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GateWorld
November 19th, 2006, 08:48 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/314.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/314.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/314.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">TAO OF RODNEY</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 314</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
After an Ancient device gives Rodney superhuman powers, his enhanced brilliance is checked only by his impending death -- unless he can learn how to ascend.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/314.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

techjunkie
December 11th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Hi All -

Just watched Tao of Rodney. A much better outing that last weeks irresponsible. Here in the land of mucklucks and poutine, the episode aired on Movie Central despite saying it would be a rerun.

The episode was good - better than last week. Rodney was in true form, and the story was not at all like the spoilers we've seen previously.

Good stuff - they explore the city, and a problem with turned on tech ensues.

Really good stuff - instead on focusing on the technobable, it's a story about your journey in life and closure... and how some find it. Rodney's journey is surprisingly touching.

The ending was... albeit a bit trekie... touching.

I enjoyed it. The shark does not seem to be circling this week's episode.

Tech Junkie

ykickamoocow
December 11th, 2006, 08:56 PM
Sounds good. McKay is my favourite character so i cant wait to see the episode tomorrow.

Nearfantastica
December 11th, 2006, 08:56 PM
Here is the episode description I gave in the other thread. There are spoilers for the whole episode here, so read at your own risk!

Rodney get's himself zapped my an ancient "forced acsension" device that gives him super powers akin to the Ancients. It's not all good news though, as the team soon discovers that if Rodney doesn't ascend, his brain will shut down completely after a period of time.

Best parts:
-Rodney uses his telekenesis to move Beckett around the jumper bay so he can prove he's all powerful. Beckett is less than pleased.

When he learns he's going to die, he attempts to make peace with his friends and with himself so that he might be able to ascend. In turn, we get:
-a heartfelt apology to Zelenka (break out the kleenex!)
- hugs Ronon and takes his Wraith scars away
-shares an Athosian tea ceremony with Teyla

Tonnes of Rodney/John moments. This episode will be a dream come true to all the McShep slashers out there.
-John tries to teach Rodney how to meditate and reach a state of calm based on what he learned when stuck in the Cloister in Season 2. This scene was very amusing, as John tried to get Rodney to imagine himself sitting on a Ferris Wheel...etc...blue skies and peace. All the while, John is flipping through a magazine. LOL

I really enjoyed this episode. It showed us a side of Rodney that we haven't quite seen before, and it had a lot of scenes with character development and team interaction. There was even an admission of familial love at the end of the episode.

In the end, Rodney saves himself at the last possible minute...and then teases Elizabeth about how much she "loves" him.

Very cute. ****

LoveConquers
December 11th, 2006, 09:02 PM
Thanks so much for the spoilers! Sounds like a good ep! Do they show previews for next week by chance or is that something that only Sci Fi does? I'm a bit bummed that Sunday didn't air, but very happy that at least it wasn't a rerun!
Thanks again for all the wonderful tidbits! :)

Nearfantastica
December 11th, 2006, 09:10 PM
Thanks so much for the spoilers! Sounds like a good ep! Do they show previews for next week by chance or is that something that only Sci Fi does? I'm a bit bummed that Sunday didn't air, but very happy that at least it wasn't a rerun!
Thanks again for all the wonderful tidbits! :)

No, Movie Central doesn't give us "preview" spots....unfortunately. Those would be nice to have! Hopefully we'll get Sunday next week. According to the offical email sent a few weeks back, we're due one more new epsiode before the Holiday break. *crosses fingers* I honestly never know what is going to be on until is actually airs...and you're welcome for spoilers. I the worst at writing up episode summaries, but I try!

JohnSheppard28
December 11th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Yes, thank you! And you do a great job at spoilers! I'm happy for anything! :D

LoveConquers
December 11th, 2006, 09:25 PM
No, Movie Central doesn't give us "preview" spots....unfortunately. Those would be nice to have! Hopefully we'll get Sunday next week. According to the offical email sent a few weeks back, we're due one more new epsiode before the Holiday break. *crosses fingers* I honestly never know what is going to be on until is actually airs...and you're welcome for spoilers. I the worst at writing up episode summaries, but I try!


Thanks for letting me know! And I love your summaries! :) Thanks so much again for taking the time to do that!
My understanding is that there is one more new ep next week and then a three week hiatus before new eps resume. Three weeks isn't too bad though! I'm crossing my fingers for Sunday next week as well! :) Thanks again!

SaberBlade
December 11th, 2006, 09:50 PM
I'm doing what I can not read this thread in detail, but wasn't "Sunday" the episode that was supposed to be aired?

PG15
December 11th, 2006, 10:31 PM
The airing order is not really confirmed until the episodes air.

SaberBlade
December 11th, 2006, 11:34 PM
So we can expect the UK and US to get the same?

SmallTimePerson
December 11th, 2006, 11:42 PM
probably, usually they air in the same order everywhere (doesnt make sense if part of the story is out)

TJuk
December 11th, 2006, 11:46 PM
So we can expect the UK and US to get the same?

Yep, as the rumoured reason for the switch is...

Carson is killed off/disappears in 'Sunday' but the actor, Paul McGillion, talked about being in at least Toa and The Ark, so it wouldn't have made sense to air 'Sunday' first...

I believe someone posted that 'Sunday' will air as ep 17/18 on one of the assicoated rumour threads, so after Xmas in Canada as next week is the last ep before it returns in the New Year.

Starxgate
December 12th, 2006, 01:40 AM
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/3.jpg

Weir - I need a vacation

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/2.jpg

Rodney - That tickles

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/4.jpg

Rodney - Its time to use the force

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/5.jpg

Carson - Damn you Darth Rodney

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/6.jpg

Rodney - You better apologize for calling me Darth

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/1.jpg

Ronon - Welcome back buddy

the old briar pipe
December 12th, 2006, 01:57 AM
I have no words for this. Embarrassed to say I actually cried.

*wipes eyes*

It was just. There wasn't a single moment I didn't love. I cannot believe they made an ep like this. The only thing that would have improved it would be to have more Teyla.

And now it's finally true: Rodney McKay can heal puppies with his brain!

the old briar pipe
December 12th, 2006, 01:58 AM
Bwahaha! Isn't the hug great?

Do you have one of the doughnut stealing?

Starxgate
December 12th, 2006, 02:14 AM
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/A.jpg

Rodney - I want that doughnut

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/B.jpg

Carson - Thats my doughnut you *******

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/C.jpg

Carson - Sleep with one eye open you doughnut stealing *******

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/D.jpg

:(

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/E.jpg

Rodney - Hey Ronon are you hungry

Ronon - Yes

Rodney - Lets go doughnut hunting

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/F.jpg

Rodney - Time for my revenge on Carson

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/G.jpg

Rodney - Yummy

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/12/371902/H.jpg

Rodney - Dont worry big guy you get the next one

sgeureka
December 12th, 2006, 02:35 AM
I liked the episode. I would compare the story to "The Fifth Race" from SG-1, without the awesome ending. There were references to SG-1 in general, "Prototype", story clues from "Lost City", inclusion of events from "The Return p2", and McKay's sister and family.

I have nothing bad to say about this episode, other than the general "TPTB didn't mix the team very much". Don't get me wrong, most of the scenes were very funny, but I was waiting for the logical conclusion to put McKay with Teyla for meditation, not Sheppard. It was a live-and-death situation after all.

And I know TPTB would never change McKay's attitude in future episodes (they would be stupid if they did), but I wasn't expecting McKay to be back to being a jerk right at the end of this episode. I can't say if it would have worked better to end this ep with a I'mSorry!McKay like in Trinity and only cut back to Jerk!McKay next episode.

The really good:
- Much much much Zelenka. I don't think he was ever featured as much as in this episode.
- New places in Atlantis. Kudos to the set decorators, because I didn't recognize most of them from somewhere else. (Only the cafeteria really looked like the gate area this time.)
- Use of the Ancient chair, this time not for defending the city.
- Much Ancient writing.
- Bonding scenes with McKay and all the members of his team.
- Character moments for all main characters, even though this was a McKay episode.
- References to Halling, even though he wasn't in this episode.
- Although this episode was rather comical, there were moments where you could feel for McKay and his situation.
- More about how ascension actually works.
- McKay claiming in front of Weir that she loved him. Yeah right. ;) And the reaction of Weir.

Red Phoniex
December 12th, 2006, 02:59 AM
The really good:
- Much much much Zelenka. I don't think he was ever featured as much as in this episode.
- New places in Atlantis. Kudos to the set decorators, because I didn't recognize most of them from somewhere else. (Only the cafeteria really looked like the gate area this time.)
- Use of the Ancient chair, this time not for defending the city.
- Much Ancient writing.
- Bonding scenes with McKay and all the members of his team.
- Character moments for all main characters, even though this was a McKay episode.
- References to Halling, even though he wasn't in this episode.
- Although this episode was rather comical, there were moments where you could feel for McKay and his situation.
- More about how ascension actually works.
- McKay claiming in front of Weir that she loved him. Yeah right. ;) And the reaction of Weir.

Fully agree with everything you said. i loved the ep but i was wondering why Teyla wasn't used for meditation. The tea scene was very sweet and it was really nice to see more of McKay with Teyla and Ronan not just Shep. Zelenka was fantastic in it. Really felt the sorry scene was brilliantly wrote. The only thing bad i have to say is, i wish they had shown more of Lorne. The guy hasn't been it in for months and we only get a second frame and that's it! Also (sorry) i don't like how the writers are making Carson and Rodney so mean to eachother all the time this season. You wouldn't even think they were mates. Loved the ending, didn't see it coming and it wasn't the typical conclusion. With McKay jerkest at the end, IMO, you could feel the humour in his voice. i think it has changed him and helped him appreciate those he has around him more but i think now the others can understand why he's like that more.

IWKYZerocool
December 12th, 2006, 03:28 AM
Nice pics, can't wait to see this one. Which will be tonight.

Willow'sCat
December 12th, 2006, 03:39 AM
I honestly don't know what to make of this episode. It didn't play as well as I hoped it would, and it seemed very rushed.

It is a McKay episode no doubt about that, but it also did have Team moments and everyone for a change was seen and heard hell even Lorne (for two seconds).

OK so I hate it when McKay is made fun of, and we do get that and no I didn't like it, but we also had McKay apologising to Radek, saving his life, hugging and healing Ronon, being spiritual with Teyla :confused: and as usual this weird thing he has with Weir, I mean it is weird.

Also biggest dam McShep episode EVER! *oh the fanfics!* :D I get why they used John, as they said he is the only one that has been around people while they were trying to ascend, and even if he didn't listen he wanted to help his friend *cough* in his time of need. I loved the love bit...(DADT as I live and breathe! :p ) I don't blame Rodney for not fully believing them, why should he? :cool:

As I said not sure how I feel about this one, I will need to re-watched it, it feels almost like half an idea or episode, I keep thinking there should have been more.

Pity the BIG RED RESET BUTTON gets pushed again by the end but *shugs* what you gonna do? :cool: :rolleyes:

Linzi
December 12th, 2006, 04:02 AM
I loved this episode. It made me feel all teary! DH did a great job, and the scenes between he and Joe were fantastic, especially the meditation scene! Very good! I loved the team moments, and adored Zelenka here too. Not enough Teyla though, but at least her moments were good.
I sensed a little Weir/McKay shippiness, but it was quite amusing and sweet really, and as a non-shipper I don't take it seriously. However, I'm delighted for those who follow that pairing. Each deserves a snippet, IMO.
I loved so many parts of this, but especially the Shep/McKay interaction, though the Shep/Weir scenes were excellent too. Loved the Ronon/McKay hugs - really, really sweet and very emotional. So lots of great team moments and bonding etc... Hooray!
All in all a great episode, full of bits of humour - yes, Joe F is right, the best humour comes from intense moments of drama, and this episode proves that, IMO. So, a definite thumbs up from this fan. Makes up for last week's offering, thank goodness! :)

leelakin
December 12th, 2006, 04:09 AM
Oh, I loved this episode! (:
First of all, exploration of the city. Yay! I thought that McKay's new superpowers were really well done (super ego *lol*) and not overly cheesy or anything. I loved when he apologized to Zelenka, the poor guy so deserved it. The scene with Teyla was also sweet.

Also (sorry) i don't like how the writers are making Carson and Rodney so mean to eachother all the time this season. You wouldn't even think they were mates.
I agree partly. I love them being all snarky, yet I wish that Rodney's scene with Carson had been longer, not just a quick thank you when he thought he was about to die. I mean, he stole his donut, after all! That's almost unforgivable! (; No really, they have a special bond and that should've been shown.
I also loved the meditation scenes with John and Rodney and that we saw John and Elizabeth eating together in the mess hall.
The ending was sweet. don't get your hopes high, though, Rodney!

Almost forgot: The return of Chuck Campbell for the second half of this season! YAY!

Arctic Penguin
December 12th, 2006, 04:53 AM
I loved this ep. The teaser with mckay and zelenka sharing there miserable childhood stories was hilirious. The team moments were really well done and everyone was included although telya noticeably got less than everyone else. My favourite scene has to be mckay stealing carson donut then asking ronan if he wanted to be his sidekick.

chemicalNova
December 12th, 2006, 04:56 AM
I liked it. I obviously don't read into episodes as much as some of you, but at least it wasn't as boring or downright stupid as Irresponsible....man that ep sucked.

chem

The Ori
December 12th, 2006, 04:59 AM
I'm gonna watch it now!! Wow thats amazing, ahh Canadians!

female Wraith
December 12th, 2006, 05:48 AM
I love this episode! 9/10. It's like a fresh air after the episode from the last week.

McKay was absolutely cool. I liked everything in him, even his super ego:)
The scenes with Teyla, with Ronnon, with Sheppard and the top of the icecream was his book about Elizabeth - only 500 pages long!:)

I hope there will be more episodes like this one in the future.

rarocks24
December 12th, 2006, 06:03 AM
Much better than Irresponsible/Irresistable.

freyr's mother
December 12th, 2006, 06:08 AM
So is there any discovery of a new power source? Rodney doesn't give us any new weapons schematics or make any ZPM's with all of his knowledge and abilities?

sgeureka
December 12th, 2006, 06:33 AM
So is there any discovery of a new power source? Rodney doesn't give us any new weapons schematics or make any ZPM's with all of his knowledge and abilities?No, gateworld's description was somewhat misleading. There were one or two throw away remarks about ZPMs, but that was it.

Rodney said at the end of the ep that he wouldn't understand any of his notes anymore (and he didn't care to explain any of them while he was still super-smart).

We just learned that after you die but before you ascend, you'll feel as if you were in a black box or a dark place or something.

ECHO28
December 12th, 2006, 06:43 AM
Ok Incase the thread didnt warn ya , Im talking about a a spoiler,

so click Back - Back - Back , Look away , look away , Now!!
<<<
<
<
<
<
<
<<


ok in tao, shaeppard an weir were at the table talking about rodney;s acension prob , an weir suggests that sheppard help cause he helped the ancients acend , an he said something about living with them for 6 mths???

When was this? did I miss something ? Cause I know there saying it Aired outta order , but in 'Sunday;; Ol shep dont like live w/ anicents does he?

Neutschi
December 12th, 2006, 06:47 AM
no it was an season 2 episode called "epiphany" i guess you missed that one

Red_Rabbit
December 12th, 2006, 06:47 AM
I keep hearing references to Shep spending 6 months with Ancients trying to ascend, I'm totaly blanking on what ep that was can someone remind me.

kirmit
December 12th, 2006, 06:48 AM
Ok Incase the thread didnt warn ya , Im talking about a a spoiler,

so click Back - Back - Back , Look away , look away , Now!!
<<<
<
<
<
<
<
<<


ok in tao, shaeppard an weir were at the table talking about rodney;s acension prob , an weir suggests that sheppard help cause he helped the ancients acend , an he said something about living with them for 6 mths???

When was this? did I miss something ? Cause I know there saying it Aired outta order , but in 'Sunday;; Ol shep dont like live w/ anicents does he?

In 'Epiphany' sheppard was in that time bubble with those people where time went alot faster, so 6 months to him would've only been a few days in the real world.

Buzz Lightyear
December 12th, 2006, 06:49 AM
I have no words for this. Embarrassed to say I actually cried.

*wipes eyes*

It was just. There wasn't a single moment I didn't love. I cannot believe they made an ep like this. The only thing that would have improved it would be to have more Teyla.

And now it's finally true: Rodney McKay can heal puppies with his brain!

It was a great episode. I also teared up - no doubt in much the same parts as you did.

Arlessiar
December 12th, 2006, 06:51 AM
Ok, I think I'm able to talk coherently again after watching the new ep. I actually cried while watching it, something that doesn't happen often when I watch a SciFi show! *g*

"The tao of Rodney" is from now on my new favourite episode of SGA, I think. Because it was really very good. It had everything in it I waited for for a long time, everything I already didn't expect to see anymore. Yes, this ep also had two or three moments I didn't like so much, but overall I love it, because it had a fantastic Rodney and great team moments in it.

Rodney's inner thoughts and his anxieties, how he uses science to hide his insecurities and fears. John helping Rodney with the ascension thing. The really serious whump this time (Ronon carrying Rodney!), including a bedside vigil, confessions, the open concern of Rodney's team/friends. Rodney going to all his friends, telling or showing them that he cares about them. And then they do the same in return and tell him that they care for him, too. Rodney saving Radek's life. Childhood stories.

Oh my, I'm seriously ridiculously happy about this episode! :D

David acts tremendously good in this episode! Poor man, I bet filming this episode wasn't easy. Not only because he's in it a lot and also has difficult scenes, but because he had to learn so many lines! Rodney not only talks three times as much as usual, he also says out loud what the others are thinking because he can read their minds! So David had to learn their lines too in a way. Good thing Rodney "blocked out the thoughts" of the others later, or David would have been the only person talking in this episode. :D

I bet the McWeir shippers go bonkers now, btw, because of the last scene. ;)
Not my cup of tea though, I'm not a McWeir shipper, but a McShep slasher, and hey, this episode had potential when I watch it with my slash goggles on. So many great moments between Rodney and John! :)

What I didn't like so much was how the team made fun of Rodney because he eats so much. That was really mean, especially since it wasn't teasing (which would have been bad enough) but a private talk between John, Teyla and Ronon.

