make her real soldier, human, woman....they could truly learn with Rodney from each other. ;) Just...don´t make Carter TOO perfect and fit her immediately. Make the arrival more natural, I don´t want anything else.

Killdeer
March 23rd, 2007, 09:04 AM
But seriously, I hope they make Carter little more....believeable. I don´t want anything else. I hope she will have problems to fit. I don´t think this bad, really. Just...in Atlantis, they work together for three years now, and they, probably,
lost temporarily their favorite leader. It could make things difficult for Carter, she could make some bad decisions, fight for trust...make her real soldier, human, woman....they could truly learn with Rodney from each other. ;) Just...don´t make Carter TOO perfect and fit her immediately. Make the arrival more natural.

YES!! Exactly! I said almost the same thing somewhere else. It's completely unrealistic to think that she would immediately fit in and everyone would love her. I really hope they don't go that route. Like you said, she should have some struggles, some problems with acceptance, make some mistakes. It would make her more human, and for me, a lot easier to relate to as a character. I don't think it's anti-Carter to say that we hope she doesn't fit in right away. It's realistic, and it would provide some growth for the character. Sam as she is has nowhere to go. Really, and this is just my personal opinion you understand, they really took Sam as far as they could with her current situation by the end of Season 8. Seasons 9 & 10 didn't develop the character at all that I saw, and really, what was there for her to do besides be the science genius for the team? Coming back to SG1 from being head of R&D at Area 51 seemed like a backwards career move for her. She should have been heading up science, building spaceships, advising the president, etc, etc. Having her come back for 9 & 10 may have kept the team together, but I don't think it really provided a lot of growth opportunities. It really isn't that interesting to see Sam learn new science stuff. But putting her in a new situation where she's totally out of her depth and has to struggle to regain acceptance and trust, and yes, where she screws up a few times....that could add some dimension and depth to her character.

So I'm hopeful for Season 4. The situation has so much potential, and could be written in a way that would better develop everyone's characters. But I'm also pessimistic based on past history. I'm afraid the writers might shy away from having Carter struggle to fit in and be accepted by the Atlantis team for fear of making the characters look bad. We'll see what happens.

Mitchell82
March 23rd, 2007, 09:36 AM
YES!! Exactly! I said almost the same thing somewhere else. It's completely unrealistic to think that she would immediately fit in and everyone would love her. I really hope they don't go that route. Like you said, she should have some struggles, some problems with acceptance, make some mistakes. It would make her more human, and for me, a lot easier to relate to as a character. I don't think it's anti-Carter to say that we hope she doesn't fit in right away. It's realistic, and it would provide some growth for the character. Sam as she is has nowhere to go. Really, and this is just my personal opinion you understand, they really took Sam as far as they could with her current situation by the end of Season 8. Seasons 9 & 10 didn't develop the character at all that I saw, and really, what was there for her to do besides be the science genius for the team? Coming back to SG1 from being head of R&D at Area 51 seemed like a backwards career move for her. She should have been heading up science, building spaceships, advising the president, etc, etc. Having her come back for 9 & 10 may have kept the team together, but I don't think it really provided a lot of growth opportunities. It really isn't that interesting to see Sam learn new science stuff. But putting her in a new situation where she's totally out of her depth and has to struggle to regain acceptance and trust, and yes, where she screws up a few times....that could add some dimension and depth to her character.

So I'm hopeful for Season 4. The situation has so much potential, and could be written in a way that would better develop everyone's characters. But I'm also pessimistic based on past history. I'm afraid the writers might shy away from having Carter struggle to fit in and be accepted by the Atlantis team for fear of making the characters look bad. We'll see what happens.

I doubt that I think they will make sure there are struggles and not have her fit in right away. I'm very optimistic about season 4 and doubt I'll be let down.

ReganX
March 23rd, 2007, 04:16 PM
YES!! Exactly! I said almost the same thing somewhere else. It's completely unrealistic to think that she would immediately fit in and everyone would love her. I really hope they don't go that route. Like you said, she should have some struggles, some problems with acceptance, make some mistakes. It would make her more human, and for me, a lot easier to relate to as a character. I don't think it's anti-Carter to say that we hope she doesn't fit in right away. It's realistic, and it would provide some growth for the character.

I don't think it's anti-Carter. It would be realistic for Sam not to fit in right away and she will be something of a fish out of water, so obviously she's not going to immediately adapt without any problems.

I don't think that Sam will be greeted with hostility or that she will be hated by the members of the Atlantis expedition but even if they respect her as an officer and as a scientist and like her as a person, she will - if she is leader, at any rate - be replacing, temporarily or otherwise, somebody with whom the people on Atlantis have been working and living with for three years. Atlantis is a close-knit community and Weir is an important, respected and well-liked member of that community. Sam will be a newcomer. A period of adjustment is natural.


Sam as she is has nowhere to go. Really, and this is just my personal opinion you understand, they really took Sam as far as they could with her current situation by the end of Season 8. Seasons 9 & 10 didn't develop the character at all that I saw, and really, what was there for her to do besides be the science genius for the team? Coming back to SG1 from being head of R&D at Area 51 seemed like a backwards career move for her. She should have been heading up science, building spaceships, advising the president, etc, etc. Having her come back for 9 & 10 may have kept the team together, but I don't think it really provided a lot of growth opportunities. It really isn't that interesting to see Sam learn new science stuff. But putting her in a new situation where she's totally out of her depth and has to struggle to regain acceptance and trust, and yes, where she screws up a few times....that could add some dimension and depth to her character.

I think that removing her from command robbed Sam of what could have been a fantastic character arc; they hadn’t shown much of her in command in Season Eight - I think that TPTB were too nervous to shift the focus away from Jack - so Season Nine was a real opportunity for a new beginning for Sam and for the show but unfortunately TPTB chose a route that ended up downplaying her command experience and that side of her character.

As you say, coming back from Area 51 was a step backwards for her career-wise; it would have been bad enough had she been returning to command but worse still when she was leaving a command position to be second in command or, at best, co-commander of a team she had previously led. To be honest, Sam leaving for Area 51 in the first place made little sense, especially given the timing of her departure. She had previously been shown to have loved both the scientific and the military aspects of her job so it seemed strange that she would trade in SG-1 for a desk job and stranger still that she would leave just before the new team leader, somebody with no offworld experience, arrived instead of sticking around a while, both to help him learn the ropes and to quietly evaluate him as a potential leader.

Not addressing the issue meant that there was no opportunity for character growth for Sam either.

Taking her out of her comfort zone and putting her in a position where she is working in an unfamiliar situation with people she does not know well gives her a chance to learn and grow but it also gives the rest of the characters the same opportunity as they will have to adjust to Sam and the changes she brings.


So I'm hopeful for Season 4. The situation has so much potential, and could be written in a way that would better develop everyone's characters. But I'm also pessimistic based on past history. I'm afraid the writers might shy away from having Carter struggle to fit in and be accepted by the Atlantis team for fear of making the characters look bad. We'll see what happens.

I think they made a huge mistake not having any real struggles or conflict over Mitchell’s insertion into the team in Season Nine and Vala too was accepted into the fold remarkably quickly. Here’s hoping that TPTB have learned from their mistakes. They did a better job with Jonas.

I don’t want to see Sam being treated like a pariah or the other characters organizing a mutiny against her but it would be completely unrealistic for her to arrive on Atlantis and be the best of friends with everyone there five minutes later. The Atlantis characters don't need to act like playground bullies but it would be unrealistic for them to immediately adapt without any problems.

the dancer of spaz
March 23rd, 2007, 04:19 PM
Exactly. Conflict adds drama and character development and depth to the series as a whole, and I'm looking forward to seeing her struggle in some areas with this new role, while seeing the other characters struggle to accept her 100%

Anubis-
March 23rd, 2007, 04:30 PM
I have every problem with her coming over. TPTB seem to feel the need to turn McKay into a bumbling idiot who has no intelligence whenever Carter is around and quite frankly, I had enough of that in The Pegasus Project, I don't need it for an entire season.

