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GateWorld
February 7th, 2007, 06:52 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s3/index.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/graphics/307.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">LOST SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s3/index.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">NOT IN PORTLAND</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 307</FONT>
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Jack uses Ben's life on the operating table to try and free Kate and Sawyer, but Juliet has an agenda of her own. When Kate and Sawyer manage to escape, they must find help from one of the Others in order to make it back to their island.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s3/index.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

alaskannut
February 7th, 2007, 11:27 PM
Egads what an ep!!:D

Loved the impact the story had on everyone who was listening...even what's-his-name-Zeke seemed to do a bit of a double take of Jack.

memnarch
February 8th, 2007, 12:26 AM
Indeed. I'm starting to like Tom, a.k.a. Mr. Friendly. I hope we get a backstory on him since he's one of the most mysterious characters on the show, except Ben.

Despite the fact that the action didn't switch to the beach at all it was a really good episode. Juliet's research may have been how Sun got pregnant, if it works by getting a woman pregnant who can't. The story telling was a very powerful moment. It brought Jack and Kate back to the very beginning and I could see Sawyer getting a little jealous. I'm not very sorry to see Pickett go. I've never really understood his dislike of Sawyer.

Ben being Alex's surrogate father was unexpected, although there was some mention of their connection in the fall finale. Did anyone catch what the subliminal message about Jacob said? I ask because Jacob apparently is an Other who compiled a list of the survivors.

Overall, ***1/2 stars for the powerful performances all around and the mini revelations.

sgeureka
February 8th, 2007, 03:22 AM
Wow, four big HUH?! moments in the first two minutes, and a couple more later on. That's what I love LOST for. :D

All of the LOST moments that aired for this ep were mostly from the first 10 minutes, and then one scene shortly before the end (the Kate/Sawyer boat escape scene). Nothing really surprising about the escape in itself.

What I didn't really expect was Juliet's flashbacks to the time before the island, the reason why she's here, why she hasn't left and why the heck she was acting so weird in the first 6 episodes. Makes sense to me ATM, and I don't feel cheated by TPTB. I'd rather have more screentime for the others/not-so-others now, than less.

I loved the Clockwork Orange scene. I watched that movie a couple of days ago because I knew there would be references to that in this ep. I would love to sit down in that room and watch the screen for the whole time. Someone in another forum (http://www.lost-forum.com/showpost.php?p=2121148&postcount=36) has posted screen caps from the video, and I'm still puzzled.

The 3 years, 2 months and 28 days back reference should mean the week(s) around September 11, 2001. Another date is expected to crop up at the end of S3, and I hope TPTB use these cosmic dates wisely.

Can't wait for more.

fammann
February 8th, 2007, 05:29 AM
This was a fantastic ep. Lost is getting better and better.
I liked the clockwork orange stuff. I guess thats how
they condition people.

I'm wondering if Michael was in one of these.

Skydiver
February 8th, 2007, 11:06 AM
i was thinking that juliet's work probably explained sun. she was taken then a few days/weeks/episodes later she was preggers

MarshAngel
February 8th, 2007, 11:40 AM
i was thinking that juliet's work probably explained sun. she was taken then a few days/weeks/episodes later she was preggers

But I thought the problem was with her husband, not her and she lied to him about it?

Skydiver
February 8th, 2007, 02:03 PM
it may be. i can't recall if the issue was jin or sun, but it might have been jin

of course....if the problem is jin, then where did the baby come from?

sgeureka
February 8th, 2007, 02:38 PM
of course....if the problem is jin, then where did the baby come from?Possible implied solution 1.) And why can Locke walk after being in the wheel chair? And why does Rose feel she's no longer ill? Why do wounds heal so fast on the island?

Possible implied solution 2.) Why haven't we seen any biological Others' children on the island? Why are the Others so keen on steeling kids? And why did they bring a fertility doctor on the island for experiments at all (if we can believe Juliet)?

