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The Signal
January 14th, 2007, 11:06 AM
Okay, so the news has broken that Weir will be reduced to recurring next season http://stargatesg1.com/MediaPlayer.aspx?contentItemId=213322

Before I go any further, I would like the mods to note that opinions against the norm are clearly unwelcome and are labelled as "trolling" in the Save Weir thread, so I think I have every right to start a thread where people won't get complained at and flamed for having the shear audacity to have an opinion.

Right, my thoughts. Face it, Weir hasn't exactly played a huge role in Atlantis recently, she is mostly there to send people off on missions, and discuss said missions when they are over. There is pretty much nothing going on with her at all. So to me, I really don't care if she's not around, no offence to Torri, but I just think that TPTB have underused her so much that its really not going to have a huge impact on the show IMO.

As for blaming TPTB, well, until you know the reasoning behind the change, any speculation is entirely baseless, this cannot be blamed on Jewel or on Amanda.

I for one will still be watching S4 as long as the quality remains consistant.

jenks
January 14th, 2007, 11:18 AM
Thank God someone has some common sense, green for you The Signal!

Personally I'm in favour of Weir leaving. I don't think she contributes anything positive to the show really apart from making mad decisions. Usually I'd blame it on the writing, but I really liked the character when she was played by the actress in Lost city so I'm not sure.

To me Weir was pretty tolerable in seasons 1 and 2 but this season she has really got under my skin, especially towards the begining of season 3. Some of her interactions with the IOA, Landry and especially Caldwell frankly, make her come across as a bit of a *****.

I wouldn't mind if she was kept on as recurring, but only if she was replaced as commander. She could always be in charge of MW/PG relations of something, I'm sure there is still a place for a diplomat, even in a place like Atlantis. I think she would be better off taking a Daniel sort of role in Atlantis rather than being the leader.

Another thing, am I the only one who finds the Campaign/Pro/Anti threads a little strange? They basically seem to be threads where freedom of speech has been discarded in favour of a place where only certain opinions are tolerated. Might just be me but it seems to really defeat the purpose of a forum.

The Signal
January 14th, 2007, 11:24 AM
She does seem to have gotten a little cocky recently, and she's certainly not the Weir we first saw in Lost City, she used to be a likable character, similar to pre-ascension Daniel, but that went out of the window quite fast.

As for the pro/anti etc threads, I stick to what I have always believed, its the Pro's that generally can't accept other people's opinions, the "Save [insert name]" are the same. It's just unfortunate, and like you say, it eliminates the purpose of a discussion forum.

Skydiver
January 14th, 2007, 12:08 PM
Ok guys, little ground rules.

Don't bash the actors.
Don't bash the other fans.

If this is to be a real discussion about whether or not it's 'good' to lose Weir, that's fine. but let's keep cracks about other fans out of it and keep the topic to whether or not Weir as recurring is good or bad.

kirmit
January 14th, 2007, 12:26 PM
I'd be happy if she was reduced to just a recurring role, I've never liked the character since Atlantis began, I did however like her in 'Lost City'. Nowadays whenever she comes on screen it just makes me cringe, the character is just plain annoying and her arrogance rivals and surpasses that of the ancients. Also everytime she doesn't get her own way she stamps her foot like a spoilt brat and tbh it's just hard to watch. I personally think less screen time might do the character some good, General Hammond never had as much screentime as her and we grew to love him as a leader, perhaps the less we see of her the better.

PG15
January 14th, 2007, 12:28 PM
I just want everyone to realize that Carson Beckett was "recurring" in Season 1, and he had more development then than he got in Season 2, when he was a regular!

So I don't think anything's really changed.

Mirel
January 14th, 2007, 12:42 PM
I'd love to have a military commander on atlantis. But we don't know what will happen to her, maybe she'll get back to earth, or kidnapped or something, boohoo, cry cry cry.

I have complete trust in the writers' decisions. :) (except for one thing, Ford must get back, he was more fun with Mckay and Sheppard than Weir with those 2 :p ).

jenks
January 14th, 2007, 12:58 PM
Don't bash the actors.


How do you define 'bash' though? What if someone doesn't like a cast members acting, are they allowed to say that they are a bad actor or is this not allowed?

Willow'sCat
January 14th, 2007, 12:59 PM
Okay, so the news has broken that Weir will be reduced to recurring next season http://stargatesg1.com/MediaPlayer.aspx?contentItemId=213322

Before I go any further, I would like the mods to note that opinions against the norm are clearly unwelcome and are labelled as "trolling" in the Save Weir thread, so I think I have every right to start a thread where people won't get complained at and flamed for having the shear audacity to have an opinion.

Right, my thoughts. Face it, Weir hasn't exactly played a huge role in Atlantis recently, she is mostly there to send people off on missions, and discuss said missions when they are over. There is pretty much nothing going on with her at all. So to me, I really don't care if she's not around, no offence to Torri, but I just think that TPTB have underused her so much that its really not going to have a huge impact on the show IMO.

As for blaming TPTB, well, until you know the reasoning behind the change, any speculation is entirely baseless, this cannot be blamed on Jewel or on Amanda.

I for one will still be watching S4 as long as the quality remains consistant.I agree with the take on Weir, she has always been *General Hammond* to me and this makes sense IMHO. I said it only a few days ago that it was odd to have Weir as the second lead when she isn't used and really there is NO use for her other then to wave them goodbye... I feel sad for Torri, but she is an actress and like all actors/actresses she knows that roles are never 100% guaranteed not to change.

I also agree blaming Jewel or even Amanda is just wrong, I may not like Carter crossing over, but I don't blame AT for it, I do however think TPTB are fair game.... :cool: :rolleyes: On this I will be thanking them for seeing the light IMHO.

prion
January 14th, 2007, 01:03 PM
I also agree blaming Jewel or even Amanda is just wrong, I may not like Carter crossing over, but I don't blame AT for it, I do however think TPTB are fair game.... :cool: :rolleyes: On this I will be thanking them for seeing the light IMHO.

I don't think anybody blames the actors. I sure don't. They're taking jobs. Or being forced out of jobs. It's the producers who make the decision that are at fault. They're the ones who go "let's get rid of this character." It's that simple. Of course, if they're not, they're free to come here and explain.

Jenner8675309
January 14th, 2007, 01:38 PM
While I am extremely upset we seem to be losing Beckett and do think there are waaaayyyyy too many cast changes all a once, I agree. Weir is my least favorite on the show and I've never been a big fan. She always seemed kind of monotone to me. I'll blame the writers though, as I have never seen her in anything else. It infuriates me when they make a female a leader and then make her ineffective. I would rather have an effective male leader than a female on who is ineffective just to be PC (this goes for Teyla too). While I do not think bringing AT on is the answer (and I do like her) I think this will create more problems. But Sam is a much stronger female role (even if she does need some work) and SGA needs it. But if AT is brought on to replace Weir it brings on more problems. Sam is not at all the right character to head a mission such as Atlantis. They would be better off bringing on a new character with a suitable background.

While I'm not happy with most of the changes, I'm ok with this one (re: Weir) for the most part.

Willow'sCat
January 14th, 2007, 01:48 PM
I would rather have an effective male leader than a female on who is ineffective just to be PC (this goes for Teyla too). Well I would prefer none of them be ineffective, but I understand what you are saying it just makes females look bad, like they can't lead or whatever.

While I'm not happy with most of the changes, I'm ok with this one (re: Weir) for the most part.I actually couldn't be happier about this, I do think all round this move is one of the smartest TPTB have come up with. I just hope they don't ruin it by messing everything else up. :cool: I would like a season 5 (well I think, wait and see hey?) ;)

theonebluegecko
January 14th, 2007, 02:10 PM
Truthfully, although I do not actually want Weir gone I can understand scaling back her role a bit. If you compare SG-1 with Atlantis, SG-1 has a fewer really significant characters (Those that are in every episode) mainly only the "Team" are always there. The leaders like Hammond and Landrey are only there in a good number of the episodes.

Atlantis on the other hand has really always had Weir in the episodes. Maybe there is one without her. I think that I am fine with a decision to scale back her role, it would make it fit the SG-1 pattern a bit more. And as long as she is there at time, when needed, I will be happy.

the old briar pipe
January 14th, 2007, 03:22 PM
Truthfully, although I do not actually want Weir gone I can understand scaling back her role a bit. If you compare SG-1 with Atlantis, SG-1 has a fewer really significant characters (Those that are in every episode) mainly only the "Team" are always there. The leaders like Hammond and Landrey are only there in a good number of the episodes.

Atlantis on the other hand has really always had Weir in the episodes. Maybe there is one without her. I think that I am fine with a decision to scale back her role, it would make it fit the SG-1 pattern a bit more. And as long as she is there at time, when needed, I will be happy.

Oddly, I actually like the SGA pattern better than the SG1 one. It made SGA work to create eps that weren't just the formulaic 'we went through the gate, we got into trouble, we came home' plot. I admit that that formula is probably easier to write. That doesn't make me like it more. ;)

What I will miss most is probably Elizabeth's role as sanity-check, but at least now they have an opportunity to use that time to develop Teyla. *pause* Okay, pretend I said that with a straight face. :D

Shonaille
January 14th, 2007, 03:44 PM
I'm sorry but this beyond awful, I feel so awful for Torri:(

prion
January 14th, 2007, 03:51 PM
I'm sorry but this beyond awful, I feel so awful for Torri:(

Yeah, I hope she gets another project which appreciates her more.

psychofilly
January 14th, 2007, 05:52 PM
Hmmm...

Last year I would have cheered the idea of Sam crossing over and Weir leaving, but with the exception of a couple of episodes, she's been much more enjoyable this year. There are times when I wondered how she could be this big shot negotiator and that I found her extremely arrogant, but they softened that later this season.

I still like that Sam is coming over, but I didn't realize she was getting so many episodes. Until now, anyway.

However, I don't think sweeping changes are a good idea. (Angel season five comes to mind. However, SGA isn't changing the formula, just half the cast). The addition of Ronon worked, but we had a chance to see and say goodbye to Ford and it wasn't a change of six actors (I'm counting the Tertiary characters too).

I've learned the hard way not to "trust" the show runners of any given show and I certaily don't expect them to cater to my specific needs, but this change is hitting so many people's peeves at once, that I am not sure if the show can survive what will surely be a hit to the ratings. I don't think the show runners are trying to sabatoge themselves. I feel they have realized and addressed some of the problems the show developed in Season two, and I was happy with the change.

So far, the characters they are replacing were the two I could grudgingly live without and if the story and character interaction is there, I'll continue to watch. But the story and the characterizations darn well better be excellent.

Iambob
January 14th, 2007, 07:02 PM
Thank God someone has some common sense, green for you The Signal!

Personally I'm in favour of Weir leaving. I don't think she contributes anything positive to the show really apart from making mad decisions. Usually I'd blame it on the writing, but I really liked the character when she was played by the actress in Lost city so I'm not sure.

To me Weir was pretty tolerable in seasons 1 and 2 but this season she has really got under my skin, especially towards the begining of season 3. Some of her interactions with the IOA, Landry and especially Caldwell frankly, make her come across as a bit of a *****.

I wouldn't mind if she was kept on as recurring, but only if she was replaced as commander. She could always be in charge of MW/PG relations of something, I'm sure there is still a place for a diplomat, even in a place like Atlantis. I think she would be better off taking a Daniel sort of role in Atlantis rather than being the leader.

Another thing, am I the only one who finds the Campaign/Pro/Anti threads a little strange? They basically seem to be threads where freedom of speech has been discarded in favour of a place where only certain opinions are tolerated. Might just be me but it seems to really defeat the purpose of a forum.

I completly agree with you on the campaign pro anti threads. i think they are pointless and just plain dumb. once the tptb make a decision it is usually almost completly set in place. also i cant seem to stand things like hate threads for characters, and also those shipper and thunker or whatever the hell threads that they are. i just dont see the point.

SallyLizzie
January 14th, 2007, 07:50 PM
I think that I am fine with a decision to scale back her role, it would make it fit the SG-1 pattern a bit more.
It's Stargate: Atlantis, not Stargate:SG1, which should make it about Atlantis (whereas SG1 was obviously about that team). The best episodes of SGA are those based in Atlantis, not the ones where the team are in the field, imo.

SGA is a spin-off; there's a difference between an evolution of a show and a replica of a show. Something you might not know by watching this franchise of late. :rolleyes:

Mitchell82
January 14th, 2007, 10:21 PM
I too was shocked when I saw how many eps AT was going to be in, untill now we only thought a few now it's 3/4 of the season. Now I personally have no objections to SG-1 members on Atlantis never have. I think Daniel would have ben a better choice however if AT is eventually going to replace Weir I think that wioll be interesting. I have always wanted her to have a command and this would be great for not only Carter but AT as well. No disrespect to Tori as I love her and Weir to death but she hasnt been as good in season three meaning she has already been bumped to recurring IMO. I still think she does a great job and I have no hatred to Jewel, or Amanda or even TPTB with the exception of Carson. I believe the show is still good and will continue to be so. All I'm going to do is sit back, wait, and enjoy the show. If I hate it I'll say so then but so far the changes are fine with me.

knowsfords
January 14th, 2007, 10:26 PM
I personally believe that it wont be Samantha Carter that AT will be playing, but it will be the whale Sam from Grace Under Pressure/Echoes.

Mitchell82
January 14th, 2007, 10:28 PM
I personally believe that it wont be Samantha Carter that AT will be playing, but it will be the whale Sam from Grace Under Pressure/Echoes.

Uh that makes no logical sense unless you were joking.

knowsfords
January 14th, 2007, 10:33 PM
Uh that makes no logical sense unless you were joking.

Why does it not make sense?

Mitchell82
January 14th, 2007, 10:41 PM
Why does it not make sense?

Beecause how could she play a whale?

Mitchell82
January 14th, 2007, 10:42 PM
It is awful. Someone with her ability shouldn't be cast aside like this. It's just insanity. Her character brings a human side to everything, along with Carson's. They're losing the heart of the series. It's just ... beyond stupid.

I agree on the Carson comment but we are not loosing Weir she is only now recurring.

starfox
January 14th, 2007, 10:45 PM
I like Weir, more this season (with the exception of "The Real World", which I simply didn't enjoy because of the plot, not because it was Weir-centric) than in others. I'd like an explanation of what "recurring" is going to mean in this case. How many episodes, and how big a part in those episodes? And is she going to remain in command of Atlantis? Because if she loses command, I'll be mighty pissed.


And yet I'm still less upset about this than I am about Carter's 14 episodes. Of course, that may be because Carter bores the hell out of me, but that's another story.

knowsfords
January 14th, 2007, 10:46 PM
Beecause how could she play a whale?

...because the device that translates whaleish (welsh ;p) into ancient also enables projection. When Sam appeared in GUP infront of mckay there's good chance it was actually the whale Sam impersonating Carter.

starfox
January 14th, 2007, 10:49 PM
...because the device that translates whaleish (welsh ;p) into ancient also enables projection. When Sam appeared in GUP infront of mckay there's good chance it was actually the whale Sam impersonating Carter.

Except that Brad Wright has already told us that Sam shows up on a ship.


So, it's the real Carter. Unfortunately.

knowsfords
January 14th, 2007, 10:54 PM
Except that Brad Wright has already told us that Sam shows up on a ship.


So, it's the real Carter. Unfortunately.

But we all know how TPTB carefully choose thier words.

Mitchell82
January 14th, 2007, 10:57 PM
But we all know how TPTB carefully choose thier words.

Yeah but if your hoping it isnt the real Carter then I'm affraid you willbe disapointed. I on the other hand love Carter and embrace her on SGA.

knowsfords
January 14th, 2007, 11:01 PM
Yeah but if your hoping it isnt the real Carter then I'm affraid you willbe disapointed. I on the other hand love Carter and embrace her on SGA.

I'm not hoping for anything :)

kandrea
January 14th, 2007, 11:31 PM
back to Weir, I actually quite like the Weir character--I think her character puts a less military emphasis on the missions--leave the military stuff to Sheppard and Cauldwell imho. I think she's the daniel of atlantis--the more softer, diplomatic, lets-try-not-to-go-overboard-with-the-bombs type of deal. If she goes, who's gonna command? Sheppard? I love Sheppard, but then it's the same format as SG1. That said, i do see that sometimes her character is a little flat, and would've like to seen more eps that deals with what goes on INSIDE the characters heads, angst, development, etc... and i guess the show is largely about fending off the bad guys... I will def miss Weir and Torri, and would prefer it not happen, but if the writers think it best--and maybe even Torri wants some time off--they prob have some reasons and feel it necessary for whatever direction the show is going. I thought they were right to chuck Ford and it turned out well imho! Gero, Wright, Cooper all seem to stick to the mantra 'change is good' so I'm gonna stick with that...for now!!

As for Sam crossing over...let's see how it goes.

andr3w_iii
January 15th, 2007, 12:03 AM
well she isnt leaving only getting cut back and it maybe to accommodate Sam coming over and that carson is leaving and jewel leaving.

on a note am not looking forward to seen Sam and Mckay bickering for 14episodes of season 4

FallenAngelII
January 15th, 2007, 12:53 AM
I personally believe that it wont be Samantha Carter that AT will be playing, but it will be the whale Sam from Grace Under Pressure/Echoes.
This is actually no less preposterous than the writers' logic of:
* Scantily clad bimbos = Good television
* All female extras should be young, supple, slim and good-looking
* A man using a mind-altering drug to, among other things, forces women who couldn't even stand him before he used the drug on them, to sleep with him could never ever be viewed as rape
* Carson as as a regular gets less screen-time than he did as a recurring character
* Removing (well, in Elizabeth's case, it's reducing) two characters from the show (killing one of them) and bringing in two new characters = Good TV
* Removing/Reducing two characters won't really hurt the show because bringing in actresses from two other shows will make the numbers add up and in the end, that's all that matters. Who cares about good TV?

Amanda Tapping returning to play, oh, the voice of Sam the Whale as translated by the Ancient computer might not be so far-fetched after all. Now that begs the question: Why would the whale (or hippoflagilus) be featured in 14 episodes? :P


Yeah but if your hoping it isnt the real Carter then I'm affraid you willbe disapointed. I on the other hand love Carter and embrace her on SGA.
Which makes the reduction of Elizabeth's role for her role to be expanded (to 14 episodes) OK? I love SG-1. I really do. Sam, well, Sam's OK (she was great, now she's just OK. She became great again in "The Quest"). But I dislike the way they've handled her crossing over.

Agent_Dark
January 15th, 2007, 04:23 AM
Crossposted again, maybe here it will get some discussion? lol

I'm not surprised by the Weir thing or the Carson thing. Simple fact is that there's not much room for the 'Base CO' and 'Medical Doctor' roles in the Stargate format. Even though Hammond/Don S. Davis was a principal character/actor for the 7 years he was on, he never really did anything per episode. His role was to brief SG1/The Audience about what the episode was about and give them the all clear. Janet had always been a recurring character too.

I think that's evident in how little Weir gets to do in the show. It always feels forced to me when they show her offworld because the simple fact is that it's not her job. Her job is to run Atlantis, which means she needs to be at Atlantis, not running around fighting monsters in time dilation fields. But they seem reluctant to base too many episodes in Atlantis itself, which means that for alot of episodes Weir has basically nothing to do other than say 'Good luck John'. It's a pity because I like Weir/Torri too, but I think it's the simple reality of how the show works.

I actually wonder if this is even going to mean 'less' Weir anyway... Think about it - when the team goes off-world for a mission there's barely any Weir in the episode anyway. It's only when they do the few Atlantis based episodes in the season that Weir has something prominent to do. So she will become a recurring character and the episodes that she had barely anything to do she wont be in, but she will continue to be in the episodes that she usually has a big role to play... Overall loss negligible?

FallenAngelII
January 15th, 2007, 04:29 AM
While Sam has room to grow, what the heck can Jewel Staite's character do that Carson's couldn't? She'll be a doctor as well. Either she'll be some prodigy who actually takes over as the medial chief of staff or she'll just be a run-of-the-mill doctor.

Either way, there's not a damn thing she can do that Carson couldn't except entice drooling males to watch Stargate Atlantis.

ShadowMaat
January 15th, 2007, 04:51 AM
Weir may not have much to do on the show and she may be hampered by the niche TPTB have stuffed her in, but whose fault is that?

Atlantis was supposed to be this fresh new take on the SG-verse. All the interviews hyped how it was going to be "different" and how it was going to be a "non-military" perspective and other misleading comments, but in the end it's still pretty much the same formula as SG-1 and if it's too difficult to find stuff for a character to do it's TPTB's fault for not going the extra mile to MAKE Atlantis different and to make characters like Weir and Carson more involved than their SG-1 counterparts were.

I've had a LOT of issues with Weir's leadership (I even started a thread about it), particularly in the past season or so, but I don't think that reducing her role is going to accomplish anything; it won't fix the problems that already exist on the show (my opinion, of course). Too often TPTB seem more interested in sweeping "failed" characters under the carpet than in bothering to develop them.

I've seen other people claim that Weir IS developed, but I tend to disagree and further I think her character is too inconsistently written to ever be effective, but dumping her to recurring status won't magically make her better and whoever steps in to fill her shoes isn't necessarily going to be an improvement. In fact, I think there's a good chance that her "replacement" will be even worse. TPTB don't have a good history in situations like this and even if she's replaced with a known character (and I'm not convinced yet that it'll necessarily be Sam) it doesn't follow that it'll be a smooth fit.

GateLadyM
January 15th, 2007, 04:53 AM
. . . what the heck can Jewel Staite's character do that Carson's couldn't? She'll be a doctor as well. Either she'll be some prodigy who actually takes over as the medial chief of staff or she'll just be a run-of-the-mill doctor.

Jewel is younger and has breasts. That's what is important, don't ya know. ;)

I can't believe how far downhill this show has slid in such a short amount of time.

The Ori
January 15th, 2007, 04:56 AM
No nes bshing the actors or actresses were just bashing the characters!!

And I'm not too sure about this wier situation, I kind of liked her, and she was kinda hot!! But listening to all this is makin me sad!!

psychofilly
January 15th, 2007, 05:05 AM
While I don't think Sam will be assuming command of Atlantis (I think she'll show up on the Dedalus) I've always thought she'd be a logical choice to do so if they ever got rid of Weir. One she's female, so we aren't reverting back to the "man" being in charge. Two, if she were to quit the military (or retire) and the IOA were to pick her, she'd be the only other female that I know of that has both scientific and military background. She'd have the scientists backs, and yet at the same time, she's always been a fine officer in her own right, and it would be interesting to see where she and Shep would mesh... and where they wouldn't.

"Demoting" Torri could have a good effect in that she only is brought in when her story will count for something, as opposed to being the Hammond. Hammond had a wonderful grounding effect on the show that Weir has never seemed to manage, even with her expanded screen time, but if she's brought in on more focused episodes, maybe she will be allowed to use her vaunted mad diplomatic skillz that we never really get to see.

