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View Full Version : The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.



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justhere1971
October 14th, 2007, 05:33 PM
So is that confirmed that Elizabeth dies, or is it him talking about the fact that they left her out there in lifeline? Was he talking about that ep (which we know she comes back from) or This Mortal Coil, which I think is the one that really sounds like she's going to die, given the name. Ugh. If they kill her off, they're insane.

Oh goodness! I hope that's not what it means. I hope it's more like she's
taken by the replicators and they don't know her status - they presume she's dead, until they find her ...

Ruined_puzzle
October 14th, 2007, 05:43 PM
Aw, JF is awesome. ZOMG, he needs to be on a good show once SGA gets cancelled, a show where they actually listen to him because he makes alot of sense.

ToasterOnFire
October 14th, 2007, 05:57 PM
So what's with the ratings, guys??
I have a feeling that Joe M. is going to stay mum on the Live rating. We won't see them until 2 weeks after the air date or if they show up in a press release (which generally only happens if there's good news or news spun as good news ;)).

It sounds like JF has a good idea of how people realistically respond to big events - maybe he could be part of the next PTB?

Chrysalis
October 14th, 2007, 06:01 PM
Aw, JF is awesome. ZOMG, he needs to be on a good show once SGA gets cancelled, a show where they actually listen to him because he makes alot of sense.


Absolutely. He has enough of a brain to get the audience and the way the audience thinks, which I think is sadly lacking among tptb. I think they sit in their ivory tower too much, and don't get a real feel for what's going on out there. JF has done conventions. He knows how the fans feel about Paul and Torri.

I'm amazed that he's the only one who's come out and said that they miss them. The rest of them seem to be saying nothing for some reason. Maybe they're worried they'll be the next one to be offed if they say something!

Ruined_puzzle
October 14th, 2007, 06:07 PM
Absolutely. He has enough of a brain to get the audience and the way the audience thinks, which I think is sadly lacking among tptb. I think they sit in their ivory tower too much, and don't get a real feel for what's going on out there. JF has done conventions. He knows how the fans feel about Paul and Torri.

I'm amazed that he's the only one who's come out and said that they miss them. The rest of them seem to be saying nothing for some reason. Maybe they're worried they'll be the next one to be offed if they say something!

They can't get rid of Joe, but OMG I thought the same thing about Torri. Joe needs to be careful. lol.

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 06:11 PM
And we have fun here!!! And by the way I like germans a LOT.

So what's with the ratings, guys??

The rating system has officially changed since the September premiere week. DVR has more than doubled in households and it is causing live ratings to go down. So they are implementing the newly DVR Live + 3, which is 3 days after the show airs counts DVR playback. This is huge for SGA since it airs late on Friday night. Shows are not losing viewers they are just viewing at different times according to some Network Execs. A good example is Eureka which fell to a 1.2 HH the same week Adrift premiered. A press release from Sci-fi stated that Eureka had about a 0.3 DVR bleed off for last season. We basically do not know where ratings stand at this point, to what is good or bad. It's a totally different ballgame.

So my point, if you see a number that looks low, that is not the final number according to TPTB. Question is will Live + 3 be released to the public? We will know in about 2 hours.

mcbarr
October 14th, 2007, 06:12 PM
Put Sheppard in charge of the show for crying out loud! :D

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 06:14 PM
Put Sheppard in charge of the show for crying out loud! :D

How about we get Weir back in charge and Carter can stay for support. :p

Ruined_puzzle
October 14th, 2007, 06:17 PM
How about we get Weir back in charge and Carter can stay for support. :p

That would have been okay, the thing is, it's painfully obvious that's not what tptb want. Otherwise there would have been a lot more Elizabeth than just 4 episodes.

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 06:18 PM
That would have been okay, the thing is, it's painfully obvious that's not what tptb want. Otherwise there would have been a lot more Elizabeth than just 4 episodes.

I agree. This is the only thing that is killing me, is Weir's reduced role. I just hope she does not get the Ford treatment. That will not be cool to do to a character who was full time for 3 whole seasons.

justhere1971
October 14th, 2007, 06:22 PM
They can't get rid of Joe, but OMG I thought the same thing about Torri. Joe needs to be careful. lol.

You said it ... specially after him mentioning that they stopped asking him/running ideas past him. Obviously his ideas didn't mesh with the writer/producers. And how much do I love Joe right now for saying "if I, for example, was really upset when they got rid of Paul and they told me after they had done it. I think if they had told me beforehand, maybe I could have altered the circumstances a little bit."

They seriously need to adjust their messed up thinking. Go Joe. Gosh I need an icon made.

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 06:25 PM
You said it ... specially after him mentioning that they stopped asking him/running ideas past him. Obviously his ideas didn't mesh with the writer/producers. And how much do I love Joe right now for saying "if I, for example, was really upset when they got rid of Paul and they told me after they had done it. I think if they had told me beforehand, maybe I could have altered the circumstances a little bit."

They seriously need to adjust their messed up thinking. Go Joe. Gosh I need an icon made.

With Joe being Show Runner if we get a 5th season, that will be good right? Perhaps he can make possible changes.

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 06:27 PM
She's already been given the Ford treatment. She's not in any of the back half of the season.

What's disgusting is that she was dumped from the credits before she was even gone. That's an even more cold-hearted act than I expected from TPTB. Torri has been a huge part of this series, and for them to do that to her, when she's been nothing but positive about being part of the show, and has never openly slagged them off is disgusting. If they only wanted to do one set of credits, fine, just go without for the first two episodes. That would be no big deal. But to have Carter in and Weir out in the opening credits tells all these 'casual viewers' who Mallozzi seems to think don't care about the characters that Elizabeth is gone, and that Godforsaken relic from SG1, Samantha frigging Carter is there fulltime.

They've shown no respect to Torri, through dumping her from the credits, and through making statements like "I'm happy with the way we dealt with Weir" or "it had to be done". No, it didn't have to be done, unless you wanted to bring Carter in. They can deny links as much as they want, but anyone with half a brain can see the two are connected.

If I was a casual viewer, not being a fan of Carter, seeing her in the credits and Weir not would be enough to make me tune out, whether Torri was in the eps or not.

I have to agree. They should of taken her out of the credits for "Reunion".

Also, we don't know if she has gotten the Ford treatment. She can very well be back if we get a 5th season.

justhere1971
October 14th, 2007, 06:28 PM
With Joe being Show Runner if we get a 5th season, that will be good right? Perhaps he can make possible changes.

Well I seriously doubt they'd put Joe on as show runner ala RDA on SG1. I would love to be wrong and there be a Season 5. Like I said earlier, I am an optimistic person, who likes to have hope.

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 06:28 PM
Well I seriously doubt they'd put Joe on as show runner ala RDA on SG1. I would love to be wrong and there be a Season 5. Like I said earlier, I am an optimistic person, who likes to have hope.

Joe said he would be show runner if there was a 5th season. It was in his blog a few weeks ago.

He also said Brad and Rob would be focused on SGU or some other SG project.

Ruined_puzzle
October 14th, 2007, 06:30 PM
With Joe being Show Runner if we get a 5th season, that will be good right? Perhaps he can make possible changes.

I think you got the Joe's confused. She's talking about Joe Flannigan not JM.

JF was the one that made the statement that if he knew about Paul before hand it might not have turned out the way it did.


JT what would the icon say. "JF silent Torri and Paul supporter".

"JF for ptb".

"JF he knows what we want"

Or the obvious "JF is HOT". LOL.

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 06:31 PM
I think you get the Joe's confused. She's talking about Joe Flannigan not JM.

JF was the one that made the statement that if he knew about Paul before hand it might not have turned out the way it did.


JT what would the icon say. JF silent Torri and Paul supporter.

JF for ptb.

JF he knows what we want.

Or the obvious JF is HOT. LOL.

Oh I'm sorry, my bad. :p That would be interesting if Joe Flanigan can be like the RDA of SG-1!

Skydiver
October 14th, 2007, 06:32 PM
going by an example from babylon 5, i'm sure torri not being in the credits was simply a contractural issue.

when claudia christian quit and they got a season 5 without her in it, the finale for s4 got moved to be the show's total finale...so they tossed together a new season finale...and had to quickly reedit the credts because, had cladia been in them, she would have been paid for a whole season's work...a season she wasnt' in.

I know it's odd and i know it's weird...but i think it is also what happened in s7 when MS returned and corin left...corin, before he officially 'left' was reduced to guest starring status and michael, before he'd officiall returned, was added back into the credits.

I know, in reunion, i really didn't care for the rodney bit in the beginning.

funny, sure. but you know, i'm kinda tired of him being hte butt of the jokes. I feel sorry for the poor guy, always coming up short

ToasterOnFire
October 14th, 2007, 06:37 PM
How about we get Weir back in charge and Carter can stay for support. :p
I would have been much happier to see the two women working side by side or even having conflicts over civilian/scientist vs. military. :(


With Joe being Show Runner if we get a 5th season, that will be good right? Perhaps he can make possible changes.
I don't think Joe M. is really interested in bringing back Weir, to be honest. But if JF was in charge we would definitely see skateboarding in Atlantis. :D :D

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 06:39 PM
I would have been much happier to see the two women working side by side or even having conflicts over civilian/scientist vs. military. :(

That would be cool. Maybe season 5? :S :p

I don't think Joe M. is really interested in bringing back Weir, to be honest. But if JF was in charge we would definitely see skateboarding in Atlantis. :D :D

LOL, Joe F is the man! Even if he did make fun of me in that video. :p

Ruined_puzzle
October 14th, 2007, 06:40 PM
I don't think Joe M. is really interested in bringing back Weir, to be honest. But if JF was in charge we would definitely see skateboarding in Atlantis. :D :D

YAY skateboarding.

skateboarding PWNS golf.

Southern Red
October 14th, 2007, 06:45 PM
It's interesting how TPTB chose to observe the regs when it suited them (non-frat regs *glares SJ*) and now Sam runs with her hair blowing all over the place... :(

I should have mentioned this when I said what I did about saluting. The hair is definitely a problem. The Air Force says it has to be off the collar and neat. But again, they go by the regs that suit them. JM also addressed this on his blog today.


Absolutely. He has enough of a brain to get the audience and the way the audience thinks, which I think is sadly lacking among tptb. I think they sit in their ivory tower too much, and don't get a real feel for what's going on out there. JF has done conventions. He knows how the fans feel about Paul and Torri.

I'm amazed that he's the only one who's come out and said that they miss them. The rest of them seem to be saying nothing for some reason. Maybe they're worried they'll be the next one to be offed if they say something!

The rest are afraid to speak up. You and I know that JF can't be censored or stifled. LOL. I love that he stands up for his co-workers this way.


You said it ... specially after him mentioning that they stopped asking him/running ideas past him. Obviously his ideas didn't mesh with the writer/producers. And how much do I love Joe right now for saying "if I, for example, was really upset when they got rid of Paul and they told me after they had done it. I think if they had told me beforehand, maybe I could have altered the circumstances a little bit."

They seriously need to adjust their messed up thinking. Go Joe. Gosh I need an icon made.

I continue to be amazed that TPTB ignore feedback from people like JF who hear the same thing from fans all the time. He is obviously interested in making a show that fans can approve of. It sounds like from some things he said, that the network may be behind a lot of this.

I read today that movie makers use a computer model to test ideas. Dear God, help us if SciFi does this. Plug in the supposed demographic and spew out the old opinions. LOL.


going by an example from babylon 5, i'm sure torri not being in the credits was simply a contractural issue.

when claudia christian quit and they got a season 5 without her in it, the finale for s4 got moved to be the show's total finale...so they tossed together a new season finale...and had to quickly reedit the credts because, had cladia been in them, she would have been paid for a whole season's work...a season she wasnt' in.

I know it's odd and i know it's weird...but i think it is also what happened in s7 when MS returned and corin left...corin, before he officially 'left' was reduced to guest starring status and michael, before he'd officiall returned, was added back into the credits.

I know, in reunion, i really didn't care for the rodney bit in the beginning.

funny, sure. but you know, i'm kinda tired of him being hte butt of the jokes. I feel sorry for the poor guy, always coming up short

Sadly, you're probably right about the credits. I watched the season premier of Las Vegas online today and the new credits were just like SGA. Tom Selleck's name was listed and James Caan was a "special guest star". Just how it's done I think.

justhere1971
October 14th, 2007, 06:53 PM
I think you got the Joe's confused. She's talking about Joe Flannigan not JM.

JF was the one that made the statement that if he knew about Paul before hand it might not have turned out the way it did.


JT what would the icon say. "JF silent Torri and Paul supporter".

"JF for ptb".

"JF he knows what we want"

Or the obvious "JF is HOT". LOL.

That made me :lol: But I'd love one w/ JF for ptb! Thanks R_P!

justhere1971
October 14th, 2007, 06:57 PM
YAY skateboarding.

skateboarding PWNS golf.

:D can you imagine? Skateboarding past Weir's office LMAO ... she'd so kick his @ss for that and then make him pay.

justhere1971
October 14th, 2007, 06:57 PM
LOL, Joe F is the man! Even if he did make fun of me in that video. :p

So you are squall? LMAO

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 06:58 PM
So you are squall? LMAO

Shhh don't tell anyone. :p

Southern Red
October 14th, 2007, 06:59 PM
:D can you imagine? Skateboarding past Weir's office LMAO ... she'd so kick his @ss for that and then make him pay.

Awww. I can see it now. Good times. Good times. *wipes a tear of regret while simultaneously sticking another pin in an effigy of...well someone*

ToasterOnFire
October 14th, 2007, 07:03 PM
:D can you imagine? Skateboarding past Weir's office LMAO ... she'd so kick his @ss for that and then make him pay.
I pictured him kicking off a ramp and jumping through the Stargate, actually. Ronon would smirk, Teyla would roll her eyes, Rodney would say "Ooh ooh, me next!" and Carter would die of shock. :D :D

justhere1971
October 14th, 2007, 07:04 PM
Awww. I can see it now. Good times. Good times. *wipes a tear of regret while simultaneously sticking another pin in an effigy of...well someone*

*snicker* I have a certain someone's likeness in mind... wears ill fitting suits ALL the time! ;)

justhere1971
October 14th, 2007, 07:05 PM
I pictured him kicking off a ramp and jumping through the Stargate, actually. Ronon would smirk, Teyla would roll her eyes, Rodney would say "Ooh ooh, me next!" and Carter would die of shock. :D :D

muwahahaha - so good!
Funny thing is I can so picture this!

Ruined_puzzle
October 14th, 2007, 07:16 PM
Awww. I can see it now. Good times. Good times. *wipes a tear of regret while simultaneously sticking another pin in an effigy of...well someone*

LMAO.

If JF has been in charge they would have build a skateboarding ramp someplace in Atlantis. I mean golf, golf, is just boring. lol. I think Ronon would have found skateboarding alot more interesting than golf.

Erised
October 14th, 2007, 07:26 PM
Wow I really, really love Joe now. Thanks Joe for standing up for us!
I can't believe they wanted to move on as if Weir was never there. WTH? Thay doesn't make any sense.... here is proof what malozzi really thinks of Torri.

Erised
October 14th, 2007, 07:32 PM
She's already been given the Ford treatment. She's not in any of the back half of the season.

What's disgusting is that she was dumped from the credits before she was even gone. That's an even more cold-hearted act than I expected from TPTB. Torri has been a huge part of this series, and for them to do that to her, when she's been nothing but positive about being part of the show, and has never openly slagged them off is disgusting. If they only wanted to do one set of credits, fine, just go without for the first two episodes. That would be no big deal. But to have Carter in and Weir out in the opening credits tells all these 'casual viewers' who Mallozzi seems to think don't care about the characters that Elizabeth is gone, and that Godforsaken relic from SG1, Samantha frigging Carter is there fulltime.

They've shown no respect to Torri, through dumping her from the credits, and through making statements like "I'm happy with the way we dealt with Weir" or "it had to be done". No, it didn't have to be done, unless you wanted to bring Carter in. They can deny links as much as they want, but anyone with half a brain can see the two are connected.

If I was a casual viewer, not being a fan of Carter, seeing her in the credits and Weir not would be enough to make me tune out, whether Torri was in the eps or not.


Good post! I don't doubt that they told her to say that she agrees with the decision... but anyone who listened to the interview could tell how upset she sounded when she said that. It didn't have to be done. Here is a really bad comparison: What did Hammond ever did? Compared to Weir, NOTHING! He never even went off world! And yet he stayed on the show for whay, 7 seasons? And wasn't killed either. JM can talk all he wants about what made him make this decision... but the only reason is Tapping.

parisindy
October 14th, 2007, 07:37 PM
I saw Joe Flanigan on the weekend [lol, like it's so casual, it happens all the time, yeah...] and he made some interesting comments when I asked if he thought that the producers were trying to make Atlantis more like Stargate, what with Amanda coming over:

OMG were you interviewing him for something or was this at a panel or something?



That is EXACTLY what I and a lot of other people have been saying here, Parisindy, remember that conversation about 'emotional investments'? He totally gets us. And it's a shame that the producers don't let him in on their decisions anymore, because if he had more leverage, the show would be so much better and I wouldn't have to be anti since he wouldn't let anyone go! I just don't know how he can make so much sense and the people in charge don't get what he's saying.

i've said it before and i'll say it again... I love joe http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/wub.gif



Secondly, he totally gets us! He's that one voice!!!! I wish the producers had integrity like his.

amen!



Joe seems to be about 100 times more in tune with the audience than the producers/writers are. The guy knows what he's talking about.

love the joe the joe is good


You said it ... specially after him mentioning that they stopped asking him/running ideas past him. Obviously his ideas didn't mesh with the writer/producers. And how much do I love Joe right now for saying "if I, for example, was really upset when they got rid of Paul and they told me after they had done it. I think if they had told me beforehand, maybe I could have altered the circumstances a little bit."

They seriously need to adjust their messed up thinking. Go Joe. Gosh I need an icon made.

have i mentioned that i love joe? hehe Can i see your icon!?

Skydiver
October 14th, 2007, 07:44 PM
actually, hammond did go off world 3 times

in prisoners to negotiate for sg1's release
in Into the Fire to rescue sg1 when the pentagon wouldn't let him send a team
in Fallen when Earth was under attack

As much as i personally liked sam going to rescue shep and the guys, i'm also very glad that it's not gonna happen very often...and the next time that it does, she needs a good reason. I love action sam...but that's not her job now. She needs to stay home and, to paraphrase shep to teyla, she needs to be there to take care of those left behind. she's responsible for the city now, not just one team

parisindy
October 14th, 2007, 07:52 PM
Aw, JF is awesome. ZOMG, he needs to be on a good show once SGA gets cancelled, a show where they actually listen to him because he makes alot of sense.

totally agree!


She's already been given the Ford treatment. She's not in any of the back half of the season.

What's disgusting is that she was dumped from the credits before she was even gone. That's an even more cold-hearted act than I expected from TPTB. Torri has been a huge part of this series, and for them to do that to her, when she's been nothing but positive about being part of the show, and has never openly slagged them off is disgusting. If they only wanted to do one set of credits, fine, just go without for the first two episodes. That would be no big deal. But to have Carter in and Weir out in the opening credits tells all these 'casual viewers' who Mallozzi seems to think don't care about the characters that Elizabeth is gone, and that Godforsaken relic from SG1, Samantha frigging Carter is there fulltime.

They've shown no respect to Torri, through dumping her from the credits, and through making statements like "I'm happy with the way we dealt with Weir" or "it had to be done". No, it didn't have to be done, unless you wanted to bring Carter in. They can deny links as much as they want, but anyone with half a brain can see the two are connected.

If I was a casual viewer, not being a fan of Carter, seeing her in the credits and Weir not would be enough to make me tune out, whether Torri was in the eps or not.

see i dislike sam and keller alot! but i wouldn still be watching it if they didn't get rid of paul and torri... if sam was casual she would annoy me but i could live with it... and if keller was playing carson's zelenka i would be okay with that too


I would have been much happier to see the two women working side by side or even having conflicts over civilian/scientist vs. military. :(

well not so much side by side... but yeah



I don't think Joe M. is really interested in bringing back Weir, to be honest. But if JF was in charge we would definitely see skateboarding in Atlantis. :D :D

hehe that would be awesome!