I think same as you.

But it came to my mind, that Carter role in SGA maybe is, to put and integrate Asgard technology to Atlantis?

Alterran1.
March 23rd, 2007, 04:32 PM
I believe you are forgetting that the Ancient technology Carter has had experience with is far newer than that of Mckay.

Merlins device was constructed long after they left Atlantis
She has pretty much mastered this piece of technology

The knowledge Jack used to re-fit the cargo ship is likely after atlantis as well.

The Time Jumper they found was constructed after Janus left Atlantis

the dancer of spaz
March 23rd, 2007, 04:34 PM
I believe you are forgetting that the Ancient technology Carter has had experience with is far newer than that of Mckay.

Merlins device was constructed long after they left Atlantis
She has pretty much mastered this piece of technology

The knowledge Jack used to re-fit the cargo ship is likely after atlantis as well.

The Time Jumper they found was constructed after Janus left Atlantis

That's true. I guess the difference is, Merlin's weapon will most likely never make its way onto Atlantis, whereas the technology that McKay works with - including all Jumper tech - is more likely to be utilized. And I think he has more experience in that department.

I'd still like to see a scene between them where Sam admits that she tried the ATA gene therapy and it failed (I don't think she needs to be able to fly a PJ), and McKay mocks her for it. :P

Killdeer
March 23rd, 2007, 05:21 PM
To be honest, Sam leaving for Area 51 in the first place made little sense, especially given the timing of her departure. She had previously been shown to have loved both the scientific and the military aspects of her job so it seemed strange that she would trade in SG-1 for a desk job and stranger still that she would leave just before the new team leader, somebody with no offworld experience, arrived instead of sticking around a while, both to help him learn the ropes and to quietly evaluate him as a potential leader.

Actually, I thought that part kind of did make sense, but that's just me. :) The way I saw it was that they were at the end of a war. The main goal all these eight years had been defeating the Goa'uld, and now they had. All that was left was the cleanup work, and the main players in that victory (SG-1) all were moving on to the next phase of their lives. Jack was promoted, Teal'c was helping the Jaffa deal with the freedom they'd been fighting for, Daniel was going to Atlantis-his long time dream. And in that line, Carter is continuing on to the next logical step in her career. Plus, with the way Season 8 ended, seeming to imply some sort of understanding being reached between Jack and Sam (I'm not a shipper, but that's how I understood it), it didn't seem a reach that Carter would look for a more settled situation. Maybe it was a little fast, but we never really knew how long the time period was between the end of Season 8 and the beginning of Season 9.

I guess one thing is, though, that might be affecting my perspective is that I don't remember Sam being that into the military side of her job. Her thinking and discipline is military (remembering when she told the alternate Carter that she couldn't imagine anything else), but first and foremost, Sam has always been a scientist in my mind. Science is her first love, completely and totally, just as archeology is Daniel's. I know everyone's interpretation is different, and I don't want to start up the military vs scientist debate on this thread ;) , but I guess from the beginning, although Sam could fight and shoot with the best of them, I didn't see that as being who she was. She was/is a scientist. A scientist that is also a warrior when she needs to be, but still a scientist first. But that's just my interpretation. :D That's why I didn't see it as strange, once SG-1 broke up and her friends headed out to new lives, that she would jump at the opportunity to play with all the cool gadgets in world-class labs and build cool spaceships to her heart's content. She certainly didn't seem that excited at the prospect when Cam tried to talk her into coming back - she seemed more absorbed in her current project.


Taking her out of her comfort zone and putting her in a position where she is working in an unfamiliar situation with people she does not know well gives her a chance to learn and grow but it also gives the rest of the characters the same opportunity as they will have to adjust to Sam and the changes she brings.

I think they made a huge mistake not having any real struggles or conflict over Mitchell’s insertion into the team in Season Nine and Vala too was accepted into the fold remarkably quickly. Here’s hoping that TPTB have learned from their mistakes. They did a better job with Jonas.

I don’t want to see Sam being treated like a pariah or the other characters organizing a mutiny against her but it would be completely unrealistic for her to arrive on Atlantis and be the best of friends with everyone there five minutes later. The Atlantis characters don't need to act like playground bullies but it would be unrealistic for them to immediately adapt without any problems.

I completely agree. Either extreme would be out of character. I'm hoping with you that TPTB have learned....I guess we'll see!


Exactly. Conflict adds drama and character development and depth to the series as a whole, and I'm looking forward to seeing her struggle in some areas with this new role, while seeing the other characters struggle to accept her 100%

Yes. Here's hoping we get to see that!

BTW, I'm still laughing at your sig - LOL! :D

Killdeer
March 23rd, 2007, 05:28 PM
That's true. I guess the difference is, Merlin's weapon will most likely never make its way onto Atlantis, whereas the technology that McKay works with - including all Jumper tech - is more likely to be utilized. And I think he has more experience in that department.

I agree.


I'd still like to see a scene between them where Sam admits that she tried the ATA gene therapy and it failed (I don't think she needs to be able to fly a PJ), and McKay mocks her for it. :P

LOL! That would be hilarious. :D

Anubis-
March 24th, 2007, 12:23 AM
I believe you are forgetting that the Ancient technology Carter has had experience with is far newer than that of Mckay.

I did not understund, what that means?


Merlins device was constructed long after they left Atlantis
She has pretty much mastered this piece of technology

If there is one thing and one man making some device, that's not mean that all ancient device are deveploving.


The Time Jumper they found was constructed after Janus left Atlantis

I did not think so, because in Atlantis was also time jumper.

Integrabyte
March 24th, 2007, 01:36 PM
LOL! That would be hilarious.

Hilarious would be for Carter to be able to use Ancient tech. McKay will not sleep because Carter can master Goa'uld and Ancient technology. Beat that McKay :P. It is true,SAM will never be scared of lemons so I guess McKay wins on that one.

Mitchell82
March 24th, 2007, 05:55 PM
Hilarious would be for Carter to be able to use Ancient tech. McKay will not sleep because Carter can master Goa'uld and Ancient technology. Beat that McKay :P. It is true,SAM will never be scared of lemons so I guess McKay wins on that one.

That would be hilarious.

wise one
March 25th, 2007, 02:38 AM
i would say they are equally the same in smarts that is

Integrabyte
March 25th, 2007, 03:17 AM
i would say they are equally the same in smarts that is


Any proof on that one? :D

KindlyKeller
March 25th, 2007, 04:19 AM
I guess I like Sam okay a lot of the time, but it's extremely obnoxious the infrequency with which she's seen in a negative late or makes the slightest mistake. I always laughed when people would complain about Cam being the hero and always taking care of everything when that's basically Sam's role. The difference b/w her and McKay in that regard is that Rodney actually has negative personality traits and has made some big mistakes, whereas Sam is pretty much beloved by everyone at all times and is impervious to error.

I really hope the trend of McKay being a total idiot in her presence does not continue.

BeckettRulez
March 25th, 2007, 05:15 AM
I just hope that Carter's presence won't change Dr. Meredith Rodney McKay as we all know and love him. I like McKay being McKay: sarcastic, mean, smart ass, egoistical...
But always when Carter is around him, his normal McKay being changes and it gets boring because I really enjoy his banter with Zelenka for example, or Sheppard, but I fear that such scences won't be there anymore with Carter around.

Elite Anubis Guard
March 25th, 2007, 05:39 AM
I really hope the trend of McKay being a total idiot in her presence does not continue.

And for that, you get a green.

ReganX
March 25th, 2007, 06:24 AM
I just hope that Carter's presence won't change Dr. Meredith Rodney McKay as we all know and love him. I like McKay being McKay: sarcastic, mean, smart ass, egoistical...
But always when Carter is around him, his normal McKay being changes and it gets boring because I really enjoy his banter with Zelenka for example, or Sheppard, but I fear that such scences won't be there anymore with Carter around.

