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Ripple in Space
February 23rd, 2007, 05:28 PM
I think the opening sequence will be quite similar to S3's, except it will include some of the First Strike CGI. The credits will go:

:sheppard:
:teyla:
:ronan:
with :sam: as Lt. Colonel Samantha Carter
and :mckay: as Dr. Rodney McKay

But I'd literally pay US Dollars if (in the season premiere) they would:


cut between the CGI/Action Sequences and clips of Carter for the first 10-seconds
then "Amanda Tapping" over an embossed image of Carter for 4-seconds
followed by another 10-seconds of Carter & CGI/Action Sequences
then 2-seconds of an embossed cast image of Shep, McKay, Ronan & Teyla with "with Joe Flannigan Rachel Luttrel Jason Momoa David Hewlett displayed under their respective images
2-seconds of a panning clip of Atlantis
closing with a clip of Carter firing a P90

all just to piss off the entire fanbase.

prion
February 23rd, 2007, 05:39 PM
I think the opening sequence will be quite similar to S3's, except it will include some of the First Strike CGI. The credits will go:

:sheppard:
:teyla:
:ronan:
with :sam: as Lt. Colonel Samantha Carter
and :mckay: as Dr. Rodney McKay

But I'd literally pay US Dollars if (in the season premiere) they would:


cut between the CGI/Action Sequences and clips of Carter for the first 10-seconds
then "Amanda Tapping" over an embossed image of Carter for 4-seconds
followed by another 10-seconds of Carter & CGI/Action Sequences
then 2-seconds of an embossed cast image of Shep, McKay, Ronan & Teyla with "with Joe Flannigan Rachel Luttrel Jason Momoa David Hewlett displayed under their respective images
2-seconds of a panning clip of Atlantis
closing with a clip of Carter firing a P90

all just to piss off the entire fanbase.

Heh, you're an expert at it! been taking lessons from joe mallozzi? ;)

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 05:59 PM
I think the opening sequence will be quite similar to S3's...

I hope not. Hopefully it will be more like SG-1's.

Gen_J_O'Neill
February 23rd, 2007, 06:05 PM
It wouldn't pi** off the entire fan base! lol

But even as a carter fan, it would be c**p! Afterall it is stargate Atlantis, Not stargate Carter!

I'd have to agree with you on the first part, Carter will prebably take PM place in the intro.

Daniel Jackson
February 23rd, 2007, 06:17 PM
Is it confirmed that Flanigan (Sheppard), Hewlett (McKay), Luttrell (Teyla), and Momoa (Ronin) will all return as regulars?

Will Tapping be in the opening credits? I mean, she's in 14 episodes. When she was in 15 episodes of SG-1 Season 9, she was in the opening credits, so she might as well be in SG:A Season 4's opening credits.

I suspect the billing will go like this...

Joe Flanigan
Rachel Luttrell
Jason Momoa
Amanda Tapping as "Col. Carter"
David Hewlett as "Dr. McKay"

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 06:20 PM
Yes, it's pretty much given that everyone but TH will be returning as regular. And I agree with the credit lineup.

Uber
February 23rd, 2007, 06:20 PM
I think the opening sequence will be quite similar to S3's, except it will include some of the First Strike CGI. The credits will go:

:sheppard:
:teyla:
:ronan:
with :sam: as Lt. Colonel Samantha Carter
and :mckay: as Dr. Rodney McKayI'm guessing you're right here. I think Amanda will be added either before or after David.
But I'd literally pay US Dollars if (in the season premiere) they would:


cut between the CGI/Action Sequences and clips of Carter for the first 10-seconds
then "Amanda Tapping" over an embossed image of Carter for 4-seconds
followed by another 10-seconds of Carter & CGI/Action Sequences
then 2-seconds of an embossed cast image of Shep, McKay, Ronan & Teyla with "with Joe Flannigan Rachel Luttrel Jason Momoa David Hewlett displayed under their respective images
2-seconds of a panning clip of Atlantis
closing with a clip of Carter firing a P90

all just to piss off the entire fanbase.lol

Gen_J_O'Neill
February 23rd, 2007, 06:30 PM
Will Tapping be in the opening credits?

Yep, JM confirmed it on his blog.


I suspect the billing will go like this...

Joe Flanigan
Rachel Luttrell
Jason Momoa
Amanda Tapping as "Col. Carter"
David Hewlett as "Dr. McKay"

Agreed!

Daniel Jackson
February 23rd, 2007, 06:35 PM
No one freak out, but since Tapping is going to be creditted as a main character, I think it's obvious Carter is replacing Weir as leader of the expedition. :weir: :sam:

Ripple in Space
February 23rd, 2007, 11:08 PM
No one freak out, but since Tapping is going to be creditted as a main character, I think it's obvious Carter is replacing Weir as leader of the expedition. :weir: :sam:

I kind of doubt it because I don't get the impression that Amanda wants to do Atlantis S5, so why would TPTB risk making the role of Expedition Leader a revolving door.

Plus they expect Sam/Amanda to be a major player in the SG-1 movie "franchise," and it would be harder to explain her presence/absence if she was leading Atlantis.

Not to mention the fact that her & Shep are the same rank, and they can't promote her again, because then :cameron: would have to start taking orders from her in the movies.

talyn2k1
February 24th, 2007, 03:14 AM
I kind of doubt it because I don't get the impression that Amanda wants to do Atlantis S5, so why would TPTB risk making the role of Expedition Leader a revolving door.

Plus they expect Sam/Amanda to be a major player in the SG-1 movie "franchise," and it would be harder to explain her presence/absence if she was leading Atlantis.

Not to mention the fact that her & Shep are the same rank, and they can't promote her again, because then :cameron: would have to start taking orders from her in the movies.

Plus JM has stated that she will be in more of a support role. How true this is remains to be seen but I think they`ll probably reduce the role of expedition leader down to recurring, leaving Torri in that role but having her on alot less episodes as there are alot of eps where she is just wasting screentime.

Then Carter will be supporting the military aspect of Atlantis which I think will come more to the front of S4 than exploration.

And don't forget that just because AT is in 14 episodes, that doesn't mean that TH will only be in 6 - there will no doubt be some crossover.
I think the reducing of TH to recurring is more of a money saving action than anything else as they won't have to pay her for any eps she is not in whereas at the moment they are shoehorning (to borrow a phrase from the anti-Carters :)) her into episodes that she has no place in just to get their money's worth out of her contract as she gets paid for the full 20 eps whether she is actually in them or not.

Falcon Horus
February 24th, 2007, 06:47 AM
Well Ripple in Space, I'd have to say if your version of the opening credits were the ones we should be expecting, it would make it easier for me to edit AT out of it and replace her with TH. Or replace her with stuff from the S3 credits.

But seeing that's not going to be the case, I'm guessing she will be at the end, similar like DH ... And Amanda Tapping as Lt.Cl. Samantha Carter...which makes it again easier for me to edit her out of the opening credits.

jenks
February 24th, 2007, 06:58 AM
I can't believe people even care, I mean, does it really matter?

Commander Ivanova
February 24th, 2007, 09:43 AM
I can't believe people even care, I mean, does it really matter?

Not to you perhaps, but certainly to those people who have already posted. And probably some others.
Every other aspect of S4 is being speculated over wildly, so why not the opening credits?

jenks
February 24th, 2007, 10:27 AM
Not to you perhaps, but certainly to those people who have already posted. And probably some others.
Every other aspect of S4 is being speculated over wildly, so why not the opening credits?

Because they make no difference to the show at all, shall we have a debate about what colour socks carter wears aswell?

Detox
February 24th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Because they make no difference to the show at all, shall we have a debate about what colour socks carter wears aswell?

I think we should!

http://forum.gateworld.net/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=81

Ripple in Space
February 24th, 2007, 12:39 PM
I think we should!

http://forum.gateworld.net/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=81

:D , I second that.

Atlantis1
February 24th, 2007, 01:11 PM
No one freak out, but since Tapping is going to be creditted as a main character, I think it's obvious Carter is replacing Weir as leader of the expedition. :weir: :sam:

Please allow me to at least hope this won't happen. I'm staying opimistic with SGA but it is hard sometimes. :(

Seven
April 8th, 2007, 01:40 AM
I can't believe people even care, I mean, does it really matter?

Yes because it will tell us what we want to know before the first scene is shown.

jenks
April 8th, 2007, 03:22 AM
Yes because it will tell us what we want to know before the first scene is shown.

Isn't the first scene usually shown before the opening sequence?

