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mymonkey15
February 28th, 2007, 03:46 AM
In sg-1 season 9 the Russians were given a 304 in order to get the gate out of there hands.

Since then area 51 has churned out the Apollo. That put the total 304's in current operation at 3 Daedalus, Odyssey and Apollo, Korolev having being destroyed.

Now given the well know de-valuing of the SGC by the American administration and the IOA shifting support and funds to Atlantis, surely the USAF would want member states of the IOA to pay for 304s and 302s to offset the massive cost of construction and operation???

SO British X304 HMS Trafalgar in Atlantis season 4?

mymonkey15
February 28th, 2007, 03:48 AM
In sg-1 season 9 the Russians were given a 304 in order to get the gate out of there hands.

Since then area 51 has churned out the Apollo. That put the total 304's in current operation at 3 Daedalus, Odyssey and Apollo, Korolev having being destroyed.

Now given the well know de-valuing of the SGC by the American administration and the IOA shifting support and funds to Atlantis, surely the USAF would want member states of the IOA to pay for 304s and 302s to offset the massive cost of construction and operation???

SO British X304 HMS Trafalgar in Atlantis season 4?

Conor
February 28th, 2007, 03:56 AM
I don't see why not and on behalf of Ireland, I'd like to order a couple of 304s and f-302s to match :D

P-90_177
February 28th, 2007, 04:00 AM
i'd love for that to happen. it's time the brits were seen in a military role in stargate and not just............grodin............who is dead................ i mean come on, we have an elite military among the best in the world (some would say even more highly trained than the U.S.) plus we have quite possibly the strongest diplomatic bonds with the U.S. and we havn't had any sort of military presence in the SGC or Atlantis.

The Great Lord Baal
February 28th, 2007, 04:06 AM
I don't see why not and on behalf of Ireland, I'd like to order a couple of 304s and f-302s to match :D

I second the motion

Death From Above
February 28th, 2007, 04:17 AM
I'd settle for a massive death-ray to be honest.

SaberBlade
February 28th, 2007, 05:16 AM
I don't see why not and on behalf of Ireland, I'd like to order a couple of 304s and f-302s to match :D

Damn right.

--

Although the SGC itself does have less of a budget, you have to take into consideration where the rest of the money would go to. Less money can mean more to build offworld sites, the IG brigde and even the other 302's and 304's.

The military wouldn't need to really sell them to other nations as money still isn't a concern, and if something bad were to happen, the SGC would inevitably have money thrown at it.

P-90_177
February 28th, 2007, 05:17 AM
it shouldn't really be case of money though it should be more of a sign of good faith.

SaberBlade
February 28th, 2007, 05:35 AM
Good faith, ha!

Russians only got the X-302/3 schematics because the DHD was needed to save Teal'c, and they were only given a BC-304 because they were "planning" on teaming up with the chinese to create their own program.

WHen it comes to military hardware like ships, good faith won't cut it.

Vala_M
February 28th, 2007, 05:44 AM
Since other countries have the plans for the ships, why aren't they building any? Heck, why didn't the Russians at least build a Prometheus class ship during the 3 years that the U.S. had the Prometheus? If every country that knows about the Stargate produced 1 ship a year, Earth would have a fleet in no time.

Vala,

squeakytoad
February 28th, 2007, 05:54 AM
I really hope that doesn't happen in the series. The United States needs the control of every ship it can get, especially with what's coming.
I'm sure the British would do well with it, but they don't have the experience and knowledge that the USAF has gained over the years and they certainly don't have the United State's interests in mind over their own (which, seriously, is selfish, but at the same time, necessary- cause America is the good guy in the Stargate world).

I also heard someone mention Britain's forces being "better trained" than the US's. That's really hard to determine there, and I doubt someone who hasn't seriously observed long term both nations' training of their troops will only be speaking out of their own personal bias (which is understandable- everyone likes to think their men in arms are the best in the world, especially if they don't have the numbers or weapons everyone else has) with slight influence from the media.
Anyway, whether or not the individual soldiers of England are better combat units than the American, it is the Americans who have the extensive training programs for the SGC, the ships, and all other Stargate-related or alien-acquired technology. Thus making them more eligible and far more qualified to operate such.

Also, in Star Wars, all the bad guys have British accents, while all the good guys have American. The government seriously takes that into consideration when making such choices. ;)

SGFerrit
February 28th, 2007, 06:01 AM
British 304? Great idea (Says me the Brit lol)

What could it be called? Going on RN names I would say something like:

Invincible
Ark Royal

Going on the new Type 45 destroyer we could have something like Dauntless or Defender

SGFerrit
February 28th, 2007, 06:09 AM
I really hope that doesn't happen in the series. The United States needs the control of every ship it can get, especially with what's coming.
I'm sure the British would do well with it, but they don't have the experience and knowledge that the USAF has gained over the years and they certainly don't have the United State's interests in mind over their own (which, seriously, is selfish, but at the same time, necessary- cause America is the good guy in the Stargate world).

I also heard someone mention Britain's forces being "better trained" than the US's. That's really hard to determine there, and I doubt someone who hasn't seriously observed long term both nations' training of their troops will only be speaking out of their own personal bias (which is understandable- everyone likes to think their men in arms are the best in the world, especially if they don't have the numbers or weapons everyone else has) with slight influence from the media.
Anyway, whether or not the individual soldiers of England are better combat units than the American, it is the Americans who have the extensive training programs for the SGC, the ships, and all other Stargate-related or alien-acquired technology. Thus making them more eligible and far more qualified to operate such.

But in truth the US should be training countries like Britain how to use the tech because like it or not eventually the whole world will know about the program and all of Earth's major governments will have to do their part in protection of Earth. Plus I doubt it would take long for the British to catch on concerning how to operate the things. The Russians ddn't take that long, I mean they were GIVEN a BC-304, they didn't even build it themselves and they still managed to make it work just fine within the space of like a week.


Also, in Star Wars, all the bad guys have British accents, while all the good guys have American. The government seriously takes that into consideration when making such choices. ;)

Obi Wan was a good guy;)

Plus Amanda Tapping is half British, so we should get a BC-304:)

Flyboy
February 28th, 2007, 06:10 AM
I really hope that doesn't happen in the series. The United States needs the control of every ship it can get, especially with what's coming.
I'm sure the British would do well with it, but they don't have the experience and knowledge that the USAF has gained over the years and they certainly don't have the United State's interests in mind over their own (which, seriously, is selfish, but at the same time, necessary- cause America is the good guy in the Stargate world).

I also heard someone mention Britain's forces being "better trained" than the US's. That's really hard to determine there, and I doubt someone who hasn't seriously observed long term both nations' training of their troops will only be speaking out of their own personal bias (which is understandable- everyone likes to think their men in arms are the best in the world, especially if they don't have the numbers or weapons everyone else has) with slight influence from the media.
Anyway, whether or not the individual soldiers of England are better combat units than the American, it is the Americans who have the extensive training programs for the SGC, the ships, and all other Stargate-related or alien-acquired technology. Thus making them more eligible and far more qualified to operate such.

Also, in Star Wars, all the bad guys have British accents, while all the good guys have American. The government seriously takes that into consideration when making such choices. ;)
True, but in a direct competition between Britain's premier special forces unit; The SAS, and Americas; Delta Force, the SAS won hands down.

P-90_177
February 28th, 2007, 06:16 AM
Yep...........Brits are great!!!!!!!!! We're a scrappy bunch. and as for the star wars thing..........Course...that's cos we own you!!!!! Lol.

squeakytoad
February 28th, 2007, 06:46 AM
But in truth the US should be training countries like Britain how to use the tech because like it or not eventually the whole world will know about the program and all of Earth's major governments will have to do their part in protection of Earth.

Why though?
This is one thing I hate about modern politics. Every nation thinks they somehow deserve power. This whole "equal balance of power" thing only aids the pathetic and weakens the strong.
Bah, I get irritated when I think of all the problems America's facing that could've been solved had it not done so many things in the past to keep the "balance of power" and UN happy.




Plus Amanda Tapping is half British, so we should get a BC-304:)

I don't think you'll find a single American who isn't half, third, or quarter something or other.


Yep...........Brits are great!!!!!!!!! We're a scrappy bunch. and as for the star wars thing..........Course...that's cos we own you!!!!! Lol.

I seem to remember the movies ending with the British emperor being thrown off the edge by a big American guy in a snazzy suit. ;)


True, but in a direct competition between Britain's premier special forces unit; The SAS, and Americas; Delta Force, the SAS won hands down.

Has this competition happened yet? I'd like to watch.
Of course, I wouldn't doubt it. There's a massive list of things the British are better at than the Americans.

fallenexile452
February 28th, 2007, 06:48 AM
In sg-1 season 9 the Russians were given a 304 in order to get the gate out of there hands.

Since then area 51 has churned out the Apollo. That put the total 304's in current operation at 3 Daedalus, Odyssey and Apollo, Korolev having being destroyed.

Now given the well know de-valuing of the SGC by the American administration and the IOA shifting support and funds to Atlantis, surely the USAF would want member states of the IOA to pay for 304s and 302s to offset the massive cost of construction and operation???

SO British X304 HMS Trafalgar in Atlantis season 4?

Yes to a British 304 but a big no to calling it the Trafalgar, surely we can do better.

P-90_177
February 28th, 2007, 06:50 AM
why are there 2 of these threads?

P-90_177
February 28th, 2007, 06:55 AM
^damn straight. :)

The Ori
February 28th, 2007, 07:01 AM
Well if the British ade one it would be torn apart by just a zat gun hahahahaha

Skydiver
February 28th, 2007, 07:01 AM
merged with the note that folks can have ONE thread to discuss a topic, not several exactly the same scattered in different folders

Elite Anubis Guard
February 28th, 2007, 07:12 AM
If anything, a Brit 304 should be called the Thunder Child! And as much as I'd love to see us have one, really, in all fairness, it'd just get blown to hell. You know what TPTB think of any other nation's and captured alien ships :P

However, I sure would love an SAS team.

SGFerrit
February 28th, 2007, 07:21 AM
Why though?
This is one thing I hate about modern politics. Every nation thinks they somehow deserve power. This whole "equal balance of power" thing only aids the pathetic and weakens the strong.
Bah, I get irritated when I think of all the problems America's facing that could've been solved had it not done so many things in the past to keep the "balance of power" and UN happy.

The US won't be the world's greatest super power much longer though, at all. They probably have about ten years left. They won't be able to just brush everyone else asided and go forward themselves. I would have thought America would want to keep their closest allies close to them in order to not become isolated. No better way of doing that then to share what they have found openly.

And do you ever want u to become the Fifth race, because I doubt we will unless we are a united Earth. The Asgrad are much more likely to share their more advanced tech with us (as are other races) if we prove we can set aside our own differences and unite in peace.

You make it sound as if the US didn't have to work with anyone, but without it's many allies believe me it wouldn't be as lucky as it is. The rest of the world does deserve to have this technology.


I don't think you'll find a single American who isn't half, third, or quarter something or other.

She's Canadian/English (It was only a joke mind:))


I seem to remember the movies ending with the British emperor being thrown off the edge by a big American guy in a snazzy suit. ;)

The big guy in the suit was British, just the voice was American:)

Look here (http://imdb.com/name/nm0001190/)


Has this competition happened yet? I'd like to watch.
Of course, I wouldn't doubt it. There's a massive list of things the British are better at than the Americans.

It does of course work both ways. That is why people should work together, to get the best of both.

knowles2
February 28th, 2007, 07:39 AM
British army are the better than americans and most probably the best in the world, cannot remember who it was but even a american general as admitted that the british are better trained. And the fact we tend to come out on top in war games means we must be better.

But that not what we here to talk about.


As for us getting a x-304.BC 304 or what ever they are call them, it about time t, it would be only thing which we would of wanted in trade for allowing them access to Merlin Cavern.

And we should see SAS solders going through the gate it be great.

Through all foriegns are evil to americans and TPTB.

Through it be great to see some british solders around rescueing sheppered and co butts.

P-90_177
February 28th, 2007, 07:42 AM
^ i agree.

IcyNeko
February 28th, 2007, 07:52 AM
Since other countries have the plans for the ships, why aren't they building any? Heck, why didn't the Russians at least build a Prometheus class ship during the 3 years that the U.S. had the Prometheus? If every country that knows about the Stargate produced 1 ship a year, Earth would have a fleet in no time.

Vala,

My guess would be because of the PROHIBITIVELY huge costs. Most nations can't churn out the cash to buy the materials needed to build a 304.

SaberBlade
February 28th, 2007, 08:04 AM
My guess would be because of the PROHIBITIVELY huge costs. Most nations can't churn out the cash to buy the materials needed to build a 304.

and lets not forget, no nations have access to the materials needed to build a 304. You can't exactly get your hands on Naquadah, Trinium plus the Asgard components needed to build them.

P-90_177
February 28th, 2007, 08:05 AM
nope. in fact giving the russians plans for the f-302's and 304's was a good deal considering. they got majorly screwed over with that.

Splitsecond
February 28th, 2007, 08:37 AM
If Britian had a 304 they would some how use it to wipe out most of the Ori fleet before it gets blown up due to Oneill getting over excited and accidentally hitting the self-destruct button.

I'm sure there is at least one team of SAS on Atlantis, we don't see them because they haven't shown the Atlantis pub yet.

Elite Anubis Guard
February 28th, 2007, 08:46 AM
We had an SAS team in Atlantis: Halycon which I'm thankful of.

knowles2
February 28th, 2007, 09:58 AM
We had an SAS team in Atlantis: Halycon which I'm thankful of.

which episode was he in.

Mr Prophet
February 28th, 2007, 10:06 AM
I seem to remember the movies ending with the British emperor being thrown off the edge by a big American guy in a snazzy suit. ;)

His voice may have been American, but the bloke in the suit was from Bristol. That's Bristol in England, by the by.

P-90_177
February 28th, 2007, 10:12 AM
^yep. very true.

jenks
February 28th, 2007, 10:17 AM
I'd like to see a British 304, but to be honest I really doubt that would happen, I'd settle for an SAS team instead.

ussrelativity
February 28th, 2007, 10:21 AM
I'd like to see who would command a 304 from another nation.

Elite Anubis Guard
February 28th, 2007, 11:07 AM
which episode was he in.

It's a Stargate Atlantis novel, actually.

IcyNeko
February 28th, 2007, 02:22 PM
I'd like to see who would command a 304 from another nation.

I'm just waiting for someone to say the wrong thing and suddenly have the 304 fleet turn on itself.

Ripple in Space
February 28th, 2007, 03:48 PM
British army are the better than americans and most probably the best in the world, cannot remember who it was but even a american general as admitted that the british are better trained. And the fact we tend to come out on top in war games means we must be better.


I agree that the British Special Forces (or whoever their top notch guys are) are far better trained than the US Army, but the Army Soldiers aren't our best trained military units. As far as ground combat, I think America's best trained branch (overall) is the Marine Corps. Then we have specialized units within other branches, like the Army Rangers, Navy Seals, Delta Force, Green Berets, etc..

From what I understand the Brit's best-of-the-best are #3, Israel>US>Brits. I think man-for-man the Israeli Military is by far the best trained. W/ America & Great Britain following.

As far as a British 304, well I posted this in another thread.

Russia has Titanium, right? I think they do, so they could build the hull out of a Titanium-Alloy. And sacrifice a F-302 bay and/or a storage room and/or some living quarters and power it with a nuclear reactor.

This could be applicable to England too. If they could get an Asgard Shield & Hyperspace engine then they could at least explore. And I'm sure the Brits could muster some weapon that could take down an Al'kesh.

jenks
February 28th, 2007, 04:19 PM
The British SAS are renowned around the world as the most elite fighting force on Earth, I imagine the only troops the US has who are close are Delta force who are allegedy trained or have been trained by the SAS, not sure howmuch truth there is in that though...

Ripple in Space
February 28th, 2007, 04:41 PM
The British SAS are renowned around the world as the most elite fighting force on Earth, I imagine the only troops the US has who are close are Delta force who are allegedy trained or have been trained by the SAS, not sure howmuch truth there is in that though...

Dick Cheney would demolish them, all of them. Just give him a Dominican Cigar (no Cubans for us) and a rifle.

FlightPod
February 28th, 2007, 05:02 PM
As a Brit i've always hoped maybe someday we would get a ship or two in stargate cannon. Though if they do i hope its a navy operation and not an air force one, my belief is that such ships warrant naval not air force control, the navy after all is about ships and crews, and at least in days of old a big guns too.

RepliHawk
February 28th, 2007, 05:43 PM
That would be cool if they get their own ship

squeakytoad
February 28th, 2007, 05:53 PM
The US won't be the world's greatest super power much longer though, at all. They probably have about ten years left. They won't be able to just brush everyone else asided and go forward themselves. I would have thought America would want to keep their closest allies close to them in order to not become isolated. No better way of doing that then to share what they have found openly.

Um....



And do you ever want u to become the Fifth race, because I doubt we will unless we are a united Earth. The Asgrad are much more likely to share their more advanced tech with us (as are other races) if we prove we can set aside our own differences and unite in peace.

You do realize this show is just fiction... right?


You make it sound as if the US didn't have to work with anyone, but without it's many allies believe me it wouldn't be as lucky as it is. The rest of the world does deserve to have this technology.

In reality, the United State's ties with other nations only make it weaker. Would it spend less time in foreign affairs and remove itself from UN, it would become a ton more powerful.
All UN and America's allies do, for the most part, is weigh it down, by putting restrictions on US defenses, weapons technology, and always requiring the US's help, and then getting all their war debts canceled (which, if the US had called in so many countless times, most of Asia and Europe would be in economic ruin while the United States thrived without debt- of course, this would hurt trade, but the US could always pay to build up the countries it needs for supplies).

