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Mitchell82
February 18th, 2007, 10:54 PM
Good point, especially since Beckett was in 15 episodes as a regular character in season 2, and Carter's only in one less.... There's a fine line between regular and recurring.

I think we'll be lucky to see Torri in more than a handful of eps, which is very sad...
I know how you feel but I don't see it hapening that way. Just b/c Torri's role is reduced doesnt mean she will only be in a handful of eps. I can see her being in at least half.

Sheppard141
February 19th, 2007, 08:36 AM
I have to agree too. I think the whole reducing of her role thing is just to limit the amount of episodes that weir is in for only a few minutes. Like in phantoms she really wasn't until the end of the episode. I think they are trying to give her more episodes where she is in it the whole time like submersion. To help her character to be developed more. She is a main character so I don't see how they could just get rid of her any other way.

Whether or not weir will be replaced by carter, I don't think it could happen. Mainly because weir is a civilian leader and Sam is military. She would have to bump out shep in order to be the military leader. One problem with this is that they are the same rank so she couldn't come and bump him out. Also there are a lot of civilians there so they must have a civilian leader which would be weir. If the writers take weir out and replace her with sam just would not make any sense. Unless they took the time to develop her into the season. But being that she is in for 14 episodes they really don't have a lot of time to achieve this.

Night Spring
February 19th, 2007, 10:10 AM
If the writers take weir out and replace her with sam just would not make any sense. Unless they took the time to develop her into the season. But being that she is in for 14 episodes they really don't have a lot of time to achieve this.
While I don't like the idea of Sam Carter replacing Weir, and hope that doesn't happen, I have to say that 14 episodes does seem like enough time to properly "develop her into the season."

And I don't see how having episodes where Weir is in them only for a few minutes in any way detracts from developing her more fully as they did in Real World and Submersion. If TPTB are committed to developing Weir as a character, they can -- there's no need to drop her from main to recurring in order to do that.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 19th, 2007, 10:22 AM
I have to agree with you here. But I have a question, and this is for anyone. Is Carter really going to be a "recurring" character, or a "regular" character? We know she's in 14 episodes, but I haven't seen anything that says for sure she's recurring, as opposed to having a place in the main credits. I'm not trying to be argumentative - I really want to know, and it's something I haven't been able to get a definitive answer on. I apologize if this is not the appropriate place to ask, and I'm not trying to sidetrack the discussion. I just thought someone might have some information I wasn't aware of.

If I recall, she is going to be a recurring character. I don't think they want her to be regular yet because they want to see how she turns out in Season Four. If the transition turns out well then they'll probably move her to the regular cast. Personally, I'd rather not see her having a place among the main cast just because she's still not an Atlantis character.

Uber
February 19th, 2007, 10:26 AM
If I recall, she is going to be a recurring character. I don't think they want her to be regular yet because they want to see how she turns out in Season Four. If the transition turns out well then they'll probably move her to the regular cast. Personally, I'd rather not see her having a place among the main cast just because she's still not an Atlantis character.With that logic, you must not like McKay or Lorne either.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 19th, 2007, 10:34 AM
If you are referring to the last sentence then, no.Mckay and Lorne aren't essentially SG-1 characters because 1) they aren't/weren't apart of SG-1's regular or recurring cast and 2) they are apart of SGA's recurring and regular cast. Carter, however, is still an active part of the SG-1 cast ( or so I think). And, when did I mention that I didn't like Carter?

Uber
February 19th, 2007, 11:02 AM
If you are referring to the last sentence then, no.Mckay and Lorne aren't essentially SG-1 characters because 1) they aren't/weren't apart of SG-1's regular or recurring cast and 2) they are apart of SGA's recurring and regular cast. Carter, however, is still an active part of the SG-1 cast ( or so I think). And, when did I mention that I didn't like Carter?From your post, you said that you wouldn't want Carter over on SGA because she's not an SGA character. She isn't originally from SGA.

My point was neither were McKay and Lorne.

But then...and here's the key...why does it matter? If she adds something to the storyline and helps solidify the dynamic, does it really and truly matter in the long run that she came from the parent show?

ReganX
February 19th, 2007, 11:19 AM
Whether or not weir will be replaced by carter, I don't think it could happen. Mainly because weir is a civilian leader and Sam is military. She would have to bump out shep in order to be the military leader. One problem with this is that they are the same rank so she couldn't come and bump him out.

Technically, Sam has had more time in grade so she could be appointed as commander of Atlantis and Sheppard would have to report to her. However, I imagine that Sam will be promoted to full colonel if she is to command Atlantis.


Also there are a lot of civilians there so they must have a civilian leader which would be weir. If the writers take weir out and replace her with sam just would not make any sense. Unless they took the time to develop her into the season. But being that she is in for 14 episodes they really don't have a lot of time to achieve this.

There are also a lot of civilians working at the SGC. Those civilians would report to Landry and, where applicable, their SG team leader or department head. If Sam was in command of Atlantis, the civilian members of the expedition would report to her.

Cameron Mitchel
February 19th, 2007, 11:35 AM
Technically, Sam has had more time in grade so she could be appointed as commander of Atlantis and Sheppard would have to report to her. However, I imagine that Sam will be promoted to full colonel if she is to command Atlantis.



There are also a lot of civilians working at the SGC. Those civilians would report to Landry and, where applicable, their SG team leader or department head. If Sam was in command of Atlantis, the civilian members of the expedition would report to her.
But, again, IMO atleast, it wouldn't be right for them to appoint Carter over Atlantis. IMHO it's really not her place.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 19th, 2007, 11:36 AM
From your post, you said that you wouldn't want Carter over on SGA because she's not an SGA character. She isn't originally from SGA.

My point was neither were McKay and Lorne.

But then...and here's the key...why does it matter? If she adds something to the storyline and helps solidify the dynamic, does it really and truly matter in the long run that she came from the parent show?

And by place in the main cast, I meant credits. That wasn't meant to be generally referring to her coming over. In fact, I still don't think 14 episodes is necessary to see how good she'll do on atlantis. and it really just has to do with my concerns that her large influence on SG-1 might carry over to SGA is a negative way. I'm hoping that all of these changes won't have too much of an effect on the show ( negatively). I'm hoping that tptb can still develop the other characters as well as integrate Carter in a way that won't make SGA seem like a watered down SG-1. But, I see what you mean. Its not so much her coming from SG-1 as it is her coming with a bang. You have to understand where I'm coming from. SGA has only finished three seasons with its own cast and now, in only its Fourth year, Atlantis has a major SG-1 character. to me, its enough having her as the main crossover character, but the possibility of her being in command is too much. Because, unlike the SGC, Carter, or anyone else on SG-1 for that matter, doesn't really know how Atlantis should be run and, despite her 10 year experience in the MW, she doesn't have the experience necessary to deal with the Pegasus galaxy. Its a different galaxy with different races. To me, the leader will have to play the role of a negotiator as well, and, I just don't remember Carter in many negotiating situations. Also, she hasn't dealt with a race like the Wraith, or a race like the Asurans( yes, they are repliactors, but they act completely different and they use Ancient technology) Carter having the ability to lead isn't the same as her being qualified to lead atlantis. Yes, she is more than qualified to lead the SGC based on her experiences there, but she has only been to Atlantis once and that was for a short amount of time. She doesn't have the on-base or off-world experiences in Pegasus to qualify her for leadership of the city. That's the reason Weir has been upset with the previous colonels that have entered Atlantis. None of them had the necessary experience to make accurate, intelligent decisions for whatever happened in the Pegasus Galaxy. She would be in the same situation Dr. Weir was in when she took over Hammond's job. And honestly, SGA doesn't need to waste time on getting a new leader up to speed on what's happening. And besides, it would be foolish of TPTB to give Carter that big of a role, especially when there are many SGA fans that have never seen Carter and are therefore unfamiliar with her character. and, as a side thought, it would seem kinda odd for her to come her own ship and then just give the command over to someone else just to lead Atlantis.

Cameron Mitchel
February 19th, 2007, 11:39 AM
And by place in the main cast, I meant credits. That wasn't meant to be generally referring to her coming over. In fact, I still don't think 14 episodes is necessary to see how good she'll do on atlantis. and it really just has to do with my concerns that her large influence on SG-1 might carry over to SGA is a negative way. I'm hoping that all of these changes won't have too much of an effect on the show ( negatively). I'm hoping that tptb can still develop the other characters as well as integrate Carter in a way that won't make SGA seem like a watered down SG-1. But, I see what you mean. Its not so much her coming from SG-1 as it is her coming with a bang. You have to understand where I'm coming from. SGA has only finished three seasons with its own cast and now, in only its Fourth year, Atlantis has a major SG-1 character. to me, its enough having her as the main crossover character, but the possibility of her being in command is too much. Because, unlike the SGC, Carter, or anyone else on SG-1 for that matter, doesn't really know how Atlantis should be run and, despite her 10 year experience in the MW, she doesn't have the experience necessary to deal with the Pegasus galaxy. Its a different galaxy with different races. To me, the leader will have to play the role of a negotiator as well, and, I just don't remember Carter in many negotiating situations. Also, she hasn't dealt with a race like the Wraith, or a race like the Asurans( yes, they are repliactors, but they act completely different and they use Ancient technology) Carter having the ability to lead isn't the same as her being qualified to lead atlantis. Yes, she is more than qualified to lead the SGC based on her experiences there, but she has only been to Atlantis once and that was for a short amount of time. She doesn't have the on-base or off-world experiences in Pegasus to qualify her for leadership of the city. That's the reason Weir has been upset with the previous colonels that have entered Atlantis. None of them had the necessary experience to make accurate, intelligent decisions for whatever happened in the Pegasus Galaxy. She would be in the same situation Dr. Weir was in when she took over Hammond's job. And honestly, SGA doesn't need to waste time on getting a new leader up to speed on what's happening. And besides, it would be foolish of TPTB to give Carter that big of a role, especially when there are many SGA fans that have never seen Carter and are therefore unfamiliar with her character.
Not to mention SGA has finished three seasons with its main cast, and has basically already lost three.

ReganX
February 19th, 2007, 11:47 AM
But, again, IMO atleast, it wouldn't be right for them to appoint Carter over Atlantis. IMHO it's really not her place.

If Weir was to be replaced by a military leader, then I think that Sam would be a good choice. She's a scientist as well as an officer, so the scientists on Atlantis can know that she's not going to neglect that side of the expedition. Because of her time on SG-1 and the amount of times she's saved the world, it's possible that she would be more acceptable a choice to the governments of the other countries involved in the expedition than another US officer would be.

Uber
February 19th, 2007, 12:06 PM
And by place in the main cast, I meant credits. That wasn't meant to be generally referring to her coming over. In fact, I still don't think 14 episodes is necessary to see how good she'll do on atlantis. and it really just has to do with my concerns that her large influence on SG-1 might carry over to SGA is a negative way. I'm hoping that all of these changes won't have too much of an effect on the show ( negatively). I'm hoping that tptb can still develop the other characters as well as integrate Carter in a way that won't make SGA seem like a watered down SG-1. But, I see what you mean. Its not so much her coming from SG-1 as it is her coming with a bang. You have to understand where I'm coming from. SGA has only finished three seasons with its own cast and now, in only its Fourth year, Atlantis has a major SG-1 character. to me, its enough having her as the main crossover character, but the possibility of her being in command is too much. Because, unlike the SGC, Carter, or anyone else on SG-1 for that matter, doesn't really know how Atlantis should be run and, despite her 10 year experience in the MW, she doesn't have the experience necessary to deal with the Pegasus galaxy. Its a different galaxy with different races. To me, the leader will have to play the role of a negotiator as well, and, I just don't remember Carter in many negotiating situations. Also, she hasn't dealt with a race like the Wraith, or a race like the Asurans( yes, they are repliactors, but they act completely different and they use Ancient technology) Carter having the ability to lead isn't the same as her being qualified to lead atlantis. Yes, she is more than qualified to lead the SGC based on her experiences there, but she has only been to Atlantis once and that was for a short amount of time. She doesn't have the on-base or off-world experiences in Pegasus to qualify her for leadership of the city. That's the reason Weir has been upset with the previous colonels that have entered Atlantis. None of them had the necessary experience to make accurate, intelligent decisions for whatever happened in the Pegasus Galaxy. She would be in the same situation Dr. Weir was in when she took over Hammond's job. And honestly, SGA doesn't need to waste time on getting a new leader up to speed on what's happening. And besides, it would be foolish of TPTB to give Carter that big of a role, especially when there are many SGA fans that have never seen Carter and are therefore unfamiliar with her character. and, as a side thought, it would seem kinda odd for her to come her own ship and then just give the command over to someone else just to lead Atlantis.I see your points...but I do believe truly that TPTB are intending on militarizing Atlantis, which would require a military leader.

And I don't think Weir's problem with Caldwell and Ellis had to do with their lack of knowledge of the Pegasus galaxy...but rather with their attitudes. Shoot first, ask questions later. Commanding Atlantis takes a softer touch. It requires finesse. Carter knows how to balance the military interests without caving to political pressures...so she would make a good choice in this regard. Plus she has a history of managing both military and civilian aspects.

Do they need diplomats and negotiators? Yes. And while Carter has had experience in this field, I'm certain they'll have a bevy of diplomats from which to choose so I'm not all that concerned about that qualification. Plus we know from The Return that when necessary, earth will send other representatives to negotiate with potential allies. But I think the tone and tenor of the expedition has changed from its original intent, from exploratory to more of a military command...simply because of the enemies and dangers they've faced. Maintaining a civilian structure under their current circumstances simply isn't tenable and I think the IOA will finally concede this fact. We also know that when it suits their needs, earth will also quite frequently supersede Weir's authority entirely and not even consult her as was demonstrated in First Strike. I think she realizes she's nothing more than a figure head that suits their political agendas.Carter has a long history of not bowing to political pressures so I think she'd be able to handle the IOA quite nicely.

Killdeer
February 19th, 2007, 12:06 PM
If I recall, she is going to be a recurring character. I don't think they want her to be regular yet because they want to see how she turns out in Season Four. If the transition turns out well then they'll probably move her to the regular cast. Personally, I'd rather not see her having a place among the main cast just because she's still not an Atlantis character.

I suppose that fits with AT's statement that she will only be working 4 days per episode, and while I don't know what a normal schedule is, the context seemed to imply that four days/episode was reduced. I guess I was just wondering if anyone had a definitive statement from TPTB.

The reason I'm wondering is because if Carter truly is recurring, then it's less likely (though not impossible I suppose) that she would have episodes focused around her character, such as a regular might expect to have. In that case, I would expect her to stay more as a ship commander, much as Caldwell did this season. This would be my preferred option.

If however, we hear that she will be a regular (14 episodes or not) I would assume that means she will be taking command. Not to say that my assumption would be accurate - there are other possibilities of course, but since AT has said Carter probably will not be traveling through the gate with Shep's team, that leaves a limited number of possibilities for what she will be doing in Atlantis.

And I could be totally wrong! :) She could be recurring and still be in command. But Stargate hasn't had a recurring character in command since the early seasons, with Hammond. He was eventually moved to regular(although I don't know that it increased his screen time), and Landry, O'Neill when he was in command, and Weir until now have all been regular cast members.

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense. :( I should probably stop now. Hope no one takes offense at this post - it's just me thinking some things out and sharing.

There is another possibility I just thought of. Maybe someone somewhere has thought of it already-I never claimed to be original. :) But maybe Carter comes to Atlantis in her ship on a temporary mission, and then her ship gets blown up or badly damaged somehow, thus stranding her with the rest. So maybe her character's part would be trying to find a way to get back home to her own team, family, friends, etc. In that scenario, she wouldn't necessarily be in command. She'd have no special mandate because she really wasn't supposed to be there in the first place. She'd just be stranded with everyone else. That actually might be interesting - Carter totally off balance and out of her comfort zone. Just a thought....that's probably not what will actually happen. Stopping now...really this time.

Night Spring
February 19th, 2007, 12:26 PM
And I could be totally wrong! :) She could be recurring and still be in command. But Stargate hasn't had a recurring character in command since the early seasons, with Hammond.
Hammond has always been a regular main cast member of SG-1, from the very first episode through the end of S7.

I agree that it would feel odd not to have a regular cast member in command of the main base (SGC/Atlantis) in a Stargate show, but that seems to be the direction we are headed in... unless Sheppard (or McKay!!!) ends up in command of Atlantis. Or unless they do put Carter in command of Atlantis *and* make AT a regular cast member.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 19th, 2007, 12:26 PM
I suppose that fits with AT's statement that she will only be working 4 days per episode, and while I don't know what a normal schedule is, the context seemed to imply that four days/episode was reduced. I guess I was just wondering if anyone had a definitive statement from TPTB.

The reason I'm wondering is because if Carter truly is recurring, then it's less likely (though not impossible I suppose) that she would have episodes focused around her character, such as a regular might expect to have. In that case, I would expect her to stay more as a ship commander, much as Caldwell did this season. This would be my preferred option.

If however, we hear that she will be a regular (14 episodes or not) I would assume that means she will be taking command. Not to say that my assumption would be accurate - there are other possibilities of course, but since AT has said Carter probably will not be traveling through the gate with Shep's team, that leaves a limited number of possibilities for what she will be doing in Atlantis.

And I could be totally wrong! :) She could be recurring and still be in command. But Stargate hasn't had a recurring character in command since the early seasons, with Hammond. He was eventually moved to regular(although I don't know that it increased his screen time), and Landry, O'Neill when he was in command, and Weir until now have all been regular cast members.

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense. :( I should probably stop now. Hope no one takes offense at this post - it's just me thinking some things out and sharing.

There is another possibility I just thought of. Maybe someone somewhere has thought of it already-I never claimed to be original. :) But maybe Carter comes to Atlantis in her ship on a temporary mission, and then her ship gets blown up or badly damaged somehow, thus stranding her with the rest. So maybe her character's part would be trying to find a way to get back home to her own team, family, friends, etc. In that scenario, she wouldn't necessarily be in command. She'd have no special mandate because she really wasn't supposed to be there in the first place. She'd just be stranded with everyone else. That actually might be interesting - Carter totally off balance and out of her comfort zone. Just a thought....that's probably not what will actually happen. Stopping now...really this time.

I know for sure that she can't be leader if she will be in future SG-1 movies.

Uber
February 19th, 2007, 12:31 PM
I know for sure that she can't be leader if she will be in future SG-1 movies.Not necessarily. How does one negate the other?

We know that, although the first two movies are being filmed around the same time that Atlantis is, their timelines are different and therefore won't conflict. We don't know when the other movies exist in the timeline of things. Even if they are timed after or during Atlantis's run, that also doesn't mean that Carter can't be involved in both. I've seen nothing to indicate that the expedition will be cut off from earth for any lengthy period of time...so I'm sure she and the others could go back if and when needed.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 19th, 2007, 12:35 PM
Not necessarily. How does one negate the other?

We know that, although the first two movies are being filmed around the same time that Atlantis is, their timelines are different and therefore won't conflict. We don't know when the other movies exist in the timeline of things. Even if they are timed after or during Atlantis's run, that also doesn't mean that Carter can't be involved in both. I've seen nothing to indicate that the expedition will be cut off from earth for any lengthy period of time...so I'm sure she and the others could go back if and when needed.

What kind of leader would she be if she kept going back and forth between galaxies. Unless the movies will take place after she's not leader anymore.

the dancer of spaz
February 19th, 2007, 12:39 PM
I'm sorry for asking this continuously noob-sounding question, but I'm having a really hard time understanding certain viewpoints and arguments (even when they're similar to my own) because we have not had proper clarification regarding the "recurring status" aspect of Carter's role. And, if we have, has it been "official" - from TPTB? I guess I'm just trying to keep it all straight here.

For one thing, we all have definitions, ones we've seen used on past series, etc., but I'm trying to understand the whole deal - 14 episodes could very well be considered full-time status, right? "Recurring" status doesn't just mean any amount of episodes between 1 and 19, right? I ask that because both Amanda Tapping and Michael Shanks had reduced schedules for S9 and S10, and they, of course, were still considered main, regular characters.

It all could be quite moot, but I see that people are using "recurring" and "main" a lot, and I'm still confused about all that...

Uber
February 19th, 2007, 12:42 PM
What kind of leader would she be if she kept going back and forth between galaxies. Unless the movies will take place after she's not leader anymore.I don't know that she'd be dragged away regularly. Frankly I'm not all that convinced there will be more SG-1 movies after these first two. But even if there are, having her go away once or even twice a year wouldn't be an outrageous problem.

Weir was called back to earth for a variety of things for instance. I'm certain that, just as Weir covered her bases and made sure the city was being managed well when she left on business, Carter could easily do the same if necessary.

Killdeer
February 19th, 2007, 12:43 PM
Hammond has always been a regular main cast member of SG-1, from the very first episode through the end of S7.

Ooops.:o I stand corrected. I'd had the impression that at least in the first season he was not a regular, but thanks for pointing that out.


I agree that it would feel odd not to have a regular cast member in command of the main base (SGC/Atlantis) in a Stargate show, but that seems to be the direction we are headed in... unless Sheppard (or McKay!!!) ends up in command of Atlantis. Or unless they do put Carter in command of Atlantis *and* make AT a regular cast member.

Yeah, I know there's that chance. I'm trying to be optimistic I suppose. :) Carter in command is not my first choice. Not to criticise those of you who are wanting to see her in command. It's just something I'm having a hard time with.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 19th, 2007, 12:45 PM
I don't know that she'd be dragged away regularly. Frankly I'm not all that convinced there will be more SG-1 movies after these first two. But even if there are, having her go away once or even twice a year wouldn't be an outrageous problem.

Weir was called back to earth for a variety of things for instance. I'm certain that, just as Weir covered her bases and made sure the city was being managed well when she left on business, Carter could easily do the same if necessary.

Well, Weir didn't have a choice. And, MGM has planned for one SG-1 movie a year, IIRC.

Uber
February 19th, 2007, 12:48 PM
Well, Weir didn't have a choice. And, MGM has planned for one SG-1 movie a year, IIRC.Sure. And it might still happen.

My guess is that if I'm right and Carter is put in command of Atlantis, that she'd leave the city for whatever mission is required and put someone she trusts at the helm why she's gone and takes care of whatever she has to take care of. Timeline wise, the movies could exist pre-SGA or take place during the "down time" on SGA. I don't think there will be the kind of logistics problem that I believe you're anticipating.

Cameron Mitchel
February 19th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Ooops.:o I stand corrected. I'd had the impression that at least in the first season he was not a regular, but thanks for pointing that out.



Yeah, I know there's that chance. I'm trying to be optimistic I suppose. :) Carter in command is not my first choice. Not to criticise those of you who are wanting to see her in command. It's just something I'm having a hard time with.
Same here. Just, to me, SGA won't seem like SGA any more. I'm not sure if I'll enjoy it as much.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 19th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Sure. And it might still happen.

