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GateWorld
January 8th, 2007, 10:56 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1017.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/1017.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SG-1 SEASON TEN</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1017.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">TALION</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 1017</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
When a terrorist attack decimates a Jaffa summit Teal'c strikes out on a quest for revenge, believing that the perpetrator is one of his own pupils.

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SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Madeleine
February 20th, 2007, 01:14 PM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?

Integrabyte
February 20th, 2007, 01:16 PM
Rather than closing the thread i opened, why not link it here?


P.S. Only thing i like in this episode....Vala was like glue to Daniel ;)

SGFerrit
February 20th, 2007, 01:17 PM
This was an excellent episode. As someone has already said, the best Tealc episode yet. When Arkadstabbed Tealc through the stomache I thought he was a gonner! I thought that If Arkad had just kept his mouth shut about killing Tealcs mother, Tealc might have just lost the will and died. I wonder, is this the rap up ep for the rebel Jaffa storyline, because there are only three episodes left now, and neither of the movies seem to focus on the rebel Jaffa? If so, a very fitting end to the storyline.

Loved this episode, last weeks wasn't that great after Quest 2 - Bounty but this picked it right back up. 9/10.

Kazan
February 20th, 2007, 01:19 PM
Will do some screen caps a bit later but for now a quick synopsis. Forgive any spelling....

Teaser
SG1 exploring a dark and misty planet with lots of jaffa casualties. Many are dead.
Daniel finds bratac. He is still alive but in a bad way.
Sam then finds Tealc, unconscious and also seemingly in bad shape.

Act1
Back to a village of Jaffa. Switch to a tent where there are many gathered. A Jaffa leadership summit. A young Jaffa is agitating and wanting forceful efforts to defeat the Ori.
Bratac enters and tries to reason for a peaceful and reasoned approach.
Tealc is by the tent door. He becomes aware of a man walking across the village. He is heavily scarred on his face. He starts to follow him then there is a big explosion. This is in slow motion as a flash back / dream like sequence.
Tealc wakes with a start in the infirmary at the SGC. Dr Lam tells Tealc that he has been unconscious for 2 weeks and had major injuries. They were not sure he would survive. Tealc falls asleep again.
Dr Lam explains to the rest of SG1 that Tealc woke for a short time.
They gather by his bedside and when he wakes they give him the bad news that many were killed. Tealc has flash backs to the explosions and fire. He asks after Bratac. They say that although he did survive he was badly injured. Tealc demands to see him.
Cam wheels him to Bratacs bedside. He is on life support. Dr Lam says she really is not sure that he will recover.

Tealc goes to see Landry and says he has been told a Jaffa called Arcad is responsible. Tealc wants to hunt down him – he has come across him before and is told he is a very dangerous Jaffa. Landry agrees given that he bombed a peaceful summit of his own people but Landry says he will not authorise a revenge attack based on rumour only. They argue and fight. Tealc wants to hunt down and kill Arcad. Landry says to wait but Tealc shouts that he will not – he has given it enough time.


Act2
Landry is talking with Cam. He says he will not support a vendetta by one man.
Tealc is leaving to pursue Arcad. Privately Landry agrees and understands that Tealc needs to leave.
SG1 watch as Tealc leaves. They offered to go with him but he had refused. Sam says he has promised to keep in touch but none of them believe it.

Teacl is back at the village. He places a stick memorial and talks with a young girl. He promises revenge to her for the bombings.

Daniel is sitting with Bratac. He wakes. Lam rushes in a removes the breathing tube.

Tealc is in a tavern. He is talking with a man. And asks what he knows of the bombing.
The man is very hostile. His race was enslaved by the Jaffa.
Tealc grabs the man and demands to know what he knows. He demands the name of the man with the scar he saw just before the bombing. It seems this man sold the explosive used in the bombings.

Bratac is talking with Daniel.
He is talking about Arcad, says how dangerous and evil he is.

Bratac tells Daniel that Tealc’s mother was murdered just after Tealc had managed to defeat Arcad in battle some time ago.
He says Tealc will stop at nothing to get revenge as it was believed that Arcad murdered her in revenge.

Landry is being told by Col Reynolds that SG3 have been given intell that some Jaffa are being shipped to an Ori planet to mine naquada. Sam and Cam are brought up to date. The planet they are going to is an Ori one. It appears Arcad has made a pact with them and is building ships and weapons. It seems the Ori are planning to attack earth with these weapons.

Tealc is on a planet at night. He has tracked the man with the scar down. He punches him and renders him unconscious.
The man wakes and is tied up. Tealc tells him that he knows he is Jaffa – his has removed his symbiote and it lays on the ground before him. The Jaffa says he is not frightened of death as he is a follower of Origin and believes he will ascend. Tealc tells him he will not ascend and the Ori will not save him. Tealc has placed an explosive device in his symbiote pouch. Tealc leaves. The Jaffa explodes.

Back at the SGC. An unscheduled offworld activation occurs. It is Arcad, he wants to give his assistance to the Tauri, he says they must know of the plot against them. He is not responsible and believes he is uniquely able to help them. He wants to meet face to face.

Cut to Bratac still in bed. He thinks the offer is a trap and a ploy, that Arcad is not sincere. Daniel agrees but says the IOA insists that they listen given the danger that might happen.

SGFerrit
February 20th, 2007, 01:20 PM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?

I thought he was considerably better than some of the extras we have seen actually, I was rewatching Full Circle today and Anubis' first prime was IMO very poorly acted

Kazan
February 20th, 2007, 01:20 PM
And the second part....


Act 3
Arcad is escourted into the conference room by Landry and introduced SG1. They are hostile and disbelieving of Arcads supposed good intentions.
He asks where Tealc is – Cam says he couldn’t guarantee his safety if Tealc were there. Daniel says that Bratac also would love to stab him in the eye.
Arcad explains that he may be a follower of Ori but would never sanction an attack on fellow Jaffa. He says it was done by a rogue element who see the Tauri as a threat.
He says that although they do not see eye to eye, he wants to lead the Jaffa and unite them only. He has no desire to fight with the Tauri and given his strength of fleet and men would be able to mount a much bigger and more effective attack on Earth if he wanted. He has no need to resort to such guerrilla tactics. Landry and SG1 are not sure, they accuse him of being less than honest but he makes quite a convincing argument. He reiterates that he doesn’t wish to fight with the Tauri. He even tells them where his base of operations are.

Tealc still has his hostage that sold the explosives. He is still pumping him for information on Arcad.

Landry reports that the IOA wants Arcad left alone but that means that SG1 is ordered to stop Tealc so as not to upset Arcad or the status quo.

SG1 are on the Odyssey on the way to Arcad’s main planet. They beam down to the planet and wait to see if they can catch Tealc before he makes it to the planet.

They are not too happy at having to go against Tealc.
They still think that Arcad is playing them and has been leaking the information for his own benefit. They set up a trap in the hope they can stop Tealc. Daniel thinks that in order to check whether Arcad is really on the level in his desire to help, that they can use Tealc by allowing him to get to Arcad and then seeing what his reaction is. He might own up if faced with the threat or his actions may indicate that he was being honest.

SG3 are backing up SG1 to guard the gate in case Tealc comes through. SG1 lose contact with them and Cam goes to check out what has happened, leaving the rest of SG1. Baker and Reynolds are left unconscious. Tealc has taken them out. Daniel and Cam talk with Tealc over the radio and explain that Arcad is offering to help and that he is saying he is not against Tealc, the Jaffa and is not responsible for the attack.
Tealc says they will not stop him
He thrown a stun grenade and takes out Vala, Sam and Daniel but Cam was not around. He manages to get to Tealc and holds his P90 to him but Tealc manages to knock it away and they fight and Cam is eventually knocked unconscious.

Tealc fights his way to the pyramid, taking out the Jaffa guards, but he is eventually hit by a staff weapon and falls to the ground unconscious and is captured.
During this, it appears Arcad is expecting Tealc to arrive and is warming up to fight, practicing and hitting punch bags etc. He has many weapons, knives, swords and sticks around the room.

Act 4
Tealc is dragged in front of Arcad.
Although he is injured and has little strength, Arcad drops a fighting stick and gets Tealc to try and fight him. But Tealc is in no shape and is being easily beaten up and hit by Arcad.
All the time Arcad is taunting Tealc about how he has become slow, old and weak. He also explains that there was a battle years ago when Tealce was first prime and Arcad lost his own parents and sister at the hands of Tealcs men during an attack.
He has says that he vowed to become strong like Tealc and even admired him. Arcad lets slip that it is a shame that Tealc will not live to see him defeat the Tauri.

Arcad has beaten Tealc how lies on the ground. He stabs Tealc with a sword in the stomach and then taunts him by saying that he was getting his revenge for the slaughter of his family and admits that he killed Tealcs mother.
Tealc finds hidden strength at this admission and makes one final push back on Arcad throwing him back into a wall of knives. Arcad is impaled. Tealc rises and finishes Arcad off with the sword he has pulled from his stomach..
SG1 rush in just as Tealc falls.

Back at the SGC, Bratac is with Tealc, who is recovering in a bed. Cam is watching from the observation area.
Landry comes in and says he has finished reading Cams report, which says how Arcad set a trap, captured SG1 and how Tealc saved them all. Landry says the IOA will find it hard to swallow that Arcad was the one plotting all along to attack Earth.

Back to Bratac and Tealc. Tealc tells him that Arcad admitted to killing his mother.
Bratac says that perhaps he had not said it before but that he considers Tealc to be his son. They clasp their forearms together as a gesture of solidity and togetherness.

End

Sg1_fan
February 20th, 2007, 01:20 PM
Another great episode from the producers. Teal'c was funny in some parts. overall 8/10. can't wait for the next ep.

The Great Lord Baal
February 20th, 2007, 01:20 PM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?

I thought he was pretty good but I get were your coming from
Best tealc episode ever at the start I thought bratac was dead so relieved he wasnt
Tealc rocks

jdjunkie
February 20th, 2007, 01:22 PM
No Madeleine, it's not just you. I half expected Peggy to pop out from behind a staff weapon and bleat "'Ere, woss goin' on?" in true EastEnders style.
So ... the baddie's a Brit (again). And he didn't really cut if for me.
BlackOpsTeal'c is scary as all out.
The final fight scene was horribly gory by Stargate standards.
And the entire ep was made for me by a three-second shot of Daniel reading a book (squee and thunk) by Bratac's bedside.
A much better ep than I expected because Jaffa eps generally leave me cold. Good acting from CJ.
That's it really. Off to watch Life on Mars
jd:)

nerus
February 20th, 2007, 01:22 PM
Great episode finally get a storyline that deals with the Ori and the jaffa. Also liked the way that we got a little more information about Teal'cs past, not a very nice childhood having both parents murdered, but i enjoy the jaffa revenge storylines, how many times does the teal'c need to come to near death in a single episode though lol

pbellosom
February 20th, 2007, 01:23 PM
That was awful. I don't understand how people can insult decent episodes like Bounty and Bad Guys when there are episodes like this to insult. I thought I'd give this episode a shot because the last two had also looked awful from the preairing spoilers but this was the only one that I actually really disliked.

In all I give it a 1 or 2 out of 10.

How did Teal'c know they were lying in wait for him? And why concoct that whole plan to catch Teal'c anyway when they could just beam out from orbit.

nerus
February 20th, 2007, 01:27 PM
That was awful. I don't understand how people can insult decent episodes like Bounty and Bad Guys when there are episodes like this to insult. I thought I'd give this episode a shot because the last two had also looked awful from the preairing spoilers but this was the only one that I actually really disliked.

In all I give it a 1 or 2 out of 10.

How did Teal'c know they were lying in wait for him? And why concoct that whole plan to catch Teal'c anyway when they could just beam out from orbit.

Bounty and bad guys were filler episodes it's about time that we had a serious episode which dealt with the ori and jaffa issues rather than wasting episodes with things that have no point to them at all

SGFerrit
February 20th, 2007, 01:30 PM
And why concoct that whole plan to catch Teal'c anyway when they could just beam out from orbit.

Most people complain that beaming out is used too often to solve the team's problems.

pbellosom
February 20th, 2007, 01:35 PM
Most people complain that beaming out is used too often to solve the team's problems.

it still would have worked.

shonac85
February 20th, 2007, 01:38 PM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?

I have to admit, when I finally realised it was him, I was shocked, and laughed! It was a bit hard, especially with the accent! Going up in the world though, Eastenders to Stargate not bad!

Overall, I liked the episode. Teal'c going MENTAL is fun. Though I would have liked to have seen more team interaction really. And I am really starting to not like the IOA. First they want to kill Daniel, now Teal'c! Is no-one safe in SG-1!

thewatcher
February 20th, 2007, 01:40 PM
I loved it, especially Teal'c's line
I am leaving, you are going to explode.
This is the sort of humour that Stargate's best at - totally deadpan, not like the last couple of episodes, where they just seemed to be trying too hard. (Having said that Urgo is still my favourite episode.)
Showing Arcad as exactly the same as Teal'c stopped just short of being heavy-handed, and gave the whole thing a nice comic book mini-series feel.

My only question is: Who was at Teal'c's bedside almost all the time (heavily tagged but not resolved)?

Kales
February 20th, 2007, 01:41 PM
I loved this episode, sorry if that's an unpopular opinion. FINALLY a decent Teal'c ep, in which CJ proves why he got the acting job in the first place. I loved the whole team dynamic - they were close but not mushy, in fact the whole ep felt very ... real. And finally some issues like Teal'c's not so glorious past atrocities (yes, Cor'ai dealt with them but come on, he's killed thousands! it's just nice to see it's not forgotten because, oops, yeah, one ep was devoted to it), the status of the jaffa (not my fave plot line I admit but compelling when they do it right) and the status of the jaffa versus the humans of the galaxy and how they might not be seen as victims of the goa'uld but helpers.

As weird as that sounds it felt very organic and natural - the whump was real (my flatmate, not a stargater but a Parisian observing Pancake Day with me whilst watching, was wincing and asking why this wasn't on after nine pm - that sword scene *gasp* the fight scene - did anyone else hear bones crunching?!?!?!?!), the consquences were real (even if Bra'tac got better from those seemingly critical wounds pretty quickly), Cam got some good character growth with the lying to protect Teal'c ...

I'm a DV shipper, so I loved that closeness, but I also felt like yes, it was there, but it didn't get in the way. It was assumed and implied, but it was very... nice. This is what I want them to do with D&V, whether 'shippy or friends, I want them to be close but not overpowering the screen with the need to be obvious about it. Actually, I want this from all the character relationships and this ep nailed it.

Anyone know who scribed it?

And oh yes, not saying much wrong thread, but the almost open ending of new players with new toys and new tactics seriously sets up the next two episodes. I really hope they keep this tone - the dark with light moments kind of thing, because it worked really well.

[/end gush]

kay x

SGFerrit
February 20th, 2007, 01:44 PM
it still would have worked.

Yeah, but then that would have been the end of the episode, and Tealc would not have had revenge. If it was the real world, they would just beam them up all the time. But it isn't. it's TV. And Beaming up ALL the time get's boring.

immhotep
February 20th, 2007, 01:51 PM
Good episode, that fight scenes were very cool. Tealc got blown up, shot with 5 staff blasts, stabbed and beaten in one episode. Man he is tough! we havent had a Jaffa history/Tealc/Braytak episode since 4th horseman so it was a good episode. 4/5

jannagalaxy
February 20th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?
Thanks!!! I knew I'd seen him before somewhere!!! :D

kirmit
February 20th, 2007, 01:54 PM
solid episode, some parts I drifted but overall it was good, tealc's my favourite character so how could I not be happy :P. Oh and the jaffa with the cockney accent was funny to watch.

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
February 20th, 2007, 01:59 PM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?

No not really because I can't really remember him as Dan that well but I do remember him being in Eastenders. I'm still hoping that Ross Kemp would lead a British team through the gate!



My only question is: Who was at Teal'c's bedside almost all the time (heavily tagged but not resolved)?

I'm thinking it was either Ry'ac or Jack




Another great episode! I really thought Teal'c was dead at one point but then I remembered that CJ had signed for the movies :mckay:

ETA: This revenge wasn't nearly as funny as his revenge against Tannith, just loved Teal'c's smile when he blew up Tanith's Al'kesh

Phantom Limb
February 20th, 2007, 02:03 PM
I loved it, especially Teal'c's line
I am leaving, you are going to explode.


lol that was hilarious and its about time someone kicked the crap out of Mitchell:cameron:
great return to form IMO, the idea that there would be consequences for killing the bad guy, good stuff.
even though of course Teal'c was right in the end, i honestly thought he was going to die for a few moments there.

also raised the point that if your free you can choose to do whatever you want, even worship the Ori.
was kind of getting annoyed at the whole, "its good to be free, as long as you think this is wrong and this is right" thing that SG1 is doing, it seems to be a philosophy taken on board by the SGC as well as the Ori.

i know i know the Ori are evil hell bent on killing us all but i thought it was good how they made it seem like it was Arcads choice and who are the all mighty SG1 to tell him otherwise, freedom doesnt mean doing what someone else says is right.

best Teal'c ep to date and a damn sight better than the last couple of episodes.

iheartvala
February 20th, 2007, 02:12 PM
screencaps please :D

Vala_M
February 20th, 2007, 02:19 PM
Sounds great. What's this about the Jaffa building ships for the Ori? Are they stupid? Would these ships be advanced Ha'taks or what exactly?

Also, I read the Odyssey was in this episode. They didn't happen to show or mention who was commanding it did they?

AGT58

thewatcher
February 20th, 2007, 02:23 PM
Also, I read the Odyssey was in this episode. They didn't happen to show or mention who was commanding it did they?

Nope, just an exterior shot of it taking SG1 to Arcad's planet.

jannagalaxy
February 20th, 2007, 02:23 PM
Thanks!!! I knew I'd seen him before somewhere!!! :D
I loved it!!! :D CJ is totally awesome! Totally beat the [email protected] out of Cam. But loved the bit...You're going to explode. :) Sweet!

Anubis69
February 20th, 2007, 02:26 PM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?
LOL! I knew i recognised him. What a legend. :D Now, anyone know who scar faced guy was? :confused:

I loved the violence in this episode. For once they didn't shy away from it. It was pretty hardcore for Stargate. Used to percection IMO. Right before Teal'c stabbed "Dan" i actually thought "If they don't show this... :mad:" Luckily i was proved wrong.

If you ignore a few plot points it was an awesome episode.

ETA: Did anyone else find the whole "should we attack before they attack us" thing a bit obvious even before Cam's "WMD" gag? If that line hadn't been used, it would've been nice and subtle as well. Ah well, a cracking episode.

ETA again... Dr. Lam. Yay!

grasshopper64
February 20th, 2007, 02:33 PM
A better ep than I was expecting, normally I find the Jaffa stuff boring but this was good. Nice to see Teal'c getting a decent role for once.

I've got to admit to enjoying watching Mitchell and Teal'c fight;)
I can't believe that Teal'c just pulled the sword from out of him and got up - the man is invincible.

I wondered at one point if they might kill Bra'tac off - there were rumours going round a while ago, but I'm so glad they haven't.

I found it hard to take seriously a Jaffa with a London accent (and I'm a Londoner myself) but I think Craig Fairbrass did a good job with the role.

All in all a good ep, and I can't believe there's only 3 left.

Kazan
February 20th, 2007, 02:33 PM
Here you go - a few caps......

