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Sheppard's Delight
December 9th, 2006, 03:37 AM
But why should you leave? Those who have kids and are family oriented may like to include their children in a trip to a Con. At Manchester there were stars from Lord of The Rings, The A Team, Star Trek: Next Generation to name a few, and these are all films/shows kids like!


Oh yes and Harry Potter guests....good job young kids wouldnt be want to go to an event like that ....:eek:

FallenAngelII
December 9th, 2006, 03:58 AM
you know I'm sure most parents want to be able to sit down and discuss things with their kids and not get blindsided...but life's kind of unpredictable.

Also, parents/adults should know that drugging someone and having sex with them is rape. Not caring is one thing, but not being aware of it??? Just make sure when you have that conversation with your child you let him/her know if they do have sex with someone that's been drugged or is falling down drunk they better not tell any police officers because they'll get arrested. (I majored in Criminal Justice and a few of my former professors used to be police officers and they said they arrested quite a few people who admitted they had sex with drunk girls/women not realizing it was a crime....scary.)
Just read through my poll. It's filled with people who don't seem to understand that it's a very, very bad and considered rape when you do that.

Trialia
December 9th, 2006, 04:13 AM
Okay, you just cracked me up with that "boobs do not equal characterisation" comment, Mel. Thank you! After a day and a half of feeling the crap I managed to bring on myself with the med-slip, I feel so much better after seeing this. ;)

I'm off to meet a fellow GWer in an hour or so and I have more to do than to catch up with threads right now, but I will when I get back.

Just one more thing, for the time being-- The Real World? I think you can tell by the existence of the fanlisting (http://trw.unfaithful-mirror.net) for it that there are quite a few people who love it. ;)

Pitry
December 9th, 2006, 04:19 AM
This "what have you done for me lately" attitude on the villagers' part might have worked with the idea that they needed to learn to defend themselves if it had been played up more. Yet as Lavin kept acting self-serving and manipulative, and the villagers kept falling for it, I couldn't really feel sorry for either them or him.


It actually could have worked much better had they not been portrayed as the naive villagers but rather as the less-tha-naive villagers, taking advantage of Lucius as much as he was aking advantage of them :)

FallenAngelII
December 9th, 2006, 04:30 AM
But why should you leave? Those who have kids and are family oriented may like to include their children in a trip to a Con. At Manchester there were stars from Lord of The Rings, The A Team, Star Trek: Next Generation to name a few, and these are all films/shows kids like! There are no age limitations or warnings, so it is deemed suitable for all. At the Con I went to in London there were children there, a couple even asked Joe questions at the Q & A. Stargate Atlantis is marketed as a family show, thus kids enjoy it. My own 10 year old has been watching it since it began and is a big fan, and I see nothing in it that's unsuitable for her. BSG, for example, would be another matter.
Would I have been upset if she had listened to the poster who asked about the alleged sexual assault stuff at the Manchester Con? Nope. I personally wouldn't have had a problem with it, as she wouldn't have understood what was being asked. However, once the question had been asked and answered by the panel, then it should've been been politely dropped. Just because you don't want the answer you're given, isn't a reason to carry on going on about sexual assault once the panel have answered. Whether people like it or not, TPTB have stated on several occasions that it was never their intention to trivialise rape, and have said that's not what Irresistible was about from their perspectives. What else can they say? If people are expecting an apology from the Execs, then I think they're being unrealistic. After all, we all interpret things differently, and just because some see events one way, and others don't doesn't mean there's anything to apologise for in my opinion. Whether posters enjoyed the episode is another matter entirely! I can't ever see any Exec apologising because we, as fans, didn't like the episode they put out.
As far as Irresponsible goes, I still am disappointed with it, but it has nothing to do with Irrestistible. I don't like Lucius. I tolerated him in Irresistible, but putting him and Kolya together was still a massive error in judgment in my opinion. It trivialised Kolya, in my eyes, and I still am apoplectic at the way he was disposed of. That, for me, was such a waste of a character and good drama!!!!
Because the world is not centered around kids and the world is not built to be kid-friendly in every aspect.

Let's go back to the TV analogy. People say "At least home I can turn it off". But there are still TV shows and ads that aren't suitable for smaller children (children who don't understand the concepts of sex and rape yet) on TV during "kiddie hours" (anytime before 9 P.M.).

So what do you do if such a thing pops up while your kid is watching? You switch the channel. Even if you might've wanted to see it yourself.

It's the same with Cons. If someone brings up something you feel your kid shouldn't hear, leave (at least 'til the question has been resolved).

People shouldn't have to walk on egg shells and angle everything they say so that your kids won't overhear something "bad". That's not how the world works.

"The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King" had a huge controversy where some people wanted to put a 15 yearold age limit on it. But in the they I believe they settled for 11. Star Trek deals with violence and sex all the time (hello, Kirk). The A-Team is a very violent show with lots of violence.

Now kids might like the shows and movies. But it doesn't mean they are made for kids or that they don't contain elements kids younger than 11 might not want to see.

Bottom line is, you bring your kid to Con for things they are clearly too young to be watching, be prepared to steer them clear of certain discussions. Your kid is almost 11. Kids should know what sex and rape are at 11 so that they don't go out and go either.

I'm arguing about how the issue was handled. I'm arguing against some people's outrage that the issue was brought up at all when "there were kids present" as if that'd invalidate the issue.


Well actually I guess it depends where you were sitting? They do pack people in and there is not much leg room - you cant just get past everyone without having to ask to be excused.

I also think that maybe the option to turn the TV off applies to adults too. I know that some were really traumatised by watching Irresistible but then tuned in to watch Irresponsible....that is something that I really do not understand at all. Personally I would not subject myself to that.
I make a point out of watching every single episode of my shows. I don't skip the ones I'm sure to hate because I don't want to one day miss what's going on because I didn't watch X and Y episodes. Doesn't mean I didn't loathe both "Irresistible" and "Irresponsible", though.

It seems every Atlantis season's got 1-2 ultra-bad episodes which I completely loathe (and which for once are loathed by a lot of other people, too). And they almost always have some guy walking around having sex with super-bimboes.

Trialia
December 9th, 2006, 04:41 AM
Before I go -- Linzi, I'm the one who asked that question at the Manchester con, and I did not speak any further about it that day, or in public offline, after asking the question and having it answered. Just to correct your assumption.

Sheppard's Delight
December 9th, 2006, 04:52 AM
I make a point out of watching every single episode of my shows. I don't skip the ones I'm sure to hate because I don't want to one day miss what's going on because I didn't watch X and Y episodes. Doesn't mean I didn't loathe both "Irresistible" and "Irresponsible", though.

It seems every Atlantis season's got 1-2 ultra-bad episodes which I completely loathe (and which for once are loathed by a lot of other people, too). And they almost always have some guy walking around having sex with super-bimboes.


Oh I agree with you. I watch every episode of SGA - because I love the show....some eps more than others. I assume however that you were not one of those who had weeks of torment following on from Irresistible and for whom Richard Kind brings up bad memories. For those I believe that going back for seconds and watching another epsiode was ....well Irresponsible!

FallenAngelII
December 9th, 2006, 04:55 AM
Oh I agree with you. I watch every episode of SGA - because I love the show....some eps more than others. I assume however that you were not one of those who had weeks of torment following on from Irresistible and for whom Richard Kind brings up bad memories. For those I believe that going back for seconds and watching another epsiode was ....well Irresponsible!
I had months of loathing following "Irresistible". In fact, I still loathe and am mad at it.

Just like I still loathe "The Tower", "Epiphany" and "Sanctuary" (the aforementioned Bimbo-episodes). I never had anxiety issues over it, but that didn't stop me from spewing hatred over it.

However, I didn't really post that much about it. Not 'til "Irresponsible", which reignited my loathing.

Sheppard's Delight
December 9th, 2006, 05:06 AM
I had months of loathing following "Irresistible". In fact, I still loathe and am mad at it.

Just like I still loathe "The Tower", "Epiphany" and "Sanctuary" (the aforementioned Bimbo-episodes). I never had anxiety issues over it, but that didn't stop me from spewing hatred over it.

However, I didn't really post that much about it. Not 'til "Irresponsible", which reignited my loathing.

I cant say any of those eps are my favorites either (although I think Epiphany is not bad in parts ;) ). I think hating something is one thing - but having anxiety issues and continuing to watch is another and there are people here that are in that position.

I think I can safely say in your case you should continue to watch and loathe away as you feel appropriate.......I am pretty sure (okay hopeful) that we have seen the last of Lucius and I am sure that the rest of season 3 will be awesome......okay not as good as Common Ground :lol: but still maybe Bimbo free...so I hope you feel more love in the weeks to follow

FallenAngelII
December 9th, 2006, 05:17 AM
I cant say any of those eps are my favorites either (although I think Epiphany is not bad in parts ;) ). I think hating something is one thing - but having anxiety issues and continuing to watch is another and there are people here that are in that position.

I think I can safely say in your case you should continue to watch and loathe away as you feel appropriate.......I am pretty sure (okay hopeful) that we have seen the last of Lucius and I am sure that the rest of season 3 will be awesome......okay not as good as Common Ground :lol: but still maybe Bimbo free...so I hope you feel more love in the weeks to follow
Or we've stumbled upon a frightening pattern.

Consider this:
Statistics of Bimbo Episodes of Stargate Atlantis:
Season 1 - "Sanctuary" (count: 1)
Season 2 - "Epiphany", "The Tower" (count: 2)
Season 3 - "Irresistible", "Irresponsible" (count: 2... so far)

If there's a real pattern, we're in for a third Bimbo episode this season!

Sheppard's Delight
December 9th, 2006, 05:22 AM
Or we've stumbled upon a frightening pattern.

Consider this:
Statistics of Bimbo Episodes of Stargate Atlantis:
Season 1 - "Sanctuary" (count: 1)
Season 2 - "Epiphany", "The Tower" (count: 2)
Season 3 - "Irresistible", "Irresponsible" (count: 2... so far)

If there's a real pattern, we're in for a third Bimbo episode this season!

Ummmmmm well I cant see it happening from all the spoilers I have read about s3, but keep that possibility open and we will touch base on that when the season is over;)

expendable_crewman
December 9th, 2006, 05:31 AM
Maybe a writer will notice it..

Weir - How was your trading mission.
Sheppard - They were fair and just traders, just like Teyla's people said they would be. Unlike the last 2 worlds the Athosians told us about.
Teyla - Yes.. those were quite unfortunate "incidents".
McKay - Incidents! I was almost killed three times!
Ronon - You were hiding behind me the whole time.
McKay - Well I was trying to fix the quantam phase shiftlocator. With substandard tools I might add.
Weird - At least you all came back safe and sound...Lol, that was good.

I do get it, though, that from references in the eps Alantis gets to meet real fair and just traders as a matter of course, meaning we're only going to see an episode (I hope) about the missions in which the mess hits the fan. Otherwise ... yawn.

Trialia
December 9th, 2006, 05:41 AM
Or we've stumbled upon a frightening pattern.

Consider this:
Statistics of Bimbo Episodes of Stargate Atlantis:
Season 1 - "Sanctuary" (count: 1)
Season 2 - "Epiphany", "The Tower" (count: 2)
Season 3 - "Irresistible", "Irresponsible" (count: 2... so far)

If there's a real pattern, we're in for a third Bimbo episode this season!
The only redeeming features of Epiphany, IMHO, were Elizabeth offworld actually USING her linguistic skills and that last scene just before and after the Ancients' ascension. (Did you SEE the look on her face when she looked at Teer? I think she might have had some of the same "HURT!" urges I did :P)

But, the other four you've mentioned are all on my "I can not watch this rubbish" list. ;)

Dammit, why am I still online?! *runs*

The Engineer
December 9th, 2006, 05:59 AM
The last Geni story.

Argosy
December 9th, 2006, 09:10 AM
7/10

IMHO this episode was not as bad as most made it out to be.

At least LL wasn’t date-rape-drugging females to sleep with him in this one.

Just as some one else mentioned this episode did seem to be an homage to “The Good, the Bad and the Ugly”.

I could totally see LL as Tuco, Kolya as Angel Eyes, and Shepard as Blondie.

All they realy needed to make it work in the way they intended would have been a location/costumes that were more “wild west” looking, and for Lavin to exclaim at the end (upon being kicked in the groin after the shield was depleted)…”SHEPARD! YOU MESSY HAIRED SON OF A…” * Ennio Morricone composition plays as Shep & the team walks off into the sunset* ;)

That would have been priceless.:cool:

TJuk
December 9th, 2006, 09:37 AM
At the end of the day, cons sell the child tickets, children are encouraged to go there so you should RESPECT the fact that the event is being advertised for and run as a FAMILY event irregardless of how YOU feel, or what show its for. If you dont like kids being there, dont go to them. Why should they and their parents leave when they've paid for the tickets? The event was SOLD as a family event, they aren't expecting it to be completely child orientated but at the same time everyone expects a little respect and consideration for others. For example bad language, the guests understand there are kids in audeinces and modify their behaviour accordingly (or spend a fortune giving out 'naughty word fines' to the kids like Chris Judge!). I can understand for events which are single show themed, IF that show is adult or teenage. Then kids have no place there. However as others have said, Collectormania is a multi-fandom con for many Film and TV shows. Many of which are family entertainment, or films such as Harry Potter orientated directly for children, so saying kids shouldn't be at an events like that is obsurd (specially the lots of people, shopping malls are full of people, you dont stop taking your kids though do you?).

TJuk
December 9th, 2006, 09:41 AM
*rolls eyes* I've often wondered why all of Pegasus seems to be populated by busty, brainless young women and men old enough to be their fathers. I probably shouldn't wonder.