My guess is that if I'm right and Carter is put in command of Atlantis, that she'd leave the city for whatever mission is required and put someone she trusts at the helm why she's gone and takes care of whatever she has to take care of. Timeline wise, the movies could exist pre-SGA or take place during the "down time" on SGA. I don't think there will be the kind of logistics problem that I believe you're anticipating.

That might be possible, but there is no way for sure that she'd still be apart of SG-1.

Uber
February 19th, 2007, 12:56 PM
That might be possible, but there is no way for sure that she'd still be apart of SG-1.That's true too. We do know she's a part of SG-1 for the first two movies; and, as an SG-1 fan, I hope she'd be part of any potential future movies...but only time will tell on all of this.

prion
February 19th, 2007, 01:57 PM
Sure. And it might still happen.

My guess is that if I'm right and Carter is put in command of Atlantis, that she'd leave the city for whatever mission is required and put someone she trusts at the helm why she's gone and takes care of whatever she has to take care of. Timeline wise, the movies could exist pre-SGA or take place during the "down time" on SGA. I don't think there will be the kind of logistics problem that I believe you're anticipating.


Putting carter in charge of atlantis? She has no leadership skills/background to run an entire community. Unless of course the writers decide to suddenly add yet another skill set to her background.

RealmOfX
February 19th, 2007, 02:10 PM
Putting carter in charge of atlantis? She has no leadership skills/background to run an entire community. Unless of course the writers decide to suddenly add yet another skill set to her background.

:rolleyes:

What do you think all military officers are trained to do as an everyday part of their lives?

:rolleyes:

Uber
February 19th, 2007, 02:35 PM
Putting carter in charge of atlantis? She has no leadership skills/background to run an entire community. Unless of course the writers decide to suddenly add yet another skill set to her background.Actually she was put in charge of Area 51's R&D at the start of Season 9 and also was left in charge of the SGC in Uninvited.She was in charge of the team in Season 8 and has regularly had to be in charge of both military and civilian assets over the last decade, more so in the last couple of years.

Killdeer
February 19th, 2007, 02:43 PM
I'm sorry for asking this continuously noob-sounding question, but I'm having a really hard time understanding certain viewpoints and arguments (even when they're similar to my own) because we have not had proper clarification regarding the "recurring status" aspect of Carter's role. And, if we have, has it been "official" - from TPTB? I guess I'm just trying to keep it all straight here.

For one thing, we all have definitions, ones we've seen used on past series, etc., but I'm trying to understand the whole deal - 14 episodes could very well be considered full-time status, right? "Recurring" status doesn't just mean any amount of episodes between 1 and 19, right? I ask that because both Amanda Tapping and Michael Shanks had reduced schedules for S9 and S10, and they, of course, were still considered main, regular characters.

It all could be quite moot, but I see that people are using "recurring" and "main" a lot, and I'm still confused about all that...

I apologize if I am one of the ones adding to your confusion. I was initially just asking for clarification myself. To me, "main" or "regular" character means that they will be included in the opening credits. I haven't seen anything official saying that AT is "recurring", only that she will be in 14 episodes, and I think many people are assuming her to be recurring because 14 episodes isn't a full season. However, in my mind, even at 14 episodes, there's a chance she could be a "main" character, i.e. listed along with Shep, McKay, Teyla & Ronan in the opening credits. I was just wanting to know whether or not anyone had heard anything from TPTB one way or another. As to why is it relevant to this thread...my current working theory is that whether or not Carter is in command depends on what her character status is. Admittedly, it's a theory that's got its flaws...:o

the dancer of spaz
February 19th, 2007, 03:08 PM
I apologize if I am one of the ones adding to your confusion. I was initially just asking for clarification myself. To me, "main" or "regular" character means that they will be included in the opening credits. I haven't seen anything official saying that AT is "recurring", only that she will be in 14 episodes, and I think many people are assuming her to be recurring because 14 episodes isn't a full season. However, in my mind, even at 14 episodes, there's a chance she could be a "main" character, i.e. listed along with Shep, McKay, Teyla & Ronan in the opening credits. I was just wanting to know whether or not anyone had heard anything from TPTB one way or another. As to why is it relevant to this thread...my current working theory is that whether or not Carter is in command depends on what her character status is. Admittedly, it's a theory that's got its flaws...:o

I agree with your sentiment. :) Until we see the first episode (or someone clarifies big time), there's no telling what capacity her role will be.

chocdoc
February 19th, 2007, 04:35 PM
I agree with your sentiment. :) Until we see the first episode (or someone clarifies big time), there's no telling what capacity her role will be.


I think that's true. I haven't seen it stated anywhere if Sam is a recurring or regular character. I think people assume she is recurring because it is 14 episodes, but I have no idea. I don't think TPTB have said one way or another.

RepliHawk
February 19th, 2007, 04:40 PM
Putting carter in charge of atlantis? She has no leadership skills/background to run an entire community.

I think she could handle it

ReganX
February 20th, 2007, 09:53 AM
Actually she was put in charge of Area 51's R&D at the start of Season 9 and also was left in charge of the SGC in Uninvited.She was in charge of the team in Season 8 and has regularly had to be in charge of both military and civilian assets over the last decade, more so in the last couple of years.

Plus, by taking her out of her safe zone, the writers would be giving her a fantastic chance to develop as a character and challenging themselves to look at the character from another angle.

prion
February 20th, 2007, 10:03 AM
:rolleyes:

What do you think all military officers are trained to do as an everyday part of their lives?

:rolleyes:

To run an ENTIRE city? No, don't think so. Sorry. It's been readily established her main background is SCIENCE.

ussrelativity
February 20th, 2007, 10:15 AM
I hope we can get some new information in the next few weeks, as long as it is not a spoiler for any episodes.

Daniel Jackson
February 20th, 2007, 12:04 PM
To run an ENTIRE city? No, don't think so. Sorry. It's been readily established her main background is SCIENCE.
Atlantis doubles as a space ship, so it does make sense to place Carter in charge. She's a leader, a soldier, and a scientist. That's who needed to be in charge from the get go. Don't get me wrong, I love Dr. Weir and would rather have her in charge, but if the producers are going to replace Weir, Carter is the perfect choice. Well, Daniel would be a perfect choice too, but I'm guessing Shanks didn't want to cross over to SG:A, evidence by his lack of guest appearances after "Rising."

Atlantis1
February 20th, 2007, 12:11 PM
I think Weir is still the best to command Atlantis. With her background and lack of being tied to the military she is in a better position to run a base that is civilian as will as some military.

I think it is too far of a stretch to have her working with SG-1 and commanding Atlantis. It would pull her in two different directions. She needs to keep her mind fully on a job like leading Atlantis. I'm not saying she is not smart. Just the leader of Atlantis needs to be focused on the job at hand. I trully think Weir desires the position as she worked very hard to get it up and running.

Night Spring
February 20th, 2007, 12:35 PM
II think it is too far of a stretch to have her working with SG-1 and commanding Atlantis. It would pull her in two different directions. She needs to keep her mind fully on a job like leading Atlantis. I'm not saying she is not smart. Just the leader of Atlantis needs to be focused on the job at hand. I trully think Weir desires the position as she worked very hard to get it up and running.
Yes, exactly. Unless the movies all take place before or after Sam's stint as leader of Atlantis, I feel it would be detrimental to both the movie and Atlantis to have Sam shuttling back and forth between her responsibilities at Atlantis and whatever role she takes in the movies. It would make more sense if Sam was in command of a ship like the Daedalus or Odyssey, and her ship happens to be in whichever galaxy as required by the movie or by Atlantis. Too much of back and forth on that, however, and it'd start feeling like "deux ex Sam" -- Sam and her ship, going wherever they are needed the most! :D

obsessed1
February 20th, 2007, 01:04 PM
oh dear, carter running Atlantis!! *shudders* I'd rather see someone else if its not going to be weir running atlantis. And to be fair, shep does a good job. He could part time run atlantis and then leave it to someone else when he's off-world.

Basically, anyone, but carter!!

I know, lets have a lemming run atlantis :D

Uber
February 20th, 2007, 01:12 PM
Yes, exactly. Unless the movies all take place before or after Sam's stint as leader of Atlantis, I feel it would be detrimental to both the movie and Atlantis to have Sam shuttling back and forth between her responsibilities at Atlantis and whatever role she takes in the movies. It would make more sense if Sam was in command of a ship like the Daedalus or Odyssey, and her ship happens to be in whichever galaxy as required by the movie or by Atlantis. Too much of back and forth on that, however, and it'd start feeling like "deux ex Sam" -- Sam and her ship, going wherever they are needed the most! :DIn a live chat last Friday, Amanda was asked about the timing of the movies versus her move to Atlantis and she said that even though they were being filmed at the same time, the timelines for each were different...so there won't be any conflict in that regard.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 01:25 PM
So those are the only movies or she's only going to be in Atlantis for 1 year. Either way, I still don't see how that can't realistically work. And I still don't think Carter can't really replace Weir. I don't think anyone can. Realistically Carter would not have been placed in Atlantis. If Oneill thinks Daniel is too valuable to go to Atlantis then Carter is too. Come on. Is there really any way they would actually put her in comamnd of Atlantis, despite her experience? Is there really no one else?

Killdeer
February 20th, 2007, 02:44 PM
Well, referring back to our earlier discussion about "regular" vs "recurring", the news articles posted today seem to settle that question. It does sound like she'll be in command, they just don't want to come right out and say it. Wow. Ummmm....ok. I'm going to need some time to come to terms with this, but maybe it will work out (trying to be positive here-sigh). Can't say I think it's the best thing for the show, but I will still give it a chance.

EDITED: to take out article quotes because I didn't see that there were already threads talking about the articles. Oops! Sorry about that!

Sheppard141
February 20th, 2007, 03:32 PM
You know, you would think the writers would not mess with the way the show is currently. They are getting good ratings with weir as the leader or how it was now but with Sam coming in as the leader, they'll lose a lot of viewers including me. I am personality tired of seeing Sam's character, she was on SG-1 for ten seasons and now she is joining Atlantis for who knows how many seasons. I wouldn't be upset if Danny was running Atlantis though..... :) I just don't understand why they would get rid of Weir and replace her with Sam, what does Sam have that could make a better leader then Weir. Hopefully that is not the case and Sam is joining that cast as a scientist or something and weir will stay as the leader. Well that is probably just wishful thinking.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 03:32 PM
Actually, I don't think she'll be in command. She'll have a 'support' role. doesn't sound like a command role to me. Seems like she's going to be in Caldwell's position but with a slight scientific twist on that role. If she was in command she would have a much bigger role.

prion
February 20th, 2007, 03:35 PM
In a live chat last Friday, Amanda was asked about the timing of the movies versus her move to Atlantis and she said that even though they were being filmed at the same time, the timelines for each were different...so there won't be any conflict in that regard.

Is there a transcript up of the chat somewhere?

Uber
February 20th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Is there a transcript up of the chat somewhere?I believe there's one on www.theamandatappingclub.net and I think I've seen other people with transcripts.

Uber
February 20th, 2007, 04:01 PM
Actually, I don't think she'll be in command. She'll have a 'support' role. doesn't sound like a command role to me. Seems like she's going to be in Caldwell's position but with a slight scientific twist on that role. If she was in command she would have a much bigger role.Actually I interpreted "support" to mean she won't be on Shep's team. So I think that it's more and more likely that she'll be in charge of the city.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 04:05 PM
You'd expect her to have a bigger role as leader of the city. I really don't think she will be in command, especially since the chosen response to her and Weir's command structure was, she'll have a support role. Besides, As leader, I wouldn't expect her to be delving into scientific matters that much. He said she'll be an importnat member of the Atlantis Expedition, meaning she'll be doing something besides sitting at a desk, listening to others' comments. As leader, she would have to be constantly doing paperwork, typing up reports, acting very much like Weir. She'd be very, very busy, leaving little time for actually helping the SGA characters in their activities. And no, I doubt they'd put her with Sheppard's team in a role of any quantity. Because I doubt that they'd demote Sheppard so far as to remove him as head of his team. If she's leader she'll obviously have to have an assistant like Oneill. She surely would try to handle military and scientific matters while trying to be leader would she? And she will be helping out Mckay, right? Although her having to rely on her skills as a leader does support her being in command. I just don't see it happening like that.

Uber
February 20th, 2007, 04:10 PM
You'd expect her to have a bigger role as leader of the city. I really don't think she will be in command, especially since the chosen response to her and Weir's command structure was, she'll have a support role.Joe didn't want to answer it. He's leaving a lot open to interpretation. But given the state of affairs on the show, I think that it's almost a foregone conclusion that Carter will take over Weir's position, which she'll be forced to vacate because of either political reasons or she's unable to return for OTHER reasons.

Cameron Mitchel
February 20th, 2007, 04:13 PM
Joe didn't want to answer it. He's leaving a lot open to interpretation. But given the state of affairs on the show, I think that it's almost a foregone conclusion that Carter will take over Weir's position, which she'll be forced to vacate because of either political reasons or she's unable to return for OTHER reasons.
What's up with "political reasons?" She isn't a politician, unless you mean some political people, wait, not even that, don't you mean IOA? And, she won't be in command. I was fearing she might be in command, which I'm totally against, but from what the whatever-you-call-it said, she will have a support role... she...won't overshadow anything that's already in place...

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 04:15 PM
Joe didn't want to answer it. He's leaving a lot open to interpretation. But given the state of affairs on the show, I think that it's almost a foregone conclusion that Carter will take over Weir's position, which she'll be forced to vacate because of either political reasons or she's unable to return for OTHER reasons.

If that's the case then I still can't possibly see why carter would be chosen above anyone else. I acn see the IOA putting Woolsey in command of Atlantis above Carter, not that I'd like that but it would be more realistic. they don't like her that much.

Uber
February 20th, 2007, 04:19 PM
What's up with "political reasons?" She isn't a politician, unless you mean some political people, wait, not even that, don't you mean IOA? And, she won't be in command. I was fearing she might be in command, which I'm totally against, but from what the whatever-you-call-it said, she will have a support role... she...won't overshadow anything that's already in place...True. She won't take over Shep's team. She won't shove McKay to the side and take over the science department. She'll serve in a leadership capacity and support all the above.

Cameron Mitchel
February 20th, 2007, 04:21 PM
True. She won't take over Shep's team. She won't shove McKay to the side and take over the science department. She'll serve in a leadership capacity and support all the above.
Naw, I don't think she'll be leading. ...ANYTHING that's already in place.

prion
February 20th, 2007, 04:21 PM
Joe didn't want to answer it. He's leaving a lot open to interpretation. But given the state of affairs on the show, I think that it's almost a foregone conclusion that Carter will take over Weir's position, which she'll be forced to vacate because of either political reasons or she's unable to return for OTHER reasons.

Mallozzi's the master of vague answers and you can read a lot into 'support' role. but it sounds like she WON'T be on Shep's team, which to me, is important. I want the team dynamic to stay as it is.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 04:22 PM
True. She won't take over Shep's team. She won't shove McKay to the side and take over the science department. She'll serve in a leadership capacity and support all the above.

I for one don't think she'll be in command because, leadership skills or not, she still isn't as skilled in negotiating as someone like Weir or Daniel. And with that new race, I imagine the leader would have to do some negotiating. and I don't remember ever thinking she'd be on Sheppard's team, mainly because I don't think they're bold enough to amke a move like that just yet.

Killdeer
February 20th, 2007, 04:23 PM
You'd expect her to have a bigger role as leader of the city. I really don't think she will be in command, especially since the chosen response to her and Weir's command structure was, she'll have a support role.

Actually the "support role" comment was part of what convinced me that she will indeed be in command. Hammond and Landry on SG1 played similar "support" roles, as in, the main story didn't usually revolve around them. I think that TPTB are just trying to avoid coming right out and saying that they are replacing TH with AT, so they're talking around it.

I'm not a fan of Carter being in command, and I've been hoping all along that maybe I was jumping to conclusions, maybe she would be in a different position, etc. But to me the articles are pretty clear, and as much as I would like to, I don't think I can continue living in denial. :( But hey, feel free to convince me.... I would love to be convinced otherwise! <grin>

Note: Nothing disparaging of anyone's opinions or command preferences meant by anything said in this post! :D

Uber
February 20th, 2007, 04:24 PM
If that's the case then I still can't possibly see why carter would be chosen above anyone else. I acn see the IOA putting Woolsey in command of Atlantis above Carter, not that I'd like that but it would be more realistic. they don't like her that much.I saw no evidence post The Scourge that they dislike her...and frankly BECAUSE of the events in The Scourge, they probably adore her.

Further, if they're militarizing the city...which is the basis of the conclusions I'm drawing...putting Woolsey, a bureaucrat and a civilian, doesn't make much sense. I think Carter's the most obvious choice for her experience and skills.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 04:27 PM
I saw no evidence post The Scourge that they dislike her...and frankly BECAUSE of the events in The Scourge, they probably adore her.

Further, if they're militarizing the city...which is the basis of the conclusions I'm drawing...putting Woolsey, a bureaucrat and a civilian, doesn't make much sense. I think Carter's the most obvious choice for her experience and skills.

I didn't say they disliked her, I said I didn't think they liked her that much. And, I can't possibly see why they would militarize Atlantis, because even if Carter was in command, it wouldn't necessarily militarize Atlantis. And even if Atlantis was militarized, Carter doesn't carry the same type of military presence that someone like Everett, Caldwell, or Ellis carries.

Uber
February 20th, 2007, 04:30 PM
I for one don't think she'll be in command because, leadership skills or not, she still isn't as skilled in negotiating as someone like Weir or Daniel. And with that new race, I imagine the leader would have to do some negotiating. and I don't remember ever thinking she'd be on Sheppard's team, mainly because I don't think they're bold enough to amke a move like that just yet.Well as I've answered several times previously, my guess is that just like in The Return 1, if they needed negotiators and diplomats, they can bring them in from earth...so I'm not worried about her having to fill that role, even though she has had to serve in that capacity in the past.

As for her being on Shep's team...I see that as never happening. First, she's done her time filling that spot. Second, she has more time in grade than Shep. Third, McKay already handles what she does on SG-1. Having her as a part of that team would be superfluous.

Look...I know some people hate this...but I think it's pretty clear that THE position that's most likely opening up is that of leadership. Weir is leaving or is having a lessened role on the show. This much is a fact. Does this mean she's getting killed off? I hope not but I have no idea. But...I think it's almost obvious that Carter will be filling the role that Weir will more than likely be leaving. In my mind, it's all but a foregone conclusion.

Of course I could be wrong but it's what I see happening. Now it's a matter of how they do it/how well it's executed.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 04:33 PM
The thing I have against it is an SG-1 character (other than Oneill of course) filling that leadership role. The other thing is Carter coming on and, yes, invading the role of an SGA character, because, no matter how you interpret her coming into the leadership role, it will be intruding. And, jsut the fact that she comes on and just takes over. That's not the way to introduce an SG-1 character onto the show.

Uber
February 20th, 2007, 04:35 PM
I didn't say they disliked her, I said I didn't think they liked her that much. That's parsing words. I think after The Scourge, they really appreciate her and her contributions, even though she's not one to kiss up to bureaucrats...because she gets the job done.
And, I can't possibly see why they would militarize Atlantis, Given the events in the last few seasons, especially late season 3, I see it happening quite easily. Woolsey hinted quite strongly awhile back that, although the IOA don't WANT to militarize the command, it may become a necessity. I think that time has come.
because even if Carter was in command, it wouldn't necessarily militarize Atlantis. Not sure how you got there. Carter's an Air Force officer...ie, military.
And even if Atlantis was militarized, Carter doesn't carry the same type of military presence that someone like Everett, Caldwell, or Ellis carries.I think she'd be promoted to full bird. She has a commanding presence...but she's also a thinker. Unlike Everett, Ellis and Caldwell, she'd be more prone to give a problem some thought before opting to rush toward the trigger. She'd go gung-ho if she had to...but she's wise and knows to stop and think first before opting for the heavy artillery.

Uber
February 20th, 2007, 04:39 PM
The thing I have against it is an SG-1 character (other than Oneill of course) filling that leadership role. The other thing is Carter coming on and, yes, invading the role of an SGA character, because, no matter how you interpret her coming into the leadership role, it will be intruding. And, jsut the fact that she comes on and just takes over. That's not the way to introduce an SG-1 character onto the show.It would be intruding to you. I don't see it that way. I love SG-1 and Atlantis. To me, this is a logical progression of thought. I figure, if they're militarizing the city and they have to put someone in that role, why not someone who's already established? They don't have to waste time forging her backstory and can move faster with the storytelling.

And like I said before, if her presence tightens the storytelling and adds something to the dynamic, then why does it matter if she's originally from the parent show? If it's good, it's good. If it sucks...well, we'll find out when it happens.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 04:41 PM
That's parsing words. I think after The Scourge, they really appreciate her and her contributions, even though she's not one to kiss up to bureaucrats...because she gets the job done.Given the events in the last few seasons, especially late season 3, I see it happening quite easily. Woolsey hinted quite strongly awhile back that, although the IOA don't WANT to militarize the command, it may become a necessity. I think that time has come.Not sure how you got there. Carter's an Air Force officer...ie, military.I think she'd be promoted to full bird. She has a commanding presence...but she's also a thinker. Unlike Everett, Ellis and Caldwell, she'd be more prone to give a problem some thought before opting to rush toward the trigger. She'd go gung-ho if she had to...but she's wise and knows to stop and think first before opting for the heavy artillery.

Yes, she's got a commanding presence, but no where on the level of colonels such as the ones listed above. And I think this would be reasonable, given Carter's second-in-command position for almost 10 years. And I would think militarize would mean more that just the leader. Even if she's leader there'd still be more scientists and doctors than military. Militarize means more military, including military scientists. and, I like both shows too. doesn't mean I'm ok with something if my favorite actor/characters apart of it. And I'm not looking at it from tptb's point of view. I'm looking at it from a realistic, in-show view.

nowvoyager908
February 20th, 2007, 05:11 PM
It would be intruding to you. I don't see it that way. I love SG-1 and Atlantis. To me, this is a logical progression of thought. I figure, if they're militarizing the city and they have to put someone in that role, why not someone who's already established? They don't have to waste time forging her backstory and can move faster with the storytelling.

And like I said before, if her presence tightens the storytelling and adds something to the dynamic, then why does it matter if she's originally from the parent show? If it's good, it's good. If it sucks...well, we'll find out when it happens.


I understand your thinking. However, many of us wouldn't consider it a logical progression because we don't watch both shows. Personally, I couldn't care less about SG1, parent show or not, or Carter. I watched SGA in spite of my lack of interest in SG1.

