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View Full Version : Press release on season 4: delays, delays and recasting



prion
February 20th, 2007, 01:03 PM
It's in the NEWS section of the forum

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=6352891#post6352891

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 01:14 PM
This sucks. This means Carter might be in command of Atlantis. Which sucks.

Celcool
February 20th, 2007, 01:29 PM
Sucks big time.

Cameron Mitchel
February 20th, 2007, 01:31 PM
Sucks big time.
Yes, sucks.

jenks
February 20th, 2007, 01:34 PM
It's not all bad, atleast Weir won't be around as much...

Wormhole
February 20th, 2007, 01:40 PM
It's not all bad, atleast Weir won't be around as much...

Would rather it be more:weiranime42: ... Loss of Friends sounds like not at all:weir44:

So glad I don't drink:( Think I could do with it:o

AlexD
February 20th, 2007, 01:43 PM
It's in the NEWS section of the forum

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=6352891#post6352891

Yep, it sucks...

Starxgate
February 20th, 2007, 01:44 PM
If Sci-Fi wanted a reason to cancel Atlantis then all they have to do is have it air on Monday nights at 9 & have it be on the same time as Heroes & 24. That would be the death of Atlantis.

Cameron Mitchel
February 20th, 2007, 01:47 PM
It's not all bad, atleast Weir won't be around as much...
But, to me, Weir is an okay character, and is the best choice in her character's role, much better than Carter would be in that role.

Wormhole
February 20th, 2007, 01:47 PM
If Sci-Fi wanted a reason to cancel Atlantis then all they have to do is have it air on Monday nights at 9 & have it be on the same time as Heroes & 24. That would be the death of Atlantis.

No need for that, their losing fans thick and fast already. Which will cause a big drop in the ratings. I for one will be out for the count and I'm sure many others will be. It's no longer the show we no and love.

Starxgate
February 20th, 2007, 01:51 PM
No need for that, their losing fans thick and fast already

Its Sci-Fi I would not put it past them. I really hope that Sc-Fi has nothing to do with that 3rd series. I say give Stargate a TV break. Let that contract die. That way MGM can find Stargate a new home & just do for the time being DVD movies.

prion
February 20th, 2007, 01:57 PM
Its Sci-Fi I would not put it past them. I really hope that Sc-Fi has nothing to do with that 3rd series. I say give Stargate a TV break. Let that contract die. That way MGM can find Stargate a new home & just do for the time being DVD movies.

Alas, at the rate Skiffy is pushing NEW characters and the death of regular characters as though it's a good thing, I'm at the point that if the entire SG franchise just vanished, it wouldn't bother me. Let us enjoy the DVDs and when it comes back, get ONLY the good writers, ditch Skiffy entirely and start on another network.

jenks
February 20th, 2007, 01:59 PM
Alas, at the rate Skiffy is pushing NEW characters and the death of regular characters as though it's a good thing, I'm at the point that if the entire SG franchise just vanished, it wouldn't bother me. Let us enjoy the DVDs and when it comes back, get ONLY the good writers, ditch Skiffy entirely and start on another network.

Maybe it is...

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 02:00 PM
But it isn't. That many cast changes is never good.

jenks
February 20th, 2007, 02:07 PM
No one will know until they see it.

Cameron Mitchel
February 20th, 2007, 02:10 PM
No need for that, their losing fans thick and fast already. Which will cause a big drop in the ratings. I for one will be out for the count and I'm sure many others will be. It's no longer the show we no and love.
That's right. I was fine with seasons 1-10, all of em, of SG-1 and seasons 1-3,all of em, with a little disappointment from Ford's disappearance, of SGA, and I was even looking forward to season 4. But now, there's not much to look forward to.

Starxgate
February 20th, 2007, 02:13 PM
Soon Atlantis fans will feel Sci-FI's power :P

Sparky13
February 20th, 2007, 02:18 PM
But it isn't. That many cast changes is never good.

I agree completely. If any of us decides to tune in in the fall, we'll find ourselves watching a show so vastly different from the one we bought into three years ago, they might as well change the name.

Wormhole
February 20th, 2007, 02:31 PM
No Ford, No Carson, No Weir. Atlantis will more likely sink then fly.

Sci-Fi has been helping us little by posting our letters. But TPTB just doesn’t want to listen. So we can’t really blame sci-fi for any wrong doing. Unless they do change the times to give it that extra push of the edge:mad: . I’m just going to fill sorry for the third series. To me if they can’t handle the second should they be making a third?

prion
February 20th, 2007, 02:37 PM
No Ford, No Carson, No Weir. Atlantis will more likely sink then fly.

Sci-Fi has been helping us little by posting our letters. But TPTB just doesn’t want to listen. So we can’t really blame sci-fi for any wrong doing. Unless they do change the times to give it that extra push of the edge:mad: . I’m just going to fill sorry for the third series. To me if they can’t handle the second should they be making a third?

Uh, just read the last sentence of this article/interview to see just how much fans opinions count....

Chicago Tribune reporter Maureen Ryan managed to wrangle some responses out of Joe Mallozzi regarding the changes to SGA

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/02/amanda_tapping_.html

Starxgate
February 20th, 2007, 02:37 PM
So we can’t really blame sci-fi for any wrong doing. Unless they do change the times to give it that extra push of the edge

I am fully expecting that Stargate Atlantis will definitely be on the same night & time as Heroes. I think that 24 will probably move its time slot because so far every since Heroes started it has been beating 24 ratings wise. 24 even had a 2 hour special & Heroes still beated it. I definitely am thinking that Sci-Fi will put Stargate Atlantis against Heroes.

knowles2
February 20th, 2007, 02:40 PM
Actually disagree the cast changes are good. The only problem in sg1 they were left to late and should came in earlier, or atleast have the character come in as recurring at first.

Weir disappearing will be a good thing never liked the character.

A other powerful race, just hoped its the Furlings, anyone who watches stargate is interested in the furlings, be nice to see them around and would perhaps bring more viewers over from sg1.

See I never get attracted to character never saw the point.They always said atlantis was gonna be darker than sg1 so far it be lighter but perhaps this is a turning point they are leading up to when the series start to get lot darker and may be adrift is just the start of things to happen.

Weir going.
Rodney Mckay rumar to be getting killed
whats else as they got plan.

I can say everything I here point to this could be the best series yet of SGA may be even the franchise.

But moving it to full is the worst thing they could do I mean canada will probably start airing it earlier hopfully.

I just hoped MGM contract for atlantis is not the same as SG1.

prion
February 20th, 2007, 02:45 PM
.

Weir going.
Rodney Mckay rumar to be getting killed
whats else as they got plan.



A rumor about Rodney getting killed? Uh, why not just cancel the show? WHere did that one start?

PG15
February 20th, 2007, 02:49 PM
For cryin' out loud he's not getting killed!

Do you guys just believe anything you hear? Come on!

prion
February 20th, 2007, 02:59 PM
For cryin' out loud he's not getting killed!

Do you guys just believe anything you hear? Come on!

Well, I just want to know where/when that one started. It would be the stupidest thing to do, next to killing Sheppard. Those two make the show for many of the viewers.

Rodney dies by.... lemon? Orange? Caffeine withdrawal? ;)

The Great Lord Baal
February 20th, 2007, 02:59 PM
Getting rid of carson and ford was bad but this this really dosent phase me as as far as the show goes

DelTrax1
February 20th, 2007, 03:01 PM
Well...it could be pretty refreshing to have Carter take over as the head of Atlantis....I will definitely give it a chance....although...I think Daniel should be there too.

Falcon Horus
February 20th, 2007, 03:02 PM
Rodney dies by.... lemon? Orange? Caffeine withdrawal? ;)

He drinks a lemon-tea and the deal is done.

SGFerrit
February 20th, 2007, 03:12 PM
I am really looking forward to seeing Carter on Atlantis and to finding out who the new race of aliens are. Also it was said in the Chicago Tribune in response to the press release that Tealc would guest star in 1 episode of season 4. But there were no plans for Vala, Daniel or Cam to do so.

I can't wait to see s4, it should be fresh and really reinvigorate my love of Alantis. It is nice to see a show with a dynamic that i forever changing, it took SG-1 a long time to do the same and IMO it started getting quite lack luster before the introduction of the new characters and the Ori. Now that they are doing only 20 eps of 1 show instead of 40 eps of 2 shows, Joe said they would be alot more focused and able to think things through better. This could turn out to be the best season yet.

jenks
February 20th, 2007, 03:34 PM
Uh, just read the last sentence of this article/interview to see just how much fans opinions count....

Chicago Tribune reporter Maureen Ryan managed to wrangle some responses out of Joe Mallozzi regarding the changes to SGA

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/02/amanda_tapping_.html


Good. I'm glad they've taken that stance.

Killdeer
February 20th, 2007, 03:35 PM
But, to me, Weir is an okay character, and is the best choice in her character's role, much better than Carter would be in that role.

I feel the same way. Actually, I feel really depressed. I'm not criticizing those of you who are happy about it - I'm just....so not. :(

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 03:40 PM
Yep. Weir's leaving. But, from the good side of it, at least she isn't being replaced. I'm very much relieved that Carter will not overshadow anyone. It seems as though she will primarily have a scientific role.

Suzotchka
February 20th, 2007, 04:01 PM
Uh, just read the last sentence of this article/interview to see just how much fans opinions count....

Chicago Tribune reporter Maureen Ryan managed to wrangle some responses out of Joe Mallozzi regarding the changes to SGA

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/02/amanda_tapping_.html

TPTB will start to care more when people turn off the show and the ratings drop. Hurt them where it counts - in the pocketbook. At least they can't say they weren't warned.

prion
February 20th, 2007, 04:12 PM
TPTB will start to care more when people turn off the show and the ratings drop. Hurt them where it counts - in the pocketbook. At least they can't say they weren't warned.

inasmuch as I will continue watching untilt he bitter end (or until characters I truly like die or the actors leave), if they screw too much with the formula, yes, they'll lose audience. I think the SG1 writers, who are now in charge of SGA, just can't let go of SG1. It's like a crutch. They can't work with what was developed for SGA, but they need to make its own entity, not just a ripoff of SG1. It's a whole new galaxy, so the vilains, etc. should be NEW.

ozchick
February 20th, 2007, 04:25 PM
I'm surprised that Joe Mallozzi can create anything with his head stuck so far up his .... He can be as creative as he wants but if the fans don't like it, it aint gonna fly.

That said, I will tune in for Season 4 and am not making any assumptions until I see it.

ToasterOnFire
February 20th, 2007, 04:42 PM
Well, I just want to know where/when that one started. It would be the stupidest thing to do, next to killing Sheppard. Those two make the show for many of the viewers.

Rodney dies by.... lemon? Orange? Caffeine withdrawal? ;)
I think that rumor stems from that wikipedia entry where Rodney was stated to die in an early s4 ep only to be resurrected by some Ancient device but missing his soul or something. So no, TPTB aren't killing Rodney off...permanently anyway.

The info has been posted three times and deleted three times for lacking a source. It could be all bunk, but that's an awfully specific piece of info...

prion
February 20th, 2007, 04:43 PM
I think that rumor stems from that wikipedia entry where Rodney was stated to die in an early s4 ep only to be resurrected by some Ancient device but missing his soul or something. So no, TPTB aren't killing Rodney off...permanently anyway.

The info has been posted three times and deleted three times for lacking a source. It could be all bunk, but that's an awfully specific piece of info...

Ah! Thank you!

Cameron Mitchel
February 20th, 2007, 04:46 PM
I think that rumor stems from that wikipedia entry where Rodney was stated to die in an early s4 ep only to be resurrected by some Ancient device but missing his soul or something. So no, TPTB aren't killing Rodney off...permanently anyway.

The info has been posted three times and deleted three times for lacking a source. It could be all bunk, but that's an awfully specific piece of info...
Well, that's WIKIPEDIA FOR YOU.

nowvoyager908
February 20th, 2007, 04:51 PM
I'm surprised that Joe Mallozzi can create anything with his head stuck so far up his .... He can be as creative as he wants but if the fans don't like it, it aint gonna fly.

That said, I will tune in for Season 4 and am not making any assumptions until I see it.


LMAO. Great comment, couldn't agree more. This guy needs a public relations intervention of some sort. Unless he's writing the shows solely just for his own enjoyment, he damn well better take note of fan reaction. Who makes any product for mass consumption without taking customer concerns into account? He must have a creative death wish. Sounds like one of those guys who, if SGA is cancelled prematurely, will blame fans for not "getting" his vision.

Unfortunately, I have already decided about season 4, SGA is dead to me now. :(

PG15
February 20th, 2007, 04:55 PM
See, nothing but bunk.

Heck, I've entertained the idea of posting an unsubstantiated rumor right here on this forum, completely made up, and see how The Fans[tm] react to it.

Like a psychological experiment. ;)

RepliHawk
February 20th, 2007, 06:04 PM
See, nothing but bunk.

Heck, I've entertained the idea of posting an unsubstantiated rumor right here on this forum, completely made up, and see how The Fans[tm] react to it.

Like a psychological experiment. ;)

Sounds clever

Cameron Mitchel
February 20th, 2007, 06:09 PM
I am really looking forward to seeing Carter on Atlantis and to finding out who the new race of aliens are. Also it was said in the Chicago Tribune in response to the press release that Tealc would guest star in 1 episode of season 4. But there were no plans for Vala, Daniel or Cam to do so.

I can't wait to see s4, it should be fresh and really reinvigorate my love of Alantis. It is nice to see a show with a dynamic that i forever changing, it took SG-1 a long time to do the same and IMO it started getting quite lack luster before the introduction of the new characters and the Ori. Now that they are doing only 20 eps of 1 show instead of 40 eps of 2 shows, Joe said they would be alot more focused and able to think things through better. This could turn out to be the best season yet.
Well, good that you'll enjoy it because Carter's coming on the show. Too bad for the rest of us, though.

knowles2
February 21st, 2007, 03:53 AM
A rumor about Rodney getting killed? Uh, why not just cancel the show? WHere did that one start?

Wikipedia and gateworld forums.


For cryin' out loud he's not getting killed!

Do you guys just believe anything you hear? Come on!

No but weir is being put as recurring, interviews keep poping saying characters going to dies. Doodleganger saying is folklore which basically shadow of telling someone going to dies or it give ideas suggestion of to people, and so fourth. Atlantis is in more trouble than ever, I be surprise if a few more do not die over the next season. And the writers said in the past Atlantis was meant to be darker and may its finally going to be getting darker.



Well, I just want to know where/when that one started. It would be the stupidest thing to do, next to killing Sheppard. Those two make the show for many of the viewers.

Rodney dies by.... lemon? Orange? Caffeine withdrawal? ;)


Well...it could be pretty refreshing to have Carter take over as the head of Atlantis....I will definitely give it a chance....although...I think Daniel should be there too.

No one character is enough, and temporary one at that which is also what everyone is forgetting, she only their for little over half of the season. Also I have always found it odd that their never been someone with more experience on Atlantis. So having carter over their be cool. Daniel jackson should make at lease one or two appearances over the next few seasons hopefully, which makes sense with his knowledge and background.



I am really looking forward to seeing Carter on Atlantis and to finding out who the new race of aliens are. Also it was said in the Chicago Tribune in response to the press release that Tealc would guest star in 1 episode of season 4. But there were no plans for Vala, Daniel or Cam to do so.

I can't wait to see s4, it should be fresh and really reinvigorate my love of Alantis. It is nice to see a show with a dynamic that i forever changing, it took SG-1 a long time to do the same and IMO it started getting quite lack luster before the introduction of the new characters and the Ori. Now that they are doing only 20 eps of 1 show instead of 40 eps of 2 shows, Joe said they would be alot more focused and able to think things through better. This could turn out to be the best season yet.

I completely agree it has all the potential of being the best yet, with them having more time, more writers overall, and perhaps just generally a more relaxed atmosphere with no rushing around.


I think that rumor stems from that wikipedia entry where Rodney was stated to die in an early s4 ep only to be resurrected by some Ancient device but missing his soul or something. So no, TPTB aren't killing Rodney off...permanently anyway.

The info has been posted three times and deleted three times for lacking a source. It could be all bunk, but that's an awfully specific piece of info...

Lacking source true but it get a bit credibility through some of the stuff given through the first few details of the first episodes. And it makes sense if they plan to turn the series a lot darker over the next season or two. And really killing of Rodney would be so fun to watch, I surprise he have not died already with all the mistakes he have made in the pass three seasons, and it would bring realism to the show which is lacks when no matter he does their no reaction to it or no consequences, and it be even better if they do not used the magic reset button.



See, nothing but bunk.

Heck, I've entertained the idea of posting an unsubstantiated rumor right here on this forum, completely made up, and see how The Fans[tm] react to it.

