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The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

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    Originally posted by mcbarr View Post
    Again, you have issues with TPTB and their writing (as do I, btw). The prob is, offing/replacing characters won't change anything... SGA characters will still screw up all the time. Carter will back up Sheppard, and Sheppard will back up Carter. McKay will blow up a solar system here and there. The new doc will pick up Carson's retrovirus research where he left off and so on.
    agree again,,, we are borg lol

    Originally posted by Killdeer View Post
    I'm not up to debating your points about Misgotten, because I hated the episode too. Maybe I chose my words poorly when I said "emotional heart." What I meant was - I want this show to be more than a action/adventure psuedo-science flick, which is kind of what SG1 has turned into, and why I've lost interest. I want there to be character moments, emotional moments between the characters, and it seemed like Weir and Beckett, and sometimes Teyla, were usually the catalyst for those moments. Sheppard and McKay are not just going to have a scene together and start talking about how they feel, or Ronon either. That's not who they are. It's not a flaw, it's just not their character, not their position. They're military and science oriented, not people/feelings oriented. But Beckett and Weir, because of who they are, are in a position to connect on a more emotional level and pull those kind of deeper moments out, give us a sense of what's going on in Sheppard's head, or McKay's head, etc, and round out the team, rather than have everyone segregated in their own little universe.

    This is not a moral judgement about their characters. I was more talking about the place they fill in the team, bringing out the personal side, rather than just being focused on the action, or the pseudo-science, etc. Not that I'm opposed to action at all - but I want it to be well rounded. Taking away BOTH Weir and Beckett leaves a gap....there's no people person there to fill the space. Carter can't - she's scientific/military. Heightmeyer hasn't been developed enough to do it, and we only see her rarely, and I've seen nothing to indicate she's going to have a greater presence in the upcoming season. Keller is only going to be in eight episodes, and she's still finding her way. That puts the burden of adding the emotional, empathic side squarely on Teyla's shoulders, and Teyla is going to have her own issues this year.

    TH said, and I'm quoting from her interview in Stargate Magazine:


    It makes me wonder if the reason for getting rid of Weir and Beckett was precisely that, to get rid of the emotional side of the show. If they want to focus on action and plot, Weir and Beckett would only slow them down, because their purpose is to show the human side, the emotional reaction. If the writers are trying to get rid of that, and make it a purely sci-fi action flick show....

    I'm just speculating now. Just some thoughts.
    agreed and well said... they did that with andromeda as well
    they want the 'action hour' they were advertising and it was the characters that paid for it... action needs to be the result of something. Action with out emotion to back it up is just... well dull. Its the emotional investment that makes the action sequences worth while, if you don't care about the characters or can't relate to them on some level will you care when they are in peril... probably not
    Spoiler:

    "It gets sort of Zen after a while, Life is a Journey. Time is a River. The door is Ajar."
    ~ Waldo Butters, in Dead Beat by Jim Butcher
    Card designed by Falcon Horus

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      From JM's blog:

      Anonymous #2 writes: “All the "oh they don't advertise enough" and "the fans just won't accept what we're giving them" won't fly if the series fails.”

      Answer: Yet the fact is that after a six month lay-off, lack of any significant promotion, and previous airings throughout the world and on the internet, both Stargates have seen their numbers dip. It doesn’t take a genius to connect the dots.
      So it's the lack of promotion that is killing the show? Somehow, I don't think that's the *whole* reason.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Willow'sCat View Post
        Weir is no more the heart or soul of Atlantis then I am a super model. Good grief the women gave the go ahead to kill on mass, then she had the nerve to turn up a few eps latter finally FINALLY admitting she did frak up! This is what is wrong with Weir! Too little too late. This is what is wrong with the show IMHO, too many bad decisions and no one taking any responsibility for them.

        And as for Beckett well he did mess around with things he had no right to and all in the name of being a doctor. Well that kind of doctoring I can do without seeing on Stargate.