If TPTB are going to populate SGA with SG1 cast then why did they bother creating a different show in the first place. Send the damn SG1 cast to Atlantis from the get go. Maybe with a new direction, SG1 would have lived beyond 10 seasons. I would never have know the difference. But, instead they create a separate show with a separate cast that many of us care about and don't see as disposable. IMHO, Weir is not replaceable and Carter does not belong on SGA.

The move may make SG1 fans happy, but I think many other fans will just become angry and alienated.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 05:18 PM
It would be intruding to you. I don't see it that way. I love SG-1 and Atlantis. To me, this is a logical progression of thought. I figure, if they're militarizing the city and they have to put someone in that role, why not someone who's already established? They don't have to waste time forging her backstory and can move faster with the storytelling.

And like I said before, if her presence tightens the storytelling and adds something to the dynamic, then why does it matter if she's originally from the parent show? If it's good, it's good. If it sucks...well, we'll find out when it happens.

Well, no its not a logical progression of thought, because, unlike Oneill, carter is not in any position to be leading atlantis. Hammond would be leading, not her.

Cameron Mitchel
February 20th, 2007, 05:18 PM
I understand your thinking. However, many of us wouldn't consider it a logical progression because we don't watch both shows. Personally, I couldn't care less about SG1, parent show or not, or Carter. I watched SGA in spite of my lack of interest in SG1.

If TPTB are going to populate SGA with SG1 cast then why did they bother creating a different show in the first place. Send the damn SG1 cast to Atlantis from the get go. Maybe with a new direction, SG1 would have lived beyond 10 seasons. I would never have know the difference. But, instead they create a separate show with a separate cast that many of us care about and don't see as disposable. IMHO, Weir is not replaceable and Carter does not belong on SGA.

The move may make SG1 fans happy, but I think many other fans will just become angry and alienated.
It won't make me happy cuz I'm equally SG1 and SGA fan. I'm not biased more toward one show over the other. That's why I'm against it. Even though my favorite character is an SG-1 character, I'm still against the move.

nowvoyager908
February 20th, 2007, 05:35 PM
It won't make me happy cuz I'm equally SG1 and SGA fan. I'm not biased more toward one show over the other. That's why I'm against it. Even though my favorite character is an SG-1 character, I'm still against the move.

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't automatically assume that all SG1 fans would be more accepting of the changes. Its just that most of the positive comments I've read seem to come from fans who already know Carter. Didn't mean to lump everyone together.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 05:41 PM
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't automatically assume that all SG1 fans would be more accepting of the changes. Its just that most of the positive comments I've read seem to come from fans who already know Carter. Didn't mean to lump everyone together.

well I'm primarily an SGA fan but I still think Carter coming over is unnecessary and a leadership role is unrealistic and therefore unwise.

the dancer of spaz
February 20th, 2007, 05:42 PM
I think she'd be promoted to full bird. She has a commanding presence...but she's also a thinker. Unlike Everett, Ellis and Caldwell, she'd be more prone to give a problem some thought before opting to rush toward the trigger. She'd go gung-ho if she had to...but she's wise and knows to stop and think first before opting for the heavy artillery.

I agree. And I think they're going to need to show her handling those situations well (just as you described) right from the beginning, so that there's little doubt in the viewers' minds that she can handle the position.

They just need to find that balance to establish her credibility amongst both the RL Atlantis fans and the fictitious Atlantis crew. It's definitely a thin line, but I think they can totally pull it off, if they handle it with care.

I never predicted that she'd be promoted and put in Liz's spot (and I'm not saying that's true now), but I've always thought that she would be the perfect candidate to sort of mediate between Atlantis' needs and the IOA's demands, while still helping the military gain tighter reins on the expedition. Her background in science will make her sympathetic to what Atlantis' goals are, but her history with various bad guys will make her aware of the ongoing threats. That's where I think the "support" will come in.

Now all they have to do is show that, without suggesting that she's without flaws. :cool: They have a tendency to go overboard with their characters sometimes...

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 05:44 PM
I agree. And I think they're going to need to show her handling those situations well (just as you described) right from the beginning, so that there's little doubt in the viewers' minds that she can handle the position.

They just need to find that balance to establish her credibility amongst both the RL Atlantis fans and the fictitious Atlantis crew. It's definitely a thin line, but I think they can totally pull it off, if they handle it with care.

Yes, those are my concerns. I honestly don't think they will actually show her fully handling all of those aspects. As well, nothing will change my mind as to why she should be chosen among everyone else who's qualified.

the dancer of spaz
February 20th, 2007, 05:56 PM
Yes, those are my concerns. I honestly don't think they will actually show her fully handling all of those aspects. As well, nothing will change my mind as to why she should be chosen among everyone else who's qualified.

Well, if we're being honest here, there are obvious real life reasons why Sam was chosen to cross over at all. However, if you pretend like those don't exist, and focus solely on the fictitious world (which is separate from real life production decisions), Carter is a logical pick if they're trying to find someone who:

a.) is familiar with basic gate operations and protocol from a military standpoint,
b.) is familiar with the necessary technology
and
c.) has an extensive history with gate travel and all that it entails

Call it perfect, call it unrealistic. But 10 years' worth of canon shows us that Sam has all of these traits. Notice how I didn't say anything about her being a good or strong leader, or anything that's subjective. I'm talking from a basic, factual perspective. If they're looking for someone who is familiar with those three concentrations, Carter is that person.

That's not to say that she doesn't have a lot to learn. I look forward to seeing her lead these people confidently, while learning something new along the way. I just worry that any attempt on the writers' part to give her further depth - by having her question her own actions once or twice - will be twisted. So, as much as I'd like to see that dual-bit of confidence and self-doubt, I know it'll only backfire.

It happened to Weir, and it's certainly happened to Carter already.

For some reason, when men lead groups of people, and they question themselves, it's understandably human; when women are leading, and they question themselves, it's further proof that they don't belong at the helm. And, I suppose, that's no one's fault but the viewers'.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 20th, 2007, 06:04 PM
Well, if we're being honest here, there are obvious real life reasons why Sam was chosen to cross over at all. However, if you pretend like those don't exist, and focus solely on the fictitious world (which is separate from real life production decisions), Carter is a logical pick if they're trying to find someone who:

a.) is familiar with basic gate operations and protocol from a military standpoint,
b.) is familiar with the necessary technology
and
c.) has an extensive history with gate travel and all that it entails
Call it perfect, call it unrealistic. But 10 years' worth of canon shows us that Sam has all of these traits. Notice how I didn't say anything about her being a good or strong leader, or anything that's subjective. I'm talking from a basic, factual perspective. If they're looking for someone who is familiar with those three concentrations, Carter is that person.

That's not to say that she doesn't have a lot to learn. I look forward to seeing her lead these people confidently. I just worry that any attempt on the writers' part to give her further depth, by questioning her actions once or twice, will be twisted.

a.)is familiar with basic gate operations and protocol from a military standpoint,
b.) is familiar with the necessary technology
and
c.) has an extensive history with gate travel and all that it entails

Rule out the second one because Mckay has just as much knowledge of the necessary technology and Carter isn't needed in that area. The first one could work, except for the fact that if they really cared about that then Oneill or hammond would be recommended. Also, you failed to mention why her all-around skills make her qualified for being LEADER. You only justified her being added to the expedition. And, as for me ignoring the factual real life reasons: once you get past the real life reasons, you still have to deal with the fictitious reasons or else its bad writing. and I worry that she'll come across as flawless.

Agent_Dark
February 20th, 2007, 06:24 PM
a.)is familiar with basic gate operations and protocol from a military standpoint,
b.) is familiar with the necessary technology
and
c.) has an extensive history with gate travel and all that it entails

Rule out the second one because Mckay has just as much knowledge of the necessary technology and Carter isn't needed in that area. The first one could work, except for the fact that if they really cared about that then Oneill or hammond would be recommended. Also, you failed to mention why her all-around skills make her qualified for being LEADER. You only justified her being added to the expedition. And, as for me ignoring the factual real life reasons: once you get past the real life reasons, you still have to deal with the fictitious reasons or else its bad writing. and I worry that she'll come across as flawless.

Err, someone who has all-round skills make the best leaders since they know what everything entails. Ever heard the expression "as a leader, do every job at least once so you know how it works" or something like that? And Hammond isn't going to be recommended - he's retired. And O'Neill already has a job that's higher up in the chain than Atlantis anyway.

Here's a question: can anyone tell me where it was shown that Weir was qualified to lead the Atlantis expedition or even the SGC?

Night Spring
February 20th, 2007, 08:00 PM
For some reason, when men lead groups of people, and they question themselves, it's understandably human; when women are leading, and they question themselves, it's further proof that they don't belong at the helm. And, I suppose, that's no one's fault but the viewers'.
Is it though? In Zero Hour, both O'Neill and Carter doubted their abilities to handle their new positions. By the end of the episode, I was convinced, along with O'Neill, that he can indeed handle his new responsibilities, because I actually saw him handling them. With Carter, otoh, we ended up being *told* that she handled herself admirably out in the field when her team came under fire, but we didn't actually see her do that. No, Carter, along with the viewer, had to be told by O'Neill that she handled herself admirably. This viewer, for one, was not as convinced of Carter's leadership skills as of O'Neill's.

So while I do think there could be a bias toward seeing women questioning themselves as a sign of weakness more readily than with men, I think there are ways to write around that so as to lessen the chances that self-questioning is perceived as a weakness. And I think Stargate has consistently failed its female characters in this respect, and I think if Carter does take command of Atlantis, chances are that this time next year we'd be arguing over her purported shortcomings in command abilities, just as we are for Weir now.

kinzeb
February 20th, 2007, 08:36 PM
Could Carter replace Weir?

Sure, the <snip> can do anything thing they like. (this has been proven)

Should Carter replace Weir?

IMO, no.

atlantisnewbie06
February 20th, 2007, 08:49 PM
:daniel09: ok 2 things....

1) IMMMMMMMMMM BBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCKKKKKK!!!!!! i know it seems like nobody cares (which is alright cause u hardly notice me at all to start w.) lol jk. yea i've poked in and out of the forum just 2 look around and see the teh_pretty pix that all a ya'll post and i gotta say its C.R.A.Z.Y!!! ok nuff said.....on 2 the second thang.....

.....2) my opinion on this little fiasco is that its not peaches and creme, if u all catch my drift. i dunno why this re-casting thing is even occuring cause no one can replace weir...unless something could happen and its necessary

Daniel Jackson
February 20th, 2007, 09:15 PM
Dude, it's just a TV show, calm down! :eek:

atlantisnewbie06
February 21st, 2007, 04:35 AM
Dude, it's just a TV show, calm down! :eek:

i know. i was just showing the fact that as much as i love Sam, i dont think she could make any difference or make any better decisions than Weir can.

im sorry if i seemed obsessed or overly excited, but it was late and i wasnt thinking straight (or so i say)

Ltcolshepjumper
February 21st, 2007, 05:30 AM
Err, someone who has all-round skills make the best leaders since they know what everything entails. Ever heard the expression "as a leader, do every job at least once so you know how it works" or something like that? And Hammond isn't going to be recommended - he's retired. And O'Neill already has a job that's higher up in the chain than Atlantis anyway.

Here's a question: can anyone tell me where it was shown that Weir was qualified to lead the Atlantis expedition or even the SGC?

But still, why Atlantis? And when did that expression ever come into play in SG-1? Obviously O'neill didn't require the scientific skill to run the SGC or Hammond or Landry because they had people they trusted working under them. Why should it be different with Carter? The leader doesn't have to know how to do everything. And Weir was given command of Atlantis because she was the best civilian candidate for the role, and she learned ancient before she left. Sounds pretty qualified to lead a group of the world's best and brightest. And really, they were all entering a new galaxy so non one really knew much about the PG. Now, they do and Carter's coming over with the knowledge of what she's read from mission reports, that's it. And once again, I ask, give me ONE instance in where Carter has been SHOWN leading a group of at least 100 people and making decisions that if made wrong could endanger the lives of everyone under her. Has she every been in that situation on screen? Because I can't take it when they just say she has and fail to show it. And I will stress this once again, Carter is a field commander by nature. Her character is the type to DO stuff, not sit around and type up reports. Which is why she should definitely be on SG-1. I have a bad feeling that Season Four is not going to be so good. Why? Tptb haven't fully developed the existing cast and yet they want her over there and will try to develop her? And Atlantis should be its own show, not needing SG-1. And there is no way SGA can be own its own with an SG-1 character as leader of the city. And recommending Oneill and Hammond doesn't mean I'd want them as leader. And, hammond is still a presidential advisor so he could easily come over as a civilian leader with a military background in LEADING a base.

carterrocks
February 21st, 2007, 07:55 AM
I sure hope Sam takes ova from Weir...because i wuv sam:)

Ltcolshepjumper
February 21st, 2007, 08:02 AM
How do these 'fans' understand sga if they havent seen sg1? And sorry to break it but most sga fans ARE sga fans because of SG1, without SG1 atlantis would have been nothing and Carter would make a great replacement for Weir....Actually im an eccentric carter/amandatapping fan so sorry if my view is a bit one sided.:sam:

I am both an SG-1 and an SGA fan. I do not favor one over the other. It does not however, cause me to think that every crossover will be great. And just because SG-1 helped to lead SGA and may have helped it in its infancy, it does not mean that its ok for SGA to continue to cling to SG-1 for support. If that's the case then they might as well cancel SGA now. Because a true show needs to be able to stand on its own. That's a fact. If SGA can't successfully break away from SG-1 then the franchise is over. Because if Scifi felt that they needed to cancel SG-1 ( it was more than just cost) then would they really want SGA to be littered with SG-1? And its that type of one-sidedness that I don't like. Carter shouldn't just take over just because TPTB like her more than Weir. That's like saying they should transform SGA into SG-1 just because they ( and you) like it better.

Cameron Mitchel
February 21st, 2007, 08:47 AM
I sure hope Sam takes ova from Weir...because i wuv sam:)
Well we know that's the only reason that you Carter fans want her on the show... it has nothing to do with your made up justifications for her presence on SGA. You just want to see her everytime you turn to Stargate.

Skydiver
February 21st, 2007, 09:43 AM
and how is that different from any other fan that enjoys seeing thier favored character/actor????

We don't even now for sure if carter is going to replace weir. who knows how they're gonna handle it. For all we know, someone else gets command of the city adn sam is just there, popping in now and then. What if that new ship commander dude gets handed the city and sam gets his ship? What if she's made his XO and he has command of the city and she has command of the ship and she answers to him?

Uber
February 21st, 2007, 10:07 AM
Well we know that's the only reason that you Carter fans want her on the show... it has nothing to do with your made up justifications for her presence on SGA. You just want to see her everytime you turn to Stargate.Presumptuous much?

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 11:47 AM
I didn't say they disliked her, I said I didn't think they liked her that much. And, I can't possibly see why they would militarize Atlantis, because even if Carter was in command, it wouldn't necessarily militarize Atlantis. And even if Atlantis was militarized, Carter doesn't carry the same type of military presence that someone like Everett, Caldwell, or Ellis carries.

Given that a lot of the people working on Atlantis are civilians, from countries other than the US or both, I could see the US military having trouble getting the international committee to agree to somebody like Everett or Caldwell taking command.

Given Sam's background both as a scientist and as part of the SGC, I could see her being a more acceptable choice if Atlantis is to be militarized.

jenks
February 21st, 2007, 11:53 AM
Well we know that's the only reason that you Carter fans want her on the show... it has nothing to do with your made up justifications for her presence on SGA. You just want to see her everytime you turn to Stargate.

So? It's a good a reason as any...

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 11:56 AM
Err, someone who has all-round skills make the best leaders since they know what everything entails. Ever heard the expression "as a leader, do every job at least once so you know how it works" or something like that? And Hammond isn't going to be recommended - he's retired. And O'Neill already has a job that's higher up in the chain than Atlantis anyway.

Here's a question: can anyone tell me where it was shown that Weir was qualified to lead the Atlantis expedition or even the SGC?

With Atlantis, given that there are representatives from various countries involved, with military and civilian personnel, politics will play a big part in the choice of leader.

Weir was known and respected internationally because of her work as a negotiator.

Agent_Dark
February 21st, 2007, 12:11 PM
Weir was known and respected internationally because of her work as a negotiator.

Yes! But not actually because she was some leet pwnage leader. Her previous experience was in diplomacy, not leadership...

jenks
February 21st, 2007, 12:18 PM
Agreed.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 12:36 PM
Yes! But not actually because she was some leet pwnage leader. Her previous experience was in diplomacy, not leadership...

Pretty much. Without knowing who the other candidates were - if there were any - we can't know whether or not Weir was the best person for the job, however chances are that she was the most acceptable choice.

Night Spring
February 21st, 2007, 12:49 PM
Yes! But not actually because she was some leet pwnage leader. Her previous experience was in diplomacy, not leadership...
Uh, leadership is such a broad term that applies to a broad range of careers/situations. You can get experience in leadership being a police officer, teacher, doctor, politician, lawyer, scientist, military, parent, and yes, diplomat! In Lost City, the President hand-picked Weir to run the SGC. If she can run the SGC, she can run Atlantis. Whether or not Weir's leadership skills have been portrayed convincingly or not is another question, but the setup of her character was that she did have the skills to run a complex operation such as SGC or Atlantis, or at the least, that the President believed she had such skills.

jenks
February 21st, 2007, 01:04 PM
Weir is not qualified to lead a military base, she's demonstrated this numerous times, it's been made clear in the show the only reason she gets these positions is because of how politically acceptable she is...

Celcool
February 21st, 2007, 01:09 PM
It's amazing to me how much time you spend in Weir threads since it's obvious you hate her. :P You sure like to discuss her.

By the way I'm not implying that you shouldn't, just observing.

jenks
February 21st, 2007, 01:26 PM
It's amazing to me how much time you spend in Weir threads since it's obvious you hate her. :P You sure like to discuss her.

By the way I'm not implying that you shouldn't, just observing.

There's only so far you can go with praise, criticism is what keeps discussions going... besides, almost all the threads in this forum seem to be in some way about Weir or the cast changes...

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 01:43 PM
Joe didn't want to answer it. He's leaving a lot open to interpretation. But given the state of affairs on the show, I think that it's almost a foregone conclusion that Carter will take over Weir's position, which she'll be forced to vacate because of either political reasons or she's unable to return for OTHER reasons.
just like Torri is being "forced to vacate" her role on atlantis to most liekly make room for amanda.


well I'm primarily an SGA fan but I still think Carter coming over is unnecessary and a leadership role is unrealistic and therefore unwise.
same here. we dont need her, we've got weir for command of atlantis, weve got shep for military and weve got mckay/zelenka for science, and we also have cauldwell and ellis as ship commanders...so i really still fail to see the point in her being there.
based on what i saw of her "leadership" on sg1...i can say im not overly optimistic that she will do a good job if she takes over. anyway that will make her the boss and surely that means shep also gets pushed out his command position too? nooo.
ill be hoping we get her (if she takes over) sending off our team and welcoming them back and that being all...not so much fastforwarding then. then again they wont bring over carter in too small a role will they otherwise the Sam fans will complain that shses being underused.


Weir is not qualified to lead a military base, she's demonstrated this numerous times, it's been made clear in the show the only reason she gets these positions is because of how politically acceptable she is...
its not just a military base though, its a civillian expedition foremost (or at least its supposed to be). she defers to shep in any case where it needs a military eye but other than that, she imo qualified.


you know im really looking forward to season 4....except sam coming over...not looking forward to that at all, and if she is replacing weir i just think thats such a crappy way to treat weir/torri for the 3 years shes done on her show to be cast aside for sam who had 10 years on her own show.

all my opinion of course.

Uber
February 21st, 2007, 02:02 PM
just like Torri is being "forced to vacate" her role on atlantis to most liekly make room for amanda. So you know this for a fact, do you?

If TPTB are putting Carter in command of the city, do you truly believe that had they not decided on moving Carter over that they'd keep Weir there? The fact is, we don't know what's happening behind the scenes. We don't know if there's political stuff going on with TPTB and Torri, or whether they don't know what to do with her character, or if Torri wanted to leave the show to pursue other things....or what. We just don't know.

TPTB chose to exercise their rights on Amanda's contract and are moving her over to SGA. As I don't know the how's and why's...as we don't have all the facts on this issue...it seems pretty dangerous to come to a conclusion as to what truly is motivating TPTB here.

Perhaps they don't think Weir works as a character and were considering getting rid of her regardless of what they did with Carter. If that's the case, then it wouldn't matter who they brought over or didn't bring over. And while they might use a storyline to bring someone else in to take her place, the result would be the same. Weir would still be reduced/leaving. Not to make room for another character but because that's what TPTB want.

But again...I don't know. I can only hope that the story is good and that the team and show benefit from her presence.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 02:39 PM
anyway that will make her the boss and surely that means shep also gets pushed out his command position too? nooo. .

I doubt that Sheppard will be removed from command of his team - if she is to command Atlantis, it is unlikely that Sam will be taking part in any offworld missions.

The only change I see it making in his role is that he would no longer be taking charge during military situations; as Sam is a military officer herself, there would be no need. However if Atlantis is militarized it is probable that he will be second in command of the expedition officially.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 02:40 PM
So you know this for a fact, do you?

No, as i said everything in that post was My Opinion.
you said it yourself, carter replacing weir seems to be a foregone conclusion and unfortuntately it does seem as though theyre leaning towards that. Carter replacing Weir means Amanda replacing Torri...i dont care what reasons they have for getting rid of her (if thats the case but it certainly seems likely) or even having carter take over weir and her being demoted to..whatever... i still say it sucks that weir/torri is being pushed aside for carter/amanda, even though amanda had 10 years on her show.
The talk of them getting rid of weir only seemed to come around after they told us, unfortunately, that they would be exercising their right to use amanda/sam in sga. If they were planning of getting rid of weir, why bother continuing to develop her character this season (TRW, Return part 1, Submersion, Echoes etc) why not have her fade more into the background and then come up with an arc before First strike so it made more sense when/if she steps down/gets sent back to earth/gets killed off/whatever. you dont go from being horrified in TRW that atlantis didnt exist and completely depressed in the Return and unable to move on to "oh i may have to step down" in first strike. tptb have always supported the character of weir and yet as soon as carter comes over they decide to bump her to recurring which will probably mean she will eventually be gone permenantly.
you know id Rather have atlantis taken over by some nobody to Sam, ive never liked her character and i hate the thought of her in charge.
when it came out that she would be on her own ship, i could just about handle that but her in charge of atlantis completely takes the proverbial biscuit! not taking over/stepping on anyones toes?? doesnt seem that way to me.

my wait and see attitude about season 4 extends to carter but at this moment in time i just resent the character because i dont want to see her and i dont like her, never have and doubtful i ever will, especially if she barges in and takes over weir's command.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 02:43 PM
I doubt that Sheppard will be removed from command of his team - if she is to command Atlantis, it is unlikely that Sam will be taking part in any offworld missions.