In Stargate, the US needs the rest of the world even less, especially if they hoarded all the goods to themselves. No army in the world could stand up to several X-304s. You give them their own, and if they decide they're unhappy with the current agreement, they fight back, the world breaks out into war, and we have no chance of defending ourselves.


And I find it funny that just about everyone here supporting the British getting one and saying the British are the "top soldiers in the world" are British. Little bias don't you think?

Sicktem
February 28th, 2007, 06:40 PM
In Stargate, the US needs the rest of the world even less, especially if they hoarded all the goods to themselves. No army in the world could stand up to several X-304s. You give them their own, and if they decide they're unhappy with the current agreement, they fight back, the world breaks out into war, and we have no chance of defending ourselves.

Yes because the U.S. needs to keep their 304s on Earth just keeping the peace instead of using them out there in the universe to defend against hostile threats. Also, if the other governments were to band together against the U.S. they may not be able to defeat the 304s and would be at a serious disadvantages against 302s, but they could do serious damage to this country and all that would remain is those 304s. However, I would remind you that the international community has control over the Ancient Outpost and so if they strike first they can reach it before the U.S. and take out those 304s with ease. If you make them feel like you're going to lord your technology over them once there are no more enemies out there and you will not honor your agreements to share technology they can very easily get their first. The only reason that didn't happen in the Road Not Taken (which shows you how much better the world is under your idea that having allies is worse for fighting alien threats - Even if they found Atlantis they wouldn't have the resources to run it and the Stargate program at the same time which means no ZPMs and eventual the destruction of Earth) is because the U.S. never shared the outpost to begin with so they were able to get the chair out of there before others reached it. Also, in that reality the Asgard never gave Earth advanced technology, so they weren't around to make sure Earth didn't abuse it. If, however, the U.S. started lording it over other countries I'd be inclined to think that they would step in. Certainly Sg-1 would use their first opportunity to contact them if something like that happened.

Anyway, the American government has never been the hero of Sg-1. The members of Sg-1 are the heroes and the government is constantly getting in their way and trying to screw things up for them with their small minded thinking. They have often learned from their mistakes (i.e. overhauling the N.I.D.) and fortunately had a few good people in charge, (the president has always been their friend, but he's not the whole government) but if it wasn't for Sg-1 fixing their mistakes all the time they would be ruined. One of their latest bits of genius was to claim that their 303 and 304 technology was good enough to defend Earth, so they had no reason to waste money on having the SGC run at full capacity. Meanwhile, the recent attempt to by Jaffa to attack Earth shows that even if the Ori didn't appear a lot of damage could be done to Earth by the pre-existing Milky Way technology.

squeakytoad
February 28th, 2007, 07:36 PM
But as long as a band with the name SG1 exists, Earth will be safe. :P
So we don't really need to give the British an X304.

Anonmatel
March 1st, 2007, 03:24 AM
I don't really think it should be about 'what countries have a 304'

The IOA need to step in and take control of the whole situation. All the troops/scientists need to be transfered to working for the IOA and the ships commanded by IOA officers.
Member countries pay their dues and get their rewards. Patents from alien tech. Free will to roam and mine and colonise uninhabited planets in the Gateworld system.
A well run UN of the stars solely dedicated to the defence of the entire planet.... It sounds corny but thats the way it should be run.

Death From Above
March 1st, 2007, 03:55 AM
In sg-1 season 9 the Russians were given a 304 in order to get the gate out of there hands.

Since then area 51 has churned out the Apollo. That put the total 304's in current operation at 3 Daedalus, Odyssey and Apollo, Korolev having being destroyed.

Now given the well know de-valuing of the SGC by the American administration and the IOA shifting support and funds to Atlantis, surely the USAF would want member states of the IOA to pay for 304s and 302s to offset the massive cost of construction and operation???

SO British X304 HMS Trafalgar in Atlantis season 4?

There is already a HMS Trafalgar, she is a 'Trafalgar' class nuclear attack submarine. She might have been mothballed, but she is still on the books. Britain can barely afford Trident, so I think an interstellar battleship is probably beyond our means.

Thunderbird 2
March 1st, 2007, 04:15 AM
I had an idea of a UK X304 a while ago, but I am keeping the details to myself, in case I ever get the chance to write the story and perhaps pitch it to the Novel publishers in the future.

The Idea of the UK having a ship came to me simplty because China, France, the UK and Russia are all big players in the Stargate Universe, established in SG1 and hinted at in Atlantis once or twice. Having said that, the international community aspect of Atlantis seems to have fallen by the wayside, so I am going to wait to see if and what develops on that front.

fallenexile452
March 1st, 2007, 04:47 AM
As a Brit i've always hoped maybe someday we would get a ship or two in stargate cannon. Though if they do i hope its a navy operation and not an air force one, my belief is that such ships warrant naval not air force control, the navy after all is about ships and crews, and at least in days of old a big guns too.

All three services should be aboard as they all can aid with their various specialties. Army for the ground forces and ship security, RAF for 302 pilots and the navy to control ship proper. everyone gets a piece of the action.

Whitster
March 1st, 2007, 04:47 AM
There is already a HMS Trafalgar, she is a 'Trafalgar' class nuclear attack submarine. She might have been mothballed, but she is still on the books. Britain can barely afford Trident, so I think an interstellar battleship is probably beyond our means.

Then we build a new Botany Bay,
solution to prison overcrowding, and battleship.

batfinks
March 1st, 2007, 04:51 AM
a British 304 would be great for plantary defence purposes but for open engagements a big no no !

seeing sas teams in Atlantis/SG1 would be damn nice but why have 2nd best ?

the SBS is far better trained then the SAS and thats a FULLSTOP !
and unlike the SAS the SBS has full protection from the media !

and world ranking in order of armed forces is British forces by far better than all other this is a fact and no bias involved even thou i was in the army for over 9yrs

as for special forces it goes (1st)SBS/SAS (2nd)Mosatt however its spelt(Israeli) then (3rd)a host of american special forces this is fact google it, janes fighting men or whatever its called keeps stock on all rankings both in material and units.
and btw the US military ranks special forces by what that force is trained to do..... i guess thats why both the US and rest of the world see the entire British Armed Forces as a special armed forces army and a further note (we british) help in training both Israeli and US special forces

Sicktem
March 1st, 2007, 04:54 AM
I don't really think it should be about 'what countries have a 304'

The IOA need to step in and take control of the whole situation. All the troops/scientists need to be transfered to working for the IOA and the ships commanded by IOA officers.
Member countries pay their dues and get their rewards. Patents from alien tech. Free will to roam and mine and colonise uninhabited planets in the Gateworld system.
A well run UN of the stars solely dedicated to the defence of the entire planet.... It sounds corny but thats the way it should be run.

Ideally that should happen, but the U.S. won't go for it at the moment (that's decades away, when they're no longer at war with anyone). Other nations have already been complaining that the U.S. isn't giving them the kind of access they want and that they aren't living up to their promise to share technology. The U.S. likes that it is in control of whatever technology that is filtered through the Stargate and although they are willing to join with an international community for the betterment of the planet, (Earth technology would not have been completely useless in the case of a worldwide Goa'uld invasion) there is a limit to how far they will go. I'm very much hoping to see fleet of Earth ships one day, so I'm hoping that The Road Not Taken will serve as a lesson through Carter's retelling of it. But, most likely the writers have been limiting what the U.S. will give out to other nations as otherwise Earth would have just under 15 304s around now and that would too unbalance what they've worked for with the reset show in the season 9 priemere.

P-90_177
March 1st, 2007, 04:58 AM
There is already a HMS Trafalgar, she is a 'Trafalgar' class nuclear attack submarine. She might have been mothballed, but she is still on the books. Britain can barely afford Trident, so I think an interstellar battleship is probably beyond our means.

maybe we can't afford trident because we've already bought a 304 or two. :D

FlightPod
March 1st, 2007, 06:51 AM
Hopefully and assuming we get a 304 for Britain it should be named i think HMS Hood, or maybe one of the old battleship names ie King George V, Nelson, Warspite etc

jenks
March 1st, 2007, 07:01 AM
In reality, the United State's ties with other nations only make it weaker. Would it spend less time in foreign affairs and remove itself from UN, it would become a ton more powerful.


It's not so much about the power, it's what you do with it. If the US was left to it's own devices, Iraq would probably be one in a long line of disasters. The UN ensures (if it is listened to) that only just wars are fought, unfortunatly most major powes only listen to the UN when it suits them.

Kingomon
March 1st, 2007, 07:05 AM
I'm just waiting for someone to say the wrong thing and suddenly have the 304 fleet turn on itself.
That is what would worry me. especally when the gate goes public because every country would want a ship.

P-90_177
March 1st, 2007, 07:09 AM
not giving the ships would cause the same conflict. It would be like the road not taken. There'd be chaos if the world wasn't united and the U.S. would use their 304s to maintain order. Least they could do is give a 304 to a nation which they know to be an ally.

X04Shivaji
March 1st, 2007, 07:59 AM
Hmm I dont think Britian should get one i think India and China should the two more powerful countries even in terms of military would wipe the floor with Britian not just sayin cos the hell of it cos its truw Britian control's an army of 300,000 200,000 reserves India and China has million strong army and India has the 4th Largest air force one of the most advanced navys china has the largest army in the world, a decent air force (they catchin up) and thier navy as well its getting better all the time. in terms of money and resources no one can touch India or China even the states (Out Sourcing) and the lack of trivium and asgard tech just requires tweeking

X04Shivaji
March 1st, 2007, 08:02 AM
If they do give britian one they should call it HMS Spitfire! or Hurricane

ussrelativity
March 1st, 2007, 08:12 AM
More advanced manufacturing will be needed to complete more 304s as well as their respective 302 complements.

P-90_177
March 1st, 2007, 08:41 AM
Hmm I dont think Britian should get one i think India and China should the two more powerful countries even in terms of military would wipe the floor with Britian not just sayin cos the hell of it cos its truw Britian control's an army of 300,000 200,000 reserves India and China has million strong army and India has the 4th Largest air force one of the most advanced navys china has the largest army in the world, a decent air force (they catchin up) and thier navy as well its getting better all the time. in terms of money and resources no one can touch India or China even the states (Out Sourcing) and the lack of trivium and asgard tech just requires tweeking

Tehy'd never give oe to a communist country and india doesn't even know about the stargate program.

kefke20
March 1st, 2007, 08:55 AM
From what I understand the Brit's best-of-the-best are #3, Israel>US>Brits. I think man-for-man the Israeli Military is by far the best trained. W/ America & Great Britain following.



From what I understand from the best traind army`s are for the basic solders

israel
the netherlands
the brits
usa

kefke20
March 1st, 2007, 09:05 AM
but what i miss in the stargate univers is the involvemet of the dutch
hir in the rael world if ther is troble the dutch are alwas rady to send monney medecal and milatri aide

perhaps in the stargate univers my people are being traint for space dutie
it will not be the firs time that we are beaing sponsert by the US to set up force to asist theam.

nemisis
March 1st, 2007, 11:07 AM
Plus Amanda Tapping is half British, so we should get a BC-304:)


lol it say's she comes in a ship maybe a british ship (HMS . Victory the most famous of all ships ;) )
ow and about the size of the army, size dont matter its how you use it lol ;).And lets face it we have no idea how many ship sgc 4 maybe 5 they just might not mention them ;) lol


P.S. BRITISH and the U.s.a are the best in the world to hard to tell the diffrences! lol

:sam:

kefke20
March 1st, 2007, 11:35 AM
Hmm I dont think Britian should get one i think India and China should the two more powerful countries even in terms of military would wipe the floor with Britian not just sayin cos the hell of it cos its truw Britian control's an army of 300,000 200,000 reserves India and China has million strong army and India has the 4th Largest air force one of the most advanced navys china has the largest army in the world, a decent air force (they catchin up) and thier navy as well its getting better all the time. in terms of money and resources no one can touch India or China even the states (Out Sourcing) and the lack of trivium and asgard tech just requires tweeking

its not in allways in the numbers but in the qwalty of your man and material
if britian vs inda ore china the kill ratio will like 30 to 1 for the brits

butt wat you sed thay are catsing up very fast
i only wonder wou long thay can keep up with out runing out of monney
a army up keep with high numbers of man and great qwalty is a inposeble
eavan the US can not do thade

bniblett
March 1st, 2007, 11:37 AM
truth be told, things are much better off with one country in control, therefor you don't have stupid bickering between countries.

bniblett
March 1st, 2007, 11:46 AM
From what I understand from the best traind army`s are for the basic solders

israel
the netherlands
the brits
usa

truthfully, id say the countries that are at conflict the most probably have the best soldiers.

israel, brits, usa, South Korea (awesome soldiers i hear)

being from canada, our military gets a laugh a bit too often, but our soldiers are well trained. Afghanistan is our first real combat mission in about 40-50 years

bus honestly, most special forces are trained "about" the same.

Its all about the toys. American planes, missles, choppers, communications is by far the best.

kefke20
March 1st, 2007, 11:47 AM
truth be told, things are much better off with one country in control, therefor you don't have stupid bickering between countries.

but you can not do that allon and the ather counties, powes and allis whon`t stand for it. the best solosin is to place stargate comand homeworld secerety and the starnavy onder UN banner

Sicktem
March 1st, 2007, 11:52 AM
truth be told, things are much better off with one country in control, therefor you don't have stupid bickering between countries.


And they're not bickering now? China didn't just make a play for power because they feel that they're being left out? Do you think that would be the last we'd hear from them if Sg-1 wasn't ending? By sharing technology they can bicker all they want, but they'd have 4-5 ships a year with which to defend Earth as opposed to the 3 that they're sharing between two galaxies right now. Personally I think the benefits outweight some pesky arguments over how to use the fleet. I also would be interested to see those arguments as it helps to flesh out the plot and show that they're learning that they have to deal with each other if they really want to be considered a power out there in the universe. You can't bury your head in the sand forever and ignore the rest of the world, just because a few people will be arguing at a table somewhere while the people on the field get the additional help they need.

jenks
March 1st, 2007, 12:00 PM
truth be told, things are much better off with one country in control, therefor you don't have stupid bickering between countries.

But the 'bickering' ensures that what is done is done in the interests of the world, and not just one country.

kefke20
March 1st, 2007, 12:04 PM
Its all about the toys. American planes, missles, choppers, communications is by far the best.

not alwas
like the aberham tanks of the usa great machiens but thay got a vital flau, like most mobile things of amerika thay got a thast for gasoline
if i was in conflict with the usa i would ignor the tanks and go for the hughs fleet of gas trucks thad ride after thame.

thats wy the dutch army got germans tanks, rpc an artilery.
butt the the air force is amerikan
and the navy is home made

its all albout how can deliver the best qwalty

and sorry if start to domenate tis thread

Davidtourniquet
March 1st, 2007, 12:12 PM
Yes materials are expensive, but the prices are in US$ and at the moment the US$ is very weak against the pound 1.96 today.
The SBS are better than the SAS who are tons better than the Delta Force. In terms of normal soldiery, just look at the amount of accidental killings (aka friendly fire), more American soldiers have died from friendly fire (by percentage) than British ones. The trouble with american soldiers is they are too gunho (that was taken from, a friend of mine serving in iraq).
Britain should get it's own 304 or even better a new class. Lets face it they would probably make better use of the ship than anyone else.
In terms of engineering all I have to say about British are 2 designs: The Harrier Jumpjet and Concorde.

nemisis
March 1st, 2007, 01:08 PM
Yes materials are expensive, but the prices are in US$ and at the moment the US$ is very weak against the pound 1.96 today.
The SBS are better than the SAS who are tons better than the Delta Force. In terms of normal soldiery, just look at the amount of accidental killings (aka friendly fire), more American soldiers have died from friendly fire (by percentage) than British ones. The trouble with american soldiers is they are too gunho (that was taken from, a friend of mine serving in iraq).
Britain should get it's own 304 or even better a new class. Lets face it they would probably make better use of the ship than anyone else.
In terms of engineering all I have to say about British are 2 designs: The Harrier Jumpjet and Concorde.


lol britian could get 1 now half price sort of lol

and america ows us one we gave them the plans to the jetengine for planes after world war 2 so.. after the war with the guold they need to return the favour.

P-90_177
March 1st, 2007, 01:12 PM
very true.

X04Shivaji
March 1st, 2007, 02:29 PM
very true.
okie they dont ahve to give india or china a 303 but they could at least get thier help i mean when it comes to tech america is like 4th 5th and in terms of speed of production dont get started on the subject its a no brainer, and im terms of quality per solider india and china's soliders rival the british and american with ease the last two war games bettwen india and america india has won with ease (check Jane Defence Weekly) ermm India has got planes that Rival the F-22 Raptor (SuMKI 30) the Brahmos Missile http://www.brahmos.com/ supersonic speed and can carry a nuke payload which is better than anything states got at the moment then thier theres the navy http://indiannavy.nic.in/destroyers.htm they got really good ships obviously not Nimitz Class but they get the job done and keep China and Pakistan @ bay ;d

jenks
March 1st, 2007, 02:38 PM
Sorry mate, but India isn't a match for Britain or the US in any aspect of their military. India might rival the west at some point, but it's not now.

kefke20
March 1st, 2007, 03:35 PM
okie they dont ahve to give india or china a 303 but they could at least get thier help i mean when it comes to tech america is like 4th 5th and in terms of speed of production dont get started on the subject its a no brainer, and im terms of quality per solider india and china's soliders rival the british and american with ease the last two war games bettwen india and america india has won with ease (check Jane Defence Weekly) ermm India has got planes that Rival the F-22 Raptor (SuMKI 30) the Brahmos Missile http://www.brahmos.com/ supersonic speed and can carry a nuke payload which is better than anything states got at the moment then thier theres the navy http://indiannavy.nic.in/destroyers.htm they got really good ships obviously not Nimitz Class but they get the job done and keep China and Pakistan @ bay ;d

sorry pall
the indian navy is noting more than 2cond handid junk
and i lookt it up the SuMKI 30 is only superior to F15 and F18

squeakytoad
March 1st, 2007, 07:05 PM
lmao. India? A world power? Wow. Trying to say England is debatable, saying France is just absurd, but India? lol

An-Alteran
March 1st, 2007, 08:58 PM
First and foremost:

It is not an X-304, X means experimental! It isn't experimental!