Could be red herrings though, but I doubt it. :)

lunarleviathan
February 8th, 2007, 04:26 PM
After this episode, finding that Juliet was able to induce pregnancy in such a way, Ive formulated a theory that perhaps the island(s) is(are) a testing ground for survival of humanity (or certain people) if there should be some kind of disaster.

Keeping babies coming is a big part. The research into how humans react in certain situations (seemingly what has happened in the DHARMA stations) is important (e.g. what happens if you task a person with a task that must be done indefinitely on a close schedule - the button & timer). The healing of injuries/disabilities?

Sure, there's more to it, but that's my speculation on the purpose of everything - then again nothing in that explains the numbers, the prophecies of crashing on the island, the auto-mated defence system monster, etc.


Awesome episode. It was great to have some background of an Other.

Morbo
February 8th, 2007, 06:34 PM
sun was never taken/captured.

the one time she had the bag put over her head, it was Charlie.

jonno
February 8th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Well, i haven't been a great fan of the Jack/Kate/Sawyer eps at the start of this season (mainly because i much prefer episodes with all the cast in and interacting).

Having said that - this was by far the best of these, and does redeem the point of the opening to the season somewhat in my eyes. Yep - enjoyed it a lot.


Oh and, bizarrely, that was the second mown over by a bus scene i watched in one day :rolleyes:

Nyarlathotep
February 9th, 2007, 01:30 AM
I thought it was implied that Sun had gotten pregnant by that guy she was having the affair with - after all it was revealed that it was Jin who was impotent.

They also have made a big deal about Sun and her lies so this kind of all ties in...

sgeureka
February 9th, 2007, 02:35 PM
Okay, I knew that LOST was a weird show, and that the show's fans might have some mild form of craziness themselves, but what I heard/read about in a LOST forum some minutes ago leads me to wonder whether I'm still too sane for this show.

Lost - Backwards Speech during the Brainwashing scene in Not in Portland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwWhM8Xb_oQ
(This gives a few hints about where they're going in S3 and 4, if you aren't a LOST spoiler freak already.)

And it sounds a little creepy, but it's even creepier that TPTB included this message over and over in there. And that I didn't notice and didn't even think about checking this sequence myself.

ItsDan
February 9th, 2007, 03:38 PM
It was originally said that Sun was the one unable to conceive. It was later revealed in the same episode that it was infact Jin. The doctor was scared of what Jin might do. In the same episode we had reason to believe Sun had been faithful and attributed it to an 'island miracle'.

We learned earlier this season that Sun was infact not faithful to Jin, so it could be either.

pavaneofstars
February 9th, 2007, 08:46 PM
Great ep! Jeeze, that guy getting plowed by the bus - whoa! :eek:

I originally thought Sun's pregnancy was one of the island's "miracles." Now we know Juliet is a fertility specialist. I dunno. I love how I can never figure out this show. :D

FoolishPleasure
February 9th, 2007, 09:39 PM
Okay, I knew that LOST was a weird show, and that the show's fans might have some mild form of craziness themselves, but what I heard/read about in a LOST forum some minutes ago leads me to wonder whether I'm still too sane for this show.

Lost - Backwards Speech during the Brainwashing scene in Not in Portland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwWhM8Xb_oQ
(This gives a few hints about where they're going in S3 and 4, if you aren't a LOST spoiler freak already.)

And it sounds a little creepy, but it's even creepier that TPTB included this message over and over in there. And that I didn't notice and didn't even think about checking this sequence myself.

How weird! Lots of Clockwork Orange issues in that scene. Interesting in that in CO, Alex is the one getting the "treatment", while here Alex is doing the rescuing. ;)

keshou
February 10th, 2007, 05:38 AM
I'm trying to get back into LOST after blowing it off most of last year. I saw the last episode before the break and then this episode.

Sun's pregnant? Didn't know that.

