PDA

View Full Version : Asgard weapon against the Wraith



Ripple in Space
March 13th, 2007, 11:27 AM
Since we know the Asgard can transport ships, and even things as large as skyscrapers, I think a new weapon against the Wraith could be Asgard transporters, but in a different use.

Darts go really fast, right? They're also made out of a fairly dense material, so why not beam up some moving darts, and re-materialize them aimed at a Wraith Hive? They'd surely do more damage than a railgun round, and we can't beam nukes aboard anymore.....

Psi
March 13th, 2007, 11:32 AM
This falls in the same category as many other ideas that are cool but that they will never try because it's a tv show and they can't do everything.

Sicktem
March 13th, 2007, 09:27 PM
Why bother with darts if you can beam them close enough to where they cannot pull up before they hit the Hive? If you could beam something that close to a Hive then they could just beam a nuke there and have it go off. Unfortunately, the most likely issue is that their jamming technology extends quite a bit around the ship so they can't get anything too much closer then if they tried getting missles past the darts.

wise one
March 14th, 2007, 08:44 AM
why do that when we have this!!!!

look at my sig at your own risk!!!

Elite Anubis Guard
March 14th, 2007, 09:02 AM
But they can't replicate that weaponry yet.

J_B
March 14th, 2007, 09:53 AM
Since we know the Asgard can transport ships, and even things as large as skyscrapers, I think a new weapon against the Wraith could be Asgard transporters, but in a different use.

Darts go really fast, right? They're also made out of a fairly dense material, so why not beam up some moving darts, and re-materialize them aimed at a Wraith Hive? They'd surely do more damage than a railgun round, and we can't beam nukes aboard anymore.....

That wouldn't work!

The Wraith ships activate a jammer. Compare that to real life, where stuff like cell pohone jammers have various ranges that affect everything within the broadcast radius.

A 304 jumps in, Wraith ship activates the jammer. The Darts are inside this range, hence they cannot beam through it to get any Darts. They would need to retreat then let the Darts come outside this zone, scoop them up then beam them back. Problem with that, is that they could only beam them to the edge of the jammer zone, which will be far enough away fromn the Wraith ship that the Dart has plenty of time to turn around.

If it was that simple, then why bother with Darts. Why not simply fire a nuke towards a Wraith ship, beam it up & then transport it to a few m's from the Hive's hull. Re-Materialize it & there is no way a Dart would have enough time to intercept it before it impacts into the hull. It's the exact same principle as what you are proposing.

Not sure what size the jammer range is, but the absolute minimum would be a few hundred m's. However given that the Hives are around 11km's long, then it's more likely to be something like a few km's around the ship. Thus giving them well enough time to get some Darts there or train their weapons on the bogey & take it out.

Fact is it can't be done because the Wraith will always have ample time to intercept whatever is being beamed towards them.

Integrabyte
March 14th, 2007, 01:15 PM
But they can't replicate that weaponry yet.

They will soon :). Unless TPTB do the classic and destroy all Asgard evidence :D.

garhkal
March 14th, 2007, 07:34 PM
What about, instead of beaming the darts into the path of the hive, why not use the beamer to clear a path for our missiles, since darts love crashing into them..

immhotep
March 15th, 2007, 03:39 AM
Spoilers for 10x20:
The new asgard weapons could take out an Ori ship in 6 hits, 4 to take out the shields and two to destroy the hull. Now with a hive being much larger, but unshielded i estimate it would take 4 hits to destroy a hive.
However with a rate of fire of 12 shots per minute, we could take on 3 hives in 1 minute. Now even at normal power source a deadalus can last 2-3 minutes under fire. With an Asgard core or a ZPM we could up that to 5-10 minute. With all three of our current deadali's upraded to the Legacy specs they would only need to take out 16 hives each to be able to destroy every wraith hive in the galaxy. If we can last even 5 minutes in battle with the wraith with all three deadali's upgraded then we could wipe out every single hive that remains in pegasus in one all out attack with reletive easy. It would take 15 minutes and three upgraded deadalus class ships towipe out the wraith. What need to do is find out exactly where all those ships are and hit them in one all out attack. If we had other deadalus classes then it would be even easier. If all three curent ships worked as a single unit they could would be able to decimate the wraith in a very short space of time.