Like a psychological experiment. ;)

That is good idea. And good experiment but remember some of the writers post their episode details ideas/ spoilers for the fun of it and to give the audience ideas whats coming in the next season and their reactions, and that why I disagree with people deleting them because their is no source, I know this is done a lot for Lost and even heroes do it, a lot shows are doing it because it cause speculation. So I think people should leave them up until they are disproved, by the creators and so fourth, and it fun to speculate, even with out a source.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 21st, 2007, 05:43 AM
If they really feel that the show is for them to see, I'm fine with it, jsut don't show it on television. We're not here to see the realization of their fantasies. This is science-fiction, not some cheap one-story fan-fiction that requires little to no intelligence. He doesn't care what we think? Fine, but he cares if we watch! I say for one episode of season four, don't watch. THE same ep. everyone, just to see what they would think.

jenks
February 21st, 2007, 07:23 AM
TPTB should concentrate on making the best show possible, they shouldn't be worrying about what a few fans will say on an internet forum before they make every decision. What people don't seem to realise is, the writers don't have a responsibility to keep long time fans happy, they're there to tell great stories, if you don't like them, don't watch. Vowing to never have anything to do with Stargate again just because you haven't got your own way is, imo, very very childish...

FoolishPleasure
February 21st, 2007, 07:35 AM
TPTB should concentrate on making the best show possible, they shouldn't be worrying about what a few fans will say on an internet forum before they make every decision. What people don't seem to realise is, the writers don't have a responsibility to keep long time fans happy, they're there to tell great stories, if you don't like them, don't watch. Vowing to never have anything to do with Stargate again just because you haven't got your own way is, imo, very very childish...

This many changes to an established show feels like an act of desperation. A show going into its 4th year isn't going to dump two regular characters and bring over character(s) from other shows, along with new, young, hawt young things, unless they are worried the show can't stand on its own without SG1, or the Suits at Skiffy are telling them what to do. Just look at how Skiffy has massacred "Dresden Files" into something awful.

After looking over Mallozzi's blog for the past several weeks, I've noticed very small mentions of Skiffy "reviews". Obviously he can't come out and say what is truly going on, but I think he is hinting just where all these terrible changes are coming from.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 21st, 2007, 07:42 AM
No one's saying that they shoyld listen to everything everyone gripes about. But when a lot of people seem to have a problem with something (Something like Weir being written off) and they don't even comment on their decisions, that's when something's wrong. Them getting rid of Beckett was wrong, yes, but that can't be changed, I realize that. But Weir going as well just a couple of episodes later is a problem in my eyes, because it only means that they couldn't write good enough. When they feel they have to kill someone off to get better ratings or to "shake things up", then there's a problem. Because that means they aren't comfortable with their own ability to write well. It means they have to constantly so something different to keep people interested. And, how many people were interested when Beckett died and PM left? If I remember many were pissed. And yes, I realize not watching an entire season based on cast changes is foolish. But I'm not suggesting that. I'm not saying TPTB should do what everyone asks. Yes, fans have many varied opinions. But some requests don't get in the way of others. Getting rid of Weir is something I'm sure most people don't like. Yes, it would mean Carter wouldn't be leader but still, I don't think a "shake up" like that will really help ratings and that's why I question TPTB's actions. Because it seems as though their current path of decisions is only giong to lead to a worst season. I truly feel that these cast changes aren't going to make the show better. I believe just the opposite. I can't stress enough that there have been too many cast changes to actually be healthy for the show, because the show dynamic will change. PM and TH will be gone. Who's next? A new leader, a new CMO, next there will be a new team member. What else? SG-1 was able to survive without the need for shake ups and cast changes for FIVE years. Why is Atlantis so different?

Obviously jenks you are ok with any thing they do on the show, if they were to completely redo the cast you'd be ok with it, right? You'd be ok if they exchanged the SGA cast for the SG-1 cast and rewrote the entire mood of the show just to hang on to their star show, right? You'd be ok if they killed off every one of the SGA cast and replaced them with the SG-1 cast wouldn't you? Because as far as I'm concerned, if a fan feels no need to question such actions when something such as what is stated above happens, then that fan cares nothing about the show and is there just to see somethign that can take up his or her time. Because as a fan, I ask questions and make certain complaints based on what I know to be fact. And the facts are these: PM and TH leaving, AT coming over, Carter possibly being leader; SG-1 cast member given large role on SGA; Atlantis stated to stand on its own apart from SG-1 and now they feel SG-1 has to be apart of Atlantis in order for it to be successful, which is not good. Atlantis SHOULD NOT NEED SG-1 TO BE A SUCCESSFUL SHOW. SUCH A NEED ONLY REFLECTS POORLY ON THE WRITING ABILITY OF TPTB.

SGFerrit
February 21st, 2007, 08:07 AM
Well, good that you'll enjoy it because Carter's coming on the show. Too bad for the rest of us, though.

1. Why thank you for your ever so kind words, I am very happy that you approve!

2. 'The rest of us'. So you speak for EVRYONE here apart from myself? There is absolutely NO ONE other than me who would like to see Carter come to Atlantis here, not a single poster bar me? Wow, I must have imagined the Pro Carter on Atlantis thread! Silly me eh? I'm going to put myself in the Gateworld mental institution now, bye!




She's coming, get over it.

knowles2
February 21st, 2007, 08:23 AM
This many changes to an established show feels like an act of desperation. A show going into its 4th year isn't going to dump two regular characters and bring over character(s) from other shows, along with new, young, hawt young things,

No not really looked at lost one of the biggest shows on tv right now and they bring in new cast all the time, which is keep fresh and new, and hopefully they are doing the same thing to atlantis, new cast members coming and going, could create a new interesting dynamic on the show.

And their seemed to be one rule on that show kill at lease few people a year.
Which add uncertainity to the show and keep on the edge of your seat as any one and I mean any, even Jack could be killed off, which is entertaining knowing this and that one of the reason I watched it the writers are unpredictable, and continue to be, why I quite guest the storyline of a episode of stargate before I even seen it.

Cameron Mitchel
February 21st, 2007, 08:25 AM
1. Why thank you for your ever so kind words, I am very happy that you approve!

2. 'The rest of us'. So you speak for EVRYONE here apart from myself? There is absolutely NO ONE other than me who would like to see Carter come to Atlantis here, not a single poster bar me? Wow, I must have imagined the Pro Carter on Atlantis thread! Silly me eh? I'm going to put myself in the Gateworld mental institution now, bye!




She's coming, get over it.
No, rest of us implies rest of us who don't support Carter coming over, not singling you out.

My message to the writers would be this: The time to test out new stuff is not now. Save the fanfiction for your own spare time. This is science fiction, not fan fiction.

Cameron Mitchel
February 21st, 2007, 08:27 AM
1. Why thank you for your ever so kind words, I am very happy that you approve!

2. 'The rest of us'. So you speak for EVRYONE here apart from myself? There is absolutely NO ONE other than me who would like to see Carter come to Atlantis here, not a single poster bar me? Wow, I must have imagined the Pro Carter on Atlantis thread! Silly me eh? I'm going to put myself in the Gateworld mental institution now, bye!




She's coming, get over it.
Well, say what you want, but I sure hope ratings reflect how bad the show is >Season 4, and I hope the writers understand. I hope Mallozzi understands. If Brad Wright and Robert Cooper were still working on the show, then I bet things wouldn't have turned out like they did.

And, funny thing, most of who I see who support carter's move to SGA are carter fans. not daniel fans, not tealc fans, not vala or mitchell fans. not even oneill fans. I just see carter fans. which leads me to believe that Carter fans really want her on there because she's you alls favorite character (to Carter fans, take no offense). Not because of the made up reasons, which a lot of which have nothing to do with the situation (e.g. 'the IOA appreciate her', or 'she's had good leadership positions before'). Not because she deserved it. Not because she was the best one for the job. Just because she's your favorite character. The SGA fans who care about the characters AND the story AND the show dynamic are the ones who really care about the show. They are the ones who are concerned about the direction the show takes. For all of those who support Carter coming over to SG-1, answer this question. Maybe someone else has already asked this, but answer this question, and please don't ignore it: If SGA and SG-1's places had been reversed, and SGA was the show to be cancelled, and SG-1 lived on, would you agree with Mckay, or another SGA character coming over and replacing Carter, just to make SGA fans happy, to make Mckay fans happy? Please answer that question...

Ltcolshepjumper
February 21st, 2007, 08:29 AM
No not really looked at lost one of the biggest shows on tv right now and they bring in new cast all the time, which is keep fresh and new, and hopefully they are doing the same thing to atlantis, new cast members coming and going, could create a new interesting dynamic on the show.

And their seemed to be one rule on that show kill at lease few people a year.
Which add uncertainity to the show and keep on the edge of your seat as any one and I mean any, even Jack could be killed off, which is entertaining knowing this and that one of the reason I watched it the writers are unpredictable, and continue to be, why I quite guest the storyline of a episode of stargate before I even seen it.

Lost is in a completely different format from Atlantis. Unlike Lost, SGA can't afford to keep changing actors. It doesn't make it fresh. SGA and SG-1 have established casts. These are recurring characters that you can just kill off for your enjoyment. Go ahead, kill off the main cast and replace them with a new one and I guarantee, the show will lose 75% of its viewership. Kill off every main and recurring character (including AT) and see how fast SGA will disappear, because everyone has a particular favorite on the shows and if they are all killed off, what are they there to watch? That's the meaning of character development. Develop a character over the course of time, not kill them off for something new. That's like a little kid who just wants a toy because it has the word "NEW" on it.

SGA isn't the type of show that is suppose to provide you will momentary satisfaction. Its a little deeper than that.

cshawzye
February 21st, 2007, 08:36 AM
Since Beckett is and has always been my favourite of the SGA characters I’m not overly happy about the cast changes. I wish they wouldn’t mess with the wonderful cast they’ve already established. But I don’t want to comment too much on the cast changes because I want to wait to see if they enhance of hurt the quality of the show in s4.

But this …

From Joseph Mallozzi: “I’m sure they are already starting their letter-writing campaigns. But in our case, to be brutally honest, they don’t really have an impact on creative decisions.”

It seems like a bad business decision to me. When it really comes down to it SGA is a product, produced for consumption by us the Sci Fi fans. So, if you’re fans are like your clients it’s like saying we don’t care if you don’t like our product we’re going to go ahead and make it the way we want it to be made. If your clients aren’t happy, in this case if your shows fans loose interest in the show, than eventually there goes your viewers along with their money. Once the money goes it’s not going to be too long before the show goes and than what do they have left to be creative with? Nothing. I know there is no way to please everybody, and I would never expect TPTB to try to appease everyone. But, it seems to me that when masses of people (ie. through letter campagins) are saying the same thing about your product it might be a good idea to take their words and weigh them into your decisions, even if it’s only just a little bit. That’s all just my opinion though.

kymeric
February 21st, 2007, 08:37 AM
QQ some more.

This will be like every big change. Ppl moan and they gripe and they say theyre never gonna watch again. But they always watch. And They always love it. Next Aug everyone whos QQ now will be ranting and raving how good the show is. It happens every time.

Buncha drama queens :-p

Cameron Mitchel
February 21st, 2007, 08:41 AM
Well, say what you want, but I sure hope ratings reflect how bad the show is >Season 4, and I hope the writers understand. I hope Mallozzi understands. If Brad Wright and Robert Cooper were still working on the show, then I bet things wouldn't have turned out like they did.

And, funny thing, most of who I see who support carter's move to SGA are carter fans. not daniel fans, not tealc fans, not vala or mitchell fans. not even oneill fans. I just see carter fans. which leads me to believe that Carter fans really want her on there because she's you alls favorite character (to Carter fans, take no offense). Not because of the made up reasons, which a lot of which have nothing to do with the situation (e.g. 'the IOA appreciate her', or 'she's had good leadership positions before'). Not because she deserved it. Not because she was the best one for the job. Just because she's your favorite character. The SGA fans who care about the characters AND the story AND the show dynamic are the ones who really care about the show. They are the ones who are concerned about the direction the show takes. For all of those who support Carter coming over to SG-1, answer this question. Maybe someone else has already asked this, but answer this question, and please don't ignore it: If SGA and SG-1's places had been reversed, and SGA was the show to be cancelled, and SG-1 lived on, would you agree with Mckay, or another SGA character coming over and replacing Carter, just to make SGA fans happy, to make Mckay fans happy? Please answer that question...
If SGA and SG-1's places had been reversed, and SGA was the show to be cancelled, and SG-1 lived on, would you agree with Mckay, or another SGA character coming over and replacing Carter, just to make SGA fans happy, to make Mckay fans happy? Please answer that question...

SGFerrit
February 21st, 2007, 08:43 AM
but I sure hope ratings reflect how bad the show is >Season 4

FOR GOD SAKES THE EPISODES HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN WRITTEN YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just because some Gateworlders disgaree with the changes doesn't mean it is going to be bad. TPTB can focus on this 1 season of Atlantis much better than they did on season 3 as there will not be an SG-1 season to go with it. I expect the main base of viewers won't mind if a character or two leaves. It happens all the time on TV. Just because there are 30 or 40 people who are very vocal about it on a forum, doesn't mean the show is going to loose loads of ratings.

Cameron Mitchel
February 21st, 2007, 08:44 AM
FOR GOD SAKES THE EPISODES HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN WRITTEN YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just because some Gateworlders disgaree with the changes doesn't mean it is going to be bad. TPTB can focus on this 1 season of Atlantis much better than they did on season 3 as there will not be an SG-1 season to go with it. I expect the main base of viewers won't mind if a character or two leaves. It happens all the time on TV. Just because there are 30 or 40 people who are very vocal about it on a forum, doesn't mean the show is going to loose loads of ratings.
Actually, they already have ideas. Could you answer this question for me?: http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=6356496&postcount=57

SGFerrit
February 21st, 2007, 08:45 AM
If SGA and SG-1's places had been reversed, and SGA was the show to be cancelled, and SG-1 lived on, would you agree with Mckay, or another SGA character coming over and replacing Carter, just to make SGA fans happy, to make Mckay fans happy? Please answer that question...

If it had been reversed? If it had been reversed, then Dr. Lam would have died and been replaced and Landry's role would have been reduced. But we would have gotten to save an Atlantis character, so I think I could have lived with it.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 21st, 2007, 08:45 AM
FOR GOD SAKES THE EPISODES HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN WRITTEN YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just because some Gateworlders disgaree with the changes doesn't mean it is going to be bad. TPTB can focus on this 1 season of Atlantis much better than they did on season 3 as there will not be an SG-1 season to go with it. I expect the main base of viewers won't mind if a character or two leaves. It happens all the time on TV. Just because there are 30 or 40 people who are very vocal about it on a forum, doesn't mean the show is going to loose loads of ratings.

Question.. Do you believe the show would be more interesting if they just killed off the cast on a regular basis and replaced them on a regular basis? Say, one or two cast changes each year? Would the show be more suspenseful? Would you tune in more?

SGFerrit
February 21st, 2007, 08:49 AM
Actually, they already have ideas. Could you answer this question for me?: http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=6356496&postcount=57

I was busy answering when you posted that.

And 'they already have ideas'? Yeah, we can literally sum up what WE know about s4 in a sentance or two. The fact is, we don't know if s4 will be high quality or not, you just ASSUME it will be poor because Weir is being reduced and Carter is coming.

cshawzye
February 21st, 2007, 08:51 AM
Kill off every main and recurring character (including AT) and see how fast SGA will disappear, because everyone has a particular favorite on the shows and if they are all killed off, what are they there to watch?

Very good point. And therein lies the problem. If the characters constitute people's connections to the show than killing them off or reducing their role is going to cut off or reduce the number of ties viewers have to the show. In a show like SGA that is in part, IMO anyway, a character drama killing of characters is a big risk. You risk alienating viewers with every character you kill and/or reduce with no guarantee of re-establishing the lost connections.

SGFerrit
February 21st, 2007, 08:53 AM
Question.. Do you believe the show would be more interesting if they just killed off the cast on a regular basis and replaced them on a regular basis? Say, one or two cast changes each year? Would the show be more suspenseful? Would you tune in more?

TBH, I wouldn't be THAT bothered. Daniel died, and I liked him more than Carson or Elizabeth (Though I do love them too) and I still watched, and enjoyed SG-1. I can understand how some people are upset, but I don't think it will be the end of the show.

BUT TPTB of Atlantis aren't killing off every charcater. They killed off one.

cheese
February 21st, 2007, 09:04 AM
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
*Throws Toys out of pram*
"I'll never watch SGA again!!!"


In conclusion: What is the point of moaning and complaining about rumours and spectulation and possiblities for the future. Why not support the show? Why not wait and see what happens? If it's entertained you in the past why assume that you're not going to be entertained in the future? If you don;t like what happens WHEN it happens then you can complain to your hearts content!
There are parts I detested in SGA this season (Lucius mostly) but spouting off and ranting before the event doesn't do any good at all.

SGFerrit
February 21st, 2007, 09:24 AM
Exactly. People have said Atlantis season 4> is bad and tried to state it as fact. It's totally idiotic. It MAY be bad, but with tptb focussing themselves on a single show, It could also turn out to be the best yet.

People who just throw their dummys out of the pram and say they aren't going to even try season 4 are the only ones loosing out from those actions, no matter how much they say otherwise.

Diesel Vanilla
February 21st, 2007, 09:57 AM
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
*Throws Toys out of pram*
"I'll never watch SGA again!!!"


