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GateWorld
November 19th, 2006, 08:45 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/312.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/312.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/312.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">ECHOES</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 312</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The inhabitants of Atlantis begin to suffer ill effects when the planet's whale population begins migrating to the island city, bringing an unexpected harbinger of doom.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/312.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

daniel9
November 27th, 2006, 11:15 PM
i cant beleive the stupid blockheads gave their zpms to the odysessy and earth

Avreana
November 27th, 2006, 11:21 PM
I was going to write a great detailed summary for you all but now that I sit down to type I find I've having trouble remembering details so I shall leave that to people more talented than I.


Things I liked:

- Firstly, I found there was a lot of great snark in this episode! I liked the interesting combination of Zelenka, Sheppard and Ronon in the Puddlejumper at the beginning. Plus it had a lot of great little character moments throughout.

- I loved that Rodney was immensely pleased that his whale friend is back to visit. And that Sheppard thought Rodney naming the whale 'Sam' was “creepy”. Hee

- I liked that Teyla got more screentime. Her and Ronon have a number of scenes together. I'm anti-ship in general, but I do think they have chemistry together. (Did I just admit that out loud?)

- The deaf Rodney & Sheppard scenes were funny, and the scenes in the Puddlejumper leading up to it were great as well. They made my whumper's heart happy.

A question though: don't perforated eardrums take months to heal?


- For some reason I was moved by the computer display showing all the little dots of the whales huddled under Atlantis for protection. I'm not quite sure why.



Things I didn't like: (and these were fairly serious issues for me):

- The completely extraneous scenes with Kate Heightmeier. We all know that Teyla and Weir are not crazy so I wanted to get on with the plot! These scenes could have been chopped out and their screentime put to better use.

- The beginning was too slow and the last half had too much happening. They could have evened out the episode pacing a little more.


However, overall I was entertained and amused. Which is all that matters in the grand scheme of things :)

techjunkie
November 27th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Not Quite Spoiler-ific Time!

Just caught the HD Echoes episode, and was impressed. Not too worry, the spoilers are below in tags. I was a little miffed; Movie Central aired it at the wrong time on the west coast, and I was a little blue over the news of the impending loss of one of the characters next season. My Turtles!

Overall - a return to what makes this series cool, and one of my personal wishes - to explore Atlantis! Okay - Now for the spoilers:

These are semi spoilers

The episode sees the return of the whale-like big fishes that circled Rodney's downed jumper last season. We do get up-close and personal with one, and their arrival was done in a very good suspense building way. Are they good guys or bad guys - and yes they are connected to the visions of a burned Atlantean among others.

We do get an update to the massive plot holes that have been discussed on this board.

(1) No Atlanteans survived last episode. In fact, it's referred to as the 'murder of the Atlanteans' several times.

(2) Atlantis HAD three ZPM's, fully charged. They now have one. One was sent to power the Antarctic defensive system, the other was sent to the Odyssey to give it a boost against the Ori. Sweet.

The ending was a a brute-force solution, thought of by Major Sheppard. Quite cool, neat effects, and we get to see Caldwell act angry.

Oh yeah, and Tayla and Ronin are starting to look like they need some private time.

Overall a good episode. Kept me in suspense, although I kinda knew 'who' was doing this. 'Why '- was a surprise.

Tech Junkie

SmallTimePerson
November 27th, 2006, 11:30 PM
i cant believe the stupid blockheads gave their zpms to the odyssey and earth

did they?
why didn't they give the zpm to the Daedalus to keep the shows separate?

daniel9
November 28th, 2006, 12:07 AM
either way u cant stopthe orii ships with a zpm and theyve yet to do anything against the wraith using a zpm either. so its a waste

travis
November 28th, 2006, 01:15 AM
Wow is this it? surely there must be more discussion happening:confused:

Aussie_Fan
November 28th, 2006, 01:22 AM
lol, that's exactly what I was thinking Travis!

Spoiler junkie here :D I'm not going to see this ep for another few days but I wanna know all about it by then :P

travis
November 28th, 2006, 01:25 AM
lol, that's exactly what I was thinking Travis!

Spoiler junkie here :D I'm not going to see this ep for another few days but I wanna know all about it by then :P

LOL I know, been hanging for this all day kind of dissapointing, oh well may be we'll get lucky later.:D

sueKay
November 28th, 2006, 02:38 AM
Was Beckett in the episode at all??

prion
November 28th, 2006, 03:31 AM
Wow is this it? surely there must be more discussion happening:confused:

according to another thread, movie channel (whoever) didn't air it at the advertised time, so many folks might have missed it.

er, correction: since half the people commenting about the episode live in the UK, well... guess it aired, er, *somewhere*.... ;)

Alipeeps
November 28th, 2006, 05:02 AM
Immediate thoughts as I watch the ep:

Nice to see Ronon actually be something other than stoic - I *liked* seeing him annoyed and pissy in the jumper! :D
Teyla kicking Ronon's ass at stick-fighting! Go Teyla!! :D
BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG fat reset button to beat em all - have to admit to a little bit of disappointment that everything is magically back to normal at Atlantis with no sign of the Earth expedition ever even being gone and no repercussions of the rescue - not even a mention of Sheppard being even told off!
Sheppard-McKay banter and teasing! Loving it! :D
Weir calling referring to Sheppard and McKay as "boys". Awesome. :D
Heightmeyer looked much better as a blonde - being brunette makes her look pale and drawn.
Sheppard making anti-Canadian comments to test if Rodney is still deaf!! *BWAH!*
Sheppard and McKay talking at the tops of their voices all the time! :lol:
"Just like a pigeon"!! :lol:
Oh my - the sparky fans are gonna LOVE Sheppard carrying Weir to the infirmary!
Wow. Found myself actually tensing up as the solar flare thingy hit the Daedalus!
Hmmm.. the whole "Ronon doesn't understand technobabble so say it in simple words of one syllable" joke is getting a bit old. He's not dumb for crying out loud...
DeafWeir(TM. Heh. :D
)

All in all. Good ep. I enjoyed it. :D

Red Phoniex
November 28th, 2006, 05:11 AM
i really liked this episode. it had alot of humour and some brilliant character moments. It was lovely to see more of Teyla and Ronan. Yes, Carson was in the ep but played more of the doctor role than anything else.

Loved the McKay and Sheppard moments, the deaf scenes were so funny.

The ending!!!!! That McKay smile!!! So cute!!!!!!!

sorry, big McKay fan and fell in love all over again at that smile ;)

Alipeeps
November 28th, 2006, 05:12 AM
did they?
why didn't they give the zpm to the Daedalus to keep the shows separate?

The reason given was to help the ship in the fight against the Orii (wouldn't hurt to have the ZPM powering the sheilds I guess!)


Was Beckett in the episode at all??

Yup, he was in it lots. Everyone starts getting sick so lots of infirmary action and Beckett doing his thang.

Guess i'd better write an episode summary or something then if no-one else has?

Raj_2006
November 28th, 2006, 05:29 AM
Not Quite Spoiler-ific Time!

Just caught the HD Echoes episode, and was impressed. Not too worry, the spoilers are below in tags. I was a little miffed; Movie Central aired it at the wrong time on the west coast, and I was a little blue over the news of the impending loss of one of the characters next season. My Turtles!

Overall - a return to what makes this series cool, and one of my personal wishes - to explore Atlantis! Okay - Now for the spoilers:

These are semi spoilers

The episode sees the return of the whale-like big fishes that circled Rodney's downed jumper last season. We do get up-close and personal with one, and their arrival was done in a very good suspense building way. Are they good guys or bad guys - and yes they are connected to the visions of a burned Atlantean among others.

We do get an update to the massive plot holes that have been discussed on this board.

(1) No Atlanteans survived last episode. In fact, it's referred to as the 'murder of the Atlanteans' several times.

(2) Atlantis HAD three ZPM's, fully charged. They now have one. One was sent to power the Antarctic defensive system, the other was sent to the Odyssey to give it a boost against the Ori. Sweet.

The ending was a a brute-force solution, thought of by Major Sheppard. Quite cool, neat effects, and we get to see Caldwell act angry.

Oh yeah, and Tayla and Ronin are starting to look like they need some private time.

Overall a good episode. Kept me in suspense, although I kinda knew 'who' was doing this. 'Why '- was a surprise.

Tech Junkie

COOL , can't wait to see this episode. When does it air in Canada? :D

Iguana775
November 28th, 2006, 05:34 AM
Not Quite Spoiler-ific Time!

Just caught the HD Echoes episode, and was impressed. Not too worry, the spoilers are below in tags. I was a little miffed; Movie Central aired it at the wrong time on the west coast, and I was a little blue over the news of the impending loss of one of the characters next season. My Turtles!

Overall - a return to what makes this series cool, and one of my personal wishes - to explore Atlantis! Okay - Now for the spoilers:

These are semi spoilers

The episode sees the return of the whale-like big fishes that circled Rodney's downed jumper last season. We do get up-close and personal with one, and their arrival was done in a very good suspense building way. Are they good guys or bad guys - and yes they are connected to the visions of a burned Atlantean among others.

We do get an update to the massive plot holes that have been discussed on this board.

(1) No Atlanteans survived last episode. In fact, it's referred to as the 'murder of the Atlanteans' several times.

(2) Atlantis HAD three ZPM's, fully charged. They now have one. One was sent to power the Antarctic defensive system, the other was sent to the Odyssey to give it a boost against the Ori. Sweet.

The ending was a a brute-force solution, thought of by Major Sheppard. Quite cool, neat effects, and we get to see Caldwell act angry.

Oh yeah, and Tayla and Ronin are starting to look like they need some private time.

Overall a good episode. Kept me in suspense, although I kinda knew 'who' was doing this. 'Why '- was a surprise.

Tech Junkie

sweet! thanks for the info! :)

FallenAngelII
November 28th, 2006, 05:53 AM
COOL , can't wait to see this episode. When does it air in Canada? :D
About 12 hours ago.

SGFerrit
November 28th, 2006, 06:04 AM
i cant beleive the stupid blockheads gave their zpms to the odysessy and earth

Yes lets just let Earth die.

Atlantis doesn't NEED 3 ZPMs if it has 1. Earth does. It REALLY does.

What's wrong with sharing the joy?

Alipeeps
November 28th, 2006, 06:05 AM
Okay so I'm typing up a nice big long summary of the ep - it's turning out reeeeeally long so probably will take more than one post. So here's the first bit - I'll put it in spoiler tags to be on the safe side:

The episode begins with Sheppard flying Zelenka and Ronon back from the mainland where Zelenka has been performing some scientific tests and Ronon was hunting – Ronon is in a foul mood cos the noise of Zelenka’s tests scared off any game! Sheppard suggests he try meditation lessons with Teyla. They suddenly realise that they should be able to see Atlantis but it’s not there. After a coupla moment of confusion Zelenka tells Sheppard to change course and they find the city right where it should be – the jumper’s navigational system is off. They get back to the city and Ronon joins Teyla for a meditation lesson… and falls asleep! Teyla is not too impressed when he starts snoring! Teyla leaves the meditation session and as she walks back to her quarters she sees an Ancient woman walking down the corridor towards her, speaking in a weird noises that Teyla cannot understand. Teyla tries to speak to her but the woman walks right through her and disappears.

Opening credits.

Rodney bugs Elizabeth about his desire to keep all 3 ZPMs the city was left with after the replicator takeover. Elizabeth tells him it’s not possible – they need one for the Antarctica outpost and one for the Oddysey to help them in their fight against the Orii. Ronon and Teyla stick fight (and she kicks his ass! :D) and as they walk through the corridors together afterwards, Teyla sees the Ancient woman again – Ronon can’t see her. This time, Teyla steps aside and lets the woman walk past her and follows as she walks up to a door which opens and a terribly burned man staggers out. The vision disappears leaving Teyla shocked and Ronon confused – he saw nothing.

Sheppard meets Rodney on a balcony where Rodney is using binoculars to watch the whale creature from GUP (he thinks it’s the same whale) swimming around not far from the city. Teyla has a brain scan which is clear with no sign of any abnormality. No-one can work out why she saw what she saw. Teyla theorises that perhaps she is seeing the “ghosts” of Ancients who died recently during the Asuran attack and who tried to ascend but were prevented from doing so fully and are trapped between planes of existence.

Rodney tells Weir and Sheppard that he has found information on the whale-like creature in the Ancient database. He mentions that “Sam” lead Sheppard and Zelenka to him in the submerged jumper and hastily covers up by saying he has named the whale Sam! Night time. Teyla gets into bed but before she can fall asleep she is disturbed by a noise – the same odd speech she heard the Ancient woman make before. She leaves her room and sees the same thing – the woman walks past her, the door opens and the burned man staggers out. This time before they disappear the woman catches the burned man and turns to, it seems, cry out for help. Teyla clutches her head as though the noise causes her pain.

Teyla talks to Heightmeyer about her visions and they discuss why they are appearing only to Teyla. Teyla thinks if the visions are Ancients trapped between planes, they may be trying to communicate and ask for help. Heightmeyer updates Weir on the situation with Teyla – after she leaves, Weir opens a transporter door to be confronted with the burned man. He disappears, leaving Weir shocked. Weir and Teyla discuss the visions with Heightmeyer and she thinks it may be the power of suggestion and that both Weir and Teyla are tired and need a break. Teyla has headaches and cannot sleep - Heightmeyer suggests both Weir and Teyla see Beckett for something to hekp them sleep.

McKay shows Sheppard that he has found a second whale on the scanners – possibly “Sam’s” mother. Sheppard claims calling the whale Sam is creepy but suggests they take a jumper and take a closer look at them. Zelenka warns them that he’s not yet sure he has fixed the problem with the navigational glitch but that he will track them from the control room. Beckett gives Weir and Teyla sleeping pills and tells them they should make time for at least 8 hours uninterrupted rest. After they leave, he sees a team of Ancient medics treating/operating on the burned man. They disappear.

McKay and Sheppard fly the jumper underwater to get a closer look at the whales. In a corridor on Atlantis, Ronon sees a team of Ancient scientists gathered around a console then they disappear. As they get closer to the whales, Sheppard starts to get a headache. They have a problem with navigation again and suddenly find themselves much closer to the whales than they intended to get. McKay gets a sudden headache too. They agree that it’s not a coincidence and decide to pull back. Zelenka suggests it may be the whales’ echo location system creating uncomfortable vibrations and causing the headaches. On the monitor Radek suddenly sees many more whales – dozens of them – heading for the jumper. McKay’s nose starts to bleed.

Weir, Beckett, Ronon and Teyla discuss with Heightmeyer that they have all seen the visions now and others in the city are starting to report seeing them. In all the visions the apparitions are Ancients and seem worried. Weir is called to the control room. Sheppard and McKay are trying to get away from the whales to alleviate the pain they are experiencing but the whales are cutting them off. Rodney passes out, bleeding from his ears. Sheppard decides they need to get out of the water now. His ears start bleeding too as he flies the jumper straight up out of the water. On the scanner, hundreds of whales are now heading to Atlantis.

In the infirmary, Sheppard and McKay are in bed and Beckett and Zelenka explain their eardrums have been perforated by the whales’ sonar. Close proximity to the whales’ communication is very dangerous to humans. Sheppard and McKay are partially deaf – though Beckett says it should heal soon – and are shouting when they talk!

Whales are approaching the city from every direction. Their communications are affecting the people in the city – people are experiencing headaches and nosebleeds etc and the closer the whales get, the worse it will get. They turn on the shield. Teyla suggests if the Ancient visions they are seeing are trying to warn them of something, perhaps this is it; her visions started when they first noticed the whale.

In the infirmary, Sheppard is starting to feel better – the pain is less and he thinks he hearing is getting better. He tries to tell McKay who doesn’t appear to hear him. Sheppard tests McKay’s deafness by making a few snide comments “Canadian football league’s a joke”, “Celine Dion is over-rated” and “Zelenka is smarter than you are!” No response from McKay who is working on a datapad – until he announces that he has found mention of a biolab the Ancients used to study animal life.

More people are getting ill – all Beckett can do is give people painkillers. McKay and Sheppard decide to leave the infirmary, saying they are feeling better. Beckett tries to order them back to bed but they explain about the Ancient biolab and that it might help solve their current situation.

Alipeeps
November 28th, 2006, 06:54 AM
Concluding part of my episode summary:

The Daedalus arrives and Weir asks them not to beam anyone down as they will be safer on board the ship. Teyla sees another vision and experiences intense pain and collapses, bleeding from the nose. Ronon helps her up and takes her to the infirmary. Sheppard and McKay find the biolab. Weir explains to Caldwell that the whales’ signal seems to be able to penetrate the shields and that there are now hundreds of whales and they are still coming closer. Caldwell suggests that if the whales don’t leave the only option may be to use drones and kill them – before they kill the humans. McKay arrives and explains the whales are not trying to kill them but to help them.

The Ancient biolab contains a transceiver the Ancients were using the study the whales and try to interpret their language. The ghosts are not ghosts but image projections caused by the whales. The ghosts aren’t warning about the whales – the whales are causing the ghosts to try and warn the inhabitants of Atlantis. It’s an attempt to communicate and the console in the bioab should be able to help interpret it.

More and more people are ill and Teyla is in the infirmary. She keeps seeing the burned man being operated on – she is seeing the visions almost constantly now. They decide to beam the most sick people up to the Daedalus. Beckett thinks Teyla should go but she refuses. She realises that the burned man in the visions is wearing the uniform of an Ancient pilot. Carson’s nose starts to bleed.

McKay manages to get the console to translate the weird speech of the woman in the visions – it is distorted but it is Ancient. The console is a transmitter as well as transceiver – the Ancients had been transmitting the whales images and sounds to try and teach them the Ancient language. While they were doing this, there was some kind of disaster and the whales saw and heard the images and sounds of that disaster. The descendants of those whales are now transmitting back those images and sounds to try and warn Atlantis but their playback is imperfect because over the images etc have been passed down through genetic memory and the new whales can mimic the sounds etc but don’t understand them so the mimicry is imperfect. Weir understands enough of the garbled Ancient speech to work out they are talking about something being attacked or overtaken and something called Adaris.

Caldwell again suggests killing the whales but Mckay and Sheppard have found out that the Adaris was an Ancient ship. 15,000 years ago the entire crew except for the pilot was killed when the ship was hit by a massive blast of radiation from the sun. A coronal mass ejection. The badly-burned pilot (the man in the visions) survived long enough to open a hyperspace window and made it back to Atlantis just ahead of the resulting massive wave of radiation in time to warn the city. The Ancients raised the shield and extended it enough to protect a large part of the planet from the blast. The same thing is about to happen, in fact has already started happening, and that is what the whales have been trying to warn them about.

Ronon talks to Teyla in the infirmary – she is getting weaker and weaker. Ronon tries to keep her conscious, telling her to hold on as she has to teach him those meditation lessons. She loses consciousness.

Rodney explains that the solar flare is already building and it will soon collapse and cause the massive ejection of radiation from the sun. it will start as a narrow beam but will spread and will encompass the entire planet. They have less than an hour before the radiation hits them. The whales detected the event in advance, being able to detect small changes in the magnetosphere. The Ancients managed to protect most of the planet with the shield but they had 3 ZPMs – the team only has 1 and it’s too late to get any of the other ZPMs back before the blast hits them. They are out of options - they can’t gate to Earth because they need the ZPM to power the shield, they can’t use the gate bridge because the midway station isn’t completed yet (so they are planning to make it an actual space station type thing where you can use the gate bridge on foot! Wooot!) so people would have to be ferried by jumper. Even if they go to the alpha site, the entire ecosystem of the planet will be damaged for centuries by the blast. No plant life so no breathable air etc. The discussion is interrupted when Weir suddenly collapses.

Sheppard carries Weir into the infirmary and Beckett rushes over. Sheppard sees a nurse pull a sheet over a soldier’s face and Beckett explains they’ve had their first fatality; an aneurysm from the pressure. Sheppard goes to check on the unconscious Teyla and Ronon tells him she is out of time. He asks Sheppard if he has a plan and Sheppard answers, “Sure” and leaves the infirmary. Sheppard contacts the Daedalus.

Sheppard and McKay remove the ZPM from Atlantis; Sheppard’s plan is to use it to power the Daedalus’s shields enough for them to manoeuvre close to the sun and deflect the radiation blast away from the planet before it begins to spread. McKay thinks the plan is insane – says they would have to be dangerously close to the sun and that the heat build up behind the shield will turn them to toast etc. Sheppard thinks they can do it – in any case, they have no other choice.

The Daedalus flies towards the sun whilst McKay tries to connect the ZPM. The prominence is collapsing and they are running out of time. Just in time, McKay gets the ZPM connected and powers the shields and a blast of radiation shoots out from the sun and hits the Daedalus’ shields, splitting in two around the ship. The blast goes on and on and on and McKay says it could last anywhere between a few seconds and several hours. Heat begins to build behind the shield and McKay warns them he told them this was a bad idea. On Atlantis Zelenka explains to Ronon that the blast wave should have hit them by now but it hasn’t so it appears the plan is working.

The Daedalus starts to take damage from the blast; there is a hull breach in the F302 bay. They seal the breach but another area breaches and they are venting atmosphere. Suddenly, the blast stops. Everyone is shaken and surprised – and relieved – that they made it.

Back on Atlantis, Zelenka explains that most of the whales are gone now; they had all taken cover within Atlantis’s shields and then began to disperse as soon as the threat was over. Elizabeth is back on her feet and talking too loud – she’s partially deaf now! Teyla is meditating when Ronon joins her, asking if she is ok. He asks if he can try again with the meditation and she warns him that if he falls asleep again… he hands her a fighting stick and tells her to hit him with it if he does.

Sheppard finds McKay on the balcony again – not all the whales are gone. His friend Sam has hung around a little longer, Rodney thinks he is saying goodbye. Sheppard says that makes sense; “He saved your life and then you saved his. Now you’re even.” Rodney smiles.

THE END!

Starxgate
November 28th, 2006, 07:23 AM
It was fun seeing John & McKay doing the whale thing. "Stop calling him Sam its creepy". This type of episode would be where Daniel is needed lol & hmm there could be something going on with Teyla & Ronan in the future

Oka
November 28th, 2006, 08:04 AM
Total filler episode. Giving away two of the three ZPMs was a total cop-out. We already freaking established that Ancient weapons were ineffective against Ori, so why does Earth need TWO of them? Oh, I forgot, Atlantis can't be too powerful, that's why!

The whole deal with the whales was DUMB: why are they out looking for WHALES when they have two extremely dangerous enemies (replicators, wraiths) out to destroy them?

Good:
- Ronon falling asleep during Teyla's stupid meditation session.
- Sheppard making fun of Canada.
- McKay being deaf.
- Caldwell: "let's kill the whales!"
- I like Zelenka.
- Pretty cool SFX when they were on the Daedalus
- It wasn't Teyla centric which I first thought it was going to be.

Bad:
- No references to the fact that Atlantis had just been invaded and occupied by replicators? Total reset. Disappointing.
- Giving away the ZPMs... dumb.
- Whale storyline, what the hell?
- Every time they said the word "whales" I snickered.
- The psychiatrist scenes, is Teyla insane or not!? Yawn, why?
- TOO much technobabble.
- Interfacing the ZPM with the Daedalus sure was easy.
- The ending was unsatisfying, everything was concluded too quickly, felt rushed.


5.5/10. Star Trek IV was better.

SGFerrit
November 28th, 2006, 08:12 AM
Giving away two of the three ZPMs was a total cop-out. We already freaking established that Ancient weapons were ineffective against Ori, so why does Earth need TWO of them? Oh, I forgot, Atlantis can't be too powerful, that's why!


Where does it say that Ancient tech doesn't work against the Ori? Lets face it a ZPM on the Oddy will seriously help, it is the only ship we have in the MW full time at the moment! We need the strongest shields we can get.

I feel having a ZPM on the oddy will seriously help it survive in a future episode.

Alipeeps
November 28th, 2006, 08:18 AM
Total filler episode. Giving away two of the three ZPMs was a total cop-out. We already freaking established that Ancient weapons were ineffective against Ori, so why does Earth need TWO of them? Oh, I forgot, Atlantis can't be too powerful, that's why!