        I just do not see where all this rubbish about Heart and Soul is coming from! Well I can but I guess in desperation we all clutch at straws.
        I think where I disagree with your take on "heart and soul" is that in my mind, it doesn’t mean always being perfect, or even as always doing the right thing. It’s more a feeling of giving emotional weight to the show . . . to ground the show so that it doesn't fly off into space (no pun intended). LOL. It’s actually more interesting to me to see someone struggle with a decision that may go against their better judgment than to see someone be perfect all the time . . . or to not think or feel at all.

        As much as I love all the characters, Ronon and Teyla are (IMHO) nothing more than pretty wallpaper. I once characterized them as being id and superego with no ego to balance them. Shep and McKay are too busy doing their comedy routine or blowing things up to give much real thought to consequences.

        Certainly, Beckett and Weir were not the most fleshed out characters, but it fell to them to balance the “boys with toys” mentality of the rest of the cast. And with what little they were given, I think they performed admirably. In a show filled with one-dimensional characters, Weir and Beckett were the most complex of the bunch, though obviously that’s not saying much. LOL.

        Any way, that’s my take on the matter. I think any show without an emotional core, even your standard sci-fi action/adventure offering, is bound to be a pretty hollow viewing experience.
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          Originally posted by nowvoyager908 View Post
          I think where I disagree with your take on "heart and soul" is that in my mind, it doesn’t mean always being perfect, or even as always doing the right thing. It’s more a feeling of giving emotional weight to the show . . . to ground the show so that it doesn't fly off into space (no pun intended). LOL. It’s actually more interesting to me to see someone struggle with a decision that may go against their better judgment than to see someone be perfect all the time . . . or to not think or feel at all.

          As much as I love all the characters, Ronon and Teyla are (IMHO) nothing more than pretty wallpaper. I once characterized them as being id and superego with no ego to balance them. Shep and McKay are too busy doing their comedy routine or blowing things up to give much real thought to consequences.

          Certainly, Beckett and Weir were not the most fleshed out characters, but it fell to them to balance the “boys with toys” mentality of the rest of the cast. And with what little they were given, I think they performed admirably. In a show filled with one-dimensional characters, Weir and Beckett were the most complex of the bunch, though obviously that’s not saying much. LOL.

          Any way, that’s my take on the matter. I think any show without an emotional core, even your standard sci-fi action/adventure offering, is bound to be a pretty hollow viewing experience.
          Thank you, nowvoyager908. You said what I was trying to say much more clearly and concisely.
          - Life after Stargate -
          Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * Grimm
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            Originally posted by Suzotchka View Post
            From JM's blog:



            So it's the lack of promotion that is killing the show? Somehow, I don't think that's the *whole* reason.
            nope it is one of the reasons but certainly not the whole reason
            heck not even one of the main reason
            Spoiler:

            "It gets sort of Zen after a while, Life is a Journey. Time is a River. The door is Ajar."
            ~ Waldo Butters, in Dead Beat by Jim Butcher
            Card designed by Falcon Horus

            Comment


              Originally posted by parisindy View Post
              nope it is one of the reasons but certainly not the whole reason
              heck not even one of the main reason
              But it's easier to put the blame somewhere else than to take responsibility for your actions.
              Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

              Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

              Comment


                Heh, I posted something similar over on the Joe thread. Possible contributers to the lower ratings are:

                -6 month delay between 3.0 and 3.5
                -those pesky downloaders
                -poor promotion by skiffy (though I saw far more promotion before 3.5 started than before 3.0)
                -fewer people watching TV overall
                -more competition from other channels/movie premieres/real life
                -Fans losing interest in the show because of [insert specific or overall problem(s) with the writing/characters/etc here]

                Guess which one never gets mentioned by TPTB.

