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da040926
May 8th, 2007, 05:24 PM
I was starting to wonder if it was just me. I don't get the whole "look what they did to poor Michael!" thing. Yes, absolutely, they changed him without his consent. But come on--he's a Wraith! As far as he was concerned before the first retrovirus treatment, humans were food, and he was probably on board with the plan to find the "rich new feeding ground". The retrovirus seemed like a reasonable way to stop the Wraith from making us all lunch without killing them. Okay, so it didn't work: but I was glad that at least Ronon understands that when you're fighting a war for your survival as a species, you have a lot less room to sit and agonize over the ethics.

Well .. Ronon was actualy against using retrovirus in the first place.
Why didn't they tell Michael the truth in the very beginning of his new humanity instead of those clumsy lies, btw? It was worth the try, IMHO.

MIZA
May 16th, 2007, 05:35 PM
i probaly won't watch Sunday because it is too sad to watch but i'll read the transcipts (long live callie sullivan you rule girl you are the best) and i don't think i can do it, i am glad i read post like this because they prepare me for an episode so i know what is going on, i still going to watch Vengence though i luv SGA it is a great show, and i trust the show that kept SG1 on the air for 10 years, that it is going to be ok, there was a reason they wanted to shake things up a bit and if you read the interview with Paul McGillion you would know why?



so please you guys don't boycott the show because of this , i miss Carson too , but it is going to be ok alright

Salamas
May 19th, 2007, 09:15 AM
Does anyone know what that weird wave thing is that Ronon is doing when the team is in the field walking back to the stargate. They're talking about wraith reproduction and suddenly, randomly Ronon does this wave thing to the side.
Anyone?

ColCaldwell
June 15th, 2007, 06:54 PM
Horrible episode.

Major_Griff
June 15th, 2007, 07:16 PM
I thought Vengence was pretty good. I did noticed though that at first they shot the one super wraith a milliion times and it didn't die but then at the end Ronon was picking them off pretty easily, but thats consistant with every other villain in SG history that was initially very hard to kill and then soon enough taken down with one shot. Replicators, the Wraith, Unas, the Goa'uld.

AGateFan
June 15th, 2007, 07:18 PM
The Atlantis ep was OK but predictable.

At least they had something of a logical reason for the super soldiers but not sure how he expects to control them.

I still find Michael sympathetic considering how the SGA scrwed him over and over. Ronan was the only one who was ever honest.

I like how Teyla came up with the RIGHT course of action even if everyone else didnt want to follow it. Then Ronan came up with the RIGHT course of action that should have been followed to begin with (when the Michael experiment first failed). Rodney was suprisingly not as whiny as I would have expected considering the circumstances and the beginning of the ep was somehow appropriate. Maybe someday he will have some skills. Sheppard was solid as always and I liked how HE came up with the RIGHT PLAN and Ronan acknowledged it. Buy WHY didnt he just beam up Michael at the end so they could shoot him when he has no backup.....oh right, hes Dr Evil and they need him for future eps... my bad. (I did actually like that line)

I like how the super soliders were not all powerful and were actually vulnerable if you shoot them in the right place. That way you dont need the super special weapon like most stargate plots seem to require these days.

I didnt like how the marines were idiots... maybe a bit of a scatter when a wraith dart shows up would be appropiate. And I dont like that they made one call back with false information even though it should have been obvious he was doomed anyway. I think a good old "scrw you" would have been the words out of my mouth to Michael. Even if Atlantis already has.

Weir was good but her mistakes and that of her team are starting to catch up and weigh on her.

Ok, the more I think on it... I actually really like it.

Jackie
June 15th, 2007, 07:39 PM
"Alien" rip off--cheesy creatures--predictable plot.

Loved Micheal, he made the episode. If Micheal wasn't behind it-- and the writer's made it some mutated bug...it would have been tooooooo cheesy.

Sallygoround
June 15th, 2007, 08:05 PM
I thought the episode was excellent. Very well paced, and the moody lighting and camera teases were perfect. I'd like to see more episodes done this way. Loved the nod to Aliens, too.

I look forward to seeing Michael again in S4, because as Connor Trinneer said in his GW interview, the story has legs!

the fifth man
June 15th, 2007, 08:14 PM
"Alien" rip off--cheesy creatures--predictable plot.

Loved Micheal, he made the episode. If Micheal wasn't behind it-- and the writer's made it some mutated bug...it would have been tooooooo cheesy.

I enjoyed the overall episode for the most part. I thought most of it was pretty well done.

