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GateWorld
February 14th, 2007, 06:04 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s3/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/305.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 29</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s3/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">EVOLUTION OF THE DALEKS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 2905</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
When the Daleks reveal their "final experiment" to create Human-Dalek hybrids, the Doctor must decide whether or not the newly reborn Dalek Sec is worth helping. Meanwhile, the Daleks put Hooverville within their crosshairs.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s3/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Willow'sCat
April 28th, 2007, 08:48 PM
Well, well, well.

What a sorry excuse for a plot. :cool: :rolleyes:

This is more or less without the swearing :D what I wrote up in my LJ about this mess of an episode *well it took ages for the thread to be opened and I was bored*

Well, I have to admit "Daleks in Manhattan" & its second part "Evolution of The Daleks" has left me wondering what's going on?

From the blatant "shipping" (yes lets keep that deadend of a plot going shall we) to The Daleks using humans and their DNA to create a Dalek hybrid race; well sorry but The Daleks would N.E.V.E.R... E.V.E.R do this!!! Don't care, don't want to hear it.... they would N.E.V.E.R ... E.V.E.R do this!!!! (I guess if you have little knowledge of The Daleks you may have believed it but The Doctor should have known better. For him to even entertain this not to mention try and work with them it just rang so hollow).

Was this a lame attempt to appeal to a US market now that SciFi has agreed to buy another series of the show? And what was the black guy's "god" speech supossed to be about? Doctor Who does not "do" god and to me it felt so out of place. Not to mention just plain naff. I found myself willing The Dalek to "Exterminate" him already! :cool: Sorry but the atheist part of me just couldn't stomach it. :rolleyes:

So are they finding themselves running out of ideas? Marketing an ep is easy when you have a known *evil doer*?

I don't know, I didn't hate it but the second part made me not love the first part as much, and it just left me thinking the show (the writer) has no idea or worse; no concern for its own *as hard to follow as it is* C.A.N.O.N.

They wouldn't even say Davros, why not? :cool:

Plus side:

Daleks are cool and a real Dalek takes no crap from anyone. :D
David Tennant worked the actions and words he was given as best he could and almost saved the entire episode single-handed from being the disaster it surely would have been.
Martha is, well I am not hating her. Hating the shipping but not her.

*goes off to try and forget this ever happened* :cool:

Steve_the_Wraith
April 28th, 2007, 11:48 PM
That episode stunk, for lack of a better word

wildly out of character Daleks (going against the basic principles of Dalek-ness) they do not hybridise at all they keep themselves pure

wtf was going on with Dalek Sek, a hybrid of the evil Dalek Sek and the evil ganster guy is some sort of good guy - not buying it

The plot dragged, the characters were corny, the can't we all get along speech really pissed me off, we all knew what was going to happen, the speech was doomed from the start, it was cheesy, overstated and got in the way of the episode

The end, oh no the last ever Dalek (how many more last ever Daleks will there be, is this like the third one) emergency timeshifts out, how unexpected he only used the exact same escape method as last time. I felt like shouting at the doctor for being stupid,its not like he had dozens of ray guns to shoot the dalek with before he time shifted instead of running ineffectually at him

Bad science, I know this is Dr. Who, so try to tune out the science for the most part, actually it's usually not that bad,
*But gamma rays in lightning? Gamma rays + people = very very dead, if that radiation reached New York in anyway millions would die, more would get cancer
*Lightning carrying the doctors DNA, that didn't make any sense, at all
*A genetics laboratory made up of coloured boiling liquid, oh that'll work
*The genetic in general stunk but I sat through SG:A retrovirus arc so I can't really complain


All in all the worst episode of season 3, and maybe all the new series of Dr. Who, (although "Love & Monsters" was terrible)

Rabid Coot
April 29th, 2007, 01:16 AM
Did they just...

Leave 1930's New York with a fully functional Dalek genetics lab, 2 severely damaged Dalek cases and 1 thats probably intact and several dozen Tommy Gun/Death Ray hybrids?

Tanduay
April 29th, 2007, 01:52 AM
Did they just...

Leave 1930's New York with a fully functional Dalek genetics lab, 2 severely damaged Dalek cases and 1 thats probably intact and several dozen Tommy Gun/Death Ray hybrids?


Well if they have then

It would be a nice foundation for an american series of Torchwood


Oh god no. Can you imagine the mess they would make of that? Look what they did to The Office

Reefgirl
April 29th, 2007, 02:52 AM
Is it just me or is anyone else getting slightly fed up with Preachy Doctor Angst?

Admittedly this episode was slightly better than last weeks but it still wasn't as good as dalek episodes of old, I can't see many kids hiding behind the sofa these days.

while the saving of Lazlo was nice it was a bit predictible, I think if he'd have kicked the bucket I'd have reacted a bit more, but I just thought "Yeah, the Doctor will save him".