Steve_the_Wraith
April 8th, 2007, 04:45 AM
Plus if its anything like season 2, the changed opening sequence will take a few episodes to come into effect

ReganX
April 8th, 2007, 04:47 AM
Is it confirmed that Flanigan (Sheppard), Hewlett (McKay), Luttrell (Teyla), and Momoa (Ronin) will all return as regulars?

Will Tapping be in the opening credits? I mean, she's in 14 episodes. When she was in 15 episodes of SG-1 Season 9, she was in the opening credits, so she might as well be in SG:A Season 4's opening credits.

I suspect the billing will go like this...

Joe Flanigan
Rachel Luttrell
Jason Momoa
Amanda Tapping as "Col. Carter"
David Hewlett as "Dr. McKay"

I'd say that AT will either be in the second spot - I imagine that's what her contract Season Eleven stated - or at the second from last spot with a "with".

Presumably, the first, third, fourth and last spots are already covered in the other actors' contracts.

prion
April 8th, 2007, 09:31 AM
I'd say that AT will either be in the second spot - I imagine that's what her contract Season Eleven stated - or at the second from last spot with a "with".

Presumably, the first, third, fourth and last spots are already covered in the other actors' contracts.

This it how it should read
Joe
Rachel
Jason
then Tapping
then David at the end.

It doens't matter what her slot on SG1 was; she's new to SGA and I'd hope they'd respect the work the SGA actors have put in for three years, but then considering how they just booted two characters, maybe they don't.

Gonna suck not to see Torri or Paul in the credits.

Falcon Horus
April 8th, 2007, 12:29 PM
I think AT gets the end spot... And AT as SC.

Easier for me to edit her out of the openingcredits.

ReganX
April 8th, 2007, 12:32 PM
This it how it should read
Joe
Rachel
Jason
then Tapping
then David at the end.

It doens't matter what her slot on SG1 was; she's new to SGA and I'd hope they'd respect the work the SGA actors have put in for three years, but then considering how they just booted two characters, maybe they don't.

Gonna suck not to see Torri or Paul in the credits.

I was thinking more in terms of her contract; if second slot in the credits was included in it, it may transfer over to Atlantis, especially since she has put a decade of work into the Stargate franchise.

Since Torri Higginson is no longer to be a regular, the second spot in the credits is vacant so I wouldn't discount it as an option until we've seen the Season Four opening credits.

ReganX
April 8th, 2007, 12:33 PM
I think AT gets the end spot... And AT as SC.

Easier for me to edit her out of the openingcredits.

Last spot in the credits may very well be part of David Hewlett's contract.

Uber
April 8th, 2007, 12:34 PM
I think AT gets the end spot... And AT as SC.

Easier for me to edit her out of the openingcredits.*blink*

You're actually going to take time to edit an actor out of the opening credits???

*blink blink*

O-kay.

*backs away slowly*

Falcon Horus
April 8th, 2007, 01:08 PM
Last spot in the credits may very well be part of David Hewlett's contract.

Possibly. But AT has more years over him, so she could claim last place as her own.


*blink*
You're actually going to take time to edit an actor out of the opening credits???
*blink blink*
O-kay.
*backs away slowly*

Hell yeah, it's a piece of cake to do. And I can. :p

Uber
April 8th, 2007, 01:10 PM
Possibly. But AT has more years over him, so she could claim last place as her own.

Hell yeah, it's a piece of cake to do. And I can. :pSure. I can do pretty much anything with video editing software too...it's just a matter of...well...what's the point? lol

But...you know...whatever. :)

Falcon Horus
April 8th, 2007, 01:15 PM
Sure. I can do pretty much anything with video editing software too...it's just a matter of...well...what's the point? lol

But...you know...whatever. :)

It's my way of slowly accepting her presence. I can tolerate her presence in the episodes in which I can't start cutting and editing since well... I'd miss half of the show probably. But I can change the opening credits. I have the power to do so.

Call it psychological... :cool:

Not like I'll do this with every episode, but one time is enough to skip the rest, I guess....

prion
April 8th, 2007, 01:16 PM
Possibly. But AT has more years over him, so she could claim last place as her own.



Hell yeah, it's a piece of cake to do. And I can. :p

Doesn't matter that she had ten years on SG1. This is SGA and they should (one would hope) respect the folks already working on the show. After all, she's only there in a support role capacity, so said JM (snort).

But the front and end credits are negotiated for (aka fought for).

Falcon Horus
April 8th, 2007, 01:18 PM
But the front and end credits are negotiated for (aka fought for).

Oh, I see. Well, then may the best man/woman win the last spot, since the front is already taken, unless... They all go down one place and AT gets first dips.

ReganX
April 8th, 2007, 01:21 PM
Possibly. But AT has more years over him, so she could claim last place as her own.

Credit spot is something negotiated in contracts; if David Hewlett's contract specifies that he is in the last spot with an "and", chances are that's what he'll get unless he, his agent and TPTB can come up with a mutually acceptable agreement - ie, David Hewlett is moved up to second spot in the credits and Amanda goes at the end with the "and".

Mitchell82
April 8th, 2007, 02:30 PM
Credit spot is something negotiated in contracts; if David Hewlett's contract specifies that he is in the last spot with an "and", chances are that's what he'll get unless he, his agent and TPTB can come up with a mutually acceptable agreement - ie, David Hewlett is moved up to second spot in the credits and Amanda goes at the end with the "and".

Personally it doesnt matter where she is on the credits. I watch it for the show not the opening sequence.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 8th, 2007, 02:35 PM
im thinking it would go like this

Joe Flanigan
Amanda Tapping
Rachel luttrell
Jason Momoa
David Hewlett

Mitchell82
April 8th, 2007, 02:37 PM
im thinking it would go like this

Joe Flanigan
Amanda Tapping
Rachel luttrell
Jason Momoa
David Hewlett

Very possible.

ReganX
April 8th, 2007, 02:41 PM
im thinking it would go like this

Joe Flanigan
Amanda Tapping
Rachel luttrell
Jason Momoa
David Hewlett

That or


Joe Flanigan
Rachel Luttrell
Jason Momoa
with
Amanda Tapping
as Colonel Samantha Carter
and
David Hewlett
as Dr McKay

would be my best bet.

Time will tell, I suppose.

Mitchell82
April 8th, 2007, 02:42 PM
That or


Joe Flanigan
Rachel Luttrell
Jason Momoa
with
Amanda Tapping
as Colonel Samantha Carter
and
David Hewlett
as Dr McKay

would be my best bet.

Time will tell, I suppose.

Even better and possibaly more likely.

nonniemous
April 8th, 2007, 04:47 PM
<snip>
It doens't matter what her slot on SG1 was; she's new to SGA and I'd hope they'd respect the work the SGA actors have put in for three years, but then considering how they just booted two characters, maybe they don't.

Because they have shown so much respect for the actors in the series so far, yes. :rolleyes:


Gonna suck not to see Torri or Paul in the credits.

:(

As for the end spot, who knows? DH may have been required to give that up as well. AT's got seniority and she's from SG1, which trumps anything Atlantis has to offer. And as RCC said, "Amanda's the right person to bring into any situation." So who knows? They could even give her front billing, like RDA had as long as he was a series regular.

In the end, it's not up to the actors, it's going to be TPTB who decide, and as they're already doing in the press for SGA, they're probably going to feature AT as prominently in the credits as they can. They'd make it easier on everyone if they'd just put Sam's name into the title of the show.

Seven
April 9th, 2007, 12:28 AM
Isn't the first scene usually shown before the opening sequence?

I am imagining they would do a "Previously on Stargate Atlantis...." opening and as we know Weir is injured it is doubtful we will see her in any of the pre opening sequence scenes, therefore I was thinking that the titles will be the first indication of Weir's status.

Celcool
April 9th, 2007, 12:43 AM
I think AT gets the end spot... And AT as SC.

Easier for me to edit her out of the openingcredits.
LOL, I want this for the Elizabeth episodes I'm gonna watch. ;)

Willow'sCat
April 9th, 2007, 12:54 AM
I don't really care anymore.

If Carter turns out to be first or second that is fine with me, although it would be a brave move. At the end of the day McKay/Hewlett will be in the title credits and that is all that matters to me. Be it "And...." or just his gorgeous face and name I don't care, he will be there. :) ;)

Falcon Horus
April 9th, 2007, 02:32 AM
LOL, I want this for the Elizabeth episodes I'm gonna watch. ;)

Done deal. Of course, it will mean Torri back in the credits.

Celcool
April 9th, 2007, 02:44 AM
Done deal. Of course, it will mean Torri back in the credits.
Thanks. The way it should be. :weiranime17:

Ripple in Space
April 9th, 2007, 12:50 PM
If Carter turns out to be first or second that is fine with me

Amanda won't take first. The newest Atlantis promotions say, "Joe Flanigan in Stargate Atlantis."