PTB, boobs do not equal characterization. Thank you. :P

Ah yes, but Boobs make male brains go haywire, lowing their IQ and therefore making the bimbo's seem smarter! :P But hey, as someone else said, kudos for the casting, nice to see a healthy curvy female figure promoted as 'attractive'!!!!!

Linzi
December 9th, 2006, 09:51 AM
At the end of the day, cons sell the child tickets, children are encouraged to go there so you should RESPECT the fact that the event is being advertised for and run as a FAMILY event irregardless of how YOU feel, or what show its for. If you dont like kids being there, dont go to them. Why should they and their parents leave when they've paid for the tickets? The event was SOLD as a family event, they aren't expecting it to be completely child orientated but at the same time everyone expects a little respect and consideration for others. For example bad language, the guests understand there are kids in audeinces and modify their behaviour accordingly (or spend a fortune giving out 'naughty word fines' to the kids like Chris Judge!). I can understand for events which are single show themed, IF that show is adult or teenage. Then kids have no place there. However as others have said, Collectormania is a multi-fandom con for many Film and TV shows. Many of which are family entertainment, or films such as Harry Potter orientated directly for children, so saying kids shouldn't be at an events like that is obsurd (specially the lots of people, shopping malls are full of people, you dont stop taking your kids though do you?).
That is a very valid point. If the Cons sell child tickets, then they consider it appropriate for kids to view everything there, so, of course they shouldn't need or be expected to leave, and again, why should they? Just because some posters don't have kids doesn't mean kids should be excluded from events which are supposed to be child friendly, and yes, most Cons are.
I have to say, at the Expo in London, one speaker who came on before Joe, and who was basically a sort of a make-up/special effects artist and actor, used language that I found really inappropriate for kids to hear, and judging from the look on the Expo staff guy's face ,(who was asking and fielding the questions) , so did he!!! It didn't offend me, but it was quite...adult, to put it mildly!!!! ;)
Reading a few comments here about how Irresponsible may have been better with a different filming location - ie, not the 'Dutch' style village, and a more Western set, got me thinking. I personally don't think it would've made any difference to my view of the episode. I think it would've become so much of a parody that I would've thought it ludicrous! I really have to agree with Joe Flanigan. The best comedy moments come from moments in serious episodes. When all out comedy episodes are attempted, they really don't work for me. I especially feel that Kolya and amusing just don't go together!

Sheppard's Delight
December 9th, 2006, 10:06 AM
At the end of the day, cons sell the child tickets, children are encouraged to go there so you should RESPECT the fact that the event is being advertised for and run as a FAMILY event irregardless of how YOU feel, or what show its for. If you dont like kids being there, dont go to them. Why should they and their parents leave when they've paid for the tickets? The event was SOLD as a family event, they aren't expecting it to be completely child orientated but at the same time everyone expects a little respect and consideration for others. For example bad language, the guests understand there are kids in audeinces and modify their behaviour accordingly (or spend a fortune giving out 'naughty word fines' to the kids like Chris Judge!). I can understand for events which are single show themed, IF that show is adult or teenage. Then kids have no place there. However as others have said, Collectormania is a multi-fandom con for many Film and TV shows. Many of which are family entertainment, or films such as Harry Potter orientated directly for children, so saying kids shouldn't be at an events like that is obsurd (specially the lots of people, shopping malls are full of people, you dont stop taking your kids though do you?).


I agree that this was advertised as a family friendly show and in fact children seem to be encouraged by having cheap admission. I know at the Expo in London which was very similar there was free admission for kids.

Sheppard's Delight
December 9th, 2006, 10:09 AM
That is a very valid point. If the Cons sell child tickets, then they consider it appropriate for kids to view everything there, so, of course they shouldn't need or be expected to leave, and again, why should they? Just because some posters don't have kids doesn't mean kids should be excluded from events which are supposed to be child friendly, and yes, most Cons are.
I have to say, at the Expo in London, one speaker who came on before Joe, and who was basically a sort of a make-up/special effects artist and actor, used language that I found really inappropriate for kids to hear, and judging from the look on the Expo staff guy's face ,(who was asking and fielding the questions) , so did he!!! It didn't offend me, but it was quite...adult, to put it mildly!!!! ;)
Reading a few comments here about how Irresponsible may have been better with a different filming location - ie, not the 'Dutch' style village, and a more Western set, got me thinking. I personally don't think it would've made any difference to my view of the episode. I think it would've become so much of a parody that I would've thought it ludicrous! I really have to agree with Joe Flanigan. The best comedy moments come from moments in serious episodes. When all out comedy episodes are attempted, they really don't work for me. I especially feel that Kolya and amusing just don't go together!


Oh I agree.

It would have been a shame if the kids had not been at the London Expo. Their questions got such a great response from Joe - it would have been a shame to have missed that.

SapphireJewelledQueen
December 9th, 2006, 02:33 PM
Hmm, I've never posted in the episode threads before so forgive me if I don't do it...right...

I truly didn't mind Irresponsible. I disliked Irresistable intensely because it made me extrememly uncomfortable, but Lucious was more subdued in Irresponsible. Plus there was the little factor of no druggin of the villagers :rolleyes:

I'm not a big fan of Sheppard, but I loved him in this episode. I'm not sure why, but at the beginning he just caught my attention. He wasn't always making glib remarks and he was serious, but still funny.

Loved everyone in this episode actually. Totally wasn't expecting Kolya to show up but I love that guy so it completely made up for Lucious. Can't believe they killed him off though! *sad* Ronon is my favourite Grrr!Puppy and Teyla actually had an integral part in the episode, which is a nice change.

Overall, I enjoyed it. :)

Amalthia
December 9th, 2006, 04:23 PM
Or we've stumbled upon a frightening pattern.

Consider this:
Statistics of Bimbo Episodes of Stargate Atlantis:
Season 1 - "Sanctuary" (count: 1)
Season 2 - "Epiphany", "The Tower" (count: 2)
Season 3 - "Irresistible", "Irresponsible" (count: 2... so far)

If there's a real pattern, we're in for a third Bimbo episode this season!

I don't really think Chaya counts as a bimbo. :)

I didn't mind Sanctuary because it gave some great moments between Sheppard and McKay...in fact it's kind of odd but the harder the writers try to make Sheppard and McKay straight the less straight they appear. (um okay this was the episode were I thought wow Rodney sounds very jealous and unreasonably upset about Chaya being on Atlantis) I don't mind seeing more of that.

Luz
December 9th, 2006, 04:41 PM
I don't really think Chaya counts as a bimbo. :)

I didn't mind Sanctuary because it gave some great moments between Sheppard and McKay...in fact it's kind of odd but the harder the writers try to make Sheppard and McKay straight the less straight they appear. (um okay this was the episode were I thought wow Rodney sounds very jealous and unreasonably upset about Chaya being on Atlantis) I don't mind seeing more of that.

Uhm, don't know, yeah, McKay did seem to be a bit jealous, he definitely showed a stronger reaction than that of Teyla (who was supposedly advertised as Sheppard's romantic interest before the show started - thank god tptb at least know when something won't work, or that at least in this case the realized ;)), but I think Sheppard looked perfectly agreeable to Chaya's advances. Looked like McKay was the one interested, it seemed unrequited.
I liked Sanctuary, it was entertaining, and it was nice seeing Sheppard like that, all taken with a woman.

ETA: And I agree on Chaya not being a bimbo, sorry, but she seemed smart enough to me, and what can she have of airhead if she dedicates her life to protect her people?.

Mitchell82
December 9th, 2006, 05:36 PM
Hmm, I've never posted in the episode threads before so forgive me if I don't do it...right...

I truly didn't mind Irresponsible. I disliked Irresistable intensely because it made me extrememly uncomfortable, but Lucious was more subdued in Irresponsible. Plus there was the little factor of no druggin of the villagers :rolleyes:

I'm not a big fan of Sheppard, but I loved him in this episode. I'm not sure why, but at the beginning he just caught my attention. He wasn't always making glib remarks and he was serious, but still funny.

Loved everyone in this episode actually. Totally wasn't expecting Kolya to show up but I love that guy so it completely made up for Lucious. Can't believe they killed him off though! *sad* Ronon is my favourite Grrr!Puppy and Teyla actually had an integral part in the episode, which is a nice change.

Overall, I enjoyed it. :)
Nice to hear glad you enjoyed it. Oh why don't you like Sheppard as I quite enjoy his character.

Shipperahoy
December 9th, 2006, 06:37 PM
Just a reminder to try to keep this thread on topic. That last page or so hasn't really discussed the episode at all. I know that a certain amount of discussion of Lucius's actions in Irresistable are going to be included in the Irresponsible discussion since he's recurred in this episode but other discussion (i.e. con questions, which characters were "bimbos") should be taken off thread. Thanks.

SapphireJewelledQueen
December 9th, 2006, 08:58 PM
Nice to hear glad you enjoyed it. Oh why don't you like Sheppard as I quite enjoy his character.

In this episode I loved him. I can't really put my finger on it, but the same was for the moment in The Seige when he runs off to fly the Puddlejumper. It was serious and compelling, but generally I'm not too worried about that character :)

I thought Irresponsible had some great interaction between the whole team. Maybe that's what made the difference....?

FallenAngelII
December 10th, 2006, 05:16 AM
I don't really think Chaya counts as a bimbo. :)

I didn't mind Sanctuary because it gave some great moments between Sheppard and McKay...in fact it's kind of odd but the harder the writers try to make Sheppard and McKay straight the less straight they appear. (um okay this was the episode were I thought wow Rodney sounds very jealous and unreasonably upset about Chaya being on Atlantis) I don't mind seeing more of that.
Let's see... some strange alien bimbo priestess "makes friends" with John. Within, oh, 5 hours, he's giving her his full trust, bringing her to Atlantis and telling Rodney to shut the hell up when he tells him he doesn't trust her and that they shouldn't bring her to Atlantis.

He then has a picnic with her and gives her the last of some of their special foods.

Why? Because she's so lovely?

The episode made John seem like a moronic slut who'd throw away his friends and endanger the city for a pretty broad. In the end they had what amounts to incorporeal sex.

The_Tsid.
December 10th, 2006, 08:57 AM
I respect that you brought this issue up, Ken, but if they had bothered to watch "Hide and Seek" even once before writing this script, it should have been obvious that the rule about slow-moving impacts wasn't being applied in that original episode. I'm sorry, but I just can't stand inconsistencies like that, not when all you have to do is just take 43 minutes out of your busy day to simply watch it just once all the way through in order to make sure. Take some notes about your new toys, for goodness sake.

Maybe they should hire fans to 'beta' their scripts for them. :D Heck, I'd do it for free.

EXACTLY, you have any idea how much that bothered me?!!
Even when Shepperd ran out from the room to avoid the explosion, he tapped Lucius's shoulder and that triggered the device!

Luz
December 10th, 2006, 09:42 AM
Let's see... some strange alien bimbo priestess "makes friends" with John. Within, oh, 5 hours, he's giving her his full trust, bringing her to Atlantis and telling Rodney to shut the hell up when he tells him he doesn't trust her and that they shouldn't bring her to Atlantis.

He then has a picnic with her and gives her the last of some of their special foods.

Why? Because she's so lovely?

The episode made John seem like a moronic slut who'd throw away his friends and endanger the city for a pretty broad. In the end they had what amounts to incorporeal sex.

I disagree, I saw John feeling attracted to a beautiful woman (which I consider normal for a HETEROSEXUAL male), he brought her to Atlantis, he's done that before, he brought the Athosians to Atlantis (I don't see many people calling him a moron for that). Rodney was being his usual annoying self, Sheppard just wanted to be friendly and I think Rodney's reaction was disproportionate, but then he has always had the tendency to overreact.
The last of their special food?, so he gave her some strawberries, you make it sound like he left all the people to starve to death, when it was just strawberries.
And I disagree with Chaya being a bimbo, but then you seem to think that any woman that dares to look at Sheppard is a slut and a bimbo, wonder why? *looks at your sig* nevermind. ;)

Lieutenant Reichwein
December 10th, 2006, 10:49 AM
I didn't think this episode was all that bad. It was a fun episode and I found Lucius to be quite humorous. 40 minutes of solid entertainment, I can't complain.

SallyLizzie
December 10th, 2006, 10:59 AM
-Like the team teasing Teyla; ties back to the teasing in Irresistible. (Also liked the tie backs to H&S and Ts/TE) Nice to see how comfortable they are with each other that they can tease each other in this manner.
-Ronon's people as superhero's - LMAO! :D
-Whole scene with Lucius recalling his adventures, including the teams reaction, was amusing.
-Snarky Teyla! :D
-Angry!puppy Ronon! :D
-Liked the scene where Lucius tells his people they need to regain independence.

-Bad setting. It was like a mix of Western and Tea Gardens. Maybe if they'd changed the costuming to something less camp and less bimbo-y, it might have gotten away with it. (Was that the same village used for SG1's Revisions?)
-Don't think it helped either that the Genii are known, and have always been shown, as a dark underground movement. Something which the bright, sunny, lighting belittled.
-I could see where the tension was supposed to be, I just didn't feel it.
-The scene where the villagers come rallying seemed hashed, and unfortunately, it broke any tension that had been built.
-Usually the music helps, but not in this case. The killing of Kolya was a monumental moment, both for Sheppard and the Genni. Imo, the tone should have been more dramatic, not triumphant.

SallyLizzie
December 10th, 2006, 11:03 AM
I didn't think this episode was all that bad. It was a fun episode and I found Lucius to be quite humorous. 40 minutes of solid entertainment, I can't complain.

Had it been another enemy, and not the ep where they killed off the most well loved bad guy, I could have agreed. Unfortunatley, I think there was too many things being mixed up in this ep, something which wasn't balanced out right.