Juliet's backstory was interesting. It was weird that her sister looked like she was getting treatment for cancer or some other illness and yet she was trying to get pregnant with Juliet's big research project. :confused: That's about the last thing I'd be thinking about if I was just recovering from a debilitating treatment for a serious illness.

I find I'm still rather weary of the Kate/Jack/Sawyer triangle - I hope we get back to the other island in the next episode as I'm anxious to see what's going on with the rest of the group.

Wow - I'm going to have to watch out for the next bus I see. It's really quite the deadly weapon these days. ;) :)

:)

ZatNKitel
February 10th, 2007, 03:58 PM
For anyone who's seen the SG-1 S10 episode "Bounty"

A bus comes to run over Juliet's ex-husband on LOST, then a bus comes and runs over Daniel's would-be-assassin on SG-1 all in the same week... coincidence? I think not.

Anyways I thought this episode was a great start for the rest of the season. They really played Juliet back and forth as good and bad - should we pity her or fear her?

Anubis69
February 10th, 2007, 04:12 PM
From the brainwashing video: "God loves you as He loves Jacob"

I really hope The Others don't turn out to be some sort of ridiculous, but incredibly rich, cult... Although, knowing TPTB's fondness for OTT shenanigans, it's pretty unlikely.

SaberBlade
February 10th, 2007, 05:16 PM
This is cool. A Mittelos Bioscience website has been created, and it even includes a passworded section like what they do with Heroes.

If you sign in, you get to see a general map of the area surrounding the island, plus get a video clip released to the episode plus something related to the whole secret part of the island.

http://www.mittelosbioscience.org/projects.html
login: jburke
pass: rachel

The video: http://one.revver.com/watch/165062/flv/affiliate/62101

Overall I thought it was good episode. I keep thinking it's stupid that someone doesn't just say "hey alex, I know your mother". I'm looking forward to the next episode. Can't wait to see the reaction to people returning and what happens to Jack.

sgeureka
February 10th, 2007, 07:09 PM
From the brainwashing video: "God loves you as He loves Jacob"Jacob - as in "Jacob's list".

There were also several other characters in this episode that shared names with Jacob's Genesis crowd - Rachel, Dan(ny), and don't forget Ben. TPTB have already confirmed that there is a connection between the LOST names and the Bible names - but whether they just took the random inspiration from there, or whether they're really going for the cult thing, I can't tell.


This is cool. A Mittelos Bioscience website has been created, and it even includes a passworded section like what they do with Heroes.

If you sign in, you get to see a general map of the area surrounding the island, plus get a video clip released to the episode plus something related to the whole secret part of the island.

http://www.mittelosbioscience.org/projects.html
login: jburke
pass: rachel

The video: http://one.revver.com/watch/165062/flv/affiliate/62101I've been watching the updates for this site here (http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/02/anagram-and-new-site.html). One of TPTB has confirmed that it's a fan site, and the "release" date and the name of the site owner also sound suspiciously like a fan made project. A very well made fan project. With the last update, I no longer know what to think about this. Maybe abc and/or LOST experience-related developers have changed their strategies from last year's, and they just want to please the hardcore LOST crowd by making the experience more "real". :S

MB.Eddie
February 11th, 2007, 03:00 AM
Well quite a lot happened in this ep.

-Kate and Sawyer escape
-We learn that Alex Rousseau is Ben's kid
-Learn that Juliet was a Fertility Doctor and did advanced research
-The Others use brain washing

My favourite line of the ep was:

"Dont get mad at me, just becuase you were dumb enough to fall for the old Wookie prisoner gag"

Funny as hell :lol:

I also like how Jack's story from the first ep came back to help him with the surgery at the end. Well written and acted :jack_new_anime07:

Anonmatel
February 11th, 2007, 03:48 AM
Was i the only one who thought Juliet's Ex husband looked a lot like the character with the eye-patch that Locke and Co. saw in the Pearl.

Look at these two pictures..