I do have to agree though, Michael made it much better. I really like his character, and hope we get quite a bit more of him in Season 4.

retiredat44
June 16th, 2007, 06:59 AM
Enough of the chest already.



????

:sholva::bow:

expendable_crewman
June 16th, 2007, 12:38 PM
????
I think the comment was in reply to an early to mid-thread run on one character's biology and how the bug crawling on top of her showed that she had parts appropriate (if that's the right word) to her gender. I could go on, but it was a bit weird the first time.

I hope Michael comes back in season 4.

Charles17
June 16th, 2007, 07:19 PM
when they returned to atlantis at the end of the ep... the operator gets shepherd's code, then the stargate opens, they come through, the stargate closes...

is that a mistake? doesnt the stargate need to be open first in order for a code to come through? or did i miss something???

scifi_lemon
June 16th, 2007, 07:22 PM
when they returned to atlantis at the end of the ep... the operator gets shepherd's code, then the stargate opens, they come through, the stargate closes...

is that a mistake? doesnt the stargate need to be open first in order for a code to come through? or did i miss something???

Are you sure they didn't mean 'lower/open the shield'? Because there does have to be an open wormhole, but not a lowered shield for transmittions to come through.

sparklegem
June 16th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Buy WHY didnt he just beam up Michael at the end so they could shoot him when he has no backup.....

My question exactly. Even my dad, who doesn't normally watch the show exclaimed, "Wait, why didn't he just suck up the bad guy when he had the chance?"

Lorr
June 16th, 2007, 07:56 PM
My question exactly. Even my dad, who doesn't normally watch the show exclaimed, "Wait, why didn't he just suck up the bad guy when he had the chance?"

Sheppard may not be able to read the Wraith's HUD well enough yet to have known it was Michael. He may know the "signatures" of the humans well enough, but not the others. Also, when he was going to beam them out, not knowing what kind of weapon Michael had might have made it dangerous, especially if he has to beam them all out at once and it's possible any one or all of his team might be unconscious. These are details that take too long to explain in the available time.

Also, they determined that the super bugs had a very tough exoskeleton, but the underbelly was quite vulnerable.

I thought it was a 10/10 episode.

dec55
June 17th, 2007, 11:30 AM
Lame = Ronan and his ******* stun/kill/stun/kill song and dance. Do us all a favour and set it to "no one gives a frak"



Frankly I want to see more of Ronan's song and dance...it makes the show
more fun. Do us a favor and put more of this in the show.


Ronan was the best part of this eppy...he saw that Michael should have been
killed in first place. Ronan knows his enemies the Wraith and definitely sees
the dangers before anyone else does.

BTW

Ronan has definite chemistry with Sheppard. They play off incredibly well. His comedic chemistry with
Rodney is hilarious...and visual chemistry with Teyla is incredible.

MIZA
June 17th, 2007, 01:40 PM
Yeah i totally agree with you Sparklegem


i mean they could have picked him up too and interrogated him, what they hell !!!!!!!!, but oh well i guess it is just a way for Michael to come back

does anyone else agree with me that, that was one scary episode , i know when those giant bugs came out i jumped a few times , you didn't even see that one when it attacked Ronon , i was like WHOA WHAT THE !!!!!!!!!

PG15
June 17th, 2007, 02:25 PM
Actually, I was expecting that. You could hear the music start to tense up, and the scene was starting to run long without any sudden movements, plot developments, or even any dialogue. They were preparing you for the sudden scare by calming you down with the lack of any forward motion in the story.

You know what I mean?

AGateFan
June 17th, 2007, 02:31 PM
Actually, I was expecting that. You could hear the music start to tense up, and the scene was starting to run long without any sudden movements, plot developments, or even any dialogue. They were preparing you for the sudden scare by calming you down with the lack of any forward motion in the story.

You know what I mean?
Plus once you see the hatched cocoon, was there any doubt there was going to be some buggy thing jumping out at them. I liked Teyla's plan but she said it a little later then she should have, maybe she was waiting for Sheppard to come up with it. Once they saw all the dead people and only one life form reading on the detector, they should have stepped back and formed a new plan (or just A plan).

The good thing on Atlantis though is, unlike a lot of shows, they at least acknowledge that these people have seen these types of circumstances in movies. John’s recognition of the Alien air vent situation is much nicer then just some guy, whose supposed be from our time, just ignoring the possibility. Stargate has historically been pretty good at that.

Falcon Horus
June 17th, 2007, 02:35 PM
Silence equals scare coming up.
Music rising means something is bound to happen, be that scary or not.

I guess it's one of those things they learn in tv-making-school.
I for one, find it only slightly annoying that I can pretty accurately guess what will happen by the way something is done.