Under the cut for size


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T11.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T12.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T13.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T14.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T15.jpg

Kazan
February 20th, 2007, 02:35 PM
And a few more



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T16.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T17.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T18.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T19.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T20.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T21.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T22.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T23.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T24.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/kazan2364/talion/T25.jpg

Gatebunny
February 20th, 2007, 02:35 PM
Good ep. Like the fact that Teal'c went for it... that was quite a vicious fight at the end! Was also quite, quite worried about Bra'tac at the beginning - really, really glad he was okay!

Arkhad - I know he was from Eastenders, but I'm pretty sure he was also Danny from Withnail and I... meant I couldn't take him very seriously. That and the fact that he sounded like the bloke who runs our local pub...

CamMitchell
February 20th, 2007, 02:40 PM
That was awful. I don't understand how people can insult decent episodes like Bounty and Bad Guys when there are episodes like this to insult. I thought I'd give this episode a shot because the last two had also looked awful from the preairing spoilers but this was the only one that I actually really disliked.

In all I give it a 1 or 2 out of 10.

How did Teal'c know they were lying in wait for him? And why concoct that whole plan to catch Teal'c anyway when they could just beam out from orbit.

I agree. The last two episodes were great, but this one was really bad.
The whole jaffastoryline was getting boring years ago and the episode wasn't in a SG episode style (rather like 24 with the guy blowing up!).

Popeston
February 20th, 2007, 02:46 PM
I was surprised by this episode. I was hoping it’d show more of the Jaffa Free Nation and all that and all I really got was a meeting which they blew up at the start.
And Teal’c vengeance spree seemed lack lustre. Threatens a guy in a random tavern, blows up some guy (Which I’ll admit I did appreciate), goes back to re threaten that random tavern guy, gets shot and kill Arkad.
The only good bit in the entire spree was seeing Teal’c batter Mitchel.
Which really did rule.

Also, was it me or were the Jaffa costumes kinda not up to standard?
What was Arkad wearing when he came to earth?
I couldn’t figure it out…
And Teal’cs armour didn’t seem right.
But hey, these aren’t really important.
What is important is the episode seemed wrong…
Kinda Spartan in places.
Doesn’t measure up to other Jaffa centric episodes like The Warrior.

To be honest I preferred Bad Guys and Bounty to Talion as I expected a whole lot of Talion and it really didn’t deliver.
Also, anyone know who Arkad was first prime to?
I didn’t recognise the symbol. My favourite pastime of guess the God didn’t work!

Team SG-1*save the show*
February 20th, 2007, 02:49 PM
i liked bounty and bad guys because it was more humour than anything but i LOVED this episode. i loved Teal'c in this ep- he was really angry. it just shows how loyal he is to the jaffa and to his friends. the bit where he said 'im leaving. your going to explode was great.
Also it was cool when cam fought with Teal'c. really didnt think cam would get a punch but he did (must be the sudan training)
Have to agree with others on this thread- it was more gory than others

I still cant believe there are only 3 episodes left.:( so many plots left unexplored. the furlings, jonas, tokra, the asguard evolution stuff etc...

ste
February 20th, 2007, 02:50 PM
I always wondered what would happen if ya crossed SG-1 and Man on Fire, now i know, deadly episode though, i loved his little one liners

Kales
February 20th, 2007, 02:51 PM
thanks for the caps!

the last one was a great scene - Teal'c actually teared up... Brilliant resolution to the whole Bra'tac/Teal'c dynamic.

kay x

Team SG-1*save the show*
February 20th, 2007, 02:53 PM
And Teal’cs armour didn’t seem right.


i did notice that.:tealcanime49: it looked cheap. maybe without the system lords the cool armour isnt made anymore.
oh well

i still enjoyed this episode

tears of blood
February 20th, 2007, 03:26 PM
all you can really say is, "dont mess with teal"c" push teal"c to the edge and this is what happens, and after the final "fight", all you can really say, when looking at whats his name on the wall is "paybacks a (insert the "B" word) here
heh..

sgeureka
February 20th, 2007, 03:28 PM
Thanks, Kazan, although I can't remember ever giving you green. :tealc39:

And ewwww! to some of the wounds in the pics.

Team SG-1*save the show*
February 20th, 2007, 03:29 PM
all you can really say is, "dont mess with teal"c" push teal"c to the edge and this is what happens, and after the final "fight", all you can really say, when looking at whats his name on the wall is "paybacks a (insert the "B" word) here
heh..

yep!!! it sure is lol:P :indeed:

Ed
February 20th, 2007, 03:48 PM
Wow that ep was awsome it actualy topped galactica aswell

tealcs you are going to explode was awsome

and i hope those injuries have long term efects

if they can keep this up it for the last three it will be a ffitting end to te show

and i know wat felt different you couldnt predict what was going to happen like you usualy can such as it looks like cam has the advantage but is still beaten tealc goes down with a sword in him then you expect SG1 to come in a save him but he gets up instead much better than bad guys where it is easy to guess what is going to happen

silence
February 20th, 2007, 04:47 PM
i really liked it ... going to watch again and then post more.
i didn't expect much of it (TBH), but i think it was well written and seeing Teal'c so pi**ed was good .. i got tired of all oneliners and doing all by the book ...

and yes, i also thought he was killed, they really got me with that scene.
back to watching ;)

MasterPower
February 20th, 2007, 05:12 PM
Thanks for the pictures!

madaboutdanny
February 20th, 2007, 06:52 PM
Teal'c in this ep. is really bad guys!!! I don't like him so bad against his teammate, but good ep. I like to see Daniel cares about Brata'c and the little interaction between him and Vala....being me D/V shipper:P . I can't believe there are only three ep and then the end:(

lelaidd
February 20th, 2007, 07:56 PM
Don't remind me of this plz, I'm gonna cry (seriously)!

Mitchell82
February 20th, 2007, 07:57 PM
Remind me never to get on Teal'cs badside! This was a great ep but don't compare to Bounty and Bad Guys b/c you can't they are very different. Those were great standalones and this was a great main story arc ep. Loved T blowing up Arkad's henchman, loved how they confused us as to who Arkad was, noticed they reused the Bar from "Underground" SGA and also "Crusade", plus the CG from the first Felger ep. Still I overlook that as this was a 10/10. Everything was done just right and even though next weeks "Family Ties" will be a lighter ep I am still looking foward to it. Only 3 eps left! *Cries in pillow*:( :danielanime08:

Dromag67
February 20th, 2007, 08:21 PM
Remind me never to get on Teal'cs badside! This was a great ep but don't compare to Bounty and Bad Guys b/c you can't they are very different. Those were great standalones and this was a great main story arc ep. Loved T blowing up Arkad's henchman, loved how they confused us as to who Arkad was, noticed they reused the Bar from "Underground" SGA and also "Crusade", plus the CG from the first Felger ep. Still I overlook that as this was a 10/10. Everything was done just right and even though next weeks "Family Ties" will be a lighter ep I am still looking foward to it. Only 3 eps left! *Cries in pillow*:( :danielanime08:

You can tell they were reusing CGI clips and trying to save money on this episode. (wonder what they are saving it for ;) )

Awesome episode, I had my doubts beforehand but it was handled very well, they definently pulled no punches on this great send off to all the Jaffa/Teal'c storylines. We even got a little more back story to Teal'c and a great climax for the 10 season relationship between Teal'c and Bra'tac.

Little scared about Bra'tac in the begining, and I was glad to see he didn't bite the bullet.

Definently glad to see Teal'c beat up Cam, and glad to see SG-1 didn't come in and kill Arcad at the last second.

Bravo to Chris Judge for the awesome performance!

8/10

Only 3 left. :(

Mitchell82
February 20th, 2007, 09:08 PM
You can tell they were reusing CGI clips and trying to save money on this episode. (wonder what they are saving it for ;) )

Awesome episode, I had my doubts beforehand but it was handled very well, they definently pulled no punches on this great send off to all the Jaffa/Teal'c storylines. We even got a little more back story to Teal'c and a great climax for the 10 season relationship between Teal'c and Bra'tac.

Little scared about Bra'tac in the begining, and I was glad to see he didn't bite the bullet.

Definently glad to see Teal'c beat up Cam, and glad to see SG-1 didn't come in and kill Arcad at the last second.

Bravo to Chris Judge for the awesome performance!
8/10

Only 3 left. :(Yeah what in the world would they want to save money for? *drools at the thought of awsome cg in Dominion and Unending. Also agree on all points.

Agent_Dark
February 20th, 2007, 10:34 PM
Slightly cliched, but much more enjoyable than the previous episode. I even felt a little bit of nostalgia when Teal'c was in the firefight with the Jaffa and the staff weapons and the armour :)

PG15
February 20th, 2007, 10:59 PM
Wow, that was violent. :D

A very solid episode. The beginning was awesome, the ending was intense, the middle was a tad slow, but taken as a whole this was a great episode for Teal'c, and a great SG1 episode overall.

The points:

Teal'c. What's there to say? He was awesome. Deadpan, as usual with the humor, and yet ballistic and powerful, just as he's always supposed to be. You know through that calm exterior there's a warrior in there that's risen beyond simple anger and tantrums. There was no way Cam was going to win, although I did like that he tried. But going back to Teal'c, MAN! Chris Judge nailed this one! His confrontation with Landry was great...as with all of his interactions in this episode, actually. Well, you get what I mean; Teal'c was awesome.

Speaking of awesome, let's talk about Bra'tac. That ending, first of all, was one I've been waiting for for years. I think that one statement alone, about Teal'c being his "son", was what made me decide this to be the end of Teal'c's character arc on the series. Bra'tac has always been on his side as his mentor and friend, and throughout the series he slowly turned from that to Teal'c second father. I'm glad they finally mentioned it in this episode. Another Bra'tac highlight is, of course, the speech at the beginning. I almost cheered when he shut that little pipsqueak up. Seriously, what was the kid trying to pull?! Bra'tac made a speech worthy of them Great leaders that he's always been.

Archad. I haven't seen Eastenders, so it didn't bother me in that effect (if anything, he looked like Janitor from Scrubs :D). After Bad Guys, it was nice to see a group of guest stars that were actually good, and Archad was damn good IMHO. The fight at the end, with the taunting, was made just that much better with him at the source of those words.

Now, the rest of SG1. This was a Teal'c episode so obviously they had less to do, but what they had they handled very well. It was nice seeing the concerns they had for Teal'c at the beginning, and their uneasiness at trying to capture Teal'c. I thought Cam was very consistant here; he's still the military man; he had to get the job done. The only action was to fight Teal'c. I though Browder played the conflict with this very well. I also have a sneaky suspicion that the guy who was by Teal'c side all the time was Daniel.

Finally, the fight. Damn, that was intense. It was hard watching Teal'c getting beaten up; but then, I guess the brutality was warrent in this; it was, after all, a revenge fight, not just a "he's the enemy! Fight him" fight. That sword thing was hard to stomach though.

Anyway, very solid episode, had me on the edge of my seat for a longwhile there. So, I'm giving it...

Score: 9/10

the fifth man
February 20th, 2007, 11:52 PM
Hmmm, this sounds like it was a really good episode. I can't wait to see it. Also, I'm glad to know that Bra'tac doesn't die.

Chaka's_Mum
February 21st, 2007, 12:17 AM
I certainly enjoyed this episode - Teal'c was awesome! Dark and brooding and ever-so-slightly out of control.

Mind you, when Bra'tac referred to him as 'the son I never had' I have to admit that I followed that up with an 'already knew that, Bra'tac'. It's always been hovering in the background a bit - at least to me - and it was great to hear it finally articulated. Bra'tac has always been one of my favourite recurring characters (him and Jacob -RIP-) so it was a lovely ending.

I was a bit 'heart in the mouth' after the explosion - particularly when they revealed that Bra'tac was in a coma. In some ways, I was a bit worried that he was going to end up dying or something. Very, very glad he didn't.

'Fraid I have to go with Gatebunny on Arkad. No disrespect to Craig Fairbrass here - it's just that (for me at least) he didn't seem to quite 'fit', particularly when he was in the Briefing room with Gen. Landry and SG-1. Perhaps it was the fact that I was sitting there watching him referring to the bombing on Dar Eshkalon thinking: 'Didn't he used to be in Eastenders?'.

Mind you, once the fisticuffs began - wow! Couldn't imagine his character doing that in Albert Square!

And then he made the classic mistake. Claiming credit for the big trauma in his enemy's life. Don't the bad guys ever learn? Doing that is the fastest known way of making a fallen goodie find the strength to beat you - often in a single blow that knocks you back onto something sharp and conveniently close by. Just like Teal'c did. Honestly. What a fool - throwing away his advantage by using an action movie cliché.

Great ep.

HyperCaz
February 21st, 2007, 12:21 AM
I really liked this one...glad to see Teal'c's dark side again. I got misty eyed at that scene at the end with Bra'tac and Teal'c. :o And LOVED seeing Bra'tac in those civvies LOL...he looked like all he needed was a good cup of tea.

I haven't been this satisfied with a Jaffa episode for a while. I was afraid that they'd gone and killed Bra'tac (well who knows with TPTB these days) so I was immensely relieved to know he was alive. I can only handle so many recurring deaths...

And because he was easy on the eyes, I'd hoped Archad was a nice guy... :D blind-sighted me...hehe. I like how the team are portrayed as watching each other's backs...would have liked to see Landry's raised eyebrows as he read that report.

Highlight - "I am leaving. You are about to explode."

PG15
February 21st, 2007, 12:29 AM
I really liked this one...glad to see Teal'c's dark side again. I got misty eyed at that scene at the end with Bra'tac and Teal'c. :o

Join the club. :D

You shouldn't be embarassed, it was a genuinely touching scene.

BloomGate
February 21st, 2007, 12:34 AM
A few thoughts.....

Great ep!

Rambo and Terminator ain't got nuttin on Teal'c!

Had to LOL when the bad guy was calling Teal'c old and slow after he'd been hit with a staff blast 5 minutes earlier. Wanted to see how he would do if he'd been hit too.

Classic bad guy error: Once you've thoughly beaten someone, you should fail entirely to mention to them that you killed their mother. Nothing good ever comes of it. ;)

sgeureka
February 21st, 2007, 02:13 AM
Good work with the teaser, Mr. Mikita! I was hooked immediately. Good sound editing also. Reminded me of The Changeling. It was also good that there weren't any briefing room scenes in the very beginning. That stopped the episode from being cardboard too early on.

So, Mitchell likes to touch a lot of people in this ep, including Dr. Lam. Hmmm... Flashback to The Ties That Bind?

The fight between Mitchell and Teal'c was very good. There was one sequence where I wondered why they didn't cut away from Mitchell's double being thrown around. The reason was because it wasn't a double at all, it was Browder! Great job! Also the fight between Arcad and Teal'c at the end. As the gym mat got bloodier and bloodier, I wondered how many not-internet viewers actually thought that Teal'c was gonna bite the dust. I know I was for a second, and I should have known better.

And OMG! The angle that the sword entered Arcad's body. Ouch! And Teal'c pushing and pushing. I mean I was prepared to see some gory scenes, but that was just... Ouch!

And the end... I had tears in my eyes. Well spoken, Bra'tac. It was borderline cheesy but well fitting to the whole episode.

For an SG-1 episode: 8/10 (but that's just because I usually don't care for Teal'c and the Jaffa)

For a Teal'c/Jaffa episode: 10/10. Best episode ever.

saberhagen83
February 21st, 2007, 02:30 AM
I enjoyed this episode more then I expected when reading the spoilers. It was great to finally see Teal'c having something to do, I think the last time we had a proper Teal'c ep was in the beginning of S8. Some good action, really liked the fight at the end there, and decent storytelling too. Also a positive was that Bra'tac was in it, and didn't die :)! If there is something that draw the final score down a bit is that I really felt Teal'c was out of character. We have seen him seek revenge before in the show but this was taking it a bit to far. He would never turn away from his friends, or do something that could harm them in any way. All in all though a solid and good ep, which is nice to see after 2 bad eps. Think I need to watch it again today though, was to tired when watching it last night :P. But for now I would give it a solid 7.5/10. :tealc:

cjp240573
February 21st, 2007, 03:13 AM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?

I thought that I knew him from somewhere, how did he get this position?

raknor
February 21st, 2007, 03:52 AM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?

Yes it was hard to take, but very funny though and at least it convinved the other half to sit and watch it with me. Just thought his pronunciation of certain words was a bit off.

Overall better episode than I thought it would be, nice to see Teal'c going off on a total revenge kick and having to fight through Mitchell was a great touch.

Some good one liners and a great fight scene at the end.

Next Week Steve Owen is the new Prior to cause havoc in the MW and Grant Mitchell will join the Jaffa high council (sorry!!)

stuartea
February 21st, 2007, 03:58 AM
Ross Kemp? You know, as awful as that sounds, I think I'd rather like it. It does seem though that us Brits will always play the baddies.

Integrabyte
February 21st, 2007, 03:59 AM
I respect other people's opinion, however, to me, the last 3 SG1 episodes including this one seemed just something to waste time. We are waiting 1 week for one episode and we get this? I mean why do we need a 4 episode break before we know if the Ori or dead or NOT? Okay, we have some "rumours" about what will happen. Get on with it. :P :P

Commander Ivanova
February 21st, 2007, 04:02 AM
Well, wasn't it nice to see Cam getting his a** kicked? Really liked that bit. Good fight scenes, pretty rough stuff.
Didn't like Arkan, though, his acting sucked during the talky bits and it was only once he put those muscles to work that he seemed convincing. Not to mention a Sarf Lunnan (South London) accent doesn't work for me on a Jaffa.
But you know, Jaffa politics has always been an instant turnoff for me. If this ep has finally put all that to bed I'll be happy.

ShardsofGlass
February 21st, 2007, 04:08 AM
Well, wasn't it nice to see Cam getting his a** kicked? Really liked that bit. Good fight scenes, pretty rough stuff.
Didn't like Arkan, though, his acting sucked during the talky bits and it was only once he put those muscles to work that he seemed convincing. Not to mention a Sarf Lunnan (South London) accent doesn't work for me on a Jaffa.
But you know, Jaffa politics has always been an instant turnoff for me. If this ep has finally put all that to bed I'll be happy.

Why was it nice seeing Cam get his a** kicked?

nIckEl101
February 21st, 2007, 04:11 AM
enjoyed the ep, though Tealc, was near death twice, and made a miraculous recovery.

Dan from enders, didn't really cut it for me as Arkan... kinda issinuates that the british are cowards... we are not!! and he just didn't sound right in a rough london accent trying to talk like Tealc....

dubya83
February 21st, 2007, 04:15 AM
i did notice that.:tealcanime49: it looked cheap. maybe without the system lords the cool armour isnt made anymore.
oh well

i still enjoyed this episode

I think it is also a pain in the ass for the actors to wear the normal armor. I believe Chris Judge is particular has always disliked the armor and substituting the soft stuff makes it more bearable.

Notice how he has rarely worn it even among Jaffa since earlier seasons, usually wearing robes or just the chain-mail stuff.

Moreover, the actual armor is probably not very practical for the fight scenes either, limiting the choreography.

But that makes one wonder, why have the cheaper looking, soft armor at all? He only wore it for a few scenes anyway.

dubya83
February 21st, 2007, 04:18 AM
That was awful. I don't understand how people can insult decent episodes like Bounty and Bad Guys when there are episodes like this to insult. I thought I'd give this episode a shot because the last two had also looked awful from the preairing spoilers but this was the only one that I actually really disliked.