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Patchyontv.jpg

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Edmund.jpg

sgeureka
February 11th, 2007, 04:34 AM
Was i the only one who thought Juliet's Ex husband looked a lot like the character with the eye-patch that Locke and Co. saw in the Pearl.

Look at these two pictures..

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Patchyontv.jpg

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Edmund.jpg
1. No, I don't see any similarities.

2. Patchy was played Andrew Divoff, Edmund by Željko Ivanek.

ItsDan
February 11th, 2007, 07:42 AM
Well quite a lot happened in this ep.

-Kate and Sawyer escape
-We learn that Alex Rousseau is Ben's kid
-Learn that Juliet was a Fertility Doctor and did advanced research
-The Others use brain washing


To be fair, we learned that Alex BELIEVES Ben is her father. This is inconsistant with Rousseau's story, that she was pregnant when she arrived on the island, and that her husband was part of her research group, especially when coupled with the fact that Ben state's that he's lived on the island his whole life.

MB.Eddie
February 11th, 2007, 08:06 AM
To be fair, we learned that Alex BELIEVES Ben is her father. This is inconsistant with Rousseau's story, that she was pregnant when she arrived on the island, and that her husband was part of her research group, especially when coupled with the fact that Ben state's that he's lived on the island his whole life.

Good point. I had forgotten those details about Rousseau.

Thermonuclearboy
February 11th, 2007, 08:36 AM
As for someone telling Alex that they've met her mother, think about it. How many individual castaways even know Alex exists? Kate and Sawyer know that there's this girl that helped them, but that's all they know. And really only Claire has even made the connection that Alex is Danielle's child. And really, she may not even be Danielle's Alex at all...

::dramatic music::

Morbo
February 11th, 2007, 05:17 PM
ugh.

Sun did NOT hook up with the other asian dude. he was shamed for adulterating her and that she would not be with him, which is why he killed himself.

Sun is either somehow pregnant by juliets method - OR - more likely - Jin. Because as we have seen the island heals people:
johns legs, rose's cancer, and now Jin's swimmers.

jonno
February 11th, 2007, 08:35 PM
For anyone who's seen the SG-1 S10 episode "Bounty"

A bus comes to run over Juliet's ex-husband on LOST, then a bus comes and runs over Daniel's would-be-assassin on SG-1 all in the same week... coincidence? I think not.

I watched those two scenes within an hour of each other. Freaky. I will be careful whn walking around.

Arga
February 12th, 2007, 04:39 AM
One other important thing we learn is that Juliette (and maybe other "Others" people) were litterally recruted to come to the island. They were chosen for their skills, and not told the whole truth about their new work place. And the recrutor was ready to kill to get the people they wanted. Juliette only want to leave the island, which is like a prison to her.

ItsDan
February 12th, 2007, 05:30 AM
Sun did NOT hook up with the other asian dude. he was shamed for adulterating her and that she would not be with him, which is why he killed himself.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x02-ballerina/1/normal_3x03-ballerina-cap109.jpg

Okay well sure we didn't actually see them going at it like monkeys, but they were kissing while undressed in bed after the sun had risen. I think we can certainly assume there's a rather strong possibility that Jae is the father.

Also I don't understand how people can dismiss Jae as a potential explanation for the pregnancy, given the image above, but then assume Juliette had something to do with it. When did Juliette have time to perform medical treatment on Sun?

sgeureka
February 12th, 2007, 05:55 AM
Sun did NOT hook up with the other asian dude. he was shamed for adulterating her and that she would not be with him, which is why he killed himself.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x02-ballerina/1/normal_3x03-ballerina-cap109.jpg

Okay well sure we didn't actually see them going at it like monkeys, but they were kissing while undressed in bed after the sun had risen. I think we can certainly assume there's a rather strong possibility that Jae is the father.

Also I don't understand how people can dismiss Jae as a potential explanation for the pregnancy, given the image above, but then assume Juliette had something to do with it. When did Juliette have time to perform medical treatment on Sun?The not!hook-up claim was wrong, granted.