YAY skateboarding.

skateboarding PWNS golf.

okay i think i'm to old i just can never get used to this new language


:D can you imagine? Skateboarding past Weir's office LMAO ... she'd so kick his @ss for that and then make him pay.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/shep_skate.gif


Awww. I can see it now. Good times. Good times. *wipes a tear of regret while simultaneously sticking another pin in an effigy of...well someone*


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/candle.gif

nowvoyager908
October 14th, 2007, 07:53 PM
I saw Joe Flanigan on the weekend [lol, like it's so casual, it happens all the time, yeah...] and he made some interesting comments when I asked if he thought that the producers were trying to make Atlantis more like Stargate, what with Amanda coming over:


"He [Chris] also has a guest spot but that’s about it. The truth is that there are overlapping reality, SG-1 and Atlantis, we have a similar landscape that we all live in. We go through the Stargate and everything else. It’s not unreasonable that they would show up occasionally. But I’m the one who voiced a slight concern about bringing over too many characters from SG-1 before you lose your identity as the show. I think with Amanda, it pretty much stays there and occasionally, Michael or Chris will come on, but I don’t think you’re going to see too much more of that, so I think you’re ok. And it’s weird, because they’re really popular characters, people want to see them. And you have to be careful, you know, that you’re staying true to your show."

I think Joe's in tune with what the fans want. I like that he voices the opinion that 'hey, guys? Uh, this is SGA, not SG-1. If you've gotta bring Amanda over, whatever, but don't dilute our individuality anymore than that, 'kay?' Otherwise this isn't *our* show anymore.



Oh, god, I love Joe so much. No one even brought up Torri's name, or Elizabeth, they asked about his desire to have a combative relationship between Shep and Carter, and he goes on a tangent that reflects a lot of the problems I had with s4 and the reason that I'm anti:


“"I miss Torri…it’s a tough position for everybody to be in. Because we all like Torri and we all like Amanda and we’re not producers, we’re just actors, we just tend to be enjoying ourselves and we’re mercifully spared of all that political junk.

So it was a slightly awkward thing to do and I have to say, it was interesting because we’d be shooting the first episodes with Amanda in it, and they said, “We just went right over the fact that Torri had died- WHOOM and we’re onto the next thing and I’m like, ‘Don’t you think we should kind of just stop for a minute and say, ‘Ohhh, I miss…I miss Dr Weir…? Now let’s go do something.’ And they were like, ‘Oh, yeah, that’s a great idea. That’s right, she did die, sentimentality, that’s good, I like that.’ The fact that we have to remind them sometimes shows how far they are down the road.

But this is science fiction, as you know, she could be back anytime, anyway, anyhow. And so she could- it could be Torri Higginson playing Colonel John Sheppard next season…”

The part in bold just made me laugh!

I also asked what his thoughts were on TPTB writing out all these characters, because that's the HUGEST problem that I have with SGA:

"Why are they killing people off? That is a question best addressed to the producers. I am a fierce guardian of the actors. I love my actors and I defend them all the time and I will go to town on the producers and writers for the actors all the time which makes me a bit of a thorn in their side. But I’m okay with that. That’s kind of the character I play anyways, right? And so I am no longer privy to the inner workings of their thought process. I think initially they wanted to include me in all this and then they realized I was uncomfortable with their thought process. I, for example, was really upset when they got rid of Paul and they told me after they had done it. I think if they had told me beforehand, maybe I could have altered the circumstances a little bit.

And you know, it’s an interesting thing when you’re an actor, there is sometimes friction between producers and actors in terms of who has power and leverage, and this takes place on a lot of shows, and a lot less on our show, our show is not so much like this really. There will be an act sometimes to show who’s in charge. More importantly, there is a fictional reality, if there is such a term, there is a reality of our fictional universe which is that characters come and go and characters die and you’ll notice that the networks are pressuring the shows constantly to raise the stakes, kill characters. They want the audience to invest in characters and then kill them off. They want to create as much emotional mayhem as they can with the audience because they believe that is what attaches people to the show.

I think it’s pretty short-lived, you know, with Paul for example, I said ‘We’re going to kill him, we may get a short spike in the ratings but it’ll go back down. I don’t think we’re going to benefit at all from this type of thing.’ The audience is the opposite, they invest in a character, they want to see them...So...I’m just one voice. I don’t know what else to say about that. I’m still here!"

That is EXACTLY what I and a lot of other people have been saying here, Parisindy, remember that conversation about 'emotional investments'? He totally gets us. And it's a shame that the producers don't let him in on their decisions anymore, because if he had more leverage, the show would be so much better and I wouldn't have to be anti since he wouldn't let anyone go! I just don't know how he can make so much sense and the people in charge don't get what he's saying.



Seriously, are they out yet? People have been talking about them for ages and yet I haven't heard anything...


Thanks for sharing this. I'm glad to see that my love for JF is not misplaced. LOL. Too bad it just isn't enough to make me watch SGA any more. Still it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside to read that he realizes viewers become emotionally attached to characters and killing them off is not the way to go. Too bad TPTB are not as enlightened; guess they've been stuck in that ivory tower way too long.

parisindy
October 14th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Thanks for sharing this. I'm glad to see that my love for JF is not misplaced. LOL. Too bad it just isn't enough to make me watch SGA any more. Still it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside to read that he realizes viewers become emotionally attached to characters and killing them off is not the way to go. Too bad TPTB are not as enlightened; guess they've been stuck in that ivory tower way too long.

i think its waaaaaay to late to save it... but i still love the joe.... i will always love the characters that drew me to the show ... i like them therefore i'm anti

silkie
October 14th, 2007, 08:11 PM
1.2 it's official now!!!
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=7218498#post7218498
LMAO
Let's see how they spin it!

parisindy
October 14th, 2007, 08:14 PM
1.2 it's official now!!!
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=7218498#post7218498
LMAO
Let's see how they spin it!

about friggin time!

as for the rating...this is my surprised face http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/bored.gif

nowvoyager908
October 14th, 2007, 08:14 PM
Well, SciFi just posted the ratings for Adrift on their site. It is still 1.2, in third place for the week behind Ghost Hunter and Eureka. Good news - it beat out wrestling. That's got to count for something. LOL.

Still no word on Lifeline or Reunion though. The suspense is killing me. ;)

parisindy
October 14th, 2007, 08:16 PM
oh so it wasn't last week's show then?

nowvoyager908
October 14th, 2007, 08:24 PM
oh so it wasn't last week's show then?

No. It's for the week ending 9/30/07.

Ruined_puzzle
October 14th, 2007, 08:29 PM
1.2 it's official now!!!
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=7218498#post7218498
LMAO
Let's see how they spin it!

LMAO. Okay so the ratings didn't go up, not even with the DVR. LOL.

This is the one with the DVR ratings included right?

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 08:30 PM
Well, SciFi just posted the ratings for Adrift on their site. It is still 1.2, in third place for the week behind Ghost Hunter and Eureka. Good news - it beat out wrestling. That's got to count for something. LOL.

Still no word on Lifeline or Reunion though. The suspense is killing me. ;)


LMAO. Okay so the ratings didn't go up, not even with the DVR. LOL.

This is the one with the DVR ratings included right?


Only the Live + same day. Live + 3 has not been included. It could very well uptick up by an 0.2 to 0.3! It's possible not definite, but I am confidant it will be a significant change.

Edit: Live + 3 is a new system since DVR is having more than a 20% impact on ratings overall.

Ruined_puzzle
October 14th, 2007, 08:38 PM
Only the Live + same day. Live + 3 has not been included. It could very well uptick up by an 0.2 to 0.3! It's possible not definite, but I am confidant it will be a significant change.

Edit: Live + 3 is a new system since DVR is having more than a 20% impact on ratings overall.

Wait..so why did they wait 2 weeks to release this number when we already knew what it was. So it's possible they won't release the live+ 3 ratings. They'll probably just keep it to themselves.

Briangate78
October 14th, 2007, 08:40 PM
Wait..so why did they wait 2 weeks to release this number when we already knew what it was. So it's possible they won't release the live+ 3 ratings. They'll probably just keep it to themselves.

No one seems to know. It's a new system by nielsen media because DVR use has more than doubled. Actually!!! Joe M will tell us in his blog. I think he said we should see something by tuesday.

Irish Eyes
October 14th, 2007, 09:49 PM
I saw Joe Flanigan on the weekend [lol, like it's so casual, it happens all the time, yeah...] and he made some interesting comments when I asked if he thought that the producers were trying to make Atlantis more like Stargate, what with Amanda coming over:


"He [Chris] also has a guest spot but that’s about it. The truth is that there are overlapping reality, SG-1 and Atlantis, we have a similar landscape that we all live in. We go through the Stargate and everything else. It’s not unreasonable that they would show up occasionally. But I’m the one who voiced a slight concern about bringing over too many characters from SG-1 before you lose your identity as the show. I think with Amanda, it pretty much stays there and occasionally, Michael or Chris will come on, but I don’t think you’re going to see too much more of that, so I think you’re ok. And it’s weird, because they’re really popular characters, people want to see them. And you have to be careful, you know, that you’re staying true to your show."

I think Joe's in tune with what the fans want. I like that he voices the opinion that 'hey, guys? Uh, this is SGA, not SG-1. If you've gotta bring Amanda over, whatever, but don't dilute our individuality anymore than that, 'kay?' Otherwise this isn't *our* show anymore.



Oh, god, I love Joe so much. No one even brought up Torri's name, or Elizabeth, they asked about his desire to have a combative relationship between Shep and Carter, and he goes on a tangent that reflects a lot of the problems I had with s4 and the reason that I'm anti:


“"I miss Torri…it’s a tough position for everybody to be in. Because we all like Torri and we all like Amanda and we’re not producers, we’re just actors, we just tend to be enjoying ourselves and we’re mercifully spared of all that political junk.

So it was a slightly awkward thing to do and I have to say, it was interesting because we’d be shooting the first episodes with Amanda in it, and they said, “We just went right over the fact that Torri had died- WHOOM and we’re onto the next thing and I’m like, ‘Don’t you think we should kind of just stop for a minute and say, ‘Ohhh, I miss…I miss Dr Weir…? Now let’s go do something.’ And they were like, ‘Oh, yeah, that’s a great idea. That’s right, she did die, sentimentality, that’s good, I like that.’ The fact that we have to remind them sometimes shows how far they are down the road.

But this is science fiction, as you know, she could be back anytime, anyway, anyhow. And so she could- it could be Torri Higginson playing Colonel John Sheppard next season…”

The part in bold just made me laugh!

I also asked what his thoughts were on TPTB writing out all these characters, because that's the HUGEST problem that I have with SGA:

"Why are they killing people off? That is a question best addressed to the producers. I am a fierce guardian of the actors. I love my actors and I defend them all the time and I will go to town on the producers and writers for the actors all the time which makes me a bit of a thorn in their side. But I’m okay with that. That’s kind of the character I play anyways, right? And so I am no longer privy to the inner workings of their thought process. I think initially they wanted to include me in all this and then they realized I was uncomfortable with their thought process. I, for example, was really upset when they got rid of Paul and they told me after they had done it. I think if they had told me beforehand, maybe I could have altered the circumstances a little bit.

And you know, it’s an interesting thing when you’re an actor, there is sometimes friction between producers and actors in terms of who has power and leverage, and this takes place on a lot of shows, and a lot less on our show, our show is not so much like this really. There will be an act sometimes to show who’s in charge. More importantly, there is a fictional reality, if there is such a term, there is a reality of our fictional universe which is that characters come and go and characters die and you’ll notice that the networks are pressuring the shows constantly to raise the stakes, kill characters. They want the audience to invest in characters and then kill them off. They want to create as much emotional mayhem as they can with the audience because they believe that is what attaches people to the show.

I think it’s pretty short-lived, you know, with Paul for example, I said ‘We’re going to kill him, we may get a short spike in the ratings but it’ll go back down. I don’t think we’re going to benefit at all from this type of thing.’ The audience is the opposite, they invest in a character, they want to see them...So...I’m just one voice. I don’t know what else to say about that. I’m still here!"

That is EXACTLY what I and a lot of other people have been saying here, Parisindy, remember that conversation about 'emotional investments'? He totally gets us. And it's a shame that the producers don't let him in on their decisions anymore, because if he had more leverage, the show would be so much better and I wouldn't have to be anti since he wouldn't let anyone go! I just don't know how he can make so much sense and the people in charge don't get what he's saying.


Thank you so much for this!!! Just when I thought I couldn't love this guy any more... :D It's really nice to see someone who's not afraid to speak up. JOE ROCKS!!!


Aw, JF is awesome. ZOMG, he needs to be on a good show once SGA gets cancelled, a show where they actually listen to him because he makes alot of sense.

I want a show with BOTH Joe & Torri where they exploit their awesome on-screen chemistry. We could come up with all kinds of scenarios. :)


:D can you imagine? Skateboarding past Weir's office LMAO ... she'd so kick his @ss for that and then make him pay.


I pictured him kicking off a ramp and jumping through the Stargate, actually. Ronon would smirk, Teyla would roll her eyes, Rodney would say "Ooh ooh, me next!" and Carter would die of shock. :D :D

:lol:
I'd pay money to see both of these!

Vale_Sg1
October 14th, 2007, 10:32 PM
Wait..so why did they wait 2 weeks to release this number when we already knew what it was. So it's possible they won't release the live+ 3 ratings. They'll probably just keep it to themselves.

I just posted a similar comment in the ratings thread. Anti minds think alike.
I bet we'll get the same answers, and I think I can start quoting by heart...

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard that argument I could buy MGM by now...(and hopefully invest so we can bring SGA back to the good ole days...and beyond!!):ronan:

Vale_Sg1
October 14th, 2007, 11:02 PM
I saw Joe Flanigan on the weekend [lol, like it's so casual, it happens all the time, yeah...] and he made some interesting comments when I asked if he thought that the producers were trying to make Atlantis more like Stargate, what with Amanda coming over:


"He [Chris] also has a guest spot but that’s about it. The truth is that there are overlapping reality, SG-1 and Atlantis, we have a similar landscape that we all live in. We go through the Stargate and everything else. It’s not unreasonable that they would show up occasionally. But I’m the one who voiced a slight concern about bringing over too many characters from SG-1 before you lose your identity as the show. I think with Amanda, it pretty much stays there and occasionally, Michael or Chris will come on, but I don’t think you’re going to see too much more of that, so I think you’re ok. And it’s weird, because they’re really popular characters, people want to see them. And you have to be careful, you know, that you’re staying true to your show."

I think Joe's in tune with what the fans want. I like that he voices the opinion that 'hey, guys? Uh, this is SGA, not SG-1. If you've gotta bring Amanda over, whatever, but don't dilute our individuality anymore than that, 'kay?' Otherwise this isn't *our* show anymore.



Oh, god, I love Joe so much. No one even brought up Torri's name, or Elizabeth, they asked about his desire to have a combative relationship between Shep and Carter, and he goes on a tangent that reflects a lot of the problems I had with s4 and the reason that I'm anti:


“"I miss Torri…it’s a tough position for everybody to be in. Because we all like Torri and we all like Amanda and we’re not producers, we’re just actors, we just tend to be enjoying ourselves and we’re mercifully spared of all that political junk.

So it was a slightly awkward thing to do and I have to say, it was interesting because we’d be shooting the first episodes with Amanda in it, and they said, “We just went right over the fact that Torri had died- WHOOM and we’re onto the next thing and I’m like, ‘Don’t you think we should kind of just stop for a minute and say, ‘Ohhh, I miss…I miss Dr Weir…? Now let’s go do something.’ And they were like, ‘Oh, yeah, that’s a great idea. That’s right, she did die, sentimentality, that’s good, I like that.’ The fact that we have to remind them sometimes shows how far they are down the road.

But this is science fiction, as you know, she could be back anytime, anyway, anyhow. And so she could- it could be Torri Higginson playing Colonel John Sheppard next season…”

The part in bold just made me laugh!

I also asked what his thoughts were on TPTB writing out all these characters, because that's the HUGEST problem that I have with SGA:

"Why are they killing people off? That is a question best addressed to the producers. I am a fierce guardian of the actors. I love my actors and I defend them all the time and I will go to town on the producers and writers for the actors all the time which makes me a bit of a thorn in their side. But I’m okay with that. That’s kind of the character I play anyways, right? And so I am no longer privy to the inner workings of their thought process. I think initially they wanted to include me in all this and then they realized I was uncomfortable with their thought process. I, for example, was really upset when they got rid of Paul and they told me after they had done it. I think if they had told me beforehand, maybe I could have altered the circumstances a little bit.

And you know, it’s an interesting thing when you’re an actor, there is sometimes friction between producers and actors in terms of who has power and leverage, and this takes place on a lot of shows, and a lot less on our show, our show is not so much like this really. There will be an act sometimes to show who’s in charge. More importantly, there is a fictional reality, if there is such a term, there is a reality of our fictional universe which is that characters come and go and characters die and you’ll notice that the networks are pressuring the shows constantly to raise the stakes, kill characters. They want the audience to invest in characters and then kill them off. They want to create as much emotional mayhem as they can with the audience because they believe that is what attaches people to the show.

I think it’s pretty short-lived, you know, with Paul for example, I said ‘We’re going to kill him, we may get a short spike in the ratings but it’ll go back down. I don’t think we’re going to benefit at all from this type of thing.’ The audience is the opposite, they invest in a character, they want to see them...So...I’m just one voice. I don’t know what else to say about that. I’m still here!"

That is EXACTLY what I and a lot of other people have been saying here, Parisindy, remember that conversation about 'emotional investments'? He totally gets us. And it's a shame that the producers don't let him in on their decisions anymore, because if he had more leverage, the show would be so much better and I wouldn't have to be anti since he wouldn't let anyone go! I just don't know how he can make so much sense and the people in charge don't get what he's saying.

Seriously, are they out yet? People have been talking about them for ages and yet I haven't heard anything...

Why am I always sleeping when the good posts come around?!

Anyway, I like JF more and more each day. So far he's been the only one to have the guts to address the issue, while the others all sound like a broken record when related questions pop up.

They all say the same thing, they love working with Amanda (which I can believe, of course, she's always come off as a lovely woman to me) and 'I'm sorry, you're mistaken, I never knew someone named Torri Higginson.'

'Rainbow Sun who? No, I'm sorry, I don't even like hippies'

But I'm pretty sure is the atmosphere around the set, the environment, that has changed this season, and Joe is aware of that. I think his opinion about the 'soft reset' changed as soon as he saw the script and the way his character was being twisted to fit tptb's new needs.

AutumnDream
October 14th, 2007, 11:11 PM
Usually I'm one for well-phrased comments and subtlety. But to this;


And they were like, ‘Oh, yeah, that’s a great idea. That’s right, she did die, sentimentality, that’s good, I like that.’

Holy <snip>

parisindy
October 14th, 2007, 11:17 PM
Usually I'm one for well-phrased comments and subtlety. But to this;



Holy <snip>.

:indeed:...

Joe F rocks.... hehe you don't want my opinion of Joe M ;)

Anuna
October 15th, 2007, 01:05 AM
I like the fact that he (JF) understands that "emotional mayhem" drives people off in the long run, and that people get emotionally invested because of a certain character/characters. See that is something that really bugs me about this "it was a creative idea" nonesense. It's not a creative idea. it's aimed to cause ratings skyrocket effect, but I think it will do just the opposite in the long run.

*phew*

I feel anti today!

*drops stinky socks*

Erised
October 15th, 2007, 04:09 AM
1.2! hahaha. It's like for Adrift. I expect Reunion to be worse and overall ratings to drop once the majority realizes they messed with characters. People don't like people messing with characters. Nope they don't.