Personally I don't think they are going to pull Weir off of command, and I think that Sam will serve a similar (if expanded) roll as Caldwell, backing up the team/city when it's in trouble and assisting with exploration and experimentation.

As long as they don't bring Sam over at the expense of McKay's growth and characterization, then I'll propbably be okay with whatever they have planned for her.

The real thing I worry about is Jewel's role. She is young for a doctor, even if she plays older than her RL age. I'm worried that she'll become the resident Mary-Sue slash romantic interest du jor.

I like Weir, but I don't really think she's ever contributed to the show in the way that she could have/should have. If done right, we won't miss her because she'll still be around, and we'll get quality characterization instead of just face time, because hopefully, the PTB's will have to put a little more thought into her appearances. Just my opinion, of course.

I'm not going to jump ship, until I actually see the ship going down. After a second season slump, I'm really enjoying the heck out of the show again, and that buys the PTB's enough trust to see how they handle all the changes. If they let me down, then hey, that's what the remote is for.

FallenAngelII
January 15th, 2007, 06:24 AM
People keep saying "Demoting Weir would be a solution". No it wouldn't. That would mean that Atlantis would need another leader! Either another regular or another heavily recurring character!

SGFerrit
January 15th, 2007, 06:45 AM
Just because she is going to be recurring doesn't mean she won't be head of the expedition anymore.

ShadowMaat
January 15th, 2007, 06:49 AM
Just because she is going to be recurring doesn't mean she won't be head of the expedition anymore.

I think what has people nervous is that "recurring" tends to be synonymous with "gone" in TPTB lingo. Ford went to "recurring" and was only seen a few more times before disappearing entirely (and with a chance that he may even be dead). Carson is being listed as "recurring" but rumor has it he could be killed.

Yes, "recurring" could mean she's almost as active as ever, but it could also mean that she'll only appear a couple of times and then never again.

jenks
January 15th, 2007, 06:52 AM
People keep saying "Demoting Weir would be a solution". No it wouldn't. That would mean that Atlantis would need another leader! Either another regular or another heavily recurring character!

Solution? I think the solution would be to get rid of her all together!

Col.Foley
January 15th, 2007, 06:53 AM
Okay, so the news has broken that Weir will be reduced to recurring next season http://stargatesg1.com/MediaPlayer.aspx?contentItemId=213322

Before I go any further, I would like the mods to note that opinions against the norm are clearly unwelcome and are labelled as "trolling" in the Save Weir thread, so I think I have every right to start a thread where people won't get complained at and flamed for having the shear audacity to have an opinion.

Right, my thoughts. Face it, Weir hasn't exactly played a huge role in Atlantis recently, she is mostly there to send people off on missions, and discuss said missions when they are over. There is pretty much nothing going on with her at all. So to me, I really don't care if she's not around, no offence to Torri, but I just think that TPTB have underused her so much that its really not going to have a huge impact on the show IMO.

As for blaming TPTB, well, until you know the reasoning behind the change, any speculation is entirely baseless, this cannot be blamed on Jewel or on Amanda.

I for one will still be watching S4 as long as the quality remains consistant.
OK, that I agree with. We can't blame Jewel or Amanda, but still. And I also agree we can'tblame tptb until we know the reasoning behind this change, absouloutly not. We can't just assume that it is entirely tptb descsion. But, I am also of the opinion, that no matter who's fault this is, whether its Torri's, tptb, or anyone else's, it still does not make any sense to me.

rarocks24
January 15th, 2007, 06:58 AM
Solution? I think the solution would be to get rid of her all together!

I actually disagree. I think Weir is the perfect person for the job of Atlantis. She has been shown to make tough decisions on more than one occasion that has saved both Atlantis and Earth. So why faze out a good character? I can understand taking her to recurring (it's okay by me), but to do away with her?

jenks
January 15th, 2007, 07:04 AM
I actually disagree. I think Weir is the perfect person for the job of Atlantis. She has been shown to make tough decisions on more than one occasion that has saved both Atlantis and Earth. So why faze out a good character? I can understand taking her to recurring (it's okay by me), but to do away with her?

Just my preference, I'm not very fond of her at all ;)

the old briar pipe
January 15th, 2007, 07:25 AM
This is actually no less preposterous than the writers' logic of:
* Scantily clad bimbos = Good television
* All female extras should be young, supple, slim and good-looking

Heh. You really have a problem with this, don't you?

...Actually, so do I, come to think of it. But I've become so inured that it hardly even registers. :o

Re: Jewel, though, she is waaaaay more than a pretty face. She is an excellent actress and, if they're going to give her the same cr***y lines they gave the other two lead women, she's going to need every ounce of that skill. I don't envy her at all.

ShadowMaat
January 15th, 2007, 07:29 AM
Re: Jewel, though, she is waaaaay more than a pretty face.
Well, that's one of the issues, isn't it? It doesn't matter how talented an actress may be when the only "asset" the writers appear to be interested in is her chest size. She's going to be used as a decoration, not a character.

Beauregard Janglez
January 15th, 2007, 07:32 AM
This is absolutely fantastic news. Hopefully it IS the first step to Dr. Weir being replaced. I am so pleased with this news that I registered solely to post this.

For a little background I will say that i am a huge SG-1 fan but not as big an Atlantis fan. in large part this is due to the Weir character (and the bad macguyver clone that is shepherd). One thing that has always separated Stargate from other sci-fi shows is the way it is somewhat based on reality. The characters on the whole have been well written and their personalities in part conform to the type of people they are supposed to be (in part this is probably due to the way the creators have worked with the military). Special forces guys are a bit different.

Which brings me to Weir. Her character is one of the worst written characters in all of television (and that is a pretty high bar to pass). She acts nothing like a diplomat, would be an absolutely horrendous negotiator (whatever that is) [there is no chance in hell that that character would be able to find a political solution to western sahara], and is the furthest thing from an Ambassador (the rank one would have to obtain to play that role) one can possibly be. This has nothing to do with the character being a female lead. It has to do with Hollywood being absolutely tone deaf on writing State Dept people. I have known quite a few high ranking female diplomats and not a single one of them is anything close to approaching the touchy feely new age californian that weir is. Weir is a bad stereotype that brings down the quality of the show. I dont know whether to blame the acting or the writing (my guess is both) but that character single handidly makes Atlantis less enjoyable to me.

In short keep Atlantis under civilian control but replace Weir with a competent diplomat at an appropriate rank (make the character somewhat realistic). with sg-1 being cancelled it is imperative that Atlantis be brought to a higher level of quality. rant over.

psychofilly
January 15th, 2007, 07:37 AM
Yeppers, I'm with those that don't automatically assume recurring means "demoted" and as yet, we don't have a clue why they are doing it and how it will fit in to the ongoing arcs. My guess is money, because money is always the bottom line, but Torri could be unhappy or need some personal time, or they could have something really cool in store, or it could be crappy. All I'm saying is that I am not going to prejudge until I see how it plays out. If it's craptastic, then I'll complain. If it's pretty good, then yay.

sgeureka
January 15th, 2007, 07:58 AM
I can't say I care either way. Of course I was a little shocked/surprised to hear TH leaving the main cast. I've watched the interview, and from a fan perspective I'd say it's strange that TPTB are so enthusiastic about the cast changes.

On the other hand, from a creative standpoint, I completely understand their approach. Weir was one of the characters (along with Teyla) who has always been underused on the show. Most attempts to include her "better" in the stories felt forced from a story point of view. She's not there to risk her life - she's on Atlantis to order other people to risk their lives. If she's too stupid to get kidnapped/killed/whatever, Weir should reconsider working there. (Or can you imagine happening that to Hammond over and over? He'd have been fired immediately.) And writing stories for Weir just so that TH can flex her acting muscles is both very difficult to write and work in in a reasonable way. Unfortunately, I guess Stargate's TPTB do not have what it takes to do that. Even if they had, that would change the dynamics of the show completely (i.e. no longer have an action/scifi adventure but for example romantic *bleep* or dystopia.)

And that's also where the business (that's what TV shows are) standpoint comes in. Why keep a character (and pay an actor) that doesn't serve the greater point of the show? It'd just be a nuisance to the actor and the writers.

Sorry to all the people who actually care about certain characters, but to tell from another show I watch (LOST): never get attached too much on any character. Because if that character leaves, your whole judgment of the show will be clouded by irrational feelings, although the cast changes may actually help to make the show better. (If that'll be the case with Atlantis, I can't say - and I won't make predictions.)


Another thing, am I the only one who finds the Campaign/Pro/Anti threads a little strange? They basically seem to be threads where freedom of speech has been discarded in favour of a place where only certain opinions are tolerated. Might just be me but it seems to really defeat the purpose of a forum.Well, in real life you also choose who you're talking to. I wouldn't want a stranger with "strange" opinions to intrude into my little discussion because it's just annoying. The only way to keep the online people separate is unfortunately to separate the way discussions take place - pro, anti, campaign, news - and either category can be fluff, emotional, rational, or just plain informative. So it's a good thing.

vaberella
January 15th, 2007, 08:03 AM
Yeppers, I'm with those that don't automatically assume recurring means "demoted" and as yet, we don't have a clue why they are doing it and how it will fit in to the ongoing arcs. My guess is money, because money is always the bottom line, but Torri could be unhappy or need some personal time, or they could have something really cool in store, or it could be crappy. All I'm saying is that I am not going to prejudge until I see how it plays out. If it's craptastic, then I'll complain. If it's pretty good, then yay.


Ah so there is a thread for free discussion on this topic...cool!!

You're completely right...I think there is a lot of assumptions going around, but that's normal for this board to be on the rampage on assumptions. Without word from the actress herself, we really don't know anything. I'll wait until what I see, with little presupposing; then if it's a problem after the fact then I'll be upset.

Weir was never portrayed as the Janeway of the show unfortunately and thus that fact, the show really doesn't revolve around her or what she does, except for minutely. So far some of the moments I've seen, I've been like...'This is sooooo not good!!', of course not say I'd want her out. There are limited females as is, and I stand by the ladies of anything first, that being the case i was hoping for growth in both female characters, admittedly they gave me some of Teyla---going from outsider to insider of the Atlantis ex. I get Weir pretty much stagnant just more troubled, while there are people who do not want to see bureacratic non-sense I personally do; if only to see Weir exercising her position.

I think if they had utilized her presence in such fashions as setting up coalitions, creating a strong military contingent within the PG with other leaders that the teams have brought into alliance. Utilizing the weaponry and expertise and seeing Weir oversee, besides just the traveling over Atlantis.

A great example is to see her and possibly Teyla (if she's not on a mission) sitting down in a conference fostering trade and mutual talks of movement not only in including others but also the fight against the wraith it would be wicked. To see her at least one time in her life be interupted not from playing solitaire or having a talk with Zelenka, but actually interrupted from having a conference with the other leaders we saw like Ladon (since he's a friend of sorts) the guy from Inferno, possibly even if they lied to the lady from the Brotherhood, but keeping her close with other plans rather than wanting ZPM, or even her with those twits from The Tower (they had way too many drones and McKay could probably awaken the puddle jumper).

Unfortunately there was none of that, and I always felt she was either saying the obvious or put in as filler, this goes for Teyla's portrayal as well. At this point I think they have a chance to bring her in for seriously memorable moments...like she was able to use her skill accurately in Common Ground, which she was commendable---even if it was a supposedly John ep (I completely roll my eyes at that). I see labeling it as a demotion, but it's more along the lines as giving her serious diplomatic substance and control, and maybe developing her on a slow front rather than in your face--while she's sort of puppeteered along side the guys. But unfortunately and fortunately depending on your take--it was more so McShep.

Not to mention I see the possibility this is Carter connectd and if that's the case I'm not happy about it, but I'll give it a chance. I do see Carter more along the lines as Caldwell and if that's the case, keep her that way, even though I'll have to stomach 14 eps of that woman (for all Carter fans, I may seem a hater but everyone I know loves the woman--except me; don't take it personal---it's really the Mckay/Sam portrayal that bugs me!! Not the character herself.)

Quinn Mallory
January 15th, 2007, 08:06 AM
I like both Weir (and Torri's portrayal of her) so I hope she'll be around just as much as Zelenka, etc. I hope the "demotion" to just recurring is only a means for SGA to not have to worry about making Weir-centered episodes and not a more drastic change in the Atlantis command structure.

Anyhow, it's probably good to keep an open mind about this until more info are revealed (and maybe until we have some idea just how this S3 finale plays out).

jenks
January 15th, 2007, 08:07 AM
Well, in real life you also choose who you're talking to. I wouldn't want a stranger with "strange" opinions to intrude into my little discussion because it's just annoying. The only way to keep the online people separate is unfortunately to separate the way discussions take place - pro, anti, campaign, news - and either category can be fluff, emotional, rational, or just plain informative. So it's a good thing.

So you only speak to people with similar opinions to you? Weird...

Sweetsong
January 15th, 2007, 08:12 AM
Personally I don't think they are going to pull Weir off of command, and I think that Sam will serve a similar (if expanded) roll as Caldwell, backing up the team/city when it's in trouble and assisting with exploration and experimentation.

Well what if they put Sam on Shepards team, sort of make her a 5th wheel the way Vala was on SG-1? That'd be scary, heh.

vaberella
January 15th, 2007, 08:15 AM
Originally Posted by jenks
Another thing, am I the only one who finds the Campaign/Pro/Anti threads a little strange? They basically seem to be threads where freedom of speech has been discarded in favour of a place where only certain opinions are tolerated. Might just be me but it seems to really defeat the purpose of a forum.
Well, in real life you also choose who you're talking to. I wouldn't want a stranger with "strange" opinions to intrude into my little discussion because it's just annoying. The only way to keep the online people separate is unfortunately to separate the way discussions take place - pro, anti, campaign, news - and either category can be fluff, emotional, rational, or just plain informative. So it's a good thing.

Sounds like the reason why "separate but equal" was enacted in America. Which is again not freedom of speech, but a form of control over the masses and diverging opinions. And when the title was different anyone could share an opinion, which was the case; but whatever!!:)

ShadowMaat
January 15th, 2007, 08:15 AM
The reason pro and anti threads exist is because some people can't accept that other people have different opinions and they'll hammer and hammer and hammer and HAMMER at people, questioning WHY they think something, how could they POSSIBLY think something, don't they realize how WRONG they are because this other opinion is so obviously "right" and WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?? that it soon ceases to be a discussion and becomes an "us" vs. "them" war with people constantly defending their own opinions instead of by-gods DISCUSSING anything. There are even some who are so hateful and antagonistic as to deliberately bait such people into arguments for the sheer sport of watching folks get upset. Even dedicated threads can't stop them, but at least it gives the mods just cause to do something about it.

Yes, having both sides meet to chat about their differences is a nice experience, too, but there are too many trolls hardcore fans who refuse to tolerate anyone disagreeing with them that it makes such "neutral" ground difficult to maintain. Too many attacks, not enough discussion.

vaberella
January 15th, 2007, 08:16 AM
Well what if they put Sam on Shepards team, sort of make her a 5th wheel the way Vala was on SG-1? That'd be scary, heh.

Oh *insert diety* don't mention that...I could so see this turning into the Sam/McKay drama...and then I would switch the channel with a scathing letter to TPTB!

A lot of people seem to think it will be Sam/John/Rodney, I definitely see it all about Sam/Rodney which scares the daylights out of me, but let me stop presupposing on this, I'll give it a chance. *croses fingers, and tapping heels* Please let her be like Caldwell, please let her be like Caldwell, please let her be like Caldwell....

vaberella
January 15th, 2007, 08:30 AM
The reason pro and anti threads exist is because some people can't accept that other people have different opinions and they'll hammer and hammer and hammer and HAMMER at people, questioning WHY they think something, how could they POSSIBLY think something, don't they realize how WRONG they are because this other opinion is so obviously "right" and WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?? that it soon ceases to be a discussion and becomes an "us" vs. "them" war with people constantly defending their own opinions instead of by-gods DISCUSSING anything. There are even some who are so hateful and antagonistic as to deliberately bait such people into arguments for the sheer sport of watching folks get upset. Even dedicated threads can't stop them, but at least it gives the mods just cause to do something about it.

Yes, having both sides meet to chat about their differences is a nice experience, too, but there are too many trolls hardcore fans who refuse to tolerate anyone disagreeing with them that it makes such "neutral" ground difficult to maintain. Too many attacks, not enough discussion.


The whole point of a discussion or even a healthy debate is to have your reason and be able to defend your stance, or express it in a logical manner so people can understand. Sure if you both agree then there is no real discussion, because you have the same ideas. But if you have different and you're called on it, you have to defend; I don't see how that's a problem. A healthy discussion and especially if you disagree is to express reasons why or why not---we're all taught this in English 101, or pretty much any class you take except for Math.

Another reason is that people just can't understand that one won't change the mind of others--and accepting is not enough; and there's never conceding because that would be like losing...which people can't have. (I really need to keep the eyeroll icon close!:)
Disclaimer: Eyeroll, is not to anyone in paticular but to the idea of people not being able to accept that other's are different and always will be!!)

Pitry
January 15th, 2007, 08:41 AM
Okay, I'll finally pick the glove :)


Crossposted again, maybe here it will get some discussion? lol

I'm not surprised by the Weir thing or the Carson thing. Simple fact is that there's not much room for the 'Base CO' and 'Medical Doctor' roles in the Stargate format. Even though Hammond/Don S. Davis was a principal character/actor for the 7 years he was on, he never really did anything per episode. His role was to brief SG1/The Audience about what the episode was about and give them the all clear. Janet had always been a recurring character too.

True, base commander had never been the centre of hte plot - but all three SGC commanders had been regulars on the show, DSD, RD and now Beau Bridges, none of them have ever been reduced to recurring.
Also, Weir has had quite a larger part than either DSD or BB, in all three seasobn. True, there are enough episodes where she just sits there, says a coulpe of commands, shows concern for the team and that's it - but TBH, Teyla and Ronon aren't in a much better position - actually, come season 3, they both had quite less to do than Weir had. Her role isn't small because she's base commander - it has the potential - and at times actualy is - much bigger and more iportant than that. She actually go a lot more character development in these three years, I feel, than Hammond in 7.


I think that's evident in how little Weir gets to do in the show. It always feels forced to me when they show her offworld because the simple fact is that it's not her job. Her job is to run Atlantis, which means she needs to be at Atlantis, not running around fighting monsters in time dilation fields. But they seem reluctant to base too many episodes in Atlantis itself, which means that for alot of episodes Weir has basically nothing to do other than say 'Good luck John'. It's a pity because I like Weir/Torri too, but I think it's the simple reality of how the show works.

Again, I disagree. She's had a major role in every episode that took place on Atlatis, not off world - and htere have been quite a number of thsoe lately. She feels forced into the story when she's got a 2 minute scene in order to show her in the episode, but the number of these episodes has ben decreasing, not increasing.


I actually wonder if this is even going to mean 'less' Weir anyway... Think about it - when the team goes off-world for a mission there's barely any Weir in the episode anyway. It's only when they do the few Atlantis based episodes in the season that Weir has something prominent to do. So she will become a recurring character and the episodes that she had barely anything to do she wont be in, but she will continue to be in the episodes that she usually has a big role to play... Overall loss negligible?

I wish I could believe that - but from BW's words, it sounds to me as if she's going to be there til Carter comes, and then she's not going to be there anymore. "She'll come back for a while" - that sounds - again, to me - as if the unspoken continuation is "and then she will be gone".

SallyLizzie
January 15th, 2007, 09:20 AM
I wish I could believe that - but from BW's words, it sounds to me as if she's going to be there til Carter comes, and then she's not going to be there anymore. "She'll come back for a while" - that sounds - again, to me - as if the unspoken continuation is "and then she will be gone".
Right, wasn't the quote: "Be recurring for a period of time"? Meaning, recurring and then back FT, or recurring and then gone altogether?

Hatcheter
January 15th, 2007, 10:16 AM
This is actually no less preposterous than the writers' logic of:
* Scantily clad bimbos = Good television
* All female extras should be young, supple, slim and good-looking
* A man using a mind-altering drug to, among other things, forces women who couldn't even stand him before he used the drug on them, to sleep with him could never ever be viewed as rape
* Carson as as a regular gets less screen-time than he did as a recurring character
* Removing (well, in Elizabeth's case, it's reducing) two characters from the show (killing one of them) and bringing in two new characters = Good TV
* Removing/Reducing two characters won't really hurt the show because bringing in actresses from two other shows will make the numbers add up and in the end, that's all that matters. Who cares about good TV?

Well, most of those things have worked for 24. ;)

I like the Weir character. I think Torri is a good actor, and that she has done well with the limited time she gets. Even so, if this leads to exciting, intriguing storylines, I'm all for it.

I love 24, and even love the revolving door of supporting cast for Jack Bauer. I'd say McKay and Sheppard are Atlantis' core characters, and everyone else can be replaced.

Maybe even Sheppard.

FoolishPleasure
January 15th, 2007, 10:20 AM
Oh *insert diety* don't mention that...I could so see this turning into the Sam/McKay drama...and then I would switch the channel with a scathing letter to TPTB!

A lot of people seem to think it will be Sam/John/Rodney, I definitely see it all about Sam/Rodney which scares the daylights out of me, but let me stop presupposing on this, I'll give it a chance. *croses fingers, and tapping heels* Please let her be like Caldwell, please let her be like Caldwell, please let her be like Caldwell....

Carter is first a scientist, so my worry is that she will actually be replacing Zelenka more than Weir. Carter and Rodney are both the "technobabble" experts on their respective shows and putting them together is a strange combination, not to mention a little of those two bickering goes a long way.

Another question is whether or not Torri will remain in the main credits. TPTB always refer to her as the "Hammond of SGA" yet Don Davis (and currently Beau Bridges) are in the main credits even though they were/are recurring, assuming that Torri as "recurring" is more than one or two episodes.

Caldwell's 2IC
January 15th, 2007, 02:04 PM
Well, most of those things have worked for 24. ;)

I like the Weir character. I think Torri is a good actor, and that she has done well with the limited time she gets. Even so, if this leads to exciting, intriguing storylines, I'm all for it.

I love 24, and even love the revolving door of supporting cast for Jack Bauer. I'd say McKay and Sheppard are Atlantis' core characters, and everyone else can be replaced.

Maybe even Sheppard.

Well, I hate "24". :mckay:

I Like Elizabeth Weir :) so I don't want Carter to replace her. The show was great to me the way it was, so why mess up with it ??? I want Weir and Beckett in Atlantis. And Caldwell too for that matter.;)

Agent_Dark
January 15th, 2007, 03:15 PM
Okay, I'll finally pick the glove :)



True, base commander had never been the centre of hte plot - but all three SGC commanders had been regulars on the show, DSD, RD and now Beau Bridges, none of them have ever been reduced to recurring.
Also, Weir has had quite a larger part than either DSD or BB, in all three seasobn. True, there are enough episodes where she just sits there, says a coulpe of commands, shows concern for the team and that's it - but TBH, Teyla and Ronon aren't in a much better position - actually, come season 3, they both had quite less to do than Weir had. Her role isn't small because she's base commander - it has the potential - and at times actualy is - much bigger and more iportant than that. She actually go a lot more character development in these three years, I feel, than Hammond in 7.
True, but SG1 always had a smaller cast ensemble than Atlantis. With that many characters on Atlantis, it seems to me as if they are trying to include Weir and Beckett in the stories simply because they are main characters and they have to be there. Obviously they went wrong somewhere with Weir/Atlantis because she was meant to be the driving force behind the expedition. But unfortunately, due to the way they are telling their stories, she's become anything but.