But when Sun told Jin about her pregancy, they'd been on the island for about 60 days. Add to that that Jae didn't die the day the plane crashed, i.e. Sun had intercourse with him at least several days, maybe weeks before that. But a female should know after maybe 3 or 4 weeks maximum that there's something going on with her body when she doesn't get her period.

We could attribute stress etc. to natural causes, or Sun waiting to tell Jin (i.e. she's been knowing about the pregancy for a while), or the time distortion theories about the island, but that Jae is the father is IMO a little too out-there.

But then we're talking about LOST here... we'll talk about that after the next Sun/Jin episode... :)

ItsDan
February 12th, 2007, 06:40 AM
How do we know it was day 60 that she did that? I'm always a little fuzzy on the timeframe, but didn't Ben state they'd been on the island for 69 days as of episode 2 or 3 this season? Sun found out she was pregnant in episode 16 of season 2, which was about 18 episodes prior to the 69 day marker.

sgeureka
February 12th, 2007, 07:33 AM
^I use www.lostpedia.com as my reference guide for time. Yes, it's a fan site, but the timeline sounds very reasonable to me.

Ep / Ep number / Days / Ep name
001/I 101 1-2 (September 22, 2004) Pilot, Part 1
002/I 102 2-3 Pilot, Part 2
003/I 103 3-5 Tabula Rasa
004/I 104 6 Walkabout
005/I 105 7 White Rabbit
006/I 106 8 House Of The Rising Sun
007/I 107 9 The Moth
008/I 108 10 Confidence Man
009/I 109 12-13 Solitary
010/I 110 15-16 Raised By Another
011/I 111 16 All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues
012/I 112 21-22 Whatever The Case May Be
013/I 113 24 Hearts And Minds
014/I 114 26-27 Special
015/I 115 27-29 Homecoming
016/I 116 29-31 Outlaws
017/I 117 32-34 ... in Translation
018/I 118 35-36 Numbers
019/I 119 39-41 Deus Ex Machina
020/I 120 41-42 Do No Harm
021/I 121 42 The Great Good
022/I 122 43 Born To Run
023/I 123 44 Exodus, Part 1
024/I 124 44 Exodus, Part 2
025/I 125 44 Exodus, Part 3
026/II 201 44 Man Of Science, Man Of Faith
027/II 202 44-45 Adrift
028/II 203 44-45 Orientation
029/II 204 46 Everybody hates Hugo
030/II 205 47 ... And Found
031/II 206 48 Abandoned
032/II 207 1-48 The Other 48 Days
033/II 208 48 Collision
034/II 209 49 What Kate did
035/II 210 50 The 23rd Psalm
036/II 211 51 The Hunting Party
037/II 212 52-54 Fire + Water
038/II 213 55 The Long Con
039/II 214 56 One Of Them
040/II 215 57 Mutterschutz
041/II 216 58-59 The Whole Truth (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Whole_Truth)
042/II 217 59 Lockdown
043/II 218 60 Dave
044/II 219 61-62 S.O.S.
045/II 220 62-63 Two For The Road
046/II 221 63-64 ?
047/II 222 51-64 Three Minutes
048/II 223 65 Live Together, Die Alone, Part 1
049/II 224 65 Live Together, Die Alone, Part 2
050/III 301 66-67 A Tale Of Two Cities
051/III 302 68-69 (November 29, 2004) The Glass Ballerina
052/III 303 68 Further Instructions
053/III 304 70-71 Every Man For Himself
054/III 305 71-72 The Cost Of Living
055/III 306 72-73 I Do
056/III 307 73 Not In Portland

ItsDan
February 12th, 2007, 07:52 AM
Well, I'm not a pregnancy expert, but a quick google implied that it's not unreasonable that a woman not realize she is pregnant for 8 weeks. Couple that with the reduced nutrition she had on the island for awhile which may have slowed the growth of the child, or that may have masked the early signs, and it's not unreasonable.