It is a DSC-304 guys, as seen on the Odyssey.

Prometheus was the prototype, Daedalus is the production model.

DSC-304.

Major Tyler
March 1st, 2007, 09:06 PM
I've got an idea...instead of waiting for hand-outs from the Americans, why doesn't the UK build their own ship?

garhkal
March 1st, 2007, 09:56 PM
You make it sound as if the US didn't have to work with anyone, but without it's many allies believe me it wouldn't be as lucky as it is. The rest of the world does deserve to have this technology..

So far, we have seen the russians get us into more hot water than they are worth as 'allies' (water gate, tomb and then that russian that was taken over by anubis). China has flat out tried to wrestle control of the gate with the russians as they "patsy", as to the french and british, we have yet to see anything imo meaningful from them to make them 'deserving' of this tech..


The IOA need to step in and take control of the whole situation. All the troops/scientists need to be transfered to working for the IOA and the ships commanded by IOA officers.

Heck no.. IMO the IOA has been nothing but a hinderance and a major thorn in the side of the SGC. I have YET to see them do anyting benefitial for the SGC team.


truth be told, things are much better off with one country in control, therefor you don't have stupid bickering between countries.

Agreed.


but you can not do that allon and the ather counties, powes and allis whon`t stand for it. the best solosin is to place stargate comand homeworld secerety and the starnavy onder UN banner

We did it for over 6 years before there was even a 'hinting' of an IOA... so how do you say we can't do it alone?

kefke20
March 2nd, 2007, 01:06 AM
So far, we have seen the russians get us into more hot water than they are worth as 'allies' (water gate, tomb and then that russian that was taken over by anubis). China has flat out tried to wrestle control of the gate with the russians as they "patsy", as to the french and british, we have yet to see anything imo meaningful from them to make them 'deserving' of this tech..?

thay dont get the thance the sgc is total amarican



Heck no.. IMO the IOA has been nothing but a hinderance and a major thorn in the side of the SGC. I have YET to see them do anyting benefitial for the SGC team.?

thay pay the bill`s






We did it for over 6 years before there was even a 'hinting' of an IOA... so how do you say we can't do it alone?

do you know hou mutch a war cost. come on USAs state daed is not fore noting the highist thad it ever been.
if running sgc and building a fleet is for free. sorry but you must be a idioot.

X04Shivaji
March 2nd, 2007, 01:17 AM
sorry pall
the indian navy is noting more than 2cond handid junk
and i lookt it up the SuMKI 30 is only superior to F15 and F18

thats why in the last war game india beat states with Mig's and Kestrals? and thats why all the american manufactuing jobs are going to india and china and that why the only place in the world where you can dismantle ships safely is in india and that why all the 9/11 waste was taken to india for recycling and finally india's military spending is wat 2.3bn a year compared to states and its all ready on americas heel's the only advantage the states have over india and any one else is stealth dont even talk about quality omg...i even said that the Indian Navy wasnt Nimitz Class but not even the Britsh could repel a full scale attack from India just 2 good and if u dont believe me my uncle is the asian highest ranking navy officer and has been in the navy for was last 15 years give or take a year! the SuMKI came out time back and is still being improved its a russian body with indian tech.

The single greatest contibutor the world is India, it doesnt matter which subject you do it has it origins in india so and the funniest part is India is almost a world power and its got something stoopid like 80% corruption i cant imagine how far it could go with 70% or even 60% lmao!...

Sicktem
March 2nd, 2007, 01:32 AM
I've got an idea...instead of waiting for hand-outs from the Americans, why doesn't the UK build their own ship?

Two reason. First, it took billions of dollars in research for the American government to come up with ship technology and they had Goa'uld ships to study. Since the American government seems to be keeping their technology to themselves at the moment, despite previous agreements, it isn't too likely that they have America's detailed ship building plans. In that case they would need to start from scratch with whatever they can get through spying. Second, building ships requires naquadah which means the American government either needs to give them some or they need to have a way to get off world so that they can get it on their own. Everything from the power source of 304s which allows their weapons, engines, and overall systems to work to a 302 and its naquadah warheads, requires them to depend on the American government if they want to build ships. They had a brief chance of bypassing them when the Russians had their own ship, but most likely they would've just used it to get their own naquadah so they could build arm a fleet of 302s.

kefke20
March 2nd, 2007, 02:56 AM
thats why in the last war game india beat states with Mig's and Kestrals? !...
wow i dident know thad



and thats why all the american manufactuing jobs are going to india and china and that why the only place in the world where you can dismantle ships safely is in india and that why all the 9/11 waste was taken to india for recycling and finally india's military spending is wat 2.3bn a year compared to states !...

the reason wy allthe jobs go to india and china is the very very low labor cost and no reagart to the live of the man. we send last yaer a cago ship what was in ilegal bisnus to be "scafely" dismantelt in india, now to make a long story short thay are still counting the daed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




and its all ready on americas heel's the only advantage the states have over india and any one else is stealth dont even talk about quality omg...i even said that the Indian Navy wasnt Nimitz Class but not even the Britsh could repel a full scale attack from India just 2 good !...

thay are more countrys hoe got stealth tech and evan beter quality than the US. and quality is now the day fare more importent than quantaty.

i bet that ower own De Zeven Provinciën class frigate`s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Zeven_Provinci%C3%ABn_class_frigate) will wipe the floor with the indian navy.




and if u dont believe me my uncle is the asian highest ranking navy officer and has been in the navy for was last 15 years give or take a year! !...

only 15 yaers!! in the westren world to get thad kind of posision yuo will be in the navy for 30 to 40 yaers



the SuMKI came out time back and is still being improved its a russian body with indian tech.!...

thad maby so but thay will be totaly owd by the new JSF. and than the indian engeineers will be back to sqwer 1



The single greatest contibutor the world is India, it doesnt matter which subject you do it has it origins in india so and the funniest part is India is almost a world power and its got something stoopid like 80% corruption i cant imagine how far it could go with 70% or even 60% lmao!...

but lukey fore the westren world it is not. it will be graet for the indians but not for us

squeakytoad
March 2nd, 2007, 03:03 AM
Two reason. First, it took billions of dollars in research for the American government to come up with ship technology and they had Goa'uld ships to study. Since the American government seems to be keeping their technology to themselves at the moment, despite previous agreements, it isn't too likely that they have America's detailed ship building plans. In that case they would need to start from scratch with whatever they can get through spying. Second, building ships requires naquadah which means the American government either needs to give them some or they need to have a way to get off world so that they can get it on their own. Everything from the power source of 304s which allows their weapons, engines, and overall systems to work to a 302 and its naquadah warheads, requires them to depend on the American government if they want to build ships. They had a brief chance of bypassing them when the Russians had their own ship, but most likely they would've just used it to get their own naquadah so they could build arm a fleet of 302s.

Build their own Stargate.
All they have to do is get an exiled Ancient to fall for one of their scientists and build one in their attic out of toaster ovens and a few random eBay-ordered items.

This whole "America found it all, now they have to share" tune is getting old. Can you imagine, back in the years of exploration, what people would've thought if Portugal had start whining to Spain that it deserved to have all the spoils discovered in the New World given to them just cause they didn't get there first? Or if France started attacking Italy cause it wouldn't share any of the wealth and wonders of the Orient?

I'm positive that had the British, Russians, Chinese, or French gotten their hands on the Stargate program, they'd be a hundred times less cooperative than the United States has been in the series.

ARMS
March 2nd, 2007, 03:22 AM
Build their own Stargate.
All they have to do is get an exiled Ancient to fall for one of their scientists and build one in their attic out of toaster ovens and a few random eBay-ordered items.

This whole "America found it all, now they have to share" tune is getting old. Can you imagine, back in the years of exploration, what people would've thought if Portugal had start whining to Spain that it deserved to have all the spoils discovered in the New World given to them just cause they didn't get there first? Or if France started attacking Italy cause it wouldn't share any of the wealth and wonders of the Orient?

I'm positive that had the British, Russians, Chinese, or French gotten their hands on the Stargate program, they'd be a hundred times less cooperative than the United States has been in the series.
All true, but the U.S.A in reality is not that co-operative!

Whitster
March 2nd, 2007, 03:31 AM
Two reason. First, it took billions of dollars in research for the American government to come up with ship technology and they had Goa'uld ships to study. Since the American government seems to be keeping their technology to themselves at the moment, despite previous agreements, it isn't too likely that they have America's detailed ship building plans. In that case they would need to start from scratch with whatever they can get through spying. Second, building ships requires naquadah which means the American government either needs to give them some or they need to have a way to get off world so that they can get it on their own. Everything from the power source of 304s which allows their weapons, engines, and overall systems to work to a 302 and its naquadah warheads, requires them to depend on the American government if they want to build ships. They had a brief chance of bypassing them when the Russians had their own ship, but most likely they would've just used it to get their own naquadah so they could build arm a fleet of 302s.


Thats why they need a cool little retroconed plot device. I would have it that just after Avalon the then on earth Baal sends one of his clones to investigate the Glastonbury cave. He then gets captured and makes a deal with the UK/European governments that in return for the carefree life he wanted on Earth he can make them major players in the SG program with ships plus he could have provide transport to collect naquidia. Cue out of blue a fleet of european ships with a new design turns up to help in an important battle and the Americans have no choice but to let them into the loop.

Also the British ship should be commanded by the guy who plays Morris in 24.

squeakytoad
March 2nd, 2007, 06:00 AM
All true, but the U.S.A in reality is not that co-operative!

Well, this show isn't reality. Too many people here get all uptight about what's said about the fictional representations of their nations in the fictional world of Stargate.

And I would beg to differ. You want reality? How about the United States giving more relief and aid to third-world, war-torn, and disaster-ravaged nations than all of Europe combined.? How about the United States sacrificing technology that would make it invulnerable to nuclear attack (which I personally think was a stupid move of the government) to keep peace among the countries of the United Nations? How about the United States signing countless peace accords and weapon limitations over decades, in which the US was one of the only ones who lived up to their end of the bargain whilst the Communist walked all over the US government and took it as an opportunity to just strengthen themselves? How about the United States canceling all the ward debts of most of Europe (and several Asian and African countries) twice, when in both opportunities, calling in those debts, or at least keeping them around, would solve many of the United State's financial problems while bankrupting the rest of the "competition"? How about the hundreds upon hundreds of times when America had to bow to the wishes of the scores of worthless nations within the UN who only sought a means to their own ends?

Despite what your new sources tell you, America has proved itself one of the most cooperative countries in the world. Especially since most other countries only cooperate cause they have nothing to lose or are afraid for their own well-being. Of course the pathetic mistakes of America's leaders over the last few years have certainly given the rest of the world a chance to sit back and laugh at America (despite being political laughing stocks themselves, but just not being important enough for anyone else to notice or care). And of course everyone chooses to shift the blame to the United States for things they originally supported but now realize their mistake but don't wish to admit it.

garhkal
March 2nd, 2007, 06:16 AM
That plus everyone whines about america, but when natural disasters hit, who is first there?? US. Who do they first turn to for aid? US.

Major Tyler
March 2nd, 2007, 06:33 AM
I'm positive that had the British, Russians, Chinese, or French gotten their hands on the Stargate program, they'd be a hundred times less cooperative than the United States has been in the series.I wouldn't be surprised if any of them actually used Stargate tech to topple the U.S. and assert themselves as the world superpower. The fact that the U.S. was already in that position means that they would not feel the temptation to take that step.

Also, chances are any other government would probably have gotten Earth blown up by now (except maybe the Brits). The Russians had their chance and they ran into a problem they couldn't solve alone within a month!

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 08:26 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if any of them actually used Stargate tech to topple the U.S. and assert themselves as the world superpower. The fact that the U.S. was already in that position means that they would not feel the temptation to take that step.

Are you really that inscure? Other than a few rogue states, the US is probably the most likely nation on Earth to try and use the Stargate to dominate the world.


Also, chances are any other government would probably have gotten Earth blown up by now (except maybe the Brits). The Russians had their chance and they ran into a problem they couldn't solve alone within a month!

Why is that exactly? Fair enough you can rule out relativley poor nations like Russia, but what would stop a western European nation or Japan from running a successful Stargate program?

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 08:37 AM
thats why in the last war game india beat states with Mig's and Kestrals?

Evidence?


and thats why all the american manufactuing jobs are going to india and china

Cheap labour, it't nothing to be proud of.



but not even the Britsh could repel a full scale attack from India just 2 good and if u dont believe me my uncle is the asian highest ranking navy officer and has been in the navy for was last 15 years give or take a year!

A full scale attack? With what? India has one aircraft carrier, a full scale attack would be over within a week with the entire Indian navy being sunk, the best trained submariners in the world would see to that. The fact of the matter is; India has next to no power projection capabilities at all, to suggest they could somehow mount a full scale attack on Britain is laughable.


The single greatest contibutor the world is India, it doesnt matter which subject you do it has it origins in india so and the funniest part is India is almost a world power and its got something stoopid like 80% corruption i cant imagine how far it could go with 70% or even 60% lmao!...

Again, utter rubbish. India single greates contributor to the world? Who the hell is feeding you this crap? There may have been some great academic achievements made by Indians a few hundred years ago, but can you give me any tangible contributions India has made to the world? My guess would be not many, not when compared with Europe and the US.

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 08:46 AM
lmao. India? A world power? Wow. Trying to say England is debatable, saying France is just absurd, but India? lol

No, saying England is absurd, saying the United Kingdom would be a fact, along with France. They might not be a hyper power like the US, but there's no denying that the UK and France along with Russia and China are world powers, if not I don't think we'd have a UN veto.

kefke20
March 2nd, 2007, 08:59 AM
That plus everyone whines about america, but when natural disasters hit, who is first there?? US. Who do they first turn to for aid? US.

and thay rebuild new orleans quit nicly, wodend you say.
come on. hipocrit

the first ho is on the disasters area are the member stats of the EU end of this discusion

Major Tyler
March 2nd, 2007, 09:20 AM
and thay rebuild new orleans quit nicly, wodend you say.Actually, yes. Rebuilding an entire city takes time (though I credit any progress to the state of Louisiana and the American public rather than the Bush Administration).

If Amsterdam suffered a flood on the same level of New Orleans, don't you think the U.S. would be the first to come to your aid?

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 09:35 AM
No chance.

nemisis
March 2nd, 2007, 09:47 AM
Well, this show isn't reality. Too many people here get all uptight about what's said about the fictional representations of their nations in the fictional world of Stargate.

And I would beg to differ. You want reality? How about the United States giving more relief and aid to third-world, war-torn, and disaster-ravaged nations than all of Europe combined.? How about the United States sacrificing technology that would make it invulnerable to nuclear attack (which I personally think was a stupid move of the government) to keep peace among the countries of the United Nations? How about the United States signing countless peace accords and weapon limitations over decades, in which the US was one of the only ones who lived up to their end of the bargain whilst the Communist walked all over the US government and took it as an opportunity to just strengthen themselves? How about the United States canceling all the ward debts of most of Europe (and several Asian and African countries) twice, when in both opportunities, calling in those debts, or at least keeping them around, would solve many of the United State's financial problems while bankrupting the rest of the "competition"? How about the hundreds upon hundreds of times when America had to bow to the wishes of the scores of worthless nations within the UN who only sought a means to their own ends?

Despite what your new sources tell you, America has proved itself one of the most cooperative countries in the world. Especially since most other countries only cooperate cause they have nothing to lose or are afraid for their own well-being. Of course the pathetic mistakes of America's leaders over the last few years have certainly given the rest of the world a chance to sit back and laugh at America (despite being political laughing stocks themselves, but just not being important enough for anyone else to notice or care). And of course everyone chooses to shift the blame to the United States for things they originally supported but now realize their mistake but don't wish to admit it.


hey i totaly agree and i'm british lol. Well i know how the U.s.a feel britian just is used i mean look at us and british forces being abused in afganistan:@

kefke20
March 2nd, 2007, 09:53 AM
Actually, yes. Rebuilding an entire city takes time (though I credit any progress to the state of Louisiana and the American public rather than the Bush Administration).

If Amsterdam suffered a flood on the same level of New Orleans, don't you think the U.S. would be the first to come to your aid?

sorry we don`t need very mutch, you equipment for a disaster like thad are noting more like toy`s to us.
if need to we can build up city`s after a disaster very fast (ower ecomedy depends on it and it helps we got funds for it ready)

we are bite suprist and insultes by the bush gov thay we get acses to the disaster area so late. on the first day we got ower pomps and water manigment engeneers raedy in the aireplane`s to be send to the US and we had allso allready dispact a warship from aruba carring food, medical suply and sucurety forces to acist. but we had to wait a copple of weeks.

you dont want to know how insulting is to us we are the best on thad area.

we evan held fund raisers for the riches county in the world and what do we se thad tailand is rebuilding faster after the tunamie than new Orleans. if bush can not help the americans hoe raely need it, so wy he is still in power. voor ons is dat echt onbegrijpelijk!

dosed150
March 2nd, 2007, 09:58 AM
one reason britain should be in on the stargate program more the americans stole their original stargate from us remember it was found in egypt while it was under british rule so the americans must have stolen it and pretewnded it was never there

nemisis
March 2nd, 2007, 10:16 AM
one reason britain should be in on the stargate program more the americans stole their original stargate from us remember it was found in egypt while it was under british rule so the americans must have stolen it and pretewnded it was never there



never realy crossed my mind lol

marty2006
March 2nd, 2007, 10:21 AM
one reason britain should be in on the stargate program more the americans stole their original stargate from us remember it was found in egypt while it was under british rule so the americans must have stolen it and pretewnded it was never there

Lmao bravo.