Southern Red
October 15th, 2007, 04:38 AM
1.2 it's official now!!!
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=7218498#post7218498
LMAO
Let's see how they spin it!

That's an easy one. Eureka also got a 1.2 and has been renewed, so ergo SGA will be renewed. Why, well everyone knows ratings are down across the board, so this season's 1.2 is last season's 1.8. ;)


I like the fact that he (JF) understands that "emotional mayhem" drives people off in the long run, and that people get emotionally invested because of a certain character/characters. See that is something that really bugs me about this "it was a creative idea" nonesense. It's not a creative idea. it's aimed to cause ratings skyrocket effect, but I think it will do just the opposite in the long run.

*phew*

I feel anti today!

*drops stinky socks*


1.2! hahaha. It's like for Adrift. I expect Reunion to be worse and overall ratings to drop once the majority realizes they messed with characters. People don't like people messing with characters. Nope they don't.

Bingo. There may be proof this is true. I read today that viewers of House are not happy with the changes in the new season and are staying away in droves. Another example of taking a formula that works and messing with it. I predict that ratings for Reunion and beyond will plummet.

justhere1971
October 15th, 2007, 04:43 AM
That's an easy one. Eureka also got a 1.2 and has been renewed, so ergo SGA will be renewed. Why, well everyone knows ratings are down across the board, so this season's 1.2 is last season's 1.8. ;)

Bingo. There may be proof this is true. I read today that viewers of House are not happy with the changes in the new season and are staying away in droves. Another example of taking a formula that works and messing with it. I predict that ratings for Reunion and beyond will plummet.

I agree with this. Their gamble is not going to pay off. Carter was only watchable with Jack/Daniel/Teal'c to buffer her -- alone she doesn't stand a chance. Vala has more depth than Carter. Even though I find her "cuteness" rather annoying.

mcbarr
October 15th, 2007, 06:04 AM
1.2 it's official now!!!
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=7218498#post7218498
LMAO
Let's see how they spin it!

The season opener really scored 1.2? Not good. It must have been all those ads and commercials that scared the viewers away. ;)

SGFerrit
October 15th, 2007, 06:39 AM
1.2 it's official now!!!
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=7218498#post7218498
LMAO
Let's see how they spin it!

What the heck are you talking about? It was ALWAYS official. Joe M said so on his blog.

Again, this isn't counting DVR numbers. But that's for another thread. if you want to stay safe here and not have to face the fact that the ratings aren't as bad as you want them to be, fine. if you want to engage in an actual balanced discussion about what is happening with them, then there are now numerous ratings threads. Probably more than needed if you ask me.

Southern Red
October 15th, 2007, 06:42 AM
What the heck are you talking about? It was ALWAYS official. Joe M said so on his blog.

Again, this isn't counting DVR numbers. But that's for another thread. if you want to stay safe here and not have to face the fact that the ratings aren't as bad as you want them to be, fine. if you want to engage in an actual balanced discussion about what is happening with them, then there are now numerous ratings threads. Probably more than needed if you ask me.

For heaven sakes, where do you get the idea that we want a balanced discussion? This is the anti-season 4 thread. We want to talk about what we don't like. :lol:

Briangate78
October 15th, 2007, 06:43 AM
What the heck are you talking about? It was ALWAYS official. Joe M said so on his blog.

Again, this isn't counting DVR numbers. But that's for another thread. if you want to stay safe here and not have to face the fact that the ratings aren't as bad as you want them to be, fine. if you want to engage in an actual balanced discussion about what is happening with them, then there are now numerous ratings threads. Probably more than needed if you ask me.

Yup, its not counting DVR. Which could very well bump SGA to a 1.4 to 1.5 according to Joe M! Here I go again broken record. SGA is one of the top DVR'd shows, on the most DVR'd days, on the most DVR'd time slot. :p

Folks, the ratings have changed for this season, overall "live" ratings are down and it's not loss of viewers, just viewers viewing at different times because they have a DVR box now. DVR is being counted and networks and Advertisers are looking at these numbers as well.

SGFerrit
October 15th, 2007, 06:59 AM
For heaven sakes, where do you get the idea that we want a balanced discussion? This is the anti-season 4 thread. We want to talk about what we don't like. :lol:

Even if it means ignoring facts? Well apparently so...
You all know fine well that the number was 1.2. What were you expecting? For the live ratings to miraculously jump up to a 1.5?

YappiChick
October 15th, 2007, 07:00 AM
You know, the DVR thing is getting old. Fast. Every show has to deal with the "issues" of DVR. Do we see the creators of CSI boo-hooing about it? Or about any other show that is doing well?

No. And I'm sorry. The two million people who watch the show and their "high habit" of DVRing something will never make SGA into something it isn't.

The show has changed. Some people don't like it. That's the bottom line.

Suzotchka
October 15th, 2007, 07:01 AM
This is not a rating's discussion thread. Can we please keep it out of here an in the appropriate thread?

SGFerrit
October 15th, 2007, 07:04 AM
This is not a rating's discussion thread. Can we please keep it out of here an in the appropriate thread?

Apparently not. It seems the 1.2 is brought up at any given oppertunity here.

And @ YappiChick, DVRing is getting worse. Like it or not, say it's 'getting old' as much as you want, it IS being considered. Trying to undermine it isn't going to change that. Sorry!

YappiChick
October 15th, 2007, 07:10 AM
This is not a rating's discussion thread. Can we please keep it out of here an in the appropriate thread?

LOL, oops...sorry :D

*waves stinky sock* I'm better now

ShadowMaat
October 15th, 2007, 07:14 AM
Last time I cruised by here, this was an anti-S4 thread. Not a ratings discussion thread, not a pro-S4 discussion thread and certainly not an "insult the antis" thread. Have things changed or is this just another case of outsiders coming in to piss in our pool again?

There are already enough ratings discussion threads out there that I really don't see the need to hijack ANOTHER one just so folks can sneer down their noses at others and lecture at them about the wide world of ratings.

Me, I think S4 is suffering and I think the fact that there are campaigns at work to try and get the show renewed for another season speaks volumes. More so than any attempts to juggle the numbers to make them say whatever folks want them to say.

SGFerrit
October 15th, 2007, 07:14 AM
Getting worse??? I thought Technolgy was a good thing.

You know what I meant!!;)

The truth is it is damaging shows. Especially on this channel. Eureka's last season average got bumped up by .3 when DVRing was factored in.

I'll stop now. I don't want to annoy Suz anymore. And certainly don't want to annoy Queen Shadow anymore. Bye bye guys!

Skydiver
October 15th, 2007, 07:22 AM
Guys, like has been said, we have a thriving ratings thread. Let's take that discussion there please

justhere1971
October 15th, 2007, 07:22 AM
If you go read DH's blog - even he seems to be unsure about a season 5.

We should know one or another by November is my guess.

Anuna
October 15th, 2007, 07:28 AM
Back to topic. i listened like two hours of squee over new season by a friend who is a die hard SG - 1 fan. Everything was oh soo cool and good and amazing right down to teyla's coat. And when i tried to contradict my mouth was shut by another endless squee session. *headdesk*

What annoyed me the most were the comments about DG and how it is great that this was such a character driven episode. Oh good. WTF? Why there couldn't be an episode like this one earlier so we could get to know these characters better?

But it's so cool we get a brand new spankin season of character development now when my favorite character is gone. Sorry. Not fun for me. *drops ton of stinking socks*

Suzotchka
October 15th, 2007, 07:47 AM
I do have to say this about the ratings (don't kill me!) - but I think a 1.2 is good enough for renewal. And if they do get a S5, I'm going to hope, pray and campaign they bring back Weir. Because without Weir, we're just watching SG-1. :(

YappiChick
October 15th, 2007, 07:50 AM
I do have to say this about the ratings (don't kill me!) - but I think a 1.2 is good enough for renewal. And if they do get a S5, I'm going to hope, pray and campaign they bring back Weir. Because without Weir, we're just watching SG-1. :(

AT's contract is up after this season, right? Makes me wonder what would happen if she didn't renew it...

justhere1971
October 15th, 2007, 07:52 AM
I do have to say this about the ratings (don't kill me!) - but I think a 1.2 is good enough for renewal. And if they do get a S5, I'm going to hope, pray and campaign they bring back Weir. Because without Weir, we're just watching SG-1. :(

I would never kill you, as I have the same hope. And I do think 1.2 is good enough for a renewal.

Briangate78
October 15th, 2007, 07:55 AM
I do have to say this about the ratings (don't kill me!) - but I think a 1.2 is good enough for renewal. And if they do get a S5, I'm going to hope, pray and campaign they bring back Weir. Because without Weir, we're just watching SG-1. :(


I would never kill you, as I have the same hope. And I do think 1.2 is good enough for a renewal.

I agree 1.2 should be good for a renewal based on the overall network ratings. Also, lets hope we can Weir back for a bunch of eps. :)

Suzotchka
October 15th, 2007, 07:56 AM
I just want SGA to be the best show out there. And right now, it's not. They were on the right track but took a really bad detour. The divisions between the fans is huge and it ain't going away any time soon. :(

justhere1971
October 15th, 2007, 07:59 AM
I just want SGA to be the best show out there. And right now, it's not. They were on the right track but took a really bad detour. The divisions between the fans is huge and it ain't going away any time soon. :(

Right. And I know most of us Anti S4 would be happy w/ Weir back, but some would not. Honestly I haven't taken the time to read what the other folks are mad about besides Weir being gone -- so I am not going to assume.
To me besides the craziness, S4 is bad is because one half of my 2 most favorite character is gone. I want S5 with Weir in it.

SMB_BOOKS
October 15th, 2007, 08:26 AM
I want S5 with Weir in it.

AMEN to that. And, if I might be so bold to add....

I want S5 with Weir full-time in it!

:weir:

Anuna
October 15th, 2007, 08:27 AM
AMEN to that. And, if I might be so bold to add....

I want S5 with Weir full-time in it!

:weir:

I third that. She is the heart and soul of the show for me, period.

ToasterOnFire
October 15th, 2007, 08:32 AM
It's driving me nuts, too. It's seriously old. Give it a rest already. Anyone who goes into the ratings or season five thread gets bombarded with "Oh, but the DVR figures will bump 'us' up to a 1.5".
I'll believe it when I see the numbers. At this rate we'll never see the Live + 3 day numbers, outside of what Joe M. tells us. And he can be very vague when he wants to be. ;)


And yes, the show's changed, and PLENTY of people don't like it. I wouldn't be surprised if all the "OMG! Carter's coming to save Atlantis" advertising turned viewers off. They're wanting to watch SGA, not SG1.
IMO, SGA is suffering primarily because it no longer can hide in SG1's shadow. TPTB started off with a interesting spin-off that has become more and more like SG1 over the years. The city is played down, the civilian vs. military aspect is played down (and suffered a major blow with what happened to Weir), the offworld team now gets the main focus like SG1, baddies from the SG1 universe are revisited instead of concentrating on the wraith, etc etc. Maybe some fans lost interest in continuing with something so similar to SG1? Maybe more would have stuck around if SGA stayed fresh and new and interesting instead of feeling like a somewhat neglected stepchild of SG1?

I think that a decent chunk of SGA viewers were fans who primarily liked SG1, had lukewarm feelings toward SGA, but stuck around and watched SGA because it was on after SG1. Now that SG1 has bit the dust, those viewers are far less likely to seek out SGA on its own. And IMO, Carter is not enough to entice those fans (especially if they don't care for the SGA universe or characters in the first place).


AT's contract is up after this season, right? Makes me wonder what would happen if she didn't renew it...
Joe M. has posted several times that they'd love to have Carter back for s5, so I'm pretty confident that the leadership would stay the same and Weir will still be missing/an enemy/worse if they get renewed.

Suzotchka
October 15th, 2007, 08:58 AM
Joe M. has posted several times that they'd love to have Carter back for s5, so I'm pretty confident that the leadership would stay the same and Weir will still be missing/an enemy/worse if they get renewed.

I agree. I have a feeling that TPTB have no intention of bringing Weir back. How they see that there is nothing wrong with the show - is just beyond me.

But you know, I don't give up that easily. Sorry, but I'm a New Yorker and I'm stubborn as all hell.

You know, in a way, what I'd love to see? Have AT say no to coming back, and have TH say no. Then I wonder what they'll do.

ShadowMaat
October 15th, 2007, 09:36 AM
If Atlantis is suffering without SG-1 as a lead-in, that tells me that people aren't watching Atlantis for Atlantis's sake, they're just leaving the TV on after SG-1 ended. Are casual viewers important to the show from a ratings stand-point? Yeah, probably, but the way you make a casual viewer a dedicated viewer is by making the show so good that they get hooked and will follow it wherever it goes and regardless of what's on before (or during) the show. Casual viewers may pad the numbers, but without a dedicated audience, a show is toast.

I don't see Atlantis as being a long-term show. It got off to a good start in season 1, but they quickly dropped the ball by tying Atlantis so irrevocably to SG-1. Yes, they're both set in the same universe and yes, it makes sense that there'd be a certain amount of crossover, but a little goes a long way and that's one lesson TPTB have never learned.

Atlantis has never really been allowed to develop its own voice. It has its moments, of course, but for the most part, as ToF (and countless others) have said, Atlantis has always- and will always be in the shadow of SG-1. The formula, the atmosphere, even some of the plots and characters all borrow heavily from SG-1. Instead of making Atlantis unique, they to the "winning formula" from SG-1 and just copied it. The team make-up is basically the same, as are some of the character types, and the one thing that could have given Atlantis a different spin- civilian leadership- was mostly a joke and never fully explored. Almost from the start, Atlantis was cast into Military Mode. What other reaction could there possibly be to stepping through the gate and inadvertently starting a war? Very few of the missions were pure exploration; the team was always looking for something, whether it was power sources, allies or enemies. I'd like to know why TPTB even bothered pretending that Atlantis was ever going to be anything but another military-oriented action show. They finally gave up that pretense and now they've given up on Weir as well. She was a civilian on a military outpost. What use was that? Not much, from the way TPTB treated her. Whatever platitudes they spew, I doubt that we'll see her much- if ever- again.

One of the biggest enemies Atlantis is facing right now are retreads from an enemy on SG-1. Call them Asurans or call them Replicators, it's hard not to notice the heavy similarities in appearance and action. If Atlantis is so great and original, how come they don't have a unique enemy of their own? There's always the Wraith, but the show seems to be moving away from them in favor of the Asurans. Safer ground for the writers, perhaps, but what about the audience?

Personally I'm sick of all the copying, the borrowing, the cannibalizing, and the other desperate efforts made to shove SG-1 stuff into another galaxy. It's been said before and it'll be said many times again: I want to watch Atlantis, not SG-1. Although at this rate it may become a moot point; there are already campaigns underway to try and "save" Atlantis. Even the dedicated fandom has lost enough confidence in the show (or in SCIFI as they will undoubtedly argue) that they feel these tactics are necessary. Everyone is begging everyone else to watch the show live (even though as far as I know it's still only Nielsen families who count and they know better than anyone the importance of live viewing) and fights break out every time "DVR" is mentioned. :rolleyes:

These are sad days for Stargate Atlantis, and while there's always enough blame to go around, I still say that most of it rests on the shoulders of TPTB. With all the stunts they've pulled over the past four seasons, from killing off beloved characters to bringing in fresh blood and familiar faces to changing enemies and uniforms every chance they get, to hoping that Reuse and Recycle means Renew(al), their tactics don't seem to be working.

Sure, there's still a deeply loyal contingent who will watch the show no matter what, but you can't count on people like that to be the majority, you have to make the show appealing to a wider audience. And dressing the team in leather is NOT the right way to make the show appealing. :rolleyes:

I'd say that TPTB need to concentrate on telling good stories and developing good characters (contrary to popular belief the universe doesn't revolve around Sheppard and McKay) but after all this time I sincerely doubt they're about to change their stripes and focus on what's important rather than what they like best. Atlantis is doomed. The only question is how long it will take to finish dying.

SGFerrit
October 15th, 2007, 10:02 AM
there are already campaigns underway to try and "save" Atlantis. Even the dedicated fandom has lost enough confidence in the show (or in SCIFI as they will undoubtedly argue) that they feel these tactics are necessary.

Can I just say, I do actually think the 'Save Atlantis' stuff would stem more from the worry of it being cancelled due to ratings i.e SciFi, as opposed to seeing these apparent problems with the show that you keep going on about. If these problems were widely recognised, I doubt there would be so many pros, or I at least doubt there would be many trying to 'save the show'. Like it or not, it has nothing to do with probelms with writing/quality to them. Don't try to undermine this with your "(or in SCIFI as they will undoubtedly argue)" please.

(And before you start attacking me for being here, don't write stuff about pro people and not expect them to defend themselves if they disagree)

Pegasus_SGA
October 15th, 2007, 10:08 AM
You write fic, Skydiver? It's so bad for me, but I can't resist the pull, lol. I get your point though. I can hate what I write and think it's rubbish and post it anyway on the off chance someone will like it. But that's a totally different scale to what JM deals with. I can understand the pressures on him without approving of his decisions, though.



I saw Joe Flanigan on the weekend [lol, like it's so casual, it happens all the time, yeah...] and he made some interesting comments when I asked if he thought that the producers were trying to make Atlantis more like Stargate, what with Amanda coming over:


"He [Chris] also has a guest spot but that’s about it. The truth is that there are overlapping reality, SG-1 and Atlantis, we have a similar landscape that we all live in. We go through the Stargate and everything else. It’s not unreasonable that they would show up occasionally. But I’m the one who voiced a slight concern about bringing over too many characters from SG-1 before you lose your identity as the show. I think with Amanda, it pretty much stays there and occasionally, Michael or Chris will come on, but I don’t think you’re going to see too much more of that, so I think you’re ok. And it’s weird, because they’re really popular characters, people want to see them. And you have to be careful, you know, that you’re staying true to your show."

I think Joe's in tune with what the fans want. I like that he voices the opinion that 'hey, guys? Uh, this is SGA, not SG-1. If you've gotta bring Amanda over, whatever, but don't dilute our individuality anymore than that, 'kay?' Otherwise this isn't *our* show anymore.



Oh, god, I love Joe so much. No one even brought up Torri's name, or Elizabeth, they asked about his desire to have a combative relationship between Shep and Carter, and he goes on a tangent that reflects a lot of the problems I had with s4 and the reason that I'm anti:


“"I miss Torri…it’s a tough position for everybody to be in. Because we all like Torri and we all like Amanda and we’re not producers, we’re just actors, we just tend to be enjoying ourselves and we’re mercifully spared of all that political junk.

So it was a slightly awkward thing to do and I have to say, it was interesting because we’d be shooting the first episodes with Amanda in it, and they said, “We just went right over the fact that Torri had died- WHOOM and we’re onto the next thing and I’m like, ‘Don’t you think we should kind of just stop for a minute and say, ‘Ohhh, I miss…I miss Dr Weir…? Now let’s go do something.’ And they were like, ‘Oh, yeah, that’s a great idea. That’s right, she did die, sentimentality, that’s good, I like that.’ The fact that we have to remind them sometimes shows how far they are down the road.

But this is science fiction, as you know, she could be back anytime, anyway, anyhow. And so she could- it could be Torri Higginson playing Colonel John Sheppard next season…”

The part in bold just made me laugh!

I also asked what his thoughts were on TPTB writing out all these characters, because that's the HUGEST problem that I have with SGA:

"Why are they killing people off? That is a question best addressed to the producers. I am a fierce guardian of the actors. I love my actors and I defend them all the time and I will go to town on the producers and writers for the actors all the time which makes me a bit of a thorn in their side. But I’m okay with that. That’s kind of the character I play anyways, right? And so I am no longer privy to the inner workings of their thought process. I think initially they wanted to include me in all this and then they realized I was uncomfortable with their thought process. I, for example, was really upset when they got rid of Paul and they told me after they had done it. I think if they had told me beforehand, maybe I could have altered the circumstances a little bit.

