GLB Characters

[Lethe]

This was a "problem" that plagued the Star Trek franchise (and science-fiction in general) for decades. The strange absence of gay, lesbian and bisexual characters is something that, for some reason, has disturbed and even aggravated me.

Science-fiction actively deals with a host of social issues in ways that do not press people's buttons. We've dealt with sexism, racism, ageism, disabilities, and religious bigotry. Season Nine and Ten of SG-1 spend quite a bit of time having very interesting dialogues about religion, spirituality and philosophy.

But it's almost as though gays, lesbians and bisexuals have no place in the genre. Now, something that is often said is, "well, how do you know that certain supporting character or villains aren't gay?" That's a very good point, we do not; but we do know who is heterosexual. We know it very well.

I'm sure that someone is inevitably going to bring up the subtle "hints" and jokes that are made throughout various series, but I'm afraid those do not cut it. Whispering and hinting and joking about it is just irritating.

Another reason why we have this absence that is given is that perhaps our culture just isn't "ready" for it yet. That's simply not true. How many other series (in other genres) have had gay, lesbian or bisexual characters? If that doesn't do it for you, then consider that if "blacks" had waited for "whites" to be ready for the civil rights movement, then we would be living in a very different twenty-first century.

I also am not proposing that we have terribly annoying, obviously gay characters. That just wouldn't work. I mean ... why can we not have a likable recurring character, or characters who are completely ordinary within the context of the series who happen to have a relationship with someone of the same gender?

SG-1 may be over for us (I'm still in mourning), but perhaps Atlantis holds some hope. Who's to say that the Ancients had more evolved or enlightened romantic relationships that don't hinge on boinking, but on actually enjoying one another in a loving way and so happens to sometimes involve two members of the same gender?

If science-fiction, as a genre, is going to continue to claim to deal with and push the boundaries of social issues, then it must deal with the topic of human sexuality. I know that there are many writers and actors pushing for it. It just needs to actually happen.

Thank you for tolerating my attempt at a passionate argument.

[smushybird]

I agree with you. The time has come. But I'm not getting my hopes up that it'll happen on Atlantis. The SGA writers have proven they can write macho guys running around with guns and making things explode. They can also write brainy scientists upon occasion, but unfortunately fall into the juvenile male syndrome of using the brainy geeky guys as the butt of everyone's joke.

They have not yet proven they can write strong female characters. One or two of the writers have shown at least a talent for writing meaningful, emotional stories, but those stories are few and far between, as of Season 3.
And we're hoping they can write a realistic, believable, non-joke, non-flamey gay male character? Or lesbian character?

Maybe on Stargate's new third series...if they assemble a topnotch, creative, courageous, gender-mixed writing team. A team that won't be intimidated by sponsors and red state hate-mongers. And the show will need producers who won't be scared ******** of sponsors, rshm, and most of all, the teenage male audience that they fondly imagine are the only people in the entire world devoted to Stargate... (despite the number of women and people-older-than-18 who post here, not to mention the rampant slashfic pouring out of every corner of the internet, a huge huge huge amount of it unabashed Stargate slash).

Maybe then.

But I'm not holding my breath.

[Lethe]

An excellent post, thank you smushybird.

[QUOTE=smushybird;6266740]I agree with you. The time has come. But I'm not getting my hopes up that it'll happen on Atlantis. The SGA writers have proven they can write macho guys running around with guns and making things explode. They can also write brainy scientists upon occasion, but unfortunately fall into the juvenile male syndrome of using the brainy geeky guys as the butt of everyone's joke.

They have not yet proven they can write strong female characters. One or two of the writers have shown at least a talent for writing meaningful, emotional stories, but those stories are few and far between, as of Season 3.

And we're hoping they can write a realistic, believable, non-joke, non-flamey gay male character? Or lesbian character?

Ah, excellent point there. Perhaps it would be like asking the fox to guard the chicken coup.

Maybe on Stargate's new third series...if they assemble a topnotch, creative, courageous, gender-mixed writing team. A team that won't be intimidated by sponsors and red state hate-mongers. And the show will need producers who won't be scared ******** of sponsors, rshm, and most of all, the teenage male audience that they fondly imagine are the only people in the entire world devoted to Stargate... (despite the number of women and people-older-than-18 who post here, not to mention the rampant slashfic pouring out of every corner of the internet, a huge huge huge amount of it unabashed Stargate slash).

Maybe then.

But I'm not holding my breath.

I think that's sensible, and it's caused me to re-evaluate this issue as far as this franchise goes. I really would like to see a series that claims to be sci-fi to undertake other social issues, but seeing it done well would require someone who knew how to write it and not botch it. Yes, perhaps with the third series, perhaps never with this franchise.

I'm hesitant to hope, but I can't help it.

[Falcon Horus]

Well, I must say I agree to all things pointed out by you, Lethe, but like Smushybird I'm not holding my breath on the matter.

Spoiler for Sunday...

Spoiler:

There is some sort of acknowledgement that the world of Stargate isn't totally straight when Sheppard asks Ronon in a conversation if he is seeing anyone, and he mentions both female and male specie in his question.

[Lethe]

Goodness me! Are you serious about that spoiler? If it happens then ... well, I will be surprised, impressed, delighted, and other adjectives.

[Falcon Horus]

Goodness me! Are you serious about that spoiler? If it happens then ... well, I will be surprised, impressed, delighted, and other adjectives.

Yup. I had to admit I had to do a double take but it's truly there.

[Commander Ivanova]

Yes, it's there and it's quite nicely done but it's just a throwaway remark really.

You're right about the complete absence of GLB characters on the screen (not counting fanfiction and all the rampant slashing that goes on in other threads on this forum).