Falcon Horus
April 9th, 2007, 01:49 PM
Amanda won't take first. The newest Atlantis promotions say, "Joe Flanigan in Stargate Atlantis."

Yeah, but that's season 3 still...

ReganX
April 9th, 2007, 03:40 PM
Chances are, TPTB will be treading carefully to avoid antagonizing any fans more than necessary. I don't see them downgrading JF or moving DH from his special slot - for starters, their contracts may not allow this.

The most likely placement for AT is second spot or second from the end with a "with".

Mitchell82
April 9th, 2007, 07:43 PM
Chances are, TPTB will be treading carefully to avoid antagonizing any fans more than necessary. I don't see them downgrading JF or moving DH from his special slot - for starters, their contracts may not allow this.

The most likely placement for AT is second spot or second from the end with a "with".

Agreed. I think it's more likely she'll be second to last.

Killdeer
June 10th, 2007, 12:04 PM
I'm reviving this thread because of a discussion on the "How is SG-1 Taking Over?" thread about whether AT is going to take TH's place in the credits as lead actress.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=44476&page=20

Personally, I don't think so (I think she'll take PM's place) but some interesting arguments have been made. Rather than start a new thread, I'm reviving this one. The point of the discussion is that if AT is truly lead actress, it's very hard to imagine her role as "supporting", to which I would agree.


What do you all think? Will she be lead actress, as TH was? Should she be lead actress? And IF she is, what does that imply for the show?

PG15
June 10th, 2007, 12:45 PM
I like to hear these interesting arguments.

Personally, it wouldn't make sense that Carter will get Weir's spot because:

1. Carter is only in 14 episodes.
2. JM himself said that her character will be not unlike Landry.
3. She will be a supporting character.

Falcon Horus
June 10th, 2007, 12:53 PM
As I said in the other thread it would be a slap in the face for Torri and her fans, as well as the Rachel-fans, if Amanda got listed in TH's spot instead of the end.

And I stick to the idea of editing her out of the credits.

Something else then, I don't see why she should have the second slot anyway. When Michael Shanks came back in season 7 of SG1, he was in the end-slot as well. Why would that be any different for Amanda in SGA? She is by far not as important as any of the other cast-members who have been on the show for 3 years now.

Killdeer
June 10th, 2007, 12:58 PM
When Michael came back, he got the ending spot in the credits -

"Michael Shanks as Dr Daniel Jackson"

which is what DH has now. The way I understand it is that particular spot is the second most important next to the lead spot. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's unlikely that DH would be giving up that spot if it's really that important.

PG15
June 10th, 2007, 01:00 PM
The last place in indeed very important.

Killdeer
June 10th, 2007, 01:08 PM
Something else then, I don't see why she should have the second slot anyway. When Michael Shanks came back in season 7 of SG1, he was in the end-slot as well. Why would that be any different for Amanda in SGA? She is by far not as important as any of the other cast-members who have been on the show for 3 years now.

I agree with you that she shouldn't have the second spot. With Michael, it was a little different. He'd been in the second spot for five years. When he left, Amanda took his place as I recall. When he returned, rather than stick him back in his old place and push Amanda back down to third, they apparently negotiated for the last place listing, "and MS as DJ" which from what everyone is saying, is also a prestigous spot in the credits. I can't remember what they did when CB joined. Was she before or after MS?

chocdoc
June 10th, 2007, 01:21 PM
I agree with you that she shouldn't have the second spot. With Michael, it was a little different. He'd been in the second spot for five years. When he left, Amanda took his place as I recall. When he returned, rather than stick him back in his old place and push Amanda back down to third, they apparently negotiated for the last place listing, "and MS as DJ" which from what everyone is saying, is also a prestigous spot in the credits. I can't remember what they did when CB joined. Was she before or after MS?

That's what I thought too. Leaving AT in the second lead spot and then having MS in the "and" position allows them both to have prestigious places in the credits. This way, AT didn't have to lose her upgrade in the credits when MS came back. What I have read about credits is that the top spot and the second lead spot are the most coveted in that order, and they are followed by an "and" spot. (I've also read that the "and" can mean a lot of things, depending on the situation.)

I don't know where AT will be placed in the credits. I've been thinking that she will be where PM was so that RL would now be in the second lead, and JM and DH would stay in their places.

vaberella
June 10th, 2007, 02:38 PM
I think the opening sequence will be quite similar to S3's, except it will include some of the First Strike CGI. The credits will go:

:sheppard:
:teyla:
:ronan:
with :sam: as Lt. Colonel Samantha Carter
and :mckay: as Dr. Rodney McKay

But I'd literally pay US Dollars if (in the season premiere) they would:


cut between the CGI/Action Sequences and clips of Carter for the first 10-seconds
then "Amanda Tapping" over an embossed image of Carter for 4-seconds
followed by another 10-seconds of Carter & CGI/Action Sequences
then 2-seconds of an embossed cast image of Shep, McKay, Ronan & Teyla with "with Joe Flannigan Rachel Luttrel Jason Momoa David Hewlett displayed under their respective images
2-seconds of a panning clip of Atlantis
closing with a clip of Carter firing a P90

all just to piss off the entire fanbase.


I have no problems with that set up as long as they change the theme along with this new lay out. Also, as long as Carter is just playing second string to the main's and the team in general---they could do what they want. I'm one of those people who leaves the room when the theme comes on, I hate it. So I don't really know the full set up, I normally show up when David Hewlett's name shows up.

Major Tyler
June 10th, 2007, 02:55 PM
The last place in indeed very important.Top billing and end billing are the two most important spots. Since Joe is the "show-runner" he'll get top billing, and I believe David's contact stipulates his having end billing. Tapping will likely get the second-to-end billing, which in the third most prestigious spot (when it includes a "with" or an "and" along with the character name).

Killdeer
June 10th, 2007, 03:38 PM
Top billing and end billing are the two most important spots. Since Joe is the "show-runner" he'll get top billing, and I believe David's contact stipulates his having end billing. Tapping will likely get the second-to-end billing, which in the third most prestigious spot (when it includes a "with" or an "and" along with the character name).

So in that situation would she be considered a lead character, or lead actress for the show?

PG15
June 10th, 2007, 03:43 PM
Nope. She'll just be an important supporting character, like Beckett or Landry.

Major Tyler
June 10th, 2007, 03:44 PM
So in that situation would she be considered a lead character, or lead actress for the show?She would be considered a lead character in the second-to-end billing slot. If she were a lead actress (below Flanigan) she would get the second billing slot after him.

In other words, Michael Shanks and David Hewlett don't get end billing because they're big-shot Hollywood everyone-knows-their-name actors, they get it because their characters are considered highly important.

Killdeer
June 10th, 2007, 03:46 PM
I can't remember. Did Beckett and Landry have the "PM as Carson Beckett" and "Beau Bridges as Hank Landry" with their credits? I'm not at a place where I can check right now.

PG15
June 10th, 2007, 03:49 PM
She would be considered a lead character in the second-to-end billing slot.

What do you mean by "lead"? I mean, I don't think Carson nor Landry can be considered "lead" characters, as I said in the post above yours.

Major Tyler
June 10th, 2007, 03:50 PM
What do you mean by "lead"? I mean, I don't think Carson nor Landry can be considered "lead" characters, as I said in the post above yours."Lead" just means "important." You can be important without being in every scene.

PG15
June 10th, 2007, 03:51 PM
I can't remember. Did Beckett and Landry have the "PM as Carson Beckett" and "Beau Bridges as Hank Landry" with their credits? I'm not at a place where I can check right now.

Yes for Paul, but Beau only got "With Beau Bridges".

Killdeer
June 10th, 2007, 03:53 PM
"Lead" just means "important." You can be important without being in every scene.

Well, here's my issue with that, and the reason I brought this thread up in the first place, because this was being argued on another thread. If she's considered a "lead", that puts her on an importance level with JF and DH, and puts her above RL and JM. It kind of blows the whole "supporting character" thing out of the water. At least IMO. I don't see that a character can be a "lead" and be a "supporting character" at the same time.

PG15
June 10th, 2007, 03:55 PM
Did anybody read my post? :confused:

If she gets that spot, she'll have the same significance, opening wise, as Carson and Landry, neither of which dominated their respective shows.

Killdeer
June 10th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Did anybody read my post? :confused:

If she gets that spot, she'll have the same significance, opening wise, as Carson and Landry, neither of which dominated their respective shows.