In all I give it a 1 or 2 out of 10.

How did Teal'c know they were lying in wait for him? And why concoct that whole plan to catch Teal'c anyway when they could just beam out from orbit.


The whole beam-out option had occured to me as well. It probably would have been easier to explain it away by making Odyssey "unavailable" leaving SG-1 to arrive via stargate. They also could have had Teal'c remove his subcutaneous trasmitter (ouch).

MechaThor
February 21st, 2007, 04:59 AM
Cool episode in which Teal'c gets his DIE HARD moment.
John Mclane: Jaffa Style.

Die Hard 5: "I Die Hard Free"

Good Points:
-The End Figth was class.
-Teal's line "i am going away as you are about to exsplode"
-Cam "TRAP WhAt TRAP?"
-Bratac did not Die! and the "you are the son i never had" ending.
-Jaffa flash garanads. I love them things.
-Cam vs Teal'c
-Vala's plan vs Daniels plan convo
-Cams fake mission report

Bad Points:
-What happened to the exsplosive exspert guy Teal'c tied up?
-Why say in the summery "Teal'c goes to an Alien bar" when its not. I was hoping for some star wars like space port place with at least one or two diffrent spieces. Oh well. Tipical Stargate.

7/10


enjoyed the ep, though Tealc, was near death twice, and made a miraculous recovery.

Dan from enders, didn't really cut it for me as Arkan... kinda issinuates that the british are cowards... we are not!! and he just didn't sound right in a rough london accent trying to talk like Tealc....

I think the accent worked well in the figth scenes as it made him seem like a rough London ganster type we see all over the movies. but not so well in the briefing room.

spaceangel
February 21st, 2007, 05:12 AM
I thought this was GREAT! Everyone acted in character, in fact we got to see them in greater depth. I was genuinely uncertain as to whether both Teal'c and Bra'tac would actually survive this ep. And the violence was wincingly real, unusual for SG-1 as someone else here has said. I was actually cringing at the final sword thrust!
Only one tiny, tiny criticism...could we not have a T-centric episode when he doesn't get the cr*p beaten out of him? Well I guess we won't now sob,sob.
This was a fantastic ending for Teal'c and his actor.

I have only watched this ep once so far, but didn't Dr Lam say that there had always been a team member by T's bed, rather than there was one particular one there for most of the time? I actually prefer the idea that there was a single vigil being kept, because of course , in my little corner of the universe it would be Daniel who sat there as he has by so many other people's bedsides. But I suspect that TPTB want it to be Cam. However, that is not what I heard anyway.

Sprinkles
February 21st, 2007, 05:35 AM
I have only watched this ep once so far, but didn't Dr Lam say that there had always been a team member by T's bed, rather than there was one particular one there for most of the time? I actually prefer the idea that there was a single vigil being kept, because of course , in my little corner of the universe it would be Daniel who sat there as he has by so many other people's bedsides. But I suspect that TPTB want it to be Cam. However, that is not what I heard anyway.

I wondered about that too and it made me notice that they specifically didn't mention who it was, so I guess its left up to the fans :D

I enjoyed this episode, the Eastenders guy did take me out of the story alittle but I suspect that won't be an issue for anyone but us Brits.

Yay that Bra'tac didn't die!

A Teal'c centered episode has been a long time in coming!

Commander Ivanova
February 21st, 2007, 05:36 AM
Why was it nice seeing Cam get his a** kicked?

I meant it was nice to see him getting his a** kicked because it was by Teal'c (!). Out of character, completely unexpected. Yet in line with the plot and the way Teal'c was feeling.
I love stuff like that, eg. when Daniel shot up the gateroom in Lockdown and Jack had to shoot him to take him down. And when Shep shot his team in Phantoms (I think it was).

-[SpArkY]-
February 21st, 2007, 06:39 AM
I took some screenshots (I know they are small)

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/815/talion1hv4.pnghttp://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3655/talion2rc7.png
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/365/talion3nt8.pnghttp://img503.imageshack.us/img503/2046/talion4ky2.png
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8406/talion5iu1.pnghttp://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4172/talion6dz5.png
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6114/talion7zd1.pnghttp://img99.imageshack.us/img99/986/talion8kp9.png
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/1355/talion9dj8.pnghttp://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7497/talion10fn5.png

Anubis69
February 21st, 2007, 06:56 AM
I have only watched this ep once so far, but didn't Dr Lam say that there had always been a team member by T's bed, rather than there was one particular one there for most of the time? I actually prefer the idea that there was a single vigil being kept, because of course , in my little corner of the universe it would be Daniel who sat there as he has by so many other people's bedsides. But I suspect that TPTB want it to be Cam. However, that is not what I heard anyway.
I personally thought Daniel. He was by Bra'tac's bedside as he woke, so it's natural to assume he was there a while and seeing as he's closer to Teal'c than Bra'tac... Perhaps. Also, if i remember right, the camera lingered on Daniel for a little while after that conversation... or something. I just remember getting that impression while watching.

xangela
February 21st, 2007, 07:10 AM
My only question is: Who was at Teal'c's bedside almost all the time (heavily tagged but not resolved)?

It wasn't one specific person with Teal'c the whole time. "Atleast one of them has been here ever since they brought you in." A poorly written line in my opinion, but she's clearly saying that there was atleast one person with him at all times.

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
February 21st, 2007, 07:49 AM
It would have been hilarious if they played the Teal'c PI music when that guy exploded

aaron54
February 21st, 2007, 08:23 AM
damn what a good episode i really enjoyed it that dude exploding was hilarious i particulaly enjoyed the lines "where are you going?" "i am leaving you are about to explode" "BOOM" rofl(sry my bad sense of humor) and teal'c completely owned cam and the rest of SG-1 but he took two staf hits and got stabbed through the stomac with a sort of samuri sword killed the bad dude and still survived damn what a machine teal'c is. i thought this was a great episode on of my favorites :'( why do they have to make the last part of season 10 so damn good it'll just make me miss it more :(

freyr's mother
February 21st, 2007, 08:32 AM
It was a good ep, but the part with tealc sticking the explosive in the guys symbiote pouch and walking away was just too Man on Fire-ish.

BJX
February 21st, 2007, 08:40 AM
That was absolutely spectacular, exactly the way Stargate should be done. Serious, powerful drama, none of that stupid non-sense we had to put up with the last two weeks.

Chris Judge was superb and this is without doubt the best Teal'c episode ever made. It was fantastic to see some more backstory on him and the further development in his relationship with Bre'tac.

The fight scenes were superb too. I didn't see he and Mitchell coming to blows but boy was that good.

It was great to see Beau Bridges get some good material to sink his teeth into, however it only highlights how underused his character and his acting talents have been in the recent past. What was great too was that even though this was most certainly a Teal'c driven episode all the characters, main and supporting, had their great moments. I especially loved Daniel's line, "I know Bretac would like to stab you through the eye with a big knife.":daniel:

This was also one of the darkest and most violent episodes in Stargate history, which is a very good thing. Archad's death was really savage and very explicitly shown. I really liked Archad aswell, I thought the actor was very good.

All in all, an absolutely superb episode that is easily running for best episode this season and definitely a top 10 episode. 10/10.

As a side note, Season 10 is so frustrating how can you go from an incredible 5 episode run from The Quest to The Shroud, followed by two pathetic episodes, and bounce back with something as good as this. Her's hoping the last three episodes will be equally as good and season 10 can finish as an extremely good season of television.

sg1_david
February 21st, 2007, 08:43 AM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?

If he had left his Walford accent behind I might have found him belieaveable. I kept waiting for him to say "LEAVE IT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHT".

Backwivthebaals
February 21st, 2007, 08:45 AM
you know, i loved the episode and everything but it seems to me that wiv only three eps left everything is a bit rushed..there seems to be something missing from stargate since season 9...it just seems like TPTB are taking the p*** now and dont really care

still give this ep 7/10..loved the sword thru arkhad bit :p

The_Carpenter
February 21st, 2007, 10:14 AM
One little nagging plot hole though...

When we see the Odyssey in hyperspace it is no longer cloaked. I guess we are to assume Carter figured out how Daniel/Merlin managed it and they can turn it on and off. Or they just unplugged the ZPM... :jack:

Would of been nice to of had a line saying something to that effect if not in this ep one of the previous.

Have to say was better than I expected never liked Jaffa episodes really, but its nice that they gave a bit of closure to Teal'cs story.

markaudette
February 21st, 2007, 11:03 AM
I really liked the underlying thread of this episode. One saying "Well, things change. We get older. And life goes on."

I really dig writing like this. While the episode was just about average (in my opinion), its message was the real joy. It did very well to move the character development to a place we can all identify. The show is coming to a close. Things are changing. Characters are changing. The world of Stargate is changing. Teal'c is now middle-aged. And Brata'c is the luckiest, most resillient person to have ever lived.

The ending scene with Brata'c and Teal'c was such a dear and heartwarming scene. It had this Stargate fan a little teary-eyed.

bcfc
February 21st, 2007, 11:55 AM
This was a good one proberley the best Teal'c stand alone for a while. Loved the bomb in the symbiote pouch and Teal'c Killing Cockney Jaffa with the long Blade right down his shoulder :eek:

And obviously Teal'c kicking seven kinds of **** out of Cam.


9/10


So is this the last time we will see Bratac? :(

The_Carpenter
February 21st, 2007, 12:12 PM
So is this the last time we will see Bratac? :(

Yes, unless he shows up in one of the films most likely the second :) and hopefully subsequent films if the first two do well :D

DelTrax1
February 21st, 2007, 12:13 PM
I'm going to have to say this is why I watched Stargate in the beginning. This is by far one of the best episodes in a very long time. Teal'c did an amazing job on this episode. AMAZING!!!!!!!

ussrelativity
February 21st, 2007, 12:32 PM
So far, seems pretty good. Can't wait to see it.

Pitry
February 21st, 2007, 01:10 PM
So, shall I be creative for once and start witht he compliments? (or maybe just mix them both?)

Very solid episode - was great to fianlly have Teal'c do something rather than stand there and raise na eyebrow. Which brings up the question - why didn't make the Arkad story an arc, rather than a one-time story? The Jaffa are a vital part of the story of Stargate, and wha5t's going on there - especially after Counterstrike and the attack on Dakkara - is very important to the show, as Talion obviously showed. So why bring this out of the blue, instead of run it in the background - much like the Jaffa/ Teal'c/ Gerak storyline in Avalon and Origin was? It would have given Teal'c some substential part in teh story and this wouldn't've felt like another Dakara - thrown out of the blue as aplot device because we need it. SG1 always was great on building these little cues, it's a shame that they didn't do it earlier on this one, again, much like Reckoning.
Teal'c.... at first I felt he was OOC in the episode, very much. But then, I do think a lot of it makes sense - after shauno'c, he's unlikely to let go of his revenge, and is very likely to go to any length - including torture and murder - to get his end. Which brings me to another question. If I can make that connection, why couldn't DK? Why ddi they need to bring up that stupid, pointless, never mentioned in 10 years! story about his mother. instead of just remind the audience of how Teal'c felt in Crossroads, Exodus and Between Two Fires - every time Tanith ran away, and how he was willing to risk everything back in those episodes in order to get his revenge? Stupid plot device, again - and this time it wasn't even necessary.
Loved the bit with the human, cheering for the death of Jaffa - I've been waiting for something like that ever since the FJaffa Nation was created - there are billions of former slaves in thegalaxy, they're bound not to like the Jaffa and hold them responsible. I think I definitely gave a "finally!" out loud when he spoke :) And also when Teal'c wasn't this invincible this time against Arkad... liked it.
Another plus - the [part about some Jaffa joining in with the Orii. Hopefully this would come to play in the (remaining three! NO! :() next episodes. Quite a feat it would be, if Earth ends up beign attacked by joint Jaffa/ Orii fleet, not Orii alone like they showed in Road not Taken.

One other note, very enjoyed the team bonding in this episode. Even the parts that included Teal'c alost breaking Mitchell's hand, hehe. Somewhere, you jsut have to feel he felt a remote satisfaction :) There were definitely lovely moments in this one - and manm, really enjoyed the Teal'c/ Landry argeuemnt! Teal'c's right, tho - had the casualties been SG teams rather than Jaffa he'd ahve got a different speech. One thing that's a shame tho - that they didn't have the time to show some fallout from Teal'c's decision to leave the SGC/ come back when Arkad was dead etc. Which is another reason why this should have been an arc, rather than a stand-alone. Had they cut down the explanations, they'd've had time for that.

Oooh, and Lam is back. I do like her :) so yay!
And one last note... Dar Askelon? Did Ba'al name that one? ;)

AutumnDream
February 21st, 2007, 01:29 PM
The whole thing played like a "Previously On Stargate SG-1" segment.

- Bra'tac and Teal'c are found gravely injured on another world. Done that.
- Teal'c gets angry and leaves the SGC to pursue his own mission. Done that.
- Teal'c is hell bent on on killing a guy who killed one of his loved ones. Done that.

I'm sure there were other things I can't think of right now.

P-90_177
February 21st, 2007, 01:38 PM
loved this ep. i miss tealcs revenge trips. season 10 keeps getting better and better.

Uber
February 21st, 2007, 01:39 PM
Fairly good albeit incredibly violent Teal'c episode. *remembers the shish ka-jaffa at the end*

I did have a couple of problems with it. Like the hand-to-hand fight with Mitchell, for instance. It would have been a lot more powerful had Teal'c and Daniel fought, or Teal'c and Sam...because they all share a 10 year history together and it would have resonated a lot more with me personally. I didn't really care that Mitchell was getting his butt kicked and frankly, Teal'c didn't seem all that conflicted about beating Mitchell to a pulp.

And how about that recovery time? Mitchell was up and running just in time to rush into the building with the others...and he looked fresh as a daisy too.

I suppose we're supposed to be okay with Mitchell lying on his report. Are to then assume that Sam, Daniel and Vala also lied? Don't get me wrong...I don't mind them protecting one of their own like that. It's just that after getting into a major fight with a friend and fists are flying, it would have been nice to see some sort of aftermath between the team members. Instead, it was just kinda swept under the carpet.

I didn't care a whole lot for seeing Teal'c resort to truly evil tactics to get what he wanted though. He's supposed to be one of the good guys. Now we all know that Teal'c is relentless when on one of his JRT kicks...but serious lines were crossed in this one. In the past he was willing to at least consider putting the needs of others ahead of his personal vendettas...but here he wouldn't even budge. Further, he was more than committed to getting what he wanted. I'm sorry...but I have a hard time cheering him blowing someone up like that. Dedication is one thing...but seriously...

I loved the scenes with Bra'tac though. They added that nice bit of pathos we've missed for a while. His scenes with Teal'c were heartfelt and compelling and truly, he is one of the staples of this show. I'm also relieved that he didn't get killed off here.

So, definitely a VAST improvement over the last two weeks...but it still missed the mark by missing some obvious opportunities for team angst and tension.

And of course, we never found out who was camped by Teal'c's bedside all that time. I suppose that fits with the new mindset...which is, don't actually tell people a story; leave it vague so that everyone can interpret things however they want to.

P-90_177
February 21st, 2007, 01:48 PM
Fairly good albeit incredibly violent Teal'c episode.

I did have a couple of problems with it. Like the hand-to-hand fight with Mitchell, for instance. It would have been a lot more powerful had Teal'c and Daniel fought, or Teal'c and Sam...because they all share a 10 year history together and it would have resonated a lot more with me personally. I didn't really care that Mitchell was getting his butt kicked and frankly, Teal'c didn't seem all that conflicted about beating Mitchell to a pulp.
.

Well Cam still doesn't know T as well as the others plus he's the only one that's been trained by jaffa (the sodan) so he would have the best chance. The rest of the team wouldn't have ought him either. They would have tried talking to him. Mitchell knew what he had to do.

jenks
February 21st, 2007, 01:51 PM
Fairly good albeit incredibly violent Teal'c episode. *remembers the shish ka-jaffa at the end*

I did have a couple of problems with it. Like the hand-to-hand fight with Mitchell, for instance. It would have been a lot more powerful had Teal'c and Daniel fought, or Teal'c and Sam...because they all share a 10 year history together and it would have resonated a lot more with me personally. I didn't really care that Mitchell was getting his butt kicked and frankly, Teal'c didn't seem all that conflicted about beating Mitchell to a pulp.

I think they chose Mitchell because he's the only one who would stand half a chance...

Uber
February 21st, 2007, 01:51 PM
Well Cam still doesn't know T as well as the others plus he's the only one that's been trained by jaffa (the sodan) so he would have the best chance. The rest of the team wouldn't have ought him either. They would have tried talking to him. Mitchell knew what he had to do.I think they would have fought him. They would have tried to talk to him first, just like Mitchell did, but their orders were to contain him at all costs and they would have done what they had to do.

Just because Daniel and Sam weren't "trained by the Sodan" doesn't mean they can't fight. In fact both have and can fight hand-to-hand when necessary and frankly it would have been more meaningful to see these friends of a decade on opposing sides having to literally duke it out.

Uber
February 21st, 2007, 01:52 PM
I think they chose Mitchell because he's the only one who would stand half a chance...Given what we know and have seen of the others fighting, I don't think that's a fair assessment of their abilities.

P-90_177
February 21st, 2007, 02:06 PM
I think they would have fought him. They would have tried to talk to him first, just like Mitchell did, but their orders were to contain him at all costs and they would have done what they had to do.

Just because Daniel and Sam weren't "trained by the Sodan" doesn't mean they can't fight. In fact both have and can fight hand-to-hand when necessary and frankly it would have been more meaningful to see these friends of a decade on opposing sides having to literally duke it out.

well i have no doubt that they can fight. but no where near as well as mitchell or tealc. i don't think it would have had more meaning...............it just wouldn't have lasted as long.

Uber
February 21st, 2007, 02:08 PM
well i have no doubt that they can fight. but no where near as well as mitchell or tealc. i don't think it would have had more meaning...............it just wouldn't have lasted as long.Not sure how you've come to this conclusion.

In one of the first episodes we saw Carter in, she lasted quite a while versus a warlord in a knife fight. And won. We've seen her fight off and on throughout the years and I'm guessing is a better fighter now than she was ten years ago.

Now she would have lost because the story demanded it...but to suggest she couldn't have held her own doesn't fit in with what's been established in cannon.

Pitry
February 21st, 2007, 02:11 PM
And how about that recovery time? Mitchell was up and running just in time to rush into the building with the others...and he looked fresh as a daisy too.

I suppose we're supposed to be okay with Mitchell lying on his report. Are to then assume that Sam, Daniel and Vala also lied? Don't get me wrong...I don't mind them protecting one of their own like that. It's just that after getting into a major fight with a friend and fists are flying, it would have been nice to see some sort of aftermath between the team members. Instead, it was just kinda swept under the carpet.

I think both are catalysts for the same thing - Teal'c did his best not to huirt Mitchell because he's a friend and he cares about him - and they're willing to forgive Teal'c what he's done because of their friendship. While this migth be the first time SG1's members went after each other, this by far isn't the first time one of them has put the others in risk. They're willing to go to enough lengths to forgive nad forget, especially as they seem to quite agree with his reasons.


I didn't care a whole lot for seeing Teal'c resort to truly evil tactics to get what he wanted though. He's supposed to be one of the good guys. Now we all know that Teal'c is relentless when on one of his JRT kicks...but serious lines were crossed in this one. In the past he was willing to at least consider putting the needs of others ahead of his personal vendettas...but here he wouldn't even budge. Further, he was more than committed to getting what he wanted. I'm sorry...but I have a hard time cheering him blowing someone up like that. Dedication is one thing...but seriously...