                Comment


                  well if it wasn't for the character changes i would still be watching

                  i mean i don't even get the sci fi channel in canada hehe so i can't say its the advertising :LOL:

                  plus i don't the new episodes on the canadian channel as it plays on a
                  channel that is special order and therefore very pricey

                  the Space channel is showing season 2 at the moment i think
                  Spoiler:

                  "It gets sort of Zen after a while, Life is a Journey. Time is a River. The door is Ajar."
                  ~ Waldo Butters, in Dead Beat by Jim Butcher
                  Card designed by Falcon Horus

                  Comment


                    after roaming through the mckay/hewlett thunker thread I found that the Hewlett has given little titbits of info.

                    one of those has me in a real tissy as

                    Spoiler:
                    he comments that in a scene with Carter, woolsey & Mckay, Mckay is unhappy - he doesnt of course put this in any context. we dont know which ep or why he is unhappy.


                    i just cant wrap mr brain around Carter being in charge, and i know that after all this time its not an option to not except it. but still from the above it looks like its gonna be a swipe match. i hope to god i am wrong and that they act like adults. but this situation fills me with dread and the more i hear the more it sounds like we will get the mckay and carter of such geats like the "pegasus project" where mckay yet again is the butt of the jokes and shouldn't we be all pleased that Carter has swooped in to save the day.

                    okay that was a bit mean. but you all get my drift i dont want mckay to have to prove himself again and i dont want nor need wasted eps telling me why Carter is great and in charge along with a nice few quips at mckays expense. they very neatly did not address the impact of Carsons death/or whatever he is now, so i should think they could not spend to much time on the whole reset theyve got going on... hey ive noticed i seem to have a theme its the not making mckay a dumbass butt of jokes thing perhaps i should see someone about it?

                    anyways sorry that was long winded and not very well thought out but my gut is still churning maybe on reflection ill feel better
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                      Originally posted by ToasterOnFire View Post
                      -Fans losing interest in the show because of [insert specific or overall problem(s) with the writing/characters/etc here]
                      I think the problem with Stargate are excessive standalone episodes. With engaging shows like Lost and Heroes out there, in which everything has a meaning and is connected to something greater and mysterious, viewers can't put up with silly filler eps anymore. If you don't give the viewers a reason to watch the show again next week, they won't. The cast changes are just the final nail.
                      sigpic

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                        Originally posted by parisindy View Post
                        well if it wasn't for the character changes i would still be watching

                        i mean i don't even get the sci fi channel in canada hehe so i can't say its the advertising :LOL:
                        Aaaaactually...all those downloaded files came from Canada, so it's really all your fault that the ratings are down.

                        BLAME CANADA!!

                        Originally posted by stclare View Post
                        after roaming through the mckay/hewlett thunker thread I found that the Hewlett has given little titbits of info.

                        one of those has me in a real tissy as

                        Spoiler:
                        he comments that in a scene with Carter, woolsey & Mckay, Mckay is unhappy - he doesnt of course put this in any context. we dont know which ep or why he is unhappy.
                        After viewing SG1's s9 where everyone was A-OK with total noob Mitchell taking command of the team instead of a more experienced officer or Carter, I'm not so sure that TPTB like to write in internal conflict in the team. Or maybe they learned from that fiasco and they'll write in some real strife regarding Carter. And I'm not talking 5 minutes of strife and then Carter saves the day and everyone loves her sort of strife, I'm talking strife that lasts over several eps and may even cause divisions among team members (military Shep vs. civilian McKay for example).

                        Hmm...I wonder if Carter would have come over to Atlantis if her character had been given definite command in s9 and s10...

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by ToasterOnFire View Post
                          After viewing SG1's s9 where everyone was A-OK with total noob Mitchell taking command of the team instead of a more experienced officer or Carter, I'm not so sure that TPTB like to write in internal conflict in the team. Or maybe they learned from that fiasco and they'll write in some real strife regarding Carter. And I'm not talking 5 minutes of strife and then Carter saves the day and everyone loves her sort of strife, I'm talking strife that lasts over several eps and may even cause divisions among team members (military Shep vs. civilian McKay for example).

                          Hmm...I wonder if Carter would have come over to Atlantis if her character had been given definite command in s9 and s10...
                          I was just going to say that! If TPTB hadn't messed up and had given Carter command of SG-1 would she be coming to Atlantis? JM said in his blog that it was a natural progression for the character to have a command position (and a probably promotion, too) and that they didn't do it in S9 & 10 because they didn't want to ruin the 'team feeling' (or something like that). I'm not even going to post what I thought of S9 & 10.