I wasn't arguing with you. Major Tyler just seems to have a different interpretation of that spot. Which is what I was responding to. If it's not a lead spot, then I don't have an issue with it.

Major Tyler
June 10th, 2007, 04:17 PM
I wasn't arguing with you. Major Tyler just seems to have a different interpretation of that spot. Which is what I was responding to. If it's not a lead spot, then I don't have an issue with it.I guess maybe the word "central character" might be better than "lead."

Carter can still be in a "supporting" role in the sense of her relations with the other characters, while still being a "central" character to the show itself.

Killdeer
June 10th, 2007, 04:21 PM
I guess maybe the word "central character" might be better than "lead."

Carter can still be in a "supporting" role in the sense of her relations with the other characters, while still being a "central" character to the show itself.

Ummm. Sorry, still having a problem. In fact, I think that's even worse. To me, a "central character" is one the show kind of revolves around. I wouldn't call Beckett or Landry or Hammond "central characters". Maybe we have different definitions?

EDIT: I googled for a definition of "central character". I found this. Obviously, this is just one person's definition, but I would think it would be pretty standard.


The Central Character
Quite simply, the Central Character is the one who is most memorable. Usually this is because he or she gets the most Media Real Estate (the most pages, lines of dialog or screen time).
http://www.writersstore.com/article.php?articles_id=199


By this definition, IF Carter is a "central character", then everyone who has been upset about her dominating the show is completely justified.

Falcon Horus
June 10th, 2007, 04:32 PM
The Central Character
Quite simply, the Central Character is the one who is most memorable. Usually this is because he or she gets the most Media Real Estate (the most pages, lines of dialog or screen time).
http://www.writersstore.com/article.php?articles_id=199

Sounds like the perfect definition of McKay to be honest.

And if this is what we have to expect Carter to be, goddess help me I'll throw something at the screen.

Major Tyler
June 10th, 2007, 04:41 PM
Whatever our definitions or preferences, Samantha Carter is big guns in the Stargate Universe, and TPTB wouldn't bring her over unless they had something important for her to do. Whether the things she does are behind the scenes or in our faces, she will be there.

TPTB wouldn't have one of Stargate's most vital characters working in Random Lab #3 to be referenced for five minutes every other episode. Whatever she does will be important and necessary for the plots.

chocdoc
June 10th, 2007, 04:54 PM
She would be considered a lead character in the second-to-end billing slot. If she were a lead actress (below Flanigan) she would get the second billing slot after him.

In other words, Michael Shanks and David Hewlett don't get end billing because they're big-shot Hollywood everyone-knows-their-name actors, they get it because their characters are considered highly important.


I don't think that MS got the "and" spot because his character is considered highly important -- at least he is no more important than Jack and Sam. Daniel was no more highly important when he came back than in the first five seasons. It was a way to keep AT in the second lead and still allow MS to have a prestigious position after he came back. The "and" position does not always mean the second billing. I think this was a great compromise so that AT would continue to be second lead and yet not just put MS in the last position when he returned.

Major Tyler
June 10th, 2007, 05:15 PM
I don't think that MS got the "and" spot because his character is considered highly important -- at least he is no more important than Jack and Sam. Daniel was no more highly important when he came back than in the first five seasons. It was a way to keep AT in the second lead and still allow MS to have a prestigious position after he came back. The "and" position does not always mean the second billing. I think this was a great compromise so that AT would continue to be second lead and yet not just put MS in the last position when he returned.Where does Chris factor into your little scenario?

chocdoc
June 10th, 2007, 05:19 PM
Where does Chris factor into your little scenario?

Chris is great and so is Teal'c, but he has not had as many storylines as the other three over the seasons, but obviously Teal's is another important character.

Killdeer
June 10th, 2007, 05:45 PM
Here's how the cast lineup went for SG-1 S10 and Atlantis S3.

Ben Browder
Amanda Tapping
Chris Judge
Claudia Black
with Beau Bridges
and Michael Shanks as Daniel Jackson

Joe Flanigan
Torri Higginson
Rachel Luttrell
Jason Momoa
with Paul McGillion as Dr Carson Beckett
and David Hewlitt as Dr McKay (It's interesting that it's Dr McKay, not Dr Rodney McKay)

So... the way I see it.... AT could take two places. She could replace TH in the lineup, which would indeed make her lead actress. Or she could replace PM "with Amanda Tapping as Col. Samantha Carter". At least as I define the terms, I don't think that would make Carter a lead or a central character. Neither Landry or Carson came under that category, IMO. Both could definitely be considered supporting characters, and if AT takes that spot I think Carter can legitimately be called a supporting character for Atlantis.

I think this second opinion is more likely - just my opinion. However, if those who believe she will take TH's place are correct....well, then we're looking at a totally different scenario IMO, and personally I won't want to hear another word about her character being "supporting." She held that place on SG-1 and no one called Carter supporting.

Uber
June 10th, 2007, 05:54 PM
I think the word "support" means different things for cast and characters.

Torri may have been the lead actress, but her character was a supporting character. With rare exception, Weir's role on base was in supporting the team...which was the primary focus of the show.

So it just may be that Amanda the actress is called the lead actress while Carter the character's role is like Weir's and primarily supports the team.

Agent_Dark
June 10th, 2007, 06:02 PM
God, who cares :| Opening credits are for fast forwarding anyway....

Killdeer
June 10th, 2007, 06:19 PM
I think the word "support" means different things for cast and characters.

Torri may have been the lead actress, but her character was a supporting character. With rare exception, Weir's role on base was in supporting the team...which was the primary focus of the show.

So it just may be that Amanda the actress is called the lead actress while Carter the character's role is like Weir's and primarily supports the team.

Welll.....:(

I just undid everything I typed. Anyway, what I was saying is that it's possible that you're right and it will play out this way. However, I have some problems with this. Generally, your lead actress or second lead should not be playing a supporting role to the rest of the story. If they are, it's generally a problem, such as it turned out to be with Weir. Or as it was with Carter in S10. So I can't believe that they would bring AT over and put her in the lead actress spot only to have her play support. If she ends up in the lead actress spot, then I have to assume that she's going to be playing a much more significant role. Especially if she's going to be put in over RL, who by all accounts is going to have a significant role herself this year.

Quinn Mallory
June 10th, 2007, 06:25 PM
I think the show may not unveil the new opening (with Carter) until the fifth episode (or whenever that Carter enters the series).

As for the order of the cast, I think Carter will likely take that last spot (which is the one that MS got in SG-1 after he came back).

StevenCaldwell
June 11th, 2007, 05:22 AM
No one freak out, but since Tapping is going to be creditted as a main character, I think it's obvious Carter is replacing Weir as leader of the expedition. :weir: :sam:

well that what i've hurd anyway. Its proberly right but there was nothing wrong with Wier in charge.

vaberella
June 11th, 2007, 05:29 AM
God, who cares :| Opening credits are for fast forwarding anyway....

I 100% agree! :D I make it just in time to Hewlett or just miss an added 30 seconds into the beginning of the ep, cause I do not watch opening credits.

Seven
June 11th, 2007, 05:50 AM
If Carter is in only 14 eps then I cannot see that she will be the lead character. A lead is in most of the eps, even if it is just one line.

Willow'sCat
June 12th, 2007, 04:41 PM
God, who cares :| Opening credits are for fast forwarding anyway....
The actors, the agents, the managers... they all care. ;)

prion
June 13th, 2007, 04:12 AM
Here's how the cast lineup went for SG-1 S10 and Atlantis S3.

Ben Browder
Amanda Tapping
Chris Judge
Claudia Black
with Beau Bridges
and Michael Shanks as Daniel Jackson

Joe Flanigan
Torri Higginson
Rachel Luttrell
Jason Momoa
with Paul McGillion as Dr Carson Beckett
and David Hewlitt as Dr McKay (It's interesting that it's Dr McKay, not Dr Rodney McKay)

So... the way I see it.... AT could take two places. She could replace TH in the lineup, which would indeed make her lead actress. Or she could replace PM "with Amanda Tapping as Col. Samantha Carter". At least as I define the terms, I don't think that would make Carter a lead or a central character. Neither Landry or Carson came under that category, IMO. Both could definitely be considered supporting characters, and if AT takes that spot I think Carter can legitimately be called a supporting character for Atlantis.


I'm sure they'll either slot her in Torri's slot or in Paul's slot. That way they appease her agent and whoever else, but don't tick off the actors who have been on SGA for three years. There's no way she'll get the top or ending credits.

Weir wasn't a supporting character. She was designed as a co-lead but the writers didn't know what to do with her. It could be they just can't write for women.

