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View Full Version : The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.



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Gregorius
January 14th, 2007, 12:57 PM
I don't know if this thread exists yet - if it does then the mods can merge or something - but considering the recent discoveries about Atlantis Season 4 I think it's time for the Anti-Season 4 thread.

As far as we know there will be a lot of changes in the Atlantis cast:
- Weir becomming recurring (Or in TPTB language: 1 ep then forget it)
- Beckett being shipped off.
- A new doctor.
- Sam Carter in 14 eps.

I think this trend of changes is rather worry some and due to the show starting to decline in overall quality since season 2 (The bad choices season) and the rather mediocre first part of season 3 (The Sheppard and McKay show), I think it's for the best if the shows ends with season 3 if the current PTB remain in charge.

gatelover12
January 14th, 2007, 01:03 PM
These cast changes show that the only people left who had faith in TPTB, themselves, have realized that the inevitable is upon them. It's a last ditch effort to turn Atlantis into a new show, instead of having to fix it. An attempt that's destined to fail.

ToasterOnFire
January 14th, 2007, 01:06 PM
Honestly, when I first heard that Carson was leaving and Jewel's character was replacing him I was disappointed but still thinking overall positive thoughts about s4.

Now that I hear that Torri Higginson is going to be demoted to recurring and Amanda Tapping will be on not 4 eps but 14 next season I'm much more negative about the upcoming season. Having Carter on for 4 eps would have been manageable for me, but 14 episodes just screams 'Hey, let's turn the show into SG1: Atlantis!' Boo PTB, boo.

This all follows the trend of PTB removing or minimizing characters that they obviously have no idea/desire to write for (Ford and now Carson and Elizabeth). That's poor writing and management, my friends. How utterly embarrassing that we know so little about almost all the characters after 50+ episodes of the show.

After all the casting changes and demotions are said and done, I'll be completely surprised if this show gets renewed for another season. TPTB have dug themselves one hell of a hole and I have little confidence that they can get themselves out. :mckay:

CalmStorm
January 14th, 2007, 01:16 PM
I've never participated in an anti-season thread. However, the actions of TPTB have dimmed my views of "their" show. It's certainly not one aimed at the fans.

At the moment, I don't have a very positive view of what is to come in Season 4. I don't care how phenomenal or well-done an episode is if it results in the loss of main cast members. Nor do I care for the "recurring" status. We all saw first hand what "recurring" meant for Franks/Ford. We saw the excitement expressed by TPTB and what a great thing this was going to be for Franks and his character. Now they express that same optimism with the latest news of cast departures. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

I watch a show for the characters and their development. I expect good story development too. Neither is happening with SGA. The characters are reset at the start of each new episode. The story just isn't progressing. The characters are being axed slowly but surely. How does this trend equate to quality entertainment?

Luz
January 14th, 2007, 01:39 PM
After I heard about Carson I thought tptb couldn't be so dumb as to replace such a beloved character. When it was confrimed I decided to still give the show a chance.
But now upon hearing thatCarter will be in fourteen episodes, and that Weir (my favorite character on the show) is going to be demoted to recurring.

I can't watch this show anymore, too many sweeping changes in too short a period of time, this isn't the show I started watching, this is some freaking screwed up hybrid, I'm so pissed, like you have no idea, this is what I was afraid was going to happen, and now it's happening and the show is most probably going to get cancelled in season four, but I no longer care.

Gregorius
January 14th, 2007, 02:50 PM
I think the real problem here is that the current PTB, and especially M&M and RC, have developed this feeling that they can sacrifice anything, do anything and people will still like it. I think these recent announcements just make it clear that the PTB are out of ideas and rather have their shows canceled than handing it over to others.

Besides of that, as was said here earlier, after 3 seasons the only characters we know a bit about are Sheppard and McKay. What character development have the other characters gotten after season 1? We know basicly nothing about Beckett, Weir, Teyla and Ronon. The only time a character, besides the golden duo, got developed a bit was when Ford was written out. Suddenly we know about his family, about what drives Ford and how much he's willing to risk to make his plans succeed.

And now they're axing Beckett and Weir, and replacing them with Sam? What's next Daniel, Vala and Cambo there as well so they can replace Teyla and Ronon? So TPTB can write a show with only scences between Carter - McKay, Sheppard - Cambo/McKay, Daniel - Vala?

Furthermore, why is Sam needed on Atlantis? I really don't get this change, because they have McKay on Atlantis already as the resident supergenius and if McKay can't solve it Sheppard also posses a genius level intellect. Why is a third genius needed? If they'd send in Daniel I could've understood, he's an expert on the Ancients, but Carter? It basicly implies that they're too lazy to write backgrounds on the other regulars, besides the golden duo, and so they kick them out and add an established character as to make their writing easier.

And on the same note, what will they do with their current wallpaper Ronon and Teyla? Will those two get treated as Teal'c and Sam are treated on SG-1 now; wallpaper unless needed to further the plot?

I think, and I've stated this before, that the best thing for the entire Stargate Franchise is that the current PTB leave and a new showrunner + writers gets installed - Anyone remember how the quality of ST: Enterprise suddenly increased when the power over the series was largely taken away from B&B and given to a new writer (I believe he was called Manni Coto?) - because when people get to run a franchise too long, and they don't have a vision of what's going to have to happen next to keep thr franchise vital, they will get too comfortable in their seats and get too convident in their abilities which in turn will result in the destruction of a franchise.

jonno
January 14th, 2007, 04:08 PM
First off - i presume you can be anti but still watch? Sorry, but i normally avoid the pro and anti threads ... i'll be watching still because i want to know who things turn out, and because it might surprise me.

I have to say, i'm majorly dissappointed with all these cast changes - in both shows atm, the meaty scenes only ever go to Shep, Rodney, Mitchell, Vala/Vaniel. The others who they have to think how to write, and apparently can't develop get side-lined, and now they're bringing in new characters to replace them? B'ah.

I've said it elsewhere - just because your writers can't come up with stuff for a character, it doesn't mean you dump the character. No - you dump the writer.

Of course, it's possible that it'll all work, and it'll be brilliant. But i'd still rather it be brilliant with Atlantis' proper cast

Gregorius
January 14th, 2007, 04:19 PM
First off - i presume you can be anti but still watch? Sorry, but i normally avoid the pro and anti threads ... i'll be watching still because i want to know who things turn out, and because it might surprise me.

Of course you can. At lot of people in the anti threads still watch the show and use the anti-threads to talk about why the shows are declining.



I've said it elsewhere - just because your writers can't come up with stuff for a character, it doesn't mean you dump the character. No - you dump the writer.

And that the problem when you have a group that's been working with each other for years, they cover each other's backs instead of taking responsibility and lose the writers/directors who don't deliver quality.

jonno
January 14th, 2007, 04:26 PM
And that the problem when you have a group that's been working with each other for years, they cover each other's backs instead of taking responsibility and lose the writers/directors who don't deliver quality.

Indeed. Also - the same set of people can only have a limited number of ideas - or ones that they like. So whilst they may try and avoid copything themselves over and over again, they'll fail - they'll go back to what works in their eyes. IMO, since about Season 7 of SG-1 (not to include S1 of Atlantis, which was fresh and new, and GOOD), you've slowly began to see more and more cracks in the lining in terms of storyline and the writing of characters and plots.

You need to cycle - keep a set few of course, but bring in new blood ... to get new perspectives and fresh ideas - to break up the current set, which has become too cozy with each other.

It's not that i don't still enjoy lots of what they produce, it's that i have to mentally paper over the cracks i see in it - even in the good stuff.

Jackie
January 14th, 2007, 06:48 PM
Forgot about Colonel Caldwell and his ship.

The Apollo comes with a NEW CO.

cshawzye
January 14th, 2007, 07:27 PM
I really like Atlantis and I wish I didn't have all the misgivings that I do about the upcoming season. I realize it's TPTB's show and they can do what they want with it ... but the way it's going right now I just can't see it being a good direction for the show. And after seeing all the new information that's coming out and reading this new interview (http://gateworld.net/news/2007/01/flanigan_hints_at_new_direction_.shtml) with Joe Flanigan that's posted on GW main page ... I just have to shake my head. I don't understand what the need of the "shake up" is and it all has me seriously concerned for the future of the show.

starfox
January 14th, 2007, 09:50 PM
My biggest problem is with Sam coming to Atlantis.

I've been watching SG-1 since the 7th season, and thanks to re-runs I've seen nearly every episode of that show ever aired. Sam just...fails to interest me. She's a Girl Scout, she's the Prom Queen. Her flaws are all overlooked. There's nothing deep with the character, nothing to keep me interested. She's smart and pretty and...zzzzz. Oh, sorry, was I supposed to be paying attention?

Then there's the fact that whenever you put Carter and McKay in the same room, Carter has to win. I hate that. I like McKay; I like to see him come out on top, and I think that the appearance of Carter is going to be a step backwards in his character development. It'll be back to "hey everyone, let's laugh at McKay!"

Carter doesn't fail enough, or rather, she doesn't get called out for failing enough. She screws up, and no one cares. That's the way it goes with SG-1, but it's not the way it goes with Atlantis. Atlantis is the Island of Misfit Toys (and I'm blatantly stealing that comparison from a fanfic). It's characters are fantastically flawed and close to each other; they have a chemistry that Carter just doesn't fit into. Yes, she makes sense in a practical sense (because of the combination of military and scientific knowledge), but from a character point of view and a story point of view? Heavy involvement for her character in Atlantis is sheer stupidity.

I'm just hoping they're not dumb enough to try and replace Liz with Carter, as some fans have suggested.

I'm upset at Carson's departure, but I'll be able to survive it. If they bring him back eventually. I love Jewel, but I want Paul to stay.

As for Torri's demotion? I'm waiting for TPTB to make an official announcement and an explanation. It's a dumb move, but I want more information before I say anything about it.

I'm getting one of my chem major friends to figure out a way to force a package to combust upon opening, so I can just go ahead and send TPTB a flaming bag of crap. 'Cause that's what all these cast changes are; a flaming bag of crap.

Sweetsong
January 14th, 2007, 10:06 PM
In the regular off world episodes, Weir doesn't get that much air time anyways. She is the one who stays at home and gives the orders, so I don't see a problem with her being recurring.

I understand there are lots of Weir fans here that love seeing her small parts in each episodes when Shepard returns to Atlantis to let her know what's up on off world planet X. I think she's a great character as well but she doesn't get to have as much fun as the other characters who get to go offworld more.

I have to agree that I don't see the need to have Carter in almost the entire 4th season. I love the episodes when they pit her and Mckay against each other. I didn't realize until recently that I actually like Mckay's character better than Carters'.

Sure they can both save the day when lives are at stake, but Mckay will whine about it and it's always so funny, whereas Sam will be so serious about it, that it took playing her off characters like RDA to make her funny. Mckay can be funny on his own.

I can't really place judgement until I see how they will incorporate the new characters in season 4, maybe it will work maybe it wont. But who are we to really decide how things will turn out now?

FallenAngelII
January 14th, 2007, 10:09 PM
It's not the quantity of screen-time that matters, it's the quality of screen time. Teyla gets a lot of screen-time but it's mostly spent running, standing around and saying random lines that don't really contribute much.

And the only reason we can see for sidelining Elizabeth would be for giving Sam a lot more space, a solution which is, well, rather stupid.

Gregorius
January 15th, 2007, 12:01 AM
Indeed. Also - the same set of people can only have a limited number of ideas - or ones that they like. So whilst they may try and avoid copything themselves over and over again, they'll fail - they'll go back to what works in their eyes. IMO, since about Season 7 of SG-1 (not to include S1 of Atlantis, which was fresh and new, and GOOD), you've slowly began to see more and more cracks in the lining in terms of storyline and the writing of characters and plots.

The sad thing is that they were capable of producing 6 good seasons of SG-1 but only one good season for SGA, because the second season of SGA was mediocre at best and the third season of SGA is rehash united.


You need to cycle - keep a set few of course, but bring in new blood ... to get new perspectives and fresh ideas - to break up the current set, which has become too cozy with each other.

Indeed there is too much of a friends atmosphere over ar Bridge, it's like they never stop to look at each other's ideas and simply assume it's allright. Also there isn't a clear vision of what has to happen in a season, it's like they all are showrunners at the same time and everyone has (or rather lacks) a vision of what has to become of the shows.

[email protected] are like a ship without a captain and a clear goal where almost everyone seems to think they are the captain. Just take the decision to make M&M showrunners of Atlantis for example: By what logic do you make the people who are consistently writing the worst episodes on both shows for the past two seasons showrunners for the only show you still have airing? If anyone at MGM has some backbone left they should simply go to [email protected] and appoint a new showrunner and a few new writers which aren't from the [email protected] pool and have proven themselves to be capable of writing and giving direction to a show (I believe Joss Whedon and JMS are free?).


It's not that i don't still enjoy lots of what they produce, it's that i have to mentally paper over the cracks i see in it - even in the good stuff.

Same here and that goes especially for the recent usage of "Deus ex Machina" solutions and the poor skills in leadership, tactics and strategics the, supposedly, best of the best in the SG universe seem to have these days.


In the regular off world episodes, Weir doesn't get that much air time anyways. She is the one who stays at home and gives the orders, so I don't see a problem with her being recurring.

Neither was Hammond, yet he was a regular and he had more character development in the first 3 seasons of SG-1 than Weir has ever had in both SG-1 and Atlantis and I think FallenAngelII said it best:


It's not the quantity of screen-time that matters, it's the quality of screen time.

RealmOfX
January 15th, 2007, 12:52 AM
I just wandered in to say hi and reserve myself a spot. I'm currently in wait and see mode but the more info we get the less hopeful about S4 I get. :(

LOL yeah Joss Whedon or JMS would be good (but JMS has too many irons in the fire at the moment I think) or maybe they could steal Manny Coto from 24 as I liked some of his earlier works.

There is a lot of talent both in front of and behind the cameras but as has been mentioned I think they are lacking in the leadership area. So now it is M&M's turn to lead - OK they get a chance to show us what they've got but if it's more of the same then I think the franchise is doomed.

silence
January 15th, 2007, 02:07 AM
And the only reason we can see for sidelining Elizabeth would be for giving Sam a lot more space, a solution which is, well, rather stupid.

Agreed. I actually don't like Sam that much and i am less then happy about seeing her in 14 eps of SGA. Another reason is that i suspect M&M will use her to make "funny" eps / lines with McKay (which might work ONCE in season, not whole season). Given the delights M&M gave us on SGA and how they see humor on SGA (i won't even mention "those" eps by name) i have little hope for S4.

McKay is scientist on SGA and one of two characters that TPTB managed to give some life and now they'll prolly use Sam to poke fun of him, remove Weir and we lost Carson ... add Caldwell and beloved Deadalus that are also sidelined and that is _NOT_ Stargate: Atlantis, they could easily do this as new spin-off - i read what JF said in interview and i am scared about this rset button and all he mentioned.



URGHHH... this day can't get any worse.

CalmStorm
January 15th, 2007, 04:10 AM
- i read what JF said in interview and i am scared about this rset button and all he mentioned.


They hit the reset button with each new episode. It is a bit disconcerting for an actual admission of that from the lead of the show. It also sounds like the same stuff they spew all the time at the season and mid-season breaks. They always talk about "shaking" things up, and to me, it always comes off sounding negative.

Yes, Weir doesn't always have good screen time and Teyla gets plenty of screen time with very little to do. I feel they should fix this by actually being creative and finding ways to better incorporate these characters, not give them the boot, or demote their status. Demoting them is an easy out for the writers in my opinion.

Fan fiction is what it is, but I have read plenty of good fan fiction that manages to incorporate all the characters. I've read plenty o fan fiction that keeps completely in line with the characters and would be wonderful episodes. If amateurs can do it, and the same authors can do it on a consistent basis, why can't the pros?

Freekzilla
January 15th, 2007, 04:15 AM
You know, if I had done anything as drastic as TPTB have done this year, my parents would have accused me of smoking crack. And to which my father would have said that he could cure this by putting his foot in my ass.

To the PTB, are you guys on drugs? Would it help straighten you out if we the fans collectively put our foots in your behinds'?

Seriously, what the heck is going on over there? In two short years we've gone from a stable franchise that can handle changes in stride to taking a face plant into utter chaos!!!! Are they trying to kill SGA?

Sweetsong
January 15th, 2007, 07:56 AM
It's not the quantity of screen-time that matters, it's the quality of screen time. Teyla gets a lot of screen-time but it's mostly spent running, standing around and saying random lines that don't really contribute much.

I think we'd all agree that not only is this science fiction, but it's an action adventure genre. Teyla can fight and defend herself. Weir at best is only a damsel in distress. Only fight scene we saw with Wier was in "The Long Goodbye" where it wasn't even her but an alien entity controlling her.

Long story short, Weir's scenes can be boring and ultimately will be cut short because she is not an action character unless she's in an argument with someone if that counts. I"m not trying to dumb down Weir's importance,it's just the way I see it.

ToasterOnFire
January 15th, 2007, 09:03 AM
Weir's role could have been more important if TPTB had tied her more to Atlantis. She could have had more B plots where she was kept informed and made decisions about the exploration and findings of the city. So an episode could still be A plot: "all about the team offworld" but incorporate B plot: "Zelenka and crew discover X about Atlantis and Weir has to deal with the problem or make a decision about the finding." Or TPTB could have written in an arc where there was tension between the scientists and military and how Weir dealt with that. Or Weir dealing with the IOA or meeting and negotiating with possible new PG allies. So many ways they could have brought in both Weir and Atlantis without stepping on the toes of "Shep's mighty offworld team."

But alas, TPTB don't seem all that interested in exploring or talking about Atlantis. You know, that big thing that the show is named after and what differentiates it from SG1. It's kinda like what TPTB did to SG1 - in season 9 and 10 it became less about the Stargate, the major technological discovery and title of the show, and more about big honkin' spaceships and teleporters. :mckay:

CalmStorm
January 15th, 2007, 09:27 AM
Weir's role could have been more important if TPTB had tied her more to Atlantis. She could have had more B plots where she was kept informed and made decisions about the exploration and findings of the city. So an episode could still be A plot: "all about the team offworld" but incorporate B plot: "Zelenka and crew discover X about Atlantis and Weir has to deal with the problem or make a decision about the finding." Or TPTB could have written in an arc where there was tension between the scientists and military and how Weir dealt with that. Or Weir dealing with the IOA or meeting and negotiating with possible new PG allies. So many ways they could have brought in both Weir and Atlantis without stepping on the toes of "Shep's mighty offworld team."



There are so many opportunities to be inclusive of the entire cast. You've pointed out a good number of possibilities, and they are suggestions I would love to see implemented. TPTB have lost the creative ability to make it happen, or simply don't care, it's hard to tell what it is these days.

If they were able to incorporate the entire cast they have now, I would be ecstatic about the upcoming season. If they had come out with the news that all the cast is going to get real development, that all the cast is going to be utilized I would be excited. However, instead, what we get is more cast getting the boot or getting demoted, talks about reset buttons, and shake-ups. How am I as a fan, suppose to be excited by an upcoming season when the main cast are dropping like flies? How am I as a fan, suppose to feel about the remaining cast, knowing that at anytime another is more than likely on the chopping block?

Merlin7
January 15th, 2007, 10:05 AM
I have to say, I'm anti the changes. I love Beckett. I'm not a huge Weir fan by any means, but she's the head of Atlantis and I like the dynamics of that, with Shep as head of Military and so on, the way they are. Season 3 brought them all together as a family.

As for Sam on Atlantis? I HATE SAM CARTER! I stopped watching SG1 in season one because I can't stand her. So having her on SGA for all those eps just kills it for me. Because of TPTB love for Sam and Rodney, I forsee the Sam/Rodney hour and I'll end up hating the show I want to love. I watch for Sheppard, and only Sheppard, but I loved the team feel of this season and Carter in SGA and the other's dropped back/gone just kills that.

I wanted to love season 4, but I doubt even Shep being there can save it.

I hated when Sam's been on SGA in the past. Hated GUP hated that other moment. Hated.

SGA is SGA. SG1 characters don't belong there. Thanks PTB for ruining the show I loved and lying to us fans. SGA has never been allowed to stand on it's own. YOU ALL SUCK!

kimyroo
January 15th, 2007, 10:26 AM
I havn't had time to read all your posts, but i sure will later! And its just suddenly clicked why Weir will become a recurring character... because Carter is coming over. Don't get me wrong, i do like her, its just... leave Atlantis alone!!

And as for Carson... well what do i say? TPTB are making some really bad decisions and are going to loose a lot of viewers i think, including me.

:sam: :weiranime34:
:weir: :beckett: :mckayanime09:

FoolishPleasure
January 15th, 2007, 10:49 AM
But alas, TPTB don't seem all that interested in exploring or talking about Atlantis. You know, that big thing that the show is named after and what differentiates it from SG1. It's kinda like what TPTB did to SG1 - in season 9 and 10 it became less about the Stargate, the major technological discovery and title of the show, and more about big honkin' spaceships and teleporters. :mckay:

That is the #1 most irritating issue I have with SGA. The show is Stargate - ATLANTIS, yet we never see or learn about ATLANTIS. TPTB had the opportunity to have a strong, female lead character heading the exploration of an Ancient city and what do we really get? Stargate - SHEP'S TEAM, who aren't even in Atlantis 95% of the time. We have our hero who is beautiful to look at, but doesn't have much in personality and apparently no family or backstory, we have a scientist who can't shut his mouth and insults every living thing, we have a hot alien babe who dresses in clothes two sizes too small for her and doesn't have much to say, and a warrior who grunts and shoots everyone in sight.