I know Dr Who is sci fi and he's invincible but credibility was stretched a little thin with the whole lightning-strike-timelord-DNA-mixing-with-dalek-DNA thing was too much, I mean there was a time when radiation poisoning caused a Doctor to regenerate, now he can withstand a gamma radiation strike. I have to admit I did wonder if he's turn into the Hulk, but that's me being silly.

all in all, it was a bit better but not much

wise one
April 29th, 2007, 03:32 AM
that would of changed the timeline considerably.

that episode was not that good, it only leaves one dalek left(maybe more out there) but i wanted more daleks to survive

Commander Ivanova
April 29th, 2007, 04:05 AM
I think part of the explanation for the total dire-ness of this episode is that it was not written by RTD. I hope whoever did has been taken out and shot, because it was truly, truly awful.

Cheesy speeches by the doc and Hooverville mayor, unspeakable shipping, plot with holes you could drive a tank through, unbelievable motivations of the Daleks, terrible acting.

Just because it's sci fi doesn't mean we'll put up with any old crap.

Looking forward to a better effort next week.

Naonak
April 29th, 2007, 06:45 AM
Well, it looks like I'm the odd one out...

I loved this episode - thought it was excellent.

I thought the Daleks were great. It seems to me that it was only really Dalek Sec who was into the whole hybrid plan - the other three just went along with it because Sec was the leader, until they decided the plan was going to damage them.

David Tennant was, as always, fantastic.

The Time Lord DNA being carried by the lightning made no real sense, but I can look past it...

9/10...


(BTW, if a Dalek shoots the Doctor, can he regenerate from that? They keep talking about it as if that would be it for him...)

Blitz
April 29th, 2007, 06:46 AM
Well - guess its just me who accepted it as an ok Ep - my only REAL problem was the shippyness.

To me, the episode would of gone better if the Sec, and the hybrids had worked - AND THEN been turned on, but not eliminated by the other pure Daleks. I think it would of been interesting to have two sects of Daleks - the new hybrids living their way, and the pure out there still trying to rule.

The hybrid thing wasnt a major let dwn too me, as I see it as a last resort - the cult of skaro were out to think of "out of the box" ways to win and survive. Well, they did compared to the old Daleks.

ShadowMaat
April 29th, 2007, 07:43 AM
This ep was a bit disappointing. I was willing to play along last week, but now the whole thing seems too ridiculous. As has already been said, the Daleks would NEVER choose to lessen themselves by crossing with humans. Daleks are PURE. Anything else would be not-Dalek and would be exterminated.

If one Dalek went crazy and decided it was the only way, fine, but for the other Daleks to continue the program (even under the excuse of them being full of Dalek DNA) just doesn't scan.

The Doctor going along with any of it was insane. The Daleks have been his most baneful enemy since Day 1, why in hell would he willingly help them to "evolve" and possibly come back to cause even MORE trouble? If the Daleks are weaker because they lack emotion then giving them that emotion will make them an even stronger enemy than they already are. Ridiculous. No way he'd agree to it.

The whole Dr Frankenstein vibe was a little much, too. Brought to life by lightning? Even gamma-irradiated lightning? I googled it and came up with some articles that seem to support it... in theory, but it still seems pretty dodgy to me.

It's a shame that all the human Daleks were killed. I'd have been VERY curious to see the larger implications of their having Time Lord DNA in their mix. Obviously it didn't include the bit about regeneration. ;)

Y'know, it occurs to me that the Doctor does an awful lot of shouting in this show. I wonder if DT ever gets a sore throat from it all. lol

MechaThor
April 29th, 2007, 08:06 AM
Nice Episode much better than last weeks. Loved how the Dalek sac started to change his mind about his origins and actually got the DR to want to help him in the dalek species rebirth.

The Scene where the 2 daleks had their doubts about the Sac was a nice idea giving them a sense of indvisuality (yes i can't spell ha ha ha.)

SOOOO the JellyFish was a baby Dalek after all.

Also 4give me if i am wrong but when they looked at the cityscape from the top of the empire state building where they infact not looking at the empire state building itself?




.............

Next weeks episode looks great! With the Manticore like spider dude moster. Excellent monster + Excellent CGI = Gd looking episode.

ShadowMaat
April 29th, 2007, 08:14 AM
...when they looked at the cityscape from the top of the empire state building where they in fact not looking at the empire state building itself?
Kinda seemed like that, didn't it? But it's the Chrysler Building. You can tell because the top is different.

Naonak
April 29th, 2007, 08:21 AM
The Doctor going along with any of it was insane. The Daleks have been his most baneful enemy since Day 1, why in hell would he willingly help them to "evolve" and possibly come back to cause even MORE trouble? If the Daleks are weaker because they lack emotion then giving them that emotion will make them an even stronger enemy than they already are. Ridiculous. No way he'd agree to it.
Well, Human-Dalek Sec seemed fine to just go and live peacefully, without the exterminating and "supreme race" stuff, so I figured that's why the Doctor was helping.