Or maybe because having a ZPM to power their shields might give the Oddessy a greater chance of survival in an encounter with the Ori? And because it's a good idea to be able to use the Ancient weapon on Earth.. you know, there being more to the Universe than just the Ori and all...



The whole deal with the whales was DUMB: why are they out looking for WHALES when they have two extremely dangerous enemies (replicators, wraiths) out to destroy them?

They weren't "looking out for them". Rodney was researching them in his own time - as he clearly stated.



Bad:
- No references to the fact that Atlantis had just been invaded and occupied by replicators? Total reset. Disappointing.

There were several references to that fact actually. I admit though, the reset was huge - no mention of any repercussions of the Sheppard and co disobeying direct orders, no signs even that the expedition had ever been away from Atlantis. That was annoying. Tho not unexpected, sadly...



- Whale storyline, what the hell?
- Every time they said the word "whales" I snickered.

I thought the story was good. There was the required element of danger so that the team save the day etc, there was a mystery, there was whumpage, there was great team interaction. I really enjoyed this ep.



- Interfacing the ZPM with the Daedalus sure was easy.


Well, McKay had interfaced a ZPM with Earth technology before (using what looked like an identical interface) to power the gate and get them to Atlantis in the first place....

Arctic Goddess
November 28th, 2006, 08:35 AM
Good episode overall. Yes, I agree, whale story was a bit pushed. And I was looking for a bit more re: the fallout from the replicators on Atlantis. Loved the McKay/Sheppard banter and the Ronan/Teyla interaction. I'm being patient about fallout from Sheppard's disobeying the chain of command, hoping it will be dealt with in a future episode. Sheppard should have at least had a talking to by General Landry or a nice visit from O'Neill, so O'Neill could say, "Colonel, you were out of line!" then a whispered, "Nice job."

Oka
November 28th, 2006, 08:35 AM
Odyssey might last a little bit longer VS an Ori ship with a ZPM, won't change anything though they'll just die slower :) I still think it's a waste, and a cop-out, just like the fact that they never get to keep any ships they find........

The whole storyline with the whales was cheesy. There was some good moments in the episode though (the ones I listed, primarily), so it wasn't a total waste.


Still, Star Trek IV was better.

female Wraith
November 28th, 2006, 09:02 AM
Awesome episode! The idea of the whales and the shielding was cool:)

sgeureka
November 28th, 2006, 09:02 AM
I was pretty impressed by this episode. I thought I would just be a filler episode, but it got me way more excited than some of the over-arcing stories concerning the Wraith.

I'm glad to see the whales back. It makes Atlantis more real. Heck, it's a small island on a large water planet (mostly). And having some sort of recreational experience when watching life in the water is also not uncommon.

But a few things I don't understand:
- Why was Zelenka out of uniform at the beginning? He may have said it, but it's still not clear to me.
- Was it stated how much time has passed between Return P1 and this ep? Weir said she hasn't had much spare time in the recent past. During Return P1, she had plenty of time to write her memoirs.
- If Teyla was really the worst off as was stated(?) why wasn't she also one of the first to beam to the Daedalus? Or did I miss something?


The whole deal with the whales was DUMB: why are they out looking for WHALES when they have two extremely dangerous enemies (replicators, wraiths) out to destroy them? I was seriously expecting the whales to carry some sort of bomb (implanted by the Wraith maybe?) or to destroy Atlantis from the underwater thing from last ep. Yeah, I know, stupid thinking.

SGAFan
November 28th, 2006, 09:05 AM
Well, I really liked it. Certainly better than R2 (although aspects of R2 were fun) I'm finding that more and more (at least since the Siege I,II,III) that SGA really does much beter with episodic stories and not 2 parters (I haven't been REALLY fond of a 2 parter since season 1)

I loved the snark, its good to see tha back again. And the simple fact that Sheppard and Rodney got into trouble during their "time off" Sheesh, just can't leave those two alone for 2 minutes without one or both of them getting into trouble :lol:

The yelling stuff was hilarious, and I loved the whole pigeon reference. LOL

The scene in the PJ was very cool, nice building of tension!

I loved to see the scenes with Ronon and Teyla even if it was just so Teyla was actually used as a character.

Ronon snoring in meditation... hilarious! :lol:

Overall, I thought the ep was pretty good :D

ToasterOnFire
November 28th, 2006, 09:05 AM
5.5/10. Star Trek IV was better.
HA!! That's the first thing I thought of when I read the spoilers about the whale. :D :D

Alipeeps
November 28th, 2006, 09:10 AM
But a few things I don't understand:
- Why was Zelenka out of uniform at the beginning? He may have said it, but it's still not clear to me.

Not really clear other than that he had been "camping", as Sheppard called it. Maybe he was camping and doing his ground radar tests in his spare time? Or maybe he just felt more comfortable camping in camping gear than in uniform?



- Was it stated how much time has passed between Return P1 and this ep? Weir said she hasn't had much spare time in the recent past. During Return P1, she had plenty of time to write her memoirs.

Don't believe it was mentioned how much time had passed... but certainly enough for the giant reset button to allow for the entire expedition and all their equipment etc to get back to Atlantis and get re-set up as though she had never left!



- If Teyla was really the worst of as was stated(?) why wasn't she also one of the first to beam to the Daedalus? Or did I miss something?

She refused to go. Why Carson let her refuse I don't quite know! :lol:

majortrip
November 28th, 2006, 09:20 AM
I really liked this episode. I thought the McKay/Sheppard banter was great and it was nice to see Dr. Weir and Teyla in several scenes together. I also enjoyed the sparring, and it was nice to see Teyla's spiritual side.

I laughed out loud several times, especially when everyone was yelling due to the perforated ear drums.

The only thing was was missing to me was some sort of fallout from The Return. I realize Sheppard will always be the hero and therefore gets by disobeying direct orders, but a little dressing down would've been nice and a little more realistic.

I personally liked the bit about the whales, and seeing the Ancients' research on them reminded me of some of the research that's happening now in marine biology.

Overall, thumbs up.:)

Caldwell's 2IC
November 28th, 2006, 09:28 AM
Thank you, Alipeeps !

In Mexico, Season 3 hasn't even started yet, but I loooooove spoilers for the upcoming episodes. I can't wait to see the actual episodes, but in the meantime I'll read transcripts....and spoilers ! ;)

And I'm absolutely happy knowing that Caldwell is still around. :)

Sicktem
November 28th, 2006, 09:33 AM
We already freaking established that Ancient weapons were ineffective against Ori

Actually we've established just the opposite. Earth is the Ori's biggest threat in the Milky Way. Their actions have already destroyed one Ori ship and they have the knowledge of a weapon which can destroy the Ori along with the ability to find it. Yet, the Ori have not attacked Earth with their ships. Why? Well in the beginning of the season the characters said that they probably were waiting for reinforcements before they challenged the drones of the Ancient Outpost.


so why does Earth need TWO of them? Oh, I forgot, Atlantis can't be too powerful, that's why!

People forget that the whole point of the Atlantis Expedition is to bring back technology for Earth to defend itself. The Milky Way is being invaded by 3 ships, a new Supergate could pop up at any moment, and as of yet they have nothing to defend themselves. Considering that all Atlantis needs to defend itself is the ability to power the shields and hold on long enough for Earth to get the other ZPMs back to them, who do you think needs them more? I would actually be annoyed if Earth didn't try to take them as it would be out of character with what has been previously established. And in the long run what's the difference if Atlantis or Earth has them? Atlantis can't use 3 ZPMs to move the city because they damaged the engines and in the mean time we get to see them in action on Sg-1. It's not like they're being destroyed, they're being put to good use and will get screen time. Then after the Sg-1 movies conclude the Ori storyline Atlantis may get them back.


Odyssey might last a little bit longer VS an Ori ship with a ZPM, won't change

Being able to take a hit without instantly being disabled may be just what they need. It could lead to them finding a way to finally getting a nuke onboard, it means they can do scouting missions and retreive their team without worrying about losing their own ship, it means having a better chance of stopping a future supergate from being constructed or being able to disable one despite being fired on, and who knows they may find a way to interface drones with their ship so it can fire them. If not I'm hoping that one of the Sg-1 episodes will explain what happened with the Tria since Atlantis has ignored it and perhaps they can bring the ship back and use it against an Ori ship.

In the end, I think you have a bias against Sg-1 and because of that anything that transfers over from Atlantis to it is something you see as being lost. Yet, it goes both ways as Sg-1 is the reason for the Daedalus, the first ZPM they got, and so on. Sg-1 could've really used a new ZPM powered ship called the Daedalus and yet as soon as the ship was completed they sent it right to the Pegasus galaxy to defend the eventual rewards they were hoping to get from Atlantis.

Oka
November 28th, 2006, 09:55 AM
In the end, I think you have a bias against Sg-1 and because of that anything that transfers over from Atlantis to it is something you see as being lost. Yet, it goes both ways as Sg-1 the reason for the Daedalus, the first ZPM they got, and so on. Sg-1 could've really used a new ZPM powered ship called the Daedalus and yet as soon as the ship was completed they sent it right to the Pegasus galaxy to defend the eventual rewards they were hoping to get from Atlantis.

Actually, I like SG-1 more than Atlantis. I just don't buy the explanation we've been given; that Earth/Odyssey could use them against the Ori. I don't think it has anything to do with the story, it's just the writers being lazy, i.e. they don't want Atlantis to be too powerful because that would offset the balance in the Pegasus galaxy. Atlantis no longer being vulnerable would mean that it'd get harder to write more of those "Atlantis almost, but just ALMOST destroyed" episodes.....

I don't like that they started this episode by explaining how they lost the deal with the ZPMs either. It just felt cheap, like they had to throw that in somewhere, without really explaining it. I don't like that Weir totally bent over either and was all right with it either. She's supposed to be the leader of Atlantis and shouldn't just give away ZPMs left and right.

ShoDar
November 28th, 2006, 10:48 AM
Loved the characterisations in this episode. Ronon was priceless (and with actual lines!!) Even though I'm a McKay/Ronon person, I like the way they're going about the Ronon and Teyla dynamic. I also love the 2 CFL references...Rodney and Sheppard are awesome together as usual.

I found the story a bit dragging in parts, since it was fairly obvious that Teyla wasn't nuts and that the whales and apparitions were connected. They probably could have cut some of that out. Especially weird was that people assumed they weren't real considering that Teyla has a history of psychic links.

There was a bit of a reset, but then the most damaged part from Return would have been the Star Drive, which they obviously have no intention of using, so I can see how it wouldn't come up. But John had a line about the intergalactic bridge and how they couldn't use it because the midway station wasn't done...which unless Landry really did blow it up seems to contradict the events of The Return.

Overall, good character episode with a story that mostly held together.

ShoDar
November 28th, 2006, 10:50 AM
She's supposed to be the leader of Atlantis and shouldn't just give away ZPMs left and right.

She might not have had much of a choice. She did say (I think) that it wasn't up to her and I'm prettysure that she and Sheppard aren't really in the best of standing with SGC and the IOA at the moment.

GateMan2000
November 28th, 2006, 11:03 AM
Giving up all 3 ZPMs was stupid as hell! They should have just found a way to fix the star drive and got Atlantis the hell out of the Pegasus Galaxy.

FallenAngelII
November 28th, 2006, 11:14 AM
Fix the Stardrive (which had been droned) in about a week? Pft.

I thought it was a great episode. Very slashable how John kept getting kinda jealous at whale-Sam XD (and probably Sam Carter as well).

Yes, you figured it out pretty quickly that it was the whales giving them the hallucinations. The only question was why. And it was neither expected or stupid. And let's all be happy they didn't nerf Atlantis even more by depleting our one and only ZPM.

It's a "filler"-episode, yes, as it doesn't pertain to the current war against the Asurans and the on-off war against the Wraith, but it was a great episode, nonetheless. We can't have all episodes be linear.

neoncrazy101
November 28th, 2006, 11:20 AM
only thing i didn't like...was the giving the ZPM to the odyssey...cause i mean... their ending SG-1 so why give away stuff...unless we get it back...hmmm

Alipeeps
November 28th, 2006, 11:44 AM
But John had a line about the intergalactic bridge and how they couldn't use it because the midway station wasn't done...which unless Landry really did blow it up seems to contradict the events of The Return.


McKay stated they couldn't use the gate bridge to evacuate to Earth because the midway station wasn't finished so they would have to shuttle people by jumper and there wasn't enough time. Meaning that - as I had assumed from Return Part II - Landry hadn't blown up the midway station yet and that it is still as we saw it in Return Part I - a basic framework open to space. The only way to use it therefore is to be in a jumper.

What I found interesting is that from McKay's comment we learn that they do intend to finish the midway station, as in turning it into a proper space-station enclosing the gates, meaning that people could actually use the gate bridge on foot! Coolness! Of course, based on certain spoilers, it'll probably never happen but still.. cool that that was their intention.


Giving up all 3 ZPMs was stupid as hell! They should have just found a way to fix the star drive and got Atlantis the hell out of the Pegasus Galaxy.

Well, they've already discussed the issue of simply leaving the Pegasus galaxy before - it's not just about them anymore. They woke up the Wraith and the entire galaxy is having to deal with that... they do have a certain responsibility to stay and try and help those people to deal with/defeat the Wraith. And they didn't give up all 3 ZPMs.. they shared them out. Kept 1 for Atlantis, 1 for Earth and 1 for the Odyssey.


only thing i didn't like...was the giving the ZPM to the odyssey...cause i mean... their ending SG-1 so why give away stuff...unless we get it back...hmmm

In the context of the show, there is no such thing as "SG1 ending". Sure, the show has been cancelled but that doesn't mean Earth and the SGC cease to exist! You can't use that as an argument as to why Atlantis shouldn't give Earth a ZPM.. "Oh well, they're being cancelled anyway so why bother.." :D

Iguana775
November 28th, 2006, 11:46 AM
She might not have had much of a choice. She did say (I think) that it wasn't up to her and I'm prettysure that she and Sheppard aren't really in the best of standing with SGC and the IOA at the moment.

Exactly.

Weir has bosses too. It's not like she can stick her fingers in her ear and ignore the IOA.

Personally, I like the idea of using 2 of the ZPMs to help out earth and the Oddy.

ShoDar
November 28th, 2006, 12:00 PM
McKay stated they couldn't use the gate bridge to evacuate to Earth because the midway station wasn't finished so they would have to shuttle people by jumper and there wasn't enough time. Meaning that - as I had assumed from Return Part II - Landry hadn't blown up the midway station yet and that it is still as we saw it in Return Part I - a basic framework open to space. The only way to use it therefore is to be in a jumper.

Ooops, I could have sworn that was John who said that... interesting how the two of them meld in my head sometimes ;)
Ah, that makes more sense then. I thought they were planning to leave it open like it was in The Return. I wonder if the fact that everybody hates filing in the jumper influenced that design.

Vash
November 28th, 2006, 12:44 PM
Well atleast know of a possbile big battle at the end of SG-1 witht the two ZPMs.

Ltcolshepjumper
November 28th, 2006, 12:45 PM
Exactly.

Weir has bosses too. It's not like she can stick her fingers in her ear and ignore the IOA.

Personally, I like the idea of using 2 of the ZPMs to help out earth and the Oddy.

I support the idea of giving one to the Antarctic Outpost. what I don't like is them giving it to the Oddy. It's not like it will help. All it will do is give the Oddy more time to run away. It's not like the Odyssey will actually ever win a battle with an Ori ship, and 1 ZPM will only boost their shields. What they need are better weapons, not a stronger shield. It doesn't matter how strong Oddy's shields are, if her weapons aren't effective then there's no point in even fighting. Giving away 2 ZPM's was stupid.

theonebluegecko
November 28th, 2006, 12:52 PM
My question is, will they get back one of the ZPMs? They must have depleted a good bit of it attacking solar flairs. But, maybe I just underestimate the power of the ZPMs.



On another note I have to saw it was nice to see the psychologist lady again (I cannot spell her name and do not feel like looking up the spelling), I though that she was gone forever.

It was nice to actually have an episode where Teyla at least had a somewhat significant role.

And it was nice to have a basic simple episode after the Returns and some of the more chaotic episodes from earlier in the season, it was a nice break.

xfkirsten
November 28th, 2006, 01:03 PM
Loved this one!! I'm a big fan of the whale storyline, and it was so much fun to see an episode put so much focus on them. Actually, I found it very interesting how much real science they incorporated into this - they did a wonderful job of blending the biology of Earth whales with a bit of fantasy to make it just different enough to make them alien, but still very familiar.

I also loved that the magnetite as a mental map got a mention! That's one of my favorite areas of migration biology. My only complaint would be that they made it seem uncommon - many species on Earth have magnetite particles in their bodies that are likely used in navigation. Many migratory species (especially birds) rely on it as a navigational aid (along with sun position, temperature, physical landmarks, etc).

I would also like to point out that I got a huge laugh out of the sonar hurting humans like that. Considering that the sonar programs currently being tested by the military may be having a very serious effect on whale health, it was deliciously ironic to see the whale sonar hurting people in this case. ;) Check out this (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/03/0331_040331_whalesincrisis.html) National Geographic article for just one of the many examples! The last paragraph on page one is the most relevant to this episode:

At the time 14 beaked whales became beached on the same day that U.S. Navy destroyers where engaged in a sonar exercise. CAT scans of two heads collected from six whales that died confirmed later that the whales experienced hemorrhaging around the brain and ears.
Sound familiar? ;)

Yes, I am a zoology geek. :p

Aside from the whale aspect, the story moved along very nicely! It kept you on the edge of your seat, and had some nice character moments along the way. I really loved Ronon's attempts at meditation, and John and Rodney's quarreling (and of course the Meredith joke! ;)).

I do agree, though, that it was odd that they thought Teyla was going crazy when she saw things. It's happened enough in the past, especially with the Wraith, that you'd think they'd take her a bit more seriously.

Good episode all around!

Merlin7
November 28th, 2006, 01:19 PM
Awesome ep. I think I loved everything and everyone except for Heightmeyer. She just felt wrong in the ep. But everything else was perfect and Sheppard gets more gorgeous with every ep.

jenks
November 28th, 2006, 01:26 PM
One of the best eps so for this season imo, the only thing that annoyed me was the fact that we didn't find out how much energy the ZPM had left...

HyperCaz
November 28th, 2006, 02:00 PM
I really liked this one :) Nice to see the whales again and some amusing character interaction. Wasn't like I was expecting (well not hard...I was expected it to be like Red Dwarf's Future Echoes but it wasn't :D ). Really cool effects at the end there.

two caps :)

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/HyperCaz/Echoes%20Gen/echoesblast.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/HyperCaz/Echoes%20Gen/echoeswhale.jpg

HyperCaz
November 28th, 2006, 02:25 PM
plus one icky cap :D

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/HyperCaz/Echoes%20Gen/echoesburn.jpg

saberhagen83
November 28th, 2006, 02:34 PM
I though this was a really great ep! So much good stuff in this one. Finally I feel that ALL the characters got their fair share of screentime, and they all had something to do in this one. Loved the Teyla/Ronon moments, even though I'm no shipper what so ever :), I just think they work well on screen. Also enjoyed the Sheppard/Rodney/Zelenka moments. Overall, some really funny scenes, some excitement, whales...great to see them back again :D. Hoping the writing will keep going like this, so everyoe on the show gets something to do. Another great S3 episode, hope it will never end with those!

theonebluegecko
November 28th, 2006, 02:52 PM
I really liked this one :) Nice to see the whales again and some amusing character interaction. Wasn't like I was expecting (well not hard...I was expected it to be like Red Dwarf's Future Echoes but it wasn't :D ). Really cool effects at the end there.



Yeah a bit off from Future Echoes, but good nevertheless.

Arctic Penguin
November 28th, 2006, 02:56 PM
I really enjoyed this ep all characters got screentime. The teyla and ronan meditation bits were really funny, ronan sulking was great as well. I loved the teasing shep gave mckay to see if he could hear him. The merideth comment was a great throw back to m&mm.:)

Willow'sCat
November 28th, 2006, 03:21 PM
I thought it was a great episode. Very slashable how John kept getting kinda jealous at whale-Sam XD (and probably Sam Carter as well).Well if it wasn't for the slash banter between John & Rodney, this would have been less enjoyable for me. Although some really gorgeous Rodney moments will have me re-watching this one. :) Also very cute they stand out on "their" balcony again... twice.

It was nice to see all the characters *even Zelenka* on screen and being used for really good reasons, although Heightmyer (?) seemed out of place, I almost thought she was part of the hallucinations from the rubbish she was sprouting... she really has a degree? :rolleyes: :S I also liked seeing the Whales, although they were a little underused but what are you going to do with Whales anyway... other then eat them *thanks John* :rolleyes:

Nice eppy but very much a filler.


people forget that the whole point of the Atlantis Expedition is to bring back technology for Earth to defend itself. I don't see Atlantis like that, yes before John woke the Wraith up that was a plausible reason for going, although I still think it was more to learn about The Ancients then to find shiny new weapons... but whatever, I don't pay that much attention.

I think now it is very justifiable to say what Atlantis finds that can be used to defend it should be used to defend it, as everyone keeps saying WE are at war. Why should Earth be anymore important then Atlantis? Yes it is nice to have the Deddy come visit with supplies but they survived before and would with three ZPMs again with no contact with Earth.

They have made it clear that they consider Atlantis to be their home now, not Earth. I understand tptb need to find easy answers for both shows and why not have one show help the other out *while it is still on the air* but come on we do need more then one ZPM, we will in all likelihood lose this one soon, well it does keep happening... one minute we have a fully functioning ZPM the next it is depleted or blown up or something. I bet if we lose this one Earth will think twice before handing one of the other two back over. :cool: And remember The Wraith could still easily come to Earth through Atlantis, it needs to be defended as much as Earth. Also the PG has a heck of a lot more people or people like aliens then The Milky Way in the bigger scheme of things PG is more important. Of course this is all my personal opinion on a fictional show. :rolleyes:

bluealien
November 28th, 2006, 03:40 PM
Fantastic ep - loved every moment of it.

Everyone got some great screentime.

One of the best eps of the season.

Who needs guest stars when we have this wonderful cast and to think that TPTB are messing with something so great.

theonebluegecko
November 28th, 2006, 03:41 PM
It was nice to see all the characters *even Zelenka* on screen and being used for really good reasons, although Heightmyer (?) seemed out of place, I almost thought she was part of the hallucinations from the rubbish she was sprouting... she really has a degree? :rolleyes: :S


I agree Heightmeyer seemed kind of out of place. But as for her "rubbish" I think that partly it was a hard situation to deal with because she did not really know that what they were seeing was not actually real. In her experience on Atlantis either explanation, that they were delusions or real, was possible, so I think that she was just trying to be careful in deciding how to react.

Either that or during the 6 weeks back on earth she had a tragic brain injury and was left partly impaired.

Alipeeps
November 28th, 2006, 03:53 PM
Fantastic ep - loved every moment of it.

Everyone got some great screentime.

One of the best eps of the season.

Who needs guest stars when we have this wonderful cast and to think that TPTB are messing with something so great.

Exactly. This episode just goes to show that it is entirely possible to have a good episode where every member of the core cast (and even two of the recurring cast members) can have proper development in the episode and contribute something to the storyline. Awesomeness. Every single member of the core cast had some lovely character moments in this ep and had an involvement in the story and it was great.

neoncrazy101
November 28th, 2006, 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by neoncrazy101 View Post
only thing i didn't like...was the giving the ZPM to the odyssey...cause i mean... their ending SG-1 so why give away stuff...unless we get it back...hmmm

In the context of the show, there is no such thing as "SG1 ending". Sure, the show has been cancelled but that doesn't mean Earth and the SGC cease to exist! You can't use that as an argument as to why Atlantis shouldn't give Earth a ZPM.. "Oh well, they're being cancelled anyway so why bother.." :D

SHHHHHH lol

sgeureka
November 28th, 2006, 04:54 PM
I think now it is very justifiable to say what Atlantis finds that can be used to defend it should be used to defend it, as everyone keeps saying WE are at war. Why should Earth be anymore important then Atlantis? Yes it is nice to have the Deddy come visit with supplies but they survived before and would with three ZPMs again with no contact with Earth.Because 6 billion people live on Earth, and only a hundred(?) in Atlantis? :) (Not to mention that they'd have to do without their paycheck if Earth gets blown up... But they've endured this before...)