So much for the original story ideas.

mcbarr
January 15th, 2007, 11:07 AM
Yeah, they keep replacing/reducing participation of important characters, yet the bs remains the same: their lack of imagination to come up with good storylines. Oh, this SUCKS! :mad:

lunarleviathan
January 15th, 2007, 08:16 PM
Changing characters is all good in my book, none of the 4 real main characters are changing. However...... bringing Carter into the show just because AT has a contract is a bad decision. :mad: She simply does not fit anywhere in the show with the exception of the odd guest appearance. I think this is the one change that has the potential to really bury Season 4, I hope it wont, but it doesn't look good. 14 episodes = too much screen time.

flynn1959
January 16th, 2007, 07:03 AM
As a very, VERY new Atlantis viewer, I have to say that I won't be watching season four. I had really started to warm up to Weir and I love Becket, I don't like Carter never have. I tolerated her on SG1 because, well I was looking at Daniel.

I know I won't like it so I am not even prepared to waste my time giving it a try. Carter to me is reason enough not to watch let alone the removal of two characters I do like.

Gregorius
January 16th, 2007, 08:55 AM
That is the #1 most irritating issue I have with SGA. The show is Stargate - ATLANTIS, yet we never see or learn about ATLANTIS. TPTB had the opportunity to have a strong, female lead character heading the exploration of an Ancient city and what do we really get? Stargate - SHEP'S TEAM, who aren't even in Atlantis 95% of the time. We have our hero who is beautiful to look at, but doesn't have much in personality and apparently no family or backstory, we have a scientist who can't shut his mouth and insults every living thing, we have a hot alien babe who dresses in clothes two sizes too small for her and doesn't have much to say, and a warrior who grunts and shoots everyone in sight.

So much for the original story ideas.

It's going to sound very cynical but: SGA: Shep's team is easier to write, that way they can simply rehash old SG-1 script. Save the trouble. As for showing Atlantis, they only show Atlantis when they need some eyecandy to fill up the time to 45 min.

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 08:58 AM
never thought I'd check in here...

...but ALL of the actors can do FAR better than this TRIPE they've been given to work with.

Suzotchka
January 16th, 2007, 09:41 AM
To me it sounds like Atlantis should get a new name.

Just like how season 9 and on of SG-1 was going to be a new (renamed) show.

Too many cast changes too quickly.

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 09:44 AM
Atlantis should now be called

Stargate: SGC Outpost

or

Stargate: SG1 The adventures continues

Gregorius
January 16th, 2007, 09:52 AM
To me it sounds like Atlantis needs not to switch names, but rather showrunners and other PTB. The current ones have proven not to be capable of responsibility of running a series.

Gregorius
January 16th, 2007, 12:16 PM
Or they dislike the way the change is executed. *mutters something about "Sunday"*

grasshopper64
January 16th, 2007, 01:08 PM
Had to jump into this thread. I can't believe they're making so many changes so quickly, well actually I can:) You think they'd have learnt with SG1 that making so many changes so quickly is a mistake.

IMO I have liked most of season 3 and felt the team (as it is) was coming together nicely and for most eps I've felt that SGA has been much better than SG1 this season. Now it's going to be broken up.

I think bring over Sam for 14 eps is crazy. I do like Sam, I really do and would've been ok with maybe 3-4 eps but not 14. She is an SG1 character not SGA. TPTB are only doing it, I believe, because they think it will guarantee them an audience. Wrong I think, like bringing in CB,BB and Beau Bridges didn't push up the ratings on SG1. And if bringing Sam in is the reason for Weir's reduced role then that makes it worse.

It's also crazy I think bringing in Jewel Staite's character for Carson. As has been pointed about many times she's only 24 and supposed to be a Doctor.:(

I do think the show will go the way of SG1 and that's sad. Maybe Atlantis will just go to an S5 but only because scifi will want that 100th ep:(

Amanda Eros
January 16th, 2007, 01:43 PM
Wow ... do the PTB have a clue? :: Silence :: I guess not. They love ruining a good thing don't they. I was hoping what was said about Carson was just a suggestion, but ... are they that hungry for ratings? I think that card should be used once and once only in a franchise. Though I think it shows how desperate or rather how disconnected from the audience they really are.

Then with Weir ... maybe a bit of research is in order. Go and observe someone with similar qualifications as Weir. That might inspire a clue as how to write an intelligent woman. How to find one, open a phone book and look at lawyers, doctors, professors, politicians. At least read a book on Eleanor Roosevelt or Alice Paul. But I guess they don't have the time to do that or they don't care enough to do their homework.

Jackie
January 16th, 2007, 03:12 PM
You know, if I had done anything as drastic as TPTB have done this year, my parents would have accused me of smoking crack. And to which my father would have said that he could cure this by putting his foot in my ass.

To the PTB, are you guys on drugs? Would it help straighten you out if we the fans collectively put our foots in your behinds'?

Seriously, what the heck is going on over there? In two short years we've gone from a stable franchise that can handle changes in stride to taking a face plant into utter chaos!!!! Are they trying to kill SGA?

Your lucky--if my parents thought I was on crack they would be asking me for my supplier.





To me it sounds like Atlantis should get a new name.

Just like how season 9 and on of SG-1 was going to be a new (renamed) show.

Too many cast changes too quickly.


That was my thought exactly after reading all the changes. I fear it turn into a rehash of Stargate Command the failed show.

Perhaps they will rename the series: Atlantis-the new SGC. Or Atlantis-The Continuum, Atlantis-BSG, Atlantis-The Ark of half Truths.

Dusk
January 16th, 2007, 11:53 PM
Yes but what's this big change Flanagan spoke of, something that will redefine the show!

samsnares
January 17th, 2007, 01:26 AM
If you have a problem with my views then just spit it out! Don't wait for the Cavalry to arrive.

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 09:59 AM
This thread isn't to cause fights or anything
its just i wanted place where i could to talk to people about the first 3 seasons

i won't be watching season 4 but i did enjoy the first three.
It just not the same with all the changed that were made in Sunday and First Strike

I want to remember the good times.

I want to be able to Squea about the altlantis i love still

my atlantis does not include season 4

anyone want to chat with me?

whats your fav episode of the first three seasons?

whos your fav character?

Suzotchka
February 13th, 2007, 10:01 AM
I most likely won't be watching season 4 either.

It's hard to choose a favorite episode. There are so many. Poisoning the Well, Before I Sleep - but more current are The Real World and Common Ground.

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 10:03 AM
I most likely won't be watching season 4 either.

It's hard to choose a favorite episode. There are so many. Poisoning the Well, Before I Sleep - but more current are The Real World and Common Ground.

i really like Sateda and Common Ground

i also loved the defiant one and 38 minutes.... but agreed poisoning the well was awesome!

good carson moments in that one

Suzotchka
February 13th, 2007, 10:04 AM
i really like Sateda and Common Ground

i also loved the defiant one and 38 minutes.... but agreed poisoning the well was awesome!

good carson moments in that one

Ooo yes - Sateda! Excellent episode!

Wormhole
February 13th, 2007, 10:16 AM
I haven’t decided weather to watch season 4 yet, till I hear more on what’s going on???????????????????

As for favourite episodes. Hide and Seek, The Storm/The Eye, The Siege Trilogy, Inferno, Progeny/The Real World, The Return parts 1 & 2, Sateda and Echoes.

As for favourite character am I aloud three? :sheppard: :mckay: :weir:

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 11:05 AM
I haven’t decided weather to watch season 4 yet, till I hear more on what’s going on???????????????????

As for favourite episodes. Hide and Seek, The Storm/The Eye, The Siege Trilogy, Inferno, Progeny/The Real World, The Return parts 1 & 2, Sateda and Echoes.

As for favourite character am I aloud three? :sheppard: :mckay: :weir:

sure you can have more then one :D

really what i liked about the first three seasons was the entire cast

thats never happened to me before where i loved everyone... usually i just follow one fav characters but with atlantis it was different i really loved everyone and how they worked together :)

Wormhole
February 13th, 2007, 11:17 AM
sure you can have more then one :D

really what i liked about the first three seasons was the entire cast

thats never happened to me before where i loved everyone... usually i just follow one fav characters but with atlantis it was different i really loved everyone and how they worked together :)

Ditto, I can safely say not many shows can drag me away from Doctor Who and keep me watching. Atlantis is one of a few shows that has achieved that and that was mainly down to the mix of cast members particularly you know who;) I loved the chemistry those three had between them:cool: .

J. Stone
February 13th, 2007, 11:20 AM
Throw rocks, bricks or anything you have handy if you must, but this is my honest opinion.

1. Weir. Should be enough said, but I will elaborate. This woman has made more bad decisions than anyone has a right to. She makes these decisions based on her morals and not her head. Atlantis is the first line of defense against the Wraith. A person with a military background and able to make the tough decisions should be in charge. Not some tree hugging, squirrel humping, anti death penalty, hippie. How many chances has she given Michael? How many times has THAT come back to bite her in the ass? There is a debate going on about Carter vs Weir. If this were a real situation, I'd take Carter in a heartbeat, so that my heart could continue to beat.

2. McKay. I like the character in general, but come on!! Ego is one thing, but he takes it to a whole new level. So much so, he blew up a freaking planet. He insults the other members and never admits his faults. Yeah, they did have an episode that had him dying and he admitted some of these faults, but once he found out he was going to live he reverted back to his same old annoying self. Characters like this need to have some type of redeeming quality to make him, at least, likable. It seems to me that his attitude bringing down the morale of the expedition far outweigh the contributions (and failures) he makes.

3. Teyla. Another person who appears to cause more trouble than she is worth. Another Weir in that she wants to believe in everyone. That is not the way to run the first line of defense.

4. Sheppard. If you're in charge, be in charge! If the people in your command can't follow your orders either replace them, or stand down. I don't remember the episode, but when Ronon said to Sheppard "If you kill him first, I'll kill you" I wanted to throw up. NO military leader I have ever served with would have put up that. He stands around with his hands in his pockets when Weir is making bad choices. Choices he knows to be wrong. Grow a spine for Gods Sake.

5. No main bad guy to speak of. What we have are the Wraith. The show needs one (or a group) of clear cut, identifiable people/person to give the team a target to shoot for. Literally.

6. A better more defined storyline to follow. What is the purpose of this expedition? Is it to defend Earth from the Wraith or to explore Atlantis for some really cool stuff? Or both? Why are there TWO aliens on the First Team? When Teal'c joined the SGC he wanted to help Earth defeat the Goa'uld thus saving and freeing his people. Tayla wants to help, but why? Its the right thing to do? Not much real incentive. Why is Ronon on the team? Because he was homeless? Well hell, we have a truckload of homeless people here on Earth that would love the job. Ronon is skilled, but we have soldiers in the military that are equally as skilled. Put one of them on the team. Or better yet, dump Teyla and put a sexy Earth girl in her place.

Okay. I'm done. The brick throwing may now begin. :)

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 11:27 AM
Ditto, I can safely say not many shows can drag me away from Doctor Who and keep me watching. Atlantis is one of a few shows that has achieved that and that was mainly down to the mix of cast members particularly you know who;) I loved the chemistry those three had between them:cool: .

totally agree! and although i am primarily a shep whumper fan i loved the moments between carson and rodney, those were so sweet you could tell that they are really good friends in real life to

i love elizabeth... i'm not really a shipper though i have totally nothing agianst those that are but i loved how she dealt with john and kept him in control a bit

hehe love when she gets pissy hehehe :D i always think..oh man they are in for it now hehe love weir! :D

Salas1
February 13th, 2007, 11:32 AM
Throw rocks, bricks or anything you have handy if you must, but this is my honest opinion.

1. Weir. Should be enough said, but I will elaborate. This woman has made more bad decisions than anyone has a right to. She makes these decisions based on her morals and not her head. Atlantis is the first line of defense against the Wraith. A person with a military background and able to make the tough decisions should be in charge. Not some tree hugging, squirrel humping, anti death penalty, hippie.

Are you pro death penalty? Because you are a complete and utter (words that would have this post removed) if you are.

The rest of the post, you aren't far wrong, but who cares, it's a TV show, if these decisions didn't happen, their would be no stories, following military protocol, Teal'c would never have been allowed on the team, neither would Daniel, you wouldn't send any civilian on any mission that dangerous at the start, so he would never have been on the team, I doubt they would even decide to use the Stargate if things were in the real world.

Ruined_puzzle
February 13th, 2007, 11:33 AM
Oooo I won't be watching s4 either, well at least not live and then maybe not at all. Heee.

For me SGA ended with Echoes because that way it ended in a good episode with awesome Carson still alive.

Favorite episode of s1
38 minutes is what actually really grabbed me and made stay and watch the show, before that I was meh. I also loved Before I Sleep, Letters From Pegasus, The Eye, The Storm ,The Seige. Ahh s1 had to many good episodes.

s2
The Seige 3, Conversion, Critical Mass, Coup D'etat and The Long Goodbye for the pretty visual of Elizabeth fighting :)

s3
Sateda, Progeny, The Real World, Common Ground, Echoes and Tao of Rodney.

Commander Ivanova
February 13th, 2007, 11:36 AM
He's just trying to rattle our cages, LOL!

J. Stone
February 13th, 2007, 11:39 AM
Are you pro death penalty? Because you are a complete and utter (words that would have this post removed) if you are.

The rest of the post, you aren't far wrong, but who cares, it's a TV show, if these decisions didn't happen, their would be no stories, following military protocol, Teal'c would never have been allowed on the team, neither would Daniel, you wouldn't send any civilian on any mission that dangerous at the start, so he would never have been on the team, I doubt they would even decide to use the Stargate if things were in the real world.

The entire post was an academic exercise.

What I meant by an anti death penalty hippie was that she can't bring herself to do what needs to be done. Take Mikey for instance. He should have been eliminated after the first betrayal.

J. Stone
February 13th, 2007, 11:41 AM
He's just trying to rattle our cages, LOL!

Not at all. I'm just voicing my opinions. Are we not allowed to do that here? This is how I truly feel about the show.

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 11:42 AM
Oooo I won't be watching s4 either, well at least not live and then maybe not at all. Heee.

For me SGA ended with Echoes because that way it ended in a good episode with awesome Carson still alive.

Favorite episode of s1
38 minutes is what actually really grabbed me and made stay and watch the show, before that I was meh. I also loved Before I Sleep, Letters From Pegasus, The Eye, The Storm ,The Seige. Ahh s1 had to many good episodes.

s2
The Seige 3, Conversion, Critical Mass, Coup D'etat and The Long Goodbye for the pretty visual of Elizabeth fighting :)

s3
Sateda, Progeny, The Real World, Common Ground, Echoes and Tao of Rodney.


In my mind sunday and final strike don't exsist lol i am blocking them from my mind. *plugs ears and hums*

I gotta say i was hooked on atlantis from the moment i saw the first episode, the john sheppard character interested me the very second i heard about his black mark, i adore angst and the underdog and her i had a hero that was both... hehe i knew i was hooked and in big fangirl trouble lol.

I knew i loved beckett the minute he panicked about the chair and the drone hehe

i loved rodney when he said 'zed-pm' good ol canadian boy hehe

I loved weir that first conversation between her and jack where she was begging for shep and jack thought she wanted Daniel :D

i could go on.... :D...and i might yet lol

Sicktem
February 13th, 2007, 11:42 AM
Atlantis isn't the first line of defense for Earth. It's a resource that can be used to find Earth if the Wraith get their hands on it only if someone screws up. However, all they had to do to avoid that is to not fall for their viruses (something that happened because Mckay ignored Weir when she asked if it was on a firewalled computer) and blow up the city before the Wraith get there. What Atlantis really is, is a resource that it meant to be used to get technology to Earth and the Wraith are there to try to destroy that resource so if they lose it they are forced to pack up and go home while forgetting all about the Wraith. Along the way, the Wraith found out about Earth and made getting their one of their goals, but they have no knowledge of where it is nor do they have the technology to get there, so keeping it from them became an secondary issue.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you about who you don't like as that's simply a matter of opinion (the flaws you find in some characters are things I personally enjoy watching). However, the reasons they let Telya join the team was for the same reasons they let Teal'c join. She knew the Pegasus galaxy better than them and thus could be their guide to other planets and people (her people traded and were on good relations with countless other worlds and she brought with her their knowledge of those people). In season 1 this was invaulable since they were cut off from Earth and often needed simple things like finding people to trade with for food, but up until now they constantly ask her what if anything she knows about people when they go to new worlds. She was also an enemy of the Wraith and wanted to help in their fight with them and she knew them best. So well, in fact, that she had the ability to sense the Wraith nearby and it is that ability which is the only reason any of them are alive so not bringing someone along with that ability alone is foolish. As far as Ronan goes, he also knows the terrain and people very well and is a far superior warrior than anyone in Earth's military. His strength alone is beyond anything that is possible for an Earth Human and he has excellent skills in everything useful for fighting including tracking. The guy successfully ran from the Wraith while they had a tracking chip in him for 10 years. Surely that counts for something over anything Earth has to offer. But, for the record Weir wasn't so sure that Ronan joining the team would be a good idea. Sheppard had to convince her and as you said he's not one who likes to play it by the book.

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 11:44 AM
I'll be watching S4, mainly because I'm hooked on the two in my sig. I like Chuck too, but not fussed about many of the others.

i like chuck to... heck i adore shep and ronan etc... but its not enough for me to watch season 4. they changed the characters too much

but i won't get in to why final strike annoys me... i just want to remember the good times

J. Stone
February 13th, 2007, 11:44 AM
I'll watch 4 if they come up with a better cast and storyline. Looks like some of the SG1 cast will be coming over to help save the show. Let us all pray that Vala is one of them.

J. Stone
February 13th, 2007, 11:48 AM
Atlantis isn't the first line of defense for Earth. It's a resource that can be used to find Earth if the Wraith get their hands on it only if someone screws up. However, all they had to do to avoid that is to not fall for their viruses (something that happened because Mckay ignored Weir when she asked if it was on a firewalled computer) and blow up the city before the Wraith get there. What Atlantis really is, is a resource that it meant to be used to get technology to Earth and the Wraith are there to try to destroy that resource so if they lose it they are forced to pack up and go home while forgetting all about the Wraith. Along the way, the Wraith found out about Earth and made getting their one of their goals, but they have no knowledge of where it is nor do they have the technology to get there, so keeping it from them became an secondary issue.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you about who you don't like as that's simply a matter of opinion (the flaws you find in some characters are things I personally enjoy watching). However, the reasons they let Telya join the team was for the same reasons they let Teal'c join. She knew the Pegasus galaxy better than them and thus could be their guide to other planets and people (her people traded and were on good relations with countless other worlds and she brought with her their knowledge of those people). In season 1 this was invaulable since they were cut off from Earth and often needed simple things like finding people to trade with for food, but up until now they constantly ask her what if anything she knows about people when they go to new worlds. She was also an enemy of the Wraith and wanted to help in their fight with them and she knew them best. So well, in fact, that she had the ability to sense the Wraith nearby and it is that ability which is the only reason any of them are alive so not bringing someone along with that ability alone is foolish. As far as Ronan goes, he also knows the terrain and people very well and is a far superior warrior than anyone in Earth's military. His strength alone is beyond anything that is possible for an Earth Human and he has excellent skills in everything useful for fighting including tracking. The guy successfully ran from the Wraith while they tracked him for 10 years, surely that counts for something over anything Earth has to offer.

Thats one opinion. I guess it really falls to taste. One mans great show is anothers cancelled show. Thanks for your well thought out reply.

Uber
February 13th, 2007, 11:48 AM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=39479

;)

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 11:50 AM
I'll watch 4 if they come up with a better cast and storyline. Looks like some of the SG1 cast will be coming over to help save the show. Let us all pray that Vala is one of them.

i would prefer if we didn't talk about season 4 here, its why i started this thread

while everyone is getting excited about season 4 i can't do that, i need a place where i can talk about the atlantis i love. For me Atlantis as a show is over. this shouldn't be a debate thread i just really want a place where i can talk about the show i loved season 1-3

maybe a bit of why you won't watch season 4 thats cool, as long as we keep it friendly..

i don't know what do you guys think

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 11:51 AM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=39479

;)

Oh so sorry i didn't see it! i kind of poked around... guess i'm just blind maybe the mods can merge the two

or is the subject matter different? i think my thread is different
the other thread is for complaining i want mine to be about remembering the good stuff from before
can we have 2 threads?