Remember that McKay will be on his own home turf and Sam will be the fish out of water. I don't think that they've ever been in that position before. I anticipate some awkwardness, and maybe a little bit of competitiveness from McKay but I doubt he'll get a complete ppersonality change.

A lot depends on what Sam's role on Atlantis is to be; if she's going to be working in the science department, then yes there will be a lot of interaction between her and McKay but if she is to command a ship or the Atlantis expedition, she won't be anywhere near as heavily involved in the science department.

Integrabyte
March 25th, 2007, 10:43 AM
Remember that McKay will be on his own home turf and Sam will be the fish out of water. I don't think that they've ever been in that position before. I anticipate some awkwardness, and maybe a little bit of competitiveness from McKay but I doubt he'll get a complete ppersonality change.

This whole home turf will not apply. When Rodney was criticising the cafeteria in Area 51 SAM was playing with ancient/goa'uld/asgard technology and was fixing DHDs. When McKay was building Naquada bombs for the Russians, Sam was working the Prometheus. In Pegasus Project McKay was @ home and he was a complete idiot. Having said that, SAM has plenty of expertise to match Meredith so I do not think the whole McKay -Zelenka will work with SAM. McKay will take some notes from SAM in S4.


I really hope the trend of McKay being a total idiot in her presence does not continue.

You and me both ....

Mitchell82
March 25th, 2007, 10:47 AM
I just hope that Carter's presence won't change Dr. Meredith Rodney McKay as we all know and love him. I like McKay being McKay: sarcastic, mean, smart ass, egoistical...
But always when Carter is around him, his normal McKay being changes and it gets boring because I really enjoy his banter with Zelenka for example, or Sheppard, but I fear that such scences won't be there anymore with Carter around.

I doubt it wil change that much and i'm sure that Mckays old bumbling idiot routine will not make an apearance.

Integrabyte
March 25th, 2007, 10:50 AM
When CARTER saves Atlantis in S4 McKay will ask Teyla for the closest lemon market and will dive in tons and tons of lemons :D. Cannot wait to see the look on his face when SAM saves their a$$es :D

Mitchell82
March 25th, 2007, 10:53 AM
When CARTER saves Atlantis in S4 McKay will ask Teyla for the closest lemon market and will dive in tons and tons of lemons :D. Cannot wait to see the look on his face when SAM saves their a$$es :D

LOL me too. I so loved the scen in Mckay and Mrs. Miller when Carter found out his first name. Mabey she can find out some embarrising secret and use it as leverage.

jckfan55
March 25th, 2007, 11:05 AM
I love Carter, but I do like that Rodney challenges her. She is brilliant but she needs people who are also smart in her field to challenge her thinking sometimes. Rodney needs the same thing, so in that sense their interactions are good for both their characters.
I think the writers sometimes fall back on Sam Rodney interactions though. I would hope we see Carter interacting with other characters too.

ReganX
March 25th, 2007, 12:04 PM
I love Carter, but I do like that Rodney challenges her. She is brilliant but she needs people who are also smart in her field to challenge her thinking sometimes. Rodney needs the same thing, so in that sense their interactions are good for both their characters.
I think the writers sometimes fall back on Sam Rodney interactions though. I would hope we see Carter interacting with other characters too.

Sam and McKay have never, to the best of my knowledge, been in more than two consecutive episodes together. Excluding AUs, they interacted in four episodes of SG-1 and one Atlantis episode (two if you count "Grace Under Pressure") over the past five years.

Now that they're going to have fourteen episodes in one season, I hope that the writers realize that they can't have them all but joined at the hip.

That's one reason why I'd like to see Sam leading the base if Weir is unavailable - she will have to interact with all the main characters.

Integrabyte
March 25th, 2007, 01:00 PM
We should create a poll :P. I wanna see how many love McKay and how many Carter :P.

ReganX
March 25th, 2007, 01:05 PM
We should create a poll :P. I wanna see how many love McKay and how many Carter :P.

I think you'll find that a lot of people love both.

the dancer of spaz
March 25th, 2007, 06:15 PM
I think you'll find that a lot of people love both.

Yep. :)

And I think the only area where Sam will continually trump McKay is when it comes to willingly working with other people. That's not to say that McKay's interactions with Zelenka or Sheppard or anyone will change completely, but Sam has proven that she's more willing to work with other people if it'll help solve a problem.

In M&MM...
Sam was pretty much the one who convinced McKay to bring his sister into the fold on their project with her theorem, when he seemed (or acted, at least) perfectly content with not including her.

Because of their personalities and experience, Sam likes to collaborate with other team members, and McKay likes to work alone. As always, in small doses, their interactions will be interesting to see imo.

Mitchell82
March 25th, 2007, 06:33 PM
Yep. :)

And I think the only area where Sam will continually trump McKay is when it comes to willingly working with other people. That's not to say that McKay's interactions with Zelenka or Sheppard or anyone will change completely, but Sam has proven that she's more willing to work with other people if it'll help solve a problem.

In M&MM...
Sam was pretty much the one who convinced McKay to bring his sister into the fold on their project with her theorem, when he seemed (or acted, at least) perfectly content with not including her.

Because of their personalities and experience, Sam likes to collaborate with other team members, and McKay likes to work alone. As always, in small doses, their interactions will be interesting to see imo.
As long as Mckay doesnt turn into bumbling idiot around her i'll be just fine.

meredithchandler73
March 25th, 2007, 08:46 PM
So many great thoughts in this thread! I'm sorry that I'm not going to credit everyone by quoting - I lost track of how many people I agreed with!

I'm very excited to see Sam going to Atlantis. I think TPTB are smart enough to take advantage of Sam (and Amanda) by having her interact with the rest of the cast and not only showing her with McKay. (I personally love how Amanda and David interact in all the episodes they've done together.)

Second half of season 3 spoiler (do I even need this?):
McKay has a girlfriend - Katie Brown. At this point, I'm not going to worry that there will be a Sam/Rodney ship.

It's funny, I never really thought about Sam not fitting in at Altantis. I guess I love the character so much and she's just so much more pleasant than Rodney in general - why wouldn't she fit in nicely? But the fact is, this is Rodney's "home turf" and she'll be the new kid in town. It would be far more interesting to see her finding her place and her way on Atlantis.

There was talk about how Sam is too perfect and always right while McKay screws up a lot. When you compare the two characters, McKay does screw up a lot more. Part of it is personality. It was Rodney's arrogance that destroyed most of a galaxy (was that Trinity)? Actually, I had just rewatched Gemini recently and Sam definitely feels like she screwed up with Replicarter. She didn't destroy her when she had the chance. And, she felt that Replicarter learned betrayal from Fifth, who learned it from Sam. Ouch. I don't think Sam's perfect. And I'm absolutely SURE that TPTB won't have Sam vs. Rodney with Sam being right all the time.

Sam works well with others while Rodney...well, he can be rather abrasive at times. Seriously - I love his character, but the way he treats Zelenka sometimes is not so great. ("You're petty, arrogrant and bad with people." - HallucinationSam to Rodney in Grace Under Pressure) I'm really looking forward to seeing Sam working with Zelenka. :)

Something else - I think Sam really enjoys being a science geek. How many times have we seen Sam excited about some new technology they've come across and wanting to figure out how it works? Does Rodney get excited about the discoveries being made? I think so, but certainly not in the same way that Sam does.

Hey - they named the bridge the McKay-Carter Intergalactic Bridge. Wonder if we'll get anymore collaborations like that one. That name for it always makes me smile. Also when McKay first explains the idea - to Ronan in Irresponsible, I think - and admits it was Carter's idea. :)

I love both of these characters. I think we're in for some fun next season!