And the big reset button at the end I didn't like, too: Rodney's recovered, and the first thing he does when he wakes up is to snark at his friends immediately, as always. I surely don't want a softspoken, docile McKay on the show, no, but wouldn't he be at least a bit confused or shaken after such a life-changing moment and not in full snark mode as soons as he opens his eyes?

Anyway, I think it was a fantastic episode with great team interactions.

9/10 stars from me. :)

Bye, A.

Arlessiar
December 12th, 2006, 06:52 AM
I keep hearing references to Shep spending 6 months with Ancients trying to ascend, I'm totaly blanking on what ep that was can someone remind me. Epsiode number 2x12 "Epiphany"

Summary of Epiphany at GW (http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/212.shtml)

Bye, A.

Red_Rabbit
December 12th, 2006, 06:54 AM
Epsiode number 2x12 "Epiphany"

Summary of Epiphany at GW (http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/212.shtml)

Bye, A.

Thanks.

just_tudy
December 12th, 2006, 07:02 AM
i have a question is tao of mckay ep 14?
cause i was under the impression that this Monday they were supposed to air ep 14 which was Sunday according to gateworld

Buzz Lightyear
December 12th, 2006, 07:07 AM
I honestly don't know what to make of this episode. It didn't play as well as I hoped it would, and it seemed very rushed.

As I said not sure how I feel about this one, I will need to re-watched it, it feels almost like half an idea or episode, I keep thinking there should have been more.

Pity the BIG RED RESET BUTTON gets pushed again by the end but *shugs* what you gonna do? :cool: :rolleyes:

Actually, I disagree that the "reset button" was pushed. No doubt you're referring to Rodney surviving at the end. Though physically and mentally, he's back to his previous state, I believe his psyche has been changed dramatically and that evolution has remained intact.

In addition, during his "super Rodney" state, he managed to improve the ZPM power usage in Atlantis, strengthen the shields of the Daedalus, create a virtual prototype for a hyperspace generator for puddle jumpers, and invent a new math that will take Earth scientists decades to even begin to understand. The first three should have immediate ramifications in upcoming episodes.

Buzz Lightyear
December 12th, 2006, 07:11 AM
i have a question is tao of mckay ep 14?
cause i was under the impression that this Monday they were supposed to air ep 14 which was Sunday according to gateworld

Tao Of Rodney is episode 3x15. Episode 14 was skipped over for some reason. Presumably, the out of order airing is just a programming oversight.

ata_beckett
December 12th, 2006, 07:14 AM
Oh man, oh man. I just watched this episode (Tuesday mornings have become SGA mornings-- wee!) and I thought it was absolutely fantastic. I love that we're finally getting a little more backstory and development on the characters this season.

Zelenka, Zelenka, Zelenka. I'm so happy that we're seeing more and more of him, and I thought that he was fantastic in this episode (with the anecdotes of his childhood in the cold open-- Hah!)

I'm getting a bit tired of SGA becoming 'The Rodney Show', :mckay: but I didn't mind it TOO much in this episode. I would have liked a little more Teyla though-- particularly during some of the meditation scenes.

Favorite scene? The infirmary and the donut! Fantastic.

(HAAAH Batman and Ronon.)

Also, can someone explain exactly HOW they fixed the whole mess? I can't, for the life of me, figure out how just putting him back in the machine worked. :confused:

Buzz Lightyear
December 12th, 2006, 07:31 AM
Also, can someone explain exactly HOW they fixed the whole mess?

According to McKay's explanation, the Ancient device didn't have any built-in way to reverse the genetic alteration procedure, i.e. no "undo" feature, because everyone's genetic structure is unique... bla bla bla. To me, this "flaw" of the Ancient technology is too convenient and only existed so they could ramp up the tension. In the end, McKay realized, while in his near-Ascension zen state that the machine just needed a precise reference point and using his stored blood sample (which exists for all Atlantis personnel), they were able to re-program the device to restore his genetic structure.

It seems highly improbable that Ancient scientists didn't have the foresight to take genetic "snapshots" of everyone on whom they decided to use a gene manipulation device, but hey, I can overlook that plot contrivance because the overall episode was so good.

ata_beckett
December 12th, 2006, 07:36 AM
Ooooh, I see.

There was just a lot of technobabble at the end there, and all I could think was 'HOW did they push the big red reset button THIS time?' :mckayanime22:

ShoDar
December 12th, 2006, 07:44 AM
WhooHoo! That was good. :) Rodney was a wee bit too annoying...but then he also realised how annoying he was towards the end, so I guess that makes sense. I probably wouldn't have noticed the "Rodney, rodney, rodney" of this episode if I hadn't turned on my TV expecting "Sunday".

And there was Zalenka!!! Yay!

Favourite part: anything to do with Ronon, especially "Can I shoot him now?" and the physical healing hug...followed of course by the "my family" hug at the end :)


One other thing that I loved was that John was busy pointing out how arrogant and annoying the ancients are/were but Weir hasn't fallen out of love with them yet. It was an interesting character note.



Yep, as the rumoured reason for the switch is...

Carson is killed off/disappears in 'Sunday' but the actor, Paul McGillion, talked about being in at least Toa and The Ark, so it wouldn't have made sense to air 'Sunday' first...

I believe someone posted that 'Sunday' will air as ep 17/18 on one of the assicoated rumour threads, so after Xmas in Canada as next week is the last ep before it returns in the New Year.

Hmm, that's an interesting thing. If it's true, at least somebody caught it before airing!


I have no words for this. Embarrassed to say I actually cried.

*wipes eyes*

Me too! I started getting weepy when Zalenka got hurt (not Radek!Noooo) and then when Rodney collapsed...wow...just the acceptance of his fate in his eyes... *sniff*




I have nothing bad to say about this episode, other than the general "TPTB didn't mix the team very much". Don't get me wrong, most of the scenes were very funny, but I was waiting for the logical conclusion to put McKay with Teyla for meditation, not Sheppard. It was a live-and-death situation after all.

And I know TPTB would never change McKay's attitude in future episodes (they would be stupid if they did), but I wasn't expecting McKay to be back to being a jerk right at the end of this episode. I can't say if it would have worked better to end this ep with a I'mSorry!McKay like in Trinity and only cut back to Jerk!McKay next episode.

<snip>

I actually thought the meditation stuff worked better with Shep. I get the feeling that Rodney and Teyla aren't very close. Plus her people have never ascended and meditation is not all the same, so it made sense to me that the ascending meditation "expert" would be more involved.

I also felt a little taken aback by normal-McKay at the end, but when I stop to think about it...he's done all his sorry/"I really care"/"I did this for you" stuff during the episode and had the response from the team. I think that's why he made such a deal about Elizabeth saying "We love you". He had the acceptance of how awful he is sometimes followed by his attempts to make ammends followed by the reassurance that his friends love him even with his faults.

ata_beckett
December 12th, 2006, 07:44 AM
Six months was actually something like a few hours in the real world.:sheppard:

nonniemous
December 12th, 2006, 08:15 AM
I honestly don't know what to make of this episode. It didn't play as well as I hoped it would, and it seemed very rushed.

What you said. I liked it a great deal, but I'm not experiencing the levels of "squee" I'm seeing from my friends who are diehard Rodney fans. I keep hearing "favorite episode EVAH" type comments, and I'm still far too much in love with "Phantoms" for that to work for me.

What I did love were Rodney's attempts to make things right with everyone. I loved all of that, from the tea ceremony to his apology to Radek, but especially, especially his healing Ronon's scars--and making sure it was all right before he did anything. The shortness of his "goodbye" with Carson bothered me. But then again, I think he's got a fairly close friendship with Carson as well as John, and he didn't need to say anything to John so it works for me that he would have the same kind of reaction with Carson.

LOVED him insisting on Elizabeth's affections for him at the end. ;-)

All in all, a good episode, and one that grows on me as I think about it--which is usually the best test for me. Rewatchability is a huge factor in my mind, and this definitely has that. Not my absolute favorite by a long shot, but another episode that helps make up for Season 2. (And you knew this was coming--one more graphic exhibit of why they need Carson in Atlantis.)

SGAFan
December 12th, 2006, 08:16 AM
I am so glad I wasn't the only one that got teary eyed (aw heck, okay, I cried!) in this ep. That's a rare thing, I just don't cry at tv shows very much. ;)

Fantastic episode! More team and character moments then you can shake a stick at. *is very happy*

current mood: Content!! :D

Linzi
December 12th, 2006, 08:43 AM
I am so glad I wasn't the only one that got teary eyed (aw heck, okay, I cried!) in this ep. That's a rare thing, I just don't cry at tv shows very much. ;)

Fantastic episode! More team and character moments then you can shake a stick at. *is very happy*

current mood: Content!! :D
Oh ok, I cried too! :) :) :)

Arlessiar
December 12th, 2006, 08:44 AM
I just watched the episode again, and I couldn't believe it when I saw that they screwed up again regarding the German flag uniform patch! They already did that wrong in another epsiode in season three, the patch was upside down the whole time then. It was a soldier in that ep who wore the patch the wrong way, now it was a scientist, right in the very first scene.

We actually laughed about the flag mistake with Paul McGillion at a German con a few weeks ago. He, who has nothing to do with that of course, was actually a bit embarrassed that something like that had happened.
And now the costume department made that wrong again. How hard can it be? It's 'black red gold', not the other way round.

Bye, A.

majortrip
December 12th, 2006, 08:45 AM
I liked this episode very much.:)

Loved how McKay went about trying to make sure everything's settled and okay with his 'family'. I liked Dr. Weir trying to guide him through the process and assuring him that he was a good person. I think everyone know's McKay's ego and him mouth compensate for his feelings about himself, but it was nice to hear Elizabeth say it out loud and reassure him. I was especially tickled with him teasing her at the end and writing a book about her. Someone's got a crush I think.

Good to see Zelenka quite a bit in this ep, and the thoughtful side of McKay. The ceremony for Teyla's father and the scars on Ronon's back were considerations I'd not thought McKay would notice.

I'm not surprised we got the same old McKay back so quickly, though, so that didn't bother me.

Overall, a very enjoyable episode, and for me, at least, a vast improvement over last week's show. I sincerely hope, though, that we get these kinds of character episodes for ALL the cast. I liked this one, but it would be nice to spread the love and show us more of the other characters as well.

Linzi
December 12th, 2006, 08:47 AM
I liked this episode very much.:)

Loved how McKay went about trying to make sure everything's settled and okay with his 'family'. I liked Dr. Weir trying to guide him through the process and assuring him that he was a good person. I think everyone know's McKay's ego and him mouth compensate for his feelings about himself, but it was nice to hear Elizabeth say it out loud and reassure him. I was especially tickled with him teasing her at the end and writing a book about her. Someone's got a crush I think.

Good to see Zelenka quite a bit in this ep, and the thoughtful side of McKay. The ceremony for Teyla's father and the scars on Ronon's back were considerations I'd not thought McKay would notice.

I'm not surprised we got the same old McKay back so quickly, though, so that didn't bother me.

Overall, a very enjoyable episode, and for me, at least, a vast improvement over last week's show. I sincerely hope, though, that we get these kinds of character episodes for ALL the cast. I liked this one, but it would be nice to spread the love and show us more of the other characters as well.
I agree. This was wonderful, but I'd like to see my favourite character get something similar down the line too! :)

twinchaosblade
December 12th, 2006, 08:50 AM
The shortness of his "goodbye" with Carson bothered me. But then again, I think he's got a fairly close friendship with Carson as well as John, and he didn't need to say anything to John so it works for me that he would have the same kind of reaction with Carson.
(And you knew this was coming--one more graphic exhibit of why they need Carson in Atlantis.)

Since I think it is no secret any more that Carson will be leaving the show one way or the other, I guess they are saving some of that for the aftermath of his departure. :(

Just a thought.

SAVE CARSON!!!

Oka
December 12th, 2006, 09:14 AM
A whole lot better than Irresponsible that's for sure. Some great character moments in this episode, Rodney was hilarious and it was a fun episode. Not a big fan of the story, the whole deal with ascension was done to death in SG-1. I am actually surprised that SG:A hasn't really dealt with it until now.

I also had a hard time to suspend disbelief when it came to Rodney dying, I mean, you KNOW he wasn't going to die, also it was pretty obvious that he wasn't going to keep his powers, the end felt kind of rushed and of course the big fat reset button.

Good:
- I liked that they are exploring the city.
- Zelenka is a great character.
- I like that they mentioned that the ancients from "The Return"
- I like that they referenced old SG-1 episodes
- Was funny.
- McKay was over the top at times but it worked in this episode.

Not so good:
- A little too McKay focused, should maybe had two story lines in this episode, felt kind of empty in this sense.
- I did not like the idea with the Ascension machine or the fact that you could measure how close someone is to Ascension. It sort of belittles everything the Ancients are, almost retcon. Reminds me of the deal with the midicloriands (sp?) in the new Star Wars movies.
- Too much like "The Fifth Race": ancient device causes character to become powerful but also almost kills him.
- The end felt kind of rushed.
- No continuation, what's up with the wraiths, the replicators, what about the midway station?

All in all it was a hard episode to dislike, it was funny, the storyline didn't really work for me but I know a lot of people will love it, some great character moments.

ata_beckett
December 12th, 2006, 10:30 AM
I totally didn't catch it before, but there's this great little moment in the cafeteria, right after Rodney overhears everyone talking about him, when he telekinetically moves his tablet to his hand without noticing.

HAH!

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 10:47 AM
John called the morons in "Epiphany" "a bunch of pansy wannabes". Hah! He hates Teer, too! XD

Ignore the fact that he later says she's attractive. He probably thought she was an attractive pansy wannabe.

silence
December 12th, 2006, 10:47 AM
ok... i didn't read comments, so here is what i think.
i loved it.

it's all i want from SGA... character moments, humor, exploration of city...
yes, it was Rodney-centric, but it was great. i'll watch it again after reading comments here.

i loved all the comments about Ancients, about team members... how McKay acted... it was all i like in SGA.


i wish we can get more eps like this one.

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 10:56 AM
Why didn't they just go back to whatever planet Chaya lives on to ask her to tell Rodney how to Ascend? They could at least entertain the idea and come to the conclusion it'd be breaking rules or whatever.

ccdsah
December 12th, 2006, 11:01 AM
Why didn't they just go back to whatever planet Chaya lives on to ask her to tell Rodney how to Ascend? They could at least entertain the idea and come to the conclusion it'd be breaking rules or whatever.

MHOs
1. They (the writers) forgot about her.
2. It would be too easy.
3. The actress wasn't available
.
.
.

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 11:04 AM
Oh I dunno... he said she was attractive... ;) :p

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 11:05 AM
MHOs
1. They (the writers) forgot about her.
2. It would be too easy.
3. The actress wasn't available
.
.
.
Probably #1. They could at least have discussed doing it and then come up with that she wouldn't help them, anyway.

Luz
December 12th, 2006, 11:05 AM
Oh goodie, so then we'd have people b***** because Sheppard said Chaya's name, or because he was in the proximity when someone said Chaya's name, no thanks.

psychofilly
December 12th, 2006, 11:15 AM
Oh I dunno... he said she was attractive... ;) :p
LOL, I'm sure he thought she was attractive, but I thought Epiphany made it clear that Ascension wasn't his bag. She was just the only hot babe in town and it had been six months. :sheppard: A man has needs.

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 11:25 AM
LOL, I'm sure he thought she was attractive, but I thought Epiphany made it clear that Ascension wasn't his bag. She was just the only hot babe in town and it had been six months. :sheppard: A man has needs.

Indeed. :D :D I'm just saying... he didn't "hate" her... ;) :D

silence
December 12th, 2006, 11:25 AM
I think reason is... do we really want McKay to ascend?
NOPE.

He is great for what he is.... that's main reason why they didn't go there.
Ascended McKay woul prolly hurt show... we need him as he is now.

That's how i see it.

saberhagen83
December 12th, 2006, 11:25 AM
Now we are back to the the kind of eps that makes me love this show! After a very dissapointing "Irresponsible" last week this was a great ep. Perhaps a bit too much focused on McKay though, like the idea that was said by someone earlier that they could have used two stoylines in this one to put some more focus on the others as well.

Great character moments, great humor, exploring the city, all that is needed for a great ep. Really liked the moments between McKay/Weir and McKay/Shep, we got a few of those here, and I really thought Ronon was more involved and animated here, liking him more and more this season! Obviously a bit predictable again at the end there, but it was done better than the last ep. This ep felt like some sort of mix with a few eps from SG1, mostly reminded me of my favorite "Fifth Race". But I still enjoyed it very much. Another great episode this season, not my top 5 this season, but just behind that pack. So many good to choose from it seems ;).

rarocks24
December 12th, 2006, 11:26 AM
Tao Of Rodney is episode 3x15. Episode 14 was skipped over for some reason. Presumably, the out of order airing is just a programming oversight.

Actually, no. Beckett is supposed to disappear in the episode Sunday, hence it would not make sense to run Sunday this week and have Beckett disappear, and have Beckett show up again, and then just disappear again. Sunday is going to show (if that's the episode he disappears in) right before Vengeance, after the Ark. The next episode is probably going to be Submersion and then the Game after the holidays. Then The Ark, then Sunday, then Vengeance, then, First Strike.

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 11:29 AM
I think reason is... do we really want McKay to ascend?
NOPE.

He is great for what he is.... that's main reason why they didn't go there.
Ascended McKay woul prolly hurt show... we need him as he is now.

That's how i see it.
The whole point of the end of the episode was that Rodney could have Ascended. All he actually needs is another dose of Ascend-O-Machine and then wait 'til his synaptic activity reaches 97% and then go down to 0.3 Hz again.

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 11:32 AM
What, you only hate unattractive people? I don't discriminate. I hate equally.

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 11:37 AM
So, Rodney figured out tons of stuff and also how to reverse the effects. Apparentely, there was no damage to his body (well, major damage, anyway).

So whenever they need something brilliant, he could just revisit the machine, muck around for a day or two and then change back. Or better yet, have a whole bunch of people do it!