They have made it clear that they consider Atlantis to be their home now, not Earth. I understand tptb need to find easy answers for both shows and why not have one show help the other out *while it is still on the air* but come on we do need more then one ZPM, we will in all likelihood lose this one soon, well it does keep happening... one minute we have a fully functioning ZPM the next it is depleted or blown up or something. I bet if we lose this one Earth will think twice before handing one of the other two back over. :cool: And remember The Wraith could still easily come to Earth through Atlantis, it needs to be defended as much as Earth.If it was up to me, I'd have said one ZPM for Atlantis, one for Earth, and one for where it was required the most at the moment. Whether that's Atlantis or a space ship depends on the story. (And we all know when Atlantis needs the second ZPM at the beginning of a story, it won't have it.)

CalmStorm
November 28th, 2006, 05:10 PM
Total filler episode. Giving away two of the three ZPMs was a total cop-out. We already freaking established that Ancient weapons were ineffective against Ori, so why does Earth need TWO of them? Oh, I forgot, Atlantis can't be too powerful, that's why!

At the same time, it has to be give and take with Atlantis. The primary goal is to aquire new technology to protect Earth, not those in Pegasus Galaxy. Sure our heros want to save the Pegasus Galaxy and everyone, but they are in Atlantis courtesy of the powers to be on Earth.

Atlantis should be able to sustain shields and the like with a fully charged zpm. Sure it would be nice to have three, but for their purposes they can make do with the one.

The Ori are a very real threat to Earth, but they are not the only threat. It makes sense to have a zpm power the defenses in the Antartica base for extra measure. Also, certainly they can find someone else with a strong gene to try and gain much more information from the chair there.

The ships in the Milky Way don't seem even remotely able to hold their own against the Ori ships. It makes sense to have at least one earth vessle with extra protection that a zpm can supply.

ZPMs are a valuable resource with many uses. It would almost be selfish for Atlantis to keep them all. This also is a way to prove the value of Atlantis and why it is worth the cost to those funding it. Also, there is no reason that the team cannot continue their search for more.

prion
November 28th, 2006, 05:24 PM
Immediate thoughts as I watch the ep:

Nice to see Ronon actually be something other than stoic - I *liked* seeing him annoyed and pissy in the jumper! :D
Teyla kicking Ronon's ass at stick-fighting! Go Teyla!! :D
BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG fat reset button to beat em all - have to admit to a little bit of disappointment that everything is magically back to normal at Atlantis with no sign of the Earth expedition ever even being gone and no repercussions of the rescue - not even a mention of Sheppard being even told off!
Sheppard-McKay banter and teasing! Loving it! :D
Weir calling referring to Sheppard and McKay as "boys". Awesome. :D
Heightmeyer looked much better as a blonde - being brunette makes her look pale and drawn.
Sheppard making anti-Canadian comments to test if Rodney is still deaf!! *BWAH!*
Sheppard and McKay talking at the tops of their voices all the time! :lol:
"Just like a pigeon"!! :lol:
Oh my - the sparky fans are gonna LOVE Sheppard carrying Weir to the infirmary!
Wow. Found myself actually tensing up as the solar flare thingy hit the Daedalus!
Hmmm.. the whole "Ronon doesn't understand technobabble so say it in simple words of one syllable" joke is getting a bit old. He's not dumb for crying out loud...
DeafWeir(TM. Heh. :D
)

All in all. Good ep. I enjoyed it. :D


Gotta admit, agree with all of it. The pigeon remark was great, and Zelenka raced pigeons? We're getting insight on him, finally! :)

Must admit I liked when Rodney went splat on the jumper's control panel.

Someone asked. According to various reports on teh web, takes about a month to heal up punctured eardrums. Keep water out, so, no swimming. Not sure how it would affect flying.

The three ZPMs. Well, let's see. The entire team stole a jumper, disobeyed orders, but saved Jack's ass but, they disobeyed orders. So.... swap a ZPM for clearing the charge?

I can see putting a ZPM into a new ship. Speed for rescue, etc. The antaractic? That's sorta lame, in some respects. If you kept two Zpms at Atlantis, they could send one back through the gate in no time flat. But, then there's the disobeying orders stuff. Could the Ori get to earth that quick that they'd need a Zpm immediateLY?

Oh, I did like the whales, but Shep's eyeing 'em as sushi. ARGH!!!

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
November 28th, 2006, 05:28 PM
Just finished watching it, the ending was awesome with the beam of light hitting the Daedalus' shields. It was cool hearing Shep call Rodney, Meredith. And the visual effects were pretty cool, but nothing compares to the one from last weeks episode. Overall it wasn't as good as last week's episode. I give it a ** 1/2.

prion
November 28th, 2006, 05:33 PM
Exactly. This episode just goes to show that it is entirely possible to have a good episode where every member of the core cast (and even two of the recurring cast members) can have proper development in the episode and contribute something to the storyline. Awesomeness. Every single member of the core cast had some lovely character moments in this ep and had an involvement in the story and it was great.

Carl Binder wrote the story, and Carl and Brad Wright wrote the script; therefore, carl Binder must write more. He's got the best handle on the characters that I've seen.

PG15
November 28th, 2006, 06:45 PM
Solid, solid episode. Not extraordinary by any means, but you can't have that all the time. ;)

There are many MANY good character moments in this ep, like the Ronan/Teyla scenes ("you can hit me with this" :D), and of course, the Shep and McKay scenes were up to their usual snarktasticivity. ;)

So, some points:

Twists, twists, and twists. I had no idea what this episode about, and boy did it take some time before I actually figured it out (about the time when Shep and McKay spelled out their plan). I'm really slow with this sort of stuff. But really, I thought maybe that the Ancient pilot thing meant that the malfunctioning jumper was going to blow up, or maybe the Whales were messing up the jumper, etc. Like I said, this episode just kept on going with the mini-revelations, just like in Season 1.

Good to see a few things mentioned/seen again, like (obviously) the whales, Heightmeier (sp?), Meredith...huh, I'm sure there are more. Well anyway, I liked this part.

Gotta love the deaf-ness gag. Loudness is always funny. :D

SFX was great in the last bits. Love the astronomy stuff.

I was actually afraid that they were going to drain the ZPM again, but nope. I thought 3 ZPMs might be a little too much, and I have no problems with no ZPMs at all. But just the thought of hearing fanboys (:p) complaining about the "lost ZPMs" is giving me a headache. I'm glad they kept it.

Zelenkie! :D

Exploration! :D

Not much more to say about this episode, very solid, very entertaining, and hopefully a shape of things to come.

8/10

Dromag67
November 28th, 2006, 06:54 PM
Weren't people complaining because Atlantis never procured weapons to defend Earth as was stated the objective in the pilot episode?

Now that the Atlantis Expedition finds 3 ZPM's and uses 2 to defend Earth all of a sudden people are angry that they dont have a fully operational City ship to go kick Wraith ***?

:mckay:

PG15
November 28th, 2006, 07:27 PM
I think now it is very justifiable to say what Atlantis finds that can be used to defend it should be used to defend it, as everyone keeps saying WE are at war. Why should Earth be anymore important then Atlantis? Yes it is nice to have the Deddy come visit with supplies but they survived before and would with three ZPMs again with no contact with Earth.

That's awfully selfish and childish (we found it, so it's ours!). So the few hundred people making up the Expedition is suddenly more important than 6 billion on Earth? :confused:


They have made it clear that they consider Atlantis to be their home now, not Earth.

They're all human, they have people they know back home. I seriously don't get why some suddenly thinks Earth is expendable.


Also the PG has a heck of a lot more people or people like aliens then The Milky Way in the bigger scheme of things PG is more important.

No it doesn't. PG is smaller, and the people have been culled by the Wraith for nigh-on 10000 years. They'll be lucky if they have a thousandth the amount of people as in the MW.


Of course this is all my personal opinion on a fictional show. :rolleyes:

:D


Odyssey might last a little bit longer VS an Ori ship with a ZPM, won't change anything though they'll just die slower :)

Right, like a few extra seconds never saved anybody's life. :p





I don't like that they started this episode by explaining how they lost the deal with the ZPMs either. It just felt cheap, like they had to throw that in somewhere, without really explaining it. I don't like that Weir totally bent over either and was all right with it either. She's supposed to be the leader of Atlantis and shouldn't just give away ZPMs left and right.

Yeah, left and right...to her own people. No problems here.

EDIT:


If you kept two Zpms at Atlantis, they could send one back through the gate in no time flat.

What if the Ori decides to dial in, like with what Anubis did?

We'll be screwed then. :p

theonebluegecko
November 28th, 2006, 08:23 PM
That's awfully selfish and childish (we found it, so it's ours!). So the few hundred people making up the Expedition is suddenly more important than 6 billion on Earth? :confused:



They're all human, they have people they know back home. I seriously don't get why some suddenly thinks Earth is expendable.



Yes but what if they did get rid of earth, that would be a shock. Although probably a bad one.

PG15
November 28th, 2006, 08:27 PM
That would definately be "risk-taking".

However, one of the appeals of Stargate is that it's everyday people doing out-of-this-world things. Take the world away and...it'll loose that appeal. ;)

theonebluegecko
November 28th, 2006, 08:29 PM
That would definately be "risk-taking".

However, one of the appeals of Stargate is that it's everyday people doing out-of-this-world things. Take the world away and...it'll loose that appeal. ;)

Yeah, I like the fact that it is close to life as we know it. It does make it feel as if it could be real, that you could actually go to another planet, another galaxy.

That is one of the things that makes it great.

(And I think one of the reasons I do not like Battlestar Galactica as much, it is just not life as I know it.)

Detox
November 28th, 2006, 09:47 PM
Well, although I'm saddened by the fact that we won't get to see a fully operational Atlantis. At least we have 3 fully charged ZPMs. Now that the Atlantis Expedition has been justified (if 3 ZPMs aren't enough, then I don't know what is), now the IOA should support Atlantis even more.

At least now if Atlantis really needs it, they can get both Earth's and Oddy's ZPMs and fully power their shields.

Hell, just be glad we actually GOT those ZPMs. It could've been worse, we could've gotten nothing.

JayShadow
November 28th, 2006, 10:26 PM
Yeah, I'm just glad they still HAVE 3 ZPMs. When they first explained where the ZPMs were going I assumed all 3 were still on the station, so when the flare was coming I figured as usual that they'd extend the shield all the way and deplete the ZPMs to nothing and start from scratch AGAIN. So the fact that they're still in possession of 3 of them out there somewhere is a major bonus in a universe that usually mashes the reset button at every turn. Sure it's a reset for the base, but they still have access to the others sometime if needed.

They'll never get them back again, but it's nice that they actually let them exist out there :P

Stef
November 28th, 2006, 10:31 PM
Finally got around to watching the episode...here are some of my thoughts:

-Not a huge Spanky fan but even I was rooting for Ronon/Teyla after seeing all of this episode's little moments between them.
-FINALLY, some non-menacing/stoic Ronon action
-Good to see Teyla getting some quality screentime
-Nice moment between Teyla/Ronon when she lay dying
-Good old McShep back to their old selves....LOVED their scenes (yes, screaming is funny :))
-The Sparky fan in me was happy to see John carrying Elizabeth
-Cute little moment at the end when John says "without so much as a thank you" in reference to the whales and Elizabeth replying "No, thank you." Expressions from John and Zelenka were priceless.
-Rodney's putting his fist up, trying to be all macho and military only to have John slap it down (awwww, Rodney wants to be cool like Sheppard).
-Love all of the interplay between John/Rodney/Elizabeth
-YES, some Teyla/Elizabeth scenes. That happens, what, once in a blue moon?

Negative points....like many have said-Heitmeyer (sp?). She just seemed really off...maybe it's the hair change :)

Overall, a really enjoyable episode. They should make more solid showings like this.

-Stef

Sicktem
November 28th, 2006, 11:08 PM
I don't get what the big appeal of a fully powered Atlantis is when the stardrive is damaged. There's no way they are going to be able to fix that. It's underwater, it covers a vast amount of space, and it's highly advanced technology. So far they've fixed things that weren't operational, made some minor repairs here and there, but gathering large amounts of Ancient metals and supplies to fix that thing that's underwater is a bit beyond them. Large portions of the city were already damaged and they have left them alone. It's only after the Asurans started fixing them have they been granted access to some of them.

I'm sure at some point in the future it will get done either by some plotline like this one where by the Asurans did the work for them or (maybe) when they have a better understanding of the technology and get the Asgard to help them replicate the materials needed. But as of the near future it's just not happening. So, Atlantis would be sitting around with fully powered shields that an Asuran fleet could probably still penetrate while teams went off world and nothing changed. Even if the Wraith attacked, all they could do is fire their drones until there are none left and sit back while they are fired upon. Meanwhile, though, all it takes is one more invasion (anyone want to count how many there have been so far?) and they can all be lost - Putting all your eggs in one basket is extremely stupid.

This way, Earth has a fighting chance if the Ori attack and not only does the Odyssey have a shot at withstanding a few shots, but it can fly through hyperspace at extreme speeds. If Sg-1 needs a pickup they can be there in hours instead of days, they can jump ahead of enemies and get to their destinations first to set up traps, and if Atlantis needs an extra ship one is only days away now. Meanwhile, if Atlantis needs the ZPMs back they can send one through the stargate, hook the other back up to the Odyssey and be right there to make sure the city is fully powered again. There are dangers (like with Monday's episode) to not having 3 ZPMs, but this way also opens new doors for everyone.

Oh and btw, Weir didn't cave to the pressure of giving the 2 ZPMs away. She looked and sounded like she really agreed that Earth needed those ZPMs more than Atlantis and even got angry with Mckay one point and harshly asked him who they should deny a ZPM to. Atlantis may have become a home to these people, but there is a large leap in priorities between your home and your 6 billion large civilization and the second they forget that is the second they've gone mad and should be replaced by the IOA right away.

sgeureka
November 29th, 2006, 03:33 AM
Re: Giving one ZPM to Earth

Let's also not forget that the now depleted ZPM from Atlantis came from Earth originally, and Earth said Atlantis needed it more back then. Now the enemy situation has changed in the Milky Way as well as in PG, so the ZPMs will be where they are needed the most. And that might not be Atlantis.

ZPM_Plant
November 29th, 2006, 04:16 AM
Okay....So my faith is restored in Stargate Atlantis......For me echoes was just the opposite in tempo....plot.....and character development from The Return II.......the suspense seemed real! And there are now new elements to explore that bring interesting possibilities.

For example....

What else can we get the whales (i.e. sam) to remember from the genetic memory about the ancients? I guess we'll have to just wait for episode 18 "submersion."

Anyone feel the same?

IWantToBelieve
November 29th, 2006, 04:45 AM
I was really disappointed in Carl Binder as a writer for the show because there were two episodes I really felt he tanked last season. Condemned and The Hive -- however, I have to take it back. I still have problems with those two shows, but I think he's completely found his element with writing. He does write the characters and the bonds they have better than anyone else. All of those moments really enhance the show and make it into something more than what it was in season one and two. This season we are seeing how they've become much like a family and it's truly awesome.

I loved the opening scene. Grumpy Ronon, classic! Then the Ronon/Teyla scenes, again, they were fantastic. The McKay-Sheppard, oh yes, these two guys are buddies and it's being written so awesomely this season. I'm so thankful they found that groove again this season.

Everyone got to *do* something, and be a part of the episode and it didn't feel forced.

I only have a couple of nits...

*that Sheppard and McKay didn't stay sick when everyone else was getting worse.
*that they never saw the projected images

But those are just tiny little things and didn't take away from it at all for me. My love for this episode is great! :)

phili
November 29th, 2006, 05:18 AM
very nice Episode (coooool Episode)! :cool: ;) :)

Astrofighter
November 29th, 2006, 06:46 AM
Uhh, if you noticed in this episode the daed was able to withstand a mass ejection for several minutes. The only issue was the build up of heat that is caused by it on the ship. The shields were holding just fine, just the shields dont protect againist radiant heat it would appear.

The ori's weapons in comparison last about one second then take a while to recharge and fire again. Personally I think a zpm powered shield can hold out againist them indefinetely.

GateLadyM
November 29th, 2006, 06:49 AM
My favorite episode of the season so far. I'm not into "shipping" but I'm now sold on the Ronon/Teyla thing. Those two are just too cute together and bring out more in each other's characters than their interactions with others. I've been terribly bored with Teyla this year but she really is alive in scenes with Ronon. Keep them together!

FallenAngelII
November 29th, 2006, 07:21 AM
While we're just remaining in Pegasus mostly to require Ancient technology, we also owe the Pegasus Galaxy a great debt.

We came, we saw, we awoke the Wraith. We did it under the American unwritten rules of "No man left behind". We awoke the Wraith and because of that, thousands, probably millions of people have died prematurely (we also created civil war within the Wraith).

Just skimping out now would be cowardly.

obsessed1
November 29th, 2006, 08:31 AM
I loved this episode but am i right in thinking that this episode had a completely different feel from the the others...I dont know, maybe it was the humour or something, but it felt like it was filmed different or something. Might just be me though!!!

I loved how funny it was. Shep and Mckay in the infirmary was hilarious and the bit with mckay explaining everything and then at the end Shep looking around and going "WHAT?" and shep pushing down Mckays fist when he tried to do stop!!! in hand language. LOL!!!

I thought this was a nice concept, fairly original, nicely scripted with loads of team interaction and everyone playing a major part. I also thought that it gave that creepy feel.....the ghosts were disturbing after all!!!!

I cant really fault it anf It shows exactly how ALL of the cast can be utilised in an episode!! no-one was left out!!! (Okay, maybe lorne was? but who cares.)

I might watch it again already :D

Elinor
November 29th, 2006, 08:32 AM
This was an enjoyable eppy from start to finish!

Loved how everyone was involved. Ronon and Dr.Z on a camping trip! Heh!! The Shep/McKay banter was fab...especially in the infirmary scene...the shouting, the 'not hearing' and then the infirmary breakout!! Teyla/Ronon...quality screen time for them. Elizabeth's mishearing at the end...oh...there were lots of fun things here.

Nice we're getting 'watery' stories to...there's enough of it to explore!!

I'm loving s3 so much!!

:)

Jeyla4ever
November 29th, 2006, 08:52 AM
I think we've seen better episodes this season, but by far this is on the top of the list. I liked the idea of the whales and the connection of the ancients....it was a good sound explanation.

I love when they do episodes with the entire main cast incorporated evenly. I just wish they had mixed it up a bit, but overall....it made sense. On a side, it really brought out the old friendships that were very much there in Season 2...Ronon/Teyla and Rodney/John

Teyla is one of the characters that interacts beautifully with all of them...But in this case, and from my perspective, no one else but Ronon could be at Teyla's side at this time..... ...Ronon was so cute and so thoughtful....For me, it continued that brotherly/sisterly vibe...Ronon could be seen as having maybe something more than that...but I didn't see the same giddy look in Teyla's eyes...during the sparring, the meditation and their infirmary scenes...she acted more like a big sister watching her younger brother look after her.......but that's just me...

Rodney and John...gosh I missed those two...they are great together....and so different between the dynamic of John and Ronon....it was great to see this duo back in action. Clearly, John started this thing with Rodney because at first he saw a friend interested in this and he wanted to support him......
very cute...

Elizabeth was great in here.....her reasons for not keeping the other ZPM's were logical and were spot on......and I love how she tried to reason with Rodney and in the end, put on her leader face...no more emails..LOVE IT.

She was on top of everything and everyone....the only thing that I would point out slightly..and it wasn't even that much...that they she didn't pay more importance to Teyla when she first came to share her experiences....and even after they didn't make the connection between the whales and the visions until much later when Teyla was saying it all along....
But, oh...well it just shows you how Teyla is still seen as just an indegenous native of the Pegasus Galaxy..I mean Ronon I can understand..left and right they are making him so much like the dumb brawny guy...which I hate btw...but not Teyla...she repeatedly makes great suggestions but only John seems to listen to her or even care about what she says....sad....I wonder why they need to go there...

Zelenka was adorable...I loved his expressions while in the control room over seeing the boys in the puddle jumper...Great acting!

Carson...poor Carson....not only did he have his infirmary full..he was affected too...

Heightmeiyer...I have no clue what her purpose was besides make her look like she has seen too many patients and should go back to Earth and take a break. She drilled to much at the possibility of something being wrong with Teyla and then Weir and even when the others had it too...she still looked confused....I know she's a shrink but even shrinks should be smart enough to know that this can't be a coincidence...even Rodney and John figured that out with just the two of them getting affected....What a shame...again..you wonder why these writers are incapacitating females so often.

Caldwell was great....It amazes me that he was willing to go on another suicide mission so willingly and yet a ship full of sick people....hmmmm...

prion
November 29th, 2006, 09:03 AM
Just another favorite scene (paraphrased) discussing the gender of the whale (aka "Sam" - ha, boy, Rodney dodged that bullet quickly!)

Weir: "How do you know he is a he?"
McKay: "Well, he's got this rather large--"

and Weir and Shep, as I recall, cut him off. Snort. ;)

lunarleviathan
November 29th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I loved this episode but am i right in thinking that this episode had a completely different feel from the the others...I dont know, maybe it was the humour or something, but it felt like it was filmed different or something. Might just be me though!!!


Yes, I noticed this aswell. I'm pretty sure it was to do with the camera work, perhaps someone knowledgeable would be able to point out why it seemed different.

Arctic Goddess
November 29th, 2006, 09:29 AM
Because 6 billion people live on Earth, and only a hundred(?) in Atlantis? :) (Not to mention that they'd have to do without their paycheck if Earth gets blown up... But they've endured this before...)

If it was up to me, I'd have said one ZPM for Atlantis, one for Earth, and one for where it was required the most at the moment. Whether that's Atlantis or a space ship depends on the story. (And we all know when Atlantis needs the second ZPM at the beginning of a story, it won't have it.)

That is so funny. "They'd have to do without a paycheck." I love that.

The Ori
November 29th, 2006, 09:29 AM
I kinda liked it, I just got the HD version now, and the quality is amazing! The story is funny and I can't believe Sam was in it!!

Pitry
November 29th, 2006, 09:48 AM
Seriously, if they keep on going in that raet, I'll run out of positive adjectives to describe SGA episodes.

Zelenca should wear more shirts liek that. He looked so lovely in the PJ! *shallow* very amusing moment there with Ronon and Sheppard and Zelenca. Now that's the kind of little character moments SGA needs.
So they actually can fit Teyla and Ronon into an episode! Hooray! There's hope for them yet... ;)

I just loved Rodney and the whale. I half expected him to call it "Lassy" (sp? Y'know, the dog.) but I guess "Sam" works out as well, mwahaha. Entertainiend by Sheppard being creeped out by it. Overall Sheppard and McKay were lvoely in this episode! When they're checking for the lab, and Rodney doing all the handsigns.... Or in the infirmary, with the "Celine Dion is overrated! Zelenca is smarter than you!" ha!

Silly flashbacks/ warnings, I must admit, but it really was nice how it all tied up together.

So, SG1's now got 2 out of SGa's ZPMs. Wonder when they'll mention it, prolly in Line in the Sand?
Dominion speculations I guess this means theOrii attack Earth in Dominion,a nd I'm strting to get the feeling the Odyssey is going to follow the Prometheus and Korolev... hmmm!

I was surprised they had any money left whatsoever for visual effects in this episode, after the amazing sequences in The Return 2, but they were still great. Silly solution, and yet they were great. Both the sun and the whales. We should have more whale episodes.

Yup, definitely shippy vibes from Ronon and Teyla there.... sigh. I'mnot sure I'm happy with it, I'd have lived so much better without any ship whatsoever - especially not the John/Teyla/Ronon/Elizabeth hectagon they're creating.
Speaking of Elizabeth, loved her again in this episode. She's so lvoely :) So was Carson... who didn't have a large role in this but whatever he had he was lovely in.

The only thing I didn't like: Hartmeier. She's getting on my nerves. Kill her! Now! please? Or no more psychologist episodes. Please please? Pretty please?