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 12:00 PM
oops i accidently started a second thread... do you think they are different or should we get the mods to merge them? i think they are a bit different

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=40649

J. Stone
February 13th, 2007, 12:03 PM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=39479

;)

Thank you and :thoranime01:

Uber
February 13th, 2007, 12:12 PM
Oh so sorry i didn't see it! i kind of poked around... guess i'm just blind maybe the mods can merge the two

or is the subject matter different? i think my thread is different
the other thread is for complaining i want mine to be about remembering the good stuff from before
can we have 2 threads?Typically, anti threads mix both positive and negative...such as, "Here's what I really hate about Season X/it used to be so much better in Season Y because...".

People need a place to vent frustration as well as celebrate what they enjoyed...how a show they love is changing into something different that they either don't know they'll like or have pre-determined not to like because they didn't care for the changes that have already taken place.

Anti threads aren't only for the ones that truly detest a season...they're also for those who have misgivings about it; and as a result, people do tend to reminisce about the things they love and miss or will miss.

GateLadyM
February 13th, 2007, 12:14 PM
I've always liked snarky McKay, and Zelenka is a gem, but Weir never was written well enough for Torri's talents. TPTB still can't write good female characters, and I doubt they ever will (Carter being the exception, but there were a few different writers around when she was created).

Teyla was supposed to be like Teal'c in that she could give us info on the PG, but all we've seen is her Tour-Guide Barbie explanations of farming communities. Her talents as a resource never were fully explored and now she is just as shocked as the rest of our team when they encounter a new world. There is nothing that sets her apart or makes her unique, like Teal'c, who is still a marvelous and interesting character, full of intelligence, strength, and yet a silent warmth that endears him to the viewer. Teal'c is a true leader among the Jaffa, and I have yet to see Teyla do anything "leaderly" with the Athosians.

Sheppard was cute in season 1, and his "I don't want to lead" personality fit. Here was a character who could grow into his role as a leader. Alas, in season 2 he started bagging chicks for a hobby and everything else he did was static and the same, week after week. Now he is just, meh.

Carson was the heart and soul, even with his failed attempts for a retrovirus. He really wanted to help. Dumping him was a mistake. Too big a hole for Jewel Staite to fill, I fear.

The Wraith started out interesting, but everytime we get one we can identify with, they get killed. A good, recurring queen would have been fun. Michael isn't exactly a Wraith, so he doesn't count (as the Wraith don't want him either). SGA needed an Anubis, or Apophis-type villian. One never materialized. Kolya was close, but the writers messed him up too in Irresponsible.

I'll probably watch bits and pieces of season 4, but I'm not going to go out of my way to do it, like I used to for SG1/SGA/BSG Fridays.

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 12:19 PM
I asked the mods if we could keep both threads...just waiting for a reply :)

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 12:21 PM
Typically, anti threads mix both positive and negative...such as, "Here's what I really hate about Season X/it used to be so much better in Season Y because...".

People need a place to vent frustration as well as celebrate what they enjoyed...how a show they love is changing into something different that they either don't know they'll like or have pre-determined not to like because they didn't care for the changes that have already taken place.

Anti threads aren't only for the ones that truly detest a season...they're also for those who have misgivings about it; and as a result, people do tend to reminisce about the things they love and miss or will miss.


well said i guess i just don't want to dwell and get lost in negativitly, which i can be prone to do... i wanted to remember the show i love

ah either way i'll be happy as long as i can talk about the atlantis i love it should be cool

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 12:56 PM
I love Shep and McKay, but with just the two of them it'll be a lot of snarkiness. Elizabeth softens both characters.


agreed i totally love that about elizabeth!

Wormhole
February 13th, 2007, 01:11 PM
agreed i totally love that about elizabeth!

Yeap the show won't, be the same without all three:(

Just adding one more to fav episodes, Before I Sleep.

J. Stone
February 13th, 2007, 01:13 PM
I've always liked snarky McKay, and Zelenka is a gem, but Weir never was written well enough for Torri's talents. TPTB still can't write good female characters, and I doubt they ever will (Carter being the exception, but there were a few different writers around when she was created).

Teyla was supposed to be like Teal'c in that she could give us info on the PG, but all we've seen is her Tour-Guide Barbie explanations of farming communities. Her talents as a resource never were fully explored and now she is just as shocked as the rest of our team when they encounter a new world. There is nothing that sets her apart or makes her unique, like Teal'c, who is still a marvelous and interesting character, full of intelligence, strength, and yet a silent warmth that endears him to the viewer. Teal'c is a true leader among the Jaffa, and I have yet to see Teyla do anything "leaderly" with the Athosians.

Sheppard was cute in season 1, and his "I don't want to lead" personality fit. Here was a character who could grow into his role as a leader. Alas, in season 2 he started bagging chicks for a hobby and everything else he did was static and the same, week after week. Now he is just, meh.

Carson was the heart and soul, even with his failed attempts for a retrovirus. He really wanted to help. Dumping him was a mistake. Too big a hole for Jewel Staite to fill, I fear.

The Wraith started out interesting, but everytime we get one we can identify with, they get killed. A good, recurring queen would have been fun. Michael isn't exactly a Wraith, so he doesn't count (as the Wraith don't want him either). SGA needed an Anubis, or Apophis-type villian. One never materialized. Kolya was close, but the writers messed him up too in Irresponsible.

I'll probably watch bits and pieces of season 4, but I'm not going to go out of my way to do it, like I used to for SG1/SGA/BSG Fridays.

Outstanding reply. Thank you.

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 01:18 PM
Yeap the show won't, be the same without all three:(

Just adding one more to fav episodes, Before I Sleep.

yup totally..its not the same show anymore

oo before i sleep excellent!

loved sheppy sleeping my liz's bed :D

ToasterOnFire
February 13th, 2007, 02:09 PM
I remember the beginning of season one - so much potential, so much wide-eyed wonder for the new city and galaxy they had just discovered.

Ah...good times, good times...

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 02:22 PM
I remember the beginning of season one - so much potential, so much wide-eyed wonder for the new city and galaxy they had just discovered.

Ah...good times, good times...

yup (((hugs))) it was a beautiful thing

nowvoyager908
February 13th, 2007, 02:48 PM
I love the idea of this thread. Its kind of like an Irish wake . . . you remember and celebrate the good times so you can keep the tears at bay. LOL. I'll have to give my "best of" episodes some thought. I like all the characters, but my favorite three would have to be Shep, Elizabeth and Carson.

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 03:17 PM
I love the idea of this thread. Its kind of like an Irish wake . . . you remember and celebrate the good times so you can keep the tears at bay. LOL. I'll have to give my "best of" episodes some thought. I like all the characters, but my favorite three would have to be Shep, Elizabeth and Carson.

aww yes thats a lovely thought truly! i'd green you if i could :)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/goodbeer.gifhttp://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/_drinkingbuddies.gif

prion
February 13th, 2007, 03:31 PM
Throw rocks, bricks or anything you have handy if you must, but this is my honest opinion.

1. Weir. Should be enough said, but I will elaborate. This woman has made more bad decisions than anyone has a right to. She makes these decisions based on her morals and not her head. Atlantis is the first line of defense against the Wraith. A person with a military background and able to make the tough decisions should be in charge. Not some tree hugging, squirrel humping, anti death penalty, hippie. How many chances has she given Michael? How many times has THAT come back to bite her in the ass? There is a debate going on about Carter vs Weir. If this were a real situation, I'd take Carter in a heartbeat, so that my heart could continue to beat.

2. McKay. I like the character in general, but come on!! Ego is one thing, but he takes it to a whole new level. So much so, he blew up a freaking planet. He insults the other members and never admits his faults. Yeah, they did have an episode that had him dying and he admitted some of these faults, but once he found out he was going to live he reverted back to his same old annoying self. Characters like this need to have some type of redeeming quality to make him, at least, likable. It seems to me that his attitude bringing down the morale of the expedition far outweigh the contributions (and failures) he makes.

3. Teyla. Another person who appears to cause more trouble than she is worth. Another Weir in that she wants to believe in everyone. That is not the way to run the first line of defense.

4. Sheppard. If you're in charge, be in charge! If the people in your command can't follow your orders either replace them, or stand down. I don't remember the episode, but when Ronon said to Sheppard "If you kill him first, I'll kill you" I wanted to throw up. NO military leader I have ever served with would have put up that. He stands around with his hands in his pockets when Weir is making bad choices. Choices he knows to be wrong. Grow a spine for Gods Sake.

5. No main bad guy to speak of. What we have are the Wraith. The show needs one (or a group) of clear cut, identifiable people/person to give the team a target to shoot for. Literally.

6. A better more defined storyline to follow. What is the purpose of this expedition? Is it to defend Earth from the Wraith or to explore Atlantis for some really cool stuff? Or both? Why are there TWO aliens on the First Team? When Teal'c joined the SGC he wanted to help Earth defeat the Goa'uld thus saving and freeing his people. Tayla wants to help, but why? Its the right thing to do? Not much real incentive. Why is Ronon on the team? Because he was homeless? Well hell, we have a truckload of homeless people here on Earth that would love the job. Ronon is skilled, but we have soldiers in the military that are equally as skilled. Put one of them on the team. Or better yet, dump Teyla and put a sexy Earth girl in her place.

Okay. I'm done. The brick throwing may now begin. :)

In other words, you don't like the writers ;)

J. Stone
February 13th, 2007, 05:47 PM
In other words, you don't like the writers ;)

:) Yeah. That about covers it. :)

Pharaoh Atem
February 13th, 2007, 05:52 PM
In other words, you don't like the writers ;)

well i'll tell you i'm not sure if i like the idea of joe and paul running SGA :S

parisindy
February 13th, 2007, 07:13 PM
i like the writing... i don't like that the answer to every problem is blow it up

we want to shake things up *carson blow up*
the Asurans are being naughty *asurans blow up*
Weir disagrees with the military *weir blows up*

i do love what atlantis was though.. and i will be watching a lot of dvd's :)

Commander Ivanova
February 13th, 2007, 11:31 PM
Throw rocks, bricks or anything you have handy if you must, but this is my honest opinion.

[points 1-6]

Okay. I'm done. The brick throwing may now begin. :)

J. Stone openly invited 'brick throwing'. Behind the scenes I greened him for the frankness of his post (even though I disagreed with some of the content) and merely commented on the thread that I thought he was rattling our cages, pulling our legs, having a laugh, teasing us, playing devil's advocate, however you want to phrase it. Which was my honest opinion. And some third party red jello's me for that?

nowvoyager908
February 14th, 2007, 08:03 AM
Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but SciFi is running an SGA marathon of sorts on Friday the 16th. About 8 hours worth and looks like season 1. I know they're starting with The Rising. Remembering the good times . . . (sigh).

parisindy
February 14th, 2007, 02:58 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but SciFi is running an SGA marathon of sorts on Friday the 16th. About 8 hours worth and looks like season 1. I know they're starting with The Rising. Remembering the good times . . . (sigh).

awww wish i got the sci fi channel... can't get it up here

but maybe i'll have my own private one in homage

parisindy
February 14th, 2007, 03:02 PM
Haha! Nice one. Reminds me of a former boss of mine. Someone does/says something you don't like? Yell! Beat them into submission. Don't ever talk, discuss, negotiate -- just yell! Same principle.. and the sign of being limited in your skills, IMO.

I still don't blame the writers i think their hands got to be tied to a certain extent.... darn i'm going to miss this show :(

i was thinking... i'm not watching 4...

but what would make me change my mind?

i think some how ...

ressurecting carson

its not impossible.. how many times has daniel died?

if Sam became only a minor reoccuring character

and if

Weir reclaimed her leadership

DrCheese
February 14th, 2007, 07:38 PM
I'm not sure I agree with tori's demotion. Sure people might argue that she does very little on off world based shows, but Hammond never really had huge amounts of screentime on SG1 and Landry doesn't either yet neither of those characters were recuring.
Also as she's recurring its not exactly a full time job for her anymore so she may find another perminant role in another show for her which limits the amount of time that she is free for filming on Atlantis, again not good for us

I will be very upset if they throw Carter into the leadership of Atlantis role over her and I've never really liked the whole carter/mckay relationship thing, it always seemed a little pathetic that whenever they met they would bicker all the time. Hopefully they will tone that down a bit and also not sideline mckay in favour of her whenever something happens.

I'm not generally against season 4, I'd much rather have Atlantis to watch than none at all, its just bizzare that TPTB want to make so many cast changes in such a short time.

parisindy
February 14th, 2007, 07:44 PM
its just bizzare that TPTB want to make so many cast changes in such a short time.

couldn't agree more with that last little bit

kris
February 14th, 2007, 09:02 PM
awww wish i got the sci fi channel... can't get it up here

but maybe i'll have my own private one in homage
Me, too. I still have an unwrapped first season to plunge into someday. But right now I'm not in the mood. Keep remembering it just ain't the same show anymore. When I manage to quit being irked over the damaging cast changes then I'll be enjoying Hide and Seek, 38 Minutes and Hot Zone all over again. Remember Poisoning the Well?

Paul McGillion: Now you see him, now you don't.


:(

metabog
February 14th, 2007, 09:07 PM
Weir is still going to be the leader of the expedition, she just isn't going to show up at every mission just to say "good work john".

parisindy
February 14th, 2007, 09:56 PM
Weir is still going to be the leader of the expedition, she just isn't going to show up at every mission just to say "good work john".

i heard sam was taking over..don't much matter really thats just onw change i dislike there are so many more

i can't wait till my season 2 dvd's come!

AutumnDream
February 15th, 2007, 01:52 AM
This thread makes me warm and fuzzy inside. Yeah, literally.

Suzotchka
February 15th, 2007, 06:08 AM
To me, season 4 of Atlantis has turned into what season 9 & 10 of SG-1 was. Season 9 & 10, IMO, had too many cast changes, so much so, I felt they should've renamed the show (which I know they tried to do, right?). And I'm getting the same feeling with Atlantis. So no, I won't be watching season 4.

Jackie
February 15th, 2007, 07:18 AM
To me, season 4 of Atlantis has turned into what season 9 & 10 of SG-1 was. Season 9 & 10, IMO, had too many cast changes, so much so, I felt they should've renamed the show (which I know they tried to do, right?). And I'm getting the same feeling with Atlantis. So no, I won't be watching season 4.

I get the same vibe. They want to make it a whole new show but under the old name. One would figure they would have learned thier lesson with SG-1.

FoolishPleasure
February 15th, 2007, 08:38 AM
To me, season 4 of Atlantis has turned into what season 9 & 10 of SG-1 was. Season 9 & 10, IMO, had too many cast changes, so much so, I felt they should've renamed the show (which I know they tried to do, right?). And I'm getting the same feeling with Atlantis. So no, I won't be watching season 4.
The difference between changing characters in SG1 and SGA, is that RDA and Don Davis both wanted to leave SG1. RDA to spend time with his young daughter and Don Davis moved to Europe. TPTB wanted to change the name of the show, and its focus at that time (a smart move), but that got shot down by the "suits" that know it all. :rolleyes: I like the new characters on SG1 and think the writers have been able to incorporate them well. Season 10 especially has been quite good, better than SGA, IMO.

SGA, on the other hand, had characters (all of them) who have never been fully developed and actors who wanted to stay. The "kill off" is being done for shock value only, not to progress any story arc, or to accommodate an actor who wants to leave. Good grief - death by exploding tumor? That has to be the worst bit of nonsense I've ever seen!

parisindy
February 15th, 2007, 02:43 PM
This thread makes me warm and fuzzy inside. Yeah, literally.

awwwww ((hugs))

hope its not just cause you ate a wool sock ;)

parisindy
February 15th, 2007, 02:51 PM
The difference between changing characters in SG1 and SGA, is that RDA and Don Davis both wanted to leave SG1. RDA to spend time with his young daughter and Don Davis moved to Europe. TPTB wanted to change the name of the show, and its focus at that time (a smart move), but that got shot down by the "suits" that know it all. :rolleyes: I like the new characters on SG1 and think the writers have been able to incorporate them well. Season 10 especially has been quite good, better than SGA, IMO.

SGA, on the other hand, had characters (all of them) who have never been fully developed and actors who wanted to stay. The "kill off" is being done for shock value only, not to progress any story arc, or to accommodate an actor who wants to leave.

Excellent post! Couldn’t agree more... really one of the biggest if not the main reason I’m not watching season 4 is that I feel that TPTB were actually not fair to Paul and Torri, and rainbow (think just how cool rainbow and ronan would have been... lol imagine them torturing poor shep hehe) ...all whom I thought were excellent representatives’ of the show.. simply because of their enthusiasm and love for Atlantis ...

i can't support their miss treatment..it was sad with rainbow..not torri and paul...

sure torri is reoccurring but then again so is rainbow i think

It_once_was_a_good_show
February 15th, 2007, 09:56 PM
Hello there

I've been reading this forum for a while now and just decided to post...

I'm against season 4... I agree with everything that was said here and I just wanted to highlight the fact that it's not the cast that needs to be changed but TPTB...

I found a website not long ago, two girls who are making it to the film industry in Vancouver, they're writers and directors and they did write some Atlantis episodes (to use as spec script to give to other shows I guess) ... there are 5 of them... two are Weir centered and the other are TEAM centered...

check it out... TPTB should look out there

www.brokenartists.com/scripts

kiwigater
February 16th, 2007, 01:50 AM
A reminder, this is a thread to discuss why you DON'T want season 4 - if you don't agree take it elsewhere.

parisindy
February 16th, 2007, 02:16 PM
thank you

since the atlantis i know an love is over.. i was thinking... how should it have ended...

if you were writing the last episode of atlantis how would you have liked to have seen it go out?

parisindy
February 17th, 2007, 03:00 PM
where did everyone go?

ToasterOnFire
February 17th, 2007, 06:02 PM
This thread makes me warm and fuzzy inside. Yeah, literally.


awwwww ((hugs))

hope its not just cause you ate a wool sock ;)
Or because you have a fungal lung infection. :eek: :D

I'm not strictly anti-s4, but I do have severe misgivings with all the changes. Maybe they'll end up just fine, maybe it'll be a repeat of SG1 s9... :S

parisindy
February 17th, 2007, 06:45 PM
Or because you have a fungal lung infection. :eek: :D


hehe

i'm just glad not to be alone... i love atlantis.. just can't watch season 4 after what they did in sunday and first strike...

but i did love the first 3 seasons..

i just want a place to hangout and talk about the first three seasons without the constant talk and cheering for season 4... i was hoping this thread might be the place but its gone a bit quiet

Diesel Vanilla
February 18th, 2007, 03:34 PM
Don't get me wrong, I love SGA and I have loved, on the whole, seasons 1-3... and I make criticism, as most of us do, only because I have loved it so much and want to see it last for 10 seasons! However, something is most definitely missing for me... and I'm not just talking Carson! Picking up on a few things posted before...


5. No main bad guy to speak of. What we have are the Wraith. The show needs one (or a group) of clear cut, identifiable people/person to give the team a target to shoot for. Literally.

Yeeesss!!!


6. A better more defined storyline to follow. What is the purpose of this expedition? Is it to defend Earth from the Wraith or to explore Atlantis for some really cool stuff? Or both?

One of my biggest gripes! There just isn't a major underlying thread carrying me through SGA... when there blimin' well should be and there are plenty of things that could be!!! There have been many stand alone episodes (great as they often are!), or arcs that don't really go anywhere... I've said it several times elsewhere... fingers in too many adversary-pies!!! Main enemy? Where? Who? A main enemy is ESSENTIAL!!! The Wraith story line has just fizzled... when it should have progressed massively by now!!!


Why are there TWO aliens on the First Team? When Teal'c joined the SGC he wanted to help Earth defeat the Goa'uld thus saving and freeing his people. Tayla wants to help, but why? Its the right thing to do? Not much real incentive. Why is Ronon on the team? Because he was homeless? Well hell, we have a truckload of homeless people here on Earth that would love the job. Ronon is skilled, but we have soldiers in the military that are equally as skilled. Put one of them on the team. Or better yet, dump Teyla and put a sexy Earth girl in her place.

YES! As much as I wouldn't want either of them to be replaced or killed in some random tumour related explosion... they seemingly have no REASON to be there when they SHOULD have. The writers haven't taken them anywhere. Ok, Ronon had Sateda, which was a great ep... but Teyla? Squat! SQUAT!!! ARGHHH!!!!!!

What HAS consistently been carrying me through the seasons has been the main characters and how they interact with each other. It's often wonderfully done... and I have grown to love the cast and their characters. Now that the direction of the show in terms of underlying plot and lack of defining 'mission statement' is, for me, just floundering even more, messing with the wonderful SGA team is really stubbing out one of my main reasons for watching. Killing off Beckett to 'shake things up' is not, in my humble book, how they should have gone about it. Get a damn MAIN enemy... DEVELOP them well... FILL OUT some of the more weakly developed characters and involve them instead of having them wallpaper the set... and please substantiate why the Atlantis expedition is THERE!!! It's ATLANTIS... soooooo FULL of history that is being ignored. Damn it, if it would make them focus on Atlantis itself then by all means bring over Daniel to get them kick started!!! I'm sure he'd have his best "Guide to Ancient Atlantean Exploration" with him, whereas everyone else seems to have left their copy at home!!!!!!!

And finally will TPTB allow the 90% of people who don't think Carson should have been booted, to jump into Janus's time-travelling puddle-jumper and return to pre-Sunday Atlantis so they can find some other bloody way to 'shake things up'!!!!!!!!!

