PDA

View Full Version : The Wraith Mind Grinder



Mister Oragahn
January 10th, 2007, 12:40 PM
This is the result of a discussion that originally grew from an exchange of episode reviews. Then we adressed the episode Phantoms.
I thought some of you might be interested about it and actually react positively or negatively to this nice bit of speculation.




The dead soldier thing was interesting, indeed, but all that was largely destroyed by the ******* scenery. I can't stand those forests anymore. Paintball in the woods? Doesn't work for me.
I'm tired of those one shot secrets stuck into caves, lost in the middle of an army of canadian pines.

Oh but we got desert in this one to! I totally agree about all this discarded technolgoy. Why would the Wraith discard something like that? It's really, really nasty as a weapon, if not so much for their original intended purpose.

It's a good thing they're not smart enough to fire a few (dozen/hundred) of those things at the ocean around atlantis and kick off a huge ass murder party inside. Hell with that intense of a field it might just cause people's brains to leak out of their ears instantly. We know the whale mind****s went right through the shields so this is almost certain to do the same.

You could even use it against other ships as some sort of series of emmiters boosted by the hive's own massive powercore. Everyone that flew near the hive would just go nuts and start killing their crewmates. Conventional defences would be utterly useless. You could even ramp it up so it just completely destroys minds in a given proximity. The Wraith can still feed on twitching vegetables so long as they're still alive.

It could probably even be mounted on smaller ships like scouts that have hyperspace level power sources and be just as effective.

Nasty potential. I'd have grabbed that thing for sure. Even if it doesn't work on Wraith minds it would work on the Human Ori troops.

****ing exactly man! Plus it's not like this device failed. It even worked with its control console destroyed!
The device was perfect, and didn't even affect humans possessing some wraith DNA genes! So it would clearly never endanger the Wraith themselves.
This coupled to the power core of a warship and to the mind hive, it would be an ultimate weapon which knows no limit. No shield, no armor. How could an army resist the power of an entire hiveship's populace channeled through this mind ****ing device?

Ouch actually directing it's effects with psionics is something I didn't even think of. It's possible that queens or keepers could actually make their enemies kill each other in specifically horrible or efficient ways that way. If you're in a rush just make them run around shooting each other or blow up their reactor, if you just want to make a point "event horizon" their asses. Hell event horizon their entire damn planet or fleet.

Just the image of a single small pitiful looking ship going up to an entire enemy fleet and then that sort of horror ensuing in the ranks of the enemy is awesome. That would certainly satisfy any complaints about them not being scary enough to. Hell a weapon like that would even justify how terrified the ancients supposedly were of them.

Getting blown up is one thing but the knowledge that the enemy has a weapon, which can't be defended against, and which will bring about your demise by making you do the same sorts of things with your shipmates the Event Horizon crew did would drop enlistments rather quickly I think. When you're facing that kind of thing it doesn't matter if you're more advanced, your guys are still going to be universally scared ****less.

They could even use it to make crews disarm their ships and stand in neat little lines in the cargobays waiting for the Wraith to come and feed on them.

Combine all that with the bias toward "living" weapons I talked about before and you're got a recipie for some really really nasty buggers.


... and you know this will never happen. This will never surface again.


**** no, if you exploited that thing to anywhere near its full potential you wouldn't even be able to show the results on TV. It would literally be the ultimate weapon of terror, this on top of how ridiculously effective it would actually be in combat.

I'd even settle for a toned down version of it that just did the "line up for feeding" thing but that won't be done because the badguys in Sg aren't allowed to use their tech to gaina dvantages. Only Earth can do that.


As far as I can tell, I can't see why this device would not be used. It worked very well, even when damaged, and had devastating effects.

.jolinar.
January 11th, 2007, 12:12 AM
Perhaps the Wraith who were working on the project were affected by the device and they fleed through the gate. Or perhaps they started killing each other too and their remains have been gone for a while.

Ouroboros
January 11th, 2007, 01:12 AM
Even if that's the case that's no reason not to build a few of them, turn them on and fire them at the enemy. Especially stationary fortresses that are hard to otherwise crack... like Atlantis.