I agree lines were crossed in this one.... I acutlaly do think Teal'c acted Teal'c-ish - he made it quite clear after he thought Tanith has escaped in Exodus he will never let the subject of his JRT (lol at initials btw :)) get away again. And also he doesn't hold in high regard any of the people he tortured.... it's rather the flippant way SG1 dealt with it I'm uncomfortable with. In 10 years, this is a first in SG1 (not SGA, tho, unfortunately) - a true moral arguement that's being swept under the carpet.



And of course, we never found out who was camped by Teal'c's bedside all that time. I suppose that fits with the new mindset...which is, don't actually tell people a story; leave it vague so that everyone can interpret things however they want to.

Nono, I think they meant one of the team was always at his bedside, as in they took shifts to make sure there's always someone there :)

Uber
February 21st, 2007, 02:16 PM
Nono, I think they meant one of the team was always at his bedside, as in they took shifts to make sure there's always someone there :)Ah. Oops. Okay. Well my commentary about their vagueness still stands, it just doesn't apply in that case. ;)

talyn2k1
February 21st, 2007, 02:44 PM
Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?

I knew i`d seen him somewhere before!

I just hate that put on semi-aristocrat English accent. News to America - WE DONT ALL TALK LIKE THAT!

He was making a big fluff of his pronunciation in the briefing room scenes and thats when I really thought to myself "god I wish they`d got someone else to play this part!"

We haven't seen dark side Teal'c since the Tanith / Chronos storylines so it was good to see that side of him again and to see him shouting at Landry - could see the surprise in his face :)

Good scenes:
Teal'c shouting at Landry
Teal'c fighting Mitchell
Every scene that involved Teal'c doing something REALLY bad.
The final fight scene between Teal'c and Arkad
Teal'c and Bra'tac bonding at the end of the episode. Bra'tac's statement that he would've come away from a fight like that without a scratch in the past (although to be fair to him he had been staffed twice by that point!)

Bad scenes:
Arkad in the briefing room scene - just not convincing at all
Any scene where Arkad spoke with that rubbish posh English accent!

Nitpicks:
Just the one today. In the scene where Mitchell finds SG-? unconscious the weapons fire that flies over him is clearly from an Ori staff but Teal'c is carrying a Sodan staff and no one was witnessed on that planet with an Ori staff.

Conclusion:
A good Teal'c episode and a good continuation of SG-1's run of great episodes.
7/10 - would've been 8/9 if Arkad had been played by a different actor. Thank god they killed him cos now there is no chance of him turning up again.

One question: Dan...I mean Arkad, stated that he controlled a fleet more powerful than any other System Lord has before. Does that mean his fleet is bigger than Anubis' or Apophis' fleets? If so, how big is the fleet controlled by the council?

sgeureka
February 21st, 2007, 02:47 PM
Just because Daniel and Sam weren't "trained by the Sodan" doesn't mean they can't fight. In fact both have and can fight hand-to-hand when necessary and frankly it would have been more meaningful to see these friends of a decade on opposing sides having to literally duke it out.While I agree on a script level, I have major objections to this on how this would actually have looked on-screen.

AT's fight scenes (e.g. The Road Not Taken, Desperate Measures) looked very choreographed to me, unfortunately in the bad sense. I doubt that AT could come anywhere close in believability to what we've seen between Mitchell and Teal'c in this episode.

Daniel - maybe. His only "real" fight was in Prometheus Unbound though (I think?), and he could hardly fight off Vala then. That was also played for laughs, so I can't tell how many viewers would associate laughter with an SG-1 vs. Teal'c fight.

And although CB was pretty convincing in Aeryn Sun fights, Vala is just too fly weight for Teal'c,

So, out of all the options, I would have chosen Mitchell. And that's what the writers did, too. :)

JackDaniels
February 21st, 2007, 02:56 PM
Yeah, so when I realised it was a Jaffa storyline I thought I would be partially watching whilst doing something else. How wrong was I? I'm sure there are others amongst you who tend to zone out on Teal'c storylines. Don't get me wrong, I love Teal'c and he was some of the best one liners in the show, but guys with tatoos on their heads wearing oversized dressing gowns and discussing their freedom can only take you so far. And although I'm now going to talk about what I liked about the episode can someone just tell me...
WHEN IS BRA'TAC FINALLY GOING TO BECOME LEADER OF THE JAFFA SO THEY CAN GET RID OF ALL THE CRAZY NUTTY JAFFA LEADERS?

Gripe over. Yes those Brits amongst us would say, Dan from Eastenders bent our minds and the accent was beyond annoying at times, but hey, minor details.
Teal'c's aggression was palpable, and whilst Bra'tac felt it had a great deal to do with past conflicts with Arkad, by the end of the episode there was the greater revelation that it was his fear of losing Bra'tac that motivated him. their scenes at the end for some reason reminded me of Daniel and Teal'c in "The Changeling" - they will always be there for each other.
I also liked the fact that Teal'c is no longer the powerful warrior that he used to be. Don't get me wrong, he's still a big strong scary dude, but cast you mind back even to season 8 where he's running killing guys with two staff weapons (sacrifices) and he's no longer the same. Yet his determination to see the Jaffa free is stronger than ever, and that is something this episode reminds us of.
His line when he left the guy to explode was priceless.
His fight scene with Mitchell was good (the perception that he didn't seem bothered about kicking his ass was probably true - it was his evil twin who got to do it in Ripple Effect). I wish he would have had more interaction with Sam and Daniel, but the silence in the locker room when they all considered how they could challenge him said everything, as did the way they stood by him.

This episode confirmed to me how strong this season of SG1 has been (especially against season 9, which as I've re-watched it on DVD isn't that strong). Long live the Teal'c - man who has nearly been crippled several times but can use handy time devices to be back on his feet in no time and then kick some serious ass.

jenks
February 21st, 2007, 04:31 PM
Not sure how you've come to this conclusion.

In one of the first episodes we saw Carter in, she lasted quite a while versus a warlord in a knife fight. And won. We've seen her fight off and on throughout the years and I'm guessing is a better fighter now than she was ten years ago.

Now she would have lost because the story demanded it...but to suggest she couldn't have held her own doesn't fit in with what's been established in cannon.

Why? I'd say she was in her prime at the begining of SG-1, it's all downhill from there. I'd say holding your own in a knife fight with an old man is far off from being first prime to Apophis or being trained to be able to fight like the most elite group of Jaffa in existence...

Uber
February 21st, 2007, 04:39 PM
Why? I'd say she was in her prime at the begining of SG-1, it's all downhill from there. I'd say holding your own in a knife fight with an old man is far off from being first prime to Apophis or being trained to be able to fight like the most elite group of Jaffa in existence...Whereas I'd say she was a bit green before and has gotten better and stronger with time. She's a battle seasoned soldier now who's worked with and has known Teal'c for a decade.

BTW, that "old man" was a warlord who went out on raiding campaigns quite regularly, and I daresay was skilled in the art of hand to hand combat. Sam held her own against him and defeated him.

I would have liked to have seen her fighting Teal'c. Firstly because it would have meant more seeing these friends of a decade come to literal blows and secondly to see how the fight would have progressed. They know each other...probably have sparred with each other. They know the other's strengths and weaknesses. They would have known more about what to exploit in the fight and I would have found it more compelling to watch.

Yes Sam would have lost in the end, as this is what was needed in the story, but I don't agree that the fight would have been as short lived as you'd imagine and I further don't agree with the comment that "it's all downhill from there."

jenks
February 21st, 2007, 04:46 PM
I think you're giving her far too much credit if you even measure how long she'd last in seconds, I reckon one swing from Teal'c and she'd be out for the count, he's probably got more muscle in his big toe than she hasin her whole body!

P-90_177
February 21st, 2007, 05:06 PM
Plus keep in mind that Tealc is a jaffa. They are stronger than most humans. That warlord did overpower carter at one point. It's just that she kept her head and got the better of her. That warlord will have never got the kind of training a jaffa gets. Esspecially one trained by the legendary master bratac. sam, daniel and vala would have just had their asses handed to them on a plate.

o-0
February 21st, 2007, 05:06 PM
When that corrupt guy said he killed Tealc's mom, i imagined Tealc thinking "Wut u say 'bout mah momma?"

Tealc is truly gangsta. He survived two consecutive staff blows and still managed to kick ass

golfbooy
February 21st, 2007, 05:31 PM
HA! Bra'tac Lives! Take that Death! Ride that pale, cloven-hooved ass of yours elsewhere! He totally pwns Jacob, Janet, Martouf, Col. Chekov, all those idiot Tollan, and a bevy of others in the Stargate Dead Pool! He spits his obolus back at Charon and says, "Keep the change, bi*tch!" Ahem, sorry. I'm just a little relieved. So, let me express my undying appreciation for the fact that Bra'tac seems to have survived for the entirety of SG-1's run. He's essentially the last really meaningful character that the writers can easily kill off. I'm exceptionally grateful that they didn't go that route. Now, I hope to see Bra'tac in the movies, where he can perform other fantastic feats of greatness, such as dividing by zero and actually counting to infinity.

Right, on to Talion. As has been said already, Talion was way, way better than the last two episodes have been. It was a good episode. It wasn't great, and it certainly had its flaws, but it was a lot more solid than many, many of the episodes from the last two years. But, typically, I'm going to start on a down note.

It seems that the writers have totally lost all sense of direction with the Jaffa. And that's sad. Following the first half of season nine, it seemed that the writers were going to continue to tell the tale of the birth of a Jaffa nation. The last scene in Stronghold, one of the few very good ones in season nine, where Teal'c and Bra'tac emerge from the vote for democracy, at least gave the impression that the Jaffa were going to remain an important part of the story. I thought they were going to continue to show the Jaffa growing as a people and working with the Tau'ri against the Ori. Isn't that where the whole Gerak business was supposed to take the Jaffa? Instead, in season ten the Jaffa have been abandoned to a level of stupidity and disorganization that was previously unprecedented in the show. Joe Mallozzi's depiction of the Jaffa in Counterstrike was ridiculously out of sync with the path that they had been set on in the previous season. Following that embarrassing outing, the Jaffa (sadly, including Teal'c) have been almost totally ignored. Until Talion, that is. Here, the Jaffa are shown as a fractured society, one that does indeed seem to be foundering without the guiding hand, albeit maliciously, of the Goa'uld. I don't think that is what the writers really are trying to depict, so I'm going to try to forget everything that the writers have done to the Jaffa in season ten and move on from here. Hopefully Rob Cooper and Brad Wright will do better by them in the movies. They are, despite many fans' complaints of Jaffa episodes, a huge part of the SG-1 world, and one that accounts for much of SG-1's richness and depth.

This is a Teal'c episode, and in true New Stargate fashion, he was the only character who ever felt connected to the story. Everyone else was just along for the ride, not permitted to contribute or involve themselves in the experiences Teal'c was having. The Road Not Taken was the same for Carter, Uninvited was the same for Mitchell, and Memento Mori was the same for Vala. You want to know why the new team doesn't have that family, tight-knit feeling that Sam, Jack, Teal'c, and Daniel used to have? It's because they're never written as a team. Everyone is always seperated, and the team's interactions with each other are usually trite and meaningless. Who's interested in investing in a bunch of people who come across as co-workers?

I really have no problems with Teal'c's characterization in this one. Yes, it was a more graphic and brutal depiction of violence than the show usually goes with. Nonetheless, it has always been understood, if not often blatantly demonstrated, that the characters in the show have gone through and done some horrific things. It's what makes them so interesting as characters. It has certainly always been implied, from the very first season, that Teal'c, Bra'tac, and yes, Jack, have all done and are entirely capable of terrible, horrible things. Teal'c and Bra'tac were both First Primes of Apophis. War and ruthless destruction were a way of life for them for over a hundred years. Likewise, O'neill was always such an engaging character because of his past. It's those dark places in the characters' pasts that allows them to find the redemption they have in their current lives at the SGC and in each other. By the same token, over the course of SG-1's run we've gotten to see Daniel and Sam both struggle with their own losses of innocence and the brutality and pyschological toll that constant war takes upon soldiers. Vala's own part in such atrocities was built in to her character from the beginning, but she's been woefully abandoned to the role of comic relief in almost every episode, allowing for little character growth or exploration. Mitchell's lack of any such past or qualities is one of the reasons he's such an uninteresting character. Everyone else has stuff going on beneath the surface, past experiences and decisions that color every action and thing they do in the current episodes. But he doesn't. And that sets him apart from the rest of the team.

I sort of got off on a little tangent there, so let's get back to Teal'c. His brutality is not out of character. I always had the impression that Teal'c was capable of severe violence. His barely-checked anger at Fro'tac in Family as well as his vicious taunting of Tanith in Exodus both clearly indicate that Teal'c is capable of exacting extreme retribution from those that personally wrong him. We see that again here in Talion. But honestly, does anyone believe that if Teal'c ever had the opportunity to personally lay his hands on Tanith that he would ever have been more merciful than he was to Arcad? It's easy to see how Teal'c became so successful as Apophis' First Prime, and it's also easy to see how such atrocities could easily take their toll on someone who is, deep down, a good man. That Teal'c's past is so littered with war crimes and brutality makes his turn against Apophis, against the Goa'uld and their way in Children of the Gods, all the more dramatic and meaningful. Likewise, it also makes it conceivable that Teal'c is entirely capable, even likely, to cry "havoc".

I understand some of the complaints that things were "out of character" in the episode, I'm just not too sure it was from Teal'c's end. I think that it was the SGC, and subsequently SG-1, who were made to be out of character. Landry, with typical impotency, seems to just totally roll over for the IOA. I can't believe that the SGC, under either Hammond or O'neill, would ever have gone after Teal'c to "stop him by whatever means necessary." Neither do I believe that they would ever have trusted Arcad enough to try and stop Teal'c. That was the most implausible part of the whole thing to me, that they'd all talk about how perfectly aware they were that they were being politically led about on a leash by Arcad and then, well, let themselves be led about. There was a time when SG-1, especially Sam and Daniel, would never have let Teal'c walk through that gate by himself. It was out of character that they did so here, and did so knowing his intentions, though I suppose it fits with the "just coworkers" vibe that has replaced the formerly familial relationship of the team. Those things are the roots of my "out of character" complaints with Talion, not Teal'c.

Speaking of Arcad, I've not watched Eastenders, and so had none of the difficulties with the character (or actor, as it were) that many others did. I thought he was interesting, and could have been moreso. The most interesting thing about Talion was the parallels it brought up between Arcad and Teal'c as First Primes, as warriors, and now as leaders. It was a shame that he got painted with the "he worships the Ori, he's evil" brush. A bit more exploration into the fine line between the two men and their paths would have made this one a real keeper. I thought the other most interesting part of the episode was the peek into prior Jaffa culture under the Goa'uld. Were acts of retribution, such as the murder of Teal'c's mother, common? How had Arcad been a fomer student of Bra'tac, only to wind up in the service of another Goa'uld? Perhaps an alliance between Apophis and some other Goa'uld gone wrong? I really wish that the writers hadn't so completely abandoned that tapestry they'd woven. It was pretty awesome.

Chris Judge again showed that he is capable of so much more than he is usually given. He was great in the scene between Teal'c and Landry, and was equally adept in the fight scenes in Talion. My only complaint is that he looked ridiculous. I hate every single hair on Teal'c's head, and it's only there because of Chris Judge. I'll overlook it though (magnanimous of me, no?), if more Teal'c stories show up down the road. There's been a refreshing seriousness to Teal'c this year, all the more so in the face of such silliness much of the time.

Next up is Mitchell, who bore the honor of getting the crap kicked out of him. I'm not afraid to say I liked that scene, no matter how small you all think me. And it's not really because Mitchell is, in my estimation, among the worst characters SG-1 has ever had. As I said above, I think it was out of character for SG-1 to play the IOA's puppets and go to such lengths to stop Teal'c. That being my interpretation, I'm glad it was Cameron who suffered the ignominy of trying to physically stop Teal'c. I don't think that Carter or Daniel (or Jack if he was there) would have actually fought Teal'c. I just can't see them siding against him, nor do I see them ignoring his warnings about Arcad. They know him too well, trust him too much. I guess it could have been Vala, but that's not really in her character either. And the fight would have been an even more heinous mismatch than it was. No, it had to be Mitchell. He's the only character who comes across as enough of an outsider to go against Teal'c. Likewise, he's probably the only one of the team who is by the book enough to "stop Teal'c at any cost". I believe that Cam would have shot if Teal'c had given him the opportunity. It's subjective as to whether or not you think that speaks highly of Mitchell. Personally, I'm not too pleased with that characterization of Mitchell, though maybe it is consistent with Cam's dismissal of Teal'c's overtures of gratitude at the end of Stronghold.

Carter, Daniel, and Vala were nonentities in this episode. I hate that. And I hate the way that they all just do what Landry tells them to, despite what I know to be their better judgement. I think they all miss having Jack and Hammond there to keep them true to themselves and the show. Or at least the writers need to have those two characters there, rather, because this is just getting ridiculously far away from the show's theme. At the very least, if you're going to show everyone disagreeing with the orders being given by Landry and falsifying mission reports, show some fallout or tension between everyone and Landry. Or show SG-1 uniting and becoming closer because of their association in this lie. That at least would have gained something.

I have no nice things to say about Landry. If he's going to be as much a patsy as General Bauer was, then at least treat him as such. If Landry is to be shown as a strong leader, then he cannot bend to the will of the IOA against his own better judgement.

Talion was more of a success than a failure. But, as has been the case for a long time now, there were many, many missed opportunities for both conflict and team bonding. But, and I think I mentioned this above, Bra'tac lived. So, pshaw to the rest. Bra'tac wins.

Zamboni
February 21st, 2007, 05:35 PM
I have just three words:

Man On Fire

Oh well at least Teal'C inserted the bomb in the pouch and not the anus...

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
February 21st, 2007, 06:00 PM
2nd straight different kind of SG-1 episode. Last week, hostage-type episode and this week a 24-type episode (with the torture and stuff). With the exception of The Shroud and Quest Part 2, this was one of the episode episodes of the second half of Season 10. I give it a **1/2.

All hail the USAF
February 21st, 2007, 06:35 PM
This summer...Christopher Judge stars in

Jaffa On Fire

coltp9302
February 21st, 2007, 07:05 PM
CAN SOMEONE GIVE A SUMMARY OF WHAT HAPPEND IN TALION PLEASE. YOU KNOW THAT EPISODE THAT AIRED THE OTHER DAY. PLEASE!!! SOME OF US DON'T HAVE THE LUXERY OF SEEING IT WHEN YALL DO! THANKS:mckay:

Agent_Dark
February 21st, 2007, 07:08 PM
stuff.

PG15
February 21st, 2007, 07:18 PM
Take a look in the episode thread; there's a summary in there somewhere.

coltp9302
February 21st, 2007, 07:29 PM
Ok, I know its in the episode stuff, duh!!!! What i wanted to know is from someone who has wached it what happend, more detail, left out facts....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PG15
February 21st, 2007, 07:34 PM
You misunderstand; somebody has posted a full summary of the episode in the episode thread, scene by scene, of what happened.