Other than that... fantabulous.

Pitry
November 29th, 2006, 09:54 AM
As for the Earth ZPM discussion - no, Earth defibntiely needs that ZPM. SG1 are now the most affective power to fight for the MW. If Earth fals, obviously SG1 falls with it, and then the rest of the MW is soon to follow. If MW falls... PEgasus is next. Earth's only defense is the Antarctica outpost, which makes perfect sense for them to send the ZPM there. Not to mention that I think 6 out fo the main 8 characters would object to have Earth fall to the Orii...

As for the Carl Binder discussion, I officially name him a small deity ;)

Caldwell's 2IC
November 29th, 2006, 10:00 AM
Caldwell was great....It amazes me that he was willing to go on another suicide mission so willingly and yet a ship full of sick people....hmmmm...

See why I love the guy ? ;)

tfalls1
November 29th, 2006, 10:43 AM
I was disappointed in the flashback "vision" of finally seeing Ancients heal one of their own they seemed pretty clueless. If you freeze frame you actually see a pair of plastic scissers on the exam table the Ancients are using to remove the Pilot's coat. They showed a bunch standing around seeming to be dumb struck as how to heal burns. Where was the Ancient Healing Powers??

Quinn Mallory
November 29th, 2006, 11:34 AM
For awhile there (first 5 minutes or so), I thought this was going to be a bad "ghost" episode but I was more than pleasantly surprised by the rest of the episode with the various connections drawn between the "whales" and Ancients. I like the extra screen time for Teyla and Ronan. Also enjoyed the extra does of Zelenka and his pigeon racing story and the presence of Dr. Heitmeyer. Having Sheppard come up with the solution rather than McKay was also a nice change of pace. Just when I noticed that there was a new Asian guy in the control room, he turned out to be (the only?) casualty.

Falcon Horus
November 29th, 2006, 11:42 AM
Once and for all, it's H-E-I-G-H-T-M-E-Y-E-R, Kate Heightmeyer.

I love that character to bits. Have yet to see Echoes but she deserves some respect.

Thank you.

Pitry
November 29th, 2006, 11:55 AM
Once and for all, it's H-E-I-G-H-T-M-E-Y-E-R, Kate Heightmeyer.

I love that character to bits. Have yet to see Echoes but she deserves some respect.

Thank you.

sorry *sheepish*.
She's still annoying tho, whatever her name is ;)

Psyku
November 29th, 2006, 12:20 PM
episode was a bit trekky for me do it was kind of a dissapointment. and besides was hoping for a more positive episode.

okay so now we have around the 10 000 years a giant wave and around the 15 000 years a sun spike wicht looked kind of unatural to me to straight a line.

humor was fun do for the rest to chaotic. just 1 thing i wonderd about the asurans ship it was used to rebuild the tower. what remains of that ship none te less and did it have a power source. wanna know why they did'n exploid that ??

The_Tsid.
November 29th, 2006, 12:45 PM
I was never a fan of animal stories. For me, the episode was silly and Way too tree hugger for my taste. Not to mention a really far stretch of the imagination.

But what really got me was the Daedalus Vs. The Sun. I mean com'on! Even if the shields could hold, are you telling me that the sub light engines could counter the force long enough to hold the ship in place? I would have expected the Daedalus to go spinning off into the void from force of the solar flare.

That was really cheeky and not their best work.

lord-anubis
November 29th, 2006, 12:56 PM
well the deadless was powered by zpm so i think its some what belive able

grasshopper64
November 29th, 2006, 01:04 PM
Another brilliant SGA ep for me.

I think I may have become a Teyla/Ronon shipper and I'm so anti-ship onscreen:) There's great chemistry between them anyway.

Nice interaction between McKay/Sheppard, I love the banter between them, plus Weir and her "go dabble boys" she knows them well.....

In fact as has been said on here I think all characters had a role to play in this ep and it was very well written.

Trialia
November 29th, 2006, 01:12 PM
Well, I thought about giving y'all a comprehensive summary of how I felt about this episode.... Then I decided, what the heck. I gave my play-by-play observations to my LJ friends, so you'll get that too. :P Most of it anyway. And yes, this includes the weirdness of my calling Elizabeth "Lizzie" or "poor baby" throughout the recap. I'm a nutty fangirl, what can I say... :P


- Ronon/Radek OMG!
- hee. sleepy!Ronon... and heh, he snores. LOL.
- which email? hehehe. poor Lizzie.
- screw Earth, take the ZPMs!! na, I'm kidding.
- aww. poor baby. too many emails!
- yay! Spanky stickfight. Now THAT has chemistry. Hee. Headbutts, too. Think that's Teyla's revenge about the meditation? Definitely. Ah, the giggles!
- wow. Teyla frightened? unusual. but that was gruesome, yes.
- heheh. the Shep!hair is going "flap"
- yay WHALES!
- oooh. the Lizzie!scanner from TRW.
- hmm. Lizabeth doesn't seem like she feels well.
- *points gun at Ronon and playfully goes boom!*
- heeeee. Lizzie's so cute.
- Buick!lobsters?
- *splits and giggles about the Sam!reactions*
- heh. Lizzie doesn't wanna know and I don't blame her.
- "alright then boys, dabble away" - MommyBear!
- Teyla's arms out from under the cover. is it never cold in Atlantis?
- whales anthropomorphising & asking for help?
- yay! redhead Heightmeyer... that's hot. XD
- why think Teyla's crazy, after The Gift?
- um. Claire, honey, you need to ask Wardrobe for a bigger cup size.
- *clings to Lizzie* don't be scared!
- Torri's hair is so hot this ep.
- "when's the last time you took a day off?" haha... typical fanon Liz.
- "you didn't feed him did you?" because oh, Rodney so would.
- dramamine? motion sickness in a jumper with inertial dampeners?
- eight hours uninterrupted? nope, I don't see that happening either.
- ooh. Ronon too huh?
- ulp. the sonar headache? ouch.
- uh-oh. nosebleeds are not good in this situation.
- ulp. Lizzie!panic... she looked so scared then. shippy...
- love the shot of night!Lantis.
- yeah, perforated ears don't heal that quickly.
- c'mon Liz, try to translate them!
- like I said... perforated ears do NOT heal that fast. *slaps whoever wrote that*
- hehehe. "okay... Meredith."
- "I'm fine." Yeah, right...
- haha. infirmary breakout...
- ah. not a good idea.
- ow! that's hurting MY ears! *winces*
- kill whales, Steven? mean... specially when they're not really trying to kill you.
- low voice... Liz does not sound well.
- aww. Lizabeth looks close to tears from all the people getting sick around her and her not being able to help.
- oh lord, the Macarena! *giggle*
- hee. geek!Lizzie, all enthusiastic about her translation.
- oooh. that's what it means, hmm?
- ulp. damn those coronal mass ejections. but hey! Young Wizards reference!
- uh-oh. methinks the Daedalus isn't safe where it is.
- awww. Spanky bedside moment! Teyla looks wiped, but aww, Ronon's touching her face and smiling. adorable.
- hee. Ronon admits to Teyla that he's hopeless, but it looks like he's thinking something different than she is! ulp. unconscious bad.
- ulp. Liz really doesn't look well.
- oh-oh, headache sign, is this where Liz faints? not quite... but she doesn't look like she's gonna be on her feet much more.
- oookay. so that's where. and John's carrying her, that's angsty!sweet... poor girl.
- eep. people dying now? that's really getting worse.
- hee. Mensa!John...
- heh. he's doing this on a maybe? typical.
- oh, crap.
- of course he didn't!
- hee. Ronon/Radek moment again. I love these two.
- hee. Orange!John is quite cute.
- yay, pretty city shots.
- hehe. Lizzie, you really think they can hear you?
- eeeeeeeeeee. Spanky love.
- heeeeeeee. Teyla threatening Ronon? That is cute.


And... we're done. :P Generally, I liked this episode, even though all the sonar gave me a headache too.

Luz
November 29th, 2006, 01:12 PM
Yup, definitely shippy vibes from Ronon and Teyla there.... sigh. I'mnot sure I'm happy with it, I'd have lived so much better without any ship whatsoever - especially not the John/Teyla/Ronon/Elizabeth hectagon they're creating.
Speaking of Elizabeth, loved her again in this episode. She's so lvoely :) So was Carson... who didn't have a large role in this but whatever he had he was lovely in.

Carson is always lovable. The episode was awesome, loved the concept, Sam, *lol* now, in this capacity her presence wouldn't bother me much. ;)
I don't see the hectagon you're talking about, zero J/T vibes on this episode, that ship has been mercifully absent since tptb stopped hitting us in the head with it on season 1. Much better like that, give me character interaction and none of those bothersome intrusive forced "you have to see ship here" moments, if I want to see ship I'll go read fanfic.
Loved all the character interactions though, this third season has been great, like the writers have found their footing with these people.
I love Elizabeth's character, but don't like the longer hair much, god knows to me that woman is the hottest, but I liked it better shorter.
And I don't know if tptb intended the R/T scenes to be shippy, but they were definitely sweet, Ronon in fluffy mode always makes me squee, I've always said it, deep inside he's all kindness, and love. Poor Teyla, much Teyla!Whumping there.

And the McKay and Sheppard banter never ceases to amuse me, they are great together. Sheppard the hero, saving the day, carrying Weir, being all manly *RAR*, and snarking with McKay. I love this man so much. *bg*

Lizabeth
November 29th, 2006, 01:26 PM
I can't wait to see this episode!!! The Ronan and Teyla stuff sounds awesome, John carrying Elizabeth is *perfect* and it sounds like it's filled with other bits of great stuff all around. I really like the parallels of John worrying about Elizabeth and Ronan worrying about Teyla, even though I gather there was only that one part with John and Elizabeth and the Ronan and Teyla stuff was much more extensive. I just like the guys being all concerned over the girls. I'd comment on other stuff but I haven't seen it, can't wait to though!!

Sicktem
November 29th, 2006, 01:44 PM
I was never a fan of animal stories. For me, the episode was silly and Way too tree hugger for my taste. Not to mention a really far stretch of the imagination.

But what really got me was the Daedalus Vs. The Sun. I mean com'on! Even if the shields could hold, are you telling me that the sub light engines could counter the force long enough to hold the ship in place? I would have expected the Daedalus to go spinning off into the void from force of the solar flare.

That was really cheeky and not their best work.

The Odyssey was previously able to counter the pull of a black hole to some degree at close range, even though they eventually got far too close for comfort. Compared to a black hole, the Sun's pull is nothing so I don't see the problem. If anything I think it stresses just how much technology Earth has gained as the speed and ability of those sub light engines are light years beyond what modern scientists see possible for NASA's near future.

travis
November 29th, 2006, 02:02 PM
I quite enjoyed this ep. Had really nice character moments and bonding with a subtle blend of humor. There were a few thing that did'nt fit so cohesively but to be honest it really did'nt bother me at all.

Thank god Teyla seemed bit more active in this ep hopfully we get to see more of her for the rest of the season. Lol good to see Ronan throw a bit of a tantrum, and I have to say that Teyla and Ronan do get on well and a chemistry happening there. I'm hoping on the freindship side then ship. Their both outsiders so I think it naturally for them to care and look out for one another. :)

Ronnikins
November 29th, 2006, 02:21 PM
Echoes was a thoroughly enjoyable solid episode. I thought the standards would fall a bit in the back half of the season but it hasn't yet.

This episode encompassed all the things I wanted to see this year. Thanks TPTB, Carl Binder and Will Waring!

Some highlights were:

* Yay! Some continuity with references to GUP, The Return and the inter-galactic bridge, though there seems to have been a big reset button in regards to any fallout from "The Return".

*McKay/Shep banter. Gotta love those "boys". They play so well off each other.

* Some exploration of the city to reach the science lab. About time. We need more episodes about Atlantis itself.

* Major Teyla/Ronon characterisations. They had significant screen time. Whether the palpable chemistry they've got is friendship or more, one thing's for sure, it works a treat. Would like to see more of it.

* Teyla/Weir scenes together. They seem to be friends and I would like to see that being developed more too. We need more friendship scenes between the two female leaders since they have much in common (like having to keep all these little boys in check.)

* Have to say, Caldwell is growing on me and even though he's very much "by the book", he's an honourable man. I hope he stays around for Season 4 as well.

* Really enjoyed how the Atlantis "family" is bonding. There was every conceivable interaction between all the major players. Radek had a lot to do and so adorkable.

* Trivial, I know, but I like Elizabeth's look this season too and how some playfulness seems to be coming out in her personality. Also thought the Mills and Boon moment when Shep carried Weir into the infirmary was very much in character in regards to the concern he shows for those close to him.

* Carson. What can I say? I always relish his scenes. *Sniffles*

*Thought the end with Rodney was perfect way to finish off the episode.

* Only con really was Dr Heightmeyer. I enjoyed her in the other episodes but here she seemed a bit patronising with Teyla and the others. Why didn't she feel or see anything? Must be the hair colour....just joking.

travis
November 29th, 2006, 02:31 PM
Echoes was a thoroughly enjoyable solid episode. I thought the standards would fall a bit in the back half of the season but it hasn't yet.

This episode encompassed all the things I wanted to see this year. Thanks TPTB, Carl Binder and Will Waring!

Some highlights were:

* Yay! Some continuity with references to GUP, The Return and the inter-galactic bridge, though there seems to have been a big reset button in regards to any fallout from "The Return".

*McKay/Shep banter. Gotta love those "boys". They play so well off each other.

* Some exploration of the city to reach the science lab. About time. We need more episodes about Atlantis itself.

* Major Teyla/Ronon characterisations. They had significant screen time. Whether the palpable chemistry they've got is friendship or more, one thing's for sure, it works a treat. Would like to see more of it.

* Teyla/Weir scenes together. They seem to be friends and I would like to see that being developed more too. We need more friendship scenes between the two female leaders since they have much in common (like having to keep all these little boys in check.)

* Have to say, Caldwell is growing on me and even though he's very much "by the book", he's an honourable man. I hope he stays around for Season 4 as well.

* Really enjoyed how the Atlantis "family" is bonding. There was every conceivable interaction between all the major players. Radek had a lot to do and so adorkable.

* Trivial, I know, but I like Elizabeth's look this season too and how some playfulness seems to be coming out in her personality. Also thought the Mills and Boon moment when Shep carried Weir into the infirmary was very much in character in regards to the concern he shows for those close to him.

* Carson. What can I say? I always relish his scenes. *Sniffles*

*Thought the end with Rodney was perfect way to finish off the episode.

* Only con really was Dr Heightmeyer. I enjoyed her in the other episodes but here she seemed a bit patronising with Teyla and the others. Why didn't she feel or see anything? Must be the hair colour....just joking.


I agree you conveyed it so well, I was kind of lazy to write all of this.

LOL I thought the color was getting to Heightmeyer character as well:D

The team does seem more relaxed and settled now into the show thats why I think the ep was enjoyable to watch, which makes the interaction more real IMO.

Willow'sCat
November 29th, 2006, 02:57 PM
That's awfully selfish and childish (we found it, so it's ours!). So the few hundred people making up the Expedition is suddenly more important than 6 billion on Earth? As a fan of SGA I don't give a frak what happens to Earth on SG-1 it is of no importance to me except when Atlantis must give up things to make the life of SG-1 better, sorry I just don't care about SG-1 anymore. :rolleyes:

Ruined_puzzle
November 29th, 2006, 04:08 PM
I loved this episode. Carl Binder I love you.

Whales, ghosts sort of, Ronon/Teyla being cute and hot together I so ship them, smart John, and John carrying Elizabeth was a great visual ;)

Hopefully it continues to be good.

Rootortoise
November 29th, 2006, 04:44 PM
As a fan of SGA I don't give a frak what happens to Earth on SG-1 it is of no importance to me except when Atlantis must give up things to make the life of SG-1 better, sorry I just don't care about SG-1 anymore. :rolleyes:
yep me too WILLOW'SCAT!!(especially with the latest about sam coming over to atlantis :() i just think SG1 go to hell, Atlantis shouldve kept all those zpms loved rodney saying they should keep them!!especially when it turned out we NEEDED all 3 to stop the Sun thingy!! thank god for smart shep coming up with a plan lol but yeh SG1 be damned they shouldve hidden them!!!!"what zpms? we only have one" *looks innocent*
i loved this episode so much!! it was just so well written and the whumper in me loved the shep bits...i loved them shouting in the infirmary and trying to escape hehe (think TPTB have been peeking at fanfic anyone?) the mcshep banter was on top form, everyone had something to do, the sparky-lover in me loved shep carrying weir and her concern for him when he was in the PJ and heck even spanky got a lot of good material!! we got to see more pretty atlantis and it was just an all around good ep!!Loved it!!

Caldwell's 2IC
November 29th, 2006, 04:47 PM
* Have to say, Caldwell is growing on me and even though he's very much "by the book", he's an honourable man. I hope he stays around for Season 4 as well.



Good ! The Daedalus' skipper is getting more fans ! :cool:

LadyBozi
November 29th, 2006, 05:21 PM
Awesome episode... I must say I Was creeeped out and happy at the same time [Teyla/Ronon make my all warm and fuzzy inside--If you didnt see that as shippy your in denial]

Teyla/Weir interaction... --- Lets get a girls poker night together. =P

Anyway.. i loved the epsiode.. we should have Carl at least co-write every episode lol. jk

Iguana775
November 29th, 2006, 05:29 PM
Just saw it. enjoyed it. very good one-off episode. hopefully we get to see more of the parts of the city now that the fludded sections are unflooded like the biolab.

travis
November 29th, 2006, 05:42 PM
Awesome episode... I must say I Was creeeped out and happy at the same time [Teyla/Ronon make my all warm and fuzzy inside--If you didnt see that as shippy your in denial]

Teyla/Weir interaction... --- Lets get a girls poker night together. =P

Anyway.. i loved the epsiode.. we should have Carl at least co-write every episode lol. jk

LOl I love to see them have a trivial persuit or scrabble night poker been done on SG1 and startrek

PG15
November 29th, 2006, 05:45 PM
As a fan of SGA I don't give a frak what happens to Earth on SG-1 it is of no importance to me except when Atlantis must give up things to make the life of SG-1 better, sorry I just don't care about SG-1 anymore. :rolleyes:

It's not about SG1, it's about the human race and Earth. You live on Earth, right? ;)

I think we're talking two different things here. You're using real life (the shows), and I'm using in-show things.

CalmStorm
November 29th, 2006, 06:11 PM
I thought it was a great episode. At least it is one that I can watch multiple times. A lot of little funny parts in it, had me tickled several times. Ones with good humor mixed in are always good.

Jessima
November 29th, 2006, 06:38 PM
I LOVE this episode! Defiantly one of my favs next to Seteda. Lots of Ronon humor, Teyla/Ronon bonding and finally another sparring scene! I have been waiting all season for a sparring scene between Teyla and Ronon. I loved the look on Teyla's face when she kicked his ass. It was a very evil grin that made me giggle. I giggled throughout the Teyla/Ronon scenes. Yeah if you're gonna have some Teyla/Ronon bonding scenes, make 'em funny! (maybe one or too serious like the one when she was on her death bed...)
I just about fell out of my seat in the meditation scene xD
Teyla: Embrace the silence!
Ronon: *snore*
Teyla: Ronon?
Ronon: *snore*
Teyla: -_-
xD My favorite scene! Hands down! xD

More about the R/T bonding:
I loved the scene after the sparring scene when Teyla got the crap scared out of her. I thought it was really sweet how he grabbed her and kindly said "Hey, Hey what's wrong?" I liked that. And the end scene... he gave her permission to beat him! xD And the look on her face when he handed her the stick. It was evil and like "Gladly *whack!*" lol xD
Another thing I liked was the caring and tender side of Ronon, which you do not see often. When he was at her bedside the look on his face gave me this warm fuzzy feeling inside *hugs self* I defiantly want to see more of that side of Ronon in the future, along with the humorous side xD (*Snore* lol xD *busts up laughing*) Others might not think so but there was a lot of character development for both Teyla and Ronon.
Things I learned
Teyla: Slightly Evil
Ronon: He snores, is caring, and likes to hunt (and he pouts! Puddle Jumper Scene!)


And of course I liked the genius John and him saving the day rather than Rodney. Nice change of pace. Rodney was so jealous that he came up with a better plan then him. You can tell because he kept saying stuff like "It's not going to work!" When facing death, it's not a good idea to be a pessimist, otherwise when you live you are going to look like an idiot for doubting. Not that I am hating on Rodney, he's awesome. :)

Trialia
November 29th, 2006, 06:45 PM
Hee. Come on. All women are just a little bit evil now and then. It's what makes us so much fun. :D

PG15
November 29th, 2006, 07:02 PM
Oh, I just remembered another funny moment!

It's during the scene in the ZPM room when Shep and McKay were "going over" the plan, and McKay says something like "do you know how hot is going to be for the people inside?!" And of course, he points to himself when he said "people".

That is so McKay. :D

IMForeman
November 29th, 2006, 07:03 PM
This makes me wonder if the "Sam" McKay saw in "Grace Under Pressure" was a hallucination, or the whale trying to help him.

CalmStorm
November 29th, 2006, 07:18 PM
This makes me wonder if the "Sam" McKay saw in "Grace Under Pressure" was a hallucination, or the whale trying to help him.

I think it was just McKay hallucinating. The whales were projecting the images of the ancients that had been passed down through several generations of whales. Everyone was seeing the same projections. The projections from this episode had to be analyzed and decoded to understand the garbled message they were trying to send.

McKay's hallucination was extremely clear, easy to understand, and adhered more towards McKay's knowledge of Sam. I don't believe it was the whale projecting an or affecting McKay's perception.

Anjirika
November 29th, 2006, 07:26 PM
Kay, so I'm not reading the entire thread...just want to post my comments.

This episdoe was great! It tied up loose ends with Rodney and the Whales, it had Teyla/Ronan moments ( a lot of them), it had Rodney/John friendship moments, which is good seeing how McKay lost John's trust last season, it had good Carson moments, it had good Zelenka moments, it had GREAT Shep/Weir moments (John carrying Lizzie into the infirmary is my FAVORTIE moment this season)...I loved the moments between John and McKay when John was testing McKay's hearing, first he bashes everything Canadian (and being a Canadian I had to laugh), then John says that Zelenka is smarter than him, and then he calls him Merideth...I've been waiting for that....^_^ Over all an amazing and wonderful video.

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
November 29th, 2006, 07:39 PM
Okay... I read the script for the episode. I have to say, it was not the sharpest written there's ever been, nor the tightest - the ending was a bit anticlimactic, considering that Atlantis usually has megatension climaxes (no matter how cliche they may be). I very much enjoyed the Ronan/Teyla banter. A little too much time was wasted on Teyla 'seeing things,' but its nice to see her character not just being a mobile prop for once. Sad that Atlantis gave two of its ZPMs away, but Earth might actually need them (wouldn't it be awesome if we could RING drones onboard the Ori ships? Anyone ever thought of that?). Cool solution, but it was kinda boringesque.

Overall, nice to see that Atlantis is experimenting with the city and the past of the Ancients, the nuances that we learn along the way and can't just predict to be there.
***

jenks
November 29th, 2006, 07:42 PM
^^ Am I right in thinking you have rated an episode without even seeing it?

Detox
November 29th, 2006, 08:25 PM
^^ Am I right in thinking you have rated an episode without even seeing it?

Yes... yes you are. :mckay:

Mitchell82
November 29th, 2006, 08:40 PM
Just saw it, great ep. Loved the references to Return 2 also great ep, and the whole whale thing. Whoever said about the Stardrive, they never said a thing about it being fixed. i seriously doubt we could without an Ancient or Assuran or someone sticking their "Frawn" in a Repository. The Oddesyey will have a better chance against the ori with a ZPM powering the shields and mabey more powerfull weapons? Also the Outpost could give us a huge advantage. Great ep all around loved everey bit!

lord-anubis
November 29th, 2006, 08:48 PM
for sec when makay said what the anitents did about riseing the shield around most the plante. i thought were going to do that and then say 1 or more zpm was out of power

Alipeeps
November 30th, 2006, 01:02 AM
Okay... I read the script for the episode. I have to say, it was not the sharpest written there's ever been, nor the tightest - the ending was a bit anticlimactic, considering that Atlantis usually has megatension climaxes (no matter how cliche they may be).