Given that it didn't even work on Teyla though, and she's like 1/1000th Wraith or something, I don't think it would work on real Wraith at all.

Prior_of_the_Ori
January 11th, 2007, 03:54 AM
While it is an excellent weapon, isnt it a bit too effective for the goals of the Wraith? I don't think its any point feeding on something that got killed by its comrade and shot itself in the end. Plus, that one soldier was really really nuts and was a very real threat. I dont know about you but if I was the enemy, I wouldnt want to turn my enemies effective by making them so desperate that they were willing to pull the pin for their grenade in order to 'take out' the enemy along with themselves.

True, it could be because the weapon was on its maximum setting but regardless, perhaps the Wraith do use this technology still? Perhaps the experiment was successful and they began integrating it into their ships. We don't know so far.

I really wish we got to explore the Wraith a bit more but....

wise one
January 11th, 2007, 05:21 AM
maybe it was a experiment for the ancients cos the wraith knew that they have advanced brains so maybe they wanted to mess around with their minds but when that didnt work the wraith shut it down

FallenAngelII
January 11th, 2007, 05:27 AM
maybe it was a experiment for the ancients cos the wraith knew that they have advanced brains so maybe they wanted to mess around with their minds but when that didnt work the wraith shut it down
This is the most likely scenario. I mean, why would they want to mess around with the brains of puny little humans unless the whole project was started less than 3 years ago?

If this project was indeed started to mess with the Ancients, it was started at least approxiamtely 10,000 years ago. It's very likely that they would've forgotten about it since then.

.jolinar.
January 11th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Even if that's the case that's no reason not to build a few of them, turn them on and fire them at the enemy. Especially stationary fortresses that are hard to otherwise crack... like Atlantis.

Given that it didn't even work on Teyla though, and she's like 1/1000th Wraith or something, I don't think it would work on real Wraith at all.

Sorry I forgot about that part. Oops

Prior_of_the_Ori
January 11th, 2007, 01:22 PM
This is the most likely scenario. I mean, why would they want to mess around with the brains of puny little humans unless the whole project was started less than 3 years ago?

If this project was indeed started to mess with the Ancients, it was started at least approxiamtely 10,000 years ago. It's very likely that they would've forgotten about it since then.

It is a possibility and considering the evolution of the Ancients such an advantage would apply as their mental abilities were perhaps greater then the Wraith... depending if they actually had such abilities during the Wraith war as the crew of the Tria didnt seem to have anything.

Ouroboros
January 11th, 2007, 02:00 PM
The Wraith can possess people and communicate over interstellar distances with their psychics so I'd say they more than keep up with the ancients.

Even if this thing was originally designed to melt ancient brains it's effect on humans can't be denied. Just firing a few of them into a more advanced planet like Ronon's would destroy any sort of organised resistance or evacuation attempt. The Wraith could then just descend and reap the chaos.

Furthermore even if it is only useful as a horriffic weapon of mass destruction that's no reason not to develop it and stash it away somewhere. Like the original post went into the potential that thing has to ruin entire fleets or civilizations is scary. We saw what a little tiny prototype one with a little tiny powersource shot full of holes could do. What kind of effects might a production version powered by a hiveship be capable of?

You coudl drive an entire planet into a homicidal paranoid mania. How that for a weapon of terror.

PG15
January 11th, 2007, 11:04 PM
^What exactly would that accomplish though? As the posters above have said, the terror this thing instilled resulted in the deaths of the humans, which the Wraith do not want.

And if they just want to wipe out the civillization, they can just blast it to bits from orbit. Of course, this won't work for really advanced civillizations, but those don't seem to be very abundant.

Ouroboros
January 12th, 2007, 01:39 AM
^What exactly would that accomplish though? As the posters above have said, the terror this thing instilled resulted in the deaths of the humans, which the Wraith do not want.

And if they just want to wipe out the civillization, they can just blast it to bits from orbit. Of course, this won't work for really advanced civillizations, but those don't seem to be very abundant.

They wouldn't use it for culling, they'd use it for war and intimidation. They'd use it on places like Atlantis which are bothersome but not exactly packed to the gills with huge numbers of people to cull. They could also use it if their species ever came under attack by another of a similar tech level.