Integrabyte
March 26th, 2007, 01:44 AM
There was talk about how Sam is too perfect and always right while McKay screws up a lot. When you compare the two characters, McKay does screw up a lot more. Part of it is personality. It was Rodney's arrogance that destroyed most of a galaxy (was that Trinity)? Actually, I had just rewatched Gemini recently and Sam definitely feels like she screwed up with Replicarter. She didn't destroy her when she had the chance. And, she felt that Replicarter learned betrayal from Fifth, who learned it from Sam. Ouch. I don't think Sam's perfect. And I'm absolutely SURE that TPTB won't have Sam vs. Rodney with Sam being right all the time.


You seem to be ignoring something. SAM wanted to take Fifth with her but Jack took matters in his own hands. At the end of the day, Fifth behaved that way because SAM was not allowed to keep her promise and not because SAM decieved him.



Something else - I think Sam really enjoys being a science geek. How many times have we seen Sam excited about some new technology they've come across and wanting to figure out how it works? Does Rodney get excited about the discoveries being made? I think so, but certainly not in the same way that Sam does.

McKay's ego kinda takes over when it comes to new technology. Coming back to the example you quoted with project arcturus, one can see how McKay becomes obsessed with that thing. So in a way, McKay goes super crazy when he stumbles over something intriguing,whereas,SAM keeps her cool and makes sure she does not destroy 6/5 of a galaxy...

jenks
March 26th, 2007, 02:07 AM
McKay's ego kinda takes over when it comes to new technology. Coming back to the example you quoted with project arcturus, one can see how McKay becomes obsessed with that thing. So in a way, McKay goes super crazy when he stumbles over something intriguing,whereas,SAM keeps her cool and makes sure she does not destroy 6/5 of a galaxy...

But where's the fun in that...

ReganX
March 26th, 2007, 04:58 AM
You seem to be ignoring something. SAM wanted to take Fifth with her but Jack took matters in his own hands. At the end of the day, Fifth behaved that way because SAM was not allowed to keep her promise and not because SAM decieved him.

That would make a great fanfic - what would have happened if Sam (a) ignored Jack's gesture to set the timer for three minutes, or (b) genuinely didn't see it, and Fifth escaped with them?


McKay's ego kinda takes over when it comes to new technology. Coming back to the example you quoted with project arcturus, one can see how McKay becomes obsessed with that thing. So in a way, McKay goes super crazy when he stumbles over something intriguing,whereas,SAM keeps her cool and makes sure she does not destroy 6/5 of a galaxy...

I think that on some level, McKay feels that he needs to constantly prove himself and that can occasionally lead to errors in judgement that Sam, who I think is more secure in her role, might not make. Sam is also better at working with others and more comfortable with accepting their input.

suse
March 26th, 2007, 07:54 AM
Something else - I think Sam really enjoys being a science geek. How many times have we seen Sam excited about some new technology they've come across and wanting to figure out how it works? Does Rodney get excited about the discoveries being made? I think so, but certainly not in the same way that Sam does.
!

Agreed. I think McKay is smart. Very smart. And good at what he does. So he excels. But his motivations seem different than Sams. She wants to find out how it works/creat something because it's a cool piece of tech. He wants to do the same but because it shows how much smarter he is than everyone :rolleyes: else. Petty and arrogant is right. ;)
This does not mean I don't like Rodney. Though to me a bit of arrogance goes a looooonnnnnng way. He's been taken OTT a bit too often IMO

Rodney said it himself. Sam's "whackjob" :D ideas come from her love of physics and having a true talent for it. His piano analogy was perfect.

I think Rodney has developed the ability to really think outside the box. But his need to always prove himself the best at everything... he does not play well with others. It's a very good thing the Atlantis crew has decided it's a character quick and just work around it. I'd chew him up one side and down the other weekly. If not daily. And NOT in a shippy way! :eek:

suse

Steve_the_Wraith
March 26th, 2007, 07:57 AM
So in a way, McKay goes super crazy when he stumbles over something intriguing,whereas,SAM keeps her cool and makes sure she does not destroy 6/5 of a galaxy...

It was 5/6 of a solar system and as McKay said, it was uninhabited :D

I think he's learned his lesson there, its not every new piece of technology that McKay obsesses over, Arcturus would have provided the team and earth with unlimted, clean free energy if it had worked

Furthermore a colleague of McKay's had aleady died trying to figure out the machine - he wasn't going to let that man die for nothing

He wasn't wrong in trying to make it work he was wrong in pushing too much (making the same kind of gut decisions that Carter always makes, the difference being for Carter they almost always pay off with little consequences, for McKay it blew up in his face)

suse
March 26th, 2007, 08:00 AM
But where's the fun in that...

Sam likes things to fo BOOM too. :) She just makes them go boom on purpose.

suse

O'Neill4prez
March 26th, 2007, 08:33 AM
I cant wait to see how hurt McKay looks when Carter sides with Radek and he thinks its just because she is against him and thinks that Radek is in love with Carter too:sam43: :mckayanime18:

the dancer of spaz
March 26th, 2007, 08:46 AM
You seem to be ignoring something. SAM wanted to take Fifth with her but Jack took matters in his own hands. At the end of the day, Fifth behaved that way because SAM was not allowed to keep her promise and not because SAM decieved him.

Not to get into a Fifth/Gemini discussion, but I think Fifth proved exactly why Jack was right to deceive him in the first place. He evidently was easily corruptible, and no amount of compassion or sympathy would have changed what he was hard-wired to do - which was to conquer and destroy.


McKay's ego kinda takes over when it comes to new technology. Coming back to the example you quoted with project arcturus, one can see how McKay becomes obsessed with that thing. So in a way, McKay goes super crazy when he stumbles over something intriguing,whereas,SAM keeps her cool and makes sure she does not destroy 6/5 of a galaxy...

To be fair, McKay's obsessiveness (which is only more outwardly noticeable than Sam's) is what drives his to answer the questions they need a lot of the times. I think that has helped the team more often than not, though it's true that his arrogance might need to take a beating.

Integrabyte
March 26th, 2007, 10:43 AM
It was 5/6 of a solar system and as McKay said, it was uninhabited

5/6,6/5,10/8,9/63 same thing and not relevant at the end of the day. McKay still destroyed something because as always he thought he is better than the ancients.


Furthermore a colleague of McKay's had aleady died trying to figure out the machine - he wasn't going to let that man die for nothing

That was just an excuse to feed his ego. The guy died because McKay did not want to admit he cannot fix it and he wanted the containment field adjusted manually.
Look closely how nuts he is when Sheppard tries to convince him to let go and admit he is not that intelligent. Project Arcturus was important, no doubt. As the NOX would say, Rodney's way is not the only way ...He failed again miserably in M and Mrs. Miller. When everything was going okay, he took all the credit. When the **** hit the fan he wanted to blame the sister. McKay failed in 3 seasons more times than SAM did in 10.



I think that on some level, McKay feels that he needs to constantly prove himself and that can occasionally lead to errors in judgement that Sam, who I think is more secure in her role, might not make. Sam is also better at working with others and more comfortable with accepting their input.

McKay is rigid and does not see the whole picture like the silly blonde girl who thought she was smarter than SAM and had to show it to everyone. Always looking out for number one and always lurking in someone's shadow. Nothing more....When has SAM ever done this? SAM has worked with Thor who is tenfold more intelligent and she did not patronise. McKay always ends up arguing with Hermiod who should have told him to shut up several times.

Another interesting thing. When McKay finds the personal shield he acts before he thinks. He puts in on, yay, fun, yeeeeeha, and then he realises what he did,not being able to eat, drink, go to the boys room, etc. On top of that, he becomes a scaredy cat and without incentive he does not think how to save someone else than his own arse. In Tao of Rodney, he bets with everyone he can make things work and ends up, again, losing because of his ego. Again,his ego takes over when he is stuck in the puddle jumper on the ocean floor. He knows he should not do that whole "trying to power up the pj" but he does it because he cannot control himself. Has SAM ever done this? Nope, because she thinks before she acts...