FallenAngelII
December 10th, 2006, 11:45 AM
I disagree, I saw John feeling attracted to a beautiful woman (which I consider normal for a HETEROSEXUAL male), he brought her to Atlantis, he's done that before, he brought the Athosians to Atlantis (I don't see many people calling him a moron for that). Rodney was being his usual annoying self, Sheppard just wanted to be friendly and I think Rodney's reaction was disproportionate, but then he has always had the tendency to overreact.
The last of their special food?, so he gave her some strawberries, you make it sound like he left all the people to starve to death, when it was just strawberries.
And I disagree with Chaya being a bimbo, but then you seem to think that any woman that dares to look at Sheppard is a slut and a bimbo, wonder why? *looks at your sig* nevermind. ;)
1) Yes, he was attracted to her. Big deal? Most people ignore protocol for that. He is the Military Commander of Atlantis. He has responsibilities which override his libido.
2) She was someone he knew nothing about. How often do we let people into the SGC or into Atlantis just like that just because they seem friendly? The Athosians were refugees, fleeing from an obviously hostile enemy. It's like blaming SG-1 for saving the Tollans in "Enigma".
3) He has the tendency to overreact, but that doesn't mean he's always wrong. It doesn't mean none of his arguments held no merits. Why should they trust her enough to let her move around the city (John gave her a tour of teh city)? John also yelled at Rodney for voicing his suspicion.
4) What John did is extra upsetting after they'd encountered people like the Hoffans ("Poisoning the Well") and the Genii ("Underground"). Both groups of people who seemed friendly and nice at first but who turned out to be harbouring a dark secret. In the case of the Genii, they're also cronically stupid, but that's for another thread.
5) It was the last of their strawberries. He thought she deserved this, why? The SGC does not run around and feed their guests delicassies like the last of Colorado's truffle. Please enlighten me why she deserved those strawberries? OK, so he had a right to take her out for a picnic. That's his choice. To swipe the last of their strawberries (the last for another, oh, 4 months, but for all he knew, the last for the rest of their lives) was not in his authority.
6) I use (inappropriately) the collective term Bimbo for a lot of things. The Bimbo episodes of Stargate Atlantis are episodes that involve random women who mostly walk around swooning over John and/or make him swoon over them. The plot is heavily based on that swooning or the swooning plays an important role in the episode.

A better term would be Bimbo/Slut/Stupid Blonde/Valley Girl Episodes.
7) I have no problems with shipping that's well done. Even though most of the Sam/Jack shipping was handled clumsily, I've never called Sam a Bimbo or any derogatory terms for it. However, I still dislike the random shipping they put her through in season 9. I dislike badly done shipping/slut-of-the-week.
8) Note that I called John a slut as well. I do not discriminate based on gender (I discriminate based on stupidity).


-Like the team teasing Teyla; ties back to the teasing in Irresistible. (Also liked the tie backs to H&S and Ts/TE) Nice to see how comfortable they are with each other that they can tease each other in this manner.
-Ronon's people as superhero's - LMAO! :D
-Whole scene with Lucius recalling his adventures, including the teams reaction, was amusing.
-Snarky Teyla! :D
-Angry!puppy Ronon! :D
-Liked the scene where Lucius tells his people they need to regain independence.
In my opinion, that was a horrible scene. Lucius had realized that he couldn't beat the Genii (for whatever reason, apparentely he's too stupid to eat least try to throw a punch at them) so he made up a stupid reason why he couldn't help them this time (though still emphasizing that they'll need him in the future and that he should still be their hero).

What followed was a collective case of stupidity. While most of the villagers stood around not understanding why he couldn't fight this battle for them (despite what John had told them earlier and despite that they'd all seen Lucius fail utterly to fight back the Genii), that one woman rationalized that it's obviously because he wanted them to regain their independence.

It's a classic scene of the stupid misleading the even stupider.

cjp240573
December 10th, 2006, 12:12 PM
am i the only one who thought Irresposible was a very good entertaining watch?

CJ :daniel:

vaberella
December 10th, 2006, 12:16 PM
As for my review of Irresponsible.

Actually I liked this ep more than I liked The Return II (except for the Weir/Jack scene! Yes, I'm a Weir/Jack shipper, down with Carter!! :D (It may never happen, but I'm sticking out for Jack/Weir)). Decent ep overall despite the crappy ending of Kolya who I felt to be a dynamic villain, not very original but great. Unlike other's who got a kick out of the teasing, I didnt' find it funny. I kept getting the impression that they were making fun of the 'natives' and this whole super hero thing. Which bugged the hell out of me, but that's me, it's also why I can't stand any I see Carter and McKay in the same ep, because McKay is turned into a dancing monkey. Some see it as friendly banter, I see it with a bit more maliciousness involved.

Now my break down through characters..
Kolya is first since he doesn't get a face.

Kolya (:confused: :( ): Didn't like how he was killed. That's the sum of it, the entire moment seemed rushed and put together to end the role, and that's my real problem. Kolya wasn't his intuitive general self, and can make a man suffer like he did in Common Ground or go on a two ep terror spree like in The Storm/The Eye. That's very annoying end. And the way they ended it...reminds me of like a bad John Wayne meets Scooby Doo episodes. I'm sorry to say that John Sheppard is no Gary Cooper or John Wayne and will never be able to fill the shoes of Clint Eastwood (this excludes Paint Your Wagon--which I can see John Shepard doing). So was I upset with Kolya, dieing yes, otherwise he was his normal self.

:sheppard: Well now, don't know what to really say. John was John. When he sees Kolya he's a tad bit reckless, and to see a man like that as leader is questionable. Not to bash Shep, but come on people...he was doing a Ronon, who was no help. I'm sure if it was just Ronon, John, Mckay, and Beckett (who really had no purpose there); Beckett and McKay would be injured if not dead. He wasn't his usual crafty self, not really as innovative as I would like, unless his plan was to get his mates captured by the enemy. Which was again just to easy, as it's remeniscint (sp?) of The Storm/The Eye. He goes alone and saves the day----great old hero. Again it could just be my bias, since I'm big on the anti-hero; but I was hoping for a bit more--maybe team effort.

:ronan: He was Ronon, reckless and after the kill or be killed without a damn for others or safeguarding the surrounding property. Not his best, because they make him a big lug here, and this is why I put Echoes on a bloody pedestal, I get a Ronon I like to watch---complex. I have problems when he's the stereotyped heavy weight...reminds me of Collosus in X-Men (The Movie that is, he's so much better in the comic).

:teyla: Well for the minimal time they gave my girl, she was good. I mean she showed what I've been saying for a while now. She DOESN'T take orders, she choose to follow an order if it's a better plan, but if it isn't...she'll be willing to give the orders. Which she bloody well does. If she wasn't around there would have been a blood bath and lots of stupidity. If I were surrounded by the comments and the ideas that comes out of these people on a daily basis, I would need an epi pen. Other than that, she was weakened like the rest of the crew.

:mckay: McKay, McKay, McKay---well always one of my fave characters, but explain to me what he did in this but fill space. He really had nothing to give nor did he try to give, so it was blah for me, besides his favorite super hero being Batman. Now I can't knock a man who loves Batman. I'm actually quite happy he loves Batman, because I never got the whole Superman thing. Batman was human working in his community, he was making changes, and he is extremely intelligent, and sexy and has billions of dollars. He's like...like George Clooney!! Hmmm....no wonder he played Batman (as horrible a Batman as he was!). Anyway I digress, beyond the Batman stuff I saw nothing.

:weir: She didn't have much lines, so there's not much to say on her, and her only dynamic moment was walking down the stairs. This ep was really not an ep for developing anyone but Lucius...

:beckett: No purpose, except for his moment of agreement with Teyla and then patting her on the back...for I assume a job well done on calming down the other guys. At this point, I think he PMS', not really sure what he was supposed to do, maybe check out Mr. Super Human, but I'd like him on missions with Lorne or just change up he show a bit, loved Conversion for just that alone. I need some mixing of the teams I think. Beckett on Lorne's team would be interesting. Much like seeing Zelenka there.

Lucius: Now this is an interesting character. I save him for last because there was much to say. I think he was very much a John wanna be. I liked how they made his hair all crazy---I'll say to give the impression of John idolizing, I liked that he wore all black...ie John which wasn't his style before. Then there was the stories that he pretty much took from John. So that was interesting how he sort of ingested the John Sheppard persona, I'll put the black vest to being similar to John's military vest. So I saw that parallel and liked that interesting aspect. Kind of worked with that super hero, invincible thing that John gives off. Besides probably over thinking that...really I didn't see bringing him back. It was funny while it was there the first time, but really it wasn't worth a second showing.


Overall I give this a, 2 extra points just for at least having Kolya and proving my point on Teyla!:


4 out of 10
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only redeeming features of Epiphany, IMHO, were Elizabeth offworld actually USING her linguistic skills and that last scene just before and after the Ancients' ascension. (Did you SEE the look on her face when she looked at Teer? I think she might have had some of the same "HURT!" urges I did :P)

But, the other four you've mentioned are all on my "I can not watch this rubbish" list. ;)

Dammit, why am I still online?! *runs*

What skills?! ---And this is in no way being rude. She stated the obvious, check out when Teyla and McKay rolled their eyes, after her statements on reading Ancient. They had already figured out what it was saying through trial and error, she didn't bring anything new to the board. Hence, not that redeemable. Although I did like the ep, and I liked that creepy girl Teer. She was worth my time, she was creepy.

PG15
December 10th, 2006, 12:20 PM
Let's see... some strange alien bimbo priestess "makes friends" with John. Within, oh, 5 hours, he's giving her his full trust, bringing her to Atlantis and telling Rodney to shut the hell up when he tells him he doesn't trust her and that they shouldn't bring her to Atlantis.

He then has a picnic with her and gives her the last of some of their special foods.

Why? Because she's so lovely?

The episode made John seem like a moronic slut who'd throw away his friends and endanger the city for a pretty broad. In the end they had what amounts to incorporeal sex.

I think it's a bit of attraction, and a bit of the fact that she runs a planet that can blow Wraith darts like *snap* that.

Luz
December 10th, 2006, 01:20 PM
-Ronon's people as superhero's - LMAO! :D
I was thinking about this before, were all men from his home planet like that?, because I can picture a planet full of big, strong, muscled (but not too buff, I'm not into exaggeratedly buff) guys *RAR*.

-Bad setting. It was like a mix of Western and Tea Gardens. Maybe if they'd changed the costuming to something less camp and less bimbo-y, it might have gotten away with it. (Was that the same village used for SG1's Revisions?)


I don't think anything would have salvaged this episode, unless they'd completely cut off Lucius part, and dropped the whole western on a dutch village homage, off course that's because I hate westerns, so even if they'd gotten it right I'd probably still have been bored to death.
Maybe they should just stop stealing paying homage, and start coming up with original ideas.
Oh, and more Elizabeth would have helped (IMO), but then she's my favorite. :)

SapphireJewelledQueen
December 10th, 2006, 01:33 PM
am i the only one who thought Irresposible was a very good entertaining watch?

CJ :daniel:

Nope :) There are some parts I didn't care for much, but overall I thought it was entertaining.

And frankly? I don't really care that much about little plot holes and small inconsistencies and a semi-weak storyline. It's entertainment FCOL and it's a TV show that I enjoy so I why not just overlook small things an still enjoy it?

prion
December 10th, 2006, 03:07 PM
At the end of the day, cons sell the child tickets, children are encouraged to go there so you should RESPECT the fact that the event is being advertised for and run as a FAMILY event irregardless of how YOU feel, or what show its for. If you dont like kids being there, dont go to them. Why should they and their parents leave when they've paid for the tickets? The event was SOLD as a family event, they aren't expecting it to be completely child orientated but at the same time everyone expects a little respect and consideration for others. For example bad language, the guests understand there are kids in audeinces and modify their behaviour accordingly (or spend a fortune giving out 'naughty word fines' to the kids like Chris Judge!). I can understand for events which are single show themed, IF that show is adult or teenage. Then kids have no place there. However as others have said, Collectormania is a multi-fandom con for many Film and TV shows. Many of which are family entertainment, or films such as Harry Potter orientated directly for children, so saying kids shouldn't be at an events like that is obsurd (specially the lots of people, shopping malls are full of people, you dont stop taking your kids though do you?).

I'd say it's up to the convention to state very clearly on all advertising that they're family friendly, and quite honestly, I can't recall any saying that. I thikn many conventions either rely on the adults to monitor their own kids or perhaps ban them from areas with adult content.

Meanwhile, there is actually a thread to discuss Convention Etiquette where if this part of this thread continued, you'd probably get more imput from veteran con-goers.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=16304

the old briar pipe
December 10th, 2006, 03:09 PM
Lucius: Now this is an interesting character. I save him for last because there was much to say. I think he was very much a John wanna be. I liked how they made his hair all crazy---I'll say to give the impression of John idolizing, I liked that he wore all black...ie John which wasn't his style before. Then there was the stories that he pretty much took from John. So that was interesting how he sort of ingested the John Sheppard persona, I'll put the black vest to being similar to John's military vest. So I saw that parallel and liked that interesting aspect. Kind of worked with that super hero, invincible thing that John gives off.

Ok, this? Is the first thing I've heard about Lucius that made him worth a second look. If you're right, the one thing he's really missing (besides a P-90 and that unique way of lounging against any solid object) is Shep's team.

So if Shep is a superhero, the team is what - the superfriends? :) Teyla was clearly the moral compass, as you mentioned, and Beckett was supposed to be the one showing faith, I guess? The jail speech didn't work for me, but if it had, I think that's what I would have drawn from it. McKay and Ronon were oddly paired in this ep, overly timid brains vs. not thinking very clearly brawn. It worked for comedic effect but I agree it wasn't exactly what I'd want to see from them.

I think their special collective superpower is the raised eyebrow. Or maybe the knack for getting themselves caught so Shep can have his moment.