Again, I disagree. She's had a major role in every episode that took place on Atlatis, not off world - and htere have been quite a number of thsoe lately. She feels forced into the story when she's got a 2 minute scene in order to show her in the episode, but the number of these episodes has ben decreasing, not increasing.
Going by Season 2, since I haven't seen all of Season 3 yet, I can't really recall any episode where she played a significant part (Long Goodbye doesn't really count, since it wasn't actually Weir for most part of that episode). Yet I can recall numerous times where she (and Beckett) were off-world gallivanting around with Shep and the team. Why do the Leader of the Base (an important person, someone who can't be risked) and the CMO/Chief Surgeon (again, an important/valuable person to Atlantis) go off into a time dilation field on a rescue mission?



I wish I could believe that - but from BW's words, it sounds to me as if she's going to be there til Carter comes, and then she's not going to be there anymore. "She'll come back for a while" - that sounds - again, to me - as if the unspoken continuation is "and then she will be gone".
Actually... spoilers for First Strike (S3 finale)
from what I gather, why Weir won't be around as much will be revealed in First Strike. While I'm not sure it will be death, considering they've said she's not going to be killed off, it does sound like she's in mortal jeopardy

PG15
January 15th, 2007, 04:01 PM
Actually... spoilers for First Strike (S3 finale)
from what I gather, why Weir won't be around as much will be revealed in First Strike. While I'm not sure it will be death, considering they've said she's not going to be killed off, it does sound like she's in mortal jeopardy

So was pretty much everyone in Siege Part 2, and McKay and Ronan in Allies It doesn't really mean anything.

Agent_Dark
January 15th, 2007, 04:04 PM
So was pretty much everyone in Siege Part 2, and McKay and Ronan in Allies It doesn't really mean anything.
Mmm, yeah but I'm talking actual real physical jeopardy. Not 'omg are the Wraith going to kill them???'. Maybe think cliffhanger ending of BSG s1 kind of jeopardy? At least that's my impression from what I've read

PG15
January 15th, 2007, 04:05 PM
I know what happens to her; I myself posted the highlights from the interview over in the News forum. :p

And it still doesn't mean anything until we get a context for what happens.

kymeric
January 15th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Its called Stargate: Atlantis, not Stargate: Wier/Carson. I for one will be tuning in and purchasing DVDs for as long as theyre producing them.

Hyperspace
January 15th, 2007, 04:49 PM
Okay, I'll finally pick the glove :)



True, base commander had never been the centre of hte plot - but all three SGC commanders had been regulars on the show, DSD, RD and now Beau Bridges, none of them have ever been reduced to recurring.
Also, Weir has had quite a larger part than either DSD or BB, in all three seasobn. True, there are enough episodes where she just sits there, says a coulpe of commands, shows concern for the team and that's it - but TBH, Teyla and Ronon aren't in a much better position - actually, come season 3, they both had quite less to do than Weir had. Her role isn't small because she's base commander - it has the potential - and at times actualy is - much bigger and more iportant than that. She actually go a lot more character development in these three years, I feel, than Hammond in 7.



Again, I disagree. She's had a major role in every episode that took place on Atlatis, not off world - and htere have been quite a number of thsoe lately. She feels forced into the story when she's got a 2 minute scene in order to show her in the episode, but the number of these episodes has ben decreasing, not increasing.



I wish I could believe that - but from BW's words, it sounds to me as if she's going to be there til Carter comes, and then she's not going to be there anymore. "She'll come back for a while" - that sounds - again, to me - as if the unspoken continuation is "and then she will be gone".

Agreed with what you said. She was an integral part of Atlantis and if she is forced off I will be very disappointed.

the old briar pipe
January 15th, 2007, 04:58 PM
Its called Stargate: Atlantis, not Stargate: Wier/Carson. I for one will be tuning in and purchasing DVDs for as long as theyre producing them.

Eh. I'm not that much of a fan.

I will be tuning in and buying the DVDs as long as good stories are told about people I can connect to. There is a good chance that will happen in S4 despite my disappointment over the changes, so I will continue to watch. If I like it, I will buy the DVDs. If I don't, sayonara.

Auralis
January 15th, 2007, 05:33 PM
/me dons the asbesto suit...

Yeah, good riddance Weir. The only time i liked the character was in lost city.
On Atlantis she flat out sucks in every possible way.
And while they are at it, take Teyla with her, another useless character.

Reaceania
January 15th, 2007, 06:23 PM
Going by Season 2, since I haven't seen all of Season 3 yet, I can't really recall any episode where she played a significant part (Long Goodbye doesn't really count, since it wasn't actually Weir for most part of that episode). Yet I can recall numerous times where she (and Beckett) were off-world gallivanting around with Shep and the team. Why do the Leader of the Base (an important person, someone who can't be risked) and the CMO/Chief Surgeon (again, an important/valuable person to Atlantis) go off into a time dilation field on a rescue mission?
I understand, to an extent, the logic that Weir as leader of the expedition would be constrained largely, but not entirely, to the city because of her responsibilities. Same with Carson as her chief surgeon. That is somewhat realistic (to the extent that this can be ;)). But unfortunately by the same logic, Sheppard as Military CO would also largely be a paper pusher and also restricted to the base and not gallivanting off in the PG for extended periods of time. Hence, I would've actually been happy for Carter to come in as a new expedition and base commander, and in many respects having Atlantis under military control makes some sense in the current climate in the PG. Weir could've become senior Earth diplomat (or something or whatever) and joined Team Sheppard. Sheppard and the others etc could've kept doing what they do.

I find the prospect of Weir getting less substantial content than either Ronon or Teyla have been getting, quite frankly, depressing.




Actually... spoilers for First Strike (S3 finale)
from what I gather, why Weir won't be around as much will be revealed in First Strike. While I'm not sure it will be death, considering they've said she's not going to be killed off, it does sound like she's in mortal jeopardy


I'm sure that's probably the case, and when you combine the rumours for First Strike with the Mallozzi spoiler poem, your mind can run wild with possibilities.

I even considered briefly that it might've been a way for tptb to increase the suspense at the "cliffhanger." I mean if the audience knows all the cast are coming back the following season to their same roles, there's less suspense. So if you let the audience know one of them is only coming back for "some time" (whatever that is) it might be a way to get the audience wondering. However, in light of Brad Wright's comments, I give that a 2% chance of being the case, and really it would only work if the audience didn't know who Brad Wright was refering to.

In much the same way that my interest in SG1 plummeted with all the changes between S8 and S9 I'm afraid that that's what's going to happen here. :( I'd really like to know what is meant by "recurring" in this instance

dpgiffin
January 15th, 2007, 06:33 PM
i didn't have time to read through the entire thread here, but has it been confirmed WHO'S decision this was? perhaps Torri expressed interest to stay with the show but begin to look to for other jobs? or was it a creative decision? That makes a huge difference in what the community should allow as a fan reaction.

Either way, i don't think the decision is a bad one at all. Those of you who know me (very few), know that i am a huge supporter of creative decisions. As long as it is believable, i'll go with it. most of the time i greatly enjoy it. The fact SG-1 stayed so stable as a team and group is unbelievable, albeit neccessary for a sucessful show. I love the randomness atlantis has provided us. No character is truly safe, and i really appreciate that. If this is believable, chances are i'm for it.

ShadowMaat
January 15th, 2007, 07:41 PM
If it had been Torri's decision I think she would have been quick to reassure her fans. The silence (except for the jeering ridicule of Joe Mallozzi) from the set makes me think it's more of an executive decision although you're right- no one knows for sure.

Ravenessa
January 15th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Don't know if this has been said or not [I didn't read all the posts. =P], but the first thing that went through my head when I read this was anger.

Then I cooled down and got to thinking.

Amanda Tapping is going to be in Season Four, right? What if she's taking over 'Lizabeth's job for some unknown reason.

-shrug- Just a thought.

psychofilly
January 16th, 2007, 05:19 AM
Oh *insert diety* don't mention that...I could so see this turning into the Sam/McKay drama...and then I would switch the channel with a scathing letter to TPTB!

A lot of people seem to think it will be Sam/John/Rodney, I definitely see it all about Sam/Rodney which scares the daylights out of me, but let me stop presupposing on this, I'll give it a chance. *croses fingers, and tapping heels* Please let her be like Caldwell, please let her be like Caldwell, please let her be like Caldwell....

See, I like Sam/Rodney (in SMALL doses) and would have no problem if they slowly move towards that being a 'ship, but I think Rodney is just now in a place where he could have a relationship of equals with her, and I still think he has some growing in his personal interactions to do before she'd be in a place where she'd want to reciprocate.

But yeah, I'd like to see Sam mix it up. She's in a unique positions as a military scientist to where she can both butt heads with and back up McKay and Sheppard. Plus it would be nice to see her and Teyla strike up a friendship like she and Janet (and Vala) have done in the past. If she gets stranded there or something, It'll be interesting how she'd interact with Weir as her superior.

There is just so much they can do that I'm a little excited to see what they do with her. I honestly don't think they will make her a part of the gate team.

Pitry
January 16th, 2007, 08:10 AM
True, but SG1 always had a smaller cast ensemble than Atlantis. With that many characters on Atlantis, it seems to me as if they are trying to include Weir and Beckett in the stories simply because they are main characters and they have to be there. Obviously they went wrong somewhere with Weir/Atlantis because she was meant to be the driving force behind the expedition. But unfortunately, due to the way they are telling their stories, she's become anything but.

I suspect this would depend on your definition for "cast ensemble". The way I see it, the regular characters in SGA season 1 were the five leads, Zelenka and Grodin, perhaps Halling to some extant... not that very differnet than let us say, season 6 of SG1, with 5 leads, recurring Frasier, Walter, Bra'tac, Jacob and Daniel... and right now (... season 3/10) both shows stand on 6 regulars.
I'm not sure if tehy're trying to do it. there were plenty of episodes they didn't - I'm pretty srue we dind't see Weir in all episodes, I know that's true fo Becket... and you know, Grace under Pressure comes to mind, with only 3 out of the regular 6 even appearing there. As I said - yup, there are times they're trying to push for presence...
Look, if it were up to me I'd have cancelled the whole "Sheppard's Team" concept and turned this entirely to an Atlantis based show, which wuold have given plenty of room to Weir and Beckett. I agree that the current format of the show makes this a lot harder, and since I'm not likely to be listened to by the peopel in charge, it's a moot point. ;) But even in the current format, I think there's plenty of place for all characters as was shown by plenty of episodes this year - to name a few:Return 1&2, Echoes, Tao of Rodney, I haven't seen Sunday yet but from pre-episode bits it sounded liek it's another one... not to mentino that I thought there was plenty of place in Progeny, in No Man's Land and Misbegotten, even McKay and Mrs Miller and Common Groudn, to some extant that have been character-centred episodes had a place for everyone.





Going by Season 2, since I haven't seen all of Season 3 yet, I can't really recall any episode where she played a significant part (Long Goodbye doesn't really count, since it wasn't actually Weir for most part of that episode). Yet I can recall numerous times where she (and Beckett) were off-world gallivanting around with Shep and the team. Why do the Leader of the Base (an important person, someone who can't be risked) and the CMO/Chief Surgeon (again, an important/valuable person to Atlantis) go off into a time dilation field on a rescue mission?

It could be my own personal problems, but I try not to bring season 2 as an example for anyting. Season 2 wasd bad on so many places, and character-place is jsut one of them... I have no probklem admitting I've only watched season 2 out of my love for Rodney, hoping it wouldg et better and the occasional SG1 cross over. I'm taking season 3 as an example ebcause this is a season so many of these problems have been solved, IMO. I think they [i]have[i/] found a place for weir in this season, withuot having to stretch how belivable it all is...

TheTrinityTiger
January 16th, 2007, 10:25 AM
I have great trust in the writers of Atlantis, season 3 has been spectacular and if Torri Higginson wants to go recurring then fine by me, i can only hope the writers pay attention to the pain Elizabeth felt in The Return when she had to leave Atlantis and keep her character around. Booted off to Earth would be awful.

Also 'recurring' better mean at least 14/16 episodes!

So episodes where she's just saying 'Colonel, You have a go' ok we can do without her.
Weir is a delightful part of Atlantis.:weir:

FallenAngelII
January 16th, 2007, 10:33 AM
I have great trust in the writers of Atlantis, season 3 has been spectacular and if Torri Higginson wants to go recurring then fine by me, i can only hope the writers pay attention to the pain Elizabeth felt in The Return when she had to leave Atlantis and keep her character around. Booted off to Earth would be awful.

Also 'recurring' better mean at least 14/16 episodes!

So episodes where she's just saying 'Colonel, You have a go' ok we can do without her.
Weir is a delightful part of Atlantis.:weir:
There's been no indication that it was out of her own choice. She's got quite a good relationship with us and I'd imagine her coming out and telling us if it were out of her own free will that she's becoming recurring in season 4.

Hyperspace
January 16th, 2007, 10:41 AM
I would like to hear from her, but I guess she's embargoed right now.

Mitchell82
January 16th, 2007, 11:07 AM
I wish everyone would chill and take a breath and just try and see how this turns out. My argument has been confirmed on the main page about AT saying that she was obligsated to come on Atlantis so she is not replacing anyone. I am sure Weir will still be a part of SGA and even if not I am willing to see how this goes.

ShoDar
January 16th, 2007, 11:16 AM
I can think of a couple senarios where Weir going to recurring is actually a good thing, so I think I'll wait and see.

TheTrinityTiger
January 17th, 2007, 10:23 AM
If they're booting her off:weir: -well thats just rude. I'd be mad.

Copernicus
March 19th, 2007, 12:59 PM
The character of Weir is supposed to have a reduced role in season four of Atlantis, which has caused quite the commotion, but why this is happening was never really addressed.

Here's my question to everyone:

Could Ms. Higginson be pregnant?

Ltcolshepjumper
March 19th, 2007, 02:32 PM
We would know if she was. Either TPTB feel like she shouldn't have as big as a role, or TH herself feels like she shouldn't have as big a role.

Copernicus
March 19th, 2007, 03:40 PM
We would know if she was. Either TPTB feel like she shouldn't have as big as a role, or TH herself feels like she shouldn't have as big a role.
We would?

I never realized our resources were that extensive.

SaberBlade
March 19th, 2007, 04:05 PM
I doubt her not having a bigger role is because she's been knocked up. That didn't really stop Tapping because she just missed what, the first 6 or so episodes of season 9?

So if Tori was pregnant, they could easily cover the whole thing up for the biggest part by having her behind consoles and sitting down.

vaberella
March 19th, 2007, 04:05 PM
We would?

I never realized our resources were that extensive.

Thank you Copernicus. I don't think we would know if they didn't want us to know. This is not me agreeing to a rather outlandish rumor started in fandom. But I will say this...how can one be so sure we would know someone is pregnant if they don't tell us, especially in the first 5 months or so...

Absolutely ridiculous to think that we would have resources and be privy to that kind of information. I randomly heard about Joe F.'s latest child after the child was born. Did anyone else know 9 months previously to the news that his wife was giving birth? Doubtful.

If she told the writers, the writers have no right to divulge that sort of information--if they still want to be considered profesional and be taken seriously. Lastly, if I don't want my fans to know, I won't tell them. End of story. So it's quite plausible that something like that could be the case or she had better opportunities or she just wanted some personal time---whatever and we wouldn't know otherwise unless it came out of the horses mouth.

vaberella
March 19th, 2007, 04:09 PM
I doubt her not having a bigger role is because she's been knocked up. That didn't really stop Tapping because she just missed what, the first 6 or so episodes of season 9?

So if Tori was pregnant, they could easily cover the whole thing up for the biggest part by having her behind consoles and sitting down.

Uh that's in regards to AT, there are many actresses who become pregnant and request some time off from working on an show full time. It's a regular thing to happen.

Also if she's going to be far along during the filming of the newer season, things happen and you may want to take time off. I think your statement is a bit generalized and simplistic, when again we're not privy to any information.

I personally think, this is fandom run amok. Although, I could be proved wrong. Time will tell.

SaberBlade
March 19th, 2007, 04:30 PM
Uh that's in regards to AT, there are many actresses who become pregnant and request some time off from working on an show full time. It's a regular thing to happen.

Also if she's going to be far along during the filming of the newer season, things happen and you may want to take time off. I think your statement is a bit generalized and simplistic, when again we're not privy to any information.

I personally think, this is fandom run amok. Although, I could be proved wrong. Time will tell.

I don't really think it's that's simplistic. Tapping not only had the 6 SG1 episodes off, but she also had the several month period between the end of season 8 and the start of season 9. I think that if Tori had become pregnant, then she as well would have that between season break plus additional episodes away from the show.

However that being said, I do believe that Tapping was visibly more pregnant near the end of season 8 (to the point where they had her in baggy clothes to help make it less noticable) while Tori looked as good as ever during the end of S3. So it is possible that during the break, she could start showing which in turn could lead to her needing time off during the season.

But as I said, that didn't really stop Tapping because she became pregnant during season 8 and still went on. I would agree that I am generalising it because Tapping and Tori are two different people and just because one can do something one way doesn't mean the other can.

J_B
March 19th, 2007, 04:42 PM
The character of Weir is supposed to have a reduced role in season four of Atlantis, which has caused quite the commotion, but why this is happening was never really addressed.

Here's my question to everyone:

Could Ms. Higginson be pregnant?

Doubt it because if they still had big plans for her, then she'd still be on the main cast credits for S4. It's more likely to do with the fact that most of the action takes place off-world. Therefore they decided that with the inclusion of Carter also that it's best to focus more of the season on the main team.

Weir isn't a warrior, Hammond didn't feature heavily in a lot of SG-1 eps throughout the season. A lot were just fleeting appearances! So it's possible she'll be in a lot of eps like that of Hammon or Fraiser from SG-1. She could even get 10/15 or whatever eps. Zelenka is a recurring character but is always in almost every ep.

They probably decided that because AT was available that it was better to bring her over onto the main cast. Most likely in the hope of keeping some of the old SG-1 audience interested in Atlantis.

JM said a few weeks ago when asked in his blog that they didn't have a set amount of eps for her & she'd be part of a major arc in S4.Therefore she'll be there at least into the 2nd part of the new season. I don't see her going anywhere. Just they're cutting her screen time back & giving it to Carter.

Mitchell82
March 19th, 2007, 06:49 PM
Uh that's in regards to AT, there are many actresses who become pregnant and request some time off from working on an show full time. It's a regular thing to happen.

Also if she's going to be far along during the filming of the newer season, things happen and you may want to take time off. I think your statement is a bit generalized and simplistic, when again we're not privy to any information.

I personally think, this is fandom run amok. Although, I could be proved wrong. Time will tell.

Yeah like Lexa. Though she wasnt a regular she chose to take most of the year off. I doubt it's true, either it's likely she was fed up for some reasin and wants time to cool down or TPTB are fed up with her for some reason. Likely we will never know why her role is reduced or if it's only for a season (that we will know shortly).

Copernicus
March 19th, 2007, 07:30 PM
I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting that Ms. Higginson is pregnant. I am merely wondering whether or not you guys would feel it adequately explained the situation surrounding the character right now.

On the one hand, you have tight-lipped powers that be, which is the norm. The really surprising thing, to me, is that we have not seen a comment one or another from Ms. Higginson. In fact, Ms. Higginson has not, as far as I can tell, even been seen or associated with the program in the last few months. With Mr. McGillion's character was killed off, there were periodic comments made by him in regards to it. Ms. Higginson, as far as I can tell, and I will be the first to admit my ability to discern these things is limited, has dropped off the map.

My question, at the end of the day, is as follows: would this hypothesis, that she is pregnant, adequately explain the recent happenings, both on the record and off the record?

4prettierships
March 19th, 2007, 09:20 PM
I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting that Ms. Higginson is pregnant. I am merely wondering whether or not you guys would feel it adequately explained the situation surrounding the character right now.

On the one hand, you have tight-lipped powers that be, which is the norm. The really surprising thing, to me, is that we have not seen a comment one or another from Ms. Higginson. In fact, Ms. Higginson has not, as far as I can tell, even been seen or associated with the program in the last few months. With Mr. McGillion's character was killed off, there were periodic comments made by him in regards to it. Ms. Higginson, as far as I can tell, and I will be the first to admit my ability to discern these things is limited, has dropped off the map.

My question, at the end of the day, is as follows: would this hypothesis, that she is pregnant, adequately explain the recent happenings, both on the record and off the record?

Torri could merely be waiting for the right time to tell her fan base what is going on. Whether the reason is personal or whether she was forced to become recurring is really information that is only known by TPTB, Torri herself, and maybe the rest of the cast. IF she does turn out to be pregnant, I can understand her silence as of late. While fans are extremely important, they wouldn't be first on MY list of people to tell! She is supposedly going to be at the con this coming weekend, so maybe we'll find something out then! :cool:

ElessarUSMC
March 19th, 2007, 09:54 PM
Here's how I feel about the silence from the cast and the fan-commotion. You're right - if she's preggers, I can see why she may not be telling anyone just yet. Depends on how far along she is. But this sounds like total speculation, and probably out of ALL the other possibilities, it will likely be another.

That's what bothers me. It's a lot more likely to simply be something stupid. I don't go along with this "don't freak out, it will turn out to be nothing in the long run" stuff, because it never pans out for me. RDA leaving SG1 - people said relax it's a rumor, BS. DJ dying, people said relax it won't be as bad as it seems - BS. Carson's death, I just read a post by Mallozzi written prior where he said fans should just wait until afterward to have heartattacks because it won't be as bad as they think - UTTER BS! Starbuck's death on BSG, RDM was like "It's not what you think, it's not as simple as that..." Trip Tucker's death and the disgraceful finale of ST: Enterprise, Jadzia Dax's death on DS9, the list goes on and on! They tell us not to worry just to get us to STFU but then it still turns out as bad as it seems 90% of the time.

So that's my .02 on this "relax it won't be as bad" philosophy. It usually is. And it's usually for a stupid reason, like Paul McGillion's quoted reason for removing him, by the producers of, "Stargate SG1 isn't going to be renewed and we're afraid Atlantis won't be either, so we're shaking things up a little, and the short of it is, we're killing off Becket."

That was the reason for that: to mix things up to stave off cancellation. Yeah. Fantastic idea, piss off the fanbase.

