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GateWorld
November 19th, 2006, 09:47 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/317.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/317.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/317.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">SUNDAY</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 317</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The team tries to relax during a mandatory day off, until an explosion leaves three people dead -- and a scientist is believed to be another walking time bomb.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/317.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

O'Neill is funny
January 15th, 2007, 10:03 PM
Good but sad episode.

RIP Carson hopefully they find a way to bring him back. I liked the end where McKay talked to Carsons spirit for a final goodbye

SlytherinGal
January 15th, 2007, 10:07 PM
what?! :( soooo sad...gimme more spoilers :D this american loves her spoilers

windshieldbug
January 15th, 2007, 10:07 PM
A friend spoiled on LJ:
http://aphelant.livejournal.com/242737.html

Copernicus
January 15th, 2007, 10:07 PM
It was a nice touch that every single member of the cast had a chance to go fishing with him and they all passed it up. Maybe nice isn't the right word.

parisindy
January 15th, 2007, 10:12 PM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/mercurys_winter/cry2.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/parisindy/Smilies/candle.gif

rarocks24
January 15th, 2007, 10:19 PM
So much for the Michael/Beckett plot. :(

Jenner8675309
January 15th, 2007, 10:23 PM
what a waste

rarocks24
January 15th, 2007, 10:24 PM
On a brighter note, Sheppard was married!!!! :eek:

Jenner8675309
January 15th, 2007, 10:25 PM
On a brighter note, Sheppard was married!!!! :eek:

original. so was Jack.

rarocks24
January 15th, 2007, 10:27 PM
Just so long as Sheppard's son didn't kill himself. And Beckett being a ghost, maybe he ascended. :)

4prettierships
January 15th, 2007, 10:27 PM
original. so was Jack.

Jack's was known from the beginning though... this wasn't even hinted at! (as far as I could tell)

4prettierships
January 15th, 2007, 10:28 PM
Just so long as Sheppard's son didn't kill himself. And Beckett being a ghost, maybe he ascended. :)

Wait... Shepperd has a son!? Or was that just to say that it's relatively unlike Jack? :p Don't scare me like that if it is!!!

Copernicus
January 15th, 2007, 10:28 PM
original. so was Jack.
Yeah, and it didn't really seem to fit in all that well with his character. It was more of a "Everyone keeps demanding backstory about Sheppard." "I know! Let's say he was married!" "Yeah! That'll keep them off our backs for a while!" kind of deal.

gravelgerdie
January 15th, 2007, 10:28 PM
Well this just plain sucks noodles.... :(

I don't even get to see the ep yet.. but reading about it just makes me sad to... Carson gone, I hate that...
I hope he ascended and will descend soon.

Atlantean_Fan
January 15th, 2007, 10:30 PM
What's all the Shep's married deal about? How long and is he what divorced, widower (sp?)?

rarocks24
January 15th, 2007, 10:30 PM
Yeah, and it didn't really seem to fit in all that well with his character. It was more of a "Everyone keeps demanding backstory about Sheppard." "I know! Let's say he was married!" "Yeah! That'll keep them off our backs for a while!" kind of deal.

Actually, given Sheppard's kirking like tendencies, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason he was married. Notice the emphasis on the past tense. ;)

Copernicus
January 15th, 2007, 10:32 PM
Well this just plain sucks noodles.... :(

I don't even get to see the ep yet.. but reading about it just makes me sad to... Carson gone, I hate that...
I hope he ascended and will descend soon.
Let's be realistic. Carson really is not the type to ascend. If nice guy were enough, half of the characters in the fictional world of Stargate would ascend.

rarocks24
January 15th, 2007, 10:33 PM
Let's be realistic. Carson really is not the type to ascend. If nice guy were enough, half of the characters in the fictional world of Stargate would ascend.

Okay okay, we're thinking about this in entirely the wrong way, maybe he got transported into a different dimension. ;)

Copernicus
January 15th, 2007, 10:33 PM
Actually, given Sheppard's kirking like tendencies, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason he was married. Notice the emphasis on the past tense. ;)
I just don't see him ever being capable of even proposing. Getting action is one thing to him, but getting married is another.

4prettierships
January 15th, 2007, 10:34 PM
I just don't see him ever being capable of even proposing. Getting action is one thing to him, but getting married is another.

Maybe she proposed?? haha oh there is a thought! :cool:

Copernicus
January 15th, 2007, 10:35 PM
Okay okay, we're thinking about this in entirely the wrong way, maybe he got transported into a different dimension. ;)
His spirit lives on in the largest space trout of the Lantean ocean...

Ruined_puzzle
January 15th, 2007, 10:35 PM
LMAO at Sheppard being married.

Copernicus
January 15th, 2007, 10:37 PM
Maybe she proposed?? haha oh there is a thought! :cool:
Well I'm not saying it's impossible. It seems to me like it was just thrown in. Besides, he probably manage to screw up accepting a proposal too.

gravelgerdie
January 15th, 2007, 10:37 PM
Let's be realistic. Carson really is not the type to ascend. If nice guy were enough, half of the characters in the fictional world of Stargate would ascend.

Your right.. but Its still sad for Carson and his fans...... I did like him and hate to see him die.
But who knows what the writers will do in the future, they could possible in later shows say he ascended and then have him descend.. so who knows.

Copernicus
January 15th, 2007, 10:39 PM
Your right.. but Its still sad for Carson and his fans...... I did like him and hate to see him die.
But who knows what the writers will do in the future, they could possible in later shows say he ascended and then have him descend.. so who knows.
I'm working on a plot device to bring him back as I type this.

Writers of SGA: If by some remarkable fluke of nature you read this, I can have a proposal for a single episode that brings Carson back in your inbox in 24 hours. I was never really attached to him or anything, but I love a challenge.

rarocks24
January 15th, 2007, 10:42 PM
I'm working on a plot device to bring him back as I type this.

Writers of SGA: If by some remarkable fluke of nature you read this, I can have a proposal for a single episode that brings Carson back in your inbox in 24 hours. I was never really attached to him or anything, but I love a challenge.
Well, they could always pull an Ensign Kim. ;)

Jenner8675309
January 15th, 2007, 10:43 PM
Well, they could always pull an Ensign Kim. ;)

Since I only watch SG1 and SGA, what does that mean?

Copernicus
January 15th, 2007, 10:45 PM
Well, they could always pull an Ensign Kim. ;)
Have the Wraith Gift of Life Ernest Littlefield back about 50 years and BAM! Insta-Carson!

Uncle Tobias
January 15th, 2007, 10:48 PM
Since I only watch SG1 and SGA, what does that mean?

In one Star Trek Voyager episode, 'Deadlock' I think, the ship comes into contact with a 'parrallel' version with duplicates of all the crew. The 'real' Ensign Kim dies but the other version comes through (the parrallel ship is destroyed anyway) and stays with the 'real' crew, and it's never mentioned again.

I hope that made sense :) Basically like if Kawalski had stayed in our reality in one of the AU eps.

Jenner8675309
January 15th, 2007, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the explanation. Muchly appreciated

Copernicus
January 15th, 2007, 10:54 PM
We just need to find a universe where they accidentally cloned Beckett. It's so obvious.

HyperCaz
January 15th, 2007, 10:58 PM
John married? ARGH what a fraking cliche.

Mitchell82
January 15th, 2007, 10:58 PM
I know Carson dying is sad but was this a good ep or bad?

spirited Chihiro
January 15th, 2007, 11:03 PM
I know Carson dying is sad but was this a good ep or bad?

Well someone gave it a 9/10...and they didnt like the fact carson died...so that is a positive...but who knows what the majority thought?
I am interested as well

Uncle Tobias
January 15th, 2007, 11:09 PM
We just need to find a universe where they accidentally cloned Beckett. It's so obvious.

Here's how I'd do it:

Have an episode set on an alternative universe Atlantis. In this universe, the Ori have taken over Earth, and the Asurans/Wraith/Ori (take your pick) about to attack Atlantis.

In this reality Atlantis would be serving as the last bastion of humanity with some remaining SGC personal having evacuated there.

Carter could be there, and during the course of the ep she and Mckay find out how to pre-emptively stop the ori overtaking earth/whoever destroying atlantis. Could include Beckett by having something Nanovirus/ori plague related.

Only it's too late to save themselves, but they realise they can save another version of earth and atlantis that's closest to thier own. Carter reproduces the situation from 'ripple effect' to send someone through with a message containing (whatever vital, galaxy-saving info here), Atlantis falls under attack while this is happening and Carson goes through to 'our reality'. :)

Lorr
January 15th, 2007, 11:11 PM
Anyone have any details about what was actually in Sunday?

Wraith named Michael
January 15th, 2007, 11:13 PM
I will truly miss Carson. He was a great friend as well as a great doctor.

R.I.P Carson. You will surely be miss.:beckett:

Mitchell82
January 15th, 2007, 11:16 PM
I will truly miss Carson. He was a great friend as well as a great doctor.

R.I.P Carson. You will surely be miss.:beckett:

But did you like the ep?

O'Neill is funny
January 15th, 2007, 11:58 PM
This should have happened the same season SG1 lost their doctor.

Mitchell82
January 16th, 2007, 12:12 AM
This should have happened the same season SG1 lost their doctor.

Uh kinda hard since SGA hadnt even started yet.

O'Neill is funny
January 16th, 2007, 12:16 AM
Uh kinda hard since SGA hadnt even started yet.

Same season, not same time.

Nearfantastica
January 16th, 2007, 12:22 AM
Oh god, I just finished watching it....and did I ever cry over the last scene with Carson and Rodney! Poor Rodney!

On the note of Sheppard being married, how much you want to bet that it was a shotgun wedding that happened in his early 20s when he was more of an idiot than he is now? I bet he sunk his whole heart into it, and his family turned their backs on him because they thought he'd knocked some innocent girl up, and in the end, he cheated on her (kirk) and the marriage fell apart....

There. That explanation makes me happy.

IWKYZerocool
January 16th, 2007, 12:28 AM
This sounds like a brilliant episode, I will be watching this tonight after SG1 Line in the Sand.

starchild
January 16th, 2007, 12:31 AM
I want more! Spoil me, PLEASE!!!!;)

Nearfantastica
January 16th, 2007, 12:59 AM
PLOT spoilers. I've pretty much typed out everything I remember since some people were asking. Enjoy!

Teyla starts the episode in her workout gear talking to a scientist that she was helping with the stick fighting. They're on their way to lunch when Teyla turns back to retrieve something form the gym. On her way down the hall, there is a huge explosion behind her.

Flashback to three hours earlier where some guy is hitting on Elizabeth trying to get her to go to lunch. Elizabeth agrees, and then goes to explain to Teyla why she can't make the lunch date they had previously arranged.
After lunch, the Doctor kisses Weir and she stands up, upset that she let is get that far. They're interrupted by the explosion at that point.

Flash to next storyline..

John is going to teach Ronon and Teyla how to play golf. Teyla begs off, leaving Ronon to play John's "sport." John hits a couple of balls into the ocean, Ronon raises an eyebrow and hits a ball using a golf club one-handed. Ronon tells John he sould try a real sport, so they flash to a scene of the two of them in the gym with Ronon beating the crap out of Sheppard. Sheppard whines and they flash again to the two of them in Shep's quarters hanging out drinking beer and listening to tunes. At this point, Shep asks Ronon is he's seeing anyone, and if he left anyone behind on Sateda. Ronon says yes, and then turns the same questions on Sheppard. Sheppard says he was married once and he wasn't very good at it, and say that there's no one on Atlantis that he thinks of that way. Ronon says he thought Shep and Teyla would always hook up, which makes John laugh...then they're interrupted by the explosion.

Flashback to 14 hours earlier when Rodney is in his bathrobe in the infirmary bellowing at two newbie scientists for turning on a new ancient device which exposed them to radiation (very funny scene). Apparently they're going to live, so he let's them go.

Rodney doesn't want to go on the fishing trip to the mainland that he and Beckett had planned, so he goes to Katie Brown looking for an excuse not to listen to "the incredibly boring things that Carson would talk about all day." He ends up ditching Carson in favor of the girl..here there's a cute scene between Katie and Rodney in the botony lab while they babysit rare ferns. Lot's of jumbled Rodney speak.

.at which point Carson searches for a replacement fishing buddy. John and Ronon decline. Zelenka is too busy kicking everyone's butt at Chess (and winning a massage, and an anime DVD collection among other things), and Lorne is apparently and artist and he's too busy painting the Atlantis tower. When he can't find a fishing partner, Beckett returns to his infirmary and relieves his coworker of her shift when she complains of a migraine.
Then the explosion interrupts.

At this point we find out that the radiation that the newbie scientists were exposed to actually formed explosive tumors behind their lungs, and it was Teyla's sparring partner that blew up in the hallway. This leaves the other scientist with a tumor that will blow if they don't find him. Teyla was injured in the first blast, and Sheppard is deeply concerned for her safety, which hints that his earlier laugh at Ronon may have been a cover (if you ship that way).

Beckett is operating on him. Beckett won't leave. In the end, even after extracting the tumor is successfully extracted, it blows up and kills Beckett in the process.
There is a funeral scene where everyone is dressed in their best, and Rodney, Sheppard, Zelenka and Ronon, as well as two others serve has palpbearers to get the coffin back through the stargate to Earth.

The last scene is of Rodney and Ghost!Carson on one of the piers looking out at the ocean. Carson tries to tell Rodney that his death wasn't his fault, but Rodney doesn't look convinced. This scene was very sad. In the end, Carson blinks out and Rodney is alone.

nonniemous
January 16th, 2007, 01:10 AM
What a CHEAP shot. The episode was filler fluff--oh, and by the way, we KILLED CARSON! OMG!!! WOES!!! LOOKIT everyone crying!!! Look at Rodney emote!!! SHEP almost CRIED!!!! OMG!!! WOES!!!! There was no plot, nothing going on, no building tension. And they left TEN minutes at the end for the poor, sad woebegone faces of the remaining cast.

Radioactive Tumors??? My gods, couldn't you come up with anything better than that?

How stupid and pointless can you get? Actually, pretty stupid and pointless, as this episode proves.



I am furious that they not only killed Carson, they wrote such an absolutely sh***y send off for him. DH and JF hinted at it, but man alive, was that a pointless, POINTLESS episode--and an absolute travesty and a waste. All it was was an excuse to yank the fans around and see how many they could make cry.

Heroes, Redux. Nothing original about this one and just as stupid and pointless as Janet's death was--maybe moresoe, because we didn't even get a Fluffy patriotic video out of it.

1/10

coolove
January 16th, 2007, 01:15 AM
Wow. This is probably one of the best episodes of Atlantis I have seen in a long time. Mike Branton (sp?) is completely droolworthy. I would love to see more of him. I also liked Weir in this episode and I'm not an Elizabeth fan at all. They were cute together. Elizabeth acting insecure about seeing anyone who worked for her was adorable. The other vignettes were just as entertaining to watch. This is the Atlantis that I enjoy watching.

xfkirsten
January 16th, 2007, 01:41 AM
Wow. Just wow. This episode blew me away. Mike is a HOTTIE, and must return. And John finally wearing dress blues? YUM.

I'll copy here what I said in my LJ report:

That episode blew me away for so many reasons - some wonderfully humorous scenes, balanced out by the terrible sadness in the end. I'm SO sad to see Carson going... although that ending scene was very vague, considering the possibility of ascension. But I think that the funeral scene and the goodbye between Carson and Rodney were SO beautifully done. Incredibly touching - it didn't feel at all trite or hurried.

On a ship front, this episode was chock full of it. I'll say it: I'm a Elizabeth/Mike shipper. I thought they were absolutely adorable together. Mike is adorkable, and Lizzie looked like she was about to melt into a puddle of blushing goo around him. :P So now I'm left wondering... will they stay together? He was pretty good at talking her into things. ;) Rodney/Katie... SO sweet! I love how they babysat her plants together, and how they had a chance to talk through issues, and for Rodney to admit that he likes her so much, and to be honest and open with her. And, yes, I will say it - I am a Sheppard/Weir fan, but the Shep/Teyla stuff was VERY well done. They were cute and flirty and caring - it didn't feel forced at ALL. If it were written that well all the time, I could totally go along with it.

And friendships in general were developed - some great girly scenes between Elizabeth and Teyla (Teyla was SO pushing for Liz to go out on that not-a-date ;)), cute teasing between Elizabeth and Carson ("You smell nice, too!" "Shut uuuup!" :D) some nice bonding between Shep and Ronon, and of course, the Rodney/Carson interaction that just made the ending so powerful. It felt like Rodney's losing Carson so suddenly really carried a message - don't put off the time you could be spending with the people you care about, because you never know what might happen.

Just so much character development all around - learning that Lorne is a painter, that Zelenka kicks everyone's ass at chess and collects the spoils, that Dr. Biro is just... weird. :P I loved it!

All in all, an absolutely fantastic episode, ranking up there among the best.

Vicky
January 16th, 2007, 01:42 AM
Such a great ep IMO but such a sad one too.

Can't really say more right now...

But really, that's the kind of eps I'd like to see more often!

sgeureka
January 16th, 2007, 01:53 AM
Okay, I'm posting before I've read all the other posts. I hope I'm not dropping a brick, but here it goes...

I feel so sorry for Beckett's mom.

And that's all the negativity I feel about this episode. I don't want to sound too insensitive, but what a great way/episode to go. (Imagine Beckett leaving in the way Kolya had to go *horrible* :mckay: ). Almost all the spoilers I've heard turned out to be true, even the coffin with the Scottish flag. All in all very well done, even the McKay/Becket post-death moment, which could have been corny, but it wasn't. The episode would have felt a little "empty" if that moment hadn't taken place IMO.

More good moments that I would mention even if Beckett hadn't been killed:
- Teyla having a crush on someone (*who?*) but too afraid/PC to ask him
- The Weir/Mike scenes which I totally bought. I usually feel that love-for-one-episode arcs are terrible/forced. But this one was pretty in character (IMO). Mike *was* very charming.
- Weir asking Teyla for a way out. *chicken* :)
- Ronon's way of playing golf and beating Sheppard in the grab-the-flag-on-Sheppard's-*ss game.
- McKay out of the bed. In hindsight, pretty funny scene that led to catastrophe.
- McKay and Katie Brown. If McKay ever has a real relationship, that's the way it would go I guess. Very believable.
- Lorne painting. I wouldn't have guessed.
- Sheppard in his AF uniform. That's the first time we've seen him in it, right? Looked good.

Only question that didn't really make sense to me (but doesn't need answering): They have a bagpipe, but they don't have gym shoes? Either some time has passed, or someone is really into doodling.

sgeureka
January 16th, 2007, 02:10 AM
So, I've read through this thread (wow, is it calm here or what?) and I'd add this.

Firstly, I forgot about Zelenka and how he won Dr. Mallozzi's anime DVD collection in chess. Great evil reference there, Mr. Gero! http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g36/sgeureka/smilies/totlach.gif


What's all the Shep's married deal about? How long and is he what divorced, widower (sp?)?No further mention of it.

(Ronon and Sheppard are talking about women, and how Ronon is still longing for his wife)
Ronon: What about you?
Sheppard: What about me?
Ronan: When are you going to get married?
Sheppard: Ha, already done that. [I was] not very good at it.
(They continue to talk, and Ronon says he thought Teyla and Sheppard would make a cute couple. Sheppard thinks for a sec, then the explosion happens.)

Willow'sCat
January 16th, 2007, 02:14 AM
Well I am *sigh* I dont' know! I knew this would be a hard episode for me to watch for so many reasons and it was very hard to watch.

OK so I am a bit antsy right now, I am going with the old Pro's and Con's line:

Pro:
McKay written as if he is a person instead of a caricature. ;)
Sheppard actually talking *unfortunately for this slash gal not to McKay* Yes he was married, it apparently didn't work out. NO KIDS *apparently*
Sheppard IN HIS FREAKING DRESS BLUES!!!! :sheppard: *sigh* That was hot even if it was meant to be sad.

Teyla laughing, she needs to laugh more, Teyla has a huge crush on Sheppard *well there you go* ;) He may have a similar thang for her *I see Martin Gero means ship when he says ship* ;)

Ronon was funny, Jason needs to be used more like this.

Weir, OK not my fave character but I did like her coyness she seemed almost human. *go figure*

Lorne, he paints!

Zelenka just looked adorable.

Carson *sniff* this is why I loved Carson in season one, he went far beyond his moral/ethical medical requirements. YES I did cry. Paul was great and the end with McKay "seeing Carson" was wonderful... *hugs the McBeck slashers* :(

Cons... you knew they would be there;

I hate it when shows do this, nothing is said about serious, possibly life altering events in characters lives then ALL IN ONE EPISODE BAM! Things are revealed...not least Sheppard being married, McKay still seeing Katie WTF! Teyla crushing on Sheppard, well OK blind freddy could see that one. Weir has these odd personal rules (she does know there are probably not a lot of single bars in the PG right? ;) )

Why did they have to use so little of Carson in season 3 only to use him so well in this episode? That above all annoys me.... What a waste! :cool: :rolleyes:

I will have to re-watch this as the tears did get in the way... :o and I had to keep stopping, so the flow was a little out of whack, but it is right up there in some ways with M&MM as the most poignant episode of SGA to date *IMHO*

Martin Gero 9/10 Sunday 9/10

I have to take away one as Katie and Rodney don't belong together *shudders*

OH frak you put Sheppard in DRESS BLUES... I give you the one back. :D

10/10 :p :D

Red Phoniex
January 16th, 2007, 02:19 AM
Only question that didn't really make sense to me (but doesn't need answering): They have a bagpipe, but they don't have gym shoes? Either some time has passed, or someone is really into doodling.