The only change I see it making in his role is that he would no longer be taking charge during military situations; as Sam is a military officer herself, there would be no need. However if Atlantis is militarized it is probable that he will be second in command of the expedition officially.
no thats not what i meant, i know that she wont take over from shep on his team (thank god), i mean that if she is in charge of atlantis, as the boss then that means surely she is in charge of everyone including the military, just as Weir is Shep's boss now.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 02:46 PM
no thats not what i meant, i know that she wont take over from shep on his team (thank god), i mean that if she is in charge of atlantis, as the boss then that means surely she is in charge of everyone including the military, just as Weir is Shep's boss now.

Naturally, if Sam is in command of Atlantis, she would be in command of Sheppard but he would retain his command position on his team.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 03:00 PM
Naturally, if Sam is in command of Atlantis, she would be in command of Sheppard but he would retain his command position on his team.
but thats not good enough. shep in charge of his team, yeh great but loosing his CO postion....Sucks!

So Sam comes in and pushes weir out her command job and then also pushes sheppy out of his job as Commanding officer too?? again i say so much for not stepping on anyones toes!
Its not fair, sheppy has been CO for 3 years now and has done a good job, but because sammy is coming over he gets pushed out of his command job too.

I really really really hope Carter isnt put in charge now, i resent the character already, if she comes in and takes over from weir AND shep as co, im just going to hate her even more, if thats even possible at this stage.

Killdeer
February 21st, 2007, 03:04 PM
The only change I see it making in his role is that he would no longer be taking charge during military situations;

See, that's one of the things I'm having the hardest time swallowing about this whole thing. I liked Sheppard in command, and I don't want him answering to anyone else. I want Sheppard to stay military commander of Atlantis! Anything else feels like a demotion. I know he's always kind of been a reluctant leader, but that's one of the reasons I like him.

Maybe they'll downplay that aspect, have him play O'Neill to Carter's Hammond, but still, Carter being military means she has the right to give him orders in military situations, and Weir didn't. As far as I was concerned, it was an ideal setup. Weir led during normal operations, and Shep could take a lesser role. But when push came to shove, he could take over, and with Carter in command, he can't. I'm sorry-I'm just having a hard time with that.

I know there are probably many who disagree with what I've said here, and that's ok. Guess I just wanted to say that. Backing away to my corner now. :o BTW, is it just me, or is Gateworld really slow today?

Agent_Dark
February 21st, 2007, 03:09 PM
Uh, leadership is such a broad term that applies to a broad range of careers/situations. You can get experience in leadership being a police officer, teacher, doctor, politician, lawyer, scientist, military, parent, and yes, diplomat! In Lost City, the President hand-picked Weir to run the SGC. If she can run the SGC, she can run Atlantis. Whether or not Weir's leadership skills have been portrayed convincingly or not is another question, but the setup of her character was that she did have the skills to run a complex operation such as SGC or Atlantis, or at the least, that the President believed she had such skills.

There was nothing explicitly said at all about Weir's ability to lead an operation like the SGC or Atlantis. Everything that was talked up about Weir was her good diplomacy/negotiation skills (ironically something we rarely see at all in Atlantis...). Now obviously, by extension, the President hand picking her to run the SGC would indicate she could handle it.

But that argument somehow doesn't apply to Carter? If she's picked to be the leader of Atlantis for whatever reasons, then obviously someone high up (Pentagon or IOA probably) believe that she has the skills to command Atlantis. You can't just change the rules for different characters, because its the same arguement for both lol

Now don't get me wrong here, I don't really have an opinion on who should Atlantis either way. If it means good television I'm happy. There is no-one that is able to say either whether it will be good or not because the episodes haven't even been filmed yet, much less seen by anyone. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here ;)

Killdeer
February 21st, 2007, 03:14 PM
but thats not good enough. shep in charge of his team, yeh great but loosing his CO postion....Sucks!

So Sam comes in and pushes weir out her command job and then also pushes sheppy out of his job as Commanding officer too?? again i say so much for not stepping on anyones toes!
Its not fair, sheppy has been CO for 3 years now and has done a good job, but because sammy is coming over he gets pushed out of his command job too.

I really really really hope Carter isnt put in charge now, i resent the character already, if she comes in and takes over from weir AND shep as co, im just going to hate her even more, if thats even possible at this stage.

Kind of what I was saying-I didn't see you were posting also. You're right, Sheppard has been CO for 3 years now and IMO done a awesome job. If Carter does take over command, I think it looks like a vote of no-confidence not only to Weir but to Sheppard as well. Maybe some of you think it's called for-I don't know. But to me, when the writers went to all the trouble to establish him as CO and keep him there for three years, it really feels like a demotion, as I said in my earlier post. And I don't think Shep deserves that. Just my opinion.

Agent_Dark
February 21st, 2007, 03:15 PM
Maybe they'll downplay that aspect, have him play O'Neill to Carter's Hammond, but still, Carter being military means she has the right to give him orders in military situations, and Weir didn't. As far as I was concerned, it was an ideal setup. Weir led during normal operations, and Shep could take a lesser role. But when push came to shove, he could take over, and with Carter in command, he can't. I'm sorry-I'm just having a hard time with that.

Let's run with the idea that this will actually happen (this is all unfounded speculation btw, but lets just pretend for a minute). Isn't that what will make for good TV? Atlantis is supposed to be the 'darker', 'edgier' and 'more character focused' counterpart to SG-1. Maintaining the status quo isn't going to give you that... Seeing how the characters react to these changes is what will give you that.

In my completely personal opinion, it sounds like people want Atlantis to be this different show to SG-1, yet don't want their happy little Atlantis world to be disrupted by anything. They contradict each other. SG-1 went unchanged for 5 years, minor change (in effect) for a year, back to the status quo for another year, minor change again (in effect) for a year, then a relatively radical change for the last 2. Do you really want Atlantis to become a SG-1 clone?

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 03:17 PM
See, that's one of the things I'm having the hardest time swallowing about this whole thing. I liked Sheppard in command, and I don't want him answering to anyone else. I want Sheppard to stay military commander of Atlantis! Anything else feels like a demotion. I know he's always kind of been a reluctant leader, but that's one of the reasons I like him.

Maybe they'll downplay that aspect, have him play O'Neill to Carter's Hammond, but still, Carter being military means she has the right to give him orders in military situations, and Weir didn't. As far as I was concerned, it was an ideal setup. Weir led during normal operations, and Shep could take a lesser role. But when push came to shove, he could take over, and with Carter in command, he can't. I'm sorry-I'm just having a hard time with that.

I know there are probably many who disagree with what I've said here, and that's ok. Guess I just wanted to say that. Backing away to my corner now. :o BTW, is it just me, or is Gateworld really slow today?
no i agree with you completely...i think those of us who dont want sam in charge are loosing a fighting battle in here (especially against any exclusive sam fans who think she will be good in ANY postition in atlantis-yes im aware that some people are fans of weir and sam)...but then that is the point of a forum, to debate and discuss.

I think foisting shep out of his CO position and Weir out of her command position is just wrong (indeed a demotion to both characters), and if TPTB are seriously considering that, then i have to say im really disappointed. they told us (and amanda did), that Sam wouldnt be coming in and taking over and stepping on anyones toes...and yet this is exactly what she will be doing if they put her in charge.
oh and hey she also takes over Mckays job as head scientist too, surely, since she would be in charge of everything in the city. so thats 3 people out of a command position.

i know this is all specualation, but this thread is called could carter replace weir (which negates replacing shep as co and mckay possibly too) so thats what we're discussing.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 03:19 PM
but thats not good enough. shep in charge of his team, yeh great but loosing his CO postion....Sucks!

So Sam comes in and pushes weir out her command job and then also pushes sheppy out of his job as Commanding officer too?? again i say so much for not stepping on anyones toes!
Its not fair, sheppy has been CO for 3 years now and has done a good job, but because sammy is coming over he gets pushed out of his command job too.

I really really really hope Carter isnt put in charge now, i resent the character already, if she comes in and takes over from weir AND shep as co, im just going to hate her even more, if thats even possible at this stage.

That's something that could make for some excellent drama next season. Even if Sheppard doesn't want to lead the expedition - I don't see him wanting to leave his team to take over the day to day running of the base - there would still be changes for him to adapt to and for her part, Sam has no experience with the Wraith so they would both have to adjust - along with everyone else on Atlantis.

Sam being put in command of the Atlantis expedition wouldn't just affect her, it gives all of the characters a chance for conflict and development.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 03:31 PM
Kind of what I was saying-I didn't see you were posting also. You're right, Sheppard has been CO for 3 years now and IMO done a awesome job. If Carter does take over command, I think it looks like a vote of no-confidence not only to Weir but to Sheppard as well. Maybe some of you think it's called for-I don't know. But to me, when the writers went to all the trouble to establish him as CO and keep him there for three years, it really feels like a demotion, as I said in my earlier post. And I don't think Shep deserves that. Just my opinion.

We don't know whether or not Sam will be taking command of Atlantis, let alone what the circumstances will be.

Whether Weir is removed from command because Atlantis is being militarized, or for another reason, unless Sheppard was give up his place on his team, somebody else would have to be brought in to lead the expedition. If that person was a military officer, he or she would have to be either of higher rank than Sheppard or, at the very least, to have more time in grade than he does.

In that situation, they do not need a separate military commander. While it may seem as though Sheppard is losing part of his role, it is not being taken away from him because he did a bad job or because he isn't trusted. If the new commander is a military officer, then there is simply no need for Sheppard to have to take over during military situations.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 03:34 PM
Let's run with the idea that this will actually happen (this is all unfounded speculation btw, but lets just pretend for a minute). Isn't that what will make for good TV? Atlantis is supposed to be the 'darker', 'edgier' and 'more character focused' counterpart to SG-1. Maintaining the status quo isn't going to give you that... Seeing how the characters react to these changes is what will give you that.

In my completely personal opinion, it sounds like people want Atlantis to be this different show to SG-1, yet don't want their happy little Atlantis world to be disrupted by anything. They contradict each other. SG-1 went unchanged for 5 years, minor change (in effect) for a year, back to the status quo for another year, minor change again (in effect) for a year, then a relatively radical change for the last 2. Do you really want Atlantis to become a SG-1 clone?
isnt that what theyre doing by bringing in carter (oh and tealc for a guest spot too)? trying to keep sg1 alive in some way by adding an-IMO-unneeded character.
I do want atlantis to be a seperate show from sg1 but im finding it extremely difficult to do that with the addition of carter next season, and all the other sg1 characters that have popped up/will be popping up.
They can do dark edgy episodes without adding carter, theyve managed it before...CG, TRW, Vengeance, Michael....all the characters in sga have their darker sides and can be morally dubious at times which makes them interesting. how exactly would carter who can do no wrong make it more edgier?darker? the characters interact fine with each other, we dont need carter.

like i said, fighting a loosing battle.

Regan: i dont want shep to run the base, i think he should remain as CO, and i hope-although doubt- weir is just going to have more of a hammond type role but with better screen time usage.

i dont want loads of conflict and the character development again has been fine without adding carter into the mix.
Anyway atlantis doesnt build on arcs like that, there would be one episode with a bit of conflict from everyone before it was back to Carter is in charge, deal with it.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 03:35 PM
oh and hey she also takes over Mckays job as head scientist too, surely, since she would be in charge of everything in the city. so thats 3 people out of a command position.

I really doubt that Sam would have anywhere near enough time on her hands to run the science department if she was also running a city. I could see her helping out occasionally, but not as a fulltime job.

By this logic, Weir, as the current leader of Atlantis, is also head scientist - so Sam can't take the position away from McKay if it's not actually his to begin with.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 03:46 PM
I really doubt that Sam would have anywhere near enough time on her hands to run the science department if she was also running a city. I could see her helping out occasionally, but not as a fulltime job.

By this logic, Weir, as the current leader of Atlantis, is also head scientist - so Sam can't take the position away from McKay if it's not actually his to begin with.
well theyve told us they love the mckay/sam banter (although i think its old now) so she will be getting plenty of time with him either way, no doubt. she'll probs come up with the ideas to save the day now or something.

she may not take over from mckay (although JM did say carter would be taking the load off mckay technobabble wise-even though that was supposed to be zelenkas job) but she would still take over from weir and shep, which is still just not on IMO.

Merlin7
February 21st, 2007, 03:52 PM
We don't know whether or not Sam will be taking command of Atlantis, let alone what the circumstances will be.

Whether Weir is removed from command because Atlantis is being militarized, or for another reason, unless Sheppard was give up his place on his team, somebody else would have to be brought in to lead the expedition. If that person was a military officer, he or she would have to be either of higher rank than Sheppard or, at the very least, to have more time in grade than he does.

In that situation, they do not need a separate military commander. While it may seem as though Sheppard is losing part of his role, it is not being taken away from him because he did a bad job or because he isn't trusted. If the new commander is a military officer, then there is simply no need for Sheppard to have to take over during military situations.


I have to say I disagree with this. IF Sam comes and takes over for Weir, then that's what she should do. Take over Weir's job. Not Shep's. Shep understands the Wraith and the other Pegasus/Atlantis problems. Sam doesn't have that experience. Shep should and could easily remain the head of the military on Atlantis. Sam would have her hands full with the administrative aspect of running Atlantis, as Weir did. Weir still made the final decisions on Shep's decisions throughout Atlantis. He'd give her input, and yes...oft times just do things, but for the most part, he still had to *technically* get her okay.

I don't want Sam in Atlantis period. I don't like the character and stopped watching SG-1 in season one because of her. But she's coming so I'll deal. Amanda I like. She had great chemistry with Joe in those commercials before Atlantis started. If they tone down the Rodney/Sam stuff and do more with Shep and Carter and them running Atlantis, I could live with the scenario.

I actually don't see Carter coming over, and even being in charge of Atlantis, as a threat to Sheppard. After what he's done, I can see O'Neill making sure he didn't lose his position. Shep has earned his place a million times over and I can't see anyone taking it away from him. If anything, it could play out that Carter and Sheppard make an excellent team. I think she would understand where he is coming from better than anyone on a bunch of levels.

So despite the fact I don't want Carter on Atlantis, the one thing I don't see her as is a threat to Shep and his position.

At least, until tptb prove me wrong. Which, they probably will.

prion
February 21st, 2007, 03:58 PM
What I'd liek to see in season 4....

Shep and his team (McKay, Ronon, Teyla) all going out to get into trouble
Weir still in charge
Zelenka and Lorne still the backup to McKay and Shep, respectively
Carter (sigh) supporting but NOT in charge of anything.
No more Asurans
No Ori
No Goa'uld
NO villains from the Milky Way galaxy

But can Carter replace Weir? No. She doesn't have the skill set for that. Carter is science (Weir's not a scientist like McKay remember). Heck, why not let McKay run the base? I figure 20 minutes into the episode we could see a riot starting ... ;)

Agent_Dark
February 21st, 2007, 03:58 PM
isnt that what theyre doing by bringing in carter (oh and tealc for a guest spot too)? trying to keep sg1 alive in some way by adding an-IMO-unneeded character.
I do want atlantis to be a seperate show from sg1 but im finding it extremely difficult to do that with the addition of carter next season, and all the other sg1 characters that have popped up/will be popping up.
They can do dark edgy episodes without adding carter, theyve managed it before...CG, TRW, Vengeance, Michael....all the characters in sga have their darker sides and can be morally dubious at times which makes them interesting. how exactly would carter who can do no wrong make it more edgier?darker? the characters interact fine with each other, we dont need carter.

like i said, fighting a loosing battle.


Your examples I don't feel are relevant, since they followed the SG1 format of having everything tidied up for the main characters at the end of the episode. ie Shep had his life restored instead of staying old, Weir didn't suffer any effects from the nanites taking over her body, Teyla was rescued before any harm came to her in Micheal etc. I'm talking about actual changes to the characters that are going to last over consecutive episodes in an extended arc. Stargate (neither SG1 nor Atlantis) doesn't do that and the problem is that Atlantis has started to fall into the same pattern as SG1 because of that. That's why its becoming an SG-1 clone.

Let's pretend SG1 had never existed and that Carter was just another guest character like Caldwell or Ellis and that everything else was the same.
Now Carter comes in and there is some very different changes. There is conflict among characters because this previously unknown character is 'pushing' aside others. That's pretty much what Everrit, Caldwell, Woolsey and Ellis have done before. The character development comes from how the regular characters interact with these perceived (in both the character's and the audience's minds) 'bad guys'.

Now lets stop pretending that SG1 had never existed and realise that Carter does have quite a history on SG1. She is actually a good guy (in both the character's and, biases aside, the audience's mind). Now the character development can from the interaction and conflict amongst the good guys themselves. That's something that Battlestar Galactica does really well and what makes it such an awesome show. Unfortunately its pretty much non-existent on Stargate. Atlantis has had some brief moments, but they are forgotten fairly quickly. Having this conflict among the good guys would be an excellent way to easily distinguish it from SG1 and stop it from falling into the same patterns.
I should point out that I'm not going to expect the writers to live up to my standards there ;) They never will and have never done so in the past. Atlantis and SG1 have always been quite mediocre in their character developments so I'm not expecting much. But it's great to explore in discussions and fanfic etc which is how I currently enjoy the Stargates anyway so no real drama there.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 04:02 PM
I have to say I disagree with this. IF Sam comes and takes over for Weir, then that's what she should do. Take over Weir's job. Not Shep's. Shep understands the Wraith and the other Pegasus/Atlantis problems. Sam doesn't have that experience. Shep should and could easily remain the head of the military on Atlantis. Sam would have her hands full with the administrative aspect of running Atlantis, as Weir did. Weir still made the final decisions on Shep's decisions throughout Atlantis. He'd give her input, and yes...oft times just do things, but for the most part, he still had to *technically* get her okay.

Is that actually possible? For a military officer to take command of a base but to be obliged to step back during a military situation? I can understand why Sheppard takes command during military situations when Weir is in charge but could they justify it in Sam's case? She and Sheppard have the same rank - though it's very possible that Sam will be promoted if she is to command Atlantis - and Sam has more time in grade.

Unofficially, I could see Sam getting a lot of input from Sheppard - he knows the Wraith, the people on Atlantis and the Pegasus galaxy better than she does - but I don't understand how it could be official policy that he take charge during military situations when she is also a military officer.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 04:03 PM
I have to say I disagree with this. IF Sam comes and takes over for Weir, then that's what she should do. Take over Weir's job. Not Shep's.
i agree.
taking over weir is one thing (and still crappy) but it would really take the biscuit if she took shep's command job too...hes earned it and IMO has always been way better at commanding anyone compared to carter who ive always thought does a very poor job.

Merlin7
February 21st, 2007, 04:07 PM
Is that actually possible? For a military officer to take command of a base but to be obliged to step back during a military situation? I can understand why Sheppard takes command during military situations when Weir is in charge but could they justify it in Sam's case? She and Sheppard have the same rank - though it's very possible that Sam will be promoted if she is to command Atlantis - and Sam has more time in grade.

Unofficially, I could see Sam getting a lot of input from Sheppard - he knows the Wraith, the people on Atlantis and the Pegasus galaxy better than she does - but I don't understand how it could be official policy that he take charge during military situations when she is also a military officer.

Why not? I imagine she could easily put in charge with the stipulations that Sheppard keeps his standing as head of military and that Carter would be willing to use his input. She worked with O'Neill. She knows his way of thinking outside the box works. As would Sheppards. I really don't see it being a problem. If only because, Sci Fi show. They can do anything they want. And will.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 04:11 PM
Let's pretend SG1 had never existed and that Carter was just another guest character like Caldwell or Ellis and that everything else was the same.
Now Carter comes in and there is some very different changes. There is conflict among characters because this previously unknown character is 'pushing' aside others. That's pretty much what Everrit, Caldwell, Woolsey and Ellis have done before. The character development comes from how the regular characters interact with these perceived (in both the character's and the audience's minds) 'bad guys'.

Now lets stop pretending that SG1 had never existed and realise that Carter does have quite a history on SG1. She is actually a good guy (in both the character's and, biases aside, the audience's mind). Now the character development can from the interaction and conflict amongst the good guys themselves. That's something that Battlestar Galactica does really well and what makes it such an awesome show. Unfortunately its pretty much non-existent on Stargate. Atlantis has had some brief moments, but they are forgotten fairly quickly. Having this conflict among the good guys would be an excellent way to easily distinguish it from SG1 and stop it from falling into the same patterns.

That would have a lot of potential as a storyline. A new character coming in and taking over from Weir would cause conflict but if that character was somebody the other Atlantis characters already knew and respected, it adds another layer. They're loyal to Weir and are sorry (and angry, depending on the circumstances) to see her go but at the same time, their opinion of Sam is high. Some people will miss Weir's style of leadership but maybe others will prefer Sam's style - perhaps feeling a tad guilty about that.

Sam would be in a new environment, with new challenges to adjust to, so there's scope for character development with her too.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 04:11 PM
Your examples I don't feel are relevant, since they followed the SG1 format of having everything tidied up for the main characters at the end of the episode. ie Shep had his life restored instead of staying old, Weir didn't suffer any effects from the nanites taking over her body, Teyla was rescued before any harm came to her in Micheal etc. I'm talking about actual changes to the characters that are going to last over consecutive episodes in an extended arc. Stargate (neither SG1 nor Atlantis) doesn't do that and the problem is that Atlantis has started to fall into the same pattern as SG1 because of that. That's why its becoming an SG-1 clone.

Let's pretend SG1 had never existed and that Carter was just another guest character like Caldwell or Ellis and that everything else was the same.
Now Carter comes in and there is some very different changes. There is conflict among characters because this previously unknown character is 'pushing' aside others. That's pretty much what Everrit, Caldwell, Woolsey and Ellis have done before. The character development comes from how the regular characters interact with these perceived (in both the character's and the audience's minds) 'bad guys'.