I have ZERO faith that IF Torri Higginson is leaving the show (being ASKED to leave the show) even if it's over time, that it will be for a good reason. I seriously doubt it. Personal reasons are "good reasons" to me, if it's her choice. But if it's her choice because they wanted her to do something stupid, that still qualifies as their fault.

Anyway, if you learn more after this Con she's going to, please let us know. I'll be mining for scuttlebut after that con :weir:

Copernicus
March 20th, 2007, 06:47 AM
I absolutely agree it's just speculation. I've made a point to say that at least once, possibly twice.

vaberella
March 20th, 2007, 07:15 AM
I absolutely agree it's just speculation. I've made a point to say that at least once, possibly twice.

Yes we know Copernicus. The thing is, this exact question is actually running around fandom like it's near truth. But I do understand your point and why you brought it up. Further more, if it's true or any other personal issue, then it's a plausible reason for the recurring status.

If the reason why TH is recurring in S4 is because of "personal concerns" then yes it's likely that she could be made to recurring, if the producers are willing. Not only that, it would not be their [the producers] call to disclose those concerns to the public. Further more, the ball would be in TH's park as to whether or not disclose that information.

There seems to be many fans who seem to think they are privy to the private lives of the actors and or have a special link with said actress. <---Which seems to be the case and point for a a few fans here. If you are not the immediate family, close friend or associate, or possibly co-worker---you know nothing!!! The only information is what you're being fed. I think people need to realize this.

Until we've heard from TH herself, no one knows anything. And it's established that JM is keeping mum about this as he should.

PG15
March 30th, 2007, 08:07 PM
Here's some facts (and spoilers for "Lifeline") for you all:

Link! (http://bp1.blogger.com/_bu0vVgPPyEs/Rg3Qo6YPkuI/AAAAAAAACZg/zVRFKP3cGhI/s1600-h/DSC03126.JPG)

It's a "shot" (probably in between takes) from "Lifeline" showing that special someone everyone is talking about. ;)

Daniel Jackson
March 30th, 2007, 09:01 PM
Why is Higginson's role being reduced? Is it because the actress wants to do less episodes, or are the producers phasing her out?

ElessarUSMC
March 30th, 2007, 09:43 PM
Here's some facts (and spoilers for "Lifeline") for you all:

Link! (http://bp1.blogger.com/_bu0vVgPPyEs/Rg3Qo6YPkuI/AAAAAAAACZg/zVRFKP3cGhI/s1600-h/DSC03126.JPG)

It's a "shot" (probably in between takes) from "Lifeline" showing that special someone everyone is talking about. ;)


w00t! Thanks PG15 that made my day!! By the way hi, recognize you from Tbbs and possibly House of Tucker! :tecmate: I was known as just elessar or john o. over there.

PG15
March 30th, 2007, 10:10 PM
Oh yeah! I know you! :D I think I have an account at HoT but don't post there.

Small world. :D

Platschu
March 31st, 2007, 12:40 AM
So Weir will be healthy. I hope she will stay in Atlantis at the leader or at least a member of the expedition and they won't send him back to Earth. :o

ElessarUSMC
March 31st, 2007, 12:50 AM
So Weir will be healthy. I hope she will stay in Atlantis at the leader or at least a member of the expedition and they won't send him back to Earth. :o

him? you mean her? ;)

Now that we see her up and around...

I think the most likely source of this "recurring character" thing is probably just going to be her choice (Weir's - not Torri's). Weir was talking in First Strike about stepping down because of how they were basically just ignoring her (the IOA) for big-pants decisions. It'd be a real bummer if that's the deal, she resigns. I couldn't picture her downgrading herself to a linguist/diplomat/translator from actual base commander (like going from leader to team member). That'd be cool, because it'd change the dynamic between her and the SG team personnel (cough::shep::cough :D ) but I couldn't see it happening. I can hope though :cool:

Celcool
March 31st, 2007, 01:13 AM
Here's some facts (and spoilers for "Lifeline") for you all:

Link! (http://bp1.blogger.com/_bu0vVgPPyEs/Rg3Qo6YPkuI/AAAAAAAACZg/zVRFKP3cGhI/s1600-h/DSC03126.JPG)

It's a "shot" (probably in between takes) from "Lifeline" showing that special someone everyone is talking about. ;)
"Special someone" :D :weir: So happy that she's gonna be fine!!!! :weiranime17:


So Weir will be healthy. I hope she will stay in Atlantis at the leader or at least a member of the expedition and they won't send him back to Earth. :o
Unfortunately, as it seems, she won't be the leader for now. They had to make room for Carter. I do hope they don't send her back to earth because Eliazbeth would NEVER willingly leave Atlantis. I find it hard to believe she would EVER resign but they will probably do that. They do whatever they want.


him? you mean her? ;)

Now that we see her up and around...

I think the most likely source of this "recurring character" thing is probably just going to be her choice (Weir's - not Torri's). Weir was talking in First Strike about stepping down because of how they were basically just ignoring her (the IOA) for big-pants decisions. It'd be a real bummer if that's the deal, she resigns. I couldn't picture her downgrading herself to a linguist/diplomat/translator from actual base commander (like going from leader to team member). That'd be cool, because it'd change the dynamic between her and the SG team personnel (cough::shep::cough :D ) but I couldn't see it happening. I can hope though :cool:
Agreed with what you said, I couldn't picture that either. Are you getting at what I think you're getting at???? :D We wish!

ElessarUSMC
March 31st, 2007, 01:20 AM
I guess the most drab, but likely scenario, knowing what we now know, is that she just has to "take it easy" for awhile while recovering. I.e., no leading... and maybe this isn't necessarily a spoiler... but it seems like a good guess, so what the heck. But maybe Sam shows up in either the Odyssey or some other ship to help, and sticks around since Weir is injured, and kind of takes command for the interim.

That would explain the crap on Weir's desk :( , and the picture that PG15 posted, and then maybe for some weird (probably dumb) reason, she decides to resign.

Ideally, she'd decide to resign because of conflicting personal feelings for a certain team member that she wants to pursue :D , but it'll probably be like... she misses her chia pet or something.

Actually, oh oh oh... I just thought of something. Perhaps the IOA actually decides that they want a military officer commanding Atlantis. They could either have another king sized *****fest where they finally point the finger at Weir, OR, (this reason seems more logical), if it turns out that Atlantis is going to remain space-borne for awhile, they could be like "Well it's now technically a military vessel, so it should be commanded by a military person". So maybe she gets phased out of the leadership role in that way... that would actually be a saving grace for the whole "recurring character" rumor floating around. Recurring may just mean she's no longer the head honcho, her role is kind of ambiguous (like T'Pol after resigning from the High Command, just sorta hung around), and they play with the idea that she could be in-and-out for awhile.

Actually that may be a possible way for her to make that "team leader--->team member" transition that we kind of agreed sounded unlikely. I don't know... I could see it likely if it followed from that chain of events. I guess she'd become like a "Dr. Zelenka" type of recurring character. He's probably the most frequently "recurring character" there is, he's on pretty often.

Willow'sCat
March 31st, 2007, 01:31 AM
Perhaps the IOA actually decides that they want a military officer commanding Atlantis. Well perhaps they actually realise she is the incompetent leader she plainly is and kick her ass back to Earth. :cool:

ElessarUSMC
March 31st, 2007, 01:38 AM
Well perhaps they actually realise she is the incompetent leader she plainly is and kick her ass back to Earth. :cool:

I don't think the IOA is capable of "realizing" anything about leadership ;)

She may or may not be a bad leader, but I don't think the IOA is any authority on it.

Willow'sCat
March 31st, 2007, 01:43 AM
I don't think the IOA is capable of "realizing" anything about leadership Pity, because if Weir is staying and Carter is as well :rolleyes: and McKay's character is being written in such a way as to make way for Carter *which JM already made reference to* then this truly will be a short season for me. :cool: There is only so much fast forwarding a person can do when watching a show before it is just better to stop watching all together. :p

ElessarUSMC
March 31st, 2007, 02:01 AM
Pity, because if Weir is staying and Carter is as well :rolleyes: and McKay's character is being written in such a way as to make way for Carter *which JM already made reference to* then this truly will be a short season for me. :cool: There is only so much fast forwarding a person can do when watching a show before it is just better to stop watching all together. :p

So I guess you don't like Weir... or Carter... but you do like McKay? I see. ;) Yeah I actually wouldn't want to see McKay take a backseat either. I really dont' want to see another "These are the Voyages" (inside joke for Enterprise fans) where they're like "lets try to hijack the spinoff with characters from the old, wildly successful original show and improve its ratings!"

McKay play second fiddle to no one... in fact I don't even think the "McKay" from SG1 should have been the same person that came onto Atlantis. They changed him so much to make him even tolerable. He's like 10x more competent now than he was before, and definitely a lot less abrasive. The McKay that Carter was "better than" back then was a totally different person. I love Carter and all but I have to say that this is McKay's turf... I don't want anybody trespassing on it.

Bogwoppit
March 31st, 2007, 02:31 AM
... in fact I don't even think the "McKay" from SG1 should have been the same person that came onto Atlantis. They changed him so much to make him even tolerable. He's like 10x more competent now than he was before, and definitely a lot less abrasive. The McKay that Carter was "better than" back then was a totally different person. I love Carter and all but I have to say that this is McKay's turf... I don't want anybody trespassing on it.

See, I don't agree with you there. Not about it being McKay's turf, that I agree with 100%. I just think we've got to know McKay now that he's a regular character and as such we have come to know the 'human' parts of his character. I still think he's obnoxious :lol: but they couldn't have all the viewers hating him and wishing he wasn't there. Then again, I actually liked him in SG1 too so maybe that's just me!:P

I am looking forward to seeing what changes they DO have to make to McKay to fit Sam in. I'm not against her going or anything, but I do think they are going to have to work hard to create a role for her if she DOESN'T become leader of Atlantis, simply because she and McKay have virtually the same role, notwithstanding her military background of course.

Anyway, back on topic... I'm so glad we have evidence of Weir being fine, even though I didn't believe for a minute she wouldn't be! I usually have faith in TPTB and do on this occasion too, but I have to say, I was just beginning to like Elizabeth so I will be quite upset to see her less :( And has been said elsewhere in the thread, I can't see her stepping down easily, and definitely not leaving Atlantis altogether. I think like a few others that she will become disillusioned by the lack of faith in her and step down because of real or imagined pressure from the IOA, but her diplomatic skills are such that she would still be an invaluable member of the expedition.

jenks
March 31st, 2007, 03:07 AM
Here's some facts (and spoilers for "Lifeline") for you all:

Link! (http://bp1.blogger.com/_bu0vVgPPyEs/Rg3Qo6YPkuI/AAAAAAAACZg/zVRFKP3cGhI/s1600-h/DSC03126.JPG)

It's a "shot" (probably in between takes) from "Lifeline" showing that special someone everyone is talking about. ;)

NOOOooooo :(

Blower'sGate
March 31st, 2007, 03:29 AM
Unfortunately, as it seems, she won't be the leader for now. They had to make room for Carter. I do hope they don't send her back to earth because Eliazbeth would NEVER willingly leave Atlantis. I find it hard to believe she would EVER resign but they will probably do that. They do whatever they want.


Elizabeth could willingly leave Atlantis, she's not a robot ! I'm really happy she's ON the pic, but that doesn't tell us much either. Excuse me, but being in a flying city that's lost in space is actually something that could lead her to resign(:D). JM didn't have to post that pic but he did. You should cut tptb some slack for once! And yes they're doing whatever they want, it's their show. And for the hundreth time, JM stated the Weir arc/recurring status isn't about making room for Carter. I'm not trying to get into a Weir fan war here, I'd just like you guys to not judge on what you don't know. Weir is also my fave character (along with Sheppy +whump :)) too and I've got my own opinion on Weir's issues. For me it wouldn't be out of character for her to resign after all she's been through and the fact that only the expedition is aware of how worth she is having around as a leader. IMHO the premise of the show couldn't be better and we can get great characters developments and interactions. I hope I didn't offended you in the process Celcool, bc it certainly wasn't my intention. SG-1 has survived several losses but had great come backs. Give the show a chance as it is and stop getting angry and frustrated over the one good thing we've had in months ! I dare you to tell me that you're not even remotely happy.

So, I guess the "brain surgery" went excessively well :D. Or this scene is just another Weir dream/subconscience scene a la Real Worl.

Celcool
March 31st, 2007, 04:26 AM
Elizabeth could willingly leave Atlantis, she's not a robot !
You're right, she's not a robot, she has feelings, feelings for certain people in Atlantis. She wouldn't abandon them just like that. I'm not the only one thinking she wouldn't leave willingly and I'm basing my opinion on The Return 1 when she was absolutely miserable when she had to leave Atlantis and be far away from the people she has grown to care about very much. I think nothing would make her do that, she'd still want to stay no matter what, even if she found a reason to resign (which TPTB could obviously make her find, yes, it is their show, I'm aware of that ;) ) Her whole life revolves around Atlantis now, she's invested too much herself in those 3 years of being the leader, taking care of her people, doing what would be best for them and the earth to just return to earth willingly living her life far away from them with no contact to her "family" on Atlantis.


I'm really happy she's ON the pic, but that doesn't tell us much either.
I'm aware of that too. :) I was happy when I first saw it but still, all kinds of theories passed through my mind. It could be all "real world"-like but I doubt it. For now, I'm just happy that she's gonna be okay. After all, that's one positive thing we got about Elizabeth since the very beginning of this whole recurring news. I'm gonna enjoy it for now! :D :weir: :D

Still, they don't want to tell us in how many episodes she's gonna be in, that would tell us a lot. They can say for everybody else but not her, why is that?


Excuse me, but being in a flying city that's lost in space is actually something that could lead her to resign(:D).
If you look at it that way, then everybody could resign, Shep, McKay, everybody! What's the point of keeping the job then?


JM didn't have to post that pic but he did. You should cut tptb some slack for once!
I know he didn't have to, that's why I posted a comment on his blog and cut him some slack, for once ;) .


And for the hundreth time, JM stated the Weir arc/recurring status isn't about making room for Carter.
I better not start discussing this.


For me it wouldn't be out of character for her to resign after all she's been through
It depends on how the writers would handle that if it would be believable enough. ElessarUSMC could be right in his theories, still, I don't like TPTB's decision to make her a recurring character in the first place. I don't like any of the recent changes and I don't understand how they think it will draw viewers. They're messing with the characters too much.


SG-1 has survived several losses but had great come backs.
Not everybody feels that's the case from what I read here.


Give the show a chance as it is and stop getting angry and frustrated over the one good thing we've had in months ! I dare you to tell me that you're not even remotely happy.
How could you see anger and frustration from my post here? There was none. I used 2 of these smilies :D, no angry ones. I was happy for a change, it's at least something, not something that would promise everything we still want but yeah, she's alive! :weir: :weir: :weir:

mcbarr
March 31st, 2007, 04:44 AM
Great news! Now let's hope they don't make her resign or something.

Save Weir! http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/weir/weiranime46.gif

Astraldust
March 31st, 2007, 05:06 AM
Elizabeth could willingly leave Atlantis, she's not a robot ! I'm really happy she's ON the pic, but that doesn't tell us much either. Excuse me, but being in a flying city that's lost in space is actually something that could lead her to resign(:D). JM didn't have to post that pic but he did. You should cut tptb some slack for once! And yes they're doing whatever they want, it's their show. And for the hundreth time, JM stated the Weir arc/recurring status isn't about making room for Carter. I'm not trying to get into a Weir fan war here, I'd just like you guys to not judge on what you don't know. Weir is also my fave character (along with Sheppy +whump :)) too and I've got my own opinion on Weir's issues. For me it wouldn't be out of character for her to resign after all she's been through and the fact that only the expedition is aware of how worth she is having around as a leader. IMHO the premise of the show couldn't be better and we can get great characters developments and interactions. I hope I didn't offended you in the process Celcool, bc it certainly wasn't my intention. SG-1 has survived several losses but had great come backs. Give the show a chance as it is and stop getting angry and frustrated over the one good thing we've had in months ! I dare you to tell me that you're not even remotely happy.

So, I guess the "brain surgery" went excessively well :D. Or this scene is just another Weir dream/subconscience scene a la Real Worl.

Well said, Blower'sGate. I totally agree with you. Whatever the future hold's for Elizabeth and the rest of the team, I hope it's a good one. Let's keep watching so they've got one. :D Please! Atlantis is a great show.

Wormhole
March 31st, 2007, 08:36 AM
I just posted this on another topic. I have to say I do have my suspicions about this. Looking at Rodney’s face I can see it's realtime but I find it hard to believe Elizabeth will be up and walking about so soon after surgery.

The fact that she’s sitting in the back, is it possible this could be some kind of out of body experience thing?

ElessarUSMC
March 31st, 2007, 10:04 AM
I just posted this on another topic. I have to say I do have my suspicions about this. Looking at Rodney’s face I can see it's realtime but I find it hard to believe Elizabeth will be up and walking about so soon after surgery.

The fact that she’s sitting in the back, is it possible this could be some kind of out of body experience thing?

I don't think sitting in the back or the front means anything in that regard. Sure it could be an OBE, but I don't see any evidence of that... it's just a theory.

Copernicus
March 31st, 2007, 10:16 AM
Here's some facts (and spoilers for "Lifeline") for you all:

Link! (http://bp1.blogger.com/_bu0vVgPPyEs/Rg3Qo6YPkuI/AAAAAAAACZg/zVRFKP3cGhI/s1600-h/DSC03126.JPG)

It's a "shot" (probably in between takes) from "Lifeline" showing that special someone everyone is talking about. ;)
Of course, with our luck this shot will be part of a flashback one of the characters is having.

PG15
March 31st, 2007, 01:42 PM
I don't think so. You can see subtle scars on Rodney's face and a big, healing gash on the side of Ronan's, which were caused by the glass shattering in First Strike.

Copernicus
March 31st, 2007, 02:03 PM
I don't think so. You can see subtle scars on Rodney's face and a big, healing gash on the side of Ronan's, which were caused by the glass shattering in First Strike.
True enough. Good point.

Willow'sCat
March 31st, 2007, 06:04 PM
So I guess you don't like Weir... or Carter... but you do like McKay? I see. I hate Weir. :cool:

I want her gone for good as soon as possible. OR bring back Jessica Steen who was so much better in the role then Torri IMHO. :)

As for Carter I like her most of all on SG-1 where she belongs. I just don't see her working on SGA without a huge re-write and that is never going to happen to tptb(s) "golden girl". *shrugs*

Ripple in Space
March 31st, 2007, 10:23 PM
Can you believe that they Malozzi was willing to confirm that Jewel is in at least 8 eps, and won't even give a ballpark on Torri?

PG15
March 31st, 2007, 10:29 PM
Yes I can; Jewel has a contract for 8 episodes, it won't be less, or more.

Ripple in Space
March 31st, 2007, 10:38 PM
^I'm not sure if that's true. Wasn't Claudia contracted for far fewer episodes than she appeared in (S9), and they added a few after the initial contract?

Daniel Jackson
March 31st, 2007, 10:51 PM
Why is Higginson's role being reduced? Is it because the actress wants to do less episodes, or are the producers phasing her out?
I don't think anyone saw my questions. :(

PG15
March 31st, 2007, 10:53 PM
Was she? We'll need confirmation on that.

But anyway, the situation with Torri is different, I think; her situation at the end of season 3 means that any solid number sort of spells out what's going to happen to her, and that kinda ruins the whole effect of that last scene.

EDIT: DJ, we don't know the reason.

Blower'sGate
April 1st, 2007, 08:28 AM
Was she? We'll need confirmation on that.

But anyway, the situation with Torri is different, I think; her situation at the end of season 3 means that any solid number sort of spells out what's going to happen to her, and that kinda ruins the whole effect of that last scene.

EDIT: DJ, we don't know the reason.

Well maybe that's just it! JM won't disclose the set amount of episodes bc it would ruin it all. So far we have :

-Carter's belongings in Weir's office ( for 14 episodes ) = Atlantis is under military control.
-Weir in a jumper alongside Mckay, Sheppard and Ronon ( in Lifeline )
-No set amount of episodes for Torri as it would spoil the whole thing.

I might be jumping to conclusions here, but I think Weir won't resign and will stay on Atlantis ( being useful as she's one of the best negociator in two galaxies hence why her recurring status ). With all this, I could speculate and say that Atlantis will be back under Weir's command by the end of S4 and/or at the begining of s5.

But I'm not tptb so what do I know ! :D

Wormhole
April 1st, 2007, 08:32 AM
I did wonder if they would show lifeline a bit like Sunday. 1 Hour later etc.

Blower'sGate
April 1st, 2007, 08:34 AM
I did wonder if they would show lifeline a bit like Sunday. 1 Hour later etc.

Hm, I would go more for something like weeks later ;)

Edit : I forgot about Mckay's scars and Ronon's injury... hm well maybe it could be days...

Sheppard141
April 1st, 2007, 09:16 AM
I don't think so. You can see subtle scars on Rodney's face and a big, healing gash on the side of Ronan's, which were caused by the glass shattering in First Strike.

I agree, this is awesome news. Weir is okay, yay. Anyways i agree becuase you can clearly see the gashes on Mckay and Ronan's face. Another thing is that anytime Weir has gone off world in a jumper was with the whole team. Teyla is missing from that shot. So it means it must be a new never been seen episode.
(Lifeline) It can't be a hour or whatever earlier because Weir never went offworld in the season except for submersion, and Teyla was with them in the jumper. Yippee Weir is okay.

Southern Red
April 1st, 2007, 09:59 AM
I don't think anyone saw my questions. :(

Sorry you got ignored. I'll try to help. As far as anyone knows it was not Torri's decision to leave. Brad Wright said in an interview that Torri would return in S4 on a recurring basis for some time. Joe Mallozzi has mentioned on his blog that they "made the decision" concerning Weir, so that tells us TPTB wanted her to be recurring. Now that's all we know basically. Numerous fans have tried to get JM to reveal how many eps Torri will be in to no avail. We know she's in Adrift and Lifeline because she was on the set filming and now we got this picture on his blog.

Whew! How was that? Actually IMHO the picture has brought up more questions that answers. There are a lot of puzzling things like the fact that Ronon and Rodney are still obviously injured, yet Elizabeth seems fine. If a lot of time had passed, they would have healed. So maybe her initial injuries were not as serious as thought, and the brain surgery will come later. Didn't Keller say something to Shep about having to check her out before she'd know how serious it was? Couldn't some head injuries go undetected for awhile? And the best possible scenario to me is that Elizabeth resign as leader but remain in Atlantis.

Uber
April 1st, 2007, 11:32 AM
Sorry you got ignored. I'll try to help. As far as anyone knows it was not Torri's decision to leave. Brad Wright said in an interview that Torri would return in S4 on a recurring basis for some time. Joe Mallozzi has mentioned on his blog that they "made the decision" concerning Weir, so that tells us TPTB wanted her to be recurring. Now that's all we know basically. Numerous fans have tried to get JM to reveal how many eps Torri will be in to no avail. We know she's in Adrift and Lifeline because she was on the set filming and now we got this picture on his blog.