Maybe that was someones personal item to bring or someone put a special request to send one though (earth has a ZPM now remember so it would only take a moment to get it to SGC and send one)




But really, that's the kind of eps I'd like to see more often!


NOT ME! I hate crying at the best of times. This was horrible. How could they do it. It was beautiful and very well done but i got into stargate to escape the real world! I don't want to be reminded that people i care about die. The ending with Rodney, God, i love Rodney and this made me see a whole new side of him that is rarely shown. I cried for him more than anyone else. David Hewlett did a fantastic job.

On a plus, love Lorne painting, would have never seen that coming. On the Sheppard note, IMO it was properly a teenage crush that got out of hand and the way he said he was no good at it makes me think that he neglicated her for the militily or something. Him in dress blues and Lorne!!!! *drooling*

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 02:22 AM
Noooo! Beckett :( :( :( :( :(

shelsfc
January 16th, 2007, 02:22 AM
I haven't seen the ep yet, but...it sounds kinda stupid. I mean, I was hoping it would be a really fantastic ep to make up a little (very little) bit for killing off Carson. But it sounds like a really weak story...explosive tumors? Ghost Carson? A completely pointless death. And so much for all their claims that he'll be back. Being blown up is hard to recover from.
Please please please tell me it's a lot better on screen than it sounds!









Oh, and Shep was married??? That I did not see coming.

watcher652
January 16th, 2007, 03:09 AM
Here's what happened. First draft. I'm not sure of names of guest cast members. I'm sorry that it isn't cleaner. Carson deserves better.

In spoiler tags for length.


Teyla is walking thru the halls of Atlantis. She is talking to someone female. They are making small talk. They both have bags over their shoulders. The other person is trying to convince Teyla to say something to someone.
She: Heís not going to make the first move.
Teyla: We shall see.
She: Look, you know him better than me.
Teyla: I should hope so.
She: I wouldnít be surprise if heís oblivious to the whole situation

Teyla changes the subject. When was the last time so many people had the day off? She: Itís all Heightmeyer doing. Sheís forcing a mandatory day of rest for everyone. Teyla says Athosians rest every 4 nights.

She: Want to have lunch?

Teyla realize she forgot something at the gym. Teyla: You go ahead, Iíll be right back. She walks away.

A huge explosion happens with a large fireball. Screams and alarms. Debris hits Teyla from behind. She ties to get up but sheís hurt badly. She passes out.

3 hours earlier

Hot science guy talking to Elizabeth in her office. Invites her to lunch.

Elizabeth : I make it a point not to have relationships with people works for her.

Hot Science Guy: No, itís just lunch. Guy continues to flirt.

Elizabeth: I still have an hour of work.

Hot Science Guy: See you in an hour.

Elizabeth goes to Teylaís room. Teyla: Youíre early. Elizabeth has lunch with Hot Science Guy Mike. Teyla has Dr. Houston to practice fight sticks with. Go have lunch, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth meets Carson in the hall. Sheís out of uniform. Carson has on a fishing vest. Carson is going fishing with Rodney on the mainland. Asks Elizabeth if she has a hot date? I was just joking but I see itís true. Elizabeth walks away. Carson calls to her: You smell good, too. Elizabeth: Shut up.

Mess hall. Elizabeth and Mike having lunch. Discussing Harry met Sally vs Annie Hall. Mike: Men and women canít be friends? Elizabeth: I never said that. Where does that leave Mike? If this is all I get for lunch Iíll stretch it out.

Mike takes Elizabeth to balcony. Elizabeth: Itís really is beautiful here. Mike continues to flirt. He kisses her. Elizabeth: I canít do this.

Call from control room. Elizabeth leaves.

Canadian tech guy: Explosion at the base of the tower near gym. Three dead. About a dozen or so that are severely injured. Elizabeth: Equipment malfunction? Tech guy: Review of logs continuing but pretty sure it wasnít. Elizabeth: So it could have been a bomb?

5 hours earlier.

Teyla crosses paths with John and Ronon in the hall. John is dressed in civvies and is carrying a golf club. Teyla forgot about John teaching Ronon and her about golf. She has plans for lunch with Elizabeth. John: You still got time. Teyla: I'm behind on my mission reports.. John: that's ok Elizabeth needs some time off. Ronon: You know, John, I'm behind my mission reports, too. John: Nice try. It's going to be fun. Ronon: Fun? Uh huh.

Driving range. John practicing. Somebody else at other station hitting balls too. Ronon says is that it? John describes golf. Heís been playing since he was six. Other guy is done. Ronon takes his place. Ronon knocks the ball one handed to kingdom come. John: Itís not about distance it's about accuracy. Ronon: Pick a spot, Iíll hit it there. Carson comes in. Other guy starts to complain. Carson asks to please see Dr Cole. Itís Carsonís first day off in a month. Carson wants to know if anyone wants to go fishing. No. Carson says fishing is the sport of kings. John says to Carson: Youíre Scottish. Golf is your game. Carson: Not my thing. Brags about the future catch. Leaves.

Ronon: Time for a real sport. Leaves driving range. John takes a swing one handed. Follows Ronon.

Gym. John: Grab the other guyís flag. Thatís it? Flags tucked in the back of their pants. Stick in hand. Ronon whacks John, steals flag. Now round 2: one handed to increase difficulty. Whacks John in the stomach, steals flag. Round 3: one hand, one leg. Head butts John. John ends up on the floor. John says: Got an idea.

Johnís room. John: This is my idea of a day off. Eat some junk food, listen to some tunes. How long have youíve been here Ronan, a year? Ronon: Year and a half. John: Hang out with anyone besides me or Teyla?. Dating? Ronon: No not ready yet. John: Did you leave somebody behind? Wife? Ronon: Close enough. John: Sorry. Ronon: What about you? When are you getting married? John: Already done that. Not very good at it. There really isnít anyone hereÖ Ronon: I though you and TeylaÖ John: Really?

Muffled sound of explosion.

Hallway outside gym. Carson is doing triage. Teyla is brought out on a stretcher. Carson goes with her. John: Is she going to be all right, Carson?Carson doesnít answer.

John and Ronon see Radek. He's removing some oxygen gear from his mouth. John: What the hell happened here, Radek? Radek: There was an explosion. What took you so long? John: Transporters out. There are a lot of stairs. Radek: McKay is in the lab investigating. No danger tower falling done. But there's, however, something very odd. Eyewitnesses say it appears that Dr. Houston just blew up. Ronon: Is that even possible? Radek: I know, but according to the few witnesses, she was just standing in the middle of the hall here and just exploded. John: Suicide bomb? Radek: No. I've scanned with my eqipment and there isn't even the slightest trace of explosive residue.

watcher652
January 16th, 2007, 03:10 AM
Second half.



14 hours earlier

Rodney in infirmary wearing a robe. Rodney scolding 2 junior scientists that we now know are Dr Houston and Dr Watson. They were sent on a routine cataloging assignment but they activated an alien device. Dr Houston (female scientist): But you did that. Rodney: I can fix it, you canít. My 4 year old niece is smarter than you. You need to be more careful. Carson: Rodney. Rodney calms down. Ok, ok. Take tomorrow off. Dr. Houston: We were. Itís the mandatory rest day. Rodney looks at Carson. Carson mimes fishing. Rodney turns away mumbles: Oh great.

Door of botany lab. Rodney goes in. Calls for Katie. Katie: I have to monitor these ferns. Could have the cure to leukemia. Rodney: I need an excuse to break those fishing plans with Carson. I canít conceive of a more tortuous, unappealing way to spend time. Katie: Why did you agree? Rodney: It was a month ago. I thought something would come up so I wouldnít have to go. But nothing did. Can take you out to lunch? Kaite: No I have to stay with the ferns. Rodney: Iíll get lunch and bring it back here. Katie: You want to baby sit ferns with me? Rodney: Yes, as opposed to fishing with Carson.

Mess. Rodney has two lunches. Sees Elizabeth and Hot Science Guy at table. Hmm. Carson comes in. Carson: Ah, great minds think alike. I've come for snacks, too. Rodney has long story about day off plans. Rodney: We spend so little time together I don't know if we're even a couple. I told Katie Iíd spend the day with her. Carson: All right Rodney. Tell Katie I said hello. Carson walks out with a sandwich, an orange and a bottle of water.

Botany lab. Katie: Didnít think we had a chance. Cadman made you kiss me. Then you avoided me for months. I understand how you didnít want to think about it. But youíve really made an effort to make time for me and itís been lovely. Rodney: Saw my little sister saw happy. So I was thinking Iíd like to get married. Rodney fumbles back and forth with Katie. Oh not to you. But I didnít mean it like that. I mean... Katie: I like you a lot. Rodney: I know and to be honest I find that baffling. When you get to know the real meÖ Katie: I know you. Thereís not a lot of subtext with you. Rodney: Sorry I ignored you. The two lean in...

Muffled sound of an explosion. Rodney runs off.

Back to Sheppard and Ronon with Radek at gym wall.

Rodney: Drs Houston and Watson were exposed to odd radiation. Carson examined them. They had a clean bill of health. So we thought we'd weíll figure out the device later. Big Mistake. Itís a weapon to battle the Wraith. Creates explosive tumors. Medical technobabble.

Whereís Dr. Watson? In the infirmary, one of the people caught in the explosion caused by Dr Houston.

2 hours earlier

Mess. Back to Carson and Rodney. Rodney brushing Carson off.

Carson walks down hallway lined with dining tables. People are playing chess. Radek is at a table playing chess with someone. Carson: Radek, want to go fishing? Radek: I would but today weíre playing for things. Lists things already won. Can we go next week? Carson: OK.

Balcony. Carson finds Lorne on balcony painting. Carson: Would you like to go fishing? Lorne: Maybe if you asked earlier, but I'm in the middle of this painting. Carson: That's ok.

Some general purpose room. Carson sees Biro. Sheís quite, um enthusiastic in her greeting. Carson doesnít ask her to go fishing.

Infirmary. Doctor Cole at some device. Sheís on call. Carson: Fishing trip is a bust, Iím going to catch up with paper work. Whatís wrong with you? Cole: Migraine. Took something but still have it. Carson: You should have called me. Cole: That fishing trip was all you were talking abut for 2 weeks. Carson: It's done with now. Go rest.

Later. Carson is wrapping a womanís foot. Carson: Donít play volleyball in sandals.

Muffled sound of explosion. Carson orders medical personnel. Runs out.

Gym. Carson accompanies Teyla on stretcher.

Infirmary: Carson operating on Teyla.

Science lab: Rodney calls for Dr. Watson.

Infirmary. Dr. Watson is on operating table.

Carson sends his assistant to tell him Watson's on the operating table.

Rodney: Radiation caused explosive tumor. Get everyone out. Carson: He canít move. Rodney: He doesnít have to move you do. Carson sends everyone out but other doctor stays. Carson: We have a tumor to remove.

Science lab. John: Carson used his authorization code to seal off floor. Carson refuses to leave his patient. Rodney: You can't seriously be considering operating on this guy. Arson: Exactly how much time do you think we have? Rodney: There's no way of knowing. Houston was infected at the same time and her tumor already exploded. Carson: No time to waste, then. Rodney: Look, this all really brave and all... John: What if there's strutural damage? What if the tower comes down with everyone in it? Carson: Sending him to the other side of the city is tantamount to murder. Rodney: The man is already dead. Carson: Like hell he is. John: I canít order you to stand down. Carson: Thatís right you canít. Have your men standing by I'll open access to the floor once I've extracted the tumor.

Elizabeth: How long has he been at it. John: About 10 minutes. We have an emergency crew standing by. Either way we're covered. Elizabeth: Canít you bypass his access code? Rodney: Itíll take at least a half hour. Elizabeth: This is crazy.

Infirmary: Carson has extracted the tumor. Puts it in carefully in a container. Carson: Colonel Sheppard: I've extracted the tumor. He enters his access code and opens door. John: He's on his way Just sit tight. Carson: Tell him I'll meet him half way. The sooner I get this out of my sight the better. Carson tells other doctor to finish up with Dr. Watson. He takes container. Walks slowly out of infirmary. Hazmat guy is hauling a containment unit. Carson gives unit to man. Turns and walks away.

Explosion happens. A fireball engulfs Carson from behind.

Carsonís room. Rodney is in a shirt and tie. Going thru Carsonís things. Picks of photo of himself and Carson in that field on the day Rodney got Cadman downloaded into his head. (Cadman, who was escorting them, must have taken it)

Ronon comes in. Are you ok?

Rodney: Not really.

Ronon: Need help?

Rodney: No. He didnít have a lot of stuff here.

Ronon: You sending all back home to his family?

Rodney: Yeah. I mean we will. They donít know yet. Weíll send his body back to earth and Iím going to tell his mother.

Rodney: I should have just gone fishing with him.

Ronon: Don't.

Rodney: If I had just gone fishing, if I had checked the machine, if I hadnít sent two junior scientists to catalog the labÖ

Ronon: Rodney, whatís done is done.

Rodney: I know and thatís whatís killing me.

Infirmary: Teyla is in bed. John comes in wearing his dress blues. Teyla wants to go to the memorial. John: Iíll get a wheel chair. Teyla: No I want to stand, as a testament to him. Teyla: How are you? John: It hasnít hit me yet. Iím not looking forward to when it does. Teyla: I feel a great sadness. I feel... Sheís has no other words. Teyla: A great sadness.

John helps Teyla up and they leave the infirmary.

Gateroom. The Gateroom is filled with people. There is a coffin draped in the Scottish flag is in the center of the room. Elizabeth steps up to the side of the coffin.

Elizabeth: We say goodbye to a lot of friends today. Our mission is a dangerous one. We lose people. A fact we are all painfully aware of. But Carson wasÖ I canít remember anyone coming to me with a complaint against him. Ever. He was a kind soul. He was a healer. And he will be very deeply missed. George Fabrica said: "Death comes to us all, but great achievements, they build a monument which shall endure until the sun grows cold.Ē Every single life Carson saved is a monument to him and that gives me great comfort.

Elizabeth looks up to the balcony and piper starts to play the bagpipes. The Gate dials. We look at all the faces of those closest to Carson.

John, Lorne and Radek walk to one side of the coffin. Rodney, Dr Cole and Ronon are on the other side. Elizabeth steps beside Teyla. The procession walks slowly thru the open wormhole as the bagpipe fades.

Out on a platform on the edge of Atlantis. Itís sunset. We see Rodney standing by himself, at the edge of the platform looking out over the ocean towards the horizon.

Rodney is wearing his uniform. We see Carson walk up to stand beside Rodney. Carson is wearing a simple black shirt.

Carson: How did go back on earth?

Rodney: It was, um, it was awful. Your family was amazing, though

Carson: Aye, they are. Good turnout?

Rodney: Oh, packed the church.

Carson: Oh, thatís good to hear.

Rodney: Itís not going to be the same here without you.

Carson: Oh, youíre telling me.

Rodney: You know, the universe is a big place. Who knows, maybe weíll bump into each other again.

Carson: Aye. Who knows?

Rodney: You were the closest thing to a best friend that I ever had. Iím really, really, sorry. I should have justÖ

Carson: Hey. This isnít your fault.

Rodney: Youíre just telling me what you want me to hear.

Carson: Well, thatís what best friends do sometimes. And in this case, it also happens to be true. Take care of yourself, Rondey.

Rodney raises his hand.

Rodney: Goodbye, Carson.

The camera pulls back over the ocean. Carson fades from Rodneyís side. The view continues to pull back until we see all of Atlantis and Rodney is no longer visible on the platform.

Merlin7
January 16th, 2007, 03:27 AM
Not sure how I really feel about the ep. Knew carson was gonna die in this one, so that wasn't a shock. And after Teyla blew up and what happened, it was obvious how Carson was going to die. At least to me.

It was nice seeing everyone on their day off and learning more about them. Shep being married once was a surprise. Nice that Lorne paints. Nicely handled with Elizabeth and Mike. I would feel the same in her place. What she might want to indulge in and what she feels she can indulge in aren't the same thing. Not in her position.

The golf thing was funny.

Well done ep. Probably won't watch again though.

It's out of sorts for what happened, but I really want a regular SGA ep and some Shep whump. Real whump.

Although seeing his reaction to everything was beautiful angst and Joe did a fabulous job.

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 04:07 AM
For all the 'wonderful' yet totally cliched character moments in this episode, it wasn't worth loosing one of the show's best characters.

:mad:

FoolishPleasure
January 16th, 2007, 04:23 AM
I don't have a prob with Shep being married, he is 40 after all, I would have expected it. However, on SG1, Jack was married a long time and his breakup was very difficult and revolved around the death of his son. In Sheppard's case, his marriage failure probably had something to do with another woman . . .or two. . .or three, going by his history. Why in the world would Teyla want him? The guy is a player, TPTB told us that last year. Besides, I thought all along that TPTB were hinting at Teyla/Ronon. I kinda like that one. *shrugs* Who knows what "they" are thinking anymore.

They really "off'd" Carson. I still can't believe they really did that to the guy. The one character who really had heart, and who I felt truly cared for everyone. *shakes head in disbelief*

crompton20
January 16th, 2007, 04:23 AM
noooooooooo , are we supposed to assume from the ghost scene then that he has ascended in some way

sgeureka
January 16th, 2007, 04:34 AM
For all the 'wonderful' yet totally cliched character moments in this episode, it wasn't worth loosing one of the show's best characters.

:mad:Try to see it from another perspective. Clearly TPTB wanted to get rid of Beckett for whatever reason (which unfortunately meant firing McGillion). Beckett's death was not a result of this story, but (I guess) the story was a result of TPTB's casting decision.

So, as a PTB, would you want to write a really good story to go along with the death/disappearance, or just an indifferent episode with yeah-whatever? :o

Willow'sCat
January 16th, 2007, 04:36 AM
I don't see it as a "Ghost" scene I see it as McKay reflecting his own wish to have had that moment with Carson while he was still alive, but on TV you can't easily show that without the character "seeing" the dead guy.

And why would Carson ascend? No that really would make no sense I mean even Daniel had to go on *and on* about all those dam candles and flames and fires and whatever before he went all glowy on us. :D

Yeah I suppose that last moment was cliche sueKay but I really loved it. ;)

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 04:37 AM
I'd rather his death had had some meaning.

If he'd died in vengeance, saving people from Michael...THAT would have been a little better.

I mean c'mon...exploding tumours! give me a break!

leelakin
January 16th, 2007, 04:38 AM
Okay, to be straight out:

I DISLIKED this. Heavily.

I mean, I knew Carson would die before it aired, but it was in such a USELESS way, I just couldn't believe it. (Lone Gunmen on the X-Files, anyone?)

The first half of the episode felt like "SGA: The High School Years" for me, at least for the women? Elizabeth and that guy, supposedly "working" with her, even though we've never seen him before? Yeah, whatever.
Rodney and Katie... also didn't interest me one bit. The only funny part about it was him falling over his own words when talking about marriage.

As for the "plot"... what on...? Explosive tumours? O rly? They explained that to us in like 2 minutes, then everyone just exploded. That mysterious radiation (which we didn't really get any info about) was just a very lame plot device, nothing more.
Carson going back for that tumour was unnecessary and forced. He and the other doctor lady could've just LEFT THE ROOM and let the *protected* guys with the detonation container bag the thing. But no, we HAVE to let him die, don't we? :(

The ending scene was KITSCHY. I love the Rodney/Carson dynamic, it's (sorry, WAS) one of my favourite parts of the show, but that was just the uber-clichť, I could almost speak along. I cried in the end, but not because of the schmaltzy talking, but because I realized we've lost the best character ever to be on Atlantis.

This is so pitiful, offing a character like that. Yes, I am angry.

The dramatic effect you were pining for with this will NEVER EVER weigh up the lack of Carson through out the rest of the show.

beale947
January 16th, 2007, 04:47 AM
Im not one for judging an episode before seeing it, but Jeeze. It sounds awful. Exploding Tumors what the hell! If you were going to kill off one of the best charaters, you do it with style. Not with a ball of exploding cells. Sounds like a perfect waste of a charater. Its gonna be hard to watch Atlantis now, knowing thats coming. :mad:

Linzi
January 16th, 2007, 04:48 AM
Okay, before I start. I DIDN'T WANT CARSON TO DIE HERE!!!! I wanted him to go missing in another episode so there was a chance he'd be able to come back. I even had a good theory for it happening in Vengeance. So, the original spoilers all those months ago were correct. Damn it!!! Though, to those who were correct...you were right, I was wrong, so good on you, but damn it all! I suppose I just wanted to be in denial....
So, ok, I'm reviewing this forgetting that I didn't want Carson to die, and accepting that it happened.
I LOVED SUNDAY! Well done to Martin Gero for giving me a tragic, sad and sniffworthy episode, with good character bits.
The one negative part in the episode for me was that Carson died when he was moving the tumour bomb. He should've just taken his patient and nurse and left once the surgery was over. Why oh why did he move the bomb?
That over and done with, I confess I cried. Buckets, but silently, so I didn't embarrass myself too much...
I loved the friendship stuff.
Ronon and Sheppard's scenes were fantastic. The golf - brilliant. The capture the flag? Hysterical. Boy did Shep get his ass kicked! The beer drinking was wonderful. Ronon's not ready to move on? I liked that, because it shows how intensely loyal he was to his girlfriend. Sheppard was married? No surprise here. How could a man like that not have had a serious relationship in his life with looks and charisma like that? So, I like it. Good hint at backstory, and hopefully at sometime it'll be expanded upon. So, thumbs up from me. As for the supposed ship hints? Oh hell if I know whether it was or wasn't! I give up! :lol:
Rodney and Katie's bits were sweet and cringeworthy too. However, I think Katie is far too much of a mouse to be with McKay!!!! I laughed at the marriage bit!
The Weir romantic stuff was a little strange for me. Mike was a lovely looking bloke, but a little pushy for my likings. He made Weir look a little uncomfortable and unsure, which I didn't like to see. I'd have liked her to be more okay with it, though I thought it was right that she'd have doubts about it being ok. If that makes sense? What I mean is, I don't like men who are very forward and have to persuade a woman to go out. Maybe that's just me though, and maybe Weir needed that push. On a trivial note, I loved Weir's top, what a lovely colour!!!! (Sorry, but I did like it!)
Lorne paints? For some inexplicable reason that made me chuckle!
I felt so sad that everyone blew off Carson. Rodney let his friend down, and it really upset me, and now poor Rodney will feel awful for ever!!! I didn't like that one bit - too sad and angsty! Well I did like it, but it was so sad.
Poor Teyla got injured again! She has been very unlucky in season 3, :lol:
Loved the friendship stuff between her and Sheppard in the infirmary. Very sad, and quite realistic. Sometimes these things don't hit you immediately.
The funeral was just heartbreaking. I sniffed all the way through. And when they carried the coffin through the 'gate....sigh, too sad.
The final scene was heartbreaking, and it took all my willpower not to sob!
Great ending. The only slight reservation I had, was that I'm not sure I ever got the impression that Carson and Rodney were best friends. But, I suppose Carson wasn't closer to anyone else.
A fantastic episode. Wonderful performances, wonderful writing, great character insights, very, very sad, and a 10/10 from me.
On a trivial note - Did anyone else notice Sheppard was called John by Ronon? That took me by surprise. It was nice though.