(When Teyla came banging out of a double-doored Dutch parlor with lace curtains, I just. :o That so should have been a swinging saloon door. *hides face*)

In terms of team, this wasn't "Sateda", but neither was it "Phantoms", with everyone off doing their own thing. I think the team really did work better together than in "Return II", but not than "Return I", obviously. And I won't compare "Echoes" because it's apples and oranges - individual relationships versus team.

Seriously, somebody needs to figure out Beckett's superpower and tell me. I'm still confused.

prion
December 10th, 2006, 03:15 PM
And I disagree with Chaya being a bimbo, but then you seem to think that any woman that dares to look at Sheppard is a slut and a bimbo, wonder why? *looks at your sig* nevermind. ;)

Actually, Sheppard can't be a slut as the term is actually means 'an immoral or dissolute woman; prostitute.' Face it, if a guy beds 2,000 women, people don't call him a slut, they call him lucky. The old double standard. And well, not to start up another argument, but in TV shows, the guys are allowed to bed a number of women without consequence, and for some reason, the ner-do-wells in the stargate universe seem to have multiple wives. I think the writers are just ripping off Harry mudd.

SapphireJewelledQueen
December 10th, 2006, 03:46 PM
Here I was thinking this was a discussion thread for the episode Irresponsible, not Sheppard's moral shortcomings :rolleyes: Silly me... ;)

Alipeeps
December 10th, 2006, 03:59 PM
Here I was thinking this was a discussion thread for the episode Irresponsible, not Sheppard's moral shortcomings :rolleyes: Silly me... ;)

It's an easy mistake to make... ;)

Willow'sCat
December 10th, 2006, 04:32 PM
Here I was thinking this was a discussion thread for the episode Irresponsible, not Sheppard's moral shortcomings :rolleyes: Silly me... ;)
Sheppard is a character in the show, I don't' see why discussing his presence or the way he is portrayed in all eps leading up to and including this one is off topic or wrong. ;) I did think the on-going Con discussion needed to be elsewhere.

Alipeeps
December 10th, 2006, 04:43 PM
Sheppard is a character in the show, I don't' see why discussing his presence or the way he is portrayed in all eps leading up to and including this one is off topic or wrong. ;) I did think the on-going Con discussion needed to be elsewhere.

Discussing Sheppard's alleged past "conquests" and their possible status as bimbos is, I would have thought, much more appropriate to e.g. the STAKS thread than the ep discussion thread for Irresponsible in which the only female with which Sheppard interacted at all was Teyla.

And we have been asked to take that discussion elsewhere by the mods.

I do find that Irresponsible is growing on me with time - I admit I tend to skip through most of the Lucius bits on repeated watching (not cos I hate him but because, in general, I don't find his character remotely as interesting to watch as, for example, Kolya or the SGA team) but the team moments in this aere very enjoyable.... and is it shallow of me to mention how hawt Sheppard looks in this ep? ;) :D

SapphireJewelledQueen
December 10th, 2006, 04:54 PM
Sheppard is a character in the show, I don't' see why discussing his presence or the way he is portrayed in all eps leading up to and including this one is off topic or wrong. ;) I did think the on-going Con discussion needed to be elsewhere.

We have been asked by the mods to remove it, and it doesn't really have anything to do with this episode. It would be a more appropriate discussion for the actual thread dedicated to the character :)


It's an easy mistake to make... ;)

Apparently ;):P

I think I'm going to have to watch this episode again and see if I can pinpoint just what, exactly, it is that made me like it. Because I certainly despise the Lucious character...

Luz
December 10th, 2006, 05:03 PM
Just a reminder to try to keep this thread on topic. That last page or so hasn't really discussed the episode at all. I know that a certain amount of discussion of Lucius's actions in Irresistable are going to be included in the Irresponsible discussion since he's recurred in this episode but other discussion (i.e. con questions, which characters were "bimbos") should be taken off thread. Thanks.

I hadn't seen this post by Shipperahoy.

Teddybear
December 11th, 2006, 10:35 AM
:cool: :confused:
I liked the beggining of the episode , when we discover Lucius I thought that we were going to have a funny episode, to classify in the category Comedy like TPTB knows to make ( see Irresistible, Duet) , and indeed there were funny moments when Lucius is telling stories . He takes inspiration in the mission reports and you see the faces of the all team . Did you notice that Lucius's hairstyle was like Sheppard's ?
But though the actor who plays Lucius is very funny , very soon I began to
ask myself what was the aim of this episode .
Then in the second part , the Genii led by Kolya arrived and I had been very disappointed . Why involving one of the best SGA team' ennemy in such an episode , for me it minimized the emotionnal impact to face them again , and the Genii deserved better than that . I remember , after watching Common Ground (my favorite episode) to have thought : WOUAH ! the next time Sheppard will meet Kolya, the episode will be dark and even violent like CG . I regret the mixture they've done . I regret the death of Kolya , it's too quick, too simple . I regret we don't see all the emotionnal impact on SGA team , specially on Sheppard . I regret that one of the main character ,deeply involved with her hate for Kolya , I mean DR Weir , was not even there . No really, I think TPTB missed something great . The actor Robert Davi who plays Kolya is a great actor and deserved better for his character . Now I fear for what TPTB is going to do , the next time Sheppard and his team will meet a wraith , forgotten the traumatic events of CG .
Nevertheless, despite my opinion about the waste with the genii , I watched two times the episode , and it stays a pleasant episode to watch , not in my favorite ones , but I have to say that I like more and more all the characters of the team.

jannagalaxy
December 11th, 2006, 10:55 AM
I thought that the team were awesome in this episode. Not a fave but not a hate. It was in the middle. :D

Jeyla4ever
December 11th, 2006, 11:39 AM
the old briar pipe

(When Teyla came banging out of a double-doored Dutch parlor with lace curtains, I just. :o That so should have been a swinging saloon door. *hides face*)

LOL...I can actually visualize this......and you are sooo right!

That would have made the episode perfect! ;)

FallenAngelII
December 11th, 2006, 11:50 AM
I think it's a bit of attraction, and a bit of the fact that she runs a planet that can blow Wraith darts like *snap* that.
Which she'd already told him she wouldn't help us with. Did John think wining and dining (and maybe bedding) her would make her change her mind? Then he's a pig.


Actually, Sheppard can't be a slut as the term is actually means 'an immoral or dissolute woman; prostitute.' Face it, if a guy beds 2,000 women, people don't call him a slut, they call him lucky. The old double standard. And well, not to start up another argument, but in TV shows, the guys are allowed to bed a number of women without consequence, and for some reason, the ner-do-wells in the stargate universe seem to have multiple wives. I think the writers are just ripping off Harry mudd.
Those people are stupid.

John's first two years in Atlantis were extremely slutty. I've never made a secret of what I think of his actions these past two years.

FoolishPleasure
December 11th, 2006, 11:55 AM
Which she'd already told him she wouldn't help us with. Did John think wining and dining (and maybe bedding) her would make her change her mind? Then he's a pig.

Those people are stupid.

John's first two years in Atlantis were extremely slutty. I've never made a secret of what I think of his actions these past two years.

Hey, he's the "Babe Magnet"! Or even better, if you prowl around, many in fandom simply refer to him as the "Shep Ho", which isn't quite what TPTB intended, I'm sure. ;)

FallenAngelII
December 11th, 2006, 12:02 PM
Hey, he's the "Babe Magnet"! Or even better, if you prowl around, many in fandom simply refer to him as the "Shep Ho", which isn't quite what TPTB intended, I'm sure. ;)
I prefer the term Shepwh0re.

It doesn't matter if he's a babe magnet. Not to honk my own horn, but I'm not ugly myself. I have people comment on my looks and come onto me. But I don't jump into bed with all of the attractive to semi-attractive people who come onto me nor do I randomly flirt back.

I especially wouldn't do it if I were the military commander of Earth's most important undertaking ever! And I would never bring back people I'd just met whom one of my teammates (and supposed best friend) was suspicious against back to my base and possibly compromise security just because I thought they were trustworthy (or possibly because I felt horny and though they were hot).

That's bad, bad behaviour. And John made a huge mistake there. Sure, she wasn't a Genii spy, but he trusted someone who lied to him, who lied to all of them. He brought her back to Atlantis, showed her around, etc., etc.

If she had turned out to be hostile, she could've set off some bomb and they'd all be dead now. John just got lucky that one time.

The Brotherhood of the Fifteen's leader seemed friendly and trustworthy. They never entertained bringing her back to Atlantis because "they thought she was lonely". They didn't consider bringing the Genii, who were supposedly their allies (for however short a period of time) back to the base on a friendly visit either.

But, no, this random priestess he'd known for 10 minutes was worth bringing back!

Alipeeps
December 11th, 2006, 05:17 PM
Can we PLEASE, as requested by the mods, take the "Sheppard is a slut" discussion to the appropriate thread and return this one to actually discussing the episode Irresponsible?

vaberella
December 11th, 2006, 05:56 PM
Can we PLEASE, as requested by the mods, take the "Sheppard is a slut" discussion to the appropriate thread and return this one to actually discussing the episode Irresponsible?

I agree with her ^!! (or I think it's a her). Based on my past long ago statements...I far from think Shep is that rather crude term, nor do I even like it's usage. People weren't meant to be monogomas--they choose to be, get over it. If it doesn't affect his ability in doing a job, he can do what he wants, it's his body, his mind---bloody hell if it was a real person, you people would have some nerve, spouting out moral standards, like they're holier than thou. :rolleyes:

psychofilly
December 11th, 2006, 06:17 PM
Can we PLEASE, as requested by the mods, take the "Sheppard is a slut" discussion to the appropriate thread and return this one to actually discussing the episode Irresponsible?


Sheps not a slut? There go my chances. :mckay:

I think Shep was marketed as a "babe magnet" in a tongue in cheek sort of way, but he's hardly a manwhore.

Luz
December 11th, 2006, 06:21 PM
Sheps not a slut? There go my chances. :mckay:

I think Shep was marketed as a "babe magnet" in a tongue in cheek sort of way, but he's hardly a manwhore.

ITA, he hardly is, three women in three seasons (or two since he hasn't on season three), and he's a slut, oh, and let's not forget that every single woman who flirts is a slutty bimbo. Some people set their standards so high, must be comfy there in the high horse, looking down and passing judgment. *whatever*

Skydiver
December 11th, 2006, 07:11 PM
Ladies and gents, the topic of this thread is Irresponsible. not 'shep the ho'

Please take all the off-topic conversation where it is on topic.

Easter Lily
December 12th, 2006, 08:27 PM
I suppose I'm in the minority here because I actually didn't mind the episode. While it wasn't exactly scintillating stuff, I didn't find it all that repulsive or loathesome as the general feeling seems to be around here. I haven't gone through the entire thread but judging from the early pages, it wasn't the most popular episode this season.

The real problem with the episode, in my opinion, is that it was basically a Western cliche. It played with the genre but didn't do anything new or very exciting with it. The stranger that comes into town helps fend off raiders... the people become dependent and he uses them as a means of sheltering himself. In comes some real villains and of course, it's The Magnificent Seven all over again. Typical to a western is the standoff... a western without a standoff is no western at all.
The final standoff between Sheppard and Kolya, while not unexpected, was not as ripe with tension as it should have been.

There's something very child-like about both the townspeople and Lucius. Lucius isn't a villain insomuch as he is a child who has a toy and doesn't really know how to use it responsibly. They feed off one another's naivety.

It wasn't really a "bad" episode but it could have been much better. Less focus on and chatter from Lucius and more emphasis on the Genii laying seige to the town would have made for a more dramatic episode.

obsessed1
December 15th, 2006, 06:03 AM
I suppose I'm in the minority here because I actually didn't mind the episode. While it wasn't exactly scintillating stuff, I didn't find it all that repulsive or loathesome as the general feeling seems to be around here. I haven't gone through the entire thread but judging from the early pages, it wasn't the most popular episode this season.

The real problem with the episode, in my opinion, is that it was basically a Western cliche. It played with the genre but didn't do anything new or very exciting with it. The stranger that comes into town helps fend off raiders... the people become dependent and he uses them as a means of sheltering himself. In comes some real villains and of course, it's The Magnificent Seven all over again. Typical to a western is the standoff... a western without a standoff is no western at all.
The final standoff between Sheppard and Kolya, while not unexpected, was not as ripe with tension as it should have been.

There's something very child-like about both the townspeople and Lucius. Lucius isn't a villain insomuch as he is a child who has a toy and doesn't really know how to use it responsibly. They feed off one another's naivety.

It wasn't really a "bad" episode but it could have been much better. Less focus on and chatter from Lucius and more emphasis on the Genii laying seige to the town would have made for a more dramatic episode.
yeah i think that was my problem. The fact that it was billed as a western themed type ep but none of it really went together. I mean that set......shakes head in despair*

psychofilly
December 15th, 2006, 06:12 AM
yeah i think that was my problem. The fact that it was billed as a western themed type ep but none of it really went together. I mean that set......shakes head in despair*

LOL, I actually kinda liked that aspect. It made it feel like crack-fic. Atlantis goes SpagettiDutch-Western!

obsessed1
December 15th, 2006, 08:10 AM
LOL, I actually kinda liked that aspect. It made it feel like crack-fic. Atlantis goes SpagettiDutch-Western!
LOL :D

Linzi
December 15th, 2006, 08:48 AM
LOL, I actually kinda liked that aspect. It made it feel like crack-fic. Atlantis goes SpagettiDutch-Western!
:lol:

Easter Lily
December 15th, 2006, 06:49 PM
LOL, I actually kinda liked that aspect. It made it feel like crack-fic. Atlantis goes SpagettiDutch-Western!