And you know, it’s an interesting thing when you’re an actor, there is sometimes friction between producers and actors in terms of who has power and leverage, and this takes place on a lot of shows, and a lot less on our show, our show is not so much like this really. There will be an act sometimes to show who’s in charge. More importantly, there is a fictional reality, if there is such a term, there is a reality of our fictional universe which is that characters come and go and characters die and you’ll notice that the networks are pressuring the shows constantly to raise the stakes, kill characters. They want the audience to invest in characters and then kill them off. They want to create as much emotional mayhem as they can with the audience because they believe that is what attaches people to the show.

I think it’s pretty short-lived, you know, with Paul for example, I said ‘We’re going to kill him, we may get a short spike in the ratings but it’ll go back down. I don’t think we’re going to benefit at all from this type of thing.’ The audience is the opposite, they invest in a character, they want to see them...So...I’m just one voice. I don’t know what else to say about that. I’m still here!"

That is EXACTLY what I and a lot of other people have been saying here, Parisindy, remember that conversation about 'emotional investments'? He totally gets us. And it's a shame that the producers don't let him in on their decisions anymore, because if he had more leverage, the show would be so much better and I wouldn't have to be anti since he wouldn't let anyone go! I just don't know how he can make so much sense and the people in charge don't get what he's saying.



Seriously, are they out yet? People have been talking about them for ages and yet I haven't heard anything...
Thanks for the interesting info hon, it's very much appreciated. :D Sounds like you had a great time. :D

mcbarr
October 15th, 2007, 10:11 AM
The only question is how long it will take to finish dying.

IMHO, Sci Fi is waiting SGA hit bottom in terms of ratings (0.x) to pull the plug on the show with authority.

*remembers UPN/Enterprise days*

Fionnait
October 15th, 2007, 10:26 AM
I saw Joe Flanigan on the weekend [lol, like it's so casual, it happens all the time, yeah...] and he made some interesting comments when I asked if he thought that the producers were trying to make Atlantis more like Stargate, what with Amanda coming over:


"He [Chris] also has a guest spot but that’s about it. The truth is that there are overlapping reality, SG-1 and Atlantis, we have a similar landscape that we all live in. We go through the Stargate and everything else. It’s not unreasonable that they would show up occasionally. But I’m the one who voiced a slight concern about bringing over too many characters from SG-1 before you lose your identity as the show. I think with Amanda, it pretty much stays there and occasionally, Michael or Chris will come on, but I don’t think you’re going to see too much more of that, so I think you’re ok. And it’s weird, because they’re really popular characters, people want to see them. And you have to be careful, you know, that you’re staying true to your show."

I think Joe's in tune with what the fans want. I like that he voices the opinion that 'hey, guys? Uh, this is SGA, not SG-1. If you've gotta bring Amanda over, whatever, but don't dilute our individuality anymore than that, 'kay?' Otherwise this isn't *our* show anymore.



Oh, god, I love Joe so much. No one even brought up Torri's name, or Elizabeth, they asked about his desire to have a combative relationship between Shep and Carter, and he goes on a tangent that reflects a lot of the problems I had with s4 and the reason that I'm anti:


“"I miss Torri…it’s a tough position for everybody to be in. Because we all like Torri and we all like Amanda and we’re not producers, we’re just actors, we just tend to be enjoying ourselves and we’re mercifully spared of all that political junk.

So it was a slightly awkward thing to do and I have to say, it was interesting because we’d be shooting the first episodes with Amanda in it, and they said, “We just went right over the fact that Torri had died- WHOOM and we’re onto the next thing and I’m like, ‘Don’t you think we should kind of just stop for a minute and say, ‘Ohhh, I miss…I miss Dr Weir…? Now let’s go do something.’ And they were like, ‘Oh, yeah, that’s a great idea. That’s right, she did die, sentimentality, that’s good, I like that.’ The fact that we have to remind them sometimes shows how far they are down the road.

But this is science fiction, as you know, she could be back anytime, anyway, anyhow. And so she could- it could be Torri Higginson playing Colonel John Sheppard next season…”

The part in bold just made me laugh!

I also asked what his thoughts were on TPTB writing out all these characters, because that's the HUGEST problem that I have with SGA:

"Why are they killing people off? That is a question best addressed to the producers. I am a fierce guardian of the actors. I love my actors and I defend them all the time and I will go to town on the producers and writers for the actors all the time which makes me a bit of a thorn in their side. But I’m okay with that. That’s kind of the character I play anyways, right? And so I am no longer privy to the inner workings of their thought process. I think initially they wanted to include me in all this and then they realized I was uncomfortable with their thought process. I, for example, was really upset when they got rid of Paul and they told me after they had done it. I think if they had told me beforehand, maybe I could have altered the circumstances a little bit.

And you know, it’s an interesting thing when you’re an actor, there is sometimes friction between producers and actors in terms of who has power and leverage, and this takes place on a lot of shows, and a lot less on our show, our show is not so much like this really. There will be an act sometimes to show who’s in charge. More importantly, there is a fictional reality, if there is such a term, there is a reality of our fictional universe which is that characters come and go and characters die and you’ll notice that the networks are pressuring the shows constantly to raise the stakes, kill characters. They want the audience to invest in characters and then kill them off. They want to create as much emotional mayhem as they can with the audience because they believe that is what attaches people to the show.

I think it’s pretty short-lived, you know, with Paul for example, I said ‘We’re going to kill him, we may get a short spike in the ratings but it’ll go back down. I don’t think we’re going to benefit at all from this type of thing.’ The audience is the opposite, they invest in a character, they want to see them...So...I’m just one voice. I don’t know what else to say about that. I’m still here!"

That is EXACTLY what I and a lot of other people have been saying here, Parisindy, remember that conversation about 'emotional investments'? He totally gets us. And it's a shame that the producers don't let him in on their decisions anymore, because if he had more leverage, the show would be so much better and I wouldn't have to be anti since he wouldn't let anyone go! I just don't know how he can make so much sense and the people in charge don't get what he's saying.



Seriously, are they out yet? People have been talking about them for ages and yet I haven't heard anything...

Wow!! I think I just turned into a dedicated JF fan. Oh crap, that means his character will be killed next, they always kill off my favourites!


I don't think Joe M. is really interested in bringing back Weir, to be honest. But if JF was in charge we would definitely see skateboarding in Atlantis. :D :D

Skateboarding? *lol* Did I miss something?


I read today that movie makers use a computer model to test ideas. Dear God, help us if SciFi does this. Plug in the supposed demographic and spew out the old opinions. LOL.

If it's as grant as the DNA computer model in Conversion, that explains a lot...


I want a show with BOTH Joe & Torri where they exploit their awesome on-screen chemistry. We could come up with all kinds of scenarios. :)

Sadly, if we come up with scenarios almost no-one could watch the show, it would be NC-90 or something :P


I third that. She is the heart and soul of the show for me, period.

I quadruple this!

Anuna
October 15th, 2007, 10:52 AM
I can only bend with laughter at DNA comment. Because I know exactly what it means coming from you, Fionnait!!!

MightiMidget
October 15th, 2007, 10:55 AM
My biggest misgiving is the fate of Weir. I do not want to see her get the Ford treatment.

Yeah. I agree to that, especially since Beckett's gone it would be a major bummer if they kept bumping MCs...<_<

ShadowMaat
October 15th, 2007, 11:36 AM
Can I just say, I do actually think the 'Save Atlantis' stuff would stem more from the worry of it being cancelled due to ratings i.e SciFi, as opposed to seeing these apparent problems with the show that you keep going on about.
Obviously it's due to the low ratings. And I took up quite a bit of space explaining why I think it's getting low ratings. Popular shows don't have to worry about low ratings because they're good enough to keep the audience interested and thus earn good ratings. If a show isn't pulling good numbers- particularly if it used to pull good numbers- that tells me that there's something about the show that is turning people off. If people are bored, they stop watching. If they stop watching, the numbers drop. It's that simple. Tack on as many "outside factors" as you want, but I say again, if people think a show is good enough then the "outside factors" won't make much difference because they're going to watch it anyway.

Incidentally, if dedicated fans saw and/or agreed about any of the problems I listed, they probably wouldn't be "dedicated fans" and they certainly wouldn't have any interest in trying to save the show.

ToasterOnFire
October 15th, 2007, 11:40 AM
Skateboarding? *lol* Did I miss something?
JF appears to be an avid skateboarder in real life. I remember that one special where he took a camera, angled it at the bottom of his board to let people see where he was going, and took off. "That's what it's like to ride on my board!" Hee. :D

Those behind the gate specials were quite fun and really personalized the cast and crew - too bad they don't do those anymore. :(


IMHO, Sci Fi is waiting SGA hit bottom in terms of ratings (0.x) to pull the plug on the show with authority.
I think there's a chance the show could get renewed because the ratings for everything else stink or because skiffy want to keep some sort of franchise going after BSG and they've got nothing else. It's not exactly the most glowing praise for SGA, is it? "Hey SGA, you've been sinking for a while but we've got nothing else that's good so there you go." :S

ShadowMaat
October 15th, 2007, 11:45 AM
I think there's a chance the show could get renewed because the ratings for everything else stink or because skiffy want to keep some sort of franchise going after BSG and they've got nothing else. It's not exactly the most glowing praise for SGA, is it? "Hey SGA, you've been sinking for a while but we've got nothing else that's good so there you go." :S

Yup, that's pretty much what I figure. If SGA gets renewed, it won't be because it's a fantastic show with stellar ratings, it'll be because they have nothing better to use. And it certainly won't be because of any fan campaign. :rolleyes:

Of course, Skiffy having nothing good has never stopped them from airing stuff before, but that probably just underlines the possibility of renewal. ;)

mcbarr
October 15th, 2007, 12:03 PM
I think there's a chance the show could get renewed because the ratings for everything else stink or because skiffy want to keep some sort of franchise going after BSG and they've got nothing else. It's not exactly the most glowing praise for SGA, is it? "Hey SGA, you've been sinking for a while but we've got nothing else that's good so there you go." :S

Well, Skiffy could always cancel SGA and give BSG that fifth season, eh? I wouldn't complain. Better writing. No SG-1 relics. :D

Erised
October 15th, 2007, 12:10 PM
Me, I think S4 is suffering and I think the fact that there are campaigns at work to try and get the show renewed for another season speaks volumes. More so than any attempts to juggle the numbers to make them say whatever folks want them to say.

WORD. I don't remember anything that worked with these campaigns. Actually every petition people make seems to do just the opposite. Beckett got killed, Weir.. unknown but she's been written off. I don't know if there was one for Ford but I can see he's been completely forgotten too.

Save SG-1 campaign didn't work either, LOL. So people, keep campaigning ;)


Alyssa, do you have a link to that Flanigan con? I want to read what he said :)


Not sure about this Weir coming back thing The Mortal Coil has Torri in it and the word "mortal" and "Elizabeth" can only mean one thing I think. But of course TPTB will come up with another excuse that no one ever dies in sci fi, as if "Oh it's ok if we make a mistake and piss everyone off. No one dies in sci fi! We could always fix this!"

ToasterOnFire, I agree that right now SGA is suffering in the shadow of SG-1 now but it didn't used to. How awesome was season 1? I've said it before... that contact with Earth is the point when this show started going bad.

I was never really a big fan of SG-1. I was for a brief moment but I was crazy about SGA. It was a separate show and now it's not. Shouldn't it be the opposite? Like a child who starts off dependent and grows up to be independent? My guess is TPTB really wanted Atlantis to succeed and after it did, they went ahead and made whatever they wanted it to be.


No fan tells fellow fan to go watch Lost or Heroes live for ratings. Those shows are made of awesome because TPTB know what they're doing. I don't think they even do that for BSG but the BSG rating drop can be blamed on the disapperance of SciFi Friday. SG-1 and SGA's can too but I don't see that much hatred towards BSG.


The only SG-1 cross over I could have handled is Daniel going to Atlantis. Never Carter.

FoolishPleasure
October 15th, 2007, 12:20 PM
Well, Skiffy could always cancel SGA and give BSG that fifth season, eh? I wouldn't complain. Better writing. No SG-1 relics. :D

But BSG probably already has a 5th season! Skiffy wants to take their 20 episode season 4 and show 10 episodes in 2008 and 10 episodes in 2009. Genius! :S

As for renewing SGA, Skiffy doesn't "own" the show - its the same problem with SG1 being too expensive to produce. The profits for Skiffy just weren't there and they wanted to switch to their own original programming. Now we have the wonders of Trash Gordon, Painful-to-Watch Jane, and Who Wants 2B a Super-Dooper-Pooper Hero. As bad as these shows are, they make more dough for Skiffy than SG1 or SGA ever will.

mcbarr
October 15th, 2007, 12:35 PM
...but the BSG rating drop can be blamed on the disapperance of SciFi Friday.

Skiffy could still be airing SGA and BSG on Fridays, but Skiffy is Skiffy. :rolleyes:


But BSG probably already has a 5th season! Skiffy wants to take their 20 episode season 4 and show 10 episodes in 2008 and 10 episodes in 2009. Genius! :S

That's true! Forgot about that. Caprica? Farscape? :D

FoolishPleasure
October 15th, 2007, 12:38 PM
That's true! Forgot about that. Caprica? Farscape? :D

Caprica is still sitting on the "development" shelf at Skiffy. Either its too expensive, or the producers are refusing to have their leading ladies fighting in leather thongs. ;)

Romy
October 15th, 2007, 02:12 PM
AT's contract is up after this season, right? Makes me wonder what would happen if she didn't renew it...


check this out.

In fact, if the show continues to do well, the actress said she would like to be back again in the fifth season.


Here's the link I got this information from. http://www.syfyportal.com/pagetogether.php?id=4205&page=2

YappiChick
October 15th, 2007, 02:23 PM
check this out.

In fact, if the show continues to do well, the actress said she would like to be back again in the fifth season.


Here's the link I got this information from. http://www.syfyportal.com/pagetogether.php?id=4205&page=2

Thanks... :D

mcbarr
October 15th, 2007, 02:33 PM
check this out.

In fact, if the show continues to do well, the actress said she would like to be back again in the fifth season.


Here's the link I got this information from. http://www.syfyportal.com/pagetogether.php?id=4205&page=2

Let's hope it continues to do not so well then. ;)

parisindy
October 15th, 2007, 03:58 PM
Yup, its not counting DVR. Which could very well bump SGA to a 1.4 to 1.5 according to Joe M! Here I go again broken record. SGA is one of the top DVR'd shows, on the most DVR'd days, on the most DVR'd time slot. :p

Folks, the ratings have changed for this season, overall "live" ratings are down and it's not loss of viewers, just viewers viewing at different times because they have a DVR box now. DVR is being counted and networks and Advertisers are looking at these numbers as well.


spin it all you want its still a crap show that even if it doesn't get canceled i hope it does
the Atlantis i loved has already been canceled


You know, the DVR thing is getting old. Fast. Every show has to deal with the "issues" of DVR. Do we see the creators of CSI boo-hooing about it? Or about any other show that is doing well?

No. And I'm sorry. The two million people who watch the show and their "high habit" of DVRing something will never make SGA into something it isn't.

The show has changed. Some people don't like it. That's the bottom line.


freaking excellent post!

parisindy
October 15th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Last time I cruised by here, this was an anti-S4 thread. Not a ratings discussion thread, not a pro-S4 discussion thread and certainly not an "insult the antis" thread. Have things changed or is this just another case of outsiders coming in to piss in our pool again?

There are already enough ratings discussion threads out there that I really don't see the need to hijack ANOTHER one just so folks can sneer down their noses at others and lecture at them about the wide world of ratings.

Me, I think S4 is suffering and I think the fact that there are campaigns at work to try and get the show renewed for another season speaks volumes. More so than any attempts to juggle the numbers to make them say whatever folks want them to say.

((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))

parisindy
October 15th, 2007, 04:13 PM
If Atlantis is suffering without SG-1 as a lead-in, that tells me that people aren't watching Atlantis for Atlantis's sake, they're just leaving the TV on after SG-1 ended. Are casual viewers important to the show from a ratings stand-point? Yeah, probably, but the way you make a casual viewer a dedicated viewer is by making the show so good that they get hooked and will follow it wherever it goes and regardless of what's on before (or during) the show. Casual viewers may pad the numbers, but without a dedicated audience, a show is toast.

I don't see Atlantis as being a long-term show. It got off to a good start in season 1, but they quickly dropped the ball by tying Atlantis so irrevocably to SG-1. Yes, they're both set in the same universe and yes, it makes sense that there'd be a certain amount of crossover, but a little goes a long way and that's one lesson TPTB have never learned.

Atlantis has never really been allowed to develop its own voice. It has its moments, of course, but for the most part, as ToF (and countless others) have said, Atlantis has always- and will always be in the shadow of SG-1. The formula, the atmosphere, even some of the plots and characters all borrow heavily from SG-1. Instead of making Atlantis unique, they to the "winning formula" from SG-1 and just copied it. The team make-up is basically the same, as are some of the character types, and the one thing that could have given Atlantis a different spin- civilian leadership- was mostly a joke and never fully explored. Almost from the start, Atlantis was cast into Military Mode. What other reaction could there possibly be to stepping through the gate and inadvertently starting a war? Very few of the missions were pure exploration; the team was always looking for something, whether it was power sources, allies or enemies. I'd like to know why TPTB even bothered pretending that Atlantis was ever going to be anything but another military-oriented action show. They finally gave up that pretense and now they've given up on Weir as well. She was a civilian on a military outpost. What use was that? Not much, from the way TPTB treated her. Whatever platitudes they spew, I doubt that we'll see her much- if ever- again.

One of the biggest enemies Atlantis is facing right now are retreads from an enemy on SG-1. Call them Asurans or call them Replicators, it's hard not to notice the heavy similarities in appearance and action. If Atlantis is so great and original, how come they don't have a unique enemy of their own? There's always the Wraith, but the show seems to be moving away from them in favor of the Asurans. Safer ground for the writers, perhaps, but what about the audience?

Personally I'm sick of all the copying, the borrowing, the cannibalizing, and the other desperate efforts made to shove SG-1 stuff into another galaxy. It's been said before and it'll be said many times again: I want to watch Atlantis, not SG-1. Although at this rate it may become a moot point; there are already campaigns underway to try and "save" Atlantis. Even the dedicated fandom has lost enough confidence in the show (or in SCIFI as they will undoubtedly argue) that they feel these tactics are necessary. Everyone is begging everyone else to watch the show live (even though as far as I know it's still only Nielsen families who count and they know better than anyone the importance of live viewing) and fights break out every time "DVR" is mentioned. :rolleyes:

These are sad days for Stargate Atlantis, and while there's always enough blame to go around, I still say that most of it rests on the shoulders of TPTB. With all the stunts they've pulled over the past four seasons, from killing off beloved characters to bringing in fresh blood and familiar faces to changing enemies and uniforms every chance they get, to hoping that Reuse and Recycle means Renew(al), their tactics don't seem to be working.

Sure, there's still a deeply loyal contingent who will watch the show no matter what, but you can't count on people like that to be the majority, you have to make the show appealing to a wider audience. And dressing the team in leather is NOT the right way to make the show appealing. :rolleyes:

I'd say that TPTB need to concentrate on telling good stories and developing good characters (contrary to popular belief the universe doesn't revolve around Sheppard and McKay) but after all this time I sincerely doubt they're about to change their stripes and focus on what's important rather than what they like best. Atlantis is doomed. The only question is how long it will take to finish dying.

ShadowMaat have i ever told you that you are my hero !?

silkie
October 15th, 2007, 08:00 PM
I agree. I have a feeling that TPTB have no intention of bringing Weir back. How they see that there is nothing wrong with the show - is just beyond me.

But you know, I don't give up that easily. Sorry, but I'm a New Yorker and I'm stubborn as all hell.

You know, in a way, what I'd love to see? Have AT say no to coming back, and have TH say no. Then I wonder what they'll do.