Tbh, the ending probably plays out a lot more dramatically on viewing the ep than it is written in the script - I found myself actually tensing up in anticipation/nervousness as the solar flare hit the Daedalus and then it went on and on and on and on and it really was quite tense and dramatic; the effects of the flare were awesome and intense and you started to see parts of the ship physicall peel away because of the heat damage and there was a real sense of danger and tension.

Yes, after that they calmed it down a bit and ended it on a nice, gentle note of seeing everyone back safe and sound in the city etc but that's something they often do and, given how much this episode had focused on the daily lives of the people in the city and their friendships and interactions, that was - IMO - the right way to end it.

Easter Lily
November 30th, 2006, 03:02 AM
Finally... a story revolving around the sea. About time.
I haven't read the entire thread but I enjoyed this. What I really liked about this episode is that they somehow managed to use everyone (even Heightmeyer whom I don't care for) gainfully. I don't know about the science of sun spots but it's nice to see them attempting to include at least all the regs and even some recurrings in this story.
The other thing that I'm happy about is that we're seeing more of the city. Another undiscovered lab.

A feel good episode that didn't feel overly schmaltzy to me.

Falcon Horus
November 30th, 2006, 03:21 AM
Finally saw it...twice.

I loved the episode. It was absolutely high-larious!!

It had great character moments, and well I was pretty thrilled to see Heightmeyer again. She looked totally yummy. No matter what she keeps catching my attention, as do Teyla and Elizabeth.

There were so many great scenes like...
* Teyla & Ronon meditating with Ronon snoring the time away
* McKay talking about his "Sam"
* Sheppard making fun of him in the infirmary
* Zelenka in camping gear and with his pigeons
* Teyla and Ronon sparring -> headbutt+kick=for falling asleep during my meditation
* Heightmeyer asking Teyla and Lizzie when the last time was they had a day off and they turn to each other looking like a kid caught with his hand in the cookiejar
* the three ladies coming around the corner ... *thud*
* the whales
* the Macarena?!? -> wondering if Rodney has it on his iPod.

And Heightmeyer... yeah, so glad she was back and that they didn't leave her behind on Earth. She seemed more relaxed and she can really muster up the cutest confuzzled look ever. *thud*
And great haircolor, different than the blond look but most definitely not bad.
Already liked it when I saw the youtube-stuff on the Stargate Q&A on Dragon Con 2006.

eri-chan
November 30th, 2006, 04:29 AM
i saw this ep a few days ago. i really liked it. it was nice after the 2 parter. i really enjoyed the character moments and was pleased with the more screen presence of teyla. and being a spanky shipper... that was more than i could have asked for XD so many ronon/teyla scenes for me to enjoy. our shipper thread's gone crazy coz of this ep ;)

anyway it was nice to have a normal kinda episode... well one where you see what people do when they're not on missions on other planets. it was kinda relaxing to watch. and it did get me thinking.

i was kinda bummed about not getting 3 zpms but i understand that the sgc needs it more than atlantis and atlantis can deal with 1 for now since they have been doing so for the last 3 years. if they got to keep 3, it wouldnt make sense with the stargate universe. so what if you dont care about sg1? it's still in the same universe as sga. and i get the feeling we'll be seeing those zpms being used in sg1 too.

i was wondering about repercussions myself but for the show's sake, i'll assume that was at least 3 weeks after the return part 2. i kinda knew there was going to be a big reset button pushed especially with all the damage and things in the return. so im not surprised about how it turned out. although the sgc getting the zpms too is more of a bonus than a reset.

anyway i really enjoyed the character development and shep winning the day instead of mckay. that was a nice change for once. and it was kinda cool seeing ronon pissy because his hunting was disrupted instead of him being mostly silent. zomg! he had more than 5 lines! :rolleyes:

i guess heightmeyer was a bit of a waste but it was nice seeing that she was still around. i do agree that the scenes with here were a bit dragged out. i thought she would've known better by now.

anyway the ep was a nice surprise for me and to those who havent watched it yet, it wasnt anti-climatic at all. it got me wondering quite a bit and the deflecting scene was pretty intense for me.

Southern Red
November 30th, 2006, 06:46 AM
A lovely episode with something for everyone to do. Thanks Carl Binder. Somebody give that man a raise!

It's also lovely to see so many people in agreement on an episode. You certainly didn't need any special glasses to see the Ronon/Teyla vibe in this one. They are wonderful together, and not siblinglike in the least IMHO. This sort of interaction is the way to do ship correctly without making it the whole story or disrupting the flow. Wonderfully done and wonderfully acted.

However, nothing can compare with the sight of John carrying Elizabeth to the infirmary. An interesting writing decision since we've never seen this done before. Usually they just radio for a med team. Okay, everyone was a bit busy down there, but just as in TRW we again see John rushing to save her. Carl Binder seems to understand that shippers don't want to take over the show. More moments like this please.

John and Rodney are like a couple of cute puppies in a box. I'm glad they are back as best buds.

Elizabeth and Teyla are obviously friends, but it seems that they share information also as one leader to another. There is a mutual respect between them now that hints at the likelihood that they bounce ideas off each other and Elizabeth values her advice. Now let's see them giggling about the boys. We know that Ronon snores, but would Elizabeth know how Teyla knows that? LOL.

I love it when John gets an idea, and Rodney just goes right along no matter how whack he pretends to think it is.

Zalenka, I want to pinch your cheeks. And Carson, I want to give you a big hug.

Oh, and since I'm a redhead I have to mention Kate. Um, ... perhaps being blonde would be a better decision for you. Also, the psychobabble doesn't work in a galaxy where there are multiple alien creations trying to kill you.

I love this show. Don't ever let it end.

MB.Eddie
November 30th, 2006, 08:13 AM
Was an average ep imo. Quite slow. Nice that the explained what happened with the 3 ZPM's, and showed the Whales (They rock :) ). I find it hard to believe that an avg. ship can survive a blast like that from the sun, but at least it wasnt McKay's idea this time. I guess it was good to see Teyla and Ronon get more air time...

dubya83
November 30th, 2006, 08:27 AM
The deflection scene at the end was actually quite intense. I figured the Daedalus wouldn't blow up given that two of the principal characters were on board, but there was always the chance of irrevocable damage (then leading up to the Apollo's entrance in the series).

It is nice to see the shows crossover in a slightly subtle way. It's not always necessary to have our characters appear in both shows, but just friendly reminders that events in one show can have an immense impact on the other (much like The Siege and Moebius). I suppose SG-1 nabbed one ZPM for Atlantis, and now Atlantis has repaid the favor (with interest).

It will be interesting to see how SG-1 uses their two new ZPMs as the series concludes.

Will the Ori finally take a wack at Earth? Perhaps then we get to see if the drone weapons have any impact at all. Some have suggested that the only reason Earth has remained untouched thus far is because the drone weapons may be at least somewhat more effective than our previous engagements.

And I wonder if Odyssey will use it for something other than simply stronger shields and faster engines.

Lastly, were we given any clear indication of how much Sheppard's plan drained the ZPM? Maybe Atlantis will have to take back Odyssey's ZPM after all.

The_Tsid.
November 30th, 2006, 08:42 AM
The Odyssey was previously able to counter the pull of a black hole to some degree at close range, even though they eventually got far too close for comfort. Compared to a black hole, the Sun's pull is nothing so I don't see the problem. If anything I think it stresses just how much technology Earth has gained as the speed and ability of those sub light engines are light years beyond what modern scientists see possible for NASA's near future.

No no, you missed it. Not the Gravity of the Sun, the force exerted from the Solar Flare.

prion
November 30th, 2006, 08:44 AM
However, nothing can compare with the sight of John carrying Elizabeth to the infirmary. An interesting writing decision since we've never seen this done before. Usually they just radio for a med team. Okay, everyone was a bit busy down there, but just as in TRW we again see John rushing to save her. Carl Binder seems to understand that shippers don't want to take over the show. More moments like this please.



My only teeth-gnashing quibble with that scene is.. if the person you're carrying is unconscious, they cannot put their arm around your shoulder. I mean, I can see why anybody would cling to JF (cough cough) but if you're unconscious, you sorta go, well, limp. You dangle. Dead weight. It's a quibble I have with most sci-fi shows that do the exact same thing, of course, I don't think it would have looked quite as, well, good, if he'd just slung over her his shoulder like a rolled-up rug ;)

And I figured Shep picked her and brought her to the infirmary as well, the medical staff were overwhelmed and leaving her lying on the control room floor woudln't have accomplished much.

Now if she'd passed out in front of Ronon, I bet he would have just slung over his shoulder. Much easier to carry that way ;)

prion
November 30th, 2006, 08:50 AM
Finally saw it...twice.

And Heightmeyer... yeah, so glad she was back and that they didn't leave her behind on Earth. She seemed more relaxed and she can really muster up the cutest confuzzled look ever. *thud*
And great haircolor, different than the blond look but most definitely not bad.
Already liked it when I saw the youtube-stuff on the Stargate Q&A on Dragon Con 2006.

I did like Kate's appearance in the episode. I like her better as a blonde, although don't know if she's really blonde or brunette as I've seen her as both. Shall have to check out the Q&A you mentioned. Thanks.

As a totally OT note, both Claire Rankin (Kate) and Rachel Luttrel were in the movie THE AVIARY. I should see if that's out on DVD yet.

Admiral Mappalazarou
November 30th, 2006, 08:51 AM
I remember some people speculating that Ford was going to show up in this episode...LOL nevermind.
Anywho the story seemed abit silly but now that I watch both BSG and SGA I've learned that SGA can get away with not taking itself seriously. I absolutely loved the moments with John and Rodney being half-deaf. I've noticed that in the stargate-verse, they have a nack of never mentioning certain things again....thank the gods they left in Rodney 'Meredith' McKay.

The thing with the whales just seemed stupid...lol it doesn't matter though because overall I liked the episode.:) :) :)

Am I being too light?

We'll see. Anywho, it's Irresponsible next week so all those who hated Irresistable are going to be buggered.:( Not me however as I'm a big fan of Lucius Lavin :):):).
Can't wait...

Luz
November 30th, 2006, 09:28 AM
My only teeth-gnashing quibble with that scene is.. if the person you're carrying is unconscious, they cannot put their arm around your shoulder. I mean, I can see why anybody would cling to JF (cough cough) but if you're unconscious, you sorta go, well, limp. You dangle. Dead weight. It's a quibble I have with most sci-fi shows that do the exact same thing, of course, I don't think it would have looked quite as, well, good, if he'd just slung over her his shoulder like a rolled-up rug ;)

It irked me too, her arm should have been just hanging there, limp, not grabbing him, and that makes me a bad shipper, because instead of squeeing at the sight, the first thought to come to my mind was "Hey!, her hand really shouldn't be there!".

Micropot
November 30th, 2006, 09:43 AM
I liked this episode too! I loved the part where Rodney named the whale Sam :)

ToasterOnFire
November 30th, 2006, 10:20 AM
Even though this was a filler episode, it was nice to see Atlantis not under threat from the wraith or the Asurans. Plus this ep was chock full of screentime for all the regulars and some secondary characters to boot. It would be nice to see TPTB do this more often.


-This ep mainly gravitated toward the typical pairings (Shep/Rodney with some Weir and Ronon/Teyla), which was a very slight irk for me as I'd like to see TPTB shake up the character combinations more often. We did get to see some lesser-seen combos like Weir/Teyla in this ep, and those were much appreciated.

-So this planet has both a killer storm every X years and killer sun bursts every X years. Plan your vacation accordingly. :D

-Ha, I loved all the shouting. "Celine Dion is overrated."

-I'm not sure Rodney intended to name the whale "Sam". I had the briefest feeling that he did so after almost revealing to Shep and Weir that his hallucination of Sam had saved him. He said (paraphrased) "yeah, after Sam saved me...I mean the WHALE I named Sam...yeah."

-I didn't see anything overtly shippy in this ep. Interpretable yes, definitive nope. I saw more bonding and caring than anything romantic. And that's a good thing for me, as I care for neither the two ships in question nor the ability of TPTB to write definitive ship. :)

BrokenHearted
November 30th, 2006, 11:32 AM
I noticed a huge impossibility, something that just isn't possible.

McKay says that the huge solar flare happens every 15,000 years or so. We know that the last time, the ancients used their ZedPMs to cover the majority of the planet.

McKay also says that if the solar flare were to reach the planet, it would pretty much kill everything, plants included, which would mean that there would be no oxygen.

Well, if this were true, then the planet Atlantis is on would be sterile, and would have no life, no oxygen.

15,000 years ago, the ancients saved the planet. Since they were unaware that there were such solar flares, this indicates that they were not on the planet 15,000 years prior to their solar flare, or 30,000 years ago for the Atlantis team.

Thus, this if you keep going back every 15,000 years, life would have continually gotten wiped off. It would have been impossible for life such as the whales to develop and evolve.

On earth, it's taken a few billion years for us humans to appear. Complex creatures take a long time.

If the sun really does have these solar flares every 15,000 years, no life would exist. Thus the writers wrote a story that could not be true.

ste
November 30th, 2006, 12:44 PM
i like the way the replicators fixed all of the city, even the water damaged areas, that was very nice of them, and i would love if there was a zpm making room in the newly repaired areas, that would be cool, but just for a laugh, you need all 3 zpm's to make one, id laugh so much if that happened

Falcon Horus
November 30th, 2006, 01:28 PM
I did like Kate's appearance in the episode. I like her better as a blonde, although don't know if she's really blonde or brunette as I've seen her as both. Shall have to check out the Q&A you mentioned. Thanks.

I posted links to it in the Secondary Women of Atlantis Thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=26305), post 366 (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=5785035&postcount=366) to be exact.


As a totally OT note, both Claire Rankin (Kate) and Rachel Luttrel were in the movie THE AVIARY. I should see if that's out on DVD yet.

Yup, the movie is out on DVD and can be bought via the official website of the movie -> The Aviary (http://theaviarymovie.com/)
Hope to get it for my birthday. *keeping fingers crossed*

Willow'sCat
November 30th, 2006, 02:48 PM
It's not about SG1, it's about the human race and Earth. You live on Earth, right? ;)

I think we're talking two different things here. You're using real life (the shows), and I'm using in-show things.Ah, no I said Earth on SG-1 NOTHING about RL. :rolleyes: You seem to be the one confusing things here.

In the show I don't give a frak if Earth (fictional Earth) is taken over by silly Ori things that make no sense to me. I don't care about SG-1 or the SGC anymore. I don't see why fictional Atlantis has to give up it's fictional ZPMs to fictional Earth. Atlantis needs them just as much.

Alipeeps
November 30th, 2006, 02:50 PM
I noticed a huge impossibility, something that just isn't possible.

McKay says that the huge solar flare happens every 15,000 years or so. We know that the last time, the ancients used their ZedPMs to cover the majority of the planet.

McKay also says that if the solar flare were to reach the planet, it would pretty much kill everything, plants included, which would mean that there would be no oxygen.

Well, if this were true, then the planet Atlantis is on would be sterile, and would have no life, no oxygen.

15,000 years ago, the ancients saved the planet. Since they were unaware that there were such solar flares, this indicates that they were not on the planet 15,000 years prior to their solar flare, or 30,000 years ago for the Atlantis team.

Thus, this if you keep going back every 15,000 years, life would have continually gotten wiped off. It would have been impossible for life such as the whales to develop and evolve.

On earth, it's taken a few billion years for us humans to appear. Complex creatures take a long time.

If the sun really does have these solar flares every 15,000 years, no life would exist. Thus the writers wrote a story that could not be true.

Not really. The radiation wave would damage the planet's ecosystem for a long period but not permanently. In McKay's words, "The entire ecosystem of this planet will be damaged beyond recovery for hundreds of years." They found evidence of mass extinction on other parts of the planet (not covered by the Ancients' shield). So when the Ancients were there and raised the shield, they protected a lot of the planet but other parts of it were damaged. Not permanently damaged though... over time (a long time!) the ecosystem recovers.

Popular geological theory is that we have had similar mass extinction events in the history of our own planet - usually related to large volcanic eruptions such as Krakatoa or Yellowstone etc. These too can damage the ecosystem for many years and exterminate most life on the planet.

However - the crux of your argument is that the Ancients weren't around previously to protect the planet. The thing is... the episode never said that these solar flares had hit the planet before. We know that last time around, when the Ancients were here, the flare hit the planet and the Ancients used the shield to protect it. All we know beyond that is that the Ancients had records of this class of CME happening twice before - a) this could mean twice during the same period of unusual sun spot activity (therefore not 15,000 years apart - we don't know how long the period of unusual activity lasts and there could easily be more than one CME during the period) and b) we don't know that any previous CMEs threatened the planet. The sun is a 360 degree sphere so a CME could go off on any side of it, in any direction. The Ancients records of two previous CMEs could simply be scientific notes in the database of having recorded CMEs from the sun - but not CMEs that threatened the planet.

sgeureka
November 30th, 2006, 02:51 PM
I noticed a huge impossibility, something that just isn't possible.

[snip]

15,000 years ago, the ancients saved the planet. Since they were unaware that there were such solar flares, this indicates that they were not on the planet 15,000 years prior to their solar flare, or 30,000 years ago for the Atlantis team.

Thus, this if you keep going back every 15,000 years, life would have continually gotten wiped off. It would have been impossible for life such as the whales to develop and evolve.

On earth, it's taken a few billion years for us humans to appear. Complex creatures take a long time.

If the sun really does have these solar flares every 15,000 years, no life would exist. Thus the writers wrote a story that could not be true.Erm... yeah, it seems you're right at first.

But don't we also know that the Ancients are capable of creating life with the push of a button, like with the machine from Reckoning, P2 (SG-1)? Since AFAIK it was never stated that the Ancients found a planet (Lantia) WITH life on it, we have to assume they created it at will.

Edit:
^Or just take a look at Alipeeps' explanation. :cool:

A.L.
November 30th, 2006, 04:36 PM
I love Carl Binder. And everyone else who had a hand in Echoes. And if you don't know why, you didn't see it did you? Well, here's some reasons (and some other general observations:

Reminder: Sparky = Shep/Weir paring, Spanky = Ronon/Teyla paring

1. Spanky
2. Shep Mckay Best Friend Banter - How long have you been standing there. An hour or so. Why didn't you-- oh, a joke
3. Spanky angst
4. Shep Mckay Best Friend Banter Sam Rodney's Whale Friend
5. Shep Mckay Best Friend Banter
6. No it's okay. I'll take your word for it
7. SMBFB - Whale good eating? You wouldn't. I would.
8. Teyla sleeps with a nightlight, too. Now I don't feel so stupid.
9. Teyla Lizzie Best Friend Bonding
10. Shep all excited to go diving again.
11. Zelenka's Master of the Obvious
12. Sparky angst
13. Sparky angst!
14. SPARKING ANGST!!
15. Rodney yelling. LOLOL!
16. Canadian Football is a joke
17. Celine Dion is overrated
18. Zelenka is smarter than you
19. Meredith
20. Yelling. ;) We're feeling much better.
21. SPANKY ANGST! Ronon was so tailing Teyla. ;)
22. He can hear you, you know. Yeah. We know.
23. Macarana! LOL!
24. Gee. How can we conveniently wear out our three shiney new ZPM's?
25. Spanky!
26. Spanky!!
27. SPANKY!!
28. SPANKY ANGST!!!!
29. Shep snark!
30. SPARKY ANGST!!!
31. Shep carries Lizzie! :D
32. SPANKY ANGST!
33. Lizzie yelling humor
34. MORE SPANKY!
35. Rodney AWWW Moment!

Well, I loved this epi. :weiranime17: :sheppardanime23: And I'm so very glad they didn't totally have to drain the three ZPM's for it. :D Great job! This is what makes a faboo epi. ;)

AL

Nolamom
November 30th, 2006, 05:43 PM
Gotta admit, this was just a fun episode. Better than I've enjoyed in awhile. Lot's of good interaction. Good storytelling. There have been some great episode synopsis already posted, so I won't go there. Suffice it to say, I loved this one.

PG15
November 30th, 2006, 06:55 PM
Ah, no I said Earth on SG-1 NOTHING about RL. :rolleyes: You seem to be the one confusing things here.

I wished I was, because you were (from my point of view) saying that the human race of 6 billion is less important than a few hundred people. That is just odd IMHO. I wasn't talking about the shows at all, but the entire Stargate universe.


In the show I don't give a frak if Earth (fictional Earth) is taken over by silly Ori things that make no sense to me. I don't care about SG-1 or the SGC anymore. I don't see why fictional Atlantis has to give up it's fictional ZPMs to fictional Earth. Atlantis needs them just as much.

And that's what I meant when I said "real life". I guess I should've made it clearer. Basically, discussing the show like this means you're IN the stargate universe, and looking at it from, well, within. And within that universe, 6 billion people is more important than Atlantis.

The fact you're calling them "fictional-x" obviously means that you're not looking at the shows from within. You don't care about the SG1-related Earth. For me, there is no "SG1-related" Earth;' it's just Earth, the same Earth I live in, the same Earth SG1 lives in, and the same Earth that the Atlantis expedition came from and lived on for small periods of time in the past 2.5 years.

After all, one of the appeals of Stargate is that it could be happening right now, no? :p

RoryJ
November 30th, 2006, 08:08 PM
I wished I was, because you were (from my point of view) saying that the human race of 6 billion is less important than a few hundred people. That is just odd IMHO. I wasn't talking about the shows at all, but the entire Stargate universe.



And that's what I meant when I said "real life". I guess I should've made it clearer. Basically, discussing the show like this means you're IN the stargate universe, and looking at it from, well, within. And within that universe, 6 billion people is more important than Atlantis.



I completely agree. If those ZPMs could defend Earth, the planet that the Atlantis expedition is doing all its glorious research and development in order to benefit, then that's where the ZPMs should go. Atlantis only needs one, and Earth needs Atlantis as part of its defense.


Overall, I really loved this episode. It was a very good mystery, and I liked the plot reveals. In list form, because I'm too busy to write paragraphs right now:

1. Loved Teyla having a large role.
2. Loved the Ronon/Teyla interaction
3. Sheppard and McKay BFF = too funny :D
4. Whales! Exploring the city and the planet! Yippee!!! It definitely gave this episode its own, unique feel.
5. Sheppard goading a deaf Rodney. :lol:
6. The romantic visionary in me loved John carrying Elizabeth into the infirmary. So sweet.
7. Again, the romantic visionary loves Ronon holding Teyla's chin and taking her hand. *le sigh* :cool:
8. Everyone had a part! Beckett, Heightmeyer, Caldwell, Zelenka ... it felt like a full-on team/family episode, which is awesome! What could have made it better? Lorne.

Nolamom
November 30th, 2006, 08:20 PM
Yes, I'd missed Teyla having a decent-sized role...it was very nice to see her character being USED.

Trialia
November 30th, 2006, 08:21 PM
Rory - don't forget Cadman, too! :P I want her back...

RoryJ
November 30th, 2006, 08:28 PM
Rory - don't forget Cadman, too! :P I want her back...

*headdesk* Cadman! I want to see her again too!

sunny
November 30th, 2006, 09:35 PM
Four words for Carl Binder: Will you marry me?

Alipeeps
December 1st, 2006, 12:17 AM
This is what makes a faboo epi. ;)



What? The fact that everything can be interpreted as ship if you choose to se it that way? :lol:

Sorry - That seemed to be the main gist of your post.. "to heck with the plot, look at all the ship!!" :lol:

Southern Red
December 1st, 2006, 03:24 AM
What? The fact that everything can be interpreted as ship if you choose to se it that way? :lol:

Sorry - That seemed to be the main gist of your post.. "to heck with the plot, look at all the ship!!" :lol:

Just when the shippers thought it was safe to venture back into the episode threads. Ali, I know you don't intend to be insulting because you seem like a really nice person, but shippers have the right to express their opinion just like the tech lovers who talk about technical aspects of the show. The episode was enjoyable in a huge way to the Ronon/Teyla and John/Elizabeth shippers. Can we let them get their opinion out to TPTB without ridicule?