Or he thought he'd be able to get away and stop the thing getting powered up...

pbellosom
April 29th, 2007, 08:30 AM
Bad science, I know this is Dr. Who, so try to tune out the science for the most part, actually it's usually not that bad,
*But gamma rays in lightning? Gamma rays + people = very very dead, if that radiation reached New York in anyway millions would die, more would get cancer
*Lightning carrying the doctors DNA, that didn't make any sense, at all
*A genetics laboratory made up of coloured boiling liquid, oh that'll work
*The genetic in general stunk but I sat through SG:A retrovirus arc so I can't really complain



I was shouting the same thing at the TV/My familly all night.


I thought the Daleks were great. It seems to me that it was only really Dalek Sec who was into the whole hybrid plan - the other three just went along with it because Sec was the leader, until they decided the plan was going to damage them.

...

(BTW, if a Dalek shoots the Doctor, can he regenerate from that? They keep talking about it as if that would be it for him...)

I agree with the first point, I actaully liked Dalek Sec and the idea that he would try and implement change. For the people claiming that Dalek's are not like that I would point out that these are the views of one Dalek and do not show the views of their people as a whole. But even Dalek Sec couldn't make it a good episode.

As for the question at the end, I was wondering the same thing. I suppose it doesn't make the show very exciting though if the Doctor just stands there and goes, "Kill me, I don't care I still have two more lives." If you wan't a cannon explanation I suppose you could claim the Dalek's made an anti-regeneration gun during the time war.

ShadowMaat
April 29th, 2007, 01:53 PM
Well, Human-Dalek Sec seemed fine to just go and live peacefully, without the exterminating and "supreme race" stuff, so I figured that's why the Doctor was helping.
Does anyone honestly believe that the Daleks- who have been experimenting on humans, turning some of them into mindless pig-slaves and making a thousand into empty shells waiting to be filled with Dalek DNA- do you really think that with their army of 1,000 mutant Dalek-human-slaves (they were, after all, going to be entirely controlled by one Dalek) they would just slink off to some distant world to live out their lives in peace and harmony?

I find it hard to believe that the Doctor would honestly think the Daleks would go off and never cause harm to anyone again. "If there's even a chance..." Yeah, maybe with three under-powered Daleks and a mutant freak, but with an army of a thousand slave-soldiers in tow?? Slave-soldiers with Daleked-up Tommy guns?! Riiight. Have I mentioned this great little swamp planet I have for sale? :P

Blitz
April 29th, 2007, 02:34 PM
Does anyone honestly believe that the Daleks- who have been experimenting on humans, turning some of them into mindless pig-slaves and making a thousand into empty shells waiting to be filled with Dalek DNA- do you really think that with their army of 1,000 mutant Dalek-human-slaves (they were, after all, going to be entirely controlled by one Dalek) they would just slink off to some distant world to live out their lives in peace and harmony?

I find it hard to believe that the Doctor would honestly think the Daleks would go off and never cause harm to anyone again. "If there's even a chance..." Yeah, maybe with three under-powered Daleks and a mutant freak, but with an army of a thousand slave-soldiers in tow?? Slave-soldiers with Daleked-up Tommy guns?! Riiight. Have I mentioned this great little swamp planet I have for sale? :P

Thats the thing! Its about hope - if you carry on thinking that nothing good can come from bad you might as well give up!

One person CAN change everything, and I think the idea was that the hybrid slaves wernt going to be slaves - they only became slaves because of the intervention of the other daleks.

These were going to be independent free thinking daleks, a whole new generation and start for the Dalek empire! Hope, hope hope hope - thats what Sec, and then the Dr had.

One person can change the world - for better or worse - it can be done.

Phantom Limb
April 29th, 2007, 03:21 PM
some people seem to be forgetting that these daleks are meant to have imaginations, they think outside the box, so in order for them to survive they evolve, it's pretty straight forward, even for a Dalek, one that see's no future for it's race remember.
but anyway, on to the episode.
what the hell!! haha
so they ran down their power cells doing an emergency temporal shift and thats why they dont just exterminate everything and need to evolve and....
frak sake, RECHARGE!
i would have found it infinitely more believable if the Daleks had tampered with the Empire State building to channel the gamma radiation into themselves thus powering back up to full charge, the resulting channeling of gamma radiation onto the earth would have spilled off of the empire state building and killed everyone in New York so the doctor must stop them at all costs, that makes more sense to me anyway.

but that didnt happen, oh no, so what we got was, well, not that bad in all honesty, it had its good points, the idea of the Human Dalek becoming something new, something unexpected was nice and the way he was treated by the other Daleks was spot on, in chains, humiliated, exterminated.
i thought that the point of that guys god speech and plea to the Daleks is just to remind us how ruthless the Daleks are, and yes i to was willing that Dalek to scream "EXTERMINATE!" after i heard it.
joining together for a better tomorrow, bloody hell!

the rest was confusing and made no sense, timelords are really hard to kill it seems, i mean they'd have to be on par with the T-1000, the plot was so hastily resolved and timelord/dalek/human DNA all mixing and somehow that makes them Dalek zombies to start with and then what, the rest of the DNA had to kick in? pretty sloppy.
but the Dalek tommy guns were cool, haha
i agree that the doctor does seem to be shouting alot and screaming, NOOOOOOO! to the heavens on more than one occasion, maybe timelords have bad hearing, aha i have discovered the Doctor's achilles heel!

not good when compared to the two parters of last year, or any other Dalek story for that matter, the weakest of the bunch but not the worst episode overall if only for the fact that the Daleks were in it, but they'll be back,in the hands of RTD hopefully.
sorry Torchwood writer Helen Raynor if you'd left out the beastiality it may not have seemed so bad.