Linzi
January 16th, 2007, 04:49 AM
I don't see it as a "Ghost" scene I see it as McKay reflecting his own wish to have had that moment with Carson while he was still alive, but on TV you can't easily show that without the character "seeing" the dead guy.

And why would Carson ascend? No that really would make no sense I mean even Daniel had to go on *and on* about all those dam candles and flames and fires and whatever before he went all glowy on us. :D

Yeah I suppose that last moment was cliche sueKay but I really loved it. ;)
Er, I agree? :lol:

Fifer
January 16th, 2007, 04:52 AM
Explosive tumors? Honest to god what the hell is that about? Apart from that minor blip by all accounts it seems like a great episode but what a waste of a great character.

Hard to imagine a way back for him. Bloody shame.

Arctic Penguin
January 16th, 2007, 04:55 AM
I really liked this episode. It had so many funny moments. I loved McKay and Katie brown scenes it was very sweet poor Rodney stumbling over his words. Lorne painting I would never have guessed at. It was great we got to see little character moments and theirs hobbies outside work. I wasnít surprised that Sheppard had been married he is meant to be 40ish.
Poor Carson:( . the end scene with Rodney I cant decide if it was Rodney trying to say goodbye or if Carson had ascended he did save both the scientist and a nurse. So maybe that is an act that could lead to ascension.
I think Gero did a great job in balancing the comedy and drama.

beale947
January 16th, 2007, 04:58 AM
Explosive tumors? Honest to god what the hell is that about? Apart from that minor blip by all accounts it seems like a great episode but what a waste of a great character.

Hard to imagine a way back for him. Bloody shame.

If I was McGillion. I'd be pretty dam annoyed with that death. They could have him die, very heroically involving michael but noooo.

Vicky
January 16th, 2007, 05:05 AM
NOT ME! I hate crying at the best of times. This was horrible. How could they do it. It was beautiful and very well done but i got into stargate to escape the real world! I don't want to be reminded that people i care about die. The ending with Rodney, God, i love Rodney and this made me see a whole new side of him that is rarely shown. I cried for him more than anyone else. David Hewlett did a fantastic job.

I wasn't meaning that. I was meaning the general idea of downtime ep, with the members of the expedition relaxed and no threat.


Oh and I hadn't said that before, but the way Carson died, well it made me think of a GA ep... *rollseyes*


My biggest concern now is what they do with Elizabeth, but I guess the sig says it all

So I am but you knew that already.

rarocks24
January 16th, 2007, 05:09 AM
If I was McGillion. I'd be pretty dam annoyed with that death. They could have him die, very heroically involving michael but noooo.

We don't know what Carson's reaction was to that. This was coming for a long time. I first noted it in The Return, Pt 1 when McGillion was giving his speech to Rodney about never seeing him again. I feel sad that Carson died. I would have rather him been taken off the expedition (with the possibility of coming back) due to ethical dilemmas, but to kill him with exploding tumors? Wow...that's pretty...then again, since when have they ever given doctors a sensible death? All they did was Frasier it up big time.

Vicky
January 16th, 2007, 05:12 AM
We don't know what Carson's reaction was to that. This was coming for a long time. I first noted it in The Return, Pt 1 when McGillion was giving his speech to Rodney about never seeing him again. I feel sad that Carson died. I would have rather him been taken off the expedition (with the possibility of coming back) due to ethical dilemmas, but to kill him with exploding tumors? Wow...that's pretty...then again, since when have they ever given doctors a sensible death? All they did was Frasier it up big time.

It seems that they like to kill doctors in Stargate, actually...

Well, they did say he was going to 'disappear', we only learn recently what they really meant by 'disappear'.

SapphireJewelledQueen
January 16th, 2007, 05:14 AM
I loved this episode. Martin Gero writes the characters fantastically.

I didn't want Carson to die (really, who did?) and in such a... little way. An explosion? I'm not sure what else they could have done, but it just seemed so... ordindary.

My thoughts (x-posted from LJ) - Cut for length

-Carson is Love. That is all there is to it. I have to watch that again. I don't know what to say about him! I'm so going to miss him. He was such a nice and bright character.

- The Weir and Mike scenes were just so sweet! He is so sweet! I like how he kept interrupting her.

- Shep is married. What the?? When did this happen? Hope they explore that chapter of his background story soon because... Hot Damn that was a shock. Or would have been if I hadn't read spoilers teehee.

- I loved Teyla in this episode!! In the beginning and at the end. And her and Carson are just cute. They have a sweet chemistry that just permeates their friendship. I could have shipped them if Carson hadn't gone Boom.

- Scene with Teyla and Weir is Teyla's quarters. Now THAT is what I'm talking about! You could practically SEE the word 'GLEE' is Teyla's grin and the fact that Weir was so open about telling her was great. Shows a nice friendship between the two leaders.

- Ronon playing golf. FREAKING HILARIOUS. I *heart* Ronon so much. And he still hurts after loosing his wife! *sads*

- McKay in this episode is just Love as well. Him and are Katie are so adorkable! And the marriage bit was so damn funny.

- LORNE + PAINTING = LOVE!!!!

- The end was really touching. I had tears in my eyes when they started talking about being best friends. OMG Carson! *cries* Please tell me he has ascended. And I really hope they don't brush this under the carpet in next weeks episode. They can't just ignore what happened.

- The scene with Teyla, Ronon and John was funny! The slap on Ronon's arm when Teyla left cracked me up :D and when the scene first starts, look at Ronon in the background and it's like he's telling her to run LOL!!

A bit edited, but overall I REALLY enjoyed this episode. When's the next Gero ep?? :P

HyperCaz
January 16th, 2007, 05:21 AM
uhhh is it just me or did they steal the method of death from Grey's Anatomy lol...*needs to find something to be waspish about*

my thunk. *sobs* but god I loved him in action.

Is it bad that, despite my being a diehard shipper, TPTB offered some appealing ships? Liz/Mike!! :D He seemed like such a nice guy, really quite suited to her. *can't believe I'm saying this*

it felt like they tried to cram 2-3 seasons of character development into one episode...and I think they did a good job of it. apart from spontaneously combusting people, I didn't get the feel of much happening, which is probably why they were jumping all over the timeline.

No season 4 for me, but a very good episode. :)

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 05:21 AM
Y'know...now I know why some people really don't like shippers

the ammount of people going

ZOMG squee Lizzie had a date!!!!

When a character a FRIEND of Lizzie is DEAD

No bloody wonder Frasier fans were pissed at S/J shippers when the bounced for joy when Sam and Jack hugged in Heroes.

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 05:22 AM
FTR - I HATE Mike

Creepy, fuzzy and creepy

rarocks24
January 16th, 2007, 05:25 AM
FTR - I HATE Mike

Creepy, fuzzy and creepy

That's because Mike's really...Michael. ;)

HyperCaz
January 16th, 2007, 05:28 AM
That's because Mike's really...Michael. ;)

HAHAHAHA!!!! what if he really is a Wraith ;)

suekay, I am mightily upset and distraught over my thunk biting the dust when somebody spontaneously combusted (have they been reading my fanfic LOL), I just liked Liz/Mike moments...is that bad> :o

I just have to say - bagpipes. I love bagpipes. wooo!!! Although we didn't see a funeral for that woman who died...*shakes head* I'm just nitpicking! I'm cranky and miserable!!

lunarleviathan
January 16th, 2007, 05:31 AM
The way in which Carson died was pretty good in my opinion. He was brave, and did in fact succeed at passing the explosive tumour to the bomb disposal guy. To then have him die anyway made for a good episode in my opinion. It highlighted the situation on Atlantis better than ever before. With all the crazy stuff going on - people die.

The scenes after his death with Rodney collecting his things, the memorial service, and the ghost/dream scene, were all very emotional. Very good stuff, I felt genuinely sad while watching these scenes.

There's certainly no chance of the character returning as exactly the same. I'm sure it's not the last we've seen of him though.

sgeureka
January 16th, 2007, 05:36 AM
Re: explosive tumors

As strange as it might sound, there have been weirder things happening in Stargate shows:

- Metamorphosis: that dude exploded into water
- Cassandra once had a Naqada(sp?) bomb in her chest
- characters (e.g. O'Neill and Sheppard) turned old and back to "young" again
- Sheppard turned (almost) into a bug and back
- Michael turned from Wraith into human back into Wraith
- the whole Ancient gene therapy thing

I admit explosive tumors are a little out there, and I thought Oooookay when it came up, but it keeps with the style of the show.

TJuk
January 16th, 2007, 05:39 AM
I really dont know what to say. I am so shocked and saddened by this episode. A little piece of me hoped that it would at the very least be a really good send off for Carson, one final moment for him to shine though Paul was truely exceptional, he used ever last moment and made IT shine through his acting. David also was fantastic. But this was one last chance for him to have an episode of his own...

And we got this.

You didn't even give him the decency of something more then a minor plotline for the majority of the episode. In essense his storyline is almost a metaphor for the character, intentional no doubt. I bet someone thought they were being clever. Its like the writers, wax lyrical about how great he is, Gero himself even said he was "...easily the breakout star of season 1...". Yet he has been ignored, forgotten, almost over looked and pushed aside since the moment they promoted him. And just like his friends, finally lost to them.

Yes in some terms it was a very good, dramatic episode. There were some wonderful touching moments, you could see the hurt and shock bleeding through on screen from the cast. Yes there was some great dialogue. I will give them that. But moments in this episode were so....flippant and that makes this a bitter pill to swallow...a very BIG one. The 'bombs' weren't even original, turn people into bombs? Seen it dude, never heard of 'LiveWire' the movie with Pierce Brosnan?

His death was pointless. A waste. It meant nothing in the grand scheme of things to the storyline. There was no grand story arc. No 'disappearence'. And to be honest, very little meaning for the very episode except in specific scenes. It was almost like an evil after-thought to decide to kill him. Haha I bet the fans will hate this. Martin Gero I know you are reading this thread, can you at least give us the courtesy of explaining WHY?

One of the most truely unique, complex and compassionate characters in SCIFI nevermind Stargate has been thrown aware carelessly. All that promise, all that potential, all that building up fans hopes only to smash them as if they mean NOTHING.

I hope, that one day they come to understand what they have lost.

Vicky
January 16th, 2007, 05:42 AM
uhhh is it just me or did they steal the method of death from Grey's Anatomy lol...*needs to find something to be waspish about*

Nope, definitely not the only one. When it happens I was like "Hey that was in GA!"


No bloody wonder Frasier fans were pissed at S/J shippers when the bounced for joy when Sam and Jack hugged in Heroes.

You can't help people to be happy about some parts of the episode. Besides this scene, some other scenes are really squeeable. That doesn't prevent people from being sad.

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 05:44 AM
Nope...no they weren't

I actually liked the idea of McKay/Katie Brown ship but it was cringeworthy

The pushed forward Sheppard/Teyla ship, basically to try and get rid of Sheppard/Weir ship (yes they're getting ready to ditch Lizzie already)

The entire thing was...what's what word?

oh yeah...

a

CLICHE

FoolishPleasure
January 16th, 2007, 05:51 AM
But moments in this episode were so....flippant and that makes this a bitter pill to swallow...a very BIG one. The 'bombs' weren't even original, turn people into bombs? Seen it dude, never heard of 'LiveWire' the movie with Pierce Brosnan?

Also go back to SG1's season 1 episode, "Singularity" which revolved around trying to save a little girl who would explode if they operated on her. Obviously the SGA writers are still dusting off the old SG1 scripts for ideas. :rolleyes:

IF they wanted to dump Carson, at least let him go down dealing with Michael. Those two have "history" and that would have been a great confrontation.

Onward to the end of the season, where TPTB get to frak with another major character they don't know how to write for. ;)

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 05:53 AM
Well after reading Mr. Mallozzi's blog, and his outright slagging off of SGA fans (ill informed lemmings indeed) . I will not be watching anymore.

http://joesphmallozzi.blogspot.com

atlantis_babe34
January 16th, 2007, 05:53 AM
Frankly i don't care if it is a cliched episode.. it sounds awesome

leelakin
January 16th, 2007, 05:54 AM
uhhh is it just me or did they steal the method of death from Grey's Anatomy lol...*needs to find something to be waspish about*
Actually, not only that, but I thought the whole "who likes who" aspect was very Grey's Anatomy. o_O

Gaaah... I can't believe they didn't even want to use him for the Michael story arc. Talk about missed opportunities. (Talk about dumping the show down the drain, actually)


Well after reading Mr. Mallozzi's blog, and his outright slagging off of SGA fans (ill informed lemmings indeed) . I will not be watching anymore.

http://joesphmallozzi.blogspot.com
Yeah, I read that too. /: How very understanding of him.

Hey, I got a brilliant idea that would totally fit: How about we kill off either Shep or Rodney and replace him with Lucius? Or maybe both? That would just be awesome! And keep the show FRESH!

TJuk
January 16th, 2007, 06:00 AM
I also noted, the young doctor women, came out of the blue and she was a pallbearer? Amazing how she was a splitting image of Jewel. No prizes for guessing that paricular character will no doubt be reprised by Jewel, hence giving 'Dr Keller' a little backstory and credibility (I dont think so). She will no doubt turn up in the next ep or two....Carson....Carson who?

I am truely appalled.

nonniemous
January 16th, 2007, 06:05 AM
I also noted, the young doctor women, came out of the blue and she was a pallbearer? Amazing how she was a splitting image of Jewel. No prizes for guessing that paricular character will no doubt be reprised by Jewel, hence giving 'Dr Keller' a little backstory and credibility (I dont think so). She will no doubt turn up in the next ep or two....Carson....Carson who?

I am truely appalled.

No doubt we got all the "emotional resolution" we are going to get in the ten minutes worth of WOEs! faces at the funeral, and in the cliched final scene where Marty Stu McKay is let off the hook. Next week it's back to business as usual.

prion
January 16th, 2007, 06:16 AM
Wait... Shepperd has a son!? Or was that just to say that it's relatively unlike Jack? :p Don't scare me like that if it is!!!

No, no kids. Didn't mention any.


In one Star Trek Voyager episode, 'Deadlock' I think, the ship comes into contact with a 'parrallel' version with duplicates of all the crew. The 'real' Ensign Kim dies but the other version comes through (the parrallel ship is destroyed anyway) and stays with the 'real' crew, and it's never mentioned again.

I hope that made sense :) Basically like if Kawalski had stayed in our reality in one of the AU eps.

Well, if it were AU, then Beckett would have to be alive in each subsequent episode, unless the rest o fseason 3 onward is AU....



Oh god, I just finished watching it....and did I ever cry over the last scene with Carson and Rodney! Poor Rodney!

On the note of Sheppard being married, how much you want to bet that it was a shotgun wedding that happened in his early 20s when he was more of an idiot than he is now? I bet he sunk his whole heart into it, and his family turned their backs on him because they thought he'd knocked some innocent girl up, and in the end, he cheated on her (kirk) and the marriage fell apart....

There. That explanation makes me happy.

I could see Shep being married, young, before Afghanistan definitely and at that point in time, he was probably divorced. Since he said he wasn't good at it (marriage), I suspect his career took precedence and perhaps his 'leave no one behind stuff' was part of the reason for a divorce. I see tons of fanfic fodder in that one statement. Of course, the way Shep shrugs off disaster (to mourn it later - as he said Carson's death hadn't hit him yet and he wasn't looking forward to it), there could have been something tragic too (I watch too much TV). Could have had a kid, kid could have died (accident, or in birth, or something) and he wasn't there and the guilt just drove a wedge between wife and him and the marriage dissolved (any fanfic writers are free to run with that idea).

As for Carson. well, sure doens't pay to be a doctor in the SG universe. Same as HEROES. Beloved doctor snuffed. And they have a body. How the heck are they going to get out of that?? Propelled into an AU? Was a clone and wasn't really him? It was well written, sad, but like HEROES, the big question begs WHY?!?!?!?!

Agent_Dark
January 16th, 2007, 06:16 AM
I couldn't help but laugh at the VFX when the bomb went off and killed Beckett... Should I start clubbing baby seals or something? :S

The episode felt odd to me... It didn't really seem to have a point to it other than the death of Beckett. I felt Janet's death in Heroes was 'better' in that sense.
Sure all the little character bits are good, but it just seems weird to have an entire episode of character bits. If those same character bits are interspersed through a 'normal' episode it would be awesome, but I found myself almost getting bored at points with no plot-of-the-week to follow.

Also, exploding tumours? hahahaha.

ETA: And another thing - what happened to everyone else that died? There were at least 3 other dead and probably that bomb defusal dude too. Why didn't they get a send off? I think that funeral scene could have had more impact if it was Beckett's casket with the other dead too. I don't think it would have taken anything away from Beckett dying, and it wouldn't have made it all about Beckett dying.

dana
January 16th, 2007, 06:21 AM
Hey, I got a brilliant idea that would totally fit: How about we kill off either Shep or Rodney and replace him with Lucius? Or maybe both? That would just be awesome! And keep the show FRESH!

OMG yes! What a brilliant idea! I love Lucius. The show really needs some new faces. Hmmm....Now who else should we ditch? </sarcasm>

prion
January 16th, 2007, 06:22 AM
I couldn't help but laugh at the VFX when the bomb went off and killed Beckett... Should I start clubbing baby seals or something? :S

The episode felt odd to me... It didn't really seem to have a point to it other than the death of Beckett. I felt Janet's death in Heroes was 'better' in that sense.
Sure all the little character bits are good, but it just seems weird to have an entire episode of character bits. If those same character bits are interspersed through a 'normal' episode it would be awesome, but I found myself almost getting bored at points with no plot-of-the-week to follow.

Also, exploding tumours? hahahaha.

The SPX for the explosions was good but only to a degree. Fire scorches wall and I didn't see any (although did watch it VERY fast). I don't think Atlantis has scorch-proof walls.

Tumors can defnitely burst, but explode.... hmm.... stupid Ancients.

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 06:27 AM
What I don't understand?

Okay...so Teyla was badly hurt in the first explosion.

Yet Beckett was further away and got consumed in a fireball?!?

HyperCaz
January 16th, 2007, 06:31 AM
What I don't understand?

Okay...so Teyla was badly hurt in the first explosion.

Yet Beckett was further away and got consumed in a fireball?!?

uggh!! that has been bothering me as well!! Surely he would have been thrown ahead of the explosion?

sgeureka
January 16th, 2007, 06:33 AM
^The tumor had grown bigger than the first one (and therefore had more explosive power)?

shelsfc
January 16th, 2007, 06:38 AM
Well after reading Mr. Mallozzi's blog, and his outright slagging off of SGA fans (ill informed lemmings indeed) . I will not be watching anymore.

http://joesphmallozzi.blogspot.com


Thanks Joe. You have helped subside my sadness over Carson's death, by reminding me how much TPTB care about the fans of their show. Now I can be incredibly angry instead.

I posted a comment, but it has to be aproved by the blog owner first...

Loredana
January 16th, 2007, 06:52 AM
I admit I didn't read all posts about this episode... sorry if the subject was brought already, but why is Sunday considered still episode 314 when in The Ark Becket is still alive...

I see now that Sunday is really 317....

Cailliath
January 16th, 2007, 06:53 AM
^The tumor had grown bigger than the first one (and therefore had more explosive power)?

<sarcasm>Yeh that'll be it.</sarcasm> (not sarcasm directed at you though sgeureka, your explanation is very likely) In other words it's a shoddy way of getting rid of a fantastic character.

I know there's a fair amount of people who have enjoyed this episode and I can see why but to me, this episode was a showcase of exactly why Carson should continue to be a character on Atlantis. It only highlighted to me how pointless and ridiculous a death it was. Explosive tumours....what a total disrespect to the character and the actor.

High praise and thanks to Paul McGillion for making me really care for Beckett as a character. He'll be sorely missed.

mrtvr4
January 16th, 2007, 07:03 AM
Since when did they actually say it was Sheppard she was pining over?