Skythe
February 21st, 2007, 07:35 PM
Finally, the episode love that teal'c deserves!

unknown.entity
February 21st, 2007, 07:54 PM
CAN SOMEONE GIVE A SUMMARY OF WHAT HAPPEND IN TALION PLEASE. YOU KNOW THAT EPISODE THAT AIRED THE OTHER DAY. PLEASE!!! SOME OF US DON'T HAVE THE LUXERY OF SEEING IT WHEN YALL DO! THANKS:mckay:Read posts 5 and 7 in this thread: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=39265.

the fifth man
February 21st, 2007, 07:55 PM
A lot of awesome stuff went on. Awesome.

the fifth man
February 21st, 2007, 08:57 PM
I can't believe how much this episode rocked. One of the best Teal'c/Jaffa story episodes ever IMO.:) And seeing that it was most likely the last like that, it was a fitting end. I am so happy Bra'tac survived. He's been one of my favorite guest characters over the years.

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
February 21st, 2007, 09:26 PM
I can't believe how much this episode rocked. One of the best Teal'c/Jaffa story episodes ever IMO.:) And seeing that it was most likely the last like that, it was a fitting end. I am so happy Bra'tac survived. He's been one of my favorite guest characters over the years.

I think this may possibly be the first time that I've ever disagreed with you on an episode. I've got to say, I was a bit bored with Carter and Daniel being backseated, and I think the pace of the episode was killed by that all the exposition was strictly based off of heresay. A few particular scenes annoyed me most, though - among them, the early-on scene between Landry and Teal'c. Both of them were very... wooden, and barely demonstrated any body language or emotion whatsoever. Then Teal'c played the 'would you do something about it if it was humans killed and not Jaffa?' card, which just seemed way out of line and very out of character. There's no denying that Teal'c was who he is in the episode for the most part, but that line was just out there.

A decent episode. Grateful that Bra'tec lived.

**1/2

Quinn Mallory
February 21st, 2007, 09:33 PM
It's about time we get a good Teal'c episode. I like the whole Teal'c going rogue part but I did think the knocking out of Sam, Daniel, and Vala was a bit too convenient. Anyhow, I have to admit that I have not been a big fan of the most free Jaffa nation episodes but I do like this episode overall. It's a nice change of pace to more serious matter after last week's Bad Guy (which I enjoyed).

Chaka's_Mum
February 22nd, 2007, 12:28 AM
I half expected Peggy to pop out from behind a staff weapon and bleat "'Ere, woss goin' on?" in true EastEnders style.

I like that! Wonder what she would be like with a zat behind the bar of the Queen Vic? Scary...:D


I thought he was considerably better than some of the extras we have seen actually, I was rewatching Full Circle today and Anubis' first prime was IMO very poorly acted

Ironically, I thought Michael Adamthwaite gave the more convincing performance as Herak than Craig Fairbrass did as Arkad! Weird, innit? :S

Somehow (at least, for me), he just 'worked' as a First Prime - whereas Craig didn't. Again, that could just be an issue for us Brits who remember him as 'Dan from Eastenders', and our US/Aussie/Canadian fellows (not to mention those of us from the UK who weren't aware he'd been in Eastenders) will wonder what on earth we're all fussing about!:o

But, given that Arkad was the first Jaffa we've come across who speaks with the aforementioned 'sarf lunn'on' accent, it just didn't seem to sit right in comparison to the much more measured speech that normally issues from Jaffa - not to mention the fact that I found him just too softly spoken to fit the accustomed profile of a Jaffa, First Prime or no. It just jarred - and it made his performance seem terribly unconvincing, particularly during the scene in the Briefing Room. Somehow, it sounded like everyone else in the room was acting, but he was just reciting lines. Sorry if that offends anyone - but that's how it came across to me!:)

I wouldn't go as far as to say it was a bad performance (after all, things perked up considerably once the fisticuffs began - that was certainly awesome!), just that he didn't seem to fit the character he was playing.

It's rather like in 'Holiday' when RDA had to play Teal'c. No one could seriously deny that he is a fantastic actor - we all know for a fact that he is. However, his performance as Teal'c was terribly wooden and he sounded like he was sedated (a conclusion we have all largely come to in the 'Holiday' Ep thread).

Again, this could be a slightly unfair assessment as a lot of us in the UK still see Craig as 'Dan from Eastenders'. It will be interesting to see what fans who don't have that associated baggage will think when the ep airs elsewhere. We already have a few Brits who are in that position and who wouldn't agree with the view that it wasn't convincing, so it'll be interesting to see how this pans out!

:indeed:

jenks
February 22nd, 2007, 03:49 AM
^^ I thought his acting was quality, alot better than the usual actors they get to play Jaffa. The accent didn't bother me either, there are plenty of aliens with American accents and a Goa'uld with a blatant South African one, I see no harm in it...

Pharaoh Atem
February 22nd, 2007, 04:54 AM
CAN SOMEONE GIVE A SUMMARY OF WHAT HAPPEND IN TALION PLEASE. YOU KNOW THAT EPISODE THAT AIRED THE OTHER DAY. PLEASE!!! SOME OF US DON'T HAVE THE LUXERY OF SEEING IT WHEN YALL DO! THANKS:mckay:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=6352721&postcount=5

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=6352727&postcount=7


this has to be the most violate episode ever for the series but Chris was amazing.
i turned away when he teal'c rammed the blade into that guys heart.

chris proved that if you give him lines he can give you his very best everytime.

The Ori
February 22nd, 2007, 06:08 AM
Loved it again and again and again!

blufeenix
February 22nd, 2007, 06:08 AM
I commented on this ep in the discussion while it was airing but I'll make it official in this one. Great ep it's always nice to see Chris Judge get allot more screen time although I agree with what's been said on some of the DVD commentaries that Judge can do so much with a look.. the cam/teal'c fight was fantastic and cam did rather well as I expected it to be over allot quicker also I tilt my hat to Ben for once again throwing himself around and as a farscape fan too I expect nothing less.. Daniel/Vala's conversations while waiting for Teal'c were also really good.. the only thing I didn't like was the conclusion too Teal'c and Arkhads fight - landing on a spike is overly used.. I still remember the last episode of Buffy season 1 when the master lands on a piece of broken table (that you saw sticking out earlier and the camera lingered on it for a second or too) so it was like oh i wonder whats gonna happen here.. at least in sg-1 you couldn't see it coming but it was still rather lame.. I would have preferred something more original.

IcyNeko
February 22nd, 2007, 09:44 AM
This episode left me with a mix of feelings. On one hand, character development is a wonderful thing, and I highly encourage it. However, between the timing of character development and weak story, this episode left me with a lot of disappointment.

This episode is chock-ful of character development. I would have loved to see this earlier in the stargate story arc, instead of so late in the game. Trying to develop teal'c this late makes it seem more like fan service than it does actual development. It also makes secondary characters (Bra'tac) feel expendible. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers end up killing Bra'tac after this episode -- it seems like one to soften the blow, especially with the dialogue at the end.

The story writing was weak. Stargate is often well written and contains plot twists that keeps one on the edge of their seat. But in this one, I knew what the ending would eb like from the beginning. The only twist was in the injuries that Teal'c sustained. I would have preferred more story depth, personally.

Costume work seemed to be lacking too. All the jaffa solider armor seemed downgraded and cheap. This could be due to funding running out, which is a shame.

All in all, a mediocre episode at best. Too little, too late.

Jeffer
February 22nd, 2007, 01:23 PM
great Ep one of the best Teal'c centric eps to date. through the entire ep i could hear in my head RDA saying its a Jaffa revenge thing

Johnquixote
February 22nd, 2007, 03:59 PM
Very great episode.
This episode was not a family friendly episode, which I like, even though they achieved adultness through much violence, the one thing that always bugged me about SG-1 was the deep plot of false gods enslaving and torturing the universe being put into a family friendly show. Anyone noticed the increased use of curse words this season?

Also, interesting nitpick, during Teal'c's big kick at the end, Archad kneels down on Teal'c's left and up to his chest, and then tells him he killed his mother, somehow Teal'c power kicks Archad with his right foot in his chest.

Anonmatel
February 22nd, 2007, 09:26 PM
Teal's Sateda, was my first thought...

There was a scene early on when Dr. Lam sounded a lot like Daniel Jackson... wonder where that came from.

Yeah, seeing as Teal'c has a implanted microchip to help with Beaming, wouldn't it have been wise to beam him onboard the Oddessy.(i know it's already been brought up but....)

What happened to the Oddessy being cloaked? The shot that started the scene clearly showed it.. Bad mistake.

Did Mitchell forget about his Sodan warrior training when he was fighting Teal'c ?

PG15
February 22nd, 2007, 09:52 PM
What happened to the Oddessy being cloaked? The shot that started the scene clearly showed it.. Bad mistake.

Not really, they could've figured out how to decloak it.


Did Mitchell forget about his Sodan warrior training when he was fighting Teal'c ?

Dude, this is Teal'c we're talking about here. No amount of Sodan training could've bested the T-man.

And I think Mitch did use his training, but then, come on. It's Teal'c. :tealc:

B O Y S C O U T
February 22nd, 2007, 11:06 PM
Another great SG1 episode, the best Teal'c centered episode we have had before. I love how dark Teal'c got, but the Arkad guy, what was with the voice lol :)

michael_wells
February 23rd, 2007, 12:29 AM
Great episode. I thought Teal'c was going to die several times, but like Bratac you just can't kill the guy.
I'm sure others will agree that its the most bloodiest episode yet.

jerkface
February 23rd, 2007, 03:15 AM
Well, just had time to watch this. And overall, an improvement in quality from the last few (which even in their better moments felt oddly placed in the more serious arcs finishing the season (and the show :eek:).

I think what I liked most was that they didn't pull all their punches, for once:

-Teal'c was (not uncharacteristically) vicious in his vengeance, and the audience had to see him do this.
-They didn't even make Archad entirely evil; it was nice to see someone finally bring up Teal'c's past violence as first prime.
-We finally heard from a non-Jaffa human who was less than sympathetic with them.
-Mitchell (and probably all of SG-1) were willing to lie to the SGC, IOA.

I feel like I'm whining a bit to critique after these improvements (especially in tone), but I will. ;)

-Landry. Does he have a character? We have seen previous background between him and Lam; I thought that was decent anyway. But I feel like we don't know much else about his relationship with SG-1, or the Jaffa, aside from his tendency to act as a conduit for whatever the IOA orders. So the argument between him and Teal'c didn't seem to mean much, however well-played it might have been.

-SG-1 lets Teal'c go alone...because? We get a throw-away line about him being unlikely to let them go along but really, that seems more like an excuse for the fact that the episode wouldn't work with them along. And they all follow along so easily with Landry/the IOA...because? Since when have they been virtually unquestioning of their orders?

-Teal'c's blowing up of the scar-faced man. I thought the violence in the rest of the episode wasn't gratuitous. We needed to see it to really realize how far Teal'c was willing, even wanted, to go. But the bomb implant, especially with Teal'c's one-liner, felt like it was there just for the "ain't he cool" reaction. And this was so jarring to me, since through the rest of the episode I thought his torturing and fighting people was supposed to be simultaneously understandable and offputting. I haven't seen Man on Fire, but I think knowing it was a movie homage while I watched it would have just added to the feeling that I was supposed to go "wow, he's so badass!" :sheppardanime31:

I'll give them a pass (for now) on the fact we didn't see the team react to all of Teal'c's viciousness in this episode. SG-1 wasn't on scene for his worst moments, and it's a lot easier to cover for him to a non-entity like Landry than to see it happen. But maybe they'll address this in the next few episodes...

Oh, and major points for keeping Bra'tac alive. I would have been more than unhappy to see him killed off too, since the most dangerous job in the Stargate universe seems to be that of a recurring character. :bratacanime01:

beale947
February 23rd, 2007, 01:15 PM
Am I one of the few British people who didn't know the Arkad was played by. I never have watched or will watch eastenders:P so to me he was just another actor.

It was a great episode though. Some funny lines. And we get to see pycho teal'c. A bit terminatorish :P

9/10

Cap116
February 23rd, 2007, 03:12 PM
I would have to say that episode should of been called one of two things, "Teal'C on Fire" or "Punisher." Either way, all that I can say is WOW, talk about hardcore.

the fifth man
February 23rd, 2007, 07:32 PM
I would have to say that episode should of been called one of two things, "Teal'C on Fire" or "Punisher." Either way, all that I can say is WOW, talk about hardcore.

Definitely hardcore. That was probably Teal'c at his darkest. But can anyone really blame him? He'd finally reached a breaking point. Yeah, a lot of it had to do with Arkad himself and Teal'c getting revenge on him.

But there was more going on. Teal'c fought for so many years to free his people from the control of the Goa'uld. To see them fighting amongst each other and murdering each other still, now that they are free, finally got to be too much for him.

Mitchell82
February 23rd, 2007, 10:19 PM
The whole thing played like a "Previously On Stargate SG-1" segment.

- Bra'tac and Teal'c are found gravely injured on another world. Done that.
- Teal'c gets angry and leaves the SGC to pursue his own mission. Done that.
- Teal'c is hell bent on on killing a guy who killed one of his loved ones. Done that.

I'm sure there were other things I can't think of right now.

Those things you didnt like are the things I found great about this ep. I have loved season 10 so far and have had great Teal'c episodes however we havent had teal'c go all "Rambo" on people in a long time. He was pissed off and went off to seek his revenge which hasnt been done in along time. This was a great ep and it just shows why I have watched Stargate for all these years and it just makes me even sadder that there are only 3 eps left.

D3K
February 24th, 2007, 12:43 AM
I was really surprised at the violence in this episode, it shocked me the amount of blood and gore.

I think the only thing that will ever kill Teal'c is old age...possibly. Well, not even that. Bra'tac is what now, 140? And he's still going strong, so Teal'c will be like the Yoda of Stargate eventually!

scarimor
February 24th, 2007, 01:38 AM
Wow, Teal'c really gave Cam a thrashing. I can't imagine him doing that to Jack, Daniel, Sam or Vala.

Hmm.

Now I'm reminded how much alt-Teal'c enjoyed beating on Cam in Ripple Effect. And how Teal'c didn't mind if he hit Cam in Arthur's Mantle.

Linzi
February 24th, 2007, 01:56 AM
I really enjoyed this. In parts of it, quite honestly, I was shocked at the violence. I like to be shocked.
Dan in Eastenders? I had no idea, because I don't watch the show. I just thought he was some British guy I'd not seen before. Was he convincing? In some parts, yes, in others.....hmmmm..
Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised by this. Good entertainment. :)

nekoi
February 24th, 2007, 03:08 AM
I usually try to read the WHOLE thread before replying to it (took me like 3 hours to read through the AT is an awesome person thread LOL), so I'm just going to say sorry to those who posted on pages 6 and 7, I just couldn't hold back my excitement long enough to read your posts... I must post now! XD; (I may go back and read them later, though)

Anyways... Talion. :tealc:

What can I say? Best Jaffa episode since season 8. To be honest, I was very much annoyed with the way Jaffa were turning into politicians in season 9; it was a large drop in the warrior aspect of them-- as lies and deceit still exsisted, it was totally different. I'm glad that this episode brought back a few old Jaffa traits that were more common between rival Jaffa clans in the first 7 seasons (that seemed to vanish in season 8, when Dakara was taken).
It was also nice to see Teal'c reacting on feelings, rather than just standing around and being intimidating-- I also believe this is the first episode inwhich Teal'c makes a bang (pardon the pun!) that shows us what really he was capable of as a first prime. I mean, if I were Apophis, I'd totally want this guy at my side! He's invincible!
The teamwork was great-- everyone seemed to interact well. My only complaint is that Vala didn't seem to mingle as much with anyone but Daniel; even though that's not really a big thing, seeing as she has had more relationship growth with other characters as of late, it would have been nice to see it continue.
Otherwise, everyone had their strengths that added to the story and all seemed to really express their opinions and what was on their minds. The relationship side story was very much appropriate with everyone worried about Teal'c and working together based on this mutual concern. I thought this was a good thing, since the story didn't only focus on one character and no one was left out. (Except for Jack... but that's kind of obvious.)

As for the secondary/guest characters:
Landry's anger was well played and really showed that he meant business. Up until now, I've viewed that character pretty much as filler. They needed a general, so they just got a good actor in. But this is the first episode inwhich I've really seen him stuck out as in charge. Usually it seems that he's only along for the ride. I hope to see more of this in the last few episodes and the movies.
Bra'tec's scenes were very emotional, and it really was a relief to see him express himself with concern to Teal'c. The characters have a history and it was nice to see their relationship recognized in such a touching way. I'm glad he didn't end up dead.
Dr. Lam seemed different. I don't know why they didn't bother to use her again up until now, but it was nice to see her again. She also seemed quite different-- less monotonous, really.
Arkad was a villain that really was hard to take seriously. I guess it's just because his actions and speech really didn't seem delusional (like many other Ori-affected people) and he didn't really take too much of a condesending tone.... but maybe that was just his accent? His costume was... different... but I honestly didn't care.
To be honest, I actually mistook him for Danny Barlow from Coronation Street.... OOPS! Wrong UK soap opera Dan! XD;(They do sorta look alike, though... don't they?)

I thought this episode was well deserved, so close to the end. It really did give tribute to Christopher Judge, and the events in this episode were just BRILLIANT! The violence, although a tad on gory side, was amazing; it kind of pushed the intensity up a notch. I was worried Teal'c wasn't going to get his own spotlight in season 10, but I'm very happy with this.

And unrelated to this episode, but honestly guys, give Bounty and The Bad Guys more credit-- it's good to see more episodic episodes rather than seeing the same old stuff dragged along for too long (different problems being addressed = good thing). But hey, to each their own. ;)

Sorry for the long post.

BC - 303
February 24th, 2007, 03:33 AM
Wow, Teal'c really gave Cam a thrashing. I can't imagine him doing that to Jack, Daniel, Sam or Vala.

Hmm.

Now I'm reminded how much alt-Teal'c enjoyed beating on Cam in Ripple Effect. And how Teal'c didn't mind if he hit Cam in Arthur's Mantle.

thats what i thought.
Teal'c been wanting to beet the cr*p out of Cam for a while. Obviously pissed that he replaced Jack.

jenks
February 24th, 2007, 07:56 AM
I don't get that feeling at all, I think the only reason they got into a fight is because Cam is the only one with the balls to actually fight him!

h4mx0r
February 24th, 2007, 12:20 PM
Oh man, the end of this episode was... well... THAT is how you open a can of whoopass.

Solanalos
February 24th, 2007, 01:45 PM
Pretty crazy episode. I thought for sure Bra'tac was going to die.

And Teal'c had this darker edge to him, I might have been imagining something but it felt a lot like the Ripple Effect* black uniform SG-1 Teal'c. Maybe that Teal'c had already gone through this stuff? :D Remember he seemed to enjoy beating up Mitchell haha.


*also on that note, I still keep expecting the "green wire" to come up

Matt G
February 24th, 2007, 03:58 PM
Right...

1. "I am leaving. You are going to explode". OK, Man on Fire! Who cares? :)

2. Would have probably recognised Craig Fairbrass's name from 'somewhere' had I been paying full attention to the credits. Not bothered about the idea of a cockney geezer Jaffa though. They've had blatent LA accents before.

3. Point taken about leaving Teal'c to go out on his own, I suspect the IOA had them over an offscreen barrel, possibly due to the events of The Shroud.

4. Not going to complain at another Lexia Doig appearance! ;)

Best ep since The Shroud, definately.