Linzi
December 1st, 2006, 03:54 AM
I really enjoyed this episode!
The plot had a couple of holes, but I can overlook those because it was a very entertaining episode!
I loved the Daedalus deflecting the solar flare!!! That was so cool!
I loved seeing the whale thingy's eye up close to the window of the PJ.
I adored all the Sheppard/McKay scenes. They are the strongest two performers on the show for me, and to see them on such fine form was amazing! This episode seems to finally show that the writers have finally grasped how important the Sheppard and McKay interaction is to the show.
Of course, the whumper in me loved the infirmary scenes, and the shouting due to the deafness was hilarious! Celine Dion not that good? LOL!!!
I liked seeing more of Teyla here, and thought Ronon's distress at her illness was really sweet. I have to admit that I didn't enjoy watching Teyla and Ronon stick fight as much as I do Sheppard and Teyla, it seemed a quite brutal fight! Nice to see Teyla holding her own though. I just love seeing Shep getting his ass well and truly kicked!!! Obviously the whumper in me again...
The one thing that did bug me was the medical issues about perforated ear drums. They just don't heal that quickly! Also, why did Sheppard and McKay seem not to suffer any more symptoms once they were back on Atlantis? Everyone else was getting worse, and they weren't. That didn't make sense to me. Still, I can ignore that, because I was delivered a wonderfully entertaining episode, and that's what it's all about for me!

Lauriel
December 1st, 2006, 07:46 AM
Memoirs of my wishlist for season 3:

More team interaction - check.
More Rodney/John banter and snark - check.
More exploring the city - check.
Cool special effects - check.

Loved this ep! I loved seeing everyone involved and getting quality time. Shep and McKay were fantastic - I love all the Shep expressions throughout the ep. I also loved the great mix of action and humour - they really got that right, IMO.

prion
December 1st, 2006, 08:36 AM
IThe one thing that did bug me was the medical issues about perforated ear drums. They just don't heal that quickly! Also, why did Sheppard and McKay seem not to suffer any more symptoms once they were back on Atlantis? Everyone else was getting worse, and they weren't. That didn't make sense to me. Still, I can ignore that, because I was delivered a wonderfully entertaining episode, and that's what it's all about for me!

Ah, the medical aspects on this show are.... substandard, at times ;) I guess (hazarding a wildly unmedical guess) that once you perforate your eardrums, everything is hunky-dory with the headaches. Totallly hypothetical medical.

Reminder: Sparky = Shep/Weir paring, Spanky = Ronon/Teyla paring

Actually, it's pairing, with an i. If you pare 'em without an 'i', it's "To remove by or as if by cutting, clipping, or shaving" and I think now we're treading into the world of hurt/comfort (aka whump). ;)

And although I can speculate on Shep and Weir, AND Shep and Teyla, I can no longer even entertain Ronon and Teyla after Jason Momoa made a face at the suggestion (at a recent con) as he saw them as siblings, not romantic. ;)

Still can't figure out the history of those terms though...

Alipeeps
December 1st, 2006, 08:42 AM
Just when the shippers thought it was safe to venture back into the episode threads. Ali, I know you don't intend to be insulting because you seem like a really nice person, but shippers have the right to express their opinion just like the tech lovers who talk about technical aspects of the show. The episode was enjoyable in a huge way to the Ronon/Teyla and John/Elizabeth shippers. Can we let them get their opinion out to TPTB without ridicule?

Please don't accuse me of insulting and ridiculing people when I have done no such thing.

I made a bit of a joke because it made me laugh that 95% of that post was squeeing over shippery interpretations of the ep. I never said anyone is not entitled to express their opinion - but you should also be aware that everyone else's opinion is valid too and where you see ship others may see just friendship - and I am equally as entitled to express my opinion that, much as I loved the episode and adored the character interactions, it wasn't all about ship for me.

You seem to have something of a chip on your shoulder about being attacked for posting shippy opinions - I'm sorry you feel that way and that people have obviously attacked you in the past to make you feel that way but please don't tar me with the same brush just because I don't see the ep through shippy glasses.

I've always gotten on well with you in the past and would hate to fall out with you over something as silly as this.

FoolishPleasure
December 1st, 2006, 09:05 AM
Please don't accuse me of insulting and ridiculing people when I have done no such thing.

I made a bit of a joke because it made me laugh that 95% of that post was squeeing over shippery interpretations of the ep. I never said anyone is not entitled to express their opinion - but you should also be aware that everyone else's opinion is valid too and where you see ship others may see just friendship - and I am equally as entitled to express my opinion that, much as I loved the episode and adored the character interactions, it wasn't all about ship for me.

I too felt your original post was overly snarky towards shippers, as if only the tech aspects of the episode were worth discussing, but I also understand that frequently humor doesn't come across the same in writing.

The reason so many shippers have come out to praise this episode is because TPTB have written "ship" so badly in the past, and this time they actually put together a very good story that incorporated not one, but TWO ship aspects, and both were done very well, in addition to integrating all the main and recurring characters. Big thumbs up all the way around.

I just hope TPTB can continue this trend without jerking around both shippers, and non-shippers like they have in the past. That has been the biggest complaint I have had about SGA from the beginning.

Trialia
December 1st, 2006, 09:19 AM
Sparky = Shep/Weir pairing, Spanky = Ronon/Teyla pairing

Still can't figure out the history of those terms though...
Sparky came from a conversation on one of the Sheppard/Weir Yahoo groups where alternative nicknames for the 'ship like the one that really makes me cringe were joked about and suggested. It gradually got latched onto by other 'shippers, and now it's pretty much tongue-in-cheek cuteness from most of us, least that's how I and a lot of other J/E 'shippers I know use it.

Spanky came from that scene in "The Lost Boys" where Ronon steals Teyla's food while they're hyped up on the enzyme and they start fighting with big grins on their faces. :P


Also, Ali, yes, what you said came across in an insulting fashion, so I'd be more careful in your phrasing if I were you. -- and you don't need to say "well you're not", either.

Luz
December 1st, 2006, 09:23 AM
You seem to have something of a chip on your shoulder about being attacked for posting shippy opinions - I'm sorry you feel that way and that people have obviously attacked you in the past to make you feel that way but please don't tar me with the same brush just because I don't see the ep through shippy glasses.

I've always gotten on well with you in the past and would hate to fall out with you over something as silly as this.

To be fair I can see where SR was coming from, as a shipper myself I've often felt apprehensive about even muttering the word 'ship' on the episode threads, or to mention if I liked any sort of interactions between any F/M characters. However as a fan of Mc/Shep I've never felt like this. I know if I talk about any sort of bond I might feel from any of my het pairings on an episode some people might feel uncomfortable.
But with Sheppard and McKay I know that I can come here and talk about how cute I thought they were, and how much I loved their scenes together, and how much I love my boys, without fearing any sort of backlash.

bluealien
December 1st, 2006, 10:33 AM
I too felt your original post was overly snarky towards shippers, as if only the tech aspects of the episode were worth discussing, but I also understand that frequently humor doesn't come across the same in writing.

The reason so many shippers have come out to praise this episode is because TPTB have written "ship" so badly in the past, and this time they actually put together a very good story that incorporated not one, but TWO ship aspects, and both were done very well, in addition to integrating all the main and recurring characters. Big thumbs up all the way around.

I just hope TPTB can continue this trend without jerking around both shippers, and non-shippers like they have in the past. That has been the biggest complaint I have had about SGA from the beginning.

Don't really want to get into the whole shipping debate here as its not the place but to say that ship has been written badly in the past in just a matter of opinion or even if there was any "ship" at all, because it is all down to personal interpretation.

Some see ship, some don't, and whats "bad" to some is "great" to others.


On to the ep - this is certaintly one of my favourite eps of the season so far. It had a wonderful combination of friendship, humour and a bit of angst. Loved how everyone got to do something and it was wonderful to see Teyla get a good role. Loved her interaction with Ronan and how those two tease and make fun of each other. A nice caring bond has developed between them.

John and Rodney had to be the highlight of this ep though - I don't like the snark to be overdone but Carl Binder did it to perfection here IMO. The infirmary scene was hilarious and I enjoyed their banter throughout the entire ep. Loved Sheps concern over Rodney in the jumper and Teyla in the infirmary. This shows again how close he has become to his team and how he considers them his family. His look of determination to find a solution to the threat was clearly shown on his face when he saw how ill Teyla had become. I loved the fact that is was John who came up with the plan as it it usually Rodney.

All in all a great ep - my only little nitpick which has been already mentioned is that John and Rodney would never have recovered as quickly as they did from perforated eardrums.

But I'm willing to overlook this because I enjoyed the ep so much.

Luz
December 1st, 2006, 11:03 AM
His look of determination to find a solution to the threat was clearly shown on his face when he saw how ill Teyla had become.
At first I squeed because I thought seeing Elizabeth getting sick had prompted him to go and do something, but then a fellow shipmate reminded me of the dead guy (sometimes squeeage might keep you from seeing the bigger picture), so upon further examination I thought it was seeing someone actually dying from the ailment what caused Sheppard to put his plan into action, but that's off course IMO.

Trialia
December 1st, 2006, 11:08 AM
At first I squeed because I thought seeing Elizabeth getting sick had prompted him to go and do something, but then a fellow shipmate reminded me of the dead guy (sometimes squeeage might keep you from seeing the bigger picture), so upon further examination I thought it was seeing someone actually dying from the ailment what caused Sheppard to put his plan into action, but that's off course IMO.

Even from the viewpoint of a J/E 'shipper, I have to agree with your assessment of it. It seems the most rational I've heard.

Luz
December 1st, 2006, 11:16 AM
Even from the viewpoint of a J/E 'shipper, I have to agree with your assessment of it. It seems the most rational I've heard.

See, this makes me feel a bit ashamed of myself, because I'd seen the episode once, so I was all "omfgjonhcarriedelizabethimgonnadie!!11!!111!!", and I was thinking "andseehowhesawhersickandhadtogoandsavetheworldMYHERO*izded*". I can't remember who was it that told me "but hon, it was because of the dead man", and I was all "huh?! dead guy?, when was that?". So I went and watched again and there he was, and I hadn't even noticed. *headdesk*

Trialia
December 1st, 2006, 11:19 AM
See, this makes me feel a bit ashamed of myself, because I'd seen the episode once, so I was all "omfgjonhcarriedelizabethimgonnadie!!11!!111!!", and I was thinking "andseehowhesawhersickandhadtogoandsavetheworldMYHERO*izded*". I can't remember who was it that told me "but hon, it was because of the dead man", and I was all "huh?! dead guy?, when was that?". So I went and watched again and there he was, and I hadn't even noticed. *headdesk*

Ah, I see! Well, you can see from my assessment that I noticed first time. :P "Running out of time to save the rest" was my thought...

Iguana775
December 1st, 2006, 11:30 AM
so, if Ronan collapsed in front of Shep and carried him to the infirmary, would that mean that they would ship???? :D :eek: :P

and I agree with Luz....


I thought it was seeing someone actually dying from the ailment what caused Sheppard to put his plan into action, but that's off course IMO.

Trialia
December 1st, 2006, 11:32 AM
so, if Ronan collapsed in front of Shep and carried him to the infirmary, would that mean that they would ship???? :D :eek: :P

and I agree with Luz....
Maybe. ;) Although I prefer to 'ship Ronon with Teyla or Rodney or Radek myself... :P

NinaM
December 1st, 2006, 11:34 AM
I truly enjoyed the episode...and it had nothing to do with anything shippy,,, We all see differnet things... some people saying how ship has been written bad in the past,,(why because it wasn't of the ship they might want to see,,) well that's an opinion.. but everyone can't share it... the same goes for what is ship and what isn't,,,

The episode was great in the aspect that had everyone being able to do something more then just some standing in the background...
I loved the funny parts between John and Rodney... the infirmary scene, the whole sneaking out thing, the whole talk of whales, Rodney giving Sheppard military hand signals and John's priceless look in that scene...

Liked the scenes with Ronon and Teyla,,, since it got me the feeling of just how good friends they are and that to me they have a sister/brother relationship...

In Weir and Sheppard I saw two leaders who needed to find a solution to what was happening...

Sheppard seeing how bad it has gotten when he sees the first one who died from everything that has happened,,,yes I might very well agree that this might very well have been the point where he saw he needed to do something,,,however I do think seeing Teyla had just as an impact on him,,since he did see that he really needed to come up with something fast or he might very well be faced with loosing someone close to him on the team...

I'm actually glad it was Sheppard's plan and not always Rodney who was going to figure it out....

So for me a great episode ,,that was a team episode, everyone had more to do, had more screentime, the friendship, the humor, that once again it had to do with the city and not something going on off world...don't think we've seen to many of those over the seasons,,,

Luz
December 1st, 2006, 11:35 AM
so, if Ronan collapsed in front of Shep and carried him to the infirmary, would that mean that they would ship???? :D :eek: :P

and I agree with Luz....

Shep carrying Ronon would probably mean a back injury for poor Shep, and that would be Shep!Whumping, and possibly angst for Ronon since he'd be blaming himself for sending poor Shep to the infirmary, I'd clasify that as H/C, so my answer to that question would be a: yes.

ETA: but it was rhetorical question, so nevermind.

LiveLongAndProsper
December 1st, 2006, 11:38 AM
Is 'ship' short for 'relationship' as in romance? If so, and if people think this episode has 'ship' then it's so loosely defined I think people are grasping. It's not the first time Sheppard has carried, held, or responded to a woman fainting or injured, nor will it probably be the last.

About 'Echoes':

I finaly got to see it, and I liked it. Not the very best, but certainly it continues the trend this season of providing mostly solid, entertaining episodes.

I found a few parts humorous: the shouting, McKay's attachement to the whale most notably. I find it hard to believe that the ship didn't suffer more damage than it did and that McKay and Sheppard recovered so quickly, but I can live with that. It's about time they did an episode about the whales, since the city is surrounded by water. Hopefully they'll do more.

I really like the Sheppard/McKay scenes. Despite the amount of bickering and snark, you can tell they're good friends and they compliment each other in an 'odd couple' sort of way. It was very good to see Teyla utilized. Hopefully we'll see more of her.

Overall, I'm pleased with this episode. I await the rest of the season.

FoolishPleasure
December 1st, 2006, 11:52 AM
so, if Ronan collapsed in front of Shep and carried him to the infirmary, would that mean that they would ship???? :D :eek: :P

I agree with Luz, if Ronon collapsed, Shep wouldn't try to carry him because there are no chiropractors in Atlantis, and he would definitely be in need of one. But I could see Shep holding Ronon's hand and comforting him until Beckett arrived. Unless Beckett was preoccupied with Rodney, after Rodney had dinner with Radek, and after Radek spent his day off with Lorne, who just returned after three weeks on the Daedelus with Caldwell.

Um. Nevermind. ;) :)

Alipeeps
December 1st, 2006, 01:39 PM
I too felt your original post was overly snarky towards shippers, as if only the tech aspects of the episode were worth discussing, but I also understand that frequently humor doesn't come across the same in writing.

The reason so many shippers have come out to praise this episode is because TPTB have written "ship" so badly in the past, and this time they actually put together a very good story that incorporated not one, but TWO ship aspects, and both were done very well, in addition to integrating all the main and recurring characters. Big thumbs up all the way around.

I just hope TPTB can continue this trend without jerking around both shippers, and non-shippers like they have in the past. That has been the biggest complaint I have had about SGA from the beginning.

Well, I have already explained the intention of my post and that it was not meant to be insulting - I think certain people may have had a bad experience with the old shipper wars in the past and are a tad over-sensitive. As it happens, I'm not anti-ship so you don't have any need to jump on my every comment in case I'm trying to be insulting. However, if the intended humour of my post did not translate as intended then I apologise.

I will reiterate again: I never said only the tech aspects of the ep were worth discussing (no idea where you got that idea from) and if you read my posts in this thread you will see that I also have picked out many of the same parts of the ep as those who are ship-fans as being wonderful, favourite moments of the ep. I just happen to view them more as friendship moments than ship moments - that's my perogative as it is anyone else's to view them as shippy. It's all open to interpretation - deliberately so - and no one view can be stated to be fact.

What I found funny about the post I quoted was that so much of it consisted of "Eeeeh sparky!" or "Eeeek spanky!" or words to that effect. I totally get that someone who is into ship would be giddy over this episode - I just found it amusing that the poster was so giddy that the shipper squee had pretty much taken over her post! I'd possibly be the same about a whumpy episode... I probably had a similar reaction to Common Ground from that perspective... and if someone had pointed that out or giggled about it I would probably have agreed with them and giggled myself. I wouldn't have assumed they were attacking me over it. But as I say, I think past difficulties with ship issues have left their mark and people feel sensitive about such issues.

I don't think this thread is the place for shipper vs non-shipper arguments. I love that this ep works wonderfully whether you ship or not. I thoroughly enjoyed the character moments in this ep - and yeah, got a wee bit of a shippy thrill from some of them, though I don't ship in general (but hey, we all like a bit of a hint of something now and then and who can deny that - whether you ship or not - it's kinda a romantic gesture for a man to carry an unconscious woman to the infirmary.. yeah, I admit, I squeed a little.. ;)) - and also the fact that the ep worked so well, utilising every member of the cast and giving them all not only a useful contribution to the story but also a bit of something to do, gave us a little glimpse into their day to day lives. I loved that.

Did I mention I really enjoyed this ep? :D

Luz
December 1st, 2006, 01:42 PM
What I found funny about the post I quoted was that so much of it consisted of "Eeeeh sparky!" or "Eeeek spanky!" or words to that effect. I totally get that someone who is into ship would be giddy over this episode - I just found it amusing that the poster was so giddy that the shipper squee had pretty much taken over her post! I'd possibly be the same about a whumpy episode... I probably had a similar reaction to Common Ground from that perspective... and if someone had pointed that out or giggled about it I would probably have agreed with them and giggled myself.

As a shipper/whumper/thunker/wower/slasher, I can totally understand the concept of being overcome by squee, happens to me everytime these people appear on-screen on any capacity. :D

Alipeeps
December 1st, 2006, 02:14 PM
As a shipper/whumper/thunker/wower/slasher, I can totally understand the concept of being overcome by squee, happens to me everytime these people appear on-screen on any capacity. :D

You should see the amount of squeeing that goes on in the Shep whump thread! :lol: And there was sure a fair amount of it over this ep too what with headachey-Shep, bleeding-from-the-ears-Shep, angsty worried-about-his-friend-Shep, DeafShep(TM), infirmary-Shep and escaping-from-the-infirmary-Shep! :D :D

Luz
December 1st, 2006, 02:15 PM
You should see the amount of squeeing that goes on in the Shep whump thread! :lol:
Oh, I've seen it, I lurk there. :)

Flyboy
December 1st, 2006, 02:36 PM
did they?
why didn't they give the zpm to the Daedalus to keep the shows separate?
For the same reason Earth gave THEIR ZPM from Moebius to Atlantis.

The two shows are not stand alone I'm afraid, they're part of the same universe and are used to support each other. Those ZPMs will prolly come in handy in SG1 later in the season.

Ronnikins
December 1st, 2006, 02:38 PM
As a shipper/whumper/thunker/wower/slasher, I can totally understand the concept of being overcome by squee, happens to me everytime these people appear on-screen on any capacity. :D

At first I read "wowser" not "wower". Hee! That's the feminine form of thunking if I'm not mistakened?

Ali, thanks for explaining yourself more clearly. I wasn't around for the shipper wars but I believe it did leave a scar on their psyche so if anybody's over-sensitive, it's quite understandable.
It's only just now that more shippers are leaving the safety of their own threads to give out their viewpoints without cringing too much about other posters putting them down in one form or another. All posters are entitled to post their views here and this provides a better balance for the episode overall.

Have to confess, as much as the shipper in me enjoyed the scene of Shep carrying Weir to the infirmary (squee), the real reason why Shep went out and did his heroics was because he realised more people will die if he didn't do something quick smart, so it's not because of Elizabeth, Teyla or even Ronon (Why Ronon? Because Ronon cares for Teyla and Shep doesn't like to see him unhappy....see? One can put a spin on anything.) :)

Technical side: On perforated eardrum.....normally, depending on the size of the perforation, it will heal spontaneously in a couple of months. More serious cases will require surgery. Once the eardrum is ruptured there will be some hearing loss and tinnitus (ringing of ears) . People can go about their normal routines and any pain can be alleviated with meds. The hearing loss is usually temporary and can come back to normal in a few days. How this relates to Rodney and Shep acting all normal again after such a short space of time? No idea! :P

And yes, I really enjoyed this episode. Kudos!

Luz
December 1st, 2006, 02:57 PM
Technical side: On perforated eardrum.....normally, depending on the size of the perforation, it will heal spontaneously in a couple of months. More serious cases will require surgery. Once the eardrum is ruptured there will be some hearing loss and tinnitus (ringing of ears) . People can go about their normal routines and any pain can be alleviated with meds. The hearing loss is usually temporary and can come back to normal in a few days. How this relates to Rodney and Shep acting all normal again after such a short space of time? No idea! :P

And yes, I really enjoyed this episode. Kudos!

I had a perforated eardrum (like ten years ago), due to a trauma, I don't know how the cases vary, but it took me a couple months to heal, I didn't even had to take pain medication because it was only a dull ache. It healed on its own, no need for surgery or anything like that, I suffered from diminished hearing on that side (the left one), and had to wear plugs in the shower.
But as I have understood, it can be worse, depends on the damage.

Trialia
December 1st, 2006, 03:00 PM
They can be much worse. *nods* My stepmother suffered a perforated eardrum about fifteen years ago, and her hearing on that side is permanently impaired.

CalmStorm
December 1st, 2006, 03:07 PM
Technical side: On perforated eardrum.....normally, depending on the size of the perforation, it will heal spontaneously in a couple of months. More serious cases will require surgery. Once the eardrum is ruptured there will be some hearing loss and tinnitus (ringing of ears) . People can go about their normal routines and any pain can be alleviated with meds. The hearing loss is usually temporary and can come back to normal in a few days. How this relates to Rodney and Shep acting all normal again after such a short space of time? No idea! :P



Magic ancient medical devices ;) It'll cure what ails you instantly ..like it never happened.

expendable_crewman
December 1st, 2006, 03:33 PM
Well, I have already explained the intention of my post and that it was not meant to be insulting ... Did I mention I really enjoyed this ep? :DHonestly, I didn't see it as insulting ... but then, I was reading the pages leading up to the comment thinking, wow, look how everyone is getting along.

You're right, there's squee going on everywhere. The episode made lots of people happy. Shippers of every combo I'm aware of (???), whumpers, thunkers ... you name it. The tech people are happy. The "water" people are happy. As I read your comment, I was thinking about that too and for me your comment fell into context.

The ep was good. I don't squee, but if I did, I'd squee about getting two eps with lots to do in the water.

I've been hoping for more on the whales since GUP.

We're getting more info on Atlantis, even more info about the Ancients.

My first viewing, I missed 100% every reference to Helia and her Ancients. My second viewing, I realized someone refers to the "murdered" Ancients a few times, even keying on how their deaths might be affecting the expedition. So not a complete reset from R2.

There were some good laugh moments. The team moments were well done. I like Sheppard and McKay friendship moments, so I enjoyed Sheppard's semi-interest in "Sam" turning into a jumper trip.

Teyla and Ronon looked good sparring. She won, and that's a good demo of brains over brawn, which is a comment on their fighting styles, not about the characters themselves ... although I got a kick out of Ronon's asking, "So they're doing good?" or something like it.

Giving Teyla and Ronon a chance within the story to show their brother/sister bond was nice. I've read about the bond in interviews, so I was looking forward to a demo within the show, and there it was.

I found Heightmeyer acted pretty much the way I would expect her to, given the evidence at hand, so I was pleased with the scenes the three ladies had together.

All the characters were brought into this one, Caldwell and Zelenka too, plus a baby whale, and a lot was done. There was an abundance of tech-speak ... yeah, I like that ... Atlantis can't figure in every episode but two in a row ... a city in jeopardy, really good friendship interaction, the Daedalus standing up to a sun ... thank you very much ... That's what's called "tight" writing.