I was thinking German myself... ;) but it's all good. :D

I don't mind imitation but there's imitation and there's imitation... ;)

memnarch
December 21st, 2006, 03:33 PM
First of all, did anyone else notice that it was the same village from Revisions in Season 7 of SG1? Yep. Either that or very similar architecture. Anyway, I like Lucius, though the plot of the episode was somewhat contrived and unoriginal (I don't know, but I'm guessing a Joseph Mallozzi and Paul Mullie script). Beckett's presence in the first place was rather pointless. Why would he be needed to check out this "great hero" medically? Also, he didn't get much to do after checking Lucius out. What the episode boiled down to was a showdown between Sheppard and Kolya, which was disappointing, as Kolya's awesome and menacing and should not have been in the same episode as a silly character like Lucius.


Overall ** stars

maxbo
December 26th, 2006, 09:06 AM
Even with the soothing balm of time, this episode still irritates me and causes concern for what we can expect in Season 4 with this writing team at the helm.

The episode itself wasn't the worse I've seen - the Tower still holds that honor - however, there were so many other things that left me wondering what the writers were thinking when they came up with this storyline.

Although I enjoyed Irresistible and thought Richard Kind played the smiling sociopath well, Lucius wasn't interesting enough for a return visit. What made Irresistible enjoyable for me was more the reactions of our SGA crew to Lucius than Lucius himself.

Kolya, on the other hand, is an interesting character and I was looking forward to seeing him again, especially after Common Ground. Irresponsible was such a let down from the events of Common Ground that I'll have to pretend that this episode doesn't exist when I watch Common Ground again.

Common sense, if not good storytelling, should have dictated that Kolya and Lucius should never be in the same episode - at least not an episode written by these writers. And, as if putting them in the same episode wasn't mind-boggling enough, I felt that these writers wrote Kolya as a secondary character to Lucius' starring role.

How can anyone who's familiar with the history of SGA write Kolya as anything but the lead guest character, especially in his first visit since Common Ground? The fact that these writers believed that the audience wanted to see Lucius dominate a storyline featuring Sheppard and Kolya's first meeting since Common Ground leads me to wonder what other head-scratching plans they have in the works for next season.

Chailyn
December 26th, 2006, 05:09 PM
The episode itself wasn't the worse I've seen - the Tower still holds that honor - however, there were so many other things that left me wondering what the writers were thinking when they came up with this storyline.

Common sense, if not good storytelling, should have dictated that Kolya and Lucius should never be in the same episode - at least not an episode written by these writers. And, as if putting them in the same episode wasn't mind-boggling enough, I felt that these writers wrote Kolya as a secondary character to Lucius' starring role.

How can anyone who's familiar with the history of SGA write Kolya as anything but the lead guest character, especially in his first visit since Common Ground? The fact that these writers believed that the audience wanted to see Lucius dominate a storyline featuring Sheppard and Kolya's first meeting since Common Ground leads me to wonder what other head-scratching plans they have in the works for next season.

ITA with everything you said. Maybe this episode just wasn't my cup of tea. I agree that it came off a little too campy. It sort of reminded me of a Xena/Hercules episode (sorry to those fans!), which, at the same time, was trying to be serious. Does anyone remember that fat, balding toga-wearing guy that used to follow Hercules around in the early seasons? Lucius is that guy, but darker, only he's being used the same way for comic effect. Sorry, I couldnt get the thought out of my head. Anyway, this one just didn't fly for me, or rather it needed to "Fly, Lucius, Fly" right off my televsion. Yeah, I know that was bad. :)

I don't know why Lucius deserved two episodes. Otherwise this has been a strong season, imo.

Ravenessa
December 26th, 2006, 10:52 PM
I liked this episode. When the team first sees Lucius, Ronan's reaction is the best. When Lucius is story-telling, seeing John's reaction about the bug, and the woman are funny. The banter between John and Lucius.

I really liked the John/Teyla arguing part. It was intresting, and I rewatched it several times. I also liked the end, that was priceless.

maxbo
December 27th, 2006, 09:17 AM
ITA with everything you said. Maybe this episode just wasn't my cup of tea. I agree that it came off a little too campy. It sort of reminded me of a Xena/Hercules episode (sorry to those fans!), which, at the same time, was trying to be serious. Does anyone remember that fat, balding toga-wearing guy that used to follow Hercules around in the early seasons? Lucius is that guy, but darker, only he's being used the same way for comic effect. Sorry, I couldnt get the thought out of my head. Anyway, this one just didn't fly for me, or rather it needed to "Fly, Lucius, Fly" right off my televsion. Yeah, I know that was bad. :)

I don't know why Lucius deserved two episodes. Otherwise this has been a strong season, imo.

I agree that Lucius seems to be modeled after that Hercules character (I can't remember his name either). I also agree that the writers screwed up because they made Lucius too dark a character to be used for comedic effect. These writers can't handle comedic episodes so I wish they would stop trying.

You're not the only one wondering why we had the *pleasure* of seeing Lucius featured in not 1, but 2, episodes. The fact that those responsible for writing this episode will be running the show next season is not reassuring.

Sweetsong
January 8th, 2007, 03:09 PM
The Hercules character you are thinking of was Salmoneus.

Adria
January 21st, 2007, 06:21 PM
this episode was great very funny not sure why everyone hates Lucius so much.

i loved that he used to shield as a offensive and defensive weapon that was cool.

and the i love the end with Lucius saying "go ahead hit me as hard as you can"... then him thriving in pain
:lol:

Lauriel
January 22nd, 2007, 05:18 AM
this episode was great very funny not sure why everyone hates Lucius so much.

i loved that he used to shield as a offensive and defensive weapon that was cool.

and the i love the end with Lucius saying "go ahead hit me as hard as you can"... then him thriving in pain
:lol:

Hehehee! The expression is 'writhing in pain'. Writhing means wriggling and squirming, and thriving means growing.

I'm pointing this out not as a criticism, but because I found the mental image so funny! :D :D :D :D

Adria
January 22nd, 2007, 05:25 AM
i was tried :o

Lauriel
January 22nd, 2007, 05:28 AM
i was tried :o

Happens to us all - like I said, I got a giggle from it. :D I was actually thinking it would make a really good fic plot, to put Sheppy up against an enemy who gets stronger when he gets hurt.. if only I could figure out how to actually have Shep defeat him... *trails off and wanders away in deep thought*

mancslad08
January 24th, 2007, 01:09 PM
Oh. Dear. God.

Awful, boring, dull, pathetic mess of an episode. The worst Atlantis episode ever made.

As though the writer's felt ONE episode with Lucius wasn't bad enough, they gave us A SECOND?? In the same season?? And this one was ten times worse.

- Boring.
- Stupid.
- Characters were walking frowns.
- 2 funny moments apart from that just cringe-worthy
- Horrible horrible acting my townspeople
- Yet another quaint village/town
- Pathetic 'action' sequences
- That speech by the female townsperson... WTF??
- Town rising up against the oppresors... give me a f-ing break.
- Worst death scene for a recurring character ever.

When the writers and actors themselves say how they didn't like the episode once they saw it in full, you have to worry.

Oh dear god, what a mess. And after last week's great one, huge disappointment.

ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

1/10

I'd love to see people defend this. But then I'm sure we'll have people LOVING IT!!!!! because of things like Ronan cracking a superhero joke or Lucius' ex wife joke.

mancslad08
January 24th, 2007, 01:10 PM
whoops, sorry, bolded for some reason.

The Great Lord Baal
January 24th, 2007, 01:13 PM
I cant agree with you more I hate lucius so much

~Benjamin~
January 24th, 2007, 02:14 PM
i dunno why everyone hates him is is annoying granted but he has style and street smarts, i thought the ending of koyla was great real wild west style , i was hoping for a firefight with ronan but that never seems to happen they always putydown there guns (unless it the wraith) i think the townspeople were kind of pathetic though

7/10

Trialia
January 24th, 2007, 02:17 PM
i dunno why everyone hates him is is annoying granted but he has style and street smarts, i thought the ending of koyla was great real wild west style , i was hoping for a firefight with ronan but that never seems to happen they always putydown there guns (unless it the wraith) i think the townspeople were kind of pathetic though

7/10
Style? No. He's sleazy as all hell. That isn't style.

mancslad08
January 24th, 2007, 02:33 PM
i dunno why everyone hates him is is annoying granted but he has style and street smarts, i thought the ending of koyla was great real wild west style , i was hoping for a firefight with ronan but that never seems to happen they always putydown there guns (unless it the wraith) i think the townspeople were kind of pathetic though

7/10

Style and street smarts? Please, he's a walking joke that the writer's spent all of 10 seconds thinking up.

Koyla, wild west style? Oh come on, it was dumb and them just lifting their guns but Shep shooting first? Great way to kill the guy who masterminded the Storm/The Eye attack.

The townspeople were awful. Typical 'townspeople' of the week by SG-1/Atlantis, they seem to pop up every other week. More lazy writing.

Lauriel
January 24th, 2007, 09:06 PM
Style and street smarts? Please, he's a walking joke that the writer's spent all of 10 seconds thinking up.

Koyla, wild west style? Oh come on, it was dumb and them just lifting their guns but Shep shooting first? Great way to kill the guy who masterminded the Storm/The Eye attack.

The townspeople were awful. Typical 'townspeople' of the week by SG-1/Atlantis, they seem to pop up every other week. More lazy writing.

Can't agree more than this (I know, I've already said it a few times on this thread.) Killing Kolya off this way, especially after CG, was the biggest letdown of the entire series. Maybe even of both series. It was this, even more than Lucius (who was bad enough) that really disappointed me with this ep. I can write off a bad ep as just one I didn't like, but to involve Kolya, who has been central in a few great eps, was an error of judgement on behalf of TPTB, IMHO.

Naonak
January 25th, 2007, 09:02 AM
I'm not going either way with this episode. I didn't think it was particularly great, although there were some funny moments, but I didn't think it was that bad either.
My only real problem is that Kolya deserved a better episode to be killed.

5/10

mancslad08
January 25th, 2007, 10:15 AM
I thought it was the worst episode of either series in the past 4 years personally. Utter garbage. Even TPTB and Joe Flanigan agreed in hindsight.

And after the awesomeness of last week's 'Echoes' a huge disappointment.

Madeleine
January 26th, 2007, 02:30 PM
Lucius hangs his mouth open. He never closes it, even when he isn't talking. How could any episode be good when it's got a slack-jawed protagonist?

Sorry, there was probably some stuff in the episode to do with Kolya or the architecture or the SFX or Shep that I could have noticed, but it's all submerged beneath the memory of this chap who hangs his mouth open. Yuk.

Matt G
January 26th, 2007, 05:12 PM
OK...this was a mental thread. Where the hell do I start?

1a. Since Irresistable, I have seen BSG deal with my own main bug issue(suicide bombing) slightly irresponsibly(see my comments on the ep in question in the BSG section) so I have some idea where the likes of Trilia are coming from now. However I still stuck with that show for the same reason that anyone who bailed on SGA post 'Irrestistable' shouldn't have done so. By doing so they missed the class that was "Sateda" and "Progeny". 'Definately' their loss.

1b. Having said that I've talked about this thread and the complaints made with other Gaters(both male and female) who are either not on GW or haven't posted on this this. Their take on Lucius's earlier actions? "Naah...not rape". And it's not what came to mind here either till I read the relevant threads.

2. Nice moment about superheroes at the start.

3. Lucius did say that he'd got "run out of town" but the problem is, as others have said, Atlantis can't lock up every dodgy geezer in the Pegasus galaxy and every village in the galaxy probably has bigger fish to fry - like the threat of the Wraith!

4. Why the hell did they have to throw Kolya into an ep like this, much less (probably, though fingers crossed)kill him off! One of the coolest bad guys in Atlantis and his last ep has him sharing billing with what has to be the biggest mistake of S3.

5. I'm pretty sure I saw some "three Amigos" moments in there as well with the villagers being encouraged to stand up for themselves.

5. Ken, if you turn up again any time soon, for what it's worth please forward the following to M+M as a fan's advice for S4.

I know you didn't expect to stir up a hornets next with Lucius. I know you were just firing off a three-pointer. But you airballed. Badly.

a. Comedy epidoes don't seem to work as well for Atlantis as they did for SG1 in it's prime. As a result the two comedy episodes involving Lucius were amongst the weakest of the season so far(Irresponsible was the better of the two but Phantoms still blew it into dust).

b. Given the limited gain you got out of the character in terms of episode quality, Lucius was NOT worth the offense caused for whatever reason.

I don't want to see him ever again!

mancslad08
January 26th, 2007, 06:32 PM
If D&D bring Lucius in one more time to Atlantis I'm not watching anymore.

If they give us another pathetic, pure garbage episode like Irresponsible again I'm not watching anymore.

Lauriel
January 27th, 2007, 04:09 AM
a. Comedy epidoes don't seem to work as well for Atlantis as they did for SG1 in it's prime. As a result the two comedy episodes involving Lucius were amongst the weakest of the season so far(Irresponsible was the better of the two but Phantoms still blew it into dust).


You're right there, IMHO. Straight comedy shows don't work for Atlantis. The humour that works best is the snark and light scenes inbetween the action, the ones that break the tension.

EG: CG was a dark and tense ep, but Rodney's line "He's younger than he was before" was funny because it relieved the tension.

I do hope TPTB have noticed this, because we could do without eps such as The Tower, Irrisistable and Irresponsible.

Keep the humour, but don't forsake the other story elements for it. :)

obsessed1
January 27th, 2007, 11:19 AM
whoops, sorry, bolded for some reason.
you obviously felt strongly. Bold away :D

I agree. It really was a bad episode......*shudders*

obsessed1
January 27th, 2007, 11:20 AM
You're right there, IMHO. Straight comedy shows don't work for Atlantis. The humour that works best is the snark and light scenes inbetween the action, the ones that break the tension.

EG: CG was a dark and tense ep, but Rodney's line "He's younger than he was before" was funny because it relieved the tension.