Whew! How was that? Actually IMHO the picture has brought up more questions that answers. There are a lot of puzzling things like the fact that Ronon and Rodney are still obviously injured, yet Elizabeth seems fine. If a lot of time had passed, they would have healed. So maybe her initial injuries were not as serious as thought, and the brain surgery will come later. Didn't Keller say something to Shep about having to check her out before she'd know how serious it was? Couldn't some head injuries go undetected for awhile? And the best possible scenario to me is that Elizabeth resign as leader but remain in Atlantis. Actually, from what I saw, Joe Mallozzi intentionally used the passive tense and said... "After the decision was made about Weir" or something to that effect.

I'm not disputing your conclusion however. I think it's pretty likely that for whatever reason, TPTB decided to make Weir recurring...but I've seen nothing that definitively states who's idea it was.

Suzotchka
April 1st, 2007, 11:46 AM
Actually, from what I saw, Joe Mallozzi intentionally used the passive tense and said... "After the decision was made about Weir" or something to that effect.

I'm not disputing your conclusion however. I think it's pretty likely that for whatever reason, TPTB decided to make Weir recurring...but I've seen nothing that definitively states who's idea it was.

Actually I think JM said in his blog (when answering a question about Torri): "We made a decision. You just didn't like it." I do not believe the 'we' to be anyone other than TPTB because I do not think he could speak for SCIFI or MGM.

Uber
April 1st, 2007, 11:54 AM
Actually I think JM said in his blog (when answering a question about Torri): "We made a decision. You just didn't like it." I do not believe the 'we' to be anyone other than TPTB because I do not think he could speak for SCIFI or MGM.Ah okay.

Originally the comments were very passively stated about "the decisions that were made" and so forth, which left it open as to who were the final decision makers...ie., be it Torri or SciFi or the folks at Bridge.

If he actually said "we made a decision"...then I totally I stand corrected.

I am curious though as to what this decision is (ie., what does "recurring" actually mean), how it came about and more importantly, what does it mean to the show? I guess we won't be able to do much more than speculate as to why they made their decisions and how it will play out until season 4 roles around and we find out for certain.

Killdeer
April 1st, 2007, 12:26 PM
Ah okay.

Originally the comments were very passively stated about "the decisions that were made" and so forth, which left it open as to who were the final decision makers...ie., be it Torri or SciFi or the folks at Bridge.

If he actually said "we made a decision"...then I totally I stand corrected.

I am curious though as to what this decision is (ie., what does "recurring" actually mean), how it came about and more importantly, what does it mean to the show? I guess we won't be able to do much more than speculate as to why they made their decisions and how it will play out until season 4 roles around and we find out for certain.

Here's the relevant quote from the March 8th entry at JoeM's blog:


Question: “You've pretty much confirmed that Torri is without a contract for season four. So why doesn't someone with the guts to make a decision do something about that?”

Answer: Uh, we did make a decision. You simply disagree with it.

ElessarUSMC
April 1st, 2007, 12:48 PM
Here's the relevant quote from the March 8th entry at JoeM's blog:

Pretty much sounds like he's saying the writers/producers were the ones who decided to axe her contract. Probably more "let's mix things up" BS like with Carson, as if it would improve ratings and keep the fans around in lieu of possible cancellation. And people said Rick Berman lived in another reality... :tealcanime22:

Irish Eyes
April 1st, 2007, 01:45 PM
Seeing Torri in the pictures from the set was great, but no real surprise given what episode they were filming. It in no way changes how I feel about this situation. Scrolling back through this thread I found this comment from ShadowMaat which sums up my feelings exactly:


I think what has people nervous is that "recurring" tends to be synonymous with "gone" in TPTB lingo. Ford went to "recurring" and was only seen a few more times before disappearing entirely (and with a chance that he may even be dead). Carson is being listed as "recurring" but rumor has it he could be killed.

Yes, "recurring" could mean she's almost as active as ever, but it could also mean that she'll only appear a couple of times and then never again.

Sometimes it's tough to look past a show's track record. It's my bad luck that this is happening to my fav character, but I wouldn't like it to happen to any of the others either.

Now that it appears Sam is taking over the leadership of Atlantis, there are more theories on what Weir might do if she stays. I kind of like the one where she focuses on being a negotiator. After all, that was really her strong point back on Earth. As long as she gets quality recurring time, I'll be happy. But I won't believe it until I see it.;)

PG15
April 1st, 2007, 01:57 PM
Pretty much sounds like he's saying the writers/producers were the ones who decided to axe her contract. Probably more "let's mix things up" BS like with Carson, as if it would improve ratings and keep the fans around in lieu of possible cancellation. And people said Rick Berman lived in another reality... :tealcanime22:

Oh come on...nobody compares to Berman in terms of idiocy; at least JM takes the time to interact with us. ;)

And I'll never understand the fandom phenomenon where a fan makes up a scenerio, thinks that that's what is actually is, and then calls it terrible. You made it up yourself man!

Ripple in Space
April 1st, 2007, 04:38 PM
TPTB ruined the character, period.

She started out with oodles of potential (being a civilian diplomat, thrown into the shoes of the leader of an alien/human colony), and they never developed anything for her. During the "Michael/Retrovirus Story Arc" her command decisions were inconsistent at best, and her personality/moral code made a 180 every 15-minutes.

Torri complained about this, and they didn't choose to listen, but preferred to destroy their female lead to move along a poorly thought out arc.

Did Torri do a bad job? No.

ElessarUSMC
April 1st, 2007, 07:10 PM
Oh come on...nobody compares to Berman in terms of idiocy; at least JM takes the time to interact with us. ;)

And I'll never understand the fandom phenomenon where a fan makes up a scenerio, thinks that that's what is actually is, and then calls it terrible. You made it up yourself man!

i said PROBABLY! ;)

Plus the Carson thing WAS motivated by "let's mix things up", that's got proof by the interview Paul did where he went over the whole conversation where he was let go.

The only speculative part of what I said was in regard to the motivation behind axing Weir being the same.... hoping to "mix things up". There are a slim number of basic reasons it could be: creative, money, actor-choice, actor-life. Creative being that the writing/producing staff wanted the change because they thought it'd benefit the show. Money being, well, to cut budget. Actor-choice being TH deciding to not renew, and Actor-life being like if TH had a long term family crisis or got married or got pregnant or something. Those are the only general categories I can think of, and "creative" seems most likely to me, although we don't have the information to rule out either of the "Actor" ones.

carterrocks
April 19th, 2007, 03:19 AM
Weir was put in charge of atlantis because she was a gd neigociator, the IOA believed if they were to meet alien races she would be the best person to mingle and make friends ALTHOUGH whilst in the pegasus galaxy the expedition have came up against 2 major races who are hostile, she cant talk to them, cant stop them so why is she still in charge? Like siege part 3 she should be relieved of her command until the alien threat or threats are dealt with she is not a miltary stargegist, she should be fired now since she cant handle the situation. I also dont believe sheppard makes up for the lack of a military leader, his one man at the SGC there were hundreds of military guys who cud make an overall decision which would most of the time work, weir and sheppard cant.

ACharmedAsgard
April 19th, 2007, 03:58 AM
Shep is there as he a very strong connection to the ATA gene and can use Ancient technology very well - in a way he's 'a natural'

atlantis_babe34
April 19th, 2007, 04:19 AM
The point of Weir going to Atlantis was to do the same thing that the SGC does.. Require Technology that will help defend the planet. They nedded someone to make that offical.. and hmm jsut a thought here but tahts a diplomats job.. bet no one thought that!

and no shes shouldnt be fired, shes head of that experdition for a reason

Will Thorne
April 19th, 2007, 04:26 AM
Maybe she is still in command because she is damnded good at it....!

Thunderbird 2
April 19th, 2007, 04:32 AM
Atlantis Babe has a point, - Back in SG1's The Lost City, President Hayes explains he put Dr Weir in charge of the SGC beacuse he wanted to quell public concerns if and when the Stargate Programme went public. Well, it hasn;t but 13 countries (official count as of "The New Order" - SG1, are involved, and with the Atlantis expedition having so many natons involved, and the IOA controlling it, it needs a nuetral civilan figure in charge. The civilian apsect is what makes Atlantis different. - For me that works.

Potential SPOILER! - Stargate Atlantis Season 4 (General)

With the possible change of track the series seems to be embarking upon, a more militaristic footing may be in the offing. If that is the case, it's anyone's guess how much a civillian authority would be left in charge, depending on the circumstances. - Personally though, I woant to see more of Weir as a strong, successful negotiator and leader.

Professor Chaos
April 19th, 2007, 07:51 AM
I agree, reducing Weir to recurring and removing her as commander of Atlantis is the best move. Other people have already said it but she is arrogant and obnoxious while she's supposed to be some master negotiator.

She is extremely cocky when talking to an enemy and she can't seem to get along with ANYONE in the military (other than John) not to mention she for some deluded reason thinks she has authority over them when that's clearly not the case.

Wraith_Boy
April 19th, 2007, 10:02 AM
If they were going for the more realistic approach, then in all likelyhood almost all main characters would be gone by now.

First to go would be Weir, after the Wraith problems at the end of S1, where it was made known that Lanteans couldn't negotiate. They were aware of Earth & actively trying to get there. This puts not only the entire planet but the entire galaxy at risk from a dangerous new enemy. Meaning that on board Daedalus originally would have been a new commander that would have taken over the expidition.

If she did manage to scrape by & hang on in, after what happened in 'Allies' then she would most certainly be out on her ear. Then with Asurans not only looking for Atlantis, but now Earth as well. Then again she failed to negotiate with them. So realistically she should have been gone as a leader long ago. Perhaps she could have remained in charge of the civilian members or whatever, but given the threats of the Wraith & now Asurans. It can only be military that is in charge of the day to day running of the expedition.

McKay, should also have gone as a character by now. He would probably be back in Area 51 or wherever for some of his blunderings. After destroying an uber energy weapon, ultimate power source & also a large majority of a solar system, then he'd be a goner. Not to mention wasting a ZPM in 'McKay & Mrs Miller'. While tamepring with the Asurans base code, allowing them to re-write themselves. Meaning they were able to wipe out the returning Lanteans because of it.

Teyla wopuld be gone because of the risk she poses thanks to her Wraith DNA in her genetic makeup. She has directly been influenced by Michael, Wraith Queen. While also being taken over by others when attempting to blend with their minds.

Ford would have been gone because of the addiction which endangered the entire city in 'TSIII'. Also including 'Lost City' & 'Runner' which proves he is a danger, not only to himself but those around him as well.

Shep as well would be gone. 'Hot Zone' actions put the whole of the expedition members at risk. Failed miserably in 'The Brotherhood' with the ZPM con. Got badly done over in 'Coup D'Etat' & lost them a spanking new ZPM. Would also carry the can for the events of 'Allies' along with Weir. May not be sent home like the others but would certainly be replaced by at least a couple of more senior military personnel. 1 to stay on base at all times, while another in the mould of Sumner, who can go off-world on missions.

Ronon, has proven to be a sort of loose cannon at times. However he's getting better all the time, so given what he can bring to the team, he'd most certainly be kept as long as he continued to follow orders. While if it was a more military type general in charge, who had the same goals as wiping out the Wraith etc, then I'm sure Ronon wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

Certainly after all the troubles that they have faced & the threats that now exists, then Weir wouldn't be in charge any longer. It's been made clear that Wraith aren't interested in negotiating, while Asurans may be even worse because they aren't restricted like the Wraith are in technological terms.

Shep also wouldn't be military commander either. I think Caldwell would have been the perfect choice to come in, maybe have Weir work under him also (at least for a spell). This would create a lot of new drama & tension between the team members. Caldwell wants this done, Shep doesn't but is forced to bow to seniority & carry them out etc. So think they missed the boat a little bit by not giving Mitch Pileggi a main cast spot for S4!

parisindy
April 19th, 2007, 05:00 PM
remember rainbow is reoccuring as well and when did you last see him?

i think Torri won't be around long and thats a crime

there was 10 seasons of sam i certainly don't need anymore

Uber
April 19th, 2007, 05:07 PM
remember rainbow is reoccuring as well and when did you last see him?

i think Torri won't be around long and thats a crime

there was 10 seasons of sam i certainly don't need anymoreTorri leaving and Amanda coming to SGA are unrelated issues.

Per Joe Mallozzi: "As I stated in a previous entry, the decision on the Weir character was made BEFORE the decision to bring in Carter. If it hadn’t been Carter, it would have been someone else."

So...If you want to be upset about the decision they made about Weir, that's fine and you're certainly entitled and of course it's also fine if you don't care for Carter. Just keep in mind that it's not an issue of Sam vs. Weir...but rather, Sam vs. some other person we don't know. Why? Because "If it hadn't been Carter, it would have been someone else."

parisindy
April 19th, 2007, 05:14 PM
Torri leaving and Amanda coming to SGA are unrelated issues.

Per Joe Mallozzi: "As I stated in a previous entry, the decision on the Weir character was made BEFORE the decision to bring in Carter. If it hadn’t been Carter, it would have been someone else."

So...If you want to be upset about the decision they made about Weir, that's fine and you're certainly entitled and of course it's also fine if you don't care for Carter. Just keep in mind that it's not an issue of Sam vs. Weir...but rather, Sam vs. some other person we don't know. Why? Because "If it hadn't been Carter, it would have been someone else."

personaly it doesn't matter which came first the chicken or the egg.. i still don't want the chicken

I don't want sam on sg-1 no matter what, she had ten seasons and i don't need to watch her anymore.

and Torri should stay on, we need her, any excuse they have come up for her not being on the show is ridiculously hollow

I am an atlantis fan not an sg-1 fan, sg-1 was okay but i was never truly invested in it. Atlantis had my heart.. for three seasons at least

ToasterOnFire
April 19th, 2007, 05:59 PM
TPTB ruined the character, period.

She started out with oodles of potential (being a civilian diplomat, thrown into the shoes of the leader of an alien/human colony), and they never developed anything for her. During the "Michael/Retrovirus Story Arc" her command decisions were inconsistent at best, and her personality/moral code made a 180 every 15-minutes.

Torri complained about this, and they didn't choose to listen, but preferred to destroy their female lead to move along a poorly thought out arc.

Did Torri do a bad job? No.
Damn straight. Weir was hired for her position because of her excellent diplomatic abilities. How often did TPTB explore that ability? More importantly, how often did they explore that ability and have her be successful? Not nearly enough, her negotiation abilities were often crammed into the story to give her something to do and her tactics would fail more than was believable for a top-notch diplomat (The Game comes to mind). Every time I watched these scenes they just screamed to me that TPTB don't know how to write negotiations well, so they futzed a bit with Weir, actually made things worse with her character, and then ran back to the safety of McKay and Shep.

Weir was the leader of the city and as such stayed on base while the team cavorted around offworld. Season one led me to believe that we would also get to know what's happening on Atlantis while the team screws things up, like in The Brotherhood. A plot: Ooh, is that a ZPM? B plot: Weir and the crew defend the city from the wraith. Weir could have been making decisions on exploration of the city and what they found, bringing the military and scientist branches together when things get nasty, developing relations with the Athosians or other groups. But no, instead we got episodes where Weir said goodbye to the team or bit her nails worrying about the team or welcomed the team back at the end. What a waste of potential. It's becoming more and more obvious that TPTB are sticking with what they know, borrowing SG1 ideas for episodes and going back to the one-track SG1 team-based philosophy instead of pursuing episodes divided between the team and what's going on at Atlantis.

IMO, the writers don't know what to do with Teyla either, but she wasn't on the immediate hot seat because she was team, and team is where it's at now. :mckay:

parisindy
April 19th, 2007, 06:01 PM
well said! green you if i could

belanna30
April 19th, 2007, 06:02 PM
I'm a fan of both series. I have no problems with AT/Sam coming over really.

I guess, and this is personal opinion NOT fact. I am a HUGE Weir fan.

In regards to that, I agree that if Atlantis gets really military focussed, having a military commander makes more sense. However, I'm really torn. After Return Part 1 and how much she hated NOT being Atlantis, would she take a demotion to stay? I'm not real certain how that would work. The IOA ordering her to step down? I have a hard time believing that one.

Also, (in my sad, sad Shep/Weir sparky ship) if she was demoted and decided to stay as a true negotiator/translater (more ala Daniel's place in SG-1) that leaves a whole lot of potential there and just more interaction with all of the characters.

Anyway, those were just some of my thoughts.

bluealien
April 20th, 2007, 01:44 AM
I don't know what the writers intended for Weir but her character never developed beyond a meet and greet, or standing at the gate wringing her hands. Wringing her hands everytime someone was in danger didnt really give her character an air of confidence. We never got to see the great negotiating skills she was ment to pocess and instead of coming across as someone skilled in the art of negotiation, Weir came across as condesending and rude on too many occasions. Getting annoyed with the people you are negotiating should not be a trait of a skilled negotiator. She came across as being way out of her depth.

A non military leader was put in charge innitially because the expedition was ment to be about research and not being in midst of a war. But Weir has no experience whatsover in military affairs and it would have been better if we had seen more imput from Sheppard in season two or from military in general - but all we got was Weir making the decisions and pretty bad decisions. In Hot Zone she should have worked with Sheppard straight away. It was a security risk and she excludes the military head of Atlantis. Tells him to stay in his room. If Shep hadn't disobeyed her orders would she have been able to save the city - as it was Sheppard who saved everyone in the end. She IMO didnt stand out as a strong leader and also the writing was very inconsistant for her. With Atlantis being in constant danger and therefore putting Earth in danger was it reasonable to leave a non military person in charge who has no experience in military warfare.


Maybe the tpb had a vision for how Weir was going to be and it wasn't panning out as they expected, or their direction of the show is changing over the years, and with the focus being on the gate team it was becoming increasingly difficult to give Weir something to do.

They were never going to focus on Atlantis based eps, as JF said they are just too expensive to produce due to creating the necessary sets.

Carter will be in less eps and shoot for 3/4 days per ep so she will not be a focus on the show but with her military and scientific experience she can - if needed to - do a lot more than just wave everyone off. She has the skills to stand in IF needed in the science and mililtary areas - something Weir could never do.

Blower'sGate
April 20th, 2007, 02:56 AM
Again, it's tptb's mistake. They did a good job with Team Sheppard overall. But I thought Atlantis, whilst following what made its older brother SG-1 fascinating : the team aspect, brought a distinctive aspect. And the writers chose Weir as the leader of the expedition for that. The basic idea was great, having a civilian leader, let alone a woman in charge of the city. Truly, imo a great move at the time from the writers' part. But due to budget cuts and probably some lack of ability to write strong female characters, they couldn't keep up with it. Let's take SGA back to its roots, let's have SGA-1 team O'Neill Sheppard. Then Weir ( even if she had much more screentime in s2 ) became this weak leader. Actually what I'm going to say is mean toward both the character and the show : Her weakness as a leader is what make the show Team Sheppard good but also what makes the Stargate Atlantis so sad to watch at times. Don't get me wrong subjectively I love this show and I love every aspects of it. But in its whole it's too inconsistent. If we can't have many Atlantis' centered episode bc of budget cuts, that doesn't mean we can't have 2 plots in one episode : an Atlantis on one hand and a Shep' s Team on the other hand ( like Toaster said ).

And if people want to talk about realistic approachs, don't bc if the show were that realistic, none of the characters we know and have grown to love would be a part of this expedition. But, oh wait! Why are they still on Atlantis then? Bc they managed to save the city back in s1! Weir could have been this amazing leader, confident and the writers knew that. But they couldn't make her perfect, she had to have flaws bc this show is based on RL too, and no leader in this world is perfect. Other than that, tptb had plots to follow through and if Weir's decisions were always good, the episode would only last about 5 mn and Shep's Team wouldn't be needed. Tptp had to choose between many genras, this show isn't the West Wing, it's Stargate Atlantis ( sci fi, action, adventure... ). Twentie episodes a year and the character of Weir never made bad calls imo, bc to me it was necessary to the plot. So in a way, without Weir, we wouldn't have had 'a few' of these great SGA's stories.

On a personal note, Weir's my fave character along with Sheppard and McKay bc they represent Earth and the initial expedition. I love Teyla and Ronon as well in a very different aspect bc they represent the Pegasus Galaxy, they make the show what it is : diplomacy ( bc they've grown to trust their new allies ) but it's also about war. A war that can't be fought with words, bc it's a sci fi show. So Weir in this has to be out of the equation. She can try but it can never work out. We need space battles and action scenes.

Maybe it's not fair to Torri bc she couldn't have as much screen time as Joe or David. Maybe the writers shouldn't have put Weir in charge from the begining bc it's not realistic, or whatever. But imo, her command of the city is pretty much the only realistic part of the show politicaly wise, she's the perfect leader bc she's not flawless. And the funny thing is so aren't the writers. And in a way I'm so thankful for that.

That's why as a Weir fan I'm going to keep on watching the show. Bc I want to see what they have in store for the great leader that once was.

Just my two cents.

Southern Red
April 20th, 2007, 04:55 AM
Maybe it's not fair to Torri bc she couldn't have as much screen time as Joe or David. Maybe the writers shouldn't have put Weir in charge from the begining bc it's not realistic, or whatever. But imo, her command of the city is pretty much the only realistic part of the show politicaly wise, she's the perfect leader bc she's not flawless. And the funny thing is so aren't the writers. And in a way I'm so thankful for that.

That's why as a Weir fan I'm going to keep on watching the show. Bc I want to see what they have in store for the great leader that once was.

Just my two cents.

BG, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I think Weir is perfect in her imperfection. Maybe that's what TPTB intended her to be all along, or maybe they just couldn't figure out what to do with her. Who knows? But it would have been a completely different show if she had made different decisions.

Let's say from the beginning she made brilliant deals negotiating with every alien civilization they met, Atlantis thrived and peace reigned in the Pegasus Galaxy. How boring would that have been? The very fact that Shep was a miserable negotiator who frequently caused more harm than good and ended up getting them into a huge war that might result in not only the destruction of Atlantis but Earth itself is good drama. You have to have screw ups to make a show interesting. I think all these bad decisions and plans that backfire were part of the master plan.

Now maybe they could have given Elizabeth more to do in some episodes, but noone can dispute her importance in eps like BIS. She is the anchor that keeps them on an even keel most of the time. She's the place they come home to and the one who slaps them down when they get too full of themselves, e.g. Trinity, The Game. I see her as the center around which the action revolves.

If they want to change the tone of the show and give it a more military atmosphere, then Sam Carter will fill the bill. But that seems to defeat the original purpose of having a civilian leader. It would be easy enough to strengten her character and make her the strong leader she was advertised as. Getting rid of her entirely is just another step towards Atlantis: SG-1, which IMHO is going to lose a lot of viewers who just get bored with the same old same old and wander off.

belanna30
April 20th, 2007, 06:38 PM
Here here!