Than I guess the next leader of Atlantis would be


:vala:

:D
TPTB's love for SG-1 is Unending :D

Irish Eyes
October 15th, 2007, 08:20 PM
Atlantis has never really been allowed to develop its own voice. It has its moments, of course, but for the most part, as ToF (and countless others) have said, Atlantis has always- and will always be in the shadow of SG-1. The formula, the atmosphere, even some of the plots and characters all borrow heavily from SG-1. Instead of making Atlantis unique, they to the "winning formula" from SG-1 and just copied it. The team make-up is basically the same, as are some of the character types, and the one thing that could have given Atlantis a different spin- civilian leadership- was mostly a joke and never fully explored. Almost from the start, Atlantis was cast into Military Mode. What other reaction could there possibly be to stepping through the gate and inadvertently starting a war? Very few of the missions were pure exploration; the team was always looking for something, whether it was power sources, allies or enemies. I'd like to know why TPTB even bothered pretending that Atlantis was ever going to be anything but another military-oriented action show. They finally gave up that pretense and now they've given up on Weir as well. She was a civilian on a military outpost. What use was that? Not much, from the way TPTB treated her. Whatever platitudes they spew, I doubt that we'll see her much- if ever- again.


ITA with this. What I liked about the premise of Atlantis was:

1. It's about an expedition, not just the team.
2. Hey, it's the lost city of Atlantis! Let's explore it!
3. We're on our own with no one to help us but ourselves.
4. One of my favorite characters ever in Elizabeth Weir.

After looking at this list, it's no wonder I don't recognize the show.


I agree. I have a feeling that TPTB have no intention of bringing Weir back. How they see that there is nothing wrong with the show - is just beyond me.

But you know, I don't give up that easily. Sorry, but I'm a New Yorker and I'm stubborn as all hell.

You know, in a way, what I'd love to see? Have AT say no to coming back, and have TH say no. Then I wonder what they'll do.

Suz, me and my Iowa stubbornness are right there with you! :)

borgprincess
October 15th, 2007, 10:08 PM
Oh, so many good posts, so little time to go through them all.


He has enough of a brain to get the audience and the way the audience thinks, which I think is sadly lacking among tptb. I think they sit in their ivory tower too much, and don't get a real feel for what's going on out there. JF has done conventions. He knows how the fans feel about Paul and Torri.

I'm amazed that he's the only one who's come out and said that they miss them. The rest of them seem to be saying nothing for some reason. Maybe they're worried they'll be the next one to be offed if they say something!

I think that is exactly the case. JF has a little more job security than the rest of them, but it's like Lost or Heroes at this point, anyone could go right now. Joe is in the best position to actually say something, though I think he recognizes it's him on his own, I’m just one voice. I don’t know what else to say about that. I’m still here!'

It's great that though he doesn't have any other support, he's still putting his opinion out to the fans. Because he knows that they won't easily get rid of him. *crosses fingers* Whereas all the others are fair game for TPTB. We won't recognize any of the cast soon enough, they'll all be rotated every other ep.




JF was the one that made the statement that if he knew about Paul before hand it might not have turned out the way it did.


JT what would the icon say. "JF silent Torri and Paul supporter".

"JF for ptb".

"JF he knows what we want"

Or the obvious "JF is HOT". LOL.

He mentioned Paul only, though, not Torri, which concerns me. I mean, he's obviously supporting her and against the fact that she was ditched, but he used Paul as an example, that he would have tried to do something about it. I guess with Torri, she was coming back anyway, they knew she had the four eps, whereas with Paul, all they knew was that he died so I suppose Joe was more upset about that at the time.

I just wish someone would say whether there was a snowball's chance in hell that Torri might be back s5. Because I am so gloomy about s4 atm. There isn't much to hold my interest anymore, you know? JF is awesome, but I'm at the point where I think I might just wait for the dvd, I'm not inspired to d/l it every week and I'm just afraid to like the show b/c it feels like it's going to break my heart with each new ep.

Oh, and btw- the icon shouldn't say 'silent Torri and Paul supporter'- he's anything BUT silent on that issue!

'JF for PTB'! Excellent!

Hmm, 'JF knows what women want'...? ;)


:D can you imagine? Skateboarding past Weir's office LMAO ... she'd so kick his @ss for that and then make him pay.

Ha, I have that visual in my head now...quick, someone, write me fic, lol!


OMG were you interviewing him for something or was this at a panel or something?

i've said it before and i'll say it again... I love joe

have i mentioned that i love joe?

Ha, I WISH I could interview him one-on-one, but nooo, just got lucky with the microphone at the expo! And you know, I was pretty chilled out at first, I was calm and collected, 'Joe Flanigan, meh, I am sooo not giddy and unco over him, not at all'- then when he spoke and was so honest and answered our questions thoroughly and mentioned 'I miss Torri'...that was awesome. It's human. None of this 'it was good for the show' rubbish that's been spouted by people.

Vale_Sg1
October 15th, 2007, 10:34 PM
Than I guess the next leader of Atlantis would be


:vala:

:D
TPTB's love for SG-1 is Unending :D

OMG give me season 5 NOW!!! :P

With her fascination for, hm, shiny things we could actually see some city exploration.

But well, she's a brunette. Maybe JM could dig out the 'John Quixote' wig for her to wear?

/joke

dana
October 15th, 2007, 11:23 PM
check this out.

In fact, if the show continues to do well, the actress said she would like to be back again in the fifth season.


Here's the link I got this information from. http://www.syfyportal.com/pagetogether.php?id=4205&page=2

*groan*

Pajus
October 16th, 2007, 12:44 AM
SGA always had plenty of great characters. IMHO, the rating drop occured because the writers didn't develop all those wonderful characters and filled every episode with 25 to 30 minutes of the "Rodney and John ranting/whining parade". Even if they start doing things differently now, the damage has already been done. Even if there is a Season 5, there will be no Season 6, because the 'occasional fans' are too disgusted with the show already

Anuna
October 16th, 2007, 01:29 AM
@Borgprincess - you want a fic? I'll write you one. Do you give me open hands with that skateboard? *evil grin*

justhere1971
October 16th, 2007, 03:53 AM
@Borgprincess - you want a fic? I'll write you one. Do you give me open hands with that skateboard? *evil grin*

Ummmm... I am not borg, but could we please have a really pr0ny one? :D :D :D

Anuna
October 16th, 2007, 04:44 AM
Ummmm... I am not borg, but could we please have a really pr0ny one? :D :D :D

Gosh woman! Don't say that word out loud! Not here! Of course you'll get one :P

Back to being anti... one friend just told me she had a nightmare about me turning pro. Never gonna happen - unless Elizabeth is back and stories start making sense. and bit of my ship wouldn't hurt me as well.

Celcool
October 16th, 2007, 05:33 AM
JM doubts himself, as can be observed by his blog. You can see he's worrying about losing his job. <--(I think FP said that one in her LJ..not sure).
Every negative comment is followed by "Why don't you watch all of season 4?"
Remember when he actually begged people to watch it? It was on a video on the official site. That was hilarious. Which show runner does THAT? A desperate one. He does that plus insults the fans, perfect strategy for better ratings! LOL It paid off, didn't it? haha



I saw Joe Flanigan on the weekend [lol, like it's so casual, it happens all the time, yeah...] and he made some interesting comments when I asked if he thought that the producers were trying to make Atlantis more like Stargate, what with Amanda coming over:


"He [Chris] also has a guest spot but that’s about it. The truth is that there are overlapping reality, SG-1 and Atlantis, we have a similar landscape that we all live in. We go through the Stargate and everything else. It’s not unreasonable that they would show up occasionally. But I’m the one who voiced a slight concern about bringing over too many characters from SG-1 before you lose your identity as the show. I think with Amanda, it pretty much stays there and occasionally, Michael or Chris will come on, but I don’t think you’re going to see too much more of that, so I think you’re ok. And it’s weird, because they’re really popular characters, people want to see them. And you have to be careful, you know, that you’re staying true to your show."

I think Joe's in tune with what the fans want. I like that he voices the opinion that 'hey, guys? Uh, this is SGA, not SG-1. If you've gotta bring Amanda over, whatever, but don't dilute our individuality anymore than that, 'kay?' Otherwise this isn't *our* show anymore.



Oh, god, I love Joe so much. No one even brought up Torri's name, or Elizabeth, they asked about his desire to have a combative relationship between Shep and Carter, and he goes on a tangent that reflects a lot of the problems I had with s4 and the reason that I'm anti:


“"I miss Torri…it’s a tough position for everybody to be in. Because we all like Torri and we all like Amanda and we’re not producers, we’re just actors, we just tend to be enjoying ourselves and we’re mercifully spared of all that political junk.

So it was a slightly awkward thing to do and I have to say, it was interesting because we’d be shooting the first episodes with Amanda in it, and they said, “We just went right over the fact that Torri had died- WHOOM and we’re onto the next thing and I’m like, ‘Don’t you think we should kind of just stop for a minute and say, ‘Ohhh, I miss…I miss Dr Weir…? Now let’s go do something.’ And they were like, ‘Oh, yeah, that’s a great idea. That’s right, she did die, sentimentality, that’s good, I like that.’ The fact that we have to remind them sometimes shows how far they are down the road.

But this is science fiction, as you know, she could be back anytime, anyway, anyhow. And so she could- it could be Torri Higginson playing Colonel John Sheppard next season…”

The part in bold just made me laugh!

I also asked what his thoughts were on TPTB writing out all these characters, because that's the HUGEST problem that I have with SGA:

"Why are they killing people off? That is a question best addressed to the producers. I am a fierce guardian of the actors. I love my actors and I defend them all the time and I will go to town on the producers and writers for the actors all the time which makes me a bit of a thorn in their side. But I’m okay with that. That’s kind of the character I play anyways, right? And so I am no longer privy to the inner workings of their thought process. I think initially they wanted to include me in all this and then they realized I was uncomfortable with their thought process. I, for example, was really upset when they got rid of Paul and they told me after they had done it. I think if they had told me beforehand, maybe I could have altered the circumstances a little bit.

And you know, it’s an interesting thing when you’re an actor, there is sometimes friction between producers and actors in terms of who has power and leverage, and this takes place on a lot of shows, and a lot less on our show, our show is not so much like this really. There will be an act sometimes to show who’s in charge. More importantly, there is a fictional reality, if there is such a term, there is a reality of our fictional universe which is that characters come and go and characters die and you’ll notice that the networks are pressuring the shows constantly to raise the stakes, kill characters. They want the audience to invest in characters and then kill them off. They want to create as much emotional mayhem as they can with the audience because they believe that is what attaches people to the show.

I think it’s pretty short-lived, you know, with Paul for example, I said ‘We’re going to kill him, we may get a short spike in the ratings but it’ll go back down. I don’t think we’re going to benefit at all from this type of thing.’ The audience is the opposite, they invest in a character, they want to see them...So...I’m just one voice. I don’t know what else to say about that. I’m still here!"

That is EXACTLY what I and a lot of other people have been saying here, Parisindy, remember that conversation about 'emotional investments'? He totally gets us. And it's a shame that the producers don't let him in on their decisions anymore, because if he had more leverage, the show would be so much better and I wouldn't have to be anti since he wouldn't let anyone go! I just don't know how he can make so much sense and the people in charge don't get what he's saying.

Thanks for the report! He gets us, the antis, he's one of us. :) He should be given the title of the mentor of our ANTI thread or the leader or the celebrity representer or something similar. :sheppard:

Anuna
October 16th, 2007, 05:38 AM
Honorable member? :sheppard:

Celcool
October 16th, 2007, 05:43 AM
Or that, Anuna! :)

Reefgirl
October 16th, 2007, 05:44 AM
Remember when he actually begged people to watch it? It was on a video on the official site. That was hilarious. Which show runner does THAT? A desperate one. He does that plus insults the fans, perfect strategy for better ratings! LOL It paid off, didn't it? haha

When a show's producer has to resort to that it's time to pull the plug or get a new producer. If Atlantis wants a 5th series it's time to get the pruning shears out and attack the dead wood, not just cast wise but PTB wise too

dana
October 16th, 2007, 05:47 AM
Remember when he actually begged people to watch it? It was on a video on the official site. That was hilarious. Which show runner does THAT? A desperate one. He does that plus insults the fans, perfect strategy for better ratings! LOL It paid off, didn't it? haha


I remember him saying after that on his blog that he was joking, being sarcastic etc. Didn't seem to me as joking....:D

justhere1971
October 16th, 2007, 05:52 AM
I remember him saying after that on his blog that he was joking, being sarcastic etc. Didn't seem to me as joking....:D

Exactly - I was thinking, no you're snarky enough that you would not bend down that much unless you were really asking.

The thing is he can be aggravating - he purposely does so.

mcbarr
October 16th, 2007, 05:54 AM
Honorable member? :sheppard:

Heck, why not? Should we hold an anti-election or something? :D

ShadowMaat
October 16th, 2007, 05:58 AM
Joe isn't the only one begging people to watch, didn't MGM have that "watch it live" campaign for the premiere, when the gung-ho hordes descended en masse, begging other Stargate fans to watch the premiere live? That doesn't speak of confidence, IMO. The only other times I can recall commercials for "live" viewing is when a show was actually filming an ep live.

Maybe Atlantis should try doing a live ep. It'd be freakin' hilarious. ;)

Erised
October 16th, 2007, 06:22 AM
Remember when he actually begged people to watch it? It was on a video on the official site. That was hilarious. Which show runner does THAT? A desperate one. He does that plus insults the fans, perfect strategy for better ratings! LOL It paid off, didn't it? haha


Hmm I think I remember that. I want to hear it again. Do you have a link? :D

Celcool
October 16th, 2007, 06:39 AM
You made me visit that site... :( Anyway, I think that video has been removed, I don't see it there anymore. But I do see some people I don't want to see...

mcbarr
October 16th, 2007, 07:24 AM
Hmm I think I remember that. I want to hear it again. Do you have a link? :D


You made me visit that site... :( Anyway, I think that video has been removed, I don't see it there anymore. But I do see some people I don't want to see...

This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhSvhfqgeuY

:D

Shipperahoy
October 16th, 2007, 07:32 AM
There have been a few complaints from people who think that people in this thread are taking potshots at people who are not anti so I just wanted to post a couple of things.

One, if you feel that there is something going on that is against the rules please don't stir things up by posting in the thread. Just report it and let the mods deal with it.

Two, my interpretation of ShadowMaats' post is that by the "mindless zombie" statement that she was referring to the actual organized by MGM movement in which a bunch of fans spammed GW with posts asking people to watch live so it's not a slam against pros in general but I would like to caution that people take care with their phrasing (not just Shadow).

Thanks!

ToasterOnFire
October 16th, 2007, 07:34 AM
Thanks for the report! He gets us, the antis, he's one of us. :) He should be given the title of the mentor of our ANTI thread or the leader or the celebrity representer or something similar. :sheppard:
Maybe someone should send him a photo of the anti couch? :D


Joe isn't the only one begging people to watch, didn't MGM have that "watch it live" campaign for the premiere, when the mindless zombie hordes descended en masse, begging other Stargate fans to watch the premiere live?
Oh yeah, how annoying was that? MGM was encouraging people to spam forums by giving out "rewards" like wallpaper and videos and whatever the hell. Nice. :rolleyes:

Erised
October 16th, 2007, 07:41 AM
Oh yeah, how annoying was that? MGM was encouraging people to spam forums by giving out "rewards" like wallpaper and videos and whatever the hell. Nice. :rolleyes:

When was that??? o.O

btw I will watch that video when I get home :D Thanks!

Vale_Sg1
October 16th, 2007, 07:43 AM
I had good news at uni today so I decided to play a little with Photoshop...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/valeriasg13/cavolatasga.png

ToasterOnFire
October 16th, 2007, 08:11 AM
When was that??? o.O
Right before the premiere. Darren apparently didn't take too kindly to all the new spam threads encouraging people to watch the show LIVE!!!111!!! See his warning/announcement in the second post here. (http://forum.gateworld.net/announcement.php?f=81) ;)

justhere1971
October 16th, 2007, 08:12 AM
Vale_Sg1 *snort* that's a really really good one.

Erised
October 16th, 2007, 08:15 AM
Right before the premiere. Darren apparently didn't take too kindly to all the new spam threads encouraging people to watch the show LIVE!!!111!!! See his warning/announcement in the second post here. (http://forum.gateworld.net/announcement.php?f=81) ;)

ZOMG how horrible!

YappiChick
October 16th, 2007, 08:33 AM
I had good news at uni today so I decided to play a little with Photoshop...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/valeriasg13/cavolatasga.png

HA HA HA HA!!!! :D :D :D

Suzotchka
October 16th, 2007, 09:27 AM
I just wanted to stop by and wave my stinky socks around

*plops on anti-couch*

*waves stinky socks*

:P

ShadowMaat
October 16th, 2007, 09:38 AM
Two, my interpretation of ShadowMaats' post is that by the "mindless zombie" statement that she was referring to the actual organized by MGM movement in which a bunch of fans spammed GW with posts asking people to watch live so it's not a slam against pros in general but I would like to caution that people take care with their phrasing (not just Shadow).
I've changed the wording, but my issue wasn't with pros in general so much as it was with the people who seemed to think that fans on Gateworld- a Stargate-centric site devoted primarily to Stargate fans- needed to be told to watch the premiere live. But perhaps I'll save that issue for another thread.

I still think that the campaign is a mark of desperation by MGM. Any time TPTB or the studio Suits start begging people to watch their show it isn't a healthy sign.

AutumnDream
October 16th, 2007, 11:57 AM
I had good news at uni today so I decided to play a little with Photoshop...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/valeriasg13/cavolatasga.png

Heh. Nice.

And people are seriously "complaining" to moderators that they are possibly being made fun of in a thread on a sci-fi forum on the internet whose sole existence is to discuss a viewpoint antithetical to theirs? Wow.

Reefgirl
October 16th, 2007, 01:21 PM
Heh. Nice.

And people are seriously "complaining" to moderators that they are possibly being made fun of in a thread on a sci-fi forum on the internet whose sole existence is to discuss a viewpoint antithetical to theirs? Wow.

Send them my way and I'll explain to them what a Life is ;)

Skydiver
October 16th, 2007, 01:57 PM
Oh yeah, how annoying was that? MGM was encouraging people to spam forums by giving out "rewards" like wallpaper and videos and whatever the hell. Nice. :rolleyes:

they call it Team Stargate and it's still going on. I get hit by that spam all the time...and that's all it is, a spam campaign

The thing is, folks that are doing it are NOT supposed to be blanketing stargate forums. We already know the schtick. they're supposed to be hitting the masses

but since it is spam that's kinda hard to do

Reefgirl
October 16th, 2007, 02:03 PM
they call it Team Stargate and it's still going on. I get hit by that spam all the time...and that's all it is, a spam campaign

The thing is, folks that are doing it are NOT supposed to be blanketing stargate forums. We already know the schtick. they're supposed to be hitting the masses

but since it is spam that's kinda hard to do

Surely Spam is Spam, however it's tarted up and whoever's given the go ahead for it

Skydiver
October 16th, 2007, 02:25 PM
spam is spam

but this is one of the first times that a reputable company is literally 'paying' fans to post thier spam

you make posts, send back some proof, and earn points towards getting stuff

Fionnait
October 16th, 2007, 02:36 PM
Heck, why not? Should we hold an anti-election or something? :D

Great idea... So, who is against JF being an honorary member of the Anti-Tread?



Maybe someone should send him a photo of the anti couch? :D

What's the anti couch? Please inaugurate a newbie like me (can you actually use inaugurate in that context??)

Falcon Horus
October 16th, 2007, 02:47 PM
I have no issues to make JF an honorary Anti-member. I'll even create him a batch if the need should arise.

And I realized something today... My internet is out of wank and I was supposed to obtain Reunion but I just couldn't get my webpages to load properly so I had to wait...and I just didn't care about it. I was like "Oh well, it's just Atlantis".

Secondly I don't care if there's a season 5 anymore. I used to care but since Doppelganger that changed. Those who know will know why, others who don't know and haven't seen the episode yet will soon know. I'm apparently associated with this particular character. :p
The thrill of the wait is gone, the thrill of seeing my fave character again is gone. Thank you TPTB for ruining my favorite show.