Now lets stop pretending that SG1 had never existed and realise that Carter does have quite a history on SG1. She is actually a good guy (in both the character's and, biases aside, the audience's mind). Now the character development can from the interaction and conflict amongst the good guys themselves. That's something that Battlestar Galactica does really well and what makes it such an awesome show. Unfortunately its pretty much non-existent on Stargate. Atlantis has had some brief moments, but they are forgotten fairly quickly. Having this conflict among the good guys would be an excellent way to easily distinguish it from SG1 and stop it from falling into the same patterns.
I should point out that I'm not going to expect the writers to live up to my standards there ;) They never will and have never done so in the past. Atlantis and SG1 have always been quite mediocre in their character developments so I'm not expecting much. But it's great to explore in discussions and fanfic etc which is how I currently enjoy the Stargates anyway so no real drama there.
but carter IS an established character on her show, with 10 years of development.
again, how would having carter over on atlantis bring a great conflicvt, that you yourself say they probs wont do because they dont do long character arcs like that. what one good episode where they are conflicted and then buisness as usual next ep.
still doesnt work...and i dont want too much conflict between these characters because they are a family and i want them to work together, not against each other, the occasional disagreement is fine but thinking back to sg1 when they put more conflict between oneill and daniel in season 5 didnt work, and in fact it was just the start of my low tolerance of jack.
i want to see the interactions between the atlantis characters, not with sam.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 04:16 PM
Why not? I imagine she could easily put in charge with the stipulations that Sheppard keeps his standing as head of military and that Carter would be willing to use his input. She worked with O'Neill. She knows his way of thinking outside the box works. As would Sheppards. I really don't see it being a problem. If only because, Sci Fi show. They can do anything they want. And will.
i think that would be better (well as you know id rather not have sam at all but since im stuck with her;)) have shep keep his command and sam can run everything else.


i dont want sam to be developed anymore, conflict or no conflict, shes had her time on sg1, this time is needed for the other atlantis characters to develop but looks like they will have to share a lot of screen time with sam, especially if she is in charge.

Agent_Dark
February 21st, 2007, 04:18 PM
but carter IS an established character on her show, with 10 years of development.
again, how would having carter over on atlantis bring a great conflicvt, that you yourself say they probs wont do because they dont do long character arcs like that.
They don't do much character development as it is, so its a moot point really... But the point was that instead of having some previously unkown character for the conflict we can have one we already know is a good guy. That takes the conflict to another level.


still doesnt work...and i dont want too much conflict between these characters because they are a family and i want them to work together, not against each other, the occasional disagreement is fine but thinking back to sg1 when they put more conflict between oneill and daniel in season 5 didnt work, and in fact it was just the start of my low tolerance of jack.
But then you're just plodding along with the same old. The status quo. You're just doing exactly what SG1 has done for 10 years. The only differences in Atlantis then are cosmetic ones.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 04:22 PM
Why not? I imagine she could easily put in charge with the stipulations that Sheppard keeps his standing as head of military and that Carter would be willing to use his input. She worked with O'Neill. She knows his way of thinking outside the box works. As would Sheppards. I really don't see it being a problem. If only because, Sci Fi show. They can do anything they want. And will.

I could see an agreement, spoken or unspoken, between Sam and Sheppard that she will get his input. I don't see that being a problem.

It's the official side I'm thinking of. It seems incredibly strange that any officer would be given command of a base like Atlantis but that one of their subordinates would take charge in any military situation. It would be like saying that Landry is in charge of the SGC but during all military situations, Colonel Dixon or somebody will take over.

Practically speaking, I'd say that if Sam does take command of Atlantis, the issue of Sheppard's previous role as military commander will not be dealt with but that, although Sam is officially in charge, she will still get Sheppard's input as far as strategy and such are concerned and he will still lead any defence teams, etc.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 04:26 PM
still doesnt work...and i dont want too much conflict between these characters because they are a family and i want them to work together, not against each other, the occasional disagreement is fine but thinking back to sg1 when they put more conflict between oneill and daniel in season 5 didnt work, and in fact it was just the start of my low tolerance of jack.

I thought that was a good move on TPTB's parts. I thought that it was realistic that there would be conflicts, especially given how different the characters are.

Even the closest families have conflict.

RealmOfX
February 21st, 2007, 04:26 PM
Is that actually possible? For a military officer to take command of a base but to be obliged to step back during a military situation? I can understand why Sheppard takes command during military situations when Weir is in charge but could they justify it in Sam's case? She and Sheppard have the same rank - though it's very possible that Sam will be promoted if she is to command Atlantis - and Sam has more time in grade.

Unofficially, I could see Sam getting a lot of input from Sheppard - he knows the Wraith, the people on Atlantis and the Pegasus galaxy better than she does - but I don't understand how it could be official policy that he take charge during military situations when she is also a military officer.

Is it possible - No. The military doesn't work like that.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 04:28 PM
Is it possible - No. The military doesn't work like that.

Thanks. It seemed strange.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 04:30 PM
They don't do much character development as it is, so its a moot point really... But the point was that instead of having some previously unkown character for the conflict we can have one we already know is a good guy. That takes the conflict to another level.


But then you're just plodding along with the same old. The status quo. You're just doing exactly what SG1 has done for 10 years. The only differences in Atlantis then are cosmetic ones.
i like plodding ;) it works for me, like i say the occasional conflict is great but not as a constant theme. i like the fact that the atlantis crew get on with each other, yeh like on sg1, atlantis has always felt more like they were a family so its fine that they generally get on.

you may think its an sg1 clone but for me the only way it becomes an sg1 clone is bringing in anything to with sg1....like carter unfortunately.

id rather have an unknown causing problems, its never for long anyway-like i said i dont like carter, shes too perfect for sga, shes already an established character whos had 10 years, shes probably going to take over from weir (and torri) which is unfair and shep's job as co is probs on the line too. its not good enough for me.

Merlin7
February 21st, 2007, 04:32 PM
Is it possible - No. The military doesn't work like that.

Ah..but that's the military in the REAL WORLD. Not the Sci World of SGA. They can do whatever they want, and with SGA they usually do. Whether it's realistic or not.

So for the show, I don't think having Sam in Weir's place and Shep still in charge in his place is a stretch.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 04:38 PM
I thought that was a good move on TPTB's parts. I thought that it was realistic that there would be conflicts, especially given how different the characters are.

Even the closest families have conflict.
yeh but in season 5 it seemed like a constant conflict in every episode (they did have other conflicts in otehr seasons but only in a few eps), it just pained me to see two characters who were so close and great friends constantly fighting, in fact jack seemed to not care about daniel at all, the episode Menace comes to mind. The constant conflict tore them apart and made me want to stop watching because i used to like it when they actually got on, talked through problems etc. i stayed with it for a few more years but even when daniel was back it was never the same eventuially it was all the sam episodes that turned me away in the end. granted sam isnt friends with any of them, except mckay-sort of- but even then the conflict would still get old after a while, i dont want a constant conflict, its too damaging.. we get enough conflict with the bad guys i dont want to witness it on atlantis all the time either.

i dont want that with atlantis.

ReganX
February 21st, 2007, 04:38 PM
Ah..but that's the military in the REAL WORLD. Not the Sci World of SGA. They can do whatever they want, and with SGA they usually do. Whether it's realistic or not.

So for the show, I don't think having Sam in Weir's place and Shep still in charge in his place is a stretch.

Don't they still have an Air Force advisor? I doubt that TPTB will want to risk another co-command mess after the reaction to Sam being removed from command to accomodate Mitchell.

Chances are, if Sam is in command, Sheppard's role as military commander during Weir's time in charge will not be referred to at all but even if he doesn't have the title or the authority to countermand Sam's orders, he'll still be doing pretty much the same job.

RealmOfX
February 21st, 2007, 04:41 PM
Ah..but that's the military in the REAL WORLD. Not the Sci World of SGA. They can do whatever they want, and with SGA they usually do. Whether it's realistic or not.

So for the show, I don't think having Sam in Weir's place and Shep still in charge in his place is a stretch.

Well you may think that ridiculous situation is OK but a lot of people wouldn't.

Unfortunately for you they (TPTB) do try to keep the military side relatively life like. Whilst they do have good ole Shep being both the CO AND leading a specialised team (big joke) I sincerely doubt that the'd compound that already ridiculous situation with letting Shep override his CO :rolleyes:

But hey like you said it is TV and if they do that we'll just have to add it to the list of ridiculous things that they get all their characters to do at some point or other.

Agent_Dark
February 21st, 2007, 04:42 PM
i like plodding ;) it works for me, like i say the occasional conflict is great but not as a constant theme. i like the fact that the atlantis crew get on with each other, yeh like on sg1, atlantis has always felt more like they were a family so its fine that they generally get on.
you may think its an sg1 clone but for me the only way it becomes an sg1 clone is bringing in anything to with sg1....like carter unfortunately.

You've obviously invested alot of time in certain characters on Atlantis. Which is cool, but you have to take a step back and look at the shows in their basics forms. There is next to no difference between SG1 and Atlantis in that regard. Sure the characters have different names and faces and the bad guys look different (sometimes ;)), the shows are pretty much the same. The average Joe Blogg isn't going to find much differences between them because there isn't.

This isn't a family picnic to the park - they're fighting life sucking vampires in another galaxy. Let there be conflict I say.


id rather have an unknown causing problems, its never for long anyway-like i said i dont like carter, shes too perfect for sga, shes already an established character whos had 10 years, shes probably going to take over from weir (and torri) which is unfair and shep's job as co is probs on the line too. its not good enough for me.
We've already had the unknowns - Caldwell, Ellis, Woolsey etc. Do you really want another? Carter brings something different that hasn't really been done before.

Rootortoise
February 21st, 2007, 04:44 PM
Ah..but that's the military in the REAL WORLD. Not the Sci World of SGA. They can do whatever they want, and with SGA they usually do. Whether it's realistic or not.

So for the show, I don't think having Sam in Weir's place and Shep still in charge in his place is a stretch.
if they were so het up about it being accurate all the time, shep wouldve cut his hair long ago (NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!). Oh and didnt they give cam some sort of medal that was beyond the suspension of belief for him or something...i have been keeping up with sg1 though i dont watch it anymore and i remember reading it in the anti season 10 thread i think it was.

nowvoyager908
February 21st, 2007, 05:36 PM
dp

vaberella
February 21st, 2007, 06:08 PM
To say some of the above you don't watch CSI Miami, two weeks ago they almost killed Delko, and have killed and or got rid of extremely popular characters. I've been watching every single season. It's a good thing Miami is the most watched, it's like a 45 music video, or that's the reason I watch. :D But it has changed it's line-up quite a bit...and thrown a few characters who you'd think be around out the window.

And I doubt CSI TPTB listens to fans, if I remember correctly for CSI the original show...There is a mass group who shipped Grissom/Willows (a massive group). While the show moved towards Grissom/Sidle (which was a couple I preferred). So they weren't listening too much to the fans, if the loud fans for Grissom/Willows are taken into consideration.

So TPTB of most shows do what they want and just have you watch, if you like or don't like. Roswell was a show that was run by the fans, hence the reason it only lasted...3 seasons or some non-sense like that. This was almost the fate of TPTB for Dawson's Creek---they reach empasse's when they listen to fans. But if they go with the flow and just write great stories, then they still have viewers and pull in more.
VB

nowvoyager908
February 21st, 2007, 06:32 PM
To say some of the above you don't watch CSI Miami, two weeks ago they almost killed Delko, and have killed and or got rid of extremely popular characters. I've been watching every single season. It's a good thing Miami is the most watched, it's like a 45 music video, or that's the reason I watch. :D But it has changed it's line-up quite a bit...and thrown a few characters who you'd think be around out the window.

And I doubt CSI TPTB listens to fans, if I remember correctly for CSI the original show...There is a mass group who shipped Grissom/Willows (a massive group). While the show moved towards Grissom/Sidle (which was a couple I preferred). So they weren't listening too much to the fans, if the loud fans for Grissom/Willows are taken into consideration.

So TPTB of most shows do what they want and just have you watch, if you like or don't like. Roswell was a show that was run by the fans, hence the reason it only lasted...3 seasons or some non-sense like that. This was almost the fate of TPTB for Dawson's Creek---they reach empasse's when they listen to fans. But if they go with the flow and just write great stories, then they still have viewers and pull in more.
VB


Actually, if I remember correctly the only regular who was killed on Miami, was Speed (Rory Cochrane) and he wanted out. They also had Callie's cop BF commit suicide, but he was recurring and in less than a handful of episodes. Sure, any woman who gets close to Horatio is dead meat (Marisol?), but I don't consider them regular cast.

As far as Grillows is concerned, I always thought GSR was the larger and more vocal group, but that's open to interpretation depending on which ship you prefer. I always thought more people preferred Catherine with Warrick.

I was just trying to point out that the CSI's, all produced by the same team, have remained separate, but equal, which is something I think the SG people could take a cue from when messing with SGA.

vaberella
February 21st, 2007, 06:44 PM
Actually, if I remember correctly the only regular who was killed on Miami, was Speed (Rory Cochrane) and he wanted out. They also had Callie's cop BF commit suicide, but he was recurring and in less than a handful of episodes. Sure, any woman who gets close to Horatio is dead meat (Marisol?), but I don't consider them regular cast.

As far as Grillows is concerned, I always thought GSR was the larger and more vocal group, but that's open to interpretation depending on which ship you prefer. I always thought more people preferred Catherine with Warrick.

I was just trying to point out that the CSI's, all produced by the same team, have remained separate, but equal, which is something I think the SG people could take a cue from when messing with SGA.

I should have quoted the post I was responding to...always defeats the purpose to respond and post just disappears.

I wonder how Yelina Salas (Sofia Milos) is so easily forgotten, she is Horatio's sister-in-law and lasted around 3 or so seasons. Yelina was close to Horatio and far from dead meat. Actually that ship had a crazy following.

I didn't ship CSI too much, I just preferred Grissom/Sidle, and I found the grissom/willow fans agressively fanatical, much like a few other ships.

I find that SGA is independent of SG1, as you say people guest star and interlapping shows. But since we're looking about how PG can directly affect Earth, I can see how SG1 peopel would travel to PG and deal with SGA people. We're not talking about a random serial killer. We're talking about hundreds of serial killers, and mainly directly affected by SGA actions. There needs to be interaction---unless of course Atlantis is randomly lost in space or planet and the SG1 people have no clue where.

So all in all I can see why TPTB is doing the messing around. I just worry about scenes between Carter and McKay, but that could be unfounded and they have no scenes; or little to no interaction.

Night Spring
February 21st, 2007, 06:51 PM
But if they go with the flow and just write great stories, then they still have viewers and pull in more.
Ah, that's the great "if" isn't it? Yeah, I agree, if they write great stories, they'll get viewers, no matter what. But frankly, even the best Stargate episodes never reached the levels of knock-your-socks-off amazing. SG-1 always relied more on the charm of its characters than solid story lines, and Atlantis has continued that trend. If I hear that the writing team of CSI or BSG are taking over and writing Atlantis next season, then yes, I'd sit up and take notice, and wait until I see what they do before I go moaning and grumbling about the cast changes. But I already know what the TPTB of Stargate are capable of, and with no new writers joining them for S4, I know that the chances of them handling all the cast changes in a way that is satisfying to me is rather slim.

Thing is, when I first heard rumors about Beckett being written out of the show, I thought surely the TPTB would never get rid of such a popular character. Then I heard rumors about Weir being written off, and I thought surely TPTB would never get rid of their top female lead. Then I heard rumors that Carter would be joining Atlantis, and I thought surely TPTB would have the sense to keep the number of her episodes to something below half the season. So far they've done everything I thought they'd surely never do. So now I'm thinking surely they wouldn't be idiotic enough to give Carter command of Atlantis, effectively displacing both Weir and Sheppard, and potentially sidelining McKay as well, but then, since they've already done everything else I thought they'd never do, well...

Obviously TPTB think very differently than I do. Add in that neither SG1 nor Atlantis have impressed me with the overall quality of their writing in the last two years. Truthfully, the only reason I'm still here, talking about this, is because of David Hewlett. If not for him, I'd have been out of here and never looked behind after I saw First Strike.

Killdeer
February 21st, 2007, 06:57 PM
Let's run with the idea that this will actually happen (this is all unfounded speculation btw, but lets just pretend for a minute).

First of all, I hope nothing I say in this post will be taken as a attack or offensive. I hope that we can debate this in good terms. :D That said, while I agree that this is speculation, I would put forth that "unfounded" is a matter of perspective. This entire thread is based on the speculation that Carter might replace Weir, and how people feel about it. It might happen. It might not. The writers only know, and they're not telling. They are, however, dropping hints, and while I might interpret them as a decent foundation for my speculations that Carter is replacing Weir, I understand that you might not. That's ok. I'm just pointing out that I think my speculations have some basis at this stage, but I do understand that it is just speculation.


Atlantis is supposed to be the 'darker', 'edgier' and 'more character focused' counterpart to SG-1. Maintaining the status quo isn't going to give you that... Seeing how the characters react to these changes is what will give you that.

ITA. It's just that in 10 years of Stargate, neither show to this point has done a good job of showing that reaction. If that changes, I'll be one of the first to cheer. The shake-up at the beginning of Season 9 would have been an ideal time to develop some of this conflict, but they chose not to go that route.


In my completely personal opinion, it sounds like people want Atlantis to be this different show to SG-1, yet don't want their happy little Atlantis world to be disrupted by anything. They contradict each other. SG-1 went unchanged for 5 years, minor change (in effect) for a year, back to the status quo for another year, minor change again (in effect) for a year, then a relatively radical change for the last 2. Do you really want Atlantis to become a SG-1 clone?

No, I don't, and I agree with one of your later posts (sorry, newbie here, don't know how to do quotes from multiple posts yet) that in many ways the shows are similar. If I believed that the changes would taking the show in the direction you describe, I wouldn't be near as perturbed as I am. However, I suppose I see the changes as only bringing Atlantis closer to the SG1 model instead of taking it further away. It seems to me that the only changes are taking away what made Atlantis different. Military instead of civilian commander – check. Gate team travel oriented instead of Atlantis/base oriented – check. Female instead of male doctor – check. (ok, that last one was tongue in cheek, but hey :) )

I think there's a lot of different reasons that Atlantis fans are upset (the ones who are upset anyway), and I doubt for most of them, it's simply because it'll be different. Some are upset about who is leaving, some are upset about who is coming, some are upset about the direction the show is taking, and some are upset for none, some, or all of the above reasons. :D The point is, I am not against change just because it's change. I've thought that the so-called "soft reset" and the possible new direction for Season four opened up a world of exciting options. I was jumping-up-and-down excited about SG1's changes for Seasons 9 & 10. (Looking back now, it was some good/some not so much). There's just this one thing I've been having a hard time with. And I understand if you don't agree. But it's not just because it's changing.

One other thing, and I'm already afraid this post has gone way off topic. :( But you mentioned BSG in one of your posts. While Stargate could certainly learn from them, I personally hope they never take the show to that level. There’s a reason that I stopped watching BSG a season and a half in. While I agree that it’s a superbly written show, and I enjoyed the characters, I simply couldn’t handle the continual angst fest, and its not the first show I’ve dropped for overangst (is that a word?) One of the reasons I’ve enjoyed both Stargates over the years is the moments of fun interspersed with the drama, and the team/family aspect. You can have good writing, good character development, even conflict, and still have a close team family. Just look at NCIS, another of my favorite shows. (one of my own personal fantasies has Don Bellisario taking over as EP of Stargate. Of course, he would probably want to make Sheppard a marine, but you can’t have everything. <grin>).

On that note of insanity I will go away! :o I hope we're still friends - well, at least not enemies - I mean, you don't really know me, so how could you be my friend..... Ooops. Sorry, had a Rodney moment there! :D Bye now!

vaberella
February 21st, 2007, 06:58 PM
There are some quotes running around where JM clearly states that Carter will not play such an important role to deflect attention from the team (paraphrasing). And since I have yet to see S4, we have no idea how good or bad it's going to be. So TPTB could be having gold nuggets right now rather than turds. So the if, yes is an if. But we have no clue either way, so I'm standing by TPTB.

Killdeer
February 21st, 2007, 07:09 PM
Thing is, when I first heard rumors about Beckett being written out of the show, I thought surely the TPTB would never get rid of such a popular character. Then I heard rumors about Weir being written off, and I thought surely TPTB would never get rid of their top female lead. Then I heard rumors that Carter would be joining Atlantis, and I thought surely TPTB would have the sense to keep the number of her episodes to something below half the season. So far they've done everything I thought they'd surely never do. So now I'm thinking surely they wouldn't be idiotic enough to give Carter command of Atlantis, effectively displacing both Weir and Sheppard, and potentially sidelining McKay as well, but then, since they've already done everything else I thought they'd never do, well...

<laughing> I'm so with you here...that's pretty much exactly the progression I went through. My optimism is somewhat damaged at this point. <grin>

Agent_Dark
February 21st, 2007, 07:24 PM
First of all, I hope nothing I say in this post will be taken as a attack or offensive. I hope that we can debate this in good terms. :D
lol, no offense taken at all.


That said, while I agree that this is speculation, I would put forth that "unfounded" is a matter of perspective. This entire thread is based on the speculation that Carter might replace Weir, and how people feel about it. It might happen. It might not. The writers only know, and they're not telling. They are, however, dropping hints, and while I might interpret them as a decent foundation for my speculations that Carter is replacing Weir, I understand that you might not. That's ok. I'm just pointing out that I think my speculations have some basis at this stage, but I do understand that it is just speculation.
Maybe unfounded is not quite the word I was looking for, but you have to agree that there is basically **** all hard evidence that Carter is going to take over command. Of course, evidence is overrated in this day and age anyway. Saddam is still hiding those WMD's after all ;)


ITA. It's just that in 10 years of Stargate, neither show to this point has done a good job of showing that reaction. If that changes, I'll be one of the first to cheer. The shake-up at the beginning of Season 9 would have been an ideal time to develop some of this conflict, but they chose not to go that route.
Yes, it would have been an excellent opportunity but I can kinda see why they didn't go for that on SG1. It did last 8 years on the formula it used after all, so why attempt to shake things up? However....


I agree with one of your later posts (sorry, newbie here, don't know how to do quotes from multiple posts yet) that in many ways the shows are similar. If I believed that the changes would taking the show in the direction you describe, I wouldn't be near as perturbed as I am. However, I suppose I see the changes as only bringing Atlantis closer to the SG1 model instead of taking it further away. It seems to me that the only changes are taking away what made Atlantis different. Military instead of civilian commander – check. Gate team travel oriented instead of Atlantis/base oriented – check. Female instead of male doctor – check. (ok, that last one was tongue in cheek, but hey :) )

I don't really think Atlantis has an excuse for being different on the surface only. It's meant to be the new shiny, but it's not really new or shiny at all. Well the CGI is shiny I suppose.


One other thing, and I'm already afraid this post has gone way off topic. :( But you mentioned BSG in one of your posts. While Stargate could certainly learn from them, I personally hope they never take the show to that level. There’s a reason that I stopped watching BSG a season and a half in. While I agree that it’s a superbly written show, and I enjoyed the characters, I simply couldn’t handle the continual angst fest, and its not the first show I’ve dropped for overangst (is that a word?) One of the reasons I’ve enjoyed both Stargates over the years is the moments of fun interspersed with the drama, and the team/family aspect. You can have good writing, good character development, even conflict, and still have a close team family. Just look at NCIS, another of my favorite shows. (one of my own personal fantasies has Don Bellisario taking over as EP of Stargate. Of course, he would probably want to make Sheppard a marine, but you can’t have everything. <grin>).
Well I don't actually watch NCIS so I can't use it as an example ;) But I know what you mean. Firefly is another good example. But at the end of the day they all manage to do what Stargate doesn't - namely character conflict, and development through that conflict, with each other.