SazZat
April 25th, 2007, 02:23 AM
I agree with you BG

I don't understand why people see Elizabeth's inperfection as a person as a bad thing. Reality check: people are not perfect
I think it was always the intentions of TPTB to have this character who was a little out of her depth and a little unsure of herself. Elizabeth even says so in Intruders about not being an adventurer and that she was terrified of first going on the mission.
What makes Elizabeth an interesting character is her imperfections. It makes all the situation she faces so much more interesting to watch, because she has to deal with it and fight with her own faults.
I can never relate to the perfect Mary-Sue type characters...and I know a lot of people really hate Mary-Sue characters. So it does surprise me that the one thing a lot of people seem to moan about Elizabeth is the fact that she isn't a Mary-Sue.
Her character has stayed on course and stuck to who she is: a normal woman thrown into an alien situation, now trying to deal with it the best she can while learning about her faults on the way and trying to deal with everything life is throwing at her, even though she knows that sometimes she is out of her depth.
If she was perfect then I wouldn't even care for her. I'm quite odd in that I always end up really loving the characters who have the obvious flaws in their personality. The ones you can guarentee will mess up at some point or another. Because the best thing for me is seeing how they deal with it and overcome it, or admit they've made mistakes and stuff...like at the end of Critical Mass for Elizabeth. Or the end of Trinity for McKay. Elizabeth, McKay and Sheppard are love because they are the ones who aren't perfect and for me, what I look for in a character is that.

I've completely lost the point of this post but anyhow.
I'm not gonna pretend that I'm not bothered by Sam taking control of Atlantis, because to start with I was. I was a little worried. Now though, I'm quite excited about season 4 and what it might bring. I hope that Elizabeth gets a good storyline for her exit and recurring status. If it's done well then it could do wonders for her character. I'd like to see her thrown into a difficult and maybe tragic situation (for her and her friends on Atlantis).
Sam coming to Atlantis I will get used to. It's one of those things that is just happening. Things evolve. Her inclusion on Atlantis is just one of those things.
I'd rather see Elizabeth remain in charge at the end of the day, but now I'm thinking about it, if they get Elizabeth out and put her in a doomed situation then that could be fascinating also and she'll probably get more development in 4 episodes than Sam will get in all 14 of hers. That's providing they don't just ship Elizabeth back to Earth.

PG15
April 26th, 2007, 06:01 PM
That sounds like BS to me; it's best not to let that "rumor" spread.

the fifth man
April 26th, 2007, 06:42 PM
That sounds like BS to me; it's best not to let that "rumor" spread.

I sure hope it doesn't spread too much. That would just be more reason for those already against AT joining SGA to hate her joining the cast.

smushybird
April 26th, 2007, 06:47 PM
Here's some facts (and spoilers for "Lifeline") for you all:

Link! (http://bp1.blogger.com/_bu0vVgPPyEs/Rg3Qo6YPkuI/AAAAAAAACZg/zVRFKP3cGhI/s1600-h/DSC03126.JPG)

It's a "shot" (probably in between takes) from "Lifeline" showing that special someone everyone is talking about. ;)


That looks awfully photo-shopped. Are you sure it's not?

Killdeer
April 26th, 2007, 07:06 PM
That looks awfully photo-shopped. Are you sure it's not?

It's not. This photo was posted on Joe Mallozzi's blog just as it appears here. Check out the March 30th entry.

TameFarrar
April 26th, 2007, 10:26 PM
Hi Everyone,

Lets not post any rumors that are stating actions of ANY of the actors. This violates two of our Forum Policies

No Private Life Discussion of the Actors
Respect the cast and crew

posting and further speculation of unsubstantiated rumors about the Actors themselves that attribute actions to those people is wrong and completely disrespectful.

Thank You
TameFarrar
GateWorld Moderator

Kinky_Carter
April 27th, 2007, 11:11 AM
I can tell alot of people are happy that Elizabeth is reduced to a recurring role. But I couldn't be more depressed. I love Elizabeth, my fave character of the show. She should be added more into the show, not lessened. I mean they've shown with SG-1 that you can have a civvie go on adventures.

Elizabeth may be out of commission for awhile. But maybe that experience will change her for the better. Make her braver and possibly make her want to go out on missions with John and the others, while Sam takes control there. I'm not sure what they have in store for her, but I really really hope Elizabeth stays for the long run.

belanna30
April 29th, 2007, 03:22 PM
I have to agree. Weir is my favorite character as well. Although, I enjoy the John/Rodney show just as much as everyone else, I think there is a ton of potential to her character that no one has made a chance to exploit. Now, has she done everything right? No. Has anyone else on the show? Maybe Teyla. . . . that's a maybe.

I am sad that she is being reduced to recurring, but I still want to see her as part of Atlantis and keeping her as "part" of the team. (Besides, I'm a sparky fan. .. . So, the more Elizabeth/John interaction the better.)

Still, we have never heard the final count on how many episodes for Season 4 and with

* Teyla's pregnancy *

I will say that I am going to be a selfish person and I hope that we will see a good amount of Weir to help fill out Teyla's "off" time.

So, I'm trying to have a positive outlook.

Liam24
May 2nd, 2007, 05:21 AM
I just find this decision really bizarre... Weir leaving Atlantis? What the heck for? She's pretty much the only reason I watch the show... she's freakin amazing... The show doesn't have that much going on for it plotwise anyway these days... I mean, replicators? AGAIN?

And the solution is to get rid of the most enduring, interesting and well acted characters on the show? WHO WRITES THIS S***?

Considering I only watched half of season three, I doubt I'll be watching much more now that Weir is going the way of recurring...

Just registered to post that...

Good luck everyone!

Liam.

Killdeer
May 3rd, 2007, 05:46 PM
Tonight I picked up the latest Stargate magazine from Barnes & Noble. There's a lengthy interview with Torri Higginson, titled "Weir & Now." I thought it was a great article. Here's some quotes (spoilered for length):

On Weir's leadership skills:

"I think [Weir's] made a good leader," suggests actress Torri Higginson. "They are in a situation for which there is no way to prepare. She could have had a little bit more spine at times. Weir allowed her lack of experience with certain things to be affected by people's military and political pressure. But I think what made her a good leader is that she was able to say, 'I don't know this. You guys do know so I leave it up to you.' And having to deal with the military and male macho ego, I think she held her own quite well."

On Weir's controversial decisions:

"I was surprised by how they wrote her in Michael. I was surprised they had her say yes to that torture situation and using him as an experiment. That surprised me and at the same time, it surprised me that when it was as easy as turning someone over to save one of your own, she couldn't do it. In a way, they seemed like contradictions of where she's coming from, but I found a way to play with it, that she had great regrets about not only the torture issues in an earlier episode but then the Michael issue and the experimental issue. Those decisions really haunt her. That was what gave Weir the strenth of principal in that time when she wasn't willing to trade the Genii for her own person. She needed to do that to make amends for the line she crossed before."

Killdeer
May 3rd, 2007, 06:06 PM
And a few more quotes (again spoilered for length, and some spoilers for the end of Season 3):

Favorite writer for Weir:

"I find Carl Binder seems to have the most joy writing for Weir and that shows through my mind," reflects Higginson. "He gives her places to be human and to be a woman. It is hard to write a leader who is not military and it is doubly hard to write a non military female leader in a very military world. They've done a great job but it is a huge challenge but whenever I get a script from Carl where Weir is present, I am excited about it."

Weir and the team:

"One thing that has been interesting for me is whenever they've done a Weir-centric episode, she's usually having to act on her own. She's not a part of the team. In Before I Sleep, it was me acting with me. In The Long Goodbye, I was on my own throughout the city. The biggest joy for me as an actor usually is interaction with another human being. I was trained to believe acting is not acting; you are reacting to what the person is giving you. Yet the way the writers have written Weir's situation is that whenever she has something meaty to do, it is usually her by herself. That is frightening to carry it all, and where do I find it? How do I make it interesting, because it can get very boring to look at one person too long. I felt it was a great challenge."

The episode The Real World:

"It was something I was looking forward to because it is an aspect that I have struggled with," admits Higginson. "I've felt Weir's been written one dimensionally and that has been one of my issues, trying to find a balance with her. The writers and I try to find a common ground with who they think Weir is and who I think she is. I think what makes people interesting is seeing those vulnerabilities, no matter what genre you are looking at. I was really looking forward to being able to show that side of her."

Beckett's death and its affect on Weir:

"Oh gosh. That is another thing we talk about," says Higginson. "It is interesting because it is not a character driven show but a plot driven show. I think that is where the writers get frustrated with the actors because we are always up there going "Wait a minute! We just lost one of our guys! Can't it be referenced in the next episode?" Their modus operandi is 'No, this is part of a plot driven show and logistically, we don't know the order of how they will be airing.' I have an issue with that. There was an episode where a new doctor is introduced and I said, 'In this scene, please can I show some sadness? Can there be a beat of that?' And they didn't want to, and I think fans are very loyal to certain characters. I understand where they are coming from but I felt we were missing something, some level of emotion."

Torri's move to recurring status:

"I was told right when we wrapped that there would be changes and that it was my choice if I want to come back and do some recurring [work] or walk away," states Higginson. "Weir is an interesting character and if she's up there working, that would be fun to do because it's a great bunch of people in Vancouver. I'd love to go back and revisit so we'll see what happens and go from there."

Celcool
May 4th, 2007, 01:28 AM
Kildeer, that interview is awesome. Torri has some smart ideas for her character and shares our concerns about the way Elizabeth is used. I wish they would listen to her. One of the things she said I liked is what people here on GW have been discussing, about the characters showing sadness over another character dying in the episodes following. Totally with her on that! That scene with Keller in FS would've been different if they let her show some emotion.


I just find this decision really bizarre... Weir leaving Atlantis? What the heck for? She's pretty much the only reason I watch the show... she's freakin amazing... The show doesn't have that much going on for it plotwise anyway these days... I mean, replicators? AGAIN?

And the solution is to get rid of the most enduring, interesting and well acted characters on the show? WHO WRITES THIS S***?

Considering I only watched half of season three, I doubt I'll be watching much more now that Weir is going the way of recurring...

Just registered to post that...

Good luck everyone!

Liam.
Greened ya. Yeah, good luck to us all.

belanna30
May 4th, 2007, 08:24 PM
Great interview. I'm going to have to track it down and read it. Lord, this stinks that she's recurring!

Sorry, I know that this isn't helpful at all to anyone and that I don't feel like I am adding. I guess I just need to go to bed and think about something else for awhile.

nowvoyager908
May 6th, 2007, 06:40 PM
Great interview. I'm going to have to track it down and read it. Lord, this stinks that she's recurring!

Sorry, I know that this isn't helpful at all to anyone and that I don't feel like I am adding. I guess I just need to go to bed and think about something else for awhile.


I know how you feel. Every time I watch an episode and I see how Elizabeth (and Carson of course) interact with the rest of the cast, and how important they are to the team dynamic, it hits home how much of a huge hole will be left to fill when they are gone. I can't shake the feeling that tossing Weir aside like yesterday's trash will prove to be a big mistake on the part of TPTB. It just strikes me as wrong in so many ways. :(

Killdeer
May 6th, 2007, 06:57 PM
I know how you feel. Every time I watch an episode and I see how Elizabeth (and Carson of course) interact with the rest of the cast, and how important they are to the team dynamic, it hits home how much of a huge hole will be left to fill when they are gone. I can't shake the feeling that tossing Weir aside like yesterday's trash will prove to be a big mistake on the part of TPTB. It just strikes me as wrong in so many ways. :(

ITA. After watching Tao of Rodney this weekend, I just kept thinking about next season when she won't be there any more. It's going to be a definite loss. Losing both Weir and Carson...gah, its like they've carved the emotional heart out of the team. Who's left to give the personal touch? Just Teyla, and she's going to have her own issues next year.

Agent_Dark
May 6th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Torri's move to recurring status:
"I was told right when we wrapped that there would be changes and that it was my choice if I want to come back and do some recurring [work] or walk away," states Higginson. "Weir is an interesting character and if she's up there working, that would be fun to do because it's a great bunch of people in Vancouver. I'd love to go back and revisit so we'll see what happens and go from there."

That's interesting. First Strike aired in Canada in February, and they would have had to have wrapped up principal photography well before that. Those leaked interviews with Weir's fate came out mid-January right? That sounds to me like they had decided on Weir and Season 4 before they'd even finished filming, possibly writing, Season 3...

Killdeer
May 6th, 2007, 08:17 PM
That's interesting. First Strike aired in Canada in February, and they would have had to have wrapped up principal photography well before that. Those leaked interviews with Weir's fate came out mid-January right? That sounds to me like they had decided on Weir and Season 4 before they'd even finished filming, possibly writing, Season 3...

I think you're right. It was interesting to me because it was the first confirmation I'd seen that TH's reduced role was not her idea. Maybe that's been confirmed other places and I just missed it. But I know I have seen speculation on whether it was TPTB's decision or TH's, since we had heard nothing from the actress until now.

This seems to confirm that TPTB decided to remove TH/Weir before the season ended, as you said. They then wrote First Strike in such a way so as to accommodate whatever choice she made, leaving completely, or doing some recurring work. I wonder if she even knew when they were shooting First Strike, what was going to happen? She said she was told right when they wrapped....

Agent_Dark
May 6th, 2007, 09:51 PM
What I get out of that is that the descion regarding Weir was a long time coming them - as in it would have been talked about long before the end of S3. It was no 'wake up and decide to off her' or 'network sent an email yesterday telling us to get rid of her'.

Killdeer
May 6th, 2007, 10:08 PM
What I get out of that is that the descion regarding Weir was a long time coming them - as in it would have been talked about long before the end of S3. It was no 'wake up and decide to off her' or 'network sent an email yesterday telling us to get rid of her'.

No, I wasn't saying that. :confused: I really didn't get much out of that about how long they'd thought about it. It just seemed like Torri didn't know about it until then, or at least didn't know for sure. Honestly, the main thing I got from the quote was just that it wasn't Torri's choice to leave/be recurring. I can't really guess how long TPTB had planned it just from this quote, although I would imagine at least long enough to write First Strike the way they did.

Agent_Dark
May 6th, 2007, 10:32 PM
No, I wasn't saying that. :confused:
I never said you did... o.O

Killdeer
May 6th, 2007, 10:42 PM
I never said you did... o.O

Oh ok! :o

vaberella
May 7th, 2007, 07:54 AM
What I get out of that is that the descion regarding Weir was a long time coming them - as in it would have been talked about long before the end of S3. It was no 'wake up and decide to off her' or 'network sent an email yesterday telling us to get rid of her'.

Yeah, I think it was common knowledge that some people may end up leaving, just not whom and how. I also think I have to agree it might be focus group related. This has been mentioned within my chat circle before...and the person who mentioned it, might be right---since it was sort of implied by JM in his blog.

the dancer of spaz
May 7th, 2007, 10:02 AM
Yeah, I think it was common knowledge that some people may end up leaving, just not whom and how. I also think I have to agree it might be focus group related. This has been mentioned within my chat circle before...and the person who mentioned it, might be right---since it was sort of implied by JM in his blog.

I don't know how I feel about JM confirming that in his blog. In one way, like you vaberella, it confirms the theories I'd read weeks ago. On the other hand... Ouch. :S

If it's focus group related, and they simply get rid of the character, it's almost like they're placing all of the blame upon the shoulders of the actor, instead of working with the actor to rectify whatever is "wrong" with the character in the first place. :(

the dancer of spaz
May 7th, 2007, 10:07 AM
That's interesting. First Strike aired in Canada in February, and they would have had to have wrapped up principal photography well before that. Those leaked interviews with Weir's fate came out mid-January right? That sounds to me like they had decided on Weir and Season 4 before they'd even finished filming, possibly writing, Season 3...

That sounds about right, for sure. Some of Torri's fans were talking about her status being in jeopardy as far back as October/November, IIRC. However, because the facts were unsubstantiated at the time, I don't think anyone really believed that it was a problem.

Suzotchka
May 7th, 2007, 10:09 AM
I don't know how I feel about JM confirming that in his blog. In one way, like you vaberella, it confirms the theories I'd read weeks ago. On the other hand... Ouch. :S

If it's focus group related, and they simply get rid of the character, it's almost like they're placing all of the blame upon the shoulders of the actor, instead of working with the actor to rectify whatever is "wrong" with the character in the first place. :(

I've heard this "focus group" theory/rumor before too. I'm not sure what to think of it quite honestly. If that's the only reason they're getting rid of a character, it seems unwise to me.

And I agree with you, the blame doesn't belong on the shoulders of the *actor* it should be on the *writers*.

Celcool
May 7th, 2007, 10:13 AM
I've heard this "focus group" theory/rumor before too. I'm not sure what to think of it quite honestly. If that's the only reason they're getting rid of a character, it seems unwise to me.

And I agree with you, the blame doesn't belong on the shoulders of the *actor* it should be on the *writers*.
But wait a minute, JM himself said that he doesn't put much stock in focus groups so why would this be the reason for the recurring status? Doesn't make sense to me if he doesn't trust those results. Must be something else but I can't think of any other (justified) reason if it really isn't connected to the arrival of Tapping like he's claiming it isn't.

Suzotchka
May 7th, 2007, 10:14 AM
That sounds about right, for sure. Some of Torri's fans were talking about her status being in jeopardy as far back as October/November, IIRC. However, because the facts were unsubstantiated at the time, I don't think anyone really believed that it was a problem.

Yes, there was talk of it back in Oct/Nov and some fans did try to bring it up but were pretty much ignored because most people never thought they'd actually get rid of Weir.

Celcool
May 7th, 2007, 10:17 AM
Yes, there was talk of it back in Oct/Nov and some fans did try to bring it up but were pretty much ignored because most people never thought they'd actually get rid of Weir.
It was too unbelievable they'd actually go through with getting rid of the leading lady. I didn't want to believe it myself.

Suzotchka
May 7th, 2007, 10:19 AM
But wait a minute, JM himself said that he doesn't put much stock in focus groups so why would this be the reason for the recurring status? Doesn't make sense to me if he doesn't trust those results. Must be something else but I can't think of any other (justified) reason if it really isn't connected to the arrival of Tapping like he's claiming it isn't.

I'm not sure what he thinks of focus groups. Check out this latest answer on his blog:


Anonymous #2 writes: “ The Beckett and Weir fans online are indicative of the way 'casual' viewers feel.”

Answer: Okay. But what if focus group testing of non-online fandom suggests findings that are opposite to what online fandom suggests? Say online fans want more A but focus group fans want a lot less A? Should we be paying more attention to one sampling than the other? Or should we be mindful of both and continue to make the show we always have?

Killdeer
May 7th, 2007, 10:22 AM
That sounds about right, for sure. Some of Torri's fans were talking about her status being in jeopardy as far back as October/November, IIRC. However, because the facts were unsubstantiated at the time, I don't think anyone really believed that it was a problem.

I know I certainly didn't! I first heard some rumblings about the time the rumors about Carson came out, but I figured they'd never get rid of their lead actress! :S That was back in the days when I was still fairly happily optimistic about the show and didn't assume the worst whenever I heard a new rumor or news report. *rueful grin* Ahhhh, those were the days.... :D

Celcool
May 7th, 2007, 10:29 AM
I'm not sure what he thinks of focus groups. Check out this latest answer on his blog:
I saw that in the SEW thread. So the results are ambiguous, does that mean he chooses himself which results to follow, he basically does what he wants so focus groups don't decide anything in the end.

Btw. I was using his exact words from that audio interview he did recently, he said he doesn't put much stock in focus groups because the results contradict themselves. I think it depends on who the people asked the questions are. If most of them are Sg-1 fans then of course they would want SG-1 crossovers on Atlantis but if the majority are Atlantis fans then they probably wouldn't want that. I think he should listen to Atlantis fans when the show that's asked about is Atlantis.

mcbarr
May 7th, 2007, 10:36 AM
Even if an impartial focus group wants a lot less A, does it necessarily mean it wants 11 years of B? I don't know, but it seems the guy is paying attention to this crappy focus group because it justifies what he wanted to do all along. With just two eps for Carson and 4 for Weir so far, it's hard to believe he's taking into account online fans' sampling.

Suzotchka
May 7th, 2007, 10:45 AM
Even if an impartial focus group wants a lot less A, does it necessarily mean it wants 11 years of B? I don't know, but it seems the guy is paying attention to this crappy focus group because it justifies what he wanted to do all along. With just two eps for Carson and 4 for Weir so far, it's hard to believe he's taking into account online fans' sampling.

I guess it all comes down to ratings. For me, what I don't understand, is if Carson & Weir fans are upset and lets say they don't watch the show, and all Sam Carter fans do, how does that equal better ratings? I asked Joe the question about ratings before, but he never answered me. If you alienate and divide your fans, how does that equal better ratings?

And while there are fans who do not like Weir, there are just as many that do. TPTB could've had their cake and eaten it too. Keep Weir as a regular character and bring on Carter as recurring. They would've had the best of both worlds. (I do not consider 4 episodes to be an acceptable compromise at all. Some may say it's better then nothing - but to me, 4 is pretty close to nothing)

I'd also like to know if the focus group supports the show by buying the DVD's, going to the cons, etc. Because I think the online fans are more apt to do that.

PG15
May 7th, 2007, 11:23 AM
And I agree with you, the blame doesn't belong on the shoulders of the *actor* it should be on the *writers*.

We have no proof it's the writers' fault either.

I blame SciFi. :D

the dancer of spaz
May 7th, 2007, 11:47 AM
I know I certainly didn't! I first heard some rumblings about the time the rumors about Carson came out, but I figured they'd never get rid of their lead actress! :S That was back in the days when I was still fairly happily optimistic about the show and didn't assume the worst whenever I heard a new rumor or news report. *rueful grin* Ahhhh, those were the days.... :D

I didn't think they would do that either, and I remember the rumors coming out around the same time as the rumors about Carson. I remember a lot of people thinking it was too preposterous for them to get rid of two main characters. But the fans who'd really *known*, if you can say that, all along were the ones who tried to bring it to light as soon as they heard.


But wait a minute, JM himself said that he doesn't put much stock in focus groups so why would this be the reason for the recurring status? Doesn't make sense to me if he doesn't trust those results. Must be something else but I can't think of any other (justified) reason if it really isn't connected to the arrival of Tapping like he's claiming it isn't.

Based on the comment JM made on his blog, I think he was saying that TPTB were making a compromise... Essentially, they'd follow what the focus groups say to an extent, but keep in mind how the online fandom operates as well. It explains why they were so willing to bring PM back for an ep or two (no mean feat, I'm sure), and why they were willing to keep TH on board, even as a recurring character.

It seems to me - and a lot of this post is pure speculation, and has most likely been said before - that focus groups are for studio suits and network execs, but that TPTB, as we know them from Vancouver, don't take much stock in them. I won't speculate beyond that really, because we don't know enough facts. But I would seriously wager that the "focus groups" card was played by the studio/network, and NOT by Wright/Cooper/Mallozzi & Co. I guess we'll never know either way. Though it would explain why there seemed to be such a compromise on all sides.