ToasterOnFire
October 16th, 2007, 03:12 PM
What's the anti couch? Please inaugurate a newbie like me (can you actually use inaugurate in that context??)
A bunch of posters decided that this thread needed symbolic couches to provide relief both from the show and general forum insanity. So it's common for people to pop in here and collapse on the couch. Who's got a pic of that anti couch?


they call it Team Stargate and it's still going on. I get hit by that spam all the time...and that's all it is, a spam campaign

The thing is, folks that are doing it are NOT supposed to be blanketing stargate forums. We already know the schtick. they're supposed to be hitting the masses
Yeah, you'd think most of the people on GW either 1) are already going to watch the show live anyway or 2) are not going to watch live but know about Nielsen boxes thanks to the ratings threads beating that into everyone. ;) :D

But if I was a random person on, say, an anime forum and saw a "WATCH IT LIVE!!!!111!!!" post my first response would be :confused:


Secondly I don't care if there's a season 5 anymore.
My attitude has also changed over the years from "Will SGA get renewed?" to "Will I care if it is?" At this point, I'm not sure if I'm going to watch next season. Heck, I haven't even watched DG yet even though lots of fans have posted how great it is. :S

parisindy
October 16th, 2007, 03:29 PM
I had good news at uni today so I decided to play a little with Photoshop...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/valeriasg13/cavolatasga.png

LMAO! Can i snurch hehe thats brilliant!


I've changed the wording, but my issue wasn't with pros in general so much as it was with the people who seemed to think that fans on Gateworld- a Stargate-centric site devoted primarily to Stargate fans- needed to be told to watch the premiere live. But perhaps I'll save that issue for another thread.

I still think that the campaign is a mark of desperation by MGM. Any time TPTB or the studio Suits start begging people to watch their show it isn't a healthy sign.

gads i can't believe this is an actual campaign! but in someways i'm not surprised. I was told today by someone i should just lie and say i watch so i will be respected...please! :rolleyes:


spam is spam

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/diespamforgordon.gif


I have no issues to make JF an honorary Anti-member. I'll even create him a batch if the need should arise.

And I realized something today... My internet is out of wank and I was supposed to obtain Reunion but I just couldn't get my webpages to load properly so I had to wait...and I just didn't care about it. I was like "Oh well, it's just Atlantis".

Secondly I don't care if there's a season 5 anymore. I used to care but since Doppelganger that changed. Those who know will know why, others who don't know and haven't seen the episode yet will soon know. I'm apparently associated with this particular character. :p
The thrill of the wait is gone, the thrill of seeing my fave character again is gone. Thank you TPTB for ruining my favorite show.

awww i'm sorry for you babes... it so sucks to loose something you loved :(

((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))



My attitude has also changed over the years from "Will SGA get renewed?" to "Will I care if it is?" At this point, I'm not sure if I'm going to watch next season. Heck, I haven't even watched DG yet even though lots of fans have posted how great it is. :S

great post!

Falcon Horus
October 16th, 2007, 03:33 PM
Heck, I haven't even watched DG yet even though lots of fans have posted how great it is. :S

It had potential to be my fave episode no matter what but yeah, that didn't turn out the way I thought.
There are some nice moments. There are definite cringeworthy moments and there are :( - moments, one even to the point of :sheppardanime32: (but that's just me).

Vale_Sg1
October 16th, 2007, 03:35 PM
Guys (or should I say 'girls'? :D), thank you for appreciating my PS efforts. (Parisindy, feel free to snurch it :D).

Also, I'm all for JF as an honorary member of the anti-thread, he's very welcome to sit on my lap (or viceversa, I can take 5 mins off being a rabid feminist) should the anti-couch be too full for everyone to sit.

parisindy
October 16th, 2007, 03:36 PM
Guys (or should I say 'girls'? :D), thank you for appreciating my PS efforts. (Parisindy, feel free to snurch it :D).

Also, I'm all for JF as an honorary member of the anti-thread, he's very welcome to sit on my lap (or viceversa, I can take 5 mins off being a rabid feminist) should the anti-couch be too full for everyone to sit.

SQUEAAAAAA! *snurches*

ehm can we share Joe? :D


It had potential to be my fave episode no matter what but yeah, that didn't turn out the way I thought.
There are some nice moments. There are definite cringeworthy moments and there are :( - moments, one even to the point of :sheppardanime32: (but that's just me).

i am really sorry babes ((((((hugs)))))))

feel free to cry on my shoulder anytime! :(

Vale_Sg1
October 16th, 2007, 03:40 PM
SQUEAAAAAA! *snurches*

ehm can we share Joe? :D

Of course!! We anti's need all the distraction we can get :sheppardanime23:

Falcon Horus
October 16th, 2007, 03:42 PM
i am really sorry babes ((((((hugs)))))))

feel free to cry on my shoulder anytime! :(

The shoulder is mucho appreciated. :)

And oh so many denial fic-ideas. :p

Vale_Sg1
October 16th, 2007, 03:45 PM
And oh so many denial fic-ideas. :p

Denial fic!GREEN!!:cameron:

parisindy
October 16th, 2007, 03:53 PM
The shoulder is mucho appreciated. :)

And oh so many denial fic-ideas. :p


Denial fic!GREEN!!:cameron:

YES! I want a whumped shep fic where maybe he's a bit nutso and a certain lady shrink helps him out!


*ahhh yes fic heaven*

Erised
October 16th, 2007, 06:59 PM
I have no issues to make JF an honorary Anti-member. I'll even create him a batch if the need should arise.

And I realized something today... My internet is out of wank and I was supposed to obtain Reunion but I just couldn't get my webpages to load properly so I had to wait...and I just didn't care about it. I was like "Oh well, it's just Atlantis".

Secondly I don't care if there's a season 5 anymore. I used to care but since Doppelganger that changed. Those who know will know why, others who don't know and haven't seen the episode yet will soon know. I'm apparently associated with this particular character. :p
The thrill of the wait is gone, the thrill of seeing my fave character again is gone. Thank you TPTB for ruining my favorite show.

*hugs* I saw your name mentioned on every LJ entry made about Doppelganger. :) Everyone loves you and don't want to see you sad! And it was sad! not just because it happened but also how it happened. She was treated like she was a one time guest character who would be among those poor victims who died.

parisindy
October 16th, 2007, 07:45 PM
*hugs* I saw your name mentioned on every LJ entry made about Doppelganger. :) Everyone loves you and don't want to see you sad! And it was sad!


so very very very true! (((HUGS))) you're a good egg!

Reefgirl
October 16th, 2007, 11:02 PM
spam is spam

but this is one of the first times that a reputable company is literally 'paying' fans to post thier spam

you make posts, send back some proof, and earn points towards getting stuff

That's disgusting.

Fionnait
October 16th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Also, I'm all for JF as an honorary member of the anti-thread, he's very welcome to sit on my lap (or viceversa, I can take 5 mins off being a rabid feminist) should the anti-couch be too full for everyone to sit.

You can't be all for it, this is an anti-election in the anti-thread! The most positive you're allowed to get is having no objections ;)



Secondly I don't care if there's a season 5 anymore. I used to care but since Doppelganger that changed. Those who know will know why, others who don't know and haven't seen the episode yet will soon know. I'm apparently associated with this particular character. :p
The thrill of the wait is gone, the thrill of seeing my fave character again is gone. Thank you TPTB for ruining my favorite show.

I'm so sorry for you *hugs* Another one bites the dust... welcome to the club. While this time it did not hit a favourite of mine I can't fathom what they are thinking. I still feel pissed about another character being slaughtered. Ans so soon! At this rate there simply won't be any characters left to do a season 5!! Oh, wait, I have a brilliant idea! Why don't they drop a bio-bomb onto atlantis that kills all stupid SGA characters at once, so we're rid of them once and for all and because it's a special bomb atlantis will stay intact and they can send an entirely new expedition. Which will of course be let by SG1. And they will have partial amnesia, so that no one will remember the first expedition! (Of course Carter will not be on Atlantis when the bomb drops...)

I'm taking this too serious, but there you go *g*

Celcool
October 17th, 2007, 12:52 AM
Great idea... So, who is against JF being an honorary member of the Anti-Tread?

What's the anti couch? Please inaugurate a newbie like me (can you actually use inaugurate in that context??)
So it's settled, JF is our honorary member. *applause* And congrats to him!

We have 2 very comfy anti couches. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Celcool/new/anticouchup7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Celcool/new/anticouch2vz6.jpg

You can sit down and listen to the anti soudtracks, watch the anti TV (no Atlantis S4 there) and drink the anti drinks. Lots of choices. All for your enjoyment. :D


You can't be all for it, this is an anti-election in the anti-thread! The most positive you're allowed to get is having no objections ;)

LOL

Pajus
October 17th, 2007, 01:57 AM
I'm so sorry for you *hugs* Another one bites the dust... welcome to the club. While this time it did not hit a favourite of mine I can't fathom what they are thinking. I still feel pissed about another character being slaughtered. Ans so soon! At this rate there simply won't be any characters left to do a season 5!! Oh, wait, I have a brilliant idea! Why don't they drop a bio-bomb onto atlantis that kills all stupid SGA characters at once, so we're rid of them once and for all and because it's a special bomb atlantis will stay intact and they can send an entirely new expedition. Which will of course be let by SG1. And they will have partial amnesia, so that no one will remember the first expedition! (Of course Carter will not be on Atlantis when the bomb drops...)

I'm taking this too serious, but there you go *g*

That bio-bomb would've been a good idea 2 years ago. Now it would be way too little way too late.

I don't know Joe Flanigan personally. He could've been good as a TPTB, but the first thing I would've done is to kick Sheppard out of the show. I know he has a lot of fangirls, but his influence on the TV audience is the one of disgust.

justhere1971
October 17th, 2007, 03:52 AM
That bio-bomb would've been a good idea 2 years ago. Now it would be way too little way too late.

I don't know Joe Flanigan personally. He could've been good as a TPTB, but the first thing I would've done is to kick Sheppard out of the show. I know he has a lot of fangirls, but his influence on the TV audience is the one of disgust.

It is?

Reefgirl
October 17th, 2007, 03:55 AM
You can sit down and listen to the anti soudtracks, watch the anti TV (no Atlantis S4 there) and drink the anti drinks. Lots of choices. All for your enjoyment. :D LOL
As I was working last night I missed Lifeline (I do have it on Sky+ to watch later as I want to know how Adrift finishes, fool that I am) and when I got up this morning I had the choice of watching Atlantis or 2 overgrown schoolboys build a space shuttle out of a Reliant Robin....James May and Richard Hammond won hands down http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_evilgrin.gif

Vale_Sg1
October 17th, 2007, 04:08 AM
You can't be all for it, this is an anti-election in the anti-thread! The most positive you're allowed to get is having no objections ;)

LOL, you're right!! Okay, I'm willing to accept the man ;)



At this rate there simply won't be any characters left to do a season 5!! Oh, wait, I have a brilliant idea! Why don't they drop a bio-bomb onto atlantis that kills all stupid SGA characters at once, so we're rid of them once and for all and because it's a special bomb atlantis will stay intact and they can send an entirely new expedition. Which will of course be let by SG1. And they will have partial amnesia, so that no one will remember the first expedition! (Of course Carter will not be on Atlantis when the bomb drops...)

I'm taking this too serious, but there you go *g*

Ohh, we hypotesized a similar plot a while ago, but it was a pro-Farscape bout. Cancel the bad show and bring back the good!!

Although, I wouldn't be the least surprised if more characters were to be sacrificed to make room for the ex-SG1 regulars / recurrings. I believe (I hope) they're done with the deaths for S4 (we were suspecting Zelenka but according to David Nykl, he's staying), but should S5 be approved...*shudders*

Skydiver
October 17th, 2007, 04:09 AM
GUys, i've had a concern voiced to me that i'd like to address. And it's about y 'all making Joe F an honorary member of the Anti Thread.

Guys...let's take a step back please. Yes, joe has made comments that he's not comfortable with some of the changes...but also he's made comments that he's comfortable with the changes. He likes his co-workers and his job.

But think about it this way...we DO have members of TPTB come here. Joe and company, and i'm sure folks from MGM and Scifi have lurked upon occasion. Do you REALLY want to risk Joe's job and reputation by alledging that he agrees with you and your thread?

This is something that, even though he's NEVER posted on this forum, that could come back and bite him in the tush because it could be interpretated that he's publically complaining and this could be endangering his job or reputation in a worst case scenario.

How about, please, we keep the real life people out of this.

Out of respect for Joe and his job and his reputation, let's keep him out of this thread.

stclare
October 17th, 2007, 04:10 AM
As I was working last night I missed Lifeline (I do have it on Sky+ to watch later as I want to know how Adrift finishes, fool that I am) and when I got up this morning I had the choice of watching Atlantis or 2 overgrown schoolboys build a space shuttle out of a Reliant Robin....James May and Richard Hammond won hands down http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_evilgrin.gif

did it work? i havent watched top gear in forever (it was top gear right??) :)

silkie
October 17th, 2007, 04:20 AM
So it's settled, JF is our honorary member. *applause* And congrats to him!

We have 2 very comfy anti couches. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Celcool/new/anticouchup7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Celcool/new/anticouch2vz6.jpg

You can sit down and listen to the anti soudtracks, watch the anti TV (no Atlantis S4 there) and drink the anti drinks. Lots of choices. All for your enjoyment. :D


LOL


Uhm...They look kinda small. I'm not sure they can accommodate all the antis... :)

Southern Red
October 17th, 2007, 04:27 AM
GUys, i've had a concern voiced to me that i'd like to address. And it's about y 'all making Joe F an honorary member of the Anti Thread.

Guys...let's take a step back please. Yes, joe has made comments that he's not comfortable with some of the changes...but also he's made comments that he's comfortable with the changes. He likes his co-workers and his job.

But think about it this way...we DO have members of TPTB come here. Joe and company, and i'm sure folks from MGM and Scifi have lurked upon occasion. Do you REALLY want to risk Joe's job and reputation by alledging that he agrees with you and your thread?

This is something that, even though he's NEVER posted on this forum, that could come back and bite him in the tush because it could be interpretated that he's publically complaining and this could be endangering his job or reputation in a worst case scenario.

How about, please, we keep the real life people out of this.

Out of respect for Joe and his job and his reputation, let's keep him out of this thread.

Thank you Skydiver, for saying that. I knew I was uncomfortable with this but couldn't really articulate why. I appreciate JF speaking up and supporting his co-workers, but I don't think he's anti-S4 at all. He even said once that he had misgivings at first but got over those as filming progressed.

May I also add, too late I fear, that I wish posters on JM's blog would stop blabbing about what Joe has said. Are they trying to cause conflict? JF will be the one who ultimately suffers. Do any of us want that? Well, maybe some do, but you get the idea.

Reefgirl
October 17th, 2007, 04:27 AM
did it work? i havent watched top gear in forever (it was top gear right??) :)

Yes it was Top Gear and no it didn't work, it left a very big hole in an Army base in Nothumberland but it was great fun to watch, it was the last series I think

Anyway if you want to watch it the links are under the the spoilers 'cos it's OT
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHIx5jFBUTY&mode=related&search=)

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk5M6J2zMWQ&mode=related&search=)


Edit: While we're on the Anti subject, what would you fill your Sky+/DVR box with to get away from the pain that is Season 4. For me it would be Top Gear, Dr Who, 4400, NCIS and dinnerladies

stclare
October 17th, 2007, 04:48 AM
Yes it was Top Gear and no it didn't work, it left a very big hole in an Army base in Nothumberland but it was great fun to watch, it was the last series I think

Anyway if you want to watch it the links are under the the spoilers 'cos it's OT
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHIx5jFBUTY&mode=related&search=)

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk5M6J2zMWQ&mode=related&search=)


Edit: While we're on the Anti subject, what would you fill your Sky+/DVR box with to get away from the pain that is Season 4. For me it would be Top Gear, Dr Who, 4400, NCIS and dinnerladies


dinnerladies
coldcase
that 70s show

thanks for the link :)

stclare
October 17th, 2007, 04:56 AM
Thank you Skydiver, for saying that. I knew I was uncomfortable with this but couldn't really articulate why. I appreciate JF speaking up and supporting his co-workers, but I don't think he's anti-S4 at all. He even said once that he had misgivings at first but got over those as filming progressed.

May I also add, too late I fear, that I wish posters on JM's blog would stop blabbing about what Joe has said. Are they trying to cause conflict? JF will be the one who ultimately suffers. Do any of us want that? Well, maybe some do, but you get the idea.

i dont read jm's blog. only the bits pulled out on the GW thread.
have you mentioned your concerns on his blog? as i dont think anyone on this thread is active over there.

:)

Reefgirl
October 17th, 2007, 05:03 AM
dinnerladies
coldcase
that 70s show

thanks for the link :)
You're Welcome

mcbarr
October 17th, 2007, 06:11 AM
The Anti Season 4 Thread is getting more and more important, isn't it? I wonder why. :rolleyes:

Ok, I oppose Sheppard as an honorary Anti (for his own good, it seems). :S

justhere1971
October 17th, 2007, 06:13 AM
GUys, i've had a concern voiced to me that i'd like to address. And it's about y 'all making Joe F an honorary member of the Anti Thread.

Guys...let's take a step back please. Yes, joe has made comments that he's not comfortable with some of the changes...but also he's made comments that he's comfortable with the changes. He likes his co-workers and his job.

But think about it this way...we DO have members of TPTB come here. Joe and company, and i'm sure folks from MGM and Scifi have lurked upon occasion. Do you REALLY want to risk Joe's job and reputation by alledging that he agrees with you and your thread?

This is something that, even though he's NEVER posted on this forum, that could come back and bite him in the tush because it could be interpretated that he's publically complaining and this could be endangering his job or reputation in a worst case scenario.

How about, please, we keep the real life people out of this.

Out of respect for Joe and his job and his reputation, let's keep him out of this thread.

I agree. It's Joe's right to say whatever he wants. I do agree he simply enjoys his jobs and like most of us who work for a living he has issues with certain things and love other aspects. It's not our place to make him choose.

Southern Red
October 17th, 2007, 06:18 AM
i dont read jm's blog. only the bits pulled out on the GW thread.
have you mentioned your concerns on his blog? as i dont think anyone on this thread is active over there.

:)

If I mentioned my concerns on JM's blog that would just keep the subject going. I was hoping that people would show some common sense over there, but I should have known better.

*goes back to the safety of fantasyland*

Skydiver
October 17th, 2007, 06:29 AM
how about we nix Joe F being an honorary member please.

Just out of respect for him and his job and that, in the entertainment world, sometimes the difference between getting/not getting a job can be something as simple as 'dude, did you hear him blast his co-workers last year'

I am NOT suggesting that this would or will happen, just that, in the acting world, reputation can be just as important as skill when it comes to getting a job.

Y'all can quote his words, but please do not infer that you 'know what he means'...you don't. None of us do.

Let's please keep our speculation kept to his words only and let's not make joe an honorable member please. Just out of respect for him and his job

Chrysalis
October 17th, 2007, 06:32 AM
If I mentioned my concerns on JM's blog that would just keep the subject going. I was hoping that people would show some common sense over there, but I should have known better.

*goes back to the safety of fantasyland*

Hmm. What's with all these people attacking the way he plays the character? I just went and had a look. It seems there are some who just like to attack Shep no matter what...

Skydiver
October 17th, 2007, 06:33 AM
pick a character, any character, and there's always someone ready to attack them for simply existing

poundpuppy29
October 17th, 2007, 06:42 AM
My only issue with Shep is when they Kirk him I love him otherwise his loyality to his friends are what I love about him the most and it looks like they may be doing that again this year the Kirking. I don't hate Sam I just don't want her on SGA as a regular as a guest would be ok. But I agree with Sky about JF.