To be fair, McKay's obsessiveness (which is only more outwardly noticeable than Sam's) is what drives his to answer the questions they need a lot of the times. I think that has helped the team more often than not, though it's true that his arrogance might need to take a beating.

No doubt he helped the team on many occasions. The cost is way greater when McKay offers a solution than when SAM. McKay jumps at the riskiest solution without balancing out the whole "package". SAM always leaves for last the risky things and makes sure the cost is lower ...

jenks
March 26th, 2007, 10:55 AM
I don't know what show you've been watching, Sam is always rushing in taking risks assuming they'll work, and thanks to the writers, they always do.

fallenexile452
March 26th, 2007, 10:59 AM
I think Sam's military training and discipline come into a lot here, she thinks from all the angles, where as mckay likes to make them work first and figure out what they do later. I think it would be a bit redundant to bring sam in as a scientist because we already have them i think her role is probably going to be more military so that won't be so much "I'm right" "no I'm right" sort of thing going on, undoubtedly though with her in so many episodes they will be going up against each other idea wise a fair few times i would guess, i can't see Sam sitting on the sidelines while McKay does something stupid.

Integrabyte
March 26th, 2007, 10:59 AM
I don't know what show you've been watching, Sam is always rushing in taking risks assuming they'll work, and thanks to the writers, they always do.

Easy way out, blame the writers....McKay is like that because the writers "don't like him" :D

the dancer of spaz
March 26th, 2007, 10:59 AM
I don't know what show you've been watching, Sam is always rushing in taking risks assuming they'll work, and thanks to the writers, they always do.

That's because, just as McKay surmised in S6 of SG-1, Sam works on a more instinctual level. She does take risks that they've seen the consequences of a few times in the past. But the thing that always grates McKay is that she bases her theories on "maybes" and "ifs" and they work anyway. McKay works from a more clinical method, and that works for him as well.

Sam's also proven that she's a fan of using the whole team's talents and strengths to fix the problem, instead of trying to be the one-man band.

jenks
March 26th, 2007, 11:16 AM
Easy way out, blame the writers....McKay is like that because the writers "don't like him" :D

Easy way out? What are you talking about? I aren't going to argue either one is a 'better scientist' because it's a waste of time, but it takes no effort at all to make a character who is super intellegent, just make them right 99% of the time like the writers have done with Carter, which I view as a mistake, I think it's what makes her such a poor character in comparison to McKay. When he works something out it is totally believable, whereas when Carter does imo, it's not.

RepliHawk
March 26th, 2007, 12:05 PM
I aren't going to argue either one is a 'better scientist' because it's a waste of time,

Me either

KindlyKeller
March 26th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Easy way out, blame the writers....McKay is like that because the writers "don't like him" :D

There is some room to blame the writers. It's called the "Mary Sue complex." His point was that BOTH Sam and McKay rush into things, but that Sam's risks are unrealistically shown as ALWAYS paying off.

Killdeer
March 26th, 2007, 04:21 PM
There is some room to blame the writers. It's called the "Mary Sue complex." His point was that BOTH Sam and McKay rush into things, but that Sam's risks are unrealistically shown as ALWAYS paying off.

I agree. Personally, I loved the Carter of Seasons 1-3 when she was still trying to fit in, prove herself, etc. She seemed human, down to earth, someone I could relate to as a character. "Hathor" and "Foothold" are two of my favorite episodes, not because they're so wonderful overall, but because of Carter's part in them. She really played an awesome character back then.

But in later seasons, she became such a "perfect" character that I gradually lost interest in her. She had no redeeming flaws, if that makes any sense. :D There was nothing about her that I could connect to. It seemed to me like the writers portrayed her as great at everything and everyone loved her, and that's just not realistic. In season 8, I ended up crossing the line from disinterest to active dislike when it became apparent that the writers had no intention of holding her responsible for her mistakes, even when she did make them (Gemini). Yes, there were consequences, but no personal consequences to Carter that we saw - no loss of trust from her teammates, no having to answer for her actions to her superiors, nothing. It added to the impression that Carter is so perfect that even when she screws up it's OK, and that was not OK for me.

To contrast this with McKay, I started out hating McKay in "48 Hours" and "Redemption" wasn't much better. When I heard he was going to be in Atlantis I almost didn't watch just because of that. I was surprised at how fast I went from simply tolerating Rodney to loving him. Yes, Rodney is very flawed. He can be arrogant, cowardly, and selfish. But those are precisely the things that make him such a great character in my opinion. He's not some superwonderful person. He has strengths and weaknesses like all of us do. And there are going to be times when his strengths win out, and times when his weaknesses do. And the fact that the Atlantis team accepts him in spite of his flaws, even when they get annoyed, is all part of why I love the Atlantis team like it is.

I don't know what adding Carter to the mix will do to Season 4. Personally, I'm hoping that they will allow her to be more human, more flawed. Adding to her "perfection" by showing McKay up all the time, or giving her the Ancient gene, to cite two examples that have been talked about in this thread, will only make the situation worse in my opinion. I really don't want SuperCarter in Atlantis. She doesn't fit. The Atlantis team are not superheroes. They're flawed people doing the best they can in a tough situation, and I like them that way. A more human, flawed, conflicted Sam....yes, that would work for me. As has been demonstrated, I'm quite willing to change my opinion on a character given new developments. :D I'm somewhat doubtful - after all these years of molding a character in a certain way, can they really change their writing pattern enough and make it be believable character development? The situation presents an excellent opportunity for that - we'll have to see if the writers are up to the challenge. But please, no Superhero Sam riding in to Atlantis and saving the day. :(

That's just how I feel about it - what do you think? :D :D

(Putting on my invisible armor to withstand the stones thrown in my direction :D )

Mitchell82
March 26th, 2007, 05:00 PM
Sam likes things to fo BOOM too. :) She just makes them go boom on purpose.

suse

Yeah and one of my fav sam quotes "You blow up one sun and people expect you to walk on water".:D

Mitchell82
March 26th, 2007, 05:01 PM
I cant wait to see how hurt McKay looks when Carter sides with Radek and he thinks its just because she is against him and thinks that Radek is in love with Carter too:sam43: :mckayanime18:

LOL now that would take the cake wouldnt it! They are both great scientists and I can't wait to see how they play this out.

Koshi700
March 26th, 2007, 05:24 PM
I agree. Personally, I loved the Carter of Seasons 1-3 when she was still trying to fit in, prove herself, etc. She seemed human, down to earth, someone I could relate to as a character. "Hathor" and "Foothold" are two of my favorite episodes, not because they're so wonderful overall, but because of Carter's part in them. She really played an awesome character back then.

But in later seasons, she became such a "perfect" character that I gradually lost interest in her. She had no redeeming flaws, if that makes any sense. :D There was nothing about her that I could connect to. It seemed to me like the writers portrayed her as great at everything and everyone loved her, and that's just not realistic. In season 8, I ended up crossing the line from disinterest to active dislike when it became apparent that the writers had no intention of holding her responsible for her mistakes, even when she did make them (Gemini). Yes, there were consequences, but no personal consequences to Carter that we saw - no loss of trust from her teammates, no having to answer for her actions to her superiors, nothing. It added to the impression that Carter is so perfect that even when she screws up it's OK, and that was not OK for me.

To contrast this with McKay, I started out hating McKay in "48 Hours" and "Redemption" wasn't much better. When I heard he was going to be in Atlantis I almost didn't watch just because of that. I was surprised at how fast I went from simply tolerating Rodney to loving him. Yes, Rodney is very flawed. He can be arrogant, cowardly, and selfish. But those are precisely the things that make him such a great character in my opinion. He's not some superwonderful person. He has strengths and weaknesses like all of us do. And there are going to be times when his strengths win out, and times when his weaknesses do. And the fact that the Atlantis team accepts him in spite of his flaws, even when they get annoyed, is all part of why I love the Atlantis team like it is.