Matt G
April 29th, 2007, 03:27 PM
1. Didn't have a problem with Dalek Sec. He had enough humanity to want to change his race's ways but got stabbed in the back. Fine.

2. I suspect we'll see Dalek Khan for one last ep next season and that'll be it, no more Daleks.

3. "We should be able to get along, what do you say?" "Exterminate!" :D

4. Meh on Laslo.

Overall, better than last week, maybe not quite as good as Shakespeare Code.

ShadowMaat
April 29th, 2007, 03:28 PM
Yeah, funny how they were "stuck" in 1930 until the very end when the Doctor was advancing on the sole survivor and her just emergency time jumped (whatever) out.

Willow'sCat
April 29th, 2007, 05:17 PM
They are Daleks. In my canon they would never do this. No way.

People want to excuse it as some "growth" for a race that cannot grow or change fine, want to say it is all about "hope" :rolleyes: but you are imho putting human beliefs/traits before Dalek ones.

If one of the Daleks could have been the one Rose touched then I might (big huge might) have seen the sense but here we have pure Daleks. Death should have been a better option then mixing DNA. Also I asked last week why humans? There has to be better candidates in the universe then humans. And lets not forget so easily that in "Dalek" that Dalek chose death over having human traits.

No. This has so many plot holes and unbelievable and unforgivable re-writing of Dalek canon; I almost want to cry. :( I think in the end The Daleks own actions prove that they are not like this, that yes death is better but it was a long way to travel to come to a conclusion that should (and was to this fan) be apparent from the start. :cool:


Worse ep of Doctor Who since.... Well I will have to think on that one. :cool::D

lord-anubis
April 29th, 2007, 11:24 PM
Bad science, I know this is Dr. Who, so try to tune out the science for the most part, actually it's usually not that bad,
*But gamma rays in lightning? Gamma rays + people = very very dead, if that radiation reached New York in anyway millions would die, more would get cancer
*Lightning carrying the doctors DNA, that didn't make any sense, at all
*A genetics laboratory made up of coloured boiling liquid

i agree with that it was the only thing really i had porblems with i don't even know much about science and even i was haveing a hard time beliveing that stuff.


some people seem to be forgetting that these daleks are meant to have imaginations, they think outside the box, so in order for them to survive they evolve, it's pretty straight forward

i havent i don't know why people saying the daleks wouldent do some thing like this or think it. thses daleks as you said are ment to have imaginations and thinking out side the box to surivie and think out side the box.

i liked this ep i had some problems with it but i stilll liked it. dident the daleks in parting of ways and bad wolf make hybirds human daleks? the daleks in evolution were despreit and weakend, which made them think about makeing hybirds sents it was the only way they could think of live sents they couldent make new daleks. as we saw and which i new what would happen the daleks dident like what they saw and killed sec. i also think they probly only planed on useing the hiybird until they could make new daleks. as for the doctor hleping them i think it was just hope they could change after seeing how daleks sec was changed.



Was this a lame attempt to appeal to a US market now that SciFi has agreed to buy another series of the show? And what was the black guy's "god" speech supossed to be about? Doctor Who does not "do" god and to me it felt so out of place.

how was it attempt to apppeal to a us market?

i don't think that god speech was about any thing. that person just happened to belive in god and was trying to talk to the daleks. it dident really borther me



Worse ep of Doctor Who since.... Well I will have to think on that one

sents The Happiness Patrol? no to far back sents love and monsters


just rember the reason why im probly ok with the doctor help thing is probly beacuse some thing i heard the 8th doctor say in blood of the daleks i can't rember exactly what he said. thou some thing about if there was the silghtest chance of the daleks chagneing or able to feel some thing like that can't rember

Madeleine
April 30th, 2007, 02:37 AM
Kinda seemed like that, didn't it? But it's the Chrysler Building. You can tell because the top is different.

A lot of Brits get to the top of the ESB and see what they always thought was the ESB and get a real "OMG the jetlag has sent me insane" moment. It's very freaky.

The ESB is the famous name over here, but the chrysler buliding is prettier and hence is on most of the postcards our friends and relatives send home to us, for us to assume we're being sent the ESB.

It's probably analogous to the name "London Bridge" being famous but the image of tower bridge being famous and lots of furriners think the latter is the former.

Madeleine
April 30th, 2007, 03:00 AM
I find it hard to believe that the Doctor would honestly think the Daleks would go off and never cause harm to anyone again.

I don't think he really fully believed it, but perhaps he couldn't bring himself to commit cold genocide. Tom Baker's Doctor couldn't in Genesis of the Daleks. It's as if he's happy to destroy them in a 'fair fight', but not otherwise, and Sec gave him enough excuse to (have to) give the Daleks a chance. There's a perversion in the logic, but it's just about credible.

