Atlantis turning into Spooks

[knowles2]

Well I have just been reading Joe blog.

And he was talking about how he likes spooks.

Just in case you do not know what Spooks is, it a BBC show about a team of t MI5 agents who deal with terrorist and criminals and protect Britain from inside and outside threats, and even from the CIA. A very British centric show with everyone else the bad guys basically.

But the reason I bring it up is because Joe was talking about how he like how the show has killed of a major character every season since it was created. And it does not seem to harm the show in anyway what so ever . And Joe seemed to be pointing to the fact that the show keeps the viewers by knocking of these characters and bring in new ones every season and it what he liked about the show.

Do thing that Joe have decided that Atlantis should go down the same route knock of a main cast member every season and bring in someone else. Spooks done this well and kept it audience even through it a team base show.

Last season ended with several cast members being killed and the season final look a other season will begin with a lost of a other major character.

What do you think, is Joe going ot be taking Atlantis down the same road.

I personally hopes he does as spooks is one of my favorite shows.

So what people think.

[vaberella]

Well I have just been reading Joe blog.

And he was talking about how he likes spooks.

Just in case you do not know what Spooks is, it a BBC show about a team of t MI5 agents who deal with terrorist and criminals and protect Britain from inside and outside threats, and even from the CIA. A very British centric show with everyone else the bad guys basically.

But the reason I bring it up is because Joe was talking about how he like how the show has killed of a major character every season since it was created. And it does not seem to harm the show in anyway what so ever . And Joe seemed to be pointing to the fact that the show keeps the viewers by knocking of these characters and bring in new ones every season and it what he liked about the show.

Do thing that Joe have decided that Atlantis should go down the same route knock of a main cast member every season and bring in someone else. Spooks done this well and kept it audience even through it a team base show.

Last season ended with several cast members being killed and the season final look a other season will begin with a lost of a other major character.

What do you think, is Joe going ot be taking Atlantis down the same road.

I personally hopes he does as spooks is one of my favorite shows.

So what people think.

He's not the only one thinking like that. I haven't watched a lot of Lost, but it knocked out quite a few of major characters, and I'm sure the guys left are just there for flavoring. Just to keep some familiarity.

I heard rumors that half the cast of Heroes is gonna go adios, and I'm like "hope no one got attached." I was watching Hex and the girl they based the show on was killed off, and I'm like 'Can people kill off majors like that?" Apparently so. Main characters are always killed off, some come back, some don't.

Meh, I'm used to this, I live on soaps on my spare time----that's all they do. I have seen charaters decapitated go to Switzerland and come back with a new face and a new body. Or my personal faves include lots of retconning and the kids go from being 8 on Tuesday to 25 with a kid of their on by the end of Wednesday's ep.

Sure one could say, that's soaps, I'm like that's just tv. Sometimes there's that one couple or character you really can't touch for while, but pretty much the entire thing is a free for all and TPTB does what it wants, you're just along for the ride.

I don't think this show is really influencing him in the collective decision making, but it could be a point of reference as to what most shows normally do to keep a show fresh and exciting.

[Mitchell82]

He's not the only one thinking like that. I haven't watched a lot of Lost, but it knocked out quite a few of major characters, and I'm sure the guys left are just there for flavoring. Just to keep some familiarity.

I heard rumors that half the cast of Heroes is gonna go adios, and I'm like "hope no one got attached." I was watching Hex and the girl they based the show on was killed off, and I'm like 'Can people kill off majors like that?" Apparently so. Main characters are always killed off, some come back, some don't.

Meh, I'm used to this, I live on soaps on my spare time----that's all they do. I have seen charaters decapitated go to Switzerland and come back with a new face and a new body. Or my personal faves include lots of retconning and the kids go from being 8 on Tuesday to 25 with a kid of their on by the end of Wednesday's ep.

Sure one could say, that's soaps, I'm like that's just tv. Sometimes there's that one couple or character you really can't touch for while, but pretty much the entire thing is a free for all and TPTB does what it wants, you're just along for the ride.

I don't think this show is really influencing him in the collective decision making, but it could be a point of reference as to what most shows normally do to keep a show fresh and exciting.

If he follows that route the show is done for simply b/c most fans will give up. It'd be a very bad move IMO.

[duckedtapedemon]

It wouldn't be a problem if Atlantis was that kind of show, that focused more on plot than characters.

Unfortunatly, Atlantis without characters is doomed. Even if they are ruining it.

[prion]

Well I have just been reading Joe blog.

And he was talking about how he likes spooks.

Just in case you do not know what Spooks is, it a BBC show about a team of t MI5 agents who deal with terrorist and criminals and protect Britain from inside and outside threats, and even from the CIA. A very British centric show with everyone else the bad guys basically.