This isn't solely directed at you... more of a general comment... but as much as I'm sure you are tired of people complaining I'm getting tired of being TOLD that I shouldn't be. I don't see many people telling those who aren't complaining that they should be? My favourite character just got killed off for crying out loud. As much as I'd like to believe he could come back for season 4, the chances are pretty slim. I think I have every right to be pi**ed and thus I will be throwing not only my toys out of my pram, but also my blankey and my pooey nappy.

*shakes rattle in petulance*

flynn1959
February 21st, 2007, 10:17 AM
This isn't solely directed at you... more of a general comment... but as much as I'm sure you are tired of people complaining I'm getting tired of being TOLD that I shouldn't be. I don't see many people telling those who aren't complaining that they should be? My favourite character just got killed off for crying out loud. As much as I'd like to believe he could come back for season 4, the chances are pretty slim. I think I have every right to be pi**ed and thus I will be throwing not only my toys out of my pram, but also my blankey and my pooey nappy.

*shakes rattle in petulance*

Excellent post, why shouldn't we be allowed to bemoan the fact that they have killed off one much loved character and made another re-curring and added a character a lot of people simply do not want on the show. Another thing that I for one do not like the sound of is Mallozzi saying that Carter can take some of DH workload from him. I love Mackay and do not want his workload diminished at all, thank you very much. I sure as heck don't want Sam Carter woodenly spewing his lines.

I don't see why I should watch season four, nothing I have heard about it sounds appealing. I do not blindly follow a show, it has to entertain me and the characters that did that on Atlantis are already gone, or are on the way out the door.

Does that me me a bad fan or simply a discerning customer?

ussrelativity
February 21st, 2007, 10:24 AM
From one perspective, I am a little ticked off, but from another, it just may give a better premiering of the new season overall. Since premiere times for areas outside of the US are later for the new seasons, this time around, since overall, the premiere times will be more similar and less far apart, then perhaps worldwide, more viewers can be brought in. I will state, however, that the new season needs to be much better promoted and scheduled.

Celcool
February 21st, 2007, 10:35 AM
This isn't solely directed at you... more of a general comment... but as much as I'm sure you are tired of people complaining I'm getting tired of being TOLD that I shouldn't be. I don't see many people telling those who aren't complaining that they should be? My favourite character just got killed off for crying out loud. As much as I'd like to believe he could come back for season 4, the chances are pretty slim. I think I have every right to be pi**ed and thus I will be throwing not only my toys out of my pram, but also my blankey and my pooey nappy.

*shakes rattle in petulance*
Ditto.

TheNarims
February 21st, 2007, 11:03 AM
According to the chat with Amanda Tapping last friday, she already has some scripts for season four, so there are some stories already written.

In my opinion it is good that Carter goes to Atlantis. She has been doing research on the technology of the ancients for ten years, McKay only did it for three years.
I think that Carter is somehow even better than Weir. Weir is only a scientist but Carter is both a scientist and a soldier, so she is able to lead both the military and the scientists in Atlantis. Also Carter is a very nice person who is able to handle all different kinds of people.

The new cast that will be on Atlantis now is most likely going to be the cast that Brad Wright wanted from the very beginning, because Corin Nemec said in the German magazine Space View, that Brad Wright always wanted to have Stargate Sg-1 characters in Atlantis and now he is going to do this.

lirenel
February 21st, 2007, 11:51 AM
*pokes head in tentatively* Um, can I just say that I'm going to give season four a chance? I disagree with pretty much everything TPTB are doing, but might as well see what they do with it.

If I hate it, I can always turn it off and console myself with fanfiction that is, at times, better written than the show.

nonniemous
February 21st, 2007, 11:52 AM
The new cast that will be on Atlantis now is most likely going to be the cast that Brad Wright wanted from the very beginning, because Corin Nemec said in the German magazine Space View, that Brad Wright always wanted to have Stargate Sg-1 characters in Atlantis and now he is going to do this.

And therein lies a lot of the problem: Mr. Wright is working with a three-year-old vision of the show that he helped to create. Stargate:Atlantis has developed its own (if of patchy quality) personality and mythos, and CARTER HAD NO PLACE IN THAT DEVELOPMENT. But now they expect to just slot her in, reduce and/or kill other characters to make room for her, and no one's going to mind? She's going to "support" and not "overshadow" any of the regular characters? Her advent is already responsible for the killing of Beckett and Weir's reduction.

But, I forget. I'm simply a fan, and my opinion means nothing. No matter if we fen are legion and lemming and voting with remote controls and dollars against all these changes...

TheNarims
February 21st, 2007, 12:00 PM
What has Carter's arrival to do with Beckett's death? It happened earlier than Carter's arrival and maybe it happened because of the actor. Maybe he wanted to do something else instead of Atlantis.

cajuncayenne
February 21st, 2007, 12:02 PM
The problem I am having is that I watched Atlantis for the Atlantis cast not to see SG1. If I wanted SG1, I would watch them. If they originally wanted SG1 in atlantis then they should have just done it and not simply decimated Atlantis. Yes I am a Huge Carson Beckett fan. I do care about Weir.

To the McKay fans, Joe M said Sam was there to lift the burden from DH because of the intense technobabble .less McKay:mckay:

To the other fans and hinted that other cast may follw Carson and WeirTake your pick?

We are the fans, we are the reason there is a show. If we are unhappy then we should be able to say so. Our opinions should count.

nonniemous
February 21st, 2007, 12:07 PM
What has Carter's arrival to do with Beckett's death? It happened earlier than Carter's arrival and maybe it happened because of the actor. Maybe he wanted to do something else instead of Atlantis.

It's been out forever that this was NOT PM's choice, and confirmed recently by an interview in Starburst magazine. Carson's death was "to shake things up" and because SG1 had been cancelled and TPTB weren't sure SGA wouldn't be as well.

As for Carter's advent causing this? Someone who's been around a show as long as AT has is going to require more salary. So, TPTB axe one character, reduce another, bring in a less-expensive (and totally unrealistic) replacement for #1, give her less air time, and presto, room in the budget for AT.

Cameron Mitchel
February 21st, 2007, 12:12 PM
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
*Throws Toys out of pram*
"I'll never watch SGA again!!!"


In conclusion: What is the point of moaning and complaining about rumours and spectulation and possiblities for the future. Why not support the show? Why not wait and see what happens? If it's entertained you in the past why assume that you're not going to be entertained in the future? If you don;t like what happens WHEN it happens then you can complain to your hearts content!
There are parts I detested in SGA this season (Lucius mostly) but spouting off and ranting before the event doesn't do any good at all.
What about all the Carter fans who did the very same thing two years ago at the start of Season 9? Did you tell them to stop complaining?

TheNarims
February 21st, 2007, 12:30 PM
It's been out forever that this was NOT PM's choice, and confirmed recently by an interview in Starburst magazine. Carson's death was "to shake things up" and because SG1 had been cancelled and TPTB weren't sure SGA wouldn't be as well.

Sorry, we did not know about the interview with the Starburst magazine. Because we did not know this interview I thought that he might have another project.

knowles2
February 21st, 2007, 12:31 PM
And therein lies a lot of the problem: Mr. Wright is working with a three-year-old vision of the show that he helped to create. Stargate:Atlantis has developed its own (if of patchy quality) personality and mythos, and CARTER HAD NO PLACE IN THAT DEVELOPMENT. But now they expect to just slot her in, reduce and/or kill other characters to make room for her, and no one's going to mind? She's not going to "support" and not "overshadow" any of the regular characters? Her advent is already responsible for the killing of Beckett and Weir's reduction.

But, I forget. I'm simply a fan, and my opinion means nothing. No matter if we fen are legion and lemming and voting with remote controls and dollars against all these changes...

Actually she every place being their she earth leading scientist, you thinking of atlantis on it own, which is it not, atlantis is part of the stargate universe created by sg1, and as such after the defeat of the ori and things settle down in this galaxy it would make more sense to send our greatest mind to study atlantis, someone who have spent the last ten years studying reverse engineering alien tech, so in the context of the universe it makes perfect sense to the story line, infact I would be wondering why they have not sent carter after the ori wars.



The problem I am having is that I watched Atlantis for the Atlantis cast not to see SG1. If I wanted SG1, I would watch them. If they originally wanted SG1 in atlantis then they should have just done it and not simply decimated Atlantis. Yes I am a Huge Carson Beckett fan. I do care about Weir.

To the McKay fans, Joe M said Sam was there to lift the burden from DH because of the intense technobabble .less McKay:mckay:

To the other fans and hinted that other cast may follw Carson and WeirTake your pick?

We are the fans, we are the reason there is a show. If we are unhappy then we should be able to say so. Our opinions should count.

We are the minority, a vocal minority but still in the grand scheme of things very much minority who come to these forums and complain or as I am supporting the changes, and if to spicings things up a little. What more important is the general audiences who do not come on here, and frankly Samantha will be more known amongst them than other characters on the Atlantis, simply she been part of the brand, well skiffy and MGM would of wanted someone from sg1 to come over and with her contract which by the they would had to buy her out off anyway it made perfect sense to bring her over.

PG15
February 21st, 2007, 12:49 PM
That is good idea. And good experiment but remember some of the writers post their episode details ideas/ spoilers for the fun of it and to give the audience ideas whats coming in the next season and their reactions, and that why I disagree with people deleting them because their is no source, I know this is done a lot for Lost and even heroes do it, a lot shows are doing it because it cause speculation. So I think people should leave them up until they are disproved, by the creators and so fourth, and it fun to speculate, even with out a source.

I disagree. Having been in the Atlantis Season 3 forum a few weeks ago, unsubstantiated rumors are the absolute worst enemy of fandom since they're propagated like a virus, and cause symptoms such as mass hysteria, a case of the Blame-ys, and anger and frustration.

We don't want to cause heart attacks here.




To the McKay fans, Joe M said Sam was there to lift the burden from DH because of the intense technobabble .less McKay:mckay:


And that was the exact reason why Zelenka was brought in. Should we boo him too?


To the other fans and hinted that other cast may follw Carson and WeirTake your pick?

Ok, I would actually like to see your evidence for this; I don't remember reading about it on Joe's blog.

knowles2
February 21st, 2007, 03:10 PM
I disagree. Having been in the Atlantis Season 3 forum a few weeks ago, unsubstantiated rumors are the absolute worst enemy of fandom since they're propagated like a virus, and cause symptoms such as mass hysteria, a case of the Blame-ys, and anger and frustration.

We don't want to cause heart attacks here.



And that was the exact reason why Zelenka was brought in. Should we boo him too?



Ok, I would actually like to see your evidence for this; I don't remember reading about it on Joe's blog.

but it so fun to watch everyone panic and have a heart attack, it good entertainment, for someone who really do not give a **** if they decide to kill character or two or three or four or as it their show as many as they want to do. After all the rumor was not not even that bad, it actually even had him being bought back alive, a Daniel Jackson trick 101, and so really it should not of cause all the panic hysteria that it did. But it also enjoyable that it did through, and I graduate who ever posted it. And actually having being bought back alive sound so much like somthing producer would do it more than likely it came from them, as someone who really wanted to cause a storm would of put rodney being killed of to make way for Samantha, now that would made waves, and heart attacks.

Now let get back over the wikipedia, and see if I cause heart attack or two.


evil grin on my right now.

only joking off cause.:) :)

Diesel Vanilla
February 21st, 2007, 03:30 PM
but it so fun to watch everyone panic and have a heart attack, it good entertainment, for someone who really do not give a **** if they decide to kill character or two or three or four or as it their show as many as they want to do.

Aaah, so that's why you 'redded' me... you 'don't give a ****'! Oooh I seeeee!!! I'm so sorry to have become so emotionally attached to a character, I do beg your pardon. Is your surname Mallozzi?

Snide remarks out of the way... I am pleased to hear from the news page about season 4 that they will be focusing on some more character-centric eps and bulking out the Wraith. Would be interesting to see how the Wraith develop, especially after Common Ground.

knowles2
February 21st, 2007, 03:38 PM
Well guest my secret out.

noped, my surname is knowles, yeah such a original user name.

good we see wraoth developed.

Although than likely we will just see them line up get killed by shepherd and gang, or will they have brain cell this season and show us their real abilities and tactics and show how they defeated the ancients.

Through I hope we get more on that common ground wraith he was cool.

PG15
February 21st, 2007, 03:38 PM
No actually, I think you should do it. :D

prion
February 21st, 2007, 03:44 PM
If they really feel that the show is for them to see, I'm fine with it, jsut don't show it on television. We're not here to see the realization of their fantasies. This is science-fiction, not some cheap one-story fan-fiction that requires little to no intelligence. He doesn't care what we think? Fine, but he cares if we watch! I say for one episode of season four, don't watch. THE same ep. everyone, just to see what they would think.

Alas, we've seen some of their fantasies, such as when Sam and that lab tech had the cat fight (that Felger episode). Yech.

Agent_Dark
February 21st, 2007, 04:30 PM
Alas, we've seen some of their fantasies, such as when Sam and that lab tech had the cat fight (that Felger episode). Yech.

Yeah and the ep were McKay kissed Beckett (that body swap episode). Yech.

All hail the USAF
February 21st, 2007, 05:41 PM
ya know whats funny? the same people who are crying because the Apollo wasn't a new class of ship are crying that Carter is going to be on Atlantis...It's all the same universe...Carter is a strong and stable character...I know it's not Stargate Atlantis: SG1 but it's not Star Trek: Atlantis either

kinzeb
February 21st, 2007, 09:28 PM
What about all the Carter fans who did the very same thing two years ago at the start of Season 9?


I also have been wondering why everyone seems to have forgotten this.

Uber
February 21st, 2007, 09:33 PM
What about all the Carter fans who did the very same thing two years ago at the start of Season 9? Did you tell them to stop complaining?


I also have been wondering why everyone seems to have forgotten this.I'll tell you what happened. We were told to give the show a chance. So we did...and some liked it and some hated it.

I imagine the same will happen here. Some will love what happens and some will hate it.

travis
February 21st, 2007, 10:06 PM
ya know whats funny? the same people who are crying because the Apollo wasn't a new class of ship are crying that Carter is going to be on Atlantis...It's all the same universe...Carter is a strong and stable character...I know it's not Stargate Atlantis: SG1 but it's not Star Trek: Atlantis either

Its DSN Atlantis:P

Pitry
February 22nd, 2007, 11:32 AM
This many changes to an established show feels like an act of desperation. A show going into its 4th year isn't going to dump two regular characters and bring over character(s) from other shows, along with new, young, hawt young things, unless they are worried the show can't stand on its own without SG1, or the Suits at Skiffy are telling them what to do. Just look at how Skiffy has massacred "Dresden Files" into something awful.

After looking over Mallozzi's blog for the past several weeks, I've noticed very small mentions of Skiffy "reviews". Obviously he can't come out and say what is truly going on, but I think he is hinting just where all these terrible changes are coming from.

Well, look at it that way - the way Skiffy are behaving it feels like SGA won't survive past season 4 no matter what the ratings are at any rate, and then I'd be extermely surprised if they're interested in spin off #3... so this year has a very strnog chance of being the last to be screwed by them.

Here's for hoping spin off #3 will find a differnet network. Mayeb it'll be SG: Ghosts and bring everything back.

Cameron Mitchel
February 22nd, 2007, 12:15 PM
ya know whats funny? the same people who are crying because the Apollo wasn't a new class of ship are crying that Carter is going to be on Atlantis...It's all the same universe...Carter is a strong and stable character...I know it's not Stargate Atlantis: SG1 but it's not Star Trek: Atlantis either
really? Cuz, I don't think I was crying because the Apollo wasn't a new class of ship. And, I'm not crying now. And, what does Star Trek have to do with anything ( no one said they wanted Atlantis to be Star Trek)? stick to the topic, please.

All hail the USAF
February 22nd, 2007, 02:13 PM
really? Cuz, I don't think I was crying because the Apollo wasn't a new class of ship. And, I'm not crying now. And, what does Star Trek have to do with anything ( no one said they wanted Atlantis to be Star Trek)? stick to the topic, please.

I think it's very on topic...my point about star trek was that everytime theres a rumor about a new ship theres an outcry for a new class and if that happend all of a sudden you have a United Earth Star Fleet...My point with all this is the same people who want a change THAT drastic are also upset that Sam is coming to Atlantis

Killdeer
February 22nd, 2007, 04:36 PM
I think it's very on topic...my point about star trek was that everytime theres a rumor about a new ship theres an outcry for a new class and if that happend all of a sudden you have a United Earth Star Fleet...My point with all this is the same people who want a change THAT drastic are also upset that Sam is coming to Atlantis

Ummmm, noooooo...<confused look>. I'm upset about Carter coming over and I couldn't care less about the ships. I don't get how the two are connected.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 22nd, 2007, 05:09 PM
I think it's very on topic...my point about star trek was that everytime theres a rumor about a new ship theres an outcry for a new class and if that happend all of a sudden you have a United Earth Star Fleet...My point with all this is the same people who want a change THAT drastic are also upset that Sam is coming to Atlantis

That's not true. I didn't care if Apollo was better than Daedalus. In fact, I stated it was a 304. But, I don't want Carter to be on atlantis. specifically, I don't want her to replace Weir. Her being on atlantis for 14 eps is something I could get used to. Her being commander of Atlantis is something I can't get used to.