On that note of insanity I will go away! :o I hope we're still friends - well, at least not enemies - I mean, you don't really know me, so how could you be my friend..... Ooops. Sorry, had a Rodney moment there! :D Bye now!
Hah dont worry, I'll let you know when you go on my hate list :P

Killdeer
February 21st, 2007, 08:15 PM
Maybe unfounded is not quite the word I was looking for, but you have to agree that there is basically **** all hard evidence that Carter is going to take over command. Of course, evidence is overrated in this day and age anyway. Saddam is still hiding those WMD's after all ;)

Oh, let's not go there <grin>. Ok maybe no "hard evidence" but I think there are "strong indications." :D But maybe we should agree to disagree on this point.


I don't really think Atlantis has an excuse for being different on the surface only. It's meant to be the new shiny, but it's not really new or shiny at all. Well the CGI is shiny I suppose.

Again, I think this is a matter of perspective. No, it's not really new-I'll agree to that. Shiny-well, guess that depends on what, or who, you're looking at ;) . I was a faithful and obsessive SG1 watcher who was seduced over to the Atlantis side just by the characters (or maybe I should say the actors who brought the characters to life). It certainly wasn't the frequent recycled storylines. I'm not saying I don't still love SG1, but the characters of Atlantis were strong enough to make at least this fan switch allegiances. You may think that says uncomplimentary things about me, and probably it does. That's ok. I'm coming to terms with that. <grin>


Well I don't actually watch NCIS so I can't use it as an example ;) But I know what you mean. Firefly is another good example. But at the end of the day they all manage to do what Stargate doesn't - namely character conflict, and development through that conflict, with each other.

Yes, I agree with that. Sadly. I would also say they don't handle choices and consequences that well. Also sadly. But at the end of the day, while I may scream and shout at the TV screen, I'm still watching because I love the characters. Here's to hoping that, at least, doesn't change for Season 4. Oh and yes, Firefly was an awesome show that ended way too soon!


Hah dont worry, I'll let you know when you go on my hate list :P

Oh thank you! That will give me time to run and hide....:D Thanks for being willing to discuss this amicably - I've appreciated it.

Killdeer
February 21st, 2007, 08:50 PM
We don't know whether or not Sam will be taking command of Atlantis, let alone what the circumstances will be.

True enough. I've been discussing this with Agent Dark - see above posts re: speculation. :D I agree we don't know. Whether or not we have basis to draw conclusions is obviously a matter for debate. That said....


While it may seem as though Sheppard is losing part of his role, it is not being taken away from him because he did a bad job or because he isn't trusted. If the new commander is a military officer, then there is simply no need for Sheppard to have to take over during military situations.

I agree that is the rational way to look at it. Probably. Maybe. <pouting face> But the Sheppard fan in me still wants him in charge. Sorry. I'm trying to reason with that part, but not having a lot of luck. ;) It just feels like a demotion. Whether or not it really is, or whether it even works out this way at all....

Please understand I am a somewhat frustrated Stargate fan. I've been an obsessive fan for years, but only within the last few weeks have I gotten the courage up to do more than lurk around the edges of the forums. What I'm trying to say is...this is not just me jumping up and down about any little change. This has been a buildup of frustration, starting back with the first news that SG1 was cancelled. With each successive news bulletin, I was at first dismayed, but then found a way to put a positive spin on it. But each item served to push my optimism lower, and each time, it's been harder to bounce back. I'm sure I will bounce back eventually from this also, it's just going to take some time. I do love Atlantis, and it's going to take a lot to push me away for good.

I've appreciated being part of the discussion on this thread....it's actually helped my optimism to be able to discuss things here. Thanks for putting up with me! Bye now.

Night Spring
February 21st, 2007, 09:18 PM
I agree that is the rational way to look at it. Probably. Maybe. <pouting face> But the Sheppard fan in me still wants him in charge. Sorry. I'm trying to reason with that part, but not having a lot of luck. ;) It just feels like a demotion. Whether or not it really is, or whether it even works out this way at all....
I agree. At the beginning of S2, the military higher-ups wanted to pat Sheppard on the head for a job well done, and send him on his way. It wouldn't have been a demotion, because he was never officially commander of the expedition, but in reality, he had been the de facto commander for a year, and that would have been taken away from him. Then, they even had Landry suggesting that Sheppard not be sent back to Atlantis, because having a former commander serving under a new commanding officer could be awkward. If they stick in Carter as leader of Atlantis now, that would result in the exact situation Landry considered undesirable then.

So it seems the real sticky point for me is not whether Carter can or should replace Weir, but what having her as leader of Atlantis would mean to Sheppard. Although, Ellis' suggestion that Sheppard run Atlantis doesn't sit well with me, either. Personally, I think it'd be gold to have McKay step up and take charge while Weir is down from her injuries, but I think I'd need a ZPM-charged shield to duck the complaints that McKay is already way too over-developed. :D

Celcool
February 21st, 2007, 11:14 PM
There's only so far you can go with praise, criticism is what keeps discussions going... besides, almost all the threads in this forum seem to be in some way about Weir or the cast changes...
Someone from "the other side" says that criticism is actually good. :weiranime33:

the dancer of spaz
February 22nd, 2007, 01:15 AM
I think Elizabeth Weir should remain as a main character (even if she doesn't have command next year), but I think the fact that many people here are saying that their beef isn't with Liz's loss but with John's says that Weir is rather expendable to some people.

She wouldn't be so expendable had the writers given her more to do, I think.

As for Sheppard, I don't understand why people here seem to want him to have it all. They want him to be the CO of the Atlantis base, but they want him to stay the CO of the team, even though it's been established that that's not possible. Whether it's Carter or Ellis or Caldwell, if any military officer comes on board and takes command of the base from Weir, John is going to be that officer's 2IC. It's unavoidable.

I personally don't see Sheppard as one who delegates (then again, I don't necessarily see Sam as that, either), but I see him as someone who belongs in the field.

Linzi
February 22nd, 2007, 03:31 AM
True enough. I've been discussing this with Agent Dark - see above posts re: speculation. :D I agree we don't know. Whether or not we have basis to draw conclusions is obviously a matter for debate. That said....



I agree that is the rational way to look at it. Probably. Maybe. <pouting face> But the Sheppard fan in me still wants him in charge. Sorry. I'm trying to reason with that part, but not having a lot of luck. ;) It just feels like a demotion. Whether or not it really is, or whether it even works out this way at all....

Please understand I am a somewhat frustrated Stargate fan. I've been an obsessive fan for years, but only within the last few weeks have I gotten the courage up to do more than lurk around the edges of the forums. What I'm trying to say is...this is not just me jumping up and down about any little change. This has been a buildup of frustration, starting back with the first news that SG1 was cancelled. With each successive news bulletin, I was at first dismayed, but then found a way to put a positive spin on it. But each item served to push my optimism lower, and each time, it's been harder to bounce back. I'm sure I will bounce back eventually from this also, it's just going to take some time. I do love Atlantis, and it's going to take a lot to push me away for good.

I've appreciated being part of the discussion on this thread....it's actually helped my optimism to be able to discuss things here. Thanks for putting up with me! Bye now.
I totally understand your concerns, as I had them too not so long ago.
I too thought Sam coming to Atlantis would mean less screentime for my favourite characters, a change of dynamics and that her military position could be a threat to my favourite character's role in the show, as well as a potential threat to other characters I love.
Then I saw Amanda's comments, and Joe Mallozzi's and I feel reassured.
I don't know if Sam will replace Elizabeth, maybe she will. I'll tell you what though, all this speculating and debating and hyposthesising has damn well made me want to watch and find out.
At P2 David Hewlett was very surprised that some vocal SGA fans didn't want Sam in Atlantis. His comment amid the booing?
"Awwww, come on! She's only coming in to boss us around a bit!' You can take that comment as you will, I know what I think it meant.
So, I think whatever Sam does she'll be in a position of some authority. As a Sam fan I'd be pleased about that. As a massive Atlantis fan, a bigger one than SG1, though a loyal SG1 fan for 10 years, I have concerns. However, I actually am looking forward to the changes. A change is as good as a rest, comes to mind.
I remember the 'Get in the 'Gate' competition promo vid. Amanda and Joe F were in that and I adored their interaction. I, for one, would like to see that relationship explored, (in a non-shippy way, obviously, as I'm a non shipper as far as Atlantis goes.) I feel pretty excited about the changes personally, and now am actually quite ok that Sam is coming over to my favourite show. Now, how that fits in with Elizabeth...well, I just can't say yet. I do still think it's possible that Carter could replace Weir, and yet something tells me she won't. I really don't know what's going to happen, but I'm looking forward to finding out.

Linzi
February 22nd, 2007, 03:35 AM
I think Elizabeth Weir should remain as a main character (even if she doesn't have command next year), but I think the fact that many people here are saying that their beef isn't with Liz's loss but with John's says that Weir is rather expendable to some people.

She wouldn't be so expendable had the writers given her more to do, I think.

As for Sheppard, I don't understand why people here seem to want him to have it all. They want him to be the CO of the Atlantis base, but they want him to stay the CO of the team, even though it's been established that that's not possible. Whether it's Carter or Ellis or Caldwell, if any military officer comes on board and takes command of the base from Weir, John is going to be that officer's 2IC. It's unavoidable.

I personally don't see Sheppard as one who delegates (then again, I don't necessarily see Sam as that, either), but I see him as someone who belongs in the field.
Blimey, I don't want Sheppard as boss of Atlantis. No way!!!
I want him on his team, which is what will happen. JM has said the team of four will be the main focus in season 4, with the support of others, so no way will Sheppard be in charge on a permanent basis.
No, I actually want a female in charge.

Alipeeps
February 22nd, 2007, 04:31 AM
You've obviously invested alot of time in certain characters on Atlantis. Which is cool, but you have to take a step back and look at the shows in their basics forms. There is next to no difference between SG1 and Atlantis in that regard. Sure the characters have different names and faces and the bad guys look different (sometimes ;)), the shows are pretty much the same. The average Joe Blogg isn't going to find much differences between them because there isn't.


It's obviously your opinion that there is no difference between the shows but other people have their opinions too and they are just as valid (I'm sorry, but I found your comment above a tiny bit condescending.. it seemed to be suggesting that if the person you were replying to took a moment to try and be logical, they would soon see things your way. Perhaps I misinterpreted your intention, in which case I apologise). I personally don't see the shows as particularly similar.. sure they are set in the same universe etc but the basic premises of the shows are quite different - SGA is in different galaxy, whole different situation (infrequent contact with Earth, reliant on supply runs by ship that takes weeks etc - I could liken the situation to SG1 working out of a company's US corporate HQ with all the facilities to hand and SGA being the company's recent acquisition in Delhi with a staff sent out to set up the subsidiary company but having to some extent find their own way in a different culture and without the instant access to things that would be easily available at the HQ), civilian-led operation, different enemies, different tone etc etc. For all these reasons - and, importantly, because of the characters involved - I much prefer SGA to SG1. I enjoy SG1 and watch it.. but I am a fan of SGA. And speaking of the characters, your suggestion above appears to be that the names and faces are different but the characters essentially the same? I don't see that either.. sure, I guess the roles can be considered to be vaguely the same in that we have a soldier and a scientist and a native warrior etc.. but even in that respect there are intrinsic differences.. the scientist on SGA is not also a soldier, the civilian on the team is not a linguist and historian, only one of the SGA team is Earth military etc. The team dynamic is different and the relationships are different.



We've already had the unknowns - Caldwell, Ellis, Woolsey etc. Do you really want another? Carter brings something different that hasn't really been done before.

I'm interested to know what you thinkg Carter brings that's different? To my mind, as a soldier coming to Atlantis her function would be no different than that of any other soldier coming to Atlantis. As a scientist, she offers no different dynamic than any other scientist - other than, I grant you, a previous relationship with McKay that in the past has done his character little credit and which seems to cause him to lose all the character development he had gone through in SGA since his original incarnation on SG1. The only thing I see that is different in Sam coming to Atlantis is the presupposed knowledge of her history with SGC - to, for example, a viewer who is not interested in SG1 and has not watched it but watches SGA (and there are those viewers out there) how is Sam bringing anything new to SGA that any random new Lt Col wouldn't?


No, I don't, and I agree with one of your later posts (sorry, newbie here, don't know how to do quotes from multiple posts yet) that in many ways the shows are similar. If I believed that the changes would taking the show in the direction you describe, I wouldn't be near as perturbed as I am. However, I suppose I see the changes as only bringing Atlantis closer to the SG1 model instead of taking it further away. It seems to me that the only changes are taking away what made Atlantis different. Military instead of civilian commander – check. Gate team travel oriented instead of Atlantis/base oriented – check. Female instead of male doctor – check. (ok, that last one was tongue in cheek, but hey :) )

I agree with your points here. Bringing over an SG1 cast member for such a large proportion of the season's episodes, to me, only serves to make Atlantis more like SG1 rather than the two shows having their own distinct personalities.



One other thing, and I'm already afraid this post has gone way off topic. :( But you mentioned BSG in one of your posts. While Stargate could certainly learn from them, I personally hope they never take the show to that level. There’s a reason that I stopped watching BSG a season and a half in. While I agree that it’s a superbly written show, and I enjoyed the characters, I simply couldn’t handle the continual angst fest, and its not the first show I’ve dropped for overangst (is that a word?) One of the reasons I’ve enjoyed both Stargates over the years is the moments of fun interspersed with the drama, and the team/family aspect. You can have good writing, good character development, even conflict, and still have a close team family. Just look at NCIS, another of my favorite shows. (one of my own personal fantasies has Don Bellisario taking over as EP of Stargate. Of course, he would probably want to make Sheppard a marine, but you can’t have everything. <grin>).


Very good point there. I too gave up on BSG part way into Season 2 and another good example of this is Buffy The Vampire Slayer - it was a favourite show of mine and I watched religiously every week and bought the videos etc etc but I did start to find myself in Season 6 almost dreading seeing each new episode because the unrelenting heartache was just becoming too much! I wanted to watch, I wanted to enjoy the show and find out what would happen but it just became depressing.. any time any character got a mere moment of happiness it would be ripped away from them in some tragedy. I've got enough heartache and pain IRL, I watch TV, to a certain extent, to escape from those harsh realities!


I agree. At the beginning of S2, the military higher-ups wanted to pat Sheppard on the head for a job well done, and send him on his way. It wouldn't have been a demotion, because he was never officially commander of the expedition, but in reality, he had been the de facto commander for a year, and that would have been taken away from him. Then, they even had Landry suggesting that Sheppard not be sent back to Atlantis, because having a former commander serving under a new commanding officer could be awkward. If they stick in Carter as leader of Atlantis now, that would result in the exact situation Landry considered undesirable then.

So it seems the real sticky point for me is not whether Carter can or should replace Weir, but what having her as leader of Atlantis would mean to Sheppard. Although, Ellis' suggestion that Sheppard run Atlantis doesn't sit well with me, either. Personally, I think it'd be gold to have McKay step up and take charge while Weir is down from her injuries, but I think I'd need a ZPM-charged shield to duck the complaints that McKay is already way too over-developed. :D

Good point. Not much else to say other than I agree! ;)

Elite Anubis Guard
February 22nd, 2007, 06:35 AM
Because the topics so long, I'm just gonna skip reading it all. Carter replacing Weir isn't what worries me the most. As foreshadowed in First Strike, it would seem that Sheppard will be getting command of the expedition. What worries is me is what Carter being there will do to Rodney.

Now don't get me wrong, Pegasus Project was an awesome weapon, but it also turned Rodney into that idiot we saw on SG1, not the lovable Rodney we've got in Atlantis.

vaberella
February 22nd, 2007, 06:52 AM
Because the topics so long, I'm just gonna skip reading it all. Carter replacing Weir isn't what worries me the most. As foreshadowed in First Strike, it would seem that Sheppard will be getting command of the expedition. What worries is me is what Carter being there will do to Rodney.

Now don't get me wrong, Pegasus Project was an awesome weapon, but it also turned Rodney into that idiot we saw on SG1, not the lovable Rodney we've got in Atlantis.

And this is what I have said on numerous occasions. Carter is not a problem until she is in any vicinity near Rodney and then Rodney looks like a psychotic baffoon. I can't handle that. It's not attractive or appealing to his character become a dancing monkey on screen. If they are able to keep these two apart, or as far away from each other as they can. I would love Carter on SGA.:mckay:

the dancer of spaz
February 22nd, 2007, 07:47 AM
Blimey, I don't want Sheppard as boss of Atlantis. No way!!!
I want him on his team, which is what will happen. JM has said the team of four will be the main focus in season 4, with the support of others, so no way will Sheppard be in charge on a permanent basis.
No, I actually want a female in charge.

But the issue that has arisen has nothing to do with a female being in charge, and indeed that's not what I'm talking about... People seem to have an issue with a military officer coming onto Atlantis to not only take over Weir's position, but to move in - as some have said - on Sheppard's rightful position as well. And, of course, there are some major beefs that it's Carter.

And I'm saying that a military officer cannot take over Weir's position at all, without essentially "demoting" Sheppard to the 2IC of the base. He cannot hold both positions if they militarize the base. To bring a connection to SG-1, it would've been like making Jack the CO of the SGC in S8, but allowing him to maintain his role as CO of SG-1. It just wouldn't work.

Linzi
February 22nd, 2007, 08:17 AM
But the issue that has arisen has nothing to do with a female being in charge, and indeed that's not what I'm talking about... People seem to have an issue with a military officer coming onto Atlantis to not only take over Weir's position, but to move in - as some have said - on Sheppard's rightful position as well. And, of course, there are some major beefs that it's Carter.

And I'm saying that a military officer cannot take over Weir's position at all, without essentially "demoting" Sheppard to the 2IC of the base. He cannot hold both positions if they militarize the base. To bring a connection to SG-1, it would've been like making Jack the CO of the SGC in S8, but allowing him to maintain his role as CO of SG-1. It just wouldn't work.
Ah, ok, I see what you mean.
I still don't want Shep in charge per se. Not sure how I'd feel about Sheppard not being military commander though. Maybe, if Sam were to be overall boss that Sheppard would still run military operations? Or maybe not. I can see where people's concerns are coming from then, to a certain extent. I'm just totally confused now!!

J_schinderlin56
February 22nd, 2007, 09:46 AM
Carter is a good charicter, but atlantis already has good charicters. If she can add to what's already there. Then maybe it's good. But she shouldn't REPLACE anyone.

vaberella
February 22nd, 2007, 10:24 AM
But the issue that has arisen has nothing to do with a female being in charge, and indeed that's not what I'm talking about... People seem to have an issue with a military officer coming onto Atlantis to not only take over Weir's position, but to move in - as some have said - on Sheppard's rightful position as well. And, of course, there are some major beefs that it's Carter.

And I'm saying that a military officer cannot take over Weir's position at all, without essentially "demoting" Sheppard to the 2IC of the base. He cannot hold both positions if they militarize the base. To bring a connection to SG-1, it would've been like making Jack the CO of the SGC in S8, but allowing him to maintain his role as CO of SG-1. It just wouldn't work.

The second paragraph is true and based on passed episodes of SGA, we can deduce if military personnel with higher rank is placed in or along aiding Atlantis, they might be usurp John's authority. I didn't notice that people would have that much of an objection against Carter doing this, but I find it completely unlikely since again JM has been quoted as saying the limited presence Carter will play---her authority will probably be based on an advisory level than really authoritive.


Ah, ok, I see what you mean.
I still don't want Shep in charge per se. Not sure how I'd feel about Sheppard not being military commander though. Maybe, if Sam were to be overall boss that Sheppard would still run military operations? Or maybe not. I can see where people's concerns are coming from then, to a certain extent. I'm just totally confused now!!

I personally don't mind Shep in charge, because I'd like to see how he'd feel about people raging against him. He seems to be very receptive to decisions and actions of others when they go against his authority, ie. Ronon and Teyla. But we don't know how that would stand in other instances. Plus it would be great to see how he handles this responbility, even for a little bit.

But as for the confusion, the issue is slightly convulated and it does pose an interesting paradigm. We still don't understand the distribution of authority. Taking into consideration epsiodes like Intruder and No Man's Land, when 3 heads of respective departments are gone; authority seems to be placed in Teyla's hands. She is informing them of infomation and keeps up data reports, as seen in Intruder; and in the case of NML when Weir is called away by the IOA she tells Teyla to hold the fort. Of course Lorne may be head of military and Zelenka, science; but Teyla head of everything and decisions are placed in her hand or passed out through her by Weir.

Then looking at when the heads are there...and with regards to TLG, we get a little thrown. So if Weir and John are not around or incapacitated who is military head or head in general? In that case because Caldwell was there he assumed control. But based on my idea and in the ep McKay should be the third in command and making the decisions---unless of course it deals with military intervention, in which case he has no authority. So why not Lorne? But we see no usage of Lorne has head of anything in any of the eps where he would be a serious player.

If it was only Weir incapacitated, that would mean John takes over both departments or does he share with McKay, until someone else can take lead. We aren't really sure. Or I'm not... So when a decision is brought forth who makes the final call. When Weir is around it's her, and this was seen even when the situation would and eventually did demand military intervention---she overruled John's decision in Michael. So that means she's full authority, and it's not shared. In this case, since John is second in command to Weir, in military, is he then taking orders from McKay since he's second highest civilian personnel in Atlantis, or can John overrule him?

So if another military personnel of a higher rank shows up what happens to John...I wonder. Because if in TLG it was only Weir, John would then be able to overrule Caldwell---becuase Caldwell is not assigned to Atlantis (only on an advisory or asisstance stand point---not control) and therefore he doesn't have any say in the decisions that are made, but John does. It would then mean that Carter would have no say in John's position in Atlantis since she is assigned her own ship, unless this is directly stated by the IOA.

Bah, I'm starting to give up understanding who leads what, myself. But I don't think Carter is in charge---unless the IOA states as much.