I thought it remained un-named?

p.s the expression slash gal reminds me kind of amusingly of __ hag! (hint, the __ rhymes with hag)

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 07:04 AM
I am about to watch Sunday it can't be that bad can it ?

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 07:05 AM
I see now that Sunday is really 317....

Sunday is 318

Domesticated Equine
January 16th, 2007, 07:08 AM
I spend most of my time here in the anti-threads and have pretty much given any hope of SGA being anything more than 'slightly entertaining'. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that the show could still make me care about the characters enough to move me to tears. "Sunday" was, without a doubt, my favourite SGA episode in a long time and among the very best of the series.

There are two things that separate this episode from the standard SGA fare and really elevate "Sunday" to a whole new level. Obviously, the death of a regular character is something special and a chance for some great drama. On the other hand, killing off a popular character and doing it badly can be a good way to alienate a lot of fans (Lost with Eko would be my recent example).

While I'm going to miss Beckett, I think the episode was a wonderful send-off for him. His characterization has been inconsistent in the series, but here he was shown as a kind and caring man who would risk his own life without hesitation if he could save another's. While some may feel he should've died in a more heroic matter, saving the galaxy or whatnot, I disagree. He did die as a hero, doing his job and saving another man's life which is what his work is of course all about. The relative mundaness of the situation and of his death just goes to show that the everyday life of the Atlantis expedition is very dangerous and anyone could potentially die. Of course, I realize that this is TV and the main characters can't be killed off in the vein of, say, George R.R. Martin, but it's nice to know that not everyone in the main credits is immortal.

The second thing that made this episode great was that it was so character-focused. I can easily overlook all kinds of stupid plot holes if the writers allow the characters to feel, think and interact with each other believably. We often get bad characterization because the characters service the needs of the plot, but with little plot to speak of in this episode, the characters were allowed to shine. I'm not saying every episode should be balanced like this, but if TPTB were to focus more on the characters, SGA's future would look a lot brighter.

The episode was not without any problems, of course. The way some characters were introduced felt pretty jarring as they've never been mentioned before but our main characters still know them. With better planning we could have at least found out about their existence earlier. Also, some relationships such as Rodney/Katie and Sheppard/Tayla were yanked out of stasis rather abruptly. I know I'm not the most avid SGA fan, but were we supposed to know that Rodney's still actually dating Katie? Furthermore, Mike's scenes with Weir weren't my favourites, but I was happy to see how she handled herself in the end.

I just wish the writers continued treating their characters like this in the future, but I remain skeptical. In any case, I'm happy to give the episode a scientifically accurate grade of

9/10

Loredana
January 16th, 2007, 07:11 AM
Sunday is 318



Mhh.. your math is wrong.. sorry :D...

SUBMERSION is 318
VENGEANCE is 319
FIRST STRIKE is 320

As I know Atlantis series are only 20 eps.. not 21...

Admins should change episodes numbers the right way... there is no logic in Sunday being 314....

Alipeeps
January 16th, 2007, 07:11 AM
Well I'm gonna post my initial thoughts before I go back and read through the thread.

Okay. So. I cried my eyes out. I admit it.

Much as I wish we didn't have to lose Carson from the show, I have to admit that this was an incredibly powerful and emotional episode. I think what made it so was not just losing such a well-loved character (and well-loved by the character in the show, not just by the fans) but also the way in which it happened and the way we saw the aftermath of that. We've list people before in SGA (Grodin springs to mind) but it has always been in the heat of battle, in the midst of life and death situations and there has been no time to stop and greive. In this situation.. with his death happening in the midst of a time of relative peace and relaxation, we saw the impact on Carson's friends and colleagues in painful detail. Almost too painful.

If I have one criticism of this episode it is on that point... in some ways I feel it perhaps tried a little too hard to pull at the heartstrings.. the explosion happening in slow-mo and Carson being swallowed up by the flames, the funeral scene that seemed to run just a little too long with repeated close-ups of pained faces, and the end scene... I di find that scene just a little too schmaltzy for my tastes.

Overall though, once I'd got done with the heartfelt sobbing, I did very much enjoy this episode. Aside from the obvious aspect of it, there is much to enjoy in terms of character interaction and lovely little character moments. It was great to see the characters outside of their normal interactions. I *loved* the Shep 'n' Ronon show! I loved Rodney with Katie - nice to see some continuity there and even reference to their shared history.. though she does seem a taf shy and wilting for a man like Rodney? But hey, maybe he likes not having to be an arrogant ogre around her, eh? ;) I loved how in his first scene with her he seemed so comfortable, not awkward for once. Sure, things got awkward over lunch but only because they got into discussing icky relationship stuff and that's enough to freak any man out! :lol:

The shippery hints were intesting. I'm guessing the Sheyla shippers are feeling pretty happy right now and I admit I kinda interpreted things that way (and I get the feeling it was kinda intended to lean that way) but they still left it open enough that those who don't feel that way can imagine what they want... I know there has been a lot of discussion of late (and I really don't want to get into that here) of how people are frustrated with that but I kinda like keeping it kinda open for everyone...

And hey, I bet the Shep/Ronon slashers are feeling pretty happy right about now too! It's all in the interpretation folks... ;) :D

I also rarther liked seeing Weir be a little bit girly and giddy in this ep.. thinking in particular of her conversation with Teyla. Loved that. Loved seeing that they have a close friendship where they meet for lunch and where Weir can talk to Teyla about being asked out by a guy etc etc... and why shouldn't she be allowed to be a bit giddy now and then eh? You can't be "on duty" and super-serious 24/7.

Oh and Beckett (may he rest in peace *sobs*) teasing her in the hallway and being the little gossip was just wonderful. Knowing where the ep was ultimately leading, I did find myself watching Beckett's moments in it with a heavy heart and a growing sense of tension and sadness... by the time it came to operate I was clasping my hands and muttering "Oh no. Carson........." now and then.. :o

All in all, much to enjoy about this ep and it's certainly one I will watch many times... well, up to a certain point anyway. I can only handle so much weeping.... *sniffles sadly*

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 07:13 AM
your math is wrong

I was close ;)

Marianne_24
January 16th, 2007, 07:18 AM
I admit I didn't read all posts about this episode... sorry if the subject was brought already, but why is Sunday considered still episode 314 when in The Ark Becket is still alive...

I see now that Sunday is really 317....

3x14 is I think the production number. They filmed the episodes out of order. That's why GW got news of that epi befor ethe other ones. It was just not changed back to the airing order then.

Cailliath
January 16th, 2007, 07:22 AM
LoL, I love how many see the episode as a great send off for Beckett and many don't. It's so interesting seeing the different interpretations and viewpoints.

Red Phoniex
January 16th, 2007, 07:28 AM
Oh and Beckett (may he rest in peace *sobs*) teasing her in the hallway and being the little gossip was just wonderful. Knowing where the ep was ultimately leading, I did find myself watching Beckett's moments in it with a heavy heart and a growing sense of tension and sadness... by the time it came to operate I was clasping my hands and muttering "Oh no. Carson........." now and then.. :o



I was the same :o everytime he came on i was trying to remember everything about him, screaming at the screen for Rodney to go with him or someone. I know i'm sad but with shows like this, you get to know the characters like a best friend. It's the same as losing them in real life. I cried at Janet, I cried at Daniel and I cried at Carson and if i'm still watching my S4, i'll properly cry for someone else. I don't know why i watch TV anymore :( i'm too soft :D

ata_beckett
January 16th, 2007, 07:32 AM
I absolutely LOVED this episode.

Not every episode can be ACTIONACTIONACTIONALIENSWRAITHGUNS, and I'm glad that they took the time out to produce an episode like this, with so many great character moments. Because honestly? If you don't care about the characters in a show, you're not going to care about what happens to them, and it ultimately makes a show unwatchable.

OMG Carson. I was literally in tears during the last bit. TEARS.

And I'm not upset at how Carson died-- yes, I would rather something happened with Michael and Carson being held hostage or something, but when it comes to character, it makes more sense that he'd go out saving someone.

FANTASTIC episode.

Marianne_24
January 16th, 2007, 07:34 AM
LoL, I love how many see the episode as a great send off for Beckett and many don't. It's so interesting seeing the different interpretations and viewpoints.

Besides the fact I didn't want Carson to be send off it was a dignified last episode for him. And I was nibbling on my fingernails the whole time cause i knew what was going to happen but not when (and boo at that vFX. didn't need that, kthxbai)

Cailliath
January 16th, 2007, 07:44 AM
Besides the fact I didn't want Carson to be send off it was a dignified last episode for him. And I was nibbling on my fingernails the whole time cause i knew what was going to happen but not when (and boo at that vFX. didn't need that, kthxbai)

Me too. I actually hid behind my hands when he was walking down the corridors on his lonesome because I was just waiting on it exploding. If only he could have handed the tumour over then immediately sprinted back to the infimary or something...lol.

TJuk
January 16th, 2007, 07:46 AM
LoL, I love how many see the episode as a great send off for Beckett and many don't. It's so interesting seeing the different interpretations and viewpoints.

Dont get me wrong, it was a good solid dramatic episode. The was nothing exceptoinal about the storyline, some of the scenes were great fun and the dialogue wasn't always great. I noticed Weir's Eulogy for him was almost the partyline of 'People die' we'll be fed. It was pretty hard NOT to be moved simply from the acting, you could tell the ACTORS themselves were upset. As David put it, they were all loosing a friend as well.

I had VERY mixed feelings through because it was so off. The weird time jumping, the pacing, the fun stuff didn't mix with the dramatic as well as it could. Seperately they were both good but I found that butt-joining them because of the time jumps made his death a little flippant.

At the end of the day, the problem I have personally is it was ultimate pointless. As a stand alone episode, pretty darn good, one of the best this season to a degree. As an episode that lead to the death of an important MAIN character....utterly pointless. The way they killed him was almost...an after thought, a....oh I cant think of a way to end this episode...ah ha! Not caring or thinking about any far reaching consquences to either the series OR the fans.

And they couldn't even WAIT to introduce his replacement character (if not the actress who will play her next season...or maybe later in this one). That to me says they really couldn't give a damn about Carson or Paul. He was nice when he was a shiny new toy, but they got bored of him and cast him away.

Alipeeps
January 16th, 2007, 07:48 AM
original. so was Jack.


John married? ARGH what a fraking cliche.

Why on earth is it a clichť to have Sheppard havng been married? What, cos no-one else in the world (or even the world of TV) ever does that? If anything, I would find it odd for a guy Sheppard's age - and with good looks and charm - not to have had at least one serious relationship.

And having a marriage in his past is unoriginal because Jack was married once too? Are you serious? So no-one in the show can be married or have been married because it's unoriginal because characters in SG1 are or were married? :rolleyes:



His death was pointless. A waste. It meant nothing in the grand scheme of things to the storyline. There was no grand story arc. No 'disappearence'. And to be honest, very little meaning for the very episode except in specific scenes. It was almost like an evil after-thought to decide to kill him. Haha I bet the fans will hate this. Martin Gero I know you are reading this thread, can you at least give us the courtesy of explaining WHY?


But isn't that the point? Death is meaningless. And every day people die for stupid reasons, in pointless ways, people that don't deserve to die. Death is sudden and ugly and it takes you when you are least expecting it. If anything, that makes Carson's loss all the more poignant, all the more painful. is death is the more dramatic for being contrasted again such a happy, innocent occasion. If he'd died doing something larger than life and heroic, in the midst of some mighty struggle, then the drama of his death would have been caught up in that struggle (see Peter Grodin for details). As it was, Carson died when he least expected it, he died doing his job, saving lives no matter what.

Dr Carson Beckett. RIP. *sobs quietly*

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 07:56 AM
If Carson comes back to life I will be very annoyed. Not the fact that because its Carson that died but because of the fact dying & coming back to life has always been Daniels thing. If Carson comes back to life they might as well just nick name Carson Daniel Jackson Junior. If Carson comes back to life they have officially RUN OUT OF IDEAS for Stargate Atlantis.

nonniemous
January 16th, 2007, 07:59 AM
But isn't that the point? Death is meaningless. And every day people die for stupid reasons, in pointless ways, people that don't deserve to die. Death is sudden and ugly and it takes you when you are least expecting it. If anything, that makes Carson's loss all the more poignant, all the more painful. is death is the more dramatic for being contrasted again such a happy, innocent occasion. If he'd died doing something larger than life and heroic, in the midst of some mighty struggle, then the drama of his death would have been caught up in that struggle (see Peter Grodin for details). As it was, Carson died when he least expected it, he died doing his job, saving lives no matter what.

Dr Carson Beckett. RIP. *sobs quietly*

If I want meaningless, pointless death I'll watch Battlestar Galactica and or the evening news. In this particular case, all it does is point out the utter meaninglessness of killing off a great character who was an asset to the show both on screen and off. I don't watch SGA to be reminded how people die in real life; I watch SGA as a brief holiday from real life.

Marianne_24
January 16th, 2007, 08:01 AM
If Carson comes back to life I will be very annoyed. Not the fact that because its Carson that died but because of the fact dying & coming back to life has always been Daniels thing. If Carson comes back to life they might as well just nick name Carson Daniel Jackson Junior. If Carson comes back to life they have officially RUN OUT OF IDEAS for Stargate Atlantis.

...but how to manage in SciFi no one ever dies otherwise? /sarcasm

TJuk
January 16th, 2007, 08:01 AM
But isn't that the point? Death is meaningless. And every day people die for stupid reasons, in pointless ways, people that don't deserve to die. Death is sudden and ugly and it takes you when you are least expecting it. If anything, that makes Carson's loss all the more poignant, all the more painful. is death is the more dramatic for being contrasted again such a happy, innocent occasion. If he'd died doing something larger than life and heroic, in the midst of some mighty struggle, then the drama of his death would have been caught up in that struggle (see Peter Grodin for details). As it was, Carson died when he least expected it, he died doing his job, saving lives no matter what.

Dr Carson Beckett. RIP. *sobs quietly*

Yes, death is pointless. Speaking as someone who just lost a parent I can throughly agree with that. But it wasn't just pointless in the sense off loss and thats not what I was trying to express.

It was utterly pointless to kill his character off not just the manner of his death.

There was no grand finale to a story, maybe a sweeping under the carpet for the retrovirus arc. It wasn't even something to build up to the end of the season, to leave us on a heart stopping cliffhanger. There were no 'bad guys' to hate, no far reaching effects, no consquences, no way they will follow it up NOTHING to leave anything but a pointless waste of a character and a bad taste in the mouths of the poeple who worked hard to see him a reg. Who trust TPTB to USE him once they did so and have patiently waited for some of those promises to be fulfilled.

Death is pointless yes, but death is also an escape, a way out and thats EXACTLY what they've done. And replacing him so callously makes it even more evident his death was not some grand dramatic brave move but simply a cop-out because they didn't know what to do with the character.

So whose next? (excluding poor Torri/Weir).

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 08:02 AM
In SciFi no one ever dies

John - That's a myth

Vicky
January 16th, 2007, 08:03 AM
If Carson comes back to life I will be very annoyed. Not the fact that because its Carson that died but because of the fact dying & coming back to life has always been Daniels thing. If Carson comes back to life they might as well just nick name Carson Daniel Jackson Junior. If Carson comes back to life they have officially RUN OUT OF IDEAS for Stargate Atlantis.

You know I actually wouldn't mind if he came back the same way Daniel did. *waggles eyebrows*

But I don't think he will. If he ever comes back (and not to life) it would probably be through flashback or something else.

IMO, John being married is so not clichť. I totally hadn't expected that. What he said that I was like "Huh?"

Marianne_24
January 16th, 2007, 08:07 AM
IMO, John being married is so not clichť. I totally hadn't expected that. What he said that I was like "Huh?"

Yeah, huh? like did he just say he was married? It may be Cliche in regards that Jack was, too but really he isn't a 20-something flyboy. Why shouldn't he have been married at some point (and realizing it didn't work out)?

windshieldbug
January 16th, 2007, 08:17 AM
Well after reading Mr. Mallozzi's blog, and his outright slagging off of SGA fans (ill informed lemmings indeed) . I will not be watching anymore.

http://joesphmallozzi.blogspot.com

Did he delete this blog? I have clicked on it and it gives me an unfound error.

Franklyn Blaze
January 16th, 2007, 08:22 AM
...


Oh and I hadn't said that before, but the way Carson died, well it made me think of a GA ep... *rollseyes*





It totally reminded me of Grey's Anatomy. They only thing was they killed the bomb carrier guy and not the one who handed it off. Theirs was better, cause they developed the bomb carrier's character over an hour and a half, so when he died you felt a loss. And there was a witness to his death so it created trauma for the character who started to like him.
Everythings been done (better) somewhere atleast once if you look hard enough. :)

Attack of the Killer Tumors, oy vey. Lets just let all our doctors become meat shields from now on, that will save more lives.:(

Marianne_24
January 16th, 2007, 08:25 AM
Did he delete this blog? I have clicked on it and it gives me an unfound error.

No, the url was just a bit wrong ;)

http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/

lunarleviathan
January 16th, 2007, 08:27 AM
I can see where people are coming from with the John having been married being clichť - that aspect of the character is stereotypical of male military lead characters. However, that's what happens with characters, without clichťs and stereotyping of characters everything would be too complex. Even if you take a show that prides itself on it's grey characters, such as Battlestar Galactica, it's riddled with clichťs and stereotypical characters. I don't see how John, given his personality and the fact he's a military man, wouldn't have A. been married, and B. failed in that marriage. Makes a whole lot of sense to me.

Edit: For heavens sake, why are people obsessed with that blog entry? It doesn't say Atlantis fans are lemmings. It does say that people who complain about things using almost entirely speculative reasoning are lemmings. An observation I would agree with. Omg, I don't like that you killed Carson, you did it because you hate Paul McGillion and bow to the fascist dictatorship of the maniacal Sci-Fi network didn't you???

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 08:33 AM
I think it's the fact this marriage thing came in the middle of an episode that was from start to end cliche after cliche after cliche

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 08:41 AM
Am I the only one that hated that slow motion thing with Carson walking away from the fire ? It was annoying & stupid the slow motion thing during that moment

female Wraith
January 16th, 2007, 08:43 AM
Very sad episode.
I thought Becket will die in a glorious battle or dealing with Wraith. But this bomb was so... stupid way to kill Becket. I am disapointed.

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 08:44 AM
That was quite possibly the worse moment of the show, not because it was Carson's final scene alive, but because it was like something out of a cheesy anime cartoon.

Jolinar68
January 16th, 2007, 08:45 AM
Please explain a newbie who you mean when you are writing "TPTB"?

Well, haven't seen this ep yet, but I'm afraid I will need some hankies :(

I guess nobody of you know why Beckett/McGillion had to leave Atlantis?

FireCat
January 16th, 2007, 08:46 AM
What a terrible way to dispose of a fan favorite. Why in the world would they want to get rid of Carson? I watch TV to spend time with characters I care about and to forget about the horrors of the real world. Seeing a character I care for get pushed out in such a useless way just screams bad writing. Did the writers not know what to do with Carson anymore? Is that why they want to write off others as well? Then I read that Joe blog and I realize they just have no respect for the audience at all.

Disappointed in the episode and even more disappointed in the attitudes of the writing staff.

chemicalNova
January 16th, 2007, 08:47 AM
Please explain a newbie who you mean when you are writing "TPTB"?

Well, haven't seen this ep yet, but I'm afraid I will need some hankies :(

I guess nobody of you know why Beckett/McGillion had to leave Atlantis?

TPTB = The Powers That Be. The people who control the show.

I liked the episode. Not a "woah REPLAY!" episode, but good enough for a once off.

chem

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 08:51 AM
If there was a most pointless death in tv award shows this one would win it with no problem

Franklyn Blaze
January 16th, 2007, 08:52 AM
TPTB = The Powers That Be. The people who control the show.

I liked the episode. Not a "woah REPLAY!" episode, but good enough for a once off.

chem

This season is not looking good for DVD sales. Theres a few good things intermixed with some really bad stuff. Reminds me of music albums with only one good tune, feh.:(

majortrip
January 16th, 2007, 09:01 AM
Wow. What a fantastic episode. And I don't mean it's fantastic that a beloved character died. I mean fantastic that they managed to bring great character moments, sweetness, comedy and tragedy together in one episode that will definitely land in my top 5 for the year and possibly the series.

Sure there were some cliches. In fact, it's very difficult not to spot some in every TV program I watch. And sure, possibly some fuzzy science (I'm sorry, did you say explosive tumor?), but I wasn't able to get hung up on that stuff because I found the various vignettes involving each character too engaging to be distracted by those things.

I don't even know where to begin. Each member of the cast was brilliant. I like the ambiguity of the what-man-does-Teyla-want-to-talk-to and how-does-Sheppard-see-Teyla bits. Very mysterious, and their scene in the infirmary was lovely.

Sheppard + Ronon = Brilliant. I was laughing out loud during their whole bit.

Rodney was fantastic. He goes from being superior on his high horse to admitting he'd like to marry one day and very sweet with Katie. Wow. And she's right, there's really no subtext with McKay. I thought his bit was brilliant, too.

Elizabeth was lovely. Her telling Teyla about her lunch with Mike (what a cutie!) and her defensiveness with Carson about her 'hot date' shows how conflicted she is regarding the balance between her professional life and her personal life. It was very human to want the attention of another person, yet she doesn't want split her focus. Great character moment for Elizabeth, and her speech at Carson's service was good. I didn't feel it dragged on, and they needed to get everyone's reaction/sadness at losing another of their own. Not just their own, but a member of the senior staff. This season so far has placed an emphasis on how close this 'family' has become, so I didn't feel uncomfortable as the camera panned to get everyone's sad faces.