PG15
June 17th, 2007, 05:02 PM
Yeah, but even if you know what's coming, you still don't know exactly when it's coming; that's where they get ya. It's the Startling Factor.

Charles17
June 18th, 2007, 12:17 AM
when they returned to atlantis at the end of the ep... the operator gets shepherd's code, then the stargate opens, they come through, the stargate closes...

is that a mistake? doesnt the stargate need to be open first in order for a code to come through? or did i miss something???
Are you sure they didn't mean 'lower/open the shield'? Because there does have to be an open wormhole, but not a lowered shield for transmittions to come through.


Are you sure they didn't mean 'lower/open the shield'? Because there does have to be an open wormhole, but not a lowered shield for transmittions to come through.

i think i heard the kawoosh after they received the code...

Charles17
June 18th, 2007, 12:22 AM
yeah you dont even see the light from the stargate or hear the kawoosh until after the shield goes down... strange...

Falcon Horus
June 18th, 2007, 05:41 AM
Yeah, but even if you know what's coming, you still don't know exactly when it's coming; that's where they get ya. It's the Startling Factor.

Which at first viewing works but kinda dies in later viewings.

Carter1994
June 18th, 2007, 03:09 PM
Ugh. I don't think I'll ever watch it again. Did whoever wrote and co-wrote this thing sit down and think of the grossest thing they could show?! I HATE MICHAEL. I wish we had just listened to Ronan in the first place instead of messing with him, drugging him, and generally making him the maddest guy ever at us! Eesh. Very predictable, too. Why must we go towards the bad, evil, icky stuff? Oh, well. I really liked Ronan, though, which is odd. ;)

Lauriel
June 18th, 2007, 04:34 PM
yeah you dont even see the light from the stargate or hear the kawoosh until after the shield goes down... strange...

I may be wrong, but I thought it didn't kawoosh at all when the shield is up. I seem to remember watching it and the shield is on, the stargate comes on behind it (sans kawoosh) and then they lower the shield when they get the code. You only get the kawoosh if they open the stargate without the shield.

Jackie
June 18th, 2007, 08:09 PM
This would have been a great episode of Carson Beckett was in it. Beckett invented the virus. He experimented with it and he was tortured by Michael.

It should have been Carson on the table instead of Teyla.

The whole ep would have been far greater of Carson was actually put through some degree of torture by Michael. If the two were to actually converse.

Beckett could have poked into Micheal's mind with probing questions of what gives them the right not to look for an alternate food source. To use the human experience to try and get Micheal to understand why he made the virus.

A debate over life/death and identity could have raged on between the pair.

TPTB really messed up by dooming Carson. He should have been the focal point of the episode.

I don't recall Dr. Beckett even being mentioned in the ep. Like he never existed in the first place. Dumb, dumb, dumb move TPTB!:(

Margaret
June 18th, 2007, 09:00 PM
Yay, for bringing back Michael. A great character!

Boo for all the running around in dark tunnels being chased by bug-things. (Not a fan of horror shows.) Well, as long as they don't do it too often . . .

TuesdayRain
June 19th, 2007, 06:39 AM
I thought this episode was lame for many of the reasons already posted so I won't repeat them. But what no one has posted and maybe no one cares but what "bugged" me was why write yet another episode about some version of the iratus bug + human combination. We've already had the following:

1. Wraith = iratus bug + human
2. Elya = iratus bug retrovirus + wraith
3. Michael = iratus bug retrovirus + wraith
4. Shepard = human + iratus bug retrovirus
5. this episode's bug = iratus bug + human (see #1 above -- wouldn't this combination lead back to creating a Wraith and not some supposedly super strength bug in this episode?)

(P.S. I haven't seen Misbegotten yet so I'm sure there's some combination there that I'm missing.)

Jackie
June 19th, 2007, 11:13 AM
I thought this episode was lame for many of the reasons already posted so I won't repeat them. But what no one has posted and maybe no one cares but what "bugged" me was why write yet another episode about some version of the iratus bug + human combination. We've already had the following:

1. Wraith = iratus bug + human
2. Elya = iratus bug retrovirus + wraith
3. Michael = iratus bug retrovirus + wraith
4. Shepard = human + iratus bug retrovirus
5. this episode's bug = iratus bug + human (see #1 above -- wouldn't this combination lead back to creating a Wraith and not some supposedly super strength bug in this episode?)

(P.S. I haven't seen Misbegotten yet so I'm sure there's some combination there that I'm missing.)\


LOL...I tried to write a fan fic with Carson in Teyla's place. When i got to the part where Micheal was explaining how he came up with his new creation--it didn't make any sense. I came up with same conclusion in the dialog.