I do hope TPTB have noticed this, because we could do without eps such as The Tower, Irrisistable and Irresponsible.

Keep the humour, but don't forsake the other story elements for it. :)
all of the darker episodes have worked alot better imo. Phantoms, Common ground, Echoes.........have all had a much better feel to them. Outright humourous episodes just never seem to work and I guess thats the bit of sg1 they try to push on Atlantis. Atlantis should be darker, more serious, with the quips within that.

m_wendy_r
January 30th, 2007, 11:05 AM
This episode did nothing for me. :(

I was dissapointed when I saw Lucius because I didn't like the first one with him in. I recently saw Richard Kind on another TV show and he was fantastic so clearly it's not the acting.

My attention finally peaked when Shepherd shot Koyla. Thank goodness he's gone and the scene was well played out but considering that's at the end of the episode I was bored throughout and it was predictable too.

I knew the scene where the former soldiers try to raid the village was a set-up the moment they all turned up and it just didn't work for me. :rolleyes:

Hopefully next week will be better. My fingers are crossed.

Wendy
Hugs :)

mancslad08
January 30th, 2007, 02:29 PM
This episode should be burned/deleted and never shown to anyone ever again.

beale947
February 1st, 2007, 04:04 AM
This episode should be burned/deleted and never shown to anyone ever again.

You seem to hate every new episode :P

And one of the things brought up earier in this thread about the Personal shield.
The one Rodney found, he said it was a protype. So thats why it was so poorly designed. However the one Lucius had, possibaly wasn't (the ancients fixed all the 'its going to kill me by stopping me eating and drinking' stuff) and the thing about it only working on one peson because of the 'imprint' it leaves on it, was most propaly fixed aswell.

mancslad08
February 1st, 2007, 04:15 AM
Not true at all. I hate what SG-1 has become these past few years but both that series and particularly Atlantis this year has had some excellent episodes. Echoes for instance was fantastic. SG-1 seems to be 50:50 garbage/excellent ratio.

Irresponsible on the other hand could possibly claim the title of worst episode of Stargate (both series) ever made.

bnza8
February 12th, 2007, 05:24 PM
noob here.

someone may have said this before but i cant find it anywhere.

how does Lucious wear the ancient shield device thing? he did say that he go someone else that had the gene to activate it first and then he can use it whenever he wants but in the second episode of the first season. it said that the shield makes an imprint on the wearer meaning it wouldnt work on anyone else.

is that a flaw or its just one of my misunderstandings?

PG15
February 12th, 2007, 06:20 PM
It's a flaw.

But, it can be explained away by saying that he had a different "model" of the shield device.

rosey_angel
April 21st, 2007, 02:14 AM
i liked this ep much better than Irresistable.

it was cool when most of the team were talking about their heroes, shows a lot about themselves, more team bonding moments we've been told are coming.

i like that it raised an interesting point, relying too much on one person to control your life.

killing kolya! i wish that didn't happen. i like the genii, and laydon, and it seems that the tension with the genii happens with kolya. hopefully we'll see a new power struggle for kolya's place?

garhkal
April 23rd, 2007, 12:53 PM
But is he realy dead?? I hope not. He looked a little 'fatter' than normal, which could have ment he had a bp vest under his clothing..

Major Tyler
April 23rd, 2007, 01:09 PM
But is he realy dead?? I hope not. He looked a little 'fatter' than normal, which could have ment he had a bp vest under his clothing..A British Petroleum vest? Wouldn't it have exploded?

garhkal
April 24th, 2007, 01:54 PM
A British Petroleum vest? Wouldn't it have exploded?

bullet proof..

rosey_angel
April 25th, 2007, 10:34 PM
But is he realy dead?? I hope not. He looked a little 'fatter' than normal, which could have ment he had a bp vest under his clothing..

i thought of this, but i think they would have said something about it at the end of the ep. the last couple of times he made a point in letting kolya know he didn't kill him. this time there was nothing

Kribby
April 27th, 2007, 06:37 PM
This episode is so idiotic. Why is Lucius being dunked in water? In 'Hide and Seek', McKay couldn't even drink coffee.

markaudette
April 27th, 2007, 06:49 PM
I swear this set location looks a lot like a location that was used for an SG-1 episode some years back.

I remember there was a brick wall that was a hologram, I think...

Bobthespirit
April 27th, 2007, 06:54 PM
I wasn't even willing to watch this one.

I can't believe they brought back the date-rapist.

Archaeis
April 27th, 2007, 06:54 PM
It would have had a better ending if Shephard came back as the Daedalus descended over the town and a hundred marines beamed in, decimating Kolya's troops.

sugarshaker
April 27th, 2007, 06:55 PM
I swear this set location looks a lot like a location that was used for an SG-1 episode some years back.

I remember there was a brick wall that was a hologram, I think...

I think it was Revisions. I was surprised that they brought Lucius back for another episode because I think a lot of people didn't care for the last one. I found it to be pretty disappointing. :S

markaudette
April 27th, 2007, 07:00 PM
Thanks, sugarshaker.

mlarke
April 27th, 2007, 07:04 PM
I just watched this episode, granted, i was drinking a lot guinness and eating some wings, but all of you guys that said this was such an awful episode are nuts. I liked the fact that it didn't endanger the city at all. I know i am in the minority here, but i kinda dig the Lucious character. He makes me laugh. and the dresses were phenomenal.

prion
April 27th, 2007, 07:08 PM
watching it a second time (having seen it off Canadian DVD), I must say I dislike Lucius even more. Smarmy, self-centered, abandon-everybody-to-save-his-own-worthless hide. The only way he should remotely come back for another episode is when he goes SPLAT on the gate's iris...

prion
April 27th, 2007, 07:13 PM
But is he realy dead?? I hope not. He looked a little 'fatter' than normal, which could have ment he had a bp vest under his clothing..

Well, sorry to say, but folks do tend to pack on weight too ;)

Major_Griff
April 27th, 2007, 07:33 PM
Liked the episode alot. Its a shame that the had to kill of Kolya, but I guess it had to be done. I loved the line in the begining when Ronan was talking about his hero. "Killed twelve guys with his bair hands. And he was a real funny guy, too." I was dying from laughter after that.

cyren2132
April 27th, 2007, 07:37 PM
What an unsatisfying way for Kolya to go. I generally rank on the high side, but this episode got a three from me.

the fifth man
April 27th, 2007, 07:49 PM
I actually didn't mind this episode. I found quite a few parts very funny and entertaining.:) Not a total loss IMO. Definitely not the best this season either though.

Jackie
April 27th, 2007, 09:07 PM
Lately, I have liked SGA eps over SG-1. However, tonights was too campy even for me. The "high noon" scene at the end could have been cut and burned. The best part of tonights show was the very last line Lucius had: "Go ahead. kick me as hard as you can." (boy kicks) "Ouch!"

The rest of the ep was just--irresponsible.

Lauriel
April 27th, 2007, 09:19 PM
I just watched this episode, granted, i was drinking a lot guinness and eating some wings, but all of you guys that said this was such an awful episode are nuts. I liked the fact that it didn't endanger the city at all. I know i am in the minority here, but i kinda dig the Lucious character. He makes me laugh. and the dresses were phenomenal.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, but something to watch when you're drunk and want to ogle women is not what I'm looking for in a SciFi show. :D


I actually didn't mind this episode. I found quite a few parts very funny and entertaining.:) Not a total loss IMO. Definitely not the best this season either though.
True, as much as I disliked this ep, there were some good moments in it as well.

Orion's Star
April 27th, 2007, 10:25 PM
This episode was better than "Irresistable" but that is like saying getting kicked in the shin over and over again is better than getting kicked in the...well, you know (Just ask Lucius).

The set-up was fairly ridiculous, as was the conclusion. Killing Koyla off like that was just unnecessary. He was pretty much the only thing that made the Genii interesting. As for Lucius's return, it was about what I expected. I kept waiting for Ronon to hurt Lucius, was hoping for it, and you could tell that Ronon was just chomping at the bit for the opportunity. I was sad he never got the chance. I hope Lucius never shows up again.

That speech by the girl was absolutely atrocius. Not only was it badly delivered (her acting sucked) but the dialogue was just terrible. I actually laughed out loud halfway through.

The best part of the episode was the relatively subtle Princess Bride reference (at least I saw it as one) where Lucius was throwing out ideas to Sheppard for how to save the town and he mentioned getting a big blanket, sitting on each other shoulders, and acting like a giant.

xfkirsten
April 27th, 2007, 11:43 PM
The best part of the episode was the relatively subtle Princess Bride reference (at least I saw it as one) where Lucius was throwing out ideas to Sheppard for how to save the town and he mentioned getting a big blanket, sitting on each other shoulders, and acting like a giant.

Ah, glad I wasn't the only one who had a Dread Pirate Roberts moment! :D

LoneStar1836
April 28th, 2007, 12:05 AM
Worst.Second Worst. Episode. To Date. :mckay:


And I halfway liked "Irresistible" as long as I didn't think too deeply about it.....


Eh, I forgot about "The Long Goodbye".... :rolleyes:

Redhooks
April 28th, 2007, 12:20 AM
This episode was like most of the other crap on TV today, not something I expected on SGA. The only interesting part to me was the part where Sheppard was working his way out of town back to the gate and Lucius finds him. I noticed for the first time that I can remember seeing a silencer on a P90. I have been wondering why nobody ever had one? Most Special Forces teams use them so they won't alert the enemy. But then, like magic, it was off again. Somebody wasn't thinking in the continuity part of the shoot, IMHO. I don't blame Richard Kind for Lucius, it was the writers. I usually find his work to be pretty good. He didn't have much to work with.

GateTrek2004
April 28th, 2007, 02:32 AM
I swear this set location looks a lot like a location that was used for an SG-1 episode some years back.

I remember there was a brick wall that was a hologram, I think...

Listening to the Commentaires on ATL Seasons 1 and 2 DVD's they do in fact use SG-1 Sets to save money!!!

GateTrek2004
April 28th, 2007, 02:36 AM
To me personally, Out of ALL the ATL episodes so far, this one sucked! it was the most boring 45 min! i personally never liked Lucious Lavin and WTF they Killed Koyla!!! i thought his character was great! He was the character that to Loved to Hate! Hopefully It will pick up Next week.

Platschu
April 28th, 2007, 02:37 AM
The Dutch village was the same in 7x05 Revisions too. ;)

GateTrek2004
April 28th, 2007, 02:39 AM
The Dutch village was the same in 7x05 Revisions too. ;)

Thats the way ATL/SG-1 saves money! uses the same sets for different places.

expendable_crewman
April 28th, 2007, 04:28 AM
This episode is so idiotic. Why is Lucius being dunked in water? In 'Hide and Seek', McKay couldn't even drink coffee.LL gets dunked in water to cut off his air supply. They actualy mention the "air thing" in the episode. They also show that he doesn't get wet, although my take on LL's toy was thank God the Ancients designed a PersonalShield V.2.0 because McKay's version was not user friendly. I hope we see what the PS.3.0 does one day.

As for the ep, fortunately for me, the ep didn't cut against my grain in any way, shape, or form. I hate it when that happens (something cuts across the grain) while I'm watching TV. Out of 60 episodes, Atlantis has only done that for me once. Actually, it wasn't Atlantis, per se, but a mish-mash of my preferences, which I indulge liberally while taking in what I call entertainment.

This ep was funny. I liked it pretty much across the board. And the part or parts I didn't like would read too nitpicky-ish to post in a forum.

ancientaction
April 28th, 2007, 05:58 AM
errr.. ok...

3/10 in my book....

problems... they didn't quite explain .. enough... how Lucious was able to control the shield.

the Genti rouges were weak, they are too pig headed to do a 'play' for extra cash. the Genti i know, would steal it..

other issues as well, don't want to watch it again to point them out.

------------

<mod snip>

maxbo
April 28th, 2007, 06:27 AM
My dislike for this episode surpasses my dislike for The Tower. Although I enjoyed Irresistible, Irresponsible just contained too many elements that I didn't find appealing. The first is that there was too much Lucious. And, the main problem is that Kolya was dragged into this mess and to add insult to injury he was treated as a supporting character to Lucious' starring role.

Ohh, the indignity of it all!

Skydiver
April 28th, 2007, 06:57 AM
ladies and gents...you can like or dislike these folks' work to your hearts' content...but you CANNOT bash them. critique the work all you want but leave the people out of it.

petemoretti
April 28th, 2007, 07:16 AM
What really surprised me was the fact that the writers didn't seem to think that Lucius was actually a bad character, a villain !? i'm re-watching SG-1 S1 atm and I keep comparing him with Sam's ex-fiancee Jonas Hanson which in "First Commandment" which thought himself as a GOD, and even though he had to die at the end, Sam (the moral voice) seemed to take it pretty bad...

YappiChick
April 28th, 2007, 08:23 AM
You *might* like this episode if you like swiss cheese, there are that many plot holes in it. The sheild works when someone kicks him but not when the girls are giving him a foot massage? About the fact the line of Rodney's: "We'll be back in the Jumper in no time." Huh? There was no jumper there! They walked there, remember? And if the implication is that Sheppard would return to them with a jumper in tow, I would think Rodney would be thinking about the dozens of Marines that would accompany Sheppard to save them. And let's not get into the whole discrepancy issue between his and Rodney's personal sheild. (I think that has been brought up already. ;) )Personally I didn't have a problem with Irresistible (much) but this one will go in the "Once was enough" category.

I'm wishing it was next Friday already. :D

Infernorhythm
April 28th, 2007, 10:12 AM
Better then the Tower, and definitely better then some other eps, but by far not the best. Granted, I've seen far worse episodes on SG-1, but compared to many of the other brilliant Season 3 episodes (Common Ground, Phantoms, The Return, etc), it felt lacking The team interaction and the Genii carry the whole episode.