It's just like how humanity has nuclear bombs. We don't use them every time but we've still got them. It's about fitting the tool to the job and the mind gringer here would be a very nice tool to keep tucked away in one's proverbial toolbox.

Prior_of_the_Ori
January 12th, 2007, 02:41 AM
The Wraith can possess people and communicate over interstellar distances with their psychics so I'd say they more than keep up with the ancients.

Even if this thing was originally designed to melt ancient brains it's effect on humans can't be denied. Just firing a few of them into a more advanced planet like Ronon's would destroy any sort of organised resistance or evacuation attempt. The Wraith could then just descend and reap the chaos.

Furthermore even if it is only useful as a horriffic weapon of mass destruction that's no reason not to develop it and stash it away somewhere. Like the original post went into the potential that thing has to ruin entire fleets or civilizations is scary. We saw what a little tiny prototype one with a little tiny powersource shot full of holes could do. What kind of effects might a production version powered by a hiveship be capable of?

You coudl drive an entire planet into a homicidal paranoid mania. How that for a weapon of terror.

Possession only occurs if the person has Wraith DNA and is connected to the 'hive mind' network. While Ancients with telepathic abilities are free to read the mind of people without any enhancement. I would say the advantage the Wraith telepathy has over Ancient is that the Wraith are not alone but have a 'hive mind'.... so basically the power of many over a single strong Ancient is a good advantage.

As for a weapon of war, yeah thats a good idea and all but as mentioned by PG15, it aint going to get them any food and currently they face no opposition from an advanced race so they dont need anything beyond parking a hiveship in orbit of 'enemy' world and let the energy bolts rain down. Would be great though if they began using it on their ships but currently dont see the telepathic weapon being used much... at least, not yet.

wise one
January 12th, 2007, 06:26 AM
well the wraith could turn it into a weapon on atlantis if any of you seen:

'echoes' the sea mammals projected their memory and low freunquncy(spelling) waves at the atlantis expedition even when the shields were on


so if the wraith Did make a mind something it MIGHT of caused some side effects to the ancients

but highly doubtfull it didnt

Wraith Scientist
January 12th, 2007, 09:52 AM
Possession only occurs if the person has Wraith DNA and is connected to the 'hive mind' network.

However, this might be an interesting idea too:

How about a neurotransmitter that makes the humans effected by it vunerable to being connected with via the Wraith hive network. Without any mental barriers like the ones Teyla's people developed to protect themselves from the effects of the telepathic network over time, the victims would be wide open to mental attack and possession by any nearby Wraith. The tactical advantages of this are obvious.

As for delivery, you can use a wide variety of methods, from getting a Wraith-worshipping infiltrator to stuff a canister full of the stuff in the air conditioning, to battlefield gas grenades, to simple dart guns.

(Or just a device that amplifies a Wraith's powers for greater potency and range, so they can force people to do stuff, like the Keeper forced Sumner to his knees in Rising. Something like "shoot your comrade in the leg and hold him down while I come feed on you both")

Ouroboros
January 12th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Possession only occurs if the person has Wraith DNA and is connected to the 'hive mind' network.

It's still literally a biologically evolved method of faster than light communication that every Wraith is born with naturally. Just stop and think about the magnitude of something like that. It's something that many, if not all, the more advanced societies in the stargate universe can't even achieve with technology and they're just born with it. Even those that can need things like huge advanced starships to do/power it. A Wraith just needs his brain.

That's why it's so much more awe inspiring to me than the typical "throw people into walls and read minds" psy powers. The sheer distances involved here are incredible and they project a signal that far, in real time, with nothing but the power of their own brain. In some cases the signal can even be so complex and intricate that it allows them to take control of a body on the other end of it.

It doesn't sound all that impressive at first but once you start to think about it a bit that changes.


As for a weapon of war, yeah thats a good idea and all but as mentioned by PG15, it aint going to get them any food and currently they face no opposition from an advanced race so they dont need anything beyond parking a hiveship in orbit of 'enemy' world and let the energy bolts rain down. Would be great though if they began using it on their ships but currently dont see the telepathic weapon being used much... at least, not yet.