I couldn't figure out how Micheal got the humanoid bug after using the reversed retrovirus on the eggs.

I guess if you can present the matterial in a convincing manner--you can sell anything!;)

I think I came up with the reverse virus just removing the human DNA and thus...little bugs would hatch.

Carter1994
June 19th, 2007, 01:11 PM
I understood that there was a lot more Iratus DNA in said creatures, making them more Bug than Human, whereas the Wraith have more human DNA than Iratus, making them not so buggy. (But still gross, disgusting, evil...)

What I want to know is
Why don't we use the same deployment to flood the Wraith ships with poisoned gas? Much more effective, IMO.

CalmStorm
June 19th, 2007, 05:41 PM
Super bugs that you have to hit in a sweet spot to kill?

I can certainly understand Michael's position. What a survivor. He survived team SGA experimenting on him, he survived being returned to the wraith, he survived team SGA attempt to blow up his hive ship, he survived a massive rain of fire from the Daedalus from space in the immediate area and surrounding area, survived his second human stained existence on board the hive ship that "rescued" him and all the attempts from team SGA to kill him along the way.

...and now he has created super bug. Go team Michael! Woo hoo, got 'em some super bugs.

In all his brilliance he didn't think to lock the dart before he left?

Why did team SGA not think to blow up the dialing device on the ground before they left too? It's not like they needed it.

elbo
June 23rd, 2007, 09:26 PM
Have anyone else wondered why Sheppard didn't beam Michael into the dart, after she took Teyla and Rodney? I guess that would have solved a lot of problems.

Trek_Girl42
September 27th, 2007, 12:35 AM
Have anyone else wondered why Sheppard didn't beam Michael into the dart, after she took Teyla and Rodney? I guess that would have solved a lot of problems.
That was the first thing I thought as well. :P

Overall decent episode, not one of the best, was thrilled to see Michael return though- I was beginning to wonder if he'd even make another appearence this season! Connor Trinner does a fabulous job as always- I like that they've dialed back the wraith make-up, having him look a little more human makes it a lot more interesting. I'm on two minds of the bugs thing- some of the sequences were excellent, all the shadows and quick movements we never saw those bugs fully, which I love. But the tension was never built up in order for the terror to set in- and for an idea like that to fully work, there needs to be some terror.

Had to resist moving right along to the season finale- gotta save that for tomorrow. :P

MmmmMcKAy
October 2nd, 2007, 06:06 PM
I really like this episode! It's a lot of fun. The creepy hybrid bugs were awesome.:):)

Lots of good gun and knife action. I't a really good team episode .:):ronan::teyla::mckay::sheppard:

We even got a rare Rodney/Teyla scene.

And we got Michael. The little devil is still out there somewhere too. So we might see him again.

Trek_Girl42
October 3rd, 2007, 03:56 PM
I really like this episode! It's a lot of fun. The creepy hybrid bugs were awesome.:):)

Lots of good gun and knife action. I't a really good team episode .:):ronan::teyla::mckay::sheppard:

We even got a rare Rodney/Teyla scene.

And we got Michael. The little devil is still out there somewhere too. So we might see him again.
Considering that Connor Trinneer is pictured in some of the season four wrap party photos on JM's blog, I'd say chances are good. :D

Michael just keeps on becoming a better and better character each episode he's in. I've been really impressed by how we've had several wraith shown as more individual characters in season three, rather than just the-wraith-as-a-whole-are-bad-news direction that was seasons one and two.

MmmmMcKAy
October 3rd, 2007, 04:52 PM
If you watch the "Looking back at Season 3" extra on your Season 3 dvds, Martin Guero(I think it's him), says that giving the Wraith more personality was on of their goals for Season 3.

Cool that Michael will show up in Season 4. I like the tie ins between seasons.

Trek_Girl42
October 3rd, 2007, 07:00 PM
If you watch the "Looking back at Season 3" extra on your Season 3 dvds, Martin Guero(I think it's him), says that giving the Wraith more personality was on of their goals for Season 3.

Cool that Michael will show up in Season 4. I like the tie ins between seasons.
Cool! I haven't watched any of the features yet, must get to that one first. I'd certainly say that they succeeded. :D

Mattathias2.0
October 3rd, 2007, 08:33 PM
I did like most of the Wraith episodes this year.

Michael is now one of my favorite villians. After seeing this episode, I look forward to viewing his next story, because he is a decent threat that Atlantis created (and some people say the Ancients are troublesome).