And yes, it's about time and I think we're ready for it. I can't imagine why TPTB couldn't write in tiny subplot about one or more gay characters. What have they got to lose?

For anyone who hasn't seen it, I recommend Torchwood, the Doctor Who spinoff in the UK on the BBC. The main character is bi and acts it, though he clearly prefers men. It's sci fi with a leading gay character, and the sky hasn't fallen in on our heads yet. Take note, Stargate.

[Willow'sCat]

Yes, it's there and it's quite nicely done but it's just a throwaway remark really.

Very throwaway, and something I refuse to be grateful they even dropped in. If this is their idea of "inclusion" they have a lot to learn.

The other thing that annoys, SGA for the most part is screened after 9.30, now surely that means they can have more 'adult/grown-up' content? So why don't they? SGA is beginning to look like a children's show, really what is in it that is aimed at a mature audience? Hell I would say Doctor Who is more mature then SGA.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, I recommend Torchwood, the Doctor Who spinoff in the UK on the BBC. The main character is bi and acts it, though he clearly prefers men. It's sci fi with a leading gay character, and the sky hasn't fallen in on our heads yet. Take note, Stargate.

Well even RTD had to go with calling Jack omnisexual but whatever he is "with" both genders *looks at current avatar* and aliens/humans alike! And you are right the sky didn't fall but then it is the UK and as far as I am concerned no country does better at pushing the envelope then the UK (without actually seeming to push the envelope... it is never a huge deal, the US could only but learn).

[Lethe]

Yup. I had to admit I had to do a double take but it's truly there.

That's wonderful! I can't wait to see it!

? ? ? ? ?

Yes, it's there and it's quite nicely done but it's just a throwaway remark really.

You're right about the complete absence of GLB characters on the screen (not counting fanfiction and all the rampant slashing that goes on in other threads on this forum).

And yes, it's about time and I think we're ready for it. I can't imagine why TPTB couldn't write in tiny subplot about one or more gay characters. What have they got to lose?

For anyone who hasn't seen it, I recommend Torchwood, the Doctor Who spinoff in the UK on the BBC. The main character is bi and acts it, though he clearly prefers men. It's sci fi with a leading gay character, and the sky hasn't fallen in on our heads yet. Take note, Stargate.

Thank you for the recommendation! I'm definately going to begin searching for it. I love Doctor Who, so a spinoff series is right up some alley of mine. This is thrilling news.

? ? ? ? ?

Very throwaway, and something I refuse to be grateful they even dropped in. If this is their idea of "inclusion" they have a lot to learn.

I agree, though I can't help but suspect that this, following the kiss between Dr. McKay and Dr. Beckett may have been the writers "testing the waters". But unless they actually go somewhere with it, unless there is inclusion, then it's just unsatisfying scraps.

Well even RTD had to go with calling Jack omnisexual but whatever he is "with" both genders *looks at current avatar* and aliens/humans alike! And you are right the sky didn't fall but then it is the UK and as far as I am concerned no country does better at pushing the envelope then the UK (without actually seeming to push the envelope... it is never a huge deal, the US could only but learn).

I agree. Canada could learn a thing or two as well - we have our stamp on everything from Andromeda to Earth Final Conflict (okay, bad example because they're both by Roddenberry, but you get my point).

[Commander Ivanova]

Don't get too excited about Shep's comment, Lethe. It's really only a tiny nod towards the possibility of non-het relationships. But better than nothing I suppose.

[Falcon Horus]

I agree, though I can't help but suspect that this, following the kiss between Dr. McKay and Dr. Beckett may have been the writers "testing the waters". But unless they actually go somewhere with it, unless there is inclusion, then it's just unsatisfying scraps.

I don't count the kiss between McKay and Beckett because there's clear indication it's in fact Cadman and Beckett kissing. I think that's what TPTB knew and they figured the audience would also know that. Of course, we all see what we like to see.

[Willow'sCat]

Don't get too excited about Shep's comment, Lethe. It's really only a tiny nod towards the possibility of non-het relationships. But better than nothing I suppose.

I don't even see it as that.

And it was also odd because as they said Ronon has been there for over a year and a half but

Spoiler:

only now is Sheppard learning about Ronon's kind of wife? And Ronon about Sheppard's ex-wife.

I know they are guys but come on all those hours in the PJ all those missions all the so-called Team moments and these two don't talk about past relationships! There guys so surely talking about sex *you know what I mean* is a given but hey they don't mention the actual women they have had the sex with? Oh right they're guys.

I don't know if the writers can't make even the het stuff seem like it fits in a normal conversation on this show what hope is there really for anything else?

I also agree the Duet thing was not gay, well maybe in one sense.

[Commander Ivanova]

I also agree the Duet thing was not gay, well maybe in one sense.

LOL! Good point(s).

[resurgamlaura]

Unfortunately, until they stop aiming sci-fi at fourteen year old boys, the genre will refuse to grow up and get realistic about these things. It's a matter of audience. Joss Whedon thought his audience could handle a sweet, blossoming and sensual relationship between two young women and to a certain extent he was right. It was lovely and it felt real and more romantic than the usual cliched romances. Also, the situation in the US regarding gay rights is far from over. When its in a drama like QAF, where those who find it objectionable can stay well clear, than apparently thats fine. But when it appears in a genre like sci-fi...heaven forbid...
I mean, in the UK it wasn't just Torchwood. Even Doctor Who, which is aimed at children made Jack's sexuality clear in the episodes he did with them, but in a subtle, nice way.

[Agent_Dark]

I don't count the kiss between McKay and Beckett because there's clear indication it's in fact Cadman and Beckett kissing. I think that's what TPTB knew and they figured the audience would also know that. Of course, we all see what we like to see.

Well in that case, you realise Cadman kissed Katie Brown then?