I still believe though the americans should have control over the stargate for the moment because i dont like the fact that ships from china and russia flying about out there getting upto god knows what, because when other races see those ships they arnt going to think oh look russia or china is stealing our resources there going to think earth so until all ships out there are controlled by one governing body i believe only the americans should have ships out there.

kefke20
March 2nd, 2007, 10:24 AM
Lmao bravo.

I still believe though the americans should have control over the stargate for the moment because i dont like the fact that ships from china and russia flying about out there getting upto god knows what, because when other races see those ships they arnt going to think oh look russia or china is stealing our resources there going to think earth so until all ships out there are controlled by one governing body i believe only the americans should have ships out there.

and thad one governing body most be the UN

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 10:47 AM
A compromise for the US could be to supply places like the EU, Russia, Japan with plans and materials to build 304's in exchange for manpower and money, but give away plans for ships that don't have hyper drives, then the countries can feel secure and help protect Earth, but at the same time the US can make sure that no other countries can be giving Earth a bad name by acting off their own accord around the galaxy.

Major Tyler
March 2nd, 2007, 11:00 AM
voor ons is dat echt onbegrijpelijk!Het is ook onbegrijpelijk aan Amerikanen. De overheid van Bush is niet het zelfde als de mensen van Amerika. Amerikanen waarderen wat de Nederlanders doen helpen in New Orleans.

kefke20
March 2nd, 2007, 11:09 AM
Het is ook onbegrijpelijk aan Amerikanen. De overheid van Bush is niet het zelfde als de mensen van Amerika. Amerikanen waarderen wat de Nederlanders New Orleans doen helpen.

ik weet heus wel dat het er een verschil is en hoop echt voor jullie dat de democraten een keer winnen.

we hebben meschien wel de reputatie dat we gretig (greedy) zijn. maar we helpen graag vrienden in nood.

Major Tyler
March 2nd, 2007, 11:17 AM
ik weet heus wel dat het er een verschil is en hoop echt voor jullie dat de democraten een keer winnen.

we hebben meschien wel de reputatie dat we gretig (greedy) zijn. maar we helpen graag vrienden in nood.Ik geloof de Democraten zullen winnen de volgende verkiezing, zoals de vorige verkiezing. Wanneer de "Struik" is gegaan zal ons land helen.

P.S. Leeft u werkelijk in een pretpark?

(Ik ben droevig als mijn Nederlands is slecht...Ik leerde een klein beetje in Vlaanderen.)

Major Tyler
March 2nd, 2007, 11:35 AM
and thad one governing body most be the UNI think NATO would be a much more appropriate entity to control the Stargate. I give a very detailed reasoning in the following thread:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=31462

Be sure to read both the opening post and my expansion found at this URL:
http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=6065525&postcount=39

I'd love to get more feedback and opinions.

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 11:40 AM
NATO would be perfect, if it weren't for the NA part ;)

Major Tyler
March 2nd, 2007, 12:10 PM
NATO would be perfect, if it weren't for the NA part ;)If you read my "GATO" thread, I fix that by turning the NA into a GA. ;)

nemisis
March 2nd, 2007, 12:56 PM
im not so sure about nato :s

Kingomon
March 2nd, 2007, 01:04 PM
but you can not do that allon and the ather counties, powes and allis whon`t stand for it. the best solosin is to place stargate comand homeworld secerety and the starnavy onder UN banner

UN....Ha ha ha
no offence but th UN is doing a great job with Iran. So lets toss them a fleet of ships and hope they do somthing.



Well, this show isn't reality. Too many people here get all uptight about what's said about the fictional representations of their nations in the fictional world of Stargate.

And I would beg to differ. You want reality? How about the United States giving more relief and aid to third-world, war-torn, and disaster-ravaged nations than all of Europe combined.? How about the United States sacrificing technology that would make it invulnerable to nuclear attack (which I personally think was a stupid move of the government) to keep peace among the countries of the United Nations? How about the United States signing countless peace accords and weapon limitations over decades, in which the US was one of the only ones who lived up to their end of the bargain whilst the Communist walked all over the US government and took it as an opportunity to just strengthen themselves? How about the United States canceling all the ward debts of most of Europe (and several Asian and African countries) twice, when in both opportunities, calling in those debts, or at least keeping them around, would solve many of the United State's financial problems while bankrupting the rest of the "competition"? How about the hundreds upon hundreds of times when America had to bow to the wishes of the scores of worthless nations within the UN who only sought a means to their own ends?

Despite what your new sources tell you, America has proved itself one of the most cooperative countries in the world. Especially since most other countries only cooperate cause they have nothing to lose or are afraid for their own well-being. Of course the pathetic mistakes of America's leaders over the last few years have certainly given the rest of the world a chance to sit back and laugh at America (despite being political laughing stocks themselves, but just not being important enough for anyone else to notice or care). And of course everyone chooses to shift the blame to the United States for things they originally supported but now realize their mistake but don't wish to admit it.
I agree :cool:

Hellfrost
March 2nd, 2007, 01:33 PM
And don't forget one of the most stuborn, greedy and (in a way) selfish countries in the world...

Anyways on-topic: The other nations could never build one without a stargate program. You need Naquadah to build a ship remember? What i don't get is this: Why doesn't the SGC just give russia there stargate back and just get one of there own from some abandoned plannet...?

p.s. Nederlands rockt maar ik geloof dat je engels moet praten...

Major Tyler
March 2nd, 2007, 02:13 PM
p.s. Nederlands rockt maar ik geloof dat je engels moet praten...Well, I'm American so I certainly don't mind speaking English. :P Dutch is a fun language, though. When I went to Belgium I was told to learn French, but the Flemish were patient enough to teach me, and the francophones...um, weren't.

Hellfrost
March 2nd, 2007, 02:22 PM
Never learn French, the language is really hard and the people are (like most germans) impossible to work with! But that's just my oppinion :P

kefke20
March 2nd, 2007, 02:43 PM
Never learn French, the language is really hard and the people are (like most germans) impossible to work with! But that's just my oppinion :P

but the germans girls are cool:D

also are the flemich, only thing wat iretats me when im are in belgem for a party, im always ask a copple of times if i got som drugs for sale.:(

but the french are indeed impolseble and roud. if you are on teras for a coffy ore somting thay are calling you names.

Sicktem
March 2nd, 2007, 04:22 PM
And don't forget one of the most stuborn, greedy and (in a way) selfish countries in the world...

Anyways on-topic: The other nations could never build one without a stargate program. You need Naquadah to build a ship remember? What i don't get is this: Why doesn't the SGC just give russia there stargate back and just get one of there own from some abandoned plannet...?

Because you can't run two stargate programs from the same planet and they'd be fighting over who has control to the point where someone eventually gets hurt. In fact, if I were the Russians the first thing I would do is go off world with a portable power supply, manually dial the gate back to Earth and bring the DHD back, so that their gate is the main gate and America's is the secondary gate. That means all off world teams would go to Russia unless they caused it to overload. We don't know what happens if America would also then get it's own DHD, but it's own system has served them far better than a DHD (minor glitches aside) so I don't see them wanting to switch to one under any situation. More likely it would force them to run normal operations from the Alpha site and they can either work with the Russians to ferry supplies and people over or use a 304. However, the American government would never go through either of those hassles which is why they would never give up the gate no matter what the cost. As of yet paying to rent the gate and giving up a 304 is cheaper than dealing with the backlash of not honoring their agreements. Not just from the Russians, but the IOA as well.

squeakytoad
March 2nd, 2007, 05:11 PM
No, saying England is absurd, saying the United Kingdom would be a fact, along with France. They might not be a hyper power like the US, but there's no denying that the UK and France along with Russia and China are world powers, if not I don't think we'd have a UN veto.

The entire nation of France collapses whenever a few of its truckers are feeling lazy.
Their housing prices have skyrocketed so high that thousands are sleeping in tents.
Their economy and government are in ruin.

The UK simply doesn't have the recourses. (But it's possible, which is why I said 'debatable').


sorry we don`t need very mutch, you equipment for a daister like thad are noting more like toy`s to us.
if need to we can build up city`s after a disaster very fast (ower ecomedy depends on it and it helps we got funds for it ready)

we are bite suprist and insultes by the bush gov thay we get acses to the deszaster area so late. on the first day we got ower pomps and water manigment engeneers raedy in the aireplance to be send to the US and we had allso allready dispact a warship from aruba carring food, medical suply and sucurety forces to acist. but we had to wait a copple of weeks.

you dont want to know how insulting is to us we are the best on thad area.

we evan held fund raisers for the riches county in the world and whad do we se thad tailand is rebuilding faster after the tunamie than new Orleans. if bush can not help the americans hoe raely need it, so way thay is he still in power. voor ons is dat echt onbegrijpelijk!

I can't even read this post due to the atrocious grammar and spelling.


one reason britain should be in on the stargate program more the americans stole their original stargate from us remember it was found in egypt while it was under british rule so the americans must have stolen it and pretewnded it was never there

Which is kind of laughable really. It wasn't even buried that deep.

It was found by a German (I think) archaeologist on British-owned Egyptian soil and then sold to the American Airforce (and, as mentioned once, we paid quite a bit for it).


but the germans girls are cool:D


Two words: Body hair.

Almost enough to make a decent-size winter cloak. Ewwww.

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 05:43 PM
The entire nation of France collapses whenever a few of its truckers are feeling lazy.
Their housing prices have skyrocketed so high that thousands are sleeping in tents.
Their economy and government are in ruin.

The UK simply doesn't have the recourses. (But it's possible, which is why I said 'debatable').


What's possible?

squeakytoad
March 2nd, 2007, 06:03 PM
What's possible?

That they'd be able to properly run their own program.

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 06:25 PM
That they'd be able to properly run their own program.

I thought we were talking about who are world powers and who aren't?

Col. Shadow Quinn
March 2nd, 2007, 06:43 PM
A compromise for the US could be to supply places like the EU, Russia, Japan with plans and materials to build 304's in exchange for manpower and money, but give away plans for ships that don't have hyper drives, then the countries can feel secure and help protect Earth, but at the same time the US can make sure that no other countries can be giving Earth a bad name by acting off their own accord around the galaxy.

Supplies would be spread very thin and it would take too long to build each 304 at the same time. Not every planet in the galaxy has Trinium and Naquadah you know. The British have never actually faced anything that comes in comparison of a Hatak Class vessel. Experience also plays a factor in running an intergalactic spacecraft you know.

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 07:59 PM
None of the American commanders had experience before they were chosen for their job either, that's what training is for.

squeakytoad
March 2nd, 2007, 08:00 PM
I thought we were talking about who are world powers and who aren't?

Hm... we were. Weren't we?

Ah well, my comments apply for both. France and the UK are hardly world powers (France especially; with England its debatable), and could hardly run their own Stargate program.

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 08:01 PM
Hm... we were. Weren't we?

Ah well, my comments apply for both. France and the UK are hardly world powers (France especially; with England its debatable), and could hardly run their own Stargate program.

They probably couldn't run their own Stargate program, but they're definatly world powers, there's no doubt about that. When I say world power I don't mean superpower by the way, more like a 'great power', since there is only one superpower these days.

MB.Eddie
March 2nd, 2007, 08:11 PM
A compromise for the US could be to supply places like the EU, Russia, Japan with plans and materials to build 304's in exchange for manpower and money, but give away plans for ships that don't have hyper drives, then the countries can feel secure and help protect Earth, but at the same time the US can make sure that no other countries can be giving Earth a bad name by acting off their own accord around the galaxy.

I didn't realize that the U.S had the right to decide whats in Earths best interests...

I would like to see more Brit's in Stargate. Their SAS is one of the best training military divisions in the world, and hey, they are cool people, so why not give them a ship, or an SG team.

I also like the idea that NATO or the UN have some sort of role to do with the Stargate. Perhaps in defending the solar system with ships...

garhkal
March 2nd, 2007, 10:05 PM
and thay rebuild new orleans quit nicly, wodend you say.
come on. hipocrit


Hippocrit? I don't think so. Comparatively the size of No (and all the other heavily damaged places) are larger than many of the disaster sites we have helped out... plys they probabily don't have anywhere near the politicing and backbiting our govt has..


I didn't realize that the U.S had the right to decide whats in Earths best interests...

Other than we have been doing all the 'representations' with other planets for this long, nothing.

kefke20
March 3rd, 2007, 01:37 AM
The entire nation of France collapses whenever a few of its truckers are feeling lazy.
Their housing prices have skyrocketed so high that thousands are sleeping in tents.
Their economy and government are in ruin.you have no idee ware you are talking about.
evry country will collapses if all the trucker are on strike.
and for housprices, for the price of a common hous in the netherlands you got in france a villa ore a castal. and im absolutie sertern that wan thay sleep in tent thay are on a vacantion

The UK simply doesn't have the recourses. (But it's possible, which is why I said 'debatable').perhaps, but the UK is part EU and is does have the recourses

I can't even read this post due to the atrocious grammar and spelling.
come on, i know the spelling is bad but you still make out what it sed

Two words: Body hair.

Almost enough to make a decent-size winter cloak. Ewwww.you never met a german girl doe you
i bet you have never been in europ
Hippocrit? I don't think so. Comparatively the size of No (and all the other heavily damaged places) are larger than many of the disaster sites we have helped out... plys they probabily don't have anywhere near the politicing and backbiting our govt has..
.thailand is rebuilding faster than the US. and thare disaster sites ware also big what does thad sed of the bush gov?
Supplies would be spread very thin and it would take too long to build each 304 at the same time. Not every planet in the galaxy has Trinium and Naquadah you know. The British have never actually faced anything that comes in comparison of a Hatak Class vessel. Experience also plays a factor in running an intergalactic spacecraft you know.the firs thing what we probely wuld do becaus we dont have direct acsec to the gate, is to build cargo ships and some sort of mobil mines.

and so mutch experience in ship to ship spacecombat got the US. not !
so what is youre point
Ik geloof de Democraten zullen winnen de volgende verkiezing, zoals de vorige verkiezing. Wanneer de "Struik" is gegaan zal ons land helen.

P.S. Leeft u werkelijk in een pretpark?

I hope it fore you.

i live in the town of Kaatsheuvel so the efteling is in my back yard

and you gato thread is cool. ever thagt about it to send it to tptb

nemisis
March 3rd, 2007, 07:19 AM
erm yer comfermation on season 4 sam cater turns up in the HMS.victory see|
<------------------
http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcdaedalusuu0.jpg



(this is only a JOKE!!)

Celtic Wizard
March 3rd, 2007, 08:08 AM
Getting back to the original reson for the post - a british Ship. Here are a list of Royal Navy ships

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Royal_Navy_ship_names

personnally I like HMS Atalanta:D

Celtic Wizard
March 3rd, 2007, 08:20 AM
How about this???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Rodney;)

squeakytoad
March 3rd, 2007, 08:45 AM
you have no idee ware you are talking about.
evry country will collapses if all the trucker are on strike.
and for housprices, for the price of a common hous in the netherlands you got in france a villa ore a castal. and im absolutie sertern that wan thay sleep in tent thay are on a vacantionperhaps,

Ohhh, vacationers? That's why they all told the news crews they were homeless.

As for the truckers, I'm not going to bother giving further comment. This is getting way off-topic.


know the spelling is bad but you still make out what it sed

Actually, I was having quite a bit of trouble doing so with your last post.
However, I looked up at your location, and found that you were in the Netherlands. So I'm not going to bug you about your spelling or grammar, because I myself probably sound just as bad when speaking and writing in foreign languages.


you never met a german girl doe you

That's quite an assumption. My great-grandmother was German, and therefore I have quite a few distant relatives in Germany. I have scores of German cousins (many of whom are female).
On top of that, my family used to run an international guest house, and I guarantee you that I have met over two hundred German women at least. Not to mention all the ones I've encountered having traveled around the world fifteen times.
Next time, don't make stupid assumptions.

And for the record, the body hair joke was a joke.


i bet you have never been in europ

As I've said, I've traveled around the world fifteen times. Don't make stupid assumptions.



thailand is rebuilding faster than the US. and thare disaster sites ware also big what does thad sed of the bush gov?

I don't know where you get your facts. I've spent the last year in Thailand, I've been to Phuket (one of the front-line places hit by the tsunami), I've seen the damage, I've talked to people who witnessed it, and I've read quite a bit on the matter.
It took quite a bit of time to clean this mess up. And that's including the hundreds of millions of dollars and aid that poured in from around the world (and just for your information, the United States was the largest provider of this aid).

As for New Orleans, the clean-up and rebuilding has been going quite well. The government has paid quite a bit to send aid and help restore.
One of the major problems holding it back is private property and businesses. There are many questions on who owns what, as well as who should pay for what. It's the bureaucrats that are slowing the process down.

And you're really proving yourself to be one of the many ignorant foreigners, who, despite the incredibly large problems in their own government (which no one really cares to point out cause they're miniscule nations and the problems have always been there anyway), without reading up on the issues or even bothering to find out some facts behind it, blames "the Bush government" for everything.
While he's one of the worst presidents our nation has seen, his administration doesn't even have enough authority to be blamed for all these things.
Most of all, I'm just tired of other nations jabbing at the lack of quality leadership within the United States over the last decade. Sure, America's got issues, but the rest have the world has major issues as well, and very often ten-fold.

And if you don't mind, this is getting incredibly off-topic.

stargaters
March 3rd, 2007, 09:09 AM
If we were going to use any names the first fleet,

also ships should be Australian as we are an island so nobody can touch us by walking into our country so the 304s would be safer,

Aussie 304s Names
The Vegemite
The Mango
The Alexander
The Sirius
The Saturn (Cause its a cool name)

nemisis
March 3rd, 2007, 11:36 AM
And you're really proving yourself to be one of the many ignorant foreigners, who, despite the incredibly large problems in their own government (which no one really cares to point out cause they're miniscule nations and the problems have always been there anyway), without reading up on the issues or even bothering to find out some facts behind it, blames "the Bush government" for everything.
While he's one of the worst presidents our nation has seen, his administration doesn't even have enough authority to be blamed for all these things.
Most of all, I'm just tired of other nations jabbing at the lack of quality leadership within the United States over the last decade. Sure, America's got issues, but the rest have the world has major issues as well, and very often ten-fold.