P-90_177
April 30th, 2007, 03:02 AM
i thought this episode was good. i was kind of hoping that the cult of skarro would be more of a threat than they were but considering that they were designed to come up with new ways to carry on the dalek race and to think outside the very small dalek box of a mind. as for the fact that the daleks would never do it well keep in mind that what sec was wanting was aggression, hatred and ambition which he saw as what he needed to carry on the human race. he hadn't realised that it would result in all the other emotions. the other daleks were just there to follow and do his bidding but they still thought like daleks.

wise one
April 30th, 2007, 05:28 AM
i dont see why they didnt recharge themselves after the temporal shift, in 'dalek' the dalek used his plunger stick to tap into the power grid of america and take the whole coast of utah. why didnt the cult of skaro do that.

and didnt the doctor alter time for earth. leavings dead pig men, dalek shells and a black dalek siut, that and a dalek laboratory dalek tommie guns, dalekieum and not to mentions loads of witnesses.

torchwood would be well defended in the future now, now that when the cybermen and daleks come through the void again

Dusk
April 30th, 2007, 07:02 AM
Evolution for the Daleks... Devolvement for the show...

THIS
WAS
ABYSMAL
!!!!

How could they air this rubbish and call it Who? I'm gasping for air, this really knocked the wind out of me like a whiff of rotting flesh. So tedious, ridiculous, contrived, absolutely horrible! Loose plot ends all over the place! I have some serious worries as to the quality of the show after watching this two-parter. I didn't even like David let alone Freema in this episode.

I am officially erasing the existence of these episodes from my bruised mind. You do it too, all of you. And pray that this was a one-off stumble on the show, and not a sign of things to come.

And they've gotta stop using that damned sonic screwdriver so much, they're butchering its chic and sexy existence!

Oh the humanity!!!!


And I also just remembered, what the hell happened to Art Deco Daleks??? Perhaps would have lifted the enjoyment of this episode from zero to one at the least. All I heard about leading up to this episode was "you're gonna see Art Deco Daleks..."

Um..

Where??

...

Oh the humanity!!!!!!!!!!

P-90_177
April 30th, 2007, 08:33 AM
calm down. breathe.

pbellosom
April 30th, 2007, 08:47 AM
And I also just remembered, what the hell happened to Art Deco Daleks??? Perhaps would have lifted the enjoyment of this episode from zero to one at the least. All I heard about leading up to this episode was "you're gonna see Art Deco Daleks..."

Um..

Where??

...


Hey! You're right!

panzor
April 30th, 2007, 01:00 PM
This episode was some what of a let down, especially after having watched the Genesis of the Daleks with, Tom Baker recently, I mean in that they actually killed Davros, their own creator, so there is no way they wouldn't just gun down the hybrid as soon as he emerged.

Also, I not sure if I am right about this, but wasn't that last Dalek's name Khan??? Because as soon as he said that and then teleported away, I excepted the Doctor to shoot, KHANNNN!!!! :P

Rabid Coot
April 30th, 2007, 01:02 PM
And I also just remembered, what the hell happened to Art Deco Daleks??? Perhaps would have lifted the enjoyment of this episode from zero to one at the least. All I heard about leading up to this episode was "you're gonna see Art Deco, Daleks..."

Um..

Where??



I guess the spoilers forgot a comma.

Darren
April 30th, 2007, 01:29 PM
The whole 2-parter was pretty disappointing, but this second half much moreso. Plot holes aplenty. I was completely lost when gamma radiation from the sun suddenly manifested itself as lightening (the Frankenstein image is just more dramatic, I suppose). And after going through so much effort with the genetics lab and pumping the shells full of a solution with hybrid DNA -- oops, now it's all Dalek DNA -- to have the Doctor's DNA mixed in solely because the lightening passed through him?

Please.

The semi-happy ending for Laslo was weird and unnecessary. He's a tragic character who is limping toward death the entire episode. Just let him die. Now he's alive but not restored to pre-pig form, so we're left with his hacky image of him in a trenchcoat and hat living out the rest of his life in the slums, trying not to picture him mating with the showgirl and having weird pigbabies. It's just not necessary.

I don't mind Dalek Sec's rather anti-Dalek philosophy. Every species has its oddballs who buck the system, and faced with the end of his species (again) it was a reasonable leap to make. It would NOT have rung true if the other Daleks had gone along and not turned on him. They showed true Dalek colors, which is what we needed to see in order for the writers to have kept from selling them out.

All in all, I was eager for this one to finally be over. A mediocre episode.

jonno
April 30th, 2007, 08:32 PM
Indeed.

Poor. Very poor. Like Darren just said, I have no objection to having a slightly 'different' Dalek in Sec. but it was all just written so poorly, and didn't work.

Oh, and as a Molecular Biology student, the entire engineering thing made me wince. Loads.
And as someone who ... well, did Physics at school, the 'Gamma Radiation = Lightning' thing made me wince more.