Anuna
October 17th, 2007, 06:44 AM
She is ok as long as he doesn't go kirking. It's dumbing him down, he is interesting enough without it.

stclare
October 17th, 2007, 06:52 AM
She is ok as long as he doesn't go kirking. It's dumbing him down, he is interesting enough without it.

thats why this whole travellers set up worries me.

apart from the irries, its the kirk like eps next on my hit list sanctuary. i found it made me loose respect for shep. i much prefer him thinking with his brain than with his loins :cool: also where there is kirk theres also scantily clad women ((rolls eyes)) been there watched that and seen it all before ;)

Reefgirl
October 17th, 2007, 06:58 AM
pick a character, any character, and there's always someone ready to attack them for simply existing

*Ahem* Sam in Atlantis *Ahem*

Skydiver
October 17th, 2007, 07:02 AM
yes, well, let's not go off topic please.

This is the venting haven for all things icky and unpleasant in s4, not the place to rag on other fen

FoolishPleasure
October 17th, 2007, 07:04 AM
My only issue with Shep is when they Kirk him.

That was the big problem I had with him as well, but in season 3 TPTB seemed to tone that down big time. Shep isn't my fav character, but he is much improved over season 2. But Shep isn't the problem with this show - its the stinky writing full of plot holes and cutting of essential characters.

But TPTB will never admit they did something wrong that killed their own show. Heaven forbid!

Skydiver
October 17th, 2007, 07:13 AM
they never did for s9 and 10

as far as they're concerned, the show was just fine and it's the fans who let them down :S

Anuna
October 17th, 2007, 07:15 AM
That was the big problem I had with him as well, but in season 3 TPTB seemed to tone that down big time. Shep isn't my fav character, but he is much improved over season 2. But Shep isn't the problem with this show - its the stinky writing full of plot holes and cutting of essential characters.

But TPTB will never admit they did something wrong that killed their own show. Heaven forbid!

Actually the first character I liked and was interested in was Shep. In Rising he is lonely, sad and stubborn - obviously has some issues and seems pretty smart too. A winning combo. And then kirking happens. *shakes head* But Elizabeth earned my respect slowly and over time she set herself apart from everybody else, so to me she is the best over there.

dana
October 17th, 2007, 07:17 AM
they never did for s9 and 10

as far as they're concerned, the show was just fine and it's the fans who let them down :S

Yah...but why did they let them down...hmmm...bad writing maybeeee? TPTB are delusional.

ToasterOnFire
October 17th, 2007, 07:26 AM
I've never been all that interested in Shep and I downright despised when all the babes were throwing themselves at him in s2. He's kind of a Marty Stu - top pilot, super gene power, MENSA level intelligence, rebel yet everyone still loves him, all the chicks dig him - eh it was all too much.

I do like his strong, almost excessive attachment to his team, this undercurrent of sadness in him, and how he's so willing to sacrifice himself to save others, almost to the point of a death wish. Any or all of those aspects could be examined further to better flesh out his character.

Vale_Sg1
October 17th, 2007, 07:31 AM
how about we nix Joe F being an honorary member please.

Just out of respect for him and his job and that, in the entertainment world, sometimes the difference between getting/not getting a job can be something as simple as 'dude, did you hear him blast his co-workers last year'

I am NOT suggesting that this would or will happen, just that, in the acting world, reputation can be just as important as skill when it comes to getting a job.

Y'all can quote his words, but please do not infer that you 'know what he means'...you don't. None of us do.

Let's please keep our speculation kept to his words only and let's not make joe an honorable member please. Just out of respect for him and his job

Aye aye!!:cameron21:

We'll just appreciate the fact that he seems to care about his co-workers and he's not afraid to say that aloud :)

poundpuppy29
October 17th, 2007, 07:33 AM
I do like his strong, almost excessive attachment to his team, this undercurrent of sadness in him, and how he's so willing to sacrifice himself to save others, almost to the point of a death wish. Any or all of those aspects could be examined further to better flesh out his character.
ITA that's why I am so nervous about Travelers it is a step in the wrong direction for Shep if what I saw in the previews is the direction they are going they are going the Kirk route not going deeper into Shep.

Southern Red
October 17th, 2007, 07:35 AM
Hmm. What's with all these people attacking the way he plays the character? I just went and had a look. It seems there are some who just like to attack Shep no matter what...

It's a mystery to me also. I think JF is a great actor, and I totally get what he meant by showing multi levels to his character. We don't want to see Shep sobbing into his pillow, but who can doubt that he cares after watching Lifeline and Doppelganger? I don't know too many actors who can show so much emotion without saying a word. Sometimes less is more.


That was the big problem I had with him as well, but in season 3 TPTB seemed to tone that down big time. Shep isn't my fav character, but he is much improved over season 2. But Shep isn't the problem with this show - its the stinky writing full of plot holes and cutting of essential characters.

But TPTB will never admit they did something wrong that killed their own show. Heaven forbid!

You nailed it right there. All the actors are doing a wonderful job with dreck.

I'm a little torn this year about the kirk stuff. I know I was one of the loudest mouths criticizing him in S2. It just seemed stupid and excessive, and even though others told me I was being stupid and excessive for thinking it was belittling to his character, I didn't change my mind. Last season he barely glanced at the buxom babes, and noone showed the least bit of interest in him as far as I recall. So, he's been a good boy for over a year. He's been through enough trauma in the last few months to destroy a weaker man and then this Larrin babe comes along. We don't know yet if he will act like a 15 year old like he did in The Tower or not, so I am reserving judgment. And frankly, though I don't know any other Sparky fan who agrees with me It's okay, I'm a big girl. I won't mind if he seeks a little comfort from her. It's basic human nature I think.

But on the other hand, it's true that TPTB aren't thinking along those lines. They can't seem to get beyond...hot babe..snurk snurk snurk drool.

Pajus
October 17th, 2007, 07:52 AM
It is?

Sure it is.

I don't know how the US Air Force works, but if Sheppard was an officer in our army, his fate would develop as follows:

1. A couple of people from our General Staff would get the mission reports from the first year of the Atlantis expedition. I hope I don't need to say they would not be amused

2. They would order Sheppard to go back to Earth.

3. Once on Earth, they would court martial him for repeated insubordination and disrespectful behavior towards a superior officer and kick him out of the army. They would most definitely not care what Dr Weir said about him

4. They would pick another officer to take Sheppard's place in Atlantis and apologize to the IOA for sending an idiot to a position of such responsibility.

Just look at Sheppard! He's an offront to all good soldiers on this planet! And worst of all: He's already teaching his manners to Lorne!

Anuna
October 17th, 2007, 08:27 AM
I've never been all that interested in Shep and I downright despised when all the babes were throwing themselves at him in s2. He's kind of a Marty Stu - top pilot, super gene power, MENSA level intelligence, rebel yet everyone still loves him, all the chicks dig him - eh it was all too much.

I do like his strong, almost excessive attachment to his team, this undercurrent of sadness in him, and how he's so willing to sacrifice himself to save others, almost to the point of a death wish. Any or all of those aspects could be examined further to better flesh out his character.

Gosh I am happy I am not the only one who thinks the same of him. I do like him for this never fully explored, troubled side of his persona. Now if TPTB wanted a darker season, one good thing to do would be exploring Sheppard's character and explaining why he is the way he is.

Vale_Sg1
October 17th, 2007, 09:03 AM
Gosh I am happy I am not the only one who thinks the same of him. I do like him for this never fully explored, troubled side of his persona. Now if TPTB wanted a darker season, one good thing to do would be exploring Sheppard's character and explaining why he is the way he is.

Definitely. I had high expectations for 'Phantoms' last year, but his part was a little bit of a let down. (and poor Teyla :teylaanime08:)

I have somewhat mixed feelings about John - there's a lingering mysteriousness that draws you to him, but the way the character's been developed...well, he just comes off as very annoying at times. Kirking included.

And I'm afraid the whole ex-wife thing will be handled in the usual way - badly (not to mention all the clichés that could -and probably will - find their way into the storyline).

Fionnait
October 17th, 2007, 09:23 AM
It's a mystery to me also. I think JF is a great actor, and I totally get what he meant by showing multi levels to his character. We don't want to see Shep sobbing into his pillow, but who can doubt that he cares after watching Lifeline and Doppelganger? I don't know too many actors who can show so much emotion without saying a word. Sometimes less is more.

I'm a little torn this year about the kirk stuff. I know I was one of the loudest mouths criticizing him in S2. It just seemed stupid and excessive, and even though others told me I was being stupid and excessive for thinking it was belittling to his character, I didn't change my mind. Last season he barely glanced at the buxom babes, and noone showed the least bit of interest in him as far as I recall. So, he's been a good boy for over a year. He's been through enough trauma in the last few months to destroy a weaker man and then this Larrin babe comes along. We don't know yet if he will act like a 15 year old like he did in The Tower or not, so I am reserving judgment. And frankly, though I don't know any other Sparky fan who agrees with me It's okay, I'm a big girl. I won't mind if he seeks a little comfort from her. It's basic human nature I think.

But on the other hand, it's true that TPTB aren't thinking along those lines. They can't seem to get beyond...hot babe..snurk snurk snurk drool.

I agree with you. *hides* I wouldn't mind seeing Sheppard loosing himself just a bit, because Elizabeth is gone, who (almost) always believed in him. I doubt we're going to see that, though. We can always write fics that go down that road and explain his actions in S4 :D

And I also think that a lot of the deeper aspects of Sheppard's character come from good acting, rather then good writing writing. Which leads us back to the topic...

Suzotchka
October 17th, 2007, 09:35 AM
Even in syndication the ratings are falling:

http://www.gateworld.net/news/2007/10/syndication_ratings_continue_to_.shtml

Anuna
October 17th, 2007, 10:09 AM
Definitely. I had high expectations for 'Phantoms' last year, but his part was a little bit of a let down. (and poor Teyla :teylaanime08:)

I have somewhat mixed feelings about John - there's a lingering mysteriousness that draws you to him, but the way the character's been developed...well, he just comes off as very annoying at times. Kirking included.

And I'm afraid the whole ex-wife thing will be handled in the usual way - badly (not to mention all the clichés that could -and probably will - find their way into the storyline).

Ugh, I expact nothing but cliches from "Outcast", and I wonder just how much backstory will we get to see about him.

Apart from kirking, his [email protected] can really be annoying. A bit of it is fun, but McShep fest episodes usually end up.... ugh.


I agree with you. *hides* I wouldn't mind seeing Sheppard loosing himself just a bit, because Elizabeth is gone, who (almost) always believed in him. I doubt we're going to see that, though. We can always write fics that go down that road and explain his actions in S4 :D

And I also think that a lot of the deeper aspects of Sheppard's character come from good acting, rather then good writing writing. Which leads us back to the topic...

I agree. The moments where he makes most sense (like coin tossing in "The Rising" - I love that scene because it sums up everything about him perfectly) seem like good acting and not good writing to me.

Skydiver
October 17th, 2007, 01:09 PM
We'll just appreciate the fact that he seems to care about his co-workers and he's not afraid to say that aloud

sounds like a darn good thing to respect.

and honestly, the actors that CAN care for others and are unselfish enough to think of others are the actors that ultimately, go further than the 'me, me, me' ones.

Part of succeeding in acting isn't always skill, but your attitude, how you're liked and how you work with others.

Reefgirl
October 17th, 2007, 01:15 PM
Sure it is.

I don't know how the US Air Force works, but if Sheppard was an officer in our army, his fate would develop as follows:

1. A couple of people from our General Staff would get the mission reports from the first year of the Atlantis expedition. I hope I don't need to say they would not be amused

2. They would order Sheppard to go back to Earth.

3. Once on Earth, they would court martial him for repeated insubordination and disrespectful behavior towards a superior officer and kick him out of the army. They would most definitely not care what Dr Weir said about him

4. They would pick another officer to take Sheppard's place in Atlantis and apologize to the IOA for sending an idiot to a position of such responsibility.

Just look at Sheppard! He's an offront to all good soldiers on this planet! And worst of all: He's already teaching his manners to Lorne!

At last!!! someone who agrees with me, Sheppard would have been in the US version of Colchester long ago. He is an afront to officers everywhere and I've met all ranks from all three services

ShadowMaat
October 17th, 2007, 02:08 PM
At last!!! someone who agrees with me, Sheppard would have been in the US version of Colchester long ago. He is an afront to officers everywhere and I've met all ranks from all three services

I always thought it was a given that Sheppard is a ridiculously bad military officer.

Reefgirl
October 17th, 2007, 02:19 PM
I always thought it was a given that Sheppard is a ridiculously bad military officer.

I have to put up with my other half telling me what a bad officer Sheppard is, being a former Squaddie himself he tends to foam at the mouth whenever Sheppard is on screen, especially when he has a gun in his hand. The OH was training as a sniper before he was invalided out and I tend to get a long lecture on the how's, when's and why's of rifles so I'm usually careful what I say around him :lol:

parisindy
October 17th, 2007, 03:25 PM
see shep is my fav :)

i love him as the underdog... i love his issues...
and it doesn't bug me in the least if someone doesn't like him
or accuses him of stuff... but you know i just really don't see the 'kirking'

but hey thats cool to hehe

i used to be in the military and shep is a bit sloopy

but i think he has the 'leading skills' that many military people don't have

SGFerrit
October 17th, 2007, 03:59 PM
Even in syndication the ratings are falling:

http://www.gateworld.net/news/2007/10/syndication_ratings_continue_to_.shtml

That's the season 3 ratings though. They have nothing to do with season 4 on cable.

seattle_mary1979
October 17th, 2007, 05:35 PM
God, just watched the latest episode and wtf...it was the ShepMcShep show--just when you thought they couldn't show anymore McShep, they did...I think the show exec. should just admit their lifestyle choice <not that there is anything wrong with that> and go write a sequel to Brokeback.

I can't really see this show lasting much longer then a season or two if they keep going down this path.

mcbarr
October 17th, 2007, 07:13 PM
God, just watched the latest episode and wtf...it was the ShepMcShep show--just when you thought they couldn't show anymore McShep, they did...I think the show exec. should just admit their lifestyle choice <not that there is anything wrong with that> and go write a sequel to Brokeback.

That would be track 4 of The Stinky Sock Mix - Volume 1. :)

parisindy
October 17th, 2007, 07:23 PM
That would be track 4 of The Stinky Sock Mix - Volume 1. :)

LMAO!

Ruined_puzzle
October 17th, 2007, 07:24 PM
I want to laugh too, what's track #4.

parisindy
October 17th, 2007, 07:34 PM
That would be track 4 of The Stinky Sock Mix - Volume 1. :)

The Stinky Sock Mix - Volume 1

1. Queen - Another One Bites The Dust
2. KC & The Sunshine Band - Shake Your Booty
3. Twisted Sisters - We're Not Gonna Take It
4. Village People - YMCA
5. Europe - The Final Countdown
6. U2 - Sunday Bloody Sunday
7. The Who - Won't Get Fooled Again
8. REM - It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
9. Tina Turner - We Don't Need Another Hero
10. Harvey Danger - Flagpole Sitta
11. Kaiser Chiefs - Every Day I Love You Less And Less
12. Electrasy- Cosmic Castaway
13. The Offspring - Why Don't You Get A Job
14. Pink Floyd - Another Brick In The Wall
15. Metallica - King Nothing
16. Sinead O'Connor - Fire On Babylon
17. The Cranberries - Zombie
18. Scissor Sisters - I Don't Feel Like Dancing
19. Bee Gees - Stayin' Alive
20. Within Temptation - What Have You Done



:D

Pajus
October 17th, 2007, 09:20 PM
see shep is my fav :)

i love him as the underdog... i love his issues...
and it doesn't bug me in the least if someone doesn't like him
or accuses him of stuff... but you know i just really don't see the 'kirking'

but hey thats cool to hehe

i used to be in the military and shep is a bit sloopy

but i think he has the 'leading skills' that many military people don't have

A bit sloppy you say? If Sheppard is a bit sloppy, I'd like to see the sloppy and very sloppy officers. If what you're saying is true, the US Air Force should be renamed to US Hive of Anarchy

Ruined_puzzle
October 17th, 2007, 09:48 PM
Okay, JT here you go JF for ptb icons. Want a differen color just tell me. I kind of went overboard, I'm bad at decision making ;)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/jftotb7.png

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/jftotb5.png

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/jftotb6.png

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/jftotb4.png

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/jftotb3.png

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/jfforptba.png

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/jftotb2.png

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/jfforptb4.png

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/jfforptb2.png

Anuna
October 17th, 2007, 10:04 PM
OMG!!! R_P; do you mind if I snurch few of them? I love them!!!

Yeah I also think Shep is a bit sloppy. I am aware some things (like his hair, huh?) wouldn't be allowed in real army. But I live his issues, just like paris said; I see him as and underdog. Yet he could easily do without kirking, he is rebelious enough. I liked how they toned him down a bit in S3. He seemed like gorown up person a bit more, if we don't take McShep into consideration.

parisindy
October 17th, 2007, 10:20 PM
A bit sloppy you say? If Sheppard is a bit sloppy, I'd like to see the sloppy and very sloppy officers. If what you're saying is true, the US Air Force should be renamed to US Hive of Anarchy

I wasn't in the us military so maybe my standards are different,,,, or maybe i just like sloppy guys ;)
i love that john isnt typically military...says a lot about him


Okay, JT here you go JF for ptb icons. Want a differen color just tell me. I kind of went overboard, I'm bad at decision making ;)

*begs OMG!* can i snurch too!?

Anuna
October 17th, 2007, 10:49 PM
Well in any army service I guess being tidy is pretty important. In my country serving army and getting a basic training is still obligatory for men. I remeber how my boyfriend used to fold his shirts. Comapred to that, many girls are sloppy.

Ruined_puzzle
October 17th, 2007, 10:57 PM
Sure you guys can use them too. ZOMG I should have made one that said "JF for ptb because there would be skateboards" LOL.

P.S. anyone that's anti can use them ;)

Anuna
October 17th, 2007, 11:06 PM
Sure you guys can use them too. ZOMG I should have made one that said "JF for ptb because there would be skateboards" LOL.

P.S. anyone that's anti can use them ;)


Then make one! Or: "If JF was PTB, we would still have Elizabeth and Carson." I'd like one with that text. ;)

Vale_Sg1
October 17th, 2007, 11:37 PM
Okay, JT here you go JF for ptb icons. Want a differen color just tell me. I kind of went overboard, I'm bad at decision making ;)

Damn, can't green you!!! I'm snurching a couple, too, they're great!!! I really have to make some room in my LJ userpics (how bad is it that I've reached my 109 userpic limit? :sheppardanime21:)

Ruined_puzzle
October 17th, 2007, 11:48 PM
Then make one! Or: "If JF was PTB, we would still have Elizabeth and Carson." I'd like one with that text. ;)
HEEE!!!Fine. It's the same style.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/IF.png
DUDE I totally did this instead of my graphic design homework. *headdesk*


Damn, can't green you!!! I'm snurching a couple, too, they're great!!! I really have to make some room in my LJ userpics (how bad is it that I've reached my 109 userpic limit? :sheppardanime21:)

I also have filled up all my spaces and I have 110 userpics. Lj needs to give us more userpic space.

Umm.. boo to s4. LoL

Pajus
October 17th, 2007, 11:57 PM
At last!!! someone who agrees with me, Sheppard would have been in the US version of Colchester long ago. He is an afront to officers everywhere and I've met all ranks from all three services

That punishment would be too cruel

Anuna
October 18th, 2007, 12:07 AM
Thank you R_P!!! I'm sooo gonna use it!!!

Reefgirl
October 18th, 2007, 12:15 AM
A bit sloppy you say? If Sheppard is a bit sloppy, I'd like to see the sloppy and very sloppy officers. If what you're saying is true, the US Air Force should be renamed to US Hive of Anarchy

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_rofl.gif http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_laugh.gif http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_rofl.gif

I'm going to have to have a word with some of the staff at work and get their opinion on whether Sheppard would spend the rest of his life in a military prison or be busted back down to the ranks for his insubordination because that's exactly what it is

Reefgirl
October 18th, 2007, 12:18 AM
That punishment would be too cruel

I know it's harsh in Colchester but it's a military prison, it's supposed to be. Or are you suggesting the British MP's would take great delight in beasting an American pretty boy ;)

Anuna
October 18th, 2007, 12:25 AM
Well I don't know about you, but I think a proson never helped anybody improve. The experience can only teach you how to be worse. Anyway.. I think this discussion is getting OT just a bit.