Dr. McKay sounds so much better than Rodney McKay for some reason and besides, now DH can telling his siblings, some of whom are doctors, that he's one too ;)

vaberella
June 13th, 2007, 10:58 AM
It could be they just can't write for women.

You know when people say this it irks me. It seems to me when someone says that, they've just slapped the face of every fan of a stargate female. If the writers didn't have some perspective, how do explain the fan support for a paticular stargate female? But then what am I saying, even some of the fans subscribe to that idea. Or instead feel like slapping the face of all writers but one or two (as being the ONLY ones) to know how to write for a female character. I don't think sex has anything to do with it. But that's a different topic for a different thread.
================================================================================ ===
I say give Carter all the air time in the credits, won't bug me since I don't like opening creds anyway. But if she's in it, I think she's going to be in the end like Carson and McKay. I can't see her taking TH's spot at all. But I'm sure we'll find out soon enough. I can't wait for S4

jenks
June 13th, 2007, 11:29 AM
Personally, I don't think the writer are very good at writing for women to be honest, I think the only main characters they've got right are Vala and Janet. Cater - bland, 'perfect', Weir - walking contradiction, Teyla - wallpaper :S

Steve_the_Wraith
June 13th, 2007, 12:16 PM
People often complain that Weir should have been a more active character (or the shows "co-lead") and blame the writers but its not their fault.

Weir isn't on the frontline team. She has no reason to go exploring random planets. Just like Beckett her place is on Atlantis unless a mission specifically calls for her skills as a negotiator. She's not a linguist or archeologist like Daniel (the times when she fills this role were an example of how deperate tptb got to find something more to do with the character, other than saying "be safe"). Weir's particular niche didn't lend itself to taking centre stage often (because Atlantis isn't a political thriller, it's an adventure show).


That said, season 3 really soured me on the Weir character, whilst before I thought she was great ("Before I Sleep" is one of my favourites). She increasingly started acting like a maniac (from the beginning she was emotional (her chewing out of Kavanaugh in "38 minutes" but it got worse as the season progressed)

In season 3, she flaunted the IOAs (her bosses) authority, insulted them, acted like an arrogant b*tch refusing to take any responsiblity for what happened in "Allies"/"No Man's Land", add to that her irrationality and being overly emotional at the drop of a hat. She even suffered a near breakdown after leaving Atlantis (Locking herself in your house and obsessing over Atlantis, refusing contact with the outside world (refusing to answer the phone)).

After insulting and ridiculing her bosses and acting irrationally, she wondered why the IOA didn't trust her. The IOA/miltaries descision to leave her out of the loop in "First Strike" probably had more to do with them being disliking her because she was a civilian, and more to do with not trusting her to follow orders

prion
June 13th, 2007, 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by prion
It could be they just can't write for women.


You know when people say this it irks me. It seems to me when someone says that, they've just slapped the face of every fan of a stargate female. If the writers didn't have some perspective, how do explain the fan support for a paticular stargate female? But then what am I saying, even some of the fans subscribe to that idea. Or instead feel like slapping the face of all writers but one or two (as being the ONLY ones) to know how to write for a female character. I don't think sex has anything to do with it. But that's a different topic for a different thread.


Uh, sorry, but as a woman, I feel their inerpretation of female characters falls flat a lot. And I'm not just talking Carter, but many other characters in the last decade (or 13 years, if you want to include SGA seasons too). The strongest female they had perhaps was Nirrti, and then Catherine, but when it comes to the regulars on the show... Teyla is the leader of her people, yet they have yet to really show her lead. She follows. Weir is the commander, yet the writers seem to struggle over what to do with her. And the remark wasn't a sexist remark; it's just that the writers (yes, all men) can't seem to get a handle on the women characters... or maybe it's just they don't care to add more depth to characters either.


People often complain that Weir should have been a more active character (or the shows "co-lead") and blame the writers but its not their fault.

Weir isn't on the frontline team. She has no reason to go exploring random planets. Just like Beckett her place is on Atlantis unless a mission specifically calls for her skills as a negotiator. She's not a linguist or archeologist like Daniel (the times when she fills this role were an example of how deperate tptb got to find something more to do with the character, other than saying "be safe"). Weir's particular niche didn't lend itself to taking centre stage often (because Atlantis isn't a political thriller, it's an adventure show).

That said, season 3 really soured me on the Weir character, whilst before I thought she was great ("Before I Sleep" is one of my favourites). She increasingly started acting like a maniac (from the beginning she was emotional (her chewing out of Kavanaugh in "38 minutes" but it got worse as the season progressed)

In season 3, she flaunted the IOAs (her bosses) authority, insulted them, acted like an arrogant b*tch refusing to take any responsiblity for what happened in "Allies"/"No Man's Land", add to that her irrationality and being overly emotional at the drop of a hat. She even suffered a near breakdown after leaving Atlantis (Locking herself in your house and obsessing over Atlantis, refusing contact with the outside world (refusing to answer the phone)).

After insulting and ridiculing her bosses and acting irrationally, she wondered why the IOA didn't trust her. The IOA/miltaries descision to leave her out of the loop in "First Strike" probably had more to do with them being disliking her because she was a civilian, and more to do with not trusting her to follow orders

Uh, the writers WRITE Weir, so who else would be at fault? In fact, all the points you dislike about Weir were written by the writers, so.... well, it is their fault. It's not like Weir is writing herself ;)

Well, at least in "First Strike," the military can accept full blame for their actions, which were pretty stupid. But I missed any arrogant b*tch and insulting irrational behavior that you said you saw.

Steve_the_Wraith
June 13th, 2007, 12:41 PM
I admit that the writers wrote Weir badly, what I contest is people people saying the character of Elizabeth Weir should have played a larger role and that tptb were at fault for not including her more

Ruffles
June 13th, 2007, 01:24 PM
I like to hear these interesting arguments.

Personally, it wouldn't make sense that Carter will get Weir's spot because:

1. Carter is only in 14 episodes.
2. JM himself said that her character will be not unlike Landry.
3. She will be a supporting character.

Agreed. Only thing recently that causes me to wondered is the bit on SciFi wire that notes Carter has experience and can go offworld if needed (unlike Landry).


Personally, I don't think the writer are very good at writing for women to be honest, I think the only main characters they've got right are Vala and Janet. Cater - bland, 'perfect', Weir - walking contradiction, Teyla - wallpaper :S

Do you think it's that the characters are women or just that the writers are challenged by the character? What I mean is do you think Weir is a walking contradication because she is written as a female? Would the role be written/played differently if the expedition leader had been male?

Vabi - LOVE the new sig. And you don't like the opening music? It's one of my faves.

jenks
June 13th, 2007, 01:43 PM
Do you think it's that the characters are women or just that the writers are challenged by the character? What I mean is do you think Weir is a walking contradication because she is written as a female? Would the role be written/played differently if the expedition leader had been male?



I think she's a walking contradiction because one minute she's a hippy, next minute she's ordering people to be tortured, then back to being a hippy again! I think the problem lies with the writers trying to write 'strong' female characters without quite knowing what a strong female character is.

Agent_Dark
June 13th, 2007, 02:15 PM
Personally, I don't think the writer are very good at writing for women to be honest, I think the only main characters they've got right are Vala and Janet. Cater - bland, 'perfect', Weir - walking contradiction, Teyla - wallpaper :S

They're not very good at writing male characters (exhibit A: Daniel Jackson)either. Characterisation isn't really their strong point, though to be fair the shows aren't really based around the characters - they're plot based shows.

prion
June 13th, 2007, 04:02 PM
I admit that the writers wrote Weir badly, what I contest is people people saying the character of Elizabeth Weir should have played a larger role and that tptb were at fault for not including her more


Agreed. Only thing recently that causes me to wondered is the bit on SciFi wire that notes Carter has experience and can go offworld if needed (unlike Landry).

Do you think it's that the characters are women or just that the writers are challenged by the character? What I mean is do you think Weir is a walking contradication because she is written as a female? Would the role be written/played differently if the expedition leader had been male?


Er, well, writers shouldn't be so challenged they're not up to solving the problem, but it seems that way. They have had problems, on both shows, with evolving the characters, although maybe Teal'c's had the evolution as he now smiles and lacks a snake in his tummy. ;) It's hard to tell if the expedition leader had been male if they would have written him better, or



I think she's a walking contradiction because one minute she's a hippy, next minute she's ordering people to be tortured, then back to being a hippy again! I think the problem lies with the writers trying to write 'strong' female characters without quite knowing what a strong female character is.