Trialia
December 1st, 2006, 03:44 PM
Just one thing EC-- not meaning to bash anyone who doesn't see Teyla/Ronon 'ship or anything, but if I had a brother and he held my hand and touched my face like that, I'd run a mile.

Ruined_puzzle
December 1st, 2006, 03:50 PM
Just one thing EC-- not meaning to bash anyone who doesn't see Teyla/Ronon 'ship or anything, but if I had a brother and he held my hand and touched my face like that, I'd run a mile.

I have a brother and that though disturbs me. Eeek.

I know people have different relationships but still it freaks me out thinking of Ronon/Teyla as brother and sister.

Trialia
December 1st, 2006, 03:53 PM
I have a bother and that though disturbs me. Eeek.

I know people have different relationships but still it freaks me out thinking of Ronon/Teyla as brother and sister.
I know. Okay, so Rachel and Jason feel like brother and sister-- when they're in character they certainly don't ACT it. 0_0;

prion
December 1st, 2006, 03:55 PM
so, if Ronan collapsed in front of Shep and carried him to the infirmary, would that mean that they would ship???? :D :eek: :P

and I agree with Luz....

so glad I wasn't drinking the hot chocolate when i read that as I visualized Shep trying to pick up Ronon like he did with Weir, and well, all I could think was a squeak/squawk of pain and the word "hernia!" being ground out from someone's mouth ;)

prion
December 1st, 2006, 04:00 PM
Just one thing EC-- not meaning to bash anyone who doesn't see Teyla/Ronon 'ship or anything, but if I had a brother and he held my hand and touched my face like that, I'd run a mile.

Whoa, okay, I had to go back and look.... well, with American customs, yes, that would be, uh... odd... but with other cultures, hard to tell. Hmm.... maybe Satedans are chummier between siblings? :) (But no, eek, nothing like Angelina Jolie and her brother and that infamous kiss, eeeuuuuuuu!)

Trialia
December 1st, 2006, 04:06 PM
Whoa, okay, I had to go back and look.... well, with American customs, yes, that would be, uh... odd... but with other cultures, hard to tell. Hmm.... maybe Satedans are chummier between siblings? :) (But no, eek, nothing like Angelina Jolie and her brother and that infamous kiss, eeeuuuuuuu!)
I'm not American. But Western customs, yes. Plus, the way he looked and smiled at her, that would make me want to run if he were my brother, as well.

Angelina? This I know nothing about... and please don't tell me! :P

Alipeeps
December 1st, 2006, 04:14 PM
Just one thing EC-- not meaning to bash anyone who doesn't see Teyla/Ronon 'ship or anything, but if I had a brother and he held my hand and touched my face like that, I'd run a mile.

Uhhhh.. I dunno. That scene was pretty close to being a deathbed scene... I can't say I could see my own brother behaving like that - because that's just not him at all - but I could certainly see, say, my sister doing something like that if I was really deathly ill and she was upset and worried for me and trying to convince me to hold on a little longer....

bluealien
December 1st, 2006, 04:14 PM
I'm not American. But Western customs, yes. Plus, the way he looked and smiled at her, that would make me want to run if he were my brother, as well.

Angelina? This I know nothing about... and please don't tell me! :P

What a brother is not allowed to show affection - since when!!

He held her hand and moved her face to look at him - I could see this happening between anyone who cares for one another, friends or brothers.

The brother sister vibe is not so unbelievable as BOTH Rachel and Jason have said that this is how they see each others characters.

Luz
December 1st, 2006, 04:18 PM
Whoa, okay, I had to go back and look.... well, with American customs, yes, that would be, uh... odd... but with other cultures, hard to tell. Hmm.... maybe Satedans are chummier between siblings? :) (But no, eek, nothing like Angelina Jolie and her brother and that infamous kiss, eeeuuuuuuu!)

Get out of my brain, ;D I read "chummier siblings" and thought "Angie and brother", it all depends on how we grow up, and the way we relate to others.
I can think of a few pairings I just can't see, but I'm not about to go to the shippers of those pairings and tell them that they can't ship them because I don't see those, or because so and so says so.

A lot of people see Sheppard and McKay as brotherly, that doesn't make them any less hot to my eyes. *shrug* To each their own I guess.

Mitchell82
December 1st, 2006, 04:18 PM
For the same reason Earth gave THEIR ZPM from Moebius to Atlantis.

The two shows are not stand alone I'm afraid, they're part of the same universe and are used to support each other. Those ZPMs will prolly come in handy in SG1 later in the season.

Yeah it probably will. I can see the reason also and agree with it. We don't need all three unless we repair the Stardrive.

LoveConquers
December 1st, 2006, 04:22 PM
Whoa, okay, I had to go back and look.... well, with American customs, yes, that would be, uh... odd... but with other cultures, hard to tell. Hmm.... maybe Satedans are chummier between siblings? :) (But no, eek, nothing like Angelina Jolie and her brother and that infamous kiss, eeeuuuuuuu!)


Sorry for jumping in on your conversation! Just wanted to add that in a life and death situation, it is very possible and very plausible. Obviously it depends upon the relationship and the situation though, as others have already mentioned.

As an example, one of my best friend was in a very serious car accident two weeks ago. She has a broken neck and the first few days in the hospital were very intense and scary. She does not have much family left, but she has a brother and she has her friends. Four of us took turns sitting with her around the clock, holding her hand, and talking to her, her brother included. When someone is crying from the pain and begging to have it all stop, you think nothing of grabbing that hand and giving them that human connection. It is purely instinctive, purely reactive, purely love. You are that person's lifeline, and in that situation, it makes perfect sense, no matter the relationship. You are simply two human beings connecting.


In regards to the question of Shep lifting Ronon, that is also purely plausible (if such a thing were to ever occur that is! :) ) I am a trained first responder and part of our training is in lifting dead weight bodies, no matter the size in proportion to your own. Hence, the fireman carry. That is the method used in someone who outweighs you. There is a limit to this position as well of course, but you can carry more weight than most realize this way.

Final comment. Loved the ep! Not my favorite, but I really enjoyed it. I loved the balance of screen time for all our wonderful characters.

Trialia
December 1st, 2006, 04:25 PM
I'm not telling anybody what they can or can't see, I'm just saying that if I had a brother and he smiled at me in that particular way, I'd run like hell, because that did NOT look like sibling affection to me-- and I do have a sibling, in case anyone who's been haranguing my point of view was wondering.

Alipeeps
December 1st, 2006, 04:33 PM
I'm not telling anybody what they can or can't see, I'm just saying that if I had a brother and he smiled at me in that particular way, I'd run like hell, because that did NOT look like sibling affection to me-- and I do have a sibling, in case anyone who's been haranguing my point of view was wondering.

As said above, everyone sees what they want to in an ep and no one interpretation is any more or less valid than another. I don't think anyone's "haranguing" your point of view, just stating their own views which may not match up with yours.

Personally, I can see it shippy or not. I'm take it or leave it when it comes to ships.. I enjoy elements of shipperiness and can get a bit of squee out of seeing something that I can view as shippy if I'm in the mood, but it's not the most important element to the show, or an ep, for me and I generally enjoy the eps on a "friendship-only" level. I think the Ronon/Teyla infirmary scene works well from either point of view...

CalmStorm
December 1st, 2006, 04:57 PM
What a brother is not allowed to show affection - since when!!

He held her hand and moved her face to look at him - I could see this happening between anyone who cares for one another, friends or brothers.

The brother sister vibe is not so unbelievable as BOTH Rachel and Jason have said that this is how they see each others characters.

It's a little hard to tell with that scene. To me, that one and the others with those two together did not seem like brother and sister.

Quite honestly, I was just thrown that he acted in that manner period. For some reason, to me, it was a little creepy given his tough guy, brute appearance and attitude. I'm not saying that he is not sensitive. I think that with Teyla, Shep, McKay, Carson and Weir, he has grown to care about them a great deal. Also to the point of where, like Shep, he would do anyting for anyone of them. It was just a little wierd seeing him all touchy feely and calming. I think that it was his trying to be calming that threw me the most.

LoveConquers
December 1st, 2006, 05:13 PM
It's a little hard to tell with that scene. To me, that one and the others with those two together did not seem like brother and sister.

Quite honestly, I was just thrown that he acted in that manner period. For some reason, to me, it was a little creepy given his tough guy, brute appearance and attitude. I'm not saying that he is not sensitive. I think that with Teyla, Shep, McKay, Carson and Weir, he has grown to care about them a great deal. Also to the point of where, like Shep, he would do anyting for anyone of them. It was just a little wierd seeing him all touchy feely and calming. I think that it was his trying to be calming that threw me the most.

To continue my example above, I am not a touchy-feeling person. In normal situations, I can even be seen as a bit stand-offish sometimes. But when someone is in danger or in pain, I am there. I have held the hand of strangers, cupped their chins to keep their focus on me, wiped the tears from their eyes, stroked their arm, rubbed their back and smiled tenderly. It is about giving care and comfort. With my friend, until her accident I had never held her hand, wiped her tears, rubbed her back, kissed her cheek. But I did all those things. With both my sisters, I most certainly do not hold their hands, but when they were giving birth and I was there with them, I was right there, stroking their sweating foreheads and holding their hands and smiling through tender tears of encouragement. That would never and does not occur in normal situations because I am not that kind of person.

People can surprise you in certain situations. I can understand your point, but I also know it is possible for Ronon to be with Teyla the way that he was and have it not necessarily be a romantic moment. I have been in similar situations, so I can speak from experience. Sometimes a touch is just a touch. How we all interpret that is up to us. :)

Luz
December 1st, 2006, 05:27 PM
As said above, everyone sees what they want to in an ep and no one interpretation is any more or less valid than another. I don't think anyone's "haranguing" your point of view, just stating their own views which may not match up with yours.

Exactly, everyone will see whatever they see, no one can get into other people's brains to see episodes with that person's eyes or thought processes. If you see something as shippy chances are you'll always find someone who doesn't agree.
I like the more open to interpretation moments because everyone can take what they want from them, be it friendship or ship, or family interaction. If I want something more explicit I'll look for fanfic, in the show I prefer things to be a bit more subtle.

Uber
December 1st, 2006, 10:22 PM
I really enjoyed this episode.

Although at first the pacing was a big sluggish, I like the fact that I didn't know what was going to happen...that the Act 4 surprise was just that to me...a surprise.

Character wise, I enjoyed the easy rapport that's built between the cast members. Shep and Meredith ;) always have a great banter and then there's McKay and a whale named Sam. ROFL. Too cute. But what was great for me was to see that yes, the writers do remember every now and then there are other characters and hey look! they can interact and everything! In fact, wildly enough, pretty much everyone got to interact with someone else at some point...which is always a plus. (((Brad & Carl)))

Zelenka is my dark horse...completely underused and underappreciated most of the time (with the exception of Jeanie who seemed to appreciate his talent)...and I was so glad to see him get some screen time here.

Elizabeth was great in this too...her back and forth with McKay always puts a smile on my face. It kind of reminds me of the resigned acceptance Sam has with him...knowing he's a bit full of himself but he's also brilliant...so tweak him whenever you get the chance because he deserves it but also appreciate it when he saves the day. She is kind of the mother hen of the motley crew.

Too bad we didn't get a face to face confrontation between Elizabeth and Colonel Caldwell though. I really enjoy the tension between them and have loved it since Critical Mass. Knowing her roots...how at one point in her life she lobbied against the government spending money on the military, it's fun to see her butt heads with someone who's all military all the time.

Beckett...he was just so sweet like always. I adore him truly. He is so good at what he does and he has such great chemistry with the team.

And speaking of chemistry...Teyla and Ronon. Wow. Okay so I read some people say that the vibe between them is brotherly/sisterly...but I don't feel that way at all. It seemed to be much more than that. But then I've been a huge fan of their relationship since Inferno. I'd love to see something happen there...if only in fanfic.

As for the episode itself...well as I said, the first part seemed to plod a little bit. But in a way that's good because it lulled me into a false sense of security. But once things started popping, they really popped. Back to the relationships for a second, I loved how everyone genuinely cared about the welfare of those who were hurting...how John carried Liz and how Ronon carried Teyla...and the honest concern people shared about those who were in pain.

The solution was clever to me...I certainly didn't see it coming...and I enjoyed how the whales communicated the danger through genetic memory. At first I feared that the story would resolve itself with the whales being the threat themselves and I'm glad that we didn't get a cliche evil sea monster episode.

I'll watch this one again...most definitely...firstly, because I thoughly enjoyed the character interactions as I've made pretty clear...but also because I want to catch nuances I might have missed the first time.

Great ep.

bandras
December 2nd, 2006, 01:45 AM
The whale-flare storyline was good, and what I liked the most was that "we" didn't depleted an another ZPM, cause it's getting tiresome that 'serious' things always happen after they finally get a ZPM from somewhere.
The flare on the shield animation was beautiful, and when Shep and McKay were in the jumper underwater and the whale 'looked in' that was great too.

Alipeeps
December 2nd, 2006, 02:36 AM
I like the more open to interpretation moments because everyone can take what they want from them, be it friendship or ship, or family interaction. If I want something more explicit I'll look for fanfic, in the show I prefer things to be a bit more subtle.

Thank you - that is so well put and is exactly my feelings on the subject. It's part of what I love about this show - stuff like that is kept subtle so that you can enjoy it whatever your preference... :D

Aussie_Fan
December 2nd, 2006, 03:07 AM
Just one thing EC-- not meaning to bash anyone who doesn't see Teyla/Ronon 'ship or anything, but if I had a brother and he held my hand and touched my face like that, I'd run a mile.

Lol, I was thinking that as well! I've got three brothers and none of them treat me like that.. If they did I would be up and running as well :P *no offence ment to any non-shippers out there*


I loved this ep! All the character interaction plus an original plot! (as far as I know). Carl is my all time fav writer. He should win some type of award or something :P :D

Keep up the good writing!

bandras
December 2nd, 2006, 03:15 AM
If someone wrote this before then I'm really sorry
Did you notice, that what is written on the uniform of the burnt pilot is
'FLYINGMAN' with ancient characters. it's a shame that it's not something latin, but at least it's not gibberish.

LoveConquers
December 2nd, 2006, 09:36 AM
If someone wrote this before then I'm really sorry
Did you notice, that what is written on the uniform of the burnt pilot is
'FLYINGMAN' with ancient characters. it's a shame that it's not something latin, but at least it's not gibberish.

As far as I know, that hasn't been commented on it! Good eye! Forgive my ignorance, just curious, but why would an Ancient pilot have his signa be in Latin and not Ancient?

LoveConquers
December 2nd, 2006, 09:39 AM
The whale-flare storyline was good, and what I liked the most was that "we" didn't depleted an another ZPM, cause it's getting tiresome that 'serious' things always happen after they finally get a ZPM from somewhere.
The flare on the shield animation was beautiful, and when Shep and McKay were in the jumper underwater and the whale 'looked in' that was great too.

Agreed. If we had lost yet another ZPM so quickly, I would have screamed. Especially in light of rumors of the upcoming episode

First Strike where Atlantis will once again be cut off from earth. It sounds like they already plan to deplete the thing by the end of the season anyway.

Nolamom
December 2nd, 2006, 12:17 PM
I have to wonder if tptb aren't planning a little bit of a change in the relationship between Teyla and Ronnin...a bit less siblingesque? This may have been Binder's first step in that direction.

Luz
December 2nd, 2006, 12:24 PM
I was watching this episode again, and *shudder* that woman who Teyla sees at the beginning (the 'ghost') is really creepy, the first time I saw her I thought she was the banshee.

LoveConquers
December 2nd, 2006, 12:36 PM
I have to wonder if tptb aren't planning a little bit of a change in the relationship between Teyla and Ronnin...a bit less siblingesque? This may have been Binder's first step in thatdirection.


They have to mix all the characters up, so we will of course get eps like this where we see Teyla with various pairings. This ep reminds me of Critical Mass, where Teyla going through an emotional trauma is the B story. In that ep, Carson helped her and supported her through Charin's death. And there were people that immediately screamed Teyla/Carson ship after it aired. As we saw, nothing came of that. It is the same with this ep now, Ronon helped Teyla through an emotional time and now people are again screaming Teyla/Ronon ship anew. In both eps, the men supported her emotionally. Emotional support does not automatically equal romance. I can give you example after example of this in my own real life. I do not believe the writers are playing the fans as some have stated. In my opinion, they are more firmly establishing all the relationships between all the characters.

Producer Joe Mallozzi has referred to Ronon and Teyla as having a brother/sister relationship. For over two years, Jason M. (Ronon) has consistently also made comments that Ronon/Teyla have a brother/sister relationship, his last comments being just a few weeks ago at the NJ Con where he stated Ronon and Teyla are "too obvious" and would be like "inbreeding." This is after they had finished filming season three. In my opinion, the producers, writers, and actors have been very clear on where they stand all along. But people still interpret things differently and see what they want to see. I myself can see that friendship that Jason M. refers to consistently.

I think at this point, the mutual agreement is that everyone loved the Ronon/Teyla scenes, regardless of how they interpreted them! :) I hope we will continue to see their relationship develop like we did in Echoes! I want to see more character development and relationship development between all our beloved characters. That is one of the things that has made season three my favorite so far!

Falcon Horus
December 2nd, 2006, 12:37 PM
I was watching this episode again, and *shudder* that woman who Teyla sees at the beginning (the 'ghost') is really creepy, the first time I saw her I thought she was the banshee.

Absolutely right.

She just stares right ahead, talking gibberish. That actrice did a really good job. She was just scary.

LoveConquers
December 2nd, 2006, 12:39 PM
I was watching this episode again, and *shudder* that woman who Teyla sees at the beginning (the 'ghost') is really creepy, the first time I saw her I thought she was the banshee.


LOL! She was a bit creepy, wasn't she! The burned man was pretty nasty as well. Great make-up and effects in this one! :)

Luz
December 2nd, 2006, 12:41 PM
Producer Joe Mallozzi has referred to Ronon and Teyla as having a brother/sister relationship. For over two years, Jason M. (Ronon) has consistently also made comments that Ronon/Teyla have a brother/sister relationship, his last comments being just a few weeks ago at the NJ Con where he stated Ronon and Teyla are "too obvious" and would be like "inbreeding." This is after they had finished filming season three. In my opinion, the producers, writers, and actors have been very clear on where they stand all along. But people still interpret things differently and see what they want to see. I myself can see that friendship that Jason M. refers to consistently.


So what?, the fans shouldn't see what they see, and shouldn't interpret the show they way they do?, should we all wait for tptb to tell us what we can and cannot think before forming an opinion?, sorry if some of us aren't brainless zombies following tptb's words (because they never try to misguide fans, no sire!) blindly.

LoveConquers
December 2nd, 2006, 12:44 PM
so what?, the fans shouldn't see what they see, and shouldn't interpret the show they way they do, should we all wait for tptb to tell us what we can and cannot think before forming an opinion, sorry if some of us aren't mindless zombies following tptb blindly.

Of course not, and that is not what I said. My apologizes if my comments did not come across appropriately. I was merely stating that I agreed and can see what the producers and actors have commented is their feeling with these two characters. My agreeing does not in anyway negate another's differing opinion.

Luz
December 2nd, 2006, 12:48 PM
Of course not, and that is not what I said. My apologizes if my comments did not come across appropriately. I was merely stating that I agreed and can see what the producers and actors have commented is their feeling with these two characters. My agreeing does not in anyway negate another's differing opinion.
It's okay, only for a moment there it seemed like you were suggesting that people have no right to ship R/T together, just because someone sees them as sibling-like it doesn't mean a thing, they are not really related on the show, so it's not incest.

Trialia
December 2nd, 2006, 12:50 PM
It's okay, only for a moment there it seemed like you were suggesting that people have no right to ship R/T together, just because someone sees them as sibling-like it doesn't mean a thing, they are not really related on the show, so it's not incest.

I've got to be honest, that's how it sounded to me as well.

Each to their own...

LoveConquers
December 2nd, 2006, 01:02 PM
It's okay, only for a moment there it seemed like you were suggesting that people have no right to ship R/T together, just because someone sees them as sibling-like it doesn't mean a thing, they are not really related on the show, so it's not incest.


Again, of course not. My stating my own opinion is the same as your stating your own opinion. My stating that I see friendship as others have seen in no way implies that people should not ship them. The same way I should not assume in that your saying that following the TPTB's words equates mindless zombies that you are in turn calling me a mindless zombie. Of course not. One does not always equate the other.

As I did state, I think at this point, the mutual agreement is that everyone loved the Ronon/Teyla scenes, regardless of how they interpreted them.

bandras
December 2nd, 2006, 02:02 PM
As far as I know, that hasn't been commented on it! Good eye! Forgive my ignorance, just curious, but why would an Ancient pilot have his signa be in Latin and not Ancient?

OK you got me :) . i was gonna write ancient, but latin is a form of the ancient language, isn't it?!

Easter Lily
December 2nd, 2006, 02:22 PM
So what?, the fans shouldn't see what they see, and shouldn't interpret the show they way they do?, should we all wait for tptb to tell us what we can and cannot think before forming an opinion', sorry if some of us aren't brainless zombies following tptb's words (because they never try to misguide fans, no sire!) blindly.

Furthermore, I would take everything that TPTB say with a very large grain of salt. They're very good at dodging the bullet and flannelling.
I'd only believe what I hear when I see it onscreen.

Still, this was a very well-written episode and the relationships integrated decently into the plot.

Uber
December 2nd, 2006, 02:43 PM
LOL! She was a bit creepy, wasn't she! The burned man was pretty nasty as well. Great make-up and effects in this one! :)It was her eyes that wigged me out. Her expression. That in concert with that voice was just way creepy.

RoryJ
December 2nd, 2006, 02:48 PM
In regards to Ronon/Teyla ... they're not my OTP or anything, but I like them together because the actors have great chemistry, and they definitely do not register as siblings to me. But it did seem very sudden to have Ronon be so tender. Although, he's usually quite sweet with her anyways, it just seemed like this episode was the first time in a long time that the writers went back to that aspect of their relationship.

As for TPTB - meh. They said a lot of things about Sam/Jack too. Actors say a lot of things (mostly what they're told to say). I interpret what I see and NEVER what TPTB tell me. And I don't see sibling, lol. :P

expendable_crewman
December 2nd, 2006, 04:29 PM
Just one thing EC-- not meaning to bash anyone who doesn't see Teyla/Ronon 'ship or anything, but if I had a brother and he held my hand and touched my face like that, I'd run a mile.See, that worked for me, given the context of the scene, so, no, I really don't see what you saw.

It's great the way the brother/sister interaction I've been reading (and hearing about) is coming along. Loved the way the ep was able to play it without taking from the main story.

But hey everyone posting ought to enjoy the ep as he or she sees fit ... including me ... me, too ... and to get from the ep what he or she wants.

I'm glad so many people are posting here and so many people liked the episode, whatever the reason.

Hope the word spreads.

The more people watching, the better.

Cheers.

expendable_crewman
December 2nd, 2006, 05:02 PM
Producer Joe Mallozzi has referred to Ronon and Teyla as having a brother/sister relationship. For over two years, Jason M. (Ronon) has consistently also made comments that Ronon/Teyla have a brother/sister relationship, his last comments being just a few weeks ago at the NJ Con where he stated Ronon and Teyla are "too obvious" and would be like "inbreeding." This is after they had finished filming season three. In my opinion, the producers, writers, and actors have been very clear on where they stand all along. But people still interpret things differently and see what they want to see. I myself can see that friendship that Jason M. refers to consistently.Thanks, LC, for posting this. My take on Jason Momoa's comments at the NJ con runs along similar lines. So thanks again.

I agree, too, that all character play in Echoes was done well. Hoping to see more episodes paced like Echoes-- action, science, team interaction --in the future.

pisces27
December 2nd, 2006, 05:52 PM
BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG fat reset button to beat em all - have to admit to a little bit of disappointment that everything is magically back to normal at Atlantis with no sign of the Earth expedition ever even being gone and no repercussions of the rescue - not even a mention of Sheppard being even told off!


I was so disappointed that they completely ignored this fact. Not even one snarky comment. I should have expected it.

I enjoyed the interaction between Teyla and Ronon.

YAY for the black t-shirt and Sheps arms.