Pajus
October 18th, 2007, 12:43 AM
Well I don't know about you, but I think a proson never helped anybody improve. The experience can only teach you how to be worse. Anyway.. I think this discussion is getting OT just a bit.

I know. I'll just explain one more thing to my Mistress


I know it's harsh in Colchester but it's a military prison, it's supposed to be. Or are you suggesting the British MP's would take great delight in beasting an American pretty boy ;)

Try to imagine this situation: Sheppard is sitting in a cell in Fort Leavenworth (US equivalent of Colchester). You know what that'll unleash? All his fangirls would disguise themselves as inmates and guards and the moment Sheppard enters the shower room, they'd give a whole new (and even more frightening) meaning to the word <snip>

I don't know British MP's, so I trust your judgement on this one, Mistress

Celcool
October 18th, 2007, 12:45 AM
Then make one! Or: "If JF was PTB, we would still have Elizabeth and Carson." I'd like one with that text. ;)
Love that one! I'll put the text in my sig, hope you don't mind.

Reefgirl
October 18th, 2007, 12:57 AM
Anyway.. I think this discussion is getting OT just a bit.

Oh and all the gushing over Joe Flanigan wasn't?


Try to imagine this situation: Sheppard is sitting in a cell in Fort Leavenworth (US equivalent of Colchester). You know what that'll unleash? All his fangirls would disguise themselves as inmates and guards and the moment Sheppard enters the shower room, they'd give a whole new (and even more frightening) meaning to the word "<snip>"

:eek: Boiling hot bath...need a boiling hot bath...must get clean...must get clean http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_run.gif


I don't know British MP's, so I trust your judgement on this one, Mistress


Evil http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_bleep.gifs my young apprentissss, something for you to aim to ;)

Willow'sCat
October 18th, 2007, 01:03 AM
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_rofl.gif http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_laugh.gif http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_rofl.gif

I'm going to have to have a word with some of the staff at work and get their opinion on whether Sheppard would spend the rest of his life in a military prison or be busted back down to the ranks for his insubordination because that's exactly what it isWhen Joe M said Sheppard was a hero I almost choked on my coffee! LOL! He is no hero. He is another failure of tptb. :cool:

No wonder the show is dying... look at the two lead characters they had for three seasons. :cool::rolleyes: Well one is gone.... Just waiting now. :cool:

Reefgirl
October 18th, 2007, 02:49 AM
When Joe M said Sheppard was a hero I almost choked on my coffee! LOL! He is no hero. He is another failure of tptb. :cool:

No wonder the show is dying... look at the two lead characters they had for three seasons. :cool::rolleyes: Well one is gone.... Just waiting now. :cool:

I know what you mean, a military leader that can't follow a rule to save his life and a 'Seasoned' diplomatic negotiator who rolls over and gives in at the first sign of trouble

Skydiver
October 18th, 2007, 04:03 AM
guys....again, as much fun as you are having with Joe for PTB...you are basically doing the same thing as making him an honorary member of this thread.

How about we keep the discussion on the issues you have with the SHOW and keep the actors out of it please?

Keep your discussions to the characters

Pajus
October 18th, 2007, 04:10 AM
Evil http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_bleep.gifs my young apprentissss, something for you to aim to ;)

Why would I do such things, Mistress. That's what my HK-47 unit is good for

mcbarr
October 18th, 2007, 04:34 AM
HEEE!!!Fine. It's the same style.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/IF.png
DUDE I totally did this instead of my graphic design homework. *headdesk*

Suggestion: "Wrong JOE in charge"

Anuna
October 18th, 2007, 05:07 AM
Oh and all the gushing over Joe Flanigan wasn't?



It's not JF thread so I'd say you're right. I don't think I was gushing over him, I was discussing Sheppard and what i like or don't like about the character. But discussing what he (JF) said at the con wasn't I guess because it relates to many anti S4 issues. But I guess you can disagree with me on this.

I'm sorry I just don't feel comfortable with prison discussion. Because of my profession I know a lot about prisons... the idea just makes me shudder, that's all.

Reefgirl
October 18th, 2007, 05:23 AM
Why would I do such things, Mistress. That's what my HK-47 unit is good for

:lol:

Reefgirl
October 18th, 2007, 05:25 AM
I was talking about gushing in general Anuna not you in particular, I'm sure Sheppard has some good points somewhere, I just can't see them

mcbarr
October 18th, 2007, 05:31 AM
You know, Sheppard is not worse than Homer O'Neill Simpson. He's the anti-hero (no pun intended). Writing Sheppard like a typical military officer such as original O'Neil, Sumner, Caldwell etc. would get old quite fast (IMO, of course).

Anuna
October 18th, 2007, 05:36 AM
You know, Sheppard is not worse than Homer O'Neill Simpson. He's the anti-hero (no pun intended). Writing Sheppard like a typical military officer such as original O'Neil, Sumner, Caldwell etc. would get old quite fast (IMO, of course).

I agree, I'd hate to see the main character of a show written like original O'Neill. Shep has his highs and lows, it's okay if you guys don't like him - sometimes I wish he would just zip up - but prison talk is what got me a bit disturbed, that's all.

mcbarr
October 18th, 2007, 05:57 AM
5000+ posts

http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/weir/weiranime17.gif Congrats, Antis! http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/beckett/beckett_newanime003.gif

Anuna
October 18th, 2007, 06:07 AM
We rock! *puts on stinky socks mix and does the stinky socks dance*

Erised
October 18th, 2007, 06:10 AM
HEEE!!!Fine. It's the same style.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/waitingfordisaster/IF.png
DUDE I totally did this instead of my graphic design homework. *headdesk*



I also have filled up all my spaces and I have 110 userpics. Lj needs to give us more userpic space.

Umm.. boo to s4. LoL

oO nice. Can I use it in LJ? ;)
I assume I can? ;)
Will credit ;)

Anuna
October 18th, 2007, 06:19 AM
Hey! I asked for that one :P Do you mind if we both use it? :D

Erised
October 18th, 2007, 06:22 AM
Hey! I asked for that one :P Do you mind if we both use it? :D

oh dang didn't realize. Sorry.

Skydiver
October 18th, 2007, 06:31 AM
guys, this IS a pg forum, let's try to keep things circumspect please...and keep the topics appropriate

Anuna
October 18th, 2007, 06:36 AM
Okay Sky. ;)

nowvoyager908
October 18th, 2007, 06:41 AM
I agree, I'd hate to see the main character of a show written like original O'Neill. Shep has his highs and lows, it's okay if you guys don't like him - sometimes I wish he would just zip up - but prison talk is what got me a bit disturbed, that's all.

I have to agree. What makes Shep interesting to me is the fact that he is a bit of a rebel, with a checkered, mysterious past. A girl in every port, goes to the wall for his people, pushes the envelope with authority figures, etc., etc. He’s James Kirk, John Dekker and The Terminator all rolled into one. LOL. I would never, ever imagine applying real life military code to him or any other character on Atlantis. If this were a show about the military, than maybe; but a sci fi show about exploring life in another galaxy? I don’t know if that’s how SG1 was set up, but it just doesn’t fit with my idea of what the show should be about. :cool:

ShadowMaat
October 18th, 2007, 06:42 AM
I don't think JF being a PTB would help, anyway. He'd still have to fight all the other PTB over every decision (assuming he even wants to do the things we want him to) and it wouldn't change the fact that a lot of bad decisions have already been made. Carson is already gone. Weir is already gone. And if Joe became a PTB chances are that Shep would soon be gone, too, since PTB'ing is a pretty full-time job, same as acting. Trying to wear both hats would be exhausting. It might be okay for an ep or two, but a whole season? Or longer?

*shrug* Maybe there are examples of people starring in a show and producing it, but I'm not sure I'd want to wish that on JF.

As for the character of Shep, my initial apathy towards him changed to hatred and resentment as the show progressed. Between the Kirking, the inability to follow any order that he doesn't like and the fact that 90% of the stories seem to center around him and/or McKay, I've found very little to enjoy about his character. Snarking only takes you so far and unfortunately, like so much else about him, it, too, is overdone. IMO, of course.

Lots of people love him, though, and that's fine; he was designed to be lovable. I'm simply a contrary person. ;)

For me, Shep illustrates one of the biggest problems with TPTB: their inability to maintain balance. Shep is (again, IMO) an overdone character with too much of some things and not enough of others and he's not only overused but poorly used. There's a time and a place for everything and TPTB have no timing and lack a sense of direction, which is unfortunately reflected in the show. Shep disobeys orders, but not always at the right times or for the right reasons and the plans he implements instead aren't always superior to what he'd been told to do. Yes, eventually they work, but that's not quite the same thing.

Anyway, this is probably a bit like trying to beat back the tide with a stick- I know I won't convince the Shep supporters of my issues with the character, but I'm not really trying to, anyway. That's just how I see it. *shrug* Shep has (or possibly had at this point) a lot of potential to be a great character, but he's pretty much been squandered in favor of cheap laughs and Hollywood heroism. And I doubt having Joe as a PTB would improve things- it might even make things worse. If TPTB ran roughshod over the story Joe submitted last season, what makes you think they'd be any more inclined to listen to him if he was put in a position of power? They'd say, "Yeah, yeah, sure Joe, that's a great idea. But why don't we do this instead?" and do something completely different, possibly even pinning responsibility on Joe's shoulders. Not sure I'd care for that, myself.

mcbarr
October 18th, 2007, 06:47 AM
Hint: don't take this thread too seriously. ;)

Anuna
October 18th, 2007, 06:52 AM
For me, Shep illustrates one of the biggest problems with TPTB: their inability to maintain balance. Shep is (again, IMO) an overdone character with too much of some things and not enough of others and he's not only overused but poorly used. There's a time and a place for everything and TPTB have no timing and lack a sense of direction, which is unfortunately reflected in the show. Shep disobeys orders, but not always at the right times or for the right reasons and the plans he implements instead aren't always superior to what he'd been told to do. Yes, eventually they work, but that's not quite the same thing.

Anyway, this is probably a bit like trying to beat back the tide with a stick- I know I won't convince the Shep supporters of my issues with the character, but I'm not really trying to, anyway. That's just how I see it. *shrug* Shep has (or possibly had at this point) a lot of potential to be a great character, but he's pretty much been squandered in favor of cheap laughs and Hollywood heroism. And I doubt having Joe as a PTB would improve things- it might even make things worse. If TPTB ran roughshod over the story Joe submitted last season, what makes you think they'd be any more inclined to listen to him if he was put in a position of power? They'd say, "Yeah, yeah, sure Joe, that's a great idea. But why don't we do this instead?" and do something completely different, possibly even pinning responsibility on Joe's shoulders. Not sure I'd care for that, myself.

I think you nailed it. When I saw "The Rising" i was really interested to know more about Shep. there are some great Shep moments in first 3 seasons, but tptb use him poorly. *nods* He still has a great potential, but I fear that between CGI, McShep and kirking he will become even more irritating. And that is shame.

Skydiver
October 18th, 2007, 06:56 AM
in all things you need a balance

what frustrated many of us about s9 and 10? it was 80% Vaniel and the Bori. The other characters, including thier new leading male, were ignored most of the time.

Great if you like Vaniel and the Bori...not so great if you like something else, anything else.

Atlantis has some of the same issues. the focus on McShep, rodney ranting, Shep being the rogueish hero. Cool if you like it, not so cool if you'd like to see something else.

Over the years, prior to s9, SG1 had a balance. everyone would get thier time in the sun and would have their share of the eps.

and, while no one was happy all of the time, more were happy most of the time. it wasn't all or nothing...which is a lot of what we get now

mcbarr
October 18th, 2007, 07:01 AM
Bori? :beckettanime14:

Anuna
October 18th, 2007, 07:03 AM
Boring Ori = Bori?

mcbarr
October 18th, 2007, 07:06 AM
Boring Ori = Bori?

:hallowed:

Southern Red
October 18th, 2007, 07:09 AM
It's not JF thread so I'd say you're right. I don't think I was gushing over him, I was discussing Sheppard and what i like or don't like about the character. But discussing what he (JF) said at the con wasn't I guess because it relates to many anti S4 issues. But I guess you can disagree with me on this.

I'm sorry I just don't feel comfortable with prison discussion. Because of my profession I know a lot about prisons... the idea just makes me shudder, that's all.

I gushed. You say that like it's a bad thing. ;)

And the prison discussion was way too much.


I think you nailed it. When I saw "The Rising" i was really interested to know more about Shep. there are some great Shep moments in first 3 seasons, but tptb use him poorly. *nods* He still has a great potential, but I fear that between CGI, McShep and kirking he will become even more irritating. And that is shame.

That sums my feelings up nicely too. If I wanted to see a squared away military guy, I wouldn't be watching this show. There are all kinds in the military. Shep is not rare by any means.

However, his character has been badly used, underused and abused for 3+ years now. If he's going to be the hero, it's time they made him the hero. He should not be perfect. His flaws are what make him interesting. And I agree with JF that his character should not be overly emotional. Seeing him try to hold back his emotions is much more interesting than watching him sob into his pillow. The character was designed to be quirky. They told us right off the bat that he was prone to disobeying orders. Who can forget the last scene in Rising when he tells Weir. "You know I can get us into all kinds of trouble. Right?" That sets the scene for how his character is going to be played. Why now after 3+ years are we quibbling with that description? If he grows and matures too much and stops getting them into trouble, what then? Will we be reduced to watching Shep and Rodney do reports and play chess? Will we get to enjoy an episode that has Shep shining his brass while Ronon polishes his boots? McKay does KP. Stay tuned?

I don't see any real reason to change their whole concept of the show at this point...oh wait. Anyway, IMHO the McShep show has been a bit overused, but let's be frank, without the slash element it wouldn't be as big a deal. Whether you like McShep as BFF or the other BFF is irrelevant. The question is do we want it to go on and on in every show?

If you listen to the S3 commentaries, CGI seems to be the only reason for doing this show. LOL.

And kirking, I ranted on yesterday.

ToasterOnFire
October 18th, 2007, 08:28 AM
I think TPTB set up Shep to be the anti-hero with a mysterious, possibly tainted past, but over the seasons they never really went into what made him so mysterious and tainted. It's like they wanted to build the mystery or they didn't really have a good answer to his past, so it was largely ignored. And that has seriously weakened his character, IMO.


5000+ posts

http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/weir/weiranime17.gif Congrats, Antis! http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/beckett/beckett_newanime003.gif
Woot! :D Well, as woot! as one can be when a major fandom forum has such a large anti thread. That's never a good sign. :S

Vale_Sg1
October 18th, 2007, 08:36 AM
As for the character of Shep, my initial apathy towards him changed to hatred and resentment as the show progressed. Between the Kirking, the inability to follow any order that he doesn't like and the fact that 90% of the stories seem to center around him and/or McKay, I've found very little to enjoy about his character. Snarking only takes you so far and unfortunately, like so much else about him, it, too, is overdone. IMO, of course.

I wouldn't use the words hatred and resentment in my case, but even though I don't have anything against him, John was never my favorite character.

He's very similar to O'Neill in some departments, but I always adored Jack and honestly never found him as irritating as I sometimes find John. It could be the fact that while Jack was the lead character in the SG1, there was less of a hierarchy among the SG1 characters than in SGA.


Lots of people love him, though, and that's fine; he was designed to be lovable. I'm simply a contrary person. ;)

Make it two. I'm the kind of person that avoids what everybody else likes / does. If white is the color to wear this season, you'll probably see me in black.


For me, Shep illustrates one of the biggest problems with TPTB: their inability to maintain balance. Shep is (again, IMO) an overdone character with too much of some things and not enough of others and he's not only overused but poorly used. There's a time and a place for everything and TPTB have no timing and lack a sense of direction, which is unfortunately reflected in the show. Shep disobeys orders, but not always at the right times or for the right reasons and the plans he implements instead aren't always superior to what he'd been told to do. Yes, eventually they work, but that's not quite the same thing.

I think that's exactly the point. They've established some kind of formula with him (and with the Sheppard / McKay interaction) and they're using it over and over, and the good moments he has are promptly forgotten when the 'reset character developement' button is pushed at the end of each episode. Except for Ronon, it looks like the SGA characters are in a psychological loop.

All in all, I stick by my opinion: :sheppardanime23: = :valaanime04:


Anyway, this is probably a bit like trying to beat back the tide with a stick- I know I won't convince the Shep supporters of my issues with the character, but I'm not really trying to, anyway. That's just how I see it. *shrug* Shep has (or possibly had at this point) a lot of potential to be a great character, but he's pretty much been squandered in favor of cheap laughs and Hollywood heroism. And I doubt having Joe as a PTB would improve things- it might even make things worse. If TPTB ran roughshod over the story Joe submitted last season, what makes you think they'd be any more inclined to listen to him if he was put in a position of power? They'd say, "Yeah, yeah, sure Joe, that's a great idea. But why don't we do this instead?" and do something completely different, possibly even pinning responsibility on Joe's shoulders. Not sure I'd care for that, myself.

Maybe. Browder said once at a Farscape con that the SG1 ptb weren't as prone to accepting prompts from the actors as the FS writers were, but I suppose that if one of them were to be 'promoted' to ptb status things would be different.

The problem is, they aren't going to be promoting anyone, or hiring new writers (even though they'd need it) anytime soon, because they don't want anyone interfering in the close group they've established over the years.

Reefgirl
October 18th, 2007, 08:44 AM
Make it two. I'm the kind of person that avoids what everybody else likes / does. If white is the color to wear this season, you'll probably see me in black.
*Waves*
And another one here.

My liking for Sheppard dipped by the end of series 1 and grew into full blown lothing by the end of series 2, I don't like Weir or Rodney either. My favourite characters are Lorne and Zelenka

justhere1971
October 18th, 2007, 09:04 AM
I love Shep, Weir, Lorne, Caldwell, Zelenka - well everyone other than the new addition on Atlantis ...

Just had to throw it in there. *runs away*

Oh yes, Shep is my favoritest (yes that's not a real word). You could never tell could you? ;)

silkie
October 18th, 2007, 09:14 AM
Joe for PTB? Mallozzi will be deliriously happy... :D
On a serious note it could happen after all RDA was one of TPTB for 8 years and over the years he vetod several stupid ideas (mainly Coop ones)...

Vale_Sg1
October 18th, 2007, 09:20 AM
*Waves*
And another one here.

My liking for Sheppard dipped by the end of series 1 and grew into full blown lothing by the end of series 2, I don't like Weir or Rodney either. My favourite characters are Lorne and Zelenka

Weir was (still is - I live in Denial land) my favorite character, even though the writing for the character seriously slipped from the end of season 2, and Rodney, well, I love him most of the time (geek solidarity!! :daniel:).

And I had soft spot for Carson and Radek, too. And well, all the other characters actually, poor Peter Grodin included. I was so bummed when he died.

Kanetsidohi
October 18th, 2007, 03:24 PM
You know, Sheppard is not worse than Homer O'Neill Simpson. He's the anti-hero (no pun intended). Writing Sheppard like a typical military officer such as original O'Neil, Sumner, Caldwell etc. would get old quite fast (IMO, of course).

Yes, I like Sheppard just like he is.

My reaction to military people is very much like Teyla's in "Rising." Summer dismissed her as useless, and went against the "native" judgement because he knew better. If Summer had stopped for just one second and really paid attention to the people that lived there, he may be still alive.

But, of course, that would have ruined the plot. :D

Sheppard's not the prototype military man, neither was O'Neill and I love them for that, even General Hammond disobeyed orders, at least, once and put the lives of his friends before duty.

I also like Weir, my anti-feelings are for other reasons.