I've heard this "focus group" theory/rumor before too. I'm not sure what to think of it quite honestly. If that's the only reason they're getting rid of a character, it seems unwise to me.

And I agree with you, the blame doesn't belong on the shoulders of the *actor* it should be on the *writers*.

I think the success of a character is based on many factors, the biggest of which being a healthy collaboration between actor and producer/writer. When that collaboration is hindered or stunted (as seems to have been the case in S5 of SG-1 between Shanks/TPTB, and in S9 between Tapping/TPTB), the character suffers. Based on TH's interview in the official mag, it seems like that was also the case here. They differed in opinion, perhaps didn't have the time or whatever to follow through on some of her requests/suggestions, and the character was developed accordingly.

A lot of the interview seemed to be laced with thinly-veiled critiques on TH's part, which is not altogether hard to understand. I don't blame her for being disappointed with how the character turned out - especially when you look at how passionate and patient she was in terms of being given a chance to develop Weir.

Both SG-1 and Atlantis have suffered from burgeoning casts. They're ensembles that really couldn't be sustained, considering there was a core group of 8-10 writers-cum-directors-cum-producers who were pumping out 40 episodes a year. It's no wonder that characters, like Weir and a few others, were neglected in the process.


I guess it all comes down to ratings. For me, what I don't understand, is if Carson & Weir fans are upset and lets say they don't watch the show, and all Sam Carter fans do, how does that equal better ratings? I asked Joe the question about ratings before, but he never answered me. If you alienate and divide your fans, how does that equal better ratings?

And while there are fans who do not like Weir, there are just as many that do. TPTB could've had their cake and eaten it too. Keep Weir as a regular character and bring on Carter as recurring. They would've had the best of both worlds. (I do not consider 4 episodes to be an acceptable compromise at all. Some may say it's better then nothing - but to me, 4 is pretty close to nothing)

The thing I think we have to remember is, the audience that counts - the American viewers with Nielsen boxes - probably don't stop watching a show just because one or two characters are gone. Network television is so fickle on its own that I really don't think the "average" viewer is all that surprised when a character suddenly leaves - even if it was the one they enjoyed the most.

We care about the characters, and I'm sure that average viewers care about characters and dynamics as well. But when it comes down to it, the story is what's going to keep the viewers watching. I think that's why they've done such a seemingly huge overhaul on the direction and theme of the show. They need to beef up the content of each episode, while building on the character interactions at the same time.

While I'm sure there are some casual viewers who adore Liz or Carson, I don't think that they're in the kinds of numbers that some people seem to think they are. The same goes for Carter - for all of her popularity, she's merely filling the "SG-1 character" role, one that only logically could've been filled by her and Daniel. She might be able to bring in some of that crossover audience that MGM and SciFi seems to be banking on, but in the end, she's not the sole reason why people (as a whole) will continue watching the series. Just as Liz and Carson are not the reason why people (as a whole) will stop, imo.


I'd also like to know if the focus group supports the show by buying the DVD's, going to the cons, etc. Because I think the online fans are more apt to do that.

The online fans are more likely to go to conventions and buy the DVDs, but if you look at those profits, while they're great for MGM in terms of bragging rights and PR ops, neither MGM nor SciFi receives compensation for the actors' attendance at conventions. And, if I'm not mistaken, MGM has to split a lot of their DVD profits with Fox, which distributes them.

The only medium that matters to the studio and to the network is the aspect of the franchise that is broadcast - first-run and syndication. Everything else is ancillary. The lifespan of the franchise is mostly dependent on how long each respective series stays on the air.

vaberella
May 8th, 2007, 04:24 AM
Even if an impartial focus group wants a lot less A, does it necessarily mean it wants 11 years of B? I don't know, but it seems the guy is paying attention to this crappy focus group because it justifies what he wanted to do all along. With just two eps for Carson and 4 for Weir so far, it's hard to believe he's taking into account online fans' sampling.

What do you mean by online fans? I've been to many a forum where one of the most popular thread is "Kill Weir" right next to "I love Zelenka". GW is not, and very far from, the only site where fans converge to be disgruntled or to gush. And I think this seems to be the problem. Many people seem to come up with numbers or statements using GW as the main source of their proofs. So what is JM to do?!

As for the focus group thing, you may say it's crappy but there is probably more at play in lowering Weir's presence. The focus group apparently is the reason why one of the MAIN characters of HOUSE is being offed. As for the focus group, it wasn't confirmed but implied that they might have been in use...JM did wonder if he said that "focus groups" were used to the result of the Weir status. You may claim focus groups are crappy, and you're probably right, but you have no idea if there were not other factors invovled privately between the creative department and authorities and/or actor. Again, we aren't privy to ALL the details. But she has played a major role in the show and is part of it's fixture for 3 years, I don't think TPTB would lessen her role based entirely on a set of people. They might have had other reasons or who the hell knows...flipped a coin.

Shoot, I'm a flip a coin person myself, especially for tough decisions. <---This is a joke.

All in all, it's to understand that fg's may have been mentioned as an example, nothing to say that there weren't other factors we're not aware of. I personally find it too easy and too simple to use a focus group to eliminate a veteran character myself, I'm sure other issues must have been present.

GateLadyM
May 8th, 2007, 04:45 AM
As for the focus group thing, you may say it's crappy but there is probably more at play in lowering Weir's presence. The focus group apparently is the reason why one of the MAIN characters of HOUSE is being offed. As for the focus group, it wasn't confirmed but implied that they might have been in use...JM did wonder if he said that "focus groups" were used to the result of the Weir status.

JM is denying the "focus group" talk this morning:

Anonymous #r writes: “Since you used focus groups to off Dr. Weir…”

Answer: We did?

Personally, I think it was more a personality conflict between Torri and TPTB. That seems to be the root of set conflicts anyway.

I don't know where you got that info on "House" as everyone is coming back next season. :confused:

vaberella
May 8th, 2007, 05:01 AM
JM is denying the "focus group" talk this morning:

Anonymous #r writes: “Since you used focus groups to off Dr. Weir…”

Answer: We did?

Personally, I think it was more a personality conflict between Torri and TPTB. That seems to be the root of set conflicts anyway.

I don't know where you got that info on "House" as everyone is coming back next season. :confused:

Rumors and not to be funny, but so is Weir on SGA.

In any event... I did mention he used it as an example laced with implication and nothing more in his discussion. I don't know, personality conflicts might be a scenario. But I see that as petty and his earlier mention of "focus groups", says from my perspective that personality may not be the only cause.

We have no idea, one moment we get an implication and secondly we get an idea that it might be part of the whole story. All in all, it really doesn't matter does it----What's done is done and we still don't have the full facts. Until we get a full announcement explaining the details, which I doubt...we'll be jumping at almost any possibility.

mcbarr
May 8th, 2007, 06:04 AM
What do you mean by online fans? I've been to many a forum where one of the most popular thread is "Kill Weir" right next to "I love Zelenka". GW is not, and very far from, the only site where fans converge to be disgruntled or to gush. And I think this seems to be the problem. Many people seem to come up with numbers or statements using GW as the main source of their proofs. So what is JM to do?!

Well, the latest "Yay or Nay to Carter in Atlantis" poll (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=42789) suggests a Carter (SG-1 fans) and Weir (SGA fans) split:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1427/pollvc4.png

Since we have no evidence or reason to believe online fans elsewhere, or even non online fans' sampling would be much different, Dr. Weir should be in as many eps as Carter next season.


JM is denying the "focus group" talk this morning:

Anonymous #r writes: “Since you used focus groups to off Dr. Weir…”

Answer: We did?

LOL If they didn't, WHO did? Skiffy? MGM? :confused:

Suzotchka
May 8th, 2007, 06:13 AM
Well, the latest "Yay or Nay to Carter in Atlantis" poll (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=42789) suggests a Carter (SG-1 fans) and Weir (SGA fans) split:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1427/pollvc4.png

Since we have no evidence or reason to believe online fans elsewhere, or even non online fans' sampling would be much different, Dr. Weir should be in as many eps as Carter next season.



LOL If they didn't, WHO did? Skiffy? MGM? :confused:

Pretty much any poll I've seen about Weir leaving/Carter coming has been split right down the middle. Which leaves me asking again about the ratings question. If you want more people to watch, why not have both?

Of course, some will say Weir is still in the show - she is in 4 episodes. But I think if anyone on GW supported a character on Atlantis that was already a main/regular character and that character ended up getting only 4 episodes they'd be upset/irked too. I do not consider "4" as being an acceptable number - not when we had 20.

Celcool
May 8th, 2007, 06:51 AM
Pretty much any poll I've seen about Weir leaving/Carter coming has been split right down the middle. Which leaves me asking again about the ratings question. If you want more people to watch, why not have both?
Id' be happy if both Weir and Carter would be on the show with equal onscreen time.

One poll of who should be the leader of Atlantis expedition isn't split down the middle though. Elizabeth is leading with 70 % while Carter has 19 %. It's quite clear who the majority folks who voted want.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=6208974#post6208974


Of course, some will say Weir is still in the show - she is in 4 episodes. But I think if anyone on GW supported a character on Atlantis that was already a main/regular character and that character ended up getting only 4 episodes they'd be upset/irked too. I do not consider "4" as being an acceptable number - not when we had 20.
4 isn't acceptable in any way for a character such as Elizabeth Weir, who used to be one of the main characters. The number is insulting to the fans and the actress, quite frankly.

mcbarr
May 8th, 2007, 07:22 AM
One poll of who should be the leader of Atlantis expedition isn't split down the middle though. Elizabeth is leading with 70 % while Carter has 19 %. It's quite clear who the majority folks who voted want.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=6208974#post6208974

Oops, I missed that one... The question is more appropriate, and it has more voters than the one I used. There you go:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8954/poll2uf5.png

Bring back Dr. Weir!! :D

jenks
May 8th, 2007, 08:17 AM
4 isn't acceptable in any way for a character such as Elizabeth Weir, who used to be one of the main characters. The number is insulting to the fans and the actress, quite frankly.

'The fans?' I find that quite insulting, frankly.

mcbarr
May 8th, 2007, 09:04 AM
Well, you shouldn't because you're obviously not a Dr. Weir fan. That's what Celcool meant in case you didn't notice. ;)

Celcool
May 8th, 2007, 09:28 AM
Of course that's what I meant. Thank you, mcbarr. :)

flynn1959
May 8th, 2007, 09:45 AM
Oops, I missed that one... The question is more appropriate, and it has more voters than the one I used. There you go:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8954/poll2uf5.png

Bring back Dr. Weir!! :D

Just goes to show that more people are unhappy with the changes for season four than are happy.

I feel so bad for TH, a wonderful lady who really doesn't deserve any of this. I think TPTB know they have made a really bad decision but just don't have the b**ls to back down now.

Uber
May 8th, 2007, 10:01 AM
Just goes to show that more people are unhappy with the changes for season four than are happy.No it doesn't. It shows that on this forum there are more people who support Weir being in charge that voted in the poll than there were people who support Carter being in charge that voted in the poll.

Further, there are people who aren't happy about the leadership situation but are still excited or cautiously optimistic about Season 4 because of other changes.
I feel so bad for TH, a wonderful lady who really doesn't deserve any of this. I think TPTB know they have made a really bad decision but just don't have the b**ls to back down now.I don't feel bad for her except that I'll miss her presence and hope that the situation is as friendly as it seems to be.

And I don't think it's a bad decision, nor do I think TPTB feel it is either. As much as I appreciate Weir, she was in an untenable position politically. The reality that I saw was that it was only a matter of time before the command structure was militarized given the magnitude of the threats they faced on a regular basis. The only reason they hadn't done it sooner is that they want to maintain their control of the expedition, which they know they'd lose once the city was militarized...but after seeing First Strike, it's pretty clear to me that the IOA has no problems superseding her authority and give command to the military when it suits their purposes.At any rate, Weir isn't going to be there, I am happy that the position is going to be filled by Carter because I think she has skills that will mesh quite nicely in Atlantis. And while I would have preferred that Weir be kept on to be earth's chief negotiator, sadly it's clearly not in the cards.

Suzotchka
May 8th, 2007, 10:24 AM
And I don't think it's a bad decision, nor do I think TPTB feel it is either. As much as I appreciate Weir, she was in an untenable position politically. The reality that I saw was that it was only a matter of time before the command structure was militarized given the magnitude of the threats they faced on a regular basis. The only reason they hadn't done it sooner is that they want to maintain their control of the expedition, which they know they'd lose once the city was militarized...but after seeing First Strike, it's pretty clear to me that the IOA has no problems superseding her authority and give command to the military when it suits their purposes.At any rate, Weir isn't going to be there, I am happy that the position is going to be filled by Carter because I think she has skills that will mesh quite nicely in Atlantis. And while I would have preferred that Weir be kept on to be earth's chief negotiator, sadly it's clearly not in the cards.

Again, I think fandom is pretty much split 50/50. For every person who doesn't want Weir to leave there's 1 who does. For every person who wants Carter not to cross over, there's one who wants her to.

Besides, TPTB have said their intention was that Weir was never going to be gone for good. And I hope that sooner rather then later, they fix what I perceive to be a huge mistake. Because I'm not happy that Carter is going to be coming over (nothing against AT or any of her fans, BTW).

EDIT: I think the SG-1/Atlantis magazine's poll has a better mix of viewers. Results were in their latest issue

flynn1959
May 8th, 2007, 10:36 AM
Again, I think fandom is pretty much split 50/50. For every person who doesn't want Weir to leave there's 1 who does. For every person who wants Carter not to cross over, there's one who wants her to.

Besides, TPTB have said their intention was that Weir was never going to be gone for good. And I hope that sooner rather then later, they fix what I perceive to be a huge mistake. Because I'm not happy that Carter is going to be coming over (nothing against AT or any of her fans, BTW).

I agree with you.

And I don't think that the changes being made will help the show at all, far from it. I am only one viewer and speaking only for myself I have lost interest in the show. I am fed up with getting to know a character or characters only to have them removed. It happened on SG1 and it's happening on Atlantis. I don't feel willing to invest any more of my time on a show when a character I dislike is being introduced as a replacement for one that I do like.

If Weir does come back full time, hopefully with Carson by her side, then so shall I.

And if fandom is split 50/50 then what was the point? For every Carter fan gained they will lose a Weir fan. Then if you factor in the Carson fans who have given up on the show they could be looking at a real big loss next season. Given the ratings this season I don't think they can afford to lose any of the fans.

chocdoc
May 8th, 2007, 11:13 AM
Again, I think fandom is pretty much split 50/50. For every person who doesn't want Weir to leave there's 1 who does. For every person who wants Carter not to cross over, there's one who wants her to.

Besides, TPTB have said their intention was that Weir was never going to be gone for good. And I hope that sooner rather then later, they fix what I perceive to be a huge mistake. Because I'm not happy that Carter is going to be coming over (nothing against AT or any of her fans, BTW).

EDIT: I think the SG-1/Atlantis magazine's poll has a better mix of viewers. Results were in their latest issue



The SG-1/Atlantis magazine poll showed that Weir was more popular than Telya in terms of SGA favorite female character, but not by an overwhelming amount. Sam was also chosen SG-1 female favorite character --- and it was also mentioned that Sam is an "incredibly popular character". (The only other character that was mentioned in terms of being very popular besides Sam was Daniel --"an enormously popular character". Sam is well-liked by this better mix of viewers. Weir is also well-liked, but I think Teyla seems to be too.

There is a split in fandom about whether it is good to have Sam crossover. There is a split also between whether Weir should be reduced or not. But regardless, it is the casual viewer that will matter the most. There is a split in SG-1 fandom on the new direction -- some like it and some do not. But regardless, a large portion of viewers have left SG-1 after the new direction. That is what really mattered -- losing a siginficant proportion of viewers.

It remains to be seen what will happen with SGA. Unfortunately, the ratings for SGA have been going down over the last three seasons regardless. Whether this trend can change given the new changes remains to be seen. It seems that it has already sunk quite low in the ratings with the original team (minus Ford).


I would have liked both Weir and Sam on Atlantis. I would have liked to see interactions between Sam/Weir just like in New Order. For some reason TPTB decided that Weir should be reduced -- I have no idea why but I can only speculate that they want a military leader at this time. They had three possibilities and they went with Sam (we don't know the other two and it seems we never will out of respect for the other actors). Since Weir was going to get reduced regardless of whether Sam or someone else would be the leader, I'm glad they went with Sam. She makes sense to me, given her military and science skills.

I am very surprised that they took the leading lady and reduced her time. I would have been so upset if they had done that to Sam in SG-1. We might not ever know the reasons, but if they wanted a military leader, I'm glad they went with Sam. I am only an occasional viewer of Atlantis. I like it, but I'm not crazy about it like the original SG-1 team. But with Sam there, I'll be watching more regularly. In the meantime, I hope both TH and PM get really good roles that they love while they are not regulars on SGA.

jenks
May 8th, 2007, 11:15 AM
And if fandom is split 50/50 then what was the point? For every Carter fan gained they will lose a Weir fan. Then if you factor in the Carson fans who have given up on the show they could be looking at a real big loss next season. Given the ratings this season I don't think they can afford to lose any of the fans.

Maybe catering to one (or any) part of fandom wasn't even an issue, they just had a vision of what they wanted Atlantis to be, and Weir didn't have a place in it (or atleast less of one).

flynn1959
May 8th, 2007, 11:24 AM
Maybe catering to one (or any) part of fandom wasn't even an issue, they just had a vision of what they wanted Atlantis to be, and Weir didn't have a place in it (or atleast less of one).


Yes, maybe, which is a real shame because I don't think a lot of people are going to be happy with the military taking over. In the present climate that is the last thing a lot of people want to see on tv.

Weir is an interesting character, the fact that she is a civilian adds to that interest. Carter is just another run of the mill Military person, if they wanted to go that way why not promote Sheppard and have him and Weir as joint leaders?

Uber
May 8th, 2007, 12:08 PM
The SG-1/Atlantis magazine poll showed that Weir was more popular than Telya in terms of SGA favorite female character, but not by an overwhelming amount. Sam was also chosen SG-1 female favorite character --- and it was also mentioned that Sam is an "incredibly popular character". (The only other character that was mentioned in terms of being very popular besides Sam was Daniel --"an enormously popular character". Sam is well-liked by this better mix of viewers. Weir is also well-liked, but I think Teyla seems to be too.

There is a split in fandom about whether it is good to have Sam crossover. There is a split also between whether Weir should be reduced or not. But regardless, it is the casual viewer that will matter the most. There is a split in SG-1 fandom on the new direction -- some like it and some do not. But regardless, a large portion of viewers have left SG-1 after the new direction. That is what really mattered -- losing a siginficant proportion of viewers.

It remains to be seen what will happen with SGA. Unfortunately, the ratings for SGA have been going down over the last three seasons regardless. Whether this trend can change given the new changes remains to be seen. It seems that it has already sunk quite low in the ratings with the original team (minus Ford).


I would have liked both Weir and Sam on Atlantis. I would have liked to see interactions between Sam/Weir just like in New Order. For some reason TPTB decided that Weir should be reduced -- I have no idea why but I can only speculate that they want a military leader at this time. They had three possibilities and they went with Sam (we don't know the other two and it seems we never will out of respect for the other actors). Since Weir was going to get reduced regardless of whether Sam or someone else would be the leader, I'm glad they went with Sam. She makes sense to me, given her military and science skills.

I am very surprised that they took the leading lady and reduced her time. I would have been so upset if they had done that to Sam in SG-1. We might not ever know the reasons, but if they wanted a military leader, I'm glad they went with Sam. I am only an occasional viewer of Atlantis. I like it, but I'm not crazy about it like the original SG-1 team. But with Sam there, I'll be watching more regularly. In the meantime, I hope both TH and PM get really good roles that they love while they are not regulars on SGA.I agree with everything you said with one slight difference...and that is I'm not a casual Atlantis viewer. Well that's not true either. I kind of weave in and out...sometimes extremely interested and excited and sometimes more of a casual "take it or leave it" viewer. I've been a lot more interested though for Season 3 and consider myself solidly a fan of the show.

So I would have watched it regardless...but with Carter there, I'm more enthusiastic about it even though I'm not happy about Carson and wish that Weir could have been kept around in some capacity.

the dancer of spaz
May 8th, 2007, 12:23 PM
Pretty much any poll I've seen about Weir leaving/Carter coming has been split right down the middle. Which leaves me asking again about the ratings question. If you want more people to watch, why not have both?

Of course, some will say Weir is still in the show - she is in 4 episodes. But I think if anyone on GW supported a character on Atlantis that was already a main/regular character and that character ended up getting only 4 episodes they'd be upset/irked too. I do not consider "4" as being an acceptable number - not when we had 20.

Yeah, 4 is low. But if it was between the actor and the producers, and they were all open to possibly doing more in the future, it might just be that there were schedule conflicts. With what we know for sure (and without speculation that there were issues between TH and TPTB), I can't imagine TPTB not being open to bringing Weir back, assuming the arc called for it.

I was hoping for 7 episodes total at least, and 10 at the most. :( Wishful thinking, I guess.

And, of course, the polls aren't 100% scientifically accurate, considering I have no doubt that there were a choice few on both sides of the fence who used their sock puppets. There's also the fact that the vast majority of those who responded to the poll are either not from the US, or don't have a Nielsen box. :S

PG15
May 8th, 2007, 12:30 PM
Well, the latest "Yay or Nay to Carter in Atlantis" poll (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=42789) suggests a Carter (SG-1 fans) and Weir (SGA fans) split:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1427/pollvc4.png

Since we have no evidence or reason to believe online fans elsewhere, or even non online fans' sampling would be much different, Dr. Weir should be in as many eps as Carter next season.

There is such a thing as "too small a sample" you know. We're talking about a few hundred fans among millions.

Sure we have no reason to trust other fans, but we have no reason to say that this poll presents the full picture, either.


Pretty much any poll I've seen about Weir leaving/Carter coming has been split right down the middle. Which leaves me asking again about the ratings question. If you want more people to watch, why not have both?

Budget, perhaps?

The fact is, we just don't know.

Team SG-1*save the show*
May 8th, 2007, 12:37 PM
when they said carter was coming to Atlantis i was happy because i thought she would be working along side Mckay. I am disappointed that weir is only going to be in 4 episodes. Why!? even though i am a big fan of SG-1, i still agree Carter does not have the leadership skills to run Atlantis like Weir does.

I am sure that TPTB are not stupid enough to get rid of another character- although i could be wrong. Hopefully weir will again be a regular in future seasons (?):weir:

Agent_Dark
May 8th, 2007, 01:51 PM
why not promote Sheppard and have him and Weir as joint leaders?
Sheppard was already promoted at the start of season 2 (and only when Weir forced the issue) - there's no way he can go up another grade in only 2 years.

mcbarr
May 8th, 2007, 02:17 PM
There is such a thing as "too small a sample" you know. We're talking about a few hundred fans among millions.