/rant *dumps her SGA dvd in frustration and picks up Enterprise instead*

*squirms at ominous feeling after remembering Enterprise was needlessly cancelled at season 4*

*sob*

parisindy
February 18th, 2007, 04:28 PM
And finally will TPTB allow the 90% of people who don't think Carson should have been booted, to jump into Janus's time-travelling puddle-jumper and return to pre-Sunday Atlantis so they can find some other bloody way to 'shake things up'!!!!!!!!!


*cheers loudly*

awww sorry kiddo i know how sad you feel... this so sucks ((hugs))

Mitchell82
March 20th, 2007, 07:26 PM
I am not against season 4 but since the pros have one I'll create one for the antis as well.

parisindy
March 20th, 2007, 09:41 PM
I am not against season 4 but since the pros have one I'll create one for the antis as well.

actually there is already one some where hehe i was just the only one posting in it,,, i think most of the my liked minded people just faded away.

its hard cause i truly do love the first three seasons, thank you for the thread though that was very kind of you

i can't green you at the moment so *mental green*

nowvoyager908
March 21st, 2007, 12:07 AM
I hate the fact that slowly, but surely, my interest in SGA has really begun to cool. My heart is finally catching up with my head. It was easy to say I wouldn't watch after hearing about the changes; actually doing that was something else entirely. LOL. In the last couple of weeks, however, not watching has become . . . okay (shrugs shoulders).

I hate the fact that TPTB created someting pretty good in SGA and then didn't have the ability, or maybe just the courage, to stick with it long term. They seem to be retreating to a creative comfort zone by changing SGA into something that they already know pretty well . . . SG1. I guess that after ten years, they just can't let it go. Neither can many fans for that matter. Too bad for those of us who actually preferred the stepchild, warts and all.

Steve_the_Wraith
March 21st, 2007, 12:23 AM
If I see an episode and don't like it I'll post about it (Irresponsible for example was awful) but until I see an episode I try to stay positive... (unless Lucius is in it :P)

What I'm saying is that it is still too early to tell one way or the other, as for Atlantis turning into SG-1, well there isn't enough evidence for that. Carter may be coming but she's the only one - Landry, Daniel, Vala, Cameron, Jack, etc, etc, aren't moving over, and Teal'c is appearing for a cameo, and it's not like Carter's appearance is coming out of the blue, she has had mentions and guest spots every Atlantis season.

Not that I'm saying season 4, is going to be brilliant, just that I'm keeping an open mind

ShadowMaat
March 21st, 2007, 03:46 AM
There are already pro/anti threads for S4. They've been around for a while. This is the one for the anti thread (which has appropriate warnings and threats in the title/first post): http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=39479

kiwigater
March 21st, 2007, 03:47 AM
bump to find

Death From Above
March 21st, 2007, 04:03 AM
Killing Koyla in such a stupid way really undermined my faith in the writers, and as far as 'First Strike' goes, any 2-bit hack could have written that script, there was nothing to it: If you set the standard high with an epic 3-parter like 'The Siege', and the immense battle in 'No Mans Land', you've got to keep up the standards.

parisindy
March 21st, 2007, 05:41 AM
I hate the fact that slowly, but surely, my interest in SGA has really begun to cool. My heart is finally catching up with my head. It was easy to say I wouldn't watch after hearing about the changes; actually doing that was something else entirely. LOL. In the last couple of weeks, however, not watching has become . . . okay (shrugs shoulders).

I hate the fact that TPTB created someting pretty good in SGA and then didn't have the ability, or maybe just the courage, to stick with it long term. They seem to be retreating to a creative comfort zone by changing SGA into something that they already know pretty well . . . SG1. I guess that after ten years, they just can't let it go. Neither can many fans for that matter. Too bad for those of us who actually preferred the stepchild, warts and all.

totally agree, see i much preffered atlantis, and now i have barely opened my season 2 dvds even though i was uber excited to get them. I still want to be a fan of the first three seasons but i got to say its been hard

nonniemous
March 21st, 2007, 07:53 AM
totally agree, see i much preffered atlantis, and now i have barely opened my season 2 dvds even though i was uber excited to get them. I still want to be a fan of the first three seasons but i got to say its been hard

My family has watched the Season 2 DVDs, but I can't hardly sit through them. It's frustrating, but I can't get past certain events in Season 3 enough to enjoy what they were doing in Season 2 -- not to mention the rampant Rodneyopia that was apparent throughout this season. In "Aurora", it would have made for a far more interesting story and better sense in general for them to have sent Teyla in to the virtual reality to warn Sheppard. Those were the Ancestors, beings she had been taught to revere all her life. The writers could have written a great story about her meeting them "in the flesh" instead of taking the easy way out and writing Rodney drooling over "Wraith!Girl." But, then, that's what these guys are good at, and what they want to see, as JM has told us over, and over again.

That's what I see happening for Season 4, as well. Okay, they've promised us a "major Teyla arc." It's going to revolve around Teyla's "early warning system" Wraith blood, most likely, and it's going to be explosions and CGI and so on. I just don't trust them after this last season--and especially after all their promises about Beckett, and their "wait and see and you'll like it." In another thread I saw where someone said their 8 year old was upset by Beckett's death; my ten year old brings it up every time he sees Carson on the screen now, that he can't believe they killed him off.

I haven't been at GW much at all lately because I've lost heart in the show and am losing heart in the fandom as well. There's a Dalek sitting on my desk now; I'm thinking Torchwood and Dr. Who are far more worth my time than any more of SGA. He**, I might even break down and watch Friday Night Lights as so many of my friends have been begging me to do. *shudder* Then again, maybe not. There's always the old Star Trek reruns or Jeeves & Wooster on DVD.

ShadowMaat
March 21st, 2007, 09:14 AM
When a "major character arc" centers on a female, it usually means she's going to get into a relationship. Because, apparently, the only way to develop a female character is to stick her with a guy and see how she reacts. :rolleyes:

Her boyfriend will probably turn out to be a Replicator or a humanized Wraith or a Genii spy or something to that effect. Or he'll be another Pete Shanahan- a guy who's supposed to be a nice, ordinary guy but who winds up being an atrociously written plot device to keep Teyla away from Sheppard and who'll be just as atrociously written off once he's outlived his usefulness.

I thought the Wraith were too "boring" to bother revisiting. Isn't that why we got the Replicators? :rolleyes:

nonniemous
March 21st, 2007, 09:29 AM
When a "major character arc" centers on a female, it usually means she's going to get into a relationship. Because, apparently, the only way to develop a female character is to stick her with a guy and see how she reacts. :rolleyes:

Ah, so that explains why in Aurora they couldn't use Teyla to warn Sheppard in the Virtual Reality: The Wraith's avatar wasn't a hunky guy! There was no opportunity for UST or dithering over whether or not her ovaries or her brains were going to win out and direct the rest of her life! :mckayanime22: I get it now.


Her boyfriend will probably turn out to be a Replicator or a humanized Wraith or a Genii spy or something to that effect. Or he'll be another Pete Shanahan- a guy who's supposed to be a nice, ordinary guy but who winds up being an atrociously written plot device to keep Teyla away from Sheppard and who'll be just as atrociously written off once he's outlived his usefulness.

Oh, gods, I hadn't even thought about that. Some hunky alien guy, Ronon Take 2, will sweep her off her feet, and ...

Gods, I can't even bring myself to say it. Pete Shanahan was a nightmare from the get go; that TPTB couldn't see that themselves? Yet more indication that they are seriously in need of oxygen and outsourcing at Bridge.


I thought the Wraith were too "boring" to bother revisiting. Isn't that why we got the Replicators? :rolleyes:

Yes, because the Replicators are so thrilling and exciting! Or could have been, in the hands of some other set of story tellers.

Nope, not looking forward to Season 4, not the least bit.

Falcon Horus
March 21st, 2007, 02:10 PM
...and now i have barely opened my season 2 dvds even though i was uber excited to get them.

Same here. I watched the extra's, then I watched Duet and Michael because of Heightmeyer's in these and she's my favorite SGA character, then I watched those episodes with commentary. David Hewlett is hilarious. Watched Critical Mass with commentary because Rachel Luttrell does it. And then I started watching it from the beginning but I haven't made it past disc 1 yet. I just don't feel all excited about watching them. I'm just blah...

I'm not anti-season 4 though, yet I'm not pro-season 4 either. I'm neutral (a little anyway). I'm having a 'wait and see' attitude, but I don't have my hopes too high so that it won't hurt as much when it totally and utterly stinks.

Team SG-1*save the show*
March 21st, 2007, 02:16 PM
cant wait for season 4. i hope they bring carson back!

i just hope tptb focus more on the wraith! they shouldnt have brought in the stupid asurans/relicators. we have more enemies on atlantis than allies, and the allies are all less advanced in this galaxy. its about time we found some powerrful allies that could help get rid of the pesky asurans and fight the wraith

parisindy
March 21st, 2007, 10:07 PM
Same here. I watched the extra's, then I watched Duet and Michael because of Heightmeyer's in these and she's my favorite SGA character, then I watched those episodes with commentary. David Hewlett is hilarious. Watched Critical Mass with commentary because Rachel Luttrell does it. And then I started watching it from the beginning but I haven't made it past disc 1 yet. I just don't feel all excited about watching them. I'm just blah...

i watched conversion thats it, i couldn't even make it to the extras, maybe one day but not yet, i'm still so disappointed, blah is totally the right word. I think even more so since pauls latest message, i just miss him so. And weir to. i am a shep whumper and a carson lover, but this was the first show where i actually loved the entire cast, i didn't just watch it just for shep. Now the whole dynamic is just off. I'm not really an sg-1 fan... sure i've watched, heck even got a few seasons on dvd, but it was far from my fav show, that spot was reserved for shows like farscape, supernatural, andromeda...and atlantis. I realize they get rid of cast members thats normal in a series, but how they did it and how the actors were treated was horrible i expected better from TPTB! then the fact that i strongly dislike all the new characters. And the fact that they were replaced! ack! its so blatant!

You know i probably could have handled the SG-1 people coming over if carson and weir still held their same postions. If the sg-1 people came over with out dislodging what was already established i would have been fine. But now... there are just too many things gone wrong.




cant wait for season 4. i hope they bring carson back!

i just hope tptb focus more on the wraith! they shouldnt have brought in the stupid asurans/relicators. we have more enemies on atlantis than allies, and the allies are all less advanced in this galaxy. its about time we found some powerrful allies that could help get rid of the pesky asurans and fight the wraith

You guys realize this is the anti season 4 thread, right? if you support season 4 this isn't the thread for you

ShadowMaat
March 22nd, 2007, 03:45 AM
And adding on a token "Oh, but I'm worried about this bit" to your "S4 is gonna be awesome!" raves isn't really kosher, either. "Complaints and misgivings ONLY" means exactly that. Respect the thread subject and your fellow posters or find another thread.

I have very little hope for S4. The show seems to be getting shallower and more heavily focused on Shep and McKay to the exclusion of all others. I used to love McKay, but overkill ruined the character for me. There ARE other people on Atlantis. It'd be nice if TPTB could acknowledge that.

parisindy
March 22nd, 2007, 06:29 AM
And adding on a token "Oh, but I'm worried about this bit" to your "S4 is gonna be awesome!" raves isn't really kosher, either. "Complaints and misgivings ONLY" means exactly that. Respect the thread subject and your fellow posters or find another thread.

I have very little hope for S4. The show seems to be getting shallower and more heavily focused on Shep and McKay to the exclusion of all others. I used to love McKay, but overkill ruined the character for me. There ARE other people on Atlantis. It'd be nice if TPTB could acknowledge that.

thank you shadowmaat

and i agree i love rodney but what about ronon and teyla? A weir episode, heck a carson episode? I love my shep but he has more then one team member.

jerkface
March 22nd, 2007, 06:51 PM
I feel like such a fink; I find myself posting only in the anti- threads. Oh well, sometimes you gotta "eat drink and be maudlin."

I haven't watched much of Season 2 in a while; I remember the extras being a bit disappointing though. Many of the commentaries aren't very good at telling you anything you didn't know (I couldn't make it through more than half of one of the Gary Jones/Peter DeLuise poop joke/locker room funfests). I remember the Kindler stuff for Trinity as being good (sadly, another decent writer who's left "the franchise").

I did rewatch some episodes from Season 1 though recently, and it really drove home how bad the show's gotten. It's sad, but I hadn't realized how some of the poorer writing in later seasons had changed my idea of all the characters. The characters in S1 just seem...smarter than they've been lately. Weir's little talk with Sheppard at the end of Hot Zone about trust and civilian leadership reminded me how these used to be real conflicts between the characters, rather than the tired ideas they reiterate in the recent forced situations.

And it really makes me not want to tune in for S4, not just because of the changes they've made and promised, but because I feel like watching the characters get dumber will just wear away more of my affection for them. I'd forgotten how Ford helped balance the team by delivering most of the excited kid lines; it explains why Sheppard and McKay have become so juvenile now that they have to fill that space. I don't really want to see Keller and Carter ape Carson and Weir, and make me dislike all four.

nowvoyager908
March 22nd, 2007, 07:00 PM
I agree with you, not about being a fink ;) , but because season 1 was so good and with the exception of a couple of good episodes, TPTB just seem to have wandered off the path in seasons 2 and 3. I think part of the problem is that the chemistry between Sheppard and McKay was so good, TPTB wrote for them to the exclusion of all others. And what they did write sometimes seemed more like an Abbott and Costello comedy routine than dialogue to move the story along or flesh out the characters. You know, kind of like an intergalactic "Who's on first". LOL.

jerkface
March 22nd, 2007, 07:14 PM
And what they did write sometimes seemed more like an Abbott and Costello comedy routine than dialogue to move the story along or flesh out the characters. You know, kind of like an intergalactic "Who's on first". LOL.

Oy, it's true. If Hewlett were shorter, they'd even be physically like A&C. I hate to say it, because I really used to find that whole interaction funny, and I do think they're both good actors, but the last two seasons have even made me sick of them. I don't want to see more of "40 minutes with David Hewlett & Friend."

nonniemous
March 22nd, 2007, 07:17 PM
I did rewatch some episodes from Season 1 though recently, and it really drove home how bad the show's gotten. It's sad, but I hadn't realized how some of the poorer writing in later seasons had changed my idea of all the characters. The characters in S1 just seem...smarter than they've been lately. Weir's little talk with Sheppard at the end of Hot Zone about trust and civilian leadership reminded me how these used to be real conflicts between the characters, rather than the tired ideas they reiterate in the recent forced situations.

I just had this discussion with a couple of friends on Live Journal. They're John and Rodney fans, so they don't see what I do in the show, this dumbing down of the characters, Beckett and Weir and so on being rewritten to serve the plot rather than letting the plot spool out from the characters' reactions to situations, and more. It's hard to watch First Season because of how good the show was then. Second season is painful because of the unbalanced Rodney focus and the pod!Carson and pod!Weir that showed up for "Michael" and "Allies"--and Third season, while it has one of my favorite SGA Episodes, ever, "Phantoms", just...hurts. It's so uneven and so "John + Rodney's Treehouse!" over all. And then there's "Sunday"... *whimper*

And they expect me to want to tune in for Season 4, to watch Carter and Keller bounce along with John and Rodney in their treehouse? Er....No?

BTW, if you haven't seen the news, evidently Joe Mallozzi promised the SaveCarsonBeckett folks today that if they could their campaign mentioned on one of the major entertainment shows (E! and others of such ilk) that he would bring Carson back for two episodes in the back half of season 4. At this point, I feel more like that's a threat than a promise.

ShadowMaat
March 22nd, 2007, 07:33 PM
Yeah, I'd say be careful what you wish for.

Compare the early seasons of SG-1 with the latter seasons. It used to be a fairly serious show. Not on the level of BSG, maybe, but certainly not the comical romp it became in later seasons. That... infection has unfortunately been passed on to Atlantis. What's even MORE unfortunate is that Atlantis didn't have nearly as much time as SG-1 to be a serious show before beginning its mutation into a farce. Now that M&M are in charge of the show the transformation will be complete.

And let's not sully the good names of Abbot and Costello, those guys were actually funny. :P This stuff they're trying to dish up on Atlantis tends to be more embarrassing than amusing. Give me the intelligent, rational characters I loved in S1 and I'll be happy. But I think we all know that isn't going to happen.

jerkface
March 22nd, 2007, 07:45 PM
BTW, if you haven't seen the news, evidently Joe Mallozzi promised the SaveCarsonBeckett folks today that if they could their campaign mentioned on one of the major entertainment shows (E! and others of such ilk) that he would bring Carson back for two episodes in the back half of season 4. At this point, I feel more like that's a threat than a promise.

Uck. I have to stop myself from reading Mallozzi's blog, it is like consciously eating food I am allergic to, and then being upset about the rash. I'm going to say that's definitely a threat, rather than a promise. It would either be alternate universe Beckett (when they did that with Janet, I was just saddened), or Beckett-in-someone's-head, either way more of a tease than a resolution or a change.

I'm not sure how to react to all the J&R love. I understand it, and I even think if I'd never seen the first season, I'd be there, but personally I can't get past the change from what they used to be.

And I often feel like John has become more of a pretty stand-in for the viewer, rather than a real character, which cheapens even some of the better, more serious J&R interaction. The final scenes in Trinity were well done, but since I felt like John wasn't much of a character at that point, it seemed more like Rodney was apologizing to the audience.

And that's my problem with most of the character development they've given R. over the last two years—it's a sight better than anything they've done for their other characters, but it feels like "the normalization of Rodney McKay" (i.e. let's give him a sister, or a girlfriend, or a terminal illness so that he'll be forced to see how he should become more like the rest of our cypher-characters).


And let's not sully the good names of Abbot and Costello, those guys were actually funny. This stuff they're trying to dish up on Atlantis tends to be more embarrassing than amusing.

Oh but next Season they'll have Carter, and her interactions with McKay are never embarrassing... (Is there a bitter sarcasm smiley?)

parisindy
March 22nd, 2007, 10:20 PM
I agree with you, not about being a fink ;) , but because season 1 was so good and with the exception of a couple of good episodes, TPTB just seem to have wandered off the path in seasons 2 and 3. I think part of the problem is that the chemistry between Sheppard and McKay was so good, TPTB wrote for them to the exclusion of all others. And what they did write sometimes seemed more like an Abbott and Costello comedy routine than dialogue to move the story along or flesh out the characters. You know, kind of like an intergalactic "Who's on first". LOL.

i actually think there was some true and brilliant moments in season 3, but going in to the end ... sunday and first strike! *shudder and barf*

i loved sateda and common ground, though i hated that shep did have any repercussions from that episode, the same with the return 2. ( i don't think that was spoilerish was it?)


I feel like such a fink; I find myself posting only in the anti- threads. Oh well, sometimes you gotta "eat drink and be maudlin."

i feel kind of the same way, i feel left behind cause i am not pro season 4, i totally feel like i got kicked out of the cool kid club.

and i'm tired of people telling me to suck it up...if i want to pout i'm going to pout ! lol
i lick my nose at them!http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/tongue2.gif


i'm so glad people are posting here ... i am glad not to be the lone poster anymore lol

parisindy
March 22nd, 2007, 10:31 PM
I just had this discussion with a couple of friends on Live Journal. They're John and Rodney fans, so they don't see what I do in the show, this dumbing down of the characters, Beckett and Weir and so on being rewritten to serve the plot rather than letting the plot spool out from the characters' reactions to situations, and more. It's hard to watch First Season because of how good the show was then. Second season is painful because of the unbalanced Rodney focus and the pod!Carson and pod!Weir that showed up for "Michael" and "Allies"--and Third season, while it has one of my favorite SGA Episodes, ever, "Phantoms", just...hurts. It's so uneven and so "John + Rodney's Treehouse!" over all. And then there's "Sunday"... *whimper*

see i am a john fan first and for most, but what i loved about this show over all is the team, i am interested in how john works with the team, i love the idea of john being head of the military when he wasn't planning on it, a maverick that has to follow the lead of the civilians, man that alone should have kept the writers going for years! With him and Weir figuring stuff out making mistakes, working as a team to over come problems, never mind carson and the retrovirus... i mourn the stories that could have been.


Heck i probably won't even get them in fan fic anymore now that everyone has been promised whump in season 4

but as much as i love shep, he's not enough to make me keep watching, his interactions with his team (and the whump of course) where what interested me, without carson and most likey weir... i mean whats the point, and i certainly don't give a rats about the new characters


BTW, if you haven't seen the news, evidently Joe Mallozzi promised the SaveCarsonBeckett folks today that if they could their campaign mentioned on one of the major entertainment shows (E! and others of such ilk) that he would bring Carson back for two episodes in the back half of season 4. At this point, I feel more like that's a threat than a promise.

oh man, really that feels more like a slap in the face then anything. After they told him they were killing his character off over the freaking phone! gah! Poor poor paul *sob*


Uck. I have to stop myself from reading Mallozzi's blog, it is like consciously eating food I am allergic to, and then being ups about the rash.

gad i know that feeling... i've tried to walk away so many time... only with GW not Mallozzi's blog, this place is addictive



Oh but next Season they'll have Carter, and her interactions with McKay are never embarrassing... (Is there a bitter sarcasm smiley?)

gads... thats all i have to add to that...gads.

i wonder that with his new show if david may not be around much, and it will be all sam.
it wouldn't surprise me at all

Falcon Horus
March 23rd, 2007, 12:53 PM
(Is there a bitter sarcasm smiley?)