Of course, using it to actually Ascend is a whole other issue. We wouldn't want Kavanagh Ascending, but if they fail to, we can always reverse it. And Rodney figured out how to Ascend, anyway, so he could hold "How to Ascend for Dummies" seminars.

There's also the matter of it maybe turning people into oozing gloop, but Rodney's first time was successful. So unless it randomly turns people into gloop, at least he can use it again. If not, then just sacrifice a lesser being, like, some scientist of the soft sciences if you need some brilliant ideas quickly.

The point is, the writers should not forget about the machine. At least let us see it (or hear about it) being destroyed or something.

psychofilly
December 12th, 2006, 11:44 AM
What, you only hate unattractive people? I don't discriminate. I hate equally.

No, we're talking about John, and so far he hasn't slept or flirted with anyone unnatractive. He may dissagree with Teer's philosophy, be he still finds her shaggable.

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 11:46 AM
EXTRA! EXTRA!

I've found the quote which wins the thread (from Gateworld's transcript of "Epiphany"):
TEER: Well, they came generations ago. I'm from a race of people who revered those who came before us, those who created this place.

IT'S CONCLUSIVE! THEY WERE NOT ANCIENTS AND JOHN KNEW THEY WEREN'T!

Stupid writers.

Again the writers made a big mistake. Those people weren't Ancients. At least they shouldn't have been.

The Ancients already knew how to Ascend normally. Yet they needed to use the Sanctuary even though they could evacuate through the Gate? Also, it took them "generations" to figure it out?

They'd also been in there for "generations". A generation inside of the field is a few years. They'd to have been in there for 2,500,000 years to make up for the 10,000 years between when the Ancients left and 'til now.

John also said all of the Ancients he'd met were arrogant and condescending. Those "Ancients" in "Epiphany" were stupid and helpless.

Bottom line is: Most people agree they were just random people who wandered in there; not Ancients.

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 11:46 AM
No, we're talking about John, and so far he hasn't slept or flirted with anyone unnatractive. He may dissagree with Teer's philosophy, be he still finds her shaggable.
And I said: What, you don't think John can think attractive people are stupid?

Besides, this episode had lot of McShep hints, as usual (all of the new ones do!). He could've said it to make Rodney jealous :P. He probably thought she was attractive, was horny, had sex with her but afterwards realized she was a pansy wannabe (and stupid to boot).

psychofilly
December 12th, 2006, 11:52 AM
And I said: What, you don't think John can think attractive people are stupid?

That's not what you said.

He can find them stupid, but he can sleep with them anyway. Besides, he's gained a bit more insight into Ancients and Ascension since he was with Teer. He might not have been gung ho for ascending himself in Epiphany, but he seemed to genuinely like Teer. Now his views against ascension are even stronger, and I'm sure that colors his perceptions of her. I honestly don't think Shep would bag a babe he dissagreed so strongly with, though I might joke about it.

ETA: As for the McShep, I can't wait to see this ep. All the slashers I know are quite squeefull over the episode.

neoncrazy101
December 12th, 2006, 11:52 AM
man i was so sure that McKay was going to ascend and then take human form...but no he has to stay living lol... overall a good episode.. i loved it when he hugged Ronan and was like "hope you dont mind i just healed them" that was cool.

xfkirsten
December 12th, 2006, 11:55 AM
Loved this one! I really loved that all of the team pulled together to help Rodney through it. I think one of my favorite segments was when Rodney went around to each person and did something kind for them (healing Ronon's scars, writing the book supporting Elizabeth's actions, having tea with Teyla) - it was so wonderful to see again that he really is a very caring person, as much as he hides it under his snarky exterior. And the last scene where he insists that Elizabeth loves him was just adorable! :D I'm not a McWeir shipper at all, but even I gotta admit I saw something there, as one-way as it may have been. :p

Iambob
December 12th, 2006, 11:56 AM
uh how does this relate to The Tow of Rodney?????

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 11:59 AM
uh how does this relate to The Tow of Rodney?????
Did you watch the episode?


That's not what you said.

He can find them stupid, but he can sleep with them anyway. Besides, he's gained a bit more insight into Ancients and Ascension since he was with Teer. He might not have been gung ho for ascending himself in Epiphany, but he seemed to genuinely like Teer. Now his views against ascension are even stronger, and I'm sure that colors his perceptions of her. I honestly don't think Shep would bag a babe he dissagreed so strongly with, though I might joke about it.

ETA: As for the McShep, I can't wait to see this ep. All the slashers I know are quite squeefull over the episode.
Every single episode in the 2nd half of season 3 has been full of Squee. They're doing it on purpose!

They even threw in a special "No! We're not sleeping together! Not!"-line that's so "Oh, they're so doing it" XD.

I mean, the 2nd half is McShep heaven. The McShep Lovetap in "The Return (part II)", the fact that Rodney doesn't even have to do a farewell-thing with John even though he did it with everyone else in "Tao" (along with other things like that one line).

Luz
December 12th, 2006, 12:03 PM
And I said: What, you don't think John can think attractive people are stupid?

Besides, this episode had lot of McShep hints, as usual (all of the new ones do!). He could've said it to make Rodney jealous :P. He probably thought she was attractive, was horny, had sex with her but afterwards realized she was a pansy wannabe (and stupid to boot).

Projecting much?, ;) I thought he liked her okay, at least enough to sleep with her. As for him thinking she was stupid, I didn't see any of it *on the show*.
This episode had hints for a lot of pairings, McKay everyone practically, McKay/Ronon, McKay/Teyla, McKay/Weir, and there was Sheppard/Weir too (but there has always been a lot of it :P).
And I'm sure people who like other pairings saw hints for theirs too. Sometimes it seems the writers are trying to please everyone.

silence
December 12th, 2006, 12:06 PM
Again the writers made a big mistake. Those people weren't Ancients. At least they shouldn't have been.

The Ancients already knew how to Ascend normally. Yet they needed to use the Sanctuary even though they could evacuate through the Gate? Also, it took them "generations" to figure it out?

They'd also been in there for "generations". A generation inside of the field is a few years. They'd to have been in there for 2,500,000 years to make up for the 10,000 years between when the Ancients left and 'til now.

John also said all of the Ancients he'd met were arrogant and condescending. Those "Ancients" in "Epiphany" were stupid and helpless.

Bottom line is: Most people agree they were just random people who wandered in there; not Ancients.

yap... i agree.... i was "WTF???" when i heard that part.
it was clear they werent Ancients in that ep.
(at least to me)

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 12:07 PM
Projecting much?, ;) I thought he liked her okay, at least enough to sleep with her. As for him thinking she was stupid, I didn't see any of it *on the show*.
This episode had hints for a lot of pairings McKay everyone practically, McKay/Ronon, McKay/Teyla, McKay/Weir, and there was Sheppard/Weir too (but there has always been a lot of it :P).
And I'm sure people who like other pairings saw hints for theirs too. Sometimes it seems the writers are trying to please everyone.
Yes, because John's shown sooooo much restraint against sleeping with women who throw themselves at him. The writers wrote "The Tower" to leave it up to the viewers to determine whether he slept with Princess Sluttina or not.

Yes, the McNon hugs were funny. And very gay :D. Of course, they're rationalizing it as "Manly Hugging". There wasn't much McTeyla, though. All he did was have some weird tea ceremony with her to honor her dead father. It's not shipping material. McWeir, though. But that's obvious shipping material.

The McShep was very subtle, as usual. In fact, it was so "subtle" this time it was overly obvious. John acted the way a lover would act if thier lover was about to die (or a reaaaaally close friend).

And the whole "The way a friend loves another friend"-line was so slashy.

Arlessiar
December 12th, 2006, 12:23 PM
I totally didn't catch it before, but there's this great little moment in the cafeteria, right after Rodney overhears everyone talking about him, when he telekinetically moves his tablet to his hand without noticing.HAH! Hehe, I also didn't notice that the first time I watched the ep, I noticed it when I made caps and watched the ep again for that. :)

Other things I noticed or thought about:

- They have new beds in the infirmary. They still have the old ones too, but now they also have larger ones that look like real hospital beds and not just like a better gurney.
- Ronon drinks Evian! :D
- Rodney's hair looks funny in this ep, so... uncombed. Not that I don't like that. :D Wonder if they did that because David always complains about his receeding hairline. *g*
- Rodney eats a lot of funny stuff. Someone on the RM thread explained that the cup on the table in lab with the japanese writing on the lid contained something with mango
- Why does Weir wear an analogue watch when the days on Atlantis have more than 24 hours? Maybe it's possible to set the digital watches most of them wear to Atlantis Standard time somehow, but surely not an analogue watch. :)
- I want to met these people who wrote all these equations on the whiteboard for this ep. :D
- In the RM thread we sometimes discussed if Rodney/David is ambidextrous or not. Judging from the scene in the lab it seems Rodney is ambidextrous in this ep. Maybe it's just because Rodney's brain activity increases so much, but maybe it means that at least DH is ambidextrous.


Are there already translations somewhere for the sentences Radek says in Czech?


Bye, A.

ata_beckett
December 12th, 2006, 12:27 PM
From the GW Transcription of Epiphany:


WEIR: OK, I think I've got it. (She turns away from the inscribed wall that she has been studying.) I am interpreting a bit, but it seems the field was designed as a sanctuary from the Wraith, but a place the last of the Ancients could travel to and hopefully ascend without fear of attack.

Then she goes on to say...

WEIR (turning back to the wall): This writing here -- this serves as a sort of welcome, as well as a warning for any of the humans under their protection looking for sanctuary; but I think it was left there for anyone who wanted to seek the path to ascension on their own.


I dunno, I kinda feel like it could go either way in terms of whether or not they were Ancients. The whole deal with them not ascending for so long was that Mr. Inviso-beast was the last burden that they had to bare before Ascension (Beast of Burden, get it?).

xfkirsten
December 12th, 2006, 12:31 PM
- Why does Weir wear an analogue watch when the days on Atlantis have more than 24 hours? Maybe it's possible to set the digital watches most of them wear to Atlantis Standard time somehow, but surely not an analogue watch. :)

I remember that question coming up a few times in the Weir threads when the series began, as well. We never got an answer to that. :p

ata_beckett
December 12th, 2006, 12:32 PM
- Rodney eats a lot of funny stuff. Someone on the RM thread explained that the cup on the table in lab with the japanese writing on the lid contained something with mango

I was writing an episode recap, and I noticed all of the random stuff on his tray too. I swear, it looks like he just started picking at his food and somehow got the wrappers mixed in.

caty
December 12th, 2006, 12:46 PM
I just watched the episode again, and I couldn't believe it when I saw that they screwed up again regarding the German flag uniform patch! They already did that wrong in another epsiode in season three, the patch was upside down the whole time then. It was a soldier in that ep who wore the patch the wrong way, now it was a scientist, right in the very first scene.

We actually laughed about the flag mistake with Paul McGillion at a German con a few weeks ago. He, who has nothing to do with that of course, was actually a bit embarrassed that something like that had happened.
And now the costume department made that wrong again. How hard can it be? It's 'black red gold', not the other way round.

Bye, A.

It's starting to annoy the heck outta me.. I didn't really mind the first time, but making that mistake a second time is so thoughtless.. Do these people get paid?? Two mistakes like that is really unexcusable. And that's just the German flag (which I notice, of course ;)) Who knows how many other flags they have upside down sometimes :mad:

On the ep: I liked it.. More than I thought I would considering that it is a McKay ep. David was wonderful and Rodney can be so sweet if he wants to...
The apology to Zelenka and him just staring back with his mouth wide open - gave me the goosebumps...
I absolutely loved the first Shep-Weir scene when they were talking about the Ancients. Joe did a great job here, acting like a little boy :) Although I do find it odd that he'd call Chaya "condescending and arrogant"...

caty
December 12th, 2006, 12:52 PM
I don't think Shep meant Teer... He said 'a bunch of pansy wannabes' which doesn't neccessarily have to be everybody in town.
Teer was the only one brave enough to stand up for him when the "big scary monster" came to town, so I don't think he thinks that Teer is a pansy wannabe.
Everybody else - yes, but Teer - no...

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 12:59 PM
Just finished watching it and I really enjoyed it - lots of great team moments, lots of humour (I laughed out loud - a lot!), but also some great drama and some seriously touching scenes. The ending... well, the whole Rodney dying/saving Rodney scene was wonderful and really touching (and how lovely to have the team actually verbalise their feelings and tell Rodney they love him) and I *adored* Ronon's big hug of Rodney after he's revived... and the closing lines... Sheppard pestering Weir to let him use the machine to turn himself into a superhero? Soooo funny! *dies*

I kinda feel like this ep was McKay's Sateda... as much as Sateda was about Ronon and Tao was about Rodney, both of them were so much more than just their stories and along the way told us so much about the team and their friendships.

There were so many little moments that I loved and so many wonderful interactions...

Random thoughts:

Seeing Weir actually get to contribute, using her knowledge of Ancient language and culture
Exploring the city! Yay! Finding new rooms and new technology! Yay! :D
Rodney in the chair totally reminded me of Barclay in The Nth Degree ;)
Continuity! Mention of Halling - see the Athosians still exist!! Actual references to previous events in the show - Sheppard turning into a bug, Sheppard spending time with Ancients! Yay!
Lots of Zelenka and he was great too - Rodney's apology to him was perfect and really moving
Sheppard trying to teach Rodney how to medidate - :lol:
Sooo... who was the cute scientist thinking was hot? ;) :D
Rodney having the entire conversation all by himself, responding to everyone else's points before they make them! :D
Rodney facing up to himself and making amends/bidding farewell to everyone
Rodney and Ronon's hug - couldn't decide whether to laugh or to cry.. or both
The team bidding farewell in the infirmary... I was tearing up...
The sudden drama at the end - I was on the egde of my seat!


All in all, this was a thoroughly good ep. I really enjoyed it. :D

caty
December 12th, 2006, 01:01 PM
You lazy little thing, Ali! You just did the copy&paste for the first part of your post :lol:

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 01:18 PM
And the big reset button at the end I didn't like, too: Rodney's recovered, and the first thing he does when he wakes up is to snark at his friends immediately, as always. I surely don't want a softspoken, docile McKay on the show, no, but wouldn't he be at least a bit confused or shaken after such a life-changing moment and not in full snark mode as soons as he opens his eyes?


I actually thought his reaction immediately on reviving was very in character - it reminded me very much of Hot Zone where he was convinced he was going to die, was waiting to die and then didn't and his reaction was just happiness, giddiness, excited, "I'm not dead!" and this felt the same.


Tao Of Rodney is episode 3x15. Episode 14 was skipped over for some reason. Presumably, the out of order airing is just a programming oversight.

It's unlikely they would accidentally air the wrong episode.. it's more likely the airing order of the show has been altered and episodes swapper... exactly as they did with Sateda and Irresistible earlier this season.


Actually, no. Beckett is supposed to disappear in the episode Sunday, hence it would not make sense to run Sunday this week and have Beckett disappear, and have Beckett show up again, and then just disappear again. Sunday is going to show (if that's the episode he disappears in) right before Vengeance, after the Ark. The next episode is probably going to be Submersion and then the Game after the holidays. Then The Ark, then Sunday, then Vengeance, then, First Strike.

We don't actually know in which episode Carson "disappears". There have been lots of rumours but nothing definite that I've seen... all we know is that it happens towards the end of Season 3 and we know that he is definitely in The Ark. It may not even be Sunday in which we lose Carson and it may simply have been swapped with Tao of Rodney in the airing order. Guess we'll just have to wait till next week to find out...


You lazy little thing, Ali! You just did the copy&paste for the first part of your post :lol:

Well, hey.. it summed up my feelings pretty well so I figured why reinvent the wheel? ;) :D :D

TJuk
December 12th, 2006, 01:20 PM
AWESOME episode. I was a little worried it would be ANOTHER 'tour de force McKay' ep (didn't really enjoy GUP...was good...just not something I'd watch again) but this was fab. McKay firmly at the centre but creating all those wonderful little character moments that are what this show SHOULD be all about!!! Loads of great oneliners, loads of great little personal moments, new things learned and yeah, while their were minor plot holes...well who gives a crap I was too busy LOVING it to care (which is another important diff between a good and bad ep).

Would have liked more Carson aside from the technobabble (they are supposed to be the best of friends after all!!!) and more Teyla. And yes big red reset button, but it worked, didn't deflate the story IMO and had that wonderful Ronon hug moment with the little look between Rodney and Carson!

Why cant they write eps like this all the time????

Luz
December 12th, 2006, 01:26 PM
yap... i agree.... i was "WTF???" when i heard that part.
it was clear they werent Ancients in that ep.
(at least to me)

They weren't ancients, were they?, I thought it was made clear, so this is yet another instance of the writers forgetting to get their facts straight, what-a-shocker.
Sometimes I wonder, do they watch their own show?, last time I saw Epiphany was like six months ago and I still remember, it's not too hard to check.

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 01:41 PM
They were descendents of the Ancients who went there to ascend - I'm pretty sure Teer mentions that to Sheppard, telling him they are the last of the descendants of those who travelled to that place to ascend. Not all Ancients automatically gained the ability to ascend at the same time - it is a personal event, a journey that each of them has to make alone.

Melyanna
December 12th, 2006, 01:50 PM
Haven't seen the episode yet, but just wanted to say this: episodes are filmed out of order in this franchise all the time. They can do that because they're filmed so far in advance. They usually do this to accommodate the actors' schedules, whether it's a regular character or a guest. In the first season, Thirty-Eight Minutes was filmed before Hide and Seek and Home before Underground, and in the second season, Michael was filmed before The Long Goodbye and Coup d'État. And I think in SG-1 there was a time when they would literally film two episodes at once.

GW's episode order is all guesswork. Usually it's pretty close, but not always perfect.

JohnSheppard28
December 12th, 2006, 02:03 PM
Yes, because John's shown sooooo much restraint against sleeping with women who throw themselves at him. The writers wrote "The Tower" to leave it up to the viewers to determine whether he slept with Princess Sluttina or not.