So, you can imagine my agony when they combined 'gamma radiation lightning with genetic transfer of DNA through a building' ... I know the science is not always something i should consider with Who ... but I have my limits.

Oh. And 'Emergency Temporal Shifting' AGAIN was as much a cop-out as the constant beaming out in Stargate has become.

That said, I did mildly enjoy it - because it gave me plenty to mock. In a bad way.

By far the weakest Who I've seen (yet to see 'Love and Monsters').

Darren
April 30th, 2007, 09:20 PM
Not to go too far off topic, but I kind of enjoyed the change of pace in "Love and Monsters." It was way out there, and only tangentially Who, but in a clever way that made me care about the characters.

Doctor Who has an unabashedly campy element, and that's great. Watch it and love it for what it is. But "Evolution of the Daleks" was bad camp. Sloppy, unbelievable camp.

P-90_177
May 1st, 2007, 11:04 AM
you really should ignore the bad science. doctor who is all about bad science. it's what makes it so great. the idea is that becasue we humans are so primitive we couldn't possibly imagine how this stuff happens or works. Just like the tardis, the gamma radiation lightning, the dna transfer, sonic screw driver, how they moved the techtonic plates back etc etc etc.

Pitry
May 1st, 2007, 12:02 PM
Hmm.. I dunno about plotholes, tho. I think it mainly felt like there were obvious plotholes because it actually attempted to have a plot, which was its weakest point.

But TBH I've enjoyed Evolution of the Daleks much better than Daleks in Manhattan. Both episodes are still much weaker in comparison to the first three, definitely, but Evolution still had some lovely points.

As for Dalek Sec, well I have to agree that as logn as the rest of the Daleks refused to go on with the plan it did feel possible. Also, keep in mind that Sec's idea for the continuation of the species changed only after he took human form, he'd haev never accepted it when he was a pure Dalek.

Willow'sCat
May 1st, 2007, 06:15 PM
Well I loved Love and Monsters, and for that matter The Happiness Patrol. :)

But this was just bad. I would expect this on Torchwood :D but not on Doctor Who which I feel has at least tried to stay away from this kind of thing, at least when it did go there it did it with a huge heap of humour, in this case the show seemed to takes itself so seriously.

Reefgirl
May 2nd, 2007, 12:05 AM
I liked Happiness Patrol too, it was so bad it was good

ShadowMaat
May 2nd, 2007, 04:39 AM
At least L&M didn't try to take itself seriously, so the unlikeliness of it all was kinda forgivable. But Evolution of the Daleks had no such excuse- it was a cheesy ep passed off as something deadly serious. All my opinion of course. :rolleyes:

Pitry
May 2nd, 2007, 06:54 AM
I dunno about "deadly serious". Nothing in Doctor Who feels to me as deasdly serious.... yeah, they meant their angsty bits and did a plot episode, but it had enough silliness, dind't it. I mean... they hd pig slaves! :D

Madeleine
May 3rd, 2007, 09:26 PM
There've been 33 eps broadcast in the past three years, of which seven have had Daleks in. Over twenty percent. That's too many.

Reefgirl
May 4th, 2007, 12:06 AM
Back in the Classic series days the Daleks only turned up every couple of years and that was always eagerly awaited, the BBC could guarentee a huge rating for those episodes. My daughter isn't that much of a fan of Dr Who but I always ask her if she wants to watch it with me, this time it was "Oh not the Daleks again"

Time to give them a break and time for some new reoccuring baddies

Willow'sCat
May 4th, 2007, 06:47 PM
Well I am not buying that the main reason this sucked was The Daleks. It was a bad ep imho because it was a bad ep. No enemy could have saved it, I can't pick just one thing (like it being The Daleks) as reason it sucked big time, there are just too many things/reasons. :cool:

I notice on "another" :D forum many are raving about it but I still fail to see where they are coming from. I guess like Stargate and some other shows, fandom will love anything as long as it is part of the franchise.

That makes me kinda sad. :(

(Not that people are not allowed to see the good points or that my opinion is better then others...blah, blah, blah.)

Missster.Freeman
May 5th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Ah well. It was a total mess. :S It felt like I was watching a bunch of scenes that were unconnected and cobbled together to make up a 45 minute episode.

I kind of knew the last Dalek would have some form of escape plan. I mean, I don't think the current PTB would want to be known as the ones who killed off the Daleks.

Still, I'm glad it has not put me off Doctor Who because I would have ignored this week's episode and thankfully, it was a huge improvement - much better than the combined effort of the Dalek storyline. I would also have missed that preview for the next episode. Wow!

The Signal
May 5th, 2007, 12:11 PM
I think the ep was poorly written, and the acting was even worse, David and Freema were brilliant as always, but the majority of the rest were quite bad IMO. As for the story, I dunno, I can see The Doctor siding with Human Dalek Sec, but the others? No way, he would never side with the rest of the cult of Skaro. The human Daleks seemed unlikely, sure The Daleks may want to make such creatures to serve them, but to give them a place in their army, to make them one of their own, no.