But the reason I bring it up is because Joe was talking about how he like how the show has killed of a major character every season since it was created. And it does not seem to harm the show in anyway what so ever . And Joe seemed to be pointing to the fact that the show keeps the viewers by knocking of these characters and bring in new ones every season and it what he liked about the show.

Do thing that Joe have decided that Atlantis should go down the same route knock of a main cast member every season and bring in someone else. Spooks done this well and kept it audience even through it a team base show.

Last season ended with several cast members being killed and the season final look a other season will begin with a lost of a other major character.

What do you think, is Joe going ot be taking Atlantis down the same road.

I personally hopes he does as spooks is one of my favorite shows.

So what people think.

well, if they decide to kill off a charcter every season, won't be much left of the show. SciFi shows have a large fan base devoted to characters, and when you bump off said characters, fans scream. I know that it's very popular on American tv nowadays to just kill characters if the actors want to leave (or you fire them) but it's boring and for me, it makes me want to watch a show less as the incentive to get interested in a character is less as well, if they're going to die, why bother watching?

[cshawzye]

It wouldn't be a problem if Atlantis was that kind of show, that focused more on plot than characters.

Unfortunatly, Atlantis without characters is doomed. Even if they are ruining it.

Yeah I think that's exactly it.

You could look at any of these popular shows that kill off characters left and right and make the argument that it doesn't harm a show to kill of "mains." Problem is, they're often completely different types of show. The problem is not in killing characters, it's in writing for the kind of show you're creating and what your audience expects and who they are.

A show like Atlantis, IMO, is about the characters and their interactions with each other just as much as it's about the adventure they're on. To kill off main characters is to effectively kill off that part of the show which is it's lifeblood. In a show like SGA if you're constantly killing off regulars and not giving your audience time to connect or care for your characteres how do you make them care about what happens to the city? Some big Wraith attack is happening? So what? A couple of regs will die and next week (episode, season, whatever) we'll have a new set of team members to go exploring through pegasus. The only suspense you could have there is which regular cast member is going to die in this epsiode. That kind of thing could get old quick. Not only that, but how do you make your audience connect to the new characters you bring on, if they know that the character is just going to end up dead in a season or a couple of episodes or something? After a while it wouldn't, at least in my opinion, be worth it to try and get into a character you figure is just going to end up off the show anyway.

I definitely understand that in telling a good story sometimes you do have to axe characters, and main ones at that. But I don't think a show like Atlantis should be doing it on a regular basis.

[Copernicus]

I'd only kill off a character on any one of three conditions.

1. The actor or actress became unavailable
2. I had a better character I wanted to introduce that could not function with the other character around
3. The character no longer served a function in the show

What I worry about is the mentality that there needs to be some hard and fast rule about the characters' mortality one way or the other. They don't all need to live, but we don't them dying at a constant rate either. Rules like that only serve to override common sense, and common sense is probably the best way to decide who lives and who dies anyway.

The primary goal has to be the improvement of the show, which should be measured by a combination of factors that include ratings and other considerations. What do I mean by other considerations? Look at Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. The show has lower ratings than would be expected by a network for a normal show, but its ratings are huge in high income households, which means that its ad buy is huge and it is possible to make money off of it anyway.

The capitalist in me says that if the powers that be focus on making a show that will bring in money for the network, they will more than likely end up with a good show simply because the same factors that bring in money tend to be the factors that improve show quality. I'm sure you can find exceptions to this idea, but it is certainly a good rule of thumb.

[kymeric]

How many ppl left because of RSF? Not alot probably. Everyone loves Ronan now. Im pretty sure this trend will continue for some time to come. They way the show is set up it is stargate ATLANTIS, and not tied to any characters (mcshep would probably be difficult but not impossible to cut)

with the existance of other identical Atlantis ships it is even possible to destory atlantis and eventually relocate to another city or interm outpost.

This show is much more a stargate Universe show than SG1 which was centric to 4 or so specific characters. And i think this will be good for the show overall.

I bet the new spinoff will go back to the main character essentials like sg1. That would make the franchise more flexible.

[J_B]

Love how they seem to like killing off characters & replacing them. Pity MGM don't feel the same way about the same old clique over at 'Bridge Studios'. That would be the signle biggest factor in rejuvanating the Stargate franchise, by putting out new people in charge of it.

It looks like they'll go the same way as the Star Trek franchise. Let Brannon & Braga run everything, then it goes stale & nobody gets interested. They've already done it 50% with SG-1 going. So I can't see how they even think about knocking off characters. If your going to boast about how great it is, then do it with one of the top players of the show.