And if you don't mind, this is getting incredibly off-topic.



great to see someone finaly stand up for the USA good on you mate (say's the jolly brit ;) )

Ripple in Space
March 4th, 2007, 09:57 AM
I think all this talk of "super powers" is kind of silly (when regarding military strength). One thing SG1 got right was that if America went to war w/ Russia it wouldn't be an all-out victory, both sides would be crippled. Yeah, America would probably win, but at what cost? Plus if we all launched so many nukes the damage to the planet would probably be catastrophic.

Davidtourniquet
March 4th, 2007, 10:57 AM
The UK does have the resources to build a 304, take the ESA for example, the uk is the biggest contributor to the european space agency. The pound is a strong currency compared to the dollar. I'll say it again we were the first country to design and build a jet to vertically take off and to design and build the world's first supersonic jet. At the time, we could of gone down the spaceport route and if that had happened humanity in space would be completely different to what it is now. Our engineering achievements speak for themselves.

robo_zuul
March 4th, 2007, 04:06 PM
Yes, everyone loves his or her nation. That's why nationalism is such a powerful force. I have no doubt in my mind that the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Norway, Russia, South Africa, Australia, and so on are all wonderful places. I've visited many of them, and they all have something I love. What is the greatest nation on earth? Well that's easy. Canada. Because I live there, and it has public health care, affordable education, and the summers are pretty nice.

I'm sure anyone would argue his or her nation is the greatest because of national pride. American's especially love their country, and seemingly have a great deal of pride when it comes to their national identity. There's nothing wrong with that, and it makes thinking their nation is the best so much easier when it is the wealthiest and one of the largest in the world.

Because Stargate was targeted to an American audience in the beginning it's stayed primarily as such. Canada has been lucky as that is where the program is made and has allowed for the opportunity of some Canadian-isms to sneak in to the show.

That being said, I agree that I would like to see a more international primary cast for the show. Atlantis is already breaking some ground here with many nations being represented as civilians, but having other military forces present would be cool.

I'd like to see a smaller UK ship of unique design based off of existing technologies from the X303 and X304 crewed entirely by elite SAS agents. That'd be super cool. And for those who would argue, "that would never happen" remember this is fiction and it is quickly becoming a very international show that must appeal to a wider audience. Would it "never happen"? Who's to say, Stargate is so far in the world of fiction now and so far removed from our world that it is most certainly possible. That is what makes TV and film wonderful.

Finally, when the UK is finished with their intergalactic space vehicle, like 25 years from now, and has built much better ones they can sell the old ones to Canada with a hefty maintenance contract to boot.

garhkal
March 4th, 2007, 08:55 PM
thailand is rebuilding faster than the US. and thare disaster sites ware also big what does thad sed of the bush gov?

And how many countries are helping out Thailand compared to how many are helping out NO??

squeakytoad
March 4th, 2007, 09:37 PM
I'm sure anyone would argue his or her nation is the greatest because of national pride.

I wouldn't say 'everyone'. There's a new and growing group of teens in the US who are obsessed with Japan and everything about it, and would most likely give up all ties with the US to live there. (These kids are widely influenced by anime and really have little or no idea what Japan is actually like.)
Scary kids.

And then let's not forget all the millions of Americans who hate their country and spend their days complaining about it, but then... you never see them moving now do you...?

robo_zuul
March 4th, 2007, 10:15 PM
I wouldn't say 'everyone'. There's a new and growing group of teens in the US who are obsessed with Japan and everything about it, and would most likely give up all ties with the US to live there. (These kids are widely influenced by anime and really have little or no idea what Japan is actually like.)
Scary kids.

And then let's not forget all the millions of Americans who hate their country and spend their days complaining about it, but then... you never see them moving now do you...?

There will always exist an element of counter culture in any free nation, and arguably more so in the not so free ones. What makes the democratic west (both European and North American) so wonderful is the rich diversity of cultures that exist within those nations.

In the United States there was a period in the 80s during which Japanese culture was again revered, and the Chinese culture in the 70s. These are expressions of culture however and not nationalism per se. Anti-national sentiment also waves in popularity, and tends to rise during war times. But, as has happened many times in this topic already I digress.

The point here is that while equal representation of international characters will likely never happen on Stargate (given the distribution of it's audience) we can expect and even encourage a little more. It would be nice to see Earth rise to the status of the Tollan and other similar non-Earth humans that have put their petty national concearns aside when it comes to the security and development of the planet itself.

The world has many nations and each has a powerful strength and combining and exploiting those strengths is an ideal oft seen in Sci-Fi and is oddly underplayed in the SG shows as of recent. It's interesting that this debate often rears it's head in near-future or present day Sci-Fi programs both outside and from within the show (Space Above and Beyond comes to mind).

Essex
March 4th, 2007, 10:49 PM
And I find it funny that just about everyone here supporting the British getting one and saying the British are the "top soldiers in the world" are British. Little bias don't you think?


As an American living in the UK. I have to agree that the British Army is better trained than the U.S. whereas the U.S. has always had the better equipment and the manpower.

squeakytoad
March 4th, 2007, 11:11 PM
As an American living in the UK. I have to agree that the British Army is better trained than the U.S. whereas the U.S. has always had the better equipment and the manpower.

I have to give the British snipers some props for their mad skills. Those guys are deadly.

Army1990
March 5th, 2007, 12:42 AM
Um....



In reality, the United State's ties with other nations only make it weaker. Would it spend less time in foreign affairs and remove itself from UN, it would become a ton more powerful.
All UN and America's allies do, for the most part, is weigh it down, by putting restrictions on US defenses, weapons technology, and always requiring the US's help, and then getting all their war debts canceled (which, if the US had called in so many countless times, most of Asia and Europe would be in economic ruin while the United States thrived without debt- of course, this would hurt trade, but the US could always pay to build up the countries it needs for supplies).


What's this?
The half of the US technology from Europe and other countries in the world. For example there are a lot of US weapon programs which procced by BAE Systems(British). There are a lot of programs too where are co-operation beetween countries.

I hate that a lot of Americans(but not every) think they are the top of the world. For example when the EU accused the US for steal technologies from the Europian Union with a computer program, The US said that: EU doesn't have so advanced technology that the US want to steal. There are a lot of weapons in the world which are more advanced than the american ones and there are a lot of weapons used by the US which are Europian weapons. Oh and yes a lot of money for the weapon programs from EU or Asia.

I not said that the US is not a hightech strong nation. I only say that: Without his partners the US wouldn't be so powerful.

DarthNick
March 5th, 2007, 01:09 AM
British army are the better than americans and most probably the best in the world, cannot remember who it was but even a american general as admitted that the british are better trained. And the fact we tend to come out on top in war games means we must be better.

But that not what we here to talk about.


As for us getting a x-304.BC 304 or what ever they are call them, it about time t, it would be only thing which we would of wanted in trade for allowing them access to Merlin Cavern.

And we should see SAS solders going through the gate it be great.

Through all foriegns are evil to americans and TPTB.

Through it be great to see some british solders around rescueing sheppered and co butts.


I would like to add that beating the americans at wargames isn't something only the brits do. In a recent Nato wargame a US Carrier fleet was attacked by one of your dieselsubs (Royal dutch navy) which managed to sink a nimitz class carrier and two supporting frigates without even being detected.

kefke20
March 5th, 2007, 01:44 AM
I would like to add that beating the americans at wargames isn't something only the brits do. In a recent Nato wargame a US Carrier fleet was attacked by one of your dieselsubs (Royal dutch navy) which managed to sink a nimitz class carrier and to supporting frigates without even being detected.

rally thads cool

heb je daar een link van

kefke20
March 5th, 2007, 01:56 AM
And how many countries are helping out Thailand compared to how many are helping out NO??

what??

if you maen hou many countries are helping out the USA with katrina
alot

in fact whan the news ratct the netherlands of how bad it was. we loaded ower havy cargo plance with ower water pomps and water mangamand engeniers to go to the dasaster sit. the navy send from aroba a warship caring food and madical sulpis.
but we had to wait a couple of weeks befor we can get acses.
and by tan fama alrady had scruw things up.

the_dark_light
March 5th, 2007, 02:28 AM
British 304? Great idea (Says me the Brit lol)

What could it be called? Going on RN names I would say something like:

Invincible
Ark Royal

Going on the new Type 45 destroyer we could have something like Dauntless or Defender

What about the Victory? (not sure if that'd count, as Victory is (as far as I'm aware) a commissioned warship, even if she is an old sailship)

HMS Dreadnought?

Considering that it would be difficult to get funding for such a project, maybe they could grease the Treasury by offering to call it the HMS Gordon Brown ;)

DarthNick
March 5th, 2007, 03:31 AM
rally thads cool

heb je daar een link van


I will look it up wenn i get back home, atm at work.

How about this, every county it's own ships could be tricky, how about a EU dreadnought/battleship

Could be something like:

EU Warspite
EU Zeven Provinciën
EU Bismarck

etc etc.

Army1990
March 5th, 2007, 03:46 AM
I will look it up wenn i get back home, atm at work.

How about this, every county it's own ships could be tricky, how about a EU dreadnought/battleship

Could be something like:

EU Warspite
EU Zeven Provinciën
EU Bismarck

etc etc.

Yeah, it's a good idea i think. This was in my mind too. There can be a lot
of 304 if every EU country build his one, of course with a lot of EU money. Maybe there would be the flag of the nation on the ship(EU and the country). The unifrom can be similar to the EUFOR unifrom.
Of course it would be so expensive to put a lot of ship in the series, but the idea is good.

DarthNick
March 5th, 2007, 03:51 AM
It would be indeed expensive, but i don't think the EU can afford to have the defence of Earth in US hands (no offence).

ATM there are only 3 ships available, 3 for planetary defence. Come on that's just way to low. We need a lot of ships fast, the Ori are coming.

squeakytoad
March 5th, 2007, 04:23 AM
I hate that a lot of Americans(but not every) think they are the top of the world.

Actually, that's the Australians. You'll notice that the US uses maps where Canada, Greenland, Russia, and much of Europe is closer to the top. ;)


For example when the EU accused the US for steal technologies from the Europian Union with a computer program, The US said that: EU doesn't have so advanced technology that the US want to steal. There are a lot of weapons in the world which are more advanced than the american ones and there are a lot of weapons used by the US which are Europian weapons. Oh and yes a lot of money for the weapon programs from EU or Asia.

Where do you get this stuff? Seriously. What are you reading?


I not said that the US is not a hightech strong nation. I only say that: Without his partners the US wouldn't be so powerful.

Ah, but you forget, this works both ways. All of the partners wouldn't be so powerful without the US as well, thus lowering the power standard, and still leaving the US on top. Logic.
Also, America's allies (and even countries not even on peaceful terms with the United States) demand far more from the US than the US demands from them.

Army1990
March 5th, 2007, 05:44 AM
Actually, that's the Australians. You'll notice that the US uses maps where Canada, Greenland, Russia, and much of Europe is closer to the top. ;)

Yeah, you're right every country have their man who think his nation is the greatest and the most powerful. And yes, america start the Iraq war and we send troops too to the dangerous country(none the less nobody asked us about the begin of the war)




Where do you get this stuff? Seriously. What are you reading?


I don't remember exactly maybe on techweb.com(but if it's not true,--> it's true that the amercian goverment said the EU is far behind them in technology. Oh and about the Europian weapons in the US:
-MP5(Heckler and Koch:Germany)
-There are some rockets on US ship which are europian
-F35 Lightning II-->A big partner in the development is BAE systems(and a lot of money from other countries.
etc.

Of course there are US weapons in EU countries too.



Ah, but you forget, this works both ways. All of the partners wouldn't be so powerful without the US as well, thus lowering the power standard, and still leaving the US on top. Logic.
Also, America's allies (and even countries not even on peaceful terms with the United States) demand far more from the US than the US demands from them.

Yes of course. I know this. I only said that a lot of people(not only americans) don't know this. So i don't said the other nations are perfect, I only want to tell some facts.

knowles2
March 5th, 2007, 06:54 AM
Hm... we were. Weren't we?

Ah well, my comments apply for both. France and the UK are hardly world powers (France especially; with England its debatable), and could hardly run their own Stargate program.

UK is world power, as we are one of only one five countries with veto on the UN, also carried a lot of influence with a lot of other countries, technically our head of state still rules Australia and Canada.

Also we have one of the most powerful armies, navies, airforce in the world. Only really America beat our technical capabilities, and even that questionable in some areas, as a large portion of their military research projects of involve BEA systems or Military of defense scientists.

We could of handle a Stargate program. easily, and be just as successful as the US has been, and given how many times they have nearly destroyed the earth, Anubis, the asteroid, black hole incident, alien virus on at least two occasions, I say they have not been entirely successful on that side of things, even securing technology, they have probably lost more than they gain, how many ha taks have they destroyed, or how many aliens deals gone down the drain, and so on. we would probably invited countries to join our program much sooner and we would of probably shared the technology out between countries, with out trying with hold any of it like the Americans have been trying to do. Guest they probably gave up after they gave a 304 to the Russians, the first they probably did was to download the design schematics and sold them on to the highest bidder , then resold it to the second highest bidder and so fourth, until al the countries that want the designs had them.

And as India beating Britain, well I almost crying with laugher at that one, if we do not manage to sink you entire navy in fews hours after declaration of war why they still in port, it would be sunk before you got anywhere near our coast line.

And then your air force would be intercepted and shot down before they reach our air space, if our submarines have not already destroyed your air fields and jets on the ground.,

As for your armies, well if they cannot reach our shores, they cannot attack and defeat us can they now, we probably bomb the hell out them until you decide to surrender or until we start fell guilty about how easy we defeated you, or until our people are moaning about your casualties, and start protesting in London, but our government would probably just ignore them and continue to bomb the country until you surrender and become British colony again.

Both the SAS and SBS are the finest units in the world, we might hear even about how good the SAS are in the next few days if our diplomats needs rescuing in the Eritrea or where ever else they are being held. They certainly the finiest solders around, doubt many other would would come close to the,.

And yeah I am proud of Britain, and never stay a bad word about it. I am sure it the same with all other country populations, whether democratic free or not, in fact if they not free you probably be shot for not putting a good word in for you country.


.

jenks
March 5th, 2007, 08:51 AM
I wouldn't say 'everyone'. There's a new and growing group of teens in the US who are obsessed with Japan and everything about it, and would most likely give up all ties with the US to live there. (These kids are widely influenced by anime and really have little or no idea what Japan is actually like.)
Scary kids.

And then let's not forget all the millions of Americans who hate their country and spend their days complaining about it, but then... you never see them moving now do you...?

Hmm, the ones complaining and not moving are probably the most patriotic people over there, hating your government is not the same as hating your country.

randy23
March 5th, 2007, 09:58 AM
I wouldn't say 'everyone'. There's a new and growing group of teens in the US who are obsessed with Japan and everything about it, and would most likely give up all ties with the US to live there. (These kids are widely influenced by anime and really have little or no idea what Japan is actually like.)
Scary kids.

And then let's not forget all the millions of Americans who hate their country and spend their days complaining about it, but then... you never see them moving now do you...?


Where are you reading this from? There is a big difference in admiring a country's culture and defecting from your own in order to go there; and if they are so beguiled by the place, they would also be wise and interested enough to view some of the media in Japan, wouldn't they?

fallenexile452
March 5th, 2007, 10:25 AM
Isn't the American early warning system based in its allies countries? doesn't the US want to place its interceptor missiles in other countries so it doesn't get destroyed by ballistic missiles? Hmm that sounds like Americas allies are weakening them.
In respect to the Stargate universe, isn't the IOA funding most of the Stargate program? and the us military keeping most of the technology for themselves anyway?
The US government helped set up the organisations NATO and the UN and actively maintains its alliances, do you really think that the governement would maintain such relationships if they were detrimental?

the_dark_light
March 5th, 2007, 11:56 AM
Isn't the American early warning system based in its allies countries? doesn't the US want to place its interceptor missiles in other countries so it doesn't get destroyed by ballistic missiles? Hmm that sounds like Americas allies are weakening them.
In respect to the Stargate universe, isn't the IOA funding most of the Stargate program? and the us military keeping most of the technology for themselves anyway?
The US government helped set up the organisations NATO and the UN and actively maintains its alliances, do you really think that the governement would maintain such relationships if they were detrimental?

The system needs good radar coverage, as a result they need radar sites in several countries. Personally, I don't have a problem with missile defense, as long as it is coupled with disarmament. If we can shoot enemy missiles down, we won't need as many nukes. The problem is that a fully functional ABM net and nuclear weapons would look like an attempt at developing a first strike capability

Teforce
March 5th, 2007, 12:30 PM
come on people.... there is a reason why there are so many specialist special forces out there..... you cant just compare one to another.... tell a bunch of delta boys to go on a navy ship and do a mission, see how they preforms...... tell a team of SeALs to do a SOAR run and see what happens.... SAS/SBS usually go light and dont even wear body armour/armor... the fighting style is totally different..... why even bother arguing which one is better...

[US has AF, navy, army and marine corp. each has its own elite troops, and there is none of these which is better than which bussiness....]