Which brings me to Carson. For me, Carson has always brought a warmth and a sweetness to the show, and I'm very sad to see him go. I'm disappointed that no one wanted to fish with him, and I was touched at his enthusiasm about his day off and the prospect of catching space trout. I think everyon's guilt was evident at the end. But he went trying to save a patient, and had I not read spoilers, I would've been shocked to see he almost made it. Makes me want to consider trying to be spoiler-free for S4, lol. It's a terrible loss, and I wonder where they'll bring that sweetness into the show now. I have to say, Paul McGillion as Carson has been worth every second of screentime he's gotten. I'll miss him.

Which brings me to another warm character, Zelenka. Worth every second, too. Playing chess for trades? A swedish massage? His chess partner? Brilliant. Oh, and Lorne's an artist? Fab.

The ending scene with Carson and Rodney was wonderful. The admission of best-buddydom and McKay's guilt made me feel Rodney's pain.

I'm reluctant to give any episode a 10/10, because there are always little things that pop into my mind to consider, but this is close.

sgeureka
January 16th, 2007, 09:10 AM
Also, some relationships such as Rodney/Katie and Sheppard/Tayla were yanked out of stasis rather abruptly. I know I'm not the most avid SGA fan, but were we supposed to know that Rodney's still actually dating Katie?The Game

McKAY: Well, I don't know. It's not the point. It's an ethical dilemma. Look, Katie Brown brought it up over dinner the other night. The question is: Is it appropriate to divert the train and kill the one baby to save the ten people?

It at least implies they're still in contact somehow.


At the end of the day, the problem I have personally is it was ultimate pointless. As a stand alone episode, pretty darn good, one of the best this season to a degree. As an episode that lead to the death of an important MAIN character....utterly pointless. The way they killed him was almost...an after thought, a....oh I cant think of a way to end this episode...ah ha! Not caring or thinking about any far reaching consquences to either the series OR the fans.I don't question your feelings or anything :), but what makes an episode pointless? When there are no mentions of the season story arc or the main villain? I'd argue the point of this episode (other than to ultimately kill off Beckett) was to show a day off, and give some insight into how/what characters think, what they enjoy, how they interact in non-perilous situations,... That's where I think this episode succeeded, making it IMO not pointless at all.

You (general you) can make up your mind if the death itself was (supposed to be) pointless or not. I could argue either way. :)


There was no grand finale to a story, maybe a sweeping under the carpet for the retrovirus arc. It wasn't even something to build up to the end of the season, to leave us on a heart stopping cliffhanger. There were no 'bad guys' to hate, no far reaching effects, no consquences, no way they will follow it up NOTHING to leave anything but a pointless waste of a character and a bad taste in the mouths of the poeple who worked hard to see him a reg. Who trust TPTB to USE him once they did so and have patiently waited for some of those promises to be fulfilled. Sorry to hear about your recent loss, but IMO, TV deaths take place too often in the first or last two (huge) episodes of the season (usually because of imminent cast changes). It's gotten to the point where I expect characters to get killed/offed that it no longer has much of an effect on me.

Killing off a character in an episode somewhere in a season in a not-so-obvious episode seems refreshening to me (in a weird way). Of course, I've been spoiled, and I never cared much about the character, so it didn't hit me like the average non-spoiled fan. But since we're already talking about clichť in this thread, I'd say killing Beckett off in the way you proposed would have made the death clichť (IMO, and I reserve the right to change my opinion about this any time. :))

crompton20
January 16th, 2007, 09:19 AM
why did they kill him off why? and is it just me imagining things or when there were first announcments made of him no longer being a season reguler were we told he would be in some eps in season 4, certainly there were comments that suggested this. Which makes me question did the episode change? or were they just trying to shut fans up and blatantly lieing to us!!?????

one thing i would have liked for this ep? hmm we can't bring michael back how about ford, him and beckett have the history over fords treatment, that way they could have wrapped up both characters storys in one final episode. maybe with beckett curing ford and dying in the process and ford having to leave for abit to go see his family. or even better not kill beckett at all

Domesticated Equine
January 16th, 2007, 09:22 AM
The Game

McKAY: Well, I don't know. It's not the point. It's an ethical dilemma. Look, Katie Brown brought it up over dinner the other night. The question is: Is it appropriate to divert the train and kill the one baby to save the ten people?

It at least implies they're still in contact somehow.

Good catch. Even so, it seems this relationship was essentially forgotten about by the writers. I really hope it doesn't happen again and we are at least kept somewhat in the loop. Anyone know if the actress who plays Katie is scheduled for more episodes?





The Game
Killing off a character in an episode somewhere in a season in a not-so-obvious episode seems refreshening to me (in a weird way). Of course, I've been spoiled, and I never cared much about the character, so it didn't hit me like the average non-spoiled fan. But since we're already talking about clichť in this thread, I'd say killing Beckett off in the way you proposed would have made the death clichť (IMO, and I reserve the right to change my opinion about this any time. :))

I agree. I'd say giving Beckett a heroic death at the end of the season while fighting against the wraith (replicators) would have been a much bigger cliche.

Domesticated Equine
January 16th, 2007, 09:26 AM
why did they kill him off why? and is it just me imagining things or when there were first announcments made of him no longer being a season reguler were we told he would be in some eps in season 4, certainly there were comments that suggested this. Which makes me question did the episode change? or were they just trying to shut fans up and blatantly lieing to us!!?????



Based on just what we saw on-screen, nothing's stopping Paul McGillion coming back in season 4. There are always flashbacks, hallucinations, virtual realities, time travels, alternate universes, etc. that can be used if he's wanted back.

Azriel
January 16th, 2007, 09:31 AM
Reading this thread, there is one thing I do not understand, Sunday is listed as being the 14th episode of Season 3 with Tao of Rodney being 03x15. What is confusing me is if Carson dies in Sunday, how is he then in TOR treating Zelenka when he is injured (assuming the episodes are in chronological order). If not, why not have Sunday as episode 15 and TOR as 14?

crompton20
January 16th, 2007, 09:33 AM
there listed in production order, sunday was produced/filmed before those eps

prion
January 16th, 2007, 09:40 AM
No, the url was just a bit wrong ;)

http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/

could someone just posted the relevant portion from the blog here? it won't open for me (it';s just SLOW........). I'm curious precisely what he said (probably won't surprise me though). thanks!

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 09:42 AM
from the blog of Joe Mallozzi


Fondy and I are working our way through the second season of Boston Legal and are really enjoying the series. But one thing I found quite bizarre was the disappearance of one of the cast members. Sheís in the showís opening credits but only appeared in a handful of episodes before vanishing completely. Strange. She was a likable enough character. I wondered who was to blame for her disappearance. Was it the producers? The network? The studio? The actress herself? Was it a variety of factors? Some of the above? All of the above? Or maybe none of the above? Well, there was one thing I knew for sure, and that was that I knew nothing for sure. I considered joining some online fan forum and joining the chorus blaming the producers for her sudden disappearance, that episode with the singing, and my dogís eye condition - but ultimately decided against it because I realized it would only make me sound like a shrill and ill-informed lemming. Still, it was tempting. Thereís something strangely comforting and delusively empowering about chiming in with an anonymous mob, albeit one that lacks any true insight into the reality of a situation.

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 09:43 AM
I am sure that Paul will visit the set & can easily be kept in the loop with whats going on. Remember he is pretty much Jewels neighbor they live close to each other so I am sure they all will keep in touch.

Alipeeps
January 16th, 2007, 09:45 AM
Based on just what we saw on-screen, nothing's stopping Paul McGillion coming back in season 4. There are always flashbacks, hallucinations, virtual realities, time travels, alternate universes, etc. that can be used if he's wanted back.

Yeah, that's pretty much what TPTB mean by the "nobody ever really dies in sci-fi" line - it's not saying that the character isn't gonna be dead.. just that there are always ways to wangle it to bring them back for an ep now and then etc...

Domesticated Equine
January 16th, 2007, 09:46 AM
Ah yes, the writers blatantly insulting the fans is always good idea. It's not like we pay their wages. Oh, wait.

prion
January 16th, 2007, 10:01 AM
from the blog of Joe Mallozzi

Oh, okay, I considered joining some online fan forum and joining the chorus blaming the producers for her sudden disappearance, that episode with the singing, and my dogís eye condition - but ultimately decided against it because I realized it would only make me sound like a shrill and ill-informed lemming. Still, it was tempting. Thereís something strangely comforting and delusively empowering about chiming in with an anonymous mob, albeit one that lacks any true insight into the reality of a situation.

Alas, he's a twit. He also doesn't know a damned thing about lemmings. He's il-informed. Argh.... of course, he can say this all safely behind his moderated blog...

ShoDar
January 16th, 2007, 10:06 AM
It was an interesting episode. I'm not quite sure how I feel about it, which probably means it's really good because it's making me think :)

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 10:07 AM
This is quite possily the worst death ever of a main character

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/13/633882/Carson.gif

Forget about why it happened whine about how it happened because that is an awful death

caty
January 16th, 2007, 10:09 AM
I miss him, his accent and his caring nature already *cries*

StayingOccupied
January 16th, 2007, 10:09 AM
I liked the episode a lot. I liked the interactions. I'd rather have Carson die as a result of the wraith or another enemy, not a dumb mistake.

Jersey13
January 16th, 2007, 10:21 AM
whoah... that animated gif is... disturbing. Would you be willing to put that behind spoiler tags, hon?

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 10:26 AM
Yes...PLEASE put Carson's actual death in spoiler tags :(

Wormhole
January 16th, 2007, 10:32 AM
Iíve not seen this episode due to being in the UK, but is it possible Carson was beamed out of that with out anyoneís knowledge?

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 10:33 AM
Iíve not seen this episode due to being in the UK, but is it possible Carson was beamed out of that with out anyoneís knowledge?

They recovered his body & took it to earth for a funeral (Ronon went). But it sucks that Ronons first visit to earth was for a funeral for a friend :(

GateByte
January 16th, 2007, 10:39 AM
This is quite possily the worst death ever of a main character

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/13/633882/Carson.gif

Forget about why it happened whine about how it happened because that is an awful death

It was an absolutely horrible way for him to die. Something I really have no desire to watch again for a very very long time. :(

The more they kept showing Carson going to everyone about fishing, and him being turned down and people agreeing to it next week, you just knew something very bad was going to happen.

But as far as the episode is concerned, I really thought it was very well done. Creative with the whole 'exploding tumours' thing. I liked how they went back in time to show things from all the main characters' viewpoint. They even managed to squeeze in a lot of the recurring ones too, which was a pleasant surprise. I also thought that the ending with Rodney/Carson was beautifully done.

Overall I really liked the episode, but I don't know if I'll be able to watch it again any time soon. :(

ata_beckett
January 16th, 2007, 10:39 AM
I think it all comes down to this:

If Heighmeyer hadn't called for the whole "mandatory day off" thing, this wouldn't have happened.

So if we're going to blame anyone for what happened, blame Heightmeyer, not Rodney. :)

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 10:41 AM
Rodney is the last person to be blamed for his death

buzlighty1
January 16th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Bye Bye Beckett, But isn't this episode 17 instead of 14?

leelakin
January 16th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Based on just what we saw on-screen, nothing's stopping Paul McGillion coming back in season 4. There are always flashbacks, hallucinations, virtual realities, time travels, alternate universes, etc. that can be used if he's wanted back.

Yeah, because such "comebacks" are always so much fun ...not.
If they pull a "Ford" on him or bring him "back" like Janet... that would make it even worse for me, seriously. And I would feel like they used Paul to boost ratings after kicking him out so pitifully.
Just my opinion though.

Franklyn Blaze
January 16th, 2007, 10:57 AM
Pictures:

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/731/image008it3.th.gif (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image008it3.gif) http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5065/image007mz4.th.gif (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image007mz4.gif) http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/6632/image006zk6.th.gif (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image006zk6.gif) http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/7494/image005bb2.th.gif (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image005bb2.gif) http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1928/image004vx3.th.gif (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image004vx3.gif) http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6637/image003kz8.th.gif (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image003kz8.gif) http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/387/image002vl1.th.gif (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image002vl1.gif)
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3491/image023vp0.th.gif (http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image023vp0.gif) http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9125/image022kj3.th.gif (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image022kj3.gif) http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4261/image020ka5.th.gif (http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image020ka5.gif) http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/28/image021pq4.th.gif (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image021pq4.gif) http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7225/image019oo9.th.gif (http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image019oo9.gif) http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2656/image013wu5.th.gif (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image013wu5.gif) http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/5844/image017mf0.th.gif (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image017mf0.gif) http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/2471/image014ip8.th.gif (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image014ip8.gif) http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3933/image018fy0.th.gif (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image018fy0.gif) http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7246/image016dl2.th.gif (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image016dl2.gif) http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3209/image015um8.th.gif (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image015um8.gif) http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6890/image011fh7.th.gif (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image011fh7.gif)

Franklyn Blaze
January 16th, 2007, 10:58 AM
More Pictures:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5175/image012hh1.th.gif (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image012hh1.gif) http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1843/image010ba9.th.gif (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image010ba9.gif) http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8076/image009go2.th.gif (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image009go2.gif)
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1482/image036qo9.th.gif (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image036qo9.gif) http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8789/image037eo1.th.gif (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image037eo1.gif) http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/9322/image035wa6.th.gif (http://img487.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image035wa6.gif) http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1354/image035fs9.th.gif (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image035fs9.gif) http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7081/image030eo0.th.gif (http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image030eo0.gif) http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7246/image034in8.th.gif (http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image032oo3.gif) http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8224/image033mh5.th.gif (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image033mh5.gif) http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6250/image029vs7.th.gif (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image031jh7.gif)
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1717/image027mc8.th.gif (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image027mc8.gif)
Death scene:
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7369/image031jh7.th.gifhttp://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5702/image032oo3.th.gif

Franklyn Blaze
January 16th, 2007, 10:59 AM
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3696/image028gg2.th.gif (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image028gg2.gif) http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/8030/image026yu3.th.gif (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image026yu3.gif) http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/9356/image025hb4.th.gif (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image025hb4.gif) http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4121/image024kw2.th.gif (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image024kw2.gif)
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Franklyn Blaze
January 16th, 2007, 10:59 AM
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sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 11:00 AM
can you leave out the pictures of him actually dying please :(

Franklyn Blaze
January 16th, 2007, 11:18 AM
They're in spolier tags now. People can view them at their discretion.

ata_beckett
January 16th, 2007, 11:32 AM
Quick question:

Am I the only one who didn't really see the whole Rodney and Carson being best friends thing? Yes, I always gathered that they were friends, but it always seemed to me like Rodney was closer to John than to Carson.

*shrug*:confused:

Vicky
January 16th, 2007, 11:34 AM
I think it all comes down to this:

If Heighmeyer hadn't called for the whole "mandatory day off" thing, this wouldn't have happened.

So if we're going to blame anyone for what happened, blame Heightmeyer, not Rodney. :)

She is not to blame either. That would have happened even without the day off. They had worked on this Ancient device the night before so day off or not wouldn't have had changed that.

ata_beckett
January 16th, 2007, 11:35 AM
Jooooking.

I'm joking. :)

shelsfc
January 16th, 2007, 11:43 AM
Quick question:

Am I the only one who didn't really see the whole Rodney and Carson being best friends thing? Yes, I always gathered that they were friends, but it always seemed to me like Rodney was closer to John than to Carson.

*shrug*:confused:

I think that's what they were going for, and I get the impression those two are quite close too. But Rodney and Carson's relationship seemed to develop almost in the background over the series. To be honest, I didn't even really notice it in S1 till I rewatched it. Now it's my favourite realtionship on the show! Or at least, it was.

lizzy4ever
January 16th, 2007, 11:45 AM
I've just watched this episode, I like it very much until Carson dies:( I don't know if the producers have a problem with how to kill their characters or if it's me who has a problem with how they kill their characters (still following?) but the whole death scene really sucks. I didn't like Kolya's death but this is worse...they could have imagined for him a better way to go (or better not make him go at all...)

andi_b
January 16th, 2007, 11:46 AM
I'm normally a very kind and composed little fangirl. I haven't posted in months.

But I've just seen Sunday, and I'm pissed of as hell at a show that I loved so much against many odds.

HOW COULD THEY F***ING DO THIS???!!

Of all the stupid, business-oriented, money-grabbing, ratings-crazy stunts to pull. They have to f***ing kill Beckett! Even though I'd heard the rumours, it is now that I regret the day I first invested my time and energy in a fandom, and this one in particular.

Curse the writers for creating adorable characters and then killing them off without mercy. It's a disgrace and I know it isn't worth much but they just lost a dedicated fan.

I will probably keep watching, out of habit if nothing else.

But I have to get a life and quit being a fangirl.

Shame, TPTB. Shame.

nonniemous
January 16th, 2007, 11:53 AM
I think that's what they were going for, and I get the impression those two are quite close too. But Rodney and Carson's relationship seemed to develop almost in the background over the series. To be honest, I didn't even really notice it in S1 till I rewatched it. Now it's my favourite realtionship on the show! Or at least, it was.

They've been so busy shoving McKay and Sheppard down our throats that Carson and Rodney's relationship was lost entirely after season 1. I found it laughable, at the least, to have that line in there. Exposition is a no-no. They should have been *showing* us all this time that Rodney & Carson were best friends, but they were too busy rewriting their own glory days so that this time the geek did get to hang out with the cool and popular crowd.

ata_beckett
January 16th, 2007, 11:57 AM
They should have been *showing* us all this time that Rodney & Carson were best friends, but they were too busy rewriting their own glory days so that this time the geek did get to hang out with the cool and popular crowd.


My thoughts EXACTLY. Maybe we got a little of it in Duet, maybe a little in Sateda, but nothing that I thought warranted the "you were the closest thing to a best friend that I've ever had" line. Yes, it's sweet and gushy and it made me tear up, but I don't see where the heck it came from.

Wormhole
January 16th, 2007, 12:02 PM
Great photos, thanks for posting them. Lol, who won the Golf match then:sheppard: And Glad to see more of the City being shown especially the outside.

Alipeeps
January 16th, 2007, 12:05 PM
I think it all comes down to this:

If Heighmeyer hadn't called for the whole "mandatory day off" thing, this wouldn't have happened.

So if we're going to blame anyone for what happened, blame Heightmeyer, not Rodney. :)


She is not to blame either. That would have happened even without the day off. They had worked on this Ancient device the night before so day off or not wouldn't have had changed that.

Indeed. In fact they probably would have lost half the science dept cos the tumours would have blown while those people were working with their science team colleagues...


My thoughts EXACTLY. Maybe we got a little of it in Duet, maybe a little in Sateda, but nothing that I thought warranted the "you were the closest thing to a best friend that I've ever had" line. Yes, it's sweet and gushy and it made me tear up, but I don't see where the heck it came from.

Yeah, that did kinda throw me a little. We definitely had signs of Carson and Rondey being friends in Season 1 but not so much since and the whole "closest thing to a best friend I've ever had" seemed a bit out of the blue - based on what we've SEEN in the show, i would have assumed that role to be John's.

joebags
January 16th, 2007, 12:08 PM
Episode wouldn't have been too bad until the second half. I do prefer Teyla/Ronon to the Teyla/Shep thing. The guy is old enough to be her father, but then, Shep likes them young. He would just toss Teyla away for the next bombshell blonde that stepped through the gate anyway. No, I'm not a big Sheppard fan.

Killing Carson was just dumb. Makes me wonder just what they are smoking up in Vancouver these days. Maybe Sheppard should have poofed in the great exploding tumor of doom.

Starxgate
January 16th, 2007, 12:08 PM
who won the Golf match then

It was not a match they were teaching Ronon how to play

Chailyn
January 16th, 2007, 12:36 PM
I'm not in a rush to see this one now. Exploding tumors? Ghosts? WTF? Someone needs to put down the glue. ;)

Merlin7
January 16th, 2007, 12:41 PM
Episode wouldn't have been too bad until the second half. I do prefer Teyla/Ronon to the Teyla/Shep thing. The guy is old enough to be her father, but then, Shep likes them young. He would just toss Teyla away for the next bombshell blonde that stepped through the gate anyway. No, I'm not a big Sheppard fan.

Killing Carson was just dumb. Makes me wonder just what they are smoking up in Vancouver these days. Maybe Sheppard should have poofed in the great exploding tumor of doom.

That's amusing. You don't honestly think Teyla is under 20, do you?

Shep isn't anywhere near being old enough to be her father. She's not a young girl. She's a mature woman. And looks it.

Guarnateed she's older than Ronon.

SGAFan
January 16th, 2007, 12:49 PM
Wow, I wonder if some other people and I were watching the same episode. Talk about diverse opinions!

I thought this episode was masterfully done, certainly one of my favorites. I"m so sad to see Carson go, but I for one thought the way they did it was fantastic. And to put it into an episode where it sits in such stark contrast to the humor and "innocence" of a day off is brilliant.

Death is tragic, but when it happens so unexpectedly on what you think is a "normal" day, its even more so.

My emotions went from one end of the spectrum to the other (ROFL at Ronon's golf swing and crying at Carson's funeral)

So much good I can say about the ep, I could write a very long post, but I'll just keep it to saying Sunday sits right up there as one of my all time favorites.

Jersey13
January 16th, 2007, 01:08 PM
I would hesitate to call Sunday anything other than brilliant as well, except that my favorite character was just killed off for no apparent reason and there doesn't seem to be much hope (so far) that we'll ever see him again. I'm angry about that, yes, but you're right, SGAFan. Sunday was a good episode, considering the other things.

andi_b
January 16th, 2007, 01:10 PM
I agree that it was a very good ep. I just don't like losing a favourite character for one :(


Wow, I wonder if some other people and I were watching the same episode. Talk about diverse opinions!