The Good

-The hero discussion. Ronon's hero being "a really funny guy too" was brilliant, sent me laughing big time.
-Richard Kind. His character sucked, but I'm a Spin City fan, so he was hilarious.
-Cowen's ex guards. The aftermath of Ladon's takeover was a great thing that was never really explored.
-Kolya. No matter the quality of the script, Robert Davi gives his character a brilliant menace that few shows can ever match (I'm looking at you BSG).
-Sheppard's reaction to seeing Kolya. He really was adamant about his promise to kill Kolya from Common Ground.
-Kolya vs. Shep. Short, surrounded by a huge comic episode, but wonderfully handled.

The Bad
-Lucius. I never saw Irrestitable, so this was my first taste of him. Leave him go, he's as bad as the SG-1 robot guy. Richard Kind's good, but this guy was terrible.
-The whole comedic tone of the episode. I prefer the darker episodes with witty dialogue, not campy episodes.
-The waste of Kolya. Sure, Davi and Flannigan played it great, it just felt like a waste of a good character. Obviously we can't have him trying to overthrow Ladon for ten times in a row, but if you're going to kill him off, do it in a better story.
-Are the Wraith still in this show? I haven't seen them since the season opener.

To quote Dom DeLouise, "nice, not thrilling, but nice". Shame we lost a good villain.

MarshAngel
April 28th, 2007, 10:44 AM
This episode was better than "Irresistable" but that is like saying getting kicked in the shin over and over again is better than getting kicked in the...well, you know (Just ask Lucius).

The set-up was fairly ridiculous, as was the conclusion. Killing Koyla off like that was just unnecessary. He was pretty much the only thing that made the Genii interesting. As for Lucius's return, it was about what I expected. I kept waiting for Ronon to hurt Lucius, was hoping for it, and you could tell that Ronon was just chomping at the bit for the opportunity. I was sad he never got the chance. I hope Lucius never shows up again.

That speech by the girl was absolutely atrocius. Not only was it badly delivered (her acting sucked) but the dialogue was just terrible. I actually laughed out loud halfway through.

The best part of the episode was the relatively subtle Princess Bride reference (at least I saw it as one) where Lucius was throwing out ideas to Sheppard for how to save the town and he mentioned getting a big blanket, sitting on each other shoulders, and acting like a giant.

I couldn't agree more. I despise Lucius. When Kolya threatened to bury him alive, I was really looking forward to it...pity. I hope this is the last episode he's ever in.

What I just couldn't understand was, after they tried to convince the village idiot the first time around that Lucius was a fraud, why didn't they just go home? What benefits were there to staying where they were neither wanted or needed? I might have missed something at the start but I don't understand why they feel personally responsible for every hick village of fools in Pegasus.

Mitchell82
April 28th, 2007, 08:05 PM
I think this is one of the most underaprciated epsides, well they both are IMO. This one is better than Irresistable, and IMO a very good story involving the genii. As much as I love Koyla and hope he somehow comes back I do feel that the "western" showdown between Koyla and Shep was very fitting to their characters. IMO this is a good decent episode about 7.5/10.

Kliggins
April 28th, 2007, 08:24 PM
What a waste to kill Kolya. :(

morjana
April 29th, 2007, 05:09 AM
McKay's hero is Batman?

Oh, they're using the Fantasy Gardens location that SG-1 filmed "Revisions" in.

Uh oh, Lucius Luvin (Richard Kind) is back.

So, Lucius has perused all the mission reports. And the adventures John and team have been through now become his stories he tells the villagers.

"I can't be vinced!"

Schnitzel!

Hey, the actor portraying Fortrum (the one with the broken wrist) looks familiar…Oh, that's why. He was Agent Devlin in "Smoke and Mirrors."

Okay, while the ladies are foot massaging Lucius…is his shield on? Because there's no indication they're having problems getting to his feet.

And…shoot out in Fantasy Gardens.

Kolya bye-bye!

And we're gating home.

Next week: That was Zen, this is Tao -- the "Tao of Rodney!"


Morjana

Saul Tigh
April 29th, 2007, 06:00 AM
i love the ending (Lucius thinking the sheild is still on)

hit me with you're best shot ....ow ow ow that hurt :lol:

Groove
April 29th, 2007, 09:39 AM
Mediocre episode and recently I've noticed a few plot holes in both SG1 and Atlantis. In this one:

1) Lucius was injected by Carson. Therefore a needle passed through the shield.

2) Oh, come on! When at gunpoint in the beginning, the team could have taken out the invaders but then the leader holds someone at gunpoint. The leader could have done the same with Lucius. I know it was a set up, but they should have showed her out of it or something, and it's not easy to just beat everyone up and save the hostage.

3) Rodney wasn't able to eat or drink before when he had a personal shield - Lucius was dunked water.

4) Just the very notion of someone grabbing him is silly, why doesn't he keep fighting (as he can harm them but not vice-versa) so they didn't get a chance to be dunked anyway?

5) Charging the personal shield - the notion that it can't be charged or reverse engineered is silly. Ever since Rodney got one they should have been working on it.

Oh, and I just knew that it'd die at some crucial point; that is, when John was being shot at.

MarshAngel
April 29th, 2007, 12:53 PM
3) Rodney wasn't able to eat or drink before when he had a personal shield - Lucius was dunked water.


Or better yet... if they could hold on to him, against his will, to dunk him. What was stopping them from merely removing the device?

prion
April 29th, 2007, 01:05 PM
This seems to be a major flaw in tv shows that do these shoot-out scenes, which makes me think of the Moldavian Massacre back on DYNASTY way back when.

Kolya's men are on either side of Sheppard when they open fire. Please, NOBODY is that good of a shot with all the bullets flying not to miss SHep and have a bullet zing by and nail somebody else.

And then when Shep shoots Kolya (wow, talk about trust), his team is right behind Kolya. Good thing Kolya had put on some weight as if it had gone through.... hm, looks like it would have hit Ronon.

retiredat44
April 29th, 2007, 02:58 PM
The Koyla and Sheppard ending was Bogus. I wanted desperately to see Koyla get shafted badly with some other meanies, the replicators, the Wraith, or something really really bad. Maybe he didn't die, they didn't say he did.
Did they? Did anyone on the show? :sheppard: :(

rarocks24
April 29th, 2007, 03:25 PM
Irresponsible was what the writers of Irresistable were.

That ending with Sheppard shooting Kolya was the gheyist thing evuh...I cringed at the 4th grade acting involved in that. The episode wasn't good at all, no offense towards any of the actors, it was just how the characters were written.

A better ending would have been to leave him on that planet with the Wraith from Common Ground. Maybe a camera or two, the last scene of the episode is Kolya begging.

ghipszky
April 29th, 2007, 07:35 PM
This is my first post and it may be off topic. I would like to know where there village scenes were filmed.
Ghipszky

GateTrek2004
May 1st, 2007, 01:32 AM
What a waste to kill Kolya. :(

Think of Teal'c's Voice Saying This: :indeed:

taenhago
May 3rd, 2007, 07:58 AM
I could not agree more; the only good thing was finally killing off Koyla, although they should have driven a stake through his heart.

The whole episode was so badly written as to be incomprehensible, boring, and just silly.

All these cast changes will kill the show anyway. I have seen the entire season and trust me; there will be worst episodes than this one.

Also one great Episode (Tao of Rodney) is brilliant.

The season ender is a real disaster and shows where they are going:

IMOP

Weir is disgusted and she will leave (this way the "writers" don't look as bad as just kicking her off)

Ronan realizes he contributes nothing to the team

Talia is almost invisible

Way too much bad military decisions a Lt. would not make much less a commander of a ship.

Military will run Atlantis like SG1

Joe looks like he wants to be somewhere else all together,

Sorry, needed a good rant, I loved Atlantis, but we will not see a season four

Madeleine
May 3rd, 2007, 09:53 PM
This is my first post and it may be off topic. I would like to know where there village scenes were filmed.
Ghipszky

I don't know :o but I do know that it was the same place as a s7 SG-1 ep called Revisions. It's some town or village in Canada - you probably guessed that though :o:o

PG15
May 3rd, 2007, 09:55 PM
It's a place called "Fantasy Gardens".

That's all I know.

Groove
May 7th, 2007, 01:39 PM
I could not agree more; the only good thing was finally killing off Koyla, although they should have driven a stake through his heart.No, he was deserving of a proper death in a proper episode - one that amounted to something, not something attempting 'comedy value'.

Alexandra
August 3rd, 2007, 12:51 AM
I only have a few words to say about this ep: I didn't like it!
It was like kids play, no actual plot, no development, no important information we gain, nothig.
I have nothing against the actors, though.

squeakytoad
August 8th, 2007, 07:46 AM
That's how Koyla dies? That?


Wow. Talk about disappointing and pathetic.

MmmmMcKAy
September 24th, 2007, 09:01 AM
Yikes! Pretty lame episode. There's no feeling of suspense or impending doom at all.

And why do we have to see so much of the women's huge breasts spilling out of those ridiculous dresses? Come on!!!!!

The little quick draw Sheppard ending was dumb too. It was no The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, that's for sure. The mighty Kolya fell pretty far, didn't he?

Trek_Girl42
September 24th, 2007, 09:37 AM
Yikes! Pretty lame episode. There's no feeling of suspense or impending doom at all.

And why do we have to see so much of the women's huge breasts spilling out of those ridiculous dresses? Come on!!!!!

The little quick draw Sheppard ending was dumb too. It was no The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, that's for sure. The mighty Kolya fell pretty far, didn't he?
No kidding. My reaction was "that's it?" That was a pathetic way to kill off a popular villain.

And also, seriously, why are villagers always so stupid and simple? These people were so pathetically simple, and beyond mornonic, I really didn't care about whether they lived or not. You'd expect at least someone to have a brain.

And those dresses.....villagers also apparently love to show off their boobs. It must a be a requirement of being a woman and living in a village. Not to mention that woman was also a moron. The guy disgusted her, but he "saves" the village and suddenly she's in his lap? *shakes head* And apparently she's the "smart" one. :rolleyes:

Not to mention the "r" word still didn't come up. Someone should have been outraged when Lucious mentioned that those women in "Irresponsible" were drugged. They looked no more that disgruntled. :(

Lauriel
September 27th, 2007, 10:43 PM
No kidding. My reaction was "that's it?" That was a pathetic way to kill off a popular villain.

And also, seriously, why are villagers always so stupid and simple? These people were so pathetically simple, and beyond mornonic, I really didn't care about whether they lived or not. You'd expect at least someone to have a brain.

And those dresses.....villagers also apparently love to show off their boobs. It must a be a requirement of being a woman and living in a village. Not to mention that woman was also a moron. The guy disgusted her, but he "saves" the village and suddenly she's in his lap? *shakes head* And apparently she's the "smart" one. :rolleyes:

Not to mention the "r" word still didn't come up. Someone should have been outraged when Lucious mentioned that those women in "Irresponsible" were drugged. They looked no more that disgruntled. :(

Agreed with everything you said. I was so disappointed with them killing off Kolya like that. After CG, the next meeting with Kolya had so much potential, and they gave us that cheesy western ripoff? Ack.

And I'm totally with you on the villagers, still, I guess they'd have to be that stupid to worship Lucius like that - even after proof had been waved in their faces.

The worst part about this ep is that it really had potential, in so many areas, and it just didn't come close to any of them. :(

Trek_Girl42
September 27th, 2007, 11:50 PM
Agreed with everything you said. I was so disappointed with them killing off Kolya like that. After CG, the next meeting with Kolya had so much potential, and they gave us that cheesy western ripoff? Ack.

And I'm totally with you on the villagers, still, I guess they'd have to be that stupid to worship Lucius like that - even after proof had been waved in their faces.

The worst part about this ep is that it really had potential, in so many areas, and it just didn't come close to any of them. :(
That quick draw came out of nowhere- it was like at the last minute they couldn't decide how to kill Kolya and settled for that.....might have worked in a different ep on a different bad guy, but not here. A complete anti-climax to the Genii storyline. :(

Lord Iceman
November 17th, 2007, 08:06 PM
This sort of attitude is not welcome here.
The result is that every now and again, a thread will have a lot of criticism in it. Anyone who can't cope with that (lurkers, members, whoever) is free to leave. But NOT to tell people how they can think or how they can post. That's rude and uncalled for.


Madeleine
GateWorld Moderator

Isn't what you did then telling ME what to do? If you say everyone is entitled to their own opinion, than doesn't that include me as well? Or does it not when it serves your personal interests and agendas.

And come to think of it, I never once told anyone what to do, I just said that their negativity and personal attacks on people who used to blog here ruin it for us who appreciate their time.

Additionally, I don't think I did anything rude or uncalled for.

Chrisisall
February 29th, 2008, 01:35 PM
That quick draw came out of nowhere- it was like at the last minute they couldn't decide how to kill Kolya and settled for that.....might have worked in a different ep on a different bad guy, but not here. A complete anti-climax to the Genii storyline. :(
Again, I liked it. I guess I'm fast joining a camp that says SG:A can do no wrong...even Irresistable wasn't that bad IMO.

But something about Carson bugs me...:mckay:

Newbieisall

Shipperahoy
February 29th, 2008, 05:32 PM
Isn't what you did then telling ME what to do? If you say everyone is entitled to their own opinion, than doesn't that include me as well? Or does it not when it serves your personal interests and agendas.

And come to think of it, I never once told anyone what to do, I just said that their negativity and personal attacks on people who used to blog here ruin it for us who appreciate their time.

Additionally, I don't think I did anything rude or uncalled for.

If you have issues with a moderator decision then please take it to PM instead of derailing the thread further. Thank you.