Lauriel
October 4th, 2007, 07:51 AM
Considering that Connor Trinneer is pictured in some of the season four wrap party photos on JM's blog, I'd say chances are good. :D

Michael just keeps on becoming a better and better character each episode he's in. I've been really impressed by how we've had several wraith shown as more individual characters in season three, rather than just the-wraith-as-a-whole-are-bad-news direction that was seasons one and two.

Agreed. Things are always more interesting and (given the obvious) more realistic when there are shades of grey and characters and situations have more complexity.

garhkal
October 4th, 2007, 02:50 PM
because he is a decent threat that Atlantis created (and some people say the Ancients are troublesome).

Darn skippy.. Heck i wonder if in 1 mil years, we will have another race looking at what we did and calling us failures?

EarthandBeyond
December 26th, 2007, 01:39 PM
Awesome episode in "Alien" movie style.
Man if i was in McKay place, wouldnt kept my eyes off that motion detector.

John W
January 24th, 2008, 07:37 AM
I'm not afraid to say this episode really gave me the creeps several times. I think it's gotta be one of the scariest episodes they've ever done on either Stargate series. Yeah, I know it's got a lot in common with "Alien", but it was still scary.

But I think the best part of the episode is the whole thread/arc surrounding Michael. I really think his whole storyline has been excellent right from the start. Even though he's a bad guy, you actually find yourself sympathising with him and agreeing with him. He's not the usual bad-guy who's out to kill our heroes just because he's bad. He's doing it because the Atlantis team have really screwed-up his life, not once but several times. Not only that, but they've used him and lied to him loads of times too. So, you can't help but think that Michael's perfectly justified in being out to get revenge on the team. I hope he returns many times again in the future of the show, as he's really one of the best characters ever in the whole of Stargate.

I also liked Ronon's moment with Sheppard where he finally comes out and tells Sheppard that he's had enough of being told to put his weapon on stun and go easy on Michael. As Ronon says, he's had concerns about the plans involving Michael from the start, but no-one really listened to him. Now, he's had enough, because Michael's bitten them on the rear way too many times and so he's going to kill him. That's one of the great things about Ronon, in that he's the kind of character who can say things like this.

Finally, I really got the sense from the end of the episode that the Atlantis team have well and truly screwed things up big time now. Everything that's happened: Michael, the Superbugs, the deaths of the Teranans are all because of them. I can't wait to see where this takes them next season.

Raven56
January 24th, 2008, 07:07 PM
He's doing it because the Atlantis team have really screwed-up his life, not once but several times. Not only that, but they've used him and lied to him loads of times too. So, you can't help but think that Michael's perfectly justified in being out to get revenge on the team.
.. snip for space ..
Finally, I really got the sense from the end of the episode that the Atlantis team have well and truly screwed things up big time now. Everything that's happened: Michael, the Superbugs, the deaths of the Teranans are all because of them. I can't wait to see where this takes them next season.
That's one of the things I've always liked about SGA - the people try to be the good guys, and they may have the best of intentions, but sometimes they royally screw up.

And this time we've actually had a chance to see the fallout, instead of it happening offscreen (which it mostly does).

Nice.

GoSpikey
January 29th, 2008, 07:51 AM
That's one of the things I've always liked about SGA - the people try to be the good guys, and they may have the best of intentions, but sometimes they royally screw up.

And this time we've actually had a chance to see the fallout, instead of it happening offscreen (which it mostly does).

Nice.

This is one of my favorite eps! :P

I can't wait to see Kindred I, so we can finally see what Michael has been doing ever since his 'oops' moment at the end of Vengeance. :D

LordRe
February 13th, 2008, 06:36 PM
No mention of Carson, in a story relating to his character's main (if not only) arc?

Submersion was forgiveable, but this isn't

I won't be watching this one either.

i was reading the season 3 companion and i read that mallozzi asked carl binder to change the last part of his script to leave an opening to bring carson back.

i checked it out and the only thing that stood out was michael was able to implement beckett's work so quickly in to his own. maybe he has beckett or a clone of him?

Teddybrown
March 27th, 2008, 01:25 PM
I think this was a good episode with a creepy feeling that anything could jump out at any time
I think the bugs were wicked and the end bit was good with the bugs all closing in on Rodney and Teyla and the Dart sweeps in and saves them just in time flown by Sheppard and Ronon
I got a question though
Why does Michael drop his bugs for human wraith in Kindred Parts 1 and 2?
The bugs are much better than the human versions
Also where does he put em?
Also Michael comes back with a vengeance in Season 4 and causes a real problem for Atlantis
Why dont they kill Michael when they have the chance? They had soooo many chances

Falcon Horus
March 27th, 2008, 02:56 PM
Tell me, Teddy, why are you spoiling season 3 with season 4 elements?