Gwin
February 25th, 2007, 02:57 PM
I don't get that feeling at all, I think the only reason they got into a fight is because Cam is the only one with the balls to actually fight him!
The only reason they got into a fight was, because Sam, Vala and Daniel and Reynold's Team were knocked out and he was the only one left.
Although I guess he was one of or the most qualified person to give it a try. But I'll never understand why he didn't use the Zat earlier. ;)


Wow, Teal'c really gave Cam a thrashing. I can't imagine him doing that to Jack, Daniel, Sam or Vala.
In this situation, seeking revenge no matter what it costs (as he warned the rest of SG-1)...there is no doubt he would have fought that way against anybody of SG-1 who would have come into his way.
Camron had to come into his way, he had direct orders from Landry, no help and no real possibilities. Teal'c wouldn't listen and didn't listen to anybody, the trap wouldn't work and Teal'c was very close to his destination.

Mandysg1
February 25th, 2007, 05:09 PM
After seeing this eposode, I still have the urge to yell...Go Teal'c Go!!!!

Finally we get a chance to see Chris Judge stretch is acting skills, after being wallpapered so much. Great job Chris :)

Madeleine
February 26th, 2007, 03:05 AM
Wow, Teal'c really gave Cam a thrashing. I can't imagine him doing that to Jack, Daniel, Sam or Vala.

Same here, though perhaps for different reasons. I don't think he'd have *needed* to thrash Daniel or Sam or Vala in order to get them out of his way. Rather like you or I could surely immobilise a violent six-year-old quickly and without hurting them, but if a large twelve-year-old were to physically threaten us we might need to be tough in return and it might take rather longer to restrain them. (I speak from experience as a former special needs teacher....)

Cam's Sodan stuff was useful enough only to ensure that Teal'c had to beat him up; without it Cam would have been as easy to subdue as I expect the others would have been.

scarimor
February 26th, 2007, 05:53 AM
Same here, though perhaps for different reasons. I don't think he'd have *needed* to thrash Daniel or Sam or Vala in order to get them out of his way. Rather like you or I could surely immobilise a violent six-year-old quickly and without hurting them, but if a large twelve-year-old were to physically threaten us we might need to be tough in return and it might take rather longer to restrain them. (I speak from experience as a former special needs teacher....)

Cam's Sodan stuff was useful enough only to ensure that Teal'c had to beat him up; without it Cam would have been as easy to subdue as I expect the others would have been.
You have a point, and on the who would win issue alone it may well account for Daniel (and might have accounted for Jack O'Neill). However I think there's another issue re. the women. Sam and Vala - especially Sam - are trained to fight, and moreover they are women who are trained to fighted mostly against male antagonists, and have more experience fighting against men than against fellow females. Women in that position don't try to fight men on the same terms that men do. They learn to use their opponent's greater size and weight against them. They learn to maximise the advantages of being smaller and lighter. They learn different techniques because they have to.

Cam tried to fight Teal'c man-to-man. He tried to match him to beat him. And he couldn't, because Teal'c is physically bigger and stronger. Sam, for example, wouldn't have even gone down that route. Almost all the male opponents she faces are bigger and stronger than her. E.g. she doesn't try to go upper-body-strength v. upper-body-strength, because she knows it's a non-starter. She wouldn't have tried to punch Teal'c in the way that we saw Cam doing to such little effect. She would have gone for other techniques.

I think the chances are strong that Teal'c would have beaten Sam if it came down to it, but I don't believe it's as simple as who would win anyway. I don't think Sam, Daniel, Jack or Vala would have put Teal'c in the position where he had to beat the crap out of them. Unlike Cam, by themselves I doubt they would obey the "stop him at all costs" which Landry ordered. Sam's and Daniel's history with Teal'c (and Jack's - that's why I mentioned him before) would make them find another route; perhaps even join him. And as for Vala - well no way would she go against Teal'c off her own bat just because the general ordered it. Similarly, I can't imagine Teal'c giving any of them the pasting that he was prepared to give Cameron.

I think it highlighted Cameron's position as somewhat isolated.

Madeleine
February 26th, 2007, 06:03 AM
I suspect that Jack would have gone the same way as Cam. Vala, you're right, would have declined to fight (I can just see her looking at me with a "fight HIM? Mads, are you insane?" expression on it at the very idea). Sam might have come up with some sort of plan, though it'd have had to be good to take Teal'c in. And Daniel would have stood there and said to Teal'c, "look, we both know you aren't going to hit me, so -"
... before a punch to the chin knocked him out ;)

Zelda
February 26th, 2007, 06:17 AM
Wow, Teal'c really gave Cam a thrashing. I can't imagine him doing that to Jack, Daniel, Sam or Vala.

Hmm.

Now I'm reminded how much alt-Teal'c enjoyed beating on Cam in Ripple Effect. And how Teal'c didn't mind if he hit Cam in Arthur's Mantle.

This show is always so painfully predictable. It's been a running gag that Teal'c beats up on Mitchell. I guess it's beyond the writers imagining to come up with something original and compelling like Teal'c knocks Daniel unconscious -- just for purely dramatic effect.

If Mitchell had done the reasonable thing like drop Teal'c with a zat blast, well, then we would all have missed the ensuing moments of manly fisticuffs and the even more compelling moments of the stick fighting. :rolleyes:

All of that aside, at what point did Teal'c make the leap from invincible to immortal? Without even a tape worm to fall back on? Teal'c is so severly injured in the bombing incident that he spends some time in hospital and then leaves to seek revenge. The fight with Mitchell has no effect (so much for the "legendary" Sodan fighting technique -- which meant, of course, that the premise of that episode was total balogna). And then, Teal'c takes not one but two blasts from a staff weapon that leave noticeable large black holes in his armor, and proceeds to get skewered clean through his body with a sword of unusual size whereupon he just pulls the blade from his body, gets up, walks over to the chief villain and proceeds to skewer him in a frenzy of tit-for-tat. And Teal'c lives to fight another day? hmmm. OK. :rolleyes:

There were a couple of things I liked about the episode --

That some of the Jaffa societies recently freed from one oppressor opted to accept another. I liked that as a political denouement.

Teal'c being poked with the morality stick -- anonymous villain #2 -- I won't help you; you enslaved my people for generations. Anonymous villain (apparently a resident of the British part of Jaffa land) -- you bombed my village and murdered my family. But Teal'c pressed on anyway -- I mean his need for revenge was apparently stronger then those of his victims. Right. :)

scarimor
February 26th, 2007, 06:32 AM
This show is always so painfully predictable. It's been a running gag that Teal'c beats up on Mitchell. I guess it's beyond the writers imagining to come up with something original and compelling like Teal'c knocks Daniel unconscious -- just for purely dramatic effect.
Cameron is in serious danger of becoming the butt of all physical jokes. I think we're already there. It's not just violence - it somehow wouldn't have been so.. er... acceptable funny and amusing? ... if the team had found Sam handcuffed to a bed without her pants in Memento Mori. Attractive, certainly, but within the comfort zone?

Smacking Cam around or losing his clothing (it happened in Ripple Effect too) is getting a bit obvious.

Zelda
February 26th, 2007, 09:34 AM
Cameron is in serious danger of becoming the butt of all physical jokes. I think we're already there. It's not just violence - it somehow wouldn't have been so.. er... acceptable funny and amusing? ... if the team had found Sam handcuffed to a bed without her pants in Memento Mori. Attractive, certainly, but within the comfort zone?

Smacking Cam around or losing his clothing (it happened in Ripple Effect too) is getting a bit obvious.

Yeah, it is a theme, kind of like Teal'c being tortured every 3rd or 4th episode.

erm, well, no matter -- the series has semi-died and gone to limbo.

Why? Do you think anyone would infer there was something sexual going on between Sam and Vala? And, if they did, who cares? In another storyline, Daniel got to kiss both Adria and her mother -- which is a bit more outre.

Cam without is clothes always makes an episode worth watching, even when nothing else does. IMO. ;)

That would have been a complete hoot if Sam had indeed popped those wheelies, gotten shot and tied to a bed in her underwear (Momento Mori)! If I remember right, Sam was wearing a pink lace bra in Rodney's fantasy -- and she looked mighty fine! Let's face it, both Sam and Cam look great in just their underwear. And, so does Vala, come to think of it. Maybe the writers can build one of the movies around a circumstance that we get to see all the cast in their underwear all at the same time. hmm Is it the first or second movie thathas the team marooned onboard a ship while trapped in a time-dilation field for 50 years? Now, that situation presents plenty of possibilites for underwear. Unfortunately, Sam is probably wearing military issue given the circumstance -- nuts! Oh well, throw lots of sweat on all of the cast and I'll be happy. :cool:

Anyway since we've segued off topic to other episode highlights -- I am grateful that the name of Cam's high school crush was not Pam. I was shocked -- Ami doesn't rhyme with Cam, Sam, or Lam. What are they thinking?:beckettanime14: :mckayanime09: :zelenka25: :)

Mandysg1
February 26th, 2007, 09:44 AM
Cameron is in serious danger of becoming the butt of all physical jokes. I think we're already there. It's not just violence - it somehow wouldn't have been so.. er... acceptable funny and amusing? ... if the team had found Sam handcuffed to a bed without her pants in Memento Mori. Attractive, certainly, but within the comfort zone?

Smacking Cam around or losing his clothing (it happened in Ripple Effect too) is getting a bit obvious.

Hate to say it scari, but I think he already is :mckay: iirc every time he uses his Sodan fighting skills, he loses...you'd think maybe he'd give up on that by now. I also think Cam's problem is he rushes into situations "gung ho" without thinking. I think both Sam and Daniel would use their years of friendship to try and talk to Teal'c, instead of going on the "attack first, ask questions later" route. They may not have been successful, but then niether was Cam in his approach.

Zelda
February 26th, 2007, 10:36 AM
Hate to say it scari, but I think he already is :mckay: iirc every time he uses his Sodan fighting skills, he loses...you'd think maybe he'd give up on that by now. I also think Cam's problem is he rushes into situations "gung ho" without thinking. I think both Sam and Daniel would use their years of friendship to try and talk to Teal'c, instead of going on the "attack first, ask questions later" route. They may not have been successful, but then niether was Cam in his approach.

As it turns out, the Sodan episode(s) were rather pointless, except for the cloaking device leading to other episodes. Mitchell took down the Sodan warrior before the "lessons" anyway.

Hmmn. That's an interesting thought. What I remember is the "team" being under orders to retrieve Teal'c at any cost. Weren't they all deployed in the hope of trapping Teal'c and disabling him? As far as I could tell, Teal'c wasn't interested in "talking" to his dear, long-time "friends" since he took the opportunity to use an alien device that knocked Sam, Daniel, and Vala unconscious -- maybe that's not what happened and I'm misremembering??? Or not. Mitchell got the drop on Teal'c, but, the writers like the Teal'c-mops-floor-with-Mitchell concept so well, they rarely pass an opportunity to use it. And, from what I've read, Gatefans just love it! Squeee! And, everyone knows, manly fisticuffs trump "talking" every time.

Where exactly in this episode did Mitchell rush in, go "gung ho" and not think about what he was doing?

scarimor
February 26th, 2007, 11:10 AM
Yeah, it is a theme, kind of like Teal'c being tortured every 3rd or 4th episode.
Indeed :tealc44:


Why? Do you think anyone would infer there was something sexual going on between Sam and Vala?
Ooh, that wasn't what I was getting at, but now that you mention it... http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/scarimor/samvalaanim.gif

What I meant was that the "comfort zone" of acceptable physical humour butt seems very relaxed for Cameron, whereas I don't think the writers (hey, perhaps their "masters" in advertising) would want to risk it against the other characters, especially the women. I think the reason Teal'c ends up as the (non-comedy) torture punch bag can be found in this area as well. It's about gender/physique perspectives in popular culture.


And, if they did, who cares? In another storyline, Daniel got to kiss both Adria and her mother -- which is a bit more outre.
Uh-huh.

For a long time, Star Trek thought nothing of having humans having sex with aliens, provided those aliens were of the opposite sex, yet shied away from same-sex kissing. But the weirdness of xenobiology ought to have been a bigger hot potato than anything. It took them a long time to venture into America's dangerous homosexuality territory. Again - perspectives.


Cam without is clothes always makes an episode worth watching, even when nothing else does. IMO. ;)
It certainly helps :)


That would have been a complete hoot if Sam had indeed popped those wheelies, gotten shot and tied to a bed in her underwear (Momento Mori)! If I remember right, Sam was wearing a pink lace bra in Rodney's fantasy -- and she looked mighty fine! Let's face it, both Sam and Cam look great in just their underwear. And, so does Vala, come to think of it. Maybe the writers can build one of the movies around a circumstance that we get to see all the cast in their underwear all at the same time. hmm Is it the first or second movie thathas the team marooned onboard a ship while trapped in a time-dilation field for 50 years? Now, that situation presents plenty of possibilites for underwear. Unfortunately, Sam is probably wearing military issue given the circumstance -- nuts! Oh well, throw lots of sweat on all of the cast and I'll be happy. :cool:
We can dream :)


Anyway since we've segued off topic to other episode highlights -- I am grateful that the name of Cam's high school crush was not Pam. I was shocked -- Ami doesn't rhyme with Cam, Sam, or Lam. What are they thinking?:beckettanime14: :mckayanime09: :zelenka25: :)
LOL!


Hate to say it scari, but I think he already is :mckay: iirc every time he uses his Sodan fighting skills, he loses...you'd think maybe he'd give up on that by now.
He didn't just lose, he was humiliated :( It was such a one-sided fight. You know, there are a lot of actors used to the heroic "alpha male" role who would not be willing to participate in that way. Their egos would get in the way. BB deserves a lot of credit.

Gwin
February 26th, 2007, 12:52 PM
Hmmn. That's an interesting thought. What I remember is the "team" being under orders to retrieve Teal'c at any cost. Weren't they all deployed in the hope of trapping Teal'c and disabling him? As far as I could tell, Teal'c wasn't interested in "talking" to his dear, long-time "friends" since he took the opportunity to use an alien device that knocked Sam, Daniel, and Vala unconscious -- maybe that's not what happened and I'm misremembering??? Or not.
[...]
Where exactly in this episode did Mitchell rush in, go "gung ho" and not think about what he was doing?
Thank you :)


He didn't just lose, he was humiliated
Since Teal'c usually needs only one punsh to struck down an enemy, Mitchell gave him a pretty good fight. I mean, Teal'c has more than just a few years more practical training than Mitchell. ;)

My only problem with the scene is that there was no scene after it with Teal'c and Mitchell. It was a lost opportunity and I dare not to hope that it'll be mentioned ever again.

OrangeShipper
February 26th, 2007, 01:50 PM
I wasn't sure about this ep... To be honest, I've never been a great fan of Jaffa episodes. I don't know why, I just find them generally boring.. I'm sorry!!

There were some lovely moments (esp the end) with Tea'lc and Bra'tac. That was nice.

It kinda struck me as odd that Tea'lc was so "gung-ho", if that's the right term.. I don't know, it just didn't seem like him to leave, cut all ties with Earth and SG-1 just for a personal thing. I mean... Loads of Jaffa have been senselessly murdered before.. I know it was a terrorist thing at a peaceful summit, but still. and punching up Cam, I'm sure that was unnecessary!
Also, I have to say, I'm kinda fed up with T being tortured all the time now.. It's kinda getting old.. And as awesomely indestructible as he is, I did think the sword in the gut was a bit much.

I LOVED the "I am leaving. You are about to explode" bit!!!

Heehee. It was an ok episode... Just didn't cater for my preferences, that's all!

teal'c2006
February 26th, 2007, 07:27 PM
I loved the episode, it was very well written..

Andy1
February 27th, 2007, 04:33 AM
Ah, back to Teal'c's good old darkside. Most of the time he's a gentle giant but when his own people are threatened he turns incredibly brutal, I don't think I've ever seen him this crazy. Many people find the 'you are about to explode' line funny. Not me! I found it deeply disturbing more than anything else. Good episode though.

Also it's nice for Teal'c to get some proper acting in again. Too often he's left to make the occasional joke while spending the rest of the time getting tortured and saying 'indeed'. I know he got beaten up bad again in this episode (in fact he spent two periods of recovery in an infirmary bed in just this one episode!), but still he won in the end and played his part very well.

As much as I like all these storylines we really need to get right back to the Ori, not just mentioning them a little bit here and there. Don't think it's coming in the next episode according to the episode information on Sky TV Guide :( . Personally, I want another space battle, I know the Ori seem to kick butt every time when it comes to space combat but it does make for great viewing :D .

Naonak
February 27th, 2007, 10:08 AM
Damn. I think I would actually choose to meet an angry Jack Bauer in a dark alley, given a choice between him and angry Teal'c.

Another great episode. The show is really going out with a bang. Just like that guy with a bomb in his gut...

Gwin
February 27th, 2007, 01:10 PM
Now I'm reminded how much alt-Teal'c enjoyed beating on Cam in Ripple Effect.
If Teal'c would have beaten up alt-Cam and say that he gratified it..well, that would be another story, but since it was alt-Teal'c. And after rewatching Ripple Effect I don't wonder why alt-Teal'c doesn't lik alt-Cam. Ostensibley they seem very similar, but alt-Cam was more...hm, its very hard to describe (especially in a foreign language), but he had a way to say things with a sort of grim undertone that Cam would never use in this situations.

The scene in Arthur's Mantle..hm, I guess it was his way to tell Mitchell that he has to focus. :D Since Teal'c was about to search for a foe it was not the best time for a little chat. ;)

HVYFKNMTL
February 28th, 2007, 06:47 AM
most brutal teal'c kill ever...better final fight than the imhotep episode(can't remember the title)

.Ra.
February 28th, 2007, 11:34 AM
A totally pointless episode. The story is just a remake of several older episodes, the main character loses his mind and sets out for his bloody mission. I don't remember a more violent episode, violent in the most disgusting way. I see no special reason why it was necessary to kill Arkad in this bloody and painful way. He was not the worst and most brutal enemy that the earthlings encountered or something.
It's a shame the Jaffa storyline has been wrapped up in this lame manner. The Teal'c character deserved better. They brought him back to being the old ruthless First Prime.

jonno
March 1st, 2007, 06:05 PM
Klunky in places - really didn't like the Arkad character when he was speaking (though he was far more convincing as a physical opponant). And overall some of the main characters seemed slightly off.

BUT - huge kudos to Chris Judge, and another awesome performance. He has absolutely made Teal'c over these past few years. He used to be a character i ignored for the most part, and now ... he's my favourite. I am always utterly convinced by the performances. He's had far too little to do, but even when he's a minor character in the background of a scene the expressions etc always add something. And then he gets episodes like this, with Teal'c front and centre - and he pulls it off beautifully.

And because of that the episode was good. Like several recent episodes, overall writing has been clunky, but the sum total saved by one of the actor's performances.

In conclusion - a reasonably suitable round up to Teal'c's personal storyline ... particularly due to that final Bra'tac scene. That really wrapped up their story together - it was something we all knew from Season 1, but had to be said between the characters in the show. So, praise for not killing off Bra'tac as I feared, and for putting that last scene in. If we never see him again, his story has been concluded and rapped. Good job.

TwiceBorn
March 3rd, 2007, 06:23 PM
A totally pointless episode. The story is just a remake of several older episodes, the main character loses his mind and sets out for his bloody mission. I don't remember a more violent episode, violent in the most disgusting way. I see no special reason why it was necessary to kill Arkad in this bloody and painful way. He was not the worst and most brutal enemy that the earthlings encountered or something.
It's a shame the Jaffa storyline has been wrapped up in this lame manner. The Teal'c character deserved better. They brought him back to being the old ruthless First Prime.