PrioroftheOri
March 19th, 2008, 12:46 PM
i liked this episode pretty well, but i also thought that the western thing was pretty lame. oh well, at least kolya is dead, i hated him.

leeman15251
April 6th, 2008, 03:15 PM
2. Wasn't it mentioned in Hide and Seek that this Ancient device can only be used by one person after it was initialized? Clearly not the case in this ep. (TPTB will probably just say that this device was just another version.)

I was thought the same thing.

BackStageJim
May 1st, 2008, 08:05 AM
what location was this (and 303) filmed.
It appeared to be same 'town' that was in SG1 where the force field kept getting smaller as the power darined and the people 'forgot' things.

Lianne
May 5th, 2008, 09:18 AM
I expected very little from thsi episode (still had in mind what kind of ep Irresistible was), and ...unfortunately, it didnt prove wrong my initial feeling.
Well, that may be mostly due to the fact that I really don´t like the whole Genii arc, Lucius arc, and Dumb medieval villagers arc, but we (or they) finally got to kill off Kolya, and finally this was the last Lucius ep.:mckay:

dosed150
September 11th, 2008, 04:43 PM
i can't believe they thought one lucius ep was a good idea but two what where they thinking

jelgate
September 11th, 2008, 06:41 PM
To be fair Irresponsible had been filmed before the fan's reaction of Irresitable had been seen

Tekanako
September 12th, 2008, 06:47 AM
"come on kick me... ohh my god ^@$**&#@!$" that bits a classic and Colya gets killed by sheppard... revenge at last :sheppardanime23:

Orion25
October 4th, 2008, 04:52 AM
I felt the same way as Ronon when I found it was Lucius again. I was wondering what gimmick this guy has now in his sleeve that the towns people were completely taken by it. So, a personal shield eh. I was also confused after watching Lucius got dunked into the well. I thought when you have the personal shield, you can't eat or drink while wearing it. Partial shielding in parts of his body? How would the Genii be able to push Lucius head into the well too, in the first place? They should have sent Lucius half buried in a grave with a Genii special net wrapped around the guy. I would have bought it. Lucius would die of suffocation eventually and I don't think the shield can hold air like a bubble. I wonder who was the person Lucius tracked down to have possessed the ATA gene. Beckett could followed this up and demanded for the gate's address where he found this individual. It would be possible this person with a ATA gene might be from technological advance society and has become a refugee or his planet could have a ZPM and some ancient devices left behind. But I guess, it also doesn't matter too. Still, it can be another wealth of stories to use.

The showdown between Kolya and Sheppard was ok but then how could Sheppard use the personal sheild? *sigh* Kolya's so bent and killing Sheppard's now his one and only goal in his life.

Automission
February 23rd, 2009, 05:55 AM
Am I the only one confused how the shield generator worked, if at all? It not only worked for two people, but seemed to defy all logic. At the beginning of the episode Carson draws some of Lucius blood, but then shortly after he stands up and lets a pallet of stuff fall on him, the shield protecting him.
We were led to believe it is totally impenetrable when on, so that makes no sense. And at the end of the episode when its out of power, Lucius sticks it to his chest, but it wouldn't hold when there's no power, so again how did that happen? Further more, he said he found a person with the ATA gene to initialise the device.

I thought in the first episode we saw him in he got given the Gene therapy by Carson so he could fly a puddle jumper? It's like the person who wrote this episode knew nothing of continuity.

Reiko
February 23rd, 2009, 07:00 PM
It's like the person who wrote this episode knew nothing of continuity.

That would be Joe Mallozzi. The same guy who is now was in charge of S4 and S5 of Atlantis. ;)

But I agree. This episode is bad on so many levels. It was also a complete waste of Kolya and a complete waste of possible Kolya-death so I'm not even going to go there.

The good things: Shep sucking wheat, Elizabeth in the beginning, the jail cell scene because they're all cute there, and the Carson/Teyla at the end. Oh and maybe Teyla in the tree.

Butlersgate
March 5th, 2009, 05:48 AM
Lucius would die of suffocation eventually and I don't think the shield can hold air like a bubble.

yeah and so why would he be able to breathe underneath water? :P the head in the water works.

JediKnutt
April 21st, 2009, 04:15 PM
So, Rodney couldn't eat or drink because of the shield and bullets couldn't hurt Lucius, but he can be grabbed and held underwater possibly drowning? Stupid. And yet he survives an explosion right at his ankles. I was pretty sick of Lucius after one episode. Pretty sick of Kolya too. Sheppard told him he'd shoot him on site...he should have just done that and then dealt with the Genii.

major davis
May 15th, 2009, 02:10 PM
So, Rodney couldn't eat or drink because of the shield and bullets couldn't hurt Lucius, but he can be grabbed and held underwater possibly drowning? Stupid. And yet he survives an explosion right at his ankles. I was pretty sick of Lucius after one episode. Pretty sick of Kolya too. Sheppard told him he'd shoot him on site...he should have just done that and then dealt with the Genii.

Unfortunately, it would not make for a fun episode.
And the thing is he would not be able to access air under water.

major davis
May 15th, 2009, 02:11 PM
Good episode

7/10

escyos
June 5th, 2009, 01:25 AM
i dont care what anyone says this was one of the most hilarious episodes in atlantis

albatross
March 31st, 2010, 03:16 PM
When the Genii "ruffians" first entered it seemed that some extras from the Firefly set had wandered through by mistake. Sadly the rest of the episode demonstrated that no-one can pull off space-western with the same aplomb as Whedon. I expected Kolya's exit to be more dramatic, it felt like his death was written into the end of this episode hastily because the actor wanted to leave or something.

Also, I agree with all the posters who've pointed out the inconsistencies regarding the shield device. Most of the plotholes with technology in SG are really complicated and you have to be super alert to spot them, but these ones were so basic I wondered if the writers had even bothered to watch 'Hide & Seek'.

As a plus, I enjoyed everyone stepping in front of McKay to take the bullet for him. They love him really.

Gamma626
April 12th, 2010, 10:43 PM
When the Genii "ruffians" first entered it seemed that some extras from the Firefly set had wandered through by mistake. Sadly the rest of the episode demonstrated that no-one can pull off space-western with the same aplomb as Whedon. I expected Kolya's exit to be more dramatic, it felt like his death was written into the end of this episode hastily because the actor wanted to leave or something.

Also, I agree with all the posters who've pointed out the inconsistencies regarding the shield device. Most of the plotholes with technology in SG are really complicated and you have to be super alert to spot them, but these ones were so basic I wondered if the writers had even bothered to watch 'Hide & Seek'.

As a plus, I enjoyed everyone stepping in front of McKay to take the bullet for him. They love him really.

I thought the same thing about the costumes. I saw it and said "No way! SG/Firefly cross over? Hey... Where's Mal at? AWWW!"

rushy
June 30th, 2010, 01:55 AM
When I saw Lucius Lavin I was like...oh no. My nightmares have come true!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

Ragitsu
July 9th, 2010, 12:06 AM
I too thought what Lucius did to those woman was basically rape.

mrscopterdoc
September 4th, 2010, 02:43 PM
Lucius is not one of my favorite charactors, but I like this episode. Love the obscure Back to the Future and Princess Bride reference :P

maneth
January 22nd, 2011, 12:24 PM
Didn't like seeing Lucius again, but Kolya was cool. Of course, Im glad he finally got what he deserved.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 17th, 2012, 04:32 PM
I just finished watching the episode, it was pretty good, better than "Irresistible." I'm sad Kolya got killed off, however, I also happy Kolya got killed off because Shep was going to get him eventually. I give it a ***

I really hope Richard Kind returns next season, Lucius Lavin is a very interesting character.

Compared to the front 10 of Season 3, the back 10 aren't as good, but I have hope that the back 10 will be as good as the front 10.
I downgrade it to **. If only the set had actually looked more western-like, it might have been better.

I noticed Neal had is his first music credit in this episode.

Monday, Rodney becomes way too smarter.

Lythisrose
August 17th, 2012, 04:46 PM
Joe Mallozzi's Blog entry (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/august-16-2012-blue-green-fists-of-fury-days-of-stargate-atlantis-past-irresponsible/)on this episode:

IRRESPONSIBLE (313)

To be honest, this one didn’t really pan out. For several reasons. One was the location. The episode was supposed to shoot in a place that approximated the look of an Old West town, but it was only after the script had been written that it was decided that location we had been scouting was unusable. Director Martin Wood wasn’t happy with what it offered from a visual standpoint and there was also the fact that several of the buildings were in such a state of disrepair that the production feared they were downright dangerous. And so, out of options, we ended up shooting our version of high noon in Fantasy Gardens, a bizarre theme park location that is mishmash of various architectural styles.

The location was one of many compromises that had to be made in prep.

In the showdown between Sheppard and Kolya, the two face-off – and the rest of the Atlantis gang is standing right behind Sheppard. I found it odd that anyone would stand directly behind someone in a potential shoot-out, but the cast was adamant that their characters would “back Sheppard” up. While I appreciated the sentiment, I would have argued that, in this particular instant, one would back someone up without, literally, standing behind them.

Guest stars Richard Kind and Robert Davi were, however, brilliant.

Richard Kind improvises his dialogue in the scene where Lucius walks off with Sheppard and starts pitching him ideas. We loved it so much we ended up keeping it in the script.

After the episode was shot, Robert assured me he had come up with a way to bring his character back. ”Hey,”I told him. ”This is science fiction. Nobody stays dead in scifi.” True enough. Although the character Kolya made a reappearance in Atlantis’s fifth season (sort of), there were plans to bring him back in the real – but, alas, that story never materialized.

Krisz
August 17th, 2012, 09:27 PM
I've never seen this episode, mainly due to reading about the fact that Lucius Lavin was back! Given I forced myself to watch 'Irresistable' for the re-watch I had to watch this I guess.

I was actually surprised to find that it was not as bad as I'd imagined it would be, based on that other episode! Whilst Lavin was still his obnoxious desperate to be loved, be centre of attention self, he actually had some redeeming moments. He decided to stay and help Sheppard to free the people of the town.

The showdown between Koyla and Sheppard was intriguing, in that for the first time there was no hanging about with moral issues on what Sheppard intended to do. He shot the man without hesitation!!

It was interesting to read about what Joe M said about how they wanted it as more of a western style. I guess the place he talks about that was "dilapidated and dangerous" would be 'Bordertown'. This is a western town built in the late 1980's for a short lived TV series of the same name. As it was used as location for a couple of SG-1 episodes it was on a convention location tour. I finally got to visit it, ironically going back to where I live on the tour bus to do it, lol!! It was in quite a bad state, you never knew if your foot would go through any of the floors and the roof was caving in on a couple of buildings. It was sad to see buildings that have turned up on many different shows look so battered. Shame more isn't being done to try and maintain it as it's pretty unique, used quite a lot for filming and weird just sitting there in the landscape of Maple Ridge!

The place where they ended up filming the episode went under the bulldozers a couple of years ago, victim of the relentless residential development around Vancouver. It was the same location used in the SG-1 episode 'Revisions'.

jelgate
August 20th, 2012, 05:50 PM
Its not as bad as Irrestible but at the same time its not great. I thought it was an average episode. Yes Lavin is their being annoying but he is not a straight up jerk like the last episode. He has a few redeeming factors in that he had good intentions but just turned up to his former ways. And in the end when confronted by Koyla and the Genii he ultimately does the right thing when Shepphed pushes him so I find that interesting and tolerable as an episode. However this the episode that has Koyla die was sad. It was the worse episode for Koyla (mostly to Lucius) and to have his death attached on at the end was kind of sad. It just didn't live up the Sheppherd and Koyla confrontations. Its like they also made Koyla stupid

Lieutenant Sparrow
August 21st, 2012, 02:47 AM
Ugh not someone I wanted to see again.

Only slightly better than irresistible. And that's only because Kolya is in it.

Such a pity Lucious had that shield on when the Genii blew him up.

And that's the end of Kolya.

Matt G
August 23rd, 2012, 02:28 PM
Midweek, another ep of Atlantis...

1. Another ep I didn't bother pausing for IMs.

2. The villagers were moronic.

3. First Ronon thought the hero was Satedan and then...

4. Bad way to scratch Kolya.

Electric_Sheep
September 2nd, 2012, 03:34 AM
What an abysmal way for Kolya to go out. It's almost disheartening to see such a great villain die in such a pathetic manner. They could have let him get away and provide future trouble for the people in Atlantis, but instead they just tag his death on at the end like it's an after-thought. In a word: sad.

Jae'a
September 11th, 2012, 07:20 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/70859.html)
So much for catching up...
I don't mind that Kolya's death wasn't that great. At least he's gone.

Don Pantaloons
October 1st, 2012, 11:11 AM
My thoughts upon seeing this episode for the first time:

Bad -- Lucius. Kolya and his potato nose and stupid mustache.

Good -- Ronon had a few good lines. "She's right, we'll have to kill them all. I'm all right with that, by the way." Lucius was less annoying than his previous episode. Sheppard finally killed Kolya. Good riddance, potato nose and stupid mustache.

Cluas
February 19th, 2013, 06:01 AM
Under average episode..

"Oh no - Lucius again" was my first thought. I liked the first ep with him, but why bring him back?

Well, even though I figured Lucius' scam out, and knew the team wasn't gonna leave, it was still better than I expected.

It was good to see Kolya finally go down. As promised by Shep. But as others said, it wasn't quite the right way.

There was some obvious changes from "Hide & Seek" and I really didn't like that. Did the writers even check that episode out? Or maybe they just didn't care. This is not the first time we see a device twisted to fit the plot. But I just thought it was a BIG HUGE mistake.

And the ending: It was WAY too obvious that the device got depleted in the end. Also only to fit the plot. I guess I don't like when that happens....

:weiranime34:

mrscopterdoc
August 20th, 2014, 06:10 PM
Lucius again......ugh

unscheduled traveller
March 15th, 2018, 01:07 PM
Lucius Lavin is sort of the Harry Mudd of the Stargate universe.