[yes, it is true that, after you failed the SBS test, you will be sent to SAS test as second chance]

i do like the idea of having british troops/ships in atlantis, may be even find another new base for them, and have eps on one team ran into another during missions. the good old screw up each other missions and get it sorted out.

bniblett
March 5th, 2007, 12:47 PM
not alwas
like the aberham tanks of the usa great machiens but thay got a vital flau, like most mobile things of amerika thay got a thast for gasoline
if i was in conflict with the usa i would ignor the tanks and go for the hughs fleet of gas trucks thad ride after thame.

thats wy the dutch army got germans tanks, rpc an artilery.
butt the the air force is amerikan
and the navy is home made

its all albout how can deliver the best qwalty

and sorry if start to domenate tis thread


Canada has German tanks too hah, all 200 of them


and yeah, gas is a problem, BUT, seriously, the american air force could practically wipe the floor with any other military.

Its keeping control of ground that would be the problem (ie Iraq)

Salas1
March 5th, 2007, 12:48 PM
I'm just waiting for someone to say the wrong thing and suddenly have the 304 fleet turn on itself.

Nothing would happen, at all, the ship's shields are vastly superior to the weapons on board. It may answer the old question, 'what would happen if the unstoppable force met the immovable object?' though.

nemisis
March 5th, 2007, 12:52 PM
come on people.... there is a reason why there are so many specialist special forces out there..... you cant just compare one to another.... tell a bunch of delta boys to go on a navy ship and do a mission, see how they preforms...... tell a team of SeALs to do a SOAR run and see what happens.... SAS/SBS usually go light and dont even wear body armour/armor... the fighting style is totally different..... why even bother arguing which one is better...

[US has AF, navy, army and marine corp. each has its own elite troops, and there is none of these which is better than which bussiness....]

[yes, it is true that, after you failed the SBS test, you will be sent to SAS test as second chance]

i do like the idea of having british troops/ships in atlantis, may be even find another new base for them, and have eps on one team ran into another during missions. the good old screw up each other missions and get it sorted out.


you know i think that would be an amazing story line !.lol not one saving the other but ombiding:);)

Cban
March 5th, 2007, 01:19 PM
Canada has German tanks too hah, all 200 of them


and yeah, gas is a problem, BUT, seriously, the american air force could practically wipe the floor with any other military.

Its keeping control of ground that would be the problem (ie Iraq)

yes of course u cud wipe the floor with any other military ehem do u remember vietnam THEY WERE FARMERS!! and look how well u ppl did with ur suposed superiour man power skills and technology

kefke20
March 5th, 2007, 01:25 PM
Ohhh, vacationers? That's why they all told the news crews they were homeless..

tan have thos news crews have a look onder the bridge`s in the usa
look plaec frist at home befor you start baging another country, about a topit that is very actuwe in you owe country (around 16 mil about to kick out on the street, it was world news you now)



As for the truckers, I'm not going to bother giving further comment. This is getting way off-topic..

so wat you starden it




And for the record, the body hair joke was a joke.
.

it washent funny
pleas if you a joking juiss thos smilys, a miss read is easely done



As I've said, I've traveled around the world fifteen times. Don't make stupid assumptions..

cool i what to do thad some time. (only not 15 times :p )

fallenexile452
March 5th, 2007, 02:29 PM
Nothing would happen, at all, the ship's shields are vastly superior to the weapons on board. It may answer the old question, 'what would happen if the unstoppable force met the immovable object?' though.

i thought the answer to that was the annihilation of both objects.

squeakytoad
March 5th, 2007, 05:10 PM
Where are you reading this from? There is a big difference in admiring a country's culture and defecting from your own in order to go there; and if they are so beguiled by the place, they would also be wise and interested enough to view some of the media in Japan, wouldn't they?

I know a bunch of these kids. I'm serious, that's what they act like (and even say).



Hmm, the ones complaining and not moving are probably the most patriotic people over there, hating your government is not the same as hating your country.

True.

robo_zuul
March 5th, 2007, 08:50 PM
<snip> ...technically our head of state still rules Australia and Canada.
.

And we don't mind one bit. God save the Queen! Let's not forget that while she exists as a figurehead she has no legistlative power left in Canada. While techinically the Govoner General represents her she has no direct control over passed laws, injunctions and military actions. Even so, we still consider her wishes when making our decisions. It's the polite thing to do.

Army1990
March 5th, 2007, 11:25 PM
Canada has German tanks too hah, all 200 of them


and yeah, gas is a problem, BUT, seriously, the american air force could practically wipe the floor with any other military.

Its keeping control of ground that would be the problem (ie Iraq)

Yeah, but there are a lot of missles and plane in the world which can shoot down the US planes.

DarthNick
March 5th, 2007, 11:34 PM
Yeah, but there are a lot of missles and plane in the world which can shoot down the US planes.

Weapons provided by they US of A themselves, kinda funny isn't. Your just flying along in your F15/16/18 A-10 or whatever and then have a stinger blow up your ass (providing your a crappy pilot).

garhkal
March 6th, 2007, 03:32 AM
And then let's not forget all the millions of Americans who hate their country and spend their days complaining about it, but then... you never see them moving now do you...?

Pity.. I would help them pack...

Davidtourniquet
March 6th, 2007, 06:29 AM
Britain is one of the greatest countries to have existed why?

1) we havent been invaded in nearly 1000 years, despite many attempts.
2) we had the greatest empire that ever existed (which was actually broken up because of the americans after wwII)
3) We are one of the most powerful countries in the world (UN veto)
4) Our economy is the 5th largest in the world
5) SBS and SAS are known as the best elite forces in the world
6) We think with our minds and not with our guns (the american attitude of: if it moves, kill it)
7) As I've already said our engineering achievements speak for ourselves.
8) all this from a country about 40 times smaller(by area) than the US.

kefke20
March 6th, 2007, 07:04 AM
Britain is one of the greatest countries to have existed why?

1) we havent been invaded in nearly 1000 years, despite many attempts.2) we had the greatest empire that ever existed (which was actually broken up because of the americans after wwII)
3) We are one of the most powerful countries in the world (UN veto)
4) Our economy is the 5th largest in the world
5) SBS and SAS are known as the best elite forces in the world
6) We think with our minds and not with our guns (the american attitude of: if it moves, kill it)
7) As I've already said our engineering achievements speak for ourselves.
8) all this from a country about 40 times smaller(by area) than the US.


the dutch did it in 1688 only you call it nou The Glorious Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution)
and thad you empire was so sucses full, was done by dutch bankers
before The Glorious Revolution your treasery was a mess

Cban
March 6th, 2007, 10:08 AM
the dutch did it in 1688 only you call it nou The Glorious Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution)
and thad you empire was so sucses full, was done by dutch bankers
before The Glorious Revolution your treasery was a mess

and thats only one country .. there is the rest of europe if they were one it would be the most powerful nation on the planet by far

squeakytoad
March 6th, 2007, 05:09 PM
Britain is one of the greatest countries to have existed why?

Because you're British, and therefore think highly of your own country. There's nothing wrong with that.


1) we havent been invaded in nearly 1000 years, despite many attempts.

Are you kidding? What are you counting as an "invasion"?


2) we had the greatest empire that ever existed (which was actually broken up because of the americans after wwII)

And lost it.
Oh yeah, and you're wrong as far as "ever existed". The Roman Empire covered far more regions.


3) We are one of the most powerful countries in the world (UN veto)

But you don't actually have any means of backing up that "power".


4) Our economy is the 5th largest in the world

Most competitions don't even have awards for fifth place.


5) SBS and SAS are known as the best elite forces in the world

A round of applause.


6) We think with our minds and not with our guns (the american attitude of: if it moves, kill it)

This statement shows the incredible arrogance and stupidity that possesses so many British.


7) As I've already said our engineering achievements speak for ourselves.

My infant cousin is learning to speak for himself.


8) all this from a country about 40 times smaller(by area) than the US.

All this from a country that's been around four times as long as the United States and still didn't make a fourth of advancements the US did in its few hundred years.

And since when did land mass matter? Look at Canada. Great place, great people, but hardly what I'd call a powerful nation.

jenks
March 6th, 2007, 05:50 PM
And lost it.
Oh yeah, and you're wrong as far as "ever existed". The Roman Empire covered far more regions.

The British Empire was the largest ever.



But you don't actually have any means of backing up that "power".

Britains power projection is second only to the US


This statement shows the incredible arrogance and stupidity that possesses so many British.

It's actually not as far from the truth as you'd expect, it explains why the Americans are such bad peace keepers.


All this from a country that's been around four times as long as the United States and still didn't make a fourth of advancements the US did in its few hundred years.

Rubbish, I'm sorry but that's one of the stupidest things you could have possibly said. Britain has given the world the Electric Motor, Internal Combustion Engine, Jet Engine, Lightbulbs, Periodic Table, Radar, Steam Engine, Television, Shakespear, Isaac Newton, Darwin! The list goes on... infact half the world would probably still be living in mud huts if it wasn't for Britain.

Look I aren't a fan of all this British nationalist crap in this thread, but to say America has made more advancements than the UK is just silly, Britain has arguably had more influence on the shaping of the world than any other country.

squeakytoad
March 6th, 2007, 06:40 PM
Look I aren't a fan of all this British nationalist crap in this thread, but to say America has made more advancements than the UK is just silly, Britain has arguably had more influence on the shaping of the world than any other country.

Ahhh, you got me wrong. I wasn't saying America has made more advancements than the UK. I was saying that the United States has made more advancements if you ratio the amount of time they've been around. England's been about since 927 AD. The US has only been around since 1776.
Also, with all those discoveries and inventions you've listed, many of them were created by the Americans and perfected by the British, or the other way around.
I was talking about advancements in all areas (science and technology, culture and society, military and politics, etc). The US didn't spend five hundred years in a nearly frozen state in nearly every area.

Of course, all these nations contribute to each other. As stated earlier, no one would be nearly where they were without the combined efforts of the world. Even in war, advancements are made.

I think Daniel Jackson had the right idea when he said once the world saw what was out there, all our petty differences wouldn't mean anything. We'd consider ourselves citizens of Earth and be able to advance far further united than we have separated.

squeakytoad
March 6th, 2007, 09:38 PM
And a post to deal with this "British Empire largest ever".


The British Empire was the largest ever.


2) we had the greatest empire that ever existed



Definition of Empire according to Dictionary.com:
–noun
1. a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or government: usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom.


As far as percentage of world population under rule goes (it is ridiculous to say the British Empire had the most people under its dominion out of all empires, when there were far more people alive then than there were in the past) the Qing Empire was the only one to gain over 35% of the world's population. British Empire isn't even in the top five.

As far as land goes, if you only include land within established nations, the British Empire did indeed have the most land.
However Philip II of Spain controlled more land than any other in all of history, if you include all lands laid claim to and controlled (including uninhabited regions).

As far as economy goes, the American Empire was largest for both GDP size and Percentage of world GDP.

The Roman Empire also had far more of the known world conquered than any other empire. The Roman Empire was also a global dominator longer than the British Empire.


There's no denying the British Empire was one of the five greatest empires in the history of the world.
However, I wouldn't go as far to say that it was the number one.


All facts backed up by Wikipedia (and for the "LOL"ers, studies have proven that Wikipedia is only 2.4% less reliable than Encarta, and all facts I used were backed up by quite a few other sources), two senior high school history textbooks, and various other sources.

jenks
March 6th, 2007, 10:09 PM
All facts backed up by Wikipedia.

LOL.

squeakytoad
March 6th, 2007, 10:18 PM
LOL.

And I was just starting to really think you were quite intelligent...

jenks
March 6th, 2007, 10:45 PM
And I was just starting to really think you were quite intelligent...

You realise what you just said? 'all facts backed up by wikipedia'. Do you know where wikipedia gets its content? You might as well of just said 'all facts backed up by some guy I met at the pub', that's how much of a viable resource wikipedia is.

MB.Eddie
March 6th, 2007, 11:33 PM
You realise what you just said? 'all facts backed up by wikipedia'. Do you know where wikipedia gets its content? You might as well of just said 'all facts backed up by some guy I met at the pub', that's how much of a viable resource wikipedia is.

It is true. Wikipedia is not an accurate source of facts. It can be altered by anyone...

squeakytoad
March 7th, 2007, 12:01 AM
You realise what you just said? 'all facts backed up by wikipedia'. Do you know where wikipedia gets its content? You might as well of just said 'all facts backed up by some guy I met at the pub', that's how much of a viable resource wikipedia is.


It is true. Wikipedia is not an accurate source of facts. It can be altered by anyone...

Studies show that Wikipedia is only a few percent less accurate than Encarta. And those few percent come from the few small articles the moderators have passed over.
Wikipedia has thousands of moderators skimming over all content to make sure it is factual and backed up by other recourses.
All articles are required to cite sold and reputable sources for pieces of information.
Millions upon millions are on Wikipedia at nearly all times. The larger pages (especially the ones I got my information from) have been edited by over a thousand people.
Sure people can edit and vandalize, but their work is usually short-lived.
It is one of the top twenty visited sites in the world for a reason.

Ah, of course, you choose to believe all these opinionated and unsourced facts provided by bias people throughout this thread.


Do you know where wikipedia gets its content?

All the reliable sources that are required for information to be added? From the several million scholars, scientists, historians, teachers, and professors that daily add and edit information? From fifty million other people that add and verify each other's work?

Rather ignorant to say that Wikipedia is as reliable as a guy at the pub. Ah well, it's to be expected.

HAL
March 7th, 2007, 12:12 AM
You dont that most of americans advanced technology was stolen from the nazis at the end of ww2 ?


And Of course england can run their own 304 we're still rather rich even if our goverment wastes our resources also I still believe we control and still have rights over afew other countrys namely austrilia who still have the same queen as us :)

Major Tyler
March 7th, 2007, 04:29 AM
You dont that most of americans advanced technology was stolen from the nazis at the end of ww2?Wow...just wow. Whoever told you that, I just hope they don't claim to be an educator...what a shame.
I still believe we control and still have rights over afew other countrys namely austrilia who still have the same queen as us :)You can choose to believe what you want, but the fact is the Commonwealth of Nations (the successor to the British Empire) does not "control" any of its member states. Basically it is an historical relationship, rather than a domination. Countries like Canada and Australia agree to recognize the British monarch as a head of state...and that's it. Heads of State do not participate in governing, they just serve are a figurehead or a personification of the country...kind of like a hood ornament.

The only substantive difference is that Queen Elizabeth is on the coins of Commonwealth members. Technically, the Queen has to approve the appointment of Prime Ministers, but in any country other than the UK, this means nothing. If the Queen ever tried to block a democratically elected Prime Minister in Australia, they'd just leave the Commonwealth and be done with it. I think there is one example in Canada when the Governer-General (the Queen's official representative in Canada) attempted to veto a Prime Minister, and the Canadian government's response was, "Well in that case, you're fired." Needless to say the Governer-General decided to approve the appointment. ;)

By the way, I'm an American, and this is what education produces.

Army1990
March 7th, 2007, 05:27 AM
I think the British could have some 304. It's a joke that only the US have enough money to build a 304. I think if more country(just like Russia and China) make an allience than they can force out materials from the US(trinium). But I know that too it would be too expensive, because they need to make more expensive CGIs, some new uniform and so on.

Yeah, and I want to see some EU 304, which build by EU money and have international crew(for example:british, hungarian, german, polish).

squeakytoad
March 7th, 2007, 05:30 AM
It's a joke that only the US have enough money to build a 304.

Like the rest of the world, the United States is drowning in debt. I doubt it could ever pull off a project like that.

Army1990
March 7th, 2007, 05:46 AM
Like the rest of the world, the United States is drowning in debt. I doubt it could ever pull off a project like that.

I don't said that the US haven't got enough money for the project.

I said that there are a lot of other country in the world which have enough money to build a 304.

Tanith
March 7th, 2007, 05:56 AM
Most competitions don't even have awards for fifth place.

My infant cousin is learning to speak for himself.
You do realise these replies are dumb right? If you want to dispute what another poster says then actually do so; saying your cousin is learning to speak adds nothing to the discussion.

Back to the original topic, I’d love to see a 304 with HMS in its name and I’m sure the UK could afford to build a couple of them.

Does anyone know if the IOA control the materials being mined off world? If they do they probably give each country a share of the naquadah and trinium being collected which then could be used to make a start on building the ships. Russia had/has a naquadah generater program so they must have gotten naquadah from somewhere.

Another thing is the Asgard are allies of Earth, not just the US so it stands to reason that they would help other countries build hyperdrives and other things the 304's have.

squeakytoad
March 7th, 2007, 06:11 AM
You do realise these replies are dumb right? If you want to dispute what another poster says then actually do so; saying your cousin is learning to speak adds nothing to the discussion.


I thought they were pretty silly points or posts, so I responded likewise.


I don't said that the US haven't got enough money for the project.

I said that there are a lot of other country in the world which have enough money to build a 304.

I know. I was saying, realistically, I don't know how any nation could afford something like that (not sure really, would love to see some accurate figures on the costs).
I suppose it's assumed that a lot of the components are gifts from the Asgard.

UlsterBob
March 7th, 2007, 06:16 AM
I'd love to see a British SG team on Atlantis or somewhere. Or a prominent cast member with a Union Jack arm badge! As a non-Scottish and non-English Brit I felt slightly uncomfortable with a British character like Beckett wearing the Saltire on its own - while many Scottish regiments fly the Saltire and rampant lion, they don't do it "officially" - their colours are the Union Jack, and his coffin would not be draped with a saltire. I've heard the civilian argument put forward, but on a big official placement with a foreign power (USA) I don't think he would have a choice to wear the saltire on it's own. You don't see the federal flags of US states on SGA characters after all... Anyway that's way off topic!!!

How about the name "HMS Invincible" for a X304?

Though, to be lighthearted a second - given that in the real world there's a serious lack of equipment currently faced by HM Armed Forces, if this was a real offer I doubt it would be high on their wish-list!!! ;) :D Like try getting those two proper aircraft carriers built at the moment...