I thought this episode was masterfully done, certainly one of my favorites. I"m so sad to see Carson go, but I for one thought the way they did it was fantastic. And to put it into an episode where it sits in such stark contrast to the humor and "innocence" of a day off is brilliant.

Death is tragic, but when it happens so unexpectedly on what you think is a "normal" day, its even more so.

My emotions went from one end of the spectrum to the other (ROFL at Ronon's golf swing and crying at Carson's funeral)

So much good I can say about the ep, I could write a very long post, but I'll just keep it to saying Sunday sits right up there as one of my all time favorites.

FoolishPleasure
January 16th, 2007, 01:10 PM
That's amusing. You don't honestly think Teyla is under 20, do you?

Shep isn't anywhere near being old enough to be her father. She's not a young girl. She's a mature woman. And looks it.

Guarnateed she's older than Ronon.

The studio bio for Teyla states her age as "early 20's" and Sheppard as 35-40 when the show began - which puts him close to, if not past 40 now and Teyla would be mid-20's. It isn't so far fetched for daddy issues. ;) But I agree, Teyla looks older than what the official bio states, but TPTB have never written her as any older, in fact, they have made a big deal about her people not surviving very long. That old woman who died last season was a big deal because life spans were so short due to the Wraith.

Joe Mallozzi did say on his thread long ago that Ronon was late 20's to early 30's, though no age was ever decided upon. If we are going by "age" then Ronon/Teyla would be a better fit, but since TPTB like to live out their teenage fantasies through Sheppard. . .oh, you know the drill. ;)

Frankly, the whole ship issue needs to die. Resolving ship has damaged BSG, and it would only hurt SGA. . .which already has enough problems to deal with.

SGAFan
January 16th, 2007, 01:11 PM
I agree that it was a very good ep. I just don't like losing a favourite character for one :(

((hugs)) I definitely get that. :(

Alipeeps
January 16th, 2007, 01:26 PM
Episode wouldn't have been too bad until the second half. I do prefer Teyla/Ronon to the Teyla/Shep thing. The guy is old enough to be her father, but then, Shep likes them young. He would just toss Teyla away for the next bombshell blonde that stepped through the gate anyway. No, I'm not a big Sheppard fan.


Can I respectfully request that we keep the character-bashing of this nature out of the ep discussion thread? If you want to make sweeping generalisations about Sheppard's relationships that verge on insinuating paedophilia then kindly take it to the appropriate anti thread or the STAKS thread.

sueKay
January 16th, 2007, 01:29 PM
No matter how good the ep was...it doesn't warrant loosing a main character!

Suzann
January 16th, 2007, 01:41 PM
Can I respectfully request that we keep the character-bashing of this nature out of the ep discussion thread? If you want to make sweeping generalisations about Sheppard's relationships that verge on insinuating paedophilia then kindly take it to the appropriate anti thread or the STAKS thread.

It might also help to remember that the actors are *not* the characters and Joe Flanigan's age has nothing to do with John Sheppard's age. Mid to late 30's can mean anything from 34 to 39. I also don't quite see where the kirking charge comes from. It is canon that Sheppard "never sees [it] coming." That's not the sign of a guy on the prowl. It seems to me as if the only really significant physical relationship Sheppard has had on the series is with Teer in Ephiphany and the circumstances of that are such that it could be argued he believed that he was settled (stuck) there for life. We never see whether he actually gives the princess what she wants in the Tower but I'd think not just from what follows. As for Chaya... who knows what an ascended being can get up to? ;)

Anise76
January 16th, 2007, 01:41 PM
We had all been led to believe that "Sunday" was one of the best Atlantis eps ever, that it had a depth of emotion that would leave us all stunned. If we had listened to Martin Gero specifically, we would have believed that this was Emmy-worthy material.

And what did we get?

We got a plot stolen straight from a Brosnan movie, and a mish-mash of "personal" moments spread out throughout the cast. And for what? What deep insights into the characters did we gain in the sacrifice of Carson? None that would justify his death.

In fact, I can't think of a single thing in that ep that would make his death either worthwhile or noteworthy. It's almost as if they got to the allotted length of the script, and said "oh, crap, I'm stuck! How can we finish it? Oh, I know! We'll do something truly groundbreaking and off the doctor!"

What was the motivation to kill Carson? I see no reason - other than maybe to give Rodney the chance to prove that he DOES have feelings - to have killed him. Personally, I think the episode suffered from the death of a major character - not just Carson, but it would have been the poorer for the needless death of ANY regular. It felt like overkill, a death for death's sake. It didn't feel "realistic", like they would have us believe, and it didn't feel "satisfying".

It made me feel cheated, wronged and wondering what on earth the writers were on when they came up with that gem.

Ella
January 16th, 2007, 01:47 PM
I liked this episode even though they killed one of my favorite characters. I actually thought that it was a better death just because it did seem so pointless and unexpected. I've thought for a while now that Atlantis could use a higher body count just because Pegasus should be a more dangerous place than Earth, so it kind of increases the level of tension. The exploding tumors thing was bizarre but they've done worse.

I wish they'd done more with the Rodney and Carson friendship before offing Carson. They could have had a touching friendship, but they've been pretty nasty to each other at times this season and it kind of made the whole Carson is my best friend thing a little off.

I loved Elizabeth in this ep. Carson and Teyla teasing her was great. It's about time someone noticed Elizabeth's a sexy woman. She should definitely get more dates.

I liked the scene between Ronon and Sheppard. I thought it was cute. I even like the fact that Sheppard was married. I'm a bit confused as to how being married is a cliche. Haven't more people been married at 40 than not? Yes Jack was married. Jack also had brown hair. Does that mean no military character can be a brunette ever again?

I'm always a bit boggled to see people taking the Kirk thing seriously when it's only been Rodney who called him that and we're not seriously taking our character analysis from Rodney McKay are we? I thought they were being so over obvious with the we're being ironic anvils last season that I was becoming honestly insulted that they thought I was so stupid I wouldn't get it. I have my serious problems with Sheppard and he'll never be one of my favorites but being a "player" isn't one of those problems.

I'm not too happy about the Teyla/Sheppard thing, but that's because I think she's too good for him, not because she's too young. They've already contradicted the pre-season one bios in other respects, so I'm not particularly buying Teyla as early 20s just based on that. Based on RL's appearance, I wouldn't really buy Teyla as younger than 25.

jenks
January 16th, 2007, 01:55 PM
Other than the cheesy Weir stuff I thought it was a really great episode, a fair bit better than I was expecting.

Not sure what to make of the ending, I'm just going to put that down as something that was going on in Rodneys head.

I can't believe Ronon went to Earth but we didn't get to see it!

leelakin
January 16th, 2007, 01:59 PM
They should have been *showing* us all this time that Rodney & Carson were best friends, but they were too busy rewriting their own glory days so that this time the geek did get to hang out with the cool and popular crowd.
Ugh, my thoughts exactly! Heck, those two were already friends before The Rising and I wondered why there were no real buddy moments for them *at all* (not counting when they were interacting as doctor and patient). Then again, when have we seen Carson outside of his usual infirmary-care-role? Not often. *sigh*
Have you seen Paul McGillion in "See Grace Fly"? That man is an amazing actor, he could've added SO much.

...I still can't wrap my head around the exploding tumours, lol. Can such a tiny piece of organic material REALLY blow up like that? Like being in that organ box and then *whoa, 5 meter radius fireball*?

venus1978
January 16th, 2007, 02:01 PM
ok i think i'm in shock, i knew it was coming but it was still shocking but very very good. this episode def got the full range of emotions from me

i wasnt keen on the end scene of mckay talking to carson tho, also that no one from sga1 seems to hang out with him

jenks
January 16th, 2007, 02:03 PM
Why are people still calling it 3x14?

caty
January 16th, 2007, 02:09 PM
Quick question:

Am I the only one who didn't really see the whole Rodney and Carson being best friends thing? Yes, I always gathered that they were friends, but it always seemed to me like Rodney was closer to John than to Carson.

*shrug*:confused:

No, I was a bit surprised by that, too.. Rodney and Sheppard always get across as the closest thing to best friends than anybody else.. But in Sunday, they aimed at Ronon/Sheppard and Carson/Rodney which IMHO they only did to have the scene at the end.. I don't deny that Carson and Rodney were good friends, btu this really came out of nowhere..


Can I respectfully request that we keep the character-bashing of this nature out of the ep discussion thread? If you want to make sweeping generalisations about Sheppard's relationships that verge on insinuating paedophilia then kindly take it to the appropriate anti thread or the STAKS thread.

You take the words out of my mouth, Ali!

It is so annoying that you get the Sheppard bashing in almost every thread you go to right now. It is beyond ridiculous and beyond annoying and should be discussed in a "I hate Sheppard for everything he is and does"-thread rather than here :(

Anjirika
January 16th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Second half.



14 hours earlier

Rodney in infirmary wearing a robe. Rodney scolding 2 junior scientists that we now know are Dr Houston and Dr Watson. They were sent on a routine cataloging assignment but they activated an alien device. Dr Houston (female scientist): But you did that. Rodney: I can fix it, you canít. My 4 year old niece is smarter than you. You need to be more careful. Carson: Rodney. Rodney calms down. Ok, ok. Take tomorrow off. Dr. Houston: We were. Itís the mandatory rest day. Rodney looks at Carson. Carson mimes fishing. Rodney turns away mumbles: Oh great.

Door of botany lab. Rodney goes in. Calls for Katie. Katie: I have to monitor these ferns. Could have the cure to leukemia. Rodney: I need an excuse to break those fishing plans with Carson. I canít conceive of a more tortuous, unappealing way to spend time. Katie: Why did you agree? Rodney: It was a month ago. I thought something would come up so I wouldnít have to go. But nothing did. Can take you out to lunch? Kaite: No I have to stay with the ferns. Rodney: Iíll get lunch and bring it back here. Katie: You want to baby sit ferns with me? Rodney: Yes, as opposed to fishing with Carson.

Mess. Rodney has two lunches. Sees Elizabeth and Hot Science Guy at table. Hmm. Carson comes in. Carson: Ah, great minds think alike. I've come for snacks, too. Rodney has long story about day off plans. Rodney: We spend so little time together I don't know if we're even a couple. I told Katie Iíd spend the day with her. Carson: All right Rodney. Tell Katie I said hello. Carson walks out with a sandwich, an orange and a bottle of water.

Botany lab. Katie: Didnít think we had a chance. Cadman made you kiss me. Then you avoided me for months. I understand how you didnít want to think about it. But youíve really made an effort to make time for me and itís been lovely. Rodney: Saw my little sister saw happy. So I was thinking Iíd like to get married. Rodney fumbles back and forth with Katie. Oh not to you. But I didnít mean it like that. I mean... Katie: I like you a lot. Rodney: I know and to be honest I find that baffling. When you get to know the real meÖ Katie: I know you. Thereís not a lot of subtext with you. Rodney: Sorry I ignored you. The two lean in...

Muffled sound of an explosion. Rodney runs off.

Back to Sheppard and Ronon with Radek at gym wall.

Rodney: Drs Houston and Watson were exposed to odd radiation. Carson examined them. They had a clean bill of health. So we thought we'd weíll figure out the device later. Big Mistake. Itís a weapon to battle the Wraith. Creates explosive tumors. Medical technobabble.

Whereís Dr. Watson? In the infirmary, one of the people caught in the explosion caused by Dr Houston.

2 hours earlier

Mess. Back to Carson and Rodney. Rodney brushing Carson off.

Carson walks down hallway lined with dining tables. People are playing chess. Radek is at a table playing chess with someone. Carson: Radek, want to go fishing? Radek: I would but today weíre playing for things. Lists things already won. Can we go next week? Carson: OK.

Balcony. Carson finds Lorne on balcony painting. Carson: Would you like to go fishing? Lorne: Maybe if you asked earlier, but I'm in the middle of this painting. Carson: That's ok.

Some general purpose room. Carson sees Biro. Sheís quite, um enthusiastic in her greeting. Carson doesnít ask her to go fishing.

Infirmary. Doctor Cole at some device. Sheís on call. Carson: Fishing trip is a bust, Iím going to catch up with paper work. Whatís wrong with you? Cole: Migraine. Took something but still have it. Carson: You should have called me. Cole: That fishing trip was all you were talking abut for 2 weeks. Carson: It's done with now. Go rest.

Later. Carson is wrapping a womanís foot. Carson: Donít play volleyball in sandals.

Muffled sound of explosion. Carson orders medical personnel. Runs out.

Gym. Carson accompanies Teyla on stretcher.

Infirmary: Carson operating on Teyla.

Science lab: Rodney calls for Dr. Watson.

Infirmary. Dr. Watson is on operating table.

Carson sends his assistant to tell him Watson's on the operating table.

Rodney: Radiation caused explosive tumor. Get everyone out. Carson: He canít move. Rodney: He doesnít have to move you do. Carson sends everyone out but other doctor stays. Carson: We have a tumor to remove.

Science lab. John: Carson used his authorization code to seal off floor. Carson refuses to leave his patient. Rodney: You can't seriously be considering operating on this guy. Arson: Exactly how much time do you think we have? Rodney: There's no way of knowing. Houston was infected at the same time and her tumor already exploded. Carson: No time to waste, then. Rodney: Look, this all really brave and all... John: What if there's strutural damage? What if the tower comes down with everyone in it? Carson: Sending him to the other side of the city is tantamount to murder. Rodney: The man is already dead. Carson: Like hell he is. John: I canít order you to stand down. Carson: Thatís right you canít. Have your men standing by I'll open access to the floor once I've extracted the tumor.

Elizabeth: How long has he been at it. John: About 10 minutes. We have an emergency crew standing by. Either way we're covered. Elizabeth: Canít you bypass his access code? Rodney: Itíll take at least a half hour. Elizabeth: This is crazy.

Infirmary: Carson has extracted the tumor. Puts it in carefully in a container. Carson: Colonel Sheppard: I've extracted the tumor. He enters his access code and opens door. John: He's on his way Just sit tight. Carson: Tell him I'll meet him half way. The sooner I get this out of my sight the better. Carson tells other doctor to finish up with Dr. Watson. He takes container. Walks slowly out of infirmary. Hazmat guy is hauling a containment unit. Carson gives unit to man. Turns and walks away.

Explosion happens. A fireball engulfs Carson from behind.

Carsonís room. Rodney is in a shirt and tie. Going thru Carsonís things. Picks of photo of himself and Carson in that field on the day Rodney got Cadman downloaded into his head. (Cadman, who was escorting them, must have taken it)

Ronon comes in. Are you ok?

Rodney: Not really.

Ronon: Need help?

Rodney: No. He didnít have a lot of stuff here.

Ronon: You sending all back home to his family?

Rodney: Yeah. I mean we will. They donít know yet. Weíll send his body back to earth and Iím going to tell his mother.

Rodney: I should have just gone fishing with him.

Ronon: Don't.

Rodney: If I had just gone fishing, if I had checked the machine, if I hadnít sent two junior scientists to catalog the labÖ

Ronon: Rodney, whatís done is done.

Rodney: I know and thatís whatís killing me.

Infirmary: Teyla is in bed. John comes in wearing his dress blues. Teyla wants to go to the memorial. John: Iíll get a wheel chair. Teyla: No I want to stand, as a testament to him. Teyla: How are you? John: It hasnít hit me yet. Iím not looking forward to when it does. Teyla: I feel a great sadness. I feel... Sheís has no other words. Teyla: A great sadness.

John helps Teyla up and they leave the infirmary.

Gateroom. The Gateroom is filled with people. There is a coffin draped in the Scottish flag is in the center of the room. Elizabeth steps up to the side of the coffin.

Elizabeth: We say goodbye to a lot of friends today. Our mission is a dangerous one. We lose people. A fact we are all painfully aware of. But Carson wasÖ I canít remember anyone coming to me with a complaint against him. Ever. He was a kind soul. He was a healer. And he will be very deeply missed. George Fabrica said: "Death comes to us all, but great achievements, they build a monument which shall endure until the sun grows cold.Ē Every single life Carson saved is a monument to him and that gives me great comfort.

Elizabeth looks up to the balcony and piper starts to play the bagpipes. The Gate dials. We look at all the faces of those closest to Carson.

John, Lorne and Radek walk to one side of the coffin. Rodney, Dr Cole and Ronon are on the other side. Elizabeth steps beside Teyla. The procession walks slowly thru the open wormhole as the bagpipe fades.

Out on a platform on the edge of Atlantis. Itís sunset. We see Rodney standing by himself, at the edge of the platform looking out over the ocean towards the horizon.

Rodney is wearing his uniform. We see Carson walk up to stand beside Rodney. Carson is wearing a simple black shirt.

Carson: How did go back on earth?

Rodney: It was, um, it was awful. Your family was amazing, though

Carson: Aye, they are. Good turnout?

Rodney: Oh, packed the church.

Carson: Oh, thatís good to hear.

Rodney: Itís not going to be the same here without you.

Carson: Oh, youíre telling me.

Rodney: You know, the universe is a big place. Who knows, maybe weíll bump into each other again.

Carson: Aye. Who knows?

Rodney: You were the closest thing to a best friend that I ever had. Iím really, really, sorry. I should have justÖ

Carson: Hey. This isnít your fault.

Rodney: Youíre just telling me what you want me to hear.

Carson: Well, thatís what best friends do sometimes. And in this case, it also happens to be true. Take care of yourself, Rondey.

Rodney raises his hand.

Rodney: Goodbye, Carson.

The camera pulls back over the ocean. Carson fades from Rodneyís side. The view continues to pull back until we see all of Atlantis and Rodney is no longer visible on the platform.


I hate it. I haven't even seen the episdoe yet, and I already hate it. You did a good job with the transcript though....the ending made me cry-hell, I'm still crying...what a crappy way to kill Carson off...the Micheal plot that we came up with would have been so much better.....and I vote for an AU Carson to come back.

jtjaforever
January 16th, 2007, 02:23 PM
I posted this on the S/W; Torri Wow & Weir threads and was encouraged to do so by a member of the Wow thread here also. I truly loved this ep from so many aspects which I will expound on in a different post, but I wanted to share this first.

Great day to all:)

Hi :weir: ,
I'm delurking to say two things, hope you don't mind.


1. I was sorry to hear the news about Torri's change of status on the show. I have really come to like what they have done w/fleshing out Weir this season and had hoped for more esp in terms of her relationship w/Teyla. I can only hope that the scene time that is given to Weir is quality despite of the lack of quanity. Sorry again about the upset this may have caused.


Do not read the second reason if you do not want to be spoiled concerning the ep Sunday:



2. Torri does an AWESOME job as Weir giving the eulogy at Carson's furneal. It is the best performance, IMO that I have seen from Torri(I did like her in TLG & RW). The emotion is that scene was just...just so real. I think it touched Torri not only as Wier, but on a personal level as Torri herself since the case is/was that they are such a tight knit group. Anyway these are just my POV.



I will now delurk. Thanks for your patience and kindness in my sharing. Take care all.
__________________

Linzi
January 16th, 2007, 02:34 PM
Wow, I wonder if some other people and I were watching the same episode. Talk about diverse opinions!

I thought this episode was masterfully done, certainly one of my favorites. I"m so sad to see Carson go, but I for one thought the way they did it was fantastic. And to put it into an episode where it sits in such stark contrast to the humor and "innocence" of a day off is brilliant.

Death is tragic, but when it happens so unexpectedly on what you think is a "normal" day, its even more so.

My emotions went from one end of the spectrum to the other (ROFL at Ronon's golf swing and crying at Carson's funeral)

So much good I can say about the ep, I could write a very long post, but I'll just keep it to saying Sunday sits right up there as one of my all time favorites.
Well said!!! :)

Blower'sGate
January 16th, 2007, 02:46 PM
I really liked the episode... except of course for the Carson part but still he died doing his job, but true the others could have gone fishing with him... we can't change the story... TPTB can bring him back sure cause it's Sci fi. I loved Beckett, I cried but I can live without him cause I prepared myself to the eventuallity a long time ago.

Now on the ships basis. WARNING ONLY FOR PEOPLE INTERESTED IN SHIPS AND THE WAY A JOHN/WEIR SHIPPER SEES THE EPISODE ( All fans who ship other pairings are welcome to comment on this, send me a message or anything lol, but don't threaten or kill me cause it's just one opinion among thousands ! ).
.
I posted this on the Shep/Weir ship thread but I thought since we're free to speak about ships on the episode thread I thought I should repost the same thing with a few corrections though.

I've watched Sunday without any expectations

Firstly, I thought Mike was really handsome, this guy definitely had something^^ *OMG COMPARING TO SIMON, HE's a GOD* And it was nice to see Elizabeth have some fun on her own, except she seemed not to want to go for it... why exactly? I guess we'll never know for sure and I'll assume that it's just because of her personnal rules against dating people under her command... True enough, but I thought about what Mike said to her being his bosses' boss...guess he found the reason why she could date him.

Secondly, I thought at first that when Ronon told John about the fact that he thought Teyla and him could...( or ever thought about having something with her ) and the "Meh" reaction he had led me to believe it was more like a "Why not". And especially considering the fact that just after that scene they go to the bomb site and John asks many times Beckett if she's gonna be alright, very concerned...

BUT ( there's always a but ), he's always concerned for the members of his team so that led me to rethink the scene between John and Ronon. We know now he's been married (OMG soo Jack) and that he's not interested in anyone in particular; that made me listen to the "Meh" reaction again and it can be intrepeted in many ways and the one I thought of might not be so true afterall, actually I still think Teyla's a friend period ( Even if she's attractive ) to him.