I don't know what adding Carter to the mix will do to Season 4. Personally, I'm hoping that they will allow her to be more human, more flawed. Adding to her "perfection" by showing McKay up all the time, or giving her the Ancient gene, to cite two examples that have been talked about in this thread, will only make the situation worse in my opinion. I really don't want SuperCarter in Atlantis. She doesn't fit. The Atlantis team are not superheroes. They're flawed people doing the best they can in a tough situation, and I like them that way. A more human, flawed, conflicted Sam....yes, that would work for me. As has been demonstrated, I'm quite willing to change my opinion on a character given new developments. :D I'm somewhat doubtful - after all these years of molding a character in a certain way, can they really change their writing pattern enough and make it be believable character development? The situation presents an excellent opportunity for that - we'll have to see if the writers are up to the challenge. But please, no Superhero Sam riding in to Atlantis and saving the day. :(

That's just how I feel about it - what do you think? :D :D

(Putting on my invisible armor to withstand the stones thrown in my direction :D )

All I can say is that I totally agree! I love Sam, and adore Amanda, but Carter has gotten boring in the last few seasons, simply because she *is* so perfect. Where as McKay isn't perfect, his flaws are out there and in your face, I like that. Makes him feel real. Sam has gotten way way way to Mary Sueish, and I run from those with a passion. I'm hoping that they bring back some more humanlike qualities to her rather than having her just be Super Girl all the time. I'm not really sure if I'm excited about her coming over or not, I have very mixed feeling about it, it will depend on how TPTB handle it. And my faith in TPTB has been deeply shaken with this past season so I'm not really holding my breath.

meredithchandler73
March 26th, 2007, 06:57 PM
I have loved the character of Sam from season 1 through season 10. There was something fun and cute about her need to prove herself, but I also like Sam when she's much more confident and isn't trying so hard.

Unending spoiler:
As for Sam being too perfect - I think taking about 50 years to figure out a problem isn't too perfect!!!

Killdeer
March 26th, 2007, 07:41 PM
I have loved the character of Sam from season 1 through season 10. There was something fun and cute about her need to prove herself, but I also like Sam when she's much more confident and isn't trying so hard.

Unending spoiler:
As for Sam being too perfect - I think taking about 50 years to figure out a problem isn't too perfect!!!

That's cool that you've liked her all along. I haven't, but that's me. But I think you maybe missed my point, or else I was really bad at explaining. :D It's not about her intelligence being perfect or flawed, or not just about that anyway. The point I was making had to do with my perception of her being written without any character defects, such as Rodney's arrogance. Sam as she's written now has no apparent personality flaws, except for her lack of flaws. Everyone in her world seems to love her, praise her, forgive her failures, have total and complete faith in her. Even the villains obsess over her (Fifth). For me, that's too unreal - I'm sorry.

Copernicus
March 26th, 2007, 08:57 PM
That was just an excuse to feed his ego. The guy died because McKay did not want to admit he cannot fix it and he wanted the containment field adjusted manually.
Whoa whoa. Hold on a moment there buddy.

The individual that died in Trinity died before anyone could have anticipated the effects of the device. At the moment the accident occurred McKay had no access to Zelenka's data showing the inherently unstable nature of the project. The individual's life would have been lost regardless of whether or not McKay's arrogance got the better of him, as McKay's poor judgments came after the individual's death, which is precisely why Rodney's error is perceived to be forgivable. No one died after Rodney began making poor decisions.

Furthermore, even if we were assigning blame for that scientist's death to anything other than the risky nature of the job, it would be fallacious to place blame on McKay in this one event and then blame Carter's failure in Gemini on General O'Neill because he gave the order. By the Gemini logic, Dr. Weir is at fault, not McKay. Either McKay and Carter are both at fault for their respective actions, or neither are at fault. You simply cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Killdeer brought up an excellent point about the presence of flaws within characters being necessary to make them believable. Writers walk a fine line in this regard. Nobody wants to watch a perfect character. At the same time, nobody wants to see a flawed character remain in neutral for the whole run of a show. Rodney's character, in my opinion, has been one of the best-handled characters in the Stargate universe in this respect. We see him making slow progress in coming to terms with his faults. I loved the line in First Strike where he states, (no spoilers necessary because it really gives nothing away), that he doesn't know most of the people who work for him, nor does he care to. He is aware of his faults and he is at liberty to decide whether it is worth his time to try to fix them. Contrast that to "Letters from Pegasus", where he gave a humourous, but also quite revealing speech on the subject of leadership. At that point, he was still under the impression that he could be a leader just as well as he could calculate blast yields, which was obviously a mistake.

Honestly, I would recommend that the writers take a page out of the fans' book when Sam comes to Atlantis. It's a page most of us have unknowingly written, but it provides a great flaw to be explored. What, if anything, do most people dislike about Sam right now? Aside from her perfection, it's the feeling that she's replacing Dr. Weir. Now, I personally don't feel this way, especially after reading Joe's blog on the subject, but it's not about what's true and what isn't, but rather it's about what people perceive. Regardless of what happens to Weir in season four, why not make the characters on Atlantis dislike Sam because they feel like she is replacing Weir in many aspects? It wouldn't have to be true, just like how it's not necessarily true in real life, but the perception would be enough to create some conflicts, and how she deals with it could be the source of a flaw that the writers could work with.

carterrocks
March 27th, 2007, 04:09 AM
Yeah and one of my fav sam quotes "You blow up one sun and people expect you to walk on water".:D

Luvs it lmao

Sparky13
March 27th, 2007, 05:12 AM
why not make the characters on Atlantis dislike Sam because they feel like she is replacing Weir in many aspects? It wouldn't have to be true, just like how it's not necessarily true in real life, but the perception would be enough to create some conflicts, and how she deals with it could be the source of a flaw that the writers could work with.

Oh, I wish! But I don't think that the writers can do this. Or, I don't think that they will do this. They get character amnesia all the time. After "Sunday," in the episode "Submersion," they had a perfect opportunity to
deal with the repercussions of Carson's death. A jumper full of people going down, down, down to an underwater installation. How much more symbolic of grief can you get? Yet, instead of the characters acknowledging that they have lost a friend, nobody seems to remember that Carson even existed. Amnesia!

I have a feeling that when Carter arrives, she will start making notes and taking names and, within an episode or two, nobody will mention Elizabeth again. And I think that McKay, who was very much on Elizabeth's side and even
wrote a 500-page book lauding her work and remarked to a colonel "That's not your decision to make. It's Dr. Weir's" (or something like that)

will end up agreeing with her more times than not. As will everyone else, including Sheppard.

It would be wonderful (in the dramatic sense) for Carter (and Keller) to have to prove themselves in Atlantis. Yes, even Carter! She is such a Mary Sue, though, I think the writers won't bother with trying to create conflict with her character. She'll just walk in and sit down behind Elizabeth's desk and, boom, that's it.

kymeric
March 27th, 2007, 09:49 AM
I just go ahead and say what everyone is thinking, they should mate.

UBER mckay/carter babiez ftw!

KindlyKeller
March 27th, 2007, 11:22 AM
Whoa whoa. Hold on a moment there buddy.

The individual that died in Trinity died before anyone could have anticipated the effects of the device. At the moment the accident occurred McKay had no access to Zelenka's data showing the inherently unstable nature of the project. The individual's life would have been lost regardless of whether or not McKay's arrogance got the better of him, as McKay's poor judgments came after the individual's death, which is precisely why Rodney's error is perceived to be forgivable. No one died after Rodney began making poor decisions.