But you mentioned the critical fact, that we don't know exactly when the affair with Jae happened. If it was months before the plane then obviously he's not a candidate, if it was a week or two, then perhaps. Remember we also don't know for sure how long she suspected it before taking the test.

Metarock Sam
February 13th, 2007, 11:41 AM
I absoloutely loved this episode a fantastic return from a loooooooong break. We got our first 'Other' flashback with Juliet. Is she good? is she bad? Its so hard to tell and we need to know more !!! There is also the more than welcome return of the brilliant and now slightly chubby Ethan Rom in flashback form of course. We got to see more of the lovely Sheena sorr Alex :P and of course my favourite part of the episode the room 23/clockwork orange section with Karl Strapped to a chair in the room with the funky Drum and Bass music and all the crazy images. Ive got lots of theories on that (which ill post in another thread). Ben woke up in the middle of his operation and we had that whisperd scene between him and Juliet. If anyone can lipread what was said I will love you forever. on top of all of this there is the excitement of Kate and Sawyers escape from Hydra Island ending in the death of Danny Pickett (who saw that coming I thought Sawyer would have killed him). And Juliet letting Kate Sawyer and Karl go but not Alex ??????? This just leaves me craving for more and I welcome the return of the filling of the sunday night void left by Torchwood :D

Clark'sGirl
February 13th, 2007, 03:29 PM
[quote=ZatNKitel;6309992]For anyone who's seen the SG-1 S10 episode "Bounty"

A bus comes to run over Juliet's ex-husband on LOST, then a bus comes and runs over Daniel's would-be-assassin on SG-1 all in the same week... coincidence? I think not.
quote]

And anyone who watched Nip/Tuck on Monday night (UK)

would have seen the same bus related deaths although that one looked a lot more gory Three times the charm .

Be careful out there, follow the green cross code.

Metarock Sam
February 14th, 2007, 11:27 AM
I was watching the episode again last nite and I had a brainwave. What if Rousseau is not who she claims to be but instead was brainwashed in Room 23 to give her those memories ???

lunarleviathan
February 14th, 2007, 06:58 PM
It's kinda lame how obvious it's become now about what the Island(s) is(are) for! The whole concept of new world cults conducting experiments with the goal of either; A. surviving global disaster, or B. mass genocide of the human race, is a tired one that's been featured in countless movies & literature (and prob some TV, although none comes to mind.) There's simply nothing else it could be, unless.. whoever is behind it all is also being watched by someone else for some other purpose.

Oh and, Sun's baby is not the other guys. it's either; A. The islands healing thing has made Jin fertile, but have they had sex while they've been there?, or B. Sun has somehow been made pregnant via processes we now know The Others are capable of.

One annoying thing is that they tried to steal Clair's baby. Why would they want her baby if they can either have kids amongst themselves, or induce pregnancy in people unable to conceive? Perhaps they're trying to broaden their genetic base for a future civilisation?

g8torgurl
February 15th, 2007, 12:18 PM
Also I don't understand how people can dismiss Jae as a potential explanation for the pregnancy, given the image above, but then assume Juliette had something to do with it. When did Juliette have time to perform medical treatment on Sun?

Well, if you remember one of the episodes in season 2, i think it was "The Whole Truth", i could be wrong, well, someone had attacked Sun... That could be when Juliette could have injected it into her... I'll have to re-watch the episode to see if the facts lead up to that properly.

Also, about Danielle and Alex, since Ben is apparently Alex's father, Maybe Ben was Danielle's husband, and she had thought she shot Ben, and thought that all the others were dead... We saw they used brain washing techniques, think about it, they could have made her believe she did all that, and then sent her alone in the woods....

About them trying to steal Claire's baby, as lunarleviathan had said, maybe they knew that with all that's gone on on the island, there was no way her child could be born, so, they felt sorry for her, and tried to make her have a baby via Juliette's methods.... just a thought...