Agent_Dark
February 22nd, 2007, 11:52 AM
It's obviously your opinion that there is no difference between the shows but other people have their opinions too and they are just as valid (I'm sorry, but I found your comment above a tiny bit condescending.. it seemed to be suggesting that if the person you were replying to took a moment to try and be logical, they would soon see things your way. Perhaps I misinterpreted your intention, in which case I apologise). I personally don't see the shows as particularly similar.. sure they are set in the same universe etc but the basic premises of the shows are quite different - SGA is in different galaxy, whole different situation (infrequent contact with Earth, reliant on supply runs by ship that takes weeks etc - I could liken the situation to SG1 working out of a company's US corporate HQ with all the facilities to hand and SGA being the company's recent acquisition in Delhi with a staff sent out to set up the subsidiary company but having to some extent find their own way in a different culture and without the instant access to things that would be easily available at the HQ), civilian-led operation, different enemies, different tone etc etc. For all these reasons - and, importantly, because of the characters involved - I much prefer SGA to SG1. I enjoy SG1 and watch it.. but I am a fan of SGA. And speaking of the characters, your suggestion above appears to be that the names and faces are different but the characters essentially the same? I don't see that either.. sure, I guess the roles can be considered to be vaguely the same in that we have a soldier and a scientist and a native warrior etc.. but even in that respect there are intrinsic differences.. the scientist on SGA is not also a soldier, the civilian on the team is not a linguist and historian, only one of the SGA team is Earth military etc. The team dynamic is different and the relationships are different.
Sure, it's easy for the dedicated fans to see the differences but is it so easy for the average, mainstream fans? I'm saying no. Remember, there's been very little difference between the ratings for both shows, so that suggests that the majority of the audience watch both. When SG1's ratings have gone down, so have Atlantis'. If Atlantis was such a different show, why would people stop watching both of them?


The only thing I see that is different in Sam coming to Atlantis is the presupposed knowledge of her history with SGC - to, for example, a viewer who is not interested in SG1 and has not watched it but watches SGA (and there are those viewers out there) how is Sam bringing anything new to SGA that any random new Lt Col wouldn't?
That's my point - that the large majority of the audience already watches SG1 (as the ratings would suggest), so the audience is already familiar with Carter. Hell, even a poll here showed that 90+% of the members watched both shows. A viewer who doesn't watch SG1 is in the minority, and well it's not like she's never been appeared/mentioned before on the show before. The other 'randoms' just appeared out of nowhere.

jenks
February 22nd, 2007, 11:55 AM
That's my point - that the large majority of the audience already watches SG1 (as the ratings would suggest),

Actually, the rating don't really suggest that at all, they could just as easily have two seperate sets of fans of similar size...

Agent_Dark
February 22nd, 2007, 11:58 AM
Actually, the rating don't really suggest that at all, they could just as easily have two seperate sets of fans of similar size...

Do you really believe that though...?

jenks
February 22nd, 2007, 12:00 PM
Do you really believe that though...?

No, but I still wouldn't say the ratings show the same fans watch both shows, I just expect that to be the case...

Agent_Dark
February 22nd, 2007, 12:03 PM
No, but I still wouldn't say the ratings show the same fans watch both shows, I just expect that to be the case...

Sure it's not scientific proof, but I'd bet money on it. How many Trek fans do you know that are fans of The Next Generation but don't watch Deep Space Nine for example? (btw I know nothing about Trek... ;))

Briangate78
February 22nd, 2007, 12:13 PM
Carter is great! Season 4 will rock. We will see Weir around often, I am sure of it. Keep the faith. Maybe Carter is only a temp, and then Weir will be back full time later on! :)

Ltcolshepjumper
February 22nd, 2007, 12:33 PM
Carter is great! Season 4 will rock. We will see Weir around often, I am sure of it. Keep the faith. Maybe Carter is only a temp, and then Weir will be back full time later on! :)

Doubt it. Seems like Weir's LEAVING.

Briangate78
February 22nd, 2007, 12:47 PM
Doubt it. Seems like Weir's LEAVING.


Just like they said O'neill would never return for ANY eps of SG-1. I will be optomistic. Torri is not the one who wants to leave, so we'll see.

PG15
February 22nd, 2007, 12:54 PM
Sure it's not scientific proof, but I'd bet money on it. How many Trek fans do you know that are fans of The Next Generation but don't watch Deep Space Nine for example? (btw I know nothing about Trek... ;))

And it shows. :p (Sorry, but you left it wide open!)

Here's a little off-topic stroll into Trek history. DS9 was the first series to "boldly go nowhere", so naturally, Trek fans rejected it. There are actually a lot of fans who are TNG purests who wouldn't watch DS9 since it didn't involve a starship.

IMHO it's one of the reasons why ratings peaked during the later seasons of TNG and died off quickly once it ended.

Night Spring
February 22nd, 2007, 01:07 PM
Just like they said O'neill would never return for ANY eps of SG-1. I will be optomistic.
Huh? What are you referring to? I thought both RDA and TPTB were always open to having RDA do the occasional guest appearances?

kymeric
February 22nd, 2007, 01:14 PM
Weir has been replaced before: Colonely hillbilly from the end of season one, and by Jack in sg1 at the start of season 8, returning Tria ancients....

Without sg1 Carter was made head of R&D at area 51. Leadership of Atlantis is pretty close to that. Who better? If the goverment wants a military leader? A capable scientist? A buttload of experience?

I dont hate this idea.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 22nd, 2007, 01:33 PM
Weir has been replaced before: Colonely hillbilly from the end of season one, and by Jack in sg1 at the start of season 8, returning Tria ancients....

Without sg1 Carter was made head of R&D at area 51. Leadership of Atlantis is pretty close to that. Who better? If the goverment wants a military leader? A capable scientist? A buttload of experience?

I dont hate this idea.

No, it isn't. Heading Research and Development at Area 51 is not even close to leading Atlantis. How could you make a claim like that? Carter didn't have to deal with threats at Area 51. Carter heading R&D at Area 51 was like a deskjob for her. There is no way you could possibly think being head of Area 51 is similar to being head of Atlantis! And, no, Weir has never been replaced as head. Don't try that. Weir as head of Atlantis has never been replaced. No, Colonel Everett didn't replace her, because she still had an active role in the ep and remained leader throughout it. No, Weir leading SGC was a whole different scenarion because 1) fans weren't used to her, 2) She wasn't a regular, and 3) she immediately got a new position as head of Atlantis. So, no, your claims are exaggerated. NO, Weir has never been replaced before and Carter has never been in a leadership position like Dr. Weir. The government probably wouldn't choose Carter as leader based on her skills as a scientist.

vaberella
February 22nd, 2007, 01:43 PM
No, it isn't. Heading Research and Development at Area 51 is not even close to leading Atlantis. How could you make a claim like that? Carter didn't have to deal with threats at Area 51. Carter heading R&D at Area 51 was like a deskjob for her. There is no way you could possibly think being head of Area 51 is similar to being head of Atlantis! And, no, Weir has never been replaced as head. Don't try that. Weir as head of Atlantis has never been replaced. No, Colonel Everett didn't replace her, because she still had an active role in the ep and remained leader throughout it. No, Weir leading SGC was a whole different scenarion because 1) fans weren't used to her, 2) She wasn't a regular, and 3) she immediately got a new position as head of Atlantis. So, no, your claims are exaggerated. NO, Weir has never been replaced before and Carter has never been in a leadership position like Dr. Weir. The government probably wouldn't choose Carter as leader based on her skills as a scientist.


This is in no way to appear as me supporting Carter as leader, but just a comment on the statement above. Weir didn't have to deal with threats when she was head of whatever it was in the arctic, probably research and development from what I can gather of Rising (although i could be wrong). But she was put head of the ex in S1. Weir had a similar desk job, and apparently saw solitaire fun to do in pass time, while in the PG. We can have Carter play Sudoku in her past time. :mckay: I don't get your defense. I don't see any lessons learned by Weir that would make her expertise (if we can call it that) indespensible that McKay/John/Teyla couldn't offer. She's not even first contact with the people, the teams are, she's second best.

Agent_Dark
February 22nd, 2007, 02:04 PM
And it shows. :p (Sorry, but you left it wide open!)

Here's a little off-topic stroll into Trek history. DS9 was the first series to "boldly go nowhere", so naturally, Trek fans rejected it. There are actually a lot of fans who are TNG purests who wouldn't watch DS9 since it didn't involve a starship.

IMHO it's one of the reasons why ratings peaked during the later seasons of TNG and died off quickly once it ended.

Doh! Would a comparison between TNG and Voyager be better?

PG15
February 22nd, 2007, 02:21 PM
Sort of.

The thing with Trek, is that, ever since TNG's 6th season, the ratings have been bleeding at an almost-constant rate, so it's difficult to tell what happened. And then, due to the fact that there were 5 separate shows, you also get purists who only watched the original series, or only watched TNG, or only watched DS9, or VOY, or ENT. You think Stargate's complicated? You have no idea. ;) The permutations of what Trek fans watch in terms of Trek shows can be very complicated. Also, due to the fact that there wasn't much of relative overlap in the shows (only 2 instances comes to mind; 2 years of overlap between DS9 and TNG, and 3.5 years of overlap between DS9 and VOY), it's hard to tell what everyone was watching. AND, this overlap primarily happened before the online community really got built up. It's a big mess.

As a Trekkie, this little ratings event particularly made me aware that, most of the time, ratings mean absolutely nothing. But we're reeaaally getting off topic here. :D

Elite Anubis Guard
February 22nd, 2007, 02:25 PM
Meh. As a Trekkie I watched everything.

Sheppard141
February 22nd, 2007, 02:48 PM
Here are a few points that I am thinking about.

1- If Weir remains in command then what will Sam's role be?
2- If Weir is not in command then will Sam be commander, and why would they kill off Weir?
3- If Weir is not in command and Sam is not in command then who will be?

ReganX
February 22nd, 2007, 03:03 PM
Here are a few points that I am thinking about.

1- If Weir remains in command then what will Sam's role be?
2- If Weir is not in command then will Sam be commander, and why would they kill off Weir?
3- If Weir is not in command and Sam is not in command then who will be?

They may not do that.

Sheppard141
February 22nd, 2007, 03:11 PM
Maybe but those are the only ways that Weir and Sam could be on the show together.

the dancer of spaz
February 22nd, 2007, 03:13 PM
Maybe but those are the only ways that Weir and Sam could be on the show together.

If they killed Weir off? :tealcanime49:

Sheppard141
February 22nd, 2007, 03:15 PM
well she was badly hutr at the end of first strike so that would be a easy way to bring Sam into a command position. Or even if Weir steps down as the leader. She hinted towards that in first strike.

RealmOfX
February 22nd, 2007, 03:19 PM
No, it isn't. Heading Research and Development at Area 51 is not even close to leading Atlantis. How could you make a claim like that? Carter didn't have to deal with threats at Area 51. Carter heading R&D at Area 51 was like a deskjob for her. There is no way you could possibly think being head of Area 51 is similar to being head of Atlantis!

Actually, do you even know what it entails to lead a large group of people? This is a serious question and not snark, it just seems that by your rather categoric statements that you really do not know.

Being in charge of R&D Area 51 and being in charge of Atlantis would be remarkably the same. The major difference being that Atlantis is on potentially dangerous ground and occasionally requires military action.

Sam would have no trouble dealing with that major difference either because she has more off world military experience than most of the SGC.


And, no, Weir has never been replaced as head. Don't try that. Weir as head of Atlantis has never been replaced. No, Colonel Everett didn't replace her, because she still had an active role in the ep and remained leader throughout it. No, Weir leading SGC was a whole different scenarion because 1) fans weren't used to her, 2) She wasn't a regular, and 3) she immediately got a new position as head of Atlantis. So, no, your claims are exaggerated. NO, Weir has never been replaced before and Carter has never been in a leadership position like Dr. Weir. The government probably wouldn't choose Carter as leader based on her skills as a scientist.

Actually Weir was relieved in that episode.

EVERETT: General O'Neill sends his compliments on a job well done under extraordinary circumstances. [He salutes.] You are relieved.

Sheppard141
February 22nd, 2007, 03:22 PM
Actually, do you even know what it entails to lead a large group of people? Being in charge of R&D Area 51 and being in charge of Atlantis would be remarkably the same. The major difference being that Atlantis is on potentially dangerous ground and occasionally requires military action.

Sam would have no trouble dealing with that major difference either because she has more off world military experience than most of the SGC.



Perhaps you weren't paying attention in that episode?

EVERETT: General O'Neill sends his compliments on a job well done under extraordinary circumstances. [He salutes.] You are relieved.

Lets hope that is the case and they keep Weir around. And sam doesn't take the command role

Uber
February 22nd, 2007, 04:15 PM
Lets hope that is the case and they keep Weir around. And sam doesn't take the command roleWhile I hope that Weir sticks around, I think the idea of Carter being in command of Atlantis makes a lot of sense.

Briangate78
February 22nd, 2007, 04:28 PM
Save Elizabeth Weir?

But she is not going anywhere. Here read this from GATEWORLD...

On the other hand, Weir could remain in charge of Atlantis despite the status change, but simply not appear in as many episodes. In the history of Stargate, such actors as McGillion (in the show's first season), David Nykl ("Radek Zelenka"), and SG-1's Teryl Rothery ("Janet Fraiser") have appeared in more than half of a season with "recurring" status.


http://www.gateworld.net/news/2007/01/higginson_to_be_recurring_in_sea.shtml

Ltcolshepjumper
February 22nd, 2007, 04:57 PM
Save Elizabeth Weir?

But she is not going anywhere. Here read this from GATEWORLD...

On the other hand, Weir could remain in charge of Atlantis despite the status change, but simply not appear in as many episodes. In the history of Stargate, such actors as McGillion (in the show's first season), David Nykl ("Radek Zelenka"), and SG-1's Teryl Rothery ("Janet Fraiser") have appeared in more than half of a season with "recurring" status.


http://www.gateworld.net/news/2007/01/higginson_to_be_recurring_in_sea.shtml

You will actually take gateworld as fact? Yes, if she had any other position I'd agree, but she's the leader and UberSg-1Fan, if Carter takes her place as lead, Weir wouldn't really have a place on the show, now would she? Because she doesn't do alot of negotiating regularly and she will be kicked out of the leadership position. I'd rather Carter come on as someone to help Mckay and Sheppard, and Weir keep the only position available for her, because Carter has a number of choices for what to do in Atlantis, Weir only has one.



Actually Weir was relieved in that episode.

EVERETT: General O'Neill sends his compliments on a job well done under extraordinary circumstances. [He salutes.] You are relieved.
For your first comment, no they are still different. Carter never faced the challenges Weir faced. Carter heading R&D could have been like Mckay as head of the Scince department or Beckett as CMO. YOu wouldn't say those two's command positions were similar to heading Atlantis would you? That's like saying because Weir headed Atlantis, she could run for president. and for the second comment, that case was different because although she was relieved she never left the screen, meaning she still had an active part, despite what Everett said. Now, had she failed to appear in the remainder of the episode, yes, I would agree.

Briangate78
February 22nd, 2007, 05:09 PM
You will actually take gateworld as fact? Yes, if she had any other position I'd agree, but she's the leader and UberSg-1Fan, if Carter takes her place as lead, Weir wouldn't really have a place on the show, now would she? Because she doesn't do alot of negotiating regularly and she will be kicked out of the leadership position. I'd rather Carter come on as someone to help Mckay and Sheppard, and Weir keep the only position available for her, because Carter has a number of choices for what to do in Atlantis, Weir only has one.





I do not see Carter leading Atlantis, she is a team player and is out there on the field or in the lab solving problems. She cannot make decisions and even doubted herself many times in Season 8, when O'neill was no longer SG-1 team leader.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 22nd, 2007, 05:11 PM
I do not see Carter leading Atlantis, she is a team player and is out there on the field or in the lab solving problems. She cannot make decisions and even doubted herself many times in Season 8, when O'neill was no longer SG-1 team leader.

I agree with all those points, and those are my exact opinions. It doesn't mean TPTB won't go that route and, TBH, that's the route their comments keep referring to.

RealmOfX
February 22nd, 2007, 05:20 PM
For your first comment, no they are still different. Carter never faced the challenges Weir faced. Carter heading R&D could have been like Mckay as head of the Scince department or Beckett as CMO. YOu wouldn't say those two's command positions were similar to heading Atlantis would you? That's like saying because Weir headed Atlantis, she could run for president. and for the second comment, that case was different because although she was relieved she never left the screen, meaning she still had an active part, despite what Everett said. Now, had she failed to appear in the remainder of the episode, yes, I would agree.

Sorry, the jobs are remarkably similar.

She was RELIEVED as head of the expedition. Denying it doesn't change the fact.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 22nd, 2007, 05:26 PM
Sorry, the jobs are remarkably similar.

She was RELIEVED as head of the expedition. Denying it doesn't change the fact.

I'm not denying it. She was relieved but its alot different because her role was never decreased in that episode. As for R&D, being a leader period doesn't make them similar. Let's see, leading an expedition and being responsible for the lives of hundreds and, overseeing what is researched and developed in Area 51. Wow, very similar? Like I said, Beckett was CMO, and he led the doctors in what they researched with the retrovirus, and he directed them when he operated on people. Does that mean he was jsut as qualified to lead a city? NO. See, both leadership positions, but they are still different. One requires more than the other.

Briangate78
February 22nd, 2007, 05:45 PM
I agree with all those points, and those are my exact opinions. It doesn't mean TPTB won't go that route and, TBH, that's the route their comments keep referring to.


To please the SG-1 and SGA fans Carter should be Carter, she cannot go out of the scope of her character. If Weir remains the head of Atlantis, which i know she will, imo. Then things will be fine. :)

PG15
February 22nd, 2007, 07:27 PM
Ok, directly from Joe's blog (I'm Peter, by the way):


Peter writes: “Come Season 4, will Amanda Tapping be seen in the Opening Credits?”

Answer: Yup.

http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/

So I guess that means Carter will be a regular next year, but just barely.

Killdeer
February 22nd, 2007, 07:33 PM
So I guess that means Carter will be a regular next year, but just barely.

Just barely? Why do you say that?

(just seeking clarification here, no attack meant)

PG15
February 22nd, 2007, 07:40 PM
Well, she's only in 14 episodes. That's pretty low for a regular, IMHO.

Killdeer
February 22nd, 2007, 07:44 PM
Well, she's only in 14 episodes. That's pretty low for a regular, IMHO.

Ok - just wondering what you meant. Thanks for clarifying!

PG15
February 22nd, 2007, 07:48 PM
No problem! :D

nano
February 22nd, 2007, 09:04 PM
why would carter replace weir? she's the same rank as sheppard and it's been said that she will command her own ship. people seem to keep thinking that weir may be killed off but there's no evidence to support that.

Carter was promoted before Sheppard so she outranks him.

vaberella
February 22nd, 2007, 09:50 PM
Carter was promoted before Sheppard so she outranks him.

No she doesn't, not in Atlantis. Mainly because she's not assigned to Atlantis. He's assigned there so he outranks any official, unless with direct orders from the IOA and anyon else in the higher up who can give that 'okay'. And it doesn't matter who got it first, ranking is ranking.

Agent_Dark
February 22nd, 2007, 09:52 PM
No she doesn't, not in Atlantis. Mainly because she's not assigned to Atlantis. He's assigned there so he outranks any official, unless with direct orders from the IOA and anyon else in the higher up who can give that 'okay'. And it doesn't matter who got it first, ranking is ranking.

That would be only in situations directly relating to his command though.

RealmOfX
February 22nd, 2007, 10:41 PM
No she doesn't, not in Atlantis. Mainly because she's not assigned to Atlantis. He's assigned there so he outranks any official, unless with direct orders from the IOA and anyon else in the higher up who can give that 'okay'. And it doesn't matter who got it first, ranking is ranking.

Ouch! I think I get what you mean but you sure are messing up the terminology. :)

First off, civilians often use the term out rank to mean that Person X is more senior to Person Y and in that sense, it is correct. That is what I am assuming nano meant.

Out rank actually means that you are a higher rank than someone else; as in a major outranks a captain (air force).

I take it you mean that unless Sam is assigned a command over Shep then she can't give him orders in relation to his command which is correct. However Shep's assignment has no bearing on who he out ranks, that depends on the individuals involved rank.

The IOA cannot give orders to the military, though they can bring political pressure to bear on the chain of command above Shep and possibly get things done the IOA way.

Sam is the same rank as Shep but she is senior to him and it does matter in certain circumstances.

Pitry
February 23rd, 2007, 12:38 AM
Well, she's only in 14 episodes. That's pretty low for a regular, IMHO.

She was in 15 for SG1s seaosn 9.

Linzi
February 23rd, 2007, 01:07 AM
Ok, directly from Joe's blog (I'm Peter, by the way):



http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/

So I guess that means Carter will be a regular next year, but just barely.
Can't say I'm surprised, I said this quite a while ago.

scarimor
February 23rd, 2007, 01:55 AM
Carter could easily command Atlantis. Whether she would want the command is another matter. She may have other career priorities.

Celcool
February 23rd, 2007, 02:20 AM
Carter could easily command Atlantis. Whether she would want the command is another matter. She may have other career priorities.
It actually depends on the writers, if they want her to be in command, not on Carter. :P

Anyone could easily command Atlantis if the writers make them so. Elizabeth, Carter, anyone but I prefer the person who's been in charge so far, not an intruder.

scarimor
February 23rd, 2007, 02:25 AM
It actually depends on the writers, if they want her to be in command, not on Carter. :P
ha-de-ha ha :p :D

The Carter the writers have written could easily command Atlantis. Whether they write her wanting to is another matter. They may write her with other career priorities. (ok with that? ;))

I'd prefer it if both Weir and Carter were on the show, but the loss of my SGA favourite Weir isn't going to stop me enjoying the addition of my SG-1 favourite - Carter. :)

Celcool
February 23rd, 2007, 02:31 AM
The Carter the writers have written could easily command Atlantis. Whether they write her wanting to is another matter. They may write her with other career priorities. (ok with that? ;))
Better. ;)


I'd prefer it if both Weir and Carter were on the show, but the loss of my SGA favourite Weir isn't going to stop me enjoying the addition of my SG-1 favourite - Carter. :)
Good for you. I wouldn't mind Carter coming if they wouldn't get rid of Weir at the expense of her. I could live with both, if nothing would change regarding Elizabeth. I don't watch SG-1, I've watched a few episodes only, the show hasn't captivated me the way Atlantis did but if I had to choose, Carter would be my favorite character from SG-1 and now all this has somehow made me dislike her.

Integrabyte
February 23rd, 2007, 03:37 AM
Yes, I believe CARTER is more than capable to replace Weir. Why?

1. She was a regular 10 Seasons in SG1. That has to count for something.
(no point to mention this is SGA and not SG1. It is well known that SGA is 90 % SG1 in a different setting, of course)

2. She has more experience than anyone in SGA.
3. She can adapt to many situations far better than most of the SGA personnel. She played a huge variety of roles. Geek, sexy-geek, Replicator, rocket scientist, US MARINE :P, etc
4. Someone needs to put a leash on McKay. Maybe we will have episodes where his appetite will not be mentioned. Who knows, that would be an improvement.

ubiquitous
February 23rd, 2007, 04:32 AM
Yes, I believe CARTER is more than capable to replace Weir. Why?