Overall, I wasn't really thrilled with this ep. Maybe after watching it again it will be better.

Trialia
December 2nd, 2006, 05:54 PM
I was so disappointed that they completely ignored this fact. Not even one snarky comment. I should have expected it.
But they didn't ignore it completely. They did make reference to the Ancient crew of the Tria having been murdered.

Alipeeps
December 3rd, 2006, 04:05 AM
But they didn't ignore it completely. They did make reference to the Ancient crew of the Tria having been murdered.

Yeah, I know they threw in a couple of comments to explain what had happened to the Ancients and the ZPMs etc but they completely ignored any repercussions from Sheppard and team's actions and never even mentioned it. I guess we can assume that O'Neill or Landry or someone had to have at least had a chat with Sheppard but it was never even mentioned or referred to. He disobeyed a direct order and last we heard from Landry on the subject he was threatening to... well, we don't know what exactly but it had to do with Sheppard's carreer in the military and making sure it was... whatever (the implication being, over!) You can't just forget all that - there had to have at least been a conversation saying, "Well, you shouldn't have done that but seeing as it all turned out alright, we'll let you off" and there is no reference to that. Just a bit of a shame.

They made quite a point about Sheppard having disobeyed a direct order in The Return Part I - and mentioned it again in Part II - and then just forgot all about it in the next episode, as though it never happened.

Luz
December 3rd, 2006, 06:52 AM
In regards to Ronon/Teyla ... they're not my OTP or anything, but I like them together because the actors have great chemistry, and they definitely do not register as siblings to me.


To me either, they're hot like WHOA!, zizzling like a thing that zizzles. :D


I guess we can assume that O'Neill or Landry or someone had to have at least had a chat with Sheppard but it was never even mentioned or referred to.

Usually I prefer to have things like this shown to me, or at least being told what happened, if it's not shown on-screen it didn't happen. But here I'm happy to just assume that they had that conversation with Landry and O'neill, and everything was fixed, if only to not have to stand another second of those two characters.
I was wondering why I grabbed onto Echoes with such happiness in my heart, now I see, Echoes actually felt like an SGA episode, unlike the Return pt. 2.
I'd never liked the reset button that much, but sometimes it can be useful.

Alipeeps
December 3rd, 2006, 07:22 AM
Usually I prefer to have things like this shown to me, or at least being told what happened, if it's not shown on-screen it didn't happen. But here I'm happy to just assume that they had that conversation with Landry and O'neill, and everything was fixed, if only to not have to stand another second of those two characters.
I was wondering why I grabbed onto Echoes with such happiness in my heart, now I see, Echoes actually felt like an SGA episode, unlike the Return pt. 2.
I'd never liked the reset button that much, but sometimes it can be useful.

Yeah I would have just liked to have known what happened there - in terms of Sheppard's character development etc, this was a major plot point, that he again chose to disoebly a direct order in favour of doing the right thing.. and yet the repercussions of that action are just completed glossed over and never even mentioned.

Luz
December 3rd, 2006, 07:33 AM
Yeah I would have just liked to have known what happened there - in terms of Sheppard's character development etc, this was a major plot point, that he again chose to disoebly a direct order in favour of doing the right thing.. and yet the repercussions of that action are just completed glossed over and never even mentioned.

Yes, it was important to see ramifications, but what could have they written?, if they had started in on that it would probably have ended up being another crossover, something like Intruder. And let's face it 'they' are lazy, sometimes it's all or nothing, and this time reset button it was.

I can't say I'm too worked up about it, but yeah, I understand why people are asking about the absence of a resolution.

talyn2k1
December 3rd, 2006, 08:24 AM
Immediate thoughts as I watch the ep:


BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG fat reset button to beat em all - have to admit to a little bit of disappointment that everything is magically back to normal at Atlantis with no sign of the Earth expedition ever even being gone and no repercussions of the rescue - not even a mention of Sheppard being even told off!




I don`t recall hearing anyone complaining in SG-1 S1 when they went against orders to save Earth. There were no repercussions there until much further down the line when Kinsey and the NID reared their ugly heads. A similar thing could still happen.

And I`m sure there are plenty of people baying for their blood but they`ve got General O`Neill protecting them, a man who has disobeyed orders more than once when he believed it to be the right thing to do.

It could be that there are repercussions happening back on Earth, but O`Neill is keeping them away from Atlantis and is defending them from the repercussions of their actions.

Back to Echoes...

Only thing I didn`t like was the pointless presence of Heightmeyer who just comes across as plain and boring to me and the visions at the beginning of the episode were stretched out a little longer than was necessary I think.

Good parts - McKay and Sheppard in the infirmary "Zelenka is smarter than you!"
- Great action aboard the Daedalus
- Ronon and Teyla were a part of the episode instead of being background characters. About bloody time!
- Carson as always
- McKay's concern for himself
- Basically I just liked everything bar the two bad points above.

9/10

spirited Chihiro
December 4th, 2006, 03:20 AM
I really enjoyed the episode!! good to see Ronon and Teyla having major parts as should be expected
But i particularly enjoyed
- The interaction between Teyla and Weir
- Teyla's costumes were awesome...i want those pair of pj's!!
- The angst was at an all time high
- Mckay was hilarious with 'sam' the whale!!

leelakin
December 5th, 2006, 05:02 PM
I'm not even gonna try and pretend that I'm literate enough in the English language to write a full-blown commentary/criticism, so I'll just go with a list.

Aspects of "Echoes" that I loved / thought were interesting:
-Zelenka and Ronon banter? Awesooome! Those two have some great snark potential.
-The Teyla/Ronon interaction in this episode was GREAT. =D They have heaps of chemistry! (yes, I mean rather romantically *lol*) The sparring scene, Ronon taking meditation lessons, him caring for her in the infirmary... so sweet. I also liked that they had more to do in this episode than just standing around in the background or fighting. =)
-Whoa, the burned man sure creeped me out when they showed him for the first time. It's not that I couldn't bear images like this, but I wasn't expecting to see such a thing on SGA! Well done, though.
-Elizabeth's inbox gets spammed by Rodney. =D Haha, yay. Her hair is VERY pretty, by the way. I like it long!
-Rodney and his baby whale, how sweet, really. It's cute to see him so enthusiastic about the whales. And am I the only one who wants to see the "Lobster-like crustacian" really badly now? *lol*
-CARSON! He's wonderful, so caring and gentle with everyone. Have I mentioned lately that I LOVE his accent? Because I do. (:
-John/Elizabeth/Rodney whalebabble. And her calling them "boys". =D
-there's a SPACE VASE in Heightmeyer's office. Seriously.
-Has anyone ever counted how many different red shirts Elizabeth owns? Can we have a fansite about this, please? *lol*
-Oh, and then there's the angst. Gotta love angsty episodes!
-Rodney and John temporarily being half deaf, causing everyone to shout during conversation - so funny. "WHAT?" *lol* Also, John's hair comment and "Zelenka is smarter than you are!" ...priceless.
-JOHN/ELIZABETH = SQUEEE! Loved her concerned "John!" shout over the radio and more importantly, him carrying her to the infirmary. =D Awwwwww!
-Lots and lots of Carson. =D YAY!
-It's kind of endearing that the whales imitated the Ancients' language. Even though it caused everyone to angst and stuff. *cough*
-They're not toast after all! =D
-The ending was perfect with Elizabeth's "No, thank YOU!", another sweet Teyla/Ronon scene and John and Rodney watching the whales. =)

I loved how all of the characters got a lot of screentime =D Carson, Zelenka,... I kinda missed Chuck Campbell, but you can't have everything, I guess. (; Though I wish they would've showed them... moving in again or something of that sort.
All in all, I really liked it! =D

Trialia
December 6th, 2006, 01:08 AM
Hee. Nice review, Leelakin! And there IS a fansite about how many shirts and such 'Lizabeth wears! - http://www.lizziewear.ca :D

leelakin
December 6th, 2006, 12:56 PM
Hee. Nice review, Leelakin! And there IS a fansite about how many shirts and such 'Lizabeth wears! - http://www.lizziewear.ca :D

Oh my gawd! Awesome! XDDD Thanks!

vaberella
December 10th, 2006, 11:46 AM
Hmm...Echoes, I really liked the ep. Except I did have a problem. Nothing really serious, okay so it's a bit annoying to me. I don't know how many of you used to watch Angel, but I had to stop watching because I would get annoyed. Okay, to better understand it's like sitting at the edge of your seat waiting for a climactic end but then you're like...'That's it!' when it's over. Let me tell you, I couldn't watch a show like that, I would get really into and watch how it would build up and build up...and then you end up with nothing. Nada, zip, zero. Capute! Very poor ending and I really wanted to know how many other planets were killed by John's oh so brilliant idea and how easy was it that the Daedy came in time for that rescue. Oh sigh. Maybe I do want them to go to a new atlantis and maybe rebuild and go through some drama again like S1, it's like too easy with this new space rail, and the daedy. Oh well on to the review of the characters.

:weir: Unfortunately she stated much of the obvious in the show, and that's all I got. Sorry to say, she really didn't add anything or give anything just what's been said before. Thank you, Weir. This is not a bash, unlike what other people may assume, but I was hoping for some more, I never understood how she was one of the last ones to faint or get a nose bleed, I was just hoping for something dynamic like Teyla got. Where she would stick it out and help even though she's near death. Oh sigh.

:teyla: Well she came out on top in this. Did a Xena move on Ronon--wicked. I loved her interaction with Ronon. And yes, much of it is the same with me and my cousins or uncles. Very familial and just wicked that the writers gave us a snippet into let's say off screen moments in the storyline between the characters paticularly John/Teyla/Ronon--as when John said to Ronon that he should take Teyla on, on her offer of meditation. I was impressed. Teyla was a strong female character as is her norm. At first I was hoping this was leading into her family since she was the first one affected. Which I found interesting. It's a bit disappointing that they didn't go indepth into why Teyla was first affected by the Whales sound and the visions. I'm hoping in another ep they probably expand on that. As they did with Phantoms as sort of extention of the Pilot. Let's go back to Tey/Ro, now I have always liked them as family and I have to say that ep solidified it for me. Really, it just set it in motion. I really hope maybe my idea that they're related comes out. Teyla's reader script had a brother, maybe they could make that canon.

:ronan: See now these are the eps of Ro that I love. The complex one, the ones where he goes from being the brawn to having feelings and sensitivity and a bit of comedy relief. Great ep for Ronon and for Teyla. Now I can't wait on more Ronon/John as I was expecting in Phantoms(but was let down), I hope to see definitely a development in Sunday. I can't wait for the Ronon/John shippers to on a squee fest as the Ronon/Teyla fans did for this one. Since I've heard in various spoilers it will be a similar interaction between those two...boy on boy love. :D

:sheppard: Good characterization, didn't get the funnies that were apparently running amok between him and McKay, although I liked they're interaction. I only saw one scene, where they find that Atlantis room, as hilarious. Other than that over my head. John was the same, I thought he should have definitely got out of the water before McKay passed out. But I liked it. But it wasn't really a John centered ep, definitely about Ronon/Teyla and the Whales. Can anyone explain to me why the bloody hell Meredith is funny? I think it's a cool name for a guy!

As for John's brilliant idea, probably the only one who didn't see brilliance. But you have to do what you have to do, my life or risk other planets, I guess my life wins out too. :D

:mckay: My fave character. Not much to do in the ep really, except I guess make a few funnies although I liked his loud voice. John afterall did save the day. He was good with the ZPM. As for the naming the whale Sam, I wasn't impressed, it's not endearing his Sam Carter obsession.

:beckett: You know he's starting to remind more and more of a woman. Not to marginalize women, but his level of empathy is like out of control. Rigth after the two ladies he was next, and then Ronon didn't come till later. Hmm...Anyway I liked him in this ep.

Whales: Still look like plesiosaurs to me, maybe it's too hard awful to say dinosaurs, since plesios are pretty much the ancestor of the whale, but you know it would have been cool to see McKay mention that...anyway they were cool. That eye moment was nerve wracking, I have problems with underwater scenes, a nasty quirk of mine is to hold my breath even though it's on tv---I never notice until I run out of air of course...:)


8 out of 10

Luz
December 10th, 2006, 12:09 PM
-The Teyla/Ronon interaction in this episode was GREAT. =D They have heaps of chemistry! (yes, I mean rather romantically *lol*) The sparring scene, Ronon taking meditation lessons, him caring for her in the infirmary... so sweet. I also liked that they had more to do in this episode than just standing around in the background or fighting. =)

I'll never get tired of saying this, Teyla and Ronon are one hot pairing. :D

Ruined_puzzle
December 10th, 2006, 12:40 PM
Teyla/Ronon=hotness. They just have this chemistry that isn't forced.

Luz
December 10th, 2006, 01:57 PM
Teyla/Ronon=hotness. They just have this chemistry that isn't forced.

*omg* yes!, I've been bitting my tongue out of respect for all those fans that are not shippers, but I was watching again today, and Gosh!, this episode was the shippiest Ronon/Teyla and Sheppard/Weir episode we've had in quite a while.
Well, more like since TRW for S/W. :P

Back to my restrained self now.

xfkirsten
December 10th, 2006, 07:26 PM
Whales: Still look like plesiosaurs to me, maybe it's too hard awful to say dinosaurs, since plesios are pretty much the ancestor of the whale, but you know it would have been cool to see McKay mention that...anyway they were cool.

Actually, plesiosaurs are not the ancestors of whales as far as we know right now. Plesiosaurs went extinct around the end of the Cretaceous period, and at that time, the ancestors of whales (carnivorous ungulates, rather like wolves with hooves) were still on land. It was sometime after the K-T Boundary that the ancestors of whales moved back into the water, possibly even due in part to the fact that marine reptiles like plesiosaurs had disappeared and left a niche wide open.

What you're seeing is something more along the lines of convergent evolution - separate lineages hitting upon similar evolutionary developments independently of one another.

LadyBozi
December 10th, 2006, 09:27 PM
Teyla/Ronon=hotness. They just have this chemistry that isn't forced.

Amen sistah. :teyla: :ronan: Pure chemistry. I really hope we see them together more often. *hehe* But I don't think I will ever be able to see the brother/sister angle--no matter how much the writers wanna push it.

the old briar pipe
December 10th, 2006, 09:32 PM
So I've seen this brought up a couple times on this thread, and one person tried to answer using Google or some such, but...

[And please keep in mind that I *loved* this ep, agree with all the happy comments about character interaction, whales, etc., and also that I understand the constraints of drama sometimes come before realism.]

...burst eardrums do not act like that. First, there shouldn't be that much blood unless there was blood in the ear canal. If so, where did it come from? The inner ear? Very bad. The brain? Very, very bad. See someone's earlier comments re: beached whales and sonar.

Second, while it does take a couple weeks to heal a perforation (2-4 in my experience, depending on the size of the hole), the deafness level is usually not that bad unless there is some other kind of damage or fluid (see "blood" above). But the shouting was funny. ;)

(I think people get confused because if the damage is caused by something like a shockwave, there may be additional inner ear damage? I don't know, I've never had that problem.)

And if there was a lot of fluid in the middle ear, those people should be swaying on their feet. That's what really gets you - the dizziness. But not from the hole itself.

It was really freaky to see McKay go down like that, though. And Teyla and Elizabeth, of course.

Edit: Ahaha. Now I see this post-


I had a perforated eardrum (like ten years ago), due to a trauma, I don't know how the cases vary, but it took me a couple months to heal, I didn't even had to take pain medication because it was only a dull ache. It healed on its own, no need for surgery or anything like that, I suffered from diminished hearing on that side (the left one), and had to wear plugs in the shower.
But as I have understood, it can be worse, depends on the damage.

-so oh well. :) Luz's comment is probably more accurate to a first-time injury (as for the SGA personel), rather than my scarred history.

the old briar pipe
December 10th, 2006, 09:53 PM
Amen sistah. :teyla: :ronan: Pure chemistry. I really hope we see them together more often. *hehe* But I don't think I will ever be able to see the brother/sister angle--no matter how much the writers wanna push it.

Yay! I didn't ship this pairing last season, but I may be seduced to the dark side by their totally awesome chemistry.

And I don't really care what the writers "intend". It's what ends up on screen that counts. (Not that tptb will ever let this ship or any other - let alone slash - ever be canon. It's not their style.)

obsessed1
December 11th, 2006, 09:45 AM
So I've seen this brought up a couple times on this thread, and one person tried to answer using Google or some such, but...

[And please keep in mind that I *loved* this ep, agree with all the happy comments about character interaction, whales, etc., and also that I understand the constraints of drama sometimes come before realism.]

...burst eardrums do not act like that. First, there shouldn't be that much blood unless there was blood in the ear canal. If so, where did it come from? The inner ear? Very bad. The brain? Very, very bad. See someone's earlier comments re: beached whales and sonar.

Second, while it does take a couple weeks to heal a perforation (2-4 in my experience, depending on the size of the hole), the deafness level is usually not that bad unless there is some other kind of damage or fluid (see "blood" above). But the shouting was funny. ;)

(I think people get confused because if the damage is caused by something like a shockwave, there may be additional inner ear damage? I don't know, I've never had that problem.)

And if there was a lot of fluid in the middle ear, those people should be swaying on their feet. That's what really gets you - the dizziness. But not from the hole itself.

It was really freaky to see McKay go down like that, though. And Teyla and Elizabeth, of course.

Edit: Ahaha. Now I see this post-



-so oh well. :) Luz's comment is probably more accurate to a first-time injury (as for the SGA personel), rather than my scarred history.
it would have been nice to see Shep and Mckay dizzy and wobbling about just to show that they were still healing, and to remind us, the audience that they were effected still by their perforated eardrums and not miraculously healed as they would have us believe :D

Luz
December 11th, 2006, 10:55 AM
it would have been nice to see Shep and Mckay dizzy and wobbling about just to show that they were still healing, and to remind us, the audience that they were effected still by their perforated eardrums and not miraculously healed as they would have us believe :D

Definitely, granted my injury was due to a blunt trauma (instead of piercing sound), but it took me months to heal, and I didn't even bleed, with blood it looks even worse.
They should have at least been shown wobbling yeah, I remember I had to walk supporting myself against walls for a few weeks, because there were times when the world wouldn't stop moving. *lol*
But then again, different injury, so who knows, maybe it's less severe when it's caused by a sound than when it's caused by a blow.

the old briar pipe
December 11th, 2006, 07:49 PM
it would have been nice to see Shep and Mckay dizzy and wobbling about just to show that they were still healing, and to remind us, the audience that they were effected still by their perforated eardrums and not miraculously healed as they would have us believe :D

Oh, that would have been priceless. But the reset button apparently works mid-ep now, as well as between eps.

Oh, well. They tried, and it was a fun ep.

the old briar pipe
December 11th, 2006, 07:53 PM
Definitely, granted my injury was due to a blunt trauma (instead of piercing sound), but it took me months to heal, and I didn't even bleed, with blood it looks even worse.
They should have at least been shown wobbling yeah, I remember I had to walk supporting myself against walls for a few weeks, because there were times when the world wouldn't stop moving. *lol*
But then again, different injury, so who knows, maybe it's less severe when it's caused by a sound than when it's caused by a blow.

Ok, so you didn't get blood either? I thought it was just my scar tissue. So I'm thinking they should have gone for the Hot Zone look, instead. Hard to mimic on-screen that peculiar whistling sound....

But yes, the vertigo. *shudders*

I heard of a guy who had his drums burst due to being too close to a plane when it broke the sound barrier, but that could have been apocryphal. Blood was mentioned.

Omg, now I've squicked myself. *lol*

maxbo
December 13th, 2006, 08:31 AM
The opening scene with Radek, Ronon and Sheppard set the tone of this episode for me. Echoes was full of the kind of character interaction that will probably generate fanfic.

I loved the following:

The unexpected character mix of the opening scene. Loved seeing how adorably geeky Radek was in updating Sheppard about his project and laughed out loud at brooding, sulky Ronon (who was also rather adorable during his little hissy fit).

Rodney trying to convince Elizabeth to keep all 3 ZPMs for Atlantis and Elizabeth having none of it.

Seeing Teyla with a larger than usual role. The expression on her face when she realized that Ronon fell asleep during meditation was priceless. And, her retaliating by kicking his butt in training was hilarious.

All the Ronon/Teyla scenes. Loved seeing their friendship again. This was a wonderful turnabout from Teyla watching out for him in Trinity and taking him under her wing in Duet.

All the Rodney/Sheppard scenes. Throughout the episode their snarky friendship was in full force. Loved Sheppard's testing Rodney's hearing by ragging on all things Canadian.

It was good to see Heightmeyer again - new hair and all.

Carson's soothing, caring, determined presence throughout. Every time I see Carson, since the casting change confirmation, is bittersweet because PM's mastered the art of putting so much into even the smallest Carson scenes that it will be hard to imagine SGA without this character full-time.

Elizabeth calling Sheppard and Rodney "boys". They are like two big kids, especially when they are together. And the last scene with *deaf* Elizabeth was hilarious.

Caldwell's pragmatism. Love how he says what needs to be said, whether it's popular or not. No matter how cute they were, the whales were a threat and he didn't shy away from dealing with that threat by whatever means necessary.

Rodney's smile because he believed his "friend" Sam had stayed behind to say goodbye.

Overall, a very good episode that showed me what the writers could do if they made an effort. Not only was it a joy to see so much character interaction, but it was an episode about Atlantis that included some of the creatures of Atlantis.

obsessed1
December 15th, 2006, 05:07 AM
The opening scene with Radek, Ronon and Sheppard set the tone of this episode for me. Echoes was full of the kind of character interaction that will probably generate fanfic.

I loved the following:

The unexpected character mix of the opening scene. Loved seeing how adorably geeky Radek was in updating Sheppard about his project and laughed out loud at brooding, sulky Ronon (who was also rather adorable during his little hissy fit).

Rodney trying to convince Elizabeth to keep all 3 ZPMs for Atlantis and Elizabeth having none of it.

Seeing Teyla with a larger than usual role. The expression on her face when she realized that Ronon fell asleep during meditation was priceless. And, her retaliating by kicking his butt in training was hilarious.

All the Ronon/Teyla scenes. Loved seeing their friendship again. This was a wonderful turnabout from Teyla watching out for him in Trinity and taking him under her wing in Duet.

All the Rodney/Sheppard scenes. Throughout the episode their snarky friendship was in full force. Loved Sheppard's testing Rodney's hearing by ragging on all things Canadian.

It was good to see Heightmeyer again - new hair and all.

Carson's soothing, caring, determined presence throughout. Every time I see Carson, since the casting change confirmation, is bittersweet because PM's mastered the art of putting so much into even the smallest Carson scenes that it will be hard to imagine SGA without this character full-time.

Elizabeth calling Sheppard and Rodney "boys". They are like two big kids, especially when they are together. And the last scene with *deaf* Elizabeth was hilarious.

Caldwell's pragmatism. Love how he says what needs to be said, whether it's popular or not. No matter how cute they were, the whales were a threat and he didn't shy away from dealing with that threat by whatever means necessary.

Rodney's smile because he believed his "friend" Sam had stayed behind to say goodbye.

Overall, a very good episode that showed me what the writers could do if they made an effort. Not only was it a joy to see so much character interaction, but it was an episode about Atlantis that included some of the creatures of Atlantis.
ITA.

Heightmeyes hair looked odd though, didnt it? :D

I loved this ep. As you say, the unexpectedness (That word sounds made up :D) of it all just made it a joy to watch.

memnarch
December 21st, 2006, 02:21 PM
I was wonderfully surprised by this episode. There were a lot of unexpected twists and the problem they faced was unlike anything they've done on SG1, which really emphasizes the differences between the shows. The Teyla/Ronon stuff was much appreciated, as they're two very underserviced characters. I agree with a lot of people who've commented already that there were some excellent character moments in this episode. I loved Zelenka's whole vest/camping gear thing at the beginning of the episode. Hilarious! Also, the visual effect for the solar prominance hitting the shield was incredible.

Overall *** stars

Falcon Horus
December 26th, 2006, 11:40 AM
I watched Echoes again last night and I don't know if I've mentioned it before but I really like the music in this ep.

Of course, my personal highlight in this episode still is seeing Kate Heightmeyer again.