Yes, the McNon hugs were funny. And very gay :D. Of course, they're rationalizing it as "Manly Hugging". There wasn't much McTeyla, though. All he did was have some weird tea ceremony with her to honor her dead father. It's not shipping material. McWeir, though. But that's obvious shipping material.

The McShep was very subtle, as usual. In fact, it was so "subtle" this time it was overly obvious. John acted the way a lover would act if thier lover was about to die (or a reaaaaally close friend).

And the whole "The way a friend loves another friend"-line was so slashy.


At the end of the tower they actually put in lines where John says, "I even got the girl" to which Weir says, "You GOT the girl?!" and John says, "Well, I mean I could have got the girl, I turned her down." I suppose though that that could mean he turned her down the first time when she threw herself at him or it could mean she tried to get him to stay at the end and she turned him down then.

Here's something funny that the McShep people would like. In the book Halycon, which I actually didn't like all that much, there's a scene where Teyla says something or other and the people they're talking to assume she's John's concubine and question why he's letting her talk. He denies that that's what she is and the people immediately turn and look at Rodney who doesn't get it at first and then says, "Oh good grief no!" and John chimes in with "We don't....we're not....that doesn't apply to us..." It's actually the funniest thing about that book. :D

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Oh look. Yet another episode discussion thread derailing into "John is a slut and every woman he has ever smiled at is a brazen hussy" *sigh*

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 02:17 PM
Re the episode order, see this post (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=6090255#post6090255) by Ken Cuperus - thanks Ken! :D

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 02:22 PM
I love Sheppard's summation of his abilities in this episode as, "I fought a scary monster; that's what I do best." :lol:

Avenger
December 12th, 2006, 02:40 PM
I hought about that too, but they said that the effects of the machine are completely unpredictable. There's no telling what it would do to anyone or if it would have the same effects on the same person twice.

Avenger
December 12th, 2006, 02:44 PM
Again the writers made a big mistake. Those people weren't Ancients. At least they shouldn't have been.

The Ancients already knew how to Ascend normally. Yet they needed to use the Sanctuary even though they could evacuate through the Gate? Also, it took them "generations" to figure it out?

They'd also been in there for "generations". A generation inside of the field is a few years. They'd to have been in there for 2,500,000 years to make up for the 10,000 years between when the Ancients left and 'til now.

John also said all of the Ancients he'd met were arrogant and condescending. Those "Ancients" in "Epiphany" were stupid and helpless.

Bottom line is: Most people agree they were just random people who wandered in there; not Ancients.

The ancients didn't necessarily know how to just up and acend. They wouldn't have invented the machine in the first place. While the people in "Epiphany" weren't Ancients, they could very well have been direct decendents.

Arlessiar
December 12th, 2006, 02:49 PM
I remember that question coming up a few times in the Weir threads when the series began, as well. We never got an answer to that. :p Maybe she's just used to wearing that watch and puts it on every morning automatically. :)

It's starting to annoy the heck outta me.. I didn't really mind the first time, but making that mistake a second time is so thoughtless.. Do these people get paid?? Two mistakes like that is really unexcusable. And that's just the German flag (which I notice, of course ;)) Who knows how many other flags they have upside down sometimes :mad: Didn't they already attach the Russian flag patch upside down once? Who knows how many others were wrong too. Like you I notice the German flag foremost. *g*

In the end it's not really a biggie. But I'm sure that would never happen with the flag of the USA. ;)
(It would also be easier to see when that flag is upside down because it's not symmetrical, I understand that just having stripes on a flag can be confusing *g*)

It just destroys the illusion of an international expedition a bit when you can see that the actor, who's most likely American or Canadian, plays a foreign character and doesn't wear 'his' national flag the right way.

Bye, A.

Dromag67
December 12th, 2006, 03:18 PM
Really an awesome all around classic Atlantis episode.

Awesome team moments, it will make the soon departure of Carson even harder to watch. :(

100% better than the last episode.

This is definently a good one to re-watch many times into the future.


lol @ Batman and Ronon

HyperCaz
December 12th, 2006, 03:26 PM
I really liked this episode :) I've been wanting to see more of this type of McKay since Hide & Seek. MCWEEEEEEEEEEEEEIR!!!!! :D

once more, with feeling - MCCCCCCCCWWWWWWEEEIIIIIRRR!

Now that's out of my system.

I think "pansy wannabees" is an accurate description of the Ancients...

Nice episode for team interaction and relationships, even if it was only with Rodney. The parts with Ronon were very touching. :) I hope Rodney retains some of his epiphanies from nearly ascending but as his character is enjoyed for snark, he'll probably just reset and stay the same. Oh well.

I'm thinking Carson is afraid of heights! :D

3 caps from the ep.. :)

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/HyperCaz/Tao%20Gen/tao44city.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/HyperCaz/Tao%20Gen/tao37radblast.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/HyperCaz/Tao%20Gen/taorod.jpg

Starxgate
December 12th, 2006, 03:53 PM
They should bring in Daniel to try out this machine. Since he has ascneded & de ascended twice (or more) & he understands & knows how to translate the ancient launguage Daniel would have better luck. That way there can be a super powered show down between Daniel & Adria.

McKayRocks!
December 12th, 2006, 03:59 PM
I have to say I love, adore and worship this ep! :)

Ali you summed it up as I would have wanted to if I was in anyway articulate (which I am not!) :lol:

What a difference a week makes! This ep and last weeks are at opposite ends of the spectrum for me - last week the worst ep ever and this week probably one of my favourite eps ever!

Mx

CalmStorm
December 12th, 2006, 04:08 PM
For now, I'll keep it short ....

I thought this was a great episode. I enjoyed it from start to finish. Loved all the character moments. Glad to see a bit more of the city too. :)

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 04:08 PM
They should bring in Daniel to try out this machine. Since he has ascneded & de ascended twice (or more) & he understands & knows how to translate the ancient launguage Daniel would have better luck. That way there can be a super powered show down between Daniel & Adria.

Or..... not. As this is SGA and not SG1. When I want to watch Daniel and Adria, I'll go watch SG1....

Starxgate
December 12th, 2006, 04:27 PM
Or..... not. As this is SGA and not SG1. When I want to watch Daniel and Adria, I'll go watch SG1....

You must have not fully read my post if you thinkt hat meant have Daniel & Adria on SGA (sighs) but hey you thinkw hatever hellps make you sleep at night better

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 04:47 PM
You must have not fully read my post if you thinkt hat meant have Daniel & Adria on SGA (sighs) but hey you thinkw hatever hellps make you sleep at night better

That's okay thanks, I don't need your absolution to sleep well at night.

I don't see what discussing Daniel coming to Atlantis to get "super powers" and then going off to fight Adria really has to do with discussing this episode though... (btw, did you miss the part at the end where Rodney discusses how incredibly dangerous the machine is and that it's pure luck only that he diddn't get reduced to a puddle of goo? I don't think Daniel would be much use to anyone as a puddle of goo....)

theonebluegecko
December 12th, 2006, 04:49 PM
They even threw in a special "No! We're not sleeping together! Not!"-line that's so "Oh, they're so doing it" XD.



What, what line?

Anyways, is it wrong that the whole time I watched the episode I kept thinking about what the McKay x Sheppard people would think about it.

Alipeeps
December 12th, 2006, 04:49 PM
they will forget about it because it's way too dangerous to ever be used again and because it was only luck that McKay didn't get turned to goop - they'd never risk using it on anyone again.

theonebluegecko
December 12th, 2006, 04:51 PM
The ancients didn't necessarily know how to just up and acend. They wouldn't have invented the machine in the first place. While the people in "Epiphany" weren't Ancients, they could very well have been direct decendents.

That is the impression that I also go. And think about it, if the Ancients lefts Pegasus like 10,000 years ago and time goes much faster in the bubble. That would be a lot of generations off from the original people there.

jenks
December 12th, 2006, 04:53 PM
So is there any discovery of a new power source? Rodney doesn't give us any new weapons schematics or make any ZPM's with all of his knowledge and abilities?

He designs a hyperdrive for the puddle jumpers, works out how to make the Daedalus' sheilds more effective, invents a new math, makes the cities use of the ZPM more efficient... Oh, and writes a book about Weir!

jenks
December 12th, 2006, 04:56 PM
Bottom line is: Most people agree they were just random people who wandered in there; not Ancients.

I think it's been made pretty clear by the writers that they were Ancients.

jenks
December 12th, 2006, 04:58 PM
they will forget about it because it's way too dangerous to ever be used again and because it was only luck that McKay didn't get turned to goop - they'd never risk using it on anyone again.

I'm sure everyone thought that about the 'headsuckers' in SG-1 ;)

SaberBlade
December 12th, 2006, 05:04 PM
I was thinking the same thing. They know there is an Ancient there, or at least someone who had been helped to Ascend. It would make perfect sense in the real world to go and ask her, or at least talk about it, but in the plothole ridden world of stargate, such an idea is an impossible thing.

Dromag67
December 12th, 2006, 05:18 PM
He designs a hyperdrive for the puddle jumpers, works out how to make the Daedalus' sheilds more effective, invents a new math, makes the cities use of the ZPM more efficient... Oh, and writes a book about Weir!

Mabey Caldwell will be slightly more appreciative of Rodney now. :D

Dromag67
December 12th, 2006, 05:22 PM
Anyone notice that awesome new night-time shot of Atlantis?\


Edited to add that I just noticed in the scene where Weir is talking to Rodney about ascension in the room with the math problem that next to his computer there is an partially empty lemon fruit cup.

Think his advanced powers fix his lemon allergies?

leelakin
December 12th, 2006, 05:48 PM
Anyone notice that awesome new night-time shot of Atlantis?

Yeah, it was awesome! I always get all sparkly-eyed when they show new shots of the city. I hope we'll see some more of those before season 3 is over. (=

Twinchy
December 12th, 2006, 05:54 PM
Rodney's recovered, and the first thing he does when he wakes up is to snark at his friends immediately, as always. I surely don't want a softspoken, docile McKay on the show, no, but wouldn't he be at least a bit confused or shaken after such a life-changing moment and not in full snark mode as soons as he opens his eyes?

Since I haven't watched the ep yet I can only make a suggestion but if Rodney really spoke his peace to about everyone of them beforehand, I could understand his snaking a them after recovering and holding them all at bay a bit. I guess the whole situation / experience was emotional enough for him for about the next two decades... :o

Just my two bits on that.

Mitchell82
December 12th, 2006, 06:05 PM
Great episode. Loved all the mushy moments with each character and I'm not ashamed to admit that I cried either.

Ol'Merlin
December 12th, 2006, 06:20 PM
Should've been brought up, but in all liklihood she would've said she can't get involved because the others would stop her.

Ol'Merlin
December 12th, 2006, 06:23 PM
I'm sure everyone thought that about the 'headsuckers' in SG-1 ;)

What headsuckers? ;)
At least he could still talk...though it was pretty intersting having Jack speaking an odd language and building things without speaking. Can't wait to see the Jumper hyperdrive. I'm surprised he didn't start making portable sheilds and ZPMs...

PG15
December 12th, 2006, 06:47 PM
Looks like Martin Gero has company on his pedestal of UberGodhood. ;)

This episode was all about McKay, and David Hewlett just hits it OUT. OF. THE. PARK. You know what? Screw the park, he hits it out of the Pegasus Galaxy, no the Virgo Supercluster.

Like the others have said, this episode was very emotional for Rodney, and really showed a side of him that we've never seen (and probably will never see again) before. I'll admit that some of the stuff was tad too mushy for me, but it was enjoyable nonetheless. I loved how he healed Ronan. On the flip side, the comedy near the beginning had me laughing out loud, especially the parts where nobody speaksm, but Rodney just goes on and on and on. Poor David. ;) The man has one of the best comedic timings I've ever seen.

And I LOVED the donut gag. :D

Also loved the small continuity nods towards Conversion and Epiphany; see, that last one wasn't filler after all (well, not any more). ;)

The Shep/McKay scenes were great, and I knew right away that them slashers *cough*Fallen*cough ;) will go nuts over it. For me, as a non-slasher, I saw a lot of friendship there, really touching stuff but perfectly in character for the 2.

Torri did a great job in this as well; as the "philosophical" side of things. A lot of her lines can be taken out of context, and it'll still sound cool. I love the Ascension parts of this franchise, and this episode, thanks to Torri, really went all out on that.

My hands were ice cold and sweating during the short Zelenka crisis. ;)

And of course, there is the scene near the end with the whole cast gathered around Rodney. Each person had their own way of dealing with it, and all of them that of remorse. Shep seems like he almost cried or something. Now, the slashers are going to go nuts again, but I'll refer back to Sateda; these people are literally the only family the man has, and now his younger, slightly annoying brother is going to die. No man can withstand that. This is like Meridian all over again, but not for real...which brings me to my only gripe:

The ending. Others have said it was a little trekkian, and at first I thought that was being overstated. Hell, I'm a trekkie at heart...but it was a little TOO easy. Oh well, this tiny little downside brings down the score a bit for an otherwise AWESOME episode.

9/10

Ol'Merlin
December 12th, 2006, 06:50 PM
Does rolling the eyes count as crying? :P

Great episode. I always love the stuff where they discover new technology and all. Can't wait to see the PJ hyperdrives. Rather disappointed that Rodney didn't do anything regarding the ZPM shortage, the lack of the ever-absent and his most-favourite personal shield devices...or the lack of any sort of weapon upgrades for Atlantis.

Twinchy
December 12th, 2006, 07:03 PM
Right now I'm getting more and more bugged that I won't get to watch this one for about the next x-illion millenia... *sobbing*
But to be honest, I'm practically counting the seconds nonetheless for all the Season 3 eps after 'Common Ground' (up to which I already watched, thanks to my twin sister's birthday present! :) ).

PG15
December 12th, 2006, 07:05 PM
One thing I forgot to mention, there were 2 conversations that were almost verbatim convos here on Gateworld; of course, I'm talking about the Shep vs. Weir talk on the Ancient's arrogence, and another one that I've forgot.

TPTB really does read stuff on here...and here I thought they were just coming here to have a laugh. ;)

Dromag67
December 12th, 2006, 07:05 PM
Does rolling the eyes count as crying? :P


Yeah I don't think I saw any tears.

the old briar pipe
December 12th, 2006, 07:31 PM
OMG, Starxgate, I think I love you! These pics are awesome!

lamona
December 12th, 2006, 07:35 PM
I am so confused, i thought that The Tao of Rodney was Ep 315 and not 314.. and that Sunday was in fact ep 314....

Render
December 12th, 2006, 07:55 PM
Guys in all honesty i think this episode just reaffirmed my love of SGA, its back on track (not that it ever was very far off)

I would have to put this as on of the greatest SG episodes of all time

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 12th, 2006, 08:01 PM
Just finished watching. Best episode of the season, David Hewlett was awesome in the episode. The ep was funny, especially the stuff that came out of Rodney (which was most of it). I hope "Sunday" airs next week Monday, I can't wait to see it.

Episodes downloaded from iTunes
-Sateda
-Progeny

Episodes planning on downloading from iTunes when SGA begins airing again here in the States
-The Return Part 2
-Tao of Rodney

the old briar pipe
December 12th, 2006, 08:06 PM
I really liked this episode :) I've been wanting to see more of this type of McKay since Hide & Seek. MCWEEEEEEEEEEEEEIR!!!!! :D

Really? I was shipping Rodney/pudding cups myself. ;)

But seriously. He did not write 500 pages in a couple of days. He's been working on that puppy for a while.


Are there already translations somewhere for the sentences Radek says in Czech?

I want these, too! I'm waiting for the next "I can't work with these actors."


Although I do find it odd that he'd call Chaya "condescending and arrogant"...

Uh. I think John was referring to Teer's people.... He kinda was annoyed at how they pretty much worshipped ascension. And possibly he's mad at the Ancients for what they did to Chaya, rather than at Chaya herself.

Not that I'm signing up for the Chaya defense league. Just wanted to be clear on John's attitude.


Rodney having the entire conversation all by himself, responding to everyone else's points before they make them! :D

omg so funny! I was glad they used that, as it put me in mind of some interviews where DH has bemoaned his enormous dialogue load. "Need to lengthen the ep by a couple of minutes? Just give McKay a monologue," or some such. Nice to see the writers poking fun at themselves.


I love Sheppard's summation of his abilities in this episode as, "I fought a scary monster; that's what I do best."

And I love Elizabeth's response: "For Rodney, I think this is a pretty scary monster."

Poor Rodney! Forced to confront his feelings with the help of a guy who can't even say words like "love" and "family".

Arlessiar
December 12th, 2006, 09:09 PM
Anyone notice that awesome new night-time shot of Atlantis?\ Yeah, that was fantastic!

Edited to add that I just noticed in the scene where Weir is talking to Rodney about ascension in the room with the math problem that next to his computer there is an partially empty lemon fruit cup.
Think his advanced powers fix his lemon allergies? Hehe, that would be a good idea! But someone who can speak japanese said that the lid of that cup says something about mangos, not lemons. :S

Bye, A.

HyperCaz
December 12th, 2006, 10:39 PM
Really? I was shipping Rodney/pudding cups myself. ;)

But seriously. He did not write 500 pages in a couple of days. He's been working on that puppy for a while.

You're right there! :D His powers didn't include super typing because I noticed he was typing humanly possible with those two laptops. *glee* Ship. *shweir shippers shake head at Caz, Caz just grins*

I liked seeing more of Zelenka - because he's just so...Zelenka...and he should never be missed... :) He really deserved that apology from Rodney. Altho if I was Radek I'd still be freaked out by Rodney touching my chest lol.

jerkface
December 12th, 2006, 10:40 PM
Wow, this feels a little rollercoaster-ish—after disliking last week's so much, I really liked this one.

The team interaction was great, and it was nice to see people somewhat outside their normal roles on the show. Sheppard helping with meditation, Teyla having (more of) a backstory, Ronon affectionate, and Weir teasing (someone other than Sheppard).

The city itself looked great in this one too. It felt bigger, and we seemed to be seeing it from more than the usual angles.

I also liked how a lot of the reactions of the team to Rodney's goodbye efforts weren't shown. We didn't see all of how Weir and Ronon reacted to what he did for them, but their reactions showed in their later interactions with him. I think making us imagine the reactions made the episode even more poignant.