If that's case, then please add that underneath your spoiler are season 4 elements, thank you.

Not all of us have seen the next season.

GoSpikey
March 28th, 2008, 05:04 AM
i was reading the season 3 companion and i read that mallozzi asked carl binder to change the last part of his script to leave an opening to bring carson back.

i checked it out and the only thing that stood out was michael was able to implement beckett's work so quickly in to his own. maybe he has beckett or a clone of him?

You don't say... :mckay:


I think this was a good episode with a creepy feeling that anything could jump out at any time
I think the bugs were wicked and the end bit was good with the bugs all closing in on Rodney and Teyla and the Dart sweeps in and saves them just in time flown by Sheppard and Ronon
I got a question though (season 4 spoilers)
Why does Michael drop his bugs for human wraith in Kindred Parts 1 and 2?
The bugs are much better than the human versions
Also where does he put em?
Also Michael comes back with a vengeance in Season 4 and causes a real problem for Atlantis
Why dont they kill Michael when they have the chance? They had soooo many chances

Season 4 things...
They're better.
Hybrids: on ships, bugs: boom!land
Michael came back with a Vengeance in Vengeance...
Ask yourself the question why they don't do so with you... Enough opportunities, too. :mckay:
Okay, seriously, think Michael would be more happy when they did that with him? Tsk tsk tsk. He's past that stage. :D


Tell me, Teddy, why are you spoiling season 3 with season 4 elements?

If that's case, then please add that underneath your spoiler are season 4 elements, thank you.

Not all of us have seen the next season.

Lemming! :P

Skydiver
March 29th, 2008, 10:31 AM
Let's remember please, that anything that happens beyond season three MUST be in spoiler tags

Millertime610
April 14th, 2008, 09:22 AM
I thought this episode was lame for many of the reasons already posted so I won't repeat them. But what no one has posted and maybe no one cares but what "bugged" me was why write yet another episode about some version of the iratus bug + human combination. We've already had the following:

1. Wraith = iratus bug + human
2. Elya = iratus bug retrovirus + wraith
3. Michael = iratus bug retrovirus + wraith
4. Shepard = human + iratus bug retrovirus
5. this episode's bug = iratus bug + human (see #1 above -- wouldn't this combination lead back to creating a Wraith and not some supposedly super strength bug in this episode?)

(P.S. I haven't seen Misbegotten yet so I'm sure there's some combination there that I'm missing.)

You have to remember the retrovirus used on Elya was not the same one used on Michael. The on used on Elya was one in an earlier stage, as to why Beckett wanted to test on her in the first place. As for Michael, he was wraith first so it would be Michael= Wraith+New refined retrovirus+retrovirus wearing off leaving more human traits that wraith traits. And the retrovirus shepard got exposed to was one if the earlier batches from Elya's episode.

As for the big bug monsters... The gene therapy that michael is developing does the opposite of Beckett's retrovirus. It superimposes iratus bug DNA on the human DNA, leaving very little human and mostly bug, as opposed to stripping bug DNA traces of evolution on a mostly human DNA wraith strand.
(Deep Breath) Beckett's strips, michael's adds more bug (not wraith) and strips human qualities.
AAAAAAAND Michael's Wraith qualities never actually left, as to why he was able to turn back. The virus was never made a permanent innoculation of sorts. Thats what carson was working on before they "killed" the whole camp. <or at least they thought they did>

Good start, i hope i was able to clarify...

Teddybrown
June 13th, 2008, 09:16 AM
Tell me, Teddy, why are you spoiling season 3 with season 4 elements?

If that's case, then please add that underneath your spoiler are season 4 elements, thank you.

Not all of us have seen the next season.

I dont get you

:lol:

Falcon Horus
June 13th, 2008, 01:20 PM
I dont get you

:lol:

I don't get myself either... :S

GoSpikey
August 12th, 2008, 10:15 AM
:rolleyes:

Way to go, FH... :P

Butlersgate
March 7th, 2009, 04:51 AM
fantastic episode, i love ronan finally forcing his decision to kill micheal on sheppard.

major davis
May 15th, 2009, 02:17 PM
Ok episode. Monsters were creepy but sometimes looked really fake and korny. Still good plot. Funny how that same genii set hallway is in the ep.

escyos
June 5th, 2009, 01:23 AM
had a kind of Alien feel to it, awesome but did he kill them all after he created his new hybrids

Gamma626
April 12th, 2010, 08:39 PM
I loved the part where the dart came through the gate with the marines.