Also - plea to Americans - when referring to the UK - please don't say "England" when referring to our armed forces - our armed services are made up of folks from all four parts of the United Kingdom.

gateroom
March 7th, 2007, 06:41 AM
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD

Stop saying who can't have a 304 and who can or who can afford it.

IT IS A T.V. SHOW


By the way Major Tyler the Moderator is right and I say nice writing.

jenks
March 7th, 2007, 09:43 AM
All the reliable sources that are required for information to be added? From the several million scholars, scientists, historians, teachers, and professors that daily add and edit information? From fifty million other people that add and verify each other's work?

Rather ignorant to say that Wikipedia is as reliable as a guy at the pub. Ah well, it's to be expected.

Rather ignorant, not if you watch the news - several million scholars, scientists, historians, teachers, and professors you say? Ah but how many of those are genuine?

kefke20
March 7th, 2007, 10:03 AM
the United States is drowning in debt. I doubt it could ever pull off a project like that.

thay will do wat thay alwas do ask china for te monney:p

Major Tyler
March 7th, 2007, 10:26 AM
thay will do wat thay alwas do ask china for te monney:pOngelooflijk! :rolleyes: We don't "ask China for the money," they offer to "buy" our debt in exchange for lucrative economic benefits. They get just as much if not more benefits from it than we (the U.S.) do. I won't bother trying to explain it because macroeconomic concepts are difficult to convey unless both parties have been educated in it (plus we have the language barrier).

kefke20
March 7th, 2007, 10:33 AM
And a post to deal with this "British Empire largest ever".
.

the British Empire was largest ever.
thay got on 1 point 2/3 of the world under them



;
As far as percentage of world population under rule goes (it is ridiculous to say the British Empire had the most people under its dominion out of all empires, when there were far more people alive then than there were in the past) the Qing Empire was the only one to gain over 35% of the world's population. British Empire isn't even in the top five.
.

i dont know of thad i con`t foud somting about it



As far as land goes, if you only include land within established nations, the British Empire did indeed have the most land.
However Philip II of Spain controlled more land than any other in all of history, if you include all lands laid claim to and controlled (including uninhabited regions).

Philip II of Spain lost most of it to the dutch, francs, prusians and britons with in a decade he got it. and the britons held it out for a copple of honderd of yaers



As far as economy goes, the American Empire was largest for both GDP size and Percentage of world GDP.

yes but only oficely, unoficely EU is the bigest (not a real countrie jet)
and sins when is the usa a empire

so far i know the only countie got the title empire is of cours japan.
and the last kolonial empirs the UK france and the kingdom of the netherlands
(of spain and portegal i dont now if thay stil got oversae power)



The Roman Empire also had far more of the known world conquered than any other empire. The Roman Empire was also a global dominator longer than the British Empire..

the roman empire go`s global wat a joke. it only conquered land around the middle terrania.



All facts backed up by Wikipedia (and for the "LOL"ers, studies have proven that Wikipedia is only 2.4% less reliable than Encarta, and all facts I used were backed up by quite a few other sources), two senior high school history textbooks, and various other sources.

i found and edit many misthacs in wikipidia. personly i think it is graet to pick somthing up in it. but to jus it in a school picse not so good.

kefke20
March 7th, 2007, 10:40 AM
:P
Ongelooflijk! :rolleyes: We don't "ask China for the money," they offer to "buy" our dept in exchange for lucrative economic benefits. They get just as much if not more benefits from it than we (the U.S.) do. I won't bother trying to explain it because macroeconomic concepts are difficult to convey unless both parties have been educated in it (plus we have the language barrier).

i was joking dude :P !!

but i know the is alot of monney of china an india going to the stats.
i dont know the poletics about it (i think it has somthing to do with the war in the middle east)

HAL
March 7th, 2007, 10:41 AM
we still own afew towns in france


gibratar


the falklands even tho it only has like 100 people on it



and the information about americans gaining most of their current tech for the nazis was from recent released american documents and other sources

Also the KGB files released also state the same kind of thing ie that at the end of the war the Americans and the russians split up the plunders of war

Cban
March 7th, 2007, 12:18 PM
the British Empire was largest ever.
thay got on 1 point 2/3 of the world under them




i dont know of thad i con`t foud somting about it



Philip II of Spain lost most of it to the dutch, francs, prusians and britons with in a decade he got it. and the britons held it out for a copple of honderd of yaers



yes but only oficely, unoficely EU is the bigest (not a real countrie jet)
and sins when is the usa a empire

so far i know the only countie`s whare the title empire is of cours japan.
and the last kolonial empirs the UK france and the kingdom of the netherlands
(of spain and portegal i dont now if thay stol got oversae power)



the roman empire go`s global wat a jock. it only conquered land around the middle terrania.



i found and edit many misthacs in wikipidia. personly i think it is graet to pick somthing up in it. but to jus it in a school picse not so good.

well done defending the eu honour but it doesnt reli need defending the achievements of the europeans far out weigh any thing that any other country has achieveed or may ever achieve the europeans are still the world powers they control most of the worlds economy oh and yes the brittsh did have the biggest and best empire and were better than the romans and yet still u american believe are are better i still cant think of how u think this

Davidtourniquet
March 7th, 2007, 01:20 PM
Because you're British, and therefore think highly of your own country. There's nothing wrong with that.
Hey, I'm just laying out the truthful facts, at the moment internally britain is screwed up.


Are you kidding? What are you counting as an "invasion"?
As in a foreign country taking over and ruling the occupied country.


And lost it.
Oh yeah, and you're wrong as far as "ever existed". The Roman Empire covered far more regions.
The british empire covered 1/3 of the earth's surface. The saying goes the sun never sets on the british empire.


But you don't actually have any means of backing up that "power".



Most competitions don't even have awards for fifth place.
Who said anything about a competition.



A round of applause.



This statement shows the incredible arrogance and stupidity that possesses so many British.
Not really especially when the facts are there in front of you.


My infant cousin is learning to speak for himself.
Yeah but has your cousin designed and built aircraft that no other country has been able to replicate.



All this from a country that's been around four times as long as the United States and still didn't make a fourth of advancements the US did in its few hundred years.
While true, america is made up of 50 countries (called states) it's basically a continent on it's own only canada stops it being a full continent.
Plus what has america given us that they made mcdonalds and a lot of wars that they never win. (4 examples of wars the yanks have started and not won, vietnam, gulf war 1, afghanistan, gulf war 2).
The democracy that america prides itself on was first made in which country, hmmm the land of hope and glory and mother of the free, the founder of democracy would be Britain again. Plus most americans ancestry lies in Britain (particularly England). America is only a superpower because of it's size, same went for russia and the same will go for china. Man-power decides if a country is a superpower or not nowadays.

And since when did land mass matter? Look at Canada. Great place, great people, but hardly what I'd call a powerful nation.

Land mass has everything to do with it, more land generally more people, more human resources and hence more developement. Just putting into perspective.

kefke20
March 7th, 2007, 01:43 PM
are you talking to your self:mckay:

the_dark_light
March 7th, 2007, 02:51 PM
are you talking to your self:mckay:

Be afraid, be very afraid

squeakytoad
March 7th, 2007, 03:40 PM
Rather ignorant, not if you watch the news - several million scholars, scientists, historians, teachers, and professors you say? Ah but how many of those are genuine?

The news is rather unreliable as well. Whenever a "Breaking Story" hits, they throw out whatever information they can, often even stating "unconfirmed reports", just cause they want to be the first to show something.
Most major news networks are also notorious for blowing things out of proportion, mixing up their facts (often intentionally to make their own point), and having some of the most bias views in the world.

jenks
March 7th, 2007, 03:42 PM
I was refering specifically to a report about some random guy who had been a mod on Wikipedia for a long time claiming to have all sorts of qualifications, changing lots of pages, tuned out he was a college drop out.

knowles2
March 7th, 2007, 04:35 PM
Well fact is generally studies show wikipedia to be rather accurate, unlike my spelling. It not necessary to have trained professors and moderators because that no how wikipeodia was ever intended to be used to be kept accurate, in fact they were only their to stop people from suein liable when people post up lies about modern day people. it sole idea that knowledge of the whole population would keep in accurate and in general it does. I my self have correct a few pieces on their, and things that was wrong, but that how it suppose to work and it generally does work very well. And it probably only a matter of time before it grows to be far more accurate than is rivals.

As for the Britain having the largest empire, going by land mass then yes we did.

We also had the most powerful navy in world and control most of the world seas, that how we were able to eliminate world slavery so quickly because we had the resource and force projection to face down any nation which carried on the slavery on a international scale or used navies to transfer slaves between countries.

Britain was/is the birth place for many inventions and ideas, if American is king at anything it stealing bribing or paying for those those inventions, and then writing the history books to say they invented it in the first place.

I am surprise you have not tried to do it to our greatest invention yet the Internet.

but their you go.

And for a world power Britain, among the few countries in the world who actually willing to fight and get their hand dirty when ever we are asked.
We are the first to generally to respond for requests for armed interventions or troops for the un if, have them available, which is not often at the moment as we got rather deployment going on at the moment.

garhkal
March 7th, 2007, 09:05 PM
I think if more country(just like Russia and China) make an allience than they can force out materials from the US(trinium). .

And how would they 'force it'?

jenks
March 7th, 2007, 10:06 PM
And how would they 'force it'?

Threaten to reveal the program, or cut funding etc etc...

Merlin1701
March 8th, 2007, 01:15 AM
HOW…
I agree that other countries should provide assistance, and the UK would be a nice addition to the fight and defence of the galaxy. The current US training program could be used to train the officers of new ships this would still show that the US had control over the program.
The crew could be made up of different defence sectors:
• Command officers from the Royal Navy
• Fighter pilots from the Royal Air force
• Ship security from the army
• Planetary teams from special forces

The point made early in the thread defining an all American fleet as the way forward could be determined as detrimental to integration of other nations into planetary and of late galactic defence. However I feel that the US shouldn’t foot the bill for ship construction this should come from the nation, in this case Britain.

It could integrate the current defence situation of moth-balling navel vessels and grouping forces to fund such a project.

DIFFERENT ROLES FOR DIFFERENT NATIONS
Other nations shouldn’t get the BC-304 spec though I feel the UK should focus on destroyers. They should follow the Prometheus look but with more of a centre on larger fighter bays with the incorporation of the Deadalus additions.

MATERIALS
On the grounds of materials the path Russia took in bribing the administration was not the same path that should be taken by other nations.
With problems with the Wraith and the future Ori threat the production of vessels will be increased, so other nations will have to secure more materials to build such ships. The IOA has a level of control over the Stargate program as we have seen in recent episodes and their persuasion is lent towards ship construction The mining of the ore will have been increased and other nations will have taken a more active role in this with the aim of procurement.

Cban
March 8th, 2007, 07:40 AM
Because you're British, and therefore think highly of your own country. There's nothing wrong with that.
Hey, I'm just laying out the truthful facts, at the moment internally britain is screwed up.


Are you kidding? What are you counting as an "invasion"?
As in a foreign country taking over and ruling the occupied country.


And lost it.
Oh yeah, and you're wrong as far as "ever existed". The Roman Empire covered far more regions.
The british empire covered 1/3 of the earth's surface. The saying goes the sun never sets on the british empire.


But you don't actually have any means of backing up that "power".



Most competitions don't even have awards for fifth place.
Who said anything about a competition.



A round of applause.



This statement shows the incredible arrogance and stupidity that possesses so many British.
Not really especially when the facts are there in front of you.


My infant cousin is learning to speak for himself.
Yeah but has your cousin designed and built aircraft that no other country has been able to replicate.



All this from a country that's been around four times as long as the United States and still didn't make a fourth of advancements the US did in its few hundred years.
While true, america is made up of 50 countries (called states) it's basically a continent on it's own only canada stops it being a full continent.
Plus what has america given us that they made mcdonalds and a lot of wars that they never win. (4 examples of wars the yanks have started and not won, vietnam, gulf war 1, afghanistan, gulf war 2).
The democracy that america prides itself on was first made in which country, hmmm the land of hope and glory and mother of the free, the founder of democracy would be Britain again. Plus most americans ancestry lies in Britain (particularly England). America is only a superpower because of it's size, same went for russia and the same will go for china. Man-power decides if a country is a superpower or not nowadays.

And since when did land mass matter? Look at Canada. Great place, great people, but hardly what I'd call a powerful nation.

Land mass has everything to do with it, more land generally more people, more human resources and hence more developement. Just putting into perspective.

u are english right ? and you are calling the english arogant ? and britain is not srewed up maybe be where you are from but not from where i am does someone not have thr right to have pride in where thry are from and thier roots. the briish have a right to be proud of their own country so does all of europe they all have the right considering all of the history and they HAVE made the most advances ourt of any other country

Major Tyler
March 8th, 2007, 08:16 AM
u are english right ? and you are calling the english arogant ? and britain is not srewed up maybe be where you are from but not from where i am does someone not have thr right to have pride in where thry are from and thier roots. the briish have a right to be proud of their own country so does all of europe they all have the right considering all of the history and they HAVE made the most advances ourt of any other countryYou can be proud of your country without bashing others. Why don't people understand this? I have no problems with Brits, but reading this thread makes me resent them because people claiming to represent the UK say awful things about my country (the U.S.). Is that really the effect you want to have? If so, congratulations. Thankfully I can disconnect from the people in this thread and realize that most Brits and Europeans are thoughtful, kind, and intelligent people. Not everyone can do that.

I also find it amusing that you (general) call Americans stupid, and yet you can't even type a grammatically and compositionally correct sentence in a language your people created! Do yourselves a favor...at least learn about correct English punctuation and spelling before you tell people that you're FROM ENGLAND!

P.S. To get you started, the first word of every sentence should be capitalized.

Army1990
March 8th, 2007, 09:46 AM
There was a basic idea: A british 304 in the series

I think it's now a fight between people from diffrent countries.

All nations have their strength and their weakness. I think the some british critised the US because some americans in the forums said that the Great Britain or the Europian Union can't build one because it hadn't got enough manpower and money. The Britain(or the EU) can build one if the US give them trinium.

I would like to see some British or EU ships in the series. There can be an episode, where the countries force out some trinium from the US(like the russians forced out a 304 in season 9).

Cban
March 8th, 2007, 12:06 PM
You can be proud of your country without bashing others. Why don't people understand this? I have no problems with Brits, but reading this thread makes me resent them because people claiming to represent the UK say awful things about my country (the U.S.). Is that really the effect you want to have? If so, congratulations. Thankfully I can disconnect from the people in this thread and realize that most Brits and Europeans are thoughtful, kind, and intelligent people. Not everyone can do that.

I also find it amusing that you (general) call Americans stupid, and yet you can't even type a grammatically and compositionally correct sentence in a language your people created! Do yourselves a favor...at least learn about correct English punctuation and spelling before you tell people that you're FROM ENGLAND!

P.S. To get you started, the first word of every sentence should be capitalized.


I have nothing against americans or any one else its when they all say they are better then just gotta defend ur countrys honour its just when ppl dont know what they are talking about and they just make stupid asumptions.

Major Tyler
March 8th, 2007, 01:22 PM
I have nothing against americans or any one else its when they all say they are better then just gotta defend ur countrys honour its just when ppl dont know what they are talking about and they just make stupid asumptions.When "they all say" they are better? Do you mean to tell me you've been in contact with all 300 MILLION Americans, and they "all say" that they are better? I think the hyperbole police have just put an APB out on you.

Practice what you preach.

garhkal
March 8th, 2007, 08:25 PM
Threaten to reveal the program, or cut funding etc etc...

The first one might work.. but the second... I Don't remember any mention that they fund us..

kefke20
March 8th, 2007, 09:18 PM
The first one might work.. but the second... I Don't remember any mention that they fund us..

china/uk/france/rusia are members of the ioa, so it co funds the stargate program

Davidtourniquet
March 9th, 2007, 03:35 AM
u are english right ? and you are calling the english arogant ? and britain is not srewed up maybe be where you are from but not from where i am does someone not have thr right to have pride in where thry are from and thier roots. the briish have a right to be proud of their own country so does all of europe they all have the right considering all of the history and they HAVE made the most advances ourt of any other country

I was actually quoting some of the stuff that was fired at my 8 point post. The first sentences in each paragraph are the response to the 8 points that another member of this forum posted.

HAL
March 9th, 2007, 08:06 AM
I have nothing against americans I just have a problem with them rewriting history to suit their own needs but tbh england does that to.

Major Tyler
March 9th, 2007, 08:17 AM
I have nothing against americans I just have a problem with them rewriting history to suit their own needs but tbh england does that to.Every country does that! You should try reading Turkmenistan's version of history. :S

jenks
March 9th, 2007, 08:39 AM
The first one might work.. but the second... I Don't remember any mention that they fund us..

A big chunk of the SCG funding comes from the IOA and I think all of the Atlantis funding does...

HAL
March 9th, 2007, 12:01 PM
Yep your right but it sucks history should be told truthfully :(


very few people know about the firebombing in ww2 against the germans that was much bigger than any attack they did on mainland england. Firestorms that went on for miles

Major Tyler
March 9th, 2007, 12:06 PM
very few people know about the firebombing in ww2 against the germans that was much bigger than any attack they did on mainland england. Firestorms that went on for milesI hope this is not bragging on your part. Being more indiscriminantly destructive than your enemy is nothing to brag about.

You'd be hard-pressed to find an American who is "proud" of the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings. Some of us might concede that it was necessary, but not a proud moment.

jenks
March 9th, 2007, 12:44 PM
Yep your right but it sucks history should be told truthfully :(


very few people know about the firebombing in ww2 against the germans that was much bigger than any attack they did on mainland england. Firestorms that went on for miles

If you're talking about Dresden then I'd have to disagree, it's very widely known.

HAL
March 9th, 2007, 02:39 PM
no not dresden


and I wasnt bragging im appalled by 80% of what my country has done in its existance slavery fire bombing not telling evacurating certain cities in ww2 when they knew exactly when they was gonna get bombed random stuff like that.


