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If Rod/John or Jack/Daniel had been M/F pairing, would the frienship be seen the same

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    If Rod/John or Jack/Daniel had been M/F pairing, would the frienship be seen the same

    If either John or Rodney or Jack or Daniel had been a woman (though otherwise the exact same, including the way they act around each other), would your view of the McShep and Jack/Daniel ship (friendship/romantic relationship) be different?

    Let's take a look at them:
    * They banter like an old married couple, have been since pretty much they first met
    * They are on the same team and spend most of their waking time together
    * When either of them is in danger, they're both extremely distraught
    * They're very amiable, the subtle touches, the McShep Lovetap, etc.

    Now, if Rodney or John had been a woman, would you doubt the obviousness of the McShep pairing? Let's see, they are both extremely distraught when either of them is in danger.

    In SG-1, Sam often went practically insane whenever Jack went missing, throwing fits and stuff. Shippers jumped at this calling it proof she's obviously in love with Jack. At the same time, when Daniel came back from the dead in "Need", Jack hugged him and called him by an affectionate nickname (the infamous "Spacemonkey"-scene).

    When Daniel was about to Ascend, the person he spoke to before going out was Jack. Of course, they were really close friends. But had either been a woman, do you think anyone would hesitate to cry "Ship!"?

    They banter like an old married couple. In all Partner-shows where the parters are of different sexes, banter like this would be called UST and chemistry and used as evidence for romantic feelings.

    They spend most of their waking time together and have hence become extremely close. People that close can easily take it to the next level.

    The subtle touching (like Lovepat in "Allies" and the Lovetap in "The Return (part II)"). Had Jack done anything like that to Sam, people would've been all over it. Jack often touched Daniel subtly and did things for him. For example, Jack used to push Daniel's glasses back up on his face when they were slipping.

    A lot of people are saying they can never get together because:
    1) They're obviously straight (even though they've never shown an aversion towards men, well, Daniel did show an aversion who he thought was a Kull Warrior but who wants to sleep with one of those?)
    2) Because John's/Jack's military
    3) Because the writers would never dare to go there

    So, if either Rodney or John or Jack or Daniel were a woman (though otherwise the exact same), would your view of their relationships be different?
    75
    Yes
    28.00%
    21
    No
    29.33%
    22
    Who cares?
    42.67%
    32
    Last edited by FallenAngelII; 14 December 2006, 09:29 AM.




    #2
    Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
    If Rodney had been a woman, would anyone doubt the obviousness of the McShep pairing?

    Let's take a look at them:
    * They banter like an old married couple, have been since pretty much they first met
    * They are on the same team and spend most of their waking time together
    * When either of them is in danger, they're both extremely distraught
    * They're very amiable, the subtle touches, the McShep Lovetap, etc.

    Now, if Rodney or John had been a woman, would you doubt the obviousness of the McShep pairing? Let's see, they are both extremely distraught when either of them is in danger.

    In SG-1, Sam often went practically insane whenever Jack went missing, throwing fits and stuff. Shippers jumped at this calling it proof she's obviously in love with Jack.

    They banter like an old married couple. In all Partner-shows where the parters are of different sexes, banter like this would be called UST and chemistry and used as evidence for romantic feelings.

    They spend most of their waking time together and have hence become extremely close. People that close can easily take it to the next level.

    The subtle touching (like Lovepat in "Allies" and the Lovetap in "The Return (part II)"). Had Jack done anything like that to Sam, people would've been all over it.

    A lot of people are saying they can never get together because:
    1) They're obviously straight (even though they've never shown an aversion towards men)
    2) Because John's military
    3) Because the writers would never dare to go there

    So, if either Rodney or John had been a woman, would any of you doubt that they belong together?
    http://forum.gateworld.net/forumdisplay.php?f=40

    Seriously.
    We're whalers on the moon,
    We carry a harpoon.
    But there ain't no whales
    So we tell tall tales
    And sing our whaling tune.

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      #3
      I see the mckay/sheppard friendship the same as the O'neill/Daniel friendship, they're just like two good old friends, nothing more .

      Comment


        #4
        Would I doubt it? Yes, I really would. I 'ship when I can see chemistry of the type that to me begs it. Here, I really don't. I feel exactly the same way about this pairing as I do about John/Teyla and Rodney/Elizabeth - the chemistry is so sibling it would feel incestuous to me to 'ship them, and I'm not interested in seeing that.

        Rodney/Ronon on the other hand... THAT I can see.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Oka View Post
          This is not a thread about their relationship. It's a thread about how the real world perceives their relationship based on prejudices and taboos.