Furthermore, even if we were assigning blame for that scientist's death to anything other than the risky nature of the job, it would be fallacious to place blame on McKay in this one event and then blame Carter's failure in Gemini on General O'Neill because he gave the order. By the Gemini logic, Dr. Weir is at fault, not McKay. Either McKay and Carter are both at fault for their respective actions, or neither are at fault. You simply cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Killdeer brought up an excellent point about the presence of flaws within characters being necessary to make them believable. Writers walk a fine line in this regard. Nobody wants to watch a perfect character. At the same time, nobody wants to see a flawed character remain in neutral for the whole run of a show. Rodney's character, in my opinion, has been one of the best-handled characters in the Stargate universe in this respect. We see him making slow progress in coming to terms with his faults. I loved the line in First Strike where he states, (no spoilers necessary because it really gives nothing away), that he doesn't know most of the people who work for him, nor does he care to. He is aware of his faults and he is at liberty to decide whether it is worth his time to try to fix them. Contrast that to "Letters from Pegasus", where he gave a humourous, but also quite revealing speech on the subject of leadership. At that point, he was still under the impression that he could be a leader just as well as he could calculate blast yields, which was obviously a mistake.

Honestly, I would recommend that the writers take a page out of the fans' book when Sam comes to Atlantis. It's a page most of us have unknowingly written, but it provides a great flaw to be explored. What, if anything, do most people dislike about Sam right now? Aside from her perfection, it's the feeling that she's replacing Dr. Weir. Now, I personally don't feel this way, especially after reading Joe's blog on the subject, but it's not about what's true and what isn't, but rather it's about what people perceive. Regardless of what happens to Weir in season four, why not make the characters on Atlantis dislike Sam because they feel like she is replacing Weir in many aspects? It wouldn't have to be true, just like how it's not necessarily true in real life, but the perception would be enough to create some conflicts, and how she deals with it could be the source of a flaw that the writers could work with.

Agree with all of that. I'm not necessarily on the angry-they're-replacing-Weir bandwagon, but that's a great point you bring up. It'd be quite the compelling story.

Mitchell82
March 27th, 2007, 12:37 PM
I have loved the character of Sam from season 1 through season 10. There was something fun and cute about her need to prove herself, but I also like Sam when she's much more confident and isn't trying so hard.

Unending spoiler:
As for Sam being too perfect - I think taking about 50 years to figure out a problem isn't too perfect!!!

I agree. She isnt as perfect as some suggest she makes plenty of mistakes, "Red Sky" comes to mind. I truly love Sam and can't wait to see what TPTB do with this.

Integrabyte
March 28th, 2007, 08:20 AM
I agree. She isnt as perfect as some suggest she makes plenty of mistakes, "Red Sky" comes to mind. I truly love Sam and can't wait to see what TPTB do with this.

When it comes to Red Sky one needs to bear in mind that nobody came up with a DHD except SAM. So, at the end of the day, the violation of those 200 procedures in SAM's DHD was a risk taken by the SGC every time they stepped through the gate. Did anyone come up with a better DHD back then? When SAM was doing DHDs McKay was running from lemons with all his qualifications :D. On the same note, Teal'c ends up in the buffer because SAM's DHD was not perfect. It was entirely her fault. Then Meredith comes along and criticises the cafeteria which was more important than helping SAM :P.

Integrabyte
March 28th, 2007, 08:30 AM
Yeah and one of my fav sam quotes "You blow up one sun and people expect you to walk on water".:D

You know there was a guy once ... :P. Love what she adds after that line when she successfully hooks up to the Dakara device ;).

Mitchell82
March 28th, 2007, 08:40 AM
When it comes to Red Sky one needs to bear in mind that nobody came up with a DHD except SAM. So, at the end of the day, the violation of those 200 procedures in SAM's DHD was a risk taken by the SGC every time they stepped through the gate. Did anyone come up with a better DHD back then? When SAM was doing DHDs McKay was running from lemons with all his qualifications :D. On the same note, Teal'c ends up in the buffer because SAM's DHD was not perfect. It was entirely her fault. Then Meredith comes along and criticises the cafeteria which was more important than helping SAM :P.

LOL yeah I just watched 48 hours again yesterday and I really hated Rodney when he first appeared. Luckilly he grew on me.

Copernicus
March 28th, 2007, 12:25 PM
LOL yeah I just watched 48 hours again yesterday and I really hated Rodney when he first appeared. Luckilly he grew on me.
I watched Redemption, which portrayed McKay much more positively, before I ever saw 48 Hours. 48 Hours was a rude shock in that sense. I don't often rewatch episodes because I have a pretty good memory, but I go out of my way not to rewatch 48 Hours.

the dancer of spaz
March 28th, 2007, 12:28 PM
I watched Redemption, which portrayed McKay much more positively, before I ever saw 48 Hours. 48 Hours was a rude shock in that sense. I don't often rewatch episodes because I have a pretty good memory, but I go out of my way not to rewatch 48 Hours.

The thing about 48 Hours and Redemption is that it proves that McKay has always been a jerk. When he was introduced to the audience, he was an antagonist. And though he's been given opportunities to grow and shine on Atlantis, he's still a bit of a jerk. We just know that he's compassionate and has a heart now. :p But he's still as blunt and impatient as ever before.

That's why I don't get why people say that McKay changes when he's around Carter.

Copernicus
March 28th, 2007, 12:33 PM
The thing about 48 Hours and Redemption is that it proves that McKay has always been a jerk. When he was introduced to the audience, he was an antagonist. And though he's been given opportunities to grow and shine on Atlantis, he's still a bit of a jerk. We just know that he's compassionate and has a heart now. :p But he's still as blunt and impatient as ever before.

That's why I don't get why people say that McKay changes when he's around Carter.
It's not so much that he changes, but his role changes. It's not a coincidence that almost nobody on SG1 has a line with McKay except for Carter: he was designed as a foil for her character. Furthermore, with Carter being a main character on the show, there's a need for her to be right, and there's a need for you to want her to be right. In order to accomplish that, a writer needs to play up McKay's more jerkish attributes to generate sympathy for Carter. In the end, McKay comes across as slightly different because when Carter's around because the writers need him to fill a different role.

the dancer of spaz
March 28th, 2007, 12:49 PM
It's not so much that he changes, but his role changes. It's not a coincidence that almost nobody on SG1 has a line with McKay except for Carter: he was designed as a foil for her character. Furthermore, with Carter being a main character on the show, there's a need for her to be right, and there's a need for you to want her to be right. In order to accomplish that, a writer needs to play up McKay's more jerkish attributes to generate sympathy for Carter. In the end, McKay comes across as slightly different because when Carter's around because the writers need him to fill a different role.

Besides Cameron, McKay has only spoken with Carter. And while I agree that they should've had him interact with others - like, say, Daniel - it makes sense that Carter and McKay would spend the most time together, due to the fact that they have the longest history, and because they're typically the scientific expositional force behind the episode.

I disagree that anything is ever "played up" when Carter is around. In both GUP and M&MM, when Carter and McKay interact it's on McKay's turf, on a show where he's clearly the lead character and she's merely a visitor. McKay was created as a foil to Carter, but his jerkish tendencies go beyond his interactions with her. Look at McKay's behavior in M&MM.

Carter was only in the first 10 minutes or so, and after that, McKay became threatened both by his younger sister AND his AU counterpart. He acted out, because he was worried that not only Jeannie liked AU McKay more, but that his friends liked him more as well.

When McKay's position as resident genius is threatened, or when he's with people who are his intellectual equals, his demeanor changes, whether it's with Carter or Zelenka. He goes on the offensive, he's impatient, etc. And that's OK, because it's a part of his character. He treats Zelenka like dirt, but we know he cares about him. He's incredibly impatient with Beckett, but we know he cares about him, too. He demeans Carter, but we know he respects her. The list goes on and on. And every time, we see rolling of the eyes or scoffing from his friends, because no one likes it, but everyone expects it from him.

I don't see how people see such a difference in his behavior or his role, beyond the fact that Carter is not as close to him as his friends are, and therefore isn't as likely to be forgiving. Yet we've seen that Carter, like his good friends, is still able to get him to do the right thing in the end.

It seems to me that fans don't like Carter, because she takes away from interaction that can be seen between McKay and the others, which is a valid concern. But, imo, McKay's role is the same with her as it is with the others.