Sure we have no reason to trust other fans, but we have no reason to say that this poll presents the full picture, either.

Hmm, are you suggesting Dr. Weir has more fans on GW than Carter? If you take a look at the Carter thread, you will see that it is probably the other way around. And, even so, when asked directly, Weir or Carter as leader of Atlantis, that's how 300+ people voted:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8954/poll2uf5.png

Far from me suggesting any poll is accurate. I don't trust polls. I'm just saying there is no reason to doubt the split (be it 50/50, 60/40 etc.) since both characters are quite popular among Stargate fans. Or are you suggesting the full picture would be something like Carter 90% - Weir 10% or vice versa? If anything, I would give Weir the edge since she's not taking anybody's job.

PG15
May 8th, 2007, 02:19 PM
Technically, since Weir has no rank, Shep is already "Co-leader", as long as he outranks everyone else.

Right?

EDIT: I don't know what the big picture is; I just know not to use these polls to foward an agenda.

Killdeer
May 8th, 2007, 02:26 PM
If I remember correctly, this particular poll (Who should lead the Atlantis expedition?) was set up before we had confirmation that Carter was going to be the leader of Atlantis. It seemed that there were a lot of people who wanted Carter to come over, but still wanted Weir to stay as leader. My point is just that the poll can't necessarily be seen as anti-Carter on Atlantis, or even really accurate, because at the time many people thought they could have both - Carter on Atlantis, and Weir as leader. Their preconceptions may have skewed the numbers. Carter as ship commander was a popular theory. Now that people KNOW that Carter in Atlantis means Carter in Command, those numbers might come out very differently.

Don't know if I'm making sense. Possibly this point isn't even relevant. :S

Blower'sGate
May 8th, 2007, 02:38 PM
I've got a question for you guys.
So considering Weir's mostly out of the picture in S4 ( Weir fans are unhappy ) and Carter's in ( Carter's fans are happy ). In ( a potential ) s5 if Weir's back fulltime and Carter who has established herself in the base ( had great chemistry and made great friendships with the main characters ) is shipped back to earth and won't be returning as a recurring character, what would Carter fans think? Would you be as pissed as the Weir fans as they were during s4? ( even if technically Carter isn't a main character ) Or would you just move on ?

the dancer of spaz
May 8th, 2007, 03:09 PM
I've got a question for you guys.
So considering Weir's mostly out of the picture in S4 ( Weir fans are unhappy ) and Carter's in ( Carter's fans are happy ). In ( a potential ) s5 if Weir's back fulltime and Carter who has established herself in the base ( had great chemistry and made great friendships with the main characters ) is shipped back to earth and won't be returning as a recurring character, what would Carter fans think? Would you be as pissed as the Weir fans as they were during s4? ( even if technically Carter isn't a main character ) Or would you just move on ?

I'm a Carter fan, and I would probably move on. I'd watch S4 whether Carter was on or not. There's also the fact that I'm an AT fan before I'm a Carter fan, and assuming she's got the desire to move on to other projects, I'd rather her take that opportunity, than hang around any longer than necessary.

It'd be nice to see Weir back on full-time, if that were to happen. I don't think it will. But I'd be cool with it if it did.

Blower'sGate
May 8th, 2007, 03:17 PM
I'm a Carter fan, and I would probably move on. I'd watch S4 whether Carter was on or not. There's also the fact that I'm an AT fan before I'm a Carter fan, and assuming she's got the desire to move on to other projects, I'd rather her take that opportunity, than hang around any longer than necessary.

It'd be nice to see Weir back on full-time, if that were to happen. I don't think it will. But I'd be cool with if it did.

Thx for answering ;) -blind faith :p :D

Celcool
May 8th, 2007, 11:12 PM
That a good question, a bit more comparable would be though if Carter would be replaced by Weir in S4 of Sg-1 or S8 when all those changes took place there. Would you be upset then?

I can understand that some Carter fans may not be that upset (so far we only know the opinion of the dancer of spaz so hard to pre-assume) if Weir were to be back full time in S5 and Carter gone because they will have had 11 years of her on Stargate by then while we won't have even half of that with Elizabeth Weir. Also Torri would still love to work on the show while Amanda may want to move on to other projects and nobody would blame her after 11 years of playing the same character.

the dancer of spaz
May 9th, 2007, 09:13 AM
That a good question, a bit more comparable would be though if Carter would be replaced by Weir in S4 of Sg-1 or S8 when all those changes took place there. Would you be upset then?

Yep. I most definitely would.

But I don't understand the point of asking... The issue isn't about whether or not Carter fans would be upset if the roles were reversed, as time and time again, it's been made clear that a lot of Carter fans truly sympathize with Weir fans. There are a lot of Carter fans who understand why Weir fans are upset, and a lot of Carter fans who are bummed that Weir's leaving. :S I guess I just don't see the point. If it's a way of giving these fans a certain bit of perspective, I think it might be a little unnecessary.

ETA: I don't represent the whole Carter fan community or anything, but I have to say that I was in denial that they were getting rid of Elizabeth. I couldn't believe that they were going to do that, even with Sam coming on board, and I continue to remain cautiously optimistic about the prospects of the new season solely because change can be a good thing if handled properly. And sometimes I wonder if TPTB are capable of handling change properly...

At the same time, while I don't have blind faith in TPTB, I am going to assume that the new direction they're taking for the series is going to bring about a whole new dynamic for the characters. With or without Sam or Liz, I think they very well could be onto something cool for the show.

Uber
May 9th, 2007, 09:14 AM
That a good question, a bit more comparable would be though if Carter would be replaced by Weir in S4 of Sg-1 or S8 when all those changes took place there. Would you be upset then?

I can understand that some Carter fans may not be that upset (so far we only know the opinion of the dancer of spaz so hard to pre-assume) if Weir were to be back full time in S5 and Carter gone because they will have had 11 years of her on Stargate by then while we won't have even half of that with Elizabeth Weir. Also Torri would still love to work on the show while Amanda may want to move on to other projects and nobody would blame her after 11 years of playing the same character.It's a false comparison though. It's been stated many, many times...the choice was not between Carter and Weir it was be Carter and some-other-person. All evidence given in interviews and such point to this being the case.

Going back to your point...would I be upset had Carter been removed for S4 of SG-1? Sure. And a part of me would be upset even after learning that she'd be gone whether her "replacement" was there or not.

In the case of Weir though, it's up to you and everyone else to decide whether or not you like or don't like how things play out. It may turn out that Carter's presence screws things up or it may be brilliant.

But isn't it kind of time to stop with the inaccuracies? Carter coming has nothing to do with Weir leaving in the sense that she was leaving regardless...so feel upset about her leaving all you want but at least see how Carter fits before judging it.

Suzotchka
May 9th, 2007, 09:34 AM
But isn't it kind of time to stop with the inaccuracies? Carter coming has nothing to do with Weir leaving in the sense that she was leaving regardless...so feel upset about her leaving all you want but at least see how Carter fits before judging it.

I'm sorry, and this is just my opinion, but I am not buying that TPTB did not know they were going to replace Weir with Carter. They can say whatever they want to say, but I'm not buying into it.

For whatever reason Weir is leaving - they knew they had to fill the spot with someone. Carter may not be the direct reason Weir is leaving, but I think they knew that once the decision was made, they were bringing Carter in. In fact, I think they knew they wanted Carter on the show all along.

Personally, I don't care how well Carter fits into Atlantis. I don't think she belongs there. This is nothing against AT or her fans. But Carter has had 10 years of development. I want the characters already on Atlantis to have development and advance their stories.

Even if it wasn't Carter who was coming over, I'd feel the same way.

the dancer of spaz
May 9th, 2007, 10:03 AM
I'm sorry, and this is just my opinion, but I am not buying that TPTB did not know they were going to replace Weir with Carter. They can say whatever they want to say, but I'm not buying into it.

For whatever reason Weir is leaving - they knew they had to fill the spot with someone. Carter may not be the direct reason Weir is leaving, but I think they knew that once the decision was made, they were bringing Carter in. In fact, I think they knew they wanted Carter on the show all along.

Personally, I don't care how well Carter fits into Atlantis. I don't think she belongs there. This is nothing against AT or her fans. But Carter has had 10 years of development. I want the characters already on Atlantis to have development and advance their stories.

Even if it wasn't Carter who was coming over, I'd feel the same way.

That's unfortunate. Because it is essentially impossible for Carter fans and Weir fans to find common ground if there's a bunch of you who essentially think that TPTB are lying.

Now there's no disputing that they've been suggesting that they wanted to move Carter to Atlantis. And I'd be happy to discuss the speculation about that topic with others here off the board if given the opportunity, because I understand where a lot of you are coming from in that regard.

However, while it appears that they've wanted Carter to be on SG-1 and Atlantis (for whatever twisted reason), there is no evidence that they wanted to cross Carter over as the leader (for that long). I just don't see it.

And I think it's entirely possible that they were looking at other candidates, because such a big change was evidently warranted, and they probably wanted to make sure that they were considering every possibility.

That's all I'll say on the subject, I suppose. Or at least that's all I know and/or am willing to speculate on a public forum.

mcbarr
May 9th, 2007, 10:24 AM
It's a false comparison though. It's been stated many, many times...the choice was not between Carter and Weir it was be Carter and some-other-person. All evidence given in interviews and such point to this being the case.

Nope, it's not, and about the choice not being between Carter and Weir, please tell Santa I want a PS 3 for Xmas. :P If there were really three options on the table (including AT), why won't TPTB name the other two actors/actresses? Heck, the way things are going, it's not like a big deal missing a gig at SGA anyway. I think the three options were: 1) blonde Carter with short hair; 2) blonde Carter with long hair; 3) brunette Carter (LOL this one might actually look good ;)). Personally, I still believe that when SG-1 was canceled Skiffy asked/ordered a major SG-1 crossover, and TPTB came up with this [email protected]

Suzotchka
May 9th, 2007, 10:25 AM
That's unfortunate. Because it is essentially impossible for Carter fans and Weir fans to find common ground if there's a bunch of you who essentially think that TPTB are lying.

I disagree. I think there is plenty room for common ground. And the Sam/Weir fans discussion thread in the characters/relationship section proves we can get along. I am not "anti-Sam" in any way shape or form. I love the character. I just happen to think she doesn't belong on Atlantis. I respect other's opinions. I know Sam fans are happy she's crossing over and I don't begrudge them their happiness.

the dancer of spaz
May 9th, 2007, 10:33 AM
Nope, it's not, and about the choice not being between Carter and Weir, please tell Santa I want a PS 3 for Xmas. :P If there were really three options on the table (including AT), why won't TPTB name the other two actors/actresses? Heck, the way things are going, it's not like a big deal missing a gig at SGA anyway. I think the three options were: 1) blonde Carter with short hair; 2) blonde Carter with long hair; 3) brunette Carter (LOL this one might actually look good ;)). Personally, I still believe when SG-1 was canceled Skiffy asked/ordered a major SG-1 crossover, and TPTB came up with this [email protected]

Huh. Yeah, somehow I don't think it was that simple. :)

OK, here are my specs on who were the options:
1.) Caldwell
2.) Jackson
3.) Carter
and a fourth huge, "maybe"...
4.) Mitchell

But my speculation is pointless, because we'll never know. And we don't really need to know, do we? All it'll do is satisfy our curiosity for this problem, but bring up a whole slew of new questions for people who would want to know why the other two actors weren't considered over Carter/AT. It is a matter of respect to those actors, and we don't need to know every single decision TPTB have made about the franchise and why.


I disagree. I think there is plenty room for common ground. And the Sam/Weir fans discussion thread in the characters/relationship section proves we can get along. I am not "anti-Sam" in any way shape or form. I love the character. I just happen to think she doesn't belong on Atlantis. I respect other's opinions. I know Sam fans are happy she's crossing over and I don't begrudge them their happiness.

I understand what you're saying, but really all it's doing is perpetuating the either/or issue. For me, it's like it's tainting the fact that Carter/AT are coming on board, because it's suggesting that she is the reason that Weir/TH is leaving. Even if it's not placing blame on the actor/character, it's still placing her at the heart of the issue.

I don't blame you for not believing the whole story, but without knowing all of the details and all of the aspects of the issue, I don't understand how we can speculate about something that he's already taken the time to explain.

I guess, for me, it goes back to the issues with BB and CB coming over, since that's the most comparable situation. TPTB never said that they were looking for other actors to play those respective roles in S8's PU and throughout S9-S10. In fact, they confirmed just the opposite multiple times: That they'd been wanting BB and CB on Stargate for a couple of years, but were unable to settle on scheduling, because they were filming the miniseries - thus confirming the rather conspiracy-theory-esque notion that SciFi/Bridge wanted both Farscape actors on Stargate. Such confirmation has not been the case here.

And while I'm sure there are details that JM will always hold back from us, for no other reason than to keep us from talking about it, I don't think this is one of them.

Suzotchka
May 9th, 2007, 10:41 AM
Huh. Yeah, somehow I don't think it was that simple. :)

OK, here are my specs on who were the options:
1.) Caldwell
2.) Jackson
3.) Carter
and a fourth huge, "maybe"...
4.) Mitchell

But my speculation is pointless, because we'll never know. And we don't really need to know, do we? All it'll do is satisfy our curiosity for this problem, but bring up a whole slew of new questions for people who would want to know why the other two actors weren't considered over Carter/AT. It is a matter of respect to those actors, and we don't need to know every single decision TPTB have made about the franchise and why.



I understand what you're saying, but really all it's doing is perpetuating the either/or issue. For me, it's like it's tainting the fact that Carter/AT are coming on board, because it's suggesting that she is the reason that Weir/TH is leaving. Even if it's not placing blame on the actor/character, it's still placing her at the heart of the issue.

I don't blame you for not believing the whole story, but without knowing all of the details and all of the aspects of the issue, I don't understand how we can speculate about something that he's already taken the time to explain.

I guess, for me, it goes back to the issues with BB and CB coming over, since that's the most comparable situation. TPTB never said that they were looking for other actors to play those respective roles in S8's PU and throughout S9-S10. In fact, they confirmed just the opposite multiple times: That they'd been wanting BB and CB on Stargate for a couple of years, but were unable to settle on scheduling, because they were filming the miniseries - thus confirming the rather conspiracy-theory-esque notion that SciFi/Bridge wanted both Farscape actors on Stargate. Such confirmation has not been the case here.

And while I'm sure there are details that JM will always hold back from us, for no other reason than to keep us from talking about it, I don't think this is one of them.

I don't want to really say anything else (or state my opinion) if it might upset any Sam fans so I think I'm just going to end it here. :) All I can say is that we'll have to agree to disagree. :)

the dancer of spaz
May 9th, 2007, 10:50 AM
I don't want to really say anything else (or state my opinion) if it might upset any Sam fans so I think I'm just going to end it here. :) All I can say is that we'll have to agree to disagree. :)

Nah, don't worry about it. It could just be me, Suz. :) I'm sensitive about certain issues, because of AT/Carter's history with other fans who've said that she's the reason why their favorite character was sidelined, or who blame her for their fave actor leaving. I feel like history is repeating itself, and that may color how I look at some things.

PG15
May 9th, 2007, 11:33 AM
Nope, it's not, and about the choice not being between Carter and Weir, please tell Santa I want a PS 3 for Xmas. :P If there were really three options on the table (including AT), why won't TPTB name the other two actors/actresses? Heck, the way things are going, it's not like a big deal missing a gig at SGA anyway. I think the three options were: 1) blonde Carter with short hair; 2) blonde Carter with long hair; 3) brunette Carter (LOL this one might actually look good ;)). Personally, I still believe that when SG-1 was canceled Skiffy asked/ordered a major SG-1 crossover, and TPTB came up with this [email protected]

JM has said already (twice) that he won't name the other 2 due to common courtesy; how would the other two actors feel if they found out that TPTB chose Amanda/Carter over them?

This "TPTB is lying!" crap has got to stop. What evidence do you have that they are lying? How would you feel if I called you a liar despite your assurances that you are not? Calling someone a liar with no evidence to back it up is libel in my books, and an insult to TPTB that I would imagine is not allowed on these boards.

Oh, and I've been holding this in for some time now; if you guys want to save Weir, best not let some of your members insult TPTB so blatantly.

mcbarr
May 9th, 2007, 11:39 AM
JM has said already (twice) that he won't name the other 2 due to common courtesy; how would the other two actors feel if they found out that TPTB chose Amanda/Carter over them?

Better than Torri Higginson? :) BTW, why are you so angry? Are you a PTB?

Celcool
May 9th, 2007, 11:46 AM
Good point, mcbarr, Torri does know, wonder how that makes her feel.

He's defending TPTb just like we're defending our favorite characters or the actress. :D

PG15
May 9th, 2007, 11:48 AM
Yeah, I'm actually Rob Cooper. :p

Obviously that's a joke; I'm angry because they get so much crap dumped on them for silly and sometimes false reasons that I just can't take it anymore.

They may or may not have been better than Torri, since removing Torri and bringing in Sam/the other 2 were separate decisions. There is no evidence that this is untrue.

Suzotchka
May 9th, 2007, 11:55 AM
Saying I don't believe them is different from calling them an outright blatant liar. It's my choice whether to believe them or not. And I choose not to believe them. It's also called freedom of speech.

I've already answered questions about this (just scroll up).

PG15
May 9th, 2007, 11:59 AM
All you've said is that you don't buy it, and everything else is pretty much speculation, unless I missed something.

Freedom of speech is all well and good, but since this is a discussion forum, there should be some evidence to back up your position. You have none as far as I can tell.

Suzotchka
May 9th, 2007, 12:04 PM
All you've said is that you don't buy it, and everything else is pretty much speculation, unless I missed something.

Freedom of speech is all well and good, but since this is a discussion forum, there should be some evidence to back up your position. You have none as far as I can tell.

I don't need any evidence as back up or proof that I do not believe them. It is my opinion.

besides, the mods are probably going to come in here and clean up the thread and delete our posts anyway.

the dancer of spaz
May 9th, 2007, 12:06 PM
I don't need any evidence as back up or proof that I do not believe them. It is my opinion.

besides, the mods are probably going to come in here and clean up the thread and delete our posts anyway.

It all seems on topic to me... Though I guess the AT/Carter stuff could be considered off-topic. :S I guess I just see the TH/Weir and AT/Carter issues are so intertwined these days, that it's hard to separate them.

mcbarr
May 9th, 2007, 12:09 PM
Peace, PG15! I'll restrain myself from making further controversial comments just for you. OK? It's not my place, really. :)

PG15
May 9th, 2007, 12:17 PM
I guess that will do.

It's just, it's a really strange position for me. I mean, I don't think people will like it if I say "in my opinion, Michael Shanks have webbed toes", or "in my opinion, RDA was actually fired because he spat on Brad Wright". No proof, but a perfectly valid opinion.

And then I'll be flamed into the stoneage by the MS and RDA fans (and rightly so).

Skydiver
May 9th, 2007, 12:43 PM
guys, let's get this back on track please.

the topic is dr weir in season four...it is NOT an off shoot of the save weir campaign. Nor is it the place to take TPTB to task for thier decisions. Nor is it the 'carter sucks' thread, nor is it the 'this group of fans are a pain' thread.

Discuss weir and her role in season four.

Take the other stuff to the appropriate threads

Suzotchka
May 9th, 2007, 12:46 PM
I guess that will do.

It's just, it's a really strange position for me. I mean, I don't think people will like it if I say "in my opinion, Michael Shanks have webbed toes", or "in my opinion, RDA was actually fired because he spat on Brad Wright". No proof, but a perfectly valid opinion.

And then I'll be flamed into the stoneage by the MS and RDA fans (and rightly so).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you choose to believe TPTB. I don't ask for proof for you to back up your opinion. Just like if I say I don't believe, I dont' feel the need to back it up.

Edit: Didn't see your post Sky. I will keep on topic.

Suzotchka
May 9th, 2007, 01:03 PM
Does anyone here know what the 4th episode Weir is going to be in? I know it's Adrift, Lifeline and This Mortal Coil (am I correct?)

mcbarr
May 9th, 2007, 04:30 PM
Good question. Maybe the conclusion to This Mortal Coil? But that'd be the second half of season 4 already, so I dunno. :confused:

the dancer of spaz
May 9th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Hopefully it's

"Be All My Sins Remember'd"

which is the working title for the second half of the two-parter.

chocdoc
May 10th, 2007, 04:23 PM
Hopefully it's

"Be All My Sins Remember'd"

which is the working title for the second half of the two-parter.


Yes, you would think it would be this one, although this may not be the fourth episode of the first half, because wouldn't this episode be in the second half? Maybe JM will let fans know soon how many TH will be in altogether in season 4.

OT: But I hadn't responded to the question about how I'd feel if Sam were reduced and let's say Weir came in to be a regular on SG-1. I would definitely be unhappy and would do just what the SaveWeir campaign is doing, in terms of trying to get Weir back full-time. And just like many Weir fans are doing, I wouldn't badmouth Weir to get Sam back -- I'd try to have them both there. Also, if Sam leaves in season 5, and Weir comes back as a regular, I would understand this and let it go because Weir was there first. I'd be disappointed not to see Sam again on Atlantis, but I would let it go. I would not let it go if we were talking about Sam being reduced in SG-1. I feel very fortunate that that never happened to Sam on SG-1, because she was one of the main reasons I watched the show, and also I watched it for the team (team of seasons 1-8 particularly).

As I said before, I would love to see Weir and Sam interact. Or could you imagine an offworld adventure with the two of them. I'd love to see that. We won't because TPTB have such trouble writing two female characters as front and center in one episode -- they used to do that with Sam and Janet every once in awhile, and I thought those were great episodes. Too bad they are afraid to do it on Atlantis (and they missed a golden opportunity to have a Sam/Vala adventure on SG-1, IMO).

erete
May 11th, 2007, 01:00 AM
I have been a fan of Sam Carter 1o years. I think she is fantastic, I love her!
But I´m too a fan of Weir and I don´t like her reduction.
We have had 10 years and 2 films with Sam, and only 3 years with Weir!
I unsderstand the fans or Sam, but you have to admit that put her in Atlantis and limit one of the principal characters of the show is unjust!
I think the producers and writers are confronting the fans of the 2 characters!
Please let we have more years with Weir!
Bye!And sorry for my bad english!

Wormhole
May 11th, 2007, 06:37 AM
Just want to post a little theory of mine, which I’ve had running for sometime now, with regards to Weir.

One of our own the enemy courts - 'Horrific Reveal' - plus Significant player.

And now this.

To die, to sleep--
To sleep--perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause.


I think everything has been a false reality put in by the Asurans. Remember this line from Progeny. "'You' possess the knowledge we simply must have."

Oberoth was speaking to Weir at the time not the others when he said 'You'.

And I wonder if the big space battle in the latest episode is Atlantis crew trying to get the team back.

Also with regards to the Brian Surgery, this might be because in Adrift/Lifeline she begins to realise what is going on so the Asurans intervene.

What do you think? Yes/No?