Bottom line is that any way you spin this, the wraith are no longer a threat, the Asurians are even less of threat believe it or not:
We have the Asgard database including the designs and instructions, we hope to build antireplicator satalites. Build one of those, or modify the deadalus like thor did in new order and send it to Asuris, job done. Then all wwe do is take away thier stargate so no more can come through from other planets. Then leave the satalite in orbit with a program to fire at will on everything.

Two all out offensives and the pegasus galaxy is free.

Elite Anubis Guard
March 15th, 2007, 03:45 AM
Legacy? You mean Odyssey?

Prior_of_the_Ori
March 15th, 2007, 03:54 AM
Doubt one can say the Wraith and the Asurans are out yet....

Solarblazer
March 15th, 2007, 03:56 AM
After seeing sg1 unending,I truly hope sga will be introduced with an upgraded apollo,mainly asgard weapons they used to destroy the oriships.
I know they couldnt use the weapons right away,but maybe they have rebuild there own with the help of asgard instructions or even better find a way to mask the asgard tech so they can use it with out the danger of being detected.It would all be a waste if we canot use the asgard knowlegde and tech.If the writters know what they are doing and truly know there stuff they have to keep the hope alive of us able to use and upgrade our ships.

FoxyEX
March 15th, 2007, 04:06 AM
Spoilers for 10x20:
We have the Asgard database including the designs and instructions, we hope to build antireplicator satalites. Build one of those, or modify the deadalus like thor did in new order and send it to Asuris, job done. Then all wwe do is take away thier stargate so no more can come through from other planets. Then leave the satalite in orbit with a program to fire at will on everything.Earth was already developing PW-ARWs before they even got the Asgard database.

immhotep
March 15th, 2007, 04:13 AM
And now they dont need to build them, with an asgard core and computer system like the Daniel jackson had they should be able to modify the ship like thor did.

J_B
March 15th, 2007, 04:41 AM
What about, instead of beaming the darts into the path of the hive, why not use the beamer to clear a path for our missiles, since darts love crashing into them..

Lol, once again they can't beam within the jamming range. Hence Darts are inside it, so they can't be beamed away anywhere. Even if they were, 100's are launched all around the Hive, so there would be no way to get them all out anyhow.

Anubis-
March 15th, 2007, 05:20 AM
Lol, once again they can't beam within the jamming range. Hence Darts are inside it, so they can't be beamed away anywhere. Even if they were, 100's are launched all around the Hive, so there would be no way to get them all out anyhow.

Beaming technology in Promethius, Daedalus, Odessey, Corolev are little bit different then Asgard's O'Neill class.

Daedalus & etc need somekind mark of the target, that they can beam but Asgard cam beam anything anywhere when they want. Maybe that's not only difference.
Maybe Asgard bilt our beam technology to vulnerable, just because of that. (beaming bomb's to enemy ship).

J_B
March 15th, 2007, 05:56 AM
Beaming technology in Promethius, Daedalus, Odessey, Corolev are little bit different then Asgard's O'Neill class.

Daedalus & etc need somekind mark of the target, that they can beam but Asgard cam beam anything anywhere when they want. Maybe that's not only difference.
Maybe Asgard bilt our beam technology to vulnerable, just because of that. (beaming bomb's to enemy ship).

Actually in the 304's beaming tech is exactly the same. It was only on Prometheus originally was it the weaker version.

The only difference between Asgard beaming tech & Earth tech is the sensors. The more advanced Asgard sensors can distinguish between individuals, while 304's cannot. Hence they need to tag whatever it is that they want.

From Revelations:


HEIMDALL
I have located Thor's bio signature here.

O'NEILL
Why don't you just beam him out?

HEIMDALL
Although my sensors can penetrate the Goa'uld shields, my transportation device cannot.

CARTER
Can you detect Goa'uld lifesigns as well?

HEIMDALL
I can.

From 'Off the Grid':


MITCHELL: We beam onto the ship, make our way into the cargo hold and tag the gates with these suckers. "He holds up a black device."

DANIEL: Locator beacons.

Daniel takes the beacon from Mitchell and examines it.

CARTER: They only operate through sub-space so they shouldn't be detected. Once we lock onto their signal, we beam back the gates, beam ourselves out and hopefully, be gone before Baal notices the difference.


MARKS: Sir, we've got a problem.

EMERSON: (into radio) Baal's shields just went back up, you're going to have to sit tight.

The Scourge (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/917.shtml)

Read the analysis of it at the bottom of the page.

This is said in the ep:


DANIEL: But they'll beam us out of here first.