I really wish there was one. I could definitely use it. :D


i'm so glad people are posting here ... i am glad not to be the lone poster anymore lol

You're not alone...
And I solemnly swear I'm up to no good... I mean, I solemnly swear not to start a riot...like I managed to do in the Season 4 best season thread, completely unintentionally, I swear. :mckay:

Celcool
March 23rd, 2007, 02:47 PM
I can't believe I haven't posted in this thread yet. TPTB killed the love I had for this show by making IMO bad casting decisions. I won't watch the episodes without Elizabeth, I hope I'll have at least half of them to watch. Still, it's not nearly enough. Before we found out about Torri's recurring status I was complaining how she's not seen much in some episodes of back half of season 3 and what have we got now? At least she was one of the main characters back then. I can safely say that they've ruined the show for the large majority of Elizabeth and John/Liz shippers who know about recent events. I'm one of them. Thank you very much!

ToasterOnFire
March 23rd, 2007, 04:48 PM
BTW, if you haven't seen the news, evidently Joe Mallozzi promised the SaveCarsonBeckett folks today that if they could their campaign mentioned on one of the major entertainment shows (E! and others of such ilk) that he would bring Carson back for two episodes in the back half of season 4. At this point, I feel more like that's a threat than a promise.
Joe M. has handed out an empty promise. Has SGA ever been featured on one of those major entertainment shows period? Not that I can recall, and I don't see why the shows would start now.


I'd forgotten how Ford helped balance the team by delivering most of the excited kid lines;
I still miss Ford for exactly that reason. The expedition was in a new city in a new galaxy with new allies and enemies! Season 1 gave more of a sense of amazement and awe at where they were and Ford was an outlet for those feelings. Now it's so ho-hum and it feels like TPTB aren't really stretching their creativity when they invent a new group for the team to stumble upon. I'm so tired of the medieval theme. :mckay:

parisindy
March 23rd, 2007, 06:16 PM
You're not alone...
And I solemnly swear I'm up to no good... I mean, I solemnly swear not to start a riot...like I managed to do in the Season 4 best season thread, completely unintentionally, I swear. :mckay:

hehe well you are not alone either as i seem to be really good as pissing people off lately to...

maybe we should just have a protest... i got some placards

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/protest.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/sign1.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/sign2.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/sign3.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/sign4.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/sign5.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/protest.gif


I can't believe I haven't posted in this thread yet. TPTB killed the love I had for this show by making IMO bad casting decisions. I won't watch the episodes without Elizabeth, I hope I'll have at least half of them to watch. Still, it's not nearly enough. Before we found out about Torri's recurring status I was complaining how she's not seen much in some episodes of back half of season 3 and what have we got now? At least she was one of the main characters back then. I can safely say that they've ruined the show for the large majority of Elizabeth and John/Liz shippers who know about recent events. I'm one of them. Thank you very much!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/bearhug.gif

parisindy
March 23rd, 2007, 06:24 PM
Joe M. has handed out an empty promise. Has SGA ever been featured on one of those major entertainment shows period? Not that I can recall, and I don't see why the shows would start now.

does Joe even have the power to promise such a thing?



I still miss Ford for exactly that reason. The expedition was in a new city in a new galaxy with new allies and enemies! Season 1 gave more of a sense of amazement and awe at where they were and Ford was an outlet for those feelings. Now it's so ho-hum and it feels like TPTB aren't really stretching their creativity when they invent a new group for the team to stumble upon. I'm so tired of the medieval theme. :mckay:

i had this conversation with my friend twinchy, i like ford and i like ronan imagine if we could have had both i can see ronan adopting ford hehe and both of them driving shep and rodney nuts! hehe i would have paid for that!
man! hehe imagine teyla with all those boys to whip in to shape... man i serisously mourn what could have been

there was so much potential with what they had... how could they not see it?

sgaaddict
March 24th, 2007, 03:24 AM
I am very sceptical towards season 4, here are my reasons:

-will they will off Sam like they did for Beckett?
-Because they want Torri leaving the show but she is an excellent actress (I knew it, look for the episode The real world, season 3)
-because sheppard and joe flanigan make me sick
-because characters like ronon, teyla or elizabeth are under-estimated.
and the storylines are not as strong as SG-1.

ShadowMaat
March 24th, 2007, 03:47 AM
I don't think Sam's in any sort of danger- she's from the Almighty SG-1 and they are perfect and godlike and will live forever. :rolleyes:

The actual Atlantis team, however... Shep and McKay are the only ones who are completely safe, and even then things could change if one of the actors decides to bail.

parisindy
March 24th, 2007, 11:25 AM
i love the shep! shep whump rocks! but sadly whump alone does not make a team or a show.

what good are shep owies with out carson to make him better and without weir to lecture and worry?

and really sam is like another rodney..do we need two? i like rodney better, and really they barely had enough real tech things for him to do. I can't help to think that there will be way less radek and a result as well

give me rodney and zelenka over sam anyday! And what? 10 seasons weren't enough to expolore her character? I really think she doesn't have anything new to offer? How is this shaking things up? Just seems more of the same to me, more of the same SG-1 and that is what annoys me.

i like atlantis not sg-1

what was your fav episode of atlantis and why? How could TPTB made more like it?

Falcon Horus
March 24th, 2007, 01:16 PM
I don't think Sam's in any sort of danger- she's from the Almighty SG-1 and they are perfect and godlike and will live forever. :rolleyes:

Of course, they have their own pantheon... They are Gods and we should worship them... NOT!

Well, maybe a little... :bow:


maybe we should just have a protest... i got some placards

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/protest.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/sign1.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/sign2.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/sign3.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/sign4.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/sign5.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/protest.gif

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/bearhug.gif

Hehehe, the look great. :zelenka25:

parisindy
March 24th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Of course, they have their own pantheon... They are Gods and we should worship them... NOT!

Well, maybe a little... :bow:

hehehheehe




Hehehe, the look great. :zelenka25:

thanks! http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/bearhug.gif

huntress
March 25th, 2007, 01:28 AM
Thank goodness there is also an anti-season four thread. All those people who gush over how wonderful the lame duck "First Strike" is and how excited they are about Carter joining make me want to shoot something.

I haven't seen all of season one because I started watching when it was half over (I AM going to get myself the season one DVD box soon though) from what I have seen I liked the two parter "The Storm" best, which was incidentally the the first episode I saw and the one that drew me into SGA. So far I can't remember any other storyline from season two or three that comes even close to it. I know that it had elements of "Die Hard" in it but I just loved that it showed how efficient Rodney and his team worked to make Atlantis safe and later on shep playing cat and mouse with Kolya. I also loved the peisode in which Rodney and John are stranded with that Wraith on the dessert planet (sorry but I forgot the title). I thought that the first half of season two also lived up to my expectations but then the stories became more meaningless, superficial and in many ways more steroetypical. Does anyone know why there was such a sharp quality drop after the first half? It would really interest me.

ShadowMaat
March 25th, 2007, 08:38 AM
I also loved the peisode in which Rodney and John are stranded with that Wraith on the dessert planet...
Mmm... I would love to land on a dessert planet, particularly one that favored chocolate! :D

But as for the one on the desert planet, it was Defiant One and I agree, it was a good ep, particularly for Rodney. I only wish they'd kept up that sort of development for him instead of playing him as a more competent, egomaniacal version of Felger. *sigh*

I think another massive strike against the show is partly Skiffy's fault- the way they chose to advertise The Tower made a bad ep that much worse.

What scares me most about the bad eps, though, is that they tend to number among the favorites of TPTB. Joe, in fact, has gone on record as saying that Irresistible is one of his top picks for the season and since he's now in charge of the show... I can only imagine what new degradations the characters (and fans) will have to face in the upcoming season. If that's TPTB's idea of good humor, there's no hope for the show.

BeckettRulez
March 25th, 2007, 09:38 AM
What scares me most about the bad eps, though, is that they tend to number among the favorites of TPTB. Joe, in fact, has gone on record as saying that Irresistible is one of his top picks for the season and since he's now in charge of the show... I can only imagine what new degradations the characters (and fans) will have to face in the upcoming season. If that's TPTB's idea of good humor, there's no hope for the show.

In my opinion is "Irrestistable" the worst episode of the whole season, if not of all seasons together. I hated it... I guess, TPTB have a very strange perception of these things... My favorite in this season was "McKay and Mrs. Miller" even if there was no Carson...

parisindy
March 25th, 2007, 10:54 AM
my fav of the season was sateda and common ground,"Irrestistable" was just odd in its lack of depth and continuity.

Koyla was a pretty cool bad guy and then his death just seemed so arbitrary, anti climactic. Really it kind of cheapened all that went before.

truly "Irrestistable" just wasn't a good episode, but for the truly bad and stinky First strike and sunday win hands down.

i keep hearing how everyone loved the cgi in first strike but i wasn't wowed by it, maybe i'm a bit jaded, i think the best bit of cgi was rodney saying goodbye to carson on the peir, it was a beautiful moment, even if the rest of the eppy stunk to high heaven, and i refuse to let carson die. If i don't watch season four my atlantis will always have carson and weir *yes i am in denile but i like it here *

first strike failed in whatever its purpose was.
really the whole premise of leaving the planet and going to space would have been awesome if they hadn't decided to dump half their cast to do it... really thats the part i'm really having touble getting past.

the new doctor…yuck. She seems flakey, okay I didn’t have much time to form a proper opinion, what happened to Dr. Biro? Wasn’t she next in line? Maybe I have just resolved to dislike her but I miss Carson and I’m sorry I may never like her for that reason alone.

where is Heightmeyer? yet another character they could have/should have developed.

That takes us to the rest of the story…which was completely annoying.

Okay first Colonel Ellis…erg! Where’s Caldwell? This guy is a jerk. Why did they send this new guy and not Caldwell? He says he doesn’t like Weir but says he respects her…baloney! If he respected her he would have asked before beaming down…its called being polite. …. Mission or military or whatever, its still a civilian run operation, and his mission was outside of Atlantis he has no authority on atlantis. This was her base not his.

Second, I know Ellis asked shep to go but did he really or was it an order? He is obviously trying to get shep on his side by saying that shep should run Atlantis and not weir and by asking him to come on the mission etc.

Shep did defend Weir a bit but I am disappointed in him for not saying more in her defense...have they not been working closely together for 3 years? And really aren’t they supposed to be friends?

This takes me to my next point… okay I know shep is the main star of Atlantis… and the military leader, but I don’t want him in charge. I love the underdog and shep, with his record and everything was the underdog. And now they are taking that away from him. What does he have to rise above now?

To me it seemed really Shep was playing the part of Ellis’ puppet and that didn’t sit well with me at all. Where was my firey pissy Shep?

Next the explosion and the flying of Atlantis.

Loved the sinking of Atlantis and I loved Elizabeth watching it. Loved Rodney’s comment about coming full circle. But really that made the fact that she was watching it alone all the more sad.

The flying of Atlantis… was totally ..nothing… I was like 'who cares'… one unimpressive shot of it flying with the shield. I expected more from that.

I did like shep’s nervousness about flying it …I wish they would have shown more of the strain it was taking on him…it couldn’t have been easy.
Then the beam hitting the gate room. Oh look the blew up Elizabeth… let me see where I have I seen this before…let me think… oh yeah... WHEN THEY BLEW UP CARSON!
Sheesh couldn’t they have at least made it different? And was that to be her swan song,... sadly i think they've done her an injustice.. now will she will as reoccurring as ford i think... two episodes in 2 years.

Then after the exsplosion three seconds of shep looking slightly concerned then that’s it. Man I got to say I’m disappointed. Elizabeth deserved better

And so they are moving to a new planet…what about the Athosians?… and why wasn’t Teyla concerned about them, and oh man I love Telya but they made her seem so snippy over the fantastic four comment. Rodney is much more Mr fantastic anyways… shep is totally the human torch.

The highlights of this episode…. Chuck getting a name ( I gotta say I’m smitten with Chuck) and shep being nervous about flying Atlantis...and looking hot in the black uniform.

Other then that… two big thumbs down.

all the characters just seemed off...

and we all know whats going to happen in the next episode...

sam carter with swoop in with her nice new shiney ship and save the day... swell i can't wait...oh wait i can... so not watching season 4

I liked Weir, I loved Carson. I don't like the new Doctor and I don't like Carter coming over.
It will seem like a whole new show and I liked the old one just fine. I think I will prefer to remember the show the way it was.

I guess I knew the changes were coming and i knew i wasn't going to like them at all, but i think i could have accepted them if they had showed a little more respect to Paul, Torri and heck even Mitch. Through out the show most of the characters just seemed off, i didn't Like the JS character and man that ellis guy? he was just so grating and disrespectful.

heck even the lovely Teyla seemed snippy... thats not the Teyla i love. Never mind my poor John. Even Zelenka seemed Down.

everything just seemed off, if this is setting the mood for season 4 i can't say i'm interested watching. I like this show to much to watch it jump the shark.

its the first fandom i have really felt apart of since andromeda

I watch a show for its characters, if there is a constant rotation, where as soon as i like a character they are blown up or reduced to barely appearing, or changed so much i barely reconize them in the course of two episodes, how am i suppose to keep relating to the show?

I can handle change that is done with due cause, respect, and that which suits the natural flow of the story. This felt like the house cleaning it was, with little hommage to the characters and the episodes that have previously been set up.

I really want to keep liking the show, but i can't support whats been done ...well enough said

worst episode ever



and hey my post from yesterday was missing, it wasn't a bad post at all why is it gone?

ShadowMaat
March 25th, 2007, 12:09 PM
I think posts relating to our latest troll were all deleted.

parisindy
March 25th, 2007, 12:11 PM
I think posts relating to our latest troll were all deleted.


its weird though cause i mean our posts could have been independent of the troll. they weren't negative posts...

Falcon Horus
March 25th, 2007, 12:24 PM
Thank goodness there is also an anti-season four thread. All those people who gush over how wonderful the lame duck "First Strike" is and how excited they are about Carter joining make me want to shoot something.

I actually liked First Strike so I can't agree about that (wasn't wow'ed by the CGI-nuke the planet though,...loved the beam better, especially when it grazes the city ... it's an 'oh no'-moment).

But I do agree with the last part though...the bolded part.

Celcool
March 25th, 2007, 12:35 PM
I can agree about that bolded part as well. I don't believe how insensitive people can be, as long as they see their precious Sam, who cares about the actress whose show it really is. Make more room for Sam! Why not creating a show that features only her? I'm so tired of those people who have what they want and now they feel the need to dismiss everything a person who is upset with where the show is heading says and state just the opposite...

ShadowMaat
March 25th, 2007, 01:00 PM
its weird though cause i mean our posts could have been independent of the troll. they weren't negative posts...

The thread is for the discussion of our fears, doubts and general complaints concerning season 4, not for commentary about other fans, their opinions, or their attitudes.

Having just read up on the newest Stargate spinoff, it sounds as if there really IS no hope for the future of the franchise. I actually wondered for a moment if Weir might be one of the characters spun off for the new show, but that's a ridiculously optimistic thought and even if they did all it would be used for is an excuse to create crossovers between Atlantis and "Universe." And we all know what a lovely job they've done with crossovers so far. :rolleyes:

nowvoyager908
March 25th, 2007, 01:51 PM
What scares me most about the bad eps, though, is that they tend to number among the favorites of TPTB. Joe, in fact, has gone on record as saying that Irresistible is one of his top picks for the season and since he's now in charge of the show... I can only imagine what new degradations the characters (and fans) will have to face in the upcoming season. If that's TPTB's idea of good humor, there's no hope for the show.

OMG. And this is the guy many fans have blind faith will deliver a good show and won't screw up royally? SGA is doomed. LOL.

nonniemous
March 25th, 2007, 05:00 PM
What scares me most about the bad eps, though, is that they tend to number among the favorites of TPTB. Joe, in fact, has gone on record as saying that Irresistible is one of his top picks for the season and since he's now in charge of the show... I can only imagine what new degradations the characters (and fans) will have to face in the upcoming season. If that's TPTB's idea of good humor, there's no hope for the show.

They keep reiterating that they make the show they want to see, and ratings have dropped and continue to drop. And yet TPTB don't seem to get the message that maybe the show they want to see isn't one that interests too many other people?

:beckettanime14:

I liked Irresistable in the end just because the cast seemed to be having so much fun with it. But last season we were supposed to get "team moments and camaraderie." What I actually saw was a lot of "John+Rodney's Treehouse and their pals!" scenes--even entire episodes, all masquerading as "team moments and camaraderie."

They should just call next season's show "Atlantis SG1 Extreme!" and be done with it.

parisindy
March 25th, 2007, 09:29 PM
They should just call next season's show "Atlantis SG1 Extreme!" and be done with it.

HAHAHAHA!

nonniemous
March 25th, 2007, 11:30 PM
One more reason to have misgivings about Season 4 with M&M at the helm:

We were watching SG1's "The Fourth Horseman" tonight, and the scene where Jackson and Mitchell confront the Prior? For a few minutes there I wasn't sure what show I was watching. They went into their snarky "cutesy" smart a$$ dialog and they might as well have been John and Rodney. I could close my eyes and yup, it sounded exactly like something Rodney and John would be saying. Totally interchangeable dialog--which is hardly a selling point for what are supposed to be entirely separate characters (at least where Rodney and Daniel are concerned) and universes.

Guess who wrote "The Fourth Horseman?" Yup, M&M. They can't even write original dialog for their characters, let alone their penchant for mining movie scripts and presenting them as "homage" episodes.

Nope, not looking forward to Season Four of Atlantis (SG1) Extreme! in the least.

Falcon Horus
March 26th, 2007, 05:55 AM
My sister and I had a funky discussion about the cast changes in s4 and the new show...we came to the following conclusion:

SG aka Stargate the movie is the prequel.
SG1 aka Stargate SG1 is the middle part.
SG(A) 2 aka Stargate Atlantis is the sequel.

And as such we have the Stargate Trilogy. It will be a smashing hit in the eyes of TPTB but what will the fans say? Stay tuned to find out more, after the break (which can take up to 6 months).

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to feel that TPTB are going to hit a brick wall...and when they do there won't be a way back. They either admit they made a huge mistake and rectify it, or their show gets the axe (option n°2 seems to be the most plausible at the moment).

parisindy
March 26th, 2007, 09:55 PM
man i hate crossover but if there had to be one why couldn't we have vala instead, she wouldn't have had to bump anyone and i think she would have fit in better then same.

what i think is sad to is that all the fanfic will now be about season 4, i'm not going to have anything to read.

thank goodness for supenatural fanfic!

ShadowMaat
March 27th, 2007, 03:48 AM
Vala? On Atlantis? HELL NO! We have had many "last straws" on Atlantis recently, but that would outright kill it. Forever. No going back. The show would be so completely and thoroughly destroyed, so stripped of integrity, so devoid of morality and so overwhelmingly vapid that it would effectively die on the spot. There would never again be any hope of saving the show and no chance that things might get better. It'd be beyond scraping the bottom of the barrel, it'd be digging into the sludge beneath the barrel.

Vala is the antithesis of all that Atlantis is and all that it could be. She's nothing but a joke, and not a very good one at that, IMO. Her coming to Atlantis would serve no real, plot-relevant purpose at all. I'd buy Siler crossing over before I'd buy Vala; Siler, at least, is a semi-rational character.

And if you think some eps have been over the top before, they'd be NOTHING compared with the extreme level of BS that would result from Vala's presence. What possible, realistic purpose could she serve, other than to act as yet another "frak you" reminder of SG-1's existence? Every tie she has is to SG-1 and the few valid (or vaguely valid) points to her character's existence are ALL related to SG-1, the Ori and events in the Milky Way galaxy. Bring Vala and she'd bring her baggage with her. No thank you.

I may hate what the show has become, but if I were to find anything good to say about the upcoming season, it'd be "At least Vala won't be in it."

Curtis
March 27th, 2007, 05:04 AM
Ah Atlantis, how I miss thee.

Season 1 held so much promise - especially the second half from The Storm onwards. The inhabitants had a focus, a reason to put themselves in harms way and explore. Now it seems they just exist, making questionable decisions and leaping 'round the screen in action-figure poses. An ensemble cast of GI Joes.

I really think this show has lost its spark, kinda like the first episode of SG1, season 8, where Jack made the joke about T'ealc playing a Jaffa on TV. It wasn't funny and SG1 is not a show where the fourth wall needs to be broken, yet the gag spoke volumes of the quality of the writers (actually, I have no idea who wrote that episode, but their style has rubbed off on SG:A if nothing else). I'm not sure when this "yep, the show's gone" moment happened in SG:A, but it seems to have existed for at least most of season 3 and I expect it to continue into season 4.