Jackie
February 22nd, 2007, 06:08 PM
I noticed there are a lot of "I want, I don't want Carter tooo.....blah, blah, blah.

Just remember that the show belongs to MGM not us. What you WANT and what you DON"T WANT is irrelevant to MGM and Skiffy.

However, the huge cast changes for a show that if 4 years old is a worrisome sign. I'm glad that AT gets to work on SGA but I am concerned about the general direction of the show and story arc.

If SGA can't put together a real overall story arc there will not be a season 5.

Chricton
February 22nd, 2007, 08:34 PM
I am fully expecting that Stargate Atlantis will definitely be on the same night & time as Heroes. I think that 24 will probably move its time slot because so far every since Heroes started it has been beating 24 ratings wise. 24 even had a 2 hour special & Heroes still beated it. I definitely am thinking that Sci-Fi will put Stargate Atlantis against Heroes.

Yet 24 is still having its highest rated season ever, dispite heavier competition. The Prison Break & 24 combo also often average a better 18-49 rating than the other stations. So no, 24 isn't moving anytime soon. If Atlantis moves there, it could possibly be the worst timeslot change, ever. Heroes is the biggest Scifi audience draw since the X-Files was in its prime. Trying to compete with it is suicide.

Vespasianus
February 22nd, 2007, 11:39 PM
I hope the producers know what they are doing. But it doesn't really matter, I'll watch Season 4 anyway, I'm an Atlantis fan. :) As long as they don't come up with fairytale-stuff (like they did in the first half of season 10), I'll support the show, but since I'm Hungarian, I'll have no influence on ratings.

You, my American friends: please, pleeease watch the show, so that they can make a Season 5!

scarimor
February 23rd, 2007, 01:50 AM
I'm looking forward to season 4 more than ever. The last ep really set up some potential, imo. And it's great that Carter's going to be there.

prion
February 23rd, 2007, 08:56 AM
I noticed there are a lot of "I want, I don't want Carter tooo.....blah, blah, blah.

Just remember that the show belongs to MGM not us. What you WANT and what you DON"T WANT is irrelevant to MGM and Skiffy.

However, the huge cast changes for a show that if 4 years old is a worrisome sign. I'm glad that AT gets to work on SGA but I am concerned about the general direction of the show and story arc.

If SGA can't put together a real overall story arc there will not be a season 5.

Well, of course the fans of the show are irrevelant. Mallozzi said so.

But the fact that they can't work with what they ahve and feel they must import characters from another show to boost SGA is a bad sign. The trouble is the writers, who should be replaced, not characters.

For me, SGA would be much more enjoyable without carter on it - I like the character but she does not belong on SGA - instead, we lose weir. If they can't write for weir, why should they write for carter any better? Oh wait (insert sarcasm) she'll just talk science technobabble....

prion
February 23rd, 2007, 09:00 AM
Ummmm, noooooo...<confused look>. I'm upset about Carter coming over and I couldn't care less about the ships. I don't get how the two are connected.

I think only fans obsessed with spaceships are concerned with the Apollo ;) it's just another spaceship they'll probably blow up. the writers like to blow up ships in SG. :rolleyes:

flynn1959
February 23rd, 2007, 09:28 AM
I think only fans obsessed with spaceships are concerned with the Apollo ;) it's just another spaceship they'll probably blow up. the writers like to blow up ships in SG. :rolleyes:

I can think of something for them to blow up! Carter! They did it with Carson. That could really shake things up in season four, bring Carter over, blow her up and let her spend the rest of the seaosn as a disembodied voice. They could get some sound-alike actress and save enough money to bring back the characters we really want to see.

That way everyone is happy, we get Weir and Carson back and they get to keep Carter at a fraction of the price!!

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 09:29 AM
As for anyone who agrees with TPTB's decisions and thinks this new change is good because it add "fresh blood" to the cast: Carter is NOT fresh blood; she's had 10 years and by the end of Season four, 11 years. 11 YEARS apart of the Stargate franchise. As opposeed to the SGA cast who have had at most 3 years ( two for Jason Momoa). So, tptb say there will be more character development? Really? two former cast members have already been axed without recieving proper development. Who else?

Uber
February 23rd, 2007, 10:30 AM
As for anyone who agrees with TPTB's decisions and thinks this new change is good because it add "fresh blood" to the cast: Carter is NOT fresh blood; she's had 10 years and by the end of Season four, 11 years. 11 YEARS apart of the Stargate franchise. As opposeed to the SGA cast who have had at most 3 years ( two for Jason Momoa). So, tptb say there will be more character development? Really? two former cast members have already been axed without recieving proper development. Who else?Ah but as so many are so quick to say...she's not from SGA and therefore those who primarily or only know the SGA characters only know what's been said of her or what they've seen of her the couple times she's been on SGA.

The thing is it's the best of both worlds here; meaning she's an established and popular character on SG-1, so not much time has to be spent on her backstory and she's "fresh blood" in the show and can add a new and different twist to the existing dynamic.

Amanda is excited about the prospects of thrusting Carter into an unknown scenario and seeing how she and the other characters will respond to the change in the dynamic and I and many others share her enthusiasm at the prospect.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 10:58 AM
Ah but as so many are so quick to say...she's not from SGA and therefore those who primarily or only know the SGA characters only know what's been said of her or what they've seen of her the couple times she's been on SGA.

The thing is it's the best of both worlds here; meaning she's an established and popular character on SG-1, so not much time has to be spent on her backstory and she's "fresh blood" in the show and can add a new and different twist to the existing dynamic.

Amanda is excited about the prospects of thrusting Carter into an unknown scenario and seeing how she and the other characters will respond to the change in the dynamic and I and many others share her enthusiasm at the prospect.

No matter how you try to put it, she's not fresh blood. As well, I don't get what you mean when you say, best of BOTH worlds. And she isn't fresh blood because she's been mentioned/shown to death on SGA, so no, not fresh blood, and it isn't guaranteed that she will add a new dynamic to the show. What dynamics do you have in mind? What twist could she possibly add? Hopefully tptb are realistic and don't just make the SGA team accept and trust her commanding the city. And Amanda's excitement has nothing to do with this.

Uber
February 23rd, 2007, 11:05 AM
Well, of course the fans of the show are irrevelant. Mallozzi said so.No he didn't. He made it clear what he said...that of course fans are important but essentially that, if TPTB are set on going in a certain direction, no letter or gimmick campaign will get them to change course.
But the fact that they can't work with what they ahve and feel they must import characters from another show to boost SGA is a bad sign. The trouble is the writers, who should be replaced, not characters.It is troubling. I think it's clear though that they're trying to tighten up the production anyway they can to keep it going. It could be incredibly cool or a big mess.
For me, SGA would be much more enjoyable without carter on it - I like the character but she does not belong on SGA -I think that's a bit premature. We don't know whether she belongs or not. I think she could fit quite nicely but I need to see it before I can make a judgment one way or the other.
instead, we lose weir. If they can't write for weir, why should they write for carter any better? Well first of all, they're completely different characters. That's like saying, if they can't write for Daniel then why should they write for Zelenka any better.

Also, my sense is that the writers didn't know what to do with Weir, usually giving her dialog that could have been read by pretty much anyone. Carter, being a well-rounded character, should be a lot easier for them to write for.
Oh wait (insert sarcasm) she'll just talk science technobabble....I doubt it. She's a multifaceted character who, though I have no doubt will have a technobabble moment or two next year, it won't be her primary function. As I recall, her ability to back up McKay/Radek with the science stuff was only one of the things Joe Mallozzi said she'd be able to do there. Another was backing up Shep and his team on missions. It makes a heck of a lot more sense having someone with her extensive field experience backing them up than having Weir do it.

Uber
February 23rd, 2007, 11:12 AM
No matter how you try to put it, she's not fresh blood. As well, I don't get what you mean when you say, best of BOTH worlds. And she isn't fresh blood because she's been mentioned/shown to death on SGA, so no, not fresh blood, and it isn't guaranteed that she will add a new dynamic to the show. What dynamics do you have in mind? What twist could she possibly add? Hopefully tptb are realistic and don't just make the SGA team accept and trust her commanding the city.She's fresh to SGA. She'll be a new character there and therefore adds a fresh twist to the existing dynamic.

And while she's been mentioned quite a bit, she's not there yet as an entity that will regularly interact with the others. Oh and that's actually very smart of TPTB to do that. Establishing her existence and value to the expedition for the audience in advance. That way, when she does show up, it won't be quite as jarring as say having a new person appear out of nowhere and being told repeatedly how important that person has always been even though we've never seen nor heard of them.

And I don't know what she'll add until I see it. I just know that with Amanda and Carter, the potential is there.
And Amanda's excitement has nothing to do with this.Yikes. Calm down kemosabe. I never said it did. I was only sharing the fact that the actress is excited about the potential here and that many of her fans share in that excitement. Does everything have to be a debate point?

flynn1959
February 23rd, 2007, 11:17 AM
Roll up and see the fresh new character on Atlantis, Carter... fresh as last weeks stale loaf of bread. Yuk!

We lost Carson and Wier for that! What a waste.

vaberella
February 23rd, 2007, 11:25 AM
Does everything have to be a debate point?

Apparently it does.

Nothing is set in stone as of yet, we have confirmation for minute things rather than knowing the big picture, hence the reason that S4 is going to be filmed in a months time (or so). I don't even think they have the scripts all written.

From the tone, people are becoming unhinged without full knowledge-----I can see why the term "shrill and ill-informed" lemmings is used. :mckay:

Uber
February 23rd, 2007, 11:51 AM
Roll up and see the fresh new character on Atlantis, Carter... fresh as last weeks stale loaf of bread. Yuk!Wait...you mean you don't like Carter??? Wow. I'm stunned. STUNNED I tell you. I mean, you've been so muted in your feelings about her so far. :rolleyes:

And sorry...but yes. She would be a fresh face on Atlantis. As several of the SGA purists are wont to say, she's not from Atlantis. She can't help but add a new dynamic to the show and the cast just by her mere presence.
We lost Carson and Wier for that! What a waste.Yes. Because the two are inextricably linked, right?

;)

So...a position opens up in your office because your friend is fired, has to leave for personal reasons or another reason you're not aware of and the big bosses hire someone else to take your friend's place. Is it then that someone's fault that your friend was fired or quit or whatever?

If they are getting rid of Torri for whatever reason, that does not mean it's the fault of the person they choose to take her place (if that is indeed what they're doing). It means that for whatever reason they don't think Weir works or can continue to work, or they have a different idea for the show that she can't fit in or whatever. Fact is, we don't know, do we?

We don't know the score, don't know what kind of internal politics/issues if any are involved and jumping to conclusions like that can only make people look like clueless reactionaries.

BTW...what the heck does Beckett have to do with Carter? I can see Sam poised to be put in charge of the city but to the best of my knowledge, she was never considered for filling that role.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 11:54 AM
Wait...you mean you don't like Carter??? Wow. I'm stunned. STUNNED I tell you. I mean, you've been so muted in your feelings about her so far. :rolleyes:

And sorry...but yes. She would be a fresh face on Atlantis. As several of the SGA purists are wont to say, she's not from Atlantis. She can't help but add a new dynamic to the show and the cast just by her mere presence.Yes. Because the two are inextricably linked, right?

;)

So...a position opens up in your office because your friend is fired, has to leave for personal reasons or another reason you're not aware of and the big bosses hire someone else to take your friend's place. Is it then that someone's fault that your friend was fired or quit or whatever?

If they are getting rid of Torri for whatever reason, that does not mean it's the fault of the person they choose to take her place (if that is indeed what they're doing). It means that for whatever reason they don't think Weir works or can continue to work, or they have a different idea for the show that she can't fit in or whatever. Fact is, we don't know, do we?

We don't know the score, don't know what kind of internal politics/issues if any are involved and jumping to conclusions like that can only make people look like clueless reactionaries.

BTW...what the heck does Beckett have to do with Carter? I can see Sam poised to be put in charge of the city but to the best of my knowledge, she was never considered for filling that role.

First, fresh compared to who? you obviously can't remember the many times she has been shown on SGA, including GUP and M&MM. Fresh? I don't think so. Again, what new dynamic could she add? I'm not asking for you to state that there's possibility. I'm asking for you to give some examples of what she could add. The only "dynamics" that I could imagine would be dynamics that have been present on SG-1 for the past 10 years.

Uber
February 23rd, 2007, 12:01 PM
First, fresh compared to who? you obviously can't remember the many times she has been shown on SGA, including GUP and M&MM. Fresh? I don't think so. Please don't presume to gage my knowledge of SGA. I know exactly what episodes she's been in and the other episodes where she or her contributions are acknowledged.

She's "fresh" compared to another SGA cast member. For instance, if Caldwell were put in charge of the city and the producers said that he was a fresh face, then that would be false. Granted, he'd add a fresh dynamic to the way the city was run, as it had always been under Weir's management and his leadership style would have been new and different from what people are used to.

So yes, she's fresh because she'll be new to the expedition and can only serve to shake up what the existing dynamic is. Further, for those of us who are both SG-1 and SGA fans like I am, we'll get to see someone we know having to make new friends and face new challenges in a new setting.
And, what new dynamic could she add? The only "dynamics" that I could imagine would be dynamics that have been present on SG-1 for the past 10 years.Well as I said before, I don't know exactly what she'll add.

But the very fact that she's working with new people in a new setting with new responsibilities negates the possibility of her being exactly the same as she was on SG-1.

vaberella
February 23rd, 2007, 12:10 PM
BTW...what the heck does Beckett have to do with Carter? I can see Sam poised to be put in charge of the city but to the best of my knowledge, she was never considered for filling that role.

I don't know. At this point, I sense a lot of reaching, whinging, whining, and dare I say it...lemming!:mckay: :D

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 12:13 PM
I don't know. At this point, I sense a lot of reaching, whinging, whining, and dare I say it...lemming!:mckay: :D

Tell me, vaberella, what WOULDN'T you like to see happen on the show? Hmm?

prion
February 23rd, 2007, 12:45 PM
It's been out forever that this was NOT PM's choice, and confirmed recently by an interview in Starburst magazine. Carson's death was "to shake things up" and because SG1 had been cancelled and TPTB weren't sure SGA wouldn't be as well.

As for Carter's advent causing this? Someone who's been around a show as long as AT has is going to require more salary. So, TPTB axe one character, reduce another, bring in a less-expensive (and totally unrealistic) replacement for #1, give her less air time, and presto, room in the budget for AT.

Realistically, they do have a budget. THey're not going to add another regular cast member. (nor will you see the producers let one penny leave their salaries). They'll reduce one ator, then add one in. Beckett was a regular - Keller will be recurring (aka paid less, at writer's whim for when they need her). Weir will now be in teh same position. Whereas before Weir was a main character, now they'll call up the actress and ask if she can do an episode. Before, it was a weekly thing.


As for anyone who agrees with TPTB's decisions and thinks this new change is good because it add "fresh blood" to the cast: Carter is NOT fresh blood; she's had 10 years and by the end of Season four, 11 years. 11 YEARS apart of the Stargate franchise. As opposeed to the SGA cast who have had at most 3 years ( two for Jason Momoa). So, tptb say there will be more character development? Really? two former cast members have already been axed without recieving proper development. Who else?

Uh, carter isn't fresh. No insult to the actress (whom I ilke) or the charater (who is okay) but no, she's not fresh. After a decade of watching carter, her development hasn't been, well, it's not a lot. She's being brought over basically to lure SG1 fans who would not watch SGA (yes, yes, please go back and find your posts of "I"ll never watch SGA - it will kill SG1!" and I say this in a McKay snarkish tone - they're there). It's marketing. The writers love her. THey don't have to use their brain cells to create new dialogue as they'll just revamp the same old technobabble. I don't see ANY development for Carter. It's the same writers, and worse, we've lost at least one freelance writer who gave us some good SGA eps. Instead, we'll have Mallozzi retreading his old scripts.




Also, my sense is that the writers didn't know what to do with Weir, usually giving her dialog that could have been read by pretty much anyone. Carter, being a well-rounded character, should be a lot easier for them to write for.I doubt it. She's a multifaceted character who, though I have no doubt will have a technobabble moment or two next year, it won't be her primary function. As I recall, her ability to back up McKay/Radek with the science stuff was only one of the things Joe Mallozzi said she'd be able to do there. Another was backing up Shep and his team on missions. It makes a heck of a lot more sense having someone with her extensive field experience backing them up than having Weir do it.


Please don't presume to gage my knowledge of SGA. I know exactly what episodes she's been in and the other episodes where she or her contributions are acknowledged.

She's "fresh" compared to another SGA cast member. For instance, if Caldwell were put in charge of the city and the producers said that he was a fresh face, then that would be false. Granted, he'd add a fresh dynamic to the way the city was run, as it had always been under Weir's management and his leadership style would have been new and different from what people are used to.