I agree, not that i didn't like teal'c blowing up people ect., but this Arkad guy wasn't like an arch enemy, and filming the goryest seen of stargate ever was definatly wasted on him.
I understand the whole Jafa revenge thing, but they took it a bit far in this episode. They could of easily stoped teal'c if they wanted to, and the way he acted to the rest of the team made me upset with him.
If i was Dr. Lam i would refuse to deal with teal'c. He goes out and fights half to death, comes back and gets fixed up, and goes back and does it again. A body can only take so much! This episode was not thought out very well.
Wasn't terrible, but definatly wasn't great.

Quote of the ep: "Uh, help! Help, we need help in here!" :daniel:

andrewag
March 4th, 2007, 03:12 AM
This epsiode seemed quite cinematic and epic in the music and the shots. I really liked the style.

Story line was so so but i really liked how it presented on screen.

h4mx0r
March 9th, 2007, 07:16 AM
A totally pointless episode. The story is just a remake of several older episodes, the main character loses his mind and sets out for his bloody mission. I don't remember a more violent episode, violent in the most disgusting way. I see no special reason why it was necessary to kill Arkad in this bloody and painful way. He was not the worst and most brutal enemy that the earthlings encountered or something.
It's a shame the Jaffa storyline has been wrapped up in this lame manner. The Teal'c character deserved better. They brought him back to being the old ruthless First Prime.

Well Arkad did piss off Teal'c in the past a bit I think. Background story I suppose. (The whole responsible for mother's death, etc.)

Of course, maybe this was meant to show Teal'c darker side. Either way I thought it was a powerful episode :]

Gwin
March 19th, 2007, 12:42 AM
I have to admit that I was bored, so I counted how long the fight between Teal'c and Cam lastet.
Well, 46 seconds...not bad, not bad for someone fighting against a furious Jaffa who didn't really want to make it a long fight. ;) Although something like a minute or whatsoever would have sounded a little bit better. :cool:

angelfire east
April 2nd, 2007, 05:48 PM
This is a good episode, Teal'c went all hardcore black ops and was rather scary. I don't see how Teal'c 'you are going to expole(sp)' to that guy was funny. I didn't find that funny nor did I think it was meant to be a joke. Once Teal'c gets on this Jaffa revence(sp) on there no stopping or reasoning with him. I was so sad that he left term. I always wondered what happened to Teal'c mother, and thought it might have been something bad like this. Poor guy, both parents murdered. I'm glad we got to find out with the show ending show since I doubt the movies will go into his backstory a whole lot.

I love that Cockney accent:) The final battle between Arkad and Teal'c was as good as it was bloody.

For a while there I thought they really where going to kill Bra'tac off:bratacanime02: I'm so glad they didn't. The show is almost over so they could have.

The figth scene between Teal'c and Cameron was brilliant and I don't say that beucase I enjoyed seeing Cameron get beat up like some people. Becuase I really like Cameron and I like to see him fight. He's a good figther and he has trained hard. He put up a pretty good fight against Teal'c and actully hit him a few times. On a visual level the fight was great to look at, and had so much meaning. That's why I liked it. I knew Cameron wasn't going to win and I was pleased he lasted so long against Teal'c when he was in that state of mind.

I love that Cameron (and others) lied for Teal'c. That was a very powerful moment.

The last scene between Bra'tac and Teal'c was great, at long last Bra'Tac said those words to Teal'c he longed to hear. Well I did, it was always unspoken between them I still like to hear it. We saw pretty clearly that Teal'c thinks of Bra'tac as father figure.

dec55
May 13th, 2007, 12:30 AM
Glad to see Lexa back on the show.....also glad she will be in the movie
as well....wooohoo!

Ozzy O'NeiLL
May 31st, 2007, 04:16 AM
This is a good episode, Teal'c went all hardcore black ops and was rather scary. I don't see how Teal'c 'you are going to expole(sp)' to that guy was funny. I didn't find that funny nor did I think it was meant to be a joke. Once Teal'c gets on this Jaffa revence(sp) on there no stopping or reasoning with him. I was so sad that he left term. I always wondered what happened to Teal'c mother, and thought it might have been something bad like this. Poor guy, both parents murdered. I'm glad we got to find out with the show ending show since I doubt the movies will go into his backstory a whole lot.

I love that Cockney accent:) The final battle between Arkad and Teal'c was as good as it was bloody.

For a while there I thought they really where going to kill Bra'tac off:bratacanime02: I'm so glad they didn't. The show is almost over so they could have.

The figth scene between Teal'c and Cameron was brilliant and I don't say that beucase I enjoyed seeing Cameron get beat up like some people. Becuase I really like Cameron and I like to see him fight. He's a good figther and he has trained hard. He put up a pretty good fight against Teal'c and actully hit him a few times. On a visual level the fight was great to look at, and had so much meaning. That's why I liked it. I knew Cameron wasn't going to win and I was pleased he lasted so long against Teal'c when he was in that state of mind.

I love that Cameron (and others) lied for Teal'c. That was a very powerful moment.

The last scene between Bra'tac and Teal'c was great, at long last Bra'Tac said those words to Teal'c he longed to hear. Well I did, it was always unspoken between them I still like to hear it. We saw pretty clearly that Teal'c thinks of Bra'tac as father figure.

You've already said most of what I was going to say.

- This was THE Teal'c episode. He even showed more endurance and bravado than in Avatar, imo. He really was unstoppable.

- Fight with Cameron: very well done. It's something they've been playing with in several episodes, main characters turning evil. We've had Sam taken over by AI & Replicarter, Teal'c being brainwashed by Apophis, Daniel becoming power-hungry in Absolute Power,... Yes, this was different, but it did show that sometimes good guys have to fight good guys. This was even more interesting as neither had really been taken over by something evil, so it really was "friendly fire".

- It was very subtly done, but indeed everyone lied to get Teal'c and SG-1 out of trouble wrt the killing of Arkad.

- It was strange to have Arkad be this almost posh-talking Englishman. But he was a good actor --- and unlike the foolishly gloating Goa'uld he was actually cool and reserved, making him even more dangerous an opponent.

- Teal'c being like a son to Bra'tac: that's something I've been waiting for for quite some time. Sure, they've always made it clear they totally respect each other and all that, but that scene really topped it all off.

In conclusion: another great Teal'c episode, and episode in general. :tealc:

P-90_177
May 31st, 2007, 05:08 AM
This is a good episode, Teal'c went all hardcore black ops and was rather scary. I don't see how Teal'c 'you are going to expole(sp)' to that guy was funny. I didn't find that funny nor did I think it was meant to be a joke. Once Teal'c gets on this Jaffa revence(sp) on there no stopping or reasoning with him. I was so sad that he left term. I always wondered what happened to Teal'c mother, and thought it might have been something bad like this. Poor guy, both parents murdered. I'm glad we got to find out with the show ending show since I doubt the movies will go into his backstory a whole lot.

I love that Cockney accent:) The final battle between Arkad and Teal'c was as good as it was bloody.

For a while there I thought they really where going to kill Bra'tac off:bratacanime02: I'm so glad they didn't. The show is almost over so they could have.

The figth scene between Teal'c and Cameron was brilliant and I don't say that beucase I enjoyed seeing Cameron get beat up like some people. Becuase I really like Cameron and I like to see him fight. He's a good figther and he has trained hard. He put up a pretty good fight against Teal'c and actully hit him a few times. On a visual level the fight was great to look at, and had so much meaning. That's why I liked it. I knew Cameron wasn't going to win and I was pleased he lasted so long against Teal'c when he was in that state of mind.

I love that Cameron (and others) lied for Teal'c. That was a very powerful moment.

The last scene between Bra'tac and Teal'c was great, at long last Bra'Tac said those words to Teal'c he longed to hear. Well I did, it was always unspoken between them I still like to hear it. We saw pretty clearly that Teal'c thinks of Bra'tac as father figure.

cockney accent??? he was australian.

jenks
May 31st, 2007, 06:23 AM
He doesn't sound very Australian in Eastenders! :p

Sprinkles
May 31st, 2007, 06:56 AM
cockney accent??? he was australian.

Craig Fairbrass (who plays Arkhad) was born in Stepney, London, England. He has cockney accent although I think he was trying to make it sound abit posh in this episode.

JackBauer2007
May 31st, 2007, 07:06 AM
I didnt like the plot. It was forced with no backstory other than the spew they gave us in the beginning. I would have prefered they dig up some old enemy SG-1 fought years ago instead of creating this whole new character. i dont like how, and this is a recurring problem especially this season, the characters have no consequences for their actions. Teal'c assaults his own guys and next episode hes back at work. Jackson steals the Odysey and somewhat abducts a superior officer, and hes back at work the next episode.
I know theres not a lot of time left and not a lot of episodes but at least hold true to some sort of reality.

the fifth man
May 31st, 2007, 06:55 PM
This was, IMO, one of Teal'c's finest episodes ever on SG-1. And it is going to be awesome to see it on TV tomorrow night. I can't wait.

Krisz
May 31st, 2007, 11:17 PM
Craig Fairbrass (who plays Arkhad) was born in Stepney, London, England. He has cockney accent although I think he was trying to make it sound abit posh in this episode.

Really???! he really did sound Australian (although I did get confused with hearing him lapse into a cockney accent on occasion!) It's quite weird how having lived in Vancouver for almost two years I'm beginning to have trouble recognising various regional British accents since I don't hear them on a regular basis any more. Some people here on occasion think I'm Australian (I was born and lived in south London!), although most do know my accent is British. So I can understand the confusion about this guy's accent! :D

As for the episode, I groaned inwardly when I thought it was another 'Jaffa revenge thing'!! It turned out better than I thought. It gave more insight into what was happening to the scattered Jafar after Dakara and I for one found it interesting.

The stresses of the Ori threat are coming out and it shows how easily things can change. We were really reminded of what Teal'c is all about here again. His ulitmate goal is to unite the Jaffa as a free race, free from all influences. Working with the Tau'ri was necessary for the destruction of the Goa'uld. If the Tau'ri aren't with him with fighting any other threats to his idea of Jaffa freedom he will go and find another way. I think this aspect of his almost fanatical belief in 'freedom for all Jaffa' has been forgotten and showed him to be as formidable as the Ori in reminding others of what is of paramount importance to him.

The element of uncertainty is really being stepped up in how cracks are appearing in what we've seen as a pretty solid relationship for ten years.

This emphasises the worry and despair that underlies the bravado of the SGC in the face of the Ori threat. The fragmented moments that the last few episodes have been I think have only served to show this, these people are trying to keep on doing what they've been doing despite it not working as well as it did in the past. The Ori are still there even after a few 'victories'.

Teal'c really was the star in this episode and it made it the most enjoyable Jaffa/Teal'c centric episode of all for me.

Boxytheboxed
June 1st, 2007, 05:51 PM
fraking awesome is whaticall it

Xicer
June 1st, 2007, 06:15 PM
This episode reminded me a lot about Man on Fire...

the fifth man
June 1st, 2007, 07:23 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. This episode was, IMO, probably the best Teal'c centric episode ever. One I can watch over and over again.

Jackie
June 1st, 2007, 07:53 PM
I didnt like the plot. It was forced with no backstory other than the spew they gave us in the beginning. I would have prefered they dig up some old enemy SG-1 fought years ago instead of creating this whole new character. i dont like how, and this is a recurring problem especially this season, the characters have no consequences for their actions. Teal'c assaults his own guys and next episode hes back at work. Jackson steals the Odysey and somewhat abducts a superior officer, and hes back at work the next episode.
I know theres not a lot of time left and not a lot of episodes but at least hold true to some sort of reality.

Absolutely agree. Though CJ did a great job acting the general plot made him OOC. Teal'c avenging his mother. After 10 years? Why even bother? Then Teal'c doubted it was him that killed her anyways.

The fight scene, well done for fight between Mitchell and Teal'c. But I just couldn't help but wounder what would have happened if Jack was the one facing him.

Blowing his enemy up after torturing him? Teal'c had been in with SG-1 long enough to know that those actions would be concidered war crimes and would not be tolerated.

SG-1 always took the higher road. Why should he revert to the old ways after he had done so much to over come the crimes of his past?

Pharaoh Atem
June 1st, 2007, 08:00 PM
and the moral of the story is kids ......DON'T PISS TEAL'C OFF...if you value your life

the fifth man
June 1st, 2007, 08:02 PM
and the moral of the story is kids ......DON'T PISS TEAL'C OFF

That's for damn sure!:) If you do, he could blow you up, or impale you and then put a sword in you.

Xicer
June 1st, 2007, 08:41 PM
lol the part where he blows up that guy is why this episode reminds me so much of Man on Fire.

Orion's Star
June 1st, 2007, 09:16 PM
This episode was just ridiculous. And I don't mean ridiculous in the sense that it was way cool, but ridiculous in the sense that it was just ridiculous. Teal'c gets shot with multiple staff blasts, has at least half a sword impaled into the middle of his chest, and he survives? Then he kicks Arkad like literally over 10 feet so he can get impaled on those oh so convenient spikes. That was just plain stupid. Mitchell knows that Teal'c won't stop on his revenge kick so when he gets the drop on him he doesn't automatically zat Teal'c? That was just stupid too.

Also, it was obvious that we were supposed to view Arkad as the bad guy, but until the last few seconds before he died, he hadn't done anything really to indicate that he deserved Teal'c coming after him. All I saw was Teal'c acting blindly crazy and torturing people. Wasn't exactly the kind of Teal'c I have come to like over the last 10 years.

While the action scenes were pretty good and it's nice to see Teal'c get some screentime and to see him act like the former badass he used to be, this episode was kind of lame.

But at least Dr. Lam came back.

majorsal
June 1st, 2007, 09:37 PM
the episode was alright. it wasn't as violent as i thought it would be, until... i did NOT like that fight between teal'c and the bad jaffa guy. oh, boy, was my mom ticked too (cowers from mom's wrath). just waaaaaaaay too violent there at the end. but the scene between teal'c and bratac was wonderful.




sally :)

jckfan55
June 2nd, 2007, 05:33 AM
It was good to see Teal'c with something to do after a bunch of episodes this season where he didn't do much (except maybe get tortured :( ).

I do wish his long time team members Carter & Daniel had had a scene with him, rather than just "reporting" on their conversation.

I was very happy that Bra'tac lived. whew! I thought this revenge thing about Teal'c's mother was a bit out of left field. I thought being responsible for killing Bra'tac (for all Teal'c knew he was as good as dead) would have been motivation enough for vengeance.

I thought the wounds in the last fight were too extreme for even Teal'c to survive. I mean, come on.

gatechick
June 2nd, 2007, 07:50 AM
I was very dissappointed in this episode. After all these years, of watching the camraderie between the team, even when they disagreed, it was dissappointing to see Teal'c react so violently towards his teammates, and to see and feel his team seem to be so unpassionate about it. I have struggled with Stargate for the last 2 years. I continue to watch out of loyalty, despite not caring too much for Seaons 9 & 10. I loved seeing an epsiode centered around Teal'c, but it was much too violent for my tastes. But it was the way the team reacted toward one another that just turned me off. I guess I have been spoiled by O'Neill's halfhearted attempts at stopping Teal'c when he goes off on his Jaffa revenge.

betjam
June 2nd, 2007, 10:55 AM
Never felt like Earth was in danger, as I did in early shows. Didn't I read once that they didn't like to show violence and death on show?

Whatever happened to a secondary story line? Rest of team seemed to be just waiting to be given something to do. Carter jumped to her feet at the thought of an assignment.

I usually love the Teal'c eps. But I have grown tired of the beating and scars, that always heal completely. Towards the end, I was reminded of the knight in Holy Grail and expected T to say, "I'm not dead yet!"

acdj31
June 2nd, 2007, 05:14 PM
I did like this ep. I like a good Teal'c ep but this was way over the top.
:comeon:

When I saw Bratac in the bed I was sceaming at my TV going "NOOOOO!!!! don't you dare kill him off like you do with ever other recurring character" :bratacanime01:


The fight scene, well done for fight between Mitchell and Teal'c. But I just couldn't help but wounder what would have happened if Jack was the one facing him.

Blowing his enemy up after torturing him? Teal'c had been in with SG-1 long enough to know that those actions would be concidered war crimes and would not be tolerated.

SG-1 always took the higher road. Why should he revert to the old ways after he had done so much to over come the crimes of his past?

I was thinking the same thing What Would Jack Do? I don't think he would fight Teal'c but do something else.
:jack_new_anime04: :tealcanime23:
:tealcanime44: :tealcanime22: :tealc39: :tealcanime51: :tealc44:

majorsal
June 2nd, 2007, 05:37 PM
I guess I have been spoiled by O'Neill's halfhearted attempts at stopping Teal'c when he goes off on his Jaffa revenge.

a scene immediately popped into my head of teal'c strangling a tok'ra and jack calmly saying, 'teal'c, stop'. and i mean calm. :p it was sam giving him 'that' look that made him try again with some conviction. :p

(i can't remember the name of this ep, but i think it was in season 6. something about the tok'ra queen (creature) being kept alive and living in a tank?)

sorry for the off topic.




sally :)

the fifth man
June 2nd, 2007, 07:32 PM
a scene immediately popped into my head of teal'c strangling a tok'ra and jack calmly saying, 'teal'c, stop'. and i mean calm. :p it was sam giving him 'that' look that made him try again with some conviction. :p

(i can't remember the name of this ep, but i think it was in season 6. something about the tok'ra queen (creature) being kept alive and living in a tank?)

sorry for the off topic.




sally :)

That was Season 6's "Allegiance". It wasn't the Tok'ra queen one though. It was the ep before that one, and took place on the Alpha Site.

dec55
June 2nd, 2007, 11:49 PM
Lexa Doig back on the show!!! Wooohooo!! Wished they had used her more
in the last season....Good to see Lam on screen!! Made my night!!! :D

MasySyma
June 3rd, 2007, 07:49 AM
I agree that the episode was too over the top.

The first twenty minutes were dreadful as Teal'c goes rouge and leaves the SGC for time number four million and four. How many times do we have to do this?

However, things improved when he started blowing people up instead of merely threatening them.

I liked the Jaffa/Ori plot, but I thought the writers promised us Teal'c character development that wasn't Jaffa related. I'm not seeing it.

The final fight was way too much. Teal'c no longer has "junior," and he wasn't fully healled, so with that level of damage--he should be dead or out of commision for the rest of the season.

I like Teal'c, but I didn't like the assumption that critically wounded major characters heal rapidly when we've seen characters miss episodes before thanks to battle injuries.

The episode was ok but not stellar: 6/10.

Exiled Master
June 3rd, 2007, 01:35 PM
:tealc: was totally BA in this episode.
Why are you walking away?
:tealc::Because you are about to explode.

It was like he had gone all 24 or something.

garhkal
June 3rd, 2007, 02:15 PM
When I saw Bratac in the bed I was sceaming at my TV going "NOOOOO!!!! don't you dare kill him off like you do with ever other recurring character"

Why not. Britak has had a very long life, and in several eps has mentioned he does not know how much longer he has... Heck nearly every one of his dreams has come to pass... so why would he not be a prime candidate to pass on..

jckfan55
June 3rd, 2007, 03:01 PM
Whatever happened to a secondary story line? Rest of team seemed to be just waiting to be given something to do. Good point.