CARTER: Our transmitters won't work because of the interference in the atmosphere.

DANIEL: What about our life signs?

CARTER: Because the bugs are multiplying at an alarming rate and because of the fact that we are completely surrounded, the Odyssey won't be able to pick up our individual readings inside a sea of life signs.

Asgard beams are the exact same as the 304's, it's just the fact that they have much more advanced sensors that are able to distinguish between lifeforms. Such as how in 'New Order' Thor beamed O'Neill up instantly without them giving him an exact location. They both have the weakness that they cannot beam through shields. Other than that, nothing else.

Asgard can't get around the Wraith jammer because Hermiod couldn't do it in 'TSIII', right up until 'Allies' he was still unable to get around it. Their ships would be the exact same. The only advantage they have is better scanners, so they can get more accurate data, take it back home, then work on a way to counteract it.

wise one
March 15th, 2007, 07:38 AM
someone said beaming a path through for the missiles to reach the hive

well since

given asgard knowledge, we could hopefully make a beam ray like on the beliskner, which tranported 3 hataks and jaffa

if we had that then the hive armour would just be gone and then leaving a hole on the hive where all the atmoshere will go and leave a hive dead

Anubis-
March 15th, 2007, 08:27 AM
Actually in the 304's beaming tech is exactly the same. It was only on Prometheus originally was it the weaker version.

The only difference between Asgard beaming tech & Earth tech is the sensors. The more advanced Asgard sensors can distinguish between individuals, while 304's cannot. Hence they need to tag whatever it is that they want.

From s10e01, they (mitchell) needed put on Bra'tac own mark, that Odessey can beam him out. (And that Ha'tak was no shields, war was taken them off.)

Same with Stargates, (episode, where Baal stolen it).


HEIMDALL
I have located Thor's bio signature here.

O'NEILL
Why don't you just beam him out?

HEIMDALL
Although my sensors can penetrate the Goa'uld shields, my transportation device cannot.

CARTER
Can you detect Goa'uld lifesigns as well?

HEIMDALL
I can.

I for got that, but Wraith did not have shields. But just like Heimdall says, it is not matter of sensors, it is beam himselfs.

J_B
March 15th, 2007, 09:03 AM
From s10e01, they (mitchell) needed put on Bra'tac own mark, that Odessey can beam him out. (And that Ha'tak was no shields, war was taken them off.)

Same with Stargates, (episode, where Baal stolen it).



I for got that, but Wraith did not have shields. But just like Heimdall says, it is not matter of sensors, it is beam himselfs.

Exactly my point!

It's not the beaming tech that's better, it's simply the sensors. Asgard ones can distingish between people, lifeforms & objects while 304's cant...Simple as that!

In order for them to select targets to beam up, they need to tag them. That has nothing to do with the beaming tech or abilities though. Asgard & 304's are the same in that regard, just that humans have less advanced sensors. Therefore they need to tag whatever they want beamed up if they have to select what needs to get brought on board.

mikeroq
March 15th, 2007, 09:17 AM
After Unending
I think we have Asgard Sensors now

J_B
March 15th, 2007, 11:03 AM
After Unending
I think we have Asgard Sensors now

Perhaps Odyssey has them installed, but the bridge looked untouched, so I'd doubt it for the mean time.

Although if Carter comes in a new ship, then that may have have them. However I don't really think it's too much of a problem for them the way it is just now. The main teams already have transmitters, they can't beam through shields which Asurans have, while they can't use the beaming tech when the Wraith jammer is on. Hence, having more advanced sensors really doesn't give them much that they didn't have before.

Pharaoh Atem
March 15th, 2007, 11:08 AM
the asgaurd weapons would cut thought the hives ship like a knife and warm butter. :D escpsially the new toys

Anubis-
March 15th, 2007, 03:38 PM
I did not read full topic, but does anybody realize, that beam looks same, what Replicator ship fire Apophis mothership at season 05 episode 01?

jenks
March 15th, 2007, 07:28 PM
Even if all out ships were as advanced as the Odyssey I doubt we'd be able to defeat the Wraith just yet. They had far superior ships and they were still overwhelmed. Good news is we have alot more manpower than they did.