And, when i saw Carl, i thought he looked just a wee bit like Martouf from stargate... anyone else think that?

ItsDan
February 15th, 2007, 12:51 PM
Well, if you remember one of the episodes in season 2, i think it was "The Whole Truth", i could be wrong, well, someone had attacked Sun... That could be when Juliette could have injected it into her... I'll have to re-watch the episode to see if the facts lead up to that properly.

It was The Long Con. That was 2 episodes before Sun knew she was pregnant. Moreover, she was never 'taken', she was dragged maybe 20 yards. And moreover it was CHARLIE who took her, not the others.


Also, about Danielle and Alex, since Ben is apparently Alex's father, Maybe Ben was Danielle's husband, and she had thought she shot Ben, and thought that all the others were dead... We saw they used brain washing techniques, think about it, they could have made her believe she did all that, and then sent her alone in the woods....

Just because Alex believes Ben is her father doesn't mean he is. My assumption was that Ben has 'raised' Alex as his own, or atleast has taken a fatherly interest in Alex. I don't think we have any reason to think Danielle's whole story is some elaborate mind control technique.

mikepbr549
February 16th, 2007, 10:04 AM
It was originally said that Sun was the one unable to conceive. It was later revealed in the same episode that it was infact Jin. The doctor was scared of what Jin might do. In the same episode we had reason to believe Sun had been faithful and attributed it to an 'island miracle'.

We learned earlier this season that Sun was infact not faithful to Jin, so it could be either.


No. Sun was in the process of being unfaithful to Jin, but backed out at the last minute. Her father then interrupted them and she left with him. Sun was apparently telling Jin the truth when she said she had never been unfaithful. She just chose not to share how close she had came.

The most likely scenario is that Jin has been healed by being on the island and is now able to father children.

ItsDan
February 16th, 2007, 11:10 AM
No. Sun was in the process of being unfaithful to Jin, but backed out at the last minute. Her father then interrupted them and she left with him. Sun was apparently telling Jin the truth when she said she had never been unfaithful. She just chose not to share how close she had came.

How are you assuming they hadn't slept together?

ItsDan
February 16th, 2007, 11:54 AM
Okay in fairness and to not be dismissive of your theory I went back to watch the scene again. You're right in that when Jae starts kissing her she says she can't. But up until that second she looks really guilty. It also appears to be morning, like they'd spent the night together.

mikepbr549
February 16th, 2007, 02:46 PM
Okay in fairness and to not be dismissive of your theory I went back to watch the scene again. You're right in that when Jae starts kissing her she says she can't. But up until that second she looks really guilty. It also appears to be morning, like they'd spent the night together.

Based on what TPTB have chosen to share with us about Sun and "the other man", I would say their relationship was "progressing". I don't know what time of day it was when they were in bed together, but it did appear to be daylight outside. That said here are some reasons for the basis of my theory.

1. I can't imagine Jin allowing his wife to be gone overnight.
2. Why would Sun tell Jin the truth about him not being able to conceive, and then lie about being with another man?
3. You don't say "I can't do this" AFTER you already have. You might say "I can't do this anymore", but that's not what she said. Evidently, that was the last time she saw him alive, so there was never an opportunity for "the other man" to change her mind.
4. Assuming Sun was telling Jin the truth, to most logical explantion is that Jin has become fertile. The healing powers of the island have been demonstrated repeatedly.

Just some random thoughts.

ItsDan
February 16th, 2007, 06:53 PM
1. I can't imagine Jin allowing his wife to be gone overnight.
2. Why would Sun tell Jin the truth about him not being able to conceive, and then lie about being with another man?
3. You don't say "I can't do this" AFTER you already have. You might say "I can't do this anymore", but that's not what she said. Evidently, that was the last time she saw him alive, so there was never an opportunity for "the other man" to change her mind.
4. Assuming Sun was telling Jin the truth, to most logical explantion is that Jin has become fertile. The healing powers of the island have been demonstrated repeatedly.