Conversely, seeing Teyla smile in happy surprise was great too; she didn't have to be stoic-wise-alien-woman here. And mention of Halling! (I'm hoping he and Jinto appear in some future episode.)

All the Zelenka moments were nice too. Nykl seems like a really good actor. Zelenka looked so pathetic, getting hit by the electricity bolt thing, and then lying in the infirmary; he looked so small.

The final McKay-Weir scene was great too. I'm not really a shipper of any kind, but it was nice to see the kind of teasing/affection they usually show between Sheppard and McKay going on between other characters. It felt like one of M and W's good season 1 moments.

Putting on my pessimist pants for a second though, I did think some of Sheppard's lines/actions were written as too harsh. He was reading a magazine while a dying McKay tried to work on ascending? I think Flanigan did a good job of softening them (especially looking all teared up when Rodney was close to death) but it felt like the writers were too worried about keeping the character undemonstrative.

And what was with the lack of Beckett in all this? It feels like they've been writing him as more weary/stalwart lately, and it felt particularly awkward here.

I did have one moment of confusion as well (though this may just be me). In the last scene Rodney says something about existence being pointless without the "individuality of consciousness." :confused: I'm not sure what he was supposed to mean there. That ascending, he would lose that? Do ascended beings have more of a group consciousness? Or does the phrase refer to something else here?

But those nitpickings aside, I really did like it. :zelenka25:

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 10:48 PM
Did anyone else notice that Radek had impeccable grammar in this episode? Maybe I've missed it before, but this is the first episode in which I've heard him use perfect grammar, even on places where he'd always use weird grammar before!

Avenger
December 12th, 2006, 10:49 PM
I am so confused, i thought that The Tao of Rodney was Ep 315 and not 314.. and that Sunday was in fact ep 314....

It was originally going to be 15, but the pushed what was going to be 14 back.

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 10:52 PM
Why would Ronon use pounds to measure weight?

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 10:53 PM
The machine might be risky, but it's better to have one out of four volunteers not gooping than had no geniuses at all. After all, if the Wraith decide to attack, we might all be dead, anyway (we could evacuate, but then they'd get Earth's address).

Michelle05
December 12th, 2006, 10:56 PM
Well, that was freaking brilliant from beginning to end. I was teary eyed most of the way through it, both because of how beautiful and satisfying the story was, and for the touching last scene of Rodney in the infirmary with all his friends. "We love you, Rodney." Waaaahhh!! The friendship aspects that were highlighted were just incredible, every one of them. And those looking for any pairing could find something to appreciate. (It's canon -- Rodney has been in John's bed!!)

Kudos to Damian for writing this one (he's not full time on the staff this year, I don't believe). The arc Rodney went through was so right for him, and so touching. David of course gave a brilliant performance, and so much dialog for the poor guy to memorize!! There was wonderful acting from everyone else as well. Was that a tear in John's eye? OMG! Weir was really sweet; I loved seeing that side of her. Carson was just lovely and it's so sad to know why this ep was shown this week, out of production order, and that Paul had to film it after filming his own demise in "Sunday". Sniff.

This might be my new fav of all time.

The only question I have is how Elizabeth knows so much about ascending from the spiritual side. Has that ever been established before? I think the one thing missing was any mention of Daniel and his experiences. This would have been a perfect opportunity for Daniel to come over and help out, and he should have at least been mentioned.

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 10:57 PM
What, what line?

Anyways, is it wrong that the whole time I watched the episode I kept thinking about what the McKay x Sheppard people would think about it.
Elizabeth: Know that we love you.
Rodney: You love me? Really? All of you?
John: The way a friend... feels about another friend.

(John was the only one to specify that. An obvious "Make nice for the others who don't know we're doing it"-maneuvre.)

FallenAngelII
December 12th, 2006, 11:01 PM
From the GW Transcription of Epiphany:




I dunno, I kinda feel like it could go either way in terms of whether or not they were Ancients. The whole deal with them not ascending for so long was that Mr. Inviso-beast was the last burden that they had to bare before Ascension (Beast of Burden, get it?).
You really think Inviso-Beast was around for 2,500,000 years with Ancients not being able to figure out he was just a creation of their own stupidity/fears?

Wow, this diminishes the Ancients even more. Also, "direct descendants"? Since when does "generations ago" equal 2,5 million years unless the Ancients live for 100,000's of years at a time?


They were descendents of the Ancients who went there to ascend - I'm pretty sure Teer mentions that to Sheppard, telling him they are the last of the descendants of those who travelled to that place to ascend. Not all Ancients automatically gained the ability to ascend at the same time - it is a personal event, a journey that each of them has to make alone.


I think it's been made pretty clear by the writers that they were Ancients.
O Rly?

EXTRA! EXTRA!

I've found the quote which wins the thread (from Gateworld's transcript of "Epiphany"):
TEER: Well, they came generations ago. I'm from a race of people who revered those who came before us, those who created this place.

IT'S CONCLUSIVE! THEY WERE NOT ANCIENTS AND JOHN KNEW THEY WEREN'T!

Stupid writers.

JohnSheppard28
December 12th, 2006, 11:03 PM
I really loved this episode, just wanted to say that. :D

Michelle05
December 12th, 2006, 11:18 PM
One more thing -- didn't the snacks around Rodney's laptops look like lemon yogurts or something??? Did he lose his allergies during the transformation?

xfkirsten
December 12th, 2006, 11:47 PM
The only question I have is how Elizabeth knows so much about ascending from the spiritual side. Has that ever been established before? I think the one thing missing was any mention of Daniel and his experiences. This would have been a perfect opportunity for Daniel to come over and help out, and he should have at least been mentioned.

I really wondered about this, as well. From a personality and character standpoint, I can really see her taking an interest in the cultural and spiritual aspects of the Ancients, but her knowledge of ascension seemed oddly thorough, given that there seems to be so little known about the Ancient society. It would have at least been nice to see how she came by that knowledge at some point - even as simple as someone walking into her office and finding her reading about it.

Willow'sCat
December 12th, 2006, 11:57 PM
One more thing -- didn't the snacks around Rodney's laptops look like lemon yogurts or something??? Did he lose his allergies during the transformation?They were Mangos. ;)

lostinspace
December 13th, 2006, 12:06 AM
I really wondered about this, as well. From a personality and character standpoint, I can really see her taking an interest in the cultural and spiritual aspects of the Ancients, but her knowledge of ascension seemed oddly thorough, given that there seems to be so little known about the Ancient society. It would have at least been nice to see how she came by that knowledge at some point - even as simple as someone walking into her office and finding her reading about it.
My guess was that she'd done a fair bit of research and talking with Daniel during her stint as head of SGC and the Atlantis expedition.... It's also quite common for int'l development/ diplomats to be interested in/know more about different spiritual/cultural beliefs (hence, all those "token" souveniers in her office and also the "hippy" persona that Torri herself has)? Of course, it could easily just be the writers needing to give Torri more substantial scenes (unfortunately, in this case at the expense of Rachel - who would have been more suited for the meditation bit).

ziga1980
December 13th, 2006, 12:08 AM
i like his grammar. hope he'll still use it like he used to.

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 12:48 AM
The machine might be risky, but it's better to have one out of four volunteers not gooping than had no geniuses at all. After all, if the Wraith decide to attack, we might all be dead, anyway (we could evacuate, but then they'd get Earth's address).

Really? a 25 % chance of survival. You think Weir's ever gonna authorise that? Would you volunteer?

stargate maniack
December 13th, 2006, 01:20 AM
i'd volunteer :D:P

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 01:39 AM
i'd volunteer :D:P

Ok. I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 4 - what is it? :D

sgeureka
December 13th, 2006, 01:48 AM
I totally didn't catch it before, but there's this great little moment in the cafeteria, right after Rodney overhears everyone talking about him, when he telekinetically moves his tablet to his hand without noticing.

HAH!I watched that scene twice or three times and always wondered why it looked so strange. It never crossed my mind that McKay was using his telekinetic powers.


Are there already translations somewhere for the sentences Radek says in Czech?Keep an eye on the Dr. Zelenka's Complete Translations and thunk thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=7643). One of the czechs there will probably translate all of Zelenka's sentences within the next few days.

macktheknife
December 13th, 2006, 01:55 AM
Maybe she's just used to wearing that watch and puts it on every morning automatically. :)

Or the simpler solution is that so no matter where they go, they have a standard frame of reference for what time it is.

Popeston
December 13th, 2006, 02:51 AM
Same reason he speaks perfect english I'd imagine.

ccdsah
December 13th, 2006, 03:02 AM
I didn't like how Rodney was eating alone in the commissary while the other 3 were at another table gossiping about him !!! I thought they were a team by now and would be at his side in this time of need (luckily by the end of the episode they seemed to act more like friends)

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 03:07 AM
I watched that scene twice or three times and always wondered why it looked so strange. It never crossed my mind that McKay was using his telekinetic powers.


I noticed that moment straight away and loved it.. just a little sly hint at what is starting to happen.. :D


I didn't like how Rodney was eating alone in the commissary while the other 3 were at another table gossiping about him !!! I thought they were a team by now and would be at his side in this time of need (luckily by the end of the episode they seemed to act more like friends)

I did wonder about that myself but honestly... I think it was just something of a clunky plot device to showcase McKay's new ability. I can't think of any reason why they would be sat separately - whether he arrived first on his own (which is odd cos Sheppard was with him when he said he was going for something to eat) or they arrived first and he later (again odd for the same reason as above), why would whoever arrived second choose to sit at a different table instead of joining their friend/team mate?

I don't think it was intentionally trying to say anything about the team's relationship... just, as I say, a rather unwieldy attempt to further the plot...

Easter Lily
December 13th, 2006, 03:21 AM
This was a really lovely episode with wonderful cast interaction. It's the sort of thing that good ensemble pieces are made of.

I don't mind admitting that the tears flowed freely.

MechaThor
December 13th, 2006, 03:31 AM
It was a good episode with some nice moments. I liked Ronans reaction at the end "Good to see your fine buddy GGGGGGRRRRRR".

Do you guys think iot was an ancient that gave him the idea of how to fix his problem when he was floating in that balck space?

Also what happened with the Pubble Jumper hpyerspace thing? I mean he put it on disc for every1 el;se to understand and i gess is possible as a 302 has a small hyperspace generator?

prion
December 13th, 2006, 04:14 AM
Transcript and image gallery for 'Tao Of Rodney' has been posted.

http://www.scifiquest.com/stargateatlantis

Feel free to forward this update

Luz
December 13th, 2006, 04:15 AM
Elizabeth: Know that we love you.
Rodney: You love me? Really? All of you?
John: The way a friend... feels about another friend.

(John was the only one to specify that. An obvious "Make nice for the others who don't know we're doing it"-maneuvre.)

Really?, I thought John looked grossed out. And sorry, to me he's doing it in closets with Elizabeth. :P

Astraldust
December 13th, 2006, 04:16 AM
A good episode but it won't go down as one of my favourites. Why? Because it had a bit too much Rodney babble in it for my liking. (I can still hear his voice hours after viewing the episode). Don't get me wrong it had some really good moments but I just wish TPTB would tone down their love affair with McKay. :(

Good points Nice team interaction and friendship. Concern for Radek after he was zapped by the power outage. John trying to get Rodney to mediate. Stealing the donut from Carson.

Bad pointsI don't think Sheppard would try to use that machine to turn himself into a super hero, not after what happened to Rodney. Crazy! :(

Luz
December 13th, 2006, 04:50 AM
Do you have to open a thread *everytime* you ask a question?, you could have asked this on the episode thread.

prion
December 13th, 2006, 05:06 AM
I don't think Shep meant Teer... He said 'a bunch of pansy wannabes' which doesn't neccessarily have to be everybody in town.
Teer was the only one brave enough to stand up for him when the "big scary monster" came to town, so I don't think he thinks that Teer is a pansy wannabe.
Everybody else - yes, but Teer - no...

And Hedda - she was just a kid :)

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:07 AM
Do you have to open a thread *everytime* you ask a question?, you could have asked this on the episode thread.
These are all separate issues that are not to be clogged together in the episode thread where we mostly discuss what we thought of the episode.

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:08 AM
Really?, I thought John looked grossed out. And sorry, to me he's doing in closets with Elizabeth. :P
He didn't look grossed out at all. Awkward, yes. John's close to Elizabeth? Since when? We get the random glimpses of closeness every, oh, 5 episodes, but there's tons of McShep interaction every single episode.

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:10 AM
Really? a 25 % chance of survival. You think Weir's ever gonna authorise that? Would you volunteer?
John would. Actually, he did.

Luz
December 13th, 2006, 05:12 AM
He didn't look grossed out at all. Awkward, yes. John's close to Elizabeth? Since when? We get the random glimpses of closeness every, oh, 5 episodes, but there's tons of McShep interaction every single episode.

I see plenty of closeness, for you it might seem random, I see it as a constant, I'm not about to point them all to you (but TRW, Echoes, and Tao come to mind), I know some people don't see it as romantic, but why trying to deny a relationship (they are close friends) just because you have another OTP?. Yeah, Sheppard and McKay are close, I'm not denying that, but I also think Sheppard and Elizabeth are close, and that there is UST between them.

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 05:12 AM
These are all separate issues that are not to be clogged together in the episode thread where we mostly discuss what we thought of the episode.

Your question wasn't a thought about the episiode? The episode thread exists precisely for people to discuss what they think of the episode and any questions they have about it, thoughts they have on it, issues raised in it.

If you feel you absolutely have to express your thoughts on an episode separately from the ep thread, then why not create one thread with the title "My thoughts and questions on Tao of Rodney" instead of spamming the forum with - at the latest count - five separate threads for each separate thought you have had about Tao of Rodney?

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:14 AM
I see plenty of closeness, for you it might seem random, I see it as a constant, I'm not about to point them all to you. Yeah, Sheppard and McKay are close, I'm not denying that, but I also think Sheppard and Elizabeth are close, and that there is UST between them.
There hasn't been any UST since season 2. And believe me, if Rodney were a woman, you'd be saying there's tons of UST between him and John.

You were saying John was closests to Elizabeth just a post ago.

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 05:15 AM
Hey. Everybody will see whatever ship they prefer. It's all open to interpretation; that's kinda the point. Stating your shippy interpretation of a scene as fact, however....

Personally, I am pretty much ship-free and happily interpret such scenes as being friendship - and I see close friendship between both Sheppard and McKay and Sheppard and Weir. The one does not exclude the other.

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:16 AM
Your question wasn't a thought about the episiode? The episode thread exists precisely for people to discuss what they think of the episode and any questions they have about it, thoughts they have on it, issues raised in it.

If you feel you absolutely have to express your thoughts on an episode separately from the ep thread, then why not create one thread with the title "My thoughts and questions on Tao of Rodney" instead of spamming the forum with - at the latest count - five separate threads for each separate thought you have had about Tao of Rodney?
Because each issue is separate and might generate a discussion of their own. Of course, this thread wasn't vital and neither was the one about the Pansy wannabes.

But the one about the machine, Radek's grammar and why they didn't just ask Chaya for help ones are issues that invites a lot of discussion and philosophy. They'll break into discussions of how important the machines is, how funny Radek's old grammar used to be and how stupid the Ascended rulebook is or whatever.

Besides, you're only complaining because all of the threads were started by one single person. It'd be nothing strange to you had they been started by different people.

bluealien
December 13th, 2006, 05:18 AM
A good episode but it won't go down as one of my favourites. Why? Because it had a bit too much Rodney babble in it for my liking. (I can still hear his voice hours after viewing the episode). Don't get me wrong it had some really good moments but I just wish TPTB would tone down their love affair with McKay. :(


My exact feelings. Enjoyable ep but too much Rodney babble. He must get 10 lines of dialogue to everyone else's one. I also predicted the exact moment he would grab his head and fall to the floor.


Good points Nice team interaction and friendship. Concern for Radek after he was zapped by the power outage. John trying to get Rodney to mediate. Stealing the donut from Carson.


The team interaction moments were great and the meditation scene was the hightlight of the ep for me. Excellent scene. There were some lovely moments between Elizabeth and Rodney, she seemed softer and her concern for Rodney was really nice. She looked quite distraught when she told him "we all love you". Rodney seemed pretty happy with that info. TPTB should give more Rodney/Weir scenes as it brings the best out in both of them.


Bad pointsI don't think Sheppard would try to use that machine to turn himself into a super hero, not after what happened to Rodney. Crazy! :(


I agree, I could understand him getting all excited in his innitial conversation with Weir about using the device - he was bouncing around like a big kid asking permission from his teacher - but after seeing how it nearly killed Rodney it did seem a bit crazy that he would still want to use the device.


A decent ep but hopefully the writers will share out the screentime between the other cast members a bit more and try and use their writing skills on someone else besides Rodney.

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:18 AM
Alipeeps, I see no problem admitting John has lots of friends (as does Rodney). People have friends, it's what we do. However:


Really?, I thought John looked grossed out. And sorry, to me he's doing in closets with Elizabeth. :P

I was merely pointing out that, no, I do not think John's closests relationship on Atlantis is Elizabeth (unless they're secretly sleeping with each other). Among his friends on Atlantis, it's Rodney who's closests to him.

Luz
December 13th, 2006, 05:18 AM
There hasn't been any UST since season 2. And believe me, if Rodney were a woman, you'd be saying there's tons of UST between him and John.

You were saying John was closests to Elizabeth just a post ago.

You misread me, I said that to me John and Elizabeth were doing it on closets, it was a tongue in cheek comment.
I don't believe in saying that a character is closest and has a much more speshul relationship to someone. Everyone relates to everyone in a different manner, so we cannot expect one person to treat everyone equally.
And I do believe Sheppard and McKay have loads of UST, I just don't expect anything overt to ever happen on the show, and I love the S/W pairing too.

Read your other post, and yeah, definitely a misunderstanding, I don't think I can tell who he's closest to him, if Elizabeth or Rodney because those are two completely different relationships, and to me it's not about just two people, Sheppard, Weir, and McKay are like the golden trio of Atlantis (IMO).