          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
            This is not a thread about their relationship. It's a thread about how the real world perceives their relationship based on prejudices and taboos.
            It's a thread about shipping.
            sigpic

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Alipeeps View Post
              It's a thread about shipping.
              Agreed. It should be in the CR forum.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Trialia View Post
                Agreed. It should be in the CR forum.
                Uh oh. It must be the end of the world. We agree on something!
                sigpic

                Comment


                  #9
                  But they *are* women, and McShep is really femslash.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Alipeeps View Post
                    It's a thread about shipping.
                    No, this is a not a thread to go "They're so doing it", "They're so not doing it". This is a thread about your and the world's attitude towards pairing.

                    Would anyone doubt that two people were meant to be together if they're as close as these two if they were off different sexes?



                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think that had Rodney's character been female (because, despite all of the advances we've made in recent years regarding the obvious flaws in the gender binary, I doubt anyone would put a female into a military command position in the full time cast), that the writer's would be taking advantage of it...a sort of Ricker/Troi thing, where we know there's an obvious attraction, and sometimes we touch on it but other times we don't. I think Rodney's reaction to Chaya in season one was especially subtlety played. Because he's a man, the assumption that is made by the majority of viewers is that his jealousy is directed at John:

                      "John is hooking up with this gorgeous alien priestess, what a Kirk! Why can't I find a beautiful woman like that?"

                      It's just as easy to read it in the reverse. Rodney is jealous, but that jealousy is directed at Chaya:

                      "John is hooking up with this gorgeous alien priestess, what a Kirk!What's the attraction there anyway?"

                      Given Rodney's persistence in finding out what is obviously wrong with Chaya, this second reading is much easier to apply, at least to me. I think that it's interesting to note that had Rodney been a female character, Meredith say, that all of the viewers would read that entire Kirk scene a hell of a lot differently. Women are jealous of other women: “I have to find a way to get her kicked off the island... yadayadayada...”

                      I should note here that I don't care one way or another if the characters are read as gay/straight/bi. I just find it fascinating how everyone reads compulsory heterosexuality in everything, without a thought given to any alternative. What is especially interesting is that "the first male onscreen kiss in the genre" was used as a comic effect, rather than taken seriously. What does that say about our society? Oops...I'm on a tangent. Sorry.

                      Anyhow, to recap, I think it's a fair assumption that had Rodney been cast as a female character, that the team dynamic would have switched up quite a bit. I could just imagine the jealousy between Teyla and girl!Rodney (Gag). I think it would have certainly been more cliché. At least as it is now, I can't call it uninteresting. I love the relationship between John and Rodney, and I wouldn't want to see it changed for anything. (Unless it was an AU episode where John2 and Rodney2 came through the gate with a decidedly different perspective on one another. THAT would be gold.)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
                        No, this is a not a thread to go "They're so doing it", "They're so not doing it". This is a thread about your and the world's attitude towards pairing.

                        Would anyone doubt that two people were meant to be together if they're as close as these two if they were off different sexes?
                        It's about two specific characters and one specific relationship. It's not about Atlantis Season 3 - unless you want to limit the discussion to relevant aspects of only Season 3 episodes?
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Alipeeps View Post
                          It's about two specific characters and one specific relationship. It's not about Atlantis Season 3 - unless you want to limit the discussion to relevant aspects of only Season 3 episodes?
                          Precisely.

                          Hey, we're agreeing again... *looks at the sky a little worriedly*

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Alipeeps View Post
                            It's about two specific characters and one specific relationship. It's not about Atlantis Season 3 - unless you want to limit the discussion to relevant aspects of only Season 3 episodes?
                            Excuse me while I point out that 50% of all threads in here touch upon episodes in both season 3 and previous seasons.

                            But sure, if you want to move it to a more general section, the General Discussion would be appropriate.

                            This is about our perception of a relationship. It's a not promote/not promote thread. It's not to discuss the relationship. It's about our attitude towards it and how people would've perceived it if either had been female.

                            But fine, we can broaden this to incorporate other people like Jack and Daniel.

                            Nearfantastica:
                            Yes, "Sanctuary" was obviously Rodney being jealous. Those who deny he was jealous have to go to some weird places like "Rodney just really didn't like her".



                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
                              Excuse me while I point out that 50% of all threads in here touch upon episodes in both season 3 and previous seasons.

                              But sure, if you want to move it to a more general section, the General Discussion would be appropriate.

                              This is about our perception of a relationship. It's a not promote/not promote thread. It's not to discuss the relationship. It's about our attitude towards it and how people would've perceived it if either had been female.

                              But fine, we can broaden this to incorporate other people like Jack and Daniel.

                              Nearfantastica:
                              Yes, "Sanctuary" was obviously Rodney being jealous. Those who deny he was jealous have to go to some weird places like "Rodney just really didn't like her".
                              Well I'm sure the mods will decide where they think it belongs.

                              Btw, the C&R forum is not JUST for pro or anti threads. It's for discussing aspects - any aspects - of characters and relationships.
                              sigpic

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