1. She was a regular 10 Seasons in SG1. That has to count for something.
(no point to mention this is SGA and not SG1. It is well known that SGA is 90 % SG1 in a different setting, of course)

2. She has more experience than anyone in SGA.
3. She can adapt to many situations far better than most of the SGA personnel. She played a huge variety of roles. Geek, sexy-geek, Replicator, rocket scientist, US MARINE :P, etc
4. Someone needs to put a leash on McKay. Maybe we will have episodes where his appetite will not be mentioned. Who knows, that would be an improvement.

I think points #1-3 sum up why I don't think Carter could/should be leader: she's done it all before. It's boring to see it all again, especially when re-using plot arcs like the replicators. And personally, I think that the original members SG1 are pretty much become caricatures of themselves.

As for point #4, I highly doubt that Carter's inclusion will put a leash on McKay. Rather, I think the opposite.

vaberella
February 23rd, 2007, 04:37 AM
I think it's doubtful that Carter is leader, so I don't see the big complaints. And if she was, I'd be willing to give her a chance. If you don't think one president is doing a good job, you vote for a new one. Sure there is no voting here, but whatever...

prion
February 23rd, 2007, 05:30 AM
I think it's doubtful that Carter is leader, so I don't see the big complaints. And if she was, I'd be willing to give her a chance. If you don't think one president is doing a good job, you vote for a new one. Sure there is no voting here, but whatever...

She's going to be in the main credits, while Torri will not, so..... do the math. If nothing else I'm sure AT will get more screentime than TH (14 episodes compared to ???). So much for SG1 being cancelled. Looks like SGA is being assimilated (like the Borg).

prion
February 23rd, 2007, 05:37 AM
Yes, I believe CARTER is more than capable to replace Weir. Why?

1. She was a regular 10 Seasons in SG1. That has to count for something.
(no point to mention this is SGA and not SG1. It is well known that SGA is 90 % SG1 in a different setting, of course)

2. She has more experience than anyone in SGA.
3. She can adapt to many situations far better than most of the SGA personnel. She played a huge variety of roles. Geek, sexy-geek, Replicator, rocket scientist, US MARINE :P, etc
4. Someone needs to put a leash on McKay. Maybe we will have episodes where his appetite will not be mentioned. Who knows, that would be an improvement.

There's no proof she has more experience than anyone else in SGA. The SGA people aren't newbies; they've all been in science/military as long as she has. She might have more experience messing around with the replicators (and not always with good results) but when it comes to wraith, etc., she's the new kid on the block.

Adapting? THe SGA people left Earth on a one-way trip. If that's not adapting, I don't know what is. Carter's always had the comfort of an earth base and backup. Atlantis was on their own for a year.

Snort ;) Yes, we need another woman portrayed as 'sexy geek.' It's a scifi stereotype that the writers love to push. Er,and she's Air Force, not Marine ;)

I like McKay the way he is :)

vaberella
February 23rd, 2007, 05:48 AM
She's going to be in the main credits, while Torri will not, so..... do the math. If nothing else I'm sure AT will get more screentime than TH (14 episodes compared to ???). So much for SG1 being cancelled. Looks like SGA is being assimilated (like the Borg).

You're again forgetting that doesn't mean she's leader. Carter also has her own ship, she could play an advisory role or help in decision making, but not be leader. Again, I'll wait until I see S4, until I write it's the demise of Weir and 'All Hail Queen Carter of Atlantis'. Further more, if you're in 14 eps you deserve to be in the credits, that's a lot of eps.

Suzotchka
February 23rd, 2007, 06:23 AM
Good for you. I wouldn't mind Carter coming if they wouldn't get rid of Weir at the expense of her. I could live with both, if nothing would change regarding Elizabeth. I don't watch SG-1, I've watched a few episodes only, the show hasn't captivated me the way Atlantis did but if I had to choose, Carter would be my favorite character from SG-1 and now all this has somehow made me dislike her.

I was so excited when I heard that my favorite character in SG-1, Sam Carter, was coming to Atlantis. But I don't want her coming over at the expense of my favorite Atlantis character - Elizabeth Weir. I guess the real question is - why can't we have both? Why can't both characters be there for 14 episodes? I think the writers are missing out on a ton of good stories by not having Weir, Carter and Teyla all on the show together as regular characters.

Could Carter replace Weir? Sure she could. Should she? No, I hope not.

But Carter could also replace McKay. McKay could now go offworld more and let Sam handle things on Atlantis. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Oh wait, I won't be watching, so I guess I'll just read the spoilers.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 06:31 AM
You're again forgetting that doesn't mean she's leader. Carter also has her own ship, she could play an advisory role or help in decision making, but not be leader. Again, I'll wait until I see S4, until I write it's the demise of Weir and 'All Hail Queen Carter of Atlantis'. Further more, if you're in 14 eps you deserve to be in the credits, that's a lot of eps.

NO, you don't deserve to be in the credits. Zelenka will have about 14 eps ( if I remember correctly). Doesn't mean he'll be in the credits. If she's a regular, then she would be in the credits.

jenks
February 23rd, 2007, 06:33 AM
NO, you don't deserve to be in the credits. Zelenka will have about 14 eps ( if I remember correctly). Doesn't mean he'll be in the credits. If she's a regular, then she would be in the credits.

She will be in the credits.

Celcool
February 23rd, 2007, 07:11 AM
I was so excited when I heard that my favorite character in SG-1, Sam Carter, was coming to Atlantis. But I don't want her coming over at the expense of my favorite Atlantis character - Elizabeth Weir. I guess the real question is - why can't we have both? Why can't both characters be there for 14 episodes? I think the writers are missing out on a ton of good stories by not having Weir, Carter and Teyla all on the show together as regular characters.

yeah, exactly. Back then when I heard of Sam coming over and when I didn't believe the Torri rumor I was actually a bit curious of how they'll handle the Elizabeth/Sam interaction. Guess "the boys" can't handle 3 strong women on the show at the same time. Such a shame.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 07:18 AM
yeah, exactly. Back then when I heard of Sam coming over and when I didn't believe the Torri rumor I was actually a bit curious of how they'll handle the Elizabeth/Sam interaction. Guess "the boys" can't handle 3 strong women on the show at the same time. Such a shame.

Or, tptb can't handle 3 strong women on the show at the same time. Hmm?

Celcool
February 23rd, 2007, 07:19 AM
Or, tptb can't handle 3 strong women on the show at the same time. Hmm?
I meant them by saying "the boys". Should've made it clearer. ;)

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 07:24 AM
I meant them by saying "the boys". Should've made it clearer. ;)

Oh. I thought you were referring to "the boys" as in the males of the SGA team. My bad.

scarimor
February 23rd, 2007, 07:30 AM
You're again forgetting that doesn't mean she's leader. Carter also has her own ship, she could play an advisory role or help in decision making, but not be leader. Again, I'll wait until I see S4, until I write it's the demise of Weir and 'All Hail Queen Carter of Atlantis'. Further more, if you're in 14 eps you deserve to be in the credits, that's a lot of eps.
Indeed. I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is newsworthy, really.

ReganX
February 23rd, 2007, 08:06 AM
She's going to be in the main credits, while Torri will not, so..... do the math. If nothing else I'm sure AT will get more screentime than TH (14 episodes compared to ???). So much for SG1 being cancelled. Looks like SGA is being assimilated (like the Borg).

Has that been confirmed? If so, has it been said where she will be in the main credits, or whether she will be in them even in episodes in which she does not appear?

jenks
February 23rd, 2007, 08:09 AM
JM just said that Amanda will be in the opening credits for season 4.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 08:17 AM
Has that been confirmed? If so, has it been said where she will be in the main credits, or whether she will be in them even in episodes in which she does not appear?

If she's in the main credits, she's a regular. If she's a regular she's in the main credits. all of them.

akbar56
February 23rd, 2007, 10:49 AM
Just because Amanda Tapping has been confirmed to be in the opening credits DOES NOT MEAN that Torri has been removed. You people need to relax and just wait to see what happens. Nothing you can do at this point will change the production.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 10:53 AM
Just because Amanda Tapping has been confirmed to be in the opening credits DOES NOT MEAN that Torri has been removed. You people need to relax and just wait to see what happens. Nothing you can do at this point will change the production.

She's recurring now. How can you possibly say, SHE HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED?

akbar56
February 23rd, 2007, 10:55 AM
Well, we haven't actually gotten ANY confirmation on what her official status/number of episodes she will appear in. Just because she is recurring does not mean she won't be in the credits. That is what I was referring to. Don S. Davis could be considered a recurring role when he was on SG1 yet he was in the credits.

flynn1959
February 23rd, 2007, 10:57 AM
She's recurring now. How can you possibly say, SHE HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED?

Of course Weir has been removed. Carter/AT is taking her place on the show and in the credits. It is not a coincidence, it wasn't TH's choice, she has been removed from the show and replaced by AT.

And I for one am really, really mad about that!

flynn1959
February 23rd, 2007, 11:00 AM
Well, we haven't actually gotten ANY confirmation on what her official status/number of episodes she will appear in. Just because she is recurring does not mean she won't be in the credits. That is what I was referring to. Don S. Davis could be considered a recurring role when he was on SG1 yet he was in the credits.

If TH/Weir appears in even half as many Atlantis episodes as DSD/Hammond did on SG1 I will eat my hat! I don't expect to see TH in the series credits next season at all.Then again, I won't be watching so I will have to wait until soomeone else reports back.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 11:00 AM
Well, we haven't actually gotten ANY confirmation on what her official status/number of episodes she will appear in. Just because she is recurring does not mean she won't be in the credits. That is what I was referring to. Don S. Davis could be considered a recurring role when he was on SG1 yet he was in the credits.

But was he recurring? Considered recurring and actually being recurring are two entirely different things, because you could say that even in Seasons Two and Three, Beckett could be considered recurring, yet he was regular.

Night Spring
February 23rd, 2007, 11:11 AM
DSD was in the SG1 main credits throughout S1-S7. And he was in almost every episode -- I'm thinking there're maybe one or two episodes each season he didn't appear in. Yes, his on-screen time was far less than that of the four SG-1 team members, but I don't see how he could ever be considered recurring. He was main cast.

maxbo
February 23rd, 2007, 11:39 AM
Exactly, DSD may not have had nearly as much screen time as the others in the opening credits, but he was never recurring. He was always one of the regular cast members. So, the fact that TH was reduced to recurring is significant and cause for concern, especially when coupled with how tight lipped TPTB has been in sharing Season 4 information regarding Elizabeth.

jenks
February 23rd, 2007, 11:49 AM
Of course Weir has been removed. Carter/AT is taking her place on the show and in the credits. It is not a coincidence, it wasn't TH's choice, she has been removed from the show and replaced by AT.

And I for one am really, really mad about that!

NO, that's speculation.

Night Spring
February 23rd, 2007, 11:54 AM
We may not know whether the decision to remove Torri was made before or after the decision to add AT, or whether the two decisions are related to each other, or the reasons for these decisions, but with AT being placed in the main credits, the end result *is* that AT is replacing TH. That is now a FACT.

flynn1959
February 23rd, 2007, 12:06 PM
We may not know whether the decision to remove Torri was made before or after the decision to add AT, or whether the two decisions are related to each other, or the reasons for these decisions, but with AT being placed in the main credits, the end result *is* that AT is replacing TH. That is now a FACT.


Yes it is. The FACT is that AT has replaced TH. Which is like replacing a three course dinner and wine with a peanut!

kymeric
February 23rd, 2007, 12:22 PM
No, it isn't. Heading Research and Development at Area 51 is not even close to leading Atlantis. How could you make a claim like that? Carter didn't have to deal with threats at Area 51. Carter heading R&D at Area 51 was like a deskjob for her. There is no way you could possibly think being head of Area 51 is similar to being head of Atlantis! And, no, Weir has never been replaced as head. Don't try that. Weir as head of Atlantis has never been replaced. No, Colonel Everett didn't replace her, because she still had an active role in the ep and remained leader throughout it. No, Weir leading SGC was a whole different scenarion because 1) fans weren't used to her, 2) She wasn't a regular, and 3) she immediately got a new position as head of Atlantis. So, no, your claims are exaggerated. NO, Weir has never been replaced before and Carter has never been in a leadership position like Dr. Weir. The government probably wouldn't choose Carter as leader based on her skills as a scientist.

Wow, its just a tv show, take a valium

scarimor
February 23rd, 2007, 12:28 PM
We may not know whether the decision to remove Torri was made before or after the decision to add AT, or whether the two decisions are related to each other, or the reasons for these decisions, but with AT being placed in the main credits, the end result *is* that AT is replacing TH. That is now a FACT.
Well, maybe she's replacing Carson :p

No seriously, if she takes command of Atlantis, then you're right. If she doesn't, you're wrong. There's no fact yet. I mean, if her credit isn't in the same spot as Weir's, how does that refelct? Where's the proof of causality anyway?

I'm a tad baffled by the great weight being attached by some to this development minutaie (sp?). It's as if some are seizing on a credit spot as though it were a paper trail of evidence to a producer's decision making process and order of events. It's not. But the conspiracy theories should please JM :p

Uber
February 23rd, 2007, 12:33 PM
Yes it is. The FACT is that AT has replaced TH. Which is like replacing a three course dinner and wine with a peanut!LOL

Thank you for continuing to be predictable.

And I'm sure you meant to say "Carter has replaced Weir", right? Because otherwise, your comments look decidedly like actor bashing.

At least the other way, while it's an opinion I don't share, it is at least about the characters and not the cast.

prion
February 23rd, 2007, 12:39 PM
Well, maybe she's replacing Carson :p

No seriously, if she takes command of Atlantis, then you're right. If she doesn't, you're wrong. There's no fact yet. I mean, if her credit isn't in the same spot as Weir's, how does that refelct? Where's the proof of causality anyway?

I'm a tad baffled by the great weight being attached by some to this development minutaie (sp?). It's as if some are seizing on a credit spot as though it were a paper trail of evidence to a producer's decision making process and order of events. It's not. But the conspiracy theories should please JM :p

Mallozzi's hobby is to piss off fans, didn't you know? Some people have hobbies like ice skating; he goes on teh web and make vague or insulting references and sits back and laughs ;)

However, the credit argument is ancient. It's been aroudnsince Jonas was on the cast, and then left, and MS came back and god forbid, AT should have the starting lead credit not Ben Browder! I see you missed the reams of posts on that ;)

However, having an actor IN the main beginning credits is important. That actor is now a REGULAR, not recurring. It costs more (hence the lack of say,another character) and puts that character in more episodes.

Carter in.
Weir out.
Simple math.

Pitry
February 23rd, 2007, 12:42 PM
Or, tptb can't handle 3 strong women on the show at the same time. Hmm?

I think I'm missing a strong female character there....

(sorry, til they actually bother and do somethign with Teyla's character I can't consider he a strong female character)

Night Spring
February 23rd, 2007, 12:43 PM
No seriously, if she takes command of Atlantis, then you're right. If she doesn't, you're wrong. There's no fact yet. I mean, if her credit isn't in the same spot as Weir's, how does that refelct? Where's the proof of causality anyway?
1. I said AT has replaced TH, not that Carter has replaced Weir.
2. I specifically said I wasn't making a statement about causality, but that whatever and however the situation came about, that the end result was AT replacing TH. Like, for example, if two cars collide, then we may not know which driver was responsible for the collision, for all we know, neither driver may be responsible and it was some other factor that caused the cars to collide, but that a collision took place is a FACT.

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 12:43 PM
LOL

Thank you for continuing to be predictable.

And I'm sure you meant to say "Carter has replaced Weir", right? Because otherwise, your comments look decidedly like actor bashing.

At least the other way, while it's an opinion I don't share, it is at least about the characters and not the cast.
Well, Prion is right! AT has replaced TH, whether you consider it bashing or not. It's the truth. One thing I seem to realize, is that the primary reason you all (not literally all of you, but those of you who agree w/ Carter's move) support Carter's move to SGA is because she's your favorite character. Try to deny it if you will, but there's no hiding it. UberSG-1Fan, you didn't feel the same way almost two years ago when Mitchell came on the scene of SG-1. Why? Because it seemed to you that Carter was being demoted to bring Mitchell in (which hasn't played out to be the case). Why support her move now? Because, it doesn't seem to be demoting hr character anymore. A lot of what I see now (at least my interpretation) is that some Carter fans who support her move now (who didn't support Mitchell's arrival on SG-1) didn't support Mitchell on SG-1 in S9 because Carter wasn't the spotlight of the show. That's the only thing I see it as. Carter wasn't in the spotlight then, but now on Atlantis, she is... All because she's now the spotlight of the show, because she's the one coming in.

PG15
February 23rd, 2007, 12:44 PM
She was in 15 for SG1s seaosn 9.


Yeah, but that was unavoidable.

kymeric
February 23rd, 2007, 12:45 PM
My guess? Maybe Weir is off to recover from her injuries for awhile and gets promoted or something. She does have an office in the SGC on earth. Maybe Carter being in charge of Atlantis dosent mean shes incharge of wier?

We could have Wier popping in akin to General Laundry in seasons 2&3. Not like wier cant make her generalized orders and oblique narrations from earth over video link.

Comman structure would go Oneill>Landry>Weir>Carter>Sheppard/captain of whatever ship is in pegasus at the time

Like i said, i dont hate it, and it kinda makes sense

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 12:46 PM
Well, maybe she's replacing Carson :p

No seriously, if she takes command of Atlantis, then you're right. If she doesn't, you're wrong. There's no fact yet. I mean, if her credit isn't in the same spot as Weir's, how does that refelct? Where's the proof of causality anyway?

I'm a tad baffled by the great weight being attached by some to this development minutaie (sp?). It's as if some are seizing on a credit spot as though it were a paper trail of evidence to a producer's decision making process and order of events. It's not. But the conspiracy theories should please JM :p

:mckay: What a joke!!! We all know who she's replacing. TH/Dr. Weir. AT/Carter is replacing TH/Weir.:( :mckay:

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 12:56 PM
My guess? Maybe Weir is off to recover from her injuries for awhile and gets promoted or something. She does have an office in the SGC on earth. Maybe Carter being in charge of Atlantis dosent mean shes incharge of wier?

We could have Wier popping in akin to General Laundry in seasons 2&3. Not like wier cant make her generalized orders and oblique narrations from earth over video link.

Comman structure would go Oneill>Landry>Weir>Carter>Sheppard/captain of whatever ship is in pegasus at the time

Like i said, i dont hate it, and it kinda makes sense

It's not going to work like that. Weir is either going to resign or wounded (not "and promoted"),taking backstage as an excuse to get her off screen. What do you mean by Seasons 2&3? 2&3 of what? And, TPTB would never make Carter submit to Weir. Also, as I read from some responses (to which I agree) to the Chicago Tribune report (the one about S4), TPTB are just infactuated w/ AT/Carter and want to see "a pretty face" (which I don't agree with). I say this because for every reason they have given of why Carter should be in Atlantis, there is and has always been someone else to do that particular thing: Take some load off of Rodney's back>Zelenka; Back up Sheppard and his team>Lorne; Lead Atlantis> Dr. Weir. And, to comment on this "new dynamic": there is no new dynamic that Carter can bring. Also, about this "character interaction": For me, at least, I'm not going to watch SGA just for Carter interacting with other characters. Matter of fact, I'm not just going to watch SGA to see Carter. I watch to see the SGA cast, and that includes TH and PM, and in my mind excludes Carter, because I consider her an outsider to SGA.

Night Spring
February 23rd, 2007, 01:01 PM
Also, as I read from some responses (to which I agree) to the Chicago Tribune report (the one about S4), TPTB are just infactuated w/ AT/Carter and want to see "a pretty face" (which I don't agree with). I say this because for every reason they have given of why Carter should be in Atlantis, there is and has always been someone else to do that particular thing: Take some load off of Rodney's back>Zelenka; Back up Sheppard and his team>Lorne; Lead Atlantis> Dr. Weir.
Yup. When they trotted out Jonas when Daniel Jackson returned in S7, the excuse they gave was having two characters who played the same role on the team was redundant. Carter is like redundant times 3.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 01:04 PM
Yup. When they trotted out Jonas when Daniel Jackson returned in S7, the excuse they gave was having two characters who played the same role on the team was redundant. Carter is like redundant times 3.

True. But, of course, when the character is their favorite, they would ignore their own logic.

flynn1959
February 23rd, 2007, 01:06 PM
LOL

Thank you for continuing to be predictable.

And I'm sure you meant to say "Carter has replaced Weir", right? Because otherwise, your comments look decidedly like actor bashing.

At least the other way, while it's an opinion I don't share, it is at least about the characters and not the cast.

You're welcome and right back at you!

And yes, I did mean AT has replaced TH. I thought it was okay to mention the actors talent or lack thereof on this forum. TH is a very talented actress, AT is not. I love TH's portryal of Wier, I hate the way AT plays Carter.

Carter/AT has replaced Weir/TH. In my opinion there is simply no comparision between them, actors or characters.

I have not bashed AT as a person, I have commented on her acting and her ability to replace another actor.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 01:08 PM
You're welcome and right back at you!

And yes, I did mean AT has replaced TH. I thought it was okay to mention the actors talent or lack thereof on this forum. TH is a very talented actress, AT is not. I love TH's portryal of Wier, I hate the way AT plays Carter.

Carter/AT has replaced Weir/TH. In my opinion there is simply no comparision between them, actors or characters.

I have not bashed AT as a person, I have commented on her acting and her ability to replace another actor.

what you are saying is that TH is a much better actress than AT right? And that because of that, among other things, any effort to try to replace TH would be unwise.

flynn1959
February 23rd, 2007, 01:08 PM
True. But, of course, when the character is their favorite, they would ignore their own logic.

They have logic? I am so not getting my memos!

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 01:09 PM
They have logic? I am so not getting my memos!

Well, logic in the sense of recognizing redundacy. Which, mind you, they seem to have forgotten.

akbar56
February 23rd, 2007, 02:21 PM
Cry all you want, but there is NO PROOF that AT/Sam Carter has REPLACED TH/Dr. Weir.

Coincidence only at this point that TH reduced status and addition of AT to the cast are happening at the same time until we hear different.

You people make me sad to be a fan of the show.

Ltcolshepjumper
February 23rd, 2007, 03:02 PM
TPTB make me sad to be a fan of the show. And, its

TH from SGA regular to SGA recurring.
AT from SG-1 regular to SGA regular.

Cameron Mitchel
February 23rd, 2007, 03:23 PM
Cry all you want, but there is NO PROOF that AT/Sam Carter has REPLACED TH/Dr. Weir.

Coincidence only at this point that TH reduced status and addition of AT to the cast are happening at the same time until we hear different.

You people make me sad to be a fan of the show.
yeah, coincidence............please.