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 05:21 AM
Because each issue is separate and might generate a discussion of their own. Of course, this thread wasn't vital and neither was the one about the Pansy wannabes.

But the one about the machine, Radek's grammar and why they didn't just ask Chaya for help ones are issues that invites a lot of discussion and philosophy. They'll break into discussions of how important the machines is, how funny Radek's old grammar used to be and how stupid the Ascended rulebook is or whatever.

Besides, you're only complaining because all of the threads were started by one single person. It'd be nothing strange to you had they been started by different people.

The same could be said of many of the points raised in the discussion thread - but you don't see those posters spamming the forum by creating a brand new post for every single thought/question they have about the episode...

And yeah, it would bug me just as much if the threads were started by separate people - I can and do report ill-thought out new threads by various posters that are all discussing the same issue/ep. However, most of those threads are made by newish members who perhaps aren't fully familiar with the forums and haven't looked around to see if there are relevant posts before jumping in the start a new thread. You've been around long enough to know how the forum works..

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 05:25 AM
I was merely pointing out that, no, I do not think John's closests relationship on Atlantis is Elizabeth (unless they're secretly sleeping with each other). Among his friends on Atlantis, it's Rodney who's closests to him.


You misread me, I said that to me John and Elizabeth were doing it on closets, it was a tongue in cheek comment.
I don't believe in saying that a character is closest and has a much more speshul relationship to someone. Everyone relates to everyone in a different manner, so we cannot expect one person to treat everyone equally.
And I do believe Sheppard and McKay have loads of UST, I just don't expect anything overt to ever happen on the show, and I love the S/W pairing too.

I think we had a case of mininterpretation there - as Luz has clarified, she was not saying that John's closest relationship is with Elizabeth, she was responding to your assertation that John and Rodney are "doing it" by stating that, in her opinion, John and Elizabeth are "doing it in closets".

I guess the typo caused some confusion there Luz! ;) :p

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:25 AM
I rarely ever post in the actual episode discussion threads. Because over 50% of all posts in there will be random praising/knocking on the episode or a collective of what they thought of the episode. It's a giant spamfest of "I loved it!" and "I hated it!".

No useful discussion is ever brought up in those threads. In fact, if you throw in an issue, it's likely to get lost in the spam.

And since I came here back in December/January, people have created new threads every time an episode airs.

While I admit that this thread isn't that important and we could've lived without it, I won't admit to it going against any written or unwritten rules. We discuss the stupidest things such as "Who would win in X vs Y?". At least this one has some merit to it.

Why would Ronon use pounds? Why would the Altantis expedition teach him pounds when the most widely used systems on Earth are the metric and kilogram systems?

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:26 AM
John and Elizabeth wouldn't have to be doing it secretly. Sure, discreetly, maybe, but not secretly. She's a civilian (and a woman) and he's the military commander. They have no obligation to not sleep with each other.

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 05:29 AM
John would. Actually, he did.

No, he didn't. McKay asked if Sheppard was still bugging Weir about using the machine. It was pretty obvious (to me, at least) that the conversation was supposed to be a light-hearted end to the ep and not a clear indication that Sheppard was in any way serious about wanting to use the machine. I can see him just thinking it would be cool to have super-powers and to waste a bit of brain power trying to think of some way that they could use the machine safely...

My interpretation, obviously... :D But there was never any definitive statement that Sheppard was actually prepared to risk dying and use the machine.

Anyway - you didn't answer my question. Seriously, using the odds you've conjectured, a 3 in 4 chance of dying but a 1 in 4 chance of gaining cool superpowers (though you'd also have to figure out how to ascend or die anyway - or have the machine reset your DNA thereby kinda making the whole thing pointless) - would you do it?

Luz
December 13th, 2006, 05:29 AM
I think we had a case of mininterpretation there - as Luz has clarified, she was not saying that John's closest relationship is with Elizabeth, she was responding to your assertation that John and Rodney are "doing it" by stating that, in her opinion, John and Elizabeth are "doing it in closets".

I guess the typo caused some confusion there Luz! ;) :p

What typo?, I wrote "he's doing it in closets", there, to me it looks okay, and my spell checker doesn't detect anything either. It was supposed to be a joke. *lol*

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 05:32 AM
Why would Ronon use pounds? Why would the Altantis expedition teach him pounds when the most widely used systems on Earth are the metric and kilogram systems?

Because the core team members with whom Ronon mostly interacts are Americans and use the imperial system for weights more routinely than the metric? Just cos Europe etc are happily fully metric, us old anarchronistic Brits and Yanks find it kinda hard to let go of our cherised antiquated measuring systems! ;) :D

Iguana775
December 13th, 2006, 05:34 AM
I was thinking the same thing. why not just keep going back? they should have had it explode or something after McKay was fixed so that there was never the opportunity and to close the book on that. Leaving it working just leaves too much temptation to use, I'd think. Hell, who's to say that some random person wont go down there and try it out?

of course, a smart thing would be to have an Asgard team look at it and maybe find a way to use it to help their cloning problem. :) there should be a team of little grey men there anyways for research, IMO. :)

Iguana775
December 13th, 2006, 05:36 AM
No, he didn't. McKay asked if Sheppard was still bugging Weir about using the machine. It was pretty obvious (to me, at least) that the conversation was supposed to be a light-hearted end to the ep and not a clear indication that Sheppard was in any way serious about wanting to use the machine. I can see him just thinking it would be cool to have super-powers and to waste a bit of brain power trying to think of some way that they could use the machine safely...

My interpretation, obviously... :D But there was never any definitive statement that Sheppard was actually prepared to risk dying and use the machine.

Anyway - you didn't answer my question. Seriously, using the odds you've conjectured, a 3 in 4 chance of dying but a 1 in 4 chance of gaining cool superpowers (though you'd also have to figure out how to ascend or die anyway - or have the machine reset your DNA thereby kinda making the whole thing pointless) - would you do it?

If I didnt have a family, I would seriously consider it. I'm sure they could find a ton of volunteers.

Hey, you think that machine would work on a cat or dog? LOL. imagine having a talking cat or dog in SGA. :cool:

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 05:37 AM
What typo?, I wrote "he's doing it in closets", there, to me it looks okay, and my spell checker doesn't detect anything either. It was supposed to be a joke. *lol*

Sorry, not so much a typo as a minor grammatical blooper - you put "doing in closets with Elizabeth" when it should have read "doing it in closets". It's a minor thing and your meaning was clear to me but it did perhaps make the sentence a little confusing.... :D

I liked the joke... :D

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:38 AM
No, he didn't. McKay asked if Sheppard was still bugging Weir about using the machine. It was pretty obvious (to me, at least) that the conversation was supposed to be a light-hearted end to the ep and not a clear indication that Sheppard was in any way serious about wanting to use the machine. I can see him just thinking it would be cool to have super-powers and to waste a bit of brain power trying to think of some way that they could use the machine safely...

My interpretation, obviously... :D But there was never any definitive statement that Sheppard was actually prepared to risk dying and use the machine.

Anyway - you didn't answer my question. Seriously, using the odds you've conjectured, a 3 in 4 chance of dying but a 1 in 4 chance of gaining cool superpowers (though you'd also have to figure out how to ascend or die anyway - or have the machine reset your DNA thereby kinda making the whole thing pointless) - would you do it?
John: Assuming it's safe. Well, to be honest, even if it's not...

It's been established that should the Wraith ever attack, they won't be able to destroy the database well enough to prevent the Wraith from getting to Earth's location. However, they could use that virus to wipe the database out, but who knows what the Wraith can do?

Also, the Asurans probed our minds and know the address to Earth. Should they ever feel vindictive enough, they could just launch an attack on us.

If either the Wraith or the Asurans were to attack and we were losing, do you think we'd hesitate to send sacrificial lambs to the machine in the hopes of them figured out a way to win?

Let's see:
75% chance the sacrificial lamb dies vs. 100% they all die

What to choose?

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:39 AM
"And sorry, to me he's doing in closets with Elizabeth"

The second time you said "doing it on". Those were both typos (well, the first one just had bad grammar).

Iguana775
December 13th, 2006, 05:40 AM
Call me crazy but I like the Radek character moreso than the Carson character. :) There should be more Radek episodes!

Though, Carson is still cool. :)

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 05:41 AM
Because the core team members with whom Ronon mostly interacts are Americans and use the imperial system for weights more routinely than the metric? Just cos Europe etc are happily fully metric, us old anarchronistic Brits and Yanks find it kinda hard to let go of our cherised antiquated measuring systems! ;) :D
Google taught me this:
"Canada uses the metric system of weights and measures"

Teyla is an Athosian. Ronon is a Satedan. Out of Ronon's "core team members", only John uses the pound/feet system.

Luz
December 13th, 2006, 05:42 AM
Corrected it to avoid future misunderstandings.

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 05:48 AM
I was thinking the same thing. why not just keep going back? they should have had it explode or something after McKay was fixed so that there was never the opportunity and to close the book on that. Leaving it working just leaves too much temptation to use, I'd think. Hell, who's to say that some random person wont go down there and try it out?

of course, a smart thing would be to have an Asgard team look at it and maybe find a way to use it to help their cloning problem. :) there should be a team of little grey men there anyways for research, IMO. :)

That's an interesting point actually. Given John's self-sacrificing tendencies evidence in The Siege etc, who's to say that in the right (read "desperate") circumstances, he might not just choose to try it? The only thing is, I'm not sure he would with the knowledge that it might just kill him outright and not achieve anything to help others/save the city...



Hey, you think that machine would work on a cat or dog? LOL. imagine having a talking cat or dog in SGA. :cool:

*Heh* Now that would be cool


John: Assuming it's safe. Well, to be honest, even if it's not...

That conversation was a) theoretical, b) before they established how dangerous the machine was and that it was a death sentence for McKay and c) before they knew that there was a random chance that the machine would just kill someone outright instead of giving them super powers.



It's been established that should the Wraith ever attack, they won't be able to destroy the database well enough to prevent the Wraith from getting to Earth's location. However, they could use that virus to wipe the database out, but who knows what the Wraith can do?

Also, the Asurans probed our minds and know the address to Earth. Should they ever feel vindictive enough, they could just launch an attack on us.

If either the Wraith or the Asurans were to attack and we were losing, do you think we'd hesitate to send sacrificial lambs to the machine in the hopes of them figured out a way to win?

Let's see:
75% chance the sacrificial lamb dies vs. 100% they all die

What to choose?

How d'you know they know the address for Earth? From what we've seen, when the Asurans mindprobe, they don't simply suck everything you know from your mind - they look for specific information that they want. They wanted the location of Atlantis in Progeny and they found it... but we don't know they even looked for the address of Earth.

I still don't think its in character for Elizabeth to authorise people to use the machine, even in desperate circumstances, when there's a good chance it would simply needlessly kill people. This is the woman who, even when they were on the brink of destruction, when they knew the self-destruct would not sufficiently destroy the city, refused to even consider taking a ZPM from a commuinity of children in order to buy themselves a few more days of survival.

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 05:52 AM
Google taught me this:
"Canada uses the metric system of weights and measures"

Teyla is an Athosian. Ronon is a Satedan. Out of Ronon's "core team members", only John uses the pound/feet system.

John and Elizabeth and Carson (I meant core team more in the sense of core cast, I guess) and out of all of them Ronon spends more time probably with either Teyla (who will presumably have learnt Earth measurements etc from people with whom she spends a lot of time.. like John and Elizabeth) or John.

P.S. Never said Canadians didn't use metric - only that US and UK tend not to.

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 05:54 AM
"And sorry, to me he's doing in closets with Elizabeth"

The second time you said "doing it on". Those were both typos (well, the first one just had bad grammar).

Give the gal a break... you're not the only one communicating in a foreign language here.... ;)

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 06:01 AM
That's an interesting point actually. Given John's self-sacrificing tendencies evidence in The Siege etc, who's to say that in the right (read "desperate") circumstances, he might not just choose to try it? The only thing is, I'm not sure he would with the knowledge that it might just kill him outright and not achieve anything to help others/save the city...



*Heh* Now that would be cool



That conversation was a) theoretical, b) before they established how dangerous the machine was and that it was a death sentence for McKay and c) before they knew that there was a random chance that the machine would just kill someone outright instead of giving them super powers.



How d'you know they know the address for Earth? From what we've seen, when the Asurans mindprobe, they don't simply suck everything you know from your mind - they look for specific information that they want. They wanted the location of Atlantis in Progeny and they found it... but we don't know they even looked for the address of Earth.

I still don't think its in character for Elizabeth to authorise people to use the machine, even in desperate circumstances, when there's a good chance it would simply needlessly kill people. This is the woman who, even when they were on the brink of destruction, when they knew the self-destruct would not sufficiently destroy the city, refused to even consider taking a ZPM from a commuinity of children in order to buy themselves a few more days of survival.
Taking the ZPM from the children would be useless. They didn't know that the Daedalus was coming.

The machine is not a death sentence. Rodney figured out how to reverse the process using his old DNA. So anyone who uses the machine and doesn't turn into goop (which was just randomly thrown in there to negate the greatness of the machine so that they wouldn't constantly revisit it) won't have to either die or Ascend as long as they have a blood sample (or any other genetic material) for reference.

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 06:03 AM
John and Elizabeth and Carson (I meant core team more in the sense of core cast, I guess) and out of all of them Ronon spends more time probably with either Teyla (who will presumably have learnt Earth measurements etc from people with whom she spends a lot of time.. like John and Elizabeth) or John.

P.S. Never said Canadians didn't use metric - only that US and UK tend not to.
Besides, John is military. The U.S. military, apparentely, uses the metric system. Don't ask me why, I was told this once when discussing why the heck Jack was using the metric system in "Redemption".

Sicktem
December 13th, 2006, 06:24 AM
Flanigan said in an interview that the episode (Epiphany) was a bit of a disappointment for him because they had planned it to be so much better, but it fell short for whatever reason. That could mean that they intended to go into the backstory about how they were Ancients and while I always assumed they were Humans I don't think this goes against anything said in that episode.

The woman said her people found the place a few hundred years ago. Now it's unknown if that meant a few hundred years real time or bubble time but it's very possible that there were Ancients who were cut off from Atlantis for whatever reason and so they missed them leaving back for Earth. By the time they managed to get to someplace where a stargate was several generations had passed and the gate address to Atlantis wasn't passed down. However, through the group's explorations they came upon the place which Ancients did in fact need 10,000 years ago. Of course this is all speculation, but the point is that it's not impossible.


EXTRA! EXTRA!

I've found the quote which wins the thread (from Gateworld's transcript of "Epiphany"):
TEER: Well, they came generations ago. I'm from a race of people who revered those who came before us, those who created this place.

IT'S CONCLUSIVE! THEY WERE NOT ANCIENTS AND JOHN KNEW THEY WEREN'T!

Stupid writers.

Excuse me, but that quote doesn't add any evidence to your theory. He specifically says that they are from a race of people who revered "those who came before them." That line could mean anything, but we as Humans use it to refer to our Human ancestors, not a different species. So, there's no reason they couldn't have been talking about their own ancestors as well. All your quote shows is that they didn't disclose the name of their race at that point in time, but it doesn't mean that within 6 months they never said, "Oh btw we're actual Ancients."


The Ancients already knew how to Ascend normally. Yet they needed to use the Sanctuary even though they could evacuate through the Gate? Also, it took them "generations" to figure it out?

They made it clear that the Ancients made the sanctuary for themselves to begin with even though they could hide in Atlantis or evacuate through the gate during the time of the Wraith conflict. So, I don't see why those Ancients couldn't also be using it when Shepard came upon them. Also this last episode established that not all Ancients could ascend on their own. Many were mentally left behind and so they were probably those in the society who took jobs other than scientists (that's probably while crewmembers on a battleship activated the room when they got to Atlantis). Even those who managed to reach the mental state couldn't gain ascention after a lifetime of meditation, also according to this episode. So, why couldn't a group of Ancients which probably had no research on ascention to reference be unable to ascend for generations and/or produce children before they figured it out for themselves (the only reason the last group figured it out all at once was because of Shepard)? Research is a key point to them and so is reaching a level of enlightenment. If anything this episode showed that intelligence doesn't equal enlightenment.


John also said all of the Ancients he'd met were arrogant and condescending. Those "Ancients" in "Epiphany" were stupid and helpless.

As I recall he also met a rather attractive female Ancient who was caring, kind, and ignored the rules to help people only to be punished for it. He also met a starship captain who he seemed to have a respect for. The only thing the captain did was not believe his wild story at first, which Shepard wouldn't believe either if someone appeared on Atlantis and tried to sell it to him in the middle of a crisis. I think he said "all" the Ancients simply to make a point to Weir and also because of the memory of those who took over Atlantis still fresh in his mind. So, since it's clear that not all of the ones he met were like that, (at least one wasn't for sure) you can't use that as an argument to show that they weren't Ancients.

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 06:27 AM
Flanigan said in an interview that the episode (Epiphany) was a bit of a disappointment for him because they had planned it to be so much better, but it fell short for whatever reason. That could mean that they intended to go into the backstory about how they were Ancients and while I always assumed they were Humans I don't think this goes against anything said in that episode.

The woman said her people found the place a few hundred years ago. Now it's unknown if that meant a few hundred years real time or bubble time but it's very possible that there were Ancients who were cut off from Atlantis for whatever reason and so they missed them leaving back for Earth. By the time they managed to get to someplace where a stargate was several generations had passed and the gate address to Atlantis wasn't passed down. However, through the group's explorations they came upon the place which Ancients did in fact need 10,000 years ago. Of course this is all speculation, but the point is that it's not impossible.



Excuse me, but that quote doesn't add any evidence to your theory. He specifically says that they are from a race of people who revered "those who came before them." That line could mean anything, but we as Humans use it to refer to our Human ancestors, not a different species. So, there's no reason they couldn't have been talking about their own ancestors as well.
Since when is Teer a man?

"I'm from a race of people who revered those who came before us, those who created this place."

No one talks about their ancestors in this way. Also note that not once did they say they were Ancients.

There is absolutely no proof that those morons were Ancients. For one thing, 100 years of real time = 250,000 years inside the sanctuary. 100 years of their time inside of the sanctuary = 146 days of real time.