The quality of writing just isn't there. Dialogue is fairly uninspiring at the best of times and plots come pre-packed with holes large enough to pilot an Aurora class warship through. Even when they get a concept right, the episode is ruined somehow. Take for example, The Ark. Great idea, powerful execution of key plot points, but ruined by the ridiculous antics of GI Sheppard. (sure, let's safely pilot a fuel-less, 400 year old alien space vessel - never seen before by humans - through a burning asteroid, through a planets atmosphere at terminal velocity and crash onto a continent - also never seen before by humans - without totally destroying said space vessel, or even sustaining a scratch). Seriously, an ending that corny I struggle to remember that the episode actually had some really good moments.

Consistency is the key. Consistency of character, consistency of plot (even consistency of plot devices would be nice - personal shield, I'm glaring at you!). I don't think the writers can do it all without breaking something else.

GateLadyM
March 27th, 2007, 09:25 AM
Thank goodness there is also an anti-season four thread. All those people who gush over how wonderful the lame duck "First Strike" is and how excited they are about Carter joining make me want to shoot something.

I'm so tired of going through episode threads and seeing the comments:

"OMG, THE SPECIAL EFFECTS WHERE INCREDIBLE!!! THIS EPISODE ROCKS!!! THIS WAS THE BEST EVER!!!"

Since when do effects make an episode (or anything for that matter) better? If there is no story or character development, then it is a crummy show.

Same goes for those few who gush, "OMG HE/SHE IS SO HOT!" Nevermind that the character is the same week after week and he or she can be downright boring. As long as they look HOT, they are just the greatest thing since sliced bread.

If Mallozzi and Co. can find a way to flesh out characters and not depend so much on effects and hot, young actors/actresses, maybe we'll have a good show again, but with his comments about "Irresistible", I'm not so sure.

jenks
March 27th, 2007, 09:55 AM
I'm so tired of going through episode threads and seeing the comments:

"OMG, THE SPECIAL EFFECTS WHERE INCREDIBLE!!! THIS EPISODE ROCKS!!! THIS WAS THE BEST EVER!!!"

Since when do effects make an episode (or anything for that matter) better? If there is no story or character development, then it is a crummy show.

Same goes for those few who gush, "OMG HE/SHE IS SO HOT!" Nevermind that the character is the same week after week and he or she can be downright boring. As long as they look HOT, they are just the greatest thing since sliced bread.

If Mallozzi and Co. can find a way to flesh out characters and not depend so much on effects and hot, young actors/actresses, maybe we'll have a good show again, but with his comments about "Irresistible", I'm not so sure.

Different people like the show for different reasons, you don't decide what makes a show crummy and what doesn't.

FoolishPleasure
March 27th, 2007, 11:29 AM
Different people like the show for different reasons, you don't decide what makes a show crummy and what doesn't.
I tend to agree with GL. I find STORY and CHARACTERIZATION much more important than blowing up stuff. I get tired of some people who ramble on about how gorgeous someone is (looks don't make a person interesting to me), or how an episode is the "best" simply because it has great CGI. IMO, SGA is focusing too much on special effects and "pretty" people lately.

dana
March 27th, 2007, 12:43 PM
I loved SGA season 1, especially the second half. It won my heart over SG-1. I think season 2 was pretty good except a few episodes like The Tower or Epiphany. I was optimistic for season 3 but jeeez, the first ep I just though 'oh hey, that was predictable'. I liked *seven* episodes out of twenty from season 3. I was dozing off during Irresponsible and The Ark. Then there were the characters rumors and I got more pessimistic about it. I sat through Sunday and First Strike, dreading what I knew was bound to happen.

Now all those spoilers that keep floating around, I ain't no longer watching because I don't need this. I love Carter, but on SG-1. I was against her coming to Atlantis from the very beginning.

I have to say I agree with GateLadyM (and pretty much the rest of you), I'm, too, tired of the 'OMG look at those special effects', the McKay/Sheppard show, the fairly predictableness (is that a word?) of the plot, how the female characters are written (or not written so it seems)...I could go on and on and on.

The thing is, the show doesn't need 'fresh blood' or 'soft reset', I think it needs better writing. And of course there's the "smart" move bringing Carter to Atlantis in order to gain more viewers from the SG-1/AT fans. I know people who are heavily into SG-1 and AT and when I told them in the beginning that SGA is a great show and they should watch it, they said 'nah, pffft, it's stupid.' But what do they do now? Yeah. Since the moment they knew AT was going to be on SGA, they went and watched all episodes of SGA to fill in the plots and such.

I guess tptb got what they wanted in some extent. They brought over SG-1's fans but how many people will it drive from watching SGA? I'm afraid not many. People mainly watch for CGI and shooting and villains and stuff. There are only a few people that really do care about characterization and their interaction and relationships.

I'm sad that it came down to this, but it's been fun while it lasted. :sheppardanime32:

PS: Sorry I got a bit carried out. :o

ShadowMaat
March 27th, 2007, 12:47 PM
Well, there was a CGI scene in one of the first eps of this season's BSG which I thought was one of the most ass kickingest moments of the series. Sure, the story was great- very tight and tensiony- and the character stuff was good, too, but if I had to pick one of the coolest moments, it'd be that CGI bit. Partly because, yes, it just looked awesome, but also because I felt it was a great illustration of the storyline as a whole: that moment summed up what it was all about in a way that words couldn't have.

I do, however, think there's a difference between the clever use of CGI to add to a story and the desperate use of CGI to fill in the lack of story and that is the field in which Atlantis is currently mired. Sure, the FX can look really cool (because Rainmaker rocks the casbah), but if the quality of the writing doesn't support the quality of the CGI... *shrug* If folks are consistently raving more about the FX than about the story then it's probably because that's the only thing they CAN rave about.

parisindy
March 27th, 2007, 03:42 PM
i like vala i don't know who the other person is... i don't really like sg1 that much.

but atlantis has become a joke i don't see how it could possibly be saved at this point no matter what they did. I mean even bringing carson back for two episodes is not going to save it.

to me its all about characters, i do appreciate hotness, but i need character development to keep me and really i didn't find the CGI all that special i actually expect more

the sinking was okay, but the flight was just m'eh.

What would it take to save it?

I don't know that it could... i mean sure at one time but now?

ShadowMaat
March 27th, 2007, 04:46 PM
What would it take to save it?
Fire Mallozzi & Mullie. Fire Coop. Fire pretty much every writer that isn't Martin Gero or Carl Binder. In fact, get restraining orders against M&M and Coop so that they can't come near the set or in any way interfere with production. Then go out and find a new batch of writers with fresh ideas and fresh perspectives (and at least a few with solid experience under their belts) to salvage what they can from the mess.

It might not be enough, but frankly it'd be hard for them to do worse (although I have no doubt that our glorious new exec producers will find all kinds of ways to sink the show to new lows).

Pharaoh Atem
March 27th, 2007, 04:57 PM
What would it take to save it?



hire rick bermen he did wonders for star trek. :D

honeslty being in ron moore :cool:

Willow'sCat
March 27th, 2007, 05:03 PM
Fire Mallozzi & Mullie. Fire Coop. Fire pretty much every writer that isn't Martin Gero or Carl Binder. I would fire Carl as well, he really is so old school and by that I mean he wallows in boring standard TV fair when it comes to his stories.

I know I am just about the only one who seemed to have thought "Critical Mass" was rubbish but I stand by it, and nothing from him since has set my world on fire. :cool:

I agree, get rid of M&M. God please! I would say make Martin Gero the show runner but then he has a habit of annoying me *being very polite in saying that* where McKay is concerned so I think I would end up hating his "direction for the show" in the long run. Also he lacks a certain amount of maturity in his writing much in the same way I see from Joe M and Paul M. In fact for me that is probably one of the main reasons for hating the bulk of their stories, this isn't meant to be "Animal House" but sometimes I do wonder if they even think females are worth more then their looks. :cool: *stopping there, treading on dangerous ground*

I don't know, I am just waiting for SciFi to say they want Ben added to the cast. I would not put it past them, heck wouldn't put it past M&M and definitely not past Brad or Rob.

I pity the poor suckers who want a third series. That is a train wreak waiting to happen. :cool: :rolleyes:

Is Joss Whedon doing anything now Wonder Women is a no go for him??? :D :D :D

nonniemous
March 27th, 2007, 06:42 PM
I would say make Martin Gero the show runner but then he has a habit of annoying me *being very polite in saying that* where McKay is concerned so I think I would end up hating his "direction for the show" in the long run. Also he lacks a certain amount of maturity in his writing

I have to agree. I've had to bite my tongue any number of times on the Carson threads when people gush about Martin Gero and his "avid" support of Mr. McGillion. As far as I'm concerned, he's the major contributor to the one-particular-character-centric Season 2; he never seemed to be able to write Carson as anything but a cranky buffoon, and I really don't like his scripts. I like Binder's better because they seem to incorporate the entire cast in true ensemble style. But with all the fingers in the pie it wouldn't matter if they did add a stellar writer or three to the staff; their contributions would get twisted and watered down by the rest of the Old Boys.

nowvoyager908
March 27th, 2007, 07:13 PM
What would it take to save it?

I don't know that it could... i mean sure at one time but now?


I think a new group of writers with some fresh ideas is a must . . . to state the obvious. LOL. But actually, I think they need to get some writers who want to write a show called Stargate Atlantis. Not SG1: Atlantis or SG1 Redux or Carter Explains It All . . .just simply, Stargate Atlantis.

IMHO, the biggest problem seems to be the inability of the current "brain trust" to let go of SG1. Although they apparently set out to make SGA different, it just appears to have been an impossible task. I can only guess that it proved too hard to sustain a different show and so they chucked the idea as soon as it was practical to do so. They have no respect for the premise they created with Atlantis, nor the characters they created to inhabit that world. The brain trust treats SGA as a poor relation to its older cousin, SG1. Is it any wonder then, that some fans obviously feel the same way.

Why else would they chuck Weir for Carter. And yes I know, the decision to off Weir was made before the decision to bring Carter over. Sorry, but it is just way too convenient. Or maybe, I've just watched too many episodes of the X-Files to take anything at face value. But according to rumor, Carter has moved into Weir's office in season 4, family photos and all. They didn't even wait for the body to get cold. That's just treacherous, not to mention cold. Did I mention a lack of respect?

So, that's my fix: find writers who actually like the idea that was originally pitched for SGA and let them run with it. And forget about the older cousin. Its been retired; time for some new blood.

ShadowMaat
March 27th, 2007, 08:08 PM
OK, so fire everyone and start fresh. :P

I think Martin started off as a good writer; Storm/Eye will always be a favorite, and I think some of his recent stuff has been good, too, but I think he's been hanging around M&M too long and some of their immaturity has rubbed off on him. And yes, he DOES go way overboard with all the McKay stuff. He's probably a big part of the reason I can't stand my formerly favorite character. And I hated the way he wrote Ford, too. Of all of the writers, though, I think he's the most salvageable... provided he's forbidden to write any more McKay-centric stories. ;)

parisindy
March 27th, 2007, 09:28 PM
who wrote sateda and common ground

do you think the producer influence whats being written?

i love the deluise but ... the other powers that be ??

Falcon Horus
March 28th, 2007, 09:50 AM
Is Joss Whedon doing anything now Wonder Women is a no go for him??? :D :D :D

They could learn a thing or two from Joss... He owns the 'verse! Joss is boss!


Carter Explains It All

LOL :D

kylieS21
March 28th, 2007, 10:50 AM
who wrote sateda and common ground

do you think the producer influence whats being written?

i love the deluise but ... the other powers that be ??
I believe cooper was responsible for sateda and common ground may have been ken c but i could be wrong

panikin
March 28th, 2007, 10:54 AM
I'm quite looking forward to season four, but here's what I hope they don't do.

I watched all of season three over the course of two weeks or something like that. It's great when you can watch them all in succession like that. You can just sit down and watch four episodes then watch another three the next morning. Anyways! I really enjoyed watching them like that, in order and right after one another. But when I try to watch just one episode that is out of place from the others, (like I was watching an episode on tv the other night) it just doesn't seem as epic. I'm not sure if other people find this as well, but I don't think each episode is 'stand alone' enough. Every once in a while an episode comes along that just completely blows you away, but I think there needs to be more like that in season 4. :sheppard:

ShadowMaat
March 28th, 2007, 02:32 PM
So you think the show is completely awesome and you're looking forward to the show as long as it's "epic" enough to meet your exacting standards?

And you're on the anti thread WHY? :confused:

Yeah... Whatever. I disagree with every point of your assessment. I think the past season in particular has been terrible, I think that watching a terrible show in a marathon session is not fun at all and I think one of the biggest problems they have is that they use the reset button too much so that massive events from one ep seem to have little or no effect in other eps- unless it's a two parter.

KindlyKeller
March 28th, 2007, 03:46 PM
And you're on the anti thread WHY? :confused:


Probably because she complained that the episodes weren't stand-alone enough. :rolleyes:

parisindy
March 28th, 2007, 04:02 PM
I believe cooper was responsible for sateda and common ground may have been ken c but i could be wrong

thanks :)

man i would hate whedon writing for atlantis, i am NOT a fan.

man stand alones are annoying! what i wouldn't give for some consequences for the characters

Willow'sCat
March 28th, 2007, 04:22 PM
thanks :)

man i would hate whedon writing for atlantis, i am NOT a fan.

man stand alones are annoying! what i wouldn't give for some consequences for the charactersWell at least Whedon gave his fans consequence for actions and rarely left us wondering what had happened to "so and so" plot... :rolleyes:

Yeah you are entitled to not be a fan ;) but to me Joss at least tried to give his show/s some kind of continuity, and he wasn't afraid to go to uncomfortable places. No it did not always work and yes he also did the "death of a character" for no apparent reason but I would take his writing and his team of writers over this lot any day.

I think Stargate SG-1 & SGA are the lamest unadventurous shows on TV. It is scifi but they do NOTHING with it!! :cool: They plod along with the same old tired concept. NOTHING changes.

If it does, they press the re-set button and pretend it didn't happen. :rolleyes:

parisindy
March 28th, 2007, 04:45 PM
Well at least Whedon gave his fans consequence for actions and rarely left us wondering what had happened to "so and so" plot... :rolleyes:

Yeah you are entitled to not be a fan ;) but to me Joss at least tried to give his show/s some kind of continuity, and he wasn't afraid to go to uncomfortable places. No it did not always work and yes he also did the "death of a character" for no apparent reason but I would take his writing and his team of writers over this lot any day.

I think Stargate SG-1 & SGA are the lamest unadventurous shows on TV. It is scifi but they do NOTHING with it!! :cool: They plod along with the same old tired concept. NOTHING changes.

If it does, they press the re-set button and pretend it didn't happen. :rolleyes:

i love atlantis just not first strike and not sunday

and therefore not season 4

whedon is smart i went to his panel at comic con a few years back, i like him but i do not like his shows. The campiness alone is enough to chase me away. I need to like and care for one or more characters, in order to become invested in a show. For me its all about the characters and There isn't one character i can relate to or that appeals to me in any of whedon's stuff.

angel, buffy and firefly. yuck. If i wanted cheese i would have gone to the grocery store.

you are free to like them though ;)

and joss is no better in some regards as he like to kill off characters to ;)

nonniemous
March 29th, 2007, 07:19 AM
and joss is no better in some regards as he like to kill off characters to ;)

But you can't say that a major or even secondary character died and there was no reaction at all from the rest of the cast for the next few episodes. Two of those deaths set off an entire season's story arc, each.

Unlike, say, ol' whatsizname, that guy that was in the Atlantis infirmary all the time--or at least when he wasn't out being sent into combat situations in front of the Marines who were supposedly there to protect him.

Anyone remember him? No one on the show seems to. Yet another reason to boycott Season 4. Even if they do pull out the "OMG! We miss CARSON!" angst, it's too late. That should have been incorporated into the last three episodes of season 3, not just ignored entirely because it didn't lend itself to "action/adventure." Characters aren't supposed to just react when the plot requires it--but that's pretty much been the way Atlantis has been written in the last two years. Character assassination masquerading as plot development.

huntress
March 29th, 2007, 10:56 AM
Mmm... I would love to land on a dessert planet, particularly one that favored chocolate! :D

But as for the one on the desert planet, it was Defiant One and I agree, it was a good ep, particularly for Rodney. I only wish they'd kept up that sort of development for him instead of playing him as a more competent, egomaniacal version of Felger. *sigh*

I think another massive strike against the show is partly Skiffy's fault- the way they chose to advertise The Tower made a bad ep that much worse.

What scares me most about the bad eps, though, is that they tend to number among the favorites of TPTB. Joe, in fact, has gone on record as saying that Irresistible is one of his top picks for the season and since he's now in charge of the show... I can only imagine what new degradations the characters (and fans) will have to face in the upcoming season. If that's TPTB's idea of good humor, there's no hope for the show.

erm yeah :facepalm: I meant of course desert planet....but hey I would also just LOVE a planet with rivers of melted chocolate, whipped cream as froth and chocolate bars on trees LOL

Regarding bad episodes: The same thing scared me too.I am no longer scared since I am not watching anymore but yeah scary. At least in the case of Ron D. Moore I can agree on episodes he likes. They are usually the really good ones and those that sucks he even admits that something went wrong in the process (editing, shooting or the script simply didn't turn out as a good material for an episode) I didn't see the promos for the bad episodes since I don't live in the States but it is fascinating how many of the really terrible episodes had grand titles....and didn't deliver at all. Do all the TPTB over at SGA have delusions of grandeur and really bad taste because it does seem that way. When Mallozzi wrote with conviction in his blog that SGA is like "24", I had to blink. Has this man lost every sense of reality? Does he actually know what type of series he is producing...has the management of SGA lost its marbles? For me it looks more and more like it.

parisindy
March 29th, 2007, 04:21 PM
But you can't say that a major or even secondary character died and there was no reaction at all from the rest of the cast for the next few episodes. Two of those deaths set off an entire season's story arc, each.

Unlike, say, ol' whatsizname, that guy that was in the Atlantis infirmary all the time--or at least when he wasn't out being sent into combat situations in front of the Marines who were supposedly there to protect him.

Anyone remember him? No one on the show seems to. Yet another reason to boycott Season 4. Even if they do pull out the "OMG! We miss CARSON!" angst, it's too late. That should have been incorporated into the last three episodes of season 3, not just ignored entirely because it didn't lend itself to "action/adventure." Characters aren't supposed to just react when the plot requires it--but that's pretty much been the way Atlantis has been written in the last two years. Character assassination masquerading as plot development.

agree... still don't like joss whedon's shows, and never watched more then a dozen so i can't say much. But yeah i think the cast should have had way more of a reaction after carson.

nonniemous
March 29th, 2007, 04:47 PM
agree... still don't like joss whedon's shows, and never watched more then a dozen so i can't say much. But yeah i think the cast should have had way more of a reaction after carson.

I liked Firefly, but that's about it. But hey, if he was writing, there'd be no worries about Teyla being "invisible" and Weir being expendable. And probably Carson would still be around, too.

Willow'sCat
March 29th, 2007, 06:02 PM
angel, buffy and firefly. yuck. If i wanted cheese i would have gone to the grocery store.
LOL! So do tell what in SGA is not bloody cheesy? :rolleyes:

And I do think Joss handled the aftermath of Tara's and especially Buffy's mothers death better then most so called drama's do. At least we knew the other characters cared. :cool: ;)

ShadowMaat
March 29th, 2007, 06:32 PM
*takes a deep breath and counts to ten*

*pictures the decapitated and eviscerated remains of trolls and other stubbornly blind readers scattered across a field full of daisies*

Ahhh, I feel better now. :)

Season four. I doubt even Lorne will be enough enticement to make me watch. 'Cept maybe the ep where he's supposed to have nekkid toesies. :D Pity that I have to be reduced to that, however, instead of looking forward to eps because of the great stories and excellent characterizations. *sigh*

parisindy
March 29th, 2007, 07:15 PM
LOL! So do tell what in SGA is not bloody cheesy? :rolleyes:

And I do think Joss handled the aftermath of Tara's and especially Buffy's mothers death better then most so called drama's do. At least we knew the other characters cared. :cool: ;)

we will have to agree to disagree.., i like the worst atlantis over the best whedon stuff ..there is good cheese then there is that stinky stuff... i like the good cheese that atlantis was. I loved atlanitis thats why it breaks my heart to see what they've done. But i won't argue with you over whedon, you feel free to love him and i will feel free not to lol. I'm pretty sure we won't convince each other any different.


*takes a deep breath and counts to ten*

*pictures the decapitated and eviscerated remains of trolls and other stubbornly blind readers scattered across a field full of daisies*

Ahhh, I feel better now. :)

Season four. I doubt even Lorne will be enough enticement to make me watch. 'Cept maybe the ep where he's supposed to have nekkid toesies. :D Pity that I have to be reduced to that, however, instead of looking forward to eps because of the great stories and excellent characterizations. *sigh*

heheheehehehehehehhehehe
loves you shadowmaat hehe ((hugs))

Twinchy
March 29th, 2007, 08:27 PM
agree... still don't like joss whedon's shows, and never watched more then a dozen so i can't say much.

Hey, Paris *waves madly*
Got to get a look at hardly more than a dozen Whedon shows...? ;)
Hmmmm, can't come to the count of more than like three. *ponders some more*

I'm just teasing a bit, sorry! *sends back the tackle hugs* http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/hugsneak.gif
BTW, what's a tackle hug exactly anyway? LOL


But yeah i think the cast should have had way more of a reaction after carson.

Can't shout Amen to that loud enough!!!
And I've never even watched the eps up until now...
Only reading that, made me feel like http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/509/bawlingtz6.gif.


I liked Firefly, but that's about it. But hey, if he was writing, there'd be no worries about Teyla being "invisible" and Weir being expendable. And probably Carson would still be around, too.

Yup, Whedon knows how to revive characters if he wants to after all!
So I'm still not beyond hope for (spoiler for 'Serenity'):Wash and Shepherd Book *whimpers sorrily*

Back on topic:
Just in case I haven't mentioned yet: (spoiler for 'Sunday' - don't know if it's save to post here without spoiler tags, so better save than sorry)I want Carson Beckett back for good!!! :mad:
Wow, that really was good to get out of the system for once.

parisindy
March 29th, 2007, 09:46 PM
Hey, Paris *waves madly*
Got to get a look at hardly more than a dozen Whedon shows...? ;)
Hmmmm, can't come to the count of more than like three. *ponders some more*

TWINCHY! http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/bearhug.gif

Suzotchka
March 31st, 2007, 08:57 AM
I have so many reservations about S4. I think the fact that there are way too many cast changes coupled with the long delay of airing the episodes on SciFi will contribute to the shows downfall.

I have no intentions of watching S4.

parisindy
March 31st, 2007, 10:02 AM
I have so many reservations about S4. I think the fact that there are way too many cast changes coupled with the long delay of airing the episodes on SciFi will contribute to the shows downfall.

I have no intentions of watching S4.

welcome to the thread! and totally agree! too many changes too fast, and with out a valid or substantial reason.

parisindy
March 31st, 2007, 11:39 PM
why do i read spoilers? i feel like i am torturing myself, erg.
season 4 really has no redeeming qualities at this point

ShadowMaat
April 1st, 2007, 06:02 AM
Just be careful of any "spoilers" you read today. It's April 1st and SOME people think they're being funny. ;)

Falcon Horus
April 1st, 2007, 06:43 AM
Just be careful of any "spoilers" you read today. It's April 1st and SOME people think they're being funny. ;)

Then those people might expect a little red in their inboxes, cause I'm not particular in a good mood today.

parisindy
April 1st, 2007, 05:17 PM
Just be careful of any "spoilers" you read today. It's April 1st and SOME people think they're being funny. ;)

hehe well it was last night so i hope i am okay.. but even the real spoilers i don't put much stock in

dana
April 2nd, 2007, 02:31 AM
I just wanted to say what I said to my friend the other day:

Why should I watch a show when I'm suspicious of every minute of every episode and wait for another thing made only for "shock value" to be shoved down my throat. That takes, IMHO, all of the enjoyment of watching the show.

ShadowMaat
April 2nd, 2007, 03:28 AM
Yeah, when you're watching a show dreading what fresh embarrassment/insult might happen next instead of watching with anticipation of cool things to come... it's time to say goodbye and change the channel.

Falcon Horus
April 2nd, 2007, 03:56 AM
Yeah, when you're watching a show dreading what fresh embarrassment/insult might happen next instead of watching with anticipation of cool things to come... it's time to say goodbye and change the channel.

Well, when in season 4 (yes, I'm still going to watch) I find there's a moment I can no longer enjoy, because it's just downright going down the drain... I'll switch channels (sort of speaking) and give Dr. Who another shot.

parisindy
April 2nd, 2007, 11:15 AM
thats certainly where i am at, and its sad cause it used to be great

Suzotchka
April 6th, 2007, 10:27 AM
I am so upset over that new article in SCIFI magazine that says Carter is coming over and Weir is definitely out.

"i can't make people feel better who just love torri and dr. weir and want to see her on the show," sighs cooper. "unfortunately, that's just not going to happen. all i can say is that sam carter is a wonderful character, and amanda tapping is a wonderful actress, and i think she will fill the role on atlantis admirably. i'm excited about seeing the evolution of her character. brad and i created the character dr. weir and we love the character and torri, but the change needed to be made."

ShadowMaat
April 6th, 2007, 10:51 AM
Hmmm... How much you wanna bet TPTB are gonna whine about how Coop's statement was taken out of context? :rolleyes:

Suzotchka
April 6th, 2007, 10:53 AM
Hmmm... How much you wanna bet TPTB are gonna whine about how Coop's statement was taken out of context? :rolleyes:

Oh I'm sure that's what they're gonna say. Can't wait to see if JM addresses this on his blog.

dana
April 6th, 2007, 11:01 AM
Oh I'm sure that's what they're gonna say. Can't wait to see if JM addresses this on his blog.

Oh, he'll prolly call us misinformed lemmings again. ;)

ShadowMaat
April 6th, 2007, 11:11 AM
Oh, he'll prolly call us misinformed lemmings again. ;)

He's already called us lemmings once and while he is a great believer in recycling his plots, he tends to become increasingly derogatory when it comes to insulting fandom. Whatever we get called, it'll make lemmings seem like the AKC Best in Show by comparison. ;)

Suki
April 6th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Hmmm... How much you wanna bet TPTB are gonna whine about how Coop's statement was taken out of context? :rolleyes:

Seeing as it makes it pretty bloody impossible for them to perpetuate the myth that Weir/Torri was absotively posilutely not drop-kicked to recurring in order to make room for Lt. Col. Wonderful, I'd say the odds are fantastically in favor of such whining taking place.

Suzotchka
April 6th, 2007, 12:07 PM
Seeing as it makes it pretty bloody impossible for them to perpetuate the myth that Weir/Torri was absotively posilutely not drop-kicked to recurring in order to make room for Lt. Col. Wonderful, I'd say the odds are fantastically in favor of such whining taking place.

JM has said all along that Torri being reduced had nothing to do with Carter. That the two decisions were independent of each other. HOGWASH I say!

FoolishPleasure
April 6th, 2007, 12:15 PM
JM has said all along that Torri being reduced had nothing to do with Carter. That the two decisions were independent of each other. HOGWASH I say!
If SG1 had been renewed for another season, they wouldn't have had Carter to move over, and you know Torri would have stayed. What else would they have done? They couldn't put Mitch Pileggi (Caldwell) in charge as he is working on another show. It would have been yet ANOTHER new character?

Suki
April 6th, 2007, 12:22 PM
JM has said all along that Torri being reduced had nothing to do with Carter. That the two decisions were independent of each other. HOGWASH I say!

Obviously, somebody at the magazine edited out the part where Coop, realizing his error, clarified his statement by saying, "I'm sorry, did I say 'the change (from one character/actress to the other)' needed to be made? Silly me, what I meant to say was, 'the two completely independent and wholly unrelated creative decisions' needed to be made."

Either that or Coop doesn't read The Blog.

Suzotchka
April 6th, 2007, 01:34 PM
Obviously, somebody at the magazine edited out the part where Coop, realizing his error, clarified his statement by saying, "I'm sorry, did I say 'the change (from one character/actress to the other)' needed to be made? Silly me, what I meant to say was, 'the two completely independent and wholly unrelated creative decisions' needed to be made."

Either that or Coop doesn't read The Blog.

I don't think they know what they're doing period. Getting rid of Weir and bringing Carter on to replace her are not mutually exclusive decisions. If that makes sense. :S

Zoser
April 6th, 2007, 01:55 PM
I don't think they know what they're doing period. Getting rid of Weir and bringing Carter on to replace her are not mutually exclusive decisions. If that makes sense. :S

I truly like the character of Sam Carter but I would prefer TPTB keep her in her own galaxy. I think it is one of those money decisions that are penny wise etc.
Atlantis was suppose to be distinct - PTB follow through!!

ShadowMaat
April 6th, 2007, 02:13 PM
Personally, I think the article (finally found a link to the scan here (http://ailurophile6.livejournal.com/29013.html)) is pretty insulting towards Carter, too, since it seems to imply (to me, anyway) that she was never "good enough" to take a leadership position on SG-1 and thus has to be foisted off on the "inferior" Atlantis where she'll be able to shine. From behind a desk. :rolleyes:

Suki
April 6th, 2007, 02:54 PM
Personally, I think the article (finally found a link to the scan here (http://ailurophile6.livejournal.com/29013.html)) is pretty insulting towards Carter, too, since it seems to imply (to me, anyway) that she was never "good enough" to take a leadership position on SG-1 and thus has to be foisted off on the "inferior" Atlantis where she'll be able to shine. From behind a desk. :rolleyes:

She was never "good enough" because the role of "SG-1 leader," on SG-1, was the role that went to the "star of the show" - except for Season 8, when the role of "SGC commander" did - and Carter wasn't a strong enough character for that. When RDA left, it was either bring in another "star" to play general or bump Carter out of command of SG-1 and bring another "star" into that role (and, leaving aside my feelings on how Mitchell turned out, I can't fault TPTB for recognizing that Carter couldn't stay in a role that would make her the "star" of the show, they weren't wrong about that; coming as close as they have, in this article, to admitting this, however, might indicate a lack of discretion on their part).

On SGA, however, the role of "expedition leader" was not the role that went to the "star of the show" so, yes, while SGA is in no way the inferior show, as far as I'm concerned, of the two roles - SG-1 leader or Atlantis expedition leader - the latter is the "inferior" one, status-symbol-wise, and thus the "safe" command to give to their pet character.

So they completely upend one show in order to prop up a character they (or the network, or both) didn't feel could carry another show, and we're supposed to be excited about this "wonderful" new addition when their own past actions indicate they know full well she isn't as wonderful as all that.

Yes, I can see how this "needed" to be done.

For Carter's benefit. Certainly not mine.

nowvoyager908
April 6th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Well ladies and gentlemen, looks like the fat lady has finally sung. :(

I'd pretty much given up on season 4. Exploding tumors will that to a girl. But with Weir, I was hoping against hope that I would at least have a reason to peek in on some episodes of season 4. Looks like that ain't gonna happen. I will not be around to watch <mod snip> cut Elizabeth off at the knees.

I just don't understand how they think a character from a show that has been cancelled due to falling ratings (viewer fatigue I would think) is gonna improve the ratings of a spin-off that was already doing better than its parent. Especially when the spin off looses two pretty popular existing characters to make room. These guys must be studying the Enron guide to success. LOL.

Anyway, one thing I have learned from this debacle. I will never watch another show that these guys produce. It just isn't worth the aggravation. They apparently don't know when its time to let go . . . but I sure as hell do. ;)

parisindy
April 6th, 2007, 04:19 PM
man i have ranted and i have raved and now that the truth is finally out...

man i got nothing to add... i love torri and paul

this sucks and its sad.

nowvoyager908
April 6th, 2007, 04:23 PM
Oh I'm sure that's what they're gonna say. Can't wait to see if JM addresses this on his blog.


You know what, I hate to say it, but you can't put any stock in anything these guys say. I'm not gonna use the word lie, but they have been weaving and bobbing since this whole thing first hit. Are they so arrogant that they didn't they expect fans to react? Or did they think we would just fall into lockstep because the Bridge boys know what's best and who are we, the lowly fans, to question their brilliance. LOL.

nowvoyager908
April 6th, 2007, 04:24 PM
man i have ranted and i have raved and now that the truth is finally out...

man i got nothing to add... i love torri and paul

this sucks and its sad.


I know exactly how you feel. . . like I've been kicked in the gut. So sad.

ToasterOnFire
April 6th, 2007, 04:38 PM
So...TPTB are so happy now that Carter will be in charge. Finally, finally, Carter can get the leadership position she deserves! Except...they could have put her in charge back in season nine. Why didn't they? Hmm...

TPTB specifically didn't put Carter in charge of SG1 in s9, preferring to move from one male lead to another. They wanted her to "stay a part of the team" or some other comment politely disguised as "we didn't think she would be a good leader" or "we wanted BB in charge more than AT" or reversely "we were uncomfortable giving AT the lead when BB came in". But now they're excited about giving Carter a leadership position...by taking that position away from another woman. I know what that looks like to me, and I don't care for it one bit. :mckay:

If Carter is in charge of Atlantis next season, what are they going to do if they get renewed for season five? Will Amanda Tapping want to stay on the Stargate franchise for yet another year, even though her contract is only for one season? Will they magically bring Weir back or throw someone completely new in charge? Or will none of this matter when they don't get renewed? :S

ShadowMaat
April 6th, 2007, 04:38 PM
You know what, I hate to say it, but you can't put any stock in anything these guys say.
They may smile, and smile, and be villains, but it doesn't mean it won't still be interesting to see what bizarre interpretation of reality Joe will invent in order to explain it all away.

Skydiver
April 6th, 2007, 04:40 PM
A little mod note

TIIC is not an appropriate acronym to use here, so please refrain from using it

parisindy
April 6th, 2007, 09:51 PM
I know exactly how you feel. . . like I've been kicked in the gut. So sad.

thanks (((hugs)))

what hasn't been said at this point
any inkling of hope has been snuffed

Easter Lily
April 6th, 2007, 11:14 PM
I am so upset over that new article in SCIFI magazine that says Carter is coming over and Weir is definitely out.

"i can't make people feel better who just love torri and dr. weir and want to see her on the show," sighs cooper. "unfortunately, that's just not going to happen. all i can say is that sam carter is a wonderful character, and amanda tapping is a wonderful actress, and i think she will fill the role on atlantis admirably. i'm excited about seeing the evolution of her character. brad and i created the character dr. weir and we love the character and torri, but the change needed to be made."

Until now, I've tried to very hard to be positive about Season 4 but after all this double speak by showrunners, I throw up my hands in despair. I won't go so far as to say I'm not watching as yet... it will depend largely on how Carter fits into the current dynamic but given my lack of interest in Carter in SG-1, I don't think the odds of my being interested in the show in the long term are very strong.


Well ladies and gentlemen, looks like the fat lady has finally sung. :(

I'd pretty much given up on season 4. Exploding tumors will that to a girl. But with Weir, I was hoping against hope that I would at least have a reason to peek in on some episodes of season 4. Looks like that ain't gonna happen. I will not be around to watch <mod snip> cut Elizabeth off at the knees.

I just don't understand how they think a character from a show that has been cancelled due to falling ratings (viewer fatigue I would think) is gonna improve the ratings of a spin-off that was already doing better than its parent. Especially when the spin off looses two pretty popular existing characters to make room. These guys must be studying the Enron guide to success. LOL.


Carter or no Carter, I am absolutely against a military person heading up Atlantis. It's bad enough that they didn't do much with Weir when they had her in charge, I can't see how things would be better with Carter at the helm especially if the same people are doing the writing.
What I don't understand is Rob Cooper's comments that "the change needed to be made"? What kind of change is he talking about? What made it a "need" in S4 that wasn't a "need" in S3? The cancellation of SG-1? The need to get rid of existing actors? Was Skiffy leaning on the showrunners to make "those necessary changes"? Or is this a reference to the writing? Or were they talking about correcting their own mistakes? His comments feel to me both glib and disingenuous.

grasshopper64
April 7th, 2007, 02:41 AM
I read the comments by RCC and if I didn't have my doubts about S4 I certainly do now.

I agree with what's been said, that Sam wasn't competent enough in TPTB's eyes to lead SG1 in S9 but suddenly now she's qualified enough to lead Atlantis?
And she is still a Lt Colonel or do they plan on promoting her to full Colonel?

They made so much about the leader of Atlantis being a civilian, now it's ok for a US military person to lead Atlantis, an international expedition, is the IOA supposed to suddenly be ok with this?

All these changes at once are just too much, I'm not going to speculate about what is going on in the minds of TPTB, but these days they seem to do a great job of annoying a lot of fans except of course "certain contingents" that they seem to like........

ShadowMaat
April 7th, 2007, 03:39 AM
Why did the change need to happen? Maybe the whole "Atlantis isn't a military operation" thing became such a blatant and ridiculous joke that even TPTB were embarrassed by it. Or more likely one of the Suits was confused by it and insisted a change be made (since I believe TPTB lack the capacity to feel embarrassment).

Since when has Atlantis ever been anything but a military operation? From Day 1 the military has been in charge, the team we follow through the gate is led by a military man, and when was the last time we saw a conflict between the civilian and military aspect of things? Hot Zone?? Hell, when has a major civilian-oriented decision been made in Atlantis? Even most of the scientific investigations seem aimed at figuring out more ways to protect themselves/Earth. Yes, I understand that there are enemies out there and that we need to guard against them, but from where I'm sitting there's still a military skew to everything.

"Civilian operation" my Aunt Petunia. :rolleyes: Atlantis has ALWAYS been a military show. Rather than correcting that and giving us the civvie-oriented show we were promised, they're gonna do away with the excuse entirely and give us what they've always wanted (or what they're too incompetent to change): a military show.

parisindy
April 7th, 2007, 10:23 AM
i have to agree with you shadowmaat...

its just another example of what should have been.

even if it was just a farce it was a farce i enjoyed... i liked the idea of it being primarily a civilian operation.

i would have loved to have seen more conflict between the two

but watching some outsider step in to take charge of our city feels like a violation. SG-1 or not. Its proabably why i dislike ellis and keller so much as well.

what i just don't get are the people blindly supporting the show, i'm just confused.

ShadowMaat
April 7th, 2007, 11:12 AM
Random aside, but I really wish I knew who I'm picturing when I think of Ellis, 'cos my mental image is nothing at ALL like wossname who plays him...

Anyway, I think it'll be interesting to see whether or not Atlantis survives past season 4. ...And who'll get blamed if the show gets cancelled. I bet TPTB will blame Skiffy for not promoting it enough and fans for being unwilling to accept change. Fans will blame Skiffy for being Skiffy, Amanda for treading where she "doesn't belong". TPTB for being idiots, whatever new shows are premiering on Skiffy around that time, whatever shows are getting higher ratings at that time, and, of course, each other. Particularly those damn reprobates who refused to accept changes. :rolleyes:

Of course, if the show survives, certain parties will be that much more insufferable.

I'm toying with the idea of posting a Q to Joe's blog, just to see what happens. Something about the fate of certain characters at the end of the season. ;)

Easter Lily
April 7th, 2007, 01:21 PM
Why did the change need to happen? Maybe the whole "Atlantis isn't a military operation" thing became such a blatant and ridiculous joke that even TPTB were embarrassed by it. Or more likely one of the Suits was confused by it and insisted a change be made (since I believe TPTB lack the capacity to feel embarrassment).

Since when has Atlantis ever been anything but a military operation? From Day 1 the military has been in charge, the team we follow through the gate is led by a military man, and when was the last time we saw a conflict between the civilian and military aspect of things? Hot Zone?? Hell, when has a major civilian-oriented decision been made in Atlantis? Even most of the scientific investigations seem aimed at figuring out more ways to protect themselves/Earth. Yes, I understand that there are enemies out there and that we need to guard against them, but from where I'm sitting there's still a military skew to everything.

"Civilian operation" my Aunt Petunia. :rolleyes: Atlantis has ALWAYS been a military show. Rather than correcting that and giving us the civvie-oriented show we were promised, they're gonna do away with the excuse entirely and give us what they've always wanted (or what they're too incompetent to change): a military show.

Disappointing but true... :(
Now we should probably brace ourselves for the place being overrun by military types.
I guess I should probably finally give up on the idea that they will actually make something of the "international" aspect of the expedition/operation. :mckay:

Falcon Horus
April 7th, 2007, 02:28 PM
I guess I should probably finally give up on the idea that they will actually make something of the "international" aspect of the expedition/operation. :mckay:

I've given up on that hope a long time ago... Showing the flags alone on occasion just doesn't do it.


I'm toying with the idea of posting a Q to Joe's blog, just to see what happens. Something about the fate of certain characters at the end of the season.

Who's next on the chopping-block? Plaaaaaaace ya bets!! And Full-House won't be enough to win :p ... Empty-House might.

parisindy
April 7th, 2007, 03:14 PM
i think rodney..only becuase david's becoming too big for the show... his popularity might cause him to move on to bigger things

when are contract negotations ;) ?

Falcon Horus
April 7th, 2007, 03:18 PM
Oh my Goddess, if DH goes... then Atlantis plummets to the vast depths of the ocean it (used to) float(s) in. (not sure if it floated since it seemed to remain in the same position but that's beside the point)

Adding to that, McKay is no favorite of mine but I do like him. I mean, what's not to like about him? :p

Easter Lily
April 7th, 2007, 04:10 PM
i think rodney..only becuase david's becoming too big for the show... his popularity might cause him to move on to bigger things

when are contract negotations ;) ?

That would be an act of sepuku... considering what a popular character he is. I doubt that even bringing Daniel over would save the show

It's only because of Joe and David that I'm even going to bother with S4. Other than that, they should forget about calling it Stargate Atlantis.

Suzotchka
April 7th, 2007, 07:13 PM
i have to agree with you shadowmaat...

its just another example of what should have been.

even if it was just a farce it was a farce i enjoyed... i liked the idea of it being primarily a civilian operation.

i would have loved to have seen more conflict between the two

but watching some outsider step in to take charge of our city feels like a violation. SG-1 or not. Its proabably why i dislike ellis and keller so much as well.

what i just don't get are the people blindly supporting the show, i'm just confused.

I completely agree with you.

jerkface
April 7th, 2007, 09:29 PM
*sigh* Well, I just read the article thingamajig. Gad, what a mess. I know I'm just annoying myself by still paying any attention, but the dog's been keeping me up lately. That's my excuse for wasting time on the internet anyway. ;)

Does Sci-Fi magazine usually print fluff pieces like this? I've never read it before. It sounds a little bit like the old Nintendo Power "reviews"...

I really did like Tapping's performances on SG-1; even when the material was sparse, or a little hackneyed, I don't remember her ever phoning it in, which is more than I would say for one of her co-stars there. But I can't hold out much hope for her character, if this is all the storyline they can come up with.

I'm speculating here, but based on what they've said so far, Carter could be put in charge of Atlantis because the military wants a military leader for the possible war with the Asurans. But why would any of the military higher-ups trust Carter with a position like that? SG-1 has always been effective, but not too good at following orders they disagree with.

While Hammond became more of a friend to the team, and often the voice of right-over-procedure as the show went on, it seemed like the writers often used the military bureaucracy as a villian/foil. Heck, the first episode with McKay reiterated that whole theme. Are these the people who are suddenly trusting not only Carter's judgment, but her ability to do a job she has no experience for? Guh...wha...why?

And even ignoring all that (which I presume they will...), where's the background that supports the premise Carter would have any problem dealing with the idea of being a leader (which the article seems to say was their selling point for bringing her over)? If anything, it seemed like on SG-1 Carter was infallibly likeable; Jack was the one who could be undiplomatic with strangers. I can see how Carter might be unprepared for the logistics of running a city full of people more intelligent than they are personable, but that doesn't seem to be what they're talking about.

I thought when they started Atlantis, that McKay was a bit like Carter could have been if they'd let that character be a bit more human—she could easily have been isolated by her work before joining SG-1, and as a result been somewhat arrogant and dismissive without realizing it. But since they've just used Atlantis to make McKay more and more likeable, I'd be dang surprised if all of a sudden they were willing to use this change to honestly look at the type of flaws Carter could have.

Ugh, I don't know. What really bugs me though, is the only way I can think to explain some of their statements and writing decisions about Carter and Weir is that they don't see a lot of potential in female characters. It's as if they assume, "Carter can't be a leader in the same way Jack or Mitchell can, so let's make her a behind-the-scenes, non-action leader." "Weir ultimately can't juggle the military and civilian sides of Atlantis, so let's push her even further out of power."

It even seems to me like the same thing they've done with Teyla. She started out as the Teal'c-like character—the wise alien, with different principles she was willing to defend, sometimes violently (remember how she decked Bates for suggesting she was a collaborator?). But they've made her more and more of a woman-there-to-pacify-the-men, giving Ronon all the justified but often undiluted anger at the wraith.

I don't mean to accuse them of deliberate sexism, because I sincerely doubt any of this is a conscious decision on the writers' part. But it does seem to be a pattern, and not one I'd like to continue witnessing.

A.L.
April 7th, 2007, 09:31 PM
I don't normally participate in Anti-threads but with the recent statement from Cooper (however honest is still crap to me) I figured this was a good place outside my normal threads to post my opinion to TPTB.

To quote a favorite movie: "Badly done."

After TH's last epi, I'm out if TPTB don't change their minds.

This is rather depressing to me because unlike past years in my life, I have no other show to go watch. Atlantis was it. The last in a long line. In my opinion, there was nothing else on TV (Cable or mainstream) that was worth watching. It's all "Reality" TV and other garbage that I have no interest in. Atlantis was different. Atlantis was good. Atlantis was around when all else on TV had failed to interest me.

Maybe it's a "vision" but it seems more like ego has killed my last favorite show.

For those of you who know me, you'll note the serious change in my sig. It pretty much sums it up.

AL

parisindy
April 7th, 2007, 10:44 PM
I don't normally participate in Anti-threads

i have never belonged to an anti-thread before... but my love of this show has driven me to it.

i still have supernatural which i enjoy but i agree
i'll miss atlantis and there is a hole that i'm not sure can or will be filled anytime soon

and well said jerkface i agree with your points.

i love ben but why not bring him into to sg1 as second to carter.

why bring her over to atlantis where she doesn't belong...it not carters fault but it still feels like an invasion

square peg round hole...and we already had a pretty cool round peg

nowvoyager908
April 8th, 2007, 07:22 AM
I don't normally participate in Anti-threads but with the recent statement from Cooper (however honest is still crap to me) I figured this was a good place outside my normal threads to post my opinion to TPTB.

To quote a favorite movie: "Badly done."

After TH's last epi, I'm out if TPTB don't change their minds.

This is rather depressing to me because unlike past years in my life, I have no other show to go watch. Atlantis was it. The last in a long line. In my opinion, there was nothing else on TV (Cable or mainstream) that was worth watching. It's all "Reality" TV and other garbage that I have no interest in. Atlantis was different. Atlantis was good. Atlantis was around when all else on TV had failed to interest me.

Maybe it's a "vision" but it seems more like ego has killed my last favorite show.

For those of you who know me, you'll note the serious change in my sig. It pretty much sums it up.

AL

ICAM. There isn't much I make a point to watch on tv. I avoid reality shows like the plague. I'm the only person I know who hasn't seen even one second of AI or DWTS. My list of viewing pleasures is small: CSI, Lost and a few other things which I watch now and then . . . like Nip/Tuck or Monk. SGA used to be on that list . . . but sadly no more. LOL.

The part of me that loves eye candy will certainly miss seeing JF and JM every week, but that just isn't enough to make up for what's been lost.

Killdeer
April 8th, 2007, 07:51 AM
That would be an act of sepuku... considering what a popular character he is. I doubt that even bringing Daniel over would save the show

It's only because of Joe and David that I'm even going to bother with S4. Other than that, they should forget about calling it Stargate Atlantis.

Same here. Sheppard and McKay are the main reasons I'm not giving up on Atlantis yet, although I love Teyla and Ronan too. But....I've been gritting my teeth and watching around Carter for 3-4 seasons on SG-1 because I loved the other characters. I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that now I have to do that on Atlantis. :S If not for Shep & McKay I wouldn't even try.

Falcon Horus
April 8th, 2007, 07:58 AM
Mmm...I seem to run into an issue if they're going for the McKay & Sheppard-show. Neither are anywhere in my favorites list. I love the characters, don't get me wrong, but they are not my favorites.

If I'd have to watch for these two alone, I'd probably tune out and focus my energy on something else ... f.e. Bones, NCIS, CSI:Miami,...

nonniemous
April 8th, 2007, 08:32 AM
Mmm...I seem to run into an issue if they're going for the McKay & Sheppard-show. Neither are anywhere in my favorites list. I love the characters, don't get me wrong, but they are not my favorites.

The apparent shift to focusing on those two is high on my list of reasons for tuning out. I love them both, but in measure, and I hate the way they've become the be all and end all of most episodes. The writers are too busy hanging on the coolness of John and Rodney to write consistently good episodes that feature all the characters. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, I swear they're trying to rewrite the high school geek experience, where the geeks just weren't cool enough to hang with the pretty and popular crowd. And far too often that's what the whole "John and Rodney" show comes across as.

Of course, that fits right in with Mallozzi's comments about "writing the show we [TPTB] want to see" and the adolescent and juvenile humor that brought us episodes like Irresponsible and found time for John and Rodney snark in Tao of Rodney but couldn't give us the scene where Carson and Rodney say goodbye--but, oh, wait! Carson is Rodney's best friend!

ARGH!!! :mckayanime07:

Yeah, right, let's be excited about Season 4, as if adding in the gorgeous, "honorary guy" Geek!Girl is going to improve things. Yes, I think they're scrambling to save the show and the franchise, but they're scrambling in the wrong direction!

:teyla30:

ShadowMaat
April 8th, 2007, 08:47 AM
Posted my snarky Q to Joe's blog. We'll see if he deigns to give me a snarky answer back. ;)

Diesel Vanilla
April 8th, 2007, 08:53 AM
I am so upset over that new article in SCIFI magazine that says Carter is coming over and Weir is definitely out.

"i can't make people feel better who just love torri and dr. weir and want to see her on the show," sighs cooper. "unfortunately, that's just not going to happen. all i can say is that sam carter is a wonderful character, and amanda tapping is a wonderful actress, and i think she will fill the role on atlantis admirably. i'm excited about seeing the evolution of her character. brad and i created the character dr. weir and we love the character and torri, but the change needed to be made."


!!!!!!!!!! I hadn't read that!!! :( That's a complete shocker!!!!!!!!! :( Is that readable online or is that only in the mag?

EDIT: OOOPS, sorry, didn't realise I wasn't on the last page (d'uh!) and have now found a link... off to read....

Diesel Vanilla
April 8th, 2007, 10:00 AM
Read the article. I actually want to cry... which really doesn't happen very often with me and tv. I've been on such a high cos of all the great Save Carson exploits... now I've slipped right down to the bottom rung again. I STOPPED watching SG1 mid season 9 and STARTED watching Atlantis cos I felt SG1 and the characters especially had HAD their time!

I LOVE AT and Carter, I REALLY do and sincerely wish all the best to her in joining Atlantis... but for me Carter was SG1 - it's OVER for me... I said my goodbyes and just, ARGGHHHHH!!! NOOOOOOO!!! BLO*DY NOOOOOO!!! I'd be JUST as mad if it was Daniel or Teal'c or O'Neill taking over the helm because they were intentionally not put at the helm in the FIRST PLACE.

I've never been so thoroughly disappointed by decisions taken about a show I love so much. And I'm equally disappointed that my love for all things Stargate has been tarnished. It sounds ridiculous but I actually find it hard to watch dvds of either Atlantis or SG1 right now because all I have in my head is "Weir! Carter! Beckett! Shaking things up! Too many changes! Breaking up the team! What a COMPLETE freaking WASTE!"

Bottom line for me is that some... actually ALL of these decisions have really hurt and upset SO many fans... no to mention the wonderful actors... and I find their lack of respect to the fans of Weir and Beckett particularly hard to deal with considering the loyalty I and so many others have had to Stargate as a whole for a bloody long time.

I guess they have put a huge amount of faith in the Stargate fanbase trusting their decisions... and I've no doubt that many fans will continue to love the show... but they've left me totally gobsmacked by it all. All the hard work they put in to develop these great characters and to get us to love them... then they just turn around and wipe them out!!!

What the H*LL?!!!!

parisindy
April 8th, 2007, 10:37 AM
Bottom line for me is that some... actually ALL of these decisions have really hurt and upset SO many fans... no to mention the wonderful actors... and I find their lack of respect to the fans of Weir and Beckett particularly hard to deal with considering the loyalty I and so many others have had to Stargate as a whole for a bloody long time.

I guess they have put a huge amount of faith in the Stargate fanbase trusting their decisions... and I've no doubt that many fans will continue to love the show... but they've left me totally gobsmacked by it all. All the hard work they put in to develop these great characters and to get us to love them... then they just turn around and wipe them out!!!

What the H*LL?!!!!

dude i so get that... thats how i felt after First Strike...aww poor thing... sucks don't it? http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/hug.gif
you're not alone.

I adore the chracters of Shep and Rodney..thing is i also love ronan, and Weir and beckett and teyla and lorne and chuck and zelenka etc... for me it was all about the team. TPTB destroyed our team... they talk of leaving no one behind... but they sure haven't lived up to that have they?

Shadowmaat i am sorry i missed it..what was your snarky question?
I have been to afraid to venture over to the blogger of doom... i have a feeling i would just leave more angry then i already am. hehe too many people bowing at the temple of the Joe M for my liking.

ShadowMaat
April 8th, 2007, 11:32 AM
Shadowmaat i am sorry i missed it..what was your snarky question?
The relevant part was this:


Hi Joe!

I was hoping you could offer some advice on the latest Atlantis mystery: you've already replaced Ford with Ronon, Carson with Keller, and Weir with Carter, so who are you going to kill off (or as you like to say, "reduce to recurring") for season 5? I figure since most of the stories revolve around Sheppard and/or McKay (or is it AU Rod now?) they're probably safe, but Ronon and Teyla are the "sexy alien warriors" who are vital to most of the B and C plots, so the question is would you kill/reduce one of them anyway or is it the fans of Caldwell, Zelenka and Lorne who should be worrying? Certainly if any of them get bumped up from recurring to regular it'd be cause to worry. ;)

Of course, if Caldwell, Zelenka or Lorne actually ends up dying, it'll be all my fault. LOL! But I figure it's only a matter of time, anyway. Assuming the show survives past Season 4 the whole killing trend will probably continue. Gotta drive those ratings up, right? ;)

Falcon Horus
April 8th, 2007, 12:50 PM
Gotta drive those ratings up, right? ;)

I'm afraid they'll have quite a bit of driving to do. I bet they have to kill the whole cast to get better ratings.

BIG NEWS ON THE SGA-FRONT

Due to falling ratings, TPTB are taking desperate measures to save their precious show. For the first time in sci-fi history an entire cast will be killed off and replaced with a whole new one. Casting has already begun and there are some promising names coming up to play the most important people on the (new) show.

We will keep you up-to-date on this matter. Check back regurlarly for more news.


Inspired by the Belgian version of Big Brother of which the ratings weren't good enough, so they decided to kick half of the people in the house out of it and replace them with others. I wish they would just stop making the show altogether as it is taking time away for better things.

Easter Lily
April 8th, 2007, 02:04 PM
Mmm...I seem to run into an issue if they're going for the McKay & Sheppard-show. Neither are anywhere in my favorites list. I love the characters, don't get me wrong, but they are not my favorites.


If that's all the show's about... well, they'll soon run out of stories... and yeah, I'd lose interest too. But McKay and Sheppard is preferable to McKay and Carter, in my book.
My point is... I'm looking for some reason to continue with the show... and those two are it... :(

ShadowMaat
April 8th, 2007, 04:57 PM
Hmm... Looks like Joe's Blog (http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/) has been updated. My question got skipped. LOL! Is this where I say it was an honor just to be nominated? ;) I'm not feeling very honored, but I am curious as to which comments get posted and which don't... and of those which get addressed in the next entry and which don't. Maybe he couldn't think up a witty enough response. :P

parisindy
April 8th, 2007, 06:47 PM
The relevant part was this:



Of course, if Caldwell, Zelenka or Lorne actually ends up dying, it'll be all my fault. LOL! But I figure it's only a matter of time, anyway. Assuming the show survives past Season 4 the whole killing trend will probably continue. Gotta drive those ratings up, right? ;)

HA! thats awesome! hehehehehe
green you if i could!
its not a huge suprise you got skipped hehehe but i would have loved to see his face as he read the question hehe


I'm afraid they'll have quite a bit of driving to do. I bet they have to kill the whole cast to get better ratings.

BIG NEWS ON THE SGA-FRONT

Due to falling ratings, TPTB are taking desperate measures to save their precious show. For the first time in sci-fi history an entire cast will be killed off and replaced with a whole new one. Casting has already begun and there are some promising names coming up to play the most important people on the (new) show.

We will keep you up-to-date on this matter. Check back regurlarly for more news.


hehehe you guys rock!

nonniemous
April 8th, 2007, 07:19 PM
Someone on another thread pointed out that Beckett and Weir were axed after some focus group research that NBC did. Their point was in part that Beckett and Weir as characters obviously didn't resonate with the fans, and were therefore the ones that had to go in order to revive SGA's sagging ratings.

All I have to say is if that was the case, they showed only snippets of Beckett in second season, where he was written far too often as either a buffoon for comic relief, or third season, where he was decidedly cranky. Silly me, I thought his crankiness third season was directly attributable to some time spent alone with Michael and TPTB were setting up an arc showing some really cool character growth and making great use of that time.

Silly me. I should have known better.

ToasterOnFire
April 8th, 2007, 07:43 PM
Someone on another thread pointed out that Beckett and Weir were axed after some focus group research that NBC did.
I've heard this too but I'm not sure if it's fact or rumor. There was earlier talk about focus groups, but I have yet to see direct proof that their results led to the removal of Weir and Beckett, only assumption. Does anyone know for sure one way or the other?

And yes nonniemous, the writers didn't give fans a lot to appreciate when it came to characters other than Shep and McKay (we really need a snarky term for them). It's harder for average fans to get excited about underdeveloped characters. I imagine Teyla and Ronon were next on the chopping block. Heck, if TPTB had decided to bring over Teal'c instead of Sam one or both of them would have been gone. Hooray for interchangeability. :mckay:

Easter Lily
April 8th, 2007, 11:27 PM
Someone on another thread pointed out that Beckett and Weir were axed after some focus group research that NBC did. Their point was in part that Beckett and Weir as characters obviously didn't resonate with the fans, and were therefore the ones that had to go in order to revive SGA's sagging ratings.

All I have to say is if that was the case, they showed only snippets of Beckett in second season, where he was written far too often as either a buffoon for comic relief, or third season, where he was decidedly cranky. Silly me, I thought his crankiness third season was directly attributable to some time spent alone with Michael and TPTB were setting up an arc showing some really cool character growth and making great use of that time.

Silly me. I should have known better.

Could someone direct me to the post in question?

Frankly speaking, I'm skeptical that any research was done... If it is, it begs the question as to what kinds of people made up these groups... We may as well look to fanfiction as an indicator of popularity... it's just as accurate or probably even more so. :rolleyes:

Your other point is a good one... I don't think TPTB were planning to oust Beckett or downgrade Weir's presence until cancellation was announced. I certainly never got that feeling from watching S3.

Celcool
April 8th, 2007, 11:41 PM
Could someone direct me to the post in question?

Frankly speaking, I'm skeptical that any research was done... If it is, it begs the question as to what kinds of people made up these groups... We may as well look to fanfiction as an indicator of popularity... it's just as accurate or probably even more so. :rolleyes:

Your other point is a good one... I don't think TPTB were planning to oust Beckett or downgrade Weir's presence until cancellation was announced. I certainly never got that feeling from watching S3.
I can't be of help with the post, sorry. That post was speculation btw., no doubt, it's not confirmed.

I just wanted to say that I posted a comment on JM's blog saying basically what you're saying a while ago (the part I bolded). I don't have much idea how the research works myself but I read a post by a person who was part of the research and I based my comment on that. I think the group they gave the polls to can hardly be representative, they're not really fans of the show for most of the time, they vote for whatever, I said that a poll here on GW may be even more valid than those reasearches because here, real fans, who actually watch the show participate. Also, if you ask me, the means of them gettings ratings results is totally silly as well (read a post by a person who was a nielsen box watcher), so outdated and those big network execs unfortunately see only those numbers that actually hardly indicate the reality. It's all screwed up, I know that they have to base their decisions on something to get ads...

ShadowMaat
April 9th, 2007, 03:31 AM
Focus groups imply that they care about what the fans think and are willing to change in order to accommodate them. We've already had plenty of evidence to contradict that. :P Plus, it's too convenient a scapegoat: "Oh, it isn't OUR fault, it's the focus groups!" :rolleyes:

Falcon Horus
April 9th, 2007, 04:39 AM
hehehe you guys rock!

I have my moments. :p

nonniemous
April 9th, 2007, 06:45 AM
Could someone direct me to the post in question?

The one I saw most recently was in the "Could Carter Replace Weir? Thread" though I've seen it elsewhere. It sounds like Celcooland a few other people have better information. I was simply positing that to get the results they were said to get, they must have stacked the deck to begin with--as Shadowmaat and Alyssahave pointed out.


Frankly speaking, I'm skeptical that any research was done... If it is, it begs the question as to what kinds of people made up these groups... We may as well look to fanfiction as an indicator of popularity... it's just as accurate or probably even more so. :rolleyes:

Then the show would be Queer as Stargate and all about wars between all the various shippers. ;)


Your other point is a good one... I don't think TPTB were planning to oust Beckett or downgrade Weir's presence until cancellation was announced. I certainly never got that feeling from watching S3.

I think it's obvious that Vengeance was written with Carson in mind. Then again, I couldn't imagine them revisiting that story arc and NEVER, EVER mentioning his name in the episode--though he was damn near the only character featured in the "Previously, on Stargate..." intro. :beckettanime09:

If anything, the "focus groups" may translate to the "Market research" that Mallozzi has mentioned on his blog. That supposedly showed that Atlantis skewed heavily to a male demographic--and presto bango, we suddenly no longer have a believable and well-characterized mature male doctor, but a hawt young thang who, capable as she is as an actress, is in no way believable as a CMO. But hey, she is perky in all the right spots and therefore supposedly appealing to all those male viewers. (None of the males in that demographic in my house are interested, though. They all liked Carson better--or think the show jumped the shark back in Season 2.)

Of course, I'm the one in my house who buys all the tie-in merchandise, Season Companions and whatnot. Go figure that one out, M&M and Co.

Ruined_puzzle
April 9th, 2007, 07:33 AM
You mean these
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/main-6.jpg
Ah, I love them.

Celcool
April 9th, 2007, 07:37 AM
You mean these
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/main-6.jpg
Ah, I love them.
You can do stuff with them. ;) *runs away*