True it doesn't have much role right now with one noted exception. It would probably be able to kill everyone in Atlantis with ridiculous ease.


so if the wraith Did make a mind something it MIGHT of caused some side effects to the ancients

but highly doubtfull it didnt

Well since medically an ancient is pretty hard to tell apart from a human (they just seem nearly perfect) I think anything that would kill a human would probably stand a very good chance of working on an ancient to.

PG15
January 12th, 2007, 10:48 PM
Yes, it can kill everyone on Atlantis, but who knows what they'll have to do to use it? Besides the point that they still think of Atlantis as a big stretch of radiated debris on the ocean floor, if it involves getting any kind of ship close to Lantia, then it's toast by drones.

Mister Oragahn
January 13th, 2007, 01:50 AM
Yes, it can kill everyone on Atlantis, but who knows what they'll have to do to use it? Besides the point that they still think of Atlantis as a big stretch of radiated debris on the ocean floor, if it involves getting any kind of ship close to Lantia, then it's toast by drones.

Put the device inside an asteroid (one that would not get entirely vaporized), fake a crash and let the damn thing sink down the ocean, broadcasting its funky signal.

Right now, the use seems limited, but had the Wraith been able to enter the Milky Way, this would suddenly become a complete different story.

Prior_of_the_Ori
January 13th, 2007, 02:30 AM
Put the device inside an asteroid (one that would not get entirely vaporized), fake a crash and let the damn thing sink down the ocean, broadcasting its funky signal.

Right now, the use seems limited, but had the Wraith been able to enter the Milky Way, this would suddenly become a complete different story.

Yeah but that only works if its a fullscale war between the Wraith and Humans and when the Wraith arent concerned with feeding themselves. In the last siege of Atlantis they beamed Humans away for feeding as well as to disarm their weapon positions.

Last thing I would want is Humans going crazy in Atlantis and blowing my chance in finding a new feeding ground... literally blowing it... unless of course there is a variable setting for the thing that would prevet humans going insane from the effects of the device and McKay did say that someone put it on max and left it there so its possible that there are variable freqencies for the thing.

But who knows, hopefully perhaps we might see this again soon in action. And considering that this is the second Wraith experiment we have seen well who knows what other horrors those gothic vampires have up their black sleeves....

PG15
January 13th, 2007, 11:33 AM
Put the device inside an asteroid (one that would not get entirely vaporized), fake a crash and let the damn thing sink down the ocean, broadcasting its funky signal.

1. How do you "fake" an asteroid impact? If it suddenly slows down near the surface, someone's gonna figure out that something's wrong, and I'm pretty sure that device won't survive an asteroid impact.

2. Why would Team Atlantis let an asteriod hit the planet in the first place? Why don't they blow it up or move it to save themselves from, you know, annhilation and all that doomsday asteroid stuff?


Right now, the use seems limited, but had the Wraith been able to enter the Milky Way, this would suddenly become a complete different story.

I hope no problem with this.

Ouroboros
January 13th, 2007, 09:46 PM
All they'd need to do to get them to Atlantis would be seige it up again and fire a dozen or so of them into the ocean around the city in some kind of missile form. Bingo, instant murder party.

That or you can do the whole "let our scoutship land" thing again and put the thing in the scoutship, turn it on when you touch down and watch them all start gnawing on each other while you casually browse the ancient computer system.

Hell you could even disguise it inside some sort of interesting ancient relic and manipulate them into brining it back for you somehow. When it arrives on the base it turns on. That Wraith hologram shield technology would be great for this. Make it look like a stone idol or, better yet, a puddlejumper. They'll find the abandoned jumper on some planet somewhere, bring it back because they can always use more, then whammo, murder party again. That particular method would work really well with a bio/chemical weapon or giant nuke to, if you just wanted to kill them all.

You could even send a scoutship or another hispeed dart to approach from the otherside of the planet and release it into the ocean as some sort of guided torpedo/submersible that would eventually make it's way to the city under water.

There's all sorts of ways to get that device or devices into or near the city.

PG15
January 13th, 2007, 10:00 PM
True, but since they don't really have a reason to do that right now, this point is moot.

wise one
January 14th, 2007, 04:22 AM
if they did try fake a astroid impact, its most likly atlantis would beam a nuke into it