Is what Kynthia did in "Brief Candle" rape?

[FallenAngelII]

Wow I'm in a poll-making mood this week. Following the fallout of "Irresponsible" and its reignition of the rape-aspect of "Irresistible", someone made a comment about Hathor and I whipped out a poll about her behavior.

Then, someone in that thread mentioned what Kynthia did.

So in your opnion (no, it does not matter what the writers did or did not intend with the episode or the tone of the episode or whatever else happened during that episode), is what Kynthia did to Jack in "Brief Candle" rape?

I felt there was a need for this thread because some people seem to be under the impression that what constitutes rape is part-dependent on what kind of a person the rapist is.

This is what she did:
* Drugged him with cake
* Had her way with him while he was drugged

Now, some might argue:
* But she was so innocent, she didn't mean it to be rape.

Rape is the act of making someone partake involuntarily in sexual acts through violence, force, threat of injury, other duress, or where the victim is unable to decline due to the effects of drugs, alcohol and/or underage immaturity.

Intent doesn't factor in.

* But Jack didn't get really distraught over it.
So? We didn't see Daniel go all "I got raped!". Also, what difference does it make? Attempted murder is still attempted murder even if the victim is in love with the felon and doesn't get upset by it!

* It's in her culture to do that.
In some cultures, they kill baby girls. Yet others believe the women to be the property of their male relatives until the day she gets married. Then she's the property of her husband. The Talibans didn't allow women to move around outside unless escorted by a male. In some cultures, men can rape and kill women if they've "dishonored themselves or their family" (coincidentally, getting raped is a way of dishonoring themselves and their family).

[lissa1000]

Yes, it was rape and I hated that episode so much I almost stopped watching the show. Why do the writers keep using this plot device? It doesn't look like any of these episodes are popular. You'd think the writers would get a clue.

[PG15]

Doesn't this belong in the "Seasons 1 to 8" folder?

[FallenAngelII]

Doesn't this belong in the "Seasons 1 to 8" folder?

I realized this shortly after making it. However, it's a part of a bigger picture, the whole Lucius-Hathor-(and now)Kynthia issue triad.

All three of them committed acts which, in my opinion, constitute rape, though in different ways. OK, so Hathor and Lucius were very similar in their actions, but Kynthia did it differently (more traditionally) and she was also a completely different kind of person.

Which is why it's interesting to see how people will reason whether or not the three people committeed rape, to see if some people will consider what Hathor and Lucius did was rape but not what Kynthia did, for example.

So it's all a big ball of wax or whatever.

[Mitchell82]

Oh god not another rape discussion. No it wasnt. I quite liked that ep and didnt find that rape.

[Madeleine]

There was a rape. Usually when there's a rape there's a rapist and a rape victim. Here there was certainly a victim; but Kynthia, in her very limited experience, genuinely thought the eating of a wedding cake to be an implicit statement of consent. So she is not a rapist, just ignorant and misguided.

A rape with no rapist.

[FallenAngelII]

Oh god not another rape discussion. No it wasnt. I quite liked that ep and didnt find that rape.

Not to insult you, but:
She drugged him and had sex with him without his consent. And this isn't rape, how?

So if a frat boy does this, it's not rape? Is the difference that the frat boy should know better?

[ccdsah]

It depends:
1. From our POV (morally, legally) it was rape.
2. From Kynthia's POV (her society's POV) it wasn't rape, but a ritual of courtship if you like (at best a misdemeanor)!!!

[Mitchell82]

Not to insult you, but:
She drugged him and had sex with him without his consent. And this isn't rape, how?

So if a frat boy does this, it's not rape? Is the difference that the frat boy should know better?

First off those are two verey different circumstances. kynthia giving him the cake was a familar custom to them and likely didnt even know it was a narcotic. Just b/c it's a custom that may be objectionable to our standards does not a rapist make. She had no ill intentions unlike Lucius.

[FallenAngelII]

First off those are two verey different circumstances. kynthia giving him the cake was a familar custom to them and likely didnt even know it was a narcotic. Just b/c it's a custom that may be objectionable to our standards does not a rapist make. She had no ill intentions unlike Lucius.

Madeleine W had a very sound take of it:
It was a rape without a rapist. The act itself was still a rape. Jack was forced into having sex with someone against his will (he's an experienced man with wits and logic. He wouldn't voluntarily sleep with a girl almost 1/3rd his age and who he'd just met). Even if it wasn't against his will, he was drugged into losing the ability to fight back.

Now Kynthia might not have intended for it to be so. And it was customary to her people. So she's not a rapist. But she still performed a rape.

[Madeleine]

Fallen Angel, I was attempting to quote a post of yours and I hit 'edit' instead of 'quote' and I mangled it . I think I put your post back to what it was, and I'm really REALLY sorry about this, but could you scroll up to the post of yours I edited and check that it still says what it was supposed toi say?

Cheers.

[P-90_177]

what is it with you and rape?

[FallenAngelII]

Fallen Angel, I was attempting to quote a post of yours and I hit 'edit' instead of 'quote' and I mangled it . I think I put your post back to what it was, and I'm really REALLY sorry about this, but could you scroll up to the post of yours I edited and check that it still says what it was supposed toi say?

Cheers.

I think it's back to normal. It was missing a question mark. Either you missed it or I missed it last time .

Oh, and for future reference, it's FallenAngelII/Fallen Angel II or FAII for short . There's a whole story about why it's II instead of I and seeing myself referred to as Fallen Angel or FA just feels weird somehow .

what is it with you and rape?

It's an important issue that I feel it's about time we explore more deeply as we've had several cases of it in both Stargates. It's also a very multi-layered issue, hence why I brought up Lucius, Hathor and Kynthia.

[Isil'zha]

She may not have intended it to be rape, but yeah, drugging someone without their consent and sleeping with them is rape.

Doesn't matter if it's a guy or girl doing it.

What is it with the writers and rape? If you're going to bring it up, do so seriously. It's not a laughing matter.

[mcbarr]

As far as I can see, what Kynthia did would only constitute rape if the law of the land said so, which wasn't the case. If I recall correctly, the cake stuff was sort of a tradition of her people... Please, remember that US (or any other country) law cannot be applied in alien worlds. Besides, take a look at her...