4/10 - meaning this ep and the last average out at a 5/10

Madeleine
May 5th, 2007, 12:20 PM
I notice on "another" :D forum many are raving about it but I still fail to see where they are coming from. I guess like Stargate and some other shows, fandom will love anything as long as it is part of the franchise.

That makes me kinda sad.

Makes me happy. It's better that some other people are being made happy by this story than that everyone was left feeling as time-wasted as I was. :)

Trek_Girl42
July 23rd, 2007, 09:41 PM
Frak. That sucked. I mean really.....I knew it was bad, so I was looking for something good but.....The Daleks yelling "Pig Slaves" was what I came up with (loved it every time they said that for some reason).

But wow.....not only was the ep overall bad, but the editing of it was brutal. How did the Doctor go from standing in the theater to suddenly standing in the empire state building in front of the Dalek at the end? It felt like an entire scene was missing!

Don't buy the Dalek evolution thing for a second. Or any of the "science" in this ep, and I'm usually not picky about that.

Oh and the acting all round stucked except for DT FA. Especially of Dalek Sec, Lazlo, and Tahllula. :rolleyes: And I wanted to strangle her by the end of last week!

The "speech" was stupid. We all knew what would happen.

And the shippiness was annoying. I don't mind Martha fancying the Doctor (what straight woman wouldn't?), but it a) doesn't need to be so frakkin obvious, and b) there don't need to be any "conversations" about it.


First time watching Doctor Who that I couldn't wait for the ep to end. The preview for next week was more exciting than the whole ep combined, can't wait! :P :D

teal'c2006
July 23rd, 2007, 09:44 PM
Frak. That sucked. I mean really.....I knew it was bad, so I was looking for something good but.....The Daleks yelling "Pig Slaves" was what I came up with (loved it every time they said that for some reason).

But wow.....not only was the ep overall bad, but the editing of it was brutal. How did the Doctor go from standing in the theater to suddenly standing in the empire state building in front of the Dalek at the end? It felt like an entire scene was missing!

Don't buy the Dalek evolution thing for a second. Or any of the "science" in this ep, and I'm usually not picky about that.

Oh and the acting all round stucked except for DT FA. Especially of Dalek Sec, Lazlo, and Tahllula. :rolleyes: And I wanted to strangle her by the end of last week!

The "speech" was stupid. We all knew what would happen.

And the shippiness was annoying. I don't mind Martha fancying the Doctor (what straight woman wouldn't?), but it a) doesn't need to be so frakkin obvious, and b) there don't need to be any "conversations" about it.


First time watching Doctor Who that I couldn't wait for the ep to end. The preview for next week was more exciting than the whole ep combined, can't wait! :P :DSo what do u think of there new evolution.

Trek_Girl42
July 23rd, 2007, 09:47 PM
So what do u think of there new evolution.
Ummm.....summing up my post, it sucked. ;)

teal'c2006
July 23rd, 2007, 09:50 PM
Ummm.....summing up my post, it sucked. ;)
I agree...... What were they thinking....

MmmmMcKAy
July 24th, 2007, 06:33 AM
Yeah, that was pretty bad for Doctor Who. I expect so much more from this show than what I saw last night. It was a real yawner and just plain annoying.
Hope that got the crap out of their systems for the rest of Season 3.;)

Admiral Mappalazarou
July 24th, 2007, 07:13 AM
Well I have to say, it wasn't nearly as bad as Michael and his army or superbugs. *head desk*

But yeah, both dalek eps were bad.

General David Niemi
July 24th, 2007, 07:14 AM
But still. It's always good to see the Daleks :D

Flyboy
July 28th, 2007, 07:24 AM
But still. It's always good to see the Daleks :D
It would have been had it not have been for Doomsday.

My problems with this episode lie simply in the fact it was just a saturation of Daleks. After Doomsday (which I felt was SO unneeded), I was annoyed to see them again. On the whole I didn't MIND the episode, so if it had say appeared after a two year absence of Daleks I may have enjoyed it more.

But several other things ruined it for me. The pig men seemed majorly irrelevant and illogical. I'd rather have seen Robomen as a nod to the Dalek Invasion of Earth. Dalek Sec as a new creature worked fine for me, if he hadn't have still worn those daft shoes and suit. My final problem lies with plot. The daleks have ALWAYS used human DNA to make more daleks. In Revelation of the Daleks we saw for the first time that humans were being turned into Daleks. Because of course, daleks are genetically enegineered. In Parting of the Ways, the Emperor mentions that humans from the Game Station were pulped and their DNA used to create new daleks...

So I'm not sure as to why it seemed so new to the daleks. Granted, this step was slightly bigger but still...

On the plus side, the ep felt a LOT like a classic ep to me, and that amused me. Especially the way the Dalek emerged from the elevator for the first time, and there was a human enemy with an alien behind him. It seemed very retro. As did the daft idea of having a human with a mask being the main baddie, kinda reminded me of City of Death.