So yes, she's fresh because she'll be new to the expedition and can only serve to shake up what the existing dynamic is. Further, for those of us who are both SG-1 and SGA fans like I am, we'll get to see someone we know having to make new friends and face new challenges in a new setting.Well as I said before, I don't know exactly what she'll add.

But the very fact that she's working with new people in a new setting with new responsibilities negates the possibility of her being exactly the same as she was on SG-1.

So why would the writers do any better with carter than with weir?? And I'm so tired of 'shake up'. It's like the 'fresh' that was applied to Jonas when he came on board. I feel like I'm stuck in a tV ad for toilet bowl fresheners and chicken crumbs ;)

Wha'ts going to truly make or break the series is the talent of the writers - or the unimaginative lack thereof - which has shown brightly in the fact they think bringing a character from another show over will make a difference. Wel,l it might, to those Sam fans who would watch her read the phone book ;) (and I'm quoting a Sam fan on that) ;)

PG15
February 23rd, 2007, 12:52 PM
Well, of course the fans of the show are irrevelant. Mallozzi said so.


Look, no matter how much you want to be irrelevent, Joe did not say that.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 12:52 PM
He didn't say it but he meant it.

PG15
February 23rd, 2007, 12:58 PM
Proof? Or do you have the sudden ability to read his mind?

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 12:58 PM
Look, no matter how much you want to be irrelevent, Joe did not say that.
Why would anyone be complaining about being irrelevant if they wanted to be? Please keep the sarcasm to yourself (if it's going to put down someone else, don't say it at all).

PG15
February 23rd, 2007, 01:00 PM
Fine.

Now tell that to the rest of forum. :p

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 01:01 PM
Proof? Or do you have the sudden ability to read his mind?

Tell me, PG15, what does "they[the fans] don’t really have any impact on creative decisions" mean to you?

ShaneMcC
February 23rd, 2007, 01:03 PM
After lurking here on GateWorld for more than a year, I can no longer resist posting.

In regards to the cast changes:

I do not like the changes that has happened to SGA.

IMHO it is all about getting certain fans to follow their favorite character to other shows. I personally think there was nothing wrong with SGA, but look at this from their prespective. SG-1 ending. Not all SG-1 fans watch SGA so what better way to get them to watch than to transplant a "key" character over to SGA. And yes, if you read the many threads at GateWorld there are plenty of fans that did not watch SGA and are now planning on doing so because of Amanda Tapping.

That being said, IMHO, the same thing was done with SG-1 after season 8. Add major characters from another Sci-fi show to bring their fans to SG-1. Nothing againest FS/BB/CB but just how well did that turn out??

No matter how we feel about it, IMHO, the boys are playing a their hand of cards that has been dealt to them with the emphasis on shuffling.

Bottom line- fans blindly following their favorite charactors/actors to another show.

Lemmings anyone??

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 01:05 PM
Please don't presume to gage my knowledge of SGA. I know exactly what episodes she's been in and the other episodes where she or her contributions are acknowledged.

She's "fresh" compared to another SGA cast member. For instance, if Caldwell were put in charge of the city and the producers said that he was a fresh face, then that would be false. Granted, he'd add a fresh dynamic to the way the city was run, as it had always been under Weir's management and his leadership style would have been new and different from what people are used to.

So yes, she's fresh because she'll be new to the expedition and can only serve to shake up what the existing dynamic is. Further, for those of us who are both SG-1 and SGA fans like I am, we'll get to see someone we know having to make new friends and face new challenges in a new setting.Well as I said before, I don't know exactly what she'll add.

But the very fact that she's working with new people in a new setting with new responsibilities negates the possibility of her being exactly the same as she was on SG-1.
The fact is, that responsibility (...the one that puts her in charge of Atlantis) is beyond her level. If they never did this in SG-1 (give her this much responsibility), why do it know? The last three seasons of SG-1 didn't build her up to this lvl of responsibility, so what did? matter of fact, I'm surprised why she never truly commanded the SGC (that time where General Landry put her in charge is considered "watching over" the base?

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 01:05 PM
After lurking here on GateWorld for more than a year, I can no longer resist posting.

In regards to the cast changes:

I do not like the changes that has happened to SGA.

IMHO it is all about getting certain fans to follow their favorite character to other shows. I personally think there was nothing wrong with SGA, but look at this from their prespective. SG-1 ending. Not all SG-1 fans watch SGA so what better way to get them to watch than to transplant a "key" character over to SGA. And yes, if you read the many threads at GateWorld there are plenty of fans that did not watch SGA and are now planning on doing so because of Amanda Tapping.

That being said, IMHO, the same thing was done with SG-1 after season 8. Add major characters from another Sci-fi show to bring their fans to SG-1. Nothing againest FS/BB/CB but just how well did that turn out??

No matter how we feel about it, IMHO, the boys are playing a their hand of cards that has been dealt to them with the emphasis on shuffling.

Bottom line- fans blindly following their favorite charactors/actors to another show.

Lemmings anyone??

Nice first post. Welcome.

PG15
February 23rd, 2007, 01:07 PM
Tell me, PG15, what does "they[the fans] don’t really have any impact on creative decisions" mean to you?

It means to me exactly what it says, that it's unlikely that the fans will be able to contribute creatively to the overall direction of the show.

Have you read the explanations Joe has given for his comment? I suggest you do if you haven't.

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 01:09 PM
After lurking here on GateWorld for more than a year, I can no longer resist posting.

In regards to the cast changes:

I do not like the changes that has happened to SGA.

IMHO it is all about getting certain fans to follow their favorite character to other shows. I personally think there was nothing wrong with SGA, but look at this from their prespective. SG-1 ending. Not all SG-1 fans watch SGA so what better way to get them to watch than to transplant a "key" character over to SGA. And yes, if you read the many threads at GateWorld there are plenty of fans that did not watch SGA and are now planning on doing so because of Amanda Tapping.

That being said, IMHO, the same thing was done with SG-1 after season 8. Add major characters from another Sci-fi show to bring their fans to SG-1. Nothing againest FS/BB/CB but just how well did that turn out??

No matter how we feel about it, IMHO, the boys are playing a their hand of cards that has been dealt to them with the emphasis on shuffling.

Bottom line- fans blindly following their favorite charactors/actors to another show.

Lemmings anyone??
That statement deserves green. Why everyone? Because that seems like the most realistic statement about this whole situation. Argue against me if you will, but that's the whole point to it. TPTB believe if they shuffle Carter over to SGA, then it'll boost ratings and bring more popularity to the show. I don't think that's a bad thing, but at the cost of another character?! I don't agree with that. And, the fact remains that Dr. Weir didn't have to be demoted to recurring. She didn't have to be, they wanted her to be, so they could make Carter the lead of Atlantis, putting her in the spotlight.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 01:10 PM
It means to me exactly what it says, that it's unlikely that the fans will be able to contribute creatively to the overall direction of the show.

Have you read the explanations Joe has given for his comment? I suggest you do if you haven't.

Direct me to them and I will read it.

PG15
February 23rd, 2007, 01:15 PM
Well, you know where his blog is, so I'll just post the important parts (regarding the article):


Got a call from the lovely Maureen Ryan over at the Chicago Tribune today. The SciFi press release on season 4 went out and, naturally, she had a few questions. Unfortunately, I find myself in a bit of a bind. While news is already out regarding certain aspects of the show's fourth season, the back half of the third season has yet to air - on SciFi - and so, I find myself having to walk a fine line - clarifying points that have already become public knowledge while avoiding direct commentary on major developments from episodes that have yet to air. On SciFi. Poor Maureen. As a result, her interview had a lot of: "Mallozzi didn't want to be specific", "Mallozzi would not confirm", and "Mallozzi would neither confirm nor deny". All in all, suitably vague although I'm sure the more determined of anti-season 4 fans will find something in it to grouse about.




Anonymous #2 writes: “Just on your comment recently that basically no amount of mail is going to influence your decisions, does that mean that you didn't appreciate all the "Save SG1" people? Because they were writing letters. Or is it just that you don't like people writing letters when they disagree with your casting decisions?”

Answer: Of course we make the shows for fans of the show and count on their support. And, every so often, fan reaction to certain aspects of the show may influence scripts (look no further than 200 for a good example). However, there has never been a time when a fan campaign has led to a change in the show‘s direction. One of the key elements of the Stargate’s success has been the vision of the creative behind the scenes - and Brad Wright and Robert Cooper in particular. I’m sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings but, from the beginning, the choices made have never been based on fan requests, no matter how pointed. Rob and Brad simply made a show that they would enjoy watching and, in the end, it resulted in one of the longest running science fiction shows in television history. Of course we aren’t perfect. Some decisions may pay off while others may not, but in the long run the choices made have been our own and have helped strengthen the franchise. As Brad pointed out in a recent interview, we would never do anything to harm the show. Furthermore, by the time word gets out about any changes we’ve made to the show, we have already moved on and are deep into production.



Arctic Goddess writes: “Mallozzi: "The heartache and the anger – fans would save themselves a lot of that if they would wait and watch the episodes. I’m sure they are already starting their letter-writing campaigns. But in our case, to be brutally honest, they don’t really have any impact on creative decisions.” Say it ain't so, Joe,

Answer: I’m afraid it is so. With regard to the first part of my statement: Of course some fans will be upset but I would argue that there have been many instances in the past where fans have reacted negatively to spoilers and then tuned in and been, if not pleasantly surprised, then not quite so enraged as they expected. As for the second part of my statement: Like I said, I was being brutally honest which, obviously, can be an extremely unpopular position to take. Letter writing campaigns are great in that they are an expression of fan passion and they offer us insights into what fans want to see, but they are not going to cause us to unmake a major decision at this stage and it would be disingenuous to lead you on and make you believe otherwise. While I could say that I’d like nothing better than to craft every step of Atlantis’s fourth season in response to fan requests and demands, developing relationships and storylines based on the most recent online polls, that’s not the way t.v. works. And Stargate isn’t the exception in this regard. There is a big difference between producing a show for our viewers (which we all do), and allowing online fan critiques and letter-writing campaigns to determine how a series progresses. In all fairness, a decision that may prove incredibly unpopular with one section of fandom may prove popular with another. Ultimately, rather than having it come down to which faction makes the most noise, we are basing our creative decisions on what is best for the show. Believe it or not.

Night Spring
February 23rd, 2007, 01:25 PM
Well, you know where his blog is, so I'll just post the important parts (regarding the article):
Um? When someone asks you to direct them somewhere, wouldn't it be safe to assume they don't know where it is? *puzzled*

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 01:28 PM
Well, you know where his blog is, so I'll just post the important parts (regarding the article):


Anonymous #2 writes: “Just on your comment recently that basically no amount of mail is going to influence your decisions, does that mean that you didn't appreciate all the "Save SG1" people? Because they were writing letters. Or is it just that you don't like people writing letters when they disagree with your casting decisions?”

Answer: Of course we make the shows for fans of the show and count on their support. And, every so often, fan reaction to certain aspects of the show may influence scripts (look no further than 200 for a good example). However, there has never been a time when a fan campaign has led to a change in the show‘s direction. One of the key elements of the Stargate’s success has been the vision of the creative behind the scenes - and Brad Wright and Robert Cooper in particular. I’m sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings but, from the beginning, the choices made have never been based on fan requests, no matter how pointed. Rob and Brad simply made a show that they would enjoy watching and, in the end, it resulted in one of the longest running science fiction shows in television history. Of course we aren’t perfect. Some decisions may pay off while others may not, but in the long run the choices made have been our own and have helped strengthen the franchise. As Brad pointed out in a recent interview, we would never do anything to harm the show. Furthermore, by the time word gets out about any changes we’ve made to the show, we have already moved on and are deep into production.
"Rob and Brad" made a show themselves and Stargate fans could watch. "Joe" is transforming that show into a show that he can watch. "As Brad pointed out... we would never do anything to harm the show." Well, "Brad" isn't apart of the "we" anymore.

PG15
February 23rd, 2007, 01:28 PM
Ltcolshepjumper just posted over at the Joe's Blog thread in the News section, so I think he can find the link for himself.

If not, then here it is: http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/

EDIT: I don't quite know what you mean by that Cameron, but FYI, Brad's contributed a story for the mid-season 2 parter.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 01:31 PM
Well, you know where his blog is, so I'll just post the important parts (regarding the article):

Ahh... those comments. It still doesn't erase the fact that he doesn't respect the fans. What I saw there was JM explaining that fans are not responsible for any of the decisions made, which is JM saying fans are irrelevant in the nicest way possible. Yes, I believe the fans are unimportant in JM's eyes. That doesn't mean I think I can read his mind. It means I looked at the comments and recent decisions and drew that as a conclusion. I actually think its good he pointed out that the show isn't made for the fans, but for tptb. So, irrelevant? Yes, that's what he probably believes.

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 01:33 PM
Ltcolshepjumper just posted over at the Joe's Blog thread in the News section, so I think he can find the link for himself.

If not, then here it is: http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/

EDIT: I don't quite know what you mean by that Cameron, but FYI, Brad's contributed a story for the mid-season 2 parter.
I was quite sure there was some news a while back that Brad Wright and Robert Cooper left the main writing group, something like that, to go work on the movie(s). Correct me if I'm wrong. I'd just like to have what he would have done, whether he would've moved Carter over to SGA, or not, specifically, whether he would've move Dr. Weir to recurring or not to make way for Carter.

PG15
February 23rd, 2007, 01:34 PM
Well, you're free to think that way, I guess. There's no point debating that with ya.

But IMHO it's a little presumptuous to "know" what the man's thinking.

EDIT: Right. Ok, first, Brad will be pretty busy doing the movies, but according to Joe has indeed contributed a story for the mid-season 2 parter. Rob Cooper has written and will direct "Dobbleganger", a Season 4 episode. After that, he's moving onto the movies.

Brad and Rob has also said, in interviews, that they will still remain within the writers room, they just won't be as involved as before (but they'll still be involved). As for the Weir situation, I remember Brad being pretty upbeat about it in his MGM interview. I suggest you take a look at it.

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 01:34 PM
Ahh... those comments. It still doesn't erase the fact that he doesn't respect the fans. What I saw there was JM explaining that fans are not responsible for any of the decisions made, which is JM saying fans are irrelevant in the nicest way possible. Yes, I believe the fans are unimportant in JM's eyes. That doesn't mean I think I can read his mind. It means I looked at the comments and recent decisions and drew that as a conclusion. I actually think its good he pointed out that the show isn't made for the fans, but for tptb. So, irrelevant? Yes, that's what he probably believes.

Then they can watch it by themselves, and whoever else supports them.

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 01:35 PM
Well, you're free to think that way, I guess. There's no point debating that with ya.

But IMHO it's a little presumptuous to "know" what the man's thinking.
No, I'd just like to hear what he would've done.

PG15
February 23rd, 2007, 01:38 PM
See my edited post. :)

(And I was talking to Ltcolshepjumper)

EDIT:
Then they can watch it by themselves, and whoever else supports them.

Technically, that's been happening since the beginning.

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 01:40 PM
See my edited post. :)

(And I was talking to Ltcolshepjumper)

EDIT:

Technically, that's been happening since the beginning.
Well, thanks for answering the question.

nonniemous
February 23rd, 2007, 01:41 PM
I actually think its good he pointed out that the show isn't made for the fans, but for tptb. So, irrelevant? Yes, that's what he probably believes.

The [email protected]'s insistence that moving AT over to SGA is a good thing and that they don't understand how anyone could object is just one obvious example of this self-serving attitude. So yeah, they can believe we're irrelevant--until they finally get it through their heads large or small that the show they're making for themselves isn't anything in which much of the rest of the world is interested.

vaberella
February 23rd, 2007, 02:28 PM
Tell me, vaberella, what WOULDN'T you like to see happen on the show? Hmm?

Snark is dancing through my head in reply, so I won't bother. :rolleyes:

I still say, hold out for S4 before jumping to conclusions people.

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 02:59 PM
Can't say I didn't see that coming....:rolleyes: But, hey, if you don't have an answer to that question, or the answer is really no, it's none of my business....:cameron:

vaberella
February 23rd, 2007, 03:52 PM
Can't say I didn't see that coming....:rolleyes: But, hey, if you don't have an answer to that question, or the answer is really no, it's none of my business....:cameron:


No, what? To be blunt: There is nothing I wouldn't mind seeing happen. I don't waste my time being shrill and ill-informed. I'll wait until S4 presents itself, in it's possible glory, and watch.:mckay:

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 04:16 PM
No, what? To be blunt: There is nothing I wouldn't mind seeing happen. I don't waste my time being shrill and ill-informed. I'll wait until S4 presents itself, in it's possible glory, and watch.:mckay:

not wanting to see something happen is not the definition of "shrill and ill-informed". It's a natural part of human nature to have likes, dislikes, and preferences. So, if you are referring to the majority of humankind as shrill and ill-informed based on preferences, go ahead.