So unless the morons stepped through the gate, say, a year and a half ago or they stepped through the gate a few hundred years ago (having roamed Pegasus for thousands of years without meeting anyone who recognized them as Ancients, having inbred with each other to keep their genes pure and having somehow forgotten where the stupid Cloister was)... no.

At least I have some kind of proof for my standpoint. The only proof they were Ancients is the fact that the writers decided to call them that in "The Tao of Rodney" (and we know they've never been wrong before!).

jonno
December 13th, 2006, 06:30 AM
I rarely ever post in the actual episode discussion threads. Because over 50% of all posts in there will be random praising/knocking on the episode or a collective of what they thought of the episode. It's a giant spamfest of "I loved it!" and "I hated it!".

No useful discussion is ever brought up in those threads. In fact, if you throw in an issue, it's likely to get lost in the spam.

And since I came here back in December/January, people have created new threads every time an episode airs.

While I admit that this thread isn't that important and we could've lived without it, I won't admit to it going against any written or unwritten rules. We discuss the stupidest things such as "Who would win in X vs Y?". At least this one has some merit to it.

RE the bit in bold ... tough - if you make an interesting enough point, some people in there will respond.. The episode threads are there to discuss whatever little plot points etc there are in a particular episode. Stuff only needs to be brought out of there if it covers a larger ark in the series with reference to a number of episodes. This sort of thread isn't.

Oh - and you mention that this doesn't go against 'any written or unwritten rules'
Well - actually ...


Look for the right thread. If you can find a thread already discussing a topic or episode, post there instead of starting a new thread. Every episode already has its own thread in each season's "Episodes" subfolder.

So, it kinda goes against the actual rules of the forum ... you know, those things you ticked you'd read at sign up? The ones every member is supposed to follow?

Sorry, excuse my sarcasm. My point is, those rules exist for a reason - in this case so that the season folder doesn't get clogged up with 50 thousand threads debating each and every seperate plot point in the latest episode. The episode threads are there to collate all these points together, so the more general threads in the folder don't get pushed down at lost in the mess.

As for the supposed topic of this thread ... it's one of those things you have to live with to avoid 40 minutes of every sci-fi episode being wasted trying to decipher the alien language of the week. It's one of those areas in sci-fi shows that you have to just go with for the sake of the actual genre to work.

Marcus117
December 13th, 2006, 07:17 AM
Taking the ZPM from the children would be useless. They didn't know that the Daedalus was coming.

The machine is not a death sentence. Rodney figured out how to reverse the process using his old DNA. So anyone who uses the machine and doesn't turn into goop (which was just randomly thrown in there to negate the greatness of the machine so that they wouldn't constantly revisit it) won't have to either die or Ascend as long as they have a blood sample (or any other genetic material) for reference.

The fact that the machine turns people into goop was a randomly throw in plot point... yes.

And it was thrown in there to give a reason why people won't constantly revist the machine and use it time after time...

But that doesn't mean said plot point isn't true within the show... ergo no matter how it was thought up or placed in the episode it is TRUE.

THE MACHINE MAY TURN YOU INTO GOOP!

It's official.

Marcus117
December 13th, 2006, 07:25 AM
Wait... I don't understand why you've made a full thread about this, rather than just commenting in the episode discussion.

Eh?

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 07:49 AM
The fact that the machine turns people into goop was a randomly throw in plot point... yes.

And it was thrown in there to give a reason why people won't constantly revist the machine and use it time after time...

But that doesn't mean said plot point isn't true within the show... ergo no matter how it was thought up or placed in the episode it is TRUE.

THE MACHINE MAY TURN YOU INTO GOOP!

It's official.
And my point is it's worth it if we one day need to figure out a way to defeat the Asurans quickly.

Atlanis
December 13th, 2006, 07:56 AM
There is one thing that i am supprised they didn't menation : Adien Ford
that device can be used to cure him of his enzyme problem

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 07:57 AM
And my point is it's worth it if we one day need to figure out a way to defeat the Asurans quickly.

My problem with that theory is that:

a) the goop-making factor is random so there's no guarantee that anyone would get advanced at all and you may just be needlessly sacrificing lives for no benefit (if there was a confirmed ratio - e.g. out of 10 people 1 will survive - then maybe); and

b) McKay's abilities took hours and days to develop - this is not an option that would be useful to "defeat [an enemy] quickly".

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 07:58 AM
There is one thing that i am supprised they didn't menation : Adien Ford
that device can be used to cure him of his enzyme problem

OOooh good point! They could use it to reset his DNA - if he didn't get gooped. :D

Of course, the problem with Aiden is not that they can't cure him - Beckett thought he could way back in Season 2 - but that he doesn't want to be cured...

Mikaeru
December 13th, 2006, 08:02 AM
The answer is quite simple, if you ask me, since they left from the SGC which is located in America, and the American military is the military present on Atlantis it would only make sense that all of the equipment that they brought to Atlantis is from America as well... That being said, all the bathroom scales would measure in pounds. lol ^-^

Marcus117
December 13th, 2006, 08:03 AM
Exactly.

The problem is that we don't know what the chances are that a person would get killed.

McKay might have been a one in a million survivor of the process.

Your saying that 1 in 4 people would get super powers - and ergo that justifies the risk, but that isn't an official figure, nor is it based on any evidence from the show itself.

Simply put, you could put 100'000 people into that machine and all of them would get killed - or you could put 100'000 people into that machine and none of them would.

We just don't know the ratio for it all.

carcer
December 13th, 2006, 08:11 AM
In this episope Mcay mentioned when he was hyper intelligent that he had worked out a way to make hyperspace modifications to the puddle jumpers.
Do you think we will see this again or do you think that it will fall into the black hole?

I loved this episodes and I really hope they look into Rodney's work and see if they can figure some of it out.
What do you think?

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 08:14 AM
My problem with that theory is that:

a) the goop-making factor is random so there's no guarantee that anyone would get advanced at all and you may just be needlessly sacrificing lives for no benefit (if there was a confirmed ratio - e.g. out of 10 people 1 will survive - then maybe); and

b) McKay's abilities took hours and days to develop - this is not an option that would be useful to "defeat [an enemy] quickly".
"Quickly" does not mean immediately. It's better than to wait for 3 weeks while you know the Wraith are coming and doing nothing.

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 08:15 AM
RE the bit in bold ... tough - if you make an interesting enough point, some people in there will respond.. The episode threads are there to discuss whatever little plot points etc there are in a particular episode. Stuff only needs to be brought out of there if it covers a larger ark in the series with reference to a number of episodes. This sort of thread isn't.

Oh - and you mention that this doesn't go against 'any written or unwritten rules'
Well - actually ...



So, it kinda goes against the actual rules of the forum ... you know, those things you ticked you'd read at sign up? The ones every member is supposed to follow?

Sorry, excuse my sarcasm. My point is, those rules exist for a reason - in this case so that the season folder doesn't get clogged up with 50 thousand threads debating each and every seperate plot point in the latest episode. The episode threads are there to collate all these points together, so the more general threads in the folder don't get pushed down at lost in the mess.

As for the supposed topic of this thread ... it's one of those things you have to live with to avoid 40 minutes of every sci-fi episode being wasted trying to decipher the alien language of the week. It's one of those areas in sci-fi shows that you have to just go with for the sake of the actual genre to work.
Following that rule anally, there wouldn't be a single thread anywhere besides in the episode threads unless it's a thread that spans more than one episode.

Reichiru
December 13th, 2006, 08:16 AM
Well, as a McWeir shipper, I'm definitely not going to complain about this episode (500 pages? man, oh man). ;) I loved the McShep too. Heck, I loved everything, although I think they could have added a little more Teyla. But I suppose the fact that he focused more on Elizabeth and John made sense because they're probably the closest to him. I really hope to see some more Rodney/Ronan interaction because they are such an odd couple and it just... works.

Not gonna lie though, I would have loved more angst. I wish instead of being all "omgz, I'm smart!" he would have done a little more "holy crap this is the end." But that's just me.

And to whom ever said they felt Rodney was being a jerk in the end, he's just teasing her. I mean, he's totally pleased with the fact that she said it (I think any man would be), but you can tell he's just trying to ease the tension of the moment and I think she realized that... although I think she looked a bit embarrassed about it. haha. :weiranime32: :mckay09: But I'll stop before all of my McWeir gushing spills over. I'll go do that in its designated thread. *frolics off*

Marcus117
December 13th, 2006, 08:23 AM
Actually - Season arcs... Casting news... General episode order... Future theories... General opinion on the Season... How episodes interact...

All of these would come under the discussion for Season Three, what your posting is specific to ONLY one episode. Your spamming for no reason.

Stop it.

And don't argue negatively with people who are trying to be nice, your coming across as big headed and condescending.

prion
December 13th, 2006, 08:26 AM
My gawd, I'm just glad he didn't ask in metric!! ;)

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 08:30 AM
The more logical way to go about it would've been for Ronon to simply say that Rodney "Looked slightly heavier than usual" or something like that.

jonno
December 13th, 2006, 08:30 AM
Following that rule anally, there wouldn't be a single thread anywhere besides in the episode threads unless it's a thread that spans more than one episode.

Yes, i thought i'd be ignored. Normally i wouldn't raise the issue, because it's the odd thread created by a random person - but when one person does this as persistantly as this, i thought they might like a refresher in the finer points of rule obeying.

OK, think of it like this - if every single person on the forum thought that the only way they'd get their opinion heard was to start a thread for every single one of their thoughts, then there wouldn't be any threads with more than 1 reply in the first 50 pages of a folder. Fortunately, most people don't. I think there have been more Tao Of Rodney threads started in the past couple of days than threads i have begun in my entire time at GateWorld..

Ah well. Like I said, I expected it be brushed off.

Marcus117
December 13th, 2006, 08:33 AM
The more logical way to go about it would've been for Ronon to simply say that Rodney "Looked slightly heavier than usual" or something like that.

Are you just ignoring any arguments leveled to you?

Maf.e.u
December 13th, 2006, 08:34 AM
I was reading they are cut off from Earth in S4 so hyperspace puddle jumpers would be very useful.

Ol'Merlin
December 13th, 2006, 08:35 AM
I hope we see it, but (as I said elsewhere) hyperspaced PJs seem to be less a brilliant idea than having some sort of weapons or superior power source for Atlantis. Why didn't Rodney make ZPMs or some sort of advanced laser/ion/disruptor cannon? If we do see it, I don't think it'll be for a short while...ie, next episode will be a little too soon. Maybe by mid-part1ofseason4 we'll see it, at the latest. If we do.

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 08:43 AM
Are you just ignoring any arguments leveled to you?
What should I reply with? "I conceede"? "I disagree, but will keep quiet"? OK, so I admit to creating too many threads (I already have... twice). But two of them did not pertain just to this episode.

Radek's grammar, the possible uses of the machine are all vital issues that span more than just what happened here (though the machine thread is pure speculation).

And at least there were no threads dedicated to discussing the things I made threads for (besides the episode discussion thread, but I've never seen anyone tell people to go there to discus things).

Yes, I was overzealous and created to many threads this time. It won't be repeated (unless some episode comes along and resume 5 different plotlines from past episodes). Happy?

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 08:45 AM
I'm still curious of how the hell we're gonna be cut off. The only way for that to happen is by having all three ZPMs depleted/destroyed and ("First Strike" spoilers) all three BC-303s/DSC-30Xs (Daedalus, Odyssey, Apollo) destroyed along with our capability to build new ones.

Ancala
December 13th, 2006, 09:02 AM
Sooo... who was the cute scientist thinking was hot? ;) :D


According to the credits: Dr. Esposito, played by Leela Savasta.

I wouldn't mind seeing her again in upcoming episodes.

wise one
December 13th, 2006, 09:31 AM
I'm still curious of how the hell we're gonna be cut off. The only way for that to happen is by having all three ZPMs depleted/destroyed and ("First Strike" spoilers) all three BC-303s/DSC-30Xs (Daedalus, Odyssey, Apollo) destroyed along with our capability to build new ones.

maybe earth has the problem not us, maybe the ori has bombarded earth

Alipeeps
December 13th, 2006, 09:31 AM
According to the credits: Dr. Esposito, played by Leela Savasta.

I wouldn't mind seeing her again in upcoming episodes.

No, you misunderstand me. I was wondering who (Rodney or Ronon) the cute scientist "Dr Esposito") was thinking "He's hot!" about. :D It was meant to be kinda a joke... ;)

Actually... here's a thought that occured to me... is Dr Esposito, or the actress who played her, the same cute scientist we saw Sheppard smiling at in his flashback in No Man's Land?

Tao of Rodney:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f260/Alipeeps/SGA/Season%203/Tao%20of%20Rodney/Esposito.jpg

No Man's Land:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f260/Alipeeps/SGA/Season%203/No%20Mans%20Land/Cutescientist.jpg

Hmmmmm.. maybe not. Similar though... :D

draconic
December 13th, 2006, 09:40 AM
maybe earth has the problem not us, maybe the ori has bombarded earth
very possible the ori took over Cheyenne mountain

nonniemous
December 13th, 2006, 09:48 AM
No, you misunderstand me. I was wondering who (Rodney or Ronon) the cute scientist "Dr Esposito") was thinking "He's hot!" about. :D It was meant to be kinda a joke... ;)


No, but she's obviously another Doogie Howser Babe-o-matic Doctor, Pegasus Galaxy style.

/sigh/

xfkirsten
December 13th, 2006, 09:50 AM
My guess was that she'd done a fair bit of research and talking with Daniel during her stint as head of SGC and the Atlantis expedition.... It's also quite common for int'l development/ diplomats to be interested in/know more about different spiritual/cultural beliefs (hence, all those "token" souveniers in her office and also the "hippy" persona that Torri herself has)? Of course, it could easily just be the writers needing to give Torri more substantial scenes (unfortunately, in this case at the expense of Rachel - who would have been more suited for the meditation bit).

That's pretty much what I figured, too - it was just odd that
it came up so suddenly, when she's never really mentioned it before.

immhotep
December 13th, 2006, 09:54 AM
Or perhaps the Asurians attack or left a device behind which blows up our 8th cheveron lock ability. But i still dont see how they can do that, we have the gatebridge. Unless they take out: Earth's ZPM, all our ships, all our ZPM's, the midway station, and the Asgard (who can after all give us a lift if they wanted too) then i dont see how we can get cut off unless we deliberately seperate ourselves from earth's goverment.

J_B
December 13th, 2006, 09:54 AM
I'm still curious of how the hell we're gonna be cut off. The only way for that to happen is by having all three ZPMs depleted/destroyed and ("First Strike" spoilers) all three BC-303s/DSC-30Xs (Daedalus, Odyssey, Apollo) destroyed along with our capability to build new ones.

What I think will happen is Weir orders the destruction of the midway station to stop the Asurans getting to Earth.

Deadalus is taken back to fight the Ori in the MW. If MP has the new role on Daybreak. Then they'd either need to kill him off as captain in order to continue using Daedalus, or send it back to Earth. The only reason it would go back is to help battle Ori. The other alternative is to destroy Daedalus but have the crew get off safely. Sort of sacrifice the ship for something etc.

So that explains the 304's being absent in S4. Hence that's part of them cut off.

The only other thing is the ZPM's (Spoilers for 'Echoes':

I think the SGC uses up theirs in the outpost when/if the Ori attack Earth. Odyssey most likely has theirs get depleted as well.

That only leaves Atlantis with 1, which is already depleted thanks to 'Echoes'. So it's possible that they decide to cut out the regular updates to the SGC in order to conserve their power.

So that could explain it why they say about cut off. However this next bit with regards to spoilers from 'First Strike' may also reveal about their ZPM as well.

In the finale Atlantis flys & sinks in the very same episode. So I'd imagine that would eat up a lot of power in firing up the Stardrive as well as getting it to submerge again.

However we know it's not totally cut off because:

Carter comes over for some eps in S4.

psychofilly
December 13th, 2006, 09:55 AM
It's definitely going in my top five, maybe my top three so far in the run of the series. I don't even care about the Trekkian hand wave explanation at the end, though it wasn't that bad. The character moments were so dead on, within the parameters of canon. Since we know they can't show them all having the big gay love like I want them to.

Rodney's detracters may get weary of Rodney focused episodes and I empathize in theory, but as long as they are like this, I say keep them coming. We got a lot of character development from several characters besides Rodney, namely Weir, who really shone here.

The scene when Rodney healed Ronon's scars, was so simple, respectful, perfect and right for who they are. The only other times I've teared up like that was when Gall killed himself in front of Rodney, and when Grodin died. And omg, Hewlett's woobie-face just slayed me when he was hugging Ronon. Slayed me dead. Same with Ronon's hug at the end (Which totally makes up for and pays off the lack of a hug in Sateda).

I can't help but feel the writers are playing with the slashers when Elizabeth orders John to help Rodney "release his burdens" and they end up in John's room with candles. Uh, yeah. :) I also love how we see John being avoidy about the emotional issues and then tearing up as Rodney's talking about blue skies and shutting up. As much as he tries to hide it, he's only human, and I think that's when it finally hit him that his boybest friend was actually dying.

The tea thing with Teyla didn't get to me, until Rodney said he was going to serve her. Again, it was simple and perfect and honored Teyla as a person and an Athosian. Rodney is so very perceptive under all that bluster, ain't he?

Again with the gaytasticness, he makes his peace and bestows gifts on those in his family, but John is the one whom he is basically making his executor, taking care of his wishes at the end. It said a lot to me, that despite Rodney asking for reassurance, there was nothing that really needed to be said, done or made right between them. Above all else they are best friends and equals. They are there for each other even if they feel it's stupid, uncomfortable or embarrasing, like meditating.

I also loved Rodney's little man-crush on Elizabeth. I've caught a wiff of something from Rodney before. In his need to be reassuring and at times gentle with her. Hewlett has always shown Rodney as valuing her respect in a way he hasn't with any other female on either show. (He values Sam's too, but as a competitor and colleague, and only recently as a friend).