Marines: DART! SHOOT IT!

*all stand single file in one spot as it slowly beams them up*

albatross
April 13th, 2010, 08:39 AM
Gotta ask: Why has no-one bothered to retroengineer Ronan's gun and make a load more? It is clearly way more effective than P-90s against humans, wraith and bug people. In the same vein, I wonder why they haven't bothered to replicate wraith stunner technology, as it effectively knocks out wraith long enough for you to lock them up or chop off their heads or whatever you fancy doing with them. Not to mention the possibility of using this technology as a starting point to creating some kinda anti-hiveship weapon or something. Worth a try, surely?

asdf1239
April 18th, 2010, 10:27 PM
zats > wraith tasers

mrscopterdoc
September 5th, 2010, 04:23 PM
good episode but then again I like Michael.

maneth
January 26th, 2011, 10:24 AM
Cool episode. Loved the Alien feel, and of course Michael who is my favorite Wraith.

Lunaeclipse
January 18th, 2012, 02:26 PM
...Just when I thought those bugs couldn't get any creepier... Was an interesting ep in a few ways and not so in others...

Lythisrose
August 24th, 2012, 09:23 AM
Joe Mallozzi's Blog (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/august-23-2012-dog-blog-days-of-stargate-atlantis-past-vengeance/)entry:


VENGEANCE (319)

Hot on the heels of the creepy, horror-like Submerged comes the equally creepy mini creature-feature guest starring the villainous Michael. Turns out he didn’t perish in that hive ship battle way back when. Either that, or he got MUCH better. Well, he’s back and he’s mighty pissed. He’s also brilliant (a deadly combination) and has put all that energy to work on a little experimentation. And when the team investigates the general well-being of some old friends, the Taranians (last scene in Inferno), they end up experiencing the fruits of said experimentation up close and personal.

Love Connor Trinneer as Michael and also love the character’s increasingly erratic and, arguably, evil turn. Still, he retains that flicker of humanity and vulnerability thanks to Carl Binder’s writing and Connor’s nuanced performance.

On the other hand, the monsters were well-served by the quick cuts and dark lighting that left much to the viewer’s imagination. I recall watching the dailies and laughing every time THIS fellow high-stepped his way across the screen:
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/vengeance1.jpg

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 27th, 2012, 04:55 PM
I've got to say it was a very dark episode. Those "Super-Wraith" were scary, huge SOBs, that's all I'll say. I give it a **1/2.

1 week until the season finale.
I guess that explains everything.

Tomorrow, the finale, and Earth's newest battle cruiser.

Krisz
August 28th, 2012, 06:48 PM
One of the darker episodes of SGA, the Michael arc certainly changed the tone of the series, it began with the moral ambiguity of changing a Wraith into a human with a retro virus and develops into a situation that haunts the people of Atlantis. This episode is the first we see of the dark dank places where Micheal's anger and rage bring horrors to life to unleash on his perceived wrong doers.

The lengths he is prepared to go to are hinted at here in the horrific way he discards human life in the course of his experiments. Finding the room full of decaying stinking bodies was truly a horrific scene, and one we've not seen the likes of in SGA, this added to the sense of disgust we can feel as viewers towards Michael. From now we can only wonder what depths he will sink to.

Connor Trineer really does a great job bringing this angry, yet lost character yearning to belong somewhere to life.

jelgate
August 28th, 2012, 10:17 PM
This is where I stopped agreeing with Micheal and his whole you made me and I did this to survive type of speech. It loses its justification when he goes around mass murdering an innocent civilization. I did not find this episode scary in JM's intended scary story and more of it was just plain creepy. Using the Iratus bug and human DNA to make a new form of Wraith was kind of disgusting and creepy. Which I can understand since these bug creatures are creepy kind of people. But it seems kind of a long episode. It seems like too much of the episode is Atlantis team running around the tunnels after these bugs. It gets boring after awhile. And the idiot award goes to Sheppherd. He agrees they need to stop playing cat and mouse and when the control crystal from the gate is stolen he goes back in and plays another game with the bugs. It made no sense. Overall its a "meh" episode. Not bad but not good

Lieutenant Sparrow
August 29th, 2012, 01:35 AM
Great ep. Pretty scary one as well.

Love the start with Ronon and McKay sparring. Well I guess sparring isn't the right word. It was more like McKay taking a beating from Ronon haha.

The ep had a very Aliens feel to it. Especially with the motion detector being similar to the one from Aliens. Beep beep beep beep *They're right on top of us!*

The Aliens looked a lot like PredAliens.