Carter jumped to her feet at the thought of an assignment.

Maybe figuratively, but officers always have to stand up when the General does.

Krisz
June 3rd, 2007, 10:54 PM
Towards the end, I was reminded of the knight in Holy Grail and expected T to say, "I'm not dead yet!"

LOL! It was a bit like that with all the blood everywhere!!!

Margaret
June 4th, 2007, 10:23 AM
This episode reminded me a lot about Man on Fire...

I saw Man on Fire.

This is a perversion of Man on Fire.

The author should be burned in effigy.

Pharaoh Atem
June 4th, 2007, 11:18 AM
lol the part where he blows up that guy is why this episode reminds me so much of Man on Fire.

I'm surprised there went that far and putting the sword in that guys chest ....very violent

angelfire east
June 4th, 2007, 12:48 PM
Really???! he really did sound Australian (although I did get confused with hearing him lapse into a cockney accent on occasion!) It's quite weird how having lived in Vancouver for almost two years I'm beginning to have trouble recognising various regional British accents since I don't hear them on a regular basis any more. Some people here on occasion think I'm Australian (I was born and lived in south London!), although most do know my accent is British. So I can understand the confusion about this guy's accent! :D

The same thing happens to my father, he was born in London but mored to Canada when he was child, he's lost most of his accent now. People sometimes think he's from Australian becuase of his accent lol

Trek_Girl42
June 5th, 2007, 12:36 AM
I'm surprised there went that far and putting the sword in that guys chest ....very violent
I agree- but it was a well-chosen action for Teal'c to take, I think this episode had some of the best character development and insight of the entire series, I was extremely impressed with this episode on so many levels. I am so glad that they didn't hold anything back- it's a wonderful last ep dedicated to Teal'c, and it's easily my favourite Teal'c episode of the series. :)

the fifth man
June 5th, 2007, 08:21 PM
I agree- but it was a well-chosen action for Teal'c to take, I think this episode had some of the best character development and insight of the entire series, I was extremely impressed with this episode on so many levels. I am so glad that they didn't hold anything back- it's a wonderful last ep dedicated to Teal'c, and it's easily my favourite Teal'c episode of the series. :)

I know it is definitely my favorite Teal'c episode as well. I thought the entire episode was well done.

Dark Falcon
June 5th, 2007, 09:53 PM
I'm surprised there went that far and putting the sword in that guys chest ....very violent

I agree. This is probably one of the most violent SG-1 episodes ever.

CJ's acting for Teal'c was awesome in this episode. Especially when he pulled the sword out of his own chest. Good acting there.

petemoretti
June 6th, 2007, 08:20 AM
After all this praising of this episode I finally sat down and watched it ! WTF ? Did TPTB forget that Teal'c doesn't have a symbionte anymore ???

PG15
June 6th, 2007, 02:26 PM
What do you mean?

Trek_Girl42
June 6th, 2007, 11:30 PM
After all this praising of this episode I finally sat down and watched it ! WTF ? Did TPTB forget that Teal'c doesn't have a symbionte anymore ???
There was never any mention of Teal'c having a symbiote. The one they showed belonged to the other Jaffa who Teal'c.....neutralized.

Skydiver
June 7th, 2007, 01:39 PM
Let's lose the name calling please...even if it's in code

jckfan55
June 7th, 2007, 01:43 PM
I just figured they'd have to dose him up with lots of extra tretonin to help him recover. At least without the symbiote a stab to the gut wasn't instantly fatal. Still, it did seem a bit much (even for Teal'c) to survive.

Royalflush
June 11th, 2007, 06:32 PM
Overall a decent episode. It was fun.

My major problems were, the backstory wasn't believable. If Teal'c felt like this he'd have already done something about it.

The backstory for Teal'c felt like it was pulled out of someone's ass just for this episode and that it will not have relevance to anything else.

Also, they're trying to stop Teal'c, their friend, so they only bring guns?!?!? Doesn't anybody remember that we have zats???


Best line - "I am leaving. You are about to explode." :p :tealc:

placid
July 22nd, 2007, 11:37 AM
I found the scene where Teal'c and Mitchell fight to be one of the most unsettling I can recall. If I hadn't been aware that there were only a couple of episodes left, I would've been wondering if this team could possibly continue or if more cast changes were on the table.

Randy_Watson
July 29th, 2007, 05:38 PM
Also, they're trying to stop Teal'c, their friend, so they only bring guns?!?!? Doesn't anybody remember that we have zats???


Best line - "I am leaving. You are about to explode." :p :tealc:


Yeah, that was hilarious.


As to the previous point, Mitchell did pull out his zat after Tealc knocked his gun away. I didn't like seeing them fight, it just seemed wrong.

Naonak
August 15th, 2007, 11:36 AM
Well, that episode's not quite the same in the middle of the afternoon. Lots of editing towards the end... ;)

Two_L's
November 1st, 2007, 06:18 AM
I loved it, especially Teal'c's line
I am leaving, you are going to explode.

Best line in the episode. :p


I loved the violence in this episode. For once they didn't shy away from it. It was pretty hardcore for Stargate.

I'm pretty sure this was one of the most violent episodes of Stargate they've made. Not that that's a bad thing, the fight scenes were amazing to watch and it was good to actually see everything that happened rather than the camera cutting away.


I was extremely impressed with this episode on so many levels. I am so glad that they didn't hold anything back- it's a wonderful last ep dedicated to Teal'c, and it's easily my favourite Teal'c episode of the series. :)

This is my favourite Teal'c episode too and probably one of my favorite's from the season. CJ's acting in this was great! Also loved the last lines from Bra'tac to Teal'c about him being like a son and that he was proud of him, that was a really nice touch. (Got me a bit teary actually, hehehe :o)

John W
December 11th, 2007, 01:31 PM
I've just seen this episode on DVD. My main impression of the episode was that it was a nice little excursion into what I'd call "Old-School Stargate". We had loads of Jaffa, staff-blasts, death-gliders, a Pyramid, a mention of Apophis, a big-bad Jaffa First Prime, Bra'tac and Teal'c having a fight to the death. I loved it and it made me feel nostalgic, especially since we're so close to the end of the entire series now.

Firstly, as I've read at least one person say in this thread, I couldn't believe it when I saw that guy from Eastenders playing the main baddie. Never in my wildest dreams would I have expected someone from that show to turn up in this one! Let me make one thing clear, I am not a fan of Eastenders. But being from England myself, I'm very much familiar with it. It seemed somewhat funny and weird to have a Jaffa with a London accent like that. LOL! However, I will say that towards the end, I think both that and the actor himself suited the role because it gave the character an added level of "hardness", if you know what I mean (if you don't know what I mean, just imagine someone like Ray Winstone or Vinnie Jones in the role).

It's always great to see Bra'tac. As countless people have said over the years, Tony Amendola is just such an awesome actor that you just can't get enough of. I'd even go so far as to say he's the single best guest actor of the entire series! Considering how this is one of the last episodes of the entire series, I was expecting them to kill Bra'tac off. Thankfully, they didn't though. Instead, we finally got what we've been waiting 10 years for, Bra'tac telling Teal'c that he's like the son he's never had. I don't know about everyone else but this was incredibly moving and you really get the sense he's been waiting all this time to tell him. I'm glad he's finally come out and said it. If this is the last time we see the character, I'm really going to miss him. BTW, did anyone else have flashbacks to "The Changeling" when Bra'tac was by Teal'c's bedside in that robe at the end of the episode? Talk about spooky! LOL!

One thing that really made me think about this episode was how I don't think we've ever heard any mention of Teal'c's mother before in any episode. I know there was that whole thing about his father and how Cronus killed him. But this is the first time we've had anything about his mother.

Anyway, overall a good episode. It was also a surprise to see Dr. Lam making a return to the series, albeit rather late in the season (Despite many mentions of her earlier in the season, I didn't think she was going to appear this year).

flynn1959
December 12th, 2007, 02:21 PM
It's always good to see a Teal'c heavy episode, even one as violent as this was. I must admit I didn't let my youngest watch it.

John W
December 13th, 2007, 12:24 PM
Yeah, even I was surprised at how gory and violent things got towards the end. Still, I can't blame the show's production staff if they're thinking, "Forget the censors, we've been cancelled so we'll do whatever we want now!" LOL!

captain jake
December 13th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Yeah, even I was surprised at how gory and violent things got towards the end. Still, I can't blame the show's production staff if they're thinking, "Forget the censors, we've been cancelled so we'll do whatever we want now!" LOL!

Haha, Stargate is known for their family friendly viewing. Nothing they did was in any way against Sci-Fi's standards/ I mean have you watched Battlestar Galactica? That is a ton more gory than this episode, well accept for the sword through his entire chest and torso. (That was pretty gory haha)

randomguy
March 27th, 2008, 07:52 PM
"youve become old and slow"

ya that and been hit by 3 or 4 staff blasts...

David Webb
September 15th, 2008, 04:17 AM
Jack would've never punched/attacked T like Cam did. <_<

silly sally
September 15th, 2008, 11:07 AM
Jack would've never punched/attacked T like Cam did. <_<

Yeah, he's smarter than that...

Crazedwraith
December 4th, 2008, 07:58 AM
This episode was terrible.

We learned in season 3 that Cronus killed Teal'c's father and that was a big deal but as Jack said; "Why doesn't he tell us these things?" Seven (closer to eight really early season 3/late season 10) we learn he has another big personal grudge with some-one who killed his mother but we've never heard of before.

He was a rival first prime who fought many battles with Teal'c and Bra'tac, but apparently he served a goa'uld we've never heard of. Certainly not a system lord. How come such a goa'uld stood against the might of Apophsis for so long?

This whole episode was dedicated to a 'Jaffa revenge thing.' Colour me unimpressed: Tanith, this guy ain't.

The worst thing was SG-1 trying to stop Teal'c. Neither he or they really showed much evidence of the team relationship we've had for ten years and nor did there seem to be any fallout from their confrontation; even from Mitchell, who lets faced it got the snot kicked out of him.

Rodney dex
December 4th, 2008, 08:32 AM
i lvoed this really like seeing a more dramatic and true cut harsh episode

Jumper_One
March 31st, 2009, 05:48 PM
Finally, sometime last week, some website put together a list of their favorite episode titles. Alas, Stargate failed to make the list. To rectify that oversight, I’ve decided to put together a list of My Top 10 Favorite Stargate Titles:

**snip**

6) Talion: Damian Kindler was always great at coming up with these obscure titles (see: Ethon). According to dictionary.cm: “A punishment identical to the offense, as the death penalty for murder.”. All well and good except that whenever someone mentioned this episode by name, I always assumed they were saying “Italian“, resulting in much confusion.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/march-31-2009-my-five-second-stint-as-a-camera-operator-the-kino-revealed-and-my-top-10-favorite-stargate-episode-titles/

Replicator Todd
October 27th, 2009, 12:58 AM
Ah, one last great Teal'c episode for SG1, and it goes out with an awesome and brutal yet satisfying fight scene in the end. The Jaffa were starting to become a forgotten enemy it seems, but they returned in the last stretch of the 10 fabulous years of SG1. Teal'c shows he still has a darker side and still cares for his people. The Ori sure has divided the Jaffa nation at this point.

asdf1239
April 19th, 2010, 01:05 AM
"i am leaving. you are about to explode."

best line ever

doesnt the plot remind you of the lion king

mrscopterdoc
May 17th, 2010, 02:42 PM
Not one of my faves but a good Teal'c eppy.

Elorendil
June 23rd, 2010, 07:46 PM
Holy cow. Someone remind me to never make Teal'c mad at me. :eek:

Seriously, though, I didn't really care for this episode. We have seen Teal'c on a Jaffa revenge mission before and this one was a bit over the top. Ruthless torture, blowing people up, etc. just for revenge? Not how I picture Teal'c. Yes, he is a complex guy, but this is definitely not a side of him that I like or that I feel was necessary to the story. I could have done without this ep.

maneth
February 7th, 2011, 11:08 AM
Indeed. It was a bit out of the blue, but the good thing was, no Priors! And one of the best Teal'c lines ever: "I am leaving. You are about to explode."

mathpiglet
May 23rd, 2012, 01:57 PM
Holy cow. Someone remind me to never make Teal'c mad at me. :eek:

Seriously, though, I didn't really care for this episode. We have seen Teal'c on a Jaffa revenge mission before and this one was a bit over the top. Ruthless torture, blowing people up, etc. just for revenge? Not how I picture Teal'c. Yes, he is a complex guy, but this is definitely not a side of him that I like or that I feel was necessary to the story. I could have done without this ep.

I agree.


Indeed. It was a bit out of the blue, but the good thing was, no Priors! And one of the best Teal'c lines ever: "I am leaving. You are about to explode."

Yes. Just about the only good thing about the episode.

Jae'a
May 23rd, 2012, 04:18 PM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/55705.html)

Loved it.
Another one glad they didn't kill off Bra'tac, here. (I know, shocker, right?) I know it wouldn't make much difference in some ways, since this was his last appearance anyway, but it's pretty cool to think that he would be still alive now (and, what, 148 years old?) if the Stargate 'verse was still around. :D

(Very) Long live Bra'tac! :bratac13:

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 23rd, 2012, 04:54 PM
2nd straight different kind of SG-1 episode. Last week, hostage-type episode and this week a 24-type episode (with the torture and stuff). With the exception of The Shroud and Quest Part 2, this was one of the episode episodes of the second half of Season 10. I give it a **1/2.
That was the darkest ending to the episode in franchise (I don't think SGU had an ending that dark). Arkad's actor kind of looked like Liam Neeson.

I thought the beginning and end of the episode were the strongest part.

Tomorrow, Fred Willard as Vala's dad.

Krisz
May 23rd, 2012, 07:12 PM
[snip]

As for the episode, I groaned inwardly when I thought it was another 'Jaffa revenge thing'!! It turned out better than I thought. It gave more insight into what was happening to the scattered Jaffa after Dakara and I for one found it interesting.

The stresses of the Ori threat are coming out and it shows how easily things can change. We were really reminded of what Teal'c is all about here again. His ulitmate goal is to unite the Jaffa as a free race, free from all influences. Working with the Tau'ri was necessary for the destruction of the Goa'uld. If the Tau'ri aren't with him with fighting any other threats to his idea of Jaffa freedom he will go and find another way. I think this aspect of his almost fanatical belief in 'freedom for all Jaffa' has been forgotten and showed him to be as formidable as the Ori in reminding others of what is of paramount importance to him.

The element of uncertainty is really being stepped up in how cracks are appearing in what we've seen as a pretty solid relationship for ten years.

This emphasises the worry and despair that underlies the bravado of the SGC in the face of the Ori threat. The fragmented moments that the last few episodes have been I think have only served to show this, these people are trying to keep on doing what they've been doing despite it not working as well as it did in the past. The Ori are still there even after a few 'victories'.

Teal'c really was the star in this episode and it made it the most enjoyable Jaffa/Teal'c centric episode of all for me.

Can't say anything different about this after re-watching it. Still a pretty solid Teal'c episode.

Lieutenant Sparrow
May 24th, 2012, 02:31 AM
I sure didn't like how T and Cam fought so easily. I sure felt that blow at the end of the fight. Ouch.

I'm leaving, you are about to explode. That sure is a great line.

Pretty gruesome ending with the sword.

I'm going to miss Bra'tac :bratacanime01:

Matt G
May 27th, 2012, 03:16 PM
Tuesday night...another ep of SG1...

1. Oh it was fun watching POd Teal'c again.

2. Forgot about Arkad trying to get the SGC onside.

3. SG1...vs Teal'c. Did Landry not realise how rediculous this was?

Still, very fun ep.

jelgate
May 31st, 2012, 06:52 PM
Haven't we done this episode already? I have lost track of how many times Teal'c has left SG1 in name of Jaffa honor or because he disagrees with the ways Taur do business. Seeing Teal'c going rogue is no big deal to me because it is not something that is completely new to me. Its been done before that Teal'c violence bored me. In addition I do not like how easy Teal'c took out the rest of SG1 so easily. It was unrealastic to me to see him not even struggle in the battle with Mitchell. It felt too one sided to me. The battle with Arkad was ridicilous to me as well. Teal'c is bleeding and near death and yet he still is able to have his impaled. Just a poorly executed and overdone episode

mrscopterdoc
June 13th, 2012, 12:05 PM
Yeah, even I was surprised at how gory and violent things got towards the end. Still, I can't blame the show's production staff if they're thinking, "Forget the censors, we've been cancelled so we'll do whatever we want now!" LOL!
:lol:

Cluas
February 18th, 2013, 04:04 PM
This is one of the episodes, that just didn't work for me. Teal'c vs SG1?

:tealc34:"You're about to explode", that made me laugh though.

Mitchell should have been smart enough not to hit Teal'c, and why didn't he just zat him?
The ending was average. It was good to see Bra'tec survive.

The actors and writers knew it was the last season, so the air went out of the balloon I guess.

I'm gonna watch the last three episodes now, with that in mind ...

enibas5
July 30th, 2015, 04:04 PM
Yeah, exactly what I needed to find a closure to the show. Another out-of-mind revenge story for Teal'c, only way more brutal and bloodier than the previous ones. If that had been the first Stargate Ep. I saw, I would never have watched another episode.
It is a pathetic display for the franchise to deliver such ep. while the show is running out. They had confined themselves to certain standards and lines they would not cross over a period of 10 years. Doing so in the end is a betrayal of their own work and achievement.

Anja
October 23rd, 2015, 07:22 AM
Very much violence, maybe the characters had to act brutally because the end of the show was near and - well - some action never hurts. There are movies with more brutality and some lines are very funny.

SG1 against Teal'c - that was the order but some regulations were bent in the end.
Good-bye Bra'tac - you were/are a nice fella!! :cool:

altair
October 31st, 2018, 01:34 PM
Watching Sg-1, waiting for the countdown...I'm ready to see it come to an end.
I liked Talion. It was excessively violent, but dealt with fractures in the Jaf'fa world, and Teal'c's revenge. He was very powerful and his actions were understandable. 'You are about to explode.' was delivered very well.

I also liked Bratac. He and Teal'c have such a dignified bond.
As for Arcad, I thought he was a good villain. He certainly had tunnel vision, but had strength and cunning. Some have complained that Craig Fairbrass was miscast. I never saw him in anything else, and think he did good here. I thought about the Jaf'fa and their seemingly endless, petty struggles with each other.
They remind me of someplace like Iraq. A strong, oppressive dictatorship ruled, was overthrown, but everyone then struggles for their own control, and many people would happily go back to an oligarchy because it's all they know. A lot of Jaf'fa hate the Tauri. it's a long habit, and when you think about it, to many Jaf'fa, we seem like another system lord, much as America, for all it's 'democracy' seem to be a relentless, cruel colonizer to people in the Middle East. When I see the Jaf'fa in that light, a lot of the internal dissension makes sense.
Arcad offered ruthless, deadly violence. He also wants the Ori...perhaps they are a more favorable ruler, much like the system lords...at least they didn't humiliate his people in battle, like the Tauri did.
Arcad's final battle with Teal'c was dramatic. He had a legitimate grievance since Teal'c's men killed his family. Again, tunnel vision. He also came near to killing Teal'c. I did think that it was hard to believe that after a direct thrust to his chest, Teal'c came back fighting. But we have to have a wrap-up.
It was sad to have SG-1 go after Teal'c. it seemed like bad writing to have Cam take on Teal'c.