Ripple in Space
March 15th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Spoilers for 10x20:
The new asgard weapons could take out an Ori ship in 6 hits, 4 to take out the shields and two to destroy the hull. Now with a hive being much larger, but unshielded i estimate it would take 4 hits to destroy a hive.
However with a rate of fire of 12 shots per minute, we could take on 3 hives in 1 minute. Now even at normal power source a deadalus can last 2-3 minutes under fire. With an Asgard core or a ZPM we could up that to 5-10 minute. With all three of our current deadali's upraded to the Legacy specs they would only need to take out 16 hives each to be able to destroy every wraith hive in the galaxy. If we can last even 5 minutes in battle with the wraith with all three deadali's upgraded then we could wipe out every single hive that remains in pegasus in one all out attack with reletive easy. It would take 15 minutes and three upgraded deadalus class ships towipe out the wraith. What need to do is find out exactly where all those ships are and hit them in one all out attack. If we had other deadalus classes then it would be even easier. If all three curent ships worked as a single unit they could would be able to decimate the wraith in a very short space of time.

Bottom line is that any way you spin this, the wraith are no longer a threat, the Asurians are even less of threat believe it or not:
We have the Asgard database including the designs and instructions, we hope to build antireplicator satalites. Build one of those, or modify the deadalus like thor did in new order and send it to Asuris, job done. Then all wwe do is take away thier stargate so no more can come through from other planets. Then leave the satalite in orbit with a program to fire at will on everything.

Two all out offensives and the pegasus galaxy is free.

In my mind a single Aurora is still vastly superior to the Asgard Odyssey. It is a fact that the Lanteans had beam tech, beam tech strong enough to demolish a Hiveship w/ a single shot. Yet as far as we know they're Warship's primary weapons were Drones. We also know that Drones require markedly more power than beams, so one can't argue that beams are more power-efficient.

Therefore IMO drones are vastly superior. I think Lantean shields are the best around, since Atlantis was able to take decades of bombardment, where Odyssey was destroyed by a few mega-hits.

While Asgard tech is amazing, probably #2 in the Universe, I still think Alteran is #1, and the Asurans use Alteran tech w/ full mastery.

The Wraith are ambiguous. From what we've seen Alteran tech decimates Hiveships (their strongest known vessel). Single beam cannon shot, and single drone swarm shreds hives like tissue paper. We must assume that the Wraith either had 100's of now decommissioned Hiveships, or some kind of Warship that was decommissioned after they no longer had any technological rivals.

Major Tyler
March 15th, 2007, 08:17 PM
I did not read full topic, but does anybody realize, that beam looks same, what Replicator ship fire Apophis mothership at season 05 episode 01?Um...it was blue. :thoranime07:

Anubis-
March 15th, 2007, 11:42 PM
Even if all out ships were as advanced as the Odyssey I doubt we'd be able to defeat the Wraith just yet. They had far superior ships and they were still overwhelmed. Good news is we have alot more manpower than they did.

Wraith are amasing fast do thing. In season 02, episode 01, they realize how stop beaming less then minute. Maybe they are able make a shield, if it is nessesary.

And Ancients got drones. And they did not defeated Wraith. I think, that new weapon can not defeat Wraith, but now we does not need to be worry, if Apollo got enemy contact.

Edit
And Rodney McKay need to install these weapon in Atlantis and figured how they can make work trougt chair. And also need make own defense-satelite.

And are Asgard powersource enough power to replace ZPM's on Atlantis?

funks
March 15th, 2007, 11:50 PM
I'm not sure if those weapons will really be effective against other targets.. The asgard probably figured out how to take advantage of the flactuations in the ori shields to take destabilize it (they noted the flactuations in past episodes).

From the way the ORI moships were hit, didn't look like it was just pure awesome power punching through the shield (kinda like when that ORI designed satellite hit the prometheus, or when a toilet ship fires it's primary weapon), more like it destabilized it somehow and made it loose cohesion.

The ORI most likey use different shield technology compared to the ancients / asurans..

Integrabyte
March 16th, 2007, 03:30 AM
I'm not sure if those weapons will really be effective against other targets.. The asgard probably figured out how to take advantage of the flactuations in the ori shields to take destabilize it (they noted the flactuations in past episodes).

From the way the ORI moships were hit, didn't look like it was just pure awesome power punching through the shield (kinda like when that ORI designed satellite hit the prometheus, or when a toilet ship fires it's primary weapon), more like it destabilized it somehow and made it loose cohesion.

The ORI most likey use different shield technology compared to the ancients / asurans..


See the episode again mate. Thor says the weapons will do the job throughout the Galaxy....Pay attention to the part about the 5th race....The ORI are more advanced than the Wraith, therefore, ....