KindlyKeller
March 28th, 2007, 02:21 PM
When it comes to Red Sky one needs to bear in mind that nobody came up with a DHD except SAM. So, at the end of the day, the violation of those 200 procedures in SAM's DHD was a risk taken by the SGC every time they stepped through the gate. Did anyone come up with a better DHD back then? When SAM was doing DHDs McKay was running from lemons with all his qualifications :D. On the same note, Teal'c ends up in the buffer because SAM's DHD was not perfect. It was entirely her fault. Then Meredith comes along and criticises the cafeteria which was more important than helping SAM :P.

I'm getting the impression you're not a big Rodney fan.

Killdeer
March 28th, 2007, 02:25 PM
That's why I don't get why people say that McKay changes when he's around Carter.

It's not the arrogance that's the problem - you're right. That doesn't change. It's the lecherousness that Rodney shows toward Carter that's the problem. I've never seen him treat another woman this way (with the possible exception of the look he gave Teyla at the end of "Irresistable.") He may be abrasive and unfeeling, but he doesn't treat them as sex objects. But Carter is his fantasy, and he acts extremely juvenile around her. That's what I have a problem with - huge huge huge problems with. That's why I can't stand to watch most of their scenes - the only exception being McKay & Mrs Miller. There, he was too distracted by his issues with Jeannie to play his usual juvenile flirting games with Carter.

the dancer of spaz
March 28th, 2007, 02:43 PM
It's not the arrogance that's the problem - you're right. That doesn't change. It's the lecherousness that Rodney shows toward Carter that's the problem. I've never seen him treat another woman this way (with the possible exception of the look he gave Teyla at the end of "Irresistable.") He may be abrasive and unfeeling, but he doesn't treat them as sex objects. But Carter is his fantasy, and he acts extremely juvenile around her. That's what I have a problem with - huge huge huge problems with. That's why I can't stand to watch most of their scenes - the only exception being McKay & Mrs Miller. There, he was too distracted by his issues with Jeannie to play his usual juvenile flirting games with Carter.

Yeah, I can understand how that would be an issue for many. As a huge Carter fan, I hate it when she's reduced to a sex object as well. However, for me anyway, McKay's issues with Carter, though at times superficial and juvenile, are much deeper rooted.

Even in Pegasus Project, they had their obligatory, "Ooh btw you were naked in my fantasy-hallucination last year/Ew, gross!" bit in the beginning, and they moved on to the more pressing issue for the rest of the episode. And through their different ways of approaching issues, with Teal'c's help - and in spite of Cameron's unnecessary presence - they took care of business.

Since Day One of them meeting, it's been an obvious competition between them to see who's right. McKay's not afraid to call Carter out on the fact that she doesn't always make the right decisions, and Carter's not afraid to call McKay out on the fact that he's a belligerent jerk. I think that works.

But I'm also hoping they don't turn into a some lame crush/flirty fest next year. That'd totally kill the enjoyment for me. :S

Reichiru
March 28th, 2007, 03:11 PM
I have to admit, I enjoy the banter between them. But what I'm worried about is an excess of McKay and Carter scenes. As much as I love both of them, I don't want them to completely overpower the show with their strange, strange relationship.

And in regards to the relationship itself, as it has been brought up, I think the reason Rodney acts so different toward Sam is not because he thinks of her as a sex object, but more because they are in the same field and are competition for each other (especially now that Rodney is starting to get on a more level playing ground with his work in Atlantis). It's the same as trying to beat someone out for the best score in a class. "Oh, you got a 98%? Well I got 100." And then add attraction on top of competition and you just have insanity. :P And I think the fact Rodney knows he can't have Sam is another reason he acts like a jerk around her. More of that whole pushing people away mentality.

jenks
March 28th, 2007, 04:03 PM
Besides Cameron, McKay has only spoken with Carter. And while I agree that they should've had him interact with others - like, say, Daniel - it makes sense that Carter and McKay would spend the most time together, due to the fact that they have the longest history, and because they're typically the scientific expositional force behind the episode.



I liked what little interaction he had with Jonas, I get feeling he was actually quietly impressed by him.

Copernicus
March 28th, 2007, 05:01 PM
But I'm also hoping they don't turn into a some lame crush/flirty fest next year. That'd totally kill the enjoyment for me. :S
Logically speaking, and ignoring the powers that be and their occasional departure from logic, it would make sense that Rodney would be more toned down around Sam as a regular, not for any casting reasons but because of how people actually act in real life. If you are attracted to someone that you will only see three or four times a year, you are more likely to try to stand out: you cannot afford to just hope you get noticed by someone when you see that someone so rarely. Of course, this leads to embarrassing situations when your attempt to stand out goes badly, as we've seen with McKay and Carter. On the other hand, when you see the person everyday the desperation to be remembered from encounter to encounter drops off and you act more normally. Hopefully this is what will happen.

carterrocks
August 8th, 2007, 06:06 AM
I'm pretty sure McKay will calm down, if he doesnt Carter may have to make him...but then again he might like that ^_^ lol

vaberella
August 8th, 2007, 10:33 AM
I'm pretty sure McKay will calm down, if he doesnt Carter may have to make him...but then again he might like that ^_^ lol

I actually found after watching Mckay and Mrs. Miller that they've established the new dynamic in the Carter/McKay relationship. If he was infatuated with her and enthralled as seen through GUP, I found MMM show that McKay has no real romantic inclinations towards Carter, actually nearly none besides friendship. That's actually what I want. I had a problem with GUP because of his interaction with Sam, and later in that ep where SG1 showed up on SGA, ugh...I couldn't stand it.

If this is due to the direction with Katie Brown, even though I dislike the character---meh she saved me from a love-sick McKay mooning over Carter. :D

the dancer of spaz
August 8th, 2007, 10:39 AM
I actually found after watching Mckay and Mrs. Miller that they've established the new dynamic in the Carter/McKay relationship. If he was infatuated with her and enthralled as seen through GUP, I found MMM show that McKay has no real romantic inclinations towards Carter, actually nearly none besides friendship. That's actually what I want. I had a problem with GUP because of his interaction with Sam, and later in that ep where SG1 showed up on SGA, ugh...I couldn't stand it.

If this is due to the direction with Katie Brown, even though I dislike the character---meh she saved me from a love-sick McKay mooning over Carter. :D

M&MM definitely cemented the friendship dynamic for me, too. SG-1's Pegasus Project, in the beginning, seemed to be going down an annoying road, and then they got to business and it was fine. Also, SG-1's The Road Not Taken showed how McKay and Carter can worked together platonically, even though that was an AU Rodney. They were obviously very similar, so it worked.

There will probably always be a hint of the attraction stuff, but I like that they're now going to have to deal with each other every day. And with Katie Brown thrown in the mix, I agree that there will be zero room for mooning. Of any kind. :P

vaberella
August 8th, 2007, 10:53 AM
M&MM definitely cemented the friendship dynamic for me, too. SG-1's Pegasus Project, in the beginning, seemed to be going down an annoying road, and then they got to business and it was fine. Also, SG-1's The Road Not Taken showed how McKay and Carter can worked together platonically, even though that was an AU Rodney. They were obviously very similar, so it worked.

Another SG1 ep that vabby hasn't seen. Pooh!!! Will be on top of it.


There will probably always be a hint of the attraction stuff, but I like that they're now going to have to deal with each other every day. And with Katie Brown thrown in the mix, I agree that there will be zero room for mooning. Of any kind. :P

Yeah, Katie Brown. Do you think she's so named to McKay's, Charlie Brown persona?! In any event...I dislike her, actually she would make me moon everyone else; doormat that she is... But all in all, her characters inception has probably leashed McKay.

Now, that's great in regards to Carter. Absolutely awful if there happens to be some uber hot and smart alien in the PG that would be better... Allina [The Brotherhood] comes to mind. :(