Agent_Dark
February 23rd, 2007, 04:24 PM
http://www.users.on.net/~roscholler/Images/Random/macro-hayguys.jpg

prion
February 23rd, 2007, 04:27 PM
not wanting to see something happen is not the definition of "shrill and ill-informed". It's a natural part of human nature to have likes, dislikes, and preferences. So, if you are referring to the majority of humankind as shrill and ill-informed based on preferences, go ahead.

well put. Otherwise, if you didn't have likes or dislikes, and just merrily sat there and watched anything without ever voicing a single comment, then you would be a lemming (in the terminology of having no mind)

And someone talked about producers' and upbeat videos. They're always upbeat. You're not going to see a video interview with a producer not saying how great it is. It's tv! :rolleyes:

PG15
February 23rd, 2007, 04:32 PM
It was one of the MGM site videos, and they were very candid. Heck, just look at Martin Wood and his views on "Irresponsible".

Either way, the original poster asked for how Brad Wright felt about the Weir issue, and I pointed to it. I think he should watch it himself though.

nonniemous
February 23rd, 2007, 04:36 PM
And someone talked about producers' and upbeat videos. They're always upbeat. You're not going to see a video interview with a producer not saying how great it is. It's tv! :rolleyes:

And of course he's upbeat. Other people are being canned in order to keep the franchise going, not him. He's still got a job.

prion
February 23rd, 2007, 05:25 PM
And of course he's upbeat. Other people are being canned in order to keep the franchise going, not him. He's still got a job.

well, yeah, that's another way of looking at it....

Mitchell82
February 23rd, 2007, 10:24 PM
No, what? To be blunt: There is nothing I wouldn't mind seeing happen. I don't waste my time being shrill and ill-informed. I'll wait until S4 presents itself, in it's possible glory, and watch.:mckay:

I wish more people would just take at least one look and then say it sucks. It sounds good to me so I will indeed watch.

Uber
February 23rd, 2007, 10:30 PM
That statement deserves green. Why everyone? Because that seems like the most realistic statement about this whole situation. Argue against me if you will, but that's the whole point to it. TPTB believe if they shuffle Carter over to SGA, then it'll boost ratings and bring more popularity to the show. I don't think that's a bad thing, but at the cost of another character?! I don't agree with that. And, the fact remains that Dr. Weir didn't have to be demoted to recurring. She didn't have to be, they wanted her to be, so they could make Carter the lead of Atlantis, putting her in the spotlight.Nope. It happened the other way around.

The Weir decision came first...then later, when deciding which route to take, they went with Carter.

So, sorry to all those out there with their Carter voodoo doll in one hand and knitting needles poised to strike in the other. ;)

scarimor
February 24th, 2007, 12:05 AM
Nope. It happened the other way around.

The Weir decision came first...then later, when deciding which route to take, they went with Carter.

So, sorry to all those out there with their Carter voodoo doll in one hand and knitting needles poised to strike in the other. ;)
Yep. From JM's blog (http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/):


Jessica also writes: “Where is the logic in getting rid of two Atlantis fan favourites and risking losing their fans, just in the hope of getting a few people from SG1 to watch.”

Answer: Allow me to clear up a assumption on your part, specifically the fait accompli belief that any creative decision made with regard to Weir was a result of Carter joining the show. In fact, the opposite is true. After a decision was made with regard to Weir, we entertained a number of possibilities - three in particular come to mind. In the end, we decided on Carter because - a) it’s something we’ve wanted to do for a while, and b) her strengths and backgrounds make her well-suited to the Atlantis environment. Holding the Samantha Carter responsible for any upcoming changes would be akin to holding the Cameron Mitchell character responsible for O’Neill’s departure or blaming the General Landry character for Hammond’s exit.
*wondering who/what the other two possibilities were* Very glad they chose Sam/AT :)

Linzi
February 24th, 2007, 12:45 AM
Nope. It happened the other way around.

The Weir decision came first...then later, when deciding which route to take, they went with Carter.

So, sorry to all those out there with their Carter voodoo doll in one hand and knitting needles poised to strike in the other. ;)
I'm glad this news has come out. Maybe everyone will calm down a bit now now? Whatever my views were on the cast changes, NEVER have I felt anything but sympathy for AT. She's only doing her job!
I'm looking forward to the changes, and pray we get an exciting, dramatic and refreshed series.

Kazan
February 24th, 2007, 12:57 AM
Nope. It happened the other way around.

The Weir decision came first...then later, when deciding which route to take, they went with Carter.
Personally, I'm not convinced that was the case, even if now that is what JM is saying. Up til recently its all been tightly worded rhetoric which if I were cynical, I'd say was designed to create ambiguity and headlines. To be honest, I can't imagine TPTB would openly come out and say "yes we ditched EW in favour of SC" and I'd guess that this is in response to the fact they are unsure as to what participation EW will have in S4. If this genuinely was the decision they made, why didnt they just say that originally? Methinks that there may be some retrospective spin on all this!
What I think they have said (I believe there was an admission on a now removed clip somewhere on MGM?) is that they are moving SC across deliberately to try and capture SG1 fans. To my mind that would suggest that they started thinking about this way back to when SG1 was cancelled. At that point it seemed to me EW was very much still an important part of the SGA world and long term plans so my (and I think others) perception is that this constitutes direct replacement.
So I'm afraid all this coupled with the lack of solid information about TH/EW in S4 (it now apparently "kind of hazy") only goes to reinforce that in my mind.

Perception is a powerful thing - easily formed and extremely difficult to change.
Ultimately it comes down to individual opinion and reasoning.

To be honest, it really doesnt matter what the time lines or decision tree was in all this, the fact remains that TH/EW are disappearing from SGA and when it comes down to it, that is what I have a problem with.

As I say, just my opinion but I completely accept that others may have formed a different perception.



So, sorry to all those out there with their Carter voodoo doll in one hand and knitting needles poised to strike in the other. ;)
The impression that gives is that applies to everyone who is anti SC on SGA.

Having read most of the numerous threads that have sprung up around the whole EW situation, I'd have to say that time and time again I've seen it stated clearly that people do not have a problem with either the character of SC or with AT as an actress. In fact, in the majority of cases, my perception is that there is overwhelming support for AT and a recognition that this is an extremely difficult situtation for her.
Of course some people do not like either SC or AT or even SG1 - they are entitled to that opinion but its not one I share. I love the show, character and the actress and think they are fantastic.
BUT, like many others, that does not equate to wanting the cross over. So please do not assume that everyone, or even a majority, has it in for the character.

I wholeheartedly wish AT well on SGA and hope the many legions of her fans enjoy their continued time with the character. Sadly, irrespective of my loving the character of SC and my respect for AT, that simply is not enough left to tempt me back to SGA without TH/EW playing a full part. What a shame that TPTB couldnt see the opportunities there might have been between these two fantastic actresses and their characters.

And to anyone who might say "wait and see, it might be fantastic and TH/EW may still be very involved". Sorry but my cyncial old bones suggest that wont be the case. We've gone from main cast member to recurring cast member, to "actively involved in a great (3 ep) story arc" to "participation kinda hazy".
The end of S3 was left so wide open as to the fate of EW. To my mind they are still trying to negotiate with TH on things but the lack of confirmation on any role/number of epiosdes in S4 leds me to suspect they are not having any luck. If I were in TH's shoes, I'm not sure I'd be all that keen to go back and do a small story arc and then disappear off into the world of Stargate "recurring role" (a la Rainbow Sun Franks) after being so shafted.

Maybe they can convince her - but my expectations would be fairly low in those circumstances. 3/4 ep arc, badly injured / comatosed, wakes, big emotional goodbye scenes, shipped off to earth to recuperate, never heard of again.
The alternative is that she doesnt come back and they get the news that EW is dead. Lots of angst and remorse, flash backs and big emotional send off of coffin back to earth, never heard of again.

Same thing really.

Oh well, that ended up being a lot longer than I thought! Good viewing to all that continue with the show!

scarimor
February 24th, 2007, 01:26 AM
Personally, I'm not convinced that was the case, even if now that is what JM is saying. Up til recently its all been tightly worded rhetoric which if I were cynical, I'd say was designed to create ambiguity and headlines. To be honest, I can't imagine TPTB would openly come out and say "yes we ditched EW in favour of SC" and I'd guess that this is in response to the fact they are unsure as to what participation EW will have in S4. If this genuinely was the decision they made, why didnt they just say that originally?
Why should they? To prevent your conspiracy theory before it starts? Who asked them? In what dialogue?

Calling them liars is just foolish, imo.

Kazan
February 24th, 2007, 02:40 AM
Why should they? To prevent your conspiracy theory before it starts? Who asked them? In what dialogue?

Calling them liars is just foolish, imo.

<Sigh> Well, as I was at pains to say, I am just expressing my opinion and explaining my perception on things and why I have reached them, which if you had taken the whole of my post you would have seen.
I did not mention, nor do I believe there is a conspiracy so dont really know why you seem to jump to that conclusion.
Maybe my preception comes about from being an old cynic, but 10 years of SG1 and all the goings on of TPTB and their track record does it for me!!! ;)

And I most certainly did not call them liars so a) please do not place words on my part and b) do not call me a fool.
I expressed my opinion and you should respect my right to hold it even if you do not agree. I respect your position and your right to express it.
Thank you

chocdoc
February 24th, 2007, 04:53 AM
Having read most of the numerous threads that have sprung up around the whole EW situation, I'd have to say that time and time again I've seen it stated clearly that people do not have a problem with either the character of SC or with AT as an actress. In fact, in the majority of cases, my perception is that there is overwhelming support for AT and a recognition that this is an extremely difficult situtation for her.
Of course some people do not like either SC or AT or even SG1 - they are entitled to that opinion but its not one I share. I love the show, character and the actress and think they are fantastic.
BUT, like many others, that does not equate to wanting the cross over. So please do not assume that everyone, or even a majority, has it in for the character.

I wholeheartedly wish AT well on SGA and hope the many legions of her fans enjoy their continued time with the character. Sadly, irrespective of my loving the character of SC and my respect for AT, that simply is not enough left to tempt me back to SGA without TH/EW playing a full part. What a shame that TPTB couldnt see the opportunities there might have been between these two fantastic actresses and their characters.

And to anyone who might say "wait and see, it might be fantastic and TH/EW may still be very involved". Sorry but my cyncial old bones suggest that wont be the case. We've gone from main cast member to recurring cast member, to "actively involved in a great (3 ep) story arc" to "participation kinda hazy".
The end of S3 was left so wide open as to the fate of EW. To my mind they are still trying to negotiate with TH on things but the lack of confirmation on any role/number of epiosdes in S4 leds me to suspect they are not having any luck. If I were in TH's shoes, I'm not sure I'd be all that keen to go back and do a small story arc and then disappear off into the world of Stargate "recurring role" (a la Rainbow Sun Franks) after being so shafted.

Maybe they can convince her - but my expectations would be fairly low in those circumstances. 3/4 ep arc, badly injured / comatosed, wakes, big emotional goodbye scenes, shipped off to earth to recuperate, never heard of again.
The alternative is that she doesnt come back and they get the news that EW is dead. Lots of angst and remorse, flash backs and big emotional send off of coffin back to earth, never heard of again.

Same thing really.

Oh well, that ended up being a lot longer than I thought! Good viewing to all that continue with the show!

This is a great point. I agree that most SGA fans who are not happy with Carter coming to SGA have been very careful about not bashing AT/Carter. In fact, many have been very careful in making it clear that they like AT/Carter, but that they don't like Carter coming to SGA and what is happening to Weir -- I can completely understand that.

I disagree with you about your interpretation of JM's comments, but I respect your perspective. I really believe that the Weir decision and the Carter decision are not related, but I understand your skepticism.

Like Scarimor, I wonder what the other two options were that TPTB were pondering after making the Weir decision (whatever that really is), but I'm glad they went with AT/Carter.

scarimor
February 24th, 2007, 05:19 AM
<Sigh> Well, as I was at pains to say, I am just expressing my opinion
Unlike those who make the decisions, you have no insight into their process, so how do you think you can form an opinion which is at odds with what they say is the case?


And I most certainly did not call them liars
You're saying that you don't believe that what they say is true. That seems a simple accusation. Given that they know how they came to their creative decisions, and you don't, I stand by my opinion that such a claim is foolish.

Kazan
February 24th, 2007, 05:39 AM
Unlike those who make the decisions, you have no insight into their process, so how do you think you can form an opinion which is at odds with what they say is the case?


You're saying that you don't believe that what they say is true. That seems a simple accusation. Given that they know how they came to their creative decisions, and you don't, I stand by my opinion that such a claim is foolish.

Anyone on this board is entitled to express their own personal opinion so long as they are polite, respectful and do not flame other members. Thats all I am doing and again say I respect your position and your right to present it - please allow others the same courtesy.

No I said I was skeptic and a cynic - emphasis on "I".
I merely have formed an impression or perception of the situation based on a number of articles, quotes and previous events and from that an individual opinion. Unless you yourself have been privy to all the creative process or been involved in the discussion, neither you nor I know how this came about or the background to all this. Ergo neither of us can say definitively what went on or how this all played out. Simple fact is we have different interpretations of it but thats cool with me.
Wish you all the best for future viewing

scarimor
February 24th, 2007, 05:56 AM
Anyone on this board is entitled to express their own personal opinion so long as they are polite, respectful and do not flame other members. Thats all I am doing and again say I respect your position and your right to present it - please allow others the same courtesy.

No I said I was skeptic and a cynic - emphasis on "I".
I merely have formed an impression or perception of the situation based on a number of articles, quotes and previous events and from that an individual opinion. Unless you yourself have been privy to all the creative process or been involved in the discussion, neither you nor I know how this came about or the background to all this. Ergo neither of us can say definitively what went on or how this all played out. Simple fact is we have different interpretations of it but thats cool with me.
Wish you all the best for future viewing
Ok, so it's my opinion that they're telling the truth, and your opinion that they're not.

:blink:

The scope for "impressions" and "interpretations" fell away when they confirmed the facts. In the absence of any evidence that they're lying about their decision-making process, I'll accept the stated facts.

vaberella
February 24th, 2007, 07:56 AM
Ok, so it's my opinion that they're telling the truth, and your opinion that they're not.

:blink:

The scope for "impressions" and "interpretations" fell away when they confirmed the facts. In the absence of any evidence that they're lying about their decision-making process, I'll accept the stated facts.

Ditto. They have no valid and credible information to counter act what those in production are saying and yet they believe themselves to be omnipotent because of drawn out conclusions and of course senseless comments taken out of context and blown completely out of proportion. Or they make up claims to suit their own ideas. Plans, visions, and developments are always changing and occuring.

Again, all I can say is wait until the season shows and then jump to conclusions or rate your ideas based on what you see, not before...

Ltcolshepjumper
February 24th, 2007, 08:31 AM
Yep. From JM's blog (http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/):

*wondering who/what the other two possibilities were* Very glad they chose Sam/AT :)

Well I would assume that one of those would have been making Shep leader, the other bringing in someone entirely new. But if it is this way then I guess that means Carter's going to be leader for sure. In that case, I'm still cautious as to how they actually intend to write her as a supporting character, given the fact that she's a regular.

ToasterOnFire
February 24th, 2007, 10:34 AM
I wish more people would just take at least one look and then say it sucks.
Hell, I did exactly that for SG1 season 9, no reason why I can't extend Atlantis the same courtesy. :)

prion
February 24th, 2007, 04:36 PM
Look, no matter how much you want to be irrelevent, Joe did not say that.

Oh, I didn't say I wanted to be irrelevent ;) but to clarify he did say "But in our case, to be brutally honest, they don’t really have any impact on creative decisions".

prion
February 24th, 2007, 04:44 PM
The Weir decision came first...then later, when deciding which route to take, they went with Carter.


Anyway, nobody seems to even qusetion WHY they're ditching Weir (for all intent and purpose) but bringing Carter in as a regular does make her Weir's replacement as one actor replacing another slot on a show. The producers have stated she's be brought over in part to lure SG1 fans over.


I'm glad this news has come out. Maybe everyone will calm down a bit now now? Whatever my views were on the cast changes, NEVER have I felt anything but sympathy for AT. She's only doing her job!
I'm looking forward to the changes, and pray we get an exciting, dramatic and refreshed series.

Nobody faults AT for taking a job, for pity's sake, and I thought JM's remark about her taking the job was really odd as if he read the posts here and digested most of them he'd realize most fans are ticked off TPTB (of which AT nor any other actor has ever been a part of)...


This is a great point. I agree that most SGA fans who are not happy with Carter coming to SGA have been very careful about not bashing AT/Carter. In fact, many have been very careful in making it clear that they like AT/Carter, but that they don't like Carter coming to SGA and what is happening to Weir -- I can completely understand that.

I disagree with you about your interpretation of JM's comments, but I respect your perspective. I really believe that the Weir decision and the Carter decision are not related, but I understand your skepticism.

Like Scarimor, I wonder what the other two options were that TPTB were pondering after making the Weir decision (whatever that really is), but I'm glad they went with AT/Carter.

The major problem SGA fans is not necessarily who is coming in, but that Weir is going out. if they can't write for Weir, what makes you think they can write for the next actor in line? (but yes, the writers excel at technobabble).

jenks
February 24th, 2007, 04:50 PM
Maybe they've just decided that Weirs character isn't really needed that much, atleast not enough to warrant her regular status...