I really feel they've taken Rodney quite far this season, and hope they don't pull a Wheonesque, "We've done all we can with Rodney" attitude. Like Daniel on SG1, there are lots of ways that they can go from here, though I hope he doesn't go the ascension path.

Also like Daniel, I think Rodney is the core (or heart) of the show, even though John, like Jack, is the titular lead. It'll be interesting to see where they go from here, though I suspect on the surface we'll see mostly the same Rodney, they've been very good, I think, of sneaking moments in where we can see his growth, like when he stepped back out from behind everyone when Kolya was threatening to shoot him, or when he shushed the soldier who felt guilty that Rodney was having to help carry him after complaining so loudly about his back in Phantoms.

Also, I didn't really think about the fact that Rodney was sitting apart from his team, but I can imagine he does from time to time, especially if he's taking a "working" lunch (he did have his laptop there), and doesn't want to get distracted with the other two magpie's on his team. I mean, seriously, John and Ronon are discussing Rodney's weight? OMG like, Teyla works with a bunch of girls. She could probably take Olympic gold in eyerolling because of those three. I love it.

So yeah, loved it.

psychofilly
December 13th, 2006, 10:03 AM
No, you misunderstand me. I was wondering who (Rodney or Ronon) the cute scientist "Dr Esposito") was thinking "He's hot!" about. :D It was meant to be kinda a joke... :D

Rodney at first thinks she's talking about him, then realizes she means Ronon as he reads her mind.

Also, reagarding the actress. It doesn't look like the same actress, but it certainly seems like it's supposed to be the same character, especially since John specifically mentions her really great... smile.

Luz
December 13th, 2006, 10:03 AM
I can't help but feel the writers are playing with the slashers when Elizabeth orders John to help Rodney "release his burdens" and they end up in John's room with candles. Uh, yeah. :) I also love how we see John being avoidy about the emotional issues and then tearing up as Rodney's talking about blue skies and shutting up. As much as he tries to hide it, he's only human, and I think that's when it finally hit him that his boybest friend was actually dying.

But wait, haven't tptb denied the mere existence of slash every time it's been mentioned to them?, surely they'd never go against one of their statements.
I wondered about that too, because it would have been more logical for Teyla to be helping him meditate, since she's been shown to be very spiritual, and John was only doing it because Elizabeth made him do it.
The only explanation I can think of is that the writers wanted another cute scene with Sheppard and McKay.
I liked the scenes between McKay and everyone, this actor has chemistry with anything that moves, though it should have been McKay and Teyla meditating, this is such a fun pairing, but tptb rarely play with it.

Klenotka
December 13th, 2006, 10:11 AM
Wow, psychofilly, I think I wouldn´t say it better. I can´t agree more. Let´s hope that they won´t kill his development. I think that even it is Rodney´s episode, all characters around him are very well used and developed.

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 10:14 AM
What I think will happen is Weir orders the destruction of the midway station to stop the Asurans getting to Earth.

Deadalus is taken back to fight the Ori in the MW. If MP has the new role on Daybreak. Then they'd either need to kill him off as captain in order to continue using Daedalus, or send it back to Earth. The only reason it would go back is to help battle Ori. The other alternative is to destroy Daedalus but have the crew get off safely. Sort of sacrifice the ship for something etc.

So that explains the 304's being absent in S4. Hence that's part of them cut off.

The only other thing is the ZPM's (Spoilers for 'Echoes':

I think the SGC uses up theirs in the outpost when/if the Ori attack Earth. Odyssey most likely has theirs get depleted as well.

That only leaves Atlantis with 1, which is already depleted thanks to 'Echoes'. So it's possible that they decide to cut out the regular updates to the SGC in order to conserve their power.

So that could explain it why they say about cut off. However this next bit with regards to spoilers from 'First Strike' may also reveal about their ZPM as well.

In the finale Atlantis flys & sinks in the very same episode. So I'd imagine that would eat up a lot of power in firing up the Stardrive as well as getting it to submerge again.

However we know it's not totally cut off because:

Carter comes over for some eps in S4.
Just because Mitch Pileggi might be leaving doesn't mean the Daedalus is. The Prometheus had a total of four captains, after all, before its untimely demise.

wise one, I doubt the 1st movie ends the Ori storyline by having the Ori invade the galaxy and enslaving us.

Pitry
December 13th, 2006, 10:14 AM
Beautiful. Just beautiful. Stunningly beautiful, too.

I loved it. They really aniled team itneraction in that one. These 7 don't feel like strangers anymore. I'm especially happy Rodney was allwoed to play with Teyla and Ronon for a change. He actually ahd a scene alone with Teyla! Gasp. Who would have thought. Weir was excellent, too. And Ronon is really starting to develop a point, for several episodes straight! Wow, who would have though :) However, I still think they missed a great opportunity there for Ronon when Rodney asks him about his scars (oh! Not to mention the Batman discussion. Ronon as Rodney's sidekick... or rather, "fatman's" sidekick... ha!). But my favourite bits were with Radek. The beginning, when Rodney kept on frustrating him, when Rodney saved his life and ran out of the room before anyoen could say anythign, when he came and apologised... Did I mention the word beautiful? ;)

Okay, next time someone has a close encounter with an Ancient, let it be Elizabeth! It seems everyone else (including gasp! Sheppard) agree with me about the Ancients' stupidity and arrogance. It's aout time Weir saw that they're less than perfect, too. esepcialyl with all her knowledge about their constant screw ups.

Speaking of Weir, everyone pining up to her to be the next superhero and her exasperated looks! Beautiful. OH, and "yeah yeah, with great power comes great responsibility"... mwaha.

Hmm... maybe I'm abit Daniel centred (okay, definietly I'm a bit Daniel centric) - but it did seem odd they didn't even mention him! Oh, well. Since we don't know how much the shows parallel, I can make up excuses - spoilers for the second half of season 10 and decide that when this episode takes place Daniel is beign Priorised by the Orii..
Speaing of Daniel... so that's how Meridian woudl have looked like had MS not left trhe show! hehe. It's actually interesting, seeing the contrast between the prolly msot spiritual regular character in the Stargate universe, Daniel, and the least one, Rodney. While they'er doing the same thing in these two episodes, Daniel's confronting with his life was true to his character, while Rodney's running away from it was so true to his. I think that on these terms, Rodney migth end up being even a bigger sceptic than Jack. However, I'm extremely grateful he didn't ascend. I was erally about to cringe there when it seemed he would.
Ah, and I think he figured outt he solutino on his own. As he did reach teh levels encessary for ascension, he probably already started the process when it hit him - some sort of limbo, right before ascension. Prolly knew all he needed to know then.
Oh, yeah, speaking of Rodney's deniel, I wonder what of the thigns he's done would play a part in future episodes. Great to wait and find out. :)

Callie
December 13th, 2006, 10:14 AM
The opening exchange between Rodney and Radek had me wondering whether Radek would eventually tell how he and his family – all 150 of them – used to live in a shoe box in the middle of the road ... ;-)

I don’t recall Rodney ever saying “anyways” before, but he says it a lot in this episode. Then again, so does Carson, so maybe it’s a Damian Kindler thing.

If Rodney has to concentrate totally on meditating, they could have done with turning off that annoying beep on the monitor every time his EEG level changed!

I smiled emotionally when Rodney offered the tea ceremony to Teyla. I smiled even more emotionally when he hugged Ronon. When he told him what he’d done to his scars, I broke down in tears. Typing up the transcript afterwards (http://www.brundle.free-online.co.uk/Transcript_Index.html), I was in floods from the moment he went to see Radek and for the next half hour of typing.

Athosian pottery sure is strong. Apparently the pot that John gave Elizabeth for her birthday survived the destruction of the tower and is still in pride of place on her desk.

immhotep
December 13th, 2006, 10:15 AM
Im sorry but i think the benefit of this machine override every "goop factor" out there. Imagine how much could be done with this machine, i thought khaleks device was incredible but this could literally revolusionise our entire species. We could BE ancients. Notj ust live in the city and hope to be a ambitious as them but be them.
We know how the device works, just like with the KD in the Mw, but this one is more precise, im sure we have blood samples from Khalek and from rodney, we could program either machine to only take the evolution to a certain point and no further, this "mode" was all the way and ascend when you reach Go. We dont have to do that, we can limit to say 55% Brain activity, that was when rodeny was at his peak, when he was doing the 9 Laptop thing and making breakthrough that could really change SGA as we know it.
Now put that 55% on to every scientist in atlantis and Area 51 and the SGC. Can you imagine the breakthroughs, Mkcay and carter at 55% could IMO make every other person on the shows obsolete.
Also this machine could be used for other purposes, has anyone considered the Asgard! they have a genetic sample from their preclone makeup, they could at least try fiddling about with this thing, they could literally design the perfect body. Half Asgard, half ancient.

Also thinking much bigger, imagine if we could train a thousand people how to ascend, at will. The ancients need the numbers to fight the Ori as far as i can see it, if we ascend enough poeple we might change the balence of power up there. Even if we dont, the journey toward ascension could be the amazing. Also think about daniel, now he doesnt need "permision" to ascend, if this works on Mkcay he can waltz on up there and make speaches whenever he likes, im sure the ascended cant force you to not retake human form, what can they do, kill you :D ?

I dont care what mkcay says about people being turned in to goop, the amount of people who die for stupid reasons is enough as it is...at least they might do something this way. Imagine the benefit it could yeild for medical purposes, reseting the human condition to before cancer takes hold, improving the imune system, curing disabilities.

Man that machine could do SO much for our world, and the show that its painfull, actually painfull to know how pathetic its going to be in a few weeks when the PTB throw it in to the black hole of amazing technology that they throw anything that is of any use to human kind in to. Its infuriating!

Rant over.
Immhotep

Luz
December 13th, 2006, 10:18 AM
Athosian pottery sure is strong. Apparently the pot that John gave Elizabeth for her birthday survived the destruction of the tower and is still in pride of place on her desk.
Maybe she took it to Earth, so it wasn't in the tower when it got destroyed.

Iguana775
December 13th, 2006, 10:22 AM
I thought it was odd, too, that the machine didnt create a 'System Restore' point for the person's DNA in the machine. It would make sense to get a before and after sample of the DNA. If Microsoft can figure out how to create restore points on your computer before installing programs, surely the Ancients could do the same with a DNA manipulation device. lol

But good episode. Loved the Batman and Ronan part! LOL.

btw, anyone else think that Weir was trying to hint that when McKay figured out how to fix himself, that he may have gotten help from a real ascended Ancient? I kind of got that feeling.

also, I would assume that the could adapt the sheild mods that McKay came up with for the Deady to all the other earth ships. and I'm really surprised that he didnt try to understand how a ZPM is made.

psychofilly
December 13th, 2006, 10:27 AM
But wait, haven't tptb denied the mere existence of slash every time it's been mentioned to them?, surely they'd never go against one of their statements. ;)
I wondered about that too, because it would have been more logical for Teyla to be helping him meditate, since she's been shown to be very spiritual, and John was only doing it because Elizabeth made him do it.
The only explanation I can think of is that the writers wanted another cute scene with Sheppard and McKay.
I liked the scenes between McKay and everyone, this actor has chemistry with anything that moves, though it should have been McKay and Teyla meditating, this is such a fun pairing, but tptb rarely play with it.

Hee. Well, I'm sure some of it is me reading into it, and I don't think the Executive Producers approve, but that doesn't mean the individual writers can't sneak stuff in, and then you get down to how the actors sometimes portray what is written, and Rodney has acted a lot like a smitten kitten towards John all throughout the series, and sometimes I've seen hints of the same from John. Sometimes the "We're manly men" type of scenes play exactly the opposite to some people.

So yeah, even though it would make more sense for Teyla to be doing the meditating we get John. I also find it interesting that they were meditating, *in John's room*! I mean, if they were going for comfortable and relaxing, you'd think they'd be in Rodney's room, or if John were uncomfortable, in nuetral territory like a lab... but no. That tells me Rodney feels safe and at home in John's personal space and John's perfectly okay with it. And that tells me.. something. :sheppard:

Of course this is the first show where I've become a full blown slasher as opposed to sticking mainly with het and I know a lot of people don't see the same things. And I completely agree, Hewlett has chemistry with everyone. They all spark in such fun and unique ways.

Luz
December 13th, 2006, 10:43 AM
Of course this is the first show where I've become a full blown slasher as opposed to sticking mainly with het and I know a lot of people don't see the same things. And I completely agree, Hewlett has chemistry with everyone. They all spark in such fun and unique ways.

It's the same to me, slash used to squick me out, but Sheppard and McKay are so cute, and they just have such good chemistry I just can't help it, I love this pairing, I'm still into het, but the slash is so good on SGA.
And I agree on the rest too, when the characters connect so well all the denial in the world cannot make it disappear.

stargate maniack
December 13th, 2006, 10:50 AM
I was reading they are cut off from Earth in S4 so hyperspace puddle jumpers would be very useful.

where did you read that? how are they cut off??

ItsDan
December 13th, 2006, 10:52 AM
I doubt it will be a problem on Earth's end. It will probably take quite awhile to get the movies out. If major stuff happens on Earth between the end of SG1 and the movies it will either need to be explained in Atlantis, or not mentioned and be a plot hole.

mircalla
December 13th, 2006, 10:52 AM
Imhotep, you seem to have forgotten that this is a story!

FallenAngelII
December 13th, 2006, 11:05 AM
I doubt it will be a problem on Earth's end. It will probably take quite awhile to get the movies out. If major stuff happens on Earth between the end of SG1 and the movies it will either need to be explained in Atlantis, or not mentioned and be a plot hole.
I read the movies are getting released this summer/fall.

the old briar pipe
December 13th, 2006, 11:27 AM
I liked seeing more of Zelenka - because he's just so...Zelenka...and he should never be missed... :) He really deserved that apology from Rodney. Altho if I was Radek I'd still be freaked out by Rodney touching my chest lol.

Heehee.... I'm seeing even more Rodney/Radek slash in the future. But that scene is great for the Weir/Z fans, too. So much love!

But I admit to being bone-deep scared when the lightning went through him - after all the other recurring characters they've killed off, my gut reaction was "noooooo~!"

psychofilly
December 13th, 2006, 11:38 AM
It's the same to me, slash used to squick me out, but Sheppard and McKay are so cute, and they just have such good chemistry I just can't help it, I love this pairing, I'm still into het, but the slash is so good on SGA.
And I agree on the rest too, when the characters connect so well all the denial in the world cannot make it disappear.

I think that's what does it for me. The ships are fun on this show and the shippers are friendly and sane. Also, it's a show where you can throw anyone with anyone and just about make every couple stick. I also love Rodney with Ronon or Sam or Weir and sometimes even Teyla and secretly Cadman. I love Weir with Ronon, Zelenka, Caldwell or Lorne. Shep, I can really only see with one (or all) of his team. Mainly Rodney, but I can see and appreciate J/R and J/T. That was one of the fun things about this episode, there was a little something for just about everyone.

Tidbits for all!

Luz
December 13th, 2006, 11:50 AM
But I admit to being bone-deep scared when the lightning went through him - after all the other recurring characters they've killed off, my gut reaction was "noooooo~!"

They wouldn't dare, it's enough knowing about Carson, but not Zinka. And if he were a puppy his tail would wag whenever he sees Elizabeth. :P


I think that's what does it for me. The ships are fun on this show and the shippers are friendly and sane. Also, it's a show where you can throw anyone with anyone and just about make every couple stick. I also love Rodney with Ronon or Sam or Weir and sometimes even Teyla and secretly Cadman. I love Weir with Ronon, Zelenka, Caldwell or Lorne. Shep, I can really only see with one (or all) of his team. Mainly Rodney, but I can see and appreciate J/R and J/T. That was one of the fun things about this episode, there was a little something for just about everyone.

Tidbits for all!

I always start with an OTP (in this case Sheppard/Weir), but with time I start to dip my toes into other pairings, I just never imagined it would be slash.
Ronon/Weir is so dirtywrongbad it's good. :weiranime32:
Rodney goes with everyone.
I like episodes that have a little bit for everyone to enjoy so that people don't feel left out, it's disappointing when you like a pairing be it as friends, or as something more and there is nothing on an episode for you.
Ronon/Rodney is a rarity, but when there is some (like in Tao) it leaves this smile on my face, Rodney and Ronon are two people who don't show this sweet side to them so often, so when they do it feels special, it makes me squee. :P

lirenel
December 13th, 2006, 11:55 AM
I noticed that moment straight away and loved it.. just a little sly hint at what is starting to happen.. :D



I did wonder about that myself but honestly... I think it was just something of a clunky plot device to showcase McKay's new ability. I can't think of any reason why they would be sat separately - whether he arrived first on his own (which is odd cos Sheppard was with him when he said he was going for something to eat) or they arrived first and he later (again odd for the same reason as above), why would whoever arrived second choose to sit at a different table instead of joining their friend/team mate?

I don't think it was intentionally trying to say anything about the team's relationship... just, as I say, a rather unwieldy attempt to further the plot...

I haven't read the rest of the thread but wanted to write this down before I forgot it. I was thinking maybe the team came in together or something, but Rodney was maybe a little later getting his food so the others were already sitting down by the time he came back. Rodney, distracted by whatever was on his laptop, just followed the voices and sat down at the table he thought the team was at. (remember he said "I'm right here" as if he thought they were at the table) The team gets a little confused, and maybe a little hurt which accounts for the mean teasing.

Hmmm, maybe I should make that a fanfic.

immhotep
December 13th, 2006, 12:00 PM
Yes i know its a story, but one of the things that irritates me most about stargate is that they claim to be present day but never try and apply what they find to any kind of normal problem.

the old briar pipe
December 13th, 2006, 12:02 PM
Rodney goes with everyone.

Yes, exactly! Be it ship, slash, or gen, Rodney seems to bring people more into themselves. He's hard to handle, he pushes people's limits, but he surprises them, too. So even if my fav characters are usually Teyla, Ronon, and Elizabeth, I can love a Rodney ep for its effects on everyone else (and for DH, who is just lovely).

And more "Zinka" is always good. :lol:

jenks
December 13th, 2006, 12:03 PM
Actually they don't really claim to be present day, not 'our universe' present day anyway...