Now you can ask yourself why Ronon brought it up, maybe because like one of you guys said he wanted to see if the road was clear enough for him to make a move ( but we know Ronon... he's not ready -like he said- and that leads me to the Teyla scene where she talks about the feelings she has towards someone ( BUT WHO ?). Sure she said it wasn't one of her people, so we assume it's someone in Atlantis; of course it could be John but he's not the only one who isn't an Asuran, Ronon isn't either, he's from Sateda ! So nope... TpTb loves to mess with shipper fans period^^

And finally, the only high note for the sparky shipper is : The look mister Sheppard gave to Dr. Weir ( I suppose single again by the end of the episode ) again very concerned.... or maybe thinking that he possibly cares for someone more than he knows on the base ( up to interpretation ), even if it's a quick scene, it still counts in my opinion, and there's no other Shep/teyla scene till the end of the ep. AND Ronon and Teyla standing next to each other at the funeral is also a relatively good thing for the Ronon/Teyla shippers ( Go spanky ).

One last question : Why didn't Ronon ask John if he had a thing for or with Elizabeth ?

I didn't want to talk about the episode itself, because you guys told most of it IMO.
This episode is full of many things, I mostly talked about my pairing. It's the first time I've done it and I'm happy to have done so cause, I think shipping is an important part of the episodes in the Stargate Universe, and we should all be able to read in the episode discussion thread what all the fans that ship different pairings have to say, their observations, interpretations of what's shippy ( or not ! ).

with my best regards/

xxxxx

Yagami_Light
January 16th, 2007, 02:48 PM
In Sheppard's case, his marriage failure probably had something to do with another woman . . .or two. . .or three, going by his history.

What history is that? Maybe I'm watching a different show...

Teddybear
January 16th, 2007, 02:54 PM
:sheppardanime32: :beckettanime09: This episode was so sad, I really didn't know what was going to happen and that was a big shock. I'm mad at TPTB for having done that . Carson is such a nice character . Why did they do that ?
I liked the acting in this episode , Shep/Ronon, McKay/Beckett, Weir/Teyla and many other scenes.
The end was of course very moving .


Episode wouldn't have been too bad until the second half. I do prefer Teyla/Ronon to the Teyla/Shep thing. The guy is old enough to be her father, but then, Shep likes them young. He would just toss Teyla away for the next bombshell blonde that stepped through the gate anyway. No, I'm not a big Sheppard fan.

Killing Carson was just dumb. Makes me wonder just what they are smoking up in Vancouver these days. Maybe Sheppard should have poofed in the great exploding tumor of doom.

I disagree with your point of view , the tone you're employing would suggest that Sheppard is a sexual perverse only interested in female teenagers . In my opinion that's completely out of character .

I must say that I already found totally unfair for Sheppard to be "accused "of having a kirking attitude . I'm french and at first I didn't understand the meaning of this expression, by deduction I understood that it was because in some episodes he had been attracted by pretty young ladies and apparently certain people are shocked . But why a handsome single man in his late thirties would not be attracted by pretty ladies ? Do you know men who never rise the eyes when they see a pretty girl?
It doesn't mean that it's a lack of respect for them and it doesn't mean that he have sex with them all the time . In that case , if you watch carefully at all the episodes from S1 to S3 , you can notice that McKay , who is not unsensitive to pretty young ladies too , should be also accused of kirking .

As to the age of Teyla , I think it doesn't really matter , a guy can be older than her girlfriend and inversely , but it's really sure that Sheppard is not old enough to be his father , and surely , he is not the kind of guy to toss Teyla away for the next bombshell blonde that stepped through the gate .

Effectively you do not like Sheppard , and you have perfectly the right to , we all have the characters that we like or dislike , but I can't help saying nothing when I have the feeling of unfair and unjustified statements about a character I consider as a nice human being.
Last thing , I don't understand your sentence :"Maybe Sheppard should have poofed in the great exploding tumor of doom", but I have the feeling it's not really kind for Sheppard. :)

LoveConquers
January 16th, 2007, 03:00 PM
I absolutely loved this episode. I think someone else put it best when they said it was their favorite, yet most hated ep this season. Those are my exact feelings about this one. Character-based eps and angst are my two absolute favorite things in a story, and this episode had it in spades. I got butterflies, I laughed, I held my breath, I gasped, I cried...how can you go through so many emotions in a single hour and not be affected? This was classic storytelling, beautifully done.

*I loved Teyla's confession at the beginning, and I loved Teyla in earth clothes. I loved the idea of her having a friend outside of the team as well, one she is comfortable enough to confide in and joke around with. She needs this.

*I loved Teyla encouraging Elizabeth to go out with Mike. Too cute!

*Carson was just adorable, teasing Elizabeth and telling her she smelled good and Elizabeth's retort to "shut up" as she walked away. LOL!

*I loved Elizabeth's conflict with Mike. I don't like the beard, but I really enjoyed how he was able to charm her and get her to let her guard down, if only for a little while. I hope it opens up more for her in terms of relationships.

*I absolutely died at the John and Ronon scenes. First, I loved seeing them paired up again like we saw in Ark. I loved Ronon and Teyla trying desperately to get out of golf, and Ronon's ability to whack the ball without even trying. I love that Jim was impressed, but John wouldn't admit it. I laughed so hard at Ronon's idea of a game, and I have to agree with John's suspicions that he was making it up to make him look stupid. It worked, in an adorable and hilarious way, it totally worked.

*I won't dwell on it, but I found John and Ronon's discussion of Teyla to be quite shippy. So my little heart was happy with that scene. :) Remember, they weren't just talking about liking her, but making a move, or in their words, "When are you going to 'you know'?" LOL!
And John being married before, wasn't expecting that one! But I loved the backstory on both John and Ronon. And Ronon, still not over his girlfriend after being on the run for however many years and being in Atlantis for a year and a half. Wow, that poor man needs a hug. Or....something.

*Carson just wanting to go fishing and no one having the time to go with him.

*Carson refusing to leave the male scientist, regardless of the danger.

*I was not expecting Carson to die. I did not believe the rumors of the Scottish-Flag draped casket from so many months ago, and I still have trouble believing it. His death was shocking and heartbreaking. The memorial was emotional and awful and beautiful all at the same time. I lost it when the bagpipes started to play. I don't want to believe he's really gone and can only hope they will do something to bring him back, beyond basic flashbacks. I don't even care if their reason is predictable Sci-Fi, I'll still take it. I just want him back. :(

*The infirmary scene between John and Teyla was so emotional and beautifully played.

*Ronon coming to Rodney and talking to him. If anyone understands guilt in death, it's him.

*Rodney's goodbye to Carson. What a beautiful tribute to a wonderful character who will be sorely missed.

So many emotions in this episode. I loved it.

florence
January 16th, 2007, 03:02 PM
Just a few thoughts about Sunday (I didn't read everything that has already been said)

It's the first time a SGA episode makes me cry...

I think it was an excellent episode and if Carson really had to die, that was beautifully done IMO. He died while saving everyone. He was a hero. I'll miss him greatly...

I didn't really like the "3 hours earlier", "14 hours earlier" and so on. After a while, it was a bit confusing.

Teyla having some fun time with Elizabeth and this other woman (sorry, I didn't catch her name)? Girl power! No seriously, it was nice to see that she had made friends inside the city.

Elizabeth having a date with that guy? Okay, why not... I don't like the beard but I guess he was kinda cute. (Just a little something: Evian is now exported to the Pegasus Galaxy! *is proud to be French*)

John and Ronon playing golf? FUNNIEST THING EVER! Stick fighting (I would like to see John winning at this game some time...) then chatting: I love those two boys! (Just a little something: John was reading a surf magazine... WHEN WILL WE SEE HIM SURFING FCOL?!?)

Lorne painting? OMG! This guy is too good to be true! Zelenka as a chess master, betting for Swedish massage? Excellent!

Rodney was very cute with Katie. I loved him in this scene (and I loved him even more in the next scenes).

And now, the end: Rodney in Carson's room... God, I absolutely loved him in this scene! (and coming from me, it means a lot).
OMG! John in uniform! If I hadn't been so sad at that time, I could have fallen from my chair!
The speech by Elizabeth wasn't necessary IMO. There are times when you don't need words... I don't even remember what she said because that's the moment I started crying.
Then they take the coffin through the gate...
And the final scene with Rodney and Carson... absolutely lovely.

All in all, and in spite of Carson's death (or maybe because of it?), it will be an episode I'll remember for a long time.

Celcool
January 16th, 2007, 03:10 PM
Killing Carson like that doesn't make sense, to me it seemed fake and a joke the writers bestowed on us. I thought I'd manage without crying but couldn't hold it in at the end anymore. I can't believe they let him go in this way (making him like no one cared about him when there was never any indication to this in any of the previous episodes) and that we won't see the character anymore. Poor Carson.

If it weren't for Carson dying, then I'd enjoy this episode but this ruined it for me, along with the news of making Elizabeth a recurring character. Again, a decision that makes no sense, if only someone explained all this to us. :rolleyes:

Other than that I especially loved Elizabeth's scenes, she's so lovely, we got to see the sexy, ready-for-a-date side of her, nice clothes! :)

Also the John/Ronan scenes were okay, they'd be funny if I didn't know what was gonna happen.

All in all, an episode that was certainly different but not necessarily to my liking. At times it seemed too unnatural, if that even says anything. Maybe even (some of) the actors weren't that into it... I have no idea.

ste
January 16th, 2007, 03:25 PM
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

{Mod SNip}

on a lighter note, in the last scene when the camera is zooming out, i noticed what looks like rust on the side, now you would think the Ancients could come up with an alloy thay wont rust, or at the least a good paint, hahahahaha

Domesticated Equine
January 16th, 2007, 03:27 PM
Yeah, because such "comebacks" are always so much fun ...not.
If they pull a "Ford" on him or bring him "back" like Janet... that would make it even worse for me, seriously. And I would feel like they used Paul to boost ratings after kicking him out so pitifully.
Just my opinion though.

You know, I do agree with you. I think Beckett got a good send-off and further appearences, unless done extremely well, would just diminish it.


Anyway, it seems to me that the majority of the people who don't like the episode do so for reasons relating to Beckett's death: That it happened at all or how it was done. This is completely understandable since the death of a major character is bound to polarize fans. I was quite pleased with how they dealt with the death since I'm not too deeply attached to Beckett to get outraged by his being written off, yet care enough about him to be moved by the death and the following scenes.

But what do people think about the beginning of the episode? I think we had something of an aberration for SGA: A light episode focussing almost exclusively on character interaction with minimal plot. We got background for some of the characters, a lot of information concerning their relationships (romantic and otherwise) as well as numerous funny moments.

Personally, I think the episode really succeeded in both bringing the funny and allowing us to get to know the characters much more than we usually do. Furthermore, the show managed to balance the funny with the dark well, ditching the jokes when a more serious approach was needed. SGA doesn't always manage this, as evidenced by e.g. Irrestistible.

I used to have zero interest for Ronan, but I was entertained with his scenes with Sheppard and could see myself caring for Ronan if he continues to be written like this. Weir's scenes weren't all that great because of Mike although I do think she handled herself well. Tayla's another character I'm usually not invested in, but I really liked her scene with Weir.

Rodney, who's mine and evidently the writer's favourite as well got a strong outing. Hewlett got to show a good range of emotions since Mckay was everywhere: Disciplining his underlings, "wooing" Katie and bumbling with the marriage-thing, wieseling out of the fishing trip, finding the reason behind the explosion, blaming himself after Beckett's death and finally coming somewhat to terms with it in the final scene.

Speaking of Beckett, I do think this is was a strong episode for him aswell. The defining moment for him is when he finds out what's wrong with Dr. Watson and takes control of the situation. The look on his face when he tells McKay that leaving Watson to die is tantamount to murder and confirms that Shepherd can't order him to stand down is what really sells the scene for me.

On another note, I noticed on second viewing that Watson asked Beckett to take a look at his chest earlier on. Had Beckett done it, it's likely the tumour would have been noticed and no one would have died. Obviously, I think Beckett's refusal was perfectly reasonable and he couldn't have known what would happen or that Watson would not go see the other doctor after all (so I assume). Sometimes things just go wrong and no one person is clearly at fault. Should McKay have investigated the device himself? Should Watson and Houston been more careful with the device? Should McKay have started analyzing the device immediately after the radiation exposure? Should Beckett have taken a look at Watson the next day or should Watson have gone to the other doctor? I think the people made reasonable choices in their situations, but sometimes that's not good enough and you can't go back and fix them.

Finally, I think some of the minor characters really got to shine as well. Zelenka and Lorne interacted well with Beckett and got to show a bit of a new side of themselves. Katie was quite nice with McKay and their relationship could be interesting if handled well. The asian surgeon (whose name I don't know) handled the high-pressure situation with Beckett expertly and didn't waste time convincing him not to try to force her to leave. Have we seen her before?

Arctic Goddess
January 16th, 2007, 03:40 PM
Consider this: Vancouver legalizes the use of marijuana in 2004. This is around the same time that major and rather odd decisions were being made about Stargate. The trend continues today. Coincidence? I think not.

Domesticated Equine
January 16th, 2007, 03:44 PM
I can't believe they let him go in this way (making him like no one cared about him when there was never any indication to this in any of the previous episodes) and that we won't see the character anymore. Poor Carson.



I didn't get this feeling at all. While everyone refused to go fishing with Beckett they all had understandable reasons and were quite happy to chat with him. I'm sure all the characters will be wishing they had taken his offer now.

Besides, when Beckett decided to stay and operate on Watson, you really see how much the others care for him. McKay and Sheppard do their best to get Carson out of harm's way and would rather let Watson die than lose their friend. Not to speak of everyone's feelings after the death. I think it was clear that everyone cared about him.

While I don't think Weir's funeral speech was the best ever, I think she was spot on in mentioning that no one ever complained about Beckett. I don't have a hard believing that he was one of the if not the most likeable person on the base (fear of needles aside).

xfkirsten
January 16th, 2007, 03:49 PM
I didn't get this feeling at all. While everyone refused to go fishing with Beckett they all had understandable reasons and were quite happy to chat with him. I'm sure all the characters will be wishing they had taken his offer now.

Agreed - and I think that was one of the things we were supposed to get out of this episode. No one did take the time to go fishing with him - they all had other plans (and in Rodney's case, it was the act of fishing itself that he disliked, not Carson). And I think it was really Rodney that taught us the lesson here when he went out of his way to avoid going fishing - take the time to be with the people you love, because they can be taken away so suddenly.

Celcool
January 16th, 2007, 03:51 PM
I didn't get this feeling at all. While everyone refused to go fishing with Beckett they all had understandable reasons and were quite happy to chat with him. I'm sure all the characters will be wishing they had taken his offer now.
Not so much understandable the way I see it. It's quite obvious, really. Rodney, John and Ronan certainly didn't have any good excuse. Rodney was desperately trying to get rid of him and John and Ronan turned him down flat.

Edit: Rodney disliked fishing, that's true, but he also said that he doesn't want to listen to Carson talking about impossibly boring subjects. It's not about the fishing, it could also be about spending time with a person you're friends with.

florence
January 16th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Not so much understandable the way I see it. It's quite obvious, really. Rodney, John and Ronon certainly didn't have any good excuse. Rodney was desperately trying to get rid of him and John and Ronon turned him down flat.
Maybe but that's how life works. You've never had regrets? Telling yourself you should have done this, said that, spent more time with someone, less time with someone else?
We all make choices. For good or bad reasons. And in the end, we all have to deal with the consequences. No doubt everyone on Atlantis will regret that day but I'm not going to blame any one of them because they decided not to go with Carson.

Yagami_Light
January 16th, 2007, 04:01 PM
Carson Beckett - may flights of angels wing thee to thy rest.

On a side note... the Ancients had the worst friggin "advanced" technology ever. Seems like the side effect for touching more than half of their crap is a creatively inane death.

Celcool
January 16th, 2007, 04:02 PM
Maybe but that's how life works. You've never had regrets? Telling yourself you should have done this, said that, spent more time with someone, less time with someone else?
We all make choices. For good or bad reasons. And in the end, we all have to deal with the consequences. No doubt everyone on Atlantis will regret that day but I'm not going to blame any one of them because they decided not to go with Carson.
I don't blame any of the characters, really, they didn't write what they're gonna say. ;)

Domesticated Equine
January 16th, 2007, 04:02 PM
Not so much understandable the way I see it. It's quite obvious, really. Rodney, John and Ronan certainly didn't have any good excuse. Rodney was desperately trying to get rid of him and John and Ronan turned him down flat.

Turning down someone's invitation to a fishing trip doesn't mean you don't like the person. John and Ronan already had plans and John especially seemed to be enthusiastic about teaching golf. It was also made clear that Rodney turned Beckett down because he dislikes fishing, not Beckett himself. He probably should have gone through with the trip since they had made plans so much earlier, but that's Rodney for you. And like xfkirsten so eloquently put, that is the lesson both the characters and we the viewer should take from this: Spend time with your loved one because you never know which chance could be your last.

Celcool
January 16th, 2007, 04:09 PM
And like xfkirsten so eloquently put, that is the lesson both the characters and we the viewer should take from this: Spend time with your loved one because you never know which chance could be your last.
They had to kill off Carson in order to convey that message. Hmm. Still I didn't enjoy how they handled this.

ax-protege-l3
January 16th, 2007, 04:16 PM
I actually liked this episode. :) It wasn't all cheery but if Beckett was going to be killed off on the show, I think that the manner in which he died was very Carson-like.

Not abandoning the show. Not over Beckett and not over any other cast changes that might be made in the future. I'd like to see where all of this is actually going. :)

nonniemous
January 16th, 2007, 04:18 PM
They had to kill off Carson in order to convey that message. Hmm. Still I didn't enjoy how they handled this.

As if we don't get plenty of opportunities to learn those lessons in real life. Killing off Carson mostly teaches me that TPTB can't be trusted and I really shouldn't bother with their show any more.

Pegasus_SGA
January 16th, 2007, 04:20 PM
I know people are upset by this episode, and i'll probably get slammed for it somewhere down the line, but i've never been one to shy away so i'm jumping in with two feet.

I actually loved this episode, for me it had everything I wanted to see apart from Carson... but i'll save that until the end.

From my perspective there was an inordinate amount of things that the fans have requested to see in SGA, in particular how the team interact on their off duty hours, do they spend any time together. Some people have said that some episodes have felt forced when team bonding was thrust upon them.. and they are entitled to their views. For me this episode showed just how much everyone cares for each other.

The Good points


We had girlie talk between Teyla and Elizabeth (which some fans wanted to see)
I laughed my head off when Sheppard was trying to get Teyla to play golf with him and Ronon, and Ronon tried to head Teyla off at the pass, hehehe.
Loved the pat on the arm from Teyla to Ronon as a thank you for the heads up.
Then we had the Golf game :D *Thwack* ROFL, loved it.
We had poor Carson, desperate to go fishing and nobody wanted to go, bless him he went everywhere to find a partner.
Loved that Atlantis has a chess tournamount *g*
We had Ronon and Sheppard fighting :D *fight to the death* Hehehehe
We had Rodney trying to make a date with Katie Brown and him stumbling over the marriage proposal.(very sweet)
We had Weir actually relaxing and enjoying herself for once.
We had Lorne painting :D
We had Zelenka in the chess club playing for rations hehehe
Carson holding Teyla's handBut most of all we had Carson meeting and speaking with everyone on his last ep :D. PM did a great job with this, even down to the smallest details of him getting excited that he and Rodney were going fishing was so sweet :D

I loved the fact that Carson wouldn't leave his patient. He knew the dangers to himself, but he didn't want to risk anyone getting hurt and it just goes to show how self sacrificing the character is and would do anything to save his patients... just as Janet did in SG1 *stops self compaing the two*

What broke my heart in this was how everyone reacted differently. Teyla was at a loss for words, for Sheppard, "It hasn't hit me yet" packed a punch in my stomach. Rodney was so filled with remorse it broke my heart *sniff* especially the ending where he's packing up Carson's belongings and finds the photograph of the two of them from duet.. just as Ronon came in to check if he was ok, which was a very sweet moment. And when Rodney began feeling guilty, Ronon simply said, 'Don't'. it was just enough to get my bottom lip quivering.

But what sent me over the edge was the bagpipes. The whole of the gate room was deathly quiet (no pun intended) and then the bagpipes started playing. It was so serene. Then, as the camera panned around to get everyones reactions, you could feel how much they were hurting, because in a sense they HAD lost their friend....

The ending couldn't have been more perfect (imo) it wasn't corny or cliche as i've heard some people say. You'd be surprised what you think, feel and see when someone who's close to you has died. So, I think having the last moments of Rodney alone and then the two of them together at the very end was beutifully done. McKay is going to have lots of issues over this. And I hope that next week, this isn't all going to swept under the carpet as if Carson meant nothing. We need to see the impact this has on the characters and not brushed aside.

The Bad

Not much I have to say... I didn't want carson to go at all, and I hope TPTB or the writers, whomever is responsible for letting Beckett/PM leave should take on board what people have said on the various threads. Please bring him back, have an alternate him come back to SGA, do a time travel thing, have an alternate universe setting and bring him back then. Or do what you're good at, press the reset button and cancel this episode out.

Okay rant over....

This episode showed how everyone on SGA can work together and for each of them to have sufficient lines, and character development each..so why did it take PM's leaving to bring this to the foreground....

Okay, gonna go watch the ep again to see what I missed.

Domesticated Equine
January 16th, 2007, 04:21 PM
Edit: Rodney disliked fishing, that's true, but he also said that he doesn't want to listen to Carson talking about impossibly boring subjects. It's not about the fishing, it could also be about spending time with a person you're friends with.