Cameron Mitchel
February 24th, 2007, 04:54 PM
Maybe they've just decided that Weirs character isn't really needed that much, atleast not enough to warrant her regular status...
Or, maybe that's what you think...

jenks
February 24th, 2007, 04:55 PM
Or, maybe that's what you think...

It is what I think, but that doesn't mean they don't think it too.

PG15
February 24th, 2007, 04:55 PM
Oh, I didn't say I wanted to be irrelevent ;) but to clarify he did say "But in our case, to be brutally honest, they don’t really have any impact on creative decisions".

I knew I should've added a smilie after that post. :p

But eh, I think by now, through Joe's explanations, it's clear that we're anything but irrelevant. We may not be as influential as some had hoped, but really, I think it's been this way since the beginning.

It's just too bad some fans can't accept the truth.

Uber
February 24th, 2007, 05:34 PM
Anyway, nobody seems to even qusetion WHY they're ditching Weir (for all intent and purpose) but bringing Carter in as a regular does make her Weir's replacement as one actor replacing another slot on a show. The producers have stated she's be brought over in part to lure SG1 fans over. You're making assumptions. We don't know who's decisions are leading to Weir being moved to recurring. We don't know and no one's saying anything.

Here's what we do know though. Weir isn't being removed so that Sam can come on board.
Nobody faults AT for taking a job, for pity's sake, and I thought JM's remark about her taking the job was really odd as if he read the posts here and digested most of them he'd realize most fans are ticked off TPTB (of which AT nor any other actor has ever been a part of)... Actually I've seen people faulting Amanda, here and elsewhere. Either her or her character. Neither are very logical choices of course but then who said fans had to be logical?
The major problem SGA fans is not necessarily who is coming in, but that Weir is going out. if they can't write for Weir, what makes you think they can write for the next actor in line? (but yes, the writers excel at technobabble).That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

If someone suggests that the writers can't figure out what to do with Weir or how to write her, how does that translate to them not being able to write for someone else?

chocdoc
February 24th, 2007, 07:07 PM
The major problem SGA fans is not necessarily who is coming in, but that Weir is going out. if they can't write for Weir, what makes you think they can write for the next actor in line? (but yes, the writers excel at technobabble).

Because Weir is a different character than Carter. I think that, in general, Carter has been written very well over the last 10 years in terms of her scientific skills and her military training. I think most of the writers are very comfortable in writing for Sam, but I think they have struggled to write Weir well.

I see Sam way more than one who can technobabble -- perhaps that is where our perceptions differ. I see many different facets of her, but I think maybe for you she is just a scientist. So I could see why you question why they could write better for Sam than for Weir. For me, Sam is a very strong and wonderful character -- I also like Weir but as a result of poor writing for her, I don't find her compelling at all in her position. Not TH's fault at all, but the fact is Weir does not draw me in -- but Carter does.

And yet I still didn't want Weir as recurring, even though I'm thrilled that Carter is going to be on SGA for 14 episodes. I like TH and I like Weir. I wanted to see a lot of interaction between these two women (I think a lot of Sam and Weir fans want this--just my perception), but TPTB are not going to give us this.

the fifth man
February 24th, 2007, 10:16 PM
I won't mind if Sam is in command of Atlantis, because I love the character. That won't change any time soon. But, I will miss Weir.

scarimor
February 25th, 2007, 12:33 AM
Nobody faults AT for taking a job, for pity's sake
You might not, but a few people have.


Maybe they've just decided that Weirs character isn't really needed that much, atleast not enough to warrant her regular status...
Maybe they're going to militarize Atlantis, and as such a civilian in charge just isn't appropriate any more.

Celcool
February 25th, 2007, 01:57 AM
It's just too bad some fans can't accept the truth.
Yeah, sure, if only they'd give us the truth. I know what you're gonna say next, but they're not obligated to do so, we should be happy to get what we get, which are vague answeres most of the time... not the truth. How could they tell us anything rellevant when they don't even have the guts to say it to the person they're dumping. For example to Paul McGillion. I read the excerpt of his upcoming interview.

prion
February 25th, 2007, 12:28 PM
You might not, but a few people have.


Maybe they're going to militarize Atlantis, and as such a civilian in charge just isn't appropriate any more.

Still haven't found anybody bashing AT herself for the part. Fans may not want Carter over, may not like Carter, but I'm not sure where all this alleged actor bashing exists...

If it gets militarized, then put SHep or Caldwell in charge.

Uber
February 25th, 2007, 12:53 PM
Still haven't found anybody bashing AT herself for the part. Fans may not want Carter over, may not like Carter, but I'm not sure where all this alleged actor bashing exists...Then just accept that it does exist. I and others have seen it and reported it when appropriate and necessary.
If it gets militarized, then put SHep or Caldwell in charge.I doubt Shep would pass muster. It's pretty clear that he has a less than pristine record and was pretty surprised to make it to Lt. Colonel.

And regardless of what Woolsey suggested in Misbegotten, I doubt Caldwell would work either:WOOLSEY: The only reason that you’re not the military commander of Atlantis is that Doctor Weir insisted that that post go to Colonel Sheppard. If she were to leave, you would be the most likely candidate to take over.
(He looks up at Caldwell, who smiles.)
CALDWELL: That’s not why you’re here. The IOA doesn’t really want militarization. They’re just afraid they may have no other choice.
WOOLSEY: I think you’ve already spoken to Doctor Weir.
CALDWELL: No. I’ve just been around long enough to know what’s going on.
WOOLSEY: Sounds like you’re saying you won’t come out against Doctor Weir only because you’re not confident of the outcome.
CALDWELL: What I’m saying, Mr Woolsey, is have a pleasant evening.Further, he doesn't have the right balance to his command. He's too quick to "push the button" and has little to no patience for scientists.

Carter, however, has an extensive record in both military strategy as well as a bevy of scientific accomplishments...and has had to manage both scientific and military assets. She'd be more prone to give a situation a little more thought before choosing a military solution...unlike Caldwell who's much more rigid in his thinking. *recalls his solution to the problem in Echoes*

Ltcolshepjumper
February 25th, 2007, 01:47 PM
Because Weir is a different character than Carter. I think that, in general, Carter has been written very well over the last 10 years in terms of her scientific skills and her military training. I think most of the writers are very comfortable in writing for Sam, but I think they have struggled to write Weir well.

I see Sam way more than one who can technobabble -- perhaps that is where our perceptions differ. I see many different facets of her, but I think maybe for you she is just a scientist. So I could see why you question why they could write better for Sam than for Weir. For me, Sam is a very strong and wonderful character -- I also like Weir but as a result of poor writing for her, I don't find her compelling at all in her position. Not TH's fault at all, but the fact is Weir does not draw me in -- but Carter does.
And yet I still didn't want Weir as recurring, even though I'm thrilled that Carter is going to be on SGA for 14 episodes. I like TH and I like Weir. I wanted to see a lot of interaction between these two women (I think a lot of Sam and Weir fans want this--just my perception), but TPTB are not going to give us this.

I'm concerned that tptb won't be able to write Carter as a leader, like Weir, and still be able to maintain Carter's personality.

PG15
February 25th, 2007, 01:48 PM
Yeah, sure, if only they'd give us the truth. I know what you're gonna say next, but they're not obligated to do so, we should be happy to get what we get, which are vague answeres most of the time... not the truth. How could they tell us anything rellevant when they don't even have the guts to say it to the person they're dumping. For example to Paul McGillion. I read the excerpt of his upcoming interview.

Interesting. Do you have a link to them excerpts?

And yes, I was going to say that. They don't have to tell us anything, and the last thing I would want would be them telling us what's happening in Season 4, fact by fact. They'd proabably want to keep it, you know, as surprise for when we, you know, watch the episodes. ;)

prion
February 25th, 2007, 01:57 PM
Interesting. Do you have a link to them excerpts?

And yes, I was going to say that. They don't have to tell us anything, and the last thing I would want would be them telling us what's happening in Season 4, fact by fact. They'd proabably want to keep it, you know, as surprise for when we, you know, watch the episodes. ;)

I'll stick the whole Paul McGillion text in a spoiler thing to save space

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH PAUL MCGILLION

Last night the Atlantis episode ‘Sunday’ premiered in the UK, British fans
joining their Canadian counterparts in watching the demise of the much loved
‘Dr Carson Beckett’. On March 1st in conjunction with UK fansite, The
Gateroom (English version only), Stargate Solutions and German Fansite, The
Stargate Project (German version only), we follow up ‘Starburst Magazine’
with a brand new interview with Paul McGillion. The Save Carson Beckett
campaign is also pleased to announce the release of an EXCLUSIVE audio
message to fans from Paul himself, only available at
http://www.savecarsonbeckett.com. The actor talks about his time on the
series, his thoughts about leaving the show as well his recent work
including ‘A Dog’s Breakfast’.

Here’s a taste of what to look forward to:

“Q: The decision to write out Carson has generated a huge debate, especially
online. Do you think that Carson’s demise would cause such uproar?

Paul: The fact that Carson was written out and the fans have kind of
‘rallied the troops’ so to speak is really flattering to me as an actor and
I think testament to the character that the fellas at Atlantis gave me the
opportunity to play for three years. As far as commenting on the uproar, I
don’t know what to say. Again it’s really flattering. My agent’s received
hundreds of letter and I know that ‘the-powers-that-be’ have received a lot
of fan mail. And SCIFI and MGM have also received fan mail regarding the
demise of the character.

So, again it’s pretty flattering. I’ve had a fantastic time working on it.
They had their reasons, I don’t know exactly what those are but it was
something that they thought might be able to shake things up a little with
the series, seeing SG-1 was cancelled and they figured that they might need
to ’shake things up’ with Atlantis.

To be honest with you I was disappointed at the time but at the same time I
had done three years on the series and it’s been such a great thing for me.
I’ve been in the business for quite a while and I guess all good things come
to an end. That being said if there’s ever an opportunity for Carson to come
back in any capacity I would be willing to look at that opportunity because
I had such a great time working with the cast and crew especially.”

Watch out for the rest of the interview on March 1st at:

Europe - 6pm GMT

prion
February 25th, 2007, 02:02 PM
Then just accept that it does exist. I and others have seen it and reported it when appropriate and necessary.I doubt Shep would pass muster. It's pretty clear that he has a less than pristine record and was pretty surprised to make it to Lt. Colonel.

It's not like Sam has a pristine record either, thinking back to Replicarter...


And regardless of what Woolsey suggested in Misbegotten, I doubt Caldwell would work either:[SPOILERS]WOOLSEY: The only reason that you’re not the military commander of Atlantis is that Doctor Weir insisted that that post go to Colonel Sheppard.
]*

The only reason we don't get caldwell in charge is because he's not from SG1, and the actor might not be available and it woudl militarize the base.



Carter, however, has an extensive record in both military strategy as well as a bevy of scientific accomplishments...and has had to manage both scientific and military assets. She'd be more prone to give a situation a little more thought before choosing a military solution...unlike Caldwell who's much more rigid in his thinking. *recalls his solution to the problem in Echoes*

Sam being in charge would militarize the base. Sam's best skills are with science - not with bureaucracy - which is why I can't see her as a leader. One of carter's flaws can be that she thinks things through--too much. When there's a need for emotion on SG1, 9 tiems out of 10 it's given to Carter because men don't express emotion (or very very rarely), and that's a fault of the writers.

Basically, we just need better writers...

PG15
February 25th, 2007, 02:06 PM
Thanks!

I don't see how TPTB "didn't have the guts"; isn't it obvious they did it to "shake things up"?

Uber
February 25th, 2007, 02:15 PM
It's not like Sam has a pristine record either, thinking back to Replicarter...No one has a perfect record. But it seemed clear to me that Shep was surprised to get the advancement to Lt. Colonel in the first place. I'm guessing...and this is speculation on my part...that they agreed because at the time Liz had more political pull and made it be the case. My sense is that her political capital has lessened though.
The only reason we don't get caldwell in charge is because he's not from SG1, and the actor might not be available and it woudl militarize the base.I think Atlantis will be militarized. They're hoping to get Mitch next year btw but as for the rest of your comments...they are pure speculation on your part. Apparently, Carter was one of several ideas they had with regard to handle the decisions made about Weir. I doubt that all of them involved SG-1 characters.
Sam being in charge would militarize the base. Sam's best skills are with science - not with bureaucracy - which is why I can't see her as a leader. One of carter's flaws can be that she thinks things through--too much. When there's a need for emotion on SG1, 9 tiems out of 10 it's given to Carter because men don't express emotion (or very very rarely), and that's a fault of the writers.

Basically, we just need better writers...She's handled bureaucracy just fine over the years. She's not intimidated by those with political power, which is a plus.

And of course she thinks things through too much on SG-1. That was her job...to present an argument with the pros and cons so that someone else, the decision maker, would have all the facts. But whenever she's been in a position of leading, she's quick on the draw and makes whatever decision she believes is best.

I don't mind her being emotional and frankly I'm glad of it. I don't want her or anyone else to be automatons who simply follow orders without emotion.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 25th, 2007, 02:25 PM
No one has a perfect record. But it seemed clear to me that Shep was surprised to get the advancement to Lt. Colonel in the first place. I'm guessing...and this is speculation on my part...that they agreed because at the time Liz had more political pull and made it be the case. My sense is that her political capital has lessened though.I think Atlantis will be militarized. They're hoping to get Mitch next year btw but as for the rest of your comments...they are pure speculation on your part. Apparently, Carter was one of several ideas they had with regard to handle the decisions made about Weir. I doubt that all of them involved SG-1 characters.She's handled bureaucracy just fine over the years. She's not intimidated by those with political power, which is a plus.

And of course she thinks things through too much on SG-1. That was her job...to present an argument with the pros and cons so that someone else, the decision maker, would have all the facts. But whenever she's been in a position of leading, she's quick on the draw and makes whatever decision she believes is best.
I don't mind her being emotional and frankly I'm glad of it. I don't want her or anyone else to be automatons who simply follow orders without emotion.

Uh, examples?

Uber
February 25th, 2007, 02:27 PM
Uh, examples?I'm not about to try and think back through 10 years of examples. If you have the DVDs, you can look for them yourself but they exist. From when she was in command of SG-1 through various missions where she was put in charge, like The Sentinel.

Her job on SG-1 under O'Neill was to present the arguments not make the decisions. When it's her call, she makes it without fuss or muss.

ETA: This is also wildly off-topic. There are other threads out there discussing the pros and cons of Carter coming to Atlantis and her being put in charge.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 25th, 2007, 02:36 PM
I'm not about to try and think back through 10 years of examples. If you have the DVDs, you can look for them yourself but they exist. From when she was in command of SG-1 through various missions where she was put in charge, like The Sentinel.

Her job on SG-1 under O'Neill was to present the arguments not make the decisions. When it's her call, she makes it without fuss or muss.

ETA: This is also wildly off-topic. There are other threads out there discussing the pros and cons of Carter coming to Atlantis and her being put in charge.

I still don't remember her decisions being "quick on the draw". She has always been more of a thinker. Just because she was put in charge didn't change how she made decisions.

Deevil
February 25th, 2007, 02:41 PM
Why do I have the feeling that I should be running around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling".

I'm going to be brutally honest here. Weir is an good character, well as good as you can get when you have at most 2 dimensions, and the only impact you really have on the direction of the show is saying yes or no. Not that the no is ever accepted.

Honestly, as a general whole the cast on Atlantis is very 2 dimensional, except for maybe McKay, so because of this I only really care about McKay in more then an abstract "I know you and will miss seeing your face way". She was relegated to extra more often then not, so maybe her not being around so much is going to force an active storyline for her. Maybe they should think about making everyone but Sheppard and McKay reaccuring - at least that's be honest on their behalf.

But in the end, I don't have enough feelings about the characters on Atlantis to care if they go (apart from McKay). So, yeah. But, I like Sam, like her a lot. She is a character I have almost aways enjoyed (and she is just getting better), so it works for e if she is moving over to Atlantis as long as there is a strong reason as to why, and she is utilised in conjunction with the rest of the cast.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 25th, 2007, 02:43 PM
Why do I have the feeling that I should be running around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling".

I'm going to be brutally honest here. Weir is an good character, well as good as you can get when you have at most 2 dimensions, and the only impact you really have on the direction of the show is saying yes or no. Not that the no is ever accepted.

Honestly, as a general whole the cast on Atlantis is very 2 dimensional, except for maybe McKay, so because of this I only really care about McKay in more then an abstract "I know you and will miss seeing your face way". She was relegated to extra more often then not, so maybe her not being around so much is going to force an active storyline for her. Maybe they should think about making everyone but Sheppard and McKay reaccuring - at least that's be honest on their behalf.

But in the end, I don't have enough feelings about the characters on Atlantis to care if they go (apart from McKay). So, yeah. But, I like Sam, like her a lot. She is a character I have almost aways enjoyed (and she is just getting better), so it works for me if she is moving over to Atlantis as long as there is a strong reason as to why, and she is utilised in conjunction with the rest of the cast.

They tried that with Ford and look where that went.