Actually, the word is hippie ;) and no, she's not one of those. I went through the 70s, believe me, she's not a hippie. However, she has had her moments of being happy - can't fault her that - and it hasn't been contradictory to the plots that I can recall.

vaberella
June 14th, 2007, 12:57 AM
Uh, sorry, but as a woman, I feel their inerpretation of female characters falls flat a lot. And I'm not just talking Carter, but many other characters in the last decade (or 13 years, if you want to include SGA seasons too). The strongest female they had perhaps was Nirrti, and then Catherine, but when it comes to the regulars on the show... Teyla is the leader of her people, yet they have yet to really show her lead. She follows. Weir is the commander, yet the writers seem to struggle over what to do with her. And the remark wasn't a sexist remark; it's just that the writers (yes, all men) can't seem to get a handle on the women characters... or maybe it's just they don't care to add more depth to characters either.

The comment in bold I will agree with. I won't deny that I do find that the writers have fallen flat on many occasions, or just completely dropped the ball on character usage. Overall, I think they did a good job, because again the fans of each stargate female wouldn't be a fan otherwise. But I as a fan of Teyla recognize you're complaints and I can't deny it...nor will I. But as for saying they can't write for women...they've done enough to give us an impression of characters with great potential if nothing else.

I didn't mean to imply that there was anything sexist in your remark, because I know there wasn't. I was just saying that the writers failures are not based on the females alone, I've had my problems with the men---Sheppard, comes to mind.

Vabi - LOVE the new sig. And you don't like the opening music? It's one of my faves.
Thanks, Rufs. :D No way, if I have problems humming a theme... I don't like it, so I avoid it. It's just not hummable. That's why I liked Macgyver, BtVS, and X-Files themes---I could hum them.


They're not very good at writing male characters (exhibit A: Daniel Jackson)either. Characterisation isn't really their strong point, though to be fair the shows aren't really based around the characters - they're plot based shows.
I concur, I have my problems with some of the male characters at times. Mine is mainly do to consistency within the characters, and believablity with responding to the situation at hand.

Willow'sCat
June 14th, 2007, 01:45 AM
They're not very good at writing male characters (exhibit A: Daniel Jackson)either. Characterisation isn't really their strong point, though to be fair the shows aren't really based around the characters - they're plot based shows.LOL! Thank you I like a laugh. :p:D I think they are truly SFX based shows, really they are no more plot based then Star Wars. :cool::rolleyes:

Pharaoh Atem
June 14th, 2007, 02:11 AM
just use clips from past epsiode and then do a little teaser like battestar galactia does :)

Agent_Dark
June 14th, 2007, 03:31 AM
LOL! Thank you I like a laugh. :p:D I think they are truly SFX based shows, really they are no more plot based then Star Wars. :cool::rolleyes:

Just because you may think the plots suck, doesn't mean they aren't plots ;) :P

DONNA BOOTH
June 14th, 2007, 05:08 AM
i think theyll probably slot her in after Jasons credits and i think they will probably keep Joes as it is move Rachels Credits to after Joes :sheppard::teyla:

prion
June 14th, 2007, 05:25 AM
LOL! Thank you I like a laugh. :p:D I think they are truly SFX based shows, really they are no more plot based then Star Wars. :cool::rolleyes:

SciFi shows are dependent on characters more so, than say, Law & Order, which is a story-driven show. In shows like that, you can rotate out cast with a minimum of fuss, but as we all know, you remove a character in a scifi show, and explosions happen in fandom. Kill off Luke Skywalker, Starbuck, etc. and fans cry foul. Kill off the prosecutor on L&O and people go "Oh." After all, if cast didn't matter much on Stargate, RDA would have left long ago.

eri-chan
June 14th, 2007, 05:32 AM
i get the feeling at's credits will get slapped on at the end of the list. well last spot or second last and will have her title next to it.

Suzotchka
June 14th, 2007, 05:33 AM
I think it would be hysterically funny if they gave her (Carter) first billing.

I wonder if they're going to move everyone else and not keep it in the same order.

Edit: I can see Carter being second in the credits as she was second in SG-1 for a while.

eri-chan
June 14th, 2007, 05:45 AM
I wonder if they're going to move everyone else and not keep it in the same order.

i would be very very amused if the opening credits turned out like this:
amanda tapping as dr col. samantha carter
john flannigan
jason momoa
rachel luttrell
david hewlett as dr mckay

i feel that ronon's been getting more backstory done on him than teyla has throughout the whole show already. moving her wont hurt much? :p

Cautious Explorer
June 14th, 2007, 06:04 AM
i would be very very amused if the opening credits turned out like this:
amanda tapping as dr col. samantha carter
john flannigan
jason momoa
rachel luttrell
david hewlett as dr mckay

i feel that ronon's been getting more backstory done on him than teyla has throughout the whole show already. moving her wont hurt much? :p

I'm not sure Joe Flanigan would find your credits amusing

vaberella
June 14th, 2007, 08:19 AM
I think it would be hysterically funny if they gave her (Carter) first billing.

I wonder if they're going to move everyone else and not keep it in the same order.

Edit: I can see Carter being second in the credits as she was second in SG-1 for a while.

Hmmm, second place is (or was) TH's spot. It's technically an empty spot right now. I sincerely doubt that will be the case, but one never knows. I still figure she's coming at the end like Carson.

Diesel Vanilla
June 14th, 2007, 09:06 AM
(You know when you are stuck with your work when you read through an entire thread in one wallop...)

I also think they will put her name just before DH's too. 'Amanda Tapping as Col. Samantha Carter'. Not convinced there will be a 'with'.

I know this is from a while back in this thread but I couldn't help but quote...


Chances are, TPTB will be treading carefully to avoid antagonizing any fans more than necessary.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmmm, not quiiiite convinced by their track record of 'treading carefully'! ;) I wouldn't put it past them to give AT first billing!!!

Linzi
June 14th, 2007, 09:32 AM
(You know when you are stuck with your work when you read through an entire thread in one wallop...)

I also think they will put her name just before DH's too. 'Amanda Tapping as Col. Samantha Carter'. Not convinced there will be a 'with'.

I know this is from a while back in this thread but I couldn't help but quote...



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmmm, not quiiiite convinced by their track record of 'treading carefully'! ;) I wouldn't put it past them to give AT first billing!!!
No way would they do that. As has been discussed before, first billing is Joe's. It'll be written into his contract, so unless he leaves, that's where he stays, unless TPTB wanted to renegotiate his contract. Same goes for David's last spot, I'd bet. I think AT will get a bit before David, with a 'Amanda Tapping as...' I can't see AT taking spot number 2, quite simply because I think she's viewed as more important than that in Stargate terms. So, I think she'll be near the end of the credits.

jenks
June 14th, 2007, 09:47 AM
Maybe she'll be third, and fool everyone.

LaCroix
June 14th, 2007, 02:09 PM
That or


Joe Flanigan
Rachel Luttrell
Jason Momoa
with
Amanda Tapping
as Colonel Samantha Carter
and
David Hewlett
as Dr McKay

would be my best bet.

Time will tell, I suppose.



I'm also thinking that it'll be this way too. But as you've said, time will tell.

Falcon Horus
June 14th, 2007, 02:23 PM
Either way, mine won't look that way.

Agent_Dark
June 14th, 2007, 02:42 PM
Either way, mine won't look that way.
You should edit the credits and put the original Weir in too. Nothing against Torri, but Jessica Steen was the original Weir and deserves to be in there.

Falcon Horus
June 14th, 2007, 02:49 PM
You should edit the credits and put the original Weir in too. Nothing against Torri, but Jessica Steen was the original Weir and deserves to be in there.

Mmm...could do that if I had the right footage.

But mine won't have Carter and Weir will only be there when she's in the episode.

Agent_Dark
June 14th, 2007, 02:50 PM
Mmm...could do that if I had the right footage.

But mine won't have Carter and Weir will only be there when she's in the episode.

You going to edit Ronon out and put Ford back for the episodes he's in too?

jenks
June 14th, 2007, 02:56 PM
That's sooo old skool, you're hardcore!...

...

*tries to keep straight face*

...

Ha ha ha I'm sorry, but that's just plain childish, editing out characters because things haven't gone your way indeed :rolleyes: LOL

mcbarr
June 14th, 2007, 03:01 PM
Well, I won't edit anything, but I'm not going to watch the "new and improved" SGA either. :cool:

TameFarrar
June 14th, 2007, 03:38 PM
Please remember to keep your comments on the topic and not on the members themselves.

Making personal observations of the members that are rude, belittling and/or derogatory are considered disrespectful and not allowed.