It's easy to knock off lesser characters. So if they want some kind of respect or credit for doing so, then have the gonads to go big with their killing off. They'd never have the guts to take out O'Neill with SG-1 when RDA was still into the role. They'll never have the guts to kill off Shep or McKay permanently while they either want to continue playing the roles. Next to not be taken out is Ronon. If they did that, then it'll look like they were wrong to take out Ford in the 1st place. So while JM's still up for the role, I think he's fairly safe. The obvious candidate is Teyla. She hasn't done much other than bare flesh at any opportunity. The only thing I think that's keeping her around this long is the fact that she's a minority character. She has potential as well as every other character. So why not focus on writing the characters that you have better then that way you won't need to bring in anybody new...It's kinda simple!

However if cast changes keep it fresh, then why is SG-1 off the air now. If he seriously thinks fans like to see it continually happening to characters they've been watching for years, then bringing in brand new characters that they have to get to know right from the beginning again, then he's sadly mistaken. That's why the original SG-1 team was on the air for so long. Most people tune into shows to watch characters.

It takes time for people to warm to new characters. Atlantis doesn't have time. A few low ratings in S4, could see it being canned very early like they did with SG-1 last season. Not only killing off 1, but reducing another one's role, then bringing in other new characters. Combined with dropping back the Wraith to a background role, while rehashing old SG-1 villans as the new big bads is a very risky thing to do. Ultimately I think they will both combine to cost Atlantis it's lifespan sooner than tptb think. Then they'll be clawing out the DVD movies at £15 or whatever a pop to keep them in a job.

I have a strong feeling that tptb will find this out either in S4 or S5 max when Atlantis goes off the air & they're all out of a job. Maybe then, they'll finally see how (un)cool it is to be killed off after all!

Don't fix what ain't broke! They had the perfect cast already. They should have kept Grodin, Chuck, Ford, Bates around. They could have added Ronon in S2 as planned, put Ford out for an arc where he goes awol. Then brought him back before the end of season 2. Written better stories & scenarios for them all. Then fleshed out the Wraith better back to the scary space vampires that they were portrayed as in 'Rising'. The race that supposedly defeated the Lanteans & all their technology. Had they done that, then they'd have been onto a winner!

[Ltcolshepjumper]

SGA isn't that type of show. its centered around the characters.

[PG15]

My God people, they've killed one character. It's not like they're chopping mains left and right.

And before anyone says anything, we don't know how Weir's situation is going to turn out, and I'm not going to trust any rumors at the moment.

[sueKay]

Aren't we forgetting something?

Mr Mallozzi hasn't had too much to do with Atlantis until now...he was working on SG1.

Want to blame someone for SGA? Blame Brad Wright or N. John Smith, both of whom have had more creative involvement. Joe has devoted more time to SG1 in the past 2 years.

[expendable_crewman]

My God people, they've killed one character. It's not like they're chopping mains left and right.

And before anyone says anything, we don't know how Weir's situation is going to turn out, and I'm not going to trust any rumors at the moment.

You're right, as far as regular cast goes. On the SGA side, the character of Peter Grodin was recurring. The character of Ford became recurring (role reduced significantly) but wasn't killed off.

I guess I agree here. I'm not ready to ring any big bells.

Spoiler warning for season 3:

Spoiler:

Then again, while I can feel sorrow at the loss of Beckett, and acknowledge that I liked him tremendously, I don't feel as though the character's death impacted my interest in the show.

That's me. I'm not holding out the hope that the characters I like will play in first-run eps until I (me, myself) am tired of them, nor do I expect the series itself to run forever. Such is the way of TV shows I watch.

That means I can experience a loss like, say Grodin's (and I liked Grodin, I'll be honest, as much as anyone on the regular cast), and within the context of the show, which is through the eyes of the other characters without it pulling me out of the show.

Like your sig, PG15.

[Mister Oragahn]

Joe... you got things the wrong way.

Knocking characters is not what makes the show good.

It's interesting characters that makes a good show.

Once you learn that, then you'll be able to think about killing characters the audience likes and cares for.

[knowles2]

SGA isn't that type of show. its centered around the characters.

You obviously have not seen Spooks because the stories are often center around the character, like SGA and are in a team format to, as they work and go save Britain as a team, and yet I bring you back to the central point it have not done spooks any harm whats so ever knocking a character of every season intentional or not. That why I pointed out spooks the show underlying format team goes out to defend the world /Britain from the scum that want to harm us, except is SGA it human eating vampires in spooks its your everyday terrorist or some other plot to topple Great Britain.

The concept and team formats are the same in both shows, instead in one they travel across the universe to do their, spooks it usually more local, in and around London, making them ideal for comparing how the creatures have treated it.

In fact I even stay spooks is even more character orientated than SGA is most of the time.


So just because it does not a hysterical fan base who moans at every time they kill a character does not mean they different type of show completly. and you can still compare them.