Uber
February 25th, 2007, 03:12 PM
I still don't remember her decisions being "quick on the draw". She has always been more of a thinker. Just because she was put in charge didn't change how she made decisions.Of course she was and is a thinker. That was her role. When she's in command however, that's not her role. Her job then is to weigh what's given to her and make the decision she thinks is best. I've seen more of that this year than last but there are plenty of examples over the past 10 years to show that, when her job is to take charge and give orders, she does it just fine.

Deevil
February 25th, 2007, 03:15 PM
They tried that with Ford and look where that went.

Yes, Ford went no where. I for one am very glad of that, the character sucked, and the whiny "it's all about me" attitude of his reaccuring wraith-like self grated on me. Plus, we do not know, yet again, whether or not they wanted him around more and he didn't want to be there - negotitions fell through because of unreasonable demands etc etc etc.

Fords character, to me, had no potential. Weir's does.

scarimor
February 25th, 2007, 03:23 PM
It's not like Sam has a pristine record either, thinking back to Replicarter...
During which she was acting under the orders and direct supervision of her CO, O'Neill. Of which he reminded her in a later episode when she tried to shoulder the blame.

I have my doubts that they'll write Carter as the leader of the Atlantis expedition anyway. I don't think that's why they're bringing her on board. She is very capable in command, but I think they've got a better use for her than command of Atlantis.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 25th, 2007, 03:30 PM
During which she was acting under the orders and direct supervision of her CO, O'Neill. Of which he reminded her in a later episode when she tried to shoulder the blame.

I have my doubts that they'll write Carter as the leader of the Atlantis expedition anyway. I don't think that's why they're bringing her on board. She is very capable in command, but I think they've got a better use for her than command of Atlantis.

I have my doubts that they will think through something other than filling Weir's spot. mainly because they were looking for directions to go after they decided to off Weir.

Deevil
February 25th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Carter couldn't directly replace Weir anyway. She is military, Weir is not... It's not a 'one woman fits all' void that is left by Weir. I really have no idea where that idea comes from.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 25th, 2007, 03:46 PM
Carter couldn't directly replace Weir anyway. She is military, Weir is not... It's not a 'one woman fits all' void that is left by Weir. I really have no idea where that idea comes from.

Unless Weir isn't leaving, someone will have to fill her spot. And I can't see any reason why a show would need another scientist role in the main cast, or why a strictly military role would be needed in the main cast. That's why I think Carter's going to, in essence, replace Weir.

Deevil
February 25th, 2007, 03:49 PM
Sure, you can think that Carter is going to replace Weir. I think that's implying though that it's an "one role fits all women" approach...

I also think that the idea of 'replacing' things is highly incorrect, because when people are 'different' there is no replacement, it's just someone having the same position.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 25th, 2007, 03:59 PM
Sure, you can think that Carter is going to replace Weir. I think that's implying though that it's an "one role fits all women" approach...

I also think that the idea of 'replacing' things is highly incorrect, because when people are 'different' there is no replacement, it's just someone having the same position.

My definition of "replace" is alot broader.

Night Spring
February 25th, 2007, 04:04 PM
I also think that the idea of 'replacing' things is highly incorrect, because when people are 'different' there is no replacement, it's just someone having the same position.
Well yes, as individuals, each person is unique, and in that sense there is no "replacing" one person with another.

But when one person leaves a position, and another steps in to take up that role, then, in my experience, that is usually referred to as person A replacing person B.

DelTrax1
February 25th, 2007, 04:07 PM
Carter couldn't directly replace Weir anyway. She is military, Weir is not... It's not a 'one woman fits all' void that is left by Weir. I really have no idea where that idea comes from.

I do think that if fits due to what has been seen and told about us having Carter come to Atlantis. But at the same time....I really would like to see Daniel in that position.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 25th, 2007, 04:09 PM
I do think that if fits due to what has been seen and told about us having Carter come to Atlantis. But at the same time....I really would like to see Daniel in that position.

Daniel as leader? I could see him as a negotiator and helping to make offworld races get along ( which he seems quite able to do) but leader? I hardly remember Daniel in that many leadership positions. yes, he's an equal of Dr. Weir, but he just lacks the leadership skills IMO. Anyways, back on topic.

Deevil
February 25th, 2007, 04:10 PM
It's not a person replacing anyone... it's someone filling the open 'position'. Not about replacing the person by any stretch. Anyway, I doubt Carter is going to become the commander anyway.

vaberella
February 25th, 2007, 06:59 PM
It's not a person replacing anyone... it's someone filling the open 'position'. Not about replacing the person by any stretch. Anyway, I doubt Carter is going to become the commander anyway.

Thank you Deevil I fully agree with you. It's already been said that Carter will have her own ship and will be in command of that. Much like Caldwell is in charge of the Deadaleus. We have no idea what is Weir's position but Weir much like Ford really brings nothing to the drama besides answering ineptly to situations that endanger her staff...(Michael). And whinging about the IOA to their face or behind their backs.

I undrestood the reason for Ford. I love Ford, he was definitely one of my faves, but realistically he brought nothing to the team as an added dimension. We had McKay who was the scientist (whoopie), we have John the military strategist with a keen sense of getting into trouble, we have Teyla the Sacajawea of the PG (a much needed guide or they'd be dead by now).

Ford was just an extra man, but although I didn't like the way they shunted him off, I did like the fact that this would establish Ford more. Give him meaning and purpose to the team. His only back history before Atlantis was being 25 and the marines (?), who has grandparents and a cousin but no parents. Not much to go from there. With Ronon, here lies the difference, we got a kid roughly around 28 who's been on the run for 7 years from the Wraith and been to countless planets. He doesn't pose any threat to McKay's role, not that Ford did, but he adds to McKay and I like it when he surprises McKay. Then we have John who he's an extention of and is brute force and gets the job done----and can take care of himself. In a fair fight (before wraith gene) Ford would lose to Ronon. Then with Teyla she has someone she can relate too and not to complete strangers from Earth. Further more, he probably has plenty of enemies along the way and possibly friends and brings in the new element of 'The Runners'.

Ford now can come in any time, S4, S5 and provide similar storylines he couldn't have before, much as Ronon does now. This is why TPTB made a realistic change from Ford to Ronon, it adds to the story. Runner was a great ep, Ronon's portrayal in various eps were fantastic, he's a great character if you look past the grunting and 'Kill' personality he gives off.

Weir needs that development that can be given to Ford, or otherwise she does become the "Yes, No, Maybe so" lady and nothing more. We understand that decisions are difficult, now let's go beyond that. I would love to see her organizing meetings with others. They do have other people than the Athosians they've helped, or even just other leadership meetings. Nothing is given to us. She should not be depending on Earth but rallying the allies to creat an offensive against enemies. Why isn't she? Where are all these people, where are the great minds from S3 we saw, or Inferno scientists all killed by Michael's bugs. Why not go back to brotherhood people and find other ways to appeal to them besides wanting ZPMs? What happened to this alliance with the Genii? Nothing---Weir, because the writer's write Weir isn't doing anything? These aren't a lot of things to bring in story but would better utilise Weir, in some instances.

John and Teyla at the moment aren't given to many faces, we've seen some John more so than Teyla. If you look for it you'll find it. Teyla has limitless history to provide to story---we know practically nothing about her and she said in the first ep the Underground and various eps that she's traded with hundreds of planets, we see one of these planets like the Genii or the people in Trinity. Where are the others? Her mother, her father? What were they and why does her lineage have the gene?! That's story with growth. John has plenty of past we dont' know about and that can be used in the future eps.

This works and can be worked with. That's not to say she's unimportant, but the position of leader can be toned down since the off world teams make the first contact. She can play the background player with other world plantary leaders.

In situations when one off world team is in trouble another one can go and save them. Or plan a mode of rescue---and at that point all that's needed is an 'yes', even if that. Since, in military situations or need of military action default leadership goes to John.

Too look at Weir, she and Teyla really are glorified exras (at the moment[I have plenty of hope TPTB will rectify that and build on it.]). I've said it before, but the show has been dominated by the boys. That doesn't mean the program is bad, far from it. I personally would like the women to have more of a go. But Weir is not on the core team, and so her position is limited and as such would be more effective in a minute role, until there's a great chance to give her the spotlight---and carry it effectively. But don't force her in an ep when really her presence is dictated by 'Yes or No' answer--which has been the case.

I'd rather get substance than crumbs. :mckay:

Celcool
February 26th, 2007, 02:03 AM
I don't see how TPTB "didn't have the guts"; isn't it obvious they did it to "shake things up"?
Haha, did you expect Paul to say that? He's too courteous, unlike TPTB. Take a look at this again:

"They had their reasons, I don’t know exactly what those are but it was
something that they thought might be able to shake things up a little with
the series, seeing SG-1 was cancelled and they figured that they might need
to ’shake things up’ with Atlantis."

He still doesn't know exactly why it was done.

travis
February 26th, 2007, 03:31 AM
Haha, did you expect Paul to say that? He's too courteous, unlike TPTB. Take a look at this again:

"They had their reasons, I don’t know exactly what those are but it was
something that they thought might be able to shake things up a little with
the series, seeing SG-1 was cancelled and they figured that they might need
to ’shake things up’ with Atlantis."

He still doesn't know exactly why it was done.

You know if they really want to shake things up why not actually write interesting provocative story's in stead of killing or getting read of character.

scarimor
February 26th, 2007, 04:24 AM
Unless Weir isn't leaving, someone will have to fill her spot. And I can't see any reason why a show would need another scientist role in the main cast, or why a strictly military role would be needed in the main cast. That's why I think Carter's going to, in essence, replace Weir.
I think it much more likely that Sheppard will assume command of the expedition. He won't be in command of Carter though (unless they screw unrealistically with the promotion cycles).

Uber
February 26th, 2007, 06:12 AM
I think it much more likely that Sheppard will assume command of the expedition. He won't be in command of Carter though (unless they screw unrealistically with the promotion cycles).I find that highly unlikely as I think that would interfere too much with him going off world.

Also...I keep seeing people say that we know Sam will be in command of her own ship. This is an extrapolation. We know only one thing...she'll arrive on her own ship. What "her own ship" means in application and what implications that may or may not have on her being in Atlantis may mean something completely different than people suspect.

vaberella
February 26th, 2007, 07:37 AM
I find that highly unlikely as I think that would interfere too much with him going off world.

Also...I keep seeing people say that we know Sam will be in command of her own ship. This is an extrapolation. We know only one thing...she'll arrive on her own ship. What "her own ship" means in application and what implications that may or may not have on her being in Atlantis may mean something completely different than people suspect.

I agree with that statement. But again I wouldn't want to see Carter 'lead' the Atlantis ex (Not yet anyway. I still have hope Weir will come back and blow me away in her written improvement). I'd need a natural progression into that, ie Weir resigning, or Carter adding more and more of her input which are successful misadventures.

Further more, unless we get confirmation from the IOA that Carter IS in charge then I'd like to believe she's advisory. I prefer the idea of her being advisory---much like Caldwell was and seeing that grow and differing leadership or leadership control to the guys. Not only that JM did say that her presence won't take away from the team and I'm sure the team would set her straight since she has no first hand knowledge of the PG despite files given to her (although her experience in SG1 would make her a fast learner, she'd still face some difficulty in taking full control).

Anyway for at least a couple of episodes John will be leading the team (or I'm assuming so. I could be wrong.), since Weir is incapacitated and the Atlantis Ex is 'lost in space'. So there will probably be no off world missions for the first few, as they find some place to land, find a way to contact earth, and just bloody survive in a new planet. :D

Celcool
February 26th, 2007, 07:40 AM
You know if they really want to shake things up why not actually write interesting provocative story's in stead of killing or getting read of character.
I know. if it was really done to shake things up then it was not a very good plan, to say it mildly, yeah, sure, the ratings will skyrocket when you kill a character. maybe for one episode, after that, a lot of fans will move on to a show that doesn't kill your favorite character.

prion
February 26th, 2007, 09:12 AM
Thanks!

I don't see how TPTB "didn't have the guts"; isn't it obvious they did it to "shake things up"?

Killing characters is a fad - it's all over TV - even the TV critics are yawning at it.


Haha, did you expect Paul to say that? He's too courteous, unlike TPTB. Take a look at this again:

"They had their reasons, I don’t know exactly what those are but it was
something that they thought might be able to shake things up a little with
the series, seeing SG-1 was cancelled and they figured that they might need
to ’shake things up’ with Atlantis."

He still doesn't know exactly why it was done.

Probably the same reason they toasted poor Doc Frasier....


I find that highly unlikely as I think that would interfere too much with him going off world.

Also...I keep seeing people say that we know Sam will be in command of her own ship. This is an extrapolation. We know only one thing...she'll arrive on her own ship. What "her own ship" means in application and what implications that may or may not have on her being in Atlantis may mean something completely different than people suspect.

Wright (Cooper?) said she's arrive in her own ship. Yeah, it's hard to tell what that means. She could be taking an F302 down from the Apollo or whatever.


i have a neilson box, so i am in a powerful position to change the course of this...uprising. i will download the atlantis episodes, but i will not watch them on tv. this will be part of my protest against the show, and we will see how tpb feel, once their pockets shrink. :mckay:

Heh, JM should be afraid of you. very afraid....

Anyway, there are two threads, in case anybody wishes to debate, over at the season 4 thread

Could Carter replace WEir:
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=40463

and

Why Sam should be put in charge (think that got renamed)
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=41078

PG15
February 26th, 2007, 07:45 PM
Haha, did you expect Paul to say that? He's too courteous, unlike TPTB. Take a look at this again:

"They had their reasons, I don’t know exactly what those are but it was
something that they thought might be able to shake things up a little with
the series, seeing SG-1 was cancelled and they figured that they might need
to ’shake things up’ with Atlantis."

He still doesn't know exactly why it was done.

Hmmm...very interesting.

Well, I'm sure they have their reasons.

Mitchell82
February 27th, 2007, 05:12 PM
TPTB should concentrate on making the best show possible, they shouldn't be worrying about what a few fans will say on an internet forum before they make every decision. What people don't seem to realise is, the writers don't have a responsibility to keep long time fans happy, they're there to tell great stories, if you don't like them, don't watch. Vowing to never have anything to do with Stargate again just because you haven't got your own way is, imo, very very childish...

I use to not agree with you but lately I have. They are here to make the best quality TV they can and I feel if they make it to the standards that they are making a show they would watch seems logical. I have read interviews on gateworld and other sites not jus SG with creators saying they work on a show but in the end can't stand to watch the finished product. I'd rather have a creative team making a program even they would watch. Agree 100% on your last statement.

the old briar pipe
March 1st, 2007, 10:40 PM
I use to not agree with you but lately I have. They are here to make the best quality TV they can and I feel if they make it to the standards that they are making a show they would watch seems logical. I have read interviews on gateworld and other sites not jus SG with creators saying they work on a show but in the end can't stand to watch the finished product. I'd rather have a creative team making a program even they would watch. Agree 100% on your last statement.

Actually, that's a temperment thing. Some creative people can't deal with their finished products. It has nothing to do with the quality or fan approval. Just as some folks love to get feedback and others avoid it like the plague. ;)

kymeric
March 2nd, 2007, 03:58 PM
Its Sci-Fi I would not put it past them. I really hope that Sc-Fi has nothing to do with that 3rd series. I say give Stargate a TV break. Let that contract die. That way MGM can find Stargate a new home & just do for the time being DVD movies.

ROFL this is what ppl said in enterprise. And how much trek is there now? Nothing, just a movie in limbo hell. If u dont like stargate dont curse it, just stop watching it!

ussrelativity
March 2nd, 2007, 07:27 PM
I believe that Season 4 is now in filming. Or perhaps in production now.

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 08:13 PM
Yeah you're right, it started filming a couple of days ago, should be some big fat spoilers out soon...

PG15
March 2nd, 2007, 08:56 PM
To be precise, it started filming yesterday.

jenks
March 2nd, 2007, 09:00 PM
To be precise, it started filming yesterday.

I thought it started March 1st?

Mitchell82
March 2nd, 2007, 09:28 PM
Thats yesterday.

parisindy
March 2nd, 2007, 10:07 PM
The major problem SGA fans is not necessarily who is coming in, but that Weir is going out. if they can't write for Weir, what makes you think they can write for the next actor in line? (but yes, the writers excel at technobabble).


OMG Excellent point! I never thought of that and its so true
if nothing had changed, if torri's role remained the same and Paul wasn't dumped, i probably would have been only slightly nervous about Amanda coming over and i would certainly still be watching Atlantis. What i really hate is what happened to torri and paul.

too bad thats not what happened. I don't really care for the character of sam carter, but i could have put up with her.

jenks
March 3rd, 2007, 09:10 AM
Thats yesterday.

No it's not/wasn't.

Night Spring
March 3rd, 2007, 09:40 AM
No it's not/wasn't.
Time zone difference, anybody? ;)

Starxgate
March 3rd, 2007, 10:23 AM
just a movie in limbo hell

They have a director signed on & there is a start date for shooting & they are already casting. It is far from "limbo hell"

bluealien
March 3rd, 2007, 10:31 AM
He didn't say it but he meant it.


I don't think we can presume to know what Mallozzi ment - only Mallozzi himself knows what he ment.