MasySyma
August 3rd, 2007, 08:54 PM
That episode was exceedingly odd. I'm not calling it the worst ever (I think I'll reserve that for the Idiot's Lantern), but it wasn't good.

I agree that the Daleks would not choose "to mingle with us commoners" even if their race depended on, but I can't accept the new and improved Dalek Sec.

1. Tell that actor that William Shatner is not an acting icon. Line delivery should not be a word, pause, three words, pause, etc.

2. Dalek Sec took over a guy that was a jerk to begin with. He wasn't exactly a save-the-world-type of guy, but as soon as Sec and Loser Boy merge, he begins to sing of peace, love, and harmony. I might have accepted this if Sec had merged with a monk, a doctor, or anyone else focused on equality and peace, but not a guy that happily sent workers to their possible deaths. He was a human-Dalek before the merger. I can see why the other Daleks were confused.

The pig men still don't make sense, and I want to know why Laslo can talk when they others don't even get lines beyond growls.

I agree with Trek_Girl, the editing was just bad. I'm hoping that the DVD will have deleted scenes that would explain this mess. The episode was jerky, and some scenes dragged while others were just skipped.

1. The "Why Can't We Get Along" speech was awful. It took way too long; it was poorly delivered, and anyone with a brain could figure out that the guy was the equivilant to a Star Trek red shirt as soon as he decided to chat with the Daleks. (Only the Doctor and the main villian are allowed long speeches.) :)

2. If Laslo and Tulullah were supposed to be important, we needed a scene where she yelled at him for thinking that she wouldn't accept him. We at least needed a more dramatic "He lives" scene.

3. I also didn't like the Martha and Tulullah let's ponder our love lives at a critical moment speech. They have eleven minutes, and the companion is busy wondering if the Doctor will get over Rose? I like Martha, but that was dumb and somewhat out of character.

I also agree that plausibility in general was stretched badly this week.

1. The Doctor can get hit by lightning and live to tell the tale. Interesting. His hair wasn't even standing up. Given DT's hair, it should have been on end. The whole gamma ray thing was also bad. I don't even like or study science, and I knew that gamma rays and humans don't mix well.

2. I realize that the Doctor is an amazing timelord, but universal history, time travel, keeping universes and timelines straight, and how the universe should work is already a lot on the man's plate. Apparently, he also has time for a degree in genetics.

Overall, the episode was poorly done. It is truly frightening that this writer is said to be back in Series 4. A 5/10 only because it could have been worse.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
August 4th, 2007, 04:32 PM
i thought that David Tenant did a good job in this episode and i thought for sure that he would kill the last Dalek for good. but i guess we have to season four only 7 more episodes intill season 4 though im waiting for the 3-part season finale/

SGalisa
August 4th, 2007, 07:31 PM
But wow.....not only was the ep overall bad, but the editing of it was brutal. How did the Doctor go from standing in the theater to suddenly standing in the empire state building in front of the Dalek at the end? It felt like an entire scene was missing!

the only question I had was how did the Daleks suddenly show up on the stage of the theater? Instant transport traveling device?


First time watching Doctor Who that I couldn't wait for the ep to end. The preview for next week was more exciting than the whole ep combined, can't wait! :P :D

next week's previews looks like a (more) cheasy bad ep to me. :p

The Daleks one was only bad in the cyclops, octopus make-up of the Dalek hybrid. D-A-L-E-K-S always talk in monotone. But when the two Daleks were plotting mutiny (sort of within the ranks) casting doubts upon their "master"... hee-hee... Oooooooookay. :D

I think the props and creative make-up people decided it was a bad idea to continue that creature in future eps, just because it looked awful! Interesting *conscience* concept, but awful makeup... :(

--------------------

I loved the idea during the ending that the doctor finally got to say
"THE DOCTOR is now IN..!!!" :D


and one more item... I never knew for sure the Statue of Liberty that was shipped to America had a sister / cousin in Paris (France). Heard rumors about it, but never actually saw it anywhere, until today watching an American Idol special segment... and "she" (the original statue) looks small in comparison with the Eiffel tower behind her, too.

I didn't think TPTB actually went to NYC, NY (USA) to film there, when France is just across the river and down the countryside a few (hundred) miles... ;)

Angela V
August 4th, 2007, 08:47 PM
But wow.....not only was the ep overall bad, but the editing of it was brutal. How did the Doctor go from standing in the theater to suddenly standing in the empire state building in front of the Dalek at the end? It felt like an entire scene was missing!

Well, at least I know I wasn't seeing things! I thought the DW episodes are actually longer than what we are used to in North America so the CBC would have to cut somewhere. I didn't notice less commericals during DW:)
And of course mys 7 year old son LOVED it. Anything with Daleks in it. My 3 year old daughter gleefully shouted out Doctor Who when it came on. My son's totally in love with Martha. He didn't care much for Rose.

maneth
July 11th, 2012, 10:53 AM
I'm so tired of mindless/emotionless slaves by now, be they Robomen, Cybermen, run-of-the-mill daleks or pigs on two legs.

maneth
August 21st, 2014, 10:49 AM
Better than the first part, but not by much...