Fair points. To play devil's advocate:

1) Jin may have been working, presumably many of his 'missions' could have been late at night. But yes that is a good point.

2) When Sun told Jin he was the only man she'd been with, she looked away and I immediately felt like she was holding something back or was lying to him. This was in season 2, before we had the season 3 bedroom scene.

3) Okay but lots of things can be implied. Also the way she said 'I'm married' and he shrugged it off as 'oh, that...' seems to me like it was an issue they'd 'dealt with ' before. If it was their first time in bed I doubt he would have been so dismissive about her marriage. If they'd already slept together he may have known it really wasn't that big of a deal to her once she got over her initial hesitance. Also the whole scene is odd if they weren't post-coital when the scene began.

That would imply they removed their clothing, calmly got into bed naked, pulled the sheets up to their shoulders, waited a few moments, and only then did Jae move towards her. I can't imagine most affairs start that way.

My personal take on the situation was that they'd already had sex, perhaps alcohol was involved (I should go back, see if theres a 'champagne bucket' in the room I didn't notice), or perhaps it was just in a moment of passion. The next morning (or just later if it was during the day) when Sun's blood wasn't boiling anymore she felt guilty and began to think about her marriage. The 'this' she referred to when she said "I can't do this" was the affair as a whole, not sex in general.


4. Yes exactly. That's certainly a likely scenario considering what we've seen. The timeline is a little odd, her and Jin weren't getting along when they got to the island, it wasn't really until the end of season 1 that they were close again. How long is that? A couple weeks in show time? It's possible she'd feel pregnant in that timeframe, but many women wouldn't.

I also like to stay atleast a little sceptical about the medical miracles on the island. To review:

-Locke's legs are healed! Well, except we don't know how he got into the wheel chair. If he was hit by a car I think people will be upset considering how long we've been waiting to find out. There is of course the possibility it was all in his head. I think thats partially reinforced by the fact that Locke has temporarily lost the use of his legs when he doubted himself.

-Rose's brain tumor is gone! Well assuming she ever had one, assuming she a) told the truth and b) wasn't misdiagnosed. Oh and even if she DID have one, how do we know it's gone? We have only her 'feeling' on it.

-Sun is pregnant! Well of course she had opportunity if nothing else to have an affair. Even if you don't personally think she did, it's still possible.

Am I missing any? Also consider all the people who weren't healed, so it isn't a universal effect. I personally DO believe the healing is happening, but I also notice all the major ones seem to have more rational explanations.

SaberBlade
February 16th, 2007, 08:00 PM
-Locke's legs are healed! Well, except we don't know how he got into the wheel chair. If he was hit by a car I think people will be upset considering how long we've been waiting to find out. There is of course the possibility it was all in his head. I think thats partially reinforced by the fact that Locke has temporarily lost the use of his legs when he doubted himself.

If anything, he suffered a proper accident. He may be able to walk, however it doesn't appear as if he can feel pain in legs, if he's got any sensation in them at all.

--

Overall I don't think you are missing anything, but Locke seems to be the only real proof there is some sort of healing ability on the island, perhaps with the exception of how Charlie was able to recover from his addiction fairly quickly but as you stated, there are other explanations as to how others could have been healed if they had injuries (minus Locke, who does seem to have a proper problem).

I also do believe that the healing can happen, and that it does have a somewhat powerful if unpredictable effect. Rose was supposed to have been cured from cancer in pretty much instantly (along with Locke), yet Ben's own tumour were something that needed to be removed by surgery and he's been on the island all his life. The whole idea of univeral and unlimited healing potential would just removes something from the show, because have such a force on the island would remove a lot of the danger, and it would also make injuries a lot less serious.

In the end, people who've been injured yet able to survive for a short time should have a better chance of healing if it was something affecting everyone. Boone, Shannon and Libby all survived for a short time after being injuried, yet still died instead of an powerful force healing them