It was great seeing Michael again. He really is turning into quite the foe now. Even more dangerous than the rest of the Wraith actually.

garhkal
August 29th, 2012, 01:38 PM
When i saw Pred/aliens 2, it did remind me somewhat of these critters...

Matt G
August 30th, 2012, 04:42 PM
MIdweek, another ep of Atlantis...

1. Having now seen the Alien series..."eat this" was the line of choice when Shep machine gunned the bug from behind the door.

2. Of course, now we know how MIchael got his intel it's interesting that that was the biggest unanswered question at the end of this.

3. Those Marines were dumb.

Decent ep.

Jae'a
September 27th, 2012, 03:29 PM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/72231.html)
Good ep, was surprised to see Michael again.

Cluas
February 20th, 2013, 11:32 AM
Now, this was creepy. Good episode.
:ronon: Nice to see Ronon yelling at Sheppard

But speaking of Shep, yeah, going back in there, when they found the control crystal missing, that was plain dumb. :sheppardanime31:

Baron Of Hell
September 2nd, 2013, 04:11 AM
Liked the episode. A little inconsistent on the ease to kill the new super bug people but that is the way the show is with everything.

The show brought up something interesting. Do we ever learn how the wraith reproduce? We haven't seen any wraith children running around or eggs.

Falcon Horus
September 2nd, 2013, 07:08 AM
Do we ever learn how the wraith reproduce? We haven't seen any wraith children running around or eggs.

Yes we do... just hang in there... :p

StargateMillennium
July 18th, 2014, 05:20 PM
I wish they did more with these bugs 'cause they seem kinda...wimpy. Yeah, they look cool and are presented as threatening, but their actions don't support that. One gets its arm chopped off and runs off and the team isn't even scratched. Then, one ambushes three of them and gets killed and the team remains unscathed. Another one even pins and starts pimp slapping Shepard but gets killed and they are STILL unharmed.

And, they keep getting easier and easier to kill. Maybe they could've made these bugs scarier if they had another episode with them but by the end they don't seem very threatening.

Falcon Horus
July 18th, 2014, 05:30 PM
This is Sheppard's team we're talking about, they can't die (or stay dead)... they are on the front lines, the safest place you can be.

[/end sarcasm]

jelgate
July 18th, 2014, 06:29 PM
To be fair that's like all TV shows. The main characters can't die.

StargateMillennium
July 18th, 2014, 08:46 PM
They didn't have die. Even SG1 got shot or hurt on the battle field plenty of times. The bugs didn't even scratch Shepard's team. Not a scar, slash mark, bite mark, not even McKay complaining about a cut. Shepard got pounced and his clothes weren't even ripped. They would've been a lot more intimidating if they at least hurt the team to some degree.

Falcon Horus
July 19th, 2014, 04:42 PM
To be fair that's like all TV shows. The main characters can't die.

Plenty of shows out there where no one's safe, and I'm not talking about Game of Thrones.

jelgate
July 19th, 2014, 04:57 PM
That's because characters die in the books. I'm not sure that really counts

Falcon Horus
July 19th, 2014, 05:25 PM
That's because characters die in the books. I'm not sure that really counts

Spooks, NCIS, NCIS:LA, Doctor Who, Firefly, Buffy, any Joss Whedon show really... BSG

jelgate
July 19th, 2014, 06:46 PM
Can't really comment on Spooks and the NCIS shows as I have never seen them. As for Firefly they only killed the mains in Serenity so I don't think that applies its the final episode. BSG never killed off main character unless it was Daybreak. Doesn't really count to me if its the final episode

mrscopterdoc
August 20th, 2014, 06:23 PM
This is Sheppard's team we're talking about, they can't die (or stay dead)... they are on the front lines, the safest place you can be.

[/end sarcasm]
It's because they never wear red shirts :P

Falcon Horus
August 21st, 2014, 02:39 AM
It's because they never wear red shirts :P

They do actually. When they still wore the jackets with the colored panels, and Teyla had red panels.

jelgate
August 21st, 2014, 06:27 AM
And Teyla was basically a red shirt:P

Falcon Horus
August 21st, 2014, 07:05 AM
And Teyla was basically a red shirt:P

Meh.... she was, but without the dying.

WinterSnow
October 3rd, 2018, 11:47 PM
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I just have to say..

Ronon reminded me more than ever of Predator in this ep.
Especially after Shep's Alien reference.

Just his silhouette in the darkness - the height, the build, the dreads - yes! :ronananime01:

hammerbutt
March 26th, 2020, 08:18 AM
I was still holding out hope for that 1 life sign under the surface to be Norina but no such luck lol.