Thanks
TameFarrar
Gate World Moderator

Falcon Horus
June 15th, 2007, 07:11 AM
You going to edit Ronon out and put Ford back for the episodes he's in too?

Do you want me to? :p

Agent_Dark
June 15th, 2007, 04:48 PM
Do you want me to? :p

Well if you're going to stick to a principle, you should ;)

Mitchell82
June 15th, 2007, 05:02 PM
This is how I see it
Joe Flanigan
Rachel Luttrell
Jason Momoa
Amanda Tapping as Col Samantha Carter
With Jewel Staite as Dr Jennifer Keller
And David Hewlett as Dr Rodney Mckay

Agent_Dark
June 15th, 2007, 05:25 PM
This is how I see it
Joe Flanigan
Rachel Luttrell
Jason Momoa
Amanda Tapping as Col Samantha Carter
With Jewel Staite as Dr Jennifer Keller
And David Hewlett as Dr Rodney Mckay

Jewel Staite won't be in the opening credits. She'll probably have a 'and Jewel Staite as Dr Keller' in the guest credits though.

Mitchell82
June 15th, 2007, 05:30 PM
Jewel Staite won't be in the opening credits. She'll probably have a 'and Jewel Staite as Dr Keller' in the guest credits though.

Good point she may be in the main cast credits in season 5. Do you think the other parts I put are correct or am I wrong?

prion
June 15th, 2007, 05:53 PM
Jewel Staite won't be in the opening credits. She'll probably have a 'and Jewel Staite as Dr Keller' in the guest credits though.

and if we get a season 5, and they promote her, they'll bump her off by season 6. physicians have short life spans on sg shows, it seems... ;)

Mitchell82
June 15th, 2007, 05:55 PM
and if we get a season 5, and they promote her, they'll bump her off by season 6. physicians have short life spans on sg shows, it seems... ;)

Actually Carson was the only short lived one. Fraiser was on for 7 years.

Celcool
June 15th, 2007, 09:46 PM
Actually Carson was the only short lived one. Fraiser was on for 7 years.
Yeah but on SG-1 they gave characters a chance to develop, they didn't mess with it as early as they're messing with Atlantis. There's a difference.

jenks
June 16th, 2007, 06:34 AM
So physicians don't have a short lifespan on Stargate then, just one.

Mitchell82
June 16th, 2007, 08:57 AM
Yeah but on SG-1 they gave characters a chance to develop, they didn't mess with it as early as they're messing with Atlantis. There's a difference.

Not really. When we compare the two shows it causes problems. Teryl wanted a reduced role but instead they cut her out, as to Atlantis who knows why this happend. There might be a difference to you as you are deeply upset by this and while I do hate that Carson was killed off I don't believe they are messing with Atlantis.

Falcon Horus
June 16th, 2007, 12:56 PM
Well if you're going to stick to a principle, you should ;)

Then I will try to do so.


Actually Carson was the only short lived one. Fraiser was on for 7 years.

She was never in the opening credits. :p

Copernicus
June 16th, 2007, 01:03 PM
Apparently there is a pamphlet somewhere that tells men what good etiquette is when it comes to deciding which urinal to use in a bathroom depending on the number of stalls. Bearing this in mind, I ask the following question:

I have a general sense of how the whole system of credit works in television based on what I've read here and seen on TV, but is there any sort of guideline to refer to for the relative importance of each location in the order, or are we just attaching significance on our own depending on how we feel about each character?

For example, when I say the reason that Michael Shanks was tacked on at the end after he returned in season 7 was that the producers wanted to highlight he had returned as a way of drawing in people who might have left, is there an official source anywhere that will confirm or deny that this kind of process is followed (perhaps even negotiated for), or am I just speculating based on the data I have gathered from various television shows with their opening credits?

prion
June 16th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Not really. When we compare the two shows it causes problems. Teryl wanted a reduced role but instead they cut her out, as to Atlantis who knows why this happend. There might be a difference to you as you are deeply upset by this and while I do hate that Carson was killed off I don't believe they are messing with Atlantis.

Teryl was pretty shocked when she was told her character was being killed. From what I recall, she did not want a reduced role. She was busy doing plays, etc. - heck, when you're a supporting character not used all the time, you take other jobs. They just phoned her and told her what they were going to do. Carmen A (Selmac) opened up his script to find out Selmac was being offed.


Actually Carson was the only short lived one. Fraiser was on for 7 years.

When the show needs to kill a character for ratings, the docs seem to go first. Don't know what their reasoning is, but that's what they do. But then SG1 had a decade, SGA hasn't even finished three years yet (as aired).


Apparently there is a pamphlet somewhere that tells men what good etiquette is when it comes to deciding which urinal to use in a bathroom depending on the number of stalls. Bearing this in mind, I ask the following question:

I have a general sense of how the whole system of credit works in television based on what I've read here and seen on TV, but is there any sort of guideline to refer to for the relative importance of each location in the order, or are we just attaching significance on our own depending on how we feel about each character?

For example, when I say the reason that Michael Shanks was tacked on at the end after he returned in season 7 was that the producers wanted to highlight he had returned as a way of drawing in people who might have left, is there an official source anywhere that will confirm or deny that this kind of process is followed (perhaps even negotiated for), or am I just speculating based on the data I have gathered from various television shows with their opening credits?

The order of credits is all negotiated for by actors and their agents. While it may not mean much to the casual viewers, it means a lot on the actor's resume. Joe Flanigan obviously is the lead so he gets top credits. The end credit of "and also starring" etc. is negotiated for as well. The middle credits don't seem to mean as much as the beginning and end.

Seven
June 16th, 2007, 11:24 PM
The middle credits don't seem to mean as much as the beginning and end.

That is also what I understand. Unless there are so many stars in one production and it would be such a hot potato to try and rank them in conventianal opening credit terms they do the "In alphabetical order".

I would say normal credits start with the central characters and the end credits seems just as important. Maybe it because pople make a cup of tea or whatever during the opening credits and when they settle back down they just get the last characters name flashed up on the screen hence the actors name gets well known. Just an idea.

Integrabyte
June 17th, 2007, 02:50 AM
Then I will try to do so.



She was never in the opening credits. :p


...but she was in the show for more than any SGA character ;).

Falcon Horus
June 17th, 2007, 04:08 AM
...but she was in the show for more than any SGA character ;).

Absolutely true.

prion
June 17th, 2007, 06:59 AM
That is also what I understand. Unless there are so many stars in one production and it would be such a hot potato to try and rank them in conventianal opening credit terms they do the "In alphabetical order".

I would say normal credits start with the central characters and the end credits seems just as important. Maybe it because pople make a cup of tea or whatever during the opening credits and when they settle back down they just get the last characters name flashed up on the screen hence the actors name gets well known. Just an idea.

Becuase the average viewing audience has the attention span of a gnat, and whoever gets listed first is usually remembered most. I don't think I"ve ever seen any film/show put names in alphabetical order. In order of appearance, yes, but never alphabetical.

vaberella
June 17th, 2007, 07:36 AM
Good point she may be in the main cast credits in season 5. Do you think the other parts I put are correct or am I wrong?

They won't put her as a main in S5. The writers won't tempt fate like that again. They have her and they can work with her as a minor character better than a full blown regular. A doctor, especially head doctor really is in the same elk as the leader. Unless it's a mission that demands ALL doctors, or their presence because of lack of doctors, no head Doctor should be on a mission. This is why I never understood Carson's presence on many of the missions. He was great as a regular, but then became a marionette in scenes, just dancing around. If you're a constant regular like Lorne and Zelenka you appear during the show right after the opening credits are over, along with the writer and director's name. Which is shown in alphabetical order in regards to the recurring/guest actor.

Linzi
June 17th, 2007, 07:46 AM
Becuase the average viewing audience has the attention span of a gnat, and whoever gets listed first is usually remembered most. I don't think I"ve ever seen any film/show put names in alphabetical order. In order of appearance, yes, but never alphabetical.
Actually, I believe Enterprise listed the cast in alphabetical order. It does seem to be rare though.

Copernicus
June 17th, 2007, 11:30 AM
Actually, I believe Enterprise listed the cast in alphabetical order. It does seem to be rare though.
I believe Lost does as well.

Mitchell82
June 17th, 2007, 12:54 PM
They won't put her as a main in S5. The writers won't tempt fate like that again. They have her and they can work with her as a minor character better than a full blown regular. A doctor, especially head doctor really is in the same elk as the leader. Unless it's a mission that demands ALL doctors, or their presence because of lack of doctors, no head Doctor should be on a mission. This is why I never understood Carson's presence on many of the missions. He was great as a regular, but then became a marionette in scenes, just dancing around. If you're a constant regular like Lorne and Zelenka you appear during the show right after the opening credits are over, along with the writer and director's name. Which is shown in alphabetical order in regards to the recurring/guest actor.