But then again im appalled by 80% of the human race as a whole :)

Metonic
March 9th, 2007, 03:04 PM
In sg-1 season 9 the Russians were given a 304 in order to get the gate out of there hands.

Since then area 51 has churned out the Apollo. That put the total 304's in current operation at 3 Daedalus, Odyssey and Apollo, Korolev having being destroyed.

Now given the well know de-valuing of the SGC by the American administration and the IOA shifting support and funds to Atlantis, surely the USAF would want member states of the IOA to pay for 304s and 302s to offset the massive cost of construction and operation???

SO British X304 HMS Trafalgar in Atlantis season 4?

I thought the 304 was a given to them so they didnt loan the gate to china. Or was it a trade gate for a ship?? Gate would be more valuable.

Orion's Star
March 9th, 2007, 05:14 PM
I am surprise you have not tried to do it to our greatest invention yet the Internet.

The Internet began in the United States, in the late 1950's, as a military application.

But don't let that stop you from claiming that the U.S. has stolen or cheated their way into most of their technological advancements.

squeakytoad
March 9th, 2007, 05:39 PM
I have nothing against americans I just have a problem with them rewriting history to suit their own needs but tbh england does that to.

You're kidding, right? Every nation twists their history to their advantage, most far more so than the United States.
On top of that, the United States allows freedom in its press, so there are thousands (if not millions) of different published versions of history from thousands of different perspectives floating around the United States. Most governments don't allow this freedom.

jenks
March 9th, 2007, 06:18 PM
The Internet began in the United States, in the late 1950's, as a military application.

But don't let that stop you from claiming that the U.S. has stolen or cheated their way into most of their technological advancements.

I think he's talking about the WWW, the internet was definatly invented in the US, but the world wide web as we know it was developed in Europe, not sure where exactly though...

Orion's Star
March 9th, 2007, 08:10 PM
I think he's talking about the WWW, the internet was definatly invented in the US, but the world wide web as we know it was developed in Europe, not sure where exactly though...

If that is indeed what he means, then he is mostly correct, or I should say, you are. Following the creation of ARPANET in 1969, a combination of British and American organizations really took it to the next step with the IPSS in 1978. Then there were several organizations, companies, and educational entities that continued to work on the idea. And finally at CERN, around the early 90's (which is on the border between France and Switzerland, by the way), I guess you could say created, but took the whole shebang and made it what we recognize as the Internet today, and the WWW.

But this is really becoming off-topic, so...

Davidtourniquet
March 10th, 2007, 02:58 AM
Yes the americans do try and twist history to make them seem greater.
Take the film U-571, that story was based on the british taking over a german sub. Churchill: the hollywood years, again trying to steal Britain's thunder over WWII.

squeakytoad
March 10th, 2007, 03:14 AM
Yes the americans do try and twist history to make them seem greater.
Take the film U-571, that story was based on the british taking over a german sub. Churchill: the hollywood years, again trying to steal Britain's thunder over WWII.

You do realize that "Churchill: The Hollywood Years" is a comedy and "U-571" is a cheesy fictional action drama written and directed by a failure of a director hated universally (America included) for his awful films?

You do realize how stupid it would make someone sound to accuse every citizen of a foreign nation of twisting history to make themselves better and cite a comedy and an awful low-budget film as examples of this?

Davidtourniquet
March 10th, 2007, 05:18 AM
It's still depicting history wrongly, regardless of what it is.

squeakytoad
March 10th, 2007, 05:46 AM
It's still depicting history wrongly, regardless of what it is.

Riiiiiight. Well, I'll tell one of my British friends to jot down on a piece of paper some completely inaccurate version of some event in history, and then I use that to say every single person in all of UK screws up history.

And it'll be depicting history wrong, regardless of what it is.

Army1990
March 10th, 2007, 06:07 AM
The Internet began in the United States, in the late 1950's, as a military application.

But don't let that stop you from claiming that the U.S. has stolen or cheated their way into most of their technological advancements.

We can't say about all of the technoligies is created by one country. There are lot of technologies which get in real life with a coalition of some country(like the F-35).This is why we call some of the technology what USA have, Western technology and not US technology.

But yes there are some technologies which stolen by the US. I don't say that only the US do this-->for example Russia. But it's true when the US find a technology in another country which is beat their technology in some onsite
they try to stole it. And if the media asked about this they only said that that country don't have enough advanced technology to stole--> and almost every people belive the story because they think only they have the most advenced technologies.

So i say not most of the US technology stolen from an another country, but there are some which stolen technology and there are some which not only researched by the USA.

squeakytoad
March 10th, 2007, 06:42 AM
We can't say about all of the technoligies is created by one country. There are lot of technologies which get in real life with a coalition of some country(like the F-35).This is why we call some of the technology what USA have, Western technology and not US technology.

But yes there are some technologies which stolen by the US. I don't say that only the US do this-->for example Russia. But it's true when the US find a technology in another country which is beat their technology in some onsite
they try to stole it. And if the media asked about this they only said that that country don't have enough advanced technology to stole--> and almost every people belive the story because they think only they have the most advenced technologies.

So i say not most of the US technology stolen from an another country, but there are some which stolen technology and there are some which not only researched by the USA.

Um... what?

After unscrambling my mind and shedding bitter tears over your painful grammar, I must say that I don't believe you have the slightest idea what you're saying. That entire post sounded like a thirteen year old child spitting back what they've heard their parents and the media say (and not understanding it at all), but messing it up so badly it just makes people wince.

Sparda
March 10th, 2007, 07:09 AM
same thing here in holland we had a radar in holland that could see the F117, and in our local airfield there was a plane show where the americans where invited but when the americans heard that we could see there little plane there where no american F117 on the show.
So where are doing fine in our little counrty.

squeakytoad
March 10th, 2007, 07:18 AM
same thing here in holland we had a radar in holland that could see the F117, and in our local airfield there was a plane show where the americans where invited but when the americans heard that we could see there little plane there where no american F117 on the show.
So where are doing fine in our little counrty.

I'll try to roughly translate this:

"There was a plane show in Holland. They invited some American pilots to the show. The American pilots heard they had a radar that could see there planes. The Americans didn't come."

Nah, I have to have translated that incorrectly. That couldn't possibly be what he said (after all, he claims to be twenty-one years old).

Army1990
March 10th, 2007, 08:30 AM
Um... what?

After unscrambling my mind and shedding bitter tears over your painful grammar, I must say that I don't believe you have the slightest idea what you're saying. That entire post sounded like a thirteen year old child spitting back what they've heard their parents and the media say (and not understanding it at all), but messing it up so badly it just makes people wince.

What?

Yeah, my english grammar isn't too good.
But what's this-->a thirteen year old child spitting back what they've heard their parents and the media say.

These are facts man!!! I haven't got any problem with the US, but when I hear things like that:THE US THE GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD!!, the US have the most brilliant scientist, all of US technology based on american research, I gonna angry!
The B2 design was from Germany(WW2). Your first spacerocket programs led by an ex nazi scientist.

I know you are just protect your country in these forums, but don't say things like that.
So don't tell me what is fact and what is not!!!!!!

Major Tyler
March 10th, 2007, 09:06 AM
So don't tell me what is fact and what is not!!!!!!Well someone needs to tell you...

Army1990
March 10th, 2007, 09:17 AM
MY LAST POST IN THIS ARGUMENT

All of the people all over the world are same(US, German, British etc.) and we need to live with each other in the real world and in Stargate. It's no use to argue, because every people say what is good for his country.

I think we need to go back to the topic:The topic name is:British 304 and not Which country the best

Sorry for my poor english grammar

kefke20
March 10th, 2007, 09:24 AM
same thing here in holland we had a radar in holland that could see the F117, and in our local airfield there was a plane show where the americans where invited but when the americans heard that we could see there little plane there where no american F117 on the show.
So where are doing fine in our little counrty.

ower radar teck is one of the best in the world. evan the US is using it

(en van welke holland ben je)

Davidtourniquet
March 10th, 2007, 03:29 PM
Riiiiiight. Well, I'll tell one of my British friends to jot down on a piece of paper some completely inaccurate version of some event in history, and then I use that to say every single person in all of UK screws up history.

And it'll be depicting history wrong, regardless of what it is.

Your missing the point completely. Imagine someone who knew u571 was a true story, but wasn't aware that who done it. Then they would probably come away from that thinking it was america. Yes saying something inaccurate about history is wrong, but especially wrong on making a worldwide film about it. Plus when did I ever say all americans.

Major Tyler
March 10th, 2007, 04:25 PM
Your missing the point completely. Imagine someone who knew u571 was a true story, but wasn't aware that who done it. Then they would probably come away from that thinking it was america. Yes saying something inaccurate about history is wrong, but especially wrong on making a worldwide film about it. Plus when did I ever say all americans.U-571 is a movie...movies (unless advertised as otherwise) are NOT real.
My little brothers knew that when they were six.

dosed150
March 10th, 2007, 04:36 PM
Wow...just wow. Whoever told you that, I just hope they don't claim to be an educator...what a shame.You can choose to believe what you want, but the fact is the Commonwealth of Nations (the successor to the British Empire) does not "control" any of its member states. Basically it is an historical relationship, rather than a domination. Countries like Canada and Australia agree to recognize the British monarch as a head of state...and that's it. Heads of State do not participate in governing, they just serve are a figurehead or a personification of the country...kind of like a hood ornament.

The only substantive difference is that Queen Elizabeth is on the coins of Commonwealth members. Technically, the Queen has to approve the appointment of Prime Ministers, but in any country other than the UK, this means nothing. If the Queen ever tried to block a democratically elected Prime Minister in Australia, they'd just leave the Commonwealth and be done with it. I think there is one example in Canada when the Governer-General (the Queen's official representative in Canada) attempted to veto a Prime Minister, and the Canadian government's response was, "Well in that case, you're fired." Needless to say the Governer-General decided to approve the appointment. ;)

By the way, I'm an American, and this is what education produces.

well thats pretty much how it works here in the uk as well while she does technically have that power she can't tell the government what to do at all she doesnt really have any power but she keeps the tourists coming so shes not totally useless

stealth planes arent actually as amazing as they once where i remember reading that during an exercise a rapier ground to air missile system got a lock and a simulated shoot down, im guessing anyone who actually knows about this feel free to correct me but a stealth plane isnt invisible to radar but has a very small radar signature like a bird but wouldnt it be a specific signature so they could be detected through radar that way if there werent so many small things in the air and the plane wasnt going fast

squeakytoad
March 10th, 2007, 04:57 PM
U-571 is a movie...movies (unless advertised as otherwise) are NOT real.
My little brothers knew that when they were six.

Thank you. I was having trouble explaining that one to him.


What?

Yeah, my english grammar isn't too good.
But what's this-->a thirteen year old child spitting back what they've heard their parents and the media say.

These are facts man!!! I haven't got any problem with the US, but when I hear things like that:THE US THE GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD!!, the US have the most brilliant scientist, all of US technology based on american research, I gonna angry!
The B2 design was from Germany(WW2). Your first spacerocket programs led by an ex nazi scientist.

I know you are just protect your country in these forums, but don't say things like that.
So don't tell me what is fact and what is not!!!!!!

Yeah, but Australia invented the nuclear missile first, and then the American stole it so they could nuke Russia. Russia got angry and sent their millions of killer bees to attack Holland. Winston Churchill (the queen of England later ate him) sent some killer hummingbirds to help. Then the all Americans united and made a movie about the incident claiming to have sent both the killer bees AND the killer hummingbirds. THE SCOUNDRELS!
(Oh, and don't tell me what is fact and what is not.)

Army1990
March 11th, 2007, 12:09 AM
Yeah, but Australia invented the nuclear missile first, and then the American stole it so they could nuke Russia. Russia got angry and sent their millions of killer bees to attack Holland. Winston Churchill (the queen of England later ate him) sent some killer hummingbirds to help. Then the all Americans united and made a movie about the incident claiming to have sent both the killer bees AND the killer hummingbirds. THE SCOUNDRELS!
(Oh, and don't tell me what is fact and what is not.)

FACTS-->The first US rocket programs led by an ex nazi scientist Wernher von Braun and his team members(It's intresting isn't it: The US hated the Nazis but when they need some new tech they "forget" about their scientist past.)
The US stealh planes design and the WW2 Horten airplanes design almost the same.
Yeah, and the US can't start Space Shuttles safely nearly 2-3 years, and your astronauts go to the ISS with Soyuz

As I said a hundred times before I haven't got any problem with the US, I just want to tell you not only the US have "hightech toys".

Davidtourniquet
March 11th, 2007, 12:20 AM
Yes but U-571 is a true story. Regardless if it was a movie or not, it happened but not by the country that it was depicted as in that movie. Don't be stupid, of course i know movies aren't real. But both of you are missing the point entirely, america (aka the writers of the film u-571) took credit for something their country didn't do.
But what you need to understand is your "great nation" isn't as great as you make it out to be.
I haven't got a problem with most americans, just those that are stupid enough to believe that every great accomplishment in the world was due to america.

squeakytoad
March 11th, 2007, 01:05 AM
Yes but U-571 is a true story. Regardless if it was a movie or not, it happened but not by the country that it was depicted as in that movie. Don't be stupid, of course i know movies aren't real. But both of you are missing the point entirely, america (aka the writers of the film u-571) took credit for something their country didn't do.
But what you need to understand is your "great nation" isn't as great as you make it out to be.
I haven't got a problem with most americans, just those that are stupid enough to believe that every great accomplishment in the world was due to america.

So you're saying these writers speak for all America? So if I get some of my friends in England to get together, write a script, and film a movie in which the British are performing an historical American deed, then, by your logic all England will take credit for something their country didn't do?
You don't know how hard I'm trying to keep from calling you something incredibly rude and harsh.


FACTS-->The first US rocket programs led by an ex nazi scientist Wernher von Braun and his team members(It's intresting isn't it:

Ex-Nazi. He renounced the horrible deeds of the Nazis, and even wrote a confession to using slave labor in the concentration camps.
He later became a citizen of the United States.


The US hated the Nazis but when they need some new tech they "forget" about their scientist past.)

We "forgot" all of Germany's past. Were we to execute or imprison every single Nazi who reformed after the war, we would've destroyed half of Germany's population.
Nearly everyone in Germany supported the Nazi regime. Yet after the war, America gave great aid to Germany, helping to rebuild it from ashes. It helped feed and aid millions of Germans (many of whom were former Nazis), regardless of whether they were great engineers who could provide us great scientific advances or whether they were week adolescents with nothing but hunger.



As I said a hundred times before I haven't got any problem with the US, I just want to tell you not only the US have "hightech toys".

I don't recall anyone saying that "only the US has high-tech toys".

Army1990
March 11th, 2007, 01:52 AM
Yet after the war, America gave great aid to Germany, helping to rebuild it from ashes. It helped feed and aid millions of Germans (many of whom were former Nazis), regardless of whether they were great engineers who could provide us great scientific advances or whether they were week adolescents with nothing but hunger.


Yes, and I thanks for the US.It was a good step, because if they punish Germany for the war just like the Antant in WW1, maybe germany would started another war some years after. And I'm thank for liberate almost all of Europe.

But I think we really need to speak about the topic now-->British 304.

Davidtourniquet
March 11th, 2007, 03:48 AM
So you're saying these writers speak for all America? So if I get some of my friends in England to get together, write a script, and film a movie in which the British are performing an historical American deed, then, by your logic all England will take credit for something their country didn't do?
You don't know how hard I'm trying to keep from calling you something incredibly rude and harsh.


Well call me rude and harsh then, it'll just prove my point that some americans can't see further than their noses.
The implications of depicting history wrong in movies can have an affect on people, remember not everyone knows what went on in the war. Ok, let me rephrase it the writers (who were american) took a piece of history and twisted to make america look good.

squeakytoad
March 11th, 2007, 03:54 AM
Well call me rude and harsh then, it'll just prove my point that some americans can't see further than their noses.

I wasn't going to call you rude and harsh. I was going to call you something rude and harsh. Along the lines of idiot, possibly ruder, but I'm not the type.


The implications of depicting history wrong in movies can have an affect on people, remember not everyone knows what went on in the war. Ok, let me rephrase it the writers (who were american) took a piece of history and twisted to make america look good.

Well, big deal. Those three Americans twisted history to make a movie the way they wanted. Go send them some hate mail.
That doesn't have anything to do with the British getting an X-304 or the current line of conversation.

Cban
March 11th, 2007, 08:28 AM
I wasn't going to call you rude and harsh. I was going to call you something rude and harsh. Along the lines of idiot, possibly ruder, but I'm not the type.



Well, big deal. Those three Americans twisted history to make a movie the way they wanted. Go send them some hate mail.
.

all you are doing squeet toad is turning more people against you because you and other americans think they are far supperior in every way that your country is better then england and europe look at it this way. 1)with out england and our acievements you would not be a powerful country( there wudnt even be an america) 2) the eu hold more power than the us because we run most of the world economy and have more influence 3) americans do twist most films to make them seem beter in the eye of the world to try and make them look better considering the are not liked by most of the world precisly for that reason 4) europe created the modern industrial world all the major world acievements were made in or by europeans and becasue of europeans i hope this shuts you up so we can get to talk about the origional subject and not critisising other countries

Major Tyler
March 11th, 2007, 08:36 AM
Look...the people of the world should be happy that the U.S. is as successful as it is, rather than revile us out of bitterness/envy/frustration/whatever.

The U.S. in an immigrant nation...we wouldn't be where we are today without people from all over the world coming here to add their own greatness and unique talents to the whole. "America" is not seperate and distinct from the world, it is made up of the world.

Americas is proof that if the world came to together and put their differences aside (without sacrificing their wonderful diversity of culture), this world would be a much better place.

Americans aren't better than British/Germans/Dutch/French/etc./et al...we ARE British/Germans/Dutch/French/etc./et al.