This is actually a better point, and it does put Rodney's claim that Carson was his best friend further into question. Even so, you can find someone a bit boring but still care hugely for them. Especially when you consider all the life/death situations the characters have been through, a strong bond is pretty much inevitable.

Willow'sCat
January 16th, 2007, 04:28 PM
This is actually a better point, and it does put Rodney's claim that Carson was his best friend further into question. Even so, you can find someone a bit boring but still care hugely for them. Especially when you consider all the life/death situations the characters have been through, a strong bond is pretty much inevitable.
Actually I think McKay said Carson was the closest thing he had ever had to a best friend, I think you need to understand McKay to understand what he meant. ;) Also it buys you into the whole "I should have done or said that" that a lot of people go through when someone close to them dies without warning. I thought it was played just right.

I didn't say it before but David Hewlett was superb in this episode, so was Paul McGillion, in fact most of the cast gave 110% to their parts. See what good material can do for an actor's performance, any actor. ;)

theonebluegecko
January 16th, 2007, 04:33 PM
I have to say, out of every show I have ever watched where a main character died, Carson's was the best death. The episode nicely centered around him and his connections to the other character and he died saving another's life, I think that it was he would have wanted.

Although it was super sad, this is one of my top favorite Stargate Atlantis episodes.

Domesticated Equine
January 16th, 2007, 04:38 PM
As if we don't get plenty of opportunities to learn those lessons in real life.

You can learn about different things in both real life and through entertainment. I'll quote Eric Walker (http://greatsfandf.com/some-musings/musing1.php) on his opinion about fiction since he puts it much it more eloquently than I ever could. The same applies just as well to television shows:



We read fiction to discover (or be reminded of) what people think and feel and do in various circumstances--to gain better appreciations of what it means to be human and of ways to deal with Life, the Universe, and Everything. Fiction enriches us, expands us, augments our lives: it allows us to vicariously live many lives, to feel and experience the thoughts and emotions of hundreds, thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of persons we are not and never will be, to experience feeling and thinking in ways not our own, often very much not our own.

Ruined_puzzle
January 16th, 2007, 04:40 PM
I'm done with this show. DONE. Thank god there are other better written shows out there. Heroes, BSG. Bye, bye SGA.

Blower'sGate
January 16th, 2007, 04:53 PM
I forgot to add in my preview thoughts how actually I loved that episode. And you're right one of the best death of a main character on a tv show

But with things to come I won't follow the show the way I used to which means I'll expect less.

Satertek
January 16th, 2007, 04:55 PM
The last few minutes ruined this episode in so many ways I can barely recall most of the episode. First off, this episode (the last 10 minutes anyway) COMPLETELY ripped off an episode of Grey's Anatomy (It's the End of the World, Episode 2x25-26), stealing away any emotion from the ending scenes. The only difference was that it was an explosive tumor instead of an explosive rocket shell. I was just left with a cheated feeling at the end, expecting some type of deus ex machina that never arrived.

Maybe this episode was enjoyable if you hadn't seen that episode of Grey's Anatomy, but it completely killed it for me.

Now I'm used to watching shows where characters are frequently and unexpectedly killed off (eg. any Joss Whedon's show), but this didn't feel right and didn't hit me in any way emotionally (other than anger at the writers for being unoriginal) as it was intended to.

ToasterOnFire
January 16th, 2007, 05:01 PM
I thought it was a good episode, though not as strong as I was hoping. All of the little character moments made this episode poignant but I thought the circumstances of Carson's death weren't written well.


Good:

-Great character moments. Shep and Ronon golfing (water hazard, ha!) and Ronon opening a bit about Sateda, Shep and Teyla in the infirmary, and Ronon and Rodney talking in the end. And tons of little bits of character info, from Shep's earlier marriage to Lorne's painting to Zelenka whipping everyone at chess.

-Reaction to Carson's death wasn't cheesy or cliched, it felt real.

Bad:

-Wow, exploding tumors of DEATH. Really, what a crappy way to write off Beckett. I'm having flashbacks of the flaming helicopter of DOOM from ER... :S Besides being medically and scientifically impossible (genetically imprinting radiation? wha?), the whole ending with Beckett locking out everyone and deciding to carry the tumor out himself felt so overly heroic as to be ridiculous. And damn straight Shep could have ordered Beckett around considering the tumors were a security risk.
It would have been so better to have Michael come back and kill Carson in an act of vengeance. This just didn't have the impact it could have.

-Moving back and forth in time that often in an episode didn't work for me. IMO, it would have been better to have one timeline and cut back and forth between the characters. The way it was done felt overly jarring.

-I was rather meh toward Weir's date. The Rodney and Katie scene was quite cute, but I find a relationship between them to be rather bland.

-The moments between Carson and Rodney would have been so much more poignant if TPTB had actually written in the friendship over the three seasons. Since it was neglected the final scene wasn't nearly as powerful as it could have been.

-I was hoping for more of an Elizabeth/Teyla scene than "Hey, I've got a hot date, can we cancel? kthxbye!"


Also, I've seen some comments about how Jewel Strait is one of the pallbearers in the end, but isn't that the doctor who was earlier complaining about a migraine? I can't tell for sure.

sgeureka
January 16th, 2007, 05:02 PM
...I still can't wrap my head around the exploding tumours, lol. Can such a tiny piece of organic material REALLY blow up like that? Like being in that organ box and then *whoa, 5 meter radius fireball*?Well, I know one tiny bit of ZPM material in "Zero Hour" blew up real good, so I guess if you add a little scifi twist like nuclear fusion in biological cells (LOL) it works perfectly.


On another note, I noticed on second viewing that Watson asked Beckett to take a look at his chest earlier on. Had Beckett done it, it's likely the tumour would have been noticed and no one would have died. Obviously, I think Beckett's refusal was perfectly reasonable and he couldn't have known what would happen or that Watson would not go see the other doctor after all (so I assume).Good one. I'll pay attention to that scene.

Completely off-topic, but I want to say it none the less:

I disagree with your point of view , the tone you're employing would suggest that Sheppard is a sexual perverse only interested in female teenagers . In my opinion that's completely out of character .

I must say that I already found totally unfair for Sheppard to be "accused "of having a kirking attitude . I'm french and at first I didn't understand the meaning of this expression, by deduction I understood that it was because in some episodes he had been attracted by pretty young ladies and apparently certain people are shocked . But why a handsome single man in his late thirties would not be attracted by pretty ladies ? Do you know men who never rise the eyes when they see a pretty girl?
It doesn't mean that it's a lack of respect for them and it doesn't mean that he have sex with them all the time .I guess it's a cultural thing. My sister has been living and working in France for the past two years, and she told me on Christmas (which she spent at home here) that she finds it surprising that no German men ever try to flirt with her, which she feels is odd (because seemingly French guys do that all the time). I just replied that I'd hate the idea of icky old guys flirting with me continuously, and the only way to stop them is to go to every guy and ask them to please-stop-invading-my-privacy-I-don't-want-to-be-part-of-your-sexual-fantasies. (:)) Just the idea makes me really uncomfortable.

expendable_crewman
January 16th, 2007, 05:06 PM
As if we don't get plenty of opportunities to learn those lessons in real life. Killing off Carson mostly teaches me that TPTB can't be trusted and I really shouldn't bother with their show any more.That's an interesting point. IMO, the viewer has the greater balance of the power by way of THE remote. Said power may not impact the show in question (or any show, for that matter) but it grants the remote-wielder 100% control over his or her viewing experience and one doesn't even have to get off the couch.

Me, I'm glad to have seen this ep. I thought it was well done.

I almost wish I didn't know Carson was going to die. The knowledge made me nitpicky. I figured if he was going to die, the character should go in style, so I watched the first time looking for that, and that only.

On second viewing, I followed the story as it was given to me and I found the characterizations rich, the story's style engaging, and the build-up to Carson's death poignant.

I didn't cry when he died because, like I said, I knew it was coming. I cried watching the characters react to it: Rodney and Ronon in Carson's room, Sheppard in the gate room, Teyla's "I feel a great sadness," Weir's eulogy, and the scene on the pier.

The death itself occurring as Carson was doing what he always does when he has a patient, I'm not sure how I feel about that. That's a good thing, btw, because it means I'll be thinking about the ep for some while.

Rodney on the pier with Carson, that clicked for me. Can't say why. Liked it. Loved it. Won't forget it.

Pegasus_SGA
January 16th, 2007, 05:10 PM
I thought it was a good episode, though not as strong as I was hoping.
Bad:

-Wow, exploding tumors of DEATH. Really, what a crappy way to write off Beckett. I'm having flashbacks of the flaming helicopter of DOOM from ER... :S Besides being medically and scientifically impossible (genetically imprinting radiation? wha?), the whole ending with Beckett locking out everyone and deciding to carry the tumor out himself felt so overly heroic as to be ridiculous. And damn straight Shep could have ordered Beckett around considering the tumors were a security risk.
It would have been so better to have Michael come back and kill Carson in an act of vengeance. This just didn't have the impact it could have.

-Moving back and forth in time that often in an episode didn't work for me. IMO, it would have been better to have one timeline and cut back and forth between the characters. The way it was done felt overly jarring.

Also, I've seen some comments about how Jewel Strait is one of the pallbearers in the end, but isn't that the doctor who was earlier complaining about a migraine? I can't tell for sure.

I agree with those points you made, I really need to watch it again, without analyzing it to death (again no pun intended) and just watch it as I see it, but I agree the whole exploding tumours was a tad...bizarre. I also found the witching back and forth very annoying, i kept forgetting what was going on when and it did distract me. Would have been much better if it was just played out straight.

I'll have to check the credits on that cos i'm not sure

Ella
January 16th, 2007, 05:11 PM
I guess it's a cultural thing. My sister has been living and working in France for the past two years, and she told me on Christmas (which she spent at home here) that she finds it surprising that no German men ever try to flirt with her, which she feels is odd (because seemingly French guys do that all the time). I just replied that I'd hate the idea of icky old guys flirting with me continuously, and the only way to stop them is to go to every guy and ask them to please-stop-invading-my-privacy-I-don't-want-to-be-part-of-your-sexual-fantasies. () Just the idea makes me really uncomfortable.

I don't think it is a cultural thing. I'm American. I even live in rural highly religious America. The idea that a single man sleeping with one women in three years after knowing her for months and flirting with two others makes him a man-whore kind of appalls me.

duckedtapedemon
January 16th, 2007, 05:16 PM
I thought it was great, and very well done. Almost seemed to me to be Scrubs meets Atlantis (minus the narration) with the 3 or 4 different viewpoints and being told backwards. (The medical situation helped a lot too.) The ghost bit at the end was also a nice touch.

I'm not saying make every episode (or another one really, want to make this one special) in this style by any means, but it was a great way to say goodbye to Beckett.

silence
January 16th, 2007, 05:24 PM
Very good episode. Too bad they used it for what they did.
Many nice points.. lots of Weir, some Teyla, even Ronon.

I liked it a lot.

But i can't distance this from all i read and that is bringing this ep down....
I wish they ended it in any other way then one they did.

Alipeeps
January 16th, 2007, 05:27 PM
Also, I've seen some comments about how Jewel Strait is one of the pallbearers in the end, but isn't that the doctor who was earlier complaining about a migraine? I can't tell for sure.

The comments made were suggesting that the dr with the migraine (who was indeed one of the pallbearers at the end) was the character that will be played by Jewel Staite next season.. the suggestion being that TPTB were very heartlessly introducing the character already, before Carson was even cold in his grave!, and that she would return next season, being played by a different actress (the aforementioned Ms Staite).

However, seeing as the doctor on call (which this character was) was referred to earlier in the episode as being a Dr Cole and Jewel's character is to be called Dr Keller, I don't think this is actually the case. I think this is a case of surmise on behalf of one or two viewers.

Fifer
January 16th, 2007, 05:31 PM
I'm not an emotional guy but thats me just watched the memorial scene for the 3rd time and i still find it incredibly difficult to sit through. I don't know if its a Scottish thing but hearing the piper and seeing the saltire draped over a coffin is unbelievably powerful and really, really tugs at the heart strings.

When watching the memorial i can't help but be reminded of the funerals of some of the Scottish soldiers in the British Army. In the earlier days of that war you would see the piper piping the coffin out of the church with assorted military uniforms not too far from sight, just like in that episode. Very, very uncomfortable viewing and i think in that respect Martin Gero has done a wonderful job.

It was still a needless death though, just like those soldiers in that war. :(

Ruined_puzzle
January 16th, 2007, 05:46 PM
Consider this: Vancouver legalizes the use of marijuana in 2004. This is around the same time that major and rather odd decisions were being made about Stargate. The trend continues today. Coincidence? I think not.

LOL. OMG I think your right. :cool:

gebtkd
January 16th, 2007, 05:51 PM
You know I haven't seen Sunday yet and I am really anxious to do so. However, I have been reading a lot of the comments and although I agree and I am sad that Beckett is gone, I agree that unfortunately it's part of life, we all had moments in our lives when we say I should have done this or that. Think about it this way, what if Carson would have gone fishing either with Rodney, John or Ronan. How many would have died because he wasn't there to operate on this guy, to do his job. Would he be saying, I wish I wouldn't have gone fishing, maybe I could of save so many lifes, so if people don't see him as a hero in this episode, I just don't get it. I also think a lot of people forget about Phantoms, the hardship that Carson went through when he realized he had never noticed that Barasso had died. I believe Carson was very affected by that incident and even said at the end of the episode that it was the most disturbing experience he ever had. I also feel that Phantoms was a good Carson/Rodney friendship episode, Rodney was truly concerned about his friend.
I believe that we will see Carson again, I don't know how or when but he will be back. I personally feel bad for all the SGA actors, knowing this would be happening, they are a tight group, especially Paul & David.

prion
January 16th, 2007, 05:55 PM
I was going to post my long-winded ;) synopsis/review but it won't fit, so anybody who wants to read it, it's on my live journal at

http://wraithfodder.livejournal.com/44494.html

complete with some transcripts of key dialogue (well to me) and some photos snerched from Franklyn (with full credit give, hope you don't mind, I can't cap and you did a great job!!!)


Meanwhile, sixth pallbearer was Biro, I'm pretty sure of that.
SHeppard's not a letch or a pedophile or whatever. I regrettably know lots of divorced folks and infidelity/cheating had nothing to do with it. People just grow apart.
Don't know if it ripped off a Grey's Anatomy as I refuse to watch that show.
I think the actors all did a great job with their dialogue/scenes, like what we got in tidbits. A lot was said in just facial expressions.
Still thinking offing Beckett is akin to shoving Lassie off a cliff. Just as stupid too.


Rest is in my LJ entry.

Uranium118
January 16th, 2007, 06:07 PM
This is one of my favorite episode of Atlantis. Really good. I think I'll have too watch it a few times again, awesome episode.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
January 16th, 2007, 06:54 PM
Just got done watching the episode, it was a sad but decent episode. I hope Carson returns later in the series, he was a cool guy. I loved it when Joe's (Mallozzi) name was mention by Zelenka (the character's name was Dr. Mallozzi). I give it a ***.

Two more episodes, and then the 2 month wait until it airs on Sci-Fi.

Light474
January 16th, 2007, 07:08 PM
I finally watched this episode. I really didn't want to watch it because I knew what was going to happen to Carson. I liked the beginning of the episode but there were parts of the episode that felt like I was reading a fan fic that someone had sprinkled crack over. Some characters felt like the words they were saying were not their own but mere puppets in some elaborate play that no one but the writers had seen.

This is definitely one episode that I don't want to see over again. If similar episodes like this one are to follow then I'm afraid to say that I might not watch anymore. I love the characters but when all of a sudden you change what they might normally say then they arn't the characters I first saw and fell in love with.

mcbarr
January 16th, 2007, 07:17 PM
Carson's death was really saddening... There were some fine character moments in the episode, but overall it was quite disappointing. When I heard of bombs going off in Atlantis, I thought, OK, we'll get some Trust action in this ep, but no. Instead, we ended up with EXPLOSIVE TUMORS. Get real! What's up with the Lanteans and their f##### up toys anyway? Haven't they left anything useful?

xfkirsten
January 16th, 2007, 07:24 PM
Every time the "exploding tumors" are mentioned, does anyone else immediately think of the little ditty from a Family Guy episode? :D

(to the tune of "Rock Me Amadeus")
"I'm a tumor, I'm a tumor!
I'm a tumor, I'm a tumor, I'm a tumor!
I'm a tumor, I'm a tumor, I'm a tumor!
Oh oh oh... I'm a tumor."

I think I'm just in a very goofy mood after spending the day in the lemming thread. :p

Belamel
January 16th, 2007, 07:29 PM
Still thinking offing Beckett is akin to shoving Lassie off a cliff. Just as stupid too.


OMG That made me laugh. Very fitting description I think.

ussrelativity
January 16th, 2007, 07:42 PM
Consider this: Vancouver legalizes the use of marijuana in 2004. This is around the same time that major and rather odd decisions were being made about Stargate. The trend continues today. Coincidence? I think not.


I'm inclined to agree heavily.

PG15
January 16th, 2007, 07:45 PM
I've been watching television for a very long time now...but there were only 2 things, 2 1-hour television episodes that made me feel as I do now. Both were Star Trek Enterprise episodes, and both made me quiet for a long while after the episode finished. I don't know what it was; perhaps I was thinking about the events within the episodes, perhaps I was trying to twist my mind through the plot lines; the character's actions.

The first was "Damage", where a major character revealed an addiction to a drug, and the captain was forced to steal from innocent aliens. The second was "Observer Effect", where the captain's best friend died; the pain he showed in his eyes was probably what did it. At the end of the episode, however, everyone came back to life, and showed the friendship between the characters.

Tonight we add a third episode to this list. My headphones, which I used to watch "Sunday", is still on my head, long after the last few seconds of the episode was silenced. I have not said a single word since the growling lion that is MGM's logo vanished off of my computer screen. My nose, and my hands are ice cold, and I'm forced to swallow again due to whatever process that's affecting me right now. For the first time, writing a "review" for an episode is taking something out of me; instead of listing the points of interest, filled with happy faces at the end of them, I'm going to write a real review, or as real as I can.

I'm not going to lie. Sunday was not perfect. The first few moments felt a tad awkward as we are suddenly drawn into the personal lives of these characters which we've seen time-and-time again in mortal danger, only exposing the part of them wishing for survival. At best, we saw grace under pressure (pun definately not intended), and a little humor/snark between buddies. But this was different. It was jarring, yes, but once I got used to it, everything became that much more wholesome, that much more sweet. I was watching the people I knew having fun, enjoying life, and all that good stuff that they've deserved since day 1.

Martin Gero, the SuperUberGod he is (I had to promote him again after this episode), crafted this episode like a puzzle that for once didn't bore me after opening the box. It was very odd seeing Elizabeth on a date, especially with a little scruffy nerd herder who I've never heard of before. I'll admit, I thought he was a little too arrogent for his own good, and took mild satisfaction at Liz's "rejection" of him at the end. Still, if he returns, I won't be unhappy.

Speaking of returns, we got to see many faces from the past; the enthusiastic Dr. Beuro(sp?), the accepting Katie Brown, as well as our usual guest stars with new, interesting quirks of their own. Zeleka bested that SOB at chess, and took away Joe's Anime DVDs, and Lorne's excellence at paintings were only eclipsed by my lack there of. Even though the main story was not this; it was still nice. Obvious mention will go to the little character moments, such as McKay's marriage stuttering and Ronan and Shep's little beer fest, including the first time we hear them actually talking about potential relationships (and the last). Still, the story was not about this.

As we all know by now, Gero wanted to do a *complete* day off, with just characters interracting. However, while that would be perfect for a good laugh and some character development, what he did instead elevated this episode above pretty much all else in terms of character drama in this series, and perhaps in SG1 as well.

There is no words to describe Beckett's day off. Of course, I knew he was going to pass on long before I saw the episode, as did pretty much everyone on this forum. Still, watching each character politely rejecting him, and having him frustrated, just adds another layer to the whole thing. I'll probably just repeat what everyone else has said, about his absolute determination, his absolute dedication...but it has to be said. Carson Beckett was an unique character; he died doing what he did best. Sure, it wasn't something huge like the Wraith or Asurans attacking the city, and he was the one man that can flip the switch to save everyone; that would've been cheap, and cliche.

This was different. From start to finish, the ending minutes of the episode was dedicated to Carson Beckett. He saved the lives of 2 people by himself. His nurse, and Watson. Sure, our heroes save millions of people on a daily basis, but when it comes down to 2, it becomes personal. Carson died a personal death, the most honorable, the most memorable death. This was in plain sight at the end of the episode; the body might be broken, but Carson will forever live on in the memories of the Atlantis expedition, as well as the viewers. I mourn for him, and what's more, I didn't think it was necessary.

But it had an impact on me. It made me feel things that I usually don't. It gave me a new experience, one that I will never forget. In television nothing is necessary, but when it has the chance to impact a viewer such as myself like this...it becomes necessary, just as it's necessary that we remember him, as well as the fact that for 45 minutes, we were treated to his generosity, his dedication, and everything else that made him Carson Beckett.

This is PG15, still not taking the headphones off, still not talking, still typing with ice cold hands, signing off with an Episode Score of...

10/10

Anjirika
January 16th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Consider this: Vancouver legalizes the use of marijuana in 2004. This is around the same time that major and rather odd decisions were being made about Stargate. The trend continues today. Coincidence? I think not.


OMG.....that makes alot of sense.............

The Ori
January 16th, 2007, 07:53 PM
Ahh I want Carson!