That's a good point. I never understood why Carson was on so many missions that he wasnt needed for.

prion
June 17th, 2007, 03:41 PM
That's a good point. I never understood why Carson was on so many missions that he wasnt needed for.

For the same reason Dr. McCoy went on missions too.

vaberella
June 18th, 2007, 05:13 AM
For the same reason Dr. McCoy went on missions too.

Dr. McCoy new how to handle a gun. Liabilities need to stay off missions. Yes, this should include McKay, but McKay gets everyone out of a jam. :D

StevenCaldwell
June 19th, 2007, 02:03 AM
I think the opening cast will remain the same untill the 2nd or 3rd episode. The casting was the same at the start of season 2 untill we found Ronon, they added him and took Ford out.

So when Adrift is aired and we find out that Sam comes to Atlantis, then they will change the credits.

So it should read as

:sheppard:
:weir:
:teyla:
:ronan:
David hewlett as :mckay:

Mitchell82
June 19th, 2007, 06:37 AM
Dr. McCoy new how to handle a gun. Liabilities need to stay off missions. Yes, this should include McKay, but McKay gets everyone out of a jam. :D

Exactly. Mckay has skills to allow him to be on missions but Carson did not handle combat well so he should only go as needed.

Seven
June 21st, 2007, 08:53 AM
Actually, I believe Enterprise listed the cast in alphabetical order. It does seem to be rare though.

Mini-series are often alphabetical order. I think either Dallas or Dynasty was in alphabetical order because of the number of central characters.

I agree it is very rare.

Seven
June 21st, 2007, 08:55 AM
Exactly. Mckay has skills to allow him to be on missions but Carson did not handle combat well so he should only go as needed.

I would like to know whay they really got rid of theCarson character. I grew to really like having him there.

prion
June 21st, 2007, 09:08 AM
I would like to know whay they really got rid of theCarson character. I grew to really like having him there.

Mallozi said here: http://gateworld.net/interviews/taking_the_reins.shtml

JM: You never know. Yeah, no one is safe. In sci-fi, sci-fi viewers get the best of both worlds. We can put in those types of twists, but in the case of Daniel Jackson, he's gone, he's dead, and then a year later he descends and comes back. You're not going to see that on Grey's Anatomy.

Also, just in terms of the decision on "Sunday:" It made sense for the story. In much the same way that, I guess, "Heroes, Part 2" was memorable, and had such an impact. [It] was because of what happened at the end to Fraiser. In much the same way, I think "Sunday" will have the same impact on fans. And obviously it has, as we await the fan demonstration today.


So, no, we don't know why. He said a lot in the interview but really, said very little. Beckett seems to be have been bumped off just to 'shake things up.'

And they don't explain why they felt the need to change out Weir - they're all excited about it, but well....

Seven
June 21st, 2007, 09:20 AM
Thanks Prion.

Mitchell82
June 21st, 2007, 08:04 PM
Mallozi said here: http://gateworld.net/interviews/taking_the_reins.shtml

JM: You never know. Yeah, no one is safe. In sci-fi, sci-fi viewers get the best of both worlds. We can put in those types of twists, but in the case of Daniel Jackson, he's gone, he's dead, and then a year later he descends and comes back. You're not going to see that on Grey's Anatomy.

Also, just in terms of the decision on "Sunday:" It made sense for the story. In much the same way that, I guess, "Heroes, Part 2" was memorable, and had such an impact. [It] was because of what happened at the end to Fraiser. In much the same way, I think "Sunday" will have the same impact on fans. And obviously it has, as we await the fan demonstration today.


So, no, we don't know why. He said a lot in the interview but really, said very little. Beckett seems to be have been bumped off just to 'shake things up.'

And they don't explain why they felt the need to change out Weir - they're all excited about it, but well....
In truth we will never know. They have their reasons and we will never know what they are. It did shake things up but in a good way.

Celcool
June 21st, 2007, 10:50 PM
It did shake things up but in a good way.
I don't see it that way.

prion
June 22nd, 2007, 08:28 AM
In truth we will never know. They have their reasons and we will never know what they are. It did shake things up but in a good way.

Hm, that's very debatable. Good for you, but not necessarily for others.

Mitchell82
June 22nd, 2007, 11:53 AM
Hm, that's very debatable. Good for you, but not necessarily for others.

Oh I know that very well. I do miss Carson alot but he died a hero IMO. He knew he was placing his life on the line while trying to save another, just like Janet. I am glad he's coming back. As to Weir I'm not upset at all I liked her but she was the weakest of the characters IMO, so she's not a huge loss in my eyes.

prion
June 22nd, 2007, 03:58 PM
Oh I know that very well. I do miss Carson alot but he died a hero IMO. He knew he was placing his life on the line while trying to save another, just like Janet. I am glad he's coming back. As to Weir I'm not upset at all I liked her but she was the weakest of the characters IMO, so she's not a huge loss in my eyes.

Yes, suppose if you're going to die, being a hero is better than of a heart attack in front of the TV ;) but dead is still dead. Anyway, there are lots of fans not thrilled with WEir's removal. Can't do much about it but we can voice our opinion ;)

SG13-NightOps
June 22nd, 2007, 04:28 PM
Oh I know that very well. I do miss Carson alot but he died a hero IMO. He knew he was placing his life on the line while trying to save another, just like Janet. I am glad he's coming back. As to Weir I'm not upset at all I liked her but she was the weakest of the characters IMO, so she's not a huge loss in my eyes.

She was the weakest character, I 100% agree.

I am not upset because her pending removal as leader was coming since the beginning of Season 3 and so I expected it. As the writers always do, they add a line that you can look back to later and go "OH! Yeah, I get that now"

Quote Woolsey: Nothing renews your appreciation for the military like the threat of invasion from life-sucking aliens.

Add Replicators Mk II and its apparent the IOA were going to defer to the military eventually.

Mitchell82
June 22nd, 2007, 05:36 PM
She was the weakest character, I 100% agree.

I am not upset because her pending removal as leader was coming since the beginning of Season 3 and so I expected it. As the writers always do, they add a line that you can look back to later and go "OH! Yeah, I get that now"

Quote Woolsey: Nothing renews your appreciation for the military like the threat of invasion from life-sucking aliens.

Add Replicators Mk II and its apparent the IOA were going to defer to the military eventually.

Exactly. I like Weir but, while she did get development a civilian was a bad choice from the getgo, and that's not just because I'm military. It's because she had no skills to run the city she was/is a good diplomat but that's about it. Carter has more than enough skills to be a better leader.

Adria
July 3rd, 2007, 04:15 AM
I think the opening sequence will be quite similar to S3's, except it will include some of the First Strike CGI. The credits will go:

:sheppard:
:teyla:
:ronan:
with :sam: as Lt. Colonel Samantha Carter
and :mckay: as Dr. Rodney McKay

But I'd literally pay US Dollars if (in the season premiere) they would:


cut between the CGI/Action Sequences and clips of Carter for the first 10-seconds
then "Amanda Tapping" over an embossed image of Carter for 4-seconds
followed by another 10-seconds of Carter & CGI/Action Sequences
then 2-seconds of an embossed cast image of Shep, McKay, Ronan & Teyla with "with Joe Flannigan Rachel Luttrel Jason Momoa David Hewlett displayed under their respective images
2-seconds of a panning clip of Atlantis
closing with a clip of Carter firing a P90

all just to piss off the entire fanbase.

:lol: it's going to be :sheppard::sam::ronan::teyla::mckay: and i'm sure a little weir in there for good measure :)

prion
July 3rd, 2007, 04:58 AM
:lol: it's going to be :sheppard::sam::ronan::teyla::mckay: and i'm sure a little weir in there for good measure :)

I seriously doubt Weir will be in the main credits if they've removed Torri from a regular slot. Nope, she'll show up as a 'special guest star' in the text credits at the beginning of act I, and I'm sure they'll give Amanda her slot.

Adria
July 3rd, 2007, 05:00 AM
wel even jsut have a picture of her standin in the background listening to someone ( just a quick thing)

Seven
July 3rd, 2007, 09:06 AM
I seriously doubt Weir will be in the main credits if they've removed Torri from a regular slot. Nope, she'll show up as a 'special guest star' in the text credits at the beginning of act I, and I'm sure they'll give Amanda her slot.

I agree, if she is only in 4 eps all season as indicated they will place her as a guest or some such intro.