                          If it was a natural progression for her to be in command, then she should've been given command of SG-1. I don't want Carter on Atlantis.

                          EDIT: I would like to add that even if she wasn't replacing Weir, I still wouldn't want her on Atlantis. Carter has had 10 years to develop. I'd rather see other characters get the screen time.
                          Last edited by Suzotchka; 09 May 2007, 07:15 AM.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by ToasterOnFire View Post
                            After viewing SG1's s9 where everyone was A-OK with total noob Mitchell taking command of the team instead of a more experienced officer or Carter, I'm not so sure that TPTB like to write in internal conflict in the team. Or maybe they learned from that fiasco and they'll write in some real strife regarding Carter. And I'm not talking 5 minutes of strife and then Carter saves the day and everyone loves her sort of strife, I'm talking strife that lasts over several eps and may even cause divisions among team members (military Shep vs. civilian McKay for example).

                            Hmm...I wonder if Carter would have come over to Atlantis if her character had been given definite command in s9 and s10...
                            not having watched sg1 since probably mid season 8 i cant comment on what happened there.
                            for me personaly i would not like to see a division of military/civilian. i much prefer stories where the team are up against it, enthasis on team and dare i say it ..space battles and big explosions. not everyones cup of tea i know. but the less i see of Carter in any context the better
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                              Originally posted by ToasterOnFire View Post
                              Aaaaactually...all those downloaded files came from Canada, so it's really all your fault that the ratings are down.

                              BLAME CANADA!!
                              ehm

                              ehm moving on.. hehe

                              Well I adore Ben Browder, hehehe but Sam was always a little boring to me. I appreciate her character being smart and all that but ...m'eh. He character always seemed necessary to me, the only time I was really interested in her was during the whole Orin and Pete times… and I am not even a shipper, it was more just curious as how it would play out. I have watched sg-1 but not faithfully. I have seen maybe a handful of episodes from season 6 on. So really I can’t comment to much on who should be in command. But maybe simply Sam should have been in charge because that would have made Mitchell the underdog and I always prefer the under dog.

                              Its why I like Shep, even though he’s the military leader, because of his black mark he is also the underdog.

                              Sam coming over is annoying first cause I really love Weir. Second because we have had 10 season of Sam and if they couldn’t make her interesting during that time I can’t see how they will now. Rodney is cooler and smarter... and Canadian hehe. What do we need with both sam and Rodney? Don’t their brains cancel each others out? Then there is the whole military thing… that bugged me in first strike (I keep wanting to call it final strike for some reason hehe maybe cause it was the end of Atlantis for me) This I a civilian operation not a military one. The military is there for back up. They should not be calling the shots.

                              Anyways hehe I could keep ranting, but I need coffee
                              Spoiler:

                              "It gets sort of Zen after a while, Life is a Journey. Time is a River. The door is Ajar."
                              ~ Waldo Butters, in Dead Beat by Jim Butcher
                              Card designed by Falcon Horus

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Killdeer View Post

                                TH said, and I'm quoting from her interview in Stargate Magazine:

                                "I think that is where the writers get frustrated with the actors because we are always up there going "Wait a minute! We just lost one of our guys! Can't it be referenced in the next episode?" Their modus operandi is 'No, this is part of a plot driven show and logistically, we don't know the order of how they will be airing.' I have an issue with that. There was an episode where a new doctor is introduced and I said, 'In this scene, please can I show some sadness? Can there be a beat of that?' And they didn't want to, and I think fans are very loyal to certain characters. I understand where they are coming from but I felt we were missing something, some level of emotion."
                                Thanks for that quote Killdeer.

                                I don't understand how the writers just don't GET IT? If the actors' appreciate that the viewers want to see that kind of emotional response to a character loss, as well as want to ACT that kind of